So for you that don't know what a rescue task force is, it's
usually a group of firefighters or paramedics teamed up with one
to two law enforcement. That team then can go into warm
zone type scenes where there's been a shooter, there's no
active threat, where there's no shots being fired currently,
maybe the shooter's been already, he's deceased, been
under arrest, has fled. We can insert these, what they
call RTF teams into those areas to go take care of the wounded.
The reason we have law enforcement with them is because
most first responders are not armed.
They have no way to defend themselves, so it's it'd be
unsafe to send parametric firefighters just into a scene
with no type of protection because if the actor was to come
back they could be attacked themselves and having a way to
defend themselves. So the RTF is a group of
firefighters and paramedics or EMTs, any type of medical
personnel being LED into a scene by some type of security force.
All interviewers have their own style and my style is to try to
get to the point and to be intensely curious.
And the key to. Is listening.
Take a look behind the curtain with a real whistle blower, an
American patriot. Prepare to embrace the
uncomfortable truth because this program has no time for
comforting lies. Here is civil liberties
enthusiast, Second Amendment defender, and recovering FBI
agent Kyle Seraph. Well, my friends, welcome to the
Sunday. Sit down.
I appreciate you joining me. Today's going to be a little bit
different. We're going to be doing a panel
discussion. It's not something I've done
before, so I hope you'll bear with me on the editing on it.
I got together a group of people, CIA targeting officer,
former security officer, veteran of Benghazi, my buddy Peter
Johnson, who does tactical training around the country,
military veteran, law enforcement veteran, and a SWAT
medic from the local area. What we wanted to do is talk
about an emerging terrorist threat that's not being
discussed. We talked about a little bit
during the week and the question is, is what do you do if
something like that happens? So we have a discussion about
readiness, nature of threat, proper responses, what you might
be able to do as an individual citizen, what you might do if
you happen to be a law enforcement officer and you need
to motivate your chain of command to go do something about
it. If you work in the fire
department or if you're a medic, if you work in the emergency
room, if you're a hospital person, just as a person in the
community, we should be aware that we got to take care of
ourselves. At the end of the day, our
government's not going to do it. So that's what we're going to be
talking about today. And I think you guys will find
some value, if not a significant amount of value right up front.
Let me just tell you, you can cut any piece of this.
Take it if you can, if it value, if there's any value that is
added for your department or for your your area, I'm going to
tell you right up front, you can take any piece of this, clip it,
cut it, do anything you like. I do not have any issues with
people sharing this around and I hope you do.
If there's something in here that is a value for you, whether
it be at a roll call, whether it be at A at a shift change
meeting or something to that effect, by all means take it,
use it, brief your folks. Let's get things.
Let's get things moving so that we are not left flat footed in
this country. There's something that's
happening with food supplies here in the United States.
It's not getting a lot of attention.
The Chinese have been buying up farmland by the hundreds of
thousands of acres. They've taken control of
critical supply chains, things like fertilizer, animal feed,
farming equipment. Why?
It's pretty clear they're tightening up their grip on
global food production. So if things go South, you need
to be ready. I need to be ready.
And that's why I trust my Patriot Supply.
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Again, it's prepare like kyle.com.
Prepare like kyle.com. We're talking about terrorism
today. These are things that can
interrupt things as you know it. They can disrupt your status
quo. If you want to be prepared, make
sure you check it out. The link is in the show
description. Prepare like kyle.com.
Let's get right into this interview today with my guest
panel. All.
Right, ladies and gentlemen, So this is going to be kind of an
interesting experiment for the Kyle Serafin show.
We are doing a live and remote panel at the same time.
Got a handful of really competent commentators.
I hate the word experts, but people who know what they're
talking about when it comes to medical, when it comes to
tactical, when it comes to the threat that faces this country.
We're going to get into kind of a freewheeling discussion
starting with Sarah Adams, who you guys have seen on the Sean
Ryan show and other places as well, former CIA targeter.
We're going to be talking with Boone, who is formerly with the
with the CIA and the Global Response Service.
We're talking to Peter Johnson, who's the previous guest here.
And Kevin, no further information currently on the job
in the tactical and medical world, an EMS professional and a
paramedic. So we can talk about the nature
of what the threat looks like in this country and why we are not
seeing local law enforcement even close to prepared for it.
Maybe we can get a couple of you guys moving the needle in your
own departments, within your own agencies to do that.
So I want to start with Sarah, if you want to do a just a quick
background on, you know, maybe a 2 minute intro for people who
are not familiar with your background.
Yeah, I mean, just really quick, you know, I spent about a decade
at the CIA. I was an analyst and then a
targeter. Really just simply what that job
was. I would locate threats, right?
And we would usually capture them, or I would help find
people to focus on, to recruit, right, to fill intelligence
gaps. I got recruited out to go to the
Select Committee on Benghazi. So up on the Hill, when I was
there, I realized that the CIA and FBI weren't actually hunting
down the terrorists who actually attacked us, you know, in 2012
in Benghazi. And so that time me and Boone
got together and we did our own investigation into the
terrorists. So for the last 10 years, we've
actually been running an investigation starting in Libya.
As you can imagine, it moved to places like Turkey.
And now since the fall of Afghanistan, it's moved to
Afghanistan. And so we have a lot of inside
information on Afghanistan because a lot of Libyans have
moved there in the last few years, among with thousands of
other terrorists from different groups.
So that's kind of a quick down and dirty in my background.
Love it. Let's let's move on to boones
that you're sitting right there as well.
Yeah, spent some time in the military, spent time in law
enforcement on the SWAT team, spent some time with the
Diplomatic Security Service, spent 12 years with the CIS
Global Response staff, currently teach farmers and tactics full
time. And obviously, I support Sarah
in our investigation and then I wipe her eyebrow carrier water,
things like that. He's my sidekick.
Outstanding what? What?
What is the clientele of the people that you're currently
training? So we have open enrollment where
we teach law abiding citizens, but then we also teach law
enforcement, SWAT teams, regular patrol guys and other government
agencies as well. Excellent.
All right. And Mr. Johnson?
Peter Johnson with Archway Defense before got into this six
years with military, two years part time in a municipal PD
Wallace finished on my undergrad in criminal justice, law
enforcement, then got into the Air Marshall program.
So as an Air Marshall team leader of the New York field
office for five years, woke up one day, didn't want to be part
of the Fed anymore, so got into the private sector.
Similar to Boone. We've actually met a couple
times on the road training cops. I'm actually at a SWAT
conference again right now. I just broke away for this
filming. Appreciate it, buddy.
And Kevin, you want to give people just a broad overstroke
of your background? So Kevin, I started out, dabbled
in the fire department for a few years, and the last 28 years
I've been a paramedic and about 20 of those years I've been on
the SWAT team as their tech medic for numerous local, state
and federal SWAT teams. Outstanding.
All right, So that's, that's who the panelists folks, it's just
general bona fides. Like I said, nobody here is
going to be claiming that they know everything, but I think
everyone here knows something and we can have a good
discussion about it. So Sarah, let's talk about the
threat most broadly, if you would and what we see facing
maybe the the evolution of it, how far back it goes and maybe
proximity and timeline if you could about what we're getting
we got coming our way. Yeah, I mean, to keep it really
simple, obviously after the fall of Afghanistan, Al Qaeda was
able to reclaim its base in Afghanistan.
It started planning a series of events, right?
Some we've seen already. They're involved in the attacks
in Israel, You know, on October 7th, they supported training to
prepare for the Syrian blitzkrieg that happened last
November. And this homeland attack is just
a piece of the plotting. They also have similar attacks
plan in Europe. We'll just focus on the homeland
for today when it comes. The homeland is really
interesting. There's multiple phases of the
attacks. The two phases that matter the
most is 1. They've actually joined forces
with the Islamic State and that's going to be kind of like
community level attacks, very similar to what we saw in New
Orleans on New Year's. The interesting part, the people
forget in that attack, the bombs didn't go off right.
So it was a multi modal attack, just the bombs failed.
Thankfully for the citizens there.
Now these attacks will be basically in communities like we
saw in New Orleans. We do think they'll be multiple
phases, right? There could be vehicle rammings,
bombings using weapons, for example, that their worst
training in certain groupings, 5 to 7 and 8 to 10 man teams,
right? That'll be a little different
than the single active shooters we usually see.
I mean, like even though one in Vegas obviously had devastating
impacts and then there is a large scale for the second
phase. What would be the 9/11 attack?
We've been calling it the 9/11, 2 point O, and then that goes
back to another airline plot. It's very similar, we think to
Bojinka. That was 30 years ago.
It was a thwarted plot. And then there's going to be
basically an attack on government institutions.
When we say that, we're talking like the Department of Defense,
the Intel community, those type of government facilities.
Would it be fair to say that a lot of the things you're seeing
are kinetic? These are not cyber.
These are not people who are trying to do information or, or
psyop type attacks. These are directly, you know,
explosives, firearms, vehicle rammings.
Is that kind of the nature of the threat you're talking about?
That's the nature of the threat you'll experience.
There are some what you might call psyops involved a little
bit of there is some influence campaigns out there.
We've seen them around a couple different topics, ones of FIA
Siddiqui, obviously some is around the Hamas protesters and
we even saw Al Qaeda get involved a little bit in some
messaging around the gentleman who is executed in in Saint
Louis, for example, trying to bring in the communities around
him. So that's really interesting.
Another thing, it's not exactly psyops, but it's the fact that
the terrorists are considering going at first responders the
way they want to sideline them is to maybe also look like them.
So that is something obviously a little different than a
terrorists coming straight out with you a gun.
And you know that's a terrorist, right?
If he's a police officer, I might not assume that right
away. So you you laid out kind of a
strategy there that I just heard.
And it sounds like that it's coordinated by some overarching
group, but then has like a bunch of sort of semi autonomous or,
or cell based kind of actors. Is that kind of the way you
think it's taking central direction?
