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Prepare to hear the truth from a
real whistleblower, an American 

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Patriot, here's civil liberties,
enthusiasts, Second Amendment, 

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Defender and indefinitely 
suspended. 

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FBI agent. 
Kyle seraphin. 

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Hello my friends and welcome 
back to the Kyle Serafin show. 

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Today, we are going to have a 
wonderful interview. 

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Well, I hope it's going to be a 
wonderful interview. 

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It might just be Steve, just 
being Furious. 

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We've got Steve Baker on Fresh 
off his appearance on the Tucker

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Carlson show. 
He is the pragmatic 

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constitutionalist formerly the 
pragmatic libertarian Podcast 

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host, he's an independent 
research in journalist, he's a 

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musician and a father but he 
he's also a target of the FBI. 

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It turns out. 
So as just sort of continuing 

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what we do here exposing more 
stories and malfeasance of the 

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FBI. 
Steve, thanks so much for 

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joining me today and I'm looking
forward to hearing your story. 

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Thank you. 
Kyle's, good to be here. 

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Thanks for having me. 
I think we're gonna get into a 

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bunch of wild things. 
Including, what happens when the

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FBI knocks on your door? 
Which I've usually been on the 

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other side of Producer. 
Phil has been on the other side 

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of, before we do that, I'm going
to do a quick word out to our 

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sponsors. 
Who is a sponsoring our program.

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This month were going to say. 
Thanks to Patriot coolers Pedro,

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coolers and Patriot coolers.com.
If you visit their page you get 

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10% off when you do the promo 
code Kyle. 

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That's build. 
K yl e. 

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Keep it real simple. 
If you need a Tumblr, if you 

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need a mug I'm not asking to go 
buy something, you don't need, 

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but if you do, check them out. 
They keep things hot. 

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They think keep things cold. 
You can check other great 

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products. 
They've got great colors, 

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patriotic, packaging and a 
seriously fair price. 

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So they are more affordable than
some of the bigger names but 

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they're probably made in the 
same Factory. 

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In fact, they told me sometimes 
they get the wrong product sent 

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over. 
So go figure out how that goes. 

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I've got my hot color Tumblr 
right here right now you have to

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pay for a name brand. 
That's not going to add anything

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to your life. 
Get something that supports 

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disabled, vets, and the Kyle 
Surf and show. 

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I've been using them since 2017.
We started using these on 

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surveillance and my wife's been 
using it for quite a while, he 

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in the minivan. 
Check out there rotor motor 

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coolers they're soft sided 
coolers. 

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They can keep ice cold for days,
just like a Yeti. 

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Just like an Arctic Except it 
says, Patriot on the side just 

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like you support your country 
support our vets sport the show,

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it's promo, code k yl e for 10% 
off. 

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If that was a do will do it 
without any form or we're gonna 

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go right into it. 
Steve. 

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You live in North Carolina but 
you came from Louisiana. 

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Is that correct? 
That's correct. 

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I have been I was born and bred 
in Louisiana. 

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I've got healthy heaping, dose 
of Cajun in my blood, but I have

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been in North Carolina for 30 
years, this year, it's not her 

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fault. 
Long enough that I can 

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understand everything you're 
saying, which exactly what your 

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the case for people from 
Louisiana, I actually lost my 

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accent. 
My first touring job is as a 

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full-time musician was with a 
band that traveled 

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internationally and they early 
on asked me, if I would be the 

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actual MC for the band. 
I was only 19 years old and so I

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would walk. 
I was a trumpet player and I was

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always on the back line, but I 
would walk forward and I would 

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do the introductions and that 
sort of thing of the band when 

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it came that time of night, But 
they said, but you got to lose 

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that accent because we toured 
internationally and the 

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interpreters overseas couldn't 
understand the old the dialect. 

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And so I mid westernized, my 
Approach a little bit in my 

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dialect. 
Yeah. 

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That's that's a thing that 
people did for a long time, my 

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dad's from Rhinelander, 
Wisconsin. 

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And as you probably know people 
from Wisconsin have a certain 

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thing about their voices, you 
never know that. 

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But my out, my dad also spent 30
years in broadcast and you know,

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did radio for a long time. 
And one of those things you 

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gotta learn how to get rid of if
you want to be. 

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That's exactly right and you got
that good Gravely based you sing

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too, or no, I do. 
I'm a lead vocalist right now. 

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In two different bands, apart 
from being a trumpet player and 

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then just before covid came to 
town. 

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I had actually launched a David 
Bowie tribute act. 

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I was actually pretending every 
night to be David Bowie on 

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stage, so that was, that was the
thing that's a thing in and of 

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itself. 
That's like a whole show though,

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he could do about the David 
Bowie tribute of your You've got

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a couple kids. 
Yeah, my kids are my kids are 

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grown. 
My son is a insanely gifted 

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musician. 
He's got ten times a talent. 

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I ever wished I could have he's 
he he takes out his musical 

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frustrations on guitars mainly. 
And then my daughter, she has 

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one of those jobs that if I told
you what she did, she'd have to 

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shoot me if that and that's 
about all I can say about it. 

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That's all you need to say. 
Then we know about those kind of

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things. 
Things as I used to tell people 

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when I work for the bureau in 
Washington, d.c., that's what I 

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did. 
And I said, I'm a secret agent 

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for the FBI and they go. 
I think you mean special agent 

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actually said no, everything 
says secret that I work on, I'm 

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pretty sure I'm a secret agent 
and and they didn't understand 

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it and people in the bureau 
didn't get it and that's why we 

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didn't get along as much as I 
wanted to because there's a 

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there's not a lot of sense of 
humor that's going on and you 

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experience some of that it 
sounds like as well. 

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How long have you been doing the
kind of independent journalists 

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thing? 
And, and And running down 

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stories that you thought were 
important. 

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Well, I have been in the music 
business, my entire adult life. 

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In fact, as I said up, my first 
full-time gig on the road was 19

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years old traveling, all over 
the world with that band. 

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And then I have performed not 
only with a variety of different

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types of musical acts but I've 
also been involved in the music 

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industry as both a promoter, 
sometimes a artist management. 

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I've actually managed a couple 
of major label acts in. 

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My career and then about 20, 
something years ago, I started 

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jonesing to actually get back 
into the performance side of 

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thing. 
After a lot of years in the 

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business side and and I actually
actually started taking private 

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lessons. 
Again at 39 years of age on 

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trumpet just to relearn how to 
how to get my chops back, and 

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that sort of thing. 
And so I have been performing as

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a full-time musician for the 
last 20. 21 years as my primary 

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source of Of income, but for 
about 30 years, I've been 

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writing. 
Now, I was writing before that 

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and a lot of the articles that I
would write at the time were 

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music business stories. 
And then, with the Advent of 

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CompuServe and AOL back in the 
early 90s, I started testing the

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waters at my political Acumen 
because that was I've always 

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been a political junkie. 
And so I started Doing that sort

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of thing in the chat rooms. 
And then, of course, AOL became 

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my space. 
And then, my space became 

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Facebook and Facebook became a 
Blog. 

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And, and there we go. 
And then on the in mid-march 

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here, three years ago, 2020, the
government, I like to say, 

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weaponized me against them 
because they took my job away 

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from me for over 15 months. 
I wasn't allowed to work, I 

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wasn't allowed to earn an 
income. 

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And so, I took my hobby, my 
Asha. 

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My sideline passion, which was 
political commentary, and 

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Analysis is what I was doing. 
I used to say that I used to 

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write about the stupid stuff. 
Other people did and now I'm 

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doing the stupid stuff. 
But the, the point being is that

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I suddenly had all of this time 
on my hands because of the 

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lockdowns. 
And I just decided for the first

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time to monetize what I was 
doing. 

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And it became I, I literally 
told my followers at this point,

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we had tens of thousands You 
know, internet social media 

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followers, and I told them, I'm 
moving that part of my brain to 

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the captain's chair now, and I'm
moving the, the music side of my

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brain, to the co-captains chair.
And so that's what I've been 

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doing since since covid showed 
up. 

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Yeah, I think a lot of people 
had just a wildlife transition 

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that in some of it, some of it, 
I guess, goes against what the 

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government wanted, but it's 
their own fault for what they 

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created. 
And in that situation, how long 

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ago did you launch the podcast 
that you do? 

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Well, you know, I don't have a 
regular podcast but I do you 

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know, I do special shows well 
interviews and things of that 

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nature and that happened 
obviously during the lockdowns 

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as well. 
So it wasn't I was probably two 

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or three months into the 
realization that we weren't 

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going to, not going to be 
allowed to go back to work, for 

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some time that I bought the 
podcast gear and, and started 

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doing that we have very similar 
gear. 

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As people can see, if you're 
watching our humble show, you'll

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see, we're using the same 
Mike's, we got the same 

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headphones, it's kind of the 
thing you grab, right? 

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Yeah, yeah. 
All right. 

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So they pushed you into a seat 
where you were going to be doing

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more journalistic activities, 
even though that wasn't your gig

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and and it became your gig in 
that way. 

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The music business is kind of a 
left-leaning corner 

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organization. 
How do you sit as a politically?

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You said you're a Libertarian 
little L to me just a moment 

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ago. 
You know, how did you evolve 

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politically? 
And because even at a 19 year 

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old kid running around with a 
bunch of bands. 

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I would have to imagine that's a
little bit more on the left than

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generally speaking. 
Yeah. 

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But even Back then I'm probably 
the Elder statement and 

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Statesman in this group right 
here. 

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Right now, I've been around a 
few more decades. 

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Maybe we'll say it that way. 
So I started playing 

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professionally back in the 70s. 
So I'm giving myself away there.

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And when that happened, we 
didn't care about politics in 

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that manner. 
I've been a political junkie 

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since I was eight years old. 
I remember on the playground, 

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third grade, Arguing with my 
classmates about whether it was 

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going to be Nixon, Humphrey or 
oh, gosh. 

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Now I can't believe I'm 
blanking. 

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The the Alabama Governor at the 
time who ran is the third party 

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guy. 
But, you know, I'm talking about

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the, the point being is that we 
were, we were doing that sort of

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thing. 
I was doing that sort of thing 

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at a very young age. 
So I was, I was always attracted

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to politics and I was always a 
voracious reader as a child and 

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And politics for some reason, 
just really fascinated me but 

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00:09:59,300 --> 00:10:01,600
particularly in history, the 
history of politics and 

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00:10:02,300 --> 00:10:06,500
politicians, the famous American
heroes and the founders that 

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00:10:06,500 --> 00:10:08,800
sort of thing. 
So I was drawn into that early 

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on and then when I started my 
musical career a lot of that 

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began out of church, you know? 
So it was a lot more on the 

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00:10:17,300 --> 00:10:19,500
Christian music, side of things 
at the time. 

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So there was a lot more 
particularly growing up in 

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Louisiana. 
A lot more conservatism. 

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00:10:25,300 --> 00:10:29,800
Influencing the the world that I
was moving in, but having said 

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00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:33,700
that growing up in Louisiana at 
that time you either registered 

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00:10:33,700 --> 00:10:36,100
as a Democrat or your vote 
didn't count. 

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00:10:36,100 --> 00:10:39,100
So didn't matter how 
conservative you were you. 

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00:10:39,100 --> 00:10:41,900
If you were going to have a 
vote, that counted, it only 

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00:10:41,900 --> 00:10:45,600
counted in the primary because 
Republican had no chance back. 

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Then in the, The Old Dixie South
as it was, it's gone. 

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00:10:50,500 --> 00:10:52,200
George Wallace was the name. 
We were looking for George 

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00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:53,300
Wallace. 
Thank you very much. 

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00:10:53,300 --> 00:10:57,200
I can't believe I blank that So 
that's that's how the even I 

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00:10:57,208 --> 00:11:00,500
even ran the, I even ran. 
The Lynyrd Skynyrd song through 

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00:11:00,500 --> 00:11:03,300
my head, trying to see if I 
catch up where it is. 

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00:11:03,300 --> 00:11:05,000
Yeah, you can't do that on the 
Fly doesn't play. 

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00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:08,400
Right. 
So, so moving and progressing 

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00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:14,800
from there, I began to find out 
that I had a lot of problems 

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00:11:14,800 --> 00:11:20,500
with just the establishment unit
party system is as it has 

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00:11:20,500 --> 00:11:26,200
basically become now and I 
remember having a conversation 

225
00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:33,800
in the mid-90s with a caller 
from in a fundraising RoboCop 

226
00:11:33,800 --> 00:11:37,200
wasn't robocall, but somebody 
called me from the GOP, doing a 

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00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:39,900
fundraising call and I'd been 
donating to candidates and that 

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00:11:39,900 --> 00:11:43,200
sort of thing. 
And at the time, whoever was the

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00:11:44,500 --> 00:11:46,900
head of the RNC. 
At the time I said, I tell you 

230
00:11:46,900 --> 00:11:50,700
what and I was really bye-bye. 
95 96. 

231
00:11:50,700 --> 00:11:53,200
I was really frustrated with the
Republican Party. 

