1 00:00:01,920 --> 00:00:05,560 In today's episode, we're joined by Angela Palasos, Senior 2 00:00:05,560 --> 00:00:08,920 Educational Psychotherapist, Neurodiversity affirming 3 00:00:08,920 --> 00:00:12,760 Practitioner, Executive Function Coach and ASD Assessor. 4 00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:16,640 Andrew is going to tell me a bit more about three key areas of 5 00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:20,000 support we offer through the Well-being Hub, Educational 6 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:23,280 psychotherapy, psychotherapy for emotionally based school 7 00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:26,080 avoidance, and executive function coaching. 8 00:00:26,720 --> 00:00:29,640 So if you've ever wondered why extra tutoring isn't working for 9 00:00:29,640 --> 00:00:32,759 your child or why seemingly simple tasks that lead to a 10 00:00:32,759 --> 00:00:35,240 complete breakdown, this episode is for you. 11 00:00:40,120 --> 00:00:42,920 You. Are obviously a professional and 12 00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:48,080 you're providing kind of varying levels or support techniques 13 00:00:49,040 --> 00:00:51,480 quite typically for people who are neurodiverse, but you're 14 00:00:51,480 --> 00:00:55,480 also neurodiverse yourself. Do you want to share a little 15 00:00:55,480 --> 00:00:59,960 bit about how that kind of came to be your particular type of 16 00:00:59,960 --> 00:01:03,160 neurodiversity? Yes, You know, I always thought 17 00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:06,080 that there was something different about me starting from 18 00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:09,160 from school. I used to get very distracted. 19 00:01:10,360 --> 00:01:12,680 Sometimes I would forget a lot of the times I would forget 20 00:01:12,680 --> 00:01:15,000 about my homework. Not just that I have to do 21 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:17,680 homework, but what was it? I didn't write it down. 22 00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:21,320 I started panicking. Oh my gosh, I'm trying to get to 23 00:01:21,320 --> 00:01:24,120 talk to my friends so they could tell me what what the homework 24 00:01:24,120 --> 00:01:26,800 was about. Like all of those things I heard 25 00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:29,000 many times. Oh, she's so smart, but, you 26 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:32,120 know, she's very lazy. If only she applied herself a 27 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:34,880 bit more, you know, that type of thing. 28 00:01:34,960 --> 00:01:39,800 And yeah, as I grew older, doing essays and putting things 29 00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:43,360 together, my thoughts together, writing things down, that was 30 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:46,560 such a struggle. Like it would take me forever 31 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:52,920 for my body then to find the motivation to, to start, to get 32 00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:56,520 the pen, to start writing, to turn my laptop on, that type of 33 00:01:56,520 --> 00:01:58,240 thing. So it's I always felt like I 34 00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:04,040 didn't have the energy or the motivation to, you know, those 35 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:07,840 things because there were things that required a lot of thinking 36 00:02:08,440 --> 00:02:13,120 or because I wasn't maybe that interested in, in doing the 37 00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:16,080 admin side of things. So I always thought I will 38 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:19,680 clearly people, it seems like everyone can do things very 39 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:22,760 easily and they typing away and they're doing all these things 40 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:26,480 one after the other. They get all the do To Do List 41 00:02:26,800 --> 00:02:29,560 done very quickly. And for me it just takes 42 00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:31,840 forever. So I always thought I will 43 00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:35,160 clearly there must be something here because it's not just now 44 00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:37,800 as in a grown up. It's it's been there forever. 45 00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:45,080 So, yeah, I got diagnosed with ADHD at the age of 43. 46 00:02:46,960 --> 00:02:49,040 Yeah. And that's made a lot of sense 47 00:02:49,040 --> 00:02:54,200 to me and to my everyday life. I understand things. 48 00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:57,760 I don't feel a change about, you know, making mistakes or not 49 00:02:57,760 --> 00:03:00,320 being able to meet deadlines and things like that. 50 00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:05,040 I know why, and I try to put the strategies in place. 51 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:08,200 So it does. It does make a lot of sense to 52 00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:10,400 me now. And now it helps me a lot to 53 00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:13,200 also understand my clients and the people that I work with 54 00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:17,160 because I know that we have those shared experiences. 55 00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:21,040 Yeah. And I can tell them, you know, 56 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:22,600 try this. It's worked for me or this 57 00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:24,680 didn't work for me, but maybe it will for you. 58 00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:28,120 So just having those conversations around our brains 59 00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:32,040 and what can we do to make things a little easier? 60 00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:33,680 I mean, it's never going to go away. 61 00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:38,120 It's it's always going to be there, but we can certainly do 62 00:03:38,120 --> 00:03:44,280 things to help ourselves manage. I think it's interesting what 63 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:47,000 you said, just thinking about the clients you work with, the 64 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:54,240 young people and you saying that you were described as school as 65 00:03:54,320 --> 00:03:59,360 being basically able but not motivated and how that felt in 66 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:04,840 your body. But with it sounds like from 67 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:08,040 what I know about executive functioning coaching and I will 68 00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:12,280 ask you to explain a little bit more then that is something that 69 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:17,519 is a particularly helpful for children and young people who 70 00:04:17,519 --> 00:04:24,800 have neurodiversity. I myself am dyslexic and how 71 00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:26,960 does what does that look like? What is it? 72 00:04:27,440 --> 00:04:31,480 What does the executive functioning coaching session 73 00:04:31,640 --> 00:04:33,080 consist of? Obviously it'll be slightly 74 00:04:33,080 --> 00:04:35,240 different, but if you could give us an idea of that, that'd be 75 00:04:35,240 --> 00:04:38,360 really helpful. Well, I think it depends. 