But then once people are kind of set in motion that they're,
they're, they're set off on their own path of, you know,
probably not making it, but doing as much damage as
possible. Exactly.
So this is a plot directed by Al Qaeda.
It has Bayern from ISIS, senior Shura.
And when we talk about those localized community attacks,
yes, those attackers know the city they're supposed to attack,
but they have freedom to choose the targets.
The aviation plot is a lot more detailed.
They have to work go on certain airlines at certain times.
As you could imagine, that's a lot more coordinated planning.
So, so it is different things. They're basically taking the
thought process from the Mumbai attacks.
The Mumbai attackers, you know what, 15 years ago now have
freedom of choice. You know when they went, you
know, into the city and you know, went to the, the train
station in the hotel and they could choose how they did their
tactics and, and even what type of tactics they used.
So. We're talking like a choose your
own adventure once you start of launch onto the path kind of
deal. Yeah, just so you can have.
There are other attacks. You know, so if your target, if
they told you your target let's say was this hotel and you go to
the hotel and there's not much going on there, you're not going
to have much impact. Will the attacker gets a choice,
Let me choose another target where I could have more impact
or cause more fatality. So it's a very interesting
concept. And, and that's the the entire
goal. This is not like a tactical
mission. There's not, I guess that's the
question I have too. Is it in fact something that
we're trying to see a movement of just terror just keep people
and Americans like sort of on their back foot?
Or is there some sort of political goal 'cause I grew up
in an era when when terrorism was supposed to actually inspire
some sort of action Like, you know, get the United States out
of fill in the blank country or leave us alone or, you know,
reduce sanctions or some garbage there.
Is this just 100% just, you know, sort of like violence and
mayhem? No, those localized ISIS style
attacks are actually to divert law enforcement's attention to
look focus on ISIS, focus on smaller attacks.
So they missed the large 9/11 2.09 eleven. 2.0 has multiple
aims. 1 is obviously in honor of the death of Osama bin Laden. 1
is basically to honor all the terrorists that they felt were
impacted by the US intelligence or law enforcement.
So like the people detained like a Gitmo or across prisons in the
United States. And then the last piece is
basically to bring failed plots and to honor failed plots and
bring them to fruition. So those are their goals now,
their goals on the community levels.
They want to bring in an audience like which what
happened in the Hamas attacks where people said, yeah, let's
take it to the America, yeah, this is a resistance, yeah,
bring down this government that's causing all these
problems overseas, impacted all these people, detained them for
these 20 years, didn't give them from justice.
So it does have that political piece that we usually look for.
And I imagine it's probably a recruiting tactic too.
If you have success, then you can get more people to sign up
for your terrible ideas. Yes, they they luckily have.
They're the largest they've ever been.
They have no recruitment problems right now, as you can
imagine, because of the success of taking Afghanistan and now
taking Syria. Fair enough.
Mumbai was mentioned. Can we do a refresher for those
people that do not follow international events, The
classic American problem that we think everything ends when you
get to the tip of Florida or you know, ends at Seattle.
Let's talk about what Mumbai was and what lessons were learned
and the response from it and what was successful and what
wasn't maybe and we can maybe open this thing up a little bit.
Yeah, I mean, Mumbai was basically like 10 terrorists.
There was a high level selection process.
You know, they were all chosen for a reason and basically nine
of them fought to the death, right?
They held down a very large city.
I'm not sure, Mumbai is 2030 million maybe for days.
It was basically they held ground.
So they held ground in like a, in a famous hotel called the Taj
Mahal. And the really interesting thing
is they had communications among the attackers and they were
watching how the police were responding on the ground,
sharing the information and making different movements in
the hotel, which made it last longer.
Another thing that was really interesting in that attack is
like when they went to the train station, they were supposed to
plant bombs. They said this is going to take
too long, There's so many people here, let's just shoot them,
we'll kill more people, right? They have that freedom of
choice. Another thing that was really
interesting is how they infiltrated the city.
They actually came via boat. So there's just a lot of
creative things used in that tack.
We did see some of it go roll over into October 7th.
A lot of people don't know the terrorist group that plan
Mumbai, Lashbay Taiba. They actually are the ones who
designed the paraglider cross-border plan.
They did it years ago. They never got to put their
attack into motion, but then obviously was taken on and used
very successfully in Israel. So there's a lot of these things
from over time among these groups they decided to share now
that they're working together, especially they're Co located in
Afghanistan. So we're seeing a lot of
interesting tactics among the groups start to crossover and
it's making them more successful in these attacks.
Is that a product of social media, Internet
interconnectivity? Because I don't remember people
sharing, you know, this didn't work for us, but maybe we can
shelve this plan and reuse it later on.
That didn't seem like something I grew up hearing about people
doing. Yeah, it actually is basically
because they're Co located in Afghanistan and now even Al
Qaeda has put some of these terrorists in the military
Commission and in the Shura. So like Lashkar E Taiba's
leader, Hafiz Mohammed Saeed, he's a senior advisor in the
homeland plot. So they're Co located together
now in Afghanistan. So they weren't Co located
previously there in different locations.
So a lot of that's changed as this new terrorist camp
infrastructure has been rebuilt in Afghanistan.
It's become the base of multiple groups and al Qaeda has invited
multiple groups. Come here Headquarter will build
new camps for you. You'll be safe here.
OK, I want to break it real simple.
And then I'm going to go to the the the gens sitting here to try
to talk about maybe what the tactic looks like to address
this thing. So very simply a phase one.
What kind of targets are we looking at and sort of numbers
of, of teams. You have a a sense of that.
We know they trained in five to seven man teams and eight to 10
man teams and we know at least four of the items they trained
on. They trained on basically like
supermarkets or shopping complexes, nightclubs, churches,
and then kind of like public transportation, that type of
infrastructure. Have you heard anything about
hospitals, which I'm hearing people telling me about
hospitals as potential targets? Yeah, they actually also trained
on hospitals. The interesting part is there is
some threat reporting coming out of a couple of the ISIS camps.
Obviously it came out via via human intelligence.
But yeah, there is some targeting against hospitals and
we look at it a little bigger than hospitals is actually
sidelining first responders as the goal.
Now will the attacker decide the hospital is the first responder?
Will they attack a police station like they did in Israel?
And also in Israel they basically set up on the roads
and waited for first responders to come and attack them while
responding, right? So it's basically an attack on
1st responder. So it's kind of a lot broader
than just the hospitals. OK.
So phase one, small units, we'll call it small unit tactics,
whether it's 4 or 10, I don't think the response is
significantly different other than you need people who know to
handle multiple, you know, attacking targets coordinated
against those types of targets. And then how many would we
imagine that those would happen. And then also, if you don't mind
the, the degree of confidence that you have that this is, you
know that your Intel is solid on it.
Yeah. So we're pretty confident that
al Qaeda made this deal with ISIS, right?
We're pretty confident these attackers will know their cities
and have choice. We feel that it's about a
handful of them. That's kind of the level of what
we feel to know the exact targeting of those mid tier city
localized attacks. We are have a lot more
confidence on the 9/11 2.0 attack because that is the big
attack. All these other ones are almost
like a tease or a diversionary, or they're waste law enforcement
resources but still cause harm. Got it.
I, I had a Green Beret I was talking to who referred to it as
a tactically achievable goal, but wasn't necessary for the
final mission. To be able to achieve is like
some of the things you might do. It's a distractionary kind of
thing where yes, they can go out there and have great effect and
at the same time, whether they're successful or not, they
actually are still fulfilling the goal for what needs to be
done. In other words, drawing people
away. Yeah, if they all those attacks,
they could still do the big 9/11 1, right?
It's they're not. They don't rely on each other.
If that makes sense. And then OK, so we'll get to the
the bigger one first. Let's talk about, let's talk
about the issues that exist. Boone, you're doing training
right now, Peter, you're both doing training.
You guys are dealing with law enforcement and and folks all
around the country. What is the level of readiness
for something like this at the moment?
And I'll let either one of you take it over.
Boone go first. So from what I'm seeing, the
level of readiness is extremely low, not that they're not
capable. One thing you run into is budget
and time. And then 2A, lack of
imagination. Law enforcement historically is
reactionary and they don't change until something happens.
Policies usually written in blood.
So right now everyone's focusing on traditional law enforcement
problem sets. But then when it comes to like
active shooters, they're dealing with that one shooter, it's
usually someone unstable, some whack a doodle.
They kill as many people as they can, law enforcement shows up,
they either kill themselves, law enforcement kills them or they
give up. And that's the extent.
But there's no real training. And I and I can't say everybody
because there have been some very squared away teams, but for
the, for the majority of law enforcement, they're not
training with imagination and preparing for multiple attackers
in multiple locations all at the same time.
Yeah, and to echo that Boone, I'm literally I've been to three
SWAT conferences in the past month and I'm asking people I'm
like, hey, talk to me about mission planning.
Are you guys even table topping Mumbai style attacks, multiple
attackers ambushes on cops, like the cop counter ambush thing.
That's generally one person, an anti police person shooting at a
cop. That's quite a bit different
than a small team tactic lane waste to a police station.
So in all the travel, I mean past couple 100 cops I've
trained and the couple thousand I've come in contact with the
trade shows. To your point, there's a couple
teams that are locked on, but they're such a rarity.
It's they're not ready for this scale if this happens that most
PDS, most teams are not ready for this scale by any.
Would it be fair on both your ends to say that the readiness
level for local law enforcement is low?
Nationally, we're pretty comfortable with that
assessment. I, I would say not only on the
local level, but to include the federal level as well, correct.
And I know the federal guys have a way more resources and they're
generally head and shoulders above some of the local
agencies. But even on a local level,
they're not taking this type of threat, or even on the federal
level, they're not taking this type of threat serious.
Sure. And and and even best case
scenario, you're still limited on the federal resources.
