1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:04,000 I truly believe that these midterm elections will decide 2 00:00:04,000 --> 00:00:08,160 the future for this country. If Trump wins, I I think it's 3 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:10,440 game over. I don't think we can get this 4 00:00:10,440 --> 00:00:13,840 democracy back. The slide into authoritarianism 5 00:00:14,320 --> 00:00:19,000 will be nearly complete. These masked plain clothes ICE 6 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:23,280 agents without warrants or badges taking the lives of Alex 7 00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:26,760 Pretty and Renee Good. That will be a pale preview for 8 00:00:26,760 --> 00:00:29,200 what we are about to see. He also understands the 9 00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:33,240 consequences of losing. I mean those Epstein files, you 10 00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:35,360 know. The full report comes to light. 11 00:00:35,480 --> 00:00:37,560 You just said it's the equivalent, essentially of 12 00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:40,680 taking on the Nazis. People on the right really 13 00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:45,280 object to the use of that type of comparison and language 14 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:48,240 because they say it diminishes is what's happened in the past. 15 00:00:48,400 --> 00:00:55,040 How do you respond to that? Hello and welcome to Trump 16 00:00:55,040 --> 00:00:57,120 World. I'm Anushka Astana in Washington 17 00:00:57,120 --> 00:01:02,640 DC and I'm sad to say that my usual Co host Matt Frey is on 18 00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:04,560 holiday. Lucky him. 19 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:06,960 But good news, I've got an upgrade. 20 00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:10,200 Don't be offended Matt, I've got an upgrade. 21 00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:11,840 Kieran Moodley. Welcome, Kieran. 22 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:13,080 Hello. Thank you for having me, 23 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:14,120 Anushka. And yes, those were your. 24 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:15,760 I'm just going to put it on record that those were your 25 00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:18,000 words about the upgrade. Thank you for having me. 26 00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:19,840 What are we going to be talking about today? 27 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:25,040 Well, I'm told it's 168 days until the midterms, incredibly 28 00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:28,000 consequential midterms. And I've just had a really 29 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:30,320 interesting conversation with Beto O'Rourke, which we're going 30 00:01:30,320 --> 00:01:34,320 to talk about. He was candidate to be senator 31 00:01:34,320 --> 00:01:39,240 in Texas in 2018. Almost but not quite winning the 32 00:01:39,400 --> 00:01:42,520 action against Ted Cruz. He also put himself forward to 33 00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:46,480 be president in 2020. So we've had a very interesting 34 00:01:46,480 --> 00:01:51,000 chat about the future of the party and Kieran. 35 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:55,480 We're also going to be talking about approval ratings. 36 00:01:55,600 --> 00:01:57,720 How is Donald Trump doing right now? 37 00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:02,520 Yes, well, in one word. Well, actually not one word. 3 38 00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:04,120 words. Not very well. 39 00:02:04,440 --> 00:02:07,080 Essentially he is now, according to the latest New York Times 40 00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:10,840 polling, they've got him on 37% approval. 41 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:13,240 Now that's the lowest of his second term. 42 00:02:13,240 --> 00:02:15,400 But then it get kind of gets even worse than that because if 43 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:19,440 you look into the individual topic, so if you take 44 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:22,280 immigration, which obviously is something that he's always been 45 00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:27,880 strong at, he's only, he's got 56% disapproving of him. 46 00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:30,400 And then when you come to the issue of the Iran war, which is 47 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:33,720 obviously, you know, still going on, he's sort of dithering once 48 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:37,080 again about will he strike Iran? Will he not being pulled back. 49 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:41,440 2/3 of Americans are saying they disapprove of the fact that he 50 00:02:41,440 --> 00:02:43,640 went to war against Iran. And when you look at 51 00:02:43,640 --> 00:02:46,320 independence, which I think you were talking about with Beto 52 00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:52,680 O'Rourke, they 73% say that they disapprove of America going to 53 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:55,880 war against Iran. So it's really not looking very 54 00:02:55,880 --> 00:02:58,320 good for Donald, Donald Trump when it comes to those numbers. 55 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:02,240 And you were talking to Beto about, you know, the upcoming 56 00:03:02,920 --> 00:03:04,920 midterms. At the moment, we are, you know, 57 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:06,920 as you say, we are many, many months away. 58 00:03:06,920 --> 00:03:08,840 But at the moment, we've got these primaries happening. 59 00:03:09,520 --> 00:03:11,240 That's when, you know, the political parties, the 60 00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:13,480 Democrats, Republicans are sort of finalizing who's going to run 61 00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:17,240 in these House and Senate races. Donald Trump doesn't seem to be 62 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:20,280 that bothered really about these numbers at all. 63 00:03:21,200 --> 00:03:23,960 And we we can see that because the way that he's going about 64 00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:25,800 what he's doing with the Republican Party is essentially 65 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:27,640 he's not saying let's run on the cost of living. 66 00:03:27,640 --> 00:03:29,600 Let's run on this issue or that issue. 67 00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:33,000 He's basically trying to cement his grip on the party that he's 68 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:36,320 been doing for the last decade. We saw that at the weekend when 69 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:41,080 Bill Cassidy, senator in Louisiana for the past decade, 70 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:44,320 he lost his primary because Donald Trump said he didn't like 71 00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:47,280 him because he actually voted to convict him in the impeachment 72 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:50,200 trial a couple of years ago. Donald Trump's candidate won. 73 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:53,280 And then today, we're speaking ahead of a really pivotal 74 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:56,200 primary in Kentucky, a congressional race there. 75 00:03:56,440 --> 00:03:59,600 Thomas Massie, I mean, you've done loads of amazing work when 76 00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:01,640 it comes to talking to the victims of Jeffrey Epstein. 77 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:04,040 Thomas Massie is one of the congressman who pushed through 78 00:04:04,040 --> 00:04:07,040 that bill to release the Epstein files, the ones which the DOJ 79 00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:09,840 has actually released. He's run on that issue of the 80 00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:13,560 Epstein files, really criticized Pam Bondi, the former attorney 81 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:16,160 general. He's also been very critical 82 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:17,519 recently. It's a very interesting thing 83 00:04:17,519 --> 00:04:20,880 going on where he's been criticizing the role of AIPAC, 84 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:24,040 that is the pro Israel lobby and the fact that they have 85 00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:27,200 funnelled a lot of money against him in the primary, as has 86 00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:30,680 Donald Trump, who's basically pushing to get rid of Thomas 87 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:32,280 Massie because he's causing to any problems. 88 00:04:32,280 --> 00:04:36,480 So we started by talking about these approval numbers. 89 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:38,240 Donald Trump. I mean, I don't know about your 90 00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:39,280 theory. My theory when it comes to 91 00:04:39,280 --> 00:04:41,480 Donald Trump is that he doesn't really care about these 92 00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:42,440 midterms. Really. 93 00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:45,320 It's all about him. It's about him having executive 94 00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:46,800 power. He bypasses Congress the whole 95 00:04:46,800 --> 00:04:48,520 time. And he basically just wants to 96 00:04:48,520 --> 00:04:51,320 be able to be the the big dog when it comes to the Republican 97 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:53,920 Party and have no one speaking out against him. 98 00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:56,040 Yeah, I think both these sort of really interesting things are 99 00:04:56,040 --> 00:04:59,480 happening. I mean, does he care he's not on 100 00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:03,920 the ballot in the midterms, and if he sticks to the American 101 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:06,880 Constitution, he won't be on the ballot in 2028. 102 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:09,720 I mean, Republican strategists are really worried about it. 103 00:05:09,760 --> 00:05:13,920 I mean, they're holed up in hotels talking to Susie Wiles, 104 00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:16,360 the chief of staff in White House, and others, you know, 105 00:05:16,360 --> 00:05:18,080 trying to work out what they do as a party. 106 00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:21,360 And they know that people are, you know, turning against them 107 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:23,520 on the cost of living. Although, like you say that this 108 00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:26,960 kind of interesting divide, yes, independents have really shifted 109 00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:30,160 away from Donald Trump. He still has a pretty high 110 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:32,040 approval rating among Republicans. 111 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:35,400 I mean, really quite high considering, you know, the 112 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:39,080 economic pain that is being caused by the Iran war. 113 00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:43,440 And as you say, like look at these Republican primaries, I 114 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:47,720 mean 1 by 1, any Republican who spoke against Donald Trump when 115 00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:52,600 it came to Jan 6th, 2021 seems to be being picked off Senator 116 00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:56,200 Cassidy, he mentioned is the latest one really comfortably 117 00:05:56,200 --> 00:05:59,240 beaten by a Trump loyalist and in fact pushed into third 118 00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:02,240 position. So absolutely fascinating to see 119 00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:06,400 whether Tom Thomas Massie can actually, but that trend later. 120 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:09,880 And I guess the question then is if he has control of the 121 00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:13,480 Republican Party, but he's still losing independence, what does 122 00:06:13,480 --> 00:06:17,680 it mean for the midterms? Clearly, the money would be on 123 00:06:18,120 --> 00:06:23,600 the Republicans losing the House, less so probably on them 124 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:25,760 losing the Senate. And that will be really 125 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:27,880 consequential. But in the meantime, we're 126 00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:29,600 seeing all this redistricting, aren't we? 127 00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:32,320 I mean, opponents of Donald Trump would basically say he's 128 00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:37,560 trying to rig the vote to make it more likely that he has a 129 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:39,600 chance in the House or his party has a chance. 