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I said you put him on the phone 
and I will, I'll give you 1,000 

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00:12:00,300 --> 00:12:02,100
bucks. 
He gives me 5 minutes. 5 

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00:12:02,100 --> 00:12:03,400
minutes, I'll give you 1,000 
bucks. 

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Well, they actually tried the 
fundraiser. 

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00:12:05,100 --> 00:12:07,200
I think they probably get 
commissions for, you know, the 

237
00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:11,500
the guys that get on the phone 
and call for what they raised. 

238
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And so he tried and but they 
never got on the phone. 

239
00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:18,100
And so, I never contributed to 
the GOP again and then something

240
00:12:18,100 --> 00:12:22,500
happened in 1998. 
I went to a financial conference

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00:12:22,500 --> 00:12:26,700
in Aruba They'll island of Aruba
off the coast of Venezuela. 

242
00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:30,000
And guess who was the keynote 
speaker? 

243
00:12:30,100 --> 00:12:34,200
A guy by the name of Ron Paul 
and everything changed. 

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00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:37,400
At that point, you just got 
bills, thumbs up over there. 

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00:12:38,300 --> 00:12:42,100
I saw that you parked up. 
That's his guy, he's got a 

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00:12:42,100 --> 00:12:43,800
picture. 
I think with both of the Paul's,

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00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:46,800
oh, yeah, one of his proud 
moments, he's got some with his 

248
00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:49,000
brother there too. 
So, you're in a rubra. 

249
00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:51,600
You got to meet Ron, Paul. 
And did you have conversation 

250
00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:53,600
with them, or you listen to him?
So, I did, I didn't get to have 

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00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:57,300
Don't get to meet him, just a 
saw saw his address and I 

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00:12:57,600 --> 00:12:59,800
everything that he said, 
resonated with me. 

253
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And obviously, you know, he was 
a elected Congressional member 

254
00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:10,100
of the Republican party but I 
knew he wasn't one of them and 

255
00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:13,900
he helped clarify in my own 
mind. 

256
00:13:13,900 --> 00:13:20,400
Why I wasn't one of them either,
but I subsequently Ike, I came 

257
00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:23,600
home and went to a Libertarian 
party meeting the first. 

258
00:13:23,700 --> 00:13:26,900
Time I'd ever been to one and it
was, we were pulling up on thing

259
00:13:26,900 --> 00:13:29,000
on the, the 2000 year election 
cycle. 

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So I went to a meeting where all
of the North Carolina State 

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00:13:31,300 --> 00:13:34,300
candidates were, they're giving 
their little two cents in at 

262
00:13:34,300 --> 00:13:35,600
this, at this particular 
meeting. 

263
00:13:35,900 --> 00:13:38,800
And at the end of that 
particular session, I went up to

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00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:42,900
the state libertarian party 
chair and sat down next to her 

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00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:46,700
and waited my turn to give a, 
you know, are just to meet and 

266
00:13:46,700 --> 00:13:50,200
have a little conversation and I
asked her, I said, what do you 

267
00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:53,400
think of Ron? 
Paul, she was, oh my gosh, he's 

268
00:13:53,400 --> 00:13:58,300
my Ro and I said, well why don't
you guys do the same thing that 

269
00:13:58,300 --> 00:14:02,900
he's doing and take your message
into the game because you're 

270
00:14:02,900 --> 00:14:07,100
obviously not in the game. 
I was crawling with the time the

271
00:14:07,100 --> 00:14:11,500
1% Club because that was about 
the degree of effectiveness of 

272
00:14:11,500 --> 00:14:15,200
that ever had in any one 
particular election and it's 

273
00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:17,000
coming off. 
Like that's coming off. 

274
00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:20,200
What Robert Ross Perot coming in
and basically got one at the 

275
00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:21,900
best they've ever done in a 
presidential I think. 

276
00:14:22,100 --> 00:14:23,500
Yeah, yeah. 
And of course roster. 

277
00:14:23,700 --> 00:14:29,700
Errol got 19% in 92 and then 
nine percent again with dull 

278
00:14:29,700 --> 00:14:32,900
Clinton in 96, so he did 
actually better than that. 

279
00:14:33,100 --> 00:14:34,200
Yeah, yeah. 
Ross Perot. 

280
00:14:34,500 --> 00:14:37,700
Well, I mean, Clinton won the 92
election with less than forty 

281
00:14:37,700 --> 00:14:40,400
three percent of the vote and 
that was because of what Ross 

282
00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:45,100
did to the Elder Bush. 
But the point being is that I 

283
00:14:45,100 --> 00:14:48,300
asked the state party chair 
will, why aren't y'all following

284
00:14:48,300 --> 00:14:50,700
the model there? 
I mean he's in the game, he's 

285
00:14:50,700 --> 00:14:54,400
playing, you're not and she 
said, oh no, we're We really 

286
00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:57,000
have to focus on building the 
party and so I never joined the 

287
00:14:57,008 --> 00:14:59,700
party that makes sense. 
Not located than that. 

288
00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:04,300
Yeah, that makes total sense and
and it's also kind of a 

289
00:15:04,308 --> 00:15:06,500
frustration too, because there's
a seems like a missed 

290
00:15:06,500 --> 00:15:09,100
opportunity in that for. 
I don't know what ideological 

291
00:15:09,100 --> 00:15:12,900
Purity, something to that 
effect, it is, and that's what 

292
00:15:12,900 --> 00:15:16,600
has been my ongoing frustration.
I always call them, you know, my

293
00:15:16,600 --> 00:15:20,400
there, they're my close cousins 
and I do attend libertarian 

294
00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:23,600
party events on occasion. 
I've been invited to speak at 

295
00:15:23,700 --> 00:15:27,200
Libertarian chapters around the 
country and have done that. 

296
00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:32,600
They know that I'm a friend, but
they also know that I have a, 

297
00:15:34,900 --> 00:15:39,000
you know, I have, I have a 
problem with the I have a 

298
00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:41,300
problem with the methodology is 
what it is. 

299
00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:45,700
I've always thought that they 
would have been better organized

300
00:15:45,700 --> 00:15:49,200
as a disruptive Association 
rather than a party. 

301
00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:52,100
And when I say that something 
like the what we called the tea 

302
00:15:52,100 --> 00:15:54,900
party was never a party. 
But it was a disruptive 

303
00:15:54,900 --> 00:15:59,900
Association that had a viable 
and, and measurable impact. 

304
00:15:59,900 --> 00:16:03,500
When, you know, it was a 2010 
ish when that that whole thing 

305
00:16:03,500 --> 00:16:07,800
erupted and I've always tried to
convey that that's should be 

306
00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:10,600
there. 
MO is to go at go at politics. 

307
00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:15,800
That way be disruptive go in and
threaten the local GOP or 

308
00:16:15,800 --> 00:16:19,000
Democratic candidate, whichever 
one it is, and let them know. 

309
00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:23,500
You're either going to yield on 
these two, three, four issues. 

310
00:16:23,700 --> 00:16:25,300
Whatever. 
And and if that's the case, 

311
00:16:25,300 --> 00:16:27,800
because in these particular 
these tight races, now that 

312
00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:32,000
we're seeing that are being one,
either side by half a percent of

313
00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:35,700
the vote, the libertarian party 
could come in and negotiate and 

314
00:16:35,700 --> 00:16:37,900
become an influence over the 
agenda. 

315
00:16:38,100 --> 00:16:40,600
And by the way, you're either 
going to stick with us on these 

316
00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:44,100
three or four issues throughout 
your legislative four years, two

317
00:16:44,100 --> 00:16:46,600
years, whatever is going to be 
we're going to bury you next 

318
00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:48,000
time and we're going to go the 
other way. 

319
00:16:48,500 --> 00:16:51,100
Mmm, and I've always thought 
that that would be the better 

320
00:16:51,100 --> 00:16:56,200
way to get them in the game. 
Course otherwise take the cream 

321
00:16:56,200 --> 00:16:58,900
of their crop, the best voices 
that they have. 

322
00:16:58,900 --> 00:17:02,700
And they do have some generally 
good voices, but most successful

323
00:17:02,700 --> 00:17:07,800
that we have seen, we saw Gary 
Johnson, he was a governor New 

324
00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:10,900
Mexico. 
Vetoed more bills than any 

325
00:17:10,900 --> 00:17:13,200
Governor's ever vetoed. 
I think in the history of the 

326
00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:16,000
United States, I think he during
his eight years what he he be 

327
00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:18,500
toted seven or eight hundred 
bills. 

328
00:17:18,500 --> 00:17:20,900
That's phenomenal if he did 
nothing else other than just 

329
00:17:20,900 --> 00:17:24,700
kill legislation because if you 
ever known Of any legislation 

330
00:17:24,700 --> 00:17:27,900
that promoted our extended 
Freedom or protected, Freedom, 

331
00:17:27,900 --> 00:17:31,900
or gave us anything back. 
That is the libertarian 

332
00:17:31,900 --> 00:17:33,400
position. 
It's like just stay out of my 

333
00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:34,300
business. 
I don't need it. 

334
00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:36,300
In fact, I'd love it. 
If Congress spent all their 

335
00:17:36,300 --> 00:17:38,400
time, just cutting laws, there's
enough of them. 

336
00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:41,600
They could probably cut 
something every month or so, and

337
00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:43,900
we'd be in great shape. 
They could just, you know, 

338
00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:48,300
reduce some of the Log Jam 
there, but Gary Johnson, 

339
00:17:48,300 --> 00:17:53,000
basically, swept himself into 
the Dustbin of history when he 

340
00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:55,600
left the GOP. 
He could have kept the same 

341
00:17:55,600 --> 00:17:57,400
philosophy. 
He could have stayed in there 

342
00:17:57,400 --> 00:17:59,100
and he could have been an 
effective Force. 

343
00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:04,200
Justin Amash did the same thing 
by leaving and and I could 

344
00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:06,800
comment on what I think. 
We're his mistakes all day long,

345
00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:10,700
although I love the guy, Thomas,
Massie again, is showing us the 

346
00:18:10,700 --> 00:18:14,100
way it should be done as one of 
those guys on the hill. 

347
00:18:14,700 --> 00:18:19,100
Obviously, Rand Paul is my 
current Capitol Hill 

348
00:18:19,100 --> 00:18:23,900
philosophical twin. 
Brother, I heard him Yeah. 

349
00:18:23,900 --> 00:18:28,000
Oh yeah, he absolutely is has 
been since he's been there fair 

350
00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:30,000
enough. 
So with that being the 

351
00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:32,700
background that you're looking 
at, they've moved politics into 

352
00:18:32,700 --> 00:18:37,100
the driver's seat for you in 
March of 2020 and we're not 

353
00:18:37,100 --> 00:18:38,800
going to get two weeks to slow 
the spread. 

354
00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:41,200
As you found out, we were going 
to have however long it was 

355
00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:43,300
going to be 15 months. 
It sounds like took you out of 

356
00:18:43,300 --> 00:18:48,200
your day job. 
And so you started, you know, 

357
00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:49,400
getting more involved in this 
thing. 

358
00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:51,700
What made you first of all, what
were your initial thoughts about

359
00:18:51,700 --> 00:18:53,100
attending? 
January 6? 

360
00:18:53,100 --> 00:18:55,200
Because, obviously, We're going 
to go as far as how you got 

361
00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:58,200
involved with dealing with 
federal law enforcement, what 

362
00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:00,600
made you decide to go? 
And did you have any sort of 

363
00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:02,600
concerns or hesitancy before 
showing up? 

364
00:19:03,100 --> 00:19:04,900
No, I had no concerns 
whatsoever. 

365
00:19:04,900 --> 00:19:07,600
I'm not a riot Chaser. 
I don't, I don't do that thing. 

366
00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:10,700
And of course, even here in 
Raleigh, North Carolina, we had 

367
00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:15,200
the significant problems with 
the BLM post George, Floyd death

368
00:19:15,300 --> 00:19:17,200
riots here as well. 
I mean, they destroyed our 

369
00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:20,300
downtown destroyed, the 
infrastructure and the economy 

370
00:19:20,300 --> 00:19:24,500
downtown, just those riots alone
and I Of course, followed them 

371
00:19:24,500 --> 00:19:28,300
and I was I lived as the crow 
flies as a mile and a half from 

372
00:19:28,300 --> 00:19:31,600
the state capitol. 
And I just sat on my front 

373
00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:35,900
porch, with my laptop and I had 
all of the local channels live 

374
00:19:35,900 --> 00:19:39,600
streams pulled up on my, you 
know, my tabs on my browser with

375
00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:42,800
my rifle sitting beside me in 
case, they came my way. 

376
00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:45,100
And that's, that's, that's what 
I did. 

377
00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:48,900
And I watched the helicopter 
shots and the street shots and 

378
00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:50,500
all that was going on in those 
riots. 

379
00:19:50,500 --> 00:19:54,000
During that time, they never 
came my Direction but The 

380
00:19:55,300 --> 00:20:01,000
concern about January 6, wasn't 
there at all and the reality is 

381
00:20:01,300 --> 00:20:04,200
if we go back to the political 
for a moment is that I have 

382
00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:10,000
never been a trump supporter, I 
very antagonistically campaigned

383
00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:12,000
against him and wrote against 
him. 

