1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:06,280 I'm Danielle and we we talked previously about Lojang, which 2 00:00:06,280 --> 00:00:09,080 is a Tibetan Buddhist mind training program. 3 00:00:09,080 --> 00:00:13,680 And the idea with Lojang is that you focus with great 4 00:00:15,240 --> 00:00:20,880 concentration on 59 different slogans, each in turn getting a 5 00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:24,440 lot of time to each slogan, concentrating and meditating on 6 00:00:24,440 --> 00:00:27,600 it so much that it settles into your body, and then you practice 7 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:31,240 it in your daily life. I'd like to talk about one of 8 00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:33,720 them that I think it's kind of interesting and I'm going to 9 00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:37,960 give it a little bit different spin than they usually do in the 10 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:42,800 traditional Lojang training. So I'm going to focus on slogan 11 00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:46,760 7, which is sending and taking should be practiced to. 12 00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:51,760 Alternately, these two should ride the breath in the Lojang 13 00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:53,040 training. In the Tibetan Buddhist 14 00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:56,920 tradition, this refers to the meditative practice of tonglen. 15 00:00:57,520 --> 00:01:02,720 So tonglen is like the other side of the coin from loving 16 00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:04,920 kindness meditation. So, you know, loving kindness 17 00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:09,120 meditation is where you generate good feelings towards others and 18 00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:13,280 may you be happy and may you be free from suffering and kind of 19 00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:17,560 pushing out that kind of loving kindness and you give loving 20 00:01:17,560 --> 00:01:21,600 kindness to yourself. Tonglen, on the other hand, is 21 00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:27,320 about taking in, you know, sadness or hurt or pain or anger 22 00:01:27,560 --> 00:01:31,320 and then sending out the positiveness and goodness and 23 00:01:31,320 --> 00:01:35,200 light and that kind of thing. And the idea with this with in 24 00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:39,280 the Tibetan version is that you breathe in, you know, the pain 25 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:42,440 and suffering of others and you breathe out kindness and 26 00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:45,160 compassion and, and light, that kind of thing. 27 00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:51,280 And it is to help us practice a little bit more balance for us 28 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:55,920 to understand the feeling of, of, of, of, of pain and 29 00:01:55,920 --> 00:02:00,760 suffering and to let it out. One of the challenges that I 30 00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:04,680 found when I have taught Tom Glenn before is that for people 31 00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:08,680 who tend to internalize a lot of other people's emotions anyway, 32 00:02:08,919 --> 00:02:11,640 it can be kind of harmful, right? 33 00:02:11,640 --> 00:02:14,760 Because for people, especially if you tend to kind of self 34 00:02:14,760 --> 00:02:18,320 blame or you tend to take a lot of responsibility for things. 35 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:22,200 If you're taking on other people's sadness or anger or 36 00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:27,040 negative feelings, it can often magnify like feelings that you 37 00:02:27,040 --> 00:02:29,720 already have in yourself. So it can be kind of harmful. 38 00:02:30,040 --> 00:02:32,840 So when I've when I've taught this to others and the way, but 39 00:02:32,840 --> 00:02:36,320 I also practice, it is a practice of acknowledging that 40 00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:40,640 there are negative feelings in the world and to take them and 41 00:02:40,640 --> 00:02:44,640 set them in your lack and then to breathe out kind of the, you 42 00:02:44,640 --> 00:02:47,040 know, the goodness of the light. And for me, that's a good 43 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:50,680 practice because it also helps me to remember not to take on 44 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:55,000 everybody else's pain, that it's OK to sit with difficult 45 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:58,040 feelings that come from other people without having to take 46 00:02:58,040 --> 00:03:01,000 them on. I've also used this kind of 47 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:05,720 tonglen training to help people who are really sensitive to 48 00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:10,760 other people's moods that feel like when other people are upset 49 00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:13,040 that it really throws them off balance. 50 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:16,840 And one of the ways that that I have helped people to deal with 51 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:20,840 that is by having them visualize like the other people's emotions 52 00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:23,520 are coming in and whether you take them in or not, because 53 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:25,520 some people just take them in without thinking. 54 00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:31,560 Then use your own body as like a conversion machine and translate 55 00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:36,240 that negative feeling into light and then kind of send it out 56 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:39,560 into the world. No matter what any of these 57 00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:44,000 practices, the idea is kind of a balance between taking and 58 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:47,720 sending. So not that you are especially 59 00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:51,320 some of us have a tendency to try to take the good things from 60 00:03:51,320 --> 00:03:53,960 from people because we're feeling bad and then we get 61 00:03:53,960 --> 00:03:55,680 grumpy and we send bad things out. 62 00:03:55,680 --> 00:03:59,680 So this is kind of the counter that also to instead of trying 63 00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:02,720 to like make yourself feel better by taking in good 64 00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:07,920 feelings, you can practice this path of awakening by taking in 65 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:11,760 negative feelings and then putting out good feelings. 66 00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:14,760 So that is the it's the meditative practice. 67 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:18,720 And this is the idea, you know, breathe in negativity and 68 00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:21,640 breathe out positivity or whatever words you want to use. 69 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:24,280 Breathe in dark, breathe out light, that kind of thing. 70 00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:27,800 I like that practice. I think it's a good practice. 71 00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:30,720 It's a good, helpful practice, especially if you're already 72 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:33,520 practicing a lot of loving kindness meditation because it 73 00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:36,040 has a little bit of a different flavor to it. 74 00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:40,000 But I also think, and this is not something that's taught in 75 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:43,120 lozong training, I also think that it has that. 76 00:04:43,120 --> 00:04:47,440 It's a really good reminder on other levels about balance and 77 00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:51,720 about the the middle path and about how we navigate through 78 00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:54,240 the world. And what I mean is that as 79 00:04:54,240 --> 00:04:57,960 people, we all have a tendency to give and take with other 80 00:04:57,960 --> 00:05:00,080 people, with people, places and things, right? 81 00:05:00,280 --> 00:05:04,200 We bring things to a place. We are words, thoughts, deeds, 82 00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:07,360 and we take things from other people and from other places. 83 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:12,240 It not necessarily objects, but experiences or emotions or ideas 84 00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:15,320 or something like this. And to me, this idea of 85 00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:20,840 balancing taking and sending, giving and taking, is to think 86 00:05:20,840 --> 00:05:24,280 about what it is that we are putting out into the world and 87 00:05:24,280 --> 00:05:26,640 what it is that we are taking from the world, right? 