1 00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:06,000 Take a look behind the curtain with a real whistleblower, an 2 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:08,400 American patriot. Prepare to embrace the 3 00:00:08,400 --> 00:00:11,880 uncomfortable truth, because this program has no time for 4 00:00:11,880 --> 00:00:14,320 comforting lies. Here is civil liberties 5 00:00:14,320 --> 00:00:18,240 enthusiast, Second Amendment defender, and recovering FBI 6 00:00:18,240 --> 00:00:22,600 agent Kyle Serif. Hello my friends, welcome to the 7 00:00:22,600 --> 00:00:25,360 Kyle Serif show. Today is Thursday, it is May the 8 00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:29,680 23rd, and we're rolling live right now on rumble.com/kyle 9 00:00:29,680 --> 00:00:31,400 Serafin. You can join us over there in 10 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:33,320 the live chat and you should do so. 11 00:00:33,480 --> 00:00:35,240 Make sure that you've hit the thumbs up, which is the like 12 00:00:35,240 --> 00:00:36,440 button. Make sure you've subscribed or 13 00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:38,120 follow the channel. And if you want to contribute 14 00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:40,680 financially to keeping us going, you can do that as well by 15 00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:41,880 clicking the follow button a second time. 16 00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:43,560 It'll give you the option to subscribe. 17 00:00:43,720 --> 00:00:46,680 It's 5 bucks a month and it goes directly to us, 100% of it, 18 00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:48,800 which is really cool. We really appreciate Rumble. 19 00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:51,240 There it is rumble.com/kyle Serafin follow over there. 20 00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:52,880 I don't know how much longer going to be able to do the 21 00:00:52,880 --> 00:00:55,200 YouTube game. Really don't see anything useful 22 00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:56,800 on Facebook. So if you guys want to come do 23 00:00:56,800 --> 00:00:58,840 that, it's either X right now or Rumble. 24 00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:00,720 And Rumble is the preferred place because I can actually 25 00:01:00,720 --> 00:01:03,040 engage and see what you're doing during the chat. 26 00:01:03,040 --> 00:01:04,959 So definitely come over and join us on there today. 27 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:06,840 We're going to have a guest. We're going to have a guest 28 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:08,080 interview. We're going to be talking to 29 00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:11,400 another former federal agent. I think you guys will get a big 30 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:14,160 kick out of this. This is going to be an episode 31 00:01:14,160 --> 00:01:17,640 with Aaron Gogley. You've seen his picture on the 32 00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:20,000 thumbnail. We're going to get to know the 33 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:21,600 man. He's a guy that I was following 34 00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:22,960 on Twitter. Long. 35 00:01:22,960 --> 00:01:25,480 Before I ever had a Twitter account, it was one of those 36 00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:27,600 things that's like someone who would speak insanity. 37 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:30,280 And I always knew that he was a federal agent of some kind, but 38 00:01:30,280 --> 00:01:33,040 I didn't know until after he decided to unveil himself and 39 00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:35,240 after he retired. So we get a nice chance to catch 40 00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:36,920 up and talk about some things that I think will be 41 00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:38,200 interesting. The process. 42 00:01:38,320 --> 00:01:41,120 Who are the people that are behind kind of that term Fed? 43 00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:43,240 What kind of people are they? I think you'll find that more 44 00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:46,320 often than not, they're guys like Aaron and they're, they're 45 00:01:46,320 --> 00:01:48,400 decent human beings that that signed up for a good purpose 46 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:50,160 doesn't mean that the purpose always turns out well. 47 00:01:50,160 --> 00:01:52,120 A lot of people don't stand up for the right things. 48 00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:53,720 Aaron did. And we'll talk about that in 49 00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:55,120 just a little bit here. Before we do, I want to say 50 00:01:55,120 --> 00:01:57,400 thanks to a couple sponsors #1 Catholic Vote. 51 00:01:57,400 --> 00:01:59,200 You guys can sign up for the Loop and you should do so. 52 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:01,720 If you do not get the Loop every morning in your e-mail, you are 53 00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:03,640 missing out. 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And you do that by hitting 81 00:03:04,040 --> 00:03:07,000 customize on any of their products and then go to stock 82 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:08,880 images and pick the suspendables. 83 00:03:09,080 --> 00:03:12,040 You'll be able to do what you just saw there or others. 84 00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:14,480 Some people have put suspendable or die with the flag or with the 85 00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:16,800 badge and so on. We really appreciate it and we 86 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:19,360 appreciate Patriot Coolers for supporting us and supporting our 87 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:20,840 free speech and keeping us going. 88 00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:23,040 So if you guys want to do that and get behind them, 89 00:03:23,720 --> 00:03:28,600 patriotcoolers.com promo code Kyle, should we do one more 90 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:30,360 before we wrap it all up? Let's just talk about this. 91 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:34,040 My favorite jerky in the world. I think that is actually bar 92 00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:35,080 none. I haven't had one that I like 93 00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:37,600 more. Matt Hat jerky.com/kyle is a 94 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:41,440 healthful, high protein snack. You save 20% by using my name as 95 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:43,160 a promo code. They've got a taste it and love 96 00:03:43,160 --> 00:03:45,680 it or your money back guarantee. I don't know who's using it. 97 00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:49,280 They also have a buy the Smack your Mama or Smack your Grandma 98 00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:52,240 spicy challenge that if you film yourself eating a whole bag of 99 00:03:52,240 --> 00:03:54,040 the spicy stuff, they'll send you another bag bag of your 100 00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:55,560 choice. That sounds terrible. 101 00:03:55,560 --> 00:03:57,520 It's really, really hot. It's got Reaper Peppers. 102 00:03:57,680 --> 00:03:59,680 If you guys are into super spicy you could try that out. 103 00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:01,960 That's not my game. I stick with the black truffle 104 00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:05,520 mad hat jerky.com/kyle promo code Kyle. 105 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:08,240 Same as everywhere else, promo code Kyle will save you 20%. 106 00:04:08,440 --> 00:04:10,720 It also tags us in the order, so good stuff there. 107 00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:13,440 And you know, if you're in the market for a high quality snack, 108 00:04:13,840 --> 00:04:15,520 this is the one. This is the one I like. 109 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:16,920 I have it under my desk right now, actually. 110 00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:19,079 Here, let me show you. There it is. 111 00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:21,600 It's slowly getting burned away. All right, folks, we're going to 112 00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:23,360 jump into this interview. I think you guys are going to 113 00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:26,160 have a good time with. It Aaron's kind of a nice 114 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:27,640 smooth. Talker, he's exactly what I 115 00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:29,880 expect from a Fed who worked for the IRS. 116 00:04:30,040 --> 00:04:34,840 He's smooth, he's confident, he is decisive, and he is 117 00:04:34,840 --> 00:04:37,240 meticulous in his speech. You guys will see that, and I 118 00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:38,920 think it does give a little view behind the curtain. 119 00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:40,000 That's what we're all about here. 120 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:42,520 Love seeing it. All right, stick around and 121 00:04:42,520 --> 00:04:45,320 let's do it. Aaron, can I tell you something 122 00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:47,160 kind of crazy? Sure, go ahead. 123 00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:49,800 I just sent a text message before we went and started 124 00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:53,160 recording this to my buddy who introduced me to your anonymous, 125 00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:56,920 semi anonymous Twitter account. And I said, do you remember Sir 126 00:04:56,920 --> 00:04:58,880 Aaron? And he said the raccoon. 127 00:04:59,240 --> 00:05:01,880 And I said, no, not the raccoon. The guy, the guy that used to 128 00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:03,160 mix it up with Bill Shipley online. 129 00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:05,360 And he goes, yeah, what about him? 130 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:06,680 I said, well, I'm going to do an interview with him. 131 00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:08,840 He's like, that's crazy. He gave me that oh face. 132 00:05:08,840 --> 00:05:13,000 So anyway, you had some, you had some traction with some feds on 133 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:14,600 a anonymous Twitter account. I'm going to start from the 134 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:15,720 beginning though, before we get there. 135 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:21,000 Let's start with who you are, where you grew up, and tell us a 136 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:23,320 little bit about your family and your kind of childhood because I 137 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:25,360 want to get into a lens you see the world with. 138 00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:30,120 Well, I guess maybe you should have moved backwards in time. 139 00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:33,560 So I was with the IRS for IRS criminal investigation for 25 140 00:05:33,560 --> 00:05:37,200 years. Retired July 2023 soon as I was 141 00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:41,920 eligible. So going back in time, I went to 142 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:44,320 University of Laverne in California. 143 00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:48,120 And the reason why I went there was because I always wanted to 144 00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:52,200 be in law enforcement. And so my cousin is or was a 145 00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:54,800 deputy US Marshall. I'm not sure where he's at now. 146 00:05:55,240 --> 00:05:58,640 So he majored in criminology. So I figured I needed a major in 147 00:05:58,640 --> 00:06:01,400 criminology. So that's I picked a school that 148 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:04,200 had criminology and they gave me a full ride. 149 00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:05,840 So that's where I went to school. 150 00:06:05,880 --> 00:06:09,480 And then I met some FBI agents and some IRS agents who told me, 151 00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:12,040 hey, you need to major in accounting if you want to get 152 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:15,600 into law enforcement. Changed my major to accounting, 153 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:18,520 got a degree in accounting, graduated from there. 154 00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:22,320 Going back in time, I lived all over Southern California for 155 00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:26,640 most of my life. Originally was born in Anaheim, 156 00:06:27,080 --> 00:06:30,240 lived in Norwalk for the first few years of my life. 157 00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:34,880 My dad is a Vietnam veteran. He was a mechanic for trucking 158 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:36,880 company. So at first, he worked for ICX, 159 00:06:36,880 --> 00:06:39,680 which went out of business. We wound up moving to 160 00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:42,440 Victorville. If you don't know where that is, 161 00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:46,920 that is in the high desert of California, a terrible place to 162 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:51,640 live, dry, dirty. But I let me know. 163 00:06:51,640 --> 00:06:53,000 A lot of people like the Mojave Desert. 164 00:06:53,480 --> 00:06:57,520 So my dad worked in Barstow, which is like halfway between 165 00:06:57,520 --> 00:06:59,720 Los Angeles and Las Vegas. Yes. 166 00:07:00,280 --> 00:07:05,080 Yellow Freight, they had a big, big center there right near the 167 00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:07,240 railroad, right. So Barstow is a huge railroad. 168 00:07:07,720 --> 00:07:11,320 I'm going down to Home Pass right there in Los Angeles, 169 00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:13,320 right? So my dad worked there. 170 00:07:13,320 --> 00:07:17,200 We lived in Victorville. Then I moved for high school 171 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:21,280 because I was apparently too smart for the local high schools 172 00:07:21,760 --> 00:07:24,680 in Victorville. I was in elementary school. 173 00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:28,360 I got in a lot of trouble, got suspended because I was testing 174 00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:31,480 at high school level. And so that's how bad the school 175 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:33,840 system was. I was in fifth grade, testing at 176 00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:36,680 high school levels, and so they wanted to put me in high school. 177 00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:38,880 My parents said no, I was getting all sort of trouble. 178 00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:43,200 So they homeschooled me for three years, and that worked out 179 00:07:43,200 --> 00:07:46,480 so good that they decided to move to a place called Phelan, 180 00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:50,440 which is right outside the mountain ranges, the San 181 00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:55,600 Bernardino Mountains, right near the Cahoon Pass, right where 182 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:58,320 most of the skiing is. And I went to a high school 183 00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:01,400 called Serrano High School after the Serrano Indians. 184 00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:05,680 I went there sophomore through through senior year. 185 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:08,760 Always, like I said, always wanted to be in law enforcement. 186 00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:12,960 Thought I want to be, you know? David Duchovny had X-Files. 187 00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:14,720 Hold on, look, I'll show you this. 188 00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:21,360 Look at this. Yeah, Everyone said when I was 189 00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:23,560 younger, they always said I looked like David Duchovny. 190 00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:27,280 So I wanted to be an FBI agent or some sort of federal agent 191 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:30,360 like my whole life. And so I got that accounting 192 00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:33,280 degree and that's and I went to the first agency that was going 193 00:08:33,280 --> 00:08:36,880 to take me. I was probably 22 or just turned 194 00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:42,120 22 when I started the process, just turned 23 when I went off 195 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:44,560 the Flexi. So for people that know, almost 196 00:08:44,560 --> 00:08:47,840 every agency goes to the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center 197 00:08:47,840 --> 00:08:52,160 in Georgia, except for the FBI and the DEA, which which go to 198 00:08:52,520 --> 00:08:57,000 Quantico and then the Secret Service has half their school in 199 00:08:57,240 --> 00:09:01,240 in at Flexi and then half of it goes to their place in Maryland. 200 00:09:02,560 --> 00:09:04,240 And then the Border Patrol goes to Artesia. 201 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:06,440 What's that? Our Border Patrol goes out to 202 00:09:06,440 --> 00:09:08,960 Artesia after they're done. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 203 00:09:09,120 --> 00:09:10,400 Did you guys have follow on training too? 204 00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:12,280 Or there's more flexi training centers now. 205 00:09:12,280 --> 00:09:14,920 So Artesia's bigger than it was before, and now there's one I 206 00:09:14,920 --> 00:09:17,600 think in South Carolina that used as well. 207 00:09:18,480 --> 00:09:23,000 So yeah, so I went there. I had just turned 23, had six 208 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:29,600 weeks from turning 23, went to Flexi, graduated, got my badge 209 00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:32,320 and my gun, and was hot to trot ready. 210 00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:34,280 To go save the world. That's right. 211 00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:38,080 And everyone at FLETI told me I wasn't going to last in the IRS. 212 00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:40,840 They they told me I was going to switch agencies because I was 213 00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:44,320 so, so pro law enforcement. So wanted to be. 214 00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:46,440 I wanted to actually get bad guys and they were saying no, 215 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:48,600 no, no, this is this is a white collar. 216 00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:50,480 You're never going to make it. You never. 217 00:09:50,680 --> 00:09:53,240 IRS is like a retirement gig for some people, isn't it? 218 00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:58,680 Yes, a lot of a lot of a lot of Cpas, a lot of accountants 219 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:00,760 because you have to have 12 units of accounting because they 220 00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:04,400 can't teach you the accounting. So you, you get a lot of, you 221 00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:08,080 know, nerds and people that aren't typical law enforcement 222 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:11,080 oriented people that, that go into that job. 223 00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:13,240 I'm. So glad that you called them 224 00:10:13,240 --> 00:10:16,520 nerds because that was my ongoing joke with people in the 225 00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:18,880 FBI. The FBI famous for hiring Cpas, 226 00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:22,880 lawyers and and now they do like linguists and cyber people. 227 00:10:22,880 --> 00:10:25,760 But man, there's a lot of nerds and I don't know why they think 228 00:10:25,760 --> 00:10:29,280 that's such a great it. It maybe that mindset, sort of 229 00:10:29,280 --> 00:10:31,920 analytical mindset helps you to to organize federal cases, which 230 00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:33,720 are very different than traditional law enforcement. 231 00:10:34,360 --> 00:10:37,640 How did you fit in that 23? To analyze bank records, you 232 00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:39,640 want to look at certain things, you want to look at cyber 233 00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:42,000 records that you you have to have that education. 234 00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:45,680 So either the FBI has to give it to you or the IRS has to give it 235 00:10:45,680 --> 00:10:48,400 to you, or you have to come in already with that knowledge and 236 00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:50,760 you're already at training like 20. 237 00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:54,320 We were there 22 1/2 weeks. I was there from July to do 238 00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:57,760 Christmas and we came back on Christmas and I didn't leave. 239 00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:00,560 I was there the whole time. They didn't allow us to really 240 00:11:00,560 --> 00:11:04,240 leave at that juncture in time. So you know, you're there, 241 00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:05,760 you're living there. I had to file taxes from 242 00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:08,120 Georgia. It's crazy. 243 00:11:10,040 --> 00:11:11,600 I like, I like that's where you went with it. 244 00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:12,720 You're like, yeah, I had to file taxes. 245 00:11:12,720 --> 00:11:16,160 That seems like a very IRS kind of thing to to hone in on. 246 00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:20,080 You you you appreciate that more when you live in Texas and 247 00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:21,720 Florida. You don't have to file any state 248 00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:23,200 taxes. But when I was living in 249 00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:26,200 California, I had to file 2 tax returns, one for California, one 250 00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:29,080 for Georgia, which I thought was ridiculous. 251 00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:31,760 But I I think maybe it saved me a little money because Georgia 252 00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:33,400 is a little bit cheaper on income tax. 253 00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:36,000 I remember, I remember having I did a split thing when I joined 254 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:38,480 the military and I was still like I was 1/2 year resident in 255 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:40,760 California and they came for every penny of it as they always 256 00:11:40,760 --> 00:11:42,800 do. And then a half year resident of 257 00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:43,680 Texas. That was kind of weird. 258 00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:46,760 OK, so your first assignment when it took you back to where 259 00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:47,440 to? To LA? 260 00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:50,880 Los Angeles. OK, so if you, if you were from 261 00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:54,520 DC, New York or Los Angeles, you pretty much went back to one of 262 00:11:54,520 --> 00:11:56,800 those places 'cause that's where they needed most people. 263 00:11:57,840 --> 00:12:00,360 So I was from Los Angeles and processed out of Los Angeles. 264 00:12:00,360 --> 00:12:03,440 So I came back to Los Angeles. I did about a third of my class. 265 00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:10,360 And what kind of cases? So my first case, first cases, I 266 00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:13,040 had a couple tax cases that were really interesting. 267 00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:17,320 They were more like very illegal tax cases, which is, you know, 268 00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:19,880 illegal tax cases, people that are doing other crimes and 269 00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:21,840 you're prosecuting them for tax evasion. 270 00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:25,080 But I was also on a healthcare fraud task force with the FBI, 271 00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:27,000 which was a miserable experience. 