Take a look behind the curtain with a real whistleblower, an
American patriot. Prepare to embrace the
uncomfortable truth, because this program has no time for
comforting lies. Here is civil liberties
enthusiast, Second Amendment defender, and recovering FBI
agent Kyle Serif. Well, hello my friends, and
welcome to the Kyle Seraphin Show.
If you are seeing this, that means that I am on the road.
I am traveling in Idaho and Montana, and I have left you
with some interesting parting gifts for the week that I'm
going to be away. I think you're really going to
enjoy today's conversation. Pretty heavy stuff, things that
you can walk away with and think that maybe you have a little
better grasp of what's going on in this country through an
interesting lens. Going to be bringing on Joe
Altman. We're going to be talking about
America, about who he is, about why he was demonized, how he
lost some social media followings.
These are some things that many of you have also experienced.
First, I want to say thanks to my friends over at Catholic Vote
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Here we go. We're going to have a fun chat
with my buddy Joe Altman and Joe has been getting himself into
some trouble. He doesn't behave on social
media. He is a suspended.
I don't know if he's suspend the bowl if he's a just a guy who
got cancelled. Joe, what's what is that?
Well I got you blocked out here. Let me get you.
You got thrown off Twitter again.
What's going on, man? I did.
I got thrown off Twitter again and it, you know, I've been
thrown off. I think I've been thrown off of
everything. The only thing I haven't been
thrown off yet is truth. I've got you.
I got your truth. We'll plug that at the end for
sure. You got a good following over
there. You're starting to build it up.
Let's start off with who you are.
Look, some of the some of my guests probably haven't seen you
before. We we run in some different
circles. So, Joe, where are you from?
Where'd you grow up? I grew up in the hood.
We got to be more specific. I grew up in the DMV, Virginia,
Maryland, Washington, DC I spent my life there, and then I moved
to Colorado about, say, oh, 27 years ago.
And I've been here ever since and just done a lot of crazy
stuff out here and had a lot of fun.
And I have a before Jesus and then after Jesus.
Which part do you want? Well, let's start at the
beginning here. What did you grow up?
What did you grow up doing in Virginia, Maryland, the DC area?
What? What was your.
I mean, were you into sports? Were you were you an athlete?
Oh, yeah. Were you a nerd?
I was, I was an, I was an athlete and I was into dealing
drugs. Talk more about this.
I, you know, at 16 years old, I left home at 15 and sold drugs.
So I literally, I didn't. But I was, AI was an
entrepreneur, so I wanted to sell drugs in bulk.
So I had big packages of them and I would, I guess I was a
mule. So I didn't really sell drugs.
I just, I muled them. And so I did that for a little
bit. And then I just decided that I
didn't want to be. That's not the type of guy I
wanted to be. And you know, so I just kind of
moved sports, changed my life, right.
So played football and basketball and wrestling and and
then I moved to, you know, I I went to school and then man and
the rest is kind of a blur. And.
Hung out with five. I hung out with five guys in
school and one of them went to jail for 15 life.
Was it for a violent crime? I mean, got in a fight, hit a
guy, a guy hit the side of a table, fell over and died.
But I mean, it's a it's kind of AI actually.
Haven't told that story ever. Let's talk about it, but.
But he is. He's a plumber now, so he's out
of out of prison. He loves Jesus.
But because we both were in a different life then than we are
now, we I think we both decided that just because I can see that
he's changed and he can see that I changed, we hung out with each
other when we weren't changed. Does that make sense?
Yeah, your connection's from literally a different life.
Yeah. Uh huh.
So then, so then I I went to, you know, I kind of, I'll kind
of start from the in Colorado part because there's a lot of
stuff that happened to me when I was a kid that I was just, I was
just bad. I was just not a good kid.
I was. I'll just tell you, I was not a
good kid. But not dumb.
No, I was not dumb. I was not dumb.
And I was a really good entrepreneur, 'cause I just, I
figured that standing on the street and selling drugs would
be one thing, But selling drugs in bulk, where I have to just
spend 3 hours doing it and you make like four or five grand,
you know, it was. You only have to do it once a
month. Way higher payoff way lower
exposure. What what drugs were you moving?
I'm I'm really curious what was the thing that you were moving
at the time? I think it was cocaine.
You're given a package. Let me just tell you how it
works. You were in the FBI, so you
probably know this. You're given a package, you're
given instructions. Typically it just goes in,
You're transported from one place to the other.
So I just transported from one place to the other and I didn't
ask a lot of questions. I did ask after the second time
of them handing me money, that my money be separate than their
money because I didn't want to go back and hand somebody an
envelope and wait for them to give me money.
I just thought it was too risky. So I was like, hey, can you just
split it out for me so that I can mine's in a different
envelope? Just limit your exposure time
there, yeah. And what kind of people, what
kind of people are you dealing with?
Who? I mean, who's?
Who are you transporting with? I don't need you to get super
specific, but like, what? Are they organized?
Are they independent operators? Are they affiliated with
something outside the country? What?
What does that look like? You know, there's a saying.
Loose lips sink ships, and I don't think there's any time
limit on that, right. So I mean.
Self preservation is a good instinct.
I'm not mad. Well, I'm, I'm already on the
left's list of people that they want to take out.
I'm. I'm on the list of the rhinos
they want to take out. I mean, I got involved in a lot
of different things that frankly, I didn't want to get
involved in. Yeah, if you go look up your
name on the on the Internet, it's not a lot of positivity, it
turns out. Yeah, I was at one time.
I mean, I'm a 2020 Ernst and young Entrepreneur of the Year
finalist, right? I mean, I built a tech company
from a cocktail napkin to one of the larger data companies in the
country. I'm a I'm a gun dealer.
Now I have. People, people call you at all
hours. Yeah, people call me at all
ours, especially when I'm on the podcast with you.
That's really kind of a different one.
No, but I. People don't know this, but
before we got started here, you're like negotiating out,
selling off a vehicle. You got your hands in a lot of
pies. But OK, well, I bought.
I bought the. I bought.
I have this GTO. Anybody want to buy it?
It's a 67 GTO. I've had it for about 7 years
and you know, I have. I have a new toy that I bought,
which is a 1989 Eleven SC that I want to do some work on.
And so my wife said no more toys.
So my cousin had somebody that wanted to buy it, and they're
literally going through it saying if they wanted to give me
less money than I wanted to take for it.
And so I told him I'd pay him to sell it.
Yeah, so he's trying to get me to sell it for as little as
possible, and I'm trying to figure out if he's maybe putting
some money in his own pocket. He's an East Coast boy too.
There's, there's that hustle attitude.
OK, let's let's push you. OK, East Coast.
At some point, did you decide that the drug game was not for
you? Did you decide there was some
danger there? What was the the calculus that
made you move out to the mountains or was it running
after a girl? There's a lot of reasons why
people run off. In different places.
I mean, I came, I came here because of AI moved here with a
girl, I moved to Colorado with a girl and that didn't work out,
you know. But from that relationship came
two beautiful children who now are grown but and we're still
friends. Again, I'm still friends with.
I don't know if I should say this on here.
I'm I'm friends with most of my ex girlfriends still.
That's probably a good thing to have.
Here I don't have. Yeah, nobody wants.
I'm friends with my ex-wife and I mean my children are amazing.
It it keeps you from having like strangers showing up that have
some deep seated hatred for you. I'm sure the less the more we
can eliminate those people. I mean, they're different kind
of strangers. I know you've had some antifa
run insurance, but having people in your personal life that
actually know something about you that actually might have a
reason to either think if they think positively in your past,
that's good. OK, so chase a girl out there
doesn't work out. You got two kids coming out of
it. You told me you were going to.
Tell me kids are amazing. So then there's another part in
this that's kind of every part of my life is not normal.
Like it's just not normal. My dad's black.
My mom's white. My whole family's interracial.
My brother was murdered by a police officer in 2017 in the in
the DMV I I run guns now. So I mean I have 3 three gun
stores in five ranges and we're the largest seller of guns and
ammo and or one of the largest in Colorado.
We're a Sig Elite dealer. We have a lot of fun.
I've dabbled in pretty much everything.
But before I got into all that stuff over the last 17 years, I
kind of ran with a bunch of guys that thought that I was just
smart and special. And so, you know, I built up a
couple companies before, made a bunch of money in my 20s,
thought that I was untouchable. You know, the the the old
kool-aid adage. You know, you drink your own
kool-aid and you, you find out real quick that, you know you're
not too big to fail. And so I, you know, I did.
I did a bunch of cool things and then 2007 happened.
I got defrauded out of a hedge fund.
I mismanaged people in capital. I blew up two companies, really
just catastrophic business failure.
And that happened in two, actually two, late 2006 and then
in 2007. I guess that's when kind of my
life just changed for the better.
Let's talk about that. What happened?
I think, I mean, from a faith standpoint, I think Jesus just
kind of grabbed a hold of me. I mean, I I couldn't stop
thinking about. I remember sitting in this room
and someone was talking about taking Jesus out of a box and I
just seen all these different things.
Yeah. Thanks for that coffee.
Appreciate you had. I've seen all these different
things in my life. I've seen, you know, I've seen a
lot. I mean, growing up in DC, you
you just see a lot, you see a lot of of violence, right?
And then my parents were kids having kids when they had me and
my brothers, and so they talked about taking Jesus out of a box.
And so I I did. I took Jesus out-of-the-box and
started just studying the Bible. And all my friends that I hung
out with didn't really want to hang out with me anymore because
they'd say I was a Bible thumper.
And I talked to them about Jesus and and it and it got really
weird for me because I couldn't figure out how it had taken me
so long to get to a place where that was my focus.
Like that was my true north. And in the middle of all that,
I'm, I'm fighting lawsuits and I'm losing money and I'm
fighting the state and I'm getting in all sorts of of I
mean just I'm, I'm, I'm not there's no fight or flight.
It's only fight. I don't have a flight in me and
I've always kind of never walked the line.
So here's the line And everybody's like, hey you get
close to the line. You can't do anything illegal.
You can't do anything unethical. Why stay completely away from
it, even if it cost me money? Well in this case in 2007,
everything came crashing down around me and it had a lot more
to do with the fact that I was just in that fight or flight or
shoot me. I was in that fight mode and and
I just didn't pay attention and I was AI was just not doing what
I think you should be doing. You know I didn't honor my my
girlfriend who at the time who's my wife now and and I just
didn't. I didn't do, I didn't do right
by the people in my circle. I was a Playboy.
And so, But my life changed in 2007.
My life changed. And I remember somebody calling
me saying, hey, do you want to go to the Middle East?
And I didn't. I hated Middle Eastern people in
2001. I'm from the East Coast.
I mean, for me it was, I hate Muslims, right?
I had all sorts of names for Muslims and I I spared no
expense in using those words freely, even if people were at
at restaurants, right. And so.
Did you know a lot of Muslims? I didn't know a lot of Muslims.
No. But.
So he asked me if I want to go to the Middle East.
And, you know, I was. I got pretty deep into prayer.
I mean, I I didn't really. It's not like I grew up without
faith. But I got into prayer to try and
figure out, like, what's going on around me, like, can I have a
burning Bush? And I have no idea what I'm
going to do next. And then I got this phone call.
And so I ended up going to Saudi Arabia, of all places.
And you'd say, well, Joe, how do you go from, you know, over here
building a company, having some big partners and, you know,
having some really bad things happen here and everything
collapses. And then all of a sudden you're
like, ah, you know what? I just want to follow?
Geez, I have no idea what that looks like.
I really don't want to get back into business.
I'm trying to just figure out what happened over the last
year. And then somebody says, do you
want to go to Saudi Arabia? I mean, just think about that.
It's not even, it's not even normal.
Is that normal? Is that normal to you?
No, that's bizarre, but. I.
Let me What made you think? What made you even open to
hearing somebody comes to me today and says, hey Kyle, do you
want to go to Saudi Arabia? My answer is going to be no
thank you. I've got some other things going
on. So there has to be a, a, a
particular willingness. You you talked about getting
sort of humbled. Is that is that the right word?
Getting kind of leveled by some things?
I I don't know if you call it humbled or just crushed.
OK. Like if you if you could imagine
walking down the hallway and you look at a light on this side and
on this side and you start seeing these doors, right.
But every time you close the door, all the doors are closed.
And so you feel like you're just walking down this hallway and
you're just doing what what you are being led to do.
It's it's the it's the weirdest feeling in the world.
Because every time I would go, yeah, I'm going to go do this,
it was like door closed over here, door closed.
And the only one that stayed open was hey let's go to the
Middle East. And it literally was that that
strange. So there, so there's this door.
So what's the answer? So I'll walk through it.
And I went to Saudi Arabia and I met with some amazing people and
people that I thought were that I thought were bad people.
And I went there with the idea that this is not going to end
well here. I'm this Christian guy.
I'm. I'm kind of a new Christian.
So I'm talking about Jesus a lot.
And you go there and it's the complete opposite of a paradigm
crash. Start meeting people and you're
talking to people that are Muslims about Jesus.
I mean, so think think about that.
You're you're a Christian. You don't think that you've read
all the stuff that Muslims hate, Christians.
And I mean, I I read it all right.
And so. So I'm looking at this, this
group of people and they're, they're praying.
I don't know anything about, you know, Arabic.
I don't know anything about Muslims.
Heck, I can count how many times I walked into a room and I went
to. I'm left-handed.
And you know the one thing you're not supposed to do in a
Muslim country, just put your left hand in to grab a roll or
grab food. And so I'm like nom nom, nom,
nom, nom nom talking, having these conversations with people.
And I got my hand left hand in the middle of the table and I'm
grabbing stuff. People are all looking at me
like, Joe, you're not supposed to do that.
And then I would meet some great people.
You start meeting, you know Shaq's and and Princess and King
Abdullah and you have all these different interactions with
different people, not just on this one trip but on multiple
trips. And so you're, you're a little
kind of freaked out about it, 'cause you're like, you don't
even know how important they are or aren't.
Like, it's not, it's not the same thing as being, right.
There's not, like 50 bodyguards around them.
It's they're just regular people.
And they're wearing a dress. I don't, I don't know if you've
ever, I mean, it looks like a dress to me, right?
And I'm wearing a suit and they're wearing a dress.
And I'm kind of, you know, kind of like looking at that, Like,
what? What?
What is that? Kind of jealous, 'cause they
look pretty comfy. They look, they look really
comfortable and then you start wandering in your head like they
have anything on underneath that.
Is that like, is it? Just set it up.
Just. Going like, yeah, it's a normal
thought. I think that's.
Yeah. What's going on, what's going on
with this dress? Yeah.
I mean and and you don't really know what's going on, but you're
in the middle of it. So you're like, OK, I'm just
going to kind of go about my business.
I'm going to pretend that it's tiger stripe boxer shorts like
that. They're in like a combat role
for jungle and they're all wear and.
They're all wearing different headgear, too.
So you're like, what does that mean?
What does the red and white mean?
What does the yellow mean? This is.
I mean this is the man in a foreign land.
This is the fish out of water experience.
Many Americans never have this, by the way.
They never go to a culture that is completely different than
their own. A lot of us stick to Western.
I mean that's me too. I The closest I ever got was
somewhere like a Poland and and that you want to.
Poland. It's a little different.
It's a little bit different. They don't speak my language.
They look a lot like me still. They thought I was Polish.
I couldn't understand anything that was going on.
But you're in a a completely foreign area where people are
dressing differently. They're speaking differently.
They're eating differently. Yeah, And they're receiving you
with a lot of grace, it sounds like.
Yeah. And then what sets when you
know, when you. I mean, I know this this isn't
about faith and it's not about. It's not about, it's not about
faith at all. But there's something that
happens when you're there and you feel really bad for all the
things that you had said before, right.
