1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,920 Hi and welcome to K Let's Talk, the podcast where we breakdown 2 00:00:03,920 --> 00:00:07,440 storytelling across books, television and film with a 3 00:00:07,440 --> 00:00:09,800 special love for book to screen adaptations. 4 00:00:09,920 --> 00:00:13,520 Here we talk about craft, character arcs, structure, 5 00:00:13,520 --> 00:00:17,040 dialogue, visual language, and the creative choices that shape 6 00:00:17,040 --> 00:00:19,480 how a story lands. If you like thoughtful, 7 00:00:19,480 --> 00:00:22,560 conversational, deep dives into the stories you can't stop 8 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:24,240 thinking about, you're in the right place. 9 00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:28,000 Let's talk. Hello everyone, and welcome back 10 00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:31,760 to the podcast. This week I'm so excited because 11 00:00:31,760 --> 00:00:35,760 we are doing another heated rivalry Q&A and I have some 12 00:00:35,760 --> 00:00:39,840 great questions this week to discuss with you all and talk 13 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:42,680 about in detail. So I'm just going to jump right 14 00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:44,520 into it. There are a handful here. 15 00:00:44,840 --> 00:00:48,640 I tried to lay the mountain away where we talk about them and it 16 00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:52,640 flows into one another. There are a few hockey specific 17 00:00:52,640 --> 00:00:54,600 ones. There are a few pertaining to 18 00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:58,520 Season 2 and then another one that kind of ties into a greater 19 00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:02,880 theme of Season 1. So lots to dive into, plenty to 20 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:07,120 sink our teeth into, and hopefully you'll have some 21 00:01:07,160 --> 00:01:09,800 commentary around it. And leave me a comment because 22 00:01:09,800 --> 00:01:13,320 I'd love to chat with everybody and get to hear their thoughts. 23 00:01:13,320 --> 00:01:16,920 So without further ado, let's dive into this week's Heated 24 00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:20,400 Rivalry Q&A. So this first question I was 25 00:01:20,400 --> 00:01:24,680 very excited to talk about. I actually got Adm and I had a 26 00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:27,320 discussion with this person person in the DMS and then I 27 00:01:27,320 --> 00:01:30,840 asked if I could talk about it on the podcast in greater detail 28 00:01:30,840 --> 00:01:34,800 and kind of flesh out my opinion so it says hi Kay, I've listened 29 00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:37,400 to all your podcasts and I've enjoyed them so much. 30 00:01:37,680 --> 00:01:39,960 Please keep them coming. I have a question. 31 00:01:39,960 --> 00:01:41,840 Or maybe it's more of an observation. 32 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:45,600 It seems odd to me that when Shane proposed his plan to Ilya 33 00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:49,840 about leaving Boston to play for Ottawa, at no time did they ever 34 00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:52,440 have a conversation about what that would mean for Ilya's 35 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:54,600 career. They never discussed or even 36 00:01:54,600 --> 00:01:57,440 simply acknowledged the fact that Ilya leaving Boston would 37 00:01:57,440 --> 00:02:00,920 completely implode his career. We do not find out until the 38 00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:05,120 long game just how bottom of the barrel at Ottawa is, but they 39 00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:07,840 would know that. It seems that Shane might have 40 00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:11,080 said, I realize what an astronomical sacrifice this 41 00:02:11,080 --> 00:02:14,160 would be for you and that you would be giving up so much, but 42 00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:18,440 at least we can be together. To me as a generational player 43 00:02:18,440 --> 00:02:21,320 at the top of their game, this is something that they should 44 00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:23,560 have acknowledged. It feels like a complete 45 00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:25,440 omission that they didn't. Thoughts. 46 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:28,800 So I have lots of thoughts actually on this and I'm excited 47 00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:31,560 to touch on it. So when I was breaking down my 48 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:35,320 answer to this, the biggest thing that I found to be the 49 00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:39,840 crux of this argument or the angle that this person is coming 50 00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:44,320 at is how hockey functions so differently in each of these 51 00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:47,800 characters lives. So Ilya in particular, his 52 00:02:47,800 --> 00:02:50,200 identity was never wrapped up fully in hockey. 53 00:02:50,480 --> 00:02:53,520 It was very much a way for him to escape his dad and Russia, 54 00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:57,480 but as a person he was never fully in love with hockey 55 00:02:57,920 --> 00:02:59,320 emotionally. Like Shane. 56 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:02,280 I would say structurally though, his life is very much built 57 00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:04,920 around hockey, but that's more because of the nature of the 58 00:03:04,920 --> 00:03:10,280 sport itself, less so by choice. And that's not to say he doesn't 59 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:14,760 care about hockey, because we do see how him not winning wears on 60 00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:18,400 him during the long game because he is a competitor and that 61 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:20,320 doesn't change when he goes to Ottawa. 62 00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:23,640 But the way hockey is positioned in his life is entirely 63 00:03:23,640 --> 00:03:26,920 different than how Shane views hockey in his own life because 64 00:03:26,920 --> 00:03:31,160 Shane's identity is hockey. And that distinction leads to 65 00:03:31,160 --> 00:03:33,960 this sort of how could they not understand each other moment 66 00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:36,280 that we get to see play out in the long game. 67 00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:40,400 For Shane, hockey is the framework through which he 68 00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:43,880 understands himself. He learned what it means and 69 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:47,680 feels like to be legitimized through hockey and as a sport. 70 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:51,040 It also has taught him what it means to be disciplined, how to 71 00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:54,800 belong, and it shaped his value system. 72 00:03:55,240 --> 00:03:58,400 And so his entire life is built around his hockey achievements, 73 00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:02,080 his hockey legacy, his consistency as a player and 74 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:06,040 obviously all of his accolades too, because those serve as 75 00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:10,680 external proof for him. Because as an Asian player in a 76 00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:14,280 sport that's predominantly white, he would have had to be 77 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:17,480 undeniable every step of his career. 78 00:04:17,839 --> 00:04:20,000 And that would have been something that becomes 79 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:22,360 psychologically necessary for him. 80 00:04:22,680 --> 00:04:26,200 Because for Shane, his statistics and the legacy and 81 00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:30,160 the accolades that he has that protects him in a way from 82 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:33,680 racism, or at the very least provides him the feeling of 83 00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:37,560 safety from it. And it also serves as evidence 84 00:04:37,560 --> 00:04:41,920 of his legitimacy and belonging in a space and a sport that 85 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:47,720 typically does not allow space for him there because it is such 86 00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:51,840 a predominantly white sport that is already heavy before you even 87 00:04:51,840 --> 00:04:55,560 introduce him being gay. So you can understand why he has 88 00:04:55,560 --> 00:05:00,760 such this interesting dichotomy between being a hockey player 89 00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:03,400 and wanting to fit in. But then at the core of 90 00:05:03,400 --> 00:05:05,280 everything, he knows he never will. 91 00:05:05,840 --> 00:05:11,280 And it helps us understand why his sort of immortality within 92 00:05:11,280 --> 00:05:16,160 hockey matters so deeply for him, because I think it's so 93 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:19,280 tied to his own self worth, because to him, his 94 00:05:19,280 --> 00:05:22,000 accomplishments and his statistics are the only thing 95 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:26,160 that he has to justify all of the sacrifices that he's made. 96 00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:31,280 To be a part of this sport that. Has long made him feel excluded. 97 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:34,080 Ilya didn't build himself in the same way. 98 00:05:34,080 --> 00:05:38,880 He doesn't need hockey to exist. To him, the sport provided him 99 00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:42,400 freedom and money and cars and the ability to move away from 100 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:45,200 Russia and his father and not have to depend on him for 101 00:05:45,200 --> 00:05:48,360 anything anymore. But it also gave him Shane, and 102 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:51,720 he recognizes that too. So for him, he gets more 103 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:55,440 fulfillment out of his connections with people and less 104 00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:59,320 so out of his accomplishments. And it's why we see him in the 105 00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:01,360 other book of the series interacting with these other 106 00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:03,520 characters. It's because Ilia likes people 107 00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:05,600 and the connections he can build with them. 108 00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:09,280 So in the long game, Ilia doesn't have hockey. 