1 00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:06,000 Take a look behind the curtain with a real whistle blower, an 2 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:09,480 American patriot prepared to embrace the uncomfortable truth. 3 00:00:09,520 --> 00:00:12,880 Because this program has no time for comforting lies. 4 00:00:13,160 --> 00:00:16,160 Here is civil liberties enthusiast, Second Amendment 5 00:00:16,160 --> 00:00:19,760 defender, and recovering FBI agent Kyle Seraphin. 6 00:00:21,440 --> 00:00:23,720 Well, hello my friends, and welcome to the Kyle Seraphin 7 00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:25,720 show. Today is what's what is today. 8 00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:29,320 It's Tuesday the 19th, it's December 19th, and we have a 9 00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:33,040 fantastic show geared up. I just feel it in my heart that 10 00:00:33,040 --> 00:00:35,360 this is going to be one of those interviews that I'm really going 11 00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:36,600 to enjoy. I think you guys are going to 12 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:39,040 also really enjoy it. We have Douglas Mackey joining 13 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:41,280 us in just a little bit here, and we're going to be talking 14 00:00:41,280 --> 00:00:44,800 live on rumble.com/kyle Seraphin. 15 00:00:44,800 --> 00:00:46,120 If you're somewhere else, go ahead and get there. 16 00:00:46,240 --> 00:00:48,240 If you're watching us on Instagram, you are now on our 17 00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:50,520 first Instagram stream. We're going to be talking to 18 00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:54,360 Douglas about memes, about shit posting about the federal 19 00:00:54,360 --> 00:00:57,120 judiciary, and about the debasing of our judiciary as it 20 00:00:57,120 --> 00:01:01,120 decides to go after what I would say is a pretty clear violation 21 00:01:01,120 --> 00:01:03,480 of a free speech principle. We're not supposed to go into 22 00:01:03,480 --> 00:01:05,319 things that are First Amendment protected. 23 00:01:05,519 --> 00:01:08,520 That's not the case right now. And this story has been on my 24 00:01:08,520 --> 00:01:11,800 radar since it first broke that the DOJ was going after it. 25 00:01:11,800 --> 00:01:13,640 So I'm very excited. I learned about it when I was an 26 00:01:13,640 --> 00:01:16,920 FBI agent, and I'm now following it as a guy who just does a 27 00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:19,640 podcast and just a regular guy sitting here in a chair talking 28 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:21,400 to human beings and getting their story. 29 00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:22,560 So you guys stick around for that. 30 00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:25,000 I want to front load and talk about our sponsors real quick. 31 00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:27,640 We're going to thank them for all their support. 32 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:29,960 It really is because of our sponsors that were able to do 33 00:01:29,960 --> 00:01:31,800 what we do. Talk to the people we talk to, 34 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:33,280 give you the stories that we're able to give you. 35 00:01:33,520 --> 00:01:36,560 So let's start first with my friends over at Catholic Vote 36 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:40,200 who are now running the Catholic Prom King nomination service. 37 00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:42,320 This is a Catholic hero of the year. 38 00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:45,880 It's between me and Mark Out. That's a pretty good company to 39 00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:49,560 be in for me. Mark Out, the pro-life dad who 40 00:01:49,560 --> 00:01:51,840 was out praying in front of an abortion clinic and decided that 41 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:54,760 you can't say nasty things in front of his child, sent the guy 42 00:01:54,760 --> 00:01:57,080 to the ground. Pretty clear self-defense type 43 00:01:57,080 --> 00:01:58,640 stuff. There was some instigation going 44 00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:00,640 on. We've already reached the 45 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:02,800 maximum number of votes that we can do for Catholic Here of the 46 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:03,760 year. If you guys have not done it, 47 00:02:03,760 --> 00:02:06,840 you can go to votedonate.catholicvote.org 48 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:09,560 slash 2023 Hero bracket. You can also just click on the 49 00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:10,720 link. We put it in the description 50 00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:13,200 here for you and I'm voting for Mark Out. 51 00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:14,360 You guys vote for who you need to. 52 00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:17,800 I won't tell you what to do, but I like Mark as a person. 53 00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:21,040 I saw him at the Police Day trailer and the the premiere. 54 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:23,880 He was in that movie as well, did a fantastic job and his 55 00:02:23,880 --> 00:02:28,000 story is 1 where he really faced down a lot of actual evil going 56 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:30,400 on in our federal government. I think that the stakes were 57 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:32,040 slightly higher for him than they were for me. 58 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:34,480 I lost a job. I lost a house. 59 00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:36,080 I lost a lot of my material comfort. 60 00:02:36,200 --> 00:02:39,400 He was looking at losing freedom and he took it to a jury trial 61 00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:41,200 and won. So that's my pitch. 62 00:02:41,440 --> 00:02:42,600 You guys vote for who you need to. 63 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:44,280 I'm not going to be mad if you vote for me. 64 00:02:44,280 --> 00:02:46,560 If you vote for Mark. That's the one that we did and 65 00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:48,280 that we do appreciate you guys supporting Catholic vote. 66 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:51,160 You can also say thanks to our friends over at Patriot Coolers, 67 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:54,360 which is sitting right here. Doug has already seen me sort of 68 00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:57,320 sipping away, getting my caffeine proper levels. 69 00:02:57,440 --> 00:02:59,240 You guys can go to patriotcoolers.com. 70 00:02:59,240 --> 00:03:01,040 The promo code is Kyle. It's just my name. 71 00:03:01,040 --> 00:03:04,280 It's Kyle. That'll save you 10% and you can 72 00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:07,120 check out any number of their products of which I have almost 73 00:03:07,120 --> 00:03:09,160 everything on this website. I have tumblers. 74 00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:10,400 I have some of their water bottles. 75 00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:12,480 I have two of their coffee mugs. I have three of their coffee 76 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:14,320 mugs. What else they got on there? 77 00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:17,040 We got one of those. We got the canteen. 78 00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:18,600 We've got the big jug right there. 79 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:19,720 I've got the one gallon that they. 80 00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:22,160 Got standing. You do need that honestly, 81 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:24,120 especially if you live in somewhere hot or if you live in 82 00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:26,280 somewhere cold. You don't want to die from 83 00:03:26,560 --> 00:03:29,040 having frozen water that you can't drink sitting in your car. 84 00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:31,520 Anyway, Check out all of the options. 85 00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:34,080 These are fantastic things to find underneath your tree. 86 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:35,600 They say the word patriot right on the front. 87 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:37,480 They support veterans, which we love. 88 00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:42,000 They have given almost $400,000 to support veteran mobility and 89 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:43,600 it's not a very old company. They've only been around since 90 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:47,120 2018. Early 27 or late 2017 is when 91 00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:50,520 they went into business and I started carrying their stuff on 92 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:54,440 duty in October of 2017 while I was a surveillance guy. 93 00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:59,120 So check out Patriot coolers.com promo code Kyle again, it's 10% 94 00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:01,720 off and you'll get free shipping if you spend more than 50 bucks. 95 00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:03,320 What you're going to want to do because there's all kinds of 96 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:06,800 great stuff there. Let's, let's rock'n'roll, let's 97 00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:08,280 bring on our guest. I'm going to have him unmute his 98 00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:09,880 mic. I'm going to give a quick intro 99 00:04:09,880 --> 00:04:12,160 while he's on the screen here, but I'll let him add to it. 100 00:04:12,840 --> 00:04:17,600 Douglas Mackey was accused, investigated, convicted, and now 101 00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:22,200 his sentence has been stayed pending appeal for memes. 102 00:04:22,840 --> 00:04:26,000 He was widely attacked in the left wing media and the 103 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:28,160 mainstream media on all different fronts. 104 00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:30,840 We're going to bring some of those articles on his story is 105 00:04:30,840 --> 00:04:32,360 something that you should care about. 106 00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:35,160 If you care about free speech in America, you don't even have to 107 00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:36,520 agree with Doug. We're going to see where we 108 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:39,240 agree and where we disagree. It doesn't actually matter in 109 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:40,880 this country. You actually have a right to 110 00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:43,840 have a dissenting opinion, even if it's unfavorable and ugly. 111 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:45,600 So, Doug, thanks so much for joining us today. 112 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:47,080 I'm really looking forward to chatting with you buddy. 113 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:49,200 Morning, thanks a lot for having me on. 114 00:04:49,640 --> 00:04:51,600 Isn't it weird that whenever we do these shows, and I know 115 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:53,680 you've done you just did John junior show and I do it and 116 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:54,800 people go like, welcome to the show. 117 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:56,080 And then you're like, oh, thanks for having me. 118 00:04:56,080 --> 00:04:58,400 And really, you're doing me a service because you're you're, 119 00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:01,480 you're my guest today. It's an Otter. 120 00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:04,000 It's an Otter. OK. 121 00:05:04,120 --> 00:05:06,320 So I want to dig into the story, who you are as a person first, 122 00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:08,720 as I just kind of laid out, we're going to get to the to the 123 00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:11,600 court case, we're going to get to the appeal and, and how wild 124 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:13,520 all this stuff is. But let's start with who you are 125 00:05:13,520 --> 00:05:15,040 as a human being. First of all, how old are you? 126 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:17,280 Because this started going back quite a way. 127 00:05:17,280 --> 00:05:18,800 So I want to kind of set the parameters. 128 00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:21,840 Right, I'm 34 years old now. OK. 129 00:05:21,840 --> 00:05:24,600 And how old were you in 2015, 2016? 130 00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:30,280 That's going back seven years. Yeah, it's about 2627 around 131 00:05:30,280 --> 00:05:32,560 there. OK and, and I think that's 132 00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:36,480 really important to note because men in my audience, you think 133 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:38,840 about it, women you've dated men and or you're married to 1. 134 00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:43,200 And you know, when I was 27, I enlisted in the military and I 135 00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:46,240 was basically a very smart retard. 136 00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:49,920 I did all kinds of really dumb things, and I surrounded myself 137 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:51,720 by people who did dumb things 'cause that's what people in the 138 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:53,840 military do. Do you think that you were 139 00:05:53,840 --> 00:05:55,400 functioning at your highest cerebral level? 140 00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:57,360 Have you changed in those last seven years the way that you 141 00:05:57,360 --> 00:05:59,720 look at the world? Yeah, absolutely. 142 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:02,200 I've changed a lot. Yeah, absolutely. 143 00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:04,320 And you got some forced experience that you've gone on. 144 00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:05,960 I I think that's relevant. All right, let's start about who 145 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:07,520 you are as a human being. Where did you grow up? 146 00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:10,560 Where were you born? I was born in DC actually. 147 00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:13,040 Interesting you're the last guy that was born there. 148 00:06:13,040 --> 00:06:14,600 I don't think they're having babies there anymore. 149 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:16,240 Right at the Women's Hospital there. 150 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:17,960 It's closed down though. Is it really? 151 00:06:18,240 --> 00:06:20,920 Yeah. And, and did you grow up in DC 152 00:06:20,920 --> 00:06:24,680 or in the surrounding area? I grew up in Colorado and then 153 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:27,800 Vermont. What What made you be born in 154 00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:28,960 DC? What What was your family 155 00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:31,800 connection to DC? My parents were working there at 156 00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:34,120 the time. OK, they met there. 157 00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:35,840 I should say my dad was working there. 158 00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:37,800 My parents met there. OK. 159 00:06:37,880 --> 00:06:39,440 And then you moved to what part of Colorado? 160 00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:42,840 Outside. Right outside of Denver. 161 00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:46,560 And Denver was a different place back then. 162 00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:49,880 It's pretty far left now, but it wasn't back back 30 years ago. 163 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:54,360 No, no, it was pretty. Yeah, moderate to conservative 164 00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:56,960 place. Yeah, those and it's grown a lot 165 00:06:56,960 --> 00:06:58,840 it. Really has all right, tell me, 166 00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:00,400 tell me about growing up. Tell me about your childhood. 167 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:02,600 I want people to get a sense of who you are as a human being. 168 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:04,680 We're going to get to the point where you're sitting there 169 00:07:04,680 --> 00:07:07,000 posting memes and you have a a very influential account. 170 00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:09,680 But I think it's worth knowing like there's a human being 171 00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:12,360 behind the name instead of just this like headline story. 172 00:07:12,360 --> 00:07:13,680 So kind of tell me about growing up. 173 00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:18,680 Yeah, Growing up, I mean, I was just sort of really active, like 174 00:07:18,680 --> 00:07:22,400 to get outside, play sports, that kind of thing. 175 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:24,240 I always did pretty well in school. 176 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:29,120 I did it, you know, was always interested. 177 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:31,760 It's funny. I would always go get the paper, 178 00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:34,080 open the paper, read the paper. I read a lot. 179 00:07:34,080 --> 00:07:37,240 I would read it, you know, the encyclopedia. 180 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:40,000 So you're the other guy for that? 181 00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:41,000 Exactly. Right. 182 00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:44,200 I would flip through the encyclopedia itself. 183 00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:45,320 Yeah. Just sort of. 184 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:47,440 That's sort of my childhood experience. 185 00:07:47,440 --> 00:07:50,680 I was fortunate living in sort of these nice places where you 186 00:07:50,680 --> 00:07:53,840 can go outside and run around the woods and whatever. 187 00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:56,880 Any siblings? I do, I have two younger 188 00:07:56,880 --> 00:07:59,040 siblings. OK, how have they been affected 189 00:07:59,040 --> 00:08:02,200 by all this? So it's very difficult for them. 190 00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:05,200 You know, for example, I was docs in 2018. 191 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:09,560 They didn't know that I was posting under this pseudonym, 192 00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:11,720 Ricky Vaughn. So that was difficult for my 193 00:08:11,720 --> 00:08:14,560 family. And, you know, they were very 194 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:17,680 upset, understandably, at some of the more offensive things 195 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:21,240 that I was saying. So it was difficult. 196 00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:24,360 We sort of worked through it. You know, we did our best to 197 00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:27,600 work through it. We still don't necessarily see 198 00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:31,000 eye to eye or, or on everything, but we work through it as a 199 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:32,559 family. We work through it and we try 200 00:08:32,559 --> 00:08:34,440 to, you know, we try to support each other now. 201 00:08:34,919 --> 00:08:36,919 Fair enough. All right, let's let's continue 202 00:08:36,919 --> 00:08:38,200 moving through. You said you played some sports. 203 00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:40,919 Any particular sports that you were excelling at? 204 00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:46,640 So in high school I soccer, basketball and I did run middle 205 00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:48,680 distance in the track field. OK. 206 00:08:48,880 --> 00:08:50,440 And then and what year did you graduate? 207 00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:52,760 I'm just, I'm doing timeline because I want people to kind of 208 00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:55,880 look at where this all came into effect and maybe where they were 209 00:08:55,880 --> 00:08:58,600 at that time as well. I graduated 2007. 210 00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:01,120 OK. O 7 And then did you go to 211 00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:02,640 college or no? I did. 212 00:09:02,760 --> 00:09:04,440 I did. I stayed in the state of 213 00:09:04,440 --> 00:09:07,200 Vermont. I went to a small college there 214 00:09:07,200 --> 00:09:11,000 called Middlebury College and I graduated there in 2011. 215 00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:14,440 Where's Middlebury? It's in Middlebury, Vt, which is 216 00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:17,440 South of Burlington and the Champlain Valley. 217 00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:21,160 It's north of Brattleboro and South of of Burlington. 218 00:09:21,560 --> 00:09:23,320 Exactly. What's going on in that part of 219 00:09:23,320 --> 00:09:24,000 the state? Anything. 220 00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:27,520 A lot of, well, the lake is beautiful, right? 221 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:32,320 It's a lot of, it's very windy because there's a valley and 222 00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:34,000 there's a lake right there, very cold. 223 00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:37,920 But yeah, just there's just a lot of, you know, nice farmland 224 00:09:37,920 --> 00:09:39,840 basically in small towns. That's it. 225 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:43,080 Vermont's kind of a weird place. My wife and I looked at moving 226 00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:45,120 there at one point, and it's like a lot of kind of hippie 227 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:47,480 types, but they're also kind of libertarian hippies. 228 00:09:47,480 --> 00:09:49,080 Does that make sense? Is that what it was? 229 00:09:49,440 --> 00:09:51,000 Yeah, that's fair. That's fair. 230 00:09:51,560 --> 00:09:57,080 For instance, Vermont didn't have any sort of concealed, it 231 00:09:57,080 --> 00:09:59,200 still doesn't have any sort of concealed carry law. 232 00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:02,680 You could just open carry, not open carry, but you don't need a 233 00:10:02,680 --> 00:10:05,000 a license to carry. So they were the one of the 234 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:06,920 original, what they call constitutional carries. 235 00:10:06,920 --> 00:10:09,960 In fact, for a while when I was younger they used to refer to it 236 00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:11,600 as Vermont Carry. Exactly. 237 00:10:11,760 --> 00:10:13,600 That's right. That's that's how far back that 238 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:15,600 has gone now that there's a lot of states that have adopted it. 239 00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:17,960 But I think they were the first or at least they were one of the 240 00:10:17,960 --> 00:10:20,320 most prominent states that that came forward with that. 241 00:10:20,600 --> 00:10:22,800 The Constitution is your permit. Right. 242 00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:24,560 And they didn't even need to do anything about it 'cause they 243 00:10:24,560 --> 00:10:27,640 never passed a law saying you need to do a permit, right? 244 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:30,360 Which is the way it was. It was always interesting if 245 00:10:30,360 --> 00:10:32,800 they had ever applied like the carry permit, like whatever the 246 00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:35,920 the loosest carry statutes were across the country. 247 00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:37,680 If you looked at Vermont, then nobody would need a permit 248 00:10:37,680 --> 00:10:39,080 anywhere, which was always kind of my dream. 249 00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:41,880 That's I was like, wow, they they pass gay marriage if you 250 00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:43,800 have to honor what the gay marriage is in any from one 251 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:46,120 state to another. It would be nice if we just kind 252 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:48,760 of agreed that Vermont carry was good for everybody. 253 00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:51,680 That's not the way it works. But so you were that and and and 254 00:10:51,680 --> 00:10:54,080 it's full of crunchy people who are kind of libertarian. 255 00:10:54,080 --> 00:10:56,520 Did that shape your the way you thought about the world at all 256 00:10:56,520 --> 00:11:00,640 or did you see those people as as were you part of Vermont or 257 00:11:00,640 --> 00:11:03,880 was just kind of a visitor? Yeah, no, definitely a little 258 00:11:03,880 --> 00:11:05,880 bit. For instance, George Bush was 259 00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:09,200 the president and so there was a lot of anti Bush sentiment. 260 00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:13,400 So I, you know, I was young, I was impressed. 261 00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:16,800 So I caught on to that sort of anti Bush, anti Iraq war 262 00:11:16,800 --> 00:11:20,600 sentiment is that, you know, read the local papers, the op 263 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:24,160 eds and stuff. So it definitely influenced my 264 00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:27,200 worldview and. Then, since we're talking 265 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:30,280 politics, did you have a politically engaged childhood 266 00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:33,920 and adolescence, or were you, were you aware of it at all? 267 00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:36,240 Not really. I mean, when I was in high 268 00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:40,400 school, like I said, you know, the Iraq war, George Bush sort 269 00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:46,680 of thing was going on and it sort of against that whole war 270 00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:51,640 and sort of the Bush presidency part of the, as a, like I said, 271 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:54,200 a result of my environment that I was in, everybody was sort of 272 00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:57,800 feeling that way. And so I but I wasn't overly 273 00:11:57,800 --> 00:12:01,480 politically engaged and it was just sort of loosely and I was 274 00:12:01,680 --> 00:12:05,200 curious, but I was open minded. Makes sense. 275 00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:08,160 Let's talk about, let's talk about Internet involvement 276 00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:10,640 because you came of age a couple years after I did. 277 00:12:10,640 --> 00:12:13,640 I remember having the Internet when I was in high school and it 278 00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:15,640 was new. Like we had dial ups when I was 279 00:12:15,640 --> 00:12:17,760 in high school. I could still hear the dial 280 00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:19,400 tone. You know, we had AOL, things 281 00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:21,160 like that. You were in a couple years 282 00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:23,120 behind that. So you had it obviously 283 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:25,360 available to you when you were probably a teenager? 284 00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:29,080 Yeah, yeah. Talk about your Internet kind of 285 00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:30,840 growing up on the Internet and, and what that looked like for 286 00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:33,520 you, what kind of things you were involved in, if you did 287 00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:35,920 chat groups or if you were in, you know, rooms or if you were 288 00:12:35,920 --> 00:12:38,280 in forums or anything along those lines, Because I'm really 289 00:12:38,280 --> 00:12:40,720 curious how that started. Now, when I was young, it wasn't 290 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:44,120 actually that into like, chat. I mean, we had the AOL, it's the 291 00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:46,440 Messenger, right? ASL wasn't totally into that. 292 00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:49,240 Yeah. But, you know, I mostly just 293 00:12:49,240 --> 00:12:53,080 followed sports, OK, You know, And then as I got older, I sort 294 00:12:53,080 --> 00:12:56,520 of followed, I sort of following politics and then YouTube came 295 00:12:56,520 --> 00:12:59,120 around so you could watch, you know, YouTube videos, Facebook, 296 00:12:59,160 --> 00:13:01,200 although no, I didn't do anything on Facebook with 297 00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:02,640 politics. Probably smart. 