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Hello and welcome to Opening the
Gates to more listings for 

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Estate agents with me, Simon 
Gates. 

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And I'm delighted to be joined 
today by Mr. Stewart there. 

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Stuart thank you very much for 
joining me. 

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Thanks for having me on Simon. 
You're very welcome. 

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So we first met couple of months
ago now. 

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Yes, we we, we met at a venue 
called Swingers, didn't we? 

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And and I feel unless we explain
what Swingers is, it could 

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mislead. 
Let's just leave it there. 

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Let's just leave it there. 
No, no, no. 

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We need to explain what Swingers
is now Simon. 

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So yeah, but Stuart and I are a 
couple of swingers. 

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I actually I actually won the 
swingers event as well. 

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I'm still bitter about that. 
I'm close second and I'm 

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convinced that you've had me on 
because it gives you an excuse 

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to talk about your victory. 
What, what, what can I say? 

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So for those of you thinking, 
what on earth are they talking 

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about? 
It was a crazy golf networking 

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event that we're both at in 
London, which is brilliant. 

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I I've really enjoyed the, I'd 
say modern version of networking

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in recent years since I started 
my business. 

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So I think when people hear the 
word networking, they assume 

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like BNI and it's 6:00 in the 
morning doing a breakfast 

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meeting and standing up in front
of a room full of people and 

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saying, hi, my name is Simon. 
This is what I do. 

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If you know anyone who needs 
help, let me know. 

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It's nice to play, you know, a 
bit of crazy golf probably set 

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the course record at swingers. 
I don't know have have a few 

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pints and meet new people 
because we obviously are in the 

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same, I don't know, 4 ball. 
I got chatting and realised 

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we're not 1,000,000 miles away 
from each other either. 

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I, I was surprised that we never
crossed paths. 

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I mean, you know, I'm in 
Bedford, you're in, you're in 

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Newport Pagnell. 
So yeah, we're only just, only 

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just down the road from each 
other. 

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My my first job was at actually 
in Newport Pagnell after leaving

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school. 
Did you tell me that? 

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Well, because of the nature of 
networking events nowadays, I 

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think we'd had a couple of 
drinks. 

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I can't quite remember what I 
told you. 

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I had AI had a few drinks 
afterwards as well and I was 

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recording some video content the
next day and yeah, let's just, I

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was a little bit dehydrated. 
I have to ask you very quickly, 

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what was that first job in 
Newport Packer? 

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It was selling advertising in a 
magazine. 

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So this, I suppose this is where
I've got a lot of my resilience 

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because the, the, the model was,
you'd ring up a company, say if 

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you want to write an article 
about, yeah, we want to invite 

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your suppliers to support the 
article. 

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And then you would ring the 
suppliers and say, I'm writing 

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an article about Simon Gates 
PLC. 

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You're a key supplier and we'd 
like you to advertise. 

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The, the larger your advert, the
more editorial Simon gets. 

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So I'm going back to him this 
afternoon. 

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Would you like to spend £2000 on
a half page or 4000 lbs on a 

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full page? 
So it was proper phoning through

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telephone directories getting 
told to bugger off 50 times a 

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day. 
Just proper boiler room sales. 

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How many years ago was that? 
That would have been in the late

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90s, so sort of 199798 phoning 
through the chunky Yellow Pages,

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phoning through business 
directories, trying to trying to

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get past receptionists, trying 
to speak to decision makers. 

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I'm just, I mean, I'm astounded,
but now I'm also not, I don't 

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think people realise just like 
how expensive print was back in 

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the day, like those numbers that
we, this is a, a completely, 

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this could be a podcast in 
itself. 

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But when people talk about like 
the cost of advertising on Right

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Move these days and yes, you 
know, they charge a significant 

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amount of money. 
But then you go, if you look at 

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how much used to put in the 
newspaper and how much that 

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costs and then you work out 
inflation, you go actually if 

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the amount of Leeds Right Move 
returns, I think a lot of agents

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where they'd like to admit it 
publicly are quite happy with 

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the ROI they get from Right Move
and then how much used to spend 

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in the newspapers for not really
that many enquiries. 

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Yeah, I mean even back 20 years 
ago the the local newspapers 

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were charging you, you'd pay 
every week and you could be 

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paying 3, four, £500 a week. 
So index linked that with 

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inflation that you know nowadays
you'd be paying probably best 

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part of three 3 1/2 grand just 
to get a decent advert in your 

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in your local Reg and. 
Then by the time like you've 

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you've, you've signed off the 
paper. 

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I'm just thinking about to 
Milton Keynes Citizen. 

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When I used to have to sign off 
the advert, it was like on a 

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Monday to go out on the 
Thursday. 

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And then you go and sell one of 
those properties on a Tuesday. 

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It's in the in the newspaper and
it's like, well, that was a 

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base. 
It's already sold. 

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But you can't, you can't, you 
can't control that. 

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So how how do you go from that 
into the mortgage world? 

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I had a good friend of mine that
was a mortgage broker for 

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Connell's group and I'd always 
been good with figures. 

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I didn't particularly excel at 
school. 

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I I think the pinnacle was when 
I was 9, I came first in the in 

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the whole year in this maths 
exam and my parents were brought

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in set and told oh, Stuart's a 
genius, start looking for a 

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university. 
And then it just went like that 

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because I wasn't motivated at 
school, loved sport, messed 

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around and it transpired by the 
time that I'd done GCS ES, my 

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form tutor actually said to my 
mother, Miss is there it would 

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be a waste of taxpayers money to
allow your son to do a levels. 

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So got the first job in sales, 
you know, always out of head for

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figures, you know, spoke to a 
friend about it and, and, you 

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know, got, got in, got in 
contact with Connells. 

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And, you know, 25 years later, 
I'm, I'm still there and had 

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risen through the ranks. 
But I think the day I walked 

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into that branch, I just fell in
love with the job and fell in 

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love with the industry. 
And then say 1/4 of a century, 

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Yep, you, you spend in, in one 
of the biggest businesses in 

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this industry in the country. 
Yep. 

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And then you have, I don't know,
because I don't know if, if 

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we've discussed this, you have 
your Jerry Maguire moment and 

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then you go and go and do your 
own thing. 

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So if I can ask what like what, 
what was the epiphany, the 

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catalyst to going right, That's 
it. 

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I'm going to go do something 
else because it you would have 

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been pretty comfortable, I 
guess, right? 

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Doing what you're doing to an 
extent. 

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Yes, I guess when when I first 
joined Connells it was just the 

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160 branch network, quite a 
sequence group. 

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So it felt like a family 
business. 

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And you know, I was surrounded 
by great people. 

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And I think over the years you 
know, the business has gradually

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changed. 
I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm 

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hugely fortunate to have been 
surrounded by some great people 

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and the foresight of the likes 
of Stephen Shipley, David 

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Livesey to make some of the 
smart acquisitions. 

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What they did with Right Move 
gave me loads and loads of 

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opportunities. 
But I think, you know, the 

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business changed over the years.
You know, it became very 

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massive, very corporate, almost 
a bit retail like. 

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And I think you get to a point 
in your life where you've 

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probably got a little bit more 
financial freedom and you can 

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probably take that risk. 
And I just saw a huge gap in the

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market. 
I've known Adam a long time. 

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I was involved with him when 
Connell was bought hatch and 

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even vaguely from his country 
property days in kitchen. 

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And I think you know, what he's 
done and what Exp has done, you 

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know, it's phenomenal. 
You know, I don't think I think 

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there'll always be a place for 
corporate High Street estate 

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agency, but you know, without 
question the self-employed 

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model, you know, the, the 
trajectory of growth is, is 

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hugely impressive. 
And I think we're probably going

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to get to a point of seeing 
2530% of the industry, you know,

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on that self-employed model. 
So I saw the opportunity within 

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Exp and, and a couple of other 
things. 

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What I also saw was the value of
mortgage businesses nowadays. 

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And I think the tip for any 
estate agents listening is don't

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undervalue your data. 
The the data you're sitting on 

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is hugely, hugely valuable. 
Obviously it's only valuable if 

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you do the right thing with it. 
But you know, Simon, if you're 

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an estate agent in Newport Pagne
and I'm a mortgage broker in 

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Newport Pagne or somebody buys a
house through you, you don't 

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know whether they're going to 
move in two years, 10 years, 25 

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years. 
If I arrange a mortgage that you

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introduced to me, there's a 
guaranteed time in two or five 

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years when that customer will 
will remortgage and then I'll 

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process again in another two to 
five years. 

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So I'm going to be earning from 
that customer 9 or 10 times and 

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I only pay you once, which 
doesn't seem fair. 

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Is that is that the standard 
procedure there in the in kind 

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of the mortgage world is for you
pay, pay once and then that's 

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it? 
Unless you own that mortgage 

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business. 
Yeah, yeah. 

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Business is part of yours that 
that seems to be the status quo,

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OK. 
And of course, you know, the 

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value of data nowadays that's 
made the value of mortgage 

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businesses skyrocket. 
So I saw, you know, just modest 

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910 broker businesses selling 
for four or £5,000,000. 

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I think it's so much easier to 
sell a mortgage business because

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of the value of data in today's 
world than it is to sell an 

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estate agency business. 
So I, I just thought there's an 

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opportunity here to do something
with Exp that benefits Exp 

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agents in the long term with 
lifetime Commission and equity 

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in the company. 
And I suppose the other, the 

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other big opportunity I saw was 
traditionally if you're a 

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mortgage broker in our industry,
if you want a national estate 

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agency lead source, you're 
normally ready to a PAYE 

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contract. 
You need to be in the office 

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Monday to Saturday at these 
hours and you don't really have 

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any autonomy. 
You've, you seem to have to go 

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to the other extreme if you want
to be self-employed. 

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Where great, you can go 
self-employed. 

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But the big question and the 
point of anxiety is where, where

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am I going to get my customers 
from? 

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And you don't have that lead 
source. 

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So I think it provided an 
opportunity to grow a model 

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where we can attract 
self-employed brokers who want 

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to benefit from a lead source 
but also want independence. 

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And I'm not ashamed to say, you 
know, I probably stole quite a 

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lot of good ideas from Nexpad I 
think what they do really well 

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is they allow people to operate 
under their own personal brands.

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So just like Nexpad it's Stuart 
there powered by Nexpad insist 

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on our guys having two years 
experience. 

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00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:05,520
And I think social media, I, I 
know you're probably going to 

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say estate agents don't use it 
enough. 

