1
00:00:01,440 --> 00:00:05,000
Hey friends, and welcome back to
another incredible episode of 

2
00:00:05,040 --> 00:00:08,400
Add Up LND. 
I'm your host, Holly Owens, and 

3
00:00:08,400 --> 00:00:13,160
today I'm beyond excited because
we have a returning guest who is

4
00:00:13,160 --> 00:00:15,600
basically a legend in the LND 
world. 

5
00:00:15,800 --> 00:00:17,760
Christy Tucker is back on the 
mic. 

6
00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:21,920
If you're not already following 
her on LinkedIn or reading her 

7
00:00:21,920 --> 00:00:26,840
blog, what are you doing? 
Christy brings deep insight, 

8
00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:30,480
clarity, and a whole lot of real
talk when it comes to 

9
00:00:30,480 --> 00:00:34,360
instructional design, 
freelancing, and all things 

10
00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:37,880
scenario based learning. 
In this episode, we nerd out 

11
00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:42,040
hard on what it makes what it 
makes good learning stick, 

12
00:00:42,600 --> 00:00:47,480
especially branching scenarios, 
simulations, and how to actually

13
00:00:47,480 --> 00:00:50,080
apply these tools in the real 
world. 

14
00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:54,800
Plus, we dive into how AI has 
evolved in our workflows over 

15
00:00:54,800 --> 00:00:59,240
the last year, the ethical 
nuances around image generation,

16
00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:03,680
and where this technology might 
take our field next. 

17
00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:07,920
So buckle up, this is one of 
those jam packed conversations 

18
00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:10,120
that's going to get your wheels 
turned. 

19
00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:12,920
Let's dive in with Christy 
Tucker. 

20
00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:18,440
Hi, we're ispring, an 
international team of e-learning

21
00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:22,600
enthusiasts who help more than 
60,000 clients across the globe 

22
00:01:22,600 --> 00:01:25,320
succeed with better online 
learning. 

23
00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:30,240
Our two flagship solutions are 
ispring Suite and ispring Learn 

24
00:01:30,280 --> 00:01:33,680
LMS. 
Ispring Suite is an intuitive, 

25
00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:37,240
all in one authoring tool for 
creating engaging e-learning 

26
00:01:37,240 --> 00:01:41,160
content, and ispringlearn is an 
innovative online training 

27
00:01:41,160 --> 00:01:44,880
platform for onboarding, 
upskilling, and certifying your 

28
00:01:44,880 --> 00:01:47,560
teams. 
We also provide tons of free 

29
00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:50,400
resources for aspiring and 
experienced e-learning 

30
00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:53,720
professionals, conduct weekly 
webinars with top industry 

31
00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:57,440
experts, and organize annual 
e-learning conferences, 

32
00:01:57,520 --> 00:02:02,000
challenges, and championships. 
We'd be happy to get to know you

33
00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:04,760
and pick a solution that fits 
your needs best. 

34
00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:10,759
Go to www.icepringsolutions.com 
to learn more about us, download

35
00:02:10,759 --> 00:02:16,840
our resources, and connect. 
Hello everyone, and welcome to 

36
00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:19,960
another amazing episode of Add 
Up L&D. 

37
00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:23,880
I'm super pumped today because 
we have a returning guest and 

38
00:02:23,880 --> 00:02:25,960
you're going to love her. 
If you don't already love her, 

39
00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:29,880
follow around LinkedIn and all 
of her great resources and tips.

40
00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:33,480
Christy Tucker is here. 
Welcome to the show, Christy. 

41
00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:35,080
Welcome back to the show, 
Christy. 

42
00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:37,920
It's so good to have a chance to
chat with you again, Holly. 

43
00:02:37,920 --> 00:02:40,960
We had so much fun last time. 
We did and I'm, I'm looking 

44
00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:43,600
forward to asking that question 
we were talking about earlier 

45
00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:46,720
cuz it's, we kind of had, it was
a timely episode. 

46
00:02:46,720 --> 00:02:50,800
The last episode it was. 
But but before we dive into all 

47
00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:54,280
that, for those who don't know 
you, and they should know you 

48
00:02:54,920 --> 00:02:57,920
out on the LinkedIn space 
especially, tell us about your 

49
00:02:57,920 --> 00:03:01,120
journey into L&D, what you do 
like, what's your area of 

50
00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:04,640
expertise, all the different 
things you've been up to and how

51
00:03:04,640 --> 00:03:07,800
you've grown into this area that
you're in now. 

52
00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:12,920
Yeah, so my career has always 
been about helping people learn 

53
00:03:12,920 --> 00:03:15,320
in one way or another. 
So I've been helping people 

54
00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:20,280
learn for over 20 years. 
I started as AK12 music band 

55
00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:23,000
teacher. 
Like most of us, not a band. 

56
00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:25,640
Teacher many of us started as 
AK12 teacher. 

57
00:03:25,640 --> 00:03:27,160
That's that's where I started 
to. 

58
00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:33,920
And then I switched to corporate
software training back when lots

59
00:03:33,920 --> 00:03:38,840
of businesses had computer labs 
where you would go in person and

60
00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:42,440
sit in a computer room and have 
a person stand up in the front 

61
00:03:42,440 --> 00:03:44,440
of the room and teach you how to
use Microsoft Office. 

