Hallo zusammen, die heutige Folge des Völkerrechtspodcasts
wurde vom Team des Symposiums Women in International Law
gestaltet. Als Sonderfolge wurde sie in
englischer Sprache produziert, beim nächsten Mal hören wir uns
dann wieder auf Deutsch, viel Spaß beim Zuhören.
And i are pushed this baby i and i literity with like what i have
i have a field weak. What can everyone to the special
episode of the forkest to portcast?
You but Gast for international lou interry and practice by name
is selin shows and I'm delight it to up in today.
The Episode We'ch Focuses on Mother Heard and international
Lou this episode's concus the Fifth Annual Woman International
Lou Symposium who's that on the fulcus to blog if we here doing
the, we call the International womans they the Symposium
bringst to get a blog Post and putcast with the objektive to
Explorer women's right. Them in is uporges to
international lo and the chalenges Woman face in legal
Academia. This here we turn all attention
specifical to motherhood was an international lo and legal
academia, my colliek we'll share with you no mobile back one
information on the struggle face by movers and on movers in
Academia and beyond then see see cats an jenpol in a kulish this
kind is the topic will orgest we see to the flo is your.
Mottles of bintuditionly, depicted as herwans and out
think Mom us mit Donald Ikans slimon montsours family from the
camp cassical withs modos or the protection of the mother of God
and literature from folgenden Songs to Breakts Mother Carage
and Hood children in international law Models make
that presents lowden till. Especially and stets feed to
protect that childance rights for leslie they've initiated
litigation, but for global fora seaging justice for loses like
the UN and the nedalins failure to pretrom the tribanic of
geneside and fast is apparance is an extrajudition killings and
lat in America childance femeside or killings by nazilink
groups. These case is pro funly impacted
international law, trucking, true, human rights and fosment
stir transponsibility and transitional justice.
Get Academia harshleepinlizes this harrans by a the motherhood
benity a Symposium call this casters how mother's publish
twelve team pasent for a papers like your twenty pasentless
funding and face ten pasent lour ten or alls post childbot agab
that faders topicly aveed, but they fadderhood bonus even
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cardio to jetries quer and non sus gender women face applifite
barriers at obgendered biases legal hotels blocking parentor
trites like non reckignition of seems ex fam laser i've access
as a controut as will expand. International Law offers tools
like the ilo Etonity protection convention, the cedo provisions
them uped a protokoll, but this it sheed all modos gaps yeon for
black and roma modos and the oring disrimnity refuctive cash
or do's and sames ex partnerships at adenite
equality, mental healt risks loom lodge was in the Name
configs and Post configsones via truma and gender wilance.
States and helpworkers face applications for repuctive
justice and yet you're studance off and the infoses in
aqualities how can be eliminate this is connetry gaps.
Think He ricity I'm Paulina coulition I'm read a like in
forward to there's conversation. And I'm CC cats only it's grate
to have a runterful like a them because with us today.
Tanja Eachela Diladno Bulls Doctor a reserter at Suric
University. Michelle Stacks can't sell
senior electorar at the School of Oriental and African Studies,
University of London. Enchoice Deconing Bulls Doctor a
reserter affiliated with Kind University Welcome.
To key of are listeners a beat of a backround to would like to
state that bolf michelle enjoys are members of fokarechts blogs
scientificadvisor support, which is a centraly buddy that offer
citificadvisor a ditorial team right.
Tanja is not see minerity a scientificadvisor report member,
she was a centraly the master rine behind is symposium two and
car of interview in the context of the person behind the acadab
x Symposium last here tanja's stress and i quold that.
If you are series about the jiving gentary quality in
academia, we need to speak moralpendy about motherhood
caregiving and academic carriers, and you we are today
speaking specificly about the seasons.
In the as a selin and ricity clarifight in the introduction.
The very aim of this bootcast is to explorer the relationship
between motherhood and the development of onsecademic
carrier. Aswall is the Wace in the rich,
the International legal Academia as a working environment and as
a research community can't be com a batterplace for mother and
no mother academics so to beginn this conversation we've like to
us coragas. Can you tell us about you
experience with don't motherhood and motherhood so far and how
has that experience influenced you cariapoffice joys what you
like per ups to start. Just think you and a me start by
just thing thank you for the invitation and by way of caviat
my thols and observations or offered base on my on very short
live the experience as a mother as my new bourne has not even
reach three mons. And they are carectrice by the
fact that I'm postuctoral researcher in in export
community, so nothing i see is not is serraly generalizable
that if it rings true and have he tick in to me the
comversation so two points on one on my experience and one on
influence the first bing that what i experience going thre
pregment see the first post partum thase.
