and pick me up again. Hello, ladies and gentlemen,
welcome to anime watch club, a bi weekly group discussion and
review. We're the host of the way You
say anime podcast nominate involved shows either we haven't
seen or shows that hopefully lead to a great discussion.
On today's episode, the don't worry, Shinzo Abe, we're having
sex Space Cowboys of the way you say anime podcast.
We'll be reviewing the 1998 anime.
And if you were born before 1988, I guarantee you this show
is at your top ten. Cowboy Bebop.
We got a ton to discuss, but joining me today is on our space
adventure is Jolene and the moderator himself, Mr. Star
Patrick. Hello, hello, hello.
And as Pete just highlighted, yes, we're watching a cult
classic. It's not really cult because
it's massive, but a cult classic for Americans, right?
I guess maybe is the way to look at it.
Cowboy Bebop, as you mentioned, aired in spring of 1998, done by
Studio Sunrise. Genres of action, board winning
sci-fi with the theme of adult cast in space, rated R.
So stop listening, children. And yeah, let's get right into
our first impressions where normally we'd introduce Miles
here, but he's not here. So we're going to go in a
different order this time. Pete, what are your first
impressions and would you recommend Cowboy Bebop?
Yeah, so I had an ongoing bit for the longest time that I've
never seen Cowboy Bebop. And I always just said, well, if
it was so good, why haven't I seen it?
And I think it's fun to have stupid bits.
That was my stupid bit. You guys have this stupid bit
where you guys think Chili's is good for some reason.
Like it's a really fun. It's fun that you guys do this
bit. Like it's great.
So first impressions coming into this, I thought this was like
this space action maybe I don't know, like super shoot em up.
Like I was thinking like Black lagoon style and space because
that's all I've seen from like clips and everything.
And then I realized like the action is like really secondary
in this show. And I'm really surprised that
this show doesn't have like a drama or slice of life tag
because the emphasis of the show is not really like the violence
and the action like I thought it was.
Even though they are bounty hunters.
This is like a character driven story that just happens to have
like gun fights like it was. So it kind of caught me off
guard. Like it honestly took me a
second to really get into the story because of what I've seen
and what I've been told versus what I've got in the 1st 6
episodes. I'm like, OK, we're really just
going to be deep diving into these different cast members or
not just like bits, like full episodes, full arcs.
I was like, that is very intriguing though.
It took me a minute to get into this, but from my first
impressions, this is going to be of this era, one of the best
produced anime I've ever seen in my entire life.
Through all aspects of production, direction,
animation, voice acting, character designs.
There's so many different elements of the show that just
like blew me away that I couldn't believe that it was a
show from 1998. And that's what got me going and
that's what stuck me around with the show.
And then later on more, once we developed the full cast and
everything like that, the show really grew on me.
I would absolutely recommend the show. 2 thumbs up.
Yeah, carry that weight, baby. There we go.
Jolene, what about you? Yeah, I mean, this is a show
that I, like, grew up with. I mean, if you're like a Toonami
kid, then this is something that probably really affected you
when you were, like, growing up. I imagine this came out, you
know, I'm pretty young, you know, so this came out like four
years after I was born. I'm obviously a 2002 baby, as
you and Pat both know. Pete And honestly, for me that I
think that this is, it's still not my favorite Watanabe
project, but I can understand why anybody would say that it
is. And I think that the first 3
episodes, like they do an incredible job of just hooking
you in really the first episode, I think you'd be hard pressed to
find somebody who wouldn't get something out of it.
Like the way that the music goes into it is perfect.
I love that every episode is a different genre of music and
they incorporate that genre of music into whatever the major
set piece of that episode is going to be.
The setting is incredible, even if it makes no sense since
apparently it's the same word as Lazarus in Samurai Champlu.
Makes no goddamn sense. The characters, amazing.
We love Spike, we love Jet Black Faye and Edward will be
introduced later and I and as well, but they're all fantastic.
The bebop itself feels like a character at points like I think
that this show perfectly captures the space western vibe.
A lot of people would say Firefly does it a bit better,
but personally I think that this is the perfect space western.
And if you're somebody who is looking for great action but
also just great characterization as well, then what are you
doing? Go watch this.
This is like this is a must watch show for any anime fan in
my opinion, including you Pete, so I'm glad that you finally
watched it. Holy shit it took long enough
right? Like that's how I feel too about
it because God I love this show so so so much.
I think the first time I watched it was in college.
The show aired 3 days after I was born by the way, for the
first time. So that's pretty cool.
Dating myself there a little bit, but this show is everything
that you you both have said so far is how I feel about this
show. And there's so much little nitty
gritty details that are put in, whether that's in the background
or in the into in their characters faces or their
expressions or the things that they say, which, by the way, the
dub phenomenal as well. One of the first like good dubs
from this era. I would say it, it's better
yeah, even the director says it's better than the sub, which
is pretty damn cool. Oh man, I I just can't wait to
start talking about the the details of this show.
So I'm I'm not going to waste any more time.
This is a + 10 out of 10 recommend.
I cannot recommend the show enough and I completely agree to
that. The first episode suck.
It can suck anybody, and I feel like like it that it has that
little bit for anyone that likes anime, they should be able to
like that would be up regard, even if it's a little longer of
a show than most, you know, seasonals, that shouldn't
matter. The episodes will fly by.
But yeah, I guess that's three double thumbs up recommends for
Cowboy Bebop from the cast that's here today.
I think everybody else too likes it too.
From my memory, I think Kat and Miles are both big, big fans.
So let's get right into the review.
So spoilers going forward. So yeah, without further ado,
let's get right into it. What did we have a first talking
point that you guys wanted to bring up?
I mean, I guess I should do the Plot Summary that Miles normally
does first. So Pete, you think of your first
talking point while I give a quick synopsis.
How about that? Because we're down some members
today. All right.
Crime is timeless. By the year 2071, humanity has
expanded across the Galaxy, filling the surface of other
planets with settlements like those on Earth.
But these new societies are plagued by murder, drug use and
theft. An international outlaw.
Intergalactic outlaws are haunted by a growing number of
tough bounty hunters. The story follows Spike Spiegel
and Jet Black as they pursue criminals throughout space just
trying to make a living. They then the duo is joined by
Faye Valentine, a con artist, an odd child as described by the
show Edward the 4th and I in a biologically engineered Welsh
Corgi of some kind. And the story kind of just
follows their shenanigans, little episodic, especially at
the start, while also then continuing to explore their
backstories and how they ended up in the lines of work that
they are. So with that, Pete, what is your
first talking point that you wanted to bring up?
Let's talk about it. Yeah, I wanted to like bounce
off both of you because coming into this, I, you had both have
seen this before, right? And then I coming into this, I
have not seen it. So would I had my first
impressions of it, It's through like, you know, social media and
videos and clips and people's discussions about this.
I always seems like the emphasis is on like the action, the space
adventure, the choreography of the fights and everything like
that. But from my take away from this
is like, is this like a deep dive like character drama?
So I was wondering like through your perspective, like, is there
a reason why people don't like frame it this way?
Is it, is it like more alluring to tell people that it's like
this like space cowboy western rather than like a, because I it
has those elements. But I guess first let me ask you
is like, do you think it's more of like a space western or like
a character drama? And then I guess the the next
question would be like, why don't you think people like
maybe describe it as such? I think a big thing is it's the,
you know, the fights happen and especially like throughout that.
It's not like that if they stop at a certain point, but it does
follow that Western vibe entirely.
But I feel like a lot of people don't necessarily know the
Western formula, I guess, you know, like a lot of like how
many people here have watched more than one Western film?
That's like classic. OK, fair enough.
Maybe the ugly trilogy? The 11 is a bad, bad number, I
guess 1 franchise, 1 franchise maybe or a couple franchise.
Like, you know, like I guess the not to go too deep into it, but
the, you know, Westerns were inspired.
A lot of Westerns were inspired by old samurai movies and then a
lot of old samurai movies were inspired by the West and like
itself and then also really, really old Western silent
movies. So there's a little bit of a
going back and forth there that happens.