62
00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:47,680
Yeah, I did that job. 
It is why I know all sorts of 

63
00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:50,800
obscure, you know, Microsoft 
Office, Microsoft Excel 

64
00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:53,440
shortcuts and. 
Things we're gonna have to get 

65
00:03:53,440 --> 00:03:56,080
like a random fact in the 
episode about Microsoft 

66
00:03:56,080 --> 00:03:58,520
something. 
I know we, we, we did. 

67
00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:02,520
So I did all of that, like the 
train people how to use train 

68
00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:06,000
people how to use Office and 
Microsoft Project and Access and

69
00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:09,160
a little bit of relational 
relational database design. 

70
00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:12,960
And that was fun. 
But I missed the creating the 

71
00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:14,920
curriculum side of things from 
teaching. 

72
00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:17,360
I'd been like teaching out of 
books that other people were 

73
00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:21,079
writing up and I that was fine, 
but, and I liked working with 

74
00:04:21,079 --> 00:04:23,920
adult learners, but I missed the
writing side of things. 

75
00:04:23,920 --> 00:04:26,200
And so I did the research of 
like, well, what's, what's a job

76
00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:29,920
where I do that and found 
instructional design and then 

77
00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:34,040
spent a long time applying for 
jobs before I got the first 

78
00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:38,720
instructional design job. 
But I have now been working in 

79
00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:42,760
instructional design for over 20
years and so. 

80
00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:46,600
It goes by fast, doesn't it? 
Yeah, I've done. 

81
00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:51,800
I did started out as work for an
online university initially, but

82
00:04:51,840 --> 00:04:57,000
I've done kind of both higher Ed
and workplace training things. 

83
00:04:57,000 --> 00:05:01,320
I've worked with nonprofits and 
government agencies, everything 

84
00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:04,440
from cities up to federal 
government agencies. 

85
00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:07,400
I've done lots of things with 
associations and professional 

86
00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:10,160
development for people through 
associations. 

87
00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:13,000
And I started my own business in
2011. 

88
00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:17,160
So I've been now working for 
myself for more than 10 years. 

89
00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:20,800
I am a terrible yes man. 
And so I'm not actually very 

90
00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:23,600
good working for a boss. 
It's much better when I'm the 

91
00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:26,320
external consultant and then I 
get to tell people like, yeah, 

92
00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:30,040
this is a dumb way to do things.
I mean I'm I'm usually better, 

93
00:05:30,040 --> 00:05:33,720
more diplomatic. 
But we have a, we have, we have 

94
00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:35,720
a much better way that you can. 
Right, right. 

95
00:05:35,960 --> 00:05:39,560
It's always, it's always, it's 
always on the like, well, you 

96
00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:41,600
know, I can see where you're 
going with this. 

97
00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:44,520
But given the goal that you've 
said that you had, do you think 

98
00:05:44,520 --> 00:05:46,920
that would you be open to 
considering another approach? 

99
00:05:46,960 --> 00:05:48,960
Yeah, So like people. 
There you go. 

100
00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:51,120
Like the way that you did it is 
dumb. 

101
00:05:51,760 --> 00:05:54,480
Yeah. 
But it is sometimes it is like 

102
00:05:54,480 --> 00:05:57,560
you have to be pretty blunt, 
like this is not going to work. 

103
00:05:57,720 --> 00:06:00,240
It is really not going. 
To work and also sometimes it is

104
00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:04,800
the I've made my recommendation,
but ultimately you're the 

105
00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:09,000
customer and if you choose to go
ahead with this, like understand

106
00:06:09,400 --> 00:06:14,240
that you know you're taking 
responsibility for the outcomes.

107
00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:16,720
That's going to be your the 
You're responsible for the 

108
00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:20,280
consequences of what happens. 
And it is these Sometimes you 

109
00:06:20,280 --> 00:06:22,960
let clients have the natural 
consequences of their decisions.

110
00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:25,160
Yeah. 
And sometimes that also is your 

111
00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:28,560
job as a consultant. 
So I've been doing that these 

112
00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:32,200
days, I specialize particularly 
in scenario based learning and 

113
00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:35,320
branching scenarios. 
I've been blogging. 

114
00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:37,800
I'll hit, let's see. 
I'm, I'm, I'm not, I'm not at 

115
00:06:37,800 --> 00:06:42,240
the 20 years on blogging, but 
it's been a long time and I do 

116
00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:45,720
right in my blog about scenario 
based learning and a lot about 

117
00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:48,920
AI images and, and using AI 
these days too. 

118
00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:52,840
So those are sort of the things 
that I'm known for. 

119
00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:55,080
Yeah. 
So you know, for the audience 

120
00:06:55,080 --> 00:06:57,520
that doesn't know, you're 
definitely an expert in the 

121
00:06:57,520 --> 00:06:59,320
scenario based learning as 
you're saying. 

122
00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:01,360
So tell them what that actually 
is. 

