1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:02,920 I mean, these are people who came when the civil war was at 2 00:00:02,920 --> 00:00:05,440 its height in Somalia in the 1990s. 3 00:00:05,440 --> 00:00:08,480 These are not largely people who have come in the last few years. 4 00:00:08,480 --> 00:00:09,640 They want to do a crackdown there. 5 00:00:09,640 --> 00:00:12,240 And we've already seen, haven't we, the ICE raids around the 6 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:15,280 country, people being literally snatched off the streets. 7 00:00:15,320 --> 00:00:19,080 And obviously they're getting very worried in Minnesota right 8 00:00:19,080 --> 00:00:24,320 now. Hello and welcome to this week's 9 00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:27,360 edition of Trump World. Anushka, how was your 10 00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:29,480 Thanksgiving? Oh, it was lovely. 11 00:00:29,520 --> 00:00:31,880 Thank you, Matt. I went to a beautiful place 12 00:00:31,880 --> 00:00:37,240 called Duck in North Carolina. You have a Turkey in duck. 13 00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:38,960 Very appropriate. Amazing. 14 00:00:39,200 --> 00:00:41,920 And it was my first Thanksgiving in America. 15 00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:45,760 I've always done Thanksgiving in the UK actually, but I didn't 16 00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:47,400 try. Have you ever tried? 17 00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:50,880 I forget what it is now with the marshmallows. 18 00:00:51,080 --> 00:00:52,640 Have you ever? It's sweet potatoes, isn't it? 19 00:00:52,720 --> 00:00:54,560 Have you ever? Tried I make it, it's my 20 00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:57,200 signature dish and it is are. You serious? 21 00:00:57,360 --> 00:01:00,200 I can't even imagine liking it. It's not so disgusting. 22 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:02,440 Because it's really quite disgusting in some ways, because 23 00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:04,720 it's like chemistry on top of vegetables. 24 00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:06,720 I mean, marshmallows are probably the worst thing that 25 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:09,920 that mankind can ingest. Well, today's not the day to 26 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:12,600 discuss American food, but I have to say it's been one of the 27 00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:15,680 things I've found most interesting since I've been 28 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:18,560 here. Now, do you know what Donald 29 00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:21,440 Trump did for Thanksgiving? Well, he first of all, of 30 00:01:21,440 --> 00:01:25,600 course, he pardoned his Turkey, the White House Turkey, the day 31 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:27,240 before. And then I'm assuming that he 32 00:01:27,240 --> 00:01:29,240 had a sumptuous Turkey dinner at Mar a Lago. 33 00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:33,120 But actually what he really did, what really gives him a great 34 00:01:33,280 --> 00:01:37,760 amount of joy, is to go on social media and rant. 35 00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:41,320 And this is what he said. So this is what other people are 36 00:01:41,320 --> 00:01:45,040 tucking into their Turkey, adding the condiments, you know, 37 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:48,160 holding hands around the table and saying thank you to all the 38 00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:49,800 great things that have happened in that year. 39 00:01:50,680 --> 00:01:53,920 Donald Trump said this only and then in caps. 40 00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:57,520 Reverse migration can fully cure this situation. 41 00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:01,680 Other than that, happy Thanksgiving to all except those 42 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:06,040 that hate, steal, murder and destroy everything that America 43 00:02:06,040 --> 00:02:09,360 stands for. You won't be here for long. 44 00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:12,760 End of quote, end of social media post. 45 00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:16,360 So I guess you know he never takes any time off work, does 46 00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:17,680 he? He's always on the job. 47 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:20,800 Yesterday I was watching the very long as usual, cabinet 48 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:25,040 meeting by Donald Trump and then he took this turn about Somali 49 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:27,880 people and let's just listen to what he said. 50 00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:32,040 I don't want him in our country. I'll be honest with you, OK? 51 00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:34,360 Somebody would say, oh, that's not politically correct. 52 00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:36,800 I don't care. I don't want him in our country. 53 00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:41,600 Now we actually aren't playing all of it, not because we want 54 00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:46,680 to sanitize it, but because it is just so offensive and people 55 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:48,600 don't really want to listen to all of it. 56 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:52,600 He talked about people in Somalia being garbage. 57 00:02:52,920 --> 00:02:57,240 He, he has this real thing for Representative Ilan Omar, who is 58 00:02:57,240 --> 00:03:02,080 AUS citizen by the way, but he talks about people like her, 59 00:03:02,480 --> 00:03:05,080 other people from the Somali community going home. 60 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:07,760 Like I said, he called them garbage. 61 00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:11,560 I mean, Matt, you have seen so much, you have heard so much. 62 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:14,120 Do you still have the capacity to be shocked? 63 00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:16,560 Yeah, I mean, I think that's the whole point, isn't it? 64 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:19,480 Just as just when you're getting used to the new normal of 65 00:03:19,480 --> 00:03:22,640 something that Trump has said, he says something else that 66 00:03:22,640 --> 00:03:25,040 makes you pay attention. It's all part of his attentional 67 00:03:25,560 --> 00:03:28,400 economy, the way he, you know, grabs the headlines and and 68 00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:33,440 grabs our minds and deflects perhaps from things that he 69 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:36,240 doesn't want to talk about like, you know, Jeffrey Epstein or the 70 00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:39,800 fairly miserable state of the economy or, you know, the cost 71 00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:41,560 of living or inflation, things like that. 72 00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:44,560 So he's very good at making everyone pivot to the thing he 73 00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:47,000 wants us all to talk about. Just want to say about the 74 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:50,240 Afghan, the 29 year old Afghan man who, by the way, you know, 75 00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:53,760 is, is a husband and a father of kids who drove all the way, you 76 00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:57,120 know, across the country to, you know, allegedly commit this 77 00:03:57,120 --> 00:03:59,360 crime, to which he, by the way, has pleaded not guilty. 