109 00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:13,000 And he is sad, yes, but that's also because he doesn't have 110 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:16,440 Shane or a community or any outside connections. 111 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:20,000 And so we're most of the time the argument is made that Ilia's 112 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:25,000 unhappiness is framed around him being demoted to Ottawa. 113 00:06:25,280 --> 00:06:28,360 I would say most of his sadness is actually over not having 114 00:06:28,360 --> 00:06:31,640 Shane, being isolated from people and obviously his 115 00:06:31,640 --> 00:06:35,160 undiagnosed depression. The hockey component is last on 116 00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:37,880 that list. And it's not until he and Troy 117 00:06:37,880 --> 00:06:41,000 and Harris start to build a friendship that we see things 118 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:43,720 start to shift for him. And then it shifts again when he 119 00:06:43,720 --> 00:06:46,880 goes to therapy, and it shifts again when we see him starting 120 00:06:46,880 --> 00:06:49,280 to connect with his team mates again in the locker room and be 121 00:06:49,280 --> 00:06:53,080 a better captain. And so Ilya is often viewed as 122 00:06:53,080 --> 00:06:55,720 someone who goes around identifying all these queer 123 00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:58,400 characters and making connections with them because 124 00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:00,920 they're queer. But Jacobs pointed out in an 125 00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:05,440 interview that I think really encapsulates nicely Ilia is just 126 00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:08,720 an empathetic person and he connects to people on an 127 00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:11,840 emotional level and figures out what's troubling them as a 128 00:07:11,840 --> 00:07:14,160 human. And when he connects with people 129 00:07:14,160 --> 00:07:18,840 emotionally like that, it's largely over shared experiences 130 00:07:18,840 --> 00:07:21,440 or traumas, like in the situation with Troy where they 131 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:24,200 are able to connect over their fathers. 132 00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:28,720 And that trust that he builds with Troy over that leads to 133 00:07:28,720 --> 00:07:30,600 Troy coming out to him on his own. 134 00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:34,920 The same happens with Ryan Price and Ilya's ability to notice 135 00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:38,680 that hockey doesn't make him happy anymore and creating that 136 00:07:38,680 --> 00:07:41,120 safe environment for those people to open up to him. 137 00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:45,800 The queer part is secondary to their human struggles and Ilya's 138 00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:49,440 desire to help them with those. And so his connections always 139 00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:53,400 supersede that person simply being a teammate or another 140 00:07:53,400 --> 00:07:56,000 player. He wants to connect with people 141 00:07:56,000 --> 00:08:01,280 on a deeper level, and we see that with Troy and it brings him 142 00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:05,920 more fulfillment in his life. That fills the gaps when Shane 143 00:08:05,920 --> 00:08:08,600 is not around him. And I think it's normal that 144 00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:11,640 people are shocked that Shane is the one to suggest Ilya throw 145 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:14,480 his career away in the 1st place and that. 146 00:08:14,480 --> 00:08:17,360 He would be. In denial over what he's asking 147 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:18,960 him to do. Because if the roles were 148 00:08:18,960 --> 00:08:22,800 reversed, asking Shane to go to a lesser team would be 149 00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:26,280 unfathomable to him. He would say no because he wants 150 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:29,040 to win cups and Shane thinks Ilya does too. 151 00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:31,920 Because at that point in the story, they've still not talked 152 00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:34,039 about how they truly feel about hockey. 153 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:38,039 It is a monumental thing to assume Ilya will agree to this 154 00:08:38,039 --> 00:08:40,240 plan. Obviously people are wondering 155 00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:43,120 how he could come to this conclusion and think it's fair 156 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:47,280 because if Ilya were to ask this of Shane, we all know he would 157 00:08:47,280 --> 00:08:50,400 Mull over it and question why he would even ask him to do that in 158 00:08:50,400 --> 00:08:52,880 the 1st place. And that does come up in the 159 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:56,040 long game when Ilya tells Shane that he had already chosen him 160 00:08:56,120 --> 00:08:58,320 and it had not even registered to Shane yet. 161 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:01,640 What a huge sacrifice Ilya had made for them when he left 162 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:05,080 Boston and goes to Ottawa. I think Shane views this as a 163 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:09,080 practical decision and Ilya recognizes that it's quite 164 00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:12,120 literally him rearranging his entire life for Shane. 165 00:09:12,680 --> 00:09:16,520 But if you dropped Shane in Ottawa, he would not have the 166 00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:19,160 same struggles as Ilya because he's from there. 167 00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:23,160 He has a structural support system that he doesn't even 168 00:09:23,160 --> 00:09:27,160 realize Ilya does not have. And Shane is not the social 169 00:09:27,160 --> 00:09:30,920 person that Ilya is in Montreal. He does not have what Ilya has 170 00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:33,520 in Boston. He would not languish in the 171 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:35,920 same way with that social isolation. 172 00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:39,280 So Shane cannot conceptualize how hard it actually. 173 00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:43,640 Would be for Ilya. And he's also unaware that Ilia 174 00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:46,440 is struggling with depression and isolation because Ilia 175 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:49,800 doesn't tell him anything. Counterintuitively, hockey is 176 00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:53,400 more important to Shane, but he does not thrive off of 177 00:09:54,040 --> 00:09:59,640 recognition in the same way that Ilya does he Ilya thrives off of 178 00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:02,240 personal connections more than career achievements. 179 00:10:02,560 --> 00:10:06,600 Meanwhile, Shane can continue on and function better because he's 180 00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:11,200 still in Montreal and he's sustained by his achievements in 181 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:14,960 hockey in a way that Ilya has never been sustained by hockey. 182 00:10:15,560 --> 00:10:19,000 Shane wins his third cup in the year between heated rivalry in 183 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:22,000 the long game and Montreal is still winning all through the 184 00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:24,640 long game. And so if his personal life with 185 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:27,880 Ilia feels like it's in shambles, he can still function 186 00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:29,880 because his professional life is going well. 187 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:34,680 And so when this all transpires, I think Shane has tunnel vision 188 00:10:34,680 --> 00:10:39,560 because on the couch he needs to find a solution to Ilio marrying 189 00:10:39,560 --> 00:10:42,480 Svetlana. And so his tunnel is from the 190 00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:44,480 couch to we'll figure something out. 191 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:47,800 And then he figures this out and then Ilia says yes. 192 00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:50,440 So there isn't a lot of thinking about the big picture 193 00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:53,560 implications in that moment. It's very much a matter of him 194 00:10:53,560 --> 00:10:56,080 finding some sort of solution to their problem right then and 195 00:10:56,080 --> 00:10:58,800 there. And he can't conceptualize that 196 00:10:58,800 --> 00:11:02,160 there is more to this than just checking off that box, because 197 00:11:02,440 --> 00:11:06,040 this, to him, is the the easiest and quickest way for the two of 198 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:09,000 them to see each other more, and that is his priority. 199 00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:12,520 And now that they have both had a taste of what it feels like to 200 00:11:12,520 --> 00:11:15,880 be together, Shane wants to find any solution he can to preserve. 201 00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:18,080 It. In a lot of ways, Ilya leads 202 00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:21,600 Shane to this plan because he tells him he wants to be on a 203 00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:23,680 Canadian team. So that already narrows things 204 00:11:23,680 --> 00:11:25,400 down to seven teams to choose from. 205 00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:28,240 And then he eliminates Montreal right off the bat. 206 00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:30,800 And they both know that they don't want it to be a Western 207 00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:33,440 Conference team because that would mean that they would only 208 00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:36,040 play each other twice a year instead of four times a year. 209 00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:39,120 That's something that's more fleshed out in the books and not 210 00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:42,280 brought up in the show. So essentially that leaves you 211 00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:46,440 with Toronto or Ottawa, and Ottawa is closer and within 212 00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:49,840 driving distance. So after Ilya spends all day, 213 00:11:50,160 --> 00:11:54,680 and it's actually a few days in the books heavily implying what 214 00:11:54,680 --> 00:11:58,200 he wants, Shane comes to the conclusion that he should play 215 00:11:58,200 --> 00:12:00,680 for Ottawa. And that's not a stretch by any 216 00:12:00,680 --> 00:12:04,560 means. He basically hands Shane this 217 00:12:04,560 --> 00:12:08,920 decision on a platter, and then Ilya says, OK, so in reality, 218 00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:12,320 it's kind of both of them coming to this conclusion, even though 219 00:12:12,320 --> 00:12:15,720 it feels like it's Shane coming to this conclusion on his own, 220 00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:18,400 laying awake all night thinking about how to solve their 221 00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:20,560 problem. And I think the fact that Ilya 222 00:12:20,560 --> 00:12:25,520 leads him to a very narrow option for them is such a huge 223 00:12:25,520 --> 00:12:30,000 component of this argument. That Ilya truly does not care 224 00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:34,080 because this is now 10 years in the making almost and. 225 00:12:34,560 --> 00:12:36,760 Shane is all he wants emotionally. 