1 00:00:00,360 --> 00:00:04,520 We can see it, Matt, with our eyes, but they immediately tried 2 00:00:04,520 --> 00:00:06,160 to argue that he was a domestic terrorist. 3 00:00:06,160 --> 00:00:10,200 To me, Matt, this feels chilling, dystopian, like we 4 00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:12,840 were living in another world. The scenes on the streets of 5 00:00:12,840 --> 00:00:16,480 Minneapolis for some time have felt to me otherworldly. 6 00:00:16,520 --> 00:00:20,520 I find it extraordinary, actually, that anyone in a 7 00:00:20,520 --> 00:00:23,360 position of power would do anything other than sit back and 8 00:00:23,360 --> 00:00:25,120 say, let an investigation take place. 9 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:28,160 But the reality is if the federal government don't want to 10 00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:31,480 do it, then federal officers will be very easily protected in 11 00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:34,120 these cases and there will not be justice for either Renee 12 00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:43,240 Nicole Good or for Alex Pretty. Hello and welcome to Trump 13 00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:45,120 World. I'm Anushka Astana and I'm in 14 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:48,480 Minneapolis. And I'm a try and I'm in warm 15 00:00:48,480 --> 00:00:50,120 and slightly grey London. Anushka. 16 00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:55,720 I gather it's -18 where you are, but it feels like -27. 17 00:00:55,880 --> 00:01:01,520 It is so shockingly cold, I'm basically walking around in full 18 00:01:01,640 --> 00:01:03,440 ski gear. And actually when I was talking 19 00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:07,280 to you on the news yesterday, I had to take my thumb out of my 20 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:11,920 glove just to scroll on my phone in case anything changed while I 21 00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:14,680 was on air. And I honestly thought I might 22 00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:17,440 get frostbite on that farm. On that farm, you need new 23 00:01:17,440 --> 00:01:19,200 gloves, those gloves that allow you to score. 24 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:20,920 Now, you've been there. I mean, you've been to 25 00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:23,440 Minneapolis quite a few times, but but you've really been there 26 00:01:23,440 --> 00:01:27,800 at a crucial time. It seems to be the epicentre of 27 00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:31,280 everything that's going on in Trump's domestic revolution. 28 00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:35,120 And yesterday we had a little bit of a change of tune and 29 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:37,760 change of tone from the White House when, you know, there, 30 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:39,560 there were conversations being had. 31 00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:41,960 You know, there seems to be some kind of drawback from the Trump 32 00:01:41,960 --> 00:01:45,160 administration after the killing of Alex Preti at the weekend. 33 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:49,160 Tell us about that. A very dramatic change in tone 34 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:51,600 for sure. The Trump administration 35 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:55,840 definitely totally rattled by the reaction to the killing of 36 00:01:55,880 --> 00:01:58,680 Alex Preti, which we're going to talk about. 37 00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:03,560 I'd like to talk as we go through why Alex Preti has acted 38 00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:06,520 as a turning point in a way that Rene Nicole Goode, who was 39 00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:10,000 killed here just a few weeks ago when we were here as well, was 40 00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:12,440 not. They know they went too far. 41 00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:16,360 They have angered not only their opponents, including the 42 00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:19,280 protesters we've seen here on the streets in those bitterly 43 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:23,200 cold conditions that you've mentioned, Matt, but also some 44 00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:26,840 of their closer allies, including many in the gun lobby. 45 00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:30,080 And again, we've been talking to people on that side of things 46 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:34,680 until now that there's been a kind of guy here who he's either 47 00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:38,360 the bogeyman or he's the folk hero, depending how you see him. 48 00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:41,800 His name is Gregory Bovino. He's been leading Border Patrol 49 00:02:41,800 --> 00:02:44,040 forces through the streets of Minneapolis. 50 00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:46,400 I've been in situations where there have been really tense 51 00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:50,240 standoffs between Border Patrol and protesters. 52 00:02:50,480 --> 00:02:53,560 The scenes here have looked like a war zone. 53 00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:56,880 And to be honest, that's what Donald Trump made clear he 54 00:02:56,880 --> 00:02:58,720 wanted. He told his military chiefs at 55 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:02,000 one point there's a war going on with an enemy within. 56 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:05,760 It's been really shocking. I have been three times in 57 00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:07,880 recent weeks here, including before running. 58 00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:10,720 Nicole Good was killed. People are hiding. 59 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:15,240 They're hiding in their homes because they are so terrified of 60 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:19,280 being rounded up and taken to the Texas detention center. 61 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:21,520 They say it's all about violent criminals. 62 00:03:21,920 --> 00:03:24,920 That's not what I'm seeing, that they're taking people really 63 00:03:24,920 --> 00:03:26,440 indiscriminately, or they have been. 64 00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:30,200 What is genuine for sure is they know they went too far. 65 00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:33,760 They are withdrawing Gregory Pavino. 66 00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:37,280 They are withdrawing a certain number of Border Patrol 67 00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:39,240 officers. They are not taking out ICE 68 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:42,640 completely and they are not completely changing this policy. 69 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:46,680 They're sending in Tom Holman who is going to take over in a 70 00:03:46,680 --> 00:03:50,160 way from Gregory Pavino. He's the borders are he has had 71 00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:53,720 a more measured tone on all of this for sure. 72 00:03:54,120 --> 00:03:57,160 But in the last few days, we've seen shocking comments from 73 00:03:57,320 --> 00:03:59,960 members of the Trump administration, Stephen Miller, 74 00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:02,960 Christie, no, the vice president, JD Vance. 75 00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:06,200 It would be lovely to be a family on the wall right now, 76 00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:08,120 Matt, and to see the conversations that they're 77 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:11,800 having in the White House about how they deal with people really 78 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:14,040 clearly overstepping the mark. And I think the reason why we're 79 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:17,560 seeing some kind of withdrawal, some kind of a draw, and I 80 00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:20,079 think, you know, it's very partial and the overall policy 81 00:04:20,079 --> 00:04:22,520 probably still stays very much in place. 82 00:04:22,560 --> 00:04:25,120 We're seeing it because we've got the midterm elections coming 83 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:27,840 up in November. And for the first time, really, 84 00:04:27,840 --> 00:04:32,600 we're seeing major backlash from Republican congressmen and women 85 00:04:32,600 --> 00:04:36,240 and Republican senators who are frankly simply afraid that 86 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:38,840 they're going to lose their seats in the midterm elections 87 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:42,360 if this sort of overt cruelty continues. 88 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:45,680 Because even though the majority of Americans, you know, voted 89 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:50,080 for Trump largely because of his immigration policy, and they are 90 00:04:50,080 --> 00:04:53,440 still in favour of deportation, what they don't want to see is 91 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:55,520 this kind of violence on the streets of America. 92 00:04:56,000 --> 00:04:58,160 And, and I think a lot of Republicans fall into the 93 00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:01,040 outcome too. But before we talk more about 94 00:05:01,040 --> 00:05:03,120 ICE, and I think I'm fascinated by ICE. 95 00:05:03,560 --> 00:05:09,120 ICE, by the way, has the biggest military budget in the world as 96 00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:13,840 an enforcement agentry agency, apart from the military budgets 97 00:05:13,840 --> 00:05:19,280 of the US and China, 174 billion U.S. dollars in the big 98 00:05:19,280 --> 00:05:21,240 beautiful budget. We'll talk about that later. 99 00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:24,920 But I think to get some idea of how important this is, Anushka, 100 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:30,520 just talk us through frame by frame, if you don't mind, what 101 00:05:30,520 --> 00:05:34,200 we know about what actually happened to poor Alex Preti on 102 00:05:34,200 --> 00:05:35,720 Saturday. I mean, one thing that has 103 00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:38,080 happened with the Alex Preti killing is that the initial 104 00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:40,640 video that came out was very, very confusing. 105 00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:43,880 And then it took us a little bit of time to start to see it as we 106 00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:46,760 have done before, from different angles and to see what really 107 00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:49,200 happened. So initially the first video, 108 00:05:49,440 --> 00:05:53,160 very confusing, shocking. I was actually in a play centre, 109 00:05:53,160 --> 00:05:56,760 a trampoline park in Washington DC as I saw it for the first 110 00:05:56,760 --> 00:05:58,640 time. And actually, I thought my son 111 00:05:58,640 --> 00:06:03,120 had gone to the loo, but he was standing over my shoulder. 