And so then you start re examining you know who is the
enemy. And I'm a big reader, right?
So I I love to read. I mean I I I still to this day I
I got books that are sitting around me and I'll just pick a
book and I'll read it. And I just love reading.
I love reading about everything. So I love reading about history.
I love reading about technology and and which is really what led
me to do the the company that I have have now but but I but I I
just started reading so I read the Quran.
I didn't say Joe why would you read the Quran.
It's not like I was trying to convert myself to to Islam it's
that I wanted to I saw I wanted to seek to understand.
I wanted to understand what I had missed for years prior to
that right. And you know, I believe that my
growing up and growing up in a in a world that I think is
probably more racist than it is now, even though they say that
everyone's racist now. I think it was much different
when I was growing up in the 80s because, you know, I'd see my
mom go to work for my to my dad's work and they would fire
him. He's really hard worker.
He's one of the hardest workers out there.
And they would fire him because, you know, she's white, he's
black. You know, white people hate you
because your dad's black. Black people hate you getting
mom's white. You don't really fit in
anywhere. You grow up fighting.
I mean that's really what what happens.
You end up, you know, on the street brawling a lot and so.
And this and you know if I can interject for one second, I've
got a really good buddy who grew up in Maryland and had a very
similar experience and you know he's a white guy ended up
marrying a black woman. They've got these beautiful
little kids. But he's like, we all, we catch
weird looks in certain places because even though that's
pretty common in, I think, accepted in polite society, it's
still there's places where that is that is not very common.
And she's also, you know, she's like literally from Africa.
So she's got a very specific look.
And if she wants to, she can sound very W African.
And that's really amusing to me. She's really aggressive with
him, which is also funny because he's like, he's a brawler.
He's all like, he's built kind of like you are.
He's built, you know, muscular, athletic, you know, solid dude.
He's got a neck tattoo, which you don't always see.
And he looks like a hard guy. When I saw him, I'm like, oh,
that guy's probably a felon. That was my first thought.
And I was like, I'm going to have to watch him.
And he ended up being like one of my favorite people.
And he's not a felon. He's not a felon.
No, he's. I mean, he had some, you know,
childhood troubles a lot like what you were talking about.
He got himself into a lot of trouble and and then ended up
being the guy that is the opposite of that.
He's the guy that's watching people and trying to help
people. And he ran a liquor store and
dealt with all kinds of people that were, you know, shady and
had people stabbed right in front of him in his own store.
And he's like, hey, what are you guys doing?
This is my business. You know, he's like, he's a
business guy. So interestingly enough, there
is still that thing happening and like you said, the 80s in
some parts of the country. That is still the reality.
And it's not the places that you'd think.
It's not the Mississippi's to me, it's not the Alabama's or
whatever. I mean, a lot of it's like DC,
Maryland, it's, it's Northern Virginia.
It's the place where you'd expect a lot of progress to
happen. For some reason, it's gone the
opposite way. Yeah, it's really weird to watch
and. It it is.
It, it is. And you know you you build these
relationships, these melting pots as you get older and then
you start seeing that that doesn't carry over necessarily
to the professional world. And you know obviously nobody
knew that my dad was black. And so I would go into these
business deals and I remember losing lots of business deals
because they would use the N word.
We sit at the table and this this business guy that wants to
invest a bunch of money in this thing that I'm doing, use the N
word and you know I'd I'm triggered.
I'm truly triggered like I, you know, I mean, if I guess in the
term I went saw, I went leftist for a minute, I would literally
get. Yeah, it's.
I mean somebody who exposes a kind of just like casual
bigotry, though, that's a problem.
I think I I don't like it it it it it maybe just the child of
where I am. But I I get that same idea.
I'm not the same way. I don't have a parent that's in
that category. But you know, I got a bunch of
buddies to serve in the military with and you said that and
you're like, how dumb are you? That's my real question actually
is how ignorant are you that that makes sense to you to use
it that way? Because you know, there's people
that are garbage everywhere, but it's not about their race, at
least not my experience. Fair enough.
And and I so, so as I got into this Middle East thing, I would
I I was a math guy, so I, like, knew how to solve problems.
And it's kind of this freakish almost autistic.
I'm not autistic, but kind of like that feeling where you can
you walk into something and you have vision.
And I often refer to it as I see dead people.
Right. That I I can figure it out.
Like if somebody put something in front of me, I'm like, OK,
well, all right. Yeah.
Here's what we're going to do. We're going to do this and it's
all going to fix it and it's going to work out.
And that's been like a gift that I've had my entire life.
And then I find myself in this place where they're asking for
my advice. I give them that advice.
And then they asked me to come back again.
Like, I just went for once. I just want to go once.
And I thought it was great. And I came back talking about
the culture and the people, and the food was amazing and how I
put my left hand in the middle of it.
And I thought, they're going to chop my arm off and that, you
know, that the people wipe their butts with their left hands and
now you're coming back telling everybody, hey, you know, they
wipe their hands, their left hand.
So that's why I don't touch your left hand.
So now we get freaked out because they're trying to shake
my hand and then they put their other hand cause on my arm.
And I'm like, oh, dude, did you wash that hand that you just
wiped your Brett with before you actually put it on?
So all these things are going through my head all at the same
time. And at the same time, it's this
innocence. It's this innocence of just
wanting to learn more. And so they invited me back.
And then? How old are you about that time?
I was 32. OK.
'Cause I was worth 20 million by the time I was 30.
I was worth 3 by the time I was 32.
That's a strong move. Back it went backwards.
Yeah, not everybody is going for that move.
I mean it, it really, I mean if you're looking like Cliff
diving, Cliff diving, it would be a good good, you know, if
you're diving off the Cliff that that was.
That was your net worth graph, yeah.
It was like it was. It was I.
It was awesome. I mean, if you wanted to
catastrophically fail in a way that.
Yes, a 90% net worth drop is a that's an impressive move.
Not everybody does that. Yeah.
And and and by the way, I was, it was 100% cash for like I
remember sitting in my $150,000 car, which in 2007 was a nice
car, right. And I.
Couldn't pay just now. It's just an F-150.
Yeah, now it's just F-150. Yeah, So.
But I remember sitting in this car and being like, wow, I can't
even. And you go and you get, you
know, and I don't go to Walmart, but I went into Walmart, 'cause
I said I had to convince him to turn my phone on, which is a
different problem. And I'm trying to figure out how
to maneuver all this stuff. I own all this stuff.
And you have to sell all this stuff and you're going through
some crazy stuff in your life. I mean, it's just not.
I don't recommend it, all right? I'll just.
It sounds challenging and and as you just said, cash poor.
So just for people's awareness, we're talking about you have
assets that have a certain amount of value.
A lot of those things also probably draw against it.
They might be, they might even not really be assets.
They might just be things that you own that actually have sort
of a negative drain. And then all the money's gone
and then it's like can I liquidate, right.
I mean, that's what you're talking about sitting around
with $150,000 car wondering if you can fill up with gas, I
imagine would be a weird experience, but.
It was real, yeah. It was real and and but it at
the same time, there's this calmness that comes over to you
when you're trying to figure out what happened and now you're in
a foreign land. Someone's actually paying me to
go to a foreign land. And I was like, man, if you just
kick in an extra 500 bucks, I can pay my cell phone bill.
That's what I thought. I mean, that's what I was
thinking. That's literally what I was
thinking. But I went there and I spent a
week there and it was awesome. What was the what was the the
opportunity that was presented to you that that sent you
through that door? I was ready to go talk to people
in the Middle East about in in Saudi Arabia about Jesus.
We're going to do it under the auspice of business.
I was like, look I don't, I don't know how I can offer
anything. I mean I blew up two companies,
mismanaged people and capital. I mean I'm I'm kind of like I'm
the quintessential failure. I'm not sure I'd put me in a
category of anyone that can give anybody advice about either
Jesus or doing a business deal. I'm probably, you know, I said I
used to tell people when I was there, I was like, yeah, I'm,
I'm actually not that bright because if I was, I wouldn't
have done these things and I would tell people authentically
what is going on in my life. It turns out that the more
authentic I was with them, the more they trusted me.
Interesting. Because and I was like, wow, so
I don't have to I don't have to hide anything like so in my
life. I it was like this moment in
time where I realized, 'cause I would not tell anyone about the
fact that I came from bad stock, that I don't have good pedigree,
then you know that. I mean, frankly, my brother died
running from the police, right? I did not have.
I mean, I would not say I love all of my brothers and sisters,
but some of them had drug problems.
And there's just a lot of things that happened by growing up
poor. You don't have the same
opportunities, right? You just don't.
And so when I went there, when I went to the Middle East, and I
and I know we, we can spend, I can spend all day on this.
I mean, I went to 65 countries like Bahrain, Lebanon, Syria,
Egypt, Sudan. And the more that I would learn,
the more that I I'd learned about their culture and the
problem we put in front of me, the more I started to then look
at what they're saying in the United States.
And I went to Afghanistan, I went to Chad, I went to Libya.
I went to Somalia, Kenya, Uganda, Tanzania, Ghana, DRCI
mean, you name it, I they they would ask me to go to somewhere
and I'm like, yeah, I'll go. And all this is under the
auspices of of sort of missionary work.
Yeah, capacity analysis, infrastructure development on
one side. And then it turned into
negotiating in areas of conflict like tribal conflicts and things
like that where you could walk in and kind of work through it.
And then through that, you know I started, I got I I have to be
really careful because you know that in certain countries
there's you have OFAC office for an asset control and you are not
allowed to give material advice to to terrorists right, or
terrorist designated nations. And so I met with President Al
Bashir of Sudan. I met with President Kefour of
Ghana. I met with, well, the the big
one is probably the meeting that I had with Al Bashir.
And one of the reasons, one of the times that I was meeting
with him, he was actually under indictment for crimes against
humanity, right? So he, he got indicted at The
Hague for genocide and ethnic cleansing.
So I started reading about Jeff or Norris and Pendergast of John
Norris, John Pendergast of Save Darfur.
I don't know if you've heard of that organization.
I remember them. And so I was like, well, I I
have to go to Darfur. I have to go.
I mean, that's the first thing you think of, right?
It's like, let's, let's go. I was like, let's go.
I I would be a pass on that and I would think maybe I shouldn't
go there. That was my first thought.
But I appreciate different strokes.
So you you're reading that and you're like, I got to go to this
place where there's conflict and people are dying and.
Hey, so let me let me do this. Hey, can you go grab what's on
my desk, you know, little thing on my desk.
Can you grab that for me, please.
I I think your. I think your audience probably
needs to hear this. This is.
I mean this is there's something that sits on my desk every day
and when I went to the Middle East I actually went to the
Middle East with the idea that this is it.
Like I've lived my life on a knife's edge for since 2007.
As in I'm just going to choose the right.
I'm always going to choose what's right, always going to
choose what's right. I don't care how difficult it
is. My dad, when he was younger,
he'd say, hey, what's right is rarely popular, was popular, is
rarely right. And so I'm just going to walk
that path. And I got really good at it
walking that path, but it it put me in a lot of bad situations.
And then it was like chess for me.
Like, how do I find my way out of it?
You know, how do I get my way out of this?
So I went to Darfur and I tried to see if there's ethnic
cleansing or genocide, right? And what do you think I found?
I. Don't know, tell me.
Found none. None of it.
There was no genocide or ethnic cleansing.
It didn't exist. They've been intermarrying for
thousands of years. There's no signs of any
government structure at all other than the three or four
people that they got to say that people came in in these, you
know, these Sudanese, you know, army fatigues and wiped out that
there was no, there was, there was no signs.
There was no indication there was no.
There was absolutely 00 evidence that either one of these things
actually exists in Buffalo and raised $6 billion.
And that's what the that's what the charity was doing.
How how much visibility did you have, What was going on, I mean
how in in the intelligence where we talk about confidence in your
assessment. So what is the possibility that
there was something going on? You couldn't see it, any
confidence? You have 43 Darfurian rebel
groups. You have the the Chadians, you
had the the Janjaweed, you had the Libyan army.
You have a country, literally that is has no borders in an
area that literally when you go in and you talk to the people,
you sit down and talk to the people, they're like, yeah,
that's not true. That's not true.
And I'm and I'm talking people. Look, I'm going to tell you
something to be where I am now. I loved what I was doing and I
know that I saved people's lives.
I know that I I was in the the north part of Kenya and they had
a poacher out there and I'm with KSC, which is the this the
Kenyan security forces in Kenya. And you know what the you know
what the penalty is for a poker. I assume it's death.
On the spot, I just walked over and stood in front of him.
I was like, yeah, you're not killing this guy.
You have to kill me first. It was like the dumbest thing
any human being could ever do. Sketchy move for sure, yeah.
Yeah. And they and they used to call
me the Crazy Mizungu, Crazy White, The Crazy white.
I'm telling you right now. I was there in Darfur and I
started to to to dig in because I I like to dig into things.
And I went and found out Susan Rice at the UN.
And then I got to meet with President Al Bashir and I got to
meet with with other people around him and ask questions.
And then I I got to be in the room.
We were talking about what did they really need?
And you start talking about sanctions and I I went to Kanana
Sugar, which is one of the largest producers of sugar in
the world. And it's the only part of Sudan,
by the way, that is not considered a part of the
sanctioned nation. It's like, it's like it's, it's
everything else around it is sanctioned.
Kanana Sugar is not inside of Sudan.
And I was like, well, how is that possible?
And then I, I started looking into QR TS, Right, which the
quantitative factors of how you can actually import sugar.
And I started just digging into the why, the politics of things.
And the more I dig, the worse it got.
And I'm like, this can't be, this can't be.
So I wrote this white paper that there's no genocide or ethnic
cleansing that, and that this is, this is all manufactured by
this person named Susan Rice. And then somebody came and
talked to me and said, you can't you, you can't turn that, you
can't do nothing with that, Like you'll be dead.
Right. And so I was like, all right,
well, take my name here. Can you do something with it?
They're like, yeah, I'm like, here, here you go.
I just hand them the report. I said you can check out these
people in in these areas, but they've been intermarrying for
thousands of years. That's, you know how you
ethnically cleanse an area that is not.
Yeah, there's no gender distinct, or there's no there's
no racial distinction or there's no ethnic distinction, is what
you're saying. No.
And and and if you talk to the people there, it's not really a
thing. Right now you're talking about
an area that we could drive for 30 miles.
And you would think that you're the only part of humanity that
exists. You wouldn't see an animal.
You wouldn't see, you would see nothing.
Like, it's it's like nothingness.
You might see a Bush, right. That's it.
There's no, it's an area that's sparsely populated, right.
You pick an area that's sparsely populated that people are spread
out. It doesn't make any sense.
And and I used to, I used to ask lots of questions.
I would ask more and more questions and I would come back
and the more questions I asked the less answers I had.
Like I went and I got this letter from Boeing's they're
trying to get parts for to help so that people wouldn't
airplanes from the Sudanese air Sudanese wouldn't fall out of
the sky. And so I would just go back and
just ask questions like hey is there any way we can help these
people Like I I mean these are these are the the the victims of
these sanctions that are put on this nation.
And then I started reading into the Abye district, and I I'm
spending way too much time on this, but I don't even know if
it's fascinating to you or your. Listeners but I I think that
first of all you and I have had a bunch of conversations.
We talk about American politics all the time and that's fine and
that's easy and I think we all kind of have a sense of what
that is. I'm I'm always interested in
formative in like why are people the way they are, what makes
them tick. And this sounds like it makes
you tick in a way that we've never talked before.
So we'll we'll keep digging on it let's let's keep you know
you're so you're talking about people at Boeing.
