1
00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:04,200
The relationship that people 
have to other people's bodies, 

2
00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:08,680
the way that we can have our own
relationship with someone else's

3
00:00:08,680 --> 00:00:13,200
appearance and what that means 
to us if they change the way 

4
00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:15,880
that they look is really 
interesting. 

5
00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:20,320
When we're talking about things 
like women and like, you know 

6
00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:22,800
who, who does your body belong 
to? 

7
00:00:23,120 --> 00:00:26,960
Yeah, intriguing. 
It's not that intriguing. 

8
00:00:27,040 --> 00:00:29,240
I'm it's just almost. 
It's one of those things that I 

9
00:00:29,240 --> 00:00:33,160
can't even by acknowledging it, 
it makes it look like I care. 

10
00:00:33,160 --> 00:00:37,240
In this way this is. 
The thing and I don't care, I 

11
00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:40,680
don't care but it's hard. 
Do you make me care? 

12
00:00:42,840 --> 00:00:45,280
Do is this normal or is this mad
and really? 

13
00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:48,360
Freaky inside normal normal. 
I think it's normal. 

14
00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:50,600
It's normal. 
Don't tell me if you disagree. 

15
00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:54,200
Goes without saying you're 
listening to goes without saying

16
00:00:54,200 --> 00:00:55,920
with Sophie and Wing. 
I'm Wing. 

17
00:00:56,120 --> 00:00:59,120
And I'm Sophie. 
What an amazing time to be 

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00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:01,720
alive. 
We are so back and unpacking The

19
00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:06,960
Dirty word of all the demonic 
jealousy, envy, Feeling like you

20
00:01:06,960 --> 00:01:09,800
hate your friend because you 
want to be her maybe. 

21
00:01:09,800 --> 00:01:12,160
Feeling like you hate yourself 
because you don't want to be her

22
00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:14,640
maybe. 
I really feel like we went in a 

23
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lot of different avenues but did
everything justice here. 

24
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I feel good about this. 
I like this episode. 

25
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I really hope you do too if 
you're feeling a little a bit 

26
00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:26,800
kind of shameful, I feel like 
this will help normalize and 

27
00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:30,360
validate some of the kind of 
uglier emotions that just can't 

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00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:32,440
help but pop up sometimes. 
Enjoy the episode. 

29
00:01:32,440 --> 00:01:33,560
Thank you so much for being 
here. 

30
00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:37,320
Sending lots of love out to you.
Hello. 

31
00:01:37,440 --> 00:01:38,880
Hello. 
How are you? 

32
00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:40,640
How are you doing? 
Good, How are you? 

33
00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:41,840
Good. 
Good. 

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00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:44,520
You know, reverse. 
I was thinking earlier, but we 

35
00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:47,080
probably didn't make very clear 
in the last episode. 

36
00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:49,200
That's what we're pre. 
Recording these, that much I 

37
00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:53,720
think was said, yeah, I feel 
like we didn't say how nice it 

38
00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:55,600
was to have so many messages 
being like, where are you? 

39
00:01:55,600 --> 00:01:58,640
Can't wait. 
Oh my God, yeah, so nice. 

40
00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:01,360
Posting on Instagram and 
everyone's been really nice and 

41
00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:04,320
I really like when people are a 
bit funny. 

42
00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:07,480
I'm like, I can't remember it. 
Like someone said something and 

43
00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:10,280
I thought that's funny. 
Do you remember what it was? 

44
00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:12,200
No. 
Okay. 

45
00:02:12,600 --> 00:02:14,960
But sometimes I just think 
that's a funny little. 

46
00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:17,040
Yeah. 
Do you know what I mean? 

47
00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:20,160
Yeah, all the time. 
It was nice to know that people 

48
00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:24,040
actually do give a shit that 
like, when we don't record, 

49
00:02:24,040 --> 00:02:26,280
there are people being like, we 
miss you, where are you? 

50
00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:28,440
Like, that was incredibly, 
incredibly nice. 

51
00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:30,640
And when it's like we're coming 
back, people are like we're 

52
00:02:30,640 --> 00:02:32,560
hearing can't wait. 
Cute. 

53
00:02:32,920 --> 00:02:34,360
Thank you everyone for being 
here. 

54
00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:37,040
Thank you so much. 
And thank you for bearing with 

55
00:02:37,040 --> 00:02:39,680
and just like sticking with us 
and like if you're listening to 

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00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:43,240
this now, thank you for just 
like going with that and being 

57
00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:45,160
like they're back now. 
Gonna still listen something 

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00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:49,680
about it. 
OK, so we had like the whispers 

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00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:53,280
of a conversation and we were 
kind of like, zip, yeah, lock 

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00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:57,240
that, reload it into an episode 
because this is something we've 

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00:02:57,240 --> 00:03:00,240
spoken about a bit. 
But yeah, like a fair bit, yeah.

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00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:04,080
But we kind of had the whisper 
of a new angle somewhere. 

63
00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:05,840
I just feel like this is a juicy
topic. 

64
00:03:05,840 --> 00:03:08,280
Why I always feel like it's kind
of a fail safe is because as 

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00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:10,640
much as it's like there's 
nothing new in our personal 

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00:03:10,640 --> 00:03:14,880
lives for us to get off of our 
chests, I always think it's 

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00:03:14,880 --> 00:03:21,200
something so fascinating and 
kind of, it often goes without 

68
00:03:21,200 --> 00:03:23,200
saying, Like no one is speaking 
about it. 

69
00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:25,400
Not in the way that I feel like 
I need anyway. 

70
00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:30,000
I feel like I'm not seeing it 
talked about enough and it's 

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00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:33,240
jealousy which you're from the 
title probably, but. 

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00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:36,480
And the whole intro that we 
would have done, yeah, but it's 

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00:03:36,480 --> 00:03:37,560
jealousy, guys. 
That's. 

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00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:39,360
What I'll say, yeah, I don't 
know. 

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00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:42,160
I just think it's a bit. 
It's kind of like up there with 

76
00:03:42,160 --> 00:03:45,680
the top villains, I think. 
I would say, is it not, is it 

77
00:03:45,680 --> 00:03:48,160
not #1 villain? 
Because we were sort of trying 

78
00:03:48,160 --> 00:03:50,920
to be like before, what are we 
talking about? 

79
00:03:50,920 --> 00:03:53,240
We were like, is it friendship 
jealousy? 

80
00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:55,560
Is it social media jealousy or 
is it like relationship 

81
00:03:55,560 --> 00:03:57,320
jealousy? 
Which one is kind of like the 

82
00:03:57,320 --> 00:04:00,120
worst one? 
What you know, what is the topic

83
00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:01,800
we talk about today? 
Because we have spoke much 

84
00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:05,400
jealousy before, but yet as you 
were saying, no one, it feels 

85
00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:07,120
often like no one really speaks 
about it. 

86
00:04:07,320 --> 00:04:09,720
It definitely. 
There's always more to be said. 

87
00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:12,760
The thing that we say about it 
all the time is like fucking how

88
00:04:12,760 --> 00:04:14,240
it feels bad when you feel 
jealous. 

89
00:04:14,240 --> 00:04:17,279
Like it's the feeling that we 
know that everybody feels at the

90
00:04:17,279 --> 00:04:18,920
same time. 
No one is allowed to speak about

91
00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:21,839
it because you're having to kind
of admit not only like a fault 

92
00:04:21,839 --> 00:04:23,880
in yourself, which is 
embarrassing, but like maybe 

93
00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:27,200
that you see something that you 
want in someone else, which is 

94
00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:29,360
like probably one of the hardest
things that you have to do. 

95
00:04:30,320 --> 00:04:33,960
Like that a sort of this society
anyway that's like built around 

96
00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:36,800
comparison would set up that 
thing to be the hardest thing to

97
00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:39,280
do to be like this person has a 
thing that I I want. 

98
00:04:39,280 --> 00:04:42,040
So no one really talks about it,
I don't think. 

99
00:04:42,040 --> 00:04:46,160
But we were kind of social media
stuff I feel like is the easiest

100
00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:50,800
one to talk about to deal with. 
I would say, Oh, right, turn 

101
00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:52,280
your phone off, turn your phone 
off. 

102
00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:54,600
It's not like real. 
Just get off Instagram. 

103
00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:56,480
Yeah, fair enough. 
Block them, meet them, get them 

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00:04:56,480 --> 00:04:59,000
out. 
And it's a horrible thing that 

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00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:01,160
is then just made even more 
horrible almost where it's like 

106
00:05:01,160 --> 00:05:03,920
a friendship being made horrible
or relationship being made 

107
00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:06,440
horrible. 
That feels a bit more personal. 

108
00:05:06,560 --> 00:05:11,240
It's almost like with the social
media stuff, it's very much all 

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00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:13,480
in your own head and you're 
probably not going to ever see 

110
00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:16,240
that girl in your real life. 
What did you expect? 

111
00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:17,320
Right. 
Yeah. 

112
00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:19,560
You're kind of asking for it, 
which I often am. 

113
00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:22,120
But then in your relationships, 
it's like, not only have I got 

114
00:05:22,120 --> 00:05:25,400
this thing going on in my head, 
but also now I kind of hate 

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00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:27,160
myself and my friend. 
Great. 

116
00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:30,440
Yeah, you've ruined Gross a real
thing. 

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00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:33,880
Oh God, it's bad. 
It's so horrible, but it's so 

118
00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:35,560
you're not. 
Talking about it. 

119
00:05:35,560 --> 00:05:39,600
Yeah, it's it's. 
Never ending Stew? 

120
00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:42,760
It's not what this is. 
I don't know if people keep 

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00:05:42,760 --> 00:05:44,960
saying it. 
I think it was something about 

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00:05:44,960 --> 00:05:46,280
someone made a never ending 
Stew. 

123
00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:49,000
Or was it never ending soup and 
a blinding Stew? 