130 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:42,400 What do you make of it all? Donald Trump has a stranglehold 131 00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:44,520 over the Republican Party, so he gets to choose his candidates. 132 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:47,160 We've been through this before in 2022 in the midterms there 133 00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:50,000 where Donald Trump had, you know, all these candidates he 134 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:51,840 endorsed Carry Lake in Arizona, etcetera. 135 00:06:51,840 --> 00:06:53,520 And they all lost. Because basically, as you say, 136 00:06:53,520 --> 00:06:56,920 you know, you can get your Republican MAGA base come out 137 00:06:56,920 --> 00:06:58,480 and, you know, ensure you have the right candidates. 138 00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:01,240 But when it comes to the actual election, when the Democrats are 139 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:03,160 going to come out and force against you and independents are 140 00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:04,920 against you. So the Democrats obviously, as 141 00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:07,520 you say, feel really confident. But as you say, the 142 00:07:07,520 --> 00:07:10,480 redistricting issue is the real big concern for them because 143 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:12,120 that comes down to what's happened recently with the 144 00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:16,880 Supreme Court decision. So you've been in bum, bum, bum. 145 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:19,640 You've been in Memphis recently looking into this issue. 146 00:07:19,640 --> 00:07:23,760 So I mean just explain what this redistricting issue is about 147 00:07:23,800 --> 00:07:25,080 Anushka. Well, I think there's like, 148 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:27,640 again, two things happening. So there's redistricting 149 00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:30,120 happening all over the country. It began with Texas. 150 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:34,200 It's deeply partisan. Donald Trump began it by asking 151 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:35,840 certain states to go ahead and try. 152 00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:39,280 And redraw their. Political maps in a way that was 153 00:07:39,280 --> 00:07:42,240 going to benefit Republicans. Democrats have been pretty 154 00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:45,000 punchy in response. We've seen pretty big attempts, 155 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:47,880 for example, in California to redistrict in favour of 156 00:07:47,880 --> 00:07:50,280 Democrats. The the argument they make is 157 00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:52,600 you've got to fight fire with fire. 158 00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:55,280 You know, lots of people would say it's all pretty egregious 159 00:07:55,280 --> 00:07:57,280 and we should have a fairer system, full stop. 160 00:07:57,280 --> 00:07:59,680 But something in the middle of that, quite different has 161 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:01,680 happened. And that is that Supreme Court 162 00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:04,040 decision that you mentioned. It has this conservative 163 00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:06,240 majority that he has made sure is on. 164 00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:10,280 It has basically gutted the 1965 Voting Rights Act. 165 00:08:10,400 --> 00:08:14,120 That Voting Rights Act was there because so many things were 166 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:17,160 happening that were trying to disenfranchise Black voters. 167 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:21,360 I mean, really stupid things like you've got to guess how 168 00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:25,240 many Jelly beans are in this jar in order to be able to vote. 169 00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:27,040 There were also poll taxes and so on. 170 00:08:27,040 --> 00:08:28,400 And it tried to make things fairer. 171 00:08:28,400 --> 00:08:31,600 And one of the things it said a Southern state or any state, but 172 00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:34,679 particularly this was happening in Southern states, couldn't do 173 00:08:35,039 --> 00:08:38,760 is take a black majority area and cut it up in every different 174 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:42,039 direction in order to dilute the impact of the black vote. 175 00:08:42,320 --> 00:08:45,200 The Supreme Court decision earlier this month basically 176 00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:48,600 said we're no longer going to assume that that is a racist 177 00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:50,280 act. You've got to prove it's racist. 178 00:08:50,520 --> 00:08:54,360 So if Republicans say it's not racist, it's just partisan, they 179 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:57,600 can go ahead and do it. Is Donald Trump involved in all 180 00:08:57,600 --> 00:08:58,560 of this? Of course he is. 181 00:08:58,560 --> 00:09:01,000 He rang up the governor of Tennessee. 182 00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:04,040 And Memphis was the first place in the country to be targeted. 183 00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:06,960 And so, yeah, I went there. And I have to say, Karen, it was 184 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:10,080 one of the kind of most amazing places I've visited in America 185 00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:14,120 because every single bit of that city is steeped in history. 186 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:17,800 We went to Mason Temple, where Martin Luther King gave his 187 00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:23,040 final speech, which is the famous mountaintop speech, where 188 00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:26,520 he talks about looking over the mountain and seeing the promised 189 00:09:26,520 --> 00:09:28,640 land. And basically, it's quite 190 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:30,200 prophetic. He says he's not sure that he's 191 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:34,040 going to be there with people to get to that point, to that point 192 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:36,160 where racism would be banished in America. 193 00:09:37,120 --> 00:09:39,680 And we went to the place that he was killed. 194 00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:43,000 And, you know, this is a place where preachers, you know, 195 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:47,240 marched, were jailed and died for the civil rights cause. 196 00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:50,040 And it is the first place where they're trying to unwind it. 197 00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:53,280 I did speak to a Republican there, one who'd come to the 198 00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:56,960 vote in the state capital with a Trump flag wrapped around him. 199 00:09:56,960 --> 00:10:00,920 And he argued strongly, it's not about race, it's about politics. 200 00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:03,960 And, you know, I think it is true that Democrats shouldn't 201 00:10:03,960 --> 00:10:06,000 assume that black people are going to vote for them. 202 00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:08,280 But. But do you think when you look 203 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:11,800 at this, that it's kind of an egregious step backwards in 204 00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:14,720 terms of voting rights? For those who don't know 205 00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:18,560 American history and the civil rights movement, or perhaps what 206 00:10:18,560 --> 00:10:21,320 they were told at school is, you know, when it comes to the civil 207 00:10:21,320 --> 00:10:24,000 rights movement, there was always a clear narrative going 208 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:28,120 from, let's say in 1954 when you had Brown versus Board of 209 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:33,240 Education, when the Supreme Court ruled regarding the 210 00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:35,600 integration, the need to integrate schools within the 211 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:37,680 South. And then you had from 54, you 212 00:10:37,680 --> 00:10:39,160 then had the Montgomery Bus Boycott. 213 00:10:39,160 --> 00:10:41,960 Then you have the Freedom Rides. And then you come up to 64, the 214 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:44,240 Civil Rights Act and 65, the Voting Rights Act. 215 00:10:44,240 --> 00:10:46,800 And that was the narrative of the civil rights movement that 216 00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:49,160 you were talked about the struggle which went through 217 00:10:49,160 --> 00:10:50,520 those years. And obviously it went on for, 218 00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:53,320 for, for decades before that. And the Voting Rights Act was 219 00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:55,520 this pivotal piece of legislation which finally gave 220 00:10:55,520 --> 00:11:02,680 black people the ability to vote freely and fairly at a time when 221 00:11:02,680 --> 00:11:05,240 they couldn't. And the, and I think the thing 222 00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:07,760 which needs to be addressed for the audience is the idea that in 223 00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:10,280 all those history books now they almost have to be ripped up 224 00:11:10,280 --> 00:11:14,920 again because that Voting Rights Act has basically been shredded 225 00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:18,120 so much, not just by this recent Supreme Court decision. 226 00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:20,360 There was another one, Shelby versus Holder about a decade 227 00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:22,360 ago. And and that's the point here is 228 00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:26,600 that those things you you were taught about, which was that 229 00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:28,560 struggle which Martin Luther King talked about getting to the 230 00:11:28,560 --> 00:11:30,960 mountaintop, you get to a point where you feel like progress has 231 00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:32,760 been made, has completely gone backwards. 232 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:36,680 It's interesting you talk about learning that history because I, 233 00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:38,600 I wasn't taught that history at all at school. 234 00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:41,040 And now that I've moved here to the US, it's kind of interesting 235 00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:44,720 that I feel like 50% of my children's education here is 236 00:11:44,720 --> 00:11:47,800 basically, you know, the history of civil rights. 237 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:50,000 My one of my sons has gone to Mount Vernon. 238 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:54,480 Today we were talking about, you know, how as a major plantation, 239 00:11:54,960 --> 00:11:57,120 it had so many slaves just before he left. 240 00:11:57,120 --> 00:11:58,480 So yeah, it's quite, it's quite different. 241 00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:01,840 And and that's one of the things I found incredibly enriching and 242 00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:06,080 moving in Memphis was speaking to, you know, you know, people 243 00:12:06,080 --> 00:12:08,720 who had been part of that civil rights movement for their entire 244 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:10,080 lives. And I was really taken by the 245 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:13,520 fact that so many of them were pastors, church leaders. 246 00:12:13,520 --> 00:12:17,200 And I asked one person why Bill, Bill Adkins, doctor Bill Adkins, 247 00:12:17,200 --> 00:12:20,160 he was called and, you know, he was in the room for the Martin 248 00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:22,920 Luther King speech. He's marched with Jesse Jackson. 