1 00:00:04,680 --> 00:00:07,720 Now all interviewers have their own style, and my style is to 2 00:00:07,720 --> 00:00:10,840 try to get to the point and to be intensely curious. 3 00:00:10,840 --> 00:00:13,680 And the key to interviewing is listening. 4 00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:17,160 Take a look behind the curtain with a real whistleblower and 5 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:19,560 American patriot. Prepare to embrace the 6 00:00:19,560 --> 00:00:23,000 uncomfortable truth because this program has no time for 7 00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:25,440 comforting lies. Here is civil liberties 8 00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:29,360 enthusiast, Second Amendment defender, and recovering FBI 9 00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:33,960 agent Kyle Serif. Well, hello my friends and 10 00:00:33,960 --> 00:00:37,800 welcome to the first ever Sunday sit down. 11 00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:40,360 Best of edition. This is going to be with one of 12 00:00:40,360 --> 00:00:42,960 my favorite guests of all time, the one of the most, I think, 13 00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:46,280 impactful folks on my thinking. A reminder that we can all 14 00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:48,640 change. We can all move beyond our 15 00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:50,800 partisan differences. We're going to be talking to Amy 16 00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:52,800 Nelson. Yes, this is an older interview 17 00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:54,080 and I've reached into the archives. 18 00:00:54,080 --> 00:00:56,480 For the first time ever, we're going to do kind of a replay 19 00:00:56,480 --> 00:00:59,440 show. I noticed that we had about 300 20 00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:03,320 views and a very shortened version of this over on YouTube. 21 00:01:04,319 --> 00:01:06,360 If nothing else, it reminds me that we should share it with 22 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:09,960 that audience. But we didn't used to have the 23 00:01:09,960 --> 00:01:12,880 same reach, and this story deserves that reach. 24 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:15,840 The story of Amy Nelson is one of government overreach. 25 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:19,720 It's one of a Democrat who left her party and decided that 26 00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:23,040 that's not what she stood for as an American when she saw a 27 00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:25,320 weaponization of government in a very first hand way. 28 00:01:25,560 --> 00:01:29,200 It is a heartbreaking story. I can tell you that I have, I 29 00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:32,280 have shed tears over this and that's not a thing that I do 30 00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:33,760 very easily. You guys will see there's some 31 00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:35,600 emotion involved in this interview. 32 00:01:35,960 --> 00:01:38,760 We've done a few talks with Amy and I'm going to pepper them in 33 00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:40,920 over the next couple weeks because I want you to hear the 34 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:42,080 story. And then I'm going to have Amy 35 00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:44,560 come back on and talk to us because her story's ongoing. 36 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:48,240 And you'd think it would be over and you'd think that four years, 37 00:01:48,240 --> 00:01:50,080 five years would be long enough, but it's not. 38 00:01:50,080 --> 00:01:51,960 So we're going to keep doing that. 39 00:01:52,120 --> 00:01:53,840 And I'm going to go into the archives and grab some of the 40 00:01:53,840 --> 00:01:55,040 other stories. We've talked to FBI 41 00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:57,200 whistleblowers that you guys, you know, if you're relatively 42 00:01:57,200 --> 00:01:58,560 new to the channel, you probably haven't heard. 43 00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:01,360 And I'm not asking anybody to go digging in there and find it. 44 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:03,320 So I'm going to represent it if that's OK with you all. 45 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:05,480 And there's going to just be times when we do a best of show. 46 00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:10,160 I want to make sure that we give the roots of this program the 47 00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:12,720 proper, the proper acknowledgement. 48 00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:15,400 We didn't always, I didn't always work out of a set that I 49 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:17,840 had built like this. We've it's been a very organic 50 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:19,360 process. Anyone who thinks that popped 51 00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:21,000 out of nowhere. You'll get to see. 52 00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:23,800 The audio wasn't as good, the video wasn't as good, the 53 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:26,560 editing wasn't as clean, the intros weren't there. 54 00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:28,960 I didn't have thumbnails. There's a whole bunch of stuff 55 00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:31,080 that I had to learn how to do. This was not a job that I 56 00:02:31,080 --> 00:02:33,240 thought I was going to go out and do in my life, and I didn't 57 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:34,840 know that it was going to last or be able to turn into an 58 00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:36,280 income. So appreciate all of you that 59 00:02:36,280 --> 00:02:38,160 have joined us. And that's a great reminder as 60 00:02:38,160 --> 00:02:40,680 you're watching right now if you're over on Rumble and you've 61 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:42,440 been there since the beginning. Yeah, I like the video. 62 00:02:42,440 --> 00:02:43,960 You guys know what to do. Same thing on YouTube. 63 00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:46,440 Really would appreciate that. And those of you follow on X, 64 00:02:46,600 --> 00:02:48,520 especially for those of you that find that as your primary 65 00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:50,760 source, We don't get monetized there, but I have no problem 66 00:02:50,760 --> 00:02:52,240 with anybody watching it wherever you watch it. 67 00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:54,920 So make sure you guys are doing that, like the videos, make sure 68 00:02:54,920 --> 00:02:56,200 you're thumbing up. Share with a friend if you 69 00:02:56,200 --> 00:02:57,480 would. If you want to do it the easiest 70 00:02:57,480 --> 00:03:00,440 way possible, just send them a link to kyleseraphinshow.com. 71 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:02,680 You see it on the screen. That's our Spotify channel. 72 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:05,200 You can follow us there. You can leave comments, you can 73 00:03:05,360 --> 00:03:07,360 give us a five star review. All those things are great. 74 00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:09,480 And it's where we have some of our best monetization when it 75 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:11,280 comes AD revenues and there's not that much of it. 76 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:13,360 Locals is another way you guys can support us at 77 00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:16,280 kyleserafin.com if you guys want to join our insider group. 78 00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:18,960 And lastly, any of the video platforms, it's always easy. 79 00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:20,920 Make sure you like it. That gives us an algorithmic 80 00:03:20,920 --> 00:03:22,000 boost. Share it with a friend if you 81 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:23,560 like and make sure you subscribe to those channels. 82 00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:26,160 So that's all I'm going to say. You will hear some intermittent 83 00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:29,120 pop up Spotify ads if you're listening on the audio, if 84 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:31,400 you're watching on the video, the odds are there's going to be 85 00:03:31,400 --> 00:03:33,680 some aftermarket where they punch in their own little AD 86 00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:36,320 revenue. For whatever it's worth, we do 87 00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:38,040 get a chunk of money out of all those things. 88 00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:40,280 None of them are enough to pay the bills, but all of them help 89 00:03:40,280 --> 00:03:42,800 a little bit. And so, you know, I appreciate 90 00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:44,120 your tolerance with all this stuff. 91 00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:46,520 I can't demonetize individual videos. 92 00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:48,840 I don't think. I haven't seen how that works. 93 00:03:48,840 --> 00:03:51,520 So God bless all of you. Look forward to sharing this 94 00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:52,560 story with you. Haven't heard it. 95 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:54,440 And if you have heard it and it's a little reminder, then 96 00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:56,160 that's OK too. You're going to hear the story 97 00:03:56,160 --> 00:03:59,360 of a really courageous woman and a Great American, Amy Nelson, 98 00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:10,680 coming up now. Welcome my friends. 99 00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:12,880 Today on the Kyle, Sarah and Show. 100 00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:15,840 We have a wonderful guest who agreed to come talk to us. 101 00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:18,640 I heard her story only in part while I was driving back from 102 00:04:18,640 --> 00:04:21,760 the SHOT Show in Vegas, and I told her I didn't want to hear 103 00:04:21,760 --> 00:04:23,280 anymore until I heard it from her mouth. 104 00:04:23,280 --> 00:04:25,520 I didn't want it second hand. So we're going to get the the 105 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:28,360 original reaction on this. There's no rehearsals and 106 00:04:28,360 --> 00:04:31,560 there's very little background. Her name is Amy Nelson. 107 00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:33,560 She's an attorney. She has a mother of four 108 00:04:33,560 --> 00:04:36,520 wonderful, very cute little girls, which we'll we'll show 109 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:38,920 you her her Twitter page here. She's a wife and an 110 00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:41,520 entrepreneur, and she is also the host of the What's Her Story 111 00:04:41,520 --> 00:04:45,760 with Sam and Amy podcast, the founder of the Riveter Company, 112 00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:48,200 which we'll also throw in the description below so you guys 113 00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:51,120 can check out that link. And I want to welcome her right 114 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:53,720 now and we'll jump right into this thing with no further ado. 115 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:56,080 Amy, welcome to the Kyle Seraphin show. 116 00:04:56,880 --> 00:04:59,600 Thanks so much for having me. And we're really lucky because 117 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:01,640 we have producer Phil today, because usually when I do these 118 00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:03,280 things solo, they're always a little bit more sketchy. 119 00:05:03,280 --> 00:05:06,320 So I got Phil. He's he's, he's left me alone. 120 00:05:06,320 --> 00:05:09,240 I was in a hotel in Vegas doing a taping by myself, and I had no 121 00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:11,600 one. It was just me just just winging 122 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:12,760 it. That's frightening. 123 00:05:13,200 --> 00:05:15,480 You never want to do it. No, it's never good. 124 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:18,040 It's never good to go alone. Tell us a little bit about where 125 00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:20,480 you grew up and and how you got to this point. 126 00:05:20,480 --> 00:05:22,080 And we'll do kind of a quick intro, folks. 127 00:05:22,640 --> 00:05:23,840 I know I've gone a little long and some of these. 128 00:05:23,840 --> 00:05:25,480 So we're going to keep this kind of tight and then we're going to 129 00:05:25,480 --> 00:05:28,680 get into a story, which is wild. Yeah, so I grew up in Columbus, 130 00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:32,840 OH, with a great family and then went away to college when I was 131 00:05:32,840 --> 00:05:34,840 18. I went to Emory University, 132 00:05:35,280 --> 00:05:38,920 studied International Studies, and then went to law school at 133 00:05:38,920 --> 00:05:42,040 NYU. And I ended up working in New 134 00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:46,280 York as a commercial litigator for a number of years. 135 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:51,080 And then eventually I met my husband and we moved to Seattle 136 00:05:51,080 --> 00:05:54,200 together. He joined Amazon Web Services, 137 00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:57,280 which was at the time was a little subsidiary of Amazon.com. 138 00:05:57,800 --> 00:06:01,240 And I kept layering until I became a mother. 139 00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:04,880 And then when I became a mother, I was really struggling in 140 00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:08,760 corporate America to kind of both see my my daughter and 141 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:10,840 work, which were two things I wanted to do. 142 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:13,920 So I thought I would go out on my own as a lawyer and started 143 00:06:13,920 --> 00:06:16,560 going to classes on how to write a business plan and do all those 144 00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:19,480 things and figured out that women didn't really have support 145 00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:21,160 and community around starting businesses. 146 00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:24,720 So I built a business called the Riveter to do just that. 147 00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:27,000 And this is based on Rosie the Riveter. 148 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:28,160 Is that kind of where it's coming from? 149 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:29,840 It is. It's based on Rosie the Riveter, 150 00:06:29,840 --> 00:06:32,320 which was, you know, a time when women were called to the 151 00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:35,400 workforce to support the American war efforts and really 152 00:06:35,400 --> 00:06:37,840 rose to the occasion. And so just to kind of pay 153 00:06:37,840 --> 00:06:40,920 homage to that, to those incredibly patriotic and amazing 154 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:42,880 women. For sure, absolutely. 155 00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:45,720 It's got to be tough too, just trying to bounce out being a 156 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:47,840 mother, especially now that you have 41. 157 00:06:47,840 --> 00:06:51,560 It's a challenge and and we have 3, you know, my wife is also has 158 00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:53,440 a professional degree and it's one of those things that I think 159 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:57,560 is a it's a big challenge and she opted, you know, to stay and 160 00:06:57,560 --> 00:07:00,440 just deal with them because they're full speed, especially 161 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:03,360 boys and girls mixed up. And, you know, how does that 162 00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:06,320 challenge factor into being? Attorney's pretty demanding work 163 00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:08,080 usually, and running a company can't be. 164 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:10,360 Yeah. I mean, being an attorney, the 165 00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:12,800 thing about being an attorney, so I worked as a litigator. 166 00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:15,240 So it's client services, which I think a lot of people forget, 167 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:17,200 like you're just at the beck and call of your clients and it's 168 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:19,800 completely unpredictable. And at the time we lived in 169 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:22,240 Seattle, my husband was travelling constantly for 170 00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:25,800 Amazon. So I was really alone and my 171 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:28,880 amazing mother, who had retired from 35 years as a public school 172 00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:31,400 teacher, came out and helped me. That's big. 173 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:34,040 Didn't feel like a great fit. I think ultimately for me too, 174 00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:38,200 as a lawyer, and this is ironic when we go into my story, but I 175 00:07:38,200 --> 00:07:41,840 really felt like lawyers like hindering innovation. 176 00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:44,640 They're kind of like had made themselves very necessary, but I 177 00:07:44,880 --> 00:07:47,040 they didn't really contribute a lot. 178 00:07:47,320 --> 00:07:49,080 And I really wanted to contribute. 179 00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:51,960 And so that's why I watched people building businesses as a 180 00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:53,200 lawyer. And I said, I want to be on that 181 00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:54,600 side of this. That seems to be more 182 00:07:54,600 --> 00:07:57,720 interesting to me. It's funny, I had a kind of a 183 00:07:57,720 --> 00:07:59,280 funny experience in law enforcement. 184 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:02,000 We have attorneys at the FBI. They're, you know, kind of the 185 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:04,040 no factory. It's like, I got this creative 186 00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:05,840 idea, I want to go do this. And they're like, no, you can't 187 00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:07,320 do that. And then you bring up another 188 00:08:07,320 --> 00:08:09,920 idea and it's no, it's no. And so it's funny that it, that 189 00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:11,520 would also be the case in private industry. 190 00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:12,840 It does. It makes sense to me because 191 00:08:12,840 --> 00:08:15,680 they're they're always seeing the risk and you know, where the 192 00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:18,600 where the pitfalls are and people who are innovators and 193 00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:20,200 people who are entrepreneurs are always seeing what the 194 00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:23,240 possibilities are and the goals. So yeah, they're kind of 195 00:08:23,240 --> 00:08:25,200 antithetical to each other with the way that they started, lined 196 00:08:25,200 --> 00:08:27,720 up their goals, right? They really are, until and 197 00:08:27,720 --> 00:08:29,920 unless you get a company like Amazon that's big enough that 198 00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:32,400 they don't play by the rules. And they just crush everybody. 199 00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:35,240 Yeah, I think. I think there are obviously 200 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:37,559 examples of the brick and mortar end that was Walmart for a long 201 00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:40,919 time, just steamrolled through, didn't care about litigation, 202 00:08:40,919 --> 00:08:43,080 didn't care about regulations. They could go through and make 203 00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:44,640 that happen. And obviously Amazon stepped 204 00:08:44,640 --> 00:08:47,360 into that space in a big way. Yeah, there's a name for it. 205 00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:49,400 There's a name for it. They call it lawfare when you 206 00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:52,320 use the law as warfare. And I think that's a 207 00:08:52,480 --> 00:08:54,520 interesting, interesting way to describe it. 208 00:08:55,080 --> 00:08:57,720 Well, So what my my listeners who are, you know, big kind of 209 00:08:57,720 --> 00:09:00,320 advocates of things like Second Amendment and and now First 210 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:02,400 Amendment I think has also been a big issue since the Twitter 211 00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:04,920 Files will be familiar with that because it's the only way that 212 00:09:04,920 --> 00:09:07,320 you can really fight back. Unfortunately, it's usually very 213 00:09:07,320 --> 00:09:09,960 expensive and it's usually take some very courageous souls in 214 00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:12,880 small industry to go step up against these big guys because 215 00:09:12,880 --> 00:09:15,080 they can just stomp you. I mean it really does. 216 00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:18,280 And I think when I practice law in New York, I practice First 217 00:09:18,280 --> 00:09:19,960 Amendment law. And when I went into First 218 00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:23,760 Amendment law, I thought I would be working for media, etcetera. 219 00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:26,120 It was interesting because I ended up working a lot around 220 00:09:26,520 --> 00:09:29,200 business and businesses who needed their First Amendment 221 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:33,320 rights protected. And you know, it is, they look, 222 00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:35,920 we have very, we actually have very few rights and their rights 223 00:09:35,920 --> 00:09:37,120 that are enshrined are important. 224 00:09:37,520 --> 00:09:41,000 And so however they come to manifest, it's really important 225 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:43,800 that we that we care and that we try to keep them. 226 00:09:44,520 --> 00:09:47,800 It's funny, my, my colleague who is another FBI whistleblower 227 00:09:47,800 --> 00:09:50,320 just wrote a piece on the 3rd Amendment, which is probably the 228 00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:53,120 forgotten amendment in the Bill of Rights that nobody really 229 00:09:53,120 --> 00:09:54,640 thinks about. But he had a really interesting 230 00:09:54,640 --> 00:09:56,160 take on it. And it's funny that you say that 231 00:09:56,160 --> 00:09:57,680 we, I mean, we do need to protect our rights. 232 00:09:57,680 --> 00:10:00,080 There's only a few of them. It's, it's they're, they're 233 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:01,960 supposed to be cordons where the government's not supposed to 234 00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:03,760 intrude. And we act like the government 235 00:10:03,760 --> 00:10:05,840 has granted them to us. And I think that fundamental 236 00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:08,560 shift has been really, you know, it's really dangerous for 237 00:10:08,560 --> 00:10:10,360 Americans who don't understand civics. 238 00:10:10,760 --> 00:10:11,920 Yeah, I agree. And it is. 239 00:10:12,080 --> 00:10:15,120 It's also interesting too because I feel like our rights 240 00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:17,480 are politicized a lot and they shift with the winds. 241 00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:22,280 Like if you look at 20 years ago, progressives and Kyle, you 242 00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:24,120 know this, but I identified as a progressive. 243 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:26,360 Yeah, we're we're going. To get into that in a second, 244 00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:27,720 because I think, I think it's really interesting. 245 00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:31,600 But, you know, progressives hated the FBI, right? 246 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:35,160 In the post 911 era, it was, you know, it's just so against the 247 00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:38,640 FBI. And now progressives are just so 248 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:42,080 pro FBI because they believe that the FBI is taking on 249 00:10:42,080 --> 00:10:43,720 something Trump that they don't like. 250 00:10:44,240 --> 00:10:46,600 And it's really dangerous for both progressives and 251 00:10:46,600 --> 00:10:50,720 conservatives to politicize our rights and the agencies that 252 00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:54,640 were built to allow us to keep those rights. 100% agree with 253 00:10:54,640 --> 00:10:56,520 you. It's funny, I, I've seen some, 254 00:10:56,520 --> 00:10:58,360 some memes that have been out there on the Internet and 255 00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:00,280 there's a lot of very creative, intelligent people that make 256 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:04,560 these and they show it. I think that the Alvin King, 257 00:11:04,560 --> 00:11:07,480 whatever his name is Elrond, I think it's showing, you know, 258 00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:10,240 that the ring of power and, and it says libertarians and it says 259 00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:11,960 don't take it. And then it's got, you know, two 260 00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:13,960 different groups. You got Gollum who they, they 261 00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:16,480 had the Democrats and they had, you know, the, the, the kings of 262 00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:18,120 men that were the, the Republicans. 263 00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:19,840 And everybody wants to wield the ring of power. 264 00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:21,880 The only thing you can do with the wing of power is either have 265 00:11:21,880 --> 00:11:25,440 it, you know, hidden away and apolitical or you got to throw 266 00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:28,440 it in the fire. And, and it's fun that, that 267 00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:29,920 we've seen this. I, I always told people like 268 00:11:29,920 --> 00:11:32,640 what I'm doing is not political. It, it shouldn't be at least. 