1 00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:06,000 Take a look behind the curtain with a real whistleblower, an 2 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:08,400 American patriot. Prepare to embrace the 3 00:00:08,400 --> 00:00:11,840 uncomfortable truth, because this program has no time for 4 00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:14,320 comforting lies. Here is civil liberties 5 00:00:14,320 --> 00:00:18,240 enthusiast, Second Amendment defender, and recovering FBI 6 00:00:18,240 --> 00:00:22,360 agent Kyle Sarah. Well hello my friends and 7 00:00:22,360 --> 00:00:23,560 welcome to the Kyle Seraphin Show. 8 00:00:23,560 --> 00:00:26,480 Today is Wednesday and it is March the 13th. 9 00:00:26,720 --> 00:00:30,400 We are midweek and we are mid interview cycle here. 10 00:00:30,400 --> 00:00:32,479 We've got a whole week full of interviews that you guys are 11 00:00:32,479 --> 00:00:33,960 going to enjoy. I think you guys will appreciate 12 00:00:33,960 --> 00:00:37,520 this one as well. Today's guest is going to be Ron 13 00:00:37,520 --> 00:00:40,040 Coleman. No, not Ronnie Coleman the 14 00:00:40,040 --> 00:00:43,720 bodybuilder. Although as he has told me, 15 00:00:43,720 --> 00:00:45,040 they've never been in the same room together. 16 00:00:45,040 --> 00:00:46,480 No one can prove they're not the same guy. 17 00:00:46,480 --> 00:00:48,320 We're going to have a good interview, a little discussion 18 00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:52,960 about about free speech, about religion. 19 00:00:53,480 --> 00:00:56,440 It's placed in the workplace, it's placed in your life as it 20 00:00:56,440 --> 00:00:57,760 sets your values. I think you guys are going to 21 00:00:57,760 --> 00:00:59,960 get a good kick out of this and let me start off with my 22 00:00:59,960 --> 00:01:03,480 sponsors so we can get them appropriately addressed. 23 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:07,080 Let's start off with something that is in the workplace and 24 00:01:07,080 --> 00:01:09,040 religion. There is catholicvote.org. 25 00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:11,720 They are our underwritingsponsorcatholicvote.org. 26 00:01:11,720 --> 00:01:14,120 You guys can get the loop by going to their main web page 27 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:17,720 there as you see below me on the screen, catholicvote.org. 28 00:01:17,720 --> 00:01:20,080 Type in your e-mail, type in your zip code and you will get 29 00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:22,760 the loop, which is great. You get it every, every day 30 00:01:22,760 --> 00:01:24,600 except Sunday. Which case you're getting a 31 00:01:24,600 --> 00:01:25,680 little bit of different kind of news. 32 00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:26,920 Hopefully. Hopefully you're getting the 33 00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:28,880 good news on that day folks, You can sign up for that. 34 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:30,520 If you don't want to sign up, you can always go to 35 00:01:30,600 --> 00:01:32,800 catholicvote.org/loop and you can just read it. 36 00:01:32,800 --> 00:01:36,600 But I encourage you, go ahead and sign up, get the best single 37 00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:39,680 one minute e-mail you can scan through and catch all the 38 00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:41,360 important headlines of the day. It will give you a good 39 00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:43,880 perspective on what's happening. You don't have to be Catholic to 40 00:01:43,880 --> 00:01:46,360 go to catholicvote.org. In fact, Catholic means 41 00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:50,240 universal and it is a a unified position for people who are in 42 00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:51,920 the fight for faith, family and freedom. 43 00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:53,840 They are an advocacy group and you guys can always donate to 44 00:01:53,840 --> 00:01:55,360 them too. If you guys want to support our 45 00:01:55,360 --> 00:01:58,240 show financially, that is a great way to do so Really 46 00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:00,160 appreciate them stepping in. And if you want to follow them 47 00:02:00,160 --> 00:02:02,800 on social media, it's at Catholic vote. 48 00:02:03,040 --> 00:02:04,800 Yeah, on all the major ones. All right. 49 00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:06,960 Let's also say thanks to my buddies over at Patriot Coolers. 50 00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:08,320 You guys know how to get there as well. 51 00:02:08,320 --> 00:02:11,000 Patriot coolers.com. That's the website. 52 00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:13,520 Kyle. Kyle is the promo code. 53 00:02:14,320 --> 00:02:15,640 Those are the two most important pieces. 54 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:19,200 Patriot coolers.com promo code Kyle and what can you find. 55 00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:23,280 You can find outstanding patriotic outdoor wear, outdoor 56 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:25,680 gear, things that will last. They actually do have hats and 57 00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:28,680 things like that and some some merch type stuff but you can 58 00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:31,360 also get a durable product like this one here. 59 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:33,680 I've got on the this is the one point OI tell you guys about 60 00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:36,400 this all the time. This is the one point O Tumblr. 61 00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:39,120 I got this in 2017 in October when they first started selling 62 00:02:39,120 --> 00:02:41,160 them publicly. And this sticker you see on 63 00:02:41,160 --> 00:02:47,160 there was in a case briefing in Anchorage, AK for a so-called 64 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:48,960 white supremacy case. It turned out to be BS. 65 00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:50,480 If you listen to the show, you already know what I'm talking 66 00:02:50,480 --> 00:02:52,240 about. And I had an agent ask me, 67 00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:53,800 should you even be in this briefing? 68 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:57,160 And I'm like that's an Air Force special operations sticker from 69 00:02:57,160 --> 00:02:59,160 one of my friends. He'd be shocked to know that 70 00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:01,240 he's a white supremacist as a Hispanic guy. 71 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:03,160 Anyhow, if you guys want to get something like that for 72 00:03:03,160 --> 00:03:06,160 yourself, something that will last, you know that 2017, that 73 00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:09,200 was kind of a long time ago and then mine have lasted for 6-7 74 00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:10,440 years. I've got new ones, I've got 75 00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:12,280 plenty of them. Highly recommend as a great 76 00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:15,520 company Patriot coolers.com promo code Kyle, Kyle. 10% off, 77 00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:17,120 50 bucks or more you get free shipping. 78 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:20,760 How about another patriot14patriots.com/kyle 79 00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:25,400 again, the number four patriots.com slash Kyle. 80 00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:28,440 That's the landing page. If you look just to my left, is 81 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:30,000 that this side? No, to my right. 82 00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:33,440 On this side you'll see all kinds of gadgets and gizmos they 83 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:34,920 sell. They've got power continuity. 84 00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:36,520 They've got solar generators that I've I'm. 85 00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:38,760 I'm so seriously getting. Here's my thing. 86 00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:40,920 I don't want to move it and I know we're going to move soon. 87 00:03:41,080 --> 00:03:43,560 But when we get into the new spot, solar generators on my 88 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:45,960 list, If you guys have not solved your power crises, which 89 00:03:45,960 --> 00:03:48,520 is to say that if the grid went down, you're going to have 90 00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:52,080 darkness in your home and no food, fix that. 91 00:03:52,080 --> 00:03:56,000 Go to fourpatriots.com/kyle. There are two choices in life, 92 00:03:56,040 --> 00:03:59,360 almost every situation. Prepare or repair. 93 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:01,560 Right now the United States is in the repair mode. 94 00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:02,800 That doesn't mean that you have to be. 95 00:04:02,920 --> 00:04:05,160 You can prepare against whatever's coming your way, 96 00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:08,200 whether it be a local or regional national crisis that 97 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:10,040 faces us. You'll be in better shape if you 98 00:04:10,040 --> 00:04:12,800 have calories, if you have calms, if you have continuity of 99 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:15,320 all the things that you are used to doing, even if it's a little 100 00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:17,560 bit less or so. Check out for the number four 101 00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:21,279 patriots.com/kyle and give them your support. 102 00:04:21,560 --> 00:04:23,520 They support us. Last but not least, certainly 103 00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:26,240 not least is contingencymedical.com. 104 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:29,320 Yet another option for those of you who want to prepare and 105 00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:31,360 hedge against kind of uncertainty in your life. 106 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:33,040 What can you get from contingency? 107 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:36,400 You can get yourself one of the pharmacy packs that allows you 108 00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:40,080 to hold six or seven different week long courses of antibiotics 109 00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:42,480 that will handle multiple contingencies for upper 110 00:04:42,480 --> 00:04:45,000 respiratory tract infections, for skin infections, for 111 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:48,320 infections from animal bites. If you can get it, they actually 112 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:51,600 will cover a broad spectrum of of urinary tract infection, 113 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:54,520 prostatitis, inflammation in all kinds of parts of the body and 114 00:04:54,520 --> 00:04:56,960 then also nausea and vomiting and diarrhea. 115 00:04:57,120 --> 00:04:59,680 Basically anything that will shut you down on a business trip 116 00:04:59,840 --> 00:05:03,080 or in a survival situation you can buy through this. 117 00:05:03,080 --> 00:05:05,240 You put your medical records into their website, you will 118 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:07,960 have access to a a licensed position in your state, and 119 00:05:07,960 --> 00:05:11,440 you'll get a real legitimate prescription that nobody will 120 00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:14,640 ask you about with your name on it on little little boxes and 121 00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:17,200 it's off to the corner. Over here you'll get a a guide 122 00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:19,120 to how to use them and you'll also have access to the 123 00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:22,440 telehealth prompt that they offer on contingencymedical.com. 124 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:27,440 Use promo code Kyle Kyle Again, promo code Kyle Kyle at 125 00:05:27,440 --> 00:05:28,600 checkout. That saves you 10 bucks. 126 00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:30,800 It's about a $300.00 pack. They have an ultimate 127 00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:33,080 contingency by the way, which includes all kinds of stuff, 128 00:05:33,080 --> 00:05:36,600 like if you need, if you're likely to to need EPI pens and 129 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:38,200 things like that. They will actually hook you up 130 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:39,120 with that. It's a little bit more 131 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:41,120 expensive, but a couple of different things that are coming 132 00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:42,640 down the way. Contingency medical.com. 133 00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:43,800 Definitely check them out. All right. 134 00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:46,520 We'll talk about the merch store at the end here. 135 00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:49,680 Without any further ado, let's bring on Mr. Ron Coleman. 136 00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:52,880 All right, folks. Today's guest, Ron Coleman. 137 00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:55,920 He needs a little bit of introduction because he's a 138 00:05:55,960 --> 00:05:59,840 lawyer, he's an activist, he's a podcast host, he's semi retired. 139 00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:03,520 It's very funny. He let me on his podcast and we 140 00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:05,240 had a lot of fun with it. It was actually probably one of 141 00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:08,120 the most fun podcasts that I've done, and I'm going to bring him 142 00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:11,520 on right now. Mr. Coleman, thanks for joining 143 00:06:11,720 --> 00:06:12,560 me. Well. 144 00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:13,840 It's a real pleasure to be here. Thank you. 145 00:06:14,240 --> 00:06:16,120 And your podcast is like like a play on words. 146 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:18,400 It's the culmination, which you think some people probably don't 147 00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:19,560 get, but I think my audience gets that. 148 00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:22,760 What do you think? I think your audience is well 149 00:06:22,760 --> 00:06:25,040 above average, although some of the smartest people in the world 150 00:06:25,040 --> 00:06:28,640 haven't gotten it because it sounds it's like other people's 151 00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:31,920 shows where they call themselves like a thing, a nation thing. 152 00:06:32,640 --> 00:06:35,640 But I never would pretend to think that there's a nation like 153 00:06:36,280 --> 00:06:38,480 that. I have a nation dedicated to me. 154 00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:44,520 I mean, who Who used to do that? It was that crazy old Jewish guy 155 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:49,440 who did radio. I don't remember his name now, 156 00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:51,600 but he had a he. Had a whole nation a followers. 157 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:53,400 Had a nation. I don't have a nation but 158 00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:56,480 culmination finishing. The fact of the matter is 159 00:06:56,480 --> 00:06:58,800 culmination isn't really a great concept either. 160 00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:02,440 It's it's the I wanted a pun because that's what I do. 161 00:07:03,320 --> 00:07:06,120 But what's the pun? I mean, why would I? 162 00:07:06,560 --> 00:07:09,240 Anyway, here I'm glad to be on. You're much more logically 163 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:11,000 entitled. I'm not sure that we're going to 164 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:11,920 do that. I think we're going to prove 165 00:07:11,920 --> 00:07:13,200 otherwise right now. Let me throw it on the screen 166 00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:14,920 here, folks. Culmination season three is 167 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:16,440 going on. You can find me on Season 2, and 168 00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:19,080 I had a lot of fun doing it. It was one of the more, I'm 169 00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:20,840 telling you, it's one of the more fun conversations that I've 170 00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:25,240 done in this space. I I, I as you know I used as an 171 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:30,400 excerpt you're comparison of leaving the FBI to breaking up 172 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:32,560 with a crazy girlfriend. It's a spot on. 173 00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:34,480 It's 100%. All right. 174 00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:35,560 I'm sure your listeners have heard. 175 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:36,520 Use it. Use it many times. 176 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:38,400 Yeah, we call the FBI my ex-girlfriend. 177 00:07:38,400 --> 00:07:41,600 They love that I it. It's the easiest way to quickly 178 00:07:41,600 --> 00:07:43,320 convey a point. And that's that's what we're all 179 00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:45,320 about, All right. So, as people can tell by your 180 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:48,160 voice, you're from just outside of Dallas. 181 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:51,640 And let's get into, let's tell, let's tell about who you are as 182 00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:52,160 a person. Because. 183 00:07:52,160 --> 00:07:55,920 It's really that obvious. That Texan blood, it shines 184 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:57,360 through. I could see it by the cowboy 185 00:07:57,360 --> 00:07:59,120 hat. Tell tell folks a little bit 186 00:07:59,120 --> 00:08:01,160 about kind of who you are as a person where you grew up. 187 00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:03,320 I want to kind of give them that lens before we get sarcastic. 188 00:08:04,320 --> 00:08:07,240 We have a long. We have this is long form. 189 00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:12,680 Yeah, as long as you. I am originally from Brooklyn, 190 00:08:12,680 --> 00:08:16,080 NY, the Brooklyn, NY section of Texas. 191 00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:22,040 Yes, and I went to the public schools in New York. 192 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:26,920 And that meant that my parents saw what was going on during one 193 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:32,159 of the earlier crises of urban left wing meltdown, which took 194 00:08:32,159 --> 00:08:34,760 place in the late 60s and early 70s. 195 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:41,600 So we participated in part of the Great White Flight leaving 196 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:46,120 the city in the early 70s and moved to New Jersey's first 197 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:51,440 planned unit development, which was called Twin Rivers in East 198 00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:54,560 Windsor, NJ. Was that a prestigious move? 199 00:08:54,560 --> 00:08:57,920 Did the white flight. It all depends on what you're 200 00:08:57,920 --> 00:08:59,880 used to. I mean, moving from a 201 00:08:59,880 --> 00:09:08,280 two-bedroom apartment to a four bedroom attached house to us was 202 00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:12,680 pretty much a Beverly Hillbillies guy in reverse. 203 00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:17,360 Like, wow, we have our own postage stamp sized backyard and 204 00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:23,800 you know, we we really, we were very, very and plus central air 205 00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:26,760 conditioning. Oh man, that was big time. 206 00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:31,160 We so we were, and and I lived there through my high school 207 00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:33,640 years. I attended Hightstown High 208 00:09:33,640 --> 00:09:38,680 School and then found myself quite unsurprised, quite 209 00:09:38,680 --> 00:09:42,560 surprisingly, at college at Princeton University. 