78 00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:04,440 He worked for the American forces while they were occupying 79 00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:08,320 Afghanistan for I think almost a decade, including at some stage 80 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:11,040 for the CIA. He was brought in under a scheme 81 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:14,680 that was started by Joe Biden after the chaotic departure from 82 00:04:14,680 --> 00:04:17,440 Afghanistan. And then actually, his asylum 83 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:22,240 claim was approved while Trump was in office because President 84 00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:25,760 Trump did go out of his way to blame, you know, Afghans in, you 85 00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:27,800 know, this guy in particular, obviously, but also Afghans in 86 00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:31,440 general for having been brought into, you know, into America by 87 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:33,840 Joe Biden. But actually, let's not forget 88 00:04:33,840 --> 00:04:36,200 that it was actually President Trump who first made the 89 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:40,120 suggestion that America should leave Afghanistan many years 90 00:04:40,120 --> 00:04:42,920 ago. And this guy had his asylum, 91 00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:47,520 say, asylum papers approved under Trump when he was 92 00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:50,560 president this year. Having said that, you know, this 93 00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:54,960 is an excuse for Donald Trump yet again to unleash on people 94 00:04:54,960 --> 00:04:57,760 that he likes to unleash on. And he does this, you know, at 95 00:04:57,760 --> 00:04:59,560 regular intervals. But every time he does it, it 96 00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:02,280 gets more violent. I don't think it's a knee jerk 97 00:05:02,280 --> 00:05:05,360 reaction to what happened in Washington, DC last week. 98 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:09,920 I think it is the absolute driving ideology of this 99 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:13,240 government to crackdown on immigration in this way. 100 00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:16,160 But they are obviously using this as what they see as an 101 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:19,720 opportunity. And, you know, I mean, let's 102 00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:23,480 just pause for a minute and just just talk about the two victims 103 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:26,720 in all of this. Sarah Beckstrom, who was killed, 104 00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:31,520 was only 20, and Andrew Wolf, 24, has been fighting for his 105 00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:33,440 life. It was a terrible, terrible 106 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:36,760 crime, as you say. He has pleaded not guilty to 107 00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:38,880 this, But it was a terrible crime. 108 00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:41,560 But I was standing in the briefing room in the White House 109 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:46,560 on Monday, and I was packed in 'cause it's always completely 110 00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:49,640 packed with journalists. And Caroline Leavitt, the press 111 00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:54,040 secretary, began by talking about the two National Guard 112 00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:58,000 officers who were killed and obviously very, very badly 113 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:00,160 injured. And then she turned and she 114 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:02,360 turned to what they really want to talk about. 115 00:06:02,360 --> 00:06:06,480 And I have to say, Matt, I've, I'm not easily shocked. 116 00:06:06,480 --> 00:06:09,880 I would like to say, but I felt like really shocked by what I 117 00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:12,040 was hearing. I was standing there, You know, 118 00:06:12,040 --> 00:06:13,840 I mean, I don't know if this makes a difference or not. 119 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:16,480 You don't need to be an immigrant or a child of an 120 00:06:16,480 --> 00:06:18,920 immigrant to be shocked. But as a child of an immigrant, 121 00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:22,320 maybe I felt it even slightly sharper than I might have done. 122 00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:25,040 She talked about the disorder and violence, basically arguing 123 00:06:25,040 --> 00:06:27,880 this was unleashed by all Afghans, in fact, not just all 124 00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:29,040 Afghans. They were talking about 125 00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:32,200 immigration much more broadly by that. 126 00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:34,680 She was talking about people draining welfare. 127 00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:37,240 I think later on we'll get to some of the statistics about the 128 00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:40,920 reality of the economic impact of immigration. 129 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:43,400 It came alongside. And I just want to read this out 130 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:44,960 and then I just want to ask you about it. 131 00:06:44,960 --> 00:06:48,840 Christy Noem, the secretary for Homeland Security, went on 132 00:06:48,840 --> 00:06:51,240 Twitter. And again, capacity to be 133 00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:54,240 shocked you think be numbed after 20 odd years as a 134 00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:56,720 journalist. Still, I'm I'm just totally 135 00:06:56,720 --> 00:06:58,640 shocked by it. I just met with the president. 136 00:06:58,640 --> 00:07:02,200 I'm, I'm recommending a full travel ban on every damned 137 00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:05,080 country that's been flooding our nation with killers, leechers 138 00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:08,720 and entitlement junkies. Our forefathers built this 139 00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:11,880 nation on blood, sweat and the unyielding love of freedom, not 140 00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:15,640 for foreign invaders to slaughter our heroes, suck dry 141 00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:18,960 our hard earned tax dollars, or snatch the benefits owed to 142 00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:21,720 Americans. We don't want them, not one. 143 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:27,400 And then yesterday, Donald Trump turning this to Somalis living 144 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:29,640 in Minnesota. There's, he's talking about 145 00:07:29,640 --> 00:07:33,240 revoking their temporary protected status, which is 146 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:37,320 actually, we think, probably only relevant for a few hundred 147 00:07:37,320 --> 00:07:41,600 of the Somali community. The vast majority of them are 148 00:07:41,600 --> 00:07:45,800 American citizens, many of them born and bred in America. 149 00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:50,560 And he has absolutely gone for them in a kind of really 150 00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:54,680 shocking way. I mean, what do you think the 151 00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:58,040 impact of this will be for many of people in that community? 