269 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:37,760 And most people that I met that were in the FBI, particularly in 270 00:11:37,760 --> 00:11:40,160 the enforcement, and we're not political people, especially the 271 00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:42,760 people 10 plus years in. So that goes back to the kind of 272 00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:45,120 the old school. But, and, and you may agree with 273 00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:47,400 this, I think the FBI has committed pretty significant 274 00:11:47,400 --> 00:11:49,320 sins in every decade of its existence. 275 00:11:49,640 --> 00:11:51,720 And I think there's pretty good documentation for it. 276 00:11:52,360 --> 00:11:54,240 I mean I. Agree like when I I always say 277 00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:57,040 to my friends who are progressive like you are, you're 278 00:11:57,040 --> 00:12:00,000 so pro FBI right now. Do you remember 2016 when James 279 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:03,200 comedy you know, came out two weeks before the election and 280 00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:06,040 caused chaos like we don't know if Hillary would have won. 281 00:12:06,040 --> 00:12:09,640 We don't know, but like that was an inappropriate action pursuant 282 00:12:09,640 --> 00:12:11,240 to FBI policy. It's. 283 00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:14,360 Funny because I, I think that he probably just pushed people into 284 00:12:14,360 --> 00:12:16,640 their own silos. I, I think that the, the balance 285 00:12:16,640 --> 00:12:18,240 of it probably cut. It was a double edged sword 286 00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:20,200 because the people that were on the liberal side, the 287 00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:22,320 progressive side, you know, they, they heard what they 288 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:24,800 wanted to hear, that she didn't do anything with prosecution. 289 00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:26,800 And the people that were on the other side heard, you know, that 290 00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:28,720 they weren't going to prosecute and they were also mad at her. 291 00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:32,000 And so then, you know, I don't know that it cut either way. 292 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:34,360 But but it's really dangerous to get messing around with 293 00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:36,600 politics. It is, it is a dangerous thing 294 00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:38,120 to do. So I yeah, I've definitely 295 00:12:38,120 --> 00:12:40,200 learned a lot. I didn't really know anything 296 00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:42,960 about the FBI and I've learned quite a lot over the past few 297 00:12:42,960 --> 00:12:44,520 years, so. I imagine so. 298 00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:46,360 All right, So just quick political background, you grew 299 00:12:46,360 --> 00:12:49,640 up at you in Ohio and then you went to New York. 300 00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:51,000 NY's a pretty left-leaning place. 301 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:52,720 Seattle obviously very left as well. 302 00:12:53,920 --> 00:12:57,080 You're a registered Democrat, I assume, or you at least vote 303 00:12:57,080 --> 00:12:59,440 that way. I mean, beyond that. 304 00:12:59,440 --> 00:13:01,960 So I was on Barack Obama's national Finance Committee. 305 00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:05,560 I worked on out the vote efforts for Democrats would be kind of 306 00:13:05,560 --> 00:13:08,080 in like the legal boiler rooms on Election Day for voter 307 00:13:08,080 --> 00:13:11,360 rights, like spent a lot of I worked for Jimmy Carter, not as 308 00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:13,000 president. I'm not that old, I'm only 42, 309 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:15,880 but I was going to. Say we're the same age, so yeah. 310 00:13:16,280 --> 00:13:18,360 He has an organization called the Carter Center that works on 311 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:19,840 peace and democracy around the world. 312 00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:22,640 I worked for Jimmy Carter when I was 22, worked on elections in 313 00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:26,280 Ethiopia, Jamaica. So I mean, I dedicated a large 314 00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:29,200 part of my life to this. Would you say it goes far as to 315 00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:32,040 say not just a an advocate but also like an activist in that 316 00:13:32,040 --> 00:13:33,560 realm? I was a believer. 317 00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:36,600 I was a believer in democracy. I think it's. 318 00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:41,120 And what's funny is I think that when you and I were growing up 319 00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:43,640 and like I say, we're we're within an age, you know, an hour 320 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:47,680 one year or so of each other. I think that everybody kind of 321 00:13:47,680 --> 00:13:51,200 agreed on what the values looked like, what America sort of was 322 00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:53,680 as as an idea. And we disagreed with how to get 323 00:13:53,680 --> 00:13:55,720 better about it. That was the kind of a thing. 324 00:13:55,720 --> 00:13:57,120 And I wasn't a political kid growing up. 325 00:13:57,120 --> 00:13:58,920 Like my parents didn't care. And I didn't care until I was 326 00:13:58,920 --> 00:14:01,240 probably in my 30s when I started having kids. 327 00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:05,280 But essentially, we all kind of agreed on the fundamental, you 328 00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:07,160 know, this is a good place. We can make it better. 329 00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:09,600 We should be striving towards a better ideal, a platonic ideal 330 00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:12,240 of what America is. And now it feels like there's 331 00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:14,920 such a big divide down the middle that people look at each 332 00:14:14,920 --> 00:14:17,080 other and like, you're an enemy. You're not even part of the same 333 00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:19,080 clan as me or the tribe or whatever it is. 334 00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:21,680 I agree. And I also think that like, I 335 00:14:21,720 --> 00:14:25,160 think we could get back to the place we were at as children. 336 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:28,520 But I believe, and it's so hard to say all this because I feel 337 00:14:28,520 --> 00:14:30,960 like I sound like a conspiracy theorist, but I'm not like I 338 00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:33,640 believe that we really live in an oligarchy where corporations 339 00:14:33,640 --> 00:14:37,840 dictate the laws, dictate who's elected, dictate what 340 00:14:38,160 --> 00:14:42,000 politicians are focused on. And then, you know, the fallout 341 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:44,880 is kind of we divide ourselves among these issues that like, if 342 00:14:44,880 --> 00:14:48,880 you look at like transgendered kids, that is probably less than 343 00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:52,680 5000 kids in America. And it dominates so much 344 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:54,360 political conversation. Yep. 345 00:14:54,560 --> 00:14:56,000 And I would much rather have the right. 346 00:14:56,520 --> 00:14:59,080 Yeah, it's a right wing boogeyman and it's a left wing 347 00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:01,960 talking point, and they're both they're both feeding into media 348 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:04,000 frenzy on both sides. A. 100% right. 349 00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:06,880 It's like if you look at like just the ink that is built, the 350 00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:09,440 time that is built on things that are distracting us from 351 00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:11,680 like making sure our kids are educated and fed. 352 00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:13,640 Yes. Right, which is? 353 00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:16,040 The basic things and that they learn how to read. 354 00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:18,000 Yes. And I don't know if you did. 355 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:20,880 I mean, when I was 817 years old, one of the, the programs 356 00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:22,440 that was part of I went to a Jesuit high school. 357 00:15:22,440 --> 00:15:24,720 So which actually turns out to be extremely liberal at this 358 00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:27,000 point. They're, they're like 359 00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:29,000 communists. They, they all like Mark, They, 360 00:15:29,080 --> 00:15:31,240 they like what's called liberation theology, which is a, 361 00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:33,600 a Marxist ideology that works its way into Catholicism. 362 00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:37,560 And amusingly enough, like I, I think very smart. 363 00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:41,320 We had a 500 hour minimum volunteer requirement to 364 00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:43,520 graduate. And so I spent a bunch of time 365 00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:46,240 in inner City Schools in Dallas, TX, teaching, you know, 5th and 366 00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:48,880 6th graders how to read Cat in the Hat. 367 00:15:49,400 --> 00:15:51,560 And when I was in 5th and 6th grade, we were studying and 368 00:15:51,560 --> 00:15:55,040 analyzing the Lord of the Rings as literature, as allegory. 369 00:15:55,440 --> 00:15:58,080 And I just look at the, the, the differential and the 370 00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:01,080 opportunities that that's going to afford those people is it's 371 00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:04,000 staggering at, at 5th and 6th grade that you're, you're 372 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:05,760 sounding out words that are 3 letters. 373 00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:08,640 It's really horrifying and it's not something politicians ever 374 00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:10,720 focus on. And that was 20 years ago. 375 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:12,480 Yeah. And I'm certain it's worse. 376 00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:14,440 I mean, I've just seen what it looks like. 377 00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:16,200 I've seen writers. I mean, I'm sure you have, too. 378 00:16:16,360 --> 00:16:18,760 You go out there and you read what are reasonable 379 00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:20,720 publications. And the grammatical errors and 380 00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:23,720 the weak sentence structure and the things that, you know, you 381 00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:25,520 should know how to critically work through are just. 382 00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:27,560 They're everywhere. And my wife is always like, God, 383 00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:30,080 we need an editor. Like do people not pay editors 384 00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:32,160 anymore? Well, and it goes into media, 385 00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:35,800 right, which is, you know, like our journalists are supposed to 386 00:16:35,800 --> 00:16:38,760 be the defenders of of democracy at the end of the day, right, to 387 00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:40,080 try to transfer. Cheerleaders. 388 00:16:41,520 --> 00:16:44,160 Well, 22 media companies own all the media, right? 389 00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:45,800 Like that's it. It's that's it. 390 00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:48,960 So you'll find this funny. I spent about four or five hours 391 00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:51,120 last night in a space, Twitter Spaces. 392 00:16:51,400 --> 00:16:53,480 And, and I like try to cut down the middle. 393 00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:55,120 I always try to be fair. And so people always want to 394 00:16:55,120 --> 00:16:57,360 bring me these like wild conspiracy theories, which I 395 00:16:57,360 --> 00:16:58,920 despise. Like, there are things that are 396 00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:01,080 true that are evil. There's no question about it. 397 00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:03,000 And they go after good people. And we're going to get into your 398 00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:06,119 story very shortly. But what I also find is that 399 00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:08,400 there's some people that have some wild ideas like this lady's 400 00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:11,319 like, you know, would you agree that Trump is still really the 401 00:17:11,319 --> 00:17:14,359 president and that Joe Biden is actually, it's like, no, I just 402 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:16,760 they go, you know, she gave about a paragraph long thing on 403 00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:18,079 the phone. And so I'm listening and I'm 404 00:17:18,079 --> 00:17:19,319 listening and I'm like, Oh my God. 405 00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:21,480 And at the end of it, they go, you know, what's your reaction 406 00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:23,119 to that? And I go, all of that is false. 407 00:17:24,079 --> 00:17:26,319 That's my only reaction. It's just nonsense. 408 00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:31,240 It is, but like it's it is. And like I understand in some 409 00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:33,840 ways why people go there. It's ludicrous. 410 00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:36,480 It's crazy. But like then they go on Twitter 411 00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:39,240 and they're like the Twitter Files, which are true, right? 412 00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:41,560 And I don't think that that you know me, Donald Trump is not 413 00:17:41,560 --> 00:17:42,920 president. He did not win the election but 414 00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:43,520 like. Of course not. 415 00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:45,680 No, no, I agree. But did like, did the public 416 00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:47,920 like was the public square, which is the Internet 417 00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:50,720 manipulated for sure A. 100%. Right. 418 00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:53,200 And so you just you help people feed into those conspiracies. 419 00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:57,040 Well, moreover, I there they're looking for that unifying thread 420 00:17:57,040 --> 00:17:59,520 when I always tell people that petty corruption usually is a 421 00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:02,880 bunch of people doing the same sort of things, but not because 422 00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:04,640 they're coordinated, just because they're lousy people and 423 00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:06,040 they have low ethics and low morals. 424 00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:07,880 And so they just sort of align with these goals. 425 00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:09,800 And and if they are ideologically aligned and a lot 426 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:12,400 of them are, then we end up pushing towards a direction. 427 00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:15,240 But it's not like a bunch of guys like we saw in The X-Files. 428 00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:18,720 It's not, you know, 29 guys that, you know, wear overcoats 429 00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:20,480 and smoke cigarettes in the backroom in the dark. 430 00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:23,160 That's not what happens. But it does feel like that. 431 00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:25,040 And then when you start talking about how these companies kind 432 00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:28,120 of do have a lot of, you know, a massive hand, they're not just 433 00:18:28,120 --> 00:18:29,840 putting a thumb on the scale, they're putting their whole arm 434 00:18:29,840 --> 00:18:31,840 on it and they're they're tilting it. 435 00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:33,920 All right, so let's get into your story. 436 00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:35,520 How far back do you want to go? And you can tell me the 437 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:37,320 beginning because I'm sure you're the expert at where to 438 00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:39,000 start. Well I guess I mean I think like 439 00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:43,760 a reasonable place to start is April 2nd 2022 weeks into the 440 00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:46,720 pandemic? My husband and I are in Seattle. 441 00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:51,760 We have our 4 little girls. The baby was I think 8 months 442 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:53,800 and she's little. Our oldest was 5. 443 00:18:54,760 --> 00:18:57,840 My company had just kind of like exploded into 1000 pieces 444 00:18:57,840 --> 00:19:01,320 because the Riveter had in real life Co working in events across 445 00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:03,520 the country. And so everything came to a 446 00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:05,000 screech. We lost all of our revenue 447 00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:08,360 overnight. We were the lucky recipients of 448 00:19:08,360 --> 00:19:11,640 APPP loan which allowed us to keep functioning. 449 00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:13,920 But do you? Do you want to do you mind 450 00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:15,440 telling people, because there's a lot of people that don't 451 00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:17,600 understand what the PPP loans did and I've worked some of 452 00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:20,520 those fraud cases explain kind of what the mechanics of that 453 00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:22,920 was and why we why those were probably a good thing. 454 00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:26,800 So when this oh, the shutdown orders kind of flowed throughout 455 00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:29,000 the country and real life businesses had to shut down. 456 00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:33,800 And so the business that I had built where I had leased spaces 457 00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:36,320 and turned them into event and Co working spaces and then had 458 00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:39,080 memberships, my members stopped paying. 459 00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:41,600 I still had to pay my landlords, right. 460 00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:44,880 And so my business was shut down by virtue of a government act. 461 00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:47,640 And so, you know, right or wrong, there's lots of politics 462 00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:48,520 to it. It happened 100. 463 00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:50,080 Percent. And so the government said, 464 00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:52,200 well, we don't want these businesses to disappear forever. 465 00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:54,440 At the time, if you remember, at the beginning of COVID, I think 466 00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:57,000 we all thought it was a short horizon event, you know, so the 467 00:19:57,000 --> 00:19:58,160 PPP. Two weeks. 468 00:19:59,320 --> 00:20:03,680 So the PPP loan was meant to be a short term loan to keep 469 00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:06,440 businesses afloat. The terms of it were incredibly 470 00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:10,720 generous and that if you used the loans to pay your existing 471 00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:13,880 staff and your existing operational expenses, and they 472 00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:15,840 were, they were divided out in a certain way by the government, 473 00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:17,880 then you would get the loan forgiven. 474 00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:21,120 If you. It was like 60% for payroll. 475 00:20:21,120 --> 00:20:23,400 As long as 40% went to your overhead, your rent or whatever, 476 00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:24,920 then you were good. Exactly, Yeah. 477 00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:27,360 And you had to use it within 8 or 24 weeks. 478 00:20:27,360 --> 00:20:29,920 You got to choose the term. And then if you, if there were, 479 00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:32,160 if you used it for other business expenses, they wouldn't 480 00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:35,000 be forgiven and you would have to pay the pay that loan back at 481 00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:37,480 like a 1% interest rate over 5 or 10 years. 482 00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:40,800 I mean, very generous terms for for companies dealing with a 483 00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:43,280 very dramatic act that we've never seen in our lifetime. 484 00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:45,280 Where did the where did the money come from? 485 00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:47,280 Where they coming from? Individual banks that were being 486 00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:49,040 underwritten by the government? Or is the government just 487 00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:50,200 straight right? Like where did this money come 488 00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:51,400 from? The money came from individual 489 00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:53,000 banks that were being underwritten by the government. 490 00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:54,120 But where does all money come from? 491 00:20:54,120 --> 00:20:54,720 We just. Printed. 492 00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:56,200 Yeah, we just printed. Exactly. 493 00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:59,120 Yeah, yeah, just just quantitative easing and solve 494 00:20:59,120 --> 00:21:01,120 the problem, ease the problem. OK. 495 00:21:01,120 --> 00:21:03,160 So so you got a payroll protection? 496 00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:06,640 We're dealing with this. My husband had worked at Amazon 497 00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:10,240 Web Services, which is a subsidiary of Amazon, that it's 498 00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:12,360 where the Internet lives. So the Internet lives in these 499 00:21:12,360 --> 00:21:16,040 big data warehouses that exist on this planet, not in the 500 00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:18,240 cloud. And my husband worked in real 501 00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:21,160 estate and he helped scout real estate locations that would be 502 00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:24,920 OK for data centers and helped work when Amazon built them 503 00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:26,920 themselves, would help build them. 504 00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:30,600 He had been fired from Amazon in June of 20/19. 505 00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:33,360 He was told he was fired after seven years for yelling at a 506 00:21:33,360 --> 00:21:36,280 vendor. Amazon is a very political place 507 00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:38,000 is all I can say. Yeah, my kind of guy. 508 00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:39,360 Sometimes you got to yell at people I don't know. 509 00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:40,560 I mean it. Yeah. 510 00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:43,680 And it was shortly after my husband had been working on the 511 00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:47,800 Amazons Jedi bid for their $10 billion cloud contract. 512 00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:50,080 You want to tell people a little bit about what that is, because 513 00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:53,240 I think it's very relevant. Yeah, so I didn't really know 514 00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:57,360 this about Amazon, but so Amazon, we all think Amazon.com 515 00:21:57,360 --> 00:21:59,880 where we buy all of our things on the Internet is like the big 516 00:21:59,880 --> 00:22:01,840 money maker and why Amazon is so successful. 517 00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:04,760 It's not actually. Their retail business is a money 518 00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:07,320 loser. However, their cloud business 519 00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:10,000 where they sell Internet space is where they make all of their 520 00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:12,840 money. And Amazon Web Services biggest 521 00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:15,680 clients are you and me as taxpayers. 522 00:22:16,120 --> 00:22:22,880 Amazon stores the data for the FBI, the CIA, the National 523 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:25,280 Security Agency and various other government agencies. 524 00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:27,080 And DoD, I believe as well, right? 525 00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:31,760 And DoD and Amazon makes massive profit, billions of dollars from 526 00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:35,480 the government. And at the time my husband was 527 00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:40,080 fired, Amazon was trying to win a $10 billion contract from the 528 00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:41,920 Department of Defense. Yeah, that's B. 529 00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:44,200 That's ten billion with AB folks. 