272 00:12:27,640 --> 00:12:33,160 And and also, it wasn't, it wasn't the FBI, it wasn't the, 273 00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:35,520 well, I, I can go into a whole story about that. 274 00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:37,480 We're going to get there. Yeah, we have to get there. 275 00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:39,560 That's that's required reading for this class, so. 276 00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:43,640 But healthcare was terrible. This is one of the reasons I can 277 00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:45,560 get to later. I almost went to the FBI later 278 00:12:45,560 --> 00:12:48,720 in my career, but one of the reasons why I didn't was because 279 00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:52,400 I did not want to get stuck on a healthcare task force because 280 00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:55,480 that's just a miserable job. And then I was also on a public 281 00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:57,920 corruption. And if you think healthcare 282 00:12:57,920 --> 00:13:02,920 fraud is bad, public corruption is the worst thing to 283 00:13:02,920 --> 00:13:05,680 investigate is terrible, terrible. 284 00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:08,960 It's it's very difficult. You're talking about like de 285 00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:12,400 minimis amounts of money and everyone is a sleazeball. 286 00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:16,640 It it's just, it was not not, that's not, and that's not what 287 00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:18,840 I joined. Like I wanted to work like 288 00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:23,280 actual criminals. So my first big case was a group 289 00:13:23,280 --> 00:13:26,120 of psychics in Southern California that lived in the 290 00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:27,920 beach. And did you say psychics? 291 00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:30,680 Sidekicks did. They were. 292 00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:33,280 Getting a little bit of feedback, but did they know you 293 00:13:33,280 --> 00:13:36,560 were coming? That was the joke Jay Leno made. 294 00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:42,480 It has to be right. It's so on the surface you're 295 00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:44,600 investigating what, what was the fraud or what was the the crime 296 00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:47,720 that they're engaged in. Well, what they would do is they 297 00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:51,000 they just read people very, very well and convinced them that 298 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:53,880 they were. And I would say 90% of these 299 00:13:53,880 --> 00:13:58,720 people, 95% of these people, maybe 99% of people were people 300 00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:00,600 had just broken up out of a relationship. 301 00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:02,960 And so they were vulnerable. And then they tell them, well, 302 00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:05,920 you have an evil spirit or if you're Catholic, you need to 303 00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:11,920 have holy water from Italy or, you know, something that that 304 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:14,480 appealed to that person. And then they would get them to 305 00:14:14,480 --> 00:14:16,080 write them big checks for this stuff. 306 00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:20,520 And that I charged them with fraud, mail fraud, but also 307 00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:23,520 charged them with tax evasion. The, the mail fraud fell through 308 00:14:23,520 --> 00:14:26,040 because the prosecutors were like, well, these people sort of 309 00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:28,640 people are going to think they deserve what they get. 310 00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:34,760 So, so we wound up getting them on tax evasion and it made all 311 00:14:34,760 --> 00:14:38,480 the news at that time. And, and my SAC was very happy 312 00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:42,040 because he got appear on the news and it made it made The 313 00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:44,360 Tonight Show. Jay Leno made the same joke that 314 00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:49,280 you made. The Manhattan Beach PD must have 315 00:14:49,280 --> 00:14:52,200 leaked that we were going to arrest them because the media 316 00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:56,280 was there at, you know, 6:30 in the morning waiting for us. 317 00:14:56,320 --> 00:14:58,200 So it made the front page of the papers. 318 00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:02,560 And yeah, the SAC was super happy that day. 319 00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:06,400 That was my first big case. Let's talk about the, the 320 00:15:06,840 --> 00:15:08,800 management structure within the IRS. 321 00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:11,120 I, I don't have a lot of familiar, the only IRS agents I 322 00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:12,840 ever saw were on some CI cases we did. 323 00:15:12,840 --> 00:15:14,720 So I didn't, I didn't do a ton of work with them. 324 00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:19,240 What is the culture like and what is the culture going up 325 00:15:19,240 --> 00:15:22,240 into the the Senior Executive Service and is it as despised 326 00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:27,240 maybe as some of the FBI was? I would say no. 327 00:15:27,320 --> 00:15:30,120 So it also depends a little bit on the field office. 328 00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:33,640 So your bigger field offices you have, you know, obviously more 329 00:15:33,680 --> 00:15:36,360 we, we call them groups, IRS calls them groups as opposed to 330 00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:38,840 squats. But it's, it's very similar 331 00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:41,400 concept. You have a group of eight to 12 332 00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:43,080 agents. You have a supervisory special 333 00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:46,400 agent that's over them. Then you have an A SAC that's 334 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:50,840 over, you know, several groups. Then you have an SAC that's in 335 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:52,320 charge of the entire field office. 336 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:56,600 The field offices have have gone down in time, so they 337 00:15:56,680 --> 00:15:59,440 consolidated a few of them. But like Los Angeles would cover 338 00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:02,360 like LA County, San Bernardino County, Riverside County, pretty 339 00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:07,160 pretty big, different big area. New York might only cover, you 340 00:16:07,160 --> 00:16:10,240 know, the New York bureau's, borough's or whatever you call 341 00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:14,760 them. So and then some field offices 342 00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:17,800 would have SES Sacs, right, SA CS. 343 00:16:17,800 --> 00:16:21,760 So like Chicago, I think Miami or New York, they would have SES 344 00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:24,960 service. And then you have you have 345 00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:27,840 analysts and you have. So these are agents. 346 00:16:27,840 --> 00:16:29,800 When I say analysts, these are agents that are basically 347 00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:32,400 working as four teens, but they're in charge of programs. 348 00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:33,960 So we call them program managers. 349 00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:37,800 That was my last position when I left, I was a program manager. 350 00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:41,240 Got it. So then so those are 14, you 351 00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:43,600 also have 15. So you have directors and 352 00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:46,160 assistant directors and all sorts of management that work 353 00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:49,480 out of DC. And then you would have like our 354 00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:52,440 or instead of a director at the top, we would, ours was the 355 00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:54,720 chief. So we had a chief and the 356 00:16:54,720 --> 00:16:56,160 assistant chief. So those would be like the 357 00:16:56,160 --> 00:17:00,160 equivalent of the FBI director. Various. 358 00:17:01,280 --> 00:17:03,280 I mean, sort of like the FBI, you have different divisions 359 00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:07,119 within, within CI that does different things, but they don't 360 00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:11,599 really affect the field so much as as they do with the FBI, like 361 00:17:11,599 --> 00:17:14,960 cyber division and and the FBI is very involved with cyber. 362 00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:18,079 And the FBI was like the, the divisions in the IRS criminal 363 00:17:18,079 --> 00:17:22,440 investigation don't really affect like your, your programs 364 00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:25,720 so much on the on the agent level as much like you just like 365 00:17:25,720 --> 00:17:27,839 no one knows, like you should have know that there's an 366 00:17:27,839 --> 00:17:30,200 undercover process, but you don't really know like what 367 00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:32,960 section that comes out of in the IRS, right. 368 00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:36,240 So, you know, it's more vague and nebulous because it's not as 369 00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:39,520 big as the FBI and. And that was my next question 370 00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:42,080 about size. SO we've been hearing a lot 371 00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:44,920 about these numbers. The Congress is screaming about 372 00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:47,880 it, whatever is 87,000. I feel like they have no idea 373 00:17:47,880 --> 00:17:49,840 what they're talking about, knowing that people 374 00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:52,240 misunderstand words on a regular basis, stuff like that. 375 00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:54,560 If you talk about kind of the size of the agency, the number 376 00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:57,920 of actual 1811, the, the, the special agent positions and then 377 00:17:57,920 --> 00:18:00,600 maybe the size of the support. And so people can kind of get a 378 00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:03,040 concept of what this 87,000 BS number looks like. 379 00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:07,760 Investigation is teeny compared to the regular IRS. 380 00:18:08,120 --> 00:18:12,680 So at our peak, I think virus criminal investigation was 3300 381 00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:16,360 people, 3300 agents. That's all the, that's all 18 382 00:18:16,360 --> 00:18:18,600 elevens care about, right? They, they care about how many 383 00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:21,920 agents there are. So I don't know how much support 384 00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:24,200 staffed it is, but we had 3300 agents. 385 00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:27,720 I think we got down to 2400. That's why they're trying to 386 00:18:27,720 --> 00:18:30,200 hire like gangbusters because they're they're basically 387 00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:33,920 running out of people that I think at one point in time they 388 00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:38,080 told me 40% of virus criminal investigation, the 18 Elevens 389 00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:40,760 were eligible to retire and relieving. 390 00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:50,440 So now they're hiring like 300 agency that would make IRS 391 00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:53,920 criminal investigation like the third or fourth largest agency. 392 00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:58,360 So you're the FBIDEA. And then I think IRS and Secret 393 00:18:58,360 --> 00:19:02,760 Service ran neck and neck in size support staff. 394 00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:08,280 There's, there's probably not even a 10th of support staff 395 00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:12,320 compared to agents. So for each group we had like 396 00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:16,200 maybe one analyst and maybe a secretary and, and of course 397 00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:18,440 they changed the names over the years, but there's, there's not 398 00:19:18,440 --> 00:19:21,880 that many, there's not that many support staff at all. 399 00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:27,120 We do have our own labs. So we have our own forensic 400 00:19:27,120 --> 00:19:30,320 labs. We have handwriting analysis, we 401 00:19:30,320 --> 00:19:32,840 have computer analysis. We have those kinds of people. 402 00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:35,440 But a lot of those are run by 18 elevens. 403 00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:39,560 So they actually pull 18 elevens to do some of these things or 404 00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:42,160 run these things or, or be in charge of these things. 405 00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:45,600 So 18 elevens was the biggest, the biggest number. 406 00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:49,800 That that dramatically changes the character of an agency. 407 00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:51,720 And I think that's what people don't understand about why the 408 00:19:52,120 --> 00:19:54,320 Bureau has gotten so sideways compared to some of the other 409 00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:57,600 federal law enforcement. But what is the what are the 410 00:19:57,600 --> 00:20:00,440 sexy cases? So if you're as an example, if 411 00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:03,720 you're in the FBI and you get assigned CI counterintelligence, 412 00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:05,280 which is not criminal investigations like you were 413 00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:07,320 just saying, if you get counterintelligence out of the 414 00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:10,040 Academy. I had people tell me, well, my 415 00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:12,400 career is over and my life is going to be boring forever. 416 00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:14,560 Nobody wants that. But if you got drugs and gangs, 417 00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:16,800 like that was considered to be sort of the sexy, fun thing that 418 00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:19,760 you think of as being law enforcement, where do IRS people 419 00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:22,080 coming out of the Academy go? Like that's where I either want 420 00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:23,840 to be or that's what I'm excited to get assigned to. 421 00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:26,880 I wanted to do drugs really, really badly. 422 00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:29,600 Yeah. So we have people assigned to 423 00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:34,040 Haida and OSA Diff and they all, that's all they do is drugs and 424 00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:35,760 they do the money laundering portion of it, but they're 425 00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:38,040 basically doing a lot of the drug portion of it. 426 00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:42,000 My best case was actually a kidnapping and murder case that 427 00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:46,200 the FBI, So the FBI is like quick response team worked the 428 00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:50,680 murder, but they weren't really prepared to work the the money 429 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:53,400 laundering aspect of it and trace the ransom proceeds. 430 00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:57,240 So what had happened is these Russians in LA had kidnapped 431 00:20:57,360 --> 00:21:00,720 these wealthy people. They ransomed them off and then 432 00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:02,520 they would kill them and they enjoyed their killing too. 433 00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:05,040 Like they would brag about like how much killing they renew. 434 00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:08,800 And they drove up the bodies up to a reservoir in Fresno area, 435 00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:12,520 dump the bodies. And then they would wire the 436 00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:14,760 money around the world to the different fake names. 437 00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:17,000 And then they bring it back home and, and spend it. 438 00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:20,160 But they were, I mean, they loved, they loved their work and 439 00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:21,040 they were going to do a lot more. 440 00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:24,680 So the FBI caught them. But then someone needs to trace 441 00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:26,800 all those ransom proceeds and try to recover them. 442 00:21:27,120 --> 00:21:30,280 And so that was my my job. So I was involved in that in 443 00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:33,960 that case, and I traveled all over the world doing that, went 444 00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:38,160 to Russia, went to Greece, went to like 12 different countries. 445 00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:41,160 It was, it was fantastic. I was like, I was living the 446 00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:44,640 life, you know, I was basically doing the FBI's job, working at 447 00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:46,640 the FBI, just didn't have an FBI badge. 448 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:50,400 And how did the how did the agents on the on the Bureau side 449 00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:53,680 take what you were doing? Oh, they, they really liked it. 450 00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:56,160 I mean, because I was doing their work from, they didn't 451 00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:57,720 want to do that work. I mean, they were, they were 452 00:21:57,720 --> 00:21:59,680 the, this was the like their kidnapping squad. 453 00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:02,040 Whatever their squad does, it does like fast cases. 454 00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:03,880 Like they didn't want to be on a case for three years. 455 00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:06,440 It was a death penalty case. We were, I was on that case for 456 00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:09,120 like 4 years. It was like a long time. 457 00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:12,160 The trial itself, the first trial was like 6 months. 458 00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:18,160 Six month trial. Yes, it was the first death 459 00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:23,440 penalty case in in California since like World War 2, the 460 00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:25,040 federal federal death penalty case. 461 00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:26,760 Yeah. And what, what was the the death 462 00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:29,640 penalty chart? Was this a, was it like like a 463 00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:31,480 Rico murder? Is that where it came from? 464 00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:33,760 Or how do they how do they trace it to the federal Nexus for 465 00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:36,480 murder? It was, it was kidnapping and 466 00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:40,680 ransom that that was what made it the federal Nexus so. 467 00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:44,080 Was there, was there Interstate play there that happened and. 468 00:22:44,360 --> 00:22:47,720 All the ransom was Interstate. The kidnappings weren't really 469 00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:50,080 Interstate, but all the ransom payments went from. 470 00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:53,480 A lot of them came from foreign bank accounts into the OR either 471 00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:58,600 went to foreign bank accounts or, or, or from like foreign 472 00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:01,520 people who were paying. And they came from outside the 473 00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:03,240 US and paid to their bank accounts. 474 00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:05,520 But yeah, most of the bank accounts, like some of them were 475 00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:09,680 in Russia. Some of them were Dubai. 476 00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:12,160 Yeah. So that the FBI agents got to 477 00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:16,040 use like the FBI jet because because we were seeking the 478 00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:20,040 death penalty, nobody would allow us to land with the with 479 00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:22,840 the prisoners. Oh, so they had to use the FBI 480 00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:26,760 jet so I didn't have to go get to go on that trip. 481 00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:30,960 It always works out that way, doesn't it? 482 00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:34,120 There's the Bureau agents did, yeah. 483 00:23:34,120 --> 00:23:35,880 I'm still friends with them. So I still keep in touch with 484 00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:40,720 them. We, we it was us LAPD and the 485 00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:43,480 FBI agents, They, they left before I did. 486 00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:45,440 But we still we still keep in touch. 487 00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:49,280 What years was that? I want to say the case ended in 488 00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:52,400 2006. So I think it was 2000 through 489 00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:56,800 2006, somewhere in that range because I became a supervisor in 490 00:23:56,800 --> 00:24:00,960 Houston in 2006. That was the year my daughter 491 00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:02,280 was born. That's the only way I remember 492 00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:05,480 it because we moved to Houston 2006, had my daughter. 493 00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:08,000 So that was in the trial took place. 494 00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:11,160 I had to fly back from Houston for part of that trial. 495 00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:12,960 So that's how I remember when it ended. 496 00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:17,720 So our trip to Russia must have been like 2004, 2003, somewhere 497 00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:21,840 in that time frame. Maybe we, and I don't know if 498 00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:25,160 there is a big thing to uncover here, but was there a change 499 00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:29,160 that happened after 911 that you saw pre post with the IRS 500 00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:31,520 specifically? A lot of federal law enforcement 501 00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:33,680 did change. I'm curious if IRS was as well. 502 00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:38,280 I don't, I don't know if there's a huge change. 