249 00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:25,560 He has had Barack Obama at his church. 250 00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:28,000 And I said, why is it always coming from the church? 251 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:31,000 And I was told two things. One, because the pulpit is the 252 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:33,480 one place where they felt the black man is free to speak. 253 00:12:33,720 --> 00:12:35,880 You know, no one can stop a black man from speaking from the 254 00:12:35,880 --> 00:12:37,600 pulpit. And secondly, black people 255 00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:39,160 weren't allowed into white churches. 256 00:12:39,320 --> 00:12:44,280 So the churches were the place where they were able to organize 257 00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:47,400 and talk and fight for equal rights. 258 00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:50,800 And I have to say, while we were there, we heard some really 259 00:12:51,160 --> 00:12:54,480 moving comments from people who have been through all of this, 260 00:12:55,320 --> 00:12:58,040 both from people who were there from the start and from, you 261 00:12:58,040 --> 00:13:02,680 know, young black politicians whose hopes now of getting to 262 00:13:02,680 --> 00:13:05,480 Washington, DC, to get into Congress are massively 263 00:13:05,480 --> 00:13:08,240 diminished because the District that they could have won no 264 00:13:08,240 --> 00:13:12,000 longer exists. Every awakening thought of mine 265 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:16,560 now is filled with contempt for what has been done to us. 266 00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:21,120 I'm extremely angry. I never thought I'd see this day 267 00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:25,000 return in America. I grew up as a child riding on 268 00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:28,960 the back of a bus, drinking out of water fountains marked for 269 00:13:29,080 --> 00:13:32,720 colored or white people. I live that life as a child. 270 00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:34,840 That's why I demonstrated. That's why I marched. 271 00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:37,760 That's why I fought. They're trying to bring that day 272 00:13:37,760 --> 00:13:40,000 back. It's like a declaration of war. 273 00:13:40,040 --> 00:13:43,480 The truth of the matter is they cracked our district into three. 274 00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:47,240 Now, I'll only technically be representing 1/3 of Memphis, but 275 00:13:47,240 --> 00:13:49,040 wherever I go, I'm representing Memphis. 276 00:13:49,040 --> 00:13:52,240 And actually, Beto O'Rourke now is working for an organization 277 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:56,320 that is trying to to get the vote out in Texas because that 278 00:13:56,320 --> 00:14:01,000 is 1 state that has gone to huge lengths to try to make it 279 00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:05,000 difficult for people to vote. Let's have a listen to my 280 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:08,600 conversation with him. Thank you for joining us. 281 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:12,200 Can I just start with the kind of broad state of play? 282 00:14:12,520 --> 00:14:17,080 How do you think Trump 2.0 compares to his first term? 283 00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:20,960 Well, I think he's been more reckless. 284 00:14:21,040 --> 00:14:25,840 He's introduced more chaos into this country and into the world. 285 00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:31,400 And we know for a fact that he is less popular now in his 286 00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:34,560 second term approaching this midterm than he was in his first 287 00:14:34,560 --> 00:14:37,560 term approaching the midterm in 2018. 288 00:14:37,560 --> 00:14:41,120 And that presents an extraordinary opportunity for 289 00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:43,760 Democrats and really any American who cares about this 290 00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:46,880 country and believes in democracy and a government of by 291 00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:49,920 and for the people to take this country back. 292 00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:53,480 I, I truly believe that these midterm elections will take 293 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:57,960 place this November, will decide the future for this country. 294 00:14:57,960 --> 00:15:01,480 If Trump wins, I, I think it's game over. 295 00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:04,960 If he if he retains control, the House and the Senate, I don't 296 00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:07,600 think we can get this democracy back. 297 00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:11,680 The slide into authoritarianism will be nearly complete. 298 00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:16,080 If Democrats win, however, I think there will be a reckoning 299 00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:22,240 for Trump's crimes, corruption, these reckless wars that he has 300 00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:25,720 begun, including the war that we are currently in in Iran. 301 00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:32,080 And there will be accountability and justice for his his fellow 302 00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:35,480 cabinet members and oligarchs and the crimes that they have 303 00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:38,000 committed. Those are the stakes of this 304 00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:41,120 election, and I think the president understands that. 305 00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:43,920 I think Democrats are beginning to understand that, and I think 306 00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:47,640 as the American public begins to pay attention to this election, 307 00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:49,280 they're going to understand that as well. 308 00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:51,520 I mean, you say they'll be accountability. 309 00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:53,480 This is a president who has been impeached. 310 00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:56,760 This is a president who has faced multiple charges, who has 311 00:15:56,760 --> 00:16:01,680 been accused of, you know, sexual harassment and who 312 00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:06,480 despite all of that, was voted in and not just voted in with 313 00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:10,600 the Electoral College voted in, you know, on national vote share 314 00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:14,600 in 2024. I mean, how did we get to that 315 00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:17,400 point? What did Democrats do wrong to 316 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:19,480 allow Donald Trump back that way? 317 00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:23,680 I don't know if there's enough time in this program to list 318 00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:26,760 everything that Democrats did wrong and could have done 319 00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:28,640 better. I mean, if you go back to the 320 00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:32,960 2024 election, the fact that there was not more of a 321 00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:38,120 reckoning within the Democratic Party to choose a nominee, not 322 00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:41,960 the then current President Joe Biden, who did an extraordinary 323 00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:46,000 job serving this country in that role, but had no business 324 00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:49,120 running again. And I think most people who are 325 00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:52,480 close to him knew that, didn't share that with the rest of the 326 00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:56,640 party or the American public. Shame on our party for failing 327 00:16:56,640 --> 00:17:00,720 to reckon then, but we should reckon now and make sure that 328 00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:03,880 the candidates that we present, whether in these midterms or in 329 00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:08,119 the 2028 election, are reflective of the urgency of 330 00:17:08,119 --> 00:17:12,240 this moment, of the value shared broadly by the American people, 331 00:17:12,599 --> 00:17:16,800 and are vigorous, aggressive, relentless in pursuing the goals 332 00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:19,200 that will make their lives better. 333 00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:22,480 I think those are the lessons that I've learned certainly from 334 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:25,079 2024 and other mistakes that we've made. 335 00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:28,920 But look, we we have an extraordinary situation right 336 00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:32,760 now where in Texas, for example, one of the key battleground 337 00:17:32,760 --> 00:17:36,680 states going into this midterm, you have for the first time in 338 00:17:36,680 --> 00:17:41,080 50 years, a Democrat running for every State House seat there, 339 00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:45,080 150 of them in Texas, every congressional seat, all 38, 340 00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:48,560 every open state Senate seat, there are 16 of them. 341 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:52,720 We are literally fighting on every front, lessons learned, 342 00:17:52,720 --> 00:17:57,280 lessons being applied, lessons that I think once executed will 343 00:17:57,280 --> 00:18:00,640 lead to victory in these critically important midterms. 344 00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:06,200 And Texas might not only be able to give Democrats power in the 345 00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:09,360 House, but in James Tallarico's race for the United States 346 00:18:09,360 --> 00:18:13,000 Senate against the Republican nominee, it'll either be John 347 00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:16,960 Cornyn or Ken Paxton. You have Anishka, potentially 348 00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:21,960 the 51st vote in the US Senate. So we we have some lessons to 349 00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:23,360 learn. I think we've learned them. 350 00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:26,400 We are now applying them. When we win, we've got to keep 351 00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:28,640 that going. And we've got to use that power 352 00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:31,920 aggressively for the benefit of the American people. 353 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:34,960 I mean, there's so much there I want to unpack and I'm going to 354 00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:37,000 come to it. But just before we go on, you 355 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:42,800 said if Trump as well, if these midterms, you know, swing back 356 00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:47,080 to the Republican side and they retain power, it's game over. 357 00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:50,760 What does Game Over look like? Well, I think that here in 358 00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:53,120 America, and I think most of the rest of the world is watching as 359 00:18:53,120 --> 00:18:57,240 well, we are seeing an unprecedented slide into 360 00:18:57,360 --> 00:19:03,520 authoritarianism, into fascism, into corruption being conducted 361 00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:08,080 in broad daylight at the highest levels of power in including the 362 00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:12,600 president, should his party retain control of Congress in 363 00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:15,520 the House and the Senate. And mind you, he already 364 00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:18,600 controls the United States Supreme Court and many state 365 00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:22,120 houses and governorships across the United States. 