Is a los of identity of sorts and a los of voice.
I feel like my voice has been cooped to a little bit and i
have been requalified by other's I'll tid in my own person as a
mother ruther and a resercher and is rangers from being to all
down, but you want to kid so you have to deal with the factor you
might not get a follow up a system professorship to people's
helling me activity that my priority's will change an
Academia. And that one say be comamother i
will stop caring about geting hired in academic institutions
chalking leave this is noticase and in finally been tall that
you know my reactions or my critics with in the academic
spaces, maybe guideed by hormons ruther, then affective critic on
the word that I'm person a confronted with so this to see
that my experience last for as been by a lurge positive, but i
have that shocked by the fact that my voices been quoped it in
that people are. Speaking in my stat, then to the
feeling of influence and this is one that really hits home
inquising the in the post part of Phase.
I feel quite isolided and anziehen, so the learning curve
as the moters that have going to this is steep and this go's from
learning hot a change dipers and your standing maximation
requirements and different conties administration
registration learning what the different christ of your baby
means. Learning how to multitask
thinking about effekt that a bad needs to be conbine or a running
about needs to be conbine with rushing your ped because you
want me have limit at time to beable two take here of all the
things at the seem time understanding have pumping words
how to refrigerate and free's brustmilk how to undest how to
brust feed and public how to travel with the child all of the
stings have them and you have the a commendations that are
made. Even a fakes is the judith
defacto or quit limited and it's bathling to me because the a
comedations that a prignante person or a post partum paring
needs or archely quit limited and what have emance effekts on
the feeling of Inklusion of Post partum parents and pragnant
people and just to get a fue and then all stop.
If we can't read emery sloters peace on why women still can't
have it all that already with offer a platera a ways for word
in a comedading parents to cool if we can have workshops
conferences präsentations organize not at times of pickup
and i'm not even and not phase of my lifiat but not at pickup
times not at times, we're parents or potential to that
would already a lauf for new parents, pragnant people et
cetra to be all to continu and joining the conversation if we
can've. Central heißt University
institutional policies that help especially expat international
moters imparance one coming to and new institution that with
already go miles and finally, but we have a joop it not really
if we can have a couch for pragnant people and post perdam
moters because that one minute nap changes the entire kurs of
my day and we as i just to think it was exaderated i know
interstand that a couch can go a very very long we.
Think we're want to for for sharing your insights experience
and such at candy to it for have stany with you like to continu
the conversation. Yes, so i think you we're not
for the invitation and congratulations on this
initiative and just like joy side, i will's a be tucking
about my personal experience, so it's in no way a generisible.
But i what's a as and me for me motherhood as informs my carrier
pat, but not only also migration and this is probably the case
for many women hupersu a carrier in international legal academium
migration, my be a major consideration when.
Designing to be I'm mother, not a special because of the changes
of be of being pragnant just just a talk to about it and
razing a chile in a place different from your home town,
so you have to learn very quickly the institutional
arrangements for chilcare or schooling you have to make
France will a network from stretch in som cases me even
learn a different language. So i can imagine that a lot of
weam and who cooper sue a carrier international my chaeway
from motherhood and given all this in men's challenges, but at
the end in overall, i think it's so very enriting experience not
only personaly professionaly, but also for the kids because
the kids also learn to to krawalp in this different
emiraments and so i think we should all be barry open about.
This experenses that's international student phase when
haveing when dring a peached, you're brod and bing pragnant or
haveing haveing a child and so i think all do's being vary open
about this experenses my help also lesson the challenges when
been a mother and personing a car you're in legal i can you.
Think we're not ton it, michelle what i's think you're about
this. Thank you so I'm not polena and
the usual kind of it's supply everything about to say it's
based on person experience, so if it's generalizable i'm
grateful to the orient's but don'tness really specta i
suppers i come at this from the officeident of the spectram in
that i've been a mother now for sixteen.