76 00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:41,560 It varies from individual to individual how old they are. 77 00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:44,000 You know, we would focus differently if the if we're 78 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:47,640 working with a child or even a teenager or a grown up that you 79 00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:49,600 know, does work in an office and things like that. 80 00:04:49,840 --> 00:04:54,320 But essentially what we look at is the individual's executive 81 00:04:54,320 --> 00:04:56,840 function profile. So the executive functions are 82 00:04:56,840 --> 00:05:01,040 skills that we use every day for everything from tying up our 83 00:05:01,040 --> 00:05:05,920 shoelaces to packing our bags with our laptops and things and 84 00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:10,200 all the things that we need for the day to even remember where 85 00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:13,040 we put our things, our keys, our mobile phones, all that kind of 86 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:15,400 stuff. So very basic skills that that 87 00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:19,000 we use on a daily basis. So when we look at the 88 00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:23,280 individual's profiles, we look at, OK, what are what executive 89 00:05:23,280 --> 00:05:27,920 functions are most challenged for this person, for someone 90 00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:31,680 could be like working memory or time management. 91 00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:34,800 And then we think about, OK, when do we see the, the 92 00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:38,520 challenges around this executive functions and we think of goals, 93 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:43,440 what do we see improving? So someone might say, well, I 94 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:49,040 want to be able to leave my home with enough time to get to work 95 00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:54,400 and have maybe 5 or 10 minutes to settle, prepare my things, 96 00:05:54,480 --> 00:05:57,600 perhaps get a cup of coffee rather than just walking in all 97 00:05:57,600 --> 00:06:00,240 stressed because I'm very late. I have admitted, you know, that 98 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:02,680 type of thing. So we sort of break that down 99 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:05,640 into steps. OK, so in order to leave your 100 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:08,280 place on time, what do you need to do? 101 00:06:08,640 --> 00:06:11,920 Do you need to get up a bit earlier or do you need to 102 00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:14,680 structure your time, get up at the same time? 103 00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:19,640 But maybe maybe don't spend so much time in the shower or on 104 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:22,760 your phone before you get to, you know, we look at the 105 00:06:22,760 --> 00:06:27,080 individual sort of routine and structure and we think, OK, what 106 00:06:27,080 --> 00:06:30,880 needs changing? And with that in mind, what 107 00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:34,840 strategies can do practice and put in place so that you can 108 00:06:34,840 --> 00:06:39,040 then leave your house a little earlier and get to work on time? 109 00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:42,760 You know, that sort of thing? So it sounds like it's quite, 110 00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:47,280 it's applicable, like executive functioning coaching is 111 00:06:47,280 --> 00:06:51,240 applicable for anyone who needs help with those kind of like 112 00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:55,440 daily tasks. It sounds like I'm particularly 113 00:06:55,440 --> 00:06:59,400 interested in the neurodiverse aspects because what you're 114 00:06:59,400 --> 00:07:05,320 describing about in order to leave the house on time and to 115 00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:08,480 make sure that you have enough space when you get to the 116 00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:13,640 office, for example, the, I imagine for quite a few people. 117 00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:16,880 Well, yeah, I just have to get up and make sure I leave it this 118 00:07:16,880 --> 00:07:22,120 time for myself as a, as a also a neurodiverse person, I, I have 119 00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:26,080 to think about it in blocks of I have to go all the way back to 120 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:28,160 right. I need this, I need 30 minutes 121 00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:31,360 to sort of get dressed and sort myself out. 122 00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:34,320 I need to pre plan my outfit because otherwise I know that 123 00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:36,680 slows me down. If I'm like, oh, I haven't got 124 00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:39,160 these jeans, they're in the wash and then that throws me. 125 00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:46,080 I need, you know, to, I will pack my breakfast beforehand 126 00:07:46,080 --> 00:07:49,360 because I know that again, if that's going to slow me down and 127 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:52,520 breaking it up into like increments and steps and like, 128 00:07:52,640 --> 00:07:54,880 you know, I'm, I'm a 32 year old woman. 129 00:07:54,880 --> 00:07:57,720 I have to think about these things because that's just the 130 00:07:57,720 --> 00:08:03,320 way that my brain works. But I think for younger people, 131 00:08:03,320 --> 00:08:08,520 things like that in the classroom or understanding that 132 00:08:08,520 --> 00:08:11,040 it's OK that I just need that bit more time or it's OK, or 133 00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:14,240 it's not strange that I need to think about these things when 134 00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:15,320 other people are going. Oh, yeah. 135 00:08:15,320 --> 00:08:17,160 What do you mean? I just get up and go and it's 136 00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:20,200 fine, or it's stressful to me to be rushing? 137 00:08:20,440 --> 00:08:22,280 Yeah. Yeah, yeah, it's for all the 138 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:23,320 people. That's the thing. 139 00:08:23,320 --> 00:08:26,800 For all the neurotypical people, as we hear it. 140 00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:28,960 This sounds like, well, what's the issue, isn't it? 141 00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:31,000 It's like you just get ready and leave. 142 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:33,080 What's the problem? Why are you, Why are you 143 00:08:33,080 --> 00:08:35,159 stressing? But it is very stressful. 144 00:08:35,440 --> 00:08:38,760 And it sounds like your brain in some areas like this, getting 145 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:40,559 ready. You're very organised. 146 00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:44,400 I can't do any of those things. Even if I remind myself that I 147 00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:47,840 have to do all those things. And that's my ADHD. 148 00:08:47,840 --> 00:08:50,760 Like I just, I just can't do it. So I always stress and what do I 149 00:08:50,800 --> 00:08:52,640 wear? And I just grab the first thing 150 00:08:52,640 --> 00:08:55,560 I see. There's no planning, it's just 151 00:08:55,560 --> 00:08:58,080 rushing. Even if I say to myself, OK, 152 00:08:58,080 --> 00:09:01,440 I've got an hour, so like you said, let me just structure my 153 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:04,200 hour, right? So in the next 15 minutes of 154 00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:05,760 now, it just doesn't simply work. 155 00:09:07,040 --> 00:09:10,960 So it takes a lot of effort to be able to do all of these 156 00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:14,680 things that for somebody else, it's just a very normal, easy 157 00:09:14,680 --> 00:09:18,760 thing to do to just get ready with no stress and leave the 158 00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:22,800 house. And I guess it's that effort 159 00:09:22,880 --> 00:09:26,440 that is so draining, right, that you're having to do that extra 160 00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:28,520 thinking. I'm aware that we've kind of 161 00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:31,160 strayed into one of our favorite topics to talk about, which is 162 00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:33,320 neurodiversity and how it kind of manifests. 