88 00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:29,320 Because the world is helping to construct us. 89 00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:32,840 And this idea of us being interdependent, who we are, is 90 00:05:32,840 --> 00:05:35,800 the result of all of the experiences that we've had. 91 00:05:36,280 --> 00:05:40,680 So what are those experiences? What are we taking in to kind of 92 00:05:40,760 --> 00:05:45,240 construct who we are and then what are we putting out into the 93 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:47,320 world that helps kind of construct the world in a 94 00:05:47,320 --> 00:05:52,000 particular way? So it's a more abstract way to 95 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:56,000 think about taking and sending, but I think it's also important 96 00:05:56,240 --> 00:06:00,160 and it can ride along with the tonglen meditation because I 97 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:03,080 think that one of the things about tonglen meditation and the 98 00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:06,120 idea is to kind of let go of your ego a little bit. 99 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:09,840 A lot of the Lojang training is a really about getting out of 100 00:06:09,840 --> 00:06:14,160 your own way and to try to detached from our egocentric way 101 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:16,760 of thinking. And a meditation practice like 102 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:19,640 tonglen helps with that because it's not about like I'm trying 103 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:22,600 to feel better. It's about I am being part of 104 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:25,440 the world where there is unhappiness and sadness and I'm 105 00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:28,760 experiencing that and then sending out, you know, goodness 106 00:06:28,760 --> 00:06:31,040 and light and peacefulness or whatever else. 107 00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:35,560 And that is an important part to remember, that kind of taking 108 00:06:35,560 --> 00:06:40,640 and sending both in like a figurative sense, but also 109 00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:43,960 thinking about how we are interacting in the world and 110 00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:47,200 what we are taking and sending to the world, to the people that 111 00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:51,280 we love, to our environment, to our communities, all of that. 112 00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:56,680 So I think it's a good physical way to embody a kind of 113 00:06:56,680 --> 00:07:00,440 conceptual way of being. So it's a this meditation 114 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:04,640 practice can be a helpful way to practice being more of being 115 00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:08,560 less self-centered and trying to be more connected in a balanced 116 00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:10,720 sort of way. Anyway, I'm going to turn it 117 00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:13,960 over to you because I'd like to hear your comments, questions. 118 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:17,760 If you have ever practiced tonglen, then I'd like to hear 119 00:07:17,760 --> 00:07:20,800 about what your experience was. If you have questions about 120 00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:23,400 tonglen as a meditation, you know, feel free to raise that. 121 00:07:23,720 --> 00:07:28,000 But otherwise I, I would also like to touch on this, the, the 122 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:32,440 concept of giving and taking in a more abstract sense. 123 00:07:32,440 --> 00:07:36,320 So not just about the meditative practice, but about what we put 124 00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:39,720 into and take from the world, put into ourselves and put into 125 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:41,760 the world. So I'm going to turn that over 126 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:43,880 to you. When you speak, please start 127 00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:46,120 with your name so we can get to know you now. 128 00:07:46,120 --> 00:07:51,520 This time is yours. Could you read the initial 129 00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:53,720 state? The initial statement I can. 130 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:56,320 Yes, sending and taking should be practiced. 131 00:07:56,320 --> 00:08:00,560 Alternately, these two should ride the breaths, so practice 132 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:07,960 pongling. So what all stuff you just said 133 00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:14,720 didn't didn't resonate with the initial like, oh, cake in the 134 00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:17,640 gut. I got let's stick in the initial 135 00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:19,200 cake. And the guy that I got from the 136 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:28,200 statement was was more aligned with listening in action with I 137 00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:33,840 need to alternate the my absorption of what is the need 138 00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:37,280 of the moment. What is need of person that I am 139 00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:44,360 talking to with and act and I should not withdraw and not act 140 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:49,600 and just listen or absorb or even detach, but I need to 141 00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:56,080 intake act. I don't know if Tomlin is except 142 00:08:56,080 --> 00:08:59,840 I have practiced toggling through another group. 143 00:09:00,240 --> 00:09:08,840 So and I found that that was largely like intended on 144 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:17,040 anchoring you in the moment with, you know, the traumas and 145 00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:19,480 the paid people were experiencing grounding and 146 00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:23,320 finding that middle space up like it's OK. 147 00:09:23,840 --> 00:09:28,880 And so I suppose that that does apply. 148 00:09:28,880 --> 00:09:31,840 But my initial thought they heard that stay was like a 149 00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:35,800 little bit and punch in the gut like, oh, looking at my my wife 150 00:09:35,920 --> 00:09:41,560 was got this problem work that has nothing to do with us or 151 00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:45,040 anything that I do. And she's talking about this 152 00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:48,360 problem trying to work it out. But like, I don't understand it 153 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:54,920 like quarter what you're saying. And so I was largely just 154 00:09:54,920 --> 00:09:59,840 listening. And then Marvel was like a 155 00:09:59,840 --> 00:10:02,680 Marshall's port because she's struggling through a province. 156 00:10:03,560 --> 00:10:07,800 The problem I can't help her and like that just to me illustrates 157 00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:16,080 the like what is the inhalation of no and like she's talking for 158 00:10:16,360 --> 00:10:20,080 like 20 minutes or something, but I can't do anything to hell. 159 00:10:20,560 --> 00:10:26,920 Do I need to shake the conversation with you lost me 160 00:10:27,040 --> 00:10:30,360 and I don't know how to help with this problem. 161 00:10:30,760 --> 00:10:35,080 I understand dementing try most check out. 162 00:10:38,400 --> 00:10:41,440 So I mean, and that's where I found that statement to really 163 00:10:41,560 --> 00:10:48,960 resonate me so. I'm married, this serves. 164 00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:52,600 This is just what I thought of when you're telling that story 165 00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:56,520 about your wife. My boss used to say 2 heads are 166 00:10:56,520 --> 00:11:02,360 better than one, even if one is a cabbage, so just being there 167 00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:06,040 and listening is probably fantastic. 168 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:09,080 That's the action. That that is the exhalation 169 00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:10,760 itself. That's good. 170 00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:14,240 I actually when you were talking, I think I took it a 171 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:17,840 little bit of a different way because, you know, in Buddhism 172 00:11:17,840 --> 00:11:21,600 and meditation, there's all a big discussion between doing and 173 00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:23,840 being. So one of the challenges is that 174 00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:27,400 our culture, we are doing culture where the expectation is 175 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:31,280 like, act, do something, engage in something, be always doing. 176 00:11:31,480 --> 00:11:34,120 And so a lot of meditation, especially in the West, is like, 177 00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:36,080 but why don't you practice being? 178 00:11:36,080 --> 00:11:37,640 Why don't you just sit with something? 179 00:11:37,640 --> 00:11:40,600 Why don't you just listen? Why don't you just experience 180 00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:43,160 it? And I think that figuring out 181 00:11:43,160 --> 00:11:45,520 the balance, so it's kind of in the same way, like what is the 182 00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:49,120 balance between like just being, I'm just here having this 183 00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:52,720 experience and then doing something And it's kind of hard 184 00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:54,440 to tell. And especially I think in 185 00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:58,200 relationships, when do I just sit with you while you're having 186 00:11:58,200 --> 00:12:00,560 a problem? And when do I need to take 187 00:12:00,560 --> 00:12:03,480 action to help you solve that problem or something like this? 188 00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:08,280 And a lot of us are are kind of trained to like the that to 189 00:12:08,280 --> 00:12:11,080 beat, to solve a problem, like we're solving a problem solving 190 00:12:11,080 --> 00:12:13,240 culture, engage in action and do things. 191 00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:17,600 So the being for many of us, the being part is more difficult. 192 00:12:17,720 --> 00:12:21,880 It's harder to just sit and just be, especially if somebody that 193 00:12:21,880 --> 00:12:24,720 you care about is struggling. It's hard to just sit. 194 00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:27,600 I'm just I'm just sitting with your difficulty. 