226 00:12:36,960 --> 00:12:40,600 So when Shane finally says that he wants to be together, I 227 00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:42,600 think. Ilya would go literally anywhere 228 00:12:42,680 --> 00:12:46,840 if it meant that he gets to have Shane and for him their. 229 00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:50,240 Emotional connection is what he needs to survive more than he 230 00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:53,080 needs hockey, so he will put himself in any position 231 00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:55,520 necessary in order to facilitate that. 232 00:12:56,240 --> 00:12:58,320 And that is what Ilia signs up for. 233 00:12:58,560 --> 00:13:02,400 Because even at the table with Shane's parents, Ilia is not the 234 00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:04,240 one saying that they're going to wait. 235 00:13:04,240 --> 00:13:06,720 To come out after their careers are over. 236 00:13:07,480 --> 00:13:11,400 So that is another piece of this part of his misery, which is 237 00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:14,800 that Shane is still so restrictive after the fact. 238 00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:18,920 Even when he moves to Ottawa and he's made the sacrifice and it's 239 00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:23,040 made him more. Isolated than he was before, he 240 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:26,080 didn't realize that that was part of this gamble because all 241 00:13:26,080 --> 00:13:30,080 he cared about was having Shane and there really aren't that 242 00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:34,000 many real world examples of players leaving a team like 243 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:38,000 Boston and going to a lesser quality team. 244 00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:41,480 I would say the only one I could come up with was Johnny Hockey 245 00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:43,560 when he left Calgary and he went to. 246 00:13:43,560 --> 00:13:48,000 Columbus because he wanted to be closer to his family and he 247 00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:52,840 essentially downgraded teams in order to put his family in a 248 00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:56,360 better. Position logistically and and he 249 00:13:56,360 --> 00:14:00,080 liked that club, but. The difference being he didn't 250 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:04,200 stay in his own conference and. So I think it's like a really 251 00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:07,360 interesting thing to think about a player like Sidney Crosby or 252 00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:11,440 Alex Ovechkin leaving the Pens or the Capitals to go play for a 253 00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:15,400 division rival, lesser team because the public opinion would 254 00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:20,360 be so negative and confused. And again, there's not a lot of 255 00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:25,320 modern examples I can think of where people are choosing to go 256 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:27,800 to. A-Team like this, a lot of the 257 00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:33,480 times they're traded there, but it's it's not a choice like 258 00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:36,080 this. And I also think about Brad 259 00:14:36,080 --> 00:14:39,560 Marsh and when he was traded from the Bruins and he was our 260 00:14:39,560 --> 00:14:40,880 captain. That was horrible. 261 00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:44,960 As a Bruins fan, we were up in arms at our management and upper 262 00:14:44,960 --> 00:14:49,000 management for that trade. And it was very much framed like 263 00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:51,240 we were removing a limb from his body. 264 00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:55,440 He did not want to leave Boston. That's sort of what it would 265 00:14:55,440 --> 00:14:59,880 feel like in this scenario if Ilya Rosen of your captain. 266 00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:04,960 Actively chose to not even do contract negotiations and stay 267 00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:10,880 and went to a division rival and is playing against Boston 4 * a 268 00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:13,000 year. It would just be very confusing 269 00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:17,400 for everybody. And again, I think that it's 270 00:15:17,400 --> 00:15:22,200 such a great literary device, as someone who understands hockey, 271 00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:25,040 that she's put these characters in this position because it. 272 00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:29,160 Really, really would be highly controversial for everybody 273 00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:31,920 involved. I think this leads us really 274 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:35,520 effortlessly into the next question I got, which is, is it 275 00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:38,920 normal for someone to become a captain so young because in the 276 00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:41,480 book Shane and Ilya were teenagers? 277 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:44,400 Is it because they are centers? How does that work? 278 00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:48,720 I I really liked this question as a hockey player myself 279 00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:51,240 because I think this is a topic of conversation that has 280 00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:55,320 actually come up quite often in the hockey world pertaining to 281 00:15:55,320 --> 00:15:59,400 the ages of captains, because captains traditionally are 282 00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:01,880 veteran players. But it's becoming more of a 283 00:16:01,880 --> 00:16:05,120 trend that younger players are named as team captains. 284 00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:09,680 And there's a lot of back and forth over this because being 285 00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:12,480 named captain of your team is very important. 286 00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:16,840 It's a hugely defining moment for a club because the selection 287 00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:20,040 can have a direct effect on the team's performance. 288 00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:23,240 And the captain is a reflection of the room. 289 00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:27,080 And in many aspects, it's also a reflection of the franchise. 290 00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:32,400 And so captains traditionally can be named by popular vote, 291 00:16:32,680 --> 00:16:36,440 but sometimes they are chosen by management, or sometimes they 292 00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:39,120 can be named because of seniority or loyalty to the 293 00:16:39,120 --> 00:16:42,760 team. And those types of situations 294 00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:45,880 you're sort of immortalized by being named captain. 295 00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:48,800 But other times, the franchise will choose someone they see as 296 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:52,080 their franchise player, which is another way of calling someone 297 00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:54,680 their star player or their player of the future for the 298 00:16:54,680 --> 00:16:57,000 team. And a lot of times that person 299 00:16:57,000 --> 00:17:00,600 is who they select in the draft. So when you select a draft pick 300 00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:05,200 in the first round, that player sometimes can jump right up into 301 00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:08,359 the NHL right away instead of going to the minors for a few 302 00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:11,560 years to mature. Those players are often 303 00:17:11,560 --> 00:17:14,839 considered generational talents, like Shane and Ilya are in the 304 00:17:14,839 --> 00:17:18,400 book series. And it's very difficult to be 19 305 00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:22,119 or 20 and play in the NHL, not only because of your relative 306 00:17:22,119 --> 00:17:26,839 size playing against men, but also the speed of the game is 307 00:17:26,839 --> 00:17:30,520 such a big transition for a lot of players and it takes a while 308 00:17:30,520 --> 00:17:33,320 for them to become accustomed to the pace. 309 00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:37,440 So when a team has a player like Shane or Ilya who is capable of 310 00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:40,160 playing in the league right away, but then is also 311 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:44,120 successful right away, they've selected that player knowing 312 00:17:44,120 --> 00:17:47,640 that they will be building their roster around that player for 313 00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:49,880 years to come. And a player like that is 314 00:17:49,880 --> 00:17:52,760 considered a key piece of the puzzle when it comes to trying 315 00:17:52,760 --> 00:17:56,840 to win a Stanley Cup. So decisions for the team are 316 00:17:56,840 --> 00:18:00,960 being made with that player in mind and putting players around 317 00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:04,600 their star in order to give them the best chance of winning. 