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If it's, you know, if estate 
agents don't use it enough, 

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look, look at mortgage brokers. 
There's very little content out 

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there. 
And I think there's a, a huge 

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opportunity for, for mortgage 
brokers to align with agents, 

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Exp agents and, and promote 
themselves in their own way. 

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And, and of course, the 
advocates and ambassadors for 

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each other's business. 
So we've already, we've already 

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got some success stories 
actually, where our local 

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brokers have referred valuation 
business to Exp agents. 

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And of course, you know, it's, 
it's great helping you with your

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mortgage enquiries and help 
helping you win some mortgage 

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sign up Commission. 
But actually if I helped you win

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00:11:47,920 --> 00:11:50,880
an instruction, you, you, you 
love me and you're wedded to me.

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00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:55,000
So, yeah, that, that I suppose 
that's the background and that's

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I thought it's such a huge 
opportunity and and something 

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that I don't think has, well, 
I've certainly not seen it done 

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in the industry. 
Cool, right? 

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00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:07,560
There's a few things I want to 
try and remember on what you 

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00:12:07,560 --> 00:12:10,160
said and go back over. 
So one of the things you said 

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00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:15,960
there about the success that 
Adam and Exp has had, I mean, 

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you'd be a fool not to not to 
spend time looking at their 

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00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:24,120
meteoric rise and go, okay, can 
we R&D RIP off and duplicate 

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00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:26,840
some of this success? 
Right, No ideas out there 

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original. 
It's it's the ones who execute 

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00:12:30,120 --> 00:12:31,440
something and do it their own 
way. 

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00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:34,960
But I think have success like 
when I when I started, I was 

223
00:12:34,960 --> 00:12:38,440
like, well, let's go and you 
know, see what other people have

224
00:12:38,440 --> 00:12:42,720
done inside outside of industry.
I read a lot, I listen to a lot 

225
00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:46,360
of podcasts, I watch webinars. 
I go to events latest there I'm 

226
00:12:46,360 --> 00:12:49,560
in London for an event tomorrow.
I'm in London for an event. 

227
00:12:49,560 --> 00:12:54,200
I like never stop learning. 
But you've then got to actually 

228
00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:57,840
execute and implement the stuff.
Well, in terms of what you're 

229
00:12:57,840 --> 00:13:03,560
saying on you knowing if 
someone's in a two year or a 

230
00:13:03,560 --> 00:13:06,320
five year fixed rate, well, you 
know, six months before the end 

231
00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:09,280
of that, right, it's going to 
ping up on my CRM or whatever, 

232
00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:10,720
right. 
And now I'm going to contact 

233
00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:12,920
Simon. 
Hey, Simon, six months until we 

234
00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:14,920
rates up. 
Let's sit down, have a coffee, 

235
00:13:14,920 --> 00:13:16,640
go over your options, da, da, 
da, whatever. 

236
00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:20,720
Yeah, in estate agency, to your 
point, what typically happens is

237
00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:23,240
I hand over the keys, 
congratulations to you on buying

238
00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:26,440
your home, and then I just 
archive it because I do not have

239
00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:30,520
a Scooby when you're going to be
moving home in the near future. 

240
00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:33,480
Now, I've been to a couple of 
Mortgage Advice Bureau 

241
00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:38,680
conferences over the years, and 
I was astounded when I think 

242
00:13:38,680 --> 00:13:43,600
Peter Brodnicki had sat on stage
and shared data on the 

243
00:13:43,680 --> 00:13:50,400
percentage of mortgage holders 
who would return to them. 

244
00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:53,240
Yes. 
Right after two years and I 

245
00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:55,640
can't remember the numbers, it 
was definitely more than half, 

246
00:13:55,840 --> 00:13:59,520
but it's like majority of people
after two years are returning to

247
00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:01,560
us and redoing their mortgage 
for us. 

248
00:14:01,560 --> 00:14:06,920
And I'm sat there going in 
estate agency, 15% of buyers 

249
00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:09,040
sell through the estate agent 
and they buy through. 

250
00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:11,120
Yep, yeah. 
And. 

251
00:14:12,120 --> 00:14:16,480
It's probably what on average 9 
or 10 years, so it could be 

252
00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:20,640
quite, quite a long time before.
But it's like there's, there's 

253
00:14:20,640 --> 00:14:23,520
so much data out there on this, 
but a really good, good one from

254
00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:26,720
Zoop have looked at this data is
there's like this sweet spot 

255
00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:31,560
between three and seven years 
where about 1/3 of sales happen.

256
00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:34,320
So you're like, OK, if I know 
that there's a sweet spot of 

257
00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:36,600
people in their home three to 
seven years, maybe I should be 

258
00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:39,480
standing in contact with them 
because like, for example, I 

259
00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:43,560
bought my first house in 2016, a
2 up to down first time buyer. 

260
00:14:44,440 --> 00:14:49,840
If you look at the typical 
ladder of someone who buys their

261
00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:52,080
first property, they're probably
going to be in it for a few 

262
00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:55,720
years, then they go to the three
bed, then they go to the four 

263
00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:57,640
bed. 
So it's maybe a fair bit of 

264
00:14:57,640 --> 00:15:00,080
activity in the first decade of 
ownership. 

265
00:15:00,760 --> 00:15:02,960
Then they'll fall off a Cliff 
because they go right, we've got

266
00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:06,520
the forever home, raise the 
kids, we'll be out of here in 20

267
00:15:06,520 --> 00:15:10,120
years. 
I don't think enough estate 

268
00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:12,800
agents, and I think this links 
in some mortgage size things as 

269
00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:18,320
well, understand the value of 
the lifetime customer like that 

270
00:15:18,320 --> 00:15:23,960
first time buyer in 2016 who 
then buys and sells in 2019. 

271
00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:27,440
That was me then he's looking to
buy and sell in 2026. 

272
00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:30,440
I should have done it sooner. 
Maybe I'll be a landlord along 

273
00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:32,640
the way. 
There's multiple transactions 

274
00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:35,400
that have sales and purchase. 
And then to your point around 

275
00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:38,200
the mortgage side of things, 
anything else that might, might 

276
00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:40,800
come up in the meantime, But 
yeah, it's just fine. 

277
00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:42,920
Like in the essentially side of 
things, because we don't have a 

278
00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:45,320
fixed date on when someone is 
moving. 

279
00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:47,680
We go, well, if I don't know, 
I'm just guessing, so I'll just 

280
00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:50,960
archive them. 
But it's like, well, wish them a

281
00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:52,840
happy birthday. 
Like you're going to have them, 

282
00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:55,680
you're going to have their date 
of birth and their ID, you know,

283
00:15:55,680 --> 00:15:58,120
when they moved house, send them
an anniversary card. 

284
00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:00,760
That's to send them a Christmas 
card each year. 

285
00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:03,840
That's three easy excuses to 
stay in contact with someone 

286
00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:06,040
every year without it feeling 
salesy. 

287
00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:09,680
Yeah, I mean, I've got some 
sympathy because there's a lack 

288
00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:13,360
of predictability and it's 
harder to, you know, guess when 

289
00:16:13,360 --> 00:16:15,440
you're going to get that 
reciprocal piece of business. 

290
00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:19,520
But if you're sitting on globe 
of data, why archive it? 

291
00:16:19,520 --> 00:16:22,160
You know, is there something 
better that can be done with it?

292
00:16:22,520 --> 00:16:24,120
You'll probably know better than
me, Simon. 

293
00:16:24,120 --> 00:16:27,680
But I mean, I know there's some 
great technology out there that 

294
00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:32,400
will help help help agents 
predict when certain customers 

295
00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:36,160
are more likely to, to, to move.
So, you know, even if it's not 

296
00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:40,640
necessarily you picking up the 
phone and and investing your own

297
00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:43,480
time in it, you know, can 
technology help you nurture that

298
00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:45,520
data? 
Yeah, 100%. 

299
00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:48,280
There's that. 
There's definitely resources out

300
00:16:48,280 --> 00:16:51,200
there for estate agents. 
You know, the data world we live

301
00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:56,520
in that you touched on earlier 
where there are propensity to 

302
00:16:56,520 --> 00:16:58,880
move models, let's say where 
they're going. 

303
00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:04,960
Well, if you looked at, I'm 
trying to think now, if you 

304
00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:08,680
looked at how long I've lived in
this home and you look at me and

305
00:17:08,680 --> 00:17:15,440
my girlfriend and our ages and 
how, I don't know, earnings have

306
00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:19,599
changed over time. 
I don't know exactly the 

307
00:17:19,599 --> 00:17:22,440
algorithm and propensity to move
model, but a propensity to move 

308
00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:24,440
model should be screaming at an 
estate agent. 

309
00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:28,280
This car is selling like he's 
moving in the near future. 

310
00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:31,160
I can't remember the exact stat,
but there's a crazy stat out 

311
00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:35,160
there like the the increased 
chance of someone moving in the 

312
00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:37,120
1st 12 months after they've had 
a baby. 

313
00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:41,160
But and then there's also stats 
around when someone retires, 

314
00:17:41,280 --> 00:17:43,960
they're so much more likely to 
move in the 1st 12 months. 

315
00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:46,160
And if they don't do it, they 
ain't moving. 

316
00:17:46,840 --> 00:17:49,760
They even move when they retire 
or they'll be taken out there in

317
00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:54,160
a box, as bad as that sounds. 
So tippies go down, go down to 

318
00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:56,440
the maternity ward with a stack 
of business cards. 

319
00:17:57,600 --> 00:18:00,560
But you but you got it. 
You you joke, but it's it's it's

320
00:18:00,560 --> 00:18:02,200
hanging around in the right 
places. 

321
00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:05,760
I'm a, I'm a big fan of Ryan 
Serhant in in America. 

322
00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:11,120
And he says in like one of his 
books, like he would go and hang

323
00:18:11,120 --> 00:18:15,240
around where he thought set bars
and sellers hung around before 

324
00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:18,480
they needed a realtor. 
And like he'd be in this queue 

325
00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:21,760
at Starbucks and he'd see a lady
who's quite clearly pregnant and

326
00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:26,120
he'd like jokingly go any, any 
chance you maybe need to upsize 

327
00:18:26,120 --> 00:18:27,400
this? 
You got a little one on the way.

328
00:18:27,440 --> 00:18:28,720
I'm a realtor. 
Here's my card. 

329
00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:32,280
Yeah. 
Like, and then there's so many 

330
00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:34,720
like there's techniques, 
strategies for I speak with 

331
00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:41,560
estate agents about on how they 
can potentially be marketing to 

332
00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:44,240
someone before they realise they
need an estate agent. 

