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Hi and welcome to K Let's Talk, 
the podcast where we break down 

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storytelling across books, 
television and film with a 

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special love for book to screen 
adaptation. 

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Here we talk about craft, 
character arcs, structure, 

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dialogue, visual language, and 
the creative choices that shape 

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how a story lands. 
If you like thoughtful, 

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conversational, deep dives into 
the stories you can't stop 

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thinking about, you're in the 
right place. 

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Let's talk. 
This episode will include 

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spoilers for Season 2 of Heated 
Rivalry and The Long Game. 

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Hello everyone, and welcome back
to the podcast. 

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Today we are going to be 
recording a part three of my Q&A

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series with two questions that 
came up multiple times in my DMS

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that I felt needed more time to 
elaborate upon. 

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And I also wanted to bring in my
friend Low to help me answer 

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them. 
So this is Low. 

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As I've mentioned before, we are
writing a novel series together 

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and she is my creative partner 
for many projects. 

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We met in college when she 
started managing our hockey team

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and joined with next to no 
knowledge of the sport. 

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She majored in English and 
Anthropology and wrote her 

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thesis on hockey culture after 
three years as a part of our 

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team. 
And I'm excited to have Lowe's 

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perspective because she is 
someone who came into hockey as 

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an adult with an outside 
perspective where most hockey 

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players are born into the sport 
and the culture that comes with 

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it. 
Her time on our team allowed her

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to be immersed in hockey the 
culture first hand. 

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She was in the locker room with 
us at team meals and even moved 

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in with us every year during our
six week winter break. 

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But she also can do a little 
translating for us as someone 

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who has a unique relationship 
with the sport, having not 

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played but then on a team. 
So this is low. 

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Thanks, Kay. 
Just to give everyone an idea of

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what I was working with when I 
joined the team, it was game 

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day. 
Our coach was showing me how to 

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code game tape on the laptop and
I had to ask her what a penalty 

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kill was. 
So somehow it did not come up in

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the interview. 
Thank God because I had the time

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of my life. 
Filling your water bottles and 

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sometimes recording your games. 
I would say it was a 5050 shot 

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that it got recorded. 
So there's hope for anyone 

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listening who wants to learn 
about hockey. 

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Yes. 
So these questions were ones 

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that low and I actually 
discussed in pretty great length

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outside of me being asked them 
for the Q&A. 

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So I wanted to make sure that 
when I was covering them, I 

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included her because we touched 
on so many really good points 

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when we were discussing it 
outside of recording a podcast. 

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So the first one, the question 
is, in general, why do you think

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the TV show changed it so that 
Shane and Ilya did not hook up 

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again for years between the All 
Star game and before the 

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Olympics, Since in the books 
they are hooking up pretty much 

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nonstop once they start. 
So we have differing ideas about

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why this show change was made. 
I think I'm taking a more 

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diplomatic view and my argument 
is more because of budget 

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constraints or logistics of 
shooting. 

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But I also have some insight 
into maybe why Jacob would have 

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wanted to age the characters up 
for the kind of greater 

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conversation about their 
relationship, and I don't know 

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if I've convinced low of that 
argument. 

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Here's the deal, you make great 
points. 

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I still reject the principle 
because I just like the idea 

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better that they're hooking up 
nonstop and it makes a lot more 

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sense why they're willing to 
risk things for each other and 

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have such an attachment when the
frequency of their interactions 

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is more prevalent. 
I think you make a lot of sense 

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and I can totally see the 
benefits. 

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However, when I am watching it 
and they are so into each other 

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and then three seasons go by 
before their next interaction 

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for no good reason, give me a 
goddamn break. 

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It's now occurring to me also 
that you are much more proper 

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than me, and I'm going to 
probably let some swear. 

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Words. 
You can do that. 

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Well, I just have to label the 
Yeah episode as explicit. 

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E rating OK. 
Swear away. 

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Sorry in advance. 
Swear away. 

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OK, my argument for why they 
would have done it this way is 

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they are so young when we meet 
them. 

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And by aging them up and having 
them be older when they choose 

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to have sex for the first time, 
it puts them on a more equal 

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footing where we can see Shane 
actively choosing to say no to 

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Ilya for those two years. 
And then they both consciously 

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make the decision to come 
together in that way at that 

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time. 
And you and I both touched on 

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how the dysfunction hits them 
differently when they're older. 

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Whereas in the book, it very 
much feels like Shane goes along

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with the status quo, which is 
that Ilya very much initiates 

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all of their hookups first and 
he's the one driving the the 

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train and like pushing forward 
and constantly reaching out to 

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arrange the hookups. 
Whereas Shane is still in his 

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internal world trying to resist 
it very heavily, but he can't 

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resist it because he doesn't 
have that, I think, confidence 

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yet, or maturity yet, or greater
understanding of what he 

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actually wants. 
He's just basing his caving in 

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off of what feels good in the 
moment, and then he feels guilty

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about it afterwards. 
So as the show depicts it, we 

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actually get to see Shane have a
backbone and resist him, and 

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he's deciding that even though 
he is capable of resisting him, 

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he doesn't want to anymore. 
And I will say that is your 

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strongest point. 
And I totally see the value in 

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that, especially when we have 
talked about normal people and 

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comparing them. 
And in normal people, the 2 

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characters are together from 
high school on in some form and 

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are totally emotionally 
dependent on each other. 

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And so I think it's really 
important that these two 

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characters are really fully 
actualized people that have 

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their own lives and develop 
their identities as team mates 

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and players in the league 
without each other, despite the 

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like, rivalry that's going on. 
So I do understand that the 

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value in that. 
However, I think that Shane 

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could have done that in one 
season of resisting and proving 

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it to himself. 
And I also think that Hudson has

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said that Shane has had sexual 
experiences before Ilya, but 

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it's the first time that he 
wants to be there. 

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And so I just don't think that 
he is going to experience that 

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and then say no to it. 
I think that he is desperate to 

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have experiences that make him 
feel like he can relate to other

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people in in the room, on the 
team. 

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And I don't think that he would 
resist it for three years. 

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And I, I wouldn't want him to. 
I want him. 

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I want them to enjoy each other.
I do feel like having him resist

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him though, is in a way serving 
2 functions because I think it 

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shows that Shane has the 
discipline that the show is 

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really trying to hammer home. 
So it's another way to make that

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abundantly clear that when Shane
wants to be disciplined, he is 

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very good at it. 
Because I think in the book, 

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it's a little more implied, not 
shown in any other way. 

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It's more of like a statement, 
and then the show has to find a 

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way to showcase that. 
So you could argue that this 

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would be a way of showcasing 
that. 

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I also think that for Shane's 
character, so much of his 

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actions are rooted in his 
feelings of shame about the 

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whole thing, and that's 
something that takes him almost 

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all the way up until the finale 
to really kind of fully grapple 

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with. 
And something I mentioned to you

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was that he gives in not because
of a conclusion he comes to. 

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It's more of a acceptance of the
fact that having Ilya in any 

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capacity for a couple of hours 
multiple times a year is still 

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worth the shame and pain that 
comes after it. 

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And to me, that's really telling
that he put himself in a 

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position where he would 
experience life knowing that 

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that was an option and then 
removing it as an option for 

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himself. 
And then realizing that it's not

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better without the hookups with 
Ilya, even though he knows that 

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hooking up with Ilya is going to
make him feel so shameful 

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afterwards. 
So to me it's like a really 

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hammering home that his life is 
quite sad internally, like he's,

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I don't know, just accepting of 
the fact that like I'm going to 

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feel like shit with or without 
him probably, you know, there to

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hook up with. 
And I don't think that Shane 

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thinks that his life is sad, but
I think that he probably feels 

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lonely when he's at Hayden's 
house with his family army of 

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Rugrats and is just an add on. 
So I think he probably decides 

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that he'd rather not be lonely. 
And I think that that's a great 

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point. 
However, I just, I'm just, I'm 

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watching it and I want them to 
be hooking up. 

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So I don't know. 
I like their two teen boys like 

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that. 
Just don't see. 

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Yeah. 
I mean, it's literally like Ilya

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offering to be like delivered to
his door and he's going to say 

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no for three years. 
I would. 

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I don't know. 
I'm. 

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I'm following my heart there. 
Do you think that we had talked 

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about how in the earlier 
episodes the order of events has

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moved around so much that it's 
hard for you to even compare the

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two mediums? 
Because the timing of when they 

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hook up in the book and then all
of the subsequent hookups that 

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they do have in the book that we
are missing from the show are 

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rearranged so heavily that you 
wouldn't be able to like one for

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one represent it accurately 
anyway. 100% I think they're 

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entire 2 entirely different 
pieces of art. 

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Normally with an adaptation, you
you do want it to follow so 

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closely and represent it. 
And normally when it diverges, 

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it's just missing something. 
And here they make decisions for

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the sake of telling the story 
and it doesn't feel like 

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anything's missing I guess is 
the difference. 

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Like it's not like to your 
point, there's so many changes 

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that you can't compare them in 
their apples and oranges, 

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whereas normally you can compare
and you can just see where 

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something could be and it's not.
Yeah. 

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Do you also feel like I found 
that having the first time that 

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they have sex with one another 
be after that long of a wait and

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the anticipation of it and the 
fact that prior to when they 

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originally planned to have sex 
for the first time, it was like 

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a near miss situation with the 
snowstorm. 

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And then I want to have more 
context as to why they didn't 

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reschedule after that, because 
that's the piece that I wish 

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there was more of an explanation
on. 

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It just kind of seems like the 
one time they had planned to do 

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that, it didn't work out. 
And then did both of them get 

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cold feet and not reengage? 
But then you make the argument 

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of all the text messages in the 
montage that Ilyas sending where

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he's trying to reengage and 
Shane, I think in my head gets 

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spooked. 
It's like the snowstorm gave him

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that like slap back into reality
that he had been denying 

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himself. 
And he's so literal that he 

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probably felt like maybe it's a 
good thing that happened because

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we really shouldn't be doing 
this. 

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Because the whole time in the 
book, he's thinking to himself, 

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we really shouldn't be doing 
this. 

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And he only does it because the 
opportunity presents itself. 

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So then when the opportunity is 
removed, he can actually make 

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the decision. 
We're not doing this. 

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Yeah, I think he makes the 
decision that he's going to hook

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up with Ilya in three weeks when
he's under Ilya. 

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And so when that decision is 
negated and he has to make it 

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when he is Shane Hollander and 
Yuna's texting him and he's, you

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know, being Shane Hollander, 
then it's a lot harder for him 

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to make that decision. 
Yeah. 

