1 00:00:00,440 --> 00:00:02,680 Welcome to the Family Features podcast. 2 00:00:03,000 --> 00:00:05,800 This episode is for any listeners thinking about 3 00:00:05,800 --> 00:00:09,160 adoption. I'm joined by our I Adopt team 4 00:00:09,160 --> 00:00:12,320 leader, Phil Kane, who answers your most frequently asked 5 00:00:12,320 --> 00:00:15,240 questions. We discuss our unique assessment 6 00:00:15,240 --> 00:00:19,280 service, what you can gain from volunteering, the different 7 00:00:19,280 --> 00:00:23,000 types of agency, considerations around contact with birth 8 00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:26,640 family, and what children who have a plan for adoption need 9 00:00:26,640 --> 00:00:29,240 most. All the discussion topics are 10 00:00:29,240 --> 00:00:31,600 outlined and time stamped in the show notes. 11 00:00:32,119 --> 00:00:35,200 If you'd like to find out more, get in touch via our website to 12 00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:36,920 arrange a call with a member of our team. 13 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:43,760 Phil, would you like to just explain kind of who you are, 14 00:00:44,680 --> 00:00:46,600 what your job role is at Family Futures? 15 00:00:47,360 --> 00:00:51,440 Yeah, hi everybody. I'm Phil Kane and I'm the I 16 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:56,920 adopt team leader, so I more or less manage the team alongside 17 00:00:57,120 --> 00:01:01,600 social workers, ensure that. And you've been a social worker 18 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:04,959 for how many years? Maybe too long I think. 19 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:10,760 Maybe too long. I think 951995. 20 00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:19,120 I started practice in 97 so I've had 20 odd years in children's 21 00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:22,440 social care and that's I've covered pretty much. 22 00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:27,160 Mostly it's just adoption but fostering, working in courts, 23 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:31,840 being self-employed. Worked for local authorities so 24 00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:34,840 I've done this a whole range of different social work and 25 00:01:34,840 --> 00:01:38,680 managerial roles. So you should know the answer to 26 00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:41,160 all of these questions then not to put you on. 27 00:01:42,320 --> 00:01:44,280 Most certainly, of course. Let's see. 28 00:01:44,280 --> 00:01:45,480 Let's see if you could trip me up. 29 00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:49,520 OK. So our first question or I think 30 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:52,800 it's just helpful for people to know is what is the first steps. 31 00:01:53,080 --> 00:01:56,320 You can contact us via our website via e-mail or you can 32 00:01:56,320 --> 00:01:59,000 give us a call and you will have a call back. 33 00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:03,960 So that call back will be either with myself and it's 30 minute 34 00:02:03,960 --> 00:02:06,400 Q&A call. I can answer any questions that 35 00:02:06,400 --> 00:02:10,440 you might have and I can talk a bit about your situation 36 00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:13,040 specifically. And then we kind of periodically 37 00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:16,560 have information evenings throughout the year. 38 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:21,880 Following that, we will then arrange an initial consultation 39 00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:26,080 and that would then be with yourself, Phil or another social 40 00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:28,280 work member of the team. Do you want to give a bit of an 41 00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:30,720 overview of what an initial consultation is? 42 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:34,720 Yeah, usually I would do the initial consultations and it is, 43 00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:38,600 it's just about really the, the tension is for us to find out a 44 00:02:38,600 --> 00:02:42,360 little bit more about the adopter, you and for you to get 45 00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:46,280 some more information about family futures, what we do and 46 00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:50,280 who we are. And as a consultation, we're 47 00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:53,520 trying to have it in a way that is kind of conversational. 48 00:02:53,640 --> 00:02:55,200 You know, I mean, it's not question answered, but it's 49 00:02:55,200 --> 00:02:59,560 conversational and finding out your understanding of adoption 50 00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:03,360 and what's your motivation. Why have you become to become, 51 00:03:03,360 --> 00:03:05,160 why do you want to become an adopter and why now? 52 00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:08,880 Because it's usually a specific reason why people think of 53 00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:13,400 adoption at this present moment, the time for them, it's always 54 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:17,560 just getting a sketch plan of who you are, what what you come 55 00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:22,840 from, family, family background. They're just getting a sort of a 56 00:03:22,840 --> 00:03:25,920 pink picture of who you are. You might be single applicant, 57 00:03:25,920 --> 00:03:29,400 You might be part of your relationship, how you make your 58 00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:31,400 relationships, any previous relationships. 59 00:03:31,640 --> 00:03:34,960 It's just to give us a sort of an overall feel for who you are 60 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:39,240 and as our understanding of why you why we have this 61 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:42,120 conversation right now with regards to adoption. 62 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:47,600 So we do talk about past relationships, the current 63 00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:49,400 relationships. We talk about your mental 64 00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:52,360 health. We talk about your home, the 65 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:55,320 fact that you need a spare bedroom, the community you live 66 00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:59,320 in, how long you've lived there have established you feel what's 67 00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:02,160 your intentions regards to adoption with regarding your 68 00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:04,400 home community, You're thinking of moving away. 69 00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:07,080 We talk about the support networks that you have 70 00:04:07,080 --> 00:04:11,240 roundabout you have established how reliable and how secure do 71 00:04:11,240 --> 00:04:13,480 you feel with the people that you have roundabout you. 72 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:17,600 So picking up that picture of who you are and what you've got 73 00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:20,640 to offer. As I say in this conversation, I 74 00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:23,720 will also ask you about your childcare experience and any 75 00:04:23,720 --> 00:04:27,520 voluntary work you've done because that's really essential 76 00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:30,520 to becoming a parent, that's having the experience of 77 00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:32,400 children and a variety of children. 