530 00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:47,160 That's a big time money stuff and that's just one of these 531 00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:48,600 contracts that we're talking. About it's 1. 532 00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:53,760 And in fact, like if you look at Amazon's stock, in 2013, Amazon 533 00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:57,840 Web Services won a $600 million CIA contract and that forever 534 00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:00,480 changed the trajectory of Jeff Bezos life and company. 535 00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:03,560 The Amazon stock started going up and up and up and up for the 536 00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:06,680 next 7 years because of that CIA contract. 537 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:10,960 So anyway, my husband had been fired, but that was fine. 538 00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:13,840 He had been planning on leaving while he worked at Amazon. 539 00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:17,400 He had set up a new company and take an investment, which his 540 00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:21,480 employment contract explicitly allowed him to do, which is. 541 00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:24,080 And this is like the terms of his of his termination or NDA or 542 00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:26,280 whatever were allowing. Him like his employment contract 543 00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:28,640 that he signed way back in 2012 was 10 pages. 544 00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:32,520 It was Amazon's OG contract in the 1990s when it was a startup. 545 00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:35,120 And one of the things that allows you to do is like start a 546 00:23:35,120 --> 00:23:38,240 company and seek investment, as long as the investor is not also 547 00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:40,840 an investor in Amazon. Now this all makes sense if you 548 00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:43,880 think like Jeff Bezos while he was CEO of Amazon, he he bought 549 00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:46,440 the Washington Post, he started Blue Origin, right? 550 00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:48,320 He's doing all sorts of different things and he allowed 551 00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:50,240 his entrepreneurial employees to do the same. 552 00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:52,080 So my husband has set up a company. 553 00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:54,040 He was really excited to go out and work on real estate 554 00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:56,520 development on his own, which is exactly what he did, right? 555 00:23:56,520 --> 00:23:59,440 When he left, Amazon started consulting for various 556 00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:01,880 developers, some of whom were working with Amazon. 557 00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:03,760 But Amazon doesn't sell real estate. 558 00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:06,560 So it wasn't like a competitive thing to Amazon, right? 559 00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:08,040 Amazon just occupies real estate. 560 00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:11,960 So he goes about his life. He's incredibly successful at 561 00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:13,120 this. He's, you know, in his early 562 00:24:13,120 --> 00:24:14,800 40s. He spent 20 years building this 563 00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:16,840 career to do this. And real estate development is 564 00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:19,760 big risk, big money. You know, it's, it's a big 565 00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:21,560 thing. I'm so proud of him. 566 00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:24,320 He's happy. So we're two weeks into the 567 00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:27,200 pandemic. We think, you know, OK, we're 568 00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:29,400 going to have to deal with this mess with my business, but 569 00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:31,320 we're, I'm, I am not someone who gives up. 570 00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:32,680 So I was like, we're going to figure this out. 571 00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:35,640 And my husband's real estate development's fine. 572 00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:37,800 He does industrial real estate development not impacted by 573 00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:39,360 COVID. If impacted at all, it's a 574 00:24:39,360 --> 00:24:44,440 benefit. And then on April 2nd, 2020, at 575 00:24:45,360 --> 00:24:50,520 about 6:40 AM, there was a knock at our door and we had a glass 576 00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:52,600 door. We lived on a very busy St. 577 00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:58,840 It was the first house we'd ever bought and I was up because I 578 00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:00,680 had little kids, so of course I was awake. 579 00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:02,160 Yeah, you've been up for an hour. 580 00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:06,360 Yeah, But generally, I think I've learned that when the FBI 581 00:25:06,360 --> 00:25:08,400 shows up your house to talk to you, they try to catch you off 582 00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:10,520 guard, maybe when you're sleeping, wake you up. 583 00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:13,920 So I go to the front door and I'm like, who is at the door? 584 00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:17,000 And I have a baby on the baby on my hip, just in her diaper. 585 00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:18,840 But I'm like, did something happen overnight? 586 00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:20,080 Like, is this the health authority? 587 00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:22,320 Is like, is it the apocalypse? What is going on? 588 00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:23,160 Right. Right. 589 00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:25,120 Because, yeah, we got to put ourselves in that mindset. 590 00:25:25,120 --> 00:25:28,960 So this is April of 2020. We have just started doing the 591 00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:30,600 lockdowns for, what, 2 1/2, three weeks? 592 00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:33,000 There were signs. And so my my team was on 593 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:34,760 surveillance, driving around. I was in Albuquerque when it all 594 00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:36,000 shut down. And we had a little baby as 595 00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:37,520 well. And I remember looking, it was 596 00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:39,240 like, yeah, is this the zombie apocalypse? 597 00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:41,920 Is that what's happening next? There's signs that are flashing. 598 00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:44,240 There's like trash blowing in the streets because nobody's 599 00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:46,280 walking around. Everybody's got a mask on 600 00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:48,320 hiding. So, yeah, this would have been a 601 00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:50,600 really, really wild time to have this experience that you're 602 00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:55,160 about to have, having been on the other side of the door and 603 00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:57,160 having been waiting for that. You know, I've been waiting for 604 00:25:57,160 --> 00:26:00,480 that knock for the last year or so and I'm and I'm hopeful it 605 00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:01,960 doesn't happen. And I know Phil has the same 606 00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:04,840 thoughts about it. Sometimes it's like it's not 607 00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:06,520 good when the FBI is at your door. 608 00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:11,280 So, so when you did they did you hear them banging do an FBI 609 00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:12,520 search warrant or what were they saying? 610 00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:14,040 Oh, they were not there for a search warrant. 611 00:26:14,360 --> 00:26:16,440 OK, not this time. But Kyle, they came in. 612 00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:18,720 No, but not this time. Yeah, I I read that in. 613 00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:22,640 So they, you know, I kind of like, I motioned to the door, 614 00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:24,840 like I shrugged my shoulders because I didn't feel like 615 00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:26,560 opening the door in the pandemic. 616 00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:30,520 And there was a woman and a man and they didn't have on the FBI 617 00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:33,360 jackets normally. They did not have masks on. 618 00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:36,080 And the woman took out her badge and it said FBI. 619 00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:39,640 And I was like, you know, I, I was like, I. 620 00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:41,000 Yeah, what planet am I on? Right. 621 00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:43,720 I have no idea what this is. So I kind of crack the door and 622 00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:45,560 they're like, is, is this Carl to Nelson's house? 623 00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:47,400 And like, yes, I'm his wife. And they're like, we'd like to 624 00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:50,240 speak to him. So I'm like, OK, so I call Carl 625 00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:51,600 down. He comes down. 626 00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:52,960 He was awake, but he was upstairs. 627 00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:58,400 And I'm like, the FBI is at the door and he opens the door and 628 00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:00,840 they say, we'd like to talk to you about some Amazon real 629 00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:02,640 estate deals. And at the time, we were like, 630 00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:04,920 oh, OK. You know, like, yeah, he works 631 00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:06,560 at Amazon for a long time. He did a lot of deals. 632 00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:09,360 Like, who knows? But then he he invites them in. 633 00:27:09,360 --> 00:27:11,720 And then I look at him and I think many people would be 634 00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:13,680 terrified to do this, but I'm a lawyer. 635 00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:15,480 And like, there's nothing wrong with saying this. 636 00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:18,960 And I looked at my husband and I said, you cannot talk to these 637 00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:20,680 people without a lawyer. That's right. 638 00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:23,600 No, it's brilliant. And and we just literally 639 00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:25,000 covered that last night in this Twitter space. 640 00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:26,720 This woman says, you know, the FBI knocked on my door. 641 00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:28,400 And I've been advised my whole life you never talked to the 642 00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:29,800 Bureau. You never talked to any cops. 643 00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:32,240 You just ask them, you know, to come back when you have a lawyer 644 00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:36,440 and everybody invites us in. Everybody talks to us. 645 00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:39,240 I don't know why that is. It's uncanny. 646 00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:41,200 I know why I think. You're panicked. 647 00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:43,560 I think you. I think Americans feel like if 648 00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:46,000 they ask for a lawyer, they're saying they did something wrong. 649 00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:48,200 Correct. Asking for a lawyer just means 650 00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:50,920 you have a brain like not to be like, I mean like it's like you 651 00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:56,520 are like, it's just, I mean, but my and my husband says it's OK, 652 00:27:56,520 --> 00:28:00,360 I'll talk to them and I'm like, no, but like, I mean, I can't 653 00:28:00,360 --> 00:28:02,080 get in a fight with him in front of the FBI agency. 654 00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:03,840 No, I mean, well, you could. It'd be. 655 00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:05,440 It would not be. I should have like, he talked to 656 00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:06,440 them. He ended up talking to them for 657 00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:11,320 three minutes and they said, you know, they said, like, do you 658 00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:13,440 know, they asked if they knew this real estate developer named 659 00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:15,440 Brian Watson. My husband's like, I do know 660 00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:17,400 him. And they go, we're going to stop 661 00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:18,600 you right here. This is your chance. 662 00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:21,200 We know everything. And my husband's like, I don't 663 00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:23,000 know, like, I have no idea what you're talking about. 664 00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:25,040 So we're going to stop here. And I will call a lawyer. 665 00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:29,160 And they said we're going to hand you a few pieces of paper. 666 00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:33,000 And then they left. And, you know, we opened the 667 00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:36,200 pieces of paper. One was a letter telling him 668 00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:38,840 that he was the target of a federal investigation in the 669 00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:41,280 Eastern District of Virginia. We are in Seattle. 670 00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:43,640 The Eastern District of Virginia is 3500 miles away. 671 00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:47,880 Yes, that's my old district. And it is the Eastern District 672 00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:50,800 of Virginia is where the government goes to prosecute 673 00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:53,400 Edward Snowden. It's, I mean, it's it's. 674 00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:56,040 Yeah, there's, there's really two or three soft seats for 675 00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:58,240 government prosecution. 1 is the Southern District of New York, 676 00:28:58,240 --> 00:28:59,720 the other one's going to be the District of DC. 677 00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:01,480 And then lastly it's Eastern District of Virginia. 678 00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:04,720 Everything around the around Washington DC is easy so. 679 00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:07,760 And Amazon, because they built data Centers for the CIA and the 680 00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:09,520 NSA. They build them in the Eastern 681 00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:11,080 District of Virginia. A lot of them. 682 00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:14,120 It's called Data Center Alley. Just this weekend, Amazon 683 00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:17,480 announced $35 billion in investment in Virginia for 684 00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:21,520 Amazon Web Services. And so that was the first letter 685 00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:23,680 telling who was the target of a federal investigation. 686 00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:27,680 And then the second one was a letter that said we intend to 687 00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:30,200 seize these bank accounts. And it listed like three bank 688 00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:32,760 accounts. And I'm like, what the hell is 689 00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:33,960 happening? Right. 690 00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:35,880 And then and they said they were going to seize them under civil 691 00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:38,240 asset forfeiture proceedings. Is that what they? 692 00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:40,280 I, my husband was not charged with a crime. 693 00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:42,960 In fact, and it's important, my husband has never been charged 694 00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:44,280 with a crime. This was 2020. 695 00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:46,200 It's 2023. My husband's never been charged 696 00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:47,760 with a crime. So they say they're going to 697 00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:49,840 seize these. And I'm just like, I will admit, 698 00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:54,040 and I'm so disappointed in myself, but this for me started 699 00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:58,240 three weeks of like shock and panic because I think I knew 700 00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:01,000 enough about the legal system to know that this, like, this was 701 00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:02,840 bad. You know that they're like then 702 00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:04,680 it wasn't something we could resolve easily. 703 00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:07,800 Yeah, people can't see it, but producer Phil is nodding. 704 00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:11,920 Phil used to work white collar crimes and and he's ACPA and 705 00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:13,760 he's got some knowledge in this this sphere. 706 00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:16,160 And there's just nothing good about what's about to come down 707 00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:20,160 that we're about to hear about. And the letter said that the you 708 00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:22,320 know that he's a target of a federal investigation in the 709 00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:25,760 Eastern District of, of Virginia related to allegations of 710 00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:27,880 private sector honest services fraud. 711 00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:29,360 And I'm like, what? What's? 712 00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:30,920 The Yeah, say that one more time. 713 00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:36,800 Private Sector Honest Services Fraud It is a federal crime of 714 00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:39,960 depriving your private sector employer of your honest 715 00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:42,120 services. Why? 716 00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:45,040 It turns out it's probably much more likely to be, you know, 717 00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:48,600 involved in that sort of fraud if your employer is enormous and 718 00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:50,960 has a huge contract with DoD and DOJ. 719 00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:53,760 I. Mean we are like, I mean, yeah. 720 00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:57,280 I mean the Eastern, like, in my obsessive research over the many 721 00:30:57,280 --> 00:30:59,520 years, I learned that, like, the Eastern District of Virginia and 722 00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:02,400 prosecutors hadn't prosecuted this since 2001. 723 00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:05,280 Well, So what we're also saying too is that that is the new 724 00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:06,960 game. The game is it doesn't matter 725 00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:10,040 whether it's charges of 1001, which is the lying or false 726 00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:11,760 statements. Those have never been 727 00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:13,720 prosecuted, but they've always been add on charges. 728 00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:15,200 They're also, you know, they're also rants. 729 00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:18,480 They're their modifiers to get pleased, but they're not 730 00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:20,080 something that we individually charge, although we started 731 00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:21,800 doing that. And the same thing with Farrah, 732 00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:23,400 which I don't know if you're familiar with that, the Foreign 733 00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:26,000 Alien Registration Act never charged ever. 734 00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:28,280 Stern letters, that's what they do. 735 00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:31,320 And now they're charging people. So you were right kind of on the 736 00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:34,800 ground floor when the the game started shifting in a lot of 737 00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:36,840 ways and you unfortunately, you guys were the recipient of it. 738 00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:40,560 Yeah. And so that happened. 739 00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:46,520 I, I call, I call the law firm that the Riveter used in 740 00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:49,120 Seattle. I called my lawyer and I said, 741 00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:53,480 my husband needs a lawyer. So I'm like shaking and also 742 00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:55,160 like, do I need to tell my board for the riveter? 743 00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:57,240 And we decided I needed to call my board for the riveter right 744 00:31:57,240 --> 00:31:59,840 away, tell them this is happening, get my husband a 745 00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:04,240 lawyer. And, and then it was. 746 00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:06,560 And then the the next part of our life began. 747 00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:08,320 Yeah. What what kind of lawyer were 748 00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:10,320 you thinking that you needed and was that the right kind of 749 00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:13,640 lawyer when you went? Because a white collar criminal 750 00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:15,720 defense lawyer. And that's what you found, Yes, 751 00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:18,000 yeah, yeah. And so you at least you had 752 00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:19,240 that. I think a lot of people would be 753 00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:20,760 really concerned. It's like, do I need a criminal 754 00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:22,320 defense lawyer? But that would there it's pretty 755 00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:24,320 specialized because you're talking about white collar fraud 756 00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:26,920 and and a lot of people don't do that kind of work. 757 00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:29,560 It's kind of technical. I have to imagine and it's. 758 00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:32,200 Former prosecutors who do it. That makes sense. 759 00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:35,040 Which is the people you want to be fair, That's who you want. 760 00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:36,240 People who sat in the other chair. 761 00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:39,960 It is, but it's just so, I mean, this revolving door between 762 00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:43,680 people who prosecute and hold the white glove of the law and 763 00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:45,840 then they go defend people. It's just and they're, they're 764 00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:47,120 all friends. They're all buddies. 765 00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:49,920 Like it's it's a game. It is a game and somebody was 766 00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:51,800 telling me this the other day that owned a big company and 767 00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:55,080 they said no matter whether I win or lose, the lawyers all win 768 00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:57,800 every time. I was just emailing Jeff Bezos 769 00:32:57,800 --> 00:32:59,640 about this yesterday. I emailed Jeff Bezos a lot. 770 00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:02,960 I'll I'll get him later, but I just take it upon myself to do 771 00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:06,280 it. So anyway, that's the. 772 00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:08,120 That's the thing though, right? Like, they all win. 773 00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:10,120 They're all going to litigate, they're all going to get their 774 00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:10,680 hourlies. Oh. 775 00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:12,640 Yeah. And it's just, you know, it's, 776 00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:16,120 it's, it's shocking. So we didn't really understand 777 00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:17,440 what my husband was even accused of. 778 00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:19,480 Because when you say private sector honest services fraud, 779 00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:20,920 it's kind of vague and ambiguous. 