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Hello and welcome to Opening the
Gates to more listings for 

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Estate agents with me, Simon 
Gates. 

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I'm delighted to be joined today
by Mr. Shane Harris. 

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Shane, thank you very much for 
joining me. 

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Thank. 
You for having me mate. 

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Much appreciated. 
Shame about Liverpool in the 

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background. 
You haven't said that at all 

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before. 
We had for me Shane for to give 

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you an understanding for behind 
the scenes of opening the gates 

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to more listings. 
We're having a lovely pleasant 

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conversation. 
And then once I hit record, he 

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mugs me off. 
So I did want to say when we 

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were whatsapping earlier, there 
was like a blue heart emoji and 

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I was going to sarcastically 
comment being like, I hope 

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that's not for Chelsea or 
something. 

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Is it Chelsea? 
No. 

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I'm a United. 
Fan Oh so oh OK Why was that 

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blue? 
Because you think City will win 

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the league? 
I think I actually do think City

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will win the league. 
Yeah, I actually do think City 

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will win the league. 
But no, I'd just like to share a

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bit of love between blokes. 
Blokes then tend to do things 

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like that. 
We're too macho. 

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So yeah, I'd like to send a 
little bit of heart out here and

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there where I can mate. 
Yeah. 

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Right, so I said tune forward. 
Too romantic as well on it. 

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So. 
So I said before we hit record, 

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I can go off piece. 
I'm going to go straight off 

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piece now because this certainly
isn't my notes. 

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But you, you've touched on a 
point now I think it is mental 

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health Awareness Week on the 
week commencing May 11th. 

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Not quite sure exactly when this
is going to go out. 

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And I sit on the board for the 
Boys Club, which is a Facebook 

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group for males in the 
essentially industry and mental 

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health in males is a taboo 
subject. 

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It's still not spoken about 
enough. 

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You've got brilliant people like
Rob Brady who obviously know 

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well who champions it. 
And I love everything Rob does. 

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But you launched your business 
nine years ago and it couldn't 

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have been plain sailing that 
whole 9 years. 

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So what's, what's that been 
like, if you don't mind me 

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asking, as a business owner? 
And your like your mental health

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in that time. 
Yeah, Well, well, first and 

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foremost, I, I, I'm fortunate. 
I don't see myself as somebody 

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who struggles with mental 
health. 

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So it's really difficult to talk
on a topic that I've got no real

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experience on other than the 
fact of like, things are hard 

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for everybody. 
Don't get me wrong here. 

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But like, I, I wouldn't say I'm 
the type of person that really 

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does suffer. 
I've had moments in time over 

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the years where I felt 
particularly down. 

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But I know some people who 
really do suffer with mental 

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health. 
And so hats off to you for for 

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being a champion and ambassador 
of, of talking about things like

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that because I think it is a 
really important issue. 

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I just think I'm fortunately 
touch with one of those people 

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who is naturally optimistically 
glass half full. 

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And so nothing really ever gets 
me down too much. 

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I'm very fortunate in that 
sense. 

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But yeah, it certainly wasn't 
plain sailing and it hasn't. 

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I mean, it's nine years now and 
it still isn't plain sailing. 

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I think the the roller coaster 
ride of business is a forever 

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thing, but that's the beauty of 
the game, right? 

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Like it's a business is an 
infinite game. 

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It doesn't stop until you get 
off the roller coaster. 

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So you keep going and keep 
riding the wave, but you have 

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ups and downs. 
It's it's never without its 

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challenges, but it's overall, I 
would say it's been a, it's been

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a tough task to get to where 
we've got to. 

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But it certainly probably isn't 
like the whole doom and gloom 

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fear monger type thing that I 
think a lot of the Internet 

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might have you feel or the 
negative side of the the 

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Internet might have you feel 
where it's like, look, if you 

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want to run a business, you want
to start this up. 

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There's sacrifices, don't get me
wrong. 

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But if you're the type of person
that is doesn't see sacrifice as

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a problem and you see these 
issues as just the cost of 

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entry. 
This is just the cost of entry, 

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right? 
Like if you, if you position it 

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in the way of if you want to 
play the game, this is what it 

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costs to play the game, then you
know that that's what you're 

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already in. 
If you're unaware of that's what

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it's going to take, then yeah, 
it might take its toll on you, 

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but it's not for everybody. 
And if it isn't for you, then, 

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well, statistically it's not for
everybody. 

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And so if it isn't for you, then
that's fine too. 

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But on the flip side of that, 
actually this raises a good 

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point there, Simon. 
I think there's a, there's a big

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like push towards like everyone 
should run their own business 

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and everybody should be their 
own boss and everybody should do

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their own thing and have to 
like, it isn't for everybody. 

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I mean, you'll know from running
your podcast business here how 

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difficult it is to keep going. 
And that's all right as well. 

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You can just work for somebody 
else, but you haven't got to go 

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through all of that stress. 
But yeah, it's, it's it's been 

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difficult. 
But to get to the answer of a 

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long winded answer. 
I'm I'm naturally an optimistic 

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person and so I probably haven't
felt the gravity of it or 

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allowed it to overwhelm me too 
much. 

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I think your your optimistic 
outlook is why I was keen to get

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you on the podcast and have this
conversation. 

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I think I said to you when I 
first slid into your DMS on 

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LinkedIn was I'd heard you speak
a few times, I think it was on 

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the World Class real estate 
podcast with Mark and Ian. 

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I think I'd heard you speak at 
an estate agency X event on a 

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panel. 
And then I think I'd also seen 

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you speak on Mac Geeks is the 
State Agent Showdown podcast. 

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And each time I was like, I need
to get this guy on my podcast. 

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And then, you know, it's like 
life gets in the way. 

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You get busy. 
And then I'm looking at my phone

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now. 
And you put that this post out 

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on LinkedIn saying this week I 
celebrated nine years in 

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business. 
Here are 9 lessons I've learned,

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mostly the hard way. 
And I read through and I was 

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like, I freaking love this. 
And I was like, right, he needs 

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to come on the podcast and here 
we are. 

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That's very kind of you. 
Yeah, very kind of you. 

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So yeah, it is mostly the hard 
way as well, a lot of those 

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lessons because the when you are
optimistic, there's an air of 

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like blind, I'd say arrogance 
without intending to be that 

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way, you know, like, of course, 
like it is, why would I not be 

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able to do this? 
Everything's worked out for me 

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in my life so far. 
This is going to work out as 

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well like. 
Well, that, that you said it's a

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blind arrogance, you and your 
and I hope this doesn't come 

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across the wrong way when I've 
gone. 

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Oh, yeah, shame, blind 
arrogance. 

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Let's go. 
But you and your business 

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partner, Mark, right? 
Yes. 

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Correct. 
Yeah. 

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So I was watching a video from 
your website earlier today in 

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preparation for this and you 
guys went for like 1 beer and 

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then the rest is history, I 
think is the words you used in 

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that video. 
Yeah, Danny, I was. 

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Was that a bit of maybe blind 
arrogance or naivety there? 

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Which is somewhat blessing? 
Yeah, 100%, Yeah. 

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Sometimes like the fact that 
you, you, you don't know, they'd

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say ignorance is bliss, right. 
And in often times in life that 

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is true because I hadn't had any
experience of, although 

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fortunately Mark had had 
experience. 

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So Mark could run a business 
just down the road from where we

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are here in Braintree. 
And there was 4 directors there 

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in that business. 
And it's difficult enough making

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decisions with two people, let 
alone 4 people. 

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And obviously, we have Tracy as 
our business partner in 

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lettings, which she has full 
autonomy and runs that company. 

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So there's very little we have 
to argue about there. 

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But in the day-to-day of sales, 
we sort of butt heads. 

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But the fact that I hadn't had 
that prior experience and just 

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thought, yeah, cool. 
Like we can, I know estate 

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agency Marks run a business, 
combine those two things 

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together, then we can run in the
state NC business, surely. 

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Sorry about the noise there. 
We can run in the state NC 

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business, surely. 
But it just isn't as simple as 

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that. 
But it had that. 

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If I had I'd known the things 
I'd known now, I probably would 

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have been put off by it in all 
honesty and thought, do you know

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what was going? 
It's going to be hard, there's 

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going to be headaches and we're 
going to disagree and maybe I'll

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do it on my own and, you know, 
but having partners around you 

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is invaluable. 
I think it's made such a 

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difference. 
Sorry, Mike. 

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But on on if I go back to the 
LinkedIn post, so you have 

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business partners there at the 
at the end of your post, you 

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said after 9 points bonus get a 
coach or mentor. 

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You'll accelerate your learning 
and minimise your mistakes. 

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So at what point did you get a 
coach or mentor? 

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So we had early days on. 
We had. 

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So I used to work at Spicer 
Heart. 

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Well, I started my career at 
Spicer Heart late, I think 2009 

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ish from memory. 
And at Spicer Heart, there was a

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guy there you may know, Russell 
Jervis. 

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Love Russell? 
Yeah. 

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Wonderful guy. 
Yeah. 

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And Russell has got energy for 
days like he's the most and 

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he'll ever meet. 
Like he's always smiling. 

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His gloves is more than half 
full, like it's almost entirely 

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full unless something Uber bad 
has happened. 

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And Russell was one of the first
people in agency that made me 

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believe in myself. 
Went to I went to AI, got a 

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manager job when I was 24. 
Way too soon, wasn't good 

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enough, didn't know what I was 
doing, thought I was a good 

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estate agent. 
So of course I'm going to make a

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good manager. 
That whole like ignorance is 

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bliss arrogance thing. 
Now where you think well of of 

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course I can do this. 
Why would I not be able to do 

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this? 
Took over an office, felt like I

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was massively out of my depth. 
Then as a manager, you normally 

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go to, you get your budget. 
At the end of the year, you set 

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your budget out, you go to head 
office, you meet the CEO, sit 

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down with Paul Russell, managing
director, and you look at how 

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your budget for the year is 
going to work and how you're 

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going to make money. 
You present it to the room and 

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you leave that room hoping that 
you've done a good job and they 

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agree or you've done a really 
poor job and they're looking at 

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you thinking, what the hell have
we got this guy in this position

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for? 
And I'd done my budget, put it 

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together. 
I hadn't done one before. 

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And I was really a bit nervous, 
you know, going to the head 

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office thinking I've got to sit 
in front of the CEO and the 

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managing director and I don't 
know what I'm doing. 

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Really presented the budget, 
left the room. 

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And I thought that was terrible.
Like that was awful. 

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And then I got an e-mail from 
Russell saying, just wanted to 

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say brilliant budget meeting 
best of the day, well done. 

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Looking forward to see how you 
do. 

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And I was like, of course he's 
going to say that. 

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Wants to make his managers feel 
a bit better. 

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He's really good at the culture 
stuff. 

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Emailed him back saying thanks 
for us, like you didn't need to 

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say that, but appreciate you 
giving me a bit of a pat on the 

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00:10:01,760 --> 00:10:04,240
back. 
And he replied saying, no, no, I

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mean what I say. 
Best budget of the day, really 

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well done. 
Hope you have a good year. 

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And I thought, oh, but maybe I 
can do it. 

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And that sort of spurred on the 
real belief in myself that I 

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could go a bit further in the 
industry. 

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And so to answer your question 
about mentors as well, I was 

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going with this, sorry to go 
from a tangent, was that 

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Russell, when I realised he was 
leaving, Spicer Hart was the 

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first person I reached out to to
say, look, I don't know what 

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you're doing, where you're 
going, but it would be great to 

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have you as part of this 
business in some way, shape or 

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form. 
I'm sure you've got other plans 

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and you may have sort of 
agreements in your contract 

226
00:10:43,040 --> 00:10:45,840
where you can't work in agency 
per SE, but if we could do 

227
00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:47,000
anything together, it'd be 
wonderful. 