318 00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:09,360 The closest example I thought might be easy for people to 319 00:18:09,360 --> 00:18:15,040 understand, at least in the more modern era of hockey, is Connor 320 00:18:15,040 --> 00:18:18,920 McDavid, who is actually one of the players that Hudson himself 321 00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:23,000 has cited that he used as inspiration when building the 322 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:25,720 character of Shane. And Connor McDavid is the 323 00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:28,000 youngest named captain in NHL history. 324 00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:33,080 He was 19 years, 266 days old when he was named captain of the 325 00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:36,680 Edmonton Oilers, and he is still the captain of the Edmonton 326 00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:39,400 Oilers. And he is largely considered one 327 00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:40,640 of the greatest players of all time. 328 00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:44,160 So definitely a generational talent, much like Shane and Ilya 329 00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:48,000 are depicted as. And if we use him as a means of 330 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:52,360 comparison, to put it in perspective, he was granted 331 00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:58,080 what's called exceptional player status in 2012 by Hockey Canada, 332 00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:01,560 and that actually allowed him to begin playing junior hockey at 333 00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:06,520 age 15. And so that status basically 334 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:11,680 allows skilled underage hockey players to enter into the major 335 00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:14,520 Junior League earlier than they naturally would. 336 00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:20,280 But there's only been nine players as of 2024 who have been 337 00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:23,760 granted that exceptional status and he's one of them. 338 00:19:24,120 --> 00:19:27,880 Connor McDavid was selected first overall by the Edmonton 339 00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:33,200 Oilers in the 2015 NHL Entry Draft and he joined the Oilers 340 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:37,320 in their 2015 sixteen season. He ended up getting hurt. 341 00:19:37,320 --> 00:19:41,760 He was out for three months and he was still named to the NHL 342 00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:45,440 All Rookie Team and was a finalist for the Calder Memorial 343 00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:47,480 Trophy, which is the Rookie of the Year trophy. 344 00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:53,480 When he signed in July of 2015, he signed a three-year entry 345 00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:56,840 level contract with the team and the total for that deal was 346 00:19:57,280 --> 00:20:04,240 $11.3 million and he had up to 3.75 million annually in bonus 347 00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:07,160 incentives. So that's if you score this many 348 00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:10,120 goals or have this many points, you get bonus incentives. 349 00:20:10,360 --> 00:20:14,760 That next season he was 19 years old and the Oilers named him as 350 00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:16,600 her captain. And like I said, he's been their 351 00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:21,400 captain ever since. He had 100 points in his 201617 352 00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:24,280 season. When he was aged 20, he became 353 00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:27,200 the second youngest player to win the Art Ross Trophy, which 354 00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:30,160 is the trophy you win when you lead the league in scoring. 355 00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:35,120 He was also awarded the Heart Memorial Trophy, which is the 356 00:20:35,120 --> 00:20:38,280 MVP of the regular season for the whole league. 357 00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:42,200 He also won the Ted Lindsay Award, which is the MVP of the 358 00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:46,320 league as voted by the NHL Players Association, and he was 359 00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:50,480 also selected to the NHL First All Star team. 360 00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:53,120 Does that sound familiar to anyone? 361 00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:58,520 In terms of youngest players to ever be named captain, like I 362 00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:03,200 said, Connor McDavid is the youngest at 19 years, 266 days. 363 00:21:03,560 --> 00:21:05,480 The next one is Gabriel Landiscog. 364 00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:09,440 He is from the Colorado Avalanche. 365 00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:17,120 He was 19 years, 286 days old. Sidney Crosby was 19 years, 297 366 00:21:17,120 --> 00:21:20,040 days old when he was named captain of the Pittsburgh 367 00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:25,800 Penguins back in 2007. There's also Vincent Cavalier 368 00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:29,840 and Jonathan Tapes. The youngest player to win the 369 00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:32,320 Stanley Cup as captain was Sidney Crosby. 370 00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:36,240 He was 21 when the Penguins won in 2009. 371 00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:43,080 I would say that this new trend of young captains is more so 372 00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:47,120 from the 2000s on. It was not this way in the 80s 373 00:21:47,120 --> 00:21:49,520 or the 90s. Just to give you a little more 374 00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:54,320 information on kind of the nature of captaincy in the NHL, 375 00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:57,320 the captain is the only player allowed to speak with the 376 00:21:57,320 --> 00:22:00,720 referees about rule interpretations if they're not 377 00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:03,280 on the ice, though at the alternate captain can do that. 378 00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:07,760 He's also the person that would convey any of the players 379 00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:11,080 concerns to management. He is considered the 380 00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:14,240 representative of the team to the general public. 381 00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:19,080 They would often be associated with the team's social functions 382 00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:23,520 or raising money, doing any sort of philanthropy work. 383 00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:28,080 They are present for any sort of on ice or off ice functions that 384 00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:31,760 the team puts on, award presentation, ceremonial, face 385 00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:35,080 off, things of that nature. An example, I would say, of a 386 00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:39,720 team building around their franchise player is Connor 387 00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:45,600 Bedard, who plays for Chicago. He's someone who they threw all 388 00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:49,600 their chips at and named him captain right away. 389 00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:52,800 And that's a lot of responsibility to give someone 390 00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:57,280 who's that young and doesn't necessarily have any experience 391 00:22:57,280 --> 00:23:01,080 in the league. But we don't know how the rooms 392 00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:04,960 are managed because I think there's this unspoken rule that 393 00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:09,080 your captain is your leader, but there's also a lot of veteran 394 00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:12,120 players that might not even have a letter that can be very 395 00:23:12,120 --> 00:23:15,200 outspoken and lead in their own ways in the locker room. 396 00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:19,640 This new trend, I think, is largely brought on by management 397 00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:25,520 teams who really want to make these franchise player the face 398 00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:29,800 of their team, and they flash that franchise player around to 399 00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:33,360 make themselves more alluring and enticing for other players 400 00:23:33,360 --> 00:23:37,520 to come and play on the left or the right side of the franchise 401 00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:40,200 guy. But it also makes it so that the 402 00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:44,040 guys who are alternate captains can be more leaders behind the 403 00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:46,400 scenes. There's also situations like 404 00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:50,360 what happened with Quinn Hughes, who was the captain of 405 00:23:50,360 --> 00:23:54,120 Vancouver, and he actually left Vancouver even though he was 406 00:23:54,120 --> 00:23:58,760 captain to go to Minnesota. So he left a team in the Pacific 407 00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:00,200 and went to a team in the Central. 408 00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:02,800 So again, different than what Ilya does. 409 00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:05,000 He left his division. He's not playing in the same 410 00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:06,560 division that he left as captain. 411 00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:10,200 But a lot of times naming a player as captain, if they want 412 00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:12,600 to leave, they'll find a way out of their contract. 413 00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:17,600 And so management naming people as captain, it's not necessarily 414 00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:20,120 a way to entice them to stay, even though it is considered a 415 00:24:20,120 --> 00:24:23,120 really great honor to be the face of a franchise. 