I mean, you look at my old agency FBI, you got 14,000
agents, you got 100 that are in the tactical, you know, full
time tactical, only one team is up at any given time, another
one in a training scenario. So you got 30 plus guys and
maybe they can deploy, but that's probably one to two sites
tops in a in a small geographic area.
And even. The ability to do that, you're
always resource landed. Right.
And even best case scenario, how long is it going to take them to
respond? Well, this was, yeah, this was
one of the the situations I brought up with the, with the
current director right now. It's like, why are we not doing
the same mission idea where we set people up in, in time zones?
Why would you not try to move your mission and, and say in the
same way that you have, you know, teams that are in the, the
SF model where you look at some people are focused on certain
types of threats. So you've got an airborne team,
you've got your dive team, your amphibious type stuff, you've
got your cold focused, you've got your, you know, different
terrain functions, whether it be a high altitude or, you know,
different types of approach in law enforcement, you're not
going to have quite the same thing, but you might have a land
mission, you might have a water based amphibious mission for the
for the coastal cities. And wouldn't you want to locate
them geographically? So they actually have access
like a nullus Air Force Base, you know, a Kansas City or
something to that effect or a tinker Air Force Base.
And then you could obviously still have something close to
the national Capital Region. But the fact that we basically
throw all of our resources where the big federal government
dollars are, it turns out to make it ultimately ineffective
to to respond to anything in real life, it seems like.
So we've got a solution and you've checked the box at the
management level, but is it a functional solution?
And then more importantly, has it ever been tested to your to
your awareness, gentlemen, either one of you, do you know
of a single like I know they created the hostage rescue team
for the FBI and a lot of the tactical models come out of the
idea that they were going to try to stop something like they saw
now why is it why can I remember the German?
The Olympics. The Olympics, Yeah.
Munich, Munich, Munich. Thank you.
Yeah. It's like sitting right there.
I'm like, it's not Berlin. You know, we, they they
basically were doing a response to Munich and they, and with the
the Los Angeles games approaching, and I want to say
it was in 1982 and they thought, OK, we're going to be ready for
that. But that never materialized.
And there's never been a real stress test of that particular
animal to deploy nationally, as far as I know, like, not for a
big counterterrorism threat. And you would know better than I
would, but not for a counterterrorism threat.
But that unit is very proven, you know, in other hostage
rescues and in no doubt. That you note about, about what
I'm getting at is more like if as the mission evolves, and I
think we've kind of gone to an evolved mission, we're not going
to see a bunch of American hostages on US soil at a big
Olympic Games or at a sporting event or something.
That's just, that's just the not the nature of the threat.
Tell me if I'm wrong there, Sarah.
But that's just not what people are looking to to do.
That's a 1970s Nineteen 80s model.
Right. Yeah.
And we haven't even seen a focus on the stadiums.
Like they sell it like ISIS did a lot of it during the Olympics.
But there wasn't really good planning to actually do
something. You know, in this last Olympics
in Paris, it was more trying to inspire people to do something.
It would be a much faster mobile animal.
OK. I want to also address the
capabilities of EMS, which is why we have Kevin sitting on
here. So I'm going to ask him real
quickly if he can kind of address what he's seen in let's
say Texas, which I think is a pretty forward thinking area
when it comes to EMS. You want to talk about maybe
readiness if you guys have table topped anything like this before
Kevin? Sure.
I mean there are some local agencies that train for active
shooter, but like Boone and Peter said, we're usually
training for one to three patients, pretty small groups
because that's what we've seen in most active shooters we've
seen there's very small groups of people that are injured,
normally less than 5 patients. So we don't train for the big
events when it comes to explosives.
We don't train around explosives hardly at all.
So you add that into the picture and it, it really hamstrings
almost all EMS because we don't go around those type of places.
So we'd be left, you know, mile, 2 miles away waiting to be
cleared by a bomb squad or something like that.
The other problem with a lot of the local EMS is, is I think
about 30% of all EMS is run by private ambulances.
Private ambulances are there, they're there to make a profit.
And when it's you're there to make a profit, you're not going
to spend extra money for vests and training and stuff like that
for attacks like this, it may or may not happen.
So they look at it as they're not going to train for it until
these events happen. And like I think Boone said,
it's always we're reactionary. It happens.
So now let's plan for it if it ever happens again instead of
pre planning for it the first time.
So with EMS, as I'd say, you know, the ones that are
government agencies that have the funding, they do do some
training, but not extensive. And it's usually a small group
of patients and not a big vast, you know, attack with multiple
attackers. When we talk about like mass
casualty events, I don't think I've ever seen a mass cache
simulation with multiple sites. You'll see multiple patients,
like you said, the five or more whatever where it's going to
exhaust all your resources. But have you ever seen a multi
site, you know, progressive sort of event training that went like
that? We have done a few that are
multi site but within a like A1 block area.
So like two or three houses in the general area, but not like
two or three different sites across the city where you're
you're draining the entire city of resources at once.
Usually it's a localized in just a couple different buildings.
That checks out. OK.
So that's the scope of the problem for people to understand
what it is, which is tremendous. It's essentially a complete, a
complete dart board of random locations.
What you said, small to mid sized cities.
Is that what I heard Sarah? Is that kind of the thought?
Yeah. For the for the first phase or
whatever you want to call it, those type of ones.
And that was actually chosen to be impactful because they want
you to feel it if you served in the US military.
And they think those are the type of cities U.S. military
people settled in and retired to vice, like New York City, which
is a very interesting concept. So they want the military who
served in Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan to feel in their
cities what they felt like they felt in there.
It was a very interesting concept.
OK, I can at least understand that motivation.
I guess that makes a lot of sense of why.
Give me some examples of what's what is a small to mid sized
city from the folks that you know what your Intel base would
call that because maybe we have different animals that we're
looking at. So it's like Albany, NY, Tulsa,
OK, Tempe, AZ and then we have seen some very strange things in
other places like in Arlington, VA.
We do think there is a Virginia targets in this.
We do think there's New Jersey targets in this.
We think there's New York, but it's not the city targets in
these. So, and then obviously it was a
little larger, but New Orleans was a little bit of the feel as
well. How about Montana?
Any Montana targets? Nothing that we heard.
Peters laughing, 'cause I just want to move to Montana.
I just, you know, the rest of the country, you're on your own.
We're going to get out. We're going to get out and be
safe. Nobody wants to.
What about Texas targets? I'll tell you is.
There likelihood of. So we have not heard Texas.
The interesting part though with Texas is they want the
terrorists to settle and have attacks near locations where
they blend. Obviously we have had large
immigrant populations from some of the nationalities we think
are in the homeland attacks settle, especially like Houston
example. So we aren't ruling it out
because it's going to probably be one of the bases where some
of the terrorists live prior to doing the attacks.
So blending becomes part of the the ability so that they can get
longer planning. So having a native community,
we're seeing a lot of movement and I think people in Texas have
been very, let's say, tuned into this.
There have been purchases of large tracts of property and
building of mosques and, and communities.
Somebody showed me recently a map of all the mosques that
exist in the Dallas area. I've seen the same thing in the
Houston area and so on. So there certainly are some
places where people might blend in more, but nothing like what
they would do on the on the East Coast, especially like, I can't
tell you. People would tell me stuff like,
oh, you know, I know this guy at this mosque and I'm like, yeah,
I know where to sit to watch that mosque because I've been
outside of all of them when it comes to anything that's in like
the what's called the Eastern seaboard where my team used to
operate. Peter, I want to open up and
kind of give you an opportunity to respond to what you think
this you, you've been fantasizing about a training
opportunity to try to, to push to local law enforcement and to
motivate their command structures with not just like
here's the problem, which I think we've addressed that there
is a problem and there's a, there's a gap there.
You want to talk about what that solution might look like and and
how you start going about even taking apart this this animal.
Yeah. And as anybody who's been in the
combat arms role, just to hear this possibility of an attack in
the States, you can imagine very quickly how resources to Kevin's
point would just be drained instantaneously.
So the my biggest concern is again, going around training law
enforcement on firearms and all the other stuff we do is having
these conversations, which kind of prompted this, this round
table was I'm not hearing anybody mean have any meaningful
discussions on what they can actually do.
I mean, even the concept of zone coverage where you have your
patrol cars and if there is a an event, having whoever the unseen
commander is. And that can be just whoever
takes charge. Making sure that you're not
overwhelming the scene with unnecessary resources.
Once you have a pulse on it and start pushing squads out into
the region so that you don't get sucked in and you have the
classic 500 patrol cars all from every mutual agency on scene,
which at certain point somebody has to be an adult and say, do
we need more people or do we? Is there a chance something
bigger is going on? And how do we deploy those
resources to a zone coverage, if you will?
So from a high level, just that conversation, I'll, Boone and
Kevin. Yeah, I was going to say, Kevin,
did we not create this with NIMS?
I imagine you're a NIMS like commander or you have a high
level NIM certification. Yeah, that's The thing is, is
I'll start with it. Fire department EMS usually do
good at command. But when you throw law
enforcement in there, when you start talking IC to commit in
command to law enforcement, it's a whole different conversation
because they do it a totally different way.
And a lot of their command is actually on scene in the event
and they're not a true IC in the outskirts where they can blend
with fire and EMS. So we've always had those
issues. And I mean, it's, it's just part
of it because a lot of these law enforcement agencies, they only
have 3 or 4 patrolmen on at an at night in the smaller cities.
Well, that means your, your senior officer that's going to
be in command has to be on scene.
So blending the, the command is very difficult and it overwhelms
these small departments. Then they need help.
So they call basically for anybody that can come.
Well, that point in time you're getting every law enforcement
agency, any guy that's ever had a gun in the last 10 years shows
up on scene, some in uniform, some not.
So then you start getting confused on is that law
enforcement? Is it not?
Is he undercover? And it it really does.
It overwhelms the scene and you end up with 5060 police cars
there when it really ends up being a non event.