228
00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:51,040
And he sort of reached back and 
said, yeah, we'd love to work 

229
00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:55,960
with you guys and came on board 
as like a coach, mentor and 

230
00:10:55,960 --> 00:10:58,560
helped us develop the business 
sort of the first couple of 

231
00:10:58,560 --> 00:11:01,000
years in really. 
And he's been brilliant for us 

232
00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:04,160
ever since. 
So a Leeds fan has helped a Man 

233
00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:06,040
United fans of business? 
Is that what you're telling me? 

234
00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:11,600
We've got our differences aside.
Yeah, that's correct. 

235
00:11:11,640 --> 00:11:14,280
Yeah. 
I am, I love, I love that 

236
00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:18,800
because it it's like the amount 
of Times Now I've heard from 

237
00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:21,920
people where it's that other 
person who believed in them 

238
00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:24,880
before they believed in 
themselves and that person for 

239
00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:27,440
me, you saying of Russell 
Jarvis, Matt Giggs was that 

240
00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:30,560
person for me, mate. 
So my background, I was in the 

241
00:11:30,560 --> 00:11:34,880
state agency from 16 to 29. 
I was running a branch doing, I 

242
00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:38,480
was doing really well, but I was
like something missing here and 

243
00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:42,160
I wasn't getting what I needed 
from within the four walls of 

244
00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:44,320
business. 
My secretary used to work with 

245
00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:47,760
Matt at Countrywide and said 
you'll get on amazingly well 

246
00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:50,280
with Matt. 
And I am one of only two people 

247
00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:53,720
who's ever paid Matt out of 
their own pocket as an employed 

248
00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:56,000
person. 
And when the bill came through 

249
00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:58,000
and there's VAT on top of it and
when he's coached me, I was 

250
00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:01,640
like, fuck it now, didn't expect
that. 

251
00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:05,160
And then and then, you know, 
I've, I've got an amazing 

252
00:12:05,160 --> 00:12:07,560
relationship with him now where 
we've worked together. 

253
00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:10,560
And it's kind of like the going 
back to what you said at the 

254
00:12:10,560 --> 00:12:13,720
start, like you're working so 
hard that your mentors become 

255
00:12:13,720 --> 00:12:16,600
like your business partners, if 
that makes sense. 100% That's a 

256
00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:17,840
really special character 
actually. 

257
00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:19,840
I think in the industry we've 
got to give him his flowers 

258
00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:22,640
whilst he's doing what he's 
doing because he is another one 

259
00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:24,720
of those people that you're 
around him and his energy is 

260
00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:29,400
contagious. 100% He he also 
makes you feel like you're 

261
00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:34,080
capable of doing anything in a 
really he's got a lot of 

262
00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:36,320
humility. 
He does it in a real way where 

263
00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:39,600
he shows a lot of humility that 
is like, I'm not better than I 

264
00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:42,360
was talking weirdly somebody 
else about this this morning on 

265
00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:45,760
LinkedIn and he was talking to 
me about coaching and what 

266
00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:47,960
should I do and where do I go? 
And I said it's a lot like 

267
00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:49,800
therapy for me. 
And I don't know if you've ever 

268
00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:52,800
done any therapy yourself, but 
when you go through therapy, 

269
00:12:53,080 --> 00:12:59,040
it's a real like hierarchical, 
like I'm, you come here and I'll

270
00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:01,960
fix your problems and I've got 
all the answers and you're 

271
00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:03,840
flawed and I'm not. 
And if they've got that sort of 

272
00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:07,160
feeling to it, when you sit in a
room and they sort of quiz you 

273
00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:09,760
back and forth until you find 
the right person, and then the 

274
00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:12,840
right person makes you feel 
like, well, it's not just me, is

275
00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:14,800
it? 
Everybody has these problems. 

276
00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:17,240
And like, I can talk to you 
about it. 

277
00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:19,200
You can make me feel better and 
you can make me a better person 

278
00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:20,800
from it. 
Matt does that, I think, too, 

279
00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:24,400
agents in a in a way that shows 
huge amounts of humility. 

280
00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:26,800
He knows that he hasn't got all 
of the answers, but he's got 

281
00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:28,600
enough of the answers that are 
going to help you get to where 

282
00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:31,160
you want to get to, depending 
on, of course, your level. 

283
00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:32,720
So yeah, shouts out to Matt. 
I didn't know you had a 

284
00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:34,480
relationship with him, but yeah,
I like Matt a lot. 

285
00:13:34,720 --> 00:13:38,160
Yeah, no huge relationship with 
with Matt, but that's enough for

286
00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:39,320
kissing his ass, so we need to 
move. 

287
00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:43,480
You've seen this, Yeah. 
From that now, so you've already

288
00:13:43,480 --> 00:13:47,240
touched on Spicer Heart. 
So it wasn't it wasn't straight 

289
00:13:47,240 --> 00:13:49,760
from Spicer Heart to launching 
Harrison Woodright. 

290
00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:52,080
There was sequence in there as 
well. 

291
00:13:52,400 --> 00:13:56,920
So what is as I can be guilty on
this podcast of, of bashing 

292
00:13:57,520 --> 00:14:01,240
corporates in terms of being too
rigid and not agile enough. 

293
00:14:01,240 --> 00:14:04,680
So just to give some positivity 
and again, some like Matt came 

294
00:14:04,680 --> 00:14:06,800
from a corporate background. 
So what? 

295
00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:09,240
What are the things you that you
still have instilled in you 

296
00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:11,920
today that you would have learnt
when you're at the likes of 

297
00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:14,040
Spicer Heart and Working the 
Sequence groups are two of the 

298
00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:15,560
biggest organisations in the 
country. 

299
00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:19,760
Yeah, they are. 
They're fantastic training based

300
00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:22,000
operations. 
I think if you look around the 

301
00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:26,960
industry from the independents 
that are thriving, 99% of them 

302
00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:29,040
have probably come from that 
background. 

303
00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:33,200
They're training infrastructure 
and this is probably where I 

304
00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:36,960
feel that we've done the 
industry a bit of a disservice. 

305
00:14:37,240 --> 00:14:39,600
As independents we should 
probably get a lot better than 

306
00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:41,640
that. 
Well, I say we I'll talk for our

307
00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:45,600
business specifically is you 
come out of that structure, 

308
00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:48,760
they've they've got incredible 
until the last it's probably 

309
00:14:48,760 --> 00:14:53,160
12-18 months or so. 
We haven't put enough value on 

310
00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:56,760
structure and corporates have 
incredible structure. 

311
00:14:57,080 --> 00:14:59,480
When you infrastructure into a 
business into an independent 

312
00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:02,320
business immediately you hear 
the people go, this feels a bit 

313
00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:06,160
corporate as if that's a 
problem. 

314
00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:08,160
Like not everything in corporate
is bad. 

315
00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:11,000
Otherwise they wouldn't work. 
Like structure and training is 

316
00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:15,320
one of the best things that 
corporate can offer a new, you 

317
00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:21,280
can code from, as I did, a 1819 
year old selling coffee at Costa

318
00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:25,720
to a manager of a branch at 24. 
But that's a short window of 

319
00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:28,640
time really. 
Yeah, but it's because they have

320
00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:31,600
structure and training. 
And I think where we've, we've 

321
00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:33,360
grown as independents, we've 
taken all of that stuff and 

322
00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:35,000
we've gone great. 
We're really, really good estate

323
00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:36,720
agents. 
We know how to win business, we 

324
00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:38,840
know how to sell houses, we know
how to market and all this sort 

325
00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:40,120
of stuff. 
We combine all of that with our 

326
00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:43,640
natural flair and enthusiasm for
the job and we'll be fantastic. 

327
00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:47,520
And then you get to a level and 
you go, yeah, that's great. 

328
00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:49,880
And then you start to employ 
people and you don't do as much 

329
00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:52,840
of the day-to-day stuff anymore.
And you go, well, how come 

330
00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:54,120
they're not as good as me at 
that? 

331
00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:56,120
And like, you know, they sit 
next to me all day and they 

332
00:15:56,120 --> 00:15:58,600
probably and no, OK, well, yeah,
fair enough. 

333
00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:00,280
And then you get a little bit 
big and you ask, well, we've got

334
00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:03,600
a lot more people now and they 
actually need to be good. 

335
00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:05,720
And what if that person? 
And then you soon realise that 

336
00:16:06,640 --> 00:16:09,480
you can't build a business 
around people. 

337
00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:13,200
Processes have to outweigh 
individual brilliance every 

338
00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:16,400
single time because you become 
people dependent if Simon joins 

339
00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:18,440
the business. 
And then Simon goes, I'm off to 

340
00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:20,520
Australia for a year because I 
want to go travelling. 

341
00:16:20,760 --> 00:16:22,840
But we've built all of our 
listing process around how 

342
00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:25,920
brilliant Simon is individually.
But then we don't really have a 

343
00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:29,240
business. 
We've got Simon and luck that he

344
00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:31,640
doesn't leave. 
And so you have to get to a 

345
00:16:31,640 --> 00:16:33,480
point where you look at that 
corporate structure and go, 

346
00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:35,640
well, how they don't get lucky 
every time. 

347
00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:38,160
Like how do they always bring 
people in and they end up being 

348
00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:40,600
good? 
How do they consistently keep 

349
00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:43,600
people hitting targets and 
moving forward and thriving? 

350
00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:46,720
Like, yes, there are things that
people don't agree with 

351
00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:49,360
corporate structure about. 
And a lot of that as you get 

352
00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:51,680
lost in the numbers, which is 
hard to do by the way, when 

353
00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:53,840
you're grown an independent 
business is make people feel 

354
00:16:53,840 --> 00:16:54,960
like they're not lost in the 
numbers. 

355
00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:56,960
But oh, and just another number 
here. 

356
00:16:56,960 --> 00:16:58,720
There's a glass ceiling. 
You know, I get all of that 

357
00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:02,480
about corporate and sometimes 
it's a little bit everything is 

358
00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:05,839
about the pound note and need to
lose a little bit of that. 

359
00:17:05,839 --> 00:17:08,560
But they certainly have 
incredible structure and 

360
00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:11,480
incredible training, which if a 
lot more independent took 

361
00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:15,240
seriously, we'd developed better
people in the industry and the 

362
00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:18,839
industry itself would thrive 
because I think we neglect that 

363
00:17:18,839 --> 00:17:21,079
side of things because we're 
individually brilliant and go, 

364
00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:22,880
I'll sit next to me and you'll 
learn it. 

365
00:17:23,599 --> 00:17:24,960
That's not training people 
really. 

366
00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:27,280
That's hoping that people sit 
around, absorb what you're doing

367
00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:29,400
and move on. 
So you've got to give corporate 

368
00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:33,680
credit for how they build 
anybody who's come from any 

369
00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:35,320
background into a really good 
estate agent. 

370
00:17:35,720 --> 00:17:38,720
Yeah, I think it's spot on. 
I could I could reel off so many

371
00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:42,640
people I know, even just locally
to me who were in Countrywide in

372
00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:44,960
their heyday and then have gone 
on to launch their own 

373
00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:46,800
businesses. 
And every time I ask that sort 

374
00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:49,760
of question on the podcast, 
there's a repetitive answer 

375
00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:54,440
around you look at the the 
business people they've bread 

376
00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:56,600
from it, who then gone on to 
launch successful business 

377
00:17:56,600 --> 00:17:59,520
himself, who are following some 
of that some of that structure. 

378
00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:03,840
I couldn't help but think I used
to work at home search, so prop 

379
00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:05,920
tech company. 
And I was there when it was a 

380
00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:11,120
super fun, sexy start up, like 
pre revenue where we didn't, but

381
00:18:11,120 --> 00:18:13,240
you imagine like a slide in the 
office kind of vibe. 

382
00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:16,520
Then we went and got a multi 
£1,000,000 investment. 

