My name is Aaron and I've been practicing for a little over 12
years. I'm needing more.
I'm dependent on this meditation and in that I'm searching for.
I thought, well, since I'm the one doing it, I should probably
lead it and do it. And I had this in the back of my
mind to do this book. Beginner mind, Zen mind.
And I picked it up a long time ago thinking like, oh, that
sounds like a beginner book and it is not.
And I know we have some beginners here and this may or
may not be wonderful for that. But I wanted to talk about the
beginner mind because it said I've been practicing for 12
years. And when I first came, it seemed
like there was this some of the things that I found in the book
that were very present that are less present now in my practice
that are wonderful than mid Mr. before we sat, I wanted to
reemphasize our posture in the the opening of of the section.
His his name is Suzuki and he he addressed posture as a big piece
of what we're doing when we sit with us in the crossing of the
legs or the holding of the mudra can represent a dualistic and
conflicts that have resonated throughout the rest of the
section as we hold our hands together and one, we can
identify this as the mudra as one item or a left hand and a
right hand. And so is this a oral thing or
is this a one thing and your mind and your body, are they one
thing? Are there two things?
If you say it is one thing that you are wrong, you say it is two
things that you are wrong is more complicated than than that
symbol do out. But in the emphasis on the
posture holding the chin in holding yourself in a stable,
balanced, controlled cause the just the energy mentally and
physically that it takes to maintain that can hold you in a
state that he identified as the the Zen state and that just
sitting with intention holding that posture is as it and it
takes happening more to be desired than it's a bats.
I have Terrell the last years of my life meditated.
I found relationships to how meditation has proved my
relationships with people, how it's improved my work
performance, how it's improved my view in life and my overdose
happiness. And then in that process it
mapped Zazen and city as as a responsibility relationship to
those things. And so I've lost just the nature
of sitting today as I sat and just focus on the cost beer just
with absolute effort to this hold the Foster and then
breathing as well. Something that they talk about.
This is a little out there, but the options in the world outside
of you is infinite and what you can do when you're is also
infinite does your breathe. You draw the air out from an
infinite source and into an infinite source and that we are
only the door or the passageway. So often times when I do
breathing focuses, I think and I worry about the breath and I
control the breath. But in the bazaar and state,
we're supposed to just observe it and not foil it or change it.
And I have these in stress revealing things that we were 8
seconds in, eight seconds hold, 8 seconds out, eight seconds
home. We do these different things and
we think of those as administrative, but they are,
but they are not this basic Sauzen state.
That is just the focus of this chapter was to just kind of
simplify it, reduce it and bring it back to that setting.
Just being still and aware of the oneness or the popularity or
everything, just being being still.
Towards the end of the section, he talked about these four
horses and the Buddha would say there were four horses.
There's very good horses, big horses, bad horses and terrible
horses. A good horse when the lip comes
it it runs when it first nose look is coming.
The pretty good horse will run when it can feel the whip about
to reach it, and then a bad voice means the whip to actually
hit its skin and a a fair die force doesn't move until it
feels it in the marrow. And I know I think pervasions a
lot of this. I'm speaking to my personal
experience, but in this analogy Buddha spoke at the very bad
forces. Not the worst thing to be in
Zazen and that. So.
Often time when we are good at something, we we can't get
better at it because we're already good about it and we
don't have the skill set to grow word with that.
But if we are terrible at that, then we have to work on it.
We have to sit, but that we have to reshape our thinking about
it. We have to use it, use almost
exercises to get there. And he used an example of people
who were very good at calligraphy with the very super
bright, wonderful people that tried polygraphy would get to a
certain skill level and just stop.
And people that you would not they would be successful with.
That's when we'll be able to try.
I listen to this on an audio book or in video audio
performance because that's how I process information.
And so, so much of things that I feel when I navigate to the
world, some things are just simple and easy for me and I see
other people struggle with them with perplexion and some things
I see other people just do with these.