And I think that this show is a good example of like what if a
Western took place in space? So but a lot of Westerns do have
more of a character focus. So they'll have their big action
set piece, but then they'll also have like, who's this mysterious
character who's this coming into their lives?
There's death, there's grief, there's debt.
Debt is a big focus in the show and just trying to make a
living, right, trying to survive, which is a very Western
code and you know, I guess ancient samurai time Japanese
coded feeling as well as just trying to like find the money
for your next meal, right. So I think that that's really
where the show is. Or and then to more directly
answer your question, I think it's easier to sell a shonen bro
or just like your average person on Oh, look at this cool fight
sequence rather than no bro. These characters are so deep,
you know, like you just got, you know what I mean?
Like it's hard to and they are. No, that's not to say that they
aren't because it is. I think the idea is like, you
get it, you you would just you would hope that you would
naturally get that rather than having to be told that that's
what the case is. I what?
What do you think, Jolene? I think honestly, you know,
obviously I'm not saying Pete is like wrong or anything, because
like, I, that's your objective truth.
Like if you've heard that, then you've heard that.
But I feel like when it comes to Watanabe, like, yeah, people
talk about how good the fight choreography is everything.
But I feel like the emphasis has always been on the
characterization and how he blends like music into his works
rather than the violence aspect of it, at least in the
discussions that I've been a part of.
I don't know, like I don't know why.
Like it's easier to sell people on animation because it is an
animated medium, right? Like more people are more likely
to watch something if it has insane sakuga versus like if the
characterization is great. That's like not trying to shade
Demon Slayer here but a big part of why people watch it is
because of hype moments in sakuga.
Right. Like they love to see the
fucking million burst effects that UFO table is going to put
when Tanjiro does water breathing style ancient bidet
technique or whatever like. I could use some of that.
Me too. Me fucking too dude.
I think that it is just easier to sell people on things that
they can see rather than things they have to interpret per SE.
Because not everybody, everybody besides for, you know, blind
people and people who was not great vision has eyes that can
like see this. It's easier to see when
something is well animated versus like not everybody can
grasp like the intricacies of something like Faye's character
and why she has such an avoidant personality and like her
childhood that we get into when like all that sort of thing.
Like it's just, I mean, like even a character like Vicious,
like the main villain, most of his character background is
implied rather than shown. We don't really get any time
with him to see like what his inner monologue is.
We don't really learn about him apart from like how other
characters react to him. But he's still a very well
worded character. And but I think most people,
whenever they not most people, but anybody when they think of
Vicious can think, damn, that guy does some cool ass sword
tricks and can dodge bullets and stuff.
Not everybody's going to be like, oh, Titan fucked him up.
He became an addict and like got in with the syndicate and feels
betrayed by Spike and thinks that there's nothing.
Like since Spike and Julia betrayed him there's nothing
left in this world worth saving. None of that is said but what is
shown is damn he can slash that Cortana real well.
Got a sick ass bird. Yeah, exact shit shit.
Man like. It's just what I'm thinking,
like I feel like I would have picked up the show way sooner if
I thought it was less Black Lagoon and more like Evangelion
or something along those lines. If you didn't have the bit more
specifically. I feel like that's the main
thing that helped you. Yeah, Like I would, I guess it
would be more. I don't know.
It's just like like nobody even in our Discord like ever
explained to me that it was anything more than what I
thought it was surface level so. I don't know.
It was I asked you. Yeah.
Something. Sorry to interrupt you.
What about, like, Samurai shampoo?
Would you say you've heard the same thing about that or is it
just Bebop as far as Watson? Yeah, surface level shampoo is
nuja bees and samurai fights. Like, I don't really know
anything outside of that. OK, I'm just going to say I
think character wise it's even better than Bebop personally.
So oh, OK, watch it it's watch it next year when I nominate.
It that's going to be tough because I think Bebop's
characterization is. I asked you the best.
Ever. It's Yeah.
Like Mugen solo. Sorry I.
Guess we'll have to wait and see.
I I get what you're saying though, Pete, like, I guess I
didn't do a good enough job selling it or I think it's been
signed a few times during our secret Santa's and things.
And I'm guessing you probably deafened to avoid listening to
people talk about it. So so that probably doesn't help
either because otherwise you probably, like you said, would
have other than for the bit you would have been like, oh, there
is so much going on in the show more than just a pop pow.
Yeah, yeah. You know, action karate
sequence, whatever, which I, I, I'm sure you've seen the clip on
Twitter where he's fighting with the broomstick or whatever.
Or I love a woman that can kick my ass or something.
Like, I love the kind of woman that can kick my ass that and
that's like, that's not even in the show.
That's in the movie, right? It's.
In the movie, yeah. So 'cause I.
Was waiting for that scene to happen.
I'm like it just never happened. I knew that was coming, I was
just waiting to see if. That's what's a great scene I've
seen 70 times and I've never especially even like the last
scene where he goes bang or whatever.
Like I've never seen the clip of like vicious before that clip.
It's always Spike. So it's like I, I've never seen
like the the context outside of like what's just being fed to
me, which makes it seem why I understand why propaganda works
now. Like if it's fed to me over and
over again, like there's a good chance of I'll consume and think
of it that way. So shout to all the Bebop
propagandists. You got me.
That's a great show. I'm going to keep saying that
over and over again after every point.
Having well, I guess you watch Space Dandy first, actually.
So Space Dandy was your first watching hobby.
But Carol, in terms of things. Oh yeah, yeah yeah.
OK, well you obviously like Carolyn Tuesday, so you knew he
was capable of like doing Sorry I've that was the pre Jolene
times. So, but how could I forget
whenever it's our intro, you know, like.
That's a good point. Only 300 plus episodes of that
song. Damn I was really going to start
that by saying I mean Lazarus was your first Watanabe.
Meanwhile you've watched 2 series before Lazarus and maybe
even Terror in residence. Like it's bad apparently.
I don't recommend it. I haven't seen it either because
everyone says it's bad. I have a targeted question.
Does watching Bebop make you like Lazarus even a slightly
more no. Lazer it makes it worse because.
You see how bad Cowboy Bebop? You can see how.
Good you have when you have time and money and episode count that
you can make something incredible and Lazarus is like
it's like him, him shitting on himself, like straight up.
I disagree, but fair enough. You're the.
As long as you realize you're the only one, that's fine.
I know I'm not the only one, I'm not the only person out there,
but only one here for sure. See easy answer.
Jason DeMarco had nothing to do with Cowboy Bebop and everything
to do with Lazarus and Ninja Combo E and every other horrible
Adult Swim show. So.
There you go. That would make sense.
Just no Bebop when it first aired here, it didn't.
They didn't do every episode and it was because of Evangelion
like extra like basically shows that came after Eva right after
Ava got heavily censored in their releases and like
broadcast in the US apparently. Apparently that happened to
Bebop. So like we didn't like people in
the states didn't see the actual story of Bebop until it came to
Blu-ray and everyone and people were shocked by it.
You know, they're like, oh, this suddenly makes a lot more sense
when you and it's not completely butchered.
Like the first episode was not aired.
It was 237 through 15 apparently.
Like it's weird. It's that seems like a really.
I explained to my dad remember the first episode when I
rewatched it for the first time? That's so funny.
I love that first, I think that first episode we we kind of
hinted at already, but it I think it does such a good job of
establishing every character that's in the episode is
immediately characterized extremely well.
Spike is he's aloof, but also cunning.
He's he's talented physically and you know, like in terms of
like his his fighting capabilities.
Obviously that's shown by also like the the two baddies, the
the literal baddie, by the way, the pregnant woman, pregnant
woman and then the drug addict. Thank you.
I'm glad someone laughed at that.
Julian, thank you. The two of them are immediately
characterized about in their what they're looking for, their
struggle, what they're trying to achieve by doing this, how they
might have veered off of different paths.
It's so beautiful. I this first episode is so
beautiful. Not to mention the music as
well, setting, the setting, the scene, the art, establishing
that we're in fucking space, you know, like there's so much stuff
that's so well done in that first episode.