152 00:07:58,040 --> 00:08:01,160 And do you agree with me that it's not a knee jerk reaction 153 00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:04,360 that this runs through the thread of what they want to do 154 00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:06,880 as a government? Well, I mean, remember, Donald 155 00:08:06,880 --> 00:08:10,440 Trump started his first political campaign in 2015 when 156 00:08:10,440 --> 00:08:14,480 he came down the golden escalator in Trump Tower on 5th 157 00:08:14,480 --> 00:08:18,120 Ave. with a speech about Mexicans being, you know, being 158 00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:20,280 murderers and rapists and bad hombres. 159 00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:22,480 And some of them are good people, he acknowledged. 160 00:08:22,480 --> 00:08:26,120 But that that was his calling card to get into politics. 161 00:08:26,120 --> 00:08:30,560 That and the Bertha campaign against President Obama famously 162 00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:32,320 claimed that he shouldn't have been president because he was 163 00:08:32,320 --> 00:08:34,400 born outside America, which of course, was nonsense. 164 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:37,919 But he made the president proffer his birth certificate to 165 00:08:37,919 --> 00:08:40,679 prove him wrong. That's how he started. 166 00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:43,480 That's how it all began, you know, 10 years ago. 167 00:08:43,799 --> 00:08:46,240 So he's been doing this ever since. 168 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:48,840 But as soon as he got into office in 2017, the first thing 169 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:52,200 he did was ban immigrants from from visitors from Muslim 170 00:08:52,200 --> 00:08:55,320 countries. He then put the whole green card 171 00:08:55,520 --> 00:08:57,400 process on hold. I know this because I was 172 00:08:57,400 --> 00:09:00,120 applying for a green card at the time because I thought I might 173 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:01,640 want to go back to America at some stage. 174 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:04,600 And suddenly my lawyer ran and said it's all been frozen. 175 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:08,440 So he's been messing with, you know, different levels of 176 00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:12,040 immigration, asylum seekers from desperate parts of the world, 177 00:09:12,280 --> 00:09:13,960 people who just want to work in America. 178 00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:17,440 He's been doing it all along. What's different now, I think 179 00:09:17,560 --> 00:09:21,800 Anushka, is that it's, first of all, it's confusing. 180 00:09:21,800 --> 00:09:23,320 It's a bit like the tariff policy. 181 00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:26,000 We don't really, no one really knows where they stand at the 182 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:29,240 moment because it's also raw. And remember, this is policy 183 00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:32,920 that could potentially undo years of, you know, of paying 184 00:09:32,920 --> 00:09:36,040 tons of money and going to lawyers, you know, suddenly 185 00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:39,280 upended or maybe not. You know, it'll be challenged in 186 00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:42,080 the courts, I'm sure. Will the Supreme Court then rule 187 00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:43,480 with those courts or rule against them? 188 00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:45,400 We don't know. But if you're someone who's 189 00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:48,360 lived in the country, you know, legitimately, let alone 190 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:50,680 illegitimately, you're going to feel really scared. 191 00:09:50,680 --> 00:09:54,120 So I think consider, I mean, for a nation that is based on 192 00:09:54,120 --> 00:09:56,480 bringing bring me your huddled masses in the famous 193 00:09:56,480 --> 00:10:00,160 inscription, you know, the Statue of Liberty, that is based 194 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:02,720 on immigration. And this is one of the joys of 195 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:05,640 America, one of its strengths. This is what had made America 196 00:10:05,640 --> 00:10:09,000 great. To see the whole structure of 197 00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:11,440 immigration undermined like this I find deeply troubling. 198 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:13,680 And I'm not even living there as an immigrant. 199 00:10:14,040 --> 00:10:17,600 Obviously the reaction this week has been specific things. 200 00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:21,480 They're going to re examine all of the asylum claims of the 201 00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:25,760 Afghans who came in 2021 and that, as you say, the actual 202 00:10:25,760 --> 00:10:32,080 decision on this man who has been suspected in this crime was 203 00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:34,560 made under Trump. But the scheme, I think it was 204 00:10:34,560 --> 00:10:38,720 called Operation Allies Welcome happened under Joe Biden and, 205 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:41,760 you know, and suddenly all of them are being tarred like this. 206 00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:45,480 So that's all being examined. Caroline Leavitt seemed to 207 00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:49,600 suggest that there had been national security warnings to 208 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:52,840 the White House under Biden. I wrote to them and asked them 209 00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:55,560 about that because she said reportedly, as in in the 210 00:10:55,560 --> 00:10:58,240 newspapers, I wrote to the White House and said, well, you must 211 00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:00,160 know about it if it was a warning to government. 212 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:03,480 And they just directed me back to Caroline Leavitt's words. 213 00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:08,240 So no more detail on that. They're also, this is what he 214 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:11,160 says, pausing all migration from third world countries. 215 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:15,320 I mean, is there a kind of particular, you know, definition 216 00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:16,960 of that? And then they're warning 217 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:20,120 threatening a crackdown on the Somali population in Minnesota. 218 00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:23,760 They're talking about a case that involved fraud. 219 00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:26,560 There were dozens of Somalis who were, you know, caught up in 220 00:11:26,560 --> 00:11:28,680 that. And they're using that as an 221 00:11:28,680 --> 00:11:32,040 excuse to say this huge settled population, which, by the way, 222 00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:35,240 the vast majority of has been there for decades. 223 00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:38,040 I mean, these are people who came when the civil war was at 224 00:11:38,040 --> 00:11:40,520 its height in Somalia in the 1990s. 225 00:11:40,520 --> 00:11:43,640 These are not largely people who have come in the last few years. 226 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:45,320 They want to do a crackdown there. 227 00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:47,920 And we've already seen, haven't we, the ICE raids around the 228 00:11:47,920 --> 00:11:51,320 country, people being literally snatched off the streets. 