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But the idea that 2 teen boys go
from I'm going to see you in 

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three weeks and to have sex with
you 2 three seasons is 

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outrageous to me. 
However, I will cross, you know,

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party lines to say that the 
device of Ilya texting him for 

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that long when he has such a 
reputation as a womanizer and an

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instigator, I think that that 
persistence proves something to 

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Shane that he is not the toy of 
the day or something and that, 

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like it demonstrates. 
He has genuine interest in him. 

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Yeah, because Ilya is certainly 
hard to read for Shane and 

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probably for people in general, 
like because he doesn't get 

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serious. 
But I think that that 

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persistence is a great way to 
demonstrate it. 

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Do you think that because 
there's that long gap, and also 

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to your point, Ilya persisting 
for that long, when I read the 

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actual scene in the book where 
they have sex for the first 

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00:13:04,840 --> 00:13:09,360
time, the show, because they've 
done this, makes that scene so 

227
00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:12,600
much more emotional. 
And then the music adds on top 

228
00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:14,560
of that. 
And then the added scene in the 

229
00:13:14,560 --> 00:13:17,880
stairway adds on top of that. 
And to me, that's another reason

230
00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:21,480
why they would have changed it 
so that the structure of that 

231
00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:25,440
scene and the significance of it
in the over arching story, the 

232
00:13:25,440 --> 00:13:28,520
timeline of their story 
together, it feels like a very 

233
00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:33,200
big pillar that in the book 
isn't as big of a pillar because

234
00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:34,680
it doesn't have that emotional 
weight. 

235
00:13:34,720 --> 00:13:38,440
And if I'm Jacob and I'm trying 
to create story beats in the 

236
00:13:38,760 --> 00:13:43,680
whole of the story, episode 2 
has to function in some way as 

237
00:13:43,760 --> 00:13:47,440
the bedrock of their foundation.
Because episodes one and two are

238
00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:50,640
very much setting the stage for 
456. 

239
00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:55,280
I don't think you can create 
that without having the first 

240
00:13:55,280 --> 00:13:59,200
time they sleep together be a 
more emotional moment than it 

241
00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:02,480
was written in the book. 
Quality over quantity is what 

242
00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:05,280
we're shooting for in the TV 
show for sure. 

243
00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:12,040
And I think if they had 810, 
dare I hope, 12 episodes, then 

244
00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:14,000
they probably would have been 
hooking up that whole time 

245
00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:18,640
because they would have had the 
time and space to show that. 

246
00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:24,280
And I think that the value, and 
that comes up again later, we'll

247
00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:26,640
talk about in in in another 
montage. 

248
00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:31,200
But I, I guess I attribute a lot
of it to how many episodes they 

249
00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:34,600
had and how much time and money 
they had. 

250
00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:38,600
And so for me, I think if they 
had the choice, then they 

251
00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:40,440
probably would be hooking up the
whole time. 

252
00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:41,920
And so they probably should be 
hooking up the whole time. 

253
00:14:42,960 --> 00:14:44,880
And I'm going to die on that 
hill. 

254
00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:47,960
And you're allowed to die on 
that hill. 

255
00:14:49,280 --> 00:14:55,440
OK, The next question is between
the end of Episode 2 in Vegas 

256
00:14:55,480 --> 00:14:58,640
and the tuna melt scene, it 
really feels like there's a huge

257
00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:01,400
page turned for Ilya. 
He goes from being extremely 

258
00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:04,960
guarded and unable to connect 
with Shane in Vegas to actively 

259
00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:07,520
trying to deepen his connection 
with Shane at his home. 

260
00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:10,360
I know there's a montage at the 
beginning of episode 4 that is 

261
00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:12,400
meant to bridge this gap for us 
as viewers. 

262
00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:15,800
Why did Jacob not take the 
opportunity to include a scene 

263
00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:18,400
to help us see how and why? 
Ilias approach to his 

264
00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:21,880
relationship to Shane changed so
dramatically between these two 

265
00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:25,960
scenes and I am still not sure 
what happened for him to decide 

266
00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:28,720
to plan this elaborate day to 
grow closer to him. 

267
00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:30,720
Would love to hear you talk more
about this. 

268
00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:35,040
I have talked about the tuna 
melt scene from multiple angles 

269
00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:40,720
in my deep dive of the episode 
and the scenes and then also in 

270
00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:44,440
previous Q&A parts. 
So a lot of this I've touched on

271
00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:48,680
indirectly, but I wanted LO to 
have a say in this too because I

272
00:15:48,680 --> 00:15:51,200
think she brings some 
interesting points to the table 

273
00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:55,040
that I had not thought about. 
Mainly that we both are really 

274
00:15:55,120 --> 00:16:01,160
adamant that if you haven't read
the scene from Vegas in Ilya's 

275
00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:05,120
point of view that's on Rachel 
Reed's website, it's really hard

276
00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:09,400
for you to get any sort of sense
of Ilya's motivation going into 

277
00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:12,920
tune him out. 
Clearly it's almost impossible 

278
00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:17,600
because the way he's written in 
the book version and shown in 

279
00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:20,720
the show withholds so much of 
his emotions. 

280
00:16:21,160 --> 00:16:25,040
And that's on purpose because he
is doing that actively in 

281
00:16:25,360 --> 00:16:27,960
passage from Rachel Reid's 
website as well. 

282
00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:31,360
So without that added context, 
it would be near impossible to 

283
00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:35,320
get any sort of insight into how
Ilya actually is feeling in the 

284
00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:38,800
Vegas scene, because it feels 
like he's being extremely 

285
00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:40,880
guarded and unable to connect 
with Shane. 

286
00:16:40,920 --> 00:16:45,040
But that's by design. 
And that that changes a lot when

287
00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:48,880
you know that he's fighting for 
his life to be that way. 

288
00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:50,840
Absolutely. 
And just just because we 

289
00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:54,360
mentioned it a little bit in 
passing here, there is a deleted

290
00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:58,280
scene on Rachel Reed's website 
of Las Vegas. 

291
00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:00,520
I call it the we didn't Even 
kiss scene because there's a 

292
00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:06,079
couple of Vegas scenes. 
And the TLDR of that is that the

293
00:17:06,079 --> 00:17:09,880
entire time that they're at the 
award show and presenting the 

294
00:17:09,880 --> 00:17:13,839
award, Ilia is just desperately 
trying to hold himself together 

295
00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:18,400
because he just wants to like 
wrap Shane up in his arms and 

296
00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:23,520
emotionally fall apart with him.
And so like when they are 

297
00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:28,040
supposed to be on presenting the
awards and Shane says, where 

298
00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:30,720
were you? 
Who and who were you busy with? 

299
00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:35,920
Actually, Ilya was in according 
like if you are combining the 

300
00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:41,600
book and the show, Ilya was in 
the very bathroom that they go 

301
00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:45,440
to later having a panic attack 
because he had seen Shane and he

302
00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:48,000
Shane looks so good and he wants
Shane so much. 

303
00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:51,520
Later when he doesn't get up to 
say goodbye to Shane in the 

304
00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:56,560
hotel room, it's because he 
knows if he gets up he's going 

305
00:17:56,560 --> 00:18:00,080
to fall apart saying goodbye to 
Shane and he doesn't want to do 

306
00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:01,960
that. 
And we didn't even kiss. 

307
00:18:02,040 --> 00:18:05,320
In Ilias perspective they don't 
kiss because he knows that if he

308
00:18:05,320 --> 00:18:07,800
starts kissing him, all he's 
going to want to do is kiss him 

309
00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:10,480
and never stop and fall apart in
his arms. 

310
00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:14,840
So there's a theme here that 
Ilia is so emotionally raw and 

311
00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:18,840
attached to Shane that he's with
every fiber of his being, just 

312
00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:21,080
trying to hold it in during that
whole interaction. 

313
00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:22,840
And so he comes off incredibly 
cold. 

314
00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:26,680
And the complete opposite is 
that he's probably more attached

315
00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:28,640
to Shane. 
Than Shane is to him. 

316
00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:30,680
Exactly. 
Yep 100%. 

317
00:18:30,760 --> 00:18:37,960
So when we leave the Vegas scene
and it ends very much catering 

318
00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:42,760
to Shane's emotions, I would say
because everyone talks about the

319
00:18:42,760 --> 00:18:46,440
we didn't even kiss portion and 
not a lot of people like hanker 

320
00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:50,640
in on Ilya sitting in that bed 
with the cigarette in his mouth 

321
00:18:51,120 --> 00:18:54,760
completely dissociating and how 
he's frozen there. 

322
00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:58,560
I think people remember that we 
didn't even kiss part of it 

323
00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:02,800
because that's what it ends on 
and fail to register that Ilya 

324
00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:05,640
is just as upset as Shane in 
that moment. 

325
00:19:06,360 --> 00:19:11,520
Yes, I also want to back up and 
say or no, and This is why I 

326
00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:14,400
call it the we didn't even kiss 
because the Vegas rooftop is an 

327
00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:18,240
entirely different scene from 
years before, so or a year 

328
00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:21,440
before or something. 
It's from before. 

329
00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:24,680
My point is strike it from the 
record and that's why we called 

330
00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:27,600
we didn't even kiss scene. 
But if we're going back there 

331
00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:30,840
and we're talking about who's 
more attached emotionally, even 

332
00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:37,520
then Ilya is up on that roof and
he says he kind of like caves 

333
00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:40,920
and tells Shane why he's upset. 
He's going home in three days. 

334
00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:44,480
But Shane doesn't catch that 
he's caving and telling him why 

335
00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:46,600
he's upset. 
He thinks he's just randomly 

336
00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:50,520
starting conversation. 
And so he says that's nice and 

337
00:19:50,960 --> 00:19:53,040
tanks that opportunity for 
connection. 

338
00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:57,800
But even then, Ilya is upset 
about something and willing to 

339
00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:01,960
confide in Shane and. 
Yeah, so he's not always as 

340
00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:04,600
closed off as people think he 
is, correct? 

341
00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:08,400
Shane just also can't pick up on
his bids for connection. 

342
00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:11,680
Right. 
And then bringing us back to the

343
00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:14,000
original question about tune 
melt. 

344
00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:17,920
So if you go back to Vegas, we 
didn't even kiss. 

345
00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:21,520
And then it's not really a jump.
It's that he wants to connect 

346
00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:23,040
with Shane. 
He wants to fall apart with 

347
00:20:23,040 --> 00:20:26,640
Shane in Vegas. 
He's holding himself together 

348
00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:29,320
with every fiber of his being to
not do that to Shane. 

349
00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:35,800
And then the montage happens of 
them hooking up consistently for

350
00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:39,080
a while. 
And I think during that time, he

351
00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:45,640
lulls himself into thinking that
he can interact with Shane 

352
00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:48,480
intimately without it being a 
threat. 