And then it's like, oh man, I nothing can top that.
And then the show just keeps going, going and going and and
being great. Does anything else stand out
from that first episode to you guys?
I mean, I think I'm in the minority where I thought episode
1 was just fine. Like a lot of the early episodes
didn't hook me like at all. Like the first episode that
hooked me with episode 8 with the Rocco episode, that's the
first one that like really did something for me.
I think episode 1 is a good job of setting the tone of what the
show is going to be, but it wasn't something I was
necessarily like looking for because it's not really like
that type of show isn't really what I actively like, engage in
and look for. So it didn't really hook me
until later when we got some more like an emotional
connection to some of the other characters though.
But I do think it is a good first episode.
There's nothing wrong with it. It's more of just a personal
like by preference versus what's actually on screen.
Oh, the Rocco episode. What a what an episode.
I like the idea that there's some sort of science involved in
this too, like pseudoscience of like, oh, well, actually
Mercury, the atmosphere would have this effect on you, right?
Like there's little things like that that help with the world
building just a little bit, even if they are completely bullshit.
And I'm glad Miles isn't here to probably shit on it.
And some could be like, oh, well, Mercury would actually do
this. And it's like, well, thank you.
I have. A telescope.
I I like. Get his ass.
I work. I work for big pharma.
Love you Miles, hope you feel better.
Hope we see you next week. Oh my God.
Or actually they will be injecting it intravenously
instead of into the eye. Exactly.
Can you imagine having to do that with to your eye though?
Like holy moly. I would never.
Never. No.
No thank you. No, thank you.
My Nana has to take a shot in her eye every like month and I
just hate hearing about every single time.
I I would tell people not to. You're welcome, everybody.
Else. Thank you.
Oh, man. All right, I guess we should
talk about more characters than just the very vaguely mentioned
Spike. Like, what if the crew, you
know, was around? Like what?
Like who from the crew would you say is your favorite?
Let's let's start with that and then we can talk a little more
about their interest intricacies too.
My favorite character in this show is Ed.
I think Ed kicks so much ass and I think like because towards the
end I feel like everybody sort of got like their resolution and
to what they were going for and Ed's was so heartbreaking.
But at the same time like it made the most sense.
And I don't know if we want to talk about like that
exclusively, but what Ed Ed added like an element of the the
comedic factor. While I do think Spike was funny
in a sense, it was more of like a dry stoic humor.
Like it would be like 1 offs and stuff like that where Ed is that
energetic on cocaine type of character.
But what just how Ed joined the team was essentially they didn't
want Ed Ed sort of like blackmailed them into joining
the team. And then we get to the point
where in the final episodes where Ed meets their biological
father and he doesn't know their name, their gender, like.
And then as soon as a meteor strikes, completely forgets
about Ed. And as this whole time just
trying to find a place where they belong and never got the
resolution. To the point where, I mean, I
think it's like a huge theme of the show is just letting go.
Ed decides it's time for me to forge my own path and does that.
So with EIN and sort of just that's like the first time that
Ed just like wasn't relying on somebody else or relying on
trying to get with other people. It was just Ed and their dog.
Like that was it. And that that character, what we
got through the entire series was just, I just love like the
the range of laughing and crying and being invested in characters
that they can show all these emotions.
And it makes you go back and think like, why was Ed behaving
in this way? Was Ed behaving as like a coping
mechanism? Or is Ed actually like this wild
child? And you could, you could
probably go in and digest that and try to like put like some
psychological terms to Ed. And I like that in a character
that they're, they're that deep. But on the surface level, they
just kind of seemed like the wild child, but they were so
much deeper than that. And that's why Ed was my
absolute favorite. Yeah, I mean, to nobody's
surprise, because I am very gay, Faye is my favorite character.
I mean, I've loved Fuji Komine for a long time, and Faye is, I
mean, she doesn't really do the disguise thing, but she's kind
of Fuji Komine in space, which perfect for me.
You know, I hate gambling, everybody knows that.
But I would look aside for her. I would let her spend it all on
the ponies or the puppies, whichever one she wanted.
She could have it all. More than that, though, apart
from me lusting after her, I think that she has a really
interesting like way that she connects to the other characters
because she is like Ed is obviously disconnected from the
crew of the Bebop in the way that, you know, Spacey Child.
Whereas Faye has kind of had her character arc from before that
we don't that we get a little bit of a chance to see with her
back story episodes, but she's an adult meeting other adults
and having to like learn to live with them to make this work
because of the situation that she's going through and when
obviously she doesn't really want to do that sort of thing.
I just, I think that her avoidant personality has a lot
of it really interesting psychology behind it.
Whenever you like, get to her back story episode with the one
guy whose name I forgot who ends up becoming like fat to hide and
everything. I thought that that was really
interesting. Really, I just think that like
the fact that she's such an avoidant character, but
extremely offended whenever they like leave her behind to go do
other stuff because she dips is like she's somebody that wants
people to like chase after her, but she's also somebody that's
running away from people who are chasing after her for other
reasons. Like she wants somebody to chase
after her for like a positive reason.
That's not I owe you money. She wants somebody to chase
after her because, like, I care about you, you know, you're my
friend, I love you, that sort of thing.
So I think that the dichotomy of her character as someone who's
on the run but still craves like a certain person chasing after
her is very interesting and very well done.
It's the leftovers too from her because she's essentially lived
2 lives right? When you think about it like not
that she lived a full life on Earth before the the moon gate
accident or whatever it was called a warp gate.
That's what they were right? Warp gates, warp gate accident
that like destroyed the moon. Such a cool lore thing too, by
the way, not the sidetrack, but man, that's that's so sick.
Like at first you're like, what is that?
And then they actually write it into the show.
I think it's very interesting how you, like you said, her
problems do follow her from her previous life where she
struggled with friends or was struggling to, you know, figure
out who she was. And then and now she doesn't
know at all who she is other than the fact that she's in debt
and she has to try to figure that out.
And when she does figure it out, she's kind of like, I don't love
this, I don't love this. I'm going to, I'm going to be
myself and I'm going to, like you said, keep running and hope
that my friends chase me or hope that people in my life that I
care about chase me, which I, I thought was really cool.
The idea too, of like waking up, seeing like a 75 year old woman
that's like you're sister or whatever, niece something,
whatever. Like the idea that you're is she
essentially time travelled right?
Like like for lack of paraphrasing, that's that's
pretty crazy to think about too. And it definitely makes some of
her decisions and her mentality in the earlier episodes where
you might be saying they're like, Oh my God, this, this
dumb, dumb character, like what are you doing?
Why are you doing these things make a lot more sense in
hindsight, you know, once you, once you do uncover all those
things. For me, I don't know if I could
ever pick between the cast. I love them all pretty much
equally. I think Spike and Jet, just
because those are the two we didn't talk about.
I love their friendship. I love how that they look out
for each other, how they are both constantly needling each
other about their past, trying to get eek out a little more
info from each other, trying to make each other better, but also
trying to maybe get some dirt so that they can leverage it the
next time they get into an argument.
And I I think their backstories are so, so cool.
I think jets is technically more fleshed out in terms of the like
you see the whole thing rather or or most of it rather than
Spikes is a little bit more more vague, but it's both of their
backstories are so, so interesting and there's so many
different ways they that you could interpret things that
happened on the screens to both of them as well.
I don't know. I just I love their their and
then again, like the way that they interact with the other
cast members, like the way that jet treats Fey.
It makes a lot of sense with with his back story.
And by that same token, the same way that Spike treats her is
very different, but also it still makes a lot of sense with
his back story as well. I think the the
interconnectedness of their all of their lives and their pasts,
maybe not literally interconnected, but the way that
they mesh is something that that really makes Bebop stand out.
I think the relationship kind of shows that towards the end,
especially with Spike, Faye and Jet towards the, I think either
the last episode or the penultimate one where Spike is
going to leave Jet like knows that if Spike leaves, he's
probably going to die. But like he's at the point where
it's like, you like it, it, it was like, so Jet's like, OK, if
this is your decision, I'm not going to stop you.