366 00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:26,760 I think that the slip or the slide that we are seeing will 367 00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:30,200 inevitably result into a different form of government 368 00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:34,280 altogether in this country. I can imagine a future in the 369 00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:38,400 not too distant future where a Republican majority Congress 370 00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:43,760 rolls out the royal red carpet for a third Trump term, or at 371 00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:48,720 least a term for his MAGA chosen successor without free and fair 372 00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:52,720 elections in the United States. I think these masked plain 373 00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:56,800 clothes ICE agents without warrants or badges who are 374 00:19:56,800 --> 00:20:01,120 rounding up immigrants, U.S. citizens alike, taking the lives 375 00:20:01,120 --> 00:20:04,880 of Alex Pretty and Renee Good in Minneapolis earlier this year 376 00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:08,440 that that will be a pale preview for what we are about to see. 377 00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:12,400 There are 10s of billions of dollars, for example, in new ICE 378 00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:17,080 detention funding passed in that so-called big beautiful bill. 379 00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:20,600 You have record low levels of inbound immigration into this 380 00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:23,320 country, the lowest, in fact, in in American history. 381 00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:25,760 We have record high levels of deportation. 382 00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:29,600 Who are these 10s of billions of dollars of detention capacity 383 00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:33,480 cells being built for if not for the president's political 384 00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:36,320 enemies? We have seen this film play out 385 00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:39,360 before. And so the onus, the the 386 00:20:39,360 --> 00:20:43,800 responsibility is now on all of us as Americans to meet this 387 00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:47,680 challenge as we have before going back 250 years. 388 00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:50,920 Whether it is defeating the British Empire to ensure that we 389 00:20:50,920 --> 00:20:53,920 would never again bow to a king, Whether it's defeating the 390 00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:56,520 armies of the Confederacy to ensure that never again could 391 00:20:56,520 --> 00:20:59,120 one American own the life of another. 392 00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:02,600 Whether it's defeating the Nazis in World War 2 or importantly. 393 00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:04,640 And I know that you were just in Memphis, TN. 394 00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:08,840 And so you understand this history well, in the 1950s and 395 00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:13,360 the 1960s, it was everyday Americans who defeated the armed 396 00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:17,360 and elected thugs of Jim Crow S to ensure that we could have a 397 00:21:17,360 --> 00:21:22,800 Civil Rights Act in 19, 1964, of Voting Rights Act in 1965. 398 00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:27,160 Both of those ushered in by the protesters, everyday citizens 399 00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:31,240 and the first US president from the state of Texas. 400 00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:35,200 So I know we're up against some strong challenges right now, but 401 00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:37,960 I believe that we can overcome them because we have overcome 402 00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:41,760 them before against arguably even greater odds. 403 00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:45,960 But I mean, what you're comparing Donald Trump to there, 404 00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:48,480 it's pretty massive. You just said it's the 405 00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:51,280 equivalent essentially of taking on the Nazis. 406 00:21:52,360 --> 00:21:55,840 People on the right really object to the use of that type 407 00:21:55,880 --> 00:22:00,200 of comparison and language because they say it diminishes 408 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:03,560 what's happened in the past. How do you respond to that? 409 00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:07,880 Well, to be clear, I didn't call Donald Trump a Nazi, nor nor are 410 00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:11,200 his supporters Nazis. In fact, I think one of the 411 00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:14,280 lessons learned for Democrats is that we have to be open to 412 00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:18,080 everyone and we can afford to judge nobody based on their 413 00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:20,800 party preference, based on the presidential candidate that they 414 00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:24,200 voted for last time, based on any meaningless difference 415 00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:26,880 between us. This is a time, especially given 416 00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:31,080 how divided and polarized our country is to come together. 417 00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:33,480 So look if. If but do you but do you see the 418 00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:35,640 scale of the? Challenge on that level. 419 00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:39,680 Absolutely. This is existential, no question 420 00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:42,040 about it, for the United States of America. 421 00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:46,560 Again, if Trump retains these majorities in Congress, I think 422 00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:51,200 this government of, by and for the people is over. 423 00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:53,680 I, I don't believe that we will get it back. 424 00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:57,520 And Anushka, just to remind you, the last time that his hold on 425 00:22:57,520 --> 00:23:01,880 power was challenged and overcome in the 2020 elections, 426 00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:05,840 he incited an insurrection attempt that nearly stopped the 427 00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:09,720 peaceful transfer of power from 1 presidential administration to 428 00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:11,320 another. And he recently mused to the New 429 00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:15,160 York Times that he wish he had asked the National Guard to 430 00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:19,400 seize the ballot boxes and voting machines and regretted 431 00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:23,320 that he hadn't done that before. So past performance is perhaps 432 00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:26,040 the best predictor of future conduct. 433 00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:29,360 And I think we know exactly what this president will do if he has 434 00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:31,400 all levers of power in his hands again. 435 00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:34,800 He also understands the consequences of losing. 436 00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:38,600 I mean, those Epstein files, you know, the full report comes to 437 00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:42,160 light all the details of his crimes and his corruption and 438 00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:44,920 those of his cronies, family members, the Democrats. 439 00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:46,560 Had that information before, Yeah. 440 00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:48,520 What's that? You know, there was a democratic 441 00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:51,920 government before this one which sat on that information and 442 00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:53,880 didn't put it all out there. Absolutely. 443 00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:56,960 And there's there's no defense for that whatsoever. 444 00:23:56,960 --> 00:23:59,960 I just want to make clear that when it comes to the Epstein 445 00:23:59,960 --> 00:24:04,160 files, justice has to be served, especially for the victims, the 446 00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:07,360 girls and the women who are trafficked and raped by Epstein 447 00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:11,320 and other powerful men in this country and from abroad, as we 448 00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:13,840 know from from Prince Andrew's conduct. 449 00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:19,360 And whether that justice means that it's Democrats and or 450 00:24:19,360 --> 00:24:22,440 Republicans, the wealthiest, the most powerful, the most 451 00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:26,080 connected, it doesn't matter. No man Porta, everybody has to 452 00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:29,920 face justice in this country. No one above and no one below 453 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:33,480 the law that that's the the genius of America. 454 00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:37,080 We've never fully lived up to it, but we are so far from it 455 00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:40,360 today and people demand it. So again, Democrat or 456 00:24:40,360 --> 00:24:43,560 Republican, doesn't matter. We all deserve justice in this 457 00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:45,800 country. You sound like someone who wants 458 00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:48,400 to run. No, I'm someone who's in the 459 00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:49,960 arena, though. You know, I haven't run for 460 00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:53,640 office since 2022 when I when I ran for governor here in in 461 00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:56,560 Texas, but I lead an organization called powered by 462 00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:59,040 people comprised of thousands of volunteers. 463 00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:02,240 I'm one of them across the state of Texas who in a state where 464 00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:05,760 there's no online voter registration of automatic voter 465 00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:09,120 registration of same day voter registration and you have the 466 00:25:09,120 --> 00:25:11,880 worst forms of voter suppression and voter intimidation. 467 00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:15,800 We're out there meeting those voters and future voters where 468 00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:18,760 they are, getting them on the rolls, staying in touch with 469 00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:21,400 them and making sure that they can vote. 470 00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:25,120 My feeling, Anishka, is that in a democracy, there are no 471 00:25:25,120 --> 00:25:27,840 sidelines. None of us get to just witness 472 00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:32,040 or or hang out in the stands and pray and hope that that our 473 00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:34,800 side's going to come through. We have to be involved. 474 00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:38,480 We have to take action. It's the antidote to the to the 475 00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:41,640 despair that so many are tempted to feel right now, and I believe 476 00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:45,560 it is the key to victory. Can I like, let's talk about 477 00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:47,800 the, you know, the victory that you're seeking, the victory that 478 00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:51,000 your party is seeking. You know, we talk about approval 479 00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:56,240 ratings and they are low. But when I look at the breakdown 480 00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:58,520 of these approval ratings, I sometimes think. 481 00:25:59,920 --> 00:26:02,760 You know, is it wishful? Thinking among Trump's opponents 482 00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:06,640 because the reality is he remains very popular among 483 00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:10,440 Republican voters. And even his war, which is 484 00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:14,440 obviously impacting on Americans finances in a way that no one 485 00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:18,280 thought was coming, remains quite popular among Republicans, 486 00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:22,200 remains wildly popular. Amongst MAGA Republicans. 