78 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:36,280 And So what you've got that could be personally, it could be 79 00:04:36,280 --> 00:04:38,080 professional, you could be working with children in a 80 00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:42,200 professional experience. You could have been helping with 81 00:04:42,400 --> 00:04:45,840 nieces and nephews and things like that, but also voluntary 82 00:04:45,840 --> 00:04:49,200 work. And I think that with voluntary 83 00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:53,560 work, it widens the variety of children that you will come 84 00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:58,000 across, children with different needs, different challenges. 85 00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:02,440 And I think what's really good is a fight to see you get to 86 00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:05,080 know children that they had known anything about them. 87 00:05:05,080 --> 00:05:08,040 So from a standing start. And that's what's going to 88 00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:09,960 happen when you be an adopted child, is it? 89 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:13,640 You will find the information about them, you'll know all the 90 00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:17,760 personality, the background. But when that child comes to to 91 00:05:17,760 --> 00:05:20,560 live with you, you have your bump into meetings and I think 92 00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:22,760 you don't really know them. You've got to get that 93 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:25,440 relationship going from a standing start. 94 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:28,400 So having done that involuntary work is really, really helpful. 95 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:31,000 And it's something that you can tap into as an adopter. 96 00:05:31,240 --> 00:05:34,600 What you give is what that you get and and if you put you put 97 00:05:34,600 --> 00:05:36,640 your heart and soul in this, you're going to get more outer 98 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:39,480 and then start falling to work as a you will, you will learn 99 00:05:39,480 --> 00:05:41,840 more about yourself. You'll be making an actual 100 00:05:41,840 --> 00:05:45,080 impact on a child's life that you're working with and you're 101 00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:46,800 going to have the experience to take with you. 102 00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:50,120 And if you can get those three things out of that, you know, 103 00:05:50,120 --> 00:05:53,480 it's it's one win for you, for the child, and it's also one win 104 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:57,040 for us as an agency because we get evidence exactly the work 105 00:05:57,040 --> 00:06:00,160 that you've done and your motivation, your commitment, 106 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:02,960 your empathy, your understand to the children and how you will 107 00:06:02,960 --> 00:06:05,200 meet challenges as an adoptive parent. 108 00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:10,480 Another question that we get a lot is we're a voluntary agency, 109 00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:17,680 AVAA and there are regional agencies, so the RAA, So what is 110 00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:20,080 the difference comes up all the time. 111 00:06:20,920 --> 00:06:23,360 It's simple terms of the original adoption agencies. 112 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:29,200 RAAS is unknown is a collection of local authorities of of 113 00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:31,560 certain clubs. So just to keep things simple 114 00:06:31,560 --> 00:06:38,000 for us in London is the adoption London N constitutes a 115 00:06:38,400 --> 00:06:41,520 collection of different local authorities and they come 116 00:06:41,520 --> 00:06:47,160 together as a regional adoption agency and they take over the 117 00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:51,240 statutory, the statutory duties of the local authority regards 118 00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:54,600 to adoption. So the statutory duties are 119 00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:59,280 included recruitment, family finding and matching for 120 00:06:59,280 --> 00:07:02,680 children and post order support for that area. 121 00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:07,080 I cover when a but with a child with a part of adoption, the 122 00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:11,560 local authorities attached to the RAA will make a referral to 123 00:07:11,840 --> 00:07:17,200 the RAA for them to family find for that child to find a family 124 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:19,920 because a child has a plan of adoption, right? 125 00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:22,400 And that would that would have been agreed in court by 126 00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:24,080 something we call a placement order. 127 00:07:24,480 --> 00:07:27,080 The local authority for that child, when they get the plan of 128 00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:33,560 adoption they would prefer and then the RAA would then start 129 00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:36,400 family finding for that specific child. 130 00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:38,760 So they would have a profile of that child's needs. 131 00:07:39,080 --> 00:07:42,120 And then we start the match family finding process. 132 00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:45,480 And what they would do is that they would quite rightly go into 133 00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:49,920 their own Bank of approved adopters and see if they can 134 00:07:49,920 --> 00:07:52,520 find a match there for that child. 135 00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:57,120 And if they could find a match for that child, it is, it's 136 00:07:57,120 --> 00:08:00,280 positive because it makes things easier for the professional 137 00:08:00,280 --> 00:08:02,240 network. Everybody knows each other. 138 00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:05,760 It's it's more seamless and it's actually more cost effective. 139 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:10,120 So that would be the first man of action for the RAA is to try 140 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:18,560 and find the match for that child internally BA is differ in 141 00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:24,160 the respect is that they will recruit adopters like we do 142 00:08:24,640 --> 00:08:29,160 right, but they do not family find for children. 143 00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:33,000 The family find for the adopters that we've approved. 144 00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:37,600 So that's the big difference is that no children are referred to 145 00:08:37,799 --> 00:08:42,080 as we finally find for our adopters. 