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Kyodo and Welcome to Swim Chats,
a podcast about swimming. 

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I'm Shona Riddell, a writer and 
swimmer from Wellington Altero 

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in New Zealand. 
For each episode, I talk to a 

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different guest from our global 
swim community. 

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miss an episode. 

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review on Apple Podcasts, which 
helps other people discover it. 

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To find out more, visit 
patreon.com Swim Chats. 

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There's a link in the episode 
description. 

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Nicola, welcome to Swim chat. 
So it's great to have you on the

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podcast. 
It's lovely to be here. 

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I'm looking forward to this 
chat. 

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I think we've got several 
overlapping interests, Swimming 

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being one of them, obviously. 
First, congratulations on your 

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beautiful book. 
I I picked up a copy when it was

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published. 
Was it last year like last year?

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November, October last year, I 
think it was. 

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Yeah, I think I I bought it for 
myself as an early Christmas 

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present. 
Lovely. 

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We like that, yeah. 
So this if if this were a video 

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podcast, I would hold it up, but
it's an audio podcast. 

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So I will read the title. 
It's called jump in an insiders 

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guide to New Zealand best 
beaches, lakes, rivers, pools 

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and Hot Springs. 
And it's Yep, sorry, what? 

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Were you gonna say no? 
It's just. 

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It's the one. 
Well done. 

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Oh. 
Yeah, absolutely. 

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And, and it's full of beautiful 
photos, all, all sorts of great 

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swimming spots around the 
country. 

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And I saw that it's just being 
released in the US and Canada as

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well. 
So that's exciting. 

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Yeah, that was very exciting 
news. 

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Yeah. 
And it makes sense, I think, 

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especially because, you know, my
writing, I really specialize in 

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New Zealand stories, so 
something that I never expected 

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to happen. 
International market. 

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Nice. 
Yeah, really cool. 

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Makes sense because a people 
come to New Zealand so they will

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want to know where to swim. 
But also a lot of people are 

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armchair travellers, right? 
That's it. 

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That's and they want pictures of
places. 

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I had this really amazing 
message from a guy on my work 

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social media and he's an English
guy living in New York. 

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And it was the middle of summer 
here and he and his partner had 

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just been to New Zealand on 
holiday and they'd spent I think

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3 or 4 weeks just traveling 
around doing a lot of swimming. 

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And he'd picked up the book at 
the airport on on his way home, 

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and he sent me a photo of sort 
of snowy New York out the window

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and was like, it's your fault. 
We're planning a trip to come 

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back. 
That's awesome. 

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That's so nice to hear from 
readers, isn't it? 

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 
Otherwise, sometimes you feel 

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like you're writing to a, you 
know, a quiet. 

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Yeah. 
And I think. 

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People and you don't know what 
people are thinking. 

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That's it. 
And I think, you know, you kind 

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of, I work away in my in my Home
Office and, and oftentimes the 

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only people you hear from are 
grumpy. 

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Yeah. 
You know, So it's really, you 

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know, getting that positive 
feedback. 

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It's been so lovely. 
That's really nice. 

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Especially with especially with 
the because you know, I've 

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written quite a lot, but with 
this book, especially because 

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it's such an important swimming 
such an important part of my 

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life that they, they felt like 
there was just a lot more on 

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this for for me that people 
liked it. 

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Yeah, yeah, a personal thing. 
Yeah, totally, totally. 

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It took the publisher about four
or five years to convince me to 

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write it. 
Oh, well, yeah. 

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I was going to ask you how the 
book came about. 

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Was it so? 
Was it your publisher's idea, or

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was it your idea? 
Yeah. 

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I mean, I'd sort of been 
thinking about it, but then 

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like, I would go, Oh no, that's 
work. 

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I'm not going to know. 
And then Alex, the publisher, 

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who is also a swimmer, just did 
his first ringy Toto crossing in

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the weekend, which was pretty 
cool. 

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He basically he'd been asking me
and asking me and I kept saying 

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no, no, no, swimming is my not 
work thing. 

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And I went in for a meeting with
him one day about something else

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and he said, ah, publishing 
committee have approved this. 

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And he brought out some 
beautiful like, sample spreads 

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and I was like, oh, they look 
good. 

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And and he said, yeah, well, if 
you don't wanna do it, I'll get 

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someone else. 
And I just looked him. 

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See, you bastard. 
Putting you on the spot? 

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Yeah. 
It's like, of course I'm gonna 

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do it. 
I don't know. 

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I was like, if I can't let 
anyone else do it, it's. 

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Your topic, Yeah. 
And as I was thinking, like, it 

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sounds like a dream assignment 
to, you know, swim and write and

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do a bit of travel, possibly 
around the country. 

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But I imagine behind the scenes 
there are also a lot of 

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logistics to manage, like, like 
the travel and the weather and 

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access to some waterways. 
And the rest of your life was 

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like, yeah. 
It was quite funny because when 

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I agreed to do it, I just sat 
down and made a big list of 

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because I mean, I've come all, 
all my life pretty much. 

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So I kind of made a big list of 
I, I usually work like with 

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something like this. 
I had, I had a map, the North 

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Island map of the South Island 
and plotted on them all the 

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places I'd already swam and 
what, you know, whether I 

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thought that they were, were 
goers and, you know, kind of had

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this list. 
And then I, that was quite handy

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because then I've got, OK, well,
these are places I need to go 

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because I haven't swam in those 
areas. 

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So in quite, I mean, that's the 
great thing about the swimming 

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community as I've got friends 
all over the country. 

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So I could just go, Hey, I'm 
going such and such. 

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We actually, you know, so that 
was a really, that was a cool 

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thing. 
There's quite a lot of photos of

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lovely places with no people in 
them because I was swimming in 

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them in like September. 
So that was, that was kind of 

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fun. 
But yeah, it was I think 

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someone, I think the editor said
to me, Sarah said to me, look, 

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one of the things she loved 
about the book is because it 

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feels like it's a community 
thing. 

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And I think it really was like, 
you know, so many of my friends 

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came with me on on little 
missions to go and check out 

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places. 
And I'm incredibly lucky to have

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some friends who are amazing 
photographers. 

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And everyone just really got 
excited about it, which and it 

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was so much like we had so much.
There was a lot of work. 

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There was a lot of logistics. 
There was a lot of going, OK, 

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can I put that in? 
Is there a few places I went to 

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and just went? 
No, But you know, the, the my, 

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you know, when I look at it now,
I sort of think, Oh yeah, I went

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there with that friend or, you 
know, so it was just, yeah, we, 

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we just had a lot of fun. 
That's cool. 

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Swimming really brings people 
together, doesn't it? 

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Yeah, yeah. 
And The funny thing about it is 

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that one of the things that I 
kind of really loved when I got 

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into doing more events and stuff
is that it's kind of such an 

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introvert sport at the same 
time, you know, where you kind 

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of chat on the start line, then 
you just get out there and talk 

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to very few people. 
Well, yeah. 

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That's definitely part of what I
like about it. 

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Yeah. 
Social and alone time, isn't it?

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Yeah. 
Yeah, yeah, my, I mean, one of 

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my friends who I swam with in 
the early years was proud of me 

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when I did my first five Bridges
River swim without stopping to 

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chat to any of the people on 
water support. 

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You're just focused, but it's, I
think that I don't know, you 

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know, that that community around
it is, is just such a cool one. 

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It's so important. 
It's such a big part of it. 

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Yeah. 
Yeah. 

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And I really like with the book,
how, you know, you, you're sort 

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of profiling each swim spot and 
you've got the details about, 

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you know, whether you can park 
like the the logistical site, 

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you know, can I bring dogs? 
Can I bring kids? 

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But also like your description 
really gives a feel for what 

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it's like to arrive there 
because that's, that's part of 

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it as well. 
Right before you get in, just 

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seeing it because there's such 
beautiful spots. 

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Yeah. 
And and practical information on

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even just how to get there, 
because they're not always easy 

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to find. 
Right, that's it. 

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I think I sort of tried to, 
because there were a few places 

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that I really wanted to put in 
and then I, I kind of thought, 

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how do I even explain how to get
there? 

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And I thought, well, if I can't 
explain it, then people are 

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going to. 
I don't want people getting lost

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and, and like, there's a certain
amount of having to be aware of 

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that space and how many people 
can access it. 

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So, you know, I made sure that 
there's kind of ample parking 

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and, and that that they're not 
on big because he was like, what

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was the one? 
There was one in Fiordland that 

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I really want to include. 
And then I thought, man, people 

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aren't going to trick up that 
mess of big hill. 

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You know, I wanted to make it 
accessible, as accessible to as 

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many people as possible. 
Yeah. 

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So I think that that kind of 
came into it. 

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You know, one of my favorite 
swimming holes, which is a top 

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secret one, I was like, I can't 
because it's a, you know, it's a

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high country walk across 
pedicure pedicures. 

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You just can't. 
So some might accuse me of 

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gatekeeping on that one, but. 
Is there is there potential for 

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a sequel like had had to access 
but rewarding swim spots? 

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Oh, there's a couple of people 
I've just said help me out, I'll

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tell you. 
Was there anything in particular

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that surprised you when you were
writing the book? 

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Like were there any unexpected 
swim experiences? 

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So many oh really so many like 
there were places that that I 

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didn't expect anything of there 
was in the going across on 

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state. 
Oh, what's the, the main road to

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get between Gisborne and the 
ports Key And we, we were going 

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along the river and I've been 
told about a couple of like on 

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the main road there a couple of 
spots on the river and we 

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couldn't find them. 
So we pulled into this little 

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dock campsite where there was a 
stream that came down and it was

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just, it's like a little stream 
and goodness knows the state of 

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it now after all the storms. 
But it's just this little 

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stream. 
There was a historic bridge at 

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the end of it. 
And anyone that knows me knows 

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I'm a nerd for a historic 
bridge. 