333
00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:51,600
Like for example, EPC register 
on the on the EPC register and 

334
00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:56,600
everyone knows the like the most
common EPC register, there's an 

335
00:18:56,600 --> 00:19:00,240
alternative EPC register and in 
the back end it tells you why 

336
00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:03,280
that EPC has been done. 
Is it a new build? 

337
00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:05,640
Is it to sell? 
Is it to rent, etcetera. 

338
00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:09,080
You don't check that EPC 
register and it goes, oh, look, 

339
00:19:09,080 --> 00:19:12,320
100 Smith St. had an EPC done 
for sale purposes. 

340
00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:14,120
That's weird. 
It's not on right move. 

341
00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:17,120
Maybe that's someone gearing. 
I'm getting ready to sell. 

342
00:19:17,120 --> 00:19:19,280
Well, I'm now going to check my 
database. 

343
00:19:19,280 --> 00:19:22,200
That's weird. 
Stuart from 100 Smith St. 

344
00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:23,600
I sold a house to him 10 years 
ago. 

345
00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:25,640
He's just had an EPC done. 
He didn't do that with me. 

346
00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:29,320
I'm going to give him a call and
if I don't if I don't know who 

347
00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:33,040
Stuart is, I'm sending a letter 
to your house or I'm doing 

348
00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:37,760
marketing about like there's 
there are there are clues and 

349
00:19:38,840 --> 00:19:40,120
I'm God, I wrote it down the 
other day. 

350
00:19:40,120 --> 00:19:47,240
So I'm a big fan of Tony Robbins
and he speaks about patterns and

351
00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:50,960
he says that first of all you 
got to spot patterns, then you 

352
00:19:50,960 --> 00:19:53,840
use patterns, then you create 
patterns. 

353
00:19:56,080 --> 00:19:58,920
OK, that's interesting. 
And to give you a very quick 

354
00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:01,320
example, because I'm conscious 
I'm going off a bit of a mad 

355
00:20:01,320 --> 00:20:05,600
tangent now, this will be 
probably 10 years ago. 

356
00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:09,320
You know how Zoopra have got 
their like estimates so people 

357
00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:10,800
can go and find out the estimate
of their home. 

358
00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:14,120
There are now over 6,000,000 
home owners across the UK who 

359
00:20:14,120 --> 00:20:15,640
are tracking their home on 
Zoopla. 

360
00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:18,320
To understand the value, which 
is a huge amount of people. 

361
00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:21,800
About 10 years ago they did 
something on Zoopla called Tempt

362
00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:25,800
Me Price. 
People could go on track, log 

363
00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:28,360
their home track here and put a 
Tempt Me Price. 

364
00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:31,560
I remember that, yeah. 
Yeah, I went on to Zoopla when I

365
00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:35,920
was running a branch and found 
10 houses in my area that were 

366
00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:39,680
on there as a temporary price. 
And I basically wrote a letter, 

367
00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:42,200
had a brochure and delivered it 
to them. 

368
00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:44,400
Eight people never responded to 
me. 

369
00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:46,920
One told me to piss off. 
They rang me up and said, where 

370
00:20:46,920 --> 00:20:49,640
did you get my details from? 
So you literally put on a public

371
00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:52,120
website that you're looking to 
sell. 

372
00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:55,560
This is the price I'd sell at. 
So I'm contacting you to say 

373
00:20:56,040 --> 00:20:59,880
maybe I can help you. 
And then one person, another one

374
00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:01,560
came back to me and I sold their
house. 

375
00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:06,200
It was literally a, a free 
website showing me people who 

376
00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:10,480
are thinking of moving like it's
it, it wasn't rocket science. 

377
00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:13,320
So sorry, I've gone off on a on 
a mad tangent there. 

378
00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:15,840
Something I want to go back on 
though. 

379
00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:19,360
You, you mentioned that social 
media, and this might be a 

380
00:21:19,360 --> 00:21:23,760
really, really stupid comment 
from me, but is it harder for a 

381
00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:28,680
mortgage broker to use social 
media compared to an estate 

382
00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:30,400
agent? 
Because like regulations you've 

383
00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:34,760
got about giving advice on like 
interest rates and stuff like 

384
00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:36,440
that. 
Yeah, there's a little bit more 

385
00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:39,440
governance around it. 
So for instance, you need 

386
00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:43,280
disclaimers in anything that you
put a call to action into the 

387
00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:46,800
customer. 
So if, if, if you're saying 

388
00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:50,760
contact me, follow me on social 
media, you need to disclaimer 

389
00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:53,200
there. 
I mean, I, I sometimes thinks 

390
00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:57,040
those types of social media are 
a little bit more crass anyway. 

391
00:21:57,040 --> 00:21:59,960
I think, you know, the social 
media that I engage best with is

392
00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:03,680
something that educates you on, 
you know, on the industry, 

393
00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:05,960
whether it be estate agency or 
mortgage services. 

394
00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:10,200
And I think some organisations, 
you know, certainly if you're 

395
00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:12,440
working for a big corporate, 
you're not going to be given a 

396
00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:14,960
leash to go and do whatever you 
want on social media. 

397
00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:19,760
I mean, I dare say even in your 
time at you work for a local 

398
00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:23,120
agent, you know, 9 or 10 
branches, you probably weren't 

399
00:22:23,120 --> 00:22:26,360
allowed to do too much on your 
own on social media at the time.

400
00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:29,520
Quick, quick story on that, but 
I really shared numerous times 

401
00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:34,520
before on the podcast. 
I remember probably a dozen 

402
00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:38,480
years ago now, maybe closer to 
15, we had to sign a contract 

403
00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:41,760
saying we'd not bring the 
company into disrepute on social

404
00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:43,600
media. 
We'll not mention where we work.

405
00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:46,640
Yeah. 
And at the time it, you know, 

406
00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:50,040
kind of makes sense because that
was an era of, you know, I'm 

407
00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:55,000
like late teens at that point, 
early 20s, where you may be 

408
00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:57,560
going out to a bar or a club on 
a Friday, Saturday night and 

409
00:22:57,560 --> 00:22:59,600
they've got the club 
photographers and you're there 

410
00:22:59,960 --> 00:23:04,520
like absolutely obliterated. 
You don't like want that on your

411
00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:06,760
profile and then someone's 
searching you when they're 

412
00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:08,960
sending £1,000,000 house. 
So you kind of get that, but 

413
00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:13,640
then it's mad in terms of like, 
we do not want you to be like 

414
00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:16,920
sharing that information. 
Then you look to them, you go, 

415
00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:19,360
well, actually you want you want
you. 

416
00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:22,080
You want your people to shout 
proudly from a rooftop where 

417
00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:24,440
they work. 
There's someone who's just left.

418
00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:26,760
I've seen it numerous times, but
someone who's just left the 

419
00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:30,640
company where I used to work and
they've just absolutely smashed 

420
00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:33,640
it on social media. 
They're very active on 

421
00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:35,000
Instagram. 
I'm like, well, they weren't 

422
00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:36,240
using that when they're 
employed. 

423
00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:39,720
Yeah, and. 
And they've got like a, a new 

424
00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:42,440
lease of life and they're 
picking up what appears to me 

425
00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:44,720
loads of business through social
media. 

426
00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:49,280
And you're like, if that 
business had let them do that, 

427
00:23:50,360 --> 00:23:51,840
perhaps they wouldn't have lost 
that person. 

428
00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:53,360
They would have been generating 
more business. 

429
00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:56,360
And I think that's the other 
thing about the self-employed 

430
00:23:56,360 --> 00:23:57,920
model. 
You, you, you look at social 

431
00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:02,640
media content, the, the largest 
proportion of it seems to come 

432
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:05,560
from those agents from a 
self-employed background. 

433
00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:11,600
And I think there's a huge 
opportunity for mortgage brokers

434
00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:14,640
to operate in the same way. 
You see a little bit and 

435
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:17,520
there's, yeah, there's, I could 
probably count on one hand sort 

436
00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:20,400
of the, you know, the, the good 
content providers from a 

437
00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:22,520
mortgage broker world. 
But there's, there's a huge 

438
00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:27,240
opportunity to engage with your 
local community and also 

439
00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:30,040
culturally aligned with the guys
we're working with, with Exp 

440
00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:32,960
that, you know, they need to see
that, you know, we're, we're, 

441
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:36,440
we're in their shoes, You know, 
we're promoting our business and

442
00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:38,640
ourselves in our local 
marketplace. 

443
00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:42,240
But equally, we're liking and 
sharing what they do and helping

444
00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:45,240
them grow, grow their business 
and helping them promote their 

445
00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:49,360
properties. 
And how, how have you factors 

446
00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:53,280
when, when did you, when did you
launch? 

447
00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:55,760
When did you? 
Was it February? 

448
00:24:56,160 --> 00:25:01,120
We yeah, it started in February 
and went public in March. 

449
00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:05,440
OK, so we're, we're a few months
into new business. 

450
00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:07,920
How? 
How have you? 

451
00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:13,800
How have you found things? 
It's, it's been a big shift in 

452
00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:18,280
mindset going from an 
environment where I've been 

453
00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:22,200
looking after a vast number of 
employed people. 

454
00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:26,880
So yeah, I think what I've had 
to do is be very, very adaptable

455
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:30,440
in terms of making sure that 
these guys have got the autonomy

456
00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:34,320
that they joined me for, but 
making sure that I'm providing A

457
00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:37,400
supportive environment, make 
sure that we've got a bit of an 

458
00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:40,360
in it together mentality. 
And we're, yeah, we've got our 

459
00:25:40,360 --> 00:25:42,720
own WhatsApp group. 
We have calls every week, we 

460
00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:46,160
discuss the inevitable teeth in 
problems that you have with a 

461
00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:50,840
new business. 
And I think, I think I've done 

462
00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:52,960
this quite successfully. 
That's the feedback I've had 

463
00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:57,440
anyway. 
But our most important customer 

464
00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:02,120
is the agent. 
And I think what I was quite 

465
00:26:02,120 --> 00:26:05,280
clear on when I first started 
with the self-employed model, 

466
00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:07,880
you could just go and recruit 
the market and recruit anybody 

467
00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:11,160
with a heartbeat because whether
they're mega successful or they 

468
00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:13,160
fail, you're still making a 
margin. 

469
00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:17,200
But but to me that that first 
cohort of advisors was really, 

470
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:20,640
really crucial. 
I knew if my recruitment wasn't 

471
00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:25,360
pin sharp and the agents don't 
get that first class experience 

472
00:26:25,360 --> 00:26:28,320
in terms of speed and 
communication and promising what

473
00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:31,480
we delivered, they would they 
would turn around and say to 

474
00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:33,840
their colleagues, well, yeah, 
don't, don't, don't bother about

475
00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:35,120
Stuart. 
There's next pad crown. 