146 00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:48,320 It might sound like the region look to their own pool of 147 00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:51,440 adopters and just match the child with one of their intern 148 00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:55,520 with one of their existing adopters who've been assessed by 149 00:08:55,520 --> 00:08:59,160 them. And so why would you go to VAA? 150 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:06,440 But everyone's kind of shared goal is to find adopters or an 151 00:09:06,440 --> 00:09:09,080 adopter who meets the needs of that child. 152 00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:13,200 So if they don't have someone within their existing pool who 153 00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:17,120 meets the needs of that specific child and the needs all very 154 00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:22,600 varied, they're not going to go to one of their existing 155 00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:28,680 adopters who've been approved. So then they they kind of widen 156 00:09:28,680 --> 00:09:30,360 the search. Yeah. 157 00:09:31,560 --> 00:09:34,800 And part of the way the research is through the nationwide 158 00:09:35,120 --> 00:09:40,560 platform and that's where Vas like family futures would see 159 00:09:40,560 --> 00:09:46,360 the profiles of children that that have not been matched 160 00:09:46,360 --> 00:09:49,800 within the, the, the the RAA, right. 161 00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:57,560 So we would then look at children as with our our 162 00:09:57,560 --> 00:10:02,240 approved adopters would look at children and then say as look at 163 00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:04,920 children that they feel that they can meet their that child's 164 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:09,240 needs and then make an inquiry. So that's the difference between 165 00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:12,280 the VAA is the fact that we don't have the children and not 166 00:10:12,280 --> 00:10:17,640 refer to us. We go, we profile our adopters 167 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:23,360 to children that have been profiled by the RAA on online 168 00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:26,280 maker and then that's how we made the connection. 169 00:10:27,080 --> 00:10:32,880 Because of this, because we are only family finding for adopters 170 00:10:32,880 --> 00:10:38,320 and not children, Baas just by nature a lot smaller, it does 171 00:10:38,320 --> 00:10:41,960 mean that you get a more bespoke service. 172 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:45,120 I think that's one of the things about us specifically as an 173 00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:49,040 agency and something we always get really positive feedback on 174 00:10:49,400 --> 00:10:52,800 is the relationships, the working relationships that are 175 00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:56,960 built between our perspective and approved adopters and the 176 00:10:56,960 --> 00:10:59,960 team that works with them to assess and approve them. 177 00:11:00,640 --> 00:11:05,760 They get to know a small team and when they're moving through 178 00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:08,480 the process there's not lots of changes. 179 00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:12,240 The, the mere factor that we generally agencies, I say 180 00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:14,800 they're all they're as big because it's covered in aging 181 00:11:14,800 --> 00:11:18,680 and different areas. And from my experiences that 182 00:11:18,680 --> 00:11:22,600 they're the Ras will have separate teams, IE recruitment, 183 00:11:22,680 --> 00:11:25,520 family finding and then post order support, right. 184 00:11:25,520 --> 00:11:30,680 So in a lot of ways you could go from one service from one team 185 00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:34,640 the next into the next. As is a smaller agency. 186 00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:37,520 We carry, we take it all the way through. 187 00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:43,240 So it's a more seamless service. So I'm currently assessing 188 00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:47,320 people and then when everywhere they're approved is that I will 189 00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:50,640 then be taken through the whole family, family finding process 190 00:11:51,160 --> 00:11:54,320 and then hopefully go through like maker and finding a match 191 00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:57,400 for that child. And then when that child is 192 00:11:57,560 --> 00:12:02,360 matched is that we will provide the post order support to that 193 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:04,760 child to to that adoptive family. 194 00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:07,440 And I will still be a key person within that support that's 195 00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:11,040 provided. So that whole continuity of 196 00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:15,560 service provision that we can, we could provide because we are 197 00:12:15,560 --> 00:12:20,720 smaller and and that's a reflection of of size rather 198 00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:23,760 than anything else. And you know, I mean an RA is do 199 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:27,320 provide a, a good service. It's just a different service 200 00:12:27,320 --> 00:12:29,320 because we're bigger and we're smaller. 201 00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:33,680 What about how you would, you know if your initial 202 00:12:33,680 --> 00:12:37,280 consultation and you were kind of talking to someone about 203 00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:40,480 talking to a perspective doctor about why they would choose 204 00:12:40,520 --> 00:12:43,640 family futures? I really do think it's important 205 00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:47,640 is that when our initial consultation is that the people 206 00:12:48,280 --> 00:12:50,520 do get a sense of who we are, you know what I mean? 207 00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:53,400 So we have the a personal approach and from the first 208 00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:57,000 contact with yourself is that you'd be asking questions. 209 00:12:57,000 --> 00:12:59,880 We, we don't get you fill in a form, we have a conversation 210 00:12:59,880 --> 00:13:04,520 with you and we respect and value use an individual and, or 211 00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:11,520 other households and we want to promote adoption to the to, to 212 00:13:11,880 --> 00:13:13,960 people that can adopt. And there's a whole diverse 213 00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:18,160 range across the community. And so we're non judgmental, 214 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:22,920 sorry, and, and we're inclusive. So I think that the, the, the, 215 00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:26,200 the foundations that we actually welcome people who made them 216 00:13:26,200 --> 00:13:29,760 feel respected. We're non judgmental and we're 217 00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:36,040 open to have that conversation to see how adoption after after 218 00:13:36,040 --> 00:13:38,880 adoption interest is something that we can work with. 219 00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:42,720 And I think that most people maybe have company family 220 00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:44,920 futures and maybe looked at a website and things that 221 00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:48,120 understand the therapeutic ethos of family futures. 