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I find with a lot of teams when 
you arrive is they've already 

2
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had great ideas, but some reason
they've not be able to execute 

3
00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:06,600
that. 
So it's kind of how do I unlock 

4
00:00:06,600 --> 00:00:08,400
that? 
How do I help them to execute on

5
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these great ideas? 
This is David Turner. 

6
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He's the CTO quietly 
transforming Virgin Active into 

7
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one of the most data-driven 
Wellness brands in the world. 

8
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Before this, he helped lead EU 
KS national digital response 

9
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during COVID. 
Now he's focused on solving one 

10
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of the hardest problems in 
business. 

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How do you build products people
actually use and stick with 

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Virgin Active? 
The mission really is to 

13
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actually help people to stay 
healthy, to stay fit. 

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It's mentally strong, certainly 
something that gets me out of 

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bed in the morning. 
You were part of I just did you 

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join during the COVID? 
I did. 

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What's the first three months 
like? 

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A It was it was 24/7 working. 
There was no Saturday and Sunday

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day off. 
It was constantly working around

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the clock. 
There is a graduate right now 

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and graduating from the 
university and they want to have

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the career that you have. 
What is your advice though? 

23
00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:03,720
So David, it's very good to see 
you. 

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Good to see you. 
Thanks a lot for coming. 

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Thank you. 
I'm incredibly excited to do 

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this discussion together. 
Like before coming into the for 

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the episode, we started speaking
about improving EU KS, 

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engineering and so on. 
Like if, if, if the government 

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is watching or if, if, if, if, 
if someone from for from the 

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position of power is watching. 
What is your advice for the UK 

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for the improvement of 
engineering? 

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You have spent so many years 
into this this area, So what 

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would you advise people? 
Where should we they invest? 

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Where should they spend their 
time? 

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Sure. 
Yeah. 

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I mean, it's a great question 
because it's key to a lot of 

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things that we're trying to do 
for the future. 

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For me, engineering, the 
software engineering, the 

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mechanical engineering, me 
coming from the software 

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engineering background, I think 
we've always tried in the UK to 

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try and mirror what you see in 
San Francisco is Silicon Valley.

42
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But I think the the real key is 
to try and find niche, but then 

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try to get the talent from 
universities, bring them in, 

44
00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:11,440
invest in the town early, stay 
relevant to industry, to the 

45
00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:13,880
company's organizations as well.
But. 

46
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Where does it stem from? 
Why the imitation from Silicon 

47
00:02:18,280 --> 00:02:19,480
Valley? 
I think it's just seen as being 

48
00:02:19,960 --> 00:02:22,080
from a software engineering 
perspective, it's always been 

49
00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:25,480
kind of cool hip to look at 
what's going on over there. 

50
00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:28,400
And they seem to working 
particularly at pace Agile. 

51
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And let's be honest, most of the
large technical organizations 

52
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kind of have their roots there. 
So he's trying to kind of mimic 

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that success in some respects. 
But I think that kind of has 

54
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gone and it's now more about 
looking at the kind of niche 

55
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areas. 
You know, obviously with AI, 

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there's lots of areas down in 
the AI space that you could look

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to kind of become more niche, 
but also feeding that into 

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universities because get the 
talent early, the curious minds,

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people working on things that 
are relevant. 

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I think a lot of universities 
still are very academic and 

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focus on kind of textbook. 
I think it's much more useful to

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get them engaged with things 
like hackathons with 

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organisations, get them actually
trying to solve real world 

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problems early as part of the 
degree course rather than 

65
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waiting till they actually 
finish the course and then throw

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into the kind of the kind of 
real world of, of of of 

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commerce. 
So that would be one thing I 

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think as well, investment, it 
does need a large amount of 

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capital investment. 
And I think the kind of 

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government needs to kind of 
recognise that it's, it doesn't 

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come for free. 
And usually that will be the 

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citizens and organisations that 
will have to kind of stump up 

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the funds to to do it. 
I also like kind of twists 

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around encouraging more women 
into technology. 

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I think that's been a focus in 
this country certainly for the 

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last couple of years and it's 
great to see that. 

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And I think we're starting to 
see the fruits of that. 

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And you know, long may that 
continue as well. 

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My daughter, she's a mechanical 
engineer and she's recently 

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started with the Mercedes 
Patronus AMG F1 team. 

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It's great. 
And, and again, that's a great 

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example and actually explore, 
I've been, I've been AF1 fan 

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myself, but not really gone down
to the depths. 

84
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Now my daughter's in it. 
So I, I get a little bit more 

85
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interested now and it's great to
see the investment there in, in 

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the Midlands. 
They're based in Brackley. 

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Audi, I think are going to open 
a campus in, in Bicester and, 

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and all that kind of area there.
You've got McLaren and there's a

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huge investment. 
I think this has been happening 

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for many years. 
Do we know where this stems 

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00:04:26,920 --> 00:04:29,760
from? 
Well, I think motorsport in the 

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UK, not at scale, not like large
automotive, but like motorsport 

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is always, the UK is always kind
of led the way there in 

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engineering. 
And I think it's continuing. 

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And I think universities play a 
part there in, in kind of making

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00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:48,240
sure we've got the right talent 
coming out who can actually take

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00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:51,320
part and, and actually have 
relevant skills hit the ground 

98
00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:53,640
running. 
But it's, it's always been, and 

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we've got a great, you know, 
we've got Silverstone F1, which 

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I think has grown in strength. 
I, I've remember going to see 

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Michael Schumacher race there. 
And I think that at one point 

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there were talk about canning 
Silverstone as, as a, as a, as a

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kind of venue. 
I think there's been huge 

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investment there. 
And it's, I think this year, I 

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think over the weekend, there's 
like 400,000 people attended. 

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So it's the biggest sporting 
event in the UK. 

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And you know, so some people 
it's a car racing on a trap. 

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But this, I get fascinated by 
the data, yeah, and and the the 

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techniques. 
It's not just about the drive. 

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I mean, the drivers at tenths of
milliseconds separate them, but 

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it's about the strategies, the 
tire changing, the engineering 

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behind it. 
You know, on that, I think there

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00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:40,640
is a big parallel with 
exercising because there's so 

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many of the cycling brands, but 
actually using a lot of the data

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measurement from from Formula 
One and they shutting them down 

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00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:54,360
and they make them like what's 
the tire pressure, what's the 

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speed of the vehicle and so on. 
And they miniaturize the 

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00:05:59,360 --> 00:06:01,560
technology moving them to 
cyclists. 

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00:06:01,560 --> 00:06:03,640
And then cyclists know a lot 
more information. 

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So from a data perspective, how 
do you see like what do you see 

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00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:12,200
the measuring in, in F1, what's 
what and what do they do with 

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00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:14,440
that information? 
Well, I mean, I, I'm personally,

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I'm, I'm a fan rather than an 
expert in this area, but I, I 

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know that a lot of the telemetry
data is no matter where the race

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is, flows back to the, the, the,
the locations in the UK. 

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00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:30,080
And you have the teams, they're 
all kind of focusing on little 

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00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:33,480
stations, adjusting, making 
adjustments to, to try and, you 

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00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:36,760
know, squeeze out those 10s of 
milliseconds to, to kind of get.

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So this is during during the. 
Race, it's real time data. 

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So in my mind, it's kind of a 
bit like NASA on a launch 

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00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:45,400
mission. 
It's kind of that you've got big

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00:06:45,400 --> 00:06:49,800
operational sensor with screens,
every other kind of workstation 

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00:06:49,840 --> 00:06:53,640
working on that little area and,
and just fine tuning, fine 

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00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:58,200
tuning just to find the that 
10th of a second saving, which 

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00:06:58,200 --> 00:07:00,560
can mean the difference between 
in these days, it could be first

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00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:04,080
and 5th place potentially. 
So, so it's, it's very 

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00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:07,520
interesting, but other 
technologists for me and real, 

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00:07:07,520 --> 00:07:10,080
you know, near real time data 
has been, some have been 

139
00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:13,800
fascinated, fascinated about for
a long time as our CTO for 

140
00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:17,520
William Hill and sports betting.
The the the number of sports 

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00:07:17,520 --> 00:07:20,600
betting markets we had and the 
adjustments we had to make in 

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00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:24,280
real time for pricing meant that
we had to kind of almost invent 

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00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:27,200
some of the technologies to to 
get the kind of scale and the 

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00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:30,600
and rapid space. 
There is this crazy, crazy segue

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00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:36,800
maybe, but would you ever think 
like there is this there, there 

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00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:41,080
is this mentioning sports and 
health that at a certain point 

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00:07:41,080 --> 00:07:44,080
content like health, health data
is going to become content. 

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00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:48,840
And there is many brands that 
they would display, for example,

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00:07:48,840 --> 00:07:54,600
the heart rate on the screen or 
they would display the like the 

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velocity and and the speed and 
everything on on the screen. 

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00:07:58,960 --> 00:08:02,680
So these things become content. 
Speaking about bedding, which 

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00:08:02,680 --> 00:08:04,800
you ever imagine the two 
merging? 

153
00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:09,240
Yes, having worked in the 
betting industry for a number of

154
00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:12,400
years, I think the answer to 
that is yes. 

155
00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:15,600
I think it's quite surprising 
what people will actually bet on

156
00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:20,480
and I think the the the data is 
kind of really critical here and

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00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:23,280
to kind of create new markets on
opportunities. 

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00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:27,160
I don't bet myself, but I, I'm, 
I, I respect the technology 

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00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:30,920
that's goes behind the scenes 
here, but it, it has, you know, 

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00:08:31,080 --> 00:08:33,760
great applications in other 
industry because it is probably 

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00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:36,720
at the cutting edge of what I 
would call real time data 

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00:08:36,720 --> 00:08:38,600
ingestion. 
I mean so. 

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00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:41,600
From a practical sense, how do 
you see that happening? 

164
00:08:42,320 --> 00:08:44,840
What would the? 
What would people bet on? 

165
00:08:44,840 --> 00:08:47,280
Like maybe like if the the heart
rate was higher or. 

166
00:08:47,280 --> 00:08:49,560
Well as well, I mean, I think 
it's probably obviously heart, 

167
00:08:49,560 --> 00:08:51,120
heart, heart rates would go 
higher. 

168
00:08:52,320 --> 00:08:56,080
I, I would say they'll be kind 
of mini markets in, in various 

169
00:08:56,080 --> 00:09:00,040
different sports. 
I mean, a good example, which 

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00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:02,800
probably is played out right now
is like smart balls. 

171
00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:07,320
So you can see the velocity, the
speed direction, distance. 

172
00:09:07,320 --> 00:09:09,800
So those so those things could 
probably potentially create 

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00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:12,800
markets, betting opportunities. 
You know how you know who kicked

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00:09:12,800 --> 00:09:15,320
the ball the furthest that kind 
of market. 

175
00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:18,160
I'm sure people like that kind 
of thing. 

176
00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:20,640
I mean, usually it's obviously 
final scores and and who won the

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00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:23,120
race, but people kind of get 
bored. 