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But this, but this, you could 
just hop in and kind of the, 

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the, the stream would just take 
you down and then you'd hop out 

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and walk back up. 
And I must have done it 5 or 6 

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times. 
And it was just, you know, 

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sometimes you just have a, a 
swim that's kind of the, it was 

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a really warm day. 
We were on quite a long drive 

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and it just was perfect. 
Like it was just really perfect.

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And and you know, and any other 
day that might not those that 

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that selection of kind of things
might not have happened and it 

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might not have been, but man, it
was just so meant. 

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Exactly right for that day. 
Yeah, we had a couple of times 

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where we had a triumph in the 
face of adversity and me and my 

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friend Theo went down to 
Taranaki for a weekend and just 

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lots of things conspired against
us, including the weather, Rd. 

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closures and the all sorts of 
things in. 

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I've been told about a lake and 
we drove away up there and there

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was just jet skis everywhere and
I was like, I'm not getting in. 

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It was beautiful, but I was just
like, Nah. 

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And then we went into beautiful 
Kenna Design store in New 

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Plymouth and I just got chatting
to the woman in there and she 

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said, Oh, have you been to the 
why fucker E Who river? 

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And I was like, I don't even 
know where that is. 

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And she said, oh, well, you go 
up to Tupac E, which is this 

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amazing to putty. 
Sorry, amazing heritage 

224
00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:24,560
homestead, which is owned by the
council and is just like arts 

225
00:12:24,560 --> 00:12:28,960
and crafts, like 1930s absolute 
with these beautiful, beautiful 

226
00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:32,440
grounds and and there's a 
swimming hole just at the bottom

227
00:12:32,440 --> 00:12:35,640
of the ground. 
So we explored the grounds then 

228
00:12:35,640 --> 00:12:37,520
and there's like free barbecues 
there. 

229
00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:42,800
And like it just was this 
incredible spot that had I not 

230
00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:45,760
just sort of said to the woman 
in the shop, Hey, where would 

231
00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:48,040
you, you know, as a local, where
would you recommend? 

232
00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:51,240
Like just, it was just so 
gorgeous. 

233
00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:54,600
So it was like, you know, lots 
of that, just those sort of 

234
00:12:56,280 --> 00:12:58,360
little meant to be moments, I 
guess. 

235
00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:02,240
And that local knowledge that 
yeah, yeah, really didn't know 

236
00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:03,360
about it otherwise. 
Right. 

237
00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:06,240
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. 
Really important. 

238
00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:10,000
On the flip side of that, we 
also, I had my friend Jane who 

239
00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:13,560
lives in Omaru, We went down to 
stayed with her. 

240
00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:19,440
We did a day where we went from 
Omaru to Fairly and we swear 

241
00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:25,320
that was our record 7 swims in a
day and then she took me out to 

242
00:13:25,320 --> 00:13:26,080
this. 
Amazing. 

243
00:13:26,680 --> 00:13:31,720
It was such a cool swimming hole
out on the Kakanuri River. 

244
00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:35,400
Beautiful everything you would 
want in a sort of an hotel. 

245
00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:38,360
Had the lovely big shift rocks 
and they were really warm and 

246
00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:40,640
there was kids playing and it 
was just gorgeous. 

247
00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:44,160
And then when I came home to 
write about it, it's just it 

248
00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:48,000
are, you know, not really 
recommended for swimming because

249
00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:51,440
one of the South Island's 
biggest seagull colonies list 

250
00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:59,400
nests just upstream. 
So I was like, I think. 

251
00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:02,960
It's good you didn't hear that 
any earlier. 

252
00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:06,200
I know, I know, I know. 
But it was, it was, you know, 

253
00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:09,160
when I found it, by that stage 
it was clear that I hadn't got 

254
00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:11,600
sick and we'd had a nice time. 
So you know. 

255
00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:17,840
You mentioned earlier that 
you're, you live in Auckland 

256
00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:22,680
now, so and the water there sort
of relatively speaking is, is 

257
00:14:22,680 --> 00:14:26,000
fairly mild. 
How do you find swimming in the 

258
00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:31,880
colder parts of the country? 
Well, the benefit of, of for me 

259
00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:33,400
is the fact that I'm from 
Invercargill. 

260
00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:38,720
So the, I've swam year round at 
Auckland for the last, I don't 

261
00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:44,480
know, probably 8 or 10 years. 
I suppose last couple of years 

262
00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:48,600
I've just swam skins year round,
but the water doesn't get down 

263
00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:52,760
to sort of, I don't know, it 
probably gets down to 12 or 13. 

264
00:14:53,320 --> 00:14:57,280
So it's, you know, it's 
manageable When, when where I 

265
00:14:57,280 --> 00:14:59,680
grew up, I don't know that it 
ever got over trouble. 

266
00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:07,960
Very different, yeah. 
Yeah, So, you know, I grew up we

267
00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:12,440
we used to bike out to order to 
beach after school and and swim.

268
00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:16,800
And I grew up, as, you know, my 
dad's family, all from Central 

269
00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:20,000
Otago. 
So, you know, it was just that 

270
00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:23,320
summers, we would just be in the
river and the lake or in the 

271
00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:26,800
Creek in the dam or wherever. 
You know, I was just a kid that 

272
00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:28,280
would find the water and get in 
it. 

273
00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:32,120
This. 
I realise now that there's quite

274
00:15:32,120 --> 00:15:35,680
a lot of childhood photos of me 
just looking like I've fallen in

275
00:15:35,680 --> 00:15:40,680
the water and miserable. 
Yeah, yeah, just. 

276
00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:42,960
Yeah. 
My parents used to always have 

277
00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:45,240
extra clothes in the car because
they knew I'd do it. 

278
00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:49,640
I were prepared. 
So it's on the cold. 

279
00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:53,600
You know, the cold water doesn't
really worry me too much. 

280
00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:57,720
I was down in Monica when it was
that last August and we went for

281
00:15:57,720 --> 00:16:01,040
a walk with, I have two good 
friends called Jane, Omaru Jane 

282
00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:04,080
and Monica. 
Jane and I was out from walk 

283
00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:08,200
with Jane there and, you know, 
accidentally had my togs on and 

284
00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:11,280
hopped in the river and had a 
swim with the, you know, snow on

285
00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:15,800
the mountains and beautiful. 
Would be beautiful yeah I 

286
00:16:15,800 --> 00:16:19,720
noticed that you're included as 
at Saint Bethan's and yes we 

287
00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:23,680
like New Zealand ice swimming 
chickens stepping in there are a

288
00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:27,040
few Wellingtonians who like to 
go down each year and I. 

289
00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:34,360
I'm I'm I can, I'm not I'm in 
all of them that can get in and 

290
00:16:34,360 --> 00:16:38,160
do ice miles and things like I 
get in, fart about and get out 

291
00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:39,280
again. 
So it's. 

292
00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:41,120
Me too. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

293
00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:43,160
But Blue Lakes absolutely like 
beautiful. 

294
00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:46,760
We we used to go there a lot 
when we were kids have. 

295
00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:50,520
A and the and the introduction 
to the book, you talk a bit 

296
00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:53,880
about your own swimming and you 
mentioned learning to swim or 

297
00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:56,920
having lessons with a couple 
called Mr. and Missus Jones. 

298
00:16:57,880 --> 00:17:00,880
To my interest, because you 
describe them as I always have 

299
00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:04,040
trouble with this word, but 
inimitable and intimidating 

300
00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:08,240
alliteration of that, you tell 
me a bit more about them. 

301
00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:15,480
They so anyone I feel like 
there's probably people with a 

302
00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:19,359
40 year range range from Inver 
cargo that will go Mr. Oh yeah, 

303
00:17:19,359 --> 00:17:21,800
Mr. and Mrs. Jones. 
Like I feel like they were 

304
00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:23,960
ancient when they taught me and 
they're probably like in their 

305
00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:26,800
40s. 
Embarrassing, but they were 

306
00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:29,120
yeah. 
They just. 

307
00:17:29,120 --> 00:17:33,640
They took lessons. 
I would have been five, I think,

308
00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:36,040
when I started doing lessons 
with them at Conan St. 

309
00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:39,720
Pool and Invercargill, which no 
longer exists, having been 

310
00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:43,560
replaced by the very Flash 
Splash Palace or Splash Planet 

311
00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:48,240
or whatever it's called. 
So Connor St. was like a real 

312
00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:51,680
old school pole and I spent 
years. 

313
00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:54,680
He is there because I played 
water polo for a while. 

314
00:17:55,360 --> 00:17:59,080
But they were just, they were an
older couple and I think Mrs. 

315
00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:00,600
Jones would teach the little 
ease. 

316
00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:03,080
And then you kind of graduated 
to Mr. Jones. 

317
00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:06,520
And in my head he was quite a 
almost slightly military, but I 

318
00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:08,880
he probably wasn't. 
But that was kind of in my 

319
00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:11,320
brain. 
But, but they were really, they 

320
00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:17,320
were strict, but, but really, I 
don't know, quite amazing, 

321
00:18:17,320 --> 00:18:20,760
amazing teachers, amazing 
teachers. 

322
00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:23,360
And I think, yeah, there'll be, 
there'll be lots and lots of 

323
00:18:23,360 --> 00:18:27,280
Indigago people who remember 
them, yeah, fondly or otherwise,

324
00:18:27,280 --> 00:18:30,080
because they were a bit scary. 
So they have a legacy. 

325
00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:32,440
Absolutely. 
Absolutely. 

326
00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:35,720
And the book. 
Also includes health and safety 

327
00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:38,600
advice like you know, what if 
you get stung by a jellyfish? 

328
00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:41,960
And so curious to know which you
know does happen. 

329
00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:48,040
I was curious to know if you've 
had any sort of encounters with 

330
00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:51,440
marine life, either welcome 
encounters or otherwise that 

331
00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:52,000
you. 
Both. 

332
00:18:54,040 --> 00:18:56,080
I'm like the queen of the 
Medusas. 

333
00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:58,960
Like my friends give me heaps 
because if they are jellyfish 

334
00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:00,520
they will find me and they will 
sting me. 