Yeah. And they, you know, I had this
letter that Boeing had sent, hey, that they had sent Boeing
and Boeing had sent back saying I'm sorry, we can't get your
parts. And so I just thought, yeah,
there's got to be a way to get them parts.
But Sudan's on a sanction list, right.
And I can't give material support to Sudan or any nation
that is that is considered a terrorist.
You can listen, but you can't give any advice.
I mean, it's it's kind of a really so.
And you're there because you really want to help, right?
And they give you one problem to solve and you solve that problem
and then you move on to the next problem, you solve that problem.
And so people start to trust you in this area because you don't
have any. There's no agenda.
It's not like you show up and you're like, OK, give me a, A, a
suitcase with $5,000,000 in it, right.
I mean that happened there a lot, but you'd see it.
Not with me, but you'd see it. And they tried to give me a, A,
a, A at one point in a different environment.
And I was like, yeah, I'm, I'm not interested because in my gut
I was like either somebody is setting me up or somebody wants
to own me. That's all that thing that kept
going through my mind, right. And so, but I started learning
more about Sudan, South Sudan and the fact that there's this
area that runs between South Sudan and the north and it's
called the Abye district. It's a oil rich district and
when all of this stuff was happening, when President Al
Bashir was being accused of of crimes against humanity, guess
what they started finding? And so I started looking at the
fact that the US couldn't control it and foreign policy
and you'd meet people that would ask you lots of questions and
you learn hey that's probably, that's probably acia guy.
We probably should stay away from him because I will tell
you, the CIA does hire some really sharp people,
sociopathic, but still some sharp people and.
Then I started getting involved in South Sudan because it's not
a sanctioned part of it. And so I started meeting with
people that were down in South Sudan in leadership.
So I want to know more about what was really happening.
And then there was supposed to be a transfer of wealth, which
was a cut for South Sudan. And South Sudan was saying they
never got it. Well, somehow in the middle of
all that, they did get it. And I happened to be there when
they did get it so that I knew they got it, but they were
saying they didn't get it. And so then that's the first
point where you're like what? What is happening here?
Right. What?
How is this, How is this a thing?
How is this? And you start figuring out that
nothing is what it seems. And then the more nations you go
into and the more times you come home, they're saying one thing
about the Middle East. And I'm there seeing something
totally different. And then they're saying stuff
about Africa. And I'm seeing, you know, they
said China's a real problem in Africa, but China's the only one
that went into some of these nations and actually built what
they said they'd build. And the United States would come
in and say, hey, we want to give them money, But they didn't give
them money, right. We're going to promise this.
And they never show up. And then you have these NGOs
that are basically, you know, I can't even tell you how many
times I I would go to there for a project.
And the pastors that are supposed to be doing pastoral
work are sleeping with the young girls in the hotel room.
It's like a revolving door of girls coming through the hotel
room of a pastor that's over there to supposedly do work for
an NGO. And the more I got into it, the
more I just have to solve problems.
I have to solve problems. I have to solve problems.
I've solved problems which brought me to the Middle East
even further. And I got to go to Afghanistan.
I got to go to Iraq. There's times that I had to
leave my passport at the border where I'm like I'm I'm not I
don't even know if I'm supposed to go in here.
So I'm just going to, I'm just going to go.
So I would just give them my passport and just go and I get
on a, you know, and then I had a cell phone there that that has
SIM cards. You swap swap SIM cards no
matter what nation you go into. It's not like this now, right?
They have all sorts of different SIM cards in different
countries. And you, you, you, you start to
get to know people, right? And you love these people.
You love people in in Africa. You love people in the Middle
East. You, I mean, you, you learn to
just it becomes your central point.
And then there's a guy named Jeffrey Sachs at Millennium
Project. I don't know if you ever heard
of that. That was a project Jeffrey Sachs
did. He's a Columbus, Columbia
University professor. And he said he, he was going to
find the ways to eradicate poverty in Africa, raise like $8
billion. And so then I was asked, hey,
can you go look at these Millennium projects?
And I was like, sure, he had all this stuff.
I read all the studies and he said, hey, we're doing some
great things and we've been, we built a separate deal of
commerce and we're, we're including things that are just
it's creating just sustainable growth and environments for
people in West and East Africa. So I went, there was absolutely
zero economic activity happening at all in any of those villages.
None, zero, none, none. Not 0.
And so I got on this BBC Radio thing and I said something and
that led to something else. And the next thing you know,
every time I went back and forth into the United States, every
time I went back and forth in the United States, I'd have
people that were like, yeah, step over here, Sir.
Hey, step into this room. And it was like a four or five
hour deal where I'd have to get questioned and, you know,
where'd you go? What were you doing?
And again, I believe the transparency was the best, best
deal. So I did that and then I.
What do you attribute those those interactions you had with
customs or at the borders as you're coming in?
What do you attribute that to? I don't.
I don't know. All's I know is that it was my
first foray and then nothing is as it seems, right?
That you know you you think that people are all on your side and
and they would know things. They would say things and I'm
like wow, how did you. Oh, and I would go into AI,
would go into an airport and I would have.
I remember I was in this airport once and they had these expenses
that they were paying that they could pay for these expenses.
They would do it in cash. And it was weird because he paid
in cash and he would literally put the the bills down on one by
one on the table, which is kind of uncomfortable.
It was like $8000 in cash. I'm thinking to myself, just, I
trust you, just give it to give me the stag and I'm good.
Like, I don't, I don't care. You don't have to.
You don't. I don't.
You don't have to count it. And but he counted from me.
And then all of a sudden I get back and they start asking me
questions and, you know, like, where'd this money come from?
I said that's expense money. Well, from what?
Yeah, it's just expense money. I learned not to be too overly,
you know, giving with information.
I gave them exactly what I knew I had to give them.
But I never did anything wrong. Here's a line.
I'm over here. But I didn't have a whole lot
of. I've never had a whole lot of
confidence in the government. Just have them.
Yeah, that's probably a safe position to hold and probably
everywhere where government exists, right?
I I always say it's like the worst solution to every problem,
even when it's the only solution.
So I think, I think that's that's a safe sort of
discomfort. I wanna wanna ask you something
because as you're growing up, younger age, getting yourself
into trouble seeing people do bad things, I imagine right.
You see people cross the line, people getting involved in all
kinds of evil activities and knowing what that looks like,
that's pretty small scale. Even drug trafficking is it's
person to person. Now you're talking about going
to nations, you're talking about international potential fraud,
international people who are presenting false information and
taking in not thousands of dollars and not 10s of thousands
of dollars, but potentially millions or even more.
That's you just said 8 billion is what I heard for nothing.
Let they're essentially shining on people that are never going
to be able to verify and you're doing spot audits and going this
isn't. It was a front.
That's the front. What?
What does that, what does that show you coming from where you
came from with the things that you previously experienced, had
you. Was that surprising?
Was that like, ah, yes, of course.
Where? Where does that fall into your
life experience as you're seeing these things happen in front of
you and they're unveiled? All right so it it tells you
that you now know how the sausage is made.
You you know how the sausage is made.
You you know that the system is not designed for people to have
opportunity. It's designed for certain people
to have opportunity and they get to choose the winners and they
get to choose the losers and they get to funnel money through
these Ng. This is the first time where I
had the fray into knowing about the funneling of money through
Ng OS and the fact that USAAID food.
You know you know 4050 sixty percent.
I don't know what it is most statistics are made-up on the
spot so but it was a large portion of that food that ended
up on the black market. Well the only way to have ends
up on the black market is if they allow it to end up on the
black market. And you got NGO organizations
and one in in particular that had $300 million / 3 decades
that they had funneled through it and all they had to show for
is pit latrines in Kibera which is one of the biggest slums in
Africa. It's in.
It's right inside of Nairobi, Kenya.
The and the acronym you use the food organization.
What is it? What's the acronym?
USAID. And what is USAID specifically
supposed to do? They're.
Supposed to supply food to indigenous and poor communities
around Africa and some parts of the Middle East and or Asia.
And that's 100% US funded US. Government.
No, it's it's actually so you have a World Bank and you got a
couple other organizations and you know the UN kicks money into
it. So it's a it's a multinational
effort but the the United States is the one that kicks up, kicks
in a majority of it. So it's like buying a stage,
stage name, right, for a stadium.
Same thing can be said for for USAID and it and it's real, it's
really kind of a a weird organization because you'll
start to ask questions and you can't really figure out, you
know what logistics look like. And so you have the United
States and some that you know, basically runs it.
And then you have all of these people that are bringing food
in, grains in. And then man, there's so much I
want to tell you about this. I literally could do a 50 hour
podcast on things that I discovered when I was over in
the Middle East and Africa. I just, I mean I've met with
Guantanamo Bay prisoner of 345, Sam Elhaj in Doha, Qatar at Al
Jazeera and I walk in. You have this really tall man,
he sits down and we we start talking and he's this gentle
giant. Well, he spent years in
Guantanamo Bay being tortured. And I had to ask him, what was
it like? And you know this grown man
crying. What?
What country was he from? He's from Sudan.
He was a cameraman that was in Iraq.
It it's a fascinating, it's a fascinating environment to be
in. And you know, I could, I could.
I talked about being the only white person on the street in
and you could see kind of the hatred on certain people as you
walk by like they hated you 'cause you were they they they
assumed you were a Western or you were an American And the
amount of just stuff that has happened there as a result of
us, right. And things that I saw And then I
started reading on and you talk about what happened in long
before 2001 where you know hundreds of thousands of women
and children in Iraq were were killed.
Right. And you know Madeline, I always
refer back to this Madeline Albright in 1996 sixty minute
interview when asked if the if the sacrifice of those 500,000
children were were necessary and and and that it wasn't worth it,
she responded. I think it it was it served our
interest I I just it blows my mind that you know killing off a
half million of anybody would be would be worth it.
Allan Allmark's a real interesting character, isn't
she? I mean, I I remember she was
kind of lionized by at least anybody that wasn't paying
attention. And I, you know, I was a kid
when I remember the the stuff going on in in Bosnia and and
happening in the and the Balkans.
Then you go back and you find out that like they destroyed a
whole bunch of stuff and she owned the only telecom interest
there. And there's all these weird
conflict of interest. And you start thinking like,
man, you talk about how the sausage is made.
There's some, you know, every everybody likes to think that.
And I think this is the the one thing that you probably got to
see a little bit of. We both kind of see some of
this. Now everybody would like to
think the problem is really simple.
It's a couple of evil people driving some evil cabal, but
it's not that easy because there's a lot of evil people.
They all have coaligned interests.
They don't have to know each other.
They just all have to agree to be morally flexible and
everybody gets rich as long as you don't care what's right and
wrong. And that's a very different
animal. It's so much harder to to try to
even grasp because it's such a big problem.
I have to imagine that that's some of the issues that you're
seeing because you're talking about US Aid, an organization
that's literally designed to just hand out food.
And now we're talking about 40, fifty, 60% of the the proceeds
of it going into black market. Somebody's getting really rich
over that. Somebody's getting a lot of
influence over it, right? Somebody's getting a lot of
power and pull and access with whatever that is.
Maybe it's our government, maybe it's other people and maybe
it's, you know, just people who are business folks that that saw
an opportunity. Like there's so many evils that
are open there, as long as you're flexible to it.
Yeah. And and it, you know, I I had no
business being there. I had no business being there.
I had no business solving the problems that I solved and I
solved big problems I hadn't. I had no business being in the
room and 95% of these meetings I had no business you know going
over there and kind of ho humming.
And I call myself the Forrest Gump of pretty much everything
just kind of walking through. The only thing I didn't have is
a is a bubble gum shrimp company.
And I'm just walking through and I'm like, Oh yeah, you joke.
Can you fix this? Yeah, sure.
And they'd say we, we need a water catchment.
And I'm like, OK, So I went back here and I picked up the deal
and I'm like, OK, I'm going to look it up.
And what if there's like a, I don't know, is there like a
water company here that builds, like the engineering company
that builds reservoirs? I just pick up the phone.
RJH, it's right here in town. I was like, ah, Robert, let me
see if I can call him. And I call him.
And I was like, hey, look, I want to build some water
catchment in Africa and can you help me?
I mean, that's how silly it was. It was.
And I and I would solve that problem and and I would go and
do do prayer with people in different, in different
countries and with different religions.
And I would I I had this innocence that once I was able
to set everything down and look, it was not easy.
I'm going to tell you right now, nothing that I did in those 6
1/2 years were easy, right? It was difficult.
It wasn't hard though. It was just difficult.
It was just you're solving problems.
And then the dynamics of the ethos that you have in that
environment and you're not much like we're today, like what we
we find in our society. We're actually not fighting each
other. We're fighting people above us
that are creating chaos that is dividing us.
And then we don't trust each other.
But the people we really don't trust are the people that are
running that have that alignment of ideals.
So I think that's, I think that's the interesting lens that
you bring to looking at America in the last couple.
When do you see this country having it feels like it's taken
a like a a nose dive like your net worth when you were 30, like
it feels like it's done something our trust in
institutions, our trust in each other maybe.
When did you see that start taken the downward plunge in
this nation? So look, my, I I think it's
probably important to know that my daughter went to high school
and she was a straight A student.
She went to high school. And and by the way, reason I
brought up Samuel Hodge in that meeting is that I got a a
message from her counselor at a school saying your daughter has
DS and F she thinks you're going to die every time you leave
leave the house. And there's some reasons for
that. I mean, there's some things that
happened to me while I was there that she wasn't wrong.
I didn't exactly walk into the safest.
It wasn't like I was walking into a 711.
I was walking into really crazy places.
So, so that that shaped me coming back to the United States
and saying I'm done. I need to take a sabbatical for
seven years and I had learned a lot and but I was committed to
my children. I wanted to make sure that they
were good. And so I with that said I I went
back into business by accident again.
You know, I'm sitting there having beers with my buddies and
I'm trying to solve a business problem and I'm I so my my home,
I turned it into an Event Center because I was gonna, I didn't
know what else to do with it. This big old 11,000 square foot
house that I should know, right? I didn't know what to do with
this, so we turned it into an Event Center.
Turns out to be it. It was like a brilliant idea.
This is like a wedding, A wedding venue or wedding.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and it's this
Mediterranean Italian villa and we ended up selling after about
18 years. But, and it was our home before
that had a swimming pool in the living room.
It's pretty awesome. Built by the mob.
It's pretty crazy, right? Crazy out.
No business that I have in any of this.
I'm just telling you, it's like you get, you get to that place
where you turn around and you're like, what is happening here?
This is Is it the The Talking Head song.
How did I get here? As the day.
What is that song called? Yeah, as the days go bad.
And this is not my beautiful house.
This is not my beautiful life. Yes.
You know what I'm talking about. Oh yeah, yeah.
I don't have any rights to play this off.
It literally is my life. I come from bad stock.
I know I come from bad stock. Like there is no, like, I mean
you talk about you know families that had everything.
I, my family's never had anything right.
It's just and or torn apart like never got along with it.
It's like The Judds and the clampets in one family.
Nobody ever got along and and so when I came back here I came
back and cut grass. So here I'm meeting with kings,
presidents, prime ministers. I'm one of the National Prayer
Breakfast every year. I learned Arabic straight out of
BE. I learned Arabic flying back and
forth, mostly because I wanted to know if they're going to cut
my head off when I got there, like.
Solid. I got really good at it, right?
You still have this thing in your mind where you're going
through and going, why aren't they going to kill me?
And this night not work. Out right.
And in the middle, in the middle of this, you had the the Daniel
Pearl. Remember the guy that that now
that cut his head off right on the beach after he told everyone
how bad America was? So you have thoughts of this in
your head and you're a fighter, so you're ready for it.
