Prepare to hear the truth from a real whistleblower, an American
Patriot, here's civil liberties, enthusiasts, Second Amendment,
Defender and indefinitely suspended.
FBI agent. Kyle seraphin.
Hello my friends and welcome back to the Kyle Serafin show.
Today, we are going to have a wonderful interview.
Well, I hope it's going to be a wonderful interview.
It might just be Steve, just being Furious.
We've got Steve Baker on Fresh off his appearance on the Tucker
Carlson show. He is the pragmatic
constitutionalist formerly the pragmatic libertarian Podcast
host, he's an independent research in journalist, he's a
musician and a father but he he's also a target of the FBI.
It turns out. So as just sort of continuing
what we do here exposing more stories and malfeasance of the
FBI. Steve, thanks so much for
joining me today and I'm looking forward to hearing your story.
Thank you. Kyle's, good to be here.
Thanks for having me. I think we're gonna get into a
bunch of wild things. Including, what happens when the
FBI knocks on your door? Which I've usually been on the
other side of Producer. Phil has been on the other side
of, before we do that, I'm going to do a quick word out to our
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If that was a do will do it without any form or we're gonna
go right into it. Steve.
You live in North Carolina but you came from Louisiana.
Is that correct? That's correct.
I have been I was born and bred in Louisiana.
I've got healthy heaping, dose of Cajun in my blood, but I have
been in North Carolina for 30 years, this year, it's not her
fault. Long enough that I can
understand everything you're saying, which exactly what your
the case for people from Louisiana, I actually lost my
accent. My first touring job is as a
full-time musician was with a band that traveled
internationally and they early on asked me, if I would be the
actual MC for the band. I was only 19 years old and so I
would walk. I was a trumpet player and I was
always on the back line, but I would walk forward and I would
do the introductions and that sort of thing of the band when
it came that time of night, But they said, but you got to lose
that accent because we toured internationally and the
interpreters overseas couldn't understand the old the dialect.
And so I mid westernized, my Approach a little bit in my
dialect. Yeah.
That's that's a thing that people did for a long time, my
dad's from Rhinelander, Wisconsin.
And as you probably know people from Wisconsin have a certain
thing about their voices, you never know that.
But my out, my dad also spent 30 years in broadcast and you know,
did radio for a long time. And one of those things you
gotta learn how to get rid of if you want to be.
That's exactly right and you got that good Gravely based you sing
too, or no, I do. I'm a lead vocalist right now.
In two different bands, apart from being a trumpet player and
then just before covid came to town.
I had actually launched a David Bowie tribute act.
I was actually pretending every night to be David Bowie on
stage, so that was, that was the thing that's a thing in and of
itself. That's like a whole show though,
he could do about the David Bowie tribute of your You've got
a couple kids. Yeah, my kids are my kids are
grown. My son is a insanely gifted
musician. He's got ten times a talent.
I ever wished I could have he's he he takes out his musical
frustrations on guitars mainly. And then my daughter, she has
one of those jobs that if I told you what she did, she'd have to
shoot me if that and that's about all I can say about it.
That's all you need to say. Then we know about those kind of
things. Things as I used to tell people
when I work for the bureau in Washington, d.c., that's what I
did. And I said, I'm a secret agent
for the FBI and they go. I think you mean special agent
actually said no, everything says secret that I work on, I'm
pretty sure I'm a secret agent and and they didn't understand
it and people in the bureau didn't get it and that's why we
didn't get along as much as I wanted to because there's a
there's not a lot of sense of humor that's going on and you
experience some of that it sounds like as well.
How long have you been doing the kind of independent journalists
thing? And, and And running down
stories that you thought were important.
Well, I have been in the music business, my entire adult life.
In fact, as I said up, my first full-time gig on the road was 19
years old traveling, all over the world with that band.
And then I have performed not only with a variety of different
types of musical acts but I've also been involved in the music
industry as both a promoter, sometimes a artist management.
I've actually managed a couple of major label acts in.
My career and then about 20, something years ago, I started
jonesing to actually get back into the performance side of
thing. After a lot of years in the
business side and and I actually actually started taking private
lessons. Again at 39 years of age on
trumpet just to relearn how to how to get my chops back, and
that sort of thing. And so I have been performing as
a full-time musician for the last 20. 21 years as my primary
source of Of income, but for about 30 years, I've been
writing. Now, I was writing before that
and a lot of the articles that I would write at the time were
music business stories. And then, with the Advent of
CompuServe and AOL back in the early 90s, I started testing the
waters at my political Acumen because that was I've always
been a political junkie. And so I started Doing that sort
of thing in the chat rooms. And then, of course, AOL became
my space. And then, my space became
Facebook and Facebook became a Blog.
And, and there we go. And then on the in mid-march
here, three years ago, 2020, the government, I like to say,
weaponized me against them because they took my job away
from me for over 15 months. I wasn't allowed to work, I
wasn't allowed to earn an income.
And so, I took my hobby, my Asha.
My sideline passion, which was political commentary, and
Analysis is what I was doing. I used to say that I used to
write about the stupid stuff. Other people did and now I'm
doing the stupid stuff. But the, the point being is that
I suddenly had all of this time on my hands because of the
lockdowns. And I just decided for the first
time to monetize what I was doing.
And it became I, I literally told my followers at this point,
we had tens of thousands You know, internet social media
followers, and I told them, I'm moving that part of my brain to
the captain's chair now, and I'm moving the, the music side of my
brain, to the co-captains chair. And so that's what I've been
doing since since covid showed up.
Yeah, I think a lot of people had just a wildlife transition
that in some of it, some of it, I guess, goes against what the
government wanted, but it's their own fault for what they
created. And in that situation, how long
ago did you launch the podcast that you do?
Well, you know, I don't have a regular podcast but I do you
know, I do special shows well interviews and things of that
nature and that happened obviously during the lockdowns
as well. So it wasn't I was probably two
or three months into the realization that we weren't
going to, not going to be allowed to go back to work, for
some time that I bought the podcast gear and, and started
doing that we have very similar gear.
As people can see, if you're watching our humble show, you'll
see, we're using the same Mike's, we got the same
headphones, it's kind of the thing you grab, right?
Yeah, yeah. All right.
So they pushed you into a seat where you were going to be doing
more journalistic activities, even though that wasn't your gig
and and it became your gig in that way.
The music business is kind of a left-leaning corner
organization. How do you sit as a politically?