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00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:26,360
They want to kind of have 
something tangible, real in 

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00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:29,520
between. 
So I'm sure data would play a 

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00:09:29,520 --> 00:09:31,240
big part in creating those 
opportunities. 

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00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:38,600
I see you today, you lead a 
number of companies, but how did

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00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:40,040
you get into the technology in 
the 1st? 

183
00:09:40,040 --> 00:09:42,240
Place, Yeah, good question. 
What was your inspiration? 

184
00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:46,640
So going back a few years, I 
think I have to kind of credit 

185
00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:50,240
my parents for this one. 
Just buy me a computer. 

186
00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:52,920
Probably age of seven. 
Oh well, yeah. 

187
00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:59,440
So so for me it was age 7. 
Got a Compador 64, which I 

188
00:09:59,440 --> 00:10:01,480
think, you know, probably cost 
quite a bit of money at the 

189
00:10:01,480 --> 00:10:04,720
time. 
And it just fascinated me. 

190
00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:07,720
But the ability to actually 
start to write code. 

191
00:10:08,160 --> 00:10:11,120
So I bought a few books and 
wrote a few games and then just 

192
00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:12,920
diversified from from that. 
So it. 

193
00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:14,600
It What games do you remember? 
Oh. 

194
00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:19,480
Well, really basic stuff, you 
know, like little trying to 

195
00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:22,360
emulate a little bit of the 
Atari games with a little pong 

196
00:10:23,760 --> 00:10:26,600
that that kind of thing, then 
try to explore graphics and do 

197
00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:30,480
like probably like a kind of a 
spaceship Lander kind of 

198
00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:32,720
program. 
So I, I really enjoyed it 

199
00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:33,840
because you've got an 
appreciation. 

200
00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:36,920
I like the idea of being able to
type something in and then see a

201
00:10:36,920 --> 00:10:40,120
result and, and just keep going 
iterating like that, improving. 

202
00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:46,120
So that kind of got me into it 
and it stuck with me and I'd 

203
00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:49,040
always had a, you know, tried to
get latest computer, had a kind 

204
00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:52,720
of network of friends similar to
myself who like that like 

205
00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:56,160
coding. 
And then university, I kind of 

206
00:10:56,160 --> 00:10:59,840
took a different path. 
I did, I did economics partly to

207
00:10:59,840 --> 00:11:02,520
do, I think with the fact that 
computer science at the time was

208
00:11:02,520 --> 00:11:06,280
a bit out there and still a bit 
of an unknown. 

209
00:11:07,120 --> 00:11:09,400
I really wish I had done 
computer science, but I, I did 

210
00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:13,560
economics, I, I got through it 
and, and then I went on to do a,

211
00:11:13,560 --> 00:11:16,520
a, a masters in computer 
science, having kind of realised

212
00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:19,240
that was the way forward. 
But I did my masters whilst I 

213
00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:22,960
was working at HSBC. 
So how I actually pivoted into 

214
00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:29,000
computing was I got a graduate 
scheme role and the organization

215
00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:32,400
were really good in that they 
allowed me to go and work with 

216
00:11:32,400 --> 00:11:39,040
the IT department. 
And I started there in 1997 and 

217
00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:40,600
Java would just come on the 
scene. 

218
00:11:40,640 --> 00:11:43,920
And I was really lucky that they
invested in me going to some 

219
00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:46,880
Microsystems to do the Java 
certifications. 

220
00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:51,320
And so we're going way back, way
back, but Java was just taking 

221
00:11:51,320 --> 00:11:53,240
off. 
Then I think it was James 

222
00:11:53,240 --> 00:11:56,320
Gosling who'd invented it was 
called OAK, I think, and then it

223
00:11:56,320 --> 00:11:58,960
came Java. 
So I was really early adopter of

224
00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:01,440
that technology, object oriented
programming. 

225
00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:06,080
And it kind of helped me a lot, 
excited my career early on. 

226
00:12:06,560 --> 00:12:09,720
And I then went to work for HSBC
and became the chief programmer 

227
00:12:09,880 --> 00:12:13,120
and architect at HSBC. 
And they allowed me to do the 

228
00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:17,000
the masters because I felt like 
I needed to just right or wrong 

229
00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:18,600
there and do the computer 
science degree. 

230
00:12:18,600 --> 00:12:20,360
So yeah, that's how I got into 
it. 

231
00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:24,080
If you if you look backwards, 
like you had so many leadership 

232
00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:27,920
positions in so many great 
organisations, if you would look

233
00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:30,320
backwards, would you imagine 
that this would happen? 

234
00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:35,280
No, definitely not. 
I think what I've realised and 

235
00:12:35,280 --> 00:12:37,120
what I've taught myself as I've 
got older. 

236
00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:40,440
I probably wasn't the most 
confident person at university 

237
00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:43,520
and probably just followed the 
mainstream. 

238
00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:48,000
But I think as I've got older, 
wiser and perhaps probably be 

239
00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:51,520
able to take a few more risks, 
I've kind of just realised, just

240
00:12:51,560 --> 00:12:54,760
just say, you know, just try 
everything at least once, have a

241
00:12:54,760 --> 00:12:57,080
go. 
You never know and just you 

242
00:12:57,080 --> 00:13:01,120
learn, you adapt. 
And I think for me it's always 

243
00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:06,240
been just take a few risks, have
a go and and see what it takes 

244
00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:07,760
you. 
And I think that's the way I've 

245
00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:11,240
been accelerating and, you know,
up my kind of career ladder from

246
00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:15,360
being a junior a Java programmer
to chief technology officer. 

247
00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:19,720
But it's, it's all relevant. 
And, and also to stay curious, 

248
00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:22,720
not to stay kind of looking at 
your areas, look at other 

249
00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:24,680
departments, look at other 
people, what they're doing, why 

250
00:13:24,680 --> 00:13:26,880
they're doing it. 
Just try and grow that way, as 

251
00:13:26,880 --> 00:13:30,120
well as try and improve the kind
of breadth of knowledge of how 

252
00:13:30,560 --> 00:13:34,440
departments are run, how it is 
run, how it fulfils the needs of

253
00:13:34,440 --> 00:13:37,200
the business, rather than just 
kind of locked down on a 

254
00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:38,800
keyboard. 
So that, that was something I 

255
00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:41,680
was never the best programmer. 
I thought I was, but I wasn't 

256
00:13:41,680 --> 00:13:44,720
really. 
But what I have is kind of 

257
00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:48,000
curiosity and a willingness to 
try and deliver value for the 

258
00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:50,080
business from just churn out 
code. 

259
00:13:51,560 --> 00:14:00,680
So if you, I believe you, you 
were part of NHS and and you LED

260
00:14:00,680 --> 00:14:06,400
NHS technology, the did you, did
you join during the COVID 

261
00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:09,040
period? 
I did so I went through the 

262
00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:11,120
recruitment process prior to 
COVID. 

263
00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:12,480
So at this point I'm going to 
recruit. 

264
00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:16,080
I didn't know, nobody knew that 
that COVID would like would like

265
00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:18,200
it would. 
Be awesome to hear. 

266
00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:19,560
What's the first three months 
like? 

267
00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:23,680
Crazy. 
So, yeah, so I joined just as we

268
00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:27,880
went into our first lockdown in 
2020, so. 

269
00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:29,720
So, So that's the first month 
you joined? 

270
00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:30,440
Absolutely. 
Yeah. 

271
00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:31,520
The first month, yeah. 
So. 

272
00:14:31,520 --> 00:14:34,440
So the induction kind of got 
ripped up and put in the bin. 

273
00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:35,920
It was like, right, let's hit 
the ground running. 

274
00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:40,640
So it was fascinating, 
unforgettable. 

275
00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:45,600
So I started by working with a 
very, very small team to to 

276
00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:48,600
deploy the digital service for 
the home testing kits, the 

277
00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:51,840
lateral flow test kits that we 
were all able to order. 

278
00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:54,240
So. 
So this was the delivery of the.

279
00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:57,120
That's right. 
So that's correct. 

280
00:14:57,120 --> 00:15:02,600
So we built a service to the NHS
and Amazon, did the the 

281
00:15:02,600 --> 00:15:06,080
fulfilment and the the kind of 
warehousing alongside the Royal 

282
00:15:06,080 --> 00:15:08,440
Mail. 
And I worked with a very, very 

283
00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:13,080
small team, team of like 5 or 6 
of us, and we went from nothing 

284
00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:16,480
to a full digital service in 
three weeks. 

285
00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:19,320
Which which we came up for 
millions of people, right? 

286
00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:21,160
Correct. 
So, oh, wow. 

287
00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:23,440
Yeah. 
So day one, it had to deliver. 

288
00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:26,280
It had to scale. 
We used a lot of service 

289
00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:29,520
technology to ensure that we 
could scale on demand. 

290
00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:33,480
And yeah, it was. 
Can we dig a bit into this? 

291
00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:34,720
Like what the technology look 
like? 

292
00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:39,000
Right. 
Well, we, we used ADBS and we 

293
00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:41,960
used a lot of Lambda functions 
and stitching it all together. 

294
00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:46,840
We used a lot of calls of API 
back end calls into Amazon. 

295
00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:49,160
I think we brought it down at 
one point Amazon, we were 

296
00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:51,360
hitting them so many API calls. 
We had to rate limit that. 

297
00:15:51,960 --> 00:15:54,320
That's how mad it was, people 
wanting to get the tests. 

298
00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:59,600
But it was what was most notable
was a it was, it was 24/7 

299
00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:02,000
working. 
There was no Saturday and Sunday

300
00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:03,920
day off. 
It was constantly working around

301
00:16:03,920 --> 00:16:05,880
the clock. 
You know, we're up at like 2:00 

302
00:16:05,880 --> 00:16:09,120
in the morning, finishing 10:00,
having four hours sleep and then

303
00:16:09,320 --> 00:16:13,880
going at it again. 
And the team were amazing and 

304
00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:17,480
really resilient because we all 
thought, you know, at this time,

305
00:16:17,480 --> 00:16:19,800
there was no vaccine. 
This was like a way to help 

306
00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:22,160
protect people. 
So the you know the. 

307
00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:24,720
Course, did you have to hire 
these people or did? 

308
00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:26,920
You no, we we had them already 
so we were with a lot of 

309
00:16:27,160 --> 00:16:29,960
consultancy firms, but this team
was kind of home grown. 

310
00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:33,920
So we we got them in from the 
various departments within NHS 

311
00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:36,520
and consult. 
There's a few consultants in 

312
00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:39,240
there as well, but they were 
fantastic team. 

313
00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:40,920
I mean we just gelled they want 
to meet us. 

314
00:16:40,920 --> 00:16:43,720
It was the purpose. 
The cause was phenomenal. 

315
00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:48,080
Everybody kind of aligned on 
that immediately and we just as 

316
00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:51,040
a team. 
It was a 5 people team covering 

317
00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:53,680
the whole of the UK for all of 
the testing. 

