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agent Kyle Seraf. Hello my friends, and welcome to
the Kyle Seraphin Show. Today is Thursday, it's August
the 3rd and we have an interview for you today with Tiffany
Justice of Moms for Liberty. We'll get into that in just one
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You're about to hear from our friend Tiffany Justice, who is
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join us in the chat here at some point.
I imagine this is a taped interview we did a couple days
ago, and I am sharing it here on this Thursday because it is
still always relevant to hear what these voices are.
Moms are the best. So without any further ado, here
is Tiffany Justice of Moms for Liberty.
OK, And we are back with the Kyle Seraphin Show guest series.
Who do we have? But Tiffany Justice, who has
probably the best name for public life in the the arena
that she's chosen to compete? It is such a strong name.
Did you marry into that name, by the way?
I did. It's my married name.
Fantastic work by the way on that one then.
So well done. I we're going to hear about what
the the previous Was it an upgrade Stronger standing work.
All right. So Tiffany Justice is a wife, a
mother, a former member of a school board.
She knows a little bit about that.
She's the cofounder of Moms for Liberty.
Many of you may have heard about them in the news.
Apparently they are a pro Hitler group.
If you were to listen to the mainstream leftist media talking
points, we're going to debunk that here today.
And she's also the host of her own podcast, the Joyful Warrior
podcast. And I like that you have the
hashtag, A war mom. What is a War Mom?
One day I was speaking to a friend of mine who's a lawyer.
He's on our Advisory Board. His name is Jeff Childers, and
we were looking at what was happening in Florida.
We had rogue school boards that were fighting against the
governor, and he had just come off of of a kind of a national
tour of speaking to people. And he said, Tiffany, I need to
talk to you. I said okay.
And he said you need to go tell all of America that they need to
be war moms. And I was like, Jeff, what do
you, what do you mean, a worm? He said.
Well, it's not, you know, like physical war and war moms, he
said. But you guys are war moms now.
You need to understand that. And that was very, very early in
2020. So war mom means that we're in
the middle of a cultural revolution in the United States
of America, and our children are on the front lines in schools.
And so we need to fight like we are at war, because we are.
That's a fantastic explanation. This is Jeff Childress of Coffee
and COVID. Is that right?
Yes, Jeff Childress of Coffee and COVID.
Yeah, he's fantastic. And he did a bunch of
fundraising for my buddies. They came through with their
multiplier army as you know, they do some awesome work and I
think they bumped up our our Gibson go total by $150,000 or
something crazy in a couple days.
Yeah, he's a remarkable man. He he won the first case in the
United States that said that masks were unconstitutional and
then did some tremendous work in Florida protecting police
officers and others who were possibly facing vaccine
mandates. So, really amazing, man.
Yeah, Brilliant. And I'm glad you have him on the
board. OK, let's start back at the
beginning. Let's go back.
You got married. How long have you been married?
And how long ago did you assume this brilliant new name?
So I met my husband over 20 years ago, but we have been
married. It'll be 20 years this coming
year and we have four children, 18/15/13 and 11/1 girl and three
boys. So your husband must have lived
a much more virtuous life at a younger age than I did.
I have the inverse of that. I have 3 girls, my third is
about to be born in a couple weeks, and one boy and I just
keep telling my wife I'm paying for sins.
One of the things I did is I actually bragged to my wife that
we were going to have sons before we got married, and so we
had daughters right in a robe. That's how that works.
Of course. And girls love their dads so
much. It's such a wonderful, special
relationship to have a nice relationship with your dad.
So my girls are awesome and they're they were sitting at the
table this morning and they said dad Bodhi, that's my youngest
cannot have babies like mom because mom's very pregnant
right now. She's a couple weeks out and but
we are going to she actually my 6 year old whispered to her
sister and said but we're going to have babies one day which
made me just crack up. I mean, there's nothing more
special than them understanding at such an early age count,
contrary to what they would teach him in schools, I imagine.
It's true. I mean, the idea of being a
mother and being pregnant I think has been given such a bad
rap by feminists. But the truth is, I think they
wanted us to think that somehow becoming a mom took away some
power that you have, but it only multiplies your passion for your
your country and the future of your country and and certainly
family. So I loved being pregnant.
It wasn't always easy, but I loved every minute of it and I'm
excited that we are raising a new.
New generation of girls that are going to be really excited about
they're going to know exactly what a woman is and they're
going to know exactly what it is we're capable of doing.
It's it's funny that you mentioned that specifically and
I think it goes to a conversation, a broader
conversation about feminism. When you were growing up, what
did feminism look like? And and by the way, where did
you grow up when you were seeing these kind of things?
Yeah, I grew up in Florida for the most part.
My family's from New York originally, but I grew up in
Florida. You know, what did feminism look
like to me? I don't, I don't really know.
I mean, I I think it was a time when we were being told you
could do anything you wanted. I never really looked at
feminism or or I was never treated in a family where it was
kind of like, you know, the the key to being a strong woman was
doing everything that a man does that, you know, men and women
are different. So it was really about
celebrating we know women and and how unique and special we
are and what what. What a special role we play
People ask all the time. Well why not dads for liberty?
Well, because strong men support strong women and that is the
example that was set for me in my life with my own family, with
my mom and dad. So, you know, feminism looked a
lot like just, you know, using all of your God-given talents
and and to and potential to make stuff happen for yourself.
When did that definition change, if you saw it in your life?
I think it changed more in college and in kind of as I got
older. But again, I think I've been
largely unaffected by the feminist movement.
It just wasn't something that was ever a big part of my life.
I I do watch with my other friends that it was almost like
they had to make a choice. You know, sometimes I do
interviews with different journalists and I'll ask them.
I'll say I actually have stopped asking, you know, do you have
kids? Because what I have found is a
lot of women that went into the workforce.
I'm 44 but. A lot of women that went into
the workforce that are around my age or a little bit older seem
to have make a choice. They had to decide whether or
not they were going to have a family or whether they're where
we're going to go and work and travel and.
So, you know, I have gotten the best of both worlds.
I I got to meet my husband at a fairly young age and get married
and have children. And now with Moms for Liberty,
you know, getting involved locally.
We'll talk about that in a second on my school board.
You know, now I have the opportunity to work all across
the country and help inspire other moms.
But feminism is a lie that was sold to women, I think.
I know it was. I know when it started and how
it started in American public schools.
We can talk about that too. Yeah, I'd love to it.
It seems like it's it's really done a disservice to women.
You mentioned that the reporters, you know, they don't
seem like they're as happy about the opportunity and you see some
women breaking down online on the TikTok videos and showing
that kind of information It it looks sad from the outside.
I don't have a first hand experience of it, but you
probably interact with more. I watched Chloe Cole with a lot
of moms. Her moms for Liberty had a
heritage event when she was interviewed by Doctor Jay
Richards, and she talked about not knowing whether or not
she'll ever be able to carry children.
She's a D transitioner at 15. She had a double mastectomy.
She talked about the fact that even if she can have children,
that she may not be able to breastfeed them.
I mean, she won't be able to excuse me, breastfeed them.
And so I just think women and girls in general have kind of.
Been conditioned to throw away some of the things that make us
the most special and wonderful human beings.
Women are amazing. I I, I personally, you know I I
watch some I I watch some people online and I'm not sure what
time this airs but I watch sometimes some men who think
that they are turning themselves into women through surgery
saying how much better men would like a a a man going through
that surgery. And I just think to myself, like
you obviously know nothing about women because we are very
unique. Creatures who offer a lot,
especially to men. My wife uses the term woman face
a lot in the way, the throwback of a kind of black face, and it
feels insulting. It's just a facade.
It's a joke. There's nothing comparable to to
being a real woman. There just isn't.
And I yeah, you. I mean, you get into the head.
You go, well, I felt like a woman.
So what is how would I know what a woman feels like?
I. Don't know.
Yeah, labor pains. They'll never have those.
That's when you know, yeah, I've seen it from the outside and I
was very grateful that my wife was willing to take that on.
I think she was uniquely suited for it.
I've dealt with physical pains in different ways.
There's things that I can't, you know, do that she does.
And we we used to know that the sexes were complimentary, but
even that is controversial. We're bringing it back, though.
That's why. Moms, you know, that's what I
think you're seeing, Kyle, is the resurgence of really the
celebration of what it means to be a man and a woman.
Apparently some people forgot, so we're reminding them.
Brilliant. All right, let's start kind of
early career if you what? What formed you into the person
that was going to go out and found this organization that
ended up being national? Being a mom.
That really was it, Being a mom. Becoming a mom.
So again, I told you I have 4 kids.
And so just naturally when I when my kids went to school, I
started volunteering in school for them and would go into the
classroom. And often times it wasn't my
child that I was working with in the classroom, it was maybe
another friend that they had in the classroom.
And so I would begin to notice things at their school.
For example, the the roof that we live in Florida, there's a
lot of outdoor hallways and things.
The halls would flood. There were a lot of leaks and a
lot of the overpasses like that. You know that the covers of of
the hallways and so kids would come to school with wet shoes
from the day before. And so I went to the principal
and I said, can you explain to me what's happening here?
Why aren't they fixing? Why isn't the district fixing
this school? And I still remember the
principal said to me she was like, Oh yeah, they don't really
like when we ask too many questions, you know, when we
make waves. Just, you know, in my whole life
people have said like, don't make ways, Tiffany, just don't
start right. And so I feel like you took that
direction very well and you took that to heart.
So I said to the principal, I was like, I don't care if the
district doesn't like me. I mean I'm going to go ask them
why they aren't fixing the school.
And so I did. I went and I found out that we
have been on the capital outlay plan for over 10 years and kept
getting bumped off. It's a five year plan and we
would just keep getting bumped off the back end because this
school was on the island in Florida and was.
Seen as, I guess like a privileged school.
But we had 58% of kids that had free and reduced lunch that
qualified for free and reduced lunch that had that poverty that
met that threshold. And so you had a lot of kids
coming to school with wet shoes. And my kids were lucky enough
they had two pairs of sneakers and we would change them out
when they would get wet. It's hard when you're 5 years
old to concentrate on learning how to read if your shoes are
wet and smelly, right? And it's embarrassing.
So I got the school fixed because I brought a bunch of
moms together and I said let's go talk to the district.
And sure enough, they renovated the whole school.
They tried to shut it down first, but obviously we didn't
let that happen. And then they renovated the
school and then someone said you should run for school board and
I. I had never been political.
In fact, I had no party affiliation.
My family had, We had always voted, but we weren't like a
political family. And I was like, oh, no way.
Like, I'm not going to run for office.
I had never in a million years thought of that.
But then I was convinced, and I did it.
And Tina Deskovich, who's the cofounder of Moms for Liberty,
has a similar story of, you know, just getting involved with
school because of her kids. And then she was very concerned
about standardized testing and Common Core.