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00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:51,880
I keep getting those mixed up. 
What the hell are you talking 

125
00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:53,160
about? 
Is that Internet stuff? 

126
00:05:53,640 --> 00:05:55,720
Yeah, but it's also people are 
saying it in my real life. 

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00:05:55,720 --> 00:05:58,200
Blinding Stew. 
Blinding Stew is the one I keep 

128
00:05:58,200 --> 00:05:59,160
saying. 
What? 

129
00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:01,000
It. 
Doesn't matter. 

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00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:04,360
It doesn't matter, but it is a 
never ending soup of a topic to 

131
00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:07,280
me personally. 
It's always exciting. 

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00:06:07,280 --> 00:06:11,280
I'll never turn it down. 
Also, it just feels so private 

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00:06:11,280 --> 00:06:14,200
and like personal and raw. 
And I kind of feel like if you 

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00:06:14,200 --> 00:06:18,080
dug inside inside someone's 
journal, what percentage of that

135
00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:24,000
is them expressing jealousy? 
Because I kind of feel like even

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00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:26,480
your journals A risky place to 
put it, but is there anywhere 

137
00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:29,720
safe to confess that you're 
jealous of someone or something?

138
00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:33,480
Not really, not really. 
And that's why especially with 

139
00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:38,360
like friendship, jealousy and 
even like like an online thing. 

140
00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:41,360
It's why bitching and like 
online, hey, is such a huge 

141
00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:44,080
thing because the easiest thing 
to do that or that pretty much 

142
00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:48,200
the only way to express this 
emotion that we have is to OK, 

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00:06:48,200 --> 00:06:49,800
so say there's someone that I'm 
jealous of. 

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00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:52,920
The easiest way for me to 
process that is to be like, Oh 

145
00:06:52,920 --> 00:06:54,400
my God, did you see her? 
Blah, blah, blah, blah. 

146
00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:57,440
Rather than be like, fuck, I 
felt really threatened when she 

147
00:06:57,440 --> 00:07:00,040
did this thing. 
I'm going to like, maybe look at

148
00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:02,120
myself and to express it that 
way. 

149
00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:05,360
Never going to fucking happen. 
Should be happening. 

150
00:07:05,960 --> 00:07:08,720
Should be, but we're not allowed
as women to be anything other 

151
00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:12,120
than like cutesy kind or the 
time super compassionate and 

152
00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:14,480
also like I feel like we were. 
Raised. 

153
00:07:14,720 --> 00:07:17,680
No. 
And also kind of in this moment,

154
00:07:17,960 --> 00:07:21,360
there is an emphasis or like an 
expectation on women to be like 

155
00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:27,440
fully formed self accepting 
humans in the name of feminism. 

156
00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:33,640
And like there is an expectation
of well, don't hate the way that

157
00:07:33,640 --> 00:07:35,600
you look. 
That's so anti feminist of you. 

158
00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:37,920
No, no, don't. 
Why are you wasting time being 

159
00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:40,480
jealous of another woman? 
Like don't you know we live in a

160
00:07:40,480 --> 00:07:42,920
patriarchy? 
Or like I was looking up to this

161
00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:46,640
influencer and she confessed 
that she was insecure about her 

162
00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:49,040
bum. 
And I was so disappointed. 

163
00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:51,440
Do you know what I mean? 
Like there is a kind of 

164
00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:53,680
judgement, like a moral 
judgement. 

165
00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:55,320
It is. 
Disappointing as well. 

166
00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:58,200
I think you can be disappointed 
that someone that you view as 

167
00:07:58,200 --> 00:07:59,920
beautiful doesn't like 
themselves. 

168
00:07:59,920 --> 00:08:03,080
That is, I'll put my hands up. 
I'm disappointed. 

169
00:08:03,080 --> 00:08:06,040
That's quite sad because it's 
people that I aspire to look 

170
00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:09,200
like in some sick way, they 
don't even like themselves. 

171
00:08:09,200 --> 00:08:12,200
It's not necessarily like the 
pressure is on that person to 

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00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:14,280
love themselves and be happy 
with how they look. 

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00:08:14,480 --> 00:08:18,080
I think it just speaks fucking 
volumes about the sort of like 

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00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:21,400
impossibility of beauty that the
that we live in, that that's 

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00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:23,680
been set up for us. 
You can never reach it. 

176
00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:27,280
I don't think we we can or 
should speak about right now, 

177
00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:30,480
but like almost within the age 
of Ozempic, the kind of Monjaro 

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00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:33,200
girls on the Internet that 
there's so much conversation 

179
00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:35,520
around. 
I used to really look up to her 

180
00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:38,360
and she really made me feel good
about my body and now she's. 

181
00:08:38,360 --> 00:08:39,480
I don't know what you're 
talking. 

182
00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:42,520
About and so like almost that 
influences all, like everyone 

183
00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:46,240
being on Ozempic or whatever, 
and the way that that's kind of 

184
00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:50,280
just everywhere and also online,
the relationship that people 

185
00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:54,800
have to other people's bodies 
and like how we can be. 

186
00:08:54,800 --> 00:08:57,480
I'm, I'm not saying this is good
or bad or anything. 

187
00:08:57,480 --> 00:08:59,680
I'm not making judgement on it, 
just almost presenting it as 

188
00:08:59,680 --> 00:09:04,680
like part of this thing. 
The way that we can have our own

189
00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:08,920
relationship with someone else's
appearance and what that means 

190
00:09:09,280 --> 00:09:12,920
to us if they change the way 
that they look is really 

191
00:09:12,920 --> 00:09:15,720
interesting. 
When we're talking about things 

192
00:09:15,720 --> 00:09:20,560
like women and like, you know 
who, who does your body belong 

193
00:09:20,560 --> 00:09:22,920
to? 
Yeah, but it's that's the 

194
00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:25,640
problem of celebrities, 
especially like women 

195
00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:30,920
celebrities being emblems of 
specific things, of being like 

196
00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:34,040
this is the plus size 
influencer. 

197
00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:39,960
This is the feminist singer. 
This is even just like, this is 

198
00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:43,840
the tall blonde singer. 
This is the short blonde singer 

199
00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:45,960
that's Taylor Swift Sabrina 
carpet so if you. 

200
00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:47,880
Do want No. 
I've got people in my. 

201
00:09:47,880 --> 00:09:51,800
Head yeah, it's like we have 
emblems of people and that is 

202
00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:54,480
the problem that then if so you 
start seeing yourself as them. 

203
00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:56,600
If you're a tall blonde, 
whatever you start yourself in 

204
00:09:56,600 --> 00:10:00,680
Taylor's blah blah blah blah. 
Like that is why there maybe is 

205
00:10:00,680 --> 00:10:03,960
a little bit of a problem with 
women being reduced to these 

206
00:10:03,960 --> 00:10:07,640
like cookie cutter versions of 
themselves because then they are

207
00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:12,480
speaking for like entire like 
versions of a girl that like 

208
00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:14,400
view them that like feel like 
they can't change all of the 

209
00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:16,400
stuff that their value is only 
in that one thing. 

210
00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:19,560
That is where a large part of 
the problem comes from comes 

211
00:10:19,560 --> 00:10:22,600
from, especially when it comes 
down to things like you are a 

212
00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:25,640
plus size singer that loses a 
lot of weight. 

213
00:10:25,640 --> 00:10:27,920
Then people critique you because
you were the thing that was 

214
00:10:27,920 --> 00:10:32,640
empowering so many people. 
That's complicated on so many 

215
00:10:32,640 --> 00:10:34,680
levels. 
I think that's the thing. 

216
00:10:34,680 --> 00:10:37,520
It's complicated. 
And what surprise, surprise, 

217
00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:40,280
surprise, the complicated stuff 
demonises women. 

218
00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:42,240
Always women take the brunt of 
something. 

219
00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:43,920
Well, men don't have to be 
emblems. 

220
00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:46,640
Men don't have to be emblems. 
They get to be themselves. 

221
00:10:46,640 --> 00:10:50,400
To form attachments to other men
and cling to them like fucking 

222
00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:52,320
lifeboats in this bizarre 
patriarchy. 

223
00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:54,600
It's just not the same. 
No, it's not the same. 

224
00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:56,560
It doesn't mean as much. 
They don't have the same 

225
00:10:56,560 --> 00:10:58,200
relationships. 
They don't have the same 

226
00:10:58,280 --> 00:11:01,400
awareness of what they look like
in their value and their 

227
00:11:01,400 --> 00:11:03,680
relationships and how they 
compare to their peers. 

228
00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:06,280
And all of this stuff is not the
same. 

229
00:11:06,280 --> 00:11:07,640
Good start saying. 
Yeah. 

230
00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:09,760
And it's kind of what you were 
saying about women becoming 

231
00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:12,880
emblems of like, just 
stereotypes rather than like, 

232
00:11:12,880 --> 00:11:15,840
full human individuals. 
It made me think of this is not 

233
00:11:15,840 --> 00:11:18,280
really relevant. 
But in New Girl, when there was 

234
00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:21,480
a conversation about the two 
main girls having fringes. 

235
00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:22,280
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

236
00:11:22,440 --> 00:11:25,320
And like how that was so like, 
Oh my God, I can't believe they 

237
00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:26,720
let the two of us have bangs. 
Yeah. 

238
00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:29,000
So it must be so confusing to 
the audience to have two 

239
00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:32,040
characters with with brown hair 
and and bangs. 

240
00:11:32,040 --> 00:11:33,120
Whatever. 
It's just like. 

241
00:11:34,080 --> 00:11:35,800
It's great look by the way, I 
must say. 

242
00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:37,200
Beautiful. 
What a great. 

243
00:11:37,680 --> 00:11:39,440
Look, they both can't. 
Be topped. 

244
00:11:39,520 --> 00:11:41,280
Yeah. 
I don't know. 