222 00:13:48,120 --> 00:13:50,840 And I think that part of the conversation of our initial 223 00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:53,760 consultation is that we do discuss a bit. 224 00:13:53,960 --> 00:13:58,320 It's our whole therapeutic ethos and how that underpins all the 225 00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:01,480 work that we do. And I think people feel aligned 226 00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:05,360 with that. I think that when they find out 227 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:07,840 that it's not just a social worker something myself, but 228 00:14:07,840 --> 00:14:11,960 there's a therapist and that therapist is there with the 229 00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:14,280 social worker all the way through the assessment. 230 00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:19,840 And potentially that therapist could be working with your with 231 00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:25,280 the family as the therapeutic, therapeutic needs the probably 232 00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:28,320 future provides when the child is placed with you. 233 00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:30,920 So is that such a seamlessness? And I think that people feel 234 00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:35,600 more held and more confident. It's quite, it's a very creative 235 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:39,240 process and that's what I often kind of talk to people about 236 00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:43,040 when I do initial inquiry calls because I think the typical 237 00:14:43,560 --> 00:14:46,320 assessment process like we've, you know, you've kind of 238 00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:51,520 mentioned is an, is an interview series of questions and it's 239 00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:54,280 conversational certainly in the beginning. 240 00:14:54,520 --> 00:14:58,720 But it's also, we use those therapy tools that we use in 241 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:01,800 other areas of our services to information gather. 242 00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:06,200 And I think that's something that we're so used to doing 243 00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:10,360 things that way, but people are often quite kind of intrigued 244 00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:12,240 by. Yeah, I mean, I've done the 245 00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:15,080 conventional way and the conventional way. 246 00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:16,600 There's nothing wrong with the conventional way. 247 00:15:16,600 --> 00:15:18,440 There's not here. They say it's just because I've 248 00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:21,520 done it just as many times as I've done the family future 249 00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:24,920 assessment. It's that it would be good at 250 00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:28,920 working stage 1. And then so people would be 251 00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:32,680 adopters would be in a group for maybe four or five different 252 00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:36,200 households who have spent I think 3 days in just discussing 253 00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:37,760 adoption, all the different things. 254 00:15:38,040 --> 00:15:41,800 And that would be their stage 1. And then in stage 2 255 00:15:42,520 --> 00:15:45,800 inventionally, it's a social worker who has effective their 256 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:48,760 question and answer, tell me this, tell me that because back 257 00:15:48,760 --> 00:15:51,840 was involved and that's how stage 2 is usually conducted. 258 00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:57,360 And I had to adopt the three years ago when I came here, too. 259 00:15:57,360 --> 00:15:59,440 And a completely different way of doing things. 260 00:15:59,760 --> 00:16:02,200 Yeah. So in stage one, we don't have 261 00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:04,520 any group work. We have a tested day. 262 00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:09,440 And the tested day is a day in the office with the therapist 263 00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:14,000 and the social worker. And we have some structured 264 00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:17,520 interviewing questions. But we also have we use some 265 00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:21,760 therapeutic tools that are used with children to elicit 266 00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:25,000 information about the support network, how they got on. 267 00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:27,960 It's called the sand tree. There's one called the MEM. 268 00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:32,800 And actually, I says, is the the couples or the person the 269 00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:37,680 couple, the correct person's ability to to make relationships 270 00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:42,840 and challenge and have nurture. And we also hope we use it 271 00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:47,160 adult. I'm sorry, I'd actually stay on 272 00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:50,680 that attaching style. And if you're yes, you know, 273 00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:53,880 which is another tool which gives us a sort of evidence base 274 00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:58,720 to what we are understanding of a person's ability to confine in 275 00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:03,240 people and have, you know, and have a different understand 276 00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:05,119 their attachment style as an adult. 277 00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:07,319 So we use those those type of things. 278 00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:11,200 And I think that what's good is the fact is that there are tools 279 00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:15,839 that we use when an adopter is with a child. 280 00:17:15,839 --> 00:17:18,319 So sometimes they confine, they go, they consider child, oh, 281 00:17:18,319 --> 00:17:20,800 we've done that or we've done that or we've done that. 282 00:17:21,160 --> 00:17:23,839 So that's stage 1, which is completely different. 283 00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:28,040 And stage 2 again is it's completely different again. 284 00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:34,040 It's 6 full days in the office and the first couple of days 285 00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:36,920 we've been up a life mark, which is very pictorial. 