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Take a look behind the curtain 
with the real whistleblower in 

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American Patriot. 
Prepare to embrace the 

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uncomfortable truth, because 
this programme has no time for 

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comforting lies. 
Here is civil liberties 

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enthusiasm, Second Amendment 
defender and recovering FBI 

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agent Kyle Saraf. 
Hello my friends, and welcome to

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the Kyle Serafin Show. 
Today is Thursday, November the 

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16th, and as the intro just 
said, that's my father reading 

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it. 
This show has no time for 

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comforting lies. 
Today is going to be probably a 

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little bit heavier than some of 
ours. 

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Yesterday we had a little bit of
fun. 

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Today is going to be a serious 
topic with a serious person. 

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I don't always say that we have 
a special guest. 

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I think that's kind of silly 
that people always say that sort

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of thing. 
We really do have a lovely 

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person to talk to. 
Going to be talking to Jerry 

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Perna in just a moment and we're
going to be telling a story that

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is should trouble you. 
Many of you are going to be at 

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least a cursory familiarity with
what she's about. 

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You may have seen her in the new
movie Police State. 

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We're gonna run the trailer for 
one more time so you guys get 

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kind of a a prep for it. 
Before we get into the 

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interview, I want to get all the
sponsors and I want to say 

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thanks to all the people that 
support our show right up front 

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and right away. 
So we're going to do that right 

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now. 
If you guys don't mind. 

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We're going to front load it. 
Let's start talking about my 

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friends over at Patriot Coolers.
You can go to 

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patriotcoolers.com. 
Use promo code Kyle. 

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That saves you 10%. 
What do they sell? 

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They sell soft sided and hard 
sided coolers. 

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They sell tumblers like the one 
I've got sitting on my desk 

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right here. 
This one is already empty. 

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My 16 ounce. 
That's what I start with folks. 

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I start with the bigger one and 
then I burn through the 19 

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ounce. 
You can see the tumblers there. 

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Use my promo code. 
Kyle, KY Kelly gets 10% off. 

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Free shipping is always the case
after you get the $50 mark. 

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Pretty easy to do and they 
support the Kyle Serafin show. 

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They support veterans in this 
country who have mobility 

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issues. 
What's better than that? 

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A Houston based Texas company 
just like we are Texas based 

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says Patriot on it. 
You're not a Yeti you are not a 

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whatever other things are. 
I saw the other one in the back 

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of a truck the other day said 
lifetime. 

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You're not a lifetime you're a 
patriot. 

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Get a patriot. 
Cooler. 

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Do that. 
Let's also talk about four 

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patriots. 
We have a theme here, you guys 

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might recognise it. 
The four Patriots, the number 

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four patriots.com/kyle. 
Some emergency food and some 

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preparation ideas. 
If you guys want to prepare for 

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a pending disaster, this is how 
you can go do it. 

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Use our promo code, Kyle. 
You'll save money on all the 

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items that they have on there. 
Get yourself figured out. 

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Do not be one of those people 
that's looking around when 

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something goes wrong and you try
to figure out what happens in 

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the moment. 
If you fail to plan, you are in 

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fact planning to fail. 
Check out the Family Emergency 

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Supply bundle. 
You can check out their 

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emergency food. 
You should keep it with you 

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where you go so you have it. 
You got other options there for 

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power. 
You never know. 

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Coms, devices, water filtration,
all these kind of things. 

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The number four 
patriots.com/kyle, 

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fourpatriots.com/kyle. 
Let's do one more. 

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Let's think Michael and Dell, 
he's actually been really great.

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Send us a check really recently.
mypillow.com/kyle. 

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Kyle, at the end of it, 
mypillow.com/kyle. 

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Or just go to the website. 
Use my promo code. 

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Kyle, you get all the discounts 
you get from anybody else, but 

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you can support our show with it
and they do in fact send us 

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money. 
So we are very appreciative. 

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Michael Dell's a good guy, one 
of those funny people in the 

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world who has really turned his 
life around and managed to do 

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something pretty great. 
I know a lot of you guys know 

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he's been persecuted and 
prosecuted by the FBI. 

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They came and stole his phones 
and got into it with him. 

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Go check out his pillows, Check 
out his towels, Check out what 

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you're into. 
I'm going to get some of that 

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stuff sent over here. 
I need some new slippers. 

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I am in the market, so Christmas
is coming up. 

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Check it out. mypillow.com/kyle.
Kyle. 

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There it is. 
OK, we've run it as far as we 

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want to go. 
Let's get deep into this thing. 

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Like I said, a very special 
person. 

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Jerry Purna, She's going to tell
us her story. 

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I want to 1st. 
Just welcome you on. 

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Thanks for joining me. 
Jerry, I'm really glad to have 

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you on the show. 
Thank you for having me, Kyle. 

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Thanks for thanks for your 
patience. 

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Kind of waiting on us getting 
set up here. 

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I'm. 
I'm looking forward to hearing 

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this cause I think I have some 
questions that you might answer 

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in the way you answer some of 
the other questions. 

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But there's some specific things
about the story that I want to 

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know. 
I've never heard him discuss 

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before. 
So we're going to dig deep. 

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We'll take as long as it takes 
and as much time as you want to 

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give us. 
First of all, it was really nice

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seeing you the other day and 
Miralago with the police state 

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film. 
Tell us how you were approached 

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to go out on that and I'm going 
to get into who you are and some

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of the story that got you 
involved as well. 

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Well, Dinesh and I met a couple 
of months after Matt after 

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Matt's ordeal, and I had told 
him, I said if you ever decide 

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to do a documentary on this, I 
would gladly participate or 

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contribute anything you need 
from me. 

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And lo and behold, Dinesh 
reached out to me in the spring 

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and asked me if I would be 
willing to participate. 

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And that was the spring. 
So that came together pretty 

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quickly. 
I guess I didn't know what the, 

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the prep time on that was. 
Let's we're going to roll the 

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trailer. 
We're going to have you watch 

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it. 
And I know this is emotional for

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a lot of my my viewers. 
It's kind of emotional for me 

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and you because we both have 
different angles of this sort of

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story, but it's definitely 
impacted our life, the 

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weaponization that's gone on. 
And then we're going to hear 

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about you, we're going to hear 
about Matthew and we're going to

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hear about how that's changed 
dramatically. 

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I think probably the arc of your
life as well. 

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And let's let's do that real 
quick trailer so people get a 

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taste of it, so they can see who
you were in the movie, although 

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you look just the same, I think.
We having. 

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All that. 
Chief Division Council and DOJ 

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have approved a no knock breach.
We want the subject to be on 

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display doing the walk of shame,
full visual impact. 

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Any questions? 
Are we becoming a police state? 

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Government told American 
citizens they couldn't go to 

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church on Sunday for the first 
time in my life and say to 

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myself, am I gonna get a knock 
at the door, FPR war come to the

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door. 
Now the Patriot Act and FISA 

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were used against Donald. 
Trump These individuals have 

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commissioned the biggest 
propaganda play in U.S. history.

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They don't go after the people 
that rigged the election. 

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They go after the people that 
want to find out what the hell 

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happens. 
We don't need to have a crime. 

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What we need is a person to look
at and then we go find out what 

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crime you did. 
Our focus is shifting. 

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Our main priority as a Bureau is
going to be domestic terrorism 

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really paints anybody who's 
right of. 

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Centre If you're a pro life, 
pro, family, Catholic, they 

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define you as radical. 
These are. 

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Anti government. 
Afraid of a religion? 

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Violent extremists and they must
be dealt with. 

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We could do anything we want. 
It's really hard to watch that. 

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I want to start with who you 
are, Jerry, as a person. 

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Let's start back with that 
story. 

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And I know family is going to be
part of that. 

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So tell people where you're from
and where you grew up, if you 

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would. 
Well, I grew up in Pennsylvania,

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a small steel town in western 
PA. 

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I was there most of my life, and
about six years ago I moved to 

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Florida. 
I got tired of the politics in 

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Pennsylvania. 
I needed a change. 

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I needed a change of scenery. 
I needed sunshine and I moved to

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Florida. 
My family still resides there. 

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Um, I travel up there less often
than I used to and I am the aunt

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of Matthew Perna. 
Now let's talk about family a 

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little bit because that's I 
think, so relevant to this 

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story. 
You you mentioned that your 

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nephew is Matthew Perna. 
We're going to talk his story as

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we do it. 
I want to kind of get the 

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background of how your, your 
family works and maybe you could

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talk about the the home that you
grew up in and you know, are 

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you, was it a brother or sister 
that is the the father or the 

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the mother of Matthew that 
you're related to? 

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Just kind of that whole dynamic.
I as I said, I grew up in a 

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steel town and my dad worked in 
a steel mill, just like most 

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people's fathers did up there. 
I had four older brothers and 

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the youngest, the only girl 
Italian family, very close. 

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Everybody is still very close to
this day and we see each other 

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as much as we can. 
Both of my parents have passed 

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on, but my brothers and I have a
great relationship. 

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We have a slew of nephews and 
nieces. 

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We were not raised in a wealthy 
home by any stretch. 

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We were all taught to be hard 
workers. 

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We had to work for everything we
got. 

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All of us had jobs by the time 
we were 15 years old and my 

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brothers and all of their kids, 
I mean, we're instilled with the

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same values. 
We went to church on Sunday. 

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We were raised Catholic and. 
No one in my family had ever 

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gotten in any trouble of any 
kind. 

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Everybody held good jobs and has
done well in their life. 

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And what was your connection? 
What was your relationship like 

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with Matthew when he was growing
up? 

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I've seen some videos of him in 
the movie. 

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I think they play some which are
really pretty heart wrenching. 

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They look like my childhood. 
It looks like a lot of my 

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friends childhood kind of 
idyllic. 

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Maybe kind of talk about growing
up around all those nieces and 

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nephews. 
Well, Matthew is the son of my 

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oldest brother. 
My oldest brother is 10 years 

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older than I am, and I was very 
close to his wife, Matt's mom. 

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She was the sister I never had. 
So I was around Matt quite often

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and when he was growing up, 
probably more so than my other 

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nieces and nephews. 
Because of my relationship with 

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his mom was so close. 
Um, so Matt was just, he was 

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just this wonderful child and 
and so inquisitive, always 

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asking questions, always wanted 
to learn. 

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And he continued that throughout
his life. 

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He he studied everything. 
He was very intelligent as a 

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child. 
He had this fascination with the

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American flag at a very young 
age. 

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I don't know what it was, but 
every time he saw one, he would 

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point at it. 
If it was on television, he 

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00:09:23,280 --> 00:09:26,690
would point it out. 
And he liked wearing red 

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clothes. 
Writing blue clothes. 

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And it's funny because most of 
his baby pictures, you'll see 

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him wearing red, white and blue 
often. 

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And he grew up loving this 
country. 

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And again, he was raised with 
the same values that his father 

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and I were raised with. 
Had a job at a very early age, 

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went on to college and and was 
just a very hard worker. 

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What kind of interest did he 
have when he was in high school 

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and in college? 
Kind of, you know, what was he 

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interested in? 
And you know, what kind of 

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things did you see him spending 
his time during those? 

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00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:00,160
You know, I want to know what 
the people are behind the 

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00:10:00,170 --> 00:10:01,460
headlines more than anything 
else. 

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00:10:01,870 --> 00:10:04,860
Matt was Matt loved basketball. 
He was very tall. 

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00:10:04,870 --> 00:10:07,700
He loved playing basketball. 
He never played it like on a 

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organised college team or 
anything. 

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He played it in high school. 
He loved music. 

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We were all raised with music in
our house because my father 

228
00:10:16,210 --> 00:10:19,900
played piano and he taught all 
of us how to play piano. 

229
00:10:19,910 --> 00:10:22,780
And Matt's father excelled at 
it. 

230
00:10:23,590 --> 00:10:27,530
So much so that he got a degree 
in music and he instilled that 

231
00:10:27,540 --> 00:10:31,230
love of music into his kids. 
And Matt played piano as well as

232
00:10:31,300 --> 00:10:34,350
saxophone. 
But he had this. 

233
00:10:34,420 --> 00:10:38,330
He had this itch to travel. 
Matt loved to to travel to other

234
00:10:38,340 --> 00:10:43,430
places, and he did. 
He travelled the world and. 

235
00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:46,510
That was one of the things he 
loved the most. 

236
00:10:46,520 --> 00:10:49,150
He loved meeting other people 
from other cultures. 

237
00:10:49,160 --> 00:10:52,210
He loved learning about other 
cultures, trying their foods. 

238
00:10:52,970 --> 00:10:55,870
He was just a very diverse 
person. 

239
00:10:56,810 --> 00:10:59,060
Sounds like he probably was 
pretty open minded. 

240
00:10:59,070 --> 00:11:00,290
What kind of places did he go 
to? 

241
00:11:00,300 --> 00:11:02,630
What kind of experiences did he 
bring back and relate to you? 

242
00:11:03,820 --> 00:11:06,930
Matt liked to visit countries 
that most people didn't want to 

243
00:11:06,940 --> 00:11:08,890
visit. 
He visited Vietnam. 

244
00:11:08,940 --> 00:11:14,190
He went to India. 
He was in Peru, Thailand, South 

245
00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:17,410
Korea. 
He did make his way to Italy and

246
00:11:17,420 --> 00:11:21,370
Poland. 
But when he went to a town he 

247
00:11:21,380 --> 00:11:24,310
didn't like staying in a in a 
five star hotel, he likes 

248
00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:27,590
staying amongst the locals. 
He would rent A room or 

249
00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:31,710
something like an Airbnb where 
it was not the the most 

250
00:11:31,720 --> 00:11:34,490
expensive one. 
He wanted to be where the locals

251
00:11:34,500 --> 00:11:35,910
were. 
He wanted to get the true 

252
00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:38,340
experience. 
Everywhere he travelled and he 

253
00:11:38,350 --> 00:11:41,940
did just that. 
What year was Matthew born, you 

254
00:11:41,950 --> 00:11:48,940
know, or roughly within? 
Matthew says, see, 37, mid 80s, 

255
00:11:49,690 --> 00:11:53,080
eighties, mid 80s, OK. 
So he grew up and he's probably 

256
00:11:53,130 --> 00:11:55,930
was the age of my my younger 
brothers, sisters and things 

257
00:11:55,940 --> 00:11:57,030
like that. 
So I'm just trying to get people

258
00:11:57,040 --> 00:12:00,550
to contact the America that he 
grew up in and maybe the America

259
00:12:00,560 --> 00:12:02,290
that you grew up in. 
You can talk about that as well.

260
00:12:02,300 --> 00:12:04,480
Because I think that we have a 
very different country, 

261
00:12:04,690 --> 00:12:07,140
especially after just watching 
that trailer for Police State. 

262
00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:10,340
Then then I grew up in and then 
I imagine you grew up in. 

263
00:12:10,560 --> 00:12:11,870
We came from different parts of 
the country. 

264
00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:13,560
Maybe talk about the the view of
America. 

265
00:12:13,650 --> 00:12:15,300
He loved it. 
He wore the American flags. 

266
00:12:15,310 --> 00:12:17,060
I think I had some of those too,
to be honest with you. 

267
00:12:18,430 --> 00:12:20,310
I'm curious about how that sort 
of evolved. 

268
00:12:20,380 --> 00:12:23,430
But what was America like when 
he was a kid in your in your 

269
00:12:23,440 --> 00:12:25,290
recollection? 
I was just having this 

270
00:12:25,300 --> 00:12:27,530
conversation with somebody the 
other day and they were saying 

271
00:12:27,540 --> 00:12:29,530
don't you wish we can go back to
the 80s? 

272
00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:32,850
I do wish we can go back to the 
80s, because the 80s was born 

273
00:12:32,860 --> 00:12:35,160
before the Internet and social 
media started. 

274
00:12:36,740 --> 00:12:42,170
Life was much simpler than. 
Life was easier than and less 

275
00:12:42,180 --> 00:12:44,350
stressful. 
I think that with the 

276
00:12:44,360 --> 00:12:47,210
development of social media and 
the Internet. 

277
00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:51,650
It has definitely changed the 
course for the entire world, not

278
00:12:51,660 --> 00:12:55,630
just America, but it is made 
growing up much more difficult 

279
00:12:55,640 --> 00:12:58,890
and I'm thankful that I grew up 
at a time where we didn't have 

280
00:12:58,900 --> 00:13:03,250
that social bullying and social 
media bullying and things of 

281
00:13:03,260 --> 00:13:06,430
that nature and Matt grew up 
during that time as well. 

282
00:13:07,350 --> 00:13:12,820
Matt had a. 
He had a very soft heart when it

283
00:13:12,830 --> 00:13:17,700
came to people and I think part 
of this is because Matt's aunt 

284
00:13:17,710 --> 00:13:22,780
on his mother's side was 
severely mentally handicapped 

285
00:13:23,030 --> 00:13:26,450
severely. 
And Matt grew up with this aunt 

286
00:13:26,460 --> 00:13:30,240
and her name was Linda, her his 
aunt Linda, knowing that Aunt 

287
00:13:30,250 --> 00:13:35,460
Linda had disabilities and. 
He was very close to her and he 

288
00:13:35,470 --> 00:13:40,040
was very compassionate and I 
think that that moulded Matt in 

289
00:13:40,050 --> 00:13:45,920
many ways. 
And it it made him a much. 

290
00:13:46,730 --> 00:13:50,660
More loving, kind person. 
I believe that had an impact on 

291
00:13:50,670 --> 00:13:52,700
him. 
Was he an only child? 

292
00:13:52,710 --> 00:13:56,020
Did he have siblings? 
Yes, younger brother who likes 

293
00:13:56,030 --> 00:13:58,860
to keep his life private. 
That makes sense to me. 

294
00:13:59,030 --> 00:14:00,680
I wish some of us could keep our
lives private. 

295
00:14:00,690 --> 00:14:02,100
I know that's not an option 
anymore. 

296
00:14:02,370 --> 00:14:05,120
There is something about that 
analogue childhood. 

297
00:14:05,670 --> 00:14:08,080
It's it's so interesting. 
My wife and I continue to have 

298
00:14:08,090 --> 00:14:09,760
these conversations about 
wouldn't it be nice to be able 

299
00:14:09,770 --> 00:14:13,540
to go back before anti social 
media, before all this? 

300
00:14:13,610 --> 00:14:16,620
You know, followers and and 
tracking what you're up to and 

301
00:14:16,630 --> 00:14:19,420
before all the comments sections
and all the other things used to

302
00:14:19,430 --> 00:14:20,920
be that you have to say 
something to somebody's face. 

303
00:14:20,930 --> 00:14:23,560
And it turns out most people 
have probably not said very many

304
00:14:23,570 --> 00:14:25,550
nasty things to your face that 
they would say on on the 

305
00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:27,670
Internet, I have to imagine. 
At least that's my experience. 

306
00:14:28,180 --> 00:14:31,670
I would have to agree with that.
There are your keyboard warriors

307
00:14:31,780 --> 00:14:36,550
and they can be quite brutal. 
And yeah, talk about some of the

308
00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:38,520
ugliness you've seen out there, 
cause I know you get it, I know 

309
00:14:38,530 --> 00:14:40,240
I get it. 
Everybody gets a different taste

310
00:14:40,250 --> 00:14:41,620
of it, different segment of 
society. 

311
00:14:41,630 --> 00:14:42,870
Maybe kind of highlight some of 
the. 

312
00:14:43,590 --> 00:14:46,090
I do. 
I get a lot of that, and I get a

313
00:14:46,100 --> 00:14:49,820
lot of anonymous email sent to 
me with words that are just so 

314
00:14:49,870 --> 00:14:54,160
hateful and so obscene I can't 
even repeat them out loud. 

315
00:14:54,860 --> 00:14:59,910
And I, quite frankly, AM. 
More disheartened by the amount 

316
00:14:59,920 --> 00:15:03,930
of hate in our world than 
anything else. 

317
00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:07,590
Because, I mean, we're talking 
about I'm the survivor of a 

318
00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:11,430
family member who's gone, and 
yet you need, you feel the need 

319
00:15:11,500 --> 00:15:14,310
to. 
Put salt in my wounds. 