210 00:09:44,560 --> 00:09:46,720 And I say, surprisingly not, because I didn't always know I 211 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:51,440 was the smartest guy in the world, but I didn't necessarily 212 00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:53,200 think that it would. I'm out that way. 213 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:54,680 Neither of my parents had attended college. 214 00:09:54,680 --> 00:09:59,120 My mother is an immigrant. She legal, of course. 215 00:09:59,680 --> 00:10:03,400 She came here from Cuba, her parents having left Poland. 216 00:10:03,400 --> 00:10:08,440 They're Polish Jews from who wisely left Poland in the 1930s. 217 00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:12,160 My father was an orphan who was raised by his grandmother on the 218 00:10:12,160 --> 00:10:14,600 upper on the Lower East Side of New York. 219 00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:18,840 And we were, you know, regular kind of people. 220 00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:22,560 So no one had gone to college and all of a sudden I'm in this 221 00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:26,640 unbelievable world and those days. 222 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:27,960 Too, right. I mean that's. 223 00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:32,040 Well, yeah, that was the long shot. 224 00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:34,680 That was the long shot. I was like everybody else. 225 00:10:34,680 --> 00:10:41,480 I was prepared to go to Penn if I had to, you know, But I I sold 226 00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:45,400 him a bill of goods and but apparently I had a great time in 227 00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:48,880 college, learned of some stuff, but mostly had a great time. 228 00:10:49,640 --> 00:10:55,160 I was a radio. DJI was, you know, a singer, a 229 00:10:55,160 --> 00:10:59,440 dancer, a writer, everything like I said. 230 00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:01,280 And sometimes I went to the library, not too much. 231 00:11:01,880 --> 00:11:04,200 Did you have a bar that was called the library outside of 232 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:05,360 Princeton? Is that a thing there? 233 00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:09,160 No, we oh, so people could say to their parents, if I'm in, I'm 234 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:11,080 at the library. Yeah, this was a big thing. 235 00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:12,520 So they imported that. There must be one. 236 00:11:12,520 --> 00:11:14,440 Maybe outside of Yale. They had one of those where I 237 00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:16,960 went to school in Oklahoma and I, you know, you could go to the 238 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:19,960 library, you could tell your wife if you were a grad student 239 00:11:19,960 --> 00:11:21,120 or whatever, and you'd be like, no, I'm. 240 00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:22,880 I'm at the library grading papers. 241 00:11:22,880 --> 00:11:24,320 We did great papers. We just had beer. 242 00:11:24,560 --> 00:11:29,720 Well, keep in mind, in my day there was, there wasn't the kind 243 00:11:29,720 --> 00:11:33,520 of I graduated in 1985. So there were no cell phones. 244 00:11:34,840 --> 00:11:38,440 Like if your parents heard from you once a week from the phone 245 00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:41,320 in your room, that was considered to be respectable. 246 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:44,360 OK, So what wasn't so much they were calling you and wondering 247 00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:49,040 where you were, you know? But I went on to law school at 248 00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:52,960 Northwestern University in Chicago, worked in a bunch of 249 00:11:53,520 --> 00:11:58,520 law firms of different sizes, none of which really was a very, 250 00:11:59,280 --> 00:12:02,480 very good match for me because the bigger the firm, the worse 251 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:06,120 of a match. I am a little bit of an 252 00:12:06,120 --> 00:12:08,320 out-of-the-box guy, but I'm a litigator. 253 00:12:08,920 --> 00:12:18,000 I developed an interest in trademark law and ended up 254 00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:22,560 getting involved in a lot of very cool trademark law cases 255 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:26,280 and also in free speech. And in fact, part of what I had 256 00:12:26,760 --> 00:12:32,640 sold Princeton on was that I had been involved in the writing and 257 00:12:32,640 --> 00:12:35,360 publication of the of an underground newspaper, such as 258 00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:42,320 it was an underground mimeograph newspaper in high school. 259 00:12:43,040 --> 00:12:46,840 And so I was very interested in free speech and censorship, and 260 00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:52,120 also in in brands, and I got a little bit more and more into 261 00:12:52,120 --> 00:12:54,600 speech, and especially when the Internet was invented. 262 00:12:56,480 --> 00:12:59,320 By Al. By Al Gore, and I remember it 263 00:12:59,560 --> 00:13:02,440 very clearly. I remember him rolling that out, 264 00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:09,240 and I began to see on the Internet from a business 265 00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:16,040 perspective, how intellectual property laws such as copyright 266 00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:19,880 and trademark in particular, were being used as a way to shut 267 00:13:19,880 --> 00:13:24,840 down competition and also to shut down wrong think. 268 00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:31,040 So I got a little bit more and more involved in that sort of 269 00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:32,880 stuff. And ultimately, I had the 270 00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:35,880 experience of appearing before the United States Supreme Court 271 00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:41,120 in a case called Mattel versus Tam, which was a perfect fusion 272 00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:44,280 of trademark law and free speech. 273 00:13:44,280 --> 00:13:49,800 In which the United States Supreme Court affirmed A ruling 274 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:55,680 that we had secured from the US Circuit Court for the Federal 275 00:13:55,680 --> 00:13:58,920 Court for the Federal Circuit, US Circuit Court for the Federal 276 00:13:58,920 --> 00:14:05,040 Circuit, to the effect the US government could not refuse to 277 00:14:05,680 --> 00:14:13,040 register a trademark on the ground that it was disparaging. 278 00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:19,320 Because that just don't cut it. Under modern First Amendment 279 00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:21,000 law. You can't. 280 00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:25,200 Government can't decide what points of view it will endorse 281 00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:26,640 and which ones it will not endorse. 282 00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:29,240 Trademark registration is a ministerial act. 283 00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:36,080 If you do XY and Z, use a trademark in commerce and 284 00:14:36,080 --> 00:14:40,160 Interstate commerce, and it's really legitimately entitled to 285 00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:44,720 be recognized as a trademark, Fields don't matter, and that 286 00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:46,680 was the rule. That's that's a very modern take 287 00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:48,440 on it. The fields don't matter And yet 288 00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:51,000 isn't it interesting that a lot of the stuff is coming back into 289 00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:53,440 view because we keep seeing it seems like the government is 290 00:14:53,440 --> 00:14:57,240 coming in with a either a hand on the scale or they have 291 00:14:57,640 --> 00:14:58,880 they're they're looking for an outcome. 292 00:14:59,800 --> 00:15:01,880 One of the guys that I I talked to all the time, Bill Shipley 293 00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:03,800 talks about the government is supposed to remain agnostic. 294 00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:05,640 That's really the purpose of government. 295 00:15:05,640 --> 00:15:07,720 It's not supposed to have any of those fields as you said. 296 00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:09,880 How interesting is it? But what year was that, that 297 00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:13,720 Supreme Court ruling? 20/16/2017 was the Supreme Court 298 00:15:13,760 --> 00:15:14,680 rule. OK. 299 00:15:14,680 --> 00:15:17,080 And then as you've seen that kind of roll forward and some of 300 00:15:17,080 --> 00:15:20,840 the other sort of infringements in that space, did you start off 301 00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:23,120 as a conservative guy? Is that where you were in the 302 00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:24,920 household? Is that your, you know, at a 303 00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:26,480 young age was your dissident, you know? 304 00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:29,520 You know that famous expression that is attributed to Winston 305 00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:31,440 Churchill, though? Nobody knows that he actually 306 00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:34,000 said it. You know, if you're a young man 307 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:37,360 and you've never been a liberal, you have no heart. 308 00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:42,520 And if you're an older man and then you never and you're not a 309 00:15:42,520 --> 00:15:44,160 Conservative, you don't have a brain. 310 00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:51,440 I never had a heart. I was like the guy from what was 311 00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:53,600 the What was the show? What was that show? 312 00:15:57,160 --> 00:15:59,400 How can I? I didn't really actually watch 313 00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:02,720 it. But there was family something. 314 00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:08,520 Something. Family ties, yeah, where they 315 00:16:08,520 --> 00:16:11,800 had a son who was, you know, this conservative and the rest 316 00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:13,120 of the family was a bunch of hippies. 317 00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:15,280 Right. So I was, I was always that guy. 318 00:16:15,280 --> 00:16:18,000 And that was despite the fact that I grew up in, you know, a 319 00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:20,640 fairly, I mean my parents were not particularly ideological, 320 00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:27,480 but I did attend Jewish Labor Bund summer camp for six years. 321 00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:30,560 You know, this was before I was, I became religious. 322 00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:37,200 I I became an observant Jew. I decided to step up my 323 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:40,320 religious observance after college and before law school. 324 00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:45,920 So and and when I did that one Orthodox friend who I'd had in 325 00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:48,360 college was actually was my roommate and his mother 326 00:16:48,520 --> 00:16:52,480 introduced me to my wife. Later I said, well, now you make 327 00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:54,520 sense because before you didn't really make a lot of sense. 328 00:16:54,520 --> 00:16:59,320 You had all these right wing views, but you you weren't. 329 00:16:59,800 --> 00:17:05,560 You didn't really have the true theological basis for it. 330 00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:08,880 And the thing my problem was that I didn't really understand 331 00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:13,680 that a Jewish person, like there aren't really different kinds of 332 00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:18,839 Jewish obligations to God. God says Jewish people, here's 333 00:17:18,839 --> 00:17:20,839 what you have to do. Can't eat this. 334 00:17:20,839 --> 00:17:23,800 You got to eat that, got to get up in the morning, you got to go 335 00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:27,280 to say your prayers and that it that's that's for everybody. 336 00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:30,440 So I never wanted to displease God. 337 00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:33,040 So can we. Can we go down that road a 338 00:17:33,040 --> 00:17:35,520 little bit? And here's why I say that in the 339 00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:39,560 in the Northeast, people are very familiar with sort of 340 00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:42,880 culturally Jewish people and then religiously Jewish people. 341 00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:46,720 Where I grew up in Texas, there are no Jewish people that we are 342 00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:47,880 aware of. I think there's in Houston 343 00:17:47,880 --> 00:17:50,000 there, there's some now, but not that anybody was really 344 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:52,680 understood. So my first real big experience 345 00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:54,440 with this was my wife who is from Brooklyn as well. 346 00:17:55,040 --> 00:17:57,840 She's her buddies were a lot of more Jewish guys and they come 347 00:17:57,840 --> 00:18:00,360 down and they would talk about Jewish stuff like at a bar in 348 00:18:00,360 --> 00:18:02,920 Austin, TX and they're like doing this talk back and forth 349 00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:06,240 this New York Jewish thing and and I'm like guys knock it off 350 00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:07,720 like nobody here knows what you're talking about and you 351 00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:10,800 just seem weird like this is not the this is not the place for 352 00:18:10,800 --> 00:18:12,800 this and they're doing this thing he's like look at you Jewy 353 00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:15,040 knows like look at you like everyone knows what's going on 354 00:18:15,040 --> 00:18:18,360 in your head and I'm going this is Texas, America, man. 355 00:18:18,360 --> 00:18:19,560 Like nobody has the concept of it. 356 00:18:19,560 --> 00:18:21,920 So I'd love to go down that rabbit hole a little bit. 357 00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:25,240 Actually, and I'm the best person in the world to go to go 358 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:28,960 down it with you because I I have thought about this a lot 359 00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:31,320 and I've written on the topic and I and I. 360 00:18:31,320 --> 00:18:35,600 And one of the things that I consider to be my job on social 361 00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:41,640 media is to acquaint Americans with the what we might call the 362 00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:47,680 21st century version of Orthodox Jews who are conservative. 363 00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:52,680 You know, people think of Jewish people as being liberal. 364 00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:56,960 And in fact Orthodox Jews are overwhelmingly politically 365 00:18:56,960 --> 00:19:01,240 conservative super family oriented. 366 00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:07,320 You know I I married off my youngest son although his twin 367 00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:12,720 who is 3 minutes older is still on the market at the and he's 368 00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:14,960 25. He's you know that that in our 369 00:19:15,040 --> 00:19:18,440 in our circles that's not that's not late but it's a little bit 370 00:19:18,440 --> 00:19:23,880 beyond the the median. I have more grandchildren than I 371 00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:26,600 would like to say because we are a little bit superstitious about 372 00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:28,560 that kind of thing. But I have two other married 373 00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:35,400 children, very family oriented, very traditional, and we are 374 00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:42,120 embarrassed to a large extent by the prevalence of Jewish people 375 00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:46,480 doing the wrong things and saying the wrong things. 376 00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:55,040 And, you know, we consider that to be a a fairly predictable 377 00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:59,520 result of what happens when you separate yourself from God. 378 00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:01,400 You're either 'cause you're pretty much either there, or 379 00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:04,760 you're not. And it's and people you know 380 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:09,000 aren't comfortable with that. But I'm not here to make people 381 00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:10,840 comfortable, Kyle. There's no reason. 382 00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:12,240 Yeah. I mean, and you know, what's 383 00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:14,720 interesting too is that I think this is the time when that is 384 00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:16,680 going to be the most relevant to most folks. 385 00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:20,840 We're seeing this, this, this sort of there's been a soft and 386 00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:24,720 squishy culture in America for the last maybe 30 years, maybe 387 00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:26,320 40 years. I don't know where it got softer 388 00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:28,920 and squishier, where everything was OK And if you think it, it's 389 00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:30,200 fine and all this kind of nonsense. 390 00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:33,000 And then it got like, like the hard way has always been the way 391 00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:34,880 that people have sought out. At least people at principle 392 00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:36,600 have always looked for something like what's difficult, what's 393 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:38,240 being asked to me, How do I achieve that? 394 00:20:38,360 --> 00:20:41,200 There's a reason why the Navy Seals recruit and most people 395 00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:43,160 don't become Navy Seals. They become dudes who like chip 396 00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:45,800 paint on a battleship. You know, finding things that. 397 00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:47,120 Are. I don't think we even do that 398 00:20:47,120 --> 00:20:48,160 anymore. Do we not? 399 00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:49,120 We have somebody else we have like. 400 00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:52,520 Like, have you know, have you seen these pictures of U.S. 401 00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:58,600 Navy ships with rust on them? In history, the US Navy has 402 00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:01,640 never sailed around with rusty ships. 403 00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:03,280 We don't do that anymore. We have. 404 00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:04,440 More drag Queens than we need, though. 405 00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:07,080 That's right, DEI. Is, is, is job one. 406 00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:08,600 Yeah. But yes, you're right. 407 00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:11,520 You're look, you have to find a mission. 