123
00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:04,640
Now we have some, we definitely 
have a majority of our audiences

124
00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:06,320
transitioning teachers like 
ourselves. 

125
00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:09,360
So they might not understand, 
you know the IDs and that are 

126
00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:11,080
listening, they definitely have 
an idea. 

127
00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:12,640
But what is scenario based 
learning? 

128
00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:16,000
And you know, I think I actually
wouldn't necessarily seem that 

129
00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:17,640
everybody who's an instruction 
designer does. 

130
00:07:17,640 --> 00:07:20,720
Yeah, that's true. 
Because we are so terrible in 

131
00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:23,440
this field about having 
consistent terminology, scenario

132
00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:27,640
based learning is not maybe 
quite as bad as like micro 

133
00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:30,920
learning in terms of David Kelly
once said that there are no 

134
00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:33,800
definitions of micro learning, 
there are just opinions, some of

135
00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:35,520
which are labeled as 
definitions. 

136
00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:38,160
Is that the same for scenario? 
Based and scenario based 

137
00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:41,400
learning has there is some of 
that too of the I will say I 

138
00:07:41,400 --> 00:07:44,560
tend, I personally tend to be 
pretty broad in my definition of

139
00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:47,720
scenario based learning that I 
do tend to think that any sort 

140
00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:51,520
of learning that is using 
scenarios as part of the 

141
00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:55,680
training, as part of the 
learning experience can go under

142
00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:58,080
that broad umbrella of scenario 
based learning. 

143
00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:02,120
Branching scenarios are one form
of that, and they tend to be the

144
00:08:02,120 --> 00:08:04,720
one that people think of, but I 
would actually put that as a 

145
00:08:04,720 --> 00:08:07,920
smaller subset within a broader.
That's the one, I think. 

146
00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:13,800
Of right So branching scenarios 
are essentially like the choose 

147
00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:18,920
your own adventure story for 
training so it is that you have 

148
00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:23,080
a situation you have a couple of
choices you make a choice and 

149
00:08:23,080 --> 00:08:26,600
then what happens next is 
different depending on what your

150
00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:31,400
choice is and so it branches out
into multiple different paths 

151
00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:35,039
and there are multiple different
endings positive and negative 

152
00:08:35,039 --> 00:08:38,640
and you get different results 
you see the consequences of your

153
00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:42,200
decisions and I love. 
Before you're actually doing it 

154
00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:43,799
in real life. 
Right before. 

155
00:08:43,799 --> 00:08:46,160
You're which is important. 
Right, right. 

156
00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:49,600
And so it's a key thing for when
you've got things like the soft 

157
00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:52,000
skills, when you've got 
communication skills, when 

158
00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:54,880
you've got strategic skills, 
when you've got things where 

159
00:08:54,880 --> 00:08:59,360
there's Gray area and where 
you're working on practicing 

160
00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:03,080
decision making. 
Branching scenarios are one of 

161
00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:07,160
the most effective ways to train
that. 

162
00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:11,640
One thing that we fail a lot in,
in workplace training in 

163
00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:15,200
particular, and and also in 
education is giving people 

164
00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:19,600
enough practice with feedback, 
doing the actual thing. 

165
00:09:20,320 --> 00:09:24,680
And the closer you can get the 
practice to look like the real 

166
00:09:24,680 --> 00:09:27,200
skill the people need to do, the
better off it is. 

167
00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:30,680
And so even though in a 
branching scenario you might 

168
00:09:30,680 --> 00:09:34,440
have just text or maybe you have
text and static images, you can 

169
00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:38,840
still make it cognitively more 
similar to the kinds of skills 

170
00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:41,800
that people need to practice. 
You can have them practice 

171
00:09:41,800 --> 00:09:46,240
decision making, which is key 
for a whole lot of different 

172
00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:48,120
things. 
So you know, if it's something 

173
00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:51,600
procedural where you just follow
the same steps every time and 

174
00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:53,480
it's exactly the same every time
you do it. 

175
00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:55,800
And if you give five different 
people the thing, you're going 

176
00:09:55,800 --> 00:09:58,640
to get the same results all five
times as long as they follow the

177
00:09:58,640 --> 00:10:00,560
procedure. 
Don't use a brand new scenario 

178
00:10:00,560 --> 00:10:01,600
for that. 
It's overkill. 

179
00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:02,640
It's dumb, you'll waste your 
time. 

180
00:10:04,720 --> 00:10:07,960
But well said. 
Right like now, maybe you need a

181
00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:09,920
little. 
Maybe you do need some sort of 

182
00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:11,960
simulation of the process, like 
there's. 

183
00:10:11,960 --> 00:10:14,560
Yeah, I was gonna ask cuz that's
one of the things we use a lot 

184
00:10:14,560 --> 00:10:20,280
at Amazon as simulations in. 
Privacy in a simulation that 

185
00:10:20,280 --> 00:10:22,640
walks you through. 
But if it is, if it is just if 

186
00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:25,400
it is something where there's a 
checklist and you really are 

187
00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:26,800
doing it the same way every 
time. 

