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We were fighting a war against 
evil, big fan of your work, mate

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house Sarah, I can't thank you 
enough for speaking out. 

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FBI whistleblower who helped 
expose government censorship. 

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Well, hello, my friends. 
Welcome to the double shot. 

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We're doing from Shot Show. 
Yeah. 

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We've been having a shit show 
this morning. 

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I'm sorry to start off with that
but that's what it's been. 

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We have been going since about 
five a.m. local time which is 

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been pretty nuts. 
Landed last night went straight 

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in and you can see on joined by 
Joe Altman. 

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Who's going to be co-hosting 
with me today? 

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Say hi Joe. 
Hi Joe. 

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Hi Joe indeed, folks gonna have 
a lot of fun. 

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We're bringing on an FBI 
whistleblower. 

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Who I think you guys are gonna 
really enjoy the story. 

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He's also a Firearms 
manufacturer owner. 

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So that's pretty cool too. 
And his name is Zach 

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schoffstall. 
Hopefully I got the name 

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correctly. 
We've been working on a show. 

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Stop gosh, darn it. 
I knew I was gonna do that. 

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It's we were basically retarded 
at this point we're gonna have a

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lot of fun. 
Now, let's go ahead and get 

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started with a sponsor reads. 
And this is what we're all about

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here, getting it done. 
And also you guys might want to 

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take control of your own health.
So go ahead and roll that for 

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me. 
We got Apollo working in the 

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studio and let's put it up there
so it's TWC DOT health, slash 

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Kyle, you might be worried about
a globalist pandemic, scare, it 

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might be a power play. 
You can see the Donald Trump 

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just got sworn in, but we've 
also seen that California, 

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governor Gavin Newsome. 
Declared a state of emergency 

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because of bird flu, the H5 N1 
that we've been talking about. 

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It's been reported in Louisiana,
you've got critics like Nicholas

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holder who've been warning, that
pandemics may be used to 

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weaponize against us. 
We see that in 2020 challenges 

36
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against Donald Trump's agenda 
including nominations of RFK Jr.

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So is it a Health crisis? 
Is it a power play? 

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If you guys are worried about 
checking in on that, you should 

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take control of your own. 
Health do so by getting the 

40
00:02:38,100 --> 00:02:40,400
wellness companies contagion 
emergency kit. 

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00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:43,100
Dr. Peter McCullough has been 
talking about this being a 

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necessary tool to be able to 
keep yourself hedged against it.

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The medical board approved five 
critical life-saving medicines 

44
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like Ivermectin, Tamiflu 
nebulizer, hydroxychloroquine 

45
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and every household can now have
access to these hard to get 

46
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medications in the event of 
another pandemic, you can take 

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control, we always say, prepare,
don't repair get yours by 

48
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filling out a digital intake 
form today, the kid arrives in 

49
00:03:02,900 --> 00:03:05,400
one to two weeks, do not wait 
for a deep state plan. 

50
00:03:06,300 --> 00:03:09,300
To be enacted, you can get 
yourself ready. 

51
00:03:09,300 --> 00:03:12,700
You can prepare and set of 
repair head to TWC Health. 

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Slash Kyle again, t w, c DOT 
health, slash Kyle, the promo 

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code, k, y l. 
E will say 32 bucks on that one.

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00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:22,600
It'll save you percentage on all
the others. 

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If you're so interested. 
You guys ready? 

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Let's get into it. 
And here we go. 

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Here we go. 
Look at this guy. 

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Zach, how tall are you honestly?
511, he's five eleven, and that 

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tells you that I'm actually five
foot two that showing on a 

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block. 
He's standing on a block and Joe

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is 5.7 and a half random midgets
in here. 

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Absolutely ridiculous. 
Okay. 

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My fighting stance, get down to 
your guys level. 

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Yeah, I like that. 
Like you're like about ready to 

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go and send some like rear kicks
into the gut. 

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Yep. 
Let's talk about you or an FBI 

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agent for how long. 16 years, 
okay? 

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What made you want to be an FBI 
agent? 

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So, interesting story. 
You know, like all of us, trying

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to figure out what I was going 
to do in life at a high school. 

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I actually went to a trade 
school first, and a two 

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associate degrees. 
One was an engineering one was 

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in machine Manufacturing. 
Ultimately took those credits 

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and went on and went back to 
Montana State, it was pursuing a

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Bachelors in mechanical 
engineering. 

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So thank thermodynamics. 
Thanks a materials 

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differentials. 
He's forgot. 

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I've been there life sucked. 
Yeah, it's not fun. 

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No. 
So price is a conscious. 

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What am I doing with my life and
went home? 

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One day and made a list number 
one on race car driver. 

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Who wouldn't want that, right? 
Number two was FBI agent. 

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Okay, so how did you, wait, how 
do you put those two together? 

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Mmm, no direct connection other 
than I wanted a job that was 

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more than a paycheck. 
I wanted a job that was going to

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be fulfilling rewarding and it 
seemed like a Life Adventure. 

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So, you know, I think after FBI 
agent was CIA. 

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And then, I don't really, I was,
so the first two show, they 

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checked together. 
I mean, I race car driver FBI 

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agent and no Kyle, it works CIA 
agent, doesn't work. 

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Well, I mean, listen, when 
you're a college kid, you don't 

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know, like, you know, just 
throwing stuff on paper. 

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So that's ultimately what set my
sights on that. 

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I call the recruiter, I think 
maybe in the Denver division 

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because I was back in Montana at
the time and I said, hey I think

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I'd like to be a special agent. 
What does it take? 

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She's like, well, bachelor's 
degree a three years. 

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Professional work, experience B.
He said, okay, well, I'm in 

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college. 
What is professional? 

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Work experience? 
She said not flipping burgers. 

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So, okay, great, that's not true
anymore. 

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I don't think well, that that is
true standards have dropped 

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standards have definitely 
dropped. 

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But anyway, I was like, okay, 
well how about the military? 

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It's like great. 
We hire folks from military all 

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the time and I don't know, right
then and there I kind of 

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formulated a plan. 
So I hung up with them, went 

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back to the college and 
interviewed with army and Air 

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Force RTC. 
This is pretty 9/11, and the 

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army guys were like, yeah, we 
found Engineers like, I mean, 

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the dude's a clear. 
Minefields like, yeah, ask, what

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down the Air Force, guys? 
And like, yeah, we've got you 

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want to go pilot or we've got 
Air Force. 

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I was at military, and so like, 
what do you want to do? 

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Like, well, I like options. 
I don't want to be a pilot. 

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I don't want to do a 10-year 
commitment. 

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Yeah. 
So anyway long short of it. 

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I changed my degree to political
science, get my GPA is high as I

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can get it and went in. 
They sucked me from military 

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intelligence. 
And I did, you know, I 

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commissioned in 04 and I did 04 
through 08, you know, four 

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different Employments. 
Last one was to Iraq for seven 

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months with Tesla's Troy, he 
encounter ID work and you know, 

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when I was eligible, I applied 
for the bureau looked about a 

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year and a half to get through 
between deployments. 

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When Quantico and then went to 
Richmond division, what was your

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Quantico experience? 
Like, were you impressed based 

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on coming out of the Air Force? 
What I was impressed with was my

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peer group, like you're sitting 
there in that room of 50 for the

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first time and everybody kind of
goes through what they've been 

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doing in life. 
Yeah. 

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And we were the stereotypical 
stereotypical class where I 

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think, you know, the average age
was 31 and it was, you know, 

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Army Ranger, you know, Oda 
right, nurse. small business 

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owner, you know, maybe swallows 
a couple Intel guys Just an 

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impressive group like focused 
handful. 

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We had a girl great. 
She'd been a prosecutor and 

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Atlanta like County prosecutor. 
Definitely not the majority I 

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think only a couple of the 50 
words attorneys, right. 

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Quite a bit of military folks in
the group. 

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So that was impressive 
instruction was a bit of a mixed

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bag from the instructor 
standpoint. we had a class 

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supervisor, who was a Stream 
douche canoe. 

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Nice. 
You want to put his name out 

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there? 
Uh know I try to avoid like 

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doing hard rain dropping. 
You know, when I do interviews 

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this is like I'm not looking the
same folks per se. 

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My classmates know who he is. 
He was Infamous, he was Infamous

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for sending out an email after I
graduated where he was calling 

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out a VMI graduate for being an 
FNG and calling him by his first

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name in an email. 
After he graduated, and was now 

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a special agent. 
I called a dad by his first name

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in an email, right? 
They all have one. 

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Yeah, I also had somebody come 
up and said, you know, that 

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there's going to be this person.
He's a dad. 

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He's going to be here. 
I was doing like a meet and 

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greet or a show and tell. 
And I was like, that's amazing. 

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We're gonna get along great. 
I'm also with EAD, I've got 

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three little, you know, three 
little kids. 

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This is going to be cool and 
they gave me a look like I had 

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something growing out of my 
forehead. 

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Yeah, people don't really 
understand that if they haven't 

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been in the bureau, but there is
kind of a Speak until spoken to 

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a little bit, you just came out 
the door, you know. 

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Shut. 
Your mouth, even though you're 

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in your 30s, probably, or you're
in your late 20s, they don't 

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think you're a real person until
you've been there long enough to

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count or something to that 
effect. 

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Yeah, there's definitely that 
hierarchy. 

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I mean, having gone back to 
internet instructor at the at 

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the Academy myself. 
I mean there is that good is 

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that a good thing? 
I think it's a mixed bag, it's 

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like the people in the bureau. 
There's some phenomenal people 

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that work in the bureau. 
I mean we were attracted to the 

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Bureau for the reason of like 
that from the outside looking in

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the agency looks exceptional. 
And there is some exceptional 

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aspects of the FBI. but as a 
cross-section of society, It's 

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got some turds. 
Hmm right? 

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What percentage of tears? 
Are mmm. 

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All right, so at the Academy I 
would say, you know, let's look 

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at like the heroes and heroes 
like a bell curve. 

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So like you got a When I came 
through, it was a class of 50 

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when I went back as an 
instructor. 

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You know it was classes of You 
know, sections of 250 and then 

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broken into subclasses. 
It was a bit different, probably

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like when you went through. 
But anyway, let's look at a 

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group of 50 as a bill curve, you
know, of that 50, you know, 

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you're going to have maybe five 
that are heroes like they're 

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great. 
They're phenomenal, human 

190
00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:33,600
beings, a phenomenal Americans 
and they need a little FBI pixie

191
00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:34,300
dust and they're going to go 
out. 

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00:10:34,300 --> 00:10:36,400
They're gonna do great things 
for America, but they're gonna 

193
00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:38,300
do phenomenal criminal in our 
security investigations. 

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00:10:38,300 --> 00:10:41,600
They're going to be on SWAT 
teams or Christ, negotiators or 

195
00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:44,000
whatever. 
The other side of the bell 

196
00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:46,600
curve. 
You've got maybe five or three 

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00:10:46,600 --> 00:10:49,100
zeros or seven. 
Sure. 

198
00:10:49,100 --> 00:10:51,800
I mean, it's got a very little 
by class but they're there, 

199
00:10:51,800 --> 00:10:53,500
right? 
If the bell curve is real and 

200
00:10:53,500 --> 00:10:56,100
you see that when you're in 
there as a classmate, you know, 

201
00:10:56,100 --> 00:10:58,400
the ones are in your class that 
you don't want to be anywhere 

202
00:10:58,400 --> 00:10:59,600
near. 
They want the firing line, 

203
00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:01,800
right? 
And you want to run from the 

204
00:11:01,800 --> 00:11:04,400
Firearms room, when everybody 
gets handed their gun for the 

205
00:11:04,400 --> 00:11:08,600
first time. 
So I have, I mean, that's a 

206
00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:11,200
pretty big number right? 
Having six, seven, eight people 

207
00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:14,500
in a room that I mean, how many 
times do they cycle through FBI 

208
00:11:14,500 --> 00:11:16,900
agents classes? 
Is it once a year twice a year 

209
00:11:16,908 --> 00:11:21,300
three times. 
Well, I went through, it was 800

210
00:11:21,300 --> 00:11:24,200
850 students a year and it was a
class of 50, every two weeks. 

211
00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:28,800
When I went back as an 
instructor, it was 250 students 

212
00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:33,300
roughly to 225 to 250 starting 
on the quarters. 

213
00:11:33,300 --> 00:11:37,600
What's the washer? 
Whoa, so here's another one. 

214
00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:42,700
So when I came through in 2008 
The only thing you would fail 

215
00:11:42,700 --> 00:11:46,700
out for was either academics. 
So you had three legal tests and

216
00:11:46,700 --> 00:11:48,500
a couple of others, you had a 
test for interview 

217
00:11:48,500 --> 00:11:51,700
interrogation. 
It was all book work tests and 

218
00:11:51,700 --> 00:11:53,900
it was a you had a pass by an 
80%. 

219
00:11:53,900 --> 00:11:59,500
If you didn't pass an exam, you 
had to retake that Within Short 

220
00:11:59,500 --> 00:12:02,000
time period, maybe 48 hours or 
something like that so that you 

221
00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:05,600
are still with your class and if
you fail it, again your toast, 

222
00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:09,400
the only other thing you would 
fail out for was for firearms. 

223
00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:13,400
And if you fail to pass 
qualifications with your class, 

224
00:12:14,100 --> 00:12:18,500
they would roll you into a 
program where we were shooting 

225
00:12:18,508 --> 00:12:21,000
40 caliber Glocks at the time 
clock 22s. 

226
00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:25,700
They would put you into a Glock,
19 9mm and you would do a 

227
00:12:25,700 --> 00:12:30,000
two-week intensifier program. 
Phenomenal instruction, and it 

228
00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:33,500
would take a poor shooter and 
make them a decent shooter, 

229
00:12:33,500 --> 00:12:36,600
right? 
And then, if they could pass 

230
00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:38,700
with the next class. 
So again, it's every two weeks, 

231
00:12:38,700 --> 00:12:40,900
if they get past the next class 
and they would fold into that 

232
00:12:40,900 --> 00:12:45,100
class and they would go, there 
was the fit test, which had a 

233
00:12:45,100 --> 00:12:48,900
pretty when I went through. 
At a fairly low failure, I took 

234
00:12:48,900 --> 00:12:52,100
the back. 
The first fit test has a high 

235
00:12:52,100 --> 00:12:54,200
feel right. 
When I went through, then you 

236
00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:56,200
took it again and had a pretty 
low fell, right? 

237
00:12:56,200 --> 00:13:00,200
So, there was a little bit of A 
deck seems stacked kind of 

238
00:13:00,208 --> 00:13:02,700
impression here, like they want 
a bunch of us to fail, so they 

239
00:13:02,700 --> 00:13:03,800
kind of come down on us for 
something. 

240
00:13:04,900 --> 00:13:09,400
But ultimately, so the class of 
50 I think we lost seven or 

241
00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:12,300
eight. 
Okay, dude, academic failures, 

242
00:13:12,300 --> 00:13:17,000
roll backs for firearms and I 
think we had well we had one 

243
00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:19,000
girl that got picked up on a DUI
the first weekend. 

244
00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:21,500
So he got toasted. 
Yeah. 

245
00:13:21,500 --> 00:13:27,000
And then Yeah. 
So, I mean, you're Awesome. 

246
00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:32,300
Maybe maybe 10% ish where where 
in the FBI did people learn to 

247
00:13:32,300 --> 00:13:33,800
do? 
Backflips from the gun come out 

248
00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:39,700
to actually use one of my 
students he was and he was A 

249
00:13:39,700 --> 00:13:44,300
great guy, he's a solid guy, but
and this is going back to your 

250
00:13:44,308 --> 00:13:46,000
comment about, like, kind of the
arrogance. 

251
00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:49,400
That's kind of in the bureau and
how I tried to handle that as an

252
00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:52,200
instructor. 
He was, I wouldn't say he was 

253
00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:55,500
like in Hero version on the Belt
curve, but he was definitely 

254
00:13:55,500 --> 00:13:59,000
well in like the top 80% of the 
Belk review, smart is athletic. 

255
00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:00,800
He could shoot, he could process
things. 

256
00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:05,700
Well and Hogan's alley, which I 
taught But he was there again, 

257
00:14:05,700 --> 00:14:08,500
very weird. 
I know that wasn't the first 

258
00:14:08,500 --> 00:14:10,600
backflip that he's ever done in 
front of people at a club. 

259
00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:13,600
I saw it. 
I saw him do backflips with 

260
00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:15,500
decades so I had heard about 
that video. 

261
00:14:15,500 --> 00:14:19,800
Didn't know who it was and the 
first version of video I saw was

262
00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:23,100
it a little bit of a distance. 
And I saw him setting up for the

263
00:14:23,100 --> 00:14:25,300
backflip, and then exactly who 
it was, because I'd seen that 

264
00:14:25,308 --> 00:14:27,300
more like back handstand or 
something, right? 

265
00:14:27,300 --> 00:14:31,100
Yeah, like Flip Flip. 
That's not the problem. 

266
00:14:31,100 --> 00:14:34,200
That I had even the gun falling 
out of his walking away. 

267
00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:35,800
He was walking away and shooting
somebody. 

268
00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:37,000
That's. 
Yeah. 

269
00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:42,100
I mean, poor Trigger Discipline.
Yeah, you know, control on his 

270
00:14:42,100 --> 00:14:43,200
computer, right? 
I mean, just froze. 

271
00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:46,600
It, he went he was brain housing
group froze. 

272
00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:51,500
Yep. 
I mean, that is a legitimate, 

273
00:14:51,500 --> 00:14:53,300
you're done in the bureau 
moment. 

274
00:14:53,300 --> 00:14:56,900
It is not even instantly though.
They trust that day. 

275
00:14:56,900 --> 00:15:00,900
They tried to save him today. 
Um, it's unfortunate because he 

276
00:15:00,900 --> 00:15:03,000
was a good Agent, he would have 
gone on to do, good cases. 

277
00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:06,300
Yeah, but so going back to your 
comment about, like, kind of the

278
00:15:06,300 --> 00:15:10,400
arrogance and, and The good and 
the bad of it in the bureau. 

279
00:15:11,400 --> 00:15:13,500
So when you come through the 
academy and you kind of have 

280
00:15:13,500 --> 00:15:16,400
that moment for me in the class 
it was humbling of like man. 

281
00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:18,600
There's some there's some 
amazing Americans in this group.

282
00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:21,100
I'm not sure how I slipped 
through the cracks. 

283
00:15:23,700 --> 00:15:27,000
But then you realize that that's
actually not the problem, it's 

284
00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:29,800
not the problem but you also see
you get to, you know, you get to

285
00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:31,300
experience. 
So many instructors are very 

286
00:15:31,300 --> 00:15:33,900
humble folks, men and women of 
great and then you've got the 

287
00:15:33,900 --> 00:15:36,600
other end like our class 
supervisor Mr. Douche canoe. 

288
00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:40,000
Extremely arrogant. 
Yeah. 

289
00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:44,600
So When I was an instructor 
going through, I would see the 

290
00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:46,900
kids. 
See the young men and women 

291
00:15:46,900 --> 00:15:48,000
right in their late 20s and 
stuff. 

292
00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:49,900
They were coming through with 
that Eric's Edge. 

293
00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:52,700
Part of it. 
I feel like though is the 

294
00:15:52,700 --> 00:15:54,800
academy culture where they're 
constantly telling you like, 

295
00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:57,700
they were a 10,000 people for 
this seat and you got it and 

296
00:15:57,700 --> 00:15:59,200
nobody else could have accept 
you. 

297
00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:01,900
And then you walk out there and 
you're like ah unless you're old

298
00:16:01,900 --> 00:16:04,400
enough to go like you're 
fluffing me because you're 

299
00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:07,500
actually praising yourself. 
I mean no one can build a self 

300
00:16:07,500 --> 00:16:10,400
looking ice cream cone like the 
bureau can How many times did 

301
00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:12,000
you hear that? 
It was the best job in the 

302
00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:15,100
world, I mean a lot. 
But I mean how many times has 

303
00:16:15,100 --> 00:16:17,100
the FBI say we're the premier 
law enforcement organization, 

304
00:16:17,100 --> 00:16:19,500
constantly? 
I mean, but maybe we are, maybe 

305
00:16:19,500 --> 00:16:20,700
we are. 
What's the litmus test for that?

306
00:16:20,700 --> 00:16:22,900
Well, the question I always had 
was this, how many Premier 

307
00:16:22,900 --> 00:16:25,100
agencies, have you ever worked 
with or how many really Elite 

308
00:16:25,100 --> 00:16:27,000
operators? 
Have you seen that tell themself

309
00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:28,100
they're Elite over and over 
again? 

310
00:16:28,100 --> 00:16:29,600
Sure. 
Because it's not that common. 

311
00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:31,900
It turns out you don't need to 
when you have that, no, you 

312
00:16:31,900 --> 00:16:34,500
don't. 
So going back to the arrogance 

313
00:16:34,500 --> 00:16:37,100
issue. 
I would try to address that head

314
00:16:37,100 --> 00:16:40,600
on with the class and say, 
listen, you know, they're 

315
00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:42,400
getting close to graduation and 
say, all right, you guys are 

316
00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:44,900
gonna walk across the same, same
stage that I walked across. 

317
00:16:45,900 --> 00:16:47,500
You're going to get same 
credentials that I got. 

318
00:16:48,300 --> 00:16:52,400
Doesn't make me anything. 
Yeah, but like me as soon as you

319
00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:54,600
leave the academy, as soon as 
you show up on, somebody's 

320
00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:57,900
doorstep your first week and 
you, you know, open those 

321
00:16:57,900 --> 00:16:59,200
credentials up and show it to 
somebody. 

322
00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:03,400
You're gonna have an instant 
amount of recognition and some 

323
00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:07,000
version of credibility that has 
nothing to do with you. 

324
00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:09,000
They don't care what you did 
before the bureau that they 

325
00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:11,400
don't care that you survived 
quote unquote, a 20 week 

326
00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:13,900
Academy, it has everything to do
with 100 Years of other folks 

327
00:17:13,900 --> 00:17:15,800
showing up and, like, putting 
bad guys in prison. 

328
00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:21,400
So check that ego at the door. 
And for the rest of your career 

329
00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:24,099
because somebody has done it 
better than you has done, it 

330
00:17:24,099 --> 00:17:25,700
longer than you has done more 
than you. 

331
00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:30,900
Settlement and especially if you
end up going up in the ranks in 

332
00:17:30,908 --> 00:17:34,000
the bureau, you know, everybody 
came through the door the same 

333
00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:37,700
way just because you become an 
Sac or this, that doesn't make 

334
00:17:37,700 --> 00:17:41,200
you a better agent. 
So remember that as you go 

335
00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:44,700
through the bureau, when did the
Dei become the thing that you 

336
00:17:44,700 --> 00:17:46,600
hear about this kind of 
degradation of the FBI? 

337
00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:49,400
Sure. 
And I have a friend that that 

338
00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:53,200
retired from the FBI. 
Probably, when you were just 

339
00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:57,800
getting into the FBI and, and he
said, it's just not, it's a, 

340
00:17:57,800 --> 00:18:00,900
it's a shell of its former self.
So, when did that become? 

341
00:18:00,900 --> 00:18:04,100
When, when did the ethics of the
FBI start your role were, you 

342
00:18:04,100 --> 00:18:06,900
could notice it where you notice
that you were at the decisions 

343
00:18:06,900 --> 00:18:09,100
that you were that people were 
asking you or the things that 

344
00:18:09,100 --> 00:18:10,700
people are asking you to do, you
had to make a decision on 

345
00:18:10,700 --> 00:18:11,900
whether or not this was ethical 
or not. 

346
00:18:12,700 --> 00:18:15,000
That was always that way. 
Or is it? 

347
00:18:15,008 --> 00:18:19,500
Just did it turn into that way? 
Again, I think it's a it's a the

348
00:18:19,500 --> 00:18:24,300
bureau's cut of our culture. 
So I went through in 2008. 

349
00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:27,500
And there were females on my 
group. 

350
00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:32,000
There were males and females 
that I've put into this Euro 

351
00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:36,200
category of the bell curve. 
Up. 

352
00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:39,700
Do they get promoted? 
I guess some of us some of them 

353
00:18:39,700 --> 00:18:41,600
are still in the bureau, all 
right? 

354
00:18:41,608 --> 00:18:44,800
But as a as an example, I'll 
give you I'll give you a quick 

355
00:18:44,808 --> 00:18:46,600
story. 
So I'm in the academy. 

356
00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:50,000
Chill Hall, one morning. 
So Saturday and by myself And I 

357
00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:53,400
have this young lady who's in my
class who sits down across from 

358
00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:57,300
me. 
And I do my darndest to avoid 

359
00:18:57,300 --> 00:19:03,900
eye contact, but she walked me 
anyway. and she says, exact you 

360
00:19:03,900 --> 00:19:07,800
run like longer a lot, right? 
Yes, I do. 

361
00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:12,800
Where is this going? 
She's like, so I Ran like longer

362
00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:16,000
the other day. 
Do the surveillance deer follow 

363
00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:19,100
you too. 
Oh my gosh, I'm locked in now 

364
00:19:19,100 --> 00:19:21,700
that I'm in it. 
Like, we got it. 

365
00:19:21,700 --> 00:19:23,800
We have to actually set the 
expectation for people to 

366
00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:27,100
understand that every FBI 
training thinks that they're 

367
00:19:27,100 --> 00:19:28,600
that they're being observed at 
all times. 

368
00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:30,500
That's what they're told you're 
constantly on a job interview 

369
00:19:30,500 --> 00:19:33,600
and so some people let it go to 
their head where they think 

370
00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:36,600
ninjas are falling out of the 
sky or the ceiling anywhere that

371
00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:38,100
they are things in the trees 
that are following them. 

372
00:19:38,100 --> 00:19:41,000
Because at any moment, you might
let your guard down and they 

373
00:19:41,008 --> 00:19:42,100
will prove that you are not 
worthy. 

374
00:19:43,300 --> 00:19:45,200
I've never heard of that. 
I mean, I've heard the rumors 

375
00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:46,500
that people talking about the 
surveillance here. 

376
00:19:46,500 --> 00:19:48,500
This is someone actually had 
this conversation with you was 

377
00:19:48,500 --> 00:19:50,600
wild. 
So, uh, for those that have 

378
00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:53,300
never been to Quantico on the 
Marine Corps base before, there 

379
00:19:53,300 --> 00:19:57,700
are deer everywhere everywhere 
and also lieutenants just lost 

380
00:19:57,700 --> 00:20:03,000
with the deer quite quite you 
just rock on their back just 

381
00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:05,000
kind of looking like life sucks.
All right. 

382
00:20:05,008 --> 00:20:07,300
So anyway, so she says that and 
I'm like come again. 

383
00:20:07,300 --> 00:20:11,200
She's like well, so, at first, I
thought they were robots because

384
00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:14,500
I'd run and I would see the deer
there that I'd go past with the 

385
00:20:14,500 --> 00:20:19,900
camera on its neck and But then 
I realized, when I kept seeing 

386
00:20:19,900 --> 00:20:22,900
the same deer, it wasn't a robot
that they have trained these 

387
00:20:22,900 --> 00:20:25,800
deer. 
So follow us, when we go out the

388
00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:31,600
back gate and I'm like wow I'm 
not worried. 

389
00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:32,800
Are you in the middle of this 
conversation? 

390
00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:34,900
She's on arm so I'm okay. 
You're right. 

391
00:20:34,908 --> 00:20:38,100
So I was like, well, that's 
impressive know, I've not had 

392
00:20:38,100 --> 00:20:40,600
that experience, have a great 
day. 

393
00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:44,000
So I immediately found my class 
counselors and relate to them. 

394
00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:47,200
The story of this girl is, is on
a different planet. 

395
00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:54,100
And my response from them was 
was that, you know, we need 

396
00:20:54,100 --> 00:20:56,300
scientists for the lab and like,
do they have to have guns? 

397
00:20:57,500 --> 00:21:02,200
up anyway, she checked some of 
those categories so I think Dei 

398
00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:06,700
is a modern Its term. 
Yeah, but it goes back. 

399
00:21:06,700 --> 00:21:10,200
I think decades. 
Now there are some phenomenal 

400
00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:13,700
female FBI, agents and female 
support, you know, professional 

401
00:21:13,700 --> 00:21:17,400
sport in the bureau. 
This individual wasn't one of 

402
00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:23,800
them but when I came through as 
an instructor, there was this 

403
00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:28,300
renewed push for a number how 
many female new agents were 

404
00:21:28,300 --> 00:21:30,400
going to be coming to the 
academy which at the time was 

405
00:21:31,900 --> 00:21:35,700
25, or 28% was what was coming 
out of the ad of hrd, who was a 

406
00:21:35,700 --> 00:21:38,200
non-agent And now I understand 
it's up to 30. 

407
00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:42,700
They want 30% of the agent 
population to be female by 2030,

408
00:21:42,700 --> 00:21:44,300
right? 
It's just an arbitrary number 

409
00:21:44,300 --> 00:21:48,700
and which roads the quality of 
who you're going to put again, 

410
00:21:48,700 --> 00:21:52,000
if that's your prioritization of
the number, then you're going to

411
00:21:52,008 --> 00:21:53,900
have to not prioritize something
else. 

412
00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:58,400
I mean I was there at the 
Academy as instructor when 

413
00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:01,500
several of the females that came
through that launched that class

414
00:22:01,500 --> 00:22:03,100
action lawsuit. 
That was recently settled. 

415
00:22:03,100 --> 00:22:06,000
Oh, I had two in my they were, 
they were atrocious. 

416
00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:10,800
The ones that I observed, as an 
instructor made legitimate 

417
00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:15,200
hardcore judgment failures 
shooting unarmed role players. 

418
00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:18,200
Let's let's shoot, let's say 
really specifically what we're 

419
00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:20,700
talking about. 
So folks there was a lawsuit 

420
00:22:20,700 --> 00:22:23,000
that was launched by a series. 
It was like 33. 

421
00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:26,300
I want to say, but it was some 
number and double digits of 

422
00:22:26,300 --> 00:22:29,700
female trainees that were kicked
out of the FBI's Academy at 

423
00:22:29,700 --> 00:22:31,900
Quantico. 
I saw it as a student. 

424
00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:36,200
Zach sawd as an instructor. 
The one who was abbreviated 

425
00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:37,900
we've talked about on this 
podcast before, I don't mind 

426
00:22:37,900 --> 00:22:39,500
saying her name. 
Elena para, I had no business 

427
00:22:39,500 --> 00:22:41,500
ever carrying a gun. 
She was my classmate, she's a 

428
00:22:41,500 --> 00:22:43,800
nice gal, she's a marine 
veteran, which is strange 

429
00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:44,900
because she was like, about this
big. 

430
00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:48,000
She failed things that were not 
pass fail. 

431
00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:50,600
She failed things like 
familiarization with the 

432
00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:52,400
shotgun. 
I couldn't hold on to it and 

433
00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:55,300
actually complete the exercise. 
So I've had the same experience 

434
00:22:55,300 --> 00:22:58,800
from my buddy, Gerald Boyle, see
friend, we've had people come 

435
00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:00,000
through the class that we're so 
bad. 

436
00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:01,500
You were seeing, if the 
instructor side we were seeing 

437
00:23:01,500 --> 00:23:04,400
it as their fellow students true
to the point where students were

438
00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:06,700
going, you can't give this 
person a gun and put them in a 

439
00:23:06,700 --> 00:23:08,600
major, urban area, because 
they're going to end up killing 

440
00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:11,400
somebody. 
But they got paid out Millions. 

441
00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:12,300
Yes. 
Okay. 

442
00:23:12,300 --> 00:23:14,100
That's that's the lawsuit for 
you guys. 

443
00:23:14,100 --> 00:23:15,900
You can fact check it out there.
You can pull the articles on it.

444
00:23:15,900 --> 00:23:18,900
It's, it's a big thing. 
And there's a lot of backstory 

445
00:23:18,900 --> 00:23:20,700
there. 
So 2008. 

446
00:23:20,700 --> 00:23:24,800
When I went through the academy,
there was no Failing Hogan's 

447
00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:27,000
alley, right there was no 
practical applications. 

448
00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:32,000
It was training all training. 
but when director Comey came in,

449
00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:38,600
he wanted to he said he wanted 
to hire on the merits but 

450
00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:42,700
understood that there was this 
push to hire more minorities and

451
00:23:42,700 --> 00:23:46,000
females he's like, we solved 
that with Recruitment and we 

452
00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:49,300
wash it out at the Academy. 
But the issue was the academy 

453
00:23:49,300 --> 00:23:52,700
was not designed per se as a 
washout program, it was designed

454
00:23:52,700 --> 00:23:55,600
as an educational training 
program and if you couldn't pass

455
00:23:55,600 --> 00:24:00,100
the academics, then it was black
and white people making 80% on 

456
00:24:00,100 --> 00:24:00,900
the test. 
It's a fail. 

457
00:24:00,900 --> 00:24:04,800
There is no subjectiveness to 
it. so that's when suitability 

458
00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:07,900
is created, that's when every 
block of instruction within the 

459
00:24:07,900 --> 00:24:11,900
academy You know, had to have 
some kind of a test to it. 

460
00:24:11,900 --> 00:24:14,200
So that's when they started 
creating tests for Hogan's 

461
00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:16,600
alley. 
You know, test for DT, that was 

462
00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:20,400
going to be Pastor Phil, right? 
But also was coupled with the 

463
00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:22,400
same time where the bureau was 
still trying to be a 

464
00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:25,100
quote-unquote intelligence 
agency and they were doing this 

465
00:24:25,100 --> 00:24:29,800
CIA model embed program where 
the agents and analysts were 

466
00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:33,000
going to the same instruction 
approximately for the first 10 

467
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:34,700
weeks of the 20 weeks Academy. 
So, all right. 

468
00:24:34,708 --> 00:24:37,200
Well, think about that. 
You know, early on when they 

469
00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:40,000
still doing that, the new agent 
trainees were getting their guns

470
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:42,600
until almost week 10 so they 
kept bringing that forward and 

471
00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:45,400
forward but they still aren't 
coming to Hogan's alley for week

472
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:47,900
10. 
So it just put them on an 

473
00:24:47,900 --> 00:24:51,500
accelerated learning curve. 
Now, I'm not trying to defend 

474
00:24:51,500 --> 00:24:53,600
the actions of any of these 
folks that were dismissed 

475
00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:56,000
because there were males, 
females dismissed, white people,

476
00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:58,300
black people, you know, Purple 
People doesn't matter. 

477
00:24:58,308 --> 00:25:01,600
You know, they had failures 
failures were documented, and if

478
00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:03,600
they racked up enough failures 
and they went to a suitability 

479
00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:07,700
review board and the section 
Chiefs and 80s would make a 

480
00:25:07,700 --> 00:25:09,500
decision. 
This person stays this person 

481
00:25:09,500 --> 00:25:12,400
goes, no individual instructor 
ever made any of those 

482
00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:14,800
decisions, they just documented 
what they saw, what the goal 

483
00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:17,100
post removed. 
The goalposts. 

484
00:25:17,100 --> 00:25:20,400
It really depended on who the 
leadership was at the Academy, 

485
00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:23,400
right? 
The goal posted had changed is 

486
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:28,000
if you were trying to prioritize
someone's gender or someone's 

487
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:30,900
skin color. 
As a prerequisite for coming to 

488
00:25:30,900 --> 00:25:34,400
the academy, then you're just by
the nature of it, you're going 

489
00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:38,100
to have to push down other 
Performance Based criteria. 

490
00:25:39,900 --> 00:25:42,100
But generally is an instructor. 
I still start kind of the same 

491
00:25:42,100 --> 00:25:43,800
belka by thought I saw as a 
student. 

492
00:25:44,900 --> 00:25:47,200
You know, we had some Heroes 
come through, we had some zeros 

493
00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:48,600
come through and you had a lot 
of good Americans in the middle 

494
00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:51,500
that just needed good training. 
But we're the academy was 

495
00:25:51,500 --> 00:25:54,600
struggling, was trying to be 
both an instructional program 

496
00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:58,400
and a quote unquote, you know, 
testing washout, program across 

497
00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:01,000
the field. 
It's not designed to be a 

498
00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:04,000
selection that's all, and I 
never heard it put that way, but

499
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:06,500
it makes a lot of sense that 
somebody decided to use a tool 

500
00:26:06,500 --> 00:26:08,500
the way that it wasn't designed 
to be used actually. 

501
00:26:08,500 --> 00:26:10,300
That's pretty much like the 
failure of a lot of things in 

502
00:26:10,300 --> 00:26:11,600
the bureau. 
Yes. 

503
00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:14,100
Square peg, round hole, right? 
Absolutely square peg, ground. 

504
00:26:14,100 --> 00:26:16,400
Same thing about having a law 
enforcement agency, be an 

505
00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:18,100
intelligence agency. 
They're just not the same 

506
00:26:18,100 --> 00:26:19,800
animal, you can't make them do 
the same job. 

507
00:26:20,900 --> 00:26:25,100
Agreed. 
So, but I mean, Instructors in 

508
00:26:25,100 --> 00:26:28,800
my unit were phenomenal folks. 
Guys and girls that's training 

509
00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:30,600
unit. 
What so I went through is a 

510
00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:33,400
student, it was called 
preparation unit, PA you 

511
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:36,400
somebody rebranded his tactical 
training unit but it was the 

512
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:41,500
same core of instruction like 
you were to take the Instruct 

513
00:26:41,500 --> 00:26:44,500
the book instruction of 
interview legal Etc, from the 

514
00:26:44,500 --> 00:26:47,200
classroom side and then 
integrate that in with role 

515
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:49,400
player scenarios and at the same
time, you're also teaching them 

516
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:51,900
very basic law enforcement 
techniques of how to clear rooms

517
00:26:51,900 --> 00:26:55,400
and again you're applying the 
Firearms instruction and you're 

518
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:57,100
bringing it into a 
quote-unquote, real world 

519
00:26:57,100 --> 00:26:57,700
setting. 
Yeah. 

520
00:26:57,700 --> 00:27:02,200
But getting off track here, the 
failures that we saw were real I

521
00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:05,800
mean I watched individuals shoot
unarmed role players on the 

522
00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:07,600
floor. 
I watch people shoot their 

523
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:10,100
classmates in the back. 
Now, Grant one of those failures

524
00:27:10,100 --> 00:27:13,200
is just it's documented they get
coached on that. 

525
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:16,300
This is where you fail. 
But when that's repeated and 

526
00:27:16,300 --> 00:27:19,300
repeated and repeated then, you 
know, typically, the magic 

527
00:27:19,300 --> 00:27:21,300
number was three. 
If they had three failures 

528
00:27:21,300 --> 00:27:24,200
across the academy, then they 
would go to a suitability review

529
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:25,800
board. 
You might have a real life 

530
00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:32,100
Dexter amongst you. 
And when somebody shot somebody 

531
00:27:32,100 --> 00:27:33,800
on the other room, she shot the 
couch a few times. 

532
00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:36,400
And then denied, she did it and 
you're sure how can you let that

533
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:38,000
person go forward one? 
They don't even know what the 

534
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:41,100
condition the weapon is. 
So, you know, the That, but 

535
00:27:41,100 --> 00:27:42,900
they're selecting People based 
on their performance. 

536
00:27:42,900 --> 00:27:46,300
Is a totally Yeah, it's on their
non-performing, they're not 

537
00:27:46,300 --> 00:27:48,000
performance. 
But I guess the worst thing is, 

538
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:51,000
is that It was really just 
giving a basic run through. 

539
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:52,500
It's like here's how you walk 
through a room like you said 

540
00:27:52,508 --> 00:27:54,200
rudimentary. 
Here's How You Gonna Knock and 

541
00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:55,000
talk. 
Here's how you're gonna do some 

542
00:27:55,008 --> 00:27:58,000
basic stuff in law enforcement 
and then we're gonna show you. 

543
00:27:58,000 --> 00:27:59,800
We're gonna brief it, we're 
gonna show you. 

544
00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:01,900
You're gonna do one walk through
and then we're gonna grade you 

545
00:28:01,900 --> 00:28:03,500
on it. 
And that's where people started 

546
00:28:03,500 --> 00:28:06,700
seeing deer that were, you know,
surveillance deer in my 

547
00:28:06,700 --> 00:28:07,800
classroom. 
That's where we saw these. 

548
00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:09,400
People just kind of lose their 
chests, they couldn't hold 

549
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:10,400
together. 
So, I mean, I think 

550
00:28:10,408 --> 00:28:12,900
realistically, and again, I'm 
not just fine the settlement 

551
00:28:12,900 --> 00:28:17,200
with these Individuals that, you
know, it's brought the class 

552
00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:20,600
action lawsuit. 
The academy was trying to be 

553
00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:23,400
something that it really wasn't 
and it was trying to do multiple

554
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:26,200
cases of that. 
She's trying to teach agents 

555
00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:29,200
Intel stuff and it was also 
trying to very quickly teach 

556
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:32,500
practical applications far arms 
Etc and then turn right around 

557
00:28:32,500 --> 00:28:37,300
and test them on it and you saw 
failures and the failures were 

558
00:28:37,300 --> 00:28:39,200
real. 
The question is, what would they

559
00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:41,500
have been failures if they would
have gotten more instruction? 

560
00:28:42,300 --> 00:28:45,200
Because again, when you're in 
the 80% of that bell curve, 

561
00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:47,800
they're good Americans. 
But they need instruction. 

562
00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:50,100
Maybe they were cops before I 
wasn't a cop before, like I 

563
00:28:50,100 --> 00:28:52,600
needed instruction on legal. 
Like, I could handle a gun. 

564
00:28:52,608 --> 00:28:55,400
No problem. 
I had done basic CQB in the 

565
00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:58,000
military, no problem. 
But yeah, I'd never really 

566
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:00,200
thought about the 
constitutionality of, you know, 

567
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:01,500
having to shoot somebody in a 
war zone. 

568
00:29:01,508 --> 00:29:03,600
It was either they were killing 
me or I was killing them. 

569
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:08,400
So again it was yeah that is the
question and that is, you know 

570
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:12,100
again a constant refinement from
the Bureau of square peg. 

571
00:29:12,100 --> 00:29:17,100
Ground hole. 
I'm hopeful that, you know, 

572
00:29:17,100 --> 00:29:21,600
we'll get back to a purely 
performance-based category for 

573
00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:27,100
for hiring, but I think only 
time will tell and I think the 

574
00:29:27,100 --> 00:29:30,700
real disservice is some of that 
class action lawsuit are You 

575
00:29:30,700 --> 00:29:33,400
know, the female's that 
graduated went on become agents,

576
00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:37,100
some of them were phenomenal 
and, you know, for others to 

577
00:29:37,100 --> 00:29:40,100
claim that there was bias within
the instruction and that's why 

578
00:29:40,100 --> 00:29:43,200
they fail when their female 
classmate right next to them. 

579
00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:46,400
Did not. 
I feel like that bucket just 

580
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:50,200
doesn't hold water. 
You know, I mean, I I can recall

581
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:54,300
at a female extremely short, 
went through, no prior law, 

582
00:29:54,300 --> 00:29:57,100
enforcement experience. 
She was a class leader picked up

583
00:29:57,108 --> 00:29:59,800
instruction, really well, she 
took criticism really well. 

584
00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:04,000
She went on and she reached out 
to me some months later and 

585
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:05,900
talked about how she 
appreciated. 

586
00:30:05,900 --> 00:30:10,200
My instruction was so inspired 
by it that she started doing 

587
00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:12,100
Iron Man's. 
And then tried out for the SWAT 

588
00:30:12,100 --> 00:30:14,900
team. 
Became a SWAT team leader, our 

589
00:30:14,900 --> 00:30:16,800
became a SWAT team, member 
eventually became a SWAT team 

590
00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:18,800
leader and then his entertained.
I don't know if she actually 

591
00:30:18,808 --> 00:30:23,000
went HRT selection, all from a 
person who's probably five foot 

592
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:26,300
nothing, no law enforcement 
background but so the midgets 

593
00:30:26,300 --> 00:30:28,300
were just talking about. 
Yeah, yes. 

594
00:30:28,300 --> 00:30:32,900
I mean, yeah probably taller 
except for the hair but again, 

595
00:30:32,900 --> 00:30:36,600
it's like shows up that's well 
within the 80%. 

596
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:39,100
Yeah, good instruction becomes a
phenomenal agent. 

597
00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:43,200
But these other folks are going 
to blame their dismissal on 

598
00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:44,800
bias. 
It's not on bias, you could 

599
00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:48,400
cleanse your dismissals because 
of inappropriate structure of 

600
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:51,100
Academia within the academy and 
the testing criteria. 

601
00:30:51,100 --> 00:30:53,900
Yeah, it's certainly not by. 
I felt like women got more than 

602
00:30:53,900 --> 00:30:56,900
a fair shake and sometimes they 
got more looks than they needed 

603
00:30:56,900 --> 00:31:00,000
to do to be fair. 
And yet, if you're using the 

604
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:02,600
tool wrong, I think there is. 
You see this is you're more 

605
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:04,000
moderate than me on a lot of 
this stuff because I'm just 

606
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:06,800
like, wow, it's terrible, like 
throw it out, but seeing it from

607
00:31:06,808 --> 00:31:09,000
the instruction side is helpful.
It also kind of helps to 

608
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:11,300
understand that you've seen it 
from two times as much time I 

609
00:31:11,300 --> 00:31:13,400
had in the bureau. 
Sure, I got to work with guys 

610
00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:16,200
that had three times as much 
experience, and that actually 

611
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:17,800
makes a big difference. 
It's like okay perspective 

612
00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:21,200
matters, what you're seeing what
the evolution if you understand 

613
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:23,400
where the tool broke, you might 
have a little bit more 

614
00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:24,800
appreciation for people who are 
using it. 

615
00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:28,000
Will you walk through rather 
than us, get bogged down on the 

616
00:31:28,008 --> 00:31:30,300
minutia of training which is a 
massive problem. 

617
00:31:30,300 --> 00:31:32,300
And I think that that if cash 
potel gets in, he's gonna have 

618
00:31:32,300 --> 00:31:34,500
to deal with training issues 
right up front. 

619
00:31:34,500 --> 00:31:38,500
But can we walk through career? 
You said you were first office 

620
00:31:38,500 --> 00:31:41,100
agent out of Richmond. 
Walk me through your progression

621
00:31:41,100 --> 00:31:43,200
what you worked because 
eventually we're going to get to

622
00:31:43,208 --> 00:31:46,200
a thing that people are going to
understand why you don't work 

623
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:48,300
for the FBI and you didn't get 
to retire, and I actually want 

624
00:31:48,300 --> 00:31:50,300
to get there as in close enough 
time. 

625
00:31:50,300 --> 00:31:51,800
Yeah. 
Before 6 hours go by. 

626
00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:53,100
Yeah, because we could do this 
for a long time. 

627
00:31:53,100 --> 00:31:54,600
All right. 
So career progression. 

628
00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:59,700
So I came into the academy and 
08 graduated February something,

629
00:31:59,700 --> 00:32:02,700
first week of February in 09 and
went to Richmond division. 

630
00:32:02,700 --> 00:32:05,600
I've been an Air Force 
intelligence officer, you know, 

631
00:32:05,608 --> 00:32:09,000
spent four plus years learning 
all about is you know, Islamic 

632
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:11,500
radicalized terrorism. 
So where do they put me? 

633
00:32:11,500 --> 00:32:13,700
And they put me on the jttf 
seems like a normal fit. 

634
00:32:13,700 --> 00:32:16,100
I spent a couple years on the 
joint terrorism task force in 

635
00:32:16,100 --> 00:32:19,900
Richmond. 
Got to experience the pressure 

636
00:32:19,900 --> 00:32:23,600
of you know the politics behind 
International terrorism 

637
00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:27,800
investigations in 2009 and 10. 
You know I got handed a case it 

638
00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:29,900
was hey this phone numbers and 
telephone apps. 

639
00:32:29,900 --> 00:32:33,300
It's you know 600 Parts removed 
from the supposed terrorists. 

640
00:32:33,300 --> 00:32:35,100
Get a fisa up on it. 
I'm like wow. 

641
00:32:36,300 --> 00:32:39,900
No, but I'm gonna press on here,
and I'm gonna, I'm gonna do a, 

642
00:32:39,900 --> 00:32:43,000
I'm gonna do a subpoena. 
See, it's still on active phone 

643
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:44,500
and get some tools, and we'll go
from there. 

644
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:50,200
But what I did work is, you 
know, I kind of made a niche for

645
00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:51,800
myself on like prison 
radicalization. 

646
00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:55,600
So, you know, we had some salafi
Moss, you know, within Richmond,

647
00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:59,500
we had one most of the 
congregation of that were 

648
00:32:59,500 --> 00:33:02,600
African-Americans, that had 
converted in prison, and then 

649
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:04,300
come back and worked in their 
communities. 

650
00:33:04,300 --> 00:33:07,900
There was a lot of concern and 
in 09 and 10. 

651
00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:11,800
For financial support terrorism,
right? 

652
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:14,300
Material Sports to International
terrorism. 

653
00:33:14,300 --> 00:33:17,600
We, you know, we were always 
looking for money going over to 

654
00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:20,600
Yemen at the time so I worked 
cases like that. 

655
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:24,900
Nothing to prosecution. 
So it was all kind of a case of 

656
00:33:24,908 --> 00:33:26,800
proving the negative. 
So when you're working in 

657
00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:30,800
international terrorism as this 
probably still today if you open

658
00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:34,300
a case you need to prove that 
they're not a terrorist before 

659
00:33:34,300 --> 00:33:36,300
you can close it. 
Not the other way around where 

660
00:33:36,300 --> 00:33:38,500
you like right. 
There's no presumption innocent 

661
00:33:38,500 --> 00:33:40,600
on the National Security. 
There is not and that 

662
00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:43,100
unfortunately also kind of went 
down to the domestic terrorism 

663
00:33:43,100 --> 00:33:44,400
side as well which we can hit 
later. 

664
00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:48,400
So I spent two years or a little
more working International 

665
00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:50,800
terrorism cases. 
And then I was fortunate enough 

666
00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:53,800
to move down to the criminal 
Squad and spent the rest of my 

667
00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:58,000
time in Richmond, working gangs,
drugs and violent crime. 

668
00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:00,900
I want to hone in on something 
my buddy, George Hill, has 

669
00:34:00,900 --> 00:34:03,100
observed from both the Intel 
side and then all. 

670
00:34:03,100 --> 00:34:06,200
So working at the bureau, one of
the sort of working hypotheses. 

671
00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:09,300
We have is that after 9/11 
everybody in the API focused on 

672
00:34:09,308 --> 00:34:13,100
it International terrorism and 
they did that from 01 to, let's 

673
00:34:13,100 --> 00:34:15,900
say, oh wait, oh nine something 
like 2010, you would have been 

674
00:34:15,908 --> 00:34:18,000
right in that mix about that 
time. 

675
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:21,500
They were looking for the next 
generation of it, which was 

676
00:34:21,500 --> 00:34:24,699
homegrown violent extremists, 
which is to say, domestic, Green

677
00:34:24,699 --> 00:34:28,900
Card Us radicalized by overseas 
ideology whether it be Prisma or

678
00:34:28,900 --> 00:34:30,400
something else. 
Which I guess that's probably 

679
00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:32,300
not the nicest way to say it, 
but that's what you call. 

680
00:34:32,300 --> 00:34:36,600
When was that the observation 
you saw before it moved to the 

681
00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:38,699
new version, which is now 
domestic violent extremism? 

682
00:34:38,699 --> 00:34:40,300
Domestic terrorism, did you see 
that? 

683
00:34:40,300 --> 00:34:43,600
HVAC shift? 
Let's say 08 to 11 something 

684
00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:44,300
like that. 
Yes. 

685
00:34:44,300 --> 00:34:49,100
So in 10 years for sports so you
had Yemen was really kind of 

686
00:34:49,107 --> 00:34:52,800
popping off at the time. 
It was looking for that 

687
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:55,000
financial support coming from 
within the United States. 

688
00:34:55,000 --> 00:35:00,500
This is pretty Isis, but it was,
you know, Al Qaeda, the base 

689
00:35:00,500 --> 00:35:03,500
still had an inspirational 
construct to it. 

690
00:35:03,500 --> 00:35:06,400
Isis took a, to a new level as 
far as trying to radicalize 

691
00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:09,700
people remotely. 
But it was looking for 

692
00:35:09,700 --> 00:35:14,400
individuals that were willing 
were being brought into the 

693
00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:19,300
radicalized islamist fold in the
United States, but the threat 

694
00:35:19,300 --> 00:35:22,100
concept was that they were going
to travel to places like him and

695
00:35:22,100 --> 00:35:24,500
where they're going to send 
money or arms to places like 

696
00:35:24,500 --> 00:35:27,900
Yemen and then trickle down from
that would be a lower. 

697
00:35:28,700 --> 00:35:30,700
Sense of probability that 
they're going to do attack 

698
00:35:30,700 --> 00:35:32,600
within the United States. 
So we were looking at them 

699
00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:37,800
exporting their radical us, you 
know, ideologies out or go and 

700
00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:39,500
get aligned with the foreign 
powers that were out there doing

701
00:35:39,500 --> 00:35:40,900
yes. 
In war zones. 

702
00:35:40,900 --> 00:35:41,900
Yes. 
At the US. 

703
00:35:41,900 --> 00:35:44,000
Yes. 
And so like when like you're you

704
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:47,400
know your prison Islam, you go 
into federal prison you gotta 

705
00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:51,200
survive if you're in a medium or
a high security facility so most

706
00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:52,300
people they're gonna join a 
gang. 

707
00:35:52,300 --> 00:35:54,700
Yep. 
If you're if you're white you're

708
00:35:54,700 --> 00:35:56,700
going to potentially, you know, 
either go to a motorcycle club 

709
00:35:56,700 --> 00:35:59,800
or some other kind of white 
nationalist group, or you gonna 

710
00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:02,600
join a religious group, that's 
strong enough to build a provide

711
00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:06,600
identity and protection and most
of a lot of its recruitment 

712
00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:09,200
center. 
Yeah, a lot of that was, you 

713
00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:12,600
know, salafi which is kind of, 
you know, Orthodox Islam, if you

714
00:36:12,607 --> 00:36:14,700
will. 
And so folks would get that 

715
00:36:14,700 --> 00:36:18,200
particularly African-Americans 
would would get that on the 

716
00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:21,100
inside and then they'd come out.
And again, you know, if they 

717
00:36:21,900 --> 00:36:25,600
Bumped into an informant or you 
got any kind of darragh on 

718
00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:28,600
anybody and you had to open on 
that and you had to prove that 

719
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:30,500
they were in a terrorist and 
there's so much I want to say 

720
00:36:30,500 --> 00:36:32,100
right now but I probably should 
do it off camera. 

721
00:36:32,100 --> 00:36:35,800
Yeah, we can I want to get more 
than anything else. 

722
00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:38,200
It's more like foundational. 
Yep. 

723
00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:41,400
And I think it's so interesting 
about what you just said too. 

724
00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:43,900
Is that they were asking you to 
get on people that didn't have 

725
00:36:43,900 --> 00:36:45,400
PC for it. 
Yes. 

726
00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:49,600
And you're push back was no, I'm
gonna go do criminal process 

727
00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:51,900
because if there's PC for 
criminal process, if there's 

728
00:36:51,900 --> 00:36:54,800
something for subpoena, That's 
the tool you're supposed to use.

729
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:59,300
Yeah, I mean I I quickly 
realized that, you know, The sac

730
00:36:59,300 --> 00:37:01,400
needs to show Numbers. 
They want to show that Richmond 

731
00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:04,000
is not an underperforming off 
office from a terrorism 

732
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:06,300
standpoint. 
They want to have Faison numbers

733
00:37:06,300 --> 00:37:08,000
on the board. 
That's what counts right. 

734
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:10,800
Even though legally it's 
supposed to be you should 

735
00:37:10,808 --> 00:37:13,800
investigate with the least 
intrusive techniques possible. 

736
00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:17,700
The reality is unfortunately 
because the bureau tries to 

737
00:37:17,700 --> 00:37:21,300
whatever everything into a 
matrix, That they prioritize 

738
00:37:21,300 --> 00:37:25,800
quote-unquote, Advanced 
Techniques will advise a title 3

739
00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:28,700
pen? 
Register trap and Trace, you 

740
00:37:28,700 --> 00:37:30,200
know, GPS, tracking, warrants 
all that kind of stuff. 

741
00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:32,800
Are, you know, Undercovers or 
Advanced Techniques. 

742
00:37:33,700 --> 00:37:36,800
So from a, you know, a point 
scale, you're going to get more 

743
00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:40,100
points for that. 
So obviously, I didn't straight 

744
00:37:40,100 --> 00:37:43,400
up to my supervisor know what, 
when supervisor came by and 

745
00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:46,000
said, Zach, I need, you get some
visa on those phones. 

746
00:37:46,900 --> 00:37:49,500
It was just kind of like you 
know, north south turn right 

747
00:37:49,500 --> 00:37:51,000
around and just went back to. 
All right. 

748
00:37:51,008 --> 00:37:52,900
Well I mean I gotta if we get 
there we get there. 

749
00:37:52,900 --> 00:37:55,000
But I mean, I still got a 
subpoena these numbers. 

750
00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:57,200
See if they're active, I got to 
get tolls, see what we got. 

751
00:37:57,200 --> 00:37:59,400
I've got to find these people 
behind these phones. 

752
00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:02,000
I got to see what other drog is 
out there. 

753
00:38:02,008 --> 00:38:04,500
Either within the system. 
Once I get a name behind it Etc 

754
00:38:04,500 --> 00:38:07,700
and in that particular case it 
never got there, right? 

755
00:38:07,700 --> 00:38:10,200
You know and you're also saying,
you're doing the least intrusive

756
00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:13,600
means getting to the point where
you know so it's not supposed to

757
00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:15,200
be the tool that you just break 
out of the belt. 

758
00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:18,200
It's not bazooka right up front.
No it doesn't start at the top 

759
00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:20,200
and work your way down. 
You don't go title 3 and then 

760
00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:24,500
kind of scale down to a subpoena
but you work your way up and as 

761
00:38:24,500 --> 00:38:27,500
evidence of criminal conduct 
which International terrorism is

762
00:38:27,500 --> 00:38:30,000
still criminal conduct. 
There's Title, 18 violations for

763
00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:33,900
materials you building your 
investigation up from there as 

764
00:38:33,900 --> 00:38:37,700
it's warranted. 
Only ever did a couple of title 

765
00:38:37,700 --> 00:38:40,600
3's on the Crim side just 
because you don't always have to

766
00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:43,100
go there. 
Like, that is the most a title 3

767
00:38:43,100 --> 00:38:45,300
wire table is the most 
intrusive. 