320
00:15:15,110 --> 00:15:18,600
I don't understand the level of 
hate that we have reached and I 

321
00:15:18,610 --> 00:15:21,560
don't know, maybe it is because 
they are keyboard warriors who 

322
00:15:21,570 --> 00:15:24,550
can say whatever they feel like 
without being exposed as to who 

323
00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:29,050
they are. 
But I I just, I wish we could go

324
00:15:29,060 --> 00:15:31,110
back to a time when that wasn't 
possible. 

325
00:15:31,730 --> 00:15:33,820
Yeah. 
I wonder why there's so much. 

326
00:15:33,830 --> 00:15:35,480
I think it's sort of impotent 
rage. 

327
00:15:35,490 --> 00:15:37,490
I just wonder if you have any 
reflection on it. 

328
00:15:37,500 --> 00:15:39,240
Because I I continually think 
about this. 

329
00:15:39,250 --> 00:15:39,960
Why? 
Why are they so? 

330
00:15:39,970 --> 00:15:42,280
Why are people so angry? 
They didn't know you. 

331
00:15:42,370 --> 00:15:45,140
They didn't know Matthew. 
He didn't affect their lives in 

332
00:15:45,150 --> 00:15:47,620
any meaningful way. 
Like they never came across him.

333
00:15:47,710 --> 00:15:51,380
How is it that these people are 
so furious? 

334
00:15:51,390 --> 00:15:54,880
It seems that they would send 
some of the most nasty bile to 

335
00:15:54,890 --> 00:15:56,400
someone they've never met. 
Like what? 

336
00:15:56,410 --> 00:15:57,580
What would? 
What would make that happen? 

337
00:15:58,310 --> 00:16:00,280
To be honest with you, I'm gonna
just say it. 

338
00:16:00,290 --> 00:16:01,640
I think. 
I think some of them are 

339
00:16:01,650 --> 00:16:04,060
soulless. 
I really do. 

340
00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:06,680
We have reached a point where 
God is not important in many 

341
00:16:06,690 --> 00:16:09,620
lives of many people. 
Many people are being raised 

342
00:16:09,630 --> 00:16:11,460
without God in their life at 
all. 

343
00:16:11,730 --> 00:16:14,000
You have a generation of 
children that don't know why we 

344
00:16:14,010 --> 00:16:17,620
celebrate Christmas. 
And I think that a lot of this 

345
00:16:17,730 --> 00:16:20,800
is is the reason people are the 
way they are. 

346
00:16:20,870 --> 00:16:23,740
They have No Fear of God because
they don't believe in Him 

347
00:16:23,750 --> 00:16:27,210
anyway. 
So I think, I think that they 

348
00:16:27,220 --> 00:16:30,830
don't feel that there will be 
any repercussions for their 

349
00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:33,510
actions and they feel that 
because they're doing them 

350
00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:37,660
anonymously that they don't, 
they aren't as impactful. 

351
00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:44,840
On themselves are they though. 
I don't know. 

352
00:16:44,850 --> 00:16:46,500
I think they are. 
I think they're going to pay a 

353
00:16:46,510 --> 00:16:49,160
price someday. 
They're going to be surprised. 

354
00:16:50,350 --> 00:16:52,280
You mentioned growing up in a 
Catholic family. 

355
00:16:52,290 --> 00:16:55,360
I have the same experience. 
You mentioned people not having 

356
00:16:55,370 --> 00:16:57,180
God in their life, which I think
I I see that as well. 

357
00:16:57,190 --> 00:16:58,820
I think you're correct in that 
analysis. 

358
00:16:59,890 --> 00:17:02,630
Did Matthew have a faith that he
practised and and if So, what 

359
00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:05,180
was that like? 
Yes, we were all, like I said, 

360
00:17:05,190 --> 00:17:07,500
we were all raised in a Catholic
upbringing. 

361
00:17:07,569 --> 00:17:11,520
But Matt, like myself, we we 
left the Catholic religion. 

362
00:17:12,130 --> 00:17:16,000
We just weren't in agreement 
with a lot of the rituals and 

363
00:17:16,010 --> 00:17:19,200
things that take place and the 
cover ups within the Catholic 

364
00:17:19,210 --> 00:17:21,920
Church we became quite disgusted
with. 

365
00:17:22,530 --> 00:17:24,700
So Matt was. 
Born again Christian, as am I, 

366
00:17:25,170 --> 00:17:30,110
and we went to non 
denominational churches, but we 

367
00:17:30,120 --> 00:17:33,080
were raised to go to church on 
Sunday, You know, we were raised

368
00:17:33,090 --> 00:17:35,130
with values. 
We were raised to pray before we

369
00:17:35,140 --> 00:17:38,510
ate. 
And Matt carried that throughout

370
00:17:38,520 --> 00:17:41,580
his life. 
And he had a Bible that I don't 

371
00:17:41,590 --> 00:17:44,940
think there's one page in Matt's
Bible that isn't written on. 

372
00:17:45,010 --> 00:17:49,180
He put notations on every page. 
I don't know how many times Matt

373
00:17:49,190 --> 00:17:53,370
bread through the Bible. 
But I know it was several times.

374
00:17:54,350 --> 00:17:57,530
And he he had a close walk with 
God. 

375
00:17:59,470 --> 00:18:02,320
Let's talk about how the he was 
travelling. 

376
00:18:02,330 --> 00:18:04,420
He got out of college. 
What did he do for work when he 

377
00:18:04,430 --> 00:18:07,080
got out of college? 
He took a regular nine to five 

378
00:18:07,090 --> 00:18:11,980
job in Toms River, NJ, working 
for a company and it was an 

379
00:18:11,990 --> 00:18:17,410
office job and I just, I knew. 
It was not something Matt wanted

380
00:18:17,420 --> 00:18:19,040
to do. 
Matt was a free spirit. 

381
00:18:19,050 --> 00:18:22,150
He didn't belong in an office, 
but nonetheless he stayed with 

382
00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:24,690
this company for a couple of 
years and they had an opening in

383
00:18:24,700 --> 00:18:28,740
their office in Pittsburgh and 
he decided to take the office 

384
00:18:28,790 --> 00:18:31,120
job in Pittsburgh and he moved 
back that way. 

385
00:18:31,130 --> 00:18:35,190
This way he was closer to family
and he worked there for a little

386
00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:38,940
while and there were going to be
some cut offs, some layoffs in 

387
00:18:38,950 --> 00:18:44,380
the job, in the in the company. 
And Matt had befriended a black 

388
00:18:44,390 --> 00:18:46,980
gentleman that worked in the 
warehouse at the company. 

389
00:18:48,120 --> 00:18:51,050
And when it was announced that 
there were gonna be layoffs, he 

390
00:18:51,060 --> 00:18:53,880
found out that this this person 
was going to lose his job. 

391
00:18:54,790 --> 00:18:59,400
And Matt just did not like 
working for a nine to five type 

392
00:18:59,410 --> 00:19:01,520
of job. 
He did not like that atmosphere.

393
00:19:01,530 --> 00:19:05,220
It wasn't him. 
And he went to his boss and he 

394
00:19:05,230 --> 00:19:09,270
said if you could. 
Get rid of me, but keep the guy 

395
00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:11,410
in the warehouse. 
Would you do it? 

396
00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:14,140
And he says, well, we we just 
have to make cutbacks, you know,

397
00:19:14,150 --> 00:19:16,330
and. 
Wherever we make them, you know 

398
00:19:16,340 --> 00:19:18,750
it doesn't, it doesn't matter as
long as we show that we've cut 

399
00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:22,010
back some, some expenses. 
So, Matt? 

400
00:19:22,810 --> 00:19:26,220
Took the firing and the guy in 
the warehouse got to keep his 

401
00:19:26,230 --> 00:19:28,020
job. 
Wow. 

402
00:19:28,030 --> 00:19:32,050
And I I was. 
I knew that from that point Matt

403
00:19:32,060 --> 00:19:34,290
was going to do great things 
because now he was able to 

404
00:19:34,300 --> 00:19:38,100
spread his wings. 
And he got involved in in some 

405
00:19:38,110 --> 00:19:43,420
different holistic type products
and he started marketing those 

406
00:19:43,430 --> 00:19:46,770
and he excelled in it. 
But. 

407
00:19:47,730 --> 00:19:52,140
Prior to really taking off in 
that, he had heard about this 

408
00:19:52,150 --> 00:19:54,740
opportunity to teach English in 
a foreign country. 

409
00:19:55,850 --> 00:19:59,960
And he he applied and he went to
work in Thailand, and he taught 

410
00:19:59,970 --> 00:20:03,790
English in Thailand for a year 
to elementary school children. 

411
00:20:04,930 --> 00:20:07,950
And he loved it. 
He loved it. 

412
00:20:08,260 --> 00:20:10,850
And when that contract was over,
he applied for another. 

413
00:20:10,860 --> 00:20:13,430
And he worked in South Korea 
doing the same thing. 

414
00:20:14,230 --> 00:20:20,680
And Matt would use his weekends 
to explore the country or or 

415
00:20:20,690 --> 00:20:25,660
breaks, to go to neighbouring 
countries and learn the culture,

416
00:20:25,710 --> 00:20:28,310
learn the language. 
He knew several languages, 

417
00:20:28,430 --> 00:20:31,800
travelling as much as he did. 
He wanted to go to Italy to meet

418
00:20:31,810 --> 00:20:35,450
our family in Italy, so he took 
a course in in Italian. 

419
00:20:35,460 --> 00:20:37,960
And he was speaking fluent 
Italian, so when he went to 

420
00:20:37,970 --> 00:20:40,060
Italy he could speak to our 
family. 

421
00:20:40,190 --> 00:20:45,420
He was just brilliant. 
And so when he was in Korea 

422
00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:50,060
teaching it, we got news that 
his mom had gotten leukaemia. 

423
00:20:51,370 --> 00:20:55,370
And I texted him and I told him,
I said, Matt, I think you need 

424
00:20:55,380 --> 00:20:59,210
to come home. 
So Matt came home and he dove 

425
00:20:59,220 --> 00:21:03,480
back into his holistic medicinal
cures. 

426
00:21:03,550 --> 00:21:06,480
And he wanted to help his mom 
get through this. 

427
00:21:06,690 --> 00:21:12,340
And he researched everything and
he found out about alkaline 

428
00:21:12,350 --> 00:21:15,630
water. 
Alkaline water being health the 

429
00:21:15,670 --> 00:21:18,340
the health benefits of alkaline 
water, especially to someone 

430
00:21:18,350 --> 00:21:22,830
with cancer. 
And Matt purchased this congin 

431
00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:28,370
water filtration machine for his
mom and he had her drinking this

432
00:21:28,380 --> 00:21:31,110
water. 
Well, this led to other things. 

433
00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:35,050
Matt found out the benefits of 
drinking alkaline water and he 

434
00:21:35,060 --> 00:21:36,950
started selling the machines 
himself. 

435
00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:40,380
Well, they were expensive and 
not everybody could afford one. 

436
00:21:41,250 --> 00:21:44,500
But he knew there were people 
that could benefit from drinking

437
00:21:44,510 --> 00:21:47,120
this alkaline water. 
So he calls me one day, he says.

438
00:21:47,130 --> 00:21:52,520
Aunt Jerry, he says I need to 
get these BPA free containers 

439
00:21:52,590 --> 00:21:54,740
for water. 
And he said, have you seen any 

440
00:21:54,750 --> 00:21:56,360
anywhere? 
So I'm telling him, well let me 

441
00:21:56,370 --> 00:21:58,120
look when I'm out, I'll make 
sure I'll let you know. 

442
00:21:58,130 --> 00:22:01,390
So everywhere I went, if I saw 
them, I would tell them about 

443
00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:02,520
them. 
And I finally said, Matt, what 

444
00:22:02,530 --> 00:22:04,030
are you doing with all these 
containers? 

445
00:22:04,700 --> 00:22:06,770
He said, well, there's people 
that can benefit from this 

446
00:22:06,780 --> 00:22:08,950
water, but they can't afford the
machine. 

447
00:22:09,340 --> 00:22:13,030
So I'm using my machine and I'm 
filling up these containers and 

448
00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:15,090
I'm delivering the water to 
their house. 

449
00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:18,530
I said you're selling water, he 
said. 

450
00:22:18,540 --> 00:22:20,750
No, Aunt Jerry, I'm just giving 
it to them. 

451
00:22:20,900 --> 00:22:22,810
They can use it. 
They need this water. 

452
00:22:22,820 --> 00:22:26,210
It's going to help them. 
That's the type of person he 

453
00:22:26,220 --> 00:22:29,420
was. 
And he was into CBD oil. 

454
00:22:29,430 --> 00:22:33,800
He sold for hemp works. 
And I mean he did quite well. 

455
00:22:34,250 --> 00:22:37,800
He did not believe in the modern
medicines that the 

456
00:22:37,810 --> 00:22:41,780
pharmaceutical companies push. 
He did not believe in vaccines. 

457
00:22:42,110 --> 00:22:45,120
He did not believe in 
chemotherapy as much as he 

458
00:22:45,180 --> 00:22:49,980
wanted his mom to avoid that 
route, she didn't. 

459
00:22:50,750 --> 00:22:54,360
And he watched her deteriorate. 
He watched her body just 

460
00:22:54,370 --> 00:22:57,500
deteriorate, but he did his 
best. 

461
00:22:57,550 --> 00:23:00,620
He did to help her as much as he
could to get through it. 

462
00:23:00,950 --> 00:23:03,780
And Matt never had health 
insurance. 

463
00:23:03,970 --> 00:23:07,810
He never believed that he would 
go to a hospital or a doctor for

464
00:23:07,820 --> 00:23:09,880
anything and he never did. 
He was quite healthy. 

465
00:23:11,580 --> 00:23:17,340
Yeah, but that's, you know. 
And I think that's the question 

466
00:23:17,350 --> 00:23:20,250
so many people, myself included,
I, I come from this sort of 

467
00:23:20,260 --> 00:23:22,370
investigator background where 
I'm always like what's the story

468
00:23:22,380 --> 00:23:23,940
there? 
And when I heard kind of Brandon

469
00:23:23,950 --> 00:23:27,330
Straka, who will talk about in a
little bit and was sitting on a 

470
00:23:27,340 --> 00:23:29,210
panel with you in front of some 
members of Congress. 

471
00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:31,770
He answered it very briefly for 
me what it was. 

472
00:23:31,780 --> 00:23:33,070
And so I kind of knew where that
would go. 

473
00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:35,310
But I think a lot of people 
would look, they look, why is 

474
00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:37,430
this aunt the one who's out 
there speaking on his behalf? 

475
00:23:37,500 --> 00:23:39,470
And that's the story. 
The story is that his mother 

476
00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:42,030
passed away and and she was your
dear friend. 

477
00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:44,170
It sounds like she was very 
close. 

478
00:23:44,180 --> 00:23:46,160
Like I said, she was a sister I 
never had. 

479
00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:49,190
She had come through a bone 
marrow transplant. 

480
00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:52,030
She was doing great. 
She was down to only having to 

481
00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:55,230
go in to have her blood work 
done every two weeks just to 

482
00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:58,290
check her levels. 
It was on a Sunday. 

483
00:23:58,340 --> 00:24:02,150
I was on the couch with her 
watching movies at her house and

484
00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:04,990
she told me she had a doctor's 
appointment on Tuesday. 

485
00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:10,370
No, Monday morning. 
And she went and it was supposed

486
00:24:10,380 --> 00:24:13,300
to be an ice storm that day. 
And they got a late start and 

487
00:24:13,310 --> 00:24:14,970
the appointment was in 
Pittsburgh. 

488
00:24:15,340 --> 00:24:17,610
So they told my brother, you 
know what, just leave her here 

489
00:24:17,620 --> 00:24:20,220
overnight because we don't want 
you driving home in this ice 

490
00:24:20,300 --> 00:24:22,760
form later on and pick her up in
the morning. 

491
00:24:22,990 --> 00:24:25,410
So my brother went home in the 
morning. 

492
00:24:25,420 --> 00:24:28,240
He called down to tell his wife 
that he was on his way to get 

493
00:24:28,250 --> 00:24:30,780
her and she didn't answer the 
phone in her room. 

494
00:24:31,450 --> 00:24:35,240
And he called again and the 
doctor answered the phone and he

495
00:24:35,250 --> 00:24:37,440
told my brother, he said I'm 
sorry we're we're having some 

496
00:24:37,450 --> 00:24:39,040
issues here. 
Your wife is having trouble 

497
00:24:39,050 --> 00:24:41,320
breathing. 
We'll talk more when you get 

498
00:24:41,330 --> 00:24:42,370
here. 
And he hung up on him. 

499
00:24:43,270 --> 00:24:46,620
So my brother and Matt and 
Matt's brother, they jumped in 

500
00:24:46,630 --> 00:24:48,500
the car. 
They drove down to Pittsburgh 

501
00:24:48,770 --> 00:24:52,320
and he calls me on the phone and
he, I was working at my shop and

502
00:24:52,330 --> 00:24:55,040
he says we have a problem. 
I said what's going on? 

503
00:24:55,050 --> 00:24:57,040
He said they want to put her on 
a ventilator. 

504
00:24:57,960 --> 00:24:59,650
I said a ventilator. 
What are you talking about? 

505
00:24:59,660 --> 00:25:02,050
I was just watching TV with her 
on your couch yesterday. 

506
00:25:02,060 --> 00:25:05,710
What's going on? 
And um, they thought she had 

507
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:09,320
contacted, contacted him. 
Pneumonia, I said. 

508
00:25:09,330 --> 00:25:12,490
This is impossible, and I said, 
what do you need me to do? 

509
00:25:12,500 --> 00:25:15,710
He said I need you here with me.
So me and two of my brothers 

510
00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:18,570
jumped in the car in the middle 
of an ice storm that came later 

511
00:25:18,580 --> 00:25:22,840
that day. 
And we drove to Pittsburgh and 

512
00:25:22,910 --> 00:25:26,940
we walked in and there was my 
sister in law laying on a bed 

513
00:25:26,950 --> 00:25:29,940
with 15 tubes coming out of her,
including a ventilator. 

514
00:25:30,650 --> 00:25:34,030
My brother was just sobbing. 
My my nephews are sitting on the

515
00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:35,790
floor, just didn't know what to 
do. 

516
00:25:36,580 --> 00:25:39,930
And here we later found out that
she had been given bad blood. 

517
00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:41,630
There was a bacteria in the 
blood. 

518
00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:45,100
It gave her a blood infection 
and she died that night. 

519
00:25:45,860 --> 00:25:47,400
Wow. 
And we couldn't believe it. 

520
00:25:48,090 --> 00:25:50,780
And everything that Matt had 
felt about the Pharmaceutical 

521
00:25:50,790 --> 00:25:54,660
industry and the hospitals and 
the doctors came true. 

522
00:25:54,930 --> 00:25:57,910
It was true. 
And he blamed them completely 

523
00:25:58,690 --> 00:26:01,180
for his mom's death. 
Yeah, I can. 

524
00:26:01,190 --> 00:26:04,480
Imagine that there's so many 
instances of medical 

525
00:26:04,490 --> 00:26:07,300
malpractice, malfeasance and 
mistakes that go on in this 

526
00:26:07,310 --> 00:26:09,590
country and I think a lot of 
people don't realise how many 

527
00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:12,320
they are. 
But your story is one of of of 

528
00:26:12,330 --> 00:26:14,570
500 + 1000. 
I think if if the numbers are 

529
00:26:14,580 --> 00:26:16,540
correct, I mean it's one of the 
single biggest causes of death, 

530
00:26:16,550 --> 00:26:20,400
is just accidental bad treatment
in traditional, what we call 

531
00:26:20,410 --> 00:26:22,000
traditional medicine now, but 
it's really just western 

532
00:26:22,010 --> 00:26:23,830
medicine. 
I think a lot of people are 

533
00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:24,980
starting to open their eyes up 
to that. 

534
00:26:24,990 --> 00:26:26,960
What year did this happen? 
If you don't mind me asking, 

535
00:26:28,130 --> 00:26:31,430
that was eight years ago. 
Nine years ago. 

536
00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:35,410
OK, Yeah. 
And and I wanted to to dive back

537
00:26:35,420 --> 00:26:37,650
in you when when you said that 
Matthew was overseas and he was 

538
00:26:37,660 --> 00:26:39,780
teaching English which sounds 
like a wonderful experience for 

539
00:26:39,790 --> 00:26:43,340
somebody to to be involved in. 
Were you in contact with him 

540
00:26:43,350 --> 00:26:44,950
when he was overseas? 
Would he call you and do 

541
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:47,180
Facetimes or or Skype or any of 
those things? 