245
00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:44,320
It's just no wonder that there's
like not much room to speak 

246
00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:47,600
about something that feels so 
dirty. 

247
00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:50,000
I just feel like jealousy is 
such a dirty word and I love a 

248
00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:53,480
dirty word. 
It is something really, it just 

249
00:11:53,480 --> 00:11:56,920
feels like like if you were to 
say, oh, there's there's this 

250
00:11:56,920 --> 00:11:59,280
girl I'm really jealous of my 
mate said this blah, blah, blah.

251
00:11:59,280 --> 00:12:01,400
It just you've got me like that.
I'm. 

252
00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:05,360
Yeah, it's just like. 
Is because it's just so in the 

253
00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:07,160
dark. 
It's so fucking in the dark. 

254
00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:11,760
Like I can probably count on one
hand the amount of times that 

255
00:12:11,760 --> 00:12:14,240
someone has like that. 
I've had that conversation 

256
00:12:14,280 --> 00:12:18,080
really of someone being like, 
I'm really jealous of this 

257
00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:21,760
person and like going into it. 
That's not a conversation I've 

258
00:12:21,760 --> 00:12:24,360
had that many times. 
No, I said publicly on this 

259
00:12:24,360 --> 00:12:25,920
podcast, I'm really jealous of 
Moya. 

260
00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:27,920
Do you remember? 
Which actually is not that. 

261
00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:29,960
Person. 
That's so interesting because 

262
00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:31,960
you never said the name. 
I did. 

263
00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:33,800
I did say the name because I 
think about it often. 

264
00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:36,120
No, no, you're thinking of 
someone else that I didn't say 

265
00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:37,680
the name. 
OK, injuring because I remember 

266
00:12:37,680 --> 00:12:39,920
you saying that you're really 
jealous of of this girl, an 

267
00:12:39,920 --> 00:12:41,440
influencer and you wouldn't say 
the name and I was. 

268
00:12:41,560 --> 00:12:43,640
Like I'm still I'm still jealous
of her and I still won't say the

269
00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:45,760
name, but I will say more 
because it feels like hearted. 

270
00:12:46,120 --> 00:12:48,400
And that's the thing. 
Even that I'm ranking my it's 

271
00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:50,560
like I'm jealous of more in a 
way that I look at her and I 

272
00:12:50,560 --> 00:12:53,840
think can't be top. 
She's like, that's I mean, yeah,

273
00:12:53,840 --> 00:12:56,240
it's perfect piece. 
That's that's a perfect piece 

274
00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:00,080
piece as in a masterpiece, not 
like a side piece. 

275
00:13:02,040 --> 00:13:03,920
That's the perfect thing that 
I'm looking at. 

276
00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:07,880
And I wish and that and that 
feels OK to throw away basically

277
00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:11,000
because I was thinking sometimes
it it comes back to haunt me and

278
00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:14,120
I think a bit weird maybe that I
vocalize that and I think it's 

279
00:13:14,120 --> 00:13:15,160
OK. 
It's all right. 

280
00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:16,800
I can vocalize that. 
Whereas if it's the other girl 

281
00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:19,880
that we were just that you said 
I didn't name, that fucking 

282
00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:21,240
stings. 
It can't. 

283
00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:23,560
I won't speak about it. 
Yeah, I can't. 

284
00:13:23,560 --> 00:13:27,200
I struggle, I think, to be 
jealous of people on social 

285
00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:28,520
media. 
That's good. 

286
00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:29,520
I don't. 
And how do you finish? 

287
00:13:29,560 --> 00:13:32,760
That man. 
Well, I don't follow any 

288
00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:35,320
influences. 
I don't think like my, my feed 

289
00:13:35,320 --> 00:13:42,120
is not my feed is very binary in
terms of like people that I know

290
00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:44,600
or celebrities that I love. 
Same. 

291
00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:48,120
Whereas influencers has a, 
there's such a middle ground 

292
00:13:48,120 --> 00:13:51,040
because it's like, OK, so 
there's like a, they just exist 

293
00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:56,560
in they're normal people that 
live that like their businesses 

294
00:13:56,560 --> 00:14:00,960
in creating a life that looks 
attainable but is unattainable. 

295
00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:06,400
That's obviously the whole job 
and that is a dirty business in 

296
00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:09,000
my mind, but also love the 
vibes. 

297
00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:12,160
But like that, that isn't what 
I'm seeing so much. 

298
00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:15,160
So I don't necessarily have like
a load of people or I don't have

299
00:14:15,160 --> 00:14:17,320
like people that I'm like, OK, 
that I don't know. 

300
00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:20,600
I just don't really, it's either
people that like, I only really 

301
00:14:20,600 --> 00:14:24,120
follow people that like truly 
I'm like yeah, vibes like not. 

302
00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:28,960
I don't follow that many people.
It's not even about following 

303
00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:30,480
them. 
But they're getting you on the 

304
00:14:30,480 --> 00:14:32,520
explore page I. 
Can see them though, they're 

305
00:14:32,520 --> 00:14:34,240
everywhere. 
They don't come to me on the 

306
00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:34,920
explore page. 
They. 

307
00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:36,720
Do my TikTok has got this 
specific thing? 

308
00:14:36,880 --> 00:14:40,080
Well, I can't even. 
Let's say this girl is called 

309
00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:43,480
any name. 
Sabrina Carpenter. 

310
00:14:43,560 --> 00:14:47,400
Let's call her any name. 
Any name So I have a little. 

311
00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:49,680
Look on any name and I think 
fuck me. 

312
00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:52,320
And then I keep looking just a 
little bit longer, that's what. 

313
00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:56,440
The most human thing to do. 60 
to 90 seconds here, so sue me. 

314
00:14:56,440 --> 00:14:58,760
I hope my hands up. 
I saw something I thought was 

315
00:14:58,760 --> 00:15:00,320
interesting. 
Maybe I took a peek at the 

316
00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:02,320
captions and the comments. 
Yeah, big deal. 

317
00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:05,080
Two days later, any name has 
posted? 

318
00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:06,960
You checked out their post 
previously? 

319
00:15:06,960 --> 00:15:10,640
Want to take a look? 
You're on my home screen of my 

320
00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:12,120
phone. 
I'm not on the app. 

321
00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:16,800
You can came to me and you said 
Erin or Ali Kui can't take a 

322
00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:19,600
peek at my fine wares and I on a
weekday. 

323
00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:23,840
Fine, Yes, I clicked, I clicked.
Of course you do reinforced it. 

324
00:15:24,120 --> 00:15:26,760
But it's not in two days time 
any name comes back to me. 

325
00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:29,120
I can't help it. 
So also you're only doing what 

326
00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:33,000
it's designed to do, as we know.
Like it's not like you're going 

327
00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:35,520
to get something rainy there. 
You're very much going with the 

328
00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:38,400
river that it's laid out. 
Yes, like I know. 

329
00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:40,400
Of course you do. 
I know. 

330
00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:46,240
I have just recalled at a time, 
yeah, I've just recalled a 

331
00:15:46,360 --> 00:15:48,960
horrible experience almost of 
the youth doing the saying the 

332
00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:50,480
thing of like, oh, and you 
clicked. 

333
00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:52,520
I don't think I've even spoken 
to you about this. 

334
00:15:53,640 --> 00:15:57,440
Did I tell you that I looked at 
the guy that I used to date 

335
00:15:57,600 --> 00:16:01,080
Instagram, who? 
He's got a new girlfriend who? 

336
00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:03,720
If I said where? 
Well, I would say to you, this 

337
00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:05,280
needs to get caught. 
Wow. 

338
00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:09,560
OK, so the big is a big one. 
It's a big name. 

339
00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:15,080
It's a big name, you know, and. 
What was so? 

340
00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:18,120
That was a sour taste for me. 
Well, what was crazy? 

341
00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:20,960
OK, so that's that's nothing to 
me having a shit like this guy 

342
00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:23,640
in what, 2 years? 
That's fine to me. 

343
00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:26,760
The thing that was the kicker, 
fucking crazy. 

344
00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:29,680
And This is why it's like that. 
The clicking is inevitable, but 

345
00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:32,240
the things that cause me 
jealousy are the things that, 

346
00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:35,760
like, feel a little bit more 
like, OK, that's actually about 

347
00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:39,480
me. 
Like like, OK, so oh God, I 

348
00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:41,040
don't know. 
So when I was. 

349
00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:43,280
Like when was there? 
This was like, this was like, 

350
00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:45,280
honestly, when I lived in my old
house, this was like 3 months 

351
00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:46,400
ago. 
Fuck me. 

352
00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:49,000
Yeah, there's ages ago. 
OK, OK, Because I don't feel 

353
00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:51,200
anything about it, but I do. 
I do think it's just like social

354
00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:53,840
media is a fucking dangerous 
game, especially when it's your 

355
00:16:53,840 --> 00:16:55,840
real life is like coming to you 
in this weird way. 

356
00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:56,880
It's like things I shouldn't 
know. 

357
00:16:57,080 --> 00:16:58,560
This guy lives in a different 
country for. 

358
00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:01,360
Example, really similar, not 
similar, but like I have a 

359
00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:03,760
really funny thing, a similar 
thing in this. 

360
00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:06,160
I can't say it on here, but OK. 
Yeah, yeah. 

361
00:17:06,599 --> 00:17:08,720
Intriguing. 
It's not that intriguing. 

362
00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:12,240
I'm it's just almost it's one of
those things that I can't even 

363
00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:15,400
by acknowledging it, it makes it
look like I care in this, but 

364
00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:17,760
this is the. 
Telling this is the thing and I 

365
00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:19,640
don't care. 
I don't care. 

366
00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:23,119
You make me care. 
It's not. 

367
00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:26,520
Also I do. 
Care in that this person was a 

368
00:17:26,520 --> 00:17:29,640
big deal to me in my life and 
also God. 