298 00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:07,440 Yeah, yeah. Watch YouTube and that kind of 299 00:13:07,440 --> 00:13:09,880 thing. So that was, and then it sort of 300 00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:11,960 it kept, you know, evolved from there. 301 00:13:13,560 --> 00:13:17,000 Twitter came around and nobody else on Twitter. 302 00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:18,920 So it wasn't very interesting, but. 303 00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:20,640 How early were you on Twitter? Do you know? 304 00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:22,200 Do you know when you first started up on Twitter? 305 00:13:22,560 --> 00:13:25,080 Yeah, yeah. I mean, I I didn't really use it 306 00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:29,120 until 2014, OK. Which puts you at what age? 307 00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:35,880 You're in your early 20s. 2524. OK, so you jump on Twitter and 308 00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:38,520 what what did you start? What was the lure of starting 309 00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:40,080 it? And then did that change in any 310 00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:43,440 way? It was just that there were some 311 00:13:44,200 --> 00:13:45,960 accounts that I wanted to follow. 312 00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:48,520 I just want to read. So for a while, just reading 313 00:13:48,560 --> 00:13:52,760 Twitter, that's all. And then, you know, sort of get 314 00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:56,200 into these sort of arguments or almost trollish sort of 315 00:13:56,200 --> 00:13:59,840 arguments, not even trolling, but arguments on Twitter with 316 00:13:59,840 --> 00:14:02,360 other people and then sort of evolve from there. 317 00:14:03,680 --> 00:14:06,200 There's been a lot of celebration in the left side of 318 00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:09,680 the media about kind of like pummeling you as a troll. 319 00:14:09,680 --> 00:14:11,240 I've seen the word troll in your name. 320 00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:14,800 Associated probably probably on almost every major site 321 00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:19,160 ABCNBCCBS all these folks. Can you describe what what the 322 00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:20,760 word there it is? That's a great one. 323 00:14:20,760 --> 00:14:24,400 What is that one from Ryan? This one's from I Can't. 324 00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:25,280 Yeah. The Verge, Yeah. 325 00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:27,240 The Verge They have a bad logo, don't they? 326 00:14:27,640 --> 00:14:29,840 Far right Twitter troll sentenced to seven months in 327 00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:32,400 prison for 2016. Like how absurd is it? 328 00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:34,760 That's 2023 and they're saying. That, that was my first search 329 00:14:34,760 --> 00:14:36,840 too, Kyle. Yeah, of course. 330 00:14:36,880 --> 00:14:39,000 And we're going to talk about search and how that has been 331 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:41,040 kind of skewed against you, I think in in a little bit here. 332 00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:43,120 But let's let's talk about the term troll. 333 00:14:43,920 --> 00:14:45,760 You know, you were involved in it early on. 334 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:47,840 Do you remember, did you think of it as a trolling or was it 335 00:14:47,840 --> 00:14:50,440 just kind of people keyboard wiring or? 336 00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:53,080 Yeah, it was trolling. It was keyboard worrying, I 337 00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:54,440 mean. What's the goal? 338 00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:55,760 What's the goal of a troll account? 339 00:14:56,600 --> 00:14:59,400 Right. So I would say at its best, the 340 00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:02,280 goal of the troll account is to make people think and sort of 341 00:15:02,280 --> 00:15:04,040 provoke them into sort of thinking. 342 00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:07,400 And, you know, at its worst, I would say it's just sort of 343 00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:09,920 provoking people for the sake of provoking them. 344 00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:13,200 Yeah, just kind of being like an like an online asshole who just 345 00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:16,320 says, yeah, exactly. Speaking around insults or just 346 00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:18,640 trying to bait people. I think bait is a big part of 347 00:15:18,640 --> 00:15:20,800 it. You know, you post stuff that 348 00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:23,560 sort of baits people into having an overreaction or meltdown. 349 00:15:24,280 --> 00:15:28,440 So that was a big part of it. So at its best, yeah, it's like 350 00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:31,400 being more like a Socrates type. But that's at its worst. 351 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:33,080 It's just sort of slinging around mud. 352 00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:35,360 OK, I mean, and that makes sense. 353 00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:37,320 And then where does that, where does the term shit posting come 354 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:39,080 into it? And folks, just bear with me. 355 00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:40,840 This is the nature of this conversation. 356 00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:43,560 So if you're at work and you need to turn it down, do so. 357 00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:46,320 But yeah, let's talk about like, what? 358 00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:48,640 Because that's what's been like, you'll literally see mainstream 359 00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:52,800 media calling you a shit poster, which is a concept. 360 00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:55,760 I know it's been discussed, but not everybody, not everybody 361 00:15:55,760 --> 00:15:57,360 over the age of 40 necessarily knows what that is. 362 00:15:57,360 --> 00:16:00,080 So let you know. Yeah, so I was a shit poster. 363 00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:04,000 It's basically just means you post a lot of stuff. 364 00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:10,280 You post stuff that's maybe even extremely, you know, provocative 365 00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:15,080 or offensive. Not necessarily though, but it's 366 00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:16,720 like all kinds of stuff. You might just post something 367 00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:20,080 because it's cool, it's fun. Like, you know, like now we see 368 00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:23,040 a lot of on the Internet, like a lot of funny cat videos. 369 00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:29,120 So it can run the whole gamut. But as being sort of a, when 370 00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:31,800 Trump started running, sort of a pro Trump shit poster, you're 371 00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:36,920 just kind of posting stuff either in support of Trump or to 372 00:16:36,920 --> 00:16:40,320 sort of provoke and bait the other side. 373 00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:44,360 There's a a meme that was running around at Thanksgiving 374 00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:45,840 and now they're doing it with Christmas. 375 00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:49,120 It's an FBI agent wearing like tactical gear and body armor and 376 00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:50,800 slinging a rifle. And he's standing outside of 377 00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:53,280 like a Christmas dinner where people are either wearing a MAGA 378 00:16:53,280 --> 00:16:55,680 hat or they're like, you know, a conservative family with the 379 00:16:55,880 --> 00:16:59,560 kind of the Nordic beard guy who tends to have like this haircut 380 00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:02,680 and this beard. And and he's and he's like 381 00:17:02,680 --> 00:17:04,920 saying grace or something like that, or blessings over the food 382 00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:06,920 and the FBI standing out there. It's like Merry Christmas from 383 00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:08,880 our family to yours. That's kind of a shit post. 384 00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:10,960 It's just poking like. Exactly. 385 00:17:11,079 --> 00:17:13,920 Poking establishments and institutions, kind of goading 386 00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:15,800 them on. Yeah, and that's kind of like a 387 00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:17,720 political cartoon. So a shit post could be like an 388 00:17:17,720 --> 00:17:21,240 image base, you know it, it could just be text or a link. 389 00:17:21,520 --> 00:17:24,800 And I just, I would post a lot of links just to keep people 390 00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:28,119 updated, you know, on the news or if I thought stories were 391 00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:30,920 interesting polls. I did a lot of polls to break 392 00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:33,080 down the polls. But yeah, that's a great example 393 00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:35,280 of a shit post. But it's also, you know, can be 394 00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:37,760 sort of intelligent, can be creative. 395 00:17:38,120 --> 00:17:40,600 Some of these posts can. Be more like a commentary. 396 00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:43,000 Yeah, there's there's a social commentary for sure. 397 00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:46,880 Social commentary can be caustic, can be intelligent, can 398 00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:49,400 be sort of low value. You know, there's a whole range. 399 00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:52,080 Sure, I mean there's some really ugly ones out there that we've 400 00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:54,040 seen and and it doesn't mean they're not funny, but it's 401 00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:55,960 pretty low brow stuff. And then there's some more 402 00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:57,480 cerebral, right. So it can it could run the whole 403 00:17:57,480 --> 00:17:59,820 gamut and all those could fall in that category of quote UN 404 00:17:59,820 --> 00:18:02,360 quote shit posting. You came up with an online 405 00:18:02,360 --> 00:18:05,880 persona, which I as a guy who loves Major League and I think 406 00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:08,160 that's one of the great like humors that you probably 407 00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:09,600 couldn't do that comedy anymore, right? 408 00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:13,920 You couldn't do you couldn't do a Major League and have the the 409 00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:16,600 boss dressed in the bikini and they're tearing off the parts as 410 00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:19,640 they win as as the crappy Indians like slowly move their 411 00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:22,040 way along and and Ricky Vaughn was kind of a classic thing. 412 00:18:22,040 --> 00:18:25,080 So you named Ricky Vaughn. Did you love that movie or how 413 00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:27,840 did you come up with the idea of doing that, being your your 414 00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:30,200 Internet persona? Yeah, I like that movie. 415 00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:33,720 And it was just perfect. I mean, at first I wasn't 416 00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:36,400 planning on posting or anything. I was just like, all right, 417 00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:40,360 well, I guess I need an avatar, you know, I guess I need a 418 00:18:40,360 --> 00:18:42,280 handle. So rather than just be a 419 00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:47,800 something completely random jumble of letters and words I or 420 00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:50,000 letters and numbers, I just came up with that. 421 00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:53,160 I use that because it's funny. Maybe the league is funny. 422 00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:56,040 And then it sort of evolved. It's like this guy wild thing, 423 00:18:56,920 --> 00:19:00,880 you know, he throws fastball, he throws wild, he's loose cannon. 424 00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:03,920 The guy, you know, he came out of the California Penal League, 425 00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:08,160 so. Yeah, you got to, you got to 426 00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:10,240 tell people that. So first of all, iconic movie, 427 00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:13,080 Major League, Major League 2, fantastic stuff, really funny. 428 00:19:13,720 --> 00:19:15,360 Like I said, I don't think they can make comedies like that 429 00:19:15,360 --> 00:19:16,640 anymore. I certainly don't see them being 430 00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:17,920 that kind of edgy. And you're right. 431 00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:20,360 When they first introduce him, you've got you've got Bob 432 00:19:20,360 --> 00:19:22,960 Euchre, right, who's on the he's the he's the commentator. 433 00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:25,680 And he's like, now we're going to be bringing out Ricky Vaughn 434 00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:27,800 coming straight out of the California Penal League. 435 00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:29,320 You know, this guy's a wild card. 436 00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:31,560 They call him the wild thing. And that was his name and he had 437 00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:34,320 the earring, right, which was very kind of like gay 80s. 438 00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:37,320 Had the haircut. He had the haircut and he comes 439 00:19:37,320 --> 00:19:39,960 out and then he just throws like wild pitches and he hits dudes 440 00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:42,920 and he gets into fights and he's a brawler and that's what you 441 00:19:42,920 --> 00:19:45,280 chose on there and and you put a MAGA hat on, if my memory serves 442 00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:47,720 correct. Yeah, eventually, eventually 443 00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:51,000 somebody photoshopped A MAGA hat on there and sent it to me, so I 444 00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:52,920 used that. So you just upgraded it as 445 00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:55,600 people said, How how did your did you have Photoshop skills to 446 00:19:55,600 --> 00:19:59,160 do some of the stuff or did you? No, I didn't do any. 447 00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:02,480 I could maybe come up with a meme and Microsoft Paint. 448 00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:06,000 That's about it, yeah. People would Photoshop things 449 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:07,480 and send it to me. Got it. 450 00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:09,840 And so you used and how? How big did your account get? 451 00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:14,680 So my first account before it got banned off Twitter was 5062 452 00:20:14,680 --> 00:20:18,120 thousand followers. 62,000 which is not a huge account but you 453 00:20:18,120 --> 00:20:19,920 were getting major reach out of that for some reason. 454 00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:23,040 It's getting major reach. Back then it was actually fairly 455 00:20:23,040 --> 00:20:25,960 large account. People didn't like flood onto 456 00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:28,840 Twitter until, I don't think, till after the election, whether 457 00:20:28,840 --> 00:20:31,560 pro or against Trump. You know, back then it was a 458 00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:35,520 lot, but people would be checking my account constantly, 459 00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:37,040 which is why I had so much reach. 460 00:20:38,040 --> 00:20:40,280 So people would book whether they followed you or not, they 461 00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:42,040 still could like. So I used to follow certain 462 00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:43,680 people on Twitter that I didn't have Twitter. 463 00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:45,600 And what I would do is I would just bookmark the. 464 00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:47,320 Page. And you could just go and look 465 00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:49,480 at it and I could see whatever your last 10 tweets are, 466 00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:50,920 whatever. And then I would say, don't you 467 00:20:50,920 --> 00:20:52,440 want to sign up for Twitter? And I go, no, I don't. 468 00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:53,640 I don't want to do. That yeah, exactly. 469 00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:57,160 So used to be you could just scroll and scroll and scroll I 470 00:20:57,240 --> 00:20:58,640 think. That's how I followed Andy. 471 00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:00,560 No, for years, actually. That's how I kept track of what 472 00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:02,640 he was at too. So you're doing this in 2015. 473 00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:05,640 Did you know specifically that you were going to lean this 474 00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:10,720 account towards kind of a pro Trump mean shit poster or or did 475 00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:12,840 that evolve? Like how did that evolution 476 00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:14,400 happen? Where that became your lane? 477 00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:19,120 That totally evolved. It was 2015 when Trump 478 00:21:19,120 --> 00:21:21,240 announced. And keep in mind this account 479 00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:23,840 was small. It didn't really get really big 480 00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:27,200 until perhaps the summer of 2016. 481 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:30,920 So it was just small. It's just a group of, of, of, of 482 00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:33,880 guys on Twitter. They're, you know, knuckleheads 483 00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:37,200 posting stuff for each other, you know, replying to each 484 00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:40,680 other's tweets, maybe bait a journalist here or there, 485 00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:43,960 whatever, or a politician. But that's kind of what it was. 486 00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:49,920 And so once Trump announced, you know, I didn't, I had no idea 487 00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:52,400 what Trump was about, to be honest with you. 488 00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:55,160 I paid a lot of attention to Donald Trump even when he was, 489 00:21:55,800 --> 00:22:00,160 you know, a massive celebrity. So of course, the first 490 00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:01,760 announcer was like, oh, OK, whatever. 491 00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:03,920 And then then he actually starts gaining some traction. 492 00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:05,720 You start looking into it, and people are like, oh, no, 493 00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:09,200 actually, you know, his platform is actually really interesting. 494 00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:11,360 You know, this could be good for the country. 495 00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:15,080 He's gaining a lot of traction. And so I actually thought that, 496 00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:18,960 you know, this guy would be the president like August of 2015, 497 00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:21,800 just the way he was connecting the people and the way that he 498 00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:24,440 was sort of starting to dominate the Republican primary. 499 00:22:25,360 --> 00:22:29,200 Did the the backlash of sort of mainstream kind of the RE 500 00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:31,920 situation, did that, did that affect any of your thought 501 00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:34,080 process as you saw people sort of lose their minds over him 502 00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:36,000 too? Yeah, exactly. 503 00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:38,120 Absolutely. And I thought that he was 504 00:22:38,120 --> 00:22:39,800 provoking, you know, all the right people. 505 00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:43,080 And you know, to be quite frankly, a lot of these people, 506 00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:46,160 I think they don't like the country, they don't like 507 00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:48,280 America. And sort of seeing this kind of 508 00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:52,600 wave ripple across the country really pissed them off. 509 00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:56,680 And this was where some of the more offensive bait posts of 510 00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:59,920 mine come in, some of them because these people were 511 00:22:59,920 --> 00:23:02,200 saying, oh, this guy's the worst ever. 512 00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:04,320 He's going to be, you know, Hitler 2.0. 513 00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:07,080 And then you kind of feed, we are, you know, I would kind of 514 00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:09,720 feed into that their paranoia by sort of baiting them. 515 00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:13,400 And then they would sort of meltdown even further so and. 516 00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:16,280 And, and none of the things that have been alleged that you 517 00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:18,040 posted are things that you've run away from. 518 00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:20,280 Like they were pretty obviously posted to your account, right? 519 00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:22,960 That wasn't part of your, that wasn't part of your defense, as 520 00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:24,400 far as I understood it. Right. 521 00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:26,040 Yeah. We're not denying anything, you 522 00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:29,400 know, Absolutely, yeah. Intention is very different than 523 00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:30,880 what was actually up there. It's like, yeah, of course, 524 00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:32,400 that's my post. It's just you have no sense of 525 00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:34,480 humor. It was kind of the, it was kind 526 00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:36,640 of the take that I've taken. For some reason, the mainstream 527 00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:38,280 media seems to have zero sense of humor. 528 00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:40,160 That's right, yeah. And they they take it out of 529 00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:43,120 context also. How surprising was that to learn 530 00:23:43,120 --> 00:23:45,480 that people just didn't understand that a joke was a 531 00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:49,160 joke? Well, I mean, so this cancel 532 00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:53,520 culture thing goes back a lot further earlier than people 533 00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:55,480 thought. I'm trying to think who it was, 534 00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:59,960 but this goes back into the early 220 tens. 535 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:03,440 So I knew that this was how they behave. 536 00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:04,880 You know, I knew that this is what they do. 537 00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:08,040 I knew that this is sort of, you know, exactly what they do. 538 00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:12,800 So that was also part of the, you know, the baiting, the 539 00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:15,760 trolling, which is, you know, that we got a lot of people who 540 00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:18,800 are really extremely self-righteous, sort of holier 541 00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:21,880 than thou types. And so you can sort of bait them 542 00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:25,320 and poke, poking at their sacred dogmas. 543 00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:30,160 You know, a lot of their, you know, their totems, their golden 544 00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:34,040 calves, whatever. And poking at them because just 545 00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:37,560 because they were so self-righteous and they didn't 546 00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:40,600 even really know how to argue their own position other than 547 00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:44,920 saying I'm good and they're bad. You know, that's how they argue. 548 00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:47,280 They don't know how to form a coherent argument. 549 00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:50,920 They just said I'm morally good, the other side's morally bad, 550 00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:54,000 and that's it. Would you say that is the 551 00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:56,080 origins of the the Orange man bad? 552 00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:59,160 Kind of, Because that in and of itself is a troll. 553 00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:03,040 You're boiling down what they said to such a dumb level that 554 00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:05,680 it sounds absurd, and yet that's what they said. 555 00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:07,400 And I think all of us kind of had that instinct. 556 00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:09,080 Were you guys pretty aware of that's where you were? 557 00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:10,800 Going, Oh yeah, absolutely, absolutely. 558 00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:15,560 And that's sort of a, a base level response, you know, and 559 00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:17,800 you don't have to think it's an unthinking response. 560 00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:20,440 So it can be programmed into a large number of people. 561 00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:25,800 Just that psychological Pavlovian reaction, you know, 562 00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:29,200 when the the dog hears the ballot drools, when the person 563 00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:32,000 who's programmed sees, you know, whatever Trump on the screen, 564 00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:33,440 It's like, yeah, exactly. It's that. 565 00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:35,360 It's that simple. It's that low level. 