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Hi and welcome to K Let's Talk, 
the podcast where we break down 

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storytelling across books, 
television and film with a 

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special love for book to screen 
adaptation. 

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Here we talk about craft, 
character arcs, structure, 

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dialogue, visual language, and 
the creative choices that shape 

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how a story lands. 
If you like thoughtful, 

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conversational, deep dives into 
the stories you can't stop 

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thinking about, you're in the 
right place. 

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Let's talk. 
Hi everyone and welcome back to 

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the podcast. 
This will be Part 2 of my heated

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rivalry. 
Q and AI had reached out to 

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people who follow along with my 
content on TikTok and Instagram 

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asking for any questions. 
They wanted me to do a deep dive

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on or talk about on here. 
And I had so many that I had to 

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break it up into two parts. 
So I already published Part 1. 

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Be sure to go back and listen to
that and this is going to dive 

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into some of the other topics 
that these questions fell under,

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including character psychology, 
some of the more hockey relevant

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questions I got, side 
characters, supporting 

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characters, visuals for season 
2, and also some personal 

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questions about my process and 
how I and analyzing the show. 

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Before we get started, just a 
quick note that this episode 

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includes discussion of 
disordered eating. 

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It's not graphic, but if that's 
something you're sensitive to, 

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feel free to skip. 
I just want to flag that so you 

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can have a heads up on that. 
And we will be discussing 

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spoilers for the long game if 
you're looking to avoid those. 

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So without further ado, here's 
Part 2 of our heated Rivalry 

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Q&A. 
This question is I'm curious 

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about Ilya's jealousy. 
He has a double standard in that

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it's OK for him to have hookups 
but is jealous when Shane has 

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actual relationships. 
Have you addressed this already?

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Even in the long game, Ilya 
still feels a little 

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uncomfortable with the Rose 
factor, so this might be a long 

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response. 
I think this presents as a 

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double standard on the surface, 
but it's actually more of a 

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window into Ilya's deeper 
insecurities and fears that stem

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from his childhood wounds and 
traumas. 

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And it's important to keep in 
mind that Shane is also jealous 

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of Svetlana and gets upset when 
Ilya suggests marrying her, even

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if strictly for a passport. 
So they both experience 

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jealousy, and jealousy is 
inherently an emotion that 

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doesn't always make logical 
sense sometimes. 

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But Ilya has a fear of being 
unlovable and also of not being 

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good enough for Shane or chosen 
by him. 

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So I think to answer this, you 
have to 1st determine whether or

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not the significance attached to
sex and hookups is the same for 

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Shane versus Ilya. 
And it's not because for Ilya, 

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sex has an entirely different 
meaning to him than it does for 

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Shane, at least when they first 
meet. 

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And by the time Ilya is in love 
with Shane, sex with women is 

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meaningless compared to his 
relationship with Shane. 

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It takes Ilya being put in 
Shane's position, meaning 

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watching him be with other 
people for him to start to grow 

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and have that character 
development. 

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But it all stems from the fact 
that Ilya has been sleeping with

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people since he was 14, and that
wasn't an attempt to cope with 

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his own trauma in the long game.
Ilya is speaking with his 

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therapist about this and says 
that initially hockey was Ilyas 

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escape after his mother died 
because it got him away from 

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home and let him get out some of
his anger. 

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But then he also started to use 
sex as a way to escape his 

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trauma as well because it kept 
his mind and body busy. 

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At first it was girls only and 
then boys too. 

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Not as many, but some. 
And his therapist points out 

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that that would have been very 
risky for him to be doing that 

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in Russia. 
And Ilya says that is part of 

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what he liked about it, the 
danger. 

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And in heated rivalry, he 
reflects that he loved being 

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with people he knew he shouldn't
be with. 

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He couldn't resist a bad idea. 
He also tells his therapist that

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his desire to be with men didn't
scare him, and in part that's 

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because he simply saw it as 
another opportunity for more 

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sex, and he felt that being 
attracted to men had made him 

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evolve. 
Whenever Ilya reflects back on 

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his experiences before Shane, 
they are very impersonal and 

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described like a means to an 
end. 

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He would get an endorphin rush 
and feel relaxed after. 

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He enjoyed meeting new people, 
talking to them, charming them. 

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And when he was in Boston, he 
went out and hooked up with 

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people all the time, went to 
clubs, went to parties. 

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But in the long game, he says he
doesn't miss sleeping around 

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because now he only wants Shane 
and is very happy to be in a 

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monogamous relationship with 
him. 

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But that sparks a memory where 
Ilya recalls that he and Shane 

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had talked about being with 
other people a couple years 

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before the moment in the book 
that he's talking to his 

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therapist. 
He had told. 

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Shane as casually as he could, 
that if Shane wanted to have sex

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with other men while they were 
apart, since that was going to 

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be most of the time with their 
schedules, that Shane could. 

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And Ilya figured that made sense
because Shane had just figured 

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out his sexuality at the same 
time that he admitted he was in 

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love with Ilya. 
So to Ilya, if Shane wanted to 

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explore sex beyond what Ilya 
could give him, he had tried to 

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convince himself that it didn't 
matter. 

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So long as Shane's heart 
belonged to him, he would be 

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able to convince himself that he
was OK with that. 

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But deep down he knew that was a
lie, and Shane takes this 

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suggestion very poorly because 
he thought it might have been 

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Ilya's way of letting him know 
that he had been cheating or 

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wanted to hook up with other 
people. 

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But then Ilya tells Shane he 
doesn't believe in cheating 

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because he didn't own Shane, and
that further upset Shane to the 

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point where they didn't talk for
four days. 

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Then when Shane finally 
confronts him about it, he asks 

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Ilya if he really wouldn't mind 
if Shane slept with someone 

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else. 
And Ilya, in a way that he self 

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sacrifices all the time, says of
course not if that's what you 

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would want. 
But then Shane tells him he's a 

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moron because that isn't what he
wants. 

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And it's only then when Ilya is 
flooded with relief because the 

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thought of someone else touching
Shane made him feel sick, and he

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had been worried that Shane was 
calling him from a hotel room in

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Philly because he was about to 
hook up with someone else or had

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already hooked up with someone 
else. 

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So this is an example of Ilya's 
initial feelings around sex and 

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what it means to him versus 
Shane, and how those feelings 

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evolve once he's in love. 
He had never been in love 

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before, so emotions had never 
entered into it until Shane. 

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And this memory that he's 
telling his therapist is where 

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we can see that Ilya would be 
upset over anyone being with 

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Shane and not just Rose. 
But Rose is a really pivotal 

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part of the story because she 
remains in Shane's life after 

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they sleep together. 
Shane had hooked up with other 

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men, and Ilya and Shane speak of
it in the books, but Rose and 

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Shane are friends. 
So for Ilya, Rose is the only 

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other person that Shane dated 
fit with, and then he liked her 

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enough to still be friends after
they dated. 

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Which means it was more than 
just sex for him. 

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And she represented an 
alternative life that Shane 

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could have had where it would 
have been easier and picture 

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perfect compared to the more 
complicated relationship that 

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Ilya and Shane have been hiding 
within. 

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Ilya brings up Rose often in the
book, but in My Dinner with 

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Hayden, the bonus scene, Ilya 
admits that he actually likes 

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her a lot. 
He puts a movie on the TV with 

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her in it, calls her beautiful, 
and then jokingly says you could

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have had it all. 
And this line is another window 

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into his feelings and why Rose 
has always felt like somewhat of

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a threat to him. 
And it's because at one point 

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when Rose and Shane got 
together, Ilia had to face that 

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very real fear that Shane could 
be with someone else who he 

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could love freely and easily and
who he was great with and who 

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Shane got along very well with. 
And at that point, when Rose and

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Shane get together, Ilya does 
not know that Shane is gay, 

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because Shane still does not 
know that himself, not fully 

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until episode 5. 
So for Ilya. 

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Watching Shane being with Rose 
or any other woman is. 

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Still considered a very real 
option for him. 

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Not to mention Ilya was already 
in a very fragile state because 

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of how the tuna melt scene went 
and Shane leaving, so he would 

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have been upset no matter who it
was and who came into the 

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picture next. 
But when Shane and Rose first 

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get together, Ilya is 
experiencing jealousy for the 

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first time ever. 
He acknowledges that he should 

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be happy for Shane. 
Why shouldn't Shane be with a 

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beautiful woman when Ilya was so
often himself? 

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But because Ilya is so observant
and studies Shane, he knows that

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this is not normal behavior for 
him. 

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It strays outside the boundaries
of what Ilya has learned and 

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expected of Shane. 
So for Shane to behave this way 

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doubly knocks him on his ass and
makes him question if Shane 

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might be in love. 
Which sends him spiraling so 

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much that he purposely hooks up 
with a girl who looks like Shane

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with dark hair and freckles to 
cope. 

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He's being immature here because
he's still young. 

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He doesn't know how to deal with
his frustration and jealousy, 

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which are both foreign feelings 
to him, and so he behaves in a 

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retaliatory way, trying to 
pretend that he's unbothered. 

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And the club scene is the first 
time they see each other outside

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of the hockey setting, and 
they're both so hurt by seeing 

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each other with other people. 
Subconsciously, it's because 

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they know they can't behave this
way in public with each other 

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like they'd want to. 
And Ilya reflects on that in the

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hotel room after, about how he 
would have wanted to dance with 

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Shane and couldn't, or how good 
he looked. 

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And I think that a huge part of 
Ilya's jealousy of Rose is that 

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Shane is able to behave that way
with her and not with Ilya. 

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And the appearance of Rose 
forces Ilya to start to 

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recognize that the feelings 
inside of him and the thoughts 

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he has about Shane are becoming 
too hard and painful to ignore. 

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He had been with many women who 
were fun and gorgeous, but he 

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didn't think about them after, 
and he didn't long for them in 

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the same way that he did with 
Shane. 

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That's something he thinks of in
the book as well. 

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At one point, he even thinks to 
himself that Shane is the only 

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person to set him on fire and he
knows that being with Shane is 

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not a realistic option. 
But he's so desperate for things

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to continue. 
And that's reinforced in the All

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Star game in Tampa when Ilya is 
trying to figure out if Shane 

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and Rose are together and he 
worries that Shane will tell 

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him. 
I'm seeing someone, I'm engaged.

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I don't need you anymore. 
Ilya is not jealous of Rose. 

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He is scared of Rose having 
Shane and Ilya not being able to

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have him anymore in any 
capacity. 

