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Hi, we're ispring, an 
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Go to www.icepringsolutions.com 
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our resources, and connect. 
Welcome, welcome. 

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We are going to give you a few 
minutes to trickle in and feel 

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free to throw in the chat where 
you're coming from. 

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Nice and easy and it's it's 
lovely to hear, hear all the 

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different places that we're in. 
I'm in Maine and Holly, you're 

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down. 
You're down South. 

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Yes, I'm in Wilmington, NC. 
Oh, we got to Boston. 

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That's close Maryland, Portland,
OR I'm close to the other 

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Portland, which gets confusing 
you. 

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Know what's funny is in North 
Carolina, we have a 

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Jacksonville. 
When I first knew Tara was like,

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I'm like, that's in Florida and 
there's a Jacksonville. 

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I learned recently there's a 
Jacksonville, GA. 

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Is there really. 
Yeah, I should know about that. 

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In high school, I had to 
memorize all of the counties. 

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All right, So I think this is a 
good time to get started. 

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So, folks, thank you so much for
joining us. 

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Whether it's your afternoon or 
whether or not you're nibbling 

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on dinner while you while you 
listen to us, we appreciate your

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attendance. 
And I also really appreciate 

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Holly for joining us. 
I'm very much looking forward to

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this conversation. 
If you follow either of us, you 

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know, we often get together and 
have these little conversations,

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but usually Holly's interviewing
me and she always does something

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during these conversations. 
And I'm like, I want to know 

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more. 
I want to know more. 

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So this is the I want to know 
more. 

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And we're going to let Holly 
really take the stage here and 

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share everything that she knows 
about interviewing and learning 

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and development. 
And this is something that she's

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done over the course of her 
career, but it's also something 

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that she's done recently. 
So she's got some really great 

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insights into what's going on 
right now, not just in learning 

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development overall, because of 
course she runs a great podcast 

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and so forth and keeps up with 
the industry, but really what's 

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going on in the interview 
process specifically. 

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So I didn't introduce myself. 
If you don't know me, I am 

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Chelsea Averett and I'm the 
founder of Skip's job board. 

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And what I do is share jobs that
are in what I call education 

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adjacent fields or adjacent 
fields. 

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So education, instructional 
design, learning and 

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development, anything that's 
really looking for the skill set

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that we have of training or 
teaching other people. 

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And Holly is going to introduce 
herself and then we're going to 

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get started with some questions.
The way we'll run the session is

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I'll ask some questions. 
And if you guys want to hear any

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follow up as Holly is answering 
the questions, feel free to 

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throw it in the chat. 
I'll be monitoring the chat and 

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then we'll pull those questions 
up. 

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And then we'll also have some 
time for some questions from you

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guys at the end of the session 
as well. 

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So we're going to keep it pretty
fluid, a conversation between 

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Holly and me and also between 
you guys in the chat and all of 

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us. 
Let's see Holly, go ahead. 

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Hi everyone, I appreciate you 
joining me, You know, especially

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those on the East Coast. 
It's dinner time. 

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Thank you so much for coming on 
and Chelsea for inviting me on. 

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I really think this, this 
particular webinar lends itself 

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to being very discussion, focus,
active focus on the audience 

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because we want you to be able 
to ask questions that have been 

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in your head or you've just 
things you've experienced 

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recently like top of mind for 
you. 

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For those of you who don't know 
me, my name is Holly Owens. 

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I am currently a freelance 
instructional designer. 

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I have a couple different 
contracts that I've been working

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on, but I started my career out 
as a high school teacher, which 

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I know there are some of you in 
the audience who are looking to 

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be former teachers like myself. 
I did it before it was the cool 

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thing to do back in 2011. 
And then I moved into higher 

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education, instructional design,
instructional technology, which 

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eventually evolved into all 
instructional design. 

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Then I hopped into some 
corporate, went to Amazon. 

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And then I most recently I did, 
which is not really super 

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related, but it is related. 
I did some marketing director of

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marketing at Yellow Dick, which 
is an Ed tech company. 

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So every part of the sector you 
can think of I've probably been 

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a part of or I just, you know, 
I've worked somewhere closely 

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with someone who's a part, a 
part of every sector and 

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learning and development. 
And I was really excited when 

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Chelsea asked me to come and 
answer some of the, the point of

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questions that you have. 
And, you know, maybe alleviate, 

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maybe be a little bit of a 
therapist and alleviate some of 

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the stress or the anxiety that 
goes along with this whole 

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application process. 
And when it comes to especially 

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for those transition into 
different careers. 

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So I'm really excited to jump 
into all that. 

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Cool before we ask questions, do
you wanna talk a little bit 

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about you have a lot of 
resources for people and do you 

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wanna share some of those and 
I've got as we. 

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Yeah. 
So I've been doing some thinking

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about like how one of the things
I love to do is take the very 

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complex and break it down the 
simple pieces and the the one 

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that Chelsea shared is the 
unlock your LMD career. 

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I took. 
I used to have this very long 

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list of resources that was all 
about, you know, where to start,

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Blogs to follow, podcast books. 
And I took it and I just 

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organized into this nice little,
you know, like it looks kind of 

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like a PowerPoint presentation 
that you can go through and you 

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can click on what's pertinent to
you or what, where you're at in 

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the stage of the process. 
It's $5. 

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I'm not here to like make 
millions, just trying to make 

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some passive income because what
Chelsea and I really do is we, 

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we give back. 
There's also so that one's $5. 

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You can get updates for life. 
So, and I go in every couple 

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weeks I update it, you'll get a 
notification that I added 

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something to the list and that 
you know, you get access for 

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like, I mean $5.00 because $5 is
going to be like $15 in the next

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10 years probably. 
So grab that. 

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There's another one too. 
There's a free 1 specifically 

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designed because I love teachers
so much. 

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It's the top five instructional 
design interview questions. 

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And then this, this came from a 
present, a presentation I did 

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way back with ispring solutions.
And also I've done a couple 

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different ones that's free and 
it just talks you through. 

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And this is really important for
this session. 

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Different types of of B is 
pushing his bed. 

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Hold on one second. 
It has made a complete mess. 

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If I showed you what he has done
in the past five minutes, 

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there's fluff everywhere. 
That sounds about right, yeah. 

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So this particular resource, I 
was like, these are questions 

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that teachers ask me often or 
questions that I've encountered 

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along the way. 
And I'm like, you just need to 

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put this in the one thing that 
people can just download. 

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Again, it's free. 
I update it regularly. 

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And then there's one more, the 
Interview Pocket Guide. 

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This is something where it's not
just for necessarily L&D, it's 

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for any types of interviews 
you're going into, because I 

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know some of us aren't 
necessarily going into learning 

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development roles. 
You might be going into some of 

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these Ed adjacent things that 
Chelsea talked to, the marketing

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communications, product 
management, Ed tech, all that 

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stuff. 
So these are just questions that

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I see. 
I see a lot of like these are 

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the questions you might get 
asked, but I don't see these are

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the questions you should ask. 
So that particular resource has 

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questions you will probably be 
asked at the different stages, 

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which include like the initial 
interview, the group interview, 

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so many different rounds, and 
then questions you should be 

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asking during the process. 
Because you know when you're 

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interviewing, it's not just 
about the company, it's not just

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about getting a job, it's also 
figuring out if this is 

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somewhere where you want to be. 
So questions for you to ask that

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I think are important at every 
stage of the interview process. 

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Such good stuff. 
I love it. 

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And I'm going to do more too. 
I'm writing a book. 

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I'm, I'm definitely 100% going 
to have a book out by the 

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beginning of January is my goal.
It's like it's the title so far 

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what I have is it's not just one
thing like landing a role in 

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learning development, like the 
no BS guide, because there's a 

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lot of noise out there. 
And I just want to, I'm going to

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sift through all that and just 
give you a guide, which I'm 

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going to just put up as APDF and
then self publish later on so 

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that people can access it. 
But these are really these are 

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guys that have helped me. 
Excellent. 

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I'm Beth. 
I'm going to throw some of the 

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resources into the chat 
afterwards. 

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And one I want to follow up on 
the initial resource that Holly 

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was talking about. 
And actually, I'll share that 

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one on the screen, The resource 
guy. 

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Yeah, this one. 
It's highly worth your $5. 

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This is one that I use regularly
when I have, I'm doing a webinar

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or I just somebody asks me about
something, I'm like, oh, I know 

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where to find that information. 
Holly's already done it. 

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So this is, this is a really 
great way to just see what the 

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industry looks like and what all
of these resources are because 

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there are a lot of people who 
share free resources. 

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There are a lot of great books. 
There are a lot of great 

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webinars and so forth. 
And Holly, he knows all of them,

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so I highly recommend. 
It's really difficult for us as 

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we're trying to prepare for 
these interviews or the 

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applications to figure out like 
so many tabs open, too many 

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bookmarks like this. 
It has. 

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It's all there for you. 
Indeed. 

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And then I don't actually have 
the, I don't have the pocket 

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guide. 
I'm not going to. 

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Share that one. 
OK, Yeah. 

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So if you can share that one and
then I need to figure out how I 

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have these lovely little 
dropouts, but I don't actually 

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have the links. 
So I'll grab them while while 

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you're talking later. 
So Beth, they will, they will be

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popping into the chat as we have
a moment. 

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Let me pull that one out, 
Freddy. 

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I'm mad at you. 
He's like, we're all humans. 

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Like there's literally my puppy 
is my child. 

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He's just, he's a mess right now
because it was like his. 

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I don't know if anybody else 
experienced this. 

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You probably experienced this 
with your cats. 

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They have like a witching hour 
where they just. 

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Like all of. 
Them or they go crazy and they 

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tear stuff up. 
That's what he's doing right 

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now. 
What's his name? 

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Oh, that's Freddie. 
Freddie is his name. 

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Excellent. 
All right, so let's get started 

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with some questions. 
And as I said earlier, you guys 

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are welcome to throw in the chat
follow up questions that you 

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have and we'll just start to 
build a conversation. 

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So the first question I wanted 
to ask Holly was really a big 

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picture question because as she 
talked about earlier, she has 

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nearly 20 years of experience in
learning and development. 

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So corporate learning and 
development and also higher Ed 

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learning and development. 
And I'm wondering what changes 

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you've seen over time in how 
interviews have just been 

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conducted, What kinds of 
questions are being asked and 

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what the trends are? 
Yeah, I would say over time, 

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like when I was transitioning 
out of teaching into higher Ed, 

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there was, it was like a dime a 
dozen. 

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The finding the instructional 
technology or instructional 

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design jobs is really super 
difficult, but it wasn't as 

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competitive as it is nowadays. 
You know, we talked about this 

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on the podcast recently about 
the market being saturated and 

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you know, you were talking about
your thing of saturation 

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different ways. 
And I think of the different 

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ways too, is like it's just more
people who are qualified for the

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roles. 
Like people are very, you're 

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seeing my. 
I know. 

