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Hello, my name is Holly Owens 
and welcome to Ed Up Ed Tech, 

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the podcast that keeps you in 
the know about all the latest Ed

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Tech happenings. 
We interview guests from around 

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the globe to give you deeper 
insights into the Ed tech 

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industry, the field of 
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We're proudly a part of 
America's leading podcast 

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network, the. 
Ed Up Experience. 

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It's time to sit back and enjoy 
the latest episode of Ed Up Ed 

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Tech. 
Are you tired of feeling stuck 

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tbj 23 Hello everyone and 
welcome to another fantastic 

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episode of Ed Up Ed Tech. 
My name is Holly Owens and. 

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My name is Nadia Johnson and 
we're your host and we're really

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excited about the guests that we
have today. 

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With us we have Mariah Okoye and
she is a learning designer at 

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the University of South Florida.
Mariah, welcome to the show. 

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Thank you for having me. 
Welcome, Mariah. 

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We're really excited to chat 
with you because we know you 

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have a lot to share when it 
comes to learning design and you

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know your most recent transition
into the higher Ed space. 

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But before we get into all that 
stuff, we want to know more 

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about your journey. 
Tell us a little bit, how did 

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you land where you are today? 
Tell us about your educational 

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journey. 
Sure. 

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And I'm excited to be here. 
So yeah, I. 

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I've shared before that my 
journey started well, My journey

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in instructional design and as a
learning designer started before

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I even realized it was going in 
this direction. 

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So ever since I was a child that
was really engulfed in education

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and what was happening at 
school, I always wanted to be 

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there. 
It was like my getaway from the 

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realities of home. 
And so I knew that I was going 

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into education. 
When I started my undergraduate 

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degree, so everything was going 
amazingly well in my undergrad 

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degree or in my undergrad plan, 
I guess you can say. 

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And I went in as an elementary 
education major. 

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Come senior year when we have to
do the final internship it was. 

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It was too much for my finances 
to put to to put all of that 

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attention to being in a full a 
full year or semester of an 

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internship without pay. 
So I changed my degree at the 

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very end to educational studies.
But I still went into education.

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I still taught. 
I and I absolutely loved it. 

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But I wanted to get a master's 
degree because we're taught that

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we need master's degrees in 
order to be successful in 

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education. 
But the route that I went in in 

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educational studies, I couldn't 
get the traditional master's 

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degree, so I went with 
instructional design. 

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I did not know that it was 
exactly where I should be. 

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It was creating content and and 
creating learning experiences 

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for any type of learner was 
really where I thrived and where

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I found joy in education. 
So I continued to dabble with 

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that in the classroom and in my.
At my school sites and more and 

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more started to realize that I 
wanted to branch out and do more

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with instructional design and 
learning design. 

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So in October of 2022 I started 
my journey. 

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I started watching a ton of 
YouTube videos and working 

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really hard. 
You're definitely a good company

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there. 
I watch YouTube all the time. 

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Absolutely a ton of YouTube 
videos and then. 

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I I found Holly and we connected
on on LinkedIn and then I joined

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the professional journey and 
with her help and the help of 

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YouTube and colleagues and 
friends and family, I landed my 

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role at the University of South 
Florida. 

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So awesome. 
So awesome. 

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I want to go back to something 
that you said and it might this 

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and Nadia, you can tell me this 
might be another episode that we

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have to do. 
When you said it resonated with 

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me that you have to have a 
master's degree in academia to 

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be successful, that's the 
expectation, right? 

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Yeah, so that was almost like. 
It was a given. 

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Like that's what you do. 
That's that's the path that you 

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follow. 
And to be quite frank, we were 

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also kind of taught that if you 
wanted more money, you needed a 

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master's degree as well. 
But the part that isn't really 

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explained is that in many 
different school districts and 

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things like that, you have to 
pick up a degree that follows 

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under a certain. 
A master's degree that follows 

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under a certain qualification. 
So even after I had gone and 

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gotten my master's instructional
design, it didn't count for a 

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race. 
So right. 

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And that's the thing, like the 
whole master's degree thing. 

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I think it's funny. 
I've always thought it was 

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funny, like in education. 
Like they're that is like the 

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only industry or sector that 
really like makes you go back to

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school to get more money or to 
gain any type of growth in your 

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position. 
And I think it's just always 

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like we've always been trained 
that way because I know we both 

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we kind of connected because we 
both are working on our masters 

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or have worked on our masters 
and instructional design. 

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And I just think it's it's. 
So I think that that's a little.