And so, you know, what we learned is we're not special or
unique in any way. There are millions of moms just
like me and Tina. We meet them all the time and
they can make change happen in their own local community and at
the national level. So that's why Moms for Liberty,
We just want moms to be effective advocates.
You said something that kind of caught my ear a little bit.
You said we didn't let that happen.
What does that look like? We just I brought school board
members out to tour the school and one gentleman who I like to
refer to now is Fog Horn Leghorn.
That's exactly the character he reminds me of, said In this I'll
say I'll say I'll say we're not going.
To boy, he said, well, what should shut down the school?
How much would it cost to just build?
And I looked at him and I said, that's not happening.
You're not shutting down this school like this is an important
school. The island needs to be connected
to the public school system. It's the only public school that
we have on the island. And I'm not going to let you
shut down the school. And so, you know, I got 10 moms
together, and we started passing out Flyers and letting people
know they needed to come to the school board to speak and let
them know they needed to fix the school.
And sure enough, within a year, we had a commitment to renovate
the entire school. And the truth is, Kyle, when the
county came out to take a look at the school to see what the
conditions were, they condemned to the cafeteria.
They, literally, in the middle of that school year, closed the
cafeteria down. Had to bring in a trailer for
the children to eat and had to make the food at a different
school and bus it over every day because the conditions in the
cafeteria. We had so many rats.
It was so gross and unsafe that they had to condemn the school,
but it it just took parents getting involved and making
enough noise to make something happen.
Now I learned through the process of advocating for the
school that the reason that the principal did not want me to
make waves was because her numbers were crap.
For student achievement was awful.
She had less than 30% of African American students reading on
grade level in 3rd grade in her school.
And yet we were getting an A rating every year.
And so as I dug, I went back to her and I said, you know, how do
you take an A rating for this school when you have an entire
subgroup of children that are failing?
You're you're you're hiding the failure with all these other
kids, but you're not meeting the needs of these children.
And so then. Me asking about the
infrastructure of the school became me asking about the
priorities of the the district and whether or not we were truly
serving children well. And and the issues that that
school faced when and you know this is kind of technical but
they weren't considered to be a title one school that was
getting additional funding for those students of need because
they hadn't met what the threshold was, the federal
threshold or the state threshold excuse me to receive extra money
for those kids in need. That meant that at that school
where my kids went, 58% of the kids weren't getting the
services that they would have gotten if they had been at a
title one school where they had over 75% of the kids who were
free and reduced lunch, if that makes sense to you.
So just a lot of, you know in a system where they talk about
equity, equity, equity, not a lot of equality or equity
happening, it's it's always amazing that there's these
metrics and these numbers that drive poor performance.
Who set those numbers if you know?
The the poverty threshold numbers and the state the state
sets that threshold and it changes.
But the problem is, is that you don't get more money if you have
more schools that become title one schools that the reporting
has come. First of all, a couple things.
The reporting is not accurate. They have many schools across
the United States of America where they're just saying it's
100% free and reduced lunch and and and they're not actually
reporting on whether or not that the parents are meeting that
threshold. But.
When you're talking about in Florida, for example, the state
setting the threshold for what they believe a school meets
title one, that should get those title one funds and it's not a
bigger pie. So when you have a district and
you say okay, well we have another school now that is is
meeting the threshold of percentage of students that are
coming from poverty. They don't give you more money,
you just have to cut the pieces of the pie.
Into smaller pieces and give them out.
So it's a very complicated federal funding for for students
of need, whether it's idea, which is individual, you know,
students who have exceptional needs, or whether it's students
who are coming from poverty is not being done in a way where
the money follows the child and it should be agreed.
That makes perfect sense though, that they're not going to make a
bigger pie just because there's this going on.
So let me ask you this, Did you start off feeling very confident
about getting involved in this, or did you ever have any
misgivings about jumping into the the sort of vocal arena that
you're in? Are you talking about when I ran
for school board or mom or even before that?
Because just, I mean the the preface to this.
Apparently as you walked in and saw kids with wet shoes, a lot
of people would say that's really a shame and then that
would be the end of that. You decided to get involved in a
fight that didn't have to do with your kids shoes, right?
Yeah, yeah, so. That tells me there is that a.
Is that a personality type? Is that something or is there?
Was there something that you were fed up with his or you just
don't like stinky shoes or what? Whoa.
I mean, there's something had to push you into the action here.
Yeah, it was just frustrating. I started going to school board
meetings while I was advocating for the school.
And I was just watching the disconnect.
The unions had an undue influence in our children's
education. It was like, why do certain kids
at a school eat lunch at 10:30? Oh, it's the bargaining
contract. Like, really?
The unions having kids eat at 10:00 o'clock in the morning
like I when you have little kids as you know they eat breakfast
and then they eat lunch at 10:00 o'clock by 2:00, o'clock.
They're hungry and they're tired and right.
Are they getting food? No they weren't And and the
union was making that decision in my district.
So I just was looking and saying doesn't seem like parents really
have as much of a voice in their kids education as they should.
Who are these school board members?
Why are they so beholden to the unions?
So I just decided, you know that I would run for school board and
and somebody told me, you know you need to raise $40,000.
So my husband was my finance guy and every week he would set a
goal for me and on Thursday he would call me and be like you
need to go raise the money Tiffany.
And he would. $40,000 it just was the number.
It was just the IT was just the number that we thought we needed
in order to be able to spend what we needed to spend to get
me on school board. I had never run for office
before and. You've got a great name though,
so that that helps it does it. Does.
And they were like, this is like a stage name for her, her school
board run. But there was a guy who was
running who was very young, but the Republican Party was
supporting him. I was told he was in the pocket
of someone who wanted something happening on the school board.
So the Republican Party didn't like me and the Democrats didn't
like me because I wasn't willing to like, you know, write a blank
check to the union. And I refused to go to any of
their events unless they would invite the guy who was being
endorsed by the Republicans, because I wanted an honest
conversation. And so I hadn't.
I didn't get support from anyone from, like, political parties,
but I won actually, with 60% of the vote.
So. How about that, right?
So wait, the Republicans didn't like you, the Democrats didn't
like you, and 60% of the voters like you?
That sounds like a microcosm for America right now, yes.
That's why Moms for Liberty, really.
I think that one of the things that people have said that I
think is oftentimes not true, but they don't realize it that
you know they think we're like GOP puppet like you know we have
some you're. Funded by dark money.
I'm sure we we have no, I mean, some of the biggest opposition
that we've actually faced, even for our chapters across the
country has been like Republican executive committees or the
Republican Party. Because a lot of times they have
this idea of what, like what the establishment is going like.
It's, you know, that the establishment like, oh, Susie's
going to run for school board and then Susie's brother's
husband's going to run. And then in 10 years, Susie's
son is going to like, you know, and we came in and we were like,
like we're not asking for permission.
We're not going to wait in line. There isn't some hoop we have to
jump through in order to be considered to be qualified.
We're just going to, you know, run for office and win some
seats. So that makes people increase
sometimes. So we brought it up and and
let's let's do it critically. What?
What is the source of most of the funding that comes in?
How do you raise money? And And you know, what kind of
what are your biggest donors and what are your smallest donors
look like? Yeah, So we started with small
donors. So we started with $500 in
Tina's back bedroom. We made some tshirts and we sold
over $150,000 worth of merchandise in our first year.
And we had a donor come in that was a large, like, I mean
comparatively a larger donor for us at the time because we were
selling tshirts that helped us that first year.
And then, yeah, we've attracted bigger donors as we've grown.
But I still don't think that our budget is where a lot of people
think it is. We just punch really high.
We we punch above our weight class because that's what moms
do. You just if you see a problem
and you're a mom, if you see harm happening to your child or
another person's child, you're just going to find a way to stop
it. You're not going to wait for
permission, as I said, or make excuses as to why something
isn't changing. You're just going to find a way
to change it. So we have larger donors that
have come in that have been supporting us.
But as Tina knows, I say, and we'll probably die.
Then I'm going to say it on this show, but I will because I
really like you, Kyle. We don't have a pimp.
No one tells us. Why does she hate that?
I'm sorry. Why does she hate that?
Because it's just so crass to say, you know, it sounds so
harsh, but we don't have a pimp. No one comes in from top down
Moms for Liberty and says you have to spend money on this.
You need to focus on this because we're not a top down
organization. We're set up by chapters all
over the country and what we're really trying to do is establish
decentralized leadership. It needs to be about the leader
in your own community. The mom that I was that ran for
school board and and Tina Wright and so many other moms who are
standing up as chapter chairs saying like, we're not going to
wait for permission to have our voices heard in our children's
lives. Like it's a very fleeting time
in a child's life. And I think what mom saw during
COVID was it's very different to turn 12 to 13 than it is to go
from 32 to 33. Moms know that there were like,
they missed kindergarten in first grade.
They didn't go back and go to kindergarten.
They just moved him right along like that's.
Crazy because it's based on age. It's not based on performance or
anything else, apparently. I mean, you know, crazy that
those kids didn't get the foundational knowledge they
needed to be successful. And then everyone's like, oh,
why are test scores falling? I wonder why?
So many mysteries that we have. Why is there cocaine in the
White House? And who leaked the dot decision?
So many unsolvable mysteries. Let me let me dig one more
question on this. And I don't need to know the
names of the donors because it doesn't matter to me and I won't
know who they are anyway. But give me an idea of what a
big donation looks like for your organization at this point and
and I just want. To have a concept of it, I, like
I said, it doesn't mean anything one way or another.
Yeah, I mean, you mentioned Jeff Childress, so he did a campaign
for us through Coffee and COVID and we had like 5500 original
donors from him and over $130,000.
We have donor donations that will come in that are 5010
thousand dollars, sometimes just randomly.
We have some people that give to us fairly regularly.
And then we have some donors that are working with us now
that are interested in investing in a much larger way where I'm
talking about, you know, hundreds of thousands of
dollars. So, you know, we are, and
rightly so, attracting attention because nobody's gonna fight for
anything like a mom is gonna fight for their kid.
And James Lindsay spoke at our summit and he said moms will
stop a revolution. We will.
I believe that in my heart. I've gone back in history, James
and I, you know, I asked him about Hungary like 1919.
You look back and and there was, you know, communist revolution
going on in in Hungary. It was stopped in part.
They came after the kids. They really sexualized the kids.
And the parents in Hungary stood up at that point.
There isn't a lot of written history about it, as much as we
would like. But, you know, it's just kind of
been this question of like, how are you going to stop this
cultural revolution that's happening in America, this
Marxism that we're seeing? And the truth is, they're not
having their own children. So they have to have our
children. And we stand in the way between
them getting our kids. And we're the last generation.
I think I'm 44. How old are you?
42 I'll be 42 at the end of this year.
So yeah, we're we're close. We had a similar childhood, I
imagine. Yeah.