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Keep in mind that Shane is also 
jealous of Spit Watch, so again 

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their jealousy is aligned there 
In the finale when Rose texts 

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and Ilia gets jealous and says 
yeah not too gay to fuck Rose 

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Landry. 
To me, that actually means you 

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got to be her boyfriend in 
public and people loved you for 

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it, and I'm upset that I don't 
have that with you. 

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So Rose gets part of Shane that 
Ilya doesn't have access to yet 

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and feels like he never will at 
that point in the storyline. 

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So Rose triggers that within 
him. 

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He's also jealous of a lot of 
things in the long game, and 

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that doesn't improve until they 
both commit to communicating 

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better and working through their
hang ups. 

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So it's very much a part of his 
character growth and development

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that as he ages and continues to
learn what it means to be a 

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partner to someone, how to deal 
with his depression in his own 

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mental health, and also learns 
how to ask for what he needs and

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how he wants to be loved, that 
that jealousy starts to go away.

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And Shane is a big. 
Part of that because. 

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As they start to communicate 
better, he heals that really 

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deep seated insecurity and fear 
from his childhood that Ilya is 

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unlovable and not good enough 
for Shane to be chosen by him. 

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And so it's a very full circle 
moment that takes them both a 

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long time to get to that 
resolution. 

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But I don't think that 
initially, when this is 

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happening in the story, it's a 
double standard so much as it is

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an irrational feeling that Ilya 
doesn't have the tools yet to 

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cope with and deal with 
properly. 

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This question is how does hockey
or what little we see play a 

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role in their relationship, good
and bad? 

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I would say that hockey is the 
only way. 

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This book is what it is, and 
this show is what it is, in my 

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opinion. 
It's been so interesting for me 

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to see how. 
People. 

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That don't have the added 
context of the sport and its 

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culture are consuming it because
it almost feels like there's 

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this additional layer to 
everything we see on screen that

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only hockey adjacent people 
would understand fully or even 

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see and feel. 
I think that is in large part 

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because this show was Canadian 
made and Canadian funded and it 

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was initially only going to air 
in Canada. 

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So the writing may leave out a 
lot of the exposition because it

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would have assumed it's 
audience. 

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00:13:10,440 --> 00:13:13,200
And that audience would know the
parameters of hockey and the 

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implications of its culture on 
these two characters a lot 

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00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:19,920
better than a global community 
that's very unfamiliar with it. 

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But to me, the role it plays in 
their relationship is harder to 

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00:13:22,680 --> 00:13:26,760
quantify because hockey is 
essentially who they are and 

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what they were raised and shaped
within. 

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00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:33,600
And you can't simply separate 
Ilia or Shane from hockey 

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because it is deeply a part of 
them. 

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And I say that as someone who 
played from the time I could 

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walk and was raised in a hockey 
family. 

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And I'm a female hockey player 
in America who only played 

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00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:48,880
through college, not a male 
phenom hockey player who is the 

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00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:52,600
face of an Original Six team in 
the NHL and represents my 

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00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:55,160
country on an Olympic and 
national team roster. 

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So even my own experience has 
its own limits on what I can 

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assume this would feel like for 
them. 

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00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:04,320
I can only project so much of 
what I know and understand onto 

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00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:06,600
them. 
But what I can say is that 

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hockey culture permeates into 
every facet of my life in one 

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way or another. 
And I think that's true for 

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00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:15,240
every hockey player. 
Nearly every pillar in my life 

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can be traced back to or 
connected to hockey in some way.

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00:14:18,760 --> 00:14:22,080
So I'd say on a more surface 
level, the hockey in this series

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00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:26,800
and the book series is the 
arena, pun intended, that they 

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operate within. 
They meet at a rink. 

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00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:33,280
They do a commercial in a rink, 
they talk in the locker room, 

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they talk in a hotel gym, they 
hook up in hotels on the road 

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and at awards and at All Star 
events. 

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00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:42,440
They only hook up when their 
teams play each other when 

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they're at the same hockey 
events. 

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Shane and Ilya as a pairing 
don't exist outside of hockey 

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00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:50,120
related spaces or events for a 
very long time. 

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Their worlds and lives are 
scheduled for them. 

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They are focused on improving 
their performance and sport and 

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largely don't think about or do 
things outside of that. 

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It also means that they are two 
people who can fully understand 

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the unique experience they both 
share, because even their own 

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00:15:09,040 --> 00:15:11,880
teammates would not fully 
understand the pressures that 

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00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:15,720
Shane and Ilya specifically are 
under due to their talent levels

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00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:20,240
and captaincies and the very 
high expectations thrust upon 

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00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:22,280
them from the time they were 
very young. 

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I think the best way to 
summarize that is a passage in 

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heated rivalries. 
The book where after Shane and 

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00:15:29,480 --> 00:15:32,840
Ilya play each other in 
international tournament, they 

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00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:37,200
lock eyes and Shane squeezes 
Ilya's fingers when they're 

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00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:38,680
going through the handshake 
line. 

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00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:43,080
And Ilya thinks to himself, I 
know we were supposed to stand 

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00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:45,760
alone at the top, but we will 
always be there together. 

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00:15:45,760 --> 00:15:48,440
We will keep climbing until no 
one can reach us, but it will 

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00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:51,160
always be together. 
And I think that really 

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00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:54,960
succinctly explains that these 
two guys are the only people 

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00:15:54,960 --> 00:15:57,400
that understand the position 
that they're in on a deeper 

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00:15:57,400 --> 00:15:59,440
level. 
Both of them are competitors and

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00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:01,960
professional athletes. 
And up until the point in which 

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00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:04,840
they meet, they were the best 
player on every single team they

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00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:06,920
had ever been on or played 
against. 

295
00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:10,040
No one was a real challenge. 
They had always been the best 

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00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:12,760
without question. 
But once the international stage

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00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:15,640
presents them with a reason to 
actually compete against one 

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00:16:15,640 --> 00:16:19,800
another, they're both faced with
the reality that someone out 

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00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:22,520
there in their sport could be 
better than them. 

300
00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:25,880
And that makes them intrigued. 
And curious. 

301
00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:28,400
And they start watching each 
other's interviews. 

302
00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:31,840
It also makes Ilya jealous at 
points. 

303
00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:36,440
And it also makes them both easy
targets for media outlets to 

304
00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:39,000
exploit them. 
Hence the rivalry. 

305
00:16:39,080 --> 00:16:43,320
These guys are generational 
players that people pay money to

306
00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:47,000
go see in person. 
They are very much the face of 

307
00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:50,200
marketing for the league. 
So to have them both end up on 

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00:16:50,200 --> 00:16:54,680
rival teams and be drafted 
number one and two overall is 

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00:16:54,680 --> 00:16:56,680
really a Cinderella story for 
the sport. 

310
00:16:56,680 --> 00:16:59,640
We saw it when Ovechkin and 
Crosby were coming into the 

311
00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:03,400
league. 
And so this ignites a fire in 

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00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:07,280
both of them that fuels a lot of
their interactions, especially 

313
00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:10,440
in the early days. 
But it also fuels a larger 

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00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:13,640
audience of people to constantly
compare them. 

315
00:17:13,640 --> 00:17:16,319
And that would feed into their 
need to be the best. 

316
00:17:16,599 --> 00:17:20,640
It would raise the stakes and 
also raise the stakes of their 

317
00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:25,520
hookups and sexual encounters 
because over time, it's going to

318
00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:29,520
create this deep respect for one
another as well. 

319
00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:33,520
And they can't convince the 
world outside of, you know, the 

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00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:37,360
hotel that they're in to 
understand that nobody but them 

321
00:17:37,360 --> 00:17:40,120
can understand that. 
I think for the two of them, 

322
00:17:40,120 --> 00:17:43,920
it's also fun for them to 
actually have someone to compare

323
00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:46,920
themselves to and compete 
against because it would make 

324
00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:49,840
them both have to work extra 
hard to beat the other one. 

325
00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:54,040
And it would make it possible 
for them to lose something that 

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00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:56,920
they weren't really used to. 
So it again ignites that 

327
00:17:56,920 --> 00:18:00,120
competitive nature that they 
both inherently have and that 

328
00:18:00,120 --> 00:18:03,680
deep drive to be the best brings
out the best in each other. 

329
00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:06,880
And that is something that gets 
mirrored in their relationship 

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00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:10,280
dynamic too. 
In regards to how hockey is a 

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00:18:10,280 --> 00:18:13,080
negative thing within their 
relationship, I think that the 

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00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:17,040
culture of the sport is deeply 
ingrained in both of them. 

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00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:20,840
But mostly Shane, and a lot of 
his fear and the way he thinks 

334
00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:26,720
and his reactions to situations 
stem from what the culture 

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00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:31,160
expects and celebrates versus 
shuns and rejects. 

336
00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:34,200
And Shane understands that very 
deeply. 

337
00:18:34,360 --> 00:18:37,800
The thing he wants, which is to 
be with Ilya, would be shunned 

338
00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:41,600
and rejected. 
And so that obstacle combined 

339
00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:44,760
with Shane's fear of straying 
outside the norm and losing 

340
00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:47,640
control, it causes a lot of 
problems. 

341
00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:52,600
And in a relationship like Scott
and Kipp's, Scott could hide it 

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00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:55,760
if he needed to and 
compartmentalize that part of 

343
00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:58,880
his life in a way that Shane and
Ilya cannot because they are 

344
00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:02,320
playing against each other on 
rival teams, and they're 

345
00:19:02,320 --> 00:19:06,200
captains of those teams, their 
faces of franchises. 

346
00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:10,440
So they're facing a much higher 
set of expectations and higher 

347
00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:12,920
stakes. 
They also have more eyeballs on 

348
00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:14,920
them. 
And their careers would be 

349
00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:18,160
called into question if they 
were to be discovered because it

350
00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:21,000
could be insinuated that their 
relationship affected their 

351
00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:24,360
play. 
And the fans of these teams 

352
00:19:24,360 --> 00:19:29,560
would take that very personally.
So the hockey is pivotal and it 

353
00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:34,040
plays a very big role in how 
their relationship starts, how 

354
00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:38,520
they struggle within it, how 
they manage expectations 

355
00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:43,320
throughout it, how they decide 
as a united front to move 

356
00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:48,680
forward publicly and until they 
retire, hockey will always, 

357
00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:51,720
always have a direct impact on 
their relationship. 

358
00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:57,920
So it's a very complicated, deep
seated, nuanced thing. 

359
00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:02,480
Hockey culture and how it. 
Effects the parameters around 

360
00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:06,640
their specific relationship. 
So I find that fascinating to 

361
00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:11,440
watch because a lot of it again 
on screen for people who don't 

362
00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:14,880
understand the culture is not 
being spelled out very clearly. 

363
00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:19,000
But as someone who understands 
it, it feels fairly realistic 

364
00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:21,960
that their fears would be so 
high stakes. 