335
00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:01,280
Oh. 
No. 

336
00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:04,400
Actually, I think I'm, I'm 
probably just more sensitive to 

337
00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:07,240
them than anybody else. 
So I've had some absolute 

338
00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:12,160
shockers. 
I had one day I got, I got stung

339
00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:17,480
in my mouth like on the inside 
of my lower lip. 

340
00:19:18,120 --> 00:19:21,600
So I took some antihistamines, 
came home, it was fine. 

341
00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:24,400
Had antihistamine, went to bed, 
woke up the next morning and I 

342
00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:28,000
looked like I had lip fillers. 
It was the funniest thing. 

343
00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:31,560
It was the funniest thing. 
So then like every now and then 

344
00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:33,800
I'll show people pictures and 
say, I remember that time I got 

345
00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:35,760
lip fillers and people who 
don't, who don't know me that 

346
00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:42,360
well alike. 
So, yeah, jellyfish and I, yeah,

347
00:19:42,360 --> 00:19:46,880
we're not really friends, but 
I've like, that's one of the 

348
00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:50,320
things about swimming and like 
take up on one of the Hideki 

349
00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:53,960
Gulf is just so the marine life 
is amazing. 

350
00:19:54,360 --> 00:19:57,640
The marine life is amazing. 
And I mean, we've had a couple 

351
00:19:57,640 --> 00:20:01,640
of like the 2023 floods 
particularly have really damaged

352
00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:05,800
the, the reefs like where I swam
on the North Shore beaches. 

353
00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:11,040
But you know, I can go out. 
People that know my my 

354
00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:14,960
Instagram, I have a an ongoing 
series called shit photos of 

355
00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:19,200
Stingrays of of well, well 
camouflaged thin rays 'cause I 

356
00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:20,920
like, I'm just obsessed with 
them. 

357
00:20:21,360 --> 00:20:28,200
So like, you know, Stingrays, 
beautiful, like octopus, just 

358
00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:32,600
lots of fish, lots of I'm kind 
of a bit obsessed with sea 

359
00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:35,600
slugs, so I'm always taking 
photos of them and you know, 

360
00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:40,800
just really, really cool. 
I've had a couple of really cool

361
00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:44,160
dolphin encounters which have 
been amazing. 

362
00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:49,800
One, one day I was going out for
a swim with a friend and, and I 

363
00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:52,680
for some reason I looked, I was 
at Milford Beach and looked 

364
00:20:52,680 --> 00:20:54,800
around and I could see all these
people standing on the beach 

365
00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:56,760
over at Caster Bay and couldn't 
work out what was going on. 

366
00:20:56,760 --> 00:20:59,760
And there was 3 orca had come in
and they were, they were 

367
00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:02,920
teaching the, the calf to, to 
hunt the Stingray. 

368
00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:04,800
So we, I just stayed in and 
watched them. 

369
00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:07,440
And thankfully I had seen them 
because I would have crossed 

370
00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:10,120
tracks with them as I was 
heading out to the boy line 

371
00:21:10,120 --> 00:21:13,360
otherwise. 
So yeah, like just really 

372
00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:17,920
amazing. 
I think one of the good things 

373
00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:21,120
about growing up down South, 
like as I was saying, we used to

374
00:21:21,120 --> 00:21:23,920
swim out already all the time 
and we would jump in our bikes 

375
00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:26,720
after school and go out there. 
And there was what we thought, 

376
00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:30,520
what I believed to be until 
embarrassingly recently, 

377
00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:32,520
porpoises that we would swim 
with. 

378
00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:36,200
And I found out since that the 
Pahu, the Hector's dolphins. 

379
00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:42,360
But we, we were reasonably, I 
mean, we were sensible, but 

380
00:21:42,360 --> 00:21:45,920
reasonably fearless because I 
mean, you know, the reality of 

381
00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:48,520
growing up down there is that, 
you know, that that off Stewart 

382
00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:51,320
Island is one of the big great 
white shark breeding grounds. 

383
00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:54,240
You know. 
So we kind of, and I think 

384
00:21:54,360 --> 00:21:58,680
having grown up with this, 
whether it's a respect or an 

385
00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:02,360
understanding, I don't know. 
But I'm quite lucky because I am

386
00:22:02,360 --> 00:22:06,840
firmly in that Jaws generation. 
But I've never what I mean, I've

387
00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:11,320
been, I'm sensible, but I I've 
never been worried about sharks.

388
00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:15,040
I've seen them a couple of times
when I've been like Epic Island,

389
00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:16,960
which is, you know, marine 
reserves. 

390
00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:20,600
So there's so much food out 
there that, you know, they're in

391
00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:24,080
their little ones. 
And then I've seen them shark 

392
00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:26,960
Ellie down at Mount Monganui. 
But you know, the clues and the 

393
00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:28,360
name there. 
So yeah, that's. 

394
00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:32,280
Right. 
It's it's That makes sense. 

395
00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:37,360
Good friend who I swam with and 
she's she's quite petrified of 

396
00:22:37,360 --> 00:22:38,840
them. 
And we were going up to do the 

397
00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:44,480
Pi. 
He had a Russell swim with the 

398
00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:46,480
ocean swim series. 
We were driving and she started 

399
00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:50,200
talking to me about she was 
sharks and would there be sharks

400
00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:52,240
and all this. 
And she's a real speedster on my

401
00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:54,920
in a match. 
They come like they wouldn't get

402
00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:56,320
a Kai out of her if they caught 
her. 

403
00:22:56,640 --> 00:22:59,200
But she was terribly concerned 
about it. 

404
00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:00,680
And I thought I'm going to be 
helpful here. 

405
00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:06,680
And I said, look Ty, more people
get, you know, hurt or killed by

406
00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:12,160
cows every year than sharks. 
She's without even breathing. 

407
00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:14,400
She looked at me and went great.
Now I'm scared of cows too so. 

408
00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:23,720
Add it to the list. 
But I think. 

409
00:23:24,360 --> 00:23:27,760
It makes sense that, you know, 
you grew up getting an open 

410
00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:29,400
water since you were a very 
young age. 

411
00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:30,960
Yeah. 
It makes sense that it would 

412
00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:34,960
just be sort of part of part of 
life and a healthy respect for 

413
00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:36,280
the marine life. 
Absolutely. 

414
00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:39,760
You know, there are things that 
I'd, I'd be frightened if I saw 

415
00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:41,720
them, you know, when I was in 
the supermarket. 

416
00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:44,240
But you see them in the sea. 
It's like that's where they 

417
00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:46,560
live. 
As my swim coach Bob says, 

418
00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:49,520
that's their home, yeah. 
Exactly, exactly. 

419
00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:53,000
I've always worked on the I've 
had this mantra for a long time 

420
00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:55,320
that there's more to fear from 
the sharks on the land than the 

421
00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:57,440
ones in the sea. 
Very true. 

422
00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:01,960
Good metro. 
So when I when I first bought 

423
00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:04,760
the book, I turned straight to 
the pages about the Wellington 

424
00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:08,000
beaches because I wondered just 
which ones you'd included and, 

425
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:09,640
you know, whether I agreed with 
your choices. 

426
00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:11,080
No. 
Yeah, no, no. 

427
00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:14,280
Wrong voices. 
But, you know, just out of 

428
00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:16,920
curiosity. 
And I was very happy that you 

429
00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:19,440
included scorching bakers. 
It's one of my local bakers. 

430
00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:21,400
Magic. 
It's magic. 

431
00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:25,040
And days by was the other one. 
Yeah, yeah. 

432
00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:28,880
When I lived in Wellington, I 
just used to love getting on 

433
00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:32,080
that ferry. 
And especially if because I I 

434
00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:36,280
used to, I worked in government 
departments and used to work 

435
00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:38,320
weekends and stuff and sometimes
you'd get days off during the 

436
00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:41,360
week. 
And it was, I mean, it sounds 

437
00:24:41,360 --> 00:24:43,520
terrible, but God, I used to 
love getting on the ferry and 

438
00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:45,680
going over there when I knew 
everyone else was at work. 

439
00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:51,600
That makes you appreciate, you 
know. 

440
00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:55,040
Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. 
It's the beast. 

441
00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:58,600
So were they sort of two of your
favorite swim spots here? 

442
00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:01,480
Did you swim at other places 
that you like? 

443
00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:05,880
Yeah, I used to swim around. 
Oh, I can't think what it was 

444
00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:09,920
called around from Lyell Bay. 
When you're going around the 

445
00:25:10,120 --> 00:25:14,040
bays, there's a little beach 
just around there called, is it 

446
00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:16,360
not, Elizabeth Bay? 
I can't remember the name of 

447
00:25:16,360 --> 00:25:17,440
that. 
It's terrible. 

448
00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:19,480
Princess Bay. 
Princess Bay, that's it. 

449
00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:23,880
I knew it was something royal. 
We got the yeah, I'd around 

450
00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:25,600
there. 
I love Lyle Bay. 

451
00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:28,360
I've got good friends that live 
up on the hill over the over 

452
00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:30,520
around there. 
So you know, there's something, 

453
00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:35,000
you know, I don't know, the 
swimming and and having planes 

454
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:37,960
go over here is pretty cool. 
It is and you can see in the 

455
00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:40,200
winter you can see the snow in 
the mountains over on the South 

456
00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:42,520
side, London, you can feel a 
little bit tough getting. 

457
00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:45,200
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
I don't know, like Wellington, I

458
00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:48,560
think there's just so many great
spots. 

459
00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:51,200
You know, it's a bit like 
Auckland where you kind of just 

460
00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:55,320
you can take your pick. 
Just amazing. 

461
00:25:55,840 --> 00:26:00,360
Yeah, yeah. 
Hard to hard to pin down really.

462
00:26:02,360 --> 00:26:04,800
You mentioned in Auckland that 
you like to swim in the 

463
00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:08,280
hierarchy Gulf is that, Is that 
sort of close to where you live?