You said you're a Libertarian little L to me just a moment
ago. You know, how did you evolve
politically? And because even at a 19 year
old kid running around with a bunch of bands.
I would have to imagine that's a little bit more on the left than
generally speaking. Yeah.
But even Back then I'm probably the Elder statement and
Statesman in this group right here.
Right now, I've been around a few more decades.
Maybe we'll say it that way. So I started playing
professionally back in the 70s. So I'm giving myself away there.
And when that happened, we didn't care about politics in
that manner. I've been a political junkie
since I was eight years old. I remember on the playground,
third grade, Arguing with my classmates about whether it was
going to be Nixon, Humphrey or oh, gosh.
Now I can't believe I'm blanking.
The the Alabama Governor at the time who ran is the third party
guy. But, you know, I'm talking about
the, the point being is that we were, we were doing that sort of
thing. I was doing that sort of thing
at a very young age. So I was, I was always attracted
to politics and I was always a voracious reader as a child and
And politics for some reason, just really fascinated me but
particularly in history, the history of politics and
politicians, the famous American heroes and the founders that
sort of thing. So I was drawn into that early
on and then when I started my musical career a lot of that
began out of church, you know? So it was a lot more on the
Christian music, side of things at the time.
So there was a lot more particularly growing up in
Louisiana. A lot more conservatism.
Influencing the the world that I was moving in, but having said
that growing up in Louisiana at that time you either registered
as a Democrat or your vote didn't count.
So didn't matter how conservative you were you.
If you were going to have a vote, that counted, it only
counted in the primary because Republican had no chance back.
Then in the, The Old Dixie South as it was, it's gone.
George Wallace was the name. We were looking for George
Wallace. Thank you very much.
I can't believe I blank that So that's that's how the even I
even ran the, I even ran. The Lynyrd Skynyrd song through
my head, trying to see if I catch up where it is.
Yeah, you can't do that on the Fly doesn't play.
Right. So, so moving and progressing
from there, I began to find out that I had a lot of problems
with just the establishment unit party system is as it has
basically become now and I remember having a conversation
in the mid-90s with a caller from in a fundraising RoboCop
wasn't robocall, but somebody called me from the GOP, doing a
fundraising call and I'd been donating to candidates and that
sort of thing. And at the time, whoever was the
head of the RNC. At the time I said, I tell you
what and I was really bye-bye. 95 96.
I was really frustrated with the Republican Party.
I said you put him on the phone and I will, I'll give you 1,000
bucks. He gives me 5 minutes. 5
minutes, I'll give you 1,000 bucks.
Well, they actually tried the fundraiser.
I think they probably get commissions for, you know, the
the guys that get on the phone and call for what they raised.
And so he tried and but they never got on the phone.
And so, I never contributed to the GOP again and then something
happened in 1998. I went to a financial conference
in Aruba They'll island of Aruba off the coast of Venezuela.
And guess who was the keynote speaker?
A guy by the name of Ron Paul and everything changed.
At that point, you just got bills, thumbs up over there.
I saw that you parked up. That's his guy, he's got a
picture. I think with both of the Paul's,
oh, yeah, one of his proud moments, he's got some with his
brother there too. So, you're in a rubra.
You got to meet Ron, Paul. And did you have conversation
with them, or you listen to him? So, I did, I didn't get to have
Don't get to meet him, just a saw saw his address and I
everything that he said, resonated with me.
And obviously, you know, he was a elected Congressional member
of the Republican party but I knew he wasn't one of them and
he helped clarify in my own mind.
Why I wasn't one of them either, but I subsequently Ike, I came
home and went to a Libertarian party meeting the first.
Time I'd ever been to one and it was, we were pulling up on thing
on the, the 2000 year election cycle.
So I went to a meeting where all of the North Carolina State
candidates were, they're giving their little two cents in at
this, at this particular meeting.
And at the end of that particular session, I went up to
the state libertarian party chair and sat down next to her
and waited my turn to give a, you know, are just to meet and
have a little conversation and I asked her, I said, what do you
think of Ron? Paul, she was, oh my gosh, he's
my Ro and I said, well why don't you guys do the same thing that
he's doing and take your message into the game because you're
obviously not in the game. I was crawling with the time the
1% Club because that was about the degree of effectiveness of
that ever had in any one particular election and it's
coming off. Like that's coming off.
What Robert Ross Perot coming in and basically got one at the
best they've ever done in a presidential I think.
Yeah, yeah. And of course roster.
Errol got 19% in 92 and then nine percent again with dull
Clinton in 96, so he did actually better than that.
Yeah, yeah. Ross Perot.
Well, I mean, Clinton won the 92 election with less than forty
three percent of the vote and that was because of what Ross
did to the Elder Bush. But the point being is that I
asked the state party chair will, why aren't y'all following
the model there? I mean he's in the game, he's
playing, you're not and she said, oh no, we're We really
have to focus on building the party and so I never joined the
party that makes sense. Not located than that.
Yeah, that makes total sense and and it's also kind of a
frustration too, because there's a seems like a missed
opportunity in that for. I don't know what ideological
Purity, something to that effect, it is, and that's what
has been my ongoing frustration. I always call them, you know, my
there, they're my close cousins and I do attend libertarian
party events on occasion. I've been invited to speak at
Libertarian chapters around the country and have done that.
They know that I'm a friend, but they also know that I have a,
you know, I have, I have a problem with the I have a
problem with the methodology is what it is.
I've always thought that they would have been better organized
as a disruptive Association rather than a party.
And when I say that something like the what we called the tea
party was never a party. But it was a disruptive
Association that had a viable and, and measurable impact.
When, you know, it was a 2010 ish when that that whole thing
erupted and I've always tried to convey that that's should be
there. MO is to go at go at politics.
That way be disruptive go in and threaten the local GOP or
Democratic candidate, whichever one it is, and let them know.
You're either going to yield on these two, three, four issues.
Whatever. And and if that's the case,
because in these particular these tight races, now that
we're seeing that are being one, either side by half a percent of
the vote, the libertarian party could come in and negotiate and
become an influence over the agenda.
And by the way, you're either going to stick with us on these
three or four issues throughout your legislative four years, two
years, whatever is going to be we're going to bury you next
time and we're going to go the other way.
Mmm, and I've always thought that that would be the better
way to get them in the game. Course otherwise take the cream
of their crop, the best voices that they have.