Is there a practical way to practice this sort of thing to
to try to to try to knock the dust off this idea?
I know a lot of the local agencies we deal with have
really been harping on it that if you're not asked personally
to respond, to stay out of the call because they've noticed it.
Certain agencies, you'll just hear the call broadcast it did
not even be requested. And they'll start responding
because, I mean, it's the nature of the beast.
Everybody wants to help. I mean, they want to get in
there. And so they've been trying to
preach that, hey, if you're not needed, please do not come.
And they do their best to get people to leave the scene, but
we're all about the same. Once we're there, we're kind of
stuck and everybody wants to see and get all the details before
they they clear the scene. So it it's hard.
Sarah, does that not open up like a an opportunity for follow
on kind of attacks as as you were kind of saying that the law
enforcement attack piece? Yeah, it's very concerning,
right, because part of the plot is to sideline first responders.
We haven't exactly figured out what their intent is.
But as you know, if you've especially we're talking about
Afghanistan where they train, they will do this right.
They will set off a bomb, first responders come and then they do
a follow on attack. So, so it is very concerning and
we need it to be clear to law enforcement.
Like, you know, he was just saying people may show up and
you assume they're law enforcement and they're not the
attackers, right. And we've recently had cases of
this, of al Qaeda doing this in Somalia.
I don't know if you saw the video a couple weeks ago, but
the senior commander was giving the rally call to his troops,
right? They're going to go out and
fight al Shabaab. And one of his own soldiers
walked over and shot him in the head.
Well, it wasn't a soldier. It was just a man in one of his
soldiers uniforms. If they had looked closely, he
didn't have even the right weapon that they were issued.
But nobody really was paying attention.
And those little things matter, right in these situations.
One of the other problems we've been seeing locally is I mean
social media is sometimes our worst nightmare is some of the
school stuff is when it hits social media every parent shows
up. They gridlock on call the
streets. So not reality.
Even if we wanted to clear the scene we can't because of all
the follow on people that heard about the call.
They block all the streets. Not terrorism, but the West
fertilizer explosion in West TX when it blew up.
That's The thing is everybody came to help, but they
gridlocked every street in this small town where nobody could
get in or out. And most of the patients
actually had to be flown out because there's no way to get
them out by streets. Yeah, there's another concerning
issue too. If you're talking about cities,
it's this concept of walkaways, right?
Like an attack happens, people get paralyzed, they abandoned
their vehicles and it blocks the road even if they weren't
intending to get in the way. And so we have to keep that in
mind too and have a plan for that.
What do we think this plan looks like, gents?
I think it starts with table tops, mutual aid table tops
between EMS, fire and police with mutual aid.
And that just takes egos to be dropped at the table to say that
if this happens, no one of us, no one entity can handle if it
happens in our jurisdiction mutually because they all have
mutual aid agreements where city one and City 2, if something
happened, City 2 will come in and help city one.
So getting all of your mutual aid partners together and
literally just starting on a very high level and Kevin Boone
chime in. But I think getting that
tabletop because that's nothing happens until you get all the
egos to drop and say if this happens, what can we actually
manage with the resources and time we have?
Now you're absolutely true. I mean, we've worked really hard
on getting all the neighboring cities and departments around us
to work together. And it's, it's crazy how many
years that takes. But some of this I've been
working on for 1015 years. Just to get people to talk about
the time you get to where you think you haven't solved a chief
of retire City Council changes over its mayor's change.
Then you almost have to start some of the talks over and
convince them of what you're trying to achieve.
It's just it's kind of this constant rolling plan that you
never can quite get to succeed because of just turnover.
We, we've been, Sarah and I, along with Scott man, we've been
looking at it from a bottom up approach, starting with the
community and having the community support each other and
then going up to the local and the county guys supporting each
other. Then going up to the state
level. The state's being
self-sufficient until federal resources can get to them.
So we're looking at it more of a bottom up approach and starting
with that community and then going outwards.
But to your point, there is a lot of egos, if you will, within
the law enforcement first responder community.
And that's always going to be a big hurdle.
Like hey, who's in charge? Well, it's in my city, I'm in
charge. No, it's the county.
You know, it's our problem. We're not going to have time for
things like that. Even like Nims, it's awesome for
a long term huge incident. These are going to be
fast-paced, multiple incidents over long geographical
distances. So we're going to have to be
much leaner and have decentralized command where we
can just take small little groups, hey, you guys are going
to handle this. Hey, that group go over there.
So we really need a cultural shift when it comes to the law
enforcement first responder mentality, if you will, in my
opinion. So for folks that are not
familiar with it, NIMS is the National Incident Management
System. I think it's what it's called.
It's a, it's a incident command idea that was that was launched
after 9-11 to try to get people on the same frequencies, to get
people on the same sort of terminologies, to try to get 10
codes and some of these sort of obscure ways of communicating.
So it was more plain speak over the radio.
So if you had to have your newest dispatcher on, they
weren't trying to figure out what some guy from 25 years ago
used to call something else. And every single department
might have a slightly different code for what these for
incidents look like. So you just have to call them as
they are. If you got to go to attack
channel, so be it. You go to something that's
encrypted so the public can't hear.
But the idea was to try to to make something functional.
And the problem is, is that's a really great system and it's a
really great solution, like you just said, except nobody
practices it. The only time that you ever dust
out that dance is when everything just kind of goes to
shit. And then you realize like
exactly how little practice you have at it.
So it's like trying to go out there and run the most
complicated play that you have in the entire playbook with the
most the most number of players. And you're going to do it
without ever having even seen each other.
It sounds like, and you guys correct me if I'm wrong, Kevin,
you may be a good sort of piece on this one.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like what we need to see
is our the, the people in the communities going to community
meetings. They need to go to City Council
meetings. This is the, the community kind
of appeal and saying we see that there is this problem.
I heard it on a podcast, I read the newspaper, I'm following it
on fill in the blank news program, whatever it may be.
We would like to hear our city do it.
And by the way, this is what we're recommending.
Our Fire Chief, our EMS captains, our folks in the the
Police Department and the Sheriff's Office all get
together and talk about what those resources look like.
Kevin, does that sound like something that would ever
happen? Oh absolutely.
I mean, we all know that politics drives a lot of the
stuff we do. So when the politicians hear
about it, they pressure the local law enforcement, EMS and
fire to solve the problem. So until they think there's a
problem, they don't pressure us to do, you know, fill our plans.
But luckily we, we've been doing our best to train for, like I
said, the last 10-15 years for stuff like this.
But obviously we don't train for a huge events, which is what's
might be coming. We train for the smaller events.
But they said we've been lucky to have the support that we do
and where where I work. But there's a lot of departments
that don't have that support. And I think Boone, you said it
right with the NIM stuff, it is great for large events, long
events. But when you come to these short
events, if you try to fill all the roles and Nims, you run out
of people before you even have anybody to go and do any of the
actual patient care because everybody's filling a role in
command and you don't have anybody, you don't have any
soldiers to go do do what you need them to do.
So Nims is great for wildfires, huge events.
But for these smaller attacks, we would, we don't even really
get the Nims. It's all local IC.
And I said unless there's a long event, it just doesn't really
come into play. But like I said, until we get
pressure to train on Dems, we're not going to do it.
Peter, you're in the, the training space and one of the
ways that you, one of the things that you illuminated to me,
which made a lot of sense is that everybody's got money for
gear and gadgets and, and they have budgets for equipment, but
they have no money for training. You found an interesting end
around on that. Are there any other people that
are doing these kind of trainings that can, you know,
offer resources to law enforcement or even to fire and,
and EMS? I mean, Boone's doing training
also his guys. There are a lot of good training
companies out there. And I mean, part of getting this
group together is simply saying what can we put down and give
away is like a white paper on how to pull your head out of
your ass for a terrorist attack. Pardon me, but like here are
some easy steps that you can take charge of your to Boone's
point, it's a local, the local solution fast because the Fed's
not going to push this down. By the time the Fed figures it
out, we'll be on the next phase of Homeland 3 point O and it's
they're never going to move as fast as local.
So motivating your local Sheriff's Department, your local
fire department, your local city to take charge.
I think that's that's going to be the fastest way to make any
impact in this, especially to Sarah's point.
If the expectation is that this possible attack could be within
the next 12 months, Sarah, is that reasonable?
Yes. OK.
Which is Kevin, you know, right? Yeah, nothing.
Nothing moves fast in EMEA. Yeah, at all reality with it
when it comes to stuff like that, if I was going to need
something for next year, I should have put it in budget
last year. So you're looking at two to
three years to get training budget if you and even
equipment, so like 12 months, we're already behind the curve.
If we don't have the equipment now and the training in budget
now, then we're behind the curve because like I said, we can say
today, I need this training, I need this equipment, it'll go
into budget next year. So it would get approved in
2027. So we're we're behind the curve
if you haven't already started the process.
But like I said, never too late to start because you never know.
But you got to start as soon as possible.
Yeah, you. Have concrete steps.
You have concrete steps, though. Let's start with like the law
enforcement end of it. What does that look like from
let's, let's talk about a basic like somebody who's working as a
patrol officer or they're working as, you know, a
frontline. If they're a detective or
something in that, then we'll do management and then we can step
into like what we can see pressure for police chiefs and,
and leadership and, and management at that level.
Yeah. And Boone, jump in, But I would
say if we're going to do concrete patrol officer, if they
listen to this, first step is bring more awareness.
Literally start opening your mouth and your PD and talk about
like have we looked into this? Is this something that we're
even ready for? Starting with that, Boone, if
you want to jump in? Yeah, I think if you don't have
the resources, like like you already mentioned, just starting
the conversation and playing the what if game, like, hey, I don't
have the resources, but what if this did happen?
What type of solutions can we come up with that's better than
nothing and, and starting there? But I, I, I don't want to sound
too bad because I've been a law enforcement officer myself, but
there's a lack of personal responsibility when it comes to
law enforcement. If I'm not on duty, if the
agency is not paying for it, I'm not going to training.