195 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:31,440 And that is one way that I find tonglen to be helpful because if 196 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:35,240 I have the practice of just sitting with difficulty, whether 197 00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:38,240 it's difficulty that I generate or difficulty that I imagined in 198 00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:41,200 the world, it helps me when somebody that I care about is 199 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:43,520 having difficulty. And I don't just automatically 200 00:12:43,520 --> 00:12:47,440 rush into problem solving. I try to just sit and say, like, 201 00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:50,480 that's really difficult while you're you're really going 202 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:52,520 through something like I can just sit with that. 203 00:12:52,520 --> 00:12:56,040 And part of that is because I've practiced just sitting with 204 00:12:56,040 --> 00:12:58,960 things that are difficult through the tonglen practice. 205 00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:02,000 So it's not exactly what you were talking about because I 206 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:05,240 think there was more of like listening is an action kind of a 207 00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:07,200 thing. But I also heard a little bit of 208 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:10,920 a tension between should you just be in the space with 209 00:13:10,920 --> 00:13:14,280 somebody who is having a difficult time or should you try 210 00:13:14,280 --> 00:13:17,160 to do something about the difficulty that that person is 211 00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:19,040 happening having? And I think that fits really 212 00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:19,960 well with what we're talking about. 213 00:13:21,440 --> 00:13:24,680 Also that tendency we all have to be like, it's my trying to 214 00:13:24,680 --> 00:13:30,400 talk and that's the initial thing that I have a like knowing 215 00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:33,000 what it's not. But the the the stay there. 216 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:34,800 That's why I can't be the cut because it's like. 217 00:13:37,040 --> 00:13:40,360 Breathing in and out, talking, See, we caught play receiving 218 00:13:40,360 --> 00:13:42,200 and acting. Like it just feels like there 219 00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:47,960 should be more resting and less acting. 220 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:50,960 And that balance is kind of saying like, no, you also have 221 00:13:50,960 --> 00:13:54,560 to act, which is counterintuitive to me for what 222 00:13:54,560 --> 00:13:57,200 you're saying. Like we tend to do that enough, 223 00:13:57,200 --> 00:14:01,720 but maybe that's what. Part of it is the balance, 224 00:14:01,720 --> 00:14:03,640 right? Like if you are already a doer 225 00:14:03,640 --> 00:14:06,200 and you are heavy on problem solving, then probably you need 226 00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:09,400 to learn more into just being and sitting with things. 227 00:14:09,680 --> 00:14:14,120 If you are not like an action oriented person, problem solving 228 00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:16,720 and and you do a lot of like sitting with things and maybe 229 00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:19,360 you should engage more in the active action side. 230 00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:23,800 So yes. What are you asking of us to do? 231 00:14:24,160 --> 00:14:29,000 I heard you ask us to take on the world problems instead of in 232 00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:34,720 our lap and then get a goodness. You're asking, you're asking us 233 00:14:34,760 --> 00:14:36,920 to do that one right? Well, this is, I mean, that's 234 00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:39,960 the idea behind the tonglen meditation. 235 00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:43,040 So it's not like a homework assignment, but. 236 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:48,120 We are pragmatic Buddhists and so I would like to mesh the two 237 00:14:48,120 --> 00:14:50,920 together. That's and but unless you're 238 00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:57,200 asking me to do just long gender homeland meditation, the other 239 00:14:57,520 --> 00:15:03,440 Lausanne, Mojon, Lojon. OK, so for today you want us to 240 00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:05,600 just do Lojon? Well, yeah. 241 00:15:05,880 --> 00:15:07,520 No, no, no, no. No. 242 00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:09,120 Then I asked something to say. Go. 243 00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:14,760 OK, OK. So I got the blend, which is the 244 00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:20,080 three questions when I had sitting with someone which could 245 00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:25,880 be the world problems and I'm uncertain what to do. 246 00:15:25,880 --> 00:15:28,240 So I had three questions that guide me. 247 00:15:28,760 --> 00:15:33,080 They are is it true because Danielle says to ask Bell all 248 00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:38,200 the time. Secondly, is it necessary, you 249 00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:42,920 know, to get involved, counteract or take action? 250 00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:49,600 And thirdly, is it kite and it and those are just filters. 251 00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:52,400 It's not like you have to get all three yeses. 252 00:15:54,840 --> 00:15:58,800 So if I'm with my AD mother and she's telling the story that 253 00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:04,520 really never happened, do I stop her with kindness? 254 00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:13,200 That thing, it's not necessary, so I just let it go or let it 255 00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:15,040 go. You're just there for them. 256 00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:20,120 Or if I'm in a folk and I don't know what's wrong, but 257 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:26,520 something's not right and I'm disturbed, I can ask those three 258 00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:31,560 questions during meditation. Is it true? 259 00:16:31,560 --> 00:16:37,640 And I try to get in touch with what my body is trying to tell 260 00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:41,000 me. And then if I get in touch with 261 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:46,560 that, that I'm all tense about, let's say a schedule scheduling 262 00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:50,920 problem, then miss necessary. Do I need to do something about 263 00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:57,280 it or just let everything go clap or and so the necessary is 264 00:16:57,280 --> 00:17:04,960 like what action should I take an action and that if I decide I 265 00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:11,880 should take an action or something could be said, is it 266 00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:18,319 copied? So I always want to wrap my help 267 00:17:18,599 --> 00:17:21,319 as certain word. It might just be acknowledging 268 00:17:21,839 --> 00:17:27,079 someone's pain or hit you or something to do it kindness. 269 00:17:28,560 --> 00:17:31,240 So that's kind of like a mesh. But if I'm supposed to be taking 270 00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:33,600 on the world problems, then I'm not allowed to. 271 00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:40,280 I don't need to talk. That is true. 272 00:17:40,360 --> 00:17:43,080 Yeah, Yeah, Yeah. I mean, it's, it's a sort of a 273 00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:45,640 visualization kind of thing, like sitting with other 274 00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:46,920 problems. Yeah. 275 00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:50,000 So you can do both. And that is, I mean, actually 276 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:52,840 those three questions that typically comes up when we talk 277 00:17:52,840 --> 00:17:57,520 about skillful speech in part of as part of the eightfold path, 278 00:17:57,520 --> 00:18:01,360 kind of asking yourself like is this, is it accurate, this thing 279 00:18:01,360 --> 00:18:03,840 that you're going to say, is it necessary? 280 00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:06,400 Is it helpful or kind or what they're saying? 281 00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:09,240 Of course, what they're saying too, but it's a good, I mean, I 282 00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:11,640 like the way that you framed it. It doesn't have to be about what 283 00:18:11,640 --> 00:18:13,920 you're saying. It can be about what you're 284 00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:17,200 thinking or seeing or feeling or considering putting out in the 285 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:19,640 world. So I think that that is a good. 286 00:18:20,120 --> 00:18:25,200 Well, we'll always say made the fruits of our practice extent. 287 00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:30,760 So in your case, Arie, you're listening to a woman who's part 288 00:18:30,760 --> 00:18:40,160 of another word by you giving her and ease, she can face those 289 00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:44,360 people at ease. So we're all connected and 290 00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:51,480 important to do it. So that's our pragmatic 291 00:18:54,280 --> 00:18:58,040 principles in in play. Absolutely. 292 00:19:00,120 --> 00:19:11,840 Gary Olden So that concept of building up enough of a grounded 293 00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:20,320 state and awareness to be able to internalize some of the pain 294 00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:24,920 and suffering or the observation of the state of the world and 295 00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:29,160 not be overwhelmed by it, I think is something I've been 296 00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:33,920 striving for when I observe what's going on in the world. 297 00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:37,200 It's very overwhelming for me at times. 298 00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:41,080 So as as it is, I'm sure for countless other people. 