And they do have some generally good voices, but most successful
that we have seen, we saw Gary Johnson, he was a governor New
Mexico. Vetoed more bills than any
Governor's ever vetoed. I think in the history of the
United States, I think he during his eight years what he he be
toted seven or eight hundred bills.
That's phenomenal if he did nothing else other than just
kill legislation because if you ever known Of any legislation
that promoted our extended Freedom or protected, Freedom,
or gave us anything back. That is the libertarian
position. It's like just stay out of my
business. I don't need it.
In fact, I'd love it. If Congress spent all their
time, just cutting laws, there's enough of them.
They could probably cut something every month or so, and
we'd be in great shape. They could just, you know,
reduce some of the Log Jam there, but Gary Johnson,
basically, swept himself into the Dustbin of history when he
left the GOP. He could have kept the same
philosophy. He could have stayed in there
and he could have been an effective Force.
Justin Amash did the same thing by leaving and and I could
comment on what I think. We're his mistakes all day long,
although I love the guy, Thomas, Massie again, is showing us the
way it should be done as one of those guys on the hill.
Obviously, Rand Paul is my current Capitol Hill
philosophical twin. Brother, I heard him Yeah.
Oh yeah, he absolutely is has been since he's been there fair
enough. So with that being the
background that you're looking at, they've moved politics into
the driver's seat for you in March of 2020 and we're not
going to get two weeks to slow the spread.
As you found out, we were going to have however long it was
going to be 15 months. It sounds like took you out of
your day job. And so you started, you know,
getting more involved in this thing.
What made you first of all, what were your initial thoughts about
attending? January 6?
Because, obviously, We're going to go as far as how you got
involved with dealing with federal law enforcement, what
made you decide to go? And did you have any sort of
concerns or hesitancy before showing up?
No, I had no concerns whatsoever.
I'm not a riot Chaser. I don't, I don't do that thing.
And of course, even here in Raleigh, North Carolina, we had
the significant problems with the BLM post George, Floyd death
riots here as well. I mean, they destroyed our
downtown destroyed, the infrastructure and the economy
downtown, just those riots alone and I Of course, followed them
and I was I lived as the crow flies as a mile and a half from
the state capitol. And I just sat on my front
porch, with my laptop and I had all of the local channels live
streams pulled up on my, you know, my tabs on my browser with
my rifle sitting beside me in case, they came my way.
And that's, that's, that's what I did.
And I watched the helicopter shots and the street shots and
all that was going on in those riots.
During that time, they never came my Direction but The
concern about January 6, wasn't there at all and the reality is
if we go back to the political for a moment is that I have
never been a trump supporter, I very antagonistically campaigned
against him and wrote against him.
I was I was in 2016. A hashtag never Trumper in 2016.
I was also a hashtag never, whenever Hillary, which drove me
for the first time in my life, I actually in a in a National
election voted for the libertarian candidate, which is
Gary Johnson, of course. And then when 2020 rolled
around, I had because now we had a track record from Trump and of
course, I know they don't like to hear this wasted vote
argument. I know the Liberty, my friends
in the libertarian party, don't like that.
But the reality is, it is true and I had measured and I had
scored Trump for his four years in office.
Now, As about a 50-50 on my own personal liberty, liberty,
liberty, scorecard, and I had Biden it about a negative 15.
So I had no choice but to pull the lever for Trump, and when I,
when I actually wrote My article finally admitting confessing how
we want to say it to endorsing Trump, my, the image that I used
for my article was the old Hollywood Squares.
You remember that? It was the tic-tac-toe with the
Though. And I said, you know, I'll take
the the Trump Square to block. That's not a ringing endorsement
but nevertheless that's exactly what it was.
It was a vote to block the B Administration from coming to
being which that was not successful.
So my intention for going to January 6th was as a reporter I
brought my camera my tripod my I had that little man on the
street microphone you know that you wave around in front of
people's faces. After the, the speeches at the
ellipse, I was going to post up somewhere on the cap on knew
that there were other things, scheduled at the Capitol.
There were marches, there were other rallies.
There was another stage that was at the Capitol grounds.
It was so a permanent events. There is that, is that right?
Like, that's what I'm understanding. 20.
Absolutely. There were, there were there
were eight different permitted events?
No, this is the important thing permitted by the United States
Capitol Police, I saw the actual permits and the signatures from
USC P leadership while I was sitting in The Oath Keepers
trial because I was there every single day for all nine weeks of
the first o Keepers trial. So I saw that evidence brought
brought forward, so, yes, there were permitted events or been
announced that it had been announcements in flyers, and
internet postings about additional events at the
capital. And, of course, the president
did make reference He said, we're moving over to the Capitol
to peacefully, you know, make our voices heard.
So what he said and myself, I was there with another writer
from Raleigh writer of some esteem but he would rather I not
mention that he was there. And although the FBI does know
already because they in my interview, they asked me if he
was there. So, well, I couldn't lie, right?
So you can decline to talk that much.
We may talk about in a second. I think that we will that's one
of those strong moves. A lot of people feel very
uncomfortable doing. I'll tell you why I did later on
when you bring that up. So, but what ended up happening
is we left the speeches where we left less than halfway through.
Trump speech to go ahead and get in front of the crowd and going
and get down to the Capitol. Number one, it was insanely cold
with, you know, 25 30 mile, an hour, winds whipping through
there and just having a nice brick, brisk walk to the
capital. At that point was going to feel
good. So we started moving towards the
Capital first thing that I noticed all day and with all the
videos that I took that day, there's never a single law
enforcement officer, ever once comes into frame, now we're in
the nation's capital, there is not a Park police, there's not a
metro police officer, there's not a United States Capitol.
Police officer that ever enters my camera frames until I'm
actually on the West Terrace of the capital.
The entire time that we were at the Washington Monument Lon not
a single cop the entire walk. The mile walk over to the
Capitol not a single cop. It was not until we basically
reached the reflection pool, you know, near the peace Monument
there, on the west side of the Capitol that we could hear the
sirens arriving and then I look up and I can see the yellow, the
fluorescent vest of the NPD officers coming down the stairs
and then we saw smoke and then we heard the first flash bangs
and I looked over at At the other gentleman, I was with and
I said that's where we're headed.
And so we broke out in the trodden.
Went straight to the West Terrace and that's marked
anyway, just out of curiosity or you just carrying your equipment
now, just carrying I had a backpack without everything in
it and that was it, okay? You weren't pulling the antifa
thing where you wear like a helmet that says you're going to
Riot but also it says press you don't get a relative I wore no
riot gear whatsoever whatsoever. But the most interesting part of
my first Realization that something was wrong here.