229 00:11:51,320 --> 00:11:56,040 And obviously they're getting very worried in Minnesota right 230 00:11:56,040 --> 00:11:58,320 now. So, so the the this threatened 231 00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:00,960 crackdown is in Minneapolis and Saint Paul. 232 00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:04,480 Let's just hear how the Democratic mayors have reacted 233 00:12:04,480 --> 00:12:08,480 to this. Our values and our commitment to 234 00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:13,200 the Somali community, to every community of immigrants and 235 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:17,640 people in our city is rock solid and will be unwavering. 236 00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:23,040 Our police, many of whom are Somali themselves, are trusted 237 00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:27,360 partners in keeping people safe. They will not collaborate with 238 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:31,480 any federal agency around doing immigration enforcement work. 239 00:12:32,560 --> 00:12:36,680 Our city staff and our law enforcement will not ask the 240 00:12:36,680 --> 00:12:41,240 question as to whether an individual is documented or not. 241 00:12:41,880 --> 00:12:47,600 And by the way, there are more than 80,000 Somali people living 242 00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:51,720 in mini in Minnesota. Almost all of them are both 243 00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:56,400 documented and citizens. The last thing that we need is 244 00:12:56,400 --> 00:13:01,360 federal agents coming here pretending that we should be 245 00:13:01,360 --> 00:13:05,320 afraid of somebody just based on the color of their skin, just 246 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:09,560 based on what they look like, just based on what country their 247 00:13:09,560 --> 00:13:13,480 ancestors claimed as a as as honor, as a motherland. 248 00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:17,280 I mean, you know, what the mayor just referred to is essentially 249 00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:20,560 that if you look, if you look different, you know, I mean, 250 00:13:20,560 --> 00:13:23,280 different as in if you have dark skin, whether it's from Africa 251 00:13:23,280 --> 00:13:26,040 or Latin America, you know, forget whether you're a 252 00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:28,760 convicted criminal or not, or whether you're there legally as 253 00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:32,840 an American citizen, you run the risk of getting arrested by ICE 254 00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:34,320 officials. And then you're in this sort of, 255 00:13:34,760 --> 00:13:38,640 you know, terrible maelstrom of of of legal fees and going to 256 00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:41,200 judges and lawyers to try and get out of detention or 257 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:43,400 deportation. And that's just not happened in 258 00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:46,360 such a random way before. And of course, I think a lot of 259 00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:47,920 it. Anushka, I wonder what you think 260 00:13:47,920 --> 00:13:51,920 is driven by the ideologue behind Donald Trump on that is 261 00:13:51,920 --> 00:13:54,640 immigration 1. Stephen Miller, what do you 262 00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:57,280 think? Yeah, this is his deputy chief 263 00:13:57,280 --> 00:13:58,960 of staff. And I think, you know, his 264 00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:02,680 writing is all over this. And as I said before, not a new 265 00:14:02,680 --> 00:14:07,720 thing, something you reported on greatly in Trump 1.0. 266 00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:11,360 And now we're appointing again, reporting again on in Trump 2.0 267 00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:14,920 all over the executive orders. I mean, they had on day one 268 00:14:14,920 --> 00:14:18,120 signing executive orders talking about an emergency on the 269 00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:21,840 southern border, an invasion. And I was really interested in a 270 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:25,320 response that Stephen Miller actually made on social media to 271 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:29,640 a Wall Street Journal, which is a conservative newspaper article 272 00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:32,200 about all of this, which basically made the point that 273 00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:35,520 you don't punish everybody for one crime. 274 00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:38,000 You don't punish an entire, you know, population. 275 00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:41,000 And also warnings about the fact that actually, and again, we'll 276 00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:45,080 come to these stats, Immigration has been a huge economic boom 277 00:14:45,080 --> 00:14:47,880 for America over many years. And there is a positive to it. 278 00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:51,320 And he basically wrote back and said that this was the kind of 279 00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:54,480 big lie, if you like, about immigration, this idea that 280 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:57,840 you're importing individuals. He basically said no, no, you're 281 00:14:57,840 --> 00:15:02,560 importing societies and made absolutely clear that he thought 282 00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:04,960 that the society where these people were coming from were 283 00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:09,640 broken and therefore they would break American Society. 284 00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:12,520 And that is the thing that runs through all of this. 285 00:15:12,520 --> 00:15:15,480 I mean, my nature is to look at these things, not, not what 286 00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:17,520 Stephen Miller says, but you know, what the government is 287 00:15:17,520 --> 00:15:21,280 doing and assume that there isn't a kind of gobbling racist 288 00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:24,560 ideology below it. But it is quite hard to think 289 00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:27,520 that when you hear what they're saying again and again. 290 00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:30,640 And, you know, just one of the examples of what they did with 291 00:15:30,640 --> 00:15:33,040 an executive order immediately and now they're really hammering 292 00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:35,880 down on this is they've basically closed the door. 293 00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:38,800 This is a predominantly Christian country that has 294 00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:42,520 basically closed the door on people fleeing persecution. 295 00:15:42,640 --> 00:15:50,000 Their target for 2026 was is 7 1/2 thousand and Caroline Levitt 296 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:52,120 was very open about this at the briefing this week. 297 00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:57,600 Vast majority of them only white people fleeing discrimination, 298 00:15:58,160 --> 00:16:01,520 you know, is what they say. Farmers from South Africa, which 299 00:16:01,520 --> 00:16:04,000 I, which I do think really shows you this. 300 00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:06,080 They want to do stuff retrospectively. 301 00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:08,920 They want to review green cards. Trump says he wants to take the 302 00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:11,480 permanent out of permanent residency. 