299 00:19:41,080 --> 00:19:47,160 So one way is just to try to reject what's happening, go into 300 00:19:47,840 --> 00:19:54,320 a state of internalizing or state of entertaining to get 301 00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:59,120 away or distract the mind or distract where I am from those 302 00:19:59,120 --> 00:20:00,920 things. But I feel like that's the state 303 00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:07,000 of rejection from reality. And so I think the important 304 00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:09,800 thing for me, what I've been trying to focus on is to get 305 00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:17,520 well balanced in a state from what meditation hopefully is 306 00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:21,840 helping me with is just being able to absorb war in general 307 00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:24,600 without having it change my state of. 308 00:20:25,120 --> 00:20:32,160 Emotion or my emotional state or change my, my overreactions or 309 00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:43,640 to feel like I'm able to take on more of that realization and 310 00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:47,160 hopefully react to it in positive ways. 311 00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:54,160 So, yeah. And then the, the idea that we 312 00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:59,400 are a combination of the experiences we have or some to 313 00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:06,120 some degree, I want to try to build on and take my own 314 00:21:06,120 --> 00:21:10,280 initiative to create new experiences that then will 315 00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:16,640 evolve my own way of thinking and evolve my own state of being 316 00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:24,440 and evolve my my internal growth to become war more capable and 317 00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:33,600 more mature and more able to just offer more to the world. 318 00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:38,680 So yeah, I can. I can Appreciate, appreciate. 319 00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:46,360 And I think tonglen is part of the point of tonglen is to 320 00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:49,680 increase our tolerance for discomfort, right? 321 00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:52,640 So, and that's part of what meditation practice is. 322 00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:55,560 Also, I tend to think of meditation in general about 323 00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:59,200 increasing my tolerance for uncertainty or, you know, 324 00:21:59,960 --> 00:22:03,640 ambiguity. And tonglen helps with me in the 325 00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:06,400 same sort of way with trying to increase our capacity for 326 00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:09,680 discomfort. And so in that sense, and this 327 00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:12,200 is the, the more traditional tonglen, if you take on 328 00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:16,880 discomfort and then feel it, the challenge to your point, the 329 00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:22,040 challenge is to not allow it to disturb our equilibrium to our 330 00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:24,560 equanimity. And, and that's where if you 331 00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:27,760 practice that enough, like bringing in some pain and 332 00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:32,520 suffering and maintaining your equanimity, then it expands your 333 00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:35,160 capacity for sitting with more difficulty. 334 00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:39,320 And that can be a good practice because sometimes in life, major 335 00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:42,760 difficulties happen and we don't have a wide tolerance for 336 00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:45,320 sitting with difficulty. And so that's what we're trying 337 00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:48,320 to do is to just to expand our capacity to give ourselves a 338 00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:51,920 moment, not that we should be, you know, putting ourselves in 339 00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:55,240 harm's way regularly and just saying like, oh, I feel 340 00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:56,680 terrible. And I guess that's just the way 341 00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:59,800 that life is. But if we can expand our 342 00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:02,920 tolerance for sitting in discomfort, that can give us 343 00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:05,880 enough space to step back and say, like, what is appropriate 344 00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:08,480 for me to do now? Is it, should I just sit with 345 00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:12,480 this stuff discomfort or should I move out of the way and not be 346 00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:15,360 discomforted anymore? And we don't always know that 347 00:23:15,360 --> 00:23:16,680 right? When we're when we're in the 348 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:20,440 midst of discomfort, we're often really reactive and it doesn't 349 00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:23,920 give us an opportunity to take that step back to kind of be 350 00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:27,400 more intentional about what our actions might or might not be. 351 00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:31,840 So that is part of this practice is about can you learn to expand 352 00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:35,000 your capacity for sitting with discomfort, which happens 353 00:23:35,120 --> 00:23:37,640 anyway. And when we sit in zazen, it's 354 00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:41,080 often uncomfortable. We are expanding our capacity to 355 00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:44,280 sit with discomfort. But this is makes it more of a 356 00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:47,480 like an intentional visualization process where 357 00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:51,320 we're being explicit about sitting with the discomfort and 358 00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:54,640 then kind of navigating through it or or increasing our 359 00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:58,280 tolerance for to give us enough space to step back from the 360 00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:00,760 discomfort. Would that be through a state of 361 00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:03,000 observation or would it be any thought? 362 00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:07,240 Would it be observation or would it be thought? 363 00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:10,040 Did you say, well, it kind of depends, It's a little bit of 364 00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:12,400 all of them. It's observation, it's thought, 365 00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:16,520 it's sensations. So and different people can are 366 00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:18,240 more in touch with different parts of that. 367 00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:22,880 So it could be just observing like what is coming up for you 368 00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:26,360 while you are having these thoughts about taking in 369 00:24:26,360 --> 00:24:29,720 suffering and sitting with it and putting out not suffering. 370 00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:32,480 It could be just an intellectual process. 371 00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:35,200 And this is especially true. There are some people who cannot 372 00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:38,840 visualize, you know that well. So it is like a narrative. 373 00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:42,000 And for that, like thinking about the words of like, what is 374 00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:45,640 it like to sit with discomfort and then to kind of put out in 375 00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:49,000 the world more comfort? And then for other people, it's 376 00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:50,360 about how does it feel in the body? 377 00:24:50,360 --> 00:24:53,880 So if you imagine yourself taking on discomfort, what does 378 00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:56,360 that feel like in your body? And if you imagine yourself 379 00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:59,680 putting out comfort, what does that feel like in your body? 380 00:24:59,880 --> 00:25:02,960 So it could be that it could also be emotional feelings. 381 00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:08,400 What does it feel emotionally to to take in sadness or pain or 382 00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:11,760 discomfort and put out goodness or light or comfort? 383 00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:15,160 It could be any of those, and those are all different forms of 384 00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:25,310 the same sort of practice. Nathan Ukulele only or nothing 385 00:25:25,390 --> 00:25:28,190 actually, I already know Gary from the this site. 386 00:25:29,990 --> 00:25:35,630 I think the thing that yeah, mine's sure I've done loving 387 00:25:35,630 --> 00:25:41,910 kindness meditations before. I haven't done under one, but 388 00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:48,240 usually when I've done welding countless meditations, I focus 389 00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:51,040 on metaphor. I've never actually thought 390 00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:57,120 about what the metaphor is referring to, which is I guess 391 00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:03,040 if you if you don't think that there's, if you don't, if you if 392 00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:05,760 you're not like a duelist, you're just am honest to me. 393 00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:11,520 Think of all there is is physical reality like I am the 394 00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:14,720 loving kindness that's going out into the world and really 395 00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:18,720 meditation is shaping me so that I can go out. 396 00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:21,800 Yeah, that's it. Yeah. 397 00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:26,040 I mean, I think that is it's helpful how we approach 398 00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:28,920 meditation, all the meditations, loving kindness or tonglen or 399 00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:34,240 even zazen and figuring out what is the best frame for us or for 400 00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:37,640 the lesson to land. Because all kinds of meditation 401 00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:43,040 are brain training and how you learn can vary, right? 