Were the credentialed Press photographers on the front line
of the West Terrace battle line in full riot gear.
They look like War correspondence, you know, they
had their best on, they had their helmets on, they had gas
masks and they were there on the front line before the president
ever finished his speech. So how did they know?
That's my first question of the day.
So the first thing that crossed my mind that day.
How did these guys know to be there in full?
Riot gear to capture? What was happening?
When a mile and a half away? The president of the United
States is it's like wait a minute, he's over here.
What are you doing here? And the distance there?
Makes it about uh probably twenty five minute walk.
Probably for most people if not longer for who are not stepping
it out for a couple of healthy guys.
Like, we are myself and the other Almond.
We we were we were putting it, man.
We were enjoying the bra, the walk.
We both of us are in shape and we, we made it very quickly, but
for the average rather rotund overweight 40 percent body fat,
you know, average American. It's a, it's an hour walk.
Now, that was your first question, have you come to some
answers over the past two years or maybe?
Even during the time you were standing there.
Did you come to some answers about how they figure that thing
out back to the bar? Otherwise, if we're talking
about the photographers themselves, there are some
logical reasons why they might be their.
First of all, some of these guys.
They they carry their own equipment bags and that gear is
just part of their, their backs. All right?
So it's not unusual for them to have that with them.
Some of the guys that were there were in fact, actual War
correspondence that they this is they've got the resumes of
having been over these and been in Afghanistan and and other
hotspots around the world. Some of these guys though seemed
and I do everything that I can from my own investigative mind
and we can talk about where that comes from two as well because
this, this didn't just happen in the last three years, I have
some history there as well, but the point being is that I I saw
people including those photographers that were
completely out of place and they weren't there accidentally and
you and, you know, you just, you have that gut instinct.
You know what I mean, is that you have to go by.
My dad was a, was a private investigator and he had the
profilers gift, if you know what that is.
He used to find his specialty was missing persons, and he was
often hired by back down in Louisiana and Texas by these
rich. Oil billionaires that were
having, you know, domestic crises and their children's
home, and they would have the husband or whatever would
disappear in a with the child and they would run off to
another state somewhere. So, you had those types of
domestic, kidnapping, type situations, and my dad would end
up picking up the cases of for finding individuals that either
the FBI was not really looking for or they didn't find and he
would find them. Almost immediately.
He just had that Profilers gift. And so he picked up a lot of
cases like that. And so, the point being is that
is that with that instinct kind of genetically encoded in me, I
saw things that didn't make sense at the time and began to
ask a lot of questions. And my first article that I
wrote it was a, you know, it was a 9,500 word screed.
It was it came out one week after the event and it was
simply entitled what I saw on January 6th and I just told the
knee Narrative of this beginning of my day till the end of my
day. And what I saw with a that
asking questions, as well. Now, by the time, I wrote that
first article, I had also had time to do frame by frame by
frame analysis of all my videos. And that was really what began
the question asking process because your brain in a highly
kinetic situation like that can only take in so much unless
you're just trained. Maybe these, maybe these trained
Riot, Chasers and War correspondents.
Maybe they can you're saying no, but I don't think so.
Will you any big? So there's there's a once the
sympathetic nervous system kicks in because you're in the
scenario where you're going to have to deal with some survival
possibilities and that's what happens when people start
spraying CS gas around and think that or rubber bullets or
flashbangs, everybody's mind Narrows to Mission tasks.
You know. Sure your main content is not
going to be investigative what's going on.
It's going to be like how do I not get hit in the head with one
of those things? It knowing you're exactly.
Right. Because what I started doing was
I started aiming my camera in one place and then I would Watch
the cop that had either the big tank of spray or the the rubber
bullet guns or the flashbang grenade launchers, o site.
So, I'm keeping my eye on them and yet, even though I was
keeping my eye on them and nobody ever targeted me because
I was never a threat. I was never doing any violence.
I was always handling myself as professionally as I could,
possibly present myself in that as a, as a photographer at the
time is that I was never targeted, but That wind in the
splash I got, I actually got hit with some of that spray, it's
not anything I ever want to experience again.
So that I became as you said I became very, very after that.
First time I got hit became very focused on where it was coming
from and so I just letting the camera do its thing and I'm the
survival Instinct kicked in. I got hit by a flashbang one
time it landed. A was I was back in the crowd at
this point and as you have probably seen the videos some of
the Metropolitan Police Police officers were actually launching
those grenades over the battle line and into the more peaceful.
As we call them the peaceful protesters that were just
watching what was going on. It's time.
Sure. And and One landed about three
or four feet off to my right exploded trap will hit me in the
side of my leg and I carried a bruise there for several months
as a result of that. So probably would have been
worse if I had not done exactly what you just described there is
took on a different stance mentally but But the point again
being is that when I got home and started processing the
video, then I started seeing the stuff that caused me to write
the second article, which was came out about six weeks later
and that was entitled who was up to chain on January 6 because
now I'm looking at who was behind this thing.
Sure, the riot police that were out there on that day.
You mentioned I'm firing grenades over the top of the
crowd into the rear of it. Where people People were hanging
out and they were obviously just Milling about, they were not
involved in trying to tear down fencing or anything along those
lines. Did you see did it seem to you
that they knew what they were doing that?
They were going to get a positive result of dispersing
the crowd or was it doing something else?
No, the first of all, let's start with the tear gas.
It was totally ineffective within the winds that it was, it
would disperse immediately why they continued to even try.
That made no sense to me whatsoever.
The The pepper spray. After I took the first hit that
I got, I knew I never wanted to ever have that happen again, but
I saw individuals walking right up to them standing there.
Staring in them in the face, and taunting them for a direct hit,
and they would take. I got it on film.
I've got it on my own video camera, guys.
Taking direct hits and just taunting them afterwards.
Right. Well, there are small percent.
There's a small percentage of people that actually have a
resistance to cap. Jason.
Wow. Burning agents.
It's the same thing. I used to have a guy had a
instructor that would take CS grenades and he put them in the
pockets of his eye was uniform. And he would walk into the woods
when we were training and he would let him off in his pockets
and then just stand there and watch everybody run at all
directions, because he had a resistance to see us.
Now, if you put CSS in front of me, the tear gas in a non, you
know, windy environment. I will literally have mucus
coming out of all my, you know, my eyes, my nose, my face smile,
be drooling and Ratchet and all the things that people do.