188
00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:29,480
This is the difference between 
procedural skills and strategic 

189
00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:31,680
skills. 
Ruth Clark talks about this in 

190
00:10:31,680 --> 00:10:35,680
her book on scenario based 
e-learning where she talks about

191
00:10:35,680 --> 00:10:39,120
like when do you use scenarios 
and when do you should you use? 

192
00:10:39,120 --> 00:10:43,000
When is some other approach, 
probably better procedural is 

193
00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:45,880
you give five people the task 
and you get and as long as 

194
00:10:45,880 --> 00:10:47,920
everybody does it right, you get
the same result five times. 

195
00:10:49,560 --> 00:10:53,000
Strategic tasks are the ones 
where if you give five people 

196
00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:56,480
the brief and you're going to 
get 5 different results, all of 

197
00:10:56,480 --> 00:11:00,880
which may be successful, 
although in different ways. 

198
00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:05,400
So if it is building a website 
for your business, you give that

199
00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:07,800
brief to five different web 
developers, you are going to get

200
00:11:08,160 --> 00:11:13,600
very different results and they 
all could be successful 

201
00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:17,600
depending on, but they're 
probably going to, you know, 

202
00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:20,320
weigh certain factors higher or 
lower. 

203
00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:23,960
Visual design is not, there's 
not one way to solve that. 

204
00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:28,440
Writing things, writing, 
copywriting, learning, there's 

205
00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:33,240
not one right answer that is 
automatically better than 

206
00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:37,400
everything else. 
Those are strategic skills and 

207
00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:40,680
those in particular are really 
hard to practice in a lot of the

208
00:11:40,680 --> 00:11:45,080
traditional ways that we do 
assessment and practice where we

209
00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:49,120
have forced choice, branching 
scenarios do still have a forced

210
00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:52,880
choice in the typical way that 
we're doing things, but it is a 

211
00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:55,120
forced choice within a realistic
context. 

212
00:11:55,360 --> 00:11:58,440
And you're choosing to do 
something not just to talk 

213
00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:01,520
about, you know, categorizing. 
Well, what type of question 

214
00:12:02,080 --> 00:12:04,280
would you do? 
It's the difference between 

215
00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:06,320
you're a manager and you're 
trying to resolve a conflict 

216
00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:11,400
between two of your employees 
asking the question, what type 

217
00:12:11,400 --> 00:12:15,320
of de escalation strategy should
you use in order to make sure 

218
00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:18,880
that both participants, both 
employees feel heard, right? 

219
00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:22,520
That's categorization question 
and it's abstracted, but it's 

220
00:12:22,520 --> 00:12:26,800
not the same as deciding, you 
know, Rita and Oliver are 

221
00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:29,400
arguing. 
Here's what they said. 

222
00:12:29,800 --> 00:12:33,520
What do you do next? 
If you immediately take one 

223
00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:37,800
employee's side and say, OK, 
Oliver, I think you've got a 

224
00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:39,840
good point here, Rita, I think 
we should just go with Oliver's 

225
00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:41,600
plan. 
And you cut that off without 

226
00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:44,840
listening, you're going to get a
different result than if you 

227
00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:49,000
say, OK, let's sit down and have
a conversation about this. 

228
00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:52,880
Or if you go talk to each one of
them privately first and then 

229
00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:55,080
you try to get them together, 
maybe you get some other 

230
00:12:55,080 --> 00:12:57,920
background information so you 
come in more prepared for that 

231
00:12:57,920 --> 00:12:59,360
conversation with the two of 
them. 

232
00:12:59,840 --> 00:13:02,360
For sure. 
Yeah, that's, that's common. 

233
00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:06,000
That happens across industries. 
Those sorts of conversations are

234
00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:07,840
the sorts of conflicts that you 
have to resolve. 

235
00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:11,160
It's not just strictly related 
to like anything that we're in. 

236
00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:13,400
You're kind of, you're already 
mentioning this, but you know, 

237
00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:16,280
what are some of the most common
mistakes instructional designers

238
00:13:16,280 --> 00:13:18,600
make when they create these 
branching scenarios you're 

239
00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:20,160
talking about? 
Like they don't like if it's 

240
00:13:20,160 --> 00:13:23,320
just one workflow, you don't 
need a branching scenario or a 

241
00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:28,040
simulation necessary for that. 
And like, how can, how can we 

242
00:13:28,040 --> 00:13:30,200
fix them? 
So if they've, I know one of the

243
00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:33,280
things when I worked at 
pharmacy, we have had so many E 

244
00:13:33,280 --> 00:13:36,640
learnings that we had from one 
boarding till, you know, 

245
00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:39,720
retraining them, but we had to 
go back and redo everything. 

246
00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:43,640
So how when they get to this 
point where they're taking a 

247
00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:46,320
different approach, maybe 
they're updating, How do you, 

248
00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:49,360
how can they fix that stuff? 
What can they do? 

249
00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:53,040
So I think there's there's two 
things in terms of like getting 

250
00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:54,560
started. 
One option is, you know, I 

251
00:13:54,560 --> 00:13:57,800
talked about how I do tend to 
take the broader view on 

252
00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:01,160
scenario based learning. 
Besides the branching scenarios.