402 00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:44,200 We all have kind of different ways. 403 00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:48,280 So if it's helpful to have a visualization about like you 404 00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:50,520 being part of the universe, that's helpful. 405 00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:54,440 If if it's helpful for you to think about the the phrases or 406 00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:57,480 the words, maybe that's helpful. If it's helpful to think about 407 00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:00,880 the physiological sensation, maybe that's helpful, but it can 408 00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:03,000 be, it can be a lot of different things for a lot of different 409 00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:05,040 people. So part of our, all of us are 410 00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:10,040 our practices figuring out what helps to make the lesson land. 411 00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:13,480 So in this case, the lesson about like giving and taking, 412 00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:17,920 sending and receiving, how what would it take to get that lesson 413 00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:21,520 for House to be more balanced and to increase our tolerance 414 00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:25,720 for discomfort and to be in communion with each other and 415 00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:28,840 the rest of the world? What would it take to learn that 416 00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:30,840 lesson? That's all what Buddhism is 417 00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:33,160 trying to tell us. What will it take to learn that 418 00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:35,240 lesson? And sometimes meditative 419 00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:39,800 techniques, visualizations, thought experiments can help. 420 00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:43,000 Sometimes they can't because it depends on how it's going to 421 00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:50,760 land for you. I'm Steven. 422 00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:55,520 I think for me that when I listened to everything and this, 423 00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:59,880 I think the thing that's like really resonating with me right 424 00:27:59,880 --> 00:28:04,640 now is sitting with discomfort. That statement is kind of just 425 00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:09,600 stayed in my brain to her. But for me, the way that that is 426 00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:18,480 showing up is I've been married for 18 years, I got 3 kids and 427 00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:20,240 my daughter's about to go to college. 428 00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:27,440 We lived kind of in like car centered suburban, you know, 429 00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:31,880 purple politically area. And there's a lot of like 430 00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:36,320 concentric circles of discomfort and not for me right now that 431 00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:38,160 I'm noticing. So I like, you know, there's, 432 00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:41,440 there's all the there's all the scripts that you bring from your 433 00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:44,560 own upbringing and your own, you know, view of the world and 434 00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:47,160 social circle. Then there's the scripts that 435 00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:49,560 your partner and you know, the people you're next what they're 436 00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:51,080 bringing. And there's the scripts that 437 00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:54,760 your broader community are bringing to the table and all 438 00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:58,800 those interacts and intersect in complex ways, you know, and 439 00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:02,720 there's like socioeconomics and your cultural background and all 440 00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:06,520 those things. And So what I think about when I 441 00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:11,360 hear sitting with discomfort is, you know, sun, you know, some 442 00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:15,000 conflict that perhaps me and my wife are attempting to work 443 00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:19,440 through. There are all these other 444 00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:24,040 background things happening that come up during meditation when I 445 00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:27,080 sit and think about sitting with discomfort, you know, it's not 446 00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:30,680 there's the, the primary relationship and the the good 447 00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:33,800 threads that are there and the background tensions and things 448 00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:36,040 like that. But then there's also those 449 00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:39,120 concentric circles of things unrelated to her that are 450 00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:42,480 happening over here in this domain and my community and 451 00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:45,720 frustrations about something with my children's school over 452 00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:48,520 here. And then, you know, and deeper 453 00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:50,680 existential frustration with American culture. 454 00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:53,480 And, you know, like all those kind of stuff that interplays. 455 00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:57,440 And the tendency, like you said, is to want to solve it. 456 00:29:57,600 --> 00:29:59,560 You know what, to do something about it. 457 00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:04,760 But if you are unable to sit with discomfort, then you're 458 00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:10,280 doing will be from ego and impulsiveness and all these sort 459 00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:14,520 of things rather than consideration to be able to sit 460 00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:20,200 with discomfort for that and think and feel and and be so 461 00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:23,360 that the most appropriate action actually comes up. 462 00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:25,240 And I don't do a great job with that. 463 00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:28,720 So that I think is what comes up as I listen to this. 464 00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:35,800 We described life so well. I'm in the thick of it. 465 00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:39,280 Yeah. And thank you because aren't we 466 00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:41,840 all right. And I think that that's, that's 467 00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:45,560 one of the reasons that many of us came to meditation in the 1st 468 00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:48,080 place because the discomfort was acute. 469 00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:52,000 And often we were given a recommendation from someone that 470 00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:55,800 said meditation can health. And, and so I think on some 471 00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:59,560 level, many people who find meditation in the West are 472 00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:01,960 really aware of the idea of discomfort. 473 00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:04,800 But I agree with you that they don't realize that part of what 474 00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:08,920 the meditation training is to expand our ability to sit with 475 00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:12,520 that long enough to step back and, and actually be intentional 476 00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:16,000 about, do I try to solve this? Do I just sit with this, you 477 00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:18,400 know, instead of being reactive to it? 478 00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:22,480 And but it's difficult. It's difficult because those 479 00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:26,080 reactions just come up. It's and that's we're trying to 480 00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:30,720 increase our capacity to not be reactive to the discomfort to 481 00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:34,560 whatever it is. I feel like our brains are also 482 00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:38,680 really good at each layer that you peel back during meditation 483 00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:42,320 of like, oh, I see that, you know, my ego is coming in, you 484 00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:44,680 know, in this place. Oh, cool, I didn't realize like 485 00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:48,520 another fully my ego coming out. It's like you peel back these 486 00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:51,600 layers and we start to think that you're, you know, beginning 487 00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:53,720 to act more loving. And in some ways you are. 488 00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:57,640 But then you also discover how deep the ego goes and how many 489 00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:02,320 tendrils it gets into the way that we react to people and the 490 00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:05,000 things that we think are right action in that moment, you know? 491 00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:08,520 Absolutely. It's it's why this is a 492 00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:10,880 practice, because it does take practice. 