I mean, we grew up in the 90s, you know, and and so I think a
lot of us are looking now and saying like, we know it doesn't
have to be like this. We grew up in the 90s.
When I was growing up, you could date whoever you wanted, like.
I don't remember that ever being a question.
No, I I I have friends who married people of different
religions, friends who married people of different races that
had children together. And now we look at America,
where we have a lot of biracial children, and that was, I went
on Doctor Phil twice. Now I can't even twice.
I've done it once on you. Used to coach my brother's
basketball team. Doctor Phil?
Yeah. Oh, that's crazy.
He's very tall. Is he was a basketball player?
I guess. I don't know.
He was teaching 6th graders or something like that.
So it wasn't like a high level basketball team.
He was. He wasn't Doctor Phil the way
that you know him now. He was Coach Phil, but I mean,
he's been having some of the most important conversations in
America as far as I'm concerned. And we were allowed to.
You're allowed to ask him one question when you go there, like
if you have one question for Doctor Phil, what would that be?
And my question was what does it say to all of the children that
are coming from our generation of families that are of of
different religions and different races, mixed races to
say to them that half of them is good and half of them is bad.
Like we never talk about biracial kids and what CRT
actually does to them in the classroom.
And yeah, it's very it's it's, you know, so I I just think
we're the last generation that kind of they keep trying to
divide our kids and we grew up really not being that divided.
It was, you know, you think about MTV, we were all
experiencing like different music from different cultures
and that was very exciting and fun.
And you know, you think about how diverse your interest in
music were as a kid, right? Well, tell me, tell me maybe
some of your top five ish. I don't know.
It doesn't matter the number, but your top five ish shows that
you remember watching when you were a kid, middle school, high
school, age. Just tell me what they were and
then and then I want you. We'll evaluate the cast and then
you tell me how racist we were in the 80s and 90s.
Yeah, I watched Family Matters. That's racist, OK?
Yep. All all white people, obviously.
Well, I mean, we like, I'm just trying to think of the shows we
watched. We were allowed to watch Full
House, OK? So you got a black family and a
white family. The white family.
Yeah. I mean, that's what we watched.
We did a tiny night. Family shows, you know, Remember
when they used to have the shows on?
That's what my parents would let us watch.
Did you watch Sister? Sister?
Yes, I watched Sister. Sister Moesha.
Yeah, Moesha 100% fresh. Prince hanging with Mr. Cooper.
Yep. Yeah, we really we it was.
I mean, I just feel like the 90s were a great time to grow up.
But like I look at our friends and and people that I meet in
this space of the work that we do and we all kind of have that
similar experience where we're like, why are they trying to
divide our kids so much? Like we got past that.
I thought we, I thought we were, we were going so much farther as
a country together as people. I mean, for two people to fall
in love with each other and to create another life, that's the
most special thing that you can do.
And we do that in America all the time.
I'm sorry. I said How dare you?
I don't know, but that's why I just.
Think it's baloney? That's why it's how people
stayed together. It's what they It's the whole
reason why anything worked. I think for like thousands of
years in this country. You you talked about stopping
the revolution and there is a revolution.
It's pushing against the thing that we grew up in.
So what's the revolution look like and how are you stopping
it? The revolution looks like our
kids being told that America is a systemically broken country
and racist country and that religion is a joke and that home
is not safe. Kind of the tearing down of the
the the old guard, right as as I think you'd see.
Or the, the, the four. But you know, as we saw in Mao's
China, right, the building of the Red Guard and the tearing
down of the olds, the four olds. And I think that's what we're
seeing in America. And the public schools are being
used to do it. The unions control the schools.
The teachers unions do. Why would they have an interest
in this? Why would the teachers unions
benefit? Out of curiosity?
They make a lot of money from the schools.
Just the oldest thing in the world.
Just greed. Just greed.
Just basic corruption. Yep, $575 million in dues that I
think the A FT got last year. 99% of the political donations
given by unions go to Democrats. I just keep waiting.
Like I watched Robert Kennedy last night on Hannity.
I don't know if you got to see that, did you guys?
So I watched it and it was really interesting because you
know, he represents a Democrat party that I think a lot of
people in America are saying like where is that party?
Because the Democrat Party we're dealing with right now.
And again, as I said, I've been NPA most of my life.
So I'm not like a rah, rah go team Republican.
It's just not my nature. I'm an issue based person,
right. That's how I've always voted.
But what he just said was, you know, the decisions coming out
of the White House are horrible. I keep waiting for Democrat
legislators and parents to wake up and say like parental rights
are not partisan issues. These are not.
This is not a Republican thing, and I don't understand why
Democrat elected officials are allowing it to be.
Do you? It doesn't make any sense to me.
It well, it doesn't. This is, this is my kind of
perspective on it. I don't know what your
reflection will be. I used to think that people in
the 90s that were in politics and I was minimally aware of
them. Sort of disagreed on the policy
on how to get to the same, to get to what they thought was the
best outcome. But they all agreed on sort of
what the values were. And now we don't have the same
values. And maybe that's the disconnect.
I think that's the same thing that's happened in schools to
Robert Pandisio, who's a fellow at a EI wrote something on
Twitter the other day. And he he was like, you know, is
it that values were never taught in school or that we took values
out Or is it that there were values that were taught in
school, but they were all values that we had all commonly kind of
agreed to? Right.
And I think you find that's where we are in America in
general. Like you think about the books.
You know, in America we have always had this idea of like,
what is age appropriate? We know that certain things are
not age appropriate. Like you know R rated movies,
right? We have movie ratings.
You don't see anyone petitioning movie ratings like.
How dare they? How dare they keep 13 year olds
out of sexual content or swearing or something, right?
I mean, even in school they can't just show your kid APG or
PG13 movie. They can't just do that right?
Tipper Gore? She fought for explicit content
warning labels on music. If you think about even children
in schools right now, they don't have unfettered access to the
Internet like a very interesting FOIA that you can do if you're
watching this as a parent. It's just ask your school
district. What Internet sites do you
filter from children having access to in your district
regardless of age. And then I just want parents to
compare that and and their and and the reasons for why they
might filter those things to like the concerns they have
about books for example and and then also you can layer that and
say you know do the teachers have the ability and the
discretion to choose what they give access to the children to
on the Internet in their classroom and the district is
going to tell you no the teachers do not have discretion.
The district controls that. Is that because the district
doesn't trust the teachers, right.
You know, like we've been told, like classroom libraries.
Oh, you know, shame on you parents for not trusting the
classroom library. Well, the district doesn't trust
the Internet access being controlled in the classroom
either. So, you know, there are
different controls and different things we as a society have
always agreed on for children. And it seems like a lot of those
things have kind of gone out the window right now.
And that's why I think you see us in such a polarized place
because we can't find agreement or we're not being allowed to
find agreement on a lot of the things that I actually think we
just finished national polling are 7030 issues in America right
now. So the vast majority and an
overwhelming majority are in favor of the positions you're
holding. So some of the stuff that has
been quote UN quote controversial that you guys got
involved in and we can kind of dig into this.
I think you just touched on censorship might be one of those
things that you're, you're accused of.
What is the argument saying that you're in favor of censorship
And then? Maybe present me both sides with
what they're saying and what's what.
Maybe if it's not reality. So I think there has been this
effort to label us as book banners.
I immediately, when I saw President Biden's campaign video
released when he talked about book banning, realized that it
was a wedge issue. It's just an issue that they've
decided they're going to make extremely political.
When I went and testified before the House Judiciary Committee
the Constitution Limited government subcommittee.
I spoke about the fact that the FBI had contacted one of our
moms after she spoke at a school board meeting and the Democrats
put up someone from Pen America which is an organization that is
led by Obama era admin that they wanted to make the whole issue
and the whole hearing about books and and and you know my
question to her was where were you when our when our speech was
being limited at the school board Mike.
So I think it's just become a political issue.
It's it's been made a political issue and the truth is there's
some really explicit graphic content in our kids libraries
that most people you know I challenged President Biden the
other day. I was like, why don't you read
it to your grandchildren? I asked President Obama when he
put out that letter, you know, about, you know, the books that
have influenced his life. I I put up All the Boys Aren't
Blue by a gentleman named George Johnson.
And I said, you know, President Obama, which part of this shaped
your life? Was it the anal rape or was it
the incest? Would you read it to your
daughters before bedtime? It's a disingenuous conversation
that we're having because they want to paint us as some type of
book banner. And what we are asking is why
are taxpayer dollars being used to buy and give explicit content
to minors in our public schools? Where's the line for for books
that we don't want in there for you?
I just put it I I said on CBS Sunday Morning.
Just really, really low. I'm willing to start at no
graphic rape scenes, sex, anal sex.
No instructions about how to go on like Tinder to find people to
have sex with. Perhaps.
Maybe no instructions about blowjobs.
Like, I'm willing to really make the bar low.
I don't know what time this airs, but I have said the most
explicit things on camera. I try to show the pictures.
I have the books right here. You can't show the pictures.
You can't. I've tried on Chris Cuomo show.
I've tried on CBS Sunday Morning.
I have told Joy Read. I would go on, but I'll bring.
But I want to bring the books and I want to show the books.
But they can't let you show the books because they'll get an FCC
violation. But apparently it's okay for a
public school. It it just it.
It's just a disingenuous conversation.
It's a lie. How about Huck Finn?
Yeah, I don't have a problem with Huckleberry Finn.
I don't know. About To Kill a Mockingbird,
Yeah, I don't. I don't.
We don't have a problem with that either, and we're not
trying to to rewrite Rawl Dahl or.
Just asking numbers that things that I remember reading right
Mice and men. There's some murder in there.
There's an accidental murder, right?
That's violence. What was?
What was it? I'm sorry.
Of Mice and Men, right? Yes.
I think there's also a very common sense conversation about
age and age appropriateness here.
The American Holocaust Museum has age ranges as far as what
they think, how, what ages they think that children should go
come and see their exhibit. And there was a Florida
legislator that spoke very eloquently about it and he said
that there is an exhibit, I believe that is for 6th grade
and up. And then there is a specific
exhibit for 4th and 5th graders and then below that age of 4th
grade, which let's think about that for a second.
How old 6778? You're talking about 8-9 years
old. Below that age, you know, there
are just some things that maybe kids don't need to see and know
about and hear. And that's just the truth, You
know, you have a six year old. I do, you know.
She speaks in paragraphs, but I know she doesn't know all the
things that she says. Even those are those are
constructions that she's mirroring you, you.
She believes in Santa, probably. It's very.
And and they they think that they understand the words that
they're saying, but they're really kind of trying them on.
And we think they understand them because they sound like
words that people say, but they're not full people.
They're still building up until you have kids and then you
actually talk to children on a regular basis.