And you can't do that. You have an obligation to the
public to make sure that you yourself personally are prepared
to serve the public and yourself, you know, and your
partners. So some of this responsibility
goes back to the individual officers as well.
They might have to take some vacation time to get the proper
training. They might have to take some of
that hard earned money which they don't make enough of in the
1st place to pay for their own training.
But a lot of this training honestly doesn't cost money
there. There's guys who might be in
that agency who have the training and they can share it
for free. Just a couple guys getting
together and I hate to say looking on YouTube, but there is
a lot of good information, good how to videos on the Internet.
It's hard to sift through what's good and what's not, but there's
some good stuff out there to where you can just watch a video
and then give it your squad and say, hey, let's think about
this, let's try some of these things and and just start doing
things on your own, even though you don't have that budget.
So I think a lot of personal responsibility has to be put on
the individuals as well, not only the agency.
So one of the ways that somebody can go just individually take
ownership of the problem. And I think that's exactly
right. I, I saw it in local and state
and federal, you know, federals, feds are probably the worst at
it. You know, if nobody pays for it,
I'm not going to do it. I'll wait three months or three
years to get a belt because I don't want to, you know, spend
$80.00 out of my own pocket kind of thing, which is a terrible
mentality. But you can go out there for
free while you're sitting on a surveillance shift, while you're
on a patrol and you're riding around.
You can listen to a podcast on how to deal with explosives.
Specifically, how do you deal with explosive wounds and
injuries, which is not something that you're going to necessarily
know if you're a, if you're a street cop somewhere, it's not
something you're going to experience.
If you don't have like a major chemical plant nearby, you may
not know what to do about explosive injuries and how to
deal with those things. So you can listen to things
credible. I know off the top of my head
the PJ Med cast is very good and it's educated by a lot of
wartime experience of guys going in, grabbing people in the worst
case scenario and, and doing some really, really ugly
medevac, you know, sometimes even, you know, under fire and
so on. So you can go out there and get
some real world experience from guys who are high level medics
and trauma physicians from the Air Force and so on.
That was out transporting some of our our worst wounded in the
G Watt and get that for free. It's free, it's dry, you can
listen to it in 2X. You got to listen to it about 10
times before you grab it all because you know, Kevin knows if
you just listen to something without actually putting hands
on, it's not quite the same thing.
But you can take ownership of that at the individual level.
And while you're doing it, you're doing the second thing,
which I think you guys both just mentioned.
You're thinking about a potential scenario.
And when you put yourself in the mindset like, oh, if something
happened, what is my response? You're already going to be less
flat footed than if you were going to go, hey, I'm just
sitting here, I'm drinking coffee, I'm peeing in a bottle,
I got binoculars. And then one day something crazy
happens. Like someone puts a gun to the
back of your head and you've never thought, what's your
response to that? When you're thinking through
what happens if there's an explosion?
What happens if there's a train wreck or gets derailed?
What happens if somebody runs into a bus and knocks it over or
someone shoots up a school? You already are going down that
mindset of like, OK, well, these are going to be the things that
I have to do, but these are the things I don't have.
I was joking with guys. You guys tell me what you think
about this. This is like Kyle Seraphin's
crazy ideas. I was doing an alert training
and Kevin and I were talking about this before we went live
about alert something. I trained how to do a lot of law
enforcement officers. This is the standard response to
active shooter and we got to do it in a school.
And so we cleared a bunch of buildings really, really fast.
You're doing what's called direct a threat to go through
the door trying to find where's the shooter, who's causing the
bloodshed and how do we stop it? Most patrol officers are not
armed with flash bangs. Is that your experience,
gentlemen? 100% it would be an extreme
rarity if they were. OK, so nobody's got a flash
bang, but what you could do is you could buy like a dozen super
bouncy 1 inch rubber balls for like 10 bucks or less on Amazon
and put them in your dump pouch. And if you had a bunch of rubber
balls, I can tell you this. If I threw a rubber ball through
the doorway in a, in a hallway that I was about to go in, if
I'm in a school hallway and I sent the rubber ball in, that's
going to hit chalkboards, bounce off desks, you know, hit maybe a
person who makes a noise, that's going to give you the same, you
know, it's going to give you a not a superior distraction and
it will give you a distraction. My buddy was like, you should
carry chickens with you. I'm like, dude, if I could carry
a chicken, throwing a chicken through an open doorway would be
very distracting if you had to enter a room, you know, because
all you're looking for is just a little bit of a purchase where
your training and your experience comes in.
So thinking things like that outside the box, it's very
inexpensive. Your department's never going to
pay for super bouncy balls, but you probably could buy like 10
for everybody, you know, for like a couple of bucks if you
lost a bet kind of thing, you know, at roll call.
So something to that effect. I just want to kick that as a
just one of those ideas that's kind of outside the box.
We call it the Chuck E Cheese Flash Bang.
I guess that's right. So individual ownership of the
of the problem, yeah. So feel free to riff on that as
much as you guys want, and then we'll try to step up the chain a
little bit and see what we think for the next level up.
From a aircraft analogy you brought up the Bojango spot with
that was Youssef, wasn't it? Yeah, yeah, it was Ramsey and
Youssef. Yeah.
Which as in the aviation world, right?
Put your own mask on before you help someone else.
Great analogy here. Clean your own house as an
individual officer, as an individual firefighter, as an
individual paramedic. Get yourself in the best shape,
the right mindset, get competent, become better at a
skill set on the lowest level and then inspire, help and help
people up alongside of you have those conversations.
I think if you put your own mask on before you help anybody else,
and that by the way, that includes heaven forbid if it
does go to October 7th style house to house in tight knit
communities. Making sure that your actual
family in your home is locked down so that you can have
clarity of purpose in the field. That you don't have to be
checking your phone being like, is my family OK?
Because you put the mask on, your mask on, their mask on, and
now you can actually go go do work and add value.
Yeah, well, Kevin. Will you talk about rescue task
force a little bit from the individual, let's say
firefighter slash paramedic, EMS type one, What they can do if
they don't have rescue task force to what the rescue task
force looks like maybe and and how they can advocate for that
with their own either chain of command or they're they're
politicians. Sure.
So for you that don't know what a rescue task force is, it's
usually a group of firefighters or paramedics teamed up with one
to two law enforcement. That team then can go into warm
zone type scenes where there's been a shooter, there's no
active threat, where there's no shots being fired currently,
maybe the shooter's been already, he's deceased, been
under arrest, has fled. We can insert these, what they
call RTF teams into those areas to go take care of the wounded.
The reason we have law enforcement with them is because
most first responders are not armed.
They have no way to defend themselves.
So it's it'd be unsafe to send paramedics and firefighters just
into a scene with no type of protection because if the actor
was to come back, they could be attacked themselves and have no
way to defend themselves. So the RTF is a group of
firefighters and paramedics or EMT's, any type of medical
personnel being LED into a scene by some type of security force.
We've seen it around the world before.
Really. The RTF, the alert training, it
was hours before they got EMS into some of the victims.
These, you can watch some of them on video.
These people bled out over 20-30 minutes and died while watching
on security cameras. If we could have just got first
responders and they're quicker to care for them, they possibly
could survive. And so that's what the RTF model
is, is getting first responders into those scenes quicker.
Yes, we train all the law enforcement to do medicine.
But if it's you laying there bleeding out, would you rather a
cop that's done it once come to save you or firefighter permit
that does it daily come to save you?
And so that's the the model of the RTF is getting in there
quickly with trained medical personnel and plus with law
enforcement that's in one of those scenes.
If it's an active scene, they really don't have the time to
take care of all the injured people because they should be
hunting down and securing the scene.
So that's kind of RTF model. If you haven't already trained
on it, Holly, you should really get, I mean, alert has training.
There's all kinds of agencies that are doing it.
Reach out to some of those agencies.
Get on the bandwagon is great training.
It not only works for like active shooters, big threats, it
works on almost every scene. If you start getting used to use
an IC using these RTF models, any type of scene, you could use
it on a bus wreck. You get to a bus wreck, a couple
firefighters team up with a couple medics, they go in, they
triage, they treat, they become an RTF.
There's just not a threat. So you can use it day-to-day.
You can use it, you know, on those active scenes, but it kind
of helps you your day-to-day business and you know for the
big if it ever has happened in your area.
So Kevin, what is the amount of equipment that's required for an
individual medic or a firefighter to have?
And then what are the odds that it's actually getting funded?
And then maybe I'll move to Peter, since I know he's got
some gear background on if that's something that somebody
could individually fund it and solve that problem too.
Sure. So obviously I come from a
governmental type agency that, you know, they, they have a
budget and they try to stay under it.
And so a lot of times getting equipment isn't always easy.
Luckily we've, over the last few years we've received lots of
funds. So we've been able to provide
every single paramedic and every single firefighter in our area
with a vest. So if they go in RTF they have a
ballistic vest on. How common is that, you think?
That's becoming more common. But like I said, for private
EMS, I can almost say that most of them probably don't have
won't have one and don't have one because I said, why would a
private agency spend $1000 to put a vest behind the seat of an
ambulance when they're trying to make money?
So that's just lost funds for them.
So they don't want to spend that money because they obviously
they have hundreds of ambulances like some of these private
agencies do. That's 10s of thousands and
hundreds of thousands of dollars that they'll lose.
So we keep it pretty simple. We send our medics in with very
little equipment. We just send them in with stuff
to stop bleeding, tourniquets, quick clot, chest seals, even
some needle decompression stuff for if they have some type of
tension pneumo. But minimal skills goes.
Like I said, 10 years ago when we did this training, we sent
our medics in with whatever they wanted to take.
So you get paramedic, all this tools they want, they take in
monitors and airway bags and stuff.
