Prepare to hear the truth from a real whistleblower, an American
Patriot, here's civil liberties, enthusiasts, Second Amendment,
Defender and indefinitely suspended FBI agent.
Kyle seraphin, ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the
Kyle Serafin show. Thanks so much for joining us
today. We have someone that I am
really, really humbled to meet and talk to some of that.
You're going to be very impressed with hearing his
personal story. And someone coming off a
fantastic personal Victory. But moreover, a really big
victory for this country. I think we have Mark Howard with
us, he's the The co founder and the president of the king's man
and he's an author or lecturer, a radio host, he's an activist,
he's too passionate Catholic and he is a recently acquitted.
A Victor over the Department of Justice on a really really awful
prosecution of the face act which is going to be 18.
USC, 2 48. He's the father of is it seven
Mark, is it seven kids? Seven kids just a champion out
there bringing more people into the world and teaching in
raising them, right? I'm Of welcome you on.
Thanks so much for being on this show and thanks for being here.
Well, to come and talk to us. Thanks Kyle.
Good to be with you. So I was talking to my daughter
today about us having this conversation and she said, you
know, Dad who he talked to my daughter's 5 she's my oldest and
I said I'm going to talk to a man who got arrested by Dad's
old work. And she said well, why would
they do that? And I said, well, he was
protecting his son and she said from from a bad kid and I said
no no from a grown man and She said, that's disgusting.
So a five-year-old even knows that it's disgusting.
That somebody would come after kid, and get involved in it.
We're going to get into your whole story.
I want to just start with. Where did you grow up?
If you've been at a lifelong Catholic or your cradle
Catholic, or are you a convert and and kind of how did you end
up here? Sure, I have a cradle Catholic
and I grew up in Southeastern Pennsylvania, in Bucks County PA
just outside of Philadelphia and yeah, like I said, cradle
Catholic raised youngest of four.
Or private Catholic school education, my whole life played
college football pursue professional football for a
little while and then actually worked in juvenile justice for a
while and then became a teacher and taught for about a year
before I went into full-time Ministry in the pro-life
movement. What were you teaching
curiosity? Yeah I taught High School,
French Middle School? French?
That was not what I would have guessed but that I like it.
You seem like a pretty big guy. What did what position do you
play when you play football? I was a free safety. 6-foot 215
pound guy. Okay, when I saw the videos
actually, when I saw the first pictures of you with your family
which was beautiful, there was a whole, you know, there's
obviously a lot of like, promo pictures of you around the Altar
and things like that. And some of the different place
that you've been doing industry, and you didn't look like the
kind of guy that I was going to go and pick a fight with.
I generally try to stay within my weight bracket and you look
Like you got some meat on you and that you're probably not a
stranger to contact it. Shocks me that this guy decided
that he's going to go pick on a kid but I guess that's what
bullies do. Yeah, yeah, you know, I seen
this man for 20 plus years, he's not afraid to have a little
banter in this case you know after probably 40 some
encounters with him and my son on this particular day, he was
just more interested in pushing an agitating and of course he
violated the Some space of my son and then he started to
harass my son verbally, which, of course, I directed him not to
do that and continue her head till he just wouldn't stop.
And then eventually, the encounter you saw on the on the
film or the video and you guys weren't even near the clinic
entrance which is really amazing to me that they just, I mean,
that's how we know this was such a political persecution.
And I'm just speaking to somebody who, if they had asked
me to go put this case together. I look at it and I go now, it's
not the air. Like that's that's not there.
You could just see it from looking at the Camera angles, we
saw some Shock that they decided to go do it.
I mean, you must have been shocked as well.
Yeah, we are 50 feet from the entrance and minding our own
business. There were no women leaving the
building at that time. No women even coming in.
So, it was just a deliberate act on his part to provoke a father,
and it became about my rights as a father.
Then it became about First Amendment rights at this point
and even the face act violation. Sure.