318
00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:55,600
Yeah, it was a phenomenal table.
Yeah. 

319
00:16:55,600 --> 00:16:58,800
And I think I remember we're 
working at such pace that on day

320
00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:03,640
one when we actually opened the 
service, I think for the 1st 13 

321
00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:08,599
minutes, there was a glitch and 
it got in the press actually. 

322
00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:12,079
And the problem was, is we'd 
been testing it and testing and 

323
00:17:12,079 --> 00:17:15,040
testing it and we'd forgotten to
open the firewall up on the on 

324
00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:17,760
the service. 
So we were just sat in there 

325
00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:19,560
going, what have we done wrong? 
What have we done wrong? 

326
00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:21,480
Oh yeah, actually, yeah, that's 
what we've done wrong. 

327
00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:25,359
And so for 13 minutes, people 
were pressing, trying to get the

328
00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:27,720
the test. 
And then and then all of a 

329
00:17:27,720 --> 00:17:31,480
sudden it worked. 
And yeah, but it got it got into

330
00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:35,800
the news, that one. 
I mean it, it, it is somehow 

331
00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:39,000
good distribution if it gets to 
the news as well On the other 

332
00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:41,160
side is like this engineering, 
right? 

333
00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:43,880
Any anything deployment that you
do is going to have something 

334
00:17:43,880 --> 00:17:45,160
it's not. 
It's never perfect. 

335
00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:46,720
Yeah. 
Oh yeah, absolutely. 

336
00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:50,840
And I think the thing we learnt 
as well as we're opening every 

337
00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:53,480
day after the service been 
opened, we were constantly 

338
00:17:53,480 --> 00:17:57,480
looking at the data, the volumes
of traffic, the latency to look 

339
00:17:57,480 --> 00:17:59,840
at how we could improve and it 
was a constant improvement 

340
00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:02,000
piece. 
After the how many orders do we 

341
00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:05,880
speak per day now? 
On the lateral flow tests, I 

342
00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:10,120
mean I, I believe, I mean we, we
ran out. 

343
00:18:10,120 --> 00:18:12,600
So we actually ran out of tests.
So that was how fast. 

344
00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:15,480
So on day one, I think it opened
at 813. 

345
00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:20,640
In the end, I think by 845 
they'd run out of all the tests.

346
00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:22,680
That was it. 
They'd gone. 

347
00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:24,720
So yeah. 
So the the the the volume of 

348
00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:26,760
the. 
And and that was in the millions

349
00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:29,560
of tests or. 
Not at that stage, no, no, no, 

350
00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:31,040
because they were just being 
developed. 

351
00:18:31,080 --> 00:18:33,200
Oh, yeah. 
So at the time it was they were 

352
00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:36,400
developed, manufactured and the 
tests were much less than you 

353
00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:37,880
could. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

354
00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:39,600
Yeah. 
But then obviously the the the 

355
00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:42,000
other one was the booking 
service for actually going to 

356
00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:45,080
book a vaccine when it came out 
and and those requests were in 

357
00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:46,800
the millions. 
Sure. 

358
00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:47,760
So the booking. 
So which? 

359
00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:50,480
Which which of these products 
did you work on? 

360
00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:54,120
So I worked. 
So after the home test, I I then

361
00:18:54,120 --> 00:18:58,560
went to work on the contact 
tracing app, which was again a 

362
00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:02,240
really intense time again. 
There was a backlash on this 

363
00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:03,720
one, was it? 
But there was backlash. 

364
00:19:04,360 --> 00:19:08,040
So in the spirit of what was 
trying to be done there, there 

365
00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:09,520
was no vaccination at this 
stage. 

366
00:19:09,520 --> 00:19:13,600
So what we were trying to do was
protect people, keep them kind 

367
00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:16,240
of locked down when they needed 
to be locked down, but also 

368
00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:19,040
allow them some freedom of 
ability to try and. 

369
00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:24,080
Participate parentheses there 
David like these these demands 

370
00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:26,640
for the apps and so on do they 
come from the government and 

371
00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:28,560
they say here's what we. 
Want, that's right, yeah. 

372
00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:34,160
So it started out as there was 
a, an app in Singapore that 

373
00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:39,240
starts to look at being able to 
use Bluetooth technology to try 

374
00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:43,840
and capture if someone had been 
encountering somebody who had 

375
00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:47,280
the exposure to COVID and then 
fall notify them and lock them 

376
00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:48,320
down. 
So there was a pattern. 

377
00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:52,640
And then the Oxford University, 
the epidemiological team at 

378
00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:55,840
Oxford had a kind of a case 
study on, on this. 

379
00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:59,120
So a lot of what we're building 
was based on studies from Oxford

380
00:19:59,120 --> 00:20:04,920
University's team, so. 
The challenge, the challenge 

381
00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:07,560
with it as a technologist was 
how the hell do you get 

382
00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:10,520
Bluetooth technology to be able 
to measure? 

383
00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:12,840
It doesn't work like 20 meters, 
maybe there's. 

384
00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:14,880
Exactly. 
It was never invented for that. 

385
00:20:15,360 --> 00:20:19,720
So working with some very, very 
clever people from some very 

386
00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:23,400
interesting backgrounds, indeed 
some military, we started to 

387
00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:26,440
look at algorithms to, to look 
at how we could accurately 

388
00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:29,400
measure and based. 
Bear in mind Bluetooth works 

389
00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:32,480
differently on all devices and 
with Android particularly, 

390
00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:35,080
you've got a big plethora of 
different types of. 

391
00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:39,560
So a lot of testing was involved
because we wanted to try and get

392
00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:43,920
it right in terms of being able 
to accurately predict and 

393
00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:47,760
measure if you'd had a, you 
know, so if I, I had a phone now

394
00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:51,360
and I'm talking to you, if I put
it in the back pocket, suddenly 

395
00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:55,360
the, the, the distance measured 
could jump back 10 feet, but I 

396
00:20:55,360 --> 00:20:57,560
ought to haven't moved. 
So we had to try and do a lot of

397
00:20:57,560 --> 00:21:00,840
testing like that to try and get
the accuracy better to give 

398
00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:03,440
people confidence that, you 
know, when we have said lock 

399
00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:06,040
down, that you lock down, 
there's a lot of tuning 

400
00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:07,880
involved. 
And yes, I think it did get a 

401
00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:10,560
little bit of press around 
sometimes it was a little bit 

402
00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:12,160
sensitive to people locking 
down. 

403
00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:16,720
But the, the one thing I would 
do take away from it was the, 

404
00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:21,800
the report that the BBC News put
out, which said that it probably

405
00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:23,400
saved thousands of lives in the 
end. 

406
00:21:24,120 --> 00:21:26,920
And I think that's the key that 
I take away is that we were 

407
00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:29,200
doing it for the right reasons, 
that we wanted to try and 

408
00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:32,600
protect people, keep them safe, 
but also give them freedoms back

409
00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:35,920
of mobility. 
So it was done with that spirit 

410
00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:40,160
and, and always with the, with 
the intention of keeping it 

411
00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:43,880
private as well and protecting 
people with privacy and 

412
00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:45,640
security. 
So we worked closely with 

413
00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:48,840
National Cyber Security Center 
to make sure we open sourced the

414
00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:51,160
code. 
That was important as well, so 

415
00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:53,160
people could see what the code 
was doing. 

416
00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:56,360
And we worked with people, you 
know, communities, open source 

417
00:21:56,360 --> 00:21:59,120
communities, to make sure that 
they were happy and satisfied. 

418
00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:02,600
So for that, how many people? 
Pretty involved. 

419
00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:04,120
That was quite a big team. 
OK. 

420
00:22:04,120 --> 00:22:05,520
So it's a bigger team, It's a 
big team. 

421
00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:08,040
Yeah, Yeah, it's a big team 
because there's a lot of testing

422
00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:10,680
and a lot of code development. 
I mean, it was, it was from the 

423
00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:13,520
the roots of this. 
And we worked with Apple and 

424
00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:18,880
Google because in the end we had
to work with the new APIs, the 

425
00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:22,600
Exposure notification API which 
they developed on the operating.

426
00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:23,480
System. 
Oh, yes. 

427
00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:25,480
I Yeah, yeah. 
Because we had a problem before 

428
00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:28,280
that with being able to kind of 
work with the Apple devices. 

429
00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:31,080
It was quite a chatty app, as 
you can imagine, pinging 

430
00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:36,000
Bluetooth connections. 
So we used to lose the the Apple

431
00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:40,280
devices and therefore we kind of
work with Apple and Google and 

432
00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:43,400
they developed an API which 
helped to kind of measure the 

433
00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:46,560
the distances as well. 
But some of our team members 

434
00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:49,880
helped to tune that to make it 
even better. 

435
00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:53,160
So so it was good to see the a 
good work in between the big 

436
00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:55,360
tech companies and the internal 
teams. 

437
00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:56,480
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

438
00:22:56,600 --> 00:22:58,560
So, so those were the two 
products you worked on. 

439
00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:00,880
The issue worked in, in in other
products. 

440
00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:02,680
Yeah. 
So that that that after that 

441
00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:05,280
then the good news was a vaccine
was insight. 

442
00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:09,400
So then with the the vaccination
team on on the tech and data 

443
00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:11,440
element. 
And I think the challenge there 

444
00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:13,440
was, and this is probably 
something that people don't 

445
00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:16,240
appreciate with the National 
Health services, we were trying 

446
00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:21,160
to get data to kind of be 
integrated so that we could have

447
00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:24,600
a really good real time view of 
the vaccination data, the 

448
00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:26,640
status, who's being vaccinated, 
who hasn't. 

449
00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:30,480
So that's, that's, that's 
figuring out who is vaccinated. 

450
00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:32,800
Exactly, Yeah. 
Or, or if they've had one 

451
00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:35,240
vaccine, or if they had the 
booster vaccine, which one did 

452
00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:37,560
they have? 
Have they had a flu jab before 

453
00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:40,440
to look at their eligibility and
and so forth. 

454
00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:44,280
So a lot of that data exists, 
but it exists in kind of silos 

455
00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:47,520
between different systems, GP 
systems, private systems. 

456
00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:49,960
So I was trying to bring all 
that data together to get a 

457
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:53,600
complete view, a picture of the,
you know, the current status and

458
00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:55,720
make sure people got the right 
vaccine at the right time. 

459
00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:59,040
So there was that was 
challenging and yeah. 

460
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:04,400
So I was, I was in the UK at the
time and I remember using these 

461
00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:09,240
and then when I went back to my 
country, Cyprus, for I don't 

462
00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:11,600
remember how long I've been 
there, but, and they did the 

463
00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:13,640
same, but it was on cards. 
So it was physical. 

464
00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:14,360
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

465
00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:16,120
Because you didn't have anyone 
to meet. 

466
00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:19,480
Yeah, stamping a card. 
I mean, to be fair, everybody 

467
00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:22,040
was given a card as well to 
stamp this card. 