487 00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:26,560 That's true. But if if you if if you step 488 00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:29,320 back a little bit and, and get a little more perspective on this, 489 00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:36,240 his approval among the American people on the whole is at 37%. 490 00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:40,520 This is a new low, not just for him, but for any president in 491 00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:44,000 the history of modern American polling. 492 00:26:44,120 --> 00:26:47,280 He's very unpopular amongst independents. 493 00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:51,320 And so you're correct, while he he retains that strong support 494 00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:55,640 from his MAGA base, he has lost the rest of the country. 495 00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:59,280 And to your earlier point about the fortunes of the Democratic 496 00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:04,280 Party and the lessons left to be learned by our party, we're 497 00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:08,360 still ahead by 11 points in what is called the generic ballot. 498 00:27:08,360 --> 00:27:11,920 If generic ballot were presented to the average American, you 499 00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:17,840 know, 11 points difference for, for Democrats over over 500 00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:21,240 Republicans. So the, the thing though, is 501 00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:25,800 that understanding this, Trump and the Republicans are changing 502 00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:29,120 the rules of the game and changing the map on which that 503 00:27:29,120 --> 00:27:33,040 game is being played right now. And they have a chance through 504 00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:35,600 the redistricting that follows the recent Supreme Court 505 00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:39,360 decision in Calais and the gerrymandering that's taking 506 00:27:39,360 --> 00:27:41,640 place in Tennessee and other states of the former 507 00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:44,720 Confederacy. They may have a 10 point 508 00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:49,880 additional or I'm sorry, A10 seats additional advantage going 509 00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:52,360 into these midterms. So it's really going to be 510 00:27:52,360 --> 00:27:53,720 close. It's going to be neck and neck. 511 00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:56,960 If we had been operating under the old maps, slam dunk 512 00:27:56,960 --> 00:27:59,880 Democrats are going to win under these new maps. 513 00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:04,240 It's really going to be coming down to the wire at the end of 514 00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:08,160 the day on March, I'm sorry, on November 3rd of 2026. 515 00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:12,680 And so we Democrats have to do everything we can. 516 00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:16,280 It means talking to, listening to every voter, and not every 517 00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:19,440 likely Democratic voter, but every independent voter and yes, 518 00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:23,120 every Republican voter as well. We all need each other at this 519 00:28:23,120 --> 00:28:25,440 moment of truth or we're not going to come through. 520 00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:27,840 I think in many European countries where Trump's 521 00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:31,960 popularity is really rock bottom and they kind of look at America 522 00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:35,120 in shock at what's taking place, they simply can't believe that 523 00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:38,240 10's and 10's and 10s of millions of people still support 524 00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:39,880 him. Which is why I guess I find some 525 00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:43,720 of those polls very interesting despite the approval rate being 526 00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:45,880 quite low. I mean, you talked about 527 00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:49,080 redistricting. Obviously, what Republicans will 528 00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:51,240 argue is Democrats are at it as well. 529 00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:54,320 But as you mentioned, I have just been to Memphis and it was 530 00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:57,840 quite something to see Republicans target a place so. 531 00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:00,680 Steeped in history first since the Supreme. 532 00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:03,680 Court ripped up the Voting Rights Act. 533 00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:07,680 They've split Memphis into 3A. Black majority seat has gone. 534 00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:10,200 Now there are three black minority seats. 535 00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:13,360 Do you think that that's a racist act? 536 00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:18,560 It is in, in a long history of racism in our politics, in our 537 00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:21,480 elections and in our redistricting. 538 00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:25,800 You know, if you go back to the era before the Civil Rights Act 539 00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:29,160 in in the Voting Rights Act, you had a very similar situation 540 00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:32,800 throughout the Deep South. You have literacy tests, you had 541 00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:35,800 black voters challenge to count the number of Jelly beans in a 542 00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:37,840 jar before they were allowed to register to vote. 543 00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:42,640 And in my home state of Texas from 1923 to 1944, you have the 544 00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:46,360 all white primary where in black and white and state statute it 545 00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:51,280 said if you're black you will not be able to vote in Texas. 546 00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:53,960 So it's important to know that we have been here before and 547 00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:57,520 it's just as important to know that we have over become this 548 00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:00,720 through Supreme Court victories like Smith versus all right, 549 00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:05,480 which in 44 ended the all white primary in Texas or after the 550 00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:08,600 Civil Rights Act was passed, Martin Luther King junior Andrew 551 00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:12,000 Young visited then President Lyndon Baines Johnson said, Mr. 552 00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:13,760 President, thank you for civil rights. 553 00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:17,280 Now it's time to allow our fellow Americans to vote. 554 00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:21,000 And Johnson is reported to have said to them, look, I'd like to, 555 00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:23,760 but I just don't have the power to get this done. 556 00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:27,680 Doctor King, Andrew Young, others left that meeting and 557 00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:29,880 said we've got to get that president some power. 558 00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:33,760 And Anushka, as as you know from your knowledge of American 559 00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:39,040 history, in 1965, the next year there was a March across the 560 00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:44,120 Edmond Pettis Bridge that ensured that the country 561 00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:47,800 understood the stakes of what was happening in America. 562 00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:51,400 It shocked our conscience, allowed LBJ, the presidential 563 00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:54,560 power that he had been missing, to get the Voting Rights Act of 564 00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:59,200 1965 passed into law. So we can overcome these 565 00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:02,840 challenges today because we have overcome them before against 566 00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:05,000 even greater odds. So it's not going to be. 567 00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:07,440 Easy. Are we back at that moment? 568 00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:10,200 I mean, I stood at the Mason Temple in Memphis where where 569 00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:13,760 Martin Luther King gave his final speech where he talked 570 00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:16,120 about seeing the future and seeing the promised land. 571 00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:21,160 Many saw it as an future envisioned where racism didn't 572 00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:22,960 exist in American culture anymore. 573 00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:25,680 It it sounds like you feel like they've turned the clock back. 574 00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:28,440 Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, there's this, 575 00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:32,000 this line often, I think, misinterpreted from Doctor King 576 00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:35,040 about the arc of the moral universe bending towards 577 00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:36,960 justice. I think many of us in this 578 00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:41,640 country just assumed for so long that it would bend on its own, 579 00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:46,480 that we were making progress, perhaps too slowly, on expanding 580 00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:51,000 rights and access and ensuring that this country fully lived up 581 00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:54,880 to its promise to ensure that all of us are created equal and 582 00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:57,160 therefore will be treated equally under the law. 583 00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:00,960 A beautiful concept never fully realized in America, but we all 584 00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:05,000 thought we were marching towards it until the era of Donald Trump 585 00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:08,400 in 2015 and 2016. And what you're seeing right now 586 00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:12,840 is a natural culmination of Trump ISM and MAGA ISM and also 587 00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:16,920 this strain that's been part of America for the last 250 years, 588 00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:21,240 where some will use their power to deny access to power to 589 00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:23,160 others. And it's the civil rights 590 00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:25,600 movement and the voting rights movement that overcame that 591 00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:28,680 before. We need to call on that heritage 592 00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:31,760 in that history and remind ourselves that that struggle, 593 00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:35,480 that sacrifice, that service that has come before has made 594 00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:37,720 this moment possible. We are the errors to all of 595 00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:39,440 that. And what we do with this 596 00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:43,040 inheritance is going to define us in the eyes of history and 597 00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:45,880 will determine what is possible going forward for this country. 