464
00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:10,440
Is that? 
Yeah, I'm, I live on the North 

465
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:13,960
Shore, so it's about from here 
to It's funny. 

466
00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:18,720
I swim Saturday mornings with a 
friend she loves. 

467
00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:20,560
She always swims to Takapuna 
because she comes over the 

468
00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:23,440
bridge. 
And but if I'm, if I'm with, 

469
00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:26,960
I've got sort of a bunch of us 
that have swum together for 

470
00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:30,560
years, used to be on Tuesdays 
and then, you know, so one 

471
00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:32,720
afternoon a week, we tend to go 
for a swim and then go and have 

472
00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:35,840
a beer. 
So we up at Browns Bay or 

473
00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:38,640
Waiake. 
But for myself, I'll swim at 

474
00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:43,480
Milford or Campbell's Bay and 
it's about, I don't know, a 10 

475
00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:46,640
minute drive from home. 
I suppose so. 

476
00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:48,680
And I think I have this funny 
thing. 

477
00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:53,880
I have a very, the West Coast 
beaches up here. 

478
00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:59,920
I, I, I can't read them. 
I don't, I don't understand what

479
00:26:59,920 --> 00:27:02,280
the water, what I don't 
understand the water. 

480
00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:05,560
That's why. 
So, yeah, I, I'm quite 

481
00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:09,360
intimidated by them. 
So I tend to, if I, if I have 

482
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:13,280
friends here from overseas or I 
quite often will take them out 

483
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:17,520
to Lake Wanamu, which is by 
taking a like Bethel's Beach, 

484
00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:21,240
but it's a freshwater lake in 
the dune system and it's just 

485
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:23,560
magnificent. 
Oh well, that would be nice. 

486
00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:25,680
I don't know about that place. 
It's amazing. 

487
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:28,440
It's you sort of walk up, you 
can walk up over the sand dunes 

488
00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:31,360
or up the Creek and it's about, 
I don't know, a couple of KS, I 

489
00:27:31,360 --> 00:27:34,040
suppose, but just the walks, 
really fun. 

490
00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:37,360
And then there's a jetty. 
You can either sort of get in 

491
00:27:37,360 --> 00:27:40,680
from down on the from the dunes 
or you can go off, jump off the 

492
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:42,760
jetty. 
It's about kilometer long, I 

493
00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:43,840
suppose. 
It's gorgeous. 

494
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:46,800
Oh, lovely. 
And you mentioned earlier that 

495
00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:50,080
you've done some of the ocean 
swim series around the country. 

496
00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:53,800
Are you obviously swimming a few
good few kilometres? 

497
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:57,280
No, I haven't been the last. 
Well, the last couple of summers

498
00:27:57,280 --> 00:27:58,680
I haven't. 
But yeah, I tend to. 

499
00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:02,720
I think I've done, I don't know.
I've done pretty much all the 

500
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:04,920
all the different, the Ocean 
Swim series ones. 

501
00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:07,560
I just volunteered at the Rainy 
Swim on the weekend. 

502
00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:11,480
It was good fun. 
And so you have done all of 

503
00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:15,920
those at Rainy Toto and I really
love the river swim. 

504
00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:20,040
So there's two that people might
not know about the the Hooker 

505
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:24,600
and Topo, which is just so 
beautiful. 

506
00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:30,640
And the five bridges in 
Hamilton, which is a 7.2 river 

507
00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:32,840
swim, but it's it's equivalent 
to about 3K. 

508
00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:35,040
And I think I've done both of 
those. 

509
00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:39,120
I mean, I know that the five 
bridges I've done 12/11 or 12 

510
00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:42,040
times, I think so, yeah. 
So I mean. 

511
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:45,320
Yeah, I have some friends who 
have done them and I know the 

512
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:47,280
Hooker River one sells. 
Out really fast. 

513
00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:49,360
Yeah, it does. 
It does because it's so. 

514
00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:52,000
It's just so gorgeous. 
And it's so. 

515
00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:54,920
Gorgeous. 
How does it feel being sort of 

516
00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:57,840
pulled by the current? 
Like, is it exhilarating? 

517
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:00,040
I love it. 
There's one point where you're 

518
00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:02,920
quite shallow and, and because 
the water's so clear and there's

519
00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:07,640
stones on the bottom and most of
the time you, the bottom's quite

520
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:10,560
kind of indistinct. 
But when you hit these stones, 

521
00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:13,920
and you probably, I don't know 
how deep it is at the time, but 

522
00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:16,760
the water's so clear, the stones
underneath you and you, it's 

523
00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:18,960
only at that point where you 
realize just how fast you're 

524
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:21,000
going. 
Remember the first time I did 

525
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:23,680
it, I thought, oh, this must be 
what those normal people like, 

526
00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:26,640
those speedy people must be like
them all the time. 

527
00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:30,840
Just that. 
Feeling of cursing. 

528
00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:34,120
Yeah, I don't think with the 
river swims, you really don't 

529
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:36,400
realize when you're doing it. 
You kind of. 

530
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:39,640
You have moments where you 
recognize how fast you're going,

531
00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:42,040
but most of the time you just 
feel like you're swimming at 

532
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:46,720
normal speed. 
There's so much fun so far. 

533
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:50,320
Do you have like a bucket list 
of of swims that you would like 

534
00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:52,360
to? 
Do I've got, Yeah, I've got, 

535
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:57,480
yeah, there's a few places in 
New Zealand I still need to take

536
00:29:57,480 --> 00:29:59,320
off. 
I really want to swim in the 

537
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:04,720
there's a lake on an island in 
Lake Wanica and I'm, I'm all 

538
00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:06,440
about that. 
I'd really want to get over to 

539
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:09,040
that because I like the idea of 
swimming in a lake on an island 

540
00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:13,280
and a lake. 
Is that the Ruby Island one? 

541
00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:16,880
Or no, I can't remember the name
of the art. 

542
00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:18,680
Yeah, I'd love to do that Ruby 
swim, actually. 

543
00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:23,320
Yeah, I'd love to do that. 
There's quite a few. 

544
00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:27,160
The there's one really tiny fun 
that's supposed that I've heard 

545
00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:32,480
is really amazing. 
So yeah, a lot of like in terms 

546
00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:35,040
of those ones. 
And I would love to. 

547
00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:39,760
I've done a few overseas swims. 
I would love to do the one of 

548
00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:45,680
the the my brain's gone one of 
those ones in Turkey the the 

549
00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:47,440
data now so. 
Now that's one trick. 

550
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:51,160
The Bosphorus, so you know, but 
I need to get a bit fitter for 

551
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:53,560
that. 
I read somewhere that you've 

552
00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:57,720
done the Summer Swim series and.
I was an OG. 

553
00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:00,960
Yeah, I I took a couple of 
episodes ago. 

554
00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:03,840
Oh yeah, I saw that. 
Yeah, no, I was. 

555
00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:05,640
I was one of the Ogs for that 
one. 

556
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:09,080
That was hilarious. 
I think I'd done like 1, I might

557
00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:11,600
have done 21K swims by the time 
I went and did that. 

558
00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:15,680
I just got into one of my 
friends messaged me and she said

559
00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:21,240
I had this mad year where I kind
of just I had started swimming 

560
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:24,880
and I'd had a couple of quite 
rough life things happen and, 

561
00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:28,640
and I sort of didn't, I sort of 
re evaluating things and was 

562
00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:30,880
just trying lots of different 
things. 

563
00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:34,920
And so I I, you know, I had some
sailing lessons and I had some 

564
00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:38,440
flying lessons and I did all 
sorts of, you know, bungee 

565
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:40,480
jumping and zorbing and all this
sort of stuff. 

566
00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:44,160
And, and astral messaged me and 
she said, oh, there's the swim 

567
00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:46,200
series coming, you know, 
starting up in summer. 

568
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:48,280
We should go. 
And I thought, oh, yeah, OK, so 

569
00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:51,200
we booked and we're on the plane
and I said something about the 

570
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:52,200
series. 
She said, oh, no, I'm not 

571
00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:53,320
swimming. 
She said, I thought I might go 

572
00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:57,240
to survive. 
So I was like, my God, I was 

573
00:31:57,240 --> 00:32:06,600
terrified and it was so amazing 
in city, you know, I was so out 

574
00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:09,640
of my depth and so out of my 
comfort zone. 

575
00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:16,400
And but I did think they were, I
did 2 or the four swims and I 

576
00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:18,760
did three or something took 
ages. 

577
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:23,120
But you know, in city I still 
say to him now, you know, he was

578
00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:27,520
so he looked after me so well. 
He was so kind to me that it was

579
00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:30,240
life changing. 
It was absolutely. 

580
00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:36,480
And I say that term and he just 
goes, you know, I've met, I've 

581
00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:42,520
met through some, I've met some 
of my closest friends and I've 

582
00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:44,960
gone, I think I've done it, I 
don't know, 5 or 6 times. 

583
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:47,120
It's just one of my favorite 
places in the world. 

584
00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:50,440
That's cool. 
It's definitely on my bucket 

585
00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:52,040
list today. 
It's amazing. 

586
00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:57,880
It's just the the whole like you
kind of just have pinch me 

587
00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:00,840
moments when you're there. 
It's it's so good. 

588
00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:04,600
Just the whole vibe of it. 
And yeah, brilliant. 

589
00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:08,800
If you if you. 
This is a tricky question, but 

590
00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:11,920
if you had to pick just one 
place to swim at for the rest of

591
00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:16,920
your life, where would you? 
Choose Oh my God like one spot. 

592
00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:19,320
Yeah, just like 1 beach or 1 
river. 

593
00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:26,640
Oh my goodness. 
And you can think about it and 

594
00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:28,080
we can come back to the. 
Question No. 

595
00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:30,560
You know what Island? 
Rhode Island. 

596
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:32,600
Rhode Island. 
How old are you, Macky? 

597
00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:37,080
Goat Island, Because it's just, 
it's, you know, because it's a 

598
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:41,040
marine reserve. 
It's really spectacular. 