383
00:18:16,520 --> 00:18:18,640
And then all of a sudden it's 
like, yeah, you need to do this 

384
00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:20,440
bit of admin. 
Well, that's not why I joined 

385
00:18:20,440 --> 00:18:21,160
this place. 
Yeah. 

386
00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:23,680
Yes, really. 
I wanted to, I wanted to get 

387
00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:26,320
away from and it's like, yeah, 
but we're now going to the next,

388
00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:28,840
the next level. 
And I I've found it myself. 

389
00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:31,920
So I'm in like my consultancy 
businesses, but you're like, 

390
00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:33,120
right. 
I want to like have this 

391
00:18:33,120 --> 00:18:34,640
lifestyle business sort of 
thing. 

392
00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:36,880
And then I have business 
interests elsewhere. 

393
00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:39,760
I'm like, hang on a minute. 
This is there needs to be more 

394
00:18:39,760 --> 00:18:43,440
structure in, in these things. 
So now I completely get where 

395
00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:45,400
where you come from. 
So you am I right in saying 

396
00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:47,280
you've just launched a fourth 
office? 

397
00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:48,640
Yes, correct. 
Yeah. 

398
00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:52,680
So I appreciate you've only just
launched the 4th office, but the

399
00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:55,960
question I'm going to try and 
ask is what's what's been the 

400
00:18:55,960 --> 00:19:00,360
toughest, the first one going 
from one to two or two to three 

401
00:19:00,360 --> 00:19:04,080
or three to four? 
First one was the easiest one. 

402
00:19:04,360 --> 00:19:09,840
Yeah, yeah, because it was, it 
was just me, Mark and one other 

403
00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:13,880
employee. 
And when you're doing it 

404
00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:19,640
yourself in that way, like there
is no, there is no stress about 

405
00:19:19,640 --> 00:19:22,720
anything else going on. 
All I had to worry about I me 

406
00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:25,280
was putting house in the market.
Mark would worry about how the 

407
00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:27,920
office was running and Marcus 
was the chap who was with us at 

408
00:19:27,920 --> 00:19:30,120
the start would worry about 
picking up the viewings and 

409
00:19:30,120 --> 00:19:33,040
generating a bit of business. 
And it was just fun really. 

410
00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:36,320
We were like just mates working 
with each other, having a bit of

411
00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:37,760
fun. 
It was working. 

412
00:19:37,760 --> 00:19:40,400
And of course you have a natural
advantage because it's your name

413
00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:42,120
above the door and you're going 
out sending the services. 

414
00:19:42,120 --> 00:19:44,720
You're going to be way more 
passionate about your business 

415
00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:47,720
than anybody else. 
And there was no turning back 

416
00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:50,120
for us. 
It was either we make this work 

417
00:19:50,120 --> 00:19:53,320
or we have all of this money we 
owe people who have lend us the 

418
00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:57,760
money to open the business and 
there is no out like we don't 

419
00:19:57,760 --> 00:20:00,480
get to leave. 
So there was just look forward 

420
00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:03,520
and make it happen. 
I think the the second one was 

421
00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:05,800
the second one was actually 
probably the hardest. 

422
00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:12,160
Yeah, the second one we we open 
Whitam second and that was 

423
00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:15,520
probably the hardest in in the 
sense of it was a different 

424
00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:21,280
town, so. 
It was a cold start and we 

425
00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:26,160
didn't have, we didn't have 
enough structure within the 

426
00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:27,960
business that really allowed us 
to go well. 

427
00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:32,960
If we're not working in either 
of them, how do we make sure Bow

428
00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:36,480
Farm running? 
So the learning curve of that, 

429
00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:39,720
it was really, really difficult 
of do we do we need to be over 

430
00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:41,800
there all the time? 
Like do we need to be a culture 

431
00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:43,720
all of the time? 
Like one of us need to be there,

432
00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:46,240
both of us need to be there. 
Who does the culture piece? 

433
00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:49,240
Who does the numbers piece? 
That was a really difficult 

434
00:20:49,240 --> 00:20:52,480
learning curve. 
Figured it out the hard way. 

435
00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:56,720
And then three was a little bit 
easier and hopefully four. 

436
00:20:56,720 --> 00:21:00,120
We had our courtly meeting last 
yesterday. 

437
00:21:00,120 --> 00:21:02,680
We had a courtly meeting 
yesterday and the manager, 

438
00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:04,400
Elliot, who was running culture,
was going over there and said, 

439
00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:08,960
like, my goal is to be the first
branch who opens up and turns a 

440
00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:11,920
profit in Year 1. 
And we now have a better formula

441
00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:15,480
to do that. 
And because we've done it twice 

442
00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:18,400
before. 
So yeah, the second one weirdly 

443
00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:19,760
was, yeah, was the hardest, 
yeah. 

444
00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:24,080
I thought if I was to put a bet 
on what your answer would be 

445
00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:27,440
before you answer. 
I typically see people say go 

446
00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:29,160
from 1:00 to 2:00. 
And I think for the reasons you 

447
00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:34,440
said in terms of like being 
between the two offices and I, I

448
00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:36,800
subscribe to a lot of emails, 
listen to podcasts, watch 

449
00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:39,440
webinars, etcetera. 
I get these emails from I think 

450
00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:42,960
her name is pronounced Leila 
Hall Mosey, but as in the other 

451
00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:45,240
half of Alex Hall Mosey. 
And the e-mail, I think this 

452
00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:48,880
week was something along the 
lines of like one of the things 

453
00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:52,640
she said was around culture of 
being like, what are your people

454
00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:53,880
within the four walls of 
business? 

455
00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:57,840
Like when you step outside? 
And then also judge it on the 

456
00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:00,960
most junior members of the team,
because they're going to 

457
00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:02,920
replicate what they see from 
their seniors. 

458
00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:06,680
So observe the juniors actions. 
So if a juniors are, I don't 

459
00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:11,120
know, the top buttons undone and
ties pulled down and I don't 

460
00:22:11,120 --> 00:22:13,480
know, their shoes are not 
polished or what, or they're not

461
00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:15,080
clean shaven. 
When we said to be clean, 

462
00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:18,080
whatever it might be, it's like,
well, that's they've they've 

463
00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:19,960
seen that from somewhere else 
where other standards have 

464
00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:21,520
slipped and they're they're 
following that. 

465
00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:24,160
So kind of I thought of that 
when you're saying it. 

466
00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:25,720
And then on that, did you say 
his name was Elliot? 

467
00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:28,760
Elliot, yeah. 
Elliot has been running one of 

468
00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:33,800
the other branches and you've 
launched a a new branch and he's

469
00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:35,400
gone to run that. 
Yes. 

470
00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:38,360
How did that, if you don't mind 
me asking, how did that 

471
00:22:38,360 --> 00:22:40,880
conversation go? 
Did he say to you, I want to go?

472
00:22:41,120 --> 00:22:42,240
Yeah. 
You did. 

473
00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:44,120
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
I think I put that on LinkedIn a

474
00:22:44,120 --> 00:22:45,160
couple of weeks ago. 
I thought I saw. 

475
00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:49,200
Something like that, yeah. 
Yeah, he was, he's he's the 

476
00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:51,240
Colchester was obviously our 
baby. 

477
00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:53,520
So a difficult office for 
anybody to run. 

478
00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:56,680
Ash, who's the manager of that 
now has, has found that that to 

479
00:22:56,680 --> 00:23:00,720
be the case because it is also 
the the, the biggest as far as 

480
00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:03,200
the numbers go. 
And so there's a lot of more 

481
00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:05,080
people to look after. 
There's a lot more expectation 

482
00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:06,960
there. 
And Elliot kind of just said, 

483
00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:08,760
well, look, I, I think I'll 
probably take in the office as 

484
00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:11,880
far as I can take it. 
And I would like a new 

485
00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:13,520
challenge. 
Everybody needs a bit of a right

486
00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:15,640
in their life, right? 
And so he'd been there for five 

487
00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:19,520
years, I think, sat in the same 
seat in the same 4 walls with 

488
00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:23,240
relatively the same people, be 
it change here and there, but 

489
00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:26,120
the same job role. 
And he just said, look, I'm from

490
00:23:26,120 --> 00:23:28,520
the area which is tendering the 
4th office where we've opened 

491
00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:30,360
up. 
I know the area, I'm from the 

492
00:23:30,360 --> 00:23:32,840
area, I've got family in the 
area, I've got relations in the 

493
00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:34,440
area. 
I know I've never done a cold 

494
00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:37,080
start before. 
But listen, I think I can make 

495
00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:40,240
this work, you know, I know your
expansion plans. 

496
00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:41,760
We know you want to grow the 
business out. 

497
00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:44,000
I think I can do it. 
And I think I can take that 

498
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:45,560
office and I can make that 
business work. 

499
00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:48,640
So here's my budget. 
Here's what I think I can do. 

500
00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:52,280
I think the numbers make sense. 
Let's give it a go. 

501
00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:55,240
Yeah, let's give it a go. 
And. 

502
00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:57,400
How on earth do you find people 
like that? 

503
00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:00,240
Because every, every business I 
speak to, it's always people are

504
00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:02,160
such an issue. 
So how how are you finding 

505
00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:04,400
people like Elliot and and 
retaining them? 

506
00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:08,400
Because it would be so easy for 
someone like that, that boredom 

507
00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:11,360
to set in or be unfulfilled. 
And we lose so many great people

508
00:24:11,360 --> 00:24:13,800
from this industry because of 
that sort of thing. 

509
00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:17,200
But you've you've grown an 
environment where they're coming

510
00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:19,480
to you and saying, I want to 
stay here and grow. 

511
00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:22,280
So yeah, what's what's a bit of 
a secret or formula behind that?

512
00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:24,640
Well, we're really, we're really
tight of the leadership team. 

513
00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:28,000
So like Elliot, Steve, Paul, 
Ash, now Justine who works in 

514
00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:29,840
that leadership team on the 
sales side, obviously we've got 

515
00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:32,400
lettings, Tracy Collarloo. 
We have a really good 

516
00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:35,120
relationship. 
Like we meet every week, those 

517
00:24:35,120 --> 00:24:37,000
guys, we have an hour and a half
meeting every week. 

518
00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:40,560
We have an open candidness of 
what are the issues, what do we 

519
00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:42,480
need to resolve? 
And everybody gets to, as I 

520
00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:46,240
said, we did our Courtney 
meeting yesterday, Tuesday, and 

521
00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:49,840
we get to talk about anything 
that we feel is important or 

522
00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:51,680
anything that we feel is going 
to cause us an issue later down 

523
00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:54,760
the line. 
And the candidness is open to 

524
00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:59,120
critique of me, critique of Mark
like yesterday's session, half 

525
00:24:59,120 --> 00:25:02,160
an hour that was spent on here's
how you can improve, Shane. 

526
00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:05,080
Here's how you can. 
And you just don't get that at 

527
00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:07,920
other companies. 
And I think when people are able

528
00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:10,240
to tell you honestly how they 
feel instead of tiptoeing around

529
00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:12,040
the issue, you get to hear the 
issue. 

530
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:13,760
And if you hear the issue, you 
get to resolve it. 

531
00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:16,320
You lose a lot of people because
you never really get to hear the

532
00:25:16,360 --> 00:25:17,520
issue. 
And don't be wrong. 

533
00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:20,800
Like we lose people, members of 
staff within the business, of 

534
00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:23,960
course, because I and Mark don't
have those same relationships 

535
00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:26,080
with people. 
And you hope that the managers 

536
00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:27,760
would have the same 
relationships with their teams. 

537
00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:30,360
But people come and go for for 
different reasons. 

538
00:25:30,360 --> 00:25:32,680
But I'd like to think that 
everybody in the business feels 

539
00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:35,920
like they could say honestly how
they felt at any given moment in

540
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:38,040
time. 
And I think having that culture 

541
00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:40,400
builds trust. 
And when you can trust people, 

542
00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:42,400
you tend to want to stay around 
those sorts of people. 