I think it's probably easy to, you know, for like a Randi
Weingarten for example, to think of children as just like
miniature adults. They look kind of like miniature
adults until you start listening to what they have to say, right?
Like my my 6 year old who speaks in paragraphs at a level WAVY of
above her, her age that you would expect.
She's very precocious and she's very intelligent and she
gathered a bunch of grass and put it on the concrete and
started putting snails on it for a habitat, which is an
interesting idea. I just don't think the snails
will stay there and I don't think that they have anything to
do with the grass, but. You know that's how you learn
that you put snails on grass and find that they're not there in
the morning and where did they go?
Did a bird eat them? I don't know.
So we have all these interesting conversations that no adult
would ever have because she's not an adult.
She's a six year old. She's learning about the world
using an advanced set of tools like a words and she says very
aggressive. We we don't filter any of our
vocabulary. So my my daughter speaks like a
like a 20 year old, even though she has the perception of a six
year old because she's six, right?
It's very fun and and that's the thing, you know, I, I, I think
when you're talking about public school libraries, and we'll just
be very specific about public school libraries, there is a
finite amount of space and there is a finite amount of money.
And so you're making decisions about what belongs in that
library, right? And our goal should be for
children to want to read, but I want them to learn to read and
learn to read. Well, we're not having the
conversation about the fact that the kids aren't learning how to
read, right? So isn't it so important for us
to talk about what books are being put in that library, so
that they're an extension of the learning in the classroom and
that we're meeting the needs of the child?
But we're not talking about the fact that 2/3 of children are
not reading at or above grade level in America 2/3.
Are there Hardy Boys and Nancy Drew books available in these
libraries? Because that's what I feel like
I consume the most of. When I was young and learning
how to read, that's what got me reading.
I think there are. I think you have a wide
variance. I think what the library issue,
it's so much bigger than the books.
Here's what it exposed, Kyle. It exposed the fact that there
is a lot of money that is spent in public schools without a lot
of oversight. And there are people that
control how that is money is being spent that aren't even
working in the schools, like publishers, for example, or
curriculum people, right? I mean, you have people making
decisions in the school like the school board, you know, Okay,
we're going to spend, you know, $10,000 on XYZ, right?
But as far as what's coming into the library, there were bundles
of books coming in. Well, how do they choose what
books you're going to buy in a library?
Well, you're going to buy the very best books, right?
Well, how do you determine what the very best books are?
You look and see what books have gotten awards.
Great. Who's giving the awards?
Well, the American Library Association.
And that sounds fine until you know that the woman that was
just voted and elected to be the head of the library Association
is a self-proclaimed Marxist. She's a lesbian, which I could
care less about. I don't care who she has sex
with. I don't think that has a bearing
on her job and her ability to do her job.
Yeah, apparently it's you're right.
It's informing her work. You know, my sexual orientation
does not inform my work, but but it does for her.
Perhaps the Marxist thing, though, like, that's kind of a
problem for us, right? And so if you're buying the very
best books that get the awards and you look at who's giving the
awards and then you see for the past 10 years, the only books
that have been given awards are books that are very focused on
woke ideology and Marxist ideology.
Well, now you know why we have all these books in the libraries
and there was no vetting process or oversight.
We, you know, that's what moms really wanted.
It wasn't that we were looking to have a, I mean there were
some books they wanted removed, but they were also saying how
are you, how was this librarian making the decisions about what
book should be there. And so we went through a process
in Florida. There was a bill called HB1467
that we supported our chapters in Florida, supported through
our legislative committee here and we can talk about the
structure of our organization. The chapters come together and
in legislative committees. So they supported that bill.
And then two of those moms served on the work group
committee for 1467 that actually put into process procedures and
put into place, excuse me, procedures and processes that
districts would have to follow. So that there was some
accountability measure for librarians or media specialists
about how they select content and how that content is
approved. How did you get involved in in
looking into librarians and the library associations?
Like what led you to that that thread our moms it it wasn't top
down. Tina and I weren't like, let's
take on the libraries. Like, if I had known that.
I like that better, though, yeah.
But I mean, the beauty of what we do really is it springs from
the moms. It it's it's what they're
concerned about in their own communities.
Not every library has a lot of these books.
I would tell you more libraries do than we would like.
But it's not the case that every library has a copy of gender
queer. So, you know, the last thing we
want is a mom going down to their school board and demanding
that gender queer is removed. And then the school board, the
school district saying like you didn't do your homework and it's
not here, that is not being effective that you you you don't
want to be a joke, right. And So what we've really put on
the moms is you have to do your research and you need to address
what's happening in your district.
So I think some of our moms saw online, there was this Mary in
the library, I think it was an older woman actually who started
it, probably a retired librarian who was fed up.
And so they started seeing these different books that were in
some of the libraries and then they just started going online.
You can just go into your, it's called this, this library
catalog in your district and say, I wonder if all the boys
aren't blue or in any schools in my district.
And lo and behold, in Montgomery County, Pennsylvania, in Oak
Park Elementary School, there was a copy of All the Boys
Aren't Blue, which, as I stated earlier, a A young man tells the
story of being anally raped by a a family member while and he was
a child. I mean, you know, why is that?
In an elementary school library, There's genderqueer.
That's lovely. Yeah, that's another one.
That's this is the value that Ryan is able to to shock people
with a little bit. That's good.
I think that one has gotten a lot of attention but it I mean
it's right front center if you walk into a target these days.
Yeah, I don't like banned book displays in libraries, in
schools. What is the age of these
librarians that are activists? Is there, If there is such a
thing like a banded age, that's interesting.
I don't really know the answer to that to be honest with you.
I was the woman that they had on CBS Sunday Morning when we did
that special was a woman who seemed to be in her probably
early 30s and she was wearing a tshirt and her tshirt said
educating is activism. And I put up a tweet about it.
I took a picture and I was like this is what they think they
they really have been trained that educating his activism.
I don't know if any of your listeners know Paulo Ferrari or
anything about Ferrari and and and The Politics of Education
and The Pedagogy of the Oppressed 2 books that are used
in a lot of I think they're top two books in the social sciences
studies in America. But he was a Brazilian Marxist
theologian who believed that the schools were the purpose was to
awaken a critical consciousness in the child, in the person that
was being an educated, educated. And that's what's happening in
American schools right now. I've lost track of the question
you asked me, because now I'm talking about Ferrari.
That was a good answer, anyhow. You were talking about the
education's activism. Tshirt that The types of
librarians. So they're activators.
Yeah. They think they're liberators.
They really feel like, you know, as marks, you know, they're
trapped in this world that's been created for them.
And they need to tear down the world around them to create the
utopia that I guess is communism.
Although I continue to try to remind everyone that communism
has taken the lives of over 100 million people in the past 100
years in across the globe. And communism is really bad.
But when we were in Philly, we had the Young Communist League.
Like, they made Flyers. I could show you a flyer.
You know, the communists were protesting us.
The revolutionary communists were protesting us.
Like communism is alive and well in America.
And there are a lot of young people that are being sucked
into this idea that that somehow it's going to bring a better
America forward. Which, you know, if I could sit
them down for a few hours, I'd like to show them what communism
has done in other. Maybe on their iPhones, yeah.
So, so the young, the young communists were protesting you
in Philly. This is that kind of violent.
We saw they were screaming at moms.
I don't know if I saw you specifically walking out, but it
looked like they were getting in some moms faces.
They were just regular ladies walking out of a Convention
Center with these kind of unhinged protesters.
Yeah, yeah. That was the first night we had
an event at the Museum of the American Revolution.
It was vandalized the night before.
People spray painted a mural of Washington crossing the Delaware
and broke windows and that was very sad.
We felt very bad because the museum was lovely to us and did
not cancel us as the protesters wanted.
There were hundreds of people protesting us that night,
screaming awful things. I have a 19 minute video that a
a person in Philadelphia recorded that shows some of the
behind the scenes. And yeah, we had to bust people
to the museum from the hotel because it was unsafe for them
to try to get there on their own.
And as we were walking in, they were just screaming at us, just
screaming at a bunch of moms. I mean, it was pretty crazy,
Kyle. Do they know that moms are
basically professionals at tuning out obnoxious screaming?
I don't know if they do or not. Our moms were waving as they
walked in. They had their phones on.
Yeah. I mean, you know, I'm not going
to lie, we had moms who brought kids and stuff.
They had their hands over their kids, ears, some of them.
You know, I had my daughter with me.
She's 18. She was, it was really
disconcerting, you know, It's a lot of hate that's being pushed
at us. There you go.
There's the Marriott that they wanted to cancel us.
The Marriott was amazing. The staff was amazing.
We thanked them during the summit and then when we finished
at the event and when the the last day Sunday the breakfast
was over and we walked out of the the the banquet hall, all of
the staff was lined up clapping for us.
So note to anyone looking to travel Marriott Rocks.
They treated us beautifully even though I know that it brought a
lot of extra baggage for them as an organization.
But if you are choosing a hotel, choose Marriott.
I'm a big, big fan. I use Marriott all the time.
I did not know that they were so good to you guys.
Yeah, they're awesome. Interesting.
I'm a platinum Elite member or something.
Whatever metal they have that is higher than gold or diamond or
whatever it is. So we've been really easy.
That's what they wanted. They wanted to get us cancelled.
I mean, that was it, right? The SPLC sent out.
So they put us on the extremist list.
Let's talk about that for a second.
SPLC When did they first take note of you guys?
I would imagine the first day that we created ourselves
because we have been trying to get attention since then.
What sort of, what sort of hate watch did they consider you?
And I don't, I don't know. I mean, I think they've tried to
be like fancy with the intricacy of the designation, so.
But they have a hate map. We're on it.
Right next to the KKK and United Skinhead Nation.
Yeah, that's right. I'm Don't I look like the face
of hate in America? I'm feeling that.
Thank you. And they said we're
antigovernment and we're an extremist organization.
And so you know I'm really we're going to really take a lot of of
issue with the antigovernment piece because we endorsed in
over 500 school board races in 20/22 and 1/2 over.
We won 275 of those and we out of all of the endorsed
candidates, 76% were first time candidates that had never run
for anything just like when I had ran for running for school
board. So I don't think we're anti
government. I think we are showing that it
is we the people are the government and we're taking the
government back from the 4th branch, the administrative state
as the vague talks of often. So I I guess it's just that they
don't like, they don't like the way we engage with government
and that gives them the right to call us antigovernment.
But it's it's you know, having a huge effect.
People are trying to use the designation in a lot of ways to
hurt us so. I feel like they've been roundly
discredited by anybody that matters.
But but they still go out there and do their things, so good for
them. God bless them, I guess.
Bless their hearts, as we say in the South, right?
So there are three levels of government, though.
There's the local government closest to you, there's the
state government, and then there's the federal government.
Are you anti any level of government?