780 00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:25,960 So my husband's lawyers called the prosecutors in Virginia. 781 00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:33,480 And, you know, between April and May, it was very clear that what 782 00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:36,960 was happening was that my husband was accused of taking 783 00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:40,600 kickbacks on real estate deals. So essentially, the government 784 00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:44,960 said that he steered Amazon real estate deals to a developer in 785 00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:47,040 exchange for kickbacks. Got it. 786 00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:51,080 That did not happen. And I can explain what my 787 00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:55,000 husband did do, but what was very clear was that my husband, 788 00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:57,360 there wasn't a conversation. My husband was being accused of 789 00:33:57,360 --> 00:34:00,560 a crime. There was no, there was no what 790 00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:02,440 happened. You know what didn't happen? 791 00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:04,520 It was like you're accused of a crime, you committed a crime and 792 00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:06,000 you are going to plead guilty to a crime. 793 00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:11,159 And I learned between April and May and June, the set of tools 794 00:34:11,159 --> 00:34:13,679 that prosecutors have when they want you to plead guilty to a 795 00:34:13,679 --> 00:34:18,120 crime. And what they did, you know, the 796 00:34:18,159 --> 00:34:22,760 FBI actually executed a national operation a day on April 2nd, 2 797 00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:26,400 weeks into the pandemic for Amazon, which I, I know now 798 00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:30,880 because we learned many years later that it was actually 799 00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:32,960 Amazon that had accused my husband of a crime. 800 00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:36,320 It was Amazon who hired a former federal prosecutor in the 801 00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:39,239 Eastern District of Virginia and paid him millions of dollars to 802 00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:42,080 lobby his former colleagues. His name is Patrick Stokes, he 803 00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:44,360 works at Gibson Dunn. He directly called up the then 804 00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:48,000 US Attorney Zachary Terwilliger set up a meeting before the 805 00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:51,159 first meeting Pat Stokes sent the DOJ an e-mail saying our 806 00:34:51,159 --> 00:34:55,360 first priority is asset restraint and recovery went in 807 00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:59,720 pitched A20 that you pitch a crime like in a 20 decks A20 808 00:34:59,720 --> 00:35:04,600 slide deck PDF they pitched a crime we got to we. 809 00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:06,320 We got to pump the brakes on that one and go through that 810 00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:08,360 just a little bit slower. So people hear that because I 811 00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:11,600 think it's really interesting when we work criminal matters 812 00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:14,480 that are not white collar because there are not millions 813 00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:16,640 of dollars in play. It's, you know, some little girl 814 00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:20,400 being trafficked by MS13. It is, you know, some guy that's 815 00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:22,840 running a brothel in DC. We don't pitch the crime. 816 00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:25,080 The crime comes in, there's an allegation or information that 817 00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:27,040 happened. We go find out who did it and 818 00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:28,360 then we sit on them, figure out who they are. 819 00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:30,400 White collar is a totally different animal. 820 00:35:30,720 --> 00:35:33,280 And interestingly enough, it probably is the place that the 821 00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:35,120 Bureau could be the most effective because there's a lot 822 00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:38,200 of fraud against the government. But it's a complicated and it 823 00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:40,880 takes a lot of patience. It's not it's not something for 824 00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:41,960 me. I can already tell you that 825 00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:43,240 right now, like that's not my world. 826 00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:47,520 But the idea that somebody's going to come in and lobby DOJ 827 00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:50,960 and lobby the Bureau to take on an investigation with like 828 00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:53,040 here's the elements that we're going to go after and here's our 829 00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:56,320 targets because here's why we need that on a space. 830 00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:59,320 Seems that feels very corrupt from the positions when I used 831 00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:01,120 to work crimes because that's not the way that we would get 832 00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:02,600 them. Do you want to know something? 833 00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:04,280 I do. It's shocking. 834 00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:08,000 And, and again, like I have to emphasize, we knew none of this 835 00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:10,680 in 2020. This was slowly pieced together 836 00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:16,600 in 2021 and 2022 after a lot of work in in figuring things out. 837 00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:22,400 But the night before Amazon's lawyers met with DOJ, they 838 00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:25,560 officially broke a contract with the real estate developer, Brian 839 00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:27,920 Watson. And per the terms of the 840 00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:32,920 contract, the only way that they could break the contract is if 841 00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:35,560 Brian Watson, the real estate developer, was found guilty or 842 00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:37,680 pled guilty to ACEO to a felony crime. 843 00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:42,200 Amazon did not tell that to the Department of Justice. 844 00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:44,240 That is very, very important though. 845 00:36:44,240 --> 00:36:46,840 So what we are playing here is that there is probably what 846 00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:48,200 millions or is it billions of dollars? 847 00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:49,960 Over 100 million in damages. OK. 848 00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:53,720 So $100 million in play. And the way that they can get 849 00:36:53,720 --> 00:36:57,120 out of this contract is that there has to be the people that 850 00:36:57,120 --> 00:36:59,640 are involved that have to plead guilty to a felony and it shows. 851 00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:02,200 And that that obviously is going to be bad faith negotiations and 852 00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:03,400 that's how they're going to walk away from it. 853 00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:06,240 But otherwise this is this is otherwise a good contract. 854 00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:10,160 Oh, and it's it's related to data centers that Amazon kept. 855 00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:13,280 They do not allege they overpaid for the data centers. 856 00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:15,840 They are now selling cloud computing to the government from 857 00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:17,200 the data Centers for billions of dollars. 858 00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:20,080 Amazon alleges no financial harm. 859 00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:22,880 Got it. They didn't lose anything, they 860 00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:24,600 just were trying. To they gained. 861 00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:27,280 Wow. All right. 862 00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:30,160 So you're finding out that these meetings are happening. 863 00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:33,240 DOJ has gone out there, done their 20 deck slide, pitch said. 864 00:37:33,240 --> 00:37:35,360 This is our original targets. And you know what the targets 865 00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:36,960 were at this point is that was that, Yeah. 866 00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:39,280 The targets were Brian Watson, the real estate developer. 867 00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:42,800 So and the Amazon did a national operation on April 2nd. 868 00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:46,200 An hour after their national operation, the termination 869 00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:48,120 notice was delivered to Brian Watson that he'd been 870 00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:51,280 terminated. Now he worked for Amazon Web 871 00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:52,840 Services as well. He was a real estate developer 872 00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:54,240 that built data centers in Amazon. 873 00:37:54,240 --> 00:37:57,440 So he was Amazon came to his development company and 874 00:37:57,440 --> 00:37:59,480 contracted to to base. Yes. 875 00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:01,320 That right? Yep. 876 00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:02,240 Yep. Exactly. 877 00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:04,320 And Amazon only paid monthly rent. 878 00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:08,480 They don't own the data centers like so and they don't allow. 879 00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:10,440 It's so crazy, but so we didn't know any of them. 880 00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:11,920 At the time, yeah. And what and what was your, what 881 00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:13,560 was your husband's connection to Brian Watson at? 882 00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:15,520 That time, so my husband worked on Amazon's real estate team. 883 00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:18,600 When Brian Watson's team got these real estate development 884 00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:22,280 deals, however, my husband had no signing authority. 12 people 885 00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:23,800 above him approved every contract. 886 00:38:24,240 --> 00:38:27,720 What happened is somebody who made money from Brian Watson 887 00:38:27,720 --> 00:38:31,480 from North Star, the real estate developer, months later went to 888 00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:34,200 my husband and said you should build a business that competes 889 00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:36,800 with Brian Watson and Northstar, like you know more about data 890 00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:39,440 centers and Brian Watson does. I'll give you the, I'll give you 891 00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:41,960 the seed capital to do it. I'll invest in your company. 892 00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:46,200 So he, so my husband got a lawyer who you should also know. 893 00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:48,320 The lawyer is a target of the DO JS investigation. 894 00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:50,800 They're saying this lawyer, this lawyer is part of this criminal 895 00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:53,720 real estate gang. And so the lawyer, you know, so 896 00:38:53,720 --> 00:38:55,400 the lawyer sets my husband's company up. 897 00:38:55,840 --> 00:38:57,720 The investor puts money in the company. 898 00:38:57,720 --> 00:39:00,720 It's legally documented. Like there are lawyers 899 00:39:00,720 --> 00:39:02,680 everywhere and legal documentation everywhere. 900 00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:06,200 Like I have investors in the Riveter, including Amazon's for 901 00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:08,480 Jeff Bezos's first investor is my biggest investor. 902 00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:13,560 And my husband has investors in his company like and again, my 903 00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:16,720 husband's employment contract explicitly says while he worked 904 00:39:16,720 --> 00:39:19,480 at Amazon, he could start a company and seek investment from 905 00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:22,120 anyone as long as they weren't an investor in Amazon. 906 00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:24,720 OK. Just out of curiosity, so this 907 00:39:24,720 --> 00:39:28,160 was all served in April, May and you're dealing with it in the 908 00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:30,520 the early part of 2020 or the mid part of 2020? 909 00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:34,320 He separated in 2019 from Amazon, correct. 910 00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:37,280 And so when are they alleging this crime took place? 911 00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:46,000 20/17/2018. 2017 and 2018, so 2, you know, 2-3 years prior or two 912 00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:50,080 years prior to him leaving and now we are working 2-3 years in 913 00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:50,960 arrears. Yeah. 914 00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:53,240 And it's 2023. Yeah. 915 00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:55,280 So and that just tells you how long this has been working 916 00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:56,280 because that's how long it takes. 917 00:39:56,280 --> 00:39:58,040 Like you got to go out there and structure all these things 918 00:39:58,040 --> 00:39:59,920 together. So this is a long plan unfolding 919 00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:02,600 and they picked the Covic pandemic to to roll it out. 920 00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:06,080 On this is actually crazy. It's not that long. 921 00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:08,160 This is something that I just am always blown away by. 922 00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:13,520 Amazon called DOJ in early February 2020. 923 00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:17,400 They had their first meeting February 20th, 2020 and there 924 00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:20,200 were target letters and a national operation on April 2nd, 925 00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:22,680 2020. It's because Amazon needed to 926 00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:25,120 give notice of the termination of their contracts, so they 927 00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:28,320 needed the FBI to go out and do their national knock and talk. 928 00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:31,040 That isn't. That's truly incredible. 929 00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:33,920 There are e-mail, there are emails showing that Amazon was 930 00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:36,160 working with the DOJ on the timing of taking the 931 00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:39,560 investigation overt. Now you've done you've told me 932 00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:40,840 you had a big TikTok following on this. 933 00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:42,440 Did you expose any of your documents on? 934 00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:44,320 Is there places where people can kind of check your? 935 00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:46,680 Yeah, so I'm actually going to put all of. 936 00:40:46,720 --> 00:40:50,040 So this is something I think that is also wild that I never 937 00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:52,120 understood. So had my husband ever been 938 00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:55,280 charged with a crime, we would have never known any of the 939 00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:57,840 things I'm telling you today because we never would have seen 940 00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:00,920 any communications between the Department of Justice and Amazon 941 00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:03,920 the accuser. And you can tell that Amazon DOJ 942 00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:06,040 never thought anyone would see these emails because. 943 00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:07,640 That's how it works. Crazy. 944 00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:11,120 I mean, the emails are crazy. And like, like, here's just a 945 00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:14,440 quick example. Like Amazon asked for civil 946 00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:17,480 forfeiture. The FBI agent working the case 947 00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:19,560 said, can you just send me over the employee bank account 948 00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:21,280 numbers from when they got their direct deposits? 949 00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:24,120 And Amazon, Amazon's lawyer was like, you're going to need to 950 00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:26,240 send us a grand jury subpoena for that so that we don't get in 951 00:41:26,240 --> 00:41:28,880 trouble. And then boom boom boom, it was 952 00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:31,160 done. So what's wild is Phil and I 953 00:41:31,160 --> 00:41:33,640 have always said that there's a lot of cockiness, there's a lot 954 00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:36,680 of smug people that work in the Bureau when they're doing these 955 00:41:36,680 --> 00:41:38,200 things. And the emails that go back and 956 00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:40,440 forth would amaze people that people are willing to put it in 957 00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:41,960 writing. They would go, oh, they would 958 00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:43,760 never write that down. It's like, oh, you don't know 959 00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:44,840 the colleagues that we've worked with. 960 00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:48,640 There are some absolutely unbelievable things that if any 961 00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:50,720 lawyer had sat there and knew that they were out there, if you 962 00:41:50,720 --> 00:41:53,400 just went, you know, digging for a gold mine, there's gold in all 963 00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:54,840 the mines. They're all gold mines. 964 00:41:55,120 --> 00:42:01,640 It's all full, crazy and pretty. Yeah, pretty amazing stuff that 965 00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:02,920 it's out there and and it's in writing. 966 00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:06,640 It's like it's not denying and. I have no doubt that what you're 967 00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:08,080 saying is true. That's what's so funny to me 968 00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:10,520 because you're talking to somebody who 100% would believe 969 00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:13,200 those stories because that's what that's what we assume is 970 00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:14,400 out there. I'm sure there are ways that 971 00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:16,440 they have referred to me and, and to Phil and some of my 972 00:42:16,440 --> 00:42:19,000 buddies that will shock people when they come out. 973 00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:20,800 And I hope they come out in Congress at some point soon. 974 00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:23,760 And yeah, it's just the nature of the beast. 975 00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:26,280 It's like there's just, it's an arrogance, or maybe it's just a 976 00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:29,800 completely, maybe they just don't know that it's ever going 977 00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:32,120 to see the light of day. But we are explicitly told 978 00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:34,760 everything you send in text message, everything you send in 979 00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:37,440 e-mail is discoverable. It's always discoverable. 980 00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:40,000 Yeah, it has to be. It has to be, but I think so. 981 00:42:41,080 --> 00:42:45,360 When someone is accused of federal crime, there's a 98.2% 982 00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:46,760 chance that they will plead guilty. 983 00:42:47,320 --> 00:42:49,720 Not maybe not because they think they're guilty. 984 00:42:49,720 --> 00:42:51,760 Many people don't, right? Because a lot of these white 985 00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:55,280 collar crimes require this very specific intent to defraud 986 00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:58,280 someone. You know, my husband believed he 987 00:42:58,280 --> 00:42:59,840 was abiding by his employment contract. 988 00:42:59,840 --> 00:43:02,320 He went to a lawyer. I mean, there's so many things 989 00:43:02,320 --> 00:43:04,440 here, right? And Amazon wasn't harmed. 990 00:43:04,440 --> 00:43:06,840 They benefited. Like this is all, it's wild, but 991 00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:11,200 98.2% of people plead guilty. And, you know, having lived 992 00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:13,520 through what prosecutors can do to you, I understand why. 993 00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:17,680 Like what they did to us. So they tried to get my husband 994 00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:20,920 to plead guilty to a crime. It was always very unclear, like 995 00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:22,400 specifically what they wanted him to say. 996 00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:24,240 But anyway, my husband's like, I'm not pleading guilty to 997 00:43:24,240 --> 00:43:25,320 something. I've committed no crime. 998 00:43:25,960 --> 00:43:28,400 Yeah, that's the right. But The thing is, so few people, 999 00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:30,240 they're looking down the barrel of whatever the punishment is. 1000 00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:33,120 They're looking at what it's going to cost to, to litigate 1001 00:43:33,720 --> 00:43:37,120 and, and they just go, it's easier for me to just take a, 1002 00:43:37,120 --> 00:43:39,920 you know, a misdemeanor plea deal or something and end up on 1003 00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:41,360 probation for a little while, whatever it may. 1004 00:43:41,520 --> 00:43:44,080 Be the crazy part here is that like they needed a very specific 1005 00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:46,080 thing a felony against Brian Watson this real estate 1006 00:43:46,080 --> 00:43:50,080 developer so they went and they accused I think like 5 people of 1007 00:43:50,080 --> 00:43:51,600 a crime. No one pled guilty. 1008 00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:57,160 So then they, then they, they pulled the trigger on the civil 1009 00:43:57,160 --> 00:44:01,320 forfeiture. So on May 20th, they emptied our 1010 00:44:01,320 --> 00:44:05,200 bank accounts and they didn't just empty my husband, they 1011 00:44:05,200 --> 00:44:07,800 emptied my bank account because we shared money. 1012 00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:14,520 So we literally had no money. And then they also went to our 1013 00:44:14,520 --> 00:44:19,440 lawyers client trust account and seized all of the money we had 1014 00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:22,440 paid our lawyers. Whoa. 1015 00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:26,240 Which we will, you will you will you break it down for layman 1016 00:44:27,720 --> 00:44:30,280 civil asset forfeiture, which I have seen, but I haven't done 1017 00:44:30,280 --> 00:44:32,600 the process on a lot. I understand it's a very 1018 00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:35,440 powerful tool and certain things like rego cases, it's great. 1019 00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:37,800 You can do it against transnational organized crime 1020 00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:40,240 organizations and you know, trafficking and gangs. 1021 00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:42,200 They do a lot of that with it. You know, so it's going to be 1022 00:44:42,200 --> 00:44:43,920 ill gotten gains is essentially what they're arguing. 1023 00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:47,360 But kind of break it down for people what they what they do to 1024 00:44:47,360 --> 00:44:49,520 you, because the filing is not against you. 1025 00:44:49,520 --> 00:44:50,800 They don't have to prove a crime against you. 1026 00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:53,840 They go after your. They file essentially that that 1027 00:44:53,840 --> 00:44:56,240 your your assets are part of a criminal. 1028 00:44:56,240 --> 00:44:58,560 Because then your assets don't have due process, which is why 1029 00:44:58,560 --> 00:45:02,560 they do it this way. So when civil forfeiture, the 1030 00:45:02,560 --> 00:45:06,040 United States government on the federal level also, this is in 1031 00:45:06,040 --> 00:45:07,960 all States and most local governments too. 1032 00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:12,920 They can seize your bank accounts, your home, your car, 1033 00:45:12,920 --> 00:45:16,080 your assets on the suspicion of a crime. 