365
00:20:22,120 --> 00:20:25,640
This question is sort of a. 
Follow up to the previous one, 

366
00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:29,080
which is as a hockey person, how
much does hockey play into the 

367
00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:31,960
story? 
Does does it add value? 

368
00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:35,960
So building on what I said 
before, hockey isn't just the 

369
00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:39,560
backdrop of this story, but it's
also the environment that Shane 

370
00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:42,440
and Ilya operate in and exist 
within. 

371
00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:46,280
So it's important to think about
what that environment actually 

372
00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:50,400
would do to a person. 
And also I think it's important 

373
00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:54,400
to remember the years in which 
they are playing the sport 

374
00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:57,600
because it's already different 
now than it was before in some 

375
00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:01,040
minor ways. 
And we're looking at this show 

376
00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:07,440
in a 20252026 mentality. 
So important to rewind and 

377
00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:10,760
remember what year it is and how
old they are in that phase of 

378
00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:12,200
their life and all those 
details. 

379
00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:16,880
So hockey culture, especially at
the elite level, is 

380
00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:20,400
hypermasculine. 
It's very insular and 

381
00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:25,240
emotionally restrictive in a way
that we can see heightens every 

382
00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:28,120
interaction between Shane and 
Ilya because they don't allow 

383
00:21:28,120 --> 00:21:30,520
themselves to feel their 
emotions and. 

384
00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:35,560
Actively try to repress them. 
And the sport inherently rewards

385
00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:39,880
dominance and control while 
encouraging players to 

386
00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:43,640
compartmentalize their emotions 
and vulnerability and then 

387
00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:47,280
redirect them into anger or 
motivation in order to perform 

388
00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:49,600
better. 
And that conditioning. 

389
00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:54,000
Shapes Shane and Ilya and how 
they understand themselves, how 

390
00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:56,160
they communicate and ultimately 
how they love. 

391
00:21:56,560 --> 00:22:00,560
And I think the best way to 
describe it is that hockey isn't

392
00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:03,520
the obstacle. 
They are working. 

393
00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:06,240
Around in this show, it's 
actually what creates the 

394
00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:09,840
obstacle to begin with, so it 
doesn't complicate their 

395
00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:12,720
relationship, it creates the 
complication. 

396
00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:17,120
As I mentioned before, hockey 
becomes your entire world as you

397
00:22:17,120 --> 00:22:18,720
move up the ladder within the 
sport. 

398
00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:21,800
For players like Shane and Ilya,
their childhoods would have 

399
00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:23,680
been. 
Spent in the same rings, with 

400
00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:27,480
the same people, under the 
authority of different coaches, 

401
00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:31,320
all of whom would influence 
their worldview just as much as 

402
00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:33,320
their parents do, especially 
when they're younger. 

403
00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:38,200
And that world narrows even 
further as their careers get 

404
00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:40,520
bigger. 
So they would essentially. 

405
00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:43,360
Travel from rink to gym, plane 
to hotel. 

406
00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:47,040
Repeat pregame rituals, repeat 
postgame rituals. 

407
00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:50,360
They'd eat the same meals, 
recover the same way, day in, 

408
00:22:50,360 --> 00:22:54,360
day out, for months at a time. 
And that repetition requires a 

409
00:22:54,360 --> 00:22:56,360
lot of mental. 
Toughness and discipline. 

410
00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:01,640
But doing the same thing like 
that for that long reinforces A 

411
00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:04,880
mindset. 
And so if the mindset within the

412
00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:08,680
sport is that emotions are 
something to suppress or manage 

413
00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:13,640
and not something to explore. 
Openly because it might make you

414
00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:16,720
misstep or underperform. 
You don't do that. 

415
00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:19,480
And so that's the pressure 
cooker environment they're both 

416
00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:22,280
existing within. 
Shane and Ilya also enter the 

417
00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:26,240
league at the same time. 
They're drafted #1 and #2 

418
00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:30,840
overall by rival franchises, 
both with very deep histories, 

419
00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:35,160
enormous expectations. 
And like I said earlier, they 

420
00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:38,840
are uniquely positioned as 
mirrors of one another. 

421
00:23:39,120 --> 00:23:41,240
They're the only. 
Two people who truly understand 

422
00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:44,440
the pressure that the other is 
under, and that's where one of 

423
00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:45,880
the core themes of the story 
comes. 

424
00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:50,240
Comes in, which is that they are
yin and Yang, or two sides of 

425
00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:53,720
the same coin. 
That duality shows up not just 

426
00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:56,240
emotionally, but also in how 
they play. 

427
00:23:56,240 --> 00:24:00,160
So Shane is defined by 
discipline, obsession, 

428
00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:02,800
preparation. 
He's a student of hockey in 

429
00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:04,880
every sense. 
We see him reading hockey books 

430
00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:08,640
in his free time. 
He's meticulous and he's driven 

431
00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:13,600
by a desire to be the best. 
Ilya, in contrast to that, is 

432
00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:16,640
more of a natural talent. 
So he loves hockey, but he 

433
00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:19,040
doesn't live and breathe it in 
the way that Shane does. 

434
00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:23,280
He doesn't have to work in the 
same capacity to be that great. 

435
00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:27,760
And his relationship to the 
sport is more shaped by his 

436
00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:30,920
childhood because for Ilya, 
hockey was an escape. 

437
00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:34,360
After his mother died, she had 
loved watching him play when he 

438
00:24:34,360 --> 00:24:39,440
was young, but after her death, 
his grief at 12 years old pushed

439
00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:42,920
him deeper into the game while 
he sought to get away from his 

440
00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:45,520
home life and try and grapple 
with his emotions. 

441
00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:50,120
And as I touched on before, 
those different origins create 2

442
00:24:50,120 --> 00:24:54,360
elite players whose motivations 
are fundamentally different, but

443
00:24:54,360 --> 00:24:57,760
they're also complementary. 
Also, like I mentioned before, 

444
00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:02,080
their rivalry only exists and 
works because neither of them 

445
00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:06,000
can ever fully outdo the other. 
For every single stat that 

446
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:09,560
favors one of them, you could 
pull another stat that favors 

447
00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:13,880
the other one, and that balance 
between the two sustains the 

448
00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:17,880
rivalry and keeps them bound to 
each other at the top of the 

449
00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:19,960
sport. 
And they push each other not 

450
00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:23,440
just because of ego, but because
they genuinely enjoy competing 

451
00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:26,520
against someone who can meet 
them at their level. 

452
00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:30,840
And over time, we see that 
competition evolve into a very 

453
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:35,360
deep respect and admiration of 
one another, even if the league 

454
00:25:35,360 --> 00:25:37,120
continues to frame it 
differently. 

455
00:25:37,360 --> 00:25:40,720
When their feelings enter into 
the equation, that 

456
00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:45,280
competitiveness shifts slightly.
And as we see over time, their 

457
00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:49,200
emotions begin to bleed into 
their play in subtle ways, more 

458
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:51,760
like a heightened awareness of 
each other on the ice. 

459
00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:55,480
There's flashes of jealousy, but
then also deep pride when each 

460
00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:59,640
of them watches the other win 
the cup, or in smaller moments 

461
00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:02,040
when they're more affected by 
the other one than they want to 

462
00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:05,400
admit, like at the face off dot.
And there are more fleshed out 

463
00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:08,520
examples of this in the book 
than there are in the show, but 

464
00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:12,320
it is hinted at in a lot of the 
montages I talked earlier about 

465
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:15,280
how they challenge each other in
ways that nobody else can. 

466
00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:19,480
And this is where that becomes 
slightly decent stabilizing, 

467
00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:23,800
because Shane's earlier jealousy
of Ilya when he is young does 

468
00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:26,520
turn into an attraction and then
an admiration. 

469
00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:28,800
Ilya is. 
Both a challenge. 

470
00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:32,760
And a mirror to Shane, because 
Ilya's existence and Shane's 

471
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:36,600
attraction to him force Shane to
confront parts of himself that 

472
00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:39,240
he has buried beneath his 
achievements and his public 

473
00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:41,640
persona. 
One of the most telling changes 

474
00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:45,720
the show makes underscores this 
quite well, which is that 

475
00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:49,720
Shane's injury is rewritten so 
that it's directly caused by his

476
00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:52,560
attention being on Ilya as he 
carries the puck through the 

477
00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:54,680
neutral zone. 
And then he gets hit in an open 

478
00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:57,800
ice hit, something that is 
completely against his nature as

479
00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:00,480
a player and really against the 
nature of any hockey player. 

480
00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:03,720
And as I mentioned before, Shane
doesn't make careless mistakes. 

481
00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:08,680
So that moment makes the subtext
explicit, which is that Shane's 

482
00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:13,480
connection to Ilya is strong 
enough to override years of his 

483
00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:16,640
discipline and and his instinct.
Which brings me back to 

484
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:19,200
something I said earlier, which 
is that hockey isn't the 

485
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:22,960
obstacle they're trying to work 
around, it's what creates the 

486
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:27,560
obstacle to begin with. 
Because they know how the 

487
00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:30,520
culture feels and they are on 
the inside of it. 

488
00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:31,840
They. 
Both. 

489
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:36,000
Make educated assumptions as to 
what the blowback would be if 

490
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:39,120
they were to be discovered. 
They aren't anonymous players. 

491
00:27:39,120 --> 00:27:43,080
They're rivals, franchise faces 
and money makers in the league's

492
00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:46,120
marketing strategy, and their 
identities are tied to 

493
00:27:46,120 --> 00:27:52,320
masculinity, to national and 
city pride, to the mythology 

494
00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:55,200
that the league depends upon to 
draw in its fans. 

495
00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:59,440
So if the truth came out, it 
wouldn't just change how fans 

496
00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:01,960
see them. 
Their careers would be re 

497
00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:06,080
examined and fans would be 
likely outraged and feel like 

498
00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:09,080
they were lied to. 
And that scrutiny would be 

499
00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:12,280
compounded by the very real 
levels of homophobia within the 

500
00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:16,680
sport from the top down. 
So the secrecy, the emotional 

501
00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:21,200
restraint, the refusal to name 
what they are for years and 

502
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:25,640
years, all of those choices 
mirror what hockey would have 

503
00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:29,280
drilled into them, which is keep
your head down, don't rock the 

504
00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:31,080
boat. 
Everything you do is for the 

505
00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:34,800
better of the team. 
And that's especially clear in 

506
00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:39,400
Shane, whose motivations to keep
this hidden are, on the one 

507
00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:43,520
hand, him not fully accepting 
that he is gay for much of the 

508
00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:46,360
earlier part of their 
relationship, but also because 

509
00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:49,280
he believes that everything 
should be framed around 

510
00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:52,600
protecting the team, the league 
and the image that he's been 

511
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:55,600
taught to uphold. 
Ilya's fear is more personal. 