Years sixteen years in a month of all there abouts and i have
birded a doel to and a son my doel to sixteen and my son is
thirteen, so I've i's on the stand and for the empathires
we've birds what joys and tonia asan, but i can't to academia
have in donna PHD with a fiderold and a three rold and my
hill my hill carrier that's far as been.
With with childrens with of evolving into teenagers and i
would i would reacherate and a firm what burs joys and tonia
habority set in toms of the importance and the problems of
cersiated with bos the timings for various academic of the
events. Everyone's Voice, been coopted
and all so dealing with migration and mother hut.
I think another and editional layer of complication and
complexity to on's live, but what i what's say to out tool of
that is that i think it's really about on the standing, the
relationship between work and mother hut as no on the mother
to to be. Caring that responsibility, i
think the mother has to be there's catful and safgot of by
the people around her virs mail and female and all so on the
stud as an essential and important part of anywork plays
in Barrel and and specifical an academia virs for what she
contributes in toms of hanologian on the standing of
different epistemic wise of sing the world.
But all so in toms of what he's bringing what he's the next
generation or of people to to the planet and this is constant
invisible sense in which all this labor is bing on the taken
and it's not really calculator, it's in form pot of jdp it's
also's consited bone t and I'm not furny in andy y sign, it's
shoopy pot of jdp because there there is complexities and
consens i would have with that, but what i am sign is it is
really. Important that we don't see it
is some how and add on two academia.
It's it's actually out of a fundamental polit of merst of
all ones. No everyone an Academia will
just to be apparent, but quad of you have and the traditional
that i been man so it has an been as mucha vanicio oh oh has
an been seen as mucha vanicio, but I'm i think for the next
generation that's no long a going to be the case and i think
it's something we only to take on board.
Think you michelle now in the context of the person behind
academic symposium. It was also not it that in that
past writing a have this and beached the thesis with almost
garantie electorership some here with also's a jest that this
like no longer be the case in you're, you is motern
international lega lakatimia peculia you think it is any
different from any have a job markets that we'en the need to
get really navigate the specialy when a design to be kind parents
that. To you think down you.
You're so definity up disertation is now now a they're
not an off for alecture to bring alecture you're respekted to
have serrol publications a side from the disertation and this my
also we very dunting a spely if if they're complining you page d
you get prignant and so I'm how you have to cat job and i'm in
there there are several studies the show that we'm don't cat
job. In relation to they're
mailcolity to have also be comparance for the first time,
so i'm in this gender gap will remain all the time so of cars
as institutional arrangements are are this are but what I'm
what i'm like for i most to q your from from the.
Of the Jog Marketing International legal Academia is
that it is is tructure as he. We we're some how high
performance affly so we're in the royal bolay so we're have
we're expected to have a sertant a mount of outbut it's a
relative john h and we're pressiposes a linear continuus
progressive carrier was no debians.
And i and of corsi's the certainly in contradiction with
motherhood and i don't really see the logic in this because
are a task stone depend or now or biological h or physical
performance, so this really do's an make in the sense, so it is a
beal out for women not to very about timing because timing also
pressure as in now or different choises of cours, we have the
crasher ok you have to if you one to be i'm mother you have
to. You have to rush because then
later you when be possible what every so i don't think and don't
see really the logic of that's in the job market.
It's at be all out to have like you know a post to we more
flexible with time and evan and in the academia and student with
benefit you know from people haveing AA different experience
in life and i'm just haveing this linear.
Your with with no upsticals no position ona.
Yeah, i think you make a really good point that tonya and times
of not sing it so I'm not just a as A-Linie a trugectory or a
progress narrative and you get a the samtime there all some
peculiarities potaning to legal academia in poticula i we don't
think you about moden. International The Academia Bing
Peculia as a you know there, i just you're all sur framing.
You is a historical lack of women in the workplace, a
partical and academia i can post the seveni o private the
nineteen seventies you know rosan and higgins of coast bing,
the champion for all of us and someni Respekts.
There was basicly no women of there a few women in
international legal Academia. All Beat there will Women's
Grips advicading at the League of nations of no for for women's
rights and in other in other Respekt, pot of of international
LOL and but the constitution and creation of it.
So yeah is the is is modern like International Little Academia
Pecuia I think it is in the sense that the job the roll of
the academic for me is one and rich you can have a complete,
you're a job you know we have to bekomme used to.