So the people that reported being kind of like choked by the
gases they were down toward the tunnel, and I've been in a lot
of Twitter spaces with these folks that are, you know, J 6
types and, and they were like, you know, they were killing us
and said, oh no that's just, it's a choking agent, it's not
it's not tear gas, tear. Gas is a misnomer, it's a
choking agent, it's CS gas, and, and it's really awful and
luckily, for you, I guess it sounds like the winds were
there. Because if they started
lingering over the crowd, it would have been very nasty.
But it sounds like, but something weird happened.
There is, I felt like Because of the limited amount of the effect
that I was experiencing because of the winds that I was, in fact
developing some sort of I was just getting used to it maybe to
a little to a certain extent because when I actually, then
went into the Capitol building and there was a huge release at
the house chamber doors. At one point, this is that that
famous scene, where the guys are inside.
And they've got the, they've got the furniture turned over and,
you know, The the plainclothes cops, got their guns, aimed at
that door and you can see one guy's face through the broken
window and that sort of thing. And well, I was on the other
side of that door. But about 100 people back and I
was up against the wall and I was videoing this same.
And so I had, I had always while I was in there, I was always
trying to get up and back in a way.
So I could video. What was happening?
I wanted to get the the people that were engaged in whatever
they were. Oh, doing whether they were The
Accidental Tourist or whether they were doing property damage
or whatever they were doing, I wanted to capture that in my
camera. So I was so at one point I was
moving to try and get a better position and above the crowd,
which was jam-packed trying to and people were up front,
pounding on that door and they're chanting know whose
house our house USA. They're singing all these.
All this craziness, that was going on.
So I turned off my camera for a moment and I was positioning
into another area to get And above and then all of a sudden I
hear the screams of teargas tear gas and that and thankfully I
was off to the side because it became a stampede, the other
way. And by the time they cleared
there's this green thick gas hanging, right?
And now I'm 20 to 25 feet from the main entrance into the US
House of Representatives chamber.
You can't even see the door because that's how thick the gas
was. At this point and people are
still running out of it. And there's an actual photo that
came out the next day in market. Watch and you can see me walking
as people are walking away from it.
You see me walking dead into that green Cloud.
You can see my backpacking to see my tripod coming out of my,
the back of my backpack and I'm walking dead into that green
cloud and it for some reason. It just didn't seem to bother
me. It's very interesting.
Yeah, it's awful stuff. So good on you I guess.
Yeah I don't know. I mean you can even find tear
gas and even pepper spray afterwards to on things like
metal. It'll stick around and my
buddies. You can always tell where
there's been a riot, when you go in, we've done some, you know,
some post surveillance in areas like that and you go, what's
wrong with that railing and my buddy would go, it's spicy, you
know, I go like I don't want to touch that at all.
So you walked into that, you watch people clear out.
Was this the was that the actual space?
Where Ashley Babbitt was eventually shot?
No, it was. It was, it was it exactly that
moment. Monteux by the, by the metadata,
on my camera. Which I learned later is that
she basically, when that tear gas was released, it was on the
other side of the Chamber, from where she was the speaker's
entrance, into the chamber was on the other side.
And and by my, as I said, by my camera's data, it was a
basically right at the moment within 30 seconds or so when she
was shot. Interesting.
And I wonder why that why they were trying to retake that but
but it was effective at least it.
And people out there. We did.
Ya was there, it was there, a sense from being in that crowd,
sometimes, when you're in a crowd you can tell people are
just moving because they're moving.
There's an excitement, there's an energy.
There's a direction, was there? A was there?
A plan to This Crew? Or were these people just
banging on doors and making noise.
There was no identifiable plan. While I was there watching it
and filming it myself. The plan began to develop after
I started doing the frame-by-frame analysis of My
video, you began to capture those who were obvious,
professional provocateurs that were in the crowd and they were
there. I mean there's there's just I
will never be convinced otherwise they were there.
I don't know who they're working for, I still don't know.
I don't have the, I don't have the Smoking Gun or the, you
know, the, the absolute proof and I don't care.
I don't care. If I don't care, if Trump
himself hired them, I don't care.
If it came from orders, from Pelosi, if it came from Merrick
Garland, if it came from some dark money, Dark group in the
FB, I don't care. It doesn't matter to me or the
Russians or the Chinese, it doesn't matter.
Right now you are just observing what it was.
And and and I'm interested in hearing more about that because
you seem like a very sane and sober voice in this you don't
have a lot of emotion, one way or another, which is the way
that I want people to talk about these things because that's the
only way you're going to find out what the truth is.
And then you get a lot of these people.
They have a vested interest in it being somebody in particular
and it doesn't sound like you. You just said you don't care.
And it doesn't tell you have an interest in either.
Doesn't really make a difference to your Your to your outcomes of
your life, whether it was any of those groups or none of those
groups. And somebody else completely is
that accurate, as far as identifying, who was behind it
that does not matter to me. I am passionately engaged in the
process of discovering who it was though.
That's fair because it was something you witnessed in,
obviously, we're hearing a counter narrative, which is to
say this was a bunch of proud, boys.
A bunch of Oath, Keepers, whatever it was that were out
there causing this. All right, so, let's And I
didn't know you were, we're going to talk about any this
stuff that's why I like doing this.
I kind of like to know who I'm talking to, but not all their
story and I think I do myself a disservice.
If I find out too much about what your story, lay me out,
some of the groundwork of why you believe there were
professional provocateurs and the coordination that you saw
that indicated in your mind, being a student of server.
And and somebody who's not involved in, you know, there's
no outcome that you're looking for.
In that day, you're just capturing film and look into to
be just an independent journalist showing.
What did happen? Not you know what you wanted to
happen? It sounds like well I made a
video the night of January 6th from my hotel room with this
other journalists that I was there with and it was we poured
a couple drinks a couple steps stiff drinks.
He had he had he did not go into the Capitol.
In fact, he got hit seven or eight times from the downwind.
You know, splash of that pepper spray and he just got the heck
out of there. So he pulled back and got away.
He wasn't filming or anything. He was just watching.
So he got he got Got Away. Got up when got it a distance
and just watched was taking place.
Did not go into the capital. He eventually went to back to
his hotel earlier in the I was I never left until after the
curfew. I was, I stayed in the area till
well after dark, we had this anticipation that Aunt Agatha
was going to show up after dark. And so I wanted to be there to
capture that if that happened the didn't.