408 00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:15,360 You have to. If you go through life floating, 409 00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:23,240 floating through it without meaning and without an uphill, 410 00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:27,880 some kind of uphill struggle, you might get by just fine. 411 00:21:28,360 --> 00:21:32,920 But you are. You're going to, if you if you 412 00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:36,320 even, I mean look, anyone who has children and raises them or 413 00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:38,280 as my wife insists you say, wears them. 414 00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:41,680 She got to do a better law school than I did, see. 415 00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:46,280 So I have to defer. If you were children, then you 416 00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:49,400 have had some uphill experience if you, if you make any effort 417 00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:53,680 whatsoever. But if you want to hand over to 418 00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:58,920 your children any kind of character, any kind of sense of 419 00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:03,280 what, what does a person achieve in this world? 420 00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:06,840 And then they've got to see you, you know, moving against the 421 00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:08,680 stream on something at some point. 422 00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:13,920 Now, you and I both know from past experiences that we've had 423 00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:18,800 we're mostly surrounded by people who are comfortable to be 424 00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:23,680 spectators and lurkers. And one of the things I do try 425 00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:26,240 to get to do, You know, often people say, Ron, what's the one 426 00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:27,680 thing we can do to change things? 427 00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:31,440 As if I'm some wise guy? Well, I'm old, right? 428 00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:35,000 And that gives you a certain amount of people, I think do 429 00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:38,240 need to do what you've done in your life, step up and be 430 00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:43,040 counted and be prepared to be separated from the herd. 431 00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:46,800 Because if you're not, first of all, when you do, besides 432 00:22:47,360 --> 00:22:52,720 possibly maybe achieving, you encourage other people to 433 00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:54,920 achieve, you encourage other people to step up. 434 00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:59,600 We do, you know, even those of us who look, I mean, I'm with 435 00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:02,760 Army, Dylan's law firm. Now that's a Group, A group of 436 00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:07,120 troublemakers, a group of people who are willing to put their 437 00:23:07,120 --> 00:23:10,880 names out there. Again, you're a you're a 438 00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:12,520 whistleblower. You know what I'm talking about. 439 00:23:13,120 --> 00:23:16,320 If you don't stand up for the truth, at some point you will 440 00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:18,200 have to compromise, like anyone who's ever worked in law 441 00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:20,080 enforcement. I mean, gosh, coming out of 442 00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:24,920 Brooklyn, you know, the the Serpico hearings were when I was 443 00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:27,440 very, very young. But everyone knew about that. 444 00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:32,480 The premise was if you work in the New York Police Department, 445 00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:38,040 you you're some kind of crook and you're either in on it. 446 00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:42,280 It's kind of like the the 1960s version of Training Day. 447 00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:45,760 You're either in on it. Everybody gets a taste or you 448 00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:47,840 make everybody else nervous. Right. 449 00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:51,000 And and and and if it's the latter, they're going to take 450 00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:52,240 care of you, they're going to take care of you. 451 00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:55,320 And that's how that you know if anything means anything to you. 452 00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:57,960 Now, the amazing thing is, in this world, there are a lot of 453 00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:00,120 conflicting. We've gone so far off where you 454 00:24:00,120 --> 00:24:04,000 wanted to talk about but we've got so many conflicting feedback 455 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:08,720 mechanisms and one of them is money and wealth. 456 00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:16,160 And I remember taking a reading a book in or part of a book in 457 00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:25,320 in college about in America we associate success with wealth. 458 00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:29,080 In other words, that that's how you you've made it when you've. 459 00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:29,760 Got. That's how we keep. 460 00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:35,040 Score. But in fact, that can I'd like 461 00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:38,320 to be wealthy. I'd like to, I just, I'd like to 462 00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:40,560 have a short experience of it just so I can say I've been 463 00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:47,120 there and done that. But if, besides the fact that it 464 00:24:47,120 --> 00:24:50,800 that it makes you soft, being wealthy makes you soft, very few 465 00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:59,760 people are able to retain that sense of mission and remain 466 00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:02,240 wealthy or continue to, you know, to earn money. 467 00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:05,040 And that's, which is what makes what Elon Musk has done in the 468 00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:07,840 last couple of years so extraordinary. 469 00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:11,360 And there are people, there aren't really committed people, 470 00:25:11,360 --> 00:25:17,280 who will stick their necks out, but you know, a lot of moving 471 00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:19,440 parts to this. No question about it. 472 00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:22,880 The the original spot that I wanted to kind of hone in on, 473 00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:26,520 you said at some point you decided that you were going to 474 00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:28,640 be an observant Jew. Yeah, and. 475 00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:30,760 And I don't think that's disconnected from anything we 476 00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:32,360 were just talking about there, but at some point. 477 00:25:32,360 --> 00:25:33,640 No, no. You may actually agree the 478 00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:36,800 decision connected. Yeah, let's kind of hone in on 479 00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:39,200 what that So you were your family members, were they not 480 00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:40,800 observant or were they not particularly? 481 00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:46,560 They weren't so my like, like most people my age, I'm 60. 482 00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:57,720 I I had grandparents whose own grandparents and and parents 483 00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:01,200 were religiously observant. This was true of most people in 484 00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:04,440 East, most Jews in Eastern Europe 100 years ago. 485 00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:08,760 Then there was a massive dislocation that took place as a 486 00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:12,440 result of World War One, social dislocation as well as 487 00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:17,520 geographic and economic. A great deal of, you know, 488 00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:22,200 communities that for hundreds and hundreds of years had been 489 00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:26,280 insular and who did not expect to have any kinds of rights. 490 00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:29,840 The combination of the experiences of World War One and 491 00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:33,880 the changes in politics and and regimes, as well as the 492 00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:37,600 influence of the Enlightenment from Western Europe finally 493 00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:41,000 finding its way into Eastern Europe and the Scientific 494 00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:44,120 Revolution resulted in people of faith. 495 00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:49,600 You know, a traditionally faithful community losing its 496 00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:54,960 faith and going, going in the direction that Jews in Western 497 00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:58,120 Europe had already gone 100 years earlier. 498 00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:05,240 So by the time my grandparents were raising children, they were 499 00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:09,040 not observant. They spoke Yiddish at home, 500 00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:17,400 Judeo, German, that was that was their idea of how to ethnically 501 00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:20,920 realize. In other words, it was a very 502 00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:24,640 clear thing to to people like my grandparents that of course were 503 00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:27,720 Jewish. Of course, of course I'm a Jew. 504 00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:31,360 Not only that, of course I'm a Jew. 505 00:27:31,360 --> 00:27:34,320 And I and I and I'm very proud of it because it makes me 506 00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:39,240 special somehow. That was just baked into them. 507 00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:43,440 This is also food. This is style of speaking. 508 00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:45,000 These are valves. There's all that. 509 00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:47,400 But that was kind of cultural. I mean, again, in my, in my 510 00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:50,920 grandparents, they, they they've, by the time I'm born, 511 00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:56,200 they're living in Brooklyn by way of Havana. 512 00:27:56,760 --> 00:28:00,040 Like they've had plenty. What a wild way. 513 00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:02,560 Yeah, right. They've had plenty of 514 00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:05,600 opportunity to assimilate. But they did a very poor job of 515 00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:08,800 it because, yes, they're Yiddish speakers and my grandmother 516 00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:11,840 cooks what her mother cooked. So yes, you have this kind of 517 00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:15,720 cultural, but by the time. So here, now, let's Fast forward 518 00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:19,720 20 years. I'm now in Princeton, OK? 519 00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:26,160 And I'm a member of the Tower Club and I'm going out with the 520 00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:30,920 daughter of the Unitarian minister who is the nicest, 521 00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:33,280 finest person I ever met in my life. 522 00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:41,920 And yet I know that we can never get married. 523 00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:45,440 But I'm also saying to myself, but I'm like my grandparents, 524 00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:52,200 I'm not a bigot because I grew up in the 60s and the late 60s 525 00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:56,560 and I'm not prejudice against non Jewish people. 526 00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:01,840 And I I understand that our backgrounds are different. 527 00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:07,400 But what is it that makes me so certain that I have to raise a 528 00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:11,520 Jewish family and that to do so requires that I have a Jewish 529 00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:15,000 wife? And the thing about Princeton in 530 00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:18,480 particular, Princeton, and schools like it in particular, 531 00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:21,720 is that, as opposed to if I'd gone to Rutgers, my father tried 532 00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:27,440 to pay me off to go to Rutgers, he'd buy me a car. 533 00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:30,440 If I go to Rutgers, they offered me, they offered me a 534 00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:33,440 scholarship, and it was a lot less expensive than Princeton, 535 00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:37,640 which of course was chump change compared, even adjusted for 536 00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:40,200 1980s money. I mean, the numbers were because 537 00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:43,000 the racket, it was a very different the most you could 538 00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:46,840 borrow in those days was $2500 for the government. 539 00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:52,760 That was it. In any event, these elite 540 00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:57,480 schools provide tremendous opportunities for assimilation. 541 00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:04,440 Now looking at me now as a 60 year old man, much less with a 542 00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:07,320 yarmulke and a beard, you might say, well, Ron, you would never 543 00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:09,840 have passed anyway. Who do you think you're kidding? 544 00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:14,480 And that might be true, but I But what I did see was that 545 00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:18,640 other Jewish students who were further up the assimilation 546 00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:21,840 curve than I was because their families had been in the in the 547 00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:27,080 US for multiple generations, not just 1 1/2 as mine had been. 548 00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:34,480 I saw what they how assimilated they were. 549 00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:38,560 And indeed, they didn't pass. They were still conspicuously 550 00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:42,320 Jewish to me. Interesting, Judar, I guess you 551 00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:43,440 know. Yeah, you can see it. 552 00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:45,720 Well, it's like, well, I'm talking about my, my, my wife's 553 00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:48,840 buddies who are down in Texas who are not practicing. 554 00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:51,600 They're not observant Jews and they're. 555 00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:54,240 But I would say that they are more obvious to us as New 556 00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:57,520 Yorkers than they are as Jews, which is, which is also a thing 557 00:30:57,520 --> 00:30:59,880 because the thing that is always, maybe This is why I have 558 00:30:59,880 --> 00:31:03,040 a fondest for talking to you. You remind me very much. 559 00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:05,200 I have two father in laws. I have my wife's stepfather and 560 00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:09,080 my wife's actual father. One of them is Italian, from 561 00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:12,200 Manhattan, grew up in Manhattan, raised his family in Brooklyn, 562 00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:14,040 now lives in Florida. Classic New York story. 563 00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:18,520 The other one married with my my mother-in-law at 16 years old 564 00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:20,720 when she was 16. My my wife was 16 rather And 565 00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:24,080 then the stepfather. They now live in Connecticut and 566 00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:27,640 he's non observant and Jewish. The two of them have many 567 00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:30,240 similarities because they're both New Yorkers and New 568 00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:32,440 Yorkers. The Italian guy is more Jewish, 569 00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:39,760 is more Jewish style, then you're Connecticut Jew. 570 00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:44,120 Maybe he's because, but he's he's like sort of an atheist and 571 00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:45,920 hates religion and so I don't know. 572 00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:46,760 I don't I don't know if that's true. 573 00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:48,440 Anyway, I I see you as kind of a. 574 00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:49,760 Religion. He's not an atheist. 575 00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:53,760 He actually, he's angry at God. He hates that he. 576 00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:56,040 Really hates to care about it. Have no attitude toward it 577 00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:57,720 whatsoever. But he's but he. 578 00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:00,600 Which I actually yeah, that may be the case. 579 00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:02,120 He he does have a strong feeling about it. 580 00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:03,680 It's it's the same thing we talk about guns. 581 00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:05,640 Listen, there's a lot of cognitive dissonance If you live 582 00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:07,600 in New York and you have thoughts that don't make any 583 00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:09,120 sense, like nobody should own a gun. 584 00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:11,080 But the police can't help you because you don't believe he 585 00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:12,760 grew up with that. Police are all corrupt attitude 586 00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:13,920 too. And I was like, yeah, that's why 587 00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:16,320 we have the Second Amendment. And he's like, no, you know, 588 00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:19,800 it's just it just doesn't jibe. But there is something, New 589 00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:23,600 York, about your character that is maybe more recognizable than 590 00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:25,560 specifically Jewish, minus the Yamaha. 591 00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:27,040 You take that off. And yeah, I don't know that 592 00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:28,320 everybody sees that, at least not a no. 593 00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:30,800 No, I agree with you 100%. You go around the country and 594 00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:34,800 you and you meet guys like me, you know, and you don't know 595 00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:38,040 anything about our religion. But yeah, this guy's in fact, 596 00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:42,520 when I was when I was registering, like we on the 597 00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:46,000 first day of law school, there was, I was talking to a friend 598 00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:50,160 of mine who was also going to Northwestern, who was from the 599 00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:54,360 Upper West Side of Manhattan. And there was a woman behind us 600 00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:57,280 who had spent her entire life in the Chicago area. 601 00:32:57,280 --> 00:33:00,880 And she was Jewish. And she was listening to us 602 00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:04,640 talk. And she finally said, you people 603 00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:07,920 from New York have opinions on absolutely everything. 