But you're also have this incredible love for the people
that you're with, and it's unbelievable.
But then I came home and I just started cutting grass.
I mean, I literally did nothing. I I just, my wife ran it.
I just cut grass. My grass was perfect, like
grass. I got to tell you, it was the
the best grass you would ever see anywhere.
And that is not. I'm not talking about drugs
either. I'm talking about grass.
Like real grass that you like talking.
About like baseball, infield level, crosshatch, grassing.
Yeah. And and I like, I made sure the
place was perfect. And I I did this decompression,
but I went to just hang out with my kids.
You know, the whole thing for me was I just wanted my, I wanted
my children to have their dad like it was their time, right.
I mean just spending two weeks on two weeks off overseas, it's
not working. And so then I, I went to have,
you know, just have some beers with my buddies and we're
sitting there and they started talking about this business
problem they had. And I started on a little napkin
store right now how I could solve it.
And I was like, well, here's how we do it.
I mean, this is. So if they're going to do this,
then this is what we have to do when we build this kind of kind
of fraternity inside the community.
And if we did this, then we would allow all SMB small to
medium businesses to share information without sharing
their customers. And here's how we could cut it
together. And they were like, oh, that's
that's brilliant. So for like two or three days I
was like, yeah, it kinda is brilliant.
I think I wanna build a company. So then I sent it to my friend
and I'm like, hey, listen, I got this idea, I wanna send it to
you. And I sent it to him.
And he goes, I keep in mind I had a catastrophic business
failure six years earlier, right.
And so you're like, well, I don't, I don't really.
I don't think I can do this. I don't really wanna do this.
And he's like, how much money do you need?
Well, keep in mind, I was making a lot of money when I went to
the Middle East and Africa. People were paying me to do
things for them. A lot of money.
I mean, at one point they, I got paid 400 to $800.00 an hour for
every hour that I breathed over there, right?
And you're just here. I was like, oh, that's fun.
This this could be really lucrative.
And it was, but it was solving big problems.
So I built my company. I literally built my company.
And I ignored politics. I wanted nothing to do with
politics. I wanted to serve the Lord, and
that's all I wanted to do. And so I started playing
football on Saturdays with gang members.
I started donating my time and money to, you know, help with
kids that needed to go to school.
They want to go to private school because public schools
were so bad. I just started investing.
I was a Tocqueville member for for United Way.
I helped out United Way. I knew the guy that ran United
Way that that was involved in that scandal way back when.
Who died, Bill? And so I I literally just
started volunteering for boards and I was the most active board
member, 'cause they would have a problem and I would just show
up. I'll let guys cancel my
meetings. I gotta go do this thing.
And the more I did this and I poured out into my community,
the more successful I was. Crazy.
It's craziest thing ever. And then my brother died, 2017.
And what was the, if you don't mind talking about a little bit
the circumstances? You said he was running from the
police. What was the story there?
He worked for me. I wanted to change his life and
and in large part there was years that went by that I didn't
talk to my brother. I was just, I just had a couple
years where him and I were just reconnecting because I've given
everyone of my family cars, houses, boats, businesses,
money. You ever seen $1,000,000 baby?
I haven't, but I'm familiar with at least the name.
Yeah, like, so $1,000,000 baby is about the person that who
breaks her neck, She's in a boxing match, gets punched and
she's laying in bed, and our family shows up who's she's been
estranged with for forever and they're just trying to figure
out, you know, who's going to get the $1,000,000.
Got it right before she does. That's kind of my family.
Like, I I think they'd show up at the very end just to grab
whatever they want, right? Take my shoes off my feet.
Is that belt worth anything? Let's take that off them too,
right? Not a great feeling.
I mean, but look, I mean my brothers and sisters, there are
brothers and sisters that I have that are, that are not like
that. But I would say in large part
that that's, that's that's how you I felt with my family.
And so I man, I feel like I'm just telling too much.
That's that FBI thing, right? That's what always people tell.
I'm like, no, I just ask questions that people are OK
answering. This is your story.
So we're hearing it. And it doesn't bother me because
there's nothing in my life that. I mean, yeah, I've seen kids die
of the common cold. I've seen kids get blown up.
I've seen, I've seen crazy stuff.
I've seen somebody use a a knife and literally chop people up.
It's crazy what? I've seen crazy, crazy stuff.
I don't even know where I was going with this.
I don't even know where I was going with.
This well you're telling us you're pouring more out into the
community you're Oh yeah you're you're working you're doing
Scout. Yeah, United Way since.
I was a Boy Scout, but, and I and I learned through the six
years how to negotiate in an environment.
And not I'm not afraid of anything.
Like it's just it's like I was forged in this environment and
I'm not. And I and it's not an unhealthy,
it's a kind of a healthy, 'cause you just as long as you don't
use what can be used for good, 'cause it's used for bad.
But then my brother came to work for me for a couple years and in
2017, you know he was out past midnight and I was on his
motorcycle with my other brother and two friends and cop comes to
mess with them and they all take off.
Well, they centered in on my brother and they chased him for
30 minutes. I still have the recording of
the because somebody inside the Police Department actually got
it to me because they lied and and 90 miles an hour, they hit
him from the side, knocked him off his bike, he hit a wall then
hit a pole, broke his neck and died.
You nearly split him in half. So I mean I like to say that
he's, he shouldn't have run, but you don't.
It shouldn't be a death sentence, right?
Right. I mean there should be, there
should be some sort of understanding and and look, I'm
all about accountability but you had his plate number.
You can just pick him up in the morning and they said have his
plate. I guess it's and he's on a
motorcycle. Yeah.
And I guess that's the, that's, that's the public safety issue,
right? The question is, this is a guy
running 90 miles an hour on a motorcycle because because look,
I come from both sides, but I I think we can see it real fairly.
You go, you're in a car, you're doing 100 miles an hour, you
could hit anybody. That could be the end of those
people. You hit somebody in a motorcycle
at 90 miles an hour, it's just you.
It's pretty much just you. If you hit any modern vehicle at
that speed, it's your own problem, You might damage their
vehicle. It's probably going to be a bad
day for their insurance company. It's going to be a terrible day
for you. We agree on that.
So the motorcycle I don't know like they let motorcycles go all
the time. Mostly because why would you
engage in a sustained chase with motorcycles specifically.
Usually they'll end up hurting themself.
That's pretty much the only person who's at risk it's not a
public danger. I, I, I will land on that one on
that side when it when we look at them fairly and and that's
tough though because then you've got these The other thing is
those cops they have that like they have that instinct it's
either bad policy you know questionable training or maybe
somebody just was like hey it's midnight what else are we doing?
All that is really sad. That becomes a tragic scenario
for basically just you and your family because, well, I'm sure
the cops didn't feel good about it either at the end of the day,
like none of them are. High five.
Well, they they covered it up. Well, that may be the case, but
that's not I don't think any of them are probably sleeping and
thinking like that was the best thing I've ever done in my life
either, right? I mean.
Well, they they didn't tell us that they hit him off the bike.
They said he lost control, but we found taint from the cruiser
on the side of his bike. Was there a dash Cam?
Is that what you're you've seen video wise?
Is that what you're talking about?
No, we're gonna get access to anything.
But I ran a data company, so I was able to run coordinates on
cell phone data and things like that to figure out who was in
the area, and they lied about that too.
So I mean they just lied about everything.
And and frankly, they they wrote these articles about how my
brother was, you know, a A that he had been in trouble with the
law before. Yes, that's true.
That's true. He had a DUI before.
They said he was a drug dealer. He was not a drug dealer.
Matter of fact, he wasn't the drug dealer And it it would have
been me and he's younger than seven years, younger than me.
So that would have been long time ago, the previous life.
And so that that sent me on a tailspin a little bit for about
a year and a half and feeling guilty that I couldn't save my
brother. I've done all these great things
and, you know, I lost probably. I mean, everyone has their,
their favourites and their brothers, 'cause he just had
this kind soul. But and then I just came out of
it, right? And I have a beautiful wife and
my wife is amazing. My children are amazing.
And so then I, you know, then you Fast forward.
I was an Ernst and Young Entrepreneur of the Year
finalist in 2020 when all this stuff happened and got involved
in getting the communities to stand up.
And that led me to be on that call with Eric Coomer.
What does that call tell? People what that call is.
Oh, the call from So they were starting to write bad stuff
about me. I had this this video that I put
out where I got like 3000 people to show up to the Capitol to
say, hey, we're going to open our businesses.
This is when they said you can go to Target or liquor store.
But small businesses don't know how to wash their hands when we
need a daddy. And so they were shutting down
small to medium businesses and really hurting them.
And we had a healthy, healthy dose of bigger businesses and
smaller businesses. And we found ourselves having
this conversation where we're like, why are we taking the
Constitution and balling it up, throwing it in the trash for a
virus? And again, I like to read, So I
started reading. I'm like, this is bunk.
This, this is a lie. They're not.
And why is the media lying with such veracity and why are they
doing this? It doesn't make any sense to me.
And then, so then the antifa came out and it went from
getting businesses to open up to how do I protect my community
'cause they're gonna burn things to the ground this.
Is all in the backdrop of 2020. Am I correct?
Yeah. All right, So let's, let's
mentally set the stage and you're in.
Is it what? What city are you in roughly or
what's the closest big? Denver.
OK, so Denver, Co where were you
guys on the scale of like, I don't know, 0 to Seattle, zero
to Minneapolis. How bad?
They got one. They got one day of burning
buildings and breaking windows one day.
OK. And we organized.
We started seeing some really weird stuff happen.
Right. And you would think that I'd be
on the FTP side, right? F the police.
I'm the opposite, right? I believe you.
You you give up to Caesar. What a Caesar's you.
You respect the law. You respect the police.
If they respect you, I mean, if they don't respect you, then
it's a different deal. So the police were good in my
neighborhood, but they weren't necessarily good in Denver,
right? But I think it's
individualistic. You have bad cops.
You have good cops. We should just do a better job
of holding bad cops accountable, right.
And so when all the stuff happened with George Floyd,
that's when all the stuff with the violence started.
And so we came in and started doing crazy stuff.
We we said, OK, we're going to show up with three, 400 deep and
we're going to go to different areas.
And we had tactical units. It was led by this organization
was led by a guy named Tig Tigon.
John Tig Tigon. So Benghazi, 13 hours.
The guy that was only I met, Tigon Merrigan.
He's amazing. Yeah, he's.
He was actually one of my best friends and I love that man.
Love him. I met him at shot and and I met
one of his buddies that he used to shoot tactical games with
Peter Johnson and both solid, good, solid, good guys.
Yeah, so you know, he he called people to get together and said
let's protect our communities. And wherever we went, they
backed down. And I was just trying to empower
people. But then the media started
writing bad stuff about me and we started this organization
called FEC United, which stands for Faith, Education and
Commerce, 3 pillars of our society.
And how do we keep churches open and not have this mask deal and
give people free choice, which is what we're all business, what
the foundation of this country is built on.
And so I started, they started writing all these bad things
about me. Well, that's that's new for me.
Like I spent the last bad years. Everyone loved me, huh?
Yeah, you're the bad guy. I, I wanna, I wanna dig down
into the idea if you're used to seeing things overseas and
there's a, you know you're going into environments where you want
to know the local language just in case they decide to cut your
head off because that's how sideways things could go.
That's a real thing. And you've seen sort of false
fronts fraudulent you know presented internationally as
being legitimate and then you're seeing on the back end of it
there's literally no substance. There's no one.
It's it's Wizard of Oz. Don't be.
You know, don't watch that man behind the curtain kind of
scenario. I just told you I saw dead
people, right? Yeah.
What are you, what are did you see in 22 because I think that's
the question that. So I I don't know what the
answer is to any individual person, but there's a a chunk of
America and everybody had a different reason, a different
background for it. There's a chunk of us that
looked at what was coming down in let's say February, March of
2020 and there was some statements made and there were
some asks that were sort of voluntary.
We want you all to be part of this.
We're all in this together and it and it and it smelled wrong
to like a a pretty good chunk of people.
You were one of them. I didn't know you then what like
triggered your your aha like or your your sense that something
was not right and what we were being told was false.
If you can put if you can pinpoint it, 'cause I I'm really
always so curious about what that thing is.
So the reason why I got pissed off is that I had a friend that
committed suicide because you know, the stock market dropped
by 1000 points. He thought it was just another
Armageddon. He'd already gone through this
in 2007, 2008, then we'll go through it again.
Killed himself, right? But prior to that I was the a
week before the end of February, I was in London, went over there
to watch a football match, which is soccer here, right?
So watch soccer with my wife and I came back to this and I
remember seeing the stuff on the on the Internet.
And then I remember what happened in that six years with
the with the media. And I was like, this is an op.
Like they're running an op on us.
This is not real. This is something's very wrong.
Anything you can key in on that that that that screamed OP to
you out of curiosity? Two weeks to slow the spread.
All you have to do is know what a virus is capable of doing and
you you know that you cannot have two weeks to slow the
spread. It can't happen.
So a palatable A. Palatable surrender of your
personal liberties. It's just two weeks, right?
I mean, that was obviously the first step for for most of us
that we saw. And we're like, oh, and then
suddenly you're looking, but the idea that we're going to
literally voluntarily shut down our entire economy, right, for
any period of time. It didn't make sense and and
they and it kept it kept getting worse and worse and worse as you
went through it. Like the the the more that they
would talk, the worse it would get.
It didn't make any sense. Like there was no there's no
part of what they were saying or doing that led you down a path
where you thought what they were doing was following truth,
'cause you you know, I I I haven't, I'm, I'm not a doctor.
I don't play one on TV. I'm not a lawyer.
I don't play one on TV. You have slept in all day in
Expresses in your life, I'm sure.
But yeah, so, so yeah, lots of them.
But when I was in Africa, I had to study certain things because
you had to be, you know, up on malaria, you know, what are the
symptoms? And I I got malaria twice when I
was there, I got, I got. And the third time I got it.
I actually came back with it three weeks later.
It's like, man, I'm really sick and everything wasn't working
right. And he goes, I don't know, man,
I would say you have malaria, but you haven't been.
I got Oh, yeah, I just got back from Africa.
He's like, you're an idiot. That's.
That's not the thing that that's so funny.
There's some things you get trained on as as a paramedic,
you get trained on, like tropical diseases every once in
a while. It's just like exotic stuff that
you just shouldn't exceed. So you just ask that one
disqualifier, hey, have you been to Africa recently and somebody
like the answer is always going to be no, except when the answer
is yes, because I go there every couple weeks.
That's actually really funny, that's you'd be that one guy
where they were just like, you know, I learned this, you know,
10 years ago or 20 years ago in some sort of throwaway training.
Let me let me ping this idea against you, because this is
something my dad and I honed in on, and I find it just
fascinating because saw it too. Do you remember watching on
television? It doesn't matter what news
channel you were on. They had the death count from
COVID and it was running up like the national debt clock.
Do you remember that? It was like in you're watching
it and it's like spinning up numbers of people are actively
dying. We don't even have numbers of
years in arrears. I don't know why I said years in
arrears, but we don't have one year in arrears.
It usually takes two years to be able to calculate the number of
people that died from any given 'cause they had it to the
second. In a.
In a in update, yeah, they're all updating it across all the
news platforms. To me, there is nothing more
fraudulent than telling me that you have secret knowledge that
you could never have. And I know for a fact you
couldn't have gotten it in time. And you're telling me how many
people have died from COVID today.
I know you're full of shit. There's no other way for me to
think that. And you know, everybody had a
different tick. Two weeks to throw.
Still, the spread was in your head.