369
00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:31,360
It's it. 
Was a very near miss, yeah. 

370
00:17:31,360 --> 00:17:34,080
So this person is not in my life
in any way. 

371
00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:37,440
Don't wish him great vibes. 
Like whatever didn't work out 

372
00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:40,000
between us. 
Yeah, we were on holiday 

373
00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:44,880
together and there was this 
moment where kind of was a 

374
00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:49,160
moment in my life where I 
realized this is not going to 

375
00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:50,640
work. 
We're in to like, completely 

376
00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:52,880
different. 
Like we're having two different 

377
00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:56,560
experiences, which was a moment 
where we stood by like, this 

378
00:17:56,560 --> 00:18:01,000
water and I was like, OK, so 
this is going to be like a bit 

379
00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:03,240
of a romantic moment. 
We're like sitting by the water 

380
00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:07,720
in the evening. 
And instead of saying something 

381
00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:09,600
romantic, I don't know if I've 
told this on the podcast before,

382
00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:11,400
he said. 
I used to think Katy Perry was 

383
00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:15,920
really hot. 
Yes. 

384
00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:19,120
What He chose to say instead. 
And I thought, oh, OK, so I've 

385
00:18:19,120 --> 00:18:22,320
written a narrative because if 
he was on the same page as me, 

386
00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:24,200
that would not have been said in
that moment. 

387
00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:25,680
That kind of speaks volumes to 
me. 

388
00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:27,320
Yeah. 
OK, cool. 

389
00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:31,480
I go on his page 2, There's 2 
two years ago. 

390
00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:34,520
Think he's he's not Not relevant
in my life at all. 

391
00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:36,320
No. 
But wish him well, go on his 

392
00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:38,480
page or type in his name fully 
typed in. 

393
00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:40,000
I don't follow him anymore. 
OK, So what? 

394
00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:42,360
Before we even keep going, what 
came over you then in that 

395
00:18:42,360 --> 00:18:45,000
moment? 
I genuinely think how he is. 

396
00:18:45,360 --> 00:18:47,840
OK. 
Wonder how he is, Wonder what's 

397
00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:50,320
going on. 
Wouldn't be the first time I've 

398
00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:51,240
done that. 
Two years. 

399
00:18:51,320 --> 00:18:53,600
I know, I know. 
Goodness me, that's just a 

400
00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:55,520
normal just, you know, I would 
like to see just. 

401
00:18:55,520 --> 00:18:57,040
Checking in. 
Not something I do that 

402
00:18:57,040 --> 00:18:59,480
regularly, but more than that. 
Well, it is intriguing 

403
00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:01,520
sometimes, isn't. 
It sometimes you think wonder 

404
00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:04,840
what's going on in your life. 
Yeah, but just, you know, how's 

405
00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:06,800
it going on that downhill slope 
you're on? 

406
00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:13,000
From your interaction. 
With me like you know how how's 

407
00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:14,840
the? 
Skating joke. 

408
00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:19,200
No, it was slow. 
We're just adding to the 

409
00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:21,120
character law here of this 
individual. 

410
00:19:21,120 --> 00:19:24,120
Yeah, I thought. 
Wonder how this dude is doing. 

411
00:19:24,560 --> 00:19:27,320
Went on his thing. 
Picture of a girl. 

412
00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:30,160
Picture of a girl. 
I click. 

413
00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:33,800
But just her, on her own. 
No, it it was just like a photo 

414
00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:35,040
of like. 
Of them. 

415
00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:38,840
No, not of them, but like it was
sort of like I literally would 

416
00:19:38,840 --> 00:19:40,240
like her having a drink or 
something. 

417
00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:42,640
Oh right. 
So I was like, OK fucking click.

418
00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:44,880
Yeah, just intrigued to see 
what's going on your. 

419
00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:50,200
Sister looks different. 
Dude is this normal or is this 

420
00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:51,240
mad? 
And really? 

421
00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:54,280
Freaky and sad normal. 
I think it's normal. 

422
00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:56,560
It's normal. 
Don't tell me if you disagree. 

423
00:19:56,680 --> 00:19:59,920
Clicked on the girl. 
She, she looks like you. 

424
00:19:59,920 --> 00:20:01,720
No, looks nothing like me. 
OK. 

425
00:20:01,720 --> 00:20:03,560
She is blonde though when I was 
blonde at the time. 

426
00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:06,680
So OK I was like OK fine all. 
Right, fine, I. 

427
00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:09,960
Would have been devastated if 
she did that like me now because

428
00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:12,920
if she was just by reading 
bangs, it's just almost like. 

429
00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:15,280
We can't have two characters if 
you like me. 

430
00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:17,680
Bangs, you don't love me now, 
right? 

431
00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:21,560
So there's a photo that she 
posts of them standing by the 

432
00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:24,760
water. 
The same fucking scene, 

433
00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:26,880
basically. 
It is the same place. 

434
00:20:27,120 --> 00:20:30,200
No, no, but it's in in where he 
lives. 

435
00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:34,040
Yeah, yeah, where he lives. 
City by the water romantic 

436
00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:36,000
moment. 
And it was just really one of 

437
00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:37,960
those things of being like, OK, 
Did is that. 

438
00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:39,680
Like you saw water with her. 
Great. 

439
00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:41,320
Almost. 
Did you talk about Katy Perry 

440
00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:42,360
then? 
Maybe. 

441
00:20:42,360 --> 00:20:44,000
Did you say I think Katy Perry's
hot? 

442
00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:44,920
Did you say that? 
Then? 

443
00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:46,560
No. 
But wait, can we say the bit 

444
00:20:46,560 --> 00:20:48,960
where he made it better by 
saying I don't think she's hot 

445
00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:50,960
anymore after she cut her hair 
and became a mother? 

446
00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:57,400
But he did say because I went, I
clearly went, said did some 

447
00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:01,480
weird reaction and was like 
okay, freaking fine. 

448
00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:04,360
And then he said not anymore 
though. 

449
00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:07,000
And it's like. 
That make it better, yeah. 

450
00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:09,600
That's so much worse. 
So that was that. 

451
00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:17,120
Well, he's out there somewhere. 
So I do find jealousy on social 

452
00:21:17,120 --> 00:21:19,800
media, but it's just not 
influences that do to me girls 

453
00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:22,320
I've never met. 
No, but sometimes not even 

454
00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:24,520
influences just it's just 
beautiful girls. 

455
00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:26,440
No, but she wasn't wasn't a 
beautiful girl. 

456
00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:28,480
No, no, I don't mean, I mean for
me. 

457
00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:31,400
She wasn't. 
She wasn't beautiful. 

458
00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:35,160
Sorry. 
But she was a beautiful girl. 

459
00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:37,280
But my point is, I'm not jealous
of her beauty. 

460
00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:40,680
I'm jealous of the moment that 
she got that I would have wanted

461
00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:42,720
totally. 
That's what it was and. 

462
00:21:43,120 --> 00:21:47,240
I it was you're inside the scene
I constructed in my mind. 

463
00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:49,200
Yeah, you got it. 
And I got. 

464
00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:51,920
But you did too. 
Fucking to not even you know 

465
00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:54,040
this is not your boyfriend. 
This is a scrap. 

466
00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:56,800
Essentially, we can minimize. 
We can minimize, but also it was

467
00:21:56,800 --> 00:21:58,360
a big, it was a big deal. 
It was. 

468
00:21:58,360 --> 00:21:58,960
It was a big. 
Deal. 

469
00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:02,160
It was a big deal, but just 
like, like you didn't want him 

470
00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:05,200
and I want. 
But I didn't want him after the 

471
00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:08,080
action. 
Like I did want him until there 

472
00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:11,280
were a load of actions that 
meant I didn't want him. 

473
00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:14,880
And that was a real point. 
That was like one of the 

474
00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:19,960
cementing decisions of like, 
okay, it wasn't just that 

475
00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:22,560
because that's actually also not
that bad, but it was just a. 

476
00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:24,680
Moment. 
It feeds into a bigger thing, 

477
00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:26,760
doesn't it? 
There were so many weird things,

478
00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:29,480
but. 
Look, these things happen. 

479
00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:32,280
Yeah, these things happen. 
I'm dying to hear what your one 

480
00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:37,360
was, what this can't say on air.
Oh God, it just makes it. 

481
00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:40,360
It's almost like, am I writing a
book about this? 

482
00:22:40,360 --> 00:22:42,400
It's almost if I didn't have a 
podcast. 

483
00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:44,760
No, but in the way of like if we
didn't have a podcast and 

484
00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:47,200
whatever, it could be something 
that I mentioned in passing to 

485
00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:49,000
one or two friends. 
Totally. 

486
00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:52,960
Yeah, but all of a sudden it's 
like this meant so much to you, 

487
00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:56,000
hey, that you came to the pod 
and said I wouldn't mind saying 

488
00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:58,600
that in front of a microphone. 
But I also think that's the 

489
00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:01,200
lesson of having a podcast. 
Like, for example, that moment 

490
00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:03,520
did not mean that I almost 
forgot I did it because I 

491
00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:05,560
haven't mentioned it to you 
since it happened. 

492
00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:07,880
But suddenly with the 
microphone, things start coming 

493
00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:10,680
out, you know, like suddenly got
things to say. 

494
00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:12,720
It doesn't mean you think about 
it every night. 

495
00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:15,000
No, definitely not. 
But isn't that funny when 

496
00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:18,760
sometimes it feels like almost 
the medium of which you deliver 

497
00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:21,320
information adds to the level of
import? 

498
00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:23,440
It's like the difference between
a text and a voice note. 

499
00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:26,400
Or a totally if. 
It's like I need to say this on 

500
00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:28,640
FaceTime versus like 
impersonally. 