768
00:38:46,300 --> 00:38:49,000
Arguably thing that the FBI or 
any law enforcement agency. 

769
00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:52,100
Could do tap your phones and 
listen to everything you say to 

770
00:38:52,100 --> 00:38:53,300
everybody. 
Now, Grant, there's minimization

771
00:38:53,300 --> 00:38:56,700
requirements and Etc. 
But you don't always have to go 

772
00:38:56,700 --> 00:38:58,900
there to build a case. 
There's lots of ways to gather 

773
00:38:58,900 --> 00:39:02,200
evidence of criminal conduct 
that can get you to a successful

774
00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:04,200
prosecution. 
If you are investigating a crime

775
00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:06,600
and it's expensive, it's 
Manpower intensive, it's just 

776
00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:08,900
puts every like once like you 
can only do so many of those a 

777
00:39:08,900 --> 00:39:10,900
year before you're going to 
completely tax, the resource you

778
00:39:10,900 --> 00:39:13,300
have in any office. 
So if you're an RA, like you 

779
00:39:13,300 --> 00:39:16,100
used to run great, it was even 
the stuff you're doing and it 

780
00:39:16,107 --> 00:39:17,800
wasn't just yum. 
And you're looking at Sudan, 

781
00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:20,200
there's about bunch of other 
countries, that sanction 

782
00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:23,200
Nations. 
There's so this is what we talk 

783
00:39:23,207 --> 00:39:25,400
about. 
All I remember sitting in a room

784
00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:30,100
because my years in the Middle 
Eastern Africa and when they 

785
00:39:30,100 --> 00:39:32,700
would ask me, I would go meet 
with President, Al Bashir in 

786
00:39:32,700 --> 00:39:35,500
Sudan and they would ask me 
questions, mark still jander, 

787
00:39:35,500 --> 00:39:38,400
was the next Congressman? 
During your time got caught up 

788
00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:40,100
in that deal and we're spending 
one year, one day. 

789
00:39:40,100 --> 00:39:43,700
Got pardoned by President Trump 
in 2020. so I know about this 

790
00:39:43,700 --> 00:39:49,600
like first hand, so I'm like you
know, because I was there to do 

791
00:39:49,607 --> 00:39:51,600
a good, right? 
So they had me write white 

792
00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:55,400
papers and it's a you know the 
US and the Hague to have 

793
00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:58,600
President Bashir released from 
his icy indictment there was all

794
00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:00,300
sorts of things that we're doing
and when I came back in the 

795
00:40:00,300 --> 00:40:02,600
United States you guys would 
show up in suits. 

796
00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:07,000
To the airport, taking a little 
room asked me, a bunch of 

797
00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:09,100
questions. 
First time, I was like Jetty 

798
00:40:09,100 --> 00:40:10,100
Kathy, like, hey, what are you 
doing? 

799
00:40:10,100 --> 00:40:13,800
And I didn't write the Second 
World on Team America. 

800
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:15,500
Yeah. 
Well America, we're gonna try 

801
00:40:15,500 --> 00:40:18,300
the Daniel Penny syndrome, know 
terrible. 

802
00:40:18,300 --> 00:40:21,700
And then, as I started, you 
know, I spoke at the care or the

803
00:40:21,700 --> 00:40:24,800
what's it called, Muslim 
American society and mass deal. 

804
00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:29,500
Yes, in on December 26th, two 
years in a row and talked about 

805
00:40:29,500 --> 00:40:31,500
reconciliation between Muslims 
and Jews. 

806
00:40:31,500 --> 00:40:34,300
I remember CIA guys that would 
come talk to me and sit down 

807
00:40:34,308 --> 00:40:36,700
with me and the middle of some 
country that I was sitting in 

808
00:40:36,700 --> 00:40:39,100
and just knew right away. 
I was like, okay, so who do you 

809
00:40:39,107 --> 00:40:40,800
work for? 
Because he just walk up to 

810
00:40:40,808 --> 00:40:43,600
somebody and say, okay, you're 
You're an American. 

811
00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:45,700
So you know, when you start 
talking about what happened 

812
00:40:45,700 --> 00:40:48,700
there and material Terrace, I 
feel like the FBI for my 

813
00:40:48,707 --> 00:40:50,500
experience missed. 
The Mark was looking for 

814
00:40:50,500 --> 00:40:55,100
political Targets. 
Not not targets of people that 

815
00:40:55,100 --> 00:40:57,900
were actually doing harm and in 
those areas, and I was there, 

816
00:40:57,900 --> 00:41:00,300
like, I was literally, I had a 
seated at the table at many of 

817
00:41:00,300 --> 00:41:02,900
these deals. 
I talked to people in Syria and,

818
00:41:02,900 --> 00:41:08,600
and Libya and He also Lebanon, 
Saudi Arabia, Bahrain. 

819
00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:11,900
I mean all those countries and I
would go in there with the idea 

820
00:41:11,900 --> 00:41:14,000
of, okay, tell me what the 
problem is, let's work the 

821
00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:17,200
problem and I would walk out and
it would be like, I mean, I came

822
00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:20,200
in from and it's not 
interviewing for me, but We 

823
00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:22,000
should talk about this because 
I'm curious. 

824
00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:24,900
Yeah, because the Richmond 
office is ultimately the office 

825
00:41:24,900 --> 00:41:27,900
that and ended up doing the 
prosecution on Mark Soldier. 

826
00:41:27,900 --> 00:41:32,100
Specifically, I started in 2007.
So prior to you, but continued 

827
00:41:32,100 --> 00:41:36,100
on all the way into 2010 and 
then in 2011 obviously served as

828
00:41:36,100 --> 00:41:38,900
one year one day, right. 
So we ended up being a blessing 

829
00:41:38,900 --> 00:41:42,200
because actually found cancer in
the federal government had to 

830
00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:43,800
pay for his cancer treatment 
which was pretty awesome. 

831
00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:48,100
Yeah. 
So yeah, no, I mean tons of 

832
00:41:48,100 --> 00:41:50,500
conversations to have their my 
blood pressure goes up. 

833
00:41:50,500 --> 00:41:52,700
When we talk about it, you need 
the blood pressure today because

834
00:41:52,700 --> 00:41:55,300
you on death's doorstep last 
night at 1 a.m. and we were 

835
00:41:55,308 --> 00:41:57,600
coming in. 
So I'm gonna make this blanket 

836
00:41:57,600 --> 00:42:00,500
statement. 
So institutionally the bureau 

837
00:42:00,500 --> 00:42:03,200
makes a ton of failures. 
Yeah and I think the bureau 

838
00:42:04,700 --> 00:42:08,100
Didn't like square peg, round 
hole the bureau, consistently as

839
00:42:08,100 --> 00:42:11,900
an organization fails to 
recognize that if Excellence 

840
00:42:11,900 --> 00:42:14,300
exists, it's people at the 
bottom that are doing it. 

841
00:42:14,300 --> 00:42:18,800
Yes, it can hire and has higher.
Excellent people will become 

842
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:20,900
special agents or other 
Specialties within the bureau 

843
00:42:20,900 --> 00:42:22,400
that have done some, excellent 
work. 

844
00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:30,100
But oftentimes it's at Sometimes
they're a factor is at odds with

845
00:42:30,100 --> 00:42:32,500
the bureau because it's such a 
bureaucracy. 

846
00:42:32,500 --> 00:42:34,400
They succeed in spite of the 
bureau. 

847
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:35,600
That's a good way to put it. 
Thank you, Tom. 

848
00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:38,600
So I'll give you a quick 
example. 

849
00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:44,000
So when I was still on the jttf,
I Interviewed a gentleman by the

850
00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:47,300
name of Khalifa haftar. 
Bring a bell for either you guys

851
00:42:47,300 --> 00:42:52,100
that face says it does. 
So he's, he's in charge of 

852
00:42:52,100 --> 00:42:58,600
Eastern Libya at the moment. 
He had been, he had attempted a 

853
00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:03,100
revolution against his former, I
think Academy classmate will 

854
00:43:03,100 --> 00:43:05,800
mark it off. 
He Supported by the CIA. 

855
00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:08,300
But unfortunately his troops 
were slaughtered on the beach 

856
00:43:08,300 --> 00:43:12,000
because could you he was coming.
So this is early 90s. 

857
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:14,000
My history, I'd have to brush up
on his way. 

858
00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:55,000
I almost say like 9 2. 9 3 4. 
He was in wfos territory. 

859
00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:59,600
So I wrote up this huge EC and 
sent them like all the reasons, 

860
00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:03,600
all the things that this guy can
have access to that are all the 

861
00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:05,200
reasons why he should be an FBI 
informant. 

862
00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:08,600
Do you think he got opened? 
Know. 

863
00:44:10,100 --> 00:44:12,300
I didn't get a phone call about 
that guy. 

864
00:44:12,300 --> 00:44:19,300
He was a subject until the most 
recent Libyan Revolution and 

865
00:44:19,300 --> 00:44:25,100
after was Headed over and then 
the FBI was in cleanup mode of, 

866
00:44:25,100 --> 00:44:27,500
you know, scrubbing their 
databases and realizing like I 

867
00:44:27,500 --> 00:44:30,900
had launched this, like 10 
pages, you see that wfos and hey

868
00:44:30,900 --> 00:44:32,200
there's this guy from phenomenal
access. 

869
00:44:32,200 --> 00:44:33,300
You guys should do something 
about it. 

870
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:36,500
So again is that individual fair
and organizational? 

871
00:44:36,500 --> 00:44:40,200
Fair hard to say but my point 
being a failure of the fact that

872
00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:41,400
organizations don't speak to 
each other. 

873
00:44:41,400 --> 00:44:43,500
I mean there's no communication 
between CIA and FBI. 

874
00:44:43,500 --> 00:44:45,800
There's kind of a break there so
there's someone could be working

875
00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:47,400
on one thing with someone's 
working on some totally 

876
00:44:47,400 --> 00:44:48,800
different. 
Yeah, I mean, you do have, you 

877
00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:51,300
know, lx1, right. 
So you have the integration of 

878
00:44:51,300 --> 00:44:57,300
the CIA and the FBI but working 
with the CIA they're an 

879
00:44:57,308 --> 00:45:00,100
interesting group of Americans 
that work in the CIA both as 

880
00:45:00,100 --> 00:45:01,300
individuals and as an 
organization. 

881
00:45:01,300 --> 00:45:04,800
So there is some institutional 
breakdown in Communications 

882
00:45:04,800 --> 00:45:07,100
there between the three letter 
agencies. 

883
00:45:07,100 --> 00:45:09,500
But there's also a bunch of good
people in there just trying to 

884
00:45:09,508 --> 00:45:12,000
get work done. 
And I would imagine that like 

885
00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:14,300
within the bureau where, you 
know, they're working in spite 

886
00:45:14,300 --> 00:45:17,900
of the bureaucracy agency. 
You've got some of that too, 

887
00:45:17,900 --> 00:45:19,700
where they're working in spite 
of the bureaucracy. 

888
00:45:19,700 --> 00:45:22,500
So getting back to my career 
path. 

889
00:45:22,500 --> 00:45:24,600
If you if you let me take a 
quick break to it, we're going 

890
00:45:24,607 --> 00:45:26,700
to get into your criminal work. 
When you transition over on that

891
00:45:26,700 --> 00:45:29,000
side before we do it. 
Let's throw up the logo for my 

892
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:32,300
friends over at Patriot coolers 
if you would Mr. Apollo Um, 

893
00:45:32,300 --> 00:45:34,300
Patriot coolers folks, they have
been the longest sponsor, the 

894
00:45:34,300 --> 00:45:35,700
Kyle, sheriff and shows. 
We really appreciate them. 

895
00:45:35,700 --> 00:45:39,300
Always keeping us on the air, 
it's Patriot coolers.com, the 

896
00:45:39,300 --> 00:45:42,300
promo code is Kyla. 
I've actually got something I 

897
00:45:42,300 --> 00:45:44,600
brought with me. 
It's a brand new Patriot cooler 

898
00:45:44,600 --> 00:45:46,300
for you Zack. 
It's got our badge on it. 

899
00:45:46,300 --> 00:45:50,200
That one is yours and things. 
That's the 20 oz you guys have 

900
00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:51,300
seen. 
I've been sitting my coffee out 

901
00:45:51,300 --> 00:45:53,300
of this. 
This is, they're great products.

902
00:45:53,300 --> 00:45:54,200
I've been using them. 
Seriously. 

903
00:45:54,200 --> 00:45:56,000
I've been using them since I was
on duty, as a surveillance guy, 

904
00:45:56,000 --> 00:45:57,100
it's the one, two things you 
need. 

905
00:45:57,100 --> 00:45:59,900
You need a pee bottle and you 
need a cup of coffee and you can

906
00:45:59,908 --> 00:46:01,600
sit indefinitely and watch bad, 
guys. 

907
00:46:01,600 --> 00:46:03,200
You don't need binoculars. 
You don't need cameras. 

908
00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:05,100
You don't even need a radio. 
You mix those bottles up. 

909
00:46:05,100 --> 00:46:08,300
You try not to make the bottles 
up, that he gave that to me 

910
00:46:08,300 --> 00:46:10,000
first and took it back and said,
give it to you. 

911
00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:15,600
This is so this is not working. 
And guys, if you want to go and 

912
00:46:15,600 --> 00:46:17,100
check out, there's the Kyle 
seraphin collection. 

913
00:46:17,100 --> 00:46:18,300
You can find it in any of our 
show notes. 

914
00:46:18,300 --> 00:46:20,000
They're always out there. 
It's the Kyle's favorite show 

915
00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:21,200
collection, which is just badges
like this. 

916
00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:24,500
You go get yourself engraved. 
It's the Gerald boils would have

917
00:46:24,500 --> 00:46:27,800
collection of all the different 
suspendable logos, whether you 

918
00:46:27,808 --> 00:46:30,000
want the rifle or you want the 
upside down flag and so on. 

919
00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:31,700
And you know, maybe we can turn 
that flag, right? 

920
00:46:31,900 --> 00:46:34,100
Side up maybe that badge can go 
right set up pretty soon we hope

921
00:46:34,100 --> 00:46:35,800
but in any case that's where you
guys find it. 

922
00:46:35,800 --> 00:46:39,000
So thanks so much for them. 
All right, criminal move when 

923
00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:40,000
did that happen? 
What year? 

924
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:47,500
Proximately 2011, okay. 
For sure. 

925
00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:49,900
Did you change offices or you 
just changed? 

926
00:46:49,900 --> 00:46:52,000
Well, I just went from the third
floor to the second floor. 

927
00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:55,900
So this and this is predating 
when they before they skipped 

928
00:46:55,900 --> 00:46:59,200
all of the jtts. 
So when I first threw on my hdf,

929
00:46:59,200 --> 00:47:00,700
it was not in a skip for those. 
Don't know. 

930
00:47:00,707 --> 00:47:02,800
That's a sensitive compartmental
information, facility. 

931
00:47:02,800 --> 00:47:08,000
So, the entire FBI building is 
Open storage top secret, but 

932
00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:13,200
it's not top secret SCI. 
Molars Direction was I want all 

933
00:47:13,200 --> 00:47:17,200
the jttf to be Skiffs in 
argument being so that we could 

934
00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:20,300
more easily exchange information
with our other three letter 

935
00:47:20,300 --> 00:47:24,400
agencies. 
In reality, we had a skiff off 

936
00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:25,500
of that, like we had smaller 
gifts. 

937
00:47:25,500 --> 00:47:30,000
I think, the unfortunate reality
of that decision was where 

938
00:47:30,000 --> 00:47:34,100
they're, you know, the bureau 
was faulted and 9/11 for not 

939
00:47:34,100 --> 00:47:35,600
sharing information within 
itself. 

940
00:47:36,500 --> 00:47:40,100
When we didn't have actual 
walls, then we turn around and 

941
00:47:40,100 --> 00:47:43,000
built actual walls in between 
our criminal and National 

942
00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:43,900
Security. 
Squads. 

943
00:47:43,900 --> 00:47:48,800
And that by just general nature 
mpes, the good flow of 

944
00:47:48,808 --> 00:47:50,900
communication within the FBI. 
All right. 

945
00:47:50,908 --> 00:47:53,000
So that aside. 
So I moved just, you know, 

946
00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:55,400
downstairs on the criminal 
Squad, we had a safe streets, 

947
00:47:55,400 --> 00:48:00,500
game unit task force. 
So I became a member of First 

948
00:48:00,500 --> 00:48:03,700
base we were they were working 
at G shine Bloods case so I 

949
00:48:03,707 --> 00:48:08,400
joined that subsequent to that 
was a nine. 

950
00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:10,400
Trey what's case with title? 
3's on that? 

951
00:48:10,408 --> 00:48:14,100
Had a great time, I'm just a lot
of fun so a lot of surveillance 

952
00:48:14,100 --> 00:48:17,800
a lot of go ahead, go, was that 
the kind of work you thought you

953
00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:18,900
were going to do when you 
entered the FBI? 

954
00:48:18,900 --> 00:48:23,500
I mean, I'll be honest, I mean I
think going into the FBI I had a

955
00:48:23,500 --> 00:48:25,000
ton of ignorance is what I was 
getting into. 

956
00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:28,500
It just looked awesome. 
It looked exciting, it looked 

957
00:48:28,500 --> 00:48:32,600
like a challenge, it looked like
I can make impactful decisions 

958
00:48:32,600 --> 00:48:35,200
there. 
And I was right. 

959
00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:38,100
I had a phenomenal time in 
Richmond division, as a street 

960
00:48:38,100 --> 00:48:45,000
agent. 
You know, I had never met an FBI

961
00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:47,800
agent when I applied. 
So, when I went through the 

962
00:48:47,800 --> 00:48:49,300
process, right? 
You were very much. 

963
00:48:49,300 --> 00:48:51,700
You don't get to see behind the 
curtain when you're going 

964
00:48:51,700 --> 00:48:53,600
through the application process 
to become a new agent. 

965
00:48:53,600 --> 00:48:56,400
So, when I was handed my 
conditional letter of 

966
00:48:56,400 --> 00:49:01,600
appointment, July of 2008. 
I asked the non-agent recruiter 

967
00:49:01,600 --> 00:49:04,100
out of sale television, if I 
could finally meet an FBI agent 

968
00:49:04,100 --> 00:49:08,800
and yes, I went had coffee with 
a gentleman, who was in the gtf 

969
00:49:08,800 --> 00:49:11,900
there in Spokane and he was 
like, came in it, you know, 

970
00:49:11,900 --> 00:49:13,800
we're not perfect. 
But with there's some great 

971
00:49:13,800 --> 00:49:16,000
things behind the curtain, 
you're gonna have a great time. 

972
00:49:16,800 --> 00:49:20,400
Um, filled me some confidence. 
The only other Focus I'd ever 

973
00:49:20,400 --> 00:49:24,000
worked with in Iraq, on my last 
deployment, they were retired 

974
00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:28,300
FBI agents over there on 
contract that were in theory. 

975
00:49:28,300 --> 00:49:29,500
They were supposed to be 
training. 

976
00:49:31,600 --> 00:49:35,100
Brigade combat teams on how to 
take kind of a criminal 

977
00:49:35,100 --> 00:49:37,400
investigative perspective 
towards some of the threats. 

978
00:49:37,400 --> 00:49:40,600
So like obviously IDs at the 
time in 2007, 2008 were 

979
00:49:41,500 --> 00:49:44,200
literally popping. 
Which is why I was over there 

980
00:49:44,200 --> 00:49:46,800
for a task force. 
Troy was kind of idea, so these 

981
00:49:46,800 --> 00:49:47,800
guys were over to say like, all 
right. 

982
00:49:47,808 --> 00:49:50,100
Well, if you have an explosion, 
let's let's work it backwards 

983
00:49:50,100 --> 00:49:51,600
like a crime scene. 
That was a concept. 

984
00:49:51,600 --> 00:49:54,700
So I met a couple of those guys 
and you know, they had, you 

985
00:49:54,700 --> 00:49:57,400
know, told me some more stories 
about it, but beer, all the 

986
00:49:57,400 --> 00:49:59,000
other one that I didn't know 
what I was getting into, sure, 

987
00:50:00,300 --> 00:50:04,500
Fun Factor went way up. 
When I Went down to the criminal

988
00:50:04,500 --> 00:50:06,200
Squad. 
So, for folks wearing this like,

989
00:50:06,200 --> 00:50:07,800
when you get to the crimes 
stuff, that's what people always

990
00:50:07,800 --> 00:50:10,500
call the running and gunning. 
Like, actually doing the FBI 

991
00:50:10,500 --> 00:50:13,600
works because transactional 
business national security 

992
00:50:13,600 --> 00:50:15,500
stuff, would you agree that it's
kind of like long-term 

993
00:50:15,500 --> 00:50:18,500
investigations, but when you 
start getting into criminal 

994
00:50:18,500 --> 00:50:20,700
stuff, it's fast-paced. 
It's transactional business. 

995
00:50:20,700 --> 00:50:22,900
It's like low level guys, 
grabbing them up working your 

996
00:50:22,900 --> 00:50:25,100
way up, that kind of thing. 
Yeah, and I still, I mean, you 

997
00:50:25,100 --> 00:50:26,600
know, safe from skating in a 
task force. 

998
00:50:26,600 --> 00:50:28,800
And so when we work and talk 
West, which would be 

999
00:50:28,808 --> 00:50:31,100
transnational organized crime, 
Western Hemisphere. 

1000
00:50:31,100 --> 00:50:33,800
So think, drugs got to put an 
acronym to everything. 

1001
00:50:34,800 --> 00:50:36,400
Talk West. 
Sounds less cool than drugs 

1002
00:50:36,400 --> 00:50:37,700
though. 
Obviously. 

1003
00:50:37,700 --> 00:50:44,300
So I still worked long term 
Enterprise but it's just you're 

1004
00:50:44,300 --> 00:50:47,000
no longer proving the negative. 
You are building up for the 

1005
00:50:47,000 --> 00:50:49,200
positive. 
I wouldn't open a case unless I 

1006
00:50:49,200 --> 00:50:51,700
was like I know I can get to the
end result. 

1007
00:50:53,100 --> 00:50:57,200
I only have one criminal case of
talk West Case into a Narcotics 

1008
00:50:57,200 --> 00:50:58,900
trafficker that I never could 
get there. 

1009
00:50:58,900 --> 00:51:02,700
He was so wildly and he was 
never had any real patterns when

1010
00:51:02,700 --> 00:51:05,000
he was on or off as far as like 
when he had a supply when he 

1011
00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:08,300
didn't. 
It never really got there. 

1012
00:51:08,300 --> 00:51:10,900
You know, we got him with some 
low level State charges for 

1013
00:51:10,900 --> 00:51:14,100
drugs but I never really could 
get a good Federal and I 

1014
00:51:14,100 --> 00:51:16,500
couldn't collect enough evidence
for otherwise, everything I 

1015
00:51:16,500 --> 00:51:20,600
investigated became a federal 
nightmare in one way shape of 

1016
00:51:20,600 --> 00:51:22,100
the other. 
We're on National Security side.

1017
00:51:22,100 --> 00:51:24,500
Again, you've proven the 
negative, the vast majority of a

1018
00:51:24,500 --> 00:51:27,600
terrorism cases, particularly on
the international terrorism side

1019
00:51:27,600 --> 00:51:32,000
or you investigate you gather 
enough evidence to say not a 

1020
00:51:32,000 --> 00:51:34,800
terrorist we can know close. 
Can you an idea of time frame 

1021
00:51:34,800 --> 00:51:38,000
how long, an average TV Chase, 
might be open versus a criminal 

1022
00:51:38,000 --> 00:51:40,500
case. 
It was so a lot of variants 

1023
00:51:40,500 --> 00:51:42,100
there. 
So on the counter terrorism, 

1024
00:51:42,100 --> 00:51:46,700
International terrorism cases. 
You know, if it's a pi so a 

1025
00:51:46,700 --> 00:51:49,500
preliminary investigation, it 
can only be open for six months 

1026
00:51:49,500 --> 00:51:51,800
and it can be extended once for 
another six months. 

1027
00:51:51,800 --> 00:51:55,300
So it maximum at that, Level 
that can only go for a year if 

1028
00:51:55,300 --> 00:51:59,900
it becomes a full investigation 
then it can somewhat go on 

1029
00:51:59,900 --> 00:52:03,600
indefinitely. 
But again the bureaus concern on

1030
00:52:03,600 --> 00:52:08,000
that is always liability and 
then the numbers is this case 

1031
00:52:08,000 --> 00:52:11,800
going to bite Us in the ass. 
If this person turns out to be a

1032
00:52:11,800 --> 00:52:14,900
terrorist, we haven't done 
anything about it and then is 

1033
00:52:14,900 --> 00:52:19,200
this case, generating numbers 
that we're going to go towards 

1034
00:52:19,200 --> 00:52:21,700
the Matrix of whether or not 
we're being successful as a 

1035
00:52:21,707 --> 00:52:24,900
division or not. 
So some of those cases can go on

1036
00:52:24,900 --> 00:52:29,500
easily for years on the criminal
side, it really depends on what 

1037
00:52:29,508 --> 00:52:31,500
you work. 
If you're working a violent 

1038
00:52:31,500 --> 00:52:34,400
crime Squad and you're doing 
bank robberies, Hobbs act, 

1039
00:52:34,400 --> 00:52:39,300
robberies Etc, then those can be
short-lived, couple months, you 

1040
00:52:39,300 --> 00:52:41,800
know, six months Federal 
indictment and moving on with 

1041
00:52:41,800 --> 00:52:44,100
it. 
If you're working gangs then 

1042
00:52:44,100 --> 00:52:46,500
it's usually a slower build-up. 
You're taking some guys off, 

1043
00:52:46,500 --> 00:52:48,600
along the way, you might be 
getting State charges on them, 

1044
00:52:48,600 --> 00:52:51,400
to flip them as informants 
leverage, leverage, leverage, 

1045
00:52:51,400 --> 00:52:55,100
and then you're going to build 
up to either just a big 

1046
00:52:55,107 --> 00:52:58,400
conspiracy charge, maybe a 
racketeering charge, Etc, to get

1047
00:52:58,400 --> 00:53:02,300
into something public crops in 
cases can take a while White 

1048
00:53:02,300 --> 00:53:04,700
Collar cases. 
So think like bank fraud, wire 

1049
00:53:04,700 --> 00:53:09,500
fraud typically can take a while
Probably the quickest turn ones 

1050
00:53:09,500 --> 00:53:13,100
would be. 
Child pronography 

1051
00:53:13,100 --> 00:53:18,000
investigations. 
So see Sam cases so child sexual

1052
00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:20,700
abuse material cases. 
I think is the most publicly, 

1053
00:53:20,700 --> 00:53:23,800
correct or politically correct 
term at the moment for a job 

1054
00:53:23,800 --> 00:53:25,100
board. 
I personally think you guys just

1055
00:53:25,100 --> 00:53:27,100
carry chains in the car. 
So when you pick them up, you 

1056
00:53:27,100 --> 00:53:30,200
just put them in the back tie. 
A little thing around them and 

1057
00:53:30,200 --> 00:53:32,900
drag them to the sorry. 
Take him to the Marshall. 

1058
00:53:32,900 --> 00:53:35,900
That's right. 
It takes literally, I'm from, 

1059
00:53:35,900 --> 00:53:39,400
I'm from Montana and then I said
my last, you know, you just 

1060
00:53:39,400 --> 00:53:42,000
Asian was was Idaho. 
So there's still that, you know,

1061
00:53:42,000 --> 00:53:45,500
old west mentality out there of 
like we've got posts in front of

1062
00:53:45,500 --> 00:53:47,300
the courthouse, like, we can get
this done real fast. 

1063
00:53:47,300 --> 00:53:51,500
I just think you waste money on 
someone, that's just a deviant. 

1064
00:53:51,500 --> 00:53:52,600
Sure. 
Yeah. 

1065
00:53:52,600 --> 00:53:55,000
And I'm no longer a proponent of
the death penalty because of the

1066
00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:56,800
money we spend on that and 
that's a whole different 

1067
00:53:56,800 --> 00:53:58,400
sidebar. 
We don't need to get into right 

1068
00:53:58,400 --> 00:54:01,100
now. 
All right, so time for Weis on 

1069
00:54:01,100 --> 00:54:03,200
sea Sam's. 
So child sexual, abuse material 

1070
00:54:03,200 --> 00:54:06,200
cases, those typically will turn
for early quick, so whether 

1071
00:54:06,200 --> 00:54:10,000
you're getting a Nick, Mick hit 
on that or wherever you are, 

1072
00:54:10,000 --> 00:54:14,400
quote, leave is coming. 
From that, hey, person X has 

1073
00:54:14,400 --> 00:54:19,300
exchanged or is in possession of
child pronography, or they're 

1074
00:54:19,300 --> 00:54:21,800
eliciting. 
Child, pronography from a child 

1075
00:54:21,800 --> 00:54:24,900
or an undercover that is posing 
as a child online. 

1076
00:54:24,900 --> 00:54:29,100
Those cases move fast because 
it's They're fairly simple. 

1077
00:54:29,100 --> 00:54:31,600
It's either they have that 
material, right? 

1078
00:54:31,600 --> 00:54:35,000
And it's been validated as 
c-sam. 

1079
00:54:35,700 --> 00:54:37,500
Or they don't. 
And so like you're going to get 

1080
00:54:37,508 --> 00:54:39,800
an IP address, you're going to 
have files that have been 

1081
00:54:39,800 --> 00:54:41,200
exchanged. 
It's already been validators. 

1082
00:54:41,200 --> 00:54:43,400
Like those are images that have 
been processed through here. 

1083
00:54:43,400 --> 00:54:45,300
We know those are child, 
pronography images. 

1084
00:54:45,300 --> 00:54:46,700
We're going to get a search 
warrant. 

1085
00:54:46,700 --> 00:54:50,600
We're gonna probably get a 
confession and then indictment 

1086
00:54:50,600 --> 00:54:53,500
and move on. 
So there's a broad swath, Kyle 

1087
00:54:53,500 --> 00:54:56,300
for the, you know, some can turn
in a couple of months, but 

1088
00:54:56,300 --> 00:55:00,600
Bureau is known for long perm, 
investigations, almost at times 

1089
00:55:00,600 --> 00:55:04,800
to our detriment, right? 
Sure, sometimes Decidedly too 

1090
00:55:04,800 --> 00:55:07,000
slow because the crime's are 
still happening. 

1091
00:55:07,000 --> 00:55:09,300
You that local law enforcement, 
you got local prosecutors, my 

1092
00:55:09,300 --> 00:55:14,400
wife is a local prosecutor. 
You know, I I really feel for 

1093
00:55:14,400 --> 00:55:16,600
them because, you know, trying 
to get a federal prosecutor to 

1094
00:55:16,607 --> 00:55:19,400
commit to we're going to take 
this at the end of this chain is

1095
00:55:19,400 --> 00:55:25,300
that definitely that well and 
the other thing I always try to 

1096
00:55:25,308 --> 00:55:27,100
get people to understand because
I think it's not common. 

1097
00:55:27,100 --> 00:55:29,200
If you're not in that space it's
actually if you're used to law 

1098
00:55:29,200 --> 00:55:31,200
enforcement and you don't know 
the intelligence side of it or 

1099
00:55:31,200 --> 00:55:35,700
the CI, the CT side That those 
National Security cases tend to 

1100
00:55:35,700 --> 00:55:38,700
be very circular, they're 
continually spinning, they're 

1101
00:55:38,700 --> 00:55:39,900
continually putting out more 
leads. 

1102
00:55:39,900 --> 00:55:42,300
They're continually grabbing 
more subjects, building the 

1103
00:55:42,300 --> 00:55:45,000
network, a lot more information 
based whereas criminal 

1104
00:55:45,000 --> 00:55:47,400
prosecutions are always linear, 
it's like a federal crime 

1105
00:55:47,400 --> 00:55:48,800
happened. 
We're going to find that people 

1106
00:55:48,808 --> 00:55:50,400
who did it. 
We're going to go gather the 

1107
00:55:50,400 --> 00:55:52,400
evidence and then we're moving 
towards indictment, which is 

1108
00:55:52,400 --> 00:55:54,600
really it takes it into the, you
know, out of our hands. 

1109
00:55:54,600 --> 00:55:56,200
Now, it's going to be the 
prosecutor thing. 

1110
00:55:56,200 --> 00:55:59,000
So they can be a lot faster 
because there's actually a 

1111
00:55:59,000 --> 00:56:01,100
destination and that's not 
always the case if you're trying

1112
00:56:01,107 --> 00:56:04,100
to prove the negative, it's all.
So from a human being 

1113
00:56:04,100 --> 00:56:06,200
standpoint, it's just a lot more
rewarding because you're getting

1114
00:56:06,200 --> 00:56:09,300
to a point of success. 
Whereas on the, it side, your 

1115
00:56:09,300 --> 00:56:12,900
success in prosecution is rare. 
Greater successes. 

1116
00:56:12,900 --> 00:56:14,600
Well, all right. 
So this guy wasn't a terrorist. 

1117
00:56:14,600 --> 00:56:17,000
So I turned he or she into an 
informant, right? 

1118
00:56:17,000 --> 00:56:20,300
Or you found child pronography, 
which we had a we hit a w. 

1119
00:56:20,300 --> 00:56:32,000
Okay. 
And in the 23rd year, they 

1120
00:56:32,000 --> 00:56:33,600
found, you know, see Sam on his 
computer. 

1121
00:56:33,600 --> 00:56:35,400
So they ended up getting him for
that. 

1122
00:56:35,408 --> 00:56:38,700
But even under operation for two
and a half decades, It seems 

1123
00:56:38,700 --> 00:56:40,700
problematic for a lot of people 
that are looking at. 

1124
00:56:40,700 --> 00:56:42,700
It's like well, if you look at 
anybody long enough, you're 

1125
00:56:42,700 --> 00:56:45,300
eventually maybe gonna find it. 
Probably not child pronography 

1126
00:56:45,300 --> 00:56:47,400
but jaywalk good. 
Yeah, they will eventually find 

1127
00:56:47,400 --> 00:56:49,900
something they're wrong. 
So anyway, it's just I like to 

1128
00:56:49,900 --> 00:56:53,000
give people as much perspective 
about this is a nuanced problem.

1129
00:56:53,000 --> 00:56:55,400
This is not like a, oh, shut it 
all down today. 

1130
00:56:55,400 --> 00:56:59,800
This is not like, oh, everything
that gets done, is bad because I

1131
00:56:59,808 --> 00:57:02,000
guarantee, you know, people that
do good work. 

1132
00:57:02,000 --> 00:57:03,700
They're doing it today, I do as 
well. 

1133
00:57:04,700 --> 00:57:07,400
So I keep I keep moderating on 
this when I start thinking about

1134
00:57:07,400 --> 00:57:09,400
some of the things that it does.
Well, maybe it's part of the 

1135
00:57:09,400 --> 00:57:11,000
bureau itself. 
I think that's a very strong 

1136
00:57:11,000 --> 00:57:12,800
point. 
I've brought that up in my own 

1137
00:57:12,800 --> 00:57:15,600
words a couple times, right? 
Because at the moment there's, 

1138
00:57:15,600 --> 00:57:17,800
you know, if you watch the Sean 
Ryan show or something like 

1139
00:57:17,800 --> 00:57:21,200
that, there's there's 
perceivably some credible 

1140
00:57:21,200 --> 00:57:25,400
intelligence that there is 
Homeland threat again, within 

1141
00:57:25,400 --> 00:57:27,300
the country that there are Bad 
actors in the country. 

1142
00:57:27,300 --> 00:57:30,500
You know, that have come across 
the border or legally or 

1143
00:57:30,500 --> 00:57:34,400
illegally that are planning to 
conduct some kind of attack. 

1144
00:57:35,800 --> 00:57:39,200
terrorism by its very nature, is
political Terrorism bites, very 

1145
00:57:39,200 --> 00:57:41,700
nature builds upon fear. 
So it's alright. 

1146
00:57:41,700 --> 00:57:44,900
It is using fear to attain a 
political objective. 

1147
00:57:47,600 --> 00:57:51,100
It is going to be important for 
the FBI to look for that the 

1148
00:57:51,100 --> 00:57:53,700
American citizens, want the FBI 
to look for that. 

1149
00:57:53,700 --> 00:57:57,200
But my word of caution. 
I think this is what ties into 

1150
00:57:57,200 --> 00:58:02,600
the new ones of your comment. 
Kyle is American politicians, as

1151
00:58:02,600 --> 00:58:05,400
representatives of our of us of 
the citizenry. 

1152
00:58:06,200 --> 00:58:11,700
Need to realize that if they go 
to DEFCON 5 of like we have to 

1153
00:58:11,700 --> 00:58:14,100
find terrorism FBI, you have to 
find terrorism. 

1154
00:58:14,100 --> 00:58:16,700
Then well-meaning, agents are 
going to respond to that 

1155
00:58:16,700 --> 00:58:20,800
pressure and non well-meaning 
bureaucrats within the agency, 

1156
00:58:20,800 --> 00:58:23,000
are going to respond to that 
pressure with. 

1157
00:58:23,700 --> 00:58:27,200
Setting the Constitution aside 
and going after people. 

1158
00:58:27,200 --> 00:58:29,400
So what happens when that 
happens at the highest levels, 

1159
00:58:29,400 --> 00:58:32,400
which is, I think what people 
are pushing to right now and 

1160
00:58:32,400 --> 00:58:35,400
which is ultimately, would lead 
you to you leaving the FBI. 

1161
00:58:36,500 --> 00:58:41,200
I was asked to leave, but 
anyway, that side, but yes, I am

1162
00:58:41,200 --> 00:58:43,800
very much. 
So, but because you had to, you 

1163
00:58:43,800 --> 00:58:45,000
had a decision to make. 
Yeah. 

1164
00:58:45,000 --> 00:58:49,000
Yes. 
There are a lot of inherent 

1165
00:58:49,000 --> 00:58:53,800
dangers of politicizing our 
response to the threat of 

1166
00:58:53,800 --> 00:58:58,000
terrorism in this country. 
American citizens need to be 

1167
00:58:58,008 --> 00:59:01,600
very cognizant of what their 
empowering, right? 

1168
00:59:01,600 --> 00:59:03,300
Because we empower the federal 
government, what we're 

1169
00:59:03,300 --> 00:59:04,900
empowering a federal government 
to do. 

1170
00:59:06,000 --> 00:59:09,400
We do not want to lose our 
values as a constitutional 

1171
00:59:09,400 --> 00:59:12,900
republic where we as Citizens 
Empower our government to do 

1172
00:59:12,900 --> 00:59:17,000
certain things on our behalf 
that we throw out those 

1173
00:59:17,000 --> 00:59:19,900
constitutional values in search 
of terrorism. 

1174
00:59:19,900 --> 00:59:25,800
Yes, the FBI and sister agencies
need to reasonably investigate 

1175
00:59:26,500 --> 00:59:29,000
Threats of terrorism, need to 
reasonably. 

1176
00:59:29,000 --> 00:59:33,700
Try to prevent acts of terrorism
but trying to be left of the 

1177
00:59:33,707 --> 00:59:37,500
Boom. 
Based on intelligence is 

1178
00:59:37,500 --> 00:59:41,000
extremely difficult. 
Don't throw the baby out with 

1179
00:59:41,000 --> 00:59:43,800
the bathwater but I that I mean 
don't throw the Constitution out

1180
00:59:43,800 --> 00:59:45,900
in our attempts to find 
terrorism. 

1181
00:59:45,900 --> 00:59:50,400
So that is my for your audience.
That is my words of caution. 

1182
00:59:50,400 --> 00:59:56,000
When we're Legitimately fearful 
of another Act of terrorism 

1183
00:59:56,000 --> 01:00:00,400
within the United States. 
We, if we want to be a free 

1184
01:00:00,400 --> 01:00:03,700
country, we have to accept some 
amount of risk, right? 

1185
01:00:03,700 --> 01:00:08,300
Whether that's risk of being 
offended or risk of, you know, 

1186
01:00:08,300 --> 01:00:11,500
an active shooter or risk of a 
terrorism attack, there has to 

1187
01:00:11,508 --> 01:00:14,500
be some kind of balance if you 
swing the pendulum too far. 

1188
01:00:14,500 --> 01:00:17,000
Like I think we've seen both on 
the international terrorism side

1189
01:00:17,000 --> 01:00:21,500
and the domestic terrorism side.
You're going to you're going to 

1190
01:00:21,500 --> 01:00:26,800
have abuses by law enforcement 
in agencies like the FBI some by

1191
01:00:26,800 --> 01:00:29,200
very well intentioned agents 
trying to just get out there and

1192
01:00:29,200 --> 01:00:32,800
get it done some by not so. 
Well, intentioned managers 

1193
01:00:32,800 --> 01:00:35,700
within the FBI that are simply 
just trying to respond to the 

1194
01:00:35,700 --> 01:00:39,100
Matrix of exact you just open 
this case. 

1195
01:00:39,100 --> 01:00:41,500
Give me a Facebook. 
You see what I'm saying? 

1196
01:00:41,500 --> 01:00:45,000
All right. 
So I moved to Criminal. 

1197
01:00:46,300 --> 01:00:48,400
More G shine, Bloods. 
Work, nine, trade, Bloods. 

1198
01:00:48,400 --> 01:00:50,900
I had some quote unquote. 
Talk West cases. 

1199
01:00:50,900 --> 01:00:55,400
I was asked to join the DEA task
force. 

1200
01:00:55,400 --> 01:00:58,800
So Dia Richmond, is a satellite 
office from the Washington 

1201
01:00:58,800 --> 01:01:01,000
field. 
They have three squads there. 

1202
01:01:01,000 --> 01:01:03,300
They have a high school. 
They have an all agent task 

1203
01:01:03,300 --> 01:01:07,000
force and they have a mixed task
force mixed task forces, DEA 

1204
01:01:07,000 --> 01:01:09,000
agents. 
And then, you know, Task Force 

1205
01:01:09,000 --> 01:01:10,900
officers from state and local 
and other feds. 

1206
01:01:10,900 --> 01:01:14,900
So, I was asked me the first FBI
agent to be on their task force 

1207
01:01:14,900 --> 01:01:16,000
on 20 years or something like 
that. 

1208
01:01:16,000 --> 01:01:20,100
And had an absolute blast and 
extremely high performing task 

1209
01:01:20,100 --> 01:01:22,700
force. 
I had some of the best cops I 

1210
01:01:22,707 --> 01:01:28,000
have ever seen tfo's with me. 
And it was usually a couple of 

1211
01:01:28,000 --> 01:01:29,300
search warrants restaurant a 
week. 

1212
01:01:29,308 --> 01:01:33,200
I did more. 
Search warrants and arrest 

1213
01:01:33,200 --> 01:01:37,400
warrants with my Daya group. 
Then I did was swap, so I joined

1214
01:01:37,400 --> 01:01:39,800
SWAT. 
I was fortunate enough to be 

1215
01:01:39,808 --> 01:01:43,000
asked to join SWAT or try out 
for SWAT within a couple months 

1216
01:01:43,000 --> 01:01:46,700
of landing at Richmond. 
I was a pretty reasonable 

1217
01:01:46,700 --> 01:01:48,900
shooter. 
They saw me, shoot, I had some 

1218
01:01:48,900 --> 01:01:52,100
military experience and 
honestly, they were they needed 

1219
01:01:52,100 --> 01:01:54,500
people, they saw that, you were 
seven two and you probably could

1220
01:01:54,500 --> 01:01:55,500
carry. 
They saw that. 

1221
01:01:55,500 --> 01:01:59,100
I was five foot seven and 
they're like, we could, we could

1222
01:01:59,100 --> 01:02:03,800
put, we could use this guy. 
So I really enjoyed being on the

1223
01:02:03,800 --> 01:02:04,900
spot. 
It was a savior for me. 

1224
01:02:04,908 --> 01:02:07,300
When I was the gtf, when I was 
like, I don't know if I made the

1225
01:02:07,300 --> 01:02:10,700
right choice, leaving the beer, 
even DOD, we're still in all 

1226
01:02:10,700 --> 01:02:13,700
these hot Wars over here on 
twiddle in my thumbs. 

1227
01:02:13,700 --> 01:02:16,200
You know, going into prisons. 
And talking to these guys about 

1228
01:02:16,200 --> 01:02:17,600
like, what books, they're 
reading, Etc. 

1229
01:02:17,600 --> 01:02:21,200
Being on the SWAT team being 
with some of the highest 

1230
01:02:21,200 --> 01:02:25,000
performers in the division. 
And you know, spending three to 

1231
01:02:25,000 --> 01:02:28,400
four days a month doing shooting
and seeking B and you know, 

1232
01:02:28,400 --> 01:02:31,800
surveillance training and so 
forth was was very rewarding for

1233
01:02:31,800 --> 01:02:34,400
me and it kept me motivated. 
When I switched over to 

1234
01:02:34,408 --> 01:02:35,800
criminal, then I had a whole 
bunch of things. 

1235
01:02:35,800 --> 01:02:38,500
Keeping me motivated. 
Okay, says, I had the other game

1236
01:02:38,500 --> 01:02:41,500
cases on my squad. 
I had Diaz cases and then 

1237
01:02:41,500 --> 01:02:45,100
eventually, I also became a part
of Virginia state police's, 

1238
01:02:45,900 --> 01:02:47,300
Countering our products, task 
force. 

1239
01:02:47,300 --> 01:02:50,200
One of my last cases that I 
worked there with, which was 

1240
01:02:50,200 --> 01:02:54,100
again, just to talk West case of
Cocaine and heroin, we don't 

1241
01:02:54,107 --> 01:02:55,600
really deal with meth in 
Richmond back in those days. 

1242
01:02:55,600 --> 01:02:58,000
It was all cocaine, crack 
cocaine, and heroin. 

1243
01:02:58,000 --> 01:03:02,100
Did you guys deal with PCP? 
The way that we saw it up in DC 

1244
01:03:02,100 --> 01:03:05,400
know, but we went up, so you had
some of that bleed over into 

1245
01:03:05,400 --> 01:03:07,500
Winchester. 
So Winchester, you know, that 

1246
01:03:07,500 --> 01:03:09,800
the city of Winchester and the 
territory around it falls to 

1247
01:03:09,800 --> 01:03:11,800
Richmond division. 
So you had some of that PCP and 

1248
01:03:11,808 --> 01:03:13,900
stuff that was coming out of DC 
and was Landing there. 

1249
01:03:13,900 --> 01:03:17,800
So, not my investigative cases, 
but SWAT team would go up there.

1250
01:03:17,800 --> 01:03:22,900
Oh, Some of those you're born in
Winchester. 

1251
01:03:22,900 --> 01:03:24,800
Yeah interesting. 
Yeah I don't know. 

1252
01:03:24,800 --> 01:03:31,300
Um by accident is an accidental 
birth, it wasn't on purpose. 

1253
01:03:31,300 --> 01:03:33,300
God meant you to be born. 
There, what are you talking 

1254
01:03:33,300 --> 01:03:34,100
about this crazy? 
Yeah. 

1255
01:03:34,100 --> 01:03:38,600
Right. 
You know what I would rather 

1256
01:03:38,600 --> 01:03:40,900
live in Winchester in DC? 
I don't live there. 

1257
01:03:40,900 --> 01:03:46,100
Yeah. 100 times out of 100. 
Yes, way better like even with 

1258
01:03:46,100 --> 01:03:47,900
PCP there I would still rather 
be around. 

1259
01:03:47,900 --> 01:03:51,600
I'd rather have PCP trucked in 
from DC and live in Winchester. 

1260
01:03:51,600 --> 01:03:54,500
Then being DC and deal with 
whatever's there which is awful.

1261
01:03:54,500 --> 01:03:57,700
Sure but again I can't 
highlight. 

1262
01:03:57,700 --> 01:04:00,800
That is is ugly. 
Is my divorce was from the 

1263
01:04:00,800 --> 01:04:04,300
bureau. 
I had a phenomenal time as a 

1264
01:04:04,300 --> 01:04:06,900
street agent in Richmond. 
I will call it on a horse. 

1265
01:04:06,900 --> 01:04:08,900
It's funny. 
I refer to as being an 

1266
01:04:08,900 --> 01:04:12,700
ex-girlfriend there is A 
relationship there firing. 

1267
01:04:12,700 --> 01:04:16,300
Yeah, well I technically they 
consider me a resignation 

1268
01:04:16,300 --> 01:04:19,100
actually the lawsuit that we 
have is about whether or not 

1269
01:04:19,107 --> 01:04:21,300
they actually constructively 
terminated me which is the 

1270
01:04:21,300 --> 01:04:24,600
ongoing funny thing about it. 
I was told people was like The 

1271
01:04:24,600 --> 01:04:27,000
bureaus ugly, when it breaks up 
with people and it doesn't do it

1272
01:04:27,000 --> 01:04:29,700
in a nice way, like, throws all 
your stuff out on the lawn, it 

1273
01:04:29,700 --> 01:04:31,500
lights it all on fire. 
And then as you look at your 

1274
01:04:31,500 --> 01:04:33,300
stuff burning and you're like, 
you change the locks. 

1275
01:04:33,300 --> 01:04:35,200
I don't live here anymore. 
And they're like, why did you 

1276
01:04:35,200 --> 01:04:37,700
leave us? 
Yeah, that's crazy. 

1277
01:04:37,707 --> 01:04:40,800
It's like, it's your fault. 
I almost feel like a fraternity 

1278
01:04:40,800 --> 01:04:43,100
as you start seeing, some of the
things are wrote inside of the 

1279
01:04:43,100 --> 01:04:45,000
FBI. 
Like you, you turn your back on 

1280
01:04:45,000 --> 01:04:47,100
me even though they were doing 
something on ethical or they're 

1281
01:04:47,100 --> 01:04:49,200
asking you to do something 
unethical and Essence. 

1282
01:04:49,200 --> 01:04:52,000
It's a fraternity. 
It's a we have to no matter what

1283
01:04:52,000 --> 01:04:54,800
you have to stand behind us. 
It's the same old police 

1284
01:04:54,800 --> 01:04:57,200
mentality that I think is 
dangerous for communities as 

1285
01:04:57,200 --> 01:04:59,500
well as a, you know, right is 
right and wrong is wrong. 

1286
01:04:59,500 --> 01:05:02,200
And we just need to kind of have
a different barometer for how 

1287
01:05:02,200 --> 01:05:05,100
when people come through. 
Whether it's the FBI or, you 

1288
01:05:05,100 --> 01:05:08,400
know, State Patrol or any of 
these that the barometer is, you

1289
01:05:08,400 --> 01:05:10,600
know, always do good. 
And I think that's been lost in 

1290
01:05:10,600 --> 01:05:15,600
some form with with leadership 
and maybe that's and again, I'm 

1291
01:05:15,600 --> 01:05:19,000
on the outside looking in. 
So I don't have the same sort 

1292
01:05:19,000 --> 01:05:20,400
of. 
I mean, I can talk to people 

1293
01:05:20,400 --> 01:05:23,200
like Steve friend who says, 
yeah, they want to call her. 

1294
01:05:23,200 --> 01:05:26,600
I'm like Getting me. 
He's like, yeah, you want to sit

1295
01:05:26,600 --> 01:05:29,200
in a room and finger, painting 
and Cherry yoga. 

1296
01:05:29,200 --> 01:05:31,100
Zach. 
Did you, did you read the Durham

1297
01:05:31,100 --> 01:05:32,600
report? 
My chance parts of it. 

1298
01:05:32,600 --> 01:05:34,600
Yeah, there are certain things I
was looking for in there. 

1299
01:05:34,600 --> 01:05:36,700
That weren't included, what kind
of things did you not? 

1300
01:05:36,700 --> 01:05:38,400
See, and then I'll hone in on 
the thing that I thought was 

1301
01:05:38,400 --> 01:05:43,100
most pointed there. 
Um, I know the sac and the case 

1302
01:05:43,100 --> 01:05:46,100
agent on the Clinton Foundation 
case that was tanked by doj. 

1303
01:05:46,100 --> 01:05:48,000
I've heard some things about 
that. 

1304
01:05:49,200 --> 01:05:52,200
They were interviewed by Durham 
and it's not in his report, how 

1305
01:05:52,200 --> 01:05:54,900
interesting? 
And anyway, so without going 

1306
01:05:54,900 --> 01:05:57,600
too, deep into that rabbit hole.
And that's the thing. 

1307
01:05:57,600 --> 01:06:00,200
These things are very selective 
when they put out your acting 

1308
01:06:00,200 --> 01:06:02,100
like it's the culmination of all
the findings. 

1309
01:06:02,100 --> 01:06:04,500
And here's what you all paid 
for, and it's very curated 

1310
01:06:04,500 --> 01:06:05,300
information. 
Yeah. 

1311
01:06:05,300 --> 01:06:07,700
The one thing that Durham did 
say that I think was truly 

1312
01:06:07,700 --> 01:06:09,900
accurate and you're actually 
alluding to it as you're 

1313
01:06:09,900 --> 01:06:13,000
speaking. 
Is that There's no policy that 

1314
01:06:13,000 --> 01:06:15,500
would save the FBI. 
There's no procedural book. 

1315
01:06:15,500 --> 01:06:18,000
That says, if you did it just 
this way then everybody would be

1316
01:06:18,008 --> 01:06:19,900
right? 
It has to come from and this is 

1317
01:06:19,900 --> 01:06:21,400
Durham's, essentially I'm 
paraphrasing. 

1318
01:06:21,400 --> 01:06:24,100
He said it takes like the 
mindset of the people that are 

1319
01:06:24,100 --> 01:06:27,000
hired to basically know the 
Constitution is the number one 

1320
01:06:27,000 --> 01:06:28,800
goal and you have to do it 
right. 

1321
01:06:29,600 --> 01:06:31,900
Because it's right. 
And if you don't have people 

1322
01:06:31,900 --> 01:06:33,800
that have that mindset like you 
do where they're like, hey, give

1323
01:06:33,800 --> 01:06:36,100
me a fisa. 
If they go get a fisa, they are 

1324
01:06:36,100 --> 01:06:38,800
the problem and there's no 
policy that would be a guardrail

1325
01:06:38,800 --> 01:06:39,900
against that. 
It just doesn't matter. 

1326
01:06:39,900 --> 01:06:41,000
You'd always find a way around 
it. 

1327
01:06:41,000 --> 01:06:44,300
No, I'm gonna Circle back to 
your comment, but Kyle for you, 

1328
01:06:44,300 --> 01:06:48,700
there is no good litmus test for
Heroes and zeros in the bureau, 

1329
01:06:48,700 --> 01:06:51,400
or anywhere else. 
And there is no policy that's 

1330
01:06:51,400 --> 01:06:53,500
going to help you really sift 
through the heroes and zeros. 

1331
01:06:53,500 --> 01:06:58,400
Its Culture, The Bureau has a 
history of hiring really good 

1332
01:06:58,400 --> 01:07:00,400
Americans. 
But we're a cross-section of 

1333
01:07:00,400 --> 01:07:02,400
society. 
So we're getting some zeros into

1334
01:07:02,400 --> 01:07:05,600
the bureau. 
What we do not have and what 

1335
01:07:05,600 --> 01:07:08,600
we've had Corruption of is our 
leadership culture. 

1336
01:07:08,600 --> 01:07:11,600
Yeah, you could argue that we 
don't have a leadership culture.

1337
01:07:11,600 --> 01:07:14,900
Oddly enough, the bureau is 
known for providing some of the 

1338
01:07:14,900 --> 01:07:19,000
best law enforcement leadership 
instruction that there is to be 

1339
01:07:19,000 --> 01:07:20,700
found. 
I hear this, the National 

1340
01:07:20,700 --> 01:07:23,100
Academy, it makes me cringe 
because I think how is that 

1341
01:07:23,100 --> 01:07:24,500
possible? 
Because there's no leadership in

1342
01:07:24,500 --> 01:07:25,700
the bureau at all, it's all 
management. 

1343
01:07:26,400 --> 01:07:30,100
The folks that teach that. 
Would tell you that you're not 

1344
01:07:30,100 --> 01:07:34,200
going to teach an SES or senior 
executive service FBI agent. 

1345
01:07:34,200 --> 01:07:40,600
So, Eight essay section, chief 
Sac system director, and up 

1346
01:07:40,600 --> 01:07:44,500
anything. 
Because they ego know it, all 

1347
01:07:44,500 --> 01:07:48,100
they are the epitome of 
leadership in their own mind and

1348
01:07:48,100 --> 01:07:51,200
that is what, culturally, the 
bureau tells them Bureau, 

1349
01:07:51,200 --> 01:07:54,400
doesn't tell them. 
You need to learn a culture of 

1350
01:07:54,408 --> 01:07:57,200
leadership. 
You're told, you are a culture 

1351
01:07:57,200 --> 01:08:00,400
of leadership. 
It's like, but so to Circle back

1352
01:08:00,400 --> 01:08:04,500
to your comment. 
You get indeed any organization.

1353
01:08:04,500 --> 01:08:06,600
You go into is going to have 
culture, and you're going to get

1354
01:08:06,600 --> 01:08:08,200
a Doctrine into that. 
I'm you think of the Marine 

1355
01:08:08,200 --> 01:08:09,900
Corps, right? 
You wanna talk about culture and

1356
01:08:09,900 --> 01:08:12,300
those guys getting in gals, get 
indoctrinated into that 

1357
01:08:12,300 --> 01:08:16,600
immediately. 
But in the bureau you are 

1358
01:08:16,600 --> 01:08:18,500
introduction to. 
That culture is good and bad. 

1359
01:08:18,508 --> 01:08:22,399
In the one of the bad examples. 
Like what came out for me is 

1360
01:08:22,399 --> 01:08:25,700
first thing Decatur. 
You were told you will not 

1361
01:08:25,700 --> 01:08:31,600
embarrass the FBI and if the FBI
ever wants to screw you, it will

1362
01:08:31,600 --> 01:08:35,300
find a way. 
So that gets ingrained and gets 

1363
01:08:35,308 --> 01:08:38,600
placed on repeat throughout your
career, but when you're having 

1364
01:08:38,600 --> 01:08:41,800
fun and you're not the guy or 
gal, that's in the crosshairs, 

1365
01:08:41,800 --> 01:08:44,899
you've not embarrassed the 
bureau, you're running a gun in 

1366
01:08:44,899 --> 01:08:46,399
you're rocking and rolling, 
you're getting Federal 

1367
01:08:46,399 --> 01:08:48,300
prosecutions. 
You're running informants, and 

1368
01:08:48,300 --> 01:08:50,000
you're just having the grandest 
of times. 

1369
01:08:50,000 --> 01:08:51,600
This is the thing that people 
don't understand. 