So I got back to the hotel, probably 8, or 8:30.
In Arlington. And we poured a drink turned on
the camera, we sat down in front of it, made a quick about a
30-minute kind of a. Post-mortem on what we saw, what
we experienced. I was pretty rattled by then and
we uploaded it that night. And I made some false
observations are what I because what I thought again, I had not
seen my own video yet at this time.
So as we were describing the crowd, I clearly described it as
a pro Trump magazine. Agra crowd that was doing the
damage, doing the violence, and was causing the Mayhem and
problems. And that's what I said.
He challenged me a little bit and said, you don't think that
there was any other group that was a said, hey there, I don't
think that. I don't think it's possible that
there weren't some infiltrators from maybe left-wing groups or
that sort of thing. But it didn't even it didn't
even enter my mind at the time that there might be some other
elements may be government. Ants are embedded agents of of
any kind had, not just hadn't gone there.
Yet that came in, after I started looking at my my video,
it also came in because as you know where I live, I'm right
next to Fort Bragg and I have a lot of friends down here that
are in the Special Forces community.
And as I began to show some of them, my videos, they were like
going, what's that? And then they would describe for
me the behaviors. And that sort of thing that
really kicked in the, the investigative juices and I
started asking questions and start going further and further
and further my February 24th article of 2021 switch happened.
I was published, was it six or seven weeks after the event
itself? I actually had by then
identified. The fact that There were
elements from the US, Marshals embedded in the crowd as
plainclothes undercover elements, as well as a special
ops group out of Fort Belvoir, which just happens to be the
most elite and secretive signal intelligence group in all of the
US Army and that's where they're based.
And I learned that they were there.
Also embedded in the crowd that day and where did you learn?
That? That's one of those sources that
you can't. About.
Okay. This is one of your sources
that's fair. Yeah.
All right. So and did you identify them in
your video when you were looking at them as well?
You're like, okay, this is obviously, you know, I never
identified them in my video, although information.
You were guy although, in subsequent videos, I have
identified individuals that just by, as you know, by their gate,
by their training, the way there.
Their heads are on a swivel. The way their eyes are moving
around the way, they carry themselves, their interactions,
the signals, the hand signals that sort of thing.
You knew that they Were they were elements of some
Professional Organization. Certainly when I say
professional, they everything about them.
You know, that was just screamed grow.
Okay? Fair enough, any possibility
that these people were just veterans, who had a lot of
experience. We got a lot of people with
oef/oif type backgrounds. Could they have been people that
are just were bodies that were also had done some things.
Other places you think or you think that their motivation was
specific in? Well, I actually I actually gay
Gave them a lot of Grace, in my first articles about this,
because I also I but I genuinely believe that they were sent to
be there in case, things got out of hand so that they could bring
an end to it or to take care of business as it were.
Because the level of professionalism of the Ops that
I know that were there, the spec ops that, I know where there
were the kind of individuals that if, if if the Maga guys
pulled Old Firearms, it would have been over with and S what
I'm saying. And and so I reported that I
wrote that in published that on February 24th or 20 21 and it
was January 5th of 2022 that Newsweek came out with their
article with a big headline that said, very specifically, special
operative our special ops from the US Army with shoot to kill
orders were in the crowd. So they Firmed it 10 months
later and I think that was something they were talking
about how HRT had actually been somewhere in there.
The FBI's hostage rescue Tianjin here under plain clothes or not,
I actually don't know enough about what they did on that day.
I know that there was a lot of standby groups that they had.
They had standby group stationed all over.
But there also were elements already in the capital when the,
when the crowds arrived and I actually captured the ATF
tactical units, coming up the stairs.
In the area where actually Babbitt was shot.
I've got that on video now. They either were called in.
I don't know how close that they were waiting or that they were
positioned before deployment directly into the capital
building, but I actually captured on my own camera, their
arrival on the scene and this was in clearly marked.
ATF police is what they're. They're, you know, they're on
their breastplates and and then immediately after that, I was
the Last person probably to see Ashley Babbitt, a lot less
civilian. Anyway, and that's a whole
nother story, but I was in the lower level of the capital.
There were no protesters there at the South interest
whatsoever. And as I've told this story,
many times, I was just looking for a restroom, I could Bend I
had been at the Capitol since 9 a.m. and it's approaching 3:00
at this point and I needed a facility a men's room.
And I asked the US Capitol Police Officer.
I said, answering it. Is there a restroom anywhere?
Public restroom in. She actually responded.
She goes. No, I don't usually work in this
building. She said, but you're welcome to
go downstairs and I'm okay. So I went downstairs and was
wandering around by myself. There's nobody there at all and
I'm just looking, I'm wandering. The Halls looking for a
restroom. Can't find it.
And all of a sudden this, this young very petite female,
Capital police officer grabs me by my right arm and she said, As
Sir, can I safely lead you out of the building?
I look down. I mean literally had to look
down at her she's so short and I said do I need to be safely?
Let out of the building. She said yes sir you do.
I said okay I didn't resist at all.
And so we started the long walk down this Hall towards the South
and entrance exit door on the lower level.
And she asked me Kyle, this was the most bizarre thing in the
world. She asked me three times sir.
Do you feel safe right now? And I said, yeah, I'm fine, I
hurt her, hands were trembling, by the way, the whole time,
she's trembling on my arm, and then we got a little closer to
the door. And she said, sir, do you feel
safe right now? I said, yeah, I'm good.
So we're about now 15 or 20 feet from the door itself.
And she says, again sir, do you feel safe right now?
And I stopped in my tracks and I said I'm fine.
Do you feel safe right now? She said, no, I don't.
And then I heard the commotion to my left and I looked down and
FBI tactical unit and their Medics are working on.
Who I learned later was Ashley Babbitt because they had moved
carried her downstairs away from where the crowds were and they
had her position at that doorway.
And so, I am looking down at her but I don't know.
It's a her all I see is jeans shoes, the the the chest was
covered in blood and then the hands of the guys working on her
obscured that it was a female and I looked back over the
capitol police officer. And I said, is he shot?
She says, yes he is. I said who shot him.
She said we did. I said why'd you shooting?
She said he pulled a gun on us. Well fog of war, the Curt Fusion
on their radio. In fact I heard I actually on my
camera I can hear the radio chatter calling for triage and
all these other things are it was crazy.
You know, when this happened and she didn't know she had no idea
what had happened. She thought it was a guy too.