Constantly realizing that the work never really ends because
andy project that you're working on is something it will thinking
about usually outside of the office anyway, any research
project and the nature of the work is that there's always more
work, then it actually can't be don or it's at the sames that to
right to me and i think one of the consons of that rises
motherhood is it concords and incredible sense of this or
awelming. And over what and sands burst
from from from modus, he are in academia at all so from they're
employers that they don't going to be apple to key pop, they
don't going to beables to do the job because it's hot and of to
do when you don't have child and that lone when you do, but what
i'm what i you is that actually motherhood ans a dimension to
the wayye work which can it in infekt be quarted useful for
that i think are realice personaly that.
Bring a motherment i have to do things in soten all is i have to
get things done and i was not better it sing no to my boss,
sorry i can't do that unlitry i car because i have to go to
basketball practice or i have to tech so and so here or i have to
go camail and i'm not willing to sacrifice my time is my children
in or it to get this job done and i think that was usful as
away of reframing my on workout was.
In and man of that man that i was still geting the work down
and i and you know is fanta i here this all the time for my
malcolates I've malcolic is an editor of a journal.
If we're radan outical full and I'm can't you did that really
quickly and you did it well, i don't like just because i don't
have any all the time. I get in this artical two days
and that's what it gets so i think in some ways there all
negatives about bing a mother in the workplace and meeting to
exped that we're a long, but in all the ways it's you, i think a
much better muchmoral thard you in ability to say no and to set
the paramit is a bit mo was your employer invays that heart for
you can be use for to you and your kollegs and to all the
woman. So many interesting thots that i
want to jump in on the mibby what all offers of courst
perspektive of the person on the job market i with as in part
with as costion is also going and and the it's my sons is the
we offentic in of the evaluative perspektive, we're evaluate or
on sur constance is being more diared as does of buters, but
what i like back and here the accounts of mursenior female
academics. And how day with fair in the job
market two and years a go II do rocking nice thatwe've.com a
very, very longway so what I'm offering is as somot of an new
ons tick my mother was here to just a couple wix a go to have
me in this first post part and face and she was just in all of
the fuck that is a poststock and my partner being a professor we
have vibility to kind of work from home when need it with a
louse for a bitmore linian c and how we tick her are baby and so
that is different bit of the samed.
I do rocked nice that the job market at these in continental,
your up at the moment for people in international and European
Law academia, it is dier i feel like I've hit all the marks to
be hired, but we don't get hired is compleedlistive circum senses
and factors that you don't not us here we have in a controll
over and so, but we have anic doed that up sevenowers have to
a screener interview for one of the institutions and i'm crently
applying for my waterbricks. And lo and be holt to be
application procedure just not stop simply because my water
broken i get birth to this liter right so one i was that called
up to tick the next part of the application.
Do the job talk in the full day of interviews with a potential
fly out at setra, you know i have to trice i can see no all
just set back in what and not if an all just set back, i can't
set back and retrocked my canded to see or i think there i don't
feel and i get this is an a dodle i don't feel like i have
the trice to set back and simply retrocked my application because
of the fuck of the the market is so dier that the samed time i do
racking is that there's a lot to be think for for in the curn
version of legal acadim you that.
We live and I'm thinking spe three things tools that working
uability to say no was my shales that so tools i find and this is
no and no way and insinuation that woman mothers anybody can
be doing this, but i have down that there moments doing my day
where i am responsible for the baby, but the baby is taking in
up or when i was prignant i was exosted and can get be hinda
computer, but that are tools to allow you to stay in the games
or to speak transcrption material that all also you.
To convert transposier's lots and to rit in text transcriping
material that all aus articles true speech of five, for example
to be diktate to you so that when you know you just siting
around brust feeding, what not that you know you can be listing
to things if that's what you want to big and not in
instinuition that edition be do in that, but for there's that
are interested, they are tools out there that confisility work
such in lee network, they're very off to invisible, but when
i like it the Atlas community as special in international law
they are. Solch supportive Network and
they can help you two by just listening by just providing
support, but also by making the connections that you have to
rise with mike and simular the we don't talk about it and off
that there are so many female academics when i look at my very
short triductory so far that have been so uplifting and
supported supportive and II wann bealed to do it out and then by
way of anaking up what mashalls that my out of offices still on
I'm on my turn, the live and so the fort of mart and.