Is there any particular gradation to what you guys are
talking about when they put that designation?
I think it's just really important that we understand
what role the federal government should play in our everyday
lives. And we're very concerned that
they're playing too much of A role in our everyday lives.
You know, we saw that during COVID.
So COVID happens. I think every American mom and
dad are like, wait a second, there are a lot of really bad
policies that are hurting our kids.
Who's making these policies? Because they need to change,
right? I think that's what a lot of
American parents were like, well, this isn't going to work.
We need to change this. And then so then they had to
search and they had to figure out where does the authority lie
for this decision making. And a lot of it lies with your
local school board. Tina and I knew that when we,
you know, when we served, there's a lot of things that
happen in your children's lives and in your community that your
school board controls. So that's why we only endorse
and engage at that most local level of school board.
But our legislative committees come together now across the
state and they focus on issues. So you'll have a representative
from every chapter in the state that serves on the legislative
committee. They review all of the
legislation that's being sponsored.
They bring legislation and policies forward that they would
like to see sponsored. And then they work to either
help to get things passed or to work against things and to have
their voice heard at that level of government.
And they've been very effective at doing that.
Yeah, that sounds like participation in government, not
anti government, correct. And so I'm going to, you know,
we're pursuing legal action against the SPLC and we take it
very seriously. Fair enough.
I think COVID changed the games a lot for for parents.
When was Moms for Liberty founded?
When did you guys start doing this game?
January of 2021. So our our school board term was
2016 to 2020. Tina T and I both.
But we weren't friends. We didn't know each other.
I always think it's interesting, people think we were like
friends before. We we just both were in
neighboring counties and we were on the downside of almost every
vote. We were fighting for parental
rights. We were seeing so many issues
happening where the government was encroaching on the private
rights of citizens. And you know, I've spoken to
some other people around the country about this.
There was, there was like a visceral reaction that some of
us had to what was happening. Like it felt like when they
closed schools, when I felt like somebody punched me in the
stomach, Like we immediately knew that like this is very,
very bad, you know. So we spent the last part of our
terms fighting against government overreach.
And then our terms ended in at the end of November of 2019, I'm
sorry, of 2020, excuse me. And then Tina came to me in
December and she was like, we need to do something.
We need to we there are all these groups that are standing
up and trying to get moving and get focused and they're having a
really hard time because they don't know what to do and who to
talk to and how to say what they need to say and and maybe we
could help them. And I said, okay, let's see what
we can do. And we decided we would just
start in Florida. And then within two weeks we had
a request. We launched January 2021.
In two weeks we had a request from Nassau County, New York,
which is where my family's from. So it wasn't a family member,
but I wasn't surprised that they were feisty up there and wanted
to get involved. And they, a woman named Barbara
Abboud wanted to start a chapter.
And Tina came to me and she said, I know we were just going
to do Florida, but what do you think?
And I just remember saying to her like it's not ours, like how
do you keep it from her? You know, how how do we not
expand now? And so we did.
And then another two weeks we had a chapter in Maryland and
now we have close to 300 chapters and in 45 States and
hopefully it'll soon it'll be 48.
So let's talk about the organization.
How does it work? Who?
Who tells who what to do or how's the money get distributed?
All the things. What's going on with your
organization? So there's this is lovely.
This is the how we decide whether or not something is
within our mission. I think a lot of organizations
take on a lot of different issues.
And so the question, you know, to our chapters is always, you
know, is it within our mission, right.
And so the first question is, is this about parental rights?
And if the answer is yes, then you go down and it says if
official action can be taken on the issue for the chapter.
When an issue falls within our mission, it is still important
to assess the most effective method to advocate for it.
And then if the answer is no, then the question becomes, does
this directly affect the education of America's children?
And so if the answer is no, going through both of those
questions, then it it might be an important issue, but it's not
something that Moms for Liberty is going to address as a
chapter. Of course, every individual
that's a member has the ability to advocate for different things
that are important to them. Sure, but you've got a narrow
mission set, and then it sounds like you have things where
something's going to come to your attention and it's
outrageous, but it's not what you do, so you stay on that
lane. Sometimes I mean public
libraries, for example. You know, you can have a problem
with your Public Library, but it's not a public school
library. And so we tell our moms, if you
want to engage in Public Library issues, that's not what Moms for
Liberty does. Parents have the right to go
into the Public Library and they are with their child when their
child is looking at books. If your community wants to pay
for gender queer and wants it in a Public Library, Okay.
Well then have the conversation with your community about that
right. But it's not a public school
library. When you're talking about public
school libraries, parents aren't there with their children.
You can't you you cannot help them to sort through and look at
the books that are there. You're trusting the public
school system to safeguard your child from pornographic content
or sexual content. You and and you should be able
to trust that they're going to do that.
So that would be an area where someone might want to try to get
involved. You know, there are other areas
that our moms are passionate about and you know they get
involved in their own personal space.
But you know, like abortion for example, that's not something we
engage on, although I know our membership have you know,
feelings about that and and and work within their own private
spaces to do work in that area if it's important to them.
But we're talking about parental rights and those would be
children that are born and and that you're raising.
So you know, we try to stay on mission.
We're set up by county and we recognize that across the United
States that looks different in different places.
In Florida, one school district is 1 county and vice versa.
So there are 67 school districts and 67 counties in Florida.
That makes it for very easy organization, much messier
across the United States of America.
And sometimes we will have hundreds of school districts in
one county or you will have a district that straddles
counties. So we've we had to adapt, but
still set up by county. There are a little over 3000
counties in the United States of America.
When you have a county that has a number of different districts
within the county, you have a chapter chair who is the head of
their chapter in that county. You have a vice chair, a
secretary and a treasurer and you have a dues paying
membership that has voting rights in order to be able to
vote on leadership and then you will have associate members
within your community. When you look at a school
district or excuse me, a county that has a number of districts,
what you'll find is that in certain areas you'll have a
chapter who has district lead for each district.
So you know, if you have, again you know, a number of different
school districts in your county, you'll have you.
You kind of decentralize that leadership and you have someone
paying attention to each district.
That makes sense. Do members have to be moms?
No, members do not have to be moms.
In fact, we have a couple chapter chairs who are dads.
We have a couple chapter chairs that are vice dads that are vice
chairs or men. We have chairs that are not even
moms, that are aunts, that don't have children, actually.
So no, you don't have to be a parent.
You don't have to be a female. You just have to be a community
member that's concerned about the future of America, and it
only takes you a second to look at the data coming out of the
districts to know that you should be very, very concerned
about America. Do you have, Do you have to be a
Republican? No, we're a nonpartisan
organization. That's very interesting
question. But I think you'd be hard
pressed to find anyone who is going to vote for Joe Biden.
So that makes it kind of more difficult, right?
You know that that to me, I think you have a lot of
Democrats and I know within our organization that we've had a
lot of Democrats and independents who were shocked at
the way that they were represented during COVID and
have really had to try to oh, Republicans by the way, and have
really had to reassess who their elected leaders are.
It's much more about issues and principle, and much less about
the letter next to your name do. You have gay members, Yes.
We have gay chapter chairs and we have members who have gay
children. That's why it's incredibly
offensive when people say that we're an anti LGBTQ organization
because they're literally insulting people who would be
considered a member of that community.
Okay, fair enough. Just curiosities that I have.
You could be a lesbian mom or lesbian not mom, and still be
part of Moms for Liberty if you chose.
Yeah, Our national outreach director is a lesbian mom, so.
Sounds very right wing extremist.
Sounds like an SPLC. Just problem waiting to happen,
huh? She's very funny.
She spoke at our summit and her name's Tia.
She's great. And she was like, she, she got
to introduce Governor DeSantis. And she was like, I'm just going
to be honest, I didn't vote for him for the first time.
So funny. She's like, but I love him now.
So you know, it's just, you know, we've got moms who voted
for Clinton. We've got moms who did vote for
Biden, who I think we're just incredibly disappointed by the
way that parents and children have been represented over the
past few years in America. Those ones that voted for
Democrats in any level of elections, what is the biggest
complaint that drives them to you?
Do you think like what? What are the ideas that they're
honing on when they think they were failed.
I think representation really having their voices heard.
I think that's really just in general where American parents
are right now. I think that I when we knew that
things were going wrong, many of us were never involved
politically. But when we knew that things
were going wrong and we went to our government officials, right,
we went to the school board or the county Commission or the
State House and we said, wait a second, something's up here.
This is really bad. Our kids are really getting
hurt. We were shut down.
Our mics were cut off. We were called domestic
terrorists by the Department of Justice.
That was the shocking point I think.
I think there was a an assumption that we had a voice
or that if there were concerns that our concerns would be
considered in the decision making process.
And when we tried to exercise those rights, we realized that
we really didn't have them anymore.
I think that has been the real wake up moment for American
parents that has made them say okay.
I know we're really busy and we're working and we're trying
to save for retirement or for our kids college or to, you
know, just be able to make ends meet right now.
But we're going to have to get involved in politics and in
government because it doesn't work well without us.
I look at 2 Moms groups right now and I know that you have
nothing to do with each other, but I think that the names say
something. There's a group that is against
guns that wants guns, basically banned.
They're called Moms Demand Action and your name is Moms for
Liberty. What do you see in the name?
A demand actually kind of implies that there may be a
right to something. What does Moms for Liberty mean?
And and to you, Why did you guys choose that name?
As opposed to Moms against, you know, school board groomings or
something else. I don't know.
Moms for Liberty is the freedom to do what you ought to do.
And so as a mother you ought to protect your children.
Your job is to protect your children.
So we are moms for liberty, having that freedom to be able
to raise our children. And and we want to see a culture
of liberty across America where people are respectful of each
other and kind. You know all of the words that
have been weaponized now, right? Kindness, inclusivity, all of
those things. But but the values that we as
Americans have collectively shared in general, right that
that's what we stand for. We stand for family and for the
connection of love and family, whatever that family may look
like. Moms Demand Action.
You know, I was a school board member during Marjory Stone,
Marjory Stoneman Douglas, the the shooting that happened in
Florida. You know there are often times
solutions that are offered by that organization that are are
solutions that are go against the founding documents of our
country and our rights as citizens.
And so we want to be effective advocates.
School safety is a huge issue and I think it's an issue that a
lot of parents are very concerned about.
But the truth is that what what we know to be true, what I know
to be true, is that criminals don't follow the laws.
So you can have as many gun laws as you want, but if someone
wants to get a hold of a gun and and do something bad, they're
going to find a way to do that. And so you know, I think in
general moms being involved and getting involved in their
children's education and in in America is very, very important.