1034 00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:18,480 They do not have to charge you with a crime. 1035 00:45:18,600 --> 00:45:22,040 They do not have to prove a crime and once they take it. 1036 00:45:22,520 --> 00:45:25,280 No due process not proved, not in front of a jury of your 1037 00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:28,160 peers, and they're depriving you of more than $20 without a jury 1038 00:45:28,160 --> 00:45:30,360 trial because they didn't file the charges against you. 1039 00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:32,840 They filed against your stuff, which are not people. 1040 00:45:33,120 --> 00:45:37,240 So, yeah, so they just take it and it's a it's a in the case. 1041 00:45:37,320 --> 00:45:39,800 I have gone back through the Eastern District of Virginia and 1042 00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:42,240 I cannot find a single instance in the past thirteen years where 1043 00:45:42,240 --> 00:45:45,040 prosecutors have ever done this in a non drug case. 1044 00:45:45,320 --> 00:45:47,560 Like once again, just it's for Amazon. 1045 00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:50,720 And and that's my experience as well. 1046 00:45:50,720 --> 00:45:53,240 It's almost always like I say, we what we call talk, which is 1047 00:45:53,240 --> 00:45:55,160 transnational organized crime, which is drugs and gangs. 1048 00:45:55,240 --> 00:45:56,800 That's what it is. I mean, it was that's. 1049 00:45:56,800 --> 00:45:58,440 Where they go? It's wild so. 1050 00:45:58,640 --> 00:46:00,880 OK, So what did, what did you guys do? 1051 00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:02,360 Because your bank account gets empty. 1052 00:46:02,360 --> 00:46:04,840 Like that's that's like full panic mode for most people. 1053 00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:07,040 It was full. So I will say we didn't have 1054 00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:08,160 exactly no money. You look, you look. 1055 00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:10,200 Flustered right now because you're reliving some of that, I 1056 00:46:10,200 --> 00:46:12,400 can tell. It's so hard, but devastating 1057 00:46:12,400 --> 00:46:14,840 when we, when we got that first letter that they were going to, 1058 00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:17,000 that they intended to seize the accounts, which first of all, 1059 00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:18,560 our lawyers were like, what is this? 1060 00:46:18,840 --> 00:46:20,960 Like they just take the money or they don't, they intend to seize 1061 00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:24,360 it. So my husband and I both opened 1062 00:46:24,360 --> 00:46:26,880 up new bank accounts and then started putting the money we 1063 00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:28,440 were earning into our new bank accounts. 1064 00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:30,760 So we had like 2 months of earnings when they took our 1065 00:46:30,760 --> 00:46:32,640 money. So we had like a little bit of 1066 00:46:32,640 --> 00:46:34,720 money, but not enough to pay lawyers. 1067 00:46:35,920 --> 00:46:41,520 And So what we did, OK, sorry, this part is always hard for me 1068 00:46:41,520 --> 00:46:43,520 to talk about because it really impacted my kids. 1069 00:46:44,120 --> 00:46:46,640 That's right. And mind you, we got the money 1070 00:46:46,640 --> 00:46:52,400 back 21 months later, but we we sold our home, the home that we 1071 00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:54,360 bought, that we'd like, we'd worked so hard to buy. 1072 00:46:54,960 --> 00:46:59,400 Right. We sold a car, we liquidated 1073 00:46:59,400 --> 00:47:04,320 retirement, we borrowed money from family and friends. 1074 00:47:05,520 --> 00:47:08,360 I think we borrowed like $130,000, which is a lot of 1075 00:47:08,360 --> 00:47:12,480 money we. And it and it means nothing to 1076 00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:15,320 the government to spend $130,000 on litigation like they'll spend 1077 00:47:15,320 --> 00:47:17,360 $10,000 a day just watching you. Yeah. 1078 00:47:17,880 --> 00:47:19,960 People don't understand that like, like you're, you're 1079 00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:22,240 fighting a bottomless pit of money. 1080 00:47:22,680 --> 00:47:24,680 And also my mom would have keep saying like, don't they care 1081 00:47:24,680 --> 00:47:26,640 that you can't feed your kids? And I'm like, they literally 1082 00:47:26,640 --> 00:47:28,120 they don't care. They do not care. 1083 00:47:29,560 --> 00:47:35,400 And then eventually and we, we moved to stay with family 1084 00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:37,040 because we didn't own our home anymore. 1085 00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:43,480 And then eventually I my company wasn't making enough money to 1086 00:47:43,520 --> 00:47:48,640 keep paying me a salary and I had to move away from my family 1087 00:47:48,640 --> 00:47:52,800 and live in a different state and take a different job like 1088 00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:55,560 from my babies. Yeah, so you, so you were gone, 1089 00:47:55,560 --> 00:47:58,920 your husband was with your, your children, which is just insane. 1090 00:47:58,920 --> 00:48:02,240 And so people that listen to me will also know, you know, I sold 1091 00:48:02,240 --> 00:48:03,120 my house. I did the same thing. 1092 00:48:03,120 --> 00:48:04,840 You know, the government basically took my paycheck nine 1093 00:48:04,840 --> 00:48:06,120 months ago. So I, I have that. 1094 00:48:06,120 --> 00:48:07,160 They didn't come after my assets. 1095 00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:09,280 Thank God, but we sold our house. 1096 00:48:09,280 --> 00:48:10,840 I took my kids away from the family and their friends. 1097 00:48:10,840 --> 00:48:12,880 We're living in two bedrooms at my parents house at this moment, 1098 00:48:12,880 --> 00:48:14,280 Like I'm sitting in a, I'm sitting in an RV. 1099 00:48:14,440 --> 00:48:15,920 So I feel you. I feel like everything you're 1100 00:48:15,920 --> 00:48:17,120 saying, like my wife cries at night. 1101 00:48:17,760 --> 00:48:19,680 And the only thing that's made it better is that we're we're 1102 00:48:19,680 --> 00:48:21,440 all together. We're all together in tiny 1103 00:48:21,440 --> 00:48:24,160 quarters. But I keep having to go and do 1104 00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:26,520 weird things in weird places and run around and talk to people 1105 00:48:26,640 --> 00:48:28,320 and, and you got to do what you got to do, but you're away from 1106 00:48:28,320 --> 00:48:29,800 your children and there's nothing worse because it's the 1107 00:48:29,800 --> 00:48:32,240 best time when there's such little, you know, gems and 1108 00:48:32,360 --> 00:48:34,000 they're just having like a little moments, like all the 1109 00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:35,560 time. And you, all you see is like a 1110 00:48:35,560 --> 00:48:37,600 video or a FaceTime of it. It's not the same. 1111 00:48:38,120 --> 00:48:40,200 It's not the same and it's, you know, it's brutal. 1112 00:48:40,560 --> 00:48:42,560 And it's worse for moms. I know it's worse for moms. 1113 00:48:42,840 --> 00:48:44,360 I just. But you know, like The thing is 1114 00:48:44,360 --> 00:48:48,480 like I would have never stopped fighting, nor would my husband 1115 00:48:48,560 --> 00:48:50,720 because we weren't we weren't we weren't going to do this like we 1116 00:48:50,720 --> 00:48:53,920 were not going to let you had because we had not just DOJ 1117 00:48:53,920 --> 00:48:56,280 against us, but Amazon like this is like. 1118 00:48:56,520 --> 00:48:58,960 This is the 2 evil giants. Here's the thing. 1119 00:48:59,080 --> 00:49:01,080 I love you guys. I don't know you, but I love you 1120 00:49:01,080 --> 00:49:02,400 for what you did. I really do. 1121 00:49:02,400 --> 00:49:05,200 Because the number of people that rolled over when this stuff 1122 00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:08,680 happens is 98.2%. It's everybody. 1123 00:49:08,800 --> 00:49:11,640 It's freaking everybody. And there's a small number of 1124 00:49:11,640 --> 00:49:14,640 people that go, this is wrong. And no matter what happens, I'm 1125 00:49:14,640 --> 00:49:16,360 trying to live in a world where my children know that I'm going 1126 00:49:16,360 --> 00:49:19,280 to do the right thing, even though it's incredibly hard. 1127 00:49:20,040 --> 00:49:22,560 So it's. It's simple, but it's not easy 1128 00:49:22,600 --> 00:49:24,920 as my buddy was to say. But it's like, it's really, my 1129 00:49:24,960 --> 00:49:27,680 husband always says this right? Like we've got God at our back, 1130 00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:29,360 right. Like we're right, we're right. 1131 00:49:29,720 --> 00:49:33,480 And so you know, the right right doesn't always win, but you have 1132 00:49:33,480 --> 00:49:35,480 to try. Do you mind if I dig into that 1133 00:49:35,480 --> 00:49:36,760 just for a second? I'm curious, were you always 1134 00:49:36,760 --> 00:49:38,480 spiritual people or did this drive you somewhere? 1135 00:49:38,800 --> 00:49:42,240 So we were both raised spiritually, but we had not 1136 00:49:42,240 --> 00:49:44,720 really gone to church and not talked a lot about our faith as 1137 00:49:44,720 --> 00:49:48,240 married people. And this is just, you know, 1138 00:49:48,240 --> 00:49:48,840 it's. New, right? 1139 00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:52,440 It's new when you find hardship. And then it's like, yeah, what? 1140 00:49:52,440 --> 00:49:53,520 Like who else are you going to turn to? 1141 00:49:53,760 --> 00:49:56,080 There's no one else, right? And so you know, and it is. 1142 00:49:56,120 --> 00:49:58,920 My wife was baptized last year and she had grown up without any 1143 00:49:58,920 --> 00:50:01,840 religion at all. And and she was like, how did I 1144 00:50:01,840 --> 00:50:05,440 not know about this? It's, it's one of the, it's one 1145 00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:06,720 of the only things. It's like you just got to throw 1146 00:50:06,720 --> 00:50:09,400 yourself into God's hands and say, like, I'm not driving this 1147 00:50:09,400 --> 00:50:10,960 train, I'm just riding it. I think I'm doing the right 1148 00:50:10,960 --> 00:50:14,000 thing and. Yeah, And somehow you get, you 1149 00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:16,760 get saved every time, right? Like we should have never 1150 00:50:16,760 --> 00:50:19,600 survived this. Like this should have been very 1151 00:50:19,600 --> 00:50:21,920 easy for them to do to us. Yes. 1152 00:50:22,240 --> 00:50:24,240 But I think there's a bigger purpose to it and the and the 1153 00:50:24,240 --> 00:50:26,520 things keep happening like, you know, this new committee on the 1154 00:50:26,520 --> 00:50:30,120 weaponization of DOJ. You know, I believe that my 1155 00:50:30,120 --> 00:50:34,440 family's story, particularly because we have the emails, is 1156 00:50:34,440 --> 00:50:38,080 like the clearest, simplest example of the weaponization of 1157 00:50:38,080 --> 00:50:41,360 DOJ by corporations and you. Want to testify there? 1158 00:50:41,600 --> 00:50:43,880 I'd be 100% want to testify, absolutely. 1159 00:50:44,400 --> 00:50:46,280 I'm going to I'm going to make that I'm going to work to make 1160 00:50:46,280 --> 00:50:48,320 that happen because I'm making a lot of things happen that I have 1161 00:50:48,320 --> 00:50:50,520 no business being able to do but it. 1162 00:50:50,560 --> 00:50:53,600 But I had Jim Jordan say my name five times on radio last week. 1163 00:50:53,880 --> 00:50:56,440 So those people who listen to, you know, Sean Hannity, which I 1164 00:50:56,440 --> 00:50:58,640 don't always listen to Hannity, but I, I listen to this one to 1165 00:50:58,640 --> 00:51:01,760 hear it because it's like he didn't even get prompted for it. 1166 00:51:01,760 --> 00:51:04,280 And so like we have, you know, you talk about God putting us in 1167 00:51:04,280 --> 00:51:05,400 a place. Phil and I talked about this 1168 00:51:05,400 --> 00:51:08,280 too, probably two years ago almost that there is no reason. 1169 00:51:08,280 --> 00:51:10,200 If I had told people that you and I'd be sitting having this 1170 00:51:10,200 --> 00:51:12,880 conversation in the situations that we're in that we should 1171 00:51:12,880 --> 00:51:14,920 have been able to do this shouldn't exist. 1172 00:51:15,400 --> 00:51:16,920 I agree. And I also think that like for 1173 00:51:16,920 --> 00:51:21,520 me too, I think I can be this really important bridge to like 1174 00:51:22,120 --> 00:51:25,360 maybe help progressives stop just swallowing a lot of stuff 1175 00:51:25,360 --> 00:51:29,160 about the state that we live in that we don't have to it's. 1176 00:51:29,240 --> 00:51:32,680 Not a good, it is not a good pit bull to have #1 And moreover, 1177 00:51:32,680 --> 00:51:35,280 like when you and I grew up, people might joke about the 1178 00:51:35,280 --> 00:51:37,320 government could listen to your phone calls, but they didn't 1179 00:51:37,320 --> 00:51:38,880 know where you were every second of the day. 1180 00:51:39,040 --> 00:51:40,040 They didn't know what you bought. 1181 00:51:40,040 --> 00:51:42,200 They didn't know all the things that you were saying everywhere. 1182 00:51:42,200 --> 00:51:44,560 You were your, your privatest thoughts that you're texting to 1183 00:51:44,560 --> 00:51:45,800 your spouse. Those were not within the 1184 00:51:45,800 --> 00:51:48,240 purview of the government. And now it's assumed that that's 1185 00:51:48,240 --> 00:51:50,160 the case. Yeah, it really is. 1186 00:51:51,200 --> 00:51:53,000 Yeah. I mean, they, the government, we 1187 00:51:53,000 --> 00:51:54,760 know now. I mean, the government 1188 00:51:54,760 --> 00:51:58,840 subpoenaed my husband's emails. They they did come and do a 1189 00:51:58,840 --> 00:52:02,720 search warrant, which was another crazy experience 1190 00:52:02,720 --> 00:52:04,440 because. I'm doing the same thing right 1191 00:52:04,440 --> 00:52:06,680 now because this like this emotionally affects me as well. 1192 00:52:06,680 --> 00:52:08,960 I can, I can. I literally, I literally know 1193 00:52:09,280 --> 00:52:10,800 how you guys feel about things like this. 1194 00:52:10,800 --> 00:52:13,840 It feels hopeless and it feels like an unbelievable betrayal 1195 00:52:14,040 --> 00:52:17,000 when you didn't do anything wrong and then everything just 1196 00:52:17,000 --> 00:52:20,960 goes massively sideways and you think like, why me? 1197 00:52:21,120 --> 00:52:23,160 And I'll tell you why you? It's because you guys had the 1198 00:52:23,160 --> 00:52:24,200 shoulders to be able to handle it. 1199 00:52:24,240 --> 00:52:26,080 Like nobody knows why, but that's why. 1200 00:52:26,360 --> 00:52:28,800 Because you, because you could and someone needed to and it was 1201 00:52:28,800 --> 00:52:31,080 you, unfortunately, but also thankfully. 1202 00:52:31,640 --> 00:52:34,320 Yeah, I mean, but then you have to use it to do something. 1203 00:52:34,320 --> 00:52:36,880 You have to use it. You have to. 1204 00:52:37,480 --> 00:52:40,520 I mean when they came into the search warrant, my mind was 1205 00:52:40,520 --> 00:52:42,960 blown 1000 times over again because they did the search 1206 00:52:42,960 --> 00:52:45,120 warrant two months after they told my husband he was a target 1207 00:52:45,120 --> 00:52:46,600 of an investigation where it's like. 1208 00:52:47,160 --> 00:52:49,400 They do that sometimes. We, I mean, I've seen it before, 1209 00:52:49,400 --> 00:52:51,960 but explain to people what that felt like on your end a bit 1210 00:52:51,960 --> 00:52:54,160 because you're not. Are you in your own house at 1211 00:52:54,160 --> 00:52:56,040 that point or have you sold? It fill in our house in Seattle, 1212 00:52:56,040 --> 00:52:58,360 because this is like 10 days after they took the money. 1213 00:52:58,360 --> 00:53:01,120 Like it took us a few months to like realize, Oh my God, we have 1214 00:53:01,120 --> 00:53:02,320 to sell our house. We're not getting the money 1215 00:53:02,320 --> 00:53:06,040 back, which it you have to litigate to get your money back, 1216 00:53:06,040 --> 00:53:08,400 which we did. But anyway, they show up at our 1217 00:53:08,480 --> 00:53:11,280 it's June 5th and we thought they were there. 1218 00:53:11,640 --> 00:53:14,160 It was June 5th again. It was before 7 AMI am again 1219 00:53:14,160 --> 00:53:16,720 awake with the baby on my hip and there is not a knock on the 1220 00:53:16,720 --> 00:53:22,920 door. It is a Bang, Bang Bang and I I 1221 00:53:22,920 --> 00:53:25,120 mean. You know right then too, I'm 1222 00:53:25,120 --> 00:53:27,120 sure. IA 100% thought they were there 1223 00:53:27,120 --> 00:53:29,080 to arrest him because they had been telling us. 1224 00:53:29,320 --> 00:53:31,960 One of the other tools in a prosecutor's arsenal is that 1225 00:53:31,960 --> 00:53:34,040 we're just, we're going to come arrest you in your home in front 1226 00:53:34,040 --> 00:53:35,760 of your kids. You don't plead guilty. 1227 00:53:36,040 --> 00:53:39,240 We're coming and that is living under siege. 1228 00:53:39,480 --> 00:53:40,680 I will tell you it's living under siege. 1229 00:53:40,680 --> 00:53:43,400 It's an emotional siege, but it's a it's a siege nonetheless, 1230 00:53:43,400 --> 00:53:44,680 and you're waiting for it, I'm sure. 1231 00:53:44,720 --> 00:53:45,920 Just waiting. Yeah. 1232 00:53:46,880 --> 00:53:49,960 And I mean, I I lost 20 lbs in two weeks. 1233 00:53:50,000 --> 00:53:52,520 My body went into pure shock. And this. 1234 00:53:52,520 --> 00:53:54,080 Is after the search warrant or waiting for it? 1235 00:53:54,200 --> 00:53:56,640 This is beef waiting for it. We're waiting for the arrest, 1236 00:53:56,640 --> 00:53:58,000 really. And, you know, I had been 1237 00:53:58,000 --> 00:54:00,440 nursing and I wasn't able to. I mean, it's, you know. 1238 00:54:01,320 --> 00:54:04,320 No, it's, it's like the things that they do, it's not you, 1239 00:54:04,400 --> 00:54:06,320 It's, you know, it's your family, it's your kids that 1240 00:54:06,320 --> 00:54:08,280 everybody gets it. And if you're nursing, then 1241 00:54:08,280 --> 00:54:10,160 that's part of it. And then if you're, you know, 1242 00:54:10,160 --> 00:54:12,200 you're emotionally snappy and you're not patient with your 1243 00:54:12,200 --> 00:54:13,880 children and loving the way you could have been because you're 1244 00:54:13,880 --> 00:54:15,240 just, you're on edge at all times. 1245 00:54:15,520 --> 00:54:18,040 I, I know that I know exactly this feeling like I, I've been 1246 00:54:18,040 --> 00:54:19,320 living it. My wife told me like, are the 1247 00:54:19,320 --> 00:54:21,360 Clinton death squads coming for us, which is, you know, the sort 1248 00:54:21,360 --> 00:54:23,280 of the right wing joke? Is someone going to come and try 1249 00:54:23,280 --> 00:54:24,680 to off us in our night is what we've done? 1250 00:54:24,680 --> 00:54:28,280 But I slept with a but I slept with a rifle that was next to my 1251 00:54:28,280 --> 00:54:29,640 bed. And I still have a night vision 1252 00:54:29,640 --> 00:54:30,920 helmet and a rifle next to my bed. 1253 00:54:31,320 --> 00:54:32,080 I. Understand. 1254 00:54:32,080 --> 00:54:33,880 And I'm not exaggerating. Like that's just the way I have 1255 00:54:33,880 --> 00:54:35,200 to be right now. I can't imagine. 1256 00:54:35,600 --> 00:54:38,160 I understand my our lawyers all the time are like, Amy, no one 1257 00:54:38,160 --> 00:54:39,320 is going to come hurt your family. 1258 00:54:39,320 --> 00:54:42,480 And I'm like, no like. You're like, well, nobody should 1259 00:54:42,480 --> 00:54:45,120 have come and taken my bank account either and nobody should 1260 00:54:45,120 --> 00:54:47,320 have come and knocked on my door and told my husband he did 1261 00:54:47,320 --> 00:54:50,240 something that he didn't do because some huge corporation 1262 00:54:50,560 --> 00:54:54,240 needs to make, you know, multi billion dollar profit on us back 1263 00:54:54,240 --> 00:54:56,640 of just crushing your life. Yeah, they just don't. 1264 00:54:56,680 --> 00:54:59,880 And so the FBI source warrant like so we thought they were 1265 00:54:59,880 --> 00:55:01,720 there to arrest him. What? 1266 00:55:01,720 --> 00:55:02,680 What kind of team did they send in? 1267 00:55:02,680 --> 00:55:03,760 Were they all? Were they? 1268 00:55:04,600 --> 00:55:07,800 4 agents so I went to the door again. 1269 00:55:08,040 --> 00:55:10,000 Poor me. No, I went to the door and it 1270 00:55:10,000 --> 00:55:12,200 was 4 agents and they it's. Better than them knocking it 1271 00:55:12,200 --> 00:55:13,960 down to be honest. Yeah, they had their guns out. 1272 00:55:14,240 --> 00:55:16,800 They had their guns out and they had on their Navy blue FBI 1273 00:55:16,800 --> 00:55:20,240 jackets and, and I mean, 100% thought they were there to 1274 00:55:20,240 --> 00:55:22,000 arrest Carl. So my mind was like, how do I 1275 00:55:22,000 --> 00:55:23,880 keep the older girls away from this, right. 1276 00:55:23,880 --> 00:55:25,280 Like they're, they're in the basement. 1277 00:55:25,280 --> 00:55:26,160 I'm like, I'm gonna open the door. 1278 00:55:26,160 --> 00:55:27,840 I'm gonna get Carl out here and I'm just gonna keep him in the 1279 00:55:27,840 --> 00:55:28,920 basement. We're just gonna sit down there 1280 00:55:28,920 --> 00:55:31,480 until this is over and he's gone so they don't have to see it 1281 00:55:31,880 --> 00:55:33,280 because that was all the. Church warrants even worse 1282 00:55:33,280 --> 00:55:34,960 because I know they had to put you all in the same room and 1283 00:55:34,960 --> 00:55:37,080 watch you. No, listen to this, Kyle. 1284 00:55:37,600 --> 00:55:40,920 This is so crazy. So they're like, and the agent 1285 00:55:41,280 --> 00:55:45,080 was like, we're, you know, I opened the door and I was like, 1286 00:55:45,080 --> 00:55:47,320 we have a daughter in here with febrile seizures, which they 1287 00:55:47,320 --> 00:55:50,400 knew our oldest daughter had very bad febrile seizures. 1288 00:55:50,800 --> 00:55:53,560 We'd told the DOJ that because again, it's the height of the 1289 00:55:53,560 --> 00:55:55,560 pandemic and if you've ever seen a child sees. 1290 00:55:55,800 --> 00:55:57,400 I have, yeah. I'm a paramedic. 1291 00:55:57,520 --> 00:56:00,440 I've seen it a lot. And with COVID and the, and the 1292 00:56:00,440 --> 00:56:03,520 fevers and whatnot, and they had put an agent on a plane across 1293 00:56:03,520 --> 00:56:05,600 the country, I think a private plane to do the search warrant. 1294 00:56:05,600 --> 00:56:08,320 They put the lead case agent on a private plane to come to our 1295 00:56:08,320 --> 00:56:11,200 house to the search warrant. This is a week after my 1296 00:56:11,200 --> 00:56:13,080 husband's lawyers had given a big presentation to the 1297 00:56:13,080 --> 00:56:14,920 government about why my husband didn't commit a crime. 1298 00:56:15,200 --> 00:56:18,400 So they knew they were walking into tons of attorney-client 1299 00:56:18,400 --> 00:56:20,800 privileged materials. Of course. 1300 00:56:22,160 --> 00:56:25,280 Anyway, so I opened the door and I was like, we have a child with 1301 00:56:25,280 --> 00:56:27,000 seizures and he's like, we're going to let you and the girls 1302 00:56:27,000 --> 00:56:28,400 leave. And I was like. 1303 00:56:28,960 --> 00:56:31,080 Where? I go, I was like, what? 1304 00:56:31,320 --> 00:56:32,320 He's like, yeah. He's like, get all your 1305 00:56:32,320 --> 00:56:33,680 daughters and put them in the car and leave. 1306 00:56:33,960 --> 00:56:36,400 And I was like, and he goes, but don't do anything stupid. 1307 00:56:36,400 --> 00:56:38,680 Don't take anything. And I was like, and he goes, you 1308 00:56:38,680 --> 00:56:40,680 already did something stupid. And I was like, I'm sorry. 1309 00:56:40,680 --> 00:56:43,520 And he was like, you wired money to pay your attorneys. 1310 00:56:43,520 --> 00:56:45,240 And I'm like, you're not allowed to talk to me. 1311 00:56:45,240 --> 00:56:47,440 That's what I said that when I was like, we're represented. 1312 00:56:47,440 --> 00:56:49,880 You are not allowed. Like, let's not do this, right? 1313 00:56:49,920 --> 00:56:50,600 Yeah, yeah. Yeah. 1314 00:56:51,000 --> 00:56:53,640 Yeah, but then my husband walked up and I thought that they I 1315 00:56:53,640 --> 00:56:55,640 don't know what I thought. And he he walked up. 1316 00:56:55,640 --> 00:56:57,720 He hadn't heard At that point I I think I realized they were 1317 00:56:57,720 --> 00:57:00,400 there to do a search warrant. My husband walked up with his 1318 00:57:00,520 --> 00:57:01,960 his. If you can see me, I'm putting 1319 00:57:01,960 --> 00:57:05,200 my arms out because. He's ready to be cuffed. 1320 00:57:05,480 --> 00:57:07,360 He's ready to be cuffed. He wanted to make it as quick 1321 00:57:07,360 --> 00:57:10,160 and fast and we. Cuff in the We cuff in the back, 1322 00:57:10,160 --> 00:57:13,840 but he's. Not he's not a he's not a long 1323 00:57:13,840 --> 00:57:16,200 term con artist. Yeah, he doesn't, he doesn't 1324 00:57:16,360 --> 00:57:18,800 know exactly. Yeah, somebody says assume the 1325 00:57:18,800 --> 00:57:20,560 position and they know they turn around, they put their hands 1326 00:57:20,560 --> 00:57:22,800 behind their back. But yeah, he came, you know, he 1327 00:57:22,800 --> 00:57:25,760 did the AOC like hands up front thing, which is which is what 1328 00:57:25,760 --> 00:57:28,840 people would assume. And also, you know, that's 1329 00:57:28,840 --> 00:57:33,000 that's it's such a, you know, it, it's such a just an even 1330 00:57:33,120 --> 00:57:34,800 keeled posture. It's like what this is 1331 00:57:34,800 --> 00:57:36,240 happening. You just, you're accepting it, 1332 00:57:36,240 --> 00:57:38,480 you move on. So did they cuff him? 1333 00:57:38,960 --> 00:57:42,080 No. Thank God for that. 1334 00:57:42,080 --> 00:57:44,040 They they do have discretion, so thank God for that. 1335 00:57:44,320 --> 00:57:46,000 So they walk. So I am like, so they kind of 1336 00:57:46,000 --> 00:57:48,880 all waited at the door until I got the girls and I left. 1337 00:57:48,880 --> 00:57:50,160 And so I get, I get all the girls. 1338 00:57:50,160 --> 00:57:51,600 I'm like shoving them into the minivan. 1339 00:57:51,600 --> 00:57:53,680 I, I got our German Shepherd and put her in the minivan too, 1340 00:57:53,680 --> 00:57:55,160 because I didn't want anything to happen to her. 1341 00:57:56,320 --> 00:58:02,000 And I am tying my shoes, called Carl's lawyer while I'm tying my 1342 00:58:02,000 --> 00:58:03,160 shoes. And I'm like, they're here for a 1343 00:58:03,160 --> 00:58:04,480 search warrant and they're like, what? 1344 00:58:04,480 --> 00:58:05,560 They're like, this makes no sense. 1345 00:58:06,280 --> 00:58:08,280 What is 'cause they had just subpoenaed my husband. 1346 00:58:08,280 --> 00:58:10,600 He hadn't even had a chance to respond to the subpoena as it 1347 00:58:10,600 --> 00:58:13,000 was going to. And they're like, what is going 1348 00:58:13,080 --> 00:58:14,840 on? And I now know it's just a 1349 00:58:14,840 --> 00:58:16,680 pressure tactic, you know, because. 1350 00:58:16,680 --> 00:58:19,040 Yeah. So we, we say the, the process 1351 00:58:19,040 --> 00:58:21,200 is the punishment in this case. And I've only been seeing it 1352 00:58:21,200 --> 00:58:24,400 more and more recently. I don't think that I've ever 1353 00:58:24,400 --> 00:58:26,080 participated in something like that. 1354 00:58:26,560 --> 00:58:28,760 I, I'm pretty confident that I have not 'cause I I'm pretty 1355 00:58:28,760 --> 00:58:30,520 good at throwing the bullshit flag when it comes up. 1356 00:58:31,480 --> 00:58:33,400 I try not to swear actually, too, but there's no other way to 1357 00:58:33,400 --> 00:58:35,240 call it when these things happen, you know, You know, 1358 00:58:35,240 --> 00:58:37,480 somebody's got PCP and guns and they're felons. 