You're an adult, you can do that.
And then Faye tries to stop him by putting a gun to his head.
And I just love that relationship between the two
where Jet is way closer to Spike than Faye is.
And he lets her, lets him go. And Faye is more of like a new
family member and is like what is like Spike so much that she's
like like I'm doing this because I love you.
Please do not leave. And then like just like the the
desk pop at the end where she like sort of like admits defeat,
like fuck, like I'm losing you. Like I don't know, man.
Like that scene was so powerful. And just like when you in the
just like going from like episode was like 3 or 4 when
they are they meet for the first time to where they are at the
end of the episode. The season is such a just Howard
interweaves throughout the episodes was just so well done.
Like wasn't the best, but man, it was really, really good.
And I just love by the end of it, like we had the connection
secured. We're like, it's one of those to
me, it felt like a connection where like even if they weren't
saying anything on screen and they're just like looking at
each other, I could read their minds to what I was thinking.
And that's that's a, that's a, that's a.
Props to the character writing and the dialogue of the show.
Agreed. Wholeheartedly agree.
Yeah. That last episode, oh God damn
it. Oh so good, oh so good.
I'm I'm sorry, I can't stop myself.
It's so like the music, the the haunting music that that calls
back to I think whatever episode is 89 whenever Vicious is first
introduced. God damn it, man, this show so,
so cool. Well, we we kind of have hinted
at it already with a couple of the backstories we talked about
with the characters, but they're there's definitely a theme in
Cowboy Bebop of letting go or moving on, like learning when
you got to know when to hold them, no one to fold them or no
one to walk away. Right.
And that this show does it quite a bit.
What what would you say is your favorite moment or there I guess
you already talked about it Pete with with Ed more specifically
like in what decision that they make.
But what are some of the some other moments that really stood
out to you guys in terms of letting go or moving on or how
the show use that theme and that motif a little differently from
other shows maybe? Yeah.
So I think that the show does a great job.
It's sort of, I think it would be wrong if all four of them had
like super heavy like conclusions to their stories of
moving on. Like I thought Jets was surface
level. It was easy to understand, it
wasn't too complex. And I think that's necessary
because I think somebody like Faye where you're spanning
multiple generations of different types of trauma,
that's more complex. And so I did like how they sort
of structure that. And then spikes.
I think this is going to be a complaint I have, I'll have
later, but with it, But I don't think spikes.
I think phases like the best, like I think like about to be
like objectively just add stuck more to me.
But I kind of like that range of everybody getting the conclusion
that they were looking for or they may not even looking for,
but the each character got a conclusion and that it wasn't
all like 10 out of 10 emotional trauma moments like it was, it
was it was spanned out because not everybody has the same
trauma that they're or whatever that they're going through.
And I like that. That's how it was shown in the
show. What?
About you, Jolene. That is a really tough question.
I don't want to just like, I mean, honestly, I would probably
say mostly the same thing, Pete said.
Because Faye is like definitely my favorite character overall.
So I don't want to harp too much on that.
But I feel like like with the sort of like episodic nature of
the show, the characters that we were introduced to in every
episode, we're also really well developed despite getting a much
shorter time with them. For instance, the episode, I
think it's episode 7, I want to say Heavy Metal Queen with like
the, I forget what her name is, but her husband was the great
bounty hunter and she's like a space trucker.
Just the characterization of her and like how you know, she's
like they, they don't give away that she's the wife.
Like you just expect. She's obviously like a very
masculine sort of Butch woman. So you expect that she's
probably going to be like the dude or whatever.
But the characterization of just like her and how she wants to
carry on her husband's legacy is so well done.
I mean, we talked about Rocco. Like Rocco is somebody who seems
annoying as shit when you first meet him, but like over the
episode just grows on you to where like, I actually like shed
a couple tears at the end of that episode because I had
forgotten how much it like choked me up when I first saw
it. And I think that there's just
like endless examples of that and more and more or less all of
Watson Abe's work too. And I think that, like, you
know, I'm going to go ahead and shit on Lazarus once again.
I think that that is something that Lazarus was solely missing
actually was because they expanded the cast of like like
we have like 4 members of the Bebop, right?
Like 3 1/2 if you think about it, because Ed is not doing like
the bounty hunter stuff so much. Ed is very self-contained.
How many do we even have in Lazarus?
Like 6 or something like that? And maybe two of them mattered
at all basically. And then we just didn't.
We had to spend all this time doing useless back story.
I'm sorry, I'm complaining about Lazarus again.
I know it's not the Lazarus episode, but we spent all this
time and we didn't get any interesting side characters.
Watson Nabe is at his best doing stuff like Cowboy Bebop, Samurai
Champloo, where you're it's episodic and you're meeting
interesting characters and going on a journey.
It's always been about the journey rather than the
destination in his works. And I think that that is like
watching Bebop crystallize that for me, that that is like, my
main issue with Lazarus is that because of the deadline that is
set with the stakes, you do not have time to enjoy the journey
there. And the best episodes of Lazarus
for me were the ones that were about enjoying the journey.
Like whenever they're all fucking around on the ocean
checking out these places destroyed by climate change,
like I would watch another 12 to 24 episodes of bebop of them
just fucking around in space doing stuff.
I honestly do not like give me a little bit of character
development. I don't need super heavy back
story, but like I would just watch Jet and Faye like fuck
around in space at the end of the day, the day add a new
person to yeah, so I would I would say that that's my answer.
Sorry if that was kind of long winded, but I the the gears
started moving as I started speaking.
The Holy Spirit overtook me and I could not, I couldn't hold my
witness. I I noticed you say Faye and Jet
but you didn't mention Spike, but Spike would be with them
too. So, you know, like going, oh,
he's future episodes. I'm pretty sure he's dead as
folks. No, well, we'll talk about that
later. Then let's have fun with that
conversation because that's one of my favorite things.
I always ask for sure. After watching it I was like.
I think you can make the argument, but I think it's
wrong. Watson, Abe like not to.
I'll talk about when we get. There, I'll talk about I was
going to say yeah, no, let me let me go quick because my
again, I, you guys talked about your character.
So I'll I'll go back, bounce back to Jet and Spike are
probably my favorite examples of the moving on.
And we'll talk about the culminating episode and moments
with Spike later. So I'll focus on Jet then
instead. I like how Jet's story is very
much about moving on. It's about moving on from his
career and his entire life in the in the professional sense,
and then also moving on from his entire personal life in his
closest friend who is his cop or his partner and his wife more
more importantly, Right. And the running away is talked
about at first where he's like, oh, I'm avoiding that planet.
We're not going back, We're not going to that place.
And then once he finally does do it, he's able to get that
salvation, so to speak, you know, able to move on.
And I appreciate that it wasn't necessarily anger by the end of
it. I appreciate that he was able to
to move on. And it, it also showed that
they're maybe both a little better off because of it in in
the long run. And you know, the scars are
still there, both in the literal sense with Jet and then the, the
emotional sense too. But it's, I don't know, it's
cool to to see his, his development from his back story
as well, where he opens up a little bit more with the Bebop
cast after that episode and and continues to.
And I, I also love his little bonsai tree.
Like that's such a fun little hobby.
I wanted to get one in college because I, I saw those and I was
like, that seems like a fun little hobby to have.
And no, it isn't. Do you see how much?
They cost. Yes, yes, I do.
I have a little one on this app that I water every day, but
that's that's free. So it's that's it is it is peak.
It is peak. I'm.
Wandering by E tree. But my E tree's name, because
you can name it, of course, is actually Jet Miyagi because
Ashley insisted on The Karate Kid, Mr. Miyagi.
And I was like, but what about Jet Black?
And they're like, fine, we'll give it a, the name Jet Miyagi.
So that's my tree. That's E nice and it's story,
but yeah, so that's a great way to end talking about letting go
and moving on, I guess. But yeah, I think we we all
touched on it and then the entire show is all about that
too. Like like Julie, I think you
mentioned it with the side characters too.