163 00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:38,360 But so that is a really good example of like the executive 164 00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:40,880 function and coaching and like how you would get a client to 165 00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:44,400 think about the systems they need to put in place to support 166 00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:50,080 themselves. What is emotionally emotionally 167 00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:55,440 based school avoidance? Because I'm not sure what that 168 00:09:55,440 --> 00:09:58,160 is. That that happens when a child 169 00:09:58,520 --> 00:10:02,760 doesn't want to go to school and it's usually because of some 170 00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:07,680 anxiety associated with school. It could be because they, they 171 00:10:07,680 --> 00:10:10,760 don't like one of their teachers, or it could be because 172 00:10:10,760 --> 00:10:13,600 something's happened. You know, maybe not necessarily 173 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:17,560 bullying, but there are aspects of school that are difficult for 174 00:10:17,560 --> 00:10:23,080 the child and that brings up some anxiety and the child might 175 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:27,000 be a bit frightened to go there to see some people or to just be 176 00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:28,840 in a lesson with a particular teacher. 177 00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:33,000 So what they do they, they sort of refuse to go to school and 178 00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:38,560 often they complain with tummy aches or they say, I can't 179 00:10:38,560 --> 00:10:42,440 really go because XY and Z. There are some some excuses, but 180 00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:43,800 it's not because they don't want to. 181 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:47,120 They probably want to go to school, but they just simply 182 00:10:47,120 --> 00:10:51,320 can't because the anxiety is so much that that stops themselves 183 00:10:51,320 --> 00:10:54,160 from from putting themselves in that situation. 184 00:10:54,520 --> 00:10:57,040 And a lot of people look at it as in they're just being 185 00:10:57,040 --> 00:10:59,160 difficult. They're lazy, they don't really 186 00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:02,400 want to go to school. They try to be opposition of 187 00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:04,920 that. It's not really, most cases it's 188 00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:06,160 not. That's not really the the 189 00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:07,840 reason. They just simply can't. 190 00:11:08,120 --> 00:11:10,600 You know, it's like when I was talking about my body not being 191 00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:13,760 able to to move and to start things. 192 00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:15,640 Well, it's the same. They can't possibly get 193 00:11:15,640 --> 00:11:18,920 themselves to to get ready because where they're heading 194 00:11:18,920 --> 00:11:22,640 to, it's very, very scary for whichever the reason. 195 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:25,560 For somebody else, it might not even be an issue at all, but for 196 00:11:25,560 --> 00:11:30,600 them it feels really intense. So they can't and then they come 197 00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:33,760 up with these excuses. So to say that for them are very 198 00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:36,680 true, but for other people might sound like, you know, they just, 199 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:39,040 it has been difficult. They don't really want to go 200 00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:40,960 there, yes. Get up with that. 201 00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:42,840 Yeah, get it. Just just go. 202 00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:45,840 Yeah. Being quite so with educational 203 00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:50,120 psychotherapy specifically for emotionally based school 204 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:54,280 avoidance, is that what would a session look like? 205 00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:57,040 Is that you? Because psychotherapy is talking 206 00:11:57,240 --> 00:12:01,000 therapy, right? So is that you sitting down with 207 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:06,680 the child or young person 1 to 1 and unpicking or the parent? 208 00:12:06,680 --> 00:12:08,440 Involved. What does that look like? 209 00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:12,080 Yeah. So it it, it's different from 210 00:12:12,080 --> 00:12:16,480 psychotherapy in that you ask that learning element or that 211 00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:18,280 school element, right. OK. 212 00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:22,360 So it might not necessarily be an issue around maths or, I 213 00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:24,000 don't know, divisions or whatever. 214 00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:27,640 It might be that there is some anxiety linked to school. 215 00:12:27,640 --> 00:12:31,080 So what do you do? Do you try to unpick that by 216 00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:34,400 first talking to the child and trying to understand what it is 217 00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:37,760 about school that they find so tricky? 218 00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:42,640 And if you realise that really the issue is linked to some 219 00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:46,840 learning difficulty, maybe again, maths, they, they don't 220 00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:49,920 understand numbers and they, they just simply don't want to 221 00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:52,280 go because they know that they're going to be exposed to 222 00:12:52,280 --> 00:12:55,480 all these things that everyone seems to be able to do, but they 223 00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:59,680 themselves can manage. And so you, you start on 224 00:12:59,680 --> 00:13:03,440 picking, OK, maths is the issue. Let's let's go deeper into that. 225 00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:06,120 What bits about maths is that you don't understand? 226 00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:09,600 Is it just the numbers? Is it when you put numbers 227 00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:11,080 together? Is it when you're trying to 228 00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:14,600 solve some problems and things? And that's when you introduce 229 00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:18,200 some of the maths elements and the learning. 230 00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:22,520 So you're not helping them learn how to, you know, do their 231 00:13:22,520 --> 00:13:25,320 timetables or anything like that, but you're sort of 232 00:13:25,320 --> 00:13:29,680 bringing the element, the, the, the skill themselves, itself, 233 00:13:29,680 --> 00:13:34,200 the learning to then see what comes up for them, whether 234 00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:36,640 they're anxious, whether they refuse to do it. 235 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:40,200 And then that's where you start reflecting and exploring with 236 00:13:40,200 --> 00:13:41,760 them. OK, clearly there is an issue 237 00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:45,840 when, when we bring this into the space, I notice that this is 238 00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:49,320 what's going on for you. And then they might eventually 239 00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:52,440 feel ready to say, yes, I don't like maths because this, this, 240 00:13:52,440 --> 00:13:56,240 this and that and that's it. Then you're trying to explore 241 00:13:56,240 --> 00:13:59,280 with that and you go, you know, you support them with that, but 242 00:13:59,280 --> 00:14:01,800 you don't teach them. It's not tutoring, right? 