112 00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:05,000 He's only seven. He saw a bit of it. 113 00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:08,120 I suddenly hid it from him. And later he said to me, mom, 114 00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:10,480 I'm really scared in America right now. 115 00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:13,320 It's a shocking video. And, and without even drawing 116 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:16,480 breath, the response that started to come out, including 117 00:06:16,480 --> 00:06:20,640 from Donald Trump himself, was this guy came up to a law 118 00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:26,200 enforcement person with a loaded handgun with magazines ready to 119 00:06:26,280 --> 00:06:30,440 go, brandishing. Some of them said, yeah, Now you 120 00:06:30,440 --> 00:06:32,360 see the video. What's really happening in that 121 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:35,000 video, what is happening is that Alex Presti is 1 of what a 122 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:36,400 number of people have been doing here. 123 00:06:36,600 --> 00:06:39,840 One of the people observing, ICE officers and Border Patrol 124 00:06:39,840 --> 00:06:44,080 officers, He is holding in his hand not a gun but a phone. 125 00:06:44,160 --> 00:06:48,080 He is filming what is going on. He approaches slightly. 126 00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:53,840 He steps off onto the road and something happens and one of the 127 00:06:53,840 --> 00:06:57,480 officers pushes back a woman. Another woman who's protesting 128 00:06:57,800 --> 00:07:00,840 or observing like him, pushes them onto the ground. 129 00:07:00,840 --> 00:07:05,160 He turns to try and help her. They both get pepper sprayed in 130 00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:08,640 the face. They go down and he then 131 00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:13,360 suddenly gets pulled back. He does not go for his gun at 132 00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:15,320 any point. Now that we've watched it frame 133 00:07:15,320 --> 00:07:17,680 by frame, he gets pushed onto the floor. 134 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:22,840 At one point, an agent reaches down, takes his gun out of his 135 00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:25,920 holster, and actually starts to walk away. 136 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:30,800 And at that very same moment, we hear ten shots fired in five 137 00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:33,720 seconds, 10 which shoot him dead. 138 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:37,720 And you can see in the video immediately that he is dead and 139 00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:39,920 he's so shocking. And you know, there is a phrase 140 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:44,680 that we talk about here, which is who do you believe me or your 141 00:07:44,680 --> 00:07:47,680 own lying eyes? And the problem with the Alex 142 00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:50,600 Preti video and frankly, I think with the Renee Nicole good 143 00:07:50,600 --> 00:07:52,080 video. And later we can talk about why 144 00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:55,360 that wasn't the turning point that this is is we can see it 145 00:07:55,360 --> 00:07:59,280 Matt with our eyes, but they immediately try to argue that he 146 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:02,760 was a domestic terrorist. And I also think overstepped the 147 00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:06,240 mark massively because people in America, and you know this, that 148 00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:08,160 they care about their Second Amendment rights. 149 00:08:08,160 --> 00:08:10,160 They care about the right to carry a gun. 150 00:08:10,280 --> 00:08:14,200 He was carrying with a permit. The only crime he had ever 151 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:17,320 committed previously was a parking ticket, as far as we can 152 00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:18,920 tell. And he was gunned down on the 153 00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:21,080 streets. And to me, Matt, this feels or 154 00:08:21,080 --> 00:08:23,560 it certainly felt as I was heading here from Minneapolis, 155 00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:27,640 chilling, dystopian, like we were living in another world. 156 00:08:27,760 --> 00:08:30,360 The scenes on the streets of Minneapolis for some time have 157 00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:35,159 felt to me, otherworldly. How does it compare to what 158 00:08:35,159 --> 00:08:37,520 you've seen before? How different does this feel? 159 00:08:37,799 --> 00:08:41,280 It's remarkably different under Biden and under Obama. 160 00:08:41,280 --> 00:08:44,200 Yes, there were plenty of deportations. 161 00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:46,040 Obama was known as a deporter in chief. 162 00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:49,120 At one stage, 1000 people were being pushed across the border 163 00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:53,520 into Mexico on a daily basis. But they did it quietly. 164 00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:59,120 The whole point of Trump is that performance is policy, right? 165 00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:02,680 You're doing this so that people can see how brutal you're 166 00:09:02,680 --> 00:09:06,760 prepared to be, to push people out, hoping that a lot of people 167 00:09:06,760 --> 00:09:09,360 will, you know, as they call it, self deport. 168 00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:12,120 But in the process of this, something else has happened. 169 00:09:12,120 --> 00:09:15,440 So ICE was always kind of slightly looked down upon as, 170 00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:18,160 you know, the one of the Customs Enforcement agencies. 171 00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:20,720 You kind of, you know, it wasn't as glamorous as the FBI. 172 00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:23,400 Yeah. It wasn't even as glamorous as 173 00:09:23,400 --> 00:09:26,400 the, you know, the direct Border Patrol who kind of see even then 174 00:09:26,400 --> 00:09:29,080 under Obama or Biden was seen as the kind of Cowboys on the 175 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:32,680 southern border patrolling, you know, Mexico, Arizona, all these 176 00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:37,480 New Mexico and Arizona. The ICE people were a little bit 177 00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:40,280 more low grade. And the main problem that you 178 00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:44,120 had as an ICE agent, obviously carrying a firearm was that you 179 00:09:44,120 --> 00:09:47,760 would use your firearm in an extreme situation and then you 180 00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:49,360 would be held accountable for it. 181 00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:54,200 And so the worry with ICE agents, I'm told in the past was 182 00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:57,720 that, you know, they didn't use their arms enough, their weapons 183 00:09:57,720 --> 00:10:01,520 enough, because they were following the law, constantly 184 00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:05,560 aware and told to be aware of the rights of the people they 185 00:10:05,560 --> 00:10:08,400 were arresting. We've had a complete sea change 186 00:10:08,520 --> 00:10:11,560 of mentality with an ICE since Trump took office. 187 00:10:11,560 --> 00:10:16,440 It's not basically the message is you're acting with our cover. 188 00:10:16,480 --> 00:10:19,800 You know, we've got your back, ICE agent, you can more or less 189 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:23,400 act with impunity that, you know, don't worry too much about 190 00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:26,760 the law as long as you deliver us the numbers of people that 191 00:10:26,760 --> 00:10:29,960 need to be lifted, detained and then deported. 192 00:10:29,960 --> 00:10:32,920 This is a numbers game. You've got to fill those quotas. 193 00:10:32,920 --> 00:10:35,800 And remember, the quotas they're trying to fill according to 194 00:10:35,800 --> 00:10:38,480 their manifesto pledges is a million a year. 195 00:10:38,480 --> 00:10:41,320 They're not going to get there, but they're trying really, 196 00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:43,680 really hard. At the same time, ICE, and I 197 00:10:43,680 --> 00:10:48,200 mentioned this before briefly, has such a vast budget that this 198 00:10:48,200 --> 00:10:51,280 has never been seen before for any law enforcement agency, 199 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:54,920 whether it's the FBI or the CIA. In the history of the United 200 00:10:54,920 --> 00:10:58,080 States, as I said, bigger than the military budget of any 201 00:10:58,080 --> 00:11:02,360 country in the world apart from China and the US, the numbers of 202 00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:05,440 agents they've recruited has gone from 7000 roughly under 203 00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:10,680 Biden to 12,000 under Trump. That's a significant increase. 204 00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:13,680 And then when you look at the specifics of what happened to 205 00:11:13,680 --> 00:11:17,800 Alex Preti and indeed to Renee, Good, the minute someone is shot 206 00:11:17,840 --> 00:11:21,000 in the past, right when if there was an ICE agent was in the, in 207 00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:23,560 the rare position of having shot someone dead, especially 208 00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:27,960 immediately, the law enforcement agencies would, would, would 209 00:11:27,960 --> 00:11:29,760 gather together in a kind of circle. 210 00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:32,200 And we're trying to establish what the evidence was. 211 00:11:32,920 --> 00:11:35,360 And the person who did the shooting would then be probably 212 00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:37,640 be investigated. They're not necessarily charged, 213 00:11:37,640 --> 00:11:39,840 but they would want to find out what actually happened. 214 00:11:40,680 --> 00:11:43,320 In the case of Renee Goode and the case of Alex Preti, as you 215 00:11:43,320 --> 00:11:47,120 know, the evidence on the ground has been seized by the people 216 00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:51,240 who committed the killing and the area basically blocked off 217 00:11:51,240 --> 00:11:55,200 to the police, the local Minneapolis police, let alone 218 00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:57,680 anyone else who was standing by. And I think for ordinary 219 00:11:57,680 --> 00:12:00,120 Americans who are wondering about the state of their 220 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:02,480 Republic, you know, this is deeply scary. 221 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:05,240 And remember, as I said, performances, policies, Trump 222 00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:08,400 wants people to be scared. He wants, you know, immigrant 223 00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:11,720 families who are undocumented to feel that they might be lifted 224 00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:14,320 at any moment because the hope is that they'll self deport. 