286 00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:40,600 We get people down in our knees drawing things and talking about 287 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:44,040 their life, things like that. We use the the therapist to get 288 00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:48,000 people to sort of look back at their life and maybe think about 289 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:50,960 things I've not thought about for a long, long time. 290 00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:54,400 You know, some emotions or feelings that that might brought 291 00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:58,800 up and forget them to actually really explore. 292 00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:05,800 And in some more graphic way, you know, by using arts to look 293 00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:08,920 at their life, the relationship that they might have had, if 294 00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:11,280 they've got a partner, and how they see the future. 295 00:18:11,640 --> 00:18:16,760 I think it's the basis of allowing our adopters to express 296 00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:19,400 themselves in different ways because everybody's learning 297 00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:22,640 style is different. And I think they, it really 298 00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:27,080 helps people really company understand why we're asking some 299 00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:32,000 of the questions. And then the other four days is 300 00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:38,520 a mixture of understanding the impacts of trauma that children 301 00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:42,240 who are adopted have suffered and how that impacts on the 302 00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:46,520 brain, how that impacts and we call ends up in developmental 303 00:18:46,520 --> 00:18:52,800 trauma and how we can understand and work with with children who 304 00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:56,640 have developmental trauma. And then also to start to think 305 00:18:56,640 --> 00:19:00,200 about therapeutic tools with therapeutic repairing and how we 306 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:05,280 can actually see behaviour is communication and actually 307 00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:08,600 having true empathy with that child's adverse childhood 308 00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:13,920 experiences and see that some of the behaviour, a lot of the 309 00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:17,760 behaviours as a result of insecure attachments and not 310 00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:22,840 having same stability, security and care, a lot of the shape for 311 00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:25,360 granted. So there's that. 312 00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:29,160 And I think there's also the self-care is a bit making sure 313 00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:30,520 that you can look after yourself. 314 00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:34,280 And I think some ways you just start to use what we've been 315 00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:38,400 doing for a long time is the support network meeting, which 316 00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:42,960 we, we have, we get the support network together online and we 317 00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:46,680 actually just talk about adoption today, very 318 00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:51,320 understanding developmental trauma and actually what 319 00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:56,040 behaviours the child might cope with and how they as a, as a 320 00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:58,840 support network can help the adopters. 321 00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:02,520 But being practical, emotional, being non judgmental, don't, 322 00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:04,840 don't do this. I wouldn't have done that, that 323 00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:08,760 kind of stuff and helping being empathetic and non judgmental. 324 00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:13,800 And that enrolls and it helps the support network to 325 00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:18,920 understand and feel part of the, the adoption journey that their 326 00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:20,800 friend or family is going through. 327 00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:23,560 So I think that it's really quite comprehensive. 328 00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:26,760 It's difficult and we. We do change things around 329 00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:28,240 because everybody's getting different. 330 00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:30,360 Well, indeed, take a better understanding. 331 00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:33,840 So it's not fixed in that respect. 332 00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:37,760 It's that we do calibrate it for everybody. 333 00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:40,680 But we have this, we have this essentially the same modules. 334 00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:43,680 People often also, I mean, thank you, that was really a really 335 00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:46,360 helpful overview of the assessment. 336 00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:50,600 Often we have people asking about the different needs of the 337 00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:54,440 children, so whether they have social, educational needs, 338 00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:56,640 disabilities, mental health challenges. 339 00:20:57,120 --> 00:21:00,600 I guess just a little bit of clarity on what perspective 340 00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:04,240 adopters could be or should be prepared for when thinking about 341 00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:08,400 the needs of the child. We've spoken a lot about meeting 342 00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:11,800 a child's needs, I. Think the assessment process 343 00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:16,920 will take you through and I think it might be sometimes 344 00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:21,760 difficult for people that have had a secure family that secure 345 00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:26,080 attachments and really the challenges that they've had in 346 00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:30,440 life haven't been too adverse. You know, I mean, to actually to 347 00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:33,440 hear and understand what children do go through to. 348 00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:39,360 I mean, a child to have a plan of adoption, 90 percent, 95% 349 00:21:39,360 --> 00:21:42,960 will be through the court proceedings and and the children 350 00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:45,280 will have been at risk of what we call significant harm. 351 00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:48,520 And these children will have suffered some form of trauma. 352 00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:50,920 And this could start very in the utero. 