503 00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:41,080 We were still pretty staffed up at that point in time. 504 00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:46,560 So we had people on 9/11, we had people actually do details over. 505 00:24:47,120 --> 00:24:48,840 So we did. And at that point in time, too, 506 00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:50,600 we were also detailing over to Secret Service. 507 00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:53,920 So Secret Service did other Treasury agents for their 508 00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:56,400 details, for presidential details. 509 00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:59,360 But the biggest thing I remember is we had people actually go be 510 00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:04,680 air marshals. And then some people actually 511 00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:06,800 wound up leaving permanently to be an air Marshall, which I 512 00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:09,040 didn't understand because that is another terrible job. 513 00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:10,000 God. It's hard. 514 00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:14,680 But you know, so when we all wanted to do something like we 515 00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:17,080 wanted to do something like we wanted to be part of something 516 00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:19,080 we wanted to So people volunteer. 517 00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:20,760 Of course I'm going to volunteer be air Marshalls. 518 00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:22,600 A big deal. Like that was how we could 519 00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:24,480 serve. Like there was not a lot of ways 520 00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:26,600 to do that. One of the big difference was 521 00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:31,040 JTTF stood up and we were working on a lot of financial 522 00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:33,400 angles for various terrorism cases. 523 00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:36,160 JTTF, we started putting people on those task forces. 524 00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:40,120 Vincent changed. So the Patriot Act changed like 525 00:25:40,120 --> 00:25:44,480 financial reporting or about how the BSA, the Bank Secrecy Act, 526 00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:48,120 So what what banks do, how what suspicious activity reports that 527 00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:51,080 they're passing new laws regarding, you know, UN 528 00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:54,800 unlicensed permitters. So those those things did 529 00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:57,880 changes to give us more powers to go after people for certain 530 00:25:57,880 --> 00:25:59,720 crimes that we didn't have before. 531 00:26:00,120 --> 00:26:01,640 Well, I didn't. I don't think we saw any big 532 00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:05,000 organizational change that. Makes sense. 533 00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:07,880 Can you, can you break out kind of, and I know Bank Secrecy Act 534 00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:11,120 is a big part of what I saw in your resume and you've got a lot 535 00:26:11,120 --> 00:26:12,800 of experience investigating that sort of work. 536 00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:16,800 I don't think people understand what it means and why it exists. 537 00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:19,560 And there was some issues even when it was first passed that it 538 00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:21,400 might actually violate some 4th Amendment. 539 00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:22,800 There were some concerns about that. 540 00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:25,160 Can you kind of breakdown what the what the Bank Secrecy Act is 541 00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:27,920 and how it's actually used? Yeah, so the Bank Secrecy Act 542 00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:31,120 was first passed in 1970. It was the first anti money 543 00:26:31,120 --> 00:26:33,960 laundering bill. So originally money laundering 544 00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:36,680 was not a crime. What we had was drug dealers 545 00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:39,280 bringing all sorts of cash into the banking system. 546 00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:42,800 And so the Bank Secrecy Act established sort of a reporting 547 00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:44,720 protocols. It it established currency 548 00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:47,720 transaction reports. And so when people brought in 549 00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:50,960 more than $10,000 in cash, what you had is the bank would fill 550 00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:53,040 out a currency transaction report saying this is we got 551 00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:55,760 $10,000 from this person. There's a bunch of details they 552 00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:58,640 put on this wall. So after that happened, you can 553 00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:03,240 imagine what the drug dealers did they started doing with we 554 00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:06,720 call smurfing now, which is they just go to different banks and 555 00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:10,560 deposit less than $10,000. So eventually the Bank Secrecy 556 00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:13,880 Act has been amended throughout the years, including pretty 557 00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:18,920 recently to sort of evolve different reporting standards. 558 00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:20,560 So they, it made structuring a crime. 559 00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:24,240 So if you, if you breakdown more than $10,000 in cash and deposit 560 00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:27,000 into the bank intentionally, that's actually a crime. 561 00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:31,800 I prosecuted those cases, but it also did something called a 562 00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:35,760 suspicious activity report. So if the bank decides that what 563 00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:39,400 you're doing is suspicious, it has to, it has to, it doesn't 564 00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:42,040 have any choice. It has to report that to the 565 00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:46,120 federal government. And that used to be the IRS, but 566 00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:48,760 that was another thing. After 911, Vincent actually took 567 00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:54,040 over that power and became sort of the Regulatory agency, I 568 00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:56,800 think it was after 911. So the reports used to go to the 569 00:27:56,800 --> 00:28:00,240 IRS center. Now they go to Vincent, but the 570 00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:02,640 banks are required to report anything suspicious. 571 00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:07,160 And of course, over the years it's sort of gotten more to the 572 00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:08,400 point where everything's suspicious. 573 00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:12,400 And now you see those reports like, oh, did they put down Mega 574 00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:15,240 or they put down J6 or did they put down whatever? 575 00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:18,240 Or, you know, here's some merchant codes that are 576 00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:22,720 suspicious or you know, so there are different things that people 577 00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:25,560 consider suspicious, but the bank is under a lot of 578 00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:27,880 regulatory pressure to report stuff. 579 00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:30,640 It's pretty much anything suspicious at this at this point 580 00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:33,960 in time. So you're and these suspicious 581 00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:35,600 activity reports come with bank records. 582 00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:40,000 So all an agent has to do is call the bank and say, Hey, I 583 00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:42,920 want all the records related to the suspicious activity report. 584 00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:45,160 I don't, you don't need a subpoena, you don't need 585 00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:46,360 warrant, you don't need anything. 586 00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:50,920 You just get all that data. And now, now with all the 587 00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:55,880 powerful databases, a lot of it is just being, you know, sucked 588 00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:58,160 into these giant databases. Like we don't have to call the 589 00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:01,040 bank because they're attaching all these, all these things to 590 00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:03,040 it. And it used to be like you had 591 00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:06,560 to actually, you had a database that had like is it was more 592 00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:10,120 like D base right where you, you would see like the information, 593 00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:12,000 but you didn't have the attachments that were harder to 594 00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:14,840 get. Well, now modern databases make 595 00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:18,000 all that possible. You can suck it in, you can then 596 00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:22,000 it digests it and then it it spits it out into a format. 597 00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:24,760 Now with AI could even summarize it for you and tell you like 598 00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:27,560 what The thing is. So now you can imagine that 599 00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:32,560 they're just the government can mine way more data, way faster 600 00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:34,640 do. You have concerns about that? 601 00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:37,520 I'm sorry. Do you have concerns about that 602 00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:42,040 as a citizen now? I do, I do, I, I sort of having 603 00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:44,920 concern as an agent like this is just way too much. 604 00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:47,400 It was, it's, it's good for you as an agent because you're 605 00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:52,080 investigating crime and and you always have good intentions, 606 00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:53,880 right? But the fact of the matter is 607 00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:57,200 that after J6, it sort of woke me up to like, hey, now they're 608 00:29:57,200 --> 00:29:59,840 just saying like anything suspicious and they can just 609 00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:03,960 search this data for anything they want whenever you want. 610 00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:07,080 So if they decide that something's a crime, but you can 611 00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:09,520 just search it. And there's not a lot of 612 00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:12,920 accountability over what's being searched as much anymore, it 613 00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:15,120 seems less accountability than before. 614 00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:19,920 After something is, you know, leaked or something, maybe they 615 00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:22,440 investigate it then. But it's a lot harder to keep 616 00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:26,600 tabs on what is being searched because you can search so 617 00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:28,320 generically and get the same results. 618 00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:31,440 Whereas before you, you really have to search much more 619 00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:34,440 specifically. Like if I wanted to search for, 620 00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:37,520 you know, some celebrity, I wanted to search for Kryo 621 00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:40,280 Serafin. Like before I have to search for 622 00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:42,120 Kryo Serafin. Like I'd have to be pretty 623 00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:44,520 specific and, and that might flag something. 624 00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:49,640 Well, now maybe I can search your county and I can get 625 00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:52,080 everything in your county. And I'm sure that might come up 626 00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:55,240 with 10,000 hits, but I just have to browse down till I find 627 00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:57,760 your name, right? Which is pretty easily because 628 00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:00,520 you can just sort it by name, right, sorted by. 629 00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:04,160 So it's pretty easy to find and that won't raise any flags at 630 00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:05,680 all. In fact, that's encouraged. 631 00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:10,440 That's encouraged by the IRS. Yeah, let's, let's break into 632 00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:12,000 that just a little bit. I, I had never even thought of 633 00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:13,400 it. So one of the and, and for 634 00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:16,000 people's awareness, almost all these searches are catalogued. 635 00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:17,200 I have to assume they are in the IRS. 636 00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:19,400 They certainly are at the FBI. You type in something into the, 637 00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:23,280 into the various databases. They know that your login is 638 00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:26,440 attributed to that search and those parameters, however 639 00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:28,120 specific it was. So if you're looking for your 640 00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:31,240 ex-girlfriend or you want to find out how an ex-wife is doing 641 00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:34,080 or you know your wife's ex-husband or any of these 642 00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:36,040 things, they can come back and find you. 643 00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:38,200 They won't find it right away. But if there's an allegation 644 00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:40,840 that something is gone sideways, I know we, you probably know 645 00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:42,800 people too. They get in trouble all the time 646 00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:45,880 for personal searches. Some people are using it to, to 647 00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:49,280 vet their dates on, you know, like matchmaker apps and stuff 648 00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:50,800 like this. So this stuff happens. 649 00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:53,600 But if you're talking about, they can literally search areas 650 00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:56,200 and it's so well defined that they can Scroll down to a name. 651 00:31:56,680 --> 00:31:58,960 They're essentially laundering their search through something 652 00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:01,880 that is normal or, you know, it disappears into the regular 653 00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:03,800 traffic of their job. Right. 654 00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:06,640 And I'm not sure like what? So it used to be that they would 655 00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:10,760 have very, very Clear History. But when, when Palantir first 656 00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:15,480 introduced their database to us, I asked them, so are you 657 00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:19,280 recording our search history? Like how who's keeping tabs on 658 00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:21,000 this? There was no search history, 659 00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:23,320 none. Now I presume that this probably 660 00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:26,280 changed now because they probably have wised up because 661 00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:29,680 I, I actually as a supervisor actually had one of my employees 662 00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:34,360 run a search on his ex-wife. I wanted to kill him like that 663 00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:39,040 is like, that is like textbook example within their training of 664 00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:41,480 what not to do. I wanted to kill them so bad. 665 00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:44,400 But it's right, right. But at least then with the 666 00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:47,120 systems the way they were, they had very specific audit logs. 667 00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:50,840 They could go back, but originally all these powerful 668 00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:52,920 databases came in, they didn't have audit logs. 669 00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:55,560 And now I presume that they do, because now they can see that 670 00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:57,760 the contractors are searching the stuff and putting this stuff 671 00:32:57,760 --> 00:32:59,920 out. But you're right, you could, you 672 00:32:59,920 --> 00:33:02,160 can just do a search. So generally, and, and that's 673 00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:06,160 sort of searching was prohibited before, like I couldn't go into 674 00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:09,280 just the tax systems and just browse tax data. 675 00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:12,320 Like that was not allowed. You had to fill out a form. 676 00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:16,760 You had to ask, say what case it was related to and someone had 677 00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:20,600 to pull it for you. Most agents did not have direct 678 00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:24,080 access to tax data. You just weren't allowed to have 679 00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:26,480 it. I was one of the rare ones that 680 00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:29,240 did, but most agents in most field offices not allowed to 681 00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:30,600 have it. So you would have to have a 682 00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:32,640 justification and have to be pretty specific. 683 00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:35,680 You couldn't browse it. Now with Palantir, you can 684 00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:38,960 browse every single person in the United States and they 685 00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:41,640 encourage it. They will actually tell us, hey, 686 00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:44,920 I keep saying us like I'm still there. 687 00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:47,000 It's hard. I understand you got the 688 00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:50,640 retirement. Actually say to us, hey, like we 689 00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:55,440 need a tax case in a particular county or a particular city and 690 00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:58,520 because we haven't had one in that particular area, we need 691 00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:01,400 the press. And they would say, just just go 692 00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:04,240 through the system, type in that zip code and pull down everybody 693 00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:07,600 and, and start doing analysis. So it's sort of expected. 694 00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:10,639 And of course, if you're doing that and I'm looking, and if I'm 695 00:34:11,199 --> 00:34:14,760 in Texas and I'm looking for Kyle Seraphin, like I, it would 696 00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:18,400 be pretty easy to find you without having a direct tie to 697 00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:20,800 you. And it doesn't tell you what you 698 00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:22,480 see. It just tells you what you 699 00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:24,840 search and you have these results and you can you can 700 00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:27,280 download like I was, I was joking. 701 00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:31,239 Hey, I could download every single person's name from this 702 00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:34,400 database and take it with me and then do identity theft for when 703 00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:36,639 I retire. And no one would know any better 704 00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:41,760 because they they these powerful databases is just so easy to to 705 00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:45,719 obscure your searches Now, I imagine like if they're really 706 00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:49,920 searching for you, like someone says, OK, I leak Kyle Seraphin's 707 00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:54,040 information to the media. And then, you know, some Tigda 708 00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:57,320 who investigates the IRS goes in and looks at like my search 709 00:34:57,320 --> 00:34:59,720 history. They could probably make a case, 710 00:34:59,720 --> 00:35:03,440 say he searched on this day and time like and, and maybe do an 711 00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:05,360 investigation that way. But it wouldn't do any flag. 712 00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:07,000 Like it wouldn't come up with immediate flag because it 713 00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:10,320 wouldn't be suspicious at first. It would only be maybe after 714 00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:13,880 after second guessing and then doing an investigation and 715 00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:16,080 trying to put that together. But you know how that goes. 716 00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:18,920 Like my defense is going to be no, I was looking for cases. 717 00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:20,480 I didn't look. I was just looking for Kyle 718 00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:22,040 Seraphin. They would have to do more. 719 00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:22,920 They would have to do a lot more. 720 00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:25,600 Or they'd have to get you to admit it, which sometimes people 721 00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:28,040 do, strangely enough, you just set them down. 722 00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:31,120 That's how we made our living, right, Is everyone wants to talk 723 00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:32,560 to us? Yeah, that's what I tell you. 724 00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:34,160 Well, don't talk like you're stupid. 