231
00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:44,400
I just texted them like I'm 
getting you can get it. 

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00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:47,720
Get the dog. 
That's stuff all over the floor.

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00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:58,040
But it's like you're competing 
with people who are on the same 

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00:12:58,040 --> 00:13:01,640
level as you or maybe, you know,
have more experience than you. 

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00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:05,560
There's not going to be this 
sort of situation where, you 

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know, I could apply for a role 
in higher education back in 2013

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00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:13,920
and I may or may not have all 
the experience, but they would 

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take a chance on me. 
That's not really happening 

239
00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:18,800
anymore. 
There aren't the like, I'm going

240
00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:21,800
to take a chance on Holly 
because I talked to her. 

241
00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:23,640
I've, I've, I've seen some of 
her work. 

242
00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:25,720
I think she can do it. 
You know, we're going to give 

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her time to, to upskill. 
We're going to give her that 

244
00:13:28,440 --> 00:13:32,120
time to, to be proficient. 
But seems like nowadays 

245
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everybody just wants you to 
just. 

246
00:13:33,640 --> 00:13:35,960
Start. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

247
00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:38,760
There's no, there's no training 
in learning and development. 

248
00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:44,160
Yeah, it's funny, isn't it's 
kind of kind of ironic, you 

249
00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:46,800
know, and that's actually as I'm
saying that that's one of the 

250
00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:50,200
questions I ask is how many 
months, how many days? 

251
00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:52,920
What is their their own boarding
plan look like their training 

252
00:13:52,920 --> 00:13:54,760
plan. 
So that's one question I would 

253
00:13:54,760 --> 00:13:58,000
encourage you to ask is like, 
what is the time to proficiency 

254
00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:00,760
for, you know, somebody like 
myself coming in, like I asked 

255
00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:03,600
that a recently an interview and
they said, well, you're going to

256
00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:06,320
shadow me for a couple weeks and
then we're just going to let you

257
00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:10,000
go and, and start the position 
because you have the experience,

258
00:14:10,280 --> 00:14:13,880
which is a good thing and a bad 
thing in the sense like 2 weeks 

259
00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:17,280
isn't a lot of time to kind of 
get familiar with the systems 

260
00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:21,520
and all the different things. 
But also too, if I'm shattering 

261
00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:24,840
a person who's already doing it,
I feel like that's very much, 

262
00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:27,840
you know, tied into like this is
what's really happening every 

263
00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:30,480
day in that role. 
But going back to the saturation

264
00:14:30,480 --> 00:14:32,960
thing, it's saturated in the 
sense that there's tons of 

265
00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:35,200
people who are qualified for the
roles. 

266
00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:41,600
So you have to stand out and I 
did a I guess episode about that

267
00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:45,040
recently. 
So one of the question, one of 

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00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:47,680
the conversations we're seeing 
in the chat is people talking 

269
00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:52,400
about how many more interviews 
the process takes outside of 

270
00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:54,520
education. 
Is that something that you're 

271
00:14:54,520 --> 00:14:58,040
seeing, we're seeing more 
interviews or has it been pretty

272
00:14:58,040 --> 00:15:01,960
consistent? 
I've seen, so I've seen, I've 

273
00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:04,760
actually seen more depending 
upon the level of competition 

274
00:15:04,760 --> 00:15:08,120
that's, you know, for the roles 
they get thousands of applicants

275
00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:09,800
and they get very well qualified
applicants. 

276
00:15:09,800 --> 00:15:11,800
They're going to put, it feels 
like they're going to put you 

277
00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:15,600
through more some rigorous 
things to do, you know, and I've

278
00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:19,200
also seen like it's more common 
nowadays for them to give you a 

279
00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:23,440
task related to the position to 
complete to make sure like, you 

280
00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:26,360
know, people, I'm not going to 
say people do this, but they 

281
00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:27,880
don't tell the truth all the 
time. 

282
00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:33,080
OK, So they want you to prove 
that you can do what you say you

283
00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:35,480
can do. 
So there may be a related task 

284
00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:38,520
that's kind of abbreviated in 
the sense that it's not a full 

285
00:15:38,520 --> 00:15:41,520
like instructional design 
project or it's just something 

286
00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:44,000
where your project management, 
all that stuff. 

287
00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:49,160
But I think it's, I think that 
people are really, they're 

288
00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:52,320
really getting frustrated, 
myself included, by the number 

289
00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:54,920
of rounds. 
And what I see this as is, is 

290
00:15:54,920 --> 00:15:58,520
that the company is fearful that
they're going to hire somebody 

291
00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:00,440
that is going to fit and it cost
them money. 

292
00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:02,640
Every time they hire somebody 
and then they leave, there's 

293
00:16:02,640 --> 00:16:05,160
high turnover there. 
So pay attention to those things

294
00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:07,160
too. 
Also, they just want to make, 

295
00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:09,600
they also want to make sure that
they're getting the right people

296
00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:13,480
in there so that they do stay. 
So it's kind of it's kind of a 

297
00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:15,280
double edged sword when you 
think about it. 

298
00:16:15,280 --> 00:16:19,600
I actually interviewed, I think 
it was about a year ago for a 

299
00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:22,880
company. 
I went through 6 rounds and I 

300
00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:25,880
was a finalist and they kept me 
on the hook because they had 

301
00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:30,920
somebody internally they wanted 
to hire and it was terrible. 

302
00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:34,840
I had to wait the whole weekend.
I emailed, I emailed the lady, 

303
00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:37,120
the recruiter. 
I said OK, so what's going on? 

304
00:16:38,120 --> 00:16:39,680
You know what, have they hired 
anybody yet? 

305
00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:41,560
What's the word? 
You know, I was emailing them 

306
00:16:41,560 --> 00:16:44,800
and asking them what was the 
status and she, it didn't 

307
00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:47,960
message me till Monday morning, 
which we all know that causes 

308
00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:50,600
anxiety in itself, the waiting 
period between the different 

309
00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:54,600
interviews. 
And then they're like, no, 

310
00:16:54,640 --> 00:16:56,680
somebody else. 
We hired somebody internally. 

311
00:16:57,080 --> 00:17:00,880
And that's another thing too to 
mention is that if you make it 

312
00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:03,240
through all these rounds and you
get to a point where it's like 

313
00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:06,560
you're one of three or, or 
whatever and you don't get the 

314
00:17:06,560 --> 00:17:09,599
role, they're probably hiring 
somebody internally. 

315
00:17:09,599 --> 00:17:11,680
It's not you, it's not you. 
It's them. 

316
00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:14,920
It really is. 
And once you get to that stage, 

317
00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:19,119
it can be so, so challenging to 
figure out who to hire because 

318
00:17:19,119 --> 00:17:21,560
everybody is so well qualified, 
so. 

319
00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:23,800
You. 
Have an internal, you at least 

320
00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:26,160
have some security there. 
But I think what you're pointing

321
00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:29,720
out, we, we, we talk a lot about
the anxiety that job seekers 

322
00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:33,120
face, but there's a lot of 
anxiety in the company side too,

323
00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:36,800
because it's kind of like dating
feels like a very big decision 

324
00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:39,040
for a lot of people. 
There are a couple of 

325
00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:41,440
interesting conversations going 
on in the chat. 

326
00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:44,560
Some of these we're going to get
to later, but I want to pull 

327
00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:48,600
out, pull out one topic because 
it's something I was thinking 

328
00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:51,360
about too. 
So I get a ton of questions and 

329
00:17:51,360 --> 00:17:55,880
I know you do too, about what 
presenting your portfolio looks 

330
00:17:55,880 --> 00:17:58,800
like during an interview. 
And we're also getting a lot of 

331
00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:04,120
questions around tasks 
specifically like are they done?

332
00:18:04,120 --> 00:18:06,160
Is it something you do 
beforehand or is it something 

333
00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:07,720
they're asking you to do on the 
spot? 

334
00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:10,560
So can you just kind of talk 
about some of the ways you're 

335
00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:14,880
seeing people ask you to prove 
what you can do are really 

336
00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:17,080
because they're also, as you 
said earlier, they're not just 

337
00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:19,240
assessing that you can do it, 
they're assessing that you're 

338
00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:21,680
the one who did it and they 
wanted sure. 

339
00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:25,120
How much of it did you do 
yourself versus AI versus your 

340
00:18:25,120 --> 00:18:26,560
colleagues? 
Right. 

341
00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:29,200
I think one of the things and 
I'm seeing what's going on in 

342
00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:31,440
chat is about the, the fear of 
like they're getting work for 

343
00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:34,080
free. 
And I make sure right off the 

344
00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:37,920
bat that if they tell me, good 
companies will tell you that 

345
00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:39,920
this task, this isn't going to 
be used anywhere. 

346
00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:43,040
This is simply used as part of 
the interview process and we 

347
00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:44,920
just want to evaluate your skill
set. 

348
00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:48,880
So I would ask that because I 
have far too many times where 

349
00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:51,680
people come back to me and they 
would say like coaching clients,

350
00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:54,080
Then they would say, well, they 
took my work. 

351
00:18:54,080 --> 00:18:59,200
I saw it a few months later, 
which I and I am baffled by 

352
00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:00,800
that. 
So because a lot of companies 

353
00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:03,520
make you sign an NBA and when 
you're interviewing or if you're

354
00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:05,400
you're getting past certain 
rounds because they're going to 

355
00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:08,480
be sharing more and more about 
the company with you, make sure 

356
00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:11,400
that just say that. 
And I love the fact that. 

357
00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:18,240
And she put, wait, Amy put 
watermarking, which I think is 

358
00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:20,840
important. 
Or you share it as a resource. 

359
00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:23,800
If you're sharing something out 
like a drag link, you make it 

360
00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:26,520
unavailable after that or you 
make it available for a certain 

361
00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:29,120
amount of time so that they 
don't have access to that 

362
00:19:29,120 --> 00:19:33,320
anymore or after the interview. 
So yeah, people are tricky. 

363
00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:36,520
But again, the good companies, 
and I do want to mention this, 

364
00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:38,840
Chelsea, because a lot of the 
companies and jobs you share, 

365
00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:41,600
they will tell you the whole 
process and they will lay it 

366
00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:45,600
out, apply for those jobs right 
away because that tells you 

367
00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:48,080
something about the company, of 
the culture of the company. 

368
00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:50,640
They have respect for the people
that they're hiring, their 

369
00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:52,480
employees. 
They want to make, they want to 

370
00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:55,200
set you up for success. 
They want you to know they're 

371
00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:57,480
not keeping any secrets. 
They're very transparent. 

372
00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:00,640
They want to know right away, 
once you know right away what 

373
00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:02,600
you're going to be in for if 
you're going through the 

374
00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:05,880
interview process. 
I've seen I've seen a lot more 

375
00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:10,040
of those things mentioned in job
descriptions lately than I have 

376
00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:13,240
in the past too. 
Yes, I think there's been a lot 

377
00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:17,080
more conversation around the the
candidate experience, 

378
00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:20,760
particularly when candidates are
just getting, they're applying 

379
00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:22,600
so frequently and not hearing 
back. 