566 00:25:35,360 --> 00:25:38,840 It's like orange man bad. Did you have other accounts that 567 00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:41,440 would dogpile on the stuff that you'd put out there as they, I 568 00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:43,760 see this in my experience. I'm fairly new to social media, 569 00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:45,280 so it's really weird to me. But if someone says something 570 00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:48,440 really either inflammatory or nasty or direct attack on me, 571 00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:49,880 I'll just, sometimes I'll just share it. 572 00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:52,600 Like I'll just retweet it and let everybody who's following me 573 00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:54,800 take a look at it and and break that person down. 574 00:25:55,120 --> 00:25:57,920 And was that going on in 2015 too, since I didn't follow at 575 00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:00,120 that point? Oh yeah, I would do that all the 576 00:26:00,120 --> 00:26:02,160 time. Like retweet. 577 00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:04,760 I mean, yeah, you know, it's like they say retweets are not 578 00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:07,200 endorsements, right? So you retweet stuff all the 579 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:10,360 time that someone said or someone was trolling me or 580 00:26:10,360 --> 00:26:12,360 whatever. Just retweet it so that everyone 581 00:26:12,360 --> 00:26:15,280 sees it and you're just expose. Them stupid yeah, you expose 582 00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:17,560 them to a big. Audience, that was a big part of 583 00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:20,240 Twitter, absolutely. That's a great part of Twitter, 584 00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:22,880 to be honest with you. I mean, people see not the maybe 585 00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:27,000 not the the nasty stuff piling on, you know, but that people 586 00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:28,840 sort of can see everything what's going on. 587 00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:33,280 It is, it is very open. And yeah, if you decide to put 588 00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:35,520 something stupid in your bio and then you want to go engage on 589 00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:38,080 somebody on a a different pool, there's a lot of puddles, I 590 00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:40,760 would say of Twitter, right? There's everybody's kind of 591 00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:42,560 playing in their own puddle. And when you step over in the 592 00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:45,080 other puddle and you find yourself outnumbered by a lot 593 00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:47,920 sometimes that's where the most interesting, that's probably the 594 00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:51,000 most rewarding interactions I think, even though they're not 595 00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:52,880 good for humanity probably. Could we agree on that? 596 00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:55,320 Right, exactly. Yeah, it's sometimes it's like 597 00:26:55,360 --> 00:26:57,160 it's over the line. I mean, that's the founding, 598 00:26:57,160 --> 00:26:58,240 father said. It's like that. 599 00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:01,240 And, and the Supreme Court has repeatedly said that the public 600 00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:05,960 discourse, it's not preschool, it's caustic. 601 00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:11,160 It's, you know, it's a lot of, you know, and people have the 602 00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:13,720 freedom in this country to step over the line. 603 00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:16,840 Like I said, well, to be honest with you, there's a lot of 604 00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:19,520 people now that they want the public discourse to be like 605 00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:21,800 preschool. And the teacher tells you what 606 00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:23,680 to say and what you can't say, and that's it. 607 00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:26,520 But that's not what the Founding Fathers had in mind. 608 00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:28,880 That's not what the Supreme Court has ever had in mind. 609 00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:33,040 Let's talk about what your understanding of free speech and 610 00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:36,320 understanding of what you were doing at the time maybe versus 611 00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:39,160 now looking back on it, what how did you understand American 612 00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:41,680 discourse to be and did you think that you were safe doing 613 00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:44,320 what you were doing? Oh, yeah. 614 00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:46,600 I mean, I thought it was, yeah, I definitely thought it was, you 615 00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:49,600 know, legally safe. I mean, I was not posting any 616 00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:54,760 threats, death threats, anything like this, any sort of 617 00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:59,920 obscenities, you know, obscene sort of illegal content. 618 00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:01,480 So absolutely I thought I was safe. 619 00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:04,920 And this was Twitter back in the day too. 620 00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:08,800 Twitter was very open and they didn't censor anything until 621 00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:12,760 2016, late 2016. So it was sort of understood and 622 00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:17,960 people understood that this sort of give and take this back and 623 00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:21,480 forth and that people are not always, you know, there's, 624 00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:25,600 there's a lot of innuendo, there's a lot of bait that's 625 00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:27,240 going back and forth on both sides. 626 00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:30,640 So that was sort of my understanding of Twitter. 627 00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:33,960 You know, now, you know, when I was at trial, I said, you know, 628 00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:37,400 I posted certain things that were offensive, that were over 629 00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:38,560 the line, that were in bad taste. 630 00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:42,600 And I regret doing that. You know, however, this has 631 00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:44,320 nothing to do with my prosecution. 632 00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:49,240 It's, it's just a distraction. And that was sort of the this 633 00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:52,320 Wild West atmosphere that was going on back in those days. 634 00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:55,240 Yeah, and this was also a program or a platform that 635 00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:57,000 didn't seem to have a problem having a bunch of child 636 00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:59,840 pornography on it, which we've heard over and over again when I 637 00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:01,200 was joining. That was kind of the thing I 638 00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:04,120 want to, I want to talk about some of the interesting 639 00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:05,960 allegations that were made against you because I think 640 00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:08,840 those are the most fun being able to sort of debunk and or 641 00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:10,360 agree if they have some certain points. 642 00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:14,120 So I want to go to the SPLC, the Southern Poverty Law Center, 643 00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:16,840 which is kind of like the Holy Roman Empire. 644 00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:19,480 It's none of those things, but it is the name that they have 645 00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:21,240 chosen for themselves. It says jury selection started 646 00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:24,480 today in the trial of 33. Obviously, you're now 3433 year 647 00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:27,720 old Douglas Mackie, a man who prolifically spread hate and 648 00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:30,120 politically charged disinformation under the 649 00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:33,560 pseudonym Ricky Vaughn during Donald Trump's political rise. 650 00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:35,760 So I'm gonna pull this onto my other screen here so I can look 651 00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:36,680 at it better. There we go, folks. 652 00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:38,800 All right, so the Justice Department charged Mackie with 653 00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:40,640 election interference. That's actually not what I 654 00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:42,360 remember them charging you with. You can let me know. 655 00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:44,520 But I thought they charged you with conspiracy against rights, 656 00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:45,840 isn't that correct? That's right. 657 00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:48,400 OK, you're right. Accusing him of a conspiracy to 658 00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:51,000 spread misinformation designed to deprive individuals of their 659 00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:52,840 constitutional right to vote so they don't even know. 660 00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:54,920 That's not election interference, that's conspiracy. 661 00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:58,400 Very different animal. The DOJ levied these charges in 662 00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:02,920 connection with a November 16th stunt, 2016 stunt rather, that 663 00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:06,080 Mackey engaged and encouraged people to vote for Hillary 664 00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:10,400 Clinton by text message, disseminated an online flyer, 665 00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:14,160 and it featured a black person in front of African Americans 666 00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:18,120 for Hillary Clinton urging voters to text their votes. 667 00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:22,560 Nearly 5000 people fell for Mackie's ploy, I feel. 668 00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:24,760 Is that true? Did 5000 people actually tack 669 00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:25,840 that? I thought we found out that was 670 00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:29,720 actually false. They did text it, but the DOJ 671 00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:32,360 went around interviewing these people and the people that 672 00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:35,840 texted the number, overwhelmingly they've actually 673 00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:39,880 voted. Or if if the if the FBI actually 674 00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:42,360 got a hold of them, they would tell them, yeah, I don't even 675 00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:46,320 remember text his number or, and some even said, no. 676 00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:48,240 Obviously I know that you can't text the vote. 677 00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:50,640 Like I'm not stupid. Probably a huge chunk of them 678 00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:52,640 were your followers anyway. They were people on the 679 00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:54,600 conservative side. I have to imagine, yeah, it's 680 00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:56,360 not like it's not like that was getting viewed by Hillary 681 00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:58,320 Clinton voters in algorithmic boost. 682 00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:02,000 So what happened was, you know, this was a very actually my 683 00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:04,840 account at the time because it was my second account only had 684 00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:09,600 like 12,014 thousand. Very few people saw this tweet. 685 00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:15,080 What happened was the BuzzFeed wrote an article about it. 686 00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:18,960 So we looked at the timeline and most of these people are texting 687 00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:23,520 the number after BuzzFeed and Wired magazine are writing about 688 00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:24,960 it. And then, you know, it's 689 00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:27,600 spreading around on the other side of Twitter, you know, 690 00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:29,560 liberal side of Twitter. They say, Oh my God, this is 691 00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:33,760 horrible. So nobody very it was only like 692 00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:37,720 100 or 200 people actually texted the meme before BuzzFeed 693 00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:39,640 covered. It so organically, it got very 694 00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:41,400 little view. And then they did the Streisand 695 00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:43,320 effect thing where they were like clutching the pearls. 696 00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:45,560 Oh, how dare he do this horrible thing. 697 00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:47,920 He's taking Hillary votes. And that's when it actually 698 00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:49,360 started. Was it after the election? 699 00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:51,200 Out of curiosity, 'cause I know there's no there's not a lot of 700 00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:52,840 time in November to to do that text. 701 00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:56,840 Right, so the the the the meme was I posted the meme November 702 00:31:56,840 --> 00:32:00,280 1st and there's another one was Spanish language November 2nd. 703 00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:02,400 OK. And then when did the majority 704 00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:03,800 of those texts come in? Do we know? 705 00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:07,560 They came in close to those dates, right? 706 00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:09,320 Because they were suspended. My Twitter account was 707 00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:10,760 suspended. I mean, like I said, the tweet 708 00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:14,200 got almost no traction. And I, quite frankly, I didn't 709 00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:16,400 think it would. I thought people would just 710 00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:18,640 laugh at this and then move on to the next tweet. 711 00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:23,040 It's like this is 1 of dozens of tweets, retweets, you know, 712 00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:26,800 every day. So I was surprised that people 713 00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:29,080 took it so seriously. I was surprised that they were 714 00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:31,440 kind of Pearl clutching over it because I thought it was 715 00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:34,160 obviously a joke and I didn't expect it to really go anywhere 716 00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:35,880 now. Yeah. 717 00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:38,480 Then, yeah. So most of the tweets happen 718 00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:41,600 like, you know, after. Remember, first attack of the 719 00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:44,840 election was on the 8th. So yeah, actually some texts did 720 00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:46,880 come in after the 8th, you know, after the election. 721 00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:49,560 Not that many. But there's no evidence that 722 00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:54,360 anyone actually thought that this, this was, you know, a 723 00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:56,760 legitimate way to vote. There's no evidence of it. 724 00:32:57,440 --> 00:32:59,560 And this was a criminal case. This is not a civil case. 725 00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:01,920 They were coming and saying this was a criminal case in the Civil 726 00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:04,080 Rights division, that they were alleging that you had conspired 727 00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:05,400 to deprive people of their rights. 728 00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:08,760 And I just want to remind my audience the burden of proof on 729 00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:10,240 the government. By the way, you don't have to 730 00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:11,920 prove that you're innocent. You're assumed innocent. 731 00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:15,200 That's the way our system works. The burden of proof is they had 732 00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:17,320 to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. 733 00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:19,880 There could be no doubt, no reasonable person could doubt 734 00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:22,680 that you had deprived people and conspired to deprive people of 735 00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:24,520 your rights. What was the defense that your 736 00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:26,240 team mounted as you guys came into court? 737 00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:28,040 Right. No, great question. 738 00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:33,320 So actually, the government doesn't have to prove that a 739 00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:35,880 single person was deprived of their rights because. 740 00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:38,360 They did a conspiracy charge. So this is the this is the The 741 00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:40,080 Dirty trick. You want to talk about the 742 00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:42,520 difference experiencing A conspiracy charge versus saying 743 00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:44,600 that they actually that you actually deprived people of 744 00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:45,480 rights. Yeah. 745 00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:48,760 So they don't need to prove that anyone was deprived. 746 00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:52,600 They don't need and they. So what they do need to prove is 747 00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:56,000 that there was an agreement between two or more people and 748 00:33:56,000 --> 00:34:00,040 that there was a specific intent to deprive people of their vote. 749 00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:06,480 Now, they had zero direct evidence that I agreed with 750 00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:08,199 anybody else as part of a conspiracy. 751 00:34:08,199 --> 00:34:12,920 They had zero direct evidence that I intended to deprive 752 00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:15,560 anybody of their vote. What they did was they went and 753 00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:20,000 dug up these DM conversations and they said, look, this person 754 00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:24,120 in the DM thought that people would fall for this, this other. 755 00:34:24,159 --> 00:34:26,800 And they actually found the group, which I was not even a 756 00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:29,600 part of, where the people were designing and creating the 757 00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:32,320 memes. And so some people in that group 758 00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:34,760 were like, Oh yeah, this is going to be great. 759 00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:36,560 You know, all the shit libs are going to fall for this. 760 00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:39,000 I mean that was. Yeah, I remember, I remember the 761 00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:41,679 term shit Lib coming out there and people being like aghast 762 00:34:41,679 --> 00:34:42,920 again. It's the same thing. 763 00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:46,440 It's like that's how people. Yeah, I mean, that's a, you 764 00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:48,360 know, that's a someone, somebody said it at DM. 765 00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:52,400 And so that was their evidence of the specific intent. 766 00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:55,239 But that's evidence of those people's intent because these 767 00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:59,120 needs were spreading around. Thousands of people are making 768 00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:01,120 these jokes, Not even these memes. 769 00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:04,520 The memes that I shared, I found them on 4 Chan. 770 00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:07,440 They were not even the same memes that were in these DM chat 771 00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:11,360 groups, right? So they had zero specific, they 772 00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:13,120 had zero evidence, direct evidence. 773 00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:15,920 They just had to say, well, just, and they did this at their 774 00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:18,000 closing army. Well, just look at it and it's 775 00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:19,720 obvious, you know, just look at the mean. 776 00:35:19,720 --> 00:35:21,280 It's obvious. They just point at it and say, 777 00:35:21,720 --> 00:35:23,160 come on, we all know what's going on here. 778 00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:24,880 It's obvious. Well, there's no direct 779 00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:26,440 evidence. There's no specific evidence 780 00:35:26,720 --> 00:35:30,600 that I agreed with anybody. And then for the intent, they 781 00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:33,320 never said, Oh yeah, they had no intent. 782 00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:35,720 They had no evidence of specific intent. 783 00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:39,200 What they did was just say, well, look, he said this bad 784 00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:41,800 thing here, you know, he, he must hate women. 785 00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:44,840 He must hate black people. So he's guilty. 786 00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:48,680 He doesn't want them to vote. That's that's what they said. 787 00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:51,640 Yeah, character assassination was essentially their was their, 788 00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:53,000 their power. Sometimes they're actually 789 00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:55,520 supposed to be limited on that. Let's let's bring up some of the 790 00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:57,040 allegations that were against you because I think some of 791 00:35:57,040 --> 00:35:58,440 these are fun. Media Matters did one. 792 00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:01,320 I, I got a Media Matters piece against myself a couple days 793 00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:02,400 ago. So I'm kind of excited about 794 00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:05,760 this. This one says, who wrote this? 795 00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:07,400 Alex Kaplan, same idiot that wrote about me. 796 00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:10,840 So this is even more fun. So, Doug, this is the story and 797 00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:12,920 I don't have you seen the Media Matters piece or do you tune 798 00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:14,320 some of this out? Yeah, I've seen that one. 799 00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:16,880 OK, good. Donald Trump Junior tells white 800 00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:20,080 nationalist that he quote UN quote may be my favorite Twitter 801 00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:25,080 account of all time. Trump Junior to Douglas Mackey. 802 00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:27,880 We've probably gone back and forth on Twitter back in the old 803 00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:32,120 days and DMS, he says, which apparently you know now you 804 00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:34,560 should be canceled forever. This is Media matters purpose. 805 00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:36,720 That's what they do. They they interviewed you. 806 00:36:36,720 --> 00:36:40,200 You're an anti-Semitic white nationalist recently convicted 807 00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:43,560 of election interference. Do you want to respond to any of 808 00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:44,960 that? Are any of those things accurate 809 00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:46,960 about you? Well, I mean, the first thing I 810 00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:49,400 would say is that in that headline is inaccurate just to 811 00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:51,880 begin with, that I mean, I'm not a white nationalist, but I 812 00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:55,160 actually was not even a white nationalist back in those days. 813 00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:57,400 What is? What is a white nationalist as 814 00:36:57,400 --> 00:36:59,800 you understand it? So as I understand it, a white 815 00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:03,000 nationalist, I mean, I guess there's different types, but 816 00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:05,320 some of them think that, you know, this should be a white 817 00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:09,800 only country and that or that, you know, people that are 818 00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:13,040 minorities shouldn't have rights, OK, whatever, that kind 819 00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:15,120 of thing. I feel like Richard Spencer at 820 00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:17,720 that time was like kind of the quintessential version of that. 821 00:37:17,720 --> 00:37:20,080 He was out there kind of doing a neo Nazi routine. 822 00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:21,360 He's actually walked away from that as well. 823 00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:24,120 But you remember Richard Spencer 20/15/2016. 824 00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:25,960 Yeah, I actually did an interview with him. 825 00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:29,120 So he was actually a a, yeah, he would call himself like a white 826 00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:31,960 identitarian or whatever. And it was not exactly clear. 