It still i get orquests to jumpin on corses at different
institutions and people literally rackignising oh i see
that you're on beternity lee, but because you have as a last
of a class and it buffles me that one this question is still
being asked, but two mother hot dozalomi was a match last guild
to just say no. Think you for much, i think you
will right it touch up on the pressers.
And conserns as well as some silver liniens in this and
injity nova Symposium givea seved a number of contributions
that spoke about this inxiity that manifemalicadamics feeler
on the question of weather and how mother what can be reconsult
with a carrier in legalicademia so for those her navigate in the
question. What also do bond them to here
me shard, what are like to start perhaps?
Yes navigating weather not to be com a mother.
Yes, it's II get it's a it's a difficult question for for all
of us to ons up because we will main the choice so intimes of
the vice i've with give to my junga sof now i know what i know
now about mother heard and academia and the waising which
that navigation. Have to take plays or in d to
all the to all the win and out that i think that mother good
privites perspektive on live and on the the medi on theline
realities in which international operates that are some what you
think i don't want to say that is som sistended.
Disnovative Börse and we're say oh i have a unate perspektive
from haveing given birth to two children and haveing you know
that's star race them to to that teens that kind of the wise be a
tanged true of the forms of parenting, but what i would say
is that i think they're something about haveing to teach
another bang from the momet they bone.
How to live and work at to not work to live and be in this
world work is in you know psychological immentaly a
funship from the marmor of the various basic needs up to now
the more complex emotional problems dealing with anciety
dealing with stress dealing with fear and understanding how to
naviging that. As give in me a complexity of on
the standing about how it international operates that i
know sure i quit of God personally Andy all the way at I
think it give me burst a commitment to the integrity of
the field and we're john working that i all so i think is
highlighted when i's big to my children when i on the stand my
children three that live to experience and and the thing
was. Different different grips of
people, the will durva and i think why that happens is
because three the teaching that pedicogical process is a parent.
This something very internet about it and it it really brings
home things to you that you can't get just for a classroom
format and i think bringing that into the classroom is anabled me
to be a bad a teacher and a bad a scola.
So, i would like you full becoming amothery in stational
LOL, but pragmassiclial practically it's an incredible
chenging and difficult experience a lot at furious
points definitally because you're constantly multitasking
and it's it's a roll it never goes away.
I'm becoming amother I've becom amother as my children have
becomed them sales and i still becoming amother.
And that experience have a live's me so i think that
something that you you can get used to or in time, but is is a
massive transition in the begiting.
In responsed to what there you would are with and rockam and
that i'm going to it's a what i know right, i'm threemon sin to
this that i totally and just stand the angst and being of
that all there one i start at this truductory ain pot of the
reason at Tuck me a wild to get to this point is persisee
because i was acutely a where the fuck that it we change how
iphone my day, my priority is in what not and that it all of it
is true, so there's no way that i can in a generalizem and
generalizable matter. You know rock a man mother who
are not at the pens on your infidual circum senses.
We are you know in support not work is and so for it what your
institutions we like, but they you one to be a mother, but
there are of cors and numbers things that you can't take in to
consideration as your doing us and they're not man to be
negative there just realistic hot takes that i have base on
the threemons. They see that pragnancy every
singleday of the pragnancy am outs to at least one long and
doerance workout and that everyday brust feeding samting
that the a comedation for this is agan as i'm inturlier quiet
limited. If not non existed so imagine as
man that you're quiet all of as I'm do you know one down to
marathon training on as every singleday of every singled we
that is physicly what? Parent Sir New mom's are going
to so with that in mind i would erge people when you know
consitering these trises to reed emery sloters peace i would get
erge people to read granius roselyn and marcellas peace on
jander and the lidl ack dimia in icon i would push even if you're
not a parent if you're just a call of a parent for daycare i
your university, it's om stilly but at both institutions that
i'm at i don't real is it was there, but now noing that it's
there noing that i can bring my baby to die.