1359 00:58:37,480 --> 00:58:40,400 It's kind of a different animal. Then you go to a mom's house. 1360 00:58:40,400 --> 00:58:41,840 It's like, why are we not doing a summons? 1361 00:58:42,280 --> 00:58:44,320 Yeah, we need to do a search. Like, you know, we could work 1362 00:58:44,320 --> 00:58:46,200 this through the attorneys. It seems pretty straightforward. 1363 00:58:46,640 --> 00:58:48,920 And also, like my husband had said, if you're going to arrest 1364 00:58:48,920 --> 00:58:50,880 me, like if you're going to charge me, please let me come 1365 00:58:50,880 --> 00:58:52,920 and turn myself in and I will. And they were like. 1366 00:58:53,120 --> 00:58:54,320 Yeah, that's the summons we're going to do. 1367 00:58:54,320 --> 00:58:57,680 That's just your house. And it's unbelievable stuff. 1368 00:58:57,880 --> 00:59:01,040 Phil had a comment to me and not long ago where he said, you 1369 00:59:01,040 --> 00:59:03,440 know, at this point that these guys, you know, the people that 1370 00:59:03,440 --> 00:59:05,320 are that are followers of the regime because these people 1371 00:59:05,320 --> 00:59:06,920 obviously believed in what they were doing, right? 1372 00:59:06,920 --> 00:59:08,760 Would you agree with that? That's why they were talking 1373 00:59:08,760 --> 00:59:09,880 that you've already done something stupid. 1374 00:59:09,880 --> 00:59:11,960 You send money to a lawyer, It's like, shame on you. 1375 00:59:13,480 --> 00:59:15,360 You know, they're believing in what they do. 1376 00:59:15,360 --> 00:59:17,320 And at this point, I think, I think Phil told me something 1377 00:59:17,320 --> 00:59:19,960 that he he thinks that our former colleagues and and by the 1378 00:59:19,960 --> 00:59:21,960 way, they came out of those people came out of our former 1379 00:59:22,000 --> 00:59:23,480 office. I was right of Washington Field. 1380 00:59:23,960 --> 00:59:26,880 So that's where it came from, I mean. 1381 00:59:27,040 --> 00:59:28,880 I know their names so I can tell you, but yeah, you. 1382 00:59:28,880 --> 00:59:30,960 Can and, and I, and that's the whole thing about this is like, 1383 00:59:30,960 --> 00:59:32,440 I don't, I don't need to protect anybody's name. 1384 00:59:32,440 --> 00:59:34,280 They have a public facing job and they serve the public. 1385 00:59:34,280 --> 00:59:35,880 So you feel like saying it, feel free. 1386 00:59:36,080 --> 00:59:37,920 You're there's no restrictions on it. 1387 00:59:38,160 --> 00:59:40,040 But those people would, you know, people that, that believe 1388 00:59:40,040 --> 00:59:41,960 in what the Bureau does so wholeheartedly that they're 1389 00:59:41,960 --> 00:59:44,160 willing to go and like knock somebody out of their house in 1390 00:59:44,160 --> 00:59:46,800 this kind of way on a white collar crime. 1391 00:59:47,200 --> 00:59:49,160 They would kick their grandma into a wood chipper for their 1392 00:59:49,160 --> 00:59:51,680 next promotion. Which is also remember a process 1393 00:59:51,680 --> 00:59:55,680 crime like lying to an FBI agent like Amazon is not harmed here, 1394 00:59:56,000 --> 00:59:56,720 right? Like this is. 1395 00:59:56,760 --> 00:59:58,440 Right. There's no violence, there's no 1396 00:59:58,440 --> 01:00:00,280 danger. There's no, there's no, you 1397 01:00:00,280 --> 01:00:04,200 know, public risk that's being. No monetary, no monetary loss. 1398 01:00:04,400 --> 01:00:07,200 Not even any loss like it's a process crime. 1399 01:00:07,760 --> 01:00:11,200 It's just yeah, so. It's incredible. 1400 01:00:11,200 --> 01:00:12,520 OK, so you got the kids in the car. 1401 01:00:12,520 --> 01:00:14,560 You got the dog in the car. I got a German shepherd too, so 1402 01:00:14,560 --> 01:00:15,680 I empathize with that one as well. 1403 01:00:15,680 --> 01:00:17,560 You got to take care of your baby, your fur baby. 1404 01:00:17,560 --> 01:00:20,160 And so we left and went to, I went to like my best friend's 1405 01:00:20,160 --> 01:00:20,960 house. She doesn't have kids. 1406 01:00:20,960 --> 01:00:23,160 I called her, I'm like, I'm sorry, I'm coming over with all 1407 01:00:23,160 --> 01:00:24,480 of my kids. Like, you just have to deal with 1408 01:00:24,480 --> 01:00:26,200 this for a minute. And I thought that we would be 1409 01:00:26,200 --> 01:00:28,360 there all day at my friend's house because I, I don't, I 1410 01:00:28,360 --> 01:00:30,440 guess from the movies, I thought that search warrants lasted all 1411 01:00:30,440 --> 01:00:32,040 day. It was 30 minutes. 1412 01:00:32,720 --> 01:00:35,120 Yeah, it it goes, it goes the whole gamut. 1413 01:00:35,120 --> 01:00:36,960 I've seen 48 hour search warrants where we'll hold the 1414 01:00:36,960 --> 01:00:39,360 scene for 48 hours or more. But I've also seen them go 1415 01:00:39,360 --> 01:00:42,120 through where they just tear up and go get they need and that's 1416 01:00:42,120 --> 01:00:42,680 it. They get. 1417 01:00:42,720 --> 01:00:44,960 Did they get electronics? They didn't tear anything up. 1418 01:00:44,960 --> 01:00:46,680 They just took my husband's cell phone and his laptop. 1419 01:00:47,120 --> 01:00:49,000 Yeah. And then like a few pieces of 1420 01:00:49,000 --> 01:00:52,560 paper, including memos on law firm letterhead that said 1421 01:00:52,560 --> 01:00:54,840 attorney-client privilege, they just went ahead and took those. 1422 01:00:54,840 --> 01:00:58,480 And my husband again. People can't see this, but Phil 1423 01:00:58,480 --> 01:01:00,120 is shaking his head in disgust right now. 1424 01:01:01,440 --> 01:01:03,640 It is disgusting because those like you're literally supposed 1425 01:01:03,640 --> 01:01:04,560 to leave that sort of stuff. Well. 1426 01:01:04,680 --> 01:01:07,200 Yeah, it's literally like he's preparing to be indicted and go 1427 01:01:07,200 --> 01:01:09,040 to trial and this is his defense, right? 1428 01:01:09,040 --> 01:01:11,000 You're like. You're now you're now infringing 1429 01:01:11,000 --> 01:01:13,600 on his ability to do A to mount a solid defense. 1430 01:01:13,760 --> 01:01:19,280 And so the they go get upstairs to my husband's office and 1431 01:01:19,280 --> 01:01:21,520 they're very careful like not to take anything of mine, I think 1432 01:01:21,520 --> 01:01:23,920 because I'm a lawyer and that would have been maybe a. 1433 01:01:23,920 --> 01:01:26,240 Well, so I'm sure I don't know if you guys saw the search 1434 01:01:26,240 --> 01:01:30,440 warrant like the the what is it? Is it Appendix A? 1435 01:01:30,440 --> 01:01:32,160 Is that what it's called the appendix where it says like 1436 01:01:32,160 --> 01:01:33,160 actually what they're allowed to search? 1437 01:01:33,160 --> 01:01:35,160 And usually it should be, it should be focused to him. 1438 01:01:35,160 --> 01:01:37,080 If you have a drawer that's not his drawer, then you shouldn't. 1439 01:01:37,080 --> 01:01:38,440 It shouldn't go into yours, all that kind. 1440 01:01:38,440 --> 01:01:39,000 Of stuff. Yeah. 1441 01:01:39,040 --> 01:01:42,040 So they took, so they, they had him open up his laptop and 1442 01:01:42,040 --> 01:01:43,800 they're like, will you open it and enter the password? 1443 01:01:43,800 --> 01:01:45,160 We can do this the hard way or the easy way. 1444 01:01:45,160 --> 01:01:47,080 And my husband's like, I'll give you the password, Whatever have 1445 01:01:47,080 --> 01:01:48,360 it, I don't care. Why, Yeah. 1446 01:01:48,560 --> 01:01:50,760 Like, you know, like have it like I like I've done nothing 1447 01:01:50,760 --> 01:01:51,360 wrong. Go for it. 1448 01:01:51,680 --> 01:01:53,240 So he gives them the password, they open it up. 1449 01:01:54,400 --> 01:01:58,120 So it it opens up to like presentation like all to our 1450 01:01:58,120 --> 01:02:00,400 attorney-client stuff because that was all he was doing. 1451 01:02:00,400 --> 01:02:06,080 So anyway, search for an ends. I come home and we are, you 1452 01:02:06,080 --> 01:02:07,960 know, conversations with our lawyers and our lawyers 1453 01:02:07,960 --> 01:02:09,680 immediately go to DOJ and they're like you took 1454 01:02:09,680 --> 01:02:11,680 attorney-client privilege stuff. You know that like you're not 1455 01:02:11,680 --> 01:02:13,200 stupid. You know you did this and 1456 01:02:13,200 --> 01:02:14,720 they're. Like do they have a tank team or 1457 01:02:14,720 --> 01:02:17,120 anything like that that's set up to be able to evaluate that? 1458 01:02:17,600 --> 01:02:22,520 Let me explain this to you. Sorry, they take this, so they 1459 01:02:22,520 --> 01:02:25,000 take they get this laptop, it's gone. 1460 01:02:25,000 --> 01:02:26,840 And again, we're like, you need to put a taint team in place. 1461 01:02:26,840 --> 01:02:28,840 Like of course, like this is we have to do this. 1462 01:02:29,280 --> 01:02:32,000 Tell people what that is just. A paint team is so if they do a 1463 01:02:32,000 --> 01:02:33,640 search warrant and they think they're going to get stuff 1464 01:02:33,640 --> 01:02:34,880 that's attorney-client privilege. 1465 01:02:35,400 --> 01:02:39,000 The they're supposed to have a separate team of FBI agents and 1466 01:02:39,000 --> 01:02:43,440 lawyers review everything and then separate out anything that 1467 01:02:43,440 --> 01:02:45,720 might be attorney-client privilege and not let the 1468 01:02:45,720 --> 01:02:48,440 prosecutors and agents working on the case review it. 1469 01:02:48,720 --> 01:02:52,320 Problem here, they sent the lead case agent across the country to 1470 01:02:52,320 --> 01:02:55,760 do the search warrant when anyone in Seattle could have 1471 01:02:55,760 --> 01:02:57,640 gotten the laptop. If you feel shaking his head 1472 01:02:57,680 --> 01:02:58,680 right now, can you see? I mean like. 1473 01:02:59,240 --> 01:03:00,400 Is it nuts? It's nuts. 1474 01:03:00,400 --> 01:03:02,200 It's nuts. Like it's just the other thing 1475 01:03:02,200 --> 01:03:06,840 is they put on the search warrant, they included to search 1476 01:03:06,840 --> 01:03:09,600 for communications between my husband and his business lawyer 1477 01:03:09,600 --> 01:03:12,640 that has set up his company. So like they were purpose. 1478 01:03:12,680 --> 01:03:18,760 I mean, I don't anyway, So, so this happens. 1479 01:03:19,400 --> 01:03:22,360 But and they're like the prosecutor who wrote back to my 1480 01:03:22,360 --> 01:03:24,000 husband's lawyers, his name is Uzo Sonia. 1481 01:03:24,040 --> 01:03:25,840 He was a prosecutor for Robert Mueller. 1482 01:03:26,160 --> 01:03:28,360 He has since left and gone to work for a law firm that 1483 01:03:28,360 --> 01:03:30,480 represents Amazon. Oh, shocker. 1484 01:03:30,480 --> 01:03:33,000 Yeah, that would never happen. Why would someone who just did 1485 01:03:33,000 --> 01:03:35,320 a, you know, Amazon hatchet job get an Amazon job? 1486 01:03:35,320 --> 01:03:36,880 That doesn't make sense. That's not how we do it, is it? 1487 01:03:37,240 --> 01:03:40,000 Yeah, it's so ridiculous. But anyway, he so he writes back 1488 01:03:40,000 --> 01:03:42,160 to the lawyers and he's like, you will not dictate the time, 1489 01:03:42,160 --> 01:03:44,240 the timing of our investigation. We'll get back to you when it's 1490 01:03:44,240 --> 01:03:45,640 appropriate. And then we never heard back. 1491 01:03:46,400 --> 01:03:49,160 And then like a year late, a year later, this is how like 1492 01:03:49,160 --> 01:03:50,880 slowly this all. Moves and you're not in your 1493 01:03:50,880 --> 01:03:52,280 home and you don't have your money. 1494 01:03:52,360 --> 01:03:54,480 Living with my husband's family, we don't have our dog. 1495 01:03:54,480 --> 01:03:56,680 She's left with a friend because we're in a different state and 1496 01:03:56,680 --> 01:03:57,960 it's so sad. Anyway. 1497 01:03:58,720 --> 01:04:00,920 When when did you get did you reunite with your kid at us to 1498 01:04:00,920 --> 01:04:02,400 go after you went to go work or were you? 1499 01:04:02,720 --> 01:04:04,520 Still, we all now live together in Ohio. 1500 01:04:05,240 --> 01:04:06,840 OK. Is that where you are right now? 1501 01:04:07,000 --> 01:04:09,760 Yeah, I'm in Ohio now. Yeah, We live in Columbus, OH 1502 01:04:09,760 --> 01:04:11,480 now where this is where my family is. 1503 01:04:12,080 --> 01:04:14,760 We eventually came here and stayed with my family. 1504 01:04:14,760 --> 01:04:17,240 I was, and that's when I was commuting to New York to work a 1505 01:04:17,240 --> 01:04:18,320 job. So I was living in New York 1506 01:04:18,320 --> 01:04:19,720 Monday to Friday. My kids were here. 1507 01:04:20,880 --> 01:04:24,720 But now in, like, I mean, sometimes good things happen in 1508 01:04:24,720 --> 01:04:26,320 the world. We were able to rebuild my 1509 01:04:26,320 --> 01:04:28,800 company. I am now the CEO of my company 1510 01:04:28,800 --> 01:04:30,880 again. It is amazing. 1511 01:04:30,880 --> 01:04:34,960 I'm home. It's, you know, but so we learn 1512 01:04:34,960 --> 01:04:38,360 a year later after the search warrant, that somehow in the 1513 01:04:38,360 --> 01:04:40,920 government's possession, my husband's laptop has become 1514 01:04:40,920 --> 01:04:43,280 encrypted and it is unencryptable. 1515 01:04:44,320 --> 01:04:46,600 They they didn't put the password in right and they they 1516 01:04:46,640 --> 01:04:48,880 locked it down. So it's gone. 1517 01:04:50,240 --> 01:04:51,800 All of his stuff. All of it. 1518 01:04:52,560 --> 01:04:54,440 And he couldn't unlock it either. 1519 01:04:55,000 --> 01:04:56,480 No. So what they needed was 1520 01:04:56,480 --> 01:05:00,680 something called a Microsoft BitLocker key, and my husband 1521 01:05:00,680 --> 01:05:02,880 hadn't gotten the laptop from Amazon. 1522 01:05:03,320 --> 01:05:04,440 Oh. He didn't. 1523 01:05:04,440 --> 01:05:06,440 He wasn't like, it was like a gift from his boss. 1524 01:05:06,720 --> 01:05:08,680 So he didn't have the BitLocker key. 1525 01:05:08,680 --> 01:05:11,880 We called Microsoft and we we tried, we tried right to like, 1526 01:05:11,880 --> 01:05:15,040 we tried to get it open. It's just gone. 1527 01:05:15,840 --> 01:05:18,400 Everything you had in there. Everything is gone. 1528 01:05:18,440 --> 01:05:22,920 And then eventually we learned that the FBI agents and the 1529 01:05:22,920 --> 01:05:25,280 prosecutors did look at the attorney-client privileged 1530 01:05:25,280 --> 01:05:26,480 materials. Of course, yeah. 1531 01:05:26,960 --> 01:05:30,320 They got the FBI agent got removed from the investigation 1532 01:05:30,360 --> 01:05:32,600 by the DOJ. Well, at least there's that. 1533 01:05:32,920 --> 01:05:36,160 Did they get hit with any sort of OPR coverage? 1534 01:05:36,200 --> 01:05:39,800 No. No, and we had to fight. 1535 01:05:40,200 --> 01:05:42,440 We had to fight. Out of curiosity, did you file 1536 01:05:42,440 --> 01:05:44,720 an OIG complaint? Not yet. 1537 01:05:45,680 --> 01:05:47,600 It's like a hole because the investigation. 1538 01:05:47,600 --> 01:05:48,880 It's awful. And listen, I don't have any 1539 01:05:48,880 --> 01:05:50,760 faith in that process either. I'm going to do it just because 1540 01:05:50,760 --> 01:05:52,240 you do it. You do it because it's a pain in 1541 01:05:52,240 --> 01:05:53,800 the ass for them and that's the only thing you can do. 1542 01:05:53,800 --> 01:05:56,000 But. I mean, but I I like Kyle, the 1543 01:05:56,000 --> 01:05:58,160 investigation ostensibly could still be ongoing. 1544 01:05:58,160 --> 01:06:01,360 Like we don't know correct what's going on, You know, it's 1545 01:06:01,720 --> 01:06:03,760 but it could be, it could go on for five years, I guess, right. 1546 01:06:03,760 --> 01:06:05,280 So. I could go on. 1547 01:06:05,280 --> 01:06:06,400 Yeah. Is there a statute? 1548 01:06:06,400 --> 01:06:08,520 Is that what it is? Yeah, five years. 1549 01:06:08,920 --> 01:06:11,240 Yeah, so. Unless they added different 1550 01:06:11,240 --> 01:06:13,240 things to it, if they added, you know, false statements or, you 1551 01:06:13,240 --> 01:06:15,160 know, obstruction charges and they could do it for another, 1552 01:06:15,160 --> 01:06:15,840 whatever it is. Yeah. 1553 01:06:15,840 --> 01:06:17,560 So there's no question about it. Yeah. 1554 01:06:18,000 --> 01:06:20,080 There's no question that it could be ongoing, but also 1555 01:06:20,080 --> 01:06:21,800 probably has to lose some steam because they're like what the 1556 01:06:21,800 --> 01:06:23,240 hell they can do and Amazon got what they wanted. 1557 01:06:24,360 --> 01:06:27,200 Well, Amazon hasn't got what they wanted really, because they 1558 01:06:27,200 --> 01:06:28,520 still. They didn't get to break the 1559 01:06:28,520 --> 01:06:30,560 contract. But they did break the contract 1560 01:06:30,560 --> 01:06:32,960 without a felony. So unless, unless they get a 1561 01:06:32,960 --> 01:06:34,920 felony, they're going to be liable for these damages. 1562 01:06:35,360 --> 01:06:37,520 Like there's still, that's why we know. 1563 01:06:37,880 --> 01:06:40,560 I can tell you too. And I want to see head shakes at 1564 01:06:40,560 --> 01:06:43,680 this one. Phil, do we know from the emails 1565 01:06:43,680 --> 01:06:47,000 that we've seen that Amazon was able to meet with prosecutors 1566 01:06:47,000 --> 01:06:50,520 over 100 times to lobby for criminal charges, that is? 1567 01:06:51,120 --> 01:06:55,200 100 * a. 100 times. It should be one time. 1568 01:06:55,200 --> 01:06:56,880 It's like here. We'd like to report this problem 1569 01:06:57,520 --> 01:06:59,200 and then the FBI says, cool, thank you. 1570 01:06:59,200 --> 01:07:02,080 And then we don't comment on ongoing investigations. 100 1571 01:07:02,080 --> 01:07:05,440 times. That's insane. 1572 01:07:06,000 --> 01:07:08,360 There's no other way to say it. Like that's just the most insane 1573 01:07:08,360 --> 01:07:12,040 thing. All right, so let's let's keep 1574 01:07:12,080 --> 01:07:15,080 pushing through this story like I'm there's some light on the 1575 01:07:15,080 --> 01:07:17,560 end of the tunnel only because you're OK now and you're there. 1576 01:07:17,560 --> 01:07:19,000 So let's let's keep pushing through. 1577 01:07:19,000 --> 01:07:21,400 They they lost the laptop. It's all fully encrypted. 1578 01:07:21,440 --> 01:07:24,240 They can no longer so now they now they don't have access to 1579 01:07:24,240 --> 01:07:26,120 all your stuff, but they all saw it and they removed the case 1580 01:07:26,120 --> 01:07:28,720 agent who I'm sure could never talk to anybody else in the 1581 01:07:28,720 --> 01:07:30,320 office. White collar squad. 1582 01:07:30,560 --> 01:07:32,880 I'm sure that you know he sits right next to the other people 1583 01:07:32,880 --> 01:07:36,040 that do the same work. Oh yeah, I mean, yeah, right. 1584 01:07:36,040 --> 01:07:38,120 Like the other agent that's been on it the whole time is still 1585 01:07:38,600 --> 01:07:40,560 never got removed from it. And their friends, their 1586 01:07:40,560 --> 01:07:42,080 Facebook, that's the other thing. 1587 01:07:42,560 --> 01:07:44,920 I have been able to figure out so much stuff about connections 1588 01:07:44,920 --> 01:07:47,440 just by looking at Facebook and LinkedIn and it's. 1589 01:07:47,440 --> 01:07:51,120 Not something it's we call that, we call that open source. 1590 01:07:51,120 --> 01:07:53,120 In fact, there's a so there's a guy that I was in a Twitter 1591 01:07:53,120 --> 01:07:55,000 space with last night and he goes by name redacted. 1592 01:07:55,000 --> 01:07:57,080 I know his real name, but I'm not going to say it. 1593 01:07:57,080 --> 01:07:59,760 And he has and he basically does open source research on Twitter 1594 01:08:00,080 --> 01:08:03,880 and on Google and on Amazon and on all these different FBI and 1595 01:08:03,880 --> 01:08:06,320 CIA and other intelligence community people that are hired 1596 01:08:06,320 --> 01:08:08,160 on there. And he did it all through going 1597 01:08:08,160 --> 01:08:10,840 through LinkedIn and he went through their, their Facebook 1598 01:08:10,960 --> 01:08:14,000 connections and, you know, their access that they have on Twitter 1599 01:08:14,000 --> 01:08:15,560 and who they're following and who their friends are and all 1600 01:08:15,880 --> 01:08:17,080 that. And it's out there and they're 1601 01:08:17,080 --> 01:08:19,000 not. They're not scared about putting 1602 01:08:19,000 --> 01:08:21,520 it out there. The prosecutor, the one 1603 01:08:21,520 --> 01:08:22,920 prosecutor has been there the whole time. 1604 01:08:22,920 --> 01:08:26,200 He was removed in July of last year. 1605 01:08:26,399 --> 01:08:28,560 And I'll tell you why because that's another crazy story. 1606 01:08:28,560 --> 01:08:34,120 But he is like on LinkedIn, liking like Amazon HQ 2, 1607 01:08:34,120 --> 01:08:35,600 bringing a lot of jobs to Virginia. 1608 01:08:35,600 --> 01:08:38,120 And I'm like, can you just try a little bit? 1609 01:08:38,359 --> 01:08:40,760 Yeah, this is the this was the Crystal City project, is that 1610 01:08:40,760 --> 01:08:41,200 right? That they're. 1611 01:08:41,240 --> 01:08:43,680 Yeah, I mean, I was there when that was going down, obviously. 1612 01:08:43,920 --> 01:08:46,080 Yeah. But like, so he's he's liking, 1613 01:08:46,120 --> 01:08:47,960 Yeah, way to go in. Like why is he following? 1614 01:08:47,960 --> 01:08:50,040 Him and then like the Amazon lawyer who's lobbying the 1615 01:08:50,040 --> 01:08:53,160 prosecutors is like when Uzo and Sonia left to get a job, you 1616 01:08:53,160 --> 01:08:56,040 know, in the private sector, the Amazon lawyer used for Omar is 1617 01:08:56,040 --> 01:08:59,279 like good luck, Uzo, thanks for everything and it's like. 1618 01:09:00,319 --> 01:09:02,800 It's all there. Getting beers together, like is 1619 01:09:02,800 --> 01:09:05,240 that what's happening, going. To the strip club in Crystal 1620 01:09:05,240 --> 01:09:06,920 City. I mean, it's basically what it 1621 01:09:06,920 --> 01:09:09,000 feels like it's. And they probably are. 1622 01:09:09,359 --> 01:09:12,359 Well, and you know, and going through LinkedIn, I realized 1623 01:09:12,359 --> 01:09:15,439 that Amazon is hiring hundreds of former prosecutors and FBI 1624 01:09:15,439 --> 01:09:17,840 agents. So like, of course we like, you 1625 01:09:17,840 --> 01:09:19,920 know, like my husband's not going to hire your former FBI 1626 01:09:19,920 --> 01:09:23,359 agents or, and you're going to make 3 or 5X what you did at the 1627 01:09:23,399 --> 01:09:27,760 Bureau going to work for Amazon. And Amazon has on their board 1628 01:09:27,880 --> 01:09:29,960 the former head of the NSA, Keith Alexander. 1629 01:09:29,960 --> 01:09:32,279 Like what business experience does Keith Alexander have? 1630 01:09:32,359 --> 01:09:33,760 Like what business? Experience. 1631 01:09:33,800 --> 01:09:35,760 Do any of them have? No, the only reason Keith 1632 01:09:35,760 --> 01:09:38,040 Alexander is on the board is to help Amazon get contracts with 1633 01:09:38,040 --> 01:09:39,880 the NSA and other government agencies. 1634 01:09:40,200 --> 01:09:41,720 Correct. So I've been calling this the 1635 01:09:41,760 --> 01:09:44,160 the information industrial complex, very similar to what 1636 01:09:44,200 --> 01:09:45,319 goes on then. OK. 1637 01:09:45,319 --> 01:09:47,399 And so I'm not, I didn't originate because I actually 1638 01:09:47,399 --> 01:09:49,520 Google searched it and I found out there are mentions going 1639 01:09:49,520 --> 01:09:51,840 back to 2014, some academic papers. 1640 01:09:52,520 --> 01:09:55,120 But the information industrial complex is essentially the same 1641 01:09:55,120 --> 01:09:57,000 thing that goes on in the military industrial complex. 1642 01:09:57,200 --> 01:10:01,000 You don't hire generals because they know the most about tanks 1643 01:10:01,000 --> 01:10:04,000 or planes or small weapon systems for squad based, you 1644 01:10:04,000 --> 01:10:05,680 know, operation. You hire them because you know 1645 01:10:05,680 --> 01:10:07,920 who's buying them, and they're friends with the guy who writes 1646 01:10:07,920 --> 01:10:09,960 the check for the next round because that guy just took his 1647 01:10:09,960 --> 01:10:12,720 old job and they were buddies. So that's the same thing that's 1648 01:10:12,720 --> 01:10:14,040 going on in this intelligence community. 1649 01:10:14,040 --> 01:10:15,920 It's like the people who are going to stroke out the check 1650 01:10:16,280 --> 01:10:19,560 that pays for the web services for hosting Jedi or whatever 1651 01:10:19,560 --> 01:10:22,520 else they're buddies with, and they just left that job so that 1652 01:10:22,680 --> 01:10:23,760 you know exactly what I'm talking. 1653 01:10:23,760 --> 01:10:26,280 About well, I figured out I'm, I'm just me, you know, I'm just 1654 01:10:26,280 --> 01:10:29,320 this Mama for I guess I'm a lawyer, but like I'm just doing 1655 01:10:29,320 --> 01:10:31,960 Google research and there's this woman named Christine Halverson 1656 01:10:31,960 --> 01:10:35,800 who was like a 20 year agent. She spoke at AWS Big conference 1657 01:10:35,800 --> 01:10:37,680 which is called Reinvent. What's her name? 1658 01:10:38,160 --> 01:10:40,880 Christine Halverson. Halverson, OK. 1659 01:10:41,200 --> 01:10:45,200 So she spoke at this big AWS reinvent conference as a member 1660 01:10:45,200 --> 01:10:50,080 of the FBI saying the FBI say or AWS saved the FBI. 1661 01:10:51,080 --> 01:10:52,440 Take a guess where she works now. 1662 01:10:53,080 --> 01:10:54,800 Oh, I wonder if she works for Amazon Web Services. 1663 01:10:54,840 --> 01:10:57,040 She does indeed, and guess she does sales for the government. 1664 01:10:57,280 --> 01:10:58,080 It's. Great. 1665 01:10:58,400 --> 01:10:59,840 Is it because she knows people in the government? 1666 01:10:59,840 --> 01:11:01,480 That's strange. I mean it's. 1667 01:11:01,800 --> 01:11:03,600 Just like what's also funny is that a lot of these people 1668 01:11:03,600 --> 01:11:05,840 haven't worked in a decade, especially when they're senior 1669 01:11:05,840 --> 01:11:07,160 executives. They literally haven't had a 1670 01:11:07,160 --> 01:11:08,360 job. They just so, you know, they 1671 01:11:08,360 --> 01:11:10,400 just get accolades. Their job is literally compiling 1672 01:11:10,400 --> 01:11:13,600 their resume to say what people under them did because they're 1673 01:11:13,600 --> 01:11:15,400 not operationally doing invest. You know, they're not doing 1674 01:11:15,400 --> 01:11:16,960 investigations, they're not doing any of this stuff. 1675 01:11:18,480 --> 01:11:22,360 It's nauseating. I think the only good thing is I 1676 01:11:22,360 --> 01:11:26,320 think the only silver lining out of all this kind of insanity is 1677 01:11:26,320 --> 01:11:29,520 that they're visible in a way that they've never been before. 1678 01:11:30,400 --> 01:11:33,600 And it's like this year, you know, in the last four months, 1679 01:11:33,600 --> 01:11:35,640 they're visible in a way that nobody's ever seen. 1680 01:11:36,520 --> 01:11:38,720 And now they're realizing like, oh crap, we better hide some of 1681 01:11:38,720 --> 01:11:40,040 this stuff. But it's too late because the 1682 01:11:40,040 --> 01:11:42,840 scurrying, it's it's happening. The lights already on. 1683 01:11:43,280 --> 01:11:46,000 Well, in fact, like the prosecutor that liked, you know, 1684 01:11:46,240 --> 01:11:48,520 and had all these interactions with Amazon and LinkedIn, he 1685 01:11:48,520 --> 01:11:51,400 took down his LinkedIn profile because he's in fact about to be 1686 01:11:51,800 --> 01:11:54,040 seated as a federal judge in the Eastern District of Virginia. 1687 01:11:54,040 --> 01:11:55,320 And he took. Oh, that's wonderful. 1688 01:11:55,320 --> 01:11:56,440 Thank. You took down his LinkedIn 1689 01:11:56,440 --> 01:11:57,760 profile after? I, like, put something on 1690 01:11:57,760 --> 01:12:01,560 Twitter, but like, it's like, I mean, this is all, it's just all 1691 01:12:01,560 --> 01:12:05,400 so transparently corrupt. It, it just bothers me. 1692 01:12:05,400 --> 01:12:07,840 It's like, and and part of it is like, did you think we were all 1693 01:12:07,840 --> 01:12:09,840 so stupid that we wouldn't try to figure this out? 1694 01:12:09,840 --> 01:12:12,120 Like, I wouldn't care for my family. 