599
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:44,280
It's I've done it in really 
rough conditions, which was a 

600
00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:46,760
little bit stupid. 
I've done it when it's been 

601
00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:49,920
completely flat and you can get 
in the caves around the back. 

602
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:53,480
Like there's this variety of 
kind of marine life in 

603
00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:55,600
different, you know, in 
different days. 

604
00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:57,600
It's different. 
One time we went, we went up and

605
00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:00,720
there was just this pot of 
massive pot of dolphins that we 

606
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:04,080
had to kind of swim. 
You know, we kind of hung around

607
00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:05,480
for ages. 
Then we got in the water and 

608
00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:07,760
this little baby dolphin just 
swam underneath me. 

609
00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:13,600
And so it's like, it's just such
a, it's such a, a town for, for 

610
00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:16,560
Auckland, for the whole region. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

611
00:34:17,159 --> 00:34:18,800
I I'm really looking forward to 
swimming there. 

612
00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:22,000
The times I've gone there to 
swim at Great Island there 

613
00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:24,920
there's been a strong easterly. 
Is it the easterly wind? 

614
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:26,639
Yeah. 
And about too wild. 

615
00:34:26,679 --> 00:34:27,360
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

616
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:30,320
But have you been swimming with 
the Leigh Swim community? 

617
00:34:30,639 --> 00:34:31,560
I did. 
I have. 

618
00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:34,520
Has they're in. 
The area twice, yeah, they're 

619
00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:37,920
amazing. 
They're amazing crew and just so

620
00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:42,600
passionate about what they about
their whole, you know, all the 

621
00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:51,199
places that they swim, really 
welcoming, really cater to 

622
00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:53,320
people no matter what their 
ability is. 

623
00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:56,560
They're just a really awesome 
community of people. 

624
00:34:57,080 --> 00:35:01,360
Really kind and welcoming, hey? 
Oh, 100% yeah, absolutely. 

625
00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:03,200
And then you go, oh, sorry, 
yeah. 

626
00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:06,560
I think that's, I think there's 
a lot of there's a lot of places

627
00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:08,360
around the country. 
One of the things I love when I 

628
00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:11,840
see it on social media, you 
know, people say, oh, I'm going 

629
00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:13,560
to, I'm going to be in New 
Zealand or I'm going to be in 

630
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:15,560
Auckland for so long, you know, 
where can I swim? 

631
00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:18,920
And someone will always jump in 
and say, hey, yeah, come, come 

632
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:20,920
with us. 
Or, you know, these are the 

633
00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:23,320
people to talk to. 
And I love that. 

634
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:29,200
When you go for a swim, what is 
your must have gear that you 

635
00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:31,520
take with you? 
So it could be for during or 

636
00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:34,520
after the song I'm. 
Pretty. 

637
00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:38,000
I'm pretty low maintenance 
really. 

638
00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:43,880
I I'm kind of lucky because I 
have a GoPro, so I I always have

639
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:47,240
a GoPro with me just in case. 
And do you have one of those 

640
00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:50,960
floaty sticks so you can hold? 
No, I just wear it on a lanyard 

641
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:52,160
around my neck. 
Oh. 

642
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:53,320
Well, that's a good. 
Idea. 

643
00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:57,840
Yeah, just because I I'm a bit 
unko and my heck. 

644
00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:01,040
Well, I the problem with the 
lanyard around my neck, my 

645
00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:03,640
friend Julia and I went for a 
swim on it was a what? 

646
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:06,120
Middle of winter And I said, oh,
I can't. 

647
00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:08,240
We, neither of us could really 
be bothered swimming, but we 

648
00:36:08,240 --> 00:36:10,240
were kind of in our wet suits. 
I said, oh, let's go and jump 

649
00:36:10,240 --> 00:36:14,560
off the Wharf at Murray's Bay, 
which we did and I've, which I 

650
00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:18,680
filmed on the GoPro but failed 
to secure the GoPro in my hand 

651
00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:22,760
and it popped up off my neck and
dropped to the bottom of the 

652
00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:24,960
water. 
We had to wait. 

653
00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:28,480
We had to wait with the tide to 
go out for me to dive down and 

654
00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:31,160
get it. 
And the footage, absolutely. 

655
00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:34,640
The footage is so funny because 
it sounds like 321. 

656
00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:43,680
Yeah, blah blah blah blah blah. 
You're lucky you got it back it.

657
00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:47,080
Was it was it was highly. 
You know, Julia gives me heaps 

658
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:49,400
about that. 
Yeah. 

659
00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:52,880
Yeah, yeah. 
And now I've learned that 

660
00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:55,760
lesson. 
Well, you know, it's all about 

661
00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:59,360
learning and swimming, right? 
And that, what did you get the 

662
00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:01,840
footage you get from like 
underwater but also on the 

663
00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:03,240
surfer like that? 
Yeah. 

664
00:37:03,240 --> 00:37:05,440
What Roger Deacon calls that 
frogs eye view. 

665
00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:07,480
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
There's nothing like that. 

666
00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:11,120
It's so good and I think it, it 
gives me a chance to share with 

667
00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:15,320
people who don't swim something 
of of what it is to be out 

668
00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:17,200
there. 
And I think that's the thing 

669
00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:20,760
with my, with my terrible photos
of well camouflaged Stingrays 

670
00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:22,920
and things like that. 
It's just things that I see 

671
00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:25,280
someone said to me once you do 
know, you don't have to post 

672
00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:27,040
photos every time you go and 
have a swim. 

673
00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:31,200
And I was like, I don't post 
photos every time. 

674
00:37:31,240 --> 00:37:32,880
These are just the interesting 
ones. 

675
00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:34,920
Yeah, kind of think what other 
gear? 

676
00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:43,400
I'm a Zogs goggles girl, 
earplugs most of the time just 

677
00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:45,640
because I'm. 
Just protect your ears. 

678
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:49,840
Yeah, I've got must be youth 
means my hearings not great 

679
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:55,800
money is so protect that one. 
When I come back, I've got I 

680
00:37:55,800 --> 00:38:00,440
have a towel hoodies in the 
winter, a large purple one 

681
00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:04,960
that's known as Barney. 
Like the dinosaur. 

682
00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:06,920
Yeah. 
Yeah, yeah. 

683
00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:08,440
Hello. 
Yeah. 

684
00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:12,240
No, I'm not really. 
Yeah, not really very much. 

685
00:38:12,240 --> 00:38:14,440
Yeah. 
I mean, I've got I've got all 

686
00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:16,040
the gear. 
It's in the boot of my car. 

687
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:22,600
A tow float. 
Yeah, no, pretty low 

688
00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:24,720
maintenance. 
Yeah, makes sense. 

689
00:38:24,720 --> 00:38:26,280
I mean, you're doing it a lot, 
so. 

690
00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:29,840
Yeah, yeah. 
If I'm, if I'm very organized 

691
00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:34,440
and swimming midwinter down 
home, like down South, I'll take

692
00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:36,520
two towels and put a hot water 
bottle between them. 

693
00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:41,000
Because there's nothing like 
getting out of the sea, you 

694
00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:43,120
know, in the Deep South or 
getting out of a lake in the 

695
00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:45,480
Deep South in the middle of 
winter and having warm towels. 

696
00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:50,400
Yeah, Yeah, it's a good idea. 
I was thinking about, you know, 

697
00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:52,920
what you said about photography 
and taking the Stingray pictures

698
00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:57,960
and because I always like to 
take photos after a swim, just 

699
00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:01,040
even if it's just of the bait 
tray am, it's just like a sort 

700
00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:04,080
of visual record, isn't it? 
It's sort of part of the ritual 

701
00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:05,920
of swimming for me. 
Yeah, yeah. 

702
00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:11,920
And I, and I just, I think 
there's something about, and it 

703
00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:14,360
sometimes surprises me the 
photos that people really 

704
00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:17,200
respond to and really like 
because they'll be ones that I 

705
00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:18,840
just kind of don't think twice 
about. 

706
00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:22,440
And but yeah, I think it's, I 
don't know. 

707
00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:25,520
I think I like being able to 
kind of just share something of,

708
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:29,480
of that space with people. 
Yeah, exactly. 

709
00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:33,440
Yeah, yeah. 
Now you're an author of a swim 

710
00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:36,680
book. 
As a reader, do you have 

711
00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:39,240
favorite swim books that you 
enjoy? 

712
00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:43,200
Really too busy actually for me 
but. 

713
00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:46,920
Well, I'm I'm terrible because 
I'm too busy writing. 

714
00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:50,920
Like I I write. 
I write so much that oftentimes 

715
00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:55,240
at the end of the day my brain 
just goes not I've got I've got 

716
00:39:55,240 --> 00:39:58,120
1 sitting by my bed that I love 
and I cannot for the life of me 

717
00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:02,120
think of the name of it which a 
friend of mine bought me and. 

718
00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:05,880
But you can describe it if you 
if you. 

719
00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:08,760
Want it's something, Oh no, it's
gone out of my head. 

720
00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:15,080
It's it's a woman in the UK who 
her husband's really ill and so 

721
00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:18,400
she she it's something not it's 
not like I found something like 

722
00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:20,200
I found my tribe or something 
like that. 

723
00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:24,160
And it's absolutely gorgeous. 
And it's about, it's that thing 

724
00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:28,920
of ritual, the ritual of 
swimming and the, the community 

725
00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:31,800
around swimming and the health 
stuff. 

726
00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:36,240
Like for me at the moment, like 
I'm on quite a big deadline and 

727
00:40:36,240 --> 00:40:41,240
I just get quite stressed and, 
and physically I just go, right.

728
00:40:41,240 --> 00:40:43,920
I know I just need to get my 
gear and go for a swim because 

729
00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:46,800
being in the cold water really 
just. 

730
00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:49,560
That's a reset from. 
Yeah. 