225 00:12:14,560 --> 00:12:16,480 But in many cases, they won't because they've been there for 226 00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:18,840 10 years or 20 years. They've paid their American 227 00:12:18,840 --> 00:12:21,440 taxes. And remember, in America, if 228 00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:25,280 you're undocumented, if you're there as an illegal alien, there 229 00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:28,440 is no path to legality. There is no path to suddenly 230 00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:30,720 getting documented. You have to leave the country 231 00:12:30,720 --> 00:12:33,480 and then come back in again and wait for a very long time. 232 00:12:33,880 --> 00:12:36,680 And you could say that's just, But if you've been living in 233 00:12:36,680 --> 00:12:39,080 America and working and sending your kids to school and your 234 00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:41,800 kids have become American citizens because they were born 235 00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:44,800 there, then there's a much more complicated situation. 236 00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:47,240 And that's why I think you're getting all these citizens on 237 00:12:47,240 --> 00:12:49,000 the streets. Like Alex Preti was out there, 238 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:54,400 concerned citizen with his camera, with his iPhone, trying 239 00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:57,240 to make sure that they can enforce some degree of order 240 00:12:57,480 --> 00:13:00,360 within their community. And of course you've got pumped 241 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:04,040 up ICE agents, you've got angry local citizens, a clash is 242 00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:07,520 almost inevitable. But within that panic, and I'm 243 00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:10,080 sure, and you know from the first tape that you referred to, 244 00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:13,040 there clearly was panic. Within that panic, some terrible 245 00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:15,720 things have happened. And the guys who I'd love to 246 00:13:15,720 --> 00:13:18,000 who, who shot him, did they have the training? 247 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:20,360 Were they, you know, had they been in ICE for a couple of 248 00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:22,280 months or for many years? This is all really important, 249 00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:24,360 but we don't know the answers to any of it because we're not 250 00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:26,160 being told. Anushka, when I was in 251 00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:28,480 Washington in the summer, I saw ICE agents on the streets. 252 00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:30,960 The thing that really struck me was the fear in the eyes of 253 00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:33,480 Hispanic parents taking their kids to school in the morning. 254 00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:36,200 You must have come across so much of that in Minneapolis. 255 00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:38,440 Tell us about it. Oh my God, I think the whole 256 00:13:38,440 --> 00:13:42,320 city is just kind of reeling. I mean, that point you're making 257 00:13:42,320 --> 00:13:45,240 about this being a kind of federal government versus state 258 00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:49,240 thing is so like visceral here right now. 259 00:13:49,240 --> 00:13:52,960 I mean, I was at the crime scene where Alex Pretti was killed and 260 00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:56,560 we saw local officers going to the scene by the time that it 261 00:13:56,560 --> 00:14:00,000 had been completely cleared and there was a memorial bear trying 262 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:02,400 to get evidence. And they hadn't been allowed to 263 00:14:02,400 --> 00:14:05,520 go and get evidence before that, which is just totally 264 00:14:05,560 --> 00:14:07,600 extraordinary. And the people who are dealing 265 00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:10,680 with this as a crisis kind of can't believe that it is a 266 00:14:10,680 --> 00:14:13,800 crisis caused by, in their eyes, their own federal government. 267 00:14:13,800 --> 00:14:16,680 But as you say, the human stories are behind the doors 268 00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:20,920 everywhere you look here because there are genuinely loads of 269 00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:26,600 immigrants hiding in this city, including including immigrants 270 00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:30,800 who have completely legal paperwork but who have been 271 00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:33,160 taken. And I was with somebody 272 00:14:33,160 --> 00:14:38,320 yesterday who was a builder working on a roof, got stopped, 273 00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:41,680 had their paperwork, showed their paperwork to the officers. 274 00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:45,400 They said this is garbage. They told him, you're effed. 275 00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:48,600 I won't actually say the word. They handcuffed him behind his 276 00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:51,080 hand. They got him to climb down a 277 00:14:51,080 --> 00:14:53,640 ladder with handcuffs behind his back. 278 00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:55,320 I know. And then hit. 279 00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:57,280 The handcuffs were on for 2 1/2 hours. 280 00:14:57,520 --> 00:14:59,880 The shackles on his legs stayed on for four days. 281 00:14:59,880 --> 00:15:04,520 He was put into a Minneapolis detention center where there 282 00:15:04,520 --> 00:15:07,080 were dozens of people in a room, no beds. 283 00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:10,240 People had to take it in turns to sleep because not everybody 284 00:15:10,240 --> 00:15:12,560 could sit or lie down at the same time. 285 00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:15,880 The toilets were open, so you were sitting on the toilet next 286 00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:18,160 to someone else. They didn't have a blanket. 287 00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:21,160 And it's really cold here. As you've mentioned, they were 288 00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:23,880 sent to El Paso in Texas to another detention facility and 289 00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:26,560 they were actually like relieved when they got there because they 290 00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:30,200 got a blanket, although they were then in a room with 72 291 00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:33,000 people and they were not allowed out to do exercise. 292 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:36,480 And just bear in mind, you know, this person is legal, has 293 00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:40,720 paperwork, is going to be released and has to go through 294 00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:42,560 this. They can hardly communicate with 295 00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:44,800 their family who are going completely crazy. 296 00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:48,560 You know, number of kids here in the US with U.S. citizens who, 297 00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:52,040 by the way, are being made to carry their passports when they 298 00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:54,760 go out with them. Because people are so terrified 299 00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:57,680 because the only people who are not being taken are the people 300 00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:01,560 who don't have their paperwork on them and and paperwork 301 00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:04,120 doesn't do it has to be passports. 302 00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:07,560 Yesterday was with a Somali family for the second time. 303 00:16:07,560 --> 00:16:11,760 We went to see them after Renee Nicole Good she again legal was 304 00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:15,360 stopped by multiple cars. Masked men got in her car, took 305 00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:17,720 her 45 year old mother of three Maimuna. 306 00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:23,440 She was put in a Minnesotan jail for two weeks before she came 307 00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:25,000 home. These are not the kind of 308 00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:28,480 violent criminals that Gregory Bevino is has been telling us in 309 00:16:28,480 --> 00:16:30,200 press conferences. He's been doing these 310 00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:32,360 extraordinary press conferences. He puts up what he calls the 311 00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:34,560 worst of the worst. The violent criminals they're 312 00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:38,400 taking off the streets. The reality is so many people 313 00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:41,120 are terrified. You know, they're not even going 314 00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:43,800 to get help. We spoke to someone else. 315 00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:46,880 You talk about self deporting, who said I just need to self 316 00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:49,120 deport? And just, you know, I want to 317 00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:50,240 ask you what you're making of all this. 318 00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:54,480 But predating the stories we've seen since the killing of Renee 319 00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:57,920 Nicole Goods, since the killing of Alex Pretti and my moon of 320 00:16:57,920 --> 00:16:59,600 the Somali woman said they shot Alex. 321 00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:03,280 Why wouldn't they shoot me? We were here in December after 322 00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:05,480 Donald Trump and we talked about it on the pod was attacking 323 00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:08,400 Somali Americans, listening to people hearing death threats be 324 00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:10,280 called through. I think if you look at the 325 00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:14,440 profiling of the people they're arresting, and I'm not talking 326 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:15,960 about the people they're killing, but the people that 327 00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:18,960 they're arresting and the people they're deporting, they don't 328 00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:22,440 tend to be, you know, white Europeans have outstayed their, 329 00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:25,720 you know, their, their Ivs. If you haven't offend, they 330 00:17:25,720 --> 00:17:31,400 don't tend to be, I don't know even, you know, Asians from East 331 00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:36,080 Asia, they tend to be Hispanics. They tend to be Somalis with 332 00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:40,480 force, with propaganda, you know, with arrests, using the 333 00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:44,200 full power of the federal government to basically make the 334 00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:47,640 place more white. And now you might say this is 335 00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:51,880 ridiculous, but if you look at the, you know, the ICE website, 336 00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:56,040 you know, the, the number of kind of messaging messages that 337 00:17:56,040 --> 00:18:00,280 have come up, you know, on the ICE website between, you know, 338 00:18:00,280 --> 00:18:04,040 ICE departments and ICE agents, the motors that they've used. 339 00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:07,000 This is all this is from a different world, Anushka. 