468
00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:25,280
But what was interesting is I 
don't remember the COVID Travel 

469
00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:27,120
Pass that way. 
Everybody was issued. 

470
00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:29,800
I think it was actually first 
trialled at the Silverstone 

471
00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:33,160
Grand Prix, which was the big 
first gathering of, you know, 

472
00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:37,520
150,000 people plus and, and 
giving them again the freedom to

473
00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:40,560
go to the event. 
So people had to prove with the 

474
00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:42,560
COVID Travel Pass that they'd 
been vaccinated. 

475
00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:46,480
So it needed to be digital 
because obviously you, you, you 

476
00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:49,160
can probably fake a, a card and 
stamp. 

477
00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:52,520
So that's where the data came in
to allow people to go to that 

478
00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:55,360
event with the COVID travel pass
to show that they've been 

479
00:24:55,360 --> 00:24:58,880
vaccinated. 
And, and at what point did you 

480
00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:01,840
Start learning about Virgin or 
thinking about joining Virgin? 

481
00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:04,080
OK. 
So I think for me, well, I mean,

482
00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:06,480
I've known about Virgin all, all
my life, which I've always 

483
00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:08,760
followed Richard Branson's 
adventures. 

484
00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:13,160
So I know the brand really well.
Virgin Records. 

485
00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:18,840
But I, I think for me it was 
trying to continue the, the, the

486
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:24,920
journey of health, preventative 
health in another setting and 

487
00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:29,840
with Virgin Virgin Active, the, 
the, the, the mission really is 

488
00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:35,280
to actually help people to stay 
healthy, to stay fit, mentally 

489
00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:39,120
strong. 
So, so the, the, it was a good 

490
00:25:39,120 --> 00:25:41,800
story. 
It's, it's certainly something 

491
00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:43,520
that gets me out of bed on the 
morning. 

492
00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:48,960
So, so I, I started to kind of 
look to move out of the public 

493
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:52,280
sectors back into private sector
once kind of things have settled

494
00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:57,080
down with the pandemic and, and,
and Virgin was just kind of 

495
00:25:57,320 --> 00:26:00,760
clicked and, you know. 
But David, how, how does this 

496
00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:04,200
work You are you worked as a CTO
before? 

497
00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:07,440
Like do people approach you? 
Do you approach people like 

498
00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:09,160
you're you're more known at the 
time so. 

499
00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:14,840
So a lot of the time LinkedIn 
for me is, is kind of building 

500
00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:18,000
up your network. 
LinkedIn, you always have kind 

501
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:20,760
of headhunters asking questions 
around, are you interested in 

502
00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:22,080
this and that. 
Yeah. 

503
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:27,320
So I tend to be somebody who 
stays curious regarding 

504
00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:30,720
opportunities. 
And as I said before, I don't 

505
00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:33,280
always say no. 
I like to be curious and just 

506
00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:36,800
just just to see what will come 
of something. 

507
00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:40,280
So with the Virgin, when I was 
approached and applied for the 

508
00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:42,240
role and went through the the 
process. 

509
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:44,640
So yeah, that that's how it came
out. 

510
00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:46,480
So it was it was through 
LinkedIn contact. 

511
00:26:47,120 --> 00:26:50,000
Interesting you mentioned 
building a network on LinkedIn. 

512
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:54,080
What's what's the secret there? 
Well, I think for me the big 

513
00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:57,720
boost came working for NHS, had 
to work another contact tracing 

514
00:26:57,720 --> 00:26:59,480
out. 
So I think having a story, 

515
00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:05,080
having been authentic, having a 
story, posting regularly, but 

516
00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:07,960
also looking at the community 
and, and, and feedback and 

517
00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:10,560
comments from other people as 
well, supporting the community. 

518
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:13,360
It's pointing people around you.
I think it's just having the 

519
00:27:13,360 --> 00:27:17,040
story, being authentic, having a
purpose that resonates with with

520
00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:19,600
people. 
And I quite like LinkedIn 

521
00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:22,240
because I think it's quite a 
supportive community of people. 

522
00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:25,680
I'm not, I'm not big on on X or 
Twitter. 

523
00:27:26,360 --> 00:27:28,320
I think it can get a little bit 
toxic at times. 

524
00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:34,840
You know, you find that there's 
all this talk about against 

525
00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:37,160
LinkedIn and in favor of X and 
so on. 

526
00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:42,160
It's just that LinkedIn works 
like, no matter, like no matter 

527
00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:44,640
how people write and so on. 
I think it works. 

528
00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:47,760
Like I posted the other day, 
usually I post once every month 

529
00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:51,880
or every two months about about 
Terra we're hiding and so on. 

530
00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:56,760
And then yeah, these type of 
posts get hundreds of thousands 

531
00:27:56,760 --> 00:27:59,720
of impressions. 
Then it gets like for that, like

532
00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:02,320
the Last Post I've done, we go 
to like 600 applications and I 

533
00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:05,640
was like, this works. 
Yes, this works. 

534
00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:08,080
Like it is what it is. 
Whereas with X, if you do this 

535
00:28:08,120 --> 00:28:11,120
similar thing, very different 
audience. 

536
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:13,960
Definitely yes. 
And very different logic. 

537
00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:18,480
I think like X is more of a like
there is one outlier out of 

538
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:22,320
many, whereas LinkedIn is a bit 
more consistent. 

539
00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:26,280
It's every post you do is going 
to be kind of similar. 

540
00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:27,880
The audience is. 
It's very niche and very 

541
00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:29,120
specific. 
Yeah, yeah. 

542
00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:32,120
I, I, I think people go on 
LinkedIn to try and raise their 

543
00:28:32,120 --> 00:28:34,480
profile, but also to find 
precarious and find out what 

544
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:38,320
else is out there for them. 
And I, I like to see stories of 

545
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:41,200
people who are, you know, 
growing, you know, either 

546
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:44,120
they've found a new company, 
they've got promotion, they're 

547
00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:46,760
doing something new. 
There's lots of great stories 

548
00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:48,000
out there. 
And I like to kind of support 

549
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:51,480
those as well. 
So I, I do find it a quite a a 

550
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:55,560
supportive community of people, 
like minded people definitely. 

551
00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:58,480
What's the what's the first 
three months looking like when 

552
00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:01,720
you join Virgin and and it and 
it when you join us ACTO, what 

553
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:03,880
do you do? 
Yeah, it's so, yes. 

554
00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:06,360
So I think first thing you do is
you've got to get familiar with 

555
00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:08,480
the business. 
You've got to get out there and 

556
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:10,480
talk to people, understand the 
business. 

557
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:13,200
And ideally, who do you want to 
speak to? 

558
00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:16,200
Oh. 
So not always technical people, 

559
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:18,000
definitely not. 
It's kind of more out in the 

560
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:19,440
business. 
So going out to the clubs, 

561
00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:24,200
seeing, talking to members, 
talking to the club staff about 

562
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:26,480
the frictions, the problems. 
So you know, where can 

563
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:29,560
technology, I'm looking always 
for where can technology make a 

564
00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:31,320
difference? 
How can it remove a friction, a 

565
00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:34,280
problem? 
So it's out there talking and 

566
00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:37,760
observing, listening. 
A lot of it is listening and, 

567
00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:39,480
and just formulating a plan 
really. 

568
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:42,760
Obviously talking technology as 
well, talking to the teams is 

569
00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:46,000
important because you know what 
I find with a lot of teams when 

570
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:48,960
you arrive is they've already 
had great ideas, but some reason

571
00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:50,240
they've not been able to execute
that. 

572
00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:52,160
So it's kind of how do I unlock 
that? 

573
00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:54,760
How do I help them to execute on
these great ideas? 

574
00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:57,000
Sometimes it's just about 
validating them with the 

575
00:29:57,000 --> 00:29:59,880
business, spending a bit more 
time making it relevant to the 

576
00:29:59,880 --> 00:30:02,040
business, proving to the 
business's value because there's

577
00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:04,480
investment, but what's the 
actual return going to look 

578
00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:05,600
like? 
So it's just a little bit more 

579
00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:08,880
polishing that up, but having 
authentic stories, going out 

580
00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:12,000
there and talking to members, 
understanding their pain points,

581
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:15,720
you know what they'd like to see
more of less of how we can 

582
00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:18,640
improve and bringing those 
stories back onto the into the 

583
00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:21,520
board and, and actually playing 
that back is really important. 

584
00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:24,000
So, so that's what it's about. 
I mean, the first three months 

585
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:26,000
is just get out there talking to
people. 

586
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:29,280
Just absorb as much as you can, 
listen, observe, sit back and 

587
00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:33,640
and just take it all in. 
What what products have you 

588
00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:36,720
worked on since? 
Yeah, So I think with Virgin 

589
00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:39,480
Active that the key challenge 
was digitisation. 

590
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:45,080
So the industry maybe generally,
but it was all about bricks and 

591
00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:47,400
mortar. 
I mean, you go to a club, a 

592
00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:50,800
health club, a Wellness club, so
physical location. 

593
00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:54,600
And what we wanted to do was 
start to try and digitise the 

594
00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:56,400
journey. 
And the journey starts way 

595
00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:58,800
before you even think you walk 
through the doors of the club. 

596
00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:00,880
So it's how can we bring that to
life? 

597
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:02,960
How can we connect? 
How can you personalise that? 

598
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:06,560
So the channel that we're going 
to use is the app. 

599
00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:11,000
So firstly we had to kind of get
a global app, but it was very, 

600
00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:14,520
what I found quite remarkable 
with Virgin Active was each 

601
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:16,640
territory was different. 
It had different app. 

602
00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:19,280
Usually it's white labeled, it 
wasn't our own. 

603
00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:23,000
So we brought that together to 
create our own global app, which

604
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:25,720
is just a channel by which we 
could then push all of these 

605
00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:31,200
great ideas quickly. 
So the first year and a half was

606
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:35,240
just rolling out this app, this 
platform to enable that to 

607
00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:39,040
happen. 
Also in conjunction was data. 

608
00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:42,880
So we've got lots of data, but 
it was all siloed. 

609
00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:45,600
It was all SAT siloed, being 
useful to nobody. 

610
00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:48,960
So what do we when we say data, 
What kind of data? 

611
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:52,800
So, so data on for example, 
members when they visit a club, 

612
00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:56,160
the activity they have to scan 
into a club so that that's 

613
00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:58,760
recorded on a system. 
So we know when people come, 

614
00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:01,680
when they don't come, you can 
start to build a pattern so you 

615
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:03,760
can see when people drop off, 
then you can start, you know, 

616
00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:06,400
you need to kind of react to 
that and re engage them, but 

617
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:06,760
that. 
Wasn't. 

618
00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:08,040
So what's the pattern on this 
one? 

619
00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:12,360
Like is it that when a person 
goes from 4 visits per week to 

620
00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:14,000
three visits per week? 
Or how does this work? 