I think that that's such a halt and it it is something that is
very much why Capture says. But in this reading, I was able
to see that, go back and look at things that are easy for you and
understand that you still might need to focus here and do the
better on that. In that, also reflecting on the
text, the Dharma that we're reading, if you did look at it,
you could consume it. It was very repetitive.
And in that it was also stating within tech this as we read, as
we take in our Dharma to make sure that we're looking at it
without all the filters that I've been talking about of our
experience. Guess it's like getting to it,
but the beginner is in mind. In mind the idea of the
beginner's mind. This just see things with the
emptiness of mind where things are new like child and see then
and the value that you can add to your interaction with your
experience that that breeze. That is a lot of word salus
because I'm watching video word salad.
I'm going to open it up to the group.
Does anybody read or watch the clip?
So if anybody had any other comments on the reading or any
questions about it, I'll have no before.
Reading is good. I don't belt this precania what
you said, but sometimes employees lost someone without
experience so they can teach in the right way doing these
because like how can you feel a full cut, you know, and I think
that the. Older we get.
Sometimes when you accumulate junk, we think they know
everything almost and they think that like pure Landryism, they
teach pure Mine is the original line that's that's always there.
But we have our ego. We have all of our all the
things that we think we know is true, you know, even though
everything's a permanent and we can't fill our cup.
In the head. It's it's already filled with
all the stuff we think it should be filled.
Oh, you wonder why sometimes things in the where they are.
That's all I get. And Danielle, thank you.
Aaron for that talk. It's been a long time since I've
read. Zen mind.
Beginner mind and I appreciate that you walked through the the
first part of it helped. Breakdown a lot of.
Concepts and. There was a lot and what you say
and I appreciate that it's going to take me a little while to
kind of digest it I think, but couple of the.
Things that you brought up. Really hit me and probably
because whatever is going on for me right now, it was really
useful and I think the two that were most that are most present.
For me right now are the idea of.
As I was in being about observation and not like
obligation and. The and the.
Beginner's mind. The the idea of.
Zazan being about observation was really, really important for
me and is part of my practice because.
I'm a I'm a. Spoily person, I'm like a doer.
I'm like I have to always do something no matter what it is.
It's I don't, I can't sit still for very long and that is also
at work, like always having to do something at work and even
with relationships like it's for most of my life it was.
Very well, I. Didn't know how to just be.
I actually thought that like just being was being lazy and
procrastinating and lots of negative connotations with being
still. So coming here and learning
that. Like the idea of.
Being still is not being lazy. It's it's.
It's being observant about what's happening, but without
judgement because in those moments in my life when I would
be still, there was so much judgement of like, am I being
still for too long? Is this is this enough of a rest
or am I am I is, am I exceeding some threshold?
So much judgement. So it's just was really useful.
Like my only task while I'm sitting in Zazen is to just sit.
And then allow. Whatever is coming up and not,
and it doesn't have to mean anything because that was,
that's the other thing. Like if I have a thought, it
must be brilliant and I really have to analyze it because I had
a thought, you know, but it doesn't have to be it's, I can
just observe like, oh, a thought came up or Oh, I'm seeing this
in my body. And it, it's been a really
useful tool to, to know that that is OK because I honestly
just didn't know that that was OK to just sit and observe
things. I I thought.
The only. Reason to observe something was
to act on it. And sometimes it's, you just
observe it and, and that's really, really useful to me.
And I think that for me, that also relates to the idea of
beginner's mind because again, you know, like I, I always want
to know what the answer is and I want to know what the right
thing is. And I want to know what I'm
supposed to do and that. Requires a whole lot of.
Assumed knowledge and judgments. And if you approach something
with a beginner's mind, well, you don't know.
You have to just observe kind of what's coming up and experience
it as it is when you when you do something for the very first
time. It's like what is.
What is this thing? What's happening you you don't
have all the experience of like it should be this way or you
should do it? That way so.
It was a lot that that you said that I really appreciate, but
those two things really just they they've been a really
important part of my practice and thank you for the reminder.