384
00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:16,800
I was I was in 2016. 
A hashtag never Trumper in 2016.

385
00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:20,600
I was also a hashtag never, 
whenever Hillary, which drove me

386
00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:24,500
for the first time in my life, I
actually in a in a National 

387
00:20:24,500 --> 00:20:27,500
election voted for the 
libertarian candidate, which is 

388
00:20:27,508 --> 00:20:31,400
Gary Johnson, of course. 
And then when 2020 rolled 

389
00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:36,800
around, I had because now we had
a track record from Trump and of

390
00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:41,300
course, I know they don't like 
to hear this wasted vote 

391
00:20:41,900 --> 00:20:44,200
argument. 
I know the Liberty, my friends 

392
00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:45,800
in the libertarian party, don't 
like that. 

393
00:20:46,100 --> 00:20:50,800
But the reality is, it is true 
and I had measured and I had 

394
00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:53,000
scored Trump for his four years 
in office. 

395
00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:57,700
Now, As about a 50-50 on my own 
personal liberty, liberty, 

396
00:20:57,700 --> 00:21:02,300
liberty, scorecard, and I had 
Biden it about a negative 15. 

397
00:21:02,300 --> 00:21:07,000
So I had no choice but to pull 
the lever for Trump, and when I,

398
00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:12,400
when I actually wrote My article
finally admitting confessing how

399
00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:17,600
we want to say it to endorsing 
Trump, my, the image that I used

400
00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:20,100
for my article was the old 
Hollywood Squares. 

401
00:21:20,100 --> 00:21:22,600
You remember that? 
It was the tic-tac-toe with the 

402
00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:25,600
Though. 
And I said, you know, I'll take 

403
00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:30,900
the the Trump Square to block. 
That's not a ringing endorsement

404
00:21:30,900 --> 00:21:33,600
but nevertheless that's exactly 
what it was. 

405
00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:36,800
It was a vote to block the B 
Administration from coming to 

406
00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:39,000
being which that was not 
successful. 

407
00:21:39,500 --> 00:21:46,100
So my intention for going to 
January 6th was as a reporter I 

408
00:21:46,100 --> 00:21:50,400
brought my camera my tripod my I
had that little man on the 

409
00:21:50,408 --> 00:21:52,800
street microphone you know that 
you wave around in front of 

410
00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:56,400
people's faces. 
After the, the speeches at the 

411
00:21:56,400 --> 00:22:00,900
ellipse, I was going to post up 
somewhere on the cap on knew 

412
00:22:00,900 --> 00:22:03,800
that there were other things, 
scheduled at the Capitol. 

413
00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:05,800
There were marches, there were 
other rallies. 

414
00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:09,700
There was another stage that was
at the Capitol grounds. 

415
00:22:10,100 --> 00:22:12,200
It was so a permanent events. 
There is that, is that right? 

416
00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:13,600
Like, that's what I'm 
understanding. 20. 

417
00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:15,900
Absolutely. 
There were, there were there 

418
00:22:15,900 --> 00:22:19,600
were eight different permitted 
events? 

419
00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:24,300
No, this is the important thing 
permitted by the United States 

420
00:22:24,300 --> 00:22:30,400
Capitol Police, I saw the actual
permits and the signatures from 

421
00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:34,100
USC P leadership while I was 
sitting in The Oath Keepers 

422
00:22:34,100 --> 00:22:36,900
trial because I was there every 
single day for all nine weeks of

423
00:22:36,900 --> 00:22:40,300
the first o Keepers trial. 
So I saw that evidence brought 

424
00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:44,300
brought forward, so, yes, there 
were permitted events or been 

425
00:22:44,300 --> 00:22:47,600
announced that it had been 
announcements in flyers, and 

426
00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:50,800
internet postings about 
additional events at the 

427
00:22:50,808 --> 00:22:52,700
capital. 
And, of course, the president 

428
00:22:52,700 --> 00:22:55,300
did make reference He said, 
we're moving over to the Capitol

429
00:22:55,300 --> 00:22:57,800
to peacefully, you know, make 
our voices heard. 

430
00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:02,300
So what he said and myself, I 
was there with another writer 

431
00:23:02,300 --> 00:23:07,200
from Raleigh writer of some 
esteem but he would rather I not

432
00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:12,100
mention that he was there. 
And although the FBI does know 

433
00:23:12,100 --> 00:23:14,900
already because they in my 
interview, they asked me if he 

434
00:23:14,900 --> 00:23:18,000
was there. 
So, well, I couldn't lie, right?

435
00:23:18,100 --> 00:23:19,900
So you can decline to talk that 
much. 

436
00:23:19,900 --> 00:23:22,600
We may talk about in a second. 
I think that we will that's one 

437
00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:24,600
of those strong moves. 
A lot of people feel very 

438
00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:27,900
uncomfortable doing. 
I'll tell you why I did later on

439
00:23:27,900 --> 00:23:31,000
when you bring that up. 
So, but what ended up happening 

440
00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:35,300
is we left the speeches where we
left less than halfway through. 

441
00:23:35,300 --> 00:23:38,000
Trump speech to go ahead and get
in front of the crowd and going 

442
00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:41,700
and get down to the Capitol. 
Number one, it was insanely cold

443
00:23:41,700 --> 00:23:44,900
with, you know, 25 30 mile, an 
hour, winds whipping through 

444
00:23:44,900 --> 00:23:49,200
there and just having a nice 
brick, brisk walk to the 

445
00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:51,400
capital. 
At that point was going to feel 

446
00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:53,400
good. 
So we started moving towards the

447
00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:57,400
Capital first thing that I 
noticed all day and with all the

448
00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:02,100
videos that I took that day, 
there's never a single law 

449
00:24:02,100 --> 00:24:06,500
enforcement officer, ever once 
comes into frame, now we're in 

450
00:24:06,500 --> 00:24:11,300
the nation's capital, there is 
not a Park police, there's not a

451
00:24:11,300 --> 00:24:16,600
metro police officer, there's 
not a United States Capitol. 

452
00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:20,300
Police officer that ever enters 
my camera frames until I'm 

453
00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:22,800
actually on the West Terrace of 
the capital. 

454
00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:26,600
The entire time that we were at 
the Washington Monument Lon not 

455
00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:30,100
a single cop the entire walk. 
The mile walk over to the 

456
00:24:30,108 --> 00:24:35,000
Capitol not a single cop. 
It was not until we basically 

457
00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:38,000
reached the reflection pool, you
know, near the peace Monument 

458
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:40,900
there, on the west side of the 
Capitol that we could hear the 

459
00:24:40,900 --> 00:24:45,200
sirens arriving and then I look 
up and I can see the yellow, the

460
00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:49,800
fluorescent vest of the NPD 
officers coming down the stairs 

461
00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:52,600
and then we saw smoke and then 
we heard the first flash bangs 

462
00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:54,700
and I looked over at At the 
other gentleman, I was with and 

463
00:24:54,700 --> 00:24:56,500
I said that's where we're 
headed. 

464
00:24:57,300 --> 00:24:59,300
And so we broke out in the 
trodden. 

465
00:24:59,300 --> 00:25:02,200
Went straight to the West 
Terrace and that's marked 

466
00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:04,900
anyway, just out of curiosity or
you just carrying your equipment

467
00:25:04,900 --> 00:25:07,000
now, just carrying I had a 
backpack without everything in 

468
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:10,200
it and that was it, okay? 
You weren't pulling the antifa 

469
00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:12,100
thing where you wear like a 
helmet that says you're going to

470
00:25:12,100 --> 00:25:15,800
Riot but also it says press you 
don't get a relative I wore no 

471
00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:19,600
riot gear whatsoever whatsoever.
But the most interesting part of

472
00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:24,900
my first Realization that 
something was wrong here. 

473
00:25:25,100 --> 00:25:30,700
Were the credentialed Press 
photographers on the front line 

474
00:25:30,700 --> 00:25:34,800
of the West Terrace battle line 
in full riot gear. 

475
00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:37,600
They look like War 
correspondence, you know, they 

476
00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:40,900
had their best on, they had 
their helmets on, they had gas 

477
00:25:40,900 --> 00:25:45,200
masks and they were there on the
front line before the president 

478
00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:51,500
ever finished his speech. 
So how did they know? 

479
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:53,500
That's my first question of the 
day. 

480
00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:55,600
So the first thing that crossed 
my mind that day. 

481
00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:58,400
How did these guys know to be 
there in full? 

482
00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:01,200
Riot gear to capture? 
What was happening? 

483
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:04,400
When a mile and a half away? 
The president of the United 

484
00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:08,500
States is it's like wait a 
minute, he's over here. 

485
00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:11,200
What are you doing here? 
And the distance there? 

486
00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:13,700
Makes it about uh probably 
twenty five minute walk. 

487
00:26:13,700 --> 00:26:17,500
Probably for most people if not 
longer for who are not stepping 

488
00:26:17,500 --> 00:26:19,400
it out for a couple of healthy 
guys. 

489
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:22,200
Like, we are myself and the 
other Almond. 

490
00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:24,300
We we were we were putting it, 
man. 

491
00:26:24,300 --> 00:26:26,300
We were enjoying the bra, the 
walk. 

492
00:26:26,300 --> 00:26:30,200
We both of us are in shape and 
we, we made it very quickly, but

493
00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:35,100
for the average rather rotund 
overweight 40 percent body fat, 

494
00:26:35,100 --> 00:26:38,100
you know, average American. 
It's a, it's an hour walk. 

495
00:26:38,900 --> 00:26:43,000
Now, that was your first 
question, have you come to some 

496
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:46,100
answers over the past two years 
or maybe? 

497
00:26:46,100 --> 00:26:47,500
Even during the time you were 
standing there. 

498
00:26:47,500 --> 00:26:49,900
Did you come to some answers 
about how they figure that thing

499
00:26:49,900 --> 00:26:53,500
out back to the bar? 
Otherwise, if we're talking 

500
00:26:53,500 --> 00:26:56,700
about the photographers 
themselves, there are some 

501
00:26:57,300 --> 00:26:59,900
logical reasons why they might 
be their. 

502
00:27:00,300 --> 00:27:03,000
First of all, some of these 
guys. 

503
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:06,800
They they carry their own 
equipment bags and that gear is 

504
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:09,000
just part of their, their backs.
All right? 

505
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:13,100
So it's not unusual for them to 
have that with them. 

506
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:16,100
Some of the guys that were there
were in fact, actual War 

507
00:27:16,100 --> 00:27:21,000
correspondence that they this is
they've got the resumes of 

508
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:24,600
having been over these and been 
in Afghanistan and and other 

509
00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:32,000
hotspots around the world. 
Some of these guys though seemed

510
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:41,400
and I do everything that I can 
from my own investigative mind 

511
00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:43,900
and we can talk about where that
comes from two as well because 

512
00:27:43,900 --> 00:27:47,300
this, this didn't just happen in
the last three years, I have 

513
00:27:47,300 --> 00:27:54,300
some history there as well, but 
the point being is that I I saw 

514
00:27:54,300 --> 00:27:57,800
people including those 
photographers that were 

515
00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:02,800
completely out of place and they
weren't there accidentally and 

516
00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:05,800
you and, you know, you just, you
have that gut instinct. 

517
00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:07,800
You know what I mean, is that 
you have to go by. 

518
00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:11,900
My dad was a, was a private 
investigator and he had the 

519
00:28:11,900 --> 00:28:14,200
profilers gift, if you know what
that is. 

520
00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:19,200
He used to find his specialty 
was missing persons, and he was 

521
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:23,100
often hired by back down in 
Louisiana and Texas by these 

522
00:28:23,100 --> 00:28:24,500
rich. 
Oil billionaires that were 

523
00:28:24,508 --> 00:28:28,000
having, you know, domestic 
crises and their children's 

524
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:31,100
home, and they would have the 
husband or whatever would 

525
00:28:31,100 --> 00:28:34,500
disappear in a with the child 
and they would run off to 

526
00:28:34,500 --> 00:28:36,900
another state somewhere. 
So, you had those types of 

527
00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:41,500
domestic, kidnapping, type 
situations, and my dad would end

528
00:28:41,500 --> 00:28:45,500
up picking up the cases of for 
finding individuals that either 

529
00:28:45,500 --> 00:28:50,800
the FBI was not really looking 
for or they didn't find and he 

530
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:52,500
would find them. 
Almost immediately. 

531
00:28:52,500 --> 00:28:55,900
He just had that Profilers gift.
And so he picked up a lot of 

532
00:28:55,900 --> 00:29:00,300
cases like that. 
And so, the point being is that 

533
00:29:00,300 --> 00:29:04,900
is that with that instinct kind 
of genetically encoded in me, I 

534
00:29:04,900 --> 00:29:07,800
saw things that didn't make 
sense at the time and began to 

535
00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:11,600
ask a lot of questions. 
And my first article that I 

536
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:15,700
wrote it was a, you know, it was
a 9,500 word screed. 