416 00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:27,160 Those guys are going to go where they're wanted and they're going 417 00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:28,600 to go where they're taken care of. 418 00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:33,160 And so you can have captains leave a franchise if they're 419 00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:36,080 unhappy. A lot of times you'll see teams 420 00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:39,280 name the best player on their team as the captain because it's 421 00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:42,400 sort of this unspoken rule. But I don't necessarily think 422 00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:44,760 that should always be the case. In a lot of instances, it's 423 00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:47,400 still what happens. It's not always the person who 424 00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:51,120 has the most sway in the room or is the most heavily respected. 425 00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:55,120 It kind of feels like this is very much just a new trend from 426 00:24:55,120 --> 00:24:57,680 management teams. But on the flip side, of course, 427 00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:00,120 it's a role that comes with a lot of responsibility and 428 00:25:00,120 --> 00:25:02,520 pressure too. And we see that in the long game 429 00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:06,000 for Ilya because he's the captain of a team that's losing. 430 00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:09,800 But we also see it for Shane when he's leading Montreal his 431 00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:11,480 whole career on a team that's winning. 432 00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:14,640 There's a lot of things that come packaged into being a 433 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:18,000 captain and being a good captain that I don't think the general 434 00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:20,400 public sees or would be aware of. 435 00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:24,960 This next question is male hockey culture feels borderline 436 00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:29,320 cruel given that Shane only gets two weeks off a year when player 437 00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:32,520 plays through broken bones and plays injured in the playoffs, 438 00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:35,840 that also feels cruel like how Ilya played through bruised 439 00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:38,600 ribs. Is there any sort of physical 440 00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:44,800 culture associated with hockey? So hockey is a notoriously tough 441 00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:47,960 and physical culture, especially at the professional level, where 442 00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:51,080 playing through injuries is often seen as part of the job or 443 00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:53,480 even a badge of honor. During the playoffs in 444 00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:58,520 particular, players routinely will compete through injuries 445 00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:01,960 and pain, and it's like how we see Ilya playing with bruised 446 00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:06,400 ribs in the show. In the NHL, many players play 447 00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:10,240 with fractures, torn ligaments, they can dislocate things, 448 00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:12,880 they'll get stitches, they are missing teeth. 449 00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:16,320 And those stories are often celebrated publicly afterwards. 450 00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:19,640 Once a teams eliminated from the playoffs, there's actually a big 451 00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:23,160 reveal of all the injuries each player on the team had sustained 452 00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:27,120 sustained during the series. At the same time, it does raise 453 00:26:27,120 --> 00:26:31,120 fair questions about whether the culture can become unhealthy or 454 00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:35,360 overly demanding. And this is reiterated in that 455 00:26:35,360 --> 00:26:38,560 second part of the question, which pointed out that Shane was 456 00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:42,040 given limited time off in the offseason by saying he gets two 457 00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:45,160 weeks off per year. I think this is indicative of 458 00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:49,200 the pressure players may feel to prioritize team success over 459 00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:51,280 their own long term health, potentially. 460 00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:55,120 There's definitely an ongoing conversation in sports around 461 00:26:55,120 --> 00:26:58,640 where the line is between toughness, expectation and 462 00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:01,840 player well-being. And hockey culture is kind of 463 00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:06,280 its own beast, so I also don't think that players view it as 464 00:27:06,360 --> 00:27:10,760 making a sacrifice in the same way that outsiders might in any 465 00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:12,840 elite sport. But hockey, especially playing 466 00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:16,520 through pain, is deeply embedded into the culture, and I 467 00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:18,960 personally experienced that in women's hockey as well. 468 00:27:19,360 --> 00:27:22,880 The mindset that you have is that you want to compete at the 469 00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:26,720 highest level and win and you will do whatever you can to stay 470 00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:30,240 on the ice. It's also another huge aspect of 471 00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:35,120 hockey culture and example of how deeply team oriented the 472 00:27:35,120 --> 00:27:38,240 sport is because hockey players are conditioned from a young age 473 00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:41,440 to think about the group and the team first and not the 474 00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:44,320 individual. So when guys play hurt, it's 475 00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:47,760 often not because they feel exploited too, but because they 476 00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:50,880 genuinely do not want to let their teammates down and they 477 00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:53,000 want to contribute however they can. 478 00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:55,840 In hockey especially, there's a mentality that everyone is 479 00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:59,120 sacrificing something for the team, whether that's pain or 480 00:27:59,120 --> 00:28:02,280 exhaustion or just your personal comfort level. 481 00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:06,560 That mindset definitely feels like it's part of the identity 482 00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:10,960 of the sport and I get that how to outsiders it can look very 483 00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:13,720 extreme, but within the culture it feels like part of your 484 00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:18,400 commitment and loyalty to your team and the expectation of 485 00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:20,560 doing everything possible to help the group win. 486 00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:24,760 That's a given. So that doesn't necessarily mean 487 00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:27,800 the culture is always healthy. There are definitely 488 00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:31,400 conversations now about long term player Wellness and whether 489 00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:34,280 athletes are being pushed too far, but at the end of the day, 490 00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:37,720 they do have team doctors and medical staff who evaluate 491 00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:40,760 injuries. But if a player lies, or if the 492 00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:43,600 player insists that they want to be out there, the doctors and 493 00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:46,080 the trainers will do what they can to assist them in that. 494 00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:49,320 So many players will get a cut on the ice, they'll go in the 495 00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:51,840 locker room, get stitches and be out there the next shift. 496 00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:55,720 That's not something that they're feeling forced to do 497 00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:58,040 emotionally. It's genuinely a part of the 498 00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:00,400 identity and mentality that they've grown up with from a 499 00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:04,760 very young age. And As for the time off in the 500 00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:07,360 show, Shane says he only gets two weeks off per year. 501 00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:11,760 NHL players typically get three to four months of offseason, 502 00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:15,120 which is, you know, mid-May to September depending on if you go 503 00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:19,480 into the playoffs or not. But this is rarely true rest 504 00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:21,880 because they still need to train daily. 505 00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:25,120 They still need to stay in shape or get stronger or recover from 506 00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:27,240 injury that they sustained in the regular season. 507 00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:30,840 For characters like Shane though, he also has a lot of 508 00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:33,800 obligations through his sponsorships and brand deals and 509 00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:36,680 stuff. So when he talks about taking 510 00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:41,080 those into account and only having two weeks off a year, I 511 00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:43,680 would say that his work is not strictly training. 512 00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:47,480 It also includes any sort of work with those brand deals. 