1370
01:08:51,600 --> 01:08:54,899
Yeah, I don't even know that 
people are getting crushed or 

1371
01:08:54,899 --> 01:08:58,000
it's it's all your problem. 
The bureau, suppresses that 

1372
01:08:58,000 --> 01:09:01,000
information it's always here, 
say, it's always, well, I heard 

1373
01:09:01,000 --> 01:09:05,500
about a guy or I heard about a 
gal and it's never really real 

1374
01:09:05,500 --> 01:09:07,700
with the presumption of guilt is
that they did something wrong. 

1375
01:09:07,700 --> 01:09:09,200
They must have because they 
look. 

1376
01:09:09,200 --> 01:09:11,899
So here's Zach, he's doing fine.
And he's like, I'm running my 

1377
01:09:11,899 --> 01:09:14,000
cases. 
I hear about this dude who did 

1378
01:09:14,000 --> 01:09:15,500
this? 
Well, it must be more to the 

1379
01:09:15,500 --> 01:09:17,700
story. 
The bureau is probably right in 

1380
01:09:17,700 --> 01:09:20,700
this case is the default 
assumption until you actually 

1381
01:09:20,700 --> 01:09:23,200
witness it do something that is 
so objectively wrong. 

1382
01:09:23,200 --> 01:09:25,100
You're like, whoa, how did this 
happen? 

1383
01:09:25,100 --> 01:09:26,700
Yes. 
And you never think it's going 

1384
01:09:26,700 --> 01:09:28,800
to be you in the Crosshair 
because it's just not you until 

1385
01:09:28,800 --> 01:09:33,200
it is I lived I mean I pushed 
hard and I had a great time as a

1386
01:09:33,200 --> 01:09:36,899
case agent and I always the 
bureau has so many rules and 

1387
01:09:36,899 --> 01:09:39,100
regulations. 
I always just assumed that On 

1388
01:09:39,100 --> 01:09:41,300
Any Given Tuesday, I violated 
something, whatever it was 

1389
01:09:41,308 --> 01:09:43,700
forgot to turn the Bluetooth off
on my phone before I came in the

1390
01:09:43,700 --> 01:09:47,899
building something. 
But I believed that as long as 

1391
01:09:47,899 --> 01:09:51,800
what I was doing was in good 
faith. that I might get slapped 

1392
01:09:51,800 --> 01:09:56,100
on the wrist for an inadvertent 
infraction, but I'd get dusted 

1393
01:09:56,100 --> 01:09:59,900
off, sent back out into the 
world and told to go forth and 

1394
01:09:59,900 --> 01:10:00,300
Conquer. 
All right. 

1395
01:10:00,308 --> 01:10:02,600
So let me let me tell you what, 
people feel, yes. 

1396
01:10:02,600 --> 01:10:07,600
Because I think what you're 
getting to is I'm and this is 

1397
01:10:07,608 --> 01:10:09,600
the problem. 
This this if we go to work, the 

1398
01:10:09,600 --> 01:10:11,300
problem, not the symptoms. 
So the symptoms are what you 

1399
01:10:11,308 --> 01:10:14,100
just said that this presumption 
of innocence that same 

1400
01:10:14,100 --> 01:10:16,800
presumption is actually applied 
across the board. 

1401
01:10:16,800 --> 01:10:19,300
There's lack of consequences and
the people that go out those 

1402
01:10:19,300 --> 01:10:22,100
consequences or the judges so we
can look at the Durham report 

1403
01:10:22,100 --> 01:10:25,000
and some of the prosecution that
he saw it in DC knowing that 

1404
01:10:25,000 --> 01:10:27,500
full, well, that he wasn't going
to get a prosecution even though

1405
01:10:27,500 --> 01:10:30,100
the people in The Stand actually
admitted to what they did, which

1406
01:10:30,100 --> 01:10:32,900
was a growing and yet they came 
back with a not guilty verdict. 

1407
01:10:32,900 --> 01:10:36,300
So you have you have a system 
that does not allow for 

1408
01:10:36,300 --> 01:10:40,000
accountability allows for, you 
know, for political persecutions

1409
01:10:40,000 --> 01:10:42,100
and what happened to you, what 
happened to what happened to 

1410
01:10:42,108 --> 01:10:43,300
Steve, what happened to Garrett?
What happened to? 

1411
01:10:43,300 --> 01:10:46,200
I mean, you could just keep 
going down line, all of those 

1412
01:10:46,200 --> 01:10:50,600
things that happened, you wanted
to presume that everyone out. 

1413
01:10:50,600 --> 01:10:52,200
There is writing stories, they 
won't stories about you. 

1414
01:10:52,200 --> 01:10:55,600
Yes, saying that you did 
something wrong when you whistle

1415
01:10:55,600 --> 01:10:57,600
blew? 
So, no matter what happened, the

1416
01:10:57,600 --> 01:11:01,000
system was designed to tell 
people that they're right, and 

1417
01:11:01,000 --> 01:11:02,300
you're wrong and we can Crush 
you. 

1418
01:11:03,100 --> 01:11:06,100
Now, imagine that on a broader 
scale, for the American people, 

1419
01:11:06,100 --> 01:11:08,600
who don't have a voice, they 
don't have a lot of people on, 

1420
01:11:08,600 --> 01:11:11,100
on X. 
They don't have the ability to 

1421
01:11:11,100 --> 01:11:14,000
tell people what's going on, but
yet the story was that they did 

1422
01:11:14,000 --> 01:11:15,800
something wrong. 
So you could start to see the 

1423
01:11:15,800 --> 01:11:19,000
erosion of trust, not just for 
the FBI, but to see and I got to

1424
01:11:19,000 --> 01:11:21,800
see it up front and personal 
both on the foreign side, I'm 

1425
01:11:21,800 --> 01:11:24,100
not respecting, the sovereignty 
of other nations and on the 

1426
01:11:24,108 --> 01:11:27,700
domestic side of saying, why are
we not sensitively looking at 

1427
01:11:27,700 --> 01:11:29,600
what's happening? 
In this case, the election 

1428
01:11:29,600 --> 01:11:30,400
system. 
So things like that. 

1429
01:11:30,400 --> 01:11:33,700
And so there's this, this whole 
presumption, this whole kind of 

1430
01:11:33,708 --> 01:11:36,100
cloud that is built over the 
American people and the American

1431
01:11:36,100 --> 01:11:40,100
people until it bites you. 
You're not caught in the net and

1432
01:11:40,100 --> 01:11:43,100
as soon as you get caught in the
net, everyone assumes you did 

1433
01:11:43,100 --> 01:11:44,200
something wrong. 
That's right. 

1434
01:11:44,200 --> 01:11:48,700
Which is why you have a 97% or 
98%, you know, settlement ratio 

1435
01:11:48,700 --> 01:11:52,100
with the, with the FBI or or 
anyone because she can't fight 

1436
01:11:52,100 --> 01:11:53,900
City Hall. 
And when you do, they're gonna 

1437
01:11:53,900 --> 01:11:56,200
punish you. 
And what you saw with Jason's 

1438
01:11:56,200 --> 01:11:58,900
the j6s, they're gonna punish 
them, and then they're going to,

1439
01:11:58,900 --> 01:12:01,000
they're going to increase the 
crime or the punishment 

1440
01:12:01,000 --> 01:12:04,900
exponentially because you did 
not bow down to us. 

1441
01:12:04,900 --> 01:12:07,900
And so, this is the ethos. 
This is the problem that I have 

1442
01:12:07,900 --> 01:12:12,300
is that the FBI is just falling 
that downward degradation of our

1443
01:12:12,300 --> 01:12:14,300
society. 
It's been there for a long time 

1444
01:12:14,300 --> 01:12:17,500
but now the, you know, the 
emperor has no clothes and the 

1445
01:12:17,500 --> 01:12:19,700
frustrating part is I see what 
it's done to us. 

1446
01:12:19,700 --> 01:12:21,400
See what it's done to us. 
He was something Garrett, 

1447
01:12:21,400 --> 01:12:23,400
Garrett's more pissed off. 
Anyone else by the way? 

1448
01:12:23,400 --> 01:12:26,000
He's no, he's not a pissed off 
that I am. 

1449
01:12:26,000 --> 01:12:28,300
He just, he's just opening up a 
little bit right now. 

1450
01:12:28,300 --> 01:12:32,200
So I feel for you because I felt
it. 

1451
01:12:33,000 --> 01:12:35,800
In the Americans that have felt 
it, they might serve three four 

1452
01:12:35,800 --> 01:12:39,700
or five years in prison. 
You did good work but but I 

1453
01:12:39,700 --> 01:12:42,000
really want to get to what why 
you left the FBI. 

1454
01:12:42,000 --> 01:12:44,300
Let me add one little piece of 
color because there's always a 

1455
01:12:44,300 --> 01:12:45,300
little bit of gray and the 
stuff. 

1456
01:12:45,308 --> 01:12:47,700
The problem is and I think Zach 
will validate this. 

1457
01:12:48,800 --> 01:12:53,000
That 90 that 97% that you you 
know whatever it is. 95% 97 we 

1458
01:12:53,000 --> 01:12:54,800
hear different numbers of why 
people settle why they end up 

1459
01:12:54,808 --> 01:12:57,400
playing out. 
A huge chunk of that is because 

1460
01:12:57,400 --> 01:12:59,800
those people did the crime, 
that's why the myth is able to 

1461
01:12:59,800 --> 01:13:01,200
confuse. 
There are a small number of 

1462
01:13:01,200 --> 01:13:03,800
people that get absolutely 
targeted in ways that are 

1463
01:13:03,800 --> 01:13:05,100
inappropriate. 
And I've interviewed some of 

1464
01:13:05,108 --> 01:13:06,900
them and it's shocking, you're 
like, holy crap. 

1465
01:13:06,900 --> 01:13:09,100
How was that possible? 
Because I saw guys like Zach out

1466
01:13:09,100 --> 01:13:10,800
there doing criminal cases, they
were doing it. 

1467
01:13:10,800 --> 01:13:12,100
Good faith. 
They were doing the right work 

1468
01:13:12,100 --> 01:13:15,100
and so when you dominate people 
that have done bad things, 

1469
01:13:15,100 --> 01:13:16,300
you're like, we're the good 
guys. 

1470
01:13:16,300 --> 01:13:18,100
Everybody starts feeling that 
they're like, okay, we're 

1471
01:13:18,100 --> 01:13:19,600
getting it. 
I know I'm doing the right 

1472
01:13:19,600 --> 01:13:21,500
thing. 
Everybody else must be doing the

1473
01:13:21,500 --> 01:13:24,100
right thing, too. 
That's small number of people 

1474
01:13:24,100 --> 01:13:25,400
are trading on. 
Its the first thing. 

1475
01:13:25,407 --> 01:13:27,900
You said, when you flash those 
credits, it's not your 

1476
01:13:27,900 --> 01:13:29,000
credibility that you're walking 
on. 

1477
01:13:29,000 --> 01:13:32,300
Its 100 Years of people that 
came before you did good things.

1478
01:13:32,300 --> 01:13:35,100
And if you choose to abuse it 
here, you're still going to get 

1479
01:13:35,100 --> 01:13:36,800
that credibility. 
You're still going to be able to

1480
01:13:36,800 --> 01:13:38,700
get all the strength of it and 
you're still going to have that 

1481
01:13:38,700 --> 01:13:40,300
massive machine pushing behind 
you. 

1482
01:13:41,300 --> 01:13:44,300
So it's not so simple as well. 
Everything, the FBI has done is 

1483
01:13:44,300 --> 01:13:46,600
done is wrong, and that's where 
I always end up in the spot 

1484
01:13:46,600 --> 01:13:49,900
where I end up pissing off 
conservatives, you know, we'll 

1485
01:13:49,900 --> 01:13:52,500
put the capital c like major 
conservative groups know because

1486
01:13:52,500 --> 01:13:54,800
I know fairly that there are 
things that were done, right? 

1487
01:13:54,800 --> 01:13:56,600
I had a conversation with a guy 
from HRT the other day. 

1488
01:13:56,600 --> 01:13:58,400
This is an interesting thing 
about mar-a, right? 

1489
01:13:58,400 --> 01:14:00,700
We know that HRT was probably 
used. 

1490
01:14:00,700 --> 01:14:02,600
That's what we a lot of people 
have shared this with me. 

1491
01:14:03,900 --> 01:14:06,900
I don't think so on that but 
carry on okay assume that it was

1492
01:14:06,900 --> 01:14:09,400
okay, let's just assume it was 
and you go well, that's it. 

1493
01:14:09,400 --> 01:14:13,300
Abuse because, you know, Marla 
was a presidential, you know, it

1494
01:14:13,300 --> 01:14:15,400
was a protectee area by the 
Secret Service and there's no 

1495
01:14:15,400 --> 01:14:17,600
reason for it. 
And so I talked to a guy and I 

1496
01:14:17,600 --> 01:14:19,800
go, how do you square that do? 
Like, let's just assume that 

1497
01:14:19,800 --> 01:14:21,900
it's true. 
That HRT, the hostage Rescue 

1498
01:14:21,900 --> 01:14:24,300
Team, FBI's, tier one SWAT went 
in and did that morning. 

1499
01:14:24,300 --> 01:14:25,900
How do you square that with 
those people? 

1500
01:14:25,900 --> 01:14:27,900
And he was like, What if they 
just wanted to have? 

1501
01:14:27,900 --> 01:14:30,500
Like the best because they're 
not gonna make any mistakes and 

1502
01:14:30,500 --> 01:14:31,900
they know that it's a Leo Rich 
environment. 

1503
01:14:31,900 --> 01:14:33,800
There's other possibilities for 
Blue on Blue. 

1504
01:14:33,800 --> 01:14:35,700
Do you just bring in the best? 
Because they're gonna be able to

1505
01:14:35,708 --> 01:14:38,100
walk through it and not get 
jumpy and you're not gonna have 

1506
01:14:38,100 --> 01:14:41,600
somebody accidentally shoot the 
wrong guy and I went That's the 

1507
01:14:41,600 --> 01:14:44,100
only argument I'm okay with and 
there's a possibility that that 

1508
01:14:44,100 --> 01:14:46,400
would be true. 
There's a possibility you used 

1509
01:14:46,400 --> 01:14:49,500
your best SWAT guys Miami is an 
enhanced team so Miami has one 

1510
01:14:49,500 --> 01:14:52,900
of the better SWAT teams in the 
FBI so even if it's just Miami 

1511
01:14:52,900 --> 01:14:55,700
Swan you go you want to have 
SWAT, instead of regular agents,

1512
01:14:55,700 --> 01:14:57,800
clearing it because somebody 
would get jumpy and you get one 

1513
01:14:57,800 --> 01:15:00,300
of those people that we saw fail
out of the academy with a 

1514
01:15:00,300 --> 01:15:01,900
handgun. 
Surrounded by Secret Service 

1515
01:15:01,900 --> 01:15:03,800
people and they just have some 
conflict. 

1516
01:15:03,800 --> 01:15:06,500
So, is that a possibility? 
I have to entertain that, and 

1517
01:15:06,500 --> 01:15:08,500
that makes you piss off. 
Everybody that wants the black 

1518
01:15:08,500 --> 01:15:10,200
or white. 
It's the same people that want 

1519
01:15:10,200 --> 01:15:15,200
really simple answers to really 
complex problems, which is 55, 

1520
01:15:15,200 --> 01:15:18,500
field offices, tons of different
programmatic, you know, issues 

1521
01:15:18,500 --> 01:15:21,200
and threats. 
They don't all handle at the 

1522
01:15:21,208 --> 01:15:23,300
same way, so we're dealing with 
this problem and anyway you you 

1523
01:15:23,300 --> 01:15:26,000
saw unique thing which is so 
funny because I know enough 

1524
01:15:26,000 --> 01:15:27,200
about your story for the last. 
What? 

1525
01:15:27,200 --> 01:15:29,900
Two, three years. 
And you hear all the stuff in 

1526
01:15:29,900 --> 01:15:31,700
the media and everybody knows 
that they're right. 

1527
01:15:31,700 --> 01:15:34,200
And nobody knows what they're 
talking about and I just kept 

1528
01:15:34,200 --> 01:15:35,400
saying it. 
So whenever you're ready to, 

1529
01:15:35,407 --> 01:15:37,800
yes, I saw it on your face, 
though. 

1530
01:15:37,800 --> 01:15:40,100
When I said that you're like, 
Hell. 

1531
01:15:40,100 --> 01:15:43,100
Yeah, that's how I feel, right? 
I mean it and it's painful 

1532
01:15:43,100 --> 01:15:45,500
because people are writing bad 
things about you, and, you know,

1533
01:15:45,508 --> 01:15:48,600
that doesn't Define your 
character back in 2004. 

1534
01:15:48,600 --> 01:15:51,000
You didn't make a decision to 
serve your country and go to, 

1535
01:15:51,008 --> 01:15:54,400
and go to war, because you want 
to do bad things. 

1536
01:15:54,400 --> 01:15:56,500
You didn't join the FBI. 
If you wanted to do bad things, 

1537
01:15:56,500 --> 01:15:58,600
and yet you took an ethical 
stand. 

1538
01:15:58,600 --> 01:16:01,500
And now I'm getting ahead of 
myself to get ethical stand and 

1539
01:16:01,500 --> 01:16:03,600
all of a sudden, you feel like 
the same thing that you serve. 

1540
01:16:03,600 --> 01:16:06,600
The American people has now 
betrayed you, and the apparatus 

1541
01:16:06,600 --> 01:16:08,700
is too big. 
It's big enough that you don't 

1542
01:16:08,700 --> 01:16:10,500
have a voice. 
You feel like, no matter what 

1543
01:16:10,500 --> 01:16:13,300
they say, that already went 
around the entire world and it 

1544
01:16:13,300 --> 01:16:15,100
came back. 
And now you have to, you have to

1545
01:16:15,100 --> 01:16:16,800
claw back on the truth. 
I mean, how do you how do you 

1546
01:16:16,800 --> 01:16:21,300
reconcile that? 
I mean it hurts. 

1547
01:16:21,300 --> 01:16:27,700
Yeah there is no real reconcile.
The machine is built to the to 

1548
01:16:27,700 --> 01:16:29,500
protect the machine. 
Now. 

1549
01:16:30,400 --> 01:16:32,800
Maybe the machine is too cutting
of a term. 

1550
01:16:32,800 --> 01:16:35,500
The bureaucracy is built to 
protect the bureaucracy. 

1551
01:16:36,400 --> 01:16:38,400
The fraternity is built to 
protect the fraternity. 

1552
01:16:40,300 --> 01:16:43,700
The fix for that is culture. 
And, you know, when I think 

1553
01:16:43,700 --> 01:16:47,400
about what cache Patel as the 
future director of The Bureau, 

1554
01:16:47,400 --> 01:16:52,400
hopefully has in front of him. 
There's definitively some fixes 

1555
01:16:52,400 --> 01:16:55,500
that can be made up front. 
Reduction in headquarter size. 

1556
01:16:56,100 --> 01:16:59,700
Removal of, you know, some of 
the programmatic, you know, 

1557
01:16:59,708 --> 01:17:03,000
integrated program management. 
My audience knows this term. 

1558
01:17:03,000 --> 01:17:08,300
So yeah, so all that aside, but 
the reality of it is, if the FBI

1559
01:17:08,300 --> 01:17:12,600
wants to be The FBI that the 
American people deserve. 

1560
01:17:12,600 --> 01:17:17,800
It takes a leadership. 
Cultural shift that will take 

1561
01:17:17,800 --> 01:17:20,600
greater than a generation of FBI
agents. 

1562
01:17:21,200 --> 01:17:23,500
So the folks that are being 
hired or getting in the queue, 

1563
01:17:23,500 --> 01:17:28,300
now going to the academy would 
require that introduction to a 

1564
01:17:28,300 --> 01:17:31,200
new culture. 
But you're also got to 

1565
01:17:31,200 --> 01:17:33,800
understand that that 
introduction and that investment

1566
01:17:33,800 --> 01:17:36,500
is going to be degraded because 
of the culture they're entering.

1567
01:17:36,500 --> 01:17:38,700
That's why I say it's greater 
than a generation. 

1568
01:17:38,700 --> 01:17:41,600
So if you bring an inks now in 
your introducing them to a 

1569
01:17:41,600 --> 01:17:44,400
leadership culture, that is what
you would want that stands for 

1570
01:17:44,400 --> 01:17:48,800
principal doesn't protect the 
agency at the forsake, its own 

1571
01:17:48,800 --> 01:17:52,900
folks. 
It would take, you know, 20 

1572
01:17:52,900 --> 01:17:55,400
years, 15 years, 20 years for 
them to be in senior executive 

1573
01:17:55,400 --> 01:17:58,100
leadership positions. 
But because of the culture that 

1574
01:17:58,100 --> 01:18:02,000
exists today, Even the best 
instruction that comes out of 

1575
01:18:02,008 --> 01:18:05,100
the National Academy is going to
be degraded because of the 

1576
01:18:05,100 --> 01:18:07,400
culture they're entering into. 
So it's going to take an 

1577
01:18:07,400 --> 01:18:09,800
evolution of that and I think 
it'll take greater than a 

1578
01:18:09,800 --> 01:18:12,600
generation to see it. 
But it would take investment in 

1579
01:18:12,600 --> 01:18:14,300
decision from a cash potel or 
somebody else. 

1580
01:18:14,300 --> 01:18:17,900
Right now to start moving the 
ship in that direction. 

1581
01:18:17,900 --> 01:18:19,000
So I turn on the Titanic. 
Right. 

1582
01:18:19,000 --> 01:18:22,800
But know that the machine is 
built to protect the machine. 

1583
01:18:22,800 --> 01:18:26,000
You were fighting a machine will
get into some of the words of 

1584
01:18:26,000 --> 01:18:29,300
advice that I got you know when 
things started to go south by 

1585
01:18:29,300 --> 01:18:31,700
folks that were like you really 
got to think about what you're 

1586
01:18:31,700 --> 01:18:38,200
about to go up against Oh man. 
So Criminal stuff Richmond, 

1587
01:18:38,200 --> 01:18:41,100
phenomenal. 
Great people that I worked with 

1588
01:18:41,100 --> 01:18:43,400
in the bureau. 
Yes, there were some zeros too. 

1589
01:18:43,400 --> 01:18:45,600
Great people that I worked with 
that were cops. 

1590
01:18:45,600 --> 01:18:49,200
Yes, there are two again, it's a
cross section of society, but I 

1591
01:18:49,200 --> 01:18:51,400
worked some great cases. 
I worked some great techniques. 

1592
01:18:51,400 --> 01:18:53,700
I had informants. 
I did all the stuff that is 

1593
01:18:53,708 --> 01:18:55,800
SWAT. 
You know, it became a SWAT team 

1594
01:18:55,800 --> 01:18:58,600
leader, I mean, I checked all of
feathers off right. 

1595
01:18:58,600 --> 01:19:04,200
You know, I had preacher sniper 
team leader, you know, repel 

1596
01:19:04,200 --> 01:19:06,000
master. 
You name it. 

1597
01:19:06,000 --> 01:19:09,400
I just thought at that time, my 
first 10. 

1598
01:19:09,400 --> 01:19:12,600
So years in the bureau that this
job was everything I wanted it 

1599
01:19:12,600 --> 01:19:14,900
to be. 
Yes, I heard of some things that

1600
01:19:14,900 --> 01:19:18,200
were like, hmm. 
That doesn't sound so good. 

1601
01:19:19,000 --> 01:19:22,000
But it's not me and I'm not 
seeing it per se, right? 

1602
01:19:22,000 --> 01:19:24,900
It's not you and it's not like 
one of your close buddies where 

1603
01:19:24,900 --> 01:19:27,600
you know, the inside track that 
is correct in the bureau. 

1604
01:19:27,600 --> 01:19:30,000
Does a bang-up job of 
controlling the narrative. 

1605
01:19:30,000 --> 01:19:33,400
You don't talk about that stuff.
You don't need to know. 

1606
01:19:34,200 --> 01:19:37,600
All right, so I do that, you 
know for eight plus years and 

1607
01:19:37,600 --> 01:19:40,400
then one of my very first 
supervisors goes back, you know 

1608
01:19:40,400 --> 01:19:42,700
he ends up becoming an sac and 
then he becomes the assistant 

1609
01:19:42,700 --> 01:19:47,300
director of train division. 
And at the time culturally and 

1610
01:19:47,300 --> 01:19:49,600
potentially still today, 
Training Division is not a 

1611
01:19:49,600 --> 01:19:52,400
career progression step, right? 
Going to become an instructor. 

1612
01:19:52,400 --> 01:19:56,300
At the Academy is not thought 
upon in high regards by the 

1613
01:19:56,300 --> 01:19:58,800
executive management within the 
bureau, you were supposed to 

1614
01:19:58,800 --> 01:20:01,100
stovepipe. 
If you really want to go up in 

1615
01:20:01,100 --> 01:20:04,600
the bureau which is not much 
ejector, you got to go up and be

1616
01:20:04,600 --> 01:20:07,400
a program manager headquarters 
and filing crime. 

1617
01:20:07,400 --> 01:20:10,000
Gangs talk West or International
terrorism, see what whatever it 

1618
01:20:10,000 --> 01:20:13,300
is, you work and then you'll pop
back out as a supervisor for 

1619
01:20:13,300 --> 01:20:17,500
that particular block. 
And then in the new progress up 

1620
01:20:17,500 --> 01:20:22,200
going to train division is off 
of that and prior to me 

1621
01:20:22,200 --> 01:20:25,700
instituting a policy of you will
not be an instructor for more 

1622
01:20:25,700 --> 01:20:28,600
than five years. 
Agents could leave the field 

1623
01:20:28,600 --> 01:20:31,000
become instructors of the 
academy and then just hang out 

1624
01:20:31,000 --> 01:20:34,200
there for their whole career and
just suck down, GS 14 or gs-15. 

1625
01:20:34,200 --> 01:20:36,400
Pay not get calls on nights and 
weekends. 

1626
01:20:36,400 --> 01:20:41,200
And you know, Some degree phone 
it in good job. 

1627
01:20:41,208 --> 01:20:44,100
So call me came in to 
retirement. 

1628
01:20:44,100 --> 01:20:46,000
Yep. 
So Comey came in and made a good

1629
01:20:46,008 --> 01:20:49,200
policy decision for my personal 
standpoint of five years in year

1630
01:20:49,200 --> 01:20:50,100
out. 
And you've got to have 

1631
01:20:50,108 --> 01:20:52,800
applicable field experience when
you're going to come to the 

1632
01:20:52,808 --> 01:20:54,100
academy and teach. 
I think that was a good 

1633
01:20:54,108 --> 01:20:56,700
decision. 
Some growing pains with it 

1634
01:20:56,700 --> 01:20:59,500
because it's the same time of 
square peg round hole with the 

1635
01:20:59,500 --> 01:21:02,200
integration of Intel analysts. 
And with we want the FBI Academy

1636
01:21:02,200 --> 01:21:03,700
to be a little bit of a washout 
program. 

1637
01:21:03,700 --> 01:21:11,600
So as that was progressing again
a new ad, I had a lot of faith 

1638
01:21:11,600 --> 01:21:13,000
in him. 
He was one of the good leaders 

1639
01:21:13,000 --> 01:21:16,400
that went up. 
It was a guy that was capable of

1640
01:21:16,400 --> 01:21:18,000
sidestepping, some hand 
grenades. 

1641
01:21:18,700 --> 01:21:21,800
And he asked me, if I would put 
in for the Academy, my current 

1642
01:21:21,800 --> 01:21:24,000
SAC at the time in Richmond 
division, thought I was an 

1643
01:21:24,000 --> 01:21:27,700
absolute moron for going to the 
academy because it was outside 

1644
01:21:27,700 --> 01:21:31,200
the progression career track and
he's like, you're throwing your 

1645
01:21:31,200 --> 01:21:35,300
career at the window in my 
response was Sir, respectfully. 

1646
01:21:35,300 --> 01:21:37,500
I get that. 
But my goal isn't to become the 

1647
01:21:37,500 --> 01:21:40,500
next assistant director, like, I
just want to enjoy my time in 

1648
01:21:40,500 --> 01:21:43,200
the bureau. 
I like to teach. 

1649
01:21:43,200 --> 01:21:46,600
I said the opportunity for me to
go and influence the culture at 

1650
01:21:46,600 --> 01:21:49,000
the Academy. 
I believe in the person that's 

1651
01:21:49,000 --> 01:21:51,000
asking me to come. 
So anyway, I didn't get handed a

1652
01:21:51,000 --> 01:21:56,300
job. 
I put my 9542 Um so but I knew 

1653
01:21:56,308 --> 01:21:58,700
going in that you become stale 
there real fast. 

1654
01:21:58,700 --> 01:22:03,000
So I kind of said an arbitrary 
goal of Two years Max and I 

1655
01:22:03,000 --> 01:22:04,900
gotta bounce. 
Whether I gotta step down, come 

1656
01:22:04,900 --> 01:22:08,100
back to Richmond. 
Take a hardship transfer or 

1657
01:22:08,100 --> 01:22:12,500
compete for a desk. 
I grew up in Montana and I was 

1658
01:22:12,500 --> 01:22:14,800
married at the time. 
And at the time, going to the 

1659
01:22:14,800 --> 01:22:17,800
academy. 
Right about them, my wife got 

1660
01:22:17,800 --> 01:22:20,700
pregnant with our first child. 
So my goals in life at that 

1661
01:22:20,708 --> 01:22:23,100
point is like I grew up in the 
Wilds in the mountains of 

1662
01:22:23,100 --> 01:22:24,800
Montana. 
I want to raise my children out 

1663
01:22:24,800 --> 01:22:28,600
there, you know, the easiest, 
the most obvious path is to try 

1664
01:22:28,600 --> 01:22:31,100
to compete for a desk somewhere 
out a region that I would like 

1665
01:22:31,100 --> 01:22:33,100
to live a desk is a supervisor 
reposition. 

1666
01:22:34,200 --> 01:22:36,000
So that's the that's the path 
I'm on. 

1667
01:22:37,800 --> 01:22:42,200
I get to the academy, I have a 
phenomenal unit, it's similar in

1668
01:22:42,200 --> 01:22:46,700
mentality to a SWAT team that 
it's very the bureau doesn't 

1669
01:22:46,700 --> 01:22:49,600
always have great camaraderie 
like squads, oftentimes don't 

1670
01:22:49,600 --> 01:22:51,900
have great camaraderie. 
There's a lot of times people 

1671
01:22:51,900 --> 01:22:53,600
are all working their own 
individual cases. 

1672
01:22:53,600 --> 01:22:57,000
What year was this when you're 
there, I got there in 17 so I 

1673
01:22:57,000 --> 01:22:58,500
crossed your path at some point 
there. 

1674
01:22:58,500 --> 01:23:01,200
I came in and used to teach the 
care Under Fire, okay. 

1675
01:23:01,200 --> 01:23:03,600
So I come in for a day and work 
with them, but I know that 

1676
01:23:03,600 --> 01:23:06,900
because I look familiar from 
before that too and it was all I

1677
01:23:06,900 --> 01:23:08,500
find I run into people always so
many guys out there. 

1678
01:23:08,508 --> 01:23:12,000
Yeah, for sure exactly. 
Um so yeah, I got there and 

1679
01:23:12,000 --> 01:23:16,800
April of 17 and left in April of
19 that in there. 

1680
01:23:16,800 --> 01:23:22,700
That's all right. 
And I'm definitely not knowing 

1681
01:23:22,700 --> 01:23:25,800
for self-confidence so it's 
definitely getting its own way. 

1682
01:23:25,800 --> 01:23:31,400
I like that I have a great group
of folks that I'm working with 

1683
01:23:31,400 --> 01:23:36,500
were very close knit. 
You know, it's It's lots of good

1684
01:23:36,500 --> 01:23:38,400
instruction but also lots of 
light-hearted joking. 

1685
01:23:38,400 --> 01:23:41,000
Amongst the instructors of just,
you know, kind of getting 

1686
01:23:41,000 --> 01:23:42,500
through the rinse and repeat of 
it all. 

1687
01:23:42,500 --> 01:23:47,000
But I also got the first real 
look at house in the benches. 

1688
01:23:47,000 --> 01:23:49,700
Were for seen, you executive 
service was in the bureau. 

1689
01:23:49,700 --> 01:23:54,600
I landed with a good assistant 
director and a pretty good 

1690
01:23:54,600 --> 01:23:56,500
section chief, both of which are
new from Richmond. 

1691
01:23:56,500 --> 01:23:59,400
This was after Kelly left, 
whatever her name was, was 

1692
01:23:59,400 --> 01:24:01,700
Kellie, Fowler, or something 
like that, she leave. 

1693
01:24:01,700 --> 01:24:05,300
And then you're, you're guy came
in as the 80 He would have come 

1694
01:24:05,300 --> 01:24:09,000
in in 16 and then he left in 18 
and went and been became an EAD 

1695
01:24:09,000 --> 01:24:10,700
for a hot minute. 
And then he punched out. 

1696
01:24:10,708 --> 01:24:13,700
I'm thinking of a section chief,
there was a female section 

1697
01:24:13,700 --> 01:24:15,500
chief. 
She was married to another aged 

1698
01:24:15,500 --> 01:24:18,500
Kelly, something or other? 
Uh, yes, she was atrocious. 

1699
01:24:19,300 --> 01:24:22,300
As a human being, there were 
some not great Folks at the 

1700
01:24:22,308 --> 01:24:24,800
Academy. 
Unlike you, he will drop names 

1701
01:24:24,800 --> 01:24:27,200
all day twice on Sunday was 
Kellie. 

1702
01:24:27,200 --> 01:24:29,400
Fowler. 
But I mean, he swear, she was 

1703
01:24:29,400 --> 01:24:31,000
the, it was one of the dumbest 
things I ever heard. 

1704
01:24:31,000 --> 01:24:32,700
I just remember, being at the 
Academy I saw guys. 

1705
01:24:32,700 --> 01:24:35,100
Like you sure I saw, guys, like 
Paul Herron, who was like a 

1706
01:24:35,108 --> 01:24:37,500
stud, like, just awesome. 
You saw like, really cool. 

1707
01:24:37,500 --> 01:24:39,700
Dude. 
We're just like mellow, you 

1708
01:24:39,700 --> 01:24:41,600
know? 
Like just like What I wanted 

1709
01:24:41,600 --> 01:24:44,800
people to be humble. 
This is this is always not the 

1710
01:24:44,800 --> 01:24:46,000
way. 
If you were, you know, turn down

1711
01:24:46,000 --> 01:24:47,600
doors in Afghanistan. 
Like, you know, different things

1712
01:24:47,600 --> 01:24:50,300
than me not presenting expertise
that it wasn't. 

1713
01:24:50,300 --> 01:24:53,600
And then you had this lady and 
she was like one time me. 

1714
01:24:53,600 --> 01:24:56,400
And my husband were like kissing
a convenience store because we 

1715
01:24:56,400 --> 01:24:58,700
saw two youth that were wearing 
hoodies and they were black. 

1716
01:24:58,700 --> 01:25:01,100
And I can say that because my 
husband's black and you're like,

1717
01:25:01,100 --> 01:25:03,000
no, you can't say that. 
That's the dumbest thing I've 

1718
01:25:03,000 --> 01:25:04,300
ever heard. 
And then she was like, yeah. 

1719
01:25:04,300 --> 01:25:06,200
And then we thought he was, 
like, you can't say that. 

1720
01:25:06,200 --> 01:25:09,000
It was like, the dump. 
It was like the classic. 

1721
01:25:09,000 --> 01:25:12,100
I also said in a CI training, I 
was like, I had a case for eight

1722
01:25:12,100 --> 01:25:14,300
years and I went to the 
interrogation at the end of it. 

1723
01:25:15,100 --> 01:25:16,900
Still didn't know if he did it 
and I was like, that's your big 

1724
01:25:16,907 --> 01:25:18,500
story. 
You're retired, you had 25 

1725
01:25:18,500 --> 01:25:20,900
years, you don't have a single 
confession, this kind of stuff. 

1726
01:25:20,900 --> 01:25:25,400
So I saw some really atrocious, 
as you said, sesers the seniors 

1727
01:25:25,400 --> 01:25:28,400
that were running it where you 
had stud instructors and some 

1728
01:25:28,400 --> 01:25:30,400
crappy ones, but like a lot of 
good people that had good 

1729
01:25:30,400 --> 01:25:31,000
Hearts. 
Yes. 

1730
01:25:31,000 --> 01:25:34,900
And some horrific management 
that look like they had, they 

1731
01:25:34,900 --> 01:25:36,900
had no business being in the 
same organization as those 

1732
01:25:36,900 --> 01:25:38,900
people swb. 
What is that? 

1733
01:25:38,907 --> 01:25:41,800
They were swb. 
Shopping mall, black. 

1734
01:25:42,900 --> 01:25:44,200
Guys, with the police. 
Yeah. 

1735
01:25:44,200 --> 01:25:49,600
Gwd Drive. 
Oh, the swb story, by the way, 

1736
01:25:49,600 --> 01:25:53,100
to them, basically, her husband 
going in and like deep hooding, 

1737
01:25:53,100 --> 01:25:55,200
the guys, and then they were 
like, buying chips. 

1738
01:25:55,200 --> 01:25:57,500
And he was an agent. 
I think he was a DEA agent or 

1739
01:25:57,500 --> 01:26:00,000
something horrible. 
I mean, there's just Anyway, 

1740
01:26:00,000 --> 01:26:01,900
there's a lot of bad people 
there, so it happened to be 

1741
01:26:01,907 --> 01:26:04,800
there, that assistant director 
in that section chief left about

1742
01:26:04,800 --> 01:26:08,900
the same time promoted out. 
We got Replacements that were on

1743
01:26:08,900 --> 01:26:17,100
the 0 end of the bell curve. so,
what I saw in that shift wise My

1744
01:26:17,100 --> 01:26:20,000
entry for me, got removed 
because it was, well aware that 

1745
01:26:20,000 --> 01:26:22,200
the new section chief just 
didn't like him. 

1746
01:26:22,200 --> 01:26:27,700
So, he got, he got removed and 
then a career board was forced 

1747
01:26:27,700 --> 01:26:30,700
to be reconvened to rank 
somebody that they didn't rank 

1748
01:26:30,700 --> 01:26:34,300
because that individual was 
friends with the new section. 

1749
01:26:34,300 --> 01:26:35,500
She explained what a career 
board is. 

1750
01:26:35,500 --> 01:26:37,800
So people are. 
So if you're gonna promote into 

1751
01:26:37,800 --> 01:26:42,900
a GS 14 or gs15 spot, you will 
put forth up. 

1752
01:26:42,900 --> 01:26:44,900
So a job will be posted 
internally. 

1753
01:26:44,900 --> 01:26:49,500
It'll say, the different skill 
set criteria that they want for 

1754
01:26:49,500 --> 01:26:51,400
that, and then you've got to 
write a 954. 

1755
01:26:52,100 --> 01:26:54,300
Just another government form 
where it says, Hey, right? 

1756
01:26:54,300 --> 01:26:57,500
Two examples of how amazing and 
awesome you are in this 

1757
01:26:57,500 --> 01:27:00,400
particular category could be, 
you know, leadership, 

1758
01:27:00,400 --> 01:27:03,000
communication, tactics, 
whatever. 

1759
01:27:03,000 --> 01:27:05,000
So if you're coming to Tactical 
training and it like you know 

1760
01:27:05,008 --> 01:27:07,600
tactics or Farms proficiency is 
probably going to be one of 

1761
01:27:07,600 --> 01:27:10,500
them. 
So this individual and I'm not 

1762
01:27:10,508 --> 01:27:12,400
going to say the individual was 
a bad person because I didn't 

1763
01:27:12,400 --> 01:27:15,700
know him but they individual had
no qualification for coming to a

1764
01:27:15,700 --> 01:27:19,900
tactical training unit where you
need to have experience. 

1765
01:27:19,900 --> 01:27:23,100
Because you gotta you gotta be 
able to teach from a position of

1766
01:27:23,100 --> 01:27:26,600
authority, right? 
Like You know, I went out on a 

1767
01:27:26,600 --> 01:27:29,100
search warrant wants is not a 
position of authority, you know 

1768
01:27:29,100 --> 01:27:31,700
that you know I plan 50 of SWAT 
team leader. 

1769
01:27:31,700 --> 01:27:35,000
You know I was drugged agent, I 
was violent crime, I was on DHS 

1770
01:27:35,000 --> 01:27:39,600
commercial, she's just whatever.
Puts you in a position of 

1771
01:27:39,600 --> 01:27:42,500
authority to teach as a subject 
matter, export on the topic. 

1772
01:27:43,400 --> 01:27:45,600
So, this individual was not 
ranked. 

1773
01:27:45,600 --> 01:27:48,400
So when I say ranked, so when 
those packets come through, 

1774
01:27:48,400 --> 01:27:52,500
they'll pull a group of peers. 
So like if he's at the bottom, 

1775
01:27:53,300 --> 01:27:56,700
Yeah, so if you're if you're 
competing for a GS 14 spot like 

1776
01:27:56,700 --> 01:27:59,700
three, other GS 14 within that 
unit or going to be put on the 

1777
01:27:59,700 --> 01:28:01,400
crew aboard. 
They're going to read all those 

1778
01:28:01,400 --> 01:28:02,400
applicants. 
Yeah. 

1779
01:28:02,400 --> 01:28:07,500
And they're gonna rank the ones 
that they want considered for 

1780
01:28:07,500 --> 01:28:09,800
the position. 
They don't have to rank them 

1781
01:28:09,800 --> 01:28:11,000
all. 
They don't have to rank any, I 

1782
01:28:11,000 --> 01:28:12,700
have to take any. 
So anyway, let's say for 

1783
01:28:12,700 --> 01:28:14,800
arguments say three people put 
in. 

1784
01:28:15,700 --> 01:28:20,200
Two of them were ranked for an 
unknown number of funded open 

1785
01:28:20,200 --> 01:28:23,500
positions. 
This individual was not right 

1786
01:28:23,500 --> 01:28:26,000
because they didn't have the 
base level qualifications, 

1787
01:28:26,000 --> 01:28:28,100
they'd worked 
counterintelligence or Intel 

1788
01:28:28,100 --> 01:28:31,000
their entire career had never 
plan on arrest or Etc. 

1789
01:28:31,000 --> 01:28:37,700
So but they like to eat like 
Microsoft Sorry, just climbing 

1790
01:28:37,700 --> 01:28:40,300
your mouth. 
No, I just said that they were 

1791
01:28:40,300 --> 01:28:46,000
not ranked but they got a 
microphone that's yeah that's 

1792
01:28:46,000 --> 01:28:55,100
not what I was going with that. 
I mean, I'll let you know me 

1793
01:28:55,100 --> 01:29:00,700
because this Army so like slowly
Yeah, it's just. 

1794
01:29:00,700 --> 01:29:03,600
All right. 
Do you want to take this up a 

1795
01:29:03,600 --> 01:29:06,000
little bit so you can do less 
squatting because I'm trying to 

1796
01:29:06,008 --> 01:29:07,500
be at your guys. 
I know it's amazing. 

1797
01:29:07,500 --> 01:29:12,300
I want to the frame here, we're 
not, nobody can see me. 

1798
01:29:12,308 --> 01:29:16,600
Zach is standing at like a low, 
squat lunge for the entire time 

1799
01:29:16,600 --> 01:29:18,900
that he's been talking to us, 
like an absolute stud. 

1800
01:29:18,900 --> 01:29:21,600
He's doing like a mixture of 
like a catcher where he's kind 

1801
01:29:21,600 --> 01:29:23,200
of like, got the low squat, on 
both legs out. 

1802
01:29:23,200 --> 01:29:24,600
And then he's doing the Stagger 
step. 

1803
01:29:24,600 --> 01:29:28,100
So, you're gonna have like 
serious quad ISO, you know, 

1804
01:29:28,100 --> 01:29:30,400
isometric ABR. 
Yeah, always be ready. 

1805
01:29:30,400 --> 01:29:33,500
Oh, it's just a little bit. 
All right. 

1806
01:29:33,508 --> 01:29:41,700
So getting back to like my first
films at the false advertising 

1807
01:29:41,700 --> 01:29:43,700
in the bureau from the 
standpoint of. 

1808
01:29:43,700 --> 01:29:46,000
Thank you for coming for the 
comment. 

1809
01:29:46,000 --> 01:29:50,400
Oh, you know, excellent. 
So I'm getting my first real. 

1810
01:29:50,400 --> 01:29:52,500
Look at some of the issues 
within executive management of 

1811
01:29:52,500 --> 01:29:56,000
the bureau. 
So, I am not on again it's you 

1812
01:29:56,000 --> 01:29:59,100
know, not me but my peers are 
being forced to reconvene a 

1813
01:29:59,100 --> 01:30:03,300
career board with you will write
that person was that person? 

1814
01:30:03,300 --> 01:30:05,600
Asian Know, but it was a 
minority. 

1815
01:30:05,600 --> 01:30:07,900
Okay. 
Um, it's not who I thought 

1816
01:30:07,900 --> 01:30:10,700
that's all. 
So then it's a, you know, okay, 

1817
01:30:10,700 --> 01:30:13,200
you guys are gonna rank it but, 
you know, we're not gonna we 

1818
01:30:13,200 --> 01:30:16,900
understand that they're not 
qualified for TTU tactical 

1819
01:30:16,900 --> 01:30:19,500
training unit. 
So we'll just put them somewhere

1820
01:30:19,500 --> 01:30:21,300
else in the academy. 
We don't want to redo. 

1821
01:30:21,300 --> 01:30:27,700
So again, the the agents the GS 
14 is my peers were like this 

1822
01:30:27,700 --> 01:30:32,800
doesn't smell good, but Okay, 
because it gets to the, where do

1823
01:30:32,800 --> 01:30:34,000
I fight? 
What am I fighting? 

1824
01:30:34,000 --> 01:30:37,100
I'm effectively being told like 
you will do XYZ. 

1825
01:30:37,100 --> 01:30:38,900
Yeah. 
Is that illegal know? 

1826
01:30:38,900 --> 01:30:41,000
Is it? 
Is it wrong? 

1827
01:30:41,000 --> 01:30:44,800
Yes. 
They rank this individual and lo

1828
01:30:44,800 --> 01:30:46,700
and behold the individual comes 
to Tactical training in it. 

1829
01:30:46,708 --> 01:30:50,500
But now, the next thing is well 
to be an instructor and tactical

1830
01:30:50,500 --> 01:30:53,800
training and you now have to be 
a certified FBI tactical 

1831
01:30:53,800 --> 01:30:57,300
instructor and there's now a 
policy and a program to go 

1832
01:30:57,300 --> 01:31:01,100
through where you're going to 
have a Certification course, but

1833
01:31:01,100 --> 01:31:03,200
it's not an instructional course
because again it's supposed to 

1834
01:31:03,200 --> 01:31:04,900
be certifying, somebody that's 
got a lot of technical 

1835
01:31:04,900 --> 01:31:07,200
experience. 
A lot of farms experience on. 

1836
01:31:07,200 --> 01:31:10,600
Yes, they can teach their 
proficient and they can teach 

1837
01:31:12,000 --> 01:31:15,900
individual doesn't pass. 
So then the GS4 team supervisor 

1838
01:31:15,900 --> 01:31:18,500
specialty it's over. 
That program is said oh no. 

1839
01:31:19,800 --> 01:31:24,700
He will pass. and my peer and my
friend is like, Sure. 

1840
01:31:24,700 --> 01:31:28,200
He passes the test. 
Doesn't pass the test. 

1841
01:31:29,600 --> 01:31:32,500
So what's the solution from an 
FBI executive management that 

1842
01:31:32,500 --> 01:31:34,300
person is the problem that 
person's the problem. 

1843
01:31:34,300 --> 01:31:36,500
We need to remove the roadblock 
and find somebody that will give

1844
01:31:36,508 --> 01:31:38,500
me the yes. 
So anyway, he gets removed with 

1845
01:31:38,500 --> 01:31:40,900
so that the first real time that
you'd seen that up close. 

1846
01:31:40,900 --> 01:31:44,600
Yes, it was and man, did it give
me a hard time and I am not 

1847
01:31:44,600 --> 01:31:49,500
usually one to hold my tongue, I
had spoken my mind with the 

1848
01:31:49,500 --> 01:31:51,500
section chief when our unit 
Chief was removed and I was 

1849
01:31:51,500 --> 01:31:55,700
like, Sir, let me express to you
the perspective that I believe 

1850
01:31:55,700 --> 01:31:59,300
my peers and I go you have a 
problem with this unit. 

1851
01:32:00,400 --> 01:32:02,100
And you're punishing our unit 
chief. 

1852
01:32:02,800 --> 01:32:05,200
Now, if you're going to remove 
our unit, if you've got a bunch 

1853
01:32:05,208 --> 01:32:09,700
of senior GS4 teens in here, you
should be pulling one of us up, 

1854
01:32:09,700 --> 01:32:14,600
be the acting unit Chief and 
developing us to become a GS 15.

1855
01:32:14,600 --> 01:32:17,600
The response was like I had no 
problem with this unit. 

1856
01:32:17,600 --> 01:32:20,200
I'm not punishing anybody. 
I need his skill set over there 

1857
01:32:20,200 --> 01:32:25,000
and yeah you guys are senior 
just for teens, but we really 

1858
01:32:25,000 --> 01:32:27,800
need somebody with XYZ 
experience which is what I'm 

1859
01:32:27,800 --> 01:32:31,900
bringing in from outside your 
unit and you wasn't true. 

1860
01:32:31,900 --> 01:32:33,500
Yeah, I mean it's a total weight
of all. 

1861
01:32:33,500 --> 01:32:36,400
So anyway, yes call that was my 
first real experience with the 

1862
01:32:37,300 --> 01:32:40,000
Shenanigans that happen within 
the bureau from executive 

1863
01:32:40,000 --> 01:32:42,700
management. 
So I have this it's not 

1864
01:32:42,700 --> 01:32:44,700
happening to me directly but 
it's wrong. 

1865
01:32:44,700 --> 01:32:46,900
Yeah, it's wrong. 
You know what happened? 

1866
01:32:46,900 --> 01:32:48,800
It's your first look at it. 
Yes. 

1867
01:32:48,800 --> 01:32:53,300
And when that happens and I'll 
just share mine, you have a 

1868
01:32:53,300 --> 01:32:54,900
little bit of Doubt where you're
like that I miss something. 

1869
01:32:54,900 --> 01:32:58,500
Am I not reading the situation 
completely and I'm pretty sure 

1870
01:32:58,500 --> 01:33:01,100
that I'm right. 
But you're not like I'm gonna go

1871
01:33:01,100 --> 01:33:04,300
in guns blazing on it. 
Did you did you kind of watch 

1872
01:33:04,300 --> 01:33:07,800
this one or have a moderated 
response compared to maybe I use

1873
01:33:07,800 --> 01:33:11,200
the phone friend option. 
Okay, so I good option. 

1874
01:33:11,200 --> 01:33:17,700
That's so I called the former 
add that had hired me for 

1875
01:33:17,700 --> 01:33:22,000
Training Division who had just 
recently retired and I said, Hey

1876
01:33:22,000 --> 01:33:27,000
sir, I'm seeing this it's not me
I'm not on the career board I'm 

1877
01:33:27,000 --> 01:33:30,200
not the program manager for the 
Tactical instructor 

1878
01:33:30,200 --> 01:33:34,200
certification but I trust these 
guys this is real information 

1879
01:33:34,200 --> 01:33:39,300
and this is wrong. his response 
to me, was Zack. 

1880
01:33:39,300 --> 01:33:42,300
You have already been selected 
for your ra Quarter Lane. 

1881
01:33:42,300 --> 01:33:45,900
You're going to be leaving soon,
there is no such thing as 

1882
01:33:45,900 --> 01:33:48,900
Anonymous in the FBI, keep your 
mouth shut. 

1883
01:33:49,700 --> 01:33:53,600
Go out, do good work. 
As your leader in the SSR, a 

1884
01:33:53,600 --> 01:33:58,400
position in Coeur, d'Alene and 
Press on with life. 

1885
01:33:58,400 --> 01:34:01,300
How did that sit with you? 
It's still sets poorly with me 

1886
01:34:01,300 --> 01:34:04,400
because I did what he suggested,
I get my mouth shut because it's

1887
01:34:04,400 --> 01:34:07,400
like, how do I report this? 
This isn't like, it's all 

1888
01:34:07,400 --> 01:34:09,600
hearsay for me. 
That's not uncommon though. 

1889
01:34:09,600 --> 01:34:11,600
And that's the thing that people
have to understand too because I

1890
01:34:11,600 --> 01:34:13,300
want most people like, most 
people think that they're going 

1891
01:34:13,300 --> 01:34:14,500
to do the right thing. 
Exactly. 

1892
01:34:14,500 --> 01:34:15,700
Right. 
When it happens, they're gonna 

1893
01:34:15,700 --> 01:34:16,500
go. 
Oh sure. 

1894
01:34:16,500 --> 01:34:19,200
I saw something wrong. 
And I'm gonna stand against it 

1895
01:34:19,200 --> 01:34:21,600
and it usually takes a couple of
things to create a pattern. 

1896
01:34:21,600 --> 01:34:24,600
What you see is an isolated 
incident, you go like That's 

1897
01:34:24,600 --> 01:34:25,800
weird. 
Yeah, yeah. 

1898
01:34:25,800 --> 01:34:28,300
Um Maybe it's not somewhere 
else. 

1899
01:34:28,300 --> 01:34:31,700
Maybe this is not pervasive, you
know, again that first exposure 

1900
01:34:31,700 --> 01:34:34,100
to it, it is a shock, but it 
doesn't necessarily spur you 

1901
01:34:34,100 --> 01:34:35,400
into action. 
And I think most people don't 

1902
01:34:35,400 --> 01:34:37,700
have a lot of empathy for that 
position. 

1903
01:34:37,700 --> 01:34:42,900
I have a lot of empathy for what
you just said. so fast forward 

1904
01:34:42,900 --> 01:34:46,600
into a comment that my very 
insightful wife gave me at the 

1905
01:34:48,900 --> 01:34:51,400
When I was first walked out of 
the quarterly on office before I

1906
01:34:51,400 --> 01:34:56,300
was ultimately fired, she said 
Zach, you know, when you fall on

1907
01:34:56,300 --> 01:34:58,300
your sword in real life, it cuts
you. 

1908
01:34:58,300 --> 01:35:02,400
So thinking that, oh I would 
stand up for wrongdoing. 

1909
01:35:04,400 --> 01:35:06,100
A lot of things it's easier said
than done. 

1910
01:35:06,100 --> 01:35:07,900
All right. 
So anyway, I see that. 

1911
01:35:07,900 --> 01:35:12,900
I heed the advice of my friend 
and one of my mentors and I keep

1912
01:35:12,900 --> 01:35:14,900
my mouth shut. 
I know other guys report it, 

1913
01:35:14,900 --> 01:35:18,300
nothing ever happens. 
That section chief ends up going

1914
01:35:18,300 --> 01:35:20,700
on to become an sac. 
And then an assistant director 

1915
01:35:20,700 --> 01:35:25,700
and is a 100 percent, 
categorical zero. 

1916
01:35:26,500 --> 01:35:31,100
He's retired now, so has zero, 
the retired zero that retired 

1917
01:35:31,100 --> 01:35:34,500
look at that. 
So uh I in the midst of all, 

1918
01:35:34,500 --> 01:35:37,500
this I had developed. 
So, my father had a heart attack

1919
01:35:37,500 --> 01:35:43,000
late 2016, that's one, I was in 
Billings Rae on a hardship when 

1920
01:35:43,000 --> 01:35:46,900
I put in for the TTU position. 
And I got to know the ssra there

1921
01:35:46,900 --> 01:35:50,600
at the time phenomenal guy. 
He's now retired, he and I are 

1922
01:35:50,600 --> 01:35:54,300
still friends and he's like, But
I need you to come out and 

1923
01:35:54,300 --> 01:35:57,400
replace me out here as the ssra 
in Billings. 

1924
01:35:57,400 --> 01:36:00,100
And I was like, man, you know, 
Billings is not my favorite 

1925
01:36:00,100 --> 01:36:03,200
place in Montana, but it's 
closer to the mountains than 

1926
01:36:03,200 --> 01:36:06,500
Virginia Virginia Virginia, like
a lot. 

1927
01:36:06,500 --> 01:36:09,400
I almost went to Billings, you 
know, that I went to. 

1928
01:36:09,400 --> 01:36:12,800
I had two options you dodged, a 
bullet, I almost went to I'm 

1929
01:36:12,800 --> 01:36:14,500
well and lose. 
I got the same thing. 

1930
01:36:14,500 --> 01:36:20,300
The bullet still hit me so long 
short of it was on my okay, 

1931
01:36:20,300 --> 01:36:22,900
what? 
But the timing of his position 

1932
01:36:22,900 --> 01:36:28,000
posting we thought I was in the 
window and I wasn't so it posted

1933
01:36:28,000 --> 01:36:31,300
too early. 
I couldn't put in for it, I 

1934
01:36:31,300 --> 01:36:35,700
happened to be down in Richmond 
Division and I had a very good 

1935
01:36:35,700 --> 01:36:38,700
rapport with a good management 
team that was down there and I 

1936
01:36:38,700 --> 01:36:41,300
walked in the sec's office 
special agent Jared Richmond 

1937
01:36:41,300 --> 01:36:43,600
office and I said, you know hey 
boss, what's going on? 

1938
01:36:43,600 --> 01:36:45,900
Like what are you doing? 
And I was like well I mean 

1939
01:36:45,907 --> 01:36:49,900
working on my exit was gonna go 
for the Billings ssra but they 

1940
01:36:49,907 --> 01:36:53,200
posted it too soon and he's like
why didn't you tell me you're A 

1941
01:36:53,200 --> 01:36:55,100
moron. 
Like I know all the sacs. 

1942
01:36:55,100 --> 01:36:57,100
Like why didn't you tell me you 
were trying to get a position? 

1943
01:36:57,100 --> 01:37:00,300
Like I So, he tells me to shut 
up. 

1944
01:37:00,300 --> 01:37:03,200
He picks up the phone calls, the
sac out, in Salt Lake, and he's 

1945
01:37:03,200 --> 01:37:05,400
like, hey, I got this agent, 
he's phenomenal. 

1946
01:37:05,400 --> 01:37:09,700
Obviously, this is a liar, but 
I've got this phenomenal guy. 

1947
01:37:09,700 --> 01:37:11,300
He wanted to get a desk out 
there. 