537
00:29:15,700 --> 00:29:19,700
It was it came out one week 
after the event and it was 

538
00:29:19,700 --> 00:29:23,200
simply entitled what I saw on 
January 6th and I just told the 

539
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:26,000
knee Narrative of this beginning
of my day till the end of my 

540
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:28,500
day. 
And what I saw with a that 

541
00:29:28,500 --> 00:29:31,300
asking questions, as well. 
Now, by the time, I wrote that 

542
00:29:31,300 --> 00:29:34,400
first article, I had also had 
time to do frame by frame by 

543
00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:38,400
frame analysis of all my videos.
And that was really what began 

544
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:42,100
the question asking process 
because your brain in a highly 

545
00:29:42,100 --> 00:29:45,200
kinetic situation like that can 
only take in so much unless 

546
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:48,100
you're just trained. 
Maybe these, maybe these trained

547
00:29:48,100 --> 00:29:50,200
Riot, Chasers and War 
correspondents. 

548
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:53,100
Maybe they can you're saying no,
but I don't think so. 

549
00:29:53,500 --> 00:29:55,700
Will you any big? 
So there's there's a once the 

550
00:29:55,700 --> 00:29:57,900
sympathetic nervous system kicks
in because you're in the 

551
00:29:58,300 --> 00:30:00,200
scenario where you're going to 
have to deal with some survival 

552
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:02,000
possibilities and that's what 
happens when people start 

553
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:05,500
spraying CS gas around and think
that or rubber bullets or 

554
00:30:05,500 --> 00:30:09,300
flashbangs, everybody's mind 
Narrows to Mission tasks. 

555
00:30:09,500 --> 00:30:11,300
You know. 
Sure your main content is not 

556
00:30:11,300 --> 00:30:13,000
going to be investigative what's
going on. 

557
00:30:13,100 --> 00:30:15,000
It's going to be like how do I 
not get hit in the head with one

558
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:17,400
of those things? 
It knowing you're exactly. 

559
00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:19,500
Right. 
Because what I started doing was

560
00:30:19,500 --> 00:30:23,800
I started aiming my camera in 
one place and then I would Watch

561
00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:30,300
the cop that had either the big 
tank of spray or the the rubber 

562
00:30:30,300 --> 00:30:34,900
bullet guns or the flashbang 
grenade launchers, o site. 

563
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:37,900
So, I'm keeping my eye on them 
and yet, even though I was 

564
00:30:37,900 --> 00:30:40,600
keeping my eye on them and 
nobody ever targeted me because 

565
00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:42,800
I was never a threat. 
I was never doing any violence. 

566
00:30:43,100 --> 00:30:46,600
I was always handling myself as 
professionally as I could, 

567
00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:50,600
possibly present myself in that 
as a, as a photographer at the 

568
00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:54,400
time is that I was never 
targeted, but That wind in the 

569
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:57,500
splash I got, I actually got hit
with some of that spray, it's 

570
00:30:57,500 --> 00:30:59,300
not anything I ever want to 
experience again. 

571
00:30:59,300 --> 00:31:03,800
So that I became as you said I 
became very, very after that. 

572
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:07,700
First time I got hit became very
focused on where it was coming 

573
00:31:07,700 --> 00:31:11,800
from and so I just letting the 
camera do its thing and I'm the 

574
00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:15,500
survival Instinct kicked in. 
I got hit by a flashbang one 

575
00:31:15,500 --> 00:31:18,900
time it landed. 
A was I was back in the crowd at

576
00:31:18,900 --> 00:31:22,500
this point and as you have 
probably seen the videos some of

577
00:31:22,508 --> 00:31:25,700
the Metropolitan Police Police 
officers were actually launching

578
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:31,100
those grenades over the battle 
line and into the more peaceful.

579
00:31:31,100 --> 00:31:33,500
As we call them the peaceful 
protesters that were just 

580
00:31:33,500 --> 00:31:35,400
watching what was going on. 
It's time. 

581
00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:38,000
Sure. 
And and One landed about three 

582
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:41,000
or four feet off to my right 
exploded trap will hit me in the

583
00:31:41,300 --> 00:31:44,100
side of my leg and I carried a 
bruise there for several months 

584
00:31:44,100 --> 00:31:47,100
as a result of that. 
So probably would have been 

585
00:31:47,100 --> 00:31:50,300
worse if I had not done exactly 
what you just described there is

586
00:31:50,500 --> 00:31:55,100
took on a different stance 
mentally but But the point again

587
00:31:55,100 --> 00:31:58,300
being is that when I got home 
and started processing the 

588
00:31:58,300 --> 00:32:03,400
video, then I started seeing the
stuff that caused me to write 

589
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:07,300
the second article, which was 
came out about six weeks later 

590
00:32:07,300 --> 00:32:11,300
and that was entitled who was up
to chain on January 6 because 

591
00:32:11,300 --> 00:32:14,900
now I'm looking at who was 
behind this thing. 

592
00:32:15,500 --> 00:32:19,600
Sure, the riot police that were 
out there on that day. 

593
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:21,800
You mentioned I'm firing 
grenades over the top of the 

594
00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:24,000
crowd into the rear of it. 
Where people People were hanging

595
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:25,900
out and they were obviously just
Milling about, they were not 

596
00:32:25,900 --> 00:32:28,100
involved in trying to tear down 
fencing or anything along those 

597
00:32:28,100 --> 00:32:31,600
lines. 
Did you see did it seem to you 

598
00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:32,600
that they knew what they were 
doing that? 

599
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:35,200
They were going to get a 
positive result of dispersing 

600
00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:36,900
the crowd or was it doing 
something else? 

601
00:32:37,500 --> 00:32:42,700
No, the first of all, let's 
start with the tear gas. 

602
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:46,900
It was totally ineffective 
within the winds that it was, it

603
00:32:46,900 --> 00:32:50,100
would disperse immediately why 
they continued to even try. 

604
00:32:50,100 --> 00:32:52,000
That made no sense to me 
whatsoever. 

605
00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:58,300
The The pepper spray. 
After I took the first hit that 

606
00:32:58,300 --> 00:33:03,100
I got, I knew I never wanted to 
ever have that happen again, but

607
00:33:03,100 --> 00:33:08,100
I saw individuals walking right 
up to them standing there. 

608
00:33:08,100 --> 00:33:12,000
Staring in them in the face, and
taunting them for a direct hit, 

609
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:14,000
and they would take. 
I got it on film. 

610
00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:16,800
I've got it on my own video 
camera, guys. 

611
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:20,900
Taking direct hits and just 
taunting them afterwards. 

612
00:33:21,100 --> 00:33:22,900
Right. 
Well, there are small percent. 

613
00:33:22,900 --> 00:33:24,800
There's a small percentage of 
people that actually have a 

614
00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:26,300
resistance to cap. 
Jason. 

615
00:33:26,500 --> 00:33:27,900
Wow. 
Burning agents. 

616
00:33:28,100 --> 00:33:29,900
It's the same thing. 
I used to have a guy had a 

617
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:33,200
instructor that would take CS 
grenades and he put them in the 

618
00:33:33,500 --> 00:33:36,400
pockets of his eye was uniform. 
And he would walk into the woods

619
00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:38,900
when we were training and he 
would let him off in his pockets

620
00:33:38,900 --> 00:33:41,600
and then just stand there and 
watch everybody run at all 

621
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:44,300
directions, because he had a 
resistance to see us. 

622
00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:47,600
Now, if you put CSS in front of 
me, the tear gas in a non, you 

623
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:49,800
know, windy environment. 
I will literally have mucus 

624
00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:52,800
coming out of all my, you know, 
my eyes, my nose, my face smile,

625
00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:55,700
be drooling and Ratchet and all 
the things that people do. 

626
00:33:56,100 --> 00:33:59,000
So the people that reported 
being kind of like choked by the

627
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:02,400
gases they were down toward the 
tunnel, and I've been in a lot 

628
00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:04,400
of Twitter spaces with these 
folks that are, you know, J 6 

629
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:06,600
types and, and they were like, 
you know, they were killing us 

630
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:08,900
and said, oh no that's just, 
it's a choking agent, it's not 

631
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:11,600
it's not tear gas, tear. 
Gas is a misnomer, it's a 

632
00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:14,900
choking agent, it's CS gas, and,
and it's really awful and 

633
00:34:14,900 --> 00:34:17,100
luckily, for you, I guess it 
sounds like the winds were 

634
00:34:17,100 --> 00:34:18,100
there. 
Because if they started 

635
00:34:18,100 --> 00:34:20,100
lingering over the crowd, it 
would have been very nasty. 

636
00:34:20,699 --> 00:34:22,900
But it sounds like, but 
something weird happened. 

637
00:34:22,900 --> 00:34:30,199
There is, I felt like Because of
the limited amount of the effect

638
00:34:30,199 --> 00:34:34,500
that I was experiencing because 
of the winds that I was, in fact

639
00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:38,800
developing some sort of I was 
just getting used to it maybe to

640
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:42,900
a little to a certain extent 
because when I actually, then 

641
00:34:42,900 --> 00:34:47,199
went into the Capitol building 
and there was a huge release at 

642
00:34:47,199 --> 00:34:50,900
the house chamber doors. 
At one point, this is that that 

643
00:34:50,900 --> 00:34:52,600
famous scene, where the guys are
inside. 

644
00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:55,199
And they've got the, they've got
the furniture turned over and, 

645
00:34:55,300 --> 00:35:01,400
you know, The the plainclothes 
cops, got their guns, aimed at 

646
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:03,700
that door and you can see one 
guy's face through the broken 

647
00:35:03,700 --> 00:35:06,700
window and that sort of thing. 
And well, I was on the other 

648
00:35:06,700 --> 00:35:09,400
side of that door. 
But about 100 people back and I 

649
00:35:09,408 --> 00:35:12,300
was up against the wall and I 
was videoing this same. 

650
00:35:12,700 --> 00:35:17,400
And so I had, I had always while
I was in there, I was always 

651
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:19,300
trying to get up and back in a 
way. 

652
00:35:19,300 --> 00:35:21,600
So I could video. 
What was happening? 

653
00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:25,600
I wanted to get the the people 
that were engaged in whatever 

654
00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:26,900
they were. 
Oh, doing whether they were The 

655
00:35:26,900 --> 00:35:29,900
Accidental Tourist or whether 
they were doing property damage 

656
00:35:29,900 --> 00:35:32,600
or whatever they were doing, I 
wanted to capture that in my 

657
00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:35,000
camera. 
So I was so at one point I was 

658
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:40,500
moving to try and get a better 
position and above the crowd, 

659
00:35:40,500 --> 00:35:44,000
which was jam-packed trying to 
and people were up front, 

660
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:46,100
pounding on that door and 
they're chanting know whose 

661
00:35:46,100 --> 00:35:49,100
house our house USA. 
They're singing all these. 

662
00:35:49,100 --> 00:35:50,800
All this craziness, that was 
going on. 

663
00:35:50,900 --> 00:35:54,100
So I turned off my camera for a 
moment and I was positioning 

664
00:35:54,100 --> 00:35:58,400
into another area to get And 
above and then all of a sudden I

665
00:35:58,408 --> 00:36:02,700
hear the screams of teargas tear
gas and that and thankfully I 

666
00:36:02,700 --> 00:36:05,900
was off to the side because it 
became a stampede, the other 

667
00:36:05,900 --> 00:36:08,400
way. 
And by the time they cleared 

668
00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:12,600
there's this green thick gas 
hanging, right? 

669
00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:19,700
And now I'm 20 to 25 feet from 
the main entrance into the US 

670
00:36:19,700 --> 00:36:21,800
House of Representatives 
chamber. 

671
00:36:22,100 --> 00:36:25,200
You can't even see the door 
because that's how thick the gas

672
00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:27,700
was. 
At this point and people are 

673
00:36:27,700 --> 00:36:32,200
still running out of it. 
And there's an actual photo that

674
00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:39,000
came out the next day in market.
Watch and you can see me walking

675
00:36:39,100 --> 00:36:40,600
as people are walking away from 
it. 

676
00:36:40,700 --> 00:36:43,400
You see me walking dead into 
that green Cloud. 

677
00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:46,600
You can see my backpacking to 
see my tripod coming out of my, 

678
00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:50,200
the back of my backpack and I'm 
walking dead into that green 

679
00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:53,200
cloud and it for some reason. 
It just didn't seem to bother 

680
00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:54,900
me. 
It's very interesting. 

681
00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:58,000
Yeah, it's awful stuff. 
So good on you I guess. 

682
00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:00,900
Yeah I don't know. 
I mean you can even find tear 

683
00:37:00,900 --> 00:37:03,700
gas and even pepper spray 
afterwards to on things like 

684
00:37:03,700 --> 00:37:05,100
metal. 
It'll stick around and my 

685
00:37:05,100 --> 00:37:06,400
buddies. 
You can always tell where 

686
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:08,700
there's been a riot, when you go
in, we've done some, you know, 

687
00:37:08,700 --> 00:37:12,200
some post surveillance in areas 
like that and you go, what's 

688
00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:14,400
wrong with that railing and my 
buddy would go, it's spicy, you 

689
00:37:14,408 --> 00:37:17,000
know, I go like I don't want to 
touch that at all. 