380
00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:27,080
And so I think that that is 
having the an official back, the

381
00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:30,520
official impact of having 
recruiters and hiring managers 

382
00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:31,960
think how do we improve this 
process? 

383
00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:34,920
There's still a lot of work to 
be done, but that got those 

384
00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:37,840
great job descriptions are one 
way that I see it as well. 

385
00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:41,520
Absolutely. 
So let's kind of step back. 

386
00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:44,520
So you, let's just say I'm going
to interview you for a learning 

387
00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:47,960
development position. 
How do you start preparing for 

388
00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:52,440
this interview? 
Yeah, you have to find something

389
00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:54,760
that definitely makes you stand 
out. 

390
00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:57,880
And one of the things that I'll 
go back before you even get the 

391
00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:01,080
interview, one of the things I 
mentioned in a recent podcast 

392
00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:05,760
episode, I'm doing like this. 
Ask Holly segment now where I do

393
00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:09,280
15 minutes of like answering a 
question and I go very next 

394
00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:12,720
episode, I go deeper into it. 
So one of the even before you 

395
00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:15,240
get to the interview, one of the
things I said to stand out is 

396
00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:18,920
because we have this plethora of
like all these different 

397
00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:20,920
documents. 
We have portfolio, we have 

398
00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:25,280
professional references, we have
our resume, we have I don't know

399
00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:27,280
what whatever else you built the
website you there. 

400
00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:28,920
There's just tons of stuff for 
sharing. 

401
00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:33,320
But one of the things that 
everybody's sharing though, so 

402
00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:37,200
you're not, you're just sitting 
and I did a TikTok about this. 

403
00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:40,200
You're sitting in a pile of a 
pile of resumes. 

404
00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:44,120
But how does yours become the 
shining star or how do you stand

405
00:21:44,120 --> 00:21:45,440
out? 
So one of the things I'm like, 

406
00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:49,760
there's got to be something 
unique that you can do that 

407
00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:51,960
makes you stand out. 
And one of the, there's two 

408
00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:54,760
things I'll share. 
The first one is making a video 

409
00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:59,280
that you link to in your resume 
by yourself about what you've 

410
00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:01,800
done professionally about. 
You know, my whole world 

411
00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:03,280
revolves around learning and 
development. 

412
00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:05,680
I don't know about everybody 
else or for people already in 

413
00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:09,760
the position, but I drive past a
billboard or I go to a coffee 

414
00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:12,520
shop or I go to the local 
library. 

415
00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:15,120
And I'm like, how do all these 
processes work? 

416
00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:17,920
Like I think deeply about even 
going to a restaurant. 

417
00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:20,320
I think deeply about like, how 
does my work get from the 

418
00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:21,760
computer to the kitchen to the 
kitchen? 

419
00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:24,960
They know, you know, like, 
that's how my brain works. 

420
00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:29,120
So I would do a video about like
how learning development 

421
00:22:29,120 --> 00:22:32,080
encompasses my life, not saying 
is my life, but it it touches a 

422
00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:36,440
lot of different pieces. 
This makes you more human. 

423
00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:38,880
The resume is a very static 
document. 

424
00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:42,640
It's I'm like I'm reading your, 
you know, your journey. 

425
00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:44,320
It's great. 
You have a lot of experience, 

426
00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:47,640
but I don't I want to know more 
about you then. 

427
00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:50,000
So that's a good one. 
Keep it less than 3 minutes. 

428
00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:53,760
Do something quick. 
Throw a throw a prompt in a 

429
00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:57,480
ChatGPT. 
Get a quick script, don't make 

430
00:22:57,480 --> 00:23:01,920
it like it doesn't have to be 
Hollywood studio performance and

431
00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:03,160
then include that link in your 
resume. 

432
00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:06,600
Also, the next one, which is 
something I just started doing, 

433
00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:09,600
which I really, really love and 
I'm sharing all my secrets now 

434
00:23:10,120 --> 00:23:12,600
is I asked. 
So you know, on LinkedIn, we 

435
00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:16,480
have recommendations that people
can, you can type, type 

436
00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:18,760
recommendations for people. 
Ask for recommendations. 

437
00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:21,080
I'm like, you know what? 
Those are boring too. 

438
00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:24,560
Like I'm not going to read 
through like I know that you 

439
00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:28,600
know, such and such copy paste 
of this from chat GBTI know they

440
00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:30,800
mean that they're authentic 
about me, but I asked people who

441
00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:34,160
are my most my best references. 
I said, can you please record a 

442
00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:36,680
video? 
Here's the script and it's a 

443
00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:40,440
video recommendation about how 
they work with you, what they 

444
00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:43,240
think of you, you know, working 
together. 

445
00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:44,960
Obviously you're not going to 
pick people who are going to say

446
00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:46,240
something about it. 
You're going to pick people who 

447
00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:49,200
are going to be honest and 
genuine and talk about the work 

448
00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:51,720
that you've done. 
So those two things are going to

449
00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:55,520
make you stand out initially 
just before you even get the 

450
00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:57,800
interview. 
And then when you get into the 

451
00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:02,120
interview process, I think 
people, as far as prepping is 

452
00:24:02,120 --> 00:24:05,400
concerned, like the nerf start 
as soon as the interview is 

453
00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:07,440
scheduled. 
As soon as you schedule the 

454
00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:10,280
interview, you're like, Oh my 
God, I got, I got to practice, I

455
00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:11,680
got to study. 
It's like studying for the big 

456
00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:13,680
test. 
One of the things I like to do 

457
00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:17,200
is find the company page. 
I like to see if they have some 

458
00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:21,040
sort of strategic plan or they 
have like accessibility 

459
00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:24,560
information or if they, you 
know, there may be things you 

460
00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:27,480
can just tell right off the bat 
that there there's gaps there. 

461
00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:29,960
And I asked them a question 
about something that's on my 

462
00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:33,520
website. 
I prepare a question in advance 

463
00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:37,440
and I say I have seen your 
business plan, I have seen your 

464
00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:40,400
strategic plan. 
I have seen what you're learning

465
00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:42,760
in development team is thinking 
about doing in the next five 

466
00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:45,520
years. 
And I, I asked them a question 

467
00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:50,240
about that and they're like, 
like she's, you know, she's done

468
00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:53,920
her research, but that also too 
gives you an insider's 

469
00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:55,880
perspective into what's 
happening there. 

470
00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:59,280
And like, if they don't have a 
plan, do you want to work there?

471
00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:03,760
Especially like, you know, it 
gives you information too. 

472
00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:08,120
So I was saying prepping for the
interview, find something that 

473
00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:12,440
you know you can talk to and 
find common ground when you're 

474
00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:15,320
in the interview. 
But on the other side of that, I

475
00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:20,960
like to encourage people to be 
confident because you are 

476
00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:24,000
assessing that company in the 
interview just as much as 

477
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:27,440
they're assessing you. 
Like, I know we all want money. 

478
00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:30,080
I know we want to make millions.
If you want to make millions, 

479
00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:31,880
don't go on L&B because it's not
happening. 

480
00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:34,920
There's no sales going to sales,
right? 

481
00:25:36,120 --> 00:25:38,800
But we're doing this because we 
have some, some sort of passion 

482
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:41,440
about it. 
So really just make sure that 

483
00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:44,880
you are not putting all the 
responsibility. 

484
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:46,800
Like, I just need this job. 
I'm just going to take it 

485
00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:49,200
because far, far too many times.
And Chelsea, I know you've heard

486
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:52,480
these horror stories. 
People have taken the role and 

487
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:56,640
they hated it and then they were
jumping again because they just 

488
00:25:56,640 --> 00:26:00,320
took the role That was now don't
get me wrong, there's bridge 

489
00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:02,400
jobs. 
You know, there's things that 

490
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:05,840
you can do is you can have a job
for like one to two years, stuff

491
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:07,040
like that. 
But I want people to be 

492
00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:10,440
confident, like especially 
educators, because we come out 

493
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:12,800
of the classroom with all this 
trauma that we have to deal with

494
00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:14,960
before we even jump into 
something new. 

495
00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:18,640
So be confident of yourself and 
be like, like, what would you 

496
00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:21,880
ask somebody on a first date? 
Like, you know, I want to know 

497
00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:26,040
if they're like a crazy cat 
person not in Chelsea, you know,

498
00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:28,960
like I want to know, I want to 
know like, what are they see in 

499
00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:30,160
the future? 
You know, like, think of the 

500
00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:32,280
questions you ask somebody when 
you're on a first date. 

501
00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:35,360
It's different in your 20s than 
it is in your 40s. 

502
00:26:35,360 --> 00:26:38,120
And that's goes the same for 
like jobs too, because you're 

503
00:26:38,120 --> 00:26:40,360
looking for different things at 
those times in your life. 

504
00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:43,880
So confidence is key. 
Absolutely. 

505
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:48,920
One last thing I'll say is that 
I saw like some questions that 

506
00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:53,120
were coming in about the STAR 
method and like writing down 

507
00:26:53,120 --> 00:26:55,160
stuff and answering questions, 
and we'll get into that. 

508
00:26:55,160 --> 00:27:00,080
But I would just say think back 
in all of your roles and just 

509
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:04,800
have prep situations you've been
in and have those ready to go. 

510
00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:07,680
There's nothing that says you 
can't look off a piece of paper 

511
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:09,360
in an interview. 
There's nothing that says you 

512
00:27:09,360 --> 00:27:13,160
can't have it up on the screen 
as a prompt like I scripted out 

513
00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:14,480
for this particular 
presentation. 

514
00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:17,560
Just I have notes. 
So I just remember everything. 

515
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:20,400
So like certain situations on 
Amazon where I work with 

516
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:23,120
difficult SMEs, or I work with 
difficult faculty in higher 

517
00:27:23,120 --> 00:27:26,200
education or something I built 
from scratch or something. 

518
00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:28,960
I influenced something, you 
know, something that I changed 

519
00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:30,880
about a process. 
So have those ready to go. 

520
00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:32,040
Then you won't even have to 
think. 

521
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:34,760
Write down the keywords of the 
situation so that you just 

522
00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:36,880
remember it. 
Indeed. 

523
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:39,640
And I also, one of the things 
I'll, I'll kind of echo there is

524
00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:42,920
people get really stressed when 
something goes slightly wrong in

525
00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:48,040
an interview or they think I 
answered that question poorly. 

526
00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:51,560
I've interviewed people who have
bombed a single question, but 

527
00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:54,760
they've been fantastic 
everywhere else and they we pass

528
00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:59,320
them along because we're really 
focused on everything. 