827 00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:34,280 Yeah, what what the differentiation there is? 828 00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:37,280 What he stood for, you know, I didn't know what, you know, some 829 00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:39,640 people were like, you look, we have to deport, you know, 830 00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:41,520 everybody who's not white and stuff like that. 831 00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:43,880 But not I never, you know, I never agree with that. 832 00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:45,880 I never said that. So. 833 00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:48,080 Why did they decide that you were a white nationalist, do you 834 00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:50,880 think? Well, I mean, to be, to be fair 835 00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:52,960 to them, I mean, I posted certain things that were 836 00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:56,360 inflammatory, that are offensive, you know, that I, you 837 00:37:56,360 --> 00:37:58,680 know, as I said, like, and my attorney really sustained, you 838 00:37:58,680 --> 00:38:01,840 know, I regret posting, you know, some of these things, some 839 00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:05,760 of the sort of dozens or, or hundreds of thousands of, of 840 00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:09,640 tweets and retweets. So they this, you know, they 841 00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:11,680 took the offensive stuff and said, well, he's a white 842 00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:14,680 supremacist, he's a white nationalist, all this kind of 843 00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:17,680 thing. So I mean, it's a nuanced sort 844 00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:20,440 of thing, but you know, it is what it is. 845 00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:24,880 You know, like I said, I've changed a lot since since this 846 00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:28,160 happened. You have to, I kind of liken it 847 00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:30,840 to the thing I've got an uncle who is famous for sending me 848 00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:32,800 like a bunch of softcore pornography, which I don't 849 00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:35,040 really know why he emails that, but he's like, he's like one of 850 00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:38,680 the last guys on the like the right wing AOL forwarding 851 00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:40,080 outpost. Like he's the last guy that 852 00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:42,240 didn't get the word that like the like AOL is over. 853 00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:44,480 So he's still sending things in like all caps. 854 00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:46,400 You know, this guy, like everybody's got somebody like 855 00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:48,520 this in their family and he's sending all caps. 856 00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:52,760 He's sending me like jokes about golfers and jokes about dudes 857 00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:55,880 who are frustrated with their wives and like pictures of women 858 00:38:56,080 --> 00:38:59,120 who are naked. It's just like a slew of things. 859 00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:01,920 And some of them will be like, you know, racist black jokes or 860 00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:03,800 like Jewish jokes. And every time I read them, I 861 00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:06,120 kind of go like, that's just what my uncle does. 862 00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:08,520 Like, he's just that uncle. He's the uncle that sends me 863 00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:09,960 this. I don't know if he believes in 864 00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:11,080 it. I certainly wouldn't like, say 865 00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:14,400 like this is his, his, his deep darkest feelings in his heart. 866 00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:17,880 He's just a guy that just has like a very taste of kind of bad 867 00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:21,360 taste in some jokes and whatnot. And I'm guessing that you're 868 00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:24,240 saying that these, like some of the jokes you guys made, were 869 00:39:24,240 --> 00:39:28,560 like mean to Jews, mean to blacks, cause 'cause that was 870 00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:31,560 literally what your account did. It just did inflammatory jokes, 871 00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:33,040 some of which were inappropriate probably. 872 00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:35,280 Yeah, that's right. That's exactly right. 873 00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:35,600 So. Yeah. 874 00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:38,840 But but to say that that is the the core of your identity is, is 875 00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:42,200 a very different thing to decide that because you made jokes 876 00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:44,760 about either Jews or blacks or anything else, which by the way, 877 00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:47,400 used to be very, very common in the 80s when I was a kid. 878 00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:49,960 Like that was sort of the inappropriate humor that 879 00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:53,080 everybody had, like it or not. And we were pretty free back 880 00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:56,840 then like that. To say that that defines you as 881 00:39:56,840 --> 00:39:59,200 a human being. It's like, oh, I heard that guy 882 00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:02,520 wants to make a black joke in a in a locker room, you know, next 883 00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:04,360 to his buddies who were black. Were baseball players? 884 00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:05,920 Was the butt of these jokes, you know? 885 00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:08,680 Right, There used to be Pollock jokes that I recall when I was a 886 00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:09,760 kid. I mean, and there were like 887 00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:12,880 whole books of like filthy Pollock jokes and you go like, 888 00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:13,920 oh, I know a lot of Polish people. 889 00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:16,960 I don't I don't know but one of your friends who has a Polish 890 00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:19,920 like hence his last name ends in ski would be would like be 891 00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:22,520 telling you the jokes because they're the ones that have 892 00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:25,520 family members. Yeah, exactly. 893 00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:27,600 It is sort of like a freewheeling environment. 894 00:40:27,600 --> 00:40:29,280 I mean, for for better or for worse. 895 00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:32,440 I mean, things have changed for better or for worse. 896 00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:35,680 But that's right. That's I think you're right. 897 00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:37,560 Feels worse. What about the anti-Semitic 898 00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:39,240 claim are there? Do you have some deep seated 899 00:40:39,240 --> 00:40:41,080 feelings about Jewish people in this country? 900 00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:45,520 Well, no, I don't have any sort of, you know, prejudice or 901 00:40:45,520 --> 00:40:48,640 bigotry towards Jewish people. I mean, there's a lot of great 902 00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:51,760 Jewish people that are helping me on this case. 903 00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:53,640 You know, I have friends that are Jewish people, so no. 904 00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:56,040 And. You got, do you hear like Jewish 905 00:40:56,040 --> 00:40:58,440 lawyers or Jewish paralegals or something or working on your 906 00:40:58,440 --> 00:40:59,640 case? Is that what you're getting at? 907 00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:01,160 No. Not necessarily. 908 00:41:01,160 --> 00:41:02,640 I mean all kinds of different things. 909 00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:05,320 I mean, yes, I think some of the lawyers do happen to be Jewish. 910 00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:08,080 But, you know, I have supporters, people say, you 911 00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:11,560 know, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm rooting for you donors, that kind of 912 00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:13,520 thing. So, you know, I think that as a 913 00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:17,480 Catholic and as a Christian, we always have to be charitable to 914 00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:20,240 others. And so I regret, you know, that 915 00:41:20,240 --> 00:41:23,640 these posts were not charitable. And so that's why I wouldn't 916 00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:26,760 make them again, you know, But So what the media wants to do is 917 00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:30,760 sort of like to say, well, you know, they want you to apologize 918 00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:35,040 for your all of your political views and say, well, now I'm 919 00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:38,280 going to go on tour now and go speaking and say I'm the most 920 00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:40,200 liberal person left wing in the world now. 921 00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:43,120 And that's quite frankly, you know, that's not me. 922 00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:44,800 That's not what I'm ever going to do. 923 00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:47,840 You know, I'm never going to sort of go around and groveling, 924 00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:49,920 which is why I think that they keep coming out with these hit 925 00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:55,040 pieces because they think that if you are sort of on the right 926 00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:58,640 or you're a supporter of Trump or even some of these other 927 00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:02,920 candidates like DeSantis or Vivek, then they think that you 928 00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:08,600 are sort of a prolific hater. So I mean, that's sort of why 929 00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:11,720 they just keep coming out with some of these hit pieces that 930 00:42:11,720 --> 00:42:15,960 quite frankly are just rehashed. I mean the first hit piece. 931 00:42:16,080 --> 00:42:17,520 There's, there's no new information. 932 00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:18,800 Yeah, none of these things are new. 933 00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:22,120 I I keep reading them and it's just like, it's the same words 934 00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:24,160 they're banding them about. But to be fair, I just want to 935 00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:27,800 kind of hone in on your actual sin from the political left, 936 00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:31,120 which is that you liked Donald Trump and you were irreverently 937 00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:33,640 in support of him. And then everything else gets to 938 00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:36,120 be kind of like piled on. They want an apology. 939 00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:38,880 Tour. But but the The apology tour is 940 00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:42,000 not because of anti-Semitic. Like they're not asking you to 941 00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:43,600 go to synagogues and give speeches, although they would 942 00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:45,440 probably love that. And they don't need you to go 943 00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:48,080 around to like black churches and tell them that you, you 944 00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:50,920 know, mea culpa and kiss boots. They really want you to disavow 945 00:42:50,920 --> 00:42:52,880 Donald Trump. It seems like that's the real 946 00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:55,640 crime, which is why they which is why they did an entire hit 947 00:42:55,640 --> 00:42:58,560 piece on you because you went on his son's show, which is also 948 00:42:58,720 --> 00:43:01,280 just very tasty to me. Yes, that's exactly right. 949 00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:03,400 No, sorry, my headphones came out. 950 00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:07,880 That's exactly right. I mean, that's, I think that and 951 00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:10,800 we've seen some people do this. I'm not going to name any names 952 00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:12,840 we have. Gone on apology tours. 953 00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:16,800 And say, I don't like Trump anymore, sorry, biggest mistake 954 00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:20,880 of my life and stuff like that. And it's like, well, yeah, 955 00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:23,200 they're going to call you all kinds of names, white 956 00:43:23,200 --> 00:43:27,240 supremacists, white nationalists, all these kinds of 957 00:43:27,240 --> 00:43:28,320 names. They're going to call you if you 958 00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:30,240 don't sort of bend the knee to them. 959 00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:33,360 And even, you know, it's funny, some of them do. 960 00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:37,280 Some people do go and apologize. And then the, the they'll cover 961 00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:41,640 it and they'll be like, well, he says he apologizes. 962 00:43:41,640 --> 00:43:43,680 But we're not, we can't really quite be sure. 963 00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:44,920 You know, yeah, we don't. We don't. 964 00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:47,240 It's not like it actually buys you any credibility with these 965 00:43:47,240 --> 00:43:48,360 people. I'm thinking of Jenna Ellis 966 00:43:48,360 --> 00:43:50,960 right now, just because I saw her tweets before we started and 967 00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:53,840 she's out there, you know, talking about how Donald Trump 968 00:43:53,840 --> 00:43:56,800 junior, who's been very nice, he was really nice to engage with. 969 00:43:56,800 --> 00:43:58,600 I don't know if you enjoyed being on his show too, but. 970 00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:00,920 Oh yeah, he's extremely engaging. 971 00:44:01,560 --> 00:44:03,840 He's like a regular dude in a lot of ways for a guy who grew 972 00:44:03,840 --> 00:44:07,040 up as wealthy as he did with the name that he did, we had like 973 00:44:07,040 --> 00:44:08,880 some regular dude conversations in a lot of ways. 974 00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:11,000 He drops a, you know, an F bomb when it needs to be dropped and 975 00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:12,640 that kind of deal. He's just, he's just like a 976 00:44:12,640 --> 00:44:15,440 regular guy. Jenna Ellis was was highlighting 977 00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:17,120 something in a tweet that I saw this morning before we went 978 00:44:17,120 --> 00:44:18,760 live. And she said something to the 979 00:44:18,760 --> 00:44:21,560 fact of, you know, it should be noted that he's a paid Donald 980 00:44:21,560 --> 00:44:24,560 Trump spokesperson. And when I was a paid Donald 981 00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:26,480 Trump spokesperson, I was speaking on behalf of Donald 982 00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:29,720 Trump and not myself. And my, my, and I, I don't know 983 00:44:29,720 --> 00:44:31,680 if I actually sent the tweet or not, if I was thinking about it. 984 00:44:32,120 --> 00:44:36,200 But what do you call that when you sell yourself for something 985 00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:38,560 that you don't believe in? For me, I was imagining women 986 00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:41,720 who are willing to take money to pretend to be your girlfriend or 987 00:44:41,720 --> 00:44:44,960 to pretend to love you or to pretend to have feelings for you 988 00:44:44,960 --> 00:44:48,280 in some kind of way. Let's call it nicely, an escort. 989 00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:49,440 Like a digital. Are you? 990 00:44:49,520 --> 00:44:52,320 Are you a like you only get to do that for a little bit of time 991 00:44:52,320 --> 00:44:54,520 before that's pretty much permanently associated with you. 992 00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:57,120 And I don't have any grudge against Jenna Ellis, but, like, 993 00:44:57,120 --> 00:44:59,480 looking at what she's doing, it does seem kind of gross. 994 00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:01,360 It's not buying her any credibility on the left. 995 00:45:01,640 --> 00:45:02,720 And if you had done the same thing. 996 00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:04,320 Yeah, I did. I did tweet it. 997 00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:05,760 There you go. Here's my actual tweet. 998 00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:07,880 Let me read it to you. Doug, since we're talking about 999 00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:09,800 tweets here, I said if you're a spokesperson for someone you 1000 00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:11,280 don't agree with, what should we call you? 1001 00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:13,120 You only get to sell your honor once. 1002 00:45:13,120 --> 00:45:14,160 You should choose wisely, I guess. 1003 00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:18,360 You know, if she didn't agree with what what she was doing 1004 00:45:18,520 --> 00:45:21,960 with Trump, like that even speaks worse about her in many 1005 00:45:21,960 --> 00:45:24,280 ways, I would think. And the fact that you're holding 1006 00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:25,840 to your principle, I, I kind of respect it. 1007 00:45:25,840 --> 00:45:28,560 And also you're putting jail time on the line to do this. 1008 00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:32,600 It's not jail time, prison time. Yeah, exactly. 1009 00:45:32,600 --> 00:45:36,040 I mean, it never crossed my mind. 1010 00:45:36,040 --> 00:45:38,520 I've got to do this kind of groveling. 1011 00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:42,960 So, you know, some people go out and they hire, you know, quite 1012 00:45:43,520 --> 00:45:47,000 connected establishment Democrat lawyers. 1013 00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:49,080 Or PR. Or PR. 1014 00:45:49,080 --> 00:45:50,480 Firms and they do this whole thing. 1015 00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:54,640 And look, I think that my testimony at trial was very 1016 00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:56,360 honest. I think that the statement that 1017 00:45:56,360 --> 00:46:00,280 we just put out is also very honest, which is like, yeah, 1018 00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:03,640 this was a long time ago, in the past. 1019 00:46:03,640 --> 00:46:06,280 And I regret saying that they, you know, I regret the tone and 1020 00:46:06,280 --> 00:46:09,000 substance of some of these posts that were just over the line. 1021 00:46:09,920 --> 00:46:12,800 You know, they say, I don't think that I was the, you know, 1022 00:46:13,160 --> 00:46:15,480 they say, oh, he's the most prolific spreader, whatever. 1023 00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:17,000 I don't even want to get into all that, right. 1024 00:46:17,760 --> 00:46:20,080 I regret the tone and, and substance of some of these 1025 00:46:20,080 --> 00:46:22,760 posts. But that doesn't mean that sort 1026 00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:28,400 of, I just sort of don't, you know, I think that we have to be 1027 00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:33,360 careful in this country that we can debate ideas openly and then 1028 00:46:33,360 --> 00:46:36,280 we can talk about ideas openly. I mean, now you want to say, 1029 00:46:36,320 --> 00:46:40,280 well, don't say it in a way that pisses everybody off, right? 1030 00:46:41,120 --> 00:46:45,080 But we need to be able to talk about ideas that say, well, if 1031 00:46:45,080 --> 00:46:49,520 you believe in this or you argue this, then, you know, you're 1032 00:46:49,520 --> 00:46:52,000 just a terrible, horrible, awful person. 1033 00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:54,040 And then this is what sort of where we get into this sort of 1034 00:46:54,040 --> 00:46:57,760 cold civil war of going back and forth where we're at now. 1035 00:46:57,760 --> 00:47:00,200 And it's just, it makes it very difficult. 1036 00:47:01,320 --> 00:47:04,200 And the recriminations and the cancellations and everything 1037 00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:07,560 else said, you know, I think that a lot of people are moving 1038 00:47:07,560 --> 00:47:10,280 beyond that. I mean, it used to be like the 1039 00:47:10,280 --> 00:47:13,920 end of the world. So I mean when I got doxed and 1040 00:47:13,920 --> 00:47:16,400 Huffington Post came out with this hit piece on me. 1041 00:47:16,640 --> 00:47:18,680 What were the details? What were the details of the 1042 00:47:18,680 --> 00:47:19,880 doxing? Did they put out where you live 1043 00:47:19,880 --> 00:47:21,680 specifically or address or anything? 1044 00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:25,520 Not I mean they just general like where he used to work, 1045 00:47:25,520 --> 00:47:27,760 where he lives. Enough that people could. 1046 00:47:27,760 --> 00:47:30,080 Find, you know, they, they, they try to, you know, harass your 1047 00:47:30,080 --> 00:47:32,040 parents and get them to make a statement. 1048 00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:36,600 So that was a big deal. And a lot of these cancellations 1049 00:47:36,600 --> 00:47:41,560 were super devastating just because the media had this giant 1050 00:47:41,560 --> 00:47:46,120 megaphone and the people would sort of bend their will. 1051 00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:50,800 But I'm seeing now where people get quote UN quote cancelled, 1052 00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:51,960 but they're not really cancelled. 1053 00:47:51,960 --> 00:47:54,080 I mean, they are really sort of able to bounce back. 1054 00:47:55,000 --> 00:47:59,120 The difference is that whereas on the right or even in 1055 00:47:59,120 --> 00:48:02,320 conservative or whatever, in general, if you said one bad 1056 00:48:02,320 --> 00:48:04,160 thing, they would exile you forever. 1057 00:48:04,560 --> 00:48:08,360 You know, this is back in the days of like National Review is 1058 00:48:08,360 --> 00:48:12,480 like the Holy Bible of conservatism or whatever. 1059 00:48:12,480 --> 00:48:17,040 But now I think that a lot of people understand well, either 1060 00:48:17,080 --> 00:48:20,720 these things are exaggerated or it doesn't make you a horrible 1061 00:48:20,720 --> 00:48:25,360 person, that kind of thing. Or even just that, you know, 1062 00:48:25,360 --> 00:48:28,480 people say things that they don't even mean or when they're 1063 00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:30,400 younger, or they say politically incorrect things. 1064 00:48:30,720 --> 00:48:33,200 We don't need to crucify everybody for this stuff. 1065 00:48:33,200 --> 00:48:37,160 And I think people realize that. So I've seen several people just 1066 00:48:37,160 --> 00:48:43,040 in the last couple of years get sort of docked or trashed in the 1067 00:48:43,040 --> 00:48:44,800 mainstream and they're able to bounce back. 1068 00:48:44,800 --> 00:48:47,720 So that's encouraging. Yeah, at some point, people 1069 00:48:47,720 --> 00:48:48,760 won't remember your name for this. 1070 00:48:48,760 --> 00:48:51,040 So they go, Oh yeah, weren't you that guy that had this thing 1071 00:48:51,040 --> 00:48:52,960 happened? Let me let me dig into the free 1072 00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:54,880 speech aspect of it because I think you said it earlier. 1073 00:48:54,880 --> 00:48:56,040 I think you said it in a very nice way. 1074 00:48:56,040 --> 00:48:58,840 You said that the Founding fathers believe that our speech 1075 00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:02,080 could be caustic, that that's maybe what happens in the public 1076 00:49:02,080 --> 00:49:03,480 square. I'm going to stay in a slightly 1077 00:49:03,480 --> 00:49:05,520 different way because this is the way that I think about it. 1078 00:49:05,520 --> 00:49:08,000 I'm a former enlisted guy and someone who dealt with law 1079 00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:10,040 enforcement dudes and, you know, people who carried a gun for a 1080 00:49:10,040 --> 00:49:11,640 living. One of the ways that I always 1081 00:49:11,640 --> 00:49:13,840 say it is that you actually have a like a fundamental 1082 00:49:14,080 --> 00:49:16,120 constitutional right to be an asshole in this country. 1083 00:49:17,200 --> 00:49:20,240 And I and I firmly believe that. In fact, my father, who probably 1084 00:49:20,240 --> 00:49:23,720 is listening to the show right now, used to give a speech, and 1085 00:49:23,720 --> 00:49:25,600 there's a framed version of this speech. 1086 00:49:25,600 --> 00:49:27,320 Well, maybe he's only given this one time, but I've seen it a 1087 00:49:27,320 --> 00:49:29,200 million times. It's him standing in front of a 1088 00:49:29,200 --> 00:49:30,920 crowd of people. They were all broadcasters. 1089 00:49:31,280 --> 00:49:34,200 And he started off with kind of an inappropriate joke like 1090 00:49:34,200 --> 00:49:35,640 people used to do to grab attention. 1091 00:49:35,640 --> 00:49:38,480 The icebreaker piece. This is a very 80s, maybe late 1092 00:49:38,480 --> 00:49:41,120 70s speech. And he said, what's 18 inches 1093 00:49:41,120 --> 00:49:42,600 long and hangs in front of an asshole. 1094 00:49:43,480 --> 00:49:46,520 My tie, he goes and then it it goes on. 1095 00:49:46,520 --> 00:49:47,520 He goes, I know you guys are out there. 1096 00:49:47,520 --> 00:49:50,160 I can hear you guys breathing. So he, I mean, I've seen that 1097 00:49:50,160 --> 00:49:52,560 written in written form a million times. 1098 00:49:52,960 --> 00:49:55,200 And we used to know in this country that that was actually a 1099 00:49:55,200 --> 00:49:57,560 fundamental right. And it was even worse in the 50s 1100 00:49:57,560 --> 00:50:00,040 and the 60s. I'm sure 70s and 80s, as I, you 1101 00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:02,080 know, came online and started being aware of it. 1102 00:50:02,480 --> 00:50:04,520 You can be an asshole in this country and it's allowed. 1103 00:50:04,800 --> 00:50:06,960 Like there's not a justice system that's supposed to come 1104 00:50:06,960 --> 00:50:09,680 after you for that. And you experienced the exact 1105 00:50:09,760 --> 00:50:12,240 opposite it. It had to have been staggering. 1106 00:50:12,240 --> 00:50:13,440 Did you? Did you think they were joking 1107 00:50:13,440 --> 00:50:14,680 when they came at you the first time? 1108 00:50:16,200 --> 00:50:18,880 You know, it's crazy. I actually, because Joe Biden 1109 00:50:18,880 --> 00:50:22,360 had just been inaugurated, I know that they can sort of, you 1110 00:50:22,360 --> 00:50:25,120 know, there's this guy Harvey Silverglate or something like 1111 00:50:25,120 --> 00:50:28,600 that who wrote this book. He's sort of a legend. 3 1112 00:50:28,600 --> 00:50:30,800 felonies a day. Yes. 1113 00:50:30,800 --> 00:50:33,440 And the whole promise is that, you know, every, the average 1114 00:50:33,440 --> 00:50:36,760 person goes around and commits 3 felonies every day without even 1115 00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:39,240 knowing it. So I kind of knew that this is 1116 00:50:39,240 --> 00:50:41,240 what they can do, that they can manufacture. 1117 00:50:41,800 --> 00:50:45,600 And I knew that I was sort of a Public Enemy to these kind of 1118 00:50:45,600 --> 00:50:48,400 people. So actually it's funny that I 1119 00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:52,440 wasn't even that surprised. You know, it's kind of that's. 1120 00:50:52,440 --> 00:50:54,800 Actually, really disappointing. That's the saddest thing. 1121 00:50:54,960 --> 00:50:57,160 Exactly. Talk about the timeline because 1122 00:50:57,160 --> 00:51:00,200 I think people need to know about this as far because you 1123 00:51:00,200 --> 00:51:01,880 guys have discovery, you know, when they started the 1124 00:51:01,880 --> 00:51:03,760 investigations and so on. You talk about when it was 1125 00:51:03,760 --> 00:51:06,480 started and then why you think it progressed when it did. 1126 00:51:07,240 --> 00:51:08,520 Right. So what's really interesting is 1127 00:51:08,520 --> 00:51:12,920 that Senator Amy Klobuchar, she blew up one of these tweets on a 1128 00:51:12,920 --> 00:51:16,720 giant white board and put it on the floor. 