I've I've kind of felt a sterile this in my practice per bit and
I felt that that I read the introduction of it.
So I wonder if this is on audible and you know when I on
the 1st 5 minutes and we actually for those who was here
instead of doing the top, I was just like this is perfect.
This is exactly the fact this is 5 minute talk is what I wanted
to talk about and then I was working for more on the Internet
where I found out. Oh, the whole thing's so but it
that first 5 minutes I just was in my house with the industry.
Yes, you get their mind and I've gone through maybe 5 or 6 years
here. Emptiness would be we sudden it
and I felt like at the time, I 100%, absolutely understand
emptiness. And that lasted about 5 minutes
and then I didn't understand it at all.
But in the book, just in the opening, a way to describe it,
it's that tease of like, oh, it's just as simple as
beginner's boy. That's emptiness amazingly
complex and hard to understand what it's full swing, but also
just the simplest come to it was nothing and see it without
judgement. It's incredibly hard, but
conceptually it is very. Powerful.
And I don't think that the culture in America really, and I
encourage this, is sitting and being.
You know what I mean? The other places don't close on
Sundays and on afternoon, you know, rests, you know, siestas
and stuff. But we have to keep you except
the whole time or else you're a loser.
Well, I know I'm just kidding, but you know, it's just like
productivity. It seems to be a major focus.
We don't get enough rests. One piece.
My name is Kathy and I go to the gym.
And have a trainer. And I've been athletic all my
life and there's comfort in doing the things.
That I'm good at. I'm familiar because I'm.
Old and I. My cop is both but the trainer.
Says no. This is new to.
These. Hand weights, so the.
Phrase beginner's mind. Is like the I love that phrase.
I have read the book is. There is a possibility that you
can learn something new, that there's something else out
there. And so the trainer said,
whatever it is you're avoiding or that Dewey, that's what you
need to work on. I didn't like that advice
because really good at certain things and then those other ones
I think. Oh, those are for.
Men, it's you know, not for the graceful womanly body and says
no, you got muscles back there lady, use so that phrase.
If we could say. That to ourselves every day, the
beginner's mind, every day is a new opportunity.
Every day you just let it unfold and say to yourself.
Maybe, maybe I could do that. Maybe I could do?
Lap pulled outs. I don't know and the only way
to. Find out it was to say.
Maybe some? I'm Megan.
I'm new here tonight. I read that book A.
Couple of times and I just reread it last year and and I
came to like learning about this house and through Natalie go
Burke and wrote. Yeah, but isn't.
It run down the. Balls, it's a writing craft book
and she's study with a Zen. Master.
She still does, but. She was fought against it all
the time and her Zen master was bomber.
Like look, your practice is probably writing.
Like don't worry about zazen, it makes you angry.
And she keeps. Doing all of that and so like
from her I I learned or I got the idea.
That like zazen? Kind of supports the rest of
your life like the rest of your practice and in a forms that and
it's kind of like Stephen King says, you know, don't cut her
that the writing supports your life.
So that introduction goes. To your my memory of the book is
like kind of sketchy. But.
I remember him talking. About those four horses.
Like the excellent horse and then very good horse and.
Bring a bad horse, terrible horse, or whatever.
Oh, and then I guess so with a beginner's mind.
There's so much freedom. OK, so.
Whoever has readers familiar with that part?
As you were talking about that, I'm thinking there's an.
Implication of violence. There and like force and being
compelled. To do.
This thing which is. Totally.
Optional like know what's making us come here?
I do this word and which is also like very elemental and basic,
you know, deceptively simple. It's not and the same as the
writing. Nobody was making us do it, but
we feel compelled to do it. So like, what do you?
Like I would love. To know thoughts on.
That. Kind of threat of.
Violence and I feeling and being compelled to.
Do this practice. That's totally.
Optional. Actually can I because I was
also. Really uncomfortable with the
kind of I the. Violence in the horses and I was
like why, why are we whipping horses again?