Or for that matter. And right then is we're having
this conversation, the EMT unit arrived.
They bust through the door with the journey.
We had to stand back and let them in.
And then as soon as they got in, then she takes me to the door.
And she said, please be safe. And I said, you know, you too
well you know what goes up must come down, what comes in must
come out. So obviously what I saw and I
saw the gurney come in, I walked down or the ramp and then came
back around and post it up right there, at that door, 30 seconds
later the door. Kick open, 30 seconds, after
that, the gurney comes out, full tactical units.
She's got, you know, rifles and they're and they're working on
her feverishly and then I, I'm so close.
I just start following the gurney down the ramp, and then
after we got past, I think the second or third support column,
I saw her bare chest and I went and you can hear me on my own
camera. Go, holy shit, it's a woman.
and, Because you don't, you don't, you don't expect that in
battle, right? But surprising, especially with
you, make sure you just been given, right?
Yeah. So, I followed with the rest of
the way till they disappeared off into the vehicles that were
parked there. I didn't even know at the time
that I was actually in the only surviving police barricade that
had not been breached that the South entrance, they still had
the bike rack up, and I was the only civilian standing inside
that barricade. There are Capitol Police and
metropolitan police officers. Walking past me, not saying a
word to Me because it was obvious that I was acting like a
professional in my own behavior and I was no threat at all.
So they allowed me to capture this and as soon as I did, I
walked out, I remove the barricade and exited and that
was the end of my time in the capital itself, just for
people's kind of mental pictures, kind of a theater of
the Mind piece of it. What are you dressed?
Like, and what is your camera rig look?
Like, it sounds like you're not just filming on an iPhone which
is maybe there were. No, I was Was I actually said, I
had the, you know, I had the iPhone and I had the, you know,
the little Gizmo thing that you would they what are those things
called him on it? What's that?
They like a gamble? Or one of the.
Yeah. So, you know, I had that and and
I had, you know, spare battery pack and everything.
And so my, even my backpack, or my tripod that I had, my
backpack was set up for the camera for the cell phone.
I didn't didn't want to carry a Lot of extra I didn't just I
just didn't expect this. I mean, obviously if I had known
what was going to happen, I had to come prepared for it.
I did this was the way that they developed was beyond my
comprehension and expectations. I'm sure I think that's the case
for a lot of people. And what about clothing-wise
what were you wearing? If you was wearing a black
jacket, I had a kind of a light red semi almost pink.
Yorktown had on Yorktown Virginia and I had jeans boots
and that was it. Okay, but not obviously one side
or another pic, you're not, you're not wearing team colors
out there. You don't have a flag sticking
out and they let you when you were behind that police line and
you said people were kind of low and you go where their people on
the other side of the police line that we're still lined up
or as it Capulet, there were, there were protesters on the
other side of the police line. Okay.
So you're inside sort of the safe zone for the police, which
is why they're running around behind you and okay.
And there was no battle going on on that side either the the
battle at because this was, she came out of the building of the
South Side. She was carried out of the
building and by the way, on the camera on my camera you can hear
me. Say, you know, holy shit.
It's a female. She's not going to make it.
Yeah, I knew I saw her in her eyes.
I'd seen death before. I knew that she was gone at that
moment. And and that video has been used
in documentaries and HBO documentary New York Times new
Services all over the world and that was my first time to become
a photojournalist which I'm not but I became ones, they got a
credit you for it, right? And yeah.
And and so that's that's an interesting kind of move for me.
So that moves you into the journalists category your
they're legitimately captioning news.
In real time, it's being used by what they would assume are
legitimate mainstream news sources, right?
I gave it, I gave it to To CBS that night.
They had they were running that video that night.
Yeah, I was there pay involved in that at all, you know.
Okay. That's good.
So, you're now paid as a photojournalist in this realm
and at some point after CBS is using it in the others, the
federal authorities are going to want to see this as well.
I imagined was that what brought them to contact you or was there
something else that led them to your door?
No, it's a bit of a journey getting there.
Okay, as well because I was not contacted.
By them until August. So, 2926 till August of before
ever heard from them. And I In full disclosure, I went
into hiding for five days after January 6, because I was not
going to come out until I had my story written when I get my
videos processed. When I know what I think I saw,
when I had my story published, I was going to come out.
I actually went and went into hiding at guy, two, different
Special Forces, operatives guys, here in this area, and they
said, oh yeah, come on, you'll be fine with us.
And so that was that Is my goal. I got guys like that, too.
They're good people to have in your corner, you know, turn the
phone off and just just stayed secluded until I've finished my
task. Then I came out and phones are
back on. Back on the internet, I am
traveling again because I was doing, I was trapped during the
lockdowns, I toured 28 different states meeting with all of my
the followers, my blog, that sort of thing.
So I was doing meetups all over the country.
And so I got back on the road against I just Zoomed my normal
activities, obviously very focused on what was happening in
the news at the time. As you can imagine, I saw the
arrest that we're taking place. I actually began the here of
independent journalists that were being contacted and
arrested or at least the very least interviewed by the FBI.
So I at I'm using my credit cards everywhere, I went for
hotels food, and otherwise other expenses, so I'm not hiding from
anybody. So I just said, anticipated it
someplace somewhere sometime whether I was in Texas,
Oklahoma, Oklahoma or Wisconsin that at some place they were
going to pop up one day and and say, hey we want to talk to you
or hey, you're coming with us. Whichever the case may be and it
didn't it didn't happen for a long time.
What's that? It's enough for a long time.
Yeah. So I ironically had a meeting,
one of my one of my meetups for my blog followers scheduled just
Outside of DC in a suburb Virginia suburb DC on a think,
it was a Friday evening and Thursday morning before that
meeting. I get a phone call 10:00 in the
morning. Hello.
The Steve Baker. Yes it is.
Hi, I'm special agent. Das with the FBI and my first
response was well what took you so long and he chuckled he said
well you know we've had a lot to do we had a lot of things said
okay I was here so he said hey look I see that you're going to
be and I think it was resting. I said I see you're going to be
in rest and tomorrow night and it just wondering if you were
going to be there earlier in the day and maybe you'd have a
couple hours where you could sit down and talk to a couple of our
guys, and you know, tell us about what you, you saw there.
In January 6, that sort of thing.
I said, I said, yeah, actually, I would probably have a couple
of hours. Only problem is is my attorney,
won't be able to be there anyway.