529
00:27:59,360 --> 00:28:01,720
So I think a lot of times that 
confidence you were talking 

530
00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:05,600
about and being able to really 
relax and say I don't have to be

531
00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:09,160
perfect, I just have to be human
and really communicate myself. 

532
00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:13,560
That authenticity and that 
confidence gets you everywhere, 

533
00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:16,240
if I'm being honest, like we're 
just not nobody that works in 

534
00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:18,320
the company is perfect. 
Perfect doesn't exist. 

535
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:23,040
Like they're, they're absolutely
100% looking for the Unicorn. 

536
00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:27,840
And I'm like, if you have like 
50 to 60% of the qualifications,

537
00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:30,320
apply for the role. 
People are already deterred by 

538
00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:32,520
the fact that they're like, 
well, I don't have this or I 

539
00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:35,240
don't have that or I need to go 
and then learn articulate real 

540
00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:36,720
quick. 
No, that's not the case. 

541
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:39,120
You need to just apply anyway. 
Apply anyway. 

542
00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:42,480
Particularly because there's so 
much boilerplate and they're 

543
00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:45,440
like, you have to have it, but 
then the job is working with 

544
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:47,960
PowerPoint slides. 
Hey this is way beyond this is 

545
00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:52,840
like I got this, this is easy. 
Yeah, definitely trust the job 

546
00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:54,120
description, but don't believe 
it. 

547
00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:57,680
I ask the questions. 
You need to ask the questions. 

548
00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:01,160
Exactly. 
And this, I think a lot of this 

549
00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:05,760
is really geared towards doing 
your research and personalizing 

550
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:08,880
how you approach an interview 
for each company. 

551
00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:12,680
And it's a lot of work, but when
you get to the interview stage, 

552
00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:14,120
that means they think you're 
qualified. 

553
00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:17,640
You really want to show fit, you
want to show engagement, you 

554
00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:19,240
really want to differentiate 
yourself. 

555
00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:21,400
Exactly. 
That's how I started with. 

556
00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:24,600
So one of the things that I 
wanted to talk a little bit 

557
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:28,400
about is some of the differences
between corporate and university

558
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:31,000
interview processes. 
And the reason I wanted to talk 

559
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:35,040
about this is for those of you 
who are teachers, corporate or 

560
00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:38,520
sorry, corporate, higher Ed can 
often be a great bridge job to 

561
00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:42,880
get into corporate because a lot
of times the higher Ed, higher 

562
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:45,720
Ed companies, the higher Ed 
organizations are looking for 

563
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:48,040
people I'm. 
Not going to You're not wrong, 

564
00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:49,480
Kelsey. 
That's also true. 

565
00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:52,360
Yes, they're there. 
Yes, there's a lot of money in 

566
00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:55,560
there, but so these these higher
Ed companies are looking for 

567
00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:58,320
relevant skills, whereas the 
corporate is often looking for 

568
00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:00,800
the relevant skills and some 
business experience. 

569
00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:02,440
So can. 
You talk a little bit about. 

570
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:04,440
How your experience has been 
differently? 

571
00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:06,480
Yeah. 
So higher education, like you're

572
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:09,400
saying, is a great bridge into 
first somebody coming out of the

573
00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:12,560
classroom because higher 
education is built on pedagogy, 

574
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:15,480
adult learning theory like you, 
you know those things already. 

575
00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:18,480
You're aware of those different 
types of theories and 

576
00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:20,280
modalities. 
And it operates like when you're

577
00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:22,720
in a classroom, you're you're 
working with people in the 

578
00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:24,800
classroom. 
You're just not at the forefront

579
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:27,040
of the classroom. 
You're not the you're not the 

580
00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:28,880
teacher you're going to be 
working to support. 

581
00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:31,240
You're going to kind of be in 
the supporting role, like in a, 

582
00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:33,160
in a play like the backstage 
people. 

583
00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:36,440
So I would say with higher 
education and, and one thing I 

584
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:39,760
do want to be transparent about 
is notoriously higher education 

585
00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:42,800
salaries are lower than in a 
corporate LND space. 

586
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:47,760
So they're about 15 to 20,000 
lower, unfortunately, but 

587
00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:50,760
they're, they're significantly 
higher than teaching because 

588
00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:53,480
teaching does not teachers do 
not get paid, but they should be

589
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:55,480
paid in our culture, in our 
society. 

590
00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:58,120
So higher education, like I 
said, it is a good jumping off 

591
00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:01,320
point, but don't expect that 
you're going to be jumping like,

592
00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:05,960
you know, thousands of dollars 
in salary range, but it's a 

593
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:08,960
comfort area. 
So it's an area that, you know, 

594
00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:12,360
it's an area that you feel like 
you can grow in and you're going

595
00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:14,560
to work with other people who 
are former teachers. 

596
00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:17,000
You're going to be in a culture 
where people who have 

597
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:20,480
transitioned out of education 
just so you know that I don't 

598
00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:23,160
know anybody. 
I mean, I know it's about to 

599
00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:26,040
happen because of Gen. 
Z and like what's happening in 

600
00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:29,840
higher education and our 
industry and AII don't know 

601
00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:32,480
anybody that said I want to be 
an instructional designer when I

602
00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:34,920
grow up. 
That was their first job, I 

603
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:37,040
don't think. 
It existed it. 

604
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:39,200
Didn't exist. 
Yeah. 

605
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:43,400
So you're not going to meet 
people who say, I know, I've 

606
00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:45,880
known since I was in 8th grade. 
I wanted to be an instructional 

607
00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:47,760
designer. 
Not, not at this point, but 

608
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:50,960
maybe later on, because now 
there's bachelor's degrees in 

609
00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:53,520
instructional designs, which 
didn't previously exist. 

610
00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:56,240
So you're among people who are 
doing the same thing that you're

611
00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:57,880
doing that are making the 
transition. 

612
00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:02,000
Like I said, higher education is
a comfort zone. 

613
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:05,040
But I also want to caution you, 
I'm a cautionary tear of higher 

614
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:07,280
education. 
Just like K to 12. 

615
00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:10,200
It's got a lot of red tape. 
There's a lot of bureaucracy. 

616
00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:13,160
It moves notoriously slower than
corporate. 

617
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:15,280
There's a lot of hoops you have 
to jump through to get things 

618
00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:18,040
done. 
Innovation is often stagnated by

619
00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:20,400
that red tape. 
But like I said, you can make 

620
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:22,280
your own way. 
I always say, like when I get 

621
00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:24,960
into a role, I'm like, what can 
I do here that's different than 

622
00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:26,720
what everybody else has been 
doing? 

623
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:30,280
You know, whether that's 
improving A ticketing process or

624
00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:34,240
that's, you know, transitioning 
from one Ed tech to a different 

625
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:37,000
software for for the school and 
laying out the plan. 

626
00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:39,680
But higher education is 
definitely a comfort. 

627
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:42,480
And I would encourage you if you
don't feel like you're ready to 

628
00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:45,520
jump into corporate to go there 
first. 

629
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:48,760
Because higher education, while 
they are business, they're 

630
00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:51,960
focused on learning. 
They understand learning. 

631
00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:54,200
They understand what learning 
is. 

632
00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:58,440
Now corporate on the other hand,
do we want you want to pause for

633
00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:00,680
going to corporate? 
Let's see. 

634
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:02,720
Oh, the high level politics 
then. 

635
00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:04,200
Higher end. 
Yeah, huge. 

636
00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:09,040
Oh my word, huge like you. 
It's it's so interesting. 

637
00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:12,000
When I worked at UNBCI, ran for 
the faculty Senate. 

638
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:14,400
I had been there. 
I I'm an alum of there. 

639
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:18,960
I'm from Maryland and I was 
like, you know, I've been here a

640
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:21,040
couple years. 
I know a lot of different people

641
00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:22,680
across campus. 
I'm just I'm going to nail the 

642
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:24,160
seat. 
Didn't get it. 

643
00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:27,160
Didn't get it. 
Like it was like then a couple 

644
00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:29,040
weeks later the president 
emailed and he's like, somebody 

645
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:30,160
dropped out, but you're the next
one. 

646
00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:33,400
And I was like, it's very 
political and I just wanted to 

647
00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:36,880
be on the Senate. 
To like have a voice for my 

648
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:40,400
particular area of the 
institution is crazy political. 

649
00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:44,880
It's crazy cool. 
So one of the questions we had 

650
00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:48,080
earlier was really specific 
about whether you're hearing 

651
00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:51,680
anything hearing questions about
AI, but I wanted need to think 

652
00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:54,040
about that question. 
But also kind of in general, 

653
00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:56,560
what are the questions that 
you're hearing right now that 

654
00:33:56,560 --> 00:33:59,280
you think might surprise people 
or the thing might not really be

655
00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:02,080
preparing for? 
I think one of the things that 

656
00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:06,560
might surprise people is like 
how much AI is actually 

657
00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:09,040
impacting the position right 
now. 

658
00:34:09,159 --> 00:34:12,600
It's not impacting, it's a part 
of it, you know, like asking the

659
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:14,960
questions around, well, like how
do you use AI? 

660
00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:16,840
What is your, what is your 
intention? 

661
00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:21,360
Or have you ever built a policy 
for your L&D group around AI? 

662
00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:24,159
And what does that look like? 
I'm like, whoa, like I've never 

663
00:34:24,159 --> 00:34:27,840
built like a formal policy 
around, you know, like when you 

664
00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:29,360
think of a hire, they have tons 
of policies. 

665
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:33,719
Companies have policies, but 
just thinking about like this is

666
00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:38,280
what's going to be happening as 
AI continues to evolve and think

667
00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:40,880
about the things that are going 
to be impacting us as 

668
00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:43,400
instructional designers or LND 
professionals. 

669
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:47,800
And I think one of the things is
like sifting through what's the 

670
00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:52,600
truth as to what's the myth when
it comes to AI and how it's 

671
00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:56,320
going to impact these roles. 
So that's a question. 

672
00:34:56,320 --> 00:35:00,080
I was like, I've kind of talked 
about policy before, but I've 

673
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:04,680
never formally made something, 
you know, talking about data a 

674
00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:07,160
lot more. 
There's a lot more around data 

675
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:10,640
because in higher education and 
in corporate data is very 

676
00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:14,160
important to prove that the 
outcomes that you're trying to 

677
00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:16,200
reach are happening. 
So just like business schools 

678
00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:19,240
and corporate higher education 
has accreditation things. 

679
00:35:19,240 --> 00:35:22,040
So they have to kind of prove 
that I think data is a is a 

680
00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:25,400
surprising question to me too, 
because as an instructional 

681
00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:28,680
designer, the only data that 
I've ever looked at is like for 

682
00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:31,080
courses I've worked on or 
courses I was teaching. 