340 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:10,640 This is not the ICE that people knew from, you know, a year ago 341 00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:13,520 or three years ago. And you've not seen this before, 342 00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:14,040 Matt? Yeah. 343 00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:16,080 There's never been a point in America where you felt. 344 00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:18,200 Never. Not like this, Not like this. 345 00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:20,160 I mean, you know, border control, fine. 346 00:18:20,360 --> 00:18:21,800 You know, it's, it's a long border. 347 00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:23,920 It's a porous border. Millions of people have come 348 00:18:23,920 --> 00:18:26,240 across that border. They came over under the Biden 349 00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:29,120 administration partly because it was the post COVID, you know, 350 00:18:29,120 --> 00:18:31,960 need for people either to get out or for New Labour to be 351 00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:33,800 found. And actually the numbers of 352 00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:36,400 people, you know, went down in the last few months of Biden. 353 00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:39,640 His big, big mistake was that he never took the immigration 354 00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:42,640 crisis seriously enough. And Trump did and always has 355 00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:44,720 done. It's one of his EDA fix and he 356 00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:46,640 acted on it. And the irony is Anushka, the 357 00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:48,120 southern border is virtually closed. 358 00:18:48,120 --> 00:18:50,680 There's no one coming across. I mean, you know, he has 359 00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:54,040 achieved one of his main goals, which is to close that border. 360 00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:57,800 Not nobody, a few 1000, a few thousand a month, but yeah, 361 00:18:57,840 --> 00:19:00,480 nothing like it was. But hardly anyone is coming 362 00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:02,840 across, right. So compared to the numbers we 363 00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:04,880 had before, it is tiny. It's a trickle. 364 00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:08,520 But what's so extraordinary is that they've used the, the 365 00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:11,640 border is now in every American community. 366 00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:13,960 You know, that's where the border agents are acting. 367 00:19:14,360 --> 00:19:17,000 And, you know, in Minneapolis, as you know, they're deployed, 368 00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:18,680 you know, it's a bit of confusion. 369 00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:21,560 They're deployed ostensibly, as Caroline never told us 370 00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:24,040 yesterday, because of they're going after these fraud cases, 371 00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:26,000 you know, date back to the COVID era. 372 00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:30,000 Involving a few dozen Somalis and there are 100,000 Somalis in 373 00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:32,080 this state. Right, and fraud cases are not 374 00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:35,160 sold by border agents, right? That that's sold by by people 375 00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:36,960 who work for, you know, other departments. 376 00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:40,640 So they're really using ICE, I think to create a climate of 377 00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:43,640 fear first and foremost amongst the, you know, immigrant 378 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:45,920 community. And you know, we know, I mean, 379 00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:49,160 Chris, Senator Chris Murphy was at a Texas, you know, asylum 380 00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:51,360 court the other day and put the stuff on social media. 381 00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:54,280 He's, I mean, obviously, you know, the massive critic of, of 382 00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:57,680 Democrat hates Trump. But he was describing how 383 00:19:57,680 --> 00:20:00,640 families would go into the to the courts to have their asylum 384 00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:04,160 cases heard and the ICE agents would pick them up as they came 385 00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:05,520 out of the courts to arrest them. 386 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:08,040 And deport the undocumented parent. 387 00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:10,960 Often the kids were naturalized Americans because they were born 388 00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:13,080 in America. Deport the parent and send them 389 00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:16,200 away to a detention center, regardless of whether they had 390 00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:19,160 been approved or not. And so even though we're seeing 391 00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:22,640 some kind of withdrawal from the the cruelest part of the policy 392 00:20:23,040 --> 00:20:26,440 after the the murder of Alex Preti, because Republican 393 00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:29,040 senators and congressmen are wide about losing their seats in 394 00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:31,320 the midterm elections. And the opinion polls tell us 395 00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:32,960 that this is not popular with the public. 396 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:37,600 This degree of brutality. The fundamental policy, I don't 397 00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:40,640 think will change here because they feel they've got a mandate, 398 00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:43,480 they're on a mission and they've got the money to do it. 399 00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:45,760 And again, it's, it's a bit like, you know, what happened 400 00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:48,800 after the the murder of Charlie Kirk, what happened after, you 401 00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:52,880 know, Renee Goode, this this immediate response from the 402 00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:57,920 administration to blame left wing radicals and the Democrats 403 00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:02,520 makes me think that the other thing that's lurking behind us, 404 00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:04,800 you know, the elephant in the room is the Insurrection Act 405 00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:08,400 where you basically use the military use military force to, 406 00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:13,760 to, to to end First Amendment, you know, rights of freedom of 407 00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:16,760 speech and freedom to protest ahead of the midterm elections. 408 00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:19,480 Everything Trump has said he would do, he is dumb. 409 00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:21,400 He is hinted that he might do this. 410 00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:23,560 I wouldn't be surprised if he went this far. 411 00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:25,640 Watch that space. I mean, do you think I'm 412 00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:27,200 overreacting here? What do you think in Oshka? 413 00:21:27,360 --> 00:21:30,160 Until, you know, he backed off a bit this week. 414 00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:32,200 I certainly thought the interaction act was coming. 415 00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:35,120 I think because it's very clear that they feel like they've 416 00:21:35,120 --> 00:21:38,360 overstepped the mark. Things will cool down a little 417 00:21:38,360 --> 00:21:39,640 bit. I mean, we've gone from them 418 00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:44,080 attacking the governor here, Tim Waltz, relentlessly for weeks on 419 00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:47,840 end and the mayor here, Jacob Frey, to him getting on the 420 00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:49,960 phone to them and saying, oh, you know, I think we're on a 421 00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:55,480 similar wavelength. You know, he's still brutally 422 00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:59,520 attacking the representative here, Ilhan Omar, in a very what 423 00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:02,640 feels like racist way to me now, suggesting maybe she's involved 424 00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:05,200 in the fraud cases. He's still attacking Somalis. 425 00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:08,520 I mean, on that point you made about race, I mean, I had to 426 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:11,360 kind of check this so many times because I thought, is it fake? 427 00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:16,440 He's put on Truth Social, the president, a clip of New York in 428 00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:20,600 the past with lots of white people walking down the street. 429 00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:22,800 And it's like New York in a very different time. 430 00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:27,320 Never forget exclamation mark. And Stephen Miller, his deputy 431 00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:29,600 chief of staff, has put that on X. 432 00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:31,800 And, you know, I've heard about lots of Stephen Miller 433 00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:34,000 conversations behind the scenes. There's no question. 