501
00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:31,040
Break. 
Up like the medium is so 

502
00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:34,040
integral to It's like when we 
see a transcript of the episode,

503
00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:38,680
it's like, whoa, in Britain, it 
sounds so brute, and I hope that

504
00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:44,720
isn't how it comes off aloud. 
I'll tell you off air, OK on 

505
00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:46,240
that. 
I'll look forward to that. 

506
00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:47,720
This is almost. 
Don't. 

507
00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:50,320
It's actually, I couldn't tell 
you how, nothing it was it just 

508
00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:52,800
if you knew it. 
Too much for a podcast, too 

509
00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:54,520
little for real life I kind of 
get. 

510
00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:57,120
It it's totally nothing, but 
it's just the kind of thing 

511
00:23:57,120 --> 00:24:01,720
where it's too recognizable and 
it it's just not worth that. 

512
00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:06,000
OK, yeah, not worth the rest. 
OK, I'm liking where this is 

513
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:08,080
going. 
Yeah, I do think it's 

514
00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:11,520
interesting thinking about when 
jealousy feels the worst. 

515
00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:15,200
It is like in terms of is it 
worth like we were having just 

516
00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:17,200
before we started the 
conversation of is it worse in a

517
00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:19,120
relationship? 
Is it worse with your friends? 

518
00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:22,040
Like romantic jealousy versus 
like. 

519
00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:24,400
Feeling jealous of a friend. 
Yeah, I think it is. 

520
00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:26,640
Here was my take before we've 
recorded. 

521
00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:28,400
I don't know. 
I could be swayed either way. 

522
00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:32,240
Yeah, I think it's worse with a 
friend because with with a 

523
00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:34,960
romantic thing, you're expecting
that feeling to come up like 

524
00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:36,960
you're expecting. 
OK, so we've made this weird 

525
00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:40,360
deal that there's two of us and 
there's no one else. 

526
00:24:40,360 --> 00:24:43,120
There's no like, which I have 
more scope to acknowledge it as 

527
00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:44,160
well. 
Yeah. 

528
00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:47,960
And it's also like, that is part
of a healthy relationship 

529
00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:51,280
feeling that it's almost quite 
romantic and of like, obviously 

530
00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:53,360
in a fucked way, we've 
romanticized like that feeling 

531
00:24:53,360 --> 00:24:56,720
of like possessiveness and like,
Oh my God, he felt jealous when 

532
00:24:56,720 --> 00:24:58,680
this person spoke to me, 
whatever the fuck, all of that 

533
00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:00,360
that. 
You do that way. 

534
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:02,640
It's stunning, yeah. 
But that there is that. 

535
00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:05,720
And also then there's like the 
horrible I. 

536
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:07,960
Don't want to be the one feeling
jealous, obviously. 

537
00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:10,840
But also there's a bit of it 
that's like, it's not, but it 

538
00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:13,080
also kind of is. 
It's a part of the. 

539
00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:15,840
It's normal. 
It's normalized. 

540
00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:17,880
In a different way. 
Yeah, I was just listening. 

541
00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:21,800
Just probably recorded to Doja 
Khan, that jealous type. 

542
00:25:23,360 --> 00:25:27,240
Yeah, it sounds just like that. 
It's like there's a it's for 

543
00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:29,080
it's, it's a normal thing to be 
jealous in relationships. 

544
00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:32,840
That's fine. 
Obviously there are, there's it 

545
00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:35,320
can, you know, whatever, there's
the spectrum to it. 

546
00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:37,160
You don't be feeling it too 
much, but like there is space 

547
00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:39,240
within that. 
Whereas with friendships, it's 

548
00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:42,400
like there's only certain ones 
that kind of trigger that it's 

549
00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:44,960
not. 
You better keep that to 

550
00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:46,480
yourself. 
You better work. 

551
00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:51,520
Yeah, on your own, psycho. 
It doesn't feel, it doesn't feel

552
00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:54,360
like there's room to discuss 
that really, unless you're 

553
00:25:54,360 --> 00:25:56,960
bringing up like you have to be 
pretty close to really, I think 

554
00:25:56,960 --> 00:25:59,520
for your friendships to be able 
to like bear that weight almost 

555
00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:02,760
of something that like, how are 
we going to navigate that? 

556
00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:05,040
Specific 1 isn't it? 
I don't know the last time I was

557
00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:07,280
jealous of a friend if I really 
think about it. 

558
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:11,680
Let me think. 
It's almost like when I was 

559
00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:13,440
younger. 
I have like more stories of 

560
00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:17,080
like, oh, like almost like my 
people from school that I'd be 

561
00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:18,880
like. 
But it was almost always more in

562
00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:23,320
like a, like a, yeah, like a 
competitive way I think, I 

563
00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:25,400
think. 
It can come out like in like if 

564
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:28,640
it's like someone got a 
promotion that you wanted, but 

565
00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:31,040
it's different. 
It's not your friendship because

566
00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:33,080
are we talking about as well? 
There are different levels of 

567
00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:35,320
almost you're comparing yourself
to your friend. 

568
00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:39,480
Yeah. 
Or is it almost being jealous of

569
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:41,880
your friends closeness with 
somebody else? 

570
00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:44,080
That is implication of yeah, go 
on. 

571
00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:48,280
That is the difference between 
jealousy and envy, that whole 

572
00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:50,520
thing which I know you don't 
like, I know you don't like, but

573
00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:54,680
that is the definition of that. 
So jealousy is that feeling of 

574
00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:57,400
possessiveness that you are 
looking at what they have. 

575
00:26:57,640 --> 00:26:59,600
What? 
So you're wanting your best 

576
00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:01,720
friend to be your. 
You want it to be like mutual. 

577
00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:03,920
If they get a new best friend 
you want to like, keep them for 

578
00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:05,200
yourself. 
That's jealousy. 

579
00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:08,040
Envy is that feeling of 
comparison that's like, oh, I 

580
00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:10,360
want the thing that they have. 
They are different. 

581
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:13,200
So I'd like. 
I do think that envy is more 

582
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:15,360
normalized than that feeling of 
jealousy. 

583
00:27:15,360 --> 00:27:18,080
Yeah, I agree. 
Because that's quite tough when 

584
00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:20,920
it's like, especially in a 
friend that feels like way more 

585
00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:22,640
of a relationshipy thing. 
Yeah. 

586
00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:26,400
So the idea that you could be 
like, it's just more pleasant, 

587
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:28,520
isn't it? 
If I was, if I were to say to 

588
00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:32,680
you, I'm really jealous of your 
friend, any name, because she 

589
00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:34,560
gets to see you all the time, 
There's an implication of. 

590
00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:36,040
Love there that I have for. 
You. 

591
00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:38,920
Whereas if I say I'm really 
jealous of your brown hair 

592
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:40,160
bangs. 
Yeah. 

593
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:42,280
There's an implication of hate, 
resentment. 

594
00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:43,680
Yeah. 
Do you know what I mean? 

595
00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:45,720
Like, one of them carries a 
sense of like, well, you just 

596
00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:48,120
love me so much that you want me
all to yourself. 

597
00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:50,920
But the other one is like, you 
love me so much you hate me. 

598
00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:53,640
Like you resent me. 
Like you don't like my brown 

599
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:55,280
hair bangs anymore. 
You actually. 

600
00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:57,320
It's a dislike. 
Yeah. 

601
00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:00,040
And that's more grim. 
And it's important, possible to 

602
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:04,000
admit, especially as a young 
woman when it's like you just, I

603
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:06,360
mean, when did you ever, when 
did anyone ever say to you 

604
00:28:06,360 --> 00:28:10,200
growing up, tell me quickly that
it was OK to feel something ugly

605
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:11,800
towards someone that you love? 
Never. 

606
00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:13,560
Never. 
Yeah, never. 

607
00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:15,560
And it is kind of the thing of 
as well. 

608
00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:19,160
We have so many thoughts in the 
day, like thousands, hundreds of

609
00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:20,800
thousands, millions maybe. 
I don't know. 

610
00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:22,240
I don't know that I'm but it's a
lot. 

611
00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:25,840
It's a lot. 
Most of them are not true. 

612
00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:27,640
It's not your belief. 
It's not a reflection of 

613
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:31,200
anything accurate in your life. 
And I think some part of it has 

614
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:33,680
to be a normalization of like, 
things are going to come up 

615
00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:37,120
sometimes and it doesn't mean 
anything more than, yeah, a 

616
00:28:37,120 --> 00:28:40,120
passing moment sometimes. 
No, it's so true. 

617
00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:43,400
I'm yeah, because I'm. 
I've redownloaded headspace. 

618
00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:47,840
Oh yes, I've been in a 
meditating zone recently and 

619
00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:50,120
I've been doing this like one of
the courses on there. 

620
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:54,880
And it like for so long it has 
been getting me to like do the 

621
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:58,200
noting technique where it's like
you're breathing and then you're

622
00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:00,600
every time you have a thought, 
you have to be like thinking. 

623
00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:03,560
Or every time you get distracted
by like a feeling, you're like 

624
00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:07,080
feeling and you're just sort of 
labelling as it goes. 

625
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:11,760
And the whole point of the 
exercise, I'm on like day 10 of 

626
00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:13,480
it now. 
Like it's just been so fucking 

627
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:15,480
boring just doing that. 
But it's like, you just need to 

628
00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:17,840
get like comfortable with doing 
that really. 

629
00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:21,280
Because the whole point is like 
separating yourself and your 

630
00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:23,240
thoughts. 
And my dad would always say to 

631
00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:25,400
me, like he always, always, 
always says you are not your 

632
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:26,880
thoughts. 
You are not your thoughts. 

633
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:28,520
Like he just always says it to 
me. 

634
00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:31,040
And I'm always like, what the 
fuck does that mean? 

635
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:33,520
Or like, yes, OK, I can be 
separate from my thoughts, but 

636
00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:35,640
my thoughts are still ruling my 
life. 