And it was, it made me like really uncomfortable.
And I and I thank you for bringing this up and especially
putting it into this context of like the idea of zazen and and
requiring like the implication that it requires this kind of
like violence what I would. Say is.
Actually, what it requires is skillful, skillful effort.
That's part of the Eightfold Path.
And the idea is not that we have to punish ourselves or we have
to make it difficult for ourselves, but we have to apply
an appropriate amount of effort to the tasks that we do.
And some of the tasks that are more difficult for us but are
also really helpful for us require more effort.
I wouldn't say more violence, right?
I don't think that that's helpful because I think that
that can go wrong in a lot of ways, but sometimes they require
more effort. And I think figuring out what
skillful effort is for us is important.
And I think this is one of the things like, like Kathy, you
were talking about your trainer saying like, oh, you're trying
to avoid that. That's what you should focus on.
We talked about that a lot, right?
The same sort of thing is something is, is healthy for
you, skillful for you, or even was recommended to you and you
find yourself pushing away. It probably requires a little
bit more effort for you to kind of get back into that thing.
What I would say is be careful with how you apply the effort.
So I'm just going to recommend that you put down the whip.
Let's, let's not like whipping the horses.
Let's not do that, but let's figure out what appropriate
effort is and how can you apply effort in the direction of
something that is skillful for you, but that will that will
allow. You to make it.
Less effortful. Do do you know what I mean?
Like sometimes we have this idea.
Of like the right. Thing the quote UN quote right
thing. You have to do it this way.
I call this like, you know, Buddha your way.
Through like, oh, I'm. Supposed to sit this way and I'm
just going to sit here even though my legs are falling
asleep and I'm not going to be able to walk but this is what
I'm supposed to do so I'm just. Going to do it and.
I don't think that that is skillful effort.
I, I do think that you can say like, OK, being uncomfortable in
this situation is part of my practice.
Like, like when you're talking about going to the gym and and
doing some exercises, it's difficult.
It can cause discomfort and you have to apply a certain amount
of effort to be like, I can do this, but we can do that.
We can apply effort in a compassionate way.
We can say, I mean, I'm trying to learn this myself.
I can say to myself, you've done difficult things before.
You can do this. Of course you're feeling
resistant to this because it is a difficult thing for you, but
it's you have the capacity to do it that is like, and for me
anyway, an appropriate amount of effort to apply to a situation
that I know I need to do, but that is difficult for me, right?
So I think that that's probably a more helpful frame than
thinking about how much you have to beat your force with your
whip, thinking about like what is an?
Appropriate. Amount of effort and what can
allow you to open the door to the thing that you need to do?
Like what? What will help you do that
instead of punish you into doing that?
I think that's that makes a lot of sense.
To me and I think to. Thinking about why you.
Have. To or compel to or.
Want to do it is really important to me, figuring out
like first of all, I hated doing that.
That was terrible. I'll.
Probably do it again, but you know I did not I.
Didn't do it right. I was super fidgety.
I ended up like. Tracing.
All of the details of this huge bite.
I had with my parents, like my last night of high school, like,
OK, which way did I walk? You know, I don't think that's
what this is supposed to be about, but.
Knowing why to do. This practice, like any other
practice, is optional. I didn't be.
Able to it's like. It comes down to me right in
this moment as like. You do it because it's worth it.
And you get to define that like you like to go to the gym caddy
because it's. Worth it?
And. Ones that you do though, what
you don't do going to sleep, you don't even do riding a bike.
You just put in the tension and practice.
You know, I don't know lately when I was riding that pipe, but
eventually I was able to ride it.
So it might need to be unfolded. And don't take the seat off when
you're writing the bike, you know, Enjoy it, you know?
This is your rest. This is your.
Time you don't have to worry about the future, you don't have
to worry about the past. I know that T you sent him down.
Obviously I know that, but but you're, you're here and this is
your time, you know so. Are you?
Saying that like it's. OK, that I trace.