543
00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:45,720
So yeah, those guys are they are
exceptional or what they do. 

544
00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:49,480
And he actually, funnily enough,
he was the first person we 

545
00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:52,200
offered a job to when we opened 
the business and he turned us 

546
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:54,960
down and said no at the time, 
there's too much of A risk for 

547
00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:56,360
him. 
So he joined us like 2 years 

548
00:25:56,360 --> 00:25:59,160
later when we'd established and 
proved ourselves to it. 

549
00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:02,520
So yeah, he, he'd been a friend 
of mine before as well. 

550
00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:04,880
So it was, I worked with him at 
William H Brown when I was 

551
00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:07,720
there. 
So I knew obviously and, and had

552
00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:09,600
previous relationships with 
actually a lot of the branch 

553
00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:12,480
managers, Ashley came in most 
recently I worked with. 

554
00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:14,480
So I'd had a good relationship 
with him. 

555
00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:16,760
Steve, who's our manager at 
Whitam, I worked with when I was

556
00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:18,600
at heart, so had a good 
relationship with him. 

557
00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:21,480
Paul, who is our manager of the 
Chester World Branch, he was a 

558
00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:25,040
rival agent at another agency in
Colchester at the time and we 

559
00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:27,160
crossed paths regularly because 
he was on the road and I was on 

560
00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:29,000
the road. 
And so we always have mutual 

561
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:31,960
respect for what each other did 
and he reached out to us. 

562
00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:35,320
So yeah, we've just been so far 
fortunate with the relationships

563
00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:38,120
we've built in the industry. 
And like you don't actually 

564
00:26:38,120 --> 00:26:42,080
realise how, you know, you've 
probably heard this saying 100 

565
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:45,280
times your network is your net 
worth and how important your 

566
00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:47,760
network is growing up. 
Like when I look back over the 

567
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:50,320
course of my career or even just
my adolescents, the 

568
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:54,080
relationships I've built over 
that time have made massive 

569
00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:56,360
difference to now. 
But Tracy, who's our lettings 

570
00:26:56,360 --> 00:26:59,760
director, I haven't done a day's
work in lettings in our life and

571
00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:02,920
me or Mark, neither of us have. 
And that business has grown to 

572
00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:06,200
almost 600 managed units under 
Tracy's wing. 

573
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:10,240
And that was a relationship I 
had from when I worked at heart.

574
00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:13,800
So yeah, you don't realise 
actually the power of what is 

575
00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:16,440
already in your network. 
Yeah, so true. 

576
00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:20,320
And I, I've scrolled back to my 
phone when you were talking 

577
00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:24,280
because .4 in your nine points 
was you must have the right 

578
00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:28,760
people in the right seats. 
Yeah, RPRS, Yeah. 

579
00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:31,720
And with and with Tracy as well.
She was in that video. 

580
00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:34,920
I, I was watching on your 
website and yeah, I did very 

581
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:37,560
much get the impression from 
you, you and Mark being like, we

582
00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:40,160
ain't got a clue about lettings,
but Tracy's like, she's the 

583
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:42,600
lettings person. 
Let's bring her in. 

584
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:47,200
And I've seen that a lot. 
Again, I, I, I think of, if I 

585
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:50,640
use Mike and Ian Avocado as an 
example, they are opposites of 

586
00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:53,320
each other. 
So many people go into business 

587
00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:55,960
with someone who's the exact 
same as them and it's a car 

588
00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:57,760
crash behind us. 
You've got 2 amazing like 

589
00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:00,960
Rockstar salespeople, but then 
you've got not got the person 

590
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:03,240
who's making sure everything's 
ticking over. 

591
00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:06,320
So I think, yeah, too many 
people try and do everything and

592
00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:09,960
ages like learning lettings, 
legislation and stuff. 

593
00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:12,480
It's like that. 
My time is better spent doing 

594
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:15,240
the things I'm really good at. 
If I can bring it over to 

595
00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:17,560
someone else who is an expert, 
away we go. 

596
00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:20,240
Again, going back to corporate, 
like you said, early assignment,

597
00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:23,080
like they have structure. 
And so you don't tend to find 

598
00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:25,160
that there is crossover. 
The thing is with an independent

599
00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:28,360
business, obviously egos get in 
the way a lot of the time and 

600
00:28:28,360 --> 00:28:29,480
you don't know what you don't 
know. 

601
00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:31,720
You don't know how structure 
should be implemented into a 

602
00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:33,360
business. 
You don't know how to set seats 

603
00:28:33,360 --> 00:28:34,360
up. 
You don't know what major 

604
00:28:34,360 --> 00:28:37,000
functions every company are. 
You don't know who should sit in

605
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:38,320
the seats of those major 
functions. 

606
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:41,120
You don't know how to manage the
people who sits in the seats of 

607
00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:43,640
those major functions and who 
does what job and what task. 

608
00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:45,680
And then when you've got all of 
that figured out, like Mike and 

609
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:48,440
Ian, I spent some time with them
on their podcast a couple weeks 

610
00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:51,320
ago, and they are, you can tell 
that they're opposite of each 

611
00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:52,800
other. 
But even if they had 

612
00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:56,840
similarities, like you have to 
get the ego aside and say, 

613
00:28:56,840 --> 00:28:59,520
right, well, what seats do the 
business need and who's going to

614
00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:01,320
sit in them? 
Because if that's my job, then 

615
00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:02,960
that's my job. 
If that's yours, then that's 

616
00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:05,120
yours. 
And until, as I say, probably 18

617
00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:07,240
months, two years ago, we didn't
really have any structure 

618
00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:10,080
around, well, who's doing what? 
And so everybody tended to do a 

619
00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:12,120
bit of everything. 
And you seem to get in each 

620
00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:14,720
other's way and trip up. 
But yeah, once you set them 

621
00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:17,600
aside and say, well, let me do, 
I'm good at you. 

622
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:19,360
Do what you're good at. 
And here's what this seat 

623
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:21,640
requires and you're in it. 
You do that and I'll leave you 

624
00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:22,280
alone. 
I'll do that. 

625
00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:24,600
You leave me alone, the business
will move forward. 

626
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:27,120
I think something you've 
reminded me of what you what 

627
00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:32,120
you're saying there to use it in
avocado again, What I've noticed

628
00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:34,360
from all the podcasts I've 
recorded, all the agents I've 

629
00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:36,320
spent time with up and down the 
country, all the podcasts I 

630
00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:39,960
listen to, there is very much 
more than one way to skin a cat.

631
00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:43,400
Yes. 
You put your business next to 

632
00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:46,320
Ian's and you've got Ian here in
a freaking pink. 

633
00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:49,360
Hoodie. 
Avocado emoji and you've got 

634
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:52,880
Shane walking in looking sharp 
like, I think when you walked on

635
00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:53,800
the stage at the stage. 
Yeah. 

636
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:55,280
So I was like, who's this 
geezer? 

637
00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:59,680
He looks pretty sharp, right? 
And and you can get like I we're

638
00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:01,480
recording this podcast. 
I've got a baseball cap on a 

639
00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:04,200
black T-shirt and I'm need a 
shave like. 

640
00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:09,120
And yeah, I was in an estate 
agency world where clean shaven 

641
00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:11,680
hair off her face, no tattoos, 
no jewellery. 

642
00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:15,800
And I kind of think sometimes 
like if Simon Gates launched an 

643
00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:19,000
estate agency tomorrow, what 
would it look like? 

644
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:23,000
Would I go because we can bash 
again the all the corporate and 

645
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:26,400
they wear a suit. 
But I like when I've seen your 

646
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:29,520
attire and, and on your website 
and stuff, I'm like, I don't 

647
00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:33,120
look at you and go corporate. 
I go, they know their identity, 

648
00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:34,800
they look good, feel good, 
right. 

649
00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:37,200
And I kind of go, what would I 
be? 

650
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:40,160
Would I, would I want to be 
Yeah, sharp and people. 

651
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:42,560
And when me and my team walk 
down the street, they're like, 

652
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:44,520
that's Simon Gates, estate 
agents. 

653
00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:48,080
Or would I be a hoodie cargoes 
and trainers and they go, oh, 

654
00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:51,280
that's that's Simon Gates, like 
estate agent, like that's. 

655
00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:52,800
A great point. 
Yeah. 

656
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:55,600
And you and and again two 
different business models. 

657
00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:59,880
You've got High Street offices 
and there's some going down 

658
00:30:59,960 --> 00:31:04,000
self-employed route, like 
there's some who charge higher 

659
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:05,880
fees, there are some who charge 
lower fees. 

660
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:08,680
There are some who will take 
referral fees from solicitors, 

661
00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:11,440
some who won't. 
And like that's what I love 

662
00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:13,600
about I think where the industry
is right now and where it's 

663
00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:16,160
going, the amount of 
collaboration and I guess 

664
00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:19,400
particularly within the network 
of sort of iceberg and life 

665
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:23,240
cycle, you're obviously very 
much going. 

666
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:26,120
We see the way that the industry
is going and what Mark talks 

667
00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:27,760
about revenue per employee 
etcetera. 

668
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:29,360
But you've all got different 
businesses. 

669
00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:33,360
You've all got a belief of like 
the way things should be done 

670
00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:36,080
and client, etcetera, etcetera. 
That's what I found from all the

671
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:38,200
conversations I've had. 
Oh, definitely, yeah. 

672
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:39,400
It's a really unique group 
actually. 

673
00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:42,360
It's a really Stuart observation
actually, Simon, because there 

674
00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:43,880
are so many different businesses
in there. 

675
00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:48,760
And that's where, like really 
understanding your identity 

676
00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:51,440
comes into play because it's 
it's so tempting to be like, oh,

677
00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:53,800
well, they do that. 
Maybe that's what we should do 

678
00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:55,840
now. 
And people don't want to see 

679
00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:58,040
suits and ties and shirts 
anymore. 

680
00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:00,720
They want to see hoodies and 
people relaxed and like, well, 

681
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:04,720
if that's not you, then stay in 
your lane. 

682
00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:08,480
Like if you're, you feel better 
in a suit because you feel like 

683
00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:10,200
you've put your armour on and 
you're going to work. 

684
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:13,120
And like you say, look, you feel
like you look good, feel good, 

685
00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:15,360
play good. 
And if that's the way you want 

686
00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:16,680
to do it, then you should do it 
that way. 

687
00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:18,560
But really own it and stay in 
that lane. 

688
00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:22,240
But yeah, I think it's a, it is 
a lot more collaborative now. 

689
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:24,080
And there are many ways to skin 
a cat. 

690
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:25,600
I really do agree with that. 
Yeah. 

691
00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:27,480
I don't think there's this. 
I keep getting asked this 

692
00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:30,520
question all the time, like 
what's the better method? 

693
00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:33,680
self-employed or employed? 
I'm like, whoa, there is no 

694
00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:35,960
better method. 
That's like, so what's the 

695
00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:38,280
better drink, Coke or Pepsi? 
What do you prefer? 

696
00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:39,800
Like what? 
What do you want to do? 

697
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:43,760
Like there is no right or wrong.
It's both are working evidently 

698
00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:48,080
what works for you. 
So yeah, yeah, I'm agreeing with

699
00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:49,640
that. 
That's a really good point. 

700
00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:54,080
So I know you have, I can think 
of 2, two businesses off the top

701
00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:58,400
of my head, one who charges a a 
pretty good no sell no fee 

702
00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:01,040
percentage. 
And I can think of one who 

703
00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:07,880
charges a lower fee model. 
And the one who does the higher 

704
00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:12,160
no sell no fee would look at 
that low fee model and go shut 

705
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:15,280
up your fees. 
I'm like, OK, revenues, vanity, 

706
00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:17,720
profit, sanity. 
Let's put your profit and loss 

707
00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:19,680
on the table and see who's 
making money and who's losing 

708
00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:22,120
money because I know the answer 
to that question and it's 

709
00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:24,520
certainly the lower fee model. 
But going back to what you said 

710
00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:29,920
there about structure systems, 
processes automation in place so

711
00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:32,560
that they can do it at a lower 
fee, but actually it's a higher 

712
00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:35,840
fee business, really poor 
structure systems, process 

713
00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:38,200
automation where they're being 
really inefficient. 