353
00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:51,160
Because the whole reason he 
won't fall apart with Shane is 

354
00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:54,240
that that's like emotional 
danger to be vulnerable to 

355
00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:57,400
someone. 
And so I think that during that 

356
00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:00,880
montage, it is him lulling 
himself into being like, it's 

357
00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:04,880
this is OK, like we can do this.
And then because he's lulled 

358
00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:08,840
into that sense of security, 
he's like, we can do this. 

359
00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:13,280
And maybe I can even want a 
little more and I can do a 

360
00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:17,320
little more. 
And maybe he won't notice that 

361
00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:21,760
this relationship is deepening 
if I don't call it out directly.

362
00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:26,920
And so I think the first part of
the question about what changes,

363
00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:30,800
I think Ilya's already Ilya 
wants the tuna melts in Vegas, 

364
00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:35,160
and that is why he is trying to 
just hold himself together. 

365
00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:37,640
He's not even thinking about how
he's coming across to Shane. 

366
00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:41,880
And so nothing changes is the 
short version of that answer. 

367
00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:47,480
It's just that with time and 
frequent interactions, he lulls 

368
00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:52,560
himself into thinking it's OK to
want more and to maybe even act 

369
00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:55,560
on wanting more. 
And then Shane rips his heart 

370
00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:56,520
out and takes it with him. 
When? 

371
00:21:56,520 --> 00:21:59,080
He leaves the tuna, but I'm 
getting out of myself. 

372
00:21:59,120 --> 00:22:05,280
The second-half of this question
is asking why didn't Jacob take 

373
00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:08,320
an opportunity to include a 
scene to help us see how and why

374
00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:10,880
Ilya's approach to his 
relationship changed so 

375
00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:14,560
dramatically. 
I think, Lo, you kind of touched

376
00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:17,120
on that. 
It's because it didn't change 

377
00:22:17,120 --> 00:22:20,080
that dramatically. 
I think that the way that he's 

378
00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:25,080
conveying in the montage that 
the two of them are apart but 

379
00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:28,320
always thinking about each 
other, that from the time they 

380
00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:30,840
meet doesn't change. 
There's really not been a big 

381
00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:35,520
change in how they feel 
throughout the whole series. 

382
00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:38,520
It's more of how much they 
reveal to one another is what 

383
00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:40,960
changes correct. 
The feelings are always the 

384
00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:44,000
same. 
I also think the second part of 

385
00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:47,280
the question is important, which
is I'm still not sure what 

386
00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:50,920
happened for Ilya to decide to 
plan this elaborate day to grow 

387
00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:52,840
closer to shame. 
That's something that a lot of 

388
00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:56,920
people have asked me about, and 
the long and short of it is the 

389
00:22:56,920 --> 00:23:00,440
schedule. 
I think that the two of them are

390
00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:03,960
always looking at their phones 
and looking at the schedule, and

391
00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:07,760
without the schedule play 
playing out in the way that it 

392
00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:10,320
does. 
I don't think Ilya has 

393
00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:14,960
previously had an opportunity 
for him to plan a day like this,

394
00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:19,520
and it's because of that that 
he's doing the tuna melt scene. 

395
00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:21,240
Yeah. 
And for people that don't 

396
00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:25,680
understand what we mean with the
schedule, like games usually 

397
00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:28,680
happen at night in most 
professional sports and in this 

398
00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:30,400
case it happens in the 
afternoon. 

399
00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:34,280
And so that opens up their 
morning because they're not 

400
00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:36,600
going to have morning 
commitments before the game like

401
00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:38,400
they normally. 
Would and the team has travelled

402
00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:42,400
to Boston the day before, so 
Shane is already in the city the

403
00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:45,320
day before. 
Whereas sometimes with a team 

404
00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:48,280
like Montreal and Boston, where 
they're so close together, 

405
00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:53,040
sometimes the team will fly to 
the game the day of just because

406
00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:57,160
schedule permits or logistically
they had a game the night 

407
00:23:57,160 --> 00:24:02,280
before, whatever is the case. 
So Ilya plans this because he's 

408
00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:05,720
able to look at that schedule 
and say this would be the only 

409
00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:10,000
time this season, theoretically,
where he could stay the night 

410
00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:12,440
with me. 
It's a unique opportunity, so he

411
00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:14,560
strikes. 
And he takes advantage of it. 

412
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:19,360
And I think that Rachel's 
summary of what Ilya is thinking

413
00:24:19,360 --> 00:24:24,400
and feeling again is, but it's 
not surprising because I think 

414
00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:27,000
Ilya has always been a very 
calculated person. 

415
00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:31,800
And we just don't see it because
the book is largely in Shane's 

416
00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:34,600
POV, even though it's in third 
person. 

417
00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:38,760
So there are so many scenes 
where she could go back in and 

418
00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:43,440
paint a picture of what Ilya was
doing prior to Shane arriving to

419
00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:46,840
a room or any of those sort of 
interactions that they have 

420
00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:49,320
where he could have been 
planning things in the same way 

421
00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:52,800
that he does in tune him out. 
But this is like the one scene 

422
00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:57,160
that she's given, kind of peeled
the curtain back and confirmed 

423
00:24:57,160 --> 00:24:58,160
things. 
Yeah. 

424
00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:00,600
And I would say. 
Calling this an elaborate day 

425
00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:04,000
that he planned. 
The boy, when he was 18, brought

426
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:06,840
Shane to Toronto for a 
commercial. 

427
00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:10,560
So this is nothing for Ilya. 
He literally. 

428
00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:11,800
It's a great example of what 
I'm. 

429
00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:15,400
Saying yeah, and he. 
Is a lot older now, so this 

430
00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:18,560
isn't very elaborate for him, 
but it is a unique opportunity 

431
00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:20,440
for him to do something he's 
always wanted to do. 

432
00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:27,360
And the montage that we see of 
time allows him to develop the 

433
00:25:27,360 --> 00:25:30,240
confidence that there's just a 
little bit of a change could 

434
00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:34,000
work. 
And again, I think this is a 

435
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:38,960
montage of interaction that we 
can attribute to time and budget

436
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:42,680
to he does a great. 
Job with the montage in the show

437
00:25:43,120 --> 00:25:46,280
because of necessity of that 
being the narrative choice of 

438
00:25:46,360 --> 00:25:48,480
condensing a lot of things into 
a montage. 

439
00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:53,040
But the montages do feel like 
everything that is shown is so 

440
00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:57,560
well thought out and calculated 
that even though we're flying 

441
00:25:57,560 --> 00:26:01,520
through years, you get a very 
clear understanding. 

442
00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:03,920
Like, I like that this 
particular the montage at the 

443
00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:08,960
beginning of Episode 4, we can 
see them both losing interest in

444
00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:12,320
the things that used to be of 
interest to them. 

445
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:15,920
Particularly with Ilya, we see 
him partying with Svetlana a lot

446
00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:19,120
and hooking up with people over 
the course of the montage. 

447
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:23,360
And slowly he's more and more 
wrapped up in his phone and less

448
00:26:23,360 --> 00:26:25,080
interested in the people around 
him. 

449
00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:30,040
So that, we know, is a very big 
change for the character that's 

450
00:26:30,120 --> 00:26:33,080
conveyed without words in a very
concise way. 

451
00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:38,200
And then Shane, they use his 
photo shoots as he's distracted 

452
00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:41,480
on set and he doesn't look like 
he wants to be there. 

453
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:44,760
And they're also a great 
narrative device for how his 

454
00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:49,360
persona in public opinion is so 
different from who he is as a 

455
00:26:49,360 --> 00:26:51,880
person. 
Because we now know that he 

456
00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:55,160
likes ginger ale, but he's doing
commercials for orange soda. 

457
00:26:55,680 --> 00:27:00,720
And those details are again, 
really effective of condensing 

458
00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:05,600
really big topics into visuals 
and not having to explain them 

459
00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:07,920
so heavy handedly. 
And then? 

460
00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:13,920
If we are thinking about Ilya in
Vegas wanting to connect with 

461
00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:17,200
Shane desperately holding 
himself back and then Shane 

462
00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:20,720
crushes him into a melts when he
does let himself want to 

463
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:22,760
connect. 
And then people think that Shane

464
00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:27,360
or Ilya is really cold at All 
Star when Shane is trying to 

465
00:27:27,360 --> 00:27:30,800
reconnect them at post Rose 
Landry and he's saying this 

466
00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:35,840
isn't a big deal to me we fuck 
it's fine and simple. 

467
00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:37,160
It's. 
Simple. 

468
00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:41,920
And I think that that is a 
direct tie to like, he's 

469
00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:44,480
basically just back at Vegas. 
We didn't even kiss. 

470
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:47,400
And he let himself hope for 
more. 

471
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:52,120
And Shane crushed him. 
And so he is essentially saying 

472
00:27:52,120 --> 00:27:55,520
like, he's a doesn't. 
He's not convinced that Shane's 

473
00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:57,280
not going to freak out if he 
admits it's more. 

474
00:27:57,400 --> 00:27:59,840
And so he's like, you're never 
going to get me to admit it's 

475
00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:03,800
more again, because last time he
freaked out and he doesn't want 

476
00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:06,680
to lose him completely. 
And I think in that moment, 

477
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:09,800
there's no indication that 
Shane's not there to end it in 

478
00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:13,160
the hotel room. 
I think that he is probably 

479
00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:16,520
trying to protect against that. 
And then and he has that thought

480
00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:18,400
in the book. 
That that Shane's coming up to 

481
00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:23,480
the room to end it and it makes 
him nervous before he arrives. 

482
00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:28,360
I also think it's interesting to
think about Ilya's reaction to 

483
00:28:28,360 --> 00:28:30,880
the tuna melt scene and how hurt
he is by it. 

484
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:37,520
To me reiterates just how open 
he is and vulnerable he is in 

485
00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:40,920
this because so many people are 
saying that his the way he 

486
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:44,640
phrases things in the tuna melt 
scene and the way he roundabout 

487
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:48,560
talks about girls is still 
emotionally distant. 

488
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:52,160
But to me, the way that you know
that for him, he's being 

489
00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:55,640
extremely vulnerable is because 
he's not going to be that level 

490
00:28:55,640 --> 00:29:00,440
of hurt by Shane leaving, if not
for laying himself bare. 

491
00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:04,280
And for everybody, laying 
yourself bare looks so different

492
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:07,680
that it's hard for people to 
understand that what Ilya is 

493
00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:11,920
doing equates to that until you 
see how hurt he is by Shane 

494
00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:12,880
leaving. 
Yeah. 