A long yeah, so. Yeah, actually, Micah, don't
forget your point. But you did it, right?
Because it's fine. OK, So this is one, this is this
is one of those things where people are like, what is the
right way to meditate? The right way to meditate is the
way that gets you to meditate. So there can be more and less
skillful ways to meditate, right?
There can be, you know, deeper and more surface ways to
meditate, of course, right. But any way to meditate that
gets you meditating is the right way.
So, so I, I, we have a discussion about this a lot,
right? So it may not have been like a
peaceful meditation. It may not have been the like,
you know, light shining down from above meditation, but it's
still meditation, right? It's it.
Maybe it's unfortunate that you meditated on an argument that
happened so long ago, but you know, it's.
Still, it's still. Kind of a meditation.
And this is another one of those things like if you if you have
certain expectations, it has to be this way.
There's if there's going to be variation in that.
The other thing is meditation is an exercise.
It's brain exercise, right? So one of the former leaders
here, Dave, used to talk about different kinds of meditation.
Like, like the kind of meditation that we sort of
visualize is like, imagine you were rowing a boat across the
lake, a lake, right? And the lake is flat and
pristine and totally still. And you're just like rowing.
And you're like, yeah, I'm in groove.
I'm rolling across the lake and just fly across that rate late,
right? That's the kind of ideal
meditation that we have. But if you are in that boat and
it's stormy and choppy and you're rowing and you're putting
in all this effort to like, come on, I'm going to get across
like, which one is better exercise for your brain, right?
So even those choppy meditations, it's still training
your brain to like, even if you're like, no, oh, no, come
back to this moment. And then you're like, oh, I'm
going to think about my grocery list.
Oh, wait, I'm going to come back to this moment.
Oh, my foot is itching. OK, I'm going to come back to
this moment. Every time you come back, it's
just another reputation repetition.
So you did it right. Yeah, maybe it's the masculinity
you need. But that's what I hear with the
horse. That's what you hear with the
horse. About the.
Yeah. With Mima, but it's an.
Allegory. Maybe back then when?
He wrote he was speaking about. Course and with.
Today we just. Talk about separate and we.
'Cause our own we suffer a lot. Some have more potential to bear
up than the light suffering that snaps you out of it.
So the whip to me had nothing to do with the IT was an allegory
and I saw the suffering. That.
Some people. And really do some sweaty.
Suffering and other people learn faster or shed their problems
easier, so there's no knowing. But it's an allegory, just to be
aware. My name is Lillian.
What you said really doesn't mean about.
The coming back, you know that I had a meditation teacher said
that, you know, that's that's where you know, that's that's
the import for like you're out there thinking about whatever
and they come back. That shift is that awareness
right there of like I would, you know, there's that sort of
fantasy, but then I'm back to. What are for reality?
Which is my. Breath or.
Or whatever so that he said like as long as you sit on the
cushion, you remain there, you generate meditation she no
matter what. So.
That would be a discourage. Like when I I would bring myself
back, it'd be a cows in that you know, and then that you know it,
that makes you hurt. Pumping makes you trying to, you
know, disturbed. But that part of the practice is
being able to do that and not let it fluster you.
Also, that's practice. Michael, you know, so first of
all. Mine is makeup, 80% of the time
I think I'm here. Like 80% of my meditations are
just what did you call it? Scatterbrained or whatever,
Whatever you call squirrelly, whatever it is.
And maybe that's. Because like I outside of here,
I have kind of system in place or a routine and my mind just
resi better and it's is better able to tap into that.
And ultimately, I think the goal would be to be able to tap into
it at any time. I think that's.
The goal is to be able to just live life back, you know?
With that level of. Awareness and so like but.
Actually what I want to talk. About is.
The the horses like the way I'm interpreting it is more similar
to what you were talking about in terms of observe, not.
What did you say? You said Oh my God, like.
Acts or judge? Where he it was so.
Good it was too. Over it was an O.
Observation versus. Obligation.
There was think. Observation versus obligation.
And to me, that's kind of when what it was getting at.