And I think the that outweighs apathy I guess is is the way
that I would. I would put that I think that
there are a lot of opportunities for moms to come together right
now on issues where we we could find agreement and then you know
there may be some issues that we can't find direct agreement but
maybe we can start talking about some solutions and some
compromises that we can both make in order to ensure that our
children are safe in school. And I'm watching as there are
some legislators that are bringing some points up about
school safety. In fact, I'm, I'm working on on
a town hall right now, hopefully around the presidential debate
where we'll talk about with some of these candidates, the
importance of school safety. So, you know, moms, nobody's
going to fight for anything. Like a mom is going to fight for
their kids. And so I just say to all moms
that are involved, whether or not I agree with everything that
they're doing, I appreciate the fact that they prioritize their
family and their children. That's fair.
Are politicians willing from both sides of the aisle willing
to hear what you have to say? Is that a, Is that a
conversation you can have on either side?
I wish it was more of a conversation, to be honest with
you. You know, we had hoped to have
Bobby Kennedy at our summit. He had agreed to come and then
he backed out of that. And I think there's a lot of
confusion as to how that happened or how, how how that
actually, how it how it actually came to be for the the reason
why he decided not to come. But it was a decision that the
campaign and that he made, I believe.
But I think that there were votes for him at the summit, to
be honest with you. There were people that wanted to
hear what he had to say. I think that American
legislators need to wake up, whether you're a Democrat or a
Republican, and start paying attention to what parents are
concerned about. Where are laws, federal laws
that are currently not being enforced right now?
We don't need a lot of new laws. We need to look at the laws and
and the structures that we we have currently in place and
start enforcing some of those things.
So I think the conversation isn't just, you know, here's
what we think should be happening, but also, are you
protecting our rights and freedoms as you're supposed to?
And I wish that there was more openness on both sides of the
aisle to hear from parents. I think that Republicans right
now are doing a better job of that.
And again, that that national polling shows me that you've
got. I mean, I, you know, I'm happy
to send it to you and you guys can take a look at it.
We, you know, we have it up on the website, actually right now,
if people go to momsforliberty.org, back slash
or actually forward slash polling, excuse me, you can go
to that page and see that polling.
You know, you've got numbers of people coming together that are
saying schools are on the wrong track.
We don't want gender ideology taught in our schools or sexual
orientation. Us with our kids and and again
7030 issues where you're bringing people together who
disagree about abortion, for example, pro-choice, pro-life.
People that are coming together would agree about parental
rights issues. So I think it's just a matter of
time right now. I'd love to be able to sit down
with Bobby Kennedy and ask him about some of the questions that
American parents have regarding parental rights and education in
the future of our country, and hopefully at some point we'll
have that opportunity. We invited President Biden, but
we received no response from the White House.
That's weird. I wonder why they did that.
Do you think anybody is scared off from talking to you guys
about this recent sort of Nazi situation that went on and we'll
talk some Hitler? Because I did a whole podcast
after that happened and and just did hit work quotes because I
think they're they're relevant to this world.
Yeah, I mean it's interesting, you know one of the things that
we're told is that if we don't discuss history and study
history that it'll repeat itself.
And yet we find seem to find ourselves at this time in
America where there are a lot of people that don't want to talk
about history, if anyone. Dennis Prager spoke at the
summit and he said that if you are saying that that Hitler
quote was used by the chapter in support of Hitler, you're not
just lying, you are a liar. That is the truth.
We do not coparent with the government.
I said that when I was sitting on a school board.
I said that to the Superintendent who was trying to
create a medical committee where he was going to bring in doctors
who were going to make decisions for kids that we were all
supposed to follow. And I looked at them and I said
you don't understand. Like, even when I take my own
kid to the pediatrician, he can give me recommendations, but
it's still my choice as to whether or not I do those
things. So for you, Superintendent, to
tell me you're going to bring in doctors that I'm supposed to
listen to for my kids medical care, We don't coparent with the
government and we do have government schools.
It's not a slur. It it it, I don't mean it as an
insult. I just mean we have government
schools that teachers are government actors.
They do not have the right to free speech.
And so when you look in history at Mao and Stalin and Lenin and
Marx, and you look at the way that they wanted to use and did
use the education system to indoctrinate or program the
children to radically transform the country, that is what we
have happening in America right now.
Now, do we have genocide happening in America right now?
No, we do not. But it didn't start with
genocide, you know, so in in other places in history around
the globe. So it was a warning cry meant
and used by that chapter to wake people up and say, hey, look,
you know, President Biden saying they're not your children,
they're all of our children. And and you know, that type of
rhetoric, those types of statements are concerning and
should be concerning. And and then there were some
very there were some liars on Twitter and in other places,
including Gavin Newsom, the Lincoln Project, the DNC, David
French, Caitlin Flanagan. I mean, I could go on and on who
tried to somehow make it seem like we were people that
supported Hitler or were Nazis, and it was just absolutely
ridiculous craziness. I mean, just crazy.
And so, you know, the chapter immediately was like, wait, you
know, we didn't, we didn't mean to offend anyone.
Of course, this wasn't meant in that context.
And they tried to, you know, take steps to to they're just
nice moms. They just, you know, and add a
local little newsletter. They didn't think of any, you
know, and then you have it escalate to a national stage.
At which point, you know, I say I'm not throwing moms under the
bus. They didn't do anything wrong.
They don't support Hitler. None of us support Hitler.
We have Jewish members. And you know, you asked about
the L, GB, TQ stuff. We have Jewish members.
You know, we have Jewish funders.
How incredibly abusive and insulting for them to be
assaulted and be called Nazis. And Kyle, I've never seen so
many swastikas in my life as I have seen on Twitter.
Like Elon Musk said he has that I'm going to curse now so you
can do what you need to do with it, he said He has that Dick pic
bot that that stops. Did you see that him say that?
No, but it sounds right. Yeah, so somebody so libs of
TikTok got censored her, her accounts on Twitter got
censored, and she wanted to know why.
And he came back and said she had posted footage from a pride
parade where there were naked men riding around on bicycles
and their penises were out and children were seeing them at the
pride parades. And that's why libs of Tik Tok's
account was censored because she had shown that video.
So Elon's response back to her was we have a Dick pic bot.
And that's why I was like, Oh my gosh, perfect.
So I said, first of all, can we get those in real life?
Because we could use some of those for the parades.
And then the question becomes, like, I keep reporting all this
stuff on Twitter of like our mom's faces and they put
swastikas on their shirts or they change our logo and put
swastikas. Like the the people who don't
think anyone should be talking about Hitler are like spreading
Nazi propaganda everywhere. And yeah, what does that feel
like, being on the reception end of it?
Well, it's a lie. So I watched Tucker Carlson do
an interview, and he said that he was so funny.
He said every few years, every year, he gains some weight
because he likes Donuts or something.
And then he sees his friends, and his friends are always like,
oh man, you put on a few pounds. And he was like, and that hurts
my feelings because it's true I put on some weight, he said.
But when people call me racist or Nazi or transphobe or bigot,
he's like, that doesn't really hurt my feelings because I know
it's not true. So what does it feel like?
Well, I mean, I'm not going to lie.
When Gavin Newsom sent out an e-mail to all of California
where they heavily edited me, giving a speech and tried to
make it seem like I supported Hitler, like, yeah, it wasn't
fun. I mean, Gavin Newsom, if you're
watching, it's incredibly disingenuous, lying, nasty thing
to do, and I will never let you become president of the United
States if I have anything to do about it.
But I know it's not true, right? Our moms know it's not true.
So. You do get that sympathetic
reaction though, where your heart rate goes up and your eyes
narrow and feel like someone's fighting you.
It's crazy. But James Lindsay said if if
there's anything anyone watches from our summit watch, go to
YouTube, go to our YouTube channel, watch James, Lindsay,
Conceptual James talk about surviving A struggle session.
And a struggle session is meant to do 2 things.
It's meant to apply outside pressure to your organization.
Like they tried to do right with all the emails and the things,
and then it also they want to. They also want internal
pressure. They want to divide you
internally. And we were given this
incredible gift that we were able to have our summit right
after all this external pressure was coming.
So internally we were very much able to look at each other and
support each other and say, yeah, it was beautiful.
So how do you survive a struggle session?
You just don't quit. And we're not quitters, so we
will survive the struggle session.
What was the internal dialogue like when those pieces started
running, when people started speaking, When you get emails
going up and down California, what was the membership saying
in other chapters? Obviously not the one that
happened. I just How did they receive
that? Yeah, they immediately knew.
Of course it wasn't true. You know, they they would, I
think they would know if they were part of a Nazi
organization. There's not one shred of
evidence that anyone has been able to show like that.
You know, there's ever been any type of Hitler support happening
in the past 2 1/2 years. So it was pretty obvious to
everyone, Like, this is a joke. It's a lie, right?
They supported the chapter immediately, and there was just
a huge outpouring of support for that chapter amongst our moms.
They support and learn from each other every day.
So that was really heartwarming. You know, how do you deal with
that from a national level? You have people that tell you
don't apologize. That's giving in.
And then you're you have people telling you, you know, you
should apologize because it's never okay to use a Hitler
quote. I think Rabbi Menken at the
summit said, you know, only Jewish people are allowed to
quote Hitler. And and he said that black
people, he was speaking to Mark Robinson.
He said, you know, are allowed to say the N word and he was
trying to make a joke, but Mark Robinson was laughing at that.
He was the next speaker that was coming up.
And, you know, so there was kind of just this, you know, dialogue
about how do you handle this? I I think that most
disappointing thing was just how disingenuous some of the people
were when they engaged with it. But the other thing, Kyle, was,
you know, Jen Psaki, who is not a real journalist.
She's just a mouthpiece. But, you know, she did a piece
about Moms for Liberty. But you didn't see NBC pick it
up or a BC or CBS or any of the networks.
Nobody picked it up like it was actual like it was real news or
something that to be covered. So you know, I mean I don't know
who how could you ever prepare to handle anything like that.
I don't know when you're. Ready now you know it's coming.
Was there anybody on on that would otherwise agree with you
that surprised you with their reaction to that kind of
controversy that you'd assume would be sort of favorable to
your positions but didn't didn't align with you.
No, I've never met David French, but everybody tells me that he's
not a very good person or nice guy.
So they don't use that. They don't use that word.
They use a different word. But I won't say that right now.
No, not really. I mean, I, I was just
overwhelmed by the outpouring of support from the people that
have done work with our organization.
You know, we're we're pretty large, right?
We have 100 and I say you know, 120,000 active members.
This, this isn't an e-mail list that I'm talking about.
These are like real people who are actively involved and
engaged in their communities. So, you know, we've given a lot
of access to organizations and different groups to our chapters
over the past 2 1/2 years and media for that matter.
So I just was thankful that when the time came that they needed
to stand up and say who we really were, they were able to
do that honestly, right. You know, it wasn't us saying
can you please come and help to support us.
It was them saying, wait a second, this is not, you know,
this is not who these people are and this is disingenuous.