598 00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:50,560 So we cannot be found wanting at this moment of truth, and I just 599 00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:53,520 want to make sure that my fellow Americans meet this moment with 600 00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:57,200 the urgency that it demands. If we do, we are going to come 601 00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:01,520 through just like we did before. But for all that low approval 602 00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:04,640 rating that we're talking about, the president seems to have 603 00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:07,400 extraordinary control over his party. 604 00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:12,760 We've seen a senator in Louisiana lose a primary, one of 605 00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:15,240 the few Republicans who actually voted to. 606 00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:18,680 Impeach Donald Trump, who seem to be being picked off 1 by 1. 607 00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:21,920 We've got a whole load of other primaries going on today. 608 00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:24,520 One in Kentucky, where Thomas Massey, who's been such? 609 00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:28,200 A critical vote? Thomas Massey, who's been such a 610 00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:33,440 vocal critic of Donald Trump being primaried by, you know, a 611 00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:38,400 Trump loyalist. Has the Republican Party changed 612 00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:40,160 forever? Because of Donald Trump. 613 00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:45,680 The Republican Party today is Donald Trump, and I think that 614 00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:49,320 bodes well for Democrats. It bodes well for the elections 615 00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:53,080 in in November. With his approval rating at 37%, 616 00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:57,000 having every single Republican on the ballot tied to him is 617 00:33:57,000 --> 00:34:00,560 exactly what Democrats want. Now, to be clear, it is not 618 00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:04,120 going to be enough just to be against Donald Trump. 619 00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:08,159 As alluring as that strategy might be for some, Democrats 620 00:34:08,159 --> 00:34:12,920 must also offer a compelling alternative to the the chaos, 621 00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:17,400 the corruption, the criminality of this current Trump regime. 622 00:34:17,679 --> 00:34:22,440 But Anushka, I like the fact that, you know, Senator Cassidy 623 00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:25,280 was just knocked off in in Louisiana because of Donald 624 00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:29,239 Trump, that those state reps in Iowa who held strong against 625 00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:31,120 Trump gerrymandering have been knocked off. 626 00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:36,040 That party is fully owned by Donald Trump and tied to him for 627 00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:39,159 the foreseeable future. Democrats have to make the most 628 00:34:39,159 --> 00:34:43,400 of that, and if we do and offer a compelling alternative to his 629 00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:46,800 failed governance, we are going to win these important elections 630 00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:49,000 in the midterm. Although have you got a 631 00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:51,520 compelling narrative? Who is the person who's leading 632 00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:53,120 that narrative? We have a situation at the 633 00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:56,199 moment where establishment figures like Chuck Schumer have 634 00:34:56,199 --> 00:34:59,440 tried to block what many see as exciting new candidates, for 635 00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:01,960 example in a state like Maine. Yeah, You know what? 636 00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:05,640 I I think this is actually a positive thing for Democrats, 637 00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:07,640 for there not to be a defined national leader. 638 00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:11,520 We had a defined national leader coming out of the 2022 midterms, 639 00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:15,600 and that was Joe Biden. And the lack of competition for 640 00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:20,960 ideas and experience and vision for this country really hobbled 641 00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:24,400 us going into the 2024 presidential election and the 642 00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:26,640 congressional elections down ballot. 643 00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:29,720 So this fierce competition going on right now between, as you 644 00:35:29,720 --> 00:35:32,520 mentioned, you know, Chuck Schumer, leader of the old 645 00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:35,760 guard, the Minority Leader in the US Senate, and someone like 646 00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:39,480 Graham Plattner, who is this insurgent candidate in Maine who 647 00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:43,240 offers us one of our best hopes of a majority in the US Senate, 648 00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:45,480 is exactly what we need right now. 649 00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:49,160 And that's playing out all across this country, down to the 650 00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:52,880 county commissioner level in local elections, up to 651 00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:55,040 congressional and Senate elections. 652 00:35:55,240 --> 00:35:58,480 And out of that, I am confident we're going to see the leaders 653 00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:01,600 that we need going into the 2028 election. 654 00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:06,320 So this is kind of a laboratory for Democrats and for democracy 655 00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:09,000 all across the country. It's the kind of competition 656 00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:13,120 that we need to select the winning candidates, the winning 657 00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:15,680 messages and the winning connections to the American 658 00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:19,640 voters in order to prevail in 2026 and in 2028. 659 00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:24,240 I mean, you say if Democrats take back, you know, the Senate, 660 00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:27,320 maybe the House, the big change will come. 661 00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:30,680 But isn't Congress very weakened at this moment? 662 00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:34,000 I mean, we've seen use of executive power like we've 663 00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:37,720 almost never seen before. Well, to to put a point to it, 664 00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:43,240 we are illegally at war with the country of Iran right now. 665 00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:47,640 There is a clear law that says within 60 days of the 666 00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:50,720 commencement of hostilities like those that we are in right now, 667 00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:55,640 the president must come back to Congress to either approve that 668 00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:59,360 war or to end military operations. 669 00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:01,200 I mean. You say that, but I stood in a 670 00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:03,600 briefing room the other day listening to Marco Rubio, who 671 00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:07,440 said we don't think the War Powers Act is constitutional. 672 00:37:07,720 --> 00:37:10,920 And you know, we'll, we'll nod to Congress, but we don't need 673 00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:13,840 to do anything more than that. That's government by Fiat. 674 00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:16,800 That's that's the the president and in this case the Secretary 675 00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:20,600 of State saying what the Constitution will allow them to 676 00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:24,960 do or not do versus Congress, which is vested with that power 677 00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:28,400 in the first article of that Constitution exclusively with 678 00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:33,240 that power to be able to declare war or to end hostilities in 679 00:37:33,240 --> 00:37:35,280 this case. And if we need a referee to 680 00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:38,320 decide the outcome, that is for the courts. 681 00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:41,960 But to your point, this Congress, which is led by 682 00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:46,360 Republicans, has been absolutely servile, has has done nothing, 683 00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:49,880 has not lifted a finger when the president has destroyed 684 00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:53,520 congressionally chartered agencies like USAID, which has 685 00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:58,880 dismantled departments also created and funded by the United 686 00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:03,360 States Congress. And, and in its most solemn and 687 00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:06,080 important responsibility, going to war. 688 00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:09,000 You know, the taking of of the lives of others, putting 689 00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:12,760 American lives at risk and and losing them as we have so far in 690 00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:15,440 Iran. It has been absolutely crickets. 691 00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:17,400 But but, Anushka, I think you have seen that. 692 00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:20,680 I think the American people pushing back on this have begun 693 00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:24,080 to awaken the will and the conscience of members of 694 00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:25,840 Congress. You have Republican senators 695 00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:28,920 joining almost every Democrat, with the exception of Senator 696 00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:33,480 Federman, to try to stop this president's illegal war in Iran. 697 00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:36,480 So, you know, never count the American people out in the 698 00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:39,920 public sentiment, as Abraham Lincoln said, is everything. 699 00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:42,960 And public sentiment in America has been awakened, and we are 700 00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:46,960 about to see its full force felt by the president and those in 701 00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:50,040 power. And just on Texas, I mean, there 702 00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:52,760 was a lot of excitement around your run in 2018. 703 00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:55,840 You were the kind of great hope, the great future. 704 00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:58,040 You did really well, but you didn't win. 705 00:38:58,280 --> 00:39:00,520 Is Texas unwinnable for Democrats? 706 00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:03,560 Texas is very winnable. You know, as I mentioned, we we 707 00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:06,080 have candidates at every position on the ballot for the 708 00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:10,000 first time in half a century. That's huge because those 709 00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:14,480 candidates in the far-flung 254 counties of Texas will bring in 710 00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:16,840 new voters who otherwise wouldn't participate. 