A lot of their these stories are about moving on from either
their past, lot of their past lovers, their past family
members, jobs, a lot of livelihoods, anything along
those lines. And of course, like they're
hunting bounty, like the, the people that are being hunted are
murderers or thiefs or, or whatever sort of criminal you'd
want to say like they're all trying to move on and, and not
be that anymore, right? Or find a way out.
And I think they do a good job of showing that there is no way
out, right? Like it's always going to be
there. You're always going to carry
that weight and God damn it, I love this show.
No, it's so good. It's so good, it's so good.
OK, let's talk about maybe some production stuff too.
Was there any specific moments that you want to bring up?
Cuz I know you mentioned production earlier, Pete and
Julie, and you've complimented as well.
Like for me, I think they did space extremely well in terms of
showing the way that the things float around or the way that the
ships fly and movement and and just what space would be like
from my understanding. And I know Neil degrasse Tyson's
going to yell at me or, you know, actually you're wrong
about this stuff. But yeah, but like, again,
that's I thought that the the way that they it, it's almost so
well done that it's like romanticized, you know.
So I think that that's where I would compliment the production
beyond obviously the God tear dub that we got.
But what? What's something that stood out
to you? Specific scene design?
Something along those lines. A specific scene was it when Jet
and Spike we're going off the the boat race or the the guy
escaping in the boat with the girl when they mix sort of the
the the space elements, like the ships inside, like urban
settings inside, like the city. I think that's where it shined,
I think. And if we're all bring up
Lazarus, one thing Lazarus did really well was sort of like
showcasing and animating the urban settings.
And I really enjoyed what we got from Cowboy Bebop, But it was
there's still levels of like I compared it to like Akira where
you have like normal city settings, but like they go above
and beyond with like the shadowing of the, the characters
and the movements where you see the spaceship going by and you
see the shadows moving with the light, like as it's going
through like a street light and it's, it's panning and it's
like, oh, that's it's not just a blank still.
It's it's changing with the movement and just seeing the
level of that over and over and over again in the show where
it's like, you didn't have to do that and it would have been the
same show, but because you did, it's elevated so much more.
And it was, it wasn't, was just one of those things where
sometimes you see in shows where they just have like 1 big ass
soccer gun moment and like, yeah, this is it.
There was no like there was no episode 19 of Demon Slayer in
this like 75% of the show was episode 19 of Demon Slayer.
Like it was just so polished for its time.
And that's not even including the music, which was just like,
I mean, duh, like incredible. Regardless of his works, his
music is always incredible sound design.
It's like kind of what I wanted Black Lagoon to be was this.
This is why I want Black Lagoon to be like the weapons sounded
like weapons. It it would mix through because
they weren't always just using the same pistols or something
like that. Like there's so many different
types of combat in it. And it was reflected in each
type of weapon. The spaceship laser guns to the
rail guns to the pistols to the swords.
Like everything in the show was just cream of the crop.
And if someone said this is like they're they think it's the best
animated show of all time, I would, I would be like, I
totally see it. Like honestly one of the best
produced shows I've ever seen in my entire life.
Even faze boobs, right? I mean, like, they're right.
Like I'm. Not going to touch with that,
but. You couldn't let me say it, Pat.
You couldn't let me say it. It's OK.
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to. It's a cocky there.
But stole my Thunder. I was that was my.
I was going to talk about that and mine.
So please do that and please do because I only said 2 words.
You can you can take this. OK, I will not spend that much
time on it, but I do think that like the way that Faye is
animated is like obviously it is very sexualized, but I think
that it is sexualized in a very it feels like the female gaze,
like it's realistic. She's not like she's not like a
dragon made character or some shit like that.
Basically, like she is a like attractive, conventionally
attractive woman with a nice figure and everything.
But like, it's done pretty respectfully overall.
I like to think, and I like that.
I like that there's different forms of respect when it comes
to like femininity in animation. You can obviously do things
where you're not sexualizing the characters at all and be
respectful. But I think it's also possible
to have like a respectful sexualization for like a grown
woman, you know, but to move away from that because that's
that's my piece on it. I think that the moment that
really stuck out for me is that dogfight that happens with like
Vicious and Spike and Grin. Like if you watch the movie Ever
Peed, there's an incredible dogfight in that as well.
And I think that that is something that like I wish we
saw more of in anime was I think that like aerial combat is
something you just don't really get a whole lot of at all.
Like in sci-fi settings and like regular settings.
Like, I get it. It's it seems like it's probably
pretty difficult. You have to have like an
understand a better understanding of like physics
and such rather than like, you know, just making some
superhumans do cool stuff. Like they they do whatever.
Spike's kicking somebody's ass, or you know, the character whose
name I can't remember in Lazarus who's just kind of spiked but
worse. Yeah, I would say that that's
probably my overall favorite thing.
Like I had mentioned earlier, I love how they have a musical
theme for every episode and then integrate that specific genre or
style of music into the the story.
Like the one that really stands out for me is episode 17
Mushroom Samba. Obviously that's a standout
episode for a lot of people for an obvious reason.
But the train heist whenever they're they have like the samba
music going and it's just somebody like listing like
countries and cities over like of sick baseline.
I was like, hell fucking yeah. Like I started grooving a little
bit in my seat. Then I think that that is like
the mark of like a truly great soundtrack is whenever like it
makes you feel something and it's like, I know, hot take, hot
fucking take right there. I know.
But like getting me to like actually like get out of my seat
and groove a little bit is like even more so like feeling it in
your body instead of just like in your emotions is like a whole
nother level for me. And I think that the show does
that in a lot of ways. But I'm also just somebody who
really loves jazz, so maybe I'm biased.
You know, the the jazz in this show is unbelievable and I'm
pretty sure almost every episode is named after a song or an
album or something along those lines.
And they usually or or a genre, obviously, like you mentioned
the mushroom samba, whatever it was, but like those dude help
tell the story that is usually in that episode.
And it's the music is so, so well done in the production
behind that. To be able to select music or
create music or have a team that does that, I think is is
something that we don't see a lot in again, and I'm just
referencing seasonal anime, but even in the in the GOAT goaded
shows out there, right? Like you remember scores, but
you don't necessarily remember specific songs or how those
scores were like fully reflective of the scene or a
moment or an episode. But in this show you do almost
every single episode. There's there's a a specific
motif that it's trying to paint. I think the music is so, so
important to that one more comments on the faith thing as
well. I agree that is extremely well
done without being overly sexual.
And I think that the sexual aspect or anything along those
lines is usually painted in a way where it's relevant to the
plot. I guess where it's like, oh, she
is being held up by bad people or she's, you know, trying to
seduce the person on it that she's talking to or trying to
like pull a sleight of hand by showing little side boob,
whatever, like that kind of stuff.
So it's it's never irrelevant, I guess, which I appreciate more
than like like you mentioned Dragon mate, I guess, right.
So like that's an easy show to dunk on, right, for that stuff.
So that that's where I would stand on the face stuff.
So I think it's pretty well done.
Yeah, I think they have two. Scenes.
Where she's in the shower and each time it's just like her
back like it the you know, you'll see like a butt crack
like you would normally see in like other anime.
It was, I thought it was, I thought it was very like, yeah,
it's like she's just like sexy. She's just like a sexy person.
Like it wasn't sexualized. She's just a good looking
person. Based.
Yep. Based Yep.
All righty dude, let's do a question from one of our
community members who wrote some questions for us, which we
appreciate every single time. Thank you, Champ Eagle.
And with the government name that time, which one do we want
to? Answer.
I call him Eagle, Miles calls him Champ, and then you called
him Champ Eagle. It's just we got we got all the
bases covered. Yeah, there we go.
That's all we needed to do, right?
To everyone else, he's just The Stig, OK?
That's good, that's good. So what do we think?
Did Spike betray Vicious by hooking up with Julia or was
that a loyalty already meaningless given they work in
the Red Dragon Crime Syndicate? That is the question that we are
going to be answering or discussing.
Does anyone have some some strong opinions on that?