714
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:40,280
Yeah. 
And you know, we feel guilty of 

715
00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:41,720
that ourselves. 
You get to a point, you start to

716
00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:44,600
scale the profit out of the 
business and you go, yeah, I 

717
00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:46,640
mean this is great. 
Like all of this extra stuff and

718
00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:49,680
these extra add-ons and all 
these these these cool features.

719
00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:53,720
But like, cost money and you're 
running a company and so is the 

720
00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:58,240
company here to make money or is
the company here to look good 

721
00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:01,600
from the outside and, you know, 
tweak the yeah, well, maybe make

722
00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:04,080
a little bit less. 
So what's, what's the goal here?

723
00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:07,680
Ultimately, at the end of the 
day, the goal of any business, 

724
00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:10,480
unless you're a charity, should 
be to make money. 

725
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:13,719
And but you need a purpose along
the way. 

726
00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:16,040
You need to serve your customers
and serve your clients and you 

727
00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:18,840
need to do it in the right way. 
But you need to make money 

728
00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:20,880
because you need to keep putting
fuel in engine. 

729
00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:24,239
And so, but I agree with you. 
We've we've felt guilty of this.

730
00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:27,440
And I have conversations with 
with with people in my business 

731
00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:29,120
around. 
Oh, well, yeah, so and so are so

732
00:34:29,639 --> 00:34:31,040
cheap. 
And whenever they go into an 

733
00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:35,440
area, all they do is undercut 
fees and and I'm like, well, it 

734
00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:36,960
works for them. 
So look. 

735
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:40,000
Here we go. 
They're in charge of .75 and 

736
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:44,679
buying the market, but the 
process works, they make money 

737
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:48,600
and that's just their model. 
Doesn't mean we agree with it, 

738
00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:50,760
but it doesn't mean it's shit 
and it doesn't work. 

739
00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:55,000
It works so. 
When, when we will, when we can 

740
00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:58,720
talk about as a as an industry 
about and I I can definitely be 

741
00:34:58,720 --> 00:35:01,560
guilty of this. 
I do a lot of sessions with 

742
00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:04,480
agents on this about the 
importance of pricing correctly 

743
00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:08,040
from the outset, like the data 
proves less likely to sell, more

744
00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:10,240
likely to fall free, take longer
etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. 

745
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:12,880
Yeah, if you look at the Foxtons
numbers. 

746
00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:15,920
Yeah. 
They quite clearly overvalue. 

747
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:18,680
Please don't sue my ass Foxes by
the way, they're quite clearly 

748
00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:20,680
overvalued. 
Tying to a long contract 

749
00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:24,720
allegedly price produced. 
I've got a funny story on that. 

750
00:35:24,720 --> 00:35:27,880
A second price produced 2 thirds
3/4 of what they list. 

751
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:31,920
But when you see their numbers, 
you go Jesus Christ, like under 

752
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:35,240
guy getting stewardship, they've
gone back to the old fashioned 

753
00:35:35,240 --> 00:35:37,520
foxes and they're making a lot 
of money. 

754
00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:40,920
Yet there's an agent out there 
selling 80% of what they list 

755
00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:43,000
and they're going. 
I'm struggling to pay myself 

756
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:45,520
each month and that is, you 
know, can be a bit of an issue 

757
00:35:45,720 --> 00:35:50,760
with the system very quickly 
allegedly thing. 

758
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:56,720
I go to quite a few talks, 
whether that's sports, business,

759
00:35:56,720 --> 00:35:59,280
love going to these kind of 
things and I've gone to a few 

760
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:03,800
Liverpool Legends events and 
Bruce Grobola will quite often 

761
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:06,320
be at these events and there's 
always this running jokes. 

762
00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:08,960
He obviously had his match 
fixing scandal thing and 

763
00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:13,880
whenever they talk about it, he 
always goes allegedly, like 

764
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:17,800
everyone just burst out like 
it's just it's it's comical, 

765
00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:22,080
right? 
Something I want to ask you a 

766
00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:26,360
little bit less serious, the 
name Harrison Wood. 

767
00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:30,480
How did you like have an arm 
wrestler to decide whose name 

768
00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:32,080
came first? 
How long did that conversation 

769
00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:34,320
take? 
Yeah, not very long. 

770
00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:37,440
I mean if you when we said it 
out loud to start with Wood and 

771
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:40,400
Harris, that doesn't sound 
great. 

772
00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:43,360
So that's, that was it. 
It was simple as that really. 

773
00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:47,080
We put both on the table and 
that's what we landed on. 

774
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:51,360
But my, my area of expertise 
before we got into the business 

775
00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:52,640
was marketing. 
So we did that. 

776
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:56,600
Me and my friend Robbie, who now
runs a blank space, a company we

777
00:36:56,600 --> 00:37:00,240
uses a lot of our marketing, 
come up with all of the design, 

778
00:37:00,240 --> 00:37:02,840
all of the, the logo, the name 
change. 

779
00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:05,480
And I trust his opinion on 
almost pretty much everything 

780
00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:07,520
when it comes to marketing and 
how it should land and how 

781
00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:09,880
people are going to read it. 
And he was like, yeah, it don't 

782
00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:11,280
make sense doing it that way 
around. 

783
00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:12,840
Like it just feels better doing 
it this way around. 

784
00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:15,320
And it was a 2 minute 
conversation. 

785
00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:17,800
And you and you and you slipped 
him a fiver when he said it was 

786
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:19,880
your. 
Name. 

787
00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:24,480
And and in the in the video of 
you guys talking, there was a 

788
00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:27,880
mention about some billboard, 
but I don't know what was on 

789
00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:29,920
that billboard. 
Can you talk about that? 

790
00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:31,440
Yeah, we can. 
Yeah. 

791
00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:35,080
So, yeah, we put it up. 
So this was at a time when 

792
00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:37,400
that's such a good point because
I still want to Rob Brady about 

793
00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:38,840
this. 
Rob was talking to me about the 

794
00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:42,920
authenticity of the brand. 
He put it in the iceberg life 

795
00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:47,520
cycle chat just to say like, you
need to stick to who you are and

796
00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:49,280
really own it. 
So here's a good example of what

797
00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:51,600
the Harris and guys did. 
I can't even remember the year 

798
00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:54,040
we did it now, but no one was 
doing billboard ads. 

799
00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:55,680
And we thought actually tell you
what would be good if like if we

800
00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:58,480
just got a massive billboard 
near the station, North station 

801
00:37:58,480 --> 00:37:59,600
coast. 
It was super busy. 

802
00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:00,880
Everyone goes past it all the 
time. 

803
00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:04,040
And we just had a message on 
there that just made people's 

804
00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:06,160
head turn. 
So me and Robbie were sitting in

805
00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:10,160
a room in Greyfriars Hotel in 
the town and we were going back 

806
00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:12,640
and forth on designs and what we
could do for campaigns. 

807
00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:15,400
And we landed on, and why don't 
we do a billboard and then just 

808
00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:19,280
put something a bit like 
humorous, but that might shock 

809
00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:21,520
people on it. 
We used, I don't know if you 

810
00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:22,640
ever saw it. 
Do you remember Richard 

811
00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:26,160
Branson's Virgin brand? 
You know, when they put screens 

812
00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:28,200
on the back of planes for the 
first time? 

813
00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:33,200
And his logo slogan for that was
9 Inches of Pleasure. 

814
00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:34,840
No, I didn't see that. 
OK. 

815
00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:37,600
I thought it was brilliant. 
I loved it and I thought it's 

816
00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:39,280
imagine that you put screens on 
planes. 

817
00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:41,400
It's a pleasure like it's cheeky
and fun. 

818
00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:43,920
And so we went back and forth 
for a load of different ideas 

819
00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:47,720
and we landed on nothing gets me
more excited than a lovely semi 

820
00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:50,600
will help you find your perfect 
property. 

821
00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:55,280
I thought, well, it's it's not, 
I mean, it's true to a degree. 

822
00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:58,520
Like, you know, people love 
going, Oh, what a wonderful hat 

823
00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:01,400
like, but it's also a little bit
fun and cheeky. 

824
00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:05,800
And I just thought, you know, 
that's our brand and people 

825
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:08,600
loved it. 
Loved it, particularly within 

826
00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:09,960
the industry. 
Not within the industry here, 

827
00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:11,320
not within the industry in our 
town. 

828
00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:13,000
They're going. 
I wish I'd done that. 

829
00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:17,240
Yeah, you can't say that. 
That's ridiculous why they put 

830
00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:19,320
things like that. 
But then everyone else who 

831
00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:22,000
weren't competition, I had so 
many people messaged me, but 

832
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:25,000
people up north that like 
Manchester, that's in the end 

833
00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:28,400
and was like, do you mind if I 
use that slogan and put it on 

834
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:30,600
marketing and stuff here? 
Like think it's brilliant. 

835
00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:32,520
Of course, like not competition 
to you. 

836
00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:35,680
I don't own the words like you 
want to use it, but thanks for 

837
00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:37,320
reaching out. 
So yeah. 

838
00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:40,600
And it just sort of that moved 
our business into a whole other 

839
00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:44,320
direction of we really started 
to attract the clients who we 

840
00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:48,040
wanted to work with, which were 
just people who had a bit of 

841
00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:51,200
fun, who had a bit of humour, 
who didn't take everything so 

842
00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:55,280
seriously, who didn't want to be
bogged down in the nitty gritty 

843
00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:59,400
back and forth of like, sales 
should be a dance, not a battle,

844
00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:00,960
shouldn't be a fight. 
Like we shouldn't be in this 

845
00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:04,400
together. 
Should feel like it's you and me

846
00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:07,320
trying to get the buyer to pay 
us what we wanted to pay. 

847
00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:09,120
Like it should be a 
relationship. 

848
00:40:09,720 --> 00:40:13,320
And oftentimes you end up in 
relationships with people in the

849
00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:16,280
industry who actually are don't 
really want to be in a 

850
00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:18,120
relationship with you. 
I just tend to argue with you 

851
00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:19,840
and fight with you about why, 
why haven't we done this? 

852
00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:20,840
Why haven't we haven't done 
that? 

853
00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:22,560
Why haven't we? 
We don't do that. 

854
00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:24,800
That's not what we do. 
And when we got clear on the 

855
00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:26,400
message and what we do and what 
we don't do. 

856
00:40:26,720 --> 00:40:28,440
We've got clear on who we want 
to work with and who we don't 

857
00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:30,600
want to work with and you start 
to attract your tribe, don't 

858
00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:33,240
you? 
And that was that was a point 

859
00:40:33,240 --> 00:40:36,080
which I didn't realise until 
probably a few years later. 

860
00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:38,640
I think on that, one of the last
points you're making there in 

861
00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:44,200
terms of finding your tribe, 
like the way a magnet works is 

862
00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:47,200
that it's there to attract the 
right people and also detract 

863
00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:49,640
the wrong people. 
You really want to push them 

864
00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:52,000
away. 
And if someone was to get 

865
00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:56,800
offended at that advert, just in
this conversation we've had, I'd

866
00:40:56,800 --> 00:41:01,080
be getting the feeling of I'd be
getting the feeling of probably 

867
00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:02,960
don't want to work with this 
person if they're offended by 

868
00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:04,440
it. 
Like that's my humour. 

869
00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:07,000
Probably going to be a night 
nightmare going forward. 

870
00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:09,800
You've been. 
Amazing. 

871
00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:12,440
If I'm doing that magnet thing, 
I'm going to use it as. 