1948
01:37:11,300 --> 01:37:16,700
This building posted to early 
can we, you know, can we do 

1949
01:37:16,700 --> 01:37:18,000
anything? 
And he's like, no, it's already 

1950
01:37:18,000 --> 01:37:19,000
been a clear board. 
I'm sorry. 

1951
01:37:19,000 --> 01:37:24,100
But I'll kind of I will pass 
that out there that there's a 

1952
01:37:24,100 --> 01:37:27,000
guy that, you know, is looking 
for 14 spot and kind of keep the

1953
01:37:27,000 --> 01:37:30,300
word out so long and short of 
that story is I subsequently get

1954
01:37:30,300 --> 01:37:34,000
notification that the Coeur, 
d'Alene Idaho, ssra supervisory,

1955
01:37:34,000 --> 01:37:38,000
senior resident, agent desk is 
gonna host It'll be in my 

1956
01:37:38,000 --> 01:37:41,300
eligibility window. 
I compete with 10 or 11 other 

1957
01:37:41,300 --> 01:37:43,900
people and they hire me for the 
position. 

1958
01:37:43,900 --> 01:37:46,600
We go through that big 
government shutdown in January. 

1959
01:37:46,600 --> 01:37:48,100
2019. 
That was fun. 

1960
01:37:48,100 --> 01:37:51,700
Delays my orders. 
But still anyway, I get out 

1961
01:37:51,700 --> 01:37:52,800
there. 
I move. 

1962
01:37:54,600 --> 01:38:00,900
I am I want to get there. 
I think I'm 41 ish 40 or 41 when

1963
01:38:00,900 --> 01:38:01,600
I get there. 
Yep. 

1964
01:38:01,600 --> 01:38:06,700
And so you can sit a stationary 
supervisory desk for seven years

1965
01:38:06,700 --> 01:38:10,400
maximum. 
So I can't ride that off to 51. 

1966
01:38:10,400 --> 01:38:13,800
I could retire. 
But you know, all of us that 

1967
01:38:13,800 --> 01:38:15,700
have been in the Bureau of 
experience those supervisors 

1968
01:38:15,700 --> 01:38:18,100
come through where, you know, 
they're going to check that box.

1969
01:38:18,100 --> 01:38:21,600
So they're going to do 18 to 24 
months, you know, as a 

1970
01:38:21,600 --> 01:38:23,700
supervisor they're going to 
knock out all their inspections 

1971
01:38:23,700 --> 01:38:27,000
and they're going to quickly try
to promote up to ASAP on their 

1972
01:38:27,000 --> 01:38:29,200
way up the chain. 
In other words, it's just a base

1973
01:38:29,200 --> 01:38:31,300
they're touching and they're 
going around they're still going

1974
01:38:31,300 --> 01:38:33,300
around. 
The base is the different kind 

1975
01:38:33,300 --> 01:38:34,700
is what you're talking about who
find? 

1976
01:38:34,700 --> 01:38:37,000
That's the job at wanna go. 
Do I want to supervise the squad

1977
01:38:37,000 --> 01:38:38,500
doing work? 
And they try to stay there as 

1978
01:38:38,500 --> 01:38:39,700
long as possible this. 
Yep. 

1979
01:38:39,700 --> 01:38:44,300
So I made it clear that, you 
know, Maybe I do an inspection, 

1980
01:38:44,300 --> 01:38:46,500
maybe I wouldn't, I ultimately 
never did. 

1981
01:38:46,500 --> 01:38:49,600
But That's where I wanted to be.
I wanted to raise my family 

1982
01:38:49,600 --> 01:38:53,000
there, my wife very quickly got 
hired on as a prosecutor there 

1983
01:38:53,000 --> 01:38:58,800
because she'd been a prosecutor 
in Virginia I moved. 

1984
01:38:58,800 --> 01:39:00,500
So, my father continued to have 
health issues. 

1985
01:39:00,500 --> 01:39:03,300
I bought a place where I could 
build an apartment for him at 

1986
01:39:03,300 --> 01:39:05,800
home and he could live with me. 
So we did that. 

1987
01:39:05,800 --> 01:39:08,400
And it was, you know, all part 
of the grand life plan. 

1988
01:39:08,400 --> 01:39:10,600
Right? 
You know, I can do five, maybe 

1989
01:39:10,600 --> 01:39:13,500
seven years, I'll step down. 
Go back to doing real fun work 

1990
01:39:13,500 --> 01:39:20,900
but my mentality was that I 
wanted to approach that position

1991
01:39:20,900 --> 01:39:23,900
from leadership like in theory, 
you go out to an ssra position 

1992
01:39:23,900 --> 01:39:27,400
like you're a long ways from the
flagpole and it should be all 

1993
01:39:27,400 --> 01:39:31,100
about getting the work done and 
you can lead and not just 

1994
01:39:31,100 --> 01:39:34,900
managed. 
I had a very mixed bag of folks 

1995
01:39:34,900 --> 01:39:38,700
so I had the Quarter Lane Lewis 
and rs resident agencies, I had 

1996
01:39:38,700 --> 01:39:41,300
some really hard Chargers, I had
some not real hard Chargers. 

1997
01:39:41,300 --> 01:39:45,800
I learned a lot of Leadership 
Lessons there that we could save

1998
01:39:45,800 --> 01:39:47,500
for a different conversation. 
As far as like, you know, 

1999
01:39:47,500 --> 01:39:49,800
concepts of leadership 
leadership, development is the 

2000
01:39:49,808 --> 01:39:52,300
Bureau teaches that stuff. 
It's all OJT. 

2001
01:39:53,200 --> 01:39:56,900
All right, so to fast forward. 
So I had been there for several 

2002
01:39:56,900 --> 01:39:59,400
years. 
There were two issues that I'd 

2003
01:39:59,400 --> 01:40:00,600
been warned about before I got 
there. 

2004
01:40:00,600 --> 01:40:03,200
That should be addressed. 
We had a violent crime task 

2005
01:40:03,200 --> 01:40:08,800
force, that did very little 
Federal work but the bureau 

2006
01:40:08,800 --> 01:40:12,700
still spent 250,000 dollars a 
year on it and then we had a US 

2007
01:40:12,700 --> 01:40:17,900
attorney's office that took very
few prosecutions so in show up 

2008
01:40:17,900 --> 01:40:21,200
its know everybody he's start 
putting a plan together and how 

2009
01:40:21,200 --> 01:40:22,900
to address those two issues and 
that's what I did. 

2010
01:40:22,900 --> 01:40:27,500
I had folks that thought I was a
phenomenal supervisor and I 

2011
01:40:27,508 --> 01:40:31,100
thought that I was not a good 
supervisor and I had some 

2012
01:40:31,100 --> 01:40:33,100
between like I was on the bell 
curve not. 

2013
01:40:33,100 --> 01:40:36,400
I was and I think I say that 
just for the reality of Not 

2014
01:40:36,400 --> 01:40:39,700
everybody was a fan of SSO. 
Recent show was in the Army. 

2015
01:40:39,700 --> 01:40:41,400
I had folks that thought I was 
great. 

2016
01:40:41,400 --> 01:40:44,900
I would argue that they were the
best agent so I had in my mantra

2017
01:40:44,900 --> 01:40:47,600
today. 
Them was, you know, here's your 

2018
01:40:47,600 --> 01:40:49,600
left and right limits. 
Go forth. 

2019
01:40:49,600 --> 01:40:52,100
I expect you to go forth and 
Conquer and do good things. 

2020
01:40:52,100 --> 01:40:55,800
I will have your back. 
Stay within these lines. 

2021
01:40:55,800 --> 01:40:58,300
If you screw up, I will be 
standing there with you. 

2022
01:40:58,300 --> 01:41:01,200
And I'll take the black. 
Fortunately, nobody ever really 

2023
01:41:01,200 --> 01:41:03,600
got any big trouble there. 
But like, they were running down

2024
01:41:03,600 --> 01:41:06,800
and having a great time, the 
folks that were not running and 

2025
01:41:06,800 --> 01:41:08,700
gun and or that I was struggling
with. 

2026
01:41:09,700 --> 01:41:11,600
I am a person that will have 
those very difficult 

2027
01:41:11,600 --> 01:41:15,000
conversations of You said you 
were going to do this on your 

2028
01:41:15,008 --> 01:41:17,600
performance plan? 
You didn't do any of them. 

2029
01:41:17,600 --> 01:41:20,900
How do I rate you as meeting the
standards? 

2030
01:41:20,900 --> 01:41:23,100
When you don't perform anything 
that you say, you're going to 

2031
01:41:23,100 --> 01:41:25,000
perform, those are difficult 
conversations. 

2032
01:41:25,000 --> 01:41:27,800
And it's hard for anybody to 
leave that conversation and feel

2033
01:41:27,800 --> 01:41:29,700
like that supervisor is awesome,
right? 

2034
01:41:29,700 --> 01:41:34,100
It's more of That dude's a dick.
Yeah. 

2035
01:41:34,100 --> 01:41:35,900
And as a supervisor, that's 
gotta be tough too. 

2036
01:41:35,900 --> 01:41:37,700
It is because you're like, look,
I don't want to rape people 

2037
01:41:37,700 --> 01:41:40,300
poorly know, but it's not only 
do it. 

2038
01:41:40,308 --> 01:41:43,100
It's doubly tough and you're the
SRA because I have no peers 

2039
01:41:43,100 --> 01:41:46,600
right out there, it's just me. 
Like there are no other GS4 

2040
01:41:46,600 --> 01:41:49,800
teams for me to go and hang out 
with, with were there more than 

2041
01:41:49,808 --> 01:41:52,400
one Squad, but only one, you're 
the only 14, or was it? 

2042
01:41:52,400 --> 01:41:55,200
There was one. 
So both ours were all just under

2043
01:41:55,200 --> 01:41:58,400
the Quarter Lane at all Squad. 
And that's kind of, well, that's

2044
01:41:58,400 --> 01:42:00,600
probably more common for some 
rais, but somebody's will 

2045
01:42:00,600 --> 01:42:02,300
actually have two swabs will 
have more than one 14. 

2046
01:42:02,300 --> 01:42:05,700
So you got like a peer, you're 
like, you know, you're first 

2047
01:42:05,700 --> 01:42:07,800
among equals. 
Certainly you can talk and you 

2048
01:42:07,800 --> 01:42:10,400
have like, hey, I'm seeing this.
It's just you just me. 

2049
01:42:10,400 --> 01:42:13,900
Yeah, my closest pier was down 
in Boise, which is one of those 

2050
01:42:13,900 --> 01:42:17,000
areas where there was a criminal
ssra, and then you had a 

2051
01:42:17,000 --> 01:42:19,500
national security, SSA doing 
great. 

2052
01:42:20,700 --> 01:42:21,400
Criminal. 
Yes. 

2053
01:42:22,300 --> 01:42:26,300
And SB supervisor had some, had 
some issues that will come right

2054
01:42:26,300 --> 01:42:28,800
here in a minute. 
All right, so I've been there 

2055
01:42:28,800 --> 01:42:31,600
for several years. 
There was some interesting 

2056
01:42:31,600 --> 01:42:36,400
personalities within the law 
enforcement community, We had, 

2057
01:42:36,400 --> 01:42:40,700
you know, when I first got there
that the sheriff of the county 

2058
01:42:40,700 --> 01:42:43,800
that sits around Coeur, d'Alene 
could not be in the same 

2059
01:42:43,800 --> 01:42:46,400
Kootenai County, could not be in
the same room as the Coeur. 

2060
01:42:46,400 --> 01:42:47,800
D'Alene police chief and vice 
versa. 

2061
01:42:47,800 --> 01:42:51,700
Oh wow. 
They were on speaking terms the 

2062
01:42:51,700 --> 01:42:54,700
US attorney's office had three a
USA's in their Quarter, Lane 

2063
01:42:54,700 --> 01:42:57,500
branch office once considered a 
supervisor, reposition or branch

2064
01:42:57,500 --> 01:43:00,300
manager. 
There were she was known for 

2065
01:43:00,300 --> 01:43:03,200
bringing state and local 
officials into that office and 

2066
01:43:03,200 --> 01:43:04,700
screaming at them. 
So, there were some, you know, 

2067
01:43:04,708 --> 01:43:09,400
non-communicative relationships 
going on there too, and you have

2068
01:43:09,400 --> 01:43:11,800
liaison and these agencies, 
right? 

2069
01:43:11,800 --> 01:43:14,400
So the state agencies are the 
Sheriff's Office, you have Elias

2070
01:43:14,400 --> 01:43:17,300
on the worked in there that were
trained by the FBI that would be

2071
01:43:17,300 --> 01:43:21,800
in those know, I mean, part of 
being the ssra is you're the 

2072
01:43:21,800 --> 01:43:23,100
liaison. 
So you gotta have those 

2073
01:43:23,100 --> 01:43:26,700
Partnerships, you know, I in in 
a perfect world, it would be 

2074
01:43:26,700 --> 01:43:29,700
with the chief for the sheriff, 
with the reality of it is 

2075
01:43:29,700 --> 01:43:31,900
particularly in a place, like 
North Idaho, where the bureau is

2076
01:43:31,907 --> 01:43:34,700
not always looked upon in a 
favorable, right? 

2077
01:43:35,600 --> 01:43:39,800
Um, you know, and Ruby Ridge is 
still like a talking point in 

2078
01:43:39,800 --> 01:43:41,900
most Sheriff elections up there.
Yeah. 

2079
01:43:41,900 --> 01:43:46,500
I didn't always develop a 
relationship with the sheriff 

2080
01:43:46,500 --> 01:43:49,000
because maybe the sheriff wants 
to keep the FBI at arm's length.

2081
01:43:49,000 --> 01:43:50,500
And I can understand that I can 
understand why. 

2082
01:43:50,500 --> 01:43:53,300
Because there are, there are 
politician they have to get 

2083
01:43:53,300 --> 01:43:57,100
elected. 
So I would work and build 

2084
01:43:57,108 --> 01:43:58,900
relationships wherever I could 
build relationships. 

2085
01:44:00,300 --> 01:44:04,600
Regardless, it was just, I'd 
never quite seen a law 

2086
01:44:04,600 --> 01:44:06,600
enforcement like that. 
And I say that haven't worked in

2087
01:44:06,600 --> 01:44:10,800
Richmond Virginia, which was the
capital of Confederacy, the city

2088
01:44:10,800 --> 01:44:15,000
of Richmond is 85%. 
African-American, there's just 

2089
01:44:15,000 --> 01:44:17,600
very interesting Dynamics in 
that area. 

2090
01:44:18,800 --> 01:44:21,100
Hailed in comparison to some of 
the Dynamics said was in North 

2091
01:44:21,108 --> 01:44:25,700
Idaho regardless pushing forward
and kind of get into the the 

2092
01:44:25,700 --> 01:44:27,400
meat and potatoes of our 
conversation for today. 

2093
01:44:28,400 --> 01:44:33,500
In 2000 or 2022. 
So coming off the heels of 

2094
01:44:33,500 --> 01:44:35,800
covid. 
Coming off the heels of the 

2095
01:44:35,800 --> 01:44:41,000
black lives matter protests, 
Coeur d'Alene had had during the

2096
01:44:41,000 --> 01:44:44,300
black lives matter protest what 
they referred to as gun delaying

2097
01:44:44,300 --> 01:44:48,000
which is take your guns for a 
walk and downtown Portland. 

2098
01:44:48,000 --> 01:44:51,200
So that Tifa doesn't come and 
burn the town down. 

2099
01:44:51,200 --> 01:44:54,300
And I think for perspective for 
your audience, I can't 

2100
01:44:54,308 --> 01:45:00,100
necessarily rationalize this but
for North idahoans There is 

2101
01:45:00,100 --> 01:45:03,500
nothing scarier than the idea 
that antifa is going to come to 

2102
01:45:03,500 --> 01:45:06,000
your town and going to turn it 
to dust. 

2103
01:45:06,000 --> 01:45:10,000
And there was just that constant
Rumor Mill of there's going to 

2104
01:45:10,008 --> 01:45:13,300
be a truckload of antifa coming 
to Sandpoint Idaho. 

2105
01:45:14,300 --> 01:45:16,000
Bonners Ferry Idaho. 
Yeah. 

2106
01:45:16,000 --> 01:45:19,300
Places that folks that are in 
antifa probably have never never

2107
01:45:19,300 --> 01:45:21,400
heard of it. 
They're gonna bring Seattle and 

2108
01:45:21,400 --> 01:45:23,200
Portland with them and they're 
gonna Burn It To The Ground. 

2109
01:45:23,200 --> 01:45:25,400
Yeah. 
So in Quarter Lane, the natural 

2110
01:45:25,400 --> 01:45:28,600
response was armed citizenry. 
And in Idaho, you know, open 

2111
01:45:28,600 --> 01:45:31,600
carry is very, very much legal, 
if not encouraged. 

2112
01:45:31,600 --> 01:45:35,500
And, you know, Google it, you'll
see images of folks, walking 

2113
01:45:35,500 --> 01:45:40,800
their guns down Sherman Avenue. 
all right, so 2022. 

2114
01:45:40,800 --> 01:45:45,900
There is a plan to lgbtq Pride 
event in the city park in June. 

2115
01:45:46,800 --> 01:45:52,500
We had been like some public 
spats back and forth between 

2116
01:45:52,500 --> 01:45:57,400
groups that were opposing, the 
lgbtq movement or making some 

2117
01:45:58,400 --> 01:46:01,300
Fairly outrageous, you know, 
comments to the media and on 

2118
01:46:01,300 --> 01:46:04,900
their social media feeds you 
know, we were also we the FBI 

2119
01:46:04,900 --> 01:46:07,600
and law enforcement was becoming
aware of other chatter but none 

2120
01:46:07,600 --> 01:46:11,300
of it was specific and probably 
only focus that are in law 

2121
01:46:11,300 --> 01:46:12,700
enforcement in the bureau can 
understand the difference 

2122
01:46:12,700 --> 01:46:17,100
between like a specific threat 
and a generalized threat, we 

2123
01:46:17,100 --> 01:46:20,600
didn't have a specific threat 
against an individual, or 

2124
01:46:20,600 --> 01:46:24,200
against a group. 
Either way, we had comments 

2125
01:46:24,200 --> 01:46:26,700
about armed, drag queens that 
we're going to show up and we 

2126
01:46:26,700 --> 01:46:29,400
had comments from, you know, if 
they want, you know, if the 

2127
01:46:29,400 --> 01:46:32,600
lgbtq movement wants award, let 
it be here kind of a deal. 

2128
01:46:32,600 --> 01:46:38,300
So we were blister. 
Yeah, so the My office was doing

2129
01:46:38,300 --> 01:46:42,700
what the FBI do, which is share 
that information within policy 

2130
01:46:42,700 --> 01:46:45,300
with the people that need to 
know that the Sheriff's Office, 

2131
01:46:45,300 --> 01:46:47,800
the police department. 
So, the Court Lane Police 

2132
01:46:47,800 --> 01:46:50,300
Department stands up a command 
post and his effectively all 

2133
01:46:50,300 --> 01:46:55,900
hands on deck for that event. 
There is the counter eventually 

2134
01:46:55,900 --> 01:46:57,100
called gun. 
Delaine 2. 

2135
01:46:57,100 --> 01:46:59,800
They changed that to North Idaho
to prayer. 

2136
01:46:59,800 --> 01:47:04,000
You know, lgbtq events. 
I was asked to be in the command

2137
01:47:04,000 --> 01:47:07,500
post, I was and give them that 
we didn't have any specific 

2138
01:47:07,500 --> 01:47:10,600
threats. 
I didn't have any of my folks 

2139
01:47:10,600 --> 01:47:12,800
working that day, but I had 
asked several of them not to 

2140
01:47:12,800 --> 01:47:15,000
drink. 
In case something happened, I 

2141
01:47:15,000 --> 01:47:18,400
could recall the man but that I 
would be in the command post 

2142
01:47:18,400 --> 01:47:21,800
with my peers and I'd be sharing
information out and if they got 

2143
01:47:21,800 --> 01:47:24,700
information from a former or 
something like that, get it to 

2144
01:47:24,700 --> 01:47:25,900
me and I'll share it 
appropriately. 

2145
01:47:26,700 --> 01:47:30,800
It's what we did. 
So over the course of the day, 

2146
01:47:30,800 --> 01:47:33,500
you've got all these individuals
downtown carrying guns, 

2147
01:47:33,500 --> 01:47:35,900
everything is peaceful, there's 
a couple of misdemeanor 

2148
01:47:35,900 --> 01:47:37,400
disturbing a piece of rest 
individuals. 

2149
01:47:39,700 --> 01:47:42,800
Two individuals in particular, 
you know, Pro lgbtq were 

2150
01:47:42,800 --> 01:47:45,100
arrested for disturbing the 
peace in the streamer charge. 

2151
01:47:46,900 --> 01:47:54,700
The. 
Dispatch that oh the dispatch 

2152
01:47:54,700 --> 01:47:58,800
gets a 911 call of hey there's 
like 20 dudes. 

2153
01:47:59,700 --> 01:48:01,500
Getting in the back of a U-Haul 
box truck. 

2154
01:48:01,500 --> 01:48:04,800
I got bunch of polls and they 
look like a little army. 

2155
01:48:05,500 --> 01:48:08,500
Well. 
The command post had also been 

2156
01:48:08,500 --> 01:48:12,100
in receipt of. 
Intelligence from another Police

2157
01:48:12,100 --> 01:48:14,500
Department. 
We've been unnamed, we'll say 

2158
01:48:14,508 --> 01:48:18,100
out on the west coast of Hey, 
Cortana Lane FYI. 

2159
01:48:18,100 --> 01:48:23,500
You've got 20, 25 legit antifa 
for in your town and they're 

2160
01:48:24,400 --> 01:48:27,600
Ready to be gangsters? 
So again, so the context of 

2161
01:48:27,600 --> 01:48:30,300
there's nothing scary for people
in North Idaho than antifa 

2162
01:48:30,300 --> 01:48:31,800
coming to town. 
Here's this intelligence saying 

2163
01:48:31,800 --> 01:48:34,100
that there's antifa Coming to 
Town, the police department, 

2164
01:48:34,100 --> 01:48:35,300
shares. 
Portland Police Department. 

2165
01:48:35,300 --> 01:48:37,900
Chairs from me and I'm like, 
well, that's news to me, but I'm

2166
01:48:37,900 --> 01:48:40,100
not gonna say that, it's either,
right or wrong. 

2167
01:48:41,000 --> 01:48:44,100
It's not in one. 
Call comes in and we all kind of

2168
01:48:44,100 --> 01:48:46,500
look at each other in the 
command posts like Maybe 

2169
01:48:46,500 --> 01:48:48,900
antifreezer about that, kind of 
goes unsaid. 

2170
01:48:50,000 --> 01:48:52,300
Police Department. 
Finds you all, pulls it over and

2171
01:48:52,300 --> 01:48:54,100
they get 31 individuals come out
of the back. 

2172
01:48:54,100 --> 01:48:56,800
Now this news just to be clear. 
Yes. 

2173
01:48:57,900 --> 01:49:01,100
No specific environment or no 
specific threat, you get a 

2174
01:49:01,100 --> 01:49:04,800
report from a West Coast agency 
saying hey these people here you

2175
01:49:04,800 --> 01:49:08,700
have a 911 call that aligns with
the information from the and all

2176
01:49:08,700 --> 01:49:12,200
of that is left wing antifa. 
That's what the expectation was 

2177
01:49:12,200 --> 01:49:14,000
at that time and the command 
post. 

2178
01:49:14,000 --> 01:49:15,700
Yes, I've never heard that 
before. 

2179
01:49:15,700 --> 01:49:16,900
Yes, Joe, have you ever heard 
that? 

2180
01:49:16,900 --> 01:49:20,100
No. 
This event got a lot of play as 

2181
01:49:20,100 --> 01:49:23,200
usual about to explain what I 
said before on this deal is that

2182
01:49:23,200 --> 01:49:26,100
there's a lot of false flags 
that get created on antifa and 

2183
01:49:26,100 --> 01:49:28,300
that it's easy. 
You look at January 6, you look 

2184
01:49:28,308 --> 01:49:29,900
at what happened. 
On January 6th. 

2185
01:49:29,900 --> 01:49:32,700
So there's a lot of, there's a 
lot of chaos and Chaos favors 

2186
01:49:32,700 --> 01:49:36,300
the people. 
So the nobody knows who the 

2187
01:49:36,300 --> 01:49:38,400
you're going to get to, who they
are butcher from. 

2188
01:49:38,400 --> 01:49:42,900
Nobody knows really who they 
are, which leads you down the, I

2189
01:49:42,900 --> 01:49:45,000
don't think that's true. 
Actually, I mean, people in the 

2190
01:49:45,008 --> 01:49:47,300
public, don't know, but people 
that pay attention right study 

2191
01:49:47,300 --> 01:49:48,400
this stuff and do it for a 
living. 

2192
01:49:48,407 --> 01:49:50,600
They know who they are because 
one they've been named. 

2193
01:49:50,600 --> 01:49:54,000
They've been unmasked and you 
know their Manifesto and all 

2194
01:49:54,000 --> 01:49:56,100
that it's publicly there. 
They're at every March for Life,

2195
01:49:56,100 --> 01:49:57,600
I've seen them. 
They look like idiots. 

2196
01:49:57,600 --> 01:49:59,100
I mean I've seen them out of the
March for Life. 

2197
01:49:59,108 --> 01:50:01,500
When I was in DC and you're 
like, they're not part of us, 

2198
01:50:01,500 --> 01:50:03,700
they're wearing face masks, 
they're doing things. 

2199
01:50:03,700 --> 01:50:06,000
They're not what people here are
doing to protest abortion. 

2200
01:50:06,000 --> 01:50:09,200
That's not what's going on. 
They're not that unknown, but 

2201
01:50:09,208 --> 01:50:11,200
they are kind of a boogeyman and
they get this like rap because 

2202
01:50:11,200 --> 01:50:13,100
there's, I actually think they 
encourage that. 

2203
01:50:13,100 --> 01:50:15,300
I think they get a kick out of 
people say that because it's 

2204
01:50:15,300 --> 01:50:17,500
probably good for recruiter. 
They're in for propaganda like 

2205
01:50:17,500 --> 01:50:18,700
that is their Mantra. 
All right. 

2206
01:50:18,708 --> 01:50:19,300
Okay. 
Yeah. 

2207
01:50:20,900 --> 01:50:23,000
Truck gets pulled over 
individuals, get pulled out and 

2208
01:50:23,000 --> 01:50:25,400
in the command post, the 
Coraline does not have a lot of 

2209
01:50:25,400 --> 01:50:27,800
CCT cameras. 
We're actually watching a 

2210
01:50:27,800 --> 01:50:31,400
Twitter live feed from somebody 
that was believed to be an 

2211
01:50:31,400 --> 01:50:35,200
antifa member out of Portland. 
So, She is over in the park, 

2212
01:50:35,200 --> 01:50:38,900
this is live streaming and she 
sees the commotion half a block 

2213
01:50:38,907 --> 01:50:41,200
away and walks over with her 
phone in his live stream and 

2214
01:50:41,200 --> 01:50:43,900
we're in the command post 
watching it and it's like that 

2215
01:50:43,900 --> 01:50:47,800
doesn't look like antifa. 
With these idiots right there 

2216
01:50:47,800 --> 01:50:50,600
and they're in, khaki pants, 
they're khaki pants mostly blue 

2217
01:50:50,600 --> 01:50:54,700
shirts, you know, tan hats. 
You know, they've got these 

2218
01:50:54,700 --> 01:50:57,700
homemade little Shields. 
They've got all these flags, 

2219
01:50:57,700 --> 01:51:00,500
they got the face, they've got, 
you know, a little Gators on 

2220
01:51:00,508 --> 01:51:05,100
their face and Anyway, it gets 
back to the command plus so that

2221
01:51:05,100 --> 01:51:07,900
the chief of police the sheriff.
Like, you know, the Head Shed 

2222
01:51:07,900 --> 01:51:10,000
shows up over there, he get back
to the command. 

2223
01:51:10,000 --> 01:51:12,700
Plus the chief police said, 
everybody's going to jail and 

2224
01:51:12,700 --> 01:51:14,400
police decision. 
Like, I don't know who these 

2225
01:51:14,400 --> 01:51:17,300
guys are there going to jail so 
they all get arrested for a 

2226
01:51:17,300 --> 01:51:19,200
misdemeanor. 
Quote-unquote, conspiracy to 

2227
01:51:19,200 --> 01:51:22,100
Riot which importantly is under 
the disturbing this piece 

2228
01:51:22,100 --> 01:51:25,400
statute. 
It's a misdemeanor charge and it

2229
01:51:25,407 --> 01:51:27,600
could be conspiracy to disturb 
the piece. 

2230
01:51:28,800 --> 01:51:32,500
All right. 
In the command post, we quickly 

2231
01:51:32,500 --> 01:51:34,000
kind of figure out that not 
antifa. 

2232
01:51:34,000 --> 01:51:36,200
It's this group called Patriot 
front. 

2233
01:51:36,200 --> 01:51:38,600
Obviously, how much did you know
about them? 

2234
01:51:38,600 --> 01:51:41,500
At that time, very little 
actually, like, you know, we had

2235
01:51:41,500 --> 01:51:44,300
seen some of their propaganda 
around, like, I had passed that 

2236
01:51:44,300 --> 01:51:49,000
around, but it's stickers. 
So when I say propaganda, you 

2237
01:51:49,000 --> 01:51:51,900
know, you would see these little
stickers would show up around 

2238
01:51:51,900 --> 01:51:54,800
town or they had put some bigger
stickers on like some power 

2239
01:51:54,800 --> 01:51:56,700
boxes and Post Falls. 
Excuse me. 

2240
01:51:57,700 --> 01:52:02,100
And in Coeur d'Alene, but that's
not a federal crime, you know, 

2241
01:52:02,108 --> 01:52:04,500
vandalism a property, you know, 
like putting stickers up on 

2242
01:52:04,500 --> 01:52:06,200
stuff. 
So it was this is the part that 

2243
01:52:06,200 --> 01:52:07,800
I want you to hone in on 
specifically. 

2244
01:52:07,800 --> 01:52:09,600
So people understand, yes, what 
and what is not. 

2245
01:52:09,600 --> 01:52:11,400
It's not a federal crime to put 
up stickers. 

2246
01:52:11,400 --> 01:52:13,900
Correct vandalism is not a 
federal crime. 

2247
01:52:13,900 --> 01:52:17,200
Now, could it be a city 
misdemeanor that they put a 

2248
01:52:17,200 --> 01:52:18,200
sticker on? 
A public light pole? 

2249
01:52:18,200 --> 01:52:22,900
Yeah, maybe And I had seen some 
individuals, one evening and I 

2250
01:52:22,900 --> 01:52:25,400
had reported it. 
Who police department they 

2251
01:52:25,400 --> 01:52:27,600
disappeared before an officer 
could respond? 

2252
01:52:27,600 --> 01:52:32,400
But again, it's like, you know, 
How many you know I'm not you 

2253
01:52:32,400 --> 01:52:36,300
know I go back and talk to my 
terrorism guy and it's like, yep

2254
01:52:36,300 --> 01:52:39,400
it's a patriot front, you know, 
they're this group that shows up

2255
01:52:39,400 --> 01:52:42,100
and they protest this and they 
protest that and they've got all

2256
01:52:42,100 --> 01:52:48,000
these videos on line. um, so 
This is a Saturday event, this 

2257
01:52:48,000 --> 01:52:50,200
happens. 
I do my due diligence. 

2258
01:52:50,200 --> 01:52:54,000
I pass this information up the 
chain and everybody is like 

2259
01:52:54,000 --> 01:52:56,200
Zach. 
Success. 

2260
01:52:56,200 --> 01:52:58,600
You were there, we're in front 
of the threats. 

2261
01:52:58,600 --> 01:53:02,800
We reported it quickly you know,
there was there was no big there

2262
01:53:02,800 --> 01:53:06,100
there right? 
There's no violence, you know, 

2263
01:53:06,108 --> 01:53:10,900
but again from internal FBI 
politics perspective of, you 

2264
01:53:10,900 --> 01:53:13,500
know, looking like we're on the 
ball. 

2265
01:53:14,600 --> 01:53:17,200
You got an FBI supervisor in the
command post sharing 

2266
01:53:17,200 --> 01:53:20,500
intelligence is real-time 
sharing that up the chain. 

2267
01:53:20,500 --> 01:53:25,200
You know, that's perfectly. 
Well, the visibility good, no 

2268
01:53:25,200 --> 01:53:28,400
action taken. 
Don't cost to, you know, a 

2269
01:53:28,400 --> 01:53:32,500
constitutional rights violated. 
Everybody might email to the 

2270
01:53:32,508 --> 01:53:36,000
asex on that was Jobs that 
bullet, right? 

2271
01:53:36,000 --> 01:53:40,600
Because like there was no there.
There was like That was 

2272
01:53:40,608 --> 01:53:43,200
interesting, right? 
Because from a minute it was 

2273
01:53:43,208 --> 01:53:45,700
like, who are these? 
What, you know what? 

2274
01:53:45,700 --> 01:53:47,400
What like Kabuki theater. 
Yeah. 

2275
01:53:47,400 --> 01:53:51,700
So, all right. 
So, you know, We had an 

2276
01:53:51,700 --> 01:53:55,300
assistant us attorney was, was 
at the lgbtq event. 

2277
01:53:55,300 --> 01:53:57,600
I knew that she was going to be 
there. 

2278
01:53:57,600 --> 01:54:01,200
I was aware that she had a child
going through tradition and all 

2279
01:54:01,208 --> 01:54:03,400
that is fine. 
And I'd reached out to that 

2280
01:54:03,400 --> 01:54:07,000
individual via text and just 
said, hey are you well before 

2281
01:54:07,000 --> 01:54:09,700
this box truck thing showed up 
and said, hey are you at the 

2282
01:54:09,708 --> 01:54:11,200
event? 
You said, I am. 

2283
01:54:11,200 --> 01:54:14,400
I'm hanging out. 
Do you want me not to name this 

2284
01:54:14,400 --> 01:54:15,500
person? 
Although we've done it before. 

2285
01:54:15,500 --> 01:54:20,500
I'm not gonna drop names because
my Mantra with this is it's just

2286
01:54:20,500 --> 01:54:24,300
the facts of it. 
I'm I, you can do whatever you 

2287
01:54:24,300 --> 01:54:26,200
gonna go read. 
They're Gonna want to read about

2288
01:54:26,200 --> 01:54:27,700
this and sure there are stories 
that are written. 

2289
01:54:27,700 --> 01:54:31,400
Tracy, does have a she did show 
up online, quite a bit, so we 

2290
01:54:31,400 --> 01:54:32,900
can talk about lateral. 
It doesn't have to be on this. 

2291
01:54:32,900 --> 01:54:35,700
You can just stay tuned. 
We'll give it to you out there. 

2292
01:54:35,700 --> 01:54:37,600
You can also through my Twitter 
feed because we've named her 

2293
01:54:37,600 --> 01:54:40,300
before, but it's not relevant to
your particular story because 

2294
01:54:40,300 --> 01:54:42,600
you're just looking at it. 
As here's a person that work 

2295
01:54:42,600 --> 01:54:44,200
with Factor facts. 
Actually facts. 

2296
01:54:44,200 --> 01:54:46,000
Doesn't really care about 
anybody's feelings. 

2297
01:54:46,000 --> 01:54:51,200
Would you say? 
That when somebody has, let's 

2298
01:54:51,200 --> 01:54:53,800
say a child involved in some 
kind of a protected group and 

2299
01:54:53,800 --> 01:54:56,100
that protected group is doing a 
demonstration or March that that

2300
01:54:56,108 --> 01:54:58,700
person has at least some 
conflict of interest when it 

2301
01:54:58,700 --> 01:55:01,500
comes to representing the 
federal government, but that 

2302
01:55:01,500 --> 01:55:03,300
makes sense or No. 
Yes, listen. 

2303
01:55:03,300 --> 01:55:07,600
I will say that that individual 
has Perjured themselves. 

2304
01:55:07,600 --> 01:55:11,800
Well, In the same way that if 
somebody was doing like a guns, 

2305
01:55:11,800 --> 01:55:13,500
right situation? 
And you happen to be a person 

2306
01:55:13,500 --> 01:55:16,200
who is associated with the 
owner, the operator of a 

2307
01:55:16,200 --> 01:55:17,900
Firearms manufacturer. 
You might be a little bit 

2308
01:55:17,900 --> 01:55:21,100
conflicted in that because 
that's just not you have skin in

2309
01:55:21,100 --> 01:55:24,000
the game at that point. 
Like you have a, a position that

2310
01:55:24,000 --> 01:55:26,100
is not agnostic. 
When it comes to the federal 

2311
01:55:26,100 --> 01:55:31,300
government's, you know, sort of 
job my understanding was, and 

2312
01:55:31,300 --> 01:55:34,000
shared by others. 
Was that this attorney was there

2313
01:55:34,000 --> 01:55:37,600
for personal business, because 
of personal skin in the game, to

2314
01:55:37,600 --> 01:55:40,600
your point, in the lgbtq 
movement, which is fine. 

2315
01:55:40,600 --> 01:55:42,400
You're totally allowed to have 
100% a lot to do that. 

2316
01:55:42,400 --> 01:55:45,600
In my communication, with this 
individual was simply words of 

2317
01:55:45,600 --> 01:55:47,200
caution. 
Well, before the box truck, 

2318
01:55:47,200 --> 01:55:50,200
you've got dozens of people 
walking around with guns, don't 

2319
01:55:50,200 --> 01:55:54,400
know whose side, they're on and 
it's just tense and my comment 

2320
01:55:54,400 --> 01:55:58,600
was just exercise caution 
because, it's, it appears tense.

2321
01:55:58,600 --> 01:55:59,600
I'm going to command posture 
there. 

2322
01:55:59,600 --> 01:56:04,100
It appears very tense and her 
response was to send me the 

2323
01:56:04,100 --> 01:56:06,200
picture of a guy with a longer 
in the park. 

2324
01:56:06,200 --> 01:56:08,300
I'm like okay. 
Yeah, Rob, that's an 

2325
01:56:08,300 --> 01:56:12,400
acknowledgment seen some of that
um, Anyway, pressing on again. 

2326
01:56:12,400 --> 01:56:15,200
So my right wrong or 
indifferent. 

2327
01:56:15,200 --> 01:56:21,400
The way I have handled this in 
my previous interviews is It's 

2328
01:56:21,400 --> 01:56:23,900
all about the facts, I don't 
name drop. 

2329
01:56:25,600 --> 01:56:30,100
Public servants, quote unquote. 
Because you know, whether I 

2330
01:56:30,100 --> 01:56:33,000
think they did their job, right?
Or they did me wrong. 

2331
01:56:33,000 --> 01:56:36,200
You say consistent, I stay 
consistent and they are public 

2332
01:56:36,200 --> 01:56:38,100
employees. 
If they were politicians, like I

2333
01:56:38,100 --> 01:56:42,100
dropped the name Josh hurwitz. 
He Is the political appointee as

2334
01:56:42,100 --> 01:56:44,300
the US attorney for the District
of Idaho. 

2335
01:56:45,300 --> 01:56:48,900
He is not just a public servant.
He is a politician, he's a 

2336
01:56:48,900 --> 01:56:51,100
political appointee. 
I will drop that name not 

2337
01:56:51,100 --> 01:56:54,300
maliciously, but when it comes 
to aligning facts with an 

2338
01:56:54,300 --> 01:56:56,600
individual, I will drop that 
name everybody else. 

2339
01:56:56,600 --> 01:56:59,400
Even though these people have as
you said perjure themselves 

2340
01:56:59,400 --> 01:57:02,400
which is not worked out really 
well for, you know, and I just 

2341
01:57:02,400 --> 01:57:04,800
want to point that out as a 
moment of character because I 

2342
01:57:04,800 --> 01:57:07,600
think this is consistent. 
I have a different sort of burn 

2343
01:57:07,600 --> 01:57:12,800
everybody down but you took me a
little while to get spun up and 

2344
01:57:12,800 --> 01:57:15,000
when you have your wife you know
go get made homeless and you're 

2345
01:57:15,008 --> 01:57:17,500
you know just what I know. 
You know. 

2346
01:57:17,500 --> 01:57:21,100
This thing that there is family 
that drags on you and it 

2347
01:57:21,100 --> 01:57:23,300
actually does it's it's 
physically painful how you 

2348
01:57:23,300 --> 01:57:25,300
translate that. 
I think that you do an admirable

2349
01:57:25,300 --> 01:57:27,200
job especially if you're 
consistent on it and that is 

2350
01:57:27,208 --> 01:57:30,500
that you're like look I'm saying
things that I know are true. 

2351
01:57:30,500 --> 01:57:32,700
You're all so accountable for 
every round you send down range 

2352
01:57:32,700 --> 01:57:35,400
100% and you've acted in that 
way because I've watched I've 

2353
01:57:35,400 --> 01:57:39,000
listened, you are remarkably 
moderated. 

2354
01:57:39,000 --> 01:57:41,400
Despite having a real serious 
personal interest in this, and 

2355
01:57:41,400 --> 01:57:44,000
that's a big deal. 
This is we thought we had an FBI

2356
01:57:44,000 --> 01:57:46,400
agents. 
That's why we're calling that. 

2357
01:57:46,400 --> 01:57:48,900
And the second thing is that, 
when we started talking, you 

2358
01:57:48,900 --> 01:57:50,500
were real cautious of saying 
anything to me, probably, 

2359
01:57:50,500 --> 01:57:52,100
because you saw what I had to 
say, which is fair. 

2360
01:57:52,100 --> 01:57:55,200
Well, I didn't know exactly. 
And you were exactly the person 

2361
01:57:55,200 --> 01:57:57,500
that I would expect somebody who
I didn't know that worked in the

2362
01:57:57,508 --> 01:57:59,500
FBI to be. 
Like it's like thanks for 

2363
01:57:59,500 --> 01:58:02,000
calling. 
You know, I'll let you know. 

2364
01:58:03,000 --> 01:58:06,400
And it was arm's length. 
It was very fair and I was like,

2365
01:58:06,400 --> 01:58:09,400
you got to respect somebody. 
That doesn't just jump out there

2366
01:58:09,400 --> 01:58:11,600
and say, oh, you can help me. 
You want to like, hurt some 

2367
01:58:11,600 --> 01:58:13,400
feelings. 
Let's do that, because there was

2368
01:58:13,407 --> 01:58:14,800
a process you were going through
and you've been going through 

2369
01:58:14,800 --> 01:58:16,600
for a long time. 
So anyway, ultimately, I never 

2370
01:58:16,600 --> 01:58:20,200
spoke with you substantively. 
I never spoke with you or any 

2371
01:58:20,200 --> 01:58:23,400
other member of the media until 
I was 100% fired. 

2372
01:58:23,400 --> 01:58:25,900
Yeah, the only conversation I 
had that is there anything I can

2373
01:58:25,900 --> 01:58:27,100
do to help you need anything, 
right? 

2374
01:58:27,100 --> 01:58:29,600
Which was just one guy who'd 
been kicked out to another guy 

2375
01:58:29,600 --> 01:58:31,900
who was going through. 
It was about to get, who was 

2376
01:58:31,900 --> 01:58:34,200
that? 
So, Rory. 

2377
01:58:34,200 --> 01:58:36,500
All right. 
She's walking around, she's 

2378
01:58:36,500 --> 01:58:39,900
walking around with the arrests,
take place, you know, I push up 

2379
01:58:39,900 --> 01:58:44,800
this just happened, you know. 
The events continuing monitoring

2380
01:58:44,800 --> 01:58:49,200
the situation, you know? 
Missed that bullet, whatever 

2381
01:58:49,200 --> 01:58:53,800
that was, and well, by the end 
of the day, it's things are 

2382
01:58:53,800 --> 01:58:55,600
starting to spin up because 
you're getting all the media 

2383
01:58:55,600 --> 01:59:00,400
reports of it. 
This particular ausa is hit me 

2384
01:59:00,400 --> 01:59:01,800
with, hey, is your phone blowing
up? 

2385
01:59:01,800 --> 01:59:05,800
Because my phone's blowing up 
and I'm like, yeah, I mean, I've

2386
01:59:05,800 --> 01:59:07,900
sent some stuff up the 
headquarters. 

2387
01:59:07,900 --> 01:59:10,800
Well, by the next day, you know,
I spent the entire day working 

2388
01:59:10,800 --> 01:59:14,100
from home, creating update, 
update update to headquarters 

2389
01:59:14,100 --> 01:59:18,100
because, again, it's a Sunday, 
it's reaction mode. 

2390
01:59:20,000 --> 01:59:23,300
The we did at that point open 
what's considered a guardian 

2391
01:59:23,300 --> 01:59:25,900
assessment which is like the 
very base level. 

2392
01:59:25,900 --> 01:59:29,800
All you need is an official 
purpose reason to open it. 

2393
01:59:29,800 --> 01:59:34,400
So that the bureau could run is 
authorized then to run database 

2394
01:59:34,400 --> 01:59:36,100
checks our own database checks. 
And I think this is something 

2395
01:59:36,100 --> 01:59:38,200
maybe important for American 
assistance to understand. 

2396
01:59:38,200 --> 01:59:42,500
Yes, the bureau does have 
databases of its own reports. 

2397
01:59:42,500 --> 01:59:44,600
We don't have files on 
everybody. 

2398
01:59:44,600 --> 01:59:49,300
There isn't you know we are not 
allowed by law or by policy to 

2399
01:59:49,300 --> 01:59:51,000
just Hoover up all this 
information. 

2400
01:59:51,000 --> 01:59:54,900
But when you go out and conduct 
investigations, those reports 

2401
01:59:54,900 --> 01:59:57,100
get saved and that gets put into
a database. 

2402
01:59:57,100 --> 02:00:00,500
You can't search an individual's
name for that database just 

2403
02:00:00,500 --> 02:00:04,800
because you feel like it, you 
have to have a legitimate lawful

2404
02:00:04,800 --> 02:00:08,400
reason to do it and assessment 
is the lowest level of 

2405
02:00:08,400 --> 02:00:10,600
Investigation. 
All you have to have is a 

2406
02:00:10,600 --> 02:00:12,500
legitimate purpose. 
So the legitimate purpose here 

2407
02:00:12,500 --> 02:00:14,700
was bunch of individuals. 
Got arrested. 

2408
02:00:14,700 --> 02:00:18,300
We want to know if they're in 
the FBI holding, because the 

2409
02:00:18,300 --> 02:00:20,200
bureau is always scared to 
death. 

2410
02:00:21,000 --> 02:00:23,400
That somebody goes and does 
something like a terrorist 

2411
02:00:23,400 --> 02:00:26,000
event. 
And, you know, there's the 

2412
02:00:26,000 --> 02:00:27,600
perception that we were holding 
the football. 

2413
02:00:27,600 --> 02:00:30,400
When this is the, they were on 
the right thing, which I always 

2414
02:00:30,400 --> 02:00:32,200
push back against. 
And I know you will as well 

2415
02:00:32,200 --> 02:00:34,900
because it's an unfair 
assessment, just because the FBI

2416
02:00:34,900 --> 02:00:38,500
has Your name in a database. 
They have your name in a 

2417
02:00:38,500 --> 02:00:40,500
database and they have mine and 
I'm sure they have Joe's. 

2418
02:00:40,500 --> 02:00:44,500
If anybody reports something it 
pops up the fact that matter is 

2419
02:00:44,508 --> 02:00:46,400
is if you're in the 
record-keeping system, it's not 

2420
02:00:46,400 --> 02:00:48,800
necessarily always derogatory. 
It just might be that someone. 

2421
02:00:48,800 --> 02:00:51,600
I mean I found guys names that 
wrote letters to George W. 

2422
02:00:51,600 --> 02:00:54,000
Bush and said you should make me
a US citizen because I'm very 

2423
02:00:54,000 --> 02:00:56,000
important to the academic 
community and I'm reading this 

2424
02:00:56,000 --> 02:00:58,300
going, like, why do we even have
this written in crayon? 

2425
02:00:58,300 --> 02:00:59,500
Well, it was written. 
It was typed up. 

2426
02:00:59,500 --> 02:01:01,300
It was somebody sent it over the
White House, the White House 

2427
02:01:01,300 --> 02:01:04,200
sent it over to the FBI and so 
it got immortalized forever in 

2428
02:01:04,200 --> 02:01:06,100
the final and you're right, 
okay, whatever non derogatory, 

2429
02:01:06,100 --> 02:01:10,500
so assessment, get assessment 
filed gets opened databases are 

2430
02:01:10,500 --> 02:01:13,300
getting run and you're doing all
the names. 

2431
02:01:13,300 --> 02:01:15,600
All 31 of these guys. 
Doing all 31 names are getting 

2432
02:01:15,600 --> 02:01:18,600
run like initially it's the 
radio room or the controller 

2433
02:01:18,600 --> 02:01:22,500
room in Salt Lake City and then 
I get the Boise office to go in 

2434
02:01:22,500 --> 02:01:25,200
and open up the file and run 
some additional database checks,

2435
02:01:25,200 --> 02:01:28,000
send off some preservation 
letters to like social media 

2436
02:01:28,000 --> 02:01:29,800
companies and stuff. 
Like all right, if we end up 

2437
02:01:29,808 --> 02:01:31,900
going there, let's preserve some
of this stuff. 

2438
02:01:32,700 --> 02:01:36,600
So I'm riding these updates who 
these people are. 

2439
02:01:36,600 --> 02:01:39,600
What happened in the meantime, 
the quarterly Police Department 

2440
02:01:39,600 --> 02:01:41,800
is executing a couple of search 
warrants based on their 

2441
02:01:41,800 --> 02:01:46,400
misdemeanor charges for three 
vehicles that were associated 

2442
02:01:46,400 --> 02:01:47,900
with these people. 
So one of them is the box truck 

2443
02:01:47,900 --> 02:01:50,200
were when they did search 
incident to arrest took, 

2444
02:01:50,200 --> 02:01:52,500
everybody's stuff and through 
the box truck and then seized it

2445
02:01:52,508 --> 02:01:57,300
during the search of the truck. 
the attorney's office however, 

2446
02:01:57,300 --> 02:02:02,700
is We want to charge these mofos
was something Federal and I'm 

2447
02:02:02,700 --> 02:02:06,500
like, okay, what you got and, 
you know, it's like the wander 

2448
02:02:06,500 --> 02:02:09,700
list of charges. 
And but by the by Monday, 

2449
02:02:12,100 --> 02:02:16,200
Reality sets in and this female 
he would say that we previously 

2450
02:02:16,200 --> 02:02:21,400
refer to communicates with me. 
Yeah, so there's not really 

2451
02:02:21,400 --> 02:02:22,900
going to be any federal charges 
here. 

2452
02:02:25,100 --> 02:02:26,600
Yeah. 
Was that in writing or was that 

2453
02:02:26,600 --> 02:02:28,000
in? 
So that's communicated. 

2454
02:02:30,800 --> 02:02:33,500
In both text messages and you 
know, like over the phone. 

2455
02:02:35,800 --> 02:02:41,400
Can you but can you meet with my
here out of Boise? 

2456
02:02:41,400 --> 02:02:45,100
Whose another female ausa that 
specializes in National Security

2457
02:02:45,100 --> 02:02:47,900
investigations and prosecutions?
Can we have a conference call 

2458
02:02:47,900 --> 02:02:50,700
tomorrow morning? 
So, so, this is Monday going 

2459
02:02:50,700 --> 02:02:55,000
into Tuesday, what I had, 
authorized, at that point going 

2460
02:02:55,000 --> 02:02:57,000
into Monday morning after all 
the updates. 

2461
02:02:57,000 --> 02:03:01,300
After, now being well-versed in 
the FBI's investigative efforts 

2462
02:03:01,300 --> 02:03:07,200
into this group and these 
individuals and their Blatant 

2463
02:03:07,200 --> 02:03:10,700
Communications from the FBI of 
hey Zach, we know this group. 

2464
02:03:10,700 --> 02:03:14,700
There's no there like, they go 
to extreme lengths, not to do 

2465
02:03:14,700 --> 02:03:18,600
anything violent. 
So everybody take a deep breath,

2466
02:03:18,600 --> 02:03:22,100
here's what I want to. 
This is what I've always known 

2467
02:03:22,100 --> 02:03:24,800
as well. 
Can you say that again? 

2468
02:03:24,800 --> 02:03:28,600
Very specifically about Patriot 
front, we get constant online, 

2469
02:03:28,600 --> 02:03:31,000
oh, they're feds. 
They dress like, feds, they 

2470
02:03:31,000 --> 02:03:34,200
don't even change the uniform 
from Quantico, why would it be? 

2471
02:03:34,200 --> 02:03:36,300
And of course, everyone's going 
to, you know, I think my 

2472
02:03:36,300 --> 02:03:38,300
audience is smart enough to 
listen to what this man has been

2473
02:03:38,308 --> 02:03:39,800
saying this. 
You know, if you listen to Zach,

2474
02:03:39,800 --> 02:03:41,500
you should listen. 
He's like a really straight 

2475
02:03:41,500 --> 02:03:43,700
shooter, it's been my impression
for two plus years. 

2476
02:03:44,900 --> 02:03:48,200
But there's a reason why the FBI
doesn't care about this group 

2477
02:03:48,200 --> 02:03:51,100
and it's not because they 
created the group that's been my

2478
02:03:51,100 --> 02:03:52,800
impression. 
A lot of his come from 

2479
02:03:52,808 --> 02:03:55,500
background information from 
folks in your office but carry 

2480
02:03:55,500 --> 02:03:56,900
100%. 
No, they're not. 

2481
02:03:58,300 --> 02:04:02,300
They're not former FBI agent. 
Why are they not there a clown 

2482
02:04:02,308 --> 02:04:07,300
show that has their own 
Political perspectives. 

2483
02:04:07,300 --> 02:04:10,600
They have got their own desire 
to create propaganda videos. 

2484
02:04:10,600 --> 02:04:11,900
A lot of his probably for 
recruitment. 

2485
02:04:11,900 --> 02:04:15,300
It is a real simple hats. 
They're real to employee know 

2486
02:04:15,308 --> 02:04:17,400
but would it be fair that 
because you've read their 

2487
02:04:17,400 --> 02:04:19,600
Manifesto on sure white 
nationalism. 

2488
02:04:19,600 --> 02:04:22,700
Yeah. 
So not necessarily premises but 

2489
02:04:22,700 --> 02:04:24,800
like nationalism where they 
think there's supposed to be an 

2490
02:04:24,800 --> 02:04:26,600
ethno State. 
Yeah, I mean they certainly 

2491
02:04:26,600 --> 02:04:29,400
promote that. 
I mean look, they're very, it's 

2492
02:04:29,400 --> 02:04:30,700
not like they protest 
everything. 

2493
02:04:30,700 --> 02:04:35,700
They protest satanic Cults, they
protest black lives matter, they

2494
02:04:35,700 --> 02:04:41,000
protest lgbtq they protest 
occupy ice events. 

2495
02:04:41,000 --> 02:04:44,400
So there are across the board 
with what they protest against 

2496
02:04:44,400 --> 02:04:47,300
and then they have their old, 
their own protests, right? 

2497
02:04:47,300 --> 02:04:50,100
They have different chance so 
like strong border, strong 

2498
02:04:50,108 --> 02:04:53,200
Nations, whatever. 
Again, point of it all is 

2499
02:04:53,200 --> 02:04:56,900
they're not happy. 
I it is protected speed, not FBI

2500
02:04:56,900 --> 02:04:59,400
employees of any kind. 
They're not associated with the 

2501
02:04:59,400 --> 02:05:01,700
bureau. 
Why they dress in similar stuff 

2502
02:05:01,700 --> 02:05:03,100
to our Academy? 
I have no idea. 

2503
02:05:03,100 --> 02:05:05,600
I feel like they probably do it 
specifically be and maybe 

2504
02:05:05,600 --> 02:05:10,100
because you take the perspective
of there's no such thing as bad 

2505
02:05:10,100 --> 02:05:13,200
media. 
So, you know, they've got a 

2506
02:05:13,200 --> 02:05:14,900
website. 
They put all they video 

2507
02:05:14,900 --> 02:05:18,500
everything that they do, you 
know, to include their vandalism

2508
02:05:18,500 --> 02:05:20,700
stuff like if they're going to 
go up and spray paint Patriot 

2509
02:05:20,700 --> 02:05:23,000
front on an underpass somewhere,
like they video and they put it 

2510
02:05:23,000 --> 02:05:25,300
out there. 
Obviously somebody thinks that 

2511
02:05:25,300 --> 02:05:26,600
school because they've got 
people in their group. 

2512
02:05:26,600 --> 02:05:30,100
So I quickly was getting spun up
on that. 

2513
02:05:30,100 --> 02:05:33,200
It what? 
I without divulging. 

2514
02:05:34,300 --> 02:05:38,500
FBI techniques. 
What I will say is the FBI 

2515
02:05:38,500 --> 02:05:42,600
lawfully investigated 
allegations against this group 

2516
02:05:42,600 --> 02:05:45,500
and against individuals in 
leadership of this group to 

2517
02:05:45,500 --> 02:05:48,600
include individuals that were 
arrested in quarter Land by the 

2518
02:05:48,600 --> 02:05:52,200
coordinate police department. 
And every single one of those 

2519
02:05:52,200 --> 02:05:55,800
investigations were they know 
where the line is, they will 

2520
02:05:55,800 --> 02:05:58,400
walk up to it. 
And if anybody at anybody within

2521
02:05:58,400 --> 02:06:00,800
the group advocates for going 
over it, they get kicked out. 

2522
02:06:00,800 --> 02:06:04,300
Did that come from from DC? 
Came from FBI headquarters that 

2523
02:06:04,300 --> 02:06:06,900
domestic terrorism operations 
section. 

2524
02:06:06,900 --> 02:06:09,700
So counter terrorism division 
within the FBI that came from 

2525
02:06:09,700 --> 02:06:13,200
the field offices that was like,
hey you should talk to special 

2526
02:06:13,200 --> 02:06:16,900
agent, you know, snuffle off 
against he looked at this group 

2527
02:06:16,900 --> 02:06:20,200
for a while. 
You can look at his closing EC 

2528
02:06:21,100 --> 02:06:23,800
Says, all the techniques that 
they used and their findings. 

2529
02:06:25,000 --> 02:06:26,900
Yes, that's incredible 
discipline though. 