I would like to hear what our first time watchers have to say
personally because I've rewatched this whole thing quite
a bit. So from my understanding is that
Vicious and Julia were doing the deeds when Spike went after
Julia a little bit. So yeah, he betrayed his boy
like straight up. Like even though it's Vicious, a
terrible person absolutely. Is Spike Mr. Steal your girl?
Apparently so, but it was so reminiscent to Berserk where, I
mean, it's sort of like the same dynamic, but like, it was hard
to tell because it seemed like Julia like loved Spike spiked
loved Julia and Julia never really had much for Vicious and
that's what like it kind of seemed like.
And so yeah, he, I don't know if he deserved to die, but he
definitely tried to steal that dude's girl.
And he's he's the top dog. I guess at the moment he was, or
during that time he wasn't top dog, but like, he was a bad mofo
and you're trying to steal his girl.
So yeah, you kind of got what was coming to you.
Spike, Sorry, like, I get that you're the protagonist, but
you're kind of a douche. Counterpoint.
I don't know, man. Get over it.
Like you don't own this woman. She's her own person.
Oh. Yeah, by but.
No, I'm not saying you're saying that, sorry, but like no.
At the end of the show he should have been over hit by now.
It was like 24 years later or something like Spike is like 50.
Like get over it. Isn't that long?
I think it was that. Like I think it's like 24 years
from the war to the last episode.
It's like 24 years, something along those lines.
I'm pretty sure Spike is in like his 40s because it was like it
was the war and then they joined the syndicate and then we and
then we're flash forward to the last episode.
I think it's like 24 years. No spike is 27 years.
No way. I was going to say, I don't
think I was. I was.
You had me doubting myself. What am I thinking of then?
Because he's meant to be part of the 27 club.
I swear it was way more time has passed.
OK, that changes a lot then. Yeah, no, not a lot of time has
passed. So maybe that's how long?
Fate was crying, likely frozen. Or something like Faye.
Faye Faye was frozen for 50 years.
OK, maybe that's why I got that mixed up then.
OK, no worries. There's a lot going on, he.
He can still hold a grudge. I I I retracked my statement.
Well, I mean, the grudge makes sense, but also like Spike and
Julia both wanting to run away makes sense because it's implied
that it's like right when he starts using and starts trying
to like gain that advantage to climb the ladder and Spike
sitting there like, you know what, this crime shit, it ain't
for me. Well, or this specific brand of
crime, you know, we're killing kids or we're doing like all
these awful things. This isn't for me.
I don't want to do this anymore. Julia, let's run away together,
you know, because, well, obviously he liked her, but also
could tell that she wasn't vibing with what was going on
either. I think is is the vibe that I
got from them. The the love triangle is not
something I expected the first time I watched this myself.
So I guess, yeah, to answer the question more directly, I guess
he technically betrayed him, but I would say that Vicious is not
trustworthy or deserving of like like.
I don't know, like, I do agree that, yeah, I guess technically
if you're the type of person who cares about that sort of shit,
like, then yeah, it's betrayal. I personally don't care.
I'd like there is literally nothing a partner could do to me
that I would call cheating. So I don't care at all.
But obviously that wasn't like a real thing that was seen as like
a mainstream from opinion at the time.
So you're the way it's framed in the show is sort of meant to be
a betrayal. But I also like Vicious was like
a dangerous addict who was obviously getting Julia into
some shit that would eventually get her killed.
He like pulls a gun at her on her at one point and shit and
like threatens her. Like once you start doing that
shit and fucking around like all bets are off man.
Like cheating is really where you're going to not you guys.
Sorry but cheating is where some people will draw the line when
it's a dude that is literally going to eventually kill this
woman like. Yeah, like literally beating her
or like doing things that's like oh what we're don't but but
cheating is not allowed. But the the rest of it.
Is there are some people who have an obsession, an obsession
with infidelity being like the worst thing a human being can
do. And I understand that getting
cheated on. Sorry to go out, get on my
soapbox. I understand that it sucks.
But like genuinely, if you think that what Julie and Spike did is
worse than the shit Vicious was doing, please seek therapy
before you get into a relationship.
I beg of you, because even if you're not somebody like me
who's all like liberated or what have you, like it's wrong.
It's just like all bet, like once you start threatening
somebody's life and like potentially getting them into
some shit that can get them killed, all bets are off in my
opinion, even if you're just like a normal person.
Great. Julia's voice actress, by the
way, same as Naruto. Pretty interesting I think.
Believe it. Believe it, baby, I I've got to
listen to that next time I watch the the the dub That's.
Also the principle from Lab Rats for all you Disney Channel kids.
Hell yeah, there we go. That's a good pull.
Nice, nice, nice. Oh man, I guess we should talk
about that final episode or the final arc really, cuz like
again, like we see Spikes as almost like the main character,
right? And like, we get a little of his
back story at the start. He almost dies, and then they
kind of do shenanigans for 15 episodes and then it comes back.
My first question, I guess would be like a lot of people complain
about that or that's usually one of the main complaints you'll
see about the show is the fact that we don't see more of
Spike's back story or we don't get more details on it or that
it's, you know, it ignores it for most of the show, which I
disagree with. But I'm curious about your
guys's perspective on that. Like is that before we go into
what literally happened? I guess is there what what are
your thoughts on that? Yeah, I'm, I'm at the camp that
I do wish that there because I do think that there's something
that you can take away from like the I'm going to put this in
quotation, the filler episodes. Like I think each episode sort
of has a meaning and a message to take away from it.
But I don't think every episode where that message actually
applies to the plot. So there would be some episodes
that I would remove that I could maybe get some more back story
on Spike just because I think that's some of the amount and I
don't think Spike was one of them.
I think Spike had just had like one more episode devoted to him.
I think of helped a lot. But with the ending, are you
like hitting? Is this like the is he dead?
Is he not dead Question Not not specifically, no, no more, but
more like, well, we'll talk. About the final episode and
like, oh, what is what is the shit that happens with Julia?
I mean, what is it, you know, like that was more my thought or
go in that direction before then eventually is he dead?
Because I think there's a lot going on in that final episode
that touches a lot of different themes we've talked talked about
so far. Yeah, there, there's a lot to
like, just decompose from that last.
Episode but in terms of. Man, God, where do I go with?
Spike, he's such a complex character towards the end of it,
where I'm kind of hard to put into word sometimes.
Well, I do think that he's dead. I'll just say that I don't think
he's alive. I think the only reason why, the
only thing. There's two reasons why I think
he would. Be alive.
Was one was he faked his death before he could somehow fake his
death this time? I don't know.
Like he knew that Vicious was going to slash him with a sword
spike shenanigans. Also that was a jet cooked his
last meal and he never ate it. So that could be a wink that
he's not actually dead. Like he never had his last meal.
Now I lost the question. What was the question?
Good. Sorry.
Well, we you kind of moved on to what?
The next question was but no, no, the more question was just
like, what do we think? Like are you of the opinion
basically that you know the show with Spike being the the main
character? How does or how do you feel
about how much of his back story we got?
Because it does it does it kind of sporadically, like what is
your do you agree with that? Like as a criticism of the show
or not? You kind of answer that you do
you wish there was one more episode.
I I would say think of you had like a really good sandwich.
And the bread is amazing, but like the toppings inside was are
like a day old. That's what that's what it felt
like. I kind of wish that we had a
little bit better, better meet in the middle.
That way it would complete my sandwich OK and that extra.
Meat would be a spike, more spike content.
OK. My extra meat, you know, sorry,
the phrase extra meat got me, but my extra meat would be take
one episode out, I don't care which one, and give me an
episode where EIN goes on a little adventure or adventure
Part 3. Let us get a like EIN's thoughts
voiced or something. And like nobody, like nobody can
understand it obviously, but it's like EIN's thoughts and let
EIN go on an adventure or keep it silent and just keep it
silent and just have music the whole time.
Like I think that would also go crazy.
I think that an EIN POV episode would have been amazing.
Basically like what Apocalypse Hotel did in episode 11 where
it's like 15. Minutes of silence and just
music. Yes, literally something like
that that. Would be sick.