303 00:16:11,520 --> 00:16:16,760 I mean, I mean, the Somali population in Minnesota, which 304 00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:19,160 is very large because a lot of people settled and then people 305 00:16:19,160 --> 00:16:23,640 came to the same place, lots of young people, lots of people 306 00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:26,120 have been reacting to this. I think people are quite bemused 307 00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:30,240 almost about his obsession, obsession about this particular 308 00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:32,560 population. I mean, there's lots of humour 309 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:36,360 if people are looking for it on TikTok and Instagram, people 310 00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:38,800 making fun of him over all of this. 311 00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:43,160 And a lot of these people are naturalised citizens or, or just 312 00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:46,920 born and bred Americans. And, you know, it's, it's just 313 00:16:46,920 --> 00:16:49,000 worth just pausing for a minute. The thing that he's talking 314 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:52,120 about, temporary protected status, TPS, is something that 315 00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:54,680 is put in place for people who have come from countries where, 316 00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:56,720 you know, there are ongoing civil wars. 317 00:16:56,720 --> 00:17:00,040 Things are really still very unstable. 318 00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:04,800 One big population is Haitian communities around America. 319 00:17:04,839 --> 00:17:07,480 I did, you know, with the team, we went to Charlotte. 320 00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:10,760 Roy eating the. Dog, you know, which Donald 321 00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:14,680 Trump basically repeated this disgusting lion myth about 322 00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:16,400 eating their pets in Springfield. 323 00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:20,640 OH, I, I, I went to Charleroi in Pennsylvania about this. 324 00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:24,560 People absolutely terrified because you talk about TPS like 325 00:17:24,560 --> 00:17:27,040 it's just a new thing. People had been there, you know, 326 00:17:27,079 --> 00:17:30,640 since, you know, 2010 in the case of Haiti. 327 00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:34,480 But but I almost don't want to talk too much about TPS because 328 00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:38,600 it's not really about TPS because the vast majority of 329 00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:41,640 Somalis in America are Americans. 330 00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:45,440 And, you know, they don't want you to think about that or know 331 00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:46,760 that. And they're just going after 332 00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:49,800 them in a very brutal way. I mean, it is worth saying and, 333 00:17:49,880 --> 00:17:54,600 and we can both talk about this is, is obviously people have a 334 00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:58,480 right to be upset and angry and scared about immigration levels. 335 00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:01,560 And there was huge immigration over the southern border under 336 00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:04,120 the Joe Biden years. And, and one of the things they 337 00:18:04,120 --> 00:18:08,680 did was they ended up with a large amount of immigration in 338 00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:10,120 some of the more Democratic cities. 339 00:18:10,120 --> 00:18:12,400 And actually the population was shocked by that. 340 00:18:12,520 --> 00:18:15,840 Do you think that was a big contributor to Donald Trump 341 00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:18,080 winning again? Oh, absolutely. 342 00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:20,560 I mean, you know, the one thing I heard throughout the campaign 343 00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:24,600 was cost of living, immigration, cost of living immigration over 344 00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:27,320 and over again. And you know, from some 345 00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:31,360 Republicans, it was on the immigration front. 346 00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:35,080 If this isn't sorted out, if he doesn't come into office again, 347 00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:37,800 this will be, this will spill the end of the American way of 348 00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:38,880 life. It'll be the end of our 349 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:40,720 Republic. It'll be the end of democracy. 350 00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:45,400 And I think one of the things that we fail to appreciate in 351 00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:48,320 this nation of immigrants founded on immigration is that 352 00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:52,120 the numbers of people coming across from South of the border, 353 00:18:52,120 --> 00:18:55,000 from the Western Hemisphere, from Latin America, where they 354 00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:58,400 really only speak one language. I mean, it's mostly Spanish. 355 00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:01,000 Some of them, obviously in Brazil, speak Portuguese. 356 00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:05,360 That has changed the kind of culture of America more than 357 00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:08,240 previous waves of immigration from different countries. 358 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:12,280 You had the Irish and for that, of course, the English. 359 00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:15,360 Then you had the Italians and then you had people from all 360 00:19:15,360 --> 00:19:18,760 over Europe and there were sort of pockets of immigration and 361 00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:20,040 they've still left their imprints. 362 00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:22,720 So Minnesota, which he talked about earlier, which has a big 363 00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:25,280 Somali community, also had a big German community. 364 00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:28,240 And you can still see the evidence of that, you know, in 365 00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:31,600 in Saint Paul and Minneapolis, the same thing in Wisconsin, 366 00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:34,480 lots of German themed restaurants with waitresses 367 00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:37,440 wearing dundles and so on. But but nothing was sort of 368 00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:40,840 overwhelming. And I think for people, if you 369 00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:43,800 talk to people in the Trump administration and you talk to 370 00:19:43,800 --> 00:19:47,640 Republicans who want to turn the clock back to the 1950s and 60s, 371 00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:50,560 this isn't just about a perceived alleged racism. 372 00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:54,840 It's also about a panic, an actual panic that they're being 373 00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:58,920 overwhelmed by a Spanish speaking culture and 374 00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:01,840 civilization. And if you go to, you know, 375 00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:05,520 Texas or to California or to Florida and you, you ring up any 376 00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:09,040 public agency, what you hear on the phone in Spanish is. 377 00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:13,000 Or prima Uno para Ingles E dos para espanol. 