542
00:26:47,490 --> 00:26:50,600
We would do texting and we kept 
in touch on social media, on 

543
00:26:50,610 --> 00:26:53,520
Facebook, and Matt sent 
postcards. 

544
00:26:53,610 --> 00:26:58,450
Matt sent in his lifetime, 
thousands of postcards. 

545
00:26:58,650 --> 00:27:01,400
And I don't mean a type of 
postcard where you get and you 

546
00:27:01,410 --> 00:27:03,700
say, oh, having a great time, 
wish you were here. 

547
00:27:03,810 --> 00:27:09,070
No, he sent beautifully written 
postcards to give you that 

548
00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:11,830
feeling, like you were there 
with him, experiencing the 

549
00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:15,030
things he was experiencing. 
He belonged to some kind of an 

550
00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:20,510
online postcard club where you 
were given four names a week to 

551
00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:24,170
send a postcard, and in turn 
your name was given to 4 

552
00:27:24,180 --> 00:27:27,110
strangers somewhere in the world
and you would receive postcards.

553
00:27:27,380 --> 00:27:30,470
So this got Matt on this 
postcard kick, and he sent 

554
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:33,990
postcards to everybody he knew. 
And I'm still getting people 

555
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:37,090
sending me pictures of the 
postcards that they had received

556
00:27:37,100 --> 00:27:38,710
from that at one time or 
another. 

557
00:27:39,350 --> 00:27:41,320
That's a really special. 
Gift to be able to still have. 

558
00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:45,250
Are. 
This is not someone who. 

559
00:27:46,330 --> 00:27:49,110
Fits into the profile that most 
people would think of as the 

560
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:51,720
we're hearing over and over the 
dehumanising language towards 

561
00:27:51,730 --> 00:27:54,450
people who supported President 
Trump the maggots and people are

562
00:27:54,460 --> 00:27:56,630
saying things like MAGA 
extremists and all these ugly 

563
00:27:56,640 --> 00:27:58,710
things. 
I I wanted to dig into the story

564
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:00,130
because I know there was so much
more there. 

565
00:28:00,140 --> 00:28:02,130
I know what a kind person you 
are since we've met a couple 

566
00:28:02,140 --> 00:28:04,370
times in person and how much 
this moved you. 

567
00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:06,450
So I appreciate you sharing, 
sharing some of that. 

568
00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:10,230
Did his how did his mother's 
death affect his outlook on 

569
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:11,790
life? 
You you just said that he didn't

570
00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:14,530
like the what happened in the 
hospital system, but I'm curious

571
00:28:14,540 --> 00:28:16,290
if that changed his positivity 
at all. 

572
00:28:17,130 --> 00:28:19,280
It changed a lot of things for 
him. 

573
00:28:20,090 --> 00:28:25,200
His father has Parkinson's and 
you know, of course he he had 

574
00:28:25,210 --> 00:28:28,280
just lost his wife. 
It was, it was devastating. 

575
00:28:28,530 --> 00:28:32,040
And Matt had decided at that 
point that he was going to stay 

576
00:28:32,050 --> 00:28:34,520
close to home. 
He wasn't going to work abroad 

577
00:28:34,530 --> 00:28:36,900
anymore. 
It changed the entire course of 

578
00:28:36,910 --> 00:28:39,680
the rest of his life. 
He didn't want his father to be 

579
00:28:39,690 --> 00:28:42,280
by himself because his brother 
already worked in another part 

580
00:28:42,290 --> 00:28:45,020
of the country. 
And you know, he didn't expect 

581
00:28:45,030 --> 00:28:48,470
him to give up his job and move 
back to this decrepit steel 

582
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:52,450
town, former steel town. 
So Matt decided he would stay 

583
00:28:52,460 --> 00:28:56,690
where he was at and he would 
somehow try to expand his 

584
00:28:56,700 --> 00:28:58,110
business. 
And he did. 

585
00:28:58,160 --> 00:28:59,990
Like I said, he did quite well 
at it. 

586
00:29:01,790 --> 00:29:05,400
But he wanted to be there for 
his dad, and he was. 

587
00:29:05,530 --> 00:29:11,170
And he's not the typical January
6th story that the media likes 

588
00:29:11,180 --> 00:29:13,870
to portray. 
He was the exact opposite. 

589
00:29:14,540 --> 00:29:18,630
He wasn't a political person. 
He did manage to get a 

590
00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:21,600
networking group started in this
small town. 

591
00:29:21,610 --> 00:29:24,190
You have to understand this town
is very depressed. 

592
00:29:24,460 --> 00:29:27,710
Businesses have shut down empty 
buildings everywhere. 

593
00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:30,630
Since the steel industry is no 
longer their primary source of 

594
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:34,110
income, there really isn't a lot
to keep anybody there. 

595
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:37,300
The kids graduating high school 
and going off to college don't 

596
00:29:37,310 --> 00:29:41,960
come back to live there. 
So it was kind of it was kind of

597
00:29:41,970 --> 00:29:45,080
sad that Matt had to go back and
live in this town, but he just 

598
00:29:45,090 --> 00:29:47,410
felt like he needed to be there 
for his dad. 

599
00:29:47,850 --> 00:29:51,930
And he was up until, of course, 
January 6. 

600
00:29:52,660 --> 00:29:54,730
Yep, as we're. 
Hearing the story, I'm I'm 

601
00:29:54,740 --> 00:29:57,770
curious, was there any romantic 
involvement in his life over the

602
00:29:57,860 --> 00:29:59,790
that time that you could speak 
about? 

603
00:30:00,450 --> 00:30:01,940
He did. 
He Matt had different 

604
00:30:01,950 --> 00:30:03,620
girlfriends. 
He had a girlfriend in Korea 

605
00:30:03,630 --> 00:30:07,160
that she wanted to get married a
little too, too, too more. 

606
00:30:07,170 --> 00:30:09,860
Much more than he did. 
So that one didn't work out. 

607
00:30:09,870 --> 00:30:14,340
And then he had a girlfriend in 
Pennsylvania, but up until 

608
00:30:14,350 --> 00:30:18,760
January 6 and then on when all 
of that went down, she broke up 

609
00:30:18,770 --> 00:30:21,500
with him and he and he was quite
devastated by that. 

610
00:30:22,130 --> 00:30:26,400
She was definitely not on the 
same playing field as he was 

611
00:30:26,410 --> 00:30:29,180
politically. 
And it was, it caused a clash in

612
00:30:29,190 --> 00:30:32,920
the relationship. 
And then he met another girl 

613
00:30:33,290 --> 00:30:37,460
online in Florida, actually. 
And they were, they were seeing 

614
00:30:37,470 --> 00:30:41,570
each other. 
Often, you know, through through

615
00:30:41,580 --> 00:30:46,490
travelling back and forth, but 
he he wanted to get January 6th 

616
00:30:46,500 --> 00:30:50,580
and this mess out of the out of 
the way before he could fully 

617
00:30:50,590 --> 00:30:52,410
commit to her. 
I think so. 

618
00:30:52,420 --> 00:30:54,460
Many people that dealt with that
and have it hanging over their 

619
00:30:54,470 --> 00:30:57,060
head, even to this day, it's 
like their life has been put on 

620
00:30:57,070 --> 00:31:01,420
pause and it didn't really 
change from January 7th, 2021. 

621
00:31:01,490 --> 00:31:03,750
It's just been a perpetual 
waiting cycle. 

622
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:05,510
Like they can't make big 
decisions. 

623
00:31:05,550 --> 00:31:08,030
They don't want to buy houses, 
you know, they don't want to 

624
00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:10,120
move families because God knows 
what's going to happen next. 

625
00:31:10,130 --> 00:31:13,460
I think that's pretty common. 
Exactly you. 

626
00:31:13,470 --> 00:31:17,760
Said girlfriend broke up with 
him over the January 6th thing. 

627
00:31:18,250 --> 00:31:20,430
You're in this. 
We're similar age bracket at 

628
00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:21,680
least. 
I remember some a lot of things.

629
00:31:21,690 --> 00:31:23,880
I don't remember people getting 
into relationships and having 

630
00:31:23,890 --> 00:31:27,470
politics come between them. 
In my childhood in the 80s and 

631
00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:29,000
the 90s, I don't remember that 
being a thing. 

632
00:31:29,010 --> 00:31:31,360
Is that is that something that's
new to this country? 

633
00:31:32,020 --> 00:31:34,550
I think it is. 
I think that people are choosing

634
00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:37,450
their partners based on their 
political beliefs, to be honest 

635
00:31:37,460 --> 00:31:40,620
with you, because at the end of 
the day, you got to live with 

636
00:31:40,630 --> 00:31:42,310
this person. 
And if you're not on the same 

637
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:46,510
page politically, and you know, 
I hate to use the word politics,

638
00:31:46,580 --> 00:31:50,260
Kyle, because I was just saying 
this to somebody else, like the 

639
00:31:50,270 --> 00:31:53,380
state of our country right now. 
It's a sad state of affairs. 

640
00:31:53,470 --> 00:31:57,100
And when you start talking about
things with people and you start

641
00:31:57,110 --> 00:32:00,580
explaining to them your feelings
on what's happening and they put

642
00:32:00,590 --> 00:32:03,660
up that, oh, I, I, I don't like 
to talk about politics. 

643
00:32:04,150 --> 00:32:08,240
We are talking about politics. 
We are talking about the future 

644
00:32:08,250 --> 00:32:12,080
of our country. 
We are talking about the the 

645
00:32:12,090 --> 00:32:17,960
next generation of children and.
We're not talking politics. 

646
00:32:18,170 --> 00:32:20,460
These are things that need to be
discussed. 

647
00:32:20,730 --> 00:32:24,360
So if you're with a partner who 
is on a totally different page 

648
00:32:24,370 --> 00:32:27,150
than you, I really don't see how
it's going to work. 

649
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:31,050
I really don't. 
I wonder if we're. 

650
00:32:31,060 --> 00:32:33,410
Not talking politics at all if 
we're just talking about agreed 

651
00:32:33,420 --> 00:32:35,210
values. 
Like we don't agree what America

652
00:32:35,220 --> 00:32:37,250
means anymore. 
Exactly. 

653
00:32:37,300 --> 00:32:41,010
It's not politics. 
It's not a Republican Democrat 

654
00:32:41,020 --> 00:32:45,630
thing anymore and I think people
need to realise that and start 

655
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:49,310
waking up that we need to save 
our country, politics aside. 

656
00:32:50,580 --> 00:32:52,220
I have a a. 
Video coming out soon. 

657
00:32:52,230 --> 00:32:55,000
It's kind of like one of these 
little animated Prager U type 

658
00:32:55,010 --> 00:32:56,970
things and they've done it with 
one of my sponsors. 

659
00:32:56,980 --> 00:32:59,610
And and the fact of the matter 
is, it's my belief that 

660
00:32:59,660 --> 00:33:02,170
progressive lesbianism is in 
fact more like a religion than 

661
00:33:02,180 --> 00:33:06,930
it is a political ideology. 
And so we're not arguing about, 

662
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:10,390
you know, policy. 
We're arguing about theology and

663
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:12,670
whether or not the government 
should be God and make these 

664
00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:15,590
decisions and whether or not, 
you know, God should be God, 

665
00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:17,610
which I think is a conservative 
position at this point. 

666
00:33:17,620 --> 00:33:18,950
And so it's it's a theological 
debate. 

667
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:21,030
It's not a political discussion 
in many ways. 

668
00:33:21,100 --> 00:33:23,840
I think you kind of landed on 
there, and I agree. 

669
00:33:25,460 --> 00:33:27,310
It's hard to see it happen in. 
This country though, too, it's 

670
00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:28,890
really hard to see it since we 
saw it both ways. 

671
00:33:28,900 --> 00:33:30,200
I think younger people don't 
know that. 

672
00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:33,260
No, I agree. 
And you know, we talked about 

673
00:33:33,270 --> 00:33:35,820
this before, and I'm not an 
overly religious person by any 

674
00:33:35,830 --> 00:33:40,110
stretch, but when you take God 
out of the equation, as they 

675
00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:43,880
have, they removed God from 
schools, They removed God from 

676
00:33:45,290 --> 00:33:48,440
government buildings. 
You know, they took out the the,

677
00:33:48,450 --> 00:33:51,620
the moment of prayer in the 
morning when you removed that. 

678
00:33:51,630 --> 00:33:54,310
And you have a generation of 
kids growing up without it. 

679
00:33:55,610 --> 00:33:58,500
They don't have the morals that 
we had growing up. 

680
00:33:58,510 --> 00:34:04,540
They don't and their belief 
system is so different from 

681
00:34:04,550 --> 00:34:08,350
mine. 
I I am floored sometimes when I 

682
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:11,980
listen to what they believe. 
But I I have to say it's because

683
00:34:11,989 --> 00:34:14,969
they didn't have God in their 
lives and and they have no moral

684
00:34:14,980 --> 00:34:17,780
compass anymore. 
Remember that movie? 

685
00:34:17,790 --> 00:34:19,260
There was a movie called As Good
As It Gets. 

686
00:34:19,270 --> 00:34:23,050
It had Jack Nicholson in it, 
yes, and at 1:00. 

687
00:34:23,060 --> 00:34:25,670
Point there's this great Who is 
who's the female lead in there? 

688
00:34:25,679 --> 00:34:26,989
Is it? 
Is it Helen Hunt? 

689
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:29,570
Helen Hunt is in there. 
And so he's getting in the car, 

690
00:34:29,659 --> 00:34:34,020
and he's driving with the kind 
of effeminate guy Chambers named

691
00:34:34,030 --> 00:34:37,600
Brad Kinnear, maybe. 
Or is his name Greg Greg 

692
00:34:37,610 --> 00:34:39,820
Kinnear? 
He's got the dog and he's going 

693
00:34:39,830 --> 00:34:41,610
to drive them in the 
convertible, whatever. 

694
00:34:41,679 --> 00:34:44,120
And at some point someone says, 
you know whatever his characters

695
00:34:44,130 --> 00:34:46,250
name is. 
How do you write women so well? 

696
00:34:46,260 --> 00:34:48,750
Like you're such a great. 
Writer How do you write women so

697
00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:50,370
well? 
And he has that iconic 

698
00:34:50,420 --> 00:34:52,699
fantastic, either late 80s or 
early 90s. 

699
00:34:52,710 --> 00:34:55,070
Nine, he said. 
Well, I think of a man and I 

700
00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:58,830
take away reason and 
accountability and it just 

701
00:34:58,840 --> 00:34:59,960
punches you like right in the 
gut. 

702
00:34:59,970 --> 00:35:02,320
In my experience, that's 
actually not how you don't take 

703
00:35:02,330 --> 00:35:03,860
away women. 
Women's reason and 

704
00:35:03,870 --> 00:35:05,350
accountability, that's not what 
women are. 

705
00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:07,630
But it is what leftists seem to 
be right now that you take away 

706
00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:09,950
reason because they don't seem 
to make sense to themselves. 

707
00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:11,890
And accountability is that 
really big piece. 

708
00:35:11,900 --> 00:35:13,850
And maybe that's why people send
such vitriol. 

709
00:35:14,180 --> 00:35:16,150
They're not. 
They don't think they're going 

710
00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:17,590
to ever account for it, and 
that's God. 

711
00:35:17,660 --> 00:35:20,840
By the way, like God equals 
accountability at some point for

712
00:35:20,850 --> 00:35:22,640
people? 
Exactly, exactly. 

713
00:35:22,650 --> 00:35:25,860
I agree with that completely. 
And and you see that they're 

714
00:35:25,870 --> 00:35:29,860
coming out of school and and I'm
sorry to use the word dumb, but 

715
00:35:29,950 --> 00:35:31,720
I just watched a video last 
night. 

716
00:35:31,790 --> 00:35:33,740
Most of them don't know the 50 
states. 

717
00:35:33,890 --> 00:35:37,750
Most of them don't know the 
first thing about government. 

718
00:35:37,830 --> 00:35:40,990
They don't know. 
The Capitals, they don't know. 

719
00:35:41,930 --> 00:35:43,760
Really. 
I mean, they don't know how to 

720
00:35:43,770 --> 00:35:47,660
tell time if it's not a a 
digital clock, and I'm wondering

721
00:35:47,670 --> 00:35:50,340
what are you don't know how 
recursive They certainly 

722
00:35:50,350 --> 00:35:51,360
couldn't. 
Balance a check. 

723
00:35:51,370 --> 00:35:54,320
But no, they couldn't. 
What are they learning in 

724
00:35:54,330 --> 00:35:55,940
school? 
But boy, do they know the names 

725
00:35:55,950 --> 00:36:00,900
of all the Kardashians. 
I mean, we are doomed. 

726
00:36:01,590 --> 00:36:04,720
If this is the next generation, 
we are doomed. 

727
00:36:04,770 --> 00:36:09,720
I was reading somewhere where 
the number one career that high 

728
00:36:09,730 --> 00:36:14,770
schoolers are aspiring to have 
is a social media influencer. 

729
00:36:16,290 --> 00:36:19,360
This is this. 
Close my mind, You got AI is 

730
00:36:19,370 --> 00:36:22,840
eliminating so much. 
What are these kids going to do?

731
00:36:22,850 --> 00:36:24,860
Live with their parents the rest
of their lives? 

732
00:36:24,870 --> 00:36:28,530
Make TikTok videos. 
We we literally. 

733
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:30,970
So we got Ryan Matta, who's 
producing the show, and Ryan and

734
00:36:30,980 --> 00:36:33,030
I have had this conversation 
multiple times offline. 

735
00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:35,940
Ryan, you remember what the 
percentages are of what kids are

736
00:36:35,950 --> 00:36:37,230
saying. 
They want to be social media 

737
00:36:37,240 --> 00:36:39,350
people. 
It was some horrible number. 

738
00:36:39,410 --> 00:36:44,070
Yeah, it's 75% of children want 
to be a Youtubers when they grow

739
00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:47,210
up. 
It's it's not all it's cracked. 

740
00:36:47,220 --> 00:36:49,590
Up to be folks, and not 
everybody has the ability to do 

741
00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:50,720
it. 
Like not everybody wants to see 

742
00:36:50,730 --> 00:36:52,290
you get punched in the nuts over
and over again. 

743
00:36:52,300 --> 00:36:54,690
Jackass was a big thing when I 
was in high school and I 

744
00:36:54,700 --> 00:36:56,890
remember thinking that was dumb,
but I guess there's a segment of

745
00:36:56,900 --> 00:36:59,550
it where we're moving more 
towards Mike Judge's idiocracy 

746
00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:01,630
than we are towards some sort of
like, future. 

747
00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:04,180
It's a dystopia, but it's dumb. 
It's a sad dystopia. 

748
00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:07,700
Yes, it is. 
So we we touched on politics a 

749
00:37:07,710 --> 00:37:08,660
little bit. 
Sorry, I got a little 

750
00:37:08,670 --> 00:37:10,820
commentary, but I feel like it's
always worth kind of just touch 

751
00:37:10,830 --> 00:37:12,850
on the the broader cultural 
impact of it. 

752
00:37:13,990 --> 00:37:19,470
Matthew was not a cookie cutter,
quote unquote, MAGA person and I

753
00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:21,860
think the way that you've 
described his life, he's kind of

754
00:37:21,870 --> 00:37:23,900
an interesting and unique flower
in the world. 

755
00:37:23,910 --> 00:37:25,690
There's not a lot of people that
are like that. 

756
00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:27,740
We don't know a lot of people. 
Most people probably don't know 

757
00:37:27,750 --> 00:37:30,200
someone who's lived in multiple 
countries and spoke in multiple 

758
00:37:30,210 --> 00:37:32,230
languages and had jobs overseas 
and all that. 

759
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:34,870
That's that's unique. 
But a lot of people do have that

760
00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:35,960
impact. 
Tragedy. 

761
00:37:36,010 --> 00:37:39,040
You said he came back home. 
He's in PA What were his 

762
00:37:39,050 --> 00:37:40,820
political leanings? 
Why did he get activated into 

763
00:37:40,830 --> 00:37:42,380
politics at all? 
And where did he start with 

764
00:37:42,390 --> 00:37:44,560
that? 
To be honest with you Matt, you 

765
00:37:44,570 --> 00:37:46,360
know like I say it was never 
really political. 