And we were seeing that it was taking 1015 minutes per patient
for them to triage and treat these people and we'd have 5-6
patients total. They'd take them over an hour to
get them off scene. So we took all the toys away.
We get them very minimal toys wherever they get in there and
they use what they have and every single person we send in
has the same amount of equipment.
So they have two tourniquets, 2 chest seals, 2 quick lights.
If they run out, they look to their buddy next to them who has
the exact same bag, the same numbers.
So everybody going in has a small cache of equipment, but on
a big scale we have a bunch of equipment and there's just
divvied out per person. Yeah, it makes a lot of sense.
One of the things that I like to also highlight to people too,
which you guys may have heard this and maybe haven't, I
remember sitting through an after action that was talking
about the Pulse nightclub shooting.
And there were what, 49 casualties on there, 49 people
that were killed during that attack, but seven of them
actually died, not from their primary wound, but from
positional asphyxia, which means they were just stuck against a
wall. They were crouched down.
They ended up succumbing to shock and they, they basically
just crushed their own Airways. And the, the salvation for those
people would have been literally moving them and putting them in
the recovery position and they would have actually ended up
surviving that attack. And seven out of 49 is a huge
number one in seven people could have been saved by literally
pulling them off the wall. You can imagine shots being
fired, people trying to get very small.
And when they did so, they actually blacked out and then
ended up just crushing their own airway until they succumb to
their injury. So all of that is kind of wild
to think that it doesn't take a lot.
I think Kevin's up point is very well taken running in the more
you give paramedics, the more they'll use, the less you give
them, the more they're going to just treat life threats.
And most people are used to what's what's the call?
It's either grab and go or stay and play, right?
Absolutely, and we want them to grab and go.
It's a hard mindset to come sometimes push into people.
What So if they're if, what do we think about the the idea that
local law enforcement Peter would be even capable of taking
a, let's say a Sue Espante type of medic who who sourced their
own problem, who works for private or maybe they're in a
volunteer department, which I think there's a lot of those as
well in this country. Volunteer department popped up
and law enforcement officer gets this guy says, Hey, I'm ready to
come with you. I'm willing to go into the hot
zone or the warm zone, even though I'm not armed.
Like Are you ready to do like a like an RTF type thing?
I Again, the best time to have that conversation is before you
need it. It's the the problem again with
all of the law enforcement first responder everything the private
sector. Obviously you can't compel the
private sector private companies that I mean, you probably won't
even see them until you call the scene cold.
But for let's take firefighters. You have a part time firefighter
or fire department and literally this is a very easy thing to do
when you're on patrol is go talk to your firefighters and say.
Just out of curiosity, what would it take us just to get
this going? So if we're in a warm scene, I
bring you up, we have somebody guarding you.
You start working on people and we start pressing into the
scene. You're not, this isn't the first
officer on scene. It might be the 10th officer on
scene, 8 of them already pressing deep into the building.
And there's easy people to get at the at the entrance of the
building. This isn't unreasonable, but if
you try to have that conversation on the scene, it
will never happen. This stuff can.
The fact that we're all talking right now, and if you're
listening and it hasn't happened, this is the perfect
time to start the conversation. And you're absolutely right,
We've actually run into that on a couple calls in some of the
very rural areas we run with is we didn't have enough medics and
they just picked up a volunteer at the time who thought they
were out. They kind of trained them up on
scene. They thought they were good for
it. The minute the first shot fired,
they locked up because they got scared because probably the
first time they've ever been around gunfire and they just,
they locked up. Nothing on them.
It's just it was new to them and they got scared.
So if you train it and you're around at least once or twice
before the the event happens, leisure slightly prepared for
the day when it happens. Boone, what do you think?
Yeah. So there there's different
components to this from a law enforcement perspective,
obviously the teams need their their terms, you know, their
tactical medics that go with them.
I like the concept of the what you call the RTT where they're
unarmed, but they still go into the hot zone.
I like that concept. RTF yes, yes, I like that
concept as well. But when we talked about from a
bottom up approach or a community approach, we're
looking at training as many people as you possibly can stop
to be bleed, you know, TCCT, triple C, whatever you want to
call it. That includes like on a high
school level, you shouldn't be able to graduate high school if
you don't know CPR, first aid and you know, stop the bleed.
It should be a requirement. The more people on a community
level that can provide as a force multiplier basic life
saving skills, it relieves the burden for law enforcement, for
first responders, EMS, firefighters to focus on other
things. So if we look at it as something
we can make scalable, start with the individual.
And I know everyone's not going to run around with the first aid
kit, but just starting with those capabilities on a
community level, then looking at the first responders, you know,
on the local level, county level, then the state level.
So we're dealing with multiple problems and that's kind of how
we have to look at it. Like from a law enforcement from
the first responder perspective, yes if I'm law enforcement I
want to stop that threat first, but I should have the ability to
save someone's life with the skill set and the kit on my
body, not in my vehicle. From the fire and or EMS
perspective, yes I need units that can go into that hot zone
and deal with these situations while law enforcement is moving
to contact to eliminate that threat.
But then on the community level, taking that individual
responsibility, we need individual civilians to be able
to provide life saving aid to each other.
And to touch on that real quick, we'll stop the bleed.
We've done a big push of stop the bleeding in Texas.
Actually, they passed some laws, I believe is law that every
student that goes to high school should take stop the bleed.
They're supposed to be, they have to or they found some
loopholes because of obviously a lot of kids didn't want to take
it. They didn't want to be pressured
that instead of that they have to take it has to be offered.
So every school that's offered, but most kids don't take it
because they don't have to. And so the the bill got pushed
through it. It was, you know, good intent,
but you know, there's always a loophole and they found the
loopholes and it's just got to be offered, not taken.
But there was a push for every, I think you even started middle
school. Middle school or high school age
students were supposed to have have to take stop the Bleed
while in school, but it turned into a a choice instead of a
have to. It's a step in the right
direction. Absolutely.
But to Boone's point, it's the other people have said it
before. Be your own rescue, especially
if you're have a family, if people are going to be looking
to you. So do you have the capability as
an individual right now, today? Do you have the the training and
equipment to stop a critical bleed or at least slow it
significantly until you can get professional medical care?
If the answer is I don't know, or, umm, maybe it's time to take
a very inexpensive Stop the Bleed course.
Learn how to use a tourniquet. Learn how to pack a wound.
Learn how to use a chest seal. I mean those three together,
Kevin, I mean, what else? Yeah, you had a touch on that.
I mean, obviously we teach all our law enforcement stop the
bleed and sulfate bloody aid because obviously you can bleed
out from a femoral bleed in less than 3 minutes.
It's probably going to take me 3 minutes to get to you if I'm on
scene already. So for the general public, if
you have a significant bleed and you're waiting for me, the
paramedic, to show up in 8 minutes, you possibly will be
dead before I get there. So if you can't treat yourself,
treat your family members, you're not giving me anything to
work with. I mean, obviously we have lots
of tools to try to salvage bodies and salvage patients, but
I have to have something to work with.
If all the blood is already bled out before I get there, I have
nothing to work with. So those, those community
projects are huge for us. I mean, that's why CPR is so
important. If we run on a patient that
there's active CPR before we get there, there's such a greater
chance of me getting that patient back.
If there's zero CPR, there's almost a zero chance of that
patient coming back. I.
Was going to say it's very easy for folks to to find a March
video. It cost you nothing to go out
there and find something to do a March assessment, which is the
acronym that we teach for trauma assessments.
We're not talking about medical here.
We're not talking about you come home and there's a 75 year old
person who's falling down the stairs and they're not
breathing. Like that's a different animal
altogether. You don't.
There's all kinds of complications, but in a
traumatic event where something happened and an otherwise
healthy and otherwise functional person is not functional today,
there's a thing that you can go out there and do.
And you know, I, I know Kevin will back me up on this one, but
what is the first thing they always teach you when you get on
scene? What is the number one thing?
It's the number one fail for any of the national registry.
I don't know if you're talking. About scene safety, right.
So scene safety is the number one thing.
They always coach you. Yeah, you got to know scene
safety. I always tell people that the
first thing that happens is before you consider the scene
safety, just go ahead and panic. You might as well do it 'cause
if things are really bad, if, if you are in a, on a, on a
situation where people have been shooting, where there's an
explosion, where something is on fire, where a vehicle is
flipped, if there are people that are their lives are in
danger, you will eventually panic if you're a regular
person. So you can do it before or
during or after. And I choose to do it before and
get it out of the way. So I just look at it and go
like, that's terrible. Like look what that, that's the
craziest thing I've ever seen. There's a bus full of nuns and
it's on fire. Like then what do I go do?
And then you start going through and if you have patience, you
can go through the March assessment.
There's the M is always massive hemorrhage, which is what Kevin
was talking about for bleeding out.
But I actually always add move as the number one thing.
I do 2 Ms. which not everybody talks about.
But again, it's the same story that would have saved people's
lives at the Pulse nightclub, another terrorist event.
It's the same thing that will let you not do CPR next to a
toilet or make you deal with somebody who's bleeding out in
the middle of an active roadway. You can move your patient.
You don't have to treat people where they lie.
A lot of us forget that 'cause we get very, very focused in.
So the first time that you've thought about helping somebody
who's either bleeding or or trying to die on you and you're
going to stop it, it shouldn't be the first time that you've
ever thought about where you're going to do it and how you're
going to do it. And so even just even just
listen to a podcast. Like I said, the PJ Med cast is
a really good one for the March assessment as well.
It's very short. You can do it in like 15 minutes
and every patrol officer should do it.
Everybody who has kids should do it.
You're a bad father if you haven't.
I'm just going to go out there and say that you're, you're not
doing, do you know justice to your family if they think that
you're going to react to something dangerous if you have
not actually thought about it before.
And every one of us and every mom has done it to every single
mom in the world has the worst fantasy of something terrible
happening to their kids that keeps them awake at night.