1695 01:12:12,160 --> 01:12:13,920 Yeah, I, I care. Do you think I don't care enough 1696 01:12:13,920 --> 01:12:16,960 about my husband's freedom to try to go fight and figure this 1697 01:12:16,960 --> 01:12:18,840 out? Like I, I just like you're 1698 01:12:18,840 --> 01:12:21,840 trying to put people in prison like you. 1699 01:12:21,840 --> 01:12:23,840 Said it. You went to war for your family. 1700 01:12:23,880 --> 01:12:26,520 That's what my that's what my my wife calls what I'm doing right 1701 01:12:26,520 --> 01:12:27,520 now. This is the war. 1702 01:12:28,000 --> 01:12:30,560 We're in it. You guys are not done with it 1703 01:12:31,920 --> 01:12:34,840 like you can't be. And, and obviously you're out 1704 01:12:34,840 --> 01:12:36,880 there talking about it too. And that's the only other way to 1705 01:12:36,880 --> 01:12:38,400 do it. It's like we have to spread 1706 01:12:38,400 --> 01:12:40,800 information because this is this is what's called 5 GW. 1707 01:12:40,800 --> 01:12:41,960 Are you familiar with that that term? 1708 01:12:42,080 --> 01:12:45,120 No, no. Five GW is it's it's known as 1709 01:12:45,120 --> 01:12:47,400 fifth generation warfare. So there's different types of 1710 01:12:47,400 --> 01:12:49,760 warfare like third generation is like modern conventional 1711 01:12:49,760 --> 01:12:52,680 warfare. 4th generation is like the counterinsurgency insurgency 1712 01:12:52,680 --> 01:12:56,200 type fighting. 5th generation war is an information war and 1713 01:12:56,200 --> 01:12:58,200 when you and when everybody is feeling right now in this 1714 01:12:58,200 --> 01:13:02,720 country is that anxiety that is being seated by being in the 1715 01:13:02,720 --> 01:13:05,240 middle of a of an actual civil war or an actual war. 1716 01:13:05,240 --> 01:13:06,840 It doesn't have to be civil. I guess I don't know what you 1717 01:13:06,840 --> 01:13:09,480 like the the the parties are not even. 1718 01:13:10,120 --> 01:13:12,400 But. But but what we're fighting is, 1719 01:13:12,400 --> 01:13:14,720 is a legitimate information war. And it's it's done with 1720 01:13:14,720 --> 01:13:17,440 misinformation, it's done with distrust operations, it's done 1721 01:13:17,440 --> 01:13:19,400 with, you know, fighting against it and marginalizing 1722 01:13:19,400 --> 01:13:21,280 institutions. It's it's manipulation of the 1723 01:13:21,280 --> 01:13:23,200 media. It's, you know, everyone always 1724 01:13:23,200 --> 01:13:25,400 calls it like psyops. Psyops are like battles. 1725 01:13:25,800 --> 01:13:27,440 Yeah. In a larger war. 1726 01:13:27,440 --> 01:13:29,880 And so that anxiety, like what's wrong with our country and how 1727 01:13:29,880 --> 01:13:32,520 did we get here and what is going, you know, all the things 1728 01:13:32,520 --> 01:13:34,080 that I know that are wrong. And it doesn't matter whether 1729 01:13:34,080 --> 01:13:36,440 you're on the left or the right politically speaking, because 1730 01:13:36,440 --> 01:13:37,680 everybody has that same sensation. 1731 01:13:37,680 --> 01:13:39,440 Like there's something that is not right. 1732 01:13:39,880 --> 01:13:42,480 That's five GW. And so you know, you're in it 1733 01:13:42,480 --> 01:13:44,480 whether you like it or not. And so you you mentioned the 1734 01:13:44,480 --> 01:13:45,920 word, you're accurately stating that. 1735 01:13:46,640 --> 01:13:48,320 And I want to reaffirm what you're saying that because it's 1736 01:13:48,320 --> 01:13:51,120 very important that people know this is not like a turn of 1737 01:13:51,120 --> 01:13:53,320 speech. This isn't there's an actual, 1738 01:13:53,320 --> 01:13:55,560 you can look at the definition of five GW and you can read all 1739 01:13:55,560 --> 01:13:56,920 kinds of stuff. There's whole books written on 1740 01:13:56,920 --> 01:13:58,600 it. And and they've gone back, you 1741 01:13:58,600 --> 01:14:01,960 know, probably to World War One. Those were psyops campaigns. 1742 01:14:02,880 --> 01:14:04,360 It always accompanied. They just didn't, you know, 1743 01:14:04,440 --> 01:14:07,480 codify it and and study it. But when we start looking at 1744 01:14:07,480 --> 01:14:09,920 what that is it, it makes more sense that like the things that 1745 01:14:09,920 --> 01:14:12,560 you're, you know, the sort of emotional traumas and, and the 1746 01:14:12,560 --> 01:14:14,120 wreckage of family lives that go along. 1747 01:14:14,120 --> 01:14:16,480 It's very real. Like it's real trauma, it's real 1748 01:14:16,760 --> 01:14:18,800 destruction that is is wreaking havoc on your life. 1749 01:14:18,800 --> 01:14:20,680 Phil had the same experience. I had the same experience. 1750 01:14:20,760 --> 01:14:22,680 Yeah, I'm so sorry that you went through that like it's well. 1751 01:14:23,200 --> 01:14:25,080 It's like we're in it together. So like, you don't have to be 1752 01:14:25,080 --> 01:14:26,480 sorry. We're we're, we're teammates on 1753 01:14:26,480 --> 01:14:28,040 this. The teammates are people that 1754 01:14:28,040 --> 01:14:31,280 know that something is wrong, yeah, and, and, and not wanting 1755 01:14:31,280 --> 01:14:32,760 it to continue. So I think. 1756 01:14:32,760 --> 01:14:35,000 People like don't understand kind of like the the real 1757 01:14:35,000 --> 01:14:38,360 repercussions of it. Like I until I work, I've I've 1758 01:14:38,360 --> 01:14:40,560 like, I've never been someone who's like on it's OK if you go 1759 01:14:40,560 --> 01:14:41,760 to therapy. I like, don't judge, but I've 1760 01:14:41,760 --> 01:14:43,280 never been someone who had like, you know? 1761 01:14:43,560 --> 01:14:46,720 I married a therapist because I needed it probably like I'm I'm 1762 01:14:46,760 --> 01:14:47,960 vertically integrated in my house. 1763 01:14:48,480 --> 01:14:50,560 But I always thought like, oh, I'm tough, you know, I'm tough. 1764 01:14:50,920 --> 01:14:53,080 But after the FBI search warrant, after the search 1765 01:14:53,080 --> 01:14:55,400 warrant, I started taking my daughters up. 1766 01:14:55,440 --> 01:14:58,520 I would wake them up at 5:30 every morning for months and 1767 01:14:58,520 --> 01:15:00,480 Carl and my husband and I would take them out of the house to go 1768 01:15:00,480 --> 01:15:04,160 to a park for like hours and then we had a baby monitor in 1769 01:15:04,160 --> 01:15:06,600 the window and we would. And that was literally so that 1770 01:15:06,600 --> 01:15:09,880 you were not there if they did it again, people need to 1771 01:15:09,880 --> 01:15:12,200 understand how how real that is because that's not you're not 1772 01:15:12,200 --> 01:15:13,680 the only person I've ever heard of doing that. 1773 01:15:13,680 --> 01:15:17,320 I was waking up at 5:00 AM for the last couple months as well. 1774 01:15:17,760 --> 01:15:19,800 Part of it's because I have a 2 year old, a sub 2 year old who 1775 01:15:19,800 --> 01:15:20,920 wants to wake up and scream stuff. 1776 01:15:21,360 --> 01:15:23,240 But part of it is because my wife and I were just sitting 1777 01:15:23,240 --> 01:15:25,880 there awake. And it's like, is this the 1778 01:15:25,880 --> 01:15:27,440 morning? Is this the morning? 1779 01:15:27,920 --> 01:15:30,280 You know, it's like, I know and there's we had a, we have a 1780 01:15:30,640 --> 01:15:32,760 security gate at my parents place that like is locked 1781 01:15:32,760 --> 01:15:35,320 outside of the front door. And so it would be, it would be 1782 01:15:35,320 --> 01:15:37,160 not easy for them to like bang through it. 1783 01:15:37,160 --> 01:15:38,720 They probably, I mean, they could, they'd have to breach 1784 01:15:38,720 --> 01:15:40,480 with the team though. But if they send someone for me, 1785 01:15:40,480 --> 01:15:42,880 they're sending a swat team, right? 1786 01:15:42,880 --> 01:15:45,080 Like I'm trained. I have like, I have all kinds of 1787 01:15:45,080 --> 01:15:47,240 weapon systems. It's next to my bed. 1788 01:15:47,240 --> 01:15:51,360 I I talk about it publicly. So I'm up because I don't, I 1789 01:15:51,360 --> 01:15:52,880 want at least identify what the target is like. 1790 01:15:52,960 --> 01:15:55,560 It's not some like rogue, you know, criminal agent that they, 1791 01:15:55,600 --> 01:15:57,760 they turned on us and it's actually like federal agents. 1792 01:15:57,760 --> 01:15:59,120 And if it is, then we have to open the door. 1793 01:15:59,600 --> 01:16:01,280 So we're having that. And it's like, I'm not trying to 1794 01:16:01,280 --> 01:16:03,880 get in a shootout in front of my children, right. 1795 01:16:04,000 --> 01:16:05,480 But I'm also I don't know who's going to come. 1796 01:16:05,480 --> 01:16:07,120 Like I don't know who's coming and neither do you. 1797 01:16:07,640 --> 01:16:10,520 And so that like sleeping on the floor and waking up and, and 1798 01:16:10,520 --> 01:16:11,960 getting your kids out of the house before six. 1799 01:16:12,760 --> 01:16:15,240 That is, that's that's insanity for most people. 1800 01:16:15,480 --> 01:16:17,040 And that was your reality for a while. 1801 01:16:17,640 --> 01:16:18,880 Yeah. And then even when we stopped 1802 01:16:18,880 --> 01:16:22,840 doing it because we finally, I think in the fall of 2020, the 1803 01:16:22,840 --> 01:16:25,680 prosecutors agreed that if they were going to charge him, they 1804 01:16:25,680 --> 01:16:28,880 would let him turn himself in. And that felt like a miracle to 1805 01:16:28,880 --> 01:16:29,800 me. I was like, Oh my God. 1806 01:16:30,280 --> 01:16:32,160 And that should have been the default position. 1807 01:16:32,160 --> 01:16:34,040 And people, people who are, if you're just listening to our 1808 01:16:34,040 --> 01:16:36,520 audio stream, you can't see it. Like, you know, Amy's got some 1809 01:16:36,520 --> 01:16:38,600 emotion on her face. I'll just say it like, that's 1810 01:16:38,600 --> 01:16:40,000 the only way. And I feel the same way right 1811 01:16:40,000 --> 01:16:43,440 now, too. It's it's devastating to like 1812 01:16:43,440 --> 01:16:45,520 have to have that conversation with your spouse and like, 1813 01:16:45,520 --> 01:16:47,440 what's the Strat? Like what is our strategy for 1814 01:16:47,440 --> 01:16:50,080 surviving the unknown here? That's coming down? 1815 01:16:50,440 --> 01:16:51,480 Because that's what it is. It's unknown. 1816 01:16:51,800 --> 01:16:54,400 And last night, my husband and I were talking about like, how 1817 01:16:54,400 --> 01:16:57,400 we're proud of ourselves that through this, our kids are 1818 01:16:57,400 --> 01:16:59,680 loved. And they're, you know, they know 1819 01:16:59,680 --> 01:17:01,520 they're loved. They, they, they think they're 1820 01:17:01,520 --> 01:17:05,320 safe and that, like, we have found a way to like, laugh and 1821 01:17:05,320 --> 01:17:07,320 find joy. But that's what people at war 1822 01:17:07,320 --> 01:17:08,720 do, right? You learn to live at war. 1823 01:17:09,280 --> 01:17:12,480 Like you, it is the war. Babies are born at war, you 1824 01:17:12,480 --> 01:17:14,320 know, like, it's like you just, you learn to live like this. 1825 01:17:14,320 --> 01:17:18,360 And I know, like, eventually this will end, but I cannot 1826 01:17:18,360 --> 01:17:21,120 imagine what it will feel like because the war doesn't end when 1827 01:17:21,120 --> 01:17:24,440 our situation ends. And the thing that we have to do 1828 01:17:24,640 --> 01:17:26,520 when this ends is keep being loud. 1829 01:17:26,520 --> 01:17:28,280 And I do feel much safer being loud. 1830 01:17:28,440 --> 01:17:30,760 I feel so much safer being loud. Isn't that funny? 1831 01:17:31,160 --> 01:17:33,720 I had a funny conversation. I called the FB is field office 1832 01:17:33,720 --> 01:17:35,960 and I found the investigator who who got me thrown out of the 1833 01:17:35,960 --> 01:17:37,800 office and it was for BS charges. 1834 01:17:37,800 --> 01:17:39,680 Like I was out shooting in the desert in the middle of public 1835 01:17:39,680 --> 01:17:40,960 land. It was like 20 miles of desert. 1836 01:17:40,960 --> 01:17:42,640 Nobody cares. Oh my God, I have to tell you 1837 01:17:42,640 --> 01:17:43,320 something. When you're done. 1838 01:17:43,320 --> 01:17:46,360 Yeah. You tell me now and I I know my 1839 01:17:46,360 --> 01:17:47,400 story. You tell me your story. 1840 01:17:47,560 --> 01:17:51,840 Speaking of like BS charges, like they're, they're, they're 1841 01:17:52,560 --> 01:17:55,720 the like, he's the chief information officer at Amazon. 1842 01:17:56,120 --> 01:17:59,080 He was a former FBI guy, wasn't a special agent. 1843 01:17:59,080 --> 01:18:03,320 He was like an IT guy. He was accused while at the FBI 1844 01:18:03,600 --> 01:18:07,080 of charging a private plane ride home from an assignment on a 1845 01:18:07,080 --> 01:18:08,880 government credit card without authorization. 1846 01:18:10,040 --> 01:18:12,240 He wasn't kicked out of the FBI, no. 1847 01:18:12,400 --> 01:18:14,240 What is? This and like you're like 1848 01:18:14,480 --> 01:18:16,160 shooting a guy in the desert and they're like, you're out like 1849 01:18:16,160 --> 01:18:18,320 this. I'm, I'm, I'm literally wearing 1850 01:18:18,320 --> 01:18:21,880 my duty belt and my badge on my belt and I am doing training, 1851 01:18:22,040 --> 01:18:24,440 handgun training because if I have to ever draw my weapon, I 1852 01:18:24,440 --> 01:18:26,640 want to be precise and I want to be accurate because I might save 1853 01:18:26,640 --> 01:18:29,200 a life that way, whether it be at my church or whether it be on 1854 01:18:29,200 --> 01:18:30,520 duty, it doesn't make a difference. 1855 01:18:30,800 --> 01:18:33,160 I want to take shots that are only good shots and I want to be 1856 01:18:33,160 --> 01:18:35,080 disciplined on him and I want to be fast and all the things. 1857 01:18:35,280 --> 01:18:37,480 So I'm out there doing that. And this woman from 1858 01:18:37,480 --> 01:18:39,080 headquarters, I called her up and she didn't know what I 1859 01:18:39,240 --> 01:18:41,840 recorded her for an hour and 8 minutes because that's, you 1860 01:18:41,840 --> 01:18:43,480 know, she's in a one party consent state and so am I. 1861 01:18:43,800 --> 01:18:45,720 So let's do this. So I, I recorded her and she 1862 01:18:45,720 --> 01:18:48,000 started counseling me and she was like, you, all the things 1863 01:18:48,000 --> 01:18:50,120 you're doing because I'd already gone public with the media. 1864 01:18:50,560 --> 01:18:53,240 She's like, you know, my son is crying in the background while 1865 01:18:53,240 --> 01:18:54,720 this, like while this taping is going on. 1866 01:18:54,720 --> 01:18:56,440 It's kind of funny because I put it on the Internet. 1867 01:18:56,440 --> 01:18:58,240 So like, screw it. I was like, I'm, I'm 100% 1868 01:18:58,240 --> 01:19:00,040 transparent. Here's the body Cam footage of 1869 01:19:00,040 --> 01:19:01,400 what I did. Like people can go see it. 1870 01:19:01,600 --> 01:19:03,880 If you're new to our channel, go back and look, it's, there's a 1871 01:19:04,040 --> 01:19:05,440 whole thing called why I got suspended. 1872 01:19:06,000 --> 01:19:09,240 And then it mixes in the this woman's conversation with me and 1873 01:19:09,240 --> 01:19:10,960 she's like, all the things you're doing just, you need to 1874 01:19:11,600 --> 01:19:15,200 stop moving. And, and she was like, you're 1875 01:19:15,200 --> 01:19:17,720 making things more complicated for yourself. 1876 01:19:17,720 --> 01:19:19,480 And I'm like, no, I'm making it really simple. 1877 01:19:19,760 --> 01:19:23,320 I only have one path forward. It's incredibly loud and it's 1878 01:19:23,440 --> 01:19:26,280 full transparency, radical transparency, things that you 1879 01:19:26,280 --> 01:19:27,480 guys are not comfortable with me on. 1880 01:19:27,480 --> 01:19:30,600 Last night I publicized a an e-mail that I forgot I had and I 1881 01:19:30,600 --> 01:19:32,360 redacted the names of people that I like. 1882 01:19:32,360 --> 01:19:34,120 And I left the names of the people that are the senior 1883 01:19:34,120 --> 01:19:36,040 executives that were in it, including the phone number for 1884 01:19:36,040 --> 01:19:38,720 the chief diversity officer, who's a former FBI agent and 1885 01:19:38,720 --> 01:19:40,800 then got promoted because he's a black guy to be in charge of 1886 01:19:40,800 --> 01:19:44,120 diversity of all things. And they said in the e-mail, we 1887 01:19:44,120 --> 01:19:47,600 are going to hire people from historically black colleges and 1888 01:19:47,600 --> 01:19:50,760 universities over any other applicants, regardless of the 1889 01:19:50,760 --> 01:19:55,240 year in major because, because diversity, because we need to 1890 01:19:55,240 --> 01:19:58,240 hire black people, Which is insane to me because I had great 1891 01:19:58,240 --> 01:20:01,240 friends that on my, you know, on my squads who were black. 1892 01:20:01,240 --> 01:20:02,240 But it wasn't because they were black. 1893 01:20:02,240 --> 01:20:03,440 It's because they were just awesome guys. 1894 01:20:03,440 --> 01:20:05,400 Like they were just good dudes. And there was a couple of good 1895 01:20:05,400 --> 01:20:07,480 girls that I worked with that were actually at the, you know, 1896 01:20:07,480 --> 01:20:10,520 girls, gals, whatever, that were at my Academy class. 1897 01:20:10,520 --> 01:20:12,440 And they were studs. Like they were fast and they 1898 01:20:12,440 --> 01:20:13,920 could shoot and they could wrestle and they were like the 1899 01:20:13,920 --> 01:20:16,400 things you want to work with and who cares what color your skin 1900 01:20:16,400 --> 01:20:17,240 is? I thought that was the whole 1901 01:20:17,240 --> 01:20:18,560 point of what I grew up in the 80s. 1902 01:20:18,560 --> 01:20:21,280 I thought we were over that. And then we get this e-mail and 1903 01:20:21,280 --> 01:20:25,800 it literally says regardless of their of their their major and 1904 01:20:25,800 --> 01:20:28,600 regardless of the year of study, these people need to be 1905 01:20:28,600 --> 01:20:31,000 interviewed for the job. And with the implicit sort of 1906 01:20:31,000 --> 01:20:32,040 like that, you have to hire them. 1907 01:20:32,320 --> 01:20:37,640 Amazingly, at least to me, that is an incredibly, incredibly 1908 01:20:37,640 --> 01:20:39,360 valuable and competitive program. 1909 01:20:39,800 --> 01:20:42,240 So like we would get people that had, you know, master's degrees 1910 01:20:42,240 --> 01:20:45,800 coming out of Yale and security studies that had 810 years of 1911 01:20:45,800 --> 01:20:48,040 like military experience and then went back to grad school. 1912 01:20:48,040 --> 01:20:50,440 And then they come out for this internship because you get a top 1913 01:20:50,440 --> 01:20:53,360 secret security clearance. You can walk into a you can walk 1914 01:20:53,360 --> 01:20:54,720 into a six figure government job with it. 1915 01:20:55,040 --> 01:20:56,920 And we are giving them out to people based on race. 1916 01:20:57,200 --> 01:20:58,720 So I published that too. It's like, screw it. 1917 01:20:58,720 --> 01:21:01,720 Like all radical transparency. Everything should be explicit. 1918 01:21:01,880 --> 01:21:03,440 The louder you are, the safer you are. 1919 01:21:03,440 --> 01:21:06,040 And you're exactly right with that instinct, I think because 1920 01:21:06,040 --> 01:21:07,000 they didn't know what. To do with me. 1921 01:21:07,320 --> 01:21:08,280 Yeah. I mean, I also think that like 1922 01:21:08,440 --> 01:21:10,600 talking about radical transparency from what I've 1923 01:21:10,600 --> 01:21:13,360 learned about the FBI. And again, this is just like, as 1924 01:21:13,400 --> 01:21:16,440 someone who's been on the other side of an investigation, like 1925 01:21:16,440 --> 01:21:20,120 it was really mind blowing to me that when the government, when 1926 01:21:20,120 --> 01:21:23,200 the FBI interviews someone, even in this modern age where we all 1927 01:21:23,200 --> 01:21:26,120 carry recorders in our pockets, the government, the FBI doesn't 1928 01:21:26,120 --> 01:21:29,200 record the interview. They take notes. 1929 01:21:29,320 --> 01:21:32,560 And then those notes to are typed up into a memo, and then 1930 01:21:32,560 --> 01:21:34,600 that memo is the official record of what happened. 1931 01:21:35,400 --> 01:21:37,960 This is my recorder. I recorded every interview that 1932 01:21:37,960 --> 01:21:39,160 I could. I brought my own. 1933 01:21:39,160 --> 01:21:40,840 I paid for it with my own money. You know why? 1934 01:21:40,840 --> 01:21:42,640 Because I can send it to the defense attorney and we don't 1935 01:21:42,640 --> 01:21:43,880 have any disagreement. But what was? 1936 01:21:44,400 --> 01:21:46,120 Why wouldn't every agent want to do that? 1937 01:21:46,120 --> 01:21:48,040 Why wouldn't the? Agent, it was $85. 1938 01:21:48,040 --> 01:21:50,160 I make plenty of good money. When I was working as an agent, 1939 01:21:50,160 --> 01:21:53,320 I had a six figure gig and I can afford an 85 dollar thing and I 1940 01:21:53,320 --> 01:21:55,160 would put on the table and I would say the same thing every 1941 01:21:55,160 --> 01:21:56,920 single time. I'd like to record this with 1942 01:21:56,920 --> 01:21:58,880 your permission, I will send you a copy of it. 1943 01:21:58,880 --> 01:22:01,160 Please give me a business card or an address right now and you 1944 01:22:01,160 --> 01:22:02,800 will get a copy of it and I'll send one to your defense 1945 01:22:02,800 --> 01:22:04,240 attorney on the government's time. 1946 01:22:04,240 --> 01:22:06,320 It's easy days. That is like that. 1947 01:22:06,320 --> 01:22:09,440 That to me, would revolutionize the FBI. 1948 01:22:09,440 --> 01:22:10,920 You. Want to know another thing? 1949 01:22:11,000 --> 01:22:13,000 It's policy that they do it, that they record. 1950 01:22:13,880 --> 01:22:16,640 It's policy. Yeah, It's permissive policy, 1951 01:22:16,640 --> 01:22:18,200 though. It's a it's a may, but not 1952 01:22:18,200 --> 01:22:19,280 shall. And here's why. 1953 01:22:19,280 --> 01:22:24,360 It says when feasible, all interviews should be recorded. 1954 01:22:24,920 --> 01:22:26,560 So all they have to say is, well, like I didn't get a 1955 01:22:26,560 --> 01:22:28,840 government issued recorder. We don't issue them. 1956 01:22:28,840 --> 01:22:31,480 And so it's not feasible. If we did a field interview, I 1957 01:22:31,480 --> 01:22:34,160 brought this, I recorded phone interviews, I would put it on 1958 01:22:34,160 --> 01:22:35,440 speaker. I would let people know exactly 1959 01:22:35,440 --> 01:22:37,000 what's going to happen. Hey, I'd like to record this for 1960 01:22:37,000 --> 01:22:38,840 your, you know, for our both of our safety. 1961 01:22:39,280 --> 01:22:41,040 I want you to have a copy of it and then I would do direct 1962 01:22:41,040 --> 01:22:43,280 quotes out of it. When I did my 3O2, the three O 2 1963 01:22:43,280 --> 01:22:45,440 is the testimonial document that you would that you received 1964 01:22:45,920 --> 01:22:48,120 along with those notes. But like I don't take notes. 1965 01:22:48,120 --> 01:22:49,360 Why I have the words? That's so. 1966 01:22:49,400 --> 01:22:51,000 I mean so. It doesn't matter. 1967 01:22:51,000 --> 01:22:53,240 I'm just paying attention to what you say and then we'll go 1968 01:22:53,240 --> 01:22:55,160 back and we'll just see what that conversation looks like. 1969 01:22:55,480 --> 01:22:56,800 Like I'm pretty good at talking to people. 1970 01:22:56,800 --> 01:22:58,720 I've got a pretty good memory. That's why I got hired. 1971 01:22:59,120 --> 01:23:01,960 And moreover, your defense attorney can hear exactly what 1972 01:23:01,960 --> 01:23:03,240 it was you said. And when I would do it with an 1973 01:23:03,320 --> 01:23:06,200 attorney present, I would hell him right on front on the camera 1974 01:23:06,200 --> 01:23:09,200 or on the on the recording. It's it's like, listen, this is 1975 01:23:09,200 --> 01:23:10,760 your client. Your job is to protect your 1976 01:23:10,760 --> 01:23:12,360 client. My job is to ask your client 1977 01:23:12,360 --> 01:23:14,280 questions. Please make sure that they refer 1978 01:23:14,280 --> 01:23:15,320 to you before answering anything. 1979 01:23:15,320 --> 01:23:17,360 If you want them to like put a hand up and I won't, I'll just 1980 01:23:17,360 --> 01:23:18,840 wait. Like I just care about the 1981 01:23:18,840 --> 01:23:20,600 truth. I don't get paid by winning the 1982 01:23:20,600 --> 01:23:22,840 cases. There's literally no incentives. 1983 01:23:22,840 --> 01:23:25,200 I don't care. So, like, The thing is, is like, 1984 01:23:25,400 --> 01:23:27,800 if it's about the truth, like that's the way the system is 1985 01:23:27,800 --> 01:23:30,600 supposed to work. Like in our case, I know from of 1986 01:23:30,600 --> 01:23:33,520 the emails that like when Amazon accused my husband of a crime to 1987 01:23:33,520 --> 01:23:37,800 avoid a million, $100 million in damages, the prosecutors in the 1988 01:23:37,800 --> 01:23:40,320 Eastern District of Virginia lined up their press office. 1989 01:23:41,680 --> 01:23:45,960 Of course. I mean, that's ridiculous, yeah. 1990 01:23:46,120 --> 01:23:48,040 I don't have time for that. That's not what I signed up for, 1991 01:23:48,720 --> 01:23:50,120 and I know there's a lot of people that didn't. 1992 01:23:50,320 --> 01:23:52,680 The problem is plenty of people are going to look down the 1993 01:23:52,680 --> 01:23:55,960 barrel and say, well, if I have a big case, I can brief it 1994 01:23:55,960 --> 01:23:57,720 forever. I can take a headquarters 1995 01:23:57,720 --> 01:24:00,320 position, I can go be a program manager or unit chief. 1996 01:24:00,320 --> 01:24:02,280 I can come back in and be a supervisor of a squad. 1997 01:24:02,280 --> 01:24:03,760 I can promote to ASAC. And like what? 1998 01:24:03,840 --> 01:24:07,400 Are they looking at Amazon? I mean, that's the other piece, 1999 01:24:07,480 --> 01:24:09,240 right? So that's not, that would never 2000 01:24:09,240 --> 01:24:11,320 even factor into my brain that existed until recently. 2001 01:24:11,320 --> 01:24:14,120 But that is a that is a thing that goes on because we've been 2002 01:24:14,120 --> 01:24:16,440 watching out like the guy who used to run the Washington field 2003 01:24:16,440 --> 01:24:18,800 office who would have been in charge during this time, Steve 2004 01:24:18,800 --> 01:24:20,920 Deantuano, he just went and became a partner. 2005 01:24:20,920 --> 01:24:22,160 What was the where did he go, Phil? 2006 01:24:22,160 --> 01:24:25,120 What's he where? He's a partner at KP and G. 2007 01:24:25,400 --> 01:24:28,120 So he went and and yeah, like, what the hell does he know about 2008 01:24:28,120 --> 01:24:29,680 accounting? I can promise you nothing. 2009 01:24:30,120 --> 01:24:32,640 Like not he hasn't done accounting in in 15 years. 2010 01:24:33,040 --> 01:24:34,760 He hasn't been working cases in 15 years. 2011 01:24:34,920 --> 01:24:36,240 So they're not bringing a skill set. 2012 01:24:36,480 --> 01:24:39,720 But it's so easy to record just dialing back into what's so 2013 01:24:39,720 --> 01:24:41,760 crazy. And so you experienced this in a 2014 01:24:41,760 --> 01:24:44,200 funny way, not funny, but like quirky. 2015 01:24:44,200 --> 01:24:46,720 I would say that they're out there taking notes and that 2016 01:24:46,720 --> 01:24:48,320 notes got scanned in. So you got a copy of that in 2017 01:24:48,320 --> 01:24:50,520 your discovery? Well, we never, so we actually 2018 01:24:50,520 --> 01:24:53,320 never did because Carl's never charged with a crime and that. 2019 01:24:53,320 --> 01:24:55,680 And so of course, the way the way we got. 2020 01:24:55,680 --> 01:24:56,600 That's what you would have gotten though. 2021 01:24:56,600 --> 01:24:57,440 That's what we would have gotten. 2022 01:24:57,440 --> 01:25:01,000 And the way that the way that we got all the emails between 2023 01:25:01,000 --> 01:25:04,200 Amazon and DOJ is that when Amazon could not get the 2024 01:25:04,200 --> 01:25:06,400 criminal charges they were spending millions lobbying for, 2025 01:25:06,400 --> 01:25:07,880 they sued everyone in civil court. 