2530
02:06:26,900 --> 02:06:29,800
I mean think about the fact that
the Zero Tolerance on somebody 

2531
02:06:29,800 --> 02:06:33,000
who was stepping over the line 
and I'm sure you guys did this 

2532
02:06:33,000 --> 02:06:34,500
in the FBI. 
You looked into his funding him 

2533
02:06:34,500 --> 02:06:37,500
and you found, you know, we, I 
just wanted to dig into the 

2534
02:06:37,500 --> 02:06:40,200
covers with these guys and you 
found that there were ngos or 

2535
02:06:40,200 --> 02:06:43,600
actually paying people that were
in there and they had an 

2536
02:06:43,600 --> 02:06:45,900
enormous number of people that 
work for non-profit 

2537
02:06:45,900 --> 02:06:48,100
organizations that were part of 
this group. 

2538
02:06:48,100 --> 02:06:51,300
So, That was kind of a strange 
scratch your head. 

2539
02:06:51,300 --> 02:06:54,400
Why would this person be getting
paid by this organization? 

2540
02:06:54,400 --> 02:06:57,000
So there's the same type of 
thing that antifa does where you

2541
02:06:57,000 --> 02:06:58,800
had nonprofits that were paying 
those people. 

2542
02:06:58,800 --> 02:07:02,700
You also had the same thing that
could be said about the About 

2543
02:07:02,700 --> 02:07:05,400
the Patriot front, they had 
people that were working in 

2544
02:07:05,400 --> 02:07:09,500
nonprofits that had what I would
call a you know, made-up job. 

2545
02:07:10,300 --> 02:07:13,700
That we're getting paid. 
And I only know this, I can't 

2546
02:07:13,700 --> 02:07:17,800
tell you how I know. 
But I I know this for classy but

2547
02:07:17,800 --> 02:07:20,400
you know these things I mean 
this isn't this isn't new to you

2548
02:07:20,400 --> 02:07:24,700
and so you have to look at the 
the parallel between the two and

2549
02:07:24,700 --> 02:07:25,400
go. 
Okay? 

2550
02:07:25,400 --> 02:07:27,700
So I'm not saying they're the 
same, I think some movements are

2551
02:07:27,700 --> 02:07:30,200
after Turf, some movements are 
Grassroots, they're gonna be 

2552
02:07:30,200 --> 02:07:32,500
money behind them, where there 
are real Believers in a movement

2553
02:07:32,500 --> 02:07:34,400
and there's other people that 
are there to move the moving 

2554
02:07:34,400 --> 02:07:37,000
along and they're getting it set
of eyes people, that's really 

2555
02:07:37,000 --> 02:07:39,200
incentivized. 
We're getting incentivized from 

2556
02:07:39,200 --> 02:07:43,400
groups that were Were largely 
considered left lately. 

2557
02:07:43,400 --> 02:07:44,900
So how do you have Patriot 
front? 

2558
02:07:44,900 --> 02:07:48,100
Guys are getting paid by ngos 
that are somewhat left-leaning 

2559
02:07:48,100 --> 02:07:50,900
or at least the leadership in 
those organizations are and look

2560
02:07:50,900 --> 02:07:53,300
at what antifa is doing and so 
and I'm not the FBI. 

2561
02:07:53,300 --> 02:07:55,000
So I didn't have the same 
resources, but I certainly got 

2562
02:07:55,000 --> 02:07:57,300
to the minute to the bottom of 
it and a couple cases. 

2563
02:07:57,300 --> 02:07:58,700
So this is where it goes 
through. 

2564
02:07:58,700 --> 02:08:00,300
This is where you get the, are 
they feds, right? 

2565
02:08:00,300 --> 02:08:02,500
I mean, I can just tell you 
where it came from. 

2566
02:08:02,508 --> 02:08:05,600
I don't believe, and a 
fundamental distrust in the 

2567
02:08:05,600 --> 02:08:07,900
system at this point. 
But the broader piece and this 

2568
02:08:07,900 --> 02:08:10,300
is the reason why I honed in on 
an earlier about putting down 

2569
02:08:10,300 --> 02:08:13,100
and doing vandalism. 
It's not a federal crime know. 

2570
02:08:13,100 --> 02:08:16,300
And if you want an FBI that does
the job of the FBI, that means 

2571
02:08:16,300 --> 02:08:17,500
that they investigate federal 
crime. 

2572
02:08:17,500 --> 02:08:18,500
Yes. 
Right. 

2573
02:08:18,500 --> 02:08:20,700
That's what I want. 
I don't want anything beyond 

2574
02:08:20,700 --> 02:08:22,600
that either. 
It's like oh, you don't like 

2575
02:08:22,600 --> 02:08:24,400
them or their ideology neither 
do. 

2576
02:08:24,400 --> 02:08:25,800
I that's not part of this job 
though. 

2577
02:08:25,800 --> 02:08:29,200
That's why you being fair. 
And I said it very specifically.

2578
02:08:30,200 --> 02:08:32,500
That is the job of the 
supervisor, here's your left and

2579
02:08:32,500 --> 02:08:34,000
right boundaries. 
This is what the Constitutional 

2580
02:08:34,000 --> 02:08:36,500
allows you to go do. 
Stay within that and I'll step 

2581
02:08:36,500 --> 02:08:38,300
in your space. 
I was just adding a narrative to

2582
02:08:38,300 --> 02:08:41,900
the people themselves. 
I know and how that there's so 

2583
02:08:41,900 --> 02:08:43,300
many people that are going to 
be, basically, they're like 

2584
02:08:43,308 --> 02:08:45,500
everything is an option. 
If you think that you're seeing 

2585
02:08:45,500 --> 02:08:48,100
this op, like there are things 
going on and some of them are 

2586
02:08:48,100 --> 02:08:49,300
not going to be immediately 
obvious. 

2587
02:08:49,300 --> 02:08:52,400
The question is, is, are there 
bad actors that are happening in

2588
02:08:52,400 --> 02:08:54,300
your office? 
Do you think guys in your office

2589
02:08:54,300 --> 02:08:57,700
were part of a cover-up where 
people, you know, incentivizing 

2590
02:08:57,700 --> 02:08:58,900
this movement? 
Are they out there? 

2591
02:08:58,900 --> 02:09:01,700
Trying to stir the pot? 
Like I never saw it and I don't 

2592
02:09:01,700 --> 02:09:03,600
think you did from everything 
you've said so far. 

2593
02:09:03,608 --> 02:09:07,300
No, again, it's is there 
evidence of a federal crime, 

2594
02:09:07,300 --> 02:09:11,300
right? 
He quickly came to like is the 

2595
02:09:11,300 --> 02:09:15,900
answer to that was no. 
So, you know, I was having lots 

2596
02:09:15,900 --> 02:09:17,800
of conversations with my 
executive management again 

2597
02:09:17,800 --> 02:09:19,900
because of all the media 
coverage, you know, this was 

2598
02:09:19,900 --> 02:09:22,600
getting briefed up to the 
seventh floor, the FBI which is,

2599
02:09:22,600 --> 02:09:25,400
you know, the direct, you know, 
the deputy director, executive 

2600
02:09:25,400 --> 02:09:28,300
assistant, director level, why? 
I think this blew up so big but 

2601
02:09:28,300 --> 02:09:30,000
just because of the stupid media
coverage. 

2602
02:09:30,000 --> 02:09:33,200
And again, it's, you know, the 
bureau is again, you know, 

2603
02:09:33,208 --> 02:09:36,100
always cognizant of being caught
with his pants down. 

2604
02:09:36,108 --> 02:09:41,200
So there's that reflect, you 
know, reactive nature to the 

2605
02:09:41,200 --> 02:09:43,200
bureau but again, everybody was 
happy. 

2606
02:09:43,200 --> 02:09:44,900
I was there we were sharing 
information. 

2607
02:09:44,900 --> 02:09:46,700
There was no there there. 
Yeah. 

2608
02:09:46,700 --> 02:09:50,500
And everything coming out of FBI
headquarters was a particularly 

2609
02:09:50,500 --> 02:09:53,100
breath. 
We know this group, It was not 

2610
02:09:53,100 --> 02:09:55,500
going to be right. 
They were not arrested with 

2611
02:09:55,500 --> 02:09:57,600
sharp pencils. 
There's no knives. 

2612
02:09:57,600 --> 02:10:00,200
There's no guns. 
There Are No Bananas. 

2613
02:10:00,200 --> 02:10:03,400
There are purchased metal pieces
of conduit that they've attached

2614
02:10:03,400 --> 02:10:05,200
Flags to. 
And these little homemade 

2615
02:10:05,200 --> 02:10:09,200
Shields, they have cameras, they
have cell phones, they have a 

2616
02:10:09,200 --> 02:10:12,200
bullhorn, they've got a little 
plan of what they're going to do

2617
02:10:12,200 --> 02:10:16,700
with a speech staple to it. 
And they've got a commercial Lee

2618
02:10:16,700 --> 02:10:20,000
purchased smoked device, which 
is also present in almost all 

2619
02:10:20,000 --> 02:10:22,500
their videos, red, blue, yellow,
whatever. 

2620
02:10:22,500 --> 02:10:25,200
Again, you know, they think 
they're pretty cool in their own

2621
02:10:25,200 --> 02:10:28,800
YouTube videos. 
So RPG. 

2622
02:10:30,100 --> 02:10:32,600
The. 
My. 

2623
02:10:32,600 --> 02:10:36,600
So again, everybody's on the 
same sheet of music, except for 

2624
02:10:36,600 --> 02:10:37,700
kind of the US attorney's 
office. 

2625
02:10:37,700 --> 02:10:38,700
At this point, we're talking 
about Monday. 

2626
02:10:38,700 --> 02:10:41,900
So three days after this event, 
I've been working non-stop just 

2627
02:10:41,900 --> 02:10:44,700
fine. 
That is my job, no problem. 

2628
02:10:46,300 --> 02:10:51,100
There's agreement in what we 
open is a 343 Victor case, which

2629
02:10:51,100 --> 02:10:54,400
is a assistance to local law 
enforcement technical case. 

2630
02:10:54,400 --> 02:10:57,900
It is not a predicated 
investigation, which means you 

2631
02:10:57,900 --> 02:11:01,500
are not allowed to do predicated
Investigations out of it is 

2632
02:11:01,500 --> 02:11:05,600
simply a conduit for the FBI to 
offer a local investment, a 

2633
02:11:05,600 --> 02:11:09,900
local agency technical support. 
So accordingly Police 

2634
02:11:09,900 --> 02:11:14,200
Department, right wrong or 
indifference had opened their 

2635
02:11:14,200 --> 02:11:16,400
own investigation, right? 
They had made a misdemeanor 

2636
02:11:16,400 --> 02:11:18,700
arrest, which police officers do
every day across the United 

2637
02:11:18,700 --> 02:11:20,600
States. 
Sometimes, they're good arrest. 

2638
02:11:20,600 --> 02:11:21,800
Sometimes they're not good 
arrest. 

2639
02:11:21,800 --> 02:11:23,800
It wasn't my position to cast 
that judgment. 

2640
02:11:23,800 --> 02:11:27,200
They made a decision and I am 
trying to play well, in my 

2641
02:11:27,200 --> 02:11:29,500
sandbox, I've got a quarterly 
Police Department. 

2642
02:11:29,500 --> 02:11:31,900
That is very touching. 
Again, it used to be the sheriff

2643
02:11:31,900 --> 02:11:34,100
in the police. 
Chief couldn't be in the same 

2644
02:11:34,108 --> 02:11:37,600
room together and for some 
context like right now today, 

2645
02:11:37,600 --> 02:11:40,900
the city of Portland is being 
sued by one of its former police

2646
02:11:40,900 --> 02:11:42,400
captains. 
In Coeur d'Alene, there are two 

2647
02:11:42,400 --> 02:11:45,700
captains The one Captain there 
is no longer employed. 

2648
02:11:45,700 --> 02:11:49,600
There is suing the city of Coeur
d'Alene because the chief and 

2649
02:11:49,600 --> 02:11:53,700
the other captain wanted him to 
lie in an internal investigation

2650
02:11:53,700 --> 02:11:55,900
about them. 
Having secret recordings of 

2651
02:11:55,900 --> 02:12:00,900
meetings with the city. 
Board members. 

2652
02:12:01,700 --> 02:12:03,600
He said, no thanks. 
I won't lie. 

2653
02:12:03,600 --> 02:12:06,200
So he was honest. 
And said he was aware of these 

2654
02:12:06,200 --> 02:12:09,900
secret recordings. 
He went back, you know, they 

2655
02:12:09,900 --> 02:12:11,600
said well did you tell him what 
we wanted to tell me? 

2656
02:12:11,600 --> 02:12:12,800
He's like no, I told them the 
truth. 

2657
02:12:12,800 --> 02:12:15,900
That should be what you want me 
to tell them and then they just 

2658
02:12:15,900 --> 02:12:18,700
asked him endlessly until he 
quit. 

2659
02:12:18,700 --> 02:12:20,200
He brought all that information 
to the city. 

2660
02:12:20,200 --> 02:12:23,200
The city did internal 
investigations validated that 

2661
02:12:23,200 --> 02:12:26,300
there were secret reporting's 
validated that this Captain told

2662
02:12:26,300 --> 02:12:29,500
the truth validated that he was 
harassed to the point of him 

2663
02:12:29,500 --> 02:12:32,600
quitting. 
And yet those individuals were 

2664
02:12:32,600 --> 02:12:33,500
still in charge of the police 
department. 

2665
02:12:33,500 --> 02:12:38,400
And so at some point, yeah, the 
city of Portland shell out 

2666
02:12:38,400 --> 02:12:41,400
millions of the captain for that
that type of treatment. 

2667
02:12:41,400 --> 02:12:45,700
So I say that not to throw a 
bunch of dirt on Quarter Lane 

2668
02:12:45,708 --> 02:12:49,400
but from the standpoint of 
what's my motivation at this 

2669
02:12:49,407 --> 02:12:51,900
point, my motivation is I've got
a police department made a 

2670
02:12:51,900 --> 02:12:53,200
decision. 
They didn't miss him in arrest, 

2671
02:12:53,200 --> 02:12:55,300
they've got all these electronic
devices that they're going to 

2672
02:12:55,308 --> 02:12:57,900
want to search. 
The FBI can assist with that. 

2673
02:12:59,300 --> 02:13:02,600
I've told them that, hey, I'm I 
can appear that there's a there 

2674
02:13:02,600 --> 02:13:05,400
there. 
On the FBI side, I am not a 

2675
02:13:05,400 --> 02:13:06,700
coordinate police officer. 
You guys can make your own 

2676
02:13:06,708 --> 02:13:08,100
decisions about your misdemeanor
charges. 

2677
02:13:08,900 --> 02:13:11,900
But I can support you. 
In searching all these 

2678
02:13:11,900 --> 02:13:13,300
electronics and they're like, 
great. 

2679
02:13:13,300 --> 02:13:14,500
Thank you. 
We don't really need help with 

2680
02:13:14,500 --> 02:13:15,800
this investigation. 
We've got it. 

2681
02:13:15,800 --> 02:13:19,600
Misdemeanor, moving on with 
life, they had asked if I wanted

2682
02:13:19,600 --> 02:13:21,800
to be a purpose of that 
investigation just to be totally

2683
02:13:21,800 --> 02:13:24,500
clear, is if they said, hey, we 
need to get into this phone. 

2684
02:13:24,500 --> 02:13:26,000
We need celebrate, we need 
something. 

2685
02:13:26,000 --> 02:13:28,700
We need some kind of physical 
capability that you guys have. 

2686
02:13:28,700 --> 02:13:30,800
And we have the PC, you guys 
would be able to loan people to 

2687
02:13:30,800 --> 02:13:31,500
do it. 
So yes. 

2688
02:13:31,500 --> 02:13:34,000
So they were going to write a 
state search warrant on, you 

2689
02:13:34,000 --> 02:13:35,100
know, on that misdemeanor 
charge. 

2690
02:13:35,100 --> 02:13:37,800
I have provided them. 
The language going to that 

2691
02:13:37,800 --> 02:13:39,600
warrant. 
So that those phones could be 

2692
02:13:39,600 --> 02:13:42,900
taking out of state and could be
searched by an FBI employee. 

2693
02:13:42,900 --> 02:13:45,700
It's just simple language needs 
to be boilerplate into their 

2694
02:13:45,700 --> 02:13:48,300
sort of Bureau does this all the
time across the country? 

2695
02:13:48,300 --> 02:13:50,700
This would be like a cart or a 
cast or something like that. 

2696
02:13:50,700 --> 02:13:52,800
Or somebody would come in and do
like a sophisticated 

2697
02:13:52,800 --> 02:13:55,400
capabilities. 
Yeah, just do a phone number. 

2698
02:13:55,400 --> 02:13:58,100
So again, the bureau's got 
numerous machines to do phone 

2699
02:13:58,100 --> 02:13:59,000
numbers. 
The Coraline police department 

2700
02:13:59,000 --> 02:14:02,300
has one for, you know, 30 plus 
devices. 

2701
02:14:02,300 --> 02:14:05,700
So I mean simply Logistics is 
all the offer is good. 

2702
02:14:05,700 --> 02:14:07,700
They're not asking for anything 
else. 

2703
02:14:07,700 --> 02:14:13,000
Everybody is happy. and, We're 
moving on. 

2704
02:14:13,000 --> 02:14:17,300
However, this is where things go
sideways, because attorney's 

2705
02:14:17,300 --> 02:14:21,500
office have that meeting with me
Tuesday morning it's virtual and

2706
02:14:21,500 --> 02:14:25,700
they're like we would like to do
a federal search warrant for 

2707
02:14:25,700 --> 02:14:29,100
those devices, and I'm like, 
well, Stand by one. 

2708
02:14:29,100 --> 02:14:33,200
I'm gonna bring you guys up to 
speed again on what the bureau 

2709
02:14:33,200 --> 02:14:36,600
has done looking into this group
in the past and I read to them. 

2710
02:14:36,600 --> 02:14:39,700
Closing ECS of like 
investigative technique result, 

2711
02:14:39,700 --> 02:14:42,600
investigative technique results.
Non-violent non-violent 

2712
02:14:42,600 --> 02:14:46,000
nonviolent nonviolent protest, 
protest, protest protest lawful 

2713
02:14:46,000 --> 02:14:47,500
off a lawful constitution 
protected. 

2714
02:14:49,000 --> 02:14:51,500
Know like, yeah, we still want 
to do a federal search warrant. 

2715
02:14:51,500 --> 02:14:55,100
I'm like, I don't see what 
violation know like, well, we're

2716
02:14:55,100 --> 02:14:57,500
going to do the conspiracy to 
Riot Federal rights statue. 

2717
02:14:57,500 --> 02:15:02,000
I don't See that like okay well 
can we have a greater meeting 

2718
02:15:02,000 --> 02:15:06,100
between us attorney's? 
Office doj's is wanting us to do

2719
02:15:06,100 --> 02:15:11,700
this too and your management 
team and I'm like, okay like 

2720
02:15:11,700 --> 02:15:13,800
we'll put it together for you. 
Who do you want to be there? 

2721
02:15:13,800 --> 02:15:17,000
So it was like my executive 
management and it was FBI 

2722
02:15:17,000 --> 02:15:20,600
counterterrorism division. 
So if you kind of terrorist 

2723
02:15:20,600 --> 02:15:24,600
Vision joins that the next day 
and their perspective is we know

2724
02:15:24,600 --> 02:15:29,300
this group There is no evidence 
to support a federal Riot 

2725
02:15:29,300 --> 02:15:32,600
statute from a probable cause 
standpoint to search their 

2726
02:15:32,600 --> 02:15:35,300
devices. 
So they're backing your play. 

2727
02:15:35,300 --> 02:15:39,300
Yes. 
Okay. but the US attorney's 

2728
02:15:39,300 --> 02:15:42,600
office standpoint is no no, 
we're leading this investigation

2729
02:15:42,600 --> 02:15:46,500
which for those out there U.S 
attorney's Office does not have 

2730
02:15:46,500 --> 02:15:49,600
statutory authority to 
investigate special counsels can

2731
02:15:49,600 --> 02:15:52,000
be given statutory authority to 
investigate but otherwise 

2732
02:15:52,000 --> 02:15:55,200
investigative Authority lies 
within the law enforcement 

2733
02:15:55,200 --> 02:16:01,100
entities of FBI DEA ATF US, 
Marshals, homeless security, 

2734
02:16:01,100 --> 02:16:03,500
investigations, Secret Service, 
Etc. 

2735
02:16:03,500 --> 02:16:06,900
Can you got the perspective of 
occasionally? 

2736
02:16:06,900 --> 02:16:09,100
They'll bring you a case you 
obviously have discretion on 

2737
02:16:09,108 --> 02:16:10,200
that. 
Can you kind of talk about the 

2738
02:16:10,200 --> 02:16:13,200
interplay there because you 
know, brought it away so cases 

2739
02:16:13,200 --> 02:16:15,900
can be brought to along 
forcement like the FBI by the 

2740
02:16:15,907 --> 02:16:19,000
US, attorney's office in two 
ways, one they become aware of 

2741
02:16:19,000 --> 02:16:21,900
information and they say hey 
just like any other intake, like

2742
02:16:21,900 --> 02:16:24,900
a complaint system. 
Would you consider investigating

2743
02:16:24,900 --> 02:16:26,700
this? 
We think if you can prove it up,

2744
02:16:26,708 --> 02:16:31,200
we'd like to charge it or they 
will do a direct adoption of a 

2745
02:16:31,200 --> 02:16:35,100
state investigation. 
Such as like narcotics. 

2746
02:16:35,100 --> 02:16:38,500
Like, you got interdiction stops
on the highway, you know, they 

2747
02:16:38,500 --> 02:16:41,600
get 10 pounds of meth in a car 
stop, they call the US 

2748
02:16:41,600 --> 02:16:43,400
attorney's office because 
they've got a direct connect 

2749
02:16:43,400 --> 02:16:46,000
their your strings off, yet, 
we'd like to take that in my 

2750
02:16:46,008 --> 02:16:47,799
experience. 
You send over an agent to go and

2751
02:16:47,799 --> 02:16:50,900
where my experience, these turns
out, this is always happy to 

2752
02:16:50,900 --> 02:16:54,200
take from the from the locals 
but they never want to rely on 

2753
02:16:54,200 --> 02:16:56,600
the locals to get ready for 
prosecution. 

2754
02:16:56,600 --> 02:16:59,799
They will want a federal agency 
to come in and do cleanup. 

2755
02:16:59,799 --> 02:17:01,900
And that's when you end up with 
like a case File from a local 

2756
02:17:01,900 --> 02:17:04,200
law enforcement agency, you sit 
in front of Federal grand jury 

2757
02:17:04,200 --> 02:17:05,700
as an FBI agent, you're reading 
through, okay. 

2758
02:17:05,700 --> 02:17:08,400
Officer said this, this 
detective said this, so you're 

2759
02:17:08,400 --> 02:17:12,500
adopting the case. 
And and that's my point to you, 

2760
02:17:12,508 --> 02:17:15,299
is that, or I guess to the 
audience is more like this is 

2761
02:17:15,299 --> 02:17:18,900
not a crazy idea that they would
want to take a case on but you 

2762
02:17:18,900 --> 02:17:20,100
have discretion. 
Yes. 

2763
02:17:20,100 --> 02:17:22,700
Because you are the supervisor, 
you're the, you know, and then 

2764
02:17:22,700 --> 02:17:25,600
obviously headquarters, I have 
to approve what would be a 

2765
02:17:25,600 --> 02:17:28,500
predicated investigation, which 
is the case opening and then all

2766
02:17:28,500 --> 02:17:31,000
the techniques are going to fall
underneath your name signed on. 

2767
02:17:31,000 --> 02:17:33,700
As the supervisor, yes, there's 
an agent associated with it. 

2768
02:17:33,900 --> 02:17:36,500
Who's going to be working in the
case and you were the one who 

2769
02:17:36,500 --> 02:17:38,400
said? 
Yes, I agree that this is a 

2770
02:17:38,400 --> 02:17:40,100
predicated law enforcement 
purpose under the following 

2771
02:17:40,100 --> 02:17:42,799
reasons and we have a reason to 
do it as an FBI so 

2772
02:17:42,799 --> 02:17:45,600
understandable. 
But there is some low bars 

2773
02:17:45,600 --> 02:17:46,799
there. 
It's open like a preliminary 

2774
02:17:46,799 --> 02:17:51,000
investigation and so forth but 
you've quickly got this, you 

2775
02:17:51,000 --> 02:17:54,600
know my own domestic terrorism. 
Headquarters is saying there's 

2776
02:17:54,600 --> 02:17:56,799
no there there's no evidence to 
support a probable cause 

2777
02:17:56,799 --> 02:17:59,200
statement they were going to 
write because they protest all 

2778
02:17:59,200 --> 02:18:02,000
the time with the same stupid 
regalia they show up in box 

2779
02:18:02,000 --> 02:18:04,799
trucks all the time. 
But you got the US turns out 

2780
02:18:04,807 --> 02:18:06,500
saying, no, no. 
We're leading this investigation

2781
02:18:06,500 --> 02:18:09,400
and you can't tell us that there
isn't probable cause until we've

2782
02:18:09,400 --> 02:18:14,000
had a chance to write it down. 
Oh, so that meeting ends with no

2783
02:18:14,000 --> 02:18:16,600
real consensus. 
Other than Zach will meet on a 

2784
02:18:16,600 --> 02:18:19,200
break-off meeting with a smaller
group again to try to find a way

2785
02:18:19,208 --> 02:18:22,299
forward. 
And then my special agent in 

2786
02:18:22,299 --> 02:18:23,400
charge of the Salt Lake 
division. 

2787
02:18:23,400 --> 02:18:26,400
Just simply says, Zach, find a 
way to work it out with us, 

2788
02:18:26,400 --> 02:18:28,600
attorney's office. 
Thanks for the leadership boss. 

2789
02:18:28,600 --> 02:18:33,500
You're Roger. 
So I meet and this is where Find

2790
02:18:33,500 --> 02:18:34,400
a way to work with you, 
Australia. 

2791
02:18:34,400 --> 02:18:36,400
So I found a way to work with 
the attorney's office, which was

2792
02:18:36,400 --> 02:18:40,200
their perspective was listen. 
We're going to write this. 

2793
02:18:40,200 --> 02:18:43,100
You guys can chill. 
We have questions, we'll ask 

2794
02:18:43,100 --> 02:18:44,900
you. 
You guys just can then just 

2795
02:18:44,900 --> 02:18:48,100
review it and decide if you were
comfortable, a testing to the 

2796
02:18:48,100 --> 02:18:49,900
warrant. 
So, again, it's like we'll do 

2797
02:18:49,900 --> 02:18:51,299
what the US attorney's office 
DJ. 

2798
02:18:51,299 --> 02:18:53,000
Well, we'll do all the heavy 
lifting for you. 

2799
02:18:54,000 --> 02:18:57,700
You guys, you know? 
Enroll for it. 

2800
02:18:57,700 --> 02:19:00,600
So again, it's like I said, 
okay, Jeremy Brown. 

2801
02:19:00,600 --> 02:19:03,400
I mean the whole idea. 
You gotta wrap up in the deal 

2802
02:19:03,400 --> 02:19:05,400
where they searched and then 
charge them something completely

2803
02:19:05,400 --> 02:19:06,500
different. 
What they found. 

2804
02:19:06,500 --> 02:19:09,900
You've got at that point maybe 
what 14, 15 years of experience 

2805
02:19:09,900 --> 02:19:10,700
in the bureau. 
Yes. 

2806
02:19:10,700 --> 02:19:12,500
How many times have you seen 
doj? 

2807
02:19:12,500 --> 02:19:14,600
Say we're going to write the the
affidavit you're going to just 

2808
02:19:14,600 --> 02:19:17,700
sign it when you get it never. 
Before there were some of that 

2809
02:19:17,700 --> 02:19:21,600
with the j6 investigations, 
obviously, we saw from my 

2810
02:19:21,600 --> 02:19:23,299
experience in the eastern 
district of Virginia. 

2811
02:19:23,299 --> 02:19:26,299
The Western District of Virginia
and the District of Idaho. 

2812
02:19:27,299 --> 02:19:31,299
Agents ask for warrants agents, 
write warrant affidavits 

2813
02:19:31,299 --> 02:19:35,500
probable cause affidavits they 
get proofread by the ausa's, 

2814
02:19:35,500 --> 02:19:40,200
assistant us attorneys and then 
they get jointly presented to a 

2815
02:19:40,200 --> 02:19:43,299
judge and the agent swears to 
the contents. 

2816
02:19:43,299 --> 02:19:47,600
The factual nature of that 
probable cause statement, I've 

2817
02:19:47,600 --> 02:19:51,400
written dozens and dozens and 
dozens of them, everything from 

2818
02:19:51,400 --> 02:19:54,100
search warrants to criminal 
complaint. 

2819
02:19:54,100 --> 02:19:56,100
Are you always arrest on a 
criminal complaint and then go 

2820
02:19:56,100 --> 02:19:57,900
to Grand Jury for indictment 
after the fact. 

2821
02:19:57,900 --> 02:19:59,900
Interesting. 
So that's not that common in the

2822
02:19:59,908 --> 02:20:02,400
FBI or at least a lot of field 
offices. 

2823
02:20:02,400 --> 02:20:03,800
That's not that common criminal 
complaints. 

2824
02:20:03,800 --> 02:20:07,200
All right District Virginia is 
known as the rocket docket, they

2825
02:20:07,200 --> 02:20:10,200
go really fast they actually 
adhere to the timeline of you 

2826
02:20:10,200 --> 02:20:12,500
know 60 days after a Raymond 
you're going to trial. 

2827
02:20:12,500 --> 02:20:14,800
So doing something on a criminal
complaint. 

2828
02:20:14,800 --> 02:20:17,500
Kind of buys you another two 
weeks for the arraignment time 

2829
02:20:17,500 --> 02:20:18,500
frame. 
Interesting. 

2830
02:20:18,500 --> 02:20:23,200
Anyway, And it doesn't make you 
a slave to the grand jury 

2831
02:20:23,200 --> 02:20:24,500
schedule. 
Because grand jury is usually 

2832
02:20:24,500 --> 02:20:26,800
only meet once or twice a month,
depending on your district. 

2833
02:20:26,800 --> 02:20:29,900
And I can get a criminal 
complaint, I can get a public 

2834
02:20:29,900 --> 02:20:31,900
house affidavit for a criminal 
complaint before judge. 

2835
02:20:32,600 --> 02:20:34,900
Any day night of the week, 
particularly in Eastern 

2836
02:20:34,900 --> 02:20:39,100
Virginia, where they ran an 
actual like that of Duty Master,

2837
02:20:39,100 --> 02:20:42,100
it could always get one didn't 
matter when, as long as you as 

2838
02:20:42,100 --> 02:20:43,800
Attorneys Office was on board 
that that was the direction we 

2839
02:20:43,800 --> 02:20:46,000
were ready to charge. 
We were preparing for trial. 

2840
02:20:46,000 --> 02:20:47,800
Yeah. 
But it was like, boom. 

2841
02:20:47,800 --> 02:20:48,900
Criminal complaint. 
Get it done. 

2842
02:20:48,900 --> 02:20:51,800
Will grand jury next week and 
we'll be Off to the Races? 

2843
02:20:51,800 --> 02:20:54,600
Yeah. 
All right, so I say that from 

2844
02:20:54,600 --> 02:20:57,200
the standpoint of like I am very
comfortable with what a probable

2845
02:20:57,200 --> 02:20:58,300
cause affidavits. 
Yeah. 

2846
02:20:58,300 --> 02:21:00,900
Right. 
Very comfortable and the two 

2847
02:21:00,908 --> 02:21:04,600
agents, which was 50% of my 
Quarter Lane office that I had 

2848
02:21:04,600 --> 02:21:07,200
assigned to assist the US, 
attorney's office, with whatever

2849
02:21:07,200 --> 02:21:11,600
questions that they had. 
Were both experienced criminal 

2850
02:21:11,600 --> 02:21:15,400
and one was also criminal and 
domestic terrorism agents. 

2851
02:21:15,400 --> 02:21:18,200
When I say experience, they both
had spent five years in Indian 

2852
02:21:18,200 --> 02:21:22,300
Country, so legitimate crimes 
search warrants for crime 

2853
02:21:22,300 --> 02:21:25,800
scenes. 
On repeat, so transactional. 

2854
02:21:25,800 --> 02:21:28,700
So for folks have, if you don't 
know this, we've talked about a 

2855
02:21:28,700 --> 02:21:29,900
little bit but Steve did that as
well. 

2856
02:21:29,908 --> 02:21:33,300
For I think six or seven years 
it's Major Crimes. 

2857
02:21:33,300 --> 02:21:36,900
A physical violence is being 
like a detective in a city. 

2858
02:21:36,900 --> 02:21:38,600
Except the city is an Indian 
reservation. 

2859
02:21:38,600 --> 02:21:42,600
And there's non-stop crime, 
sexual, assaults, rape homicide,

2860
02:21:42,600 --> 02:21:45,800
all kinds of ugly stuff 
happening regular repeated. 

2861
02:21:45,800 --> 02:21:49,600
And I know at least one of those
two agents pretty well went to 

2862
02:21:49,608 --> 02:21:52,100
the academy with South. 
So yeah so these are people that

2863
02:21:52,100 --> 02:21:52,800
know what they're doing. 
Yes. 

2864
02:21:52,800 --> 02:21:57,200
That's the way. 
It's a problem called statement 

2865
02:21:57,200 --> 02:22:00,000
was. 
So anyway, This is towards the 

2866
02:22:00,000 --> 02:22:03,100
end of that week. 
It is briefed up. 

2867
02:22:04,300 --> 02:22:06,900
To the deputy director of the 
FBI. 

2868
02:22:06,900 --> 02:22:12,100
Why my Sac from my briefing 
notes of The FBI has an 

2869
02:22:12,100 --> 02:22:14,500
assistance to local law 
enforcement case we are 

2870
02:22:14,500 --> 02:22:18,600
assisting local law enforcement.
The US attorney's office is 

2871
02:22:18,600 --> 02:22:20,300
expressed interest in getting a 
federal search. 

2872
02:22:20,300 --> 02:22:24,200
Warrant their writing it for the
purpose of assisting local law 

2873
02:22:24,200 --> 02:22:27,300
enforcement in searching. 
Those electronic devices that is

2874
02:22:27,308 --> 02:22:29,200
briefed up to the deputy 
director. 

2875
02:22:29,200 --> 02:22:33,500
I say that because everybody 
likes to ignore that later on in

2876
02:22:33,500 --> 02:22:36,000
the story and this is a 
misdemeanor case and this is a 

2877
02:22:36,000 --> 02:22:39,600
misdemeanor case. 
So Saturday morning. 

2878
02:22:39,600 --> 02:22:44,100
So it's not a week after the 
arrests Doja Office. 

2879
02:22:44,100 --> 02:22:49,900
Deliver this draft affidavit. 
My agents, get it, they work on 

2880
02:22:49,900 --> 02:22:51,500
it over the weekend, they review
it. 

2881
02:22:51,500 --> 02:22:54,200
They don't talk to me that much,
but I see some emails like 

2882
02:22:54,200 --> 02:22:56,400
they're reaching out to some of 
the other case agents that have 

2883
02:22:56,400 --> 02:22:58,600
previously investigated these 
individuals or the group, 

2884
02:22:59,300 --> 02:23:02,000
Getting spun up getting, you 
know, getting hard looks at it 

2885
02:23:02,000 --> 02:23:05,600
and then I get a look at the 
next week and I have some 

2886
02:23:05,600 --> 02:23:08,200
conversations with the agents 
and how uncomfortable they are 

2887
02:23:08,200 --> 02:23:12,100
with what's in there. 
Pictures of January 6th or in 

2888
02:23:12,100 --> 02:23:14,900
the affidavit. 
What this group was not known to

2889
02:23:14,900 --> 02:23:17,900
be at. 
The capitol or anywhere near 

2890
02:23:17,900 --> 02:23:21,000
Washington DC on January 6th. 
None of the third one 

2891
02:23:21,000 --> 02:23:23,700
individuals arrested were 
suspected of being at the 

2892
02:23:23,700 --> 02:23:27,300
Capitol on January 6th, yet 
there's photographs in the 

2893
02:23:27,300 --> 02:23:30,400
affidavit comparing them to 
individuals, breaking windows. 

2894
02:23:30,400 --> 02:23:33,400
And so forth at the Capitol. 
Emotional. 

2895
02:23:33,400 --> 02:23:37,100
It's an emotional affidavit. 
It is a the facts are the facts 

2896
02:23:37,100 --> 02:23:39,200
which is simply. 
These guys are arrested out of a

2897
02:23:39,208 --> 02:23:42,900
box truck with item ABC and D. 
Period. 

2898
02:23:43,600 --> 02:23:49,400
But then, it's Turning written. 
Conjecture. 

2899
02:23:49,400 --> 02:23:55,000
That says, well, I Ate it. 
AKA my special agents, believe 

2900
02:23:55,000 --> 02:23:59,500
from my training and experience 
that this smoke grenade, is 

2901
02:23:59,500 --> 02:24:03,500
there to cause panic and fear 
within a crowd, I believe, as 

2902
02:24:03,500 --> 02:24:08,100
the train law enforcement 
officer here that these right at

2903
02:24:08,100 --> 02:24:10,800
Shields are used to assault 
people. 

2904
02:24:11,900 --> 02:24:14,400
Just like they were using 
January 6th to assault law 

2905
02:24:14,400 --> 02:24:16,100
enforcement officers and break 
windows. 

2906
02:24:16,100 --> 02:24:20,900
So my agents review it, they 
edit it, they include additional

2907
02:24:20,900 --> 02:24:22,800
information to include 
information. 

2908
02:24:22,800 --> 02:24:26,500
They believe needs to be in 
there such as the number of 

2909
02:24:26,500 --> 02:24:30,500
protest events that these guys 
have been known to go to like 45

2910
02:24:30,500 --> 02:24:33,200
or something like that. 
In the last three years peaceful

2911
02:24:33,200 --> 02:24:37,100
they did find one event that was
somewhat not peaceful where they

2912
02:24:37,100 --> 02:24:39,400
counter protested and occupy Ice
event. 

2913
02:24:39,400 --> 02:24:41,300
They walked through the 
encampment kicked. 

2914
02:24:41,300 --> 02:24:43,000
Over a tenth knocked over a 
water cooler. 

2915
02:24:43,900 --> 02:24:46,700
You know, beat their chests and 
then walked off. 

2916
02:24:46,700 --> 02:24:49,400
No one was hurt. 
No, one was assaulted know. 

2917
02:24:49,400 --> 02:24:52,500
You know, they didn't throw 
javelin's or Fireballs or any of

2918
02:24:52,500 --> 02:24:54,200
that kind of stuff. 
It was a walk through kick the 

2919
02:24:54,200 --> 02:24:57,500
table over, you know, Said 
whatever they said and then it 

2920
02:24:57,500 --> 02:24:59,500
was like, all right guys we're 
leaving we're leaving, we're 

2921
02:24:59,500 --> 02:25:03,600
leaving in the old lift. 
But agents found that and put it

2922
02:25:03,608 --> 02:25:09,400
in there. by that next week, 
they also had a conversation 

2923
02:25:09,400 --> 02:25:15,600
with The ausa and Boise. 
And that he was say asked them 

2924
02:25:15,600 --> 02:25:17,800
Point Blank? 
Well, do you believe there's 

2925
02:25:17,800 --> 02:25:19,900
probable cause are you going to 
scrap this morning? 

2926
02:25:19,900 --> 02:25:21,800
And they're both said, no, 
ma'am. 

2927
02:25:21,800 --> 02:25:23,800
We don't believe there's 
probably cause, and no, I'm not 

2928
02:25:23,800 --> 02:25:29,400
comfortable saying that there is
before before a judge, and I've 

2929
02:25:30,100 --> 02:25:33,000
seen the written testimony of 
folks that listen to that 

2930
02:25:33,000 --> 02:25:36,500
conversation the bullpen because
I wasn't present and another 

2931
02:25:37,400 --> 02:25:41,000
Attorney in the room said, her 
hair was standing up on the back

2932
02:25:41,000 --> 02:25:43,700
of her neck. 
As she listened to an ausa 

2933
02:25:43,700 --> 02:25:47,500
disparage, and scream at FBI 
special agents for putting in 

2934
02:25:47,500 --> 02:25:52,200
exculpatory evidence. 
Into an affidavit and saying 

2935
02:25:52,200 --> 02:25:54,600
that she was going to have to go
back and Wordsmith this thing. 

2936
02:25:56,000 --> 02:25:58,700
So this is Canal getting into 
the end of week two. 

2937
02:25:59,600 --> 02:26:04,000
I have communications ordered to
me from FBI headquarters saying,

2938
02:26:04,000 --> 02:26:07,300
they're aware that there might 
be some disagreement over this 

2939
02:26:07,300 --> 02:26:10,700
affidavit and the headquarters 
FBI at this point. 

2940
02:26:10,700 --> 02:26:14,500
Once to make it clear, that they
are not supportive of any agent,

2941
02:26:14,500 --> 02:26:17,300
being pressured to attest to an 
affidavit that is factually 

2942
02:26:17,300 --> 02:26:19,500
inaccurate still on your team. 
They're still on Team America, 

2943
02:26:19,500 --> 02:26:24,400
and they compare that to the 
bureau has a long documented 

2944
02:26:24,400 --> 02:26:28,000
history of Agents, after the fox
saying that, they were pressured

2945
02:26:28,000 --> 02:26:30,400
to a test to warrants that they 
were not comfortable with 

2946
02:26:30,400 --> 02:26:34,800
testing to ARCA. 
Crossfire hurricane is placed in

2947
02:26:34,800 --> 02:26:37,300
the email. 
That's in the threat you're 

2948
02:26:37,300 --> 02:26:39,800
dealing with that in the email. 
Hey guys let's not repeat 

2949
02:26:39,800 --> 02:26:42,100
Crossfire hurricane like that. 
We're still got black eyes from 

2950
02:26:42,100 --> 02:26:46,300
that. 
So This is where the tide turns 

2951
02:26:46,300 --> 02:26:48,800
for me though. 
So by the end of that week, I 

2952
02:26:48,800 --> 02:26:55,100
have a conversation with this 
ausa. and, It's yeah, I'm well 

2953
02:26:55,100 --> 02:26:57,000
where your agents are not 
comfortable testing to this, but

2954
02:26:57,000 --> 02:26:59,800
I really think we're there and I
think we should find somebody 

2955
02:26:59,800 --> 02:27:03,300
else to swear this thing up. 
And I think if we moved it down 

2956
02:27:03,300 --> 02:27:06,300
to the supervisor in Boise, we'd
get this thing done. 

2957
02:27:06,300 --> 02:27:09,500
All right. 
Well, I don't know, I don't 

2958
02:27:09,508 --> 02:27:11,700
think their support for that in 
the bureau. 

2959
02:27:11,700 --> 02:27:14,900
I'm glad you recognized that my 
agents are not comfortable to 

2960
02:27:14,900 --> 02:27:16,500
testing to this. 
I'm going to go back and talk to

2961
02:27:16,500 --> 02:27:18,800
my team. 
And we'll come back and figure 

2962
02:27:18,800 --> 02:27:24,400
out where we're going here. 
So I message my assistant, 

2963
02:27:24,400 --> 02:27:26,200
special agent in charge and say,
hey, I just had this 

2964
02:27:26,200 --> 02:27:28,800
conversation with AIO. 
Say, can we have a chat about 

2965
02:27:28,800 --> 02:27:30,300
this? 
What is think the responses? 

2966
02:27:31,400 --> 02:27:34,500
No thanks. 
You can summarize that 

2967
02:27:34,500 --> 02:27:36,300
conversation in an email and 
send it to us. 

2968
02:27:36,300 --> 02:27:38,200
We can think about it before we 
talk to you. 

2969
02:27:38,200 --> 02:27:42,400
Why did he do that? 
Well, that's a great question 

2970
02:27:42,400 --> 02:27:44,900
because I'm like you want me to 
summarize a conversation with an

2971
02:27:44,900 --> 02:27:48,200
ausa like that isn't against the
loss on just rules but it's like

2972
02:27:48,200 --> 02:27:52,100
not good practice and all. 
So it's a real specific thing 

2973
02:27:52,100 --> 02:27:54,500
when someone starts telling you 
to put it in righting 100%. 

2974
02:27:54,500 --> 02:27:57,000
And but they're telling me that,
no, we're not comfortable 

2975
02:27:57,000 --> 02:28:00,500
talking to you right now because
we I'm no longer on team, 

2976
02:28:00,500 --> 02:28:04,800
whatever their team is I'm no 
longer on their team FBI. 

2977
02:28:05,700 --> 02:28:09,100
So they're wanting to be able to
think about it digest it, and 

2978
02:28:09,100 --> 02:28:12,400
then they'll call me. 
So I'm like, okay, so I separate

2979
02:28:12,400 --> 02:28:15,800
them. 100%. 
Yes, there it's, it's Fall Guy 

2980
02:28:15,800 --> 02:28:19,500
time. 
Yeah, so I do as instructed, 

2981
02:28:19,500 --> 02:28:22,500
it's a lawful order. 
I write up a summary and I send 

2982
02:28:22,500 --> 02:28:24,100
it with. 
Okay, you've got it. 

2983
02:28:24,100 --> 02:28:27,600
Can we talk about this now? 
Like we need to figure out where

2984
02:28:27,600 --> 02:28:31,000
we're going here. 
Know. 

2985
02:28:31,000 --> 02:28:34,100
Zach, we're not. 
Before we get on the phone and 

2986
02:28:34,100 --> 02:28:37,500
have another conversation about 
where this is going to go, you 

2987
02:28:37,500 --> 02:28:41,200
need to write up a plan with 
where we should go and email it 

2988
02:28:41,200 --> 02:28:42,500
to us. 
So The Weeknd think about it. 

2989
02:28:42,500 --> 02:28:46,600
What happens? 
I'm just I'm honestly I'm in 

2990
02:28:46,600 --> 02:28:49,700
disbelief because it's like this
is pretty clear cut agents are 

2991
02:28:49,700 --> 02:28:50,600
not comfortable with this 
warrant. 

2992
02:28:50,600 --> 02:28:52,700
It's been two weeks. 
The PD could have had a warrant 

2993
02:28:53,400 --> 02:28:56,300
A day after. 
We're slowing this down and 

2994
02:28:56,300 --> 02:28:58,100
you're smart enough to know 
you're walking into fire. 

2995
02:28:58,100 --> 02:28:59,700
Yeah. 
But what do I do about it? 

2996
02:28:59,700 --> 02:29:01,700
Right. 
You know I still have to abide 

2997
02:29:01,700 --> 02:29:06,800
by lawful instruction. 
I am covering my guys and like, 

2998
02:29:06,800 --> 02:29:10,400
you know, we're still quote 
unquote, helping the police 

2999
02:29:10,400 --> 02:29:13,600
department, by delaying. 
This thing by two weeks when I 

3000
02:29:13,600 --> 02:29:17,600
made it clear in the early 
meetings like we can lawfully, 

3001
02:29:17,600 --> 02:29:21,500
execute a state search warrant 
and be lawfully present for the 

3002
02:29:21,500 --> 02:29:23,100
discovery of evidence of another
crime. 

3003
02:29:23,100 --> 02:29:27,100
AKA a federal crime, right? 
We don't have to put the part in

3004
02:29:27,100 --> 02:29:30,300
front of the horse here. 
Um, but again, that what? 

3005
02:29:31,100 --> 02:29:33,400
I feel to read the room, and I 
think I said that in my 

3006
02:29:33,400 --> 02:29:37,700
interview with Miranda Devine 
of, this wasn't about, looking 

3007
02:29:37,700 --> 02:29:40,100
for evidence. 
This was about planting the flag

3008
02:29:40,100 --> 02:29:43,800
of doj's doing something about 
white, nationalism against one 

3009
02:29:43,800 --> 02:29:49,800
of our favorite groups and You 
know, this is gonna happen on 

3010
02:29:49,800 --> 02:29:51,400
time by time. 
I thought, yes, you just said 

3011
02:29:51,400 --> 02:29:53,400
something really interesting. 
I think that everybody missed 

3012
02:29:55,500 --> 02:29:57,300
This is a stand against white 
nationalism. 

3013
02:29:59,700 --> 02:30:03,800
For one of our favorite groups. 
So, That's an interesting thing.

3014
02:30:03,800 --> 02:30:06,500
You just said, yeah. 
Because then you're talking 

3015
02:30:06,500 --> 02:30:08,900
about favorite groups, who's the
favorite group? 

3016
02:30:08,900 --> 02:30:11,600
The lgbtq? 
Isn't it? 

3017
02:30:11,600 --> 02:30:14,300
Not which, in essence by 
comparison? 

3018
02:30:14,300 --> 02:30:15,500
I'm not putting words in your 
mouth. 

3019
02:30:15,500 --> 02:30:18,400
Sure, but I have studied I've 
watched her interviews. 

3020
02:30:18,400 --> 02:30:24,500
I've But oh I said this. 
I said Thank you before but It's

3021
02:30:24,500 --> 02:30:26,400
like the same thing with Kyle 
like you stood up when it was 

3022
02:30:26,400 --> 02:30:29,300
most unpopular thing, right? 
Doesn't matter. 

3023
02:30:30,600 --> 02:30:34,200
In fact, I don't care about 
anybody knowing LGB back for 

3024
02:30:34,200 --> 02:30:38,800
facts and they should always be 
facts but the lgbtq LGB what IQ,

3025
02:30:38,800 --> 02:30:42,500
what all that stuff. 
It's closely connected to this 

3026
02:30:42,508 --> 02:30:48,900
other thing called antifa. sure,
I mean, but again, it's They're 

3027
02:30:48,900 --> 02:30:51,300
not my favorite group but 
they're not might not favorited.

3028
02:30:51,300 --> 02:30:52,900
But like, I don't care. 
There were a law group of 

3029
02:30:52,900 --> 02:30:55,200
citizens that every right to be 
whatever you want. 

3030
02:30:55,208 --> 02:30:58,700
And every right to be there in 
the park, you know, you know, 

3031
02:30:58,700 --> 02:31:02,600
with their, lgbtq proud of it. 
And I had supported that with 

3032
02:31:02,600 --> 02:31:04,000
sharing of intelligence to be 
there. 

3033
02:31:04,000 --> 02:31:06,600
Like, I had concerns for 
American citizens, you didn't 

3034
02:31:06,600 --> 02:31:09,900
have favorites know. 
Yeah, if anything I was 

3035
02:31:09,900 --> 02:31:13,700
definitively not looking super 
positively at the Patriot front 

3036
02:31:13,700 --> 02:31:14,900
group. 
I'm like, these guys have cost 

3037
02:31:14,900 --> 02:31:16,600
me nothing but headaches, and 
they look like a bunch of 

3038
02:31:16,600 --> 02:31:18,700
idiots. 
There was you. 

3039
02:31:18,700 --> 02:31:26,600
All right, so I write another 
email as instructed of this is 

3040
02:31:26,600 --> 02:31:29,000
my recommendation. 
I make it clear. 

3041
02:31:29,000 --> 02:31:31,800
My agents have stated in the US 
attorney's. 

3042
02:31:31,800 --> 02:31:33,300
Office is recognized. 
They are not comfortable. 

3043
02:31:33,300 --> 02:31:36,600
A testing to the factual 
contents of this warrant. 

3044
02:31:36,600 --> 02:31:38,600
So we have an option here. 
Two options. 

3045
02:31:39,400 --> 02:31:41,700
One. 
We support my agents. 

3046
02:31:42,900 --> 02:31:45,300
And we let the PD get its own 
search for him. 

3047
02:31:45,300 --> 02:31:49,000
And I said, hey I want the SEC 
to help me message that to the 

3048
02:31:49,008 --> 02:31:52,100
city because we've been sticking
our finger in there for two 

3049
02:31:52,100 --> 02:31:55,200
weeks. 
And message that video streams 

3050
02:31:55,200 --> 02:31:56,900
office because they're clearly 
motivated with this thing. 

3051
02:31:56,908 --> 02:32:02,100
Yep, or if that is unacceptable,
then we as the FBI need to 

3052
02:32:02,100 --> 02:32:04,500
regain some control. 
Here we management. 

3053
02:32:04,500 --> 02:32:06,700
Need to look at the facts of 
this and either. 

3054
02:32:06,700 --> 02:32:09,500
Again, come to our conclusion 
that we independently agree with

3055
02:32:09,500 --> 02:32:10,900
our agencies, there is no PC 
here. 

3056
02:32:10,900 --> 02:32:15,900
And or if we do think that there
is PC, here is management. 

3057
02:32:15,900 --> 02:32:19,900
Then we FBI should write our own
search warrant and either find 

3058
02:32:19,900 --> 02:32:22,200
myself or another agent that can
write it. 

3059
02:32:22,200 --> 02:32:25,700
However, The court needs to 
know. 

3060
02:32:26,900 --> 02:32:29,700
That I've had agents reviewed 
permanent previous efforts to 

3061
02:32:29,700 --> 02:32:32,000
write a search warrant and they 
didn't feel like there's 

3062
02:32:32,000 --> 02:32:34,600
probable cause we need to be 
transparent with the courts. 

3063
02:32:34,600 --> 02:32:37,600
That is our job. 
We don't play hiding things from

3064
02:32:37,600 --> 02:32:41,400
the court. 
Now, I am that with. 

3065
02:32:41,400 --> 02:32:45,000
Can we please talk about this? 
Where are we going to go here? 

3066
02:32:45,000 --> 02:32:49,800
This is getting to be a little 
bit serious and I'm in this Penn

3067
02:32:49,800 --> 02:32:51,200
State of like. 
This isn't complicated. 

3068
02:32:51,200 --> 02:32:53,500
Folks like right is right. 
Wrong is wrong facts or facts? 

3069
02:32:53,500 --> 02:32:56,300
We could let the PD get their 
search warrant tomorrow and we 

3070
02:32:56,300 --> 02:32:59,700
could be executing these search 
warrants, but again, I feel to 

3071
02:32:59,700 --> 02:33:01,700
read the room. 
It wasn't about the facts. 

3072
02:33:01,700 --> 02:33:04,300
Was an about what evidence might
be on those phones. 

3073
02:33:04,300 --> 02:33:06,700
It was about the act of planting
a flag. 

3074
02:33:06,700 --> 02:33:08,700
And again, this is my personal 
opinion. 

3075
02:33:09,700 --> 02:33:13,000
Of reading the room and what I 
missed, and this ship was going 

3076
02:33:13,000 --> 02:33:17,000
to sail regardless. 
So do I get a response to that 

3077
02:33:17,008 --> 02:33:18,100
last email? 
No. 

3078
02:33:19,300 --> 02:33:23,400
No, and that's Friday night 
Saturday goes by Sunday, goes by

3079
02:33:23,400 --> 02:33:26,600
Monday morning. 
The sac. 

3080
02:33:26,600 --> 02:33:30,000
So specialized in charge Salt 
Lake division is in my ra on a 

3081
02:33:30,008 --> 02:33:30,900
previously. 
Scheduled, you know? 

3082
02:33:30,908 --> 02:33:36,700
Temperature check tour. 
I message the asec goes now 

3083
02:33:36,700 --> 02:33:40,400
Monday, can we talk about this? 
You bet Zach go to your office. 

3084
02:33:41,200 --> 02:33:44,800
so, I get called in for a phone,
call with the three aspects in 

3085
02:33:44,800 --> 02:33:49,200
the council, the chief division 
counsel, And I get my butt 

3086
02:33:49,200 --> 02:33:53,500
handed to me reamed out. 
You shouldn't never have sent 

3087
02:33:53,500 --> 02:33:56,500
those emails. 
Those emails are going to be 

3088
02:33:56,508 --> 02:33:59,100
reviewed as prejudicial to any 
search warrant we ever do. 

3089
02:33:59,100 --> 02:34:01,500
So we're done here and it's your
fault Zack. 

3090
02:34:01,500 --> 02:34:02,200
Like. 
All right. 

3091
02:34:02,208 --> 02:34:04,600
Well, there's the Fall Guy that 
we were looking for but we're I 

3092
02:34:04,600 --> 02:34:08,000
was like, but to be clear we're 
done here. yep, no PD can get 

3093
02:34:08,008 --> 02:34:12,100
their own search for him like 
Roger that go out. 

3094
02:34:12,100 --> 02:34:15,400
Tell my two agents guys were 
told to stand down the city's. 

3095
02:34:15,400 --> 02:34:17,400
Gonna get their own search, 
warrant will get it out and 

3096
02:34:17,400 --> 02:34:20,200
they're all like God because 
they're under pressure doesn't 

3097
02:34:20,200 --> 02:34:22,600
matter that I'm trying to stand 
in the way like the pressure 

3098
02:34:23,500 --> 02:34:25,700
Seats past. 
They know what's going on. 

3099
02:34:25,700 --> 02:34:30,100
They're not dumb, nope. 
So Special agent, charges in the

3100
02:34:30,100 --> 02:34:33,700
office. 
This is a bit of a big thing in 

3101
02:34:33,700 --> 02:34:36,200
the news under all this pressure
from doj. 

3102
02:34:36,200 --> 02:34:37,800
Do you think he brings it up 
with me? 

3103
02:34:37,800 --> 02:34:41,400
Know, do you think in I invite 
him to like our Monday morning 

3104
02:34:41,400 --> 02:34:43,200
Roundtable, kind of deal to 
think he brings it up? 

3105
02:34:43,200 --> 02:34:45,900
No. 
So when he asks, all right guys,

3106
02:34:45,900 --> 02:34:48,400
so kind of talked to me about 
like what are some difficult 

3107
02:34:48,400 --> 02:34:50,100
relationships? 
You deal with around here and 

3108
02:34:50,100 --> 02:34:53,900
it's crickets and my my squad 
table explain why that is though

3109
02:34:54,700 --> 02:34:57,100
Like, why he's asking know why 
nobody ever asked? 

3110
02:34:57,100 --> 02:35:00,000
Nobody wants to answer this 
because again, it's the elephant

3111
02:35:00,000 --> 02:35:02,000
in the room. 
But, again, I'm the type of guy 

3112
02:35:02,000 --> 02:35:03,600
that will have that 
uncomfortable conversation. 

3113
02:35:03,600 --> 02:35:06,400
So I just like sir. 
Well, the obvious elephant in 

3114
02:35:06,400 --> 02:35:08,200
the room is some of the 
difficult conversations or 

3115
02:35:08,200 --> 02:35:11,300
difficult relationships with 
this us, attorney's office, and 

3116
02:35:11,300 --> 02:35:15,800
he just kind of goes So all 
right, you guys have a great 

3117
02:35:15,800 --> 02:35:17,800
day. 
He goes on, and then he goes 

3118
02:35:17,800 --> 02:35:20,600
outside my building and spends 
like the next hour plus on the 

3119
02:35:20,608 --> 02:35:22,600
phone and then I get a call 
back. 