They here and still be grust feeding and still pocking and
out and see here is is a live saver push for a natural policy
at your institution. We've talk to about it a little
bit befor if you're a my grating researcher, there is nothing
quite as terrifying is kind of think out how to we get access
to bovic heldcare which doctors to go to what's schools to in
roll what's a positive experience we're to they speak
you know a companation of language is all this things or
easily aggrigate it in to a th. Will policy at a centralize
level at your university and if that is done well you do at once
and you have no more work on this and then findly what as i
that you know organization of workshops make you're calling so
where of the fact that this is something that can't really go
on right and a comedy to you, but i think for me specificly
what has been you know going back and he's three monts what i
wash i what of concitate more is the plase.
Or the part of the projectory and which i opted to be
comamother and you know sometimes you simply don't have
the choice and sometimes you steppen to your pjt and you are
you have children or you have children they are pjt, but if
you do have be operituity to think contestly about one, you
do that i'm not more that i would repeated in the post post
doctoral phase simply because you know it teams like you have
plenty of time, but the truth of it for me is that i feel a lot
of pressure to get hired the spite the fact that i have a
wonderful grant the keks. The imploit for and the next
cook live years. I keeping tool that if i don't
get hired so i will not get hired and that's some how i will
be to old to stepin to system professor position, so if you do
have the operation we have a conversation with your partner,
your support network and really consiter top to your colics and
some of your colics will probably you know have not so
gate experiences to here, but even that is valible information
so i can form to is if you can so us to no what's coming.
So it's also have a lot of to say to to the to the prius a
commons and we as i also share the ideas that's a get this
angst in one solution or is sharing talking about sharing.
This experience is whitley as for example, we we are doing now
and. I'm doing now legal History II
think about it and he's are a call terms and will yes, i'm in
if we read for example, this bolium by in me tulgrin portrate
of wemen in international so we can see that i'm in it was an
that long a go's in's we man we're all out in the legal
profession I'm in this was only in the twenty so we also don't
have really a lot of roll models to follow and.
In my personal experience for me at least Klaus Roadmodels II
have have this operatunity me because of the different
migrations experience i've have so of querity to have to talk
about this very open openly. And also i see, we can also we
more openable the choices we have now abailable and how how
we.com up with this choices right, the we just one thing
about the other what are the Prozess behind all this choices?
For example, and me and we're live in your home contry to
person legal carrier, what choices do you face?
Maybe all so live a Partner there and you ok see the love of
your life or a legal carrier, for example, what choicing to
marry not to marry have a child ran social freesing and there we
have nowal this choice is that word a bailable maybe fif to
your so goso we're get also tok more opely about this.
And and then junger generations, this will how be junger
generations to have brother prospektives because they like
be more informed about the challenges a strategies that we
go on like for example, joys talk to about the the the tools
we know have but me so that's be in toking about the skills we
aquir so they be more open about ok, how what skills do do you do
we aquir now like for example time as time get so skilled.
There's care's when you when you be come a mother and so i think
really the being very open about all.
There's proceses behind you know when we have in this choices,
all the proceses we have phasing this choices trusing one for the
other or not trusing not all i think.
This this all haves the jungar generations and the get this is
against the invisibility because we ten to you we like take it
for granted. Oh yes, i can but there all lot
of things we have to go for and for mania was mania was do this
for the first time, i'm in my grandma or my mom was and in the
possible to say ok, i will per sue APHD you know in you're not
i will go by my all myself i will go to another contry we.
I can these disisions wearnt abailable event for for a two or
three generations of goso so i think this this has to be as
pokan more more openly about the changes of cours and the
gratifications that's all was it ranks.
Do i think it ania no a citro the struckles at motherspace in
legal Academia. I think we are also man of us
ralso familia with this drugles at no mother academics face and
you old nention there your you're ons there's that you as
mothers you fill muchmore protective and you see no and
you are in the batter position to that's ambulenteries but um
numerus ocations we see that. Also mother academics and
excuseed for have in to do carework attolment as not
haveing to do this carework at the university and like this
sitrations no mother academics are sort of expected to stepin
in satituations and do the carework instat to you have and
he that experience is you're incure you're not mother with
academic steps and what do you think what we do is or a
liminate is phänomen. And you know jumpin here with a
very context specific anic doed if you will i did not is and i
get it can be because of the context specific we but i did
not is the during the covid pandemic in terms of you know
the priority is or who is us to take out the larger part of the
burden, the academic warkapening online i did not is that at
least in my situation and for my callings at the time that the
single woman without children, we're the ons that.