731
00:40:49,720 --> 00:40:54,920
So that's a lot of that that 
stuff I'm not so much into I've 

732
00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:59,440
I've, I have not really into 
rituals, but when I swim in in 

733
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:02,720
the Hayaki Gulf or anywhere, any
time I swim and I can see it on 

734
00:41:02,720 --> 00:41:05,840
your total, I always just have 
this little moment where I just 

735
00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:08,920
where I just kind of go thank 
you. 

736
00:41:10,200 --> 00:41:12,720
You know, that's that. 
And, and whether it's it's 

737
00:41:12,720 --> 00:41:17,560
thanking the entity that is 
running total or whether it's 

738
00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:23,840
just a moment of gratitude for 
being able to swim and live in 

739
00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:28,720
this place where we can do this,
It's just it's yeah, I just, 

740
00:41:28,720 --> 00:41:33,400
that's probably my only, my only
little swim ritual, I think. 

741
00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:35,120
I can relate to that. 
Yeah. 

742
00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:37,480
I feel like that gratitude's 
really important. 

743
00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:39,480
Yeah. 
Appreciate where we are and what

744
00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:41,160
we're doing. 
Yeah. 

745
00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:44,680
Especially. 
When, you know, I spend a lot of

746
00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:47,640
time in Europe and stuff and in 
the fact that you've got to pay 

747
00:41:47,640 --> 00:41:51,280
to go to the beach and places 
and it's just so difficult to 

748
00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:53,800
access. 
You know, in the UK it's really 

749
00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:56,880
difficult to access rivers and 
things where we, you know, we 

750
00:41:56,880 --> 00:41:59,480
just have that without thinking 
about it. 

751
00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:02,360
And I think it makes it even 
more important to look after it.

752
00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:04,920
Yeah. 
Which is why, you know, I love 

753
00:42:04,920 --> 00:42:07,600
what John O Riddler has been 
doing his whole Co pepper about,

754
00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:11,440
you know, just getting rid of 
the bottom trawling and and 

755
00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:13,960
looking after a waterway. 
Same with a lot of like one of 

756
00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:16,080
the things that was called about
working on this book was that 

757
00:42:16,080 --> 00:42:19,640
there's so much around the 
rivers, you know, degradation of

758
00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:23,280
rivers and and it's a it is a 
real, real problem. 

759
00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:26,000
I've got one of the rivers that 
I used to swim in all the time 

760
00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:27,560
as a kid. 
I wouldn't even put my feet in 

761
00:42:27,560 --> 00:42:29,440
now because it's just so 
degraded. 

762
00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:32,160
One of the cool things about 
working on this was the number 

763
00:42:32,160 --> 00:42:36,120
of places I found where people 
are really just working together

764
00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:39,960
to rehabilitate their waterways 
and have brought them back to 

765
00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:44,160
swimmable and clean. 
And I think that, you know, 

766
00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:47,960
there's some real good stories 
of hope and around that and that

767
00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:51,320
space in there too, which was 
really great. 

768
00:42:51,720 --> 00:42:55,200
Yeah, that's awesome. 
This is this is a question 

769
00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:59,000
that's only just occurred to me,
but did writing the book change 

770
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:05,720
your relationship with swimming?
You know what it kind of did in 

771
00:43:05,720 --> 00:43:11,160
terms of when I got like if I'm 
travelling, I'm one of those 

772
00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:13,840
people that tears to get in the 
car and just go and get there. 

773
00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:18,160
And now I'm much more like I've 
always got my togs in the car 

774
00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:21,520
and I'd always plan to swim 
where I was going, but now I'm 

775
00:43:21,520 --> 00:43:25,760
way more likely to stop along 
the way and have a swim, which 

776
00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:29,520
before I didn't really do. 
I like that. 

777
00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:35,000
The, the there were two places 
and like, because I feel like 

778
00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:39,400
I've swum because I grew up down
South and swimming around the 

779
00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:42,600
South Island a lot. 
It was, it was interesting that 

780
00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:45,440
it was places in the North 
Island that kind of changed that

781
00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:47,880
for me. 
And I guess it's around those 

782
00:43:47,880 --> 00:43:51,960
places that because it's not 
familiar here in the North 

783
00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:54,440
Island. 
But the two places that changed 

784
00:43:54,440 --> 00:44:01,600
that for me were, you know, the 
Blue Springs, it near Petado 

785
00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:04,560
with which which tapu and you 
can't swim there. 

786
00:44:04,920 --> 00:44:09,080
But about a few kilometers up 
the road, there's a massive big 

787
00:44:09,080 --> 00:44:11,880
swimming hole in that river in 
the Wyhoda River that you can 

788
00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:15,600
swim in. 
Holy God, it's freezing. 

789
00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:18,400
It is epic. 
It is epic. 

790
00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:22,720
It is so beautiful. 
The water is so clear that like,

791
00:44:23,080 --> 00:44:25,720
and it's like near Paterdo, 
which I would drive through all 

792
00:44:25,720 --> 00:44:29,040
the time going down to, you 
know, if I'm going down to 

793
00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:31,640
Taipur, Rotorua, it's right 
there. 

794
00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:33,920
So cool. 
And then the other one was in 

795
00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:39,320
the Fuckapa River, which is 
just, there's this big Bush 

796
00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:41,720
reserve just out of Orfango, 
which is just South of 

797
00:44:41,720 --> 00:44:45,520
Tamaranui. 
And the Fuckapapa River is 

798
00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:49,960
beautiful straight off the 
mountain, as the name suggests. 

799
00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:53,640
And we there's this gorgeous 
like it was only a really short 

800
00:44:53,640 --> 00:44:56,280
walk through the Bush along to 
this. 

801
00:44:56,560 --> 00:44:59,840
The locals have looked after 
this stand amazing piece of 

802
00:44:59,840 --> 00:45:03,600
native Bush. 
And there was a path walked down

803
00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:06,640
there and there's a swimming 
hole in the river that they kind

804
00:45:06,640 --> 00:45:10,200
of the locals had built this 
little area, I guess for kids or

805
00:45:10,200 --> 00:45:13,160
like to get in, which was sort 
of had rocks around. 

806
00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:17,480
It got in there and I'm in the 
water and I looked and there 

807
00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:21,800
were five feel just just down 
the river from me. 

808
00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:26,400
When you think that these birds 
are rarer than than the North 

809
00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:31,560
Island Kiwi to see five of them 
and 1 go. 

810
00:45:31,880 --> 00:45:34,280
Yeah, in the wild, not in a 
sanctuary as. 

811
00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:37,600
Well, right, like just right 
there it tells you that because 

812
00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:40,200
the torrent ducks, it tells you 
that that river is really 

813
00:45:40,200 --> 00:45:45,640
healthy, that the ecosystem is 
in balance and that that, that 

814
00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:49,800
that whatever work is being done
in terms of controlling 

815
00:45:49,800 --> 00:45:53,520
predators is really working. 
And it was just like everything 

816
00:45:53,520 --> 00:45:57,480
kind of just fell into like, 
like all these different factors

817
00:45:57,480 --> 00:45:59,560
kind of fell into, I've got 
first bumps just thinking. 

818
00:45:59,640 --> 00:46:01,240
Yeah, no, me too. 
Yeah, it was good it. 

819
00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:05,520
Was so good and it was just that
thing of, oh, I'll go and have a

820
00:46:05,520 --> 00:46:09,480
look, you know, just that I'll 
stop and have a look when I'm on

821
00:46:09,480 --> 00:46:11,280
my way somewhere else. 
Yeah. 

822
00:46:11,720 --> 00:46:15,280
And just that serendipity of it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 

823
00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:19,440
So it's made me more likely to 
just stop and suss places out. 

824
00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:21,440
Yeah. 
And not just have a plan and 

825
00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:25,680
going to the shopping for that 
like I've got to get. 

826
00:46:25,680 --> 00:46:30,520
Somewhere. 
This isn't swim related, but 

827
00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:33,520
when I was preparing for this 
chat I discovered your book. 

828
00:46:33,720 --> 00:46:35,360
Is it Who Lived? 
Here, lived there. 

829
00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:39,280
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
Yeah, and so stories of 

830
00:46:40,400 --> 00:46:43,000
different houses around New 
Zealand or buildings and. 

831
00:46:43,200 --> 00:46:45,360
Buildings. 
Yeah, historic buildings and the

832
00:46:45,360 --> 00:46:49,000
and the people who live there. 
And yeah, yeah, I'm really 

833
00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:52,480
excited to read that because I 
love, I love social history too.

834
00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:54,560
Right. 
Well that it was an interesting 

835
00:46:54,560 --> 00:46:58,120
on that one because it was 
initially sort of we talked 

836
00:46:58,120 --> 00:47:02,120
about it being sort of very 
famous buildings and and famous 

837
00:47:02,120 --> 00:47:04,640
people. 
And actually, when I got when I 

838
00:47:04,640 --> 00:47:08,080
dug into it, they weren't 
necessarily very interesting 

839
00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:10,320
stories. 
And so some of these are quite 

840
00:47:11,200 --> 00:47:14,520
humble places. 
But the people whose lives have,

841
00:47:14,520 --> 00:47:16,040
and they haven't necessarily 
lived there. 

842
00:47:16,040 --> 00:47:18,280
It's like people whose lives 
have intersected with the 

843
00:47:18,280 --> 00:47:25,000
building in an interesting way, 
whether that's through being 

844
00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:28,760
involved with the building of it
or just all sorts of the way 

845
00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:31,200
that they intersected. 
And I tried to kind of bring 

846
00:47:31,200 --> 00:47:34,440
those buildings alive with the 
stories of those people. 

847
00:47:34,760 --> 00:47:38,680
And I think I'm quite lucky 
with, and it's the same with 

848
00:47:38,680 --> 00:47:40,520
this book. 
There's a few of the books that 

849
00:47:40,520 --> 00:47:43,080
I've worked on where I can just 
write them in my own voice. 

850
00:47:43,560 --> 00:47:47,680
And I really love that where I 
can just, I did a book called 

851
00:47:48,160 --> 00:47:50,720
Let's Get Lost, which was sort 
of New Zealand Rd. trips. 