378 00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:15,960 The first language of reference is Spanish. 379 00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:19,840 You press 1 to speak English, press 2 to continue in Spanish. 380 00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:23,160 And that is, it's kind of, it's something that a lot of 381 00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:25,440 Americans aren't used to. And I want to ask you and Uska, 382 00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:27,680 as someone who's just arrived in America, you've only been there 383 00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:29,680 a couple of months with your family. 384 00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:32,720 Does this stuff, does this immigration stuff make you 385 00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:35,840 personally feel uncomfortable about being there? 386 00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:42,440 Well, I certainly I have been surprised by how things are a 387 00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:46,360 lot worse than I expected them to be when I came and how scared 388 00:20:46,360 --> 00:20:49,520 people are, people who are legally in this country are 389 00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:53,200 worried about this because nobody knows what is going to 390 00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:56,400 happen at any moment. And yeah, I think it is. 391 00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:58,280 That's the. Point of the Trump polity to 392 00:20:58,280 --> 00:21:01,520 make people feel insecure, even if they've been there for years 393 00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:04,800 as American citizens. Yeah, and also I think he is 394 00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:07,800 responding to a genuine fear in the country about the levels of 395 00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:09,240 immigration. And you know, I often think 396 00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:13,160 about this, comparing it to reporting I've done in the UK. 397 00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:16,080 I remember in 2016 making a film about immigration ahead of 398 00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:17,760 Brexit. And I went to six different 399 00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:21,200 parts of the country and I heard a lot of people who were really, 400 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:23,920 really scared about immigration. I remember being on an open top 401 00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:27,760 UKIP bus when I was reporting, talking to UKIP politicians and 402 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:29,920 people were cheering this open top bus. 403 00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:33,280 And I remember standing in a square in Lee in the Northwest 404 00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:35,920 and at me about immigration, including, by the way, one 405 00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:40,480 person who was Polish and one person who was a black woman who 406 00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:42,200 was, you know, the child of immigrants. 407 00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:45,080 And I just remember thinking to myself, like, obviously, and I 408 00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:46,600 would like to talk about some of the stats. 409 00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:49,160 Obviously some of the things that people are scared about are 410 00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:52,520 not true, but some of the things that people are scared about are 411 00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:53,760 true. You know, I went to 412 00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:57,880 Peterborough, where the level of scale of immigration had been so 413 00:21:57,880 --> 00:22:01,840 fast and so kind of discombobulating for the local 414 00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:04,520 population. But people genuinely had seen 415 00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:06,680 everything change around them, the type of shops that were 416 00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:08,240 around them. I went to the doctor's surgery, 417 00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:11,000 and the doctors were like, we're very pro immigration, but it has 418 00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:14,120 really changed the challenges that we're trying to face with 419 00:22:14,120 --> 00:22:16,760 here. The school had had more churn. 420 00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:19,320 And when you look at the stats, it's very easy to just sort of 421 00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:23,560 scream about one side or the other, you know, scream falsely 422 00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:26,720 as some in Trump's administration do, that they're 423 00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:29,320 taking all our benefits. I mean, I think we could 424 00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:31,280 actually Fact Check. I think Donald Trump talked 425 00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:35,200 about immigrants, sort of, you know. 426 00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:39,480 Earning. 30,000 and taking $50,000, I think we can quite 427 00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:42,720 flatly say that is not true. If you look at cost and benefit 428 00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:46,520 in that way, immigrants hugely contribute to society in 429 00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:48,960 America. They're also 60% less likely, by 430 00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:53,280 the way, to commit crimes than people who are born Americans. 431 00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:55,560 But, but they wouldn't have you think that. 432 00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:58,040 But it's also true that, you know, the people who shout at 433 00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:01,240 the other end of the spectrum on this, they just put in more 434 00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:03,120 money. And it's completely untrue that 435 00:23:03,120 --> 00:23:05,720 there are any challenges. Also not true, you know, because 436 00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:08,680 many of those statistics don't take into account the impact on 437 00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:11,840 public services, the impact on housing, other things that are 438 00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:15,600 quite hard for you to kind of, you know, get your teeth around. 439 00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:20,360 But but America has nevertheless been built on immigration. 