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I think it's just funny because 
in any other sector, you know, a

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master's degree is seen as cool,
but it's not like a required 

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thing for you to progress. 
So I've always thought that that

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was interesting. 
Do you feel like I have a 

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question for you in regards to 
your master's degree? 

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Do you feel like that it really 
prepared you for what you're 

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doing now within your role? 
Like do you feel like it that it

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was one of those things that is 
really made a difference in you 

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being able to like be more 
confident in your role as a 

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learning designer? 
Thank you so much for that 

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question because I've actually 
had conversations about this 

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before and while I respect my 
program, I feel like I learned a

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lot more by trying things, 
practicing with different tools 

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and doing my role now. 
Now did I get like a? 

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An overall shell and idea, Sure,
yeah. 

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But I didn't really. 
I had to get kind of nitty 

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gritty and dirty with the with 
the tools that are available to 

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really understand the scope of 
what instructional design is. 

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So I do think that there's quite
a lot of people that can be 

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very, very successful without 
the degree, but there's there 

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are places that will. 
Require you to have it. 

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So if it's something that 
someone wants to go for and do, 

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I think that they should, but I 
don't think it's necessary to be

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successful. 
Yeah, I kind of agree with that.

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I think it gives you a good 
foundation as to like what 

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instructional design is. 
But I think the the more you 

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like get into the field and 
practice and learn. 

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I think you're learning just as 
much as you would like in the in

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in a Master's degree program. 
So another question I have for 

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you is. 
Thinking about your journey from

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like education or educational 
studies and instructional design

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into learning design at USF. 
What? 

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Who has maybe inspired you along
your journey? 

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So I would say first and 
foremost my my aunt. 

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She was in instructional 
designed. 

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Before I even knew what it was, 
and she was very coming up, she 

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really wanted me and my siblings
and my cousins to be very 

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involved with technology and the
new different learning tools 

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that were available. 
And we just thought she was 

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just, you know, wanting us to 
keep busy. 

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But now I now I know and 
understand that she was really 

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kind of helping us become 
technology literate. 

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Yeah, and it really helped. 
What a fantastic aunt I want. 

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One of those. 
And and again, I didn't know it 

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then and it took me quite a 
while to to really understand, 

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whoa wait a second. 
She's been doing for years what 

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I've what I'm trying to do now. 
And I also, I really want to 

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give my applaud and respect to 
Holly because you supported me 

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when I was just so stressed and 
concerned about so many little 

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pieces of the process. 
So. 

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I definitely appreciate Holly's 
advice and encouragement along 

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the way. 
Y'all Nadica said the same 

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thing. 
I was like, it's very nice and 

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you're so welcome. 
But I feel like, and I told 

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Nadia this too, this is like a 
reciprocated relationship, like 

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where we're helping each other. 
And that's what I love about, 

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like, the professional journey 
in the LinkedIn community is 

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that we're all here supporting 
each other and trying to figure 

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out our way. 
Because I've been there, Nadia's

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been there, we've all been 
there. 

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And it's just so nice to turn 
the people that you know you can

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trust and just figure your way 
through. 

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Especially I don't think there's
enough set out there about how 

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to deal with the stress of it. 
Although a lot, I'm seeing a lot

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come across some people's 
LinkedIn post, especially with 

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recent layoffs about like, you 
know, the different interview 

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rounds, how many there are like 
connecting with people and 

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getting, you know, information 
back, like when you apply for a 

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job. 
So really it's something that 

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needs to be talked about and it 
really does impact like your 

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mental health and overall like 
how you feel about your talents 

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and your potential. 
And The thing is is. 

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I, I, I, I don't think you 
understand how much the 

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professional journey like this 
job market is absolutely insane.

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I really don't know what I would
have done without like you and 

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all of the people and 
connections that I've met 

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through the professional 
journey. 

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Like it has really helped that 
this whole transition, this 

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process for for many of us. 
So I think that's that's really 

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what it boils down is just 
having that community was so 

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helpful, I agree. 
Same, same everybody gay. 

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So Mara, I know that you said 
you were an educator before and 

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thinking about your whole 
transition, and you already 

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talked about some of the 
stresses. 

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Are there any, like some pieces 
of advice that you could give to

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people who are in that situation
right now where they're kind of,

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like stressed and they don't 
know what the next step is to 

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take? 
They maybe they got laid off or 

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maybe they're looking to step 
out of education. 

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Can you give them any you know, 
just some advice on what to. 

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Sure. 
So I would say there's a lot of 

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like tech programs and tools and
resources that are already like 

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in districts they're already 
funded, whether that's as simple

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as like a class Dojo or it's 
near pot or whatever have you. 