495
00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:16,200
And also. 
How how many acts of self 

496
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:18,320
soothing he is engaging in the 
entire time? 

497
00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:23,400
Like when he's talking to Shane 
he is having to soothe himself. 

498
00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:26,720
Like his finger never stops 
moving around his ear the entire

499
00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:28,360
scene he's side eyeing him, the 
whole. 

500
00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:32,080
Time trying to get it read on 
him and the couch and. 

501
00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:36,520
So to like kind of tie up my 
point about the All Star hotel 

502
00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:40,160
room where Shane is trying to 
talk to him and he is saying 

503
00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:43,880
it's simple. 
I think you can draw a Direct 

504
00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:46,800
Line through Vegas. 
We can even kiss the whole time.

505
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:50,440
He just wants to connect with 
Shane and be with Shane in 

506
00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:54,640
whatever way he thinks is 
allowed and possible. 

507
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:57,520
And at this time, what he thinks
is possible is keeping it 

508
00:29:57,520 --> 00:29:59,640
simple. 
And so he's going to never give 

509
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:02,560
up the party line until. 
Well, anyways, that's a whole 

510
00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:05,960
other conversation about the 
rest of that that scene in. 

511
00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:12,280
Episode 5 is a doozy, yeah, but.
I do think that he tried once in

512
00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:16,280
tuna melt to go for a little 
more and the worst case scenario

513
00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:19,600
happened and he doesn't want to 
happen again and so that's why 

514
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:23,120
he is so resistant to admitting 
anything to Shane about 

515
00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:26,360
emotional significance. 
And he is scared, which makes 

516
00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:28,560
him terrible too. 
Yes, which is such. 

517
00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:30,800
Important. 
I think knowing that line is 

518
00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:35,240
coming in the next episode is so
genius because it allows you to 

519
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:39,760
recontextualize a lot of Ilya's 
behavior and label it as fear. 

520
00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:43,800
Whereas initially you don't have
that ability to label anything 

521
00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:48,360
he does as a response to him 
being so scared when you know in

522
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:52,800
the book and in the passage from
her website that he's terrified.

523
00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:57,040
Terrified and. 
I think the most obvious moment 

524
00:30:57,040 --> 00:31:00,040
of that in the All Star hotel 
room when he's sitting next to 

525
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:04,400
Shane and Shane really corners 
him into if we could be 

526
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:06,800
together. 
And he says we can't be. 

527
00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:08,120
And he said that's not what I 
asked. 

528
00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:12,280
And he's he's fully cornered. 
And so he whips his head around 

529
00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:15,040
and says, what does it matter? 
And Shane flinches. 

530
00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:17,640
And that is when he's most 
scared and when he's most 

531
00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:21,040
terrible. 
So did we answer everything in 

532
00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:22,120
that question? 
I think so. 

533
00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:23,440
Why did Jacob? 
OK. 

534
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:25,680
And the other thing I'll say is 
why did Jacob not take the 

535
00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:29,560
opportunity, time and money? 
I think that think of everything

536
00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:32,640
we could have had is sort of how
I think about the montages, 

537
00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:37,120
because I would like to have 
seen a scene where they're just 

538
00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:40,480
being casual, like they're just 
in the middle of that montage. 

539
00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:43,680
It would be a show only. 
Choice though, because there 

540
00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:49,040
isn't one in between tuna melt 
and Vegas in the book where he 

541
00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:52,480
behaves that way. 
It it really is only the tuna 

542
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:54,960
melt scene where he shifts his 
behavior. 

543
00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:59,280
So that would have been Jacob 
again, providing more exposition

544
00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:02,680
than the than the book provides 
if he were to include a scene to

545
00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:05,400
bridge that gap. 
So I would be I would have been 

546
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:08,040
interested to see what he would 
have written for that to 

547
00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:11,720
accomplish that. 
But I don't know if if Shane and

548
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:16,360
Ilya had a scene where Ilya was 
behaving adjacent to how he is 

549
00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:19,800
in tuna melt and like dipped his
toe in that behavior, I think 

550
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:23,440
Shane would have reacted poorly 
then too, which would have then 

551
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:25,120
prevented tuna melt from 
happening. 

552
00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:27,760
I feel like it's kind of like 
you have to go all in with it 

553
00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:32,560
like Ilya did because he again, 
in Vegas, he's too terrified to 

554
00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:34,240
do it. 
In tuna melt. 

555
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:37,520
He does it and then gets 
recoiled back into himself and 

556
00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:41,240
that incites how he responds in 
episode 5. 

557
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:44,520
If you insert another scene in 
between, I don't think tuna melt

558
00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:49,160
happens and if tuna melt doesn't
happen, then Rose Landry doesn't

559
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:52,080
have, you know, like it's such a
domino effect that I can 

560
00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:54,320
understand why Jacob wouldn't 
want to touch that with a 10 

561
00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:57,840
foot pole because how he would 
have to then rework everything 

562
00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:01,600
else would potentially be really
complicated. 

563
00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:03,240
Well, there you go with your 
logic and. 

564
00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:07,240
Reasoning K always good for it. 
Why? 

565
00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:11,320
Thank you. 
OK, The next question is, it was

566
00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:14,120
unclear to me if Shane's place 
in Montreal was actually the 

567
00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:16,760
investment real estate that it 
was in the book or not. 

568
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:19,080
I feel like that storyline is 
pretty significant. 

569
00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:24,360
So I concur. 
Jacob and Brendan were just on 

570
00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:28,600
another podcast talking about 
this exact thing and why it got 

571
00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:32,480
cut from the show and how they 
rewrote it in order to kind of 

572
00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:36,160
still include that storyline, 
even though they didn't give 

573
00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:39,920
Shane his own hookup pad like he
has in the book. 

574
00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:42,400
And to me, if we're being 
pragmatic, it made sense that 

575
00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:44,680
they put that one on the cutting
room floor. 

576
00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:46,600
But you would resonate with the 
pragmatism. 

577
00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:50,880
I would, yes. 
But yeah, so to make it clear, 

578
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:55,720
Shanes apartment in the show is 
meant to be like a hybrid of the

579
00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:59,360
book version where he says to 
Ilya, when they walk inside of 

580
00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:01,240
it that he owns the unit next 
door. 

581
00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:04,400
And eventually he wants to make 
it into two, like take the two 

582
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:06,080
of them and make it into one 
place. 

583
00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:10,239
Whereas in the book, he has an 
entire building that he bought 

584
00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:14,320
and he has an apartment upstairs
where him and Ilya go to hook 

585
00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:16,120
up. 
And then downstairs is like a 

586
00:34:16,199 --> 00:34:18,199
more commercial space that he 
rents out. 

587
00:34:18,199 --> 00:34:24,880
And so that change, Jacob said, 
was largely due to time and 

588
00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:28,960
adding another set piece that 
they didn't really need 

589
00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:33,840
necessarily to convey the fact 
that Ilya wants to be in a more 

590
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:37,320
personal space of Shane's. 
And they get that when they go 

591
00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:40,719
to the cottage. 
So for him, he was OK with 

592
00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:45,159
scrapping that and then making 
this apartment still convey that

593
00:34:45,159 --> 00:34:49,440
impersonal feeling by saying 
things like a designer picked 

594
00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:52,280
out all the pillows in his room 
and and not having it be 

595
00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:56,239
reflective of his happy place. 
And then also insinuating that 

596
00:34:56,239 --> 00:34:59,920
the place next door to where 
they are is empty, which is the 

597
00:34:59,920 --> 00:35:02,960
premise of why he buys a whole 
building so that nobody can hear

598
00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:05,600
them. 
So it kind of takes the concepts

599
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:08,760
of the hookup building and 
reinforces them, but keeps the 

600
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:12,440
set as one place instead of 
having them go to two, which is 

601
00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:14,600
very. 
Smart for a man with six 

602
00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:20,440
episodes in a limited budget. 
However, I think the idea that 

603
00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:26,280
Shane buys an entire building 
instead of just letting Ilya 

604
00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:29,000
come to his house is speaks 
volumes. 

605
00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:33,120
And in this one, he, he is in 
his space immediately. 

606
00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:37,520
And so I think yeah, but he's. 
Not because they put off hooking

607
00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:40,360
up for two years again, yes, 
that is. 

608
00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:42,280
True. 
And that is also very smart of 

609
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:44,200
isn't that nice how that ties 
together. 

610
00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:49,480
Yes, those decisions work, yes, 
But if we had more budget and 

611
00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:52,280
time, Yep, then I think he would
have those. 

612
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:53,320
Decisions would have happened 
and I. 

613
00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:55,640
Think he would have happily. 
Included the way it was 

614
00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:57,920
originally written, yes, and has
said so. 

615
00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:00,440
Sacrifices had to be made 
correct. 

616
00:36:01,240 --> 00:36:04,720
And. 
So I agree that that is pretty 

617
00:36:04,720 --> 00:36:08,520
significant, and I also agree 
with their decision to cut it 

618
00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:11,680
because I certainly wouldn't 
want to sacrifice anything else.

619
00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:16,600
Yes, but for a spoiler alert for
the long game. 

620
00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:21,120
The fact that Shane is willing 
to buy a building speaks to 

621
00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:25,200
foreshadowing in the long game 
that he's so committed to 

622
00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:29,160
remaining closeted and sticking 
with the plan and how seriously 

623
00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:31,120
he takes it. 
He does say. 

624
00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:36,160
Though at the end of the book, 
he did rivalry that he wants to 

625
00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:41,400
allow Ilya into all areas of his
life now that they've decided 

626
00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:43,240
like that this is what they're 
going to do. 

627
00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:47,520
And he does make a point to say,
I want you to be at my place in 

628
00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:52,480
Montreal and have a toothbrush 
there like he does in the book. 

629
00:36:52,720 --> 00:36:56,600
So since we don't have that in 
the show, it'll be interesting 

630
00:36:56,600 --> 00:37:02,200
how they use or don't use that 
concept of wanting to keep Ilya 

631
00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:05,720
like so separate from his 
personal life, because they 

632
00:37:05,720 --> 00:37:07,080
really haven't addressed it at 
all. 

633
00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:09,920
Well, maybe. 
Ilya calls some of the pillows 

634
00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:13,800
like stamp on the impersonal 
apartment. 

635
00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:18,640
Yes, that feeds into. 
This question nicely though. 

636
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:22,320
Yeah, take it away. 
So this question is, I'm curious

637
00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:24,120
where you think they will start 
season 2. 

638
00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:27,080
Do you think they will pick up 
right where the book starts so 

639
00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:28,160
low? 
And I actually had this 

640
00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:32,640
discussion last night unprompted
by the podcast questions. 