243 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:04,800 So the academic performance is not what matters here. 244 00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:09,120 What matters is the feelings associated with that particular 245 00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:12,400 aspect of learning. And the sort of 246 00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:16,960 intersectionality between the two that they kind of inform 247 00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:19,520 each other. So you can't, yeah, just be 248 00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:22,400 like, oh, you're anxious about school because you don't like 249 00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:24,720 this lesson. It's like sounds like a much 250 00:14:24,720 --> 00:14:28,000 deeper exploration of of that, which is really interesting. 251 00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:30,160 Yeah. And it could be that maybe this 252 00:14:30,160 --> 00:14:34,880 say with maths again that the the child felt shamed when they 253 00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:39,440 couldn't solve the problem or when they couldn't calculator 254 00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:43,960 some or, and they felt protected and they felt ashamed. 255 00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:47,680 And so there is this avoidance to go there again because it 256 00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:50,880 brings back feelings that are very unpleasant. 257 00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:55,040 And so they they, they have this response to maths where they 258 00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:57,880 avoid, avoid it all together. Yeah. 259 00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:00,880 And. That's what you work with in the 260 00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:04,080 session. So the educational 261 00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:07,360 psychotherapy, I guess I'm just going back to thinking about if 262 00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:11,960 I was like a parent listening to this would be appropriate for a 263 00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:15,480 child or young person who is struggling with school. 264 00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:20,360 He's not necessarily saying or refusing to go, but who is 265 00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:24,960 clearly going, coming out and anxious before stress before 266 00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:30,680 Sunday evening is the nightmare. I'm just, you know, and, and 267 00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:36,600 then the school avoidance is the sort of quite a bit of serious 268 00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:40,000 accumulation of all of that anxiety and stress around 269 00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:44,600 education in that child saying actually, I'm not going now and 270 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:49,520 that so educational psychotherapy would be very 271 00:15:49,520 --> 00:15:52,720 appropriate for a child who's obviously struggling in school. 272 00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:55,840 Obviously jump in and correct me if I'm, if I grasp this wrong, 273 00:15:56,120 --> 00:16:00,520 who's struggling in school, doesn't need tutoring, but needs 274 00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:05,080 some kind of therapeutic support and therapy Because whatever's 275 00:16:05,080 --> 00:16:08,000 going on with their education is what is causing the issue for 276 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:12,160 them is, is having an effect. And that I guess at that age 277 00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:15,600 when you're in primary school and secondary school, you know, 278 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:18,400 your whole life is school and learning. 279 00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:23,360 It's very, it's a huge part. You forget being an adult, but 280 00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:26,120 school is your whole. It's kind of your social life. 281 00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:31,240 It's everything. Yeah, it could be that. 282 00:16:31,240 --> 00:16:35,760 You know, Charlie's very bright, but again, for some reason that 283 00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:39,160 links to their emotions, they're not able to function or to 284 00:16:39,160 --> 00:16:42,160 progress or make progress in a particular area of their 285 00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:46,160 learning, say English, because spelling is is is tricky for 286 00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:50,400 them or the writing. They're not confident and that 287 00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:53,960 would affect how they feel about school altogether. 288 00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:56,080 It's not just English, it's everything else. 289 00:16:56,080 --> 00:17:01,000 Because they might come in at 8-9 o'clock and they have a few 290 00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:05,960 different lessons and then it's English after 5-5 hours of being 291 00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:08,400 at school. But those first five hours the 292 00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:09,960 child will be completely anxious. 293 00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:13,480 It's not that they will be functioning OK before English, 294 00:17:13,480 --> 00:17:19,560 say they will be, they stressed the whole day during and after 295 00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:21,960 English if that's what they're struggling with. 296 00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:25,720 So it really does have an impact on themselves and and how they 297 00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:30,400 experience the school as a whole, not just that particular 298 00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:32,320 aspect of it. And then of course that will 299 00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:35,080 have an impact on how they are with their friends because they 300 00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:37,360 will be anxious, maybe they will be a bit Moody. 301 00:17:37,360 --> 00:17:39,400 Friends will wonder what's going on here. 302 00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:43,560 So it does impact all of the aspects of of school, just that 303 00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:46,880 particular one where they where they're finding, you know, 304 00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:47,920 challenging. Yeah. 305 00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:52,280 And where just having a tutor if your child is struggling in 306 00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:54,440 maths may not actually be enough. 307 00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:59,000 Or the the, a solution that offers them the most level of 308 00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:02,880 support because it's about the emotional aspect and like the 309 00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:08,600 mental bit. That's really interesting. 310 00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:10,920 I hadn't quite made the connection or really understood 311 00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:15,840 about the educational aspect of educational psychotherapy. 312 00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:20,680 Do you think that the clients that you see who you do 313 00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:28,120 educational psychotherapy with, is there a kind of common thread 314 00:18:28,120 --> 00:18:33,880 of neurodiversity or educational additional needs or specific 315 00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:40,480 needs that run through that? So it's a bit more, it's more 316 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:43,240 common for children who have additional needs. 