683
00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:35,120
But now you're looking at it 
across the whole organization or

684
00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:36,760
the whole institution. 
And then they're like, well, 

685
00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:40,360
what do you do with that data? 
What if the data is it's not 

686
00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:42,200
performing? 
Then they asked you, like 

687
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:45,240
somebody said something about 
the multi stage question, like 

688
00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:48,400
what do you do if the data is 
showing that you did the screen 

689
00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:50,280
experience and it's not working?
What do you do? 

690
00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:52,120
How do you shift? 
How do you pivot right away? 

691
00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:56,480
That that stuff makes me want to
cry because I'm like, how do you

692
00:35:56,480 --> 00:35:59,320
prepare for that? 
It's just, it's like, it's like 

693
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:01,480
you just, you know, you just 
have to take a deep breath and 

694
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:04,480
take, take one of those 
scenarios that you wrote down 

695
00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:07,960
and try to answer the question 
as best as you can. 

696
00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:13,040
But those ones intimidate me. 
They intimidate me for sure. 

697
00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:15,720
And they're getting there. 
They're just shifting. 

698
00:36:15,720 --> 00:36:17,920
It's not like, OK, well, tell us
about you. 

699
00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:19,680
Well, tell us about your 
experience. 

700
00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:21,720
Well, tell us, you know, let's 
go through your resume. 

701
00:36:21,720 --> 00:36:25,560
It's not like that anymore. 
And I know you've been on the 

702
00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:28,080
interview, you, you've 
interviewed people before too. 

703
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:31,880
And some of the questions that 
came in before our session were 

704
00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:34,920
around like what happens when 
you get faced with one of these 

705
00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:37,160
questions? 
But from the interview side, a 

706
00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:40,360
lot of times we're not looking 
for you to actually have the 

707
00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:42,000
answer. 
We don't necessarily. 

708
00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:45,440
You may not have written an AI 
policy, but we want to see how 

709
00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:49,160
you think what is what is the 
way you approach that and 

710
00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:52,240
unfamiliar scenario? 
What is the way you approach 

711
00:36:52,240 --> 00:36:54,920
policy development? 
And so a lot of times if you 

712
00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:59,680
can't answer the civic question,
really turn it into thinking 

713
00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:03,240
about your process and talking 
about what what you do that's 

714
00:37:03,240 --> 00:37:05,840
similar. 
Because if you're pivoting, 

715
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:09,680
people know you're pivoting and 
they're going to be they're not 

716
00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:11,840
necessarily going to be 
expecting you to answer the 

717
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:15,760
question the same way that to 
people who have already worked 

718
00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:20,120
in the field answered it. 
So one of the things I think is 

719
00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:22,080
most of the time the interviewer
is on your side. 

720
00:37:22,240 --> 00:37:24,920
They're not going to have called
you in unless they're actually 

721
00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:26,680
really interested in hearing 
from you. 

722
00:37:27,240 --> 00:37:29,080
Exactly. 
You're exactly right. 

723
00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:32,240
And you know, I think we put too
much weight behind this, this 

724
00:37:32,240 --> 00:37:34,480
whole process. 
And that's what really does 

725
00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:36,240
stress us out about especially 
teachers there. 

726
00:37:36,240 --> 00:37:38,240
I know there's a lot of 
educators in the room and you're

727
00:37:38,240 --> 00:37:42,320
like, I can't tell you how many 
teachers I've come across and 

728
00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:44,200
they're like, well, I'm not 
going to include my teaching 

729
00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:46,520
experience on my resume. 
I'm like, why? 

730
00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:49,920
Well, obviously we've seen some 
companies names that remain 

731
00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:53,120
unmentioned, but like we, we 
don't hire former educators 

732
00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:56,880
versus stupid on their part. 
But it's like you're thinking 

733
00:37:56,880 --> 00:38:00,360
about it in a way like, Oh my 
God, that, you know, like I've 

734
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:01,800
been in the classroom for 20 
years. 

735
00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:04,240
This is all I've ever known. 
Like, and now I'm going to step 

736
00:38:04,240 --> 00:38:07,080
into something new. 
It's definitely, it's definitely

737
00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:09,600
a transition and there's a lot 
of different things you have to 

738
00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:11,840
go through to deal with that 
transition. 

739
00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:13,880
But look what you did for 20 
years. 

740
00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:16,040
Look what you did for 10 years. 
Why wouldn't you honor that 

741
00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:18,160
experience on your resume? 
Why don't you honor that 

742
00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:22,480
experience in talking about the 
processes that you did in the 

743
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:24,120
classroom? 
Like listen, planning, unit 

744
00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:27,760
planning, creating assessments, 
activities like, you know, 

745
00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:30,120
dealing with the students and 
classroom management, like 

746
00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:34,240
project management is a part of 
part of all that data you had 

747
00:38:34,240 --> 00:38:35,680
grading. 
That's data. 

748
00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:37,720
So thinking about all those 
different things. 

749
00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:41,760
So there's been an interesting 
conversation going on that I've 

750
00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:45,320
been partially following, and 
it's a good question that I 

751
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:47,800
don't have a great answer for, 
so I'm going to throw it on to 

752
00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:52,000
you. 
So one of the things I hear a 

753
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:56,640
lot of times from people who are
a little bit older than me, So 

754
00:38:56,720 --> 00:39:00,440
Full disclosure, I'm in my mid 
40s and I'm really thrilled to 

755
00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:03,240
have 20 years of experience 
because I'm like, yes, hi, I'm 

756
00:39:03,240 --> 00:39:06,960
now finally. 
But then we get people who are, 

757
00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:09,720
you know, they have an extra 10 
years of experience and they 

758
00:39:09,720 --> 00:39:13,080
start to really get nervous 
about the job discrimination. 

759
00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:15,640
There was the work day lawsuit 
where they were actually 

760
00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:19,560
blocking people who were certain
age, which is appalling. 

761
00:39:19,600 --> 00:39:21,520
And I can't wait for the 
discovery. 

762
00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:25,240
We're going to find so much out.
But from from a practical 

763
00:39:25,240 --> 00:39:27,800
standpoint, the more experience 
you have, you're really bringing

764
00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:30,400
in a lot of knowledge, knowledge
and expertise. 

765
00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:32,880
But the question is, is there 
that bias? 

766
00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:36,480
And if there is that bias, what 
are some strategies people can 

767
00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:39,240
use to combat it? 
Yeah, don't apply for entry 

768
00:39:39,240 --> 00:39:40,720
level stuff. 
That's one. 

769
00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:44,080
They're gonna be really biased 
towards you if you're applying 

770
00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:45,960
for entry level. 
So cuz you're not entry level, 

771
00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:48,360
they're just going to. 
It's not going to have anything 

772
00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:49,720
to do with age. 
It's going to have to do with 

773
00:39:49,720 --> 00:39:52,000
your experience. 
I mean which can be correlated 

774
00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:54,360
with age, but don't apply for 
entry level stuff. 

775
00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:56,760
I tell people coming out of 
classroom when you have so many 

776
00:39:56,760 --> 00:40:00,320
years experience like you are 
definitely mid to higher. 

777
00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:03,840
You're in the mid, the higher 
range, and you should be looking

778
00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:05,800
for roles. 
You should be looking for 

779
00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:08,320
leadership roles. 
You should be looking for roles 

780
00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:11,240
that are like have senior in the
title or director in the title. 

781
00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:13,360
You know, and I, I know people 
are going to say, but I don't 

782
00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:15,480
have any experience in 
instructional design, but there 

783
00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:19,200
are things that you can do to 
prepare yourself for these 

784
00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:21,800
positions, like using some of 
the resources I share. 

785
00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:24,840
We're just talking to people 
like in in the roles. 

786
00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:27,160
I would just secure you from 
applying to entry level roles 

787
00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:31,560
thinking that you have to start 
over because I think people like

788
00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:34,000
if I apply for an entry level 
role, people will probably I 

789
00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:35,560
would, I would expect them to 
laugh right now. 

790
00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:37,720
I would expect them to be like, 
I don't understand why she did 

791
00:40:37,720 --> 00:40:39,320
this. 
She must be really desperate for

792
00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:41,120
something. 
But again, it goes back to 

793
00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:44,760
honoring that experience. 
And I've had plenty of people, 

794
00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:46,960
sorry, my voice is kind of 
getting after the work day. 

795
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:50,440
I've had plenty of people tell 
me that they found great 

796
00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:52,400
companies, some of these smaller
companies, the ones that you 

797
00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:56,000
post about Chelsea that have 
honored their teaching 

798
00:40:56,000 --> 00:41:00,560
experience and use their 
experience there to propel them 

799
00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:02,840
into these leadership roles. 
So maybe you don't start as a 

800
00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:06,120
senior, but you might start in a
mid level position and then like

801
00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:08,280
a year later you're in that 
director role because you've 

802
00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:11,560
learned things. 
Yeah, a lot. 

803
00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:14,000
So if you don't want to manage 
people like a senior 

804
00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:16,200
instructional designer, you may 
or may not be managing 

805
00:41:16,200 --> 00:41:20,520
instructional designers. 
But if you don't want to manage 

806
00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:23,120
people, then you're going to 
limit yourself to just like the,

807
00:41:23,160 --> 00:41:28,760
the mid roles that require no 
supervision or manager 

808
00:41:28,760 --> 00:41:32,040
experience, which I totally get.
Managing is a lot like you're 

809
00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:34,080
just managing people. 
You're managing people all day 

810
00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:36,120
long and like you can't get any 
of your work done. 

811
00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:39,680
I I totally get that. 
But you can find stuff that's, 

812
00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:44,080
you know, you've had a few roles
out there on on Skip that have 

813
00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:46,800
been like director of 
professional services, I think 

814
00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:50,360
was one of them. 
And I posted a director level 

815
00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:52,640
rule today that I'm pretty sure 
didn't have management. 

816
00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:53,160
Experience. 
Yeah. 

817
00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:57,400
Like, like they don't, it's kind
of like being like ACEO, like a 

818
00:41:57,400 --> 00:42:01,200
CIO, like a chief academic, like
you're in a very top level 

819
00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:03,000
position. 
You're not necessarily C-Suite, 

820
00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:06,560
but you're, you're above to 
where you have people who are 

821
00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:09,040
doing the managing. 
You're just kind of delegating 

822
00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:11,800
and you're paying attention more
to what's happened at the top. 

823
00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:14,280
And then you're sharing that 
information out with the rest of

824
00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:16,200
the people that are working with
you. 

825
00:42:16,320 --> 00:42:20,240
But yeah, there, there are some 
roles where you can be at the 

826
00:42:20,240 --> 00:42:23,400
top level and you're not 
managing people. 

827
00:42:23,560 --> 00:42:24,720
You're gonna have to interact 
with people. 

828
00:42:24,720 --> 00:42:26,120
I'm not gonna lie. 
You're not gonna be a hermit. 