604 00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:11,880 Yeah. Yeah. 605 00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:13,920 I guess that's. I guess that kind of nailed it. 606 00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:19,320 Yeah. Anyway, I in so in the so this 607 00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:23,920 raised my consciousness when I was in Princeton of what it 608 00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:26,160 means to be Jewish and what it means to assimilate. 609 00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:30,120 And that I really had priorities, that I didn't really 610 00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:33,000 understand where they came from, other than just a sort of 611 00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:37,760 cultural gut feeling. Which if that's all it is, I owe 612 00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:41,240 it to myself to transcend that. Because I, I, I Why should I be 613 00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:46,440 deprived of love or other opportunities just because of a 614 00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:51,240 sort of a cultural bias. Meanwhile, however, my roommate 615 00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:56,040 for three or four years that I was in school was a graduate of 616 00:33:56,040 --> 00:34:00,800 the high school division of Yeshiva University and he was a 617 00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:05,480 Sabbath observer. And not only was he not a sort 618 00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:09,719 of medieval figure, because of course growing up in New York 619 00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:12,480 and my my grandparents had a store on the Lower East Side. 620 00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:14,440 So I I knew what Orthodox Jews looked like. 621 00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:20,120 But this guy was modern and he majored in chemistry and he 622 00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:22,960 graduated summa cum laude from Princeton. 623 00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:25,360 I mean, so he's a super smart guy. 624 00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:28,520 He's keeping the Sabbath. So obviously I see you can do 625 00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:32,040 that and succeed. He's at Princeton, as I am. 626 00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:35,920 And you know, all this consciousness raising resulted 627 00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:41,560 in my choosing to go to a a summer program in Israel geared 628 00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:46,600 towards overripe fruits such as myself, or maybe I should say 629 00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:50,400 overripe fruit such as myself. Because that's one thing no one 630 00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:58,000 ever accused me of. And they they knew it, you know, 631 00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:03,320 that was what I was looking for. They they explained to me, they 632 00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:05,600 fill in gaps. And the fact is, my father, my 633 00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:09,520 late father, had did not have much of A Jewish education. 634 00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:16,200 But he made sure that my brother and I had a something with 635 00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:20,400 Jewish education because he wanted us to make our choices 636 00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:26,160 regarding observance from a base of knowledge rather than a base 637 00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:29,600 of ignorance. And the vast majority of people 638 00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:34,800 who are critical of religion have no real understanding of 639 00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:39,120 what religions teach, much less the specific religion that 640 00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:43,280 they're usually criticizing and and seldom their own religion. 641 00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:48,760 And that often can include people who have attended one of 642 00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:51,320 the some of the most anti Catholic people in the world are 643 00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:54,680 people who will start out by saying I went to Catholic school 644 00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:57,160 and. Yes, or I would. 645 00:35:57,400 --> 00:35:59,600 Or you'd be like my brothers. I have, I have two brothers that 646 00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:02,160 are both sort of functional atheists at this point or 647 00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:03,600 agnostics. I don't know what they're what 648 00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:06,840 they claim and they both went to Catholic University, one of them 649 00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:08,960 getting a degree in like theology, philosophy and walked 650 00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:09,880 out. But that's like, kind of a 651 00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:11,320 classic Jesuit move. OK. 652 00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:15,360 But that's, I mean so that's that's that's an A truly 653 00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:18,160 exceptional situation well. If you if you knew my brothers, 654 00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:19,480 that wouldn't surprise you even a little bit. 655 00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:21,680 Like not surprising built in contrarians. 656 00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:23,160 I have a whole family of contrarians. 657 00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:25,080 If I told them one thing, they would set their watch the other 658 00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:26,240 way. Well, I think there's also, 659 00:36:26,240 --> 00:36:29,200 there's a, there's a particularly American aspect to 660 00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:33,560 this, which is Americans and we see this in social media all the 661 00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:34,840 time. Everyone's an extra to every 662 00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:38,720 damn thing. And Americans don't want to be 663 00:36:38,720 --> 00:36:42,120 told and they're used to. And you know, they take a great 664 00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:48,440 deal of pride in having this anti authoritarian streak and 665 00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:51,720 what people often call organized religion. 666 00:36:51,720 --> 00:36:54,200 And if you've ever been to an Orthodox synagogue, you would 667 00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:55,920 laugh at the concept of organized. 668 00:36:55,920 --> 00:37:01,280 But the concept or institutionalized religion makes 669 00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:03,720 people think, well, you know, there are all these doctrines 670 00:37:03,720 --> 00:37:06,640 and they're all these ideas and then they're all these forms of 671 00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:11,120 conduct that I'm not going to have full comprehension of and 672 00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:12,400 that I'm going to be asked to do. 673 00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:15,920 And that's UN American I I 'cause I'm a free man. 674 00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:19,200 And that isn't an unreasonable conclusion to come to. 675 00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:27,320 If you have not been exposed to the idea that God is infinite, 676 00:37:27,720 --> 00:37:33,480 you will never understand in this world the true nature of 677 00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:38,240 what God demands of us and and what the divine, what the 678 00:37:38,240 --> 00:37:41,360 Godhead is about. And now it's only a matter of 679 00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:43,920 degree and we have a a tradition. 680 00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:45,920 This is actually something that came up in the in the recent 681 00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:51,600 weekly Torah reading that when the Torah was given on Mount 682 00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:59,040 Sinai, the Jews said we will obey and we will learn in that 683 00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:00,840 order. In other words, look your God, 684 00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:03,680 you know what's best for us. You created us. 685 00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:07,840 You made a special mission for the Jews, whatever it is. 686 00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:10,560 You gave us this recipe. Here's what's again. 687 00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:12,120 Here's what you're going to eat. You're not going to eat. 688 00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:15,960 We're going to do it because you want what's best for us. 689 00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:19,760 And now we're going to spend the rest of our lives trying to 690 00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:26,200 figure out what what you want, because we want to love you as 691 00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:29,680 much as you love us, which is impossible. 692 00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:35,240 But to at least get on that road or that level of affection and 693 00:38:35,240 --> 00:38:41,680 understanding as somebody who prided himself on his 694 00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:46,280 intellectual attainments, this was something that I recognized 695 00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:50,280 I would have to do. And when I made the commitment 696 00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:54,960 to become observant, it was at, it was at a sort of what's 697 00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:58,920 called a a beginner. I call beginners yeshiva. 698 00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:02,640 You know Yeshiva University people who may not understand 699 00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:05,680 this. Yeshiva is a generic word that 700 00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:09,040 means a place where rabbinic studies take place. 701 00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:14,760 Yeshiva University is named is so named because it combines 702 00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:19,200 rabbinic studies with traditional collegiate study. 703 00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:26,720 So in this beginners yeshiva they certainly in in the 80s. 704 00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:30,880 It's not the same. Now someone had like me would 705 00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:33,120 make the commitment, say, OK, I want to, I want to live the rest 706 00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:35,280 of my life religiously observant. 707 00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:39,560 I want to do it and say, OK, but I know you want to go back to 708 00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:41,720 law school now, Ron, but you don't really know what you're 709 00:39:41,720 --> 00:39:43,960 doing. I mean this your, your roommate 710 00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:47,080 in college grew up that way. You're not, you're not going to 711 00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:48,600 just recapitulate what you saw from. 712 00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:56,800 And I said, no, I'm an American, but also not so much that I was 713 00:39:56,800 --> 00:40:02,280 committed to it. And you know, I I recognize that 714 00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:06,240 the there are limits to autodidacticism that I can only 715 00:40:06,240 --> 00:40:11,280 teach myself so much. But again, I came from this 716 00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:15,920 working class background and I've been admitted to this top 717 00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:18,480 ten law school. And I'm not going to just walk 718 00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:20,320 away from that to studying Yoshiva. 719 00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:25,400 Let me let me get the law degree and I'll come back to you Shiva. 720 00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:27,440 And they said, Ron, no one comes back. 721 00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:30,560 You you're you're not going to come. 722 00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:36,200 So of course I'll show you three years later, right after the bar 723 00:40:36,200 --> 00:40:37,240 exam. This is the Luke. 724 00:40:37,240 --> 00:40:39,560 Skywalker story You're just describing Luke Skywalker 725 00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:42,520 walking away and coming back. Did you know this? 726 00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:44,200 Did you know we were going to do a Yoda thing? 727 00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:48,960 Well, I will tell you that my father and I have a much better 728 00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:51,840 relationship than Luke and his father. 729 00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:54,320 That's probably good if you cross swords with your father. 730 00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:58,840 It just doesn't end well. My father didn't did not really 731 00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:02,200 get me because he was a smart guy, but he was normal. 732 00:41:02,320 --> 00:41:06,640 He was not a nerd. But I came back. 733 00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:11,600 I spent then two years in yeshiva's before starting my 734 00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:16,880 legal career and I was a different person. 735 00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:21,520 No question about it. You know, I'm gonna Look, I was 736 00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:23,960 not such a wild and crazy guy in the 1st place. 737 00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:29,520 I had conservative tastes. I you know, I mean, I like girls 738 00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:34,480 like them a lot, but I tended to be a one woman man all the time 739 00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:40,120 and wasn't much of A partier. I was kind of an intellectual 740 00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:42,280 so. I like that you said nerdy. 741 00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:43,680 I can relate to that sort of thing. 742 00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:47,120 I like to be like a like to be like a poet jock, you know, or a 743 00:41:47,120 --> 00:41:48,680 jock poet kind of thing. I want to go. 744 00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:52,120 Yeah, that's right. I mean, I like and in fact, if 745 00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:55,040 you mentioned being a jock, there was a period in my late 746 00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:59,760 teens when I said I'm going to, I'm going to force myself to be 747 00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:04,960 a sports guy, a sports guy. How do you think I had never 748 00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:09,240 sports, sports. I mean, I would, I'm not a 749 00:42:09,240 --> 00:42:13,240 natural athlete. Just trust it. 750 00:42:13,720 --> 00:42:19,240 Can't jump, can't run. But you know, I had some bulk 751 00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:21,080 and, you know, upper body strength. 752 00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:25,440 I'm pretty good actually. You know, decent hitter, cannot 753 00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:28,560 make a layout. But I kind of got tried to make 754 00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:31,440 friends with and get into the sports scene, which we're like 755 00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:34,360 with a nice Jewish guys were, you know, playing ball after 756 00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:35,760 school and that kind of thing. For a couple years. 757 00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:39,440 I was kind of a jock, but it didn't really take because it 758 00:42:39,720 --> 00:42:42,240 wasn't. So when I got into high school 759 00:42:42,240 --> 00:42:47,240 and I found the drama clubs guy, I was, I was home. 760 00:42:47,240 --> 00:42:50,000 That was, that was your career. That was really where I wanted 761 00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:51,360 to be. And you know, that was pretty 762 00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:52,240 much the end of sports. You. 763 00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:55,440 Can't You can't live in both of those worlds at the same time. 764 00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:57,440 Oh, I think you can. I think you can. 765 00:42:57,440 --> 00:42:59,480 But if you really suck at sports. 766 00:42:59,720 --> 00:43:01,240 No, that's what I mean. Yeah, you're not. 767 00:43:01,240 --> 00:43:02,600 If you're not both good at both you. 768 00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:04,960 You get a pretty good actor, you know? 769 00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:07,320 I mean, it's kind of like with me on the SAT's. 770 00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:10,520 I mean, yeah, I had a respectable math score, but I 771 00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:13,200 had a much more respectable English score, and therefore I 772 00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:16,960 kind of left calculus behind in high school and, you know, went 773 00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:19,280 with the words instead of the instead of the the integers. 774 00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:22,080 What do? You you said that coming out 775 00:43:22,080 --> 00:43:24,600 after the yeshiva experience really changed the way that you 776 00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:29,120 went into law and not from being conservative to to or you know 777 00:43:29,160 --> 00:43:32,400 not conservative to conservative but to being maybe more 778 00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:33,800 principled. Is that is that would that be 779 00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:35,440 accurate you had more? No, no, no. 780 00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:37,640 That was always a goody 2 shoes, to tell you the truth. 781 00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:40,800 I was always a nerdiness. I was always pretty much a rule 782 00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:43,840 follower. I mean, I had my, you know, 783 00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:49,560 adolescence stupidities, but by and large, you know, I was a 784 00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:57,360 pretty good to shoes. But people who met me after 785 00:43:57,360 --> 00:44:00,320 yeshiva could tell the difference. 786 00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:09,120 The way I spoke, the words I didn't use any more than I used 787 00:44:09,120 --> 00:44:13,160 to use it's and I found that interesting because I didn't 788 00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:15,880 really think I was. I was so different. 789 00:44:20,760 --> 00:44:23,560 I don't. What was fascinating to me was 790 00:44:23,560 --> 00:44:26,920 that when it well a lot of things were but here I was now 791 00:44:26,920 --> 00:44:29,920 in law school in Chicago. Well, just like there were there 792 00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:32,360 were two steps. There was the commitment over 793 00:44:32,360 --> 00:44:35,880 the summer and then sort of the self education during law school 794 00:44:38,120 --> 00:44:41,440 And at Princeton there had been this, you know, which is in the 795 00:44:41,440 --> 00:44:43,320 New York area. There had been this community of 796 00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:46,560 Modern Orthodox kids. So I said OK, all major 797 00:44:46,560 --> 00:44:48,560 universities must have something like that. 798 00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:50,600 No, they don't. They don't. 799 00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:52,360 This is not New York, this is Chicago. 