Picking up the brumpt of the work so a speak so you know good
ranging from things like Micking Shore II.
That's some point i have to going to the university to make
shore that one of the professor's who was and know
offering a zoom class with beable to do the zoom class
proberly and have set up the laptop and stop like that or to
set up alsoert of online examination.
Not it's to the point, there was i was feeling super super
isolated and feeling like i know we're go to bring from we're
pricy because i was that one person that didnt have the
children or the partner and just was expected to take on what i
do i don't i don't want to over dramatize that because i did
realize we'll in to the pandemic and probible for to late and we
we're all kind of just learning as we're going on that
communication was key there not nasseserity with your hi robs
not nasseserity you know the. Tusion and souls but trily with
just your mother coalics and just haveing my conversation,
they're openly with them very quickly resulted in an alternate
of way to working. That's when be bro together
actually the motherhood and not motherhoods trends of a
conversation and in an inpower inspired as a closing question
and that's asq it. If you can name one change that
we all can contribute to in the culture or everday practice of
international legal academia at what make it is morsestanian
place for moters and non moters academics what with the change
be tony will you like perhaps to start it?
Yeah, so you're one thing is it what we've been toking about
like toking more opely about this experenses not taking it
for for grantes. And really not discurrenting
wemen of bing moters and and exalian legal academia.
I think both is possible and again if we if if you're
generations of or if we are sony with this choice between one or
the other then surrealy this with contribute to
invisibalizing. Women in international low so i
get one really this bolum on portrates of women in
international also it's Truck and me in it strucks me how the
idea of the international lowyer is this like nutral thing but
that the end is about white man, but if we key porn, you know
thing all it's a chalinging that i'm in we are really
contributing to this shirt of. Nutral ID of the international
lya with the end is like very. It's just about a man on
wightman so of cars and me like like michelle and joes have
beensey here women and me mother what brings a lot of skills and
it also brings a lot of empathy to word feels that are regulator
by international like, for example, migration lo one moms
are also in this experens of my migration.
All so that i the as about PS PS and war for example, in all the
reals like art i can think of get they call of beats and and
her drowings of anti anti war drowings of wiman protecting
there children and this was all all of her experience of lucing
one son in the first world war so we of cars bringing a we
experience of my thirsing how we reserching how we teach.
They should and be be cigulies. It's would be like more opaly
agnolic and it's you don't be relegate to the to the private
bing, I'm mother and again the changes my team for some or i
i'm in many superfitialy that you my team ons or mountable
but. We can't all be corages we man
but i we're partner us what they have to be very patient the
chilrent they also have to what that and i also think for as as
we man it's like also be how to the think about it on if and the
legal academies we're fokus on in the beval in the beval
achivment but not to think it as an in the beval achivment with
more of. Of a collective work and a
gradual and a gradual change it mynot.com II think in my
personal in my personal of stands.
Me it, i don't to team it. We we i don't get tenor it's ok,
i we know have we we have to go there this it's can to happen
but a blist i'm me by insisting that it's possible that you help
you help younger generations and we're should we're just also you
that we don't happen me, it's it it, it's it's it's it's a more
gradual change because as michelle suggest it's not only
about we man it's a holt institutional thinky it's also
about man. And so it it will need more
time, but we have to key one insisting.
So if it building on that, i quinnagrimor of the fuck that we
know to open maeagnologmore this invisible forces at play.
That do profite this port and for there's pring on people out
there or this, you know first time post port like not event
just the first timer is, but this post post port um moms your
female academics um this is of corsnotics offs to but your
female academics and baby not all of them.
But buy and large they are you're gigest alice they have
going true it. They are going true it or they
like be thinking of going true it and they'd i liest to me,
we're the biggest bad as support not work that i could have hope
for i have for the air is of labor and i was an a chat with
that least ten female academics that literity poled me true that
inspired me infurge me to heat going.
And they're otherity of lifting and one of there's imperticular
and all the frame from nameing, but i think that and you're
crusion poline of your conreately one of the things
that i don't not see coming but has been complate mind blowing.