829
00:42:26,240 --> 00:42:29,280
We're not an IT. 
We're not gonna be a hermit 

830
00:42:29,280 --> 00:42:30,720
center. 
It's sitting behind the 

831
00:42:30,720 --> 00:42:32,080
computer. 
You're gonna have to work with 

832
00:42:32,080 --> 00:42:33,440
people. 
But I got away from that 

833
00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:35,600
question a little bit. 
It's more like what was the 

834
00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:37,360
initial question. 
Yeah. 

835
00:42:38,280 --> 00:42:40,200
Well, I think we covered it 
well. 

836
00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:44,760
We were initially talking about 
the whether people like age 

837
00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:48,480
discrimination, but I love that 
advice to not apply for entry 

838
00:42:48,480 --> 00:42:53,000
level roles because a lot of 
times we get focused on the job 

839
00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:57,320
description saying tech skills. 
But I noticed a lot of the roles

840
00:42:57,320 --> 00:42:59,720
I post actually frame it a 
little differently. 

841
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:04,240
They will say looking for adult 
learning experience and that's a

842
00:43:04,240 --> 00:43:06,640
real clue. 
But that's a great job for you 

843
00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:10,400
to apply for. 
So I would definitely, yes, 

844
00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:11,920
there's definitely age 
discrimination. 

845
00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:14,280
There's no way we can say there 
isn't. 

846
00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:17,360
But also don't sell yourself 
short. 

847
00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:21,000
I love how you're saying value 
your experience because. 

848
00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:24,640
There's a, there's a, there's a 
whole episode I did on, on where

849
00:43:24,640 --> 00:43:27,680
I did it by myself because I 
was, I was feeling like you'll 

850
00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:29,880
notice that I'm kind of like 
Taylor Swift. 

851
00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:32,480
Like when I'm feeling something,
I'm doing a podcast episode 

852
00:43:32,480 --> 00:43:33,960
about it. 
I'm writing about it. 

853
00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:37,600
I'm like, so I did an episode 
recently where knowing your 

854
00:43:37,600 --> 00:43:41,200
worth and your value, because 
oftentimes times, and I will say

855
00:43:41,200 --> 00:43:44,000
this to former teachers, we sell
our shelves short because we 

856
00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:47,600
think we don't deserve it when 
we actually do, you know, like 

857
00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:51,520
especially being a woman in this
industry, being somebody who's 

858
00:43:51,520 --> 00:43:55,080
worked in corporate with Amazon 
with I think one time I, I 

859
00:43:55,080 --> 00:43:56,760
looked at our leadership, it was
all male. 

860
00:43:56,760 --> 00:43:58,000
I was like, what is going on 
here? 

861
00:43:58,040 --> 00:43:59,840
Like we need a, we need a gallon
here. 

862
00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:02,000
You know, we need somebody else,
somebody different, some 

863
00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:08,760
diversity, but I knowing your 
worth is something that comes 

864
00:44:08,760 --> 00:44:11,480
with like moving away from the 
imposter rendrum. 

865
00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:13,280
You're going to have it. 
It's not going to go away 

866
00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:16,800
completely, but knowing that you
need this salary to beat 

867
00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:19,200
survive. 
You need to put away some from 

868
00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:22,160
retirement to sustain your 
current lifestyles. 

869
00:44:22,720 --> 00:44:25,440
Like the confidence is key. 
And I think that's one of the 

870
00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:27,080
things that resonates with 
people is like, I'm very 

871
00:44:27,080 --> 00:44:33,640
confident on the screen too. 
Like I have applied, like people

872
00:44:33,640 --> 00:44:35,840
say, I've applied to hundreds 
and hundreds of jobs and I've, 

873
00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:39,840
I've, I've done that too in 
recent months and I have gotten,

874
00:44:40,320 --> 00:44:43,800
I was like everybody does. 
I know this role is for me. 

875
00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:46,560
Like I'm going to get this role 
because I have all the 

876
00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:48,240
experience necessary. 
And guess what? 

877
00:44:48,600 --> 00:44:51,080
I got a rejection e-mail within 
30 minutes. 

878
00:44:51,520 --> 00:44:55,760
I know it's an ATS system, but 
confidence and knowing your 

879
00:44:55,760 --> 00:44:59,040
worth, please don't, please 
don't sell yourself short 

880
00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:02,000
because we don't, don't get to 
do this again. 

881
00:45:02,080 --> 00:45:05,160
We don't get to like, I don't 
want you having to jump into a 

882
00:45:05,160 --> 00:45:07,200
rule that you don't like or 
you're not getting paid enough 

883
00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:09,920
and then you're like, oh, I have
to find a second job or most of 

884
00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:12,800
us do have different side 
hustles and things like that. 

885
00:45:14,640 --> 00:45:17,840
And I think that one of the 
things that I think I'm kind of 

886
00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:21,760
following the conversation here,
we often think hiring managers 

887
00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:25,360
don't understand that because 
we're not getting interviews. 

888
00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:28,440
Going back to something Holly 
was talking about earlier on, 

889
00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:32,800
when you're any time you're 
interviewing people, you've got 

890
00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:37,280
about 50% of the people who 
apply who are halfway qualified 

891
00:45:37,280 --> 00:45:40,160
for the position. 
So a lot of times they're not 

892
00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:44,160
making the decision about, oh, 
this person has teaching 

893
00:45:44,160 --> 00:45:45,560
experience, I don't want to hire
them. 

894
00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:50,080
They're making the decision of 
I've got 5 people who have this 

895
00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:53,080
experience that I listed as a 
preferred experience, so I'm 

896
00:45:53,080 --> 00:45:56,240
going to start with them. 
So one of the things with 

897
00:45:56,240 --> 00:45:58,600
imposter syndrome, don't say 
just because I'm not getting 

898
00:45:58,600 --> 00:46:01,840
results, it means that I'm 
applying to the wrong jobs. 

899
00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:05,480
Keep up on until a lot of those 
stretch jobs because you're 

900
00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:07,920
going to find the right 1. 
And I think Holly's advice to 

901
00:46:07,920 --> 00:46:11,520
focus on the smaller companies 
spot on. 

902
00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:14,360
I was talking to someone, she 
was a teacher a couple of years 

903
00:46:14,360 --> 00:46:17,000
ago. 
Now she's sales director and 

904
00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:20,040
she, you know what she's doing, 
She's saving roles for teachers.

905
00:46:20,240 --> 00:46:22,840
She's like, this role is only 
for teachers. 

906
00:46:23,440 --> 00:46:27,440
So there are a lot of people in 
the industry who are trying to 

907
00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:29,560
help people transition as well, 
so. 

908
00:46:29,960 --> 00:46:32,640
We're all in. 
We want, we want more of us in 

909
00:46:32,640 --> 00:46:35,960
here because it's making the 
sector better, whether that's 

910
00:46:35,960 --> 00:46:39,800
corporate, higher education, 
government, like you're here. 

911
00:46:39,800 --> 00:46:42,280
We want to bring other tiers on 
who are ready for something 

912
00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:45,680
different, but still make a 
change because teachers have, 

913
00:46:45,720 --> 00:46:48,560
they have this crazy, I don't 
know, it's kind of like nurses 

914
00:46:48,560 --> 00:46:50,880
like you do the show because you
have something innate in you 

915
00:46:50,880 --> 00:46:54,800
that teaching gives you and that
you want to give back and you 

916
00:46:54,800 --> 00:46:57,840
don't expect anything in return.
And that's kind of like what LND

917
00:46:57,840 --> 00:47:00,080
is. 
Yes, I agree. 

918
00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:03,120
And one of the things I found, 
and that we're seeing it in this

919
00:47:03,120 --> 00:47:06,200
chat too, learning and 
development, is we are the kind 

920
00:47:06,200 --> 00:47:09,120
of people we get together and 
somebody says, oh, I'm looking 

921
00:47:09,120 --> 00:47:11,120
at this and they're like, oh, I 
can help you with that. 

922
00:47:11,120 --> 00:47:13,040
And yeah, you get all these 
resources. 

923
00:47:13,080 --> 00:47:14,280
And it's really a beautiful 
thing. 

924
00:47:14,280 --> 00:47:16,320
Like I can't even keep up with 
the entire job. 

925
00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:21,360
So it's wonderful. 
So we are running into a little 

926
00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:25,840
bit of the end of this session. 
So what I really do is ask you 

927
00:47:25,840 --> 00:47:29,720
one final question and then if 
there are some burning 

928
00:47:29,720 --> 00:47:32,080
questions, we haven't gotten to 
you because again, I've I've 

929
00:47:32,080 --> 00:47:33,760
definitely missed some things in
the chat. 

930
00:47:33,880 --> 00:47:36,560
Throw a couple of burning 
questions and and we'll try to 

931
00:47:36,560 --> 00:47:39,560
get at least one or two of them.
Yeah, I I noticed one right 

932
00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:40,840
away. 
I just want to point out the 

933
00:47:40,840 --> 00:47:42,760
recruiters and the hiring 
managers. 

934
00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:45,960
The recruiters don't necessarily
know instructional designer 

935
00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:47,560
learning and development. 
Most of the recruiters you're 

936
00:47:47,560 --> 00:47:49,560
dealing with are just 
recruiters. 

937
00:47:50,160 --> 00:47:52,560
So don't think they know about 
learning development. 

938
00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:54,400
OK. 
So don't assume that we have 

939
00:47:54,400 --> 00:47:56,320
like they know anything about 
the role or what you're going to

940
00:47:56,320 --> 00:47:59,160
be doing. 
And you know, we can talk about 

941
00:47:59,160 --> 00:48:01,360
recruiters another time, but 
there's some good ones and 

942
00:48:01,440 --> 00:48:03,960
there's some bad ones, just like
going on dates and stuff. 

943
00:48:04,360 --> 00:48:07,440
But don't put all your like all 
the recruiters going to, you 

944
00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:10,000
know, the recruiter is like the 
key to everything. 

945
00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:12,400
No, it's going to be you. 
So I just want to mention that. 

946
00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:14,640
Yeah, and recruiters are 
screening. 

947
00:48:14,720 --> 00:48:18,400
So what that means you want to 
be able to say, oh, you're 

948
00:48:18,400 --> 00:48:21,080
asking a question about my adult
learning experience. 

949
00:48:21,080 --> 00:48:23,200
Let me tell you about my adult 
learning experience. 

950
00:48:23,320 --> 00:48:26,000
Right now it's very 
transactional, yes. 

951
00:48:26,040 --> 00:48:29,640
So the question that I really 
want to ask is I have been 

952
00:48:29,640 --> 00:48:32,040
hearing a lot of really bad 
stats lately. 