872
00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:14,320
My oh, you're welcome. 
I probably stole it from someone

873
00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:17,120
else. 
Rory Sutherland. 

874
00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:20,120
Does that name ring a bell? 
Yes, Mark's ingenious, yeah. 

875
00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:23,080
So have you heard of his flat 
white or fuck off? 

876
00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:27,480
No. 
So in the world we now live in, 

877
00:41:27,640 --> 00:41:30,640
people going into coffee shops 
and ordering these crazy orders 

878
00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:34,360
and he's like at a train 
station, there should just be 

879
00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:36,440
one order at a coffee shop and 
it should be a flat 1. 

880
00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:40,120
And it's all over TikTok. 
And then these guys have 

881
00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:42,200
actually launched flat white or 
fuck off. 

882
00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:44,600
So I thought of actually said 
about the permission from like 

883
00:41:44,600 --> 00:41:46,560
wherever it was. 
So I went to Rory Sumner. 

884
00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:48,080
We want to launch flat white to 
fuck off. 

885
00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:50,600
And he's like, well, I don't own
the idea. 

886
00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:52,720
You crack on. 
And I was like, that's such a 

887
00:41:52,720 --> 00:41:54,520
good point, isn't it? 
Like, And Rory Sutherland has 

888
00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:57,800
said it before, imagine just a 
cafe where the only thing they 

889
00:41:57,800 --> 00:42:00,800
serve is a bacon roll on white 
bread with tomato sauce. 

890
00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:02,120
And that's all you're going to 
get in there. 

891
00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:05,640
It's like, if it's like people 
in and out, yeah, I just want a 

892
00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:07,480
bacon sandwich. 
I like white bread, like tomato 

893
00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:10,880
sauce. 
But I think in the can be a 

894
00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:14,080
vanilla world, in the state 
agency where we all look and 

895
00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:16,000
sound the same, we're like, oh, 
but I don't want to put anyone 

896
00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:17,280
off. 
It's like. 

897
00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:21,120
Everything to to everyone. 
Yeah, I think like I there's 

898
00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:23,720
numerous things I'm trying to 
think of, but again, I, I have 

899
00:42:23,720 --> 00:42:25,960
this conversation myself and I'm
like walking the dogs. 

900
00:42:26,240 --> 00:42:28,080
What would Simon Gates the 
stadium to look like? 

901
00:42:28,080 --> 00:42:32,640
And if I said I am the Newport 
Pagnell bungalow specialist, I 

902
00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:34,480
think people, if we've got a 
bungalow to sell in Newport 

903
00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:36,160
Pagnell are going to come to me 
and that's what I'm going to 

904
00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:37,800
talk about. 
But then I'm going to get 

905
00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:40,240
someone coming to me going. 
I've got a three bed semi. 

906
00:42:40,240 --> 00:42:43,200
It's not a bungalow. 
But I love like your marketing, 

907
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:44,480
everything you do. 
Yeah, I'll sell it for you. 

908
00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:47,000
I wouldn't be shouting from the 
rooftops, but I'm saying 

909
00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:49,560
something. 
It's not a bungalow, but other 

910
00:42:49,560 --> 00:42:51,680
people are going to want to work
with you if that makes sense. 

911
00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:52,600
Yeah, it does. 
Yeah. 

912
00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:54,880
You fish with a fish on, then 
your pond, like, expands, don't 

913
00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:58,040
I suppose so I get the point. 
It's a difficult one where you 

914
00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:00,160
get to draw the line, isn't it? 
Like, when do we say? 

915
00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:03,520
When do you say no? 
I think that's the famous Steve 

916
00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:05,720
Jobs quote, or I'm sure it was 
Steve. 

917
00:43:05,720 --> 00:43:08,120
It's like the things that you 
say no, like disciplines, the 

918
00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:12,040
things that you'd say no to. 
And if you're able to say no so 

919
00:43:12,040 --> 00:43:14,960
you're not distracted by the 
other shiny things that, yeah, 

920
00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:19,040
that probably does skate outside
of my marketing campaign and 

921
00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:21,200
probably does skate outside of 
the type of people I want to 

922
00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:22,480
work with. 
But they're going to pay us some

923
00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:23,800
money, and so we should work for
them anyway. 

924
00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:27,160
Like there are points in 
business where you do have to 

925
00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:30,440
say no to the wrong thing 
because the magnet thing you 

926
00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:32,280
used, you want to attract the 
right thing and repel the wrong 

927
00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:33,360
thing. 
And all of a sudden you start 

928
00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:37,400
doing 3 bedroom semis all across
the town and you go, now I'm not

929
00:43:37,600 --> 00:43:41,920
a bungalow guy, Jim, Semi guy. 
On in terms of marketing as 

930
00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:47,320
well, and I heard you speak 
about your expertise and 

931
00:43:47,320 --> 00:43:50,000
interest in that field when 
you're on the podcast with Mark 

932
00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:52,480
and Ian. 
Absolutely love your your 

933
00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:53,680
marketing thing. 
It's fantastic. 

934
00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:57,120
And one thing I absolutely loved
was I'm going to try and get 

935
00:43:57,120 --> 00:43:59,720
this right photography. 
Yeah. 

936
00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:02,280
That that looks sick on the 
website. 

937
00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:04,800
That's so good. 
Yeah, it was just, it was coined

938
00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:10,920
because so James, who is a part 
of our media team now, one of 

939
00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:16,240
three people's part of our media
team, he loves dogs, like, loves

940
00:44:16,240 --> 00:44:21,160
dogs unhealthily. 
He really loves dogs. 

941
00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:25,480
And so he would, as part of the 
service, which was unbeknown to 

942
00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:28,680
me that he loved dogs so much. 
And so he would go out and shoot

943
00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:31,160
houses. 
But I didn't know that a lot of 

944
00:44:31,160 --> 00:44:34,040
the time because he would do 
like two or three shoots a day. 

945
00:44:34,040 --> 00:44:35,800
And then we had a photographer 
who was in before him and we 

946
00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:37,920
were like, this guy's doing 5 or
6. 

947
00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:42,600
James, what is it that you're 
doing that is not as efficient 

948
00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:45,240
as this guy by like almost 50? 
What you doing? 

949
00:44:46,040 --> 00:44:49,080
And it transpired that he would 
spend like 20 minutes just 

950
00:44:49,080 --> 00:44:52,640
stroking the dog, playing the 
garden or taking photos. 

951
00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:55,640
And he just had all of these 
photos of people's dogs for him 

952
00:44:55,640 --> 00:45:01,200
that he would take and send to 
them outside of the photos of 

953
00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:02,680
the house. 
And they'd go, oh, here you go. 

954
00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:05,160
Like just his six photos of 
Jasper. 

955
00:45:05,160 --> 00:45:07,680
Like, I hope it was OK and nice 
to meet you today. 

956
00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:09,440
Just because he wanted to do it 
because he loved it so much. 

957
00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:11,000
And it started to become a 
thing. 

958
00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:12,840
And we were like, oh, actually, 
people really like that. 

959
00:45:12,840 --> 00:45:14,520
So let's just do it a little bit
more. 

960
00:45:14,520 --> 00:45:16,640
And then when we've got enough, 
we'll put them all on the 

961
00:45:16,640 --> 00:45:18,360
website. 
And it just gives people 

962
00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:19,760
something to come back to us 
for. 

963
00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:21,600
Oh my dog's on the website. 
And love that. 

964
00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:24,960
Where photography came from, So 
James was our official 

965
00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:28,240
photographer. 
I love that you've made me think

966
00:45:28,240 --> 00:45:33,320
of the ice cream story you told 
on in a Mark's pod of like those

967
00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:37,040
those special moments that. 
Yeah, yeah, they are. 

968
00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:39,440
Yeah. 
The unexpected moments that you 

969
00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:43,640
think, wow, like that was really
thoughtful and they can be such 

970
00:45:43,640 --> 00:45:45,520
small things. 
And it was just more of a 

971
00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:48,760
passion project for him. 
It wasn't my boss is telling me 

972
00:45:48,760 --> 00:45:50,840
to do it or it's part of what we
do here. 

973
00:45:50,840 --> 00:45:54,240
He was just so passionate about 
delivering a great service for 

974
00:45:54,240 --> 00:45:56,640
people because he loved dogs. 
He's like, I would love it if 

975
00:45:56,640 --> 00:45:59,520
somebody come around my house 
who had the skills to take great

976
00:45:59,520 --> 00:46:01,720
photos and some of the photos 
awesome. 

977
00:46:01,720 --> 00:46:05,160
Like get the dogs jumping up and
catching balls and getting like 

978
00:46:05,160 --> 00:46:07,600
super slow MO and it'd be like 
action shots. 

979
00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:09,240
And I'm like, Jesus, this must 
take you ages. 

980
00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:11,960
Yeah, it does, but you need to 
more houses. 

981
00:46:11,960 --> 00:46:15,480
But like, this is lovely. 
And yeah, people just really 

982
00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:18,520
bought into it. 
We, I think I discussed it on 

983
00:46:19,480 --> 00:46:21,960
Ian's pod actually, about the 
surprise and delight thing. 

984
00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:24,720
And those little surprise and 
delight moments really do make a

985
00:46:24,720 --> 00:46:26,640
big difference to people and 
they haven't really got to cost 

986
00:46:26,640 --> 00:46:31,760
you that much. 
It's so I think so on something 

987
00:46:31,760 --> 00:46:34,440
you said there, I, I try to make
this point with, with agents at 

988
00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:38,520
the moment of in the world we 
now live in and with like, I'll 

989
00:46:38,520 --> 00:46:40,240
use LinkedIn, Facebook as an 
example. 

990
00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:43,360
You literally get a reminder 
when you have a friend or a 

991
00:46:43,360 --> 00:46:47,120
LinkedIn connection. 
It's their birthday, right. 

992
00:46:47,880 --> 00:46:49,080
Good morning, Shane, happy 
birthday. 

993
00:46:49,080 --> 00:46:50,560
Hope you have a good day. 
And you're like, oh, cheers 

994
00:46:50,560 --> 00:46:52,240
mate. 
Like thanks for that, like 

995
00:46:52,240 --> 00:46:53,040
people. 
Oh, that's nice. 

996
00:46:53,040 --> 00:46:55,000
If someone's remembered well, 
they haven't remembered. 

997
00:46:55,000 --> 00:46:58,400
It's just come up on their their
phone and that that's worked 

998
00:46:58,400 --> 00:46:59,960
really well for me. 
I'm genuinely not trying to get 

999
00:46:59,960 --> 00:47:02,040
any business out of it. 
I just want to wish people happy

1000
00:47:02,040 --> 00:47:05,040
birthday because it feels nice. 
But you think that's actually so

1001
00:47:05,040 --> 00:47:08,480
easy to do in the world we now 
live in today that actually if 

1002
00:47:08,480 --> 00:47:13,320
you were to send a happy 
birthday card to someone, like 

1003
00:47:13,400 --> 00:47:17,200
how amazing does that feel when 
you get a card in the post? 

1004
00:47:17,560 --> 00:47:18,960
Yeah, it doesn't happen these 
days. 

1005
00:47:18,960 --> 00:47:22,440
And I was at a conference last 
week and someone said on stage, 

1006
00:47:22,440 --> 00:47:25,200
like when someone is buying a 
property, they're obviously 

1007
00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:28,000
giving over their ID and they 
will add buyers into a WhatsApp 

1008
00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:29,680
group. 
They will get a notification 

1009
00:47:29,680 --> 00:47:31,480
saying it's Shane's birthday, 
say straight into WhatsApp 

1010
00:47:31,480 --> 00:47:33,600
group, happy birthday or send 
them a card. 

1011
00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:35,720
And then you're like, wow, 
that's so nice of them. 

1012
00:47:35,720 --> 00:47:38,320
Again, those tiny things that 
you you said about. 