637
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:39,920
Like these thoughts are no 
longer thoughts, they're beliefs

638
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:42,800
that drive me in certain ways. 
Yeah, like it's all very 

639
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:43,880
well-being. 
Like, yeah, okay, I know they're

640
00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:48,000
not me, but it is that thing of 
being like the classic headspace

641
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:50,880
thing of the cars passing on the
fucking Rd. 

642
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:53,000
Level 1. 
Middle of the motorway. 

643
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:55,280
What am I doing here? 
Why am I sat here in the fucking

644
00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:59,000
what's called cold shoulder, 
hard shoulder the. 

645
00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:00,680
Hard shoulder? 
Yeah, I'm giving you the cold 

646
00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:03,240
shoulder. 
On the hard shoulder, shoulder 

647
00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:06,080
watching the fucking the cars, 
the thought being like thought, 

648
00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:07,280
thought, thought or whatever the
fuck. 

649
00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:11,440
Like it does change change your 
mind so much when you do 

650
00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:12,840
realise. 
OK, so there is this sort of 

651
00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:17,480
like space behind that where I 
am like able to like point at 

652
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:20,360
them like they're not, they 
can't be me because I'm 

653
00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:22,080
literally being like, oh, 
they're. 

654
00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:25,280
Beyond it, yeah, yeah. 
And in the same way that you 

655
00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:28,440
might have that thought, or of 
whatever, I'm jealous of her, I 

656
00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:31,480
want her brown hair bangs, you 
can at the same time offer 

657
00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:35,440
something completely the 
opposite and decide which one 

658
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:37,120
you could put time into 
believing. 

659
00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:40,880
And also This is why back to the
emblems, women operating as 

660
00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:45,240
emblems of the idea that there 
can only be one girl with the 

661
00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:50,160
brown fringe or there can only 
be one girl that is she's the 

662
00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:53,640
pretty one, she's the clever 
one, she's the bitchy one, she's

663
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:57,120
the fashion one, she's the 
science 1, whatever the fuck. 

664
00:30:57,360 --> 00:31:01,880
Like those ideas that we've been
working with for like so long, 

665
00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:04,440
our whole lives for sure. 
And maybe like our parents whole

666
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:10,120
lives, if not further back that 
like stereotypical views of what

667
00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:13,120
a woman can be. 
It does make you feel like 

668
00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:14,880
there's only room for one of 
each type. 

669
00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:18,000
So I've got to set myself aside 
and be this kind of one or like,

670
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:21,520
Oh my, This is why we get 
messages like from people being 

671
00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:25,000
like, oh, my sister has always 
been highly academic and I'm 

672
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:26,160
not. 
It's like, is that true? 

673
00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:28,080
Or were you just divided like 
that and you've built that 

674
00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:30,880
narrative that she's the 
academic 1 and you're this one? 

675
00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:33,200
There is room for two clever 
girls here. 

676
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:34,640
There is room for two pretty 
girls. 

677
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:36,560
Whatever. 
There's room. 

678
00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:39,800
There's to be. 
Realistically, there is. 

679
00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:42,400
There literally is, but there 
wasn't. 

680
00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:45,440
Well, of course on planet earth 
there is, but then also in 

681
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:48,880
things like in terms of 
opportunities, it's extremely 

682
00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:51,040
limited. 
And especially for things like 

683
00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:53,600
if you're looking at like 
tokenism and like there's only 

684
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:56,040
room, we're only going to take, 
you know, like you're the one 

685
00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:59,200
black girl that we're going to 
take into this project or you're

686
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:02,080
the one plus size girl that 
we're going to take into this 

687
00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:04,320
project. 
It's like we think that these 

688
00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:07,240
spots are limited because we've 
been shown that they're so 

689
00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:09,060
limited. 
They're like limited to non 

690
00:32:09,060 --> 00:32:11,400
existent throughout our whole 
lives. 

691
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:13,040
Like of course we. 
Were those things, it's 

692
00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:15,720
different because it's like 
that's a systemic issue of like 

693
00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:19,920
there is one spot that is being 
given, which then feeds the 

694
00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:23,200
thing of the. 
It's not only just comparison at

695
00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:24,920
that, at that level, it's 
actually just like a 

696
00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:27,000
competitive. 
Yeah, but I think it is just 

697
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:29,840
inherently competitive as well, 
just to be a woman in the sense 

698
00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:35,280
that it's almost like women 
can't be sloppy in the same way 

699
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:37,760
that a man could or whatever. 
It's like you say, like I'm 

700
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:42,600
doing a panel show and I want 
experts. 4 men, one woman, just,

701
00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:44,480
you know, Yeah. 
Just to keep everyone off my 

702
00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:45,280
back. 
Yeah. 

703
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:48,240
Like these sports are in it. 
It is systemic. 

704
00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:51,760
It is like there's a longevity 
here of like hundreds of years 

705
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:55,480
telling us that it's scarce for 
women. 

706
00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:58,840
He's fucked up even in like a 
yeah, it's just mental. 

707
00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:02,320
No, it is funny that like the 
idea of like, yeah, competition 

708
00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:05,960
basically with our friends and 
like the women around us is 

709
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:08,320
built into like, yeah, literally
kind of DNA. 

710
00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:10,080
Yeah. 
And it has been for men as well.

711
00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:14,400
Just in terms of like finding a 
mate, just sort of like aiming 

712
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:17,560
for the top one, the one that 
can protect your kids, whatever,

713
00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:19,240
all of that stuff. 
So many mate. 

714
00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:22,320
They do, but they've also got to
like it's. 

715
00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:25,800
Not impregnate a woman every day
for the rest of his life as in 

716
00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:29,480
like, you know, like the the 
implication that no, it's 

717
00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:31,920
completely different. 
It's men are not like, you know,

718
00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:35,560
yeah, that that sort of. 
Like it is built into them in a 

719
00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:38,000
certain way, but it is obviously
completely. 

720
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:41,400
Different it's about masculinity
and like survival of the fittest

721
00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:43,880
and like proving that you're. 
So it will be to protect 

722
00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:46,960
themselves from the men that are
going to kill. 

723
00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:52,120
Them and all of this stuff, it's
entirely different, yeah, but 

724
00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:54,280
it's still like, you know, 
there's patriarchy everywhere, 

725
00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:56,160
but like, who's taking the 
brunt? 

726
00:33:56,240 --> 00:33:59,080
It's completely different and 
like the most horrific thing 

727
00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:02,120
that that has done is turn women
against other women. 

728
00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:04,520
Like there's nothing like that 
is just the saddest thing. 

729
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:08,040
Jesus Christ. 
Like also it's it's so fucking 

730
00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:11,880
shit when you see like for 
example, that really playing out

731
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:14,600
like even taking workplace stuff
out of it. 

732
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:18,679
But like 2 girls, I actually 
don't think this ever happened 

733
00:34:18,679 --> 00:34:20,679
to me, but I've seen it happen 
before where it's like 2 friends

734
00:34:20,679 --> 00:34:22,679
that then suddenly fancy the 
same guy. 

735
00:34:23,639 --> 00:34:26,639
It's fucking horrible what that 
does. 

736
00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:32,159
Like it's just basically it 
triggers some like it must be 

737
00:34:32,159 --> 00:34:35,080
biological thing. 
And also just this idea that 

738
00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:38,000
yeah, the top spot is like a 
scarce thing and you've got to 

739
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:42,400
fucking fight to get it. 
But it does turn people quite 

740
00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:45,760
crazy. 
I'm always very grateful when I 

741
00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:47,719
have a different type to my 
friends because I always think 

742
00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:50,480
like wouldn't one would not want
that to happen to me. 

743
00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:54,920
That's gross bad. 
Also like some of my like guy 

744
00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:57,440
friends have. 
There was one that I had a 

745
00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:00,160
fucking massive go out because I
actually feel like this is so 

746
00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:02,800
horrific. 
There were two best friends and 

747
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:05,640
he was friends with them. 
Both slept, was seeing one of 

748
00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:07,480
them and then slept with the 
other one. 

749
00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:10,840
And I just thought, you don't 
know what you've done there, 

750
00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:12,440
actually. 
Like, that's just like, oh, I 

751
00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:16,080
didn't know which one I liked. 
And I was like, you know, seeing

752
00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:17,840
which one I liked more, hanging 
out with them both, blah, blah. 

753
00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:20,200
But it's like, you don't know. 
Yeah. 

754
00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:22,160
What the inside of their 
journals look like right now 

755
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:24,200
because they're not about you. 
They're about their friend. 

756
00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:26,400
They're you're turning. 
You're making two women that 

757
00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:28,120
love each other competitive with
each other. 

758
00:35:29,240 --> 00:35:31,560
I can't stand for that. 
Yeah, it has to the the 

759
00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:34,240
expectation that then these 
women must rise above it. 

760
00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:36,400
Like, yeah, that almost like 
how? 

761
00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:40,040
Could you be happy for the other
one and whilst you're no? 

762
00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:42,200
It's a lot to ask, isn't it? 
Yeah. 

763
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:44,520
And it's also, it puts you in 
quite a sick position because 

764
00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:47,840
it's almost like, yeah, it's a 
real test of your friendship. 

765
00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:50,800
And like, you see someone in a 
new light. 

766
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:52,520
It's like, oh, I thought we were
friends. 

767
00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:56,560
And then I saw how you would act
if we were in a situation where 

768
00:35:56,560 --> 00:35:58,640
you had to put your own needs 
before men, and you did. 

769
00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:00,520
And that hurts. 
And now we can't Unsee that. 

770
00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:02,400
Bye. 
Do you know what one of my least

771
00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:05,280
favorite phrases is? 
People say this all the time 

772
00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:08,600
before they cheat on someone, 
OK? 

773
00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:10,080
They say it all the fucking 
time. 

774
00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:11,960
Like, I have friends that have 
cheated on people before and 

775
00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:15,040
they've said this phrase also. 
You know me, Harry. 