353 00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:55,680 The children's background will obviously impact on the type of 354 00:21:56,800 --> 00:22:00,320 harm that they've suffered. So often a child will be in a 355 00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:03,840 household where there has been substance misuse, just domestic 356 00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:05,280 violence. This could be happening in the 357 00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:10,760 utero as well as physical and sexual abuse and neglect and 358 00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:14,320 these things impact on a child in different in many different 359 00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:18,760 ways to people looking and the developmental prognosis of 360 00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:22,200 children may not become clear when you're in March. 361 00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:26,320 And so often we've got a child who might be 3 or 4 years of 362 00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:27,520 age. Do you know what I mean? 363 00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:34,080 And we know that maybe mum has taken as alcohol during 364 00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:36,920 pregnancy, but obviously that would be self reported. 365 00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:38,720 We don't really know how much it is. 366 00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:42,120 We've got to make a judgement and it'd be too early to see if 367 00:22:42,120 --> 00:22:46,960 that child was going to suffer fetal alcohol syndrome or the 368 00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:50,680 impact of domestic violence or drug taking and unpredictability 369 00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:55,600 that's impacted on that child's court is on and and utero and 370 00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:59,480 how this will come out as a child's presentation trauma as 371 00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:01,760 an autism. So all those different many 372 00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:03,840 unknowns. And I think that what are the 373 00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:06,280 doctors I think I've got here look at is it's come with an 374 00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:09,640 open mind. I can't be an understanding that 375 00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:13,040 you may actually before you commence to take an adoption, 376 00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:17,040 may at least think generically or specialized super needs. 377 00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:20,200 What does that mean? Or autism or can't do that or 378 00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:23,560 ADHD or can do that. But actually, when we break it 379 00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:28,440 down, actually see the pieces why and how children can be 380 00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:32,280 supported and making global developmentally put that in the 381 00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:34,920 context of everyday life, I think it becomes more 382 00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:38,960 manageable, more understandable for adopters. 383 00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:44,320 So I think it's, it's really difficult to say what a child 384 00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:48,040 might come with because every child is individual and all and 385 00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:52,000 have their own needs. And children like adults where 386 00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:56,040 we've got resilience, we've got different ways in which we have 387 00:23:56,040 --> 00:24:00,000 coped and and dealt with things. So I would say is that you come 388 00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:05,480 with an open mind to the type of children or the, the needs that 389 00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:07,960 you think that you can meet. And I think that's through the 390 00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:12,200 assessment process, you start to understand, can I, can I do 391 00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:14,080 this? Or what would, what is our 392 00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:17,280 capacity? What's my occurring capacity and 393 00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:20,680 how can we meet a child's needs? And I think if you come with 394 00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:24,680 that attitude, you'll be halfway there as if it wouldn't because 395 00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:28,400 we don't want you to be overextending yourself and then 396 00:24:29,120 --> 00:24:31,280 it doesn't work. So I think it's about you 397 00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:35,040 learning through the assessment process to find out exactly how 398 00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:38,640 far your capacity goes. You're going to think about, I 399 00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:41,840 guess single person, you're going to think about your going 400 00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:44,240 back to work, a career, what's your support network? 401 00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:46,120 Who do you have around you? All these different things are 402 00:24:46,120 --> 00:24:49,040 all part of the assessment and the other things that will also 403 00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:53,720 help you understand the type of needs think you can be of an 404 00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:57,280 adopted child. Another question that we often 405 00:24:57,280 --> 00:25:01,680 get is family links and contact with birth family. 406 00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:05,560 We talk a lot about contact. It's it's kind of mentioned a 407 00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:11,800 lot around adoption. What does that look like for 408 00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:13,920 adoptive parents? What can that look like? 409 00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:20,120 And I think that the both parents are often, not often, 410 00:25:20,120 --> 00:25:23,480 but it's not unusual is that they've actually been they've 411 00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:27,480 inflicted pain and they've suffering and trauma on, on the 412 00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:30,840 child that they that an adopter is potentially going to adopt. 413 00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:36,880 And I think at times on paper, some people can appear scary and 414 00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:39,520 frightening and what they've done, you know, is something 415 00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:44,880 that some adopters might feel some level of anger towards. 