434 00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:39,280 In fact, he says it out loud that that he wants to see a 435 00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:42,640 country that maintains more of what he sees. 436 00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:46,400 I mean, the joke of this as if this is the indigenous American 437 00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:50,240 population, but he sees as the indigenous American population, 438 00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:54,400 which is basically Europeans who came here, his ancestors, 439 00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:57,360 etcetera. I mean, it feels so blatant 440 00:22:57,360 --> 00:23:01,800 where even in 2020 it did not. Even in 2020 when George Floyd 441 00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:04,880 was killed on these streets, Donald Trump said we'll get 442 00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:06,680 justice for George Floyd's family. 443 00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:11,520 But the reaction, I mean, when Renee Nicole Good was shot 3 444 00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:15,240 times, including from the side when she was unthreatening and 445 00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:18,200 had turned her wheel and was moving away, you know, they 446 00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:21,320 still felt very comfortable to say that she was threatening his 447 00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:24,360 life, that this was all down to left wing activists at the 448 00:23:24,360 --> 00:23:25,960 moment. They're still talking about. 449 00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:27,520 And there have been some horrible scenes. 450 00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:30,080 There have been some scary scenes where a hotel where ICE 451 00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:33,840 agents were staying had windows smashed, etcetera. 452 00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:38,360 But largely what we're seeing have been protests that have 453 00:23:38,360 --> 00:23:41,200 stayed quite peaceful against people who seem quite scary. 454 00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:43,520 They've got masks on. You can't tell quite where 455 00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:45,200 they're from. I mean, we're calling them ICE. 456 00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:47,280 But actually the kind of architect of this policy, 457 00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:49,880 Gregory Bavino, is Border Patrol. 458 00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:52,480 Which is a hard the hard the hard the hard lot. 459 00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:55,240 Guys with the guns, someone was saying to me yesterday I saw 460 00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:57,640 someone with AK-40 Sevens and I was like, well, they didn't have 461 00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:00,080 AK-40 Sevens, but actually when you look at the guns they're 462 00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:03,200 holding, they I can see they feel a bit like that. 463 00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:07,240 They look that shape. And his policy was these. 464 00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:09,360 Are weapons of war in Uska. These are weapons that are 465 00:24:09,360 --> 00:24:11,120 supposed to be used on a battlefield somewhere. 466 00:24:11,120 --> 00:24:14,160 And it feels like that and and it was not let's what used to be 467 00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:17,080 that ICE collects all the information on people, finds out 468 00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:20,120 where you might have someone who's an illegal alien as they 469 00:24:20,120 --> 00:24:22,400 would call them, and then they get removed. 470 00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:25,440 This idea there was will bring the border to your cities, will 471 00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:28,200 be in your cities. And look, there is, you know, he 472 00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:31,440 says they're taking violent criminals case after case after 473 00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:34,360 case, including one that involved a 5 year old boy who 474 00:24:34,360 --> 00:24:39,200 was also taken with his father. The case, the criminality was 475 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:42,720 the way they had crossed the border, which is a civil case. 476 00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:44,680 Yeah, which is an illegal entry into this country. 477 00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:47,840 It's not a violent case. And, and actually lots of people 478 00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:49,280 came here. They were paid for by the 479 00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:53,000 American government to come here on Aun refugee scheme and they 480 00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:55,000 fear here. People are telling me with fear 481 00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:58,280 that they've handed over the entire list of those people to 482 00:24:58,280 --> 00:24:59,760 ICE. Those people are not leaving 483 00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:02,040 their homes. Anyone who's undocumented in 484 00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:05,440 America has, you know, is in danger of being deported 485 00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:07,240 according to the law. You know, if you're 486 00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:10,640 undocumented, your potential deportee. 487 00:25:11,120 --> 00:25:15,120 But the problem is, one, the way that the law is being applied by 488 00:25:15,120 --> 00:25:17,840 ICE, as we've discussed in this unusually brutal way. 489 00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:22,320 And the other really big issue is that because so many of 490 00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:25,040 these, I mean, millions upon millions of families, I think we 491 00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:28,320 don't even know the real number. Is it 12,000,015 million had 492 00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:32,480 been living in the United States for decades where the parents 493 00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:34,800 came over illegally, They walked across the border. 494 00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:39,240 The kids were born in America. They are now American citizens. 495 00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:43,160 They live in this weird hybrid shadow world, but they've been 496 00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:46,720 paying their taxes, you know, they have driving licenses, 497 00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:50,920 they're documented in every way other than having citizenship 498 00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:54,720 rights or a a legal visa the way that, you know, you and I do 499 00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:58,600 when we go and work there. And, you know, there has to be a 500 00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:02,760 path to accommodate these people somehow because they are, 501 00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:04,640 whether you like it or not, they have jobs, they're part of the 502 00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:06,920 community. They feel as if they're part of 503 00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:09,320 the community. And at the same time, if you 504 00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:12,000 then try and remove them, you know, that's an incredibly 505 00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:14,520 complicated, difficult and brutal thing to do. 506 00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:17,320 And it's never been tried before, but we're seeing it now. 507 00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:22,560 Now they are trying it. And I just what I worry about is 508 00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:25,120 that, you know, everything from the way the rule of law is 509 00:26:25,120 --> 00:26:28,280 applied or not applied to not allowing local law enforcement 510 00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:31,960 to get in there to Christie Gnome, you know, claiming stuff 511 00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:34,520 that's just blatantly wrong to them, asking us to believe 512 00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:37,600 things that our eyes are not witnessing, etcetera, etcetera. 513 00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:41,720 It, you know, it's so dystopian. But I wonder, Anoushka, maybe 514 00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:44,720 you got the answer to this, whether you think that any of 515 00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:47,920 these people will lose their jobs, Christina, you know, Greg 516 00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:51,360 Bavino, I mean, will will any of them be fired for what they've 517 00:26:51,360 --> 00:26:55,080 done or not? Well, Gregory Bavino is clearly 518 00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:58,480 being removed from Minneapolis. There was a lot of rumor this 519 00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:01,160 week that he might be fired, It sounds like. 520 00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:04,360 It sounds to me looking at the people who were saying that, but 521 00:27:04,360 --> 00:27:08,120 he's telling people that he is facing a demotion. 522 00:27:08,120 --> 00:27:11,400 I mean, the people who have got Donald Trump into trouble on 523 00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:14,520 this, if you like, would include him who have been doing these 524 00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:18,680 shocking press conferences where he's basically like he said, the 525 00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:23,040 victims in this case were the officers, were my ICE officers. 526 00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:26,200 They were not essentially Alex Preti. 527 00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:30,320 And again, people can see that that doesn't add up at all. 528 00:27:30,360 --> 00:27:32,520 And with Rene Nicole Good, it was a little bit more. 529 00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:35,480 There was a bit more of a debate about whether the officer, 530 00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:38,640 Jonathan Ross, felt threatened. But to a lot of people, it still 531 00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:42,160 looked like a situation in which a person did not need to be 532 00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:43,960 killed. Christy Noem, who's the Homeland 533 00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:47,000 Security secretary, came out almost immediately and said the 534 00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:51,440 guy was a domestic terrorist. And Kash Patel, the director of 535 00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:56,920 the FBI said, no, you can't carry a loaded gun up to law 536 00:27:56,960 --> 00:27:59,320 enforcement officers. Well, here's the thing, Matt, it 537 00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:03,320 might feel really weird to you and I from the UK, but it it 538 00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:07,560 turns out you can carry a gun and when you are around law 539 00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:10,960 enforcement, you are allowed to film what they are doing. 