725 00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:38,320 Like, even when I was investigated, I, I talked to an 726 00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:39,640 attorney first. I was never going to talk to 727 00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:42,120 them, like, ever. Like, that's stupid because you 728 00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:44,120 say stupid stuff. Like, even if you know better, 729 00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:46,400 you say stupid stuff. Yep. 730 00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:49,720 It's universal. And I always tell people, I say 731 00:35:49,720 --> 00:35:53,600 don't feel bad for talking even though you know better because 732 00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:56,400 everybody does it. There's this human instinct, 733 00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:58,040 especially people that think that they didn't do something 734 00:35:58,040 --> 00:35:59,440 wrong and they end up getting caught in it. 735 00:35:59,720 --> 00:36:01,520 And the people that do wrong are even weirder. 736 00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:02,960 They just tell you things for no reason. 737 00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:06,120 I I was telling a story one time about this guy I went to go see. 738 00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:08,160 He was impersonating a federal agent online. 739 00:36:08,720 --> 00:36:12,040 He was indicating that he ran a human program out of colleges 740 00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:14,320 and he was doing it through his eBay account. 741 00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:16,480 So he's weird. I mean, he's just not smart. 742 00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:18,560 And so I went there to go talk to him about that, to say, hey, 743 00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:20,720 man, are you invest, you know, are you representing yourself as 744 00:36:20,720 --> 00:36:23,600 a, you know, member of the US government recruiting people for 745 00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:26,040 human? And he goes like, no, I said, 746 00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:30,440 have you, if people had the impression that you were a 747 00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:32,720 federal agent, would you try to dissuade them of that? 748 00:36:32,720 --> 00:36:37,440 And he's like, no, OK, fine. I I I don't really care. 749 00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:39,360 I just wanted him to stop. But while I get there, the first 750 00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:40,800 thing we do, we sit down. Hey, can I talk to you for a few 751 00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:41,160 minutes? Yeah. 752 00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:43,320 Come on inside. He reaches over across me, by 753 00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:46,040 the way, he literally reaches across almost my lap and unplugs 754 00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:51,160 his router. And I'm like, I go, hey, what 755 00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:52,960 was that about? And he was like, I just thought 756 00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:56,880 you were here about my Internet history, buddy. 757 00:36:56,880 --> 00:37:00,920 I wasn't, but I got some more questions for you after we're 758 00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:03,880 done. It's like, it's like the the 759 00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:06,000 really guilty weirdos do that. But even the people that know 760 00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:07,680 they didn't do anything wrong, they just want to straighten it 761 00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:10,040 out. And there's a great comedian who 762 00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:11,520 just says, yeah, you're going to try to straighten it out. 763 00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:12,440 You're going to talk without a lawyer. 764 00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:14,400 You're going to do 20 to life because I don't even know what 765 00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:16,160 the case is. They're going to get you because 766 00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:17,560 you're going to blow it. And everybody talks. 767 00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:19,920 So you are saying it. I say it. 768 00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:21,680 It's a great statement to the audience. 769 00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:24,440 Don't talk to federal investigators without getting 770 00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:28,480 somebody who is disinterested. That's what the attorney brings. 771 00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:29,720 They're just not. They're not you. 772 00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:32,640 They don't care as much and. That's exactly what they're 773 00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:35,520 going to think with the more level head and and there's lots 774 00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:39,840 of things that you say with your your body language and with with 775 00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:41,680 just your little things you're saying. 776 00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:44,120 And they're looking for like if they think you're guilty, 777 00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:46,000 they're looking for these little things, right. 778 00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:48,960 So, and if they don't think you're guilty, there's nothing 779 00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:51,560 that you're going to tell them like that's going to change 780 00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:53,000 anything. Like there's nothing that you 781 00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:55,920 can tell them that your attorney can't tell them tomorrow. 782 00:37:56,760 --> 00:37:59,440 So there's nothing, there's no real point in in talking to them 783 00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:02,040 because it if they're there, they probably think that you're 784 00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:05,320 guilty and you're just going to make them think it more no 785 00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:08,560 matter what you do. I had a, a fun episode. 786 00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:11,280 The ATF showed up to my house as part of my FBI harassment. 787 00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:13,720 And so they came and knocked on the door, which is an 788 00:38:13,720 --> 00:38:15,680 interesting move because I don't have a lot of love for the ATF. 789 00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:19,280 And I had a ring Cam and I'm like, who the hell is this guy? 790 00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:21,120 There's a dude at my door. I don't recognize him. 791 00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:23,840 And I knew the ATF agent in my city. 792 00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:26,200 I knew who he was. I'd met him and they had a 793 00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:28,320 guest, a new guy who showed up and he's the one who knocked on 794 00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:30,440 my door. And so he ends up calling me. 795 00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:31,960 Hammer calls me on the cell phone. 796 00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:33,640 I don't recognize the number, but I answer it for the fifth 797 00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:34,720 time. I'm like, what's going on? 798 00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:36,240 And he's like, hey, I'm with the ATF. 799 00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:38,160 And I was like, oh, cool. I was like, do you need my 800 00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:39,280 attorney's number or what do you need? 801 00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:42,000 And he and he was like, no, I just want to like straighten 802 00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:43,640 some stuff out. It's like, oh, I don't do that. 803 00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:47,120 I'm not really interested. I'll tell you what, my attorney 804 00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:48,480 will reach out to you. That's going to be really fun. 805 00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:52,040 And my buddy basically makes a living suing the ATF and working 806 00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:53,880 for different, you know, gun lobby. 807 00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:55,880 So he ends up, he sends him a thing. 808 00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:58,240 Hey, so excited to meet you. Looking forward to it. 809 00:38:58,240 --> 00:38:59,480 Submit your questions in writing. 810 00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:01,320 We'll decide whether or not we answer them, and then we'll give 811 00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:03,400 you back something in writing. The guy's like, Nah, never mind. 812 00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:07,760 That's the thing. Tell people don't tell people 813 00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:10,880 you don't want to talk. Tell people talk to my because 814 00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:14,920 that that has a different legal connotation and rules than 815 00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:15,840 telling them you don't want to talk. 816 00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:17,720 Because if you say I just want to talk, they can just keep 817 00:39:17,720 --> 00:39:19,120 badgering you, keep badgering you. 818 00:39:19,720 --> 00:39:22,920 But if you say, hey, you know, I have an attorney and I want you 819 00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:25,880 to talk to my attorney that has different legal obligations, 820 00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:28,320 they're not going to be able to keep bugging you about that 821 00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:30,960 after that you. Want to talk about what those 822 00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:36,800 what that means to the agent? Well, the the agents, you know, 823 00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:39,200 like I said, if you just keep saying I don't want to talk, 824 00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:41,600 they can say, OK, well, I just want you to tell your story and 825 00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:44,920 they can sort of keep talking to you and eventually they're going 826 00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:47,360 to convince you to talk. Whereas if you have an attorney, 827 00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:49,960 that's a different legal right now you've asserted your right 828 00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:53,120 to counsel and that has different legal rules and you 829 00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:55,760 can't undo that once you once you say that. 830 00:39:56,240 --> 00:39:59,720 So at that point in time, that shuts down any interview and it 831 00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:02,520 should. And if it doesn't, it's going to 832 00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:03,920 get thrown out. Whatever you say is going to get 833 00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:06,760 thrown out anyways. But that's why I always tell 834 00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:10,040 people, hey, like I have an attorney and I want you to talk 835 00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:12,120 to my attorney and I want to talk to my attorney and I don't 836 00:40:12,120 --> 00:40:14,200 want to answer any questions until I talk to my attorney. 837 00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:15,960 Don't say no, I don't want to talk to you. 838 00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:18,920 They'll just keep. They will keep after you. 839 00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:22,360 The other thing that it sort of tells you too is like if you 840 00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:25,000 have an attorney, it says that you're serious or you're not 841 00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:27,440 just some average person. And so the agent's going to get 842 00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:30,160 a different, a different impression of what's going on 843 00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:31,960 because they, they know that they're not going to pull 844 00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:34,560 something over on an attorney, but they are going to pull 845 00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:37,360 something over on you. They're trained to do that. 846 00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:39,080 They're trained to convince you to talk. 847 00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:41,960 I mean, that's interviewing one O 1. 848 00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:44,520 You remember that guy? I don't remember if it was in, I 849 00:40:44,520 --> 00:40:46,480 feel like it was in Georgia. That's just my instinct. 850 00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:50,040 But they were deciding whether or not he had properly invoked 851 00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:53,680 his right to an attorney. And he said, he's like, why 852 00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:55,760 don't you get me a lawyer dog, right. 853 00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:58,600 And then there was this whole, like there was a whole set of 854 00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:01,160 nationals and the, and the judge had ruled on whether or not 855 00:41:01,160 --> 00:41:03,960 somebody was entitled to a canine attorney because of the 856 00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:05,800 way that he had said it. And they were, they were making 857 00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:07,560 real like silly literal arguments about it. 858 00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:10,600 But it wasn't a positive assertion of my right to 859 00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:11,640 counsel. It was the sort of the, the, 860 00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:14,760 the, the thing he, he sort of suggested, why why don't you get 861 00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:17,120 me a lawyer dog? And then, you know, it's like, 862 00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:20,080 well, that doesn't sound like he said he needed his attorney or 863 00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:22,120 that he had an attorney and I needed to contact through that. 864 00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:24,200 He just said, what if you did that? 865 00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:26,840 And so they made it like they went down to the actual 866 00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:29,240 verbiage, which is why what you're saying is so important. 867 00:41:29,240 --> 00:41:32,280 A positive assertion. Yeah, but Even so, even in that 868 00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:35,160 situation though, they're still in court battling that issue 869 00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:36,840 out. So that's, you know, how serious 870 00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:39,360 it is, right? So if you just say no, I don't 871 00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:41,400 want to talk. And then two minutes later 872 00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:44,000 they're like, here's a form. You know, that's what they do. 873 00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:46,800 You slide a little form here. I want you to tell your story 874 00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:48,520 like your side of it. I'm just here to hear your side 875 00:41:48,520 --> 00:41:50,200 of it. Like tell me your your side. 876 00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:52,560 I want to believe you. And then slide a little form 877 00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:55,520 across the desk and they sign away their rights. 878 00:41:55,520 --> 00:41:58,400 And then now you're good to go. You can talk to him all day, but 879 00:41:58,400 --> 00:41:59,960 do you assert your right to counsel? 880 00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:02,960 You know, minimum it's going to get litigated, right? 881 00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:06,440 And it's probably not going to go well for the prosecution and 882 00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:09,640 it the attorneys, prosecutors are probably not going to to use 883 00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:11,360 that. So it's just, it's a, you want 884 00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:13,720 to make it that positive assertion whenever possible. 885 00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:15,360 Hey, I want to talk to my attorney. 886 00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:18,520 I want my attorney and I here's, you know, call my attorney and 887 00:42:18,520 --> 00:42:20,040 that's just going to change everything. 888 00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:25,000 What? It just reminded me that normal 889 00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:27,720 people, regular people, when they're talking about this 890 00:42:27,720 --> 00:42:29,760 stuff, they're trying to round off the edges, they're trying to 891 00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:31,640 smooth it, they're trying to make it comfortable. 892 00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:34,520 They're dealing with some stranger, you know, IRS agent, 893 00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:36,160 FBI agent. They want to make things like 894 00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:38,960 conversational and regular. And that person is there to hard 895 00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:42,200 to make hard edges to to to turn hard corners and to be able to 896 00:42:42,200 --> 00:42:44,440 really frame things in the way that the investigation requires 897 00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:45,920 them. So people have very different 898 00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:47,560 goals. And it's just that disconnect I 899 00:42:47,560 --> 00:42:49,920 think that most people have having if they're never been on 900 00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:52,240 the other side of the coin, they just they just don't know what's 901 00:42:52,240 --> 00:42:54,120 going on on the person that they're looking at. 902 00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:55,880 They think it's like the same thing as running into somebody 903 00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:57,680 in the supermarket and it's really not. 904 00:42:57,680 --> 00:42:59,720 They're they're hunting you. Yeah. 905 00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:02,960 And and we, when we showed up, when I showed up, I knew as much 906 00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:08,160 as possible going in. And then you would, if, if the 907 00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:10,800 conversation wasn't a confession, the best, next best 908 00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:14,240 thing was to lie because it, we wouldn't charge you with lying, 909 00:43:14,240 --> 00:43:16,760 but that would be evidence of intent. 910 00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:19,880 And so you would lead people down primrose path and you're 911 00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:22,280 always trying to get clearly defined boundaries because you 912 00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:24,120 wanted something that's very clear. 913 00:43:24,720 --> 00:43:26,880 That's a lie. You don't want something that's 914 00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:29,320 sort of ambiguous. So you're always, you know, 915 00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:30,800 letting him talk, letting him talk. 916 00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:34,560 Then you ask focus questions to sort of narrow it down and it 917 00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:36,840 and people just don't realize that's what's going on with an 918 00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:38,880 agent. But that's what we're trained to 919 00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:41,680 do. And after you've done it 920 00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:44,560 hundreds, thousands of times, you get pretty good at it and 921 00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:46,640 you get really good at reading people's body language. 922 00:43:46,640 --> 00:43:48,280 You can tell when they're uncomfortable. 923 00:43:48,720 --> 00:43:52,120 And so you just come up with different ways to to, you know, 924 00:43:52,120 --> 00:43:54,840 get what you want out of them. And that's usually for you to 925 00:43:55,720 --> 00:43:58,720 confess in some way, shape or form, whether it's a lie or 926 00:43:58,720 --> 00:44:01,560 whether it's an actual confession, which is another 927 00:44:01,560 --> 00:44:04,120 reason why I said you're not going to talk usually, usually 928 00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:06,960 not going to talk yourself out. There have been a couple cases 929 00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:10,880 where actually they did. One is actually was actually J6 930 00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:13,040 case. That you had. 931 00:44:14,200 --> 00:44:16,520 No, not that I had. I would not touch in J6 case 932 00:44:16,560 --> 00:44:18,560 ever. I didn't want to be involved in 933 00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:22,560 that. So, but in the news that they 934 00:44:22,560 --> 00:44:25,760 did somebody, they did FBI did a warrant on somebody and it 935 00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:28,000 wasn't the right person, like it wasn't the actually person in 936 00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:30,280 the photo. Oh, they did that in in Alaska. 937 00:44:30,280 --> 00:44:31,480 They kicked down that lady's door. 938 00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:32,600 Is that the one you're thinking of? 939 00:44:33,040 --> 00:44:35,360 Yeah. And she talked to them and said, 940 00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:36,880 hey, like, that's not me in the photo. 941 00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:38,560 Yeah. That's a different jacket. 942 00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:41,200 And the fact that two people are wearing a similar jacket on the 943 00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:42,840 same day, like we have different earlobes. 944 00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:44,840 We're not the same person. Like, look at her face. 945 00:44:45,040 --> 00:44:47,280 She's like, that's not me. Yeah, I remember. 946 00:44:48,160 --> 00:44:50,480 That I mean that is just insane. That's embarrassing. 947 00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:53,320 Imagine doing a SWAT raid, taking A tag team through 948 00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:57,240 somebody's door and it's the person that you thought you were 949 00:44:57,240 --> 00:44:59,800 going for, and that person is not who they're supposed to be. 950 00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:03,400 Like you blow it. Imagine explaining that to my 951 00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:07,200 SAC like that would be a bad. It's not a good office. 952 00:45:08,560 --> 00:45:10,640 There's some bad stuff there. It's, it's crazy. 953 00:45:10,680 --> 00:45:12,000 That's how crazy things have gotten. 954 00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:16,000 Like they're doing that crap. Like that's just like who did 955 00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:18,800 that investigation? Did they did they go out in 956 00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:22,120 person and see them in person? Did they do anything or they 957 00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:24,800 just showed up with the warrant? That's just the crazy thing, and 958 00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:27,360 that's the thing that's changed. Like if you want to see a single 959 00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:29,800 change in the way law enforcement has changed is that 960 00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:33,720 now people basically do the investigations from their desks. 