3120
02:35:23,400 --> 02:35:25,800
All the same assistance, special
agents in charge and chief 

3121
02:35:25,800 --> 02:35:27,100
justice in California on the 
phone with me. 

3122
02:35:27,100 --> 02:35:29,600
Zach, you'll just regard that 
previous instruction. 

3123
02:35:29,600 --> 02:35:32,500
You will continue to support the
US, attorney's office, while 

3124
02:35:32,500 --> 02:35:36,900
they redraft, the affidavit and 
your agents will review it for 

3125
02:35:36,900 --> 02:35:41,400
probable cause Okay, that's a 
lawful instruction. 

3126
02:35:41,400 --> 02:35:47,600
So I was like Roger go back out 
to guys were back on the sac. 

3127
02:35:47,600 --> 02:35:50,200
Always wanted to meet Partners. 
So there was a ninth Circuit 

3128
02:35:50,200 --> 02:35:52,400
Judge that has this Chambers and
Coeur d'Alene phenomenal human 

3129
02:35:52,400 --> 02:35:55,500
being. 
I reach out to him. 

3130
02:35:55,500 --> 02:35:57,700
Sir. 
Can we come over as a seasonal? 

3131
02:35:57,700 --> 02:35:59,600
Yep. 
Absolutely. 

3132
02:35:59,600 --> 02:36:02,800
Come on over, here's the time. 
So it's mid-afternoon I take the

3133
02:36:02,800 --> 02:36:04,900
SEC over, we spent an hour and a
half two in the fat. 

3134
02:36:04,900 --> 02:36:07,900
With this judge judge is a great
supporter of mine and he's like,

3135
02:36:07,900 --> 02:36:12,100
hey, you know, Sac snuffle off 
against you got a great agent 

3136
02:36:12,100 --> 02:36:17,800
here, Robert Ross. 
We're leaving and the sac is 

3137
02:36:17,800 --> 02:36:21,500
making it very clear. 
He wants to Courtland like coach

3138
02:36:21,500 --> 02:36:22,700
coming off. 
Ty's coming off. 

3139
02:36:22,700 --> 02:36:24,600
He's getting ready. 
To get his Tahoe and I stop it. 

3140
02:36:24,600 --> 02:36:28,400
I'm like sir. 
And we, please talk about this 

3141
02:36:28,400 --> 02:36:32,100
Patriot front search warrant 
matter looks right at me and he 

3142
02:36:32,108 --> 02:36:34,400
says Zack. 
Sorry, but I don't really know 

3143
02:36:34,400 --> 02:36:36,100
anything about that. 
So I'm leaving it to you in the 

3144
02:36:36,108 --> 02:36:38,200
a sack. 
I know. 

3145
02:36:38,208 --> 02:36:39,200
We're sorry about that. 
Bye. 

3146
02:36:40,900 --> 02:36:44,500
So then I call up, I get in my 
car drive back to the office. 

3147
02:36:45,700 --> 02:36:48,100
That's leadership in quotes. 
Why are they all gutless? 

3148
02:36:48,100 --> 02:36:50,600
That's like I don't I don't know
any other way to say it, but 

3149
02:36:50,600 --> 02:36:53,100
they none of them have any 
courage of conviction where 

3150
02:36:53,100 --> 02:36:55,300
they're like, yeah, maybe people
might not well like, what I'm 

3151
02:36:55,300 --> 02:36:56,600
going to do, but I'm the guy who
gets to. 

3152
02:36:56,600 --> 02:36:59,500
I'm just theoretically, this 
special agent in charge of the 

3153
02:36:59,500 --> 02:37:01,600
field office. 
And they never want to be in 

3154
02:37:01,600 --> 02:37:02,800
charge. 
It goes back to the culture 

3155
02:37:02,800 --> 02:37:04,900
thing that I talked about 
earlier about a failure of 

3156
02:37:04,900 --> 02:37:06,900
leadership culture. 
It's just so like from the 

3157
02:37:06,900 --> 02:37:09,500
outside, people have no idea, 
you see these people, they want 

3158
02:37:09,500 --> 02:37:11,500
to take the press conference, 
they want to get out in front of

3159
02:37:11,500 --> 02:37:13,200
the news cameras. 
They always want to get out 

3160
02:37:13,200 --> 02:37:15,100
there and brief up on what my 
guys are doing. 

3161
02:37:15,100 --> 02:37:18,200
But you notice the minute, like,
guys, like a Steve Dano gets 

3162
02:37:18,200 --> 02:37:19,700
asked by a chrome, you know, 
member of Congress. 

3163
02:37:19,700 --> 02:37:20,900
Hey, tell me about the pipe bomb
case. 

3164
02:37:20,900 --> 02:37:22,400
They're like, look, I'm just the
guy in charge. 

3165
02:37:22,400 --> 02:37:24,500
I don't actually know what's 
happening investigation. 

3166
02:37:24,500 --> 02:37:27,600
The minute that involves any 
responsibility, they run from 

3167
02:37:27,600 --> 02:37:29,200
it. 
And what you're saying? 

3168
02:37:29,200 --> 02:37:32,900
It's ubiquitous it's just so 
crazy that it doesn't matter who

3169
02:37:32,900 --> 02:37:34,100
it is. 
I don't even need to know who 

3170
02:37:34,100 --> 02:37:35,400
that person is because it's the 
same one. 

3171
02:37:35,400 --> 02:37:36,300
That was my essay. 
Sure. 

3172
02:37:36,300 --> 02:37:38,700
They're all the same that the 
same person, but here's the 

3173
02:37:38,700 --> 02:37:41,000
problem with everything that you
said, I always like to look at 

3174
02:37:41,000 --> 02:37:44,000
what is isn't said not, what is 
said, it's like you walk up 

3175
02:37:44,000 --> 02:37:45,600
along, you do the same thing on 
investig. 

3176
02:37:45,700 --> 02:37:48,900
The spot that's the spot you're 
looking at for the crime 

3177
02:37:48,900 --> 02:37:50,200
committed or anything else, 
right? 

3178
02:37:50,200 --> 02:37:52,700
That's the the elephant in the 
room. 

3179
02:37:53,400 --> 02:37:56,200
Who is the person that is. 
Pushing the buttons. 

3180
02:37:56,900 --> 02:38:00,200
Downstream to get to you. 
That is saying this is why 

3181
02:38:00,200 --> 02:38:02,900
there's a Fear Factor. 
There's something that's not 

3182
02:38:02,900 --> 02:38:05,000
being said in this. 
That there's one person pulling 

3183
02:38:05,000 --> 02:38:08,000
strings to make sure that 
there's an outcome that they 

3184
02:38:08,008 --> 02:38:10,700
wanted to have happen. 
And it's not the US, it's not 

3185
02:38:10,700 --> 02:38:13,800
the assistant us attorney. 
It's someone totally different 

3186
02:38:13,800 --> 02:38:15,600
above them. 
That's pushing it down this 

3187
02:38:15,600 --> 02:38:17,900
satisfies to be a doj main 
thing. 

3188
02:38:17,908 --> 02:38:20,900
So, Ultra speeding, my 
understanding belief. 

3189
02:38:20,900 --> 02:38:24,800
Also, my belief, everything I 
know post fact, is it this 

3190
02:38:24,800 --> 02:38:28,800
juncture that Monday? 
It's the US attorney Joshua, the

3191
02:38:28,800 --> 02:38:32,400
District of Idaho pushing on my 
Sac, who was a politician who is

3192
02:38:32,400 --> 02:38:34,500
a politician, but the end of the
week. 

3193
02:38:35,700 --> 02:38:37,400
It's Lisa, Monaco. 
The deputy attorney general, 

3194
02:38:37,400 --> 02:38:39,500
which is exactly why would 
assume it would go. 

3195
02:38:39,500 --> 02:38:42,300
Because that's exactly the face 
that I was seeing when I'm here 

3196
02:38:42,300 --> 02:38:44,100
in the South. 
And that's so troubling because 

3197
02:38:44,100 --> 02:38:46,900
it's so predictable that the OJ 
May and for people who don't 

3198
02:38:46,900 --> 02:38:49,500
understand, Merrick Garland may 
be the face as the Attorney 

3199
02:38:49,500 --> 02:38:51,900
General. 
But the person who runs the FBI 

3200
02:38:51,900 --> 02:38:55,600
is the deputy director and the 
person who runs the doj has been

3201
02:38:55,600 --> 02:38:59,200
Lisa Monica. 
So you have to look at this from

3202
02:38:59,200 --> 02:39:00,800
the other perspective, this is 
organized crime. 

3203
02:39:00,800 --> 02:39:04,000
I mean that's what it is. 
I mean when you when you open 

3204
02:39:04,000 --> 02:39:06,900
eyes the doj, I think this is 
one of the things the president 

3205
02:39:06,900 --> 02:39:09,700
Trump addressed in one of his 
executive orders when you 

3206
02:39:09,700 --> 02:39:12,700
weaponize the doj and you do. 
So in such a way to punish 

3207
02:39:12,700 --> 02:39:14,800
people Downstream, it's working 
those crumbs. 

3208
02:39:14,800 --> 02:39:18,700
No difference between that now 
Al Capone in my opinion and look

3209
02:39:18,700 --> 02:39:23,500
I'm not putting words in your 
mouth but at some point You talk

3210
02:39:23,500 --> 02:39:26,500
about that. 
It has to be the The culture of 

3211
02:39:26,500 --> 02:39:28,800
it. 
I mean this this is dangerous. 

3212
02:39:28,800 --> 02:39:32,100
I mean what you went through is 
actually dangerous because that 

3213
02:39:32,100 --> 02:39:34,500
means that you're one of the 
cases that we get to see. 

3214
02:39:34,508 --> 02:39:35,700
You're one of the cases, we get 
to see. 

3215
02:39:36,500 --> 02:39:40,200
But the pervasiveness of this 
inside of our apparatus is more.

3216
02:39:41,000 --> 02:39:42,300
I mean, how do you get to the 
bottom of that? 

3217
02:39:42,300 --> 02:39:44,000
It's not all the time. 
That's the crazy part, right? 

3218
02:39:44,000 --> 02:39:46,400
Like, you saw it one time in 16 
years, it just turned out to be 

3219
02:39:46,408 --> 02:39:49,200
like career fatal, but it's, but
it's, but it's not every day and

3220
02:39:49,200 --> 02:39:51,700
it's not every field office and 
it's not all the time and when 

3221
02:39:51,700 --> 02:39:53,400
it does happen, it's this. 
Yes. 

3222
02:39:53,400 --> 02:39:55,200
And they just go after you, 
you're the problem. 

3223
02:39:55,200 --> 02:39:58,600
Yeah, so all right carry on 
you've got Lisa Monaco. 

3224
02:39:58,600 --> 02:40:02,100
Now he's and you're in freaking 
Quarter Lane Idaho, which 

3225
02:40:02,100 --> 02:40:05,300
trampoline to understand. 
You have four agents, Man, Four 

3226
02:40:05,300 --> 02:40:06,000
Seasons. 
Quarterland. 

3227
02:40:06,000 --> 02:40:08,500
I've got three in Lewiston. 
And then I've got a handful of 

3228
02:40:08,500 --> 02:40:11,500
support and task force rate 
yourself on a scale of one to 

3229
02:40:11,500 --> 02:40:13,400
10. 
The Quarter Lane SS, the Quarter

3230
02:40:13,400 --> 02:40:15,100
Lane ra. 
Where is that in the importance?

3231
02:40:15,100 --> 02:40:18,000
For the national mission of the 
FBI for visibility just so but 

3232
02:40:18,000 --> 02:40:19,700
what do you think? 
What time 10 points? 

3233
02:40:19,700 --> 02:40:23,500
I mean it's just don't it. 
Well like we were primarily a 

3234
02:40:23,500 --> 02:40:26,800
Indian Country violent crime, 
maybe a little bit of drugs, a 

3235
02:40:26,800 --> 02:40:27,700
little bit of white collar 
stuff. 

3236
02:40:27,700 --> 02:40:30,700
Kind of RA how many times were 
your case is making the 

3237
02:40:30,700 --> 02:40:33,300
directors Daily Brief, you think
in a year. 

3238
02:40:33,308 --> 02:40:38,800
I mean it probably zero, you 
know, some of you know the again

3239
02:40:38,800 --> 02:40:40,900
you know, the stove pipes in the
bureau, you know some of the 

3240
02:40:40,900 --> 02:40:42,200
Indian country because we had a 
murder. 

3241
02:40:42,200 --> 02:40:44,700
We had an agent Squad agent that
was shot just before I got 

3242
02:40:44,700 --> 02:40:48,900
there, you know, executing a 
search warrant so again but 

3243
02:40:48,900 --> 02:40:51,600
violent crime stuff. 
But again this happens across 

3244
02:40:51,600 --> 02:40:54,200
the bureau like you know, 
something hits the media and the

3245
02:40:54,200 --> 02:40:57,100
bureau reacts to it it gets to 
the dangers of it. 

3246
02:40:57,100 --> 02:41:00,100
The reaction when the culture is
what the culture is, that 

3247
02:41:00,100 --> 02:41:04,500
reaction can be very bad in my 
case, it led all the way to, you

3248
02:41:04,500 --> 02:41:07,800
know, Attorneys agents, 
perjuring themselves, 

3249
02:41:07,808 --> 02:41:11,900
obstruction of justice, and 
federal courts, Etc. 

3250
02:41:11,900 --> 02:41:16,600
So, I reach out to the ASAC 
assistant, special agent, 

3251
02:41:16,600 --> 02:41:18,600
charge. 
I can't get this to you, to talk

3252
02:41:18,600 --> 02:41:20,000
to me about this. 
He's like, well Zach. 

3253
02:41:22,200 --> 02:41:25,800
The US attorney. 
Is complaining about you to the 

3254
02:41:25,800 --> 02:41:29,800
sac that you guys are not Jews 
helping them, and giving them 

3255
02:41:29,800 --> 02:41:31,200
everything they want for this 
warrant. 

3256
02:41:31,200 --> 02:41:34,000
And I'm like, like, what sir? 
He's like, I don't know. 

3257
02:41:34,000 --> 02:41:35,900
Zach, it's your job to figure 
that out. 

3258
02:41:37,500 --> 02:41:40,700
Like, okay, so I get back to the
office and I'm like, guys, 

3259
02:41:40,700 --> 02:41:44,900
what's happening like well? 
Since you left, the phone's been

3260
02:41:44,900 --> 02:41:48,500
ringing from the ausa with a 
laundry list of questions, we've

3261
02:41:48,500 --> 02:41:50,200
been working on answering like, 
okay, Roger that. 

3262
02:41:50,200 --> 02:41:53,600
Well, I'm calling, they would 
say because supposedly they're 

3263
02:41:53,600 --> 02:41:59,500
complaining. she calls me back 
the next day and my It's just 

3264
02:41:59,500 --> 02:42:02,400
again, pretty well. 
Just point blank, it's listen. 

3265
02:42:04,300 --> 02:42:05,700
I understand there's been some 
complaints. 

3266
02:42:07,000 --> 02:42:08,400
You guys are supposedly wanting 
stuff. 

3267
02:42:09,500 --> 02:42:11,200
There's clearly a 
miscommunication here because 

3268
02:42:11,200 --> 02:42:13,400
neither I nor my agents are 
aware of stuff that you've been 

3269
02:42:13,400 --> 02:42:14,500
asking for that. 
We haven't given. 

3270
02:42:14,500 --> 02:42:18,300
So when you want something, 
please email it to my agents. 

3271
02:42:18,300 --> 02:42:21,100
So we know exactly what it is 
that you want and then we can 

3272
02:42:21,100 --> 02:42:22,300
track that, we get it back to 
you. 

3273
02:42:23,100 --> 02:42:26,400
So then it's email email. 
I'm watching this course on. 

3274
02:42:26,400 --> 02:42:28,900
Let's go back and forth through 
my agency and I watch them do 

3275
02:42:28,900 --> 02:42:31,000
their thing. 
I'm well aware that they're 

3276
02:42:31,000 --> 02:42:33,400
drafting a second version of 
Seth, David nothing I can do 

3277
02:42:33,400 --> 02:42:36,000
about it. 
Well, the communication from my 

3278
02:42:36,000 --> 02:42:39,500
leadership team. 
My management team to leadership

3279
02:42:39,500 --> 02:42:40,200
off, they will. 
That's right. 

3280
02:42:40,200 --> 02:42:44,400
Is that hey, once they're done, 
we want to know what status is 

3281
02:42:44,400 --> 02:42:46,800
your agents can review for PC. 
And we're done here, like 

3282
02:42:46,800 --> 02:42:52,700
review, for PC review, for PC 
review, for probable cause So by

3283
02:42:52,700 --> 02:42:55,500
the end of that week, I see 
emails between my agents and a 

3284
02:42:55,500 --> 02:42:58,700
USA's where my agents are saying
hey we haven't heard from you in

3285
02:42:58,700 --> 02:43:01,200
a day. 
Anything else anything else that

3286
02:43:01,200 --> 02:43:03,100
you need a was saying comes 
back. 

3287
02:43:03,100 --> 02:43:07,200
No affidavit looks great after 
everything you gave us. 

3288
02:43:07,200 --> 02:43:09,600
It's back with doj. 
We're waiting for it to come 

3289
02:43:09,600 --> 02:43:11,100
back to us. 
We'll reveal it. 

3290
02:43:11,100 --> 02:43:13,500
Do our edits and then we'll send
it to you as soon as we're done.

3291
02:43:15,000 --> 02:43:19,300
That very same day. 
I now know that they're saying. 

3292
02:43:19,300 --> 02:43:21,300
Hey high, five FBI, thank you 
for everything. 

3293
02:43:21,300 --> 02:43:24,500
Josh hurwit is communicating up 
to doj. 

3294
02:43:24,500 --> 02:43:28,000
FBI is a real problem here. 
We're not going to get what we 

3295
02:43:28,000 --> 02:43:31,300
want out of them. 
We've got a real issue. 

3296
02:43:31,300 --> 02:43:35,100
Yeah. 
Um, And the same time that he is

3297
02:43:35,100 --> 02:43:37,200
then having phone calls with 
them about that. 

3298
02:43:37,200 --> 02:43:40,400
He's calling me. 
And saying. 

3299
02:43:41,400 --> 02:43:43,700
Hey, just want to say, thanks 
for everything you've done for 

3300
02:43:43,700 --> 02:43:45,300
us and, you know, we should be 
expected. 

3301
02:43:45,300 --> 02:43:46,800
We don't know exactly where 
we're going to get this warm, 

3302
02:43:46,800 --> 02:43:49,700
but it should be coming soon. 
And my responses. 

3303
02:43:49,700 --> 02:43:52,500
Okay, well please keep me in the
loop and when this is all done, 

3304
02:43:52,500 --> 02:43:54,700
you and I are going to talk 
about this because this is never

3305
02:43:54,700 --> 02:43:58,000
going to happen again. 
He's like, okay. 

3306
02:43:58,900 --> 02:44:01,400
At that point, there was a 
rolling stone article that had 

3307
02:44:01,400 --> 02:44:03,400
come out about, you know, like 
the FBI's knowledge of patriot 

3308
02:44:03,400 --> 02:44:07,500
front and I'm like, have you 
seen this to him like Hey we're 

3309
02:44:07,500 --> 02:44:10,100
all supposed to get some doxxing
threats like I'm having my age 

3310
02:44:10,100 --> 02:44:12,800
it's kind of you know, batten 
down the hatches on that front. 

3311
02:44:12,800 --> 02:44:15,000
We've got kind of a checklist 
that they run for, you know, 

3312
02:44:15,000 --> 02:44:17,600
boxing threats, Etc. 
Because again there's that, you 

3313
02:44:17,600 --> 02:44:19,700
know, they're feds, you know, 
picture, France, feds and then 

3314
02:44:19,700 --> 02:44:22,200
it's, you know, they're going 
after right Wingers and Etc. 

3315
02:44:22,200 --> 02:44:26,100
So by the next week, a couple 
more questions come out. 

3316
02:44:27,500 --> 02:44:31,200
Um, you had had an incident in 
Boston with a patriot front, 

3317
02:44:31,200 --> 02:44:34,300
again, made news for an 
altercation with an 

3318
02:44:34,300 --> 02:44:38,200
African-American male there. 
And I reached out to the 

3319
02:44:38,200 --> 02:44:42,700
supervisor in Boston and he's 
like, hey Yep. 

3320
02:44:42,700 --> 02:44:44,900
We're aware. 
We do have a guardian assessment

3321
02:44:44,900 --> 02:44:46,700
open. 
We are also getting a ton of 

3322
02:44:46,700 --> 02:44:49,200
pressure from the Australians 
office out here to get these 

3323
02:44:49,200 --> 02:44:51,800
guys indicted. 
He's like, however word of 

3324
02:44:51,800 --> 02:44:55,500
caution, there's a very mixed 
Story coming out of this. 

3325
02:44:55,500 --> 02:44:58,700
So the police report, you know, 
came from the individual that 

3326
02:44:58,700 --> 02:45:01,200
said he was assaulted and got 
his finger cut. 

3327
02:45:03,300 --> 02:45:06,200
But he's no longer Cooperative 
with us with the police 

3328
02:45:06,200 --> 02:45:08,400
department or even with the 
mayor of this trying to talk to 

3329
02:45:08,400 --> 02:45:12,400
him and our officers that showed
up on scene, saw something very 

3330
02:45:12,400 --> 02:45:14,700
different. 
And we're we're trying to get to

3331
02:45:14,708 --> 02:45:16,500
the bottom of that. 
I was like, okay. 

3332
02:45:17,500 --> 02:45:18,300
Check. 
Raj. 

3333
02:45:18,300 --> 02:45:21,200
All right, well by Wednesday of 
that week. 

3334
02:45:21,200 --> 02:45:23,500
So it's literally almost a 
month. 

3335
02:45:24,300 --> 02:45:28,300
After the arrest. 
Second draft comes down and I'm 

3336
02:45:28,300 --> 02:45:31,200
like guys reviewed 
independently, if you're 

3337
02:45:31,200 --> 02:45:33,200
comfortable with this warrant no
problem. 

3338
02:45:33,900 --> 02:45:37,400
You swear it out, I'll open a 
predicated case and we'll all 

3339
02:45:37,400 --> 02:45:39,300
move on with our lives. 
But if you're not comfortable 

3340
02:45:39,300 --> 02:45:42,000
with this warrant, no problem. 
You just got to tell me why. 

3341
02:45:42,000 --> 02:45:44,000
And we'll move on with our 
lives. 

3342
02:45:44,900 --> 02:45:47,200
They both come back. 
Want the main guy says, can I 

3343
02:45:47,208 --> 02:45:48,600
sleep on this? 
I'm like, sure. 

3344
02:45:48,600 --> 02:45:49,900
You want to go out and do some 
PT. 

3345
02:45:49,900 --> 02:45:52,200
He's like, yes please. 
So we just go out into the yard 

3346
02:45:52,200 --> 02:45:55,500
of the ra, we do some PT, we'll 
have some stress and I was like,

3347
02:45:55,500 --> 02:45:56,900
hey man, go home. 
Sleep on it. 

3348
02:45:56,908 --> 02:46:00,400
Come talk to me in the morning. 
So I'm obviously my phone's 

3349
02:46:00,400 --> 02:46:01,600
blowing up. 
Hey, they made a decision. 

3350
02:46:01,600 --> 02:46:03,300
Have they made a decision? 
I'm like, they're sleeping on 

3351
02:46:03,300 --> 02:46:04,700
it. 
They'll come back to me when 

3352
02:46:04,700 --> 02:46:08,000
they're ready. 
And they do independently they 

3353
02:46:08,000 --> 02:46:10,200
both the agents that I've had 
working on this for months come 

3354
02:46:10,200 --> 02:46:13,500
back to me and they're both say 
we we can't swear this out. 

3355
02:46:13,508 --> 02:46:15,500
This thing is missing, clear 
stuff. 

3356
02:46:15,500 --> 02:46:18,500
They've taken some exculpatory 
stuff out of it. 

3357
02:46:18,500 --> 02:46:20,800
They are way overstating, some 
other stuff. 

3358
02:46:20,800 --> 02:46:23,400
This is just not an accurate 
resuscitation of the facts and 

3359
02:46:23,400 --> 02:46:25,000
I'm not going to put my name to 
this. 

3360
02:46:25,800 --> 02:46:27,900
Like okay fellas, go back to 
work. 

3361
02:46:27,900 --> 02:46:31,200
You got other work to do. 
I will message that up to my 

3362
02:46:31,200 --> 02:46:35,300
management team. 
Management team in Salt Lake 

3363
02:46:35,300 --> 02:46:40,900
will not accept that. 
The chief division, counsel's 

3364
02:46:40,900 --> 02:46:43,800
had had independent 
conversations with my two agents

3365
02:46:43,800 --> 02:46:46,500
expressing the same concerns and
that they were not comfortable 

3366
02:46:46,500 --> 02:46:48,400
with this half of David, didn't 
matter. 

3367
02:46:49,800 --> 02:46:53,700
My point was, this is now twice.
My agents reviewed an affidavit 

3368
02:46:53,700 --> 02:46:55,900
that they didn't write. 
And they've said that it is 

3369
02:46:55,900 --> 02:46:57,600
inaccurate and then they're not 
willing to support it. 

3370
02:46:57,600 --> 02:47:00,400
Well, why not? 
I'm like, you know, it reads, 

3371
02:47:00,400 --> 02:47:02,400
perfectly fine because you've 
had a whole team of attorneys 

3372
02:47:02,400 --> 02:47:07,300
riding it for a month but it is 
not Accurate, according to my 

3373
02:47:07,300 --> 02:47:09,500
agents who are the subject 
matter experts here, we don't 

3374
02:47:09,508 --> 02:47:11,400
have to be a subject matter 
expert to square out an 

3375
02:47:11,400 --> 02:47:12,800
affidavit. 
You do if it needs to be 

3376
02:47:12,800 --> 02:47:15,800
accurate. 
And I was like, you know, you 

3377
02:47:15,800 --> 02:47:21,100
can read this whole thing. 
But it is not the premise of it 

3378
02:47:21,100 --> 02:47:23,400
is not accurate. 
In other words, like the theme 

3379
02:47:23,400 --> 02:47:26,200
here that these are a violent 
right-wing group and that they 

3380
02:47:26,200 --> 02:47:29,200
were conspiring conspiring to 
Riot. 

3381
02:47:29,200 --> 02:47:32,800
And skull crash here in Coeur 
d'Alene is not reflected in 

3382
02:47:32,800 --> 02:47:34,600
facts. 
It has to be brought together 

3383
02:47:34,600 --> 02:47:36,500
with conjecture in this 
affidavit. 

3384
02:47:36,500 --> 02:47:39,500
Can you, can you explain the 
danger of swearing out an 

3385
02:47:39,500 --> 02:47:43,100
affidavit? 
That is let's say actually reads

3386
02:47:43,100 --> 02:47:44,800
well but actually accurate can 
you read? 

3387
02:47:44,800 --> 02:47:45,800
Can you explain what that would 
do? 

3388
02:47:45,808 --> 02:47:48,800
These guys? 
Yes, so if you are effectively 

3389
02:47:48,800 --> 02:47:53,000
lying to the court, if you swear
out and affidavit, it turns out 

3390
02:47:53,000 --> 02:47:56,600
you knew was false or was 
inaccurate or was misleading. 

3391
02:47:56,600 --> 02:48:03,400
And if you Do that you career is
toast because you're going to be

3392
02:48:03,400 --> 02:48:08,200
put on a Brady list and you are 
not going to be able to testify 

3393
02:48:08,200 --> 02:48:11,300
in any future coaching for the 
rest of your career and you're 

3394
02:48:11,300 --> 02:48:13,600
probably going to get Oprah so 
officer professional 

3395
02:48:13,600 --> 02:48:16,100
responsibility is going to 
hammer you with something the 

3396
02:48:16,100 --> 02:48:18,700
FBI's internal investigation 
internal investigation and 

3397
02:48:18,700 --> 02:48:22,600
judication process so it's a 
current but again that aside my 

3398
02:48:22,600 --> 02:48:25,400
agents were not still just wrong
it's like wrong it's against the

3399
02:48:25,400 --> 02:48:27,800
law. 
It is the judicial system is a 

3400
02:48:27,800 --> 02:48:32,800
scale, it is facts on one side. 
And its outcome on the other 

3401
02:48:32,800 --> 02:48:35,400
facts are facts. 
They don't care about, they 

3402
02:48:35,400 --> 02:48:38,300
don't care about your feelings, 
they don't care. 

3403
02:48:38,300 --> 02:48:41,800
If you're lgbtq, they don't care
if you're white nationalists. 

3404
02:48:41,800 --> 02:48:45,600
The fact is a fact, and my 
agents were saying, the facts 

3405
02:48:45,600 --> 02:48:50,300
are not represented here. 
And I said, okay, in my front 

3406
02:48:50,300 --> 02:48:54,600
office is saying not okay. 
And my response was. 

3407
02:48:54,600 --> 02:48:56,000
All right, listen, this is 
twice. 

3408
02:48:57,700 --> 02:49:00,300
This is real pressure. 
I've warned you guys about this 

3409
02:49:00,300 --> 02:49:02,400
last week. 
I warned my ASAP about the 

3410
02:49:02,408 --> 02:49:04,500
pressure that I was feeling to 
get this warrant done. 

3411
02:49:04,500 --> 02:49:08,900
And I've already said That I 
didn't believe you guys were 

3412
02:49:08,900 --> 02:49:15,100
gonna have my back. if my agent 
said no, I am not going to 

3413
02:49:15,100 --> 02:49:19,300
continue to instruct my agents 
to draft this thing because 

3414
02:49:19,300 --> 02:49:21,300
they're gonna figure out that 
they're going to draft the thing

3415
02:49:21,300 --> 02:49:23,200
until the answer is. 
Yes, that's the point. 

3416
02:49:23,200 --> 02:49:26,900
They're like, okay, fine, find 
another agent that will review 

3417
02:49:26,900 --> 02:49:29,100
it, and considering it out and 
I'm like, no. 

3418
02:49:30,500 --> 02:49:32,800
I have half my office to spend a
month on this. 

3419
02:49:32,800 --> 02:49:37,100
No one else in the office has 
you're just want me to find an 

3420
02:49:37,100 --> 02:49:39,100
agent that little review. 
It said that reads. 

3421
02:49:39,100 --> 02:49:43,200
Well, no matter whether or not, 
it's all inclusive or not. 

3422
02:49:44,200 --> 02:49:46,600
It just reads good that's what 
taking an agent that doesn't 

3423
02:49:46,600 --> 02:49:49,500
know you know is asked from a 
manhole cover as far as the 

3424
02:49:49,500 --> 02:49:51,700
facts go. 
And I said no. 

3425
02:49:52,700 --> 02:49:54,800
What I didn't realize is, they 
were calling my agents around 

3426
02:49:54,800 --> 02:49:57,300
me. 
Oh, and they were calling the 

3427
02:49:57,300 --> 02:50:03,800
agent specifically that disliked
me the most and was closest to 

3428
02:50:03,800 --> 02:50:06,300
the ausa that had been at the 
lgbtq event. 

3429
02:50:07,900 --> 02:50:11,600
And had been instrumental in 
trying to get me removed from my

3430
02:50:11,600 --> 02:50:15,100
position before so they knew who
they were calling, but he too, 

3431
02:50:15,100 --> 02:50:17,400
excuse me. 
He said. 

3432
02:50:20,200 --> 02:50:21,500
What about the exculpatory 
stuff? 

3433
02:50:21,500 --> 02:50:24,000
These other agents are saying 
was taking out and from Office 

3434
02:50:24,000 --> 02:50:26,600
like I don't think so we don't 
we're not aware of that. 

3435
02:50:27,400 --> 02:50:31,000
They're all calling the ausa 
that was the lgbtq of event and 

3436
02:50:31,000 --> 02:50:35,300
that's where it's well. 
You know, is actually a real 

3437
02:50:35,308 --> 02:50:39,600
problem up here. 
So, By the next day, I get a 

3438
02:50:39,600 --> 02:50:41,900
phone call. 
Zach, take it privately. 

3439
02:50:41,900 --> 02:50:45,700
Close your door in the office. 
The three assistance specialist 

3440
02:50:45,700 --> 02:50:50,300
in charge in the CDC and it's 
Zach, I don't think you realize 

3441
02:50:51,700 --> 02:50:55,200
How much visibility is on this? 
This search warrant is now on 

3442
02:50:55,200 --> 02:50:58,000
Lisa Monaco's desk. 
The deputy Attorney General. 

3443
02:50:58,700 --> 02:51:01,400
And we've lost confidence in 
your ability, to lead the squad.

3444
02:51:01,400 --> 02:51:05,500
Through this case, You will not 
talk about this case with the US

3445
02:51:05,500 --> 02:51:07,600
attorney's office anymore, you 
will not send another email 

3446
02:51:07,600 --> 02:51:10,300
about this case, you won't talk 
about it amongst your squad, 

3447
02:51:10,300 --> 02:51:13,000
your squad won't talk about 
amongst themselves, they won't 

3448
02:51:13,000 --> 02:51:14,500
talk to the illustrations about 
anymore. 

3449
02:51:14,500 --> 02:51:19,500
You will transfer this to the 
FBI FBI supervisor. 

3450
02:51:20,700 --> 02:51:22,600
Excuse me. 
The FBI supervisor in Boise? 

3451
02:51:26,400 --> 02:51:28,900
Is that a lawful order? 
You will transfer this to the 

3452
02:51:28,900 --> 02:51:31,000
FBI supervisor in Boise. 
It is. 

3453
02:51:32,300 --> 02:51:34,400
My response. 
How did that? 

3454
02:51:34,400 --> 02:51:37,400
Yes, sir. 
Thank you. 

3455
02:51:37,408 --> 02:51:38,500
Okay, with this? 
No. 

3456
02:51:39,800 --> 02:51:41,200
But that's your instruction. 
Yes, sir. 

3457
02:51:42,600 --> 02:51:45,100
So, I transfer and I bring the 
whole Squad in the conference 

3458
02:51:45,100 --> 02:51:46,600
room. 
And I said, this is what just 

3459
02:51:46,600 --> 02:51:50,000
happened? 
This is our instruction, I can't

3460
02:51:50,000 --> 02:51:54,500
tell you guys what to do. 
But something bad just happened.

3461
02:51:56,400 --> 02:51:57,800
I will have a binder of 
everything. 

3462
02:51:57,800 --> 02:52:00,700
That's taking place. 
For that future inquiry. 

3463
02:52:01,800 --> 02:52:04,400
You guys do what you feel like 
you need to do to prepare 

3464
02:52:04,400 --> 02:52:08,300
yourself for a future inquiry. 
because again that's a you know,

3465
02:52:08,308 --> 02:52:13,900
trying to push people to Swear 
on a warrant. 

3466
02:52:14,500 --> 02:52:17,700
That they know to be false is 
called suborning perjury. 

3467
02:52:17,700 --> 02:52:21,700
It's a crime. 
The act of swearing it out, is 

3468
02:52:21,700 --> 02:52:28,900
perjury. so, That's a Friday I 
do as instructed. 

3469
02:52:28,900 --> 02:52:31,300
Now there's this little flurry 
of activity. 

3470
02:52:31,300 --> 02:52:35,700
There's this fresh list of. 
Oh, you just like to know ABC 

3471
02:52:35,700 --> 02:52:44,100
and director came from They? 
Asked me to send agents out to 

3472
02:52:44,100 --> 02:52:47,100
go review some of these 
campsites, whatever the Patriot 

3473
02:52:47,100 --> 02:52:48,900
front supposedly, was at, they 
do that. 

3474
02:52:48,900 --> 02:52:53,100
And then, the next week is 
generally questions, coming from

3475
02:52:53,100 --> 02:52:57,100
Boise about how many devices or 
some discrepancies there, back 

3476
02:52:57,100 --> 02:52:59,100
and forth, back and forth. 
I've got the poor Quarter, Lane 

3477
02:52:59,100 --> 02:53:01,200
Police Department guys, going 
back in, and back in reviewing 

3478
02:53:01,200 --> 02:53:04,500
stuff. 
So again, I am doing lawful I am

3479
02:53:04,500 --> 02:53:08,400
acting upon lawful instructions.
But this is a very weird place 

3480
02:53:08,400 --> 02:53:11,800
to be very runoff, is not 
talking to me anymore. 

3481
02:53:13,400 --> 02:53:17,700
I've told my agents to go back 
to work on their other cases and

3482
02:53:17,700 --> 02:53:21,500
I message to my supervisor. 
I'm taking next week off. 

3483
02:53:22,900 --> 02:53:28,300
And I go back to Montana, what 
days were the, I mean, what? 

3484
02:53:28,300 --> 02:53:32,000
Still 2022? 
What months, just people kind of

3485
02:53:32,008 --> 02:53:38,800
catch up and this is July. 
So this was Up, we're talking 

3486
02:53:38,800 --> 02:53:42,100
the week of July 10th. 
I think I was the case was 

3487
02:53:42,100 --> 02:53:45,900
removed for me on or about July 
8th this. 

3488
02:53:45,900 --> 02:53:47,700
So this next week's July 10th, 
and then I'm going to take the 

3489
02:53:47,700 --> 02:53:50,300
following week off, on, sorry, 
on leave. 

3490
02:53:50,300 --> 02:53:54,200
So question for you, yes. 
When you said, I'm gonna take a 

3491
02:53:54,200 --> 02:53:55,100
week off. 
Mm-hmm. 

3492
02:53:55,100 --> 02:53:57,300
You think that their tentacles 
went up and they thought you 

3493
02:53:57,300 --> 02:53:59,300
were going to do something like,
whistleblower, do something else

3494
02:53:59,300 --> 02:54:01,800
you think that maybe was a? 
No, not a kiss. 

3495
02:54:01,800 --> 02:54:05,200
Know what I know now. 
So if I was removed from the 

3496
02:54:05,200 --> 02:54:09,100
case on Friday, Monday was a 
very busy day for my axe because

3497
02:54:09,100 --> 02:54:11,600
my name was being launched at 
security division. 

3498
02:54:11,600 --> 02:54:13,100
We need to pull this guy 
security clearance. 

3499
02:54:13,100 --> 02:54:14,900
I was launched it inside of 
threat. 

3500
02:54:14,900 --> 02:54:18,500
I was being talked about with 
home, human resource division of

3501
02:54:18,500 --> 02:54:22,300
hey, we've got this lgbtq bias 
supervisor up there that we need

3502
02:54:22,300 --> 02:54:26,100
to get out of Coalition ASAP. 
And I'm being referred to 

3503
02:54:26,100 --> 02:54:27,900
Inspection Division. 
So all the things that you're 

3504
02:54:27,908 --> 02:54:30,600
not, you don't. 
I mean a fact is a fact like I 

3505
02:54:30,600 --> 02:54:32,000
don't think it. 
I don't think I could throw 

3506
02:54:32,000 --> 02:54:34,400
conjecture at you and you'd be 
like yeah that's that's true. 

3507
02:54:34,400 --> 02:54:36,300
You'd probably say it's not a 
fact. 

3508
02:54:36,300 --> 02:54:40,400
Sure. 
I didn't know that it's time, 

3509
02:54:40,400 --> 02:54:42,000
right? 
They weren't talking to me. 

3510
02:54:43,000 --> 02:54:45,700
I knew that this was a very 
uncomfortable place to be. 

3511
02:54:45,700 --> 02:54:50,100
I knew that what I'd witnessed 
was wrong potentially illegal. 

3512
02:54:50,100 --> 02:54:55,000
And I was Going to take leave 
and go back to my hometown. 

3513
02:54:55,000 --> 02:54:59,200
So I leave on a Monday. 
I get a phone call on a Monday 

3514
02:54:59,200 --> 02:55:03,900
from one of my state and local 
counterparts, and it's like 

3515
02:55:03,900 --> 02:55:09,800
exact I just spent 90 minutes 
being interviewed by two of your

3516
02:55:09,800 --> 02:55:13,000
Asics. 
And it was not good, and I don't

3517
02:55:13,000 --> 02:55:15,400
know what they're up to, but 
they're clearly coming for you. 

3518
02:55:15,400 --> 02:55:18,500
He's like, because they were 
trying to convince me. 

3519
02:55:19,300 --> 02:55:21,400
That you have ruined 
relationships with law 

3520
02:55:21,400 --> 02:55:23,400
enforcement in North Idaho and I
wouldn't work with you anymore. 

3521
02:55:24,600 --> 02:55:28,700
the term set up came out, and it
was This. 

3522
02:55:29,500 --> 02:55:34,200
Captain. telling me everything, 
I said to try to deter them from

3523
02:55:34,200 --> 02:55:37,800
this narrative was cast aside 
and they would try to spin it 

3524
02:55:37,800 --> 02:55:42,400
like okay, you say that but 
Isn't it true Zach's a disaster 

3525
02:55:42,400 --> 02:55:46,200
up here. and he's like, no, it's
not true. 

3526
02:55:46,200 --> 02:55:47,900
So anyway, he relates that to 
me. 

3527
02:55:47,900 --> 02:55:50,100
Now, the things you're saying 
are really troubling to me. 

3528
02:55:50,100 --> 02:55:51,700
I'm a stand for my mic for 
second. 

3529
02:55:53,100 --> 02:55:56,200
Because ruining relationship 
with local law enforcement was 

3530
02:55:56,200 --> 02:55:58,400
used on mine. 
Inspection Division was thrown 

3531
02:55:58,400 --> 02:56:01,400
on mine. 
Insider threat off the 

3532
02:56:01,400 --> 02:56:02,600
professional responsibility, 
every single. 

3533
02:56:02,600 --> 02:56:06,600
One of these things security 
division Every one of these damn

3534
02:56:06,600 --> 02:56:08,500
things has been said, it's 
almost like there's a Playbook, 

3535
02:56:08,500 --> 02:56:10,300
it's almost like there's a 
freaking Playbook and you know, 

3536
02:56:10,300 --> 02:56:12,900
what's even crazier than that? 
They didn't used to have this 

3537
02:56:12,900 --> 02:56:17,500
Playbook because you're the 
second of three former ssas from

3538
02:56:17,500 --> 02:56:18,700
the FBI that's been on this 
podcast. 

3539
02:56:20,100 --> 02:56:24,000
And you and one other. 
So, two of the three have told 

3540
02:56:24,000 --> 02:56:28,000
me that they have seen Sachs 
suborn perjury senior Executives

3541
02:56:28,000 --> 02:56:30,100
in the FBI support and perjury 
and they've paid the 

3542
02:56:30,108 --> 02:56:31,800
consequences for it and not the 
FBI. 

3543
02:56:31,800 --> 02:56:34,500
Sure. 
And and they've also turned out 

3544
02:56:34,500 --> 02:56:35,900
and seen that. 
These these people have 

3545
02:56:35,900 --> 02:56:38,100
eventually lost in federal 
lawsuits but it took, you know, 

3546
02:56:38,108 --> 02:56:41,100
a decade years it takes forever 
to make this thing. 

3547
02:56:41,100 --> 02:56:42,700
Right? 
And so that's why this story, 

3548
02:56:42,700 --> 02:56:45,100
like I get that as long went, I 
like I'm enthrall here. 

3549
02:56:45,100 --> 02:56:47,600
I'm learning things that even 
though the broad Strokes of 

3550
02:56:47,600 --> 02:56:51,700
this, You're saying this and I'm
like I don't ten guys this 

3551
02:56:51,700 --> 02:56:54,100
happened to and now you do too 
because you're in part of this 

3552
02:56:54,100 --> 02:56:56,600
fraternity which is a real 
different fraternity, then the 

3553
02:56:56,600 --> 02:56:58,900
original FBI fraternity, it's 
the people that have seen that 

3554
02:56:58,900 --> 02:57:01,100
ugly thing like your body did 
back in Richmond one time. 

3555
02:57:02,000 --> 02:57:06,300
So bizarre, at this point. 
I file my first. 

3556
02:57:07,500 --> 02:57:09,400
Official, whistleblower, 
complaint. 

3557
02:57:09,400 --> 02:57:11,400
And I say official from 
somebody, like I filed something

3558
02:57:11,400 --> 02:57:14,700
to doj oig that said, whistle 
blower. 

3559
02:57:14,700 --> 02:57:18,000
Tell him what it has a specific.
I am reporting. 

3560
02:57:19,500 --> 02:57:25,100
Misconduct. 
By The Bureau to an entity that 

3561
02:57:25,100 --> 02:57:27,300
is legally defined to receive 
it. 

3562
02:57:27,300 --> 02:57:30,200
So doj oig is one of them for an
FBI employee, right? 

3563
02:57:30,200 --> 02:57:32,200
And I Define that this was at 
the time. 

3564
02:57:32,200 --> 02:57:36,400
I said this was an abusive power
and authority by FBI Salt Lake 

3565
02:57:36,400 --> 02:57:39,200
City division. 
Us attorney's office District of

3566
02:57:39,200 --> 02:57:42,800
Idaho and doj to force you. 
This warrant, when my age 

3567
02:57:42,800 --> 02:57:45,300
saying, it's not a good warrant 
and for sure to force them to 

3568
02:57:45,300 --> 02:57:52,000
change their mind. 
I reach out to. the same retired

3569
02:57:52,000 --> 02:57:55,100
FBI executive that I talked to 
about the previous issue, a 

3570
02:57:55,100 --> 02:57:58,700
train Division and I said Hey 
man. 

3571
02:58:00,000 --> 02:58:02,800
This is happening and he's like,
Zach, I'm sorry, they're coming 

3572
02:58:02,800 --> 02:58:05,900
for you. 
Now he's like if you thought was

3573
02:58:05,900 --> 02:58:09,900
born complain, oh yeah. 
I also made previous quote 

3574
02:58:09,900 --> 02:58:12,800
protected disclosures when I 
warned my direct chain of 

3575
02:58:12,800 --> 02:58:16,300
command that this was wrong 
because my are also appropriate.

3576
02:58:16,300 --> 02:58:18,000
They are also appropriate 
channels. 

3577
02:58:18,000 --> 02:58:22,100
Now, to be honest I at the time 
I am still trying to play on 

3578
02:58:22,100 --> 02:58:24,600
Team America and it's like 
trying to like wave them off 

3579
02:58:24,600 --> 02:58:29,000
from a path of disaster. 
It's like hey don't go down this

3580
02:58:29,000 --> 02:58:30,400
path. 
Like this is not good, this is 

3581
02:58:30,408 --> 02:58:32,000
wrong. 
Like how am I the only one 

3582
02:58:32,000 --> 02:58:33,800
thinking like this? 
How, how indeed? 

3583
02:58:33,800 --> 02:58:38,100
After it's over then it's then 
it's or a dojo or just getting a

3584
02:58:38,100 --> 02:58:42,100
report from me that this just 
happened and it was wrong. so I 

3585
02:58:42,100 --> 02:58:44,800
launched that, I then 
subsequently have conversations 

3586
02:58:44,800 --> 02:58:47,900
with other local law enforcement
that at the same treatment 

3587
02:58:47,900 --> 02:58:52,900
within the Five left on a Monday
Monday, Tuesday, that week. 

3588
02:58:52,900 --> 02:58:54,300
These guys are getting visited 
by my Asics. 

3589
02:58:54,300 --> 02:58:56,000
Do you think they told me they 
were coming to Quarter Lane 

3590
02:58:56,000 --> 02:58:56,900
Idaho? 
From Salt, Lake City? 

3591
02:58:56,900 --> 02:58:59,800
Know you think anybody in my 
office knew they were in Coeur 

3592
02:58:59,800 --> 02:59:01,800
d'Alene not until one of my 
agents. 

3593
02:59:01,800 --> 02:59:05,100
Saw them at the US. 
Attorney's office and said, hey 

3594
02:59:05,100 --> 02:59:08,900
guys, what are you doing here? 
Nothing. 

3595
02:59:09,800 --> 02:59:14,100
So I then so that's a by 
Thursday. 

3596
02:59:15,100 --> 02:59:18,300
I have this right by Thursday 
that week so it's mid July, I 

3597
02:59:18,300 --> 02:59:21,700
get a message from my direct 
supervisor, the criminal ASAP of

3598
02:59:21,700 --> 02:59:24,900
Zack and prepare yourself for a 
phone call with the sac and me, 

3599
02:59:24,900 --> 02:59:28,000
okay. 
They know I'm only, I take it. 

3600
02:59:28,000 --> 02:59:31,200
And the sac says Zach, this is 
your official notice that I've 

3601
02:59:31,200 --> 02:59:35,200
lost confidence in your ability 
to lead period And I am doing 

3602
02:59:35,200 --> 02:59:37,700
something about it with 
headquarters and you already 

3603
02:59:37,700 --> 02:59:42,500
filed your whistle which means 
the Doj. 

3604
02:59:43,600 --> 02:59:49,800
YG the oit told the FBI, I don't
know but I told him right then 

3605
02:59:49,800 --> 02:59:53,500
and there oh you did oh yeah. 
Okay I'll have a difficult 

3606
02:59:53,500 --> 02:59:58,300
conversation. 
So I said sir He's it's a pretty

3607
02:59:58,308 --> 03:00:00,100
tense conversation. 
Yeah. 

3608
03:00:00,100 --> 03:00:04,900
Um And I said, you know, he's 
like Zach, you know, you might 

3609
03:00:04,900 --> 03:00:08,300
not know this, but we were up, 
you know, asaps were up in Coeur

3610
03:00:08,300 --> 03:00:09,200
d'Alene. 
It turns out, you've ruined 

3611
03:00:09,200 --> 03:00:12,200
relationships up there. 
And I'm gonna have to do 

3612
03:00:12,200 --> 03:00:15,600
something about that. 
And I said, well sir, Who did 

3613
03:00:15,600 --> 03:00:17,200
you talk to? 
Because I'm getting some kind 

3614
03:00:17,200 --> 03:00:19,700
of, I'm getting contacted by 
some of those Partners in their 

3615
03:00:19,700 --> 03:00:22,500
describing those conversations a
bit differently. 

3616
03:00:23,200 --> 03:00:24,800
Zach. 
I don't have to tell you who we 

3617
03:00:24,800 --> 03:00:28,200
talked to, okay? 
Did you talk to anybody on my 

3618
03:00:28,208 --> 03:00:30,000
squad? 
Zach, I already told you. 

3619
03:00:30,000 --> 03:00:33,300
I don't need to tell, you know, 
we didn't talk to your squad and

3620
03:00:33,300 --> 03:00:35,600
know not everybody says 
something about you, okay. 

3621
03:00:36,400 --> 03:00:39,800
That mask. 
All right, unnamed. 

3622
03:00:39,800 --> 03:00:42,700
So he's getting like audibly 
pissed. 

3623
03:00:42,700 --> 03:00:45,200
I bet. 
So, because you've done the one 

3624
03:00:45,200 --> 03:00:47,200
thing you're not allowed to do 
you challenge the challenge 

3625
03:00:47,200 --> 03:00:51,400
challenge, the weakness there, 
and he informs me that I have 

3626
03:00:51,400 --> 03:00:54,100
committed, the ultimate sin. 
I have embarrassed him and have 

3627
03:00:54,100 --> 03:00:55,300
embarrassed the FBI. 
There it is. 

3628
03:00:55,308 --> 03:01:02,100
And I'm like, all right, sir. 
Are you about to take 

3629
03:01:02,100 --> 03:01:03,900
administrative action against me
back? 

3630
03:01:03,900 --> 03:01:05,300
I'm not going to tell you what 
about to do. 

3631
03:01:05,308 --> 03:01:07,900
I'm just telling you of lost 
confidence in you and I'm going 

3632
03:01:07,900 --> 03:01:10,800
to do something. 
I'm communicating headquarters. 

3633
03:01:11,600 --> 03:01:16,400
I'm like, all right, and he's 
audibly angry and I asked for 

3634
03:01:16,400 --> 03:01:18,100
another question. 
He cuts me off says no. 

3635
03:01:18,800 --> 03:01:20,100
I was like, all right, sir 
listen. 

3636
03:01:21,400 --> 03:01:22,900
I'm not trying to be 
unprofessional here. 

3637
03:01:22,900 --> 03:01:26,500
This is clearly uncomfortable. 
But I'm gonna tell you right now

3638
03:01:26,500 --> 03:01:28,500
that I don't think what you're 
doing is being done in. 

3639
03:01:28,500 --> 03:01:30,900
Good faith. and I'm going to 
tell you right now that I've 

3640
03:01:30,900 --> 03:01:34,500
already filed a whistleblower 
complaint with doj oig that the 

3641
03:01:34,500 --> 03:01:36,700
actions of you and your 
executive management team, the 

3642
03:01:36,700 --> 03:01:40,100
US, attorney's office, for Idaho
and doj abuse, their power and 

3643
03:01:40,100 --> 03:01:44,200
authority, but trying to force 
through this warrant Thanks, 

3644
03:01:44,200 --> 03:01:47,800
Zach, that's your right. 
And then I had like, can I ask 

3645
03:01:47,800 --> 03:01:50,400
my supervisor a question? 
And he gets on and he's like, 

3646
03:01:50,400 --> 03:01:55,100
yes, Equity got Where Do We Go 
From Here, boss? 

3647
03:01:55,100 --> 03:01:58,900
Well Zack, he's still got a 
squad to run and we've got a 

3648
03:01:58,900 --> 03:02:00,400
branch meeting next week. 
We'll see you there. 

3649
03:02:02,700 --> 03:02:05,900
Okay, call wins. 
I do a conference call with my 

3650
03:02:05,900 --> 03:02:08,400
squad and I was like my big 
thing is transparency. 

3651
03:02:09,400 --> 03:02:14,000
No concept. 
I have So I have him on the 

3652
03:02:14,000 --> 03:02:14,900
phone. 
I was like, I just have this 

3653
03:02:14,900 --> 03:02:18,800
conversation. 
My point to them was, and I made

3654
03:02:18,800 --> 03:02:20,600
this one clear. 
I don't know what's going to 

3655
03:02:20,600 --> 03:02:24,400
happen. 
But I have a job to do and so do

3656
03:02:24,400 --> 03:02:27,100
you, I expect you guys to do 
your job and I expect myself to 

3657
03:02:27,100 --> 03:02:29,300
do mine. 
Shut up and color. 

3658
03:02:30,800 --> 03:02:32,700
I didn't say the shut up and 
color, but they got a point 

3659
03:02:32,700 --> 03:02:36,700
that's so, um, call ends with my
group. 

3660
03:02:36,700 --> 03:02:44,200
And I had to go the next week. 
Down to not all the way to Salt 

3661
03:02:44,200 --> 03:02:44,900
Lake. 
I think we had it in. 

3662
03:02:46,300 --> 03:02:47,400
Pocatello or something like 
that. 

3663
03:02:47,400 --> 03:02:50,100
We had a branch meeting. 
And so, I had to go there to my 

3664
03:02:50,100 --> 03:02:53,500
direct supervisor and like all 
my other Branch peers and the 

3665
03:02:53,500 --> 03:02:56,000
chief division counsel, and 
didn't know what I was walking 

3666
03:02:56,000 --> 03:02:59,500
into. 
Oddly, and what does that feel 

3667
03:02:59,500 --> 03:03:02,000
like walking in there, man? 
I mean, it was one of the 

3668
03:03:02,008 --> 03:03:03,800
scariest moments of my life and 
oddly enough. 

3669
03:03:03,800 --> 03:03:06,100
This is a funny sidebar for 
podcasts. 

3670
03:03:06,100 --> 03:03:09,500
I had just stumbled into the 
Shawn Ryan podcast interesting, 

3671
03:03:09,500 --> 03:03:13,400
and he had just had on. 
I think the guy's name was Nick 

3672
03:03:13,400 --> 03:03:17,700
wavering. 
Okay, he was a He was on Oda. 

3673
03:03:17,700 --> 03:03:19,700
Lost his leg blown off by like a
PKM. 

3674
03:03:19,700 --> 03:03:24,000
And he subsequently became the 
first above the knee. 

3675
03:03:24,000 --> 03:03:28,100
Amputee to rejoin. 
An active Oda went on a team, 

3676
03:03:28,100 --> 03:03:30,600
sergeant and a warrant. 
All right. 

3677
03:03:30,608 --> 03:03:33,500
So anyway, it was that was one 
of those reflective moments of 

3678
03:03:33,500 --> 03:03:35,700
I'm listening to that on the way
down there of like this really 

3679
03:03:35,700 --> 03:03:38,300
sucks. 
You're driving to this this like

3680
03:03:38,300 --> 03:03:40,400
firing squad without any. 
Yeah, and I'm listening to this 

3681
03:03:40,400 --> 03:03:42,200
podcast and I'm like, my life 
really sucks. 

3682
03:03:42,200 --> 03:03:44,100
This sucks. 
I don't know what I'm walking 

3683
03:03:44,100 --> 03:03:46,200
into. 
Am I getting fired like this? 

3684
03:03:46,200 --> 03:03:50,000
This is no bueno, but I listened
to like the story of like a 

3685
03:03:50,000 --> 03:03:52,800
warrior getting his leg blown 
off and saying like, I'm I don't

3686
03:03:52,800 --> 03:03:54,900
care, I got a leg going off, 
like, I'm rejoining a note 8 

3687
03:03:54,900 --> 03:03:56,900
team and like, all right, Zach 
perspective, right? 

3688
03:03:56,900 --> 03:03:59,400
Um yes, life sucks. 
Yes, this sucks. 

3689
03:03:59,400 --> 03:04:01,100
But you're going to survive 
this. 

3690
03:04:01,100 --> 03:04:03,100
Nobody blew your leg off, like 
suck it up. 

3691
03:04:03,100 --> 03:04:07,400
So, um, all right. 
So anyway, I go in, they don't 

3692
03:04:07,400 --> 03:04:10,800
say boo to me about anything. 
It's, you know, he's acting like

3693
03:04:10,800 --> 03:04:12,300
never happened, you know, so 
what are your thoughts on 

3694
03:04:12,300 --> 03:04:15,900
threat? 
Idaho, and, you know, what about

3695
03:04:15,900 --> 03:04:17,700
this Branch priority and this 
Branch priority? 

3696
03:04:17,700 --> 03:04:21,200
Well, I start to tell some of my
peers like what's going on, and 

3697
03:04:22,200 --> 03:04:24,300
fortunately, I had a good 
reputation with my peers and 

3698
03:04:24,300 --> 03:04:26,300
they're like, Dude, that's 
crazy. 

3699
03:04:26,300 --> 03:04:28,300
You're telling them that after 
the meeting? 

3700
03:04:28,300 --> 03:04:31,300
Yeah, like a couple of my, you 
know, supervisory peers. 