317 00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:45,720 And I would say, you know, being dyslexic like that is an 318 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:51,120 additional need. And I wasn't, I didn't have a 319 00:18:51,120 --> 00:18:56,560 formal diagnosis of dyslexia until I think I had in secondary 320 00:18:56,560 --> 00:18:59,520 school. And then I didn't have any 321 00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:04,720 support in exams or anything until sick form. 322 00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:12,240 And it was really tricky for me with learning, and I can really 323 00:19:12,240 --> 00:19:14,360 relate to some of the aspects that he was talking about. 324 00:19:15,040 --> 00:19:16,640 But yeah, would you say there's a common thread of 325 00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:19,520 neurodiversity through that, through those supports or the 326 00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:24,720 children you see that you're like, OK, there are themes in 327 00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:28,200 there. Yeah, there is also because 328 00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:32,560 there is often these communication difficulties and 329 00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:36,040 social difficulties, right, that are also linked to school and 330 00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:41,720 being around friends. But I will also say that I have 331 00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:45,240 clients and it works really well with children that unfortunately 332 00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:47,920 they don't have the support they need in their birth families. 333 00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:50,840 So they don't have support around homework. 334 00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:54,600 They feel very lost or they feel pressured to perform when 335 00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:57,840 they're being helped to to do their homework. 336 00:19:57,840 --> 00:20:00,640 So there is a lot of anxiety associated with. 337 00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:04,920 Learning, right, because they feel the pressure of because 338 00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:08,040 they feel like they're not good enough by comments made by the 339 00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:13,320 parents or carers. So when you have a child that 340 00:20:13,320 --> 00:20:16,240 doesn't really get the support emotionally that they need and 341 00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:20,000 the makes, you know, they have a, a carer or an adult that 342 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:23,920 helps them just with the homework or the learning, but 343 00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:26,520 also with the emotions that come with that, with that, with 344 00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:29,600 trying to get that done. When they don't have that, that 345 00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:33,280 the they really, the response is much more reactive, isn't it? 346 00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:35,440 Because they feel completely unsafe. 347 00:20:35,440 --> 00:20:38,480 So I'm, I'm given this piece of work that is already making me 348 00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:44,880 feel awful and, and, and unable and, and, you know, it makes me 349 00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:48,360 feel dumb really. And then the, the person sitting 350 00:20:48,360 --> 00:20:51,280 next to me, they don't see that that's how I'm feeling and 351 00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:53,640 they're pressuring me. They're telling me that I'm very 352 00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:55,120 lazy. They're telling me that I'm not 353 00:20:55,120 --> 00:20:59,040 listening others. So a lot of these children then 354 00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:04,360 have challenges and difficulties with, you know, getting started 355 00:21:04,360 --> 00:21:06,760 and performing and doing things because they avoid it 356 00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:08,440 altogether. It just doesn't feel good. 357 00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:10,600 That's it. So why would I put myself in a 358 00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:14,120 position where I have to feel all of these things and no one 359 00:21:14,120 --> 00:21:18,600 helps me feel better about it or helps me in a way that really 360 00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:20,400 takes into account how I'm feeling. 361 00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:24,400 So all of those children that, you know, don't get that help at 362 00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:29,360 home, that emotional help as well, they benefit a lot from 363 00:21:30,360 --> 00:21:33,600 educational psychotherapy because he's having that 364 00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:36,000 container of the feelings, isn't it as well? 365 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:39,080 Yeah. And it might be that you're, I 366 00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:43,880 guess that your child is, you know, you come from like a high 367 00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:49,320 performing family. Everyone does very well 368 00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:52,320 academically. Your child might be doing pretty 369 00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:56,280 well academically, but clearly very stressed and anxious. 370 00:21:57,400 --> 00:22:02,680 And because they're doing well at school, it's hard to make the 371 00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:07,800 link or understand why they feel so stressed and anxious and 372 00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:11,800 having that kind of thinking about the feelings that are 373 00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:15,240 involved in that. And OK, they might be doing 374 00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:19,000 really, really well and scoring very highly, but the stress that 375 00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:24,680 goes with that sense of having to achieve because for whatever 376 00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:27,600 reason they feel they must or they're good and they feel 377 00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:28,880 encouraged. Oh, you're great. 378 00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:32,360 So we're expecting, oh, you've got another a or we'll get 379 00:22:32,360 --> 00:22:33,680 another. All of these things that you 380 00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:37,520 might say as a parent that you don't even think about where 381 00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:40,440 it's like, Oh yeah, great. Oh, she always go. 382 00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:45,880 He always gets a stars or we're expecting all of that language 383 00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:48,920 that I guess you wouldn't, you would just wouldn't think about. 384 00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:51,440 And then? The internalizing of that. 385 00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:54,800 And, and that's the thing, you might have a, a child who's 386 00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:59,120 achieving and getting very good grades, but in order to get 387 00:22:59,120 --> 00:23:02,720 there, because there is a massive expectation, the levels 388 00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:07,960 of anxiety that they have to manage to get to that goal of 389 00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:10,480 achieving is huge. And that's, again, clearly 390 00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:14,960 having an impact on maybe their friendships or how they see 391 00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:17,600 themselves because of, you know, if I don't put in the huge 392 00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:20,160 effort, maybe I'm not good enough for mum and dad, you 393 00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:22,440 know, So there is a lot of pressure there. 