641
00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:39,200
And I am really not concerned. 
But there's so much at the end 

642
00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:42,560
of Heated Rivalry, the book that
they have not included in the 

643
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:45,800
ending of Season 1, that I 
really don't think you can start

644
00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:48,480
any of the long game plot 
without. 

645
00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:53,360
But a lot of it is internal 
dialogue of Ilyas. 

646
00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:59,000
So that is the only reason why I
think that they might tweak it 

647
00:37:59,080 --> 00:38:02,200
quite heavily, because how are 
you going to play out those 

648
00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:06,240
scenes and convey Ilyas feelings
in a way that's readable? 

649
00:38:06,240 --> 00:38:10,160
And Connor's a great actor, but 
a lot of it is so internal and 

650
00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:14,480
very, very important lines that 
he thinks to himself that I 

651
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:17,880
think Jacob's going to want to 
retool it so that it becomes 

652
00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:22,440
more obvious. 
And to me, a lot of how Elia's 

653
00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:25,160
inner thoughts in the second 
book are going to be played out 

654
00:38:25,160 --> 00:38:28,280
on screen is through his 
conversations with his 

655
00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:31,680
therapist, because she's really 
the only other person that he 

656
00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:34,880
reveals anything to because he 
keeps so much from Shane. 

657
00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:37,520
And he's doing that at the end 
of the heated rivalry as well. 

658
00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:42,280
So that's an aside. 
But in the book, it ends with 

659
00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:44,560
Shane and Ilya going back to the
cottage. 

660
00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:47,000
Shane is freaking out at the 
house. 

661
00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:51,120
Ilya has to calm him down. 
So even after the dinner with 

662
00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:54,120
his parents, he is still 
freaking out about the the 

663
00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:57,400
weight of everything that's 
transpired at that dinner table.

664
00:38:57,720 --> 00:39:02,080
And I think that riding off into
the sunset is, yes, a beautiful 

665
00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:05,200
way to end Season 1. 
But I think Hudson had said in 

666
00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:08,480
an interview that it's not a 
decadent. 

667
00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:11,120
Yeah, it's not a happy ending. 
It's not indicative of the 

668
00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:14,400
reality of what they're about to
face in this bubble that they're

669
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:16,160
in. 
They're happy, but it's not 

670
00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:18,880
real. 
So I think that it's a moment of

671
00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:20,680
reprieve. 
Yeah, I think. 

672
00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:24,600
That you have to send them back 
into that real conversation 

673
00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:29,080
where they have to confront the 
fact that Shane's not OK Ilya 

674
00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:30,720
has just had the best day of his
life. 

675
00:39:30,720 --> 00:39:33,000
And I think that's important to 
show, too. 

676
00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:36,600
Like, I think we got the gist of
that in how he looks when 

677
00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:39,440
they're walking back to the car.
But he truly in his head is 

678
00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:41,920
like, this is the best day of my
entire life. 

679
00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:44,840
And so I think it would be kind 
of a disservice to that whole 

680
00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:49,240
ending if we don't get a follow 
up of like hammering home just 

681
00:39:49,240 --> 00:39:53,080
how much it meant to Ilya before
you skip ahead 2 years to the 

682
00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:55,120
beginning of the long game. 
Thoughts. 

683
00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:59,280
I agree. 
And I think the conversations 

684
00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:03,120
for Ilia can also happen with 
Svetlana now because she's a 

685
00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:06,240
much more significant character.
But I also think there's just 

686
00:40:06,240 --> 00:40:09,760
too much build up to skip two 
years. 

687
00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:14,440
Yeah, no chance. 
And in the deleted Hayden dinner

688
00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:16,880
scene, when does that happen? 
It happens. 

689
00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:19,480
Let me look it up for those of 
you who hadn't read the. 

690
00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:23,800
Book there's a prologue to the 
epilogue that is a deleted scene

691
00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:27,000
where after Hayden November so 
it is. 

692
00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:29,720
Later. 
November 2000. 18 It says it 

693
00:40:29,720 --> 00:40:32,760
takes place three weeks before 
the epilogue in the hated 

694
00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:38,360
rivalry, and the epilogue takes 
place 16 months after they're at

695
00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:40,880
the cottage, so a year and a 
half after. 

696
00:40:41,240 --> 00:40:42,520
OK. 
Yeah. 

697
00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:44,680
So that's. 
Quite a jump, yeah, so even 

698
00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:46,320
that's too. 
Much of a jump, but for those of

699
00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:51,000
you who haven't read the book 
and the epilogue, Hayden guesses

700
00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:56,760
that the like secret person is 
Ilya jokingly, but he ends up 

701
00:40:56,760 --> 00:41:00,640
being right, stumbles into that.
And then they have a dinner with

702
00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:03,480
them. 
And so we thought about maybe 

703
00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:05,520
that they open with that, but 
that's too much time. 

704
00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:08,680
So I do I think that they I 
think that they end up back at 

705
00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:11,840
the cottage and like it's not 
warm anymore. 

706
00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:15,640
Like the fire's gone out and 
like he's looking at the cold 

707
00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:19,960
moon on the lake instead of the 
sun and he's like flipping out. 

708
00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:23,720
So you think that they drive? 
Home and they don't pick up 

709
00:41:23,720 --> 00:41:27,040
exactly like how the book does, 
where they get back to the house

710
00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:30,880
and Shanes freaking out and has 
to go outside to get air and 

711
00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:34,000
Ilia gives him a glass of vodka 
and they just like, hash it out.

712
00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:35,400
Yeah, I know. 
I think that that. 

713
00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:38,480
I think that they'll have to do 
a little bit of bridging from 

714
00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:42,240
the euphoria of the car too. 
But yeah, I think that they 

715
00:41:42,240 --> 00:41:44,960
could just open back up on that.
And then how do you think the? 

716
00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:50,160
Resolution of that ends because 
in the book they they talk about

717
00:41:50,160 --> 00:41:53,440
like getting engaged. 
And I think it would be kind of 

718
00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:57,960
impactful if they had Shane 
freaking out, Ilya once again 

719
00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:01,800
talking him down, preventing him
from having a panic attack or 

720
00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:04,520
talking him through a panic 
attack if he has one because 

721
00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:06,560
he's very stressed out in the 
book version. 

722
00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:09,880
And then they start talking 
about the future. 

723
00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:14,160
And Ilya at that point in the 
book is so elated that he just 

724
00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:18,320
had this day with him that he is
like dreamily talking about the 

725
00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:22,240
future. 
And it calms Shane into talking 

726
00:42:22,240 --> 00:42:25,840
about it alongside him. 
Like, it alleviates a lot of his

727
00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:29,800
anxieties because Ilya now is so
forthright with how ready and 

728
00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:33,040
prepared he is to face the 
adversity that Shane's freaking 

729
00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:34,960
out about. 
And they have this like nice 

730
00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:38,320
resolution by the end of it 
where they talk about getting 

731
00:42:38,320 --> 00:42:41,680
engaged on the dock. 
And that's like a great mirror 

732
00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:44,920
moment that they can pay off 
later on in Season 2. 

733
00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:48,000
So again, I'm thinking about it 
in terms of like constructing an

734
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:51,680
overarching narrative where in 
Season 1, we have so many 

735
00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:56,000
moments where they do a visual 
callback or a narrative one by 

736
00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:59,120
the end of the finale. 
And so if you remove that 

737
00:42:59,120 --> 00:43:03,800
conversation about proposing, 
then the proposal doesn't have 

738
00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:07,160
as big of a an impact. 
So I think that has to be in 

739
00:43:07,160 --> 00:43:08,960
there. 
And then maybe we just like fade

740
00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:11,680
to black and then they jump. 
Yeah, for sure. 

741
00:43:12,240 --> 00:43:15,760
I do think one problem there is 
that there is no dock because of

742
00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:16,400
budget. 
Yeah. 

743
00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:19,960
So either they're getting 
married on getting engaged on 

744
00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:21,840
that rock or in the yard. 
Yeah. 

745
00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:24,640
They also have a very important 
conversation about who they're 

746
00:43:24,640 --> 00:43:28,640
going to tell, which I think is 
really prevalent for what is 

747
00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:30,160
going to happen in the long 
game. 

748
00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:32,520
Yeah, well, I mean. 
There are worse things than 

749
00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:35,240
going back to the cottage. 
Seriously. 

750
00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:39,480
But I do wonder because in the 
book they, they do just kind of 

751
00:43:39,480 --> 00:43:45,000
jump 16 months later and in the 
epilogue, Hayden already knows, 

752
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:50,080
even though the dinner scene 
isn't in the original source 

753
00:43:50,080 --> 00:43:54,320
material, I think they kind of 
have to include that because him

754
00:43:54,320 --> 00:43:57,280
coming out to anyone other than 
Ilya is so important. 

755
00:43:57,560 --> 00:44:00,360
And he's already done it with 
Rose and now his parents. 

756
00:44:00,360 --> 00:44:04,640
But this is someone in hockey. 
I feel like you can't not show 

757
00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:07,480
that conversation on screen 
100%. 

758
00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:10,520
And then therefore you have to 
have this dinner because you and

759
00:44:10,520 --> 00:44:13,720
I, we were talking about what 
happens in the dinner scene. 

760
00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:17,480
And to me, it's it should have 
been in the book because it's so

761
00:44:17,480 --> 00:44:19,680
important what happens in that 
scene. 

762
00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:23,080
I don't think Jacob could get 
away with not including it or 

763
00:44:23,080 --> 00:44:24,280
would want to. 
Yeah. 

764
00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:25,960
It's it's a. 
Great excerpt. 

765
00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:28,840
Yeah, that she added. 
Phenomenal and also. 

766
00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:33,520
Gives time to that relationship 
between Shane and Hayden that we

767
00:44:33,560 --> 00:44:35,200
haven't gotten really to see 
yet. 

768
00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:39,280
And I think within that scene we
realize as readers like how 

769
00:44:39,280 --> 00:44:43,840
similar the dynamic for Hayden 
and Shane is to Ilian and Shane 

770
00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:48,480
in the sense that Aiden comes 
off as never serious and not 

771
00:44:48,480 --> 00:44:52,080
particularly plugged in. 
But when he is confronting Ilya,

772
00:44:52,080 --> 00:44:56,360
he it becomes clear how closely 
he does pay attention to Shane 

773
00:44:56,360 --> 00:44:59,000
and his needs and cares about 
him well. 

774
00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:01,400
And one of the things that Shane
needs is someone who isn't 

775
00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:02,720
serious to get him out of his 
head. 

776
00:45:03,960 --> 00:45:07,240
So I think that showing that 
relationship that Shane spends 

777
00:45:07,240 --> 00:45:11,000
so much time on is so crucial. 
Yeah, and we know. 