476
00:26:35,120 --> 00:26:40,080
So I've been really fortunate, I
suppose with my contacts over 

477
00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:43,560
the years that, you know, the 
first cohort of brokers that I'm

478
00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:46,680
working with are people that 
I've known a very long time that

479
00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:49,640
I trust. 
Quite, quite a lot of them have 

480
00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:52,120
also been self-employed. 
So there's, you know, a few of 

481
00:26:52,120 --> 00:26:55,880
them that perhaps work for a 
corporate 10-15 years ago have 

482
00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:58,520
gone out on their own and gone 
self-employed. 

483
00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:01,760
So I think a little bit of 
adaptability in it. 

484
00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:05,560
I've also loved getting a lot 
closer to the front line as 

485
00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:09,480
well, though it feels like I've 
had a chance to get my hands a 

486
00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:12,520
bit dirty, you know, role play 
conversations with customers, 

487
00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:16,280
role play conversations with 
agents and, and do some of that 

488
00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:18,720
really good frontline coaching 
that I've really, really 

489
00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:21,360
enjoyed. 
The amount of times I think I, I

490
00:27:21,360 --> 00:27:24,560
hear someone say similar to what
what you've just been alluding 

491
00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:28,320
to, where you get to a very 
senior position in the business 

492
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:31,160
and you're, so you're so far 
removed from the frontline. 

493
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:34,400
It's spreadsheets and meetings. 
You're not actually doing the 

494
00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:37,400
things you're really, really 
good and passionate about and 

495
00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:41,040
like, and then they they get a 
new lease of life when they go 

496
00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:43,600
do it themselves and and get 
closer to it. 

497
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:49,360
In terms of the self-employed 
mortgage brokers. 

498
00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:52,880
Let's a hypothetical scenario, 
and I think this translates 

499
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:54,400
through to estate agency as 
well. 

500
00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:59,200
Let's say I've been a mortgage 
broker for a large multi branch 

501
00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:02,640
independent estate agent around 
the sort of area. 

502
00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:06,120
I've been doing it a few years 
and I've heard you on this 

503
00:28:06,120 --> 00:28:08,920
podcast and I like, I like, I 
like what he has to say and I 

504
00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:12,760
want to be part of that. 
And I join where, where does 

505
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:15,560
that person go to go and start 
getting business? 

506
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:18,040
Like what would their, what 
their first few weeks look like 

507
00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:21,000
when they're sat on 9:00 AM on a
Monday morning at their desk at 

508
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:24,040
home at the kitchen table and 
gone, right? 

509
00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:25,280
What do I do now? 
What's that? 

510
00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:28,280
What's that look like? 
So, so typically what their 

511
00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:32,960
journey would look like is once 
they've joined us, I would set 

512
00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:39,720
up calls with 345 Exp agents. 
And yeah, have a, have a 

513
00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:43,440
partnership. 
We're fortunate that we've got 

514
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:47,040
lots of Exp agents that are 
willing to adopt the model where

515
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:50,240
where I'm being quite careful. 
If I go and switch on the world 

516
00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:52,920
and I've only got 2 brokers, we 
just won't be able to deliver. 

517
00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:57,160
So, so typically I would match 
them with those brokers. 

518
00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:00,520
They'd perhaps set up a weekly 
call, they'd spend a little bit 

519
00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:02,480
of time with their Exp 
colleagues. 

520
00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:05,080
I'd spend some time with them 
just to make sure that they 

521
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:09,680
understand the culture. 
Clawed AI is unbelievable. 

522
00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:12,640
Yeah, we've got an overnight 
sweep set up which tracks all 

523
00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:17,120
the changes in status on any Exp
property, which enables the 

524
00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:19,880
broker to pick up the phone to 
the agent, say, yeah, great 

525
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:22,560
news, I see you've just had this
new one on the market or you've 

526
00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:28,520
just had this withdrawn or just 
had that sold and they received 

527
00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:33,000
2 tiers of Commission. 
So I think we're not looking for

528
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:35,840
the type of broker that's got 
that feed me mentality and 

529
00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:38,480
thinks, well, I want a piece of 
the action. 

530
00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:41,880
I'll just sit at a laptop and 
wait for an Exp agent to refer 

531
00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:43,560
to me. 
That's not how it works. 

532
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:47,160
But if they're willing to 
partner properly and align 

533
00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:50,320
properly with those 3 or 4 
agents, we're we're starting to 

534
00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:52,400
see a decent leave flow from 
those. 

535
00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:56,320
But we also expect our brokers 
to be going out there promoting 

536
00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:57,840
themselves under their personal 
brands. 

537
00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:04,600
So so far we've we've written as
much mortgage business from the 

538
00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:08,480
consultants own sources, self 
promotion and client bank then 

539
00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:11,800
we have to be Nexpad Say, say, 
say that again. 

540
00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:14,720
Sorry you've. 
We've written as much business 

541
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:19,880
from the the brokers own sources
as we have from Exp. 

542
00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:22,560
So I think it's a huge 
opportunity. 

543
00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:26,320
It's great opportunity to plug 
brokers in to an Exp lead 

544
00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:28,760
source. 
But one of my pet hates are 

545
00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:32,200
brokers with that feed me 
mentality that that just want to

546
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:35,080
rock up, sit behind a laptop, 
not really talk to anybody and 

547
00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:36,480
expect the leads to come 
through. 

548
00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:39,920
That's not what it is. 
But for estate agency aligned 

549
00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:42,720
brokers that are willing to 
build relationships, you know, 

550
00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:45,080
working in the agents world and 
meet them in their world, 

551
00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:50,440
there's been a huge opportunity.
And obviously from EXPS point of

552
00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:53,480
view, we've had some great 
testimonials from agents talking

553
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:57,280
about our speed, our 
communication, our referral of 

554
00:30:57,280 --> 00:31:01,880
instruction. 
So yeah, if you're listening, 

555
00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:04,760
pick up the phone, find me on 
LinkedIn, have a chat with me, 

556
00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:07,720
and we'll talk about the next 
steps. 

557
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:15,480
And you said earlier about well 
typically I pass a lead to a 

558
00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:18,680
traditional mortgage broker, 
let's say outside of because I 

559
00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:21,240
don't have financial services 
within my state industry. 

560
00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:25,680
I pass over to John Smith, he 
pays me a referral fee. 

561
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:31,480
But then for the next 5-2 year 
fixed rates over a decade, John 

562
00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:34,440
keeps getting repeat business. 
But I don't see anything from 

563
00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:36,880
that. 
But what I gathered and correct 

564
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:39,760
if I'm wrong is that if there 
were five different 2 year fixed

565
00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:42,000
rates over the next decade, 
you'd be going there's your 

566
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:44,080
check sign, there's your check 
sign, there's your check sign. 

567
00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:45,960
Absolutely, right. 
Yeah. 

568
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:49,280
And that's where there's a huge 
opportunity to fit for agents to

569
00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:52,440
earn from that guaranteed, well,
not guaranteed, but the 

570
00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:57,840
retention rates are 6065% those 
remortgage opportunities. 

571
00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:02,920
So I mean, a good way to think 
of it is if you know, if you're,

572
00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:05,920
if you're averaging even a 
modest 30 or 40 mortgage 

573
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:11,360
completions a year as an agent, 
that should be worth 20 to 25 

574
00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:16,440
guaranteed opportunities in two 
to five years where you'll see 

575
00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:18,040
income coming back into your 
business. 

576
00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:22,280
And I'd just challenge any agent
listening, you know, review, 

577
00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:25,160
review your broker relationship.
Are you getting lifetime 

578
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:28,600
Commission And you know, do you 
have any shareholding or any 

579
00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:33,560
equity in, in that business? 
Because the value of that data 

580
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:35,680
is, is sky rocketing. 
The value of mortgage 

581
00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:37,880
businesses. 
It's, it's very easy, I think as

582
00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:42,160
a mortgage broker to sort your 
retirement plans out and, and, 

583
00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:47,040
and build an exit strategy. 
And what if, if I can ask this, 

584
00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:51,720
what does, what does a sort of 
typical Commission look like if 

585
00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:55,040
I passed someone over to you who
does a mortgage? 

586
00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:59,240
I don't know, borrows 250 grand.
Yeah, yeah. 

587
00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:02,840
The average Commission will vary
depending on you know whether 

588
00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:08,080
whether insurance is has been 
sold the size of mortgage but 

589
00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:11,920
but so far our average fee is 
around about the 2000 LB mark. 

590
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:16,960
And as it hang on more as in 
what you're paying out or what 

591
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:18,760
you're. 
Sorry, that's, that's the, 

592
00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:22,240
that's the gross. 
So what you're saying is what, 

593
00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:24,680
what, what's it worth? 
What's it worth in the agent's 

594
00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:25,480
pocket? 
Correct. 

595
00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:27,720
Yeah. 
Yeah, what, what it's worth in 

596
00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:34,760
the agent's pocket probably 
ranges between 450 and £700. 

597
00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:39,960
The the other important point 
and, and this was a real ask 

598
00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:42,200
from Adam Day when we were 
putting the proposition 

599
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:45,960
together. 
Adam knows how much Commission 

600
00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:49,520
that brokers make from life 
insurance business and they 

601
00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:51,360
rarely pay that out to the 
agents. 

602
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:55,320
So we've, you know, Adam drove a
hard bargain and insisted that 

603
00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:57,640
we include life insurance 
Commission in there as well. 

604
00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:02,680
So I'm, I'm selfishly being on 
the agent side. 

605
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:04,800
Yeah, I'm going to say rightly 
so. 

606
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:12,320
I remember when I got my first 
mortgage and reading through 

607
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:16,040
like the paperwork from the 
mortgage broker, I was like, how

608
00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:17,960
much is he earning off life 
insurance? 

609
00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:19,920
I was like, this is this is 
crazy. 

610
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:22,560
And that was that was an old, 
old family friend. 