800 00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:58,520 And there was one guy in my class who was an observant, but 801 00:44:58,520 --> 00:45:01,720 he happened to be a Lubavitcher classic. 802 00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:05,880 And Lubavitch is that's Kabad. Those are the guys with the 803 00:45:06,080 --> 00:45:10,840 house in Crown Heights and their thing is outreach. 804 00:45:10,840 --> 00:45:12,880 I mean, he wouldn't have been in law school otherwise because 805 00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:14,360 other Hasidim don't go to law school. 806 00:45:16,200 --> 00:45:20,720 So they kind of helped get me up the curve as well. 807 00:45:20,720 --> 00:45:23,480 And there were a lot of, you know, a lot of growth took took 808 00:45:23,480 --> 00:45:25,680 place, you know, as part of that experience. 809 00:45:25,680 --> 00:45:28,680 And that was kind of interesting because because of my 810 00:45:28,680 --> 00:45:34,040 background, I was unusual among newcomers to the Achieva world 811 00:45:34,040 --> 00:45:36,800 because I already understood Yiddish pretty well. 812 00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:41,040 Most people in my situation don't know a stitch of Yiddish, 813 00:45:44,080 --> 00:45:47,280 so you know, that kind of made it a little bit more interesting 814 00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:49,120 for me. How critical is that the Yiddish 815 00:45:49,120 --> 00:45:54,200 skills? Well that combined with the the 816 00:45:54,200 --> 00:46:00,760 Brooklyn style enabled me and and plus having a having a good 817 00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:05,080 cup, a good, a good head. OK, I'm smart, I was able to 818 00:46:05,080 --> 00:46:09,480 pass for a non newcomer and I was also very sensitive to 819 00:46:09,480 --> 00:46:13,080 social cues. I knew how to dress like how to 820 00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:17,240 had a pass. So it's not a matter of, you 821 00:46:17,240 --> 00:46:21,040 know, fooling people. It's a matter of not wanting to 822 00:46:21,040 --> 00:46:23,120 feel the social discomfort of being an outside. 823 00:46:24,480 --> 00:46:29,400 So I was able to integrate well, but I was, of course, I was 824 00:46:29,920 --> 00:46:32,320 really an an ignoramus. And even after two years of 825 00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:38,240 yeshiva, I had made what's considered to be very, very good 826 00:46:38,240 --> 00:46:42,040 progress. But it got me to the level where 827 00:46:42,040 --> 00:46:46,360 my kids were in 8th grade. OK, you know, you know, and here 828 00:46:46,360 --> 00:46:50,960 I am a 25 year old Ivy Leaguer, but it, you know, it certainly 829 00:46:50,960 --> 00:46:53,040 helped. It got me a much better quality, 830 00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:56,680 you know, girl for, you know, who wanted a guy with that kind 831 00:46:56,680 --> 00:47:00,920 of background. And then I got into the 832 00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:06,320 professions and I will tell you that, you know, here I have 833 00:47:06,680 --> 00:47:09,800 broken through this ceiling that my father never could 834 00:47:10,400 --> 00:47:13,680 professionally. He was like a benefits clerk in 835 00:47:13,680 --> 00:47:16,280 in one company and then they kind of got smaller and smaller 836 00:47:16,280 --> 00:47:17,680 and they had fewer and fewer benefits. 837 00:47:18,200 --> 00:47:21,360 He was like a really good guy and with a good head on and he 838 00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:26,200 and he ended up becoming kind of a small time private investor 839 00:47:26,880 --> 00:47:30,200 and ended up having a decent retirement and you know 840 00:47:30,200 --> 00:47:35,640 providing for my mother decently well in a way that I mean people 841 00:47:35,640 --> 00:47:38,960 an hour age can't even imagine that somebody with just a high 842 00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:41,920 school degree could could do right, Unless they were in 843 00:47:41,920 --> 00:47:44,080 social media of course. You know, yeah, well, that's 844 00:47:44,160 --> 00:47:46,480 that's, that's not real. That's so gross. 845 00:47:46,720 --> 00:47:48,680 And it's such a small fraction of people that can do that. 846 00:47:49,120 --> 00:47:52,600 And then I get into but then I get into into this into this 847 00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:56,400 elite environment and I'm leaving early on Friday and I'm 848 00:47:56,400 --> 00:48:01,400 not really able to go out for lunch to network and and and 849 00:48:03,600 --> 00:48:09,160 it's it's a gigantic choice It's it doesn't just implicate that 850 00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:13,280 hour or that evening. It implicates your entire the 851 00:48:13,320 --> 00:48:16,320 entire way that you relate to people because you're just not 852 00:48:16,320 --> 00:48:20,080 developing the same kind of contacts and the same kind of 853 00:48:20,800 --> 00:48:22,760 social you know shared social experiences. 854 00:48:23,120 --> 00:48:26,720 But I never never did I say to myself boy what a mistake. 855 00:48:26,720 --> 00:48:31,440 I mean, I had come to the conclusion that this was what 856 00:48:31,600 --> 00:48:36,640 and who I should be. And wherever things took me, I 857 00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:38,720 would, you know, I would do my best with them. 858 00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:43,640 Frankly, I had a harder time adjusting to the social milieu 859 00:48:43,640 --> 00:48:48,560 of the professions because of my socio economic background than I 860 00:48:48,560 --> 00:48:51,200 did because of my religious observance. 861 00:48:52,280 --> 00:48:57,040 Because I didn't really pick up on cues all around me that even 862 00:48:58,360 --> 00:49:03,200 that that at Princeton, that people really studied 863 00:49:03,200 --> 00:49:09,600 assiduously in a way that I had never had to do in high school 864 00:49:09,600 --> 00:49:11,120 in. Other words, they spent more 865 00:49:11,120 --> 00:49:13,920 time just literally consuming. Studying books, preparing for 866 00:49:13,920 --> 00:49:16,840 tests, doing outlines. And I didn't really. 867 00:49:16,840 --> 00:49:20,080 I I didn't know how to do that because I had, I had been in a 868 00:49:20,080 --> 00:49:22,760 much less competitive environment than kids from like 869 00:49:22,960 --> 00:49:28,400 from Chappaqua, OK? And I just was the best in the 870 00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:31,640 class, one of the three or four best in the class, just by being 871 00:49:31,640 --> 00:49:37,160 Ron Coleman. And it wasn't until I got, you 872 00:49:37,160 --> 00:49:39,160 know, and then when you were in college, you get to choose which 873 00:49:39,360 --> 00:49:41,400 classes you want. So you choose, you know, the 874 00:49:41,400 --> 00:49:45,720 ones less resist. One thing I did do that was kind 875 00:49:45,720 --> 00:49:51,680 of intellectually idealistic was I majored in economics when I 876 00:49:51,680 --> 00:49:54,480 didn't really. I'm not a quantitative person as 877 00:49:54,480 --> 00:49:58,680 such, and I really my history, my interests were in history and 878 00:49:58,680 --> 00:50:00,800 politics. But I said, well, here's a 879 00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:06,520 paradigm for analyzing problems and behavior that will at least 880 00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:10,520 introduce some level of rigor into my thinking in my. 881 00:50:10,800 --> 00:50:12,400 And I think that was very valuable for me. 882 00:50:12,520 --> 00:50:14,760 And it really paid off in law school, because when I got to 883 00:50:14,760 --> 00:50:18,320 law school, Northwestern is good, but it's not full of 884 00:50:18,320 --> 00:50:19,920 people from Princeton, Harvard and Yale. 885 00:50:20,320 --> 00:50:25,360 And I ran the table first year by by studying but because I 886 00:50:25,400 --> 00:50:27,560 because I had watched the paper chase and I knew that in law 887 00:50:27,560 --> 00:50:31,080 school you do study so. You learned that from the movie? 888 00:50:31,520 --> 00:50:33,240 I learned I wouldn't have known otherwise. 889 00:50:33,240 --> 00:50:33,880 That's. So good. 890 00:50:35,720 --> 00:50:37,960 I think that's so relatable for most people, too. 891 00:50:38,200 --> 00:50:39,280 It's like, how'd you know about that? 892 00:50:39,280 --> 00:50:40,800 I saw a movie. It just let me know what was 893 00:50:40,800 --> 00:50:41,680 coming. It's like how? 894 00:50:41,720 --> 00:50:43,360 I learned that's how I learned manners. 895 00:50:43,560 --> 00:50:45,520 Standing up on a lady leaves the table. 896 00:50:45,800 --> 00:50:47,800 The rest of, like, all the taking off your gloves and you 897 00:50:47,800 --> 00:50:49,520 shake someone's head. My father's from the Lower East 898 00:50:49,520 --> 00:50:50,920 Side. You know, He's a real polite 899 00:50:50,920 --> 00:50:51,720 guy. Thank you. 900 00:50:51,720 --> 00:50:53,560 Please. But, you know, he's kind of 901 00:50:53,560 --> 00:50:54,560 nice. Cities were not the kind of 902 00:50:54,560 --> 00:50:57,600 things that I was going to pick up at home, nor did we have, I 903 00:50:57,600 --> 00:50:59,600 mean, who I wasn't even interacting with people like 904 00:50:59,600 --> 00:51:00,680 that. I was interacting with a bunch 905 00:51:00,680 --> 00:51:03,560 of Eastern European. And, you know, Eastern Europeans 906 00:51:03,560 --> 00:51:07,040 are really blunt. God bless you. 907 00:51:07,400 --> 00:51:10,040 You put on a lot of weight. Yeah, just straight up. 908 00:51:11,280 --> 00:51:14,080 No, no punches pulled, no, no niceties. 909 00:51:14,320 --> 00:51:16,720 So it's a harsh world. You you mentioned that 910 00:51:16,720 --> 00:51:18,560 difference was not so much the religious difference that you 911 00:51:18,560 --> 00:51:20,840 saw and even walking into the profession, but it was a class 912 00:51:20,840 --> 00:51:24,000 difference. At least, yes and and it cost 913 00:51:24,000 --> 00:51:27,880 me. I remember, in fact, one time 914 00:51:27,960 --> 00:51:31,000 after I I I was out of a Park Ave. law firm. 915 00:51:31,480 --> 00:51:33,680 I'm not avoiding mentioning and it just doesn't mean anything to 916 00:51:33,680 --> 00:51:34,760 anyone. That's fine, yeah, nobody knows. 917 00:51:34,760 --> 00:51:39,920 But one that was known as having a lot of Orthodox Jews and one 918 00:51:39,920 --> 00:51:43,160 time as so we have, we pray three times a day, once in the 919 00:51:43,160 --> 00:51:47,440 morning before you go to work, once in the evening before you 920 00:51:47,440 --> 00:51:52,040 go to sleep or after work, and then once in the afternoon or 921 00:51:52,040 --> 00:51:54,760 evening and you've got to find a time to do it. 922 00:51:55,680 --> 00:52:01,240 And we had a we had a, it's called a minion, a group of 10 923 00:52:01,240 --> 00:52:06,640 men who would meet in one of the offices at this law firm for 924 00:52:06,640 --> 00:52:10,440 this afternoon service. At one time, one of the older 925 00:52:10,440 --> 00:52:15,000 partners who you know, an observant man, called me over. 926 00:52:16,400 --> 00:52:17,640 I said, I want you to know we're with you. 927 00:52:18,400 --> 00:52:24,760 And he said, you really have to. You're going to have to change 928 00:52:24,760 --> 00:52:31,480 the way you you interact with you, you, you. 929 00:52:32,040 --> 00:52:33,800 You're not going to make it in a place like this. 930 00:52:33,800 --> 00:52:35,640 You, you you're too maybe. I think it's you. 931 00:52:35,760 --> 00:52:38,760 You you picked up too much in the Shiva world with the 932 00:52:38,760 --> 00:52:41,080 expressions and and and talking with your hands. 933 00:52:41,880 --> 00:52:43,640 And I really had no idea what he was talking about. 934 00:52:43,640 --> 00:52:46,080 I'd gotten through instead of gotten through Northwestern. 935 00:52:47,320 --> 00:52:52,040 He was 100% right. I was not clubbable. 936 00:52:52,960 --> 00:52:58,520 I really still had the stink of and and by. 937 00:52:58,520 --> 00:53:03,040 I mean history is full of people coming up from the, you know, 938 00:53:03,080 --> 00:53:06,120 from much more modest backgrounds than mine and 939 00:53:06,320 --> 00:53:09,240 learning how to do this. And it might be that if I had 940 00:53:09,240 --> 00:53:12,720 been a really good law firm associate, I might have gotten 941 00:53:12,720 --> 00:53:17,480 away with being who I am. But I wasn't a very good law 942 00:53:17,480 --> 00:53:21,520 firm associate. So you're you're. 943 00:53:22,240 --> 00:53:24,120 I didn't last. They could tell where you were 944 00:53:24,120 --> 00:53:25,160 from. They could tell by your 945 00:53:25,160 --> 00:53:27,440 mannerisms, by your inner like that, that sort of like a 946 00:53:27,440 --> 00:53:29,240 Polish. They used to have this thing. 947 00:53:29,240 --> 00:53:30,960 Do you ever, have you ever heard of cotillion? 948 00:53:31,040 --> 00:53:34,000 You know what that is? Yes, I mean, I've, I've heard of 949 00:53:34,000 --> 00:53:34,840 it. That's the best fact. 950 00:53:35,080 --> 00:53:36,520 I got invited. Yeah. 951 00:53:36,520 --> 00:53:38,840 I got invited one day to be some girl's date when I was in, I 952 00:53:38,840 --> 00:53:39,880 don't know, 4th grade or fifth grade. 953 00:53:39,880 --> 00:53:41,120 It was some, you know, childish thing. 954 00:53:41,120 --> 00:53:43,160 And I went to it and they were doing the box step and they were 955 00:53:43,160 --> 00:53:45,080 doing the foxtrot. And I was like, what is this 956 00:53:45,080 --> 00:53:46,400 nonsense? Like, what is this all about? 957 00:53:46,440 --> 00:53:47,960 And they were talking about where the forks go. 958 00:53:47,960 --> 00:53:50,440 And I was like, who cares? Because that's not the world I 959 00:53:50,440 --> 00:53:53,400 came from. My dad grew up very, very 960 00:53:53,400 --> 00:53:55,760 modestly and then did really well and and you know, but that 961 00:53:55,760 --> 00:53:57,120 wasn't our world. We were just like regular 962 00:53:57,120 --> 00:53:58,840 people. We didn't have multiple forks on 963 00:53:58,840 --> 00:53:59,680 the table. That's crazy. 964 00:53:59,680 --> 00:54:01,360 Well, what are you going to do? You have one fork. 965 00:54:01,360 --> 00:54:03,120 That's what you need. So I went to this thing. 966 00:54:03,120 --> 00:54:04,920 And there are people that do that, though, like, they 967 00:54:04,920 --> 00:54:07,720 literally are raised in a way that is outside of my 968 00:54:07,720 --> 00:54:09,520 understanding and probably outside of what your 969 00:54:09,520 --> 00:54:12,720 understanding was at the time. And it's visible when you show 970 00:54:12,720 --> 00:54:14,200 up. And we can pretend at a certain 971 00:54:14,200 --> 00:54:17,040 age you learn to observe around you and kind of adapt if you're 972 00:54:17,040 --> 00:54:19,600 a good enough chameleon. But if you don't even know what 973 00:54:19,600 --> 00:54:21,960 to look for, and you don't even know if there's a difference. 974 00:54:22,320 --> 00:54:23,760 And and Princeton was great for that. 975 00:54:23,760 --> 00:54:26,760 It was a finishing school for me in many respects, even though I 976 00:54:26,760 --> 00:54:30,720 didn't, you know, even though Stanley could still tell that I 977 00:54:30,720 --> 00:54:34,520 was from Brooklyn. And but I did learn how to tie a 978 00:54:34,520 --> 00:54:39,000 bow tie, a real bow tie, you know, and had had a dress. 979 00:54:39,200 --> 00:54:41,240 You know, I mean the things, the things you would learn. 980 00:54:43,000 --> 00:54:46,640 And then I go and spoil it by putting this really conspicuous 981 00:54:46,640 --> 00:54:50,200 big black yarmulke on my head. And I go to like I sometimes 982 00:54:50,200 --> 00:54:53,240 have occasion to go to formal events now and I feel quite well 983 00:54:53,240 --> 00:54:55,960 prepared to present. And in fact I I would say that 984 00:54:55,960 --> 00:55:01,880 I'm on the upper quartile of nailing it in terms of because I 985 00:55:01,880 --> 00:55:05,200 look around and I see how people they don't know what they're 986 00:55:05,200 --> 00:55:06,520 they don't know what they're doing with their with their 987 00:55:06,520 --> 00:55:07,680 evening clothes. OK And then I'm wearing the 988 00:55:07,680 --> 00:55:12,440 wrong kind of shoes and but I'm the most but I'm the one with 989 00:55:12,440 --> 00:55:17,520 the yellow star because I'm in a I'm in a Penguin suit and then 990 00:55:17,520 --> 00:55:21,560 the the black this just does not it just really doesn't go that 991 00:55:21,600 --> 00:55:26,200 is what God wanted for me and that's just that you know it it. 992 00:55:26,520 --> 00:55:29,720 And I will tell you what was a very interesting turning point 993 00:55:29,720 --> 00:55:34,560 though. For most of my career I did not 994 00:55:34,920 --> 00:55:38,640 wear my yarmulke in professional settings especially as a 995 00:55:38,640 --> 00:55:43,360 litigator. You know going into court what 996 00:55:43,360 --> 00:55:48,920 you don't want to give, You don't want to cede anything and 997 00:55:49,880 --> 00:55:52,120 you're not. You're there to represent your 998 00:55:52,120 --> 00:56:00,920 client and to maximize ethically and what not his or her or its 999 00:56:00,920 --> 00:56:03,680 results. Not to make a statement about 1000 00:56:03,680 --> 00:56:10,000 your faith or to tell people when you're not reachable, what 1001 00:56:10,000 --> 00:56:15,240 you can and can't eat, whatever it is when COVID came and every 1002 00:56:15,400 --> 00:56:19,600 which is not to say that I was hiding like everyone who met 1003 00:56:19,600 --> 00:56:22,640 with me or work with me knew. Because when I would, when I 1004 00:56:22,640 --> 00:56:26,400 would eat and, you know, I would, everyone saw me in a 1005 00:56:26,400 --> 00:56:31,200 yarmulke, but it wasn't part of my presentation as such. 1006 00:56:32,040 --> 00:56:36,080 But then when COVID came and we were all on zoom, thinking I'm 1007 00:56:36,080 --> 00:56:41,880 taking off my yarmulke in my own house, No, I'm not going to do 1008 00:56:41,880 --> 00:56:45,120 that. I'm not going to do that now to 1009 00:56:45,120 --> 00:56:46,560 this day. I mean, I was in front of the 1010 00:56:46,560 --> 00:56:51,360 9th Circuit a couple weeks ago, especially, guess what? 1011 00:56:51,840 --> 00:56:54,080 There's a thing of anti-Semitism going around. 1012 00:56:54,080 --> 00:56:55,680 You might have heard about this. Yeah, I want to. 1013 00:56:55,760 --> 00:56:57,880 We're going to get to that too, I think, because it's so wild 1014 00:56:57,880 --> 00:56:59,760 how raw it is right now and on the surface. 1015 00:57:00,280 --> 00:57:04,280 And I obviously, again, I'm not fooling anybody about who I am. 1016 00:57:04,280 --> 00:57:08,000 But when you were a yarmulke, people quite mistakenly are 1017 00:57:08,000 --> 00:57:11,520 under the impression that if you were a yarmulke, you were more 1018 00:57:11,520 --> 00:57:16,120 of an Israel guy than someone else who doesn't necessarily. 1019 00:57:16,560 --> 00:57:19,440 I just didn't want that baggage. And so, you know, I went bare 1020 00:57:19,440 --> 00:57:21,640 headed in front of the in front of the 9th Circuit. 1021 00:57:21,640 --> 00:57:23,880 I don't know whether that's going to help my case at all 1022 00:57:23,880 --> 00:57:26,320 because it was. I was brought in as a ringer on 1023 00:57:26,320 --> 00:57:29,960 a kind of a stinker of a case at the very end. 1024 00:57:30,200 --> 00:57:36,080 But this nonetheless became around that time I started doing 1025 00:57:36,080 --> 00:57:39,160 video on social media because the platforms became so much 1026 00:57:39,840 --> 00:57:44,200 more powerful and amenable to it, and I began to socialize. 1027 00:57:44,200 --> 00:57:50,080 My wife, she's, she's from New England and she's a very modest 1028 00:57:50,680 --> 00:57:55,400 and private person and she knew that she was not marrying that 1029 00:57:55,400 --> 00:57:58,360 kind of person. But she has a very, very well 1030 00:57:58,360 --> 00:58:01,960 developed sense of dignity and privacy, which is, I mean 1031 00:58:02,560 --> 00:58:06,760 there's a lot of good reasons to marry someone who is your 1032 00:58:06,760 --> 00:58:10,840 opposite, not when it comes to values, but when it comes to 1033 00:58:10,840 --> 00:58:14,640 personality, there are limits. And sometimes it, you know, 1034 00:58:14,640 --> 00:58:16,840 because I'm a bull in a China shop kind of guy and she's a, 1035 00:58:16,840 --> 00:58:19,400 you know, she's a little Pussycat, but. 1036 00:58:19,680 --> 00:58:20,840 Does she? Does she temper you? 1037 00:58:21,840 --> 00:58:25,480 Yeah, she she does. As bad as it would be, as bad as 1038 00:58:25,480 --> 00:58:30,440 it is as many Ron Coleman faces you see staring out at you on 1039 00:58:30,520 --> 00:58:34,000 on, you know, in My stream, it would be worse if it weren't for 1040 00:58:34,000 --> 00:58:37,160 Jane. She has given me a, you know, at 1041 00:58:37,160 --> 00:58:40,280 least the sensibility to understand that smearing 1042 00:58:40,280 --> 00:58:45,840 yourself as she puts it around is not necessarily an inherent 1043 00:58:46,280 --> 00:58:49,360 good. Do you rub off on her in the 1044 00:58:49,360 --> 00:58:51,400 same way that she has a little more assertive nature? 