So what are you going to do about it?
Are you going to just Daydream and, and think that it's
terrible? Or are you going to go out there
and say, OK, well, I'm going to put some steps and some actions.
I'm going to go do some research instead of watching, you know,
Alex Clark's podcast about the, the new bread mill that's
grinding up grains like my wife is, you go out there and figure
out how to stop a bleed. It's something it cost you
almost nothing except a few minutes of your time.
And, and that's step one, which is showing that you actually
care. Do you guys want to talk about
like maybe the management concern?
I think Kevin and and Boone and and Peter could probably weigh
in on some of that and maybe Sarah, maybe some of the
buzzwords that can, that can push people towards, hey, my
command needs to make a bigger decision.
I'm in the middle and I'm facilitating the frontline
officers or medics concerns and I'm going to funnel it up in a
meaningful way that actually get some action if that's feasible
even. Yeah.
I mean, one thing I could bring up that would get some people
paying attention is the fact that there is pieces of these
plots with suicide bombers. We haven't had suicide attacks
in the United States. That's one thing we're not
prepared for. And another thing is within the
suicide vest, there are reportedly chemicals.
A lot of our agencies aren't even prepared to deal with the
right hazmat situations when they respond to this.
So they need to be prepared if they think maybe a suicide vest
blew up. How do we respond in that case
if we don't know what was in the vest as we're rushing to the
scene? And what sort of quantity could
we even be talking about? If it's man born, it's got to be
a smaller kind of area, right? Yeah, these vests are very
small, like, like the ground ones are just the one that
airplanes are like, right? OK, so nothing like the Sri
Lanka backpacks that they did? That were, yeah, these are
pretty large, Yeah. This isn't going to put a huge
crater in the ground. No, but we can't exclude those
either though. Yeah, because TATP is too easy
to make and they use it all the time actually.
Yeah, So what what does that conversation look like going to
management? OK, fine.
The possibility of doing a hazmat plus explosive, that
possibility of individual shooters or small teams.
And you know, your medics need to work with your your cops.
Your cops need to know that they're going to be able to
bring a medic because otherwise you're going to have more
casualties. How does that conversation
happen at a mid management level?
Again, the, the IT comes down to a really easy conversation.
If it happens here and you knew about the possibility of it and
you did nothing, how are you going to be comfortable with
yourself when you go to go home at night?
Like let's, I'm not saying the sky is falling, but if you're
going to, when you're in the, let's say you're a patrol
Sergeant, you hear the podcast and you're like, I'd really like
to get something moving on this. There is a duty in law
enforcement to be like, OK, I know we don't want to change.
Nobody likes change. But if there is a new attack
methodology and it is plausible, right, that it's happening all
over the world, we know that it's the real thing.
There's been, I mean, Farouk, the shoe bomber, Richard Reed,
there's been suicide bombing attempts actually in the States
quite a bit, but nothing to the large scale attack of multiple
bombers intermingled with shooters and stuff like that.
But what's what is the harm in simply saying, can we tabletop
this? Like, let's say it never
happens, great, everybody high 5.
But what's the harm in table topping it right now?
Because Boone, you know, Kevin Kyle, you guys know there's
always time at APDI. Don't care what PD it is.
There is always time. Maybe not at any hour of the
day, but there are plenty of times where there is literally
nothing going on and you could find time for a tabletop.
Or even if it's like 5-10 minute online training, something you
assign to your entire troop. If nothing else, people gives
them a snippet of what they might see.
And most people that are in the profession or professional, if
they don't know the answer, they're going to go researches.
So if nothing else, it triggers them to go research it further.
And then you start those processes where you get middle
management, the officers thinking about it.
If you ask upper management enough times, nobody wants to be
the squeaky wheel. But in all reality, if you ask
enough times, usually you'll get permission to do it.
And if you get enough people back in you, you'll get
permission to do it. And so there's little
educational bits. It gets strikes interest and
people understand it gives them a little bit of education and
hopefully they further their education somewhere else.
Boone, what do you think? I think you guys have good
points. Also think I agree with a
delivered indifference or, you know, liability, the liability
monster is always a good motivator.
But, but going a little deeper, like if, if you can talk to the
command staff, say, hey, this is just leadership training.
You know, if, if we can handle this, regular law enforcement
problems are easy. So kind of selling it as
leadership training too. It's like, hey, we're going to
come up with this crazy elaborate plan.
You guys as leaders, how would you solve this problem?
You know, kind of push that angle as well.
But I agree with you, it all starts with the conversation.
So setting something up and selling it as a thought
exercise, being able to demonstrate here's here's a
topic for a management meeting. This is what we could do as a
problem solving exercise. And then by the way, push it out
to your your frontline supervisors.
And by the way, here's a couple of medical training podcasts we
think are useful. Here's something that either our
frontline officer should be considering when it talks about
how to troop wounds. We should be doing that anyway.
We should have the ability to save ourselves.
That's a good idea. Same thing your fire station,
your guys that are doing shift change when A changes for B or B
for C, it's like, hey, this is something we're listening to.
This is a tactical problem that we might have to find ourselves
involved in. You know, who do you know over
in the, in the, the Police Department that you met at the
softball game where you guys all call each other a bunch of wimps
or whatever it is that that the fire and police are always
doing. You know, how do we take that
that natural rivalry and turn it into something that's productive
and the people that we have contact wise.
And so everybody on every shift should, you know, especially the
smaller places. There's no reason that people do
not know officers even in my small time that I did working
with fire departments like you know who the officers are that
respond to the things in your area.
And if you don't, then you should because this is not a
difficult thing to do. Often times those sync, those
shifts sync up enough times that you can at least recognize some
of them. So being able to make that kind
of cross. So the first time, as I had a
Ranger instructor one time who told me you never want to try
out a new dance at the prom. It's a good way to look like a
fool. And if you remember that as as
the the worst case scenario is you're going to go out there and
try to do something that you've never done before and you think
you're going to do it. Well, we all know anybody in the
training space talks about this. You almost never rise to the
occasion. You nearly always fall back to
the level of your training and, and what you've actually
considered and some of the things is just considering it.
It's just a thought exercise. Like you just said.
It's like, hey, what if we walked through this?
How do we solve it so that when that problem comes up, you go,
well, this is similar to that thing that we solved, except
there's a couple of new parts and this is maybe how we handle
that. Peter, you look like you're
ready to chomp ahead and. Go the body can't go where the
mind hasn't been. It's one of my favorite sayings
that anybody who's been in the profession of arms or the
profession of caring for people, if you haven't been mentally
table topping, you're before a convoy, you're like, what could
all go wrong on this, right? If this happens, what do we do?
If that happens, what do we do? And it's not always contact and
maybe it's just a vehicle breaks down, then what's our plan on
that? Or flying, especially with
terrorism in the aircraft is our job was to get get the bad guy
at altitude. So OK, if this guy doesn't get
out of the lab and we know the timing is within this many
seconds and this many seconds for the average build for a lab
visit, If this guy doesn't get on the lab, what's my first
course of action? What's my second course?
When do I breach the door? Right.
All these things. And as you start going through
there, every time you put a mental Rep through, you are
exponentially better than that person who's just a mouthpiece
sucking down coffee and collecting a paycheck.
Run the mental reps because the body can't go where the mind
hasn't been. So put your mind there.
Yeah. And another thing that's really
important when we talk about suicide vests, but not being
large vests is just a simple concept of standoff, right?
It's really simple. You can implement it, do it
right. It's it's going to save lives.
Yeah, most people I was, I've been asking the bomb question.
Most people outside of the bomb techs, right, the EOD guys are
the, the explosive breachers. They know this stuff pretty
well. But I'm like, let's let's assume
HE 5 lbs of HE, What is your minimum standoff just for blast
over pressure, not primary, secondary, tertiary mechanisms
of injury. And most people are like, I have
no idea. There's literally an ATF bomb
chart. You can look it up and save a
copy on your phone. Be like, if it's this big, be
this far away. And this is something that, So
what you're saying there, some of these resources are all in
one place. And maybe that's what our, our,
that's what our duty is here that we're providing a little
bit of a talk through. This is a, this is a, you know,
like a free spooling kind of idea.
But I like the idea and I know Peter has the, the mentality to
do so. We pull that one page because I
know for a fact that medics get it in their hazmat section,
which is not significant and they don't ever touch it again.
But every time that they recertify it, every time they're
doing continuing education, they get hit with a hazmat.
But I don't know that every law enforcement officer has that.
So this information does exist and it is spread about, but it's
most likely not in the individual that is going to 1st
encounter that threat. But it can be available to
somebody with a high school education.
It doesn't require an advanced degree to know how far back to
stand because of fill in the blank chemical to fill in, you
know, because they let everybody have this access.
If you're a trucker and you drive with certain things you
have knowledge set that maybe other people don't have and it
is accessible. So dot has them, ATF has them
when it comes to bombs and chemicals, having a one sheet on
each of these that wouldn't take much to carry around a little
flip book and it would cost almost nothing for some admin
person to be able to do it on light duty.
It's like, oh, cool, you, you, you, you hurt your knee.
I got a buddy right now who's on a hurt knee.
You hurt your knee while you were chasing down a subject and
get into a fight. No big deal.
Your job is to print off this eight page little booklet and
laminate it and put it on a little D ring for us so we can
have it in the patrol cars. So that when something crazy
happens and you find out like there's a dude and he's down at
our school and he's threatening to blow himself up and you're
like, holy crap. I've actually heard about this
scenario before. This is not the first time I've
thought about it. And it's not just because I
watched it in a horror or a movie somewhere or some kind of
an action movie, you know, where John Wick goes and takes a pot
shot with a handgun at 300 yards and knocks him out because
that's not how it happens in real life.