416 00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:48,440 And I think all these things are are understandable, you know, 417 00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:50,840 but I think they will. We've got to look at it this 418 00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:52,200 from a child's point of view here. 419 00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:57,360 Is that the whole intention of having contacts it's potential 420 00:25:57,360 --> 00:26:01,040 to keep in touch with above family because a both family is 421 00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:05,680 part of their identity and don't who where they came from and who 422 00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:08,640 they are. It's good for their self was and 423 00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:11,440 their self esteem. And if they've got siblings, 424 00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:14,640 these could potentially lifelong relationships that they could 425 00:26:15,120 --> 00:26:22,520 they can they can have and if adoption shouldn't be the cost 426 00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:26,040 of of relationships within the family. 427 00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:29,960 So we've got to look at the reasons is that how can we 428 00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:35,880 maintain contact for that child with his birth family, whoever 429 00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:37,760 they may be. He could be granny, he could be 430 00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:41,960 a granddad, whatever. If it's meaningful, if it helps 431 00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:46,040 your sense of identity, who they are, I'm understanding of why 432 00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:47,920 they have removed all the different things. 433 00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:52,400 It's to their benefit. And that's why we should be 434 00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:54,720 always thinking about can we do this? 435 00:26:54,840 --> 00:27:00,840 And if we can't understand the reasons why we can't, because if 436 00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:06,480 a child has some form of contact and think what's the bus farmer 437 00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:11,680 and knowledge, I think it stops a sort of idealisation of the 438 00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:14,200 family because you don't know anything about them and whether 439 00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:16,960 or this about that or I wonder what they're doing and things 440 00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:20,720 like that. So, and I think the, and then 441 00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:24,240 what all the social media is that kids these days could go on 442 00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:28,280 the Internet behind your back and they start looking up for 443 00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:31,760 the birth family inexpensive. We've got, we've got risky 444 00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:34,880 situations where the birth family is involved in the 445 00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:38,160 child's life and you're the doctor don't have any control 446 00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:40,120 over it. So I think that we've got to see 447 00:27:40,120 --> 00:27:45,560 it in this wider context of it's good for a child's identity, but 448 00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:48,760 it's got to be safe, it's got to be meaningful and it's got to be 449 00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:53,680 in their best interests. I know that we had one of our 450 00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:57,640 adopters come and speak in information evening and he 451 00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:04,760 shared his experience and he'd had his children face for I 452 00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:07,120 think about six months at the time. 453 00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:10,720 And it was someone asked him this question. 454 00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:15,800 What are would you say are sort of like the top three things 455 00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:20,240 that children typically want from their adoptive parents? 456 00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:25,760 And his answers were predictability and routine, to 457 00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:31,240 feel loved and to be heard and their views to be acted upon. 458 00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:36,280 Is there anything that you would kind of add from that from your 459 00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:39,360 your professional experience? I think that. 460 00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:44,480 I think, however, I said that it's got in a nutshell, I think 461 00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:50,000 that it's to feel loved if you wanted, and that's scary for a 462 00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:53,960 lot of your adopted children. They keep waiting for the the 463 00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:56,360 bubble to bust and they're going to be taken back to where they 464 00:28:56,360 --> 00:29:01,680 were and things like that. So I think to, they want and I 465 00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:04,840 think the predictability in that routine and know where they 466 00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:08,400 stand and know what's going to happen to have a routine and 467 00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:11,520 that helps them be able to feel loved. 468 00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:15,640 And if they feel loved and they feel respected, I think that 469 00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:18,880 then they can have a voice, they can have a voice, they can have 470 00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:22,160 their views, they can see how they feel, they can feel equal. 471 00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:24,520 They can feel the part of a family. 472 00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:28,040 They've got to be respected and valued and their views are going 473 00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:30,360 to be acted upon. So I think that there's always 474 00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:36,240 the steps there. Is that how we help a child be 475 00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:39,560 actually in a position where they actually feel part of a 476 00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:44,000 family, they feel loved, they know where they stand, to know 477 00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:46,240 where they're going to be. Their parents have got their 478 00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:49,960 back, the ambitious and fields are being inspected and acted 479 00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:52,800 upon. And this is lifelong. 480 00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:54,920 I think lifelong is another part of it. 481 00:29:56,360 --> 00:30:02,120 And then just finally, what advice would you give to someone 482 00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:06,320 thinking about adoption or starting their adoption journey? 