512
00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:59,320
It's tied to his Russian 
nationality and the risks that 

513
00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:02,840
come with him potentially being 
forced out of the sport and 

514
00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:06,280
having to return to a country 
that would not be kind to him. 

515
00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:09,560
And it's also tied to his 
childhood trauma, and that makes

516
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:12,640
emotional vulnerability feel 
extremely dangerous to him. 

517
00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:16,240
Ultimately, as I said before, 
hockey is not just the backdrop 

518
00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:18,720
of this story. 
It's a really big part of their 

519
00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:21,400
relationship because it dictates
the pace of it. 

520
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:24,040
Given that they only hook up and
see each other when they play 

521
00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:28,360
one another or in the offseason.
Their love is expressed in large

522
00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:31,400
part through their joint 
competitiveness as professional 

523
00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:35,760
athletes, and because that 
personality trait is what allows

524
00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:39,400
them to reach the pinnacle of 
their sport, it makes total 

525
00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:42,560
sense that it would be a huge 
element in their relationship 

526
00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:46,320
dynamic as well. 
The hockey optics are the reason

527
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:50,000
why there is tension in this 
story, and it gives the story 

528
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:53,320
the high stakes it needs for the
audience to feel that yearning 

529
00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:56,400
and know that their love is not.
Just forbidden. 

530
00:29:56,440 --> 00:30:01,040
But it's also incompatible with 
the very culture and system that

531
00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:04,800
made them who they are and that 
they live and breathe within 

532
00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:07,880
every single day. 
And that's a broader theme that 

533
00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:10,240
a lot of people can closely 
identify with. 

534
00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:13,600
This question is, I'm curious, 
your thoughts on Ilya's 

535
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:17,440
hesitance to fully grab Shane 
when he's kissing and why that 

536
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:19,440
is? 
I feel like there are so many 

537
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:22,760
moments like the All Star night 
one kissing up the stairway in 

538
00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:26,040
episode 4 and even their deep 
first kiss at the cottage in 

539
00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:30,440
episode 6 where I think Ilya is 
hesitant to fully embrace Shane 

540
00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:32,800
because he doesn't think Shane 
is fully his. 

541
00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:36,400
But I don't know because he does
it in almost every episode. 

542
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:39,520
So curious to know if you think 
it's something. 

543
00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:43,320
So I think this is largely a 
Connor story physicality thing 

544
00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:46,960
and probably not an entirely 
conscious decision by the 

545
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:48,880
intimacy coordinator and the 
director. 

546
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:51,840
But I could also be very wrong. 
I do think that there is some 

547
00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:55,160
serious merit in the notion that
Ilya does not fully hold on to 

548
00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:59,920
Shane until he is his to hold. 
But he also grabs Shane's face a

549
00:30:59,920 --> 00:31:03,640
lot to tilt his head up or to 
force eye contact or to kiss 

550
00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:06,680
him, and he does that quite 
often and has no hesitations in 

551
00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:08,760
taking that liberty and grabbing
him there. 

552
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:12,200
We also do see Ilya fully 
embrace Shane in episode 5 in 

553
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:14,560
the All Star Hotel scene, so he 
is capable. 

554
00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:18,160
But you're correct that 
throughout the series Ilya does 

555
00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:21,520
keep a looser grip on Shane at 
times, and he does that 

556
00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:24,120
consistently. 
So it's a mannerism that they 

557
00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:27,240
maintained with continuity over 
the course of multiple years. 

558
00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:30,840
Whether it's Connor himself who 
created that mannerism for Ilya 

559
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:34,360
and kept it consistent across 
the storyline, or something they

560
00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:37,400
worked on with Jacob and the 
intimacy coordinator, I'm not 

561
00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:39,320
sure. 
But it was something I noticed 

562
00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:41,120
too. 
So I think there has to be a 

563
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:44,640
reason behind it, and your 
reasoning is actually a 

564
00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:47,920
beautiful metaphor as to why 
that would be applicable. 

565
00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:51,800
This question is my friends and 
I were discussing the food 

566
00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:55,520
relationship the characters have
in the show slash book. 

567
00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:57,680
For example, they're hockey 
players. 

568
00:31:57,680 --> 00:31:59,880
Could they not really down ate 
burgers? 

569
00:31:59,920 --> 00:32:04,120
Also, I think macro biotics 
allows Shane to eat meat. 

570
00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:07,200
I'd be curious to hear your 
thoughts if you have an upcoming

571
00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:11,040
video or an opinion about it. 
So I'm taking this question kind

572
00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:14,080
of running with it to talk about
the food relationship, 

573
00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:17,720
specifically Shane's. 
And this is a topic that of 

574
00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:20,840
course is. 
It's very nuanced, it has 

575
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:25,960
multiple angles that you can 
look at it from, and this is 

576
00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:30,480
just my observation and my 
interpretation of some of these 

577
00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:33,520
topics that are mentioned a lot 
in the long game. 

578
00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:36,640
So first question, which is 
could they have eaten the 8 

579
00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:38,200
burgers? 
Yes, absolutely. 

580
00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:40,000
They could have easily eaten 8 
burgers. 

581
00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:43,320
But I think that the 
relationships with food for 

582
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:46,720
Shane and Ilya are very much 
narrative devices to kind of 

583
00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:48,200
further convey their 
personalities. 

584
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:51,880
So Ilia eats what he wants, he 
eats quickly, he eats slightly 

585
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:54,320
messy and he doesn't restrict 
himself. 

586
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:58,240
Whereas Shane eats very specific
foods aimed for performance and 

587
00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:00,600
longevity. 
He eats very neatly, he often 

588
00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:04,880
covers his mouth, and he further
expands upon his dieting in the 

589
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:08,360
long game. 
He also has comfort drinks like 

590
00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:10,480
ginger ale. 
I think it's important to keep 

591
00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:14,240
in mind as well that they are 
professional athletes on teams 

592
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:17,760
with trainers and nutritionists 
and people whose entire job it 

593
00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:19,960
is to make sure they are 
performing at their best every 

594
00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:22,200
day. 
So those types of conversations 

595
00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:24,280
are happening daily within their
teams. 

596
00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:27,520
It is very easy for them to 
access nutritionists. 

597
00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:31,000
They have team chefs, they have 
their meals at the rink and on 

598
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:33,840
the road provided for them a 
vast majority of the time. 

599
00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:37,120
And for Shane, who loves control
in all areas of his life because

600
00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:40,080
it makes him feel safe, food is 
naturally an area where he would

601
00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:43,560
want to exhibit that control. 
And it makes total sense then, 

602
00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:46,000
that when other areas of his 
life feel like they are 

603
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:48,440
spiraling out of control, he 
would tighten his grip. 

604
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:52,280
On the easiest thing he can 
control, which is food for Ilya,

605
00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:55,280
I think that the act of eating 
has never been something 

606
00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:58,600
communal for him, where we see 
Shane often eating with other 

607
00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:02,480
people like Hayden and his 
family or his parents or Rose. 

608
00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:05,320
The only time we see him eating 
on screen with his family is 

609
00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:07,840
during the funeral scene and he 
is very uptight and 

610
00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:11,400
uncomfortable, which is in 
direct contrast to when he eats 

611
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:14,080
with Shane. 
When he shares the tuna melt 

612
00:34:14,199 --> 00:34:16,320
with Shane in episode 4. 
He eats the. 

613
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:18,920
Burgers with Shane at the 
cottage in the finale, and then 

614
00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:20,480
he has dinner with Shane's 
parents. 

615
00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:24,080
So I don't think the ritual of 
it has ever had any real 

616
00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:27,760
significance to him until he has
a partner and a family to eat 

617
00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:30,560
with. 
I also think that Ilya can tell 

618
00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:33,600
that Shane's focus on food is 
always coming from there being 

619
00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:35,679
an imbalance in another area of 
his life. 

620
00:34:35,679 --> 00:34:38,760
So Ilya would want Shane to work
through those issues and 

621
00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:41,520
regulate himself rather than 
restrict himself in the way that

622
00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:44,159
he is. 
So he encourages that in the 

623
00:34:44,159 --> 00:34:47,760
long game, but as his own 
depression worsens, he often 

624
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:51,960
uses the food conversation as a 
way to pick a fight or express 

625
00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:55,040
his frustration with Shane about
other things because it's the 

626
00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:58,000
easiest thing to poke at and get
a reaction out of Shane with. 

627
00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:00,520
And we see that in the Christmas
scene In the long game 

628
00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:03,920
specifically, the macro biotic 
diet is interesting because this

629
00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:07,960
is a show only addition to the 
story, and macro biotic diets 

630
00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:11,080
are largely based on Zen 
Buddhist principles. 

631
00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:13,640
And I've already pointed out, 
and I think other people 

632
00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:17,120
probably at this point have too 
pointed out the concept of Shane

633
00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:20,000
and Ilya being like a Yang in 
the show. 

634
00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:23,440
And so their food habits are 
just another layer to that. 

635
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:27,360
They have black and white 
outfits on in the beginning of 

636
00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:30,160
the series, in episode 1 with 
the water bottle scene, I 

637
00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:33,640
noticed very early on that their
stick tape is black and white. 

638
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:36,120
So on the face offs, we can see 
the yin and Yang. 

639
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:40,360
So this fits very neatly into 
this story and is another way 

640
00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:43,680
that they're represented as 
opposite but independent forces 

641
00:35:43,720 --> 00:35:46,920
that create a greater whole once
they're in harmony with one 

642
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:49,240
another, which is very much what
yin and Yang is about. 

643
00:35:49,240 --> 00:35:52,640
Shane also tells Rose in The 
Long Game that he thinks he 

644
00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:56,720
might be drawn to exhibiting 
discipline and how it makes him 

645
00:35:56,720 --> 00:36:00,160
feel better mentally more so 
than eating food that makes him 

646
00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:03,360
feel better physically. 
And he says I like to practice 

647
00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:05,880
discipline and self-control and 
be rewarded for it. 

648
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:08,600
That's all. 
To me, that can be broken down 

649
00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:11,480
even further given Shane's 
personality and it can be 

650
00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:14,440
interpreted as him needing 
routines and structure to feel 

651
00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:17,240
safe and regulated, which is 
something we already know he 

652
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:19,400
needs. 
And he functions best when he 

653
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:23,440
has consistency in structure. 
So the reward aspect is more of 

654
00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:27,920
a way to have measurable data 
and progress, but also praise 

655
00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:30,760
when it comes to Shane and 
Ilya's sexual relationship. 