In real life, that guy probably detonates if he if he's decided
to do so in this country. But having that, that combined
knowledge, maybe that's what our, our maybe not a white
paper, maybe a, a walkable list of a couple of things sharing
those skills. Kevin, do you, do you remember
the last time that you did a hazmat and whether or not that
stuff was included? I mean, we rarely do hazmats.
I mean, there's so much protection in the trucking
industry and stuff nowadays. Most of our hazmats are like a
diesel leak. So there's not a whole lot of
toxic chemicals out there just because they're protected pretty
well. We use apps, the Cameo app on
our phones. You can look up any chemical
that was ever made. So if you can get numbers, I
think the biggest problem is a lot of our medics and stuff,
when you tell them bomb making materials, they have no clue
what you're talking about. All the different types, they
wouldn't even know what to research because they just look
up, OK, all bombs are the same, you know, they just think it's
one chemical when we know there's tons of chemicals how to
make it. And I think that's a lot of the
problem is just they don't have the initial knowledge to even
know what to go look for. Yeah.
I think the as far as on explosives that the easiest way
to go is to take suspicious versus unattended items.
Suspicious. If you're in one of these
attacks, homeland attacks, whether it's an ISIS or Al Qaeda
or whatever it is, and you have blatantly out of place items
that are at high traffic areas. Or it would be, it looks like it
could be at the rally point for where law enforcement is
staging. Then simply look at the size of
the object and then you can extrapolate that into a possible
yield because you can only fit the weight of explosives into a
certain thing water bottle. I mean, you can't fit 20 lbs of
explosives into this water bottle.
You just you can. So you look at the object and
then you equate the object to a size of possible HE yield.
Now, if it's low explosive, you're better off because it's
it's not going to do as much. But if you always assume high
explosive, HE is high explosive, then there's low explosive.
Low explosive is like gunpowder kind of thing right?
Or fireworks. High explosives is C4.
Maybe we wrap this thing up for people's attention span, but we
do so in a way that maybe like a a tight couple of minutes where
people if that if I put this up front and and let them have
something to grab onto. It's like I want to have in
turn, Sarah hit the threat. Boone, if you'll, if you'll hit
frontline officer stuff, Peter, you'll hit management and then
I'll have Kevin kind of do like EMS.
I'm looking for takeaways from from the gentleman as far as
like action items for people to go out and do Sarah, if you can
as as keenly and as tightly kind of layout the thread that people
are going to see. I know the background of it is
fascinating and there's plenty of talk on that, but I think I
think a lot of people can't track networks.
They don't know who you're talking about.
And, and we've, we've proven that with people's attention
span, they either have the ability to listen to three hours
of you going into the deep network or they've got no, no
network ability at all. They can't, they can't fathom
listening to any of it. So let's see if we can do threat
in phases one more time and then we'll do reaction to it and
we'll keep the two of you on screen for a SEC.
Perfect. Yeah, When we're talking about
the threat, it's very simple, right?
There's two phases. You can one, we call it where
you live, work and play, right? These are community level
attacks. Small teams, let's say 5 to 10
man attackers. They could be doing attacks in
multiple locations, let's say, where there's a supermarket,
where there's a hospital, etcetera.
So you got to think through that on public transportation.
Then, you know, like we experienced on 9/11, the
terrorists are focused on another attack at that
magnitude, and it's going to be very similar.
They're going to have the similar type of targets,
aviation targets, right? So think through that.
If there's another ground stop and you got separated from your
family, you're stuck in Iowa, right?
Taking a long leg home. Like, what was your plan with
your family if you're not there for a few days?
And then on the last pieces, the tiers are going to target our
government institutions and government facilities.
And as you know, that's going to freeze the entire system, right?
So so expect delayed responses is expect not having all the
information you need. But you can still, you know,
take care of yourself. Don't panic and have a plan all.
Right. Boone, I'm going to throw over
to you individual parent or grandparent community level
stuff. What are the action items you
see people being able to walk forward and accomplish without
any kind of special resources? Situational spatial
environmental awareness. Having some type of plan, having
a plan for their family that doesn't involve the the the
breadwinner or the leader of the family.
And then really refining their medical skills and integrating
within the community, whether that be a be a face of
faith-based organization, a Kiwanis Club, whatever that is.
And start from the ground up to be resilient as a community.
I like it. And then I'm going to go to
Peter. We'll talk about individual
officers, like the people you're talking to and what you're
advising those guys, since I know you're doing that every day
out there talking to cops, like what are you telling cops they
need to do? And and then we'll go and do the
EMS access. First, first and foremost, look
into what Sarah has been presenting.
Except that evil is real. Except that the body can't go
where the mind hasn't been. Start table topping.
Start bringing awareness to this.
You have a lot more power as an individual officer in your
entity than you give a credit for by simply speaking up and
saying, hey, have we actually looked into this?
What do we do? If X?
You can do that in roll call and you can change a lot by just
simply having the courage to step up and speak and say, are
we prepared for this? And we all know the answer that
no one is. That's perfect.
All right. And I'm going to go to Kevin.
Kevin, let's talk about what does it look like on your end to
your, your individual, let's say St.
Medic, your firefighter types and then I'm moving through the
chain there. So if firefighters and
paramedics, if you haven't already accepted the alert model
with the RTF type of training, please seek it out.
Learn what it's about. Like I said go to your admin, a
lot of classes are free, they're state funded.
If not, reach out to other agencies that are doing it and
at least start the ball rolling. All those RTF to like I said you
can transpire anything you learn in one of those classes into
live bombing, into a bus wreck, anything.
So all those mass casualty type scenes, train on them.
When it comes to chemicals, any type of chemical you can see in
some type of attack. Research it.
It's easy on your own. We all know we are busy running
calls, but I think like Peter said, there's always time and
take the time to research that stuff.
If you haven't gone over blast injuries in a while, research
them. Try to figure out what it's
about. The like you saying the
different size of bombs, what's your standoff?
And on the community type level, Boone hit it is go get your stop
the bleed training. Learn how to take care of
yourself, become a stable person that can handle your injuries
yourself. So when I arrive I have
something to work with. What are the the best websites
that you would recommend for people to go and look at if they
want to refresh themselves? And obviously that the
professional websites are one thing, but can, if you want to
just refer people where they can tell their community, especially
stuff like alert, things like that, you want to kind of just
plug a couple of things. So Alert is a state of Texas.
There should be a website. You go to the Alert and they
have all different types of classes you can take Most of our
law enforcement and some of them are for first responders.
So for all the people in the field that are, you know, first
responders, go to the Alert website, Stop the bleed is a
national campaign. Go on the stop the bleed
website, locate local instructors.
There should be a list of them T triple C classes, TEC classes,
all those that's a NAEMT hostos. You can go on their website and
look for instructors in the area that are offering those classes.
Those classes are, you know, 8 to 16 hours.
So they're they're a little more expensive and they're a lot more
time consuming. But stop the bleeds.
Most of those are free and you're looking at two to three
hours of your time to get them. A lot of agencies are doing this
for free around just for community events, so reach out
to those people in those websites and you should be able
to find something. Outstanding.
Peter, do you want to plug any resources and then let people
know where they can find you if they've got questions and you do
stuff with faith-based communities as well and all
that. So if you want to punch it out.
Yeah, on our end, obviously anything from us at Archway
Defense, any of the social media, reach out if we can help
you. We have a ton of free resources.
Last time I was on we were talking about faith-based giving
away free PDF on how to spin up a safety and security team.
We can't be everywhere. But if you take initiative like
Boone was talking about, like just stand up and start taking
the the self initiate your own protection.
Archwaydefense.com Reach out to us anytime.
Fantastic. Boone, Sarah, anything you guys
want to plug in and resources you think people should know
just. Yeah, The Gathering Storm book
by Scott Mann, A lot of things we're talking about, he puts it
in a book form where you can lay it on, you know, your your
lieutenant's desk and start that conversation.
And it guides a lot of these conversations and it doesn't
really give answers. Those answers are up to you to
figure out. But it does start that
conversation and it gives you some of the things to think
about. Yeah, and.
That's it. It's called the Gathering Storm,
and it's at tfpineapple.org. It's the Task Force Pineapples
putting it out. Very good.
Can we order those by the cases? I feel like I want to give them
out as I drive around. I've already sent him a question
on that they're having. There's the it's faster to get
the e-book right now. OK.
But that's something that's
available by e-book. And as you said, that's not the
solution. This is the question.
The solution is going to be, it would it be fair to say
individual to each individual's resources, their community,
their terrain, their culture and so on.
It's going to be different depending on how dense your
population is, your response times and everything else, what
equipment you have. So everybody has to individually
inventory those. Is that more or less accurate
guys? Absolutely. 100% all right.
I think we're going to call that right there.
I think that's that's enough information for people to
absorb. And if they have more questions,
we'll put links in the description.
Anything that's been discussed as far as websites, folks will
put them down below as well. So you guys can click through
all the guests on all the social media platforms if you like.
And if there's something you want to clip out of this that is
valuable to you as a person, as a faith community, as a
business, if it's valued to you, if you are in a law enforcement
or a, any kind of agency that's working in government, just take
it. Just take it.
We don't care. That's not what this, you know,
the idea is, is that less people are left unaware of a potential
threat out there. And you know, God willing, it
never happens, but I don't think God willing is a plan.
I don't think hope is a good plan.
I think you guys would all agree with me on that.
Having seen people say God forbid I have to do this.
I always say God, God put me in the position to respond properly
when when something happens. So hopefully that's all of our
prayer, our prayer of readiness. Thanks to all the guests for
joining us. Thank you, Peter, thank you,
Boone, thank you, Sarah, thank you, Kevin for being here in the
studio with me. And God bless all of you guys.
God, that's the Sunday sit down. Thanks so much for joining me.
I hope that was informative. I hope you took something away
from it. And like I said, share it with
anybody that will get them ready.
The more people that are prepared for anything that may
come their way, the better off we are as a nation.
Thank you so much for listening. Listen, if you guys are enjoying
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