711 00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:20,320 And those candidates may not win the local State House election, 712 00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:23,000 But those voters will send their votes up to the top of the 713 00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:26,160 ticket to ensure that. James Tallarico is the first 714 00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:30,920 Democrat elected to Senate from the state since 1988 and the 715 00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:34,800 51st vote in the US Senate. Donald Trump is more unpopular 716 00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:39,920 today in his second midterm that he was when I ran in his first. 717 00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:44,240 And his party is mired in so much corruption, so many crimes, 718 00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:47,440 so many unpopular policies like cutting people's health care, 719 00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:52,280 tax breaks to billionaires, wars in Iran, wars of choice that are 720 00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:57,720 costing this country 1 to $1.5 billion a day. 721 00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:00,120 There's going to be a reckoning for this. 722 00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:01,440 There's going to be an accounting. 723 00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:03,960 And as long as we are fighting on every front, giving this 724 00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:06,880 everything we have, I believe we're going to come through. 725 00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:09,440 He's really going for James Talarico. 726 00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:11,280 I mean, it's going to feel very personal. 727 00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:14,080 It's going to be very difficult for him, isn't it, personally? 728 00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:17,120 You know, I think it's because the president and the 729 00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:19,680 Republicans in power understand the stakes of this. 730 00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:22,560 So they're going to do everything they can to stop him. 731 00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:26,440 You've seen when he went on Colbert, when he later went on 732 00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:31,160 The View the president's team and Cabinet officials tried to 733 00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:35,160 shut down those programs and revoke their FCC licenses. 734 00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:37,960 So you're absolutely right. And that's just the beginning. 735 00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:40,680 That's just the the, you know, the ante to the game. 736 00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:44,240 I would not be surprised, and you shouldn't be either, if the 737 00:40:44,240 --> 00:40:47,960 president sends federal ICE and Border Patrol agents to polling 738 00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:52,600 stations in October, in November, if he again tries to 739 00:40:52,600 --> 00:40:56,400 cancel mail in voting, which he's already attempted to do, If 740 00:40:56,400 --> 00:41:00,160 he questions the voting rights of naturalized citizens, 741 00:41:00,240 --> 00:41:03,280 something that we can anticipate and other things that we may not 742 00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:07,200 be able to predict, like using the United States military or 743 00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:10,960 the National Guard to interfere in free and fair elections. 744 00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:13,080 So all of that may be coming our way. 745 00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:16,840 So we've got to give everything we can to overcome that, doing 746 00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:21,000 what we can with what we have, wherever we are in America, in 747 00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:24,320 our case right here in Texas. What do you say to their 748 00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:27,600 argument that what's wrong with having to show ID elections? 749 00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:32,360 You know, why should people be nervous if they have every right 750 00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:34,280 to vote? And there's nothing wrong with 751 00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:35,400 it. In fact, in Texas, you're 752 00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:38,480 required to show an ID. I show an ID every time I vote. 753 00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:42,080 I have no problem with that. What The problem would be if the 754 00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:46,440 president seeks to intimidate people who are peacefully and 755 00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:49,480 legally trying to vote by purging their names from the 756 00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:51,320 voter rolls. This has happened before. 757 00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:54,120 Naturalized citizens, meaning people who are not born in the 758 00:41:54,120 --> 00:41:58,000 United States, but it become citizens, naturalized here 759 00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:01,360 trying to vote, being purged from the voter rolls and having 760 00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:04,360 to prove their citizenship, perhaps in front of a Border 761 00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:06,680 Patrol agent at the polling location. 762 00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:09,600 We can imagine our fellow citizens saying, you know what 763 00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:11,920 the hell with that? I'm not going to go through this 764 00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:13,760 challenge. I don't want to risk being taken 765 00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:17,360 away by a Border Patrol or ICE agent because it has happened to 766 00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:21,160 other U.S. citizens and legal permanent residents in this 767 00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:23,440 country. So the the attempt to 768 00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:26,480 intimidate, the intent to suppress the vote, it's not a 769 00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:29,440 matter of if this is going to happen, it's going to be a 770 00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:31,480 question of the form that it's going to take. 771 00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:34,920 And we have to be ready for it. And that's again, why so many of 772 00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:38,240 us, including the volunteers in our group powered by people, are 773 00:42:38,240 --> 00:42:41,560 organizing all over the state and not waiting till October and 774 00:42:41,560 --> 00:42:43,400 November. We're doing it now and May. 775 00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:46,160 We've been doing it all year and the year before that. 776 00:42:46,160 --> 00:42:48,040 This is the election of our lifetimes. 777 00:42:48,040 --> 00:42:50,280 The stakes could not be any higher. 778 00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:54,320 Do you do you think that what they've done with ICE has put 779 00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:57,560 off Latino voters across Texas? Do you think it has had an 780 00:42:57,560 --> 00:42:59,040 impact? Because obviously there was 781 00:42:59,040 --> 00:43:02,520 quite big support among that community for Trump in 2024. 782 00:43:02,760 --> 00:43:05,880 Absolutely And and this has been documented in polling, the 783 00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:09,080 president's support amongst Latino voters that is melting 784 00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:12,840 away, but it's also initiative been demonstrated in recent 785 00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:14,760 elections. We had a special election in 786 00:43:14,760 --> 00:43:17,160 Tarrant County. Tarrant County is the home to 787 00:43:17,160 --> 00:43:22,920 Fort Worth, TX, and it is referred to as the last large, 788 00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:26,680 reliably urban district in the United States of America. 789 00:43:26,680 --> 00:43:33,000 Trump won Tarrant County by 17 points in the 2024 election, but 790 00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:36,680 a Democrat just won Tarrant County by 14 points. 791 00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:41,760 It's a 31 point swing from the end of 2024 to the beginning of 792 00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:46,000 2026 in Southeast Texas and Brazoria County, another very 793 00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:49,440 red Republican. MAGA County, a Democrat, 794 00:43:49,520 --> 00:43:54,520 Democrat Quentin Wilts, just won mayorship of Pearland, TX in 795 00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:56,240 Brazoria County. That just happened a couple of 796 00:43:56,240 --> 00:43:59,080 weeks ago. So in the polling, in the actual 797 00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:02,160 elections where voters demonstrate their preference and 798 00:44:02,160 --> 00:44:05,360 overwhelmingly in those constituencies, Mexican American 799 00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:09,560 Latino voters are voting for the Democrat and not voting for the 800 00:44:09,560 --> 00:44:12,320 president's party. Now, we can't rest on that. 801 00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:15,160 We can't assume that that trajectory will follow all the 802 00:44:15,160 --> 00:44:17,760 way through to November 3rd. We have to go out there, fight 803 00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:21,000 for and earn every one of those votes, but again, I'm confident 804 00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:23,240 that if we put in the work, we will win. 805 00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:24,880 You think James Talarico is going to win? 806 00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:28,240 I read a report that suggested you might be Pete Green with 807 00:44:28,240 --> 00:44:30,480 envy about him. Is that fair? 808 00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:33,160 No, I'm so excited for James Talarico. 809 00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:35,600 I've been excited for the guy for as long as I've known him, 810 00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:38,160 since he was elected the same year that I was running for U.S. 811 00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:41,960 Senate to the State House, where he beat an incumbent Republican, 812 00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:45,200 A guy who had no business running in the 1st place, and he 813 00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:47,640 won. Through hard work and his genius 814 00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:51,000 at connecting and communicating with voters, he's bringing that 815 00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:53,520 to bear in this U.S. Senate race. 816 00:44:53,640 --> 00:44:57,600 He's electrifying the country and he's giving us our best shot 817 00:44:57,600 --> 00:45:02,400 in Texas, not only in having a Democrat represent us in the US 818 00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:06,920 Senate, but literally saving the country by being that 51st vote. 819 00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:10,720 So I will continue to do everything I possibly can to 820 00:45:10,720 --> 00:45:14,320 make sure that he's successful, that he wins and he's able to 821 00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:16,440 deliver for Texas and for the country. 822 00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:21,960 And you sound like someone who's really thought about this moment 823 00:45:21,960 --> 00:45:25,560 in time that believes the Democratic Party needs to have a 824 00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:28,680 reckoning that has, I think, from the sound of what you're 825 00:45:28,680 --> 00:45:31,400 saying, some of the answers. I know you said you're playing 826 00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:34,600 your part right now. Do you still have ambitions to 827 00:45:34,600 --> 00:45:36,960 run one day? Could we see you as a name in 828 00:45:36,960 --> 00:45:37,840 2028? You. 829 00:45:38,040 --> 00:45:40,560 Know I'm going to continue to try to do whatever I think is 830 00:45:40,560 --> 00:45:43,720 most useful and helpful for the country right now. 831 00:45:43,720 --> 00:45:46,200 That's a volunteer leading powered by people. 832 00:45:46,720 --> 00:45:49,960 If if it means being a candidate and put my name on the ballot, 833 00:45:50,320 --> 00:45:54,760 I'm happy to do that again. I just strongly believe that 834 00:45:54,760 --> 00:45:58,360 this moment calls for each of us to do whatever we can with 835 00:45:58,360 --> 00:46:02,000 whatever we've got, wherever we are in in the country. 