493 00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:14,560 I mean, we have practiced for our whole lives in a different 494 00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:18,560 way and now we're like, OK, so now I've logged some meditation 495 00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:21,480 hours. It should be fine now and it 496 00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:23,200 takes, you're right, it takes a lot of time. 497 00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:26,640 And, and this is one of the reasons why I what I appreciate 498 00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:30,600 about Buddhism and why I always focus on the idea of sitting 499 00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:34,560 with discomfort, because that isn't discomforting statement 500 00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:36,640 that you just made, right? Like you practice a lot and 501 00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:39,440 you're peeling away the layers of, of the ego and you're like, 502 00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:42,400 Hey, I'm letting go of my ego and all of a sudden you're like, 503 00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:47,080 I am not letting go of my ego. And that's uncomfortable, right? 504 00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:49,840 And so it often just a reaction to that, where you when, 505 00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:52,560 especially when you think that you're making progress and 506 00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:54,920 you're like, I am getting more grounded. 507 00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:56,960 I'm more able to sit with all of this. 508 00:32:56,960 --> 00:32:59,840 And you then you realize that you're not in this instance or 509 00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:03,520 that instance or whatever else. It can be really frustrating and 510 00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:07,720 it can make it harder to, to continue with the practice. 511 00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:11,640 So it's helpful for me to to recognize like, Oh, I'm 512 00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:14,920 uncomfortable with the thought that I'm a bad Buddhist and I 513 00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:18,280 just should sit with that for a minute and just be like, hey, 514 00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:21,000 that's the thing that's that's happening and engage in some 515 00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:22,800 more practice or whatever it is. You know what I mean? 516 00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:26,360 So it's a good reminder. And that's why we have these 517 00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:29,920 discussions, because sometimes we need some explicit reminding. 518 00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:39,720 Well, it seems like the discomfort could be through this 519 00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:46,320 practice seen through multiple ways and then the scaling of it, 520 00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:53,440 how there's a scaling effect there to the closest things to 521 00:33:53,440 --> 00:34:00,080 our daily lives to then maybe it goes outside to to to the wider 522 00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:03,000 group of friends or, or a little wider. 523 00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:05,480 And then you could go, you know, when you're going out to, OK, 524 00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:09,360 what's happening on a little wider scale of the county or 525 00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:12,920 what's happening to the state level or the country level or 526 00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:17,199 the world level, Then you know how each of those is going to 527 00:34:17,199 --> 00:34:22,760 have its own sets of complications and difficulties 528 00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:27,120 to observe and maybe have some discomfort about. 529 00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:32,679 And then understand how your own reactions might be just 530 00:34:32,679 --> 00:34:38,719 observing those discomforts and becoming more aware of reality, 531 00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:44,719 really seeing all the all the realities around you and a 532 00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:48,639 greater sense and just seeing with all that reality and 533 00:34:48,639 --> 00:34:52,719 understanding it better. And then maybe coming out of 534 00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:59,920 that with with more action to how you could react in a greater 535 00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:04,200 with more of all of that concentration going into that 536 00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:07,680 hopefully come out with with almost almost like in a planning 537 00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:11,120 state that will ultimately come out of that with something, 538 00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:15,800 something to to do an action or actions take out of that. 539 00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:20,120 That's interesting. I do think, I mean I have had 540 00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:23,640 experience of getting completely overwhelmed by some of these 541 00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:26,160 concepts and I think that that is something for us to be 542 00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:29,680 mindful of because all of these are really good practices. 543 00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:33,440 So the idea like, OK, we need to increase our comfort with 544 00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:37,840 discomfort. And so then we sit in more 545 00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:41,240 discomfort. And sometimes, and I have had 546 00:35:41,240 --> 00:35:44,480 this tendency and, and in case any of you do, I have sometimes 547 00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:47,880 used Buddhism as a weapon against myself to say like, you 548 00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:49,440 need to sit with more discomfort. 549 00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:51,880 And I'm like, but I don't like it feels bad. 550 00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:54,680 You need to sit with more discomfort, be more 551 00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:57,280 uncomfortable. And it's not that that's a bad 552 00:35:57,280 --> 00:35:59,080 thing, but it's really, I mean it. 553 00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:02,480 That is not a space of learning. So I think it's important also 554 00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:06,400 to recognize that we learn best when we are a little 555 00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:08,600 uncomfortable because it's making us pay attention. 556 00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:10,200 It's something that we didn't know before. 557 00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:13,440 But if you get too uncomfortable and you're completely 558 00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:16,400 overwhelmed, you're not learning anything new, it's not helping 559 00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:19,080 you. So if it's helpful, right, if 560 00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:22,240 you are tend to be kind of cut off from the world or you are 561 00:36:22,240 --> 00:36:25,600 trying to avoid things discomfort so much that you are 562 00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:28,920 completely disengaged with it, then it can be really helpful to 563 00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:31,440 say, OK, I'm going to invite intentionally invite in this 564 00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:36,400 idea of discomfort, but monitor yourself and recognize when it's 565 00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:39,560 now gone beyond the level, like it's no longer about I'm 566 00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:42,760 learning how to tolerate discomfort and it is now like I 567 00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:46,320 am just hurting myself. So trying to figure out that 568 00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:49,000 kind of a balance. And because if you can do that 569 00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:52,560 in smaller steps, like, OK, I am, I'm kind of pushing myself 570 00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:55,360 out of my comfort zone like a little bit here. 571 00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:57,720 And then I'm going to push it out a little bit more and push. 572 00:36:57,720 --> 00:37:00,080 That's how you expand, right? Slowly pushing out. 573 00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:04,920 If you try to do it all at once and try to like jump way into 574 00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:08,880 the deep end of discomfort, it's probably going to make it worse 575 00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:11,560 and then you're going to have to come back even further and then 576 00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:13,160 you haven't made quite as much progress. 