Factor in in this post parmum phase is that this one woman
that you know any workshop any event that I'm organizing that i
am some have the alter of your baby is welcome and low in be
holt i want to my word first workshop two days a go and rob
baby Sophia and is it deficaled shore, it's it's defical, but if
we starting this more as a community ruther that you know
this individualisticking that moters have to go to or pregnum
persons have to go to and then maybe in do cors there will be
some form. Call you and god know is that
haveing my baby. There is a got them god
herminder of why i'm in this feel to be can with.
You're thinks choice antonia just to read rate what you're
have set. I'll be i'll end we're are i be
going we just to say that i think it's an important prozess
and important part of the word fulls that we all they to be a
we're all and a we all they to word to to to.
To make a reality that woman who are that modus can be part of
international will academia and for that i've really one a
cooped all mail alice and incurage man as muches woman to
be supportive of newmoms and modus and pragnancy.
The number of times of have to pull a aredal out of my handbag
when lena looking this for for a powerpoint präsentation will
something outs in a in a in a workplace all have to consisting
me juggle the demons of mothercud was working.
In in the workfols and not feel ital as there, i was doing that
isolated from my mail kollegs. I think it's relate important.
I think it's important that man realize that it's not just a
woman sting you know the hole pregnancy in motherhood sonaria
that actually they're in the way they you know they geting to do
that job without it. Is if that have children is
because the the mother is with the children, so if if there
work and they got kids of home and some of this is the we've
there's children and it's you know i going to like the to be
it is a mom or a baby sit or or anany more of to the not you was
a all so a woman so i think it's about insuring that as not just
possible this bekommes and. Is you with mancy as as in Polen
as women do and I'm grateful for the malcolics i have who's being
generali feminist in there a proge to the word place in the
work falson I've never make me feel is there for any rason i
can't refuse work or i'm going to be some how you don't look to
the as a result of being in mother I'm very lucky in very
fortunate and that i do have a tenit position it so us and.
I have no at a andy stage, you're my tonbat be in my to
feel that the next steps in my carrier with be provented i've
be provented from from going to will professorship as result of
have in children, but i think i I'm still I'm ongs to my nargy
in in Academia in in feeling that problidge and I'm very
where that so I'm as not in on the kit for women's rights as
i've really we all should be. And i and i Herd mal mal
workplace is will amulate some of the the policies that so us
has it place to mc that happen, but never the last.
I think yeah, it's it's there. I want to about get it man on
board because i think it's to reased for us to think all well,
it's just women that they to for to had and and me the the path
for it. I think everyone that's you to
to do that regardas of gendar or identity.
Thank you very not here we shadow tinian toys for sharing
with us your respektive experience, but also your ideas
on how we will can make the internationaly galakademium more
inklusive space so when we find this this conversation that's
like it is hapon thank you very what.
Thank you for joining thanks very but.
We'll this was very interview and.
It what you think a stape of do you see see i think.
That go with stap with me, particularly long have to it
this. I was this tandes rek mark
recarding the existing academic leak assistent what essentialy
prasers to perform like aphits. Or some how expected to heat,
sert and milestones very arly on in our academic life, and we're
kind of light to the assumption at motherhood is a bird and that
was stand in our pay so me be d's important to rebell ergänzt
this systems requirements and the expected pays of are of our
work of the roll we on fugger x blog of o we's advocated for
slow academia and academia that is last orcheston speed and
morph august quality. What is is in your mind polina
i. Think but i'd like to reflect on
a beatlongar is that michelle dan choice highlight it that
traditional so was no problem of Reconsiling your mother holt was
an academic aria because academics for a man and just
daniels unoted event two of three generations a go man you
of the choices and live basses that we can discust to day we're
simpleing no to vailable to be man.
And you know at voker it's voker we have this symposium could the
person behind academic, which in interview series with academics
tries to bring to the fofront the individual behind the
scolary works are interests, there background et cetera, but
in the context of to days diskussion, this phase actually
takes on the digital minion because historicly the person
behind academic was off to the woman, the onthou provided car.
How that we think to get a made it bossible for the mail
academics to drive so perhaps will out as always fully note is
in it. We're all in historical terms
navigate in the relative the new terrain and that is persise a
buy we new to more conversations like we have to da.
Ja, that's that's feri just think and i think feria i can't
just a conclusion. And we that i think we fridge
the at of the days episode. We're really have your feedbacks
at justiz or commons, so please for freed to share at rechout
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