That would be so sick. There's a lot more you can do
with this show, which is I think.
Speaks to the volume of the characters that are in it and
like the the world building right of it that that you could
even with potentially the main lead dead in the group
scattered, you can still do more with it, right?
And people want more with it. I would say that I understand
that criticism. I guess to answer my own
question here, I I understand where that criticism comes from
because I would, I just want more like objectively, rightly
like what you're saying. I I just want more of the show.
But I also think that it is very intentional by the director to
have it be so vague and have it be so much that you have to
learn from paying attention to the other stories or how they
react to the other stories of the people in their lives.
And in this case, more specifically Spike.
Like I think that that is very, very much intentional in the
same way that, oh, this is a perfect tie and I'm so good at
this intention. The end of episode 24 or 26,
whatever it was, is incredibly vague and intentionally
open-ended as to whether did he live?
Did he not? You know, it's a very Western
thing to do as well, to be clear to it's like half of those
movies and with like a hand coming up, not clearly coming up
from the grave, but you know, like, like someone's hand
twitching or a person riding off into the sunset, what's going to
happen to them? Who knows, Like all that stuff.
So I think there's a lot going on there with with Spike at the
end. But I can understand why people
wish we got more of it, or more, or got it more clearly outlined,
especially as someone who hates open-ended endings most of the
time. Yeah, Watson Abbey has been on
record. I say like as.
I mean this was from like 2007 so his opinion could have
changed or maybe it was 2017 I don't know.
It's basically the same year he said that he doesn't himself,
doesn't know if Spike is alive or dead or not, which I think is
like the interpretation is meant to be.
Like maybe he's going to want to do something in the future with
it and we get more content out of it.
So he wants to keep it a bit open-ended.
But I think that there there's arguments for both.
Honestly, I think that like my main argument for is that we see
like the star guardian like go out at the end, like the the
star fade away, but that could also mean Vicious because we
never see Vicious's body. So honestly, I think that he's
probably dead because I don't see how he could get out of that
situation like facing down the rest of the Syndicate.
But like it's also Spike Spiegel so he can do whatever the fuck
he wants given, you know, basically anything.
So I don't know, tough question honestly, because I feel like it
could go two way. I think like the.
Romantic side of the story of Spike dying makes sense but you
can I could also see because Spike wiped out like a ton of
the syndicate getting to vicious where I was.
If we're just playing like maybe it's not like the top people
that are left. If Faye just like flew in and on
our spaceship and gun people down.
I can see maybe Faye saving Spike in a sense, but I'm really
happy with how the story ends because it's sort of to me with
Spike's eye, he he can see the. Present and he can see.
The past at all points, like he can never escape that sort of
nightmare. I think it's like romantic for
Spike where this is the end and he no longer has to like deal
with the past and the present at the same time.
Like he finally saw Julia. I think it's like one of the
last scenes where he saw Julia in his present eye and not his
past eye. And I think that's sort of
supposed to like represent that he's like seeing her in the
light now and that he's able to move forward.
That's how I interpreted it. I think there's a a little.
Bit to do with too the. The song choices and the.
Music that is played. During this, yeah, it was a ball
with the ball or something. Or it's just like no.
Spike's coming back for sure. Yeah, now with the.
There is. A.
A finality. To it right and the the song.
The Beatles song that is referenced in the in those final
credits is is very important as well to this.
I think there's I don't know. I just want to believe he's
still alive because like what a character?
How do you kill him, right? You know, like the it's like a
it's a mentality kind of thing. More for me than it is because I
to be it doesn't change what happened in that scene he went
there thinking he was going to die on a suicide mission
basically on AI have lost my purpose in my life.
I am going to go end this dream and this, this, this basically
perpetual torture of, of existence.
And, and and that's like very like emo kind of sounding, but
it's not, and not not exactly how it's phrased or, or framed,
but it's, it's a general point. It's he's he's he's wanting to
wake up. He needs to move on.
And we talked about with the Boutis earlier.
He has to move on. He has to find a way to move on
with his life. And that's either in death or in
the afterlife or in vanquishing his demons, in this case,
literal demon and moving on. And God so well shot the score
and the music, the end, the end. Bang.
So good. Just aura, aura maxing, farming.
What's the we're too old? I'm not on Roblox anymore.
Oh yeah. But real quick because I brought
up that like their. Vicious Spike and Julia was a
lot like Berserk, you know, in a sense.
And now it did reminds me of Cowboy Bebop kind of having a
conversation that us Berserk fans are having with because
Spike is a lot like Guts and there's a conversation with
Berserk is should Guts die at the end of the series.
And it's kind of the same thing as Spike is like this is his
release from all of the pain that he's going through.
Though I because maybe it's because I've been the camp where
I think it's romantic for Guts's story to end in that way.
And so I see that in Spike as well.
And that's sort of the ending I want for that story.
And seeing it in Cowboy Bebop is like, I don't know, it's just
awesome to see you. So cool.
I love I love good shit. You know it.
Was a good show, good shows and shows like Lazarus.
I I liked again, I think I. I get why people didn't like it,
but I also think it got dunked on and we live in a world where
you get memed on. There's no coming back.
So got it. I don't know, I.
I I thought that. It was a perfectly fine show.
Is is where I'm at too. I'm not sitting here saying yo
watch our Lazarus review. You want to see our thoughts on
that? Yeah, 7 out of 10.
Whatever. I gave it.
I didn't give it a 7, did I probably did.
You probably did. We'll.
Find out in. The Lazarus Review.
Where I totally, I gave it a nine, which is the same score.
I came. Oh my God, dude, please.
You know what it was? I had so much.
Fun with it, I am going to bring it.
Down to an 8. But the reason why I think the
reason why in that moment was how much fun I had watching the
show that I like came into it shocked that everyone hated it
so much. Where like I I don't think I
gave it that out of spite. It might have stayed there out
of spite because you validly had complaints about the show.
I'll bring it down to an 8. You guys are you worked so hard
to. Convince me to do that.
So there. We go, do we have any final
thoughts on Bebop before we do our own closing thoughts I
suppose, Or is there a discussion point we wanted to
get to or I don't know. I feel pretty good.
Oh, I mean, I'm actually kind of curious.
Sorry. About the question, other
question Champ had asked where if we were on the bebop, which
role do you think you would fulfill?
Because that's just a fun one that has nothing to do with the
plot. I just think it's an interesting
bit for our fans to know a little bit more about us.
We usually ask this question too about other stuff, so that's a
good point. I.
I totally missed that one. So yeah, I guess I, I don't know
what I would be pilot maybe. I'm really good at driving and
and so yeah, maybe pilot of the bebop that I don't think they
need a talent manager or an agent really.
Maybe manage their bounties accountant work.
I don't. Know I was thinking.
Something like that too. Yeah, Pete would probably.
Do that I was thinking like logistics.
Slash like risk assessment like. The the amount of money for how
dangerous the job is type of thing.
And like I could plug it into an Excel and get you some numbers
or something like that. That that would be me, yeah.
Risk probability. Like whatever, underwriters.
Do for a living. Yeah, that that stuff.
There you go, Jolene, what about you?
What would you do? Oh, I think I would be a bounty
that they. Took for having too much space
debt. I would be.
I would do like I'd. Be like Faye, but.
Without the skills and ability to pilot a ship and some other
things. So mean to yourself, come on.
What would you actually do? Come.
On. Come on.
Oh, OK, OK.
OK. I'll give myself something.
I think if it were like an
idealized version of myself, I would want to be like, not
necessarily like I wouldn't want to be a bounty hunter for like
people. I would want to like retrieve
objects like when they went to get like the Betamax player and
stuff. I think that like a treasure
hunter more than a bounty hunter would be more interesting for me
personally because I don't really want to kill somebody,
but like going on to Earth and like diving into the fucking
like ruins and stuff. I think would be really
interesting because I am somebody who really enjoys like
diving and stuff like that already.
So that's a great answer. The Nicholas Earth.
Yeah, there you. Go.