577 00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:17,200 You're not actually expanding your ability to be sit in 578 00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:20,080 discomfort. So yes, I think it is a good 579 00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:23,080 idea for us to expand our awareness and to think about 580 00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:26,800 discomfort in larger sort of concentric circles and try to 581 00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:30,160 imagine the world as it is a little bit more. 582 00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:34,160 But to recognize it when it gets to that point where now it's too 583 00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:38,840 overwhelming to think about this much discomfort, come back to 584 00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:41,720 something that is more manageable and sit with that for 585 00:37:41,720 --> 00:37:44,640 a little while and then try again to expand out, right? 586 00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:47,280 Because we are, we're trying to expand our awareness. 587 00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:49,960 That's the whole point of sitting in Zazen is to become 588 00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:55,040 increasingly more aware of the world as it is easier said than 589 00:37:55,040 --> 00:38:03,560 done. Because there's that impermanent 590 00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:07,680 thing, you think you have it all figured out, but then community 591 00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:09,680 groups change their goals. Or. 592 00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:12,880 Age change, so then you're back to. 593 00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:17,920 Elections happen. Yeah. 594 00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:23,560 So you have to allow that just for today, just for this moment, 595 00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:28,920 they're. OK, yeah, I think 'cause that's 596 00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:31,480 the other part of it, right? The, the especially when it gets 597 00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:34,400 overwhelming about the discomfort or the unpleasantness 598 00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:37,040 or the changing nature of life. When that becomes too 599 00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:40,440 overwhelming, it can also be really helpful to remind 600 00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:43,800 yourself or to invite in some of the joy and the peacefulness and 601 00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:45,920 the compassion. And, and this is where something 602 00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:49,280 like loving kindness training might be helpful or a gratitude 603 00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:52,440 practice might be helpful because you can go too far. 604 00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:55,160 You can go too far and like, I just want to be in the world 605 00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:56,880 that it is. And then you're like, but the 606 00:38:56,880 --> 00:39:00,520 world sucks right now. So maybe you should also 607 00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:04,200 remember that even though things are difficult and you're sitting 608 00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:07,600 with discomfort, there are moments of joy, there's moments 609 00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:10,400 of peace, there's moments of contentment. 610 00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:14,360 And it can be really helpful to invite those in also. 611 00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:18,080 So this is part of what I was saying, that we can go too far 612 00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:21,520 with inviting in discomfort. We should remember also to 613 00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:25,040 invite in, you know, joy and peacefulness and contentment. 614 00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:30,880 And then I, I guess it's also interesting the, the exhale, and 615 00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:34,440 I don't know if I, if I heard that right, but you're exhaling 616 00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:40,600 joy or you're exhaling love, then that would be in a sense 617 00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:42,960 that's inside of you. So you're, you're releasing 618 00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:44,960 that. And in a sense, I guess you 619 00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:47,800 could, you could visualize that as being a way to help the 620 00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:51,200 world. That is kind of part of the 621 00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:53,960 point of Tonglan. The idea is that if you bring 622 00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:57,200 and breathe in the unpleasantness and then you're 623 00:39:57,200 --> 00:40:00,400 breathing out the pleasantness, you also can have an experience 624 00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:02,720 of pleasantness as you are breathing it out. 625 00:40:03,080 --> 00:40:05,720 And, you know, visualizing putting that out in the world, 626 00:40:05,720 --> 00:40:08,120 which is kind of, I think, didn't you bring this up, that 627 00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:10,680 the fruit of our practice extends to all living being. 628 00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:14,240 That's the sort of idea that what we want is like we want to 629 00:40:14,240 --> 00:40:18,360 put more kind of light and joy and contentment out into the 630 00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:22,000 world so that the world becomes a more joyful and contented 631 00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:24,760 place. And sometimes we can do that, 632 00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:28,320 like just with our breath because if it can get us more, 633 00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:32,280 you know, grounded or settled or in this moment the way that it 634 00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:35,600 is, then the way we interact in the world is going to be more 635 00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:38,840 pleasant to other people. And that can kind of create this 636 00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:42,520 sort of a ripple effect. So yeah. 637 00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:49,840 Might help prepare us. Also keep you like even as a 638 00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:52,320 visualization. Obviously the breath of cells 639 00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:55,480 isn't changing the world, but if we visualize that, I can see how 640 00:40:55,480 --> 00:41:00,960 that might help build the action afterwards, you know, or or 641 00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:03,640 strength to build action afterwards. 642 00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:07,320 Yeah, yeah. I mean, like Aaron said, that 643 00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:10,000 this is just another tool. The idea of tonglen is another 644 00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:13,400 tool that you could practice and figure out if it's useful to you 645 00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:16,440 and if it's useful to you in what contexts. 646 00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:20,320 So it's not like tonglen is not one of my primary practices in 647 00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:22,800 loving kindness. My meditation is not one of my 648 00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:27,200 primary meditation practices. I mostly is in zazen, but 649 00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:29,400 sometimes it's just really helpful. 650 00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:33,000 Like I mean, especially if I'm in distress or somebody that I 651 00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:35,880 love is in distress, some of these kinds of visualization 652 00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:39,160 practices can be really helpful in that in that moment. 653 00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:43,640 So put it as a tool in your toolbox and see if it's useful. 654 00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:48,080 There are plenty of tonglen meditation videos out in the 655 00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:50,680 world on in YouTube or an insight timer. 656 00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:54,040 I, I would just say to, to monitor yourself because some of 657 00:41:54,040 --> 00:41:58,880 those, the ones that I have listened to can get too intense 658 00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:03,040 in terms of like taking on the feelings of, of unpleasantness. 659 00:42:03,240 --> 00:42:04,440 And that doesn't really work for me. 660 00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:07,520 That's just why I modified it to like I would sit in my lap, but 661 00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:14,360 you know you best so. So I participate in community 662 00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:20,160 groups, parrot groups, and you know, there's a dark side of 663 00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:24,320 that because I don't agree with the tone lunar work. 664 00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:34,760 But when I do my outcry, I say they belong, Gertie, because 665 00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:37,800 they have their own struggles. Their kids are way different 666 00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:43,160 than my kids ever met them. I know they're different, what 667 00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:50,120 they belong here to and that helps me when a meeting gets out 668 00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:56,560 of Gant and it just gets anger is the main pitching. 