690
00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:19,000
So you walked into that, you 
watch people clear out. 

691
00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:20,600
Was this the was that the actual
space? 

692
00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:22,500
Where Ashley Babbitt was 
eventually shot? 

693
00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:25,500
No, it was. 
It was, it was it exactly that 

694
00:37:25,500 --> 00:37:28,000
moment. 
Monteux by the, by the metadata,

695
00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:31,000
on my camera. 
Which I learned later is that 

696
00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:35,400
she basically, when that tear 
gas was released, it was on the 

697
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:39,000
other side of the Chamber, from 
where she was the speaker's 

698
00:37:39,700 --> 00:37:42,600
entrance, into the chamber was 
on the other side. 

699
00:37:42,900 --> 00:37:46,800
And and by my, as I said, by my 
camera's data, it was a 

700
00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:50,700
basically right at the moment 
within 30 seconds or so when she

701
00:37:50,700 --> 00:37:52,100
was shot. 
Interesting. 

702
00:37:52,300 --> 00:37:54,700
And I wonder why that why they 
were trying to retake that but 

703
00:37:54,700 --> 00:37:55,700
but it was effective at least 
it. 

704
00:37:55,900 --> 00:37:57,100
And people out there. 
We did. 

705
00:37:57,200 --> 00:38:00,600
Ya was there, it was there, a 
sense from being in that crowd, 

706
00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:02,300
sometimes, when you're in a 
crowd you can tell people are 

707
00:38:02,300 --> 00:38:03,400
just moving because they're 
moving. 

708
00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:04,800
There's an excitement, there's 
an energy. 

709
00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:08,200
There's a direction, was there? 
A was there? 

710
00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:10,500
A plan to This Crew? 
Or were these people just 

711
00:38:10,500 --> 00:38:12,200
banging on doors and making 
noise. 

712
00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:18,900
There was no identifiable plan. 
While I was there watching it 

713
00:38:19,100 --> 00:38:23,800
and filming it myself. 
The plan began to develop after 

714
00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:26,000
I started doing the 
frame-by-frame analysis of My 

715
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:29,300
video, you began to capture 
those who were obvious, 

716
00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:32,500
professional provocateurs that 
were in the crowd and they were 

717
00:38:32,500 --> 00:38:35,300
there. 
I mean there's there's just I 

718
00:38:35,300 --> 00:38:37,800
will never be convinced 
otherwise they were there. 

719
00:38:38,300 --> 00:38:40,300
I don't know who they're working
for, I still don't know. 

720
00:38:40,300 --> 00:38:42,600
I don't have the, I don't have 
the Smoking Gun or the, you 

721
00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:45,600
know, the, the absolute proof 
and I don't care. 

722
00:38:45,900 --> 00:38:48,100
I don't care. 
If I don't care, if Trump 

723
00:38:48,100 --> 00:38:49,600
himself hired them, I don't 
care. 

724
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:52,800
If it came from orders, from 
Pelosi, if it came from Merrick 

725
00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:57,300
Garland, if it came from some 
dark money, Dark group in the 

726
00:38:57,300 --> 00:38:59,800
FB, I don't care. 
It doesn't matter to me or the 

727
00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:01,000
Russians or the Chinese, it 
doesn't matter. 

728
00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:03,200
Right now you are just observing
what it was. 

729
00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:06,600
And and and I'm interested in 
hearing more about that because 

730
00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:09,600
you seem like a very sane and 
sober voice in this you don't 

731
00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:11,300
have a lot of emotion, one way 
or another, which is the way 

732
00:39:11,300 --> 00:39:13,700
that I want people to talk about
these things because that's the 

733
00:39:13,700 --> 00:39:15,200
only way you're going to find 
out what the truth is. 

734
00:39:15,500 --> 00:39:17,200
And then you get a lot of these 
people. 

735
00:39:17,500 --> 00:39:20,400
They have a vested interest in 
it being somebody in particular 

736
00:39:20,900 --> 00:39:22,700
and it doesn't sound like you. 
You just said you don't care. 

737
00:39:22,700 --> 00:39:24,100
And it doesn't tell you have an 
interest in either. 

738
00:39:24,100 --> 00:39:28,300
Doesn't really make a difference
to your Your to your outcomes of

739
00:39:28,300 --> 00:39:30,700
your life, whether it was any of
those groups or none of those 

740
00:39:30,700 --> 00:39:32,100
groups. 
And somebody else completely is 

741
00:39:32,100 --> 00:39:37,100
that accurate, as far as 
identifying, who was behind it 

742
00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:41,700
that does not matter to me. 
I am passionately engaged in the

743
00:39:41,700 --> 00:39:43,500
process of discovering who it 
was though. 

744
00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:46,400
That's fair because it was 
something you witnessed in, 

745
00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:48,200
obviously, we're hearing a 
counter narrative, which is to 

746
00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:50,600
say this was a bunch of proud, 
boys. 

747
00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:52,500
A bunch of Oath, Keepers, 
whatever it was that were out 

748
00:39:52,500 --> 00:39:56,000
there causing this. 
All right, so, let's And I 

749
00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:57,400
didn't know you were, we're 
going to talk about any this 

750
00:39:57,400 --> 00:39:58,400
stuff that's why I like doing 
this. 

751
00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:00,700
I kind of like to know who I'm 
talking to, but not all their 

752
00:40:00,700 --> 00:40:03,500
story and I think I do myself a 
disservice. 

753
00:40:03,500 --> 00:40:05,900
If I find out too much about 
what your story, lay me out, 

754
00:40:05,900 --> 00:40:08,600
some of the groundwork of why 
you believe there were 

755
00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:12,600
professional provocateurs and 
the coordination that you saw 

756
00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:15,300
that indicated in your mind, 
being a student of server. 

757
00:40:15,300 --> 00:40:17,900
And and somebody who's not 
involved in, you know, there's 

758
00:40:17,900 --> 00:40:18,900
no outcome that you're looking 
for. 

759
00:40:18,900 --> 00:40:22,000
In that day, you're just 
capturing film and look into to 

760
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:24,900
be just an independent 
journalist showing. 

761
00:40:24,900 --> 00:40:26,800
What did happen? 
Not you know what you wanted to 

762
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:29,100
happen? 
It sounds like well I made a 

763
00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:33,700
video the night of January 6th 
from my hotel room with this 

764
00:40:33,700 --> 00:40:38,200
other journalists that I was 
there with and it was we poured 

765
00:40:38,200 --> 00:40:40,700
a couple drinks a couple steps 
stiff drinks. 

766
00:40:40,900 --> 00:40:43,500
He had he had he did not go into
the Capitol. 

767
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:47,300
In fact, he got hit seven or 
eight times from the downwind. 

768
00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:50,200
You know, splash of that pepper 
spray and he just got the heck 

769
00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:52,200
out of there. 
So he pulled back and got away. 

770
00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:54,600
He wasn't filming or anything. 
He was just watching. 

771
00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:58,400
So he got he got Got Away. 
Got up when got it a distance 

772
00:40:58,400 --> 00:40:59,800
and just watched was taking 
place. 

773
00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:02,600
Did not go into the capital. 
He eventually went to back to 

774
00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:06,600
his hotel earlier in the I was I
never left until after the 

775
00:41:06,600 --> 00:41:09,500
curfew. 
I was, I stayed in the area till

776
00:41:09,500 --> 00:41:13,900
well after dark, we had this 
anticipation that Aunt Agatha 

777
00:41:13,900 --> 00:41:17,100
was going to show up after dark.
And so I wanted to be there to 

778
00:41:17,100 --> 00:41:19,500
capture that if that happened 
the didn't. 

779
00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:23,700
So I got back to the hotel, 
probably 8, or 8:30. 

780
00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:28,100
In Arlington. 
And we poured a drink turned on 

781
00:41:28,100 --> 00:41:32,100
the camera, we sat down in front
of it, made a quick about a 

782
00:41:32,107 --> 00:41:35,600
30-minute kind of a. 
Post-mortem on what we saw, what

783
00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:40,200
we experienced. 
I was pretty rattled by then and

784
00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:43,400
we uploaded it that night. 
And I made some false 

785
00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:47,000
observations are what I because 
what I thought again, I had not 

786
00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:48,900
seen my own video yet at this 
time. 

787
00:41:49,300 --> 00:41:53,000
So as we were describing the 
crowd, I clearly described it as

788
00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:55,600
a pro Trump magazine. 
Agra crowd that was doing the 

789
00:41:55,600 --> 00:41:58,000
damage, doing the violence, and 
was causing the Mayhem and 

790
00:41:58,000 --> 00:41:59,700
problems. 
And that's what I said. 

791
00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:03,500
He challenged me a little bit 
and said, you don't think that 

792
00:42:03,500 --> 00:42:07,200
there was any other group that 
was a said, hey there, I don't 

793
00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:09,100
think that. 
I don't think it's possible that

794
00:42:09,100 --> 00:42:14,700
there weren't some infiltrators 
from maybe left-wing groups or 

795
00:42:14,700 --> 00:42:17,700
that sort of thing. 
But it didn't even it didn't 

796
00:42:17,700 --> 00:42:21,000
even enter my mind at the time 
that there might be some other 

797
00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:27,400
elements may be government. 
Ants are embedded agents of of 

798
00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:31,000
any kind had, not just hadn't 
gone there. 

799
00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:35,600
Yet that came in, after I 
started looking at my my video, 

800
00:42:36,200 --> 00:42:39,700
it also came in because as you 
know where I live, I'm right 

801
00:42:39,700 --> 00:42:44,400
next to Fort Bragg and I have a 
lot of friends down here that 

802
00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:46,800
are in the Special Forces 
community. 

803
00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:51,200
And as I began to show some of 
them, my videos, they were like 

804
00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:55,000
going, what's that? 
And then they would describe for

805
00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:58,500
me the behaviors. 
And that sort of thing that 

806
00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:02,100
really kicked in the, the 
investigative juices and I 

807
00:43:02,107 --> 00:43:04,500
started asking questions and 
start going further and further 

808
00:43:04,500 --> 00:43:08,800
and further my February 24th 
article of 2021 switch happened.

809
00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:11,700
I was published, was it six or 
seven weeks after the event 

810
00:43:11,700 --> 00:43:15,000
itself? 
I actually had by then 

811
00:43:15,100 --> 00:43:17,700
identified. 
The fact that There were 

812
00:43:17,700 --> 00:43:21,400
elements from the US, Marshals 
embedded in the crowd as 

813
00:43:21,700 --> 00:43:27,100
plainclothes undercover 
elements, as well as a special 

814
00:43:27,100 --> 00:43:31,500
ops group out of Fort Belvoir, 
which just happens to be the 

815
00:43:31,600 --> 00:43:35,900
most elite and secretive signal 
intelligence group in all of the

816
00:43:35,900 --> 00:43:38,600
US Army and that's where they're
based. 

817
00:43:38,600 --> 00:43:40,200
And I learned that they were 
there. 

818
00:43:40,200 --> 00:43:43,300
Also embedded in the crowd that 
day and where did you learn? 

819
00:43:43,300 --> 00:43:46,500
That? 
That's one of those sources that

820
00:43:46,500 --> 00:43:47,700
you can't. 
About. 

821
00:43:47,700 --> 00:43:48,800
Okay. 
This is one of your sources 

822
00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:49,800
that's fair. 
Yeah. 

823
00:43:49,900 --> 00:43:52,600
All right. 
So and did you identify them in 

824
00:43:52,600 --> 00:43:54,000
your video when you were looking
at them as well? 

825
00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:56,000
You're like, okay, this is 
obviously, you know, I never 

826
00:43:56,000 --> 00:43:58,900
identified them in my video, 
although information. 

827
00:43:58,900 --> 00:44:01,700
You were guy although, in 
subsequent videos, I have 

828
00:44:01,700 --> 00:44:07,600
identified individuals that just
by, as you know, by their gate, 

829
00:44:07,600 --> 00:44:09,000
by their training, the way 
there. 

830
00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:11,400
Their heads are on a swivel. 
The way their eyes are moving 

831
00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:14,200
around the way, they carry 
themselves, their interactions, 

832
00:44:14,200 --> 00:44:16,300
the signals, the hand signals 
that sort of thing. 

833
00:44:16,300 --> 00:44:18,800
You knew that they Were they 
were elements of some 

834
00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:21,400
Professional Organization. 
Certainly when I say 

835
00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:24,200
professional, they everything 
about them. 

836
00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:26,900
You know, that was just screamed
grow. 

837
00:44:27,900 --> 00:44:30,300
Okay? 
Fair enough, any possibility 

838
00:44:30,300 --> 00:44:32,600
that these people were just 
veterans, who had a lot of 

839
00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:34,200
experience. 
We got a lot of people with 

840
00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:37,600
oef/oif type backgrounds. 
Could they have been people that

841
00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:40,700
are just were bodies that were 
also had done some things. 