778
00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:14,600
Jacob plans to talk about when 
Shane comes out to his team. 

779
00:45:14,640 --> 00:45:18,520
So I think if you don't beef up 
the relationship dynamic between

780
00:45:18,520 --> 00:45:22,000
him and Hayden ahead of that 
moment when Hayden is the only 

781
00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:25,600
person in that room to come to 
his defense, again, it just adds

782
00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:31,040
more context and weight to him 
coming to Shade's aid in that 

783
00:45:31,040 --> 00:45:33,360
scene. 
That maybe wouldn't feel as 

784
00:45:33,360 --> 00:45:36,800
significant if we don't have 
more time also with Hayden, 

785
00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:40,440
like, first hand witnessing how 
Shane is in a partnership 

786
00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:44,320
because he's never been with 
anybody really, except for Rose.

787
00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:47,440
But I don't see Hayden with him.
And, you know, like, we don't 

788
00:45:47,520 --> 00:45:50,080
see him around that 
relationship. 

789
00:45:50,080 --> 00:45:54,640
So it'll be interesting to watch
Hayden observe Shane's behavior.

790
00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:57,840
And in the long game, they spend
a lot of time together, like the

791
00:45:57,840 --> 00:46:00,560
three of them. 
So yeah, I think you kind of 

792
00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:03,760
really have to dedicate a good 
chunk of a scene to that dinner 

793
00:46:03,760 --> 00:46:05,640
scene for sure. 
And. 

794
00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:09,800
This is not a question, This is 
my own question and you kind of 

795
00:46:09,800 --> 00:46:11,080
already dashed my hopes last 
night. 

796
00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:14,880
But for the for the people in 
the back, do we think that Jacob

797
00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:19,640
was going to leave it where 
every metro sucks when Shane 

798
00:46:19,640 --> 00:46:21,400
comes out? 
That's a good. 

799
00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:23,480
Question because there's a 
little bit of. 

800
00:46:23,480 --> 00:46:28,440
A like shit's Creek mentality of
like, show the behavior that you

801
00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:33,080
want to see in the world and 
obviously like that would change

802
00:46:33,080 --> 00:46:36,000
a lot of plot. 
So it's not going to be 100%, 

803
00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:39,480
but just look at those smiling 
faces at the playoff viewing 

804
00:46:39,480 --> 00:46:41,360
party. 
I don't like they're all going 

805
00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:43,200
to suck. 
Yeah, no, I. 

806
00:46:43,200 --> 00:46:47,000
Think, I think it's less of 
they're all going to suck, it's 

807
00:46:47,320 --> 00:46:50,800
more of a lot of them are going 
to just be quiet. 

808
00:46:50,880 --> 00:46:53,320
Yeah, bystander. 
Yeah, I think it's. 

809
00:46:53,320 --> 00:46:56,800
More of that because the point 
that you're making about the 

810
00:46:56,800 --> 00:46:59,520
Schitt's Creek angle, that's 
Ilya's team. 

811
00:47:00,280 --> 00:47:03,080
They're doing that. 
And you kind of have to have 

812
00:47:03,080 --> 00:47:07,040
Shane's team represent the old 
guard that they've been building

813
00:47:07,040 --> 00:47:09,600
up in the background because 
again, in Season 1, they do not 

814
00:47:09,600 --> 00:47:11,400
go into the hockey culture very 
deep. 

815
00:47:11,400 --> 00:47:14,960
This team is going to be the the
way that they do it in Season 2.

816
00:47:15,480 --> 00:47:19,320
And if you soften that, then 
everything that Shane and Ilya 

817
00:47:19,320 --> 00:47:23,000
have been resisting for 10 years
doesn't hold any weight. 

818
00:47:23,480 --> 00:47:27,480
So you kind of have to keep it 
so that their reaction is true 

819
00:47:27,720 --> 00:47:30,480
to real, real hockey culture. 
Yeah. 

820
00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:33,520
And I. 
Understand that I think that JJ.

821
00:47:33,520 --> 00:47:37,160
Also has to be having the 
reaction he does in the book 

822
00:47:37,160 --> 00:47:41,000
where it's just so poor because 
they've really teed that up 

823
00:47:41,000 --> 00:47:44,200
already in season 1 where he 
says yeah. 

824
00:47:44,360 --> 00:47:47,000
Lowe was watching. 
It yesterday and didn't realize 

825
00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:49,920
that JJ had already started 
saying release. 

826
00:47:50,200 --> 00:47:54,160
Yeah, obvious slurs. 
So that lines up with how he's 

827
00:47:54,160 --> 00:47:59,560
going to react in season 2. 
And a lot of it mirrors back to 

828
00:47:59,560 --> 00:48:03,160
what we were saying about Ilia, 
which is that when he's afraid 

829
00:48:03,160 --> 00:48:09,600
or hurt, he's terrible. 
JJ reacts terribly because he's 

830
00:48:09,600 --> 00:48:12,480
so hurt that Shane didn't share 
this with him. 

831
00:48:12,560 --> 00:48:18,200
And that is how he frames all of
his like how he handles the 

832
00:48:18,200 --> 00:48:21,280
situation. 
He's really mean to Shane about 

833
00:48:21,280 --> 00:48:23,560
it. 
And then when they finally 

834
00:48:23,760 --> 00:48:27,560
converse, he says it's because 
he's so hurt that he let Shane 

835
00:48:27,600 --> 00:48:31,720
or he was trying to set Shane up
with people and Shane let him do

836
00:48:31,720 --> 00:48:34,000
that. 
And it made him feel like he was

837
00:48:34,040 --> 00:48:37,480
aware of like the inner world 
that Shane was sharing with him.

838
00:48:37,480 --> 00:48:39,960
And then to find out that the 
entire time he's known him, he's

839
00:48:39,960 --> 00:48:42,280
been lying. 
So it makes him question, what 

840
00:48:42,280 --> 00:48:45,520
else have you lied to me about? 
Like the anger that he feels and

841
00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:48,560
the betrayal is why he reacts 
the way he does. 

842
00:48:48,880 --> 00:48:52,120
And then Shane does a good job 
of calling out that like, that's

843
00:48:52,120 --> 00:48:54,440
a terrible way to, well, God 
forbid you. 

844
00:48:54,440 --> 00:48:57,000
Think about what in his action? 
Well, that's just yeah. 

845
00:48:57,120 --> 00:48:59,400
That's just, yeah. 
And I think that that's a really

846
00:48:59,400 --> 00:49:03,360
important conversation. 
And I think the inkling of most 

847
00:49:03,360 --> 00:49:05,960
people is like, well, don't make
him that horrible. 

848
00:49:05,960 --> 00:49:10,120
But you can't make Shane's point
obvious without him being the 

849
00:49:10,120 --> 00:49:15,280
stereotypical make it about you 
and completely denounce Shane's 

850
00:49:15,280 --> 00:49:18,080
feelings being a factor as to 
why he lied to you. 

851
00:49:18,080 --> 00:49:21,200
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 
Yeah, OK, I'll just have to 

852
00:49:21,360 --> 00:49:25,240
steal my heart. 
But it will be interesting 

853
00:49:25,360 --> 00:49:28,640
because they do gloss over the 
metros in the book. 

854
00:49:28,720 --> 00:49:30,400
Yeah, very much so. 
I'm really. 

855
00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:32,680
Excited. 
I'm glad he's leaning into. 

856
00:49:32,680 --> 00:49:35,600
It yeah, because. 
You know, it's kind of the whole

857
00:49:35,600 --> 00:49:37,200
point. 
We also need to. 

858
00:49:37,200 --> 00:49:40,680
Include the press conference 
that they have where they 

859
00:49:40,680 --> 00:49:43,640
announce the foundation and it's
the first time that they're like

860
00:49:43,640 --> 00:49:46,280
publicly friendly with one 
another. 

861
00:49:46,520 --> 00:49:49,120
And Hayden's in that scene, he's
important because he's like 

862
00:49:49,120 --> 00:49:51,840
guarding the bathroom door when 
the two of them are getting 

863
00:49:51,840 --> 00:49:54,920
ready for it. 
They also announced that Yuna is

864
00:49:54,960 --> 00:49:58,480
in charge of that foundation. 
So I think that there's going to

865
00:49:58,480 --> 00:50:01,960
probably be a lot of really fun 
opportunities for Jacob to add 

866
00:50:01,960 --> 00:50:06,040
scenes that we don't get in the 
book where Yuna and Ilya and 

867
00:50:06,040 --> 00:50:10,040
Shane are planning this launch. 
You know, I feel like there's 

868
00:50:10,040 --> 00:50:13,920
just got to be more context 
added to the show and scenes 

869
00:50:13,920 --> 00:50:17,600
added into the show to help 
soften the 16 month jump that 

870
00:50:17,600 --> 00:50:20,000
we're going to have. 
Like, if we don't have a solid 

871
00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:22,560
footing of where they are before
the jump, it will feel very 

872
00:50:22,560 --> 00:50:24,400
jarring to me. 
Yeah, Yeah. 

873
00:50:24,680 --> 00:50:27,120
Yeah, I'm trying to think if 
there's any other like loose 

874
00:50:27,160 --> 00:50:30,040
ends in Season 1 that, well, 
it's the last. 

875
00:50:30,520 --> 00:50:34,640
Well, this isn't a season one 
thing, but in the time between 

876
00:50:34,800 --> 00:50:37,640
the end of the book and the 
time, the epilogue, the jump, 

877
00:50:38,040 --> 00:50:41,160
it's Ilias last season with 
Boston and they know that. 

878
00:50:41,160 --> 00:50:45,360
So we don't have any clue as to 
how he announced he's leaving, 

879
00:50:45,600 --> 00:50:50,680
what the backlash was with 
Boston fans, how he told that, 

880
00:50:50,760 --> 00:50:52,960
Like, we don't get any insight 
into that. 

881
00:50:53,360 --> 00:50:58,040
Yeah, that is a huge thing that 
I really hope that they touch on

882
00:50:58,360 --> 00:51:00,880
because that would not be 
received well. 

883
00:51:00,880 --> 00:51:04,000
And it would be fascinating how 
that all unfolds. 

884
00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:07,440
And we never really hear about 
it except for one time in the 

885
00:51:07,440 --> 00:51:10,800
long game when they're playing 
against Boston and he's getting 

886
00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:14,120
booed and he tells one of his 
teammates they wish I still 

887
00:51:14,120 --> 00:51:15,760
played for them, and that's 
about it. 

888
00:51:16,600 --> 00:51:20,040
So I feel like that would be 
kind of a missed opportunity for

889
00:51:20,040 --> 00:51:22,440
the the rocky culture piece that
they're trying to plug in. 