953
00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:35,840
And one of them is that 70% of 
people get jobs through 

954
00:48:35,840 --> 00:48:40,560
networking. 
And I, I, I question the 70%, 

955
00:48:40,880 --> 00:48:44,240
but I also think some of it, 
yeah, some of it is like, what 

956
00:48:44,240 --> 00:48:46,760
are we defined as networking? 
So the reason I wanted to ask 

957
00:48:46,760 --> 00:48:49,920
you this question, Holly, is 
that you have this extensive 

958
00:48:49,920 --> 00:48:51,840
network. 
So you know everybody in the 

959
00:48:51,840 --> 00:48:54,960
industry and you have this 
fantastic learning and 

960
00:48:54,960 --> 00:48:58,760
development podcast. 
Everyone is listening to you and

961
00:48:58,800 --> 00:49:01,440
you have a huge network. 
You also have like 50,000 

962
00:49:01,440 --> 00:49:04,520
LinkedIn dollars. 
So I'm curious whether or not 

963
00:49:04,720 --> 00:49:08,040
for you you're thinking, yes, 
networking is how I get a job, 

964
00:49:08,200 --> 00:49:10,760
but it sounds like you're still 
applying to jobs just like 

965
00:49:10,760 --> 00:49:13,800
everybody else. 
So tired about how networking 

966
00:49:13,800 --> 00:49:15,000
how you approach. 
Networking. 

967
00:49:15,280 --> 00:49:19,920
First of all, I want to say that
that network was built Bloods 1 

968
00:49:19,920 --> 00:49:23,160
tiers 50 to 50,000 over the past
five years. 

969
00:49:24,200 --> 00:49:26,960
There is no is not easy to 
network. 

970
00:49:27,240 --> 00:49:32,960
However, when I think about like
this whole process is like we're

971
00:49:32,960 --> 00:49:35,600
all human. 
We all have to connect with each

972
00:49:35,600 --> 00:49:38,240
other and know different things 
and know different people. 

973
00:49:38,560 --> 00:49:42,480
And the one thing to me that 
hasn't changed in any sector 

974
00:49:43,240 --> 00:49:45,920
through the application process 
or looking for roles or 

975
00:49:45,920 --> 00:49:49,560
different things is that you 
have to know somebody to know 

976
00:49:49,560 --> 00:49:51,880
somebody. 
That is a thing now. 

977
00:49:51,920 --> 00:49:56,000
I don't think it's 70%. 
I can't say that for sure. 

978
00:49:56,840 --> 00:49:58,960
I think it might be a little bit
less than that. 

979
00:50:00,360 --> 00:50:05,200
But I will say that if you know 
people, there are things, think 

980
00:50:05,200 --> 00:50:06,880
of it like this, This is how I 
think of it. 

981
00:50:07,280 --> 00:50:10,120
Like think of Zillow, like the 
real estate platform. 

982
00:50:10,440 --> 00:50:13,360
There are houses that are pre 
market that you don't even see 

983
00:50:13,360 --> 00:50:16,760
come onto the market. 
So there's pre market jobs. 

984
00:50:16,760 --> 00:50:19,960
Like I had somebody post 
something in a group that they 

985
00:50:19,960 --> 00:50:23,480
hadn't posted on LinkedIn yet 
looking for contract IDs. 

986
00:50:23,880 --> 00:50:25,240
So there are those types of 
things. 

987
00:50:25,240 --> 00:50:30,040
So you want to know where to be 
to get those get into those 

988
00:50:30,040 --> 00:50:32,720
situations. 
I'm not saying that's the only 

989
00:50:32,720 --> 00:50:35,400
way to get the jobs. 
And then you of course, you have

990
00:50:35,400 --> 00:50:37,640
the houses that are for sale, 
the jobs that are like 

991
00:50:37,680 --> 00:50:39,640
everybody, like what's on 
Chelsea site, what's on 

992
00:50:39,640 --> 00:50:41,520
LinkedIn, what's on on deed or 
whatever. 

993
00:50:41,880 --> 00:50:44,400
You know, whoever you follow out
on LinkedIn world that does the 

994
00:50:44,400 --> 00:50:47,280
job posting and like you see all
the different ones and every 

995
00:50:47,400 --> 00:50:49,120
those are all up for grabs for 
everybody. 

996
00:50:50,320 --> 00:50:53,560
But also too through networking 
and having conversations with 

997
00:50:53,560 --> 00:50:56,520
people. 
I had somebody tell me recently 

998
00:50:56,520 --> 00:51:00,880
they said there's going to be an
upcoming like role, you know, 

999
00:51:01,040 --> 00:51:03,440
you know, be on the lookout like
I'm saying that pre sales stuff,

1000
00:51:04,520 --> 00:51:07,760
you know, would you be 
interested and possibly applying

1001
00:51:07,760 --> 00:51:10,280
for the job? 
So if you've worked in previous 

1002
00:51:10,280 --> 00:51:13,520
positions that might have like 
an L&D feel or touch, I could go

1003
00:51:13,520 --> 00:51:16,520
back to those people and be 
like, has anything opened Or do 

1004
00:51:16,520 --> 00:51:20,960
you think is there a possibility
that I can do some contract work

1005
00:51:20,960 --> 00:51:23,640
with you all? 
Because it doesn't just come 

1006
00:51:23,640 --> 00:51:26,120
through like knowing the person.
And Chelsea and I were talking 

1007
00:51:26,120 --> 00:51:29,480
about this previously before we 
started the session about coffee

1008
00:51:29,480 --> 00:51:31,600
chats. 
I don't know how I feel about 

1009
00:51:31,600 --> 00:51:33,320
coffee chats. 
People ask me for coffee chats 

1010
00:51:33,320 --> 00:51:34,960
all the time. 
I started my networking out 

1011
00:51:34,960 --> 00:51:36,400
doing that and it worked really 
well. 

1012
00:51:36,400 --> 00:51:39,280
But now it feels like something 
that's transactional and people 

1013
00:51:39,280 --> 00:51:44,200
just, they either keep asking 
for more free stuff or they 

1014
00:51:44,200 --> 00:51:47,560
ghost me, or they're not really.
They don't really read my 

1015
00:51:47,560 --> 00:51:50,840
LinkedIn or they don't know me. 
And that's the thing too, when 

1016
00:51:50,840 --> 00:51:55,000
you're networking, you should 
definitely do some research from

1017
00:51:55,000 --> 00:51:56,720
the person. 
I've had people come in and 

1018
00:51:56,720 --> 00:52:00,200
think that like I worked before 
I even worked in marketing, that

1019
00:52:00,200 --> 00:52:02,640
I was a marketer and I'm like 
no, did you or that you're 

1020
00:52:02,640 --> 00:52:06,120
hiring or that I'm hiring? 
Yes, or that I'm hiring yeah. 

1021
00:52:07,560 --> 00:52:09,400
Or that I have some tie to these
roles. 

1022
00:52:11,200 --> 00:52:13,600
So I think networking is 
important for you. 

1023
00:52:15,080 --> 00:52:18,000
Linkedin's got a lot getting a 
lot of bad, getting a bad 

1024
00:52:18,000 --> 00:52:21,080
reputation lately. 
I don't know why L and DI don't 

1025
00:52:21,080 --> 00:52:23,400
feel like we're there, but maybe
in other sectors you are. 

1026
00:52:23,400 --> 00:52:26,040
So you definitely need to know 
somebody that knows somebody 

1027
00:52:26,040 --> 00:52:30,720
because we're so giving and we 
share so much information with 

1028
00:52:30,720 --> 00:52:33,600
each other that there's going to
be a job where you're going to 

1029
00:52:33,600 --> 00:52:36,480
be like there haven't been 1000 
people that apply to it. 

1030
00:52:37,080 --> 00:52:39,600
It's just going to be a small 
company that uses a Google form 

1031
00:52:40,160 --> 00:52:42,840
to express your interest or to 
apply for the role. 

1032
00:52:43,480 --> 00:52:45,640
So that's my take. 
Yeah. 

1033
00:52:45,640 --> 00:52:47,400
And I think I agree with a lot 
of that. 

1034
00:52:47,400 --> 00:52:49,600
I think we can also think about 
networking. 

1035
00:52:49,680 --> 00:52:52,040
Somebody was talking a little 
bit about this, the cold, the 

1036
00:52:52,040 --> 00:52:54,680
cold messaging. 
A lot of times creating a 

1037
00:52:54,680 --> 00:52:59,000
conversation in the the comments
can really be format networking.

1038
00:52:59,840 --> 00:53:01,880
And then you know, you build 
relationships. 

1039
00:53:01,880 --> 00:53:04,240
Like actually, I think that's 
probably how we started chatting

1040
00:53:04,240 --> 00:53:05,840
and then we started chatting in 
person. 

1041
00:53:05,840 --> 00:53:08,680
So thinking about networking not
as this big task. 

1042
00:53:08,800 --> 00:53:10,600
I don't have to have a 20 minute
coffee chat. 

1043
00:53:10,840 --> 00:53:12,240
I just have to make a 
connection. 

1044
00:53:12,440 --> 00:53:16,080
I think that's a great approach.
Yeah, don't go into LinkedIn 

1045
00:53:16,080 --> 00:53:19,320
like, you know, like so many 
people and I say this like we 

1046
00:53:19,320 --> 00:53:22,240
don't have we don't necessarily 
have connections or ends to the 

1047
00:53:22,240 --> 00:53:24,840
jobs we're posting. 
We're kind of we're sourcing 

1048
00:53:24,840 --> 00:53:26,960
them. 
Some people go I'm interested, 

1049
00:53:26,960 --> 00:53:31,520
I'm like, well then apply, you 
know, or they, they, they put 

1050
00:53:31,520 --> 00:53:34,000
they either message you directly
I'm like, can you review my 

1051
00:53:34,000 --> 00:53:37,080
resume and they're asking for 
free services or they're like 

1052
00:53:37,160 --> 00:53:39,800
they put their resume in the 
comments and they want people to

1053
00:53:40,160 --> 00:53:42,960
you know there's there's certain
places for those things there's 

1054
00:53:42,960 --> 00:53:45,080
certain groups and things that 
you can do that and that's not 

1055
00:53:45,080 --> 00:53:48,040
in the comments section of 
somebody who applies for. 

1056
00:53:48,040 --> 00:53:50,520
Well, I do love seeing it 
though, when somebody posts a 

1057
00:53:50,520 --> 00:53:53,640
role in LMD and then people are 
like, I'm interested, I applied.

1058
00:53:53,640 --> 00:53:55,200
I can't wait to talk to you. 
I love that. 

1059
00:53:55,200 --> 00:53:57,640
I love seeing the attention 
around like what a job gets 

1060
00:53:57,640 --> 00:54:00,120
because that's just getting more
and more qualified candidates. 

1061
00:54:00,440 --> 00:54:01,840
But don't be like, I'm 
interested. 

1062
00:54:01,840 --> 00:54:04,280
Here's my resume. 
What should I do to fix it? 

1063
00:54:04,280 --> 00:54:06,880
Or, you know, interview me now, 
like that kind of stuff. 

1064
00:54:06,880 --> 00:54:09,960
People are, people are so bored.
There's a there's a certain set 

1065
00:54:09,960 --> 00:54:14,920
of rules you have to follow to 
kind of get into the network. 