776
00:36:15,240 --> 00:36:17,840
I'm listening to. 
I'm watching Made in Chelsea day

777
00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:19,520
in, day out. 
Yeah, I hear it all the time. 

778
00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:21,880
So I know this as a fact. 
People say this before they 

779
00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:24,640
cheat to their friends they say,
oh and I've got to be selfish 

780
00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:26,840
for once I've just got to put me
first for once. 

781
00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:30,840
For once they always, always, 
always fucking say, I think I've

782
00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:33,880
just got to be selfish here and 
25 year old man lives in a 

783
00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:36,240
beautiful home, His mum's still 
cooking him spaghetti bolognese 

784
00:36:36,240 --> 00:36:38,200
tonight, so I've got to be 
selfish for once. 

785
00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:41,080
Literally they all say it, but 
the girls I know have also said 

786
00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:43,680
it as well. 
I think it's a real the girls 

787
00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:46,040
that are cheated. 
It's like if you catch yourself 

788
00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:48,720
saying that phrase, I've just 
got to put myself first for once

789
00:36:48,720 --> 00:36:50,600
I've just got to be selfish for 
once. 

790
00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:56,440
I, I think that might be a 
slight flag like an alarm bell 

791
00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:59,120
ringing that you're about to 
hurt someone and you're trying 

792
00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:01,280
to justify it. 
Because I don't think that ever 

793
00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:05,960
is an excuse for being selfish. 
I don't think that is, I don't 

794
00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:07,640
think that is an excusable 
behavior. 

795
00:37:08,240 --> 00:37:10,360
And there's a better way to do 
it than the way you're about to 

796
00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:11,600
do it, I think, if you're saying
that phrase. 

797
00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:16,320
I think as well, like a lot of 
people probably do feel like it 

798
00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:19,320
is kind of a, well, it's totally
a symptom of for women as well, 

799
00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:22,480
particularly like living your 
whole life for other people and 

800
00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:26,040
in service of and never even 
acknowledging like what you 

801
00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:30,120
might actually want or like the 
awareness of like being able to 

802
00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:32,920
validate how you feel about 
something. 

803
00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:35,680
It kind of makes it just makes 
perfect sense, doesn't it, that 

804
00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:38,200
you spend your whole life 
denying that you could ever want

805
00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:40,680
or need anything and then having
a kind of brink of a moment 

806
00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:43,200
where someone gave attention and
you thought, fuck it, yeah, I 

807
00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:44,520
just need to be selfish for 
once. 

808
00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:45,800
This guy wants to fuck me, let's
go. 

809
00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:48,240
Like it makes happens very 
naturally. 

810
00:37:48,440 --> 00:37:53,720
Definitely. 
But I think like, yes, I can 

811
00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:55,720
like totally. 
That's of course how things 

812
00:37:55,720 --> 00:37:56,720
work. 
But like, yeah, you've been 

813
00:37:56,720 --> 00:37:59,440
denying your needs for like. 
In one scenario. 

814
00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:01,520
For certain. 
But that is sort of what like, I

815
00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:03,440
almost think like. 
That's the classic tale, hey? 

816
00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:07,800
Or like for example, most 
commonly when women cheat or 

817
00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:11,200
like when most men cheat, it 
will be like out of impulse and 

818
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:14,440
like a sexual desire and just 
like they feel entitled to do 

819
00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:15,880
that. 
Whereas often when women cheat, 

820
00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:18,240
it's because they've been 
denying their needs and like 

821
00:38:18,240 --> 00:38:22,200
performing for a long time and 
they enter into like an affair 

822
00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:25,520
essentially with like quite a 
lot of like awareness of the 

823
00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:27,560
fact they're doing it. 
It's never just like a slip up 

824
00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:29,640
or it's most commonly not a slip
up. 

825
00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:32,560
It's like a very premeditated 
build up of things. 

826
00:38:33,720 --> 00:38:36,560
I have more sympathy for women 
obviously wanting to be selfish,

827
00:38:37,720 --> 00:38:42,920
but I don't. 
I have heard it one too many, so

828
00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:44,840
many times actually, where 
people say that I've just got to

829
00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:46,800
be selfish for once. 
It's like maybe don't be. 

830
00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:49,840
I think it's a symptom of never 
is that you didn't acknowledge 

831
00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:52,400
what you wanted incrementally 
for the past six months and now.

832
00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:55,360
I think that's the problem. 
Or like we were having this 

833
00:38:55,360 --> 00:39:00,440
conversation back in fucking 
June, you know, like we were, we

834
00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:02,320
were building towards this. 
Yeah, yeah. 

835
00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:04,400
It was kind of obvious. 
We were setting the stone. 

836
00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:07,240
We set the. 
Yeah, we're having to wait till 

837
00:39:07,240 --> 00:39:09,720
it all blows up. 
You could just do it nicely 

838
00:39:09,720 --> 00:39:10,960
like. 
It just. 

839
00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:13,160
Sometimes you do, but you know, 
sometimes. 

840
00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:19,520
Let's aim to be nice and. 
Commutative totally, totally and

841
00:39:19,600 --> 00:39:21,040
and. 
Let's aim to validate what you 

842
00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:23,600
were feeling when you felt it 
first. 

843
00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:26,720
Definitely, and that as the 
priority. 

844
00:39:26,720 --> 00:39:29,840
Actually, I think that and also 
that's a fucking tall order. 

845
00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:33,360
Like it's hard to know how 
you're feeling like so hard. 

846
00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:35,760
But I do think that's like #1 
aim. 

847
00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:38,160
I just do love the jealousy 
chat. 

848
00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:40,600
I think I do. 
You remember I said I think 

849
00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:41,600
we've had this conversation 
before. 

850
00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:43,600
I was like, I definitely feel 
like I'm more jealous than other

851
00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:45,560
people. 
I think everyone will think that

852
00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:47,200
though. 
No, because some people are 

853
00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:50,960
quite good in terms of as well, 
like, you know, some people are 

854
00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:53,880
not jealous. 
I know it, I see it, I see it. 

855
00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:59,320
Do you so posh? 
Yes, I see people be like, I 

856
00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:02,000
mean this is maybe more in a 
sexual sense, but like the idea 

857
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:04,680
of someone else having sex with 
someone that I like. 

858
00:40:04,720 --> 00:40:07,280
That's horrific. 
Is absolutely repulsive 

859
00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:10,640
recurrent to me, whereas. 
A lot of people it's like, I 

860
00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:13,240
could entertain that for, you 
know, a moment. 

861
00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:16,200
Like, do you know, I mean, there
are, there are arenas that other

862
00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:19,120
people are playing in that I 
cannot even it. 

863
00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:21,200
And it's not cute. 
It's not cute. 

864
00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:23,360
And I mean, I'm the jealous 
type. 

865
00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:25,880
It's like, I'm going to murder 
children in your family. 

866
00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:28,120
And now look what I've said. 
It's not likeable. 

867
00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:30,040
It's not cutesty jealousy. 
Before you know it, you're 

868
00:40:30,040 --> 00:40:32,040
saying crazy things about like, 
well, how's your relationship 

869
00:40:32,040 --> 00:40:33,200
with your mum? 
Because I might kill her. 

870
00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:36,960
It's it's so it's it's 
definitely. 

871
00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:39,240
That not just what jealousy is, 
I think it's like. 

872
00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:42,720
Maybe to its fault, I mean I 
like to tell you it's up full 

873
00:40:42,720 --> 00:40:44,720
volume, I'll take. 
That, yeah. 

874
00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:47,760
To its final. 
Conclusion I think it is 

875
00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:50,720
horrible. 
Like it's not, it's not a nice 

876
00:40:50,720 --> 00:40:52,320
thing. 
Like it objectively is not a 

877
00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:55,120
nice thing. 
Like it is not like, yeah, you 

878
00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:57,560
can do a little Dojo song about 
it and it's cute, but like what 

879
00:40:57,560 --> 00:41:00,200
she's singing about is horrible.
It's awful. 

880
00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:04,720
It's it's basically it, it 
includes, it's an umbrella term 

881
00:41:04,720 --> 00:41:07,560
for insecurity. 
Not feeling good enough, 

882
00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:10,000
thinking that other people have 
what you are going to get, what 

883
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:11,680
you want. 
It's horrible. 

884
00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:15,400
That's my hometown. 
Yeah, literally I'm from there. 

885
00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:17,400
But yes, that's me. 
That's where I'm at. 

886
00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:20,080
That's my arena. 
That's more good arena. 

887
00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:22,360
No, it's awesome. 
It's awful. 

888
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:24,680
But my instincts, I think are 
very. 

889
00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:27,520
I'm a very comparative. 
Like I just. 

890
00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:30,280
I can't. 
Yeah, my mind goes there very 

891
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:33,440
easily. 
I can be like it. 

892
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:37,040
It truly depends on the like 
season of my life. 

893
00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:40,800
Almost like there definitely are
and also like the certain things

894
00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:45,440
bring it out so much. 
But like also it's one of those 

895
00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:47,080
things that you don't notice the
absence of. 

896
00:41:47,080 --> 00:41:52,120
Like I think in this 
conversation like and when we 

897
00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:53,000
were like, OK, we're going to 
work. 

898
00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:54,800
Jealousy. 
I think I am not in a jealous 

899
00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:57,800
like period of my life. 
I think I do feel pretty like 

900
00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:01,760
confident and like my like body 
image stuff is like kind of 

901
00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:04,520
under control at the moment. 
Like I feel kind of good 

902
00:42:05,240 --> 00:42:08,400
generally about myself. 
So I'm not necessarily like 

903
00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:10,520
feeling it. 
Like jealousy is not like at the

904
00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:12,400
forefront of my life. 
It definitely has been at 

905
00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:15,480
certain times all and like 
insecurity, all of that stuff. 