621
00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:16,840
Yeah, exactly that. 
So you've got a highly engaged 

622
00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:20,000
member, they've come four times 
a week and all of a sudden 

623
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:22,480
something happens. 
They come down to three, maybe 

624
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:25,880
2, maybe one visit a week. 
And you've got to respond 

625
00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:28,080
quickly to that because 
ultimately what's happening 

626
00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:30,840
there is something's happened. 
Maybe they've they've made a 

627
00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:33,680
complaint in the club. 
Maybe the favorite instructor is

628
00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:36,080
no longer doing a class. 
Maybe they don't like the music.

629
00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:38,440
Maybe they can't get into a 
class because it's full. 

630
00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:42,880
Maybe the showers are cold. 
But but something's happened to 

631
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:44,760
that member. 
And it's really important to 

632
00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:47,640
kind of figure out what it is 
and re engage them quickly 

633
00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:49,840
because when. 
We say quickly, what does it 

634
00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:51,800
mean? 
How like how fast does this 

635
00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:54,000
happen? 
Well, ideally as quickly as 

636
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:58,120
possible, I mean, you can get a 
natural dip because they go on 

637
00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:02,440
holiday or they working away 
from home that that's but if it 

638
00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:05,400
continues for more than two to 
three weeks, then you start to 

639
00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:07,080
think, right, is there something
else? 

640
00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:09,720
So you know, there's a human 
touch to this as well, whereby 

641
00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:12,360
you just nudging the clubs to 
say, let's go and have a 

642
00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:15,360
conversation, give them a call, 
re engage them. 

643
00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:17,360
And we have a rewards programme 
as well. 

644
00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:20,760
So we we actually reward members
for coming to the club and 

645
00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:22,840
doing, you know, visits and 
workouts. 

646
00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:25,840
So there's an element of being 
able to re engage them through 

647
00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:30,680
the rewards loyalty program, 
which is important, but I think 

648
00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:32,840
you've got to try and do it as 
quickly as possible. 

649
00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:34,840
If you leave it months and 
months, effectively what you've 

650
00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:38,200
got now is a disengaged member 
who's likely to leave because 

651
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:41,040
they get no value anymore. 
So it's it's, it's just 

652
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:44,280
important to have all the kind 
of data available to understand 

653
00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:47,120
why is what's happened exactly 
and how can we kind of make that

654
00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:50,480
better for that member. 
So, so you're saying in a way 

655
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:55,360
that the, the technology behind 
the gym is intelligence in the, 

656
00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:58,320
in the individual is building 
the person, understanding that 

657
00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:03,280
person and then ensuring that 
there is a reduction in churn 

658
00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:05,400
and they're they're happy when 
they use the services. 

659
00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:09,880
Absolutely, yeah. 
So I think what's obvious is 

660
00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:15,360
when people join a gym, a health
club, Wellness club, you got a 

661
00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:18,159
number of different personas, 
but you have people who are 

662
00:34:18,159 --> 00:34:21,080
highly engaged who just know 
exactly what to do and they just

663
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:23,440
get on with it and they don't 
necessarily need much 

664
00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:25,960
interaction. 
But there are a lot of people 

665
00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:28,320
who are quite intimidated by 
that environment. 

666
00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:30,560
It's quite scary. 
You can see people working out 

667
00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:32,320
who know what they're doing. 
You're not quite so sure about 

668
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:34,960
equipment, you know, you feel 
quite self-conscious. 

669
00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:37,560
Sometimes those people need 
nurturing, they need to be 

670
00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:40,480
supported early on in that kind 
of journey. 

671
00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:45,000
So again, with the technology, 
it's about personalisation, it's

672
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:46,719
about understanding well, what 
are your goals and needs? 

673
00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:47,960
Why are you here in the 1st 
place? 

674
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:49,239
Why are you paying for this 
membership? 

675
00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:52,159
What do you want to see happen? 
And and then trying to 

676
00:34:52,159 --> 00:34:55,320
understand their behaviour when 
it comes to club, what classes 

677
00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:58,480
we've got available, if they've 
got wearables, connecting the 

678
00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:01,120
wearables to make sure that we 
can engage there. 

679
00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:04,960
So for example, on the morning, 
if you wake up and your aura 

680
00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:08,760
ring, your whoop, your Apple 
Health device, your Apple Watch 

681
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:12,320
tells you you've had poor sleep,
you've got a low recovery score.

682
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:15,160
Maybe don't go to that hit class
tonight. 

683
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:18,480
Maybe go to kind of low 
intensity yo class, you know, 

684
00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:21,720
try something different because 
the the data's saying perhaps 

685
00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:25,520
that's not the best for you. 
And people get demotivated if 

686
00:35:25,720 --> 00:35:27,120
they go and have a poor 
experience. 

687
00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:31,200
So trying to understand people 
and trying in near real time to 

688
00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:33,720
help them understand, right? 
What should I do today? 

689
00:35:33,720 --> 00:35:36,280
What's the best thing for me? 
So we're not, we're not trying 

690
00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:38,360
to reinvent the wheel here. 
We're not trying to be an aura 

691
00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:40,480
or a whoop. 
And we're all we're trying to do

692
00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:44,800
is use that data to then give 
them the best experience in, in 

693
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:47,240
our clubs, making sure we're 
connecting them to the right 

694
00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:51,960
classes, the right recovery, the
right facilities in the club. 

695
00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:54,400
And you know, if they've got a 
personal trainer as well, making

696
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:56,280
sure the personal trainer's got 
the information so they can 

697
00:35:56,280 --> 00:36:01,760
tailor that class that, that, 
that program to their needs on 

698
00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:05,440
that day rather than it being 
like a month, a year before 

699
00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:08,640
things change. 
So we're trying to be personal, 

700
00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:11,560
intelligent and adaptive with 
what we're doing with the 

701
00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:15,760
technology. 
So David, if, if all of the work

702
00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:21,880
was finalised today for for all 
the gyms, how would the gym look

703
00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:27,120
like? 
Yeah, I'd be busier, that's for 

704
00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:31,520
sure. 
I think what you'd find is a 

705
00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:36,160
very seamless experience. 
So frictions being removed, we 

706
00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:39,880
have gates and people have to 
use, we have various, some 

707
00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:44,280
people have to still swipe a 
card, some people use the FID. 

708
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:48,520
So we want to build that into 
more the smartphone that people 

709
00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:52,600
carry around with them. 
So you tap in, when you tap in, 

710
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:54,360
that data then flows into the 
system. 

711
00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:58,040
Let's say I go in and I'm on my 
third visit this week. 

712
00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:01,440
Last week, I only went once this
week and my third visit that 

713
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:04,440
might send a notification to a 
member of of, of the club staff 

714
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:06,920
who then come and welcomes you 
and says, hey, you know, David, 

715
00:37:07,240 --> 00:37:09,840
you know, high 5, great to see 
you, you know, keep this up 

716
00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:11,560
really good. 
I see you're going to get you 

717
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:13,520
booked into a cycle studio class
today. 

718
00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:16,160
You know, that's great, you 
know, really keen to hear about 

719
00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:18,880
how that goes. 
And you know that that kind of 

720
00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:22,320
personal greeting which flows 
throughout the kind of journey 

721
00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:25,280
in the club. 
And and then again, as you leave

722
00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:28,800
just a little nudge digitally 
that says, you know, well done, 

723
00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:31,440
keep this up, you know, giving 
you some stats just to kind of 

724
00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:34,040
encourage you to show that 
there's improvement there. 

725
00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:37,680
I think that's one thing. 
The other thing is we use a lot 

726
00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:41,760
of the the body composition 
devices in the clubs as well. 

727
00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:44,360
They're not as used as they 
could be, and in Virgin Active 

728
00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:46,680
they are available freely for 
all members. 

729
00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:50,040
That's interesting. 
What a percentage are we 

730
00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:51,640
speaking about? 
Like how many people use it? 

731
00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:56,520
So I think at the moment less 
than 20% of our members use them

732
00:37:56,520 --> 00:37:58,720
frequently. 
You might get a curious person, 

733
00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:01,280
but they're a little bit, 
there's a bit of friction here. 

734
00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:04,480
So sometimes you have to create 
a separate account, which I 

735
00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:07,280
think is a big no. 
So what we're looking to do is 

736
00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:10,800
you can go with your mobile 
phone with the Virgin app, you 

737
00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:13,840
can scan in. 
So there's nothing interaction 

738
00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:16,120
with the screen. 
You can just scan in through an 

739
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:18,960
inbuilt scanner. 
Now it's paired with you, it 

740
00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:21,440
knows who you are. 
You stand on there, you get the 

741
00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:24,880
results, the results go back and
then it starts to compare 

742
00:38:25,160 --> 00:38:28,280
historically your results and 
starts to give you some nudges. 

743
00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:31,200
So a good example would be 
muscle mass. 

744
00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:34,400
So muscle mass is a good 
indicator of of am I improving? 

745
00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:36,080
I've been doing that strength 
and conditioning class for the 

746
00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:37,760
last four weeks. 
Has it made a difference? 

747
00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:40,640
Well, actually, yes, it has. 
But then it starts to nudge you 

748
00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:42,680
and say, well, actually, you 
know, you need to be looking at 

749
00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:43,920
maybe lifting the heavyweight 
here. 

750
00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:47,080
Now you you've gone beyond that 
to so maybe start to look at 

751
00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:49,840
improving or try some new 
exercises which might just 

752
00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:51,800
stimulate, you know, muscle 
growth as well. 

753
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:55,240
So that was kind of things just 
to help people feel that not 

754
00:38:55,240 --> 00:38:57,280
doing the same thing time and 
time again. 

755
00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:00,880
Visceral fat levels as well, 
that's also in there as well. 

756
00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:02,960
So, you know, how can I reduce 
my visceral fat? 

757
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:07,400
That's key for longevity, yeah. 
So, so, so it's basically a 

758
00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:11,480
correlation of if, if the person
improves, they, they see that 

759
00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:14,800
they're doing better and they're
going to be staying in the gym 

760
00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:19,880
for much longer and being able 
to track these goals is, is, is 

761
00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:21,680
the ultimate. 
Absolute. 

762
00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:24,160
Yeah, absolutely. 
It's, I mean, everybody's got 

763
00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:27,280
different motivations while 
they're there, but it's trying 

764
00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:31,120
to show the value that actually 
you, you know, you're improving,

765
00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:35,480
you're hitting goals, but 
adapting as well. 

766
00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:38,240
Because as you grow, as you 
improve, you want to be 

767
00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:40,280
stimulated, you want to be 
challenged with more things. 

768
00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:45,360
So it's, it's almost like having
a virtual PT just constantly 

769
00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:47,680
nudging you, recommending things
for you. 

770
00:39:48,240 --> 00:39:51,280
So a good example is talking a 
class. 

771
00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:53,880
There's a friction there in 
terms of I have to go into a 

772
00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:56,760
timetable, I have to plan, 
right, I'm going to the club, 

773
00:39:56,760 --> 00:39:59,600
but this time what's available, 
I'm on a wait list. 

774
00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:02,360
I'm not on a wait list. 
What I'd like to see happen with

775
00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:05,120
personalization is I actually 
know when you're going to go to 

776
00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:07,280
the club. 
So I'm actually going to. 