540 00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:14,200 And I think that's why this has felt like such a difficult and 541 00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:17,120 clear cut case for the White House and they were mistaken to 542 00:28:17,120 --> 00:28:20,320 so quickly, you know, make a judgement. 543 00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:24,280 I find it extraordinary, actually, that anyone in a 544 00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:27,120 position of power would do anything other than sit back and 545 00:28:27,120 --> 00:28:28,880 say, let an investigation take place. 546 00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:31,920 But the reality is if the federal government don't want to 547 00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:35,240 do it, then federal officers will be very easily protected in 548 00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:37,880 these cases and there will not be justice for either Renee 549 00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:40,120 Nicole Good or for Alex Preti and. 550 00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:42,960 Of course, it sets up, you know, a clash between state law 551 00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:45,200 enforcement and federal law enforcement. 552 00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:47,480 This is something that never ends very well. 553 00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:49,720 And and, you know, this is the comparison with George Floyd 554 00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:53,920 when he was murdered in 2020. Immediately the local police, 555 00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:55,400 you know, started to investigate. 556 00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:57,960 He was, you know, he, he had to stay at home. 557 00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:00,800 Then there was a trial, You know, justice, you know, even 558 00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:04,360 after this horrible murder, justice was served eventually. 559 00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:07,120 We're getting no evidence that any of this has happened so far. 560 00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:10,280 And I don't think, frankly, that any of the people who are having 561 00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:12,840 difficult conversations with Trump at the moment are going to 562 00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:15,200 get fired because the difference between the last Trump 563 00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:18,280 administration and this one is that in the first one, you 564 00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:20,240 either got fired or you walked out. 565 00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:24,440 And in this one, everyone is slavishly loyal to the boss. 566 00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:27,120 So far, no one has got fired. And, you know, they've been 567 00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:29,440 quite a few things that have been done wrong, including by P 568 00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:33,040 Texas, Dean of the secretary of war, not fired very much in 569 00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:35,920 office because he's got his loyal team around him. 570 00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:39,640 Even Christie Noem, the former governor of South Dakota, who 571 00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:42,360 when she was in that position, shot her own dog. 572 00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:45,400 So, you know, in this country, I think as someone who does. 573 00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:47,000 That and wrote about it. What? 574 00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:49,760 And wrote about it. And wrote it proud enough to 575 00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:51,520 write about. It wrote, it shot her own dog 576 00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:53,480 and then wrote about it in her autobiography. 577 00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:58,880 Anyway, so different kind of people we're dealing with, I 578 00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:00,520 suppose. Anyway, tell us about your 579 00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:02,600 guest. Yeah, here. 580 00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:07,120 I went up to the emergency operations centre here where 581 00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:08,960 it's quite interesting. They wouldn't let us film it, 582 00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:12,440 but you can see they've got huge screens with maps of the city. 583 00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:13,960 They're tracking what's happening. 584 00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:16,200 Normally they're dealing with natural disasters. 585 00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:20,120 Right now they're trying to deal with the fallout of the crisis 586 00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:22,560 that they say has been caused by the federal government. 587 00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:24,800 And I spoke to its director, Rachel Say. 588 00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:28,160 Just tell me what your role entails. 589 00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:30,320 Yeah. So as the Emergency Management 590 00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:34,760 Director, I make sure that our city is ready and prepared for 591 00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:38,240 any sort of large scale emergencies, disasters, that we 592 00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:41,120 respond as a whole city and that we can recover. 593 00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:46,480 Is this an emergency like that? What we're experiencing here are 594 00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:52,280 large scale impacts to our community and those impacts are 595 00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:56,240 need to be urgently addressed. They include things like people 596 00:30:56,240 --> 00:31:00,760 need food, they need help making their rent this month, they need 597 00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:02,560 help with mental health resources. 598 00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:07,640 So those kind of impacts are really immediate and must be 599 00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:10,680 addressed. And impacts that are not from a 600 00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:15,320 natural disaster, but are from the federal government and its 601 00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:17,280 policy. That's right, That's right. 602 00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:21,320 What we're experiencing is a situation in which there are 603 00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:25,000 masked agents in the street and people are afraid to go outside. 604 00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:27,400 They're afraid to go to the grocery store. 605 00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:29,960 They're having to make impossible decisions. 606 00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:33,760 You know, 16% of our city lives below the poverty line already, 607 00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:37,880 which means meeting basic needs already is extremely difficult. 608 00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:41,120 When you take away their ability to go to their job, their 609 00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:44,000 decisions get even harder every single day. 610 00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:47,480 Am I feeding this child or am I going to my job? 611 00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:50,440 How do I make that happen if I can't go outside? 612 00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:52,480 And how many people are not going outside? 613 00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:56,560 Do you have any sense? No, we don't know specifically, 614 00:31:56,560 --> 00:32:00,000 but I can just tell you in my conversations, it's so 615 00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:02,120 widespread. Businesses are closed. 616 00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:06,000 We're hearing from emergency rooms and healthcare providers 617 00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:08,320 that less people are coming to their appointments. 618 00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:13,720 We're hearing, you know, people are again, afraid to send their 619 00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:15,800 kids to schools. That's why our many of us public 620 00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:18,560 schools made the decision to have a virtual option. 621 00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:22,680 And I do want to make clear that our city remains open and 622 00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:25,080 vibrant. You know, we have an incredible 623 00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:28,440 food scene here. People are ice skating, you 624 00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:31,640 know, enjoying the winter even in this freezing temperature. 625 00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:34,840 We have incredible numbers of community members who have gone 626 00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:38,720 out and protested. So it's both, you know, we're 627 00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:41,960 experiencing this impact and I can't tell you a single friend 628 00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:44,760 or family member or neighbor who's sleeping right now, The 629 00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:47,520 mental health impacts of this have just been. 630 00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:49,880 Everyone you know is having sleepless nights. 631 00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:51,560 Everyone, are you having sleepless nights? 632 00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:53,160 Absolutely. Yes, how bad? 633 00:32:55,360 --> 00:33:00,000 It depends on the day, but I it's impossible not to wake up 634 00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:03,360 and just immediately go into what's happening right now. 635 00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:06,080 You know, is my family safe? What's happened in the hours 636 00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:09,720 I've been able to sleep? How can I help my community? 637 00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:12,160 What's going to happen to my neighbors tomorrow? 638 00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:16,280 I mean, these are just feel like, again, impossible 639 00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:20,200 questions that you can't escape from because it's all we know 640 00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:22,120 right now. It is all we can think about. 