961 00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:37,520 You know, you have to tell agents, no, you can't look at 962 00:45:37,520 --> 00:45:40,880 Google Maps and look at the house and make a description 963 00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:42,400 based on Google Maps. You actually have to go see it 964 00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:45,920 in person. Yeah, but in 1998, when I 965 00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:48,240 started, that was no question. You got your little Thomas guy. 966 00:45:48,240 --> 00:45:50,080 We had a Thomas guy. It was a big map book. 967 00:45:50,680 --> 00:45:53,480 Look at that thick right? And it had LA and Orange County 968 00:45:53,480 --> 00:45:56,560 and you had a separate one for Riverside in San Bernardino 969 00:45:56,560 --> 00:45:58,160 County. And it had all the streets and 970 00:45:58,160 --> 00:46:00,040 you would look them up and on the warrants, you'd actually say 971 00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:02,680 what page it was on. And the Thomas guy. 972 00:46:02,680 --> 00:46:05,760 And you would go out there and you would take photos and you'd 973 00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:08,280 go out there multiple days and you would, you would see 974 00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:09,680 patterns of life and you do stuff. 975 00:46:09,680 --> 00:46:14,040 Now it's like all online. You sit at your desk, you browse 976 00:46:14,040 --> 00:46:17,920 databases, you look at Google Maps, you, you write a warrant. 977 00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:20,760 You've never seen the place, you've never seen the person in 978 00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:23,280 in real life. And that's the and that's the 979 00:46:23,280 --> 00:46:27,320 biggest change I've seen. That is a fundamental 980 00:46:27,320 --> 00:46:29,600 distinction that some of my buddies and I have talked about. 981 00:46:29,600 --> 00:46:31,560 In fact, one of my buddies, in fact, the one who who is 982 00:46:31,560 --> 00:46:34,120 familiar with your old Twitter account, we were, we were 983 00:46:34,120 --> 00:46:36,040 discussing this joke because I used to do physical 984 00:46:36,040 --> 00:46:36,920 surveillance. That was my gig. 985 00:46:36,920 --> 00:46:38,040 Like I would literally be the guy. 986 00:46:38,040 --> 00:46:39,800 I didn't have a Thomas guy, we had Agps. 987 00:46:39,800 --> 00:46:42,040 But I'd sit out there and I'd take pictures of the house and 988 00:46:42,040 --> 00:46:44,400 I'd see where it was and I watched how they walked and I 989 00:46:44,400 --> 00:46:46,160 watched how they talked and who they interacted with. 990 00:46:46,160 --> 00:46:49,200 The whole pattern of life. And also you're looking for, you 991 00:46:49,200 --> 00:46:52,760 know, security threats, dogs, are there children, you know, 992 00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:54,800 things that matter when you're going to go serve a warrant. 993 00:46:55,480 --> 00:46:58,920 And he's like, if you've never seen your subject in person in 994 00:46:58,920 --> 00:47:01,800 real life, are you really investigating that person? 995 00:47:01,920 --> 00:47:04,200 Like, is that real? And. 996 00:47:05,160 --> 00:47:08,080 It's crazy. And and there's other things 997 00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:10,080 with warrants like what time does the school bus show up? 998 00:47:10,080 --> 00:47:12,080 What time are they in the neighborhood? 999 00:47:12,440 --> 00:47:14,480 Like when does the trash truck show up? 1000 00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:17,160 So we I actually did trash runs like what? 1001 00:47:17,160 --> 00:47:19,200 I was like we did trash. Runs love trash pickups. 1002 00:47:19,640 --> 00:47:23,800 They can do this nasty trash at 4:00 AM that they put out like I 1003 00:47:23,800 --> 00:47:25,960 have. I've not even heard of an agent 1004 00:47:25,960 --> 00:47:29,240 doing that in my office, you know, in the last decade. 1005 00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:31,320 That was my favorite. It like there's nothing that 1006 00:47:31,320 --> 00:47:34,720 feels more criminal investigatory than sneaking by 1007 00:47:34,760 --> 00:47:39,960 either pretending to be part of the the trash team or even 1008 00:47:39,960 --> 00:47:43,040 better is like creeping in the dark, pulling everything, 1009 00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:45,160 throwing it in a blacked out hood that you've already taped 1010 00:47:45,160 --> 00:47:47,240 up and you've got it all set. You've lined it with black bags 1011 00:47:47,240 --> 00:47:49,520 so it doesn't get stinky. And then we would roll to like a 1012 00:47:50,160 --> 00:47:52,800 some abandoned parking lot a couple miles away and we take it 1013 00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:55,440 and we go look for gold and you'd find all kinds of weird 1014 00:47:55,440 --> 00:47:56,520 stuff in there. People throw everything away 1015 00:47:56,520 --> 00:47:59,200 like it's, it's great. It's so fun to be able to just 1016 00:47:59,200 --> 00:48:01,360 dig through it when you know that someone's doing something 1017 00:48:01,360 --> 00:48:02,440 shady and you're like. I'm. 1018 00:48:02,800 --> 00:48:04,160 Going to find it. That's what I'm doing. 1019 00:48:04,600 --> 00:48:09,080 We had switches in our cars, in our G cars that actually did all 1020 00:48:09,080 --> 00:48:12,280 the lights out and would all the lights, like the tail lights and 1021 00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:14,320 everything. So we could do these trash runs 1022 00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:17,680 and then so and then those of us had done it for a long time, had 1023 00:48:17,680 --> 00:48:20,280 learned little tricks like there would be ants and stuff and bugs 1024 00:48:20,280 --> 00:48:22,000 and these things. So you would put it all in the 1025 00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:25,640 trash bag and then spray it with RAID and then close it up and 1026 00:48:25,640 --> 00:48:28,520 then, you know, then go to the place and, and everything would 1027 00:48:28,520 --> 00:48:30,040 be dead. So we wouldn't get ants all over 1028 00:48:30,040 --> 00:48:32,560 ourselves. But yeah, I mean, that that was 1029 00:48:32,560 --> 00:48:35,040 like the good times when we were out in the field at all times of 1030 00:48:35,040 --> 00:48:38,960 day and night. Now you're just a case manager 1031 00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:41,680 like now. And I was guilty of this too, 1032 00:48:41,680 --> 00:48:44,040 because I just wanted to go home and be with my kids. 1033 00:48:44,040 --> 00:48:46,480 But like, I wouldn't do surveillance. 1034 00:48:46,480 --> 00:48:51,960 Like I would just write a a lead and make your your FBI 1035 00:48:51,960 --> 00:48:56,880 surveillance unit do it. We like doing that though. 1036 00:48:56,880 --> 00:49:00,880 That was our gig. But you know, when I started, we 1037 00:49:00,880 --> 00:49:04,440 did our own surveillance like we would be out there, you know, 1038 00:49:04,440 --> 00:49:06,400 with guys that would tell you. Yeah, OK. 1039 00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:08,800 We're we're getting on the northbound ramp on the one O 1 1040 00:49:09,880 --> 00:49:12,680 and we all get on northbound ramp and sure enough he was on 1041 00:49:12,680 --> 00:49:16,840 the southbound. Yes, the the infamous bad radio 1042 00:49:16,840 --> 00:49:18,160 call. I I would have. 1043 00:49:18,160 --> 00:49:20,240 I had this guy. He was Puerto Rican. 1044 00:49:20,600 --> 00:49:25,400 Such a nice guy, no sense of direction, which is the worst we 1045 00:49:25,400 --> 00:49:26,640 had. We had all the things you 1046 00:49:26,640 --> 00:49:28,520 couldn't, you couldn't. This isn't Thomas Guide where 1047 00:49:28,520 --> 00:49:30,840 you're flipping through a map book or a maps go and trying to 1048 00:49:30,840 --> 00:49:33,760 figure out where you are. We had GPS, we had blue force 1049 00:49:33,760 --> 00:49:36,600 tracking so every single agent could see where every single 1050 00:49:36,600 --> 00:49:39,480 other agent was on the map on a tablet, real time. 1051 00:49:39,960 --> 00:49:43,960 So that's high speed stuff. And as a team leader, which was 1052 00:49:43,960 --> 00:49:45,320 my gig because nobody else wanted to do it. 1053 00:49:45,320 --> 00:49:47,120 Not because I was the best, just nobody wanted the 1054 00:49:47,120 --> 00:49:49,280 responsibility. I had this guy sitting out on a 1055 00:49:49,280 --> 00:49:54,240 house and we were in Southeast DC and Luis that's his name. 1056 00:49:54,480 --> 00:49:58,400 Luis would go subjects getting it coming out of the house and 1057 00:49:58,400 --> 00:50:00,560 that's like game on Everyone's like OK, here we go. 1058 00:50:00,560 --> 00:50:03,280 You know, you get got your cars started, you got your coffee in 1059 00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:08,680 the thing and getting in the car reverse lights are on backing 1060 00:50:08,680 --> 00:50:11,240 out of the driveway. Given the good play by play, we 1061 00:50:11,240 --> 00:50:12,920 can all picture what's happening when it's happening. 1062 00:50:13,760 --> 00:50:17,560 OK, now heading northbound on 1st St. and I'm looking at the 1063 00:50:17,560 --> 00:50:23,600 map and I'm like 7 two, 1st Street is East West Street. 1064 00:50:26,040 --> 00:50:27,880 And then he would, and then he would pick one, he'd be like 1065 00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:33,080 heading westbound. And I go, yeah, they turn right 1066 00:50:33,080 --> 00:50:36,040 or left out of the driveway and he's like left. 1067 00:50:37,160 --> 00:50:39,800 And I'm like, OK, everyone eastbound on 1st St. eastbound 1068 00:50:39,800 --> 00:50:41,920 on 1st St. And and then he would come to me 1069 00:50:41,920 --> 00:50:43,160 afterwards and he's like, sorry, man. 1070 00:50:43,480 --> 00:50:44,880 I was like, I know that you don't know where you are. 1071 00:50:44,880 --> 00:50:46,520 I don't know why you grew up. You grew up on an island. 1072 00:50:46,520 --> 00:50:48,880 Everything must have had directions there, but he didn't 1073 00:50:48,880 --> 00:50:51,280 know how to do it. But that bad call anyway, like, 1074 00:50:51,280 --> 00:50:53,360 oh, that's part of the the game. That's part of the the law 1075 00:50:53,360 --> 00:50:55,840 enforcement game of chasing bad guys and going through their 1076 00:50:55,840 --> 00:50:58,320 trash and finding out who they are and interviewing them. 1077 00:50:58,840 --> 00:51:00,120 And a lot of that is getting outsourced now. 1078 00:51:00,120 --> 00:51:03,240 They're not, it's not personal and they're not as, I don't 1079 00:51:03,240 --> 00:51:04,920 know, I feel like they're not as good at it, but it's way more 1080 00:51:04,920 --> 00:51:07,680 dangerous for American Civil Liberties because they never see 1081 00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:09,200 another human being on the end of it, maybe. 1082 00:51:10,320 --> 00:51:14,280 Yeah, in just everything. Even the interviews are 1083 00:51:14,280 --> 00:51:16,160 outsourced. Like I always travel to my 1084 00:51:16,160 --> 00:51:18,000 interview. So if I had an interview in Las 1085 00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:20,800 Vegas, I drove to Las Vegas. If I had an interview in 1086 00:51:20,840 --> 00:51:26,080 Oklahoma, I flew to Oklahoma. Now you just do a lead. 1087 00:51:26,440 --> 00:51:29,400 You just, of course, it's FBI. So when I worked at FBI Task 1088 00:51:29,400 --> 00:51:32,200 Force, I had all the FBI resources at my disposal. 1089 00:51:32,200 --> 00:51:36,720 So I would just send FBI leads. But IRS has similar, you know, 1090 00:51:36,720 --> 00:51:39,040 things, we call them something else, but you would just fill it 1091 00:51:39,040 --> 00:51:40,840 out and have some other office do it. 1092 00:51:41,480 --> 00:51:43,320 Or is that never used to be the case? 1093 00:51:43,320 --> 00:51:47,160 We would travel, we would never let some other agent do a 1094 00:51:47,160 --> 00:51:53,520 critical interview on our cases. But now, now everyone's just 1095 00:51:53,520 --> 00:51:55,280 sort of sitting at their desk data mining. 1096 00:51:55,800 --> 00:51:58,720 And the crazy thing is, is the A Sacks and the Sacks who have 1097 00:51:58,720 --> 00:52:02,440 never used these systems because they haven't touched a case in a 1098 00:52:02,440 --> 00:52:07,160 decade or more, they're acting like these databases will simply 1099 00:52:07,640 --> 00:52:09,640 pop out a case. Like it will just come out on 1100 00:52:09,640 --> 00:52:10,560 your desk. It's done. 1101 00:52:10,560 --> 00:52:12,960 Here it is like you did it. It's there, here you. 1102 00:52:13,120 --> 00:52:14,920 Now you can close the case in 12 months. 1103 00:52:15,600 --> 00:52:19,280 Like, no, that's not how it works like that. 1104 00:52:19,400 --> 00:52:22,480 That's not how these systems work like, but that's what they 1105 00:52:22,480 --> 00:52:25,960 expect, Yeah. What is that you you mentioned 1106 00:52:25,960 --> 00:52:28,840 that you wouldn't touch AJ6 case and I appreciate that you had 1107 00:52:28,840 --> 00:52:32,120 kind of a a long 25 years of your expert witness in a various 1108 00:52:32,120 --> 00:52:34,080 different areas. You've done a couple of 1109 00:52:34,080 --> 00:52:36,640 different FBI task force if I understand correctly, is that is 1110 00:52:36,640 --> 00:52:40,440 that accurate? Three, I think healthcare fraud, 1111 00:52:40,440 --> 00:52:45,440 EUR Asian crime, which was the kidnapping and then also a cyber 1112 00:52:45,440 --> 00:52:48,560 task force, so did cyber Task force in Houston and cyber Task 1113 00:52:48,560 --> 00:52:51,600 force in Tampa, Orlando. So it's headquartered out of 1114 00:52:51,600 --> 00:52:55,320 Tampa and I sat in Orlando. So those were the the three 1115 00:52:55,320 --> 00:52:57,000 things. So I sat with the FBI for 1116 00:52:57,320 --> 00:53:00,760 probably a good portion of my career, maybe even the most of 1117 00:53:00,760 --> 00:53:04,760 it. Tell me how you saw change now 1118 00:53:04,760 --> 00:53:07,240 that they're doing the like. I feel like J6 was a just a 1119 00:53:07,280 --> 00:53:10,480 watershed moment of weirdness, but I don't have the kind of 1120 00:53:10,720 --> 00:53:12,480 longevity. I've got other people's 1121 00:53:12,480 --> 00:53:14,560 experiences, so I want to know about yours seeing that over 1122 00:53:14,560 --> 00:53:17,360 those years. When I was in LA, you know, the 1123 00:53:17,360 --> 00:53:20,280 agents were required to wear suits like they were. 1124 00:53:20,400 --> 00:53:23,280 The FBI was the most professionally dressed of all 1125 00:53:23,280 --> 00:53:25,920 the agencies except for the Secret Service when they were 1126 00:53:25,920 --> 00:53:30,400 doing details, but they were always required to wear a suit 1127 00:53:30,400 --> 00:53:32,600 in the office. They were the most professional 1128 00:53:35,400 --> 00:53:39,120 and they were probably the most prestigious. 1129 00:53:39,200 --> 00:53:40,800 Everyone wanted to be an FBI agent. 1130 00:53:40,800 --> 00:53:44,160 Just from my perspective, FBI agent was a very prestigious 1131 00:53:44,160 --> 00:53:48,640 thing. But I think overall what I've 1132 00:53:48,640 --> 00:53:50,840 seen is just agents investigating less. 1133 00:53:50,840 --> 00:53:53,520 They're more case managers. They're more willing to do 1134 00:53:53,520 --> 00:53:56,520 whatever the supervisors tell them to do because they're not 1135 00:53:56,520 --> 00:53:58,520 really investigating human beings. 1136 00:53:58,520 --> 00:54:02,760 They're just investigating, you know, file number it, it's just 1137 00:54:02,760 --> 00:54:06,320 a file number on a page. And the recruiting standards 1138 00:54:06,320 --> 00:54:10,240 have changed dramatically. Like to be an FBI agent, you had 1139 00:54:10,240 --> 00:54:13,000 to be in shape. Like, so I actually applied to 1140 00:54:13,000 --> 00:54:15,520 be an FBI at some at a point in my career when things were 1141 00:54:15,520 --> 00:54:18,520 really low. You had to be in physical shape 1142 00:54:18,600 --> 00:54:21,680 like before they would even consider you to like recommend 1143 00:54:21,680 --> 00:54:27,800 you like now I I'm like, and you had to have like some, some 1144 00:54:27,800 --> 00:54:31,280 background, like you had to have a like most of the FBI agents 1145 00:54:31,280 --> 00:54:33,760 were older. They had a lot of previous work 1146 00:54:33,760 --> 00:54:36,800 history. Like in my last office, a guy 1147 00:54:36,800 --> 00:54:39,240 had been a manager at Target. That was his last job. 1148 00:54:42,600 --> 00:54:45,120 We had a guy come through my Academy class who had three 1149 00:54:45,120 --> 00:54:46,520 years. That's the minimum work history 1150 00:54:46,520 --> 00:54:48,000 you have to have. There's has to be a minimum. 1151 00:54:48,000 --> 00:54:48,800 So that's it. Three. 1152 00:54:49,600 --> 00:54:52,440 And his three years was that he was an unarmed security type 1153 00:54:52,440 --> 00:54:56,040 person at the Detroit Zoo. He was 25 years old. 1154 00:54:57,680 --> 00:54:59,800 Which is incredibly young for an FBI agent. 1155 00:54:59,920 --> 00:55:01,560 Incredibly young. You would not. 1156 00:55:01,560 --> 00:55:03,040 That's one of the reasons why I went to the IRS. 1157 00:55:03,040 --> 00:55:06,520 They took me at 23. I mean, I started the process 1158 00:55:06,520 --> 00:55:10,120 before then. FBI was like minimum 23. 1159 00:55:10,520 --> 00:55:12,880 You had to have three years of work experience or more. 1160 00:55:13,320 --> 00:55:17,040 And so you weren't going to get hired until you were 27/28/20. 1161 00:55:17,040 --> 00:55:21,440 9:30. I'm guessing probably in in your 1162 00:55:21,680 --> 00:55:25,640 early 30s was not unusual at the Academy based on the people that 1163 00:55:25,640 --> 00:55:28,960 I worked with or people that had come out of the military and had 1164 00:55:28,960 --> 00:55:31,680 some sort of military background that were on spot teams and 1165 00:55:31,680 --> 00:55:34,680 such. But normal people, they had a 1166 00:55:34,680 --> 00:55:37,040 lot of work history and they were a lot older. 1167 00:55:38,080 --> 00:55:40,200 And now we're hiring right out of law schools, We're hiring 1168 00:55:40,200 --> 00:55:42,480 them right out of grad schools. They'll actually waive the work 1169 00:55:42,480 --> 00:55:44,000 history if you have the right grad schools. 1170 00:55:44,000 --> 00:55:47,400 So that's kind of bizarre. And my class was mostly under 1171 00:55:47,400 --> 00:55:48,560 30. I was the, I was the oldest guy 1172 00:55:48,560 --> 00:55:51,240 in my class, except for one dude who they wrote a waiver. 1173 00:55:51,240 --> 00:55:52,960 He was 49. I don't know how you could be 49 1174 00:55:52,960 --> 00:55:54,840 and enter into a new special agent role. 1175 00:55:54,840 --> 00:55:56,560 You know, that's going to screw over their retirement at some 1176 00:55:56,560 --> 00:55:58,240 point. So they've got a couple of them 1177 00:55:58,240 --> 00:56:00,120 like that. With my thing, so IRS agents, 1178 00:56:00,200 --> 00:56:05,000 they were always fighting to get the extensions from, you know, 1179 00:56:05,240 --> 00:56:10,480 from the retirement age, so 57. So in case people don't know, 1180 00:56:10,480 --> 00:56:12,800 57. So every, every 1811 has to 1181 00:56:12,800 --> 00:56:17,040 retire under 57. That's why you can't be, you 1182 00:56:17,040 --> 00:56:20,520 know, older than 37 when you start the job because you need 1183 00:56:20,520 --> 00:56:22,760 to have 20 years of law enforcement experience in order 1184 00:56:22,760 --> 00:56:26,280 to retire. So 1811 is 20 years as long as 1185 00:56:26,280 --> 00:56:31,120 you're age 50, mandatory retirement age 57 or you can 1186 00:56:31,120 --> 00:56:34,440 retire at any age like I did. I, I retired when I was 48. 1187 00:56:35,600 --> 00:56:37,840 I had 25 with 25 years of experience. 1188 00:56:38,040 --> 00:56:41,080 So you can retire after you have 25 years at any age. 1189 00:56:41,720 --> 00:56:47,160 So someone that's 49 like you can't get, I don't know how you 1190 00:56:47,280 --> 00:56:51,120 how you do that. You can't unless they came from 1191 00:56:51,120 --> 00:56:52,320 another federal agency or something. 1192 00:56:52,320 --> 00:56:54,760 I just don't see that works. Here's FBI support. 1193 00:56:57,640 --> 00:57:00,360 And so IRS agents, they always want to work past 57 because 1194 00:57:00,360 --> 00:57:03,120 they just love their job so much, which I think's insane 1195 00:57:03,120 --> 00:57:04,640 because you're working for minimum wage. 1196 00:57:04,880 --> 00:57:07,040 Like once you're retirement age, you're working for less than 1197 00:57:07,040 --> 00:57:08,400 minimum wage. Yeah, talk about that. 1198 00:57:09,480 --> 00:57:14,520 So IRS, not the IRS but the federal government is 1811. 1199 00:57:14,520 --> 00:57:18,520 You get a pension, your pensions based on a particular percentage 1200 00:57:18,520 --> 00:57:19,880 that you get every year for your work. 1201 00:57:19,880 --> 00:57:22,800 I think it's like 2% or something. 1202 00:57:22,800 --> 00:57:27,000 I don't remember what it is. 1.7 it's changed too because the new 1203 00:57:27,000 --> 00:57:29,040 people that come on pay a different amount in. 1204 00:57:29,160 --> 00:57:32,880 Mine was 1.7 so whatever. Like 1.7 for the first few 1205 00:57:32,880 --> 00:57:34,080 years. For the 20. 1206 00:57:34,520 --> 00:57:37,240 Three years and then 1% after that, yes. 1207 00:57:37,800 --> 00:57:40,760 So each year you work and that's based on that's a percentage of 1208 00:57:40,760 --> 00:57:43,560 your highest 36 months of consecutive pay. 1209 00:57:43,560 --> 00:57:46,040 So we call it the high three. It's so it's 36 months of 1210 00:57:46,040 --> 00:57:48,280 consecutive pay. So you take that percentage, 1211 00:57:48,280 --> 00:57:51,560 multiply it by the average of your high 3 and that's what your 1212 00:57:51,560 --> 00:57:54,800 pension is. And so you get that pension plus 1213 00:57:54,800 --> 00:57:58,400 you have your, your four O 1K, which is in the federal 1214 00:57:58,400 --> 00:58:00,200 government, your thrift savings program. 1215 00:58:01,280 --> 00:58:02,200 And so you're putting money in there. 1216 00:58:02,200 --> 00:58:03,960 The government, you're putting your maximum in there and the 1217 00:58:03,960 --> 00:58:07,800 government's matching, you know, the first, I think it's two or 1218 00:58:07,800 --> 00:58:12,160 three percent, 3% dollar for dollar in the last two percent, 1219 00:58:12,160 --> 00:58:16,080 $0.50 on the dollar. So, so you're getting that. 1220 00:58:16,360 --> 00:58:18,240 So then it's the difference between your pension. 1221 00:58:18,240 --> 00:58:20,760 So you, you're comparing net pay when you retire, you're looking 1222 00:58:20,760 --> 00:58:22,480 at, OK, what, what is my take home pay? 1223 00:58:22,480 --> 00:58:26,160 Because you're putting into your TSP, you're, you're paying 1224 00:58:26,160 --> 00:58:28,720 taxes, you're paying Social Security taxes, you're paying 1225 00:58:28,720 --> 00:58:30,960 all those things. And you compare that to your net 1226 00:58:30,960 --> 00:58:33,120 that you get from your pension, where you're not, you're not, 1227 00:58:33,120 --> 00:58:34,680 you're not contributing to your retirement. 1228 00:58:34,680 --> 00:58:36,600 You're not paying some of these taxes anymore. 1229 00:58:37,240 --> 00:58:38,880 So then you're looking at your net. 1230 00:58:38,880 --> 00:58:42,800 And the difference between your net and what you get for your 1231 00:58:42,800 --> 00:58:47,520 pay net is minimum wage. I mean, like for me it was like 1232 00:58:47,520 --> 00:58:50,360 $30,000 a year. So it makes almost no sense to 1233 00:58:50,360 --> 00:58:53,000 keep going. And so when you get your 1234 00:58:53,000 --> 00:58:56,400 pension, your pension goes up by the annual inflation rate. 1235 00:58:57,000 --> 00:59:01,320 So my wife, who's high three was lower than mine and had fewer 1236 00:59:01,320 --> 00:59:04,960 years, has a higher pension than me because she retired and she 1237 00:59:04,960 --> 00:59:08,600 got some crazy inflationary pension increase. 1238 00:59:09,160 --> 00:59:10,400 And I kept working because I had to. 1239 00:59:10,400 --> 00:59:13,600 I didn't have 25 years. She was older than me, so she 1240 00:59:13,600 --> 00:59:15,480 had to. She was able to retire when 1241 00:59:15,480 --> 00:59:19,360 she's 50. So then I had to kept working. 1242 00:59:19,360 --> 00:59:21,560 So my high three and my percentage was higher, but I get 1243 00:59:21,560 --> 00:59:25,000 paid less because of that percentage. 1244 00:59:25,000 --> 00:59:27,480 Because yours is based on whatever the federal GS rate 1245 00:59:27,480 --> 00:59:30,280 changes is and and hers is based on actual inflation of some 1246 00:59:30,280 --> 00:59:31,760 other kind. Different calculations, 1247 00:59:31,760 --> 00:59:34,560 different agencies. Yeah, every single person that I 1248 00:59:34,560 --> 00:59:37,000 saw worked past the number that they had to work to get a 1249 00:59:37,000 --> 00:59:39,360 retirement just basically explained to me that they didn't 1250 00:59:39,360 --> 00:59:42,120 understand how numbers worked. Yeah. 1251 00:59:42,320 --> 00:59:45,560 And I had, my wife actually joked with me that I spent more 1252 00:59:45,560 --> 00:59:48,760 time working in my retirement spreadsheets than I did working 1253 00:59:49,400 --> 00:59:51,800 standard. And I just couldn't wait. 1254 00:59:52,760 --> 00:59:55,600 And it didn't help that my wife had been retired and I was 1255 00:59:55,600 --> 00:59:58,160 watching her like, enjoy life. And I'm like, I got to go to 1256 00:59:58,160 --> 01:00:00,360 work today. But yeah. 1257 01:00:00,360 --> 01:00:01,960 So these retirement spreadsheets, they explain all 1258 01:00:01,960 --> 01:00:03,320 the numbers. And there's a couple of good 1259 01:00:03,320 --> 01:00:05,800 guys. One of them's a former FBI agent 1260 01:00:05,800 --> 01:00:07,640 that actually has a book first guide. 