852
00:47:51,040 --> 00:47:54,560
And my uncle, bless him, said to
me, I thought it was all right, 

853
00:47:54,560 --> 00:47:58,160
but really it was just you kind 
of Dr. travelling around and 

854
00:47:58,160 --> 00:48:00,040
winging on about swimming and 
bars. 

855
00:48:00,680 --> 00:48:03,360
And I just thought I was like, 
yes, yes. 

856
00:48:04,240 --> 00:48:10,080
That's exactly what it is. 
You need to put that quote on 

857
00:48:10,080 --> 00:48:14,320
the cover. 
I'm not sure there's many pies 

858
00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:15,920
in the swim book, but they might
be. 

859
00:48:18,360 --> 00:48:22,680
A couple of weeks ago here for 
Anzac Day, we had our annual 

860
00:48:23,520 --> 00:48:27,960
Anzac Day swim where we 
remember, so Bernard Freiberg, 

861
00:48:27,960 --> 00:48:30,760
who, Oh, yes, like of the pole 
and the beach. 

862
00:48:30,760 --> 00:48:35,360
And he did a a heroic swim in, 
in the night during World War 

863
00:48:35,360 --> 00:48:36,480
One. 
And yeah. 

864
00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:39,040
So I was going to ask you like, 
you're interested in swimming 

865
00:48:39,040 --> 00:48:40,240
and you're interested in 
Hillary. 

866
00:48:40,240 --> 00:48:42,840
Are you interested in the 
intersection between the two? 

867
00:48:42,920 --> 00:48:46,600
Yes, conference book that I've 
got coming out at Christmas. 

868
00:48:47,480 --> 00:48:50,960
I just read some things because 
there was something that had 

869
00:48:50,960 --> 00:48:54,360
been sitting on me that I'd 
wanted to include and hadn't. 

870
00:48:54,400 --> 00:48:57,360
And then at the last minute I 
managed to follow and change it 

871
00:48:57,360 --> 00:48:59,800
where I've written a piece about
me to McKenzie. 

872
00:49:00,480 --> 00:49:03,320
Oh, brilliant. 
Yeah, because when I was about, 

873
00:49:04,040 --> 00:49:06,280
I think I would have been about.
I don't know how old I was when 

874
00:49:06,280 --> 00:49:09,720
she did that. 
Double cross it the devil 

875
00:49:09,720 --> 00:49:12,280
crossing or when she was the 
youngest, the first New Zealand 

876
00:49:12,280 --> 00:49:13,680
woman to do the cook straight 
crossing. 

877
00:49:13,680 --> 00:49:16,080
I think it was and I remember 
hearing it on the radio and 

878
00:49:16,080 --> 00:49:19,640
being just so inspired by that 
because she was 16 or something.

879
00:49:20,080 --> 00:49:25,360
And I did a speech about it. 
I think it was at school or what

880
00:49:25,360 --> 00:49:29,120
you know. 
So I love that that that New 

881
00:49:29,120 --> 00:49:33,800
Zealand history of and I think 
some of the Mahdi stories of, 

882
00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:37,120
you know, Henry Moore and and 
some of those the cook straight 

883
00:49:37,120 --> 00:49:40,200
stories and stuff. 
So cool, so cool. 

884
00:49:40,200 --> 00:49:46,160
And I think there's something 
really because we can swim in 

885
00:49:46,160 --> 00:49:50,000
those same bodies of water. 
You know, you do think about 

886
00:49:50,000 --> 00:49:54,320
those people and what they've 
achieved and just how amazing it

887
00:49:54,320 --> 00:49:57,080
must be. 
Yeah, exactly. 

888
00:49:57,400 --> 00:49:59,840
Just yeah. 
There's so many good stories out

889
00:49:59,840 --> 00:50:01,200
there. 
Yeah, yeah. 

890
00:50:07,400 --> 00:50:10,280
I just noticed we've been 
talking for almost an hour. 

891
00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:16,680
Let's go so quickly. 
Is there anything you want to 

892
00:50:16,680 --> 00:50:19,600
discuss, Ray, so that we haven't
already talked about? 

893
00:50:21,000 --> 00:50:25,000
Well, I think one of the things 
with the book that I kind of 

894
00:50:27,120 --> 00:50:29,880
like, there's one of the things 
I've included. 

895
00:50:29,880 --> 00:50:32,800
I have included places where 
there's options to do longer 

896
00:50:32,800 --> 00:50:35,080
swims and you know, for people 
that want to get out and have a 

897
00:50:35,080 --> 00:50:37,120
head out. 
But I really wanted to make it 

898
00:50:37,120 --> 00:50:39,280
kind of like I said, I really 
wanted to make it accessible. 

899
00:50:39,280 --> 00:50:44,760
I think one of the things that I
would love is to see it like 

900
00:50:44,760 --> 00:50:46,560
really danged up in people's 
cars. 

901
00:50:47,560 --> 00:50:51,120
You know, we're but rather than 
because of like people have said

902
00:50:51,120 --> 00:50:54,160
to me, it's such a good coffee 
table book and I'm like, cool, 

903
00:50:55,280 --> 00:50:57,120
can you just smash it up and put
it in your car? 

904
00:50:57,400 --> 00:51:01,840
But the other thing that I would
love the book to do is to make 

905
00:51:01,960 --> 00:51:06,480
particularly like anybody, but 
particularly women who used to 

906
00:51:06,480 --> 00:51:10,840
swim or might want to swim but 
haven't got the confidence to to

907
00:51:10,840 --> 00:51:13,120
get out there and, and just get 
in the water. 

908
00:51:14,880 --> 00:51:17,520
Nothing makes me sadder than 
when I hear people sort of say, 

909
00:51:17,800 --> 00:51:19,960
Oh, you know, I'd love to go 
with the kids, but I don't want 

910
00:51:19,960 --> 00:51:23,560
to get in my togs or whatever. 
Like I just think if I can do 

911
00:51:23,560 --> 00:51:29,360
it, anybody can. 
And, and it's so, you know, for 

912
00:51:29,360 --> 00:51:31,560
a lot of years living in 
Auckland before I got really 

913
00:51:31,560 --> 00:51:34,440
back into swimming, I would go 
to the beach and swim kind of 

914
00:51:34,840 --> 00:51:38,280
late in the day, like even at 
night sometimes because, because

915
00:51:38,280 --> 00:51:41,600
I felt that exact same way. 
And, and I find it kind of 

916
00:51:41,600 --> 00:51:44,400
slightly alarming and a little 
bit hilarious that I now I'll 

917
00:51:44,400 --> 00:51:46,840
happily wander around in togs 
and I just don't care. 

918
00:51:47,520 --> 00:51:56,320
But I think that this we as as 
What I realize now is when I 

919
00:51:56,320 --> 00:51:58,520
when I thought that people were 
concerned about what I was 

920
00:51:58,520 --> 00:52:00,440
doing, they were not thinking 
about me at all. 

921
00:52:00,440 --> 00:52:02,800
Most of the time they were 
worrying about their own stuff. 

922
00:52:03,520 --> 00:52:05,560
Yeah. 
And when the odd time when 

923
00:52:05,560 --> 00:52:07,760
people did so, I remember, you 
know, the odd time when people 

924
00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:10,400
would say things to me, it 
really impacted me. 

925
00:52:10,400 --> 00:52:12,720
Whereas if they did it now, I'd 
just be like, that's a you 

926
00:52:12,720 --> 00:52:16,760
problem. 
You know, I had, I had a quite 

927
00:52:16,760 --> 00:52:20,720
funny, I had a quote. 
I was down at the beach. 

928
00:52:21,080 --> 00:52:25,880
There's a few quite a few years 
and some young guys sort of cool

929
00:52:25,880 --> 00:52:28,320
Greenpeace, there's a whale or 
some, you know, really. 

930
00:52:28,840 --> 00:52:31,800
And there was a time when that 
would have really, really 

931
00:52:31,800 --> 00:52:36,240
battered me and I just, I was 
just in a really bad mood and I 

932
00:52:36,240 --> 00:52:38,280
just walked up to him and I went
right. 

933
00:52:38,280 --> 00:52:41,800
I mate said, which one of you 
and one of you, you and me out 

934
00:52:41,800 --> 00:52:46,040
there over 2K, Whoever wins can 
just stand here and say what 

935
00:52:46,040 --> 00:52:49,000
they like to the other person. 
Which one of you wants to take 

936
00:52:49,000 --> 00:52:52,600
me on? 
It's awesome. 

937
00:52:53,160 --> 00:52:55,320
Just they wrote. 
They both just turned around 

938
00:52:55,320 --> 00:52:56,360
left. 
Oh. 

939
00:52:56,560 --> 00:52:58,800
What a surprise. 
I think those think twice before

940
00:52:58,800 --> 00:53:00,800
doing it again. 
But you know, I would I would 

941
00:53:00,800 --> 00:53:05,360
love for people to, you know, 
maybe for the book to just get 

942
00:53:05,360 --> 00:53:10,120
people a bit motivated to just 
go and get let it go and swim in

943
00:53:10,120 --> 00:53:12,600
some of these places. 
Just even if it's just going for

944
00:53:12,600 --> 00:53:15,600
a pedal and because the 
connection with the water is 

945
00:53:15,600 --> 00:53:22,840
just so just healing and you 
know, there's something just on 

946
00:53:22,840 --> 00:53:25,200
that really deep level that's 
just so good. 

947
00:53:25,640 --> 00:53:30,240
Yeah, it feels really good. 
So yeah, good for mental health.

948
00:53:30,240 --> 00:53:33,040
All sorts of years. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 

949
00:53:33,720 --> 00:53:36,440
And it's like one of the things 
I love is quite often when I'll 

950
00:53:36,440 --> 00:53:40,800
go for swim, like at the moment,
if it does, about every time I 

951
00:53:40,800 --> 00:53:42,480
go for swimming, someone will 
say, oh, you know, what's the 

952
00:53:42,480 --> 00:53:44,000
water like? 
And you end up having a bit of a

953
00:53:44,000 --> 00:53:46,920
chat with them and just having a
yarn. 