253
00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:06,480
I also use a lot of one question
mini scenarios, set it up, ask 

254
00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:11,200
one question and then give some 
feedback because even if I 

255
00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:14,640
cannot convince an organization 
that they want to invest in a 

256
00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:19,760
branching scenario, the one 
question scenario does not take 

257
00:14:19,760 --> 00:14:23,160
too much longer to write than a 
traditional multiple choice 

258
00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:26,000
question. 
But it's more application, it's 

259
00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:29,320
higher level thinking, it's a 
better practice activity. 

260
00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:33,480
It's a really good way to get 
started and to start building 

261
00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:37,520
your skills writing these little
scenarios and writing tight and 

262
00:14:38,120 --> 00:14:44,640
writing choices that are actions
rather than the abstract or 

263
00:14:44,640 --> 00:14:48,000
categorization kinds of 
questions that we tend to do. 

264
00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:51,800
So the recall stuff, yeah. 
Yeah, the recall because so much

265
00:14:51,800 --> 00:14:55,000
of the time, right, we, we do an
e-learning, we give them content

266
00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:58,160
and then we say so, you know, 
can you remember the thing we 

267
00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:00,120
told you 5 minutes ago? 
Like the definition of 

268
00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:02,880
something. 
Right, the death, yeah, which is

269
00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:07,560
the definition of these things. 
Which order do these steps go 

270
00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:10,120
in? 
OK, like that is important, but 

271
00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:15,240
also is it a more effective 
practice to have them recognize 

272
00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:18,760
the order in a multiple choice 
question where you've just 

273
00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:22,000
shuffled the things around for 
three or four choices or is it a

274
00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:23,480
more? 
And then when they retake it, 

275
00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:25,560
it's reshuffled again. 
Right, then it's reshuffled. 

276
00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:31,120
Or is it more effective to give 
them a scenario in which case 

277
00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:33,240
they have to do the steps in 
order? 

278
00:15:33,760 --> 00:15:39,120
And I love as a plausible 
distractor for scenarios to have

279
00:15:39,360 --> 00:15:44,080
the right decision at the wrong 
time in the process because 

280
00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:46,640
that's a really easy mistake. 
Anytime you have something where

281
00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:49,840
there's a step of thing, it's 
the, Oh yeah, I need to use, you

282
00:15:49,840 --> 00:15:53,280
know, thinking about 
motivational interviewing, which

283
00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:55,880
is a technique in, in healthcare
and other things. 

284
00:15:55,880 --> 00:15:58,560
It's it's having conversations 
with people to encourage 

285
00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:00,480
behavior change. 
But you don't want to do the 

286
00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:03,600
summary too early in the process
because it's the thing that you 

287
00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:05,520
do at the closing. 
Right. 

288
00:16:06,040 --> 00:16:10,800
But if you jump into it too 
fast, or if you should ask a 

289
00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:15,760
question about you, you should 
be making a suggestion to have a

290
00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:18,640
small behavior change, just some
small measurable behavior 

291
00:16:18,640 --> 00:16:21,120
change. 
But you can make that suggestion

292
00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:24,360
too early in the process, before
you've done enough of the sort 

293
00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:29,400
of behavior change work before. 
Yes, I understand what you're. 

294
00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:31,080
Saying right. 
And so it's. 

295
00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:32,960
Yeah. 
It's the wrong process. 

296
00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:37,160
You're kind of giving them the 
answer without making them go 

297
00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:40,160
through. 
I kind of related to like long 

298
00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:44,040
division and short division. 
Like you have learned the full 

299
00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:49,360
process 1st and then you can 
learn those shorter ways, yeah. 

300
00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:54,120
If that's the if the skill you 
need to train has that kind of 

301
00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:58,680
complexity in it, then it's 
really hard to train it if all 

302
00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:01,000
you're doing is single multiple 
choice questions. 

303
00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:03,720
Exactly. 
Say it louder for the people in 

304
00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:06,440
the back. 
There was just a conversation on

305
00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:10,079
the instruction design subreddit
about when do you use branching 

306
00:17:10,079 --> 00:17:12,599
scenarios and how do you get the
ideas for when you should do it 

307
00:17:12,599 --> 00:17:14,440
or not. 
And somebody said in the real 

308
00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:17,760
world, if I can get 80% there 
with the one question mini 

309
00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:19,720
scenario, should I be doing this
Well? 

310
00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:22,800
If it only meets one of these 
and I can kind of do it with a 

311
00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:24,280
one question mini scenario, 
should you? 

312
00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:28,880
Well, part of the answer is you 
do branching scenarios when the 

313
00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:34,520
problem you're trying to solve 
is worth the cost and effort of 

314
00:17:34,520 --> 00:17:36,800
building a branching scenario. 
Right. 

315
00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:39,760
How painful is the problem that 
you're trying to solve? 

316
00:17:41,280 --> 00:17:43,960
How complex is the skill that 
you're trying to train? 

317
00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:46,440
Right. 
And of course, data will 

318
00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:49,280
influence some of that 
conversation as well, bringing 

319
00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:50,560
some of the data. 
Yep. 