641 00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:25,480 And I have to say, when I was seeing people protest this week, 642 00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:29,200 I thought to myself as I spoke to different people, that wasn't 643 00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:33,560 speaking to many immigrants. That's presumably because this 644 00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:37,960 is disproportionately affecting immigrants here in Minneapolis. 645 00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:41,800 Absolutely, absolutely. And again, you know, everyone's 646 00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:45,120 making that individual decision for themselves, and that's a 647 00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:49,440 conversation that's being had and we're really trying to 648 00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:51,840 center everyone who's most impacted, right? 649 00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:54,880 What do you need if you're not safe to go to the house? 650 00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:58,240 Our community is mobilizing to make sure you still do get the 651 00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:01,360 food you need, that we can get somehow healthcare to you. 652 00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:04,640 But everyone needs to make the decision for themselves on 653 00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:07,440 what's safest. Do you include, when it comes to 654 00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:11,040 healthcare people, for example, a woman who might be pregnant? 655 00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:13,000 Do we know what is happening? Are people coming to the 656 00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:15,320 hospital to give birth to their children? 657 00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:18,320 Yeah, we know that that's an absolute need is there are 658 00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:21,480 people who are pregnant who are afraid to get healthcare and 659 00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:26,760 that is absolutely unacceptable. So we are working, our health 660 00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:31,159 colleagues, we're working on what can we do, How can we knit 661 00:34:31,159 --> 00:34:35,480 together the incredible response in our community, the incredible 662 00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:39,920 network of mutual aid that has really re energized and is 663 00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:42,159 taking care of each other. How can we link that with 664 00:34:42,159 --> 00:34:43,840 different resources that are available? 665 00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:48,480 And you have previously worked in war zones and in countries 666 00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:51,040 that have suffered from that natural disasters. 667 00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:52,679 Tell me where you've worked. Yeah. 668 00:34:52,679 --> 00:34:55,920 So I've worked in Haiti most recently. 669 00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:58,880 I've worked in Yemen for a long time. 670 00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:04,200 Yemen still has my heart. Syria, northwest Syria, Ukraine 671 00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:11,720 at the start of the most recent war and what I saw there, the 672 00:35:11,720 --> 00:35:15,000 impacts are the same impacts that we have here. 673 00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:19,560 Again, people afraid to go out and go about their daily lives, 674 00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:24,960 to access food, to decide to send your kids to school or not. 675 00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:29,080 Those are the same choices that people in conflict zones make on 676 00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:31,680 a regular basis. Does it feel like this is a war 677 00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:34,120 zone? Again, we're we have a vibrant 678 00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:38,200 city, right? Our incredible small businesses 679 00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:42,200 are, I'm biased to the best in the country. 680 00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:45,480 We have award-winning restaurants. 681 00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:51,520 We have such a vibrant community of immigrants and communities. 682 00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:55,720 We are active, we are out, we are supporting each other more 683 00:35:55,720 --> 00:35:59,680 than ever. And we have these awful things 684 00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:03,320 that is, that is making us afraid, that is making us tired, 685 00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:06,320 that we're having to navigate. But you're essentially comparing 686 00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:11,560 your work in war zones to what is happening in Minneapolis in 687 00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:15,440 America in 2026. Yeah, I do feel like my 688 00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:18,480 experience working in conflict zones around the world has 689 00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:23,600 prepared me for ensuring that I keep our focus on what is 690 00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:25,960 happening to our community. How do we meet the needs? 691 00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:29,960 What are the needs, needs how? What is most urgent to attend to 692 00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:35,520 and make sure that we can do what we can to keep us safe and 693 00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:38,080 keep us thriving. And do you see those masked 694 00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:44,000 agents you talked about in the city as comparable to the types 695 00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:46,880 of militia, for example, you've seen elsewhere in the world? 696 00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:53,640 I think that, you know, no one deserves to go outside and not 697 00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:58,520 know what they're going to face. I was calling earlier this 698 00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:01,640 morning how when we're little in school, you know, we have police 699 00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:04,280 and fire come visit us. And the reason they come and 700 00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:07,000 visit us is that we understand what they look like and what 701 00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:10,880 they do. We were never educated on masked 702 00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:16,880 agents coming into our city and and doing the things they're 703 00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:18,360 doing. That's not something that we 704 00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:21,400 grow up here learning about because it's not something that 705 00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:22,960 has happened here and it's not OK. 706 00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:24,720 And what sort of stories are you hearing? 707 00:37:24,720 --> 00:37:27,880 Can you give me a few examples of the things you're seeing 708 00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:31,080 behind closed doors? Well, so one of the things that 709 00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:34,240 is just, again, back to the mental health needs that are 710 00:37:34,240 --> 00:37:39,480 just across the board, you know, here we always say how are you 711 00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:41,880 to start a conversation? No one's saying that anymore 712 00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:44,240 because there's no answer that is possible. 713 00:37:44,240 --> 00:37:47,320 We're starting conversations with how are you holding up? 714 00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:51,240 Or I have no words. And that is just in itself. 715 00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:56,480 So not us, not American, certainly not Minnesotan, we're 716 00:37:56,480 --> 00:38:02,040 starting our interactions with, you know, hugs and and ending 717 00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:10,520 them with this just anger and fear and the desperate desire to 718 00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:15,280 hope for something to change. We just want to go back to our 719 00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:19,440 amazing breweries to, you know, all of the activities that we 720 00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:26,480 have here and feel like our choices right now are go outside 721 00:38:26,720 --> 00:38:29,960 and maybe run into those masked agents or your neighbors about 722 00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:34,400 to take it away. Or do I go protest and make sure 723 00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:36,840 that everyone knows what's happening here? 724 00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:39,920 Are a lot of people in hiding? I think that there is a 725 00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:43,360 significant amount of people who are not going outside based on 726 00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:44,960 what we're hearing about food banks. 727 00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:48,840 Their food shelves are not being emptied right now, which is a 728 00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:50,400 change. Because people are scared of 729 00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:51,840 going to a food bank. Yes. 730 00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:54,560 And when you say you're responding to all of that, can 731 00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:56,640 you just give me an example of the things you're doing, like 732 00:38:56,640 --> 00:38:59,720 how much food is going out? What else are you supporting the 733 00:38:59,720 --> 00:39:01,160 people with? How are you getting them to 734 00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:05,560 healthcare? Yeah, So Minneapolis has such an 735 00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:07,800 incredible vibrant mutual aid community. 736 00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:12,520 So that means that we have hyperlocal communities block by 737 00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:16,000 block, neighbor by a neighbor, really making sure that people 738 00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:19,240 are taken care of. Schools are an incredible 739 00:39:19,240 --> 00:39:22,680 network for that resource. Various community organizations 740 00:39:22,680 --> 00:39:27,400 are doing just amazing work. Our, our cultural communities 741 00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:31,800 are leading the way. So we as a city, we're making 742 00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:36,840 sure that people have a virtual resources, especially, again, 743 00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:39,320 for those people who are most vulnerable and unable to leave 744 00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:40,800 their home. So we have stood up 745 00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:44,920 minneapolismn.gov/ice. It has a link to our virtual 746 00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:46,960 Resource Center. So you can go on there. 