394 00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:25,720 And the fact that the child, a child is managing doesn't mean 395 00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:28,080 that they're managing and everything is smoothly. 396 00:23:28,120 --> 00:23:31,560 No, you know, things don't go as smoothly as we think because we 397 00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:33,640 assume that, OK, there is a good grade. 398 00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:36,480 They're very bright, they're very smart. 399 00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:38,240 They're very, you know, organised. 400 00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:42,000 And yeah, that could be true, but that doesn't mean that the 401 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:45,720 child is not very anxious whilst, you know, doing 402 00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:50,520 homework, learning, yeah, there is a lot of emotions at play, 403 00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:52,960 so. Now we have to remember the 404 00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:57,280 whole school system and the education system is based on 405 00:23:57,280 --> 00:24:00,880 grades. It's based on performing and 406 00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:07,920 learning and in a very specific way that we know most people 407 00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:09,000 know. That doesn't actually work for 408 00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:12,640 everybody, but that specific way of performing. 409 00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:15,840 And then you're graded and then you're put into, I remember 410 00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:17,480 this. So clearly you're put into 411 00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:20,480 classes depending on how well you're performing. 412 00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:27,880 So you're put into a class with a different set and all your 413 00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:32,720 friends are in the other set and they all continue those like 414 00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:34,880 peer relationships because they're in all the same lessons 415 00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:37,400 together. And you who might not be 416 00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:41,440 performing as well. Oh, and again, it's I keep using 417 00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:44,560 the term performing because it is about a performance, isn't it 418 00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:47,080 in school? And you're then in a different 419 00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:48,760 group and you're in a different set. 420 00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:52,520 And the impact that would have on a child and young person. 421 00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:54,960 And again, the narrative like even if the narrative is not 422 00:24:54,960 --> 00:25:01,040 coming from your home in school of this is really important and 423 00:25:01,120 --> 00:25:06,200 the shame when it comes to not. Absolutely doing as well. 424 00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:10,080 What you internalise then is that you're not good enough to 425 00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:14,320 be over there with your friends or the other group, that of 426 00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:18,720 individuals that seem to be very bright and able to, to manage 427 00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:21,680 and to perform right. So that alone is just OK. 428 00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:28,120 Well, you're categorising people into levels of I don't know, you 429 00:25:28,120 --> 00:25:30,960 know, intelligence if you like. That's how someone would 430 00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:33,520 internalise it, isn't it? Well, I'm not as smart as the 431 00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:38,680 earliest, clearly. And yeah, impact is, you know, 432 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:42,920 self esteem and I'm not good enough or as good as you. 433 00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:44,560 Just compare yourself to other people. 434 00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:50,840 You know, when I did, oh, I did podcasts on EHC PS: with Paul 435 00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:57,760 Stanley and he was talking about how girls especially internalise 436 00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:02,240 things and high masking autistic women or girls at that point in 437 00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:09,160 school, children seem, seem like they're doing well, good enough, 438 00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:12,440 right, performing good enough. And I remember having this 439 00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:14,920 conversation actually in reception with one of our 440 00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:20,320 parents about EHCPS and the school had said, oh, they're 441 00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:23,280 doing, they're going to come out with, you know, 2 GSCCS. 442 00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:27,800 That's great for them. And she was like, no, but my son 443 00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:31,840 can do better than that. And that might be your 444 00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:36,080 expectation, but you're saying as they're doing good enough, I 445 00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:38,880 know that my child needs more support in order to reach their 446 00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:42,800 full potential, not just do good enough. 447 00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:49,040 And I guess it comes back to those like narratives and well, 448 00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:51,120 you know, they're doing OK, They're middle, they're in the 449 00:26:51,120 --> 00:26:54,560 middle set and that's fine. And that's good enough. 450 00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:59,880 But I guess it's a balance of, you know, good enough is good 451 00:26:59,880 --> 00:27:02,280 enough, you know, if it's not worth the stress and the 452 00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:07,400 anxiety, but also parents knowing their children best and 453 00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:11,960 knowing that actually at home when we talk about things and we 454 00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:15,360 have discussions, they're clearly really able. 455 00:27:15,360 --> 00:27:17,600 And then you put them in the school context and they can't 456 00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:21,480 cope. And what unpicking what that is, 457 00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:24,560 what that means, What's going? On and that's why it's so 458 00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:26,720 important. And when we think about 459 00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:31,640 educational psychotherapy, to talk to parents and to, to hear 460 00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:33,920 all those, those things, you know, they're very able at home, 461 00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:37,120 But clearly when they're in school, something happens there 462 00:27:37,120 --> 00:27:42,760 for the child that then they can't again perform and or at 463 00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:46,800 the expected level or in a way that reflects how well they can 464 00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:49,640 do at home. So then you need to think about 465 00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:51,440 getting school. Clearly there is something about 466 00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:55,160 school and we need to unpick that and understand what it is 467 00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:59,920 in order to help this kid. Because it's it's it's 468 00:27:59,920 --> 00:28:04,160 interesting, isn't it, that someone manages in, in one area 469 00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:08,520 or in one environment like home, but they seem to struggle quite 470 00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:11,680 a bit in another environment being in school. 