656
00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:33,920
But as far as food is concerned,
he's trying to use food to 

657
00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:37,000
improve his performance on the 
ice and in the long game. 

658
00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:40,120
He's getting older, he's 
entering into the age bracket 

659
00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:42,400
where players start to feel 
their age in hockey. 

660
00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:45,040
And he wants to play for a long 
time and is trying to control 

661
00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:47,560
how long his career will be in 
any way he can. 

662
00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:51,200
Because if a person's career is 
unpredictable by nature, Shane 

663
00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:54,240
wants to control as much of it 
as he can, and his body and his 

664
00:36:54,240 --> 00:36:57,000
training and his diet are all 
controllable factors. 

665
00:36:57,000 --> 00:37:00,040
After Shane and Ilya are 
discovered, Shane actually 

666
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:03,680
spirals and tells Ilya he ate a 
Snickers bar, and Ilya Facetimes

667
00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:06,280
him right away because he knows 
that something is deeply wrong 

668
00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:08,640
for Shane to do that and also to
admit it to Ilya. 

669
00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:12,160
For Shane, the candy bar would 
be like triage because he's so 

670
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:15,560
dysregulated and he needs to 
reach for something that he has 

671
00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:17,760
coded as bad because he feels 
bad. 

672
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:21,840
And this scene also reinforces 
that Shane is not someone who 

673
00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:25,760
typically deviates from a plan. 
He is dealing with extreme 

674
00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:28,760
internal pressure, and that 
distress is what makes him lose 

675
00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:31,040
control. 
And we know that losing control 

676
00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:33,800
is his deepest fear. 
Ilya tells him in that scene 

677
00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:36,560
that he can eat whatever he 
wants because it's his life and 

678
00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:38,760
it's not the leagues or his 
teams. 

679
00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:44,120
So it clues the reader and the 
viewer into Shane's motivations 

680
00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:47,080
for the dieting being largely 
set around his career first. 

681
00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:50,520
But by the end of the book says 
he's done fighting the future 

682
00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:53,080
and trying to be perfect. 
He'd been an incredible hockey 

683
00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:55,360
player his whole life while 
occasionally eating a 

684
00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:57,440
cheeseburger, and he could 
continue to do that. 

685
00:37:57,440 --> 00:38:00,680
So again, once his personal life
falls into a place where he 

686
00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:03,640
feels he has relative control 
and happiness within it, he 

687
00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:07,200
loosens up on the dieting. 
So it'll be interesting to see 

688
00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:11,120
if Jacob Tierney leans into 
that, and if he does lean into 

689
00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:13,880
that, how he approaches that 
narrative, because it's 

690
00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:17,400
definitely a sensitive topic and
one that I have no doubt he will

691
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:19,040
handle with care if he. 
She chooses to. 

692
00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:21,600
Cover it. 
This question is, I'm not sure 

693
00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:24,160
if you've talked about the 
differences between Svetlana in 

694
00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:25,640
the book. 
Versus the show. 

695
00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:28,080
But I'd love to hear your 
insights into the importance of 

696
00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:31,280
Ilya, having her in his life. 
So I think I've touched on this 

697
00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:35,720
in other videos, maybe little 
snippets here and there, but I 

698
00:38:35,720 --> 00:38:39,000
think the changes to her 
character are wonderful and make

699
00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:43,840
a lot of sense because she is a 
window into Ilya in many scenes 

700
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:46,880
in season 1 and can continue to 
be that. 

701
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:51,320
In season 2 and making her a 
childhood friend made it 

702
00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:55,080
possible for us to see how Ilia 
behaves with people that he 

703
00:38:55,080 --> 00:38:58,640
trusts and loves, which we can 
then contrast with the behavior 

704
00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:02,920
he exhibits with Shane and 
easily mark that behavior as him

705
00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:06,280
masking. 
And then slowly he begins to act

706
00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:09,600
more so like he does with 
Svetlana once Shane makes him 

707
00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:13,080
feel safe enough to do so. 
Her being his closest friend and

708
00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:17,160
confidante also makes Svetlana a
big part in Ilya confronting his

709
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:20,360
own feelings about Shane ahead 
of the Russian monologue scene. 

710
00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:23,600
And narratively it mirrors how 
Rose is used in the plot and 

711
00:39:23,720 --> 00:39:27,120
kind of rounds out that female 
character arc that all of these 

712
00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:30,280
women have in aiding their men 
so beautifully. 

713
00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:33,600
But the addition of the funeral 
scene in particular, where her 

714
00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:38,320
role within, and it gives us so 
much great context, is really, I

715
00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:42,800
think, pivotal in understanding 
what her real purpose is in the 

716
00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:45,920
show version. 
And it comes ahead of Ilya's 

717
00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:48,760
phone call with Shane. 
And we don't get that context in

718
00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:50,560
the book. 
And knowing that she was so 

719
00:39:50,560 --> 00:39:54,200
pivotal in him having the 
bravery to call Shane and then 

720
00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:57,400
incite him feeling brave enough 
to admit that he's in love with 

721
00:39:57,400 --> 00:39:58,720
him. 
Even though it's in Russian, 

722
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:02,160
it's nice to know that in the 
show version, Svetlana is 

723
00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:04,080
directly linked to that 
behavior. 

724
00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:07,280
That Lana also knows Ilia so 
well that she can often voice 

725
00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:10,320
things that we as viewers are 
observing, like her pointing out

726
00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:13,440
how bad Ilia is at hiding his 
messages with Jane. 

727
00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:16,960
I also think for season 2, now 
that we know just how close that

728
00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:20,520
Lana and Ilia are and that they 
love one another so deeply and 

729
00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:22,360
care. 
For each other as friends. 

730
00:40:22,720 --> 00:40:25,760
It will make Ilya's depression 
storyline and the way he pulls 

731
00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:28,960
away from everyone in his life 
that much more powerful because 

732
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:33,480
she is another person that we 
can see it affect directly other

733
00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:36,440
than just Shane. 
If he is pulling away from the 

734
00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:39,880
person closest to him outside of
Shane, then it makes the 

735
00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:43,080
severity of his depression 
exceedingly clear without 

736
00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:45,880
exposition. 
Then there's the added layer of 

737
00:40:46,240 --> 00:40:49,320
Svetlana knowing him since he 
was a child, which implies that 

738
00:40:49,320 --> 00:40:51,920
she would have known him before 
his mother died. 

739
00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:55,640
Theoretically and would have 
likely known his mother. 

740
00:40:55,640 --> 00:41:00,000
And so I think that that's 
really important as he again in 

741
00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:02,920
season 2 is going to be dealing 
with a lot of memories of his 

742
00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:06,200
mom and trauma about her 
passing. 

743
00:41:06,600 --> 00:41:11,320
That if they include more scenes
where Svetlana is included in 

744
00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:13,880
the storyline. 
Even if he's. 

745
00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:17,600
Talking to his therapist and he 
mentions that she was around 

746
00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:22,360
when he was a kid just paints a 
much more vivid picture of Ilya,

747
00:41:22,640 --> 00:41:27,400
and she's used as a narrative 
device to convey more about him 

748
00:41:27,640 --> 00:41:30,000
and more about that time in his 
life. 

749
00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:34,840
And her being able to love him 
in the way that she has as a 

750
00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:39,360
friend is really beautiful 
because Ilya's character has 

751
00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:43,520
always resolved himself as being
unlovable or difficult to love 

752
00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:46,640
or not worthy of love. 
And so placing someone like her 

753
00:41:46,640 --> 00:41:50,440
in his life is a really nice 
thing for the character himself.

754
00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:54,240
And I think that it would be 
really rewarding if we have 

755
00:41:54,240 --> 00:41:57,960
scenes where she gets to meet 
Shane earlier on, because in the

756
00:41:57,960 --> 00:42:00,720
book, she only meets him right 
before they get married, and 

757
00:42:00,720 --> 00:42:04,080
it's been years and she doesn't 
know about their relationship 

758
00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:09,480
until Ilya tells her. 
And he's been in Ottawa for a 

759
00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:12,080
couple of years at that point. 
So hopefully they kind of 

760
00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:14,240
rearranged that. 
I think they owe it to the 

761
00:42:14,240 --> 00:42:19,560
character now since they made so
many changes to her in Season 1 

762
00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:24,080
that they give her a lot more 
material in Season 2 and utilize

763
00:42:24,080 --> 00:42:27,320
her in really smart ways that I 
think Jacob has already kind of 

764
00:42:27,320 --> 00:42:30,720
teed up really beautifully. 
This question is what do you 

765
00:42:30,720 --> 00:42:34,560
think about the addition of Ilya
having a niece that is not in 

766
00:42:34,560 --> 00:42:36,480
the book? 
I personally think this is a 

767
00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:40,400
great way to still keep Ilya 
connected to Russia and also the

768
00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:44,640
show can use her and Svetlana 
since the show version of her is

769
00:42:45,080 --> 00:42:48,640
still tied to Russia since her 
father is here to give us 

770
00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:52,480
glimpses into that culture and 
to better inform Ilya's behavior

771
00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:56,160
and how he conducts himself by 
adding that context. 

772
00:42:56,720 --> 00:42:59,680
And I think the show including 
the line about him creating a 

773
00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:03,360
trust for her that she can 
access at 18 is also a way to 

774
00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:06,880
show the viewer the type of 
person Ilya is and how he is 

775
00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:11,080
good and kind and can see beyond
the hatred of his brother to 

776
00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:14,320
still have love for his family 
in his heart. 

777
00:43:14,760 --> 00:43:18,880
And they can also use the niece 
as a way to keep Alexi in the 

778
00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:21,840
storyline since we don't see him
in the long game. 

779
00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:25,640
It could play into memories or 
something that Ilya experiences 

780
00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:29,480
while in therapy, or maybe 
therapy helps him to reconnect 

781
00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:32,960
with him or make peace with him 
more formally. 

782
00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:38,360
So I do think that it's a way to
kind of round out his life a 

783
00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:43,000
little bit more, make his 
storyline a little richer in 

784
00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:46,160
some small way. 
I think having her be there and 

785
00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:49,800
then him creating a trust 
despite his relationship with 

786
00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:54,520
Alexi is again a way to 
reinforce how good and kind 

787
00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:59,920
Ilyas heart is and that he is so
self sacrificing and he will do 

788
00:43:59,920 --> 00:44:03,760
the right thing by people, 
especially people who are 

789
00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:06,440
related to him. 
And his niece wouldn't have done

790
00:44:06,440 --> 00:44:09,520
anything wrong. 
So him taking care of her in 

791
00:44:09,520 --> 00:44:13,520
that way again is a really great
way to reinforce who he is as a 

792
00:44:13,520 --> 00:44:16,840
person without it being spelled 
out so literally. 