440 00:23:20,360 --> 00:23:23,280 The thing I find really quite hard to kind of fathom, which is 441 00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:25,960 quite different I guess to the UK, is that every single person 442 00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:28,480 who's talking about how immigrants are ruining our 443 00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:33,640 country is the, you know. Daughter or son? 444 00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:38,520 Of immigrants somewhere along the line and and like I say, the 445 00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:43,240 stats do show they do show that overall immigration has brought 446 00:23:44,120 --> 00:23:48,440 economic, you know booms to America, but you can't. 447 00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:51,280 You can't, you can't imagine America without it. 448 00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:54,680 But I mean, in, in terms of what you've described, you 449 00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:57,080 experienced when you were, you know, doing your films and you 450 00:23:57,080 --> 00:24:00,640 were reporting in Britain about immigration and the rise of the 451 00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:02,400 Brexit Party, now the Reform Party. 452 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:04,680 Of course, in Germany it's very similar. 453 00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:08,680 And in France, you know, and in Italy, every country is dealing 454 00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:11,440 with the issue of immigration in a slightly different way. 455 00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:13,720 And in every country there's a common theme. 456 00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:16,280 And that includes the United States, where you have 457 00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:19,320 communities where immigrants have suddenly arrived in very 458 00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:22,560 large numbers. The feelings against them are 459 00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:24,880 much stronger than they are in big cities like New York or 460 00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:28,440 London or, you know, or Berlin or Paris, where you've always 461 00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:32,320 had a real melting pot of different societies and 462 00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:34,080 different immigrants in different communities. 463 00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:37,560 And it's that sort of rapid arrival, you know, whether it's 464 00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:39,880 a town in the northeast of England or somewhere in the 465 00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:43,480 middle of Kentucky, where people show up suddenly and there's a 466 00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:46,200 quorum of them and they speak a different language and they 467 00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:47,800 worship in a slightly different way. 468 00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:50,880 That is where you have an issue. And I think what I always 469 00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:53,160 thought was true about America, and maybe it's no longer true, 470 00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:57,240 was that America could filter these people coming in, these 471 00:24:57,240 --> 00:25:00,880 outsiders, and say, this is what we're all about as long as you 472 00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:04,080 sign up to that, You know, that a Forbes piece of paper, the 473 00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:08,160 Constitution, which of course everyone's, you know, swears 474 00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:11,960 allegiance to, when they become naturalized, I find that term 475 00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:14,320 extraordinary. Naturalized Americans. 476 00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:15,760 In other words, they become citizens. 477 00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:20,440 You defend the Constitution that defends your right to be 478 00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:23,960 yourself and to be different. That was the key. 479 00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:27,960 And no other country had that recipe for bringing people in. 480 00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:32,920 And I think fundamentally that is now what is at stake across 481 00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:34,400 the board. The big question, though? 482 00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:38,440 Is people have very genuine fears and the reason they do is 483 00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:40,840 because their own lives have become very insecure. 484 00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:45,680 You know, economic affordability is clearly a huge thing here in 485 00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:47,080 the US. The Republicans have actually 486 00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:50,120 won an election in Tennessee overnight, but by a massively 487 00:25:50,120 --> 00:25:52,920 reduced margin than they would have done. 488 00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:55,640 So I think Democrats in this country are quite hopeful that 489 00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:58,000 there may be an answer. But all the world over, 490 00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:00,280 including Keir Starmer in the UK, grappling with how do we 491 00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:02,920 deal with immigration? I mean, just one thing in terms 492 00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:05,360 of a response from the left, I think this kind of focus on 493 00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:08,720 affordability, you know, is their best hope in a way. 494 00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:11,120 I always remember I was talking about speaking to people all 495 00:26:11,120 --> 00:26:13,640 over the country in the UK about immigration. 496 00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:16,720 And I always remember this woman just saying to me, my daughter 497 00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:19,200 hasn't got a school place. My daughter hasn't got a school 498 00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:20,280 place. And it's the immigrants. 499 00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:22,480 It's the immigrants. And I was thinking there's a way 500 00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:25,520 to solve this. Make sure her daughter has a 501 00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:29,360 school place, solve the problems that people are feeling insecure 502 00:26:29,360 --> 00:26:31,480 about. And then you will get less of 503 00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:36,000 this anger and this hatred. But also, it is also, you know, 504 00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:39,600 OK for people to feel angry and upset about immigration and for 505 00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:43,040 us to, you know, talk about how they can deal with that. 506 00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:47,280 What's not OK is to an attack an entire population in the way, as 507 00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:50,240 is happening right now and make people feel just quite so 508 00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:51,600 scared. And that could be politically 509 00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:55,600 interesting because Donald Trump won a lot of votes from Hispanic 510 00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:58,640 voters in the last election. And the early signs and 511 00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:01,560 particularly in those recent elections that we've talked 512 00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:05,200 about in recent weeks where, you know, Zoran Mamdani and others 513 00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:11,240 won against Republicans, is that actually, it does look like 514 00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:14,440 there is a shift away from Trump with those Hispanic voters. 