611
00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:25,639
And I was like, all right, now 
makes sense why he's always done

612
00:34:25,639 --> 00:34:27,880
all right for himself. 
All this money is earning enough

613
00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:31,080
off life insurance. 
I was like when when I was an 

614
00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:34,360
agent, you know, when you would 
say to someone, yeah, God, I've 

615
00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:37,199
not, I've not tried to offer 
someone financial service for a 

616
00:34:37,199 --> 00:34:40,000
while now. 
But you know, the classic, who 

617
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:43,199
have you spoken to so far with 
regards to funding your purchase

618
00:34:43,199 --> 00:34:46,719
or what comparisons have you 
made or the classic open-ended 

619
00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:48,840
questions. 
And when someone goes, I've got 

620
00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:51,080
a family friend who's a mortgage
broker, you go, what a load of 

621
00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:53,520
bollocks. 
Like you just, that's just, 

622
00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:56,199
that's just an objection to try 
and get me, get me off the 

623
00:34:56,199 --> 00:34:59,440
phone, whatever. 
And when I bought my first house

624
00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:04,360
through a very large estate 
agency, they were trying to get 

625
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:06,720
me to sit in front of a mortgage
broker trying to get me 

626
00:35:06,720 --> 00:35:11,240
financially qualified, saying 
it'd be in the best light for my

627
00:35:11,240 --> 00:35:13,240
offer to go forward, all that 
sort of stuff. 

628
00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:16,280
And I'm just like, I'm in the 
industry, like I know the 

629
00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:18,760
school, like here is my mortgage
broker's details. 

630
00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:21,400
Here's my ARP, here's my proof 
of funds. 

631
00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:24,560
Like there you go. 
But I was the classic. 

632
00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:26,840
I was like, no, no, my family 
friend is a mortgage broker. 

633
00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:33,520
So like I literally whilst I was
passing business to the mortgage

634
00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:36,960
broker within the estate agency 
I worked at, I was like, I'm so 

635
00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:39,520
sorry mate, but when I do buy my
first house, I'm not doing the 

636
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:41,640
mortgage for you. 
But one, it's like I don't want 

637
00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:46,080
to mix my personal life with for
work, which I think is fair. 

638
00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:49,400
But I was always like this this 
guy who's known me from being a 

639
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:51,600
baby, he's like one of my dad's 
closest friends. 

640
00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:53,760
He will look after me. 
I'm going to do my mortgage for 

641
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:55,960
him. 
And I said to the he's now 

642
00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:58,120
retired. 
So I said to the mortgage 

643
00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:00,280
broker, once he's retired, 
you'll have my business, which 

644
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:02,920
he now does. 
Anyway, rambled on there. 

645
00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:07,280
Again, in terms of mortgages, I 
think it'd be remiss of me not 

646
00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:11,800
to talk about the mortgage 
market and interest rates when 

647
00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:15,280
I've got some of your experience
and expertise on the podcast. 

648
00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:18,000
So for the benefit of the 
listeners, we are recording this

649
00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:24,240
on the 21st of May. 
So if we went back three months 

650
00:36:24,240 --> 00:36:31,320
ago and you're kind of right at 
the start of the business. 

651
00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:34,200
Yep. 
Interest rates have sort of 

652
00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:36,440
steadily been coming down for a 
couple of years. 

653
00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:40,520
Then at the end of February, we 
have the conflict obviously 

654
00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:42,760
start in the Middle East and 
then we've seen interest rates 

655
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:46,640
shoot up very kind of rapidly. 
They've started to sort of creep

656
00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:50,080
down a little bit over over 
recent weeks from that height 

657
00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:51,920
they hit. 
But what does, what does the 

658
00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:56,040
mortgage market look like in 
Stuart Dare's opinion, from from

659
00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:59,040
an interest rate perspective and
amount of products out there, 

660
00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:01,240
shelf life on products, all that
sort of stuff? 

661
00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:04,160
Yeah, I think, I think we're 
hitting a sweet spot. 

662
00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:09,920
What we've seen over the last 
few years is I think the markets

663
00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:13,960
overreact every time there is a 
geopolitical event. 

664
00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:16,200
I mean, if you look at what 
happened after the mini budget 

665
00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:19,200
rates went crazy and then came 
back to normality. 

666
00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:22,040
The same thing happened after 
the tariff announcements and the

667
00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:26,000
same thing happened after the 
the conflict in February. 

668
00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:30,160
I think we saw the markets 
overreact and rates went up a 

669
00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:32,880
percent. 
We've seen an easing of swap 

670
00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:35,480
rates. 
I think we saw a reduction in 

671
00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:38,840
swap rates this week. 
So we're not down to where we 

672
00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:44,000
were pre February, but we're 
somewhere between the two. 

673
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:48,320
The interesting thing for me in 
the last couple of weeks is 

674
00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:52,760
we've seen, I think the biggest 
hurdle for first time buyers 

675
00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:55,600
isn't necessary affordability 
getting the mortgage, it's the 

676
00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:59,400
deposit. 
And we've seen Lloyds Banking 

677
00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:03,240
Group bring out products with a 
£5000 deposit. 

678
00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:07,360
We've seen Santander with, you 
know, £10,000 deposit. 

679
00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:11,640
So you know, these, these are 
potentially options that that 

680
00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:15,480
will allow customers to proceed 
with less than a 5% deposit. 

681
00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:18,280
So I don't think we're going 
back to the Northern Rock 

682
00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:20,880
together days. 
Borrow 120% of the value of the 

683
00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:23,400
house. 
But I think there's some lenders

684
00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:26,760
coming up with some innovative, 
innovative solutions to help 

685
00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:30,120
first time buyers get on the 
ladder with very, very low 

686
00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:35,240
deposits. 
And affordability wise, I think 

687
00:38:35,240 --> 00:38:37,360
I think there's some great 
affordability in the market at 

688
00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:40,320
the moment. 
I've got a real beer in my 

689
00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:44,440
bonnet about the, you know, how 
the media talk about the housing

690
00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:48,200
market and the mortgage market 
and how the media talk about 

691
00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:52,280
over inflated house prices. 
I, I put something on LinkedIn 

692
00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:56,360
recently, but if you factor in 
inflation versus house prices, 

693
00:38:56,640 --> 00:38:59,160
house prices are cheaper now 
than at any point they've been 

694
00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:03,320
since 2003. 
And, and if you consider the 

695
00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:07,280
astronomical inflation that 
we've had since COVID and the 

696
00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:11,200
fact that prices have almost 
been flat, when you look at real

697
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:15,680
prices, they may have stayed 
flat, maybe crept up three, 4%. 

698
00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:19,120
Sorry, nominal prices are 
prepped up three, 4%. 

699
00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:23,400
But factor in inflation, we're, 
we're probably 20% down from the

700
00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:27,320
peak. 
I sincerely, I sincerely feel 

701
00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:29,600
we're towards the bottom of the 
price cycle. 

702
00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:36,120
We've had no, no artificial 
interference such as stamp duty,

703
00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:40,240
holidays, help to buy. 
There's nothing that's 

704
00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:43,160
artificially stoked the market. 
I think the market's found its 

705
00:39:43,160 --> 00:39:46,280
place. 
Rates are kind of of kind of 

706
00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:47,640
stabilised where they where they
are. 

707
00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:50,240
I don't think we're going to get
any huge rises or huge cuts. 

708
00:39:50,240 --> 00:39:53,000
It wouldn't surprise me if base 
rate's the same at the end of 

709
00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:55,720
the year as it is now. 
But I think there's great 

710
00:39:55,720 --> 00:39:57,560
affordability out there in the 
market. 

711
00:39:58,240 --> 00:40:01,400
And I think we're towards the 
bottom of the price cycle. 

712
00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:06,320
And I say this sincerely because
my eldest son's 20 and I'm 

713
00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:08,120
telling him this. 
I think it's a great time to 

714
00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:10,320
buy. 
Interesting. 

715
00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:12,440
I love, love everything and just
been saying that. 

716
00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:17,480
And obviously the media sell bad
news, right? 

717
00:40:17,520 --> 00:40:21,080
That's that's what gets people's
attention. 

718
00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:23,240
When was when was the last time 
you picked up a newspaper, 

719
00:40:23,240 --> 00:40:25,640
Simon? 
Or, or, or read something online

720
00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:29,640
and it talked about a booming 
housing market or talked about a

721
00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:31,480
great housing market? 
I can't remember. 

722
00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:32,720
I can't remember reading 
anything. 

723
00:40:32,720 --> 00:40:34,800
Yeah. 
It's why I try and like when I 

724
00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:39,120
put data out, I try and I am a 
glass half full kind of guy when

725
00:40:39,120 --> 00:40:43,240
it comes to property market. 
I think I talk with realistic 

726
00:40:43,240 --> 00:40:47,560
positivity or realistic optimism
rather than being a bit 

727
00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:51,280
negative. 
But like on the affordability 

728
00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:55,320
side of things, like you said, 
lenders being more innovative 

729
00:40:56,240 --> 00:41:00,360
when you've got the stress 
testing being eased from where 

730
00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:01,640
it was. 
And like you said, we're not 

731
00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:04,960
back to where we were in 2008. 
But then also we've got the 

732
00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:09,280
biggest transference of wealth 
the world has ever seen going on

733
00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:11,320
from like a baby boomer 
generation. 

734
00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:13,840
And you say about that 
difficulty with deposit. 

735
00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:16,800
I completely get that there is 
going to be difficulties out 

736
00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:20,320
there, but there are so many 
grandparents and parents. 

737
00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:23,920
So Bank of mum and dad who are 
going, well, there's the 50 

738
00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:26,360
grand or whatever for a deposit.
Like when you look at the 

739
00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:28,840
average deposit of a first time 
buyer, like it's insane. 

740
00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:31,840
And then it's your point on the 
affordability, like a nationwide

741
00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:34,520
house price index coming out 
every month and they look at the

742
00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:38,760
25 year long term sort of 
average of affordability. 

743
00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:44,040
I'm like it says affordability 
is very average right now and on

744
00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:47,440
what you're saying about the 
base rate as well, if it does 

745
00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:50,480
frustrate me a lot when I see 
estate agents put posts out 

746
00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:55,080
after the MPC has met and if a 
base rate has gone up or down 

747
00:41:55,080 --> 00:41:56,800
and they're like, this is what 
it's done to your mortgage. 

748
00:41:56,800 --> 00:42:01,600
You know, that's not the, the 
thing impacting the interest 

749
00:42:01,600 --> 00:42:04,440
rates yesterday, people on, on 
the variable, for example, But 

750
00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:08,000
it's like, I don't know what, 
80, probably 85%, maybe 90% of 

751
00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:11,200
mortgages are fixed where it's, 
it's irrelevant what just 

752
00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:13,320
happened to to the rate that 
day. 