So no, you know, I just, we were thankful really.
It was a blessing. Can we can we talk about the FBI
and the DOJ for a minute? Sure.
So in October 21, there was a back and forth about the
National Association of School Boards went and made some
advocacy to the White House. The White House sounds like they
made some advocacy to the DOJ and the Attorney General came
out and said some things about parents protesting at school
boards and then the FBI took some action on it.
How did that affect your group and what do you think you guys
were as far as maybe a root cause or or a a secondary target
of that sort of operational work?
Well, I I think when when you have a situation where you have
parents that are upset about something in a school district,
shutting down conversation and shutting down citizen input is
not going to lead to any type of resolution.
Shutting people down and and not and silencing them is only going
to make them more upset and more concerned.
And that's exactly what the reaction was of school board
officials and other government officials around the country
during COVID. So our moms were coming out and
speaking at school board meetings and they were upset.
They were upset that their kids were being quarantined, healthy
quarantines left and right. I mean, I would watch them in my
own kids school district. You know, 50 kids at a high
school would be quarantined because some Department of
Health employee walked around with a ruler, A6 foot ruler, and
decided who was deemed close contact.
You're talking about healthy kids being quarantined 2 weeks
at a time, especially if you're in high school.
If you're a parent, you're a kid in high school.
You're training for different athletics and stuff.
You get quarantined 2 weeks. You know you miss the most
important track meet or swim meet of your life.
So it was devastating for these kids, right?
Parents were upset. They were coming and speaking at
school board meetings. There were many parents whose
masks were really harming kids. I would argue that masks harmed
every child. But masks harmed more, some kids
more more than others, I think. And I even saw that in my own
home. So yeah, our moms were out
speaking at school board meetings all over the country.
We were encouraging them to do that.
The National School Board Association, the the school
board members didn't know what to do.
They were in a state of panic because they were having people
coming and trying to force them to hold their authority and all
they wanted to do. And I speak from personal
experience because I watched my own school board members do it.
They just wanted to abdicate their authority to somebody
else, some experts, somebody that knew more than them,
whether that was the CDC or whether that was the Department
of Health. They just wanted to be able to
say, like, you know, oh, well, the recommendation is that we do
this and we're going to go with that recommendation.
But that's not the way that being an elected official works.
You have authority. You have to hold your authority
and you are responsible for making decisions.
That's what Governor DeSantis did when he started making
decisions in Florida once, you know, we started moving forward,
right. So the school board associations
no doubt went to the National School Board Association and
said, uh, oh, we've got a real problem here.
The parents are coming to the meetings and you know, they're
they want to talk and they get 3 minutes and our meetings are,
you know, running 8910 hours. That was happening in my own
school district, were there. Oh yeah, I've sat for citizen
input for hours for 10 hours at a time.
Do these jobs pay very much, by the way?
Being a school board member, they sometimes they pay,
sometimes they don't pay it all. In Florida, they get a salary
that I'm. I think that they should have to
pass a certification exam to be able to actually collect the
salary. So I'm working on that.
But in other places, no, you don't make any money at all for
doing it. Just.
Sitting there getting yelled at for free.
Yeah, but it's so important, right?
Like it's. Sure, sure.
No, you volunteered for it. So yeah.
So, you know, I think the NSBA they recognize.
Here's the thing, Kyle. I'll just break it down and and
really cut to the chase. Our education system is failing.
I mean, it's just failing. You can look at the name scores
from 2022. They're awful.
You can look at them from 2019. They weren't.
They were still really bad. And if you look at the increase
of spending in education in America, I have a chart.
I should have sent it to you so you could have put it up.
But if you look at the rise in education, you're talking about
now spending $850 billion in public education versus 2004
when we were spending, gosh, I want to look it up now.
So I get the exact number, but a huge, a huge increase.
I'm going to look it up because I know we're hold on one second.
That's fine. There is.
I mean, that goes to a question that I've always had, which is
that we seem to have more and more administration.
We have more and more costs, we're spending more and more on
education. We're seeing diminishing
results. I don't understand why that
continues to happen. I have an instinct, but I'm not
involved in it. And so, you know, the answer
from my house is like, why would we do that?
My wife is educated, and so am I.
My kids can learn pretty much everything from us up until they
get into calculus classes, which I I took five of those when I
was in college. So they're going to always be,
you know, less education than my wife and I who has.
She has a master's and I've got a bachelor's degree and a
million things. I studied everything.
So why am I sending it out if we can afford to keep them in?
And then the question is, what does it even cost for our mom to
go out and work outside of the house?
If you have young kids, it costs somebody else raising your kids
and putting their values on. I don't have time for that.
So, you know, the amount of money we're spending seems
crazy. You said 808 hundred million or
800 billion? No.
So in 2004, we spent $470 billion in education in America
and now we spend $840 billion in 2023.
And the math scores on the NAPE have gone from 279 down to 271.
We have only so just so that we're clear, we have 83% of
black students not reading proficiently, 79% of Hispanic
students and 58% of white students not reading
proficiently. And when you look at black
students, 4th grade reading scores, and This is why.
When, This is why I don't buy any of the equity, any of the
discussions. I just don't buy it for a second
because the unions have controlled the schools for years
and years and years. And if if the system is racist,
it's because of them to be, to be honest with you, you have 56%
of black students below basic. So that's not even a basic
reading level. It's criminal.
So parents are sending their kids to school thinking that
their kids are learning to read and they're not.
They're they're being turned into little social justice
warriors. So the education system is
failing and parents start asking questions.
Schools are closed. Now all of a sudden, school is
on their kitchen table and they're watching their child who
cannot hold a pencil, cannot write, write, cannot write.
Because now they're on the computer at school all day long.
Parents didn't realize that. They didn't realize how much
time your kid is actually spending on a computer.
They're doing math on a computer.
They're doing all their English language arts on a computer and
then the parents saw the device of materials too, right?
They started to see the anti American content, the the device
of ideology when it came to race and anti religious and things
that they were seeing in some of the curriculum.
And we're talking about like English language arts.
By the way. This is when we go back to
Ferrari and talk about generative themes being
introduced. So, you know, you think it's an
English language arts, you know, class.
But now all of a sudden they're talking about, you know, that
you have second graders doing a civil rights module for 9 weeks
where one of the vocabulary words is injustice.
They're six, You know, Do they understand that, right.
There's a math framework. No.
So there's a math framework in California.
That Max Eden from a EI, he's a fellow.
He writes for Newsweek as well. He just did a piece.
If you look this up again, Max Eden, he deconstructs the
California math framework and shows how the children aren't
really being given practicable skills in math anymore.
They're it's it's all an opportunity to introduce
generative themes to the students about a lot of
different things, like reparations in California, for
example. So it's just a it's a very
interesting place where we find ourselves all of a sudden the
school board members are like, holy crap, all the parents are
freaking out because they know the kids aren't learning and
it's overwhelming and they're coming to us and they're very
upset. What are we going to do?
And the union's answer, because I don't think it was just the
NSBAI think the unions were involved.
NEAFT Randi Weingarten Becky Pringle.
Like they're like, uh oh, we need to shut this down.
Parents are finding their voice and this is not going to be good
for us. We need to put them back in
their place. How are we going to do that?
Well, let's get the school board association to contact whoever.
Let's get them to, you know, say these parents are being unruly.
So then you've got this is how you get a mom who you know, yes
was at her school board meeting and it is upset and is saying,
you know, my son has been quarantined for 40 days.
We are coming for your seats. We are going to get you out of
office and telling school board members that.
And then the next day is making peanut butter and Jelly, and the
FBI calls her like. What did they say?
What was that interview like? Do you have any guns in your
home? Business Now what?
Do you have a history of mental health illness?
Sounds like you need a subpoena for that.
Keep going. What else?
We got a conversation about why the mom had gone to the school
board meeting. I want to be really fair and say
the FBI agent was lovely and told the mom, like, listen, you
know, this was given to us to call and investigate, but we
don't see anything here to be. Would it surprise you to know
that that agent also has discretion, though, like you'd
expect? Does that agent have discretion?
Of course. Everybody has discretion.
They have agency, do they not? So that's what.
Troubles me. Well, she this mom was told that
she was not the only person that this agent had been told needed
to be followed up on. So there was a stack of other
people that were supposed to be followed up on.
And meaning, from being a school board member, this is like a
local law enforcement issue. If you had a mom or dad, right,
That came to a school board meeting and was upset and said,
you know, Tiffany Justice, I hate you and I'm going to come
after you, that would be like the sheriff who would go and
have a conversation, right? Were these meetings being done
over the Internet? Is that the reason why that the
FBI was involved? No.
This this is were in person meetings.
So, you know, there's a differentiation between what we
would call in person threats or localized threats, which is like
you said, local law enforcement and what we call Interstate
threats, which means even if you're in the same state.
You touch wire, which is going to be phone, e-mail, text,
whatever, video chat. Those things are considered
Interstate because they use the means of Interstate even if
they're not from a different state.
And that's that's 18 USEAI think 875 the Interstate threat
clause. So that's the only FBI Nexus to
it. But I used to get these too.
I would just make a phone call to that person.
If they said, you know, I don't like the mayor and I'm coming
for him, I would call the person up because I don't want to drive
out there. That's a waste of my time.
Hey man, are you physically coming for the mayor?
And he'd be like, what are you talking about?
I said, you said something. It got reported to me.
I'm from the FBI. I'm calling you to ask you a
quick question. You know, you posted something
on social media. I watched it.
Tell me what you meant and the guy would go, no, I'm mad.
I'm going to run in the next election.
Very nice. Have a lovely life.
Like, goodbye closed. So the the agent does have the
discretion on how they handled this sort of thing.
But they knocked on on this mom's door.
It sounds like they called on the phone.
They called on the phone to speak to the mom and but at the
end of the conversation did say, you know we don't see any issue
here. Like we just want to be clear
with. You.
Yeah, it was a phone call. But but then the mom was also
told to not discuss the fact that she had been called, that
She should not share that. So the mom called me and you
know, I, I, you know, can the FBI tell you that?
Can the FBI say don't tell anyone that we called you?
You've read the 1st Amendment. What do you think?
Right. But but when you're a mom making
peanut butter and Jelly sandwiches right in in the
middle of America and and the FBI calls you, that's scary.
You know and and and it it it absolutely.
I've said from the beginning it it was meant to chill speech.
It did chill speech. We had to work hard to make sure
that people understood. Jeff Childers, Coffee and COVID
came to the, came to the summit we had in Tampa and he very
clearly said to the moms, you don't need to talk to the FBI.
If the FBI calls you, you just tell them, do you have a
subpoena? I want, I need to get a lawyer
you, he said. You do not talk to the FBI.
Like who would have ever thought that moms would have to do that.
That's crazy. I mean.