1066
00:54:15,800 --> 00:54:19,440
Well, it's like what you said 
earlier with your video, you 

1067
00:54:19,440 --> 00:54:20,840
want to see the person behind 
it. 

1068
00:54:21,120 --> 00:54:23,560
And so when you see that 
comment, you're getting to know 

1069
00:54:23,560 --> 00:54:26,600
the person behind it, but add 
something to that comment, talk 

1070
00:54:26,600 --> 00:54:29,080
about project you've done or 
something like that. 

1071
00:54:29,320 --> 00:54:31,720
That really gets them excited. 
Oh, excellent. 

1072
00:54:31,760 --> 00:54:34,840
Tony, I posted a couple of 
director roles, but I, I, I wish

1073
00:54:34,840 --> 00:54:38,360
you luck with all of them. 
So last word, Holly, I would 

1074
00:54:38,800 --> 00:54:40,840
have a broad open-ended 
question. 

1075
00:54:40,880 --> 00:54:46,240
What do you think is the final 
word that you would say about 

1076
00:54:46,840 --> 00:54:49,520
interviewing? 
We've talked about so many 

1077
00:54:49,520 --> 00:54:51,720
different aspects of it, 
everything from the emotional 

1078
00:54:51,720 --> 00:54:54,520
side to some of the tactical 
strategy side. 

1079
00:54:54,600 --> 00:54:58,240
What do you want to close with? 
I really just want everybody to 

1080
00:54:58,240 --> 00:55:00,520
remember that you're more than 
just a piece of paper. 

1081
00:55:00,560 --> 00:55:04,240
You're more than a portfolio, 
You're more than whatever 

1082
00:55:04,320 --> 00:55:06,360
project you did in the past and 
failed at. 

1083
00:55:06,360 --> 00:55:10,080
To me, like when you're looking 
for a new job, it's because 

1084
00:55:10,520 --> 00:55:14,040
you've hit a point where you're 
either, no, I don't want to say 

1085
00:55:14,040 --> 00:55:16,240
bored, but you're looking for 
more of a challenge. 

1086
00:55:16,440 --> 00:55:20,560
You're looking for something 
different that is going to make 

1087
00:55:20,560 --> 00:55:24,440
your life better. 
And I want people to know that 

1088
00:55:24,440 --> 00:55:28,000
you are so much more than that. 
Those pieces of papers and those

1089
00:55:28,000 --> 00:55:30,320
professional resources. 
And I'll tell you this, I have 

1090
00:55:30,320 --> 00:55:32,960
gone through resumes and been on
hiring committees and I have 

1091
00:55:32,960 --> 00:55:36,160
picked people like this is going
to be the top candidate from the

1092
00:55:36,160 --> 00:55:37,680
resume. 
And guess what? 

1093
00:55:37,720 --> 00:55:39,920
They were terrible. 
They were. 

1094
00:55:40,200 --> 00:55:42,960
Terrible. 
So that piece of paper doesn't 

1095
00:55:43,080 --> 00:55:46,560
necessarily say who you are. 
Everything in your power. 

1096
00:55:46,560 --> 00:55:49,400
Get those video recommendations,
do a video yourself. 

1097
00:55:49,400 --> 00:55:52,640
Step out of your comfort zone. 
You are worth it. 

1098
00:55:52,960 --> 00:55:56,480
You are 100% worth it and you 
should not settle for anything 

1099
00:55:56,480 --> 00:55:59,560
less at this stage. 
Many of you at this stage in 

1100
00:55:59,560 --> 00:56:01,760
your career, you deserve 
something better. 

1101
00:56:02,320 --> 00:56:05,560
And if you talk to me and 
Chelsea, we will tell you where 

1102
00:56:05,560 --> 00:56:07,760
to go. 
There are other places like you 

1103
00:56:07,760 --> 00:56:10,440
can find roles. 
Create like the last thing I'll 

1104
00:56:10,440 --> 00:56:12,680
say is create opportunity for 
yourself. 

1105
00:56:12,720 --> 00:56:17,480
Don't rely on the corporations 
and the powers that be to make 

1106
00:56:17,480 --> 00:56:21,920
you think that you need to have 
a job in in certain areas. 

1107
00:56:22,000 --> 00:56:24,320
Create your own path like I 
create. 

1108
00:56:24,320 --> 00:56:26,600
I've created roles like the 
director of growth marketing, 

1109
00:56:27,520 --> 00:56:31,280
Shawna created that just for me.
Like I didn't do anything that 

1110
00:56:31,280 --> 00:56:35,160
wasn't a posted role. 
So please, I know you're worth 

1111
00:56:35,360 --> 00:56:37,840
you are more than just a piece 
of paper and go for it. 

1112
00:56:37,840 --> 00:56:40,560
You got it. 
And you got it's a fantastic way

1113
00:56:40,560 --> 00:56:44,800
to end Beth. 
This is Holly's Holly's podcast 

1114
00:56:44,840 --> 00:56:47,480
that I popped up. 
It's the add up learning and 

1115
00:56:47,480 --> 00:56:49,400
development. 
Here's their Yeah Add Up 

1116
00:56:49,400 --> 00:56:50,560
learning and development 
podcast. 

1117
00:56:51,200 --> 00:56:53,440
Yep, excellent podcast. 
I was aware I was missing, so 

1118
00:56:53,440 --> 00:56:56,400
that's OK. 
Yeah. 

1119
00:56:56,400 --> 00:56:59,280
So I love all of these comments 
that we're getting. 

1120
00:56:59,280 --> 00:57:00,720
I'm glad people have found this 
useful. 

1121
00:57:00,720 --> 00:57:03,960
I love listening to Holly and I 
seriously, I always write things

1122
00:57:03,960 --> 00:57:05,640
down because I'm like Holly on 
this. 

1123
00:57:05,720 --> 00:57:07,280
There's more. 
I mean, we could probably do 

1124
00:57:07,280 --> 00:57:09,240
another one of these, if I'm 
being honest. 

1125
00:57:09,480 --> 00:57:11,280
Well. 
We've got a bunch of requests 

1126
00:57:11,280 --> 00:57:15,080
for for them and also for a 
couple of just just asking 

1127
00:57:15,080 --> 00:57:17,800
questions and which is nice 
because it means less prep for 

1128
00:57:17,800 --> 00:57:21,600
us and we can still add value. 
Happy to jump on and do AQ and a

1129
00:57:21,680 --> 00:57:23,320
just the whole thing like a 
radio show. 

1130
00:57:23,800 --> 00:57:27,680
Yeah, I I like that approach. 
So we will definitely keep that 

1131
00:57:27,680 --> 00:57:30,280
in mind as. 
You're welcome everyone. 

1132
00:57:30,280 --> 00:57:32,800
Have a great night afternoon. 
Yes. 

1133
00:57:32,800 --> 00:57:35,520
So for those of you who are 
asking about the recording, as 

1134
00:57:35,520 --> 00:57:39,800
soon as I hit stop on all this, 
an automatic e-mail goes out. 

1135
00:57:39,840 --> 00:57:43,040
It's beautiful. 
I love automation of the 

1136
00:57:43,120 --> 00:57:46,600
recording as well as some of the
links that we shared too. 

1137
00:57:46,600 --> 00:57:49,560
So you'll get Holly's LinkedIn, 
you'll get my LinkedIn. 

1138
00:57:49,560 --> 00:57:53,920
And in particular, I can't 
remember now what I wrote, but I

1139
00:57:53,920 --> 00:57:56,040
think I shared each of these 
links on there. 

1140
00:57:56,320 --> 00:57:58,360
So cool. 
Great. 

1141
00:57:58,360 --> 00:58:02,600
Thank you all for coming and we 
really appreciate you spending 

1142
00:58:02,600 --> 00:58:05,760
your evening with us. 
All right, I'm going to hit 

1143
00:58:06,520 --> 00:58:07,160
pause. 
Good night. 

1144
00:58:07,160 --> 00:58:10,640
I'm so I'm going to turn off the
session, but then we're still 

1145
00:58:10,960 --> 00:58:12,520
audible. 
I learned last time. 

1146
00:58:13,560 --> 00:58:17,000
OK, we have to go off the stage.
Oh wait, you go Aza, how you do 

1147
00:58:17,000 --> 00:58:19,040
it? 
Oh, but then we can't talk to 

1148
00:58:19,040 --> 00:58:20,440
each other, right? 
Right. 

1149
00:58:22,120 --> 00:58:25,760
This is a new system for those 
of you who are watching this at 

1150
00:58:25,760 --> 00:58:29,400
any rate, I will say thank you 
Holly and have a have a lovely 

1151
00:58:29,440 --> 00:58:32,400
night too. 
I'm going to yes. 

1152
00:58:32,400 --> 00:58:34,640
It is like the after park. 
Yeah, where this is the after 

1153
00:58:34,640 --> 00:58:37,400
show where we really get into 
the the good stuff. 

1154
00:58:37,880 --> 00:58:39,720
Exactly. 
All the secrets. 

1155
00:58:39,800 --> 00:58:42,080
All right, so I'm going to end 
it and then I think it's going 

1156
00:58:42,080 --> 00:58:44,480
to kick us all off. 
So have a good night and good 

1157
00:58:44,480 --> 00:58:50,920
night everyone else. 
That's a wrap for today's 

1158
00:58:50,920 --> 00:58:54,000
episode of the Ed Up Learning 
and Development podcast. 

1159
00:58:54,600 --> 00:58:58,440
I hope you picked up some 
inspiration, strategies, and 

1160
00:58:58,440 --> 00:59:02,680
maybe even a spark of motivation
to take with you on your own 

1161
00:59:02,680 --> 00:59:04,840
journey. 
If you enjoyed this 

1162
00:59:04,840 --> 00:59:08,200
conversation, don't forget to 
subscribe to our show so you 

1163
00:59:08,200 --> 00:59:11,840
never miss an episode. 
And while you're there, go ahead

1164
00:59:11,840 --> 00:59:15,720
and give us a five star rating. 
It really helps more people in 

1165
00:59:15,720 --> 00:59:18,400
the L&D community find us and 
join the conversation. 

1166
00:59:19,200 --> 00:59:21,480
Until next time, remember my 
motto. 

1167
00:59:22,040 --> 00:59:26,880
Speak it, build it, land it. 
Thanks for listening and I'll 

1168
00:59:27,000 --> 00:59:31,680
catch you in the next episode. 
Hi, we're ispring, an 

1169
00:59:31,680 --> 00:59:34,600
international team of e-learning
enthusiasts who helped more than

1170
00:59:34,600 --> 00:59:38,120
60,000 clients across the globe 
succeed with better online 

1171
00:59:38,120 --> 00:59:40,600
learning. 
Our two flagship solutions are 

1172
00:59:40,600 --> 00:59:43,280
ispring Suite and ispring Learn 
LMS.