483 00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:13,160 My advice, I would I could open up the conversation, but people 484 00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:17,920 you trust, because a lot of people the adoption is very it's 485 00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:20,520 something the better thought about it for a long time, a bit 486 00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:23,760 unsure who they could talk to about in sense of that. 487 00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:27,280 But I think that if you start talking to people, you know, and 488 00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:31,720 family friends, how people you network, you might be quite 489 00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:36,240 surprised that the natural factor adoption is more 490 00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:41,000 prevalent and more and within families, they may not be talked 491 00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:43,760 about because Oh yeah, and I know somebody who used to adopt 492 00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:46,400 it or do you know they're adopted to things that I starts 493 00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:49,760 a conversation that you might that might actually surprise 494 00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:53,320 you. Do your research, whatever way 495 00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:55,040 it suits you. Do you mean it could be listen 496 00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:58,040 to this, hopefully it could be videos. 497 00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:01,520 There's YouTube you can learn, there's reading all the 498 00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:05,160 different ways, but get as much information as possible so that 499 00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:08,120 you're prepared. You can understand of what 500 00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:13,600 adoption is like in 2025 and the fact that it's no a Disney 501 00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:15,880 movie. It's very difficult, it's 502 00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:18,080 challenging, but it has its rewards. 503 00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:20,800 Find out what you're walking this what what you're 504 00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:24,040 potentially going into the work that you've done with children, 505 00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:27,000 jot it down. Because a lot of times when we 506 00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:30,360 find any assessment is that people say, oh, I forgot about 507 00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:32,600 that or I never realized that and that's your fact. 508 00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:36,080 Really, really good pieces of evidence or things that we can 509 00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:42,560 reflect, reflect and help them with understanding adoption or 510 00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:44,360 taking that and being an adopter. 511 00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:48,040 So I think that what you've done have a list of it. 512 00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:50,800 So I've done some voluntary work. 513 00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:53,400 I think it's handy. And we mentioned earlier, I 514 00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:56,240 think that what you give us, what you get. 515 00:31:56,680 --> 00:32:01,640 It's good learning, it's good evidence, and I think that most 516 00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:05,800 people actually enjoy Phoebe kids and actually gives them 517 00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:09,160 assistance. And this is really what I want 518 00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:13,440 to do. And I think that have a log. 519 00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:16,240 Have a log. What you wrote, what you've 520 00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:18,800 seen, what you've heard, just jot it down. 521 00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:20,840 You've got a log. There's something that you can 522 00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:23,960 share with your assessor. You're a social worker and 523 00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:26,880 things like that. It's also a reference point for 524 00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:28,920 yourself. When you're a doctor, you go, 525 00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:33,520 all right, this reminds me of that, but also, well, you're a 526 00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:35,360 doctor. Might be that you're the you're 527 00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:38,200 the expert, you're giving, you're giving tips to somebody 528 00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:40,200 else who is a prospective adopter. 529 00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:43,280 If you've got a log of what you've done, you've found that 530 00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:46,640 was actually beneficial to you, might be beneficial to them. 531 00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:51,600 Do that is join adoption groups, adoption UK at different groups 532 00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:56,840 that that might give you a wider perspective of people's 533 00:32:56,840 --> 00:33:02,280 experiences so that you can hear what adopters are going through. 534 00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:05,760 What's the challenges, what's the rewards, what's the support, 535 00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:08,680 what's the difference level support might actually help you 536 00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:11,280 decide whether you want to go with an RAA or AVAA. 537 00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:16,360 And and it also says, but that is go and see more than one 538 00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:19,040 agency. You know, we we know we do 539 00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:24,880 family futures and but we might not be for you. 540 00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:29,360 You might not be for us, but go and see different agencies and 541 00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:33,600 find the where you feel most comfortable who you're going to 542 00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:37,120 be sharing 4 or less your life, your life story. 543 00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:42,000 You're going to be have have to confide in people that you don't 544 00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:44,040 know. Are you need to be able to feel. 545 00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:47,480 Yeah, I trust these people. I think I I think I could work 546 00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:51,120 with them. Thanks for listening to this 547 00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:53,440 episode of the Family Futures Podcast. 548 00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:57,680 If you'd like to find out more about adopting with I Adopt, get 549 00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:00,560 in touch via our website to arrange a call with a member of 550 00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:01,040 our team.