I don't know if that registered with me, but real time death
counts. That's made-up.
That's not real. That's like, do you, do you
remember the movie Starship? Troopers Oh yeah, Do you?
Remember, they showed, they showed the the the asteroid
comes in and it hits Argentina. It hits hits Rio de Janeiro, I
think. And they're showing they're like
20 million dead. And it shows like the ticker.
That's what it looked like, except that was in the 90s.
And in 2020 we did that for real, on television every day
for a year. Well, and and now you start
looking at that, it's it's actually brilliant you said
that. But if I wouldn't have known
about malaria, I wouldn't have known about ivermectin.
OK. Right.
Malaria is a virus, OK, Ivermectin is is what was given
to me when I had malaria. And I'm like, wait a minute,
this doesn't even why, Why wouldn't we be?
And I would just go back to the books that we had before that I
would look in them and I'm like, OK, well, it says this and it's
at the strongest point and then it has to have an epicenter.
And so I started digging into this virus.
And then by the way, the virus doesn't want to kill its host,
so over time it becomes weaker. I have to Fact Check this one.
Malaria is a Plasmodium. It is a parasite that is not a
virus. I don't know why that bothered
me, but when you said it, I was like that's, I know that's it's
it's a Plasmodium. What's?
What's the thing that it caused? It's a blocker and it blocks the
ivermectin. Well, ivermectin touches a bunch
of different things. It can interrupt a bunch of
different processes, including things in all the.
Bacteria was oh man, what's it called?
We'll look it up. Yeah, I'll, I'll look it up.
But so the. I just.
I just knew that that was hitting me.
Strange. I was like malaria.
That's not true. Well, I I, yeah, I know it comes
from from mosquitoes and it comes from water, right?
I know it comes. So yes, but there's a thing that
they have where it cuts off. It's a blocker, it's an
inhibitor, right? And on viruses, you have the
same ability to cut off and to create an inhibitor you can
actually. All all that sounds correct to
me and I haven't got into the the mechanism of action and
ivermectin in a really long time.
But I remember that there were arguments being that that that
were saying that and and. Then the genome actually doesn't
repeat itself on on the virus. So it actually is like a carbon
copy, but slightly off. So little by little, it starts
to on viruses actually mutate. Yeah, through the reputation,
the replication and we're talking.
About right, but it mutates down, not mutates up.
As in it gets less virulent. Yes.
Yeah, because it's trying. To.
Right. It's trying to adapt to a host.
So yeah, there's a couple things that we heard during that whole
2020 that made no sense #1 The the fear, literally the fear of
discussing natural immunity. That was bizarre.
I don't know why you'd be scared of talking about that.
That's what happens. If you survive it, then you're
usually good. And then, as you said, virulence
usually goes down so that it can be slower, spread quicker, and
last longer in all the hosts. That's the goal of anything that
wants to propagate itself across the population.
If you kill off the population too quickly, then it's not
effective in distribution. You're looking this up right
now. Yeah, no, I was looking up what
I what I came to, it's called Plasmodium transmission, but it
there's something in here that says the efficacy of risk.
Let me see why. We can we can come back and add
it some point. All right.
Yeah. Yeah.
Well, and this is important, I get.
Yeah. I mean, it's not.
A There's there are people that are far more qualified than us
that have that have made the recommendation of iramectin.
And I understand that people that have travelled all over the
world had instincts that that was a good policy.
There's a reason why third world countries used it and had how
about this one? How on earth did the United
States, with theoretically the most advanced medical system in
the world, have worse outcomes than places that don't even have
running water everywhere? With all the money that we
spend, how is that possible? The sun.
We were out. We were indoors.
Yeah, we stayed inside. They told us this two weeks to
slow the spread stay inside and the sun was well, I mean they
said that was one of the things just get sunlight right that I
mean. Yeah, vitamin D and natural.
It's going to, it's going to help you.
I was looking at, by the way, when I went back, going way back
before this all started, there was a funding that was done on
ivermectin and repeating if you had a if it had, if you had, if
you had malaria over and over again.
And there's this huge study in Africa because there were some
issues with certain areas, not it not actually stopping
malaria. Do you know who actually funded
that? Say it was Bill Gates.
Bill Gates. How do these same names pop up
all the time? In his study, it showed that
there was a a reduction in the effectiveness of fibromycin.
And this study was from 2019. OK, right before 2020.
Anyway, I thought it was interesting that Bill Gates, the
guy that actually gave people a bunch of vaccines, that
sterilized entire communities, that's a different story.
We could have a whole story on that.
Now is funding and telling us that it does not.
It no longer works for malaria. Yeah, why would it?
Especially if it's really inexpensive and as well
documented as having minimal side effects.
That seems like a problem if if your goal is something much more
evil and nefarious. Which I don't know for a fact,
but that guy's got some really weird ideas.
Well, and he talks about population control and the World
Economic Forum. So all that stuff and and and
some of the stuff like, I don't know why I'm primed to to read
certain things and not others. But one of the things that I
remember reading and just like really, really resonating with
the evilness of it. Do you remember there was a book
that was called Rainbow 6? It's by Tom Clancy.
I should read it if you tell me to read it.
You should read. You should read.
I mean, look it's it's like a book that you're going to read
on an airplane and you're going to enjoy it.
It's a shoot em up book. It's the story of it's the it's
the continuing story of Jack Ryan.
So Jack Ryan was in a clear and present danger, right.
And he's in Patriot games, so he's this great character and
he's got this young guy. If you remember the movie with
Harrison Ford, they had the young Hispanic guy whose name
was Ding Chavez. I don't know why I remember all
the characters names either, but I do.
I haven't read that book in probably 15 years.
But any case, the Ding Chavez was the kind of the young guy he
ends up and Jack Ryan's daughter.
And so they have a family and he's this, you know, deadly
killer. And they, they have this guy
John Clark. Or maybe he married John Clark's
daughter. John Clark is the CIA guy.
He's played by Willem Dafoe in the Harrison Ford movie.
And he's actually supposed to be like this huge Vietnam era SEAL
who's just a badass. But in any case, the long and
short of this version is they come up with this international
counterterrorism force to handle the specialized insanity threat
That is like imagine like an international Delta Force.
They get Delta operators. They get SEAL Team Six guys.
They get people from whatever the the special Mountain
Division is from the from the Germans.
They get some people from the British FCS.
So they put this rainbow coalition of all these different
nations of all these badasses together.
And then they all train together where they have different
specialties and they're all the nations that are love, freedom
and liberty and Western, the Western way put them all
together and they're under the command of Rainbow 6, which is
the headquarters unit. And that turns out to be this
guy, John Clark, who's, you know, former SEAL CIA guy.
The crazy thing is the bad guys in the, in the book of the story
are ultra wealthy billionaires that decide that there are too
many people on the planet. They create this virus of which
they only are the only ones who have an antidote to it.
And then they go and they spread it around at an Olympic or A at
a sporting event where all the athletes are going to take it
back home with a six or an 8 day incubation period.
They're going to kill off everybody on the planet except
the people that are their preferred people.
And they set up this like dreamland that they can all live
and they all want to see the Buffalo roam across the, you
know, they want to see Colorado depopulated and they want to be
able to go live in this rainforest while everybody dies.
So they build this huge compound in somewhere in in like Brazil
or something like that in the in the rainforest, and they're
going to hang out there until everybody dies.
Then they're going to go come back and take over the Earth and
be good stewards of it. They're like the Sierra Club
that lost their ever loving minds by completely genociding
the entire planet. And you read that.
And of course they have to go kill the bad guys, so they go
kill all the bad guys. And it's a great story.
So that's really fun to read, except that's a real problem.
Like that could be a real thing at this point because we have
people that kind of money, we have that sort of insanity, that
climate. Pagan is what my buddy George
calls them, that mental group of people that are just like, yeah,
there's too many people. We're the right people.
We need to get rid of all the other people so that we can
really enjoy this land because the land is the end.
They they don't have any concept of God.
I obviously, you know that they're godless with that.
But anyway, if you've never read it, I just explained to you 2020
I read it. I lived it.
I actually lived the entire book right now.
So many of us saw things that were parallel to that, that just
went like, holy crap, is this the evil that we're actually
living through right now? Which is why so many people, I
think, thought, you know, I mean, shoot, I drove into work
in Washington, DC and thought I was driving into the zombie
apocalypse. It's what it looked like.
I've seen all those movies, man. Well, it's it's by the way, I'm
sorry, 'cause I get freakishly focused on stuff that I
shouldn't get focused on. You're right about that in 2020.
So I wanted to read the thing that the find the thing that
that made me think malaria and and the viruses go for it and it
and it. So this talks about the study
that happened National Library of Medicine, where they were
talking about novel RNA viruses associated with Plasmodium
vitacs and human malaria. And so this goes through kind of
how when you have malaria, the piggybacks that happen on the
viruses that affect your body, the secondary.
Infections. Yeah, yeah.
So it was. It was just weird.
I didn't think you were. Wrong.
Like I said, I just. I know that's.
Not AI worked wrong. I was absolutely wrong.
I was absolutely not a. Virus, we knew that part, but
there's, I know there's some, there's some correlation there,
so. Yeah.
Anyhow. All right.
So we're we're in 2020, we go through all this stuff, right,
Kumar on the call. Who's Kumar?
He's Eric. Coomer's the guy That's the
director of strategy and Security for Dominion Voting
Systems. He ran 50% of the votes of the
American people with Dominion Voting Systems.
OK, where's Dominion based out of?
Denver, Co. OK.
So this makes more sense that it would be right in your backyard.
All right, carry on. So Eric Coomer is on a call with
who? Antifa.
I call it Antifa. It's a journalist that.
So what happened is, is I held these meetings, 3457800 people
would show up. I started talking about taking
back your community cause again I'm like, this is this is
stupid. Like why?
Why are we letting them shut down our our deal?
Like, I never shut down once at DCF, my company, none of that.
That was never even a thing. I did have to fire a bunch of
people because they would show up in Black Lives Matter
sweatshirts and tell us that we were all institutionally racist.
It's like a sleeper cell. It was crazy.
It's craziest thing I ever went through that summer, right?
And these are all, by the way, white liberals.
And I was like, bro, I know what I know what racism looks like.
I lived it, right? And this is not it.
But I did get sucked into the George Floyd kneeling on the
back of the neck. It it hit me because I had a lot
of bad cops when I was growing up.
But then as I saw Moore again, I started to decide I was going
to, you know, not dig below the surface and check it out.
Turns out it was all a lie. And he still went to jail for 16
years, I think. Yeah, he got shanked the other
day. And and they they literally
think, I mean, I don't even know how you can justify him going to
jail. It's in the manual.
What he did was literally in the manual for police officers.
Yep. I don't.
I I. Also don't understand how if
somebody is trained poorly and that's not great training, but
it's not bad training if it's like, it's not like they they
found that he was kneeling on somebody's neck per SE.
But also you've been in fights, right?
You've been in fights. Have you ever had to subdue
anybody? Oh yeah.
Is that an easy thing to do? Man on man.
Like take somebody and and physically hold another man of
any size like it's. Well, I mean, I just do a leg
wrap and then put him in a chokehold and he's out for a
minute. That's about it.
So. If you can do a carotid choke
and you have the ability to sink it in, then yeah, that's really
effective, no doubt about it. But if somebody doesn't give
that to you or you're not allowed to do that because
that's your policy. Double leg takedown.
Yeah, you do. There's some, there's some
techniques you can do. But do we know that all of our
cops are basically Ninja MMA fighter level, you know,
Brazilian Duetu prizes? No.
Are they all college wrestler level capabilities?
No. That's not a thing they're
doing. And they're also trying to
remember the damn code book and what they're trained and legally
allowed to do. It's just so interesting when
you see someone who's never they're the ones out there
screaming about what cops ought to do, have never tried to take
somebody into custody in a way that is both lawful.
And. Most of them never have.
It's man I watched. I watched a lot of humility
going through the FBI Academy. My buddy is like a six foot two
former Marine. He's a Wildman too, like he was
a wildland firefighter. It's just like a physical stud,
no doubt about it. And a good sized guy, but not
huge, just fit. It took like four people.
There were two people on each of his arms just to keep him.
He was just swinging him because he can, because that and and if
you're not allowed to just, you know, knock somebody in the back
of the head and take him down if your job is to restrain them.
It's really hard and I think a lot of people.
Redman is the most fun in the world, but a lot of people got
humbled that day because they had this bullshit idea that
comes from watching too many Marvel movies.
Like, I'm just going to clock him once in the job and then
he's going to be down. It's like, that's not how it
works in reality. That person's going to hurt you
badly. So I remember I remember being
in AI mean. This is another one of those
before Jesus moments. I remember being in a pool hall
with my buddies and this guy literally is picking on my
friends. So I jumped over a a table and
kicked him and he he didn't go down.
Surprisingly. Surprisingly.
I thought myself. I thought of myself.
I'm about to get my I'm about to get whooped.
This is not going to go. Up.
Yeah, this this is one of the few.
Times that I that's. When you drop the quarter and
you're about to find out what the ride looks like, right?
Yeah, I've, I've, I've seen a lot.
I've seen a lot lot. But in 2020, I wasn't looking
for Eric Coomer, I was looking for Antifa journalist, right?
So I was looking for people to write bad stuff about me and
they were tied to Antifa. And this Antifa kid said they
were tied to Antifa. He's like, look, they're not
really journalists. They're part of this group that
just is is like a, you know, he didn't call it this, but like an
activated cell. These are people that stick
together. They're they're Antifa people,
antifaites. I call them antifaites.
Well, if you're talking about people that are doing pseudo
journalism, that's like a propaganda wing, right?
Like every every good op always has like sort of a an
information operation. Civil affairs for the army, like
it's it's a pretty common thing. Makes sense that they'd be
organized that way. And so I he said he can give me
because the first time I didn't really care.
Antiva. Their Antiva journalist.
Oh, yeah. Yeah, I get it.
I get it. I get it.
I mean, I get it. But the second, the second time,
he's like, listen, I can get you on a call.
And now I'm interested. I can.
I I can infiltrate Antifa. Are you serious?
I'm all about that. I'm all about it.
Sign me up. And so I did.
I got on that call and Ted was supposed to be on it with me.
He didn't get a chance to get on it, 'cause he had to travel.
This is back before they fully, you know, called him a right
wing extremist militia man. Sure.
And so then it was done. I had my notes, did all the
stuff, you know, figured out who they were.
And then I think it was like 2 weeks later or three weeks later
or whatever. I literally stood up on a stage
in front of three or 400 people and said we've infiltrated
Antifa. We know they're not journalists,
right? Well, on that call, Erica said,
hey, don't worry about it. Trump's not going to win.
I made nothing sure of it at the time.
I did not think that was a real thing.
Like, I what do you do? Wave your wave, your wave your
wand and just say that Trump's not going to win?
Because you say so, 'cause you're.
I thought they were hyperbolic. They're, I thought everything
that they are. If you were to walk into a a, a
area and have them talk, they're hyperbolic, They're hateful,
right? All of that stuff was happening,
right? Fast forward the election.
November 3rd. What happened, Kyle?
What happened on November 3rd? I.
Don't know. I I honestly don't know.
I know that we didn't investigate it well because I
know that and and you and I have kind of talked about this a
little privately. But I know that the people that
are supposed to investigate it didn't do it and they weren't
allowed to do it. And that bothers me.
But I have a sense like every other person that looked at it
and went that doesn't make any sense to me.
You don't win the least number of counties with the most number
of votes in history and the other guy over performs even his
previous performance and gets blown out of the water without
something strange going on. There were so many allegations
that were credible that needed to be investigated that didn't
get done. So that's where I live.