1261 01:00:08,320 --> 01:00:11,960 Yeah, first guy is fantastic. And anyone who's retiring has to 1262 01:00:11,960 --> 01:00:13,760 know that guy. But it's even close to you, all 1263 01:00:13,760 --> 01:00:15,640 the numbers. And then he and, and a guy named 1264 01:00:15,640 --> 01:00:19,440 Chris Barfield, he actually does the financials and and he's 1265 01:00:19,440 --> 01:00:22,400 wrote a few papers that basically like it makes sense to 1266 01:00:22,400 --> 01:00:24,520 retire as soon as you're eligible if you're going to keep 1267 01:00:24,520 --> 01:00:26,280 working. And you would be better off like 1268 01:00:26,280 --> 01:00:28,960 I'd be better off working at Home Depot. 1269 01:00:30,000 --> 01:00:31,800 Full time, then I would be continuing to work for the 1270 01:00:31,800 --> 01:00:34,760 federal government, But it's a, it's a scary thing. 1271 01:00:34,760 --> 01:00:38,760 Like when you retire, it's it's, it's a major life change and 1272 01:00:38,760 --> 01:00:41,400 it's a, you know, you're no longer an agent anymore. 1273 01:00:41,480 --> 01:00:45,120 And I think there's a, there's a part of you that that becomes 1274 01:00:45,120 --> 01:00:47,680 your identity, right. So I think for a lot of people, 1275 01:00:47,680 --> 01:00:49,880 they, that's the reason why they don't want to give it up because 1276 01:00:49,880 --> 01:00:51,800 it, you know, you're not law enforcement, you're, you're 1277 01:00:51,800 --> 01:00:54,960 changing your, who you are. And it's a big step and it's. 1278 01:00:57,160 --> 01:01:01,240 Yeah, I didn't, I didn't know that that's where we need to, we 1279 01:01:01,240 --> 01:01:02,920 need to go to, but that's where we need to go with this 1280 01:01:02,920 --> 01:01:04,720 particular thing. There's a because I think it's 1281 01:01:04,720 --> 01:01:07,720 explains a lot about why people behave the way they do and why 1282 01:01:07,720 --> 01:01:11,000 the retired agents behave the way that they do and how they 1283 01:01:11,000 --> 01:01:12,320 look at the world. You've been saying it. 1284 01:01:12,320 --> 01:01:13,560 Oh, you know, look, this is how we do it. 1285 01:01:13,560 --> 01:01:15,200 This is how, you know, when you're doing this. 1286 01:01:15,200 --> 01:01:17,240 This is how we do it all over and over because you're still 1287 01:01:17,240 --> 01:01:18,800 mentally there and, and that's fine. 1288 01:01:18,800 --> 01:01:20,400 You spent 25 years there. Why would you not? 1289 01:01:20,840 --> 01:01:22,960 That's not an indictment on you in any way. 1290 01:01:23,720 --> 01:01:26,040 There is an association with identity that you just said. 1291 01:01:26,040 --> 01:01:28,280 And I used to watch these FBI guys that were getting ready to 1292 01:01:28,280 --> 01:01:29,360 retire. I had a bunch of them on my 1293 01:01:29,360 --> 01:01:31,480 squads because they would come out to surveillance and they 1294 01:01:31,480 --> 01:01:33,280 would, you know, do their last couple years of just watching 1295 01:01:33,280 --> 01:01:37,800 bad guys, writing up reports. And when they were going to let 1296 01:01:37,800 --> 01:01:41,360 go of the badge, Like it was like losing something that was 1297 01:01:41,360 --> 01:01:44,200 part of them. And they would come back and 1298 01:01:44,200 --> 01:01:45,360 call us. And they want to come out and 1299 01:01:45,360 --> 01:01:47,520 have that, hey, can we come hang out with the squad afterwards? 1300 01:01:47,520 --> 01:01:49,440 They're retired. It's like, dude, go play golf or 1301 01:01:49,440 --> 01:01:50,400 something. Like go to Florida. 1302 01:01:50,400 --> 01:01:52,040 I don't know what you're doing. Like, why do you want to hang 1303 01:01:52,040 --> 01:01:53,760 out with a bunch of dudes that are still crushing the clock? 1304 01:01:54,320 --> 01:01:57,040 Because it's so enmeshed in the identity. 1305 01:01:57,480 --> 01:02:01,360 And also the reputation of the agency is also enmeshed in their 1306 01:02:01,360 --> 01:02:03,520 identity. And I think that's why so many 1307 01:02:03,520 --> 01:02:07,360 people defend agencies that are no longer defend defensible. 1308 01:02:07,720 --> 01:02:09,160 But I'm curious if you think the same. 1309 01:02:09,640 --> 01:02:10,880 Yes. Absolutely. 1310 01:02:11,280 --> 01:02:14,920 And FBI in particular. FBI extremely prestigious, 1311 01:02:15,120 --> 01:02:18,680 extremely prestigious and and they do a very good job of 1312 01:02:19,240 --> 01:02:21,640 indoctrinating people. Like I remember it wasn't that 1313 01:02:21,640 --> 01:02:25,120 long ago, like 3-4 years ago, we did a warrant down in Miami and 1314 01:02:25,120 --> 01:02:29,440 they had a New Girl who's like a computer scientist or some car 1315 01:02:29,440 --> 01:02:36,800 person just out of college. And she said to us like, oh, I'm 1316 01:02:36,800 --> 01:02:38,120 so glad to be working for the FBI. 1317 01:02:38,120 --> 01:02:39,920 This is the greatest agency on the planet. 1318 01:02:39,920 --> 01:02:41,800 This is the greatest job I could ever have. 1319 01:02:42,440 --> 01:02:44,960 I couldn't, I would work here for free. 1320 01:02:45,560 --> 01:02:49,960 I was like, whoa, like what did they do to you? 1321 01:02:49,960 --> 01:02:54,120 Because that's just insane. But the agents are, are very 1322 01:02:54,120 --> 01:02:57,600 similar to that because it, it just, it's who you are. 1323 01:02:57,600 --> 01:02:59,480 You've been law enforcement, you carry a badge. 1324 01:02:59,480 --> 01:03:01,800 It's a very powerful position. Like, I don't think people 1325 01:03:01,800 --> 01:03:04,480 really grasp how powerful that position is. 1326 01:03:04,760 --> 01:03:07,480 What you do to somebody when you show up on their doorstep. 1327 01:03:07,960 --> 01:03:12,280 It's, it's an incredible power and it's an incredible feeling. 1328 01:03:12,320 --> 01:03:15,960 It's a, you know, the rush of arresting people, of getting up 1329 01:03:15,960 --> 01:03:19,680 at 6:00 AM and, and donning all that gear and going in and 1330 01:03:19,680 --> 01:03:22,200 arresting people and doing all this law enforcement stuff. 1331 01:03:22,200 --> 01:03:25,560 And, and the rush of, you know, sitting in surveillance for 1332 01:03:25,560 --> 01:03:27,520 eight hours while you're waiting for somebody. 1333 01:03:27,520 --> 01:03:31,560 And then suddenly they're moving and chasing them around and, and 1334 01:03:31,560 --> 01:03:35,160 having to go out on foot and, and, and get close to them and 1335 01:03:35,160 --> 01:03:38,640 see them and ultimately concluding a case and going to 1336 01:03:38,640 --> 01:03:42,360 trial and testifying. It's all like enmeshed in, in 1337 01:03:42,600 --> 01:03:44,600 some degree who you are. And you've been doing it for, 1338 01:03:45,200 --> 01:03:46,800 you know, 25 years. Some of these guys who did it 1339 01:03:46,800 --> 01:03:48,920 for 3035 years because they stay on forever. 1340 01:03:50,400 --> 01:03:53,600 And I think that is a huge part of why people don't want to 1341 01:03:53,600 --> 01:03:55,960 retire. But in my case, it's really like 1342 01:03:57,040 --> 01:04:01,400 a little bit of it was not so much of that because I like IRS. 1343 01:04:01,400 --> 01:04:04,080 Like a lot of times I wouldn't even tell people I work for the 1344 01:04:04,080 --> 01:04:10,320 IRS. I would tell people like I work 1345 01:04:10,320 --> 01:04:13,120 for the zoo or like for something, something outrageous 1346 01:04:13,120 --> 01:04:15,880 because it was not. It's not like IRS carries a lot 1347 01:04:15,880 --> 01:04:17,920 of glory, right? And no one knows IRS criminal 1348 01:04:17,920 --> 01:04:20,320 investigations. That's right, Audit jokes and 1349 01:04:20,320 --> 01:04:23,320 stupid iris jokes. You know, you carry armed onto 1350 01:04:23,320 --> 01:04:26,680 an airplane, you get the pilots give you the jokes, you know, 1351 01:04:26,680 --> 01:04:28,880 the people working there give you the jokes and you're like, 1352 01:04:28,880 --> 01:04:31,520 OK, this is this is my third flight today. 1353 01:04:31,520 --> 01:04:33,560 Like this is the third time I've heard it, Guys. 1354 01:04:33,760 --> 01:04:35,840 Like you know. Yeah, get some new material. 1355 01:04:36,400 --> 01:04:40,040 Yeah. The I used to tell people that I 1356 01:04:40,040 --> 01:04:43,120 was a secret agent because everything at the FBI has done 1357 01:04:43,120 --> 01:04:47,120 on that secret side, that FBI net, you know, and, and then 1358 01:04:47,320 --> 01:04:49,080 they were so secretive about stupid stuff. 1359 01:04:49,080 --> 01:04:50,680 They're like, you can't tell people you work for the FBI. 1360 01:04:50,680 --> 01:04:53,760 That's the old like, did you get your paycheck from the IRS? 1361 01:04:53,760 --> 01:04:56,080 Did your pay stub say IRS? Department of. 1362 01:04:56,800 --> 01:04:58,640 Agriculture, So we all get paid through the Department of 1363 01:04:58,640 --> 01:05:00,160 Agriculture. Like it's some kind of a secret. 1364 01:05:00,160 --> 01:05:02,400 And I don't know why, if that's just because it's convenient to 1365 01:05:02,400 --> 01:05:04,800 go through the National Finance Center and that's Department of 1366 01:05:04,800 --> 01:05:07,520 AG, or if somebody was like, plausibly, if someone were to 1367 01:05:07,520 --> 01:05:09,160 look at your mail, they'd say you were part of agriculture. 1368 01:05:09,160 --> 01:05:10,880 They wouldn't know you were a special agent. 1369 01:05:10,880 --> 01:05:13,200 It's like, I feel like that's probably part of it. 1370 01:05:13,960 --> 01:05:15,520 If not, it's certainly grown into it. 1371 01:05:15,680 --> 01:05:17,240 But there was nothing more embarrassing to me. 1372 01:05:17,240 --> 01:05:18,560 So I would just be like, yeah, I'm a secret agent. 1373 01:05:18,800 --> 01:05:20,560 And they go, do you mean a special agent? 1374 01:05:20,560 --> 01:05:22,480 And they go, no, no, I don't think so. 1375 01:05:22,480 --> 01:05:24,800 It's a secret on everything I do, all the stuff I do, it's a 1376 01:05:24,800 --> 01:05:25,840 secret. I can't talk about it 1377 01:05:25,840 --> 01:05:27,520 theoretically, like my wife doesn't under. 1378 01:05:27,520 --> 01:05:29,960 I can't talk about my cases. They're dumb. 1379 01:05:30,400 --> 01:05:34,800 I'm my favorite would when I would try to obfuscate like I'd 1380 01:05:34,800 --> 01:05:37,720 be like, I work for the Department of Treasury, right, 1381 01:05:37,720 --> 01:05:39,440 because IRS is under Department of Treasury. 1382 01:05:39,440 --> 01:05:40,720 I work for the Department of Treasury. 1383 01:05:40,720 --> 01:05:42,240 I'm a special agent with Department of Treasury. 1384 01:05:42,240 --> 01:05:46,360 And then like the smart people would be like, oh, what agency? 1385 01:05:47,240 --> 01:05:54,520 It'd be like IRS. You know, we used to get really 1386 01:05:54,520 --> 01:05:57,560 pissed at the IRS guys that were on the JTTF because people would 1387 01:05:57,560 --> 01:05:58,880 be like, hey, we're working on this case. 1388 01:05:58,880 --> 01:06:01,680 We got this guy. What do we got to do to get tax 1389 01:06:01,680 --> 01:06:04,240 records on this? And they'd be like, yeah, we 1390 01:06:04,240 --> 01:06:06,200 can't help you. And then you'd be like, well, 1391 01:06:06,200 --> 01:06:07,520 what are you here for? Like, I understand. 1392 01:06:07,520 --> 01:06:08,640 Like, what are you bringing to the fight? 1393 01:06:08,640 --> 01:06:11,200 And they'd be like, not that about that. 1394 01:06:11,720 --> 01:06:13,720 I would always go up when I was working on a different kind of 1395 01:06:13,720 --> 01:06:15,000 case because I didn't work the, the CT stuff. 1396 01:06:15,200 --> 01:06:17,160 And I'd go on to the 7th floor and I'd ask him, I'd be like, 1397 01:06:17,400 --> 01:06:19,160 Hey, do you guys have the ability to get tax records on 1398 01:06:19,160 --> 01:06:20,200 this? Like do I, is there some kind of 1399 01:06:20,200 --> 01:06:21,680 process I can do? And they're like, no. 1400 01:06:23,200 --> 01:06:27,560 And I was like, no, period, not no comma, but there was no, but 1401 01:06:27,800 --> 01:06:29,800 there's no additional process. There wouldn't be. 1402 01:06:30,040 --> 01:06:32,400 So I'd just be like, all right, I guess I go back to my weird 1403 01:06:32,400 --> 01:06:34,920 stupid case. Databases, Now you could 1404 01:06:34,920 --> 01:06:38,200 actually sort of search that stuff and sort of give you like 1405 01:06:38,800 --> 01:06:41,960 sort of on the sly, right? Or you just couldn't even like 1406 01:06:41,960 --> 01:06:43,880 you couldn't get it 'cause I would have to have requested 1407 01:06:43,880 --> 01:06:45,160 from somebody else give a reason. 1408 01:06:45,160 --> 01:06:47,640 Now you just type in and you can see it and you're like, oh like, 1409 01:06:48,760 --> 01:06:51,120 yeah, this guy's employed at such and such place, but you 1410 01:06:51,120 --> 01:06:52,440 didn't. But you don't know where it came 1411 01:06:52,440 --> 01:06:54,320 from. But that's that's where it came 1412 01:06:54,320 --> 01:06:55,920 from. And, and honestly, like that 1413 01:06:55,920 --> 01:06:58,360 clearing House of you don't know where it came from or I'm giving 1414 01:06:58,360 --> 01:07:00,240 you a lead, I'm gonna kind of give you the I'll point you in 1415 01:07:00,240 --> 01:07:01,920 the right direction, but it didn't come from me kind of 1416 01:07:01,920 --> 01:07:03,240 thing. That's kind of what a lot of the 1417 01:07:03,240 --> 01:07:07,040 JTTF value was as an agent. And if you're going after really 1418 01:07:07,040 --> 01:07:10,040 bad guys, that's not the problem is you have to have really good 1419 01:07:10,040 --> 01:07:11,760 moral character. You have to know that when 1420 01:07:11,760 --> 01:07:13,320 someone tells you, hey, we're going to run after all these 1421 01:07:13,320 --> 01:07:15,400 like misdemeanor cases and we're going to change our entire 1422 01:07:15,400 --> 01:07:18,840 agency to pursue people from a riot on one day that you're 1423 01:07:18,840 --> 01:07:20,920 like, I don't want anything to do with that. 1424 01:07:21,120 --> 01:07:23,320 How do I not do that? I know you got yourself kind of 1425 01:07:23,320 --> 01:07:25,760 into some spicy stuff. Your, your old Twitter account 1426 01:07:25,760 --> 01:07:29,280 disappeared, which was very sad to me because it was my favorite 1427 01:07:29,280 --> 01:07:30,360 thing. I didn't have Twitter back in 1428 01:07:30,360 --> 01:07:32,080 the day. But what I did have was your 1429 01:07:32,080 --> 01:07:34,960 page and about three others bookmarked, just for your 1430 01:07:34,960 --> 01:07:36,640 awareness. I had Shipwreck Crew, Bill 1431 01:07:36,640 --> 01:07:40,160 Shipley. Yeah, they knew I had you 1432 01:07:40,160 --> 01:07:41,400 bookmark. You were a great source of 1433 01:07:41,400 --> 01:07:42,920 information. And also I was like, thank God 1434 01:07:42,920 --> 01:07:46,080 there's someone who who knows what's what it's really like and 1435 01:07:46,080 --> 01:07:47,720 is saying things that are accurate and they're not 1436 01:07:47,720 --> 01:07:50,240 emotional about it. And then I had Andy. 1437 01:07:50,240 --> 01:07:51,960 No, always bookmarked. I'd always go read Andy. 1438 01:07:51,960 --> 01:07:53,960 No, because I wanted to know what Antifa was doing, which 1439 01:07:54,080 --> 01:07:56,040 probably saved my life once or twice when I was in Portland. 1440 01:07:56,320 --> 01:08:00,520 So I didn't do Twitter, but I did watch Sir Aaron and I kept, 1441 01:08:00,640 --> 01:08:02,280 I kept track of it. And then when you disappeared, 1442 01:08:02,600 --> 01:08:06,120 then you popped up under your new handle and I was like, this 1443 01:08:06,120 --> 01:08:08,240 sounds very familiar. I feel like I know this style 1444 01:08:08,240 --> 01:08:11,600 of, of, of presentation. You got into hot water over that 1445 01:08:11,600 --> 01:08:14,160 though. I did a little bit, a little 1446 01:08:14,160 --> 01:08:16,399 bit. So the FBI brought me in one day 1447 01:08:16,399 --> 01:08:20,800 and like, hey, like, just so you know, security is is let us 1448 01:08:20,800 --> 01:08:22,120 know. So I was, you know, what the 1449 01:08:22,120 --> 01:08:25,399 task force working at the FBI full time FBI supervisor brings 1450 01:08:25,399 --> 01:08:29,960 me and says, Hey, security is, you know, said something about 1451 01:08:29,960 --> 01:08:33,960 your Twitter and, you know, said something about you're doing pro 1452 01:08:33,960 --> 01:08:37,120 Christian, pro Republican tweeting. 1453 01:08:37,560 --> 01:08:39,479 And I thought, well, that's weird because I, I don't really 1454 01:08:39,800 --> 01:08:45,399 think I'm very pro Republican because I'm about as critical of 1455 01:08:45,399 --> 01:08:49,960 them as I am with anybody else. But OK, so, but the pro 1456 01:08:49,960 --> 01:08:52,760 Christian was the one that really, really caught my eye 1457 01:08:52,760 --> 01:08:56,319 because I'm like, well, what does that have to do with, you 1458 01:08:56,319 --> 01:08:58,200 know, tea in China? Like, that has nothing to do 1459 01:08:58,200 --> 01:09:02,560 with anything, right? So he's like, but you know, the, 1460 01:09:02,800 --> 01:09:04,520 the, we've talked it over with the SA CS. 1461 01:09:04,680 --> 01:09:06,600 At that point in time, I had become a program manager. 1462 01:09:06,600 --> 01:09:08,279 I'd taken a spot out of program manager. 1463 01:09:08,279 --> 01:09:11,040 And for whatever reason, that supervisor was in a hurry to Get 1464 01:09:11,040 --> 01:09:13,920 Me Out of that space, as if he had somebody else that was going 1465 01:09:13,920 --> 01:09:15,840 to take that space. Because I was still offering 1466 01:09:15,840 --> 01:09:17,200 value. I was still teaching my 1467 01:09:17,200 --> 01:09:19,520 replacement. I was still working on cases, 1468 01:09:19,520 --> 01:09:20,960 but he was in a hurry to Get Me Out. 1469 01:09:20,960 --> 01:09:22,439 So I was like, OK, well, I'm a program manager. 1470 01:09:22,439 --> 01:09:25,359 I'll just leave. And so it so I, we already 1471 01:09:25,560 --> 01:09:27,399 discussed that I was going to transition off. 1472 01:09:27,399 --> 01:09:29,359 So at that point in time said, well, you're transitioning off. 1473 01:09:29,720 --> 01:09:33,359 So we've talked over at the SAC. We're going to, we're going to 1474 01:09:33,359 --> 01:09:36,000 go ahead and like do nothing about it to we're just, we're 1475 01:09:36,000 --> 01:09:39,439 just going to close it out. I thought, OK, well, that's odd, 1476 01:09:39,880 --> 01:09:41,479 but OK. So I said, well, you, are you 1477 01:09:41,479 --> 01:09:43,560 going to let my agency know So I know what to expect? 1478 01:09:43,560 --> 01:09:45,160 Oh, no, we don't think we need to do that. 1479 01:09:46,080 --> 01:09:48,880 OK, So I said, OK, well, I'll just close my Twitter account. 1480 01:09:48,880 --> 01:09:51,840 So then it doesn't cause anyone any problems and that'll be the 1481 01:09:51,840 --> 01:09:53,680 end of it. And he says, OK, that's a good 1482 01:09:53,680 --> 01:09:56,320 idea. I'll let them know that, you 1483 01:09:56,320 --> 01:09:57,960 know, this is not going to be any problem going forward. 1484 01:09:57,960 --> 01:09:59,880 Because I knew that that's one of the assessments that they 1485 01:09:59,880 --> 01:10:03,320 look at is like, what is this going to be like a continuing 1486 01:10:03,320 --> 01:10:05,840 problem, right. So I said, OK, I'll just, I'll 1487 01:10:05,840 --> 01:10:08,080 just get rid of it. And when I told my family, 1488 01:10:08,080 --> 01:10:10,720 they're like, no, you, you're on Twitter way too much. 1489 01:10:10,720 --> 01:10:15,840 Like they were anxious, like my kids were like, no, you're, 1490 01:10:15,920 --> 01:10:17,320 you're it was like a running joke. 1491 01:10:17,320 --> 01:10:19,160 Like we can't spend any time with you because you're on 1492 01:10:19,160 --> 01:10:20,480 Twitter. So I was like at that point in 1493 01:10:20,480 --> 01:10:23,080 time, like I realized, OK, I have two problems. 1494 01:10:23,080 --> 01:10:26,280 I have my work problem but also have my like, I'm just on it too 1495 01:10:26,280 --> 01:10:28,640 much so I need to like be off of it. 1496 01:10:29,360 --> 01:10:33,040 So this was a way to like be off of it, like make sure I am off 1497 01:10:33,040 --> 01:10:34,840 of it completely. So. 1498 01:10:34,920 --> 01:10:37,560 You you were on Twitter quite a bit and like I said, I I always 1499 01:10:37,560 --> 01:10:39,480 enjoyed the takes because it always felt like somebody was 1500 01:10:39,480 --> 01:10:41,800 saying the thing that at somebody choose that we have to 1501 01:10:41,800 --> 01:10:44,000 describe this Twitter account. By the way, it's Sir Aaron and I 1502 01:10:44,000 --> 01:10:46,560 think there was an under score after it, if my memory is, is 1503 01:10:46,560 --> 01:10:49,840 there or something like that. But I think right. 1504 01:10:50,480 --> 01:10:52,520 I think so. I don't remember now 'cause I 1505 01:10:52,680 --> 01:10:55,440 you know, I deleted it so. I'm just telling you, like I had 1506 01:10:55,440 --> 01:10:57,720 to type it in manually. So it was in my head for like a 1507 01:10:57,760 --> 01:10:59,440 like a year or two or however long you were doing that. 1508 01:10:59,880 --> 01:11:02,200 Followers too. I had a pretty good good, pretty 1509 01:11:02,200 --> 01:11:03,800 good chunk of followers that I don't have now. 1510 01:11:03,880 --> 01:11:05,400 Yeah, you had a couple thousand people following. 1511 01:11:05,400 --> 01:11:06,920 People probably don't even know they lost you. 1512 01:11:07,280 --> 01:11:11,200 And the thing that was good is that you had a crusader, like a 1513 01:11:11,200 --> 01:11:14,440 knight crusader that was on kind of the backdrop picture. 1514 01:11:15,200 --> 01:11:17,800 And then you just come in and, and like you said, exactly 1515 01:11:17,960 --> 01:11:20,880 legitimately pro Christian. And this was well before I kind 1516 01:11:20,880 --> 01:11:23,760 of had the sense where I'm like, I really need God to save me 1517 01:11:23,760 --> 01:11:25,520 from what I'm doing right now 'cause I don't understand, like 1518 01:11:25,520 --> 01:11:27,760 what I'm fighting. So, but I still knew that you 1519 01:11:27,760 --> 01:11:30,640 should be able to have Christian views and nobody should screw 1520 01:11:30,640 --> 01:11:32,080 with you. And so you kept bringing these 1521 01:11:32,080 --> 01:11:34,120 just, and they were totally fair. 1522 01:11:34,120 --> 01:11:36,400 That's why I liked it. It wasn't Republican or 1523 01:11:36,400 --> 01:11:39,320 Democrat. It was like guy in the middle 1524 01:11:39,320 --> 01:11:44,160 who just wants to go have 1980s rationality and understand that 1525 01:11:44,160 --> 01:11:47,520 things are kind of balanced and some people suck and and that 1526 01:11:47,520 --> 01:11:50,040 person is that person. I thought I was super pro 1527 01:11:50,040 --> 01:11:52,880 critical of a Republican because I, I'm registered Republican, 1528 01:11:52,880 --> 01:11:54,720 but I don't consider myself really Republican. 1529 01:11:54,720 --> 01:12:00,160 But like I worked under Trump and under the whole shutdown and 1530 01:12:00,160 --> 01:12:04,200 all the vaccinations and that was terrible. 1531 01:12:04,520 --> 01:12:07,840 I was terrible. Like I, I was super pro critical 1532 01:12:07,840 --> 01:12:10,760 of all that stuff and the craziness that went on in 1533 01:12:10,760 --> 01:12:14,320 government. Like one of my FBI buddies that 1534 01:12:14,320 --> 01:12:17,400 I worked with at cyber crimes, like they threatened him, like 1535 01:12:17,400 --> 01:12:21,880 his SAC threatened to have him arrested because he wouldn't 1536 01:12:22,240 --> 01:12:24,720 isolate because he had like a family wedding or something. 1537 01:12:25,160 --> 01:12:28,920 And he had been exposed. Like one of the guys in in work 1538 01:12:28,920 --> 01:12:32,160 had come in and sort of technically exposed all of us. 1539 01:12:32,600 --> 01:12:34,920 And so they wanted him to isolate for 10 days and he's 1540 01:12:34,920 --> 01:12:36,480 like, bullshit, I'm not doing that. 1541 01:12:36,600 --> 01:12:39,320 I'm going to my family wedding and they threatened to have him 1542 01:12:39,320 --> 01:12:41,720 arrested at the airport. People do not know how. 1543 01:12:42,000 --> 01:12:43,920 Crazy. That was what it was like. 1544 01:12:43,920 --> 01:12:48,280 Now I got vaccinated too, because I got the vaccination 1545 01:12:48,280 --> 01:12:50,480 before they had the mandates like it when it first came out. 1546 01:12:50,480 --> 01:12:51,720 I got vaccinated. I remember. 1547 01:12:51,720 --> 01:12:53,800 When the team. Came out, we were all like, man, 1548 01:12:53,800 --> 01:12:56,880 I wish we had like we could rip this out of our skin now because 1549 01:12:56,880 --> 01:13:00,600 like we hated the mandate so much and people left and lost 1550 01:13:00,600 --> 01:13:06,120 their jobs over that stuff. It, it was, it was crazy, crazy. 1551 01:13:06,480 --> 01:13:11,600 And so I, I was like, I thought I was super critical of, of 1552 01:13:11,600 --> 01:13:14,560 stuff because I just felt like the government had gone so far 1553 01:13:14,560 --> 01:13:18,360 downhill and I didn't feel like it was like, it's just the 1554 01:13:18,360 --> 01:13:21,040 Democrats that were the problem. So anyway, that's sort of 1555 01:13:21,040 --> 01:13:24,720 alongside on my Twitter account. But ultimately I got rid of it 1556 01:13:24,720 --> 01:13:28,000 because that the FBI supervisor thought that was a good idea and 1557 01:13:28,000 --> 01:13:32,680 my, and my family life. And ultimately though, they did 1558 01:13:32,680 --> 01:13:35,880 actually tell my agency of. Course. 