Oh, oh, okay, oh yeah, yeah, well, we can, we can schedule
that for another time when your attorney is available.
And I said, okay, well, let's, let's do that.
I said, why don't you go and give me your number and I'll
have him contact you. And, so, from that point
forward, I never spoke to them again, except through my
attorney. And when I hit right there.
Yeah, I'm not ladies and gentlemen.
That is how you do it. That's the right answer.
You can be polite and insist on an attorney.
There is no upside to doing this on your own.
And a lot of people don't do that, I've been talking to a lot
of people that have not done that and they all have the plan
in their head if that's the plan.
But that's a great plan, you executed.
And the way you said it was perfect.
So it's light and it's professional.
And it tells them exactly what they need to know that you're
represented. And they need to go through them
and that should tell them the way that they perceive from that
on out. So well, oiled up and build up.
And let me and let me also say, and I've advised this of other
people as well, even if you don't have an attorney yet that
still the answer and then you then your very next call is to
find her. Yeah.
That whether you have an attorney or not is irrelevant to
the answer is that you need to have that attorney stated that
you're going to have that person and then go find them.
You don't have to have that attorney that's your future
turning. That's your your potential
attorney that will be there but well done on that for you that
is the right answer and unfortunately a lot of people
got themselves into a ton of hot water because not do exactly
what you just did. Well I had I had every intention
Of being cooperative. I was not going to although I
had advice and Stern advice and warnings from multiple friends
and followers and blog followers that have you know 30 40 years
in law enforcement, every one of them saying do not do the
interview, do not, you don't have to, don't do it, don't do
it. I'm telling you there's no
there's no upside, don't do it. I have one problem though.
I'm is just as curious about what they were doing, is they
were about what I was doing. And as always, the same problem,
by the way, this is the same thing.
For guys who deal drugs, they have the same curiosity, what do
they know about me? Well, not hear us and he was
from a journalistic standpoint, and in fact, when the interview
ultimately finally happened, I told as the first thing I told
him, I said the oh, and I looked at my attorney I said this guy
right here told me not to do this.
Okay. I am here for one reason.
One reason only, I said I'm going to ask you as many
questions as you ask me, let's rock.
And now I was announcing now we have to now we have to get to,
we have to go through the Journey a little bit.
How we got there because obviously my attorney did
contact them. We set up a voluntary
Cooperative time, you know, mutually agreed, upon date.
That worked in our schedules for me to go down to the Raleigh
area field office here. The FBI.
And when we arrived, we got there about 15 minutes early.
It was agent daus, and agent noise that met us at the door
after we went through the security gates and all of that,
and immediately after we walk in the door, they said, hey guys,
thanks for coming. Look, we may have a problem.
We may not be able to do this interview today.
If guys, just go ahead and sit here in the lobby, we'll be back
in about, we'll be back in about 5 or 10 minutes and let you
know. No, but something has come up
and we may have to reschedule. So we sat down, they disappeared
behind the another, you know, security door in the back.
And I looked at my attorney and I go, man, what's going on?
Is I'm the only thing I think I could think of man.
There's been something happened today.
Well, I mean, we're is it another 9/11 going on?
Is there another tack going somewhere?
What's going on? And he goes, no, this is about
you. This is my attorney said, I went
what he goes. Oh yeah, he said this is, this
is about you. And I so he talking about, he
said, I said they may just come through that door and arrest you
right now and I went yeah. How did you get that from what
they were saying? And that were eminently friendly
and there was nothing in their demeanor, their body language
that gave away anything like that.
What ended up taking them about a half hour before they came
back through the locked doors. And when they came out her, hey
guys. We're so sorry, here's the deal.
We got a call from Washington. They knew that your interview
was coming up today but because of your status as a journalist
We have to get permission in order to do this questioning.
We can't question a member of the press without permission
from the US attorney's office. And I'm like, really, I didn't
know that, that law existed. Sure enough.
I looked it up as soon as I got home and there's a doj policy
that they have to do that. So I think, yeah, it's in the
u.s. code and and that's exactly the case the FBI or any other
Federal investigative unit cannot interview, a member of
the press with Express written permission from the US Attorney
General's office itself. So it took a little bit over a
month before that came down, we finally did the interview in
October, we it was rescheduled, we negotiate my attorney, a
don't negotiated a proper agreement from them that at no
time. Under any circumstances.
Could anything that I said in that interview be used against
me in court? Should they take me?
Should they decide to file charges against me?
Unless I perjured myself. Well I had nothing to hide and
nothing to perjure myself about. So I said, yeah, let's do it.
And the only thing that really changed from the negotiated
first abandoned interview was that they had given me
permission to record the interview myself in the first
one. The second one as stated in the
proper agreement was that I could not record it.
Yeah thanks again. The first thing that I did after
telling them that I was Or to ask them as many questions as
they were going to ask me. And I said, even though I'd
already signed the agreement, I want to record this meeting and
we got off to a bad start, right?
Then they were not happy with the fact that I wanted to record
it. And we got into a pretty heated
debate about it. And finally, my attorney said he
said, Steve have you changed your mind?
Do you are? If you are if you're not allowed
to record this, or are you wanting to abandon this session?
And I said, no, I said, I Oh, I just want it on the record, you
know, the cameras were embedded in the wall up, you know, Bob
there and and of course that they were making the point.
It's being recorded. I said, yeah, but it may be
being recorded but I have no assurance that you what you're
going to do with that recording. And I said I don't understand
and they gave the line about, you know we do investigative
where we do undercover work and we can't have our images, you
know, and we know you being a journalist, you plan on using
this. And I said, no.
I said I will sign an agreement with you.
I said, I said right? Out on your notepad right there.
I will, I will sign it right here that I will not use this
video recording and a story. It will not be published and it
will only be for my backup. And should I ever go to trial
over this thing? And he said, they said, no, we
won't do it either. It's either no recording or.
No, no interviewed. And, and I said, all right, I
said, well, let's go, let's do this thing.
All right, that's a good place. We're gonna take a quick, pause
here. And we're going to regroup for
one second. Then we're going to hear about
what was in this interview, because I'm now Now, very
interested in how an adversarial interview guys started off.
Thanks for listening to the Kyle serif and show be sure to follow
him on Twitter and Truth at Kyle seraphin.
Now, very interested in how an adversarial interview guys
started off. Thanks for listening to the Kyle
serif and show be sure to follow him on Twitter and Truth at Kyle
seraphin.