1129 00:51:16,720 --> 00:51:18,960 And this might have been 2017. Well, I don't even know about 1130 00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:23,240 this until after the fact. And she's just staring at it and 1131 00:51:23,240 --> 00:51:26,160 like, pointing at it and she's berating sort of the FBI said, 1132 00:51:26,520 --> 00:51:29,880 look at this, this is a felony. Look at this, look at it. 1133 00:51:29,880 --> 00:51:33,200 And then it's like, so the investigation I don't think 1134 00:51:33,200 --> 00:51:38,400 formally opens up until 2018. And so they took that under 1135 00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:40,080 advisement. And they took it under 1136 00:51:40,080 --> 00:51:41,800 advisement. And then I think after I was 1137 00:51:41,800 --> 00:51:45,480 doxed, then they open up an investigation. 1138 00:51:46,200 --> 00:51:52,720 They knocked on the place I was living at door in 2018 in the 1139 00:51:52,720 --> 00:51:55,240 fall. And they, of course, asked a 1140 00:51:55,320 --> 00:51:58,280 completely unrelated question, like, have you ever, you know 1141 00:51:58,280 --> 00:52:01,120 what, you know, this guy, this specific guy. 1142 00:52:01,120 --> 00:52:04,360 And I said, you're going to have to talk to my attorney. 1143 00:52:04,680 --> 00:52:06,320 You know, I didn't have an attorney, but I got 1. 1144 00:52:06,320 --> 00:52:07,120 And that's. Smart. 1145 00:52:07,520 --> 00:52:09,880 Really smart. So they were dealing with the 1146 00:52:09,880 --> 00:52:13,840 attorney now. Well, so I never talked to the 1147 00:52:13,840 --> 00:52:15,680 FBI. You know, which a lot of these 1148 00:52:15,680 --> 00:52:17,880 people go, oh, yeah, I talked to the FBI. 1149 00:52:17,880 --> 00:52:19,720 The FBI says, OK, no harm, no foul. 1150 00:52:19,720 --> 00:52:21,840 They everything goes under the out of the bridge. 1151 00:52:21,840 --> 00:52:23,400 That wasn't going to happen. Sweep it under the rug. 1152 00:52:23,800 --> 00:52:25,400 What was the division that was investigating you? 1153 00:52:25,400 --> 00:52:26,840 Do you know like what what area of the? 1154 00:52:26,840 --> 00:52:28,800 Yes. What's interesting is that they 1155 00:52:28,800 --> 00:52:30,760 didn't run this. It's a civil rights case, right? 1156 00:52:30,840 --> 00:52:32,840 They didn't run this through civil rights division. 1157 00:52:33,320 --> 00:52:37,800 So it was a New York FBI, the New York field office, and then 1158 00:52:37,800 --> 00:52:40,360 it was run through public integrity. 1159 00:52:41,080 --> 00:52:43,080 They did not even run this through civil rights. 1160 00:52:43,480 --> 00:52:46,360 And and for people's awareness, public integrity is the public 1161 00:52:46,360 --> 00:52:49,800 corruptions unit. Which also handles elections. 1162 00:52:49,800 --> 00:52:53,440 However, you know, with a case like this that so implicates 1163 00:52:53,440 --> 00:52:56,680 civil rights, you would think that the civil rights division 1164 00:52:56,680 --> 00:52:59,720 under Trump would actually have a say now. 1165 00:53:00,120 --> 00:53:04,080 The charge because the charge, specifically the the charge 1166 00:53:04,080 --> 00:53:10,720 specifically was that there is conspiracy against rights, which 1167 00:53:10,720 --> 00:53:12,960 is a civil rights violation. Right. 1168 00:53:13,280 --> 00:53:15,560 Yeah, exactly. We get into the the text of the 1169 00:53:15,560 --> 00:53:17,280 statue. It's really interesting. 1170 00:53:17,920 --> 00:53:20,920 Never has covered deception in the history of this country. 1171 00:53:21,280 --> 00:53:24,840 The text says you cannot injure, intimidate, threaten or harass 1172 00:53:25,840 --> 00:53:28,400 or oppress. Excuse me, somebody in the 1173 00:53:28,400 --> 00:53:31,840 exercise of their right. So for instance, you and I 1174 00:53:31,840 --> 00:53:35,760 cannot go and beat the crap out of someone on their way to vote. 1175 00:53:35,800 --> 00:53:38,720 I mean, obviously this is obviously a legitimate. 1176 00:53:38,720 --> 00:53:41,640 Old school, like Chicago political machine stuff where 1177 00:53:41,640 --> 00:53:44,360 they'd be like, yeah, it'd be a real shame if anybody was not 1178 00:53:44,360 --> 00:53:46,160 going to be able to make it to the polls today because I'm 1179 00:53:46,160 --> 00:53:47,720 breaking your head like that guy it. 1180 00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:51,000 Goes older than that. This goes back to the KKK. 1181 00:53:51,080 --> 00:53:54,880 I mean, we, you know, we don't want the KKK going around and 1182 00:53:54,880 --> 00:53:57,360 murdering people for voting, which has happened before. 1183 00:53:57,840 --> 00:54:00,760 And intimidating, which they did as well, yes, and sending a 1184 00:54:00,760 --> 00:54:04,240 message to one person for sure. So this was the idea of it. 1185 00:54:04,240 --> 00:54:06,360 The conspiracy against rights was done like so many things 1186 00:54:06,360 --> 00:54:09,560 that we've seen in a post Trump world, just like the the 1187 00:54:09,560 --> 00:54:12,720 Sarbanes-Oxley law was used to go after people for interruption 1188 00:54:12,720 --> 00:54:16,920 of a official procedure. In many ways, your your case was 1189 00:54:16,920 --> 00:54:20,480 the first shot fired in this sort of Biden administration war 1190 00:54:20,480 --> 00:54:22,400 against conservatives. And and I, I don't say that 1191 00:54:22,400 --> 00:54:25,000 lightly, like I don't say the idea of a war against 1192 00:54:25,000 --> 00:54:27,080 conservatives. It does appear to be a very real 1193 00:54:27,080 --> 00:54:29,840 thing. Did you know that you guys were 1194 00:54:29,840 --> 00:54:32,280 the the the tip of the spear on this when it started? 1195 00:54:33,040 --> 00:54:36,640 You know, I, I have to admit to being even a little bit naive, 1196 00:54:36,680 --> 00:54:39,200 like, you know, I know I got indicted and everything, but I 1197 00:54:39,200 --> 00:54:41,560 didn't think that they were going to do what they did these 1198 00:54:41,560 --> 00:54:44,520 past few years. I mean, all the indictments that 1199 00:54:44,520 --> 00:54:46,640 they've thrown around. I mean, you talked about in your 1200 00:54:46,640 --> 00:54:51,360 pre show Marco Marcouk, I'm not sure exactly say his name and 1201 00:54:51,360 --> 00:54:53,440 what they did to him. Now here's where it gets 1202 00:54:53,440 --> 00:54:57,920 interesting. The DOJ actually, I believe if 1203 00:54:57,920 --> 00:55:01,680 I'm not mistaken, they charged Mark Howe with the violating the 1204 00:55:01,680 --> 00:55:03,200 FACE Act, correct? Right. 1205 00:55:03,640 --> 00:55:08,520 But they also charged him with conspiracy against rights, same 1206 00:55:08,520 --> 00:55:10,120 exact statute that I was charged with. 1207 00:55:10,440 --> 00:55:12,480 Yeah, it's a catch all. So this is a liberal 1208 00:55:12,480 --> 00:55:15,280 prosecutor's pipe dream. It's been a liberal prosecutor's 1209 00:55:15,280 --> 00:55:19,600 pipe dream for a long time that we can use this statute to crack 1210 00:55:19,600 --> 00:55:23,040 down on the right. They've long wanted to do this. 1211 00:55:23,200 --> 00:55:27,440 I mean, I mean, it it, you know, it's interesting too, right? 1212 00:55:27,440 --> 00:55:30,040 Because the Supreme Court just said there's no federal right to 1213 00:55:30,040 --> 00:55:34,280 abortion. So it's curious how they can 1214 00:55:34,280 --> 00:55:37,000 convict someone of, you know, conspiracy gets rights for 1215 00:55:37,000 --> 00:55:40,000 protesting or even blocking an abortion clinic, whatever they 1216 00:55:40,000 --> 00:55:43,400 were doing. Yeah, I think the FACE Act 1217 00:55:43,400 --> 00:55:46,400 probably has some review that is required under a constitutional 1218 00:55:46,720 --> 00:55:48,800 and maybe some of these people will will end up that way. 1219 00:55:48,800 --> 00:55:50,400 That'd be really nice to see. It's an extra. 1220 00:55:50,440 --> 00:55:52,400 I had never thought that point. So I appreciate you kind of 1221 00:55:53,320 --> 00:55:55,400 that's, that's an interesting thought to add to the mix. 1222 00:55:55,880 --> 00:55:59,680 But the, the weirdest thing about conspiracy for me as 1223 00:55:59,680 --> 00:56:02,920 someone who used to do federal law enforcement, is that it, it 1224 00:56:02,920 --> 00:56:08,280 hinges on your intent. And I would argue both as a, as 1225 00:56:08,280 --> 00:56:11,080 a lifelong Catholic who I've never been inside anybody else's 1226 00:56:11,080 --> 00:56:12,000 mind. I don't know if you've ever been 1227 00:56:12,000 --> 00:56:14,200 able to capture somebody's mind and see the way that they think, 1228 00:56:14,200 --> 00:56:16,960 but I haven't. It's really, really difficult 1229 00:56:16,960 --> 00:56:21,920 for me to say what intent is and to be able to prove it to other 1230 00:56:21,920 --> 00:56:25,760 people is even weirder that what I I can believe that you had a 1231 00:56:25,760 --> 00:56:28,720 certain intent, but I couldn't look at your tweets and and 1232 00:56:29,000 --> 00:56:30,920 decide why. And if I said, because I used to 1233 00:56:30,920 --> 00:56:31,920 do this all the time, I'd go interview. 1234 00:56:32,040 --> 00:56:35,320 Hey, why did you do that? Hey, you just did a threat or 1235 00:56:35,320 --> 00:56:38,240 you just said something that was menacing, you know, and you and 1236 00:56:38,240 --> 00:56:39,680 I would get these Interstate threat cases. 1237 00:56:39,680 --> 00:56:43,200 They'd come down the line and they would go, Kyle, Doug just 1238 00:56:43,200 --> 00:56:47,960 tweeted out, you know, we're coming for you to the mayor of 1239 00:56:47,960 --> 00:56:51,000 his town. We're taking that as a threat to 1240 00:56:51,000 --> 00:56:53,160 life. So I'd call you up because I'm 1241 00:56:53,160 --> 00:56:54,320 not going to drive out there for that. 1242 00:56:54,760 --> 00:56:56,680 I go, hey, Doug, you just said that we're coming for you to the 1243 00:56:56,680 --> 00:56:57,640 mayor. What did you mean by that? 1244 00:56:58,160 --> 00:57:01,280 And you go, I'm I'm running for for office next year. 1245 00:57:01,280 --> 00:57:02,960 I've filed my paperwork. We're coming for him. 1246 00:57:02,960 --> 00:57:05,240 We're going to get his job. Case closed. 1247 00:57:05,760 --> 00:57:07,480 Case closed. I don't know what your intent 1248 00:57:07,480 --> 00:57:10,080 was by looking at it. I can ask you, you can tell me 1249 00:57:10,080 --> 00:57:12,760 it sounds reasonable. If I ask you, hey, did you mean 1250 00:57:12,760 --> 00:57:16,720 to deprive Hillary Clinton, you know, voters of their right to 1251 00:57:16,720 --> 00:57:19,600 vote by this tweet? And you go, I know it was a 1252 00:57:19,600 --> 00:57:21,520 joke. Right now, exactly. 1253 00:57:21,920 --> 00:57:23,640 That's the most obvious explanation. 1254 00:57:23,640 --> 00:57:25,280 It looks like a joke. Yep. 1255 00:57:25,560 --> 00:57:28,360 It's on a forum where you post nothing but jokes, some of which 1256 00:57:28,360 --> 00:57:32,560 may be inappropriate unless you unless you have a political 1257 00:57:32,560 --> 00:57:35,600 bias, which is what we've seen. Right, That's exactly right. 1258 00:57:35,600 --> 00:57:38,400 Now this gets into the perversity of the prosecution 1259 00:57:38,400 --> 00:57:43,200 even further because what happened was they took this case 1260 00:57:43,200 --> 00:57:47,360 into the Eastern District of New York and why they have to so 1261 00:57:47,360 --> 00:57:51,040 well, that's a great question. So apparently I don't know 1262 00:57:51,040 --> 00:57:53,400 exactly what's going on with because it's the New York field 1263 00:57:53,400 --> 00:57:55,400 office, right. So apparently the Southern 1264 00:57:55,400 --> 00:57:57,520 District either laughed as prosecution out. 1265 00:57:57,520 --> 00:57:58,840 They don't want anything to do with it Which. 1266 00:57:59,040 --> 00:58:01,800 By the way, that in and of itself is wild because it's one 1267 00:58:01,800 --> 00:58:04,320 of the softest places for prosecution for the federal 1268 00:58:04,320 --> 00:58:06,440 government. Southern District is like, oh, 1269 00:58:06,440 --> 00:58:08,280 you want to get a terrorist? You want to guarantee to get 1270 00:58:08,280 --> 00:58:10,320 them, go to Southern District in New York. 1271 00:58:10,520 --> 00:58:12,680 There's three soft seats for federal prosecution, which you 1272 00:58:12,680 --> 00:58:14,680 may already know. Southern District, Eastern 1273 00:58:14,680 --> 00:58:16,880 District of Virginia, and the District of DC. 1274 00:58:16,960 --> 00:58:20,000 Those are all captured areas. Eastern District is not on my 1275 00:58:20,000 --> 00:58:21,640 radar. It's obviously a Democrat area, 1276 00:58:21,640 --> 00:58:23,920 but still it's not the one that they go for the top three. 1277 00:58:24,680 --> 00:58:26,040 Yeah. No, it's really interesting. 1278 00:58:26,040 --> 00:58:28,520 It's so it's curious in and of itself, but there's no 1279 00:58:28,520 --> 00:58:31,960 connection for this case to the Eastern District. 1280 00:58:32,920 --> 00:58:34,360 I was not in the Eastern District. 1281 00:58:34,600 --> 00:58:36,440 OK, So you didn't live in, you didn't live in Brooklyn? 1282 00:58:36,960 --> 00:58:41,480 Did not live in Brooklyn. OK, 0 conspirators lived in the 1283 00:58:41,480 --> 00:58:43,320 Eastern District of New York. OK. 1284 00:58:43,560 --> 00:58:47,560 Now the DOJ also was not able to prove that anybody viewed the 1285 00:58:47,560 --> 00:58:50,240 meme in the Eastern District of New York. 1286 00:58:51,520 --> 00:58:54,040 They were not able to prove that anybody in the Eastern District 1287 00:58:54,040 --> 00:58:57,960 of New York fell for the meme OK and didn't vote or? 1288 00:58:57,960 --> 00:59:00,840 Even so, nobody was victimized. And usually what has to happen 1289 00:59:00,840 --> 00:59:02,640 for this to be the case, you either have to have the victim 1290 00:59:02,640 --> 00:59:05,280 or the perpetrator be directly associated with the district 1291 00:59:05,280 --> 00:59:06,560 that you bring the charges, right? 1292 00:59:06,560 --> 00:59:07,920 That's not the case. Exactly. 1293 00:59:07,920 --> 00:59:09,680 And I don't know what they thought I was thought I was just 1294 00:59:09,680 --> 00:59:11,920 going to roll over and, and and plea out. 1295 00:59:12,400 --> 00:59:14,240 They did, just to be fair. That's what they think. 1296 00:59:14,600 --> 00:59:16,400 That's what happens 98% of the time. 1297 00:59:16,960 --> 00:59:17,960 Right. I think they're probably 1298 00:59:17,960 --> 00:59:20,760 surprised by the whole, you know, everything that happened. 1299 00:59:20,760 --> 00:59:24,200 But anyway, so here's what they said. 1300 00:59:24,200 --> 00:59:29,640 They said we they proved that the tweets had to have gone over 1301 00:59:29,640 --> 00:59:34,120 the wire or through the air over the Hudson River or the East 1302 00:59:34,120 --> 00:59:37,920 River. And the Eastern District shares 1303 00:59:37,920 --> 00:59:41,040 jurisdiction with the Southern District over the waters 1304 00:59:41,720 --> 00:59:45,560 surrounding Manhattan. Therefore, we can bring this 1305 00:59:45,560 --> 00:59:47,840 case in the Eastern District of New York, which is really sort 1306 00:59:47,840 --> 00:59:52,920 of unprecedented. This would set up, if this case 1307 00:59:54,040 --> 00:59:57,200 is held up in court, this venue argument that is setting a 1308 00:59:57,200 --> 01:00:01,240 precedent in and of itself that sort of if they can prove that 1309 01:00:01,880 --> 01:00:07,160 tweets go over wires, then they can prosecute this case wherever 1310 01:00:07,160 --> 01:00:09,760 they want. They can drag a conservative. 1311 01:00:10,640 --> 01:00:14,040 Into DC. Where did you live at the time? 1312 01:00:14,200 --> 01:00:15,760 Were you living in Manhattan? In Manhattan. 1313 01:00:16,200 --> 01:00:18,280 Exactly. Manhattan, they can drag a 1314 01:00:18,280 --> 01:00:20,920 liberal into Wyoming, whatever Eastern District of Texas, 1315 01:00:21,000 --> 01:00:26,440 whatever, you know, it's really jaw-dropping. 1316 01:00:26,440 --> 01:00:30,240 And venue was written into the Constitution because Americans 1317 01:00:30,240 --> 01:00:34,360 were being dragged to London or wherever and being prosecuted by 1318 01:00:34,360 --> 01:00:37,640 the Crown. So that's exactly why they said 1319 01:00:37,640 --> 01:00:41,600 you can only be prosecuted in the district where the crime was 1320 01:00:41,600 --> 01:00:44,600 committed. Now, there are some cases of 1321 01:00:44,600 --> 01:00:48,360 like drug dealers and stuff where you make a phone call to 1322 01:00:48,360 --> 01:00:50,280 your connection from New York to Florida. 1323 01:00:50,600 --> 01:00:53,440 So if you're in New York, you call your drug dealer, whatever 1324 01:00:53,440 --> 01:00:55,880 your drug, connect down to Florida, say, yeah, send me the 1325 01:00:55,880 --> 01:00:57,600 drugs, whatever. Then they can prosecute you in 1326 01:00:57,600 --> 01:01:01,040 Florida, but they can't prosecute you in every state 1327 01:01:01,040 --> 01:01:02,480 that that phone call went through. 1328 01:01:03,600 --> 01:01:04,800 Right. We're not going to trace the 1329 01:01:04,800 --> 01:01:06,640 wire. And so just so folks have an 1330 01:01:06,640 --> 01:01:08,480 understanding of this, when we talk about Interstate 1331 01:01:08,480 --> 01:01:10,840 jurisdictions, a lot of the things that the FBI would have 1332 01:01:10,840 --> 01:01:13,160 jurisdiction on Interstate threats, which you just 1333 01:01:13,160 --> 01:01:14,480 mentioned, that was a fictional idea. 1334 01:01:14,840 --> 01:01:17,720 Someone actually did say I'm coming for you to a mayor and I 1335 01:01:17,720 --> 01:01:19,840 actually did make that phone call and asked why and I 1336 01:01:19,840 --> 01:01:22,200 actually did get that answer. So that's not fictional, but you 1337 01:01:22,200 --> 01:01:24,000 know, the idea idea of you being involved in it. 1338 01:01:24,760 --> 01:01:27,560 But the reason that the FBI has jurisdiction on a local person 1339 01:01:27,560 --> 01:01:29,400 making a so-called local threat is because they post it on the 1340 01:01:29,400 --> 01:01:32,080 Internet, which means that it goes over wire, which makes it 1341 01:01:32,080 --> 01:01:34,040 an Interstate Nexus. That's what they call it. 1342 01:01:34,040 --> 01:01:35,960 You guys are you guys are new to this show. 1343 01:01:35,960 --> 01:01:40,680 The concept of an Interstate Nexus is that there is a reason 1344 01:01:40,680 --> 01:01:42,200 for a federal authority to touch it. 1345 01:01:42,200 --> 01:01:44,200 Even though it happened within the state because it was posted 1346 01:01:44,200 --> 01:01:45,920 on the Internet. It could be viewed all around. 1347 01:01:46,160 --> 01:01:49,160 In your case, you're posting me those memes are on the Internet. 1348 01:01:49,160 --> 01:01:51,760 That means an Interstate Nexus. That means the federal 1349 01:01:51,760 --> 01:01:54,720 government can get involved. But so interesting that it's 1350 01:01:54,720 --> 01:01:57,400 kind of a Canary in the coal mine for both free speech, which 1351 01:01:57,400 --> 01:01:59,960 I think is definitely part of it, but also for jurisdictional 1352 01:01:59,960 --> 01:02:01,960 selection, which I did not realize. 1353 01:02:02,480 --> 01:02:04,200 Right. And when we talk about a police 1354 01:02:04,200 --> 01:02:07,760 state trying to over expand its powers, man, they don't do it by 1355 01:02:07,760 --> 01:02:09,440 accident. They didn't accidentally choose 1356 01:02:09,440 --> 01:02:11,840 your case. It sounds like that was a very 1357 01:02:11,840 --> 01:02:15,200 specific movement that they were trying to make a a precedent set 1358 01:02:15,200 --> 01:02:18,280 there. It's very concerning and and, 1359 01:02:18,280 --> 01:02:19,960 you know, we're going to see what the courts say about it. 1360 01:02:21,040 --> 01:02:24,320 What is the absolutely, extremely concerning it should 1361 01:02:24,320 --> 01:02:27,520 be to every American. I mean, This is why, you know, 1362 01:02:28,200 --> 01:02:30,800 you know, CNN or whoever does these hit pieces and it's like 1363 01:02:30,920 --> 01:02:32,280 they're kind of missing the point. 1364 01:02:32,920 --> 01:02:36,560 This is not about whether you love me or hate me or whether 1365 01:02:36,560 --> 01:02:38,800 you agree with everything I said or whether you hate everything I 1366 01:02:38,800 --> 01:02:40,360 said. This is about every American's 1367 01:02:40,360 --> 01:02:43,280 right. It seems straightforward. 1368 01:02:43,280 --> 01:02:45,280 That's why the ACLU used to defend Nazis. 1369 01:02:46,200 --> 01:02:48,080 Right, exactly. That was actually a liberal 1370 01:02:48,080 --> 01:02:49,440 value. They were like, hey, we don't 1371 01:02:49,440 --> 01:02:51,520 like what they say. We don't want them marching 1372 01:02:51,520 --> 01:02:52,960 anywhere, but they have the right to March. 1373 01:02:53,640 --> 01:02:56,880 Because if if the crappiest opinions can't be shared, then 1374 01:02:56,880 --> 01:02:58,960 all opinions are somewhere on that spectrum. 1375 01:02:59,560 --> 01:03:01,080 And. We don't want that spectrum to 1376 01:03:01,080 --> 01:03:02,960 even be analyzed. The federal government is 1377 01:03:02,960 --> 01:03:05,280 supposed to be agnostic about speech, whether they like what 1378 01:03:05,280 --> 01:03:07,720 you said about Jews or blacks or Hillary Clinton voters or 1379 01:03:07,720 --> 01:03:11,800 anybody else or Donald Trump. Like, So what Look, the answer 1380 01:03:11,800 --> 01:03:14,080 should be, what's the federal Nexus? 1381 01:03:14,160 --> 01:03:17,160 And if it's Interstate wire and our and our belief that we're 1382 01:03:17,160 --> 01:03:19,840 going to get into your head that you are conspiring to destroy 1383 01:03:20,320 --> 01:03:22,680 some people's ability to go vote because they're too stupid to 1384 01:03:22,680 --> 01:03:24,320 know that they can't, they can't read. 1385 01:03:24,480 --> 01:03:26,600 You know, wouldn't it be nice if we actually had some 1386 01:03:26,600 --> 01:03:29,000 requirements that you had to be able to at least know how to 1387 01:03:29,000 --> 01:03:31,760 vote to be able to vote, that if you were swayed by a meme like 1388 01:03:31,760 --> 01:03:34,400 that actually is a disqualifier. It's like, sorry, you fell for 1389 01:03:34,400 --> 01:03:35,760 the trap. Like you can't vote. 1390 01:03:36,080 --> 01:03:38,360 You're too dumb. You're actually a liability more 1391 01:03:38,360 --> 01:03:40,400 than the guy who made the meme, I think. 1392 01:03:40,400 --> 01:03:41,760 Right. I mean, the sad thing is that 1393 01:03:41,760 --> 01:03:45,040 nowadays in 2024, it might actually be more believable 1394 01:03:45,040 --> 01:03:46,920 because you have this mass mail and balloting. 1395 01:03:46,960 --> 01:03:49,160 They're setting up ballots, you know, to everybody. 1396 01:03:50,200 --> 01:03:52,880 And you know, some of these houses are getting 20 ballots in 1397 01:03:52,880 --> 01:03:56,560 the mail. So I, I registered last to vote 1398 01:03:56,560 --> 01:04:03,000 in California because I lived in outside of Los Angeles in 2007. 1399 01:04:03,000 --> 01:04:06,160 I think, I think I was, I think I, I think I registered in 2007 1400 01:04:06,800 --> 01:04:09,880 and I still get a ballot sent to my last address. 1401 01:04:09,880 --> 01:04:13,320 And I've emailed them and I've called them and they said you 1402 01:04:13,320 --> 01:04:16,480 need to go and get a sworn notarized affidavit. 1403 01:04:18,080 --> 01:04:20,720 I'm not kidding. To get off the rolls of, of 1404 01:04:20,720 --> 01:04:23,280 being a voter in California, which I have now lived since 1405 01:04:23,280 --> 01:04:25,200 that time. I lived in Texas where I was 1406 01:04:25,200 --> 01:04:30,040 stationed for military service. Then I lived in New Mexico, 1407 01:04:30,720 --> 01:04:33,800 official residence. Then I lived back in Texas, then 1408 01:04:33,800 --> 01:04:37,080 I lived in Virginia, then I lived in New Mexico again, then 1409 01:04:37,080 --> 01:04:39,800 I lived in Arizona and now I live in Texas again since that 1410 01:04:39,800 --> 01:04:41,400 time. And I'm still got there's still 1411 01:04:41,400 --> 01:04:43,360 a mail in ballot with my name on it that was just mailed out. 1412 01:04:43,480 --> 01:04:45,560 I get I get notification though, like we just mailed your ballot. 1413 01:04:45,640 --> 01:04:48,560 Like hey. Have you ever gotten to see if 1414 01:04:48,560 --> 01:04:52,040 they? I've never seen one sent. 1415 01:04:53,560 --> 01:04:55,040 We just look like we do. We get a freeze right there, 1416 01:04:55,040 --> 01:04:57,920 Ryan. Yes Sir, he is frozen and I 1417 01:04:57,920 --> 01:04:59,920 probably can't hear us, so you might want to reach out to him 1418 01:04:59,920 --> 01:05:02,160 and tell him to log out and log back in. 1419 01:05:02,680 --> 01:05:04,280 Let me show them a quick little DM here. 1420 01:05:04,280 --> 01:05:06,120 We'll have them do a reboot. Got it. 1421 01:05:06,200 --> 01:05:07,840 I I want to you. Need to film that, Kyle. 1422 01:05:07,960 --> 01:05:11,680 That'd be awesome to film you recording that and you know, 1423 01:05:11,920 --> 01:05:14,720 like you pulling out the ballot and trying to get it taken. 1424 01:05:14,720 --> 01:05:15,600 Off. I can't get the ballot there. 1425 01:05:15,640 --> 01:05:16,600 There is no ballot. I'll show. 1426 01:05:16,680 --> 01:05:18,400 You about that guys? Yeah, no, that was perfect. 1427 01:05:18,400 --> 01:05:20,080 You just did a great job. I was just about to DM you and 1428 01:05:20,080 --> 01:05:23,440 tell you to to come back in and and you didn't miss anything. 1429 01:05:23,440 --> 01:05:26,200 All all I'm saying is it's it's amazing to me that that is not 1430 01:05:26,200 --> 01:05:29,360 considered a threat that California as a state, the 1431 01:05:29,400 --> 01:05:31,840 Secretary of State will not take your name off the voters rolls 1432 01:05:31,840 --> 01:05:33,640 without me going through a bunch of rigmarole. 1433 01:05:34,120 --> 01:05:36,520 And I also was told that after three presidential election 1434 01:05:36,520 --> 01:05:38,920 cycles, then I would be removed anyway. 1435 01:05:40,120 --> 01:05:44,920 And so we had the presidential election cycle of 12 of 16, of 1436 01:05:44,920 --> 01:05:47,560 20. We are now coming up on 24. 1437 01:05:47,560 --> 01:05:50,440 We've gone through the three. I'm still registered. 1438 01:05:50,440 --> 01:05:52,960 I still get emails from like people in Glendale saying like, 1439 01:05:52,960 --> 01:05:55,640 hey, I'm running for office. It's like, dude, I don't, I 1440 01:05:55,640 --> 01:05:57,560 don't care. Of course, and if someone filled 1441 01:05:57,560 --> 01:05:59,720 it out, then you would, you know, you could come under 1442 01:05:59,720 --> 01:06:01,200 investigation for vote. I would love. 1443 01:06:01,240 --> 01:06:03,360 That that would make me nothing. Nothing would make me happier 1444 01:06:03,360 --> 01:06:05,720 than that because it would be amazing proof of how stupid 1445 01:06:05,720 --> 01:06:06,280 their. System is. 1446 01:06:06,840 --> 01:06:08,080 That's why they'll never do it right. 1447 01:06:08,400 --> 01:06:10,480 I don't know if they'll do it or not, but I, I, every time I 1448 01:06:10,480 --> 01:06:14,360 look, I cannot find a anyone has ever used my ballot, but 1449 01:06:14,360 --> 01:06:16,880 somebody gets it in the mail every year, every two years, 1450 01:06:17,040 --> 01:06:20,320 which is sort of incredible for a place that I haven't lived, 1451 01:06:20,760 --> 01:06:22,920 you know, since 2009. Yeah. 1452 01:06:23,080 --> 01:06:25,200 Yeah. They don't even ask if you want 1453 01:06:25,200 --> 01:06:26,200 the ballot, they just said it to you. 1454 01:06:26,200 --> 01:06:27,640 You. Want to talk about being a 1455 01:06:27,640 --> 01:06:30,200 different person in 2009, I was unmarried. 1456 01:06:30,200 --> 01:06:33,280 I was a single guy who had just enlisted in the military. 1457 01:06:33,280 --> 01:06:35,000 And today I'm the father of four. 1458 01:06:35,000 --> 01:06:38,120 I'm a cancelled FBI agent and I've, you know, I'm an honorably 1459 01:06:38,120 --> 01:06:40,480 discharged veteran. So like that's a pretty big 1460 01:06:40,680 --> 01:06:43,320 that's a pretty big life gap and I know you kind of must feel the 1461 01:06:43,320 --> 01:06:44,840 same way. Eight years is a long time, 1462 01:06:44,840 --> 01:06:46,720 particularly in your 20s and early 30's. 1463 01:06:47,360 --> 01:06:50,440 The the sort of the change that you've had over and from talking 1464 01:06:50,440 --> 01:06:53,120 to you, correct me if I'm wrong here, but you don't seem like 1465 01:06:53,120 --> 01:06:56,000 the most extroverted, like looking for trouble kind of guy, 1466 01:06:56,320 --> 01:06:58,200 maybe online, but it doesn't seem like that's your your 1467 01:06:58,200 --> 01:07:01,080 personality. No, it's not my personality, but 1468 01:07:01,080 --> 01:07:03,680 I would say that, you know, I don't, you know, I don't back 1469 01:07:03,680 --> 01:07:06,320 down, right. Which is why, which is why I'm 1470 01:07:06,320 --> 01:07:08,680 where I'm at, you know, in this case. 1471 01:07:09,480 --> 01:07:11,000 So yeah, you're right. Absolutely. 1472 01:07:11,000 --> 01:07:14,480 I'm not the, you know, I'm not the most loudest, the loudest, 1473 01:07:14,480 --> 01:07:16,320 you know, most outgoing guy ever. 1474 01:07:17,360 --> 01:07:19,120 Why? Why do you think you don't back 1475 01:07:19,120 --> 01:07:21,760 down? I don't know, I think it's maybe 1476 01:07:21,760 --> 01:07:24,560 just, you know, in the blood. I'm not exactly sure. 1477 01:07:24,560 --> 01:07:27,720 I just, I, I always felt like, you know, you got to stand for 1478 01:07:27,720 --> 01:07:31,000 what's right. And I think that's part of being 1479 01:07:31,000 --> 01:07:34,600 an American too, where I even, you know, growing up in the 90s 1480 01:07:34,600 --> 01:07:37,360 or whatever, I can remember people say, well, you know, it's 1481 01:07:37,360 --> 01:07:40,040 a free country. You know, let's say, you know, 1482 01:07:40,040 --> 01:07:42,120 the little kids on the playground say one would say 1483 01:07:42,160 --> 01:07:45,400 something and another would say, you know, you can't tell me what 1484 01:07:45,400 --> 01:07:45,800 to do. It's. 1485 01:07:46,080 --> 01:07:48,000 Like can I play on the jungle gym too? 1486 01:07:48,000 --> 01:07:50,080 It's a free country. Yeah, that too. 1487 01:07:50,080 --> 01:07:51,760 Exactly. Can I have your meme? 1488 01:07:51,760 --> 01:07:53,440 I had someone ask me the other day can I take your meme? 1489 01:07:53,680 --> 01:07:54,880 I was like it used to be a free country. 