3701
03:04:31,300 --> 03:04:33,900
So I've got the support of my 
peers at that point. 

3702
03:04:33,900 --> 03:04:40,400
So anyway, At this juncture, I 
go back to court Elaine, I'm 

3703
03:04:40,400 --> 03:04:43,100
working. 
My office is working. 

3704
03:04:43,100 --> 03:04:45,500
Nobody from the front office, is
talking to me. 

3705
03:04:45,500 --> 03:04:49,700
I don't know what's going on. 
Did you think I got it? 

3706
03:04:50,200 --> 03:04:51,100
I didn't know what was going to 
know. 

3707
03:04:51,108 --> 03:04:53,400
I think I dodged nothing. 
Okay, there's a freight train to

3708
03:04:53,400 --> 03:04:54,800
come in. 
You just don't know where it's 

3709
03:04:54,800 --> 03:04:56,000
at. 
On the track know. 

3710
03:04:56,000 --> 03:04:58,200
Everything is on known. 
Okay, this is when I really 

3711
03:04:58,200 --> 03:05:02,400
thought I've used this analogy. 
A lot of this fight of I'm 

3712
03:05:02,400 --> 03:05:04,400
playing chess with that board. 
I can't see in pieces, I don't 

3713
03:05:04,408 --> 03:05:07,500
know. 
Yeah, that that analogy was 

3714
03:05:07,500 --> 03:05:08,500
really true right in that 
moment. 

3715
03:05:08,500 --> 03:05:13,500
So I, I realize that there are 
folks out there in and out the 

3716
03:05:13,500 --> 03:05:15,400
bureau that don't like the FBI 
agent Association. 

3717
03:05:15,400 --> 03:05:20,100
I am not one of them and it's 
very the age of the FBI agent 

3718
03:05:20,100 --> 03:05:23,600
Association has been there for 
me personally, and, you know, 

3719
03:05:23,600 --> 03:05:29,100
peripherally, every time I've 
ever asked them I was at the 

3720
03:05:29,100 --> 03:05:32,500
now, here Refuge standoff, I 
took the Richmond SWAT team to 

3721
03:05:32,500 --> 03:05:36,100
secure the voice income crime 
scene from HRT. 

3722
03:05:36,100 --> 03:05:41,100
We were once getting interviewed
by doj oig when the allegation 

3723
03:05:41,100 --> 03:05:43,400
came out, the HRT shot and 
didn't admit to it. 

3724
03:05:43,400 --> 03:05:48,000
I had to go and testify. 
I wanted that was weird to be 

3725
03:05:48,008 --> 03:05:51,100
interviewed by doj. 
I didn't We were at the crime 

3726
03:05:51,100 --> 03:05:52,000
scene. 
I didn't know if we were to be 

3727
03:05:52,008 --> 03:05:56,200
subjects or what you Association
had attorneys there for us when 

3728
03:05:56,200 --> 03:05:59,800
my dad had his heart attack and 
I, you know, Dropped my 

3729
03:05:59,800 --> 03:06:02,400
surveillance and got a plane 
ticket and flew to Montana from 

3730
03:06:02,400 --> 03:06:05,000
Richmond. 
Virginia agency Association, 

3731
03:06:05,000 --> 03:06:10,500
sent me a check for that plane 
ticket when I had this happened 

3732
03:06:10,500 --> 03:06:13,200
to me. 
I reset the agencies Association

3733
03:06:13,200 --> 03:06:16,100
and they're like you did the 
right things like we got your 

3734
03:06:16,100 --> 03:06:19,800
back and they did. 
They 100% believe that the 

3735
03:06:19,800 --> 03:06:23,700
Executive Board of the agency 
Association exercise, what power

3736
03:06:23,700 --> 03:06:27,000
of influence they had, and they 
messaged that up to the EAD 

3737
03:06:27,000 --> 03:06:28,800
level and they were told. 
Yeah, we know. 

3738
03:06:31,600 --> 03:06:34,200
So they the president agency is 
the time warned me. 

3739
03:06:34,200 --> 03:06:37,400
He's like Zach, I think we've 
Something's missed. 

3740
03:06:37,400 --> 03:06:39,800
But we've, we've voiced it up 
and I think they recognize that 

3741
03:06:39,800 --> 03:06:41,400
wrong is wrong. 
And I think we're okay. 

3742
03:06:42,600 --> 03:06:45,600
So brought to that, August 3rd. 
Two months. 

3743
03:06:45,600 --> 03:06:48,700
And one day after I'd received a
performance checking that said 

3744
03:06:48,708 --> 03:06:50,600
that my performance was 
generally glowing, I had 

3745
03:06:50,600 --> 03:06:55,700
exceptional relationships, I 
received two failure to meet 

3746
03:06:55,700 --> 03:06:59,500
every single performance 
objective and competency check 

3747
03:06:59,500 --> 03:07:02,400
into my file with, no phone 
call, I got just getting an 

3748
03:07:02,400 --> 03:07:03,700
email notification, that it's in
my file. 

3749
03:07:04,400 --> 03:07:08,400
So that's a Wednesday. 
I also get a phone call or get a

3750
03:07:08,400 --> 03:07:11,600
text message on Wednesday. 
To prepare for a meeting with 

3751
03:07:11,600 --> 03:07:13,900
the sac for the whole squad on 
Friday. 

3752
03:07:13,900 --> 03:07:18,800
Okay, so I mentioned the squad, 
we have a sit down and it's a, 

3753
03:07:18,800 --> 03:07:23,100
hey, these are tough times. 
We may have all collectively 

3754
03:07:23,100 --> 03:07:26,100
lost some faith in the bureau in
this and I don't know what's 

3755
03:07:26,100 --> 03:07:30,300
coming our way with this visit, 
but this is our Bureau, good bad

3756
03:07:30,300 --> 03:07:32,100
or indifferent. 
You will be in a suit. 

3757
03:07:32,108 --> 03:07:36,000
You will look sharp and you will
own your decisions and I will 

3758
03:07:36,008 --> 03:07:39,700
own my own. 
So everybody's looking sharp on 

3759
03:07:39,700 --> 03:07:42,100
Friday morning. 
Secane show up. 

3760
03:07:42,100 --> 03:07:44,600
I've got everybody. 
They specifically did not want 

3761
03:07:44,600 --> 03:07:46,200
tfo's. 
Only FBI employees. 

3762
03:07:46,200 --> 03:07:49,000
I expect that. 
We're all going to sit down and 

3763
03:07:49,000 --> 03:07:50,500
we're going to, we're going to 
hear where we're going to 

3764
03:07:50,500 --> 03:07:53,100
happen. 
Sic in the ASAP. 

3765
03:07:53,100 --> 03:07:54,100
Come on my office. 
Shut the door. 

3766
03:07:55,000 --> 03:07:58,800
Sit across from my desk and look
at their shoelaces while they 

3767
03:07:58,800 --> 03:08:01,800
tell me Zach, did you see those 
two performance check-ins on 

3768
03:08:01,800 --> 03:08:03,400
Wednesday? 
Yes, sir. 

3769
03:08:03,400 --> 03:08:06,100
I did. 
Well, because of those were 

3770
03:08:06,100 --> 03:08:10,200
removing you as the ASAC, you 
will go home immediately moving 

3771
03:08:10,200 --> 03:08:11,400
you as a right. 
I'm sorry. 

3772
03:08:11,400 --> 03:08:13,300
Yes, we're moving. 
You is the ssra. 

3773
03:08:13,300 --> 03:08:15,600
You will go home immediately. 
Take your laptops with you. 

3774
03:08:15,600 --> 03:08:19,000
You're going to work from home 
until we find you TDY. 

3775
03:08:20,100 --> 03:08:22,800
You will not be allowed back in 
the ra without parking Nation. 

3776
03:08:22,800 --> 03:08:25,300
You are not allowed to have any 
official communication with the 

3777
03:08:25,300 --> 03:08:27,400
squad. 
And you will leave. 

3778
03:08:27,400 --> 03:08:32,500
Now, you have any questions? 
and I'm like, What's the job I'm

3779
03:08:32,500 --> 03:08:33,400
going to do? 
I don't know. 

3780
03:08:33,400 --> 03:08:34,400
Zach, we're still working on 
that. 

3781
03:08:36,100 --> 03:08:38,500
Okay. 
Let me shake your hands. 

3782
03:08:39,900 --> 03:08:41,200
I don't know if you remember 
that detail. 

3783
03:08:41,200 --> 03:08:43,400
That was a tense moment. 
Yeah. 

3784
03:08:43,400 --> 03:08:44,800
I do remember. 
They couldn't look me in the 

3785
03:08:44,800 --> 03:08:45,600
eye. 
Yeah. 

3786
03:08:45,600 --> 03:08:48,700
I remember that vividly and I 
bought holes into their top of 

3787
03:08:48,708 --> 03:08:53,300
the head with mine. 
I think though because they With

3788
03:08:53,300 --> 03:08:55,300
not looking in the eye, what did
it mean to you? 

3789
03:08:55,300 --> 03:08:57,600
I guess is the question. 
I won't, I won't tell me what I 

3790
03:08:57,608 --> 03:09:00,300
would say is then you then what 
they were doing was wrong. 

3791
03:09:00,300 --> 03:09:02,300
Is my personal. 
You know, they're still human 

3792
03:09:02,300 --> 03:09:03,700
beings. 
What was up? 

3793
03:09:03,700 --> 03:09:05,400
They knew that they were 
screwing me over. 

3794
03:09:05,400 --> 03:09:08,200
They knew that they were 
covering up malfeasance by their

3795
03:09:08,200 --> 03:09:12,600
own staff and by the doj. 
And they thought they were going

3796
03:09:12,600 --> 03:09:14,500
to make me. 
They're gonna extract me out. 

3797
03:09:14,500 --> 03:09:17,500
They were going to be able to 
blame me for everything and that

3798
03:09:17,500 --> 03:09:19,100
you know, they're gonna be a 
wash their hands of it. 

3799
03:09:21,500 --> 03:09:23,900
Like everything else while 
Florida is instructed. 

3800
03:09:23,900 --> 03:09:29,400
They walk out of my office, I 
pack up my lap tops, throw them 

3801
03:09:29,400 --> 03:09:32,000
in my backpack, leave everything
else as is, you know, kid 

3802
03:09:32,000 --> 03:09:34,900
pictures, all that, still sit 
right there, I walk out, I give 

3803
03:09:34,900 --> 03:09:37,700
a fist bump to my secretary 
who's got tears running on her 

3804
03:09:37,700 --> 03:09:40,500
eyes and I walk out. 
Get my car go home and I call 

3805
03:09:40,500 --> 03:09:43,000
agent Association. 
I said this just happened like 

3806
03:09:43,000 --> 03:09:49,400
WTF but we deterred this. 
You know, I get negative you 

3807
03:09:49,400 --> 03:09:50,300
know. 
Like do you want us to kind of 

3808
03:09:50,308 --> 03:09:52,300
try to feel around sleeping 
throughout what's coming next 

3809
03:09:52,300 --> 03:09:52,900
like? 
Yep. 

3810
03:09:52,900 --> 03:09:56,200
Anyway, so then I get Kurt. 
Suez deck is my attorney. 

3811
03:09:56,200 --> 03:10:02,000
We launched more protected 
disclosures by Wednesday, the 

3812
03:10:02,000 --> 03:10:04,300
next week, I get an email that 
I'm to report to West Virginia. 

3813
03:10:04,300 --> 03:10:06,800
So not only am. 
I walked out of my office, not 

3814
03:10:06,800 --> 03:10:10,100
only, am I cut off from my team?
Not only my tool that I'm a 

3815
03:10:10,100 --> 03:10:12,200
giant POS. 
I'm now cut off from my family, 

3816
03:10:12,200 --> 03:10:15,200
so I've got a wife. 
I've got two kids under four and

3817
03:10:15,200 --> 03:10:17,500
I've got terminally ill father 
at this point. 

3818
03:10:17,500 --> 03:10:21,800
So, and they want you to go to, 
they want me to go to see just 

3819
03:10:21,800 --> 03:10:24,500
in West Virginia and work in and
talk so that you've talked about

3820
03:10:24,500 --> 03:10:27,000
that before in your podcast, you
know, like our 911 call center. 

3821
03:10:27,000 --> 03:10:32,200
Um, It's like the new version of
the Butte r or the Butte 

3822
03:10:32,200 --> 03:10:34,200
division of like where you said 
Misfit children. 

3823
03:10:34,200 --> 03:10:36,800
Yeah, I mean, so people who 
don't have the historical 

3824
03:10:36,800 --> 03:10:38,100
perspective on the bureau. 
You want to share that. 

3825
03:10:38,100 --> 03:10:40,600
Yeah, so the bureau is always 
historically had places where 

3826
03:10:40,600 --> 03:10:42,900
like if you get sideways with 
the bureau they'll send you 

3827
03:10:42,900 --> 03:10:45,400
somewhere so forever. 
Like you know, director Hoover's

3828
03:10:45,400 --> 03:10:49,700
favorite was the Butte office of
Butte Montana needs to be an FBI

3829
03:10:49,700 --> 03:10:53,800
Division and it was known for 
like that was that was The 

3830
03:10:53,808 --> 03:10:56,200
Penalty Box hardware and nobody 
wants to be there. 

3831
03:10:56,200 --> 03:10:57,900
Yeah. 
Then turns out that folks got 

3832
03:10:57,900 --> 03:11:02,800
out there and they're like man 
fishing here and there's some 

3833
03:11:02,800 --> 03:11:04,300
criminals stuff. 
I wouldn't do a criminal case 

3834
03:11:04,300 --> 03:11:07,100
out here. 
Yeah, so now those kind of 

3835
03:11:07,108 --> 03:11:09,400
places are like see just not 
that there aren't grateful that 

3836
03:11:09,400 --> 03:11:12,500
working, she just criminal 
justice Information Services 

3837
03:11:12,500 --> 03:11:15,900
Division that's where I like her
fingerprint, records and 

3838
03:11:15,900 --> 03:11:18,300
Analysis are but it's also where
they've created and talk 

3839
03:11:18,300 --> 03:11:19,700
National threat operations 
center. 

3840
03:11:19,700 --> 03:11:23,600
So anytime somebody calls like 
1-800 you know FBI we got a 

3841
03:11:23,600 --> 03:11:28,800
problem, it goes to end talk. 
So, anyway, I get that I 

3842
03:11:28,800 --> 03:11:30,400
received that. 
I've got an attorney at this 

3843
03:11:30,408 --> 03:11:35,400
point and I For that email to 
deputy director Paul bait and 

3844
03:11:35,400 --> 03:11:36,600
said. 
All right, this is happening. 

3845
03:11:36,600 --> 03:11:39,000
I've already reported this to 
doj oig. 

3846
03:11:39,000 --> 03:11:41,800
This is malfeasance. 
This was an attempt to suborn 

3847
03:11:41,800 --> 03:11:43,200
perjury on my agents. 
This happened. 

3848
03:11:43,200 --> 03:11:49,900
Do something about it. 
Crickets. but, Maybe the next 

3849
03:11:49,900 --> 03:11:54,500
day I get an email revised email
back from Salt Lake because I 

3850
03:11:54,500 --> 03:11:57,300
include them on that email. 
Every time I launch an email, I 

3851
03:11:57,300 --> 03:11:59,800
include the sac and the Asics 
they see exactly where I'm 

3852
03:11:59,800 --> 03:12:00,800
throwing them. 
Yep. 

3853
03:12:02,300 --> 03:12:05,200
And my I'm still going to see 
just put my unit has changed. 

3854
03:12:05,200 --> 03:12:07,800
Now I'm going to instead of the 
worst unit, the best unit in 

3855
03:12:07,800 --> 03:12:09,400
Siege which is global 
initiatives unit. 

3856
03:12:11,000 --> 03:12:13,200
I find out that there's no 
position there for me to fill 

3857
03:12:13,200 --> 03:12:20,200
but they want me there and 
again, waffle order I report I'm

3858
03:12:20,200 --> 03:12:22,600
worn by the agency Association, 
that a loss of Effectiveness. 

3859
03:12:22,600 --> 03:12:26,800
Transfer request is coming and 
it lands on me right after I get

3860
03:12:26,808 --> 03:12:29,200
to see just some West Virginia 
loss of affecting us. 

3861
03:12:29,200 --> 03:12:33,900
So that is a mechanism that Salt
Lake managers Put into play 

3862
03:12:33,900 --> 03:12:38,200
before, they'd even interviewed 
my partners in North Idaho that 

3863
03:12:38,200 --> 03:12:40,200
they were going to try to 
transfer me because I had ruined

3864
03:12:40,200 --> 03:12:42,200
all these relationships even 
though they haven't talked about

3865
03:12:42,200 --> 03:12:44,000
you and where was the transport 
to? 

3866
03:12:44,000 --> 03:12:47,600
It's just headquarters at all. 
So it is a mechanism, good and 

3867
03:12:47,600 --> 03:12:50,300
bad to get somebody a paid 
transfer out of a problem. 

3868
03:12:50,308 --> 03:12:57,300
So, let's say that maybe you're 
going through Maybe your poor 

3869
03:12:57,300 --> 03:12:59,500
performer and you know, things 
are toxic in the area that 

3870
03:12:59,500 --> 03:13:01,400
you're at and they need to get 
you out of there and they want 

3871
03:13:01,400 --> 03:13:04,900
to do a paid transfer or maybe 
things outside your control you 

3872
03:13:04,900 --> 03:13:06,200
know you're involved in a 
shooting. 

3873
03:13:06,200 --> 03:13:09,600
It's a good shoot. 
But you know say it's like in 

3874
03:13:09,600 --> 03:13:12,800
Puerto Rico and like things are 
getting dangerously anymore. 

3875
03:13:12,800 --> 03:13:14,600
Yeah. 
So they'll do a loss of 

3876
03:13:14,608 --> 03:13:16,500
Effectiveness transfer. 
So don't have to be bad but in 

3877
03:13:16,500 --> 03:13:19,500
my case it was all bad clearly. 
It was unbelievable. 

3878
03:13:19,500 --> 03:13:25,800
Indictment of my character. 
So I get that and That sucked, I

3879
03:13:25,800 --> 03:13:28,600
will not lie. 
So I go back and it's a, I don't

3880
03:13:28,608 --> 03:13:32,000
know, 12 page. 
EC. 

3881
03:13:32,900 --> 03:13:36,000
Memo of just Factor p. 
O s. 

3882
03:13:36,000 --> 03:13:39,100
Zack is a liar. 
Zach can't work with women. 

3883
03:13:39,100 --> 03:13:41,600
Zach can't communicate. 
He can't lead. 

3884
03:13:41,600 --> 03:13:46,300
He's talk sick on and on like, 
you know, everything before you 

3885
03:13:46,300 --> 03:13:48,200
just so, you know, I'm just 
crushing, you know. 

3886
03:13:48,200 --> 03:13:50,100
So like getting your point you 
made these comments earlier 

3887
03:13:50,100 --> 03:13:53,100
about when the Betrayal hits the
betrayals been hitting but then 

3888
03:13:53,100 --> 03:13:55,800
it it landed with a hard. 
Yeah, that's the actual knife 

3889
03:13:55,800 --> 03:13:58,200
getting. 
So that's where, you know, Kurt 

3890
03:13:58,200 --> 03:14:01,100
his credit saved me to some 
point at that, Junction back in 

3891
03:14:01,100 --> 03:14:02,800
by myself. 
I'm back in a hotel. 

3892
03:14:02,800 --> 03:14:04,200
Like, I'm sitting at the 
Marriott, you know. 

3893
03:14:04,208 --> 03:14:08,800
Oh no, it's all. 
I want you to be by yourself. 

3894
03:14:08,800 --> 03:14:10,800
Yeah. 
When you receive this, don't 

3895
03:14:10,800 --> 03:14:12,600
have your support and I work. 
You have your kids to realize 

3896
03:14:12,600 --> 03:14:15,700
respective, you don't have your 
friends coffee shop or the 

3897
03:14:15,700 --> 03:14:17,700
restaurant. 
You'd normally go to Just 

3898
03:14:17,700 --> 03:14:20,200
Breathe It Out. 
You're now like locked in a 

3899
03:14:20,200 --> 03:14:20,900
place where you don't know 
anybody. 

3900
03:14:20,900 --> 03:14:24,900
So, Kurt warn me early on that 
the Playbook was coming and that

3901
03:14:25,500 --> 03:14:28,100
Nearly everybody else, breaks 
down under it. 

3902
03:14:28,100 --> 03:14:31,800
They start drinking, they could 
DUIs they get into a fight. 

3903
03:14:31,800 --> 03:14:35,300
They make a mistake or the 
checkout. 

3904
03:14:35,300 --> 03:14:36,800
Yeah. 
Or they check out really quick. 

3905
03:14:36,800 --> 03:14:39,600
He's like, Zach, they're gonna 
try to get you to break or 

3906
03:14:39,600 --> 03:14:40,500
they're gonna try and get you to
quit. 

3907
03:14:40,500 --> 03:14:43,000
So I call him and I'm telling 
him about this and he's like, 

3908
03:14:43,000 --> 03:14:46,200
hey man, I know that sucks. 
But now's not the time to just 

3909
03:14:46,200 --> 03:14:48,300
lay in it. 
You need to execute and call 

3910
03:14:48,300 --> 03:14:50,300
some people and get people to 
write letters about what they 

3911
03:14:50,308 --> 03:14:53,100
think about you and like Roger 
that so 40 letters later. 

3912
03:14:53,100 --> 03:14:57,200
I'm you know I'm sending these 
as my response, my response was 

3913
03:14:57,200 --> 03:15:00,900
a two-page letter from me to the
assistant director of hrd saying

3914
03:15:00,900 --> 03:15:03,100
hey this is who I am. 
Was that person? 

3915
03:15:03,100 --> 03:15:09,300
Um yeah I'm not gonna remember 
that of Human Resources Division

3916
03:15:09,300 --> 03:15:15,600
he had just got the job just and
so at that point was also 

3917
03:15:15,600 --> 03:15:17,600
affecting this you're 
Transformers effectively, 

3918
03:15:17,600 --> 03:15:20,200
already been approved because 
again you're guilty until proven

3919
03:15:20,200 --> 03:15:24,300
innocent, you're transfers 
approved but they give you a You

3920
03:15:24,300 --> 03:15:27,100
know, you can respond time frame
window. 

3921
03:15:27,100 --> 03:15:32,200
So my response was like, I think
37 letters a combination of my 

3922
03:15:32,200 --> 03:15:34,800
local state law enforcement, non
law, enforcement Partners, 

3923
03:15:34,800 --> 03:15:37,200
tribal non-tribal. 
You name it everybody. 

3924
03:15:37,200 --> 03:15:39,400
I reached out to for the most 
part was more than happy to 

3925
03:15:39,408 --> 03:15:42,500
write their own letter. 
All I told them was they're 

3926
03:15:42,500 --> 03:15:44,800
calling me everything under the 
sun and saying that you won't 

3927
03:15:44,800 --> 03:15:47,400
work with the FBI anymore 
because of me, you write what 

3928
03:15:47,400 --> 03:15:51,400
you want and some incredible 
letters came back, very humbling

3929
03:15:51,400 --> 03:15:54,900
and then I reached out to some 
mostly retire, but some former 

3930
03:15:54,900 --> 03:16:00,200
FBI and DEA agents, everything 
from executive to Saks asaps to 

3931
03:16:00,200 --> 03:16:02,400
line agents to include two 
agents that work for me and 

3932
03:16:02,400 --> 03:16:04,800
retired in Quarter Lane. 
Yeah, so hey, this is happening,

3933
03:16:04,800 --> 03:16:07,900
I'm going to use your life if 
you are willing to write a 

3934
03:16:07,900 --> 03:16:09,800
letter of what it was like to 
work with me, I'm going to send 

3935
03:16:09,800 --> 03:16:11,500
her bottle. 
So I get all those back in. 

3936
03:16:12,200 --> 03:16:15,700
So, Mike, two, effectively, 
two-page cover letter. and those

3937
03:16:15,700 --> 03:16:21,100
letters just and all my previous
performance reviews but I've 

3938
03:16:21,100 --> 03:16:24,400
been there. 
So for three years And you got 

3939
03:16:24,400 --> 03:16:27,400
one like quarterly, what you get
them annually but then you get 

3940
03:16:27,400 --> 03:16:30,300
your checking checks. 
So, you know, I like, you know, 

3941
03:16:30,300 --> 03:16:34,700
see exhibits, a one, two, and 
three of my previous performance

3942
03:16:34,700 --> 03:16:39,400
and look at the one I just got 
60 days before this, you know, I

3943
03:16:39,400 --> 03:16:41,600
get removed. 
So something very different 

3944
03:16:41,600 --> 03:16:45,800
about me anyway. 
So, that gets launched. 

3945
03:16:46,700 --> 03:16:50,800
I also then. 
Communicate the director Wray. 

3946
03:16:51,600 --> 03:16:54,400
I'm taking this to Congress sir,
and this is wrong. 

3947
03:16:54,400 --> 03:16:57,100
You should send me back home 
where my family is. 

3948
03:16:57,800 --> 03:17:00,900
His he responds to me that Zach.
Thank you. 

3949
03:17:00,900 --> 03:17:04,300
I've let Inspection Division, 
know, and do you Jay oig know 

3950
03:17:05,500 --> 03:17:06,800
Like, how about the send me 
back? 

3951
03:17:06,800 --> 03:17:08,500
Home part sir. 
He doesn't respond to that. 

3952
03:17:08,508 --> 03:17:11,300
He followed back up to him. 
Yeah, I love it. 

3953
03:17:11,300 --> 03:17:14,200
Yeah, and included the essay 
that email. 

3954
03:17:14,200 --> 03:17:16,300
Yeah. 
Oh yeah, I'm gonna know what was

3955
03:17:16,300 --> 03:17:17,000
going on? 
Absolutely. 

3956
03:17:17,000 --> 03:17:18,700
Yeah. 
I don't do things in the shadows

3957
03:17:18,700 --> 03:17:22,300
know. 
So I get crickets from that. 

3958
03:17:22,300 --> 03:17:25,000
Meantime, I'm trying to figure 
out what I can do. 

3959
03:17:25,000 --> 03:17:26,900
Useful for. 
She just there quickly realizing

3960
03:17:26,900 --> 03:17:30,800
that. 
I'm not as hero. and, They're 

3961
03:17:30,800 --> 03:17:33,600
also realizing that. 
He's getting screwed here. 

3962
03:17:33,600 --> 03:17:37,100
So she just on their own comes 
up with a plan for me to 

3963
03:17:37,100 --> 03:17:40,700
continue to work for sieges, but
do it from my home and Idaho, 

3964
03:17:40,700 --> 03:17:43,300
oh, boy. 
So she disagrees to send me 

3965
03:17:43,300 --> 03:17:45,900
home? 
And work for them remotely. 

3966
03:17:45,900 --> 03:17:49,700
And then if part of that. 
So this guy that's so toxic 

3967
03:17:49,700 --> 03:17:51,200
can't lead. 
Can't communicate you want? 

3968
03:17:51,200 --> 03:17:54,800
The job is that they give me. 
So you just Travel the country 

3969
03:17:54,800 --> 03:17:57,100
for us and sell these programs 
for us. 

3970
03:17:58,400 --> 03:18:00,600
Roger that Where do you want me 
to go first? 

3971
03:18:01,400 --> 03:18:02,500
Get all the West Coast 
divisions. 

3972
03:18:02,500 --> 03:18:03,800
Can you come up with a plan and 
a budget? 

3973
03:18:03,808 --> 03:18:05,600
Am I get no problem done. 
Here we go. 

3974
03:18:05,608 --> 03:18:07,100
It's how much is going to cost 
me to travel? 

3975
03:18:07,100 --> 03:18:09,500
I can travel one to two weeks 
out of the month. 

3976
03:18:09,500 --> 03:18:12,500
I'll fly out on Like, Mondays. 
I'll fly home on Fridays. 

3977
03:18:12,500 --> 03:18:16,200
I can hit almost every ra I can 
get in contact with and I just 

3978
03:18:16,200 --> 03:18:22,000
press execute on that, but it's 
At that point, it's November. 

3979
03:18:23,200 --> 03:18:26,500
I'm coming up on the end of my 
initial 90-day TDY. 

3980
03:18:27,400 --> 03:18:30,800
And the asaps in Salt Lake call 
me and say, hey, Zack. 

3981
03:18:30,800 --> 03:18:32,900
So we got word back from the 80 
of hrd. 

3982
03:18:33,700 --> 03:18:36,500
They didn't approve your 
transfer, I'm like, great. 

3983
03:18:36,500 --> 03:18:40,200
So I'm going back into the ra. 
Know, we're going to bring you 

3984
03:18:40,200 --> 03:18:42,300
down at Salt Lake City for 
another 90 days, and we're going

3985
03:18:42,300 --> 03:18:44,300
to put you on a pit. 
For those that don't know what a

3986
03:18:44,300 --> 03:18:46,800
pip is, that's a performance 
Improvement plan because again, 

3987
03:18:46,800 --> 03:18:50,700
Zach your horrible I'm like, all
right, well after that am I 

3988
03:18:50,700 --> 03:18:52,200
going back in the ra though? 
They're like no. 

3989
03:18:52,200 --> 03:18:53,900
What's the job in Salt Lake? 
I'm going to do. 

3990
03:18:53,900 --> 03:18:57,500
We're still working on that but 
you're going to report to me the

3991
03:18:57,500 --> 03:18:59,900
administrative aspect now Okay. 
Snake. 

3992
03:19:02,100 --> 03:19:04,000
So do we get his name not 
hurting? 

3993
03:19:04,000 --> 03:19:07,500
No, no, but obviously, he's 
promoting he's now section chief

3994
03:19:07,500 --> 03:19:10,000
because That's how the bureau 
roles. 

3995
03:19:10,000 --> 03:19:15,900
So I then I reached out to some,
of my retired. 

3996
03:19:15,900 --> 03:19:19,500
Guys, I'm like, how do I and the
Ageless station, how do I get in

3997
03:19:19,500 --> 03:19:21,700
front of this? 
Like, this is unbelievable. 

3998
03:19:21,700 --> 03:19:24,600
I'm used to being able to walk 
into sacks office with my 

3999
03:19:24,608 --> 03:19:26,600
reputation and just feel like, 
sir, what do you need for me? 

4000
03:19:26,608 --> 03:19:31,700
This is what I need from you. 
And I I get the you should call 

4001
03:19:31,700 --> 03:19:35,200
this EAD. 
So, I text her, I emailed her on

4002
03:19:35,200 --> 03:19:37,800
a Saturday and I was on the 
phone with her by Monday. 

4003
03:19:38,500 --> 03:19:41,400
And with the 80 of hrd. 
So this was the EAD over Human 

4004
03:19:41,400 --> 03:19:42,100
Resources. 
Branch. 

4005
03:19:42,100 --> 03:19:46,200
Who is Not viewed favorably with
some of the security division 

4006
03:19:46,200 --> 03:19:49,600
things that she has done. 
And some of the testimony that 

4007
03:19:49,600 --> 03:19:51,800
she has given look drunk. 
He's my favorite. 

4008
03:19:51,800 --> 03:19:53,200
I don't know what you're talking
about her here. 

4009
03:19:53,200 --> 03:19:57,000
So anyway, I have a conversation
with her and it's it's it's 

4010
03:19:57,000 --> 03:20:00,400
three human beings on the phone.
So much for not like dropping 

4011
03:20:00,400 --> 03:20:01,700
names. 
I have to drop this name. 

4012
03:20:01,700 --> 03:20:05,500
She needs to be so he's gonna be
explored she communicates with 

4013
03:20:05,500 --> 03:20:09,700
me and she's like, Zach for 
everything you've been through. 

4014
03:20:09,700 --> 03:20:11,400
You look like you're pretty well
put together. 

4015
03:20:11,400 --> 03:20:14,100
I'm like, Well, ma'am, I don't 
trust anybody at this point and 

4016
03:20:14,108 --> 03:20:17,300
I'm also well aware that like if
you appear to be a basket case, 

4017
03:20:17,300 --> 03:20:19,500
that's a reason for spending 
your security clearance, 

4018
03:20:19,500 --> 03:20:20,900
correct? 
I'm like, oh man. 

4019
03:20:20,900 --> 03:20:23,800
Make no mistake. 
This is sucked a lot. 

4020
03:20:25,700 --> 03:20:30,200
But I'm fine. 
It's like, okay I like but this 

4021
03:20:30,200 --> 03:20:32,300
is wrong. 
All of it. 

4022
03:20:33,300 --> 03:20:34,700
Up and down from the very 
beginning. 

4023
03:20:34,700 --> 03:20:37,300
So we talked for an hour and a 
half or so. 

4024
03:20:39,000 --> 03:20:41,800
Agents Association takes this 
directly to the deputy director.

4025
03:20:42,700 --> 03:20:47,300
And the PIP is denied. 
Oh wow, Zach, can you maybe do 

4026
03:20:47,300 --> 03:20:49,300
just another 90 days with this 
work from homeless. 

4027
03:20:49,300 --> 03:20:50,700
He just while we kind of clean 
this up. 

4028
03:20:50,700 --> 03:20:54,000
Sure. 
Now, you're a subject of an 

4029
03:20:54,000 --> 03:20:57,900
internal investigation. 
Yeah, they told you that know, I

4030
03:20:57,900 --> 03:21:02,900
get I get told that by Salt Lake
division, the 80 of hrd is say 

4031
03:21:02,900 --> 03:21:04,000
and he's like, we're going to 
clean this up. 

4032
03:21:04,008 --> 03:21:06,400
Can you do know the 90 days? 
We're real. 

4033
03:21:06,400 --> 03:21:11,300
Sorry about this. 
So we'll disconnect their love 

4034
03:21:11,300 --> 03:21:13,100
people. 
A lot of people really trying to

4035
03:21:13,108 --> 03:21:15,000
look out for you and and get 
roadblock. 

4036
03:21:15,800 --> 03:21:17,000
Machines, doing with the machine
does? 

4037
03:21:17,000 --> 03:21:19,400
Yeah. 
I brought embarrassment to the 

4038
03:21:19,400 --> 03:21:20,900
bureau. 
I've never reported it to 

4039
03:21:20,900 --> 03:21:25,300
Congress. 
I will not as I was advised by A

4040
03:21:25,300 --> 03:21:26,400
good man. 
The ages Association. 

4041
03:21:26,400 --> 03:21:27,700
President. 
Trump's good guy. 

4042
03:21:27,700 --> 03:21:31,000
He advised music, like, Zach. 
I know what you did was right. 

4043
03:21:31,000 --> 03:21:35,200
I know what they did was wrong 
with the bureau is a really big 

4044
03:21:35,200 --> 03:21:38,700
machine to fight. 
You may want to consider not 

4045
03:21:38,700 --> 03:21:41,500
fighting this fight in begging 
for mercy and trying to get a 

4046
03:21:41,500 --> 03:21:44,400
soft Landing for yourself. 
So somewhere I'm like, I hear 

4047
03:21:44,400 --> 03:21:46,500
you, man. 
But I just, I mean, not that 

4048
03:21:46,500 --> 03:21:48,300
person. 
You don't have it in you for 

4049
03:21:48,300 --> 03:21:49,400
better for worse, I'm not that 
person. 

4050
03:21:49,400 --> 03:21:54,900
So, um, anyway, that TDY was, he
just kept getting extended 90 

4051
03:21:54,900 --> 03:21:57,400
days, 60 days, 90 days 60 days. 
Never knew when it was going to 

4052
03:21:57,400 --> 03:22:00,500
end Inspection Division. 
You know, interviewed me last 

4053
03:22:00,500 --> 03:22:02,800
took forever to finally get that
done. 

4054
03:22:02,800 --> 03:22:05,800
Then it got moved to Oprah and 
then it was like, well, is it 

4055
03:22:05,808 --> 03:22:07,300
done? 
Is it done like what, what's 

4056
03:22:07,300 --> 03:22:10,000
happening here? 
You know, I've got my I've got 

4057
03:22:10,000 --> 03:22:13,000
Kurt as an attorney, I've got 
attorneys from the age 

4058
03:22:13,000 --> 03:22:14,400
Association which were 
phenomenal guys. 

4059
03:22:14,400 --> 03:22:16,400
Again, I'm a big proponent of 
being Association because 

4060
03:22:16,400 --> 03:22:25,100
they've always been there for me
and then February of 2024, I am 

4061
03:22:25,100 --> 03:22:28,800
on my way back from a trip to La
where I visited the LA office in

4062
03:22:28,800 --> 03:22:31,900
their own race. 
And like she just called me and 

4063
03:22:31,900 --> 03:22:33,400
like, man, we're getting these 
rave reviews. 

4064
03:22:33,400 --> 03:22:35,700
Like you know, thank you for 
everything you do like use of 

4065
03:22:35,700 --> 03:22:37,300
these programs. 
Just go away through the roof 

4066
03:22:37,300 --> 03:22:41,800
and I get a voicemail when I hit
my connect from the new sac and 

4067
03:22:41,800 --> 03:22:44,400
Salt Lake Division, and its sack
Can you call me? 

4068
03:22:45,700 --> 03:22:47,500
And I do and she's like exactly 
Europe. 

4069
03:22:47,500 --> 03:22:49,600
Paperwork is Landon, can you 
meet me in the Quarter Lane 

4070
03:22:49,608 --> 03:22:52,400
already tomorrow morning? 
I was like, yes, ma'am. 

4071
03:22:56,300 --> 03:22:59,800
So I land in Coeur Lane, you 
know, I'm preparing for this 

4072
03:22:59,800 --> 03:23:02,200
10:00 meeting. 
I reach out to all my attorneys,

4073
03:23:02,200 --> 03:23:03,900
Kurt included, and it's like, 
man. 

4074
03:23:04,500 --> 03:23:06,600
It's the apology tour like if 
they were going to do something 

4075
03:23:06,600 --> 03:23:08,900
else like they're gonna fire you
they'd call you in Salt Lake 

4076
03:23:08,900 --> 03:23:10,000
City like they're coming up to 
you. 

4077
03:23:10,000 --> 03:23:11,700
They're gonna put you back into 
the ssra. 

4078
03:23:11,700 --> 03:23:13,200
They're going to discuss you off
and say we're real. 

4079
03:23:13,200 --> 03:23:15,800
Sorry about that. 
And I'm like, I don't know 

4080
03:23:15,800 --> 03:23:17,600
fellas, but we'll see what 
happens. 

4081
03:23:17,600 --> 03:23:21,900
And I walk in and it's her, then
the female Sac for Salt Lake 

4082
03:23:21,900 --> 03:23:24,100
division, the brand new creme 
ASAP web never met. 

4083
03:23:24,900 --> 03:23:29,600
And the security guy. 
Good man former retired army 

4084
03:23:29,600 --> 03:23:32,100
officer, CSO CSO Chief security 
officer. 

4085
03:23:32,100 --> 03:23:33,900
Yep, they sent me down at the 
table. 

4086
03:23:34,800 --> 03:23:36,000
And you know, it's like bad 
news. 

4087
03:23:36,000 --> 03:23:37,600
You never know how to deliver it
and she's like Zach. 

4088
03:23:38,300 --> 03:23:41,500
I'm sorry, it's dismissal. 
Like okay. 

4089
03:23:43,200 --> 03:23:45,600
He's just staring at me, it's 
like, all right, well, I've got 

4090
03:23:45,608 --> 03:23:47,300
this packet for you to read when
you're ready. 

4091
03:23:47,300 --> 03:23:49,500
And then we've got to start 
processing this. 

4092
03:23:49,500 --> 03:23:52,500
And my poor Chief security 
officer starts. 

4093
03:23:52,500 --> 03:23:54,700
Reading me out of the security 
clearance and he's shaking. 

4094
03:23:56,000 --> 03:23:58,800
And he's like be clear, your 
security clearance isn't being 

4095
03:23:58,800 --> 03:24:02,000
revoked, you're just being read 
out and he's shaking, he's like 

4096
03:24:02,000 --> 03:24:05,000
missing where he needs me to 
sign and I put my hand on his 

4097
03:24:05,000 --> 03:24:08,200
shoulder. 
And I'm like, brother, you're 

4098
03:24:08,200 --> 03:24:09,500
not the one getting walked out 
today. 

4099
03:24:09,500 --> 03:24:12,600
Take a deep breath, right? 
And it was enough to break, you 

4100
03:24:12,600 --> 03:24:13,800
know, kind of break some 
attention in the room. 

4101
03:24:13,800 --> 03:24:16,000
We got through that ASX, 
obviously very nervous because 

4102
03:24:16,000 --> 03:24:19,400
I'm gonna loaded gun. 
You know, and he's like, hey, 

4103
03:24:19,400 --> 03:24:21,800
can you, you know what kind of 
holster you wearing? 

4104
03:24:21,800 --> 03:24:24,400
And I'm like, inside the 
waistband, is it one of those 

4105
03:24:24,400 --> 03:24:26,300
that you could kind of, like, 
take off hand to me, I'm like, 

4106
03:24:26,308 --> 03:24:28,900
yeah, could you take it off and 
leave the gun in the holster? 

4107
03:24:28,900 --> 03:24:30,100
No problem. 
Here's the gun. 

4108
03:24:30,100 --> 03:24:33,200
That's the same way to give a 
gun to an a sec. 

4109
03:24:33,200 --> 03:24:35,200
You don't want to give them a 
loaded weapon, I haven't touched

4110
03:24:35,200 --> 03:24:38,100
it. 
So I hand everything over and 

4111
03:24:38,100 --> 03:24:39,800
it's like, all right. 
Well, you know, I don't have all

4112
03:24:39,800 --> 03:24:41,400
my I have my view car in the 
parking lot. 

4113
03:24:41,400 --> 03:24:43,800
But I've seen I have stuff at 
home laptops and stuff at home. 

4114
03:24:43,800 --> 03:24:46,200
They're like, yep, we've figured
that we're gonna need to just 

4115
03:24:46,200 --> 03:24:51,000
follow you back to your house 
like, okay. so that Agent. 

4116
03:24:51,000 --> 03:24:54,200
That was my Nemesis in the area,
was the only other person that 

4117
03:24:54,200 --> 03:24:57,000
was there. 
And I was like, I don't want him

4118
03:24:57,000 --> 03:25:00,500
coming to my house because I 
know what he is and they sex 

4119
03:25:00,500 --> 03:25:03,400
like well, He's the only other 
agent I got because we kicked 

4120
03:25:03,400 --> 03:25:06,400
everybody else home. 
I need him to be there to have 

4121
03:25:06,408 --> 03:25:09,500
two agents there. 
I'm thinking about it and I'm 

4122
03:25:09,500 --> 03:25:11,700
like, I'm real pissed. 
I'm like, I don't want this. 

4123
03:25:12,500 --> 03:25:15,700
EOS on my property but I also 
don't want to prolong this thing

4124
03:25:15,708 --> 03:25:18,100
and he comes back. 
He's like how about he just 

4125
03:25:18,108 --> 03:25:19,500
stays in the car? 
I'm like sold. 

4126
03:25:20,200 --> 03:25:22,100
So they already. 
So my office that this whole 

4127
03:25:22,108 --> 03:25:24,700
point for a year and a half had 
been like in mothballs, like all

4128
03:25:24,700 --> 03:25:26,800
my pictures are still in the 
wall, kids picture on the desk, 

4129
03:25:26,800 --> 03:25:29,800
all that stuff, they'd boxed it 
all up, they were ready, they 

4130
03:25:29,800 --> 03:25:33,700
put it in my truck in the The 
Bureau car and they finally back

4131
03:25:33,700 --> 03:25:36,400
to my house and they've got the 
list of all my FBI property and 

4132
03:25:36,408 --> 03:25:38,500
it's like up. 
Here's my M4 is my laptop way. 

4133
03:25:38,500 --> 03:25:39,900
Here's my body armor. 
Boom, boom. 

4134
03:25:39,900 --> 03:25:46,300
I want to keep the M4, right? 
Just so handle that over. 

4135
03:25:48,000 --> 03:25:51,000
Quick efficient. 
The ASAP is like, I want to say 

4136
03:25:51,008 --> 03:25:53,000
thank you for how you've handled
this. 

4137
03:25:53,000 --> 03:25:56,700
I'm like, yeah, I understand I 
don't think the picture 

4138
03:25:56,700 --> 03:25:59,100
understand, like, I get it. 
I understand, he leaves. 

4139
03:25:59,100 --> 03:26:01,900
I never met him before the chief
security officers just like 

4140
03:26:01,900 --> 03:26:05,200
soccer, you, okay? 
And I was like, thanks John. 

4141
03:26:06,300 --> 03:26:09,100
Him a hug. 
He walked out a new how 

4142
03:26:09,100 --> 03:26:10,200
uncomfortable he was. 
Yep. 

4143
03:26:10,200 --> 03:26:13,400
So I can only imagine how 
helpless he thought because I 

4144
03:26:13,408 --> 03:26:15,500
knew what was happening. 
He know what was wrong, they 

4145
03:26:15,500 --> 03:26:17,300
know what's wrong but he had to 
feel powerless. 

4146
03:26:17,300 --> 03:26:19,700
What can you do? 
He's doing the lawful orders, 

4147
03:26:19,700 --> 03:26:22,400
he's being what he's got to do 
and like it's not illegal 

4148
03:26:22,400 --> 03:26:26,700
immoral so you know they left 
and then I made my phone calls, 

4149
03:26:26,700 --> 03:26:30,800
you know, and it was like all 
the attorneys were like What 

4150
03:26:30,800 --> 03:26:33,400
just happened? 
Like, um, I'm proposed for 

4151
03:26:33,400 --> 03:26:36,900
dismissal but because I was a 
veteran, I know not all veterans

4152
03:26:36,900 --> 03:26:39,200
have gotten this treatment. 
Some Guardians Were Somehow 

4153
03:26:39,200 --> 03:26:40,400
looking out for me, they put me 
on. 

4154
03:26:40,400 --> 03:26:45,200
Paid administrative leave. 
While I appealed, Um so I was on

4155
03:26:45,200 --> 03:26:46,900
paid administrative leave from 
February till August. 

4156
03:26:46,900 --> 03:26:50,600
Unfortunately, my dad died 16 
days after that notice of 

4157
03:26:50,600 --> 03:26:54,700
dismissal. 
But they got to redact the opr 

4158
03:26:54,700 --> 03:26:57,700
file reviewed it. 
And I probably submitted back 

4159
03:26:57,700 --> 03:27:01,400
the world's largest appeal 
because I had been conducting 

4160
03:27:01,400 --> 03:27:05,000
eeo and whistleblower 
investigations against the 

4161
03:27:05,000 --> 03:27:08,100
government. 
And I had depositions done, I 

4162
03:27:08,100 --> 03:27:14,500
had a pile of stuff I had 
evidence of Perjury, all that 

4163
03:27:14,500 --> 03:27:15,900
stuff. 
So that goes back. 

4164
03:27:17,100 --> 03:27:18,700
I ultimately go back before, 
opr. 

4165
03:27:19,800 --> 03:27:22,900
And they don't even allow me to 
finish my opening statement for.

4166
03:27:22,900 --> 03:27:26,000
They start cutting me off and 
just hammering me and ultimately

4167
03:27:26,000 --> 03:27:32,400
they boil it down to this. 
Jack your failure in judgment to

4168
03:27:32,400 --> 03:27:35,900
not instruct your agency to do a
more aggressive investigation of

4169
03:27:35,900 --> 03:27:39,400
the Patriot front. 
Was wrong and wrong to the 

4170
03:27:39,400 --> 03:27:42,300
degree because this was at the 
deputies level deputy director 

4171
03:27:42,300 --> 03:27:44,500
and Deputy attorney general, 
that. 

4172
03:27:44,500 --> 03:27:47,600
That poor judgment is risen to 
severe. 

4173
03:27:48,600 --> 03:27:52,400
Misconduct. 
So again, how subjective can you

4174
03:27:52,408 --> 03:27:55,800
make this? 
And then my August, I got a 

4175
03:27:55,808 --> 03:27:59,600
FedEx letter that said that the 
ad of opr was upholding the 

4176
03:28:00,600 --> 03:28:02,900
Dismissal and I was henceforth 
dismissed. 

4177
03:28:02,900 --> 03:28:05,300
So as you know, lose your health
insurance lose your pay. 

4178
03:28:05,300 --> 03:28:08,300
I mean I could have lost my pay 
in February but I kept it, you 

4179
03:28:08,300 --> 03:28:10,600
know, somebody's decision 
probably at hrd. 

4180
03:28:11,500 --> 03:28:14,300
Because again I think some 
people that could see wrong. 

4181
03:28:14,300 --> 03:28:17,600
So wrong and did what they 
thought they could do without 

4182
03:28:17,600 --> 03:28:20,000
causing a bunch of waves to 
protect me. 

4183
03:28:22,300 --> 03:28:25,400
And then I started, you know, I 
survived that I followed my 

4184
03:28:25,408 --> 03:28:29,400
other motions for appeal 
continued, my other fights of 

4185
03:28:29,400 --> 03:28:32,200
going through, the government's 
kangaroo courts of EEOC and 

4186
03:28:32,200 --> 03:28:36,400
oerm. 
And I had been in communication 

4187
03:28:36,400 --> 03:28:39,800
with the house select committee 
on what position of government. 

4188
03:28:39,800 --> 03:28:42,800
They're the ones that connected 
me with random Devine. 

4189
03:28:42,800 --> 03:28:44,900
They're still talking about 
potential testimony with me. 

4190
03:28:44,900 --> 03:28:48,300
The Senate Judiciary Committee 
is talking about testimony with 

4191
03:28:48,300 --> 03:28:53,700
me and yeah. 
So like that's death and me 

4192
03:28:53,700 --> 03:28:55,900
trying to figure out like, what 
my next chapter in life was 

4193
03:28:55,900 --> 03:28:59,900
going to be I took over the 
Family Farms business. 

4194
03:28:59,900 --> 03:29:04,800
I have two questions. only well,
just these are two really direct

4195
03:29:04,800 --> 03:29:08,500
questions and they'll probably 
If you had to do it all over 

4196
03:29:08,500 --> 03:29:10,500
again, would you do the same 
thing? 

4197
03:29:12,600 --> 03:29:16,400
I think I thought about that. 
I know, yeah, I wouldn't push 

4198
03:29:16,400 --> 03:29:22,600
harder in the beginning to stick
my foot down that The city's 

4199
03:29:22,600 --> 03:29:24,000
gonna execute its own search 
warrant. 

4200
03:29:24,800 --> 03:29:27,400
Because as we could have had 
that executed, we could have had

4201
03:29:27,400 --> 03:29:29,500
those phones starting to get 
dumped that first week. 

4202
03:29:29,500 --> 03:29:33,900
After I said, maybe the second 
week after the event and it 

4203
03:29:33,900 --> 03:29:35,300
would have been quickly coming 
to light that. 

4204
03:29:35,300 --> 03:29:38,200
There is no evidence on these 
phones of conspiracy to write or

4205
03:29:38,200 --> 03:29:41,500
conduct other acts of violence. 
If I could have been persuasive 

4206
03:29:41,500 --> 03:29:44,800
enough to get through that even 
say like hey you guys go ahead 

4207
03:29:44,800 --> 03:29:46,800
and start drafting this Federal 
warrant but we're going to ask 

4208
03:29:46,800 --> 03:29:49,500
you the city one and if we come 
across the evidence of federal 

4209
03:29:49,500 --> 03:29:52,600
crime then we'll have some good 
fruits to put in to that warrant

4210
03:29:52,600 --> 03:29:54,500
and we'll execute the federal 
warrant on top of it. 

4211
03:29:54,500 --> 03:29:58,400
You do that all the time. 
I don't know that I had been 

4212
03:29:58,400 --> 03:30:00,900
successful because again, 
reading a room wasn't about what

4213
03:30:00,900 --> 03:30:03,300
the evidence you might find. 
It was about that flag, they're 

4214
03:30:03,300 --> 03:30:05,600
going to plant. 
That's what I would have done 

4215
03:30:05,608 --> 03:30:09,600
different beyond that. 
I followed every lawful order, I

4216
03:30:09,600 --> 03:30:10,900
was giving a reported 
misconduct. 

4217
03:30:10,900 --> 03:30:15,900
I supported my agents. 
I wish I could have done more to

4218
03:30:15,900 --> 03:30:18,900
protect them because they also 
got op art and I also know that 

4219
03:30:18,900 --> 03:30:26,800
they spent this entire time up 
getting I'm being trashed out in

4220
03:30:26,800 --> 03:30:29,200
the array because again, right, 
my reputation has to be soiled 

4221
03:30:29,200 --> 03:30:32,700
very hard. 
Everywhere to justify what's 

4222
03:30:32,700 --> 03:30:34,100
happened because it's it's 
saxophone. 

4223
03:30:34,100 --> 03:30:37,700
I say that because like I've 
written the read these 

4224
03:30:37,700 --> 03:30:39,700
statements from folks in the 
area and they all have the same 

4225
03:30:39,700 --> 03:30:42,500
darragh statements. 
Well I've heard since that 

4226
03:30:42,500 --> 03:30:44,300
removed that Improvement he 
couldn't get along with 

4227
03:30:44,300 --> 03:30:47,300
everybody and see that but I've 
heard that and you know, I heard

4228
03:30:47,300 --> 03:30:50,600
he was like late on a 3002 once 
it's like I signed a report 

4229
03:30:50,608 --> 03:30:53,300
late. 
Um, again stuff that they 

4230
03:30:53,300 --> 03:30:55,500
wouldn't be in a position to 
know, unless somebody told them 

4231
03:30:55,500 --> 03:30:58,100
and everyone had it in their 
interviews. 

4232
03:30:58,100 --> 03:31:01,000
So I thought that was painfully 
comical. 

4233
03:31:01,900 --> 03:31:05,900
But there's been. 
I've been extremely fortunate 

4234
03:31:05,900 --> 03:31:08,700
that I didn't crumble under the 
pressure. 

4235
03:31:09,500 --> 03:31:12,800
I didn't break any rules. 
I forced them to go all the way 

4236
03:31:12,800 --> 03:31:14,800
to the end of trying to make 
this very subjective decision 

4237
03:31:14,800 --> 03:31:16,300
that they probably know would 
get overturned. 

4238
03:31:16,300 --> 03:31:17,800
If I ultimately took a to a 
lawsuit. 

4239
03:31:18,600 --> 03:31:23,000
And I have maintained the 
support of my peers which is 

4240
03:31:23,000 --> 03:31:25,200
what I really care about. 
So in the middle of all this, 

4241
03:31:25,200 --> 03:31:29,700
I'm working for West Virginia. 
It is election time for Agents 

4242
03:31:29,700 --> 03:31:32,000
Association. 
Division reps. 

4243
03:31:32,000 --> 03:31:34,000
So, like division already has a 
rep. 

4244
03:31:34,000 --> 03:31:36,900
She wants to run again. 
Well, somebody puts my name 

4245
03:31:36,900 --> 03:31:40,600
forth even though I am the one 
not to be spoken of in Salt Lake

4246
03:31:40,608 --> 03:31:43,800
division. 
And I get elected as the new 

4247
03:31:43,800 --> 03:31:47,200
Agents Association rep, for Salt
Lake division in the middle of 

4248
03:31:47,200 --> 03:31:48,200
all this. 
And you know what? 

4249
03:31:48,200 --> 03:31:52,100
Every ASAP and SCC is also a 
voting member of the ages 

4250
03:31:52,100 --> 03:31:54,700
Association so I'm sure they 
didn't vote for me. 

4251
03:31:54,700 --> 03:31:57,200
I'm sure. 
But let me ask you, there were 

4252
03:31:57,200 --> 03:32:00,200
plenty of others that did and I 
went to work representing the 

4253
03:32:00,200 --> 03:32:04,100
division and I had times where 
the CDC had to call me as the 

4254
03:32:04,100 --> 03:32:07,400
ages Association rep and say, 
hey Zach. 

4255
03:32:07,400 --> 03:32:10,100
I got a call you because you're 
the rep and we just had a 

4256
03:32:10,108 --> 03:32:11,700
shooting and those guys are 
members. 

4257
03:32:11,700 --> 03:32:13,600
They got Roger that give me 
their names. 

4258
03:32:13,608 --> 03:32:15,400
Contact them. 
Hey thanks for calling me. 

4259
03:32:15,400 --> 03:32:17,100
Have a good day. 
Dick. 

4260
03:32:17,100 --> 03:32:20,500
So I want to. 
It was my first question and I 

4261
03:32:20,500 --> 03:32:26,200
want to say this, you know, I 
don't think the story is over. 

4262
03:32:26,900 --> 03:32:28,700
Oh no. 
We have a new president now so 

4263
03:32:28,700 --> 03:32:31,000
now I'm I mean I'm still 
fighting. 

4264
03:32:31,000 --> 03:32:34,400
I mean I'm keeping all my irons 
in the fire until the winds 

4265
03:32:34,400 --> 03:32:37,600
change but my next question. 
Is this yeah will you go back? 

4266
03:32:39,300 --> 03:32:42,000
Would you go back? 
Difficult. 

4267
03:32:42,000 --> 03:32:46,100
I would ask for an hour at this 
moment because I really need to 

4268
03:32:46,108 --> 03:32:47,900
use the restroom when we've been
chatting for hours. 

4269
03:32:47,900 --> 03:32:51,300
So, okay, you've two. 
Fine. 

4270
03:32:51,300 --> 03:32:53,400
Gentlemen Can Talk Amongst 
yourselves for a minute and I 

4271
03:32:53,400 --> 03:32:55,200
will come back and answer that 
question because I do think it's

4272
03:32:55,200 --> 03:33:01,000
important. 
I do feel yeah. 

4273
03:33:02,300 --> 03:33:04,500
What'd you think? 
You didn't know all that. 

4274
03:33:04,500 --> 03:33:07,800
Yeah, he's incredible. 
That's what you thought. 

4275
03:33:07,800 --> 03:33:10,700
SBI FBI agents were supposed to 
be right. 

4276
03:33:19,200 --> 03:33:25,300
It pisses you off. it's so like,
the crazy thing is too for me 

4277
03:33:25,308 --> 03:33:27,700
because He's explaining those 
meetings. 

4278
03:33:27,700 --> 03:33:31,300
I was in that meeting. 
I had that meeting, you know, I 

4279
03:33:31,300 --> 03:33:33,800
watched the handshake because 
they knew that they were doing 

4280
03:33:33,800 --> 03:33:38,400
the wrong thing. 
I All that and all of it's like,

4281
03:33:38,400 --> 03:33:40,000
reliving all of it again, so 
it's really intense. 

4282
03:33:40,000 --> 03:33:41,900
Gary's been going through that 
right now too. 