842
00:44:40,700 --> 00:44:43,000
Other places you think or you 
think that their motivation was 

843
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:47,100
specific in? 
Well, I actually I actually gay 

844
00:44:47,300 --> 00:44:50,200
Gave them a lot of Grace, in my 
first articles about this, 

845
00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:56,400
because I also I but I genuinely
believe that they were sent to 

846
00:44:56,400 --> 00:45:02,700
be there in case, things got out
of hand so that they could bring

847
00:45:02,700 --> 00:45:05,700
an end to it or to take care of 
business as it were. 

848
00:45:06,200 --> 00:45:09,500
Because the level of 
professionalism of the Ops that 

849
00:45:09,500 --> 00:45:12,300
I know that were there, the spec
ops that, I know where there 

850
00:45:12,900 --> 00:45:16,700
were the kind of individuals 
that if, if if the Maga guys 

851
00:45:16,700 --> 00:45:23,500
pulled Old Firearms, it would 
have been over with and S what 

852
00:45:23,500 --> 00:45:27,100
I'm saying. 
And and so I reported that I 

853
00:45:27,100 --> 00:45:31,500
wrote that in published that on 
February 24th or 20 21 and it 

854
00:45:31,500 --> 00:45:37,500
was January 5th of 2022 that 
Newsweek came out with their 

855
00:45:37,500 --> 00:45:41,700
article with a big headline that
said, very specifically, special

856
00:45:41,700 --> 00:45:45,000
operative our special ops from 
the US Army with shoot to kill 

857
00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:48,200
orders were in the crowd. 
So they Firmed it 10 months 

858
00:45:48,200 --> 00:45:50,700
later and I think that was 
something they were talking 

859
00:45:50,700 --> 00:45:52,800
about how HRT had actually been 
somewhere in there. 

860
00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:57,300
The FBI's hostage rescue Tianjin
here under plain clothes or not,

861
00:45:57,300 --> 00:45:59,900
I actually don't know enough 
about what they did on that day.

862
00:46:00,100 --> 00:46:04,100
I know that there was a lot of 
standby groups that they had. 

863
00:46:04,100 --> 00:46:06,200
They had standby group stationed
all over. 

864
00:46:06,200 --> 00:46:09,600
But there also were elements 
already in the capital when the,

865
00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:13,800
when the crowds arrived and I 
actually captured the ATF 

866
00:46:14,300 --> 00:46:16,500
tactical units, coming up the 
stairs. 

867
00:46:17,200 --> 00:46:20,000
In the area where actually 
Babbitt was shot. 

868
00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:23,500
I've got that on video now. 
They either were called in. 

869
00:46:23,500 --> 00:46:26,900
I don't know how close that they
were waiting or that they were 

870
00:46:26,900 --> 00:46:30,800
positioned before deployment 
directly into the capital 

871
00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:35,600
building, but I actually 
captured on my own camera, their

872
00:46:35,600 --> 00:46:38,700
arrival on the scene and this 
was in clearly marked. 

873
00:46:38,700 --> 00:46:42,100
ATF police is what they're. 
They're, you know, they're on 

874
00:46:42,100 --> 00:46:47,000
their breastplates and and then 
immediately after that, I was 

875
00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:50,000
the Last person probably to see 
Ashley Babbitt, a lot less 

876
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:52,500
civilian. 
Anyway, and that's a whole 

877
00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:57,800
nother story, but I was in the 
lower level of the capital. 

878
00:46:58,100 --> 00:47:00,500
There were no protesters there 
at the South interest 

879
00:47:00,500 --> 00:47:03,300
whatsoever. 
And as I've told this story, 

880
00:47:03,300 --> 00:47:06,900
many times, I was just looking 
for a restroom, I could Bend I 

881
00:47:06,900 --> 00:47:10,300
had been at the Capitol since 9 
a.m. and it's approaching 3:00 

882
00:47:10,300 --> 00:47:15,900
at this point and I needed a 
facility a men's room. 

883
00:47:15,900 --> 00:47:18,300
And I asked the US Capitol 
Police Officer. 

884
00:47:18,300 --> 00:47:21,200
I said, answering it. 
Is there a restroom anywhere? 

885
00:47:21,200 --> 00:47:23,400
Public restroom in. 
She actually responded. 

886
00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:24,900
She goes. 
No, I don't usually work in this

887
00:47:24,900 --> 00:47:27,100
building. 
She said, but you're welcome to 

888
00:47:27,100 --> 00:47:30,900
go downstairs and I'm okay. 
So I went downstairs and was 

889
00:47:30,900 --> 00:47:35,400
wandering around by myself. 
There's nobody there at all and 

890
00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:37,600
I'm just looking, I'm wandering.
The Halls looking for a 

891
00:47:37,607 --> 00:47:38,700
restroom. 
Can't find it. 

892
00:47:38,700 --> 00:47:43,200
And all of a sudden this, this 
young very petite female, 

893
00:47:43,200 --> 00:47:47,400
Capital police officer grabs me 
by my right arm and she said, As

894
00:47:47,400 --> 00:47:50,200
Sir, can I safely lead you out 
of the building? 

895
00:47:50,200 --> 00:47:52,400
I look down. 
I mean literally had to look 

896
00:47:52,400 --> 00:47:57,100
down at her she's so short and I
said do I need to be safely? 

897
00:47:57,100 --> 00:47:58,800
Let out of the building. 
She said yes sir you do. 

898
00:47:58,800 --> 00:48:00,500
I said okay I didn't resist at 
all. 

899
00:48:00,800 --> 00:48:04,600
And so we started the long walk 
down this Hall towards the South

900
00:48:04,600 --> 00:48:07,400
and entrance exit door on the 
lower level. 

901
00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:11,100
And she asked me Kyle, this was 
the most bizarre thing in the 

902
00:48:11,100 --> 00:48:13,800
world. 
She asked me three times sir. 

903
00:48:14,200 --> 00:48:18,400
Do you feel safe right now? 
And I said, yeah, I'm fine, I 

904
00:48:18,400 --> 00:48:21,900
hurt her, hands were trembling, 
by the way, the whole time, 

905
00:48:21,900 --> 00:48:25,700
she's trembling on my arm, and 
then we got a little closer to 

906
00:48:25,700 --> 00:48:27,100
the door. 
And she said, sir, do you feel 

907
00:48:27,100 --> 00:48:29,400
safe right now? 
I said, yeah, I'm good. 

908
00:48:29,500 --> 00:48:33,700
So we're about now 15 or 20 feet
from the door itself. 

909
00:48:34,200 --> 00:48:38,100
And she says, again sir, do you 
feel safe right now? 

910
00:48:38,100 --> 00:48:42,100
And I stopped in my tracks and I
said I'm fine. 

911
00:48:42,100 --> 00:48:45,000
Do you feel safe right now? 
She said, no, I don't. 

912
00:48:46,400 --> 00:48:51,100
And then I heard the commotion 
to my left and I looked down and

913
00:48:51,100 --> 00:48:54,500
FBI tactical unit and their 
Medics are working on. 

914
00:48:54,500 --> 00:48:57,100
Who I learned later was Ashley 
Babbitt because they had moved 

915
00:48:57,100 --> 00:49:00,500
carried her downstairs away from
where the crowds were and they 

916
00:49:00,500 --> 00:49:02,300
had her position at that 
doorway. 

917
00:49:02,800 --> 00:49:07,200
And so, I am looking down at her
but I don't know. 

918
00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:13,200
It's a her all I see is jeans 
shoes, the the the chest was 

919
00:49:13,200 --> 00:49:16,200
covered in blood and then the 
hands of the guys working on her

920
00:49:17,100 --> 00:49:22,500
obscured that it was a female 
and I looked back over the 

921
00:49:22,500 --> 00:49:25,400
capitol police officer. 
And I said, is he shot? 

922
00:49:25,400 --> 00:49:28,000
She says, yes he is. 
I said who shot him. 

923
00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:30,300
She said we did. 
I said why'd you shooting? 

924
00:49:30,400 --> 00:49:35,900
She said he pulled a gun on us. 
Well fog of war, the Curt Fusion

925
00:49:35,900 --> 00:49:39,000
on their radio. 
In fact I heard I actually on my

926
00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:42,700
camera I can hear the radio 
chatter calling for triage and 

927
00:49:42,700 --> 00:49:44,700
all these other things are it 
was crazy. 

928
00:49:44,700 --> 00:49:48,900
You know, when this happened and
she didn't know she had no idea 

929
00:49:48,900 --> 00:49:51,100
what had happened. 
She thought it was a guy too. 

930
00:49:51,300 --> 00:49:54,700
Or for that matter. 
And right then is we're having 

931
00:49:54,700 --> 00:49:57,700
this conversation, the EMT unit 
arrived. 

932
00:49:57,800 --> 00:49:59,400
They bust through the door with 
the journey. 

933
00:49:59,400 --> 00:50:01,000
We had to stand back and let 
them in. 

934
00:50:01,300 --> 00:50:04,500
And then as soon as they got in,
then she takes me to the door. 

935
00:50:04,500 --> 00:50:07,000
And she said, please be safe. 
And I said, you know, you too 

936
00:50:07,400 --> 00:50:10,500
well you know what goes up must 
come down, what comes in must 

937
00:50:10,500 --> 00:50:13,000
come out. 
So obviously what I saw and I 

938
00:50:13,000 --> 00:50:16,100
saw the gurney come in, I walked
down or the ramp and then came 

939
00:50:16,100 --> 00:50:20,300
back around and post it up right
there, at that door, 30 seconds 

940
00:50:20,300 --> 00:50:22,900
later the door. 
Kick open, 30 seconds, after 

941
00:50:22,900 --> 00:50:26,100
that, the gurney comes out, full
tactical units. 

942
00:50:26,100 --> 00:50:30,100
She's got, you know, rifles and 
they're and they're working on 

943
00:50:30,100 --> 00:50:33,700
her feverishly and then I, I'm 
so close. 

944
00:50:33,700 --> 00:50:37,500
I just start following the 
gurney down the ramp, and then 

945
00:50:37,700 --> 00:50:42,600
after we got past, I think the 
second or third support column, 

946
00:50:42,600 --> 00:50:45,700
I saw her bare chest and I went 
and you can hear me on my own 

947
00:50:45,700 --> 00:50:47,900
camera. 
Go, holy shit, it's a woman. 

948
00:50:49,500 --> 00:50:53,000
and, Because you don't, you 
don't, you don't expect that in 

949
00:50:53,000 --> 00:50:55,200
battle, right? 
But surprising, especially with 

950
00:50:55,200 --> 00:50:56,700
you, make sure you just been 
given, right? 

951
00:50:56,900 --> 00:51:00,000
Yeah. 
So, I followed with the rest of 

952
00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:03,200
the way till they disappeared 
off into the vehicles that were 

953
00:51:03,200 --> 00:51:05,900
parked there. 
I didn't even know at the time 

954
00:51:05,900 --> 00:51:09,100
that I was actually in the only 
surviving police barricade that 

955
00:51:09,100 --> 00:51:12,100
had not been breached that the 
South entrance, they still had 

956
00:51:12,100 --> 00:51:15,400
the bike rack up, and I was the 
only civilian standing inside 

957
00:51:15,400 --> 00:51:17,900
that barricade. 
There are Capitol Police and 

958
00:51:17,900 --> 00:51:20,600
metropolitan police officers. 
Walking past me, not saying a 

959
00:51:20,607 --> 00:51:25,000
word to Me because it was 
obvious that I was acting like a

960
00:51:25,008 --> 00:51:27,900
professional in my own behavior 
and I was no threat at all. 

961
00:51:28,400 --> 00:51:32,100
So they allowed me to capture 
this and as soon as I did, I 

962
00:51:32,100 --> 00:51:36,300
walked out, I remove the 
barricade and exited and that 

963
00:51:36,300 --> 00:51:40,100
was the end of my time in the 
capital itself, just for 

964
00:51:40,100 --> 00:51:42,400
people's kind of mental 
pictures, kind of a theater of 

965
00:51:42,400 --> 00:51:44,500
the Mind piece of it. 
What are you dressed? 

966
00:51:44,500 --> 00:51:46,700
Like, and what is your camera 
rig look? 

967
00:51:46,700 --> 00:51:49,300
Like, it sounds like you're not 
just filming on an iPhone which 

968
00:51:49,300 --> 00:51:52,300
is maybe there were. 
No, I was Was I actually said, I

969
00:51:52,300 --> 00:51:57,000
had the, you know, I had the 
iPhone and I had the, you know, 

970
00:51:57,000 --> 00:52:00,900
the little Gizmo thing that you 
would they what are those things

971
00:52:00,900 --> 00:52:03,100
called him on it? 
What's that? 

972
00:52:03,300 --> 00:52:04,500
They like a gamble? 
Or one of the. 

973
00:52:04,500 --> 00:52:07,000
Yeah. 
So, you know, I had that and and

974
00:52:07,000 --> 00:52:09,800
I had, you know, spare battery 
pack and everything. 

975
00:52:09,800 --> 00:52:14,500
And so my, even my backpack, or 
my tripod that I had, my 

976
00:52:14,500 --> 00:52:17,800
backpack was set up for the 
camera for the cell phone. 