1559 01:13:38,120 --> 01:13:40,560 Maybe he was trying to do me a solid and wait until I was close 1560 01:13:40,560 --> 01:13:44,720 to retirement age because they they came and told me about it 1561 01:13:44,720 --> 01:13:48,960 like in person, like I was a criminal at my house because at 1562 01:13:48,960 --> 01:13:50,760 that point I was time as a program manager and working out 1563 01:13:50,760 --> 01:13:54,000 of my house at the end of the time I'm like, came to my house. 1564 01:13:54,840 --> 01:13:59,120 Yeah, came to my house surprising, took my gun, said 1565 01:13:59,120 --> 01:14:02,320 hey, you're on restricted duty. And that's, and I was like, 1566 01:14:02,440 --> 01:14:06,680 well, like I was like a week before the end of the month. 1567 01:14:06,960 --> 01:14:10,480 So I was just like the next day I just did my retirement 1568 01:14:10,480 --> 01:14:13,040 paperwork, said I'm out of here. So. 1569 01:14:14,840 --> 01:14:18,080 That is incredible. Is it not incredible that they 1570 01:14:18,080 --> 01:14:20,520 came, they, they put you on restricted duty over a Twitter 1571 01:14:20,520 --> 01:14:24,000 account that I'm telling you, I read it, we knew that you were a 1572 01:14:24,000 --> 01:14:26,120 Fed. You made references to it on a 1573 01:14:26,120 --> 01:14:28,960 regular basis. It wasn't exactly hiding it like 1574 01:14:28,960 --> 01:14:31,120 I it wasn't a very good pseudonym. 1575 01:14:31,440 --> 01:14:34,320 There's a there's a guy that we don't know who he who he, what 1576 01:14:34,320 --> 01:14:36,600 agency he works for and he might work for the FBI based on the 1577 01:14:36,600 --> 01:14:38,600 contempt he has for the FBI. It's called unconvincing 1578 01:14:38,600 --> 01:14:41,280 Undercover and he has this account on Instagram. 1579 01:14:41,280 --> 01:14:45,160 And it's absolutely, it is like cuts to the bone, hilarious 1580 01:14:45,160 --> 01:14:47,720 stuff. Makes fun of all the things that 1581 01:14:47,720 --> 01:14:50,400 you really, really have to know. You either work on a task force 1582 01:14:50,400 --> 01:14:54,520 or he is part of the FBI and despises the job. 1583 01:14:55,320 --> 01:14:56,800 Like so many people have gotten to that point. 1584 01:14:57,360 --> 01:14:59,280 But yeah, you all the inside baseball, I would read it and 1585 01:14:59,280 --> 01:15:00,880 I'm like, it's the best. It's the best. 1586 01:15:00,880 --> 01:15:04,200 Hearing somebody else who's rational and the idea that they 1587 01:15:04,200 --> 01:15:05,720 thought that was threatening. I didn't know what happened to 1588 01:15:05,720 --> 01:15:06,520 you. Like, at some point you just 1589 01:15:06,520 --> 01:15:07,600 disappeared. And I'm like, no, I don't know. 1590 01:15:07,600 --> 01:15:08,560 Like, I don't know about social media. 1591 01:15:08,560 --> 01:15:11,160 People just turn it off. So I'm glad it was for family, 1592 01:15:11,160 --> 01:15:12,000 too. That's the good news. 1593 01:15:12,240 --> 01:15:14,400 The insane thing to me is that someone came and took your gun 1594 01:15:14,400 --> 01:15:15,680 over it. But that actually doesn't 1595 01:15:15,680 --> 01:15:17,520 surprise me even a little bit. And I'm really glad when you 1596 01:15:17,520 --> 01:15:20,760 reached out and kind of shared. Waited a long time, and I was 1597 01:15:21,040 --> 01:15:22,680 always waiting for that other shoe to drop. 1598 01:15:23,280 --> 01:15:26,240 And so then what happened was apparently they told the US 1599 01:15:26,240 --> 01:15:28,880 attorney's office and I was one of my old cases. 1600 01:15:29,920 --> 01:15:32,360 And so they told me so that he would say, he says, hey, I'm 1601 01:15:32,360 --> 01:15:33,360 going to. I'm not going to have you 1602 01:15:33,360 --> 01:15:34,920 testify in this case. And I'm like, well, that's 1603 01:15:34,920 --> 01:15:36,720 interesting because I'm not working cases anymore. 1604 01:15:36,720 --> 01:15:39,520 You need to find someone else anyways, but whatever. 1605 01:15:40,280 --> 01:15:42,320 Yeah. Because I saw your Twitter stuff 1606 01:15:42,320 --> 01:15:44,960 and I'm like, yeah. And he's like, well, this would 1607 01:15:44,960 --> 01:15:47,160 never go to a jury, but I just don't want to deal with it. 1608 01:15:47,440 --> 01:15:51,720 I was like, oh, it still doesn't make any sense to me, but 1609 01:15:51,800 --> 01:15:54,560 whatever, dude, I don't care. I really don't care. 1610 01:15:55,000 --> 01:15:58,080 So it was based on that, that ultimately it went and then I 1611 01:15:58,080 --> 01:16:01,680 guess Tigda opened up an investigation and then my agency 1612 01:16:01,680 --> 01:16:03,720 said, OK, well, he's on restricted duty. 1613 01:16:04,160 --> 01:16:06,640 And then it was weird those that they had to come to my house and 1614 01:16:06,640 --> 01:16:09,080 do that. They could have just called me 1615 01:16:09,080 --> 01:16:11,920 or texted me or sent me, like even my bosses didn't even tell 1616 01:16:11,920 --> 01:16:15,600 me. So it was, it was sort of 1617 01:16:15,600 --> 01:16:17,000 stupid. But then my boss was like, I 1618 01:16:17,000 --> 01:16:19,000 don't understand where this is going because unless you 1619 01:16:19,000 --> 01:16:21,600 actually threaten the president or something like this is not, 1620 01:16:21,960 --> 01:16:24,040 this is not an issue. Like there's nothing they can do 1621 01:16:24,040 --> 01:16:25,760 to you. And I, I had a very long 1622 01:16:25,760 --> 01:16:29,280 conversation with Bill Shipley. I called him on the phone and I 1623 01:16:29,280 --> 01:16:32,520 talked to Leslie McAdoo and I talked to my family and I'm 1624 01:16:32,520 --> 01:16:35,360 like, well, what should I do? Because my FLEOA attorney was 1625 01:16:35,360 --> 01:16:37,360 like, you should fight this. Like you're going to win. 1626 01:16:37,440 --> 01:16:39,520 Unless you're not telling me something, you're going to win 1627 01:16:39,520 --> 01:16:40,560 this. It's going to be good. 1628 01:16:40,600 --> 01:16:43,720 You wouldn't have won. Well, that's what Bill Shipley 1629 01:16:43,720 --> 01:16:46,080 told me. He said you would win. 1630 01:16:46,880 --> 01:16:49,200 What does winning mean? Because they're not going to 1631 01:16:49,200 --> 01:16:51,400 apologize. And so this sort of goes back to 1632 01:16:51,400 --> 01:16:55,920 a story when I was at Fletse. So when I was in Fletse, I got a 1633 01:16:55,920 --> 01:17:00,720 nasty letter, a memo from the the chief at Fletse. 1634 01:17:00,720 --> 01:17:04,440 So like the highest personnel accusing me of lying on my 1635 01:17:04,440 --> 01:17:09,760 background check because I had a collection amount due on my 1636 01:17:09,760 --> 01:17:11,000 credit report or something, right? 1637 01:17:11,720 --> 01:17:15,480 So he said you, you, I'm reminding you, you know, you 1638 01:17:15,480 --> 01:17:20,160 answered this question about 180 days past due and you're not 1639 01:17:20,160 --> 01:17:22,960 supposed to lie on this form. And it wasn't exactly accusing 1640 01:17:22,960 --> 01:17:25,920 me, but the undertone was basically accusing you of lying. 1641 01:17:25,920 --> 01:17:27,760 But we're not going to, we're going to let this slide this 1642 01:17:27,760 --> 01:17:30,960 time, right? And so I investigated it and 1643 01:17:30,960 --> 01:17:36,800 turns out I had like a 6860 day old debt from a phone company 1644 01:17:36,800 --> 01:17:39,240 because I was going to move in an apartment and I had asked him 1645 01:17:39,240 --> 01:17:40,680 to connect a phone, but didn't move there. 1646 01:17:40,680 --> 01:17:44,000 So I didn't actually use them. And so it was like a $50.00 bill 1647 01:17:44,720 --> 01:17:47,240 for connection or something. And it was only 60 days old. 1648 01:17:47,240 --> 01:17:50,120 So it didn't even meet the 180 day question in the 1st place. 1649 01:17:50,680 --> 01:17:53,320 And so I called the company and said, hey, like you didn't even 1650 01:17:53,320 --> 01:17:54,880 tell me there was this bill. And they looked into it and 1651 01:17:54,880 --> 01:17:57,360 said, yeah, you know, the, the mail that we sent to that 1652 01:17:57,360 --> 01:17:59,800 address came back. So we'll take it off your credit 1653 01:17:59,800 --> 01:18:01,960 report just. And so I paid them. 1654 01:18:02,520 --> 01:18:05,840 And so I wrote a memo back to them, you know, saying, hey, 1655 01:18:05,840 --> 01:18:07,240 this is all the stuff that's outlined. 1656 01:18:07,240 --> 01:18:08,520 Can you please put this in my file? 1657 01:18:09,120 --> 01:18:12,880 Did they put it in my file? No, they didn't care. 1658 01:18:12,880 --> 01:18:14,800 Did they apologize for their mistake? 1659 01:18:14,920 --> 01:18:18,080 No, they didn't care. So that was Bill's point was 1660 01:18:18,080 --> 01:18:21,320 like, yeah, OK, the investigation will close and 1661 01:18:21,320 --> 01:18:23,400 you'll be fine. But they're not going to 1662 01:18:23,400 --> 01:18:24,480 apologize. Like they're not. 1663 01:18:24,600 --> 01:18:26,280 You're not going to get your honor back. 1664 01:18:26,520 --> 01:18:30,520 Like if that's what your goal here is, is to be like, restore 1665 01:18:30,520 --> 01:18:32,880 your honor. Like that is not going to 1666 01:18:32,880 --> 01:18:35,400 happen. Like at best, they'll probably 1667 01:18:35,920 --> 01:18:38,720 put a little letter in your file that says, hey, you didn't do 1668 01:18:38,720 --> 01:18:40,640 anything wrong, but don't do that again. 1669 01:18:40,880 --> 01:18:44,400 This is the most likely outcome. That's the best case scenario. 1670 01:18:44,960 --> 01:18:47,360 Right. Well, I didn't think they, like, 1671 01:18:47,360 --> 01:18:51,040 it's a little different in IRS than it is in the FBI. 1672 01:18:51,160 --> 01:18:53,440 The IRS goes all the way up to the Merit System Protection 1673 01:18:53,440 --> 01:18:55,640 Board. So like there's so many layers 1674 01:18:55,640 --> 01:18:58,160 of appeal. But one of the things that 1675 01:18:58,240 --> 01:19:01,280 convinced me was basically #1 why would I sit for a tick to 1676 01:19:01,280 --> 01:19:03,560 interview? Like, why would I put myself 1677 01:19:03,560 --> 01:19:06,720 through that even Like, yeah, I did do anything. 1678 01:19:06,800 --> 01:19:07,960 I don't feel I did anything wrong. 1679 01:19:07,960 --> 01:19:10,160 But why would I do that? And it would open me up to like, 1680 01:19:10,520 --> 01:19:11,760 them asking me whatever they want. 1681 01:19:11,760 --> 01:19:15,640 And I don't want to do that. But the other thing is I had 1682 01:19:15,640 --> 01:19:19,440 already been planning to retire. So if I wanted, if I stayed, how 1683 01:19:19,440 --> 01:19:22,480 long would I have to stay in order to deal with this? 1684 01:19:22,920 --> 01:19:26,760 And so there was that time frame and the, and my supervisor was 1685 01:19:26,760 --> 01:19:28,160 like, oh, it'll be done in 30 days. 1686 01:19:28,160 --> 01:19:30,720 And I was like, you're, you're, you're deluded. 1687 01:19:30,720 --> 01:19:32,120 It's this is going to take months. 1688 01:19:32,120 --> 01:19:34,600 Like there's no way. But it would have been sort of 1689 01:19:34,600 --> 01:19:38,520 convenient for me to keep going because restricted duty meant I 1690 01:19:38,520 --> 01:19:41,160 could literally do nothing but sit at home and get paid. 1691 01:19:41,720 --> 01:19:43,760 Like it was, it would have been a sweet gig. 1692 01:19:44,560 --> 01:19:47,160 But ultimately my family's like, you were going to retire 1693 01:19:47,160 --> 01:19:49,760 anyways. Leslie McAdoo I also had a long 1694 01:19:49,760 --> 01:19:52,080 conversation with. So all these people basically 1695 01:19:52,080 --> 01:19:55,080 said, there's no question, like in a normal person mind, why 1696 01:19:55,080 --> 01:19:58,320 would you stay for minimum wage? Like, what's the point? 1697 01:19:58,320 --> 01:20:00,960 Just retire. And so that's ultimately what I 1698 01:20:00,960 --> 01:20:02,960 did. I'm glad you did. 1699 01:20:03,600 --> 01:20:05,960 I'm also, I'm really glad because you at some point we 1700 01:20:05,960 --> 01:20:07,200 connected maybe in a Twitter space. 1701 01:20:07,200 --> 01:20:10,200 And I remember we started the kind of a back and forth DM. 1702 01:20:10,200 --> 01:20:13,640 You were kind of opining about things and I started recognizing 1703 01:20:13,840 --> 01:20:17,600 some of the, the, the familiar sort of takes and or the, the 1704 01:20:17,600 --> 01:20:18,880 verbal. I don't know what I picked up, 1705 01:20:18,880 --> 01:20:20,280 but I was like, hey, where are you, Sir Aaron? 1706 01:20:20,280 --> 01:20:23,560 Did that surprise you when I kind of honed it on that? 1707 01:20:24,680 --> 01:20:26,040 No. So it was like, it wasn't 1708 01:20:26,120 --> 01:20:28,640 exactly like a pseudonym was like really hidden. 1709 01:20:28,640 --> 01:20:31,240 And I, it started telling a few people, Hey, this is Sir Aaron's 1710 01:20:31,240 --> 01:20:33,400 try to get some of my followers back. 1711 01:20:34,000 --> 01:20:38,440 But I had changed like how what my focus was and and try to be 1712 01:20:38,440 --> 01:20:41,160 much more limited and how much time I spend on Twitter. 1713 01:20:41,160 --> 01:20:46,000 So it didn't, it didn't really surprise me, but maybe it was 1714 01:20:46,000 --> 01:20:48,120 like, wow, this guy's like sharper because he picked up on 1715 01:20:48,120 --> 01:20:51,360 it where other people, I had to sort of tell them because the 1716 01:20:51,360 --> 01:20:53,320 only people that really knew were like Bill Shipley and 1717 01:20:53,320 --> 01:20:55,480 Leslie make a do. Yeah, that checks out. 1718 01:20:55,480 --> 01:20:57,200 I I don't know, I just, and I didn't even have Twitter. 1719 01:20:57,200 --> 01:20:58,360 That's the thing that was so funny to me. 1720 01:20:58,360 --> 01:21:00,120 There was only a few accounts that I really honed in on where 1721 01:21:00,120 --> 01:21:01,240 I'm like, this is what I'm about. 1722 01:21:01,480 --> 01:21:06,160 I dig this style of just facts, just reasonable, just cutting 1723 01:21:06,160 --> 01:21:08,600 down the middle here where I where I think most of America 1724 01:21:08,600 --> 01:21:12,360 would generally live and and you know, and some hard opinions 1725 01:21:12,360 --> 01:21:14,040 that people didn't want to hear, which is also good. 1726 01:21:14,040 --> 01:21:15,080 That's, you know, you got to do that. 1727 01:21:15,880 --> 01:21:18,080 No, no, the whole the whole movement of these agencies, the 1728 01:21:18,080 --> 01:21:22,400 idea that IRS is also weaponized and going after people for 1729 01:21:22,520 --> 01:21:24,440 tweets because you had a pro Christian bend. 1730 01:21:25,680 --> 01:21:27,680 I I feel like that's the scariest thing in the world 1731 01:21:27,880 --> 01:21:30,240 because what you described as like basically 25 years of not 1732 01:21:30,240 --> 01:21:33,360 that. And then I don't know if it's 1733 01:21:33,360 --> 01:21:35,920 the FBI that pushed it on them or whether the entire government 1734 01:21:35,920 --> 01:21:39,120 got captured post 2021. Do you have an instinct about? 1735 01:21:39,120 --> 01:21:42,520 That at all? It's been going on since 1736 01:21:42,560 --> 01:21:45,760 probably Obama, I think maybe even before then. 1737 01:21:46,440 --> 01:21:50,200 Just my one thing of it is that, you know, Republicans come in, 1738 01:21:50,200 --> 01:21:54,080 they sort of see everybody as, hey, we want the best people, 1739 01:21:54,160 --> 01:21:55,960 but we don't care about their political bent. 1740 01:21:56,200 --> 01:21:59,320 But when Democrats come in, that's the only thing they care 1741 01:21:59,320 --> 01:22:01,360 about. And so I keep telling people 1742 01:22:01,360 --> 01:22:05,200 that people are policy because we and it was like the same 1743 01:22:05,200 --> 01:22:07,720 thing with Lois Lerner. Did Obama have to tell Lois 1744 01:22:07,720 --> 01:22:11,760 Lerner to to audit people? No, they didn't have to have a 1745 01:22:11,760 --> 01:22:14,120 conversation. That's what she believed in. 1746 01:22:14,120 --> 01:22:17,120 She did it on her own and the people underneath her believed 1747 01:22:17,120 --> 01:22:18,440 in it. She probably didn't have to have 1748 01:22:18,440 --> 01:22:19,560 a ton of emails with them either. 1749 01:22:19,560 --> 01:22:21,880 They just all did it because that's how they they all think 1750 01:22:21,880 --> 01:22:24,520 the same way. And so that becomes their policy 1751 01:22:24,600 --> 01:22:27,280 and that becomes how behaviors happen. 1752 01:22:27,280 --> 01:22:28,880 And it just keeps going and going. 1753 01:22:29,320 --> 01:22:32,960 And then it is never reversed. So it just builds up, builds up, 1754 01:22:32,960 --> 01:22:37,120 builds up and eventually that's just how it is. 1755 01:22:37,120 --> 01:22:41,040 And I and the, the recruiting standards have gone down 1756 01:22:41,320 --> 01:22:44,360 tremendously, like in order to meet their quotas. 1757 01:22:44,920 --> 01:22:49,000 So they just, my agency signed a 30 for 30 goal, which I think 1758 01:22:49,000 --> 01:22:52,080 30% women, but I'm surprised that we're not 30% women 1759 01:22:52,080 --> 01:22:53,920 already. Like that's shocking to me, like 1760 01:22:53,920 --> 01:22:58,240 because it seemed like more than that, but that, you know, in 1761 01:22:58,240 --> 01:22:59,760 order to do that, how are they going to do that? 1762 01:23:00,520 --> 01:23:04,160 Like you, I mean, I certain extent you could go out and sort 1763 01:23:04,160 --> 01:23:07,800 of try to appeal to certain demographics more, but 1764 01:23:08,120 --> 01:23:11,040 ultimately when the resumes come in, you have to pick the best. 1765 01:23:11,160 --> 01:23:13,160 And so either you're not picking the best or you're going to have 1766 01:23:13,160 --> 01:23:15,680 to lower the criteria. So then you can say, OK, all 1767 01:23:15,680 --> 01:23:19,480 these people met the criteria. Now we can choose who we want. 1768 01:23:20,520 --> 01:23:23,840 But Even so, my first job that I applied for with the government, 1769 01:23:23,840 --> 01:23:26,280 I was told if I was the last female, I would have been hired 1770 01:23:26,280 --> 01:23:31,560 on the spot. That was in 1996. 1771 01:23:32,320 --> 01:23:36,920 That was that was for this job. It was a intern position that 1772 01:23:36,920 --> 01:23:38,600 converts automatically to an agent. 1773 01:23:38,600 --> 01:23:42,000 You do it in college. And so I went and interviewed 1774 01:23:42,080 --> 01:23:44,640 and the interviews told me you, you have the best interview we 1775 01:23:44,640 --> 01:23:48,200 have ever seen. You're not a black female like 1776 01:23:48,200 --> 01:23:51,280 we would. And I found out later, I found 1777 01:23:51,280 --> 01:23:54,400 out reason why is because they use that like the local field 1778 01:23:54,400 --> 01:23:57,520 offices use that as a, as a diversity way to increase their 1779 01:23:57,560 --> 01:24:01,560 diversity goals. And so they're hiring particular 1780 01:24:01,560 --> 01:24:04,360 people for these positions and I didn't fit into that 1781 01:24:04,360 --> 01:24:07,880 demographic. Isn't that nauseating? 1782 01:24:08,960 --> 01:24:12,760 It is, but it also made me better because I knew that in 1783 01:24:12,760 --> 01:24:14,760 order to become an agent, I had to be I. 1784 01:24:14,760 --> 01:24:17,480 I couldn't be just average or good. 1785 01:24:17,560 --> 01:24:22,000 I had to be the best. My resume had to be the best. 1786 01:24:22,000 --> 01:24:23,880 My criteria would be the best. I had to have the best 1787 01:24:23,880 --> 01:24:25,400 interview. I'd be the most prepared. 1788 01:24:25,800 --> 01:24:28,160 Like if they were going to hire one white guy, it was going to 1789 01:24:28,160 --> 01:24:30,320 be me. So I had to be the very best I 1790 01:24:30,320 --> 01:24:32,480 could be. So in a certain extent, like it 1791 01:24:32,480 --> 01:24:35,200 made me a better, made me better at my job, I think. 1792 01:24:36,040 --> 01:24:40,000 That's a that's an individual situation as opposed to sort of 1793 01:24:40,000 --> 01:24:42,760 policy or aggregate. The aggregate is horrible for 1794 01:24:42,760 --> 01:24:44,320 this country. Individually, yes, I can see 1795 01:24:44,320 --> 01:24:45,920 that it could drive somebody to exceptionalism. 1796 01:24:45,920 --> 01:24:48,280 That's not a big deal. But when you talk about what it 1797 01:24:48,280 --> 01:24:51,000 does to the culture of the agency, it's the exact opposite 1798 01:24:51,000 --> 01:24:55,120 of what we just said. Yes, yes, all kinds of all 1799 01:24:55,160 --> 01:24:57,080 sorts, all sorts of criteria come down. 1800 01:24:57,600 --> 01:25:00,320 You're you're not getting the like I remember one guy that got 1801 01:25:00,320 --> 01:25:05,360 hired, he had to like a 2.5 GPAA 2.5 GPA. 1802 01:25:07,480 --> 01:25:10,240 I was asking him, Hey, so like, OK, you were an athletic, right? 1803 01:25:10,240 --> 01:25:13,440 You, you, which is incredibly time consuming. 1804 01:25:13,760 --> 01:25:16,520 No, no, no. OK, so you did a lot of 1805 01:25:16,520 --> 01:25:20,640 extracurriculars. No, no, you had a job, you had a 1806 01:25:20,640 --> 01:25:23,480 full time job. So that was the reason why you 1807 01:25:23,720 --> 01:25:26,120 didn't do it. No, no, no, just a shitty. 1808 01:25:26,120 --> 01:25:28,520 Student. Our GPA, we hired you with the 1809 01:25:28,520 --> 01:25:31,560 2.5 GPA and you're going to get paid the same as me. 1810 01:25:31,640 --> 01:25:35,400 That's it. You have the same job as me and 1811 01:25:35,400 --> 01:25:38,160 I did all this accomplishment and you did none, and we're 1812 01:25:38,160 --> 01:25:42,120 going to have the same job. And Iris also doesn't have any 1813 01:25:42,120 --> 01:25:45,880 physical standards, so you can imagine how that goes. 1814 01:25:47,000 --> 01:25:50,600 Some really fit gun toters is what you're saying. 1815 01:25:52,040 --> 01:25:55,840 Yeah, I, I spent all my time like preparing for basic because 1816 01:25:55,840 --> 01:25:57,880 I thought it was going to be really, really hard. 1817 01:25:58,280 --> 01:26:03,320 And so I got in great shape. I was 23 and was in sports all 1818 01:26:03,320 --> 01:26:05,080 my life. So I, I got, it wasn't like I 1819 01:26:05,080 --> 01:26:08,080 was in bad shape, but I was running like five to seven miles 1820 01:26:08,080 --> 01:26:11,080 a day, you know, really getting in shape because I thought it 1821 01:26:11,080 --> 01:26:18,640 was going to be like boot camp. No, no, a mile and a half, Like 1822 01:26:18,840 --> 01:26:23,360 no, no, you know it could be 150 lbs overweight. 1823 01:26:23,360 --> 01:26:26,080 No, they don't care. Literally don't care. 1824 01:26:26,560 --> 01:26:29,400 That was that was the minute when the FBI died for me. 1825 01:26:29,400 --> 01:26:32,520 The first day I walked in and I tried to get my welcome packet 1826 01:26:32,520 --> 01:26:34,080 at Quantico. And so you're walking in and 1827 01:26:34,080 --> 01:26:36,000 you're not stepping on the SEAL, which is on the ground 'cause 1828 01:26:36,000 --> 01:26:38,040 you haven't earned that yet or whatever other nonsense. 1829 01:26:38,160 --> 01:26:38,960 That's the way I thought about it. 1830 01:26:38,960 --> 01:26:42,640 Military mindset. I walk up to a fat 50 something 1831 01:26:42,640 --> 01:26:46,440 year old black lady sitting behind a desk who's from DC and 1832 01:26:46,440 --> 01:26:47,760 she's worked for the government her whole life. 1833 01:26:47,800 --> 01:26:49,920 And she hands me a packet and she's welcome to the FBI. 1834 01:26:49,920 --> 01:26:50,880 And I'm like, oh, thank you very much. 1835 01:26:51,120 --> 01:26:52,840 And I'm watching out of the corner of my eye to get punched 1836 01:26:52,840 --> 01:26:54,240 or smoked or whatever's coming next. 1837 01:26:54,240 --> 01:26:57,800 And it never happened. And that first week happened and 1838 01:26:57,800 --> 01:27:00,800 nobody ever dropped me on my face and let me know how garbage 1839 01:27:00,800 --> 01:27:02,640 I was. And nobody ever treated me 1840 01:27:02,640 --> 01:27:04,200 rough. They called me Sir and they're 1841 01:27:04,200 --> 01:27:06,000 really polite and we had to say Sir to each other. 1842 01:27:06,000 --> 01:27:08,440 And you're like, I don't think I signed up for what I thought I 1843 01:27:08,440 --> 01:27:10,320 was getting into here. This is not the right animal. 1844 01:27:10,360 --> 01:27:14,560 And even the FBI is like that. I actually went out for the, my, 1845 01:27:14,560 --> 01:27:16,600 my surveillance team actually added a, a fitness standard, 1846 01:27:16,600 --> 01:27:19,920 which was not common for most surveillance teams because we 1847 01:27:19,920 --> 01:27:21,840 were trying to up the standard of the people we brought in. 1848 01:27:22,000 --> 01:27:24,560 I said, if you want to recruit, better make it harder. 1849 01:27:24,800 --> 01:27:26,800 And my boss was like, huh. And I'm like, dude, you were on 1850 01:27:26,800 --> 01:27:30,120 HRT, you were on the tactical team, you were a Ranger, you 1851 01:27:30,120 --> 01:27:32,640 went to West Point. You make things harder, you get 1852 01:27:32,640 --> 01:27:34,680 better applicants and more people want to be because it's 1853 01:27:34,680 --> 01:27:36,000 elite. People want to be part of elite. 1854 01:27:36,000 --> 01:27:37,960 They don't want to be part of mediocrity, and they definitely 1855 01:27:37,960 --> 01:27:39,000 don't want to be part of castaways. 1856 01:27:39,480 --> 01:27:41,280 And he was like, huh, OK, so we created a standard. 1857 01:27:41,480 --> 01:27:43,880 So we're out running our fitness test as a team, which is not 1858 01:27:43,880 --> 01:27:45,240 common, and we're not doing this. 1859 01:27:45,240 --> 01:27:48,360 And I saw kids from the Academy and I out sprinted them on 1860 01:27:48,360 --> 01:27:52,520 purpose at like 40 years old. They're all in their early 20s. 1861 01:27:52,880 --> 01:27:54,800 And I out sprinted them. They're like pulling muscles and 1862 01:27:54,800 --> 01:27:56,480 stuff like that. And I'm making fun of them and 1863 01:27:56,600 --> 01:27:59,160 I'm running with a coffee cup in my hand just to show that I was 1864 01:27:59,160 --> 01:28:00,520 faster than them. And I thought they were weak 1865 01:28:00,720 --> 01:28:02,040 because I was like, what are we doing? 