1045 00:58:52,120 --> 00:58:55,760 Yeah, a little bit. The fact is, she really, really 1046 00:58:55,760 --> 00:58:58,920 hated Twitter. It's a long, long time. 1047 00:58:59,000 --> 00:59:01,640 It's the worst. But then she realized she's a 1048 00:59:01,640 --> 00:59:04,280 writer. If she wants anyone to read what 1049 00:59:04,280 --> 00:59:07,800 she writes, she needs to be on Twitter. 1050 00:59:09,320 --> 00:59:12,000 You know, unless you're really a very big, established person, 1051 00:59:13,200 --> 00:59:15,280 that's how you know that's how it's going to be. 1052 00:59:15,560 --> 00:59:18,440 So she has, you know, she sends me stuff to retweet. 1053 00:59:18,440 --> 00:59:22,960 And you know, I love this. I mean, I frankly, I wish she 1054 00:59:22,960 --> 00:59:26,800 would get on the podcast with me because she's she's really 1055 00:59:26,800 --> 00:59:28,360 smart. When she writes about something 1056 00:59:28,880 --> 00:59:31,680 she like she said to me, Ron, what? 1057 00:59:31,680 --> 00:59:33,640 What if we would have met when we were in college? 1058 00:59:33,640 --> 00:59:36,480 Wouldn't that be cute? We would never have met if we 1059 00:59:36,480 --> 00:59:38,560 were in college. Because you were in the library 1060 00:59:38,560 --> 00:59:39,800 the whole time. That's right. 1061 00:59:39,920 --> 00:59:42,440 I never went into the library. Plus, you would have looked at 1062 00:59:42,440 --> 00:59:46,400 me and said that kind of wild, irresponsible guy is not the 1063 00:59:46,400 --> 00:59:47,960 kind of guy I'm looking for. Yes. 1064 00:59:47,960 --> 00:59:52,520 So it, you know, God has a plan. I don't always know what it is. 1065 00:59:52,560 --> 00:59:54,640 I always tell people I can only see it in the rear view. 1066 00:59:54,640 --> 00:59:56,200 That's when it like sort of makes sense to me. 1067 00:59:56,320 --> 01:00:00,040 That's me attempting to justify something that was always going 1068 01:00:00,040 --> 01:00:03,240 to be and always made sense, but it made no sense to me at the 1069 01:00:03,240 --> 01:00:04,560 time. And it makes no sense often 1070 01:00:04,560 --> 01:00:07,400 times afterwards, if it gets far enough away, you start seeing 1071 01:00:07,400 --> 01:00:09,680 this sort of the bigger picture and you go, oh, what an 1072 01:00:09,680 --> 01:00:12,960 interesting arc that we are on right now, how you can't see it. 1073 01:00:12,960 --> 01:00:14,560 It looks like a straight line. The straight line looks like 1074 01:00:14,560 --> 01:00:15,720 it's going and God knows what way. 1075 01:00:15,960 --> 01:00:17,520 And then you look and you're like, no, it was a natural 1076 01:00:17,520 --> 01:00:18,760 curve. It always went to the way it was 1077 01:00:18,760 --> 01:00:21,040 supposed to go. My wife and I joke about this 1078 01:00:21,040 --> 01:00:23,080 all the time, too. We met when we were 27, and we 1079 01:00:23,080 --> 01:00:24,360 would have never met before that. 1080 01:00:24,360 --> 01:00:27,840 In fact, we actually did meet briefly for one night. 1081 01:00:27,840 --> 01:00:30,600 We were in the same dance club with some friends and we were 1082 01:00:30,600 --> 01:00:32,560 all kind of out. And she was the only gal that 1083 01:00:32,560 --> 01:00:33,600 was there. And it was my buddies from 1084 01:00:33,600 --> 01:00:36,360 college and buddies from high school and and there was 1085 01:00:36,360 --> 01:00:37,400 nothing, there was nothing there. 1086 01:00:37,720 --> 01:00:40,880 And then, you know, two years later, you know, then it wow, 1087 01:00:40,960 --> 01:00:42,400 stuck forever. So that's kind of wild. 1088 01:00:42,960 --> 01:00:46,440 Well, my so went went out. So Jane and I were in law school 1089 01:00:46,440 --> 01:00:48,120 at the same time I was in Chicago. 1090 01:00:48,120 --> 01:00:55,360 She was in Palo Alto, and I became a writer for the AB as 1091 01:00:55,360 --> 01:00:58,160 Law Student magazine, which was called Student Lawyer. 1092 01:00:58,800 --> 01:01:03,360 And the editors there were fascinated by the fact that I 1093 01:01:03,360 --> 01:01:05,800 was attending law school. But I was an observant Jew. 1094 01:01:06,440 --> 01:01:12,080 And that I would walk up eight or ten flights to my dorm room 1095 01:01:12,640 --> 01:01:14,440 on Friday nights because I couldn't take the elevator and 1096 01:01:14,920 --> 01:01:16,160 they just thought it was fascinating. 1097 01:01:16,160 --> 01:01:18,240 And they, they asked me to write an article about this 1098 01:01:18,240 --> 01:01:22,960 experience, which was much less common than it is now, although 1099 01:01:22,960 --> 01:01:28,080 it was hardly, you know, exotic. But then again, I was from the 1100 01:01:28,080 --> 01:01:30,320 New York area, so I wrote this article and then actually ended 1101 01:01:30,320 --> 01:01:32,480 up winning a couple of of awards. 1102 01:01:33,200 --> 01:01:38,680 And they had one of these little, like editor's words in 1103 01:01:38,680 --> 01:01:41,120 the beginning of the magazine and they had a picture of me 1104 01:01:42,160 --> 01:01:46,120 and, you know, introducing the article and how how much they 1105 01:01:46,120 --> 01:01:51,120 liked it. And someone else who was in law 1106 01:01:51,120 --> 01:01:54,960 school, a friend of my wife's, said, oh, why don't you marry 1107 01:01:54,960 --> 01:01:59,400 this guy and like that one look at me in my bomber, my leather 1108 01:01:59,400 --> 01:02:02,760 bomber jacket and said no, that's not, that's not what I'm 1109 01:02:02,760 --> 01:02:05,000 looking for. Like she wanted a, like a 1110 01:02:05,000 --> 01:02:08,960 rabbinical student looking guy and I was a cool looking guy. 1111 01:02:08,960 --> 01:02:15,000 I love it. She ended up actually getting 1112 01:02:15,000 --> 01:02:17,520 the cool guy who dressed like a rabbinical student, so. 1113 01:02:18,280 --> 01:02:20,000 That's a perfect. That's the that's the perfect 1114 01:02:20,160 --> 01:02:21,720 jam. So my my wife and I, I'll just 1115 01:02:21,720 --> 01:02:24,960 share this kind of briefly. It's the same kind of sense she 1116 01:02:24,960 --> 01:02:27,960 says everyone thinks that you're really mean and I'm as mean as 1117 01:02:27,960 --> 01:02:30,080 anybody. And I I feel like that given the 1118 01:02:30,080 --> 01:02:31,720 opportunity. Oh yeah, if you're on the wrong 1119 01:02:31,720 --> 01:02:35,120 side, I'm, I'm heartless. You you talked about the guy 1120 01:02:35,120 --> 01:02:38,080 that was born without a heart. I almost sociopathic. 1121 01:02:38,080 --> 01:02:41,240 I have the ability to just, you know level in and get mission 1122 01:02:41,240 --> 01:02:42,520 focused. But. 1123 01:02:42,840 --> 01:02:44,680 Never with my or with the FBI after. 1124 01:02:44,680 --> 01:02:47,520 All you have to well, you have to be able to do what we call 1125 01:02:47,520 --> 01:02:50,120 flip the switch, which means that when it's time to do work, 1126 01:02:50,560 --> 01:02:53,680 feelings don't matter. Nothing else gets in the way of 1127 01:02:53,920 --> 01:02:56,480 accomplishing what is happening. And I'm very driven in that way. 1128 01:02:56,680 --> 01:02:59,520 And I think it came from from many, many years of being a 1129 01:02:59,520 --> 01:03:02,120 swimmer where I just had my own thoughts in the water and 1130 01:03:02,120 --> 01:03:03,280 nothing else. That's interesting. 1131 01:03:03,600 --> 01:03:05,960 Yeah, just I love being alone. I I. 1132 01:03:05,960 --> 01:03:07,600 In fact, even around people, I can be alone. 1133 01:03:07,600 --> 01:03:08,960 As long as I can't hear you, I don't care. 1134 01:03:09,640 --> 01:03:11,680 Oh no, I get that. Yeah, it's funny, actually, 1135 01:03:11,680 --> 01:03:17,600 because I'm I'm an INTJ. I should know what mine are, but 1136 01:03:17,600 --> 01:03:20,080 I think that sounds right. Yeah, I'm an introvert. 1137 01:03:20,360 --> 01:03:21,800 Me too. OK, Ron, I could be an 1138 01:03:21,800 --> 01:03:22,280 introvert. You're. 1139 01:03:22,560 --> 01:03:26,640 No, no, no. At a party, I'm not afraid to 1140 01:03:26,640 --> 01:03:28,120 talk to people. But I'm. 1141 01:03:29,120 --> 01:03:30,800 I'm very happy to sit there with my own thoughts. 1142 01:03:30,800 --> 01:03:35,200 I, I, I, you know, I don't need, you know, it's a contradiction. 1143 01:03:35,200 --> 01:03:36,320 But I you you know. Yes. 1144 01:03:36,320 --> 01:03:37,920 You know what? Your energy is not coming from 1145 01:03:37,920 --> 01:03:39,640 being around those people. It probably it drains you. 1146 01:03:41,320 --> 01:03:43,560 It's exhausting to be around people for me and I feel the 1147 01:03:43,560 --> 01:03:44,560 same. We probably. 1148 01:03:44,560 --> 01:03:47,800 Especially especially when you're so much smarter than 1149 01:03:47,880 --> 01:03:49,520 that. It's that's the worst. 1150 01:03:49,760 --> 01:03:52,480 There's nothing worse. I had a, I'll tell you a funny 1151 01:03:52,480 --> 01:03:54,840 little story with my one of my FBI bosses, she said. 1152 01:03:55,320 --> 01:03:56,480 She said something. You know, the throwaway line. 1153 01:03:56,480 --> 01:03:57,560 I'm not the smartest guy in the world. 1154 01:03:57,600 --> 01:03:59,280 Objectively true, right? You're not the smartest guy in 1155 01:03:59,280 --> 01:04:00,200 the world. I'm not the smartest. 1156 01:04:00,400 --> 01:04:01,480 Even I don't think I'm the smartest. 1157 01:04:01,480 --> 01:04:04,480 Yeah, we've met people smarter than ourselves and and you'd be 1158 01:04:04,480 --> 01:04:06,320 ridiculous. I I know a guy, I I've said this 1159 01:04:06,320 --> 01:04:09,720 once before, maybe on a podcast. But I had a a guy in my class 1160 01:04:09,720 --> 01:04:12,160 when I was in high school and his physics notes were in the 1161 01:04:12,160 --> 01:04:15,400 shape of a cartoon bird character and he had an entire 1162 01:04:15,400 --> 01:04:16,680 series that was called The Birds of War. 1163 01:04:16,680 --> 01:04:20,120 And if you got drilled down the tiny little lines were all 1164 01:04:20,120 --> 01:04:22,200 physics equations that he was working through. 1165 01:04:22,480 --> 01:04:23,880 But they were. They were animation. 1166 01:04:25,120 --> 01:04:27,160 OK, that's another level of weird. 1167 01:04:27,160 --> 01:04:28,600 Smart. He also was socially kind of 1168 01:04:28,600 --> 01:04:30,080 retarded. He just wasn't able to talk to 1169 01:04:30,080 --> 01:04:31,160 people. He wasn't a cool guy. 1170 01:04:31,440 --> 01:04:33,000 He was as. You might well expect. 1171 01:04:33,000 --> 01:04:35,360 As you might expect, almost. You know, we would always say 1172 01:04:35,360 --> 01:04:37,720 spectrum type, but he wasn't. He was just he was just a very 1173 01:04:37,720 --> 01:04:40,040 cerebral guy with A and his dad was a lawyer and that was 1174 01:04:40,040 --> 01:04:41,520 interesting. So long and short. 1175 01:04:41,520 --> 01:04:43,600 He's that guy. So I know there are smartest 1176 01:04:43,600 --> 01:04:44,880 people. I'm talking to my my boss and 1177 01:04:44,880 --> 01:04:46,560 she says something to me and I go, look, I'm not the smartest 1178 01:04:46,560 --> 01:04:48,720 guy in the world, but I know this it was a set up to the next 1179 01:04:48,720 --> 01:04:49,960 line. I know this is true. 1180 01:04:50,440 --> 01:04:52,800 And she said, Kyle, I mean, I think you're smart. 1181 01:04:53,880 --> 01:04:56,080 Who are you to affirm me? I don't require this of you. 1182 01:04:56,080 --> 01:04:58,640 I don't know who you are, lady. And at some point she pushed me. 1183 01:04:58,640 --> 01:05:01,080 And then we started getting into breaking out where I stood in 1184 01:05:01,080 --> 01:05:03,920 the the IQ scores to let her know that I don't need her 1185 01:05:03,920 --> 01:05:06,040 affirm your assurances anymore. She wasn't. 1186 01:05:06,040 --> 01:05:07,840 I was just saying it, I'm. Just saying it. 1187 01:05:07,840 --> 01:05:10,400 It's a throwaway line lady. Get off my back like you're not 1188 01:05:10,400 --> 01:05:13,360 a good manager. We we touched him briefly on 1189 01:05:13,360 --> 01:05:17,120 this anti-Semitism thing. I feel like it's we have Kamala 1190 01:05:17,120 --> 01:05:19,280 Harris that's going to solve the problem in the Middle East now. 1191 01:05:19,280 --> 01:05:21,200 That's really exciting for me. And she's going to go and she. 1192 01:05:21,360 --> 01:05:22,760 Did so well at the border she did. 1193 01:05:22,880 --> 01:05:25,440 Got to give her a shot. And she's handled AI, so I'm no 1194 01:05:25,440 --> 01:05:26,560 longer afraid of the Terminators. 1195 01:05:26,840 --> 01:05:28,960 So all the things they put her on, she's handled. 1196 01:05:28,960 --> 01:05:31,480 She's going to deal with the with the the Middle East. 1197 01:05:32,160 --> 01:05:35,120 What in the world is happening in this country where we have 1198 01:05:35,120 --> 01:05:38,400 people that are blatantly saying the the only solution is 1199 01:05:38,400 --> 01:05:41,480 revolution and Intifada and all these other kind of wild things. 1200 01:05:41,880 --> 01:05:44,360 People that don't even know what is going on in the Middle East 1201 01:05:44,360 --> 01:05:45,600 or don't understand the conflict. 1202 01:05:46,480 --> 01:05:49,360 They are now marching in the streets, shutting down traffic 1203 01:05:49,640 --> 01:05:52,160 mostly in the northeast it seems like, but all sort of live big 1204 01:05:52,160 --> 01:05:53,920 city areas. How are you seeing that? 1205 01:05:54,440 --> 01:05:59,400 Well, these are mostly Muslims, overwhelmingly international 1206 01:05:59,400 --> 01:06:03,560 students or recent immigrants from the Obama era. 1207 01:06:05,120 --> 01:06:07,080 It's interesting to me that you're talking. 1208 01:06:07,400 --> 01:06:11,400 I mean these are the ones who are snarling up traffic and you 1209 01:06:11,400 --> 01:06:17,880 know rushing into synagogues and you know causing the real, the 1210 01:06:17,880 --> 01:06:21,480 real problems. And it's really important to 1211 01:06:21,480 --> 01:06:27,160 understand that yes, they are animated to, you know, they they 1212 01:06:27,160 --> 01:06:29,520 really are. I think the word hate is 1213 01:06:29,800 --> 01:06:33,800 overused. They they're interested in 1214 01:06:33,800 --> 01:06:41,640 asserting power and dominance and they see Jews as part of the 1215 01:06:41,920 --> 01:06:45,520 power equation in the United States, quite understandably, 1216 01:06:46,760 --> 01:06:50,600 especially in universities which are filled with these 1217 01:06:50,600 --> 01:06:56,320 assimilated Jews who can't do enough to show how down with the 1218 01:06:56,320 --> 01:07:03,040 revolution they are. And what they're mostly doing is 1219 01:07:03,040 --> 01:07:05,720 flexing. I'm not saying that they aren't 1220 01:07:05,720 --> 01:07:08,480 vicious anti semites. They are. 1221 01:07:09,160 --> 01:07:12,200 But just the word hate has just become empty. 1222 01:07:12,280 --> 01:07:19,560 It's become empty. They are confronting 1223 01:07:19,560 --> 01:07:29,480 institutions, academic, government, you name it and 1224 01:07:29,480 --> 01:07:33,280 spitting it in their faces. Not because they're interested 1225 01:07:33,280 --> 01:07:37,160 in a saliva covered face on the other side, but because they're 1226 01:07:38,000 --> 01:07:43,680 pissing out territory. They're they are the the 1227 01:07:44,280 --> 01:07:52,360 vanguard of a Marxist destructive, nihilist movement. 1228 01:07:52,360 --> 01:07:55,960 And I think all those words apply. 1229 01:07:55,960 --> 01:08:00,800 All those adjectives apply whose mission, the mission of which is 1230 01:08:00,800 --> 01:08:05,080 to undermine the institutions in the United States and in the 1231 01:08:05,080 --> 01:08:11,720 West, to take what we have and which they cannot build for 1232 01:08:11,720 --> 01:08:16,200 themselves and they can never build for themselves in any 1233 01:08:16,200 --> 01:08:23,840 country, anywhere. You take what we've built either 1234 01:08:23,840 --> 01:08:26,840 for themselves or just to. Destroy it? 1235 01:08:27,399 --> 01:08:33,000 That seems more like it. Just to destroy it out of pre 1236 01:08:33,040 --> 01:08:40,399 modern rage and the institutional majority left. 1237 01:08:40,600 --> 01:08:44,880 In other words, I mean white, overwhelmingly female. 1238 01:08:44,880 --> 01:08:54,960 Now, even males are females feminized, either approve of 1239 01:08:54,960 --> 01:08:59,920 this or have convinced themselves that they approve of 1240 01:08:59,920 --> 01:09:02,520 it, which is by a much larger group than the first group. 1241 01:09:03,640 --> 01:09:07,319 But they have hip MO ties themselves into believing that 1242 01:09:07,319 --> 01:09:12,880 they approve of it because they can't imagine any other way of 1243 01:09:12,880 --> 01:09:14,760 living. And if they did, they couldn't 1244 01:09:14,760 --> 01:09:16,640 say it. And that's the third category. 1245 01:09:16,920 --> 01:09:19,200 They don't even believe that they approve of it, but they are 1246 01:09:19,560 --> 01:09:22,399 terrified for their careers, for their standing, for their 1247 01:09:22,399 --> 01:09:24,600 whatever, for their social standing. 1248 01:09:25,720 --> 01:09:30,040 And it's it's, you know, it's hard for me to really envision. 1249 01:09:30,040 --> 01:09:32,680 I mean, I've spoken to, I keep citing him. 1250 01:09:32,680 --> 01:09:35,359 It's not name dropping, but he really helped me to understand a 1251 01:09:35,359 --> 01:09:40,080 lot. James Lindsay, about the Marxist 1252 01:09:40,080 --> 01:09:45,479 roots of of this phenomenon. I'm hard pressed to believe that 1253 01:09:46,359 --> 01:09:53,439 even in the darkest moments of the Soviet secret services 1254 01:09:54,240 --> 01:10:00,720 during the Stalin era that there was and I, I I have seen that 1255 01:10:00,720 --> 01:10:03,920 video of that former KGB guy who who says, no, Ron, you're wrong. 1256 01:10:03,920 --> 01:10:06,840 And really this is what we plan and this is how we do it. 1257 01:10:07,000 --> 01:10:11,880 I get that. But I think to some extent he 1258 01:10:11,880 --> 01:10:14,560 would like to take credit for more. 1259 01:10:15,240 --> 01:10:18,080 This is Yuri Besman or whatever. I'm sorry. 1260 01:10:18,160 --> 01:10:19,640 Yuri Besman off, or whatever his name was. 1261 01:10:19,720 --> 01:10:23,640 Yeah, right. There is a real, a really strong 1262 01:10:23,640 --> 01:10:29,440 inclination towards when when a society succeeds. 1263 01:10:29,440 --> 01:10:32,560 We see this in the history of every great civilization. 1264 01:10:32,840 --> 01:10:43,120 It gets soft and it gets weak, and there's going to be some 1265 01:10:43,120 --> 01:10:48,560 vulnerability somewhere. I don't know. 1266 01:10:50,400 --> 01:10:55,440 You know, to me, the generation that let this happen above all 1267 01:10:56,160 --> 01:11:01,520 is the one that my generation grew up being told was the 1268 01:11:01,520 --> 01:11:06,200 Greatest Generation. The ones who won World War 2 are 1269 01:11:06,200 --> 01:11:10,760 the same ones who opened the doors, opened the gates to the 1270 01:11:10,760 --> 01:11:15,560 Barbarians in the 50s, sixties and 70s when they were running 1271 01:11:15,560 --> 01:11:18,280 things. And I remember even perceiving 1272 01:11:18,280 --> 01:11:22,680 this as a young child in the late 60s when rioting, race 1273 01:11:22,680 --> 01:11:28,240 riots and Vietnam protests were taking place, and wondering when 1274 01:11:28,240 --> 01:11:33,000 does somebody stop this? When do the people in charge, 1275 01:11:33,880 --> 01:11:37,600 those white people with the square jaws and the full heads 1276 01:11:37,600 --> 01:11:39,400 of hair? My dad doesn't look like I 1277 01:11:39,400 --> 01:11:42,440 remember looking at we we used to have the Dick and Jane, you 1278 01:11:42,440 --> 01:11:44,920 know, right. And I was remembered. 1279 01:11:45,240 --> 01:11:50,600 It's so I didn't know what it was, but I knew that that dad 1280 01:11:50,600 --> 01:11:54,400 didn't look like my dad. And I love my dad, but I could 1281 01:11:54,400 --> 01:11:57,200 tell it was a different kind of. This was the guy that that you 1282 01:11:57,200 --> 01:12:02,520 know he he he ate K rations and you know he had a he had a 1283 01:12:02,520 --> 01:12:04,360 helmet that you know when he when he when he came home he 1284 01:12:04,360 --> 01:12:05,680 didn't have that. He had the full head of hair and 1285 01:12:05,680 --> 01:12:07,400 he wore like a tie or something, but for that. 1286 01:12:08,080 --> 01:12:12,440 Absolutely cigars, guys who were in, who were in charge, and why 1287 01:12:12,440 --> 01:12:14,200 wouldn't they act like they were in charge? 1288 01:12:14,440 --> 01:12:17,880 So there's this strain of liberalism, of American 1289 01:12:17,920 --> 01:12:20,920 optimism. He'd let everybody have his say, 1290 01:12:22,800 --> 01:12:24,640 and we have an airing of grievances and we have better 1291 01:12:24,640 --> 01:12:26,760 communication. It's going to be OK. 1292 01:12:28,600 --> 01:12:35,040 And it seemed that we had gotten past that and a lot of the 1293 01:12:35,040 --> 01:12:38,000 problems that that attitude permitted. 