And that's why the, the example of, of violence, I think I'm not
going to say it's important, but to me, I really resonated with
that because what I struggle with is impulses that are like
my impulse reactions to an emotional situation, which feels
like an obligation, which feels like a compulsion.
And it is similar to that impulse reaction to like a
flinch or like however you know the an animal might be respond
to getting whipped or. Whatever, but I.
Think that's kind of why how I. Related to it because.
Emotionally that. Reaction is very similar to
maybe like the unimpulsive reaction to that.
I know that might not be exactly what you were.
But it really resonated with that.
I like the observation, not obligation.
That's what it feels like. So often it's like, I feel like
I need to do this thing. Like no.
That's not true. I.
Think. The idea of it?
Being an aldore but suffering, if I think about it in terms of
process that kind of removes like that like judgment of
whether it's in a positive or negative that like just the
resistance of like a horse against, you know, the wet
border us, you know, trying not to suffer.
So yeah. The roof I was first, I was
going to apologize I for all the noise during meditation.
I had to go out and come back in three times because because I
went out there because I remembered that my sunroof was
over when I got out in the hallway.
I didn't have my keys because they were.
Here on the floor. So I had to come back in and get
the keys. You are paying.
So it wasn't, it wasn't completely open, it was just
open like that. So it's a much.
More noise than that. That was happening, yeah.
That was massive, yeah. It was pretty wet inside, so I
just spent some time wiping it out, but it was for it was fine.
It wasn't, wasn't that much a problem, but that's why I was
making all that noise. And what you were saying really,
really resonated and, and some of what other people are saying.
Because I, I have this thing where I have a hard time doing
anything unless I can find a way to make it a sustainable thing.
So that that can be a good thing because it's like, I don't, I
don't like do things that seem unsustainable, like smoking
cigarettes is unsustainable because if you continue to do
that, you'll get sick. So I, I can't do something that
seems to be unsustainable. So I might avoid doing that's
like things that might not be good for me.
But then I also have a hard time doing things that might be good
for me unless I can find a way that they're sustainable, right?
Like for instance, if I want to work out, I can't just go, I'm
going to work out today unless I can think of a way that this is,
this can be a pattern. And so then sometimes I won't do
those things unless I can find a way to make it a pattern.
And that connected to what you were saying because Danielle,
because of. How I?
Also have this continuous urge to be doing stuff right.
Like you said, it's very American to feel like time is
supposed to be used in productivity in some way or
another, or the pursuit of some sort of pleasure.
So then if I find I find myself some time stuck between this
isn't I need to do something, but I can't find a sustainable
way to do it. And then I get stopped there
until I can find that this has to be done, but I have to find a
sustainable way to do it. It's not like a thing that I can
say, well, I this is a sustainable so forget about it.
It's like, no, this has to be done, but I can't figure it out.
And then I get stuck in this this like intermediate zone.
And so. Then that's when I try to just
say, all right, well, it is OK to just let this be the way the
deviates. I don't have to continuous.
I don't always do this very well, but I don't have to
continuously spin my wheels until this gets solved, right?
This isn't going to be solved right now.
I can't figure out a way to solve it right now, so I have to
live inside of it and observe it without a feeling of obligation
to complete it. But also.
You know, use, you know, think of find the right action
eventually, but not be not not not be in this like state of,
you know, discomfort until it's solved.
That doesn't work very much for me.
But I that's what I tried. So the next part is right
attitude. The book is beginner minds in
mind. It's available in the library,
but also from audio For those of us, it's just on YouTube.
There's the three hour little movie that you can watch.
There's a four hour what too? I don't know, but I'm doing the
three hours. This talk faster.
Norse. It's on Spotify.
Too. No, Yeah, OK.
Yeah, Peter Coyote is the one on the one that like, you know,
he's gonna really could badly voice like that's the new
Walter's. Just I'm doing the Peter Coyote.
Afford because we say. May the free of our practice.
Extend to all living. Beings.