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I would encourage people to 
utilize the tools that are 

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already in their districts 
already have. 

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And try to find a way to 
practice with those tools so 

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that you're familiar with with 
those learning technologies and 

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how you can transfer that onto 
tools that that you may not have

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access to like Articulate and 
beyond and such. 

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I would encourage those to start
working on a portfolio now. 

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I actually started working on a 
portfolio before I really even 

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knew what jobs. 
Like where I really wanted to 

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go, I was still, I was still 
unsure if I really wanted to 

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leave education. 
But I started working on it just

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so that I I was prepared and I 
had that practice. 

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And I also would encourage those
that let's say you've decided, 

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you know you want to leave 
education, This is something I 

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really want to do, and you've 
been applying and applying, 

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applying and you just you just 
can't get it. 

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To just continue applying and 
I've shared this with you guys 

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before that my thought process 
on it is to every denial is one 

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step closer to the to the 
approval to that e-mail to the 

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next interview to that to that 
offer. 

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And that sounds very, I guess 
you could say it sounds toxic 

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positivity mindset, but it 
really helped me get through 

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those at some .50, a hundred 
denial emails because that that 

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offer will be there as long as 
you. 

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Put that effort in to better 
yourself and and really show and

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leverage the skills that you've 
obtained. 

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I I was just going to that's 
great. 

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I love every denials. 
One step closer to approval. 

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00:14:36,340 --> 00:14:39,900
That's a great quote and also 
too like I don't know when 

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positivity became toxic. 
I don't know when positivity 

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became something negative. 
I don't quite understand that 

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because I feel like through your
experiences in life, like that's

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the positivity and the hope is 
what really keeps you going, 

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especially in these these sorts 
of situations. 

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So thank you. 
That's, that's great that that 

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might be the title of the 
episode or that's definitely 

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going in the show notes 
somewhere. 

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00:15:03,050 --> 00:15:05,530
That's a great quote and we're 
putting your name beside it, 

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giving you credit. 
Thank you. 

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Thank you. 
Yeah I always say rejection is 

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redirection like. 
And sometimes rejection is 

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protection because sometimes you
don't know why you're being 

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rejected, but it could just be 
it redirecting you to something 

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better and or protecting you 
from something that you have no 

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clue that you're being protected
from. 

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So yeah, I'm totally, totally 
down with that, that quote. 

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So, Mariah, you work at, you 
work in higher Ed and it's quite

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different from education. 
So what are the some of the 

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things that you you've seen, 
like some of the differences 

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you've seen between working like
in a classroom and then going 

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into higher education and 
working at it, you know, a 

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larger institution that's pretty
well known, I'll say. 

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Yeah, I would say even as small 
as the way that higher education

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uses canvas compared to how we 
may use it in like K12 systems 

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when it comes to online 
learning. 

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Use it heavily and I'm sorry. 
We use it heavily and I find 

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that I've learned so much more 
about canvas than I thought I 

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knew. 
I I thought I was this Wiz about

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00:16:24,570 --> 00:16:27,770
it and I've learned so much more
with it. 

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Also just the way that adults 
work together. 

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I mean it's still it can be high
stress in certain. 

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To meet certain deadlines and 
things like that, but just the 

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level of respect that everyone 
has for each other is really 

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warm and refreshing. 
And the availability to 

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different tech tools that I 
would dreamed of being able to 

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be able to use, I love it for 
that. 

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Isn't that so? 
My gosh, it's like this whole 

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world opens up. 
Yes. 

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I before I'm like okay. 
I can get a week free trial 

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here. 
I can get a 30 day here and now 

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you can get it and. 
Now I can really play around, 

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and when I have that time, I can
use tools and things that I 

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didn't, that I didn't get to use
before. 

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So yeah, I think that's really 
where the big changes show up. 

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00:17:20,819 --> 00:17:21,780
Cool. 
Awesome. 

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00:17:22,740 --> 00:17:26,619
So thinking about. 
What you know all that you've 

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00:17:26,619 --> 00:17:29,740
accomplished moving into this 
new role as a learning designer,

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00:17:30,180 --> 00:17:34,380
what are some of your goals for 
the rest of this year or even 

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the upcoming year? 
I'm just thinking kind of ahead,

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00:17:37,100 --> 00:17:39,900
what are some some things you 
want to accomplish are some 

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things that you have to look 
forward to as far as some goals?

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00:17:45,860 --> 00:17:49,380
Sure. 
So I have. 

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00:17:49,380 --> 00:17:51,980
I have a couple I definitely 
want to get. 