513 00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:51,160 Personally for me, while playing in college, we had our regular 514 00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:54,600 season, then we would have one week off, and then we would 515 00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:57,880 start our spring workouts. That week off was something we 516 00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:01,400 were told we had, but it was sort of an unspoken expectation 517 00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:04,520 that you shouldn't take it off. So we would train all spring 518 00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:07,680 with our weightlifting workouts since the ice was taken out of 519 00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:09,400 the rink. And then all summer we had our 520 00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:12,600 lifting schedules and workout plans that we were expected to 521 00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:15,240 maintain before we came back for testing in the fall. 522 00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:19,920 A lot of this is not strictly enforced, but it's something you 523 00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:23,360 uphold yourself because as a player, you know that in order 524 00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:25,480 to be better the following season, you have to put in the 525 00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:28,320 work during the offseason. And I would not say this is 526 00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:31,200 exclusive to hockey, but really to any athletes at the 527 00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:33,840 collegiate, semi pro or professional level who truly 528 00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:36,800 want to be the best. They just know that that's what 529 00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:40,640 it takes to get there, and your time is a sacrifice that you 530 00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:43,600 make in order to be great. This next question made me 531 00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:46,080 laugh. It says in episode 3 when Scott 532 00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:49,200 and Shane talk. Scott spits on the ice and Shane 533 00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:51,080 spits back. Is that a part of hockey 534 00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:54,200 culture? So some things that look strange 535 00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:57,640 or even gross to people who are outside of the sport, like 536 00:30:57,640 --> 00:30:59,760 spitting on the ice. It makes me laugh because I 537 00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:01,320 almost don't even notice it anymore. 538 00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:05,720 And I'd say yes, this can be tied into the culture in a 539 00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:09,400 similar way to baseball players chewing on gum or sunflower 540 00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:11,080 seeds. They're often spitting on the 541 00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:13,520 ice, spitting over the bench, spitting on the bench. 542 00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:16,400 In that scene, they both spit onto the ice. 543 00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:20,720 And while I can see how it may look like Scott spits at Shane, 544 00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:25,240 I never read it that way myself. He's bent over very out of 545 00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:29,120 breath, breathing heavy. When you skate like that and 546 00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:31,960 play in a game like that and have a hard shift, a lot of 547 00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:35,280 times your spit can get kind of heavy in your throat and I think 548 00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:39,920 a lot of guys just spit it out. They also have half Shields on, 549 00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:42,000 so that makes it easier to do that. 550 00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:46,080 I personally never spit, but that's because I find it gross. 551 00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:49,240 But I also had a full cage in front of my space so if I were 552 00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:51,800 to spit it would probably hit the cage anyways and that's 553 00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:54,880 disgusting. But yeah, just like any high 554 00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:58,400 endurance sport when you're breathing heavy, a lot of people 555 00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:01,720 find that they have a buildup of spit sometimes and they just 556 00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:05,360 spit it out onto the ice. Especially since the rink is 557 00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:07,200 cold. So imagine running outside in 558 00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:09,720 cold air. Your body itself is never cold 559 00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:12,480 because you're exerting so much energy and you're sweating, but 560 00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:15,040 the air in your lungs is cold because of the temperature of 561 00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:17,640 the rink. And there's also a lot of times 562 00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:20,720 where players will squirt their water into their mouths and then 563 00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:22,640 spit the water back out onto the ice. 564 00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:26,400 I think sometimes it's because you don't want to drink too much 565 00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:28,240 water and get a cramp, so you spit it out. 566 00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:29,920 I've seen a lot of my teammates do that. 567 00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:32,200 But sometimes it's also just to flush out your mouth. 568 00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:35,640 So I don't think it's unique to hockey. 569 00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:37,960 I think there are people. Who spit in a lot of sports? 570 00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:42,800 But yeah, as someone who's played, I can understand how 571 00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:46,720 players would get in the habit of doing it just given how your 572 00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:50,960 throat can feel after a really long shift or a really long 573 00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:53,120 game. Like, it totally makes sense to 574 00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:55,360 me that there would be a build up of it. 575 00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:58,240 All right, This question is, what are your thoughts on Jacob 576 00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:01,720 announcing that a majority of an episode will feature Mozart's 577 00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:04,560 Requiem? I can't wait to talk about this. 578 00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:07,680 I was thrilled that he said this in an interview. 579 00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:10,880 And I wanted to give a little bit of context into Mozart's 580 00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:13,760 Requiem because it's actually a very fascinating piece of music. 581 00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:19,160 And historically, there's a lot of really cool nuance facts 582 00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:21,520 about it that I think people might be interested in. 583 00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:28,880 So Mozart's Requiem and D minor is a really interesting piece of 584 00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:33,200 history, mainly because of the circumstances surrounding the 585 00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:37,120 piece itself. So in 1791, Mozart was 586 00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:41,960 commissioned to write a Requiem mass for a nobleman, and 587 00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:46,240 evidently the man that commissioned him was known for 588 00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:49,560 paying the composers to write the music and then claiming the 589 00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:53,360 music as his own later on. And at the time that Mozart was 590 00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:57,320 commissioned for this piece, he was ill and he became very 591 00:33:57,320 --> 00:33:59,000 consumed by the work once he began. 592 00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:02,480 And according to his widow, he began to believe that he was 593 00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:06,440 actually composing the music for his own funeral, which is very 594 00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:11,520 ominous considering he died at age 35 before he was able to 595 00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:14,280 finish it. The fact that it was unfinished 596 00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:18,239 actually became part of the lore, and Mozart fully completed 597 00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:22,400 only a few sections of the score and had left bits and pieces 598 00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:25,040 like vocal lines and sketches for the rest of it. 599 00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:30,440 And so he had a student named Franz who completed the piece 600 00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:33,400 after Mozart's death, so that the man who commissioned it 601 00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:36,840 would be able to pay Mozart's wife, Constance for it. 602 00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:41,520 And to this day, there's still a lot of debate over exactly how 603 00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:44,880 much of the final version was truly Mozart's work and how much 604 00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:48,679 of it was his students, because Mozart did not complete the work 605 00:34:48,679 --> 00:34:50,480 himself. A lot of historians actually 606 00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:55,440 feel like the Requiem has a sort of haunted quality to it, not 607 00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:59,360 only because of the the subject matter it's dealing with, which 608 00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:02,880 is death, but listeners also know he died while writing it. 609 00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:05,040 So that adds to that haunted quality. 