2026 01:25:08,080 --> 01:25:10,320 They did not move that case forward while they were in the 2027 01:25:10,320 --> 01:25:13,920 background meeting with DOJ, but they kept the lawsuit going to 2028 01:25:14,040 --> 01:25:16,400 try to like deprive people of money essentially. 2029 01:25:16,680 --> 01:25:18,600 And we have forced that into trial. 2030 01:25:18,600 --> 01:25:21,360 It is going to trial on May 1st like the defendants have forced 2031 01:25:21,360 --> 01:25:23,760 it to a trial date. So that's coming to a head, 2032 01:25:24,400 --> 01:25:27,160 right, which is great. And we're my husband is so 2033 01:25:27,160 --> 01:25:28,480 looking forward to his day in court. 2034 01:25:29,680 --> 01:25:32,080 Yeah, and let's plan on doing another one of these and, and 2035 01:25:32,080 --> 01:25:34,720 doing a reaction 'cause I want, I want the, I want Part 2, the 2036 01:25:34,720 --> 01:25:36,640 wrap up when you guys actually see what happens. 2037 01:25:36,920 --> 01:25:38,880 I'm sure they'll appeal it whatever that happens, but. 2038 01:25:39,240 --> 01:25:41,920 But during the in in between, just to wrap that part up, like 2039 01:25:41,920 --> 01:25:45,040 we did litigate, when your money is taken by civil forfeiture and 2040 01:25:45,040 --> 01:25:47,520 you're not charged with a crime, the government has to file a 2041 01:25:47,520 --> 01:25:49,320 civil lawsuit against the bank account. 2042 01:25:49,320 --> 01:25:52,400 So the bank account is the defendant and then you as the 2043 01:25:52,400 --> 01:25:55,240 human being have to pay for the bank account's defense. 2044 01:25:55,280 --> 01:25:57,760 And we did that. And so the government. 2045 01:25:57,760 --> 01:26:00,480 Say, say that one more time for people to like grasp because I I 2046 01:26:00,480 --> 01:26:01,800 don't think it's easy to grasp it. 2047 01:26:02,240 --> 01:26:06,800 Civil asset forfeiture The defendant is a is a a non thing. 2048 01:26:07,240 --> 01:26:08,440 It's a bank account, it's a house. 2049 01:26:08,440 --> 01:26:09,400 It's like the address of the house. 2050 01:26:09,400 --> 01:26:10,960 So ours it's. Your Ferrari. 2051 01:26:11,600 --> 01:26:14,680 It was like USB-4, like they choose one of the they seize 2052 01:26:14,680 --> 01:26:18,280 multiple bank accounts far. So it was like USB $4780 at 2053 01:26:18,280 --> 01:26:20,840 Wells Fargo and that's the case. Right. 2054 01:26:21,280 --> 01:26:24,280 So then the government, they filed the complaint and then 2055 01:26:24,440 --> 01:26:27,880 they stayed the complaint. They didn't want to litigate it, 2056 01:26:27,920 --> 01:26:29,280 and the judge gave them six months. 2057 01:26:29,440 --> 01:26:31,840 Then they stayed it again, and they wanted six more. 2058 01:26:31,840 --> 01:26:32,920 Months. So they're kicking this down the 2059 01:26:32,920 --> 01:26:34,280 cans that you're still dealing with. 2060 01:26:34,280 --> 01:26:35,960 Nothing we can do, right? Nothing we can do. 2061 01:26:36,480 --> 01:26:38,600 So the government the second time was like you get 4 months 2062 01:26:38,960 --> 01:26:41,080 and then that four months was up and I was like, yes, we get to 2063 01:26:41,080 --> 01:26:43,120 litigate. We get I want them to prove, see 2064 01:26:43,120 --> 01:26:46,760 if they prove their case and when it's a civil burden. 2065 01:26:46,760 --> 01:26:48,480 So it's just more likely than not, right? 2066 01:26:48,720 --> 01:26:50,120 Yeah, proponents of the evidence, right? 2067 01:26:50,400 --> 01:26:53,880 The day, the day comes that the government has to prove their 2068 01:26:53,880 --> 01:26:55,600 case and they're like, do you want to settle? 2069 01:26:58,440 --> 01:27:01,200 So we were like we by the. Way they're they're terrified of 2070 01:27:01,200 --> 01:27:04,440 going to trial. My buddies who were AUSAS told 2071 01:27:04,440 --> 01:27:08,800 me that the new generation of US attorneys and the new generation 2072 01:27:08,800 --> 01:27:11,080 of assistant US attorneys, which is the frontline prosecutors, 2073 01:27:11,360 --> 01:27:14,600 they have 0 court experience. A lot of times they are used to 2074 01:27:14,600 --> 01:27:17,680 plea deals, like you said. And they are so scared of being 2075 01:27:17,680 --> 01:27:21,280 like, put up against, you know, legitimate defense attorneys who 2076 01:27:21,280 --> 01:27:23,600 used to actually go to court because it used to be that like, 2077 01:27:23,600 --> 01:27:25,440 that's where the battle is. Yeah. 2078 01:27:25,480 --> 01:27:28,760 You know, like for the F for the FBI agent, it's it's like, I 2079 01:27:28,760 --> 01:27:31,280 want to go to court if you like, like, first of all, I want to 2080 01:27:31,280 --> 01:27:33,120 come and win right away. I want to be able to show you so 2081 01:27:33,120 --> 01:27:34,400 much stuff that you don't have any choice. 2082 01:27:34,480 --> 01:27:36,480 That's really good if you have a righteous case. 2083 01:27:36,680 --> 01:27:39,800 But if they're going to contest it, you know, that's the that's 2084 01:27:39,800 --> 01:27:42,000 where you get to show like, hey, we did really good work here. 2085 01:27:42,560 --> 01:27:45,880 And when you don't have it, when it's not there, there is nothing 2086 01:27:45,880 --> 01:27:47,400 scarier. I have to imagine then knowing 2087 01:27:47,400 --> 01:27:49,560 that your reputation and your future jobs as a defense 2088 01:27:49,560 --> 01:27:51,960 attorney and whatever else that you think you're going to go to, 2089 01:27:51,960 --> 01:27:53,440 you're about to lose. You're going to have a losing 2090 01:27:53,440 --> 01:27:54,840 court record. And it's not going to be a lot 2091 01:27:54,840 --> 01:27:58,080 against a lot. It's going to be pled down 98%, 2092 01:27:58,120 --> 01:28:00,240 lost every time I went out in front of a jury. 2093 01:28:00,520 --> 01:28:02,160 That's not good. Yeah. 2094 01:28:02,160 --> 01:28:05,560 And so like they, they said you want to settle and we wanted to 2095 01:28:05,560 --> 01:28:08,560 ask for 100% back and we didn't think we'd get it. 2096 01:28:08,560 --> 01:28:10,360 So we're like, fine, we'll ask for 85% back. 2097 01:28:10,680 --> 01:28:11,800 The government did not negotiate. 2098 01:28:11,800 --> 01:28:15,600 They just gave us 85% back and we had to sign something saying 2099 01:28:15,600 --> 01:28:17,360 we wouldn't sue them. Right. 2100 01:28:18,240 --> 01:28:21,080 Isn't that something? So all they did was deprive you 2101 01:28:21,080 --> 01:28:24,240 of your resources? Take 15% of 15% of your net 2102 01:28:24,240 --> 01:28:26,640 worth I assume. Yeah, and then after Amazon got 2103 01:28:26,640 --> 01:28:29,200 the civil forfeiture, then Amazon sued my husband in civil 2104 01:28:29,200 --> 01:28:30,880 court. So they they deprived my husband 2105 01:28:30,880 --> 01:28:33,240 of being able to defend himself against a trillion dollar 2106 01:28:33,240 --> 01:28:39,160 company in civil court like. It's disgusting. 2107 01:28:39,600 --> 01:28:40,800 It's so gross. It's so. 2108 01:28:40,800 --> 01:28:44,040 And here's you know, I know. It's unfair and we know it's 2109 01:28:44,040 --> 01:28:46,760 unfair, but it like everybody, everyone goes, yeah, of course 2110 01:28:46,760 --> 01:28:47,920 it's unfair. You're like, yeah, but you 2111 01:28:47,920 --> 01:28:50,320 haven't experienced it. Like there's a fundamental part 2112 01:28:50,320 --> 01:28:52,000 of your body that knows what fairness is like. 2113 01:28:52,000 --> 01:28:54,320 Human beings know from a very young age your your little 2114 01:28:54,320 --> 01:28:56,800 children know if you gave one person a biscuit and the other 2115 01:28:56,800 --> 01:28:59,000 one didn't get a biscuit, like they'd be pissed even if they 2116 01:28:59,000 --> 01:29:01,080 don't like biscuits. My 8 year old. 2117 01:29:01,080 --> 01:29:04,360 We, we did that last night. I'm just saying, I just, I, I 2118 01:29:04,400 --> 01:29:05,480 mess with my oldest all the time. 2119 01:29:05,480 --> 01:29:06,600 I'm like, sorry, we're out of biscuits. 2120 01:29:07,240 --> 01:29:09,040 No biscuits. My oldest is 8 now and she 2121 01:29:09,040 --> 01:29:10,600 knows. She knows now. 2122 01:29:11,000 --> 01:29:11,800 They know what's right and. Wrong. 2123 01:29:11,800 --> 01:29:13,640 She knows what's right and wrong, but she knows about 2124 01:29:13,640 --> 01:29:17,800 what's going on with Amazon and the the thing she always asks me 2125 01:29:17,960 --> 01:29:20,360 is why? Why wouldn't Amazon talk to 2126 01:29:20,360 --> 01:29:22,040 Daddy when they thought he did something wrong? 2127 01:29:22,640 --> 01:29:24,720 Why did they make accusations about talking to Daddy? 2128 01:29:25,200 --> 01:29:26,200 That's. The thing that we would teach 2129 01:29:26,200 --> 01:29:28,720 them to do. Well, in my, in one of my latest 2130 01:29:28,720 --> 01:29:31,800 emails to Jeff Bezos, I asked him that I, I pointed out when 2131 01:29:31,800 --> 01:29:33,920 my 8 year old asked because it's worse than that. 2132 01:29:33,920 --> 01:29:36,280 When my husband, when the FBI showed up at her house on April 2133 01:29:36,280 --> 01:29:39,720 2nd, my husband had his lawyers call Amazon and say I would like 2134 01:29:39,720 --> 01:29:41,080 to talk to you. I don't understand this, what 2135 01:29:41,080 --> 01:29:43,400 this is about. But I, I'm happy to share 2136 01:29:43,400 --> 01:29:44,920 anything with you like you know everything. 2137 01:29:45,280 --> 01:29:47,960 And Amazon's lawyer said we will not speak to you unless you are 2138 01:29:47,960 --> 01:29:52,280 pleading guilty to a crime. Isn't that something that's so 2139 01:29:52,280 --> 01:29:54,640 disgusting? Yeah, that's why I think it's 2140 01:29:54,640 --> 01:29:57,480 like the most clear example of corporate weaponization of DOJ 2141 01:29:57,480 --> 01:29:59,200 that you could ever see. It's just. 2142 01:29:59,200 --> 01:30:01,920 And I am, and I have to imagine that the for the one of you, 2143 01:30:02,320 --> 01:30:05,920 there's 9 1/2 other people that rolled over and didn't get to 2144 01:30:05,920 --> 01:30:07,760 that point, even though they were right to. 2145 01:30:08,040 --> 01:30:10,000 Well, I believe so. Like in this instance nobody 2146 01:30:10,000 --> 01:30:12,640 rolled over but like IA 100%. Well, I'm saying not in your 2147 01:30:12,640 --> 01:30:14,640 case, I'm saying in other, in the other cases, because this is 2148 01:30:14,640 --> 01:30:15,880 a tech. Here's the thing that we know, 2149 01:30:16,000 --> 01:30:17,560 like you don't try techniques that fail. 2150 01:30:17,880 --> 01:30:19,120 You try techniques that are affect. 2151 01:30:19,160 --> 01:30:21,360 Like these are companies, they they adjust their fire and they 2152 01:30:21,360 --> 01:30:22,760 and they make, you know, accurate shots. 2153 01:30:23,200 --> 01:30:26,720 So this this had a probability of winning that was beyond, you 2154 01:30:26,720 --> 01:30:27,920 know, a reasonable doubt for them. 2155 01:30:28,040 --> 01:30:31,320 It was almost 100% right because they accused multiple people, 2156 01:30:31,320 --> 01:30:34,240 each with a 98.2%. You know, if you get one person 2157 01:30:34,240 --> 01:30:35,160 to plead guilty, you're going to. 2158 01:30:35,200 --> 01:30:35,760 Right. Yeah. 2159 01:30:35,760 --> 01:30:38,240 And they're basically playing stacked odds that like any one 2160 01:30:38,240 --> 01:30:40,320 of them could have. Fallen and it's funny because I 2161 01:30:40,320 --> 01:30:42,600 always say to my husband, like, what was their Plan B? 2162 01:30:42,600 --> 01:30:45,400 He's like they had no Plan B. Because they don't lose. 2163 01:30:45,720 --> 01:30:47,640 They don't lose. Amazon never expected to go to 2164 01:30:47,640 --> 01:30:50,080 trial in the civil case. The government never expected to 2165 01:30:50,080 --> 01:30:51,600 be here. They never like, they don't 2166 01:30:51,600 --> 01:30:53,200 give. I'll just point this out. 2167 01:30:53,360 --> 01:30:55,480 The government does not give money back in civil forfeiture. 2168 01:30:55,760 --> 01:30:59,840 Like it barely ever happens. Like we were told no matter 2169 01:30:59,840 --> 01:31:01,320 what, we probably never going to die back. 2170 01:31:01,600 --> 01:31:02,960 It's just going to be the way it was going to be. 2171 01:31:03,400 --> 01:31:05,720 I would agree with that. That's, that's the my limited 2172 01:31:05,720 --> 01:31:08,400 experience, but being, you know, tangentially associated with 2173 01:31:08,400 --> 01:31:09,360 people that did that kind of work. 2174 01:31:09,360 --> 01:31:11,680 And, and usually it's because the people have no case to stand 2175 01:31:11,680 --> 01:31:14,320 on because they're gangsters or they're drug dealers or whatever 2176 01:31:14,320 --> 01:31:15,880 they are. I mean, that's, that's, I mean, 2177 01:31:15,880 --> 01:31:17,880 that's what happens. So the odds that somebody even 2178 01:31:17,880 --> 01:31:19,960 stood up to the process is probably just like completely 2179 01:31:19,960 --> 01:31:23,120 foreign to the to the civil apps that coordinator in the in the 2180 01:31:23,120 --> 01:31:24,880 field office who probably hasn't had to deal with this before, 2181 01:31:24,880 --> 01:31:26,320 like contested. What are you talking about? 2182 01:31:26,320 --> 01:31:29,320 Like there are emails between the the the forfeiture 2183 01:31:29,320 --> 01:31:32,880 prosecutor and Amazon that are now public where like the the 2184 01:31:33,120 --> 01:31:37,880 the prosecutor wrote to Amazon's lawyer, we seized the money too 2185 01:31:37,880 --> 01:31:41,360 early. What? 2186 01:31:41,400 --> 01:31:42,960 What does that? Even mean like you didn't have 2187 01:31:42,960 --> 01:31:44,960 probable cause but you didn't like but like. 2188 01:31:45,480 --> 01:31:47,520 No, it means that they they overshot their hand, they took 2189 01:31:47,520 --> 01:31:49,320 their shot when that, you know, when it wasn't lined up and 2190 01:31:49,320 --> 01:31:50,400 that's obviously what's the case. 2191 01:31:50,400 --> 01:31:52,360 It's just it's, it's so incredible. 2192 01:31:52,840 --> 01:31:55,200 It's it's incredible how many parallels, you know, you you're 2193 01:31:55,200 --> 01:31:56,320 fighting it from the outside of it. 2194 01:31:56,320 --> 01:32:00,560 I'm watching it from the inside. But you talk about like, they 2195 01:32:00,560 --> 01:32:02,800 had no backup plan. They have no backup plan for me. 2196 01:32:02,960 --> 01:32:04,480 It's like suspended security clearance. 2197 01:32:04,480 --> 01:32:06,680 Take away his money and then he'll just go away. 2198 01:32:06,680 --> 01:32:08,680 That's what they do. They just resign and they go get 2199 01:32:08,680 --> 01:32:10,440 another job somewhere and they're not our problem. 2200 01:32:10,800 --> 01:32:14,120 And it's like, guess, yeah, It's like, guess what, suckers? 2201 01:32:14,120 --> 01:32:16,000 Like I had money put away. I've been doing this for a long 2202 01:32:16,000 --> 01:32:17,280 time. And like, I thought that as a 2203 01:32:17,280 --> 01:32:20,200 national security person, it's my responsibility to be able to 2204 01:32:20,200 --> 01:32:21,640 go for a couple years without a paycheck. 2205 01:32:22,200 --> 01:32:24,280 Like I'd be a fool to think that I'm going to be able to like I, 2206 01:32:24,280 --> 01:32:27,440 I made $30,000 a year before I got hired on by the FBI. 2207 01:32:27,800 --> 01:32:30,600 You know, I, I, I made $100,000 working as a financial analyst. 2208 01:32:30,720 --> 01:32:33,960 I made $18,000 when I was 27 and enlisted in the military. 2209 01:32:33,960 --> 01:32:35,040 And I did that for almost 4 years. 2210 01:32:35,120 --> 01:32:37,080 So I made no money. And you really learn how to 2211 01:32:37,080 --> 01:32:39,560 adjust your life on to nothing. And then my wife and I were 2212 01:32:39,560 --> 01:32:42,280 working together and she made 30 and I made 30. 2213 01:32:42,280 --> 01:32:44,840 She was like a, like a nonprofit counselor in Texas. 2214 01:32:45,080 --> 01:32:47,000 So we didn't make any money. I was working on, on an 2215 01:32:47,000 --> 01:32:48,200 ambulance. So you don't make any money 2216 01:32:48,200 --> 01:32:49,960 doing an ambulance. And I help people in the ER and 2217 01:32:49,960 --> 01:32:52,400 that was cool. And then, you know, she got a 2218 01:32:52,400 --> 01:32:54,840 job with Aetna working as a counselor, like over the phone 2219 01:32:54,880 --> 01:32:57,600 and they paid her $55,000 a year, which was the most either 2220 01:32:57,600 --> 01:32:59,680 one has ever made. And we're like, we're killing 2221 01:32:59,680 --> 01:33:01,200 it. And then so I stopped working. 2222 01:33:01,200 --> 01:33:03,240 I went to the FBI. When I got the FBI job, she 2223 01:33:03,240 --> 01:33:05,600 stopped working. She started having babies and, 2224 01:33:05,840 --> 01:33:09,120 and literally, you know, my last salary IS120125. 2225 01:33:09,120 --> 01:33:10,040 Like these are all public records. 2226 01:33:10,040 --> 01:33:12,680 So I just say I was A131 and you know, any other part of the US. 2227 01:33:12,680 --> 01:33:15,760 So I'm making $120,000 a year, which is not a lot of money, but 2228 01:33:15,760 --> 01:33:17,360 it was more than enough for what we had done. 2229 01:33:17,800 --> 01:33:19,640 I mean we were doing fine. I bought guns left and right. 2230 01:33:19,640 --> 01:33:21,000 People were like where's your money coming from? 2231 01:33:21,000 --> 01:33:24,360 I'm like, I saved like crazy. We have a very inexpensive life. 2232 01:33:24,760 --> 01:33:27,160 You know, we have a 0 down mortgage from the VA because I 2233 01:33:27,160 --> 01:33:30,600 was a disabled vet and my wife doesn't buy anything. 2234 01:33:30,600 --> 01:33:32,560 She buys organic foods. That's her luxury item. 2235 01:33:32,760 --> 01:33:34,440 She doesn't buy shoes, she doesn't buy purses, she doesn't 2236 01:33:34,440 --> 01:33:36,160 buy clothes. I probably spent more money on 2237 01:33:36,160 --> 01:33:38,680 clothes this year than, well last year at least than my wife 2238 01:33:38,680 --> 01:33:39,600 did. Like the whole time I've known 2239 01:33:39,600 --> 01:33:40,960 her, she just doesn't spend money. 2240 01:33:41,120 --> 01:33:43,720 So we're frugal, that's it. And then we were able to go do 2241 01:33:43,720 --> 01:33:45,040 this thing and so now they don't know what to do. 2242 01:33:45,040 --> 01:33:49,120 They're like, so this guy, you know, like I have friends that 2243 01:33:49,120 --> 01:33:51,600 are like, they know we're not like the the FBI director has 2244 01:33:51,600 --> 01:33:53,440 been briefed on my name and that I'm a problem. 2245 01:33:56,280 --> 01:33:57,640 I am. But wait, wait till tomorrow 2246 01:33:57,640 --> 01:34:00,640 because tomorrow we're we're putting out AAI may or may not 2247 01:34:00,640 --> 01:34:02,800 be working with the Daily Wire on a story that they did that 2248 01:34:02,800 --> 01:34:04,680 they're quoting me on. But Chris Ray's going to have to 2249 01:34:04,680 --> 01:34:07,200 answer for, you know, somewhere upwards of a million and a half 2250 01:34:07,200 --> 01:34:09,040 dollars of discretionary spending on his jet that he 2251 01:34:09,040 --> 01:34:11,560 shouldn't have done. So we're pushing the envelope 2252 01:34:11,560 --> 01:34:12,840 forward. Like you say, you're in the 2253 01:34:12,840 --> 01:34:14,040 fight. You might as well be loud. 2254 01:34:15,040 --> 01:34:16,720 Here's the other problem. They didn't work with me that 2255 01:34:16,720 --> 01:34:18,680 hard when I was at the FBI. So I spent a lot of time looking 2256 01:34:18,680 --> 01:34:22,720 around and figuring out where the bodies are buried and wrong 2257 01:34:22,720 --> 01:34:25,000 guy to mess with. It turns out, because like 1. 2258 01:34:25,000 --> 01:34:26,200 I actually do have some principles. 2259 01:34:26,200 --> 01:34:28,400 My principles are just my own. It's like, I don't want to get a 2260 01:34:28,400 --> 01:34:29,960 COVID shot. I don't think anybody should be 2261 01:34:29,960 --> 01:34:31,080 mad at that. If you don't want to hang out 2262 01:34:31,080 --> 01:34:32,600 with me, I'll tell you up front, you don't have to. 2263 01:34:32,600 --> 01:34:33,840 You don't have to hang out with me. 2264 01:34:33,840 --> 01:34:37,240 But I already had COVID and I have some, you know, religious 2265 01:34:37,240 --> 01:34:38,880 problems with it. I have some medical issues up. 2266 01:34:39,160 --> 01:34:41,240 We'll see where they all go. And I, I don't wish I'll on 2267 01:34:41,240 --> 01:34:43,080 anybody. When they, when they came to 2268 01:34:43,080 --> 01:34:44,600 shove that thing down, I was like, no, I'm not doing that. 2269 01:34:44,600 --> 01:34:47,600 Like you can fire me, it's fine. But they can't fire you because 2270 01:34:47,600 --> 01:34:49,520 I, they had to go through due process because I was a federal 2271 01:34:49,520 --> 01:34:51,680 employee. So they removed due process, 2272 01:34:51,680 --> 01:34:53,160 same as you. They went and around, they 2273 01:34:53,160 --> 01:34:54,920 pulled my security clearance, which I have no right to. 2274 01:34:55,480 --> 01:34:57,360 So there's no due process about a security clearance. 2275 01:34:58,760 --> 01:35:00,600 That's it. There's a there's a court case. 2276 01:35:00,880 --> 01:35:03,840 Like, well, they have these methods always of like trying to 2277 01:35:03,840 --> 01:35:06,880 like, fill you by slicing you and the ankles enough times that 2278 01:35:06,880 --> 01:35:08,080 you fall down and can't get back out. 2279 01:35:08,080 --> 01:35:09,360 Yeah. It's death by 1000 cuts. 2280 01:35:09,360 --> 01:35:11,920 It's pull your paycheck and let you start my my attorney called 2281 01:35:11,920 --> 01:35:15,880 the wither on the vine technique and and he's like, yeah, they'll 2282 01:35:15,880 --> 01:35:17,440 just, they'll just put you out to past year. 2283 01:35:17,440 --> 01:35:18,720 They'll suspend you indefinitely. 2284 01:35:18,720 --> 01:35:20,280 So like technically, you know, the FBI can. 2285 01:35:20,400 --> 01:35:23,920 I'm on the FBI's register. It's 277 days since I've been 2286 01:35:23,920 --> 01:35:26,360 back in an FBI office. My buddies are keeping count for 2287 01:35:26,360 --> 01:35:27,800 me. It shows it on the ticker. 2288 01:35:27,960 --> 01:35:30,920 There's a little like, you know, Skype link you'd have like your 2289 01:35:30,920 --> 01:35:32,880 buddy list and the buddy list will tell you how many days 2290 01:35:32,880 --> 01:35:35,360 you've been offline. And mine's 277 as of today. 2291 01:35:35,920 --> 01:35:37,280 I have to leave in like 8 minutes. 2292 01:35:37,280 --> 01:35:38,840 I'm so. Yes, I, I don't want, no, this 2293 01:35:38,840 --> 01:35:39,720 is perfect. I think we did. 2294 01:35:39,760 --> 01:35:41,560 I think we did good justice to your story. 2295 01:35:41,560 --> 01:35:43,120 I'm looking forward to a second wrap up. 2296 01:35:43,640 --> 01:35:45,960 Tell people where they can follow you and and where they 2297 01:35:45,960 --> 01:35:47,760 can see some more of your your stuff and what's going on. 2298 01:35:47,840 --> 01:35:50,760 Yeah, you can follow me on all channels, Instagram, Instagram, 2299 01:35:50,760 --> 01:35:54,920 Twitter and TikTok at Amy under Score K under Score Nelson and 2300 01:35:54,920 --> 01:35:59,720 my company is theriveter.co and we are a membership network that 2301 01:35:59,720 --> 01:36:01,400 advances and amplifies working women. 2302 01:36:02,040 --> 01:36:04,160 And so if women are starting a company, they can come and they 2303 01:36:04,160 --> 01:36:06,400 can click on your website and and connect with you guys. 2304 01:36:06,840 --> 01:36:10,040 Yeah, we have courses. Courses, connections, all sorts 2305 01:36:10,040 --> 01:36:11,600 of tools. It's a super welcoming 2306 01:36:11,600 --> 01:36:13,120 community. Everybody belongs there. 2307 01:36:13,360 --> 01:36:14,760 We just want to help women make money. 2308 01:36:15,600 --> 01:36:17,480 I want to help make women make money too. 2309 01:36:17,480 --> 01:36:19,400 That sounds great. Women who want to make money 2310 01:36:19,400 --> 01:36:20,800 should be able to make money if they want to do it. 2311 01:36:21,400 --> 01:36:22,920 That's all wonderful. We're going to put those links 2312 01:36:22,920 --> 01:36:24,720 down in the description. So folks, if you will look in 2313 01:36:24,720 --> 01:36:27,000 the description on our Rumble channel, you'll see them there. 2314 01:36:27,800 --> 01:36:29,800 Amy, thank you so much for spending time with us. 2315 01:36:29,800 --> 01:36:31,080 I'm sure it's also pee break time. 2316 01:36:31,080 --> 01:36:32,320 That's just the nature of these things. 2317 01:36:32,920 --> 01:36:36,000 So once you sit long enough and the coffee kicks in or gets 2318 01:36:36,040 --> 01:36:38,200 through the middle of the day. Thanks so much for sharing your 2319 01:36:38,200 --> 01:36:39,440 story. And I appreciate you being so 2320 01:36:39,440 --> 01:36:41,400 open and honest and and transparent about it all. 2321 01:36:41,680 --> 01:36:43,840 And I'm really sorry what your family has gone through. 2322 01:36:43,840 --> 01:36:46,120 But like I said, the Seraphim family loves you now. 2323 01:36:47,240 --> 01:36:48,840 We're all in this together. We really are. 2324 01:36:48,920 --> 01:36:51,640 It's such a strange time. We got to hit him from every 2325 01:36:51,640 --> 01:36:52,840 angle. So God bless you. 2326 01:36:53,240 --> 01:36:55,440 And you know, God bless your little girls and your husband 2327 01:36:55,440 --> 01:36:58,840 and thank God for fighting. And we will talk to you when 2328 01:36:58,840 --> 01:37:01,080 this court case comes through. Thank you so much, Kyle. 2329 01:37:02,480 --> 01:37:05,720 And that was part one of our best of show, the first one 2330 01:37:05,720 --> 01:37:06,840 ever. Thanks for joining us. 2331 01:37:06,840 --> 01:37:08,720 Really appreciate all of you that have been watching. 2332 01:37:08,720 --> 01:37:11,440 And it is really a big deal to us, whether you know it or not, 2333 01:37:11,440 --> 01:37:14,360 to be able to walk back to these archives and see how it's gone, 2334 01:37:14,360 --> 01:37:18,040 how it's gotten there. It's it's both humbling it it's 2335 01:37:18,040 --> 01:37:20,960 also kind of embarrassing to see how much I needed to grow. 2336 01:37:21,680 --> 01:37:25,040 But we all come from somewhere and we're not going to hide from 2337 01:37:25,040 --> 01:37:26,120 it. If you guys want to make sure 2338 01:37:26,120 --> 01:37:29,200 you're supporting the program, Kyle serafinshow.com, you can 2339 01:37:29,200 --> 01:37:31,600 follow us on Spotify. If you use Spotify, make sure 2340 01:37:31,600 --> 01:37:33,320 you're following the channel. I'd really appreciate that. 2341 01:37:33,480 --> 01:37:35,640 We'll boost those numbers there. How about on locals? 2342 01:37:35,640 --> 01:37:38,000 You want to support us, you want to keep this kind of work 2343 01:37:38,000 --> 01:37:40,040 growing. I'm never done or satisfied. 2344 01:37:40,040 --> 01:37:43,520 Kyle seraphin.com. So Kyle Seraphin Show and Kyle 2345 01:37:43,520 --> 01:37:45,280 seraphin.com. And if you're watching on 2346 01:37:45,280 --> 01:37:47,080 YouTube or on Rumble, make sure you like it. 2347 01:37:47,280 --> 01:37:49,920 Make sure you're sharing with a friend and always subscribe to 2348 01:37:49,920 --> 01:37:52,280 those channels over there if you haven't done so already. 2349 01:37:52,520 --> 01:37:54,040 We'll keep boosting those numbers as well. 2350 01:37:54,440 --> 01:37:56,360 Thanks so much for being a part of the Sunday Sit down. 2351 01:37:56,560 --> 01:38:01,000 Thank you for hearing the story of my friend Amy Nelson, and I 2352 01:38:01,000 --> 01:38:03,840 look forward to sharing many more with you guys. 2353 01:38:03,880 --> 01:38:07,400 Again, we'll see you on Monday at 0930 for the Kyle Seraphin 2354 01:38:07,400 --> 01:38:09,600 Show. Thank you for listening to the 2355 01:38:09,600 --> 01:38:14,160 Kyle Seraphin Show, streamed live weekdays on rumble.com/kyle 2356 01:38:14,160 --> 01:38:16,440 Seraphin. Follow Kyle on Twitter, True 2357 01:38:16,440 --> 01:38:19,440 Social and Instagram at Kyle Seraphin.