True, the bounty is we have to feel the declaration of.
Independence It's sunk underneath the ground after a
meteor struck it. Old President Trump.
Old. President Trump was buried.
With it, actually, Pete, he held on to it like a Egyptian
sarcophagus. Or something like that.
Yeah, he used it for toilet paper and immediately.
Died and if, if we can finally move on from the fucking.
First documents, First Amendments, then I'm fine with
that personally. But you know, yeah, fucking
speech. Yeah, that's the one that's.
The one I'm talking about here. All right, Yeah, Let's do our
closing thoughts and our final scores for Bebop.
The math, it's going to be real easy on this one because it's
just going to be 10 + 10 + 10. I know.
You said you gave it a nine. You already.
I know. I know.
That was the joke.
Thank you, Pete. Yes.
I am totally going to give it and this time around, no I'm
not. Why is my calculator not open?
Why am I opening a calculator? I can do basic math, Pete, can
you? What is your I?
I like to. Think so.
I, I majored in math in college at one point.
What is what is your final thoughts and your final score?
I mean, just quick shout out, shout out the tank, one of the
most iconic. O PS of all time, I will say I,
I I skipped it every time because I've heard it like 4000
times. So don't shoot me like the
song's good, but I didn't need to hear it again.
That was great. It's pretty much what I
expected. I, I honestly don't think it was
like one of the best dubs of all time, but it was really damn
good. I, I talked about everything
that I already liked throughout the episode.
My my biggest complaint was just, I just felt like some of
the episodes that we got were like some of the filler episodes
were fun and everything like that.
But sometimes I watch the episode and I said, what's the
point of that episode? Like what, what were we doing
with it? It reminded me a lot when we
brought back Lazarus with some of those episodes in that show
just didn't need to be there. And Bebop was like this kind of
the same thing. So I do wish some of the like
moments that they had in some of the filler episodes sort of
correlated to like the main. Plot line sometimes I felt.
Like they did sometimes I felt like they didn't, but it was
very minor. There's that's like my only
complaint about the show. Everything else music,
animation, directing, S tier, S tier, S tier.
S Tier S. Tier.
It's just it was a fantastic, fantastic show.
I'm going to give this like a very high 9 out of 10, nine out
of 10. All right, Jolene.
What about you? Oh.
I'll just be quick about it because.
I mean for me this is probably like the easiest 10 I can give
and watch club history. I mean like nostalgia goggles on
like this. Show was just very.
Like formative for me. Nostalgia goggles off.
It holds up so well. Like genuinely, it holds up
better than shows that came out four years ago.
I think that Sunrise outdid themselves with this.
I think it's basically flawless. Yoko Kano's absolutely
incredible on the OST. Dub is great.
It's one of the first times I ever heard Steve Bloom besides
for as Tom on Toonami, and he's just an iconic, iconic voice
actor. I think he's he's the most
prolific voice actor of the modern age.
So like, I think that this show is just like historic and it
it's well deserving of A10 in my opinion.
So I will not complain about that.
Score Yeah for me. I agree with what my biggest
gripe with the show always has been, even after multiple
rewatches, is the like you said, there are a couple episodes that
kind of did drag at certain points or felt a little aimless,
which was frustrating because all the other ones are so
poignant and so good. And then like there's 24 or 23
episodes in this show that are like 10 out of 10 perfect and
that. And this isn't to say that the
other three are are bad either, like objectively bad.
They're just they don't feel like they fit like the the
fridge monster like goo thing like that happens.
It's so like it's silly. We get to see the characters
kind of have a little bit of different personality, but it's
like, what the hell was that? You know what happened?
There's no, there's no real impact from that episode.
And and I guess it was a nice break from the tension of the
other episodes, but it also felt kind of random.
And then especially at compounding that with or
compounding that with the fact that we we you wish you got more
Spike, your back story, you wish you got more of the crew
building up to that, you know, ultimate finale with vicious,
you know, like that, that back story as well.
I think that that's where my frustration is with the show.
But outside of that, like Pete said too, I everything else
about the show is perfect. You can show this to anybody.
I've shown this to college friends.
I've shown this to Ashley. She watched all of it and loved
it. I've shown this to friends that
I grew up with who weren't really into anime, maybe watch
Cartoon Network and that's it. Like this is it, it holds up so,
so well. I think it is probably like a
top five anime ever in my opinion.
Even as I give it a nine, I still I still love this.
I like in terms of enjoyment per in everything.
It's it's a 10 out of 10. It's a 12 out of 10.
I mean, it's like this and Gurren Lagann are are so
important to me. I mean those are mine.
Like if if I do enter end up getting more tattoos, those are
the next two, you know, like that's there's just no doubt.
I love them so, so much. Cowboy Bebop, what a show and I
will care. Bury this weight forever and I
will give it a nine out of 10 still.
Which leaves our final score at a 9.33 repeating better than I
thought we'd do. I guess it helps they.
Only have three of us. With the score, but that is
about 1/2 a point higher, a little more than the mouse score
of an 8.75. So good job everybody, very well
done. I'm happy with this.
It's a top 50 popular and ranked anime.
That's so sick. The show deserves all the
flowers it gets and I'm glad we gave it to him.
But yeah, that wraps up Cowboy Bebop.
Let's discuss not what we're watching next week, because
that's still a secret. The wink wink, biggest secret.
Not a secret, ever. Instead, let's talk about what
we're nominating for two weeks after.
That right, Pete? What are you nominating on the
eve of my birthday? Yeah.
So we reviewed the first season, the second season just.
Wrapped up and we all liked it. It was a lot of people's top
like 10 anime of last year. But why not?
Let's discuss the sequel I'm nominating Medalist Season 2,
yes, and it'll finally be time where we can air it.
Or or watch it, Let's go. I love.
That great choice. Great choice, Jolene, what about
you? This is just.
Easy for me since there's only three of us here.
I'm nominating interspecies reviewers, baby motherfucker.
I guess. Guess it's getting a A.
Legacy. Point a legacy point no matter
what, I guess it's getting a. Review.
Yeah, well, we'll see. We'll.
See. All right.
And I am going I forget why I even was nominating God the
three months ago before we did our themed weeks, but I'm going
to steal one from Pat week from last week.
I can't remember if it was me who nominated this or not, but
my happy marriage. Again, I've seen a lot of good
things about that show or people talk about it and seems right up
my alley. Ashley and I keep like flipping
through HBO and Netflix looking for a ROM com to watch and we
just can't find anything that we like.
Both are like let's watch it. So maybe this would be that
video. April showers bring Mayflower.
OK, I'll try. I'll.
I'll look for it. We actually watched Crazy.
Stupid love for the first well, for my first time a couple
nights ago and that was really fun that that it's with like
Ryan Gosling, Steve Carell, all them Emma Stone.
It's really funny, really good movie.
Highly recommend. But yeah, so that wraps up my
happy marriage as my nomination here on my even my birthday.
Throw that out there again for our voters.
I have my birthday tomorrow. So please vote for my show.
I'm cheating. Yeah.
It's my favorite, yes, but the gift of interspecies reviewers
would be. Something and and Medalist
season 2 would also be quite a gift, though I will say so I
don't think I'll be terribly unhappy with 2/3 of the options.
We'll see, we'll see, we'll see, But that you really shouldn't
hate on your own show like that. That's fucked up, man.
I know I. Know it's just, hey, it's what I
got to do to win sometimes. Right.
But yeah, that wraps up Watch Club this week.
Thank you for listening as always.
And Pete, why don't you take it away?
If you have made this far and you want to support us, the best
way to do so like, comment, subscribe, leave a review,
whatever platform. You're watching or listening to
us on. Now that I'm back from Japan, we
are back to our regular schedule.
So next week we will be doing our.
I think it's just gonna be me. The which fall?
Fall. It is the fall review from last
season going over like 14 shows that I watched.
Otherwise, if you're here for Watch Club, we will see you in
two weeks for, who knows, our April Fools episode.
What could it be? We'll see you then.
Thanks. We'll see you next time.
Bye, bye. Bye.
Bye.