1013
00:47:38,800 --> 00:47:40,520
Yeah, I think they're easy to 
do, but they're easy not to do 

1014
00:47:40,600 --> 00:47:42,040
it as well, which is why people 
don't do them. 

1015
00:47:42,040 --> 00:47:46,160
It's just so easy to forget. 
But they they do make such a 

1016
00:47:46,160 --> 00:47:48,720
difference. 
It's such power in doing that. 

1017
00:47:48,800 --> 00:47:52,600
And yeah, I think like if, if as
you were saying that if you do 

1018
00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:57,880
it with genuine intent and it's 
personalized and individualized,

1019
00:47:57,880 --> 00:48:00,800
it will make a, it will make a 
really big difference because 

1020
00:48:00,800 --> 00:48:04,520
like you see it on LinkedIn, 
LinkedIn is probably the worst 

1021
00:48:04,520 --> 00:48:07,440
platform for it because the 
messages are the same, you know,

1022
00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:09,160
like LinkedIn give you the 
message. 

1023
00:48:09,240 --> 00:48:11,840
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's it. 
And then you get like seven of 

1024
00:48:11,840 --> 00:48:13,680
those and you're like, oh, 
you've just pressed the button. 

1025
00:48:14,200 --> 00:48:16,720
Like it's still nice that people
have done it, but you know, it's

1026
00:48:16,720 --> 00:48:18,760
just, well, I've pressed that 
button and send you've still 

1027
00:48:18,760 --> 00:48:21,360
gone out of your way to do it. 
Doesn't quite still have the 

1028
00:48:21,360 --> 00:48:24,840
same feeling about the 
individualisation to it. 

1029
00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:27,200
Make it personal to me. 
I spoke about this actually, I 

1030
00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:30,280
think I've put it on LinkedIn a 
little while ago and business 

1031
00:48:30,280 --> 00:48:31,440
and I'll be interested to hear 
your thoughts. 

1032
00:48:31,440 --> 00:48:34,400
Actually, Simon, the way you 
think about things is, but 

1033
00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:37,120
business is probably going more 
that way as well because 

1034
00:48:37,120 --> 00:48:39,680
people's expectations are going 
more that way around. 

1035
00:48:40,080 --> 00:48:42,960
Individualize this service to 
me. 

1036
00:48:44,160 --> 00:48:49,760
If you go into McDonald's now, I
take my kids and they would go, 

1037
00:48:50,880 --> 00:48:54,320
yeah, I would like a hamburger, 
but I don't want any Pickles in 

1038
00:48:54,320 --> 00:48:55,520
it. 
I don't want any cheese in 

1039
00:48:55,520 --> 00:48:56,640
there. 
I don't want any onions in 

1040
00:48:56,640 --> 00:48:57,040
there. 
Actually. 

1041
00:48:57,080 --> 00:48:58,360
I don't need tomato in there. 
Actually. 

1042
00:48:58,360 --> 00:49:00,800
Can you put this and you 
individualize it to that person?

1043
00:49:01,160 --> 00:49:04,760
Personalisation says hi, Shane 
Harris on an e-mail. 

1044
00:49:05,160 --> 00:49:08,360
Individualization says, I know 
who you are, I know what you're 

1045
00:49:08,360 --> 00:49:12,080
looking at and I know what you 
need and I'll adapt around you. 

1046
00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:15,000
And I feel like business is 
probably doing a little bit more

1047
00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:17,360
of that. 
And if you can figure that bit 

1048
00:49:17,360 --> 00:49:19,560
of gold out and how do we 
individualize the service 

1049
00:49:19,560 --> 00:49:21,800
instead of people just feel like
it's disingenuous. 

1050
00:49:21,800 --> 00:49:24,880
Personalization of oh, hi, Shane
H. 

1051
00:49:24,920 --> 00:49:27,400
Well, it says Shane H because 
I've put my surname in as H 

1052
00:49:27,400 --> 00:49:30,280
instead of Harris. 
Obviously it's not a individual 

1053
00:49:30,280 --> 00:49:32,680
message to me. 
You can feel it sometimes, can't

1054
00:49:32,680 --> 00:49:36,480
you, When it's done, but it's 
done disingenuously. 

1055
00:49:37,240 --> 00:49:43,680
Yeah, I think like with with 
tech and AI and of the you being

1056
00:49:44,440 --> 00:49:47,520
life cycle users and obviously 
like the way they have it where 

1057
00:49:47,520 --> 00:49:49,400
they know what people are 
clicking on and people see 

1058
00:49:49,400 --> 00:49:52,200
different things like that's 
unbelievable. 

1059
00:49:52,200 --> 00:49:55,280
I'm a huge fan of what Mark, Rob
and everyone is there is doing. 

1060
00:49:55,520 --> 00:50:00,960
But and then this conversation, 
but let's say I'm not going to 

1061
00:50:00,960 --> 00:50:02,200
do it because you're a Man U 
fan. 

1062
00:50:02,200 --> 00:50:06,640
But let's say I, I don't know, 
I, I sent you a thank you card 

1063
00:50:06,640 --> 00:50:07,920
in the post. 
I'm definitely not doing it 

1064
00:50:07,920 --> 00:50:09,600
because you're a Man U fan, but 
thank you for that. 

1065
00:50:09,920 --> 00:50:12,400
Hey, Shane, thanks for being a 
guest in the podcast and inside.

1066
00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:17,200
I don't know, it's a program to 
a unit like a, or a ticket from 

1067
00:50:17,200 --> 00:50:19,200
a united game. 
And I've gone and looked up. 

1068
00:50:19,600 --> 00:50:22,360
I know it's the date of your 
birthday or, I don't know, the 

1069
00:50:22,360 --> 00:50:24,440
day you launch your business or 
something. 

1070
00:50:24,480 --> 00:50:27,440
And like, that would cost 
peanuts, but you'd be like, wow,

1071
00:50:27,440 --> 00:50:30,520
that's incredible. 
It would make such a difference,

1072
00:50:30,520 --> 00:50:34,080
such a difference. 
I think like Mark and Rob and 

1073
00:50:34,360 --> 00:50:37,160
all the guys at Iceberg and what
they're doing in regards to sort

1074
00:50:37,160 --> 00:50:41,880
of AI and moving things forward 
is so wonderful that it, it 

1075
00:50:41,880 --> 00:50:47,920
just, it's such advanced 
technology that it's so good. 

1076
00:50:47,920 --> 00:50:50,280
It allows you to get back to the
basics. 

1077
00:50:50,440 --> 00:50:53,880
Exactly, Yeah. 
And I think that's where people 

1078
00:50:53,880 --> 00:50:57,120
are sort of misconceiving the 
idea of like, Oh yeah, well, 

1079
00:50:57,120 --> 00:50:58,920
everything just gets sent 
automatically. 

1080
00:50:58,920 --> 00:51:01,560
And then like we never really 
have to have that human hand to 

1081
00:51:01,560 --> 00:51:03,440
hand combat anymore. 
We could just have all the 

1082
00:51:03,440 --> 00:51:06,280
computers do it. 
And I don't actually think 

1083
00:51:06,720 --> 00:51:10,480
that's Marks idea. 
I think deep down underneath the

1084
00:51:10,480 --> 00:51:13,920
surface, it's like, I want to do
all of this stuff for you so you

1085
00:51:13,920 --> 00:51:16,920
don't have to have all of the 
same amount of people doing 

1086
00:51:17,440 --> 00:51:21,320
nothing all day, which a lot of 
people in businesses get 

1087
00:51:21,320 --> 00:51:24,080
hideaway from and do not very 
much. 

1088
00:51:24,080 --> 00:51:26,240
But because everything else is 
working around them, they're not

1089
00:51:26,240 --> 00:51:28,320
seen. 
So you don't really need to have

1090
00:51:28,320 --> 00:51:30,160
all of those people who don't 
want to contribute. 

1091
00:51:30,920 --> 00:51:33,040
But we can take all of the mess 
away from the people who do want

1092
00:51:33,040 --> 00:51:35,200
to contribute, and they can get 
back to doing the human element,

1093
00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:37,600
which is actually speaking and 
dealing with people. 

1094
00:51:38,000 --> 00:51:41,600
I think that's where Matt Giggs 
and Matt Burgess, Mark, Matt 

1095
00:51:41,600 --> 00:51:44,840
Giggs and Mark Burgess initially
didn't realise they're on the 

1096
00:51:44,840 --> 00:51:46,520
same team. 
They fought, they're against 

1097
00:51:46,520 --> 00:51:47,800
each other. 
I think they've said it's in the

1098
00:51:47,800 --> 00:51:49,280
podcast recently. 
It's like, no, no, we want the 

1099
00:51:49,280 --> 00:51:51,560
same thing. 
And I think that I, I can never 

1100
00:51:51,560 --> 00:51:55,680
remember exactly, but I think 
Mark has a saying of automate or

1101
00:51:55,680 --> 00:51:58,400
systemate, automate or 
systemizer repeatable. 

1102
00:51:58,400 --> 00:52:01,200
So you can humanize the 
exceptional and that's 

1103
00:52:01,200 --> 00:52:04,360
everything that the the tools 
are doing there is that you can 

1104
00:52:04,360 --> 00:52:08,480
go sit in someone's living room 
and show them that you care. 

1105
00:52:08,480 --> 00:52:11,200
Be a shoulder to cry on when 
they're having a difficult time 

1106
00:52:11,200 --> 00:52:14,360
with their sale or purchase. 
Because maybe one day a robot 

1107
00:52:14,360 --> 00:52:16,040
from the AI world will be able 
to do that. 

1108
00:52:16,040 --> 00:52:19,320
But until that time, they can't 
go sit in someone's living room 

1109
00:52:19,320 --> 00:52:21,680
and say, I'm really sorry. 
Look them in the eyes. 

1110
00:52:21,680 --> 00:52:23,440
Your cell's falling through. 
But here's the plan. 

1111
00:52:24,080 --> 00:52:26,880
Yeah, because it's relatable. 
Like the the the difference that

1112
00:52:26,880 --> 00:52:30,360
we have as humans over computers
is we have lived experience. 

1113
00:52:30,960 --> 00:52:32,600
There is no lived experience in 
AI. 

1114
00:52:32,600 --> 00:52:35,680
It's yeah, I can take all the 
information from other people's 

1115
00:52:35,680 --> 00:52:38,200
experience and distill it down 
to an answer if it's suitable 

1116
00:52:38,200 --> 00:52:40,240
for you. 
But it's never genuine because 

1117
00:52:40,240 --> 00:52:42,920
there isn't lived experience, 
which is why people struggle 

1118
00:52:42,920 --> 00:52:43,840
with certain. 
But you know what? 

1119
00:52:43,840 --> 00:52:46,280
People go, oh, and I don't want 
him showing me around because 

1120
00:52:46,280 --> 00:52:50,480
he's young and like, they don't 
really mean that he's 19 and he 

1121
00:52:50,480 --> 00:52:52,520
can't do it. 
They mean, but he doesn't have 

1122
00:52:52,520 --> 00:52:55,280
any experience that I can relate
to that makes me feel like it's 

1123
00:52:55,280 --> 00:52:57,240
genuine when we talk face to 
face. 

1124
00:52:57,600 --> 00:52:59,240
Unless he has and it surprises 
me. 

1125
00:52:59,240 --> 00:53:01,960
So like, there's just no lived 
experience with AI. 

1126
00:53:02,080 --> 00:53:05,440
Like the human element of it, 
your experience is really all 

1127
00:53:05,680 --> 00:53:06,920
that matters. 
The experience that you can 

1128
00:53:06,920 --> 00:53:09,680
offer clients is what matters. 
And if the experience is better 

1129
00:53:09,680 --> 00:53:13,600
because the relationship is 
better, then yeah, of course AI 

1130
00:53:13,600 --> 00:53:16,600
needs to do all the stuff that 
doesn't have anything to do with

1131
00:53:16,600 --> 00:53:18,720
the human experience. 
Very true. 