777
00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:09,680
And I actually know what your 
goals and needs are and I know 

778
00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:12,920
from the verbal what kind of 
class is going to be suited to 

779
00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:14,800
you. 
So rather than you having to 

780
00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:17,320
make the decision. 
You know, a smart agent can then

781
00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:20,600
just surface or actually these 
three classes here on the Friday

782
00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:23,360
at 5:30 are really going to be 
great for you this week. 

783
00:40:23,640 --> 00:40:26,400
Just press here to book rather 
than you having to kind of go 

784
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:27,640
through all that thinking 
yourself. 

785
00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:32,360
So yeah. 
So the we that imported a while 

786
00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:39,880
ago about Vitality and they 
mentioned the which I found very

787
00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:43,920
interesting that they mentioned 
the the amount of dollars they 

788
00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:50,320
make for every dollar rewards 
the they give. 

789
00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:55,840
So, so, so Vitalities is this 
insurer that yeah, provides you 

790
00:40:55,840 --> 00:41:01,920
rewards. 
So so you train more and they, 

791
00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:07,240
they mentioned that for every 
dollar that they give back as 

792
00:41:07,240 --> 00:41:10,520
rewards, they get 2.5 dollars 
back as less claims. 

793
00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:12,720
Yeah, which I find super 
interesting, amazing. 

794
00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:19,240
And I spoke with so many gym 
leaders lately and you're doing 

795
00:41:19,240 --> 00:41:21,600
rewards. 
You've like Virgin has been 

796
00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:25,400
doing rewards for a lot of time.
Like it works in insurance. 

797
00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:27,840
Does it work in this in this 
case? 

798
00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:31,840
I suppose with insurance that 
they're paying out on, on, on 

799
00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:35,600
ill health, so their motivation 
is helping people stay fit and 

800
00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:38,360
healthy, reduces claims. 
So there's, there's definitely a

801
00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:42,800
positive colouration there. 
I think with the rewards we're 

802
00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:46,160
looking at trying to help people
get value from membership, which

803
00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:49,440
ultimately would translate to 
obviously reduced journey member

804
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:52,720
members leaving the club. 
So, and, and in that respect, 

805
00:41:52,720 --> 00:41:56,840
yeah, it does, it does work. 
It it does help engage people. 

806
00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:01,800
So as in if if technologists in 
gyms hear you right now, like is

807
00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:06,000
your suggestion, you should be 
creating rewards with rewards. 

808
00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:08,800
I think it's part of it. 
I, I think as well, it depends 

809
00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:11,560
what kind of rewards. 
So we, we've got a great kind of

810
00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:15,120
nutritional offer in our clubs. 
So typically a reward would 

811
00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:18,240
consist of maybe getting a, a, a
smoothie, a protein smoothie. 

812
00:42:19,080 --> 00:42:22,400
So something that's going to 
help make relevant to your kind 

813
00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:25,680
of journey. 
I think it's one element. 

814
00:42:26,240 --> 00:42:28,840
I also think the personalisation
is the big piece as well, though

815
00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:33,520
is is rewards where the 
relevant, but the 

816
00:42:33,520 --> 00:42:36,560
personalisation piece, it has to
be accompanied by that as well. 

817
00:42:36,560 --> 00:42:41,120
So, and I think with rewards you
can get very personal as well. 

818
00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:44,480
So rather than it just being, 
you know, generic, you've come 

819
00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:48,400
three times a week, high 5, go 
and grab a smoothie, It's OK 

820
00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:52,400
actually, David, you yourself, 
you know, you've actually 

821
00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:56,000
improved on a, a particular 
measure that maybe, maybe my 

822
00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:59,600
target, you know, maybe for me, 
it was I wanted to lose 1% body 

823
00:42:59,600 --> 00:43:02,680
fat and I wanted to do that over
the course of a month. 

824
00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:05,080
And I had a program and at the 
end of that I achieved that 

825
00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:07,480
rewarding for that kind of goal 
as well. 

826
00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:10,440
So it's a bit more intelligent 
and more tailored to you as an 

827
00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:13,240
individual. 
I think that's definitely some 

828
00:43:13,240 --> 00:43:16,200
because it certainly engages 
people more and the reward 

829
00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:19,720
doesn't always have to be a 
smoothie or a physical thing. 

830
00:43:19,720 --> 00:43:22,680
It could just be a badge of 
honour that then gets 

831
00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:25,080
communicated around the club, 
around your community. 

832
00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:28,680
Now I love Strava and, and, and 
I really like what they do 

833
00:43:28,680 --> 00:43:29,800
there. 
And I think sometimes just 

834
00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:32,760
getting the kudos, getting the 
high fives from people is good 

835
00:43:32,760 --> 00:43:36,000
enough for me to do it again. 
So, and I think, you know, a lot

836
00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:38,480
of people are motivated by that 
as well, but the community about

837
00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:41,160
seeing, you know, seeing that 
what you've done is been 

838
00:43:41,400 --> 00:43:47,520
acknowledged by that community. 
I have this perspective of on 

839
00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:56,600
gyms that they are some somehow 
reverse insurers. 

840
00:43:57,080 --> 00:44:01,600
It is the the people that care 
about their health, they go to 

841
00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:02,480
the gym. 
That's correct. 

842
00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:06,360
And I think currently there 
needs to be a lot of improvement

843
00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:10,920
in that. 
In a sense, first of all, yes, 

844
00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:13,880
it's about personalization. 
If you have all of the 

845
00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:18,600
information of someone like for 
example, like let's say that a 

846
00:44:18,600 --> 00:44:22,680
user goes to the gym and they go
less times to the gym. 

847
00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:26,360
If there is no intelligence, it 
doesn't necessarily mean that we

848
00:44:26,360 --> 00:44:28,920
don't we train less. 
It might be a marathon runner 

849
00:44:29,080 --> 00:44:31,760
when they're preparing for a 
triathlon event exactly outside 

850
00:44:31,760 --> 00:44:34,000
of the gym. 
You could spot this if you see 

851
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:37,200
that wearable data, for example,
or if you see their nutritional 

852
00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:41,200
information and so on. 
And telling them their own thing

853
00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:44,200
is going to be more 
demotivating. 

854
00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:49,680
So as in looking at 1 is a is 
really understanding customer 

855
00:44:49,680 --> 00:44:52,360
from how does this person sleep?
How do they eat? 

856
00:44:53,080 --> 00:44:57,720
How do they train outside of the
gym as much as as inside of the 

857
00:44:57,720 --> 00:45:01,560
gym is one thing. 
So building like a real honest 

858
00:45:01,560 --> 00:45:03,280
understanding of that individual
definitely. 

859
00:45:03,640 --> 00:45:08,680
But then, and it's also the 
other aspect, which is if, if 

860
00:45:08,680 --> 00:45:12,360
these people are joining the gym
that they care about their help,

861
00:45:13,120 --> 00:45:15,680
but their health. 
Like I'm just always wondering, 

862
00:45:16,040 --> 00:45:20,320
why are all of these innovations
like function for blood testing,

863
00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:25,560
for example, of or the the 
thriver here or why is Newman or

864
00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:30,160
why are, why is Strava? 
Why are all of these innovations

865
00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:35,800
not created from the gyms 
themselves, which is always a a 

866
00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:39,720
question I have in my mind. 
You already have the clients. 

867
00:45:40,920 --> 00:45:44,480
They're the ones that are the 
potential biggest adopters of 

868
00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:45,880
these things. 
Yeah, that's true. 

869
00:45:46,120 --> 00:45:48,720
So. 
I think, I mean, I think you're,

870
00:45:48,800 --> 00:45:52,240
I think there's definitely 
something around the types of 

871
00:45:52,240 --> 00:45:54,520
members that we have are super 
engaged anyway and, and they're 

872
00:45:54,520 --> 00:45:57,320
going to do the right thing. 
It's how do you bring in people 

873
00:45:57,320 --> 00:46:01,160
who aren't engaged to perhaps if
you look at preventative health,

874
00:46:01,160 --> 00:46:05,680
you mentioned like for example, 
NHS type 2 diabetes is probably 

875
00:46:05,680 --> 00:46:07,720
one of the biggest costs in 
National Health Service and it 

876
00:46:07,720 --> 00:46:10,160
can be prevented with kind of 
lifestyle changes. 

877
00:46:10,160 --> 00:46:13,480
You know, one of them being more
active, staying healthy, eating 

878
00:46:13,480 --> 00:46:16,920
better. 
So it's trying to encourage 

879
00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:19,520
those kind of people into the 
system. 

880
00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:24,800
I was talking to the CTO for NHS
last week, came into the office,

881
00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:27,080
We did a bit of a kind of 
workshop with them. 

882
00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:30,800
And we were both saying that it 
would be great if for example 

883
00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:34,680
with the NHS, you mentioned 
vitality healthcare, where they 

884
00:46:34,680 --> 00:46:38,720
recognise that by rewarding 
people to doing the right things

885
00:46:38,920 --> 00:46:41,800
they actually save money because
actually then less claims. 

886
00:46:42,240 --> 00:46:43,520
But the same applies with the 
NHS. 

887
00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:47,320
So in my mind, wouldn't be great
if the NHS actually starts to 

888
00:46:47,320 --> 00:46:50,080
recognise actually helping 
people by giving them maybe gym 

889
00:46:50,080 --> 00:46:53,760
membership, because at the end 
of the day, it's going to help 

890
00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:57,840
them, preventing them going into
the NHS system, which is going 

891
00:46:57,840 --> 00:47:01,200
to reduce numbers, reduce costs 
ultimately. 

892
00:47:01,600 --> 00:47:04,320
And I'd be interested to see, 
you know, do the NHS think like 

893
00:47:04,320 --> 00:47:06,080
that? 
Think like vitality health 

894
00:47:06,080 --> 00:47:09,480
insurance that actually the 
prevention is better than the 

895
00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:13,120
cure and investing in those. 
I mean, it doesn't always, I 

896
00:47:13,120 --> 00:47:15,520
mean, gyms are one area that you
can go to do this. 

897
00:47:15,520 --> 00:47:18,280
I mean, park runs are really 
popular as well and they're 3. 

898
00:47:18,640 --> 00:47:22,440
So it's not just about, but it's
about creating that community 

899
00:47:22,440 --> 00:47:26,160
and recognising that people are 
all different and their needs 

900
00:47:26,160 --> 00:47:27,680
are different at different 
times. 

901
00:47:27,880 --> 00:47:31,200
And you know, the, the, the 
thing about going to a health 

902
00:47:31,200 --> 00:47:33,920
club is you've got people there 
who know what they're doing. 

903
00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:37,000
They're trained to help you. 
And, and even runners, I mean 

904
00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:40,440
this, I used to run and I'd made
a big mistake here training for 

905
00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:41,960
10K. 
He's just running, running, 

906
00:47:41,960 --> 00:47:43,880
running until I got injured. 
Of course. 