753
00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:18,280
But I put out a post I think a 
few weeks ago now when the MPC 

754
00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:25,800
paused at 3.75% and I'd said 
that whilst the public and down 

755
00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:28,320
the pub will be like, God, 
that's so high, isn't it? 

756
00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:33,000
I tried to offer some sort of 
substance of, well, actually if 

757
00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:38,280
you're comparing it to 2009 to 
21, then yes, it does seem high.

758
00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:41,600
But when you look at the 
massively long term average of 

759
00:42:41,840 --> 00:42:45,200
closer to 6% actually looks very
normal. 

760
00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:49,360
So I'm, I'm keen to find out 
from you if you actually, you've

761
00:42:49,360 --> 00:42:50,720
kind of got what we're trying to
say here. 

762
00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:57,120
You've got pre crash and post 
crash in terms of like a base 

763
00:42:57,120 --> 00:43:01,640
rate and where people's blood 
bias on this goes 09 to 21. 

764
00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:05,360
If you're somebody bought a 
house in that period and all 

765
00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:08,600
you'd known was a base rate 
below 2%, which was its first 

766
00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:11,440
time in history. 
Anything above 2% you could go. 

767
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:13,560
That's expensive. 
No, no, what you should be 

768
00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:15,760
saying is, my God, it used to be
really cheap, didn't it? 

769
00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:17,560
It's not expensive now it's 
normal. 

770
00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:21,960
So like in your earlier years in
this business, so kind of turn 

771
00:43:21,960 --> 00:43:25,040
the Millennium before the crash 
happened, I'm assuming the base 

772
00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:27,560
rate we see now, the interest 
rates we see of what you were 

773
00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:29,080
seeing in your early days, 
right? 

774
00:43:29,520 --> 00:43:33,920
Well, I, I, I, I'm sure when I 
started out, the base rate was 6

775
00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:36,640
1/2 percent. 
And I remember colleagues 

776
00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:41,440
jumping through hoops 
celebrating the fact that the 

777
00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:44,000
rates are lower now than they've
been at any time for the last 10

778
00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:47,280
years. 
So 6 1/2% was, was deemed to be 

779
00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:53,360
super, super cheap. 
And I think 33 to 4% is is still

780
00:43:53,360 --> 00:43:56,320
really, really cheap money. 
Yeah, is it? 

781
00:43:56,480 --> 00:43:59,520
Yeah, you look at the long term 
trend, it is cheap. 

782
00:43:59,520 --> 00:44:03,000
But I think the, the point I've 
been trying to get across to a 

783
00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:07,200
lot of agents I've speaking to 
recently is that imagine for a 

784
00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:14,120
second you were someone who 
bought their first home in 2021 

785
00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:18,320
and it was, I don't know, A2 up 
to down and you got a five year 

786
00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:20,960
fix. 
Now, in that five years you've 

787
00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:23,920
had a kid and now you want to go
buy a bigger house, you want to 

788
00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:26,840
borrow more money. 
So you're coming off that five 

789
00:44:26,840 --> 00:44:30,080
year fix at a nice low rate and 
then you come forward. 

790
00:44:30,080 --> 00:44:32,480
Now you go bloody hell, my 
mortgage is going to be a lot 

791
00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:34,040
more money than what I've been 
used to paying. 

792
00:44:34,040 --> 00:44:36,120
Now I've got an extra mouth to 
feed, I'll need to borrow an 

793
00:44:36,120 --> 00:44:38,240
extra 200 grand, need to up 
size. 

794
00:44:38,680 --> 00:44:41,240
All of a sudden they go bloody 
hell, my mortgage is like double

795
00:44:41,240 --> 00:44:43,960
what I've been used to. 
Now probably they've, you know, 

796
00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:46,720
gone up the corporate ladder, 
they've earned more money with 

797
00:44:46,720 --> 00:44:49,280
wage growth, whatever. 
What I'm trying to say to agents

798
00:44:49,280 --> 00:44:52,080
is that we haven't got that 
artificial inflation to the 

799
00:44:52,080 --> 00:44:54,280
market, like you said, of stamp 
duty, holiday, help to buy, 

800
00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:56,320
etcetera. 
You got these buyers with a lot 

801
00:44:56,320 --> 00:44:58,320
more choice than they had a few 
years ago. 

802
00:44:58,360 --> 00:45:01,520
Their money's not going as far. 
So they're willing and happy and

803
00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:04,440
able to buy, but only at the 
right price. 

804
00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:07,520
And if they see it, if they see 
it on that stupid money, there's

805
00:45:07,520 --> 00:45:10,040
so much data out there these 
days, they'll just go, I'm not 

806
00:45:10,040 --> 00:45:11,320
buying that. 
That's stupid money. 

807
00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:13,040
It'll probably reduce in a few 
months. 

808
00:45:14,120 --> 00:45:16,160
Yeah, I can see that. 
Yeah, I can see that. 

809
00:45:17,640 --> 00:45:19,840
I think it's, yeah, it is a 
buyer's market. 

810
00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:24,560
And I'm looking, looking at the 
recent right move stats, I think

811
00:45:24,560 --> 00:45:28,720
they talked about we're at a 9 
or 1010 year high in terms of 

812
00:45:28,720 --> 00:45:31,800
stock on the market. 
But but as you've rightly 

813
00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:35,200
pointed out, you know that the 
right property presented right 

814
00:45:35,200 --> 00:45:37,200
and priced right is still 
selling. 

815
00:45:37,200 --> 00:45:40,680
And if you look at sales volumes
year on year, I think last week 

816
00:45:40,680 --> 00:45:44,320
was the busiest sales we we've 
had so far in 2026. 

817
00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:48,720
So it's still, whilst it's, 
whilst it's perceived in some 

818
00:45:48,720 --> 00:45:52,640
areas to be a buyer's market, 
it's still, it still feels like 

819
00:45:52,640 --> 00:45:54,000
there's a lot of activity out 
there. 

820
00:45:54,400 --> 00:45:56,040
There's there's definitely 
activity. 

821
00:45:56,040 --> 00:45:59,480
I, I say it a lot, you've got 
either you can call it A2 speed 

822
00:45:59,480 --> 00:46:02,520
or A2 tier market. 
So half the market sells, half 

823
00:46:02,520 --> 00:46:05,560
the market doesn't, the half the
market that doesn't sell is that

824
00:46:05,560 --> 00:46:07,800
because of the conflict and 
interest rates? 

825
00:46:07,800 --> 00:46:10,920
And no, it's because they're on 
it too much money and not being 

826
00:46:10,920 --> 00:46:13,640
marketed correctly. 
And because they're on it too 

827
00:46:13,640 --> 00:46:16,240
much money and not marketed 
correctly, they're making the 

828
00:46:16,240 --> 00:46:21,120
other half who do sells life's 
easier because the others look 

829
00:46:21,120 --> 00:46:23,720
really bad value for money. 
They make them look even better.

830
00:46:24,440 --> 00:46:27,760
And yeah, we've had a couple of 
very good sales weeks recently, 

831
00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:32,320
but I saw someone earlier today 
about controller controllables. 

832
00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:36,680
You've got all this ship show 
nationally, internationally, 

833
00:46:36,680 --> 00:46:38,840
politics, economically, 
etcetera. 

834
00:46:39,160 --> 00:46:41,560
Controller controllables, there 
will always be an excuse out 

835
00:46:41,560 --> 00:46:43,320
there. 
If I had a pound for every time 

836
00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:47,160
I hear an agent say it's half 
term, it's a bank holiday, it's 

837
00:46:47,160 --> 00:46:51,560
raining, interest rates are 
higher, Donald Trump pressed a 

838
00:46:51,560 --> 00:46:54,160
button, the next thing is going 
to be it's the World Cup. 

839
00:46:54,160 --> 00:46:57,080
So everyone's watching that. 
So not like busy buying hat. 

840
00:46:57,240 --> 00:47:01,240
There is always going to be an 
excuse we can be using, but just

841
00:47:01,240 --> 00:47:04,520
stay in your own lane, control 
what you can control and people 

842
00:47:04,520 --> 00:47:05,960
are going to be buying some 
houses. 

843
00:47:06,600 --> 00:47:08,320
Yeah, what? 
What one of my one of my pet 

844
00:47:08,320 --> 00:47:11,280
hates, the one that I used to 
hate hearing was that sounds 

845
00:47:11,280 --> 00:47:14,400
like a great idea, but that 
won't work in my town. 

846
00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:17,440
My customers won't think, won't,
won't engage with that. 

847
00:47:17,440 --> 00:47:19,440
I used to call it my town 
mentality. 

848
00:47:19,440 --> 00:47:20,880
So, yeah, OK. 
I am. 

849
00:47:20,920 --> 00:47:24,800
I'm absolutely stealing that 
line, my town mentality because 

850
00:47:25,240 --> 00:47:28,680
I talk a lot about two of the 
most dangerous sentences in the 

851
00:47:28,680 --> 00:47:32,320
estate agency world are that 
will never work in my market or 

852
00:47:32,320 --> 00:47:34,400
we've always done it this way. 
Yeah. 

853
00:47:34,720 --> 00:47:37,680
And every agent I come across 
and I would have been guilty as 

854
00:47:37,680 --> 00:47:40,160
back in the day, but they will 
always say, you know, it's not 

855
00:47:40,160 --> 00:47:43,200
like that where I am, Simon. 
Everyone undercuts on fees and 

856
00:47:43,200 --> 00:47:45,320
they overvalue on price. 
Yeah, like. 

857
00:47:45,520 --> 00:47:48,680
If I had a pound for every 
corner of the UK I've been to 

858
00:47:48,680 --> 00:47:53,000
where they say it's tougher in 
my town, my town mentality, I am

859
00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:54,360
stealing that. 
Thank you very much, Stuart. 

860
00:47:54,720 --> 00:47:57,120
Right. 
OK, so before we get onto the 

861
00:47:57,120 --> 00:47:59,720
final question of the podcast, I
should have asked this earlier 

862
00:47:59,720 --> 00:48:03,040
on in the conversation, but I'm 
intrigued by the medals over 

863
00:48:03,040 --> 00:48:06,360
your right shoulder. 
So what are those what appear to

864
00:48:06,360 --> 00:48:08,920
be 1000 medals for over your 
shoulder? 

865
00:48:10,240 --> 00:48:13,360
I've, I've, I've only turned my 
desk this way because the rest 

866
00:48:13,360 --> 00:48:14,720
of this room is an absolute 
mess. 

867
00:48:14,720 --> 00:48:19,640
So this is the only tidy bit. 
I'm I'm a keen runner. 