320
00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:53,240
And so if you've got data and 
some of the how painful it is, 

321
00:17:53,240 --> 00:17:57,880
is also the if you're training 
50 people in a small 

322
00:17:57,880 --> 00:18:02,240
organization, the solution has 
to be faster to build than if 

323
00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:07,440
you are training 10,000 people. 
Because something that is a 

324
00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:11,600
small problem but magnified by 
10,000 people is much more 

325
00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:16,080
likely to be expensive enough to
be worth building a more complex

326
00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:18,680
scenario. 
And that's part of the real 

327
00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:21,480
world of figuring out what 
approaches you use. 

328
00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:24,640
As much as I'd love to say every
project I do is a like cool 

329
00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:27,440
branching scenario and. 
Like it's changed in the world. 

330
00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:32,040
It's not and I do lots of one 
question mini scenarios because 

331
00:18:32,040 --> 00:18:34,720
sometimes that's what it is. 
I I've done interactive video 

332
00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:37,640
scenarios. 
Actually higher actors have 1/2 

333
00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:40,680
day shoot. 
It's, it's totally overkill for 

334
00:18:40,680 --> 00:18:42,160
this. 
And I, I've worked with this 

335
00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:48,080
great Snee who has this vast 
collection of photos of real 

336
00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:53,360
problems in the environment. 
And so I love her so much 

337
00:18:53,360 --> 00:18:55,520
because she's gone through and 
like labeled them. 

338
00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:58,480
She'll sort them into folders of
like which problem it is, and 

339
00:18:58,480 --> 00:19:01,800
then she'll have bad and good 
and has them labeled in the 

340
00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:02,960
photos. 
This is great. 

341
00:19:03,120 --> 00:19:05,520
And so we did a lot of things. 
So frankly, for that one, the 

342
00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:10,120
scenarios were here's a photo 
you're inspecting this site, 

343
00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:13,600
here's what you see. 
Here's the checklist that you're

344
00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:16,640
using for your inspection. 
What problems do you check off 

345
00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:19,440
which, which things meet it, 
which things don't? 

346
00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:23,400
Based on the photos, those are 
much smaller, lightweight 

347
00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:26,600
scenarios. 
But the skill I need people to 

348
00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:30,160
do in that case is to visually 
look at something and recognize 

349
00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:31,960
whether it's a problem that 
needs to be addressed or not. 

350
00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:36,960
And so I'm getting the practice 
exercise to look as much like 

351
00:19:37,360 --> 00:19:42,360
the real skill that they need to
do as I can do in a self-paced 

352
00:19:42,360 --> 00:19:44,800
e-learning. 
My gosh, I love this episode. 

353
00:19:45,120 --> 00:19:47,600
And now I'm going to shift the 
conversation because last time 

354
00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:52,560
that we talked, AI was coming 
out like ChatGPT, that first 

355
00:19:52,560 --> 00:19:54,840
segment of this episode. 
That is so much valuable 

356
00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:56,400
information for instructional 
designers. 

357
00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:58,200
So they need to go re listen to 
that part. 

358
00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:03,560
But let's shift into AI. 
We were nervous about what was 

359
00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:06,960
AI gonna do to the industry, 
instructional designers, L&D as 

360
00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:09,320
a whole. 
My perspective has definitely 

361
00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:11,160
changed. 
How's your perspective? 

362
00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:14,640
What do you think about AI and 
how it fits in the workflows and

363
00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:17,840
things today for us? 
We were at that point where 

364
00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:19,960
there was a lot of people 
talking about is AI going to 

365
00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:22,680
take, you know, like is the 
instructional design field going

366
00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:26,440
to exist five years from now? 
I will say that I think overall,

367
00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:29,360
I don't think that the field of 
instructional design is going to

368
00:20:29,360 --> 00:20:31,840
disappear. 
I do think that roles are going 

369
00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:36,920
to change, and I think we don't 
know what all of those changes 

370
00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:38,320
will be. 
Yes. 

371
00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:43,400
There's this idea that we tend 
to overestimate the impact of 

372
00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:46,960
new technology in the short term
and underestimate the impact of 

373
00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:49,000
it in the long term. 
That is very true. 

374
00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:55,360
So when we see the, the, the 
arguments of like, oh, your 

375
00:20:55,360 --> 00:20:58,160
whole job is going to change in 
the next two to three years. 

376
00:20:58,360 --> 00:21:02,400
And if you aren't on board with 
AI right now doing using it 

377
00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:05,000
every single day, somebody else 
is going to take your job. 

378
00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:09,280
I get really uncomfortable with 
that level of hype and fear 

379
00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:12,680
mongering. 
The reality is big organizations

380
00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:16,680
do not move that fast. 
No, especially higher education 

381
00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:21,280
rate in academia. 
On the other hand, I don't think

382
00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:24,040
you should put your head in sand
and ignore it. 

383
00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:26,240
It's not going away. 
No. 

384
00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:29,360
And you do need to be paying 
attention. 

385
00:21:29,360 --> 00:21:32,720
One of the assets that we have 
in the L&D field is that we do 

386
00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:36,840
tend to be curious people. 
We like learning new stuff. 