907
00:47:44,160 --> 00:47:45,640
It's like, why what we're doing 
wrong? 

908
00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:48,920
I want to realise was I was 
running too much and actually 

909
00:47:48,920 --> 00:47:51,000
what I need to do is more 
strength and conditioning help 

910
00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:54,520
to, you know, build the muscles 
stretching, how important 

911
00:47:54,520 --> 00:47:56,440
stretching, particularly as you 
get older. 

912
00:47:56,680 --> 00:48:01,320
So for me it was about 
understanding that, but I 

913
00:48:01,360 --> 00:48:06,360
actually started to hit the gym 
to actually supplement my 

914
00:48:06,360 --> 00:48:08,040
running. 
And actually as a result, I was 

915
00:48:08,040 --> 00:48:10,800
able to run faster and longer 
than before. 

916
00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:14,080
And and actually by just doing 
three runs a week, but then 

917
00:48:14,080 --> 00:48:16,800
doing strength and conditioning,
I was able to achieve much 

918
00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:19,520
better results than running 5-6 
times a week. 

919
00:48:20,840 --> 00:48:26,160
So the the other thing is like 
every time I go to a gym, there 

920
00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:29,440
is all of this equipment that 
they measure your data, your 

921
00:48:29,440 --> 00:48:33,560
data remained there. 
And like I wanted to ask you, 

922
00:48:33,560 --> 00:48:36,480
what's your opinion of this? 
Like what's going to happen? 

923
00:48:36,760 --> 00:48:43,680
Is this going to be that like 
there is going to be integration

924
00:48:43,680 --> 00:48:47,320
between everything or is this 
going to be 1 device that 

925
00:48:47,320 --> 00:48:52,200
actually measures all the 
information and provides you 

926
00:48:52,720 --> 00:48:55,400
with all of the information so 
the the devices are going to 

927
00:48:55,400 --> 00:48:58,000
stop countering measuring? 
Yeah, I mean. 

928
00:48:58,240 --> 00:49:01,640
Like if we go five years. 
Five years, I think it'll still 

929
00:49:01,640 --> 00:49:05,240
be lots of devices, but then the
integration will be key because 

930
00:49:05,920 --> 00:49:09,800
it's you've got such unique 
devices, devices that 

931
00:49:10,960 --> 00:49:13,320
accurately, accurately and the 
accurate's the key bit for me 

932
00:49:13,320 --> 00:49:17,720
like VO2 Max, things like that. 
You can't get that from some 

933
00:49:17,720 --> 00:49:21,480
devices will attempt to do a VO2
Max measurement, but you know, a

934
00:49:21,480 --> 00:49:23,560
maximal test is by far the most 
accurate. 

935
00:49:23,560 --> 00:49:25,520
But not everybody wants to put a
big mask on and run on a 

936
00:49:25,520 --> 00:49:28,280
treadmill. 
So but I think there are devices

937
00:49:28,280 --> 00:49:30,040
that do suboptimal that are 
quite accurate. 

938
00:49:30,040 --> 00:49:33,120
So I think, I think what, what 
we'll see is people have all got

939
00:49:33,120 --> 00:49:35,000
their favourites and maybe you, 
I mean, at the moment I'm 

940
00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:38,560
wearing two different wearables 
and recording information. 

941
00:49:38,880 --> 00:49:41,200
One's good at certain things, 
one's good at another set of 

942
00:49:41,200 --> 00:49:43,080
things. 
I don't think there would be one

943
00:49:43,280 --> 00:49:46,320
single device that does it all, 
not not in the next 5 years for 

944
00:49:46,320 --> 00:49:49,000
sure. 
So I think the key bit is the 

945
00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:52,640
integration is getting that 
data, those data sources in and 

946
00:49:52,640 --> 00:49:55,640
building that picture, then 
that's going to be the key bit. 

947
00:49:57,240 --> 00:50:03,560
Thoughts about argentic AI? 
Gosh, yeah. 

948
00:50:04,720 --> 00:50:09,520
I, I, I think agentic AI is 
something that everybody needs 

949
00:50:09,520 --> 00:50:12,120
to pay attention to. 
I think it's phenomenal. 

950
00:50:12,640 --> 00:50:16,400
I, I, I would say I've been to a
number of conferences this year 

951
00:50:16,720 --> 00:50:19,680
on which actually cloud 
conferences that all they talked

952
00:50:19,680 --> 00:50:22,760
about was agentic AI and the 
capability that they're enabling

953
00:50:22,760 --> 00:50:28,000
through cloud. 
I, I would say in many respects,

954
00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:31,560
I've been to technology 
conferences before where things 

955
00:50:31,560 --> 00:50:33,960
are over hyped. 
I'd actually say this time I 

956
00:50:33,960 --> 00:50:37,520
think it's actually under hyped.
I think the next two to three 

957
00:50:37,520 --> 00:50:40,840
years will be phenomenal. 
And I think organisations have 

958
00:50:40,840 --> 00:50:45,720
got to look at processes where 
they can automate and how 

959
00:50:45,720 --> 00:50:50,200
identic AI can do that. 
I know developers, software 

960
00:50:50,200 --> 00:50:51,840
engineers will probably push 
back a bit. 

961
00:50:51,840 --> 00:50:54,600
I mean, I know for example, 
Goldman Sachs recently have 

962
00:50:54,600 --> 00:50:59,240
employed identic AI coder and 
you know that that's got a 

963
00:50:59,240 --> 00:51:01,840
little bit of probably backlash.
But again, it's like you've got 

964
00:51:01,840 --> 00:51:03,120
to embrace it. 
It's going to happen. 

965
00:51:03,600 --> 00:51:07,520
So it's better to get on the 
bandwagon early, be an early 

966
00:51:07,520 --> 00:51:10,400
adopter, try it, understand it. 
How can it complement what 

967
00:51:10,400 --> 00:51:13,600
you've already got? 
I think everybody needs to take 

968
00:51:13,600 --> 00:51:16,680
note of AI and play with AI. 
It's not just for technologies 

969
00:51:16,680 --> 00:51:18,880
as well. 
I like the idea of like simple, 

970
00:51:18,880 --> 00:51:22,640
low code, no code environments 
where you can build agents and 

971
00:51:22,640 --> 00:51:24,840
play with agents. 
It's got, it's got a lot of 

972
00:51:24,840 --> 00:51:27,680
opportunity, but I can see where
there's a lot of nervousness 

973
00:51:27,680 --> 00:51:30,360
because it will displace people 
from jobs. 

974
00:51:31,520 --> 00:51:32,960
Companies will look to save 
money. 

975
00:51:33,080 --> 00:51:36,840
You know, an agent that can work
24/7 doesn't need a lunch break.

976
00:51:37,320 --> 00:51:41,080
Is, is, is quite appealing, but 
it's got to be done responsibly 

977
00:51:41,160 --> 00:51:43,440
and, you know, and accurately as
well. 

978
00:51:43,440 --> 00:51:46,120
I mean, there's a lot around the
training of the models, where 

979
00:51:46,120 --> 00:51:49,080
the data's coming from and 
making sure it's accurate. 

980
00:51:50,200 --> 00:51:53,440
There is all all of the time 
this talk about AGI. 

981
00:51:54,680 --> 00:51:55,800
Do you think it's happening 
soon? 

982
00:51:56,320 --> 00:51:59,720
Not soon, but I think it's not 
soon, but I I have seen some 

983
00:51:59,720 --> 00:52:04,320
very interesting stuff with 
robotics coupled with with AI 

984
00:52:04,320 --> 00:52:07,720
large language models. 
And yeah, it's quite exciting 

985
00:52:07,720 --> 00:52:11,200
times with that, but I don't 
think it's anytime soon. 

986
00:52:11,400 --> 00:52:15,000
I'm I'm not close enough to 
certainly the prototyping and 

987
00:52:15,000 --> 00:52:17,880
AGI and some of the companies 
that are probably doing a lot of

988
00:52:18,440 --> 00:52:24,080
secret squirrel stuff with it. 
But my view is not yet, but I 

989
00:52:24,080 --> 00:52:28,600
think agentic AI certainly the 
next 2-3 years will be huge if. 

990
00:52:30,080 --> 00:52:37,400
You could adopt A IS right now 
internally in Virgin and those 

991
00:52:37,400 --> 00:52:39,000
things would be finished right 
now. 

992
00:52:39,440 --> 00:52:41,560
What do you do? 
What do you do look like with 

993
00:52:41,600 --> 00:52:42,200
AI? 
Yeah. 

994
00:52:43,360 --> 00:52:47,680
I think for me, the, the, the, 
the start would be helping 

995
00:52:47,720 --> 00:52:50,840
customer services teams and it's
it's probably, and I don't mean 

996
00:52:50,840 --> 00:52:52,800
chat bots. 
I'm not, I'm not mean chat bots.

997
00:52:52,800 --> 00:52:59,000
I I mean a gentic AI looking at 
members contacts through 

998
00:52:59,120 --> 00:53:01,840
customer services channels, 
through the app feedback 

999
00:53:01,840 --> 00:53:04,800
channels, feedback loops and 
responding to that in near real 

1000
00:53:04,800 --> 00:53:06,560
time. 
Again, I talk about that that 

1001
00:53:06,560 --> 00:53:09,400
member who becomes disengaged, 
maybe because they they've 

1002
00:53:09,560 --> 00:53:13,240
complained about something yeah,
that might be in a work you 

1003
00:53:13,240 --> 00:53:16,920
somebody for somebody and they 
might get round to it in 24 

1004
00:53:16,920 --> 00:53:18,480
hours. 
It might take longer, but if we 

1005
00:53:18,480 --> 00:53:21,760
could respond quicker with the 
kind of right, the kind of 

1006
00:53:21,760 --> 00:53:24,640
engagement and outcomes and and 
make sure that that that that 

1007
00:53:24,760 --> 00:53:27,000
member gets re engaged. 
We learn from that and we keep 

1008
00:53:27,000 --> 00:53:29,520
training. 
That's quite an easy, I think 

1009
00:53:29,680 --> 00:53:32,920
win for us. 
And I don't mean replacing 

1010
00:53:32,920 --> 00:53:35,720
customer services agents here 
because they're they've got, you

1011
00:53:35,720 --> 00:53:39,880
know, a hell of a job to do. 
And we're quite a lean team. 

1012
00:53:39,880 --> 00:53:43,400
So it's just trying to augment 
what they already do, support 

1013
00:53:43,400 --> 00:53:46,000
them in that, helping them 
service the right data. 

1014
00:53:46,640 --> 00:53:49,920
I think as well in the sales 
pipelines as well with Leeds is 

1015
00:53:49,920 --> 00:53:52,520
is helping to kind of look at 
Leeds scoring agents to kind of 

1016
00:53:52,520 --> 00:53:55,600
work behind the scenes to look 
at, you know, who who's a high 

1017
00:53:55,600 --> 00:53:59,000
probability of signing up. 
How should we sign them up, 

1018
00:53:59,640 --> 00:54:02,360
tailoring the packages for that 
particular individual as well. 