610 00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:09,680 The song that's probably the most famous is Lacrimosa, and 611 00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:13,760 it's tied to that same sort of mythology because Mozart only 612 00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:17,440 had completed the 1st 8 bars of that song before his death. 613 00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:21,640 And that song sort of like haunts the narrative in many 614 00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:25,240 ways over time. There was a lot of storytelling 615 00:35:25,240 --> 00:35:29,120 behind the work that I think has become more romanticized in 616 00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:31,200 large part through film and fiction. 617 00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:37,200 A lot of people depict the story as though the work sort of 618 00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:40,720 psychologically taunted Mozart into writing his own funeral 619 00:35:40,720 --> 00:35:43,720 mass. That notion has been disproved. 620 00:35:43,720 --> 00:35:46,720 But I think that stories and lore like that have very much 621 00:35:46,720 --> 00:35:50,800 made the Requiem itself and each of the songs within it have this 622 00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:54,920 very deep association with obsession and mortality and 623 00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:58,360 doom. And it's a big reason why a lot 624 00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:01,160 of film makers and television creators use it so often, 625 00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:02,880 because it has an instant effect. 626 00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:06,160 When you hear a lot of the songs from the Requiem and the notes 627 00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:09,760 from it in particular, I think even audiences who don't know 628 00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:14,600 classical music can feel through its sound that they're meant to 629 00:36:15,240 --> 00:36:18,240 evoke certain emotions. While listening to the Requiem, 630 00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:22,880 the notes used throughout it are often described as apocalyptic 631 00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:27,840 or tragic or sacred. It's made of different sections. 632 00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:30,720 All of them can be used in very different ways in film and TV, 633 00:36:30,720 --> 00:36:34,320 so there's moments that can be used for depicting something 634 00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:38,920 chaotic like a battle or a war scene, or even someone having a 635 00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:41,000 mental break. Then there's songs like 636 00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:45,680 Lacrimosa, which instantly bring you into the feeling of grief or 637 00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:48,200 mourning. It feels more intimate, which 638 00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:52,560 would make it ideal for using, in scenes that cover funerals or 639 00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:58,000 heavy emotional moments, death. And then, you know, the opening 640 00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:02,440 intuitus has this solemn, ritualistic feeling that can 641 00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:07,480 make scenes feel kind of spiritually heavy were timeless. 642 00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:10,760 And the beauty of using an instrumental piece of music, 643 00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:14,000 like classical music in film and television, is that the music 644 00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:17,320 itself can provide a really interesting contrast because 645 00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:20,680 visually we are being shown something specific, but the 646 00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:24,360 music can make us feel something we may not be seeing as clearly 647 00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:27,440 on screen. So emotions in particular are 648 00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:31,640 hard to show an audience without the character saying them 649 00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:34,280 outright. But music, and in particular 650 00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:38,920 classical music, can be the use to make the emotional undertones 651 00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:43,640 clear in the absence of words. So a lot of the time songs like 652 00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:47,160 the ones in the Requiem can draw a really beautiful parallel 653 00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:50,880 between the beautiful and terrible parts of humanity. 654 00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:55,400 And in this case, Mozart's music is described as elegant and 655 00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:58,640 human and meant to celebrate parts of life that can be 656 00:37:58,640 --> 00:38:02,440 beautiful, despite the subject matter being death itself. 657 00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:05,800 Since it is a requiem, which is literally a composition Or 658 00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:09,080 Catholic mass used to lay the souls of the dead to rest, 659 00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:13,520 Knowing that this is the intention behind the music helps 660 00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:16,600 to create a lot of tension, and it lets directors like Jacob use 661 00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:18,440 it in multiple ways depending on the scene. 662 00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:21,560 So even though in a literal sense it's a funeral 663 00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:25,960 composition, it can be used by him sincerely or literally for 664 00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:29,560 flashbacks of funerals, or it could be used ironically. 665 00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:33,080 It can be used to depict spirituality or a heavy 666 00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:36,760 emotional moment between characters, or even for a single 667 00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:39,960 character on their own. It can be used in moments where 668 00:38:40,240 --> 00:38:44,440 they're depicting dark and ugly moments of trauma and grief, or 669 00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:49,120 even potentially satire in regards to heated rivalry and 670 00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:51,720 Jacob saying he plans to use this for the majority of an 671 00:38:51,720 --> 00:38:54,280 episode in season 2. I have a handful of moments I 672 00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:56,480 feel this can. Slot into. 673 00:38:57,040 --> 00:39:01,200 For me, chapters 22 through 24 of the long game feel like they 674 00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:04,720 could be 1 episode, and the emotional core of those chapters 675 00:39:04,720 --> 00:39:09,600 feels consistent with the themes of the Requiem, along with Jacob 676 00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:13,880 creatively finding ways to intertwine Ilya's mother and 677 00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:18,760 father wounds, or his therapy and his deepening depression. 678 00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:23,040 So I think most people assign this news to the plane scene, 679 00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:26,400 but I do not personally. If he uses it there, I wouldn't 680 00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:29,040 be surprised per SE, but I do not think that's where it would 681 00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:30,840 be the most impactful. Honestly. 682 00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:34,000 The plane scene will make us feel those emotions visually 683 00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:37,040 because it's an event and an action that is happening to 684 00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:39,840 Ilya. But the music from the Requiem 685 00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:43,560 would in my opinion be most effective in his moments of 686 00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:46,480 solitude where nothing is happening to him per SE. 687 00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:49,120 He is simply feeling and not speaking and we are meant to 688 00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:53,160 enter into that pain alongside him and can have the music be an 689 00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:56,200 entry point to that. This next question, I really 690 00:39:56,200 --> 00:40:00,040 loved it says Ilya's father calls him lazy in episode 1 and 691 00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:02,680 in the tuna melt scene Ilya calls himself lazy. 692 00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:05,760 Does lazy represent something I might be missing? 693 00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:08,000 I keep thinking about that. He is a professional. 694 00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:12,040 Athlete and obviously not lazy as in lazy might be a 695 00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:15,120 replacement for another word, like when Shane calls Ilya an 696 00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:17,720 asshole or when Ilya calls Shane boring. 697 00:40:17,720 --> 00:40:23,800 So I loved this topic. I really really liked writing 698 00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:26,840 about this. In the book, Ilya's father does 699 00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:29,880 not call Ilya lazy. So this is a show specific 700 00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:33,680 edition and I find it absolutely brilliant because it creates 701 00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:36,840 this really impactful narrative payoff in the tuna melt scene in 702 00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:39,920 episode 4. The overarching theme in the 703 00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:43,040 book though, is that Ilya's father shames him. 704 00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:46,360 He belittles him, he puts him down in his presence. 