387
00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:38,840
We're. 
Super nerdy Christy, we 

388
00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:41,640
establish this. 
We will go explore super nerdy 

389
00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:44,080
things. 
As as established, we're super 

390
00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:47,440
nerdy and enjoy learning for the
sake of learning in ways that, 

391
00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:50,480
like other people, maybe don't 
enjoy learning for the sake of 

392
00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:52,360
learning quite as much as we all
do. 

393
00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:56,240
You should be getting some of 
that hands on practice. 

394
00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:58,200
You should be trying and 
experimenting with it. 

395
00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:02,520
You should be figuring out where
it's helpful to you and where 

396
00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:06,000
the limits are, the tools are. 
And sometimes it is also that 

397
00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:09,080
you try the tools for something 
and say, I don't think this is 

398
00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:11,560
quite working yet. 
But as fast as the technology is

399
00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:15,000
changing, in six months or a 
year it may be able to do the 

400
00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:18,640
thing that you want to do. 
For my own work, I do use 

401
00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:22,120
ChatGPT and Claude for writing 
and I definitely do use to help 

402
00:22:22,120 --> 00:22:24,840
me get unstuck. 
And I suck at writing titles for

403
00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:27,440
presentations. 
We're twinning there because I 

404
00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:30,080
used to spend hours trying to 
think of creative titles. 

405
00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:34,280
Oh my gosh, it's torture. 
Yes, or, or the the other thing 

406
00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:37,320
that it's really good at of the 
like, oh, I have an acronym. 

407
00:22:37,360 --> 00:22:41,080
We've actually kind of decided 
on an acronym for this thing and

408
00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:43,680
we've got these concepts. 
Help me come up with things that

409
00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:46,880
will go for each letter in this,
like give me three options for 

410
00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:49,600
each letter in this acronym. 
Or here's the topic. 

411
00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:52,320
And like help me come up with 
mnemonics to come up with to do 

412
00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:54,680
this. 
Cuz like how long does it take 

413
00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:56,440
to come up with a really good 
mnemonic? 

414
00:22:56,640 --> 00:22:58,680
But brainstorming that with AI 
is great. 

415
00:22:59,120 --> 00:23:02,360
Yeah, 100%. 
I use it a lot for image 

416
00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:05,120
generation, again because my 
work does tend to be a lot of 

417
00:23:05,120 --> 00:23:08,880
scenarios. 
With AII can I can go in with 

418
00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:11,880
mid journey and I can generate 
unique characters for every 

419
00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:14,920
single project. 
I can do different poses for 

420
00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:17,240
them, I can change their outfit 
and their setting. 

421
00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:24,160
I love that. 
A journey is my primary tool for

422
00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:27,160
images. 
You spend $10 to get it for one 

423
00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:28,640
month. 
You can try it out and then you 

424
00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:31,120
can actually cancel it. 
And there are some specific 

425
00:23:31,120 --> 00:23:35,320
things that ChatGPT can do, like
giving it one image and then 

426
00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:38,480
saying, OK, now rotate this 90° 
so you can have the background 

427
00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:42,560
behind another character. 
Now show the view of the lobby 

428
00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:44,200
of what they would see from that
desk. 

429
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:47,480
ChatGPT does those things where 
most of the other image tools 

430
00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:48,760
don't. 
Don't understand language enough

431
00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:51,040
to do that. 
Right, right. 

432
00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:55,120
But Mid Journey does stylistic, 
does consistent characters. 

433
00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:58,600
You can do consistent styles. 
So if you give it one reference 

434
00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:03,280
image of an illustration, I can 
come up with 20 images that all 

435
00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:07,080
have the same visual style and 
colors that look like a whole 

436
00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:11,120
set for a training. 
I think long term we're gonna 

437
00:24:11,120 --> 00:24:14,600
see bigger changes, but if 
you're looking for the ways to 

438
00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:18,080
get started right now, I think 
image generation is one of the 

439
00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:20,800
places that you can go and do 
things right now. 

440
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:23,040
Yeah, and learn how to like, 
talk and learn. 

441
00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:24,000
How to do it? 
Props. 

442
00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:27,320
Yep. 
And do and solve actual problems

443
00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:30,560
for yourself. 
I also don't like using these to

444
00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:33,720
replicate the styles of living 
artists. 

445
00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:37,160
That's one of my other ethical 
lines with AI image Gen. 

446
00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:42,640
Yeah, we could definitely have a
whole conversation about that 

447
00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:46,240
for sure, yes. 
The ethics, the ethics of this I

448
00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:51,720
I personally you want to make a 
parody Starry night great. 

449
00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:55,280
No living artist is getting 
harmed by your training. 

450
00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:57,160
Customized starry night 
painting. 

451
00:24:57,240 --> 00:25:00,680
But I don't use it to recreate 
things of living artists. 

452
00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:02,560
That, for me, is the ethical 
line. 

453
00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:04,600
We'll definitely see what 
happens in the future with all 

454
00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:08,280
those different things as we're 
coming up on the end of the 

455
00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:10,720
episode, like where can people 
find you? 

456
00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:12,240
What are some of your final 
thoughts? 