906
00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:18,840
But I think the kind of sick 
thing about jealousy is that you

907
00:42:18,840 --> 00:42:20,200
don't realise when you're not 
feeling it. 

908
00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:22,200
Like, it's not like you never. 
Know when it's around the 

909
00:42:22,200 --> 00:42:23,760
corner. 
No, you definitely, you 

910
00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:25,040
definitely don't know. 
True. 

911
00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:27,280
You never know. 
But you, it's not something 

912
00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:29,640
that's like, because we don't 
speak about it, you don't think 

913
00:42:29,640 --> 00:42:31,760
of it as if it's something that 
I struggle with or blah, blah, 

914
00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:33,800
blah. 
So you're not really noticing. 

915
00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:36,320
Oh yeah, I'm not feeling that at
the moment until you talk about 

916
00:42:36,320 --> 00:42:38,360
it's like, Oh yeah, that 
actually is not like a driving 

917
00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:41,480
factor or like that doesn't 
doesn't feature in my daily life

918
00:42:41,480 --> 00:42:44,080
at the moment. 
But there was no acknowledgement

919
00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:46,480
of that. 
But just like, what the fuck is 

920
00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:48,880
that? 
Right, That thing that I have 

921
00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:51,200
experienced, where the fuck was 
the you know. 

922
00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:52,800
So I was like, why never fucking
tell me? 

923
00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:54,560
You're not feeling jealous at 
all. 

924
00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:57,000
You should be. 
You're like that should that 

925
00:42:57,000 --> 00:42:59,280
should have been right and there
should have been some kind of 

926
00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:02,960
bodily announcement to me. 
Celebration, fanfare, I don't 

927
00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:06,320
know, but like almost, it's not,
I think it's just kind of like 

928
00:43:06,320 --> 00:43:08,160
quite nice to acknowledge. 
Oh yeah, that's not really, it's

929
00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:09,360
not really a factor right now. 
So. 

930
00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:12,760
Where I'm at for now. 
For very much for now. 

931
00:43:12,760 --> 00:43:14,760
For now, give it a week. 
It could be. 

932
00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:18,480
In time anything is possible. 
In time it shall come. 

933
00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:20,000
It always does. 
Yeah. 

934
00:43:20,160 --> 00:43:22,600
It's just like an invisible 
presence, almost like it's. 

935
00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:25,080
And then it very much announces 
itself quite loudly. 

936
00:43:25,240 --> 00:43:27,480
Has anyone ever thought it's the
thief of joy before? 

937
00:43:29,080 --> 00:43:30,760
Truly has. 
Anyone ever said that? 

938
00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:32,040
Because it truly. 
It really is it. 

939
00:43:32,200 --> 00:43:34,520
It actually is. 
It kind of is, though. 

940
00:43:34,680 --> 00:43:38,280
It is when you think about it. 
Yeah, they were on something. 

941
00:43:38,560 --> 00:43:40,600
All right, this. 
It feels weird to be back, 

942
00:43:40,600 --> 00:43:42,280
doesn't it? 
Did you like that? 

943
00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:43,760
No. 
Oh. 

944
00:43:45,080 --> 00:43:47,680
No, it's not. 
Like I didn't like that. 

945
00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:50,560
I think I've been talking shit. 
I have not been like used to 

946
00:43:50,560 --> 00:43:52,680
having this back. 
OK, I'm sorry to hear that 

947
00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:53,840
because I thought that was 
really fun. 

948
00:43:55,240 --> 00:43:57,080
Well, I. 
Think when you hear it back, 

949
00:43:57,080 --> 00:43:59,920
you'll be like this is good, but
you're having a moment of come 

950
00:43:59,920 --> 00:44:03,320
on. 
No, not I'm not jealous of our 

951
00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:05,080
old apps. 
I wouldn't say, but I am 

952
00:44:05,080 --> 00:44:08,720
definitely thinking. 
I had a bit of a moment earlier,

953
00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:11,600
Sefi made a reel about fruit 
Winders. 

954
00:44:12,280 --> 00:44:13,520
Yeah. 
And I didn't tell you this. 

955
00:44:13,640 --> 00:44:15,640
I guess it was just one of the 
thoughts that I thought not 

956
00:44:15,640 --> 00:44:20,280
relevant, brush it away. 
But I said, I messaged saying 

957
00:44:20,280 --> 00:44:21,320
fruit Winder. 
Ha ha. 

958
00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:24,960
I just saw the title, like come 
through on the thing that said 

959
00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:26,480
it been downloaded. 
And I was like, oh, interesting.

960
00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:30,040
And then you said, yeah, it's 
just a silly little thing, but 

961
00:44:30,040 --> 00:44:32,520
you made a funny joke. 
And I thought it was funny. 

962
00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:35,800
And I thought, and she thought I
made a funny joke. 

963
00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:37,960
So then I thought, let me sit 
down and watch this thing. 

964
00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:39,640
And I watched her. 
And I thought, when's a funny 

965
00:44:39,640 --> 00:44:42,440
joke coming up? 
But anyway, you've made such a 

966
00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:44,400
funny joke. 
Well, I said, chew me down, 

967
00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:45,480
swallow me up. 
I don't know. 

968
00:44:45,680 --> 00:44:49,200
Well, OK, so it's literally like
a, it's just like a short real 

969
00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:52,400
buzz talking on the podcast. 
We're talking about fruit 

970
00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:53,440
winders. 
Then Wing says. 

971
00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:57,440
I feel like a screwed up front 
fruit Winder just shovel me in 

972
00:44:57,440 --> 00:44:59,240
or something like that. 
I just thought it's like it's 

973
00:44:59,240 --> 00:45:00,720
quite funny. 
It was not. 

974
00:45:00,720 --> 00:45:03,000
I'm not saying it's. 
Hilarious. 

975
00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:06,440
Someone should write that down. 
But I'm saying, yeah, that's a 

976
00:45:06,440 --> 00:45:09,360
little bit of funny something. 
I know I liked that, well more 

977
00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:12,080
so just my thought was she 
thought you made a funny joke. 

978
00:45:12,160 --> 00:45:13,640
Yeah, I did. 
Yeah, I. 

979
00:45:13,640 --> 00:45:15,480
Thought I was going to say in 
that clip I feel like a. 

980
00:45:15,480 --> 00:45:19,880
Froub true that ripped their 
heads off and sucked their guts 

981
00:45:19,880 --> 00:45:21,520
out because I do love. 
That one when? 

982
00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:22,520
We. 
Yeah, so good. 

983
00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:25,560
That was all, just sometimes I 
think about. 

984
00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:27,920
Yeah, I think it's just. 
When you compliment me, they 

985
00:45:27,920 --> 00:45:28,960
land. 
Basically, good. 

986
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:31,840
OK, good. 
I just think it's also like it's

987
00:45:31,840 --> 00:45:35,880
hard to see yourself 
objectively, like in terms of 

988
00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:39,080
the funny joke and in terms of 
me being like that was trash. 

989
00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:41,640
And by that I mean everything 
you've just listened to in the 

990
00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:42,640
last 40 minutes. 
I. 

991
00:45:42,840 --> 00:45:45,400
Liked it though, like I thought 
that was really interesting. 

992
00:45:45,400 --> 00:45:48,480
Good, I just. 
Am I giving science to say 

993
00:45:48,560 --> 00:45:50,200
otherwise? 
No, no, no, no. 

994
00:45:50,600 --> 00:45:55,040
It also it's, I think it's just 
getting used to like getting 

995
00:45:55,040 --> 00:45:58,800
back to it, hearing yourself 
talk like I, I just feel like, 

996
00:45:58,800 --> 00:46:00,920
am I talking? 
Shit, but I was gonna say this 

997
00:46:00,920 --> 00:46:02,520
is so the meat and potatoes of 
the episode. 

998
00:46:02,520 --> 00:46:04,400
This is my favorite. 
The last three minutes where we 

999
00:46:04,400 --> 00:46:07,320
start unpacking what just 
happened for the past 45 

1000
00:46:07,320 --> 00:46:08,480
minutes. 
This is my favorite. 

1001
00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:10,600
Genuinely though, is it? 
I like that, Yes. 

1002
00:46:10,600 --> 00:46:12,000
Yes. 
It's a kind of cause. 

1003
00:46:12,520 --> 00:46:14,880
Someone's like, forget all that 
shit though, What the hell? 

1004
00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:16,640
What would you say experience 
together? 

1005
00:46:16,680 --> 00:46:19,120
It's very much like holding 
hands across the fire of like 

1006
00:46:19,120 --> 00:46:21,840
the ayahuasca has calmed down 
and now we're like, how was that

1007
00:46:21,840 --> 00:46:22,880
for you? 
What's happened? 

1008
00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:27,360
I almost think it's a bit like, 
not on a parrot teeth, but 

1009
00:46:27,360 --> 00:46:29,200
what's the drink you'd have at 
the end of a meal? 

1010
00:46:29,200 --> 00:46:32,760
It's kind of the bit of a cheese
board That's yeah, it's 

1011
00:46:32,760 --> 00:46:35,120
literally it's just like a 
little coffee at the end of the 

1012
00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:38,200
meal. 
Just like how was that? 

1013
00:46:38,440 --> 00:46:41,200
I love that bit. 
Post credit scene. 

1014
00:46:41,200 --> 00:46:44,840
It's not, but yeah, yeah, yeah, 
post credit scene. 

1015
00:46:45,400 --> 00:46:47,560
I like that. 
OK, fine, fine. 

1016
00:46:47,600 --> 00:46:48,720
I'll go. 
I'll go. 

1017
00:46:50,240 --> 00:46:52,120
Well, thanks. 
Thank you so much. 

1018
00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:54,720
And if you don't hear from us, 
you don't hear from us. 

1019
00:46:54,920 --> 00:46:56,440
Assume the worst.