766
00:37:46,370 --> 00:37:49,300
But when Bernie Sanders came on 
the scene, Matt took a liking to

767
00:37:49,310 --> 00:37:52,900
him and we would go back and 
forth about Bernie Sanders. 

768
00:37:53,030 --> 00:37:56,870
And I think one of the things 
was you know that Bernie was 

769
00:37:56,880 --> 00:37:59,480
supportive of this is college, 
you know being free for 

770
00:37:59,490 --> 00:38:02,680
everybody or. 
And and Matt who loved to learn 

771
00:38:02,770 --> 00:38:06,020
and wanted to get other degrees 
just did not want to take on the

772
00:38:06,030 --> 00:38:10,040
expense that it that it would 
incur to get another degree in 

773
00:38:10,050 --> 00:38:12,220
something. 
And I think he leaned towards a 

774
00:38:12,230 --> 00:38:16,270
lot of the things that Bernie 
Sanders supported, and he took a

775
00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:19,290
lot of Flack for that because we
just thought Bernie was crazy. 

776
00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:22,770
And then when President Trump 
came on the scene and he had 

777
00:38:22,780 --> 00:38:27,430
that very first debate with 
Hillary Clinton and just the way

778
00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:30,310
that that President Trump speaks
and his. 

779
00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:35,990
No holds barred and saying the 
things that everybody wants to 

780
00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:38,930
hear. 
Matt was Matt was enamoured with

781
00:38:38,940 --> 00:38:44,790
him and he read his book and he 
he started showing support for 

782
00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:49,450
President Trump at that point 
and he he wanted him to win and 

783
00:38:49,460 --> 00:38:52,930
when he won that presidency when
he won that election Matt was 

784
00:38:52,940 --> 00:38:57,290
just elated and Matt Matt 
businesses were doing fantastic 

785
00:38:57,300 --> 00:39:03,950
during President Trump's four 
years and and he was a huge fan 

786
00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:06,890
he was a huge supporter he was 
exactly what this country needed

787
00:39:06,900 --> 00:39:11,380
in Matt's eyes and and he made 
no bones about wearing his make 

788
00:39:11,390 --> 00:39:14,490
America great again hat and 
supporting him as much as he 

789
00:39:14,500 --> 00:39:18,400
could on his social media sites.
But he wasn't like constantly, 

790
00:39:18,410 --> 00:39:21,930
constantly preaching politics or
or anything about Trump on his 

791
00:39:21,940 --> 00:39:24,520
Facebook, if you were to see 
mass Facebook. 

792
00:39:25,540 --> 00:39:30,150
It it really was about love and 
acceptance and and doing the 

793
00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:34,370
right thing and living your life
in a way that you you should be 

794
00:39:34,380 --> 00:39:37,190
proud of or your parents would 
be proud of. 

795
00:39:37,700 --> 00:39:39,870
It was not all about politics 
with him. 

796
00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:42,470
He he just, he loved everybody 
too. 

797
00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:46,690
And even though Matt was a Trump
supporter he was very open to 

798
00:39:46,700 --> 00:39:50,090
people who were Democrat and 
other and and people of other 

799
00:39:50,100 --> 00:39:52,550
religions and other you know 
races. 

800
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:56,640
He had no. 
He had not one ounce of racism 

801
00:39:56,650 --> 00:39:59,760
in him, which is ironic because 
they think everybody from 

802
00:39:59,770 --> 00:40:03,060
January 6 was racist. 
Yeah, we'll have to break. 

803
00:40:03,070 --> 00:40:04,720
Into that because I don't 
understand where that narrative 

804
00:40:04,730 --> 00:40:07,520
came from and and I lived in DC 
at the time that January 6th 

805
00:40:07,530 --> 00:40:09,880
happened. 
I'm curious after that first 

806
00:40:09,890 --> 00:40:13,060
debate because because going 
from Bernie to going to Donald 

807
00:40:13,070 --> 00:40:15,100
Trump sounds like a political 
180. 

808
00:40:15,110 --> 00:40:17,380
It sounds like a kick flip like 
you do on a on a skateboard 

809
00:40:17,390 --> 00:40:18,910
where you turn around go the 
opposite direction. 

810
00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:19,900
I think that's what a kick flip 
is. 

811
00:40:19,910 --> 00:40:21,710
Sorry, I grew up in the 80s, but
I didn't skateboard. 

812
00:40:22,630 --> 00:40:25,840
My my curiosity is, did you guys
have any discussions about that?

813
00:40:26,300 --> 00:40:28,890
Did you feel like he was coming 
back to the fold, or did he tell

814
00:40:28,900 --> 00:40:31,110
you what it was that really 
impacted him in that first 

815
00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:34,100
debate that you just mention? 
He never really said. 

816
00:40:34,110 --> 00:40:35,740
What? 
What it was like, the main 

817
00:40:35,750 --> 00:40:37,300
thing. 
But I will say this, as I've 

818
00:40:37,310 --> 00:40:40,090
said about Matt, he researched 
everything. 

819
00:40:40,450 --> 00:40:44,580
I mean everything. 
So when I say he dove into 

820
00:40:44,590 --> 00:40:49,080
Donald Trump's life, I'm sure he
went way back back, way back 

821
00:40:49,090 --> 00:40:53,500
further than anybody else would.
He researched everything about a

822
00:40:53,510 --> 00:40:57,600
person before he would throw any
support behind him. 

823
00:40:57,650 --> 00:41:00,890
So. 
I think Matt just dug deep and 

824
00:41:00,900 --> 00:41:02,870
it was a big joke. 
I said, oh, finally you've seen 

825
00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:04,820
the light. 
And and when I would say that, 

826
00:41:04,830 --> 00:41:07,560
it's kind of funny because at 
this point he knew more about 

827
00:41:07,570 --> 00:41:10,580
President Trump than I did, you 
know, because I know he 

828
00:41:10,590 --> 00:41:13,860
researched him. 
Do you think there's a a common 

829
00:41:13,870 --> 00:41:16,580
vein of people that dealt with 
sort of the populism, the the 

830
00:41:16,590 --> 00:41:18,530
popularity that Bernie had, 
which is that he was saying 

831
00:41:18,540 --> 00:41:21,530
things that resonated with a 
large group of people And the 

832
00:41:21,540 --> 00:41:24,180
same way that because he's more,
I mean Bernie for all he is, I 

833
00:41:24,190 --> 00:41:26,420
think he's kind of a kook. 
But I know that he's charismatic

834
00:41:26,430 --> 00:41:28,360
to people that want to hear that
kind of messaging. 

835
00:41:28,450 --> 00:41:30,440
And I think Trump sort of has 
that same quality, right. 

836
00:41:30,450 --> 00:41:32,710
I mean it's bombastic. 
It's in your face, non 

837
00:41:32,720 --> 00:41:35,860
apologetic, offend certain. 
People, Is that kind of the lure

838
00:41:35,870 --> 00:41:37,590
you think? 
I think. 

839
00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:41,760
So I think the fact that Donald 
Trump was not a politician was 

840
00:41:41,770 --> 00:41:44,330
one of the main things that 
attracted Matt to him because he

841
00:41:44,340 --> 00:41:48,330
was a businessman, multi 
billionaire, obviously didn't 

842
00:41:48,340 --> 00:41:51,610
need to line his pockets while 
while being in the presidency 

843
00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:54,230
and that that was attractive to 
Matt. 

844
00:41:54,240 --> 00:41:56,790
Matt was never about money. 
He was never. 

845
00:41:57,980 --> 00:42:00,610
Becoming a. 
Millionaire was not mass goal. 

846
00:42:00,980 --> 00:42:03,500
And when I tell you he could 
have become a millionaire, 

847
00:42:03,510 --> 00:42:07,090
that's not an exaggeration. 
Matt gave away more than he 

848
00:42:07,100 --> 00:42:11,050
kept. 
He helped people all the time. 

849
00:42:11,060 --> 00:42:14,970
And Kyle, we are still healing 
hearing stories from people that

850
00:42:14,980 --> 00:42:18,430
Matt helped and not like just on
the down low. 

851
00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:22,010
He didn't, he didn't scream it 
from the the rooftops that he 

852
00:42:22,020 --> 00:42:24,050
helped somebody. 
We're finding out these stories 

853
00:42:24,060 --> 00:42:28,470
now and it really blows me away.
He was just such a generous, 

854
00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:30,670
kind person. 
Again, not. 

855
00:42:31,420 --> 00:42:34,830
Not what you'd expect from a 
January 6th Insurrectionist. 

856
00:42:34,950 --> 00:42:37,050
What do you think about those 
stories coming out at the same 

857
00:42:37,060 --> 00:42:40,170
time as people are sending you 
online vitriol and then people 

858
00:42:40,180 --> 00:42:41,530
in person kind of telling you 
the opposite? 

859
00:42:42,390 --> 00:42:43,880
I wish. 
They could have known Matt. 

860
00:42:44,330 --> 00:42:46,500
I wish they could have known 
what we know. 

861
00:42:47,350 --> 00:42:51,730
I wish they could have seen that
he added something to this 

862
00:42:51,740 --> 00:42:54,350
world. 
He added something that's that 

863
00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:56,640
this world just so desperately 
needs. 

864
00:42:57,740 --> 00:42:59,810
And we need more mats in this 
world. 

865
00:42:59,820 --> 00:43:02,070
We do. 
And um. 

866
00:43:03,540 --> 00:43:06,370
I don't know if they're. 
Just incapable of listening to 

867
00:43:06,380 --> 00:43:08,710
reason. 
I've reached the point where I'm

868
00:43:08,720 --> 00:43:11,050
not here to convince anybody of 
anything. 

869
00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:15,810
It's too exhausting. 
We first you and I first met in 

870
00:43:15,820 --> 00:43:18,910
person in Houston when they were
filming the police state film. 

871
00:43:18,980 --> 00:43:20,730
I know we had a brief 
interaction in the hallway and 

872
00:43:20,740 --> 00:43:22,270
got a hug, and then you sat 
down. 

873
00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:24,920
I'm guessing your interview with
Dinesh Dsouza was quite a bit 

874
00:43:24,930 --> 00:43:26,110
longer than what was shown in 
the movie. 

875
00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:28,380
Is that accurate? 
Yeah, they could. 

876
00:43:28,390 --> 00:43:30,860
You know, for times sake, they 
could only include so much of 

877
00:43:30,870 --> 00:43:32,790
it, of course. 
What were the high points? 

878
00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:35,670
Was there anything in that 
interview that you saw cut from 

879
00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:38,560
the film that you wish people 
would know about matter about 

880
00:43:38,570 --> 00:43:41,620
his story that didn't get sort 
of included in the final cut? 

881
00:43:42,690 --> 00:43:47,530
There was one point when we were
talking and I think the they had

882
00:43:47,540 --> 00:43:49,980
to change out the batteries and 
the camera or something. 

883
00:43:49,990 --> 00:43:52,980
And Dinesh and I were talking 
and they put the batteries back 

884
00:43:52,990 --> 00:43:55,540
in and we were still continuing 
our conversation. 

885
00:43:55,590 --> 00:43:57,540
And I did hear one of them say 
roll it. 

886
00:43:57,590 --> 00:44:00,220
They wanted to catch it on 
camera and it was something that

887
00:44:00,230 --> 00:44:03,860
I had said to Dinesh. 
And I, and I truly believe this,

888
00:44:04,090 --> 00:44:07,070
I mean this with all of my heart
when I tell you this. 

889
00:44:09,160 --> 00:44:11,620
Matt gave. 
So much to this world. 

890
00:44:12,730 --> 00:44:15,650
He was such. 
A positive force. 

891
00:44:16,380 --> 00:44:19,420
In this world. 
And was so. 

892
00:44:19,430 --> 00:44:23,420
Much better than me in so many 
ways. 

893
00:44:23,490 --> 00:44:26,480
He had so much more to offer 
than I ever could. 

894
00:44:26,890 --> 00:44:29,820
He had a heart for people that I
simply don't have. 

895
00:44:31,070 --> 00:44:34,160
If I could. 
Trade places with him right now 

896
00:44:34,510 --> 00:44:37,810
I would. 
Because this world needs him 

897
00:44:37,860 --> 00:44:41,530
more than it needs me. 
I mean that Kyle. 

898
00:44:42,060 --> 00:44:46,790
That's how strongly I feel about
the loss of of Matt. 

899
00:44:47,940 --> 00:44:50,630
He was much more. 
Needed in this world than I ever

900
00:44:50,640 --> 00:44:53,210
will be. 
And I feel sad. 

901
00:44:53,940 --> 00:44:56,660
That so many people never got to
meet him. 

902
00:44:58,370 --> 00:45:00,740
There's a I think a lot of 
people kind of have that 

903
00:45:00,750 --> 00:45:03,330
experience that some of these 
really Beautiful Creatures that 

904
00:45:03,340 --> 00:45:05,920
exist in the world exist for too
short a time. 

905
00:45:06,270 --> 00:45:08,880
And we probably all have one 
example or another in our lives 

906
00:45:08,890 --> 00:45:11,640
and it doesn't seem fair, 
doesn't seem just we don't have 

907
00:45:11,650 --> 00:45:14,140
to understand it. 
That's that's the only upside to

908
00:45:14,150 --> 00:45:17,000
a, to a faith in God is that you
don't have to know what the plan

909
00:45:17,010 --> 00:45:17,780
is. 
There is a plan. 

910
00:45:17,790 --> 00:45:20,540
You'll figure it out later or 
maybe you won't find it out 

911
00:45:20,550 --> 00:45:22,110
until after you die. 
But that's kind of what we 

912
00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:25,060
believe is Christians, which is 
the solace. 

913
00:45:25,070 --> 00:45:26,950
And I don't think that maybe 
that's why they're so angry on 

914
00:45:26,960 --> 00:45:28,140
the left. 
They don't have that. 

915
00:45:28,230 --> 00:45:30,460
They don't have that. 
They they can at least lean on 

916
00:45:30,470 --> 00:45:32,550
it. 
I I wonder if you'll talk about 

917
00:45:32,560 --> 00:45:34,360
the circumstances. 
First of all, what happened 

918
00:45:34,370 --> 00:45:37,140
where he was out on January 6th?
The the details of his case. 

919
00:45:37,190 --> 00:45:39,220
A lot of these things, they're 
not all the same. 

920
00:45:39,350 --> 00:45:40,840
Everybody had a unique 
experience. 

921
00:45:40,850 --> 00:45:43,620
Just like if you go to a protest
and there's 500,000 people, 

922
00:45:43,630 --> 00:45:46,360
there's 500,000 stories. 
You just see a big crowd. 

923
00:45:46,430 --> 00:45:47,650
Matthew was one person in a 
crowd. 

924
00:45:47,660 --> 00:45:49,780
Can you tell the story about 
what happened on January 6th, 

925
00:45:49,850 --> 00:45:53,560
2021 and we'll move forward with
how that changes the the rest of

926
00:45:53,570 --> 00:45:54,950
his life? 
He. 

927
00:45:54,960 --> 00:45:59,570
Went to January 6 with some 
friends and he thought he 

928
00:45:59,580 --> 00:46:03,210
thought like it was going to be 
a day of celebration and he 

929
00:46:03,220 --> 00:46:05,330
wanted to be part of it. 
He had been to several Trump 

930
00:46:05,340 --> 00:46:09,750
rallies prior to that and just 
expected it to be pretty much 

931
00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:12,410
like like any of the other 
rallies he had gone to. 

932
00:46:12,420 --> 00:46:15,990
But in this case, he was hoping 
that Mike Pence was not going to

933
00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:19,250
certify the election and. 
You know, he was going to be 

934
00:46:19,260 --> 00:46:21,750
celebrating in the street with 
all these other people who 

935
00:46:21,760 --> 00:46:24,270
believe the same as he did that 
the election was stolen. 

936
00:46:25,110 --> 00:46:29,840
And it didn't happen that way. 
And they he went into the 

937
00:46:29,850 --> 00:46:32,980
capital through an open door. 
He was in a group of people 

938
00:46:32,990 --> 00:46:36,330
pushing from behind. 
And there were police in there, 

939
00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:39,650
but they pretty much stepped to 
the side and he walked through 

940
00:46:39,660 --> 00:46:43,150
and he was filming with his 
phone for Facebook Live. 

941
00:46:43,830 --> 00:46:47,050
He was in there for 14 minutes. 
He didn't touch anything, he 

942
00:46:47,060 --> 00:46:49,380
didn't break anything. 
He didn't hurt anyone. 

943
00:46:50,370 --> 00:46:53,480
And he walked out. 
He went back to his hotel room. 

944
00:46:53,830 --> 00:46:58,500
He did another Facebook video 
that talked about the day. 

945
00:46:58,710 --> 00:47:00,730
That video is actually on my 
website. 

946
00:47:00,740 --> 00:47:04,560
You could watch it. 
And Max demeanour in the video 

947
00:47:04,570 --> 00:47:08,010
is very calm and very cool. 
And. 

948
00:47:08,060 --> 00:47:10,660
I mean, it wasn't like he was 
somebody who had just come from 

949
00:47:10,670 --> 00:47:14,690
this, this insurrection and he 
was pumped up and angry. 

950
00:47:14,840 --> 00:47:17,370
That wasn't it at all. 
He was very calm and he was 

951
00:47:17,380 --> 00:47:22,000
talking about the day. 
And, he said in the video, don't

952
00:47:22,010 --> 00:47:25,460
worry, this isn't over yet. 
Um. 

953
00:47:26,700 --> 00:47:30,330
Mike Pence did prove himself to 
be a traitor, But don't worry, 

954
00:47:30,720 --> 00:47:33,830
it's not over. 
And that was all he said in it. 

955
00:47:35,150 --> 00:47:37,540
About a week. 
Later, I was sitting on my 

956
00:47:37,550 --> 00:47:41,020
couch. 
And I was on Facebook. 

957
00:47:41,720 --> 00:47:44,910
And somebody had posted a link 
that there were people from 

958
00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:47,930
January 6 whose pictures were on
the FBI website. 

959
00:47:48,730 --> 00:47:51,310
So I clicked on the link and I 
was scrolling through the 

960
00:47:51,320 --> 00:47:53,770
pictures. 
And I came. 

961
00:47:53,780 --> 00:47:56,350
Across Matt's picture on the 
website. 

962
00:47:57,090 --> 00:48:01,160
And I I just. 
Oh my gosh. 

963
00:48:01,230 --> 00:48:05,390
Dread just came over me. 
And I called one of my brothers 

964
00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:07,700
up in Pennsylvania. 
I said we have a problem. 

965
00:48:08,110 --> 00:48:11,260
That's picture is on the FBI 
website for January 6. 

966
00:48:12,080 --> 00:48:16,050
He went to Matt's house at 6:00 
that morning, and Matt had 

967
00:48:16,060 --> 00:48:20,960
already known about it. 
And Matt called a former police 

968
00:48:20,970 --> 00:48:23,890
officer who was retired and 
asked him what to do. 

969
00:48:24,270 --> 00:48:26,900
And he said you should call the 
FBI office in Newcastle, 

970
00:48:26,910 --> 00:48:29,400
Pennsylvania, and tell them who 
you are. 

971
00:48:29,930 --> 00:48:33,580
So at 9:00 that morning, Matt 
called the FBI office and told 

972
00:48:33,590 --> 00:48:36,740
him who he was, and they were 
going to send a couple of agents

973
00:48:36,750 --> 00:48:41,750
out the next day to talk to him.
And that's what they did. 

974
00:48:42,790 --> 00:48:45,120
They came out to my. 
Brother's house and they 

975
00:48:45,130 --> 00:48:47,010
interviewed Matt for a little 
over an hour. 

976
00:48:48,330 --> 00:48:50,480
And he thought it was a 
misunderstanding. 

977
00:48:51,260 --> 00:48:53,590
He thought, let me just tell 
these guys what happened. 

978
00:48:53,600 --> 00:48:56,370
I didn't break anything. 
I didn't see any signs. 

979
00:48:56,560 --> 00:48:59,830
You know, by the time Matt was 
there, there were no barriers 

980
00:48:59,880 --> 00:49:03,350
around the Capitol, so he didn't
see a barrier that he was 

981
00:49:03,360 --> 00:49:05,930
crossing. 
And he thought that he would 

982
00:49:05,940 --> 00:49:08,200
tell them what happened and that
would that would be the end of 

983
00:49:08,210 --> 00:49:10,270
it. 
But there was something in my 

984
00:49:10,280 --> 00:49:12,060
heart that told me that was not 
the end of it. 