1490 01:07:54,920 --> 01:07:56,920 I think so. Yeah, exactly. 1491 01:07:57,960 --> 01:07:59,640 So I don't know what it is exactly. 1492 01:07:59,640 --> 01:08:03,800 I mean, it's just, I don't know the constitutional or, you know, 1493 01:08:03,880 --> 01:08:05,480 or whether it's just sort of how I grew up. 1494 01:08:05,480 --> 01:08:07,760 But that's, you know, that's sort of how I've always been. 1495 01:08:08,520 --> 01:08:11,280 You offhandedly mentioned that you have a Catholic upbringing. 1496 01:08:11,360 --> 01:08:13,640 Are your parents Catholic? Actually, I didn't have a 1497 01:08:13,640 --> 01:08:14,920 Catholic upbringing. I. 1498 01:08:15,320 --> 01:08:17,120 Became you were talking. Were you talking about my Oh, 1499 01:08:17,160 --> 01:08:18,439 you became Catholic. All right, Tell me more. 1500 01:08:18,720 --> 01:08:21,240 I want to know. Yeah, no, I became Catholic back 1501 01:08:21,240 --> 01:08:26,200 in 2020 during COVID. So I went through the process 1502 01:08:26,200 --> 01:08:29,920 starting in 2019. So I had a sort of a like a more 1503 01:08:29,920 --> 01:08:33,160 like mainline Protestant background and, and upbringing. 1504 01:08:34,040 --> 01:08:36,800 But you know, going through everything that I did back in 1505 01:08:36,800 --> 01:08:42,439 2018 and 2019, which was extremely difficult coming down 1506 01:08:42,439 --> 01:08:45,520 to Florida, restarting my life. And I just had this sort of 1507 01:08:45,520 --> 01:08:51,760 spiritual moment where I kind of came to God and joined actually 1508 01:08:51,760 --> 01:08:55,640 the Catholic Church and. Why was that luring you in? 1509 01:08:57,760 --> 01:09:01,720 Well, I think that dealing with all these hardships is sort of 1510 01:09:01,920 --> 01:09:06,359 have to lean on something greater than myself and also 1511 01:09:06,359 --> 01:09:10,640 just sort of learning how to deal with adversity and struggle 1512 01:09:10,640 --> 01:09:15,399 and suffering. And so just through sort of 1513 01:09:15,399 --> 01:09:19,600 prayer, it was how I, you know, I sort of re came back to being 1514 01:09:19,600 --> 01:09:22,920 a Christian, right. And then sort of doing my own 1515 01:09:22,920 --> 01:09:28,319 research and looking into sort of what what church to join. 1516 01:09:28,319 --> 01:09:33,319 I just was convinced that the Catholic Church was sort of the 1517 01:09:34,600 --> 01:09:36,920 the original church the the the true church. 1518 01:09:36,920 --> 01:09:39,640 So that's the church that I ended up getting confirmed in. 1519 01:09:40,920 --> 01:09:42,279 Makes sense to me, but I'm biased. 1520 01:09:42,279 --> 01:09:43,880 I I grew up this way. I had it easy. 1521 01:09:44,640 --> 01:09:47,000 Let me ask you this. What did you think when I 1522 01:09:47,000 --> 01:09:50,160 exposed that story about the FBI going after Catholics in 1523 01:09:50,160 --> 01:09:51,880 Richmond? And obviously it's, it's many 1524 01:09:51,880 --> 01:09:53,800 other field offices were involved as well, right? 1525 01:09:54,160 --> 01:09:55,320 I mean, that's how did that hit you. 1526 01:09:55,840 --> 01:09:57,640 I mean, that's crazy. That was shocking. 1527 01:09:57,640 --> 01:10:00,520 I mean, honestly, what it really makes you think is like, you 1528 01:10:00,520 --> 01:10:04,080 know, you go to the parish or whatever, or you go and hang 1529 01:10:04,080 --> 01:10:07,800 out, you know, you know, maybe go to the Holy League or 1530 01:10:07,800 --> 01:10:11,640 whatever, and you're thinking, well, are the feds sending in, 1531 01:10:11,880 --> 01:10:15,200 you know, informants, confidential informants? 1532 01:10:15,200 --> 01:10:16,200 You're like, what's going on here? 1533 01:10:16,200 --> 01:10:18,560 This is crazy. I mean, you would think this 1534 01:10:18,560 --> 01:10:20,720 would happen. Of course, in like, you know, 1535 01:10:20,720 --> 01:10:24,120 we've seen this sort of repression in the Eastern 1536 01:10:24,120 --> 01:10:27,000 Europe, you know, or even in like Mexico. 1537 01:10:27,800 --> 01:10:30,560 It's where they've cracked down. It's just, it's shocking. 1538 01:10:30,600 --> 01:10:32,320 You never would think that would happen in America. 1539 01:10:32,600 --> 01:10:36,880 It it's what I remember thinking about when we think about what 1540 01:10:36,880 --> 01:10:39,560 was going on in like East Germany, which was really 1541 01:10:39,560 --> 01:10:42,000 aggressive only because it had a border with West Germany where 1542 01:10:42,000 --> 01:10:44,440 freedom was and they were like, aha, like you, we will not allow 1543 01:10:44,440 --> 01:10:47,920 you be free like as the papers right like that. 1544 01:10:47,920 --> 01:10:50,400 That's the memory I have things like spy game watching. 1545 01:10:50,600 --> 01:10:52,440 I just mentioned the other day on a on a show. 1546 01:10:52,440 --> 01:10:55,120 So I'll do it again. But Robert Redford and Brad Pitt 1547 01:10:55,120 --> 01:10:58,360 in this kind of great Cold War drama and like you see, like it 1548 01:10:58,360 --> 01:11:01,480 was life and death back then and they were sussing you out. 1549 01:11:01,480 --> 01:11:04,120 And if you had religious, you know, if you had religious 1550 01:11:04,120 --> 01:11:06,680 feelings and you were willing to practice a religion, like you 1551 01:11:06,680 --> 01:11:09,120 were a potential problem for the state. 1552 01:11:09,680 --> 01:11:12,440 And the idea that we would have, the idea we'd have that in 2023 1553 01:11:12,440 --> 01:11:15,640 America is so like, it's a mind job on me. 1554 01:11:16,280 --> 01:11:18,480 Right, exactly. And and especially when you look 1555 01:11:18,480 --> 01:11:20,920 at some of these purges, which they're not regretting from the 1556 01:11:20,920 --> 01:11:22,840 military or whatever. They're just trying to think, 1557 01:11:22,920 --> 01:11:25,800 come up with things that correlate with being on the 1558 01:11:25,800 --> 01:11:27,280 opposite side of the political spectrum. 1559 01:11:27,840 --> 01:11:31,800 Like you said, you know, if a federal officer or agent or 1560 01:11:31,800 --> 01:11:34,960 whatever doesn't want to get a vaccine, they don't want to wear 1561 01:11:34,960 --> 01:11:37,080 a mask. You know, they go to church 1562 01:11:37,560 --> 01:11:40,440 regularly. Well, maybe we should force them 1563 01:11:40,440 --> 01:11:44,520 out because these are all, you know, indicators that they are 1564 01:11:44,560 --> 01:11:47,320 threats to the state. These are proxies. 1565 01:11:47,960 --> 01:11:48,920 That's what we are seeing. Yeah. 1566 01:11:48,920 --> 01:11:50,560 They're stand insurance. They're proxies. 1567 01:11:50,760 --> 01:11:52,640 And and we actually had whistleblowers come out and say 1568 01:11:52,640 --> 01:11:54,800 the same thing about what me and Gerald O Boy were doing. 1569 01:11:55,000 --> 01:11:57,600 It's like they basically determined that military service 1570 01:11:57,800 --> 01:12:03,080 and that that the idea that you would have certain beliefs, 1571 01:12:03,400 --> 01:12:06,320 religious affiliation were literally stand insurance for 1572 01:12:06,320 --> 01:12:09,640 conservatism and conservatism is apparently the enemy. 1573 01:12:09,760 --> 01:12:10,880 I mean. Yeah. 1574 01:12:11,040 --> 01:12:13,280 How, how do you even square that with the way that we grew up? 1575 01:12:13,680 --> 01:12:16,000 Like even even with a decade between us, we're, we're about 1576 01:12:16,120 --> 01:12:19,920 810 years apart. So how do we square that in this 1577 01:12:19,920 --> 01:12:23,920 world? Well, you'd think that we want 1578 01:12:23,920 --> 01:12:27,760 law enforcement agents to have some agency, to have some 1579 01:12:27,760 --> 01:12:31,960 individualism, to sort of have a sense of right and wrong. 1580 01:12:32,080 --> 01:12:35,280 You know, these are not necessarily supposed in America, 1581 01:12:35,280 --> 01:12:38,720 at least you're not just supposed to be sort of an, a 1582 01:12:38,720 --> 01:12:41,400 robot automaton arm of the state. 1583 01:12:41,880 --> 01:12:44,160 You know, you're supposed to have sort of a conscience. 1584 01:12:44,520 --> 01:12:47,320 But this gets back to what we said or what I said earlier 1585 01:12:47,320 --> 01:12:50,520 about the preschool. And some people don't want that. 1586 01:12:50,520 --> 01:12:52,680 They don't want people thinking for themselves. 1587 01:12:53,320 --> 01:12:55,760 A lot of people, they don't want, you know, independent 1588 01:12:55,760 --> 01:12:58,680 agents coming to their own conclusions or or making 1589 01:12:58,680 --> 01:13:00,200 trouble. They want the preschool. 1590 01:13:00,480 --> 01:13:04,760 The teacher tells you what to say, what to do, what's good and 1591 01:13:04,760 --> 01:13:07,560 what's bad. And also in preschool, you have 1592 01:13:07,560 --> 01:13:09,560 the good kids and the bad kids, right? 1593 01:13:10,280 --> 01:13:13,760 If you're the bad kid, they want to put you in time out and 1594 01:13:13,760 --> 01:13:15,400 segregate you. And the ones that you know, 1595 01:13:15,400 --> 01:13:18,920 there's the good kids over here. And I think that this is what we 1596 01:13:18,920 --> 01:13:23,720 see a lot in in society where it's just people want the 1597 01:13:23,800 --> 01:13:27,200 America to be like a giant kindergarten rather than a 1598 01:13:27,400 --> 01:13:31,440 country of free people, free men and women who sort of have this 1599 01:13:31,440 --> 01:13:34,800 sort of sense of freedom, a sense of liberty. 1600 01:13:35,160 --> 01:13:38,240 That's what's being extinguished in a lot of these cases. 1601 01:13:38,760 --> 01:13:42,240 It's just, and that's the sort of Soviet aspect to it. 1602 01:13:43,160 --> 01:13:45,680 It's funny that I think it's I think it's my buddy Dan Bongino 1603 01:13:45,680 --> 01:13:47,240 that says the pucification of America. 1604 01:13:47,240 --> 01:13:49,440 I don't know if I stole that from him if I'm misattributing, 1605 01:13:49,440 --> 01:13:52,680 so correct me in the chat if you guys know that that's a damn 1606 01:13:52,680 --> 01:13:53,800 thing. But I'll call it the 1607 01:13:53,800 --> 01:13:57,600 infantilization of America, which is very, very accurate to 1608 01:13:57,600 --> 01:14:00,640 your preschool idea. They, they don't want people 1609 01:14:00,640 --> 01:14:03,760 thinking and just to affirm what you just said, I'll just use 1610 01:14:03,760 --> 01:14:06,320 some therapy talk 'cause that's what my wife's profession is, to 1611 01:14:06,320 --> 01:14:09,240 affirm the thing you just said. They actually don't provide a 1612 01:14:09,240 --> 01:14:11,360 lot of agency for people in the FBI. 1613 01:14:11,920 --> 01:14:13,680 You're not empowered to go do the right thing. 1614 01:14:13,680 --> 01:14:16,400 In fact, one of my buddies who was a Green Beret and I don't 1615 01:14:16,400 --> 01:14:18,640 think he listens, but but he could at sometimes they do. 1616 01:14:19,160 --> 01:14:23,640 He, he got written up because he reached out to a source. 1617 01:14:23,800 --> 01:14:25,840 The source said, hey, you know that bank robbery that just 1618 01:14:25,840 --> 01:14:27,240 happened. By the way, that's an FBI thing 1619 01:14:27,240 --> 01:14:30,840 because the FDIC is involved. So FBI crimes like bank robbery, 1620 01:14:31,440 --> 01:14:34,040 you would think that if somebody reached out like a source called 1621 01:14:34,040 --> 01:14:35,080 you up and you were an FBI agent. 1622 01:14:35,080 --> 01:14:38,120 And they said, I know the guy that just robbed that bank and I 1623 01:14:38,120 --> 01:14:40,120 know where he is and I don't know how long he's going to be 1624 01:14:40,120 --> 01:14:43,960 there, but he's there right now. And he called me up, which he 1625 01:14:43,960 --> 01:14:46,400 called one of his other buddies in the area and they went out 1626 01:14:46,400 --> 01:14:49,280 and they affected arrest of a known bank robber on probable 1627 01:14:49,280 --> 01:14:52,400 cause based on what was going on there and then brought the guy 1628 01:14:52,400 --> 01:14:53,440 in. And of course he had, you know, 1629 01:14:53,440 --> 01:14:55,880 like the gun from the from the robbery hitting the money. 1630 01:14:55,920 --> 01:14:57,840 And they were like, they were literally like divvying it up on 1631 01:14:57,840 --> 01:15:00,000 a table kind of deal. If you wouldn't arrested a bank 1632 01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:02,560 robbery right after a bank robbery that you have 1633 01:15:02,560 --> 01:15:05,360 jurisdiction to arrest on. He got written up for not 1634 01:15:05,480 --> 01:15:07,920 clearing it with an OPS plan and not getting together a SWAT 1635 01:15:07,920 --> 01:15:09,600 team, whatever else. This is a man who's like killed 1636 01:15:09,600 --> 01:15:11,880 people on three different continents, you know, and is and 1637 01:15:11,880 --> 01:15:14,040 is just like pretty capable of violence, brought him into 1638 01:15:14,040 --> 01:15:17,440 custody with no, with no danger, has arrested far more dangerous 1639 01:15:17,440 --> 01:15:20,760 people and far more dangerous places, you know, and, and he 1640 01:15:20,760 --> 01:15:22,840 got written up for it. That's the that's the FBI that 1641 01:15:22,840 --> 01:15:25,560 we're actually dealing with, which is also infantilization. 1642 01:15:26,120 --> 01:15:27,480 You, you can't look at your person. 1643 01:15:27,560 --> 01:15:29,320 They're not giving agents agency. 1644 01:15:29,320 --> 01:15:30,960 In fact, they are that. Do you know that? 1645 01:15:30,960 --> 01:15:32,920 Actually, that's where the term special agent comes from. 1646 01:15:34,000 --> 01:15:36,560 Right, because you're you're given some sort of leeway. 1647 01:15:36,640 --> 01:15:40,560 Sorry. You're given it's special 1648 01:15:40,560 --> 01:15:42,560 agency. If you're a special agent, it 1649 01:15:42,560 --> 01:15:44,480 means you are not a full agent of the government. 1650 01:15:44,720 --> 01:15:46,400 A full agent of the government is like Joe Biden. 1651 01:15:46,840 --> 01:15:49,200 It's the Secretary of State. They're able to make like big 1652 01:15:49,200 --> 01:15:51,120 sweeping deals. A special agent has narrow 1653 01:15:51,120 --> 01:15:52,480 jurisdiction and and authorities. 1654 01:15:52,640 --> 01:15:55,760 So as a special agent, theoretically, my credentials 1655 01:15:55,760 --> 01:15:58,240 used to say that anything that involves a federal crime or like 1656 01:15:58,240 --> 01:16:00,080 the United States may be a party to is something I can 1657 01:16:00,080 --> 01:16:01,560 investigate. You'd think that I'd have the 1658 01:16:01,560 --> 01:16:02,720 agency to do that, but you don't. 1659 01:16:02,720 --> 01:16:05,880 And then they're using it on guys like you who are out there 1660 01:16:05,880 --> 01:16:08,160 saying, hey, I just want to exercise my First Amendment 1661 01:16:08,160 --> 01:16:10,000 right. I may want to say things that 1662 01:16:10,000 --> 01:16:13,480 you don't like. Turns out, America, you're 1663 01:16:13,480 --> 01:16:15,720 allowed to do that. What did? 1664 01:16:15,720 --> 01:16:17,280 What does this cost you financially? 1665 01:16:17,280 --> 01:16:19,160 If you have any kind of idea, have you been able to put a 1666 01:16:19,160 --> 01:16:23,080 number on it? So personally, I put in, you 1667 01:16:23,080 --> 01:16:28,960 know, anything I can, any money I can in this case, but I am 1668 01:16:29,000 --> 01:16:32,120 completely unable to finance this case by myself. 1669 01:16:32,120 --> 01:16:35,360 So I'm very truly fortunate the American people have stood 1670 01:16:35,360 --> 01:16:38,400 behind me. Do you know what your what your 1671 01:16:38,400 --> 01:16:42,680 legal defenses run in this case? It's over 1,000,000. 1672 01:16:43,200 --> 01:16:45,280 OK. And what is the what is the 1673 01:16:45,280 --> 01:16:47,760 motivation of people kicking in on it if they've told you? 1674 01:16:47,760 --> 01:16:50,480 Because I'm very curious about what what sparks people to to 1675 01:16:50,480 --> 01:16:52,160 throw money into it. I think it's the right thing by 1676 01:16:52,160 --> 01:16:54,440 the way. Yeah, so a lot of people feel 1677 01:16:54,440 --> 01:16:59,120 like the principle of it, a lot of people, you know, know me 1678 01:16:59,120 --> 01:17:01,480 personally. And it's like, well, you know, I 1679 01:17:01,480 --> 01:17:03,920 kind of like this guy. He's not a bad guy. 1680 01:17:04,160 --> 01:17:07,680 And then there's people who are like, well, you know, they 1681 01:17:07,680 --> 01:17:13,320 really had a lot of fun back in the what it called me more days, 1682 01:17:14,080 --> 01:17:15,880 you know, and they remember those days. 1683 01:17:16,440 --> 01:17:19,600 And yeah, it got a little spicy. It went over the line at times. 1684 01:17:19,600 --> 01:17:21,400 But, you know, people have fond memories of that. 1685 01:17:21,400 --> 01:17:23,720 So they want to kick in. Muddy, do you get? 1686 01:17:23,960 --> 01:17:25,840 Do you get any of the people that are like the old school 1687 01:17:25,840 --> 01:17:28,400 liberals, the the guys like we're seeing the Matt Taibbi's, 1688 01:17:28,400 --> 01:17:31,360 the the Michael Shellenberger types that say I disagree with 1689 01:17:31,360 --> 01:17:34,120 everything you said, but I would defend your right to the death 1690 01:17:34,120 --> 01:17:36,080 to say it, that sort of thing, that that mindset. 1691 01:17:36,080 --> 01:17:39,560 Do you get any of those? Yeah, I believe as Glenn 1692 01:17:39,560 --> 01:17:42,800 Greenwald, I believe he spoke up about this case. 1693 01:17:42,920 --> 01:17:44,400 Some of them, there's a couple of them. 1694 01:17:44,400 --> 01:17:47,640 I'm not sure about the donors, if we had any of those donor 1695 01:17:47,640 --> 01:17:49,880 types. I don't think so, but I could be 1696 01:17:49,880 --> 01:17:51,720 wrong because you know, some people donate anonymously. 1697 01:17:51,840 --> 01:17:53,440 Of course, yeah. And I'm just curious if they've 1698 01:17:53,440 --> 01:17:56,320 actually expressed it, but but you are seeing a minimal amount 1699 01:17:56,320 --> 01:17:57,760 of these. Very. 1700 01:17:57,880 --> 01:18:00,880 Minimal, right? Very small, very minimal. 1701 01:18:00,880 --> 01:18:05,320 I mean, there are guys like this. 1702 01:18:05,320 --> 01:18:08,840 Well, a New York Times guy is election expert Rich Hassan, I 1703 01:18:08,840 --> 01:18:11,080 believe is his name, who has said that. 1704 01:18:11,920 --> 01:18:14,840 Well, maybe this should be a crime, but we don't have a 1705 01:18:14,840 --> 01:18:17,960 federal statue criminalizing this. 1706 01:18:18,080 --> 01:18:21,400 They're they're abusing the statue that exists. 1707 01:18:21,400 --> 01:18:24,320 I mean, look, it's one thing if you have a statue on the books 1708 01:18:25,000 --> 01:18:28,480 that says, look, you cannot spread disinformation or 1709 01:18:28,640 --> 01:18:31,160 whatever about an election within 30 days, which is 1710 01:18:31,160 --> 01:18:34,160 actually a law that Barack Obama tried to pass the Senate and 1711 01:18:34,160 --> 01:18:38,080 failed. Now, that might pass 1712 01:18:38,080 --> 01:18:39,960 constitutional muster. We don't even know. 1713 01:18:40,560 --> 01:18:42,240 Yeah, I don't know. We don't even know if it would 1714 01:18:42,520 --> 01:18:45,600 exactly. Now, so, so folks can understand 1715 01:18:45,600 --> 01:18:47,560 the way this plays out, because most people don't understand the 1716 01:18:47,560 --> 01:18:49,240 federal judiciary, they've never been exposed to it. 1717 01:18:49,240 --> 01:18:51,880 I'm, I'm guessing you have a much more nuanced take on it at 1718 01:18:51,880 --> 01:18:54,760 this point. But the, the original district 1719 01:18:54,760 --> 01:18:57,960 that they bring that they are alleging the facts of the crime. 1720 01:18:58,000 --> 01:19:00,280 That's what you're arguing, the facts which the government was. 1721 01:19:00,400 --> 01:19:02,240 Was it a jury trial or was it a bench trial? 1722 01:19:02,520 --> 01:19:04,960 A jury trial. OK, So a jury theoretical 1723 01:19:05,040 --> 01:19:06,920 critically of your peers in a place that you don't live in a 1724 01:19:06,920 --> 01:19:09,120 place that you didn't commit their alleged crime. 1725 01:19:09,800 --> 01:19:12,120 I guess it's been convicted. So they they've they've decided 1726 01:19:12,120 --> 01:19:14,720 that you were guilty of that and then you get a chance to appeal 1727 01:19:14,720 --> 01:19:16,400 it. And in the appeal circuit, what 1728 01:19:16,400 --> 01:19:19,720 we argue is the law, whether the law was appropriately applied 1729 01:19:19,960 --> 01:19:23,200 and it's a procedural argument, whether the the government met 1730 01:19:23,200 --> 01:19:26,240 its burden, followed process properly, etcetera, etcetera. 1731 01:19:26,480 --> 01:19:28,520 That's where you're at right now, Ryan. 1732 01:19:29,240 --> 01:19:31,280 Ryan, do you have the ability to throw up a like a Google search 1733 01:19:31,280 --> 01:19:32,920 where we can just type in Doug's name? 1734 01:19:33,240 --> 01:19:35,160 I would point out we are actually arguing also 1735 01:19:35,320 --> 01:19:38,360 insufficient evidence. We are arguing insufficiency 1736 01:19:38,360 --> 01:19:40,160 evidence, OK. So you're even. 1737 01:19:40,200 --> 01:19:44,560 Able to the evidence was, like I said, these other people in this 1738 01:19:44,560 --> 01:19:47,680 DM group thought that it would trick people out of voting. 1739 01:19:48,360 --> 01:19:49,720 Well, that's fine, but they didn't. 1740 01:19:49,840 --> 01:19:52,240 They didn't indict any of those people. 1741 01:19:53,000 --> 01:19:55,400 OK, we're going to show the search 'cause I think it's just 1742 01:19:55,400 --> 01:19:56,760 so relevant. So let's, let's get a taste of 1743 01:19:56,760 --> 01:19:58,600 this, folks. This is what government 1744 01:19:58,600 --> 01:20:01,040 censorship, this is what people like actually Shellenberger and 1745 01:20:01,040 --> 01:20:03,560 Taibbi have kind of made the argument about when, when the 1746 01:20:03,560 --> 01:20:06,720 government owns the means of of this sort of censorship when it 1747 01:20:06,720 --> 01:20:09,560 comes to your search results, everything here, convicted, 1748 01:20:09,600 --> 01:20:11,720 convicted, 7 months, go ahead, keep going. 1749 01:20:11,720 --> 01:20:12,960 That's a sentencing. These are all coming. 1750 01:20:12,960 --> 01:20:16,680 Months over notice too, how the government always takes the very 1751 01:20:16,680 --> 01:20:20,760 top Yeah, they're going to get the 1st 2:00 and then it goes 1752 01:20:21,240 --> 01:20:24,280 woke. So as we run through these 1753 01:20:24,280 --> 01:20:26,920 so-called trusted names and news keep keep punching down through 1754 01:20:26,920 --> 01:20:28,600 there. What I don't see any of them is 1755 01:20:28,600 --> 01:20:31,160 that that you were successful on appeal and I had to dig a little 1756 01:20:31,160 --> 01:20:32,280 deeper. We actually pulled up the 1757 01:20:32,280 --> 01:20:34,640 article from post millennial. So Doug, I want to read from 1758 01:20:34,640 --> 01:20:38,800 that because it actually took me specifically typing in appeal 1759 01:20:39,080 --> 01:20:41,640 and I think the word success or something to that effect to be 1760 01:20:41,640 --> 01:20:45,880 able to get, you know, all these things are literally smear jobs 1761 01:20:45,880 --> 01:20:48,720 on you until we get down to breaking. 1762 01:20:49,320 --> 01:20:52,040 This is on December 4th. Federal appellate court sides 1763 01:20:52,040 --> 01:20:55,880 with Douglas Mackey in mean case drops prison sentence until 1764 01:20:55,880 --> 01:21:01,960 after the appeal and that was signed by a a judge who is on 1765 01:21:01,960 --> 01:21:05,240 the appeal circuit, but he's a he's a District Judge for the 1766 01:21:05,240 --> 01:21:07,520 District of Connecticut. How did how did that all happen? 1767 01:21:07,520 --> 01:21:09,320 How did that go that way? Yeah. 1768 01:21:09,320 --> 01:21:14,160 So we filed, we, we were denied bond, which was actually kind of 1769 01:21:14,160 --> 01:21:17,880 surprising and this kind of a case with a 7 month prison 1770 01:21:17,880 --> 01:21:20,640 sentence to be denied bond. We were denied bond at the 1771 01:21:20,640 --> 01:21:23,000 District Court level. It was also a little bit 1772 01:21:23,000 --> 01:21:24,720 surprising that the government opposed. 1773 01:21:25,160 --> 01:21:30,200 However, you know, they kind of have to do what's best for their 1774 01:21:30,400 --> 01:21:32,400 case, right? They don't want to admit that 1775 01:21:32,400 --> 01:21:34,520 these are debatable. Issues and and that you're not 1776 01:21:34,760 --> 01:21:37,040 like a massive danger running around in danger. 1777 01:21:37,040 --> 01:21:39,080 Well, they actually admitted, they admitted that I wasn't in 1778 01:21:39,080 --> 01:21:41,280 danger. They just said, wow, this isn't 1779 01:21:41,280 --> 01:21:43,840 debatable. You know this isn't a close 1780 01:21:43,840 --> 01:21:47,360 call, so did you. Spend time behind bars. 1781 01:21:47,880 --> 01:21:50,480 No, I didn't. So I was, you know, besides when 1782 01:21:50,480 --> 01:21:53,400 I went to the, you know, the, the, the courthouse, I was at a 1783 01:21:53,400 --> 01:21:56,640 holdings hall for two hours or whatever or an hour or whatever 1784 01:21:56,640 --> 01:22:00,080 it was. So I had AI had a report date 1785 01:22:00,360 --> 01:22:04,600 which was January the 18th. The District Court denied bond 1786 01:22:04,600 --> 01:22:07,400 pending appeal. That was a surprise on this kind 1787 01:22:07,400 --> 01:22:10,560 of a case. I mean, this is not a drug case. 1788 01:22:11,120 --> 01:22:14,240 This is not a murder case. You know, this is not a danger. 1789 01:22:14,400 --> 01:22:16,600 And they admitted that was not a danger, to be fair. 1790 01:22:16,880 --> 01:22:18,760 But they said this, this is not debatable. 1791 01:22:19,160 --> 01:22:24,440 So we did go to the appeals court and say and, and move to 1792 01:22:24,440 --> 01:22:27,680 stay the appeal, which basically just means that you don't have 1793 01:22:27,680 --> 01:22:34,520 to report to prison. You don't have to, you know, be 1794 01:22:34,520 --> 01:22:35,760 sentenced. You don't have to carry out the 1795 01:22:35,760 --> 01:22:39,800 sentence until after the District Court, the appeals 1796 01:22:39,800 --> 01:22:42,920 court decides. So we filed our brief, the 1797 01:22:42,920 --> 01:22:45,240 government opposed, and then we filed a response. 1798 01:22:45,240 --> 01:22:46,880 That's how it works. Do you think? 1799 01:22:46,880 --> 01:22:49,240 The government overplayed their hand by not giving you bond. 1800 01:22:49,240 --> 01:22:51,200 Do you think they actually kind of worked against their case in 1801 01:22:51,200 --> 01:22:53,680 that in that matter? Yeah, I believe so. 1802 01:22:53,680 --> 01:22:56,400 Because this, any kind of thing like this, you can, you know, 1803 01:22:56,960 --> 01:23:00,240 sort of get the ball rolling. Momentum. 1804 01:23:00,520 --> 01:23:03,440 You know, if they had just said, yeah, that's fine, you could be 1805 01:23:03,440 --> 01:23:05,680 a well, now they, you know, there's a little bit of 1806 01:23:05,680 --> 01:23:07,760 momentum. The judges are looking at this, 1807 01:23:08,360 --> 01:23:10,400 so it went through the appellate court. 1808 01:23:10,640 --> 01:23:13,120 It looks prejudice right before it goes to the to the appeals 1809 01:23:13,120 --> 01:23:14,920 court. So like it's already it's giving 1810 01:23:14,920 --> 01:23:16,400 some imminence to what needs to be done. 1811 01:23:16,800 --> 01:23:19,880 And I would also add that they did have to even admit certain 1812 01:23:19,880 --> 01:23:22,600 things at the oral argument. Interesting. 1813 01:23:23,320 --> 01:23:27,080 They had to admit that this was a novel prosecution. 1814 01:23:27,480 --> 01:23:32,080 They also had to admit that a venue, the doctrine of venue, it 1815 01:23:32,080 --> 01:23:34,360 does evolve. It's not so cut and dry. 1816 01:23:34,560 --> 01:23:38,240 For instance, we have the Internet, we have phones, you 1817 01:23:38,240 --> 01:23:41,840 know, so this is how the doctrine of venue evolves 1818 01:23:42,040 --> 01:23:45,040 because back of the day, you're not going to be placing a phone 1819 01:23:45,040 --> 01:23:49,120 call and then so you can be tried in multiple districts, 1820 01:23:49,120 --> 01:23:53,560 right? So, yeah, we, we argued that 1821 01:23:53,560 --> 01:23:57,680 this was debatable on the 1st Amendment on due process because 1822 01:23:58,560 --> 01:24:02,000 you can't be prosecuted for a crime if no reasonable person 1823 01:24:02,000 --> 01:24:03,600 would expect that this was a crime. 1824 01:24:04,640 --> 01:24:07,600 So obviously, you know, if I steal something from somebody, 1825 01:24:07,960 --> 01:24:10,760 even I might not know the exact federal statute, you know that 1826 01:24:10,800 --> 01:24:13,400 you're committing a crime when you're stealing something for 1827 01:24:13,400 --> 01:24:16,440 someone. This is not so cut and dry. 1828 01:24:16,440 --> 01:24:20,600 And we argue, and this is the doctrine of of, of notice, a 1829 01:24:20,600 --> 01:24:22,560 fair notice. You have to be on fair notice 1830 01:24:22,560 --> 01:24:26,280 that you're committing a crime. The 3rd and then the third issue 1831 01:24:27,360 --> 01:24:31,760 that we argued at the bond hearing was venue that they did 1832 01:24:31,760 --> 01:24:34,280 not. This is it. 1833 01:24:34,280 --> 01:24:36,720 Like I said, it's not so cut and dry, so black and white. 1834 01:24:36,720 --> 01:24:43,080 But typically these courts have to find substantial contact with 1835 01:24:43,080 --> 01:24:46,680 the District for a case to be upheld on venue. 1836 01:24:47,240 --> 01:24:49,720 And so we argue that no, there was no substantial contact. 1837 01:24:49,720 --> 01:24:52,800 They didn't prove the case for venue just because the tweet 1838 01:24:52,800 --> 01:24:56,800 goes over the wires, over the water or under the bridge. 1839 01:24:56,800 --> 01:25:02,080 And this? It sounds funny, but it's true. 1840 01:25:02,640 --> 01:25:05,080 I know, but it's just, it's, it's such a strange thing like, 1841 01:25:05,360 --> 01:25:07,080 and, and This is why I want people to listen to what that 1842 01:25:07,080 --> 01:25:08,640 is. It's like the things that the 1843 01:25:08,640 --> 01:25:11,240 minutiae that they're hanging their hat on in order to 1844 01:25:11,240 --> 01:25:14,240 establish even where this went down, where they even decided to 1845 01:25:14,240 --> 01:25:18,160 try the case is debatable, which is what you just shared. 