836 00:46:02,040 --> 00:46:04,560 And so the form really doesn't matter to me. 837 00:46:05,160 --> 00:46:07,640 It's putting in the work it's coming through and also 838 00:46:07,640 --> 00:46:10,200 understanding to to the. Must matter a bit. 839 00:46:10,360 --> 00:46:12,040 I mean, you've got ambitions to be president. 840 00:46:12,040 --> 00:46:13,680 We know that it must matter a bit. 841 00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:15,600 I mean, it does make a difference whether you're the 842 00:46:15,600 --> 00:46:17,760 volunteer or. The guy in the White House. 843 00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:21,840 You know what, as as long as I'm in the arena, it really doesn't 844 00:46:21,840 --> 00:46:23,560 matter to me the the form that it takes. 845 00:46:23,560 --> 00:46:25,960 You know, you mentioned that the Senate race that we ran against 846 00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:30,920 Ted Cruz in 2018, where we got so close, I did not win. 847 00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:33,560 But I think because of the effort on the part of all the 848 00:46:33,560 --> 00:46:36,720 Democrats who are running in Texas that year, there was a sea 849 00:46:36,720 --> 00:46:40,320 change in our state. I mentioned James Talarico won 850 00:46:40,320 --> 00:46:44,000 in that year, but so did 11 other insurgent Democrats who 851 00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:48,680 defeated incumbent Republicans for the State House. 17 Black 852 00:46:48,680 --> 00:46:52,360 women won election to judicial positions in Harris County, home 853 00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:55,560 to Houston, TX, the most diverse city in America, literally 854 00:46:55,560 --> 00:46:57,640 changing the face of criminal justice. 855 00:46:58,040 --> 00:47:01,640 And from our efforts those years, you've seen candidates, 856 00:47:02,440 --> 00:47:06,640 volunteers, campaign managers, people who are working on these 857 00:47:06,640 --> 00:47:08,480 critically important elections right now. 858 00:47:08,480 --> 00:47:11,800 So that was a lesson to me that the work matters no matter the 859 00:47:11,800 --> 00:47:15,040 short term outcome. We've got to be in this fight 860 00:47:15,040 --> 00:47:18,080 for as long as it takes. And knowing what we know of 861 00:47:18,080 --> 00:47:20,960 American history, that fight will never end. 862 00:47:20,960 --> 00:47:23,480 That there is no victory that is final. 863 00:47:23,480 --> 00:47:28,320 The Civil Rights Act, the Voting Rights Act, Roe versus Wade, the 864 00:47:28,360 --> 00:47:31,200 the idea that we have a representative democracy. 865 00:47:31,440 --> 00:47:33,760 We, we can never rest on previous victories. 866 00:47:33,760 --> 00:47:35,520 We always have to be in the struggle. 867 00:47:35,720 --> 00:47:37,960 We always have to be in the fight, and the sooner we 868 00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:41,680 understand that and accept that, then the more joy that we can 869 00:47:41,680 --> 00:47:43,800 bring to the work because it will never be the expectation 870 00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:46,680 that we're done with it. This is just what we do in 871 00:47:46,680 --> 00:47:50,320 America if we want to preserve what Lincoln called the last 872 00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:53,680 best hope of Earth. And that's exactly what we're 873 00:47:53,680 --> 00:47:56,080 doing right now. Beto, thank you so much for your 874 00:47:56,080 --> 00:47:57,240 time. Thank you. 875 00:47:58,280 --> 00:48:01,480 So that was Beto O'Rourke, and I have to take care. 876 00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:04,120 And it sounded to me like he's a man who might want to run for 877 00:48:04,120 --> 00:48:07,640 president again. I mean, just on that, but also, 878 00:48:08,360 --> 00:48:10,600 you know, he was arguing. It's fine that the Democrats 879 00:48:10,600 --> 00:48:13,120 don't really have a leader and that they're disagreeing about 880 00:48:13,120 --> 00:48:15,120 stuff at the moment. But doesn't it leave a bit of a 881 00:48:15,120 --> 00:48:18,440 vacuum when it comes to taking on someone like Donald Trump? 882 00:48:18,760 --> 00:48:23,080 Yeah, potentially and I and I guess the the the concern always 883 00:48:23,080 --> 00:48:25,720 with with a kind of primary like that is if if there are all 884 00:48:25,720 --> 00:48:29,600 these voices and there isn't a clear, you know, front runner, 885 00:48:29,760 --> 00:48:33,080 you then have a party that is completely, you know, engaged in 886 00:48:33,080 --> 00:48:37,040 those of infighting. But I think actually the way I 887 00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:39,920 might look at it is also possibly in a better O Rourke 888 00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:42,440 way, which is that, you know, there is this theory that the 889 00:48:42,600 --> 00:48:46,400 the Democrats have never really had a proper presidential 890 00:48:47,840 --> 00:48:51,880 primary where voters have felt they've had a real say since 891 00:48:51,880 --> 00:48:53,240 Barack Obama. Because if we think about it, 892 00:48:53,240 --> 00:48:56,400 since Barack Obama when he, you know, came, came out of nowhere 893 00:48:56,400 --> 00:49:01,240 and defeated Hillary Clinton in 2008, you then had 2016 where 894 00:49:01,240 --> 00:49:03,080 Hillary was essentially the the anointed 1. 895 00:49:03,480 --> 00:49:05,320 You know, even though many people wanted Bernie Sanders and 896 00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:07,520 many people thought, you know, it was Democratic Party, it was 897 00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:12,080 going back to the old days of, you know, men in, you know, 898 00:49:12,080 --> 00:49:14,760 closed offices with cigars deciding who became the nominee 899 00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:17,040 like they used to do. So they chose Hillary Clinton. 900 00:49:17,040 --> 00:49:19,960 And Biden came along in 2020 and he remember he lost the first 901 00:49:19,960 --> 00:49:21,960 couple of primaries. And then there was this real 902 00:49:22,080 --> 00:49:25,240 push from the establishment to give, to make Biden be the one. 903 00:49:25,240 --> 00:49:26,880 And then you have Kamala Harris in 2024. 904 00:49:26,880 --> 00:49:28,920 There was no primary because Biden dropped out. 905 00:49:29,120 --> 00:49:31,520 So that I do agree. But I wrote that it really feels 906 00:49:31,520 --> 00:49:34,160 like the Democratic Party, which is which has been going through 907 00:49:34,160 --> 00:49:36,960 so many shifts and twists in the last decade that there was a 908 00:49:36,960 --> 00:49:40,440 real sense amongst their the grass roots, they haven't really 909 00:49:40,440 --> 00:49:42,920 had a say on where they want the party to go. 910 00:49:42,920 --> 00:49:45,840 And I think those discussions, you know, when people like James 911 00:49:45,840 --> 00:49:52,880 Tallarico in Texas are offering in some ways the Bernie Sanders 912 00:49:52,880 --> 00:49:54,760 model, but slightly different. Because I think that's the 913 00:49:54,760 --> 00:49:57,040 problem with the Democrats. You know, ever since 2016 when 914 00:49:57,040 --> 00:50:02,440 Bernie was kind of shifted aside and you had this real fight for 915 00:50:02,440 --> 00:50:05,560 sort of, you know, working fast Midwestern American votes, which 916 00:50:05,560 --> 00:50:09,040 Donald Trump always managed to get, you know, that idea of 917 00:50:09,040 --> 00:50:10,760 having the sort of Bernie Sanders, you know, the 918 00:50:10,760 --> 00:50:13,800 billionaires tax the rich. What we've seen with Mamdani 919 00:50:13,800 --> 00:50:16,240 Talarico offers that, but, you know, not with the same sort of 920 00:50:16,440 --> 00:50:19,040 socialist by but more, you know, with the sort of Christian 921 00:50:19,160 --> 00:50:21,160 cloak. So I think that could actually 922 00:50:21,160 --> 00:50:24,200 be really positive for Democrats and where they where they want 923 00:50:24,200 --> 00:50:26,160 to go. I guess for you, though, do you 924 00:50:26,160 --> 00:50:32,080 think Beto as someone who you know, was seen as sort of the 925 00:50:32,080 --> 00:50:35,160 darling of the Democrats when he almost beat Ted Cruz and then 926 00:50:35,480 --> 00:50:37,360 went for presidency and then completely failed? 927 00:50:37,360 --> 00:50:39,880 Is he, does he really think he wants to come back after all 928 00:50:39,880 --> 00:50:40,320 this time? I. 929 00:50:41,480 --> 00:50:43,360 Mean, he didn't say, yeah, sign me up. 930 00:50:43,880 --> 00:50:48,800 But, you know, he was basically clearly someone who felt like if 931 00:50:49,400 --> 00:50:52,560 the moment came and he feels like that's the most helpful 932 00:50:52,560 --> 00:50:54,160 thing to do. I mean, he was trying to 933 00:50:54,160 --> 00:50:57,080 basically say there's no real, you know, I want to be involved 934 00:50:57,080 --> 00:50:59,240 whether I'm in the White House or whether I'm a volunteer in 935 00:50:59,240 --> 00:51:04,480 Texas, which is obviously, you know, masking some of the 936 00:51:04,520 --> 00:51:07,240 ambition that we know from his previous attempts. 937 00:51:07,240 --> 00:51:09,760 He definitely sounded like someone who thought he had some 938 00:51:09,760 --> 00:51:12,680 of the answers that he could put forward, but also someone who 939 00:51:12,680 --> 00:51:15,960 was being very clubable. So very positive about James 940 00:51:15,960 --> 00:51:19,280 Talarico, very positive, for example, about Graham Plattner, 941 00:51:19,280 --> 00:51:25,320 who is the, you know, candidate now in Maine for Senate who 942 00:51:25,440 --> 00:51:27,960 really came up against his party's establishment. 943 00:51:27,960 --> 00:51:29,960 They didn't think he could win. I mean, you know, when you 944 00:51:29,960 --> 00:51:33,400 mentioned like the way Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden and then 945 00:51:33,400 --> 00:51:36,760 Kamala Harris were chosen, I feel like one thing voters can't 946 00:51:36,760 --> 00:51:39,480 bear, And I think this is actually true in the UK and a 947 00:51:39,480 --> 00:51:42,920 risk probably for an Andy Burnham as it is here in the US 948 00:51:42,920 --> 00:51:45,920 is they can't barest sense of entitlement. 949 00:51:46,320 --> 00:51:49,440 And they, you know, trust in politics is absolutely rock 950 00:51:49,440 --> 00:51:52,400 bottom. And, you know, I think where I 951 00:51:52,400 --> 00:51:54,920 definitely think it's right is the idea that there wouldn't 952 00:51:54,920 --> 00:51:57,800 have been a primary, that there can't even be an argument about 953 00:51:57,920 --> 00:52:01,680 who gets to stand. Just seemed too much of A stitch 954 00:52:01,680 --> 00:52:04,880 up in back rooms. I mean, the debate remains 955 00:52:04,880 --> 00:52:09,160 though, and where politically a party has to be in order to win. 956 00:52:09,480 --> 00:52:11,760 And, you know, there are obviously those on the centrist 957 00:52:11,760 --> 00:52:14,320 wing of the Democrat Party, Democratic Party, who think 958 00:52:14,320 --> 00:52:16,440 that, you know, those on the left can't win. 959 00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:18,640 But I think that you can almost divide that into another two 960 00:52:18,640 --> 00:52:22,320 sections, which is those on the left who may be arguing about 961 00:52:22,960 --> 00:52:26,120 identity politics, for example, which Donald Trump is attacking 962 00:52:26,120 --> 00:52:28,840 all the time. And those who bring a kind of 963 00:52:30,080 --> 00:52:35,200 populist left wing economic idea, which is, you know, if you 964 00:52:35,200 --> 00:52:37,480 listen to Graham Plattner, for example, he's talking about 965 00:52:37,480 --> 00:52:39,840 organized labour. And and it's interesting you 966 00:52:39,840 --> 00:52:44,320 mentioned how James Talarico has the cloak of the church and you 967 00:52:44,320 --> 00:52:47,400 know, that that makes him a kind of acceptable candidate, I 968 00:52:47,400 --> 00:52:48,720 guess, in the eyes of Republicans. 969 00:52:48,720 --> 00:52:52,120 Or many might argue, you know, Graham Plattner in, you know, 970 00:52:52,120 --> 00:52:55,480 similarly former military. And I guess they're all kind of 971 00:52:55,480 --> 00:52:57,400 grappling for how you get this right. 972 00:52:57,400 --> 00:52:59,800 The problem is, I think most people think they can't afford 973 00:52:59,800 --> 00:53:02,400 to get is it wrong because the stakes are so high? 974 00:53:02,400 --> 00:53:04,880 Yes, democracy or bust, as Beto O'Rourke said to you, 975 00:53:04,880 --> 00:53:07,160 essentially. Democracy or bust. 976 00:53:07,160 --> 00:53:11,040 I think you've just like summed it up in 3 words, which feels 977 00:53:11,040 --> 00:53:15,320 like a good moment to head off. I will be back here in 978 00:53:15,320 --> 00:53:19,640 Washington, DC next week, Kieran. 979 00:53:19,640 --> 00:53:20,600 Thank you very much for having me. 980 00:53:20,600 --> 00:53:23,000 Thank you for coming on. Bye for Trump World. 981 00:53:23,000 --> 00:53:23,800 We'll see you next week.