1866 01:28:02,040 --> 01:28:03,280 But that's the standard lowering. 1867 01:28:04,000 --> 01:28:05,960 And those people don't want to go out and meet their subjects. 1868 01:28:05,960 --> 01:28:07,160 They don't want to go out there and put eyes on. 1869 01:28:07,160 --> 01:28:08,640 They don't want to go out and do that hard work. 1870 01:28:09,120 --> 01:28:11,080 So they've, they've degraded what used to be really 1871 01:28:11,080 --> 01:28:13,240 prestigious and it doesn't matter if it's your badge or my 1872 01:28:13,240 --> 01:28:16,440 badge or any other's 'cause that's, that's crazy to me. 1873 01:28:17,960 --> 01:28:22,280 Yeah, it's we, you know, the IRS actually tried to implement a, a 1874 01:28:22,480 --> 01:28:23,920 fitness standard wish they would. 1875 01:28:24,520 --> 01:28:25,840 And they tried to make everyone do it. 1876 01:28:25,840 --> 01:28:29,200 And it it was, it was a panic. There was a panic across the 1877 01:28:29,200 --> 01:28:30,120 agency. Love that. 1878 01:28:30,160 --> 01:28:32,880 Panic. Suddenly everyone trying to get 1879 01:28:32,880 --> 01:28:35,800 in shape, which, and I was, I was one of the physical fitness 1880 01:28:35,800 --> 01:28:37,840 instructors. So they, and so they, first of 1881 01:28:37,840 --> 01:28:40,800 all, they spend a lot. The government spends tons of 1882 01:28:40,800 --> 01:28:43,840 money sending you to training. So I've gone to, I've gone to 1883 01:28:43,840 --> 01:28:46,000 training for two weeks to be a physical fitness instructor. 1884 01:28:46,000 --> 01:28:49,120 Then they had to change. So they did a million millions 1885 01:28:49,120 --> 01:28:51,400 of dollars they spent doing a study because they couldn't just 1886 01:28:51,400 --> 01:28:54,360 implement like the standards of a mile and a half, do it in 10 1887 01:28:54,360 --> 01:28:56,640 minutes or whatever. They had to do a study showing 1888 01:28:56,760 --> 01:28:59,760 why we and they had to be job based tasks, right? 1889 01:28:59,760 --> 01:29:02,000 So we came up with these ridiculous system of testing. 1890 01:29:02,400 --> 01:29:06,080 They sent me back to Flexi for another week to learn how to 1891 01:29:06,080 --> 01:29:08,360 implement this stuff. We started implementing this. 1892 01:29:08,360 --> 01:29:11,880 Of course, lots of people started failing and then 1893 01:29:11,880 --> 01:29:16,040 eventually it just evaporated. Just goes away because it's just 1894 01:29:16,040 --> 01:29:20,120 not going to work the most, I think the most important maybe 1895 01:29:20,120 --> 01:29:22,440 even single line that you said. And it's something I also 1896 01:29:22,440 --> 01:29:24,720 believe it's something I've come to independently and and I I 1897 01:29:24,720 --> 01:29:27,520 want to just maybe close out on that thought. 1898 01:29:28,120 --> 01:29:33,040 You said people are policy and you said that you don't have to 1899 01:29:33,040 --> 01:29:35,480 tell the people you hire if they're already ideologically 1900 01:29:35,480 --> 01:29:38,040 driven, what to do because they already know what to do. 1901 01:29:38,480 --> 01:29:40,320 And you gave the example of Lois Lerner. 1902 01:29:40,320 --> 01:29:43,040 But that's across the entire government right now. 1903 01:29:43,040 --> 01:29:46,360 That's what I when I say deep state or we say deep state, I 1904 01:29:46,360 --> 01:29:49,680 think of administrative state. I think it's you chose people 1905 01:29:49,680 --> 01:29:52,520 that meet your criteria and they don't need to be told they're 1906 01:29:52,520 --> 01:29:54,480 automatically going to be activists for that thing. 1907 01:29:54,480 --> 01:29:56,760 Is that something you see across all government? 1908 01:29:57,320 --> 01:29:59,040 Yes. And you got to realize all 1909 01:29:59,040 --> 01:30:01,400 governments working together, it's not like IRS is doing their 1910 01:30:01,400 --> 01:30:02,960 own thing and FBI is doing their own thing. 1911 01:30:02,960 --> 01:30:07,160 No, like the the heads of these agencies are meeting, they're 1912 01:30:07,160 --> 01:30:10,800 all part of a bigger FBI, part of the Department of Justice, 1913 01:30:10,800 --> 01:30:12,720 which is giving them their marching orders. 1914 01:30:13,440 --> 01:30:15,840 IRS is part of Department of Treasury. 1915 01:30:16,080 --> 01:30:18,440 And it's not like these these are all siloed out. 1916 01:30:18,440 --> 01:30:20,280 Sure, they have their own individual missions, but they're 1917 01:30:20,280 --> 01:30:22,080 all part of task forces. They're all, they're all 1918 01:30:22,080 --> 01:30:25,800 meeting, they all have their heads, which we, which report 1919 01:30:25,880 --> 01:30:28,400 to, you know, the, the secretaries of these, of these 1920 01:30:28,400 --> 01:30:32,120 various bureaus like it, it's common across it. 1921 01:30:32,120 --> 01:30:34,080 And it's going to be, you know, it's going to be shared. 1922 01:30:34,080 --> 01:30:36,160 It's not like you can say, oh, the IRS is the problem. 1923 01:30:36,160 --> 01:30:39,560 You could create some other agency tomorrow to replace the 1924 01:30:39,560 --> 01:30:41,240 IRS. You're going to have the exact 1925 01:30:41,240 --> 01:30:43,760 same problems. It it's not going to change. 1926 01:30:43,760 --> 01:30:46,280 It's, it's because it's, it's all the way across in 1927 01:30:46,280 --> 01:30:47,760 government. And so a lot of people are like, 1928 01:30:47,760 --> 01:30:48,960 oh, you need to get rid of the IRS. 1929 01:30:48,960 --> 01:30:51,520 Well, you're, you have to have someone that collects taxes 1930 01:30:51,520 --> 01:30:54,000 somewhere. And if you think the IRS is bad, 1931 01:30:54,000 --> 01:30:58,000 you should see the Franchise Tax Board of California like they're 1932 01:30:58,000 --> 01:31:01,440 terrible, like they are, they are much worse than the IRS. 1933 01:31:01,800 --> 01:31:04,000 And so you're, you're going to have agencies that have to do 1934 01:31:04,000 --> 01:31:07,640 some of this stuff. And when you put in the people 1935 01:31:07,760 --> 01:31:10,840 that that creates the policy in these agencies and you could 1936 01:31:10,840 --> 01:31:13,840 destroy the agencies. And but if what soon as you 1937 01:31:13,840 --> 01:31:16,400 plant them with something else, with the same people and these 1938 01:31:16,400 --> 01:31:19,360 people move around inside government because that's what 1939 01:31:19,360 --> 01:31:21,800 they, they build up their resumes and they get these SES 1940 01:31:21,800 --> 01:31:23,760 positions and then they go to private sector. 1941 01:31:23,760 --> 01:31:26,000 And then the private sector comes in and does takes over 1942 01:31:26,000 --> 01:31:29,560 these, you know, these heads of treasury, the Treasury Secretary 1943 01:31:29,560 --> 01:31:32,240 and stuff like that. And then they go back like this. 1944 01:31:32,240 --> 01:31:34,080 It's sort of a incestuous things. 1945 01:31:34,400 --> 01:31:37,160 And as long as you have that, you're going to have the same 1946 01:31:37,160 --> 01:31:39,840 policies throughout the government, no matter what 1947 01:31:40,160 --> 01:31:42,640 agency you're in or you're talking about whether you get 1948 01:31:42,640 --> 01:31:44,920 rid of that, that because someone's going to take that 1949 01:31:44,920 --> 01:31:47,040 function. You know, someone's going to, 1950 01:31:47,920 --> 01:31:50,960 you know, collect taxes. Someone's going to the IRS has 1951 01:31:51,200 --> 01:31:54,680 warehouses, like a warehouse the size of a city block. 1952 01:31:55,160 --> 01:31:58,000 It's like an airplane hangar. And there's just people. 1953 01:31:58,040 --> 01:32:03,080 It's like a Costco. It's just people cubicles, just 1954 01:32:03,080 --> 01:32:05,680 imagine little cubicles of people, hundreds of people. 1955 01:32:05,880 --> 01:32:08,720 And all they do is open the mail like you, you're going to have 1956 01:32:08,720 --> 01:32:10,280 people that do that. So you're going to have an 1957 01:32:10,280 --> 01:32:12,480 agency that does these basic functions and they're going to 1958 01:32:12,480 --> 01:32:14,800 be led by somebody. And as long as those people are 1959 01:32:14,800 --> 01:32:18,400 led by these government agencies, and I think normal 1960 01:32:18,400 --> 01:32:22,160 people don't want to live in DC and, and work there, it's very, 1961 01:32:22,160 --> 01:32:24,680 you know, it changes you too, like the farther you are from 1962 01:32:24,680 --> 01:32:27,040 the field. I, I felt that as a supervisor 1963 01:32:28,200 --> 01:32:29,600 and I was a supervisor in Houston. 1964 01:32:29,600 --> 01:32:33,080 And then even as a program manager, you, you start thinking 1965 01:32:33,080 --> 01:32:34,880 differently because your priorities are different and 1966 01:32:34,880 --> 01:32:38,640 you, the longer you're away from the field, it changes you. 1967 01:32:39,440 --> 01:32:41,680 It, it just does. And so I think when you're in 1968 01:32:41,680 --> 01:32:44,680 executive management, and these guys are in executive management 1969 01:32:44,680 --> 01:32:48,200 for longer than they've been an agent in many cases, I was 1970 01:32:48,200 --> 01:32:52,720 promoted to a supervisor after like five years, six years, 1971 01:32:53,080 --> 01:32:55,440 maybe it was like 8 years as a, as an agent. 1972 01:32:56,520 --> 01:32:59,640 And if I had stayed in the management track, I would have 1973 01:32:59,640 --> 01:33:03,840 been in management far, far longer than I was an agent. 1974 01:33:04,360 --> 01:33:05,920 And you forget it and things change. 1975 01:33:06,160 --> 01:33:09,840 And and that's, you know, that's ubiquitous across government and 1976 01:33:09,840 --> 01:33:12,720 that's how the government policies come into a into being. 1977 01:33:14,520 --> 01:33:17,240 It's really important because it's not just that one agency 1978 01:33:17,240 --> 01:33:19,120 that people keep seeing. Everybody wants to call out my 1979 01:33:19,120 --> 01:33:21,960 former agency, my ex-girlfriend, which is totally valid, but 1980 01:33:22,000 --> 01:33:23,760 every single one of them have the exact same thing. 1981 01:33:24,120 --> 01:33:27,520 Is there a, is there a cross the board solution that you see 1982 01:33:27,520 --> 01:33:29,920 that's easy or are we just in for some bumpy, bumpy weather 1983 01:33:29,920 --> 01:33:30,840 coming in? We're going to get some 1984 01:33:30,840 --> 01:33:34,200 turbulence. The only solution is really a 1985 01:33:34,240 --> 01:33:39,360 political one, like you're going to have to remove these people 1986 01:33:39,360 --> 01:33:42,800 from these positions and change the policies and, and restrict 1987 01:33:43,680 --> 01:33:45,880 you still start restricting the scope of government. 1988 01:33:45,960 --> 01:33:49,600 The more programs you have, the more government involvement 1989 01:33:49,600 --> 01:33:52,760 you're going to have. And you know, you, you create a 1990 01:33:52,760 --> 01:33:56,320 policy like the the IRS is, is a great example. 1991 01:33:56,360 --> 01:33:59,040 One of the things that we don't like that I didn't like was that 1992 01:33:59,040 --> 01:34:02,320 the IRS is basically, you know, they, they're handing out 1993 01:34:02,320 --> 01:34:05,480 entitlements, they're handing out, you know, welfare. 1994 01:34:06,000 --> 01:34:08,400 It's not simply bringing in taxes. 1995 01:34:08,400 --> 01:34:10,640 You're getting all sorts of credits that are given to 1996 01:34:10,640 --> 01:34:13,520 certain people. There's tax policies related to 1997 01:34:13,520 --> 01:34:17,680 certain to certain programs that they want, certain incentives. 1998 01:34:18,040 --> 01:34:22,760 There are, you know, we handed out the COVID money that's bad. 1999 01:34:23,360 --> 01:34:25,520 So the the more stuff that you have in the agency, there's 2000 01:34:25,520 --> 01:34:28,240 somebody has to administrate that and then there's going to 2001 01:34:28,240 --> 01:34:29,600 be fraud. So then somebody has to 2002 01:34:29,600 --> 01:34:33,160 investigate that and then you just create more and more and 2003 01:34:33,160 --> 01:34:35,720 more government. So I'm not sure what the 2004 01:34:35,720 --> 01:34:40,160 solution is in the short term. Long term, people need to 2005 01:34:40,160 --> 01:34:44,920 realize that less government means less intrusion. 2006 01:34:44,920 --> 01:34:48,080 And, and one of the reasons why I supported that as an agent is 2007 01:34:48,080 --> 01:34:52,520 because I felt that bigger government made my job less 2008 01:34:52,520 --> 01:34:56,120 special. Like I wanted to be an agent 2009 01:34:56,120 --> 01:35:00,000 because, and I built my whole life to be in law enforcement 2010 01:35:00,000 --> 01:35:03,200 because I thought that was like serving your country and, and 2011 01:35:03,200 --> 01:35:06,680 going after criminals. And the more people that I met 2012 01:35:06,680 --> 01:35:10,680 that did this job, the less special I felt like the more 2013 01:35:10,920 --> 01:35:14,640 crazy laws that we investigated, the less special I felt like I, 2014 01:35:14,640 --> 01:35:18,000 I thought my position should be rare and that it should be 2015 01:35:18,360 --> 01:35:20,200 something a, a huge accomplishment. 2016 01:35:20,680 --> 01:35:23,600 And the the more of them that you have, like in investigating 2017 01:35:23,600 --> 01:35:25,560 all sorts of stuff, the less special it felt to me. 2018 01:35:26,280 --> 01:35:28,960 And so I think limited government, you know, if 2019 01:35:28,960 --> 01:35:32,920 everyone's the sheriff, then being the sheriff is not, is not 2020 01:35:32,920 --> 01:35:36,240 a special thing. So limited government I think is 2021 01:35:36,240 --> 01:35:38,840 better all around. It's better, it's better for law 2022 01:35:38,840 --> 01:35:44,000 enforcement. And you know, I also tell 2023 01:35:44,000 --> 01:35:47,400 people, look, if you, if you make a sheriff, you if you pass 2024 01:35:47,400 --> 01:35:50,520 a law, someone has to enforce it. 2025 01:35:51,080 --> 01:35:52,920 And ultimately that's going to be the police. 2026 01:35:53,240 --> 01:35:57,640 Police don't want to do that. So, you know, police really 2027 01:35:58,120 --> 01:36:01,360 like, I wanted to investigate actual crime, like actual 2028 01:36:01,360 --> 01:36:04,400 criminals. I think at least it used to be 2029 01:36:04,400 --> 01:36:05,920 that that's what police really wanted to do. 2030 01:36:05,920 --> 01:36:08,240 They didn't want to do all these brace measures. 2031 01:36:08,240 --> 01:36:10,080 I got who wants to give out seat belt tickets? 2032 01:36:11,960 --> 01:36:14,920 But when you're incentivizing that the federal government 2033 01:36:14,920 --> 01:36:17,040 actually incentivizes police departments to do that. 2034 01:36:17,040 --> 01:36:19,920 But you know, then police wind up having to do it. 2035 01:36:19,920 --> 01:36:22,200 It changes their mentality. You know, you get comfortable, 2036 01:36:22,200 --> 01:36:24,560 you you want to keep your job, you start doing that stuff. 2037 01:36:25,160 --> 01:36:27,920 So you you have to reduce, you know, the number of laws and the 2038 01:36:27,920 --> 01:36:30,720 scope of government. And then, you know, those jobs 2039 01:36:30,880 --> 01:36:34,280 will will be fewer, but they'll also be better. 2040 01:36:36,000 --> 01:36:39,480 It's very insightful and I hadn't thought of it that way, 2041 01:36:39,520 --> 01:36:41,040 so I appreciate that sort of insight. 2042 01:36:41,080 --> 01:36:42,960 It takes a lot of time thinking about things that are the 2043 01:36:42,960 --> 01:36:45,240 problem to really come up with the the real novelty and then 2044 01:36:45,240 --> 01:36:47,200 also how it actually applies down the road. 2045 01:36:47,200 --> 01:36:49,720 Most people can't, they can just see, I hate this. 2046 01:36:50,040 --> 01:36:52,720 That's not a solution and it's not really a reason either. 2047 01:36:52,720 --> 01:36:54,880 So Aaron, I appreciate you spending that time get. 2048 01:36:55,280 --> 01:36:57,480 Rid of the federal government like you're going to get rid of 2049 01:36:57,480 --> 01:36:58,600 the FBI. There's going to be somebody 2050 01:36:58,600 --> 01:37:00,040 that does investigation. Sure. 2051 01:37:00,600 --> 01:37:04,600 Just stop getting rid of it. That sounds really good but 2052 01:37:04,640 --> 01:37:06,680 ultimately, well what about the ATF? 2053 01:37:07,000 --> 01:37:11,280 Or people don't know the EPA has their own CID so. 2054 01:37:11,400 --> 01:37:15,400 Get rid of all that too. Those ones I think we could 2055 01:37:15,400 --> 01:37:16,840 sacrifice. There's a pretty good reason for 2056 01:37:16,840 --> 01:37:18,040 it. That could be very, very small. 2057 01:37:18,160 --> 01:37:20,120 Make them very, very special. So there's only a few going 2058 01:37:20,120 --> 01:37:22,400 after big offenders. You're not doing Twitter as 2059 01:37:22,400 --> 01:37:23,680 much. Do you want people to follow you 2060 01:37:23,680 --> 01:37:26,280 somewhere and check in? Because I know you engage still. 2061 01:37:26,600 --> 01:37:29,000 Twitter quite a bit, but just not like I used to. 2062 01:37:29,040 --> 01:37:35,080 So I still and I do spaces with Leslie and Shipwreck and I I 2063 01:37:35,080 --> 01:37:37,800 just changed my focus to be a little bit more narrow, not out 2064 01:37:37,800 --> 01:37:39,920 of scope, but that's definitely where you should follow me is on 2065 01:37:39,920 --> 01:37:43,160 Twitter at Aaron Goggly is my handle. 2066 01:37:43,600 --> 01:37:46,120 I will throw that up on the screen here in the in the edit 2067 01:37:46,120 --> 01:37:47,520 and people will be able to see that. 2068 01:37:47,720 --> 01:37:49,200 Do you do a true social as well or no? 2069 01:37:50,040 --> 01:37:52,480 I do not. OK, just one social media and 2070 01:37:52,720 --> 01:37:54,080 that's the that's the only place I have. 2071 01:37:54,200 --> 01:37:57,000 Personal Instagram accounts that I use for like my kids 2072 01:37:57,000 --> 01:37:59,920 volleyball and stuff like that. So, but yeah, so you can 2073 01:38:00,240 --> 01:38:02,920 certainly if you are interested in sporting events in my kids 2074 01:38:02,920 --> 01:38:07,960 athletic career. I hate Instagram so much. 2075 01:38:08,240 --> 01:38:09,720 I can't even tell you how much I hate it. 2076 01:38:10,040 --> 01:38:12,640 I hate that I have it all right. Thanks for spending that. 2077 01:38:13,120 --> 01:38:14,960 Thanks for attending the time chatting with us about this. 2078 01:38:14,960 --> 01:38:16,800 I think there's some really good insight there and I think people 2079 01:38:16,800 --> 01:38:18,320 will go, hopefully we'll have another one of these chats. 2080 01:38:18,320 --> 01:38:20,200 And I look forward to doing a space with you too, because I I 2081 01:38:20,200 --> 01:38:23,880 like that measured approach. There's a very IRS nature. 2082 01:38:23,880 --> 01:38:26,200 Maybe that's the 25 years. Maybe you were like that to 2083 01:38:26,200 --> 01:38:28,480 begin with. There's a very methodical way 2084 01:38:28,480 --> 01:38:30,520 that you think through things. It's what I always thought about 2085 01:38:30,520 --> 01:38:32,240 your Twitter account to following that that thought 2086 01:38:32,240 --> 01:38:34,960 process. I appreciate that. 2087 01:38:34,960 --> 01:38:36,000 Yeah. Ask me anytime. 2088 01:38:36,000 --> 01:38:39,280 I'll be happy to be on Enjoy. I enjoy doing spaces too. 2089 01:38:39,360 --> 01:38:43,840 I really enjoy it. And that is our. 2090 01:38:43,840 --> 01:38:46,760 Show for today, ladies and gentlemen, thank you for joining 2091 01:38:46,760 --> 01:38:49,840 us for a little little chat, a little look behind the scenes of 2092 01:38:49,840 --> 01:38:51,920 what the IRS law enforcement end does. 2093 01:38:51,920 --> 01:38:54,560 As you guys know, not 87,000 agents are going to be armed. 2094 01:38:54,840 --> 01:38:57,200 Ones that are are probably a lot more like Aaron and more like 2095 01:38:57,200 --> 01:39:01,320 guys like Gary Shapley and Ziegler, the people you saw that 2096 01:39:01,320 --> 01:39:03,680 were testifying for the weaponization now almost a year 2097 01:39:03,680 --> 01:39:06,600 ago, folks that do it right. I don't know. 2098 01:39:06,680 --> 01:39:08,920 I'm less worried about the IRS than I am just about any of the 2099 01:39:08,920 --> 01:39:10,320 other agencies out there. Go figure. 2100 01:39:10,320 --> 01:39:12,440 If you guys want to support the program, give you one more 2101 01:39:12,440 --> 01:39:14,240 little sponsor read here, boom, there it is, it's 2102 01:39:14,240 --> 01:39:18,320 mypillow.com/kyle Kyle. Use promo code Kyle at checkout 2103 01:39:18,320 --> 01:39:20,600 for up to 50% off whatever you're interested in there, 2104 01:39:20,640 --> 01:39:23,320 whether it be pillows or towels or bedding, full mattresses, 2105 01:39:23,320 --> 01:39:25,960 mattress toppers and so on. You can support Mike Lindell and 2106 01:39:25,960 --> 01:39:28,440 support our program at the same time by going to 2107 01:39:28,440 --> 01:39:31,920 mypillow.com/kyle and we appreciate you guys doing that. 2108 01:39:31,920 --> 01:39:33,920 If you're in the market for it, make sure you're using our promo 2109 01:39:33,920 --> 01:39:36,200 code and we'll do that. Let's wrap the sucker up today 2110 01:39:36,480 --> 01:39:39,120 with a 5 star review from one of our great listeners and that 2111 01:39:39,120 --> 01:39:42,320 could be yours if you were willing to fill one out. 2112 01:39:42,320 --> 01:39:45,320 We're doing the experiment right now to see if we get past 957. 2113 01:39:45,760 --> 01:39:47,440 This comes in just a week ago or so. 2114 01:39:47,720 --> 01:39:53,320 This is from MB N ET69 AKA Mike B or Metal Mike saying Kyle 2115 01:39:53,320 --> 01:39:55,680 Seraphin is a true All Star patriot. 2116 01:39:55,680 --> 01:39:57,720 Five stars. I absolutely love the Kyle 2117 01:39:57,720 --> 01:40:00,400 Seraphin podcast. It's entertaining, amusing, 2118 01:40:00,400 --> 01:40:03,120 informative, and patriotic just to name a few descriptions. 2119 01:40:03,120 --> 01:40:04,680 Well, thank you for naming those few descriptions. 2120 01:40:04,680 --> 01:40:07,800 By the way, Mike. It says like others that came 2121 01:40:07,800 --> 01:40:10,760 over from the Dan Bongino show who plugged Kyle and still does 2122 01:40:10,760 --> 01:40:12,520 quite often. It was further affirmed when I 2123 01:40:12,520 --> 01:40:15,520 saw Kyle in police state. I listen on Apple or I watch on 2124 01:40:15,520 --> 01:40:17,840 Rumble every day. If you were an America First 2125 01:40:17,840 --> 01:40:20,320 Patriot who wants to hear the truth, you've come to the right 2126 01:40:20,320 --> 01:40:22,200 place. I look forward to Kyle reading 2127 01:40:22,200 --> 01:40:25,080 my interview if he has time. Cheers Patriot. 2128 01:40:25,080 --> 01:40:27,440 Well, in fact, we do of course have time for you Mike. 2129 01:40:27,440 --> 01:40:29,240 Thanks for filling it out. Thanks for taking the time to 2130 01:40:29,240 --> 01:40:32,400 type out a nice one and more importantly, thanks for 2131 01:40:32,400 --> 01:40:33,800 listening every single day. That's awesome. 2132 01:40:34,040 --> 01:40:35,240 We really do appreciate those kind of things. 2133 01:40:35,240 --> 01:40:37,400 That's what we're here for. I'm going to, I'm going to do a 2134 01:40:37,400 --> 01:40:39,280 slight pushback on there. I don't know if I'm America 2135 01:40:39,280 --> 01:40:41,120 first. I'm fairly confident at this 2136 01:40:41,120 --> 01:40:44,360 point I am America only. I do not care about anyone else 2137 01:40:44,520 --> 01:40:47,480 or any other company or country, and whatever else they're doing 2138 01:40:47,640 --> 01:40:51,000 is so far below that it's not even fair to call America first. 2139 01:40:51,000 --> 01:40:53,800 It is closer to only for me. That's it for us today, folks. 2140 01:40:53,800 --> 01:40:55,400 I hope you guys will support our sponsors. 2141 01:40:55,400 --> 01:40:57,800 I hope you support the channel by making sure that you have hit 2142 01:40:57,800 --> 01:40:59,880 a like button before it's over. Make sure you hit that thumbs up 2143 01:40:59,880 --> 01:41:01,560 wherever you're listening to it, wherever you're watching it. 2144 01:41:01,720 --> 01:41:03,840 Make sure you subscribe. If you're on Spotify, give us 2145 01:41:03,840 --> 01:41:05,840 one of those questions, comments or sarcastic remarks. 2146 01:41:06,000 --> 01:41:09,040 And you can also leave them on kyleserafin.com, which is on the 2147 01:41:09,040 --> 01:41:10,520 screen right now. Yeah, that's our website. 2148 01:41:11,000 --> 01:41:12,800 There's not a lot to it. I'm not a website guy. 2149 01:41:13,000 --> 01:41:15,040 I'm a former federal agent. I wanted to be a gunslinger. 2150 01:41:15,040 --> 01:41:16,280 I didn't want to be a podcast guy. 2151 01:41:16,280 --> 01:41:18,600 But God has different plans for all of us. 2152 01:41:18,600 --> 01:41:20,400 Those are the sponsors. You guys know how to use Kyle at 2153 01:41:20,400 --> 01:41:21,480 checkout for any of those places. 2154 01:41:21,600 --> 01:41:22,600 And don't forget our merch store. 2155 01:41:22,720 --> 01:41:26,440 We'll see you again tomorrow for Friendly Friday. 2156 01:41:26,800 --> 01:41:28,800 And I look forward to catching up with you and with Steve 2157 01:41:28,800 --> 01:41:32,320 Friend on at the same time. We'll see you at 0930 Eastern 2158 01:41:32,320 --> 01:41:34,000 Time. God bless you. 2159 01:41:34,560 --> 01:41:37,240 Thanks for listening to the Kyle Seraphin show, streamed live 2160 01:41:37,240 --> 01:41:40,320 weekdays on rumble.com/kyle Seraphin. 2161 01:41:40,400 --> 01:41:44,600 Follow Kyle on Twitter, Truth Social and Instagram at Kyle 2162 01:41:44,600 --> 01:41:45,320 Seraphin.