985
00:49:13,060 --> 00:49:15,070
So I booked the plane ticket to 
fly home. 

986
00:49:15,860 --> 00:49:17,450
I said we need to get you an 
attorney. 

987
00:49:18,390 --> 00:49:20,260
And we asked several people 
that. 

988
00:49:21,750 --> 00:49:24,620
About about a criminal attorney 
and we were given the name of 

989
00:49:24,630 --> 00:49:28,130
this guy in Ohio. 
And we had a meeting with him. 

990
00:49:29,090 --> 00:49:33,820
And when we pulled up to his his
office, there was a Biden sign. 

991
00:49:34,600 --> 00:49:36,470
In the yard in front of his 
office. 

992
00:49:37,450 --> 00:49:40,040
And I said, Matt, I don't, I 
don't like those sounds of this.

993
00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:42,410
He said let's hear him out 
first. 

994
00:49:42,420 --> 00:49:44,870
Let's let's go hear him out. 
I don't like the looks of it. 

995
00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:48,110
I I I really have a bad feeling.
He said no, no, Aunt Jerry, 

996
00:49:48,120 --> 00:49:50,030
let's give him, let's give him a
fair chance. 

997
00:49:50,790 --> 00:49:54,320
As I said, Matt just did not 
judge people based on their 

998
00:49:54,330 --> 00:49:58,190
political beliefs or anything. 
So we walked in there and Matt 

999
00:49:58,200 --> 00:50:01,210
liked him. 
He was a very gruff person, but 

1000
00:50:01,220 --> 00:50:03,970
he had 52 years of criminal 
justice experience. 

1001
00:50:04,750 --> 00:50:07,160
And he kind of blew it off. 
He said This is no big deal. 

1002
00:50:07,170 --> 00:50:09,490
These are, these are 
misdemeanours because that's 

1003
00:50:09,500 --> 00:50:11,760
what they were going to charge 
them with, were misdemeanours, 

1004
00:50:12,070 --> 00:50:15,810
you know, parading, trespassing.
He said this is a. 

1005
00:50:15,820 --> 00:50:18,500
Slap on the wrist. 
Well. 

1006
00:50:19,200 --> 00:50:23,750
It was later, about a week 
later, they slapped 220 of these

1007
00:50:23,760 --> 00:50:27,910
same J6 people with the felony 
charge. 

1008
00:50:28,340 --> 00:50:31,470
But let me backtrack. 
The FBI showed up a second time 

1009
00:50:31,480 --> 00:50:34,440
and they arrested Matt at his 
house with the four 

1010
00:50:34,450 --> 00:50:37,730
misdemeanours. 
They took him. 

1011
00:50:37,740 --> 00:50:41,560
Into the Newcastle office. 
And they. 

1012
00:50:42,110 --> 00:50:44,350
Kept them for three hours and 
they released him. 

1013
00:50:45,620 --> 00:50:48,170
And. 
It was like I said a week later 

1014
00:50:48,180 --> 00:50:51,970
they came back with the felony 
charge but he was never taken 

1015
00:50:51,980 --> 00:50:56,130
into custody at that point. 
Let let me dig into something 

1016
00:50:56,140 --> 00:50:57,910
just a little bit because I 
think it's going to be point for

1017
00:50:57,920 --> 00:51:00,250
the audience. 
We had my friend Garrido Boyle 

1018
00:51:00,260 --> 00:51:03,370
on who sits and has the same 
sort of experience with me deep 

1019
00:51:03,380 --> 00:51:05,790
and abiding distrust right now 
for the FBI, which I'm sure you 

1020
00:51:05,800 --> 00:51:08,730
have a a similar one. 
And we discussed that feeling of

1021
00:51:08,740 --> 00:51:11,290
dread. 
You you you named it dread. 

1022
00:51:11,480 --> 00:51:13,430
Can you tell people what that 
felt like in your. 

1023
00:51:13,480 --> 00:51:17,250
Just describe the feeling of 
what it is to have that 

1024
00:51:17,260 --> 00:51:20,160
sensation. 
Well, you know, as I. 

1025
00:51:20,170 --> 00:51:22,140
Said. 
I have several nephews and 

1026
00:51:22,150 --> 00:51:27,040
nieces and brothers and none of 
us have ever had any trouble 

1027
00:51:27,050 --> 00:51:31,490
with the police at all. 
I mean, no arrests of any kind. 

1028
00:51:33,030 --> 00:51:38,220
To see my nephew's picture on an
FBI website. 

1029
00:51:39,360 --> 00:51:43,270
Was like. 
A feeling of fear that I have 

1030
00:51:43,280 --> 00:51:46,060
never known before. 
I. 

1031
00:51:47,540 --> 00:51:52,030
I I just. 
It gave me a a very bad feeling 

1032
00:51:52,100 --> 00:51:55,890
like this is not going to end 
well and the fact that he was on

1033
00:51:55,900 --> 00:51:58,990
there with dozens and dozens of 
other pictures. 

1034
00:51:59,840 --> 00:52:03,790
I It just came to me like at 
that point, like why do they 

1035
00:52:03,800 --> 00:52:05,950
have all these photographs of 
these people? 

1036
00:52:06,640 --> 00:52:09,810
There is something more to this.
This is not just some random 

1037
00:52:09,820 --> 00:52:13,520
picture of Matt at the Capitol. 
This is planned. 

1038
00:52:14,870 --> 00:52:18,430
And. 
I knew that because of that. 

1039
00:52:19,250 --> 00:52:22,920
This was not going to be over. 
This was not going to be a slap 

1040
00:52:22,930 --> 00:52:25,630
on the wrist. 
This was not going to have a 

1041
00:52:25,640 --> 00:52:29,620
good outcome. 
And they they came in. 

1042
00:52:29,630 --> 00:52:30,920
First of all. 
It's it's worth people 

1043
00:52:30,930 --> 00:52:33,360
understanding too. 
The FBI came in, did the arrest 

1044
00:52:33,370 --> 00:52:35,520
over misdemeanours, right? 
And they did a process. 

1045
00:52:36,490 --> 00:52:37,980
Took him to the Either field 
office. 

1046
00:52:37,990 --> 00:52:40,560
The resident agency office did a
processing. 

1047
00:52:40,570 --> 00:52:42,620
He was out a couple hours later,
Yes. 

1048
00:52:43,260 --> 00:52:46,950
And and I will use this as a 
moment to advocate on behalf of 

1049
00:52:46,960 --> 00:52:49,360
people for their own safety, 
because I've had private 

1050
00:52:49,370 --> 00:52:51,950
conversations with my friends 
who feel like this could be a 

1051
00:52:51,960 --> 00:52:53,650
reality for them. 
They're like, I'm not going to 

1052
00:52:53,660 --> 00:52:54,740
gaol. 
I'm not going to go sit in the 

1053
00:52:54,750 --> 00:52:56,510
gulag. 
I'm shooting it out. 

1054
00:52:56,740 --> 00:53:00,410
And the answer is like, don't do
that, Don't, don't start there. 

1055
00:53:00,480 --> 00:53:03,130
Like #1, those agents are not 
really your problem. 

1056
00:53:03,200 --> 00:53:05,900
But moreover, the odds are as 
you're you're home by the end of

1057
00:53:05,910 --> 00:53:06,760
the day. 
My wife and I had this 

1058
00:53:06,770 --> 00:53:09,130
conversation last night almost 
through tears for on her end. 

1059
00:53:09,200 --> 00:53:11,930
It's like if they come for me 
and I don't know why they would,

1060
00:53:11,940 --> 00:53:14,440
but I just don't trust them. 
And I think they could. 

1061
00:53:15,450 --> 00:53:16,760
I'm gonna go to gaol. 
It'll be fine. 

1062
00:53:16,770 --> 00:53:18,880
I'll be or not won't be gaol. 
I'll go sit in a room with them 

1063
00:53:18,890 --> 00:53:20,950
and I'll tell them to, you know,
I want to call an attorney and 

1064
00:53:20,960 --> 00:53:23,000
I'll and I'll come home. 
It'll be OK. 

1065
00:53:23,010 --> 00:53:25,620
I'll be wearing nothing but tiny
boxer shorts and a pair of 

1066
00:53:25,630 --> 00:53:27,530
cowboy boots or something. 
I'll do something obnoxious 

1067
00:53:27,540 --> 00:53:28,870
because they got to deal with 
that. 

1068
00:53:28,880 --> 00:53:30,380
They got to deal with me having 
no shirt. 

1069
00:53:30,520 --> 00:53:32,140
I'm not going to put on clothes 
for them. 

1070
00:53:33,010 --> 00:53:34,920
But you come home and he came 
home. 

1071
00:53:35,170 --> 00:53:37,990
You know, it wasn't over. 
Did did Matthew think that it 

1072
00:53:38,000 --> 00:53:39,340
was over? 
Did he think like, hey, this is 

1073
00:53:39,350 --> 00:53:40,520
all wrapped up, it's all going 
to be good. 

1074
00:53:40,530 --> 00:53:43,000
Did he have that, that happy 
attitude or did he start feeling

1075
00:53:43,010 --> 00:53:45,670
your dread, Do you think? 
Well, like I said, when. 

1076
00:53:45,680 --> 00:53:49,960
He was arrested and came home. 
At that point he still only had 

1077
00:53:49,970 --> 00:53:52,810
the four misdemeanours and it 
was a few days later that they 

1078
00:53:52,820 --> 00:53:57,130
added the felony and that's when
it got it got very serious. 

1079
00:53:57,140 --> 00:53:58,780
What was that conversation like,
if you know? 

1080
00:54:00,960 --> 00:54:02,260
Was it? 
Was it through his attorney? 

1081
00:54:02,270 --> 00:54:04,160
Did they call him up? 
Was it? 

1082
00:54:04,210 --> 00:54:06,160
How did they serve him with the 
idea that he was going to have? 

1083
00:54:06,590 --> 00:54:11,050
The attorney, it was through the
attorney and at that point I was

1084
00:54:11,060 --> 00:54:14,850
scrambling because different 
people would send me videos and 

1085
00:54:14,860 --> 00:54:19,690
things of Matt that day because 
first of all, Facebook took took

1086
00:54:19,700 --> 00:54:22,900
his account away from him. 
They had taken the video that he

1087
00:54:22,910 --> 00:54:26,860
had posted at the Capitol. 
They took the video of him at 

1088
00:54:26,870 --> 00:54:30,540
the hotel down. 
Um, so we didn't have access to 

1089
00:54:30,550 --> 00:54:34,230
those at that time, but somebody
had sent me video of Matt 

1090
00:54:34,240 --> 00:54:40,140
outside of the Capitol. 
And it was 258 in the afternoon.

1091
00:54:41,320 --> 00:54:45,190
And I said, OK, so you were 
outside, you had not yet gone 

1092
00:54:45,200 --> 00:54:48,310
into the building, and Congress 
had adjourned it 2:15. 

1093
00:54:48,740 --> 00:54:51,270
So there's no way, there's no 
way they can, they can stick 

1094
00:54:51,280 --> 00:54:53,730
this obstruction of Congress 
charge on you. 

1095
00:54:53,740 --> 00:54:56,810
You weren't even in the building
until like 45 minutes later. 

1096
00:54:57,420 --> 00:55:00,790
And so I, you know, sent that 
over to his attorney and I said 

1097
00:55:00,800 --> 00:55:03,160
here, this is, this is your 
answer right here to the 

1098
00:55:03,170 --> 00:55:05,470
obstruction charge. 
He wasn't even in the building. 

1099
00:55:06,450 --> 00:55:08,220
And his attorney said it's not 
going to matter. 

1100
00:55:09,120 --> 00:55:10,370
I said, what do you mean socket 
of matter? 

1101
00:55:10,380 --> 00:55:12,940
It's proof right there. 
He wasn't in the building and 

1102
00:55:12,950 --> 00:55:14,290
they said they're not looking at
that. 

1103
00:55:14,300 --> 00:55:16,670
It's still they're still going 
to go with the obstruction 

1104
00:55:16,680 --> 00:55:19,390
charge. 
And I couldn't understand that 

1105
00:55:19,400 --> 00:55:22,000
for the life of me. 
I thought we had a piece of 

1106
00:55:22,010 --> 00:55:24,480
evidence there that proved that 
he wasn't in the building during

1107
00:55:24,490 --> 00:55:27,540
a session of Congress. 
But it didn't matter. 

1108
00:55:28,030 --> 00:55:32,380
And I knew, I knew at that point
that nothing he said or did was 

1109
00:55:32,390 --> 00:55:34,850
going to make a difference. 
Do you think Matthew knew that 

1110
00:55:34,860 --> 00:55:36,550
too? 
Yes. 

1111
00:55:37,330 --> 00:55:41,320
Because he got. 
He got. 

1112
00:55:41,380 --> 00:55:45,470
Consumed with worry? 
I mean consumed. 

1113
00:55:46,300 --> 00:55:49,810
I made several trips home during
that year and. 

1114
00:55:51,080 --> 00:55:53,710
It was just to. 
Be there to help with damage 

1115
00:55:53,720 --> 00:55:55,710
control. 
And one of the times I went 

1116
00:55:55,720 --> 00:56:00,030
home, we couldn't find Matt. 
He was not answering his phone, 

1117
00:56:00,040 --> 00:56:03,860
he was not at his house. 
I was cooking dinner for my 

1118
00:56:03,870 --> 00:56:06,670
whole family to come over and 
Matt was supposed to be there 

1119
00:56:06,680 --> 00:56:10,760
and we couldn't find him. 
And we. 

1120
00:56:10,770 --> 00:56:12,830
Were we were very worried about 
him that day? 

1121
00:56:13,580 --> 00:56:15,690
It was in the middle of the 
winter. 

1122
00:56:16,350 --> 00:56:19,400
And. 
He told us where he was at. 

1123
00:56:19,410 --> 00:56:22,490
He texted that he was at Cooks 
Forest, PA. 

1124
00:56:23,920 --> 00:56:26,130
And we later. 
Found out he was going to jump 

1125
00:56:26,140 --> 00:56:30,240
off the bridge. 
But we were able to talk him 

1126
00:56:30,250 --> 00:56:33,540
down and bring him home. 
And as hard. 

1127
00:56:33,550 --> 00:56:36,900
As we tried, we would feel like 
we were getting somewhere with 

1128
00:56:36,910 --> 00:56:41,780
him and he was showing signs of,
you know, reason and that there 

1129
00:56:41,790 --> 00:56:44,860
is hope. 
And then he would see something 

1130
00:56:44,870 --> 00:56:48,960
on the news, another bunch of 
people arrested for January 6, 

1131
00:56:49,310 --> 00:56:51,230
and it would bring him right 
back down again. 

1132
00:56:52,770 --> 00:56:56,480
And. 
The postponements and delays 

1133
00:56:56,660 --> 00:57:00,470
were constant in his case. 
He would get himself already, 

1134
00:57:00,480 --> 00:57:02,960
and at the time it was COVID. 
So all of his meetings were 

1135
00:57:02,970 --> 00:57:05,960
being Zoom. 
He would get himself already get

1136
00:57:05,970 --> 00:57:07,550
his. 
He'd have to go off to his 

1137
00:57:07,600 --> 00:57:10,030
attorney's office where they 
would have a Zoom call with. 

1138
00:57:11,010 --> 00:57:14,410
The court. 
With the DOJ and and Matt would 

1139
00:57:14,420 --> 00:57:18,620
get his suit on and and get all 
prepared mentally for it and 1/2

1140
00:57:18,630 --> 00:57:22,020
hour before you get a phone call
and say oh don't bother coming 

1141
00:57:22,030 --> 00:57:24,130
out, Matt, they they postpone 
the hearing. 

1142
00:57:24,910 --> 00:57:27,540
They cancelled it. 
It's three weeks. 

1143
00:57:27,550 --> 00:57:30,120
From now. 
And then he would get ready, you

1144
00:57:30,130 --> 00:57:32,050
know, he would be brought down 
all again. 

1145
00:57:32,060 --> 00:57:35,250
And then he would have to build 
himself up for the next meeting 

1146
00:57:35,740 --> 00:57:39,790
and they would cancel it again. 
And they kept saying it was a 

1147
00:57:39,800 --> 00:57:43,850
delay in discovery. 
And I said to Matt, I says Matt,

1148
00:57:43,860 --> 00:57:46,890
it's a delay in discovery 
because they haven't discovered 

1149
00:57:46,900 --> 00:57:51,450
any evidence on you yet. 
I said, so the longer these get 

1150
00:57:51,460 --> 00:57:54,670
postponed, the better it is for 
you, because it shows us that 

1151
00:57:54,680 --> 00:57:57,150
they don't have the evidence 
that they, you know, that they 

1152
00:57:57,160 --> 00:58:00,170
thought they did. 
I think they arrested you first 

1153
00:58:00,500 --> 00:58:02,290
and then they were going to find
the evidence. 

1154
00:58:02,300 --> 00:58:04,860
And lo and behold, there wasn't 
much to find. 

1155
00:58:05,500 --> 00:58:09,870
He wasn't affiliated with any 
Proud Boys or any any militia 

1156
00:58:09,880 --> 00:58:13,310
groups of any kind. 
He had nothing on his phone or 

1157
00:58:13,320 --> 00:58:16,030
laptop that incriminated him in 
any way. 

1158
00:58:16,280 --> 00:58:22,370
It was clean. 
And but it just wasn't enough. 

1159
00:58:22,430 --> 00:58:24,910
He had this looming fear over 
him. 

1160
00:58:25,630 --> 00:58:30,680
People in the in the media were 
talking 20 years in prison for 

1161
00:58:30,730 --> 00:58:33,100
obstruction of an official 
proceeding. 

1162
00:58:33,830 --> 00:58:37,310
And Matt was worried. 
He was so worried. 

1163
00:58:38,010 --> 00:58:42,450
And as time went on. 
He wouldn't go out of his. 

1164
00:58:42,460 --> 00:58:47,170
House he wouldn't go in public. 
He gave us television away. 

1165
00:58:47,180 --> 00:58:49,030
He didn't want to watch the news
anymore. 

1166
00:58:49,070 --> 00:58:51,290
He didn't want to see his 
picture on the nightly news 

1167
00:58:51,300 --> 00:58:53,080
because the local media was 
brutal. 

1168
00:58:53,700 --> 00:58:58,290
As well as the local newspaper. 
And if he did meet a friend, he 

1169
00:58:58,300 --> 00:58:59,890
would. 
He would meet them an hour 

1170
00:58:59,900 --> 00:59:03,130
outside of town for coffee 
because he didn't want to be 

1171
00:59:03,140 --> 00:59:04,720
seen. 
He was so embarrassed. 

1172
00:59:05,640 --> 00:59:09,010
And his dad's health was 
declining because of the stress 

1173
00:59:09,120 --> 00:59:13,150
of the situation. 
And that was weighing on Matt 

1174
00:59:13,160 --> 00:59:15,750
something awful. 
He had this tremendous amount of

1175
00:59:15,760 --> 00:59:19,440
guilt because he could see the 
physical effects on his dad. 

1176
00:59:20,380 --> 00:59:22,730
And that was the last person he 
wanted to hurt. 

1177
00:59:24,050 --> 00:59:26,440
And. 
Christmas was coming. 

1178
00:59:27,070 --> 00:59:29,980
And just before Christmas, he 
said to his attorney. 

1179
00:59:30,810 --> 00:59:33,040
I I need this to be over. 
What? 

1180
00:59:33,050 --> 00:59:36,470
What can I do to make this over?
And his attorney says you you 

1181
00:59:36,480 --> 00:59:39,670
need to plead guilty. 
And Matt said. 

1182
00:59:39,680 --> 00:59:42,070
Fine, then I'll plead guilty, he
says. 

1183
00:59:42,280 --> 00:59:45,590
Knowing that you're your dad's 
caregiver, knowing that you've 

1184
00:59:45,600 --> 00:59:49,540
never been arrested, knowing 
that you turned yourself in, he 

1185
00:59:49,550 --> 00:59:50,890
said. 
These are all weigh very 

1186
00:59:50,900 --> 00:59:54,250
positively on your case and I 
feel that you'll get 6 to 12 

1187
00:59:54,260 --> 00:59:57,240
months in a prison camp minimum 
security. 