I live on the. I believe that it's it looks
stolen but I I can't prove it and I don't have anything that
that that like like definitively does.
I can show you the the evidence mathematically.
I can show you the evidence in 30 or 40 counties.
I can show you the flip votes and the things that they've kept
it in disparate environments that well, this county is
different than this county, but I can run the math on both and
tell you and show you how they are the same.
Obviously we have let my people go.
You know the documentary that that David Clements did, Have
you ever watched that? Have you watched that yet?
No, I haven't watched it yet. I'm.
I'm still behind. You should watch it, so I will,
but you have. I'm so.
I'm so far behind on on what I'd need to be reading and watching.
I can't even explain to you Joe. I'm so far.
But then I just reported on him three days after the election.
OK? And that Monday, I did a podcast
on Eric Coomer. I still didn't know Dominion
voting systems. I just focused on him.
As a guy. Yeah.
And. And it took.
And if if I got into all the details, you would be like,
well, holy crap. I mean, how in the world we
could put all this together? How does this not all come
together? And then I had death threats.
Within 48 hours. I had somebody that literally
came after me that came to my house with guns.
I didn't even know. I didn't.
I didn't dig into Dominion. I'm getting more and more angry.
Somebody tell me they're going to kill my family.
OK, now what? I tell you fight or flight?
Flight doesn't exist in my world.
Fight does. Right.
And I have AI own a lot of guns. I own a lot of guns.
And so I was pissed. Now I'm pissed.
I'm pissed. And I I don't exactly know where
all this stuff is coming from. And then Eric Coomer goes and
writes something that says, oh, and I got banned by Twitter the
first time that's on Twitter. I mean, literally six days after
I got those, I got banned by Twitter.
I. Think I got those.
Do we have those? Yeah, I I like the banned by
Twitter. Here it is.
Yeah, suspended. There's my first one.
There's my second one. First.
First one. Agile.
Yeah, So. And I was pissed.
Wouldn't you be pissed? Somebody comes after your
family. At that point, you're sensory
overload and you're in America and everyone's talking is it's
complete pandemonium. It's chaos.
But I didn't go after Dominion, right?
And no one was talking about the machines.
Like, did it when I when I when I got sent that thing.
And I'm up. I'm up elk hunting that Friday.
I'm not thinking about the election.
I'm thinking, man, this is really weird.
Everything that nothing looks right.
But I'm not focused in on the election.
I'm focused in on killing an elk so I can put some meat in the
freezer. That's what I was focusing on
that, right? And so when I get this
information, my heart sinks for a couple reasons.
There's a couple reasons my heart sinks related to how I got
that information. OK And then I got and I started
digging into Eric Coomer and then you get the he's anti.
He's anti America. He hates police talking about
killing cops. He posts the Antifa manifesto
literally the day after it was released from somewhere over in
Europe. Everything kind of just went.
Now I remember when I was back and I heard it, I went and did
the the due diligence I'd get on videos and like that's the same
voice. OK?
Because all they had was Eric Dominion Denver, Co That's it.
That's how I did my research, right.
And yeah. And then when they first
actually filed their deal, they filed it under, well, it could
have been Dominion Energy. Oh yeah, it sounded just like
Eric Coomer, but it could have been that.
And so then he, he basically went out and said that all the
posts that I said, you know, that I put out there were all
fabricated, that I basically, he didn't have a Facebook account.
He didn't have. He started talking about all the
stuff he didn't have. And I'm like, that's that's
crazy. That's not true.
Like, he he literally, those were his posts.
That was him. And I started digging into more.
He owned the, he owned the the adjudication process.
He he wrote an entire essay about how he raped his wife,
peed on her, made her bark like a dog.
He wrote that and then he put his e-mail addresses at the
bottom. And then I started digging into
more stuff about that. It gets, it gets much worse.
It's much worse than that. You know, I didn't know Dominion
ran 50% of the vote of the American people.
But what would I tell you about what I like to do?
I read, I research, like I'm a research.
I am a research junkie. I'm sorry.
It's like the it's like the part of me where I'm like, oh, you
know, like we were just talking about malaria.
And in my mind, I had to do a self.
I had to do a self correction because I needed to make sure
that as a categorized thing in my brain that I categorize
things correctly. And I have this kind of memory
that I have to do that I have to maybe I am a little autistic.
So get all this. Well, then after he wrote this
article in the Denver Post that said the death threats increased
dramatically and I'm talking about people coming to my house
with guns. OK, not not.
Hey, I I want you to have to drink through a straw for the
rest of your life. That happened.
But people actually coming to my house with guns where the
Sheriff's Department would have to show up with SWAT team in
order to clear my property, that happened like I I had to live
that life where people would come to my office and be across
the thing at my office on a on a balcony.
And I had to have personal security detail and I had to
tell my ex-wife to get out of town and I had to put security
on my son who went to a university and I literally had
to have this person follow my son around.
I mean, it was what would you do to protect your kids?
Yeah, why do you, why do you think that they you were
triggering this response and who was this response from?
So that So then you get more angry.
You get, you get cancelled by Twitter, Everyone else is
shutting you down. They're writing all this bad
stuff about you. You're you're having a
conversation over here. This guy's telling me that I
made-up all these posts. Now, now the vitriol increases
against me and my family, my company.
I mean, it's it's crazy. And I'm like, all right, I'm
going to dig in, I'm going to dig in and I'm going to find out
if Dominion has the capability of stealing an election.
That's when they made a mistake. See, when they pushed against me
on the one thing, it was just God putting me in the middle
saying, hey, you're in, you're again like Forrest Gump where
you shouldn't be. Now the second thing that I'm
going to do, on top of you not being where you shouldn't be is
now you have to go back because you're a, you're a, you're a
tech, you're you're literally a system architect expert.
That's what I do, What I'm really, really good at.
And now we're talking about system architecture.
Is the system designed based on publicly available informations?
RFPs, RFQS, all the documentation, Can they use that
system in order to circumvent an election?
If you remember on November 3rd they had to have a run off
election on January 5th right? What was this?
The Senate race in Georgia. Yeah, right.
This is the worn off seat I believe, right?
Yeah, or was. It worn off or was it the other
guy? Two seats, two seats.
OK, it was 2. There's two seats.
Both the Senate seats had to have a run off because they were
within that that small margin. OK, yeah, I I won't swear that I
remember, but I remember there was a run off there.
I can't remember exactly what was going on, but.
Species you can. You can Fact Check me on that
one. I'm sure you're.
I'll take you at your word right now.
I don't know. I I remember something was
happening there. Yeah.
So, so, Kyle, I said, all right, how can they do it?
And I built the small con, the big con.
I built this, this diagram. And the diagram literally was
here's how they would have to steal it.
Here are the vulnerabilities. Here's what I knew about the
publicly available system and here's what here's what Dominion
with with mail in ballots and absentee ballots.
Here's how they had to go through two adjudications, one
on signature on the absentee or I called it the absentee ballot.
Right. I did not get the vernacular
right calling it adjudication when it's a a signature
verification. So the guy, he didn't know what
he's talking about. He's talking about signature
verification. It's an adjudication.
You have to adjudicate that signature, right.
So I built this diagram. And in that diagram I was like,
oh, my gosh, they're going to steal the election.
They're they're going to steal the election in on the runoff
election. And I know how they're going to
do it. So I started calling people and
I'm like, listen, here's the reality, Here's how 'cause he
sued President Trump, He sued Mayor Giuliani.
He sued. He sued everybody, right?
And he sued people just for talking to me, just for giving
me an interview. He sued them for having me.
He could sue me, just sue me, right?
But he sued everyone around me to make sure that I could talk
to no one, everyone, everyone around me.
And so I went to Washington, DC, and I think I went there on the
4th and I met with him and they had Freedom Plaza on the 5th.
And they said everywhere to put you up on the stage and we'll
put your diagram up. So I put it up on the deal and I
told him exactly how they stole the election.
Once they know who voted, they know who didn't vote.
I told them about the six vulnerabilities and having
access to outside voter rolls they can attach to fraudulent
and phantom ballots. Keep in mind, no one knew any of
this. We did not have Maricopa County.
We did not have Mesa County. We did not have Nevada.
We did not have Georgia. We had no access to any Pre.
All the audits is what we're saying.
Yeah, so how would how would anybody know what I know?
How is it even possible for anybody to have this information
if it's not true? Here's the worst part.
They grilled me all day long and on the 5th.
Who is they again? A bunch of people from different
agencies and John Eastman, like I I got grilled by John Eastman
and a bunch of other people that came in.
I met with and socialized what I what I thought was happening.
I went and met with Patrick, Bernie.
So that's a nice theory. This isn't a theory.
This is how they did it and they're going to do it again
tonight. I think it was tonight or the,
you know, I think the 4th is. I told them that the 5th is when
this happened. And then I said here's the
percentages and the fact the system has to go down, has to
come back up because once they know who voted, what else do
they not know? They know who didn't vote.
So now you can take those registrations, you can attach
those to those phantom and fraudulent ballots and no one
will ever know, right. And then it's going to be the
Republicans are winning, it's going to switch and the
Democrats are going to win. And that's exactly what
happened. So I got a call in the morning,
2:00 in the morning or so. They're like, how did you know?
I was like, I'm clairvoyant. I'm a, I'm a clairvoyant person.
Like, I see dead people. No, I didn't say that.
I just said I'm clairvoyant. And they said we need to get you
You you have to go to the State Department.
OK, why the state? Department.
I have no idea. I mean, they wanted me to meet
with Pompeo, OK? And.
And they had brief Pompeo and Council for Pompeo.
And so then while everything was happening, when when John
Eastman got on that stage and talked about all the stuff
related to the election, when he was speaking about, you know,
they could suspend ballots so you have your stepper database.
They found all that in Mesa County a year later, right?
They didn't. They didn't.
The only way I would have known it is to actually be able to
look at all the manuals and go through all the things that were
publicly available at the same time.
All of this is happening. Dominion is wiping the Internet.
I mean wiping it clean. Of their their publicly
available information. Yeah, everywhere.
So then on the on the 6th, I met with council for Pompeo.
You know, you go into what's a skiff, basically you can't have
computers, you can't have phone, you can't have anything.
Yep, it's, it's, it's, it's eerie.
Kind of got to watch these turns out.
Gifts aren't fun. And it was that State Department
at the State Department. I've been there.
Yeah, OK. And I met with counsel for
Pompeo, with five other people. Now let me just tell you
something. I tell him exactly how it works.
I put up the thing and walk through it.
He goes, why would anybody do that?
And I was like, I don't know, Sir, I just know they did it.
And Kyle, that he did not look surprised at all.
There was no surprise on his face.
Matter of fact, in all the time that I had done negotiating in
the Middle East and Africa, I learned to read people's ticks,
and he had a lot of them. And all of a sudden he had to go
and he left and he was nervous and he knew I don't.
I mean, I look, I I'm going to tell you right now the most
uncomfortable position that I have been in was right then
because I'm going to Skiff. I mean they could just open a
door on the floor. I don't even know.
I mean I I I guess they got to have a floor door somewhere,
right. And so I'm.
Like a trap door. Yeah, but that's not where
that's not where it ended. It got worse than that.
I mean, infiltrated my company, tried to take over my bank
accounts. I had to step down as the CEO of
my company told a story to people that I was actually at
the Capitol when what happened on January 6th, I wasn't.
I was at the so I had to play damage control.
I had to fly back early. There was a there was a a
microphone in my hotel room. I grabbed all my stuff and left.
I mean it was look, if if if and I and I the whole way.
I like, I have pictures I have people that were there.
I I'm thinking to myself this can't be real.
Like this is not, this can't, this can't be real life like
they're they just upped it a notch.
And at that moment I was like, I thought I was ready for it.
I thought, I thought that I was prepared for everything and it
turns out I wasn't. So I came home and you know, I
had to step down for my company for three years, got right back
into the fight and sacrificed what could have been the
largest, you know, win for me and selling my company, you
know, $250 million sales all. Wild.
Yeah, so here I am. Here you are and you do a
podcast every day. I'm a podcaster now.
Yeah, you're selling a goat and. My GTO 67 GTO because my wife
said get rid of your toys because you have too many of
them and I got like AII like old cars.
So I got like an 89. Super no.
Well, well, well, I don't want. To get out of the pocket on this
per SE, I'm just saying that you you've got things in your life,
but that that's an incredibly heavy thing to walk around with.
And I guess what is the biggest question here you felt like
sitting in that room that they were not surprised by what you
said. Why would they not be surprised?
Like why would they be OK with what you're describing?
Even if they believed in what if they wanted what that what
happened? Like the fact that you're out
there saying something that they you believe they thought you
you'd uncovered. I got to tell you.
I got to tell you something. The the problem with paradigm
crashes both ways is you can't Unsee it.
It doesn't matter if it's like when I went to the Middle East
and I found out that Muslims were actually amazing people,
right? And by the way, they do believe
in Jesus. Maybe it's a little different.
And then people say, ah, it's not the same Jesus, not Allah is
not God. Allah means God in Arabic, just
so you know, and Aramaic and allaha, it's all come from the
Abrahamic faith, which I studied, right.
So once you understand the the paradigm crash, you have to then
start looking at it. And then I started looking at
the OPS that were coming out of that, the cue stuff, right.
The beam of lights going to come down.
There's a secret city. President Trump is still in
control even though he's in Mar a Lago.
I mean, you heard it, right? I mean, this isn't new to you.
No, the continuity of government, people that don't
know what continuity of government is that, that's
always weird. It's really weird to talk to
those people. For me, I'm like, that's you've
obviously never been around the government.
And and then you have people like Joe Bond, Pulitzer that
they're talking about stuff, and he doesn't know what the hell
he's talking about. And he said he hacked the
machine, which he didn't. And you have all this other
stuff. It's like this white noise that
exists everywhere. And I just am.
I'm so angry at what I've given up that when they say stuff bad
about me, I fight back. And I'm trying to get to that
point where I can just concentrate and not fight back.
But then I get cancelled from Twitter again because I'm
talking about the same stuff we were talking about before.
And Elon's telling us that it's this free place that, you know,
we we're free speech. And then I see what they do to
other people and free speech. And then they just make up
things and they get rid of anybody that is actually working
the problem and get down to you're allowed to talk about it
and bitch about it, but you're not allowed to do anything about
it. So anytime you start talking
about Gideon project and getting people together to do the right
thing and to stand up in a place of interposition between those
that do harm and those that be harmed, you know that they got
to get rid of those people. And that's why, you know, Elon's
out there talking about this stuff and he's literally
lowering. It's like the Pied Piper.
He's lowering people in. And and I don't know that for a
fact, but it sure feels like it. Because why are those people
that have the strongest voices kept down?
And why is Conservative Inc kept up?
And why are people grifting and grafting and taking stuff from
Mike Wendell and doing all this other stuff while creating these
different factions? Then you start getting down to
chaos. Chaos favors the OP, never
favors the people, right? And then you're trying to scream
from the highest building that this is not real.
Don't follow that. And then people get mad at you
because you're telling them the truth.
But at the same time, you're over here trying to work the
problem and gather even more data, more information, help as
many people as you possibly can unselfishly.
And then other people are taking credit for it.
They walk around saying that was mine, and that's mine and that's
mine. And you stole this from me.
And I'm thinking to myself, what the, what is this?
And I feel like I'm. I've gone back in maturity,
right? I was thinking about that today.
I like, I feel like I'm going backwards.
Like I can't just walk away and let them just talk.
But then I because then they get validated.
And if I don't talk, are you letting them say that stuff
about you or do you? And so now I'm stuck.
I'm stuck in this place where I think.