515 00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:17,760 And there was one thing the president said yesterday that I 516 00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:20,560 thought, oh, you've got to be careful saying things like this. 517 00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:24,600 He said affordability is a hoax. And what he meant by that was 518 00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:27,120 people are not feeling, you know, we're, we're solving it 519 00:27:27,120 --> 00:27:28,880 all. People can't afford things. 520 00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:30,920 The broad team, I think. For all this, whether you're 521 00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:33,840 talking about this country or the United States, is that the 522 00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:37,400 big conversation these days is between societies that we want 523 00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:40,840 want to become more closed and those that are still happy to be 524 00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:44,320 open, whether it's to immigration or to trade or to 525 00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:47,720 international institutions. And America, a country that had 526 00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:51,560 always been, for better or for worse, an example of openness, 527 00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:54,440 has done the opposite, battened down the hatches, pulled up the 528 00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:58,760 drawbridge, whether it's on trade or on on immigration or an 529 00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:01,160 engagement with the rest of the planet in international 530 00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:03,600 institutions. That is really, I think for me, 531 00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:08,880 the essence of Trumpism. And, you know, and it's a new 532 00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:10,600 reality that we all have to get used to. 533 00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:12,960 And in various ways, different foreign leaders are trying to 534 00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:16,720 prize those doors open again. But ultimately, the, the, you 535 00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:19,080 know, the, the, the direction is to close them. 536 00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:23,520 But all this annushka is detracting from the, the, the 537 00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:26,160 spirit of the season, which of course, is not just 538 00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:28,480 Thanksgiving, but, you know, you've got Christmas coming up. 539 00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:31,320 I can only imagine looking at the Oval Office, that it'll be 540 00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:35,960 even richer and more, you know, undigestible than it has been on 541 00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:37,000 previous occasions. Yeah. 542 00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:39,400 I mean the the White House. Decorations are quite something. 543 00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:44,920 75 wreaths, 51 Christmas trees, 700 feet of Garland, 2000 544 00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:46,920 strands of light. More than this is a good one. 545 00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:51,600 10,000 butterflies and especially for you Matt. 120 546 00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:53,400 pounds. 10,000 butterflies are these. 547 00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:55,800 Are these chocolate butterflies or real butterflies? 548 00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:58,400 Or Mar a Lago Gold butter? Yeah, this has got. 549 00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:01,760 Question mark question mark question mark on my link can Can 550 00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:03,920 somebody let me know are they real butterflies? 551 00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:06,280 I have to say one of the. One of the great, you know, we 552 00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:08,840 take a lot of spend a lot of time on this podcast talking 553 00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:10,240 about stuff we don't particularly like. 554 00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:13,880 One thing I really, really liked about America and I really miss 555 00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:18,120 is this sort of other customs, the, the traditions. 556 00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:22,560 And you know, I'm not a believer or I'm nominally Christian. 557 00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:24,280 I think that's what it says on my birth certificate. 558 00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:28,160 But I, I go to church to look at some nice windows or art and, 559 00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:29,280 and maybe listen to a bit of music. 560 00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:32,400 But I'm not even remotely religious, but I do get swept up 561 00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:34,560 in that spirit at this time of year. 562 00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:36,640 And of course, it's not all religious. 563 00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:38,720 Some of it is very secular, like Thanksgiving. 564 00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:42,160 But these sort of holidays, they really punctuate an American 565 00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:45,280 calendar. And again, it's so weird that 566 00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:49,280 you have an administration that's prepared to shred all the 567 00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:52,000 things that we've got used to, to tear up the Constitution to 568 00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:55,400 tiny little pieces and challenge all the nostrums and all the 569 00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:57,240 things that many people took for granted. 570 00:29:57,240 --> 00:29:59,560 But at the same time, you still got all these traditions, and 571 00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:04,520 America is sort of baked in in those traditions, even if 572 00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:07,080 they're sometimes involve putting marshmallows on top of 573 00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:09,640 sweet potatoes. That's also a tradition. 574 00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:13,040 That is it. For this week, I do hope that 575 00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:17,080 people are enjoying the show. If they are, they can subscribe, 576 00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:21,240 they can follow. It would be hugely, hugely 577 00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:23,320 appreciated by us if you do that. 578 00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:26,480 You can also use the comments section wherever you watch or 579 00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:30,240 listen to send us comments and we can talk about some of them 580 00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:31,640 on here. We can indeed. 581 00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:35,160 That's all from us. Thanks For me, Matt. 582 00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:38,800 In London, I'm me, Anushka. In Washington, DC, See you next 583 00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:40,080 week. See you next week.