1188
00:59:58,210 --> 01:00:02,170
And so Matt agreed. 
And he pled guilty on December 

1189
01:00:02,180 --> 01:00:06,050
21st. 
And he came down to Florida. 

1190
01:00:06,950 --> 01:00:09,340
He drove down to see his 
girlfriend and then he was 

1191
01:00:09,350 --> 01:00:14,250
coming to our home here and he 
came here on Christmas night. 

1192
01:00:14,680 --> 01:00:18,760
He was here for four days with 
us and he cried the entire time 

1193
01:00:18,770 --> 01:00:23,400
he was here. 
He was just broken. 

1194
01:00:24,230 --> 01:00:28,300
He was so skinny. 
He no longer cared about eating 

1195
01:00:28,310 --> 01:00:31,680
healthy. 
He was drinking doctor Peppers 

1196
01:00:31,690 --> 01:00:34,760
like crazy, which that was 
something Matt hadn't had in 

1197
01:00:35,090 --> 01:00:39,460
probably 15 years. 
He was on this like self 

1198
01:00:39,470 --> 01:00:42,990
destructive path. 
He just didn't care. 

1199
01:00:44,310 --> 01:00:46,820
But he was still going to turn 
it into a positive. 

1200
01:00:46,950 --> 01:00:50,660
He told me he was going to help 
his fellow inmates, obtained 

1201
01:00:50,670 --> 01:00:55,120
their GED and maybe work on 
another degree himself while he 

1202
01:00:55,130 --> 01:00:58,940
was in. 
He had somebody lined up to take

1203
01:00:58,950 --> 01:01:01,620
care of his cat while he was 
going to be away. 

1204
01:01:02,780 --> 01:01:07,110
And they were going to stay at 
his house and keep his house for

1205
01:01:07,120 --> 01:01:09,420
him so he wouldn't lose his 
rental home. 

1206
01:01:10,820 --> 01:01:16,730
And he had it planned out. 
And then in February he was it 

1207
01:01:16,740 --> 01:01:19,180
was the last week of February. 
His hearing was supposed to be 

1208
01:01:19,190 --> 01:01:21,600
March the 3rd. 
What was the hearing? 

1209
01:01:21,610 --> 01:01:24,120
For. 
It was first sentencing. 

1210
01:01:24,350 --> 01:01:25,140
Got it. 
So he's. 

1211
01:01:25,150 --> 01:01:26,870
Pled guilty, he said. 
Got it. 

1212
01:01:26,880 --> 01:01:28,640
You broke me. 
I'm. 

1213
01:01:28,700 --> 01:01:30,220
I'm on board. 
I'm going to do some time for 

1214
01:01:30,230 --> 01:01:31,620
this. 
Like I'm giving you the pound of

1215
01:01:31,630 --> 01:01:34,350
flesh that you're asking for, 
for whatever that cost him, 

1216
01:01:34,360 --> 01:01:36,340
which sounds like it was a lot. 
And then? 

1217
01:01:36,990 --> 01:01:38,950
Then the question is, what is 
the government going to agree 

1218
01:01:38,960 --> 01:01:39,890
to? 
Or what is the judge going to 

1219
01:01:39,900 --> 01:01:41,740
actually assign based on the 
government recommendations? 

1220
01:01:41,750 --> 01:01:44,790
Correct, exactly. 
And like I said, his attorney 

1221
01:01:44,800 --> 01:01:47,670
kept saying 6 to 12 months and 
then. 

1222
01:01:48,580 --> 01:01:50,430
In your head, you get yourself 
married to the idea. 

1223
01:01:50,440 --> 01:01:52,730
It's like, OK, I could do a 
year, right? 

1224
01:01:52,740 --> 01:01:55,450
Rough. 
So he was telling him you have a

1225
01:01:55,460 --> 01:01:59,950
sympathetic prosecutor and you 
have a sympathetic judge, so you

1226
01:01:59,960 --> 01:02:05,230
have two things in your favour. 
And so Matt was expecting this 

1227
01:02:05,240 --> 01:02:07,980
to be the six to 12 month 
sentence. 

1228
01:02:08,650 --> 01:02:12,460
But a week before his sentencing
hearing, he called his attorney 

1229
01:02:13,090 --> 01:02:16,320
and he said, I've got a really 
bad feeling about March the 3rd,

1230
01:02:16,530 --> 01:02:18,270
he says. 
You know, they scheduled it on 

1231
01:02:18,280 --> 01:02:21,480
the day of my mother's death. 
That's the anniversary of her 

1232
01:02:21,490 --> 01:02:25,060
death. 
And I don't believe that was a 

1233
01:02:25,070 --> 01:02:27,660
coincidence. 
I believe they scheduled it on 

1234
01:02:27,670 --> 01:02:31,310
that date on purpose. 
And his attorney says, well, 

1235
01:02:31,320 --> 01:02:33,370
I've got, I've got bad news for 
you, Matt. 

1236
01:02:33,880 --> 01:02:37,510
First of all, they've postponed 
the hearing to April Fool's Day.

1237
01:02:38,610 --> 01:02:41,860
And second of all, the 
prosecution is seeking to add a 

1238
01:02:41,870 --> 01:02:44,930
sentencing enhancement of 
terrorism. 

1239
01:02:46,420 --> 01:02:49,350
And if you know, they're going 
to present this at the at the 

1240
01:02:49,360 --> 01:02:53,970
hearing and it basically would 
try to sway the judge into 

1241
01:02:53,980 --> 01:02:59,360
giving Matt more time in gaol. 
And Matt called me on the phone.

1242
01:03:00,530 --> 01:03:04,760
It was in the afternoon and I 
didn't even couldn't even 

1243
01:03:04,770 --> 01:03:07,680
understand him. 
He was stuttering so bad and 

1244
01:03:07,690 --> 01:03:12,210
sobbing so hard. 
It was the most heartbreaking 

1245
01:03:12,470 --> 01:03:15,210
conversation I had had with him 
up to this point. 

1246
01:03:16,700 --> 01:03:19,990
And he said I must be guilty. 
And Jerry, they keep telling me 

1247
01:03:20,000 --> 01:03:23,080
I'm guilty. 
Even his attorney had said, 

1248
01:03:23,750 --> 01:03:26,240
Matt. 
Matt you're going to have to man

1249
01:03:26,250 --> 01:03:31,300
up and and and take take your 
your punishment on this and I 

1250
01:03:31,310 --> 01:03:34,690
said he said that to you and I 
couldn't believe it He's only 

1251
01:03:34,700 --> 01:03:37,740
attorney said that to him it's 
like everybody had just turned 

1252
01:03:37,750 --> 01:03:40,950
against him. 
And Matt said, they're going to 

1253
01:03:40,960 --> 01:03:43,170
put me away for a long time. 
I know they are. 

1254
01:03:43,220 --> 01:03:45,450
I know they are. 
I said, Matt, please, you have 

1255
01:03:45,460 --> 01:03:48,720
faith in God. 
I said let's wait and see what 

1256
01:03:48,730 --> 01:03:51,340
happens. 
Don't, don't jump the gun here. 

1257
01:03:51,350 --> 01:03:53,390
We're going to, we're going to 
pray. 

1258
01:03:53,400 --> 01:03:56,800
We're going to have faith like 
you've had faith God is not 

1259
01:03:56,810 --> 01:04:01,700
going to see you fall. 
And he told me he was crying. 

1260
01:04:01,710 --> 01:04:05,900
He says, Jerry and Jerry 
promised me, promise me you'll 

1261
01:04:05,910 --> 01:04:09,940
get my dad to move to Florida. 
And I said, Matt, I'm doing my 

1262
01:04:09,950 --> 01:04:13,160
best there, but I was not quite 
understanding where he was going

1263
01:04:13,170 --> 01:04:15,260
with it. 
And then he says, Aunt Jerry, 

1264
01:04:15,270 --> 01:04:18,220
I'm so sorry you lost all of 
your friends because of me. 

1265
01:04:19,200 --> 01:04:21,470
And I said, Matt, don't worry 
about them, They weren't 

1266
01:04:21,480 --> 01:04:22,920
friends. 
They weren't friends. 

1267
01:04:22,930 --> 01:04:26,290
He said no, he says I I lost 
your friends for you. 

1268
01:04:26,300 --> 01:04:29,250
I embarrassed you and and caused
you so much grief. 

1269
01:04:29,260 --> 01:04:31,350
And I said, no, Matt, you're 
more important to me than 

1270
01:04:31,360 --> 01:04:34,990
anybody else. 
And I said, I love you so much. 

1271
01:04:35,000 --> 01:04:36,470
I said we're going to get 
through this. 

1272
01:04:36,560 --> 01:04:38,270
He said, I love you too, Aunt 
Jerry. 

1273
01:04:38,820 --> 01:04:41,910
And he hung up the phone. 
That was on a Monday. 

1274
01:04:43,560 --> 01:04:49,080
That Friday at 6:00 in the 
evening, my phone rang and it 

1275
01:04:49,090 --> 01:04:52,690
was one of my brothers and he 
said you need to come home. 

1276
01:04:53,610 --> 01:04:55,500
He said. 
Matt just hanged himself in his 

1277
01:04:55,510 --> 01:05:00,050
garage. 
It's awful. 

1278
01:05:00,300 --> 01:05:04,070
It's truly awful and it's and 
even in that compassionate sort 

1279
01:05:04,080 --> 01:05:06,390
of sensation that he had he was 
trying to organise all the 

1280
01:05:06,400 --> 01:05:09,630
things to to be to be ready for.
I mean he took it on himself. 

1281
01:05:09,640 --> 01:05:12,220
It sounds like he took all the 
burden I've I've been to these 

1282
01:05:12,230 --> 01:05:13,910
scenes. 
It's the it's the saddest thing.

1283
01:05:13,960 --> 01:05:17,250
You go there somebody who who's 
been spiralling and everyone can

1284
01:05:17,260 --> 01:05:19,230
see it. 
Nobody can see it until after 

1285
01:05:19,240 --> 01:05:20,550
the fact. 
They go God, of course. 

1286
01:05:21,210 --> 01:05:23,570
But nobody knows. 
You can never know what's going 

1287
01:05:23,580 --> 01:05:26,010
on in someone's head and how 
desperate it must have felt. 

1288
01:05:26,020 --> 01:05:28,400
And I'm sure it must have felt 
absolutely desperate because you

1289
01:05:28,410 --> 01:05:29,710
have the way of the federal 
government on. 

1290
01:05:31,210 --> 01:05:35,480
His country had turned on him, 
the country he loved. 

1291
01:05:36,920 --> 01:05:41,780
This government failed him. 
So many people failed him. 

1292
01:05:41,950 --> 01:05:43,520
What about the? 
Prosecutor, I know you've had 

1293
01:05:43,530 --> 01:05:45,840
some poignant moments. 
Did you How did that? 

1294
01:05:45,850 --> 01:05:47,880
You had a conversation with the 
prosecutor at some point. 

1295
01:05:47,890 --> 01:05:52,540
How did that come about? 
After Matt died, I wanted the 

1296
01:05:52,550 --> 01:05:57,050
paperwork from his case and I 
had one of my brothers go to his

1297
01:05:57,060 --> 01:06:01,990
attorney's office and request 
all of the paperwork and it it 

1298
01:06:02,000 --> 01:06:04,300
wasn't complete. 
I know it wasn't complete, but 

1299
01:06:04,310 --> 01:06:08,280
there was a lot of email 
exchanges and and motions that 

1300
01:06:08,290 --> 01:06:11,700
were filed and it was all thrown
into this box and it was all 

1301
01:06:11,710 --> 01:06:14,180
mixed up. 
And I honestly believe it was on

1302
01:06:14,190 --> 01:06:17,520
purpose because I don't believe 
his attorney did his job. 

1303
01:06:17,530 --> 01:06:21,530
I don't, but I got this box of 
paperwork and it was just a 

1304
01:06:21,540 --> 01:06:23,670
mess. 
And I sat here one day and I was

1305
01:06:23,680 --> 01:06:27,090
spreading it all over the floor 
in my bedroom, trying to put it 

1306
01:06:27,100 --> 01:06:32,010
in chronological order. 
And I came across this one email

1307
01:06:32,560 --> 01:06:36,910
from the prosecutor to Matt's 
attorney, and it had his name 

1308
01:06:36,920 --> 01:06:38,930
and phone number on the on the 
paper. 

1309
01:06:40,260 --> 01:06:42,910
And I didn't think twice about 
it. 

1310
01:06:42,920 --> 01:06:47,070
I picked up the phone. 
I dialled the number and I left 

1311
01:06:47,080 --> 01:06:51,600
a voicemail for him and about an
hour later I get a phone call 

1312
01:06:51,610 --> 01:06:54,350
back and it was an operator, she
said. 

1313
01:06:54,360 --> 01:06:58,310
This is an operator in the 
prosecutor's office and I want 

1314
01:06:58,320 --> 01:07:01,630
you to know that you are on a 
recorded line with several 

1315
01:07:01,640 --> 01:07:05,090
witnesses. 
And I was thinking to myself, 

1316
01:07:05,460 --> 01:07:07,460
fine, you know, what do you 
think that is? 

1317
01:07:07,470 --> 01:07:10,080
That is really. 
Strange, just just for what it's

1318
01:07:10,090 --> 01:07:12,390
worth, cause I've called AUS as 
many times. 

1319
01:07:12,400 --> 01:07:14,640
I've never had anybody say that.
I don't know that they record 

1320
01:07:14,650 --> 01:07:16,740
them, but they obviously set 
this thing up to do that 

1321
01:07:17,160 --> 01:07:18,720
exactly. 
They knew who they were called. 

1322
01:07:19,490 --> 01:07:20,400
Right. 
OK. 

1323
01:07:20,410 --> 01:07:23,800
And so I thought to myself, 
well, I know what to say and 

1324
01:07:23,810 --> 01:07:25,830
what not to say, and I'm 
certainly not going to make a 

1325
01:07:25,840 --> 01:07:28,020
threat. 
That's not in me, Kyle. 

1326
01:07:28,030 --> 01:07:29,820
I'm not the type of person 
that's going to threaten 

1327
01:07:29,830 --> 01:07:33,710
anybody. 
So it took a couple of minutes 

1328
01:07:33,720 --> 01:07:37,170
and the prosecutor picked up the
phone and I told him who I was, 

1329
01:07:37,180 --> 01:07:41,940
which I know he knew who I was. 
And he says, well, let me just 

1330
01:07:41,950 --> 01:07:46,860
start off by saying that myself 
and many people in our 

1331
01:07:46,870 --> 01:07:50,180
department, and I'm assuming he 
means the Department of Justice,

1332
01:07:50,920 --> 01:07:54,460
we're very saddened to hear that
Matthew took his life. 

1333
01:07:55,760 --> 01:08:01,100
And I said you and the people in
your department are the reason 

1334
01:08:01,150 --> 01:08:05,870
Matthew took his life. 
And I said, I don't understand 

1335
01:08:05,880 --> 01:08:09,290
for the life of me, knowing 
everything about my nephew's 

1336
01:08:09,300 --> 01:08:15,130
case, how you could have come up
with this enhancement for his 

1337
01:08:15,140 --> 01:08:18,229
sentencing hearing, this 
terrorism enhancement. 

1338
01:08:19,310 --> 01:08:24,300
And he said if Matthew just 
could have waited another month 

1339
01:08:24,350 --> 01:08:28,660
until his hearing, I don't 
believe the enhancement would 

1340
01:08:28,670 --> 01:08:33,370
have stuck with his judge and my
heart. 

1341
01:08:35,939 --> 01:08:39,069
I was. 
I I can't even tell you it was 

1342
01:08:39,080 --> 01:08:42,710
just empty, because at that 
point I knew. 

1343
01:08:43,490 --> 01:08:45,819
But this was just an idle 
threat. 

1344
01:08:47,270 --> 01:08:51,130
That they made. 
And my nephew acted upon that 

1345
01:08:51,140 --> 01:08:54,640
threat. 
And this guy didn't even think 

1346
01:08:54,649 --> 01:08:57,859
it would have stuck. 
It was political posturing. 

1347
01:08:58,310 --> 01:09:01,700
Yes, and I said, Do you 
understand that it was that 

1348
01:09:01,710 --> 01:09:05,380
threat that caused my nephew to 
hang himself? 

1349
01:09:06,640 --> 01:09:09,180
I said, what is wrong with you? 
What did he say? 

1350
01:09:09,189 --> 01:09:12,350
I said. 
These are human beings that 

1351
01:09:12,359 --> 01:09:16,290
you're dealing with and our 
family is never going to recover

1352
01:09:16,300 --> 01:09:20,040
from this and I hope that when 
you go to bed each night. 

1353
01:09:21,000 --> 01:09:25,029
My nephew Matthew Perna will be 
the last person you think of 

1354
01:09:25,080 --> 01:09:28,950
every night when you close your 
eyes and the role that you 

1355
01:09:28,960 --> 01:09:33,430
played in his death. 
And I no response you. 

1356
01:09:33,439 --> 01:09:35,529
Didn't you didn't hear anything?
Responded what? 

1357
01:09:36,310 --> 01:09:38,430
How do you think that was 
received, out of curiosity? 

1358
01:09:39,630 --> 01:09:41,290
Based on the tone of voice. 
That you heard earlier. 

1359
01:09:42,010 --> 01:09:47,220
You know, unless I was talking 
to Satan himself, that man had 

1360
01:09:47,229 --> 01:09:51,380
to be affected by my phone call.
He had to have. 

1361
01:09:53,200 --> 01:09:59,230
And another thing that I did 
after, I think it was after that

1362
01:09:59,240 --> 01:10:05,120
phone call, I sent a letter to 
Matt's judge registered mail. 

1363
01:10:06,270 --> 01:10:09,920
I wrote him a letter. 
I told him who I was. 

1364
01:10:10,870 --> 01:10:14,420
I told him about Matt. 
What a wonderful person he was. 

1365
01:10:16,180 --> 01:10:19,680
And I asked that judge in the in
my letter if he would please 

1366
01:10:20,500 --> 01:10:25,290
start looking at these people as
human beings and treating them 

1367
01:10:25,300 --> 01:10:29,770
as such, and understanding that 
they have families who love them

1368
01:10:30,140 --> 01:10:34,290
and that one moment of of a 
mistake in their life shouldn't 

1369
01:10:34,300 --> 01:10:38,820
cost them what it costs. 
My nephew and I said, please, I 

1370
01:10:38,830 --> 01:10:43,060
beg you in the future when these
people come across your court. 

1371
01:10:44,170 --> 01:10:47,820
Have mercy on them. 
The mercy that wasn't shown to 

1372
01:10:47,830 --> 01:10:52,600
my nephew. 
I don't know if that impacted 

1373
01:10:52,610 --> 01:10:57,580
any anything, but I will say 
this, there was a person that 

1374
01:10:57,590 --> 01:10:59,820
reached out to me on Twitter 
about a month ago. 

1375
01:11:01,710 --> 01:11:04,710
Young guy with two children and 
beautiful wife. 

1376
01:11:06,000 --> 01:11:10,660
And he reached out to me because
he had the same charges as Matt 

1377
01:11:12,970 --> 01:11:16,910
and he felt very desperate. 
And I get a lot of these Kyle. 

1378
01:11:16,920 --> 01:11:20,320
There were people from January 
6, they're so desperate. 

1379
01:11:21,220 --> 01:11:26,550
And I tell them, please, taking 
your life is going to leave a 

1380
01:11:26,560 --> 01:11:31,860
pet A and destruction in your 
family that they will never 

1381
01:11:31,870 --> 01:11:34,220
recover from. 
You don't want to do that. 

1382
01:11:34,880 --> 01:11:37,370
And this guy had two beautiful 
children and a wife. 

1383
01:11:37,380 --> 01:11:39,890
Matt didn't have any children. 
He wasn't married. 

1384
01:11:40,890 --> 01:11:45,780
I can't imagine the impact that 
would have on on this guy's wife

1385
01:11:45,870 --> 01:11:47,880
and children. 
He says. 

1386
01:11:47,890 --> 01:11:51,500
Well, the reason I feel such a 
connection to Matt is because I 

1387
01:11:51,510 --> 01:11:55,810
have his same judge, he said. 
I have the same charges. 