That feeling is is shared by a more than just you and I.
The idea that certain voices, they're saying something that's
obviously true and resonates, but it's not.
It's not making it through. And there's a lot of that noise.
I think a lot of that. So, so much of the noise, so
much of the noise, so much of the infighting that I see.
Like true social is one of the hardest places for me to
interact because there are so many people.
This is, this is my take on it. I'd be curious in your
reflection. I think that whatever
institutional faith that happened, that that existed in
this country and there was a lot in law enforcement, a lot of
that got destroyed. There was a lot of institutional
faith in the media historically for a very long time.
There's a whole generation of people that said if it's on TV,
it must be true because they obviously have standards and
they're not allowed to say things that are false.
So there's that. There's people that believed in
the Pharmaceutical industry in a way that they couldn't believe
that people who took a Hippocratic Oath do no harm.
There's no chance that those people are doing the wrong thing
or that they have no idea what they're talking about, you know?
And then you go into my pediatrician in 2021 when my
wife and I are moving and she was like, oh, man, must be weird
for your kids to see someone. They haven't seen people in a
year and a half and were like, are you out of your damn mind?
Like, no, they're they're they're my daughter's three.
She's been seeing her neighbors every day.
Because we're not insane. We're regular people, and the
regular people around us are not insane.
Like, you're crazy. You're wearing 2 masks and
eyeglasses. You're bat shit nuts, I can
tell. So all these people lost, all
these faiths and all these institutions.
It's a long way of saying it, but the lesson seems to be
learned by a lot of people in the conservative side, which is
the worst and scariest thing for me.
And the answer was, I don't trust any of the institutions I
did. Therefore, anything I think is
now true. Whatever instinct I have, the
CIA is controlling everything around me.
There's an implant in my head. President Trump is still the
president from Mira Lago, and he runs some devolved version of
the government that runs through a continuity program.
And he's making secret treaties and he's exposing all the bad
guys by making them put him in jail.
And he's actually Jesus and all the other crazy shit that's out
there. And that is all full crazy to
me. I don't know it.
But like, that only comes from one place.
Your mind got warped, you got broken from all your anchors,
all your things that were holding you down, and now you're
just a drift in the world and anything that floats by that
sounds interesting, you just add that to your your own pile of
crazy. You're a you're a crab that's
building a a shiny shell of of lunacy.
And so many people are in that. And it's like for me, it's the
saddest thing I've ever seen. I I always tell people the
Internet was the worst thing that ever happened for mental
illness in this country. It's probably the worst thing
that happened for a lot of other reasons.
But what do you, what do you, what's your take on something
like that, this unmoored sense that so many people have, and
then then they treat the Internet like it's real, which I
think you and I both kind of haven't lived in the real world.
It's not always real. It has real consequences, but
it's not real. Well, I think people are in
different camps because there's an ounce of truth in what
they're saying. That no that.
Bite off on that truth, right? And then that leads them down a
path, right? So you have friends, right?
And you you have a friend. You're I I know that for a fact
that you've been through this. You have a friend.
You do anything for that friend, and then that friend does
something and everyone else is mad at him.
And now they want you to be mad at him too.
And now you're you're you've got your friends.
You've been friends for a long time and you, you know what he's
doing is wrong and you're like, man, And then you go to your
friend, you're like, bro, you're wrong.
And you have to go to him and say you're you're wrong.
And he's like, dude, we're we're friends.
I was like, what the hell has that got to do with it?
You're wrong, right. I'm sorry.
You're you're still wrong. You want me to still be your
friend. Oh, I get it.
You want me to keep your secret. I'm not interested.
I'm not interested in keeping your secret.
I'm not interested in in not telling you and not being your
accountability brother. I'm not interested in that.
And so you sever these relationships because you you
want to tell people the truth and not just the subjective
truth and your truth or my truth.
You want to tell people the truth.
And so you have a lot of people out there that that literally
now are convinced of a truth. But they, they did it all in
their brain because they just went on, they went on the
Internet and they're like, oh, see, it's true.
I got to believe that guy, right?
Because that little bit of truth was like the psyop that brought
him down this path. And now they did it enough in
enough different places. You have enough people that are
that are influence influencers that are out there talking, that
are in different camps, that are just off by three or 4° and
talking about this person, this person talking about that
person, this person talking about that person.
And then most of these people are afraid to tell the truth
about the person that that I'm talking about.
Or they don't know you're you know.
That's the worst. There's so much ignorance.
But you're right there. There's a small degree of
accuracy. It's like is there a continuity
of government program? I I've said that a couple times
but that's that's the the thing that I always see people lean on
that President Trump is still commander in chief because
there's continuity of government.
It's like well, that exists but it's not what you think it is.
You're wrong. You misunderstood what it is.
It's a program that's like been hoarding fuel and resources and
coms devices and bunkers and things like that and those all
exist 100% and they're really bad.
They're government. Like when I lived at Kirtland
Air Force Base, There's continuity government buildings
there, and they're underneath the mountains.
And we had this deal where they trusted the drinking water and
everyone was like, oh God, the drinking water at Kirtland Air
Force Base has more arsenic than anywhere else in the United
States. And you're like, that doesn't
seem like a good thing. I probably don't want to drink
all that arsenic. And then they also had this
other story that happened like a couple of weeks later in the
base newspaper, 500 million barrels of oil are missing from
the Jet Propulsion, you know, stores that we keep.
And you're like, oh, that seems like a problem.
They've been missing and and someone's been slowly stealing
it since the 1950s. And you're like, oh shit, that's
a big operation. 500 million barrels of oil of GP8 jet
proportion stuff. We we shouldn't have that.
And then you realize like, no, they were just government
contractors and they're shitty tanks.
The tanks have been leaching it into the groundwater and the
groundwater has more arsenic in it because it's been interacting
with whatever's in the soil. So that's that's real continuity
of government. It's still government.
It's still garbage. It's not secret plans.
It's not John Connor. It's not Skynet.
It's like, you know, people that build stuff at a low contract
rate and do a bad job and no accountability and nobody
X-rayed the tanks. And that's real.
But there is a real program, and I could see where you start
thinking what that program could be used for if you didn't know
because the publicly available data is not something that you
understand. Like you say that two or three
or 4° off, Think about your think about your rifle shot
that's off by three degrees. That's not too big a deal.
At 50 yards, no big deal. You're still hitting paper.
Take it out to 1000, though, and you're in the mountains, man.
You're. Still hitting it, are you?
Not a three or 4° off, you're not.
No, not 3 or 4° off. You might be.
I'm just saying you take a you take an aim that's that far off
at a short distance, you're still hitting the paper.
But once you start. Yeah, you start adding that that
variation and you're and you're, you know you're misaligned 0
which is what these people are dealing with.
Like I said, it's an anchor. That's not true.
So they're adding things that like you said, it's correct.
There are elements of a lot of truth in all these things.
There is a, you know, there is a queue clearance.
That's a real thing. I could have got it if I needed
it. I just didn't have a need to
know. I worked with Department of
Energy and I didn't need to know anything about the nukes, but if
I needed to, I would have got it.
So what? That doesn't mean you know all
the secrets. Just means you know stuff about
energy. It's just not the thing.
Compartmentalize. Compartmentalize.
Always.
Which is why so many people have so little That that's the
weirdest thing about my situation is that I was able to
see so many different compartments only because I
traveled along to a lot of field offices.
I saw all this weird stuff that I that most people don't because
I wanted to be there. Maybe because God put me into
that spot. I touched more major events than
I have any reason to have touched.
I know more about more cases than I should have known.
But doesn't mean I have a perfect picture.
Doesn't mean that you have a perfect picture.
Even if you have visibility into one sort of architectural
problem. We we're just all pieces of it.
And then when you start relying on yourself that that my truth
version, right versus the the truth.
We're we're all trying to approximate the capital T truth,
I think. Well, I think we're trying to
figure out how we solve this problem without violence.
I know that we're that I'm interested in that.
I think. I think good hearted people are
and I I think that actually goes this circles back to the thing
we started with and this maybe is your experience in the Middle
East. It's my instinct and I'm curious
if you believe the same. My instinct is that my neighbor,
even if my neighbor thinks Joe Biden is a wonderful man and
he's a a great grandfather and a terrific president, that person
is not my enemy. Correct.
I don't believe that Americans are my enemy, and so I can't
accept that. They might believe that I'm
their enemy, but I actually can deal with that too.
But I think, I think we're so far, we're being divided, and in
reality we all probably have 6575% of the same beliefs if we
were being really honest about it.
And that doesn't mean we have to fight each other.
That means we just don't agree on everything.
Well, and and so this is, this becomes a very difficult part of
who is our enemy. That's the question.
And I think that this is where we have to really settle in on
and look, I know what it feels like to everything's a a nail
and I'm the hammer, right? Because I was blessed with
gifts, right? And it's in a stupid amount of
either I'm just too stupid to be afraid or just I have.
I lack fear, right? Institutional fear.
I just don't have it. But once we know who the enemy
is, once we once we have articulated that these are our
enemies, that that this rotted institution of government, that
that Ur Gernan or whatever his name is, the the judge for
Trump. That's a really bad person like
that. That that person does not
epitomize American values and he is a judge.
And then then you can start to basically build a.
All right, here is here's the apparatus and here are the rot,
the institutional rot we have in that environment.
And then how do we fix that? Because when you start to fix
the rot from, you know, just pinpointing the rot, OK, let's
get rid of this rod, let's get rid of this rod, let's get rid
of this rod. You can start to actually create
progress where you don't have to.
I don't have to stand on the other side of a of a of my
American brother and sister. Now we're starting to figure out
that you have the Americans on one side and you have the
institutional rot and these these these camp enslavement.
I'll call them brown shirts. The people that are on the
Republican side and the Democrat side because they're both the
same. They're identical that they are
the ones that we look at and say you know that we should evict
them and we have we have a way to do that but how do we if they
keep us all divided then that we we basically it's a gladiatorial
sport. We are literally their muse.
We are providing them with entertainment.
Well, they are making money on our flesh and sending it to
foreign countries to kill other women and children and create
bloodbaths and and you know, meat grinders like they're doing
in Ukraine. It it almost had this this
instinct about that three 4% off and if you take that that three
4% off let's say from the 80s. I don't know when our when our
American Society peaked, but it, I don't know, somewhere between
the 1950s and the 1980s it was, it was, it seemed like it was
tracking better. There was less racism, there was
more cultural acceptance. You could pretty much do
anything you wanted. There was more cocaine in the
80s maybe, but whatever. There were things going on.
People were making money. There was an instinct that
people still thought America was the good guy, all that.
And then somewhere between then and now there you don't have to
have a full deviation but some percentage off three, 4% off
mark. And the people that that are,
the quote UN quote enemies are the ones that are fighting to
continue the status quo of today of 2024 America versus the
people who want the status quo of, I don't know, 20-30 years
ago. And yeah, no, I think you're
absolutely right. Like and I believe I've.
Had people tell me that 1995 might have been the high point
for this country, you know, look, I'm in high school at that
point, but somewhere in that range, you know, somewhere in
the in the early 90s, you know, we had nothing but integrated
television. I didn't know the difference
between a black person and not a black person when I was watching
it. I don't remember race being a
problem. Everybody had a pretty good
standard of living. Most people had some decent
things. Poverty was just, you know,
disappearing around the globe in a lot of ways.
We had all this ability to do it.
There was a pretty good sense of it.
The Cold War is over and we had that hope where we thought we
were still the good guys, you know, even if we were the bad
guys. A lot of that stuff, even if it
was fake they always say in the military false motivation is
still motivation like fake hope because you believe in something
that's not real is still feels good and it and it can still be
a virtue if that's the thing. Even if it the thing you believe
in is not real if you're if you're acting positively in it.
There's no Henry story about it called the Saint.
You know, behaving as a St., even if you're not a St., will
bring about a saintly visions. It will turn you into a St.
And a lot of people had that in the in, I don't know, early,
late 90s as it kind of went through.
And then, man, we've gone. We've gone far astray from that
in the last 20 years, 25 years do.
You know what the largest amount of anger you can get out of a
population is, or a person individually.
I don't. Betrayal.
It's a strong word that I've been using a lot in the last
couple weeks, so carry on, keep telling me Warren.
So betrayal is the one thing that creates hopeless rage.
Because you can't comprehend it. You can't.
You can't quantify it.
You don't know how deep it is. You don't know how long it's
been there. Everything about you that
betrayal becomes becomes a questionable environment.
And so from there, from that distrust, everything blooms into
distrust because that betrayal is blind.
Well. Betrayal.
Yeah. Betrayal by its nature doesn't
happen to a from a stranger. It has to happen from someone
that you trust. So it can only be the
undermining of trust. And so you talk about the trust
of institutions. And now you have families.
You have thousands of families that are adversely affected by
by J6. By January 6th, you have, you
have thousands of people that are adversely affected by the
things that they're doing inside of inner cities when they give
illegals benefits and they walk over the bodies of veterans and
people in impoverished communities.
It's it's a betrayal that then becomes it.
You can articulate it, you can see it, you can smell it, you
can taste it and no one is left untouched.
It's your doctor that tells you that I'm going to give you this
thing that makes no sense and you have to get it if you want
to be part of my practice. And by the way, I know your kid
is 6 months old, but this is a important experiment we're all
going to do together. It's like that's betrayal and
then, God forbid, a negative outcome of which many people did
untold numbers. So then the betrayal leads to
and and that's why I believe it's all purposeful.
Like I'm a math, I'm, I'm for me, it's all math.
I look at it and I go, OK, so betrayal is the thing that
everyone feels. And you can you can have
conversation with people because the other side of betrayal is
accountability, right. When you, when you're betraying,
you want some accountability. You want someone When they do,
when they wrong you, you want to be able to have a consequence to
them wronging you. That's the that's the
fundamentals. That's the fabric of society.
That's that is actually the fabric that people pull down on.
Hey, look, I know this happened, but there has to be
accountability. That's why you have forgiveness.
But we don't have any accountability.
We don't have any consequences. They're acting with impunity.
Betrayal is still happening, Happens every day.
We read about it. We see about it.
We have people that go out there and they do the hard work.
I was, I was watching someone kind of attack you for having a
a thought and about President Trump.
And he said something and you said something about what he
said and it went straight to your throat and they went right
at you. And you're like, all right,
let's talk about this. Right.
And the reality of it was, is that you were being a thought
leader. And then they were like, oh,
you're betraying Trump. It it it, it, it went straight
to the one thing of oh, no, you. I'm going to check you.
I'm going to hold you accountable because nothing else
around them can be held accountable.
No, that's true. I I, I I couldn't figure out
what the, I mean I don't know what the mechanism is and that
may be it. It may be that I have no
accountability but you're within the camp and I can reach you.
You know, the fact the matter was is I was right.
This is this is not, this is not.
You know, the answer is, is we hold everybody accountable that
we can and we don't have to do it in a mean way.
And I'm not mean. I'm.
I'm actually very loving about it.
I don't have any sort of instinct one way or another
about Donald Trump except when he says something that's wrong,
I say it's wrong. And when he says something
that's right, I say that's right.
So I'm not emotional about it. That's the easiest thing for me.
And if people attack me about my thoughts about it, I know far
more like feel free to lay it out.
Somebody attacked me the other day about something very funny.
They said, how dare you defend this, this United States Secret
Service uniform Division officer that draw that drew his gun down
on somebody that was on fire. What do you know?