Yeah, Some of the stuff you talked about earlier, people
might call it very radical. You were making references to.
Now you're making references to to Nazi Germany.
And so people could say that's a very radical extreme to jump to
from what we're seeing. And then you're dealing with
this statement, talking about moms having the FBI call them up
and ask them about things they said in person for theoretically
a local school board meeting. Where's that jump come in for
you? Because it looks fairly clear to
me. I don't think it's.
I don't think it's illogical, but is that the mindset that
you're going with? We we just see there's a very
clear effort by the federal government to to weaponize all
of the different agencies against the American people who
are concerned about the federal government.
I mean, we are watching it happen in our lives every day.
And then you also just made excuses for the person that
called, though, because I happen to think that the majority of
FBI agents thought it was total baloney nonsense, like even this
mom was saying, the FBI agent said to her, like, no, I totally
understand why you would be upset that your child was
quarantined for 40 straight days out of school.
Like the, you know, I think the FBI agent seemed to know that
this was so outside of the bounds of what they would
normally be doing. Does it bother you that they
still made the phone call then? I don't, You know, to be honest
with you, Kyle, I didn't. I don't.
I don't know that they had the discretion as to whether or not
they personally were going to make that call.
I don't know. I lost the job over it.
I feel like they did. It's one of those it's it's I
think we all have this instinct to be so the so be so
accommodating of people for their individual circumstances.
And the only time that I don't think that's fair is when you
are a agent of the top end of that government structure.
There's a layer cake and the federal government is the
biggest hammer and you guys have seen it.
And as you said, it doesn't feel good.
And it's scared. I'm, I'm sure it scared this
woman, it was scary. And the other thing was that I
watched even school. I mean, I I don't know how many
school meetings I've watched now where you would see school board
members directing the law enforcement like that.
Blew my mind. You know, the law enforcement's
there to keep everyone safe, but they would use it.
I was almost like their personal security where?
Like get this person out of here, right?
Like we had a mom in Sarasota who said one of the school board
members names and the school board chair cut the mic and the
mom wouldn't stop talking. She kept talking at the
microphone. And then you saw the school
board chairs telling the sheriff's deputies to remove the
mother and there was one guy who stepped forward.
I still have the video who started to walk forward and the
other law enforcement agent put his arm out and just stopped
him. Like that's not our job, man.
Like, you know. But that is the danger when you
follow orders. They call it the superior
orders. Defense of a lot of people know
it is the Nuremberg defense. And that's really what I'm
getting at here. This is all happened before,
historically, people made a lot of excuses, I'm sure for guys
who started working for the Nazis because they just, you
know, they're just doing their job.
They're just going to get names of people that live in that
house. They're just finding out who the
people were that were at the meeting last night.
They're just. Making everybody wear a badge
because they're part of the Moms for Liberty.
You got to put that on your you got to put that on your door
now. So we know who you are because
you know we have to watch you. We don't want to, but we have
to. Where does that end?
I think we've seen it in a couple different societies,
yeah. And and I think that's the
reason why when you see see our moms calling it out, right.
There's a real effort to suppress that honest, that
honesty. And there's a real.
Get the hell out of me like I'm I'm.
I'm not a mom for liberty. I'm not a mom at all, actually,
but I am for liberty in general and any like, even people saying
things that we don't agree with. I in fact, I'd love to have
somebody who would debate you about this.
And I'll have them on the show, too.
And they can come and tell me all the counterpoints and I'll
let them have a fair shot because I'll listen to anybody.
I really will. You know, until you start
threatening violence or you start getting law enforcement
involved and that's what the that's what the government is.
It's a threat of violence. I think that's what everybody
instinctively knows. They don't maybe articulate it
that way. I think that there are things I
I keep saying I think, which I I don't want to say because we, I
know them to be true. We know them to be true, that
there is an enormous amount of of global influence happening
right now for people that are paying attention.
Joe Biden, the United States of America, just rejoin UNESCO as a
paying member. That's a bad thing.
Tell. Tell.
People. What that means so?
Well, it's complicated, but UNESCO, the United Nations,
UNESCO has something called the Sustainable Development Goals,
2030 Sustainable Development Goals.
You can go and look at them. There are 17 of them.
You will be really, really blown away at how the global influence
of the United Nations and the things that they want to see
happen across the globe are actually happening right now in
America. We we UNESCO and and is a part
of the United Nations that focuses on education.
And science and communication. And so they we haven't been a
paying member for some time. In fact, I think Obama actually
stopped. We stopped being a paying member
and then President Trump pulled this out completely I believe in
2018. Now President Biden has
reengaged with UNESCO. We actually pay.
I think that the vast majority of the budget for UNESCO, go
figure we probably had back payments of over $500 million
given to UNESCO to to rejoin right now.
Now, good. Oh yeah, that's exactly where
our money should be going, Right.
And what you're going to look and see is that a lot of the
things that are happening in American schools where you're
like, why is this happening? Why this gender identity
conversation that, like, wasn't happening at all, right.
Why is this happening? Well, you can look at the
Sustainable Development Goals and gender identity and gender
exclusivity is one of the goals. And then you can look at the
National Education Association that has curriculum that they
have specifically written in line with the 2030 Sustainable
Development Goals that's all online for anyone to go and look
up and see. And so I think that there
there's a lot of concern about what's happening in America
right now and how much control we actually have on the things
that are happening. That that, you know really you
would normally need Congress to act and and to be a part of and
to be making decisions about. But there the IT seems like our
elected officials have either abdicated their authority or you
know, are not. I mean I guess whether willfully
or not have abdicated their authority to a certain degree.
I think it's all there. There's so much more here.
And also I know you have a cofounder and you have some
other folks in your organization.
So what if what if we do this, what if we we may have to break
this into more pieces. I think there's so much more to
it. I think people will be
fascinated to hear this and I think that we're we're button up
on a time limit for Ryan here, our producer.
So I'm going to shut it at that point with probably infinite
more information. You guys have been doing this
for years now and there's obviously so many chapters.
If you if you get a panel of folks that want to come in and
and contribute, and if you have anybody that's a naysayer that
would like to to join us, I would have very much fun
moderating a discussion of people that can argue the other
side. I'll I'll try to dig one up too,
because I think that might be fun in a respectful way.
I'm here for it. I'd like to debate Randi
Weingarten. I've asked her several times.
That'd be fun. Yeah.
I've said nasty things about her, so I may not be as easy to
get her on, but I would do it if she would want to.
Come on, I appreciate that you're a fighter.
I appreciate that you've gotten involved in this thing.
I think so many of us have gotten into a place where nobody
expected to be. I'm sure you didn't set out in
your life to go and be doing interviews all day long.
You just want to raise your kiddos and who?
Who better than moms, though, than to fight for that, what
their kids are going to see in the in the world we're going to
have? Yeah, that's the really the
message, Kyle. It's it's it's really, if it's
not you, if not me, then who? Thomas Paine said.
If there must be trouble, let it come in my day so that my
children may live in peace. And I think that's where parents
are right now in America. There is a lot of trouble.
And we are uniquely positioned to head it off and to fight
back. And so we will try to do that.
And then we'll also raise a generation of patriots who are
going to also have to fight. Because when this is not going
to be turned around in just a few years, it is going to take a
lot of vigilance from all of us in order to get America going
back on the right track again. Fair enough.
All right, Plug some socials, Plug some places where people
can find your stuff. All these charts and graphs and
all your advocacy stuff. Go to momsforliberty.org big
map. There you can click on the map.
See if we have a chapter in your state, in your county.
If we don't, Click to start one. Maybe it's not you.
Maybe it's your aunt or your uncle or your sister or your
brother. Who knows?
Maybe you get to be the vice chair or the treasurer or
something like that. But Click to start a chapter.
That's really the best way that you can get involved right now.
You can follow us on Instagram on Twitter.
Moms, the number for Liberty You can follow me at 4 Tiffany
Justice Tina Deskovich at Tina Deskovich Just you know, check
out the website and feel free to to send us an e-mail, ask
questions. We are here to help.
I appreciate you being available to us for this long little sit
down and like I said, we'll do it again.
If you want to do a Twitter space, I'd be more than happy to
host one of those two. That's been kind of our fun
follow-ups where people can bring their questions.
Tiffany, thanks so much for being part of the show today.
Thank you, Kyle. I appreciate it.
It was fun. All right ladies and gentlemen,
that was our wrap up. That was the interview for
today. I do really want to say thanks
for sitting through it and I hope you enjoyed it.
I actually really enjoyed talking to Tiffany.
She is a lovely guest right now. I'll just let you know you've
been listening to the Kyle Sarafin Show.
It is streamed live from Liberty Hill, TX every morning now at
9:30 Eastern Time or at 8:30 in Texas, America.
We got to take a couple people. First one is you.
Thanks for sitting through and listening to our show.
Thanks for joining us in the morning on rumble.com/kyle
Serafin. I know a couple people had some
glitches today. It sounds like that is a rumble
thing that's not coming from us, but they are trying to grow the
platform. So be patient with them as they
look to supplant YouTube. We're really grateful that there
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I want to say thank you to a couple of our new monthly
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the subscribe button and then there's an opportunity I guess
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It's awesome. I didn't know about that.
I got a couple of you out there. It looks like 5 or 6 have done
that. And also FBI.
Pani Raid who has been following us for a while and is always
there in the live chat did the same thing.
So thanks to both of you. And then a couple rumble rants
both from Eric, Jason and from Critter 64 trying to support
this show guys, very much appreciated.
It really is not necessary, but if you want to do it, we won't
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So if you had one that you liked, one touches your fancy,
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But you can leave one of those reviews, like this one from
Jay-Z. Couple of Z's Couple of E's says
on .5 Stars. This is an informative podcast
that exposed the truth about the FBI.
We need to understand the truth about what happened at the Dolce
Base and respectfully honor those laws.
Godspeed, Sir. Dude definitely gets after it.
Digging in and getting wild with these bad boys again from Jayz.
I think that Jayz is someone that I know living up in the
great state of Montana. Might be a good friend of mine
who has a fascination with the Dolce Base folks.
One day we'll talk about the Dolce Base.
It's probably a Twitter space thing than anything else.
You probably heard me talk about it, but aliens in New Mexico
might make it for a fun thing. Maybe get Alex Jones to come to
one. Anyway, thanks for the five star
reviews. We do appreciate that.
And again, our show is really only possible because the hard
work and skill of the technical producer that you saw, Ryan
Maddow, he's the one out there taping these interviews and
making it happen. You can follow Ryan on Twitter.
His handle is Ryan Madda, MATTA Media, Ryan Madda Media and a
big thanks to Tiffany Justice for being our guest today.
It was a really a great conversation on my end.
I really enjoyed it. I walked away feeling good about
it. I hope you guys all enjoyed what
you heard. Don't forget to like this video
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