793
00:44:17,040 --> 00:44:20,800
So I like that change. 
I think that they could do a lot

794
00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:23,080
with it or they could do nothing
at all with it, and it really 

795
00:44:23,080 --> 00:44:25,400
was impactful to have her there 
in Season 1. 

796
00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:29,440
I liked this question and it was
why doesn't Shane ever wear his 

797
00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:32,760
Reeboks? 
So this is a great way for us to

798
00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:37,120
see how Shane's persona is 
unaligned with who Shane is as a

799
00:44:37,120 --> 00:44:40,160
person. 
And this is all added for the 

800
00:44:40,160 --> 00:44:42,080
show. 
And it's a really ingenious 

801
00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:45,240
narrative device that they use 
to make that point very clear. 

802
00:44:45,320 --> 00:44:47,600
In the book. 
We are in Shane's head and know 

803
00:44:47,600 --> 00:44:52,200
how he feels, so we can sort of 
understand how he is internally 

804
00:44:52,200 --> 00:44:55,320
very different than the way he 
is marketed externally within 

805
00:44:55,320 --> 00:44:57,200
the hockey world. 
But the show needed a way to 

806
00:44:57,200 --> 00:45:00,640
take that information and his 
thoughts and feelings and make 

807
00:45:00,640 --> 00:45:02,920
it visually apparent for the 
viewer. 

808
00:45:03,240 --> 00:45:05,800
And so this is a really great 
way to do that. 

809
00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:10,480
All of the commercials and same 
with him always drinking ginger 

810
00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:13,880
ale as his comfort drink but 
then doing a commercial with an 

811
00:45:13,880 --> 00:45:18,000
orange soda brand or being a 
Rolex ambassador when his 

812
00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:22,960
clothing styles and choices of 
clothing are mainly T-shirts and

813
00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:26,480
athletic clothes. 
So him not wearing them I think 

814
00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:31,920
is less so about him rejecting 
the brand deal, more so about 

815
00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:34,360
when it's up to him and it's his
choice. 

816
00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:37,400
Those are not the shoes he's 
reaching for and it's just 

817
00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:42,640
another brand partnership and 
commercial and long term deal 

818
00:45:42,640 --> 00:45:48,040
that he has that is assigned to 
Shane the hockey player and the 

819
00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:52,040
public persona rather than 
something that Shane the person 

820
00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:54,800
feels aligned with. 
And I really think that's 

821
00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:57,000
brilliant. 
Question is, with every choice 

822
00:45:57,000 --> 00:45:59,720
in the show being so 
intentional, what did you think 

823
00:45:59,720 --> 00:46:03,280
of them using classical pieces a
handful of times and especially 

824
00:46:03,280 --> 00:46:05,880
the use of Moonlight Sonata for 
the monologue scene? 

825
00:46:05,880 --> 00:46:08,360
Great question, I really loved 
this one. 

826
00:46:09,040 --> 00:46:12,120
So yes, there's a few times 
where they use classical pieces 

827
00:46:12,120 --> 00:46:14,880
of music. 
Mozart is playing during the 

828
00:46:15,160 --> 00:46:18,600
first commercial scene that 
Shane and Ilya shoot in Toronto 

829
00:46:18,600 --> 00:46:21,280
in episode 1. 
Then the first time we hear the 

830
00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:25,120
Russian composer is in episode 2
when Ilya is in the bedroom with

831
00:46:25,120 --> 00:46:29,080
his father and that song fades 
over the scene of Svetlana 

832
00:46:29,080 --> 00:46:32,760
saving Ilya while he's 
dissociating and walking him to 

833
00:46:32,760 --> 00:46:35,880
the bathroom where Sasha is at. 
So that is by a Russian 

834
00:46:35,880 --> 00:46:38,400
composer. 
Then there's another one during 

835
00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:40,600
the figure scene scene at the 
Olympics. 

836
00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:44,280
There are two songs while Ilya 
is at home, one while he's 

837
00:46:44,280 --> 00:46:47,000
standing in front of the window,
and then another during the 

838
00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:50,160
funeral scene. 
Then we get Moonlight Sonata 

839
00:46:50,160 --> 00:46:51,840
during the Russian monologue 
scene. 

840
00:46:51,960 --> 00:46:54,960
And then we also have classical 
music playing when Shane is at 

841
00:46:54,960 --> 00:46:58,000
his parents cottage recovering 
from his injuries and texting 

842
00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:01,160
Ilya from the sofa. 
That's a Bach song playing in 

843
00:47:01,160 --> 00:47:03,840
the background of the house. 
The song playing during the 

844
00:47:03,840 --> 00:47:06,760
commercial is Mozart's 29th 
Symphony. 

845
00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:10,080
This is a Symphony that Mozart 
wrote when he 18, which I think 

846
00:47:10,080 --> 00:47:12,760
is kind of interesting when you 
consider how young Shane and 

847
00:47:12,760 --> 00:47:16,360
Ilya are in that scene. 
So that's kind of a fun tie, if 

848
00:47:16,360 --> 00:47:19,320
you will. 
The scene when Svetlana comes 

849
00:47:19,320 --> 00:47:23,520
and saves Ilya and brings him 
into the bathroom, that's by the

850
00:47:23,560 --> 00:47:27,520
composer Rachmanov, and it's his
second Piano Concerto. 

851
00:47:27,520 --> 00:47:31,880
I loved how the use of that 
concerto, it fades and gets 

852
00:47:31,880 --> 00:47:36,360
quieter as Ilya's dissociation 
starts to strengthen, and then 

853
00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:39,920
it increases the volume as 
they're walking to the bathroom,

854
00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:42,840
and then the the tone of it 
changes throughout the 

855
00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:44,360
conversation in the bathroom as 
well. 

856
00:47:44,360 --> 00:47:47,160
So it's used really beautifully 
in those scenes. 

857
00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:51,440
The song that plays when Shane's
figure skating friend is 

858
00:47:51,440 --> 00:47:54,720
competing in the Olympics is 
called The Great Gate of Kiev, 

859
00:47:54,760 --> 00:48:02,040
and it's a very grand song. 
It's the finale of the piano 

860
00:48:02,040 --> 00:48:07,280
suite of pictures at an 
exhibition, so a very big song 

861
00:48:07,720 --> 00:48:10,600
meant for a big moment in the 
Olympics for the scenes in 

862
00:48:10,600 --> 00:48:12,720
Russia around Ilya's father's 
death. 

863
00:48:12,720 --> 00:48:17,120
There's an interesting tie to 
the actual songs itself. 

864
00:48:17,120 --> 00:48:21,240
If you if you dig deeper, I did 
talk about the song playing when

865
00:48:21,240 --> 00:48:24,920
Ilya is standing in front of the
window in one of my breakdown 

866
00:48:24,920 --> 00:48:27,840
videos. 
And the song playing during the 

867
00:48:27,840 --> 00:48:31,480
funeral is song that's tied to 
fallen. 

868
00:48:31,480 --> 00:48:35,800
World War Two soldiers and. 
That's interesting when you 

869
00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:38,960
consider that his father has all
these medals and he was 

870
00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:41,640
decorated. 
And so they kind of link the 

871
00:48:41,640 --> 00:48:44,520
music to that visual in that 
scene, which I thought was 

872
00:48:44,520 --> 00:48:47,320
really brilliant. 
The song itself is called or 

873
00:48:47,320 --> 00:48:52,200
it's translated into the cranes,
and it's talking about fallen 

874
00:48:52,200 --> 00:48:56,680
soldiers who are being compared 
to white cranes flying in the 

875
00:48:56,680 --> 00:48:59,240
sky. 
And it's meant to be a metaphor 

876
00:48:59,600 --> 00:49:01,480
for. 
Their souls. 

877
00:49:02,000 --> 00:49:06,040
Leaving the battlefield, The 
Moonlight Sonata use is really 

878
00:49:06,040 --> 00:49:09,720
kind of cool because it's long 
been believed that Mozart wrote 

879
00:49:09,720 --> 00:49:14,680
it for an unrequited love, or 
someone who he was deeply in 

880
00:49:14,680 --> 00:49:17,760
love with but couldn't be with. 
It's also used really 

881
00:49:17,760 --> 00:49:21,720
beautifully here because in the 
book, Shane describes the 

882
00:49:21,720 --> 00:49:26,080
feeling of Ilya's voice washing 
over him, and it very much feels

883
00:49:26,080 --> 00:49:31,040
like it's musical in a sense. 
And so I think that them putting

884
00:49:31,040 --> 00:49:34,920
this piano over it and then 
using the audio in such a clever

885
00:49:34,920 --> 00:49:40,040
way where at the beginning of 
the monologue, Ilya's voice is 

886
00:49:40,040 --> 00:49:43,480
coming through a telephone. 
And then at a certain point in 

887
00:49:43,480 --> 00:49:47,600
the monologue, his voice is 
right there with Shane. 

888
00:49:47,600 --> 00:49:50,320
It's like he's sitting right 
next to him, talking to him. 

889
00:49:50,640 --> 00:49:54,800
There's no more phone line 
static coming through, and his 

890
00:49:54,800 --> 00:49:57,200
voice is clear as day alongside 
with this music. 

891
00:49:57,200 --> 00:49:59,680
So it's a really great way of 
conveying that sentiment from 

892
00:49:59,680 --> 00:50:01,400
the book. 
In the book, Shane also 

893
00:50:01,400 --> 00:50:06,160
describes it as very intimate, 
like they were somehow sharing a

894
00:50:06,160 --> 00:50:09,000
bigger secret now than when they
slept together. 

895
00:50:09,040 --> 00:50:12,840
And so the song kind of adds to 
that level of intimacy as well. 

896
00:50:12,840 --> 00:50:16,440
During the scene where Shane and
Ilya are texting late at night 

897
00:50:16,440 --> 00:50:22,200
in episode 5, the song Prelude 
and fugue #1 by Bach is playing 

898
00:50:22,200 --> 00:50:24,880
in the background. 
So it's implied that in their 

899
00:50:24,880 --> 00:50:29,080
house growing up, maybe Yuna 
would play classical music at 

900
00:50:29,080 --> 00:50:31,480
night, which I think is a 
beautiful detail. 

901
00:50:31,720 --> 00:50:34,160
Although I have seen discourse 
online that it might be a 

902
00:50:34,160 --> 00:50:37,600
different title of Box, a 
different song of Box. 