977
00:52:18,600 --> 00:52:22,300
I didn't didn't want to carry a 
Lot of extra I didn't just I 

978
00:52:22,300 --> 00:52:25,400
just didn't expect this. 
I mean, obviously if I had known

979
00:52:25,400 --> 00:52:28,400
what was going to happen, I had 
to come prepared for it. 

980
00:52:28,400 --> 00:52:33,200
I did this was the way that they
developed was beyond my 

981
00:52:33,700 --> 00:52:37,100
comprehension and expectations. 
I'm sure I think that's the case

982
00:52:37,100 --> 00:52:38,600
for a lot of people. 
And what about clothing-wise 

983
00:52:38,600 --> 00:52:40,700
what were you wearing? 
If you was wearing a black 

984
00:52:40,700 --> 00:52:45,800
jacket, I had a kind of a light 
red semi almost pink. 

985
00:52:46,100 --> 00:52:54,100
Yorktown had on Yorktown 
Virginia and I had jeans boots 

986
00:52:54,400 --> 00:52:58,700
and that was it. 
Okay, but not obviously one side

987
00:52:58,700 --> 00:53:00,800
or another pic, you're not, 
you're not wearing team colors 

988
00:53:00,800 --> 00:53:02,600
out there. 
You don't have a flag sticking 

989
00:53:02,600 --> 00:53:05,600
out and they let you when you 
were behind that police line and

990
00:53:05,600 --> 00:53:08,200
you said people were kind of low
and you go where their people on

991
00:53:08,207 --> 00:53:11,000
the other side of the police 
line that we're still lined up 

992
00:53:11,000 --> 00:53:13,500
or as it Capulet, there were, 
there were protesters on the 

993
00:53:13,500 --> 00:53:15,700
other side of the police line. 
Okay. 

994
00:53:15,700 --> 00:53:18,300
So you're inside sort of the 
safe zone for the police, which 

995
00:53:18,300 --> 00:53:21,800
is why they're running around 
behind you and okay. 

996
00:53:22,000 --> 00:53:25,500
And there was no battle going on
on that side either the the 

997
00:53:25,500 --> 00:53:28,800
battle at because this was, she 
came out of the building of the 

998
00:53:28,800 --> 00:53:30,600
South Side. 
She was carried out of the 

999
00:53:30,600 --> 00:53:34,400
building and by the way, on the 
camera on my camera you can hear

1000
00:53:34,400 --> 00:53:37,000
me. 
Say, you know, holy shit. 

1001
00:53:37,000 --> 00:53:39,900
It's a female. 
She's not going to make it. 

1002
00:53:40,400 --> 00:53:43,100
Yeah, I knew I saw her in her 
eyes. 

1003
00:53:43,100 --> 00:53:46,100
I'd seen death before. 
I knew that she was gone at that

1004
00:53:46,100 --> 00:53:49,800
moment. 
And and that video has been used

1005
00:53:49,800 --> 00:53:53,100
in documentaries and HBO 
documentary New York Times new 

1006
00:53:53,100 --> 00:53:58,200
Services all over the world and 
that was my first time to become

1007
00:53:58,700 --> 00:54:04,200
a photojournalist which I'm not 
but I became ones, they got a 

1008
00:54:04,200 --> 00:54:06,100
credit you for it, right? 
And yeah. 

1009
00:54:06,600 --> 00:54:09,000
And and so that's that's an 
interesting kind of move for me.

1010
00:54:09,000 --> 00:54:11,100
So that moves you into the 
journalists category your 

1011
00:54:11,100 --> 00:54:13,100
they're legitimately captioning 
news. 

1012
00:54:13,100 --> 00:54:16,200
In real time, it's being used by
what they would assume are 

1013
00:54:16,500 --> 00:54:19,500
legitimate mainstream news 
sources, right? 

1014
00:54:19,800 --> 00:54:22,600
I gave it, I gave it to To CBS 
that night. 

1015
00:54:23,100 --> 00:54:24,900
They had they were running that 
video that night. 

1016
00:54:25,000 --> 00:54:26,700
Yeah, I was there pay involved 
in that at all, you know. 

1017
00:54:27,600 --> 00:54:28,400
Okay. 
That's good. 

1018
00:54:28,600 --> 00:54:32,200
So, you're now paid as a 
photojournalist in this realm 

1019
00:54:32,800 --> 00:54:37,000
and at some point after CBS is 
using it in the others, the 

1020
00:54:37,008 --> 00:54:38,800
federal authorities are going to
want to see this as well. 

1021
00:54:38,800 --> 00:54:41,900
I imagined was that what brought
them to contact you or was there

1022
00:54:41,900 --> 00:54:43,200
something else that led them to 
your door? 

1023
00:54:43,800 --> 00:54:48,100
No, it's a bit of a journey 
getting there. 

1024
00:54:48,600 --> 00:54:51,000
Okay, as well because I was not 
contacted. 

1025
00:54:51,100 --> 00:54:55,500
By them until August. 
So, 2926 till August of before 

1026
00:54:55,500 --> 00:55:02,000
ever heard from them. 
And I In full disclosure, I went

1027
00:55:02,000 --> 00:55:05,500
into hiding for five days after 
January 6, because I was not 

1028
00:55:05,500 --> 00:55:09,300
going to come out until I had my
story written when I get my 

1029
00:55:09,300 --> 00:55:12,200
videos processed. 
When I know what I think I saw, 

1030
00:55:12,200 --> 00:55:15,400
when I had my story published, I
was going to come out. 

1031
00:55:15,700 --> 00:55:21,200
I actually went and went into 
hiding at guy, two, different 

1032
00:55:21,200 --> 00:55:25,500
Special Forces, operatives guys,
here in this area, and they 

1033
00:55:25,500 --> 00:55:27,200
said, oh yeah, come on, you'll 
be fine with us. 

1034
00:55:27,700 --> 00:55:30,800
And so that was that Is my goal.
I got guys like that, too. 

1035
00:55:30,900 --> 00:55:33,000
They're good people to have in 
your corner, you know, turn the 

1036
00:55:33,000 --> 00:55:38,500
phone off and just just stayed 
secluded until I've finished my 

1037
00:55:38,500 --> 00:55:41,800
task. 
Then I came out and phones are 

1038
00:55:41,808 --> 00:55:44,900
back on. 
Back on the internet, I am 

1039
00:55:44,900 --> 00:55:47,200
traveling again because I was 
doing, I was trapped during the 

1040
00:55:47,207 --> 00:55:52,300
lockdowns, I toured 28 different
states meeting with all of my 

1041
00:55:52,500 --> 00:55:54,000
the followers, my blog, that 
sort of thing. 

1042
00:55:54,000 --> 00:55:55,800
So I was doing meetups all over 
the country. 

1043
00:55:56,500 --> 00:56:00,200
And so I got back on the road 
against I just Zoomed my normal 

1044
00:56:00,200 --> 00:56:04,200
activities, obviously very 
focused on what was happening in

1045
00:56:04,200 --> 00:56:07,000
the news at the time. 
As you can imagine, I saw the 

1046
00:56:07,000 --> 00:56:09,900
arrest that we're taking place. 
I actually began the here of 

1047
00:56:09,900 --> 00:56:11,900
independent journalists that 
were being contacted and 

1048
00:56:11,900 --> 00:56:15,300
arrested or at least the very 
least interviewed by the FBI. 

1049
00:56:15,300 --> 00:56:19,700
So I at I'm using my credit 
cards everywhere, I went for 

1050
00:56:20,000 --> 00:56:24,100
hotels food, and otherwise other
expenses, so I'm not hiding from

1051
00:56:24,100 --> 00:56:26,000
anybody. 
So I just said, anticipated it 

1052
00:56:26,000 --> 00:56:28,900
someplace somewhere sometime 
whether I was in Texas, 

1053
00:56:28,900 --> 00:56:33,000
Oklahoma, Oklahoma or Wisconsin 
that at some place they were 

1054
00:56:33,000 --> 00:56:37,200
going to pop up one day and and 
say, hey we want to talk to you 

1055
00:56:37,200 --> 00:56:41,400
or hey, you're coming with us. 
Whichever the case may be and it

1056
00:56:41,408 --> 00:56:44,100
didn't it didn't happen for a 
long time. 

1057
00:56:44,700 --> 00:56:46,800
What's that? 
It's enough for a long time. 

1058
00:56:47,000 --> 00:56:53,600
Yeah. 
So I ironically had a meeting, 

1059
00:56:53,700 --> 00:56:58,900
one of my one of my meetups for 
my blog followers scheduled just

1060
00:56:59,100 --> 00:57:06,800
Outside of DC in a suburb 
Virginia suburb DC on a think, 

1061
00:57:06,800 --> 00:57:12,900
it was a Friday evening and 
Thursday morning before that 

1062
00:57:12,900 --> 00:57:16,000
meeting. 
I get a phone call 10:00 in the 

1063
00:57:16,008 --> 00:57:17,800
morning. 
Hello. 

1064
00:57:19,400 --> 00:57:20,800
The Steve Baker. 
Yes it is. 

1065
00:57:20,900 --> 00:57:25,600
Hi, I'm special agent. 
Das with the FBI and my first 

1066
00:57:25,600 --> 00:57:30,600
response was well what took you 
so long and he chuckled he said 

1067
00:57:30,600 --> 00:57:32,900
well you know we've had a lot to
do we had a lot of things said 

1068
00:57:32,900 --> 00:57:36,000
okay I was here so he said hey 
look I see that you're going to 

1069
00:57:36,000 --> 00:57:39,000
be and I think it was resting. 
I said I see you're going to be 

1070
00:57:39,008 --> 00:57:41,100
in rest and tomorrow night and 
it just wondering if you were 

1071
00:57:41,100 --> 00:57:42,900
going to be there earlier in the
day and maybe you'd have a 

1072
00:57:42,900 --> 00:57:45,400
couple hours where you could sit
down and talk to a couple of our

1073
00:57:45,400 --> 00:57:48,100
guys, and you know, tell us 
about what you, you saw there. 

1074
00:57:48,400 --> 00:57:49,600
In January 6, that sort of 
thing. 

1075
00:57:49,600 --> 00:57:52,500
I said, I said, yeah, actually, 
I would probably have a couple 

1076
00:57:52,500 --> 00:57:54,600
of hours. 
Only problem is is my attorney, 

1077
00:57:54,600 --> 00:57:55,700
won't be able to be there 
anyway. 

1078
00:57:55,800 --> 00:57:58,400
Oh, oh, okay, oh yeah, yeah, 
well, we can, we can schedule 

1079
00:57:58,400 --> 00:58:00,500
that for another time when your 
attorney is available. 

1080
00:58:01,000 --> 00:58:02,800
And I said, okay, well, let's, 
let's do that. 

1081
00:58:02,800 --> 00:58:04,800
I said, why don't you go and 
give me your number and I'll 

1082
00:58:04,800 --> 00:58:07,400
have him contact you. 
And, so, from that point 

1083
00:58:07,400 --> 00:58:09,900
forward, I never spoke to them 
again, except through my 

1084
00:58:09,900 --> 00:58:14,500
attorney. 
And when I hit right there. 

1085
00:58:14,700 --> 00:58:17,200
Yeah, I'm not ladies and 
gentlemen. 

1086
00:58:17,200 --> 00:58:20,200
That is how you do it. 
That's the right answer. 

1087
00:58:20,200 --> 00:58:23,000
You can be polite and insist on 
an attorney. 

1088
00:58:23,400 --> 00:58:25,100
There is no upside to doing this
on your own. 

1089
00:58:25,100 --> 00:58:27,300
And a lot of people don't do 
that, I've been talking to a lot

1090
00:58:27,300 --> 00:58:29,900
of people that have not done 
that and they all have the plan 

1091
00:58:29,900 --> 00:58:31,700
in their head if that's the 
plan. 

1092
00:58:31,700 --> 00:58:33,400
But that's a great plan, you 
executed. 

1093
00:58:33,500 --> 00:58:34,900
And the way you said it was 
perfect. 

1094
00:58:34,900 --> 00:58:36,700
So it's light and it's 
professional. 

1095
00:58:36,700 --> 00:58:38,300
And it tells them exactly what 
they need to know that you're 

1096
00:58:38,300 --> 00:58:40,200
represented. 
And they need to go through them

1097
00:58:40,300 --> 00:58:42,200
and that should tell them the 
way that they perceive from that

1098
00:58:42,200 --> 00:58:44,000
on out. 
So well, oiled up and build up. 

1099
00:58:44,000 --> 00:58:46,600
And let me and let me also say, 
and I've advised this of other 

1100
00:58:46,600 --> 00:58:50,000
people as well, even if you 
don't have an attorney yet that 

1101
00:58:50,000 --> 00:58:52,900
still the answer and then you 
then your very next call is to 

1102
00:58:53,200 --> 00:58:54,100
find her. 
Yeah. 

1103
00:58:54,100 --> 00:58:56,000
That whether you have an 
attorney or not is irrelevant to

1104
00:58:56,000 --> 00:58:58,900
the answer is that you need to 
have that attorney stated that 

1105
00:58:58,900 --> 00:59:01,000
you're going to have that person
and then go find them. 