954
00:53:46,920 --> 00:53:49,680
And I think that the connection 
that comes from that, you know, 

955
00:53:49,680 --> 00:53:52,160
might be someone just at the 
beach having a walk or whatever,

956
00:53:52,520 --> 00:53:54,400
but that connection is really 
nice too. 

957
00:53:54,920 --> 00:53:57,240
Yeah. 
You know, that just having a 

958
00:53:57,240 --> 00:54:02,360
chat about the about how lucky 
we are place or Yeah, yeah. 

959
00:54:02,360 --> 00:54:05,680
And I think you just don't know 
when that can change a day for 

960
00:54:05,680 --> 00:54:08,640
people too. 
So there's lots of, yeah, lots 

961
00:54:08,640 --> 00:54:10,080
of positives that come out of 
it. 

962
00:54:10,320 --> 00:54:12,200
It opens people up, doesn't it? 
Yeah. 

963
00:54:12,320 --> 00:54:15,680
Yeah, yeah, I've had some really
cool conversations with people 

964
00:54:16,080 --> 00:54:18,960
just, you know, but then there's
a tipping point when it gets 

965
00:54:18,960 --> 00:54:21,920
really cold and and that's when 
you notice people kind of 

966
00:54:21,920 --> 00:54:24,480
veering away from you because 
they think you're really insane.

967
00:54:26,480 --> 00:54:28,920
And it's not get caught being 
called brave. 

968
00:54:28,920 --> 00:54:31,000
People are like, Oh yes, always.
Thanks. 

969
00:54:31,120 --> 00:54:33,640
For taking a bit of a distance 
as it's like you're sort of a 

970
00:54:33,640 --> 00:54:37,600
bit of a monster emerging, like 
what are you doing? 

971
00:54:39,320 --> 00:54:41,160
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
Oh, he's so brave. 

972
00:54:41,480 --> 00:54:46,240
And I'm always just like, yeah, 
no, not, no, no, not really. 

973
00:54:46,840 --> 00:54:49,560
Yeah. 
It's like brave as the people 

974
00:54:49,560 --> 00:54:51,440
that are around me when I 
haven't been for a swim. 

975
00:54:51,600 --> 00:54:55,440
Yeah, yeah, exactly. 
My family love when I go for a 

976
00:54:55,440 --> 00:54:57,920
swim till I come home. 
I'm happy and all. 

977
00:54:57,960 --> 00:55:01,960
Yeah, I'll say about what you 
said about books and, you know, 

978
00:55:01,960 --> 00:55:04,440
like wanting people to engage 
with your book and put it in the

979
00:55:04,440 --> 00:55:09,120
car and use it because I sort of
feel like people fall into two 

980
00:55:09,120 --> 00:55:11,720
camps with books. 
People like love to keep books 

981
00:55:11,720 --> 00:55:15,680
pristine and they shot as a sign
respect that you don't deface a 

982
00:55:15,680 --> 00:55:19,560
book and then there's others or 
like marking up pages and 

983
00:55:19,560 --> 00:55:23,120
folding corners and put it, you 
know, putting it in the boot. 

984
00:55:23,120 --> 00:55:26,680
And what's what's my books 
isn't, you know, the books I've 

985
00:55:26,680 --> 00:55:28,800
written. 
I love it when people put 

986
00:55:28,800 --> 00:55:31,520
markings, you know, in circles 
and highlight because it shows 

987
00:55:31,600 --> 00:55:33,040
they're really engaged with 
them. 

988
00:55:33,040 --> 00:55:36,760
Engaged with it, That's a. 
And I, I tend to do that tone 

989
00:55:36,760 --> 00:55:39,760
books I own, I have to add, not 
library books, but you know, 

990
00:55:40,040 --> 00:55:40,920
Yeah. 
Oh yeah. 

991
00:55:40,960 --> 00:55:42,360
There's nothing worse than 
someone else. 

992
00:55:42,520 --> 00:55:43,960
There's. 
Two groups here. 

993
00:55:44,480 --> 00:55:45,280
It's not. 
I can't really. 

994
00:55:45,280 --> 00:55:47,040
Explain, but you know, not in 
the car. 

995
00:55:47,040 --> 00:55:48,400
You know, like. 
Yeah, yeah. 

996
00:55:48,400 --> 00:55:52,840
Nothing makes me happier than 
than, you know, if I see people 

997
00:55:52,840 --> 00:55:54,760
say, Oh yeah, we tucked it in 
the car and there's some friends

998
00:55:54,760 --> 00:55:57,640
of mine in Wellington actually 
said, oh, that they'd taken, you

999
00:55:57,640 --> 00:56:00,000
know, down a roadie around the 
South Island and they'd taken it

1000
00:56:00,000 --> 00:56:02,560
with them. 
And I loved it because it's that

1001
00:56:02,560 --> 00:56:07,440
becomes part of the their story,
you know, becomes part of the 

1002
00:56:07,440 --> 00:56:10,400
adventure that they have. 
And and I think there's just 

1003
00:56:10,400 --> 00:56:12,560
something quite, yeah, quite 
cool about that. 

1004
00:56:12,560 --> 00:56:15,840
It gives the book another life. 
Yeah, that's awesome. 

1005
00:56:16,280 --> 00:56:20,640
I really like that. 
I have to start planning my own 

1006
00:56:20,640 --> 00:56:25,480
road trip with your book coming.
Sorry Waterways, I have to see 

1007
00:56:25,480 --> 00:56:26,880
now. 
I'll link. 

1008
00:56:27,360 --> 00:56:30,040
I'll link to the book and the 
episode description so people 

1009
00:56:30,040 --> 00:56:34,160
can go buy it. 
Is there a website you most like

1010
00:56:34,160 --> 00:56:37,560
made a look to like publisher or
Amazon or anything? 

1011
00:56:39,320 --> 00:56:46,320
No, I, I always recommend that 
people and you know, buy it from

1012
00:56:46,320 --> 00:56:47,800
whatever bookshop you can find 
it. 

1013
00:56:47,800 --> 00:56:50,680
But if you've got a small 
independent local bookshop, we 

1014
00:56:50,680 --> 00:56:51,600
love. 
Supporting the bookshop. 

1015
00:56:52,200 --> 00:56:54,840
Yeah, I'm very lucky to have the
gorgeous book lover here at 

1016
00:56:55,440 --> 00:56:58,720
Milford, which I love. 
So yeah, independent, you know, 

1017
00:56:58,720 --> 00:57:01,640
and the independent booksellers 
have been super supportive. 

1018
00:57:01,640 --> 00:57:05,040
They've been amazing. 
In fact, some of the chain ones 

1019
00:57:05,040 --> 00:57:07,080
have too. 
So I guess it's when you get 

1020
00:57:07,080 --> 00:57:09,800
people that just get it. 
Yes, exactly. 

1021
00:57:09,880 --> 00:57:12,960
Yeah, but no, wherever anyone 
wants to, if they want to buy it

1022
00:57:12,960 --> 00:57:15,640
called, do you want to get it 
from the library that's called? 

1023
00:57:16,040 --> 00:57:17,120
To Library's called to. 
Yeah. 

1024
00:57:17,120 --> 00:57:19,880
And people don't always know 
that New Zealand authors get a 

1025
00:57:19,880 --> 00:57:22,200
bit of money from having their 
book from the library. 

1026
00:57:22,200 --> 00:57:24,600
Yeah. 
Yeah, you're still supporting 

1027
00:57:24,600 --> 00:57:26,720
authors by getting a book out of
the library. 

1028
00:57:26,800 --> 00:57:28,800
Yeah. 
And and also, I don't know about

1029
00:57:28,800 --> 00:57:30,880
other ones, but I know the 
Auckland library, if they have a

1030
00:57:30,880 --> 00:57:33,200
certain number of holds on it 
because the copies are out, then

1031
00:57:33,200 --> 00:57:36,200
they have to buy another copy. 
So yeah, it would be afraid to 

1032
00:57:36,200 --> 00:57:38,400
put a hold on New Zealand 
because sometimes that means 

1033
00:57:38,400 --> 00:57:41,160
they'll buy more. 
Yeah, awesome. 

1034
00:57:41,160 --> 00:57:42,720
Well, thank you so much for your
time. 

1035
00:57:42,960 --> 00:57:44,400
It's been great. 
Thank you. 

1036
00:57:44,440 --> 00:57:47,160
And if you're in Wellington, 
give me a shout. 

1037
00:57:47,360 --> 00:57:50,400
And yeah. 
Definitely, definitely, yes. 

1038
00:57:50,400 --> 00:57:55,320
I I've got, I've got, I'm well 
overdue a trip to Wellington, 

1039
00:57:55,320 --> 00:57:58,560
actually well overdue. 
It'll be fun. 

1040
00:57:59,040 --> 00:58:01,040
We can go to Scorching Bay. 
Yes. 

1041
00:58:01,600 --> 00:58:05,200
Oh, I love you so much. 
Thanks for listening to Swim 

1042
00:58:05,200 --> 00:58:07,000
Chats. 
If you enjoyed the episode, 

1043
00:58:07,000 --> 00:58:08,480
please share it with a friend or
two. 

1044
00:58:08,880 --> 00:58:12,000
Also, remember to follow To Be 
Notified when I post new 

1045
00:58:12,000 --> 00:58:14,280
episodes. 
To help other people discover 

1046
00:58:14,280 --> 00:58:17,560
the podcast, you can rate and 
review it on Spotify or Apple 

1047
00:58:17,560 --> 00:58:21,400
Podcasts or wherever you listen.
If you're a regular listener, 

1048
00:58:21,600 --> 00:58:25,120
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Chats to support the pod. 

1049
00:58:25,600 --> 00:58:27,640
Enjoy the water and we'll see 
you next time.