1294 01:12:38,800 --> 01:12:46,600 But what we didn't realize was that, again, I don't really 1295 01:12:47,240 --> 01:12:51,280 understand that it was people sitting around a real or virtual 1296 01:12:51,640 --> 01:12:54,320 conference room table planning this out. 1297 01:12:54,800 --> 01:12:59,560 Because I think natural forces and people whose interests 1298 01:12:59,560 --> 01:13:03,400 coalesce acted in a coordinated way. 1299 01:13:03,400 --> 01:13:08,120 That wasn't planned, but but nonetheless, you've had this 1300 01:13:08,120 --> 01:13:13,200 Color revolution that is underway right now that just 1301 01:13:13,200 --> 01:13:20,920 satisfied so many agendas. And when we left New York, one 1302 01:13:20,920 --> 01:13:24,840 of the things, again as a child in the early 70s, one of the 1303 01:13:24,840 --> 01:13:28,600 things that was going on was bussing. 1304 01:13:29,880 --> 01:13:33,000 They were bussing kids. And I remember being so confused 1305 01:13:33,000 --> 01:13:37,320 because my Eastern European relatives would say to me, you 1306 01:13:37,320 --> 01:13:41,160 have Stratches in your class. Why were they asking me that? 1307 01:13:41,160 --> 01:13:42,600 Why do they care? Why do they even care? 1308 01:13:42,640 --> 01:13:45,680 Like, who care? And then what does that? 1309 01:13:45,680 --> 01:13:47,160 Start again. Help me what that means? 1310 01:13:47,800 --> 01:13:49,000 Schwarzer. You never heard the word 1311 01:13:49,000 --> 01:13:51,280 Schwarzer. I may have but but it doesn't. 1312 01:13:51,320 --> 01:13:53,760 Say yeah, so that's the Yiddish word for a black. 1313 01:13:53,760 --> 01:13:55,440 Person that makes sense. I mean, that's what I took from 1314 01:13:55,440 --> 01:13:56,640 context, but I. Yes. 1315 01:13:56,680 --> 01:13:59,960 So it's a famous scene from emblazing saddles. 1316 01:14:00,600 --> 01:14:04,560 Mel Brooks, playing the Indian chief, watching, watching the 1317 01:14:04,560 --> 01:14:12,920 black sheriff arriving. He says, oh, schwarzers, they 1318 01:14:12,920 --> 01:14:17,360 dock it in India. You could never make those 1319 01:14:17,440 --> 01:14:19,240 movies today. No. 1320 01:14:20,400 --> 01:14:23,480 The point is, though, when black kids from other neighborhoods 1321 01:14:23,480 --> 01:14:26,480 started showing up in our schools, I was astonished they 1322 01:14:26,480 --> 01:14:28,080 were coming to school in underwear. 1323 01:14:28,640 --> 01:14:33,080 In other words, T-shirts, right? How do you go to school in your 1324 01:14:33,080 --> 01:14:35,840 T-shirt? How is that a way to go to 1325 01:14:35,840 --> 01:14:39,440 school? It was this big, this big shock. 1326 01:14:41,800 --> 01:14:48,200 And then we experienced 2016 and the the rioting that took place 1327 01:14:48,280 --> 01:14:50,240 and no one who was in charge of do anything. 1328 01:14:50,240 --> 01:14:55,240 It was such a deja vu that. 2016 You know we're talking post 1329 01:14:55,240 --> 01:14:59,040 Freddie Gray This actually Ferguson 2020. 1330 01:14:59,040 --> 01:15:04,720 No, 20/20/16, no, but the, I mean after the, the, the 1331 01:15:04,720 --> 01:15:07,880 inauguration. In 2017, when when Trump was at. 1332 01:15:07,920 --> 01:15:09,520 He's right. He's right. 2017. 1333 01:15:09,720 --> 01:15:16,640 That's the 2016 election. It was that same feeling of why 1334 01:15:16,640 --> 01:15:19,680 are we letting everything just utterly go to go to hell now? 1335 01:15:20,360 --> 01:15:22,880 But but in retrospect, as a conservative and someone who 1336 01:15:22,880 --> 01:15:26,320 had, by virtually becoming orthodox again, as my roommate 1337 01:15:26,320 --> 01:15:29,920 had observed, I I now really had a consistent worldview for being 1338 01:15:29,920 --> 01:15:36,200 a bona fide social conservative. And you could I remember on the 1339 01:15:36,200 --> 01:15:38,760 right one of the things that had really bothered me. 1340 01:15:38,760 --> 01:15:42,200 I I've been active in the Federalist Society, which 1341 01:15:42,200 --> 01:15:44,840 everyone knows about, right? The lawyers, the conservative 1342 01:15:44,840 --> 01:15:50,040 lawyers, one of the some of the leading lights of the Federalist 1343 01:15:50,040 --> 01:15:56,080 Society though of the 90s were very involved in achieving same 1344 01:15:56,080 --> 01:16:01,480 sex marriage. And you know this was where the 1345 01:16:01,480 --> 01:16:04,000 libertarians and the cultural conservatives really parted 1346 01:16:04,000 --> 01:16:07,240 ways. And I, and this was, this is 1347 01:16:07,240 --> 01:16:13,080 something that has really never quite been examined because it's 1348 01:16:13,080 --> 01:16:14,720 uncomfortable for the conservative movement. 1349 01:16:16,200 --> 01:16:20,880 But I knew that there was a certain amount of rot there. 1350 01:16:22,280 --> 01:16:24,880 And besides, how pure can you really be? 1351 01:16:24,880 --> 01:16:28,680 We're part of the entertainment complex, the news complex, the 1352 01:16:28,680 --> 01:16:30,600 business complex, the government complex. 1353 01:16:30,920 --> 01:16:35,400 These are all severely compromised. 1354 01:16:36,200 --> 01:16:37,640 And I have a theme that I'm beginning to develop. 1355 01:16:37,640 --> 01:16:40,320 I might actually write. I might have really actually 1356 01:16:40,320 --> 01:16:46,080 found the book. We have been cursed with 1357 01:16:46,680 --> 01:16:50,800 abundance, and it's not some kind. 1358 01:16:50,800 --> 01:17:00,120 I'm not making some sort of vague connection between wealth 1359 01:17:00,240 --> 01:17:05,920 and or poverty and virtue, but rather saying a lot of the 1360 01:17:05,920 --> 01:17:10,040 things that when I said this sort of American optimism is 1361 01:17:10,880 --> 01:17:14,800 liberalism which turned into affirmative action, which turned 1362 01:17:14,800 --> 01:17:19,160 into DEI, which turned into anti war, explicit anti white racism. 1363 01:17:20,360 --> 01:17:25,360 There's enough to go around. There's so much freaking wealth 1364 01:17:25,640 --> 01:17:29,600 out there and so many people among the elites who are who 1365 01:17:29,600 --> 01:17:34,600 have learned how to absolutely glom onto it in ways that you 1366 01:17:34,600 --> 01:17:40,240 and I could only dream of that there was the sense that what's 1367 01:17:40,240 --> 01:17:43,400 the harm? So we'll let people into schools 1368 01:17:43,600 --> 01:17:46,000 who don't really belong there. They'll figure it out. 1369 01:17:46,280 --> 01:17:48,680 Meanwhile, we've our system works. 1370 01:17:48,800 --> 01:17:51,360 Everything works. And now it's 2024. 1371 01:17:51,360 --> 01:17:54,680 What do we see? I let's Who don't know what 1372 01:17:54,680 --> 01:17:58,720 they're doing? Doctors who are being trained on 1373 01:17:59,280 --> 01:18:01,960 wokeness instead of medicine. Right. 1374 01:18:03,640 --> 01:18:07,680 Entertainment companies like Disney unable to enunciate a 1375 01:18:07,680 --> 01:18:13,200 single rational creative work because of the damage that 1376 01:18:13,320 --> 01:18:18,080 because all these, whether it's in brand equity, I mean also 1377 01:18:18,080 --> 01:18:20,080 the, you know, the news and journalism business and 1378 01:18:20,640 --> 01:18:24,080 nothing's legit anymore. Nothing's legitimate. 1379 01:18:24,480 --> 01:18:27,200 Everything is compromised because we thought we had enough 1380 01:18:27,520 --> 01:18:35,640 fat enough extra that we could get away with moving away from 1381 01:18:35,640 --> 01:18:38,360 meritocracy. Now, there's a legitimate 1382 01:18:39,520 --> 01:18:43,600 argument that meritocracy is over soul. 1383 01:18:44,400 --> 01:18:48,920 After all, I went to Princeton, and what it took me many years 1384 01:18:48,920 --> 01:18:53,880 to learn was places like Princeton largely reinforce 1385 01:18:53,880 --> 01:18:57,680 existing social networks. They're not there to introduce 1386 01:18:57,680 --> 01:19:00,240 you and include you into new social networks. 1387 01:19:00,920 --> 01:19:03,360 True, I made friends and contacts I never would have 1388 01:19:03,360 --> 01:19:04,920 done. But those people were not 1389 01:19:04,920 --> 01:19:06,720 inviting me to their events. They were. 1390 01:19:06,720 --> 01:19:07,960 They were. I was not coming up to their 1391 01:19:07,960 --> 01:19:09,640 houses for the weekend. You weren't joining their 1392 01:19:09,640 --> 01:19:12,000 country clubs that have been. There for 200. 1393 01:19:12,000 --> 01:19:13,160 Years or whatever. That kind of thing. 1394 01:19:13,160 --> 01:19:17,960 That's right. So yes, there is a distinct 1395 01:19:18,160 --> 01:19:21,720 there's always been nepotism. There's always be that as it 1396 01:19:21,720 --> 01:19:30,040 may, We know that hypocrisy is the is the the the tribute vice 1397 01:19:30,040 --> 01:19:38,240 pays to virtue by at least holding out meritocracy as a 1398 01:19:38,240 --> 01:19:42,600 goal. We have a standard to say when 1399 01:19:43,160 --> 01:19:50,440 favoritism or nepotism or departures from a meritocratic 1400 01:19:50,480 --> 01:19:55,040 goal of achievement and capability and responsibility 1401 01:19:55,360 --> 01:19:58,120 are not being met, and then we can have the discussion based on 1402 01:19:58,120 --> 01:20:00,360 some baseline. What we've seen in the last 1403 01:20:00,360 --> 01:20:04,120 couple of years is you may not even assert the existence of a 1404 01:20:04,120 --> 01:20:06,520 baseline. That's the problem is the 1405 01:20:06,520 --> 01:20:08,800 baseline for for people now. And you know, what's interesting 1406 01:20:08,800 --> 01:20:10,960 is that, and I keep saying it in a different way, but I think 1407 01:20:10,960 --> 01:20:13,800 we're saying the same thing. In the same way that people 1408 01:20:13,800 --> 01:20:17,040 debase a currency which has a standard and you can depart from 1409 01:20:17,040 --> 01:20:20,160 it and you can cheapen the standard, which we've done, we 1410 01:20:20,160 --> 01:20:22,680 also debased all of our institutions in that same way. 1411 01:20:22,680 --> 01:20:24,720 And you're saying it is a departure from meritocracy. 1412 01:20:24,880 --> 01:20:27,600 I'm saying people have basically they've they've traded away 1413 01:20:27,600 --> 01:20:30,200 their credibility and to the point where. 1414 01:20:30,280 --> 01:20:32,920 They don't have a great, a great display of that. 1415 01:20:32,920 --> 01:20:36,480 So the Supreme Court I have actually, look, I've been 1416 01:20:36,480 --> 01:20:39,520 disappointed in the Supreme Court plenty over the last 10 1417 01:20:39,520 --> 01:20:45,760 years, the incrementalism, the all the things. 1418 01:20:47,040 --> 01:20:53,040 But one thing I did say was I do believe there is a sense of 1419 01:20:53,040 --> 01:20:57,280 seriousness retained in the Supreme Court, having stood in 1420 01:20:57,280 --> 01:21:05,280 the well there that has been lost in most of the courts where 1421 01:21:05,280 --> 01:21:09,120 I practice on a more regular basis. 1422 01:21:10,200 --> 01:21:15,080 So I don't know how long your delay is between recording and. 1423 01:21:15,920 --> 01:21:17,080 Yeah, we're going to play this in a couple days. 1424 01:21:17,080 --> 01:21:18,760 So folks, this will still be fresh enough for folks. 1425 01:21:18,920 --> 01:21:21,520 So today, of course is Monday the 4th. 1426 01:21:21,840 --> 01:21:26,800 And the Supreme Court ruled unanimously that this taking 1427 01:21:26,800 --> 01:21:33,280 Trump off the ballots because some, either local trial judge 1428 01:21:33,280 --> 01:21:36,520 or some state official, like a Secretary of State, has decided 1429 01:21:36,520 --> 01:21:38,520 that he engaged in insurrection and they're going to 1430 01:21:38,840 --> 01:21:42,880 unilaterally declare that. That being the same as the Civil 1431 01:21:42,880 --> 01:21:46,080 War. OK, 9. 1432 01:21:46,080 --> 01:21:54,910 Nothing. How many commentators, 1433 01:21:56,150 --> 01:22:01,870 distinguished professors, leaders in civil rights law and 1434 01:22:01,870 --> 01:22:07,390 constitutional law signed their names to predictions that Trump 1435 01:22:07,390 --> 01:22:11,910 would lose on this appeal? Yeah. 1436 01:22:12,640 --> 01:22:15,120 It's and it was shocking. It's shocking because it's such 1437 01:22:15,120 --> 01:22:18,480 a dumb, obvious statement. It's like there's no way the 1438 01:22:18,480 --> 01:22:21,520 court retains any legitimacy and rules in favor of what they 1439 01:22:21,520 --> 01:22:24,080 thought I. And and and to some extent this 1440 01:22:24,080 --> 01:22:27,160 is also an answer to well, you know that incrementalism, Ron, 1441 01:22:27,160 --> 01:22:32,200 that you are so critical is of instead over caution gives that 1442 01:22:32,200 --> 01:22:37,560 court the remainder of a backbone to do this. 1443 01:22:37,560 --> 01:22:40,280 Even when all the elites are saying, of course they're not 1444 01:22:40,280 --> 01:22:45,760 going to do this. Even to the extent that justices 1445 01:22:45,760 --> 01:22:51,000 who from whom we do not expect particularly rigorous work, one 1446 01:22:51,000 --> 01:22:53,240 of whom has admitted that she doesn't know the difference 1447 01:22:53,240 --> 01:23:01,360 between boys and girls, actually feel obligated to do their jobs. 1448 01:23:03,440 --> 01:23:06,600 It was too much of A shock to to do this ridiculous like this was 1449 01:23:06,600 --> 01:23:10,360 a step too far even for them. Look, it's an it's an amazing 1450 01:23:10,360 --> 01:23:15,360 thing that we live to see it. But look who they've left behind 1451 01:23:15,360 --> 01:23:17,120 now. And now you have an entire 1452 01:23:17,120 --> 01:23:23,080 sector of society that believes that a, there there's one 1453 01:23:23,160 --> 01:23:25,800 Supreme Court Justice who happens to be the black, the 1454 01:23:25,800 --> 01:23:30,320 black one, the the black male who shouldn't even be allowed to 1455 01:23:31,040 --> 01:23:35,320 decide cases because of some preposterous thing they they 1456 01:23:35,320 --> 01:23:39,960 cooked up. And which is largely coextensive 1457 01:23:39,960 --> 01:23:46,080 with a group that believes that the entire Supreme Court is MAGA 1458 01:23:46,080 --> 01:23:48,840 extremists, including Justice Jackson. 1459 01:23:51,000 --> 01:23:53,720 Judge Sotomayor, I mean. Having listened to their bump 1460 01:23:53,720 --> 01:23:55,720 stock arguments and their questions which they brought 1461 01:23:55,720 --> 01:23:58,200 their fantasy world to to play. And I you know, I don't listen 1462 01:23:58,200 --> 01:23:59,800 to oral arguments to the Supreme Court all the time. 1463 01:23:59,800 --> 01:24:02,720 But when I happened to be an expert on things like firearms 1464 01:24:02,720 --> 01:24:05,520 and their and their and the way that they work, which I am 1465 01:24:05,680 --> 01:24:08,520 compared to any of them on the court for sure, compared to most 1466 01:24:08,520 --> 01:24:10,040 people. You know, I've I've built them. 1467 01:24:10,040 --> 01:24:11,720 I've taken them down to the springs. 1468 01:24:11,720 --> 01:24:14,200 I can pick up a spring and tell you usually what what weapon 1469 01:24:14,200 --> 01:24:15,840 system it comes from. Not very many people to. 1470 01:24:15,880 --> 01:24:18,480 That now you had a very good shooting range story for me on 1471 01:24:18,480 --> 01:24:20,560 my podcast. It turns out, yeah, I I know a 1472 01:24:20,560 --> 01:24:21,720 little bit about that, that world. 1473 01:24:21,720 --> 01:24:24,400 And when you watch a justice come in and say the purpose of 1474 01:24:24,400 --> 01:24:27,280 the function of the trigger, which is the operative term 1475 01:24:27,400 --> 01:24:30,920 right in the in the discussion of of the Firearms Act of 1934 1476 01:24:31,360 --> 01:24:34,240 or the national. Yeah, the NFA, she said it's to 1477 01:24:34,280 --> 01:24:38,320 to initiate a chemical reaction. And that's objectively false. 1478 01:24:38,320 --> 01:24:40,480 There are multiple things in the chain that is, you know, 1479 01:24:40,480 --> 01:24:43,600 sometime down the the the cause, the the chain of events that 1480 01:24:43,600 --> 01:24:47,440 happened, but not always. In fact, as I I want to do on my 1481 01:24:47,440 --> 01:24:49,600 podcast, sometimes I have one right here. 1482 01:24:49,720 --> 01:24:52,080 We have a weapon system that is empty and there's nothing in it. 1483 01:24:52,240 --> 01:24:53,560 And this is the function of the trigger. 1484 01:24:53,560 --> 01:24:57,080 And you'll notice its job is to make the click, which is a 1485 01:24:57,080 --> 01:24:59,080 hammer going forward. That's the that's the function 1486 01:24:59,080 --> 01:25:00,680 of the trigger. I can debunk what she said right 1487 01:25:00,680 --> 01:25:01,600 there. They won't let you bring a gun 1488 01:25:01,600 --> 01:25:03,800 into court, but that's the function of the trigger. 1489 01:25:03,800 --> 01:25:07,000 That trigger functions properly. So she's wrong, but she brought 1490 01:25:07,000 --> 01:25:08,640 that to bear anyway. And then for that Lady to be a 1491 01:25:08,640 --> 01:25:10,400 MAGA stream is is hilarious to me. 1492 01:25:11,080 --> 01:25:14,400 It it reminds me one to one honestly, 51 intelligence 1493 01:25:14,400 --> 01:25:16,080 officials, this has all the hallmarks of Russian 1494 01:25:16,080 --> 01:25:18,800 disinformation. And then it didn't because that 1495 01:25:18,800 --> 01:25:20,800 was made-up. This is the same sort of 1496 01:25:20,800 --> 01:25:23,880 debasement, I think, for you to put your name to this opinion. 1497 01:25:24,440 --> 01:25:26,880 That's, that's right. And, and, and the reason, again, 1498 01:25:26,880 --> 01:25:30,120 you know, someone just decided to stop in the middle of this, 1499 01:25:30,800 --> 01:25:34,720 you know, video and say, oh, they're talking about the usual 1500 01:25:34,720 --> 01:25:37,160 MAGA complaints about, you know, how the world's gone to hell. 1501 01:25:37,160 --> 01:25:40,280 No, no. This is a very specific point 1502 01:25:40,280 --> 01:25:42,400 and very relevant to what we've been talking about all along, 1503 01:25:42,400 --> 01:25:50,040 which is, yes, a systematic debasement of meaning of the 1504 01:25:50,040 --> 01:25:55,080 very idea that there are boundaries, that there are 1505 01:25:55,320 --> 01:26:01,160 governing standards that adults should be prepared to apply. 1506 01:26:01,320 --> 01:26:09,160 I remember the big I guess it was one of the banking 1507 01:26:09,160 --> 01:26:13,920 meltdowns. And as an economics major, I 1508 01:26:13,920 --> 01:26:19,840 learned all about moral hazard. And you just know, every time 1509 01:26:19,840 --> 01:26:22,080 there's going to be some kind of whether there was the savings 1510 01:26:22,080 --> 01:26:26,920 and loan crisis, whatever limit the FDIC said was the limit, 1511 01:26:27,800 --> 01:26:30,040 Congress would say no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. 1512 01:26:32,160 --> 01:26:35,760 Any amount you have, we we, we got you covered. 1513 01:26:36,640 --> 01:26:41,360 There are no consequences there. I mean, think of how our 1514 01:26:41,360 --> 01:26:46,440 government operates now. No one is held responsible for 1515 01:26:46,720 --> 01:26:49,600 anything. Even when that person is 1516 01:26:50,200 --> 01:26:54,600 personally responsible for something going terribly wrong. 1517 01:26:54,720 --> 01:26:59,240 There's zero accountability. You don't win wars that way, 1518 01:26:59,360 --> 01:27:01,280 Greatest generation, but that's the will, you. 1519 01:27:01,440 --> 01:27:02,720 That's what they bequeathed to us. 1520 01:27:03,240 --> 01:27:05,000 OK, this is where I wanted to end. 1521 01:27:06,080 --> 01:27:07,960 You just said something that I hadn't thought of because of the 1522 01:27:08,000 --> 01:27:10,520 Greatest Generation gets a pass on almost everybody's book. 1523 01:27:10,520 --> 01:27:12,120 They always want to blame the boomers. 1524 01:27:12,600 --> 01:27:15,240 And I kind of have have listened to that and it made a lot of 1525 01:27:15,240 --> 01:27:16,360 sense. It's like, yeah, the boomers 1526 01:27:16,560 --> 01:27:20,000 were the people that were busy doing their careers or cocaine 1527 01:27:20,000 --> 01:27:22,280 or whatever was going on in the 80s, and they allowed things to 1528 01:27:22,280 --> 01:27:24,200 happen the way that they did. And so the world went the way it 1529 01:27:24,200 --> 01:27:25,160 went. They were raised by their. 1530 01:27:25,160 --> 01:27:29,440 Parody, it turns out most likely right this this idea that as 1531 01:27:29,440 --> 01:27:33,320 these social revolutions were happening, the group of folks 1532 01:27:33,320 --> 01:27:36,680 that went overseas and won World War 2 liberated Europe in very 1533 01:27:36,680 --> 01:27:39,440 young ages, came over here and then ignored. 1534 01:27:39,720 --> 01:27:41,800 They went back to work. They shut their mouths, they put 1535 01:27:41,800 --> 01:27:44,320 their head down and they try to accomplish and build businesses 1536 01:27:44,320 --> 01:27:47,760 and do the things that they did. But that generation essentially 1537 01:27:47,760 --> 01:27:54,200 let a a a misbehaving teenager let's call it of the American 1538 01:27:54,200 --> 01:27:58,760 youth run the show and we are now seeing it happen in the same 1539 01:27:58,760 --> 01:28:01,400 way. So the question I I think and I 1540 01:28:01,400 --> 01:28:03,680 guess every generation is to blame every time one of these 1541 01:28:03,680 --> 01:28:06,000 things happens because my generation now in the 40s, we 1542 01:28:06,000 --> 01:28:09,360 are now the folks that my generation went to war for a 1543 01:28:09,360 --> 01:28:11,400 very different reason but came back. 1544 01:28:11,440 --> 01:28:13,800 A lot of folks that are listening to the show right now 1545 01:28:14,000 --> 01:28:17,640 have either lost limbs, have lost loved ones have given a lot 1546 01:28:17,680 --> 01:28:19,680 for this country even if those were for bad reasons. 1547 01:28:19,680 --> 01:28:21,720 Even if we look at it in the past and go, we don't think 1548 01:28:21,720 --> 01:28:23,640 those were you know just or or ethical wars. 1549 01:28:23,880 --> 01:28:26,320 They were fought and the skills that picked up and the hardship 1550 01:28:26,320 --> 01:28:27,880 that was endured were real regardless. 