1106
00:59:01,100 --> 00:59:03,200
You don't have to have that 
attorney that's your future 

1107
00:59:03,200 --> 00:59:04,800
turning. 
That's your your potential 

1108
00:59:04,800 --> 00:59:08,000
attorney that will be there but 
well done on that for you that 

1109
00:59:08,000 --> 00:59:09,700
is the right answer and 
unfortunately a lot of people 

1110
00:59:09,700 --> 00:59:13,500
got themselves into a ton of hot
water because not do exactly 

1111
00:59:13,500 --> 00:59:18,200
what you just did. 
Well I had I had every intention

1112
00:59:18,400 --> 00:59:22,600
Of being cooperative. 
I was not going to although I 

1113
00:59:22,600 --> 00:59:31,200
had advice and Stern advice and 
warnings from multiple friends 

1114
00:59:31,200 --> 00:59:36,300
and followers and blog followers
that have you know 30 40 years 

1115
00:59:36,300 --> 00:59:39,100
in law enforcement, every one of
them saying do not do the 

1116
00:59:39,100 --> 00:59:41,800
interview, do not, you don't 
have to, don't do it, don't do 

1117
00:59:41,800 --> 00:59:42,700
it. 
I'm telling you there's no 

1118
00:59:42,900 --> 00:59:47,100
there's no upside, don't do it. 
I have one problem though. 

1119
00:59:47,700 --> 00:59:51,800
I'm is just as curious about 
what they were doing, is they 

1120
00:59:51,800 --> 00:59:54,900
were about what I was doing. 
And as always, the same problem,

1121
00:59:54,900 --> 00:59:55,900
by the way, this is the same 
thing. 

1122
00:59:55,900 --> 00:59:58,500
For guys who deal drugs, they 
have the same curiosity, what do

1123
00:59:58,500 --> 01:00:01,200
they know about me? 
Well, not hear us and he was 

1124
01:00:01,200 --> 01:00:04,900
from a journalistic standpoint, 
and in fact, when the interview 

1125
01:00:05,300 --> 01:00:09,200
ultimately finally happened, I 
told as the first thing I told 

1126
01:00:09,200 --> 01:00:12,100
him, I said the oh, and I looked
at my attorney I said this guy 

1127
01:00:12,100 --> 01:00:14,300
right here told me not to do 
this. 

1128
01:00:14,900 --> 01:00:17,100
Okay. 
I am here for one reason. 

1129
01:00:17,100 --> 01:00:19,500
One reason only, I said I'm 
going to ask you as many 

1130
01:00:19,500 --> 01:00:21,900
questions as you ask me, let's 
rock. 

1131
01:00:22,700 --> 01:00:27,200
And now I was announcing now we 
have to now we have to get to, 

1132
01:00:27,400 --> 01:00:29,100
we have to go through the 
Journey a little bit. 

1133
01:00:29,100 --> 01:00:32,800
How we got there because 
obviously my attorney did 

1134
01:00:32,800 --> 01:00:35,500
contact them. 
We set up a voluntary 

1135
01:00:35,500 --> 01:00:38,500
Cooperative time, you know, 
mutually agreed, upon date. 

1136
01:00:38,500 --> 01:00:42,300
That worked in our schedules for
me to go down to the Raleigh 

1137
01:00:42,300 --> 01:00:45,700
area field office here. 
The FBI. 

1138
01:00:46,200 --> 01:00:49,900
And when we arrived, we got 
there about 15 minutes early. 

1139
01:00:50,400 --> 01:00:54,300
It was agent daus, and agent 
noise that met us at the door 

1140
01:00:54,300 --> 01:00:56,700
after we went through the 
security gates and all of that, 

1141
01:00:56,900 --> 01:01:01,500
and immediately after we walk in
the door, they said, hey guys, 

1142
01:01:02,000 --> 01:01:04,800
thanks for coming. 
Look, we may have a problem. 

1143
01:01:04,800 --> 01:01:07,000
We may not be able to do this 
interview today. 

1144
01:01:08,500 --> 01:01:11,200
If guys, just go ahead and sit 
here in the lobby, we'll be back

1145
01:01:11,200 --> 01:01:14,500
in about, we'll be back in about
5 or 10 minutes and let you 

1146
01:01:14,500 --> 01:01:15,900
know. 
No, but something has come up 

1147
01:01:15,900 --> 01:01:19,200
and we may have to reschedule. 
So we sat down, they disappeared

1148
01:01:19,200 --> 01:01:22,000
behind the another, you know, 
security door in the back. 

1149
01:01:22,200 --> 01:01:24,900
And I looked at my attorney and 
I go, man, what's going on? 

1150
01:01:24,900 --> 01:01:26,800
Is I'm the only thing I think I 
could think of man. 

1151
01:01:26,800 --> 01:01:28,400
There's been something happened 
today. 

1152
01:01:28,400 --> 01:01:31,500
Well, I mean, we're is it 
another 9/11 going on? 

1153
01:01:31,500 --> 01:01:33,200
Is there another tack going 
somewhere? 

1154
01:01:33,600 --> 01:01:37,300
What's going on? 
And he goes, no, this is about 

1155
01:01:37,300 --> 01:01:38,800
you. 
This is my attorney said, I went

1156
01:01:38,800 --> 01:01:41,400
what he goes. 
Oh yeah, he said this is, this 

1157
01:01:41,400 --> 01:01:44,000
is about you. 
And I so he talking about, he 

1158
01:01:44,000 --> 01:01:47,000
said, I said they may just come 
through that door and arrest you

1159
01:01:47,000 --> 01:01:51,200
right now and I went yeah. 
How did you get that from what 

1160
01:01:51,200 --> 01:01:54,200
they were saying? 
And that were eminently friendly

1161
01:01:54,200 --> 01:01:56,900
and there was nothing in their 
demeanor, their body language 

1162
01:01:56,900 --> 01:01:58,500
that gave away anything like 
that. 

1163
01:01:59,000 --> 01:02:01,500
What ended up taking them about 
a half hour before they came 

1164
01:02:01,500 --> 01:02:04,900
back through the locked doors. 
And when they came out her, hey 

1165
01:02:04,900 --> 01:02:07,300
guys. 
We're so sorry, here's the deal.

1166
01:02:07,700 --> 01:02:10,600
We got a call from Washington. 
They knew that your interview 

1167
01:02:10,600 --> 01:02:14,600
was coming up today but because 
of your status as a journalist 

1168
01:02:14,800 --> 01:02:19,300
We have to get permission in 
order to do this questioning. 

1169
01:02:19,300 --> 01:02:22,700
We can't question a member of 
the press without permission 

1170
01:02:22,700 --> 01:02:27,100
from the US attorney's office. 
And I'm like, really, I didn't 

1171
01:02:27,100 --> 01:02:28,700
know that, that law existed. 
Sure enough. 

1172
01:02:28,700 --> 01:02:32,700
I looked it up as soon as I got 
home and there's a doj policy 

1173
01:02:32,700 --> 01:02:36,100
that they have to do that. 
So I think, yeah, it's in the 

1174
01:02:36,100 --> 01:02:41,600
u.s. code and and that's exactly
the case the FBI or any other 

1175
01:02:41,600 --> 01:02:44,100
Federal investigative unit 
cannot interview, a member of 

1176
01:02:44,107 --> 01:02:47,800
the press with Express written 
permission from the US Attorney 

1177
01:02:47,800 --> 01:02:51,300
General's office itself. 
So it took a little bit over a 

1178
01:02:51,300 --> 01:02:55,100
month before that came down, we 
finally did the interview in 

1179
01:02:55,100 --> 01:02:59,600
October, we it was rescheduled, 
we negotiate my attorney, a 

1180
01:02:59,600 --> 01:03:04,400
don't negotiated a proper 
agreement from them that at no 

1181
01:03:04,400 --> 01:03:06,900
time. 
Under any circumstances. 

1182
01:03:06,900 --> 01:03:09,900
Could anything that I said in 
that interview be used against 

1183
01:03:09,900 --> 01:03:12,300
me in court? 
Should they take me? 

1184
01:03:12,800 --> 01:03:14,500
Should they decide to file 
charges against me? 

1185
01:03:14,700 --> 01:03:17,300
Unless I perjured myself. 
Well I had nothing to hide and 

1186
01:03:17,300 --> 01:03:20,000
nothing to perjure myself about.
So I said, yeah, let's do it. 

1187
01:03:20,400 --> 01:03:24,000
And the only thing that really 
changed from the negotiated 

1188
01:03:24,000 --> 01:03:30,800
first abandoned interview was 
that they had given me 

1189
01:03:30,800 --> 01:03:35,400
permission to record the 
interview myself in the first 

1190
01:03:35,400 --> 01:03:38,000
one. 
The second one as stated in the 

1191
01:03:38,000 --> 01:03:40,200
proper agreement was that I 
could not record it. 

1192
01:03:40,700 --> 01:03:43,200
Yeah thanks again. 
The first thing that I did after

1193
01:03:43,200 --> 01:03:46,600
telling them that I was Or to 
ask them as many questions as 

1194
01:03:47,000 --> 01:03:49,900
they were going to ask me. 
And I said, even though I'd 

1195
01:03:49,900 --> 01:03:54,100
already signed the agreement, I 
want to record this meeting and 

1196
01:03:54,100 --> 01:03:55,600
we got off to a bad start, 
right? 

1197
01:03:55,600 --> 01:03:59,800
Then they were not happy with 
the fact that I wanted to record

1198
01:03:59,800 --> 01:04:01,300
it. 
And we got into a pretty heated 

1199
01:04:01,300 --> 01:04:04,400
debate about it. 
And finally, my attorney said he

1200
01:04:04,400 --> 01:04:06,300
said, Steve have you changed 
your mind? 

1201
01:04:06,300 --> 01:04:08,700
Do you are? 
If you are if you're not allowed

1202
01:04:08,700 --> 01:04:12,600
to record this, or are you 
wanting to abandon this session?

1203
01:04:12,600 --> 01:04:16,600
And I said, no, I said, I Oh, I 
just want it on the record, you 

1204
01:04:16,600 --> 01:04:20,300
know, the cameras were embedded 
in the wall up, you know, Bob 

1205
01:04:20,300 --> 01:04:22,700
there and and of course that 
they were making the point. 

1206
01:04:22,700 --> 01:04:26,000
It's being recorded. 
I said, yeah, but it may be 

1207
01:04:26,000 --> 01:04:28,300
being recorded but I have no 
assurance that you what you're 

1208
01:04:28,300 --> 01:04:32,100
going to do with that recording.
And I said I don't understand 

1209
01:04:32,100 --> 01:04:34,300
and they gave the line about, 
you know we do investigative 

1210
01:04:34,300 --> 01:04:36,900
where we do undercover work and 
we can't have our images, you 

1211
01:04:36,900 --> 01:04:39,400
know, and we know you being a 
journalist, you plan on using 

1212
01:04:39,400 --> 01:04:40,700
this. 
And I said, no. 

1213
01:04:40,800 --> 01:04:42,700
I said I will sign an agreement 
with you. 

1214
01:04:42,700 --> 01:04:46,000
I said, I said right? 
Out on your notepad right there.

1215
01:04:46,200 --> 01:04:49,100
I will, I will sign it right 
here that I will not use this 

1216
01:04:49,100 --> 01:04:53,200
video recording and a story. 
It will not be published and it 

1217
01:04:53,200 --> 01:04:56,900
will only be for my backup. 
And should I ever go to trial 

1218
01:04:56,900 --> 01:04:59,800
over this thing? 
And he said, they said, no, we 

1219
01:04:59,800 --> 01:05:02,100
won't do it either. 
It's either no recording or. 

1220
01:05:02,100 --> 01:05:05,900
No, no interviewed. 
And, and I said, all right, I 

1221
01:05:05,900 --> 01:05:07,400
said, well, let's go, let's do 
this thing. 

1222
01:05:08,000 --> 01:05:09,700
All right, that's a good place. 
We're gonna take a quick, pause 

1223
01:05:09,700 --> 01:05:11,500
here. 
And we're going to regroup for 

1224
01:05:11,500 --> 01:05:12,800
one second. 
Then we're going to hear about 

1225
01:05:12,800 --> 01:05:15,000
what was in this interview, 
because I'm now Now, very 

1226
01:05:15,000 --> 01:05:17,700
interested in how an adversarial
interview guys started off. 

1227
01:05:17,700 --> 01:05:21,300
Thanks for listening to the Kyle
serif and show be sure to follow

1228
01:05:21,300 --> 01:05:24,400
him on Twitter and Truth at Kyle
seraphin. 

1229
01:05:14,600 --> 01:05:17,000
Now, very interested in how an 
adversarial interview guys 

1230
01:05:17,000 --> 01:05:19,200
started off. 
Thanks for listening to the Kyle

1231
01:05:19,200 --> 01:05:23,600
serif and show be sure to follow
him on Twitter and Truth at Kyle

1232
01:05:23,600 --> 01:05:24,400
seraphin.