1846 01:25:18,480 --> 01:25:21,440 Exactly. It's it's a shady movement and 1847 01:25:21,440 --> 01:25:24,360 why would they choose that when, as we said, Southern District is 1848 01:25:24,360 --> 01:25:26,240 actually very favorable to government prosecutions, 1849 01:25:26,240 --> 01:25:29,360 generally speaking. And and did those prosecutors 1850 01:25:29,360 --> 01:25:31,240 laugh it out? Did they go, hey, this is this 1851 01:25:31,240 --> 01:25:32,880 is a dog shit case. We're not going to do this. 1852 01:25:33,280 --> 01:25:35,760 I. That raises even more questions. 1853 01:25:35,920 --> 01:25:40,240 You, you can literally take a case that is, that is stronger 1854 01:25:40,240 --> 01:25:42,400 than this in front of a reasonable prosecutor and they 1855 01:25:42,400 --> 01:25:44,640 just go like, if this guy's not going to plea, then we're going 1856 01:25:44,640 --> 01:25:46,600 to drop, we're going to decline prosecution. 1857 01:25:46,960 --> 01:25:49,600 It's a waste of our time because it, it looks bad for them to 1858 01:25:49,600 --> 01:25:50,840 lose. They don't want to lose. 1859 01:25:51,480 --> 01:25:53,880 Yeah, exactly. This case they could not drop 1860 01:25:53,880 --> 01:25:55,720 because they invested a lot in it. 1861 01:25:56,400 --> 01:25:59,960 The DOJ, the higher ups, the new ones that Biden put in were 1862 01:25:59,960 --> 01:26:02,680 invested in it. The new US attorney was invested 1863 01:26:02,680 --> 01:26:04,720 in it. It's like they couldn't drop 1864 01:26:04,720 --> 01:26:06,880 this case. There was no misdemeanor that I 1865 01:26:06,880 --> 01:26:10,520 could have pled down to. You know, some people say I'll 1866 01:26:10,520 --> 01:26:13,840 plead to a misdemeanor just to make this go away, you know? 1867 01:26:14,080 --> 01:26:15,720 What if they'd offered you that? Any thoughts? 1868 01:26:16,160 --> 01:26:19,480 It's possible just because of the time and the expense, 1869 01:26:19,720 --> 01:26:22,760 because a misdemeanor is quite frankly, it's not a huge deal on 1870 01:26:22,760 --> 01:26:27,560 your record, you know, so it's possible I could have pled down 1871 01:26:27,560 --> 01:26:29,800 to a misdemeanor just to make the whole thing go away. 1872 01:26:30,200 --> 01:26:36,960 But there's no question in my mind to ever plead to a felony 1873 01:26:36,960 --> 01:26:38,880 that I didn't commit. I mean, that's ridiculous. 1874 01:26:39,360 --> 01:26:42,400 You might, a lot of people, unfortunately, maybe they're 1875 01:26:42,400 --> 01:26:45,880 charged with 10 felonies. And so they do plead to a felony 1876 01:26:45,880 --> 01:26:47,520 that they think that they didn't commit. 1877 01:26:47,720 --> 01:26:50,360 And a lot of people plead to a misdemeanor that they don't 1878 01:26:50,360 --> 01:26:52,760 think they committed because it's not a big deal, a 1879 01:26:52,760 --> 01:26:55,880 misdemeanor, especially when you're looking at the time and 1880 01:26:55,880 --> 01:26:59,840 the effort and the investment to win or to win an appeal and a 1881 01:26:59,840 --> 01:27:04,320 misdemeanor, etcetera. So, so yeah, yeah. 1882 01:27:06,800 --> 01:27:08,280 Where were we at? So yeah, we. 1883 01:27:08,480 --> 01:27:10,360 Here's the thing. Yeah, and we talk about this all 1884 01:27:10,360 --> 01:27:12,320 the time, folks, but the the amount of money and the way the 1885 01:27:12,320 --> 01:27:14,080 system is set up is that the government has unlimited 1886 01:27:14,080 --> 01:27:15,760 resources to go through prosecution. 1887 01:27:15,760 --> 01:27:17,840 And you have a finite amount. And what they're trying to do is 1888 01:27:17,840 --> 01:27:21,000 put you a decision for all those chips and it's either all in or 1889 01:27:21,000 --> 01:27:22,640 not. Because that's what happens if 1890 01:27:22,640 --> 01:27:23,800 you decide to go against the government. 1891 01:27:23,800 --> 01:27:25,520 That's that's why so few people challenge it. 1892 01:27:25,520 --> 01:27:27,760 That's why there is such a high plea out rate. 1893 01:27:28,240 --> 01:27:30,560 So I don't want people to necessarily walk away with the 1894 01:27:30,560 --> 01:27:32,160 idea. I, I wouldn't say that having a 1895 01:27:32,160 --> 01:27:33,520 misdemeanor on your record is no big deal. 1896 01:27:33,520 --> 01:27:36,120 It just is not going to materially affect you and it may 1897 01:27:36,120 --> 01:27:38,440 save you $1,000,000 in legal defense. 1898 01:27:38,440 --> 01:27:40,680 That's right, you can save you millions of dollars. 1899 01:27:40,960 --> 01:27:43,440 And not everybody can raise that and not everybody's case is 1900 01:27:43,440 --> 01:27:45,720 going to get enough attention. I think that's the only 1901 01:27:45,720 --> 01:27:47,240 fortunate thing is they picked a guy. 1902 01:27:47,680 --> 01:27:50,000 It was such an egregious case and they went after you. 1903 01:27:50,000 --> 01:27:52,400 I mean, it really is egregious. Yeah, yeah. 1904 01:27:52,400 --> 01:27:56,160 And I would point out too that, you know, in the appellate 1905 01:27:56,160 --> 01:27:59,600 court. Oh, I forgot. 1906 01:27:59,600 --> 01:28:01,800 I completely lost my train of thought there. 1907 01:28:01,800 --> 01:28:04,080 Sorry, no. Big deal. 1908 01:28:04,200 --> 01:28:06,080 We were talking facts of the case of what you're arguing. 1909 01:28:06,080 --> 01:28:08,040 It's jurisdictional. It's going to be procedural. 1910 01:28:08,240 --> 01:28:10,280 It's going to be the the arguments of law, which are to 1911 01:28:10,280 --> 01:28:12,520 say whether or not the law was actually appropriately applied. 1912 01:28:12,520 --> 01:28:13,600 I think those are all interesting. 1913 01:28:14,680 --> 01:28:16,840 What are your what are your attorneys feeling that they were 1914 01:28:16,840 --> 01:28:19,760 granted this particular stay on your on your sentence? 1915 01:28:19,760 --> 01:28:23,080 That's what I was gonna say. So this, this kind of appeal is 1916 01:28:23,080 --> 01:28:27,280 not granted often interesting. A bond appeal, usually it's like 1917 01:28:27,280 --> 01:28:30,360 one line denied. You know the motion has been 1918 01:28:30,360 --> 01:28:32,640 denied. If if memory serves when I was 1919 01:28:32,640 --> 01:28:35,360 reading about this, it's stated something to the effect of based 1920 01:28:35,360 --> 01:28:38,600 on the the probability of success in your appeal is what 1921 01:28:38,600 --> 01:28:40,080 they granted it on. Is that accurate? 1922 01:28:40,440 --> 01:28:42,760 So they didn't not they did not release an opinion. 1923 01:28:43,080 --> 01:28:45,880 OK, just released an order. So they did not release an 1924 01:28:45,880 --> 01:28:48,560 opinion. There's several factors that can 1925 01:28:49,440 --> 01:28:54,880 come into play substantial issue raised debatable or novel. 1926 01:28:55,640 --> 01:28:59,000 And this is completely novel to argue that it is. 1927 01:28:59,000 --> 01:29:01,520 And it's kind of. Yeah, we we define that term for 1928 01:29:01,520 --> 01:29:03,400 people in the case of a a lawsuit like this. 1929 01:29:04,040 --> 01:29:06,120 Yeah, absolutely. So if they're, if they're 1930 01:29:06,480 --> 01:29:12,720 prosecuting someone on a novel set of facts, then then you are 1931 01:29:13,240 --> 01:29:18,560 an novel set of facts where you know, you're, if you win the 1932 01:29:18,560 --> 01:29:21,440 appeal, then it's then the conviction will be overturned. 1933 01:29:22,000 --> 01:29:24,480 Then you can be granted bond on appeal. 1934 01:29:25,240 --> 01:29:27,840 And the idea that it's a novel prosecution means they are 1935 01:29:27,840 --> 01:29:30,680 basically trying out something that has not been done before. 1936 01:29:30,680 --> 01:29:34,040 They are using either in a law in a new way or they're using a 1937 01:29:34,040 --> 01:29:37,560 fact pattern in a new way to try to establish connection. 1938 01:29:38,000 --> 01:29:40,680 Hence what they've done with this sort of obstruction they 1939 01:29:40,720 --> 01:29:43,000 did with the J Sixer as which was to say it was always used 1940 01:29:43,000 --> 01:29:44,920 for procedural. It was an Enron law, 1941 01:29:45,440 --> 01:29:47,240 Sarbanes-Oxley. It was if people decide to 1942 01:29:47,240 --> 01:29:50,120 destroy documents as they were embezzling investors out of 1943 01:29:50,200 --> 01:29:53,280 billions of dollars, Yeah. Oh, also it could be if you were 1944 01:29:53,280 --> 01:29:55,320 trying to stop a vote and people were like, huh? 1945 01:29:55,680 --> 01:29:57,360 But they were successful in their novel prosecution. 1946 01:29:57,360 --> 01:29:59,400 They use it over and over again so they could open up new 1947 01:29:59,400 --> 01:30:02,080 precedent by with your case is essentially you. 1948 01:30:02,160 --> 01:30:04,800 Exactly, exactly. I mean this that's the dangerous 1949 01:30:04,800 --> 01:30:06,440 part. If we going to say that this 1950 01:30:06,440 --> 01:30:10,600 statute covers the word injure in the statute, covers 1951 01:30:10,920 --> 01:30:15,080 deception, because when Congress passed the KKK Act, which is 1952 01:30:15,080 --> 01:30:18,800 what this is, they also passed other act, you know, other 1953 01:30:19,320 --> 01:30:23,000 statues, for instance, 1 was fraud, defrauding the United 1954 01:30:23,000 --> 01:30:25,000 States government. They did not use the word 1955 01:30:25,040 --> 01:30:26,440 injure. They used the word fraud, 1956 01:30:26,440 --> 01:30:30,440 defraud, deceive. You cannot defraud the US 1957 01:30:30,480 --> 01:30:33,640 government, DC, the US government, you know, And so 1958 01:30:33,680 --> 01:30:36,800 they did not use this, this, this verb in the statute. 1959 01:30:36,800 --> 01:30:40,360 So if they're going to say that a conspiracy to injure someone's 1960 01:30:40,360 --> 01:30:43,320 rights involves saying something that's not true. 1961 01:30:43,960 --> 01:30:46,880 I mean, that opens up a massive can of worms. 1962 01:30:47,560 --> 01:30:49,120 That opens up a huge can of worms. 1963 01:30:50,040 --> 01:30:53,040 I mean, you can only imagine and they're the the other. 1964 01:30:53,560 --> 01:30:56,040 The Supreme Court has already has already said too, that they 1965 01:30:56,040 --> 01:31:01,400 can't artificially limit a statue not based on the text of 1966 01:31:01,400 --> 01:31:03,200 the statute. So, for instance, they the 1967 01:31:03,200 --> 01:31:07,840 government wants to say, well, this is just because it was, you 1968 01:31:07,840 --> 01:31:11,280 know, deception about the time manner in place of an election. 1969 01:31:11,280 --> 01:31:14,120 So it's saying that there's an exception to the First Amendment 1970 01:31:14,800 --> 01:31:17,720 for deception about the time manner in place of an election. 1971 01:31:17,720 --> 01:31:19,640 That is opening up a huge can of worms. 1972 01:31:20,320 --> 01:31:22,800 And I would mention, since you're in the FBI, you would 1973 01:31:22,800 --> 01:31:25,280 know this or you would be familiar with this. 1974 01:31:26,000 --> 01:31:30,280 In the 2020 election, there's a guy a lot of people are familiar 1975 01:31:30,280 --> 01:31:31,960 with by the name of Elvis Chan of. 1976 01:31:32,120 --> 01:31:35,040 Course. In the San Francisco office. 1977 01:31:35,040 --> 01:31:36,680 Big winner. We're big fans of Elvis Chan. 1978 01:31:37,000 --> 01:31:42,000 Big fans. So Matt Taibbi published a 1979 01:31:42,000 --> 01:31:46,240 Twitter Files report on Elvis Chan and the There were people 1980 01:31:46,240 --> 01:31:49,080 on Twitter during 2020 making election jokes. 1981 01:31:49,760 --> 01:31:52,280 Some of them were completely fantastical and absurd. 1982 01:31:52,280 --> 01:31:56,920 Like someone said, I'm sitting in the ballot, you know, the the 1983 01:31:57,120 --> 01:31:59,800 the elections office, and I'm ripping up the vote of everybody 1984 01:31:59,800 --> 01:32:03,160 who didn't wear a mask. You know, these are obviously 1985 01:32:03,160 --> 01:32:05,600 jokes. And he's sending emails to 1986 01:32:05,600 --> 01:32:08,880 Twitter saying, you know, please preserve this. 1987 01:32:08,880 --> 01:32:11,160 We're going to serve process. Yes. 1988 01:32:12,280 --> 01:32:14,760 You know, no sense of humor. Yeah, exactly. 1989 01:32:14,760 --> 01:32:17,320 So. Well, let's let's even get more 1990 01:32:17,320 --> 01:32:19,800 specific, because one of our favorite people at the Kyle 1991 01:32:19,800 --> 01:32:23,240 Seraphin show is Sheila Jackson Lee, the congresswoman from 1992 01:32:23,360 --> 01:32:27,840 Texas, from Houston. And she just ran for mayor and 1993 01:32:27,840 --> 01:32:31,600 she just went on multiple television programs, including 1994 01:32:31,600 --> 01:32:34,960 National, stating that the election was in fact a day that 1995 01:32:34,960 --> 01:32:38,080 it wasn't on and encouraging her supporters to go vote for her on 1996 01:32:38,080 --> 01:32:39,120 a day when they couldn't vote for her. 1997 01:32:39,520 --> 01:32:41,920 So now that theoretically would be under the jurisdiction of 1998 01:32:41,920 --> 01:32:43,560 something like this. And I assume there'd be some 1999 01:32:43,560 --> 01:32:46,640 retroactive prosecution, even though it actually she she 2000 01:32:46,960 --> 01:32:48,960 handily lost that election, Right. 2001 01:32:49,080 --> 01:32:51,520 Wouldn't that be interesting to to be able to open up that can 2002 01:32:51,520 --> 01:32:54,000 of worms where an ambitious Texas based prosecutor goes? 2003 01:32:54,120 --> 01:32:55,080 Yeah, you know what? Screw it. 2004 01:32:55,080 --> 01:32:57,440 I'm going to go after. I'm going to go after Jackson 2005 01:32:57,440 --> 01:32:58,560 Lee. Yeah. 2006 01:32:58,560 --> 01:33:01,720 And I'm going to be bipartisan here and say that even Sheila 2007 01:33:01,720 --> 01:33:03,720 Jackson leads, she has a right to privacy. 2008 01:33:03,720 --> 01:33:07,120 I mean, I don't think that she should be subpoenaed all of her 2009 01:33:07,320 --> 01:33:10,080 financial records, all of her text messages, all of her 2010 01:33:10,080 --> 01:33:13,360 emails, because she got the day of election wrong. 2011 01:33:13,360 --> 01:33:16,000 They're not going to dig through her entire life to see if she 2012 01:33:16,000 --> 01:33:20,080 intended to get it wrong to deceive people or not. 2013 01:33:20,080 --> 01:33:21,480 I mean, and I don't think they should. 2014 01:33:22,440 --> 01:33:24,280 Noel, I agree with you. There's no reason why any of 2015 01:33:24,280 --> 01:33:26,000 that should be done. And that's sort of what the 2016 01:33:26,000 --> 01:33:27,040 egregious nature of your case is. 2017 01:33:27,040 --> 01:33:29,160 That's why I've been following it since it it popped up. 2018 01:33:29,440 --> 01:33:30,960 I didn't. It makes sense to me that they 2019 01:33:30,960 --> 01:33:34,080 were obviously investigating you beforehand, but the the nature 2020 01:33:34,080 --> 01:33:35,960 of the fact that it took the Biden administration to come in 2021 01:33:35,960 --> 01:33:37,720 before they actually brought these charges for you, which 2022 01:33:37,720 --> 01:33:40,120 happened to what, March of this of 21? 2023 01:33:40,560 --> 01:33:43,560 No 7 days, seven days after. Oh wow, it was that fast. 2024 01:33:43,560 --> 01:33:45,120 He got the. Warrant two days after his 2025 01:33:45,120 --> 01:33:47,320 inauguration. That is so incredible. 2026 01:33:47,320 --> 01:33:49,960 Did they serve, did they serve it as a as a search warrant, as 2027 01:33:49,960 --> 01:33:52,040 an arrest warrant, or did they serve it as a complaint with an 2028 01:33:52,040 --> 01:33:53,520 arrest warrant? You know, they served it as a 2029 01:33:53,520 --> 01:33:56,080 complaint with an arrest. Warrant So you were probably one 2030 01:33:56,080 --> 01:33:57,800 of the first guys that experienced this. 2031 01:33:57,800 --> 01:34:00,480 Do you know the difference between getting complainted and 2032 01:34:00,520 --> 01:34:02,560 and being indicted with a a grand jury? 2033 01:34:02,600 --> 01:34:03,400 Are you familiar? With that you. 2034 01:34:03,880 --> 01:34:05,880 Want to talk about it? Yeah. 2035 01:34:05,880 --> 01:34:10,680 So with a criminal complaint is sort of I, I could be wrong, but 2036 01:34:10,680 --> 01:34:15,560 it's to say, you know, sometimes what it's a matter of urgency or 2037 01:34:15,560 --> 01:34:18,480 what have you, the FBI agent will file a criminal complaint 2038 01:34:19,120 --> 01:34:22,440 that says we believe this, this this person did all this, so we 2039 01:34:22,440 --> 01:34:24,320 have a right to arrest him. So you arrest him. 2040 01:34:24,800 --> 01:34:27,120 Now, as a defendant, you can move for a grand jury 2041 01:34:27,120 --> 01:34:29,320 indictment. They always get an indictment 2042 01:34:29,320 --> 01:34:31,040 after the fact. There's the I don't know anybody 2043 01:34:31,040 --> 01:34:31,560 that doesn't. Do it. 2044 01:34:31,560 --> 01:34:33,920 That's what we did and they got an indictment after the fact and 2045 01:34:33,920 --> 01:34:37,320 it was a bare bones indictment. Yeah, just just simple. 2046 01:34:37,320 --> 01:34:40,840 Simple, Mr. Mackey did injure a breast, threaten and intimidate 2047 01:34:40,840 --> 01:34:43,600 voters in, you know, the exercise of blah blah. 2048 01:34:43,600 --> 01:34:45,480 Blah, blah, blah. So the affidavit or the the 2049 01:34:45,520 --> 01:34:47,040 facts in support of it was much shorter. 2050 01:34:47,240 --> 01:34:50,200 So what's interesting in your case, and I think this actually 2051 01:34:50,200 --> 01:34:53,000 plays out as why it is such a bigger issue broadly for 2052 01:34:53,000 --> 01:34:55,160 conservatives. You were one of the first people 2053 01:34:55,160 --> 01:34:58,440 that I'm aware of that were arrested by complaint. 2054 01:34:58,720 --> 01:35:02,000 And that has become the standard for going after conservatives 2055 01:35:02,000 --> 01:35:04,480 specifically, but mostly J Sixers in this case. 2056 01:35:04,960 --> 01:35:08,000 They went after all of them. When I went through the FBI 2057 01:35:08,000 --> 01:35:11,960 Academy in 2016, the argument was made that you will probably 2058 01:35:11,960 --> 01:35:16,400 never, you will rarely, if ever serve a criminal complaint. 2059 01:35:16,920 --> 01:35:20,640 And arrest somebody based on exigent circumstances because 2060 01:35:20,640 --> 01:35:24,120 the FBI doesn't do that. They do planned operations. 2061 01:35:24,120 --> 01:35:26,800 And it is by exception only that you would go do the complaint. 2062 01:35:27,000 --> 01:35:29,240 And the reason is, is because if you're doing a long term federal 2063 01:35:29,240 --> 01:35:33,000 investigation and you started in 2018, what's the hurry? 2064 01:35:33,000 --> 01:35:34,840 Where's the fire would be the argument. 2065 01:35:34,840 --> 01:35:36,960 Why would you need a complaint when you can wait to go to 2066 01:35:36,960 --> 01:35:38,600 Richard Public? It's been years. 2067 01:35:38,800 --> 01:35:40,560 So they can easily do that. And they do the same thing on 2068 01:35:40,560 --> 01:35:42,720 the J6 stuff where they are getting complaints and the 2069 01:35:42,720 --> 01:35:44,640 reason why they'll do it. And I'll just tip you in on 2070 01:35:44,640 --> 01:35:47,040 this, if you guys, you you're probably aware of this, but just 2071 01:35:47,160 --> 01:35:48,320 somewhat for the audience benefit. 2072 01:35:48,800 --> 01:35:52,680 The reason you do a complaint and not go and do a grand jury 2073 01:35:52,680 --> 01:35:55,880 indictment, which may come with an arrest warrant, is because 2074 01:35:56,040 --> 01:35:58,120 you can also have the judge weigh in. 2075 01:35:58,120 --> 01:35:59,080 You say, hey, I'd like an arrest warrant. 2076 01:35:59,080 --> 01:36:00,640 I'm going to go get this guy and they could go, why don't you 2077 01:36:00,640 --> 01:36:03,240 just issue a summons? You can just have them 2078 01:36:03,240 --> 01:36:06,600 surrender, but the arrest warrant is automatic with the 2079 01:36:06,600 --> 01:36:08,600 complaint because the nature of the complaint is that it 2080 01:36:08,600 --> 01:36:10,480 basically shows that there's exigent circumstances. 2081 01:36:10,760 --> 01:36:13,360 The example is I wrote one criminal complaint. 2082 01:36:13,640 --> 01:36:15,360 My buddy Steve Friend did many because he worked Indian 2083 01:36:15,360 --> 01:36:17,280 Country. He was actually like a cop 2084 01:36:17,480 --> 01:36:20,080 working in a detective role. And you regularly had exigent 2085 01:36:20,080 --> 01:36:21,720 circumstances. People that just beat the hell 2086 01:36:21,720 --> 01:36:23,080 out of their wife. You find out who they are, you 2087 01:36:23,080 --> 01:36:24,440 go grab them right away so they don't do it again. 2088 01:36:24,480 --> 01:36:27,120 That's good. But in my case, the only time I 2089 01:36:27,120 --> 01:36:29,920 arrested somebody under exigent circumstances was I had a guy 2090 01:36:29,920 --> 01:36:32,720 who was in jail. He was in county and he was 2091 01:36:32,720 --> 01:36:34,640 calling over and over again. When you talk about Interstate 2092 01:36:34,640 --> 01:36:35,760 threats, we touched on that earlier. 2093 01:36:35,920 --> 01:36:38,200 He was calling and leaving threats for federal judges and 2094 01:36:38,200 --> 01:36:40,040 state judges saying I have plans to kill them. 2095 01:36:41,160 --> 01:36:43,000 He wanted to go back to jail. For what it's worth, he was 2096 01:36:43,000 --> 01:36:44,240 meant right. Clearly. 2097 01:36:44,440 --> 01:36:46,320 But he called up and and it was actually, we called him the 2098 01:36:46,320 --> 01:36:48,720 legend. I'm, I may even have a copy of 2099 01:36:48,720 --> 01:36:50,400 this guy's voicemail because it was one of my favorite 2100 01:36:50,400 --> 01:36:51,600 voicemails. I would just play it on the loud 2101 01:36:51,600 --> 01:36:55,640 speakers at the office sometimes because he would go, hello, this 2102 01:36:55,640 --> 01:36:56,840 is Ramon. I can't remember his last name. 2103 01:36:56,840 --> 01:36:58,640 It's not Sanchez, but like in my head, that's what he's like. 2104 01:36:58,640 --> 01:37:01,480 Hello, This is Ramon Sanchez. Yes, it is. 2105 01:37:01,520 --> 01:37:04,520 I I've got plans to kill federal judges, you know? 2106 01:37:05,160 --> 01:37:06,280 And then he would name the judges. 2107 01:37:06,360 --> 01:37:08,600 He would name them off. And he was like, he was like, 2108 01:37:08,600 --> 01:37:10,600 call the feds. Call the fucking feds. 2109 01:37:10,600 --> 01:37:11,520 That's what he said in his thing. 2110 01:37:11,600 --> 01:37:13,040 So I typed it up in my complaint. 2111 01:37:13,040 --> 01:37:14,520 Call the feds. Call the effing feds. 2112 01:37:14,680 --> 01:37:16,880 You know, I typed it all up and I played it out for the judge. 2113 01:37:17,040 --> 01:37:19,120 And the judge is like, OK, yeah, this guy's got to go back to 2114 01:37:19,120 --> 01:37:20,840 jail. So we arrested him that day. 2115 01:37:21,360 --> 01:37:22,960 He got out of jail. We were trying to keep him in 2116 01:37:22,960 --> 01:37:24,120 county. He got released. 2117 01:37:24,640 --> 01:37:27,000 He didn't want to be released, I'm sure, because he was a 2118 01:37:27,000 --> 01:37:28,920 street guy. So we went and we arrested him. 2119 01:37:28,920 --> 01:37:31,000 We put him in a hold again. He went right back to county, 2120 01:37:31,000 --> 01:37:32,600 but he was in the federal side of it holding. 2121 01:37:32,920 --> 01:37:35,920 And then he got moved for psych evaluation. 2122 01:37:35,920 --> 01:37:37,240 He went up to Colorado and some other stuff. 2123 01:37:37,280 --> 01:37:38,520 But that's the way I used a complaint. 2124 01:37:38,520 --> 01:37:40,600 That's the only time I wrote a complaint in 6 plus years of 2125 01:37:40,600 --> 01:37:42,680 being an FBI agent because you just don't do it. 2126 01:37:43,040 --> 01:37:43,440 Why would? You. 2127 01:37:43,440 --> 01:37:45,520 Yeah, I didn't know that because they easily could have just the 2128 01:37:45,520 --> 01:37:47,440 judge was like, yeah, just go to a summit. 2129 01:37:47,880 --> 01:37:50,400 I didn't know that. They clearly want the headline 2130 01:37:51,120 --> 01:37:52,760 and they wanted the shock value of it. 2131 01:37:53,040 --> 01:37:54,480 That's right. They wanted this to go on. 2132 01:37:54,480 --> 01:37:57,120 I mean, that night he said about, oh, baguette traitor 2133 01:37:57,120 --> 01:38:00,440 Trump troll arrested, you know, on the Rachel Baddow show that 2134 01:38:00,440 --> 01:38:02,320 night, right? I mean, that's clearly what was 2135 01:38:02,320 --> 01:38:04,440 going on here. There's no reason not to get in 2136 01:38:04,440 --> 01:38:07,200 a diamond. Or you could say that the, the, 2137 01:38:08,400 --> 01:38:11,960 I don't know, the higher ups are saying, you know, go bring me 2138 01:38:11,960 --> 01:38:14,200 the head of a MAGA extremist or whatever. 2139 01:38:14,640 --> 01:38:17,120 I love how that sounds, by the way, but that sounds exactly 2140 01:38:17,120 --> 01:38:19,720 like what our guy Nick Searcy, who's a great actor that was in 2141 01:38:19,720 --> 01:38:21,120 Police State. I don't know if you went and saw 2142 01:38:21,120 --> 01:38:22,680 it, but it's worth your time. And see it. 2143 01:38:22,680 --> 01:38:25,000 Yet I need to see it. Yeah, let me know. 2144 01:38:25,000 --> 01:38:28,040 We'll send you a copy. I'll buy you a copy and send it 2145 01:38:28,040 --> 01:38:31,000 to you. It he says in there. 2146 01:38:31,000 --> 01:38:33,160 He says, you know, we want the subject on full display. 2147 01:38:33,160 --> 01:38:34,640 We want, you know, the whole song and dance. 2148 01:38:34,640 --> 01:38:36,360 And we helped write some of these lines. 2149 01:38:36,360 --> 01:38:38,800 They kind of came up with like, hey, we want to show that 2150 01:38:38,800 --> 01:38:42,120 they're making a display. But they did, they did it with 2151 01:38:42,120 --> 01:38:47,680 they did it Roger Stone and they did it with you and they did it 2152 01:38:47,680 --> 01:38:49,560 with you as the beginning of the Biden administration. 2153 01:38:49,560 --> 01:38:51,880 I was not familiar with the concept that they would go and 2154 01:38:51,880 --> 01:38:54,000 do complaints and I didn't realize they did it as early as 2155 01:38:54,000 --> 01:38:56,640 seven days and they got it two days after January 6th. 2156 01:38:57,040 --> 01:38:59,240 But that must have been the marching order. 2157 01:38:59,240 --> 01:39:01,080 We can we can say this. Let me let me say it very 2158 01:39:01,080 --> 01:39:04,160 specifically based on my training and experience and time 2159 01:39:04,160 --> 01:39:06,080 as an FBI agent, I believe that that is the case. 2160 01:39:06,160 --> 01:39:07,840 That's how I would swear to that sort of statement. 2161 01:39:08,480 --> 01:39:12,560 It's pretty clear that they've broken protocol for a reason, 2162 01:39:12,680 --> 01:39:13,840 and the process is the punishment. 2163 01:39:13,840 --> 01:39:14,920 That's why they went. What do you like that? 2164 01:39:15,160 --> 01:39:16,640 How crazy. Exactly. 2165 01:39:17,760 --> 01:39:19,240 Man, so crazy. All right, what are your next 2166 01:39:19,240 --> 01:39:20,560 steps? What are you looking forward to? 2167 01:39:20,560 --> 01:39:23,400 What does the new year look like for you as we as we stare down 2168 01:39:23,400 --> 01:39:25,720 the the next election cycle? Are you are you trolling 2169 01:39:25,720 --> 01:39:27,040 anybody? Are you online? 2170 01:39:27,640 --> 01:39:31,240 So I'm not trolling anybody, you know, I'm online, I, you know, 2171 01:39:31,240 --> 01:39:34,360 I'm promoting my 'cause I'm promoting my case. 2172 01:39:34,360 --> 01:39:38,200 The next steps for me, you know, fundraising, everybody's got to 2173 01:39:38,200 --> 01:39:42,320 go to memedefensefund.com and donate to this case. 2174 01:39:42,320 --> 01:39:44,400 We really need money to fund this appeal. 2175 01:39:45,280 --> 01:39:48,360 Just the top notch, I mean the most excellent legal team you 2176 01:39:48,360 --> 01:39:51,320 can imagine. I'm feeling extremely fortunate, 2177 01:39:51,320 --> 01:39:54,040 but these, you know, these guys need to get paid. 2178 01:39:54,040 --> 01:39:56,440 So please help me at memedefensefund.com. 2179 01:39:57,240 --> 01:40:00,480 There are other ways to donate. If you go to my website 2180 01:40:00,480 --> 01:40:06,120 douglasmackey.com with two s s then you'll see crypto. 2181 01:40:06,720 --> 01:40:09,840 You can send cash, you can go to gifts and go. 2182 01:40:10,000 --> 01:40:12,080 There's all kinds of different options to donate. 2183 01:40:12,080 --> 01:40:16,000 So really trying to raise money, spend some time with my family 2184 01:40:17,000 --> 01:40:19,360 this Christmas. Just had my first son. 2185 01:40:20,040 --> 01:40:23,240 Awesome. So very happy about that spend 2186 01:40:23,240 --> 01:40:27,400 some time with family Christmas and celebrate the, the, the 2187 01:40:27,400 --> 01:40:30,960 season and, and but we we're focused on winning this case. 2188 01:40:31,880 --> 01:40:38,080 Our brief is due January the 5th and so oral arguments on this 2189 01:40:38,080 --> 01:40:40,800 case should be sometime in possibly March. 2190 01:40:42,000 --> 01:40:46,880 So this is this appeal is extradite expedited, which I'm 2191 01:40:46,880 --> 01:40:48,840 grateful for. I'm grateful for the judges of 2192 01:40:48,840 --> 01:40:51,640 the district, the appeals court, they're exploited the case. 2193 01:40:51,640 --> 01:40:52,920 So we should have an answer quickly. 2194 01:40:53,600 --> 01:40:56,240 Well, and the upside is I think we've pointed this out is just 2195 01:40:56,240 --> 01:40:59,120 like the implications for speech in this country are so intense. 2196 01:40:59,400 --> 01:41:02,240 There's really a few things in the 1st Amendment that are kind 2197 01:41:02,240 --> 01:41:04,760 of sacrosanct. And your ability to like, engage 2198 01:41:04,760 --> 01:41:06,200 in political speech should be pretty. 2199 01:41:06,800 --> 01:41:08,360 Yeah, pretty, pretty far reaching, I would think. 2200 01:41:08,360 --> 01:41:10,240 So this should actually be something that left us. 2201 01:41:10,480 --> 01:41:13,120 Not left us maybe, but liberals and and conservatives can 2202 01:41:13,120 --> 01:41:16,040 actually agree on like we don't, you don't have to like what what 2203 01:41:16,040 --> 01:41:18,560 Doug said exactly. And Doug may not even like what 2204 01:41:18,560 --> 01:41:20,800 he said a couple years ago. Yeah, that's right. 