903
00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:41,240
So clearly a lot of thought went
into the choices and selections 

904
00:50:41,240 --> 00:50:44,120
of these songs and how they were
going to be used in the show. 

905
00:50:44,600 --> 00:50:48,960
And I think the sound mixing of 
the show is really incredible. 

906
00:50:48,960 --> 00:50:52,120
But the people who are. 
Picking the songs for the 

907
00:50:52,120 --> 00:50:57,560
soundtrack did such a masterful 
job of layering in original 

908
00:50:57,560 --> 00:51:01,520
score these classical moments, 
and then obviously the 

909
00:51:01,520 --> 00:51:05,160
soundtrack that we all know and 
love from the montage moments 

910
00:51:05,160 --> 00:51:08,640
and playing in the background in
restaurants. 

911
00:51:08,640 --> 00:51:12,320
And they layer in the music in 
the show so beautifully. 

912
00:51:12,480 --> 00:51:16,680
So I really, really commend them
for how well they've done and 

913
00:51:16,680 --> 00:51:19,760
how intentional it was done. 
So I got multiple versions of 

914
00:51:19,760 --> 00:51:23,760
this next question, which is why
do I think this show changed so 

915
00:51:23,760 --> 00:51:26,840
many of us and completely took 
over our lives in such a short 

916
00:51:26,840 --> 00:51:30,760
time frame? 
And also how I think the timing 

917
00:51:30,760 --> 00:51:35,480
of it might have impacted that. 
And I actually was interviewed 

918
00:51:35,480 --> 00:51:38,440
this very question. 
So I had written down my 

919
00:51:38,440 --> 00:51:42,200
thoughts on it and there are 
many, but again, this is kind of

920
00:51:42,200 --> 00:51:44,600
coming from my personal angle 
so. 

921
00:51:44,920 --> 00:51:47,600
I think this story resonated 
across. 

922
00:51:48,040 --> 00:51:52,640
Genders and sexual orientations 
and generations, and obviously 

923
00:51:52,640 --> 00:51:54,440
it's about love and it's a love 
story. 

924
00:51:54,560 --> 00:51:58,520
It's also a queer story, but at 
its core, it's also about 

925
00:51:58,520 --> 00:52:03,320
pressure and pressure to 
conform, to perform, and to 

926
00:52:03,320 --> 00:52:05,520
present yourself in a very 
specific way. 

927
00:52:05,600 --> 00:52:08,480
And as an athlete myself and 
someone who played hockey, that 

928
00:52:08,480 --> 00:52:12,160
really stood out to me. 
There's a lot to unpack in terms

929
00:52:12,160 --> 00:52:15,640
of how you're expected to show 
up in the spaces within the 

930
00:52:15,640 --> 00:52:19,120
hockey world and what strength 
looks like, what emotions are 

931
00:52:19,120 --> 00:52:21,880
allowed and what aren't. 
But even if you've never played 

932
00:52:21,880 --> 00:52:25,360
hockey, or even a team sport in 
general, I think everyone 

933
00:52:25,680 --> 00:52:29,960
understands on some level the 
pressure that comes with wanting

934
00:52:29,960 --> 00:52:33,280
to be seen, understood, and 
loved for who you actually, and 

935
00:52:33,480 --> 00:52:37,160
not a version of yourself you 
create in order to conform. 

936
00:52:37,160 --> 00:52:40,520
And what the show does so 
effectively is place those 

937
00:52:40,520 --> 00:52:44,160
universal themes inside of this 
hyper masculine world of 

938
00:52:44,160 --> 00:52:47,480
professional hockey that we 
don't often see depicted with 

939
00:52:47,480 --> 00:52:51,000
this level of vulnerability. 
So that contrast is very 

940
00:52:51,000 --> 00:52:53,720
powerful. 
Watching characters struggle 

941
00:52:53,720 --> 00:52:57,920
with identity and emotional 
expression, all while trying to 

942
00:52:57,920 --> 00:53:01,600
belong in an environment that 
traditionally discourages those 

943
00:53:01,600 --> 00:53:04,840
things, makes this story feel 
incredibly human. 

944
00:53:04,840 --> 00:53:08,720
So while I think it resonates 
with men who recognize that 

945
00:53:08,720 --> 00:53:13,400
culture first hand, it also 
speaks to anyone who has felt 

946
00:53:13,400 --> 00:53:18,240
constrained by the expectation 
society places on them, and that

947
00:53:18,240 --> 00:53:22,000
is a universal experience. 
In that way, the show becomes a 

948
00:53:22,080 --> 00:53:26,880
lens for examining how idealized
masculinity shapes behavior, not

949
00:53:26,880 --> 00:53:30,440
just in sports, and it captures 
what it feels like to be on the 

950
00:53:30,440 --> 00:53:32,840
outside looking in with a lot of
empathy. 

951
00:53:33,200 --> 00:53:37,200
It's also connecting a lot of 
people who appreciate well 

952
00:53:37,200 --> 00:53:40,600
developed, complex characters, 
and it's incited a lot of 

953
00:53:40,600 --> 00:53:42,880
discussion about writing and 
storytelling. 

954
00:53:42,920 --> 00:53:46,640
And on my personal pages, 
breaking down scenes in a way 

955
00:53:46,640 --> 00:53:49,680
that highlights the craft has 
been really enjoyable. 

956
00:53:49,680 --> 00:53:52,720
And it's been helping me with 
the construction of my own 

957
00:53:52,720 --> 00:53:56,440
characters while writing my 
first novel with my co-author. 

958
00:53:56,480 --> 00:54:00,440
But on the artistic side, as 
someone who loves book to screen

959
00:54:00,440 --> 00:54:03,640
adaptations and filmmaking as a 
craft, I was really struck by 

960
00:54:03,640 --> 00:54:06,240
how intentionally this show was 
made. 

961
00:54:06,240 --> 00:54:08,120
The attention to detail is 
incredible. 

962
00:54:08,120 --> 00:54:11,160
There are visual and narrative 
callbacks throughout the series 

963
00:54:11,160 --> 00:54:14,240
that reward close viewing, and 
you're meant to notice the 

964
00:54:14,240 --> 00:54:17,320
nuance in the physicality, in 
the framing. 

965
00:54:17,400 --> 00:54:21,120
And a lot of what makes this 
show so gripping is what's being

966
00:54:21,120 --> 00:54:24,360
said without dialogue. 
That feels especially meaningful

967
00:54:24,360 --> 00:54:27,360
in the context of the current 
streaming era, where so many 

968
00:54:27,360 --> 00:54:30,720
shows assume the audience is 
half watching and the characters

969
00:54:30,720 --> 00:54:33,680
are often repeating plot points 
out loud because viewers are 

970
00:54:33,680 --> 00:54:36,640
scrolling on their phones. 
And this show does the opposite.

971
00:54:36,680 --> 00:54:41,160
It asks you to lean in. 
And that kind of storytelling 

972
00:54:41,160 --> 00:54:45,760
encourages conversation and re 
watches and excitement, where on

973
00:54:45,760 --> 00:54:48,720
1/3 or 4th viewing you might 
catch a detail that was hidden 

974
00:54:48,720 --> 00:54:51,760
in plain sight. 
And then it helps to deepen the 

975
00:54:51,760 --> 00:54:54,280
emotional impact of what you've 
just watched. 

976
00:54:54,400 --> 00:54:58,920
And I also think that the slow 
drip weekly episode drops added 

977
00:54:58,920 --> 00:55:00,760
to that community building as 
well. 

978
00:55:00,760 --> 00:55:04,680
So you can really tell how much 
the entire production team cared

979
00:55:04,680 --> 00:55:07,240
about the story that they were 
telling because it shows up 

980
00:55:07,240 --> 00:55:09,600
everywhere. 
It shows up in the set design, 

981
00:55:09,880 --> 00:55:11,760
especially given their budget 
constraints. 

982
00:55:11,760 --> 00:55:15,160
It shows up in the lighting, 
which to me it functions as its 

983
00:55:15,160 --> 00:55:17,480
own character. 
It shows up in the costuming, 

984
00:55:17,480 --> 00:55:20,520
which very subtly tracks 
emotional shifts and power 

985
00:55:20,520 --> 00:55:23,520
dynamics, and also the timeline 
of the story. 

986
00:55:23,520 --> 00:55:27,000
And it's reflectant of the year 
that the scene is taking place 

987
00:55:27,000 --> 00:55:28,560
in. 
You can see that in the sound 

988
00:55:28,560 --> 00:55:30,880
design. 
Little things like how you can 

989
00:55:30,880 --> 00:55:34,480
hear the hum of traffic outside 
whenever Shane and Ilya are in a

990
00:55:34,480 --> 00:55:38,480
hotel room, or you can very 
audibly hear the sound of fabric

991
00:55:38,480 --> 00:55:40,760
brushing against the couch 
during an intimate scene. 

992
00:55:40,760 --> 00:55:43,440
So it feels like we're very much
in crouching on that moment. 

993
00:55:43,880 --> 00:55:47,360
All of those things create an 
intimacy that pulls the viewer 

994
00:55:47,360 --> 00:55:50,560
further into the world that 
Jacob Tierney created. 

995
00:55:50,600 --> 00:55:53,760
And even structurally, moments 
like the extended one shot in 

996
00:55:53,760 --> 00:55:56,840
the finale adds to that intimacy
in a way that feels very 

997
00:55:56,840 --> 00:55:59,440
deliberate and. 
Earned and there are visual 

998
00:55:59,440 --> 00:56:03,640
echoes all over the place. 
Through small movements and 

999
00:56:03,640 --> 00:56:07,520
physicality, words and phrases 
that reappear later and feel 

1000
00:56:07,520 --> 00:56:10,480
familiar without ever being 
spelled out for you, the show 

1001
00:56:10,480 --> 00:56:13,880
trusts its audience to be 
intelligent and emotionally 

1002
00:56:13,880 --> 00:56:17,200
perceptive, and that trust is 
incredibly refreshing. 

1003
00:56:17,200 --> 00:56:20,840
So I think that the combination 
of the very human themes 

1004
00:56:20,840 --> 00:56:23,520
presented with empathy and 
optimism by the end of the 

1005
00:56:23,520 --> 00:56:27,240
story, and also that it was 
executed with such intentional 

1006
00:56:27,240 --> 00:56:29,800
artistry. 
That to me, is why the show has 

1007
00:56:29,800 --> 00:56:34,440
stayed with people, because it 
didn't just tell a story to you,

1008
00:56:34,800 --> 00:56:39,280
it made us all participants in 
that emotional investment and it

1009
00:56:39,280 --> 00:56:42,600
makes us feel like we all went 
on that journey together. 

1010
00:56:42,720 --> 00:56:45,480
Or, as Shane would say, 
together. 