1388
01:11:56,720 --> 01:11:59,490
And I'm feeling just as 
desperate as he is right now. 

1389
01:12:00,770 --> 01:12:02,610
I told him I would be praying 
for him. 

1390
01:12:03,920 --> 01:12:08,840
And I would I and I was here for
him if he needed me, I said 

1391
01:12:08,850 --> 01:12:11,190
Please update me once you have 
your sentencing. 

1392
01:12:13,210 --> 01:12:17,130
He got back with me. 
The day of his sentencing. 

1393
01:12:18,930 --> 01:12:23,200
The judge. 
Gave him 12 days in prison, in 

1394
01:12:23,210 --> 01:12:31,190
gaol and a $5000 fine. 
And it as much as I was happy 

1395
01:12:31,200 --> 01:12:36,990
for this guy. 
There was this huge, selfish 

1396
01:12:37,000 --> 01:12:44,340
part of me that was so pissed. 
With Matt going to get 10 days 

1397
01:12:44,350 --> 01:12:49,490
in gaol, 12 days in gaol, 30 
days if he just stuck it out. 

1398
01:12:51,730 --> 01:12:57,160
Or is it possible that my letter
to the judge changed his outlook

1399
01:12:57,410 --> 01:12:59,760
on these people from January 
6th? 

1400
01:12:59,830 --> 01:13:02,260
Yeah. 
And I will never know. 

1401
01:13:02,950 --> 01:13:06,480
And as happy as I wanted to be 
for this man I was, I was 

1402
01:13:06,490 --> 01:13:08,880
jealous. 
For Matt. 

1403
01:13:09,630 --> 01:13:11,980
If that makes any sense. 
It makes a lot of sense. 

1404
01:13:11,990 --> 01:13:14,900
Actually, and there's something 
to be said, I mean. 

1405
01:13:16,170 --> 01:13:17,860
Like I said, a lot of. 
Times we see things in the 

1406
01:13:17,870 --> 01:13:20,780
rearview mirror that we can't 
see when it's happening. 

1407
01:13:20,950 --> 01:13:23,140
You told us the story about 
Matthew's life. 

1408
01:13:23,150 --> 01:13:26,590
You told us about how he was 
willing to lose his job, his 

1409
01:13:26,600 --> 01:13:29,140
temporary comfort, something he 
wasn't into. 

1410
01:13:29,230 --> 01:13:30,700
He didn't. 
He didn't need it. 

1411
01:13:30,710 --> 01:13:33,140
He didn't need the job, but it 
was a job and it was paying him.

1412
01:13:33,180 --> 01:13:35,880
And he said no, no, take me save
this person. 

1413
01:13:36,030 --> 01:13:38,780
And in some ways we can see a 
parallel in a much bigger way, 

1414
01:13:38,790 --> 01:13:41,420
obviously. 
With, you know, is that a 

1415
01:13:41,430 --> 01:13:44,080
sacrifice that he was put on the
earth to be making and say this 

1416
01:13:44,090 --> 01:13:47,420
man with these kids, you know, 
maybe that's some peace, it's 

1417
01:13:47,430 --> 01:13:49,480
horrible. 
It's, it's such a hopeless 

1418
01:13:49,490 --> 01:13:52,760
scenario to imagine the weight 
of the federal government and 

1419
01:13:52,770 --> 01:13:55,780
it's and so many of these people
I think are in there all by 

1420
01:13:55,790 --> 01:13:57,880
themselves. 
And that's the scary thing. 

1421
01:13:59,970 --> 01:14:02,190
There's not another. 
Person that is experiencing 

1422
01:14:02,200 --> 01:14:04,560
exactly the same police state 
actions. 

1423
01:14:04,570 --> 01:14:07,340
I'm going I'm going to tie this 
back in but there's they're not 

1424
01:14:07,350 --> 01:14:10,120
experiencing it's the the saving
grace for me and my friends. 

1425
01:14:10,130 --> 01:14:12,430
I felt those feelings of dread. 
My buddies and I are all 

1426
01:14:12,440 --> 01:14:14,760
carrying the same but at the 
same time there's more of us and

1427
01:14:14,770 --> 01:14:17,680
Matthew is all by himself and 
got crushed literally crushed 

1428
01:14:18,850 --> 01:14:22,130
emotionally and and and and 
physically and wasn't able to to

1429
01:14:22,140 --> 01:14:23,500
bear the weight which is 
incredible. 

1430
01:14:23,570 --> 01:14:26,520
I mean nobody can know it until 
you know it An unknown amount of

1431
01:14:26,530 --> 01:14:29,680
time with an unknown amount of 
you know, non human. 

1432
01:14:29,770 --> 01:14:32,110
Interaction It's We talked about
social media earlier. 

1433
01:14:32,200 --> 01:14:35,070
Zoom calls to decide your fate 
for God knows how long. 

1434
01:14:35,750 --> 01:14:37,680
Right, it's so. 
Impersonal. 

1435
01:14:37,690 --> 01:14:39,980
And it's so inhuman. 
It's the opposite of what our 

1436
01:14:40,030 --> 01:14:43,040
our, our scenarios and our and 
our government was set up to do.

1437
01:14:43,190 --> 01:14:46,120
You know of the people, by the 
people with a jury of your 

1438
01:14:46,130 --> 01:14:47,340
peers. 
It's none of that. 

1439
01:14:47,790 --> 01:14:50,830
That didn't happen for him, you 
know, and doesn't feel like 

1440
01:14:50,840 --> 01:14:54,510
justice at. 
All these people, they're 

1441
01:14:54,520 --> 01:14:56,700
they're not given their due 
process, right? 

1442
01:14:56,760 --> 01:14:59,660
You're talking about people who 
haven't had their court, they in

1443
01:14:59,670 --> 01:15:01,540
court yet. 
It's been almost three years. 

1444
01:15:02,250 --> 01:15:04,300
There are people that are 
sitting in gaol waiting for 

1445
01:15:04,310 --> 01:15:08,740
their court hearings when under 
normal circumstances they would 

1446
01:15:08,750 --> 01:15:11,480
not have been sentenced as long 
as they've been sitting in gaol.

1447
01:15:12,500 --> 01:15:16,490
I mean, it's, it's beyond the 
scope of your constitutional 

1448
01:15:16,500 --> 01:15:18,190
rights. 
We're past that. 

1449
01:15:18,200 --> 01:15:20,010
They're they're being ignored 
completely. 

1450
01:15:20,020 --> 01:15:21,990
Yeah, this is a human. 
Dignity issue, yeah. 

1451
01:15:22,000 --> 01:15:24,510
It's not about what something in
the Bill of Rights says, which 

1452
01:15:24,520 --> 01:15:26,070
is pretty it's pretty 
formalised. 

1453
01:15:26,220 --> 01:15:28,570
We're talking about what's 
decent and what's OK, what's 

1454
01:15:28,580 --> 01:15:31,620
right and righteous. 
And the other thing is this, 

1455
01:15:31,630 --> 01:15:34,380
Kyle, they're pleading guilty 
because they're not going to 

1456
01:15:34,390 --> 01:15:36,840
receive a fair trial in DC, 
right? 

1457
01:15:36,910 --> 01:15:41,270
And you know. 
Louie Gohmert drafted the 

1458
01:15:41,350 --> 01:15:45,140
Matthew Lawrence Purna Act of 
2022 and Marjorie Taylor Green 

1459
01:15:45,150 --> 01:15:49,020
had Co sponsored the bill. 
And part of that bill includes 

1460
01:15:49,070 --> 01:15:53,470
allowing for a change of venue 
because these people that have 

1461
01:15:53,480 --> 01:15:57,020
been charged in January 6 are 
being made to have their trials 

1462
01:15:57,030 --> 01:16:00,760
in DC, a Democrat city. 
They're not going to have a fair

1463
01:16:00,770 --> 01:16:04,070
trial. 
And so they're pleading guilty. 

1464
01:16:04,740 --> 01:16:08,930
And I believe with all my heart,
this is exactly what the 

1465
01:16:08,940 --> 01:16:12,610
Department of Justice wants. 
They want you to plead guilty. 

1466
01:16:12,660 --> 01:16:15,910
They want you to admit you did 
something wrong, even if you 

1467
01:16:15,920 --> 01:16:18,960
know in your heart you didn't. 
And. 

1468
01:16:19,150 --> 01:16:21,940
And what's the first person, the
first thing the people on the 

1469
01:16:21,950 --> 01:16:23,960
left say? 
Well, they pled guilty. 

1470
01:16:24,040 --> 01:16:26,440
They must have done it. 
I still get it on my Twitter 

1471
01:16:26,450 --> 01:16:27,760
feed. 
Well, he pled guilty. 

1472
01:16:27,770 --> 01:16:30,960
Your son, your nephews, guilty. 
He was just a coward. 

1473
01:16:30,970 --> 01:16:32,980
And that's why he killed 
himself, because he didn't want 

1474
01:16:32,990 --> 01:16:36,400
to serve out his sentence. 
Those are the kind of comments I

1475
01:16:36,410 --> 01:16:37,890
get. 
Yeah, it's it's soulless. 

1476
01:16:37,900 --> 01:16:40,280
I mean, it really is. 
It's just absolute gallery. 

1477
01:16:40,290 --> 01:16:43,220
But the sad thing is, is those 
are the same people that would 

1478
01:16:43,230 --> 01:16:45,800
say just because someone pled 
guilty and if they were black, 

1479
01:16:45,930 --> 01:16:47,810
they would, they would lionise 
them and say, well, that's 

1480
01:16:47,820 --> 01:16:49,560
because the weapon. 
Weaponization of the justice 

1481
01:16:49,570 --> 01:16:53,550
system against them. 
There there's no reason or 

1482
01:16:53,560 --> 01:16:56,320
accountability as we said 
earlier and and unfortunately. 

1483
01:16:57,290 --> 01:17:00,900
It's like we have to win, and 
the way we win is on top of the 

1484
01:17:00,910 --> 01:17:03,600
lives of people who by all 
accounts it sounds it was 

1485
01:17:03,610 --> 01:17:04,890
Matthew. 
Was he ever in a fight that you 

1486
01:17:04,900 --> 01:17:05,980
know of? 
Did you ever get a physical 

1487
01:17:05,990 --> 01:17:09,030
altercation with anybody? 
No, you know. 

1488
01:17:09,100 --> 01:17:11,420
And did he show up to fight on 
on that day, you know, the 

1489
01:17:11,430 --> 01:17:13,890
videos you see of him, or was he
getting combative with people? 

1490
01:17:14,630 --> 01:17:20,810
No, he had an American flag and 
he had a a MAGA hat on, right? 

1491
01:17:20,850 --> 01:17:23,290
He didn't show, but he didn't 
show up with plate carriers and 

1492
01:17:23,300 --> 01:17:26,290
and and body armour and and an 
AR15 strapped across his chest. 

1493
01:17:26,300 --> 01:17:27,770
He wasn't there to take over 
something. 

1494
01:17:27,820 --> 01:17:30,290
I mean, we hear these stories. 
I, like I said, it was obvious 

1495
01:17:30,300 --> 01:17:32,020
to me as someone who was 
investigating. 

1496
01:17:32,800 --> 01:17:33,960
I mean, I don't know what I 
would call it. 

1497
01:17:33,970 --> 01:17:35,920
I was just getting leads. 
It was leads from people who 

1498
01:17:35,930 --> 01:17:38,880
just were just seemed like 
assholes in the world and they 

1499
01:17:38,890 --> 01:17:41,250
were just saying horrible things
about people that they barely 

1500
01:17:41,260 --> 01:17:43,040
knew. 
We'd get them in and it's like, 

1501
01:17:43,050 --> 01:17:44,730
this is trash. 
Why would you investigate this? 

1502
01:17:45,630 --> 01:17:48,340
And a fundamentally unfair 
process has been taking place on

1503
01:17:48,350 --> 01:17:50,010
there. 
It's why we keep sharing these 

1504
01:17:50,020 --> 01:17:51,360
stories. 
I've had the Proud Boys on that 

1505
01:17:51,370 --> 01:17:55,020
were sentenced to unbelievable 
amounts of time, 25 years, 32 

1506
01:17:55,030 --> 01:17:56,720
years. 
You know, we brought him on for 

1507
01:17:56,730 --> 01:17:57,630
the same reasons. 
It's like. 

1508
01:17:58,490 --> 01:18:01,680
How do you even square that when
we know that people that have 

1509
01:18:01,690 --> 01:18:04,230
raped children are are out, or 
people that have done child 

1510
01:18:04,240 --> 01:18:07,570
pornography, made it, 
distributed, shared it there in 

1511
01:18:07,580 --> 01:18:10,100
the months they're measuring 
their sentences and months and 

1512
01:18:10,110 --> 01:18:12,640
they've irreparably damaged 
things that will never be right,

1513
01:18:12,650 --> 01:18:13,820
like children that will never be
right. 

1514
01:18:15,380 --> 01:18:19,970
Now, and they and and they're 
getting that slap on the wrist 

1515
01:18:20,130 --> 01:18:22,690
that Matt was promised a slap on
the wrist. 

1516
01:18:23,520 --> 01:18:26,230
How do you precedent it? 
How do you do? 

1517
01:18:26,240 --> 01:18:27,290
How do you? 
Go through your day. 

1518
01:18:27,350 --> 01:18:28,440
I mean, how do you go through 
your day? 

1519
01:18:28,450 --> 01:18:31,280
Can you forgive these people? 
Can you forgive the people that 

1520
01:18:31,290 --> 01:18:32,430
were involved in this? 
Are you? 

1521
01:18:32,440 --> 01:18:33,870
Is that something you're working
towards? 

1522
01:18:35,270 --> 01:18:38,910
You know, they say you have to 
forgive your enemies. 

1523
01:18:38,920 --> 01:18:41,340
You have to forgive them. 
I find it very difficult. 

1524
01:18:42,010 --> 01:18:47,380
I want to see justice. 
I don't mean in a monetary way. 

1525
01:18:47,430 --> 01:18:50,460
I want to see the people 
accountable, held accountable. 

1526
01:18:51,220 --> 01:18:54,430
I want to see that in in my 
lifetime. 

1527
01:18:54,900 --> 01:18:57,840
I would love to see the truth 
come out and the people behind 

1528
01:18:57,850 --> 01:19:01,950
this entire setup, the exposed, 
but I think you and I both know 

1529
01:19:01,960 --> 01:19:05,170
that's never going to happen. 
It's not going to happen. 

1530
01:19:06,040 --> 01:19:12,590
So I guess maybe someday I'll 
have forgiveness in my heart for

1531
01:19:12,600 --> 01:19:18,100
what was done to him. 
Um, but it's not anytime soon. 

1532
01:19:18,170 --> 01:19:22,880
This is all too fresh. 
Our family has to live with this

1533
01:19:22,890 --> 01:19:24,550
every day. 
You know, everybody has a little

1534
01:19:24,560 --> 01:19:26,480
bit of guilt in them. 
I should have done more. 

1535
01:19:26,490 --> 01:19:29,760
I wish I could have been there, 
or maybe had for myself when I 

1536
01:19:29,770 --> 01:19:31,150
talked to him on the phone that 
day. 

1537
01:19:31,160 --> 01:19:32,470
I should have booked the plane 
ticket. 

1538
01:19:32,480 --> 01:19:35,980
I should have flown home, but 
who's to say that the minute I 

1539
01:19:35,990 --> 01:19:39,300
got back on a plane to come 
home, he wouldn't have done it 

1540
01:19:39,310 --> 01:19:43,760
Then I couldn't be there to hold
his hand 24 hours a day. 

1541
01:19:45,030 --> 01:19:50,100
And I feel guilty about that. 
So I try to help other J Sixers 

1542
01:19:50,110 --> 01:19:53,490
as best I can. 
And you know, I was on Twitter. 

1543
01:19:53,940 --> 01:19:57,870
It was last month and I made I 
put a tweet out there that if 

1544
01:19:57,880 --> 01:20:01,880
anybody needs somebody to talk 
to from January 6th, please just

1545
01:20:01,890 --> 01:20:05,210
send me a DM. 
And somebody came on and said, 

1546
01:20:05,220 --> 01:20:07,460
well, you weren't you didn't 
have a very good track record 

1547
01:20:07,470 --> 01:20:09,230
with your nephew. 
Why would they bother? 

1548
01:20:10,430 --> 01:20:13,760
And I just there stays. 
I'm defeated. 

1549
01:20:14,110 --> 01:20:16,470
Yep. 
There are days I am so defeated.

1550
01:20:17,780 --> 01:20:20,340
But there are days I am so angry
that I will. 

1551
01:20:21,470 --> 01:20:27,250
I will fight as hard as I can. 
So it's a roller coaster, Yeah. 

1552
01:20:27,550 --> 01:20:29,610
That's probably gonna be like 
that for a long time, I think. 

1553
01:20:29,620 --> 01:20:32,560
I'm I think. 
You're you're experiencing 

1554
01:20:32,570 --> 01:20:35,340
something and I think this tells
an important story because I 

1555
01:20:35,350 --> 01:20:37,540
think a lot of people probably 
were like why, why is this aunt 

1556
01:20:37,550 --> 01:20:39,220
the one talking? 
I'm glad that we were able to 

1557
01:20:39,230 --> 01:20:40,540
put that out there. 
Like I said, I haven't heard 

1558
01:20:40,550 --> 01:20:42,490
anywhere else. 
I know there was the story there

1559
01:20:42,500 --> 01:20:43,720
behind it. 
I wanted people to be able to 

1560
01:20:43,730 --> 01:20:46,020
experience that at least a 
little bit of how close your 

1561
01:20:46,030 --> 01:20:50,430
connection was and and that your
sister in law was you know, 

1562
01:20:50,440 --> 01:20:51,490
someone that was that close to 
you. 

1563
01:20:51,500 --> 01:20:53,360
And how you've kind of come to 
be standing in and be an 

1564
01:20:53,370 --> 01:20:55,680
advocate for Matt in this 
scenario which is really 

1565
01:20:55,690 --> 01:20:58,170
important. 
It's I mean, we can't let these 

1566
01:20:58,180 --> 01:21:00,890
stories fall apart and and fall 
away from the public. 

1567
01:21:01,670 --> 01:21:04,060
I wonder if you can kind of talk
about maybe as a wrap up. 

1568
01:21:04,950 --> 01:21:06,440
How? 
And I'm sorry, I'm looking off 

1569
01:21:06,450 --> 01:21:07,520
cameras. 
I'm just trying to just kind of 

1570
01:21:07,530 --> 01:21:11,830
compose my thoughts on it, but. 
How does your experience? 

1571
01:21:11,840 --> 01:21:13,100
Seeing what happened to your 
nephew. 

1572
01:21:13,800 --> 01:21:18,200
Affect your view of what this 
country means to you and your 

1573
01:21:18,210 --> 01:21:21,060
family at this point and maybe 
if you can, differentiate the 

1574
01:21:21,070 --> 01:21:23,870
difference between what our 
country is and means and what 

1575
01:21:23,880 --> 01:21:26,440
this government. 
Is and does. 

1576
01:21:27,060 --> 01:21:29,020
And maybe you can kind of 
reflect on that in the in the 

1577
01:21:29,030 --> 01:21:30,740
nature of, I know we both 
participated in this movie 

1578
01:21:30,750 --> 01:21:32,610
police state. 
We all have kind of a different 

1579
01:21:32,620 --> 01:21:35,110
experience of what it what a 
police state is and why. 

1580
01:21:35,420 --> 01:21:37,930
So maybe you can kind of wrap it
up with that sort of thoughts? 

1581
01:21:38,880 --> 01:21:41,490
I no longer have the pride in 
this country that I used to 

1582
01:21:41,500 --> 01:21:44,990
have. 
We have a flag in our backyard 

1583
01:21:45,080 --> 01:21:49,050
that flies and I I would change 
the flag out every six months. 

1584
01:21:49,060 --> 01:21:52,110
Living in Florida, they don't 
last quite as long down here 

1585
01:21:52,120 --> 01:21:56,390
with the salt air. 
Right now my flag is flying, 

1586
01:21:56,440 --> 01:22:01,230
completely torn and tattered, 
and I will not take it down. 