868
00:48:19,640 --> 00:48:26,720
So you know, I've run London 
Marathon lots of 55 KS, 10 KS 

869
00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:28,560
used, used to be pretty, pretty 
nifty. 

870
00:48:28,560 --> 00:48:32,040
So I've done, I've done sub 
three hours at London Marathon 

871
00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:36,760
and we podiumed at a couple of 
races, but pushing 50 now, so 

872
00:48:36,760 --> 00:48:38,360
not as not as quick as I used to
be. 

873
00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:41,360
You must have been very 
impressed at the 2 hour mark 

874
00:48:41,360 --> 00:48:45,760
being broken at the London 
Marathon this year and I think 

875
00:48:45,760 --> 00:48:48,520
two others two others did it as 
well as the guy who won. 

876
00:48:49,040 --> 00:48:51,160
You, you, you feel sorry for the
guy who came second. 

877
00:48:51,160 --> 00:48:56,240
So yeah, he broke. 
He broke two hours and yeah, no 

878
00:48:56,240 --> 00:48:59,800
one's thought. 
Yeah, it's as a as a Liverpool 

879
00:48:59,800 --> 00:49:02,680
fan, it pained me when like 
under Yogen Klopp, there is a 

880
00:49:02,680 --> 00:49:06,640
couple of times we lost the 
league title to City on like 92 

881
00:49:06,640 --> 00:49:08,840
and 97 points. 
And if you look over the years, 

882
00:49:08,840 --> 00:49:11,160
how many times Liverpool would 
have won a league tights on 

883
00:49:11,160 --> 00:49:14,000
those points totals. 
But if someone's got more than 

884
00:49:14,240 --> 00:49:15,680
more points than there's not a 
lot you can do. 

885
00:49:15,680 --> 00:49:17,920
I can't help but think from the 
running side of things, Stuart, 

886
00:49:19,440 --> 00:49:23,920
how you know I'm not a runner, 
Like I'm definitely not. 

887
00:49:23,920 --> 00:49:27,880
But you know, did anyone ever 
think 2 hours could be beaten a 

888
00:49:27,880 --> 00:49:30,920
bit like Roger Bannister? 
You know, you'll never be able 

889
00:49:30,920 --> 00:49:33,000
to do a mile under 4 minutes or 
whatever it is. 

890
00:49:33,080 --> 00:49:36,440
But yeah, I think after Roger 
Bannister did it, loads of 

891
00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:38,880
people followed afterwards. 
So I can't help but think that 

892
00:49:38,880 --> 00:49:42,920
for my town mentality, whether 
it's a state agency or mortgage 

893
00:49:42,920 --> 00:49:46,840
broker site, I'll never be able 
to charge 2% in my town or I'll 

894
00:49:46,840 --> 00:49:52,120
never be able to, I don't know, 
get get a seller to pay a fee 

895
00:49:52,120 --> 00:49:55,160
upfront or I'll never get them 
to sign up to do auction or 

896
00:49:55,160 --> 00:49:58,280
reservation agreements or or 
whatever it is. 

897
00:49:58,280 --> 00:50:00,880
It's like, well, someone always 
had to be first, right? 

898
00:50:02,480 --> 00:50:05,640
I think there's a huge link 
between sports psychology and 

899
00:50:05,640 --> 00:50:09,000
business psychology and self 
limiting beliefs. 

900
00:50:11,080 --> 00:50:16,120
Yeah, I'm, I'm not naturally, 
genetically the best runner. 

901
00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:19,800
But. 
What I am prepared to do is I'm 

902
00:50:19,800 --> 00:50:22,840
probably prepared to hurt myself
quite a lot more. 

903
00:50:22,840 --> 00:50:25,640
I'm prepared to push myself into
those uncomfortable zones. 

904
00:50:26,600 --> 00:50:29,160
And I think relating that to the
business world, it's not always 

905
00:50:29,160 --> 00:50:31,120
the most talented person that 
succeed. 

906
00:50:31,120 --> 00:50:35,280
It's, it's, it's the person 
that's prepared to be, get 

907
00:50:35,280 --> 00:50:38,000
comfortable with the 
uncomfortable, that's, you know,

908
00:50:38,000 --> 00:50:41,560
prepared to push themselves out 
of their comfort zone and 

909
00:50:41,560 --> 00:50:45,360
venture into new, new territory 
and be curious and, and try 

910
00:50:45,360 --> 00:50:47,240
things. 
I'm not saying go and invent the

911
00:50:47,240 --> 00:50:50,760
wheel and burn a load of cash on
the next big, big, big idea, but

912
00:50:51,680 --> 00:50:53,760
you know, when you, when you, 
when you hear that idea and 

913
00:50:53,760 --> 00:50:56,040
you're on the fence about it, 
what have you got to lose? 

914
00:50:56,080 --> 00:50:58,360
You know, just sample it. 
Just try it. 

915
00:50:58,360 --> 00:51:03,400
Just try it on, try it out. 
Because until, until you test 

916
00:51:03,400 --> 00:51:06,040
the water, you're never going to
know whether it really works in 

917
00:51:06,040 --> 00:51:09,200
your market. 
And if, if you think, if you 

918
00:51:09,200 --> 00:51:10,880
think that's not right, that 
won't work. 

919
00:51:10,880 --> 00:51:13,120
Do you know what? 
You're probably right and you're

920
00:51:13,120 --> 00:51:14,760
right because of yourself. 
Limited belief. 

921
00:51:15,040 --> 00:51:17,120
Whether you think you can or 
whether you think you can't, 

922
00:51:17,120 --> 00:51:19,080
you're right. 
Much better way of putting it, 

923
00:51:19,080 --> 00:51:21,840
yeah. 
And I think there's a couple of 

924
00:51:21,840 --> 00:51:26,800
things that came to mind in, in 
terms of your keenness for 

925
00:51:26,800 --> 00:51:28,400
running. 
You must, you must be buzzing 

926
00:51:28,400 --> 00:51:31,480
when you like met Roger Black 
and spending time with Roger 

927
00:51:32,880 --> 00:51:35,760
and, and, and some, some of the 
things you were saying made me 

928
00:51:35,760 --> 00:51:38,040
think of the conversations I've 
had with Roger and I've had 

929
00:51:38,040 --> 00:51:43,200
Roger on the podcast and, and 
he's a brilliant mindset to 

930
00:51:43,200 --> 00:51:45,400
listen to you and take in, like 
you said, that sport to 

931
00:51:45,400 --> 00:51:47,760
business. 
And I couldn't help but think of

932
00:51:47,760 --> 00:51:54,280
the other obvious story of Dick 
Fosbury and the Fosbury flop. 

933
00:51:54,800 --> 00:51:56,440
Do you know that? 
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

934
00:51:56,440 --> 00:51:58,120
He. 
Was straddle, wasn't it? 

935
00:51:58,320 --> 00:52:00,520
People jump completely 
different, you think? 

936
00:52:00,800 --> 00:52:04,320
Yeah. 
You think now, and I don't know 

937
00:52:04,320 --> 00:52:08,240
how you know that was many 
decades ago, but you imagine 

938
00:52:08,520 --> 00:52:12,040
showing, I don't know, a 
teenager who's doing athletics 

939
00:52:12,040 --> 00:52:15,840
at school who does jump, does 
the high jump. 

940
00:52:16,120 --> 00:52:18,760
And you showed them a video of 
how people used to jump over a 

941
00:52:18,760 --> 00:52:20,840
high jump before the Fosbury 
Flop. 

942
00:52:21,200 --> 00:52:23,440
They'd be like, what the hell 
are they doing? 

943
00:52:23,440 --> 00:52:26,520
Jumping over it forwards And 
obviously the first time he does

944
00:52:26,520 --> 00:52:27,880
it, runs up and jumps over it 
backwards. 

945
00:52:27,880 --> 00:52:29,600
Everyone would be like, who the 
hell is this idiot? 

946
00:52:29,600 --> 00:52:32,400
Like, what on earth is he doing?
And then obviously the studies 

947
00:52:32,400 --> 00:52:35,080
on it and then how many people 
started doing it? 

948
00:52:35,080 --> 00:52:37,680
And then everyone does it. 
And again, on your point, I 

949
00:52:37,680 --> 00:52:40,720
couldn't help but think of some 
of the strategies I'd share with

950
00:52:40,720 --> 00:52:44,120
the state agents when they're 
like, does that strategy work? 

951
00:52:44,120 --> 00:52:47,880
I'm like, no idea. 
I've just said I've got an idea,

952
00:52:48,200 --> 00:52:51,160
give it a go. 
It might be terrible, or it 

953
00:52:51,160 --> 00:52:54,400
might be a Fosbury Flop where it
then goes on to be the next 

954
00:52:54,400 --> 00:52:57,440
thing that Asians do. 
Yeah, I, I, I think the world 

955
00:52:57,440 --> 00:53:00,680
word culture's sort of bandied 
around quite a lot and a lot of 

956
00:53:00,680 --> 00:53:03,840
people don't really know what, 
how to create culture. 

957
00:53:03,840 --> 00:53:06,840
But, but, but that's a big one 
for me because I think your 

958
00:53:06,840 --> 00:53:11,000
behaviour is so, so, so, so 
infectious. 

959
00:53:11,360 --> 00:53:13,000
And I've probably seen that both
ways. 

960
00:53:13,760 --> 00:53:16,560
I've learnt a lot over the 
years, not just by talking to 

961
00:53:16,560 --> 00:53:19,440
people and asking people 
questions, but you'll sit in a 

962
00:53:19,440 --> 00:53:21,720
meeting or you'll sit across 
from a branch and you'll see 

963
00:53:21,720 --> 00:53:24,480
somebody speak to a customer or 
you'll see the way that they 

964
00:53:24,480 --> 00:53:26,560
chair a meeting. 
And you think, actually that 

965
00:53:26,560 --> 00:53:27,680
worked. 
I like that. 

966
00:53:27,680 --> 00:53:31,680
And you, you find, you find 
yourself replicating that 

967
00:53:31,680 --> 00:53:34,360
behaviour. 
And I see leaders who talk 

968
00:53:34,360 --> 00:53:37,160
about, well, you know, I want a 
culture of, you know, strong 

969
00:53:37,160 --> 00:53:39,480
work ethic and honest 
conversations. 

970
00:53:39,480 --> 00:53:41,680
Well, that's, that's great. 
But those are just words. 