471 00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:13,240 And why? Why is that? 472 00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:18,880 Just as a final note, because I've, we've discussed this term 473 00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:24,840 recently in a staff training and I found it a really, I, I really 474 00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:28,760 liked, I'd never heard of neuroaffirming before and I 475 00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:30,760 really liked it when you explained it. 476 00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:34,320 And the kind of work I think we're talking about, like 477 00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:37,560 language, we've just spoken about language and internalizing 478 00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:41,320 how things are kind of what is said to you as a, as an adult, 479 00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:46,040 as a child, as a young person. Could you just explain what 480 00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:49,560 neuroaffirming is and what neuroaffirming approach 481 00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:53,480 approaches? Yeah, So newer feminists really 482 00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:59,040 considering the individual as they are with the challenges and 483 00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:02,000 their strengths, but without thinking of them as something or 484 00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:04,320 someone that needs to be fixed, right. 485 00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:08,120 So the person is who they are and they function the way they 486 00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:11,160 do and it's it's good, it's as good as anybody else. 487 00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:14,800 There is a tendency to look at the person as well. 488 00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:18,400 They clearly don't function as expected by society. 489 00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:21,960 Therefore they need to change. They need to put all the effort 490 00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:24,680 themselves to change and to manage. 491 00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:29,160 But when we think of a new reform in practice or thinking, 492 00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:31,680 we, we think quite the opposite. Well, the person, there's 493 00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:34,520 nothing wrong with the person, the person, they're fine as they 494 00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:37,880 are. Maybe as a society we need to 495 00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:42,520 change some things around so that the person can function a 496 00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:47,040 bit better. So it might be that someone like 497 00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:49,840 in, in, in classrooms, for instance, there's so many 498 00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:53,960 things, so many posters, so many colours and displays everywhere. 499 00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:57,560 And a child can feel very overwhelmed by all of that. 500 00:29:58,080 --> 00:29:59,880 But instead of telling the child, well, no, you have to 501 00:29:59,880 --> 00:30:01,880 manage. So we need to think about things 502 00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:04,440 that might help you manage being in the classroom without feeling 503 00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:09,000 so distressed or overwhelmed. Well, no, How about we reduce 504 00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:12,800 this place and the bright colours so that that person then 505 00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:17,960 is not US impacted by everything around him, right. 506 00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:21,040 So that's, that's the thinking around it. 507 00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:24,640 It's not changing the person is, is all of us making an effort so 508 00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:28,680 that the person can manage and can fraction optimally, right. 509 00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:33,760 And so Neurothyme, sorry, Neurathurm and practice then is 510 00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:37,560 thinking about expectations, for instance, right? 511 00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:40,320 And it's linked to the person and not changing them. 512 00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:43,880 But in the school setting, for example, if we're thinking or 513 00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:47,680 even in, in therapy, if we're thinking of goals for that 514 00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:52,240 individual to achieve, you know, we often say, well, say 515 00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:55,800 childhood has to in the next 6 months, he needs to be able to 516 00:30:57,000 --> 00:31:02,080 approach all the children and initiate play or conversation 517 00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:05,520 with them at least 60% of the time. 518 00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:10,720 And maybe Charlotte or Mary, whoever they are autistic. 519 00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:14,240 And we know that for an autistic child or individual, that's a 520 00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:16,000 very hard thing to do most of the time. 521 00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:19,600 So then maybe the goal could be phrased differently. 522 00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:28,040 So maybe teachers can support Mary's peers to understand her 523 00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:31,320 body language and to approach her when she seems or she looks 524 00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:34,720 like she's able to manage that interaction. 525 00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:44,200 Or teachers need to support Mary into expressing what she feels 526 00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:47,920 ready to do so as often as she needs to. 527 00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:50,160 There's there's no need to put a number to it. 528 00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:55,600 So he's just thinking about what the person can manage rather 529 00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:58,040 than what we think they should manage. 530 00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:02,000 And it's always through that neurotypical perspective, isn't 531 00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:03,760 it? This is accepted. 532 00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:06,680 This is, this is, this is the minimum that someone should be 533 00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:09,200 able to do. Well, not everybody. 