4283
03:33:41,900 --> 03:33:44,400
So I know Gary was in our 
chatter early or, you know, but 

4284
03:33:44,400 --> 03:33:48,900
it's like I shook those hands, 
you know what they were cold. 

4285
03:33:49,900 --> 03:33:52,100
They were cold because they were
in fight or flight because they 

4286
03:33:52,100 --> 03:33:55,400
were they were petrified of a 
person that stood and said I'm 

4287
03:33:55,400 --> 03:33:57,400
not scared of doing the right 
thing even though the 

4288
03:33:57,400 --> 03:34:00,500
consequences are going to suck. 
And he said it right there he's 

4289
03:34:00,500 --> 03:34:03,000
like, yeah, this is really 
sucking the people that are 

4290
03:34:03,000 --> 03:34:05,100
involved in it, they were Party 
City evil. 

4291
03:34:06,000 --> 03:34:11,000
He did the wrong thing. 
There's a lot of them. you know,

4292
03:34:11,008 --> 03:34:23,800
we it's hard to to know you. 
And what you went through. and, 

4293
03:34:27,800 --> 03:34:31,500
And and and not be emotional for
you, and then to hear Zach and 

4294
03:34:31,500 --> 03:34:34,700
hear Steve. 
And then to meet your family 

4295
03:34:34,700 --> 03:34:36,700
like me your wife, meet your 
kids. 

4296
03:34:37,500 --> 03:34:43,200
And, and not just be. 
Angry for you like to to feel. 

4297
03:34:46,600 --> 03:34:51,300
You know. 
If you trace it back and this is

4298
03:34:51,300 --> 03:34:53,500
nothing to do with me, but you 
trace it back to decisions that 

4299
03:34:53,500 --> 03:34:56,000
I made. 
I didn't make those decisions 

4300
03:34:56,000 --> 03:34:58,800
that I wanted to. 
I made him because I had to and 

4301
03:34:58,800 --> 03:35:02,600
you just Choice. 
It's not it's not a decision 

4302
03:35:02,600 --> 03:35:05,100
it's like could I have done 
things a little bit more 

4303
03:35:05,100 --> 03:35:07,900
aggressively early or none of 
those were could I have done a 

4304
03:35:07,900 --> 03:35:09,200
different path? 
Could I walked away from this? 

4305
03:35:09,200 --> 03:35:11,800
Could I have asked for this cup?
Not to be handed. 

4306
03:35:13,100 --> 03:35:14,200
Nobody. 
Nobody feels that way. 

4307
03:35:14,200 --> 03:35:16,500
When they've done it. 
So it, I'm sorry. 

4308
03:35:16,500 --> 03:35:22,000
I mean it I want the FBI to be 
exactly who's Zach is, I want 

4309
03:35:22,000 --> 03:35:23,500
the FBI, did exactly who you 
are. 

4310
03:35:23,500 --> 03:35:26,800
I want to have got. 
And we thought this before I was

4311
03:35:26,808 --> 03:35:31,400
like Garrett, he's He's on a 
rip, he's angry. 

4312
03:35:31,400 --> 03:35:34,700
You're like yeah, we're all 
angry and I but, you know, 

4313
03:35:34,708 --> 03:35:37,000
there's this place that you go 
to and you've been there. 

4314
03:35:37,000 --> 03:35:40,300
Like, I've been like Kyle. 
Can you like just bring it down 

4315
03:35:40,308 --> 03:35:44,100
just a little bit like no. 
And I'm like, I'll buy a teddy 

4316
03:35:44,100 --> 03:35:46,000
bear by. 
Yeah, I can't even, I have a 

4317
03:35:46,000 --> 03:35:47,500
teddy bear, I've got four kids. 
I hug them. 

4318
03:35:47,500 --> 03:35:48,500
That's what keeps me going on 
that. 

4319
03:35:48,500 --> 03:35:52,500
That's what, that's, what keeps 
my sanity, but I'm pissed for 

4320
03:35:52,508 --> 03:35:54,200
your story. 
I'm pissed for what you went 

4321
03:35:54,200 --> 03:35:57,100
through, because I saw it, I've 
seen it happen to people that I 

4322
03:35:57,108 --> 03:36:00,700
think are better people than me.
And and I know exactly how 

4323
03:36:00,700 --> 03:36:04,800
unjust it is and the worst is 
reading it that somebody else 

4324
03:36:04,800 --> 03:36:06,700
that has looked you in the eye 
before but didn't have the balls

4325
03:36:06,700 --> 03:36:10,000
to say it's your face will pan 
out something that is blatantly 

4326
03:36:10,000 --> 03:36:12,900
false. 
They know it's false and they're

4327
03:36:12,900 --> 03:36:15,400
doing it because it's just gets 
them because you're the problem 

4328
03:36:15,400 --> 03:36:17,900
because you stood up and said, 
hey I just don't think we're 

4329
03:36:17,900 --> 03:36:20,500
doing the right thing here. 
Like didn't it wasn't supposed 

4330
03:36:20,500 --> 03:36:22,800
to mean something, you know, 
wasn't there supposed to be a 

4331
03:36:22,808 --> 03:36:25,100
principal? 
Wasn't it about doing the right 

4332
03:36:25,100 --> 03:36:26,700
thing? 
Didn't we hear Chris Reagan? 

4333
03:36:26,700 --> 03:36:29,500
Get up in front of every person 
in the FBI over and over and 

4334
03:36:29,500 --> 03:36:31,700
over again. 
And say, we do the right thing 

4335
03:36:31,700 --> 03:36:33,500
for the right reason, in the 
right way. 

4336
03:36:33,500 --> 03:36:36,900
And I said, no, you didn't. 
And then they're like, like 

4337
03:36:36,900 --> 03:36:40,800
well, You can't say that these 
are just platitudes you're 

4338
03:36:40,800 --> 03:36:44,600
supposed to listen to so for all
that Zach I got this one for 

4339
03:36:44,600 --> 03:36:47,800
you. 
We wear it Eagle down, maybe 

4340
03:36:47,800 --> 03:36:49,000
we'll turn it right side up at 
some point. 

4341
03:36:49,008 --> 03:36:50,900
I got a second one for you, too.
For when you want to leave it on

4342
03:36:50,908 --> 03:36:53,700
something for permanent, but 
these are black pins, we have 

4343
03:36:53,708 --> 03:36:55,300
the white ones people buy them 
on the website. 

4344
03:36:55,300 --> 03:36:57,300
That's what Garrett and I 
created, but the black ones are 

4345
03:36:57,300 --> 03:36:59,600
the ones are the people that 
have actually, like, they've 

4346
03:36:59,600 --> 03:37:02,200
walked it. 
And some people have and they 

4347
03:37:02,208 --> 03:37:04,300
know what it is. 
And you know, you don't even 

4348
03:37:04,308 --> 03:37:06,000
have to wear publicly just 
keeping your pocket. 

4349
03:37:06,000 --> 03:37:08,100
It's like a coin in some ways 
but I appreciate it. 

4350
03:37:08,100 --> 03:37:09,400
The people who know what it 
looks like. 

4351
03:37:09,400 --> 03:37:14,100
It's like, You've seen it. 
You had a choice to turn around.

4352
03:37:14,100 --> 03:37:16,000
So what even told you as a 
mentor? 

4353
03:37:16,000 --> 03:37:17,900
Which I didn't know that but it 
makes perfect sense. 

4354
03:37:17,900 --> 03:37:20,400
They walk away from this. 
Find a safe landing. 

4355
03:37:20,400 --> 03:37:25,900
You're like No, I'm gonna put my
foot to the gas. because, You 

4356
03:37:25,900 --> 03:37:27,600
know, you should have for one of
my Quantico classmates which is 

4357
03:37:27,600 --> 03:37:29,500
important. 
You just did the thing that the 

4358
03:37:29,500 --> 03:37:32,300
leaders are supposed to do in an
organization that is full of 

4359
03:37:32,308 --> 03:37:35,100
managers. 
And defends them, like it is, 

4360
03:37:35,108 --> 03:37:38,300
the reason I keep thinking this,
and maybe I'm reading too much 

4361
03:37:38,308 --> 03:37:40,300
into it. 
But I think that the reason that

4362
03:37:40,300 --> 03:37:45,800
guy like you cannot go further 
is because you expose that 

4363
03:37:45,800 --> 03:37:49,700
operational morality of going 
along to get along. 

4364
03:37:50,500 --> 03:37:52,700
And if you go up there and you 
go head to head with them, then 

4365
03:37:52,700 --> 03:37:54,700
they have to face it themselves.
Like, how many of these things 

4366
03:37:54,700 --> 03:37:55,200
have? 
I done? 

4367
03:37:55,208 --> 03:37:57,200
Where I knew I was doing the 
wrong thing, I looked the other 

4368
03:37:57,200 --> 03:37:59,200
way, because that's the culture 
that's what's been encouraged. 

4369
03:37:59,200 --> 03:38:01,000
And if you're a person that's 
going to go against the grain 

4370
03:38:01,000 --> 03:38:05,000
eventually, You're going to, 
you're going to push them to a 

4371
03:38:05,000 --> 03:38:07,500
decision for their chips and 
they've got to get rid of you 

4372
03:38:07,500 --> 03:38:09,300
because you're the problem. 
As you said, you will go up 

4373
03:38:09,300 --> 03:38:10,900
Against the Machine that has a 
certain ethos. 

4374
03:38:10,900 --> 03:38:13,000
And the ethos is don't embarrass
us. 

4375
03:38:13,000 --> 03:38:15,700
Shut your mouth do something 
that's wrong. 

4376
03:38:15,700 --> 03:38:19,400
Do something illegal or moral. 
Perjure yourself suborn perjury,

4377
03:38:19,400 --> 03:38:22,900
whatever it may be because God 
forbid, we have to actually do 

4378
03:38:22,900 --> 03:38:24,400
the thing that we all swear the 
oath to do. 

4379
03:38:24,408 --> 03:38:26,800
If you do that. 
It should actually be really 

4380
03:38:26,808 --> 03:38:28,400
easy. 
It's just like hey we disagree 

4381
03:38:28,400 --> 03:38:29,700
with you on this one. 
We think somebody should sign 

4382
03:38:29,700 --> 03:38:31,100
search warrant. 
No problem. 

4383
03:38:31,100 --> 03:38:33,900
Thanks for having principles. 
You have a great place in this 

4384
03:38:33,908 --> 03:38:35,500
organization. 
That's not the organization that

4385
03:38:35,500 --> 03:38:37,900
it is today. 
I also think I inadvertently 

4386
03:38:39,700 --> 03:38:44,800
forced to be wrote a fire me. 
because, I never lost the 

4387
03:38:44,800 --> 03:38:46,700
support of my peers in spite of 
the machine doing what the 

4388
03:38:46,708 --> 03:38:49,400
machine does of protecting 
itself and trying to control the

4389
03:38:49,400 --> 03:38:51,700
narrative. 
I am still the one that is not 

4390
03:38:51,700 --> 03:38:54,500
spoken of in Salt Lake division,
consistency and character. 

4391
03:38:57,900 --> 03:39:02,600
They machine, I believe this is,
this is not fact, but this is 

4392
03:39:02,600 --> 03:39:06,000
fact-based personal opinion. 
I believe that I needed to be 

4393
03:39:06,000 --> 03:39:08,500
fired as a symbol everybody 
else. 

4394
03:39:08,500 --> 03:39:11,200
So, what happens if you stand up
to them machine, 100%. 

4395
03:39:11,200 --> 03:39:15,800
Um, I could not because I was 
very public in the right way of 

4396
03:39:16,500 --> 03:39:18,600
You know, Agents Association was
pushing me. 

4397
03:39:19,600 --> 03:39:21,900
I was not quiet when I went 
around the bureau. 

4398
03:39:22,500 --> 03:39:26,100
I was well known and you had 
lots of people that were 

4399
03:39:26,100 --> 03:39:28,400
bringing this to leadership at 
different points. 

4400
03:39:28,400 --> 03:39:31,800
Yep. 
I was elected was comical. 

4401
03:39:31,800 --> 03:39:35,200
I was elected as their agency, 
that final hilarious. 

4402
03:39:35,200 --> 03:39:36,400
Yeah. 
Which again, you know, if 

4403
03:39:36,400 --> 03:39:40,000
there's things that are humbling
throughout all this those 

4404
03:39:40,000 --> 03:39:45,800
letters and people riding about 
you of Their Own, Desire to 

4405
03:39:45,800 --> 03:39:48,200
help. 
Humbling. 

4406
03:39:48,200 --> 03:39:51,600
Some of the things that they 
said, you know, being voted upon

4407
03:39:51,600 --> 03:39:54,000
first because I mean satellite 
Rah. 

4408
03:39:54,000 --> 03:39:56,000
Let me just in Salt Lake 
division because we're so 

4409
03:39:56,000 --> 03:39:57,400
scared. 
Don't even know me now, but 

4410
03:39:57,400 --> 03:40:00,000
reputation went out for other 
areas and I've heard it from 

4411
03:40:00,000 --> 03:40:03,200
those two and that's the key. 
It's like people recognize that 

4412
03:40:03,200 --> 03:40:04,400
there was something unjust 
happening. 

4413
03:40:04,400 --> 03:40:08,300
Yeah. 
And, you know, Bureau couldn't 

4414
03:40:08,300 --> 03:40:10,700
cover all, they got two big for 
them to deal well. 

4415
03:40:10,700 --> 03:40:13,100
So you stood up for your guys, 
too. 

4416
03:40:13,100 --> 03:40:14,900
I mean, you literally supported 
him to the end. 

4417
03:40:15,700 --> 03:40:18,100
There was sure. 
And I mean, I've been thanked 

4418
03:40:18,100 --> 03:40:21,300
by, you know, Congressional 
staffers and a congressman and 

4419
03:40:21,300 --> 03:40:24,300
stuff about that. 
And I struggle with that because

4420
03:40:24,300 --> 03:40:28,800
it's just like Yeah, that's what
you're supposed to do just with 

4421
03:40:28,800 --> 03:40:31,000
the job. 
That's exactly what the job is 

4422
03:40:31,000 --> 03:40:35,400
like you, you know, you support 
your people and I think that's 

4423
03:40:35,400 --> 03:40:37,500
where culture wise, the bureau 
really fails. 

4424
03:40:37,500 --> 03:40:40,200
The culture is you don't 
embarrass the bureau, is this 

4425
03:40:40,200 --> 03:40:43,100
the bureaus, a thing, The bureau
is not a thing. 

4426
03:40:43,108 --> 03:40:44,300
The bureau is a collection of 
people. 

4427
03:40:45,500 --> 03:40:48,900
The work that the bureau does is
done by the GS 10 to 13. 

4428
03:40:48,900 --> 03:40:53,100
Most of them are special agents.
At the bottom of the totem pole.

4429
03:40:53,700 --> 03:40:55,200
Those are the best jobs in the 
bureau. 

4430
03:40:55,200 --> 03:40:59,900
That's where the work gets done.
That is the FBI and I believe 

4431
03:40:59,900 --> 03:41:03,200
that the FBI can be in, is to 
some degree exceptional. 

4432
03:41:03,200 --> 03:41:07,000
Because I think many of those 
people are exceptional, but I 

4433
03:41:07,008 --> 03:41:08,800
also believe that they would be 
doing exceptional work. 

4434
03:41:08,800 --> 03:41:11,400
If they were DEA agents ATF 
agents or Bankers. 

4435
03:41:11,400 --> 03:41:13,900
Correct. 
There are exceptional human 

4436
03:41:13,900 --> 03:41:15,700
beings, and in the right 
position, they can do 

4437
03:41:15,700 --> 03:41:18,200
exceptional things in this 
concept of what you don't 

4438
03:41:18,200 --> 03:41:20,400
embarrass the bureau. 
As if it's the bureau, as like 

4439
03:41:20,400 --> 03:41:23,700
an organization of bureaucracy, 
this is the thing is just very 

4440
03:41:23,700 --> 03:41:26,900
misplaced its in dangerous. 
It's when the mission. 

4441
03:41:28,100 --> 03:41:32,300
It leaves the institution, the 
institution exists for the sake 

4442
03:41:32,300 --> 03:41:35,300
of the mission, but if the if 
the mission is just serving the 

4443
03:41:35,300 --> 03:41:39,800
institution and it has, this is 
what Rob Green calls institution

4444
03:41:39,800 --> 03:41:41,100
over Constitution. 
Yes. 

4445
03:41:41,100 --> 03:41:43,700
And once that happens once you 
are serving an entity, that 

4446
03:41:43,700 --> 03:41:46,600
itself licking, its an ice cream
cone. 

4447
03:41:46,600 --> 03:41:48,800
It's it's this, it's all the 
worst things of Washington. 

4448
03:41:48,800 --> 03:41:51,400
Except now it's a nationwide 
thing with a badge and a gun. 

4449
03:41:51,400 --> 03:41:53,600
Sure. 
It can be fixed. 

4450
03:41:53,600 --> 03:41:56,900
I actually I've moderated on my 
burn it all down thing because 

4451
03:41:56,900 --> 03:41:59,900
have you, I really look at the 
end of the day. 

4452
03:41:59,908 --> 03:42:02,700
It's going to exist. 
That's I'm pragmatic in the way.

4453
03:42:02,700 --> 03:42:04,600
I always knew that they were 
never going to do this or like 

4454
03:42:04,600 --> 03:42:07,000
nobody has the balls to do that 
sort of thing and there has to 

4455
03:42:07,000 --> 03:42:10,100
be some entity that would do it.
I have other ideas on how you 

4456
03:42:10,100 --> 03:42:12,100
could do it because you 
mentioned it earlier, some of 

4457
03:42:12,100 --> 03:42:14,400
the best long forcement 
officers, you found were 

4458
03:42:14,400 --> 03:42:16,600
probably Task Force officers 
that were federally deputized 

4459
03:42:16,600 --> 03:42:19,400
and had Title, 18 and 21 
authorities because they've had 

4460
03:42:19,400 --> 03:42:21,400
the experience of doing car 
stops. 

4461
03:42:21,400 --> 03:42:23,100
And they've worked probable, 
cause, and they know what's 

4462
03:42:23,100 --> 03:42:24,200
right and wrong. 
And they've worked it on the 

4463
03:42:24,200 --> 03:42:25,600
street. 
And if you gave them, you know, 

4464
03:42:25,600 --> 03:42:28,000
exaggerated authorities and 
allowed them to go to an ausa. 

4465
03:42:28,100 --> 03:42:29,500
They would still do awesome 
work. 

4466
03:42:30,200 --> 03:42:32,400
Should you have Specialists and 
subject matter experts probably?

4467
03:42:32,400 --> 03:42:34,200
Yeah. 
Should you have people that have

4468
03:42:34,200 --> 03:42:37,500
a lot of time doing this? 
That have long complex 

4469
03:42:37,500 --> 03:42:40,400
investigation that nobody has 
the stomach to do white collar, 

4470
03:42:40,400 --> 03:42:43,100
like, who's gonna do white 
collar crimes other than the 

4471
03:42:43,100 --> 03:42:45,800
FBI? 
But at the end of the day, it's 

4472
03:42:45,800 --> 03:42:48,500
not going anywhere. 
So it needs to be dramatically 

4473
03:42:48,500 --> 03:42:50,400
removed from whatever this 
toxic. 

4474
03:42:50,400 --> 03:42:53,400
Like metastasized thing is and I
agree with you. 

4475
03:42:53,408 --> 03:42:56,800
It's a full generation away 
which means it's everyone wants 

4476
03:42:56,800 --> 03:42:58,900
it to be like fixed, like you're
gonna get in there Shuffle, like

4477
03:42:58,900 --> 03:43:00,700
a deck of cards and you're gonna
get them all lined up and it's 

4478
03:43:00,700 --> 03:43:04,000
not, it's not gonna happen. 
You've got to fix the 

4479
03:43:04,000 --> 03:43:06,200
institutional, cultural problem 
you do. 

4480
03:43:06,200 --> 03:43:09,100
I am hopeful for a Louis freeh 
effect where, you know, 

4481
03:43:09,100 --> 03:43:12,800
headquarters really gets flushed
out and that it the bureau 

4482
03:43:12,800 --> 03:43:15,500
becomes less headquarters driven
again. 

4483
03:43:15,500 --> 03:43:19,200
I think I, you know, the Foster 
been integrated program 

4484
03:43:19,200 --> 03:43:23,200
management is is just awful on 
its effect on the bureau and I 

4485
03:43:23,200 --> 03:43:28,500
think the last I don't know, 
four or five six years is just 

4486
03:43:28,500 --> 03:43:31,200
this culture of fear has become 
ingrained in the bureau my 

4487
03:43:31,200 --> 03:43:34,600
personal opinion fact-based, 
observation, based on all the 

4488
03:43:34,600 --> 03:43:37,200
conversations have but I think 
it's real and again, but it's my

4489
03:43:37,200 --> 03:43:39,300
opinion, I'm going to sell it's 
just that I can only represent 

4490
03:43:39,300 --> 03:43:43,100
myself. 
I believe that there is a large 

4491
03:43:43,100 --> 03:43:48,300
number of FBI, special agents, 
and support staff, who are 

4492
03:43:48,300 --> 03:43:49,900
fearful of their own 
organization. 

4493
03:43:49,900 --> 03:43:55,400
I always looked down upon to 
some degree special agents that 

4494
03:43:55,400 --> 03:44:00,800
found non investigative 
positions cart Tek agents, you 

4495
03:44:00,800 --> 03:44:04,400
know, the the confidential human
file room coordinators 

4496
03:44:04,400 --> 03:44:07,900
recruiters because it was a 
distraction from our core 

4497
03:44:07,900 --> 03:44:11,500
Mission core Mission, the FBI is
to investigate federal crimes 

4498
03:44:14,500 --> 03:44:18,200
All those other stuff is 
peripheral to that, but now I 

4499
03:44:18,200 --> 03:44:20,100
have conversations with my 
friends that are still in. 

4500
03:44:20,100 --> 03:44:23,700
Those are the safest jobs that 
yeah, you have to get away. 

4501
03:44:23,700 --> 03:44:27,500
Because again, my personal 
opinion is, there is a large 

4502
03:44:27,500 --> 03:44:30,200
number of FBI agents that are 
trying to just hide from the 

4503
03:44:30,208 --> 03:44:32,100
bureau. 
And I think they're all very 

4504
03:44:32,100 --> 03:44:33,900
nervous. 
Many of them are nervous, but 

4505
03:44:33,900 --> 03:44:36,500
cash potel. 
Because in law enforcement, the 

4506
03:44:36,500 --> 03:44:39,700
only thing you hate worse than 
the status quo has changed, so 

4507
03:44:39,700 --> 03:44:42,100
there's no changes coming. 
They're scared for that change. 

4508
03:44:42,100 --> 03:44:43,400
Like what? 
That gonna mean for them 

4509
03:44:43,400 --> 03:44:45,500
individually? 
I don't think anybody scared for

4510
03:44:45,500 --> 03:44:47,900
the bureau. 
I think folks are scared for. 

4511
03:44:47,900 --> 03:44:49,400
What's the ramification for 
their job? 

4512
03:44:49,400 --> 03:44:52,100
Going to be natural to their 
paychecks, their way of life and

4513
03:44:52,100 --> 03:44:56,600
in the bureau I now say 
unfortunately we allow that or 

4514
03:44:56,600 --> 03:45:00,700
culture Promotes that it's such 
a large Port of your portion of 

4515
03:45:00,700 --> 03:45:03,400
your identity. 
So like it's back to like some 

4516
03:45:03,400 --> 03:45:07,600
of the most soul-crushing things
of what the bureau did to me was

4517
03:45:07,600 --> 03:45:11,900
take that identity and turn it 
on me and Rob it from me, that's

4518
03:45:11,900 --> 03:45:14,100
really hard. 
When you've been living in a 

4519
03:45:14,100 --> 03:45:17,800
culture where you're an FBI 
agent, son, like that's who you 

4520
03:45:17,800 --> 03:45:20,900
are. 
Like you represent that every 

4521
03:45:20,900 --> 03:45:22,800
waking hour of the day. 
Matter of fact, you represent 

4522
03:45:22,800 --> 03:45:24,800
that when you're sleeping 
because you're, you're Glock 

4523
03:45:24,800 --> 03:45:27,800
better be nearby if you need to 
go into actually expected to do 

4524
03:45:27,808 --> 03:45:32,000
it. 
So I just say that of I think 

4525
03:45:32,008 --> 03:45:35,000
there's I have a lot. 
This gets to me answering your 

4526
03:45:35,000 --> 03:45:36,700
question of like what I come 
back to the bureau. 

4527
03:45:37,600 --> 03:45:40,200
I believe that there are a lot 
of very good Americans that work

4528
03:45:40,200 --> 03:45:42,300
in the FBI. 
I think the majority of them 

4529
03:45:42,300 --> 03:45:44,900
are, I think the majority of 
them wanted to do really good 

4530
03:45:44,900 --> 03:45:48,200
work and I think many of them 
are scared of the bureau that 

4531
03:45:48,200 --> 03:45:51,800
they're in today and I think 
that they will be overjoyed. 

4532
03:45:51,800 --> 03:45:58,600
If a cash potel can come in and 
could start to Remove some 

4533
03:45:58,600 --> 03:46:02,800
policy and start to remove some 
headquarters mandated XYZ that 

4534
03:46:02,800 --> 03:46:04,800
they're driving everything and 
just allow. 

4535
03:46:06,000 --> 03:46:08,300
Specially to be special agents 
investigate crimes. 

4536
03:46:08,300 --> 03:46:10,600
Put cases together and promote 
them for prosecution with the 

4537
03:46:10,600 --> 03:46:12,200
insurance office and hopefully 
Pam Bondi. 

4538
03:46:12,200 --> 03:46:15,400
It's enough pressure on the US 
attorneys, that they prosecute 

4539
03:46:15,400 --> 03:46:18,400
cases. 
Um, so getting back to, I'm 

4540
03:46:18,400 --> 03:46:21,400
going to answer your question. 
It's it's nuanced and it's 

4541
03:46:21,400 --> 03:46:25,200
complicated just because of my 
life and what is important to 

4542
03:46:25,200 --> 03:46:28,200
me? 
So this happened, I can't change

4543
03:46:28,200 --> 03:46:29,400
that. 
I can't change what happened 

4544
03:46:29,400 --> 03:46:33,200
over the last couple years. 
I can't, you know, change the 

4545
03:46:33,200 --> 03:46:35,800
fact of my dad passed away. 
I've got this family business 

4546
03:46:35,800 --> 03:46:39,700
that I got to figure out either.
I can make it work or I can't 

4547
03:46:39,700 --> 03:46:41,300
but there's a lot of things that
are not ideal. 

4548
03:46:42,400 --> 03:46:45,700
It's in my hometown. 
That's six seven-hour drive from

4549
03:46:45,700 --> 03:46:48,500
me in Quarter Lane. 
I made a promise to my wife. 

4550
03:46:48,500 --> 03:46:50,800
I moved to Quarter Lane that, I 
wouldn't move her again if she 

4551
03:46:50,808 --> 03:46:53,200
didn't want because she's a 
professional, she's a journey. 

4552
03:46:53,200 --> 03:46:54,400
She can get her career 
established. 

4553
03:46:55,200 --> 03:46:58,000
We moved her parents from 
Georgia, with the promise of 

4554
03:46:58,000 --> 03:47:02,100
will have an integrated family, 
and my kids have the benefit of 

4555
03:47:02,100 --> 03:47:04,400
seeing their grandparents on 
almost a daily basis. 

4556
03:47:04,400 --> 03:47:07,700
And I think many kids would 
benefit from that, and I want my

4557
03:47:07,700 --> 03:47:09,900
kids benefit from that. 
It's huge for me. 

4558
03:47:09,900 --> 03:47:13,500
They won't really appreciate it 
until they're adults know, but 

4559
03:47:13,500 --> 03:47:16,100
that's an investment in them. 
I'm not willing to walk away 

4560
03:47:16,100 --> 03:47:19,300
from that. 
I'm not willing to walk away 

4561
03:47:19,300 --> 03:47:23,300
from my family's Legacy from C 
sharp Farms business standpoint.

4562
03:47:24,400 --> 03:47:26,800
What I'm also not willing to 
walk away from all the friends I

4563
03:47:26,800 --> 03:47:29,700
still have in the bureau. 
I don't want to be fired. 

4564
03:47:31,400 --> 03:47:35,100
I don't like the fact that I 
took 180000 year pay cut. 

4565
03:47:35,900 --> 03:47:38,000
I don't like the fact that I now
have. 

4566
03:47:38,000 --> 03:47:41,200
Well I'm thankful that I have VA
health insurance that I have it 

4567
03:47:41,200 --> 03:47:43,700
but you know I don't like the 
fact that I was taking my health

4568
03:47:43,700 --> 03:47:46,500
insurance and I certainly don't 
like selfishly that I've lost 

4569
03:47:46,500 --> 03:47:49,800
the ability to retire at 50 with
a comfortable pension and I can,

4570
03:47:49,800 --> 03:47:52,600
you know, make quality of life 
decisions from there, I don't 

4571
03:47:52,600 --> 03:47:55,100
like it. 
What? 

4572
03:47:56,300 --> 03:47:59,500
I'm only willing to go so far 
just to satisfy my own financial

4573
03:47:59,500 --> 03:48:01,500
needs. 
I would be willing to go farther

4574
03:48:01,500 --> 03:48:07,200
if it was I felt and believed 
that I could do something that 

4575
03:48:07,200 --> 03:48:09,500
was really beneficial to my 
friends that I think. 

4576
03:48:10,400 --> 03:48:14,100
Are the FBI. 
Because again my view, the FBI 

4577
03:48:14,100 --> 03:48:16,500
is the individuals to do the 
work. 

4578
03:48:18,000 --> 03:48:20,400
What that looks like? 
I don't know whether or not. 

4579
03:48:20,408 --> 03:48:24,000
I would be willing to. 
I will string myself out pretty 

4580
03:48:24,000 --> 03:48:25,800
hard and try to meet a lot of 
needs. 

4581
03:48:25,800 --> 03:48:28,200
My family work etc. 
My employees. 

4582
03:48:31,000 --> 03:48:34,500
But I'm also cognizant this is 
been an interesting Journey For 

4583
03:48:34,500 --> 03:48:39,900
Me of been very stressful. 
That young kids try to isolate 

4584
03:48:39,900 --> 03:48:41,500
them from that try to be very 
present. 

4585
03:48:41,500 --> 03:48:46,500
There's times that have cried 
and it's Trying to be present 

4586
03:48:46,500 --> 03:48:48,800
for them and it's also the same 
time, like, I'm willing to 

4587
03:48:48,800 --> 03:48:52,700
sacrifice myself and my own 
sleep, I realize that I have I 

4588
03:48:52,700 --> 03:48:54,900
have limits to what I can 
accomplish. 

4589
03:48:54,900 --> 03:48:57,100
That's right. 
So, whatever it is. 

4590
03:48:57,108 --> 03:49:00,100
That comes my hope. 
Honestly, at this point, is for 

4591
03:49:00,100 --> 03:49:02,700
a conversation with people that 
are in a position to like make 

4592
03:49:02,700 --> 03:49:06,400
real decisions so that if if 
they're asking something of me 

4593
03:49:06,400 --> 03:49:09,300
it can be well this is what I 
think I would be able to do and 

4594
03:49:09,300 --> 03:49:11,500
what I would need from you to be
able to make it work for my 

4595
03:49:11,500 --> 03:49:13,400
family. 
But I also recognize that there 

4596
03:49:13,400 --> 03:49:18,000
are 38,000 employees in the FBI 
and I'm just one of the former 

4597
03:49:18,000 --> 03:49:21,600
ones and I might not Merit that 
and I got to be okay with that 

4598
03:49:21,600 --> 03:49:25,000
because it might not come and I 
will just make decisions that 

4599
03:49:25,000 --> 03:49:30,200
are the best for my family and 
within the balance of what I'm 

4600
03:49:30,200 --> 03:49:35,300
reasonably willing to do the 
power of a dollar and of that 

4601
03:49:35,308 --> 03:49:40,100
quote unquote, secure paycheck, 
It's been put into perspective 

4602
03:49:40,100 --> 03:49:42,400
and balance throughout all this 
of what it doesn't mean. 

4603
03:49:42,400 --> 03:49:44,700
But I also see that coming from 
the comfort of I've got a 

4604
03:49:44,700 --> 03:49:46,900
professional wife isn't a stay 
at home, mom. 

4605
03:49:46,900 --> 03:49:50,700
And I was able to We'd saved up 
a bunch of money because we need

4606
03:49:50,700 --> 03:49:53,500
things for coming. 
So like between savings and her 

4607
03:49:53,500 --> 03:49:56,200
income, like we're living. 
We're surviving without having 

4608
03:49:56,200 --> 03:49:59,300
to like sell our home and move. 
And I realize that some guys 

4609
03:49:59,300 --> 03:50:01,200
aren't been in that position. 
So I'm very fortunate. 

4610
03:50:03,800 --> 03:50:07,200
So it's a very long-winded 
response to your question of 

4611
03:50:07,200 --> 03:50:11,000
what I go back. 
The answer is I would but it 

4612
03:50:11,000 --> 03:50:13,400
would really have to be the 
right set of circumstances. 

4613
03:50:14,500 --> 03:50:18,000
Is even if it's cash potel at 
the top of that chain and he is 

4614
03:50:18,000 --> 03:50:19,200
true to his work. 
Because I don't know cache 

4615
03:50:19,200 --> 03:50:24,100
itself from from Adam. 
You're going back onto the boot.

4616
03:50:24,900 --> 03:50:27,700
So I'm agree. 
Yeah, you know and you know, you

4617
03:50:27,700 --> 03:50:30,600
know what, you don't know what 
you don't know, and you're gonna

4618
03:50:30,600 --> 03:50:36,300
have to play by the rules again.
you know, so and if you got back

4619
03:50:36,300 --> 03:50:38,800
in and the rules were the same 
Right. 

4620
03:50:38,800 --> 03:50:43,300
Just with the different skin on 
the outside. so, um, short 

4621
03:50:43,300 --> 03:50:46,900
answer is, I would but And 
there's a whole bunch of that, 

4622
03:50:46,900 --> 03:50:51,300
you know? 
But um, So, in the meantime, you

4623
03:50:51,300 --> 03:50:55,000
know, I'm fighting my fights and
I'm being a bit more vocal about

4624
03:50:55,000 --> 03:51:01,800
what happened. 
I hope at the end of this, if I 

4625
03:51:01,808 --> 03:51:04,700
do come back in the bureau or 
not, I hope I don't become the 

4626
03:51:04,700 --> 03:51:08,300
example that the bureau wanted 
me to be of what happens to a 

4627
03:51:08,300 --> 03:51:11,900
guy that stands up for what was 
right, and what the bureau can 

4628
03:51:11,900 --> 03:51:16,000
do to him. 
I hope I'm an example of what 

4629
03:51:16,000 --> 03:51:19,300
the new Bureau can be, and then 
if you really will understand 

4630
03:51:19,300 --> 03:51:24,100
your ground and do it right, 
that you'll survival this and 

4631
03:51:24,100 --> 03:51:26,700
and losing good job, shouldn't 
be the end of your yourself 

4632
03:51:26,700 --> 03:51:29,100
Worth or your dignity. 
And no don't become the person 

4633
03:51:29,100 --> 03:51:31,600
that they wrote in those stupid 
little flying files. 

4634
03:51:31,600 --> 03:51:34,500
That's the big key. 
So, you know, and the family 

4635
03:51:34,500 --> 03:51:37,700
business has been, let's talk 
about why you're at shots. 

4636
03:51:37,700 --> 03:51:44,500
That's the family business. 
So my father 50 years ago so 50 

4637
03:51:44,500 --> 03:51:47,500
year anniversary. 
So 1975 started a company called

4638
03:51:47,500 --> 03:51:52,400
C Sharps arm C period Sharps 
Arms Company We build. 

4639
03:51:53,500 --> 03:51:57,900
New Sharps rifles from late 1800
so they're all single shot, 

4640
03:51:57,900 --> 03:52:01,600
Hammer guns, metallic cartridge 
with modern Metal Gear. 

4641
03:52:01,600 --> 03:52:06,400
We we build those out of 8620, 
Billet, in-house, small team. 

4642
03:52:06,400 --> 03:52:09,300
Their Benchmade rifle, they're 
not cheap. 

4643
03:52:09,300 --> 03:52:12,700
But my margins are effectively 
zero because you know, labor 

4644
03:52:12,700 --> 03:52:14,700
cost of gone up. 
And I'm trying to I'm trying to 

4645
03:52:14,708 --> 03:52:17,500
make my guys living wage and 
Cheryl cost of gone up. 

4646
03:52:17,500 --> 03:52:21,400
I have a lot like an arrow that 
out for the whole world but like

4647
03:52:21,400 --> 03:52:23,700
they're a lot of challenges, 
like it's not just slide into 

4648
03:52:23,700 --> 03:52:26,100
that and like things are Breezy 
family business, like rock along

4649
03:52:26,100 --> 03:52:27,800
but it's never run. 
A small business knows that 

4650
03:52:27,800 --> 03:52:29,400
that's a bunch of smoke and 
mirrors. 

4651
03:52:30,100 --> 03:52:33,800
So not to mention the fact that 
like I travel over there a week 

4652
03:52:33,800 --> 03:52:37,100
or two a month. 
But so C Sharps Arms, I used to 

4653
03:52:37,108 --> 03:52:39,600
come to shot in an array. 
As a child, I mentioned this to 

4654
03:52:39,600 --> 03:52:41,000
you. 
The last shot show. 

4655
03:52:41,000 --> 03:52:46,000
I went to was, I think 1993, I 
was I was 13 years old. 

4656
03:52:46,000 --> 03:52:50,100
I had been it was like my fourth
year doing the show circuit. 

4657
03:52:50,100 --> 03:52:54,600
If I started at nine in the 
sixth grade, I'd have to sneak 

4658
03:52:54,600 --> 03:52:56,000
into shot because you still had 
to be 16. 

4659
03:52:56,000 --> 03:52:59,900
And yeah, it's the last time we 
did shot even then was getting 

4660
03:52:59,900 --> 03:53:01,700
really expensive that you just 
wasn't necessarily worth the 

4661
03:53:01,708 --> 03:53:04,800
squeeze for our small business. 
I still did the interraciales 

4662
03:53:04,800 --> 03:53:07,100
throughout high school and then 
my dad had stroke when I was in 

4663
03:53:07,108 --> 03:53:09,500
college. 
And I did the last minute fill 

4664
03:53:09,500 --> 03:53:11,500
in there. 
I think it's for the Reno show 

4665
03:53:11,500 --> 03:53:15,400
actually. 
So, I'm at shot. 

4666
03:53:15,400 --> 03:53:21,100
Like I just came here as a non 
exhibiting manufacturer. 

4667
03:53:21,800 --> 03:53:24,800
To try to, you know, make 
relationships, the American 

4668
03:53:24,800 --> 03:53:26,600
shooting Journal, just did me a 
very good solid. 

4669
03:53:26,600 --> 03:53:27,800
I was on there. 
I was in. 

4670
03:53:27,800 --> 03:53:30,300
And unfortunately, on their 
December cover for their 

4671
03:53:30,300 --> 03:53:32,400
December issue about as tall as 
the bar in your standing in 

4672
03:53:32,400 --> 03:53:37,100
front. 
I had an indicator Barn. um, So,

4673
03:53:37,100 --> 03:53:39,700
you know, I'm making friends. 
I'm getting back into a 

4674
03:53:39,700 --> 03:53:42,500
community that I've been away 
from for almost 30 years because

4675
03:53:42,500 --> 03:53:44,800
I mean, I really left it at 18 
and went on. 

4676
03:53:44,800 --> 03:53:48,400
Unfortunately, you know, with my
with C Sharps Arms, like my dad 

4677
03:53:48,400 --> 03:53:50,500
had a partnership that fell 
apart, he lost it. 

4678
03:53:50,500 --> 03:53:54,000
All I just refused to give up 
and he built it back from 

4679
03:53:54,000 --> 03:53:57,500
effectively, nothing lost the 
building to the bank, the 

4680
03:53:57,500 --> 03:53:59,900
building were still and 
eventually bought it back built 

4681
03:53:59,900 --> 03:54:01,600
a, you know. 
He originally just had a custom 

4682
03:54:01,600 --> 03:54:03,300
shop. 
He partnered with a manufacturer

4683
03:54:03,300 --> 03:54:05,300
and we were distributed for that
manufacturer. 

4684
03:54:05,300 --> 03:54:10,200
When that partnership failed, 
that was effective with nothing 

4685
03:54:10,200 --> 03:54:13,200
to sell and he built his small, 
Custom Shop into the 

4686
03:54:13,200 --> 03:54:16,500
manufacturing shop that it is 
today for again, Sharps rifles. 

4687
03:54:16,500 --> 03:54:19,700
And we also make the Winchester 
John Browning designed 1885 

4688
03:54:19,700 --> 03:54:27,900
Lowell. 
So I've got, I saw my phone, I 

4689
03:54:27,900 --> 03:54:30,000
was getting messages as a guy. 
A customer of ours is trying to 

4690
03:54:30,008 --> 03:54:34,700
set a world record, longest 
distance shot with an iron sight

4691
03:54:34,700 --> 03:54:37,900
with a gun that I built for him 
in 30. 30 of all calibers, he's 

4692
03:54:37,900 --> 03:54:42,400
got to shoot Beyond 2,260 yards.
He is so tickled pink with how 

4693
03:54:42,400 --> 03:54:44,400
accurate this gun is. 
He wants to get his close to 

4694
03:54:44,400 --> 03:54:46,600
3,000 yards as he can keep the 
bullet stable. 

4695
03:54:47,400 --> 03:54:50,800
He talked about last weekend, he
went to, he's a long range 

4696
03:54:50,800 --> 03:54:53,300
shooter that, you know, he went 
to one of his local matches and 

4697
03:54:53,300 --> 03:54:56,700
they're all, you know, high 
power suppress, you know XYZ, 

4698
03:54:56,700 --> 03:55:00,500
they're all laughing and 
giggling, as he's pulling this, 

4699
03:55:00,500 --> 03:55:03,500
you know, Woodstock case, 
hardened steel receiver. 

4700
03:55:03,500 --> 03:55:08,800
No suppressor, no scope gun out 
of his gun case and it's a 

4701
03:55:08,800 --> 03:55:14,700
unknown distance steel Target 
shoot 500 to 1200 yards. 

4702
03:55:14,700 --> 03:55:19,600
He's got his loaded up for it. 
He's got it all tuned in with 

4703
03:55:19,600 --> 03:55:21,500
his computer. 
He lays the target. 

4704
03:55:21,500 --> 03:55:24,200
He would dial up his sight with 
the computer. 

4705
03:55:24,200 --> 03:55:28,300
Said it was supposed to be First
shot at every time and that's 

4706
03:55:28,300 --> 03:55:30,500
what fire inside. 
So 30 30. 

4707
03:55:30,500 --> 03:55:33,800
Yeah, I mean Grant, he's pushing
almost 308, ballistics out of 

4708
03:55:33,808 --> 03:55:41,100
that 33 but so I have to, you 
know, through all that, you 

4709
03:55:41,100 --> 03:55:43,700
know, 67 hours away from it. 
And I'm not willing to just pick

4710
03:55:43,700 --> 03:55:47,300
up my family and, and move on. 
I've got to take that into 

4711
03:55:47,300 --> 03:55:49,400
consideration with whatever my 
next chapter is, or isn't with 

4712
03:55:49,400 --> 03:55:51,900
the bureau. 
I'm here for shot again, just 

4713
03:55:51,900 --> 03:55:54,800
build those relationships. 
Try to build up a customer base 

4714
03:55:54,800 --> 03:55:58,500
again for the company, his 
margins need to increase from me

4715
03:55:58,500 --> 03:56:00,000
in sales. 
Need to increase for me, in 

4716
03:56:00,000 --> 03:56:01,800
order to have a successful 
business, just like anybody else

4717
03:56:01,800 --> 03:56:04,000
in business. 
So like those are my goals as 

4718
03:56:04,000 --> 03:56:08,000
specific. 
Manufacturing Evolution things 

4719
03:56:08,000 --> 03:56:11,100
that I'm trying to accomplish. 
Some of them have been pretty 

4720
03:56:11,100 --> 03:56:14,100
difficult like I am trying, dad 
was a paper-based system so like

4721
03:56:14,100 --> 03:56:17,700
I'm trying to do everything from
you know e-commerce integrate 

4722
03:56:17,700 --> 03:56:21,000
automation for inventory and you
know, I'm talking to seller and 

4723
03:56:21,000 --> 03:56:21,800
I'm like well what can you guys 
do? 

4724
03:56:21,800 --> 03:56:26,100
You know the XYZ? 
So for those who are interested 

4725
03:56:26,100 --> 03:56:29,300
so it's C Sharps Arms calm. 
So C is for Christians for the 

4726
03:56:29,300 --> 03:56:32,700
original Sharps patent, holder 
was Christian Sharps, originally

4727
03:56:32,700 --> 03:56:34,800
our percussion guns and then 
after the Civil War they were 

4728
03:56:34,800 --> 03:56:37,400
converted into subsequently 
redesigned as a metallic 

4729
03:56:37,400 --> 03:56:41,000
cartridge gun. 
And yeah, so it's a, it's a 

4730
03:56:41,000 --> 03:56:44,900
niche markets but they can hunt,
they can shoot there's black 

4731
03:56:44,900 --> 03:56:46,600
better cars. 
You can shoot Smokeless in our 

4732
03:56:46,600 --> 03:56:48,900
guns discussion 30s. 
So she's shooting smokeless and 

4733
03:56:48,900 --> 03:56:51,600
jacketed bullet. 
Yeah. 

4734
03:56:52,600 --> 03:56:54,500
So he's freaking awesome. 
That's life. 

4735
03:56:54,500 --> 03:56:58,900
I mean that's like amazing. 
And the fact that I'll put them 

4736
03:56:58,900 --> 03:57:02,500
in the DCF guns, right? 
So that's three stores on how 

4737
03:57:02,500 --> 03:57:07,600
excited that makeshift but I'll 
very much did a Colorado, so 

4738
03:57:07,600 --> 03:57:09,900
great. 
No, I mean a lot of stuff for 

4739
03:57:09,900 --> 03:57:13,000
him. 
My philosophy on business is I 

4740
03:57:13,000 --> 03:57:15,100
don't believe business needs to 
be a 07 game. 

4741
03:57:15,100 --> 03:57:17,800
I don't believe that in order 
for me to win, you have to lose 

4742
03:57:18,800 --> 03:57:21,900
I realized that that thought 
process is not Universal in the 

4743
03:57:21,900 --> 03:57:25,300
business. 
I've got some very full of 

4744
03:57:26,700 --> 03:57:30,300
Arizona, oceanfront property and
you know, sharp tooth 

4745
03:57:30,300 --> 03:57:35,800
competitors in my space. 
Like my refusal to name drop, I 

4746
03:57:35,800 --> 03:57:39,200
don't talk shit. 
I promote my products, I build 

4747
03:57:39,200 --> 03:57:41,500
relationships and friendships 
that are mutually beneficial, 

4748
03:57:41,500 --> 03:57:44,300
and I'm always looking for that.
Because again, I think, if you 

4749
03:57:44,300 --> 03:57:48,200
succeed, I want to succeed. 
If, I succeed, if I succeed, you

4750
03:57:48,200 --> 03:57:52,100
should succeed, my customers 
succeed, my Craftsman, should, 

4751
03:57:52,100 --> 03:57:54,500
succeed. 
My vendor should succeed, and my

4752
03:57:54,500 --> 03:57:56,800
supplier should succeed. 
It should be all the way around.

4753
03:57:56,800 --> 03:58:01,100
Not, I have to crush somebody 
else to be able to be successful

4754
03:58:01,100 --> 03:58:04,200
in the space. 
Have you talked to Night Hawk? 

4755
03:58:04,200 --> 03:58:06,500
Justin, you know, Night Hawk, 
I'm from there, but no, I 

4756
03:58:06,500 --> 03:58:08,300
haven't. 
So while we're here, we're going

4757
03:58:08,300 --> 03:58:10,300
to go meet with them because 
they have a pretty good 

4758
03:58:10,300 --> 03:58:13,100
distribution chain, too. 
To put you into those places, 

4759
03:58:13,100 --> 03:58:15,800
right? 
So guns are my passion. 

4760
03:58:15,800 --> 03:58:17,800
I love it. 
Fun, too. 

4761
03:58:17,800 --> 03:58:19,900
I wish we could not talk 
politics and just do guns. 

4762
03:58:19,900 --> 03:58:23,300
I would do that all day long. 
That's why I'm not here too. 

4763
03:58:23,300 --> 03:58:26,300
It's the thing and I agree like 
that Rising tide. 

4764
03:58:26,300 --> 03:58:29,500
That's all the ships. 
That's the attitude that that 

4765
03:58:29,500 --> 03:58:32,200
used to be an American attitude.
I think a lot of people didn't 

4766
03:58:32,200 --> 03:58:35,500
have to do Cutthroat. 
So anyway, I think it's, I think

4767
03:58:35,508 --> 03:58:37,200
it's a refreshing. 
I just want to get people at 

4768
03:58:37,200 --> 03:58:41,200
least a little taste. 
Another little facet of of your 

4769
03:58:41,208 --> 03:58:45,100
of your story, which is taking a
family business, and bringing it

4770
03:58:45,100 --> 03:58:47,700
back from from the brink, which 
is as American as anything else,

4771
03:58:47,700 --> 03:58:50,600
you know. 
And I appreciate you spending a 

4772
03:58:50,600 --> 03:58:52,200
ton of time with us. 
I have no idea how long we've 

4773
03:58:52,200 --> 03:58:53,400
been going there but it's been a
while. 

4774
03:58:53,408 --> 03:58:55,600
I feel like our legs are gonna 
need some walking, which is 

4775
03:58:55,600 --> 03:58:57,500
cool. 
We're gonna go walk around the 

4776
03:58:57,500 --> 03:58:58,600
SHOT show. 
We'll do this again tomorrow 

4777
03:58:58,600 --> 03:59:01,400
morning with a little bit more 
timeliness and we will not be 

4778
03:59:01,400 --> 03:59:02,900
delayed at. 
We've got our setup now. 

4779
03:59:02,900 --> 03:59:05,300
So thank all the audience, 
that's that, we've gained 

4780
03:59:05,300 --> 03:59:08,500
audience as the as the podcast 
has gone on for whatever that's 

4781
03:59:08,500 --> 03:59:09,900
worth. 
So for all of you who've been 

4782
03:59:09,908 --> 03:59:11,100
listening, thank you so much for
listening. 

4783
03:59:11,100 --> 03:59:13,900
We do appreciate that. 
I'll give Joe, and then we'll 

4784
03:59:13,900 --> 03:59:15,100
give Zach final word if you 
like. 

4785
03:59:15,100 --> 03:59:17,700
Um, yes. 
So we'll, we'll post the entire 

4786
03:59:17,700 --> 03:59:20,800
thing on the audio version for 
conservative daily, so you can 

4787
03:59:20,800 --> 03:59:24,600
go to apple. 
Vodka Google podcast Spotify 

4788
03:59:24,600 --> 03:59:26,300
Pandora, iHeartRadio TuneIn and 
more. 

4789
03:59:26,300 --> 03:59:30,000
You'll see the BK Network. 
You'll see this over six day 

4790
03:59:30,000 --> 03:59:31,300
period of time. 
So I think we spent like five 

4791
03:59:31,300 --> 03:59:35,200
hours here, probably. 
So um, so so just you'll see 

4792
03:59:35,200 --> 03:59:39,700
this in Parts. 
But incredible story, I do want 

4793
03:59:39,700 --> 03:59:41,800
to say this. 
Is Zach. 

4794
03:59:41,800 --> 03:59:46,900
I've said, thank you now twice. 
and, I I don't know why your 

4795
03:59:46,900 --> 03:59:51,100
story and Kyle story and Steve's
story resonates with me. 

4796
03:59:51,100 --> 03:59:53,700
Probably because it's the 
antithesis of what I think of, 

4797
03:59:53,700 --> 03:59:57,000
when I think of the FBI, I 
didn't have a strong opinion of 

4798
03:59:57,000 --> 04:00:01,400
the FBI and, you know, you 
restore that kind of idea that 

4799
04:00:01,400 --> 04:00:04,200
this is a small part of what the
FBI is not a big part. 

4800
04:00:04,200 --> 04:00:07,800
And so if we can get that, the 
small part that is actually 

4801
04:00:07,800 --> 04:00:12,600
hurting the ability to have the 
FBI, have a good reputation or 

4802
04:00:12,600 --> 04:00:15,000
restoring kind of dignity to the
organization. 

4803
04:00:15,000 --> 04:00:19,500
I'm rooting for you to go back 
and hopefully that it fits into 

4804
04:00:19,500 --> 04:00:22,000
just skull crushing. 
Yeah. 

4805
04:00:22,000 --> 04:00:25,900
Maybe some of that. 
But the idea is right, you know,

4806
04:00:25,900 --> 04:00:29,900
I'm always driven by my face and
frankly said some awful things 

4807
04:00:29,900 --> 04:00:33,100
about me and you go to Dark 
Places. 

4808
04:00:33,100 --> 04:00:35,900
So I just anything I can do to 
help you. 

4809
04:00:35,900 --> 04:00:38,000
Not go to those Dark Places. 
I'm here. 

4810
04:00:38,000 --> 04:00:42,000
I'll stay in shoulder shoulder. 
I thought. 

4811
04:00:43,700 --> 04:00:46,400
I want to thank both of you for 
doing what you do. 

4812
04:00:46,400 --> 04:00:52,100
I am a firm believer that this 
new media is, where at least 

4813
04:00:52,108 --> 04:00:55,100
American Media needs to be 
having real conversations with 

4814
04:00:55,100 --> 04:00:56,800
real people about some real 
shit. 

4815
04:00:56,800 --> 04:01:00,800
So I've never met you before, 
but thank you for what you said,

4816
04:01:00,808 --> 04:01:03,900
and thank you for being here 
with me and letting me share my 

4817
04:01:03,900 --> 04:01:08,700
story and I mean thanks to you. 
You are a bit of a barn burner 

4818
04:01:08,700 --> 04:01:11,800
and I know you have a mixed 
reputation of your own. 

4819
04:01:11,800 --> 04:01:13,400
You've got your friends and 
you've got the folks who really 

4820
04:01:13,400 --> 04:01:16,000
don't like you. 
I don't agree with everything 

4821
04:01:16,000 --> 04:01:19,700
you say, but I think what I've 
learned from you is, you have, 

4822
04:01:21,100 --> 04:01:23,700
Tried to support me in your own 
way and never asked anything in 

4823
04:01:23,700 --> 04:01:27,000
return which says something 
about you for me. 

4824
04:01:28,000 --> 04:01:32,300
And I have also learned that, 
you know, I can tell you, I 

4825
04:01:32,300 --> 04:01:35,100
don't agree with that. 
And just walk away, okay? 

4826
04:01:35,100 --> 04:01:37,200
That you say it or not like 
that, you're outside the bureau,

4827
04:01:37,200 --> 04:01:38,500
you say what you want to say 
from your experience? 

4828
04:01:38,500 --> 04:01:41,700
I will say and you can now 
empowered me to say what I want 

4829
04:01:41,700 --> 04:01:44,100
to say about the bureau and my 
own experience because you've 

4830
04:01:44,100 --> 04:01:46,800
got yours and I've got mine and 
every other employee that's ever

4831
04:01:46,800 --> 04:01:48,000
been there. 
It's got their own experience. 

4832
04:01:48,000 --> 04:01:54,200
So, I think you for that, um, 
Know, and I again everybody that

4833
04:01:54,200 --> 04:01:57,400
ends up listening to this that 
knows me and supported me, you 

4834
04:01:57,400 --> 04:02:00,500
know, just thanks, you know. 
I mean that peer support, it's 

4835
04:02:00,500 --> 04:02:05,500
been crushing, you know, it's a 
soul punch but I've had some 

4836
04:02:05,500 --> 04:02:09,700
incredible people that have 
supported me and I've said 

4837
04:02:09,700 --> 04:02:14,700
before that, you know, I'm very 
lucky in the fact that I somehow

4838
04:02:14,700 --> 04:02:17,600
managed to surround myself with 
some people during the best of 

4839
04:02:17,600 --> 04:02:20,800
times that we're still there 
when that shit hit the fan 

4840
04:02:20,800 --> 04:02:23,000
that's and it was not the best 
of times anymore. 

4841
04:02:23,000 --> 04:02:25,900
And many of them I thought for 
because they thought really 

4842
04:02:25,900 --> 04:02:28,700
powerless because they're like 
what like what can we do here? 

4843
04:02:28,700 --> 04:02:32,100
Like we would love to do it. 
So thanks for everybody that's 

4844
04:02:32,100 --> 04:02:35,200
known me this done that and 
thanks everybody still in the 

4845
04:02:35,200 --> 04:02:38,100
bureau that would fall into my 
hero category. 

4846
04:02:38,100 --> 04:02:41,900
I don't have that much love for 
the zeros that are out there and

4847
04:02:41,900 --> 04:02:47,300
some of the folks that did what 
they did to me, but I really 

4848
04:02:47,300 --> 04:02:49,500
believe in the folks that are in
the FBI doing what they do, 

4849
04:02:49,500 --> 04:02:52,400
regardless of, whether it's a 
treaty or case, agents or 

4850
04:02:52,400 --> 04:02:57,700
everything in between, we you 
guys do a good service for the 

4851
04:02:57,700 --> 04:03:02,000
bureau and I am very hopeful 
that this change in Direction 

4852
04:03:02,000 --> 04:03:05,000
and wind. 
It makes you more capable of 

4853
04:03:05,000 --> 04:03:06,700
doing those things that the 
American people deserve. 

4854
04:03:08,100 --> 04:03:11,600
Amen. 
That's the last word, folks. 

4855
04:03:11,600 --> 04:03:12,500
God bless you, thanks for 
listening. 

4856
04:03:12,500 --> 04:03:14,200
Hope you have a great day. 
We'll see you again tomorrow. 

4857
04:03:15,600 --> 04:03:20,500
Thank you. 
Thanks for listening to the Kyle

4858
04:03:20,500 --> 04:03:24,000
seraphin show streamed live 
weekdays on rubble.com slash 

4859
04:03:24,000 --> 04:03:26,900
Kyle seraphin. 
Follow Kyle on Twitter truth 

4860
04:03:26,900 --> 04:03:29,900
social and Instagram at Kyle 
seraphin.