705 00:40:46,680 --> 00:40:50,560 Ilya describes himself as a trembling child who is awaiting 706 00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:54,880 punishment, and so I interpret his father's choice of words as 707 00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:58,880 connective tissue between Ilya and his mother, because his 708 00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:01,760 father was very hard on his mother, who suffered from 709 00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:06,520 depression, and I find it very likely he called her lazy too, 710 00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:10,720 which Ilya would have heard. And so to be called lazy himself 711 00:41:10,720 --> 00:41:14,560 when he's very clearly not would be exceptionally cutting for 712 00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:16,560 him. I feel even more strongly about 713 00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:19,960 that theory when I put it in context of Ilya's internal 714 00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:23,720 dialogue in the long game, where he struggles to get out of bed 715 00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:26,320 and recognizes that he's always tired. 716 00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:29,960 And he thinks to himself that he may be depressed and plays it 717 00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:31,560 off. Because it's not like he stays 718 00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:35,680 in bed all day crying and remembers that neither did his 719 00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:37,680 mother. So I think when he's talking 720 00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:41,040 with Galena and therapy, he recalls his mother was often 721 00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:43,680 resting. It doesn't feel like a stretch 722 00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:46,480 for me to imagine that Gregory called her lazy. 723 00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:49,440 Do I think he means it in a literal sense? 724 00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:52,560 No, because clearly Ilya is not lazy. 725 00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:58,080 But to Gregory, I think Ilya is representative of a lot of his 726 00:41:58,080 --> 00:42:01,320 resentment. Perhaps Ilya being so similar to 727 00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:03,360 his mother was the root of that resentment. 728 00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:05,920 And so he spoke to him as he spoke to her. 729 00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:10,360 And Lazy embodies a multitude of emotions like resentment and 730 00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:14,720 bitterness and indignation, maybe, or envy, possibly. 731 00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:18,400 I certainly think envy can be found in how Alexi speaks to 732 00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:21,280 Ilya. And in both the book and the 733 00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:25,200 show, there's an emphasis on how Shane is very serious about his 734 00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:26,960 training, his diet, his performance. 735 00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:32,360 And Ilya has a more LAX approach to hockey while he smokes and he 736 00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:35,440 parties and he goes out during the summers, and he has a much 737 00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:38,280 more LAX feeling towards hockey in general. 738 00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:41,600 The low hanging fruit would be to associate his behavior with 739 00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:46,920 being lazy, but we also rarely have a scene where we see Shane 740 00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:50,280 training that isn't mirrored with Ilya training. 741 00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:54,160 And so while he has this stereotype of being this cocky 742 00:42:54,160 --> 00:42:58,680 Russian assigned to him, while Shane is described by Ilya 743 00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:03,240 himself as everything the League wanted from their stars, is 744 00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:06,520 aware of that discrepancy between the two of them. 745 00:43:06,520 --> 00:43:09,440 He's aware and he knows that he is cocky. 746 00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:13,160 He knows that he has painted as the bad boy to Shane's perfect 747 00:43:13,160 --> 00:43:15,440 image. But there's also the reality I 748 00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:18,920 think he's often blinded to because of the comparisons made 749 00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:22,920 between them, which is that he works just as hard as Shane does 750 00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:25,880 behind the scenes. So in the lead up to Ilya 751 00:43:25,880 --> 00:43:29,960 calling himself lazy in the tuna melt scene, he says he thinks he 752 00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:32,040 will find someone else, but he is lazy. 753 00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:37,120 So to me, lazy read as one of those moments where he's saying 754 00:43:37,120 --> 00:43:40,680 something emotionally honest without being able to fully say 755 00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:44,040 it out loud yet. So what he means is, I actually 756 00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:47,160 already found the person I want, I don't need to go out and find 757 00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:49,920 someone else. Because at that point, Ilya's 758 00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:52,960 already chosen Shane, whether he's consciously ready to admit 759 00:43:52,960 --> 00:43:56,160 it or not, and because of that, he has no interest in looking 760 00:43:56,160 --> 00:43:59,400 for someone else in Boston. But Shane only hears the part 761 00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:02,400 where Ilya says he thinks he will find someone else, and 762 00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:06,680 misses the subtext in the part about him being lazy preventing 763 00:44:06,680 --> 00:44:10,240 him from finding that other person on purpose. 764 00:44:10,240 --> 00:44:13,840 Framing it as laziness also becomes a way for Ilya to hide 765 00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:16,680 the vulnerability of what he's actually confessing. 766 00:44:17,080 --> 00:44:20,560 And the whole day and lead up to the tuna melt scene, Ilya is 767 00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:22,560 terrified. So we see him walk up to the 768 00:44:22,560 --> 00:44:26,520 edge of honesty multiple times but never fully jump over the 769 00:44:26,520 --> 00:44:29,560 line until he says Shane's name out loud. 770 00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:33,080 He wants Shane to understand that there is no one else for 771 00:44:33,080 --> 00:44:36,320 him, but neither of them is emotionally ready to confront 772 00:44:36,320 --> 00:44:39,840 that directly yet. And So what makes the scene even 773 00:44:39,840 --> 00:44:43,640 more meaningful is how it opens the door for their relationship 774 00:44:43,640 --> 00:44:47,560 to deepen emotionally. In a way Shane is actually 775 00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:52,600 unaware of because in a moment of self deprecation Ilya uses a 776 00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:56,400 word that has clearly been weaponized against him before by 777 00:44:56,400 --> 00:45:00,200 his father for years. Lazy isn't just a throwaway 778 00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:04,120 comment because for Ilya it's tied to his identity and also 779 00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:07,120 the shame he feels within himself and hasn't fully dealt 780 00:45:07,120 --> 00:45:09,600 with yet. So when Shane immediately 781 00:45:09,600 --> 00:45:14,080 rejects that notion and doesn't accept him using the word lazy 782 00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:17,920 in regards to himself, Shane is starting to actually dismantle 783 00:45:17,920 --> 00:45:21,880 something within Ilya. And as viewers, we know that 784 00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:25,640 Ilya has never been lazy when it comes to Shane, especially in 785 00:45:25,640 --> 00:45:28,440 the way he pursues Shane and approaches their relationship. 786 00:45:28,720 --> 00:45:32,480 He planned the commercial in Toronto in order to see him 787 00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:35,960 right away. But it goes beyond the romance, 788 00:45:35,960 --> 00:45:39,400 too, because Shane takes hockey and his career incredibly 789 00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:42,680 seriously, so for him to say something like that to Ilia 790 00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:46,440 carries a lot of weight. Shane sees him as someone who is 791 00:45:46,440 --> 00:45:48,640 driven in every aspect of his life. 792 00:45:48,880 --> 00:45:52,520 He's not lazy with his game. He's not passive when it comes 793 00:45:52,520 --> 00:45:55,960 to things or people he wants. Ilya goes after what he wants 794 00:45:55,960 --> 00:45:58,720 and takes initiative instead of waiting for things to happen. 795 00:45:59,040 --> 00:46:02,360 And it becomes a really beautiful moment where Shane 796 00:46:02,360 --> 00:46:05,720 unintentionally begins to reframe the meaning of the word 797 00:46:05,960 --> 00:46:10,160 that Ilya has attached to himself negatively for most of 798 00:46:10,160 --> 00:46:11,320 his life. So. 799 00:46:11,320 --> 00:46:13,400 I'm going to end the. Podcast episode there. 800 00:46:13,720 --> 00:46:16,400 I absolutely loved this spread of questions. 801 00:46:16,400 --> 00:46:20,440 I think there was a good healthy combination of hockey ones 802 00:46:20,440 --> 00:46:25,880 talking about season 2 to music and really insightful angles 803 00:46:25,880 --> 00:46:28,960 that people are taking about Shane and Elias characters and 804 00:46:29,440 --> 00:46:32,640 and what they are written like. And I love talking about that. 805 00:46:32,640 --> 00:46:35,320 I think that's one of the things I love deep diving into the 806 00:46:35,320 --> 00:46:39,320 most. So as always, if you sent in a 807 00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:42,960 question, thank you so much. I appreciate it endlessly. 808 00:46:43,240 --> 00:46:47,160 It's so much fun to discuss questions with people, and if 809 00:46:47,160 --> 00:46:50,840 you want to send in a question, please feel free to leave me any 810 00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:55,080 any question at all in my DMS or on any of my socials. 811 00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:57,960 And as always, if you've made it to the end, thank you for 812 00:46:57,960 --> 00:47:00,320 listening. I really appreciate it and I 813 00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:04,240 look forward to our next chat together in an upcoming episode.