1132
00:53:18,720 --> 00:53:22,320
You've made me think of in my 
early years as a branch manager,

1133
00:53:22,320 --> 00:53:25,480
I was 24 without a beard and 
looked about 12. 

1134
00:53:26,800 --> 00:53:29,160
The question that would get 
asked would be something like, 

1135
00:53:29,560 --> 00:53:31,440
so how long have you been an 
estate agent for? 

1136
00:53:31,440 --> 00:53:33,880
I'm like, you're basically 
asking me how old am I? 

1137
00:53:33,880 --> 00:53:35,400
Can I trust you to sell my 
house? 

1138
00:53:35,840 --> 00:53:38,840
And I've been doing it at 24. 
I've been doing it like 8 years.

1139
00:53:38,840 --> 00:53:42,600
So I started at 16. 
So it's like about a decade. 

1140
00:53:43,120 --> 00:53:45,120
And I'd like jokingly be like, 
do you want to know my 

1141
00:53:45,120 --> 00:53:47,840
moisturizer like regime or 
something like ha, ha, ha, ha. 

1142
00:53:48,320 --> 00:53:51,600
And then I have I'm I'm a proper
data geek, but my way to like 

1143
00:53:51,600 --> 00:53:56,440
win them over with my maturity 
of I wasn't very mature outside 

1144
00:53:56,440 --> 00:53:58,080
of work. 
The maturity was knowing the 

1145
00:53:58,080 --> 00:54:01,240
numbers inside out of because 
the other guy came out and just 

1146
00:54:01,240 --> 00:54:03,280
put his finger in the air and 
went, yeah, I've sold loads of 

1147
00:54:03,280 --> 00:54:04,800
these before. 
It's going to be 500. 

1148
00:54:04,800 --> 00:54:07,720
Whereas I go the average pounds 
of square foot in the area is 

1149
00:54:07,720 --> 00:54:11,400
this, but you've got a S facing 
garden, granite worked open 

1150
00:54:11,400 --> 00:54:14,120
views, probably going to get 10%
above the average for the area. 

1151
00:54:14,120 --> 00:54:16,880
You're going to get 550 and like
how the other guy didn't say 

1152
00:54:16,920 --> 00:54:19,840
that really, OK. 
I'll tell you what I learned 

1153
00:54:19,840 --> 00:54:26,240
from Mark Burgess is he's 
wonderful at giving you the 

1154
00:54:26,240 --> 00:54:28,400
information that you need in 
order to trust him in the 1st 

1155
00:54:28,400 --> 00:54:30,080
place. 
And I think he realizes it 

1156
00:54:30,080 --> 00:54:33,280
because he knows, right. 
So like, he'll teach this, which

1157
00:54:33,280 --> 00:54:35,120
is have you ever seen him speak 
on stage? 

1158
00:54:35,200 --> 00:54:38,240
Yeah, so he'll open up and 
you'll know this to be true. 

1159
00:54:38,560 --> 00:54:42,680
He'll open up with Mark Burgess,
who was addicted to drugs when I

1160
00:54:42,680 --> 00:54:45,760
was a teenager. 
And then I fell into a group of 

1161
00:54:45,760 --> 00:54:47,200
entrepreneurs. 
And then in that group of 

1162
00:54:47,200 --> 00:54:49,280
entrepreneurs there was these 
people. 

1163
00:54:49,280 --> 00:54:52,400
And then I was on Forbes list of
100 most influential people in 

1164
00:54:52,400 --> 00:54:54,080
business. 
Then I wrote 2 best selling 

1165
00:54:54,080 --> 00:54:55,760
books and then I'm on 3rd best 
selling books. 

1166
00:54:55,760 --> 00:54:59,680
And he gives you all of this 
stuff that tells you now the 

1167
00:54:59,680 --> 00:55:02,400
stuff I'm about to tell you, You
can trust me. 

1168
00:55:03,200 --> 00:55:05,840
And so if you go on my LinkedIn 
now, this change because of Rob,

1169
00:55:05,840 --> 00:55:07,080
and Rob was like, this is what 
Mark does. 

1170
00:55:07,080 --> 00:55:09,280
This is what Mark teaches. 
You need to do these things. 

1171
00:55:09,280 --> 00:55:12,000
So if you go on my LinkedIn now,
it will say my experience in the

1172
00:55:12,000 --> 00:55:15,320
industry. 
It will say I'm speaking on 

1173
00:55:15,320 --> 00:55:19,120
podcasts and stages. 
It will say property X. 

1174
00:55:19,120 --> 00:55:21,720
But it's all of those things 
that give me the establishment 

1175
00:55:21,720 --> 00:55:25,240
to say. 
Now when I say these things, I'm

1176
00:55:25,240 --> 00:55:29,560
going to trust you because 
people need to know that really.

1177
00:55:29,560 --> 00:55:31,800
And you can be 19, you can be 
24, you can be whatever age you 

1178
00:55:31,800 --> 00:55:34,680
are, 24 years old of eight years
experience like the guys in the 

1179
00:55:34,680 --> 00:55:37,200
office should have been saying 
that when Simon comes out to see

1180
00:55:37,200 --> 00:55:38,120
you. 
Let me just tell you a little 

1181
00:55:38,120 --> 00:55:40,960
bit about Simon Now. 
Simon has been about 8 years. 

1182
00:55:41,560 --> 00:55:46,520
We've listed 500 properties over
the last 12 months, 300 of those

1183
00:55:46,520 --> 00:55:49,560
actually very similar to yours. 
We've got experience in by 

1184
00:55:49,560 --> 00:55:51,240
selling property in this 
particular location. 

1185
00:55:51,240 --> 00:55:52,960
Simon's actually been the 
pioneer of leading that. 

1186
00:55:53,240 --> 00:55:55,520
He's going to tell you how we 
get proven process, which is 

1187
00:55:55,520 --> 00:55:57,200
proven for all of these 
customers, blah, blah, blah, 

1188
00:55:57,200 --> 00:55:58,560
blah, blah, blah. 
And then you go for that story. 

1189
00:55:58,560 --> 00:56:01,160
And then it's like, OK, it 
doesn't really matter how old 

1190
00:56:01,560 --> 00:56:04,040
Simon is because I just want 
Simon to give me the information

1191
00:56:04,040 --> 00:56:06,720
I need about this specific 
thing, which clearly he's an 

1192
00:56:06,720 --> 00:56:09,360
expert at. 
And Mark's brilliant at that, 

1193
00:56:09,440 --> 00:56:11,640
giving you the let me give you 
all of this stuff. 

1194
00:56:11,640 --> 00:56:14,240
So now anything I say, you're 
just going to believe me because

1195
00:56:14,240 --> 00:56:16,800
I've got all of the credentials 
behind me to back it up. 

1196
00:56:17,240 --> 00:56:18,640
Love that three things come to 
mind. 

1197
00:56:18,640 --> 00:56:21,000
I couldn't help but think of 
Alan Hanson all those years ago 

1198
00:56:21,000 --> 00:56:22,560
saying you'll never win anything
with kids. 

1199
00:56:22,560 --> 00:56:23,560
It was a little bit wrong with 
that. 

1200
00:56:23,560 --> 00:56:30,400
We united your website, it says 
5000 plus moved over 950 Google 

1201
00:56:30,400 --> 00:56:34,680
reviews, 4.86 stars, over 12,000
followers on social. 

1202
00:56:34,680 --> 00:56:38,200
So again, giving that that 
credibility. 

1203
00:56:38,200 --> 00:56:40,680
And you actually, I think when I
messaged you on LinkedIn, you 

1204
00:56:40,680 --> 00:56:43,800
said something like PS loft of 
mission statement. 

1205
00:56:44,360 --> 00:56:47,120
So when someone sees my LinkedIn
by, I'm on a mission, and we'll 

1206
00:56:47,120 --> 00:56:49,480
always be on that mission to be 
the most useful person to 

1207
00:56:49,480 --> 00:56:51,800
follow. 
Yeah, I thought it was a really 

1208
00:56:51,800 --> 00:56:55,120
good missing statement because 
it's it's not about you, it's 

1209
00:56:55,120 --> 00:56:57,040
about everybody else. 
And I loved that. 

1210
00:56:57,720 --> 00:56:59,360
Cool, right. 
Final question, Shane. 

1211
00:56:59,360 --> 00:57:01,120
I have a closing tradition on 
the podcast which I've 

1212
00:57:01,120 --> 00:57:03,920
completely ripped off from 
Stephen Butler on the Diary CEO.

1213
00:57:04,280 --> 00:57:07,600
So he gets his last guest to ask
the next guest a question, not 

1214
00:57:07,600 --> 00:57:10,200
knowing who they'll be, and then
he monetises it and sees 

1215
00:57:10,200 --> 00:57:13,000
conversation cards. 
I've got 3 packs of them so I'm 

1216
00:57:13,000 --> 00:57:16,200
keeping him in the money so he 
can invest Dragons down. 

1217
00:57:17,080 --> 00:57:20,400
So the question I want you to 
answer is. 

1218
00:57:23,680 --> 00:57:29,440
Choose me a good one I. 
Was going to make a really bad 

1219
00:57:29,440 --> 00:57:31,240
joke about Man United, but I'm 
not going to do that. 

1220
00:57:32,040 --> 00:57:34,280
He's a United fan as well. 
Stephen Bartlett So. 

1221
00:57:34,720 --> 00:57:40,680
He's a Man United fan, Yeah. 
Who in your life gave you a 

1222
00:57:40,680 --> 00:57:43,960
chance or believed in you when 
no one else did? 

1223
00:57:45,480 --> 00:57:51,680
When no one else did. 
Probably Russell. 

1224
00:57:52,080 --> 00:57:54,720
I thought I've thought that when
I was reading it, but from what 

1225
00:57:54,720 --> 00:57:57,080
you said earlier. 
Yeah, probably Russell. 

1226
00:57:57,360 --> 00:58:00,040
I don't know how much the latter
is true. 

1227
00:58:00,040 --> 00:58:03,440
Like, to put on the whole why me
stuff, Nobody believed in me. 

1228
00:58:03,840 --> 00:58:07,400
I think I've had, I think I've 
actually been quite fortunate 

1229
00:58:07,400 --> 00:58:10,640
over in my life that most of the
people who mean anything to me 

1230
00:58:10,640 --> 00:58:13,320
anyway, their opinions, who've 
been anything to me that I 

1231
00:58:13,320 --> 00:58:19,320
value, do believe in me anyway. 
But Russell was the one who made

1232
00:58:19,320 --> 00:58:23,200
me believe in me. 
And for that I'm, I'm eternally 

1233
00:58:23,200 --> 00:58:23,920
grateful. 
Yeah. 

1234
00:58:25,200 --> 00:58:27,560
I love that. 
What a beautiful way to end. 

1235
00:58:27,560 --> 00:58:30,040
And Russell, if you're 
listening, you do still need to 

1236
00:58:30,040 --> 00:58:32,560
come on this podcast, wink, wink
and nudge, nudge and let that be

1237
00:58:32,560 --> 00:58:35,280
your your sign as you've got a 
couple of lovely mentions. 

1238
00:58:35,280 --> 00:58:38,560
So for everyone listening, 
please do like review, 

1239
00:58:38,560 --> 00:58:40,160
subscribe, follow, share the 
podcast. 

1240
00:58:40,360 --> 00:58:43,360
And that just leaves me to say 
Mr. Shane Harris invo, you are a

1241
00:58:43,360 --> 00:58:45,440
Man United fan. 
Thank you very much for being an

1242
00:58:45,440 --> 00:58:46,720
amazing guest. 
I really appreciate it. 

1243
00:58:46,720 --> 00:58:48,120
It's. 
Been awesome mate, thanks for 

1244
00:58:48,120 --> 00:58:49,080
the chat, really appreciate it.