1019
00:54:02,680 --> 00:54:04,640
But working in near real time to
do that. 

1020
00:54:05,040 --> 00:54:06,880
I think that's, that's a big win
as well. 

1021
00:54:07,800 --> 00:54:10,440
I think chat bots, you know, 
dumb chat bots aren't agentic 

1022
00:54:10,480 --> 00:54:13,800
AI. 
And you know, so I think it's 

1023
00:54:13,800 --> 00:54:17,640
got to be careful with what is 
actually real AI versus what 

1024
00:54:17,640 --> 00:54:25,680
looks like AI. 
If there is a graduate right now

1025
00:54:25,880 --> 00:54:29,760
and graduating from the 
university and they want to have

1026
00:54:29,760 --> 00:54:34,840
the career that you have or that
you have, what is your advice to

1027
00:54:34,840 --> 00:54:37,880
them? 
So are they at university or 

1028
00:54:37,920 --> 00:54:39,520
just graduated? 
He just graduated, just 

1029
00:54:39,520 --> 00:54:45,280
graduated. 
So I mean, firstly, I'll give my

1030
00:54:45,280 --> 00:54:49,160
daughter the same advice is, is 
you've got to embrace failure 

1031
00:54:49,280 --> 00:54:51,720
firstly. 
So you there's, there's going to

1032
00:54:51,720 --> 00:54:54,200
be lots of job opportunities 
hopefully. 

1033
00:54:54,200 --> 00:54:56,200
And you're going to have to 
apply for a lot of jobs. 

1034
00:54:57,000 --> 00:54:58,560
You might not get the first one 
that comes along. 

1035
00:54:58,680 --> 00:55:01,720
So I think I was quite lucky 
when I was at university that it

1036
00:55:01,720 --> 00:55:04,920
was almost a given having a 
degree that you walk into a job 

1037
00:55:05,840 --> 00:55:07,680
and that kind of happened. 
For me that was the case 

1038
00:55:07,680 --> 00:55:09,640
actually. 
Yeah, it was, it was, it was the

1039
00:55:09,640 --> 00:55:10,720
case. 
I mean, not everybody went to 

1040
00:55:10,720 --> 00:55:15,680
university and it was still 
probably not the norm when I 

1041
00:55:15,680 --> 00:55:17,160
was. 
I mean, I'm, I'm getting on a 

1042
00:55:17,160 --> 00:55:18,080
bit now. 
So yeah. 

1043
00:55:18,320 --> 00:55:20,840
Yeah. 
So for me, it was, it was a 

1044
00:55:20,840 --> 00:55:23,280
given that you went to 
university and it that was 

1045
00:55:23,280 --> 00:55:26,200
enough to differentiate you. 
And as a result, companies came 

1046
00:55:26,200 --> 00:55:27,520
knocking on the door and you got
a job. 

1047
00:55:27,520 --> 00:55:29,960
You know, the companies have 
actually come to university. 

1048
00:55:30,240 --> 00:55:31,360
They'd actually come in the 
third year. 

1049
00:55:32,720 --> 00:55:34,960
I'm, I'm sure that happens at 
certain universities, but not 

1050
00:55:34,960 --> 00:55:37,120
all today. 
But you know, there's a lot of 

1051
00:55:37,240 --> 00:55:40,920
lot of people graduating from 
university and so therefore 

1052
00:55:40,920 --> 00:55:44,360
there's more applicants per job.
So first thing you need to do is

1053
00:55:44,400 --> 00:55:47,480
you got to embrace failure. 
But you know, don't be afraid to

1054
00:55:47,480 --> 00:55:50,200
apply for jobs. 
And, and even if it's not the 

1055
00:55:50,200 --> 00:55:54,200
job you think that you want, I 
still say go for it because 

1056
00:55:54,200 --> 00:55:57,640
you'll learn something anyway. 
And you never know, you never 

1057
00:55:57,640 --> 00:56:00,080
know. 
So that's my first bit of advice

1058
00:56:00,080 --> 00:56:03,080
is apply for the jobs, embrace 
the fail, learn from each 

1059
00:56:03,280 --> 00:56:05,520
encounter. 
You know, even if it's just not 

1060
00:56:05,520 --> 00:56:08,080
getting through the first stage 
with your CV, right, Go back and

1061
00:56:08,080 --> 00:56:11,480
remodel that CV tailor it for 
that job description, make sure 

1062
00:56:11,480 --> 00:56:14,000
it's tailored. 
Pick out the points, the salient

1063
00:56:14,000 --> 00:56:17,440
points they're looking for. 
Don't just hand over a generic 

1064
00:56:17,440 --> 00:56:20,240
CV tailor it for that particular
job. 

1065
00:56:20,240 --> 00:56:23,120
So spend a bit, you know, spend 
half an hour just pulling out 

1066
00:56:23,120 --> 00:56:25,400
and making it relevant because 
that's the first thing. 

1067
00:56:25,680 --> 00:56:28,600
I mean, who knows, they might be
using AI to filter the, the, the

1068
00:56:28,600 --> 00:56:31,880
CVS, right? 
So do that and then just prepare

1069
00:56:31,920 --> 00:56:34,120
well for the interview. 
Make sure you know the company, 

1070
00:56:34,120 --> 00:56:36,840
do a bit of wider reading, spend
some time invest in it. 

1071
00:56:36,840 --> 00:56:39,640
Don't just rock up, you know, 
try and understand the kind of 

1072
00:56:39,640 --> 00:56:40,960
questions they're going to be 
looking for. 

1073
00:56:41,280 --> 00:56:44,880
Know the company background. 
Look keen, look curious that 

1074
00:56:44,880 --> 00:56:47,560
that for me is the first bit. 
And then when you've actually 

1075
00:56:47,560 --> 00:56:52,880
landed that job, it's like look 
around you make, you know, make 

1076
00:56:53,840 --> 00:56:56,680
increase your network of friends
of, of people who who are, I 

1077
00:56:56,680 --> 00:56:58,640
call them friends because I 
spend most of my time with 

1078
00:56:58,640 --> 00:57:00,400
people at work, right? 
So you've got to get on with 

1079
00:57:00,400 --> 00:57:03,720
them, but appreciate their job 
function, what they're doing, 

1080
00:57:03,720 --> 00:57:05,560
the problems that they're 
encountering and start to 

1081
00:57:05,760 --> 00:57:08,680
embrace that and learn. 
So don't just do your job. 

1082
00:57:08,680 --> 00:57:12,480
Try and look at a wider, you 
know, the wider organization, 

1083
00:57:12,480 --> 00:57:13,800
whatever else she's doing and 
why? 

1084
00:57:14,560 --> 00:57:16,560
Because I think that really 
helps accelerate you as 

1085
00:57:16,560 --> 00:57:18,840
understanding how companies 
operate and work. 

1086
00:57:20,000 --> 00:57:23,080
I think that's my advice and I 
think as well is just don't be 

1087
00:57:23,080 --> 00:57:26,120
afraid to have a go at things. 
Definitely don't hold back. 

1088
00:57:27,120 --> 00:57:30,200
Yeah. 
And for the last question, if 

1089
00:57:30,200 --> 00:57:35,440
you if you go 50 years into the 
future and you see backwards, 

1090
00:57:35,960 --> 00:57:40,480
what does the maybe health 
system look like and what does 

1091
00:57:40,480 --> 00:57:48,160
the gym experience look like? 
Wow, 50 years from now, I think 

1092
00:57:48,160 --> 00:57:51,160
the way things are going, I, I, 
I think it'll be fully 

1093
00:57:51,160 --> 00:57:54,600
connected. 
So, and this is where privacy 

1094
00:57:54,960 --> 00:57:59,560
absolutely needs to be playing a
part here because it's almost 

1095
00:57:59,560 --> 00:58:03,720
like you've got a digital twin. 
So I talk a bit about I'd sport,

1096
00:58:03,720 --> 00:58:05,800
you know, Formula One. 
I mean, the cars, they, they, 

1097
00:58:05,920 --> 00:58:09,000
they, they test the vehicles 
digitally first before they, 

1098
00:58:09,000 --> 00:58:11,280
they physically build because 
it's more cost effective. 

1099
00:58:11,920 --> 00:58:18,000
And I think with healthcare, you
know, with DNA genome, you're 

1100
00:58:18,000 --> 00:58:21,560
going to get a digital twin that
will be constant and with the 

1101
00:58:21,560 --> 00:58:24,400
wearable data and that will have
evolved in 50 years time, it'll 

1102
00:58:24,400 --> 00:58:26,640
be phenomenal how much data 
you'll be getting. 

1103
00:58:27,160 --> 00:58:29,760
We'll be constantly looking and 
it'll be all about preventative.

1104
00:58:29,800 --> 00:58:33,440
It'll all be about nudging and 
making sure that you don't go 

1105
00:58:33,440 --> 00:58:35,600
down that path. 
I mean, it, it, it could be 

1106
00:58:35,720 --> 00:58:39,320
really phenomenal if it's done 
properly and, and for the right 

1107
00:58:39,320 --> 00:58:42,960
reasons as well, which should be
to, you know, prevent, you know,

1108
00:58:42,960 --> 00:58:48,200
health, poor health outcomes. 
I mean, the advancements in, in 

1109
00:58:48,200 --> 00:58:51,320
cancer screening and the ability
to catch that early. 

1110
00:58:51,920 --> 00:58:54,360
You know, I hope in 50 years 
time that will evolve 

1111
00:58:54,360 --> 00:58:58,280
phenomenally to the point that 
we'll be taking preventive steps

1112
00:58:58,280 --> 00:59:02,120
before, you know, it even comes 
up in a test, for example. 

1113
00:59:02,680 --> 00:59:05,080
So, but I think there's also the
mental health bits. 

1114
00:59:05,080 --> 00:59:07,320
So even if you're staying 
healthy, there's the the stress 

1115
00:59:07,360 --> 00:59:11,400
of day-to-day, you know, the the
digital bit does create stress, 

1116
00:59:11,400 --> 00:59:14,320
a burden on people. 
So how do we help people still 

1117
00:59:14,320 --> 00:59:17,840
stay in tune with nature doing, 
you know, just doing a walk, 

1118
00:59:17,840 --> 00:59:20,080
going, getting some fresh air. 
Those are things that are so 

1119
00:59:20,080 --> 00:59:22,760
important to people. 
So it's trying to build that 

1120
00:59:22,760 --> 00:59:25,400
into the workplace as well. 
So making sure that companies 

1121
00:59:25,400 --> 00:59:30,560
adapt to giving people time and 
space for their well-being. 

1122
00:59:31,680 --> 00:59:33,800
But yeah, it'll be a connected 
rule for sure. 

1123
00:59:33,800 --> 00:59:36,160
And I think we'll probably all 
have digital twins. 

1124
00:59:38,360 --> 00:59:40,040
Yeah, David, thank you so much. 
Thank you. 

1125
00:59:40,160 --> 00:59:40,600
Thank you.