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00:17:52,470 --> 00:17:56,230
More comfortable and confident 
with some of the tech tools that

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00:17:56,230 --> 00:17:59,750
we use because I feel good about
it and then I'm, I may be thrown

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00:17:59,750 --> 00:18:02,310
a project and I'm like what? 
Wait, I didn't know that it 

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00:18:02,310 --> 00:18:05,190
could do that. 
So I'd like to learn a lot more 

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00:18:05,190 --> 00:18:10,390
of that and I really enjoy. 
I just got back from a 

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00:18:10,390 --> 00:18:12,630
conference today and I really 
enjoy conferences. 

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00:18:12,630 --> 00:18:15,710
I like that opportunity to share
what you've learned and really 

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00:18:15,710 --> 00:18:19,150
like bounce ideas off of 
colleagues and peers. 

295
00:18:19,470 --> 00:18:25,890
So I would love to. 
And it may be, I guess you could

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00:18:25,890 --> 00:18:32,210
say adventurous, but if I I'd 
like to present at a conference,

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00:18:32,210 --> 00:18:37,610
even if it's something small 
like about AI use or something 

298
00:18:37,610 --> 00:18:40,130
like that, I'd really love to 
present at a conference because 

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00:18:40,130 --> 00:18:44,490
I think it would help with my 
fear of public speaking, but it 

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00:18:44,490 --> 00:18:49,380
would also let me. 
Share what I really enjoy and 

301
00:18:49,380 --> 00:18:52,620
that's creating and learning and
diving into new tools and things

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00:18:52,620 --> 00:18:54,900
like that. 
And AI is such a huge topic 

303
00:18:54,900 --> 00:18:58,500
right now. 
So I would love to be involved 

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00:18:58,500 --> 00:19:04,420
in an AI conference with an 
instructional designer learning 

305
00:19:04,420 --> 00:19:06,380
design. 
And I know that my institution 

306
00:19:06,380 --> 00:19:10,020
is is also really curious about 
AI as well. 

307
00:19:10,020 --> 00:19:12,820
So I think they would definitely
back me up on that. 

308
00:19:13,540 --> 00:19:15,060
That's awesome. 
That's a great. 

309
00:19:15,220 --> 00:19:18,710
Opportunity there. 
Yeah, that's fantastic. 

310
00:19:18,710 --> 00:19:21,230
And I think that you should 
definitely go for that. 

311
00:19:21,230 --> 00:19:23,430
And so this time next year when 
we're catching up with you, 

312
00:19:23,430 --> 00:19:26,750
you'll be you've you, you have 
will have presented at a 

313
00:19:26,750 --> 00:19:30,630
conference, offices are so cool.
Yeah, yeah, we're putting that 

314
00:19:30,630 --> 00:19:33,350
on to the universe and there's a
really close conference. 

315
00:19:33,390 --> 00:19:36,350
Well, not super close because 
it's here in University of South

316
00:19:36,350 --> 00:19:39,670
Florida. 
But so one of the things is one 

317
00:19:39,670 --> 00:19:41,950
of the conferences that's 
actually close to you, Maria, is

318
00:19:41,950 --> 00:19:44,870
the OLC. 
Oh, they're in DC this year, but

319
00:19:44,870 --> 00:19:48,260
they're usually in Orlando. 
And I love presenting at that 

320
00:19:48,260 --> 00:19:50,820
conference. 
It's so many different topics, 

321
00:19:51,300 --> 00:19:53,100
like so many different people 
you can meet. 

322
00:19:53,100 --> 00:19:55,100
It's huge. 
So I would definitely recommend 

323
00:19:55,100 --> 00:19:57,420
that as something to you present
and other people who are 

324
00:19:57,420 --> 00:19:58,700
thinking about going into it 
too. 

325
00:20:00,020 --> 00:20:02,220
Yeah, for sure. 
I love walking away from those. 

326
00:20:02,260 --> 00:20:04,640
Well, the moment that I, It 
could be something that I 

327
00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:06,840
already know about or it could 
be something that I've never 

328
00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:09,120
heard of, and my wheels start 
turning immediately. 

329
00:20:09,120 --> 00:20:10,840
I'm like, how can we use this? 
What can we do differently? 

330
00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:13,600
I just, I guess I'm a nerd that 
way. 

331
00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:16,240
I really love. 
I really love learning. 

332
00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:19,080
Learning. 
I love it. 