890
00:51:22,480 --> 00:51:23,600
Yeah. 
And if. 

891
00:51:23,600 --> 00:51:28,040
Anyone needs a real life example
of Boston losing their Captain 

892
00:51:28,680 --> 00:51:31,640
God CC Brad Marchand. 
That one hurt. 

893
00:51:32,640 --> 00:51:34,400
But that one he didn't choose to
leave. 

894
00:51:34,840 --> 00:51:36,640
I'm so saying. 
I'm not, I'm not saying we hold 

895
00:51:36,640 --> 00:51:38,240
him responsible. 
No, I'm but I'm. 

896
00:51:38,240 --> 00:51:42,400
Saying like, think about that. 
The reaction that Boston had to 

897
00:51:42,400 --> 00:51:46,720
someone leaving who didn't want 
to, and that it being so for 

898
00:51:46,720 --> 00:51:49,800
months, everyone was like 
deeply, deeply affected by it. 

899
00:51:49,800 --> 00:51:52,000
Now imagine that he chose to 
leave. 

900
00:51:52,160 --> 00:51:54,840
Yeah, No. 
We'd burn the ships, yeah. 

901
00:51:56,360 --> 00:51:59,000
It would be catastrophic, the 
draft pick. 

902
00:52:00,600 --> 00:52:03,120
There's so much there to unpack,
and it is. 

903
00:52:03,720 --> 00:52:06,520
Foreshadowed by Una Total, 
total, total. 

904
00:52:06,720 --> 00:52:09,080
They drafted him. 
Yep, yeah. 

905
00:52:09,120 --> 00:52:10,600
Loyalty. 
All of it. 

906
00:52:11,000 --> 00:52:13,760
All very relevant for what 
they're gonna deal with in 

907
00:52:13,760 --> 00:52:15,680
Season 2. 
I think that we. 

908
00:52:15,680 --> 00:52:18,520
Could have a whole season 2 
episode. 

909
00:52:18,560 --> 00:52:20,920
So I think we should control 
ourselves, okay. 

910
00:52:21,080 --> 00:52:24,160
We'll plan on doing that, guys. 
We'll do a Season 2 episode. 

911
00:52:24,280 --> 00:52:27,720
Our thoughts and predictions and
what we want them to include. 

912
00:52:27,720 --> 00:52:30,280
That maybe isn't obvious because
I haven't even uttered. 

913
00:52:30,280 --> 00:52:35,200
Svetlana name which? 
I've done a video on TikTok 

914
00:52:35,200 --> 00:52:39,960
about her, but I will say that 
video was born of a conversation

915
00:52:39,960 --> 00:52:41,840
with Lo. 
Yeah, so that. 

916
00:52:41,920 --> 00:52:45,840
Was CC me Yeah, so. 
I want her to have a platform to

917
00:52:45,840 --> 00:52:49,040
share her thoughts and opinions 
on that because, yeah, you have 

918
00:52:49,200 --> 00:52:54,000
so many great take and so many 
unbelievable observations about 

919
00:52:54,520 --> 00:52:59,240
her because you are someone who 
I think is looking at the hockey

920
00:52:59,240 --> 00:53:02,040
culture of it all from a very 
different lens than me. 

921
00:53:02,040 --> 00:53:06,000
You pick up on things that I 
don't because I'm too inside of 

922
00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:08,440
it. 
And she's kind of in the same 

923
00:53:08,440 --> 00:53:12,520
boat where she's on the outside 
of it but very familiar with how

924
00:53:12,520 --> 00:53:15,240
it works as the daughter of a 
player. 

925
00:53:15,400 --> 00:53:19,800
Absolutely. 
Yeah, we love you. 

926
00:53:20,040 --> 00:53:21,000
We. 
Love you. 

927
00:53:21,760 --> 00:53:23,600
So cool. 
OK. 

928
00:53:24,200 --> 00:53:27,400
We'll do the last question. 
This question is in episode 2 

929
00:53:27,400 --> 00:53:29,920
during the montage that shows 
the passage of time. 

930
00:53:30,160 --> 00:53:33,160
What do you think Shane was 
texting when he started to type?

931
00:53:33,200 --> 00:53:36,240
I think you should dot dot dot 
and then deletes it to Ilya. 

932
00:53:36,320 --> 00:53:40,720
So for context, this is when in 
the montage, Shane is sitting on

933
00:53:40,720 --> 00:53:42,560
the couch. 
It looks like he's at his 

934
00:53:42,560 --> 00:53:45,160
parents cottage and playoffs are
happening. 

935
00:53:45,200 --> 00:53:47,760
The playoffs are happening. 
He's watching playoffs on TV. 

936
00:53:47,800 --> 00:53:50,440
Ilya texts playoffs are fun. 
How come you aren't here? 

937
00:53:50,800 --> 00:53:54,080
So classic jab. 
And then Shane replies fuck you 

938
00:53:54,520 --> 00:53:58,360
quote Lily and Ilya replies with
a kissy face. 

939
00:53:58,360 --> 00:54:01,800
And then Shane says and see you 
next year asshole. 

940
00:54:01,800 --> 00:54:04,880
And Ilya says promise I still 
want that asshole. 

941
00:54:04,880 --> 00:54:08,680
And yes is proper grammar. 
And that's when Shane visibly 

942
00:54:08,680 --> 00:54:13,440
panics, types out I think that 
you should, and then deletes it 

943
00:54:13,440 --> 00:54:15,880
and puts his phone away. 
Yes, and it is a lot. 

944
00:54:15,880 --> 00:54:18,760
Of Hudson's incredible face, 
actually. 

945
00:54:19,400 --> 00:54:24,600
And like his face drops and he 
like it's panic. 

946
00:54:24,680 --> 00:54:28,960
And then he'd he'd like, tosses 
his phone, like he looks away, 

947
00:54:28,960 --> 00:54:30,880
like he can't even stay in the 
moment. 

948
00:54:30,880 --> 00:54:34,800
So I didn't catch any of that 
until we watched it looking for 

949
00:54:34,800 --> 00:54:37,120
that his face. 
Yeah, I don't know. 

950
00:54:37,160 --> 00:54:38,480
I just like he. 
Never looked at his face well 

951
00:54:38,480 --> 00:54:40,920
and also to to. 
Circle back to the first 

952
00:54:40,920 --> 00:54:43,400
question. 
This is happening when he's 

953
00:54:43,400 --> 00:54:47,360
actively trying to not engage 
with, you know, like this is 

954
00:54:47,360 --> 00:54:50,480
when they're still removing. 
Yeah, they're, this is another 

955
00:54:50,480 --> 00:54:54,200
example of when he's like 
resisting Ilya's advances. 

956
00:54:54,200 --> 00:54:57,080
So I think that's important to 
remember too. 

957
00:54:57,200 --> 00:55:00,720
They're not hooking up. 
So Ilya being this forward in 

958
00:55:00,720 --> 00:55:04,640
this whole montage is he's he's 
having to practice immense 

959
00:55:04,640 --> 00:55:07,880
self-control to not give in to 
it. 

960
00:55:07,880 --> 00:55:11,280
And then we see in the scene 
after the montage ends, and I 

961
00:55:11,280 --> 00:55:15,240
just said this to you, Ilya 
texts him before the game, which

962
00:55:15,640 --> 00:55:18,480
feels like a break in the 
typical pattern they've 

963
00:55:18,480 --> 00:55:21,640
established. 
And for whatever reason, that's 

964
00:55:21,640 --> 00:55:24,280
the correspondence that Shane 
gives in with. 

965
00:55:24,880 --> 00:55:27,440
And they meet up after that game
because I think that he almost. 

966
00:55:27,440 --> 00:55:31,120
Like, stops taking it seriously,
just gets into the habit of 

967
00:55:31,160 --> 00:55:35,480
rebuffing him. 
And because, like, Ilya is like,

968
00:55:35,480 --> 00:55:38,200
that, he's not serious. 
Yeah, he's whatever and so on. 

969
00:55:38,720 --> 00:55:41,600
Yeah, it jars him out of that. 
Right. 

970
00:55:41,920 --> 00:55:45,120
And he wants it the whole time. 
Yes, he does. 

971
00:55:45,120 --> 00:55:46,600
He. 
Sure, he sure. 

972
00:55:46,600 --> 00:55:50,280
Wants it to answer the question 
though I think that you should 

973
00:55:50,560 --> 00:55:52,760
dot dot dot. 
I think it would have been 

974
00:55:52,760 --> 00:55:57,360
something very literal because 
Shane at this point is still so 

975
00:55:57,360 --> 00:56:00,760
literal with all his responses 
earlier on in these first two 

976
00:56:00,760 --> 00:56:04,000
episodes. 
He always calls him asshole or 

977
00:56:04,000 --> 00:56:09,800
fuck you or like he's very 
deflective and he doesn't give 

978
00:56:09,800 --> 00:56:16,120
an answer that's true at all and
he's trying to divert things 

979
00:56:16,480 --> 00:56:19,600
often. 
So this has stumped me because I

980
00:56:19,600 --> 00:56:23,280
really don't know what in that 
situation you could fill it in 

981
00:56:23,280 --> 00:56:28,320
with specifically given that 
this is like a 2 second snapshot

982
00:56:28,520 --> 00:56:31,160
of him sitting on a couch and I 
don't have any other context of 

983
00:56:31,160 --> 00:56:34,600
like what's going on between 
them at that point in time. 

984
00:56:35,040 --> 00:56:39,200
I I almost want to say he thinks
like I think that you should get

985
00:56:39,200 --> 00:56:41,720
that look like that This doesn't
make sense. 

986
00:56:41,760 --> 00:56:45,040
Like something like get that 
looked at like you want this so 

987
00:56:45,040 --> 00:56:47,360
bad, but I'm not giving it to 
you, so you should go deal with 

988
00:56:47,360 --> 00:56:49,960
it somewhere else kind of thing.
I was going to. 

989
00:56:49,960 --> 00:56:54,000
Say either he writes that 
because it's like a good intro 

990
00:56:54,000 --> 00:56:57,080
to a dismissive comment, and he 
realizes he doesn't actually 

991
00:56:57,080 --> 00:56:59,240
have one. 
Say, yeah, but then I've thought

992
00:56:59,240 --> 00:57:00,400
of a couple while we've been 
talking. 

993
00:57:00,400 --> 00:57:02,320
Okay, good. 
And so I think one of them would

994
00:57:02,320 --> 00:57:07,040
be like, I think that you should
get your head out of my ass or I

995
00:57:07,080 --> 00:57:08,800
think that that's where it's 
going. 