2205 01:41:21,320 --> 01:41:23,320 But but you still should have the ability to do that without 2206 01:41:23,320 --> 01:41:25,440 facing jail time. And so this is a pretty far 2207 01:41:25,440 --> 01:41:27,760 reaching place, which is why I was glad to have you on and 2208 01:41:27,760 --> 01:41:29,240 talking about it. We're we're throwing. 2209 01:41:29,240 --> 01:41:31,640 This case is not about me. You know, this case is about 2210 01:41:31,640 --> 01:41:35,000 abuse of a statue and the weaponization of a statue. 2211 01:41:35,080 --> 01:41:38,760 And, you know, by donating to this appeal, they're charging 2212 01:41:38,920 --> 01:41:40,200 all kinds of people with the statue. 2213 01:41:40,200 --> 01:41:41,560 Now. They even charge President Trump 2214 01:41:42,040 --> 01:41:45,320 with breaking the statue. So, yeah, this case is not about 2215 01:41:45,320 --> 01:41:47,440 me. This case is about, you know, 2216 01:41:47,440 --> 01:41:50,680 setting a precedent where they can't abuse this this law. 2217 01:41:51,360 --> 01:41:53,360 Yeah, the idea that the conspiracy against rights folks, 2218 01:41:53,360 --> 01:41:55,240 if you didn't see that was some of the that was some of the 2219 01:41:55,240 --> 01:41:56,560 pieces in the indictment of Trump. 2220 01:41:56,920 --> 01:41:59,080 So also kind of wild you noticed they didn't go get a criminal 2221 01:41:59,080 --> 01:42:02,280 complaint for him. Exactly. 2222 01:42:02,400 --> 01:42:03,960 Just saying, not saying they wouldn't have tried if they 2223 01:42:03,960 --> 01:42:04,960 thought they could have got away with it. 2224 01:42:04,960 --> 01:42:06,960 I just don't think it would fly. Yeah. 2225 01:42:06,960 --> 01:42:08,960 See, I didn't know what you said about the criminal complaint 2226 01:42:08,960 --> 01:42:10,400 getting the automatic arrest warrant. 2227 01:42:10,440 --> 01:42:12,040 Does that change? Does that change change your 2228 01:42:12,040 --> 01:42:14,640 thoughts? Absolutely, Absolutely. 2229 01:42:14,840 --> 01:42:16,920 Yeah, make sure, make sure your legal team is aware of that. 2230 01:42:16,920 --> 01:42:19,080 If that's not they, they probably know it, but it it may 2231 01:42:19,080 --> 01:42:21,480 not. It may not sit as as front and 2232 01:42:21,480 --> 01:42:23,800 center as it does to those who are in the public the way that. 2233 01:42:23,800 --> 01:42:26,080 We Yeah, well, we brought it up. You know, it's crazy. 2234 01:42:26,080 --> 01:42:28,920 We almost, I don't know if we almost won this case, but we 2235 01:42:28,920 --> 01:42:32,680 almost hugged the jury. They deadlocked two or three 2236 01:42:32,680 --> 01:42:34,840 times. The judge had to read an Allen 2237 01:42:34,840 --> 01:42:38,120 charge, which if anyone's not familiar, they say, look, you 2238 01:42:38,120 --> 01:42:41,120 know, everybody spent a lot of time and money on this case. 2239 01:42:41,840 --> 01:42:45,160 You shouldn't change your opinion unless you know, you 2240 01:42:45,160 --> 01:42:47,160 shouldn't necessarily change your opinion unless you know 2241 01:42:47,160 --> 01:42:49,960 your conscience Guides to do, however, go back and look at the 2242 01:42:50,160 --> 01:42:52,400 the evidence one more time and try to come to a verdict. 2243 01:42:53,080 --> 01:42:55,680 They had to do an Allen charge. They came back with a verdict on 2244 01:42:55,680 --> 01:42:59,360 Friday afternoon. I mean, we interviewed some of 2245 01:42:59,360 --> 01:43:01,680 the jurors when they when the, when the government, you know, 2246 01:43:01,680 --> 01:43:05,080 when we went over the facts of the case, the jurors really 2247 01:43:05,080 --> 01:43:07,880 didn't like it. A lot of the stuff the the whole 2248 01:43:07,920 --> 01:43:11,960 show with the arrest warrant, 8 to 10 agents, blah, blah, blah. 2249 01:43:11,960 --> 01:43:16,160 I mean, they didn't like that. It's unfortunate that we didn't 2250 01:43:16,160 --> 01:43:20,200 have a few holdouts, you know, that stuck to their principles 2251 01:43:20,200 --> 01:43:22,880 or convictions or whatever. But, you know, it's difficult 2252 01:43:22,880 --> 01:43:24,760 being a juror. I think there are great people 2253 01:43:24,760 --> 01:43:27,280 on the jury and I think that they took their job seriously. 2254 01:43:27,280 --> 01:43:30,600 So we're not at all, you know, upset with the jurors. 2255 01:43:30,600 --> 01:43:32,880 We're just hoping that the the appeals court is going to step 2256 01:43:32,880 --> 01:43:36,240 in here and make this right. Well, what's interesting is the 2257 01:43:36,240 --> 01:43:39,120 jury doesn't know that it's so unusual to get a a criminal 2258 01:43:39,120 --> 01:43:40,800 complaint for this particular matter. 2259 01:43:40,800 --> 01:43:43,000 And I think something like that hammering home, that's one of 2260 01:43:43,000 --> 01:43:44,920 those things where when you're a defense attorney, I don't think 2261 01:43:44,920 --> 01:43:48,480 you necessarily realize what would impact people like that. 2262 01:43:48,480 --> 01:43:50,640 And I think my audience is going to probably sound off in 2263 01:43:50,640 --> 01:43:52,120 comments. Feel free if you guys didn't 2264 01:43:52,120 --> 01:43:53,480 know that about the criminal complaints. 2265 01:43:53,960 --> 01:43:55,520 By all means put it in the comments because I think it's 2266 01:43:55,520 --> 01:43:57,520 worth knowing we have to share this kind of information around. 2267 01:43:57,720 --> 01:44:00,920 It's what's been so novel about J6, about the way they've used 2268 01:44:00,920 --> 01:44:02,760 that. Because most FBI agents never 2269 01:44:02,760 --> 01:44:05,000 wrote a criminal complaint and they had no reason to. 2270 01:44:05,000 --> 01:44:07,680 Maybe a couple times in their career over 2025 years. 2271 01:44:07,880 --> 01:44:10,160 I've talked to some that did 1520 years and never wrote one, 2272 01:44:10,240 --> 01:44:11,320 not even one. No reason. 2273 01:44:12,200 --> 01:44:14,200 And yet now it's getting very common because we've had 2274 01:44:14,200 --> 01:44:16,320 thousands of arrests and they were all based on complaints and 2275 01:44:16,320 --> 01:44:19,160 they were all J Sixers. So isn't that something that 2276 01:44:19,160 --> 01:44:21,400 it's basically opened up a toolbox that was previously 2277 01:44:21,400 --> 01:44:23,640 unused and that's actually a dangerous tool? 2278 01:44:24,200 --> 01:44:25,160 Very dangerous. Because. 2279 01:44:25,480 --> 01:44:26,960 Show arrests. Show trials. 2280 01:44:27,400 --> 01:44:29,640 That's what these are. I was literally told it's like 2281 01:44:30,320 --> 01:44:33,080 if we can call somebody up and say this is a white collar fraud 2282 01:44:33,080 --> 01:44:35,880 case, this is a, you know, an embezzlement case. 2283 01:44:35,880 --> 01:44:39,360 This is a conspiracy case, whatever, and these people are 2284 01:44:39,360 --> 01:44:41,520 not violent and they've already talked to us and they've got an 2285 01:44:41,520 --> 01:44:42,880 attorney and they've already been represented. 2286 01:44:43,040 --> 01:44:44,480 We'll just call him and say, hey, why don't you meet me out 2287 01:44:44,480 --> 01:44:46,320 in front of this hotel? Hey, I'll come pick you up at 2288 01:44:46,320 --> 01:44:48,080 your office. You know, hey, we can come do 2289 01:44:48,080 --> 01:44:50,680 this in a in a train lobby, fly in here and you when you land, 2290 01:44:50,680 --> 01:44:51,800 we'll come grab you and we'll hook you up. 2291 01:44:51,800 --> 01:44:53,440 We'll take you to the car and that's it. 2292 01:44:53,440 --> 01:44:56,320 It's supposed to be, you know, in many ways the FBI supposed to 2293 01:44:56,320 --> 01:44:57,680 be like a gentleman service of things. 2294 01:44:57,680 --> 01:45:00,120 It's like, look, it's not emotional, right? 2295 01:45:00,440 --> 01:45:03,280 We're not trying to, you know, throw you on the ground because 2296 01:45:03,280 --> 01:45:05,800 you just beat up some old lady. Like I've been in that. 2297 01:45:05,840 --> 01:45:07,480 I've done that. And even the guys who beat up 2298 01:45:07,480 --> 01:45:09,360 old ladies, we, we arrested them respectfully. 2299 01:45:09,360 --> 01:45:11,400 I literally arranged for surrenders because why wouldn't 2300 01:45:11,400 --> 01:45:13,360 you, right? It's like, why wouldn't you? 2301 01:45:13,360 --> 01:45:16,520 It's easier for everybody. It's safer, it's smarter, you're 2302 01:45:16,520 --> 01:45:18,880 above the fray in some ways. And when they go to make the 2303 01:45:18,880 --> 01:45:21,640 argument, oh, you know, this FBI agent is going to come testify 2304 01:45:21,640 --> 01:45:23,200 against me. You know, he threw me on the 2305 01:45:23,200 --> 01:45:25,200 hood of the car, did all this. It's like, no, he called me for 2306 01:45:25,200 --> 01:45:27,160 like a week. I had a guy that dug you like 2307 01:45:27,160 --> 01:45:29,080 this. I had a guy that that he didn't, 2308 01:45:29,080 --> 01:45:30,200 he didn't want to turn himself in. 2309 01:45:30,200 --> 01:45:32,240 We did a search warrant for his for his house and he wasn't 2310 01:45:32,240 --> 01:45:34,760 there. And we had an arrest warrant and 2311 01:45:34,760 --> 01:45:37,800 it was from an indictment came back with a with a true bill 2312 01:45:37,800 --> 01:45:39,520 from a grand jury. And he didn't want to turn 2313 01:45:39,520 --> 01:45:41,560 himself in. So I left my business card with 2314 01:45:41,560 --> 01:45:43,920 his roommate and he called me up and he goes, hey, man, heard you 2315 01:45:43,920 --> 01:45:45,720 looking for me. I said, yeah, do you want to 2316 01:45:45,720 --> 01:45:48,000 turn yourself in? And he said no, I got all this. 2317 01:45:48,000 --> 01:45:51,560 And he starts talking. I just hung up on him like I 2318 01:45:51,560 --> 01:45:53,240 don't OK, the Marshalls will find you later. 2319 01:45:53,240 --> 01:45:54,840 He called me back. Another day later, he goes, hey, 2320 01:45:55,600 --> 01:45:57,000 hey, are you still looking for me? 2321 01:45:57,000 --> 01:45:58,160 I go, yeah. Do you want the Marshalls to 2322 01:45:58,160 --> 01:45:59,440 find him or you want to turn yourself in? 2323 01:45:59,600 --> 01:46:01,560 He goes, no, I got all this beep hung up on him. 2324 01:46:01,920 --> 01:46:04,240 I hung up on him like a like a high school girlfriend like 3-4 2325 01:46:04,240 --> 01:46:06,160 times. And then about four days later, 2326 01:46:06,160 --> 01:46:07,440 he calls me up. He goes, hey, man, I'm not 2327 01:46:07,440 --> 01:46:10,080 trying to run from you. And I go, OK, when do you want 2328 01:46:10,080 --> 01:46:11,720 to meet up? He goes, how about today? 2329 01:46:11,720 --> 01:46:13,400 I go, no, I'm busy today. We could do it tomorrow. 2330 01:46:14,000 --> 01:46:16,880 Like I don't care. It doesn't matter to me as it 2331 01:46:16,880 --> 01:46:18,080 shouldn't. And that should have. 2332 01:46:18,080 --> 01:46:19,920 Been the case, that's the kind of Bureau that we need to have. 2333 01:46:20,120 --> 01:46:21,760 Well, that's what you should have experienced. 2334 01:46:21,840 --> 01:46:23,920 Above the ground Bureau. You should have experienced 2335 01:46:23,920 --> 01:46:25,120 that. You know, that's the thing that 2336 01:46:25,120 --> 01:46:26,240 should have happened. They should have called you up 2337 01:46:26,240 --> 01:46:27,880 and said, hey, we're pushing this thing. 2338 01:46:28,600 --> 01:46:30,640 You know, we're going to have a grand jury indictment. 2339 01:46:30,640 --> 01:46:34,000 It's going to, you expect to be required to surrender in the 2340 01:46:34,000 --> 01:46:36,440 next week or two. Get your stuff together and 2341 01:46:36,440 --> 01:46:38,960 you'd go, oh God, I better get a good defense team. 2342 01:46:38,960 --> 01:46:40,560 I better do all this stuff and then that'd be fine. 2343 01:46:40,560 --> 01:46:42,240 The government doesn't care. It's not supposed to. 2344 01:46:43,040 --> 01:46:45,400 Right. Yeah, exactly. 2345 01:46:45,480 --> 01:46:47,160 It's not. It's not how the system is 2346 01:46:47,160 --> 01:46:49,120 supposed to be. I mean, everything is becoming 2347 01:46:49,120 --> 01:46:53,560 very emotional, very hysterical. And honestly, that could 2348 01:46:53,560 --> 01:46:54,920 backfire. On the other side, we already 2349 01:46:54,920 --> 01:46:58,080 see the the Supreme Court just granted a review, as everybody 2350 01:46:58,080 --> 01:47:00,480 knows, of that obstruction statute. 2351 01:47:01,080 --> 01:47:04,880 So you rush to do this stuff and then I think this can really 2352 01:47:04,880 --> 01:47:08,480 hurt the legitimacy of the government and the, the, the 2353 01:47:08,520 --> 01:47:11,320 FBI, the DOJ, because if they're going to rush all the stuff, 2354 01:47:12,080 --> 01:47:15,160 well, and, and you know, shoot first, ask questions later and 2355 01:47:15,160 --> 01:47:18,560 then the courts are going to step in and say, no, you know, 2356 01:47:18,560 --> 01:47:21,440 that just vindicates what everybody's saying. 2357 01:47:21,440 --> 01:47:23,600 And that's going to that's going to hurt the country. 2358 01:47:23,600 --> 01:47:27,040 I mean, to have this sort of loss of faith is just going to 2359 01:47:27,040 --> 01:47:28,720 hurt the country. Think about how much money 2360 01:47:28,720 --> 01:47:30,920 they'll have wasted if none of this stuff it was all just 2361 01:47:30,920 --> 01:47:33,840 decided to like go after people for the sake of going after 2362 01:47:33,840 --> 01:47:35,560 them. Like think about how much money 2363 01:47:35,560 --> 01:47:37,240 we will have flushed down the toilet for that. 2364 01:47:38,080 --> 01:47:40,040 Right. And how many investigations, you 2365 01:47:40,040 --> 01:47:43,720 know, the FBI people don't realize the FBI is very limited. 2366 01:47:44,240 --> 01:47:47,240 We don't have a million, 2 million agents, whatever. 2367 01:47:47,720 --> 01:47:49,960 They have to pick and choose what they're investigating. 2368 01:47:50,520 --> 01:47:52,920 So this takes, you know, investigators away from other 2369 01:47:52,920 --> 01:47:56,600 things that are very important. Well, it could be important. 2370 01:47:56,600 --> 01:47:57,760 I will be OK with shutting them all down. 2371 01:47:57,760 --> 01:47:59,720 To be fair, at this point, having seen what was in there 2372 01:47:59,720 --> 01:48:01,280 and what they do, people have no idea. 2373 01:48:01,280 --> 01:48:04,200 But we're talking about 14,000 armed federal agents, of which a 2374 01:48:04,240 --> 01:48:06,640 couple thousand are involved in management and administrative 2375 01:48:06,640 --> 01:48:09,880 garbage, and a bunch of them do national security stuff. 2376 01:48:09,880 --> 01:48:11,640 That doesn't make a difference in my experience. 2377 01:48:12,520 --> 01:48:14,880 There are arguments to be made. On the contrary, there are 2378 01:48:14,880 --> 01:48:16,560 certain number of small number of people that actually do 2379 01:48:16,560 --> 01:48:18,600 something of value. But a lot of it is just make 2380 01:48:18,600 --> 01:48:19,800 work. It's people doing work for the 2381 01:48:19,800 --> 01:48:21,440 sake of it. And then you got a a small 2382 01:48:21,440 --> 01:48:22,960 number of people doing the criminal stuff. 2383 01:48:23,720 --> 01:48:25,960 You could take every one of those 14,000 and put them all on 2384 01:48:25,960 --> 01:48:28,040 child pornography cases and they would never run out of work. 2385 01:48:28,320 --> 01:48:29,920 That's right. But we don't do that. 2386 01:48:30,800 --> 01:48:34,840 We're arresting Doug Mackey, making the world safer democracy 2387 01:48:35,640 --> 01:48:37,880 by by stopping free speech. All right, wild stuff. 2388 01:48:37,880 --> 01:48:39,400 Well, I hope. How old is your son right now? 2389 01:48:40,240 --> 01:48:41,920 He's only two months. That's awesome. 2390 01:48:41,920 --> 01:48:43,800 I got a three month old right now, so I'm I'm in the same 2391 01:48:43,800 --> 01:48:45,840 boat. Congratulations, my my #4 and 2392 01:48:45,840 --> 01:48:47,800 there's nothing more fun than a baby around Christmas. 2393 01:48:48,120 --> 01:48:49,920 So I hope you guys have a very blessed Christmas. 2394 01:48:49,920 --> 01:48:51,960 I hope you guys enjoy that time. I know there's a lot of stress, 2395 01:48:51,960 --> 01:48:54,280 so I hope you get a few minutes where you can wake up and not 2396 01:48:54,280 --> 01:48:55,520 think about that for a few minutes. 2397 01:48:56,280 --> 01:48:57,280 Thank you. Appreciate that. 2398 01:48:57,400 --> 01:49:00,000 Probably very difficult. We'll we'll put meme defense 2399 01:49:00,000 --> 01:49:00,880 fund. Is that what it is? 2400 01:49:00,880 --> 01:49:02,960 Meme defense fund? We'll throw that up there in the 2401 01:49:03,000 --> 01:49:06,120 in the show notes and folks, you guys can go and check that out 2402 01:49:06,120 --> 01:49:07,320 folks. And then also the where can they 2403 01:49:07,320 --> 01:49:08,960 follow you on Twitter? Because I know you got updates 2404 01:49:08,960 --> 01:49:11,360 there. Yeah, it's at Doug Mackie case. 2405 01:49:12,000 --> 01:49:14,200 Doug Mackie Case. At Doug Mackie Case. 2406 01:49:14,360 --> 01:49:16,440 And for for those of you who follow me on Twitter, you'll 2407 01:49:16,440 --> 01:49:18,600 find it. I put the name in the show notes 2408 01:49:18,600 --> 01:49:20,360 for today and I also put it in the title. 2409 01:49:20,560 --> 01:49:22,360 So you can go back and look and find it right there. 2410 01:49:22,360 --> 01:49:24,280 So Doug, I do really appreciate it. 2411 01:49:24,280 --> 01:49:26,120 Thanks for thanks for taking all that time this morning because 2412 01:49:26,120 --> 01:49:28,400 it was fun for me to to kind of cut it up with you. 2413 01:49:29,000 --> 01:49:30,240 Thank you. Really appreciate it. 2414 01:49:30,240 --> 01:49:30,920 God bless you. All right. 2415 01:49:31,280 --> 01:49:33,480 All right, buddy. All right, so ladies and 2416 01:49:33,480 --> 01:49:35,400 gentlemen, that is our show for today. 2417 01:49:35,400 --> 01:49:36,720 I hope you guys learned something. 2418 01:49:36,720 --> 01:49:38,680 Number one, I hope you have a little bit of a greater 2419 01:49:38,680 --> 01:49:41,680 perspective on what we just saw #2 all good things. 2420 01:49:41,720 --> 01:49:44,000 And let me say thanks to the people that keep the lights on 2421 01:49:44,000 --> 01:49:45,080 over here. I want to say thanks to my 2422 01:49:45,080 --> 01:49:48,680 friends over at 4 Patriots. You can go to fourpatriots.com, 2423 01:49:48,680 --> 01:49:52,560 that's the number 4 Patriots with an s.com/kyle or just use 2424 01:49:52,560 --> 01:49:55,640 promo code Kyle and you can troll through all the things. 2425 01:49:55,640 --> 01:49:56,640 Use the word troll. There we go. 2426 01:49:57,040 --> 01:49:59,240 You can check out all of the outstanding ideas. 2427 01:49:59,440 --> 01:50:01,240 Ryan just loves coming back to my lemon bars. 2428 01:50:01,280 --> 01:50:02,600 I really do. It's the ultimate. 2429 01:50:03,040 --> 01:50:05,320 Bitch. It's the ultimate no prep 2430 01:50:05,320 --> 01:50:06,840 survival to it. What's funny is after we made 2431 01:50:06,840 --> 01:50:09,000 these, my mother sent me pictures of the lemon bar she 2432 01:50:09,000 --> 01:50:10,840 made. Not nearly the same animal. 2433 01:50:10,840 --> 01:50:12,160 These things last for up to five years. 2434 01:50:12,160 --> 01:50:14,600 You can throw them in a truck if you guys get stuck somewhere 2435 01:50:14,600 --> 01:50:15,800 where it's cold or you're without food. 2436 01:50:15,800 --> 01:50:20,040 If you want to put them in for just for camping, for survival, 2437 01:50:20,040 --> 01:50:21,200 there's a lot of different sort of use. 2438 01:50:21,360 --> 01:50:23,960 I like the idea of keeping survival foods that you also 2439 01:50:23,960 --> 01:50:26,280 alternate with your basic training, which is to say you go 2440 01:50:26,280 --> 01:50:28,600 out in the wilderness and you walk around, you go on a hike, 2441 01:50:28,600 --> 01:50:29,920 you go on a camping trip, etcetera. 2442 01:50:30,040 --> 01:50:31,120 So you kind of cycle them through. 2443 01:50:31,120 --> 01:50:34,000 So don't make them waste five years, just cycle them in every 2444 01:50:34,000 --> 01:50:35,960 couple years. You guys got water purification 2445 01:50:35,960 --> 01:50:37,680 options, solar power, etcetera, etcetera. 2446 01:50:37,880 --> 01:50:40,120 Go check out all the different options and the survival food is 2447 01:50:40,120 --> 01:50:42,640 kind of the number one thing that I think is probably the 2448 01:50:42,640 --> 01:50:44,200 biggest thing that most people are not repped for. 2449 01:50:44,200 --> 01:50:46,560 If you got ammo and you got guns and you got food, you're 2450 01:50:46,560 --> 01:50:48,640 probably going to be OK. Maybe some candles and then 2451 01:50:48,640 --> 01:50:51,000 figure out your solar stuff. So again, for the #4 2452 01:50:51,000 --> 01:50:54,680 patriots.com/kyle, that'll get you all the deals that are 2453 01:50:54,680 --> 01:50:58,040 negotiated out through our little deal with four Patriots 2454 01:50:58,240 --> 01:51:00,640 and we do appreciate them. Let's promote the sweatshop. 2455 01:51:00,640 --> 01:51:03,160 I got kind of a one off shirt on right now I'm wearing a blue, a 2456 01:51:03,160 --> 01:51:05,560 thin blue line in, blue out. I'm not sure if Garrett is 2457 01:51:05,560 --> 01:51:07,840 selling all these, but you can go to the Dash suspendables. 2458 01:51:08,000 --> 01:51:10,520 That's the Dash suspendables.com that's going to support FBI 2459 01:51:10,520 --> 01:51:12,160 whistleblower Garrett O Boyle's family. 2460 01:51:12,160 --> 01:51:14,480 That's the O Boyle family sweatshop keeping his kids 2461 01:51:14,480 --> 01:51:16,920 sweating through the holidays. My favorite shirt is that 2462 01:51:16,920 --> 01:51:17,880 they're on the front right there. 2463 01:51:17,880 --> 01:51:19,520 Click on the black one with the with the rifle. 2464 01:51:19,520 --> 01:51:23,320 If you would Ryan the the last line own the nightshirt kind of 2465 01:51:23,320 --> 01:51:24,640 looks like going through night vision. 2466 01:51:24,800 --> 01:51:26,800 I actually just sent Garrett a picture of my night vision 2467 01:51:26,800 --> 01:51:29,560 sitting on top of that shirt. I got a set of Bino night vision 2468 01:51:29,560 --> 01:51:31,880 folks. So check out the dash 2469 01:51:31,880 --> 01:51:34,440 suspendables. Don't forget the dash.com. 2470 01:51:34,440 --> 01:51:36,240 You can use my promo code there, which will save you a couple of 2471 01:51:36,240 --> 01:51:37,640 bucks. I get nothing out of it other 2472 01:51:37,640 --> 01:51:39,920 than I get to know that my buddy is working and that we are 2473 01:51:39,920 --> 01:51:41,480 supporting them and you guys have been doing a great job. 2474 01:51:41,680 --> 01:51:44,320 Keep them extra busy. They have been very, very busy. 2475 01:51:44,320 --> 01:51:46,280 He's gotten a small breather since he came back from Fargo, 2476 01:51:46,280 --> 01:51:48,040 but keep promoting the sweatshop. 2477 01:51:48,280 --> 01:51:50,240 And if you guys are looking for stocking stuffers, things like 2478 01:51:50,240 --> 01:51:52,680 the pins and the patches are great. 2479 01:51:53,040 --> 01:51:55,120 I just had a friend reach out and ask me about a plate carrier 2480 01:51:55,120 --> 01:51:57,080 system. And now I got to send him one of 2481 01:51:57,080 --> 01:51:59,160 our patches, which I think I have. 2482 01:51:59,640 --> 01:52:01,000 I have one right here. Yep. 2483 01:52:01,280 --> 01:52:03,960 And remember, the Eagle is down. It's an agency under duress 2484 01:52:04,120 --> 01:52:05,560 doing things like going after Doug Mackey. 2485 01:52:05,560 --> 01:52:07,680 You guys, they're going after Doug, They're going after the 2486 01:52:07,680 --> 01:52:09,440 former president. They're going after people like 2487 01:52:09,440 --> 01:52:11,840 the Boyle family. It is the reason why we wear the 2488 01:52:11,840 --> 01:52:14,360 badge upside down. It is really a protest about 2489 01:52:14,360 --> 01:52:17,200 what goes on there. And lastly but not least, you 2490 01:52:17,200 --> 01:52:20,040 can support Mike Lindell and you can support that by getting 2491 01:52:20,040 --> 01:52:23,040 excellent products from mypillow.com/kyle. 2492 01:52:23,280 --> 01:52:25,680 The number of you that have reached out and been 1 using our 2493 01:52:25,680 --> 01:52:28,840 promo code Kyle and also telling me the things that you love at 2494 01:52:28,840 --> 01:52:31,040 My Pillow. I had no idea like before I did 2495 01:52:31,040 --> 01:52:33,120 any of this stuff, like my Pillow wasn't even on my radar. 2496 01:52:34,200 --> 01:52:37,120 I knew that it existed sort of. I think my wife ended up buying 2497 01:52:37,120 --> 01:52:38,760 the 1.0. We may have to give the 2.0 a 2498 01:52:38,760 --> 01:52:40,600 shot. But I know my parents use the 2499 01:52:40,600 --> 01:52:42,160 sheets. I know Steve friends parents use 2500 01:52:42,160 --> 01:52:43,800 the sheets. I know a number of you guys are 2501 01:52:43,800 --> 01:52:45,760 running around the slippers, including Ryan who is doing 2502 01:52:45,760 --> 01:52:48,040 construction in the damn slippers. 2503 01:52:48,440 --> 01:52:50,760 He's out there cutting drywall and vacuum off. 2504 01:52:50,760 --> 01:52:55,040 So check out those. You can use mypillow.com/kyle or 2505 01:52:55,040 --> 01:52:57,720 just use the promo code when you go to the Mypillow website and 2506 01:52:58,120 --> 01:53:00,640 we get credit for that. That's it. 2507 01:53:00,680 --> 01:53:03,440 We got 1 five star review that we're going to read for you guys 2508 01:53:03,440 --> 01:53:04,680 today. Do we have any credible? 2509 01:53:04,680 --> 01:53:08,320 Do we have any required rumble rants we got to get through? 2510 01:53:09,040 --> 01:53:09,720 Too. Yeah, we got one. 2511 01:53:10,880 --> 01:53:12,760 All right, let's do the five star review and I'll let you 2512 01:53:12,760 --> 01:53:13,920 pull up the review in a second here. 2513 01:53:13,920 --> 01:53:16,760 Oh, we can do that one. We can ask it, we'll ask Doug 2514 01:53:16,760 --> 01:53:19,240 out there in a little bit later. We'll we'll have him respond on 2515 01:53:19,240 --> 01:53:21,600 Twitter, but it asks if he can counter sue for damages or even 2516 01:53:21,600 --> 01:53:23,280 legal fees. All that stuff is going to come 2517 01:53:23,280 --> 01:53:24,760 much, much later in the game, right? 2518 01:53:24,760 --> 01:53:27,880 The folks at this point, the game is, is get through and not 2519 01:53:27,880 --> 01:53:29,480 go to prison. I think that's going to be the 2520 01:53:29,480 --> 01:53:30,880 number one thing. All right, let's read a five 2521 01:53:30,880 --> 01:53:32,320 star review and then we'll shut this thing down. 2522 01:53:32,320 --> 01:53:34,040 I do appreciate you guys sticking with us for this time. 2523 01:53:34,320 --> 01:53:38,600 You guys can link to the podcast links or the podcast reviews in 2524 01:53:38,760 --> 01:53:42,000 the show descriptions. And here is 1 from DBA one mom 2525 01:53:42,000 --> 01:53:43,840 who I know I've read before that looks familiar. 2526 01:53:43,840 --> 01:53:45,640 Five stars. Again, revealing what is 2527 01:53:45,640 --> 01:53:48,680 happening is often less pleasing, but it is our reality 2528 01:53:48,680 --> 01:53:51,840 lately and we need to know so we can push back, get united and be 2529 01:53:51,840 --> 01:53:53,400 prepared. That's exactly right. 2530 01:53:53,400 --> 01:53:54,600 That's why the show is done today. 2531 01:53:54,600 --> 01:53:56,960 That's the specifics of it says God fearing Christians, 2532 01:53:56,960 --> 01:53:59,240 Catholics and all who believe in Jesus is our Lord and Savior 2533 01:53:59,360 --> 01:54:00,800 must hold tight for what is coming. 2534 01:54:02,360 --> 01:54:04,240 Always thankful and truly blessed to be in the 2535 01:54:04,240 --> 01:54:05,240 suspendables community. Zip. 2536 01:54:06,000 --> 01:54:08,640 We really do appreciate you leaving the five star reviews 2537 01:54:08,640 --> 01:54:10,160 folks. We are slowly eking our way up 2538 01:54:10,160 --> 01:54:11,880 towards the 1000 mark. I don't know if we're going to 2539 01:54:11,880 --> 01:54:13,920 make it to the end of the year, make 1000, but we are getting 2540 01:54:13,920 --> 01:54:16,040 damn close and it has definitely been a wild ride. 2541 01:54:16,240 --> 01:54:19,720 We've cleared almost 1.5 million audio downloads through all the 2542 01:54:19,720 --> 01:54:22,600 podcast apps this year, which is pretty incredible because six 2543 01:54:22,600 --> 01:54:24,560 months in we are only at 400,000. 2544 01:54:24,720 --> 01:54:26,160 So you guys are making the show grow. 2545 01:54:26,160 --> 01:54:27,480 You guys are the ones who are sharing it. 2546 01:54:27,920 --> 01:54:30,000 All of you who are watching it on all the various places, make 2547 01:54:30,000 --> 01:54:33,600 sure you've gone to rumble.com/kyle Serafin. 2548 01:54:33,600 --> 01:54:35,920 That's where we keep the live show and the big chat that we 2549 01:54:35,920 --> 01:54:37,880 keep a track of, which has been bumping all day today. 2550 01:54:37,880 --> 01:54:39,080 I'll have to go back and read it. 2551 01:54:39,680 --> 01:54:41,760 Make sure you guys are going there and giving us a thumbs up 2552 01:54:41,760 --> 01:54:43,800 and sharing these videos, particularly the story of Doug 2553 01:54:43,800 --> 01:54:45,760 Mackey. If you haven't heard on some of 2554 01:54:45,840 --> 01:54:48,200 these facts before, it's worth sharing and we'll probably cut a 2555 01:54:48,200 --> 01:54:50,040 couple of shorts out and make sure it's distributed out on 2556 01:54:50,040 --> 01:54:51,440 social. So thanks so much for joining us 2557 01:54:51,440 --> 01:54:54,080 there. That's it for us today. 2558 01:54:54,080 --> 01:54:55,480 God bless you all. Thanks for listening. 2559 01:54:55,480 --> 01:54:58,120 And we will see you again tomorrow for another Kyle 2560 01:54:58,120 --> 01:55:00,160 Seraphin show. Thanks for listening to the Kyle 2561 01:55:00,160 --> 01:55:04,080 Seraphin show, streamed live weekdays on rumble.com/kyle 2562 01:55:04,080 --> 01:55:06,360 Seraphin. Follow Kyle on Twitter, True 2563 01:55:06,360 --> 01:55:09,680 Social and Instagram at Kyle Seraphin.