534 00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:12,720 You should do that time exactly. You need to fit into that and 535 00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:15,000 you need to work very hard to be able to achieve that. 536 00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:18,400 Oh, but that's not realistic for me because of my 537 00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:21,720 neurodivergence. So what do I do then? 538 00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:24,880 Do I have to force myself to be in a position that makes me feel 539 00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:26,840 really uncomfortable or overwhelmed? 540 00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:29,760 And then I go home and I have to be indoors for three days 541 00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:33,120 because it was too much for me to manage and I need to recover. 542 00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:35,600 It just doesn't need to be that way. 543 00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:39,400 So it's for everyone to work together so that that person can 544 00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:44,280 fit more, if you like, into the neurotypical world. 545 00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:47,880 And that along is that I don't like thinking about it that way, 546 00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:51,080 right? Because again, the expectation 547 00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:52,720 is that the person needs to fit in. 548 00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:57,600 But again, I think the positive is that it's everyone's effort, 549 00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:01,120 right to make that possible and not just that particular 550 00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:05,080 individual. Going back, back to the 551 00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:09,880 executive functioning coaching and that revolves around support 552 00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:14,160 systems and putting things in place so that you can, you know, 553 00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:17,360 do be on time. For example. 554 00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:24,280 You can start a task or you know, the things that you're 555 00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:28,240 struggling with. And I guess part of that process 556 00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:32,960 of the coaching is, is that do you think about the positives 557 00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:35,080 that come with a child's strength? 558 00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:37,640 So imagine you're looking at the struggles, but you're also 559 00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:41,480 looking at the strengths of against my own experience of 560 00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:46,320 being a dyslexic person, pre reading is not my thing. 561 00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:49,280 But I can read something and take the information incredibly 562 00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:51,520 quickly. And I look at things and 563 00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:56,680 problems as a whole and in A and I look at things in a completely 564 00:33:56,680 --> 00:34:01,440 different way to other people. And that's only something I've 565 00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:05,080 learnt recently. Prior to that, when I was 566 00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:09,040 younger, it was just I, you know, Charlotte can't spell and 567 00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:15,000 she can't, she inverts her numbers and it was all the can't 568 00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:18,960 do is rather than these are the attributes that are positive 569 00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:22,040 that you have to offer with your neurodiversity. 570 00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:25,040 Yeah, absolutely. So in, in coaching, we will 571 00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:27,600 think, OK, what's worked? What have you done before that's 572 00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:30,520 worked? How can you use your strength to 573 00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:34,320 help yourself manage these other aspects, whether it's your 574 00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:39,360 creativity or your playfulness, even, you know, if you can make 575 00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:42,520 a task, be playful for yourself and that's something that's 576 00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:45,440 going to help you manage and, and follow those steps, then do 577 00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:47,440 it. If it's whatever works for the 578 00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:49,840 individual, but of course, taking into account their 579 00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:53,719 strengths and what they're good at to then think about, OK, 580 00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:58,480 let's use that to your advantage and that might then help you, 581 00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:03,400 you know, improve other areas. It's just about trying and being 582 00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:08,160 consistent with executive function coaching because we 583 00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:11,720 know that these skills, these executive functions can improve 584 00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:17,120 over time, but only if we're consistent and we make new 585 00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:21,280 habits, right? So when we consistently try and 586 00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:24,880 strategy, strategy for a while, that will become a habit. 587 00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:29,080 And that's when we we see that improvement in that particular 588 00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:31,880 executive function challenge. And when something becomes a 589 00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:34,360 habit, you don't even think about doing it right because it 590 00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:37,880 comes naturally. So that's why consistency is 591 00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:40,560 key. And for young, younger kids, we 592 00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:46,360 really need the parents to be the consistent reminder and help 593 00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:50,320 her so that they can they can do and they can put things in 594 00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:51,520 practice. Yeah. 595 00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:54,840 So it's finding what works for us because what works for you 596 00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:57,120 might not work for me. And we're very different 597 00:35:57,120 --> 00:36:01,840 individuals, isn't it? We hope you've enjoyed today's 598 00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:03,560 episode. And found it helpful. 599 00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:06,680 If you know a family who might want to learn more about 600 00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:10,240 educational psychotherapy, or your own child is finding school 601 00:36:10,240 --> 00:36:13,760 stressful or overwhelming, this could make a real difference. 602 00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:16,640 Please share this episode with someone who might benefit. 603 00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:20,600 And if you'd like to explore how we can support your child, get 604 00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:22,320 in touch with us at the well-being Hub. 605 00:36:22,720 --> 00:36:25,640 We'd love to talk to you about how we can support you and your 606 00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:27,520 family. Thanks for listening.