333
00:20:20,070 --> 00:20:23,230
Absolutely. 
So we've had a wonderful 

334
00:20:23,230 --> 00:20:25,230
conversation with you. 
We've learned a lot about your 

335
00:20:25,230 --> 00:20:28,550
journey, some of your advice and
things that you would recommend 

336
00:20:28,550 --> 00:20:30,630
to people. 
We have two final questions we 

337
00:20:30,630 --> 00:20:34,830
like to ask on the show. 
So the first one is release 3. 

338
00:20:35,430 --> 00:20:38,070
Is there anything we miss and 
anything else you'd like to 

339
00:20:38,070 --> 00:20:39,990
share? 
And then what we really want to 

340
00:20:39,990 --> 00:20:42,590
know from you, and you're kind 
of already talking about this a 

341
00:20:42,590 --> 00:20:45,310
little bit, is what does the 
future of education look like? 

342
00:20:45,630 --> 00:20:49,070
So anything that we miss and 
tell us about the future. 

343
00:20:50,740 --> 00:20:53,460
So I don't think there's 
anything that we miss. 

344
00:20:53,500 --> 00:20:56,300
I I really love this 
conversation. 

345
00:20:56,300 --> 00:21:01,340
It's a joy to talk to you guys. 
Well, when I look at the future 

346
00:21:01,340 --> 00:21:05,860
of education, I think we're kind
of at like a breaking point 

347
00:21:05,860 --> 00:21:11,020
right now when it comes to K12 
and higher Ed and a I does have 

348
00:21:11,020 --> 00:21:14,340
a part in that. 
But just what's what's happening

349
00:21:14,340 --> 00:21:17,940
in the world and the way that 
that learners look like how 

350
00:21:17,940 --> 00:21:22,560
learners look now we're at a 
point where we really got to 

351
00:21:22,560 --> 00:21:24,360
read. 
We've I really believe that we 

352
00:21:24,360 --> 00:21:27,560
have to revamp what we know 
education and learning to look 

353
00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:31,520
like. 
And I'm excited to be a part of 

354
00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:35,200
that because like I said I like 
to, I like to see, I like the 

355
00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:38,240
wheels turning. 
I like to think of those plans 

356
00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:40,880
and ideas even if they fall 
flat, I like to be a part of 

357
00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:43,320
that. 
So I really do think that 

358
00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:48,750
education is going to, if we 
want it to be successful, it's 

359
00:21:48,750 --> 00:21:51,790
going to have to look very, very
different than it does now. 

360
00:21:51,790 --> 00:21:54,590
And I think that's OK. 
It's going to be different and 

361
00:21:54,590 --> 00:21:57,470
it's going to be scary. 
But that's where growth comes 

362
00:21:57,470 --> 00:21:59,870
from. 
So we'll see. 

363
00:22:01,710 --> 00:22:03,070
I can't wait. 
I'm ready. 

364
00:22:03,190 --> 00:22:04,990
I mean, they need to be at a 
breaking point. 

365
00:22:05,070 --> 00:22:07,510
They need to figure something 
out here, absolutely. 

366
00:22:08,270 --> 00:22:09,670
Yeah, I agree. 
We need, we need a 

367
00:22:09,670 --> 00:22:12,790
transformation of education. 
There's just going to have to be

368
00:22:12,790 --> 00:22:17,410
some things that change. 
And I'm hopeful, let's just say 

369
00:22:17,410 --> 00:22:20,010
that as well. 
I'm like I'm hopeful for that. 

370
00:22:20,010 --> 00:22:22,650
And like Mariah said, I'm 
excited to be a part of that 

371
00:22:22,650 --> 00:22:26,050
too. 
So that's a great, great answer 

372
00:22:26,050 --> 00:22:29,570
there. 
Yeah, well Mariah, we can't 

373
00:22:29,570 --> 00:22:32,090
thank you enough for coming on 
the show and sharing your. 

374
00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:34,520
Experiences. 
I put you in all kinds of public

375
00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:38,000
speaking situations now, so 
consider this your practice. 

376
00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:40,320
So when you go and you get 
accepted to the conference, 

377
00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:42,840
you're already ready. 
You've already had a few few 

378
00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:45,880
mock sessions, but we can't 
thank you enough for your time 

379
00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:49,880
and talking to us here. 
Yes, so much you guys. 

380
00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:52,440
You definitely are helping me 
break out of that shell, so I 

381
00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:54,720
really appreciate it. 
Having to be. 

382
00:22:56,520 --> 00:22:59,160
Yes, absolutely. 
It's so great talking to you 

383
00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:01,640
again, Mariah. 
Thank you guys. 

384
00:23:08,460 --> 00:23:11,940
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