And I said, well, let me just tell you this, I'm more than
happy to learn that I'm wrong. But I would like you to lay out
your credentials in emergency medical services, which I have
some in that. I'd like you to lay out your
experience in the tactical environment as a as a military
member. And I'd like to lead you to lay
out your law enforcement credentials because I've got all
of those and I've been a paramedic in all three of those
and also a civilian. So lay out what your credentials
are and then I will be. And you know, I'm not trying to
like do any D measuring here, but I'm just saying lay them
out. Let me know what your
credentials are so I can evaluate your opinion and then
tell me why you think I'm wrong. And if you're not going to
respond to that, I'm going to assume that you that we're done
with this conversation. I'm not telling you I know
everything. I'm just saying I'm coming from
a pretty credible point of view. And I've got a fairly, fairly
competent processor up here that takes in information and
remembers and processes things based on what I'm seeing.
And that was a response that was reasonable anyway.
We're not in a place where people are doing that
discussion. Everybody is emotionally
reacting. They are having that amygdala, I
I call it amygdala porn, which is to say fear based.
It's an emotional fight flight. It's a sympathetic, nervous
response. It's either you're with us or
against us. Those are all false dichotomies.
That's not the way that Americans live, not the way that
I grew up, not the way you grew up.
It's like, hey, is there middle ground here?
And you found it in the Middle East.
You've probably found it in every community you've ever
been. And that's just the way it
works. We're not all one thing or
another. I think common ground is that
one thing we have to be able to work on.
And I and I I feel like I'm challenged now more than ever,
'cause I went, I went in both directions.
I went anti anti Muslim, anti Middle East to wanting peace and
reconciliation between Muslims, Christians and Jews to add
relationships with people on the in the Jewish community.
And then having to look at the fact that part of my family is
Jewish. And then I look at what happened
to the Palestinians and I have to I have to have empathy for
them And I. So I find myself in the middle
of this whole deal saying can we just be for humanity and can we
all have an effective voice where we're able to speak that
truth and it be heard. But unfortunately, that's not
the way it happens. And they've created an
environment where you're only allowed to think one way or see
it one way. Or they will write bad articles
about you, they'll put a Wikipedia page about you and
they will destroy your life and they will do anything and
everything they can to you. Because there is no
accountability. There's no instrument by which
you can go into a rotted apparatus of of the judiciary
and hold them accountable, but they can hold you accountable
and destroy your life and they get pushed through as if it's
just a a stream. So here's the heavy question,
then. Does America survive all of this
in your No, as a clairvoyant. Now until unless we can learn
density and the idea of my fear is that because of the because
of the limits that they have or I should say that they don't
have the hardest part about being in this fight and this is
a fight this war and it is a war is not becoming the very thing
that you're fighting against. But when you get to the point
where that it becomes an untenable environment, then it
only takes one spark in the middle of the forest.
And we are right now at a place where it is so hot, so hot.
And so we are. I tell people we have to do
those four things. We have to pray first.
We have to stand up. We have to speak.
We have to then act with the act in that faith.
James 226. Active faith without works is
dead. And and by the way, I tell
people that John 316 is not the most important 316 first, John
316 is more important than John 316.
You know what that says? Tell me that's I'm just
paraphrase it. Be prepared to lay down your
life in the service of others. Be prepared to sacrifice your
life for others. Other generations knew this.
Yeah, we've lost it. We've lost the, we've lost the
ability to understand what truthfulness is because they
would tell us that we can cut little boys penises off and that
becomes a girl. And we would let them tell us
that the border is closed when an actuality is open.
We allow them to rape and pillage.
And you have a daughter, correct?
I. Have 3.
OK, I'm going to ask you a question.
Option one, I know it's your it's your podcast and I'm asking
these questions. Here's my two.
You you can do one of these two
things. First is and you're gonna get
mad at me for saying this. I already know you're gonna get
mad at me for saying this, even if it's underneath rage.
I'm gonna ask you for forgiveness up front.
OK, but I have you on 2 screens. By the way.
Some people on back to the two screen.
I love it. Your daughters can be raped
every day for the rest of their life.
That's choice 1A. Choice two is you can do
something about it. And they only get raped once.
Choose. Yeah, my, you know my answer
already. I'm killing everybody that's
coming for it. Those those choices are not
acceptable. Yeah, not acceptable.
So we have to shift the paradigm.
We have to break out of it. And linear thinking says one
thing. These are your two options.
The answer is no, these are not my two options.
So interestingly and and I do think people are put between two
terrible positions, the position you ever read the the book
Ender's Game, you familiar with that one?
Put it on your list. Ender's Game is one of the
greats. It's a great sci-fi.
It's won every sci-fi award, but it tells it.
It tells incredible truths about human beings in leadership.
One of the great things that happens at the end of Andrew's
game, without giving away the whole story, is essentially
there's a lesson that is that is taught by human behavior, which
is that human beings act in self preservation and rationally in
every single human life is a value, and every single human
life should be protected and defended.
And that's something you can basically set your watch by.
The human beings will do what's best for them, for the
individual, right up until people start laying on grenades
and do the thing that is best for the society and their
brother and their fellow man. Laying down that life, like
right up into that is an unpredictable behavior, and it
happens at moments of extreme duress.
It happens at moments when we are pushed to an envelope that
nobody expects. The answer is 2 untenable
situations. We're going to run and maybe
none of us will ever walk again. We're going to lose our legs or,
you know, we're going to die. Or your body jumps on the
grenade or take or dive into a machine gun lesson, stop the
machine gunner but dies trying while doing so.
And it gives you enough time to get past and get behind it and
move on. You know all the things that we
see in these wartime theaters that are extraordinary acts of
valor. I It's real.
It's it's also like the most unpredictable thing.
If you looked at and you studied it as a mathematical system
where you said this is what happens and this is how it
works. If you were a penetrating
logical mind, you would say I set my watch based on exactly
one thing, based on years and years and multiple interactions
and and read the book and you'll see exactly how they set this up
right up until somebody does something that you cannot
fathom, something really sacrificial.
And and that's built into us too.
There's also the instinct to kill everything around us, the
genocidal switch, which happens in other places.
And you know there are instances of that happening.
So it can go both ways. It can go to self sacrifice or
it can go to, you know, horrific homicide.
And interestingly, I think that we are feeling that moment come
up. I don't know what it looks like,
but I'm remembering you said that these people pissed you
off. They write these horrible things
about you and they're, you know, people do and I have similar
experiences. I've seen my friends treated
poorly. I've got a buddy who's he's a
really brave guy. He's a special person I met in
the military and one of the things he always tells me he
gave me a couple life lessons. But one of them is whoever
angers you, owns you. And I try to remember that when
I'm pissed, when I'm online and people are writing shitty things
about me, because I bet you're like me.
I don't want anyone to own me. I'm not willing to give up my
sovereignty or my agency. Like you don't get to decide
what I'm going to do. So if you're mad, if you're
making me mad, I also have a role in that.
And that my role is that I chose to read it and then emotionally
react and then act on that in a bad way.
Or I can just absorb it and try to turn it back around.
Like, how do I do judo with my own mind, which is redirecting
that entry. How do I do that?
Jiu jitsu move right the the, the takedown.
How do I take your energy and just go like, Nope, I'm going to
turn into a big old hug buddy. You can't take me.
I'm sneaking behind there. We're going to have a little nap
together. We're going to sink one in here
and do the karate joke. I don't, I don't know how it
always works, and I definitely fail at it, but I feel like
that's what we're actually called.
Maybe you feel the same. No, it's really funny you say
that because that's that's the hardest thing for me is my
strength is my strength. And I just, I tell people, you
want to come at me, come at me. I mean, come on.
And and I guess I'm inviting what I don't want, like, I don't
want violence. I don't want it.
I'm ready for it, though. And so I'm just like, let's just
get it over with. Like I just want to get to that
place where I'm like, I know these people are weak.
I know that Americans are stronger, more resilient, more
courageous than what they're showing us.
But they keep telling us you have choice one and choice two
and we keep taking them. We keep taking those choices.
There is a choice three. There is.
You just have to own it. You have to be willing to make
those selfless sacrifices. And I just believe that if we
can get to that place where we're going to stand together
and have those conversations and build a fraternity and talk
about what's best, even if it if we even if I have to give up
everything, even if I got to put all my chips in the middle and
it means I eat ramen noodles for the rest of my life, at least I
will have my dignity and the thing that God judges you by,
which is character. The rest doesn't matter.
Yeah, it's hard. I think more people want that
than not given the opportunity, but most people are.
So it it takes them two hours just like we just did.
It takes them two hours to, it takes them two hours to get to
that spot of of softening each other of it.
You know, whether like a boxing match or anything else, like it
takes a long time to get to know what your enemy is about.
And at the end of it, and this is the other brilliant lesson,
which is incredibly difficult for most people the minute that
you actually understand your enemy, this is an Ender's Game
piece. Again, this is stuff that I
learned when I was in, like, I was a little kid, and then I
studied it again as a theology text when I was a sophomore or a
junior in college. But the minute that you actually
understand your enemy is, and the only way to really beat the
enemy is to actually understand them, the way they understand
themselves, which means that you love them the way that they love
themselves. So that's an incredibly strong
Christian message. It's also really, really
difficult to do. Like what's harder than knowing
when when when we're told to, like, love our enemies, it's
because you have to understand your enemy the way they
understand themself and then love the things about themselves
that they love. Because it's like it's easy to
find the things we hate. We see those right away we're
like, Oh yeah, I hate your face. I hate your hair.
I don't like your jacket. You know I hate the way you did
this. I like the way you chew whatever
those things are. We all see those things
everywhere. Those are those are right on the
surface. It's the the human contact that
we have that's man. It takes forever.
It's a lifelong challenge for all of us anyway.
For those of you like I'm just like you.
I'm like, I can see it and I'm and my strength is my strength.
And my rage burns pretty bright. Like, that's the secret.
Just like the Hulk, right? We're always angry.
Yeah, just just just give me a chance to pull the trigger.
It's already been pulled. You.
Just don't put me there. Don't put me in the place where
I have to become the Hulk. But if you get me there, I'm
ready for it. I'm ready for.
It yeah. And that's not going to save
this country, I don't think. No, it's not.
I will, I will tell you right now it's not.
And that's the one thing I'm trying to peel myself back from,
is that how do I, how do I use all the those the gifts?
Because it really is a gift, but my life has been like one big
holy shit, right? It's like, all right, here, you
see this? OK.
This is what drives me. You can't see this.
Dented primer. Yeah, OK, so this is back.
Before I knew that full ball rounds were not good.
You should never shoot those in your, like, for self-defense.
It's really bad. It goes through pretty much
everything. So we shoot through a house,
it's going to go through two other houses before it stops.
So I got to that point where I was defined by money.
I was guilty of the way that I live my life and I just decided
that I didn't want to live my life that way anymore.
But I didn't want my kids to be poor.
So I equated all the things that I have in my life that were good
to money and I left out everything else.
This is after Jesus. This is after.
This is literally like, I'm like, I'm committed my life to
Jesus. I'm like, but now I think to
myself, I'm going to do the morally right thing to do.
I'm going to take my life. I have a life insurance policy
and I'm going to turn that over to my kids.
I'm going to write my kids letters.
I'm going to leave behind a legacy.
They're going to do really well. I haven't pictured my mind.
They're going to go to school. They're going to do great
things. So I I sent my wife out to get
her nails done, laid down, plastic called.
My friend said don't let her back in the house and it's been
a great life. I sat there and I loaded my gun
and I put the gun in my head and I pulled the trigger.
That's the bullet that has been on my desk and everybody that my
my partner's been with me for 12 years.
He. He, my business partner and Co
founder, I when I first got in there, he picked it up and he's
like what what is this? And I go, this is, this is my
why I'm on borrowed time doesn't really matter to me.
I just want to do something different.
I want to make sure that this matter, this that that, this,
that that that I didn't make this go somewhere that I've been
given a chance to do something because I wasn't done.
So anyway. Tavi there's AI mean, I feel
like it's Hollywood, but Denzel Washington has a moment in that
Man on Fire movie. Same story.
You know what he says? He says a bullet always tells
the truth. I don't know if that's true or
not, but you know what it tells you.
You're not you're not done yet. So maybe they're right.
I don't. I don't think you're the only
person that's ever had that experience.
No, I'm not. I'm not.
It doesn't make me special. It just makes my.
It it's a pretty small fraternity of folks, though, I I
imagine so. Yeah, I bawled like a baby.
Literally all the things come through your head of what you
were going to leave behind. Yeah, I I believe there's
something to those people that have survived jumping off the
San Francisco Bridge. Did they get halfway down?
And they're like, why did I do this?
That was dumb. It's a permanent solution to a
temporary problem. Yeah, so.
And then I went on to do great things and been blessed
immensely. My life has been freaking
amazing. It's a heavy.
That's a heavy. There's there's nowhere we can
go from that, Joe. That is that's the deepest
moment you can share. So I I do appreciate you sharing
it and it's intense. If people want to, yeah, people
are going to want to hear more about it.
Where can where can people listen to the podcast.
I think I've got it up here on a on a thing.
Is this the best? What's the best way to listen to
the podcast for you? I'll show.
Some screen Yeah, Conservative daily podcast We're on Rumble.
You can reach us on Is That Rumble.
I got Rumble up, I've got Conservative Dash, daily.com and
then we've got Your True Social, which is just that at Joe Altman
2 ends on the End of the Mann. Yeah, so that's where you can
find me. And you know, I do a podcast
every morning at 10:00 and it's on Frank's speech as well.
So we're, you know, we're trying to do some great things on
Frank's speech. We built up a bunch of things on
Frank's speech that have been really awesome and hoping to get
you on there at some point. I already told you, like if
there's a person that's going to replace Tucker.
I thought it was you, right? And not that Tucker needs to be
replaced, but you know what I mean.
Just a thought leader understands thing, reads humble
like family. Man, I got.
To work on that reading, I got to work on that reading piece.
What are? You talking about you told me
about books that I hadn't read yet.
I'm coasting on borrowed time. I'm still, I'm still treading
water right now I got to get back to reading, but that's very
kind. It's a very thoughtful thing.
And yeah, we're not, you know, we're going to continue having
these conversations. What what's the, what is the,
the theme that runs through your podcast?
If people are going to sit there and say This is why I'm going to
jump in and listen to Joe in the morning, what does it?
What does it sound like? Well, today I had George
Papadopoulos on where he was talking about what happened to
him in 2017. I'm kind of, you know, for a
long time I talked about election fraud, election fraud,
like a dog with a bone.
Now I'm just trying to work on the problem.
How do we work the problem? How do we bring people together?
I'm also the guy that'll have you know I I mentor incarcerated
men. So I have I I had one on the
show that's completely totally different.
Gang member served 1010 years or seven years of a of a 15 year
sentence and I'm trying to mentor him back into society
where that's not a scarlet letter.
So I had him on the show. So I do a lot of crazy stuff.
I just whoever I decide I want to put on, I put on and
whatever's happening I'll I'll talk about those things.
But I think the the the overarching theme is
restoration. We we finish every podcast with
a prayer and you know I'm a fiery guy so I'm I'm not afraid
to bring the heat and tell the truth and sometimes I wish I'd I
brought a little less heat. So I've been trying to practice
that, but yeah. You're going to be you either
way, Joe. You're a good man.
Thank you for spending these last what two hours and change
with me and sharing that with the audience.
Yeah. No.
We'll transcribe it. We'll we'll ask questions later.
We'll have your we'll we'll serve your turn.
All right buddy. Hey thanks for thanks for
spending the time. We'll do it on yours podcast
next. It was about time we had to
catch up on I've been I've done a couple on yours.
So I know that we need to come and do it over here.
It's. Great to see you brother all.
Right buddy, we'll talk soon. And you have been listening to
The Kyle Serafin Show. Are we the number one podcast in
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