1551 01:28:28,560 --> 01:28:32,720 And when that happens is it time for my 40 something year old 1552 01:28:32,720 --> 01:28:37,960 generation to start putting putting the the consequences to 1553 01:28:37,960 --> 01:28:40,560 these 20 somethings that are basically unruly teenagers that 1554 01:28:40,560 --> 01:28:43,240 are acting out and and seem like they're desperately in need of 1555 01:28:43,240 --> 01:28:45,120 boundaries. Is that where the the line has 1556 01:28:45,120 --> 01:28:46,760 to? Because it sounds like the The 1557 01:28:46,760 --> 01:28:47,960 Greatest Generation may have missed it. 1558 01:28:49,440 --> 01:28:51,440 Let's put it this way. Those children of the Greatest 1559 01:28:51,440 --> 01:28:58,760 Generation are the octogenarians who are running everything. 1560 01:28:58,760 --> 01:29:04,720 Still, you're the people your age are the ones who should be 1561 01:29:05,920 --> 01:29:11,000 coming into their own, and instead what they have done is 1562 01:29:11,000 --> 01:29:15,800 signed up for a system in which as long as they get a big piece 1563 01:29:15,800 --> 01:29:18,920 of the pie, they don't care who's in charge. 1564 01:29:19,240 --> 01:29:23,280 And remember Joe Biden was chosen specifically to be the 1565 01:29:23,280 --> 01:29:27,160 person regarding whom it doesn't matter who's in charge because 1566 01:29:27,160 --> 01:29:29,760 he would not in fact be in charge. 1567 01:29:31,440 --> 01:29:37,760 Meaning that as as going down to what you said, the 40 somethings 1568 01:29:37,760 --> 01:29:40,760 and 50 somethings who should be in charge in that are being 1569 01:29:40,800 --> 01:29:43,080 bought off. Look, I was once in AI, once 1570 01:29:43,680 --> 01:29:47,200 almost tasted. Well, I once was in a law firm 1571 01:29:47,200 --> 01:29:49,480 that was very, very profitable, small law firm. 1572 01:29:50,800 --> 01:29:57,320 And it began to occur to me that they were not and I was an 1573 01:29:57,320 --> 01:29:59,640 equity partner. They were not dealing faithfully 1574 01:29:59,640 --> 01:30:03,240 with me. They were withholding 1575 01:30:03,240 --> 01:30:09,160 information from me that was relevant to they had no right to 1576 01:30:09,160 --> 01:30:09,960 withhold. But they were not. 1577 01:30:09,960 --> 01:30:11,160 They were not playing fair with me. 1578 01:30:12,280 --> 01:30:14,520 And I left that law firm and I never made that kind of money 1579 01:30:14,520 --> 01:30:18,760 again. They couldn't believe it. 1580 01:30:18,840 --> 01:30:22,600 Why would you run? We were paying you so much to do 1581 01:30:22,600 --> 01:30:26,720 what you do here. Why would you complain about 1582 01:30:26,720 --> 01:30:31,160 these insults to yourself? Respect. 1583 01:30:34,320 --> 01:30:38,520 And many, many people would ask the same question. 1584 01:30:40,320 --> 01:30:47,000 Answer is you can't buy me, you can't buy me. 1585 01:30:47,640 --> 01:30:50,680 And I didn't go through everything I've gone through in 1586 01:30:50,680 --> 01:30:57,480 my life, which is why people's problems all the way down, OK. 1587 01:30:57,920 --> 01:31:01,520 But what my parents and grandparents went through to 1588 01:31:01,520 --> 01:31:06,120 enable me to live the life that I do today and to have the 1589 01:31:06,120 --> 01:31:09,560 healthy family that I have and to make a living even if I can't 1590 01:31:09,560 --> 01:31:13,440 have the wealth. And to you know to have a little 1591 01:31:13,440 --> 01:31:17,200 bit of thought leadership role in a little tiny part of the 1592 01:31:17,240 --> 01:31:22,960 intellectual you know world because I have things to say and 1593 01:31:23,200 --> 01:31:26,680 and I'm going to put my name on them and get involved in sexy 1594 01:31:26,680 --> 01:31:30,320 cases from time to time and sharing a big win for all the 1595 01:31:30,320 --> 01:31:34,400 many losses because we we do tilted windmills quite a bit in 1596 01:31:34,400 --> 01:31:43,240 in in in my little little spot I wouldn't have gotten to do any 1597 01:31:43,240 --> 01:31:46,560 of those things and I would have to give up all those things and 1598 01:31:46,560 --> 01:31:48,160 I left. I had to leave two other law 1599 01:31:48,160 --> 01:31:52,960 firms because I was because of controversial social media cases 1600 01:31:53,320 --> 01:31:55,600 or or political cases that I took on. 1601 01:31:56,960 --> 01:31:59,680 That's what life is about. Meaning goes back to the 1602 01:31:59,680 --> 01:32:03,480 beginning of our conversation. It's about meaning and to be 1603 01:32:03,480 --> 01:32:07,200 bought off. I don't care if Joe Biden. 1604 01:32:08,680 --> 01:32:10,360 I don't care if Joe Biden's not really in charge. 1605 01:32:10,360 --> 01:32:12,360 I don't care if he's realized this. 1606 01:32:13,160 --> 01:32:19,400 He's obviously senile. He's obviously senile and the 1607 01:32:19,400 --> 01:32:25,400 people around him, the 40 and 50 somethings around him, are just 1608 01:32:25,640 --> 01:32:28,240 fine with it. And the people in the press room 1609 01:32:28,960 --> 01:32:32,280 were given scripted questions to ask and who he calls on, 1610 01:32:32,280 --> 01:32:35,120 according to his his, you know, cheat cards. 1611 01:32:36,000 --> 01:32:40,240 They're fine with it. They're making ridiculous money. 1612 01:32:40,720 --> 01:32:42,920 They're all available to be bought. 1613 01:32:43,880 --> 01:32:49,920 Every single person who looks at your career and says Kyle 1614 01:32:49,920 --> 01:32:51,960 Serafin, there's a guy who wouldn't be bought. 1615 01:32:52,480 --> 01:32:54,040 He's not going to make more money. 1616 01:32:54,680 --> 01:32:58,320 But eleven people call you a grifter because you try to you 1617 01:32:58,400 --> 01:33:00,720 you want to do a podcast and maybe you want to get a sponsor 1618 01:33:00,920 --> 01:33:03,880 or maybe you want to monetize. You know, on a grifter. 1619 01:33:05,920 --> 01:33:09,040 You don't have the slightest inkling of what I've given up 1620 01:33:09,040 --> 01:33:12,160 for principal and now you want to deny me the ability to to 1621 01:33:12,160 --> 01:33:15,800 bring in 5 bucks a monthly subscription and you're going to 1622 01:33:15,800 --> 01:33:17,040 call me a grifter. That's it. 1623 01:33:17,720 --> 01:33:19,440 Anonymously. Anonymously. 1624 01:33:20,840 --> 01:33:21,760 Keep doing what you're doing, Kyle. 1625 01:33:22,200 --> 01:33:24,680 It's that's really fun stuff too. 1626 01:33:24,800 --> 01:33:27,960 There's something very amusing about people calling out with, 1627 01:33:28,440 --> 01:33:30,520 like you say, calling you out on social media with this sort of 1628 01:33:30,520 --> 01:33:32,120 nonsense. It's like #1. 1629 01:33:32,880 --> 01:33:34,880 I've already shown you that I I did the math on it. 1630 01:33:34,880 --> 01:33:36,480 You'll appreciate this. You do the math on what your 1631 01:33:36,480 --> 01:33:38,880 career is worth. If you have a constant income 1632 01:33:38,880 --> 01:33:41,520 with a steady growth and the curve is predictable and then 1633 01:33:41,520 --> 01:33:44,080 you have a pension and that's predictable as well and adjusted 1634 01:33:44,080 --> 01:33:45,760 for inflation, etcetera, etcetera, you can do it out. 1635 01:33:45,760 --> 01:33:48,480 It's about $5,000,000 with the benefits and paychecks that I, I 1636 01:33:48,480 --> 01:33:50,240 walked away from. And and that's not that much 1637 01:33:50,240 --> 01:33:51,680 money. I mean, it's a lot of money to 1638 01:33:51,680 --> 01:33:53,440 me. It's a lot of money to a lot of 1639 01:33:53,440 --> 01:33:54,680 people. But that's not like the kind of 1640 01:33:54,680 --> 01:33:57,440 money that you could buy my soul for because I, I don't know what 1641 01:33:57,440 --> 01:33:59,600 my cost is, but it's a lot higher than that. 1642 01:33:59,720 --> 01:34:01,840 And so you think I'm going to sell it out for 5 bucks a person 1643 01:34:01,840 --> 01:34:03,840 on a subscription or for 500 bucks for a tweet, which 1644 01:34:03,840 --> 01:34:06,240 somebody accused me once of that we were taking money for tweets. 1645 01:34:06,240 --> 01:34:08,840 It's like you got to have you lost your ever loving mind you. 1646 01:34:08,920 --> 01:34:10,920 I went for an entire year without a paycheck. 1647 01:34:11,360 --> 01:34:14,320 Like, I went for a whole year where I just didn't quit until 1648 01:34:14,320 --> 01:34:16,840 the FBI showed up with a letter that said we're investigating 1649 01:34:16,840 --> 01:34:19,160 you for 13 different charges, including a felony. 1650 01:34:19,640 --> 01:34:21,160 And I went like, well, that's not real. 1651 01:34:21,160 --> 01:34:23,360 And I'm not going to be an internal affairs investigation 1652 01:34:23,360 --> 01:34:25,760 for you and make it any easier. So my attorney and I had this 1653 01:34:25,840 --> 01:34:27,800 like easy conversation where it's like all right dude, he 1654 01:34:27,800 --> 01:34:29,600 goes there's nothing that you're going to benefit from doing 1655 01:34:29,600 --> 01:34:31,760 this. By the way they accused me of 1656 01:34:31,760 --> 01:34:34,960 things like having my podcast and putting a an upside down 1657 01:34:34,960 --> 01:34:37,280 picture of the badge like you see spinning there as a federal 1658 01:34:37,360 --> 01:34:39,680 that was that was a misdemeanor according to them which is 1659 01:34:39,680 --> 01:34:41,240 absurd. These are publicly available 1660 01:34:41,240 --> 01:34:42,800 designs. I mean we pay for them with our 1661 01:34:42,800 --> 01:34:45,000 tax stock anyway. Actually that that'd be an 1662 01:34:45,000 --> 01:34:46,960 interesting sort of trademark discussion at some other time 1663 01:34:46,960 --> 01:34:48,680 the the the federal badge being used. 1664 01:34:49,280 --> 01:34:54,040 But what a weird moment and and it all comes down to lack of 1665 01:34:54,040 --> 01:34:57,840 values and I I have to believe if you believe that there's a 1666 01:34:57,840 --> 01:35:00,960 God and there's accountability at the end and that you're 1667 01:35:01,120 --> 01:35:03,960 you're going to be meant to explain. 1668 01:35:03,960 --> 01:35:06,080 I I always say we're accountable for every round that we send 1669 01:35:06,080 --> 01:35:08,280 downrange. That means verbally that means 1670 01:35:08,280 --> 01:35:10,240 you know a weapon system doesn't make a difference. 1671 01:35:10,360 --> 01:35:13,080 Whatever you're shooting downrange, you're accountable. 1672 01:35:13,080 --> 01:35:14,360 That's yours. Own it. 1673 01:35:15,480 --> 01:35:17,320 And if you're there's. A judge and there's judgement. 1674 01:35:17,840 --> 01:35:19,800 There's a judge and there's judgment that that's exactly it. 1675 01:35:19,800 --> 01:35:21,560 And at the end of the day, if you think that you're going to 1676 01:35:21,560 --> 01:35:23,920 be accountable for all those things and it's cool for you to 1677 01:35:23,920 --> 01:35:26,760 ask soft questions and be a Gavin Newsom who pretends like 1678 01:35:26,760 --> 01:35:28,960 Joe Biden is so tough that you couldn't even keep up with him 1679 01:35:28,960 --> 01:35:31,480 on his schedule or whatever other phony thing they've said. 1680 01:35:31,480 --> 01:35:33,040 Saturday Night Live made fun of this, by the way. 1681 01:35:33,800 --> 01:35:35,680 Did you see that? No, no. 1682 01:35:35,680 --> 01:35:38,920 I will send you a link. They they they had this pretty 1683 01:35:38,920 --> 01:35:42,440 white lady, whoever she has the guest house who just lampooned 1684 01:35:42,440 --> 01:35:44,040 all of these leftists. They're like, now we're going to 1685 01:35:44,040 --> 01:35:46,040 go to someone from the Golden State Warriors who said he's 1686 01:35:46,040 --> 01:35:47,720 like, oh, Joe Biden. Don't tell me it was 1687 01:35:47,720 --> 01:35:49,600 disrespectful. He did a windmill like like 1688 01:35:49,600 --> 01:35:52,600 they're they're they have to debase themselves to act like 1689 01:35:52,600 --> 01:35:53,520 something that we know is not true. 1690 01:35:53,520 --> 01:35:56,000 Same way they talked about Ruth Bader, Ginsmer Ginsburg by the 1691 01:35:56,000 --> 01:35:58,880 way that she was working out so hard that 25 year old 1692 01:35:58,880 --> 01:35:59,960 journalists couldn't keep up with her. 1693 01:35:59,960 --> 01:36:02,880 I want to put a bullet in my brain when I hear that stuff. 1694 01:36:02,920 --> 01:36:04,160 That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. 1695 01:36:04,400 --> 01:36:06,920 It's embarrassing. And and they're not embarrassed 1696 01:36:06,920 --> 01:36:10,320 and they'll know that we know that they're lying and when 1697 01:36:10,320 --> 01:36:14,400 everything is negotiable. Yeah, there's there's no 1698 01:36:14,400 --> 01:36:17,360 concrete standard and that's the opposite of Western society and 1699 01:36:17,360 --> 01:36:19,680 and all of western civilization been based on a standard. 1700 01:36:19,680 --> 01:36:21,360 What is of what it's supposed to be anyway? 1701 01:36:21,680 --> 01:36:25,080 There's always been that tension, but you're supposed to 1702 01:36:25,080 --> 01:36:27,840 aspire to do. Better. 1703 01:36:29,600 --> 01:36:31,560 And he said it any better, that's it. 1704 01:36:31,560 --> 01:36:33,400 Can't be bought. I appreciate you jumping on with 1705 01:36:33,400 --> 01:36:34,480 me. Let me throw this up on here. 1706 01:36:34,480 --> 01:36:35,920 What's the best way? What do you like people to come? 1707 01:36:35,920 --> 01:36:37,280 Do you like to mix it up on Twitter best? 1708 01:36:37,600 --> 01:36:39,800 Find it on Twitter events. Then you're going to get 1709 01:36:39,800 --> 01:36:41,200 everything else shoved in your face. 1710 01:36:41,200 --> 01:36:43,280 If you come, if you. If you, if you get the Twitter. 1711 01:36:43,280 --> 01:36:45,080 Yeah. And plus, I've got the spelling 1712 01:36:45,080 --> 01:36:47,000 there. I've got, you know, I've been on 1713 01:36:47,000 --> 01:36:50,440 Twitter taking up taking up real estate for quite some time and I 1714 01:36:50,440 --> 01:36:52,920 have a lot of fun. I appreciate your hot takes. 1715 01:36:53,280 --> 01:36:55,640 I appreciate that you're reverend and can't be bought. 1716 01:36:55,720 --> 01:36:57,120 Thanks for joining me today. That was fun. 1717 01:36:57,120 --> 01:36:58,640 That got more serious than I thought, that we're going to 1718 01:36:58,640 --> 01:37:01,080 have more silliness, but the world is too serious sometimes, 1719 01:37:01,080 --> 01:37:02,320 especially on this I really want. 1720 01:37:02,320 --> 01:37:04,680 Fun. They can go to the culmination 1721 01:37:04,960 --> 01:37:06,960 episode we did have. We didn't laugh a lot. 1722 01:37:07,000 --> 01:37:08,040 We laughed. We cried. 1723 01:37:08,800 --> 01:37:10,800 I went back and watched that whole episode again. 1724 01:37:10,920 --> 01:37:13,400 Just so you know, I watched it again by myself and laughed at 1725 01:37:13,400 --> 01:37:15,400 myself telling jokes that I had already told. 1726 01:37:15,640 --> 01:37:16,880 That's how much fun I had with it. 1727 01:37:17,120 --> 01:37:18,840 That is fun. That's a high level of fun, 1728 01:37:18,840 --> 01:37:20,080 ladies and gentlemen. It didn't. 1729 01:37:20,800 --> 01:37:25,320 That's it, Ron. Thanks for joining everybody. 1730 01:37:25,560 --> 01:37:27,040 I hope we do this again. Thanks, bud. 1731 01:37:27,040 --> 01:37:30,160 All right, ladies and gentlemen, and that is the game. 1732 01:37:30,560 --> 01:37:33,560 Thanks to Ron Coleman for joining me and a really 1733 01:37:33,680 --> 01:37:35,600 interesting character. And you definitely have to go 1734 01:37:35,600 --> 01:37:37,240 check out that version that we did. 1735 01:37:37,720 --> 01:37:38,640 All right. And that is it. 1736 01:37:38,720 --> 01:37:40,240 That is the interview of the day. 1737 01:37:40,280 --> 01:37:42,480 You are midweek on Weird Wednesday, and I hope that you 1738 01:37:42,480 --> 01:37:44,320 guys have a not so weird Wednesday. 1739 01:37:44,320 --> 01:37:46,120 I want to do a couple things before we ended up here. 1740 01:37:46,120 --> 01:37:48,960 Let's say thanks to my buddy Garrett for continuing to put 1741 01:37:48,960 --> 01:37:50,560 out cool merch for you guys. He's doing the best. 1742 01:37:50,560 --> 01:37:54,320 He he's a one man operation. Be patient with my buddy who is 1743 01:37:54,320 --> 01:37:57,480 slinging merch, including those T-shirts, including the new Kyle 1744 01:37:57,480 --> 01:37:59,600 Serif and Show T-shirt which should start shipping pretty 1745 01:37:59,600 --> 01:38:01,880 soon. It's the Dash suspendables.com 1746 01:38:01,880 --> 01:38:03,840 that's the website for Suspendables merch. 1747 01:38:03,840 --> 01:38:06,360 It's the, I don't know, the Suspendables gift shop if you 1748 01:38:06,360 --> 01:38:08,520 want to call it that. It is the O'boyle family 1749 01:38:08,520 --> 01:38:11,000 sweatshop, the Dash suspendables.com. 1750 01:38:11,200 --> 01:38:13,680 You can use my name as a promo code and you'll save a couple of 1751 01:38:13,680 --> 01:38:14,840 bucks. It just takes a little bit more 1752 01:38:14,840 --> 01:38:17,080 off the off the totals. We understand that times are 1753 01:38:17,080 --> 01:38:18,920 tough. Nobody benefits from that, at 1754 01:38:19,160 --> 01:38:21,640 least not from this show. That actually goes 100% to 1755 01:38:21,640 --> 01:38:24,520 support a permanently suspended FBI whistleblower who's doing 1756 01:38:24,520 --> 01:38:26,000 the right thing. He can't quit folks. 1757 01:38:26,000 --> 01:38:28,640 If he quits and takes another job, the FBI wins and that's 1758 01:38:28,640 --> 01:38:30,440 what he's doing. So this is his wife's company 1759 01:38:30,640 --> 01:38:33,360 and they're out there pressing out shirts in order to keep you 1760 01:38:33,360 --> 01:38:38,960 guys showing support Physically, visibly and physically. 1761 01:38:39,040 --> 01:38:40,960 Is that is that a thing? Physically, I'll just make that 1762 01:38:40,960 --> 01:38:41,640 up. Yeah. 1763 01:38:41,840 --> 01:38:44,720 Support the Dash suspendables.com by going over 1764 01:38:44,720 --> 01:38:45,960 there, you guys can pick up the pins. 1765 01:38:45,960 --> 01:38:47,600 You can pick up the the shirts and so on. 1766 01:38:47,840 --> 01:38:49,400 I think the hoodies are basically almost done. 1767 01:38:49,400 --> 01:38:51,000 Maybe there's a few more of the light duty ones. 1768 01:38:51,280 --> 01:38:52,520 And I think the hats are done for this run. 1769 01:38:52,520 --> 01:38:55,040 There's going to be another run in any case, New stickers coming 1770 01:38:55,040 --> 01:38:57,600 in, new PVC patches, all that kind of stuff. 1771 01:38:58,040 --> 01:38:59,440 The Dash suspendables.com. All right. 1772 01:38:59,520 --> 01:39:01,680 Five star review and then we'll get ourselves out of here. 1773 01:39:01,840 --> 01:39:04,640 Here's a good one. We're we're kind of changing the 1774 01:39:04,640 --> 01:39:07,440 game a little bit. I'm taking it from Spotify, so 1775 01:39:07,440 --> 01:39:10,000 this one came in a couple days ago, says good afternoon, Sir. 1776 01:39:10,000 --> 01:39:11,920 Thank you for all that you've done for our country. 1777 01:39:12,080 --> 01:39:13,560 You've been listening. I've been listening to your 1778 01:39:13,560 --> 01:39:15,520 podcast for a few weeks. Really enjoy the podcast. 1779 01:39:15,520 --> 01:39:19,000 The truth we present. The truth you present getting 1780 01:39:19,000 --> 01:39:21,240 ahead of myself and corruption exposed. 1781 01:39:21,240 --> 01:39:24,280 And that's from I in or maybe it's I in. 1782 01:39:24,840 --> 01:39:26,560 Either way, thanks for the comment. 1783 01:39:26,680 --> 01:39:29,480 If you are listening on Spotify, you'll see that you're prompted 1784 01:39:29,880 --> 01:39:33,120 with a automatic comment from me, and that is to say, if you'd 1785 01:39:33,120 --> 01:39:35,920 like to contribute a question, a comment or a sarcastic remark, 1786 01:39:36,160 --> 01:39:37,600 I'm happy to see it. I approve all those. 1787 01:39:37,840 --> 01:39:39,520 I don't. I don't filter any of them. 1788 01:39:39,520 --> 01:39:41,480 So if you guys have something on there, it'll take a second for 1789 01:39:41,480 --> 01:39:43,880 me to put it through. But we want to acknowledge our 1790 01:39:43,880 --> 01:39:46,280 listeners on Spotify, which is our second biggest platform. 1791 01:39:46,480 --> 01:39:48,640 Thanks all of you who are leaving reviews on Apple, on 1792 01:39:48,640 --> 01:39:50,320 Spotify, on iHeartRadio and so on. 1793 01:39:50,480 --> 01:39:53,920 The comments below and the live chat that goes on every single 1794 01:39:53,920 --> 01:39:57,480 day here on rumble.com/kyle Serif and all the weekdays. 1795 01:39:58,000 --> 01:39:59,080 Thanks so much. Make sure you've given us a 1796 01:39:59,080 --> 01:40:00,560 like, make sure you're following, make sure you share 1797 01:40:00,560 --> 01:40:03,040 the show if there's something that tickled your fancy or 1798 01:40:03,040 --> 01:40:04,880 touched your heart. And we will see you again 1799 01:40:04,960 --> 01:40:08,280 tomorrow with a a really important interview, I think an 1800 01:40:08,280 --> 01:40:11,360 update with my friend. Davy Nelson. 1801 01:40:11,360 --> 01:40:13,680 So stick around. We'll see you in the morning. 1802 01:40:13,680 --> 01:40:14,560 God bless. Be safe. 1803 01:40:14,760 --> 01:40:16,640 See you soon. Thanks for listening to The Kyle 1804 01:40:16,640 --> 01:40:20,600 Serafin Show streamed live weekdays on rumble.com/kyle 1805 01:40:20,600 --> 01:40:22,880 Serafin. Follow Kyle on Twitter, Truth, 1806 01:40:22,880 --> 01:40:26,240 Social and Instagram at Kyle Serafin.