971
00:53:41,680 --> 00:53:44,960
But if as a leader you're not 
seen as somebody who's working 

972
00:53:44,960 --> 00:53:49,480
really hard, and if as a leader 
you're having a lazy numbers 1 

973
00:53:49,480 --> 00:53:54,240
to one with, with your reports 
and not helping them, not giving

974
00:53:54,240 --> 00:53:56,880
them coaching, not genuinely 
caring about them, all they're 

975
00:53:56,880 --> 00:53:59,680
probably going to go and do is 
replicate that and do exactly 

976
00:53:59,680 --> 00:54:01,000
the same with their reports as 
well. 

977
00:54:01,000 --> 00:54:05,720
So I think culture is about the 
way you act, not just words, but

978
00:54:05,960 --> 00:54:09,320
actually walking the walk and, 
and doing that yourself, which, 

979
00:54:09,320 --> 00:54:14,320
which sounds really basic. 
But Libya is so, so infectious 

980
00:54:14,520 --> 00:54:17,400
to those around you, whether 
you're a leader or whether 

981
00:54:17,400 --> 00:54:19,240
you're not a leader. 
You know, even if, even if 

982
00:54:19,240 --> 00:54:22,360
you're a colleague in the 
branch, if, if you, when you, 

983
00:54:22,360 --> 00:54:25,640
when you hear people talk about 
there's a toxic culture here, 

984
00:54:26,000 --> 00:54:28,600
the fact they say that they're 
probably a big part of that 

985
00:54:28,600 --> 00:54:32,640
toxic culture. 
But I, I can, I'm, I can tell 

986
00:54:32,640 --> 00:54:35,760
when I walk into essentially 
businesses within a second, but 

987
00:54:36,440 --> 00:54:38,680
that's a good culture or not. 
You can just, you can just feel 

988
00:54:38,680 --> 00:54:40,600
it. 
And you made me think of a 

989
00:54:40,600 --> 00:54:42,640
couple of things. 
I can't remember who said that. 

990
00:54:42,640 --> 00:54:44,160
I was in the newsletter. 
I was reading. 

991
00:54:44,720 --> 00:54:50,040
When you're observing your 
business, look at the youngest 

992
00:54:50,040 --> 00:54:53,480
or most experienced members of 
your team and how will they act?

993
00:54:53,680 --> 00:54:57,320
Because they're, they're getting
that from someone else, someone 

994
00:54:57,320 --> 00:54:59,200
else more senior than them or 
someone who's been there for 

995
00:54:59,200 --> 00:55:02,120
longer. 
And I also thought of managers 

996
00:55:02,120 --> 00:55:05,560
within the, you know, the 
business I was in where they're 

997
00:55:05,560 --> 00:55:07,760
telling you, yeah, I need to hit
your figures, blah, blah, blah, 

998
00:55:07,760 --> 00:55:09,960
blah. 
It gets to Friday afternoon, 

999
00:55:09,960 --> 00:55:10,720
right? 
See you later. 

1000
00:55:10,720 --> 00:55:13,680
I'm off now. 
You're like, it's all right, I'm

1001
00:55:13,720 --> 00:55:15,520
going to cover for you. 
Am I at the boss rings? 

1002
00:55:16,000 --> 00:55:20,040
But like, where, where are you 
appointment or they never work 

1003
00:55:20,040 --> 00:55:22,120
on weekends, never work on the 
bank holiday. 

1004
00:55:22,440 --> 00:55:25,000
They always take Christmas off. 
And you're like, you're not 

1005
00:55:25,200 --> 00:55:28,720
leading, leading by by example 
there, right? 

1006
00:55:29,520 --> 00:55:30,840
Sure. 
I have a closing tradition on 

1007
00:55:30,840 --> 00:55:32,560
the podcast, which you'll know 
because you've listened to a 

1008
00:55:32,560 --> 00:55:36,600
couple of episodes. 
OK, they I'm going to ask you a 

1009
00:55:36,600 --> 00:55:39,160
random question from Stephen 
Bart, the star of the CEO 

1010
00:55:39,160 --> 00:55:45,680
conversation cards. 
OK, right. 

1011
00:55:45,680 --> 00:55:52,800
The question I want you to 
answer is what is 1 event 

1012
00:55:53,200 --> 00:55:59,080
conversation or experience that 
was your AHA light bulb that 

1013
00:55:59,080 --> 00:56:03,400
influenced or changed your life?
It's a great question. 

1014
00:56:04,720 --> 00:56:08,840
Wow. 
I'm assuming. 

1015
00:56:08,840 --> 00:56:10,640
I mean, this conversation has 
changed your life, right? 

1016
00:56:10,960 --> 00:56:13,520
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. 
The conversation at Swingers. 

1017
00:56:18,000 --> 00:56:18,960
Wow. 
You're going to have to give me 

1018
00:56:18,960 --> 00:56:20,040
a moment. 
You'll probably have to edit 

1019
00:56:20,040 --> 00:56:22,360
this pause out, Simon. 
I don't do Edison Stewart. 

1020
00:56:22,360 --> 00:56:26,040
I'm lazy. 
It could be personal, it could 

1021
00:56:26,040 --> 00:56:28,800
be professional, it could just 
be the first thing that comes to

1022
00:56:28,800 --> 00:56:30,600
your mind rather than 
overthinking it. 

1023
00:56:30,880 --> 00:56:34,960
It could be something really 
like simple that might not even.

1024
00:56:36,480 --> 00:56:40,360
This, this was probably a very 
hard time, but a very valuable 

1025
00:56:40,360 --> 00:56:45,840
lesson and probably probably a 
turning point when I sort of 

1026
00:56:45,840 --> 00:56:48,400
understood leadership and what 
leadership was all about. 

1027
00:56:49,880 --> 00:56:53,640
I was given my first opportunity
to run an area back in 2005. 

1028
00:56:53,640 --> 00:56:57,480
And I think at the time I was 
really successful consultant 

1029
00:56:57,480 --> 00:57:00,600
working out of the Milton Keynes
branch and my area manager had 

1030
00:57:00,600 --> 00:57:03,360
gone on maternity leave. 
So I was given the opportunity 

1031
00:57:03,360 --> 00:57:06,240
to do a hybrid role. 
So you're going to area manage 

1032
00:57:06,320 --> 00:57:11,480
55 consultants and you're still 
going to sign business 2 weeks 

1033
00:57:11,480 --> 00:57:18,520
into my, my boss going on on 
maternity leave, three of those 

1034
00:57:18,520 --> 00:57:23,960
brokers all decided to hand in 
their resignation and all went 

1035
00:57:23,960 --> 00:57:27,840
to go self-employed together and
they happened to be in Stevie 

1036
00:57:27,840 --> 00:57:29,960
kitchen net worth, which was a 
cluster of branches. 

1037
00:57:29,960 --> 00:57:34,080
So it completely obliterated 
this area caused me a huge 

1038
00:57:34,080 --> 00:57:38,280
problem and I thought, well, 
this is my, this is my chance to

1039
00:57:38,280 --> 00:57:42,160
prove myself, you know, while my
boss is on maternity leave, what

1040
00:57:42,160 --> 00:57:47,200
on earth am I going to do now? 
And I, I count myself out of 

1041
00:57:47,200 --> 00:57:50,720
Stevenage branch. 
I think I, I, you know, wrote a 

1042
00:57:50,720 --> 00:57:54,200
bucket load of mortgages that 
month, but I had to go out and 

1043
00:57:54,200 --> 00:57:58,200
recruit my own people. 
And it was probably the best 

1044
00:57:58,200 --> 00:58:02,360
thing that ever happened to me 
because, you know, I surrounded 

1045
00:58:02,360 --> 00:58:06,360
myself with people that were 
like minded to me, people that 

1046
00:58:06,600 --> 00:58:10,200
shared my values and people that
were excited on about this 

1047
00:58:10,200 --> 00:58:14,720
project and our vision to be the
most successful area within the 

1048
00:58:14,720 --> 00:58:18,280
group. 
And I think two of those 

1049
00:58:18,280 --> 00:58:22,320
recruits, this was 20 years ago,
are still with Connell's group 

1050
00:58:22,320 --> 00:58:25,560
now really successful sales 
managers, sales directors. 

1051
00:58:26,640 --> 00:58:28,960
And that was probably the light 
bulb moment that actually this 

1052
00:58:28,960 --> 00:58:32,200
is a people business and this is
about surrounding yourself with 

1053
00:58:32,200 --> 00:58:37,880
the right people. 
Love that I, my first branch 

1054
00:58:37,880 --> 00:58:43,120
manager job was the lady who ran
the branch, went on maternity 

1055
00:58:43,120 --> 00:58:45,560
leave and it's like, right, 
you've got an opportunity now to

1056
00:58:45,560 --> 00:58:48,800
go run that branch as a 
designate, see how you get on. 

1057
00:58:49,120 --> 00:58:51,880
And it came towards the end of 
the year, like absolutely 

1058
00:58:51,880 --> 00:58:55,240
smashed it because I was just 
fuelled by adrenaline and a 

1059
00:58:55,240 --> 00:58:59,000
point to prove. 
And then she didn't come back. 

1060
00:58:59,000 --> 00:59:01,040
I think she was maybe pregnant 
with her second kid, said, yeah,

1061
00:59:01,040 --> 00:59:03,840
I'm not coming back. 
And then the, the, the job was 

1062
00:59:03,840 --> 00:59:06,640
mine. 
So I, I resonate with that sort 

1063
00:59:06,640 --> 00:59:08,960
of light bulb moment. 
Well, it's been a, a brilliant 

1064
00:59:08,960 --> 00:59:12,840
conversation. 
Stuart thoroughly enjoyed it and

1065
00:59:12,840 --> 00:59:14,800
it's good to have a conversation
outside of our swingers 

1066
00:59:14,800 --> 00:59:16,440
environment as well. 
Yeah. 

1067
00:59:16,760 --> 00:59:19,240
And let's. 
See you at the next event. 

1068
00:59:20,960 --> 00:59:23,560
Yeah, for everyone listening, 
please do like review, 

1069
00:59:23,560 --> 00:59:26,760
subscribe, follow, share. 
Do go check out Stuart on 

1070
00:59:26,760 --> 00:59:29,280
LinkedIn if you curious to find 
out more about everything he's 

1071
00:59:29,280 --> 00:59:31,120
been talking about. 
And that just leaves me to say 

1072
00:59:31,120 --> 00:59:33,200
it's Stuart. 
Thank you very much for being an

1073
00:59:33,200 --> 00:59:34,440
amazing guest. 
Really appreciate it. 

1074
00:59:34,960 --> 00:59:36,000
Thanks. 
Lovely talking to you. 

1075
00:59:36,240 --> 00:59:36,520
See you.