457
00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:17,320
This has been jam packed with 
tips, AI, you know, things to 

458
00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:19,520
do, you freelancing, all those 
different things. 

459
00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:20,880
So where, where can people find 
you? 

460
00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:22,640
Where can they follow you? 
Of course, we're gonna include 

461
00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:24,520
everything in the show notes, 
but I want you to tell them 

462
00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:26,720
where to find you and yes, and 
connect. 

463
00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:29,560
Yes, absolutely. 
And so you can definitely find 

464
00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:32,680
me on LinkedIn. 
My blog is Christy Tucker 

465
00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:34,680
Learning. 
If you can't remember how to 

466
00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:38,320
spell Christie, it's You can 
also do C Tucker learning.com, 

467
00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:41,360
which is fewer letters. 
Yeah, everybody spells it 

468
00:25:41,360 --> 00:25:43,120
differently. 
Right, exactly. 

469
00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:46,080
Hopefully you're watching the 
episode so you can see how to 

470
00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:47,880
spell it. 
Right, if you're watching, it'll

471
00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:50,640
be it'll be clear. 
But if you are listening to this

472
00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:54,920
sign is the podcast in the car, 
then C Tucker learning is a lot 

473
00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:58,560
easier to remember. 
And I'm on blue sky Christy 

474
00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:03,960
Tucker there as well. 
And so those are the a big place

475
00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:05,720
to find me. 
Fantastic. 

476
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:08,920
I have a YouTube channel, I'm 
just not really doing anything 

477
00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:09,600
with it. 
You can. 

478
00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:11,920
Go yeah, YouTube is a challenge 
for me. 

479
00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:14,440
I'm trying to maybe we can 
motivate each other to get the 

480
00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:17,280
YouTube going. 
I know it's, it's just it's one 

481
00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:19,680
more channel channel and it's. 
One more thing. 

482
00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:22,240
Yeah, it's like you have the 
podcast and so that's your 

483
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:24,320
regular thing. 
I have, I have my blog and 

484
00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:26,440
that's my regular thing, right? 
So. 

485
00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:31,120
Yeah, well, Christy, you're 
amazing and I love talking to 

486
00:26:31,120 --> 00:26:33,280
you and you give so much great 
advice. 

487
00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:35,840
Just want to say thanks again 
for all you do for people in the

488
00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:37,800
L&D space. 
I can't wait for people to hear 

489
00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:39,680
this episode. 
Everything's going to be in the 

490
00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:42,120
show notes that Christy 
mentioned, where to find her, 

491
00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:45,280
where to connect, go to her 
blog, follow her out on 

492
00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:46,920
LinkedIn. 
She's an influencer. 

493
00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:48,920
So thank you so much for coming 
back on the show. 

494
00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:51,840
We appreciate it. 
Yeah, thanks so much for giving 

495
00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:55,400
me another opportunity to to 
nerd out with you. 

496
00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:58,880
Anytime. 
Go like deep into well, there 

497
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:02,480
are specific tools for Here's my
nuanced views on these little 

498
00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:05,200
Berry. 
I love the insider perspective 

499
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:08,440
in that we can dive deeper into 
that, and of course that leaves 

500
00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:11,160
it open for future episodes of 
different topics we can just 

501
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:13,160
talk about or LinkedIn live. 
So we'll probably do that one 

502
00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:14,240
day. 
All right. 

503
00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:19,520
Hi, we're ispring, an 
international team of e-learning

504
00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:22,760
enthusiasts who help more than 
60,000 clients across the globe 

505
00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:24,920
succeed with better online 
learning. 

506
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:28,800
Our two flagship solutions are 
ispring Suite and ispring Learn 

507
00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:31,560
LMS. 
Ispring Suite is an intuitive, 

508
00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:34,280
all in one authoring tool for 
creating engaging e-learning 

509
00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:37,480
content, while ispringlearn is 
an innovative online training 

510
00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:40,480
platform for onboarding, 
upskilling and certifying your 

511
00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:42,640
teams. 
We'd be happy to get to know you

512
00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:44,640
and pick a solution that fits 
your needs best. 

513
00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:49,120
Go to www.ispringsolutions.com 
to learn more about us and 

514
00:27:49,120 --> 00:27:51,800
connect. 
Thanks for spending a few 

515
00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:54,120
minutes with Holly. 
She knows your podcast queue is 

516
00:27:54,120 --> 00:27:56,800
packed. 
If today's episode sparked an 

517
00:27:56,800 --> 00:28:00,960
idea or gave you that extra 
nudge of confidence, tap, follow

518
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:04,680
or subscribe in your favorite 
app so you never miss an episode

519
00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:07,920
of Ed Up L&D. 
Dropping a quick rating or 

520
00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:11,440
review helps more educators and 
learning pros discover the show,

521
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:13,400
too. 
Want to keep the conversation 

522
00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:15,680
going? 
Connect with Holly on LinkedIn 

523
00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:17,280
and share your biggest take 
away. 

524
00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:20,840
She reads every message. 
Until next time, keep learning, 

525
00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:23,480
keep leading, and keep believing
in your own story. 

526
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:24,440
Talk soon.