669 00:42:57,880 --> 00:43:08,280 I think this belongs here too because I want everyone to sit 670 00:43:08,280 --> 00:43:12,240 with the discomfort that we're all in it together. 671 00:43:12,240 --> 00:43:14,560 We're all parents. We all want the best for our 672 00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:17,360 kids. It's how we get to the end. 673 00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:21,880 The path is different from all of us. 674 00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:30,120 So by having a blow up of craziness, I think this belongs 675 00:43:30,120 --> 00:43:35,000 here to because there's someone in the room that can swing it 676 00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:37,320 back to either put back to the topic. 677 00:43:38,480 --> 00:43:43,360 So the outbreak to me is saying we're all missed hits. 678 00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:47,280 And everyone's experiences are different. 679 00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:49,480 That's LED them to their own world views. 680 00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:52,760 And it's hard to have judgement against people's personal 681 00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:54,640 experiences in their backgrounds. 682 00:43:54,880 --> 00:44:00,040 There's only one truth. There's there's really only one 683 00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:03,000 true reality. I'm not one someone that thinks 684 00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:06,480 there's different truths about the world, but there are 685 00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:10,560 different observation nature. I think person has to those 686 00:44:10,720 --> 00:44:14,000 reality, the real ultimate reality and their background and 687 00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:16,000 their experiences totally shape that. 688 00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:20,560 And it's, it's so easy for, for me and, and probably most of us 689 00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:24,240 to not use the, the, the backgrounds we have and our own 690 00:44:24,240 --> 00:44:28,760 experiences and everything we've gone through and the struggles 691 00:44:28,760 --> 00:44:31,880 of the things that we feel like we figured out over the, over 692 00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:34,760 the time on earth. And then to look at other people 693 00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:36,800 that haven't figured certain things out. 694 00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:38,800 And then I immediately want to question myself. 695 00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:41,760 It's like, OK, maybe I figured that out, but I'm sure I didn't 696 00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:44,640 figure other things out that they have, that they figured 697 00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:48,400 out, You know, so it's a constant evolution of trying to 698 00:44:49,080 --> 00:44:53,160 remove that judgement of other people's personal life 699 00:44:53,160 --> 00:44:57,720 experiences and just trying to understand that they have good 700 00:44:57,720 --> 00:45:00,520 intentions usually. I think that's an important 701 00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:02,120 startup. For. 702 00:45:03,240 --> 00:45:07,640 Most people, I think to you. There's dark side, but they. 703 00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:09,800 Not all people, but most people, hey. 704 00:45:10,040 --> 00:45:13,520 There's disruptors that just like NM key, but they belong 705 00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:16,480 there too. That's part of the sort of 706 00:45:16,480 --> 00:45:20,880 compassion training also is, is expanding our capacity to see 707 00:45:20,880 --> 00:45:22,880 things differently or to acknowledge that different 708 00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:24,240 people have different points of view. 709 00:45:24,600 --> 00:45:28,440 But it's, it's also hopefully gives us enough space to decide 710 00:45:28,440 --> 00:45:30,560 to be intentional about what we do with that. 711 00:45:30,560 --> 00:45:34,240 Because part of the idea of building compassion is not to 712 00:45:34,240 --> 00:45:37,040 say that we forgive everything and everybody's fine and 713 00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:39,640 everybody's, you know, everybody can do whatever they want. 714 00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:43,080 But to say like there are people have different intentions. 715 00:45:43,080 --> 00:45:46,000 And to, to give people the benefit of the doubt and assume 716 00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:49,280 that they have good intentions can give us enough space to see 717 00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:52,120 like, OK, so maybe they have good intentions, maybe they 718 00:45:52,120 --> 00:45:54,880 don't have good intentions, but what are the consequences of 719 00:45:54,880 --> 00:45:57,960 whatever those actions are? And what can I, what should I, 720 00:45:58,040 --> 00:45:59,920 what's an appropriate response to that? 721 00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:03,040 And that they can give us a little bit of space if we, if we 722 00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:08,120 can try to like treat other humans as if they mattered as 723 00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:11,160 much as we do or the people that we care about do, that might 724 00:46:11,160 --> 00:46:15,600 give us enough space to think about how we're going to act 725 00:46:15,600 --> 00:46:19,760 instead of react. And that's the type stuff that 726 00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:22,040 takes practice. Because when somebody is like 727 00:46:23,080 --> 00:46:26,200 doing something that's really irritating, it's very difficult 728 00:46:26,480 --> 00:46:30,680 to be spontaneously skillful if you haven't practiced, like 729 00:46:30,680 --> 00:46:34,640 being compassionate and sitting within meditation along a long 730 00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:38,880 time before. And using those three steps that 731 00:46:39,040 --> 00:46:43,520 Danielle taught. I think to like, what are the 732 00:46:43,520 --> 00:46:50,840 worst humbling things that I think about when I'm talking 733 00:46:50,840 --> 00:46:55,320 with someone else that I'm disagree with is that I reflect 734 00:46:55,320 --> 00:47:00,320 on my own journey. There was no single conversation 735 00:47:00,320 --> 00:47:05,280 ever in the entire journey that was like the turning point in 736 00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:08,920 which my mind changed, right? Like no single conversation did 737 00:47:08,920 --> 00:47:12,440 it. It was this complex, messy mix 738 00:47:12,440 --> 00:47:16,440 of experiences and circumstances and multiple conversations with 739 00:47:16,440 --> 00:47:19,240 different people along the way and happenstance, the lucky 740 00:47:19,240 --> 00:47:24,160 breaks and and then my mind changed as my behaviors change, 741 00:47:24,240 --> 00:47:26,400 right? And so it is very likely that 742 00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:28,280 that's also how other people change. 743 00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:33,320 And so it, it's uncomfortable because it reflects the light 744 00:47:33,320 --> 00:47:36,080 that when I've been some intense conversation, trying to change 745 00:47:36,080 --> 00:47:39,680 someone's mind, that's actually you go because they're most 746 00:47:39,680 --> 00:47:42,480 likely not going to change their mind just because I told them 747 00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:44,160 something. They're going to have their own 748 00:47:44,160 --> 00:47:47,360 set of experiences, right? And when they're ready to see 749 00:47:47,360 --> 00:47:48,800 something a certain way, they will. 750 00:47:49,520 --> 00:47:53,800 And maybe I'm one little bump in a different direction, but like, 751 00:47:53,800 --> 00:47:58,080 I am not, you know, I'm not the catalyst capital. 752 00:47:58,080 --> 00:48:01,000 I like you have this one conversation is not going to be 753 00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:02,560 the thing that changes their mind. 754 00:48:03,200 --> 00:48:07,240 And so then it's freeing because it's like, hey, maybe I can err 755 00:48:07,240 --> 00:48:11,560 on the side of the kind here rather than, you know, proving 756 00:48:11,560 --> 00:48:13,920 that I know this point and trying to force them to change 757 00:48:13,920 --> 00:48:16,240 their mind, which they won't do it, you know? 758 00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:20,520 I think that's another benefit of of this kind of approach, 759 00:48:20,520 --> 00:48:24,120 this approach that tends to be calmer or tends to be sort of 760 00:48:24,120 --> 00:48:28,440 more peaceful, that often times you can have difficult 761 00:48:28,440 --> 00:48:31,640 conversations with people that you couldn't when if you were 762 00:48:31,640 --> 00:48:33,280 emotionally charged about something. 763 00:48:33,600 --> 00:48:36,520 And sometimes that that does contribute like a little bump in 764 00:48:36,520 --> 00:48:40,080 somebody's development and and worldview kind of thing because 765 00:48:40,080 --> 00:48:44,440 it is very difficult to actually like learn and listen when 766 00:48:44,440 --> 00:48:47,080 somebody's shouting at you and telling you you're wrong and 767 00:48:47,080 --> 00:48:48,200 telling you that you're. Bad. 768 00:48:48,800 --> 00:48:50,720 It's it's. Difficult to say, like, oh, I'm 769 00:48:50,720 --> 00:48:53,560 going to change myself because you said that that was wrong and 770 00:48:53,560 --> 00:48:56,200 bad. It is easier if somebody's like, 771 00:48:56,200 --> 00:48:58,200 well, have you thought about it this way or, you know, and have 772 00:48:58,200 --> 00:49:01,880 it a little bit more broad. So, you know, that's a good 773 00:49:02,320 --> 00:49:07,000 point to keep in mind sometimes that like the quiet way is the 774 00:49:07,000 --> 00:49:11,120 and the peaceful way is the better way for us and for other 775 00:49:11,120 --> 00:49:14,240 people. So we're about out of time. 776 00:49:14,320 --> 00:49:16,520 So we'll close. And when we close, we like to 777 00:49:16,520 --> 00:49:20,520 say, may the fruit of our practice extend to all living 778 00:49:20,520 --> 00:49:21,280 beings.