996
00:57:08,800 --> 00:57:11,440
Like, I don't think that I don't
think he's gonna be like, I 

997
00:57:11,440 --> 00:57:13,560
think that you should leave me 
the fuck alone. 

998
00:57:13,600 --> 00:57:15,080
Like, no. 
So I. 

999
00:57:15,080 --> 00:57:16,720
Think it's either. 
Something like that. 

1000
00:57:16,760 --> 00:57:20,360
Or end, in which case like 
because he can be funny. 

1001
00:57:20,520 --> 00:57:21,760
Yeah, he absolutely can be 
funny. 

1002
00:57:21,840 --> 00:57:23,560
And Ilya thinks he's. 
Hilarious. 

1003
00:57:24,440 --> 00:57:28,840
But I think his humor is when 
he's being wholesomely honest. 

1004
00:57:29,040 --> 00:57:30,680
Yeah, Ilya finds that most 
endearing. 

1005
00:57:30,680 --> 00:57:33,760
So I think that's why my knee 
jerk reaction is that he would 

1006
00:57:33,760 --> 00:57:36,600
say something honest. 
Yeah, I thought of the other. 

1007
00:57:36,600 --> 00:57:39,360
One I was going to say is he 
could say like, I think that you

1008
00:57:39,360 --> 00:57:42,880
should focus the playoffs. 
Yeah, more. 

1009
00:57:42,880 --> 00:57:45,800
More on the playoffs and less on
my asshole or something like 

1010
00:57:45,800 --> 00:57:49,040
that. 
I love that, but that doesn't 

1011
00:57:49,040 --> 00:57:51,280
really. 
Account for why he doesn't send 

1012
00:57:51,280 --> 00:57:55,320
it if those are like and that's 
why I think maybe he's panicking

1013
00:57:55,920 --> 00:57:58,560
to the point that he can't think
of those and that's why he 

1014
00:57:58,560 --> 00:58:02,040
doesn't send anything well and. 
That's a device that's used 

1015
00:58:02,040 --> 00:58:05,160
multiple times is that he will 
write something and delete it 

1016
00:58:05,160 --> 00:58:07,040
over and over. 
And he does it in the scene that

1017
00:58:07,040 --> 00:58:09,440
follows this when they're in the
locker room and Ilia says how 

1018
00:58:09,440 --> 00:58:10,840
many times can you come in one 
hour? 

1019
00:58:11,040 --> 00:58:13,960
He types something out and 
deletes it twice before he says,

1020
00:58:13,960 --> 00:58:16,960
I don't know, twice maybe, And 
that's him again. 

1021
00:58:16,960 --> 00:58:20,080
Like he was going to be literal,
he was going to be dismissive, 

1022
00:58:20,160 --> 00:58:24,200
he was going to redirect, and 
then he gives in and does what 

1023
00:58:24,200 --> 00:58:27,000
he doesn't do in this scene, 
which is send the message. 

1024
00:58:27,000 --> 00:58:29,920
That's honest. 
So I think like having him 

1025
00:58:29,920 --> 00:58:34,280
delete this is really important 
because then we see what happens

1026
00:58:34,280 --> 00:58:37,920
when he follows through. 
As soon as he follows through he

1027
00:58:37,920 --> 00:58:40,960
gives in all together and says 
I'll text you after the game and

1028
00:58:40,960 --> 00:58:43,520
then we see them together. 
So I think he knows himself well

1029
00:58:43,520 --> 00:58:46,520
enough to not send message 
because this is what would 

1030
00:58:46,520 --> 00:58:48,200
happen. 
Also maybe they think. 

1031
00:58:48,600 --> 00:58:53,680
He's having fun, like, just 
bantering with Ilya, and then 

1032
00:58:54,520 --> 00:58:57,400
Ilya brings it back to something
that makes Shane feel 

1033
00:58:58,240 --> 00:59:01,320
vulnerable. 
And that's like why it changes 

1034
00:59:01,320 --> 00:59:03,040
for him. 
Yeah. 

1035
00:59:03,600 --> 00:59:08,240
And wanting, being desired by 
Ilya is what makes him feel 

1036
00:59:08,240 --> 00:59:10,480
vulnerable. 
That's a big. 

1037
00:59:10,480 --> 00:59:13,640
Thing in the book, even though 
they sleep together or they they

1038
00:59:13,640 --> 00:59:19,120
have sex sooner the lead up to 
those two weeks in between he 

1039
00:59:19,120 --> 00:59:22,320
like quite literally can't 
believe that Ilya Rosenov would 

1040
00:59:22,320 --> 00:59:25,800
want to have sex with him and 
the thought of it is like 

1041
00:59:25,800 --> 00:59:29,080
crippling there you go so if. 
It's two years. 

1042
00:59:29,080 --> 00:59:30,680
Of him feeling that way. 
Yeah. 

1043
00:59:31,120 --> 00:59:32,640
Can you imagine? 
There you go. 

1044
00:59:32,640 --> 00:59:35,400
No wonder he's a ball of mush. 
Look at that. 

1045
00:59:35,400 --> 00:59:36,240
We've solved. 
It. 

1046
00:59:38,280 --> 00:59:40,480
If they had been hooking. 
Up more consistently, and it 

1047
00:59:40,480 --> 00:59:44,280
wasn't montage. 
In this rebuffing, we would have

1048
00:59:44,280 --> 00:59:47,160
seen more. 
Hudson had more opportunities to

1049
00:59:47,160 --> 00:59:49,600
convey that he can't believe 
that Shane can't believe that 

1050
00:59:49,600 --> 00:59:52,440
Ilya wants to have sex with him.
It wouldn't just be this one 

1051
00:59:52,800 --> 00:59:57,040
adept viewer asking a couple of 
other obsessive viewers to 

1052
00:59:57,040 --> 01:00:01,120
interpret A2 second. 
But I digress from my soapbox. 

1053
01:00:01,280 --> 01:00:04,080
I think it's amazing. 
That people are consuming the 

1054
01:00:04,080 --> 01:00:06,800
show in this way, that we're 
answering a question about a 

1055
01:00:07,440 --> 01:00:09,640
another text message that never 
gets sent. 

1056
01:00:09,680 --> 01:00:12,560
Yeah. 
And can put that much weight to 

1057
01:00:12,560 --> 01:00:13,120
it. 
Yeah. 

1058
01:00:13,120 --> 01:00:16,000
Given how well written 
everything is and well acted, 

1059
01:00:16,200 --> 01:00:17,760
yeah. 
Like it's only because he 

1060
01:00:17,760 --> 01:00:20,480
demonstrates the panic that, 
yeah, that we have any insight? 

1061
01:00:20,480 --> 01:00:21,800
Even go off of that. 
Yeah. 

1062
01:00:22,000 --> 01:00:26,160
And so the thesis is give them 
more money and more time and 

1063
01:00:26,160 --> 01:00:26,560
more. 
Epic. 

1064
01:00:26,720 --> 01:00:29,600
Episodes it doesn't. 
Sound like we're getting that, 

1065
01:00:29,680 --> 01:00:33,280
but I'm holding out hope. 
I also really want them to do 

1066
01:00:33,440 --> 01:00:36,960
some sort of an episode in 
between now and season 2, but 

1067
01:00:36,960 --> 01:00:38,880
I'm not holding out hope for 
that either. 

1068
01:00:39,280 --> 01:00:42,240
But we know that they filmed a 
lot that didn't get included. 

1069
01:00:42,280 --> 01:00:44,320
That's a whole episode, that's. 
AI have a list of. 

1070
01:00:44,320 --> 01:00:46,200
Demands OK. 
So we'll do. 

1071
01:00:46,200 --> 01:00:48,680
Another one for that, 
absolutely. 

1072
01:00:49,120 --> 01:00:53,320
But I will say I have less hope 
for an in between episode after 

1073
01:00:53,320 --> 01:00:56,120
discussing where they're going 
to pick back up. 

1074
01:00:56,120 --> 01:00:57,680
Like if they pick up back at the
cottage. 

1075
01:00:58,120 --> 01:01:00,480
Doesn't make any sense for them 
to do any between episode. 

1076
01:01:00,560 --> 01:01:03,480
Yeah, but, well, they could. 
They could do. 

1077
01:01:03,480 --> 01:01:06,520
It depends on if they want to 
film something with everybody or

1078
01:01:06,520 --> 01:01:10,400
just Shane and Ilia, because you
could fill in the gap of what 

1079
01:01:10,400 --> 01:01:12,720
they do for the rest of the two 
weeks they're there now that the

1080
01:01:12,720 --> 01:01:15,360
parents know and just have the 
four of them have a scene 

1081
01:01:15,360 --> 01:01:17,440
together. 
And that would have been, yeah, 

1082
01:01:17,640 --> 01:01:19,760
something I would watch. 
I would watch anything. 

1083
01:01:19,760 --> 01:01:20,760
Who am I kidding? 
But. 

1084
01:01:21,840 --> 01:01:24,640
Yeah, but that is very true. 
Kind of like when Euphoria, like

1085
01:01:24,640 --> 01:01:26,800
Hunter Schaefer wrote those 
episodes of Euphoria. 

1086
01:01:27,240 --> 01:01:29,280
Yep, another incredible piece of
television. 

1087
01:01:29,600 --> 01:01:32,320
Well, we're gonna end the Q. 
And A there cuz we're well over 

1088
01:01:32,320 --> 01:01:33,840
an hour. 
Thank you as always, if you've 

1089
01:01:33,840 --> 01:01:35,240
made it to the end for 
listening. 

1090
01:01:35,240 --> 01:01:39,760
We are gonna have a few other 
more specific episodes coming 

1091
01:01:39,760 --> 01:01:45,120
out deep diving into some other 
topics and ideas that kind of 

1092
01:01:45,120 --> 01:01:48,440
formulated while going through a
lot of these Q&A questions. 

1093
01:01:48,720 --> 01:01:52,040
So thank you again to everyone 
who submitted a question and 

1094
01:01:52,040 --> 01:01:56,960
sent me a message with your 
insights and opinions because so

1095
01:01:56,960 --> 01:02:01,440
much of what we've been able to 
discuss has been in at least on 

1096
01:02:01,440 --> 01:02:04,320
my end, like spawned from 
someone bringing something up in

1097
01:02:04,320 --> 01:02:07,560
my inbox, which is really fun. 
Absolutely. 

1098
01:02:07,680 --> 01:02:10,040
And that's. 
On discourse it is that is on. 

1099
01:02:10,040 --> 01:02:12,840
Discourse. 
So we will see you in the next 

1100
01:02:12,840 --> 01:02:15,040
one and thank you again for 
listening. 

1101
01:02:15,640 --> 01:02:16,000
Bye now.