1587
01:22:02,150 --> 01:22:05,760
I will not change it to a brand 
new one because we are a country

1588
01:22:05,770 --> 01:22:09,660
in distress. 
Matt's dad's flag is still 

1589
01:22:09,670 --> 01:22:13,460
flying the way Matt put it 
there, upside down in his front 

1590
01:22:13,470 --> 01:22:15,770
yard. 
The flag flies upside down in my

1591
01:22:15,780 --> 01:22:22,600
brother's yard right now. 
I hope to goodness that we get a

1592
01:22:22,610 --> 01:22:25,740
president in office this next 
term. 

1593
01:22:26,640 --> 01:22:27,890
Who? 
Knows what they're doing. 

1594
01:22:28,400 --> 01:22:31,830
I hope it's President Trump. 
I hope he pardons the January 

1595
01:22:31,840 --> 01:22:34,140
Sixers. 
Not that it's going to give them

1596
01:22:34,150 --> 01:22:37,540
back their lives. 
But at least it'll exonerate 

1597
01:22:37,550 --> 01:22:41,470
them. 
We are in a police state. 

1598
01:22:42,600 --> 01:22:45,510
We're not headed towards one, we
are in one. 

1599
01:22:46,230 --> 01:22:49,920
And I think it's so subtle at 
times that people don't realise 

1600
01:22:49,930 --> 01:22:52,250
it. 
They don't realise the 

1601
01:22:52,260 --> 01:22:54,890
censorship is all part of a 
police state. 

1602
01:22:54,960 --> 01:22:58,010
It's no different than visiting 
a communist country. 

1603
01:22:58,100 --> 01:23:03,010
I was in Cuba a few years ago. 
We went down for just curiosity 

1604
01:23:03,060 --> 01:23:05,830
trip on a weekend three days in 
Cuba. 

1605
01:23:07,370 --> 01:23:11,680
I'd never understood communism 
until I visited Cuba and how 

1606
01:23:11,690 --> 01:23:15,150
subtle it is. 
It's not people walking the 

1607
01:23:15,160 --> 01:23:23,050
streets with machine guns and 
body armour antagonising people.

1608
01:23:23,100 --> 01:23:26,790
That is not communism. 
Communism is going to the 

1609
01:23:26,800 --> 01:23:30,330
grocery store and only having 
one brand to choose from. 

1610
01:23:31,260 --> 01:23:36,100
Communism is not having any 
Internet service or watching 

1611
01:23:36,110 --> 01:23:39,480
television and not knowing if 
it's a soccer game that's taking

1612
01:23:39,490 --> 01:23:42,020
place now or was it 1 from a 
year ago. 

1613
01:23:43,310 --> 01:23:46,550
The propaganda IS is 
unbelievable. 

1614
01:23:47,550 --> 01:23:50,520
So when I say we're in a police 
state here and people are 

1615
01:23:50,530 --> 01:23:55,280
oblivious to it, you know, it is
these subtle things that are 

1616
01:23:55,290 --> 01:23:59,000
taking place that are causing 
people to not realise that we 

1617
01:23:59,010 --> 01:24:03,660
are, we are limited, we are not 
free anymore. 

1618
01:24:04,780 --> 01:24:07,270
We're not free to do the things 
we used to do. 

1619
01:24:08,300 --> 01:24:11,350
We're not free to speak out 
about anything that we want to 

1620
01:24:11,360 --> 01:24:15,380
talk about, especially if it 
goes against the grain we are 

1621
01:24:15,390 --> 01:24:21,220
being watched and the sooner 
people wake up, the sooner, the 

1622
01:24:21,230 --> 01:24:24,240
sooner we'll be able to get our 
country back, if it's possible. 

1623
01:24:25,800 --> 01:24:31,060
But my flag will stay the way it
is until I see a change in this 

1624
01:24:31,070 --> 01:24:33,260
country. 
And it's a country I could be 

1625
01:24:33,270 --> 01:24:36,200
proud of again. 
I think that I. 

1626
01:24:36,210 --> 01:24:37,980
Think that's gonna resonate with
a lot of people. 

1627
01:24:37,990 --> 01:24:40,870
And I think that as long as 
there's Netflix and there's Uber

1628
01:24:40,880 --> 01:24:44,460
and there's Uber Eats and Costco
is still open, that many people 

1629
01:24:44,690 --> 01:24:47,360
will not have the experience 
that you and your family have 

1630
01:24:47,370 --> 01:24:49,020
had of what it what it looks 
like. 

1631
01:24:49,030 --> 01:24:54,020
It is slow and creeping and it's
it's insidious and self 

1632
01:24:54,030 --> 01:24:55,720
censorship. 
That was something you just said

1633
01:24:55,730 --> 01:24:57,500
right now, people afraid to 
talk. 

1634
01:24:57,510 --> 01:25:00,040
I heard Matt Taibbi talk about 
going to the Soviet Union when 

1635
01:25:00,050 --> 01:25:02,640
he when he used to live over 
there and he said it wasn't what

1636
01:25:02,650 --> 01:25:05,630
people didn't say or it wasn't 
what they said. 

1637
01:25:05,700 --> 01:25:08,220
Whether it was what they did not
say, that they would have 

1638
01:25:08,270 --> 01:25:11,780
mindless chirping conversations,
a lot of what Twitter is such a 

1639
01:25:11,790 --> 01:25:13,980
good name for it. 
I used to hate the name. 

1640
01:25:14,060 --> 01:25:16,500
But it's mindless chirping a lot
of times where people are not 

1641
01:25:16,510 --> 01:25:19,200
saying things of value or of 
consequence or things that are 

1642
01:25:19,210 --> 01:25:21,120
bearing their soul the way you 
just said right now that have 

1643
01:25:21,130 --> 01:25:24,500
impact because those they're 
afraid to, and self censorship 

1644
01:25:24,510 --> 01:25:27,450
is actually the best tool. 
Of the of the police state 

1645
01:25:27,460 --> 01:25:28,450
because you're censoring 
yourself. 

1646
01:25:28,460 --> 01:25:30,520
They don't have to do it. 
They've already taught you to 

1647
01:25:30,530 --> 01:25:33,210
internalise the censorship and 
so they've once that happens and

1648
01:25:33,220 --> 01:25:36,560
there's fear and it's it's comes
from cases like what happened to

1649
01:25:36,570 --> 01:25:39,400
Matthew where. 
Don't be like him. 

1650
01:25:39,410 --> 01:25:42,140
Because it'll happen to you next
is sort of the, the implicit 

1651
01:25:42,150 --> 01:25:44,070
warning that he has. 
Exactly. 

1652
01:25:45,170 --> 01:25:47,530
I know what you've said is going
to impact a lot of people in our

1653
01:25:47,540 --> 01:25:48,870
audience. 
I know that people are going to 

1654
01:25:48,880 --> 01:25:51,920
reach out and connect with you 
both to offer condolences, but 

1655
01:25:51,930 --> 01:25:53,820
also some people are going to be
looking for some support. 

1656
01:25:53,870 --> 01:25:56,700
We have some people that are 
probably facing some tough 

1657
01:25:56,710 --> 01:25:58,570
decisions in the next couple 
weeks and months. 

1658
01:25:58,910 --> 01:26:01,170
Can you share ways that you want
to be in contact with people, 

1659
01:26:01,180 --> 01:26:02,810
how you'd like people to be able
to follow you and and the 

1660
01:26:02,820 --> 01:26:04,970
website and I think we have them
queued up here so we can show 

1661
01:26:04,980 --> 01:26:09,050
them as you talk about. 
Or you can follow me on on XI am

1662
01:26:09,110 --> 01:26:14,710
under my name Jerry Perna, I am 
on Truth Social, just Jerry 65. 

1663
01:26:14,980 --> 01:26:19,770
And you can visit our website, 
rememberingmattperna.com, where 

1664
01:26:19,780 --> 01:26:23,270
you can view a lot of mass 
photography. 

1665
01:26:23,340 --> 01:26:27,880
The different appearances that 
I've made updates. 

1666
01:26:27,940 --> 01:26:30,920
We're in the process of starting
the Matthew Perna Foundation. 

1667
01:26:31,430 --> 01:26:33,900
We hope to have that up by the 
end of the year. 

1668
01:26:34,190 --> 01:26:38,080
We're going to continue Matt's 
generous legacy through the 

1669
01:26:38,090 --> 01:26:40,600
foundation. 
It won't be political because he

1670
01:26:40,610 --> 01:26:44,580
wasn't political, but it'll be 
mostly humanitarian efforts and 

1671
01:26:44,590 --> 01:26:47,010
scholarship funds. 
Um. 

1672
01:26:48,270 --> 01:26:51,320
Also on that website, I would 
like you to watch that video of 

1673
01:26:51,330 --> 01:26:55,680
him on January 6 because it is 
that video that they were using 

1674
01:26:55,910 --> 01:26:57,910
as part of the terrorism 
enhancement. 

1675
01:26:58,250 --> 01:27:02,280
When he said this isn't over 
yet, they took those words out 

1676
01:27:02,290 --> 01:27:06,140
of context from that video and 
they said that was a threat to 

1677
01:27:06,150 --> 01:27:07,960
the US government. 
Of course they did. 

1678
01:27:09,370 --> 01:27:10,880
Yeah, sadly. 
Of course they did. 

1679
01:27:10,950 --> 01:27:14,520
You know there's no. 
Just it's. 

1680
01:27:14,530 --> 01:27:16,450
Soulless. 
And it's a lack of humour, and 

1681
01:27:16,460 --> 01:27:18,310
it's a lack of just even human 
experiences. 

1682
01:27:18,320 --> 01:27:21,570
Once again, that dehumanisation.
Anybody who can listen to those 

1683
01:27:21,580 --> 01:27:23,030
things can hear 10 different 
things. 

1684
01:27:23,560 --> 01:27:26,800
And. 
I hope that there's a a thought 

1685
01:27:26,810 --> 01:27:30,630
that that your letter really did
change the life for that one 

1686
01:27:30,680 --> 01:27:34,180
family and I'm probably others 
who you won't hear about and 

1687
01:27:34,190 --> 01:27:36,430
maybe that's maybe that's the 
legacy we end on there. 

1688
01:27:36,490 --> 01:27:37,850
I really do appreciate you 
coming on here. 

1689
01:27:37,860 --> 01:27:39,870
I know I've been to do this for 
awhile and I appreciate you 

1690
01:27:39,880 --> 01:27:42,850
grabbing me when we're Malago 
and for being brave enough to 

1691
01:27:42,860 --> 01:27:45,090
continue to tell your story. 
I know this is an advocacy thing

1692
01:27:45,100 --> 01:27:48,010
for you now and and making 
yourself available to folks. 

1693
01:27:48,220 --> 01:27:50,290
So Jerry, thanks so much for 
coming on. 

1694
01:27:50,520 --> 01:27:53,380
And and you know, I wish you 
peace and we'll be adding you to

1695
01:27:53,390 --> 01:27:55,160
our prayers as well and I think 
a lot of others will. 

1696
01:27:56,060 --> 01:27:58,110
Thank you so much Kyle for the 
opportunity. 

1697
01:27:58,120 --> 01:28:00,390
I really appreciate it. 
No problem. 

1698
01:28:00,400 --> 01:28:01,640
At all. 
Right ladies and gentlemen, 

1699
01:28:01,650 --> 01:28:03,880
that's Jerry Purna. 
You can find your website. 

1700
01:28:03,890 --> 01:28:05,230
They're all going to be in the 
show notes. 

1701
01:28:05,240 --> 01:28:07,240
We appreciate you sticking 
through and listening to 

1702
01:28:07,250 --> 01:28:09,250
sometimes the hard conversations
that we had here. 

1703
01:28:09,340 --> 01:28:11,770
Not all of them are funny games.
Yesterday was pretty good, 

1704
01:28:11,820 --> 01:28:14,140
pretty fun. 
But just like earlier this week,

1705
01:28:14,150 --> 01:28:15,720
we started off talking about 
that note of dread. 

1706
01:28:15,730 --> 01:28:17,580
When the federal government 
comes to knock on your door 

1707
01:28:17,590 --> 01:28:20,370
across you, what do you do and 
and how do you handle it? 

1708
01:28:20,380 --> 01:28:23,250
And you hope that you can that 
you can look at the example that

1709
01:28:23,260 --> 01:28:24,890
there is a lot out there. 
There are people that are 

1710
01:28:24,900 --> 01:28:26,110
pulling for you and that your 
experience. 

1711
01:28:26,200 --> 01:28:28,400
Alone. 
And please reach out to Jerry. 

1712
01:28:28,410 --> 01:28:30,080
You can reach out to me. 
Of course you can reach out to 

1713
01:28:30,090 --> 01:28:31,350
Greg Boyle. 
You guys know that. 

1714
01:28:31,420 --> 01:28:33,290
Let's pull Garrett's merch real 
quick here. 

1715
01:28:33,300 --> 01:28:35,350
He's been making these shirts. 
This is what keeps his time. 

1716
01:28:35,420 --> 01:28:37,550
This is how he keeps himself out
of the darkness that is out 

1717
01:28:37,560 --> 01:28:38,650
there. 
Check out our merch store. 

1718
01:28:38,660 --> 01:28:41,380
It's the Dash expendables.com. 
You can You're just supporting 

1719
01:28:41,390 --> 01:28:43,240
the Oboyle family as much as 
anything else. 

1720
01:28:43,250 --> 01:28:45,030
You're putting in the basement 
to go out there and stamp out 

1721
01:28:45,040 --> 01:28:46,670
these shirts. 
Instead of thinking about the 

1722
01:28:46,680 --> 01:28:48,970
awful things that are going on 
in the world and that are 

1723
01:28:48,980 --> 01:28:50,740
happening for his employment. 
The fact that they left his 

1724
01:28:50,750 --> 01:28:52,670
family homeless in the middle of
the winter. 

1725
01:28:52,680 --> 01:28:55,520
As winter approaches again, I'd 
much rather him be slamming 

1726
01:28:55,530 --> 01:28:56,690
these things out. 
And of course our. 

1727
01:28:56,810 --> 01:28:59,250
American flags are all upside 
down, just like Jerry talked 

1728
01:28:59,260 --> 01:29:00,980
about. 
They're all flying in a state of

1729
01:29:00,990 --> 01:29:03,870
duress and in distress. 
They're even sitting here on my 

1730
01:29:03,880 --> 01:29:05,730
coffee mug. 
It's upside down. 

1731
01:29:05,800 --> 01:29:07,730
The stars are down. 
They have to be. 

1732
01:29:08,320 --> 01:29:10,750
I will also encourage you guys 
if you want to check out our 

1733
01:29:10,760 --> 01:29:12,220
friends, our sponsors at 
Catholic Vote. 

1734
01:29:12,230 --> 01:29:13,810
You don't have to be a Catholic 
to know. 

1735
01:29:13,860 --> 01:29:16,290
It keeps you knowing what's 
going on in the wider world. 

1736
01:29:16,300 --> 01:29:17,590
There is a lot going on in this 
world. 

1737
01:29:17,600 --> 01:29:20,670
It's worth knowing that the 
stories are many and the hope is

1738
01:29:20,680 --> 01:29:23,570
not it's not fleeting from this 
country, although we are all 

1739
01:29:23,580 --> 01:29:25,290
obviously dealing with an uphill
struggle. 

1740
01:29:25,360 --> 01:29:27,730
So go in them and they are 
fighting the FBI currently right

1741
01:29:27,740 --> 01:29:29,010
now. 
You'll see there's another 

1742
01:29:29,020 --> 01:29:31,930
friend of ours from police state
Mark Hope. 

1743
01:29:31,940 --> 01:29:33,320
He's going to be running for 
office. 

1744
01:29:33,330 --> 01:29:35,530
He's taken his turn. 
Where the DOJ? 

1745
01:29:35,600 --> 01:29:38,300
Came after him and they are 
running a campaign right now to 

1746
01:29:38,310 --> 01:29:40,260
unseat a former FBI agent no 
less. 

1747
01:29:40,420 --> 01:29:43,320
He's trying to get rid of 
Representative Fitzgerald in his

1748
01:29:43,330 --> 01:29:45,410
area so that they can actually 
start acting on behalf of the 

1749
01:29:45,420 --> 01:29:47,280
American people. 
So you can support Mark Health, 

1750
01:29:47,330 --> 01:29:49,380
you can support Catholic Vote, 
you can go and give. 

1751
01:29:49,390 --> 01:29:51,560
If you want to do a monthly 
donation or if you want to do a 

1752
01:29:51,570 --> 01:29:53,320
one time, by all means check 
them out. 

1753
01:29:53,330 --> 01:29:56,220
And they've been sponsoring the 
Kyle Serafin Show since you guys

1754
01:29:56,230 --> 01:29:57,240
have probably started joining 
us. 

1755
01:29:57,250 --> 01:29:59,380
So we really appreciate them. 
That's it. 

1756
01:29:59,390 --> 01:30:01,040
That's all for it folks. 
We got one good review. 

1757
01:30:01,050 --> 01:30:03,220
It's a it's a it's a nice 
review. 

1758
01:30:03,270 --> 01:30:04,820
It's been kind of a rough show 
to watch. 

1759
01:30:04,830 --> 01:30:06,410
I know many of you guys are 
seeing this and thinking. 

1760
01:30:06,970 --> 01:30:09,200
It's pretty heavy. 
This is one is coming from If 

1761
01:30:09,210 --> 01:30:11,500
you leave us a 5 star review on 
Apple, we will read them on the 

1762
01:30:11,510 --> 01:30:12,660
show. 
This one, from November 4th 

1763
01:30:12,670 --> 01:30:17,080
Thumper 93436, says there should
be a Congressional Medal of 

1764
01:30:17,090 --> 01:30:19,560
Honour for civilians. 
Five stars. 

1765
01:30:19,570 --> 01:30:22,020
Kyle deserves a Medal of Honour 
for his courage going unarmed 

1766
01:30:22,030 --> 01:30:23,780
into a fight in the most 
dangerous and unprincipled 

1767
01:30:23,790 --> 01:30:26,100
elements of our government. 
While the bullets may not be 

1768
01:30:26,110 --> 01:30:28,560
flying in this direction, the 
knives are certainly looking for

1769
01:30:28,570 --> 01:30:31,400
his back. 
Each of us, each of these 

1770
01:30:31,410 --> 01:30:33,540
podcasts are awesome in 
preparation and content and 

1771
01:30:33,550 --> 01:30:35,090
presentation. 
He's a gift to the nation. 

1772
01:30:36,010 --> 01:30:39,100
A lot of it is because the the 
the gift of the the the sharing 

1773
01:30:39,110 --> 01:30:40,840
that we get from our guests like
Jerry Perna. 

1774
01:30:40,990 --> 01:30:43,440
So we really do appreciate her 
coming on today and we 

1775
01:30:43,450 --> 01:30:44,720
appreciate you guys as 
listeners. 

1776
01:30:44,790 --> 01:30:47,470
We stream the show at 0930 
every. 

1777
01:30:48,270 --> 01:30:52,300
Monday through Friday, it's 830 
in Texas, America, Liberty Hill,

1778
01:30:52,310 --> 01:30:55,190
TX, where we're coming out of. 
We will be on here tomorrow with

1779
01:30:55,200 --> 01:30:58,660
Steve Friend for friendly Friday
and we'll end the week on an 

1780
01:30:58,670 --> 01:31:00,660
aggressive note as we do going 
into the weekend. 

1781
01:31:00,670 --> 01:31:02,840
Thank you so much for sitting 
with us and joining us. 

1782
01:31:02,890 --> 01:31:05,820
Follow Jerry, like I said in the
in the show description you can 

1783
01:31:05,830 --> 01:31:07,840
find all of the contact 
information that you referenced 

1784
01:31:07,850 --> 01:31:09,710
and we really appreciate it all.
We appreciate you all. 

1785
01:31:09,720 --> 01:31:11,510
God bless you. 
God bless all these families 

1786
01:31:11,520 --> 01:31:13,870
that are going through so much 
tough times in this rough, 

1787
01:31:13,910 --> 01:31:15,560
rough, rough moment for our 
country. 

1788
01:31:15,990 --> 01:31:17,960
We'll see you tomorrow. 
Thanks for listening to the Kyle

1789
01:31:17,970 --> 01:31:20,210
Serafin. 
Go streamed live weekdays on 

1790
01:31:20,220 --> 01:31:24,210
rumble.com/kyle Serafin. 
Follow Kyle on Twitter, Truth, 

1791
01:31:24,220 --> 01:31:27,570
Social and Instagram at Kyle 
Serafin.