1011
00:56:47,320 --> 00:56:49,960
This question says I'd love to 
hear more about your background 

1012
00:56:49,960 --> 00:56:52,360
and how it relates to the 
insights you share. 

1013
00:56:52,680 --> 00:56:57,520
For example, attachment styles. 
So I inherited my cinephilia 

1014
00:56:57,520 --> 00:57:01,440
from my mother and grew up 
watching movies and TV with her 

1015
00:57:01,440 --> 00:57:04,440
daily. 
She worked in continuity when 

1016
00:57:04,440 --> 00:57:07,360
she was younger, and so every 
time we watched any form of 

1017
00:57:07,360 --> 00:57:09,960
storytelling, she would point 
out continuity errors and 

1018
00:57:09,960 --> 00:57:13,560
explain the magic behind the 
scenes and how shots were 

1019
00:57:13,560 --> 00:57:17,680
composed and shown on screen. 
And that constant exposure to 

1020
00:57:17,680 --> 00:57:21,360
storytelling and the craft that 
goes into visual storytelling 

1021
00:57:21,720 --> 00:57:24,760
was a huge part of my upbringing
and definitely shaped my 

1022
00:57:24,960 --> 00:57:29,040
interest in it. 
I was also a visual art and art 

1023
00:57:29,040 --> 00:57:32,440
history major in college, so 
studying art in all of. 

1024
00:57:32,640 --> 00:57:36,720
Many forms is another facet of 
my approach to these videos. 

1025
00:57:36,760 --> 00:57:41,440
In regards to the attachment 
style insights, that's largely 

1026
00:57:41,440 --> 00:57:44,760
from my own. 
Work with a coach. 

1027
00:57:45,200 --> 00:57:49,280
And learning about my own 
attachment style and doing a lot

1028
00:57:49,280 --> 00:57:53,360
of that hard work to understand 
it and wrap my brain around it 

1029
00:57:53,360 --> 00:57:57,040
in myself and also in people 
around me so that I can better 

1030
00:57:57,040 --> 00:57:59,520
navigate interpersonal 
relationships. 

1031
00:57:59,520 --> 00:58:03,320
And I would also say that I've 
always been very emotionally 

1032
00:58:03,320 --> 00:58:05,560
intuitive and observant. 
I think that's something I've 

1033
00:58:05,560 --> 00:58:08,120
always been so. 
All of those. 

1034
00:58:08,120 --> 00:58:13,160
Things pour into how I consume 
media and watch TV and movies, 

1035
00:58:13,200 --> 00:58:17,200
and I think that understanding 
the humanness of characters is 

1036
00:58:17,200 --> 00:58:20,480
something I've always really, 
really been interested in doing.

1037
00:58:20,760 --> 00:58:25,600
And as I'm writing my own novel 
with my co-author, I'm 

1038
00:58:25,600 --> 00:58:28,680
fascinated by character 
development and shaping 

1039
00:58:28,880 --> 00:58:31,880
characters. 
So it's always been an interest 

1040
00:58:31,880 --> 00:58:34,400
to find and. 
This show is a really great 

1041
00:58:34,400 --> 00:58:38,600
example of very well written 
characters, so it's easy for me 

1042
00:58:38,600 --> 00:58:39,720
to deep. 
Dive into it. 

1043
00:58:39,880 --> 00:58:43,280
This question is I want to know 
your process for creating these 

1044
00:58:43,280 --> 00:58:45,280
breakdowns of the show and 
books. 

1045
00:58:45,560 --> 00:58:48,560
How much homework do you do in 
order to create these? 

1046
00:58:48,920 --> 00:58:51,800
Do you collaborate with other 
content creators or? 

1047
00:58:51,960 --> 00:58:55,120
Just other people to help you 
make these videos, or are they 

1048
00:58:55,120 --> 00:58:59,160
entirely of your own creation? 
First of all, thank you for 

1049
00:58:59,160 --> 00:59:02,280
asking. 
I spend quite a bit of time 

1050
00:59:02,280 --> 00:59:05,640
reviewing the show and the book 
before finalizing any of my 

1051
00:59:05,640 --> 00:59:10,000
breakdown scripts, and a lot of 
the more thematic videos and 

1052
00:59:10,000 --> 00:59:12,320
topics are born out of 
conversations. 

1053
00:59:12,320 --> 00:59:15,200
With. 
My friend and creative partner 

1054
00:59:15,200 --> 00:59:18,680
Lo and her and I are Co writing 
a novel series right now. 

1055
00:59:18,680 --> 00:59:21,640
So we're always nerding out on 
story structure and character 

1056
00:59:21,640 --> 00:59:25,560
development and it's always a 
continuous discussion that 

1057
00:59:25,920 --> 00:59:29,920
organically produces content. 
And as we watched Heated 

1058
00:59:29,920 --> 00:59:32,120
Rivalry, that was very much the 
case. 

1059
00:59:32,480 --> 00:59:36,080
We were having these long 
discussions and probably the 

1060
00:59:36,080 --> 00:59:40,400
100th time we started having one
of these, Lo told me to record 

1061
00:59:40,400 --> 00:59:42,240
my thoughts and I finally 
listened. 

1062
00:59:42,760 --> 00:59:45,680
So hopefully she'll agree to 
record her thoughts on this 

1063
00:59:45,680 --> 00:59:48,880
podcast with me sometime soon so
you can all hear how our 

1064
00:59:48,880 --> 00:59:53,000
conversations tend to flow 
upstream and then we suddenly 

1065
00:59:53,000 --> 00:59:56,600
arrive at a creative watering 
hole that solves 5 problems we 

1066
00:59:56,600 --> 00:59:58,480
didn't even know we had. 
On the whole. 

1067
00:59:58,480 --> 01:00:02,080
Though when I'm breaking down 
each individual scene, a lot of 

1068
01:00:02,080 --> 01:00:05,640
my commentary is just things I'm
observing as I'm watching. 

1069
01:00:05,640 --> 01:00:09,400
Usually when I'm consuming 
media, I will watch it the first

1070
01:00:09,400 --> 01:00:12,680
time just to enjoy it and then 
the second time I will. 

1071
01:00:12,760 --> 01:00:16,080
I will watch it and pay 
attention to the details of the 

1072
01:00:16,080 --> 01:00:18,440
scene, so some of them I notice 
right away. 

1073
01:00:18,440 --> 01:00:21,680
Even when I'm viewing it for the
first time and trying to just 

1074
01:00:21,680 --> 01:00:25,000
enjoy the media. 
I will notice visual cues, I 

1075
01:00:25,000 --> 01:00:29,960
will notice repeated patterns, I
will notice blocking, lighting, 

1076
01:00:30,360 --> 01:00:32,920
sound mixing. 
I will notice those things just 

1077
01:00:32,920 --> 01:00:38,880
because I always look for them 
in media, and as I'm consuming 

1078
01:00:38,880 --> 01:00:42,720
the media, the things I'm 
pointing out to myself I often 

1079
01:00:42,920 --> 01:00:46,440
think might be interesting for 
other people to have pointed out

1080
01:00:46,440 --> 01:00:48,240
for them. 
So the second time I watch 

1081
01:00:48,240 --> 01:00:50,480
something through, I'll make 
note of all of those little 

1082
01:00:50,480 --> 01:00:52,360
details. 
And then when I'm writing the 

1083
01:00:52,360 --> 01:00:56,160
scripts, I just make sure that 
the angle that I'm thinking the 

1084
01:00:56,160 --> 01:01:01,160
scene might want to be conveyed 
in or the context I'm thinking 

1085
01:01:01,160 --> 01:01:02,960
might be applicable. 
There I just. 

1086
01:01:02,960 --> 01:01:06,440
Fact Check it with the book or 
the source material and. 

1087
01:01:06,920 --> 01:01:11,080
Then run it through my own brain
to figure out how to best convey

1088
01:01:11,080 --> 01:01:13,560
what I'm trying to say in a 
clear and concise way for 

1089
01:01:13,560 --> 01:01:16,560
people. 
And one that easily ties it back

1090
01:01:16,560 --> 01:01:21,480
to the book if that's what I'm 
doing in the review or connects 

1091
01:01:21,480 --> 01:01:23,480
it to. 
In some cases, we're talking 

1092
01:01:23,480 --> 01:01:27,800
about attachment styles or just 
my insights and understanding of

1093
01:01:27,800 --> 01:01:30,960
the character and how I'm 
interpreting the scene versus 

1094
01:01:30,960 --> 01:01:35,080
how I think strategically the 
scene is being shot or edited 

1095
01:01:35,120 --> 01:01:38,240
and how that would inform the 
way it's meant to be 

1096
01:01:38,440 --> 01:01:39,720
interpreted. 
So. 

1097
01:01:39,720 --> 01:01:42,240
There's a lot of. 
Homework that goes into these 

1098
01:01:42,240 --> 01:01:47,080
breakdowns, and I definitely try
and do all of it before I 

1099
01:01:47,080 --> 01:01:50,560
publish anything to make sure 
that my point of view is coming 

1100
01:01:50,560 --> 01:01:54,480
from a place that's a 
well-rounded and educated 1. 

1101
01:01:55,280 --> 01:01:57,000
All right. 
I think I'm going to wrap this 

1102
01:01:57,000 --> 01:01:59,200
up there. 
Puts us right around the one 

1103
01:01:59,200 --> 01:02:03,640
hour mark, which is great. 
I pretty much covered all of the

1104
01:02:03,640 --> 01:02:06,840
heavy hitting questions, but I 
did still have a number of 

1105
01:02:06,840 --> 01:02:09,480
questions that people had 
submitted, which I'm so 

1106
01:02:09,480 --> 01:02:12,400
appreciative of. 
If it's of interest, I'm sure we

1107
01:02:12,400 --> 01:02:15,080
could put together a Part 3 of 
this Q&A. 

1108
01:02:15,160 --> 01:02:18,640
And if you have any additional 
questions, as always, be sure to

1109
01:02:18,640 --> 01:02:22,520
leave them on any of my socials 
and I will do my best to get 

1110
01:02:22,520 --> 01:02:25,640
back to you individually or like
I said, put it into another 

1111
01:02:25,640 --> 01:02:28,760
episode like this if people are 
liking the more long form 

1112
01:02:28,760 --> 01:02:31,000
answers. 
So thank you again so much for 

1113
01:02:31,000 --> 01:02:34,440
tuning in, for listening. 
This has been a long episode, so

1114
01:02:34,440 --> 01:02:37,200
if you've made it to the end, I 
really, really appreciate it and

1115
01:02:37,200 --> 01:02:38,920
I will see you all. 
In the next one.