747 00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:50,360 We have mental health that's free that you can access from 748 00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:53,720 home. We have links to legal resources 749 00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:58,560 to information such as if you are tear gassed, here's what to 750 00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:01,280 do. So we're really making sure to 751 00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:04,560 continually share information about what's out there. 752 00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:07,920 And what do you say to the Trump administration when they argue 753 00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:10,480 this is all about getting violent criminals off the 754 00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:13,400 streets? And actually, if officials in 755 00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:17,640 Minnesota, in Minneapolis would work with us, this would be much 756 00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:21,760 calmer. So we do and have worked with 757 00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:26,560 the federal administration for a very long time for always on 758 00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:29,800 violent criminals. That is ongoing work. 759 00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:36,320 But that's not what this is. We are, I am now focused on the 760 00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:41,440 impact to our community because our neighbors are disappearing 761 00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:46,480 because there are residents who are holding up a camera and 762 00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:51,320 instead of just being allowed to use their camera like anyone in 763 00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:55,120 anywhere in the world, they're having a gun pointed at them by 764 00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:57,080 a masked agent. That's not OK. 765 00:40:57,560 --> 00:41:00,920 So you just do not buy the argument that this is targeted 766 00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:04,120 at violent criminals. It's impacting everyone. 767 00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:08,400 If that's actually the target, it's impacting absolutely 768 00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:11,960 everyone. This is a city that has just 769 00:41:11,960 --> 00:41:15,280 been through so much. Does that impact how you're 770 00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:17,280 dealing with this now? Yeah, yeah. 771 00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:21,760 So I am hearing from communities that everyone is becoming 772 00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:25,000 familiar with this term of compounded trauma, which is just 773 00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:28,640 a tragic thing alone to have to understand what that means. 774 00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:31,360 But it means, you know, it's just been thing after thing. 775 00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:33,480 And that's not fair. It's not OK. 776 00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:36,200 And I mean just finally you work. 777 00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:41,560 In emergency responses, and like I said before, you've dealt with 778 00:41:41,560 --> 00:41:45,320 war zones, you've dealt with natural disasters. 779 00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:47,920 It seems to me that what what you're saying is that 780 00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:51,920 Minneapolis is essentially in that situation because of a 781 00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:54,880 crisis caused by the federal government. 782 00:41:55,240 --> 00:41:57,520 I mean, can you get your head round that? 783 00:41:57,920 --> 00:42:00,720 And what is your message to the federal government as someone 784 00:42:00,720 --> 00:42:04,960 who's in, you know, in charge of looking after people here in 785 00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:07,760 terms of an emergency response? Yeah, yeah. 786 00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:11,160 So I grew up here in Minnesota and one of the things I was 787 00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:15,200 raved on, raised to do was just love my neighbor, take care of 788 00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:19,560 my neighbor. So that's my my ask has just let 789 00:42:19,560 --> 00:42:23,280 us love each other, let us take care of each other and just let 790 00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:25,760 us have have our lives. That's all we want. 791 00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:29,080 Do you accept what they say? That lots of people want this. 792 00:42:29,560 --> 00:42:32,000 I have not seen what they are trying to say. 793 00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:34,520 We want that. We want in Minneapolis. 794 00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:37,120 We want to go back to the way our lives have been. 795 00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:39,520 And what disasters would you be coping with then? 796 00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:41,080 What would you like to be focused on? 797 00:42:41,240 --> 00:42:46,080 Yeah, well, I never would wish a disaster upon us, but the things 798 00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:49,520 we usually face here are extreme weather, so extreme cold, like 799 00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:53,080 we've had recently. We prep every summer for a 800 00:42:53,080 --> 00:42:56,720 tornado season, you know, minor flooding. 801 00:42:56,800 --> 00:42:59,120 That's the kind of thing that we usually deal with here. 802 00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:04,400 And this must be expensive. How much is it costing the city 803 00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:07,880 from the state but the city in your case to deal with this? 804 00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:10,240 Yeah, we're working to figure that out. 805 00:43:10,240 --> 00:43:14,720 And the reality is with these kind of large scale situations, 806 00:43:14,720 --> 00:43:17,320 we're not going to know until quite after the fact, right? 807 00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:21,240 Rent is due on February 1st. We're going to not know the full 808 00:43:21,240 --> 00:43:24,120 scale of that until after. And we start seeing people who 809 00:43:24,360 --> 00:43:26,560 have to leave their home because they couldn't make rent. 810 00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:30,880 I would say in real terms right now, it's costing us things like 811 00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:34,200 my team is responsible for the severe warning sirens in the 812 00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:37,880 city, and we have not had time to do the maintenance needed to 813 00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:40,080 make sure those are ready ahead of tornado season. 814 00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:42,480 So it's having that kind of real impact now. 815 00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:46,080 Wow, so you're worried about dealing with other issues? 816 00:43:46,360 --> 00:43:48,720 Absolutely. We have a lot of ongoing work 817 00:43:48,720 --> 00:43:51,800 that has all been on pause since this has occurred. 818 00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:54,440 Rachel, thank you very much. Thank you so much. 819 00:43:56,640 --> 00:43:59,240 Actually, the interview you just did with her reminds me of 820 00:43:59,240 --> 00:44:04,520 Hurricane Katrina in New Orleans in 2005 when America looked like 821 00:44:04,520 --> 00:44:06,240 a war zone. And, you know, the law 822 00:44:06,240 --> 00:44:09,840 enforcement agencies responded to it really badly. 823 00:44:10,400 --> 00:44:12,400 George Bush was really slow in his own response. 824 00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:15,760 And finally, that did more damage to George W Bush than 825 00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:19,400 even the Iraq War and and ultimately led to the victory of 826 00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:21,120 Barack Obama at the next presidential election. 827 00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:24,880 So when America, a country that likes to keep wars very much on 828 00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:28,760 the other side of oceans, begins to feel like a war zone at home, 829 00:44:29,080 --> 00:44:32,240 then there is political trouble. And it is something that is 830 00:44:32,240 --> 00:44:35,360 quite extraordinary and head spinning for the people who are 831 00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:38,480 trying to run this city and this state. 832 00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:41,920 I think they're hoping that Minnesota and Minneapolis will 833 00:44:41,920 --> 00:44:45,400 stop being quite such a flashpoint, but we must keep in 834 00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:47,840 touch with the people we've been meeting here to see whether that 835 00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:50,520 really happens. And it's only just the end of 836 00:44:50,520 --> 00:44:53,560 January, Anoska. Oh my goodness. 837 00:44:53,800 --> 00:44:55,400 Is it only just the end of January? 838 00:44:55,400 --> 00:44:58,680 It is I, I I I Oh my. Goodness, you thought it was 839 00:44:58,720 --> 00:44:59,680 your day into. Spring. 840 00:45:00,240 --> 00:45:03,040 What have we had? Venezuela, Nicolas Maduro, 841 00:45:03,040 --> 00:45:04,720 Greenland. Davos. 842 00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:10,040 NATO. And by the way, as we speak, and 843 00:45:10,040 --> 00:45:13,080 this will be, you know, next week's subject, I'm sure, the 844 00:45:13,080 --> 00:45:16,120 USS Abraham Lincoln. And you know, it's battles 845 00:45:16,280 --> 00:45:21,400 battle group, which is basically a, a Navy that in it, this 846 00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:24,240 little, this group, this flotilla, this Armada of ships 847 00:45:24,240 --> 00:45:28,680 moving towards the Gulf is bigger than the Navy of the vast 848 00:45:28,680 --> 00:45:32,440 majority of countries in the world moving towards the Gulf. 849 00:45:32,840 --> 00:45:34,560 I have a friend who lives in Abu Dhabi. 850 00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:36,680 He's been told to basically come home. 851 00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:39,840 Flights have been cancelled by a number of International 852 00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:41,320 Airlines, including American Airlines. 853 00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:45,040 Watch that space. Donald Trump is not done with 854 00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:49,560 January yet, Anushka. We will see you next week when I 855 00:45:49,560 --> 00:45:51,360 think it will be February, won't it? 856 00:45:51,560 --> 00:45:52,640 It will be. See you then. 857 00:45:52,720 --> 00:45:53,000 Bye.