No, I mean, that's I think that's number one, I made the
same call. It's the people.
I said you know if somebody came after my kid like that, like I
thought you were very restrained.
I thought you were that was a very gentle way, especially if
you had a head of history. With, as I said, I don't know if
the guy would have been breathing if you came up from
and the things that I heard was said even in and of themselves,
they cross the line. They would cross the line with a
lot of grown-ups, let alone, you know your son, who how, what was
your son at the time? He was 12 at the time and you
know, we're home, school, home, school family, so, you know,
that he's not used to hearing some of the vulgarity that he
hears, but But nonetheless, I'm able to process that for him.
On this particular day, he was nervous.
He was getting uncomfortable. I could tell he was
uncomfortable and, you know, I had to protect his little heart.
Yeah, that's your job. I mean, that's really, that's
the only reason that we're out there in the world.
I had a guy reach out to me on Twitter the other day and he
said it, you know, the world is so scary and so crazy that I'm
worried about bringing children into it and I said no would like
go out there and find someone. You love and start making some
babies man. Like that's the only reason that
you have any skin in the game because if you're not part of
the, you're not part of the solution.
And look at that, like What's the point, right?
I mean, what's the purpose of trying to make this world
better? If it's, if it's not for the
Next Generation? I don't know what would motivate
people. Hmm, interesting.
Yeah, you know, we're open to life and, you know, we're very
pro-life. I think the kids down to, to the
clinics and they've had exposure there.
And as a homeschool dad, that, that's a homeschool lesson that
day, you know, been fighting the culture War, so engaging in that
battle explaining to them, right in the neighborhood of
Philadelphia. You know, there's a lot of
things there that are dead, may not want to bring his son too.
Or even his other children but there's a greater good in it and
I think my son got that and of course, we're in prayer.
We know it's a spiritual battle. So it's a, it's a prayerful
experience and it's taken him right up against the enemy so he
can see what it looks like. So he knows, you know, the
battles that he's going to have to fight when I'm gone.
That's true. People can't see it but Phil is
nodding along and he also agrees so.
So I guess the question is you take one child at a time?
When you do this you talk about it being a homeschool lesson.
There's obviously a lot going on.
Any given Street in Philadelphia, on any given time,
is that something you want to be able to have direct access to
one at a time? Or you guys go in bulk or how
does that work? Yeah, I've taken I've taken all
seven of them at different intervals but that usually a
couple times not too often all of them because it's a lot to
manage. But my son has choir rehearsal
every Wednesday and that's the Wednesday that I go down.
So it's just, it's more of a logistical thing, where, you
know, he's got practice. So we take them there and he's
part of the Philadelphia, boys. Wired, which is a renowned
choir. So he is in a sense, a choir
boy. And you know, that's the poster
child, you know, and he's a good kid and you know he wouldn't
have it any other way. He wants to be there.
It's a great. It's a very special day for him
and his dad, a lot of good time in the road.
We're in the car for two hours in the way down to hours, on the
way back. So it's a special day for us on
that particular day. What was the conversation like,
on the way back? Because I mean, had he seen you
get physical with somebody before like that?
No. I think that's the first time
he's witnessed that suddenly up close like that.
Yeah, that I think we went right after that Kyle to pray actually
actually. After after the man, I pushed
him away from my son, we went and we had some spare time when
we did a holy hour, we actually grab some lunch.
The holier than I got a tax that the Civil Affairs Department
were at the facility. So I said, Mark come on we have
to go back and then I went back and I you know, knocked on the
window of the police, the police And departments Vehicles, civil
Affairs Division. And I just said, hey, here's my
information, here's my statement and we stuck around for about
15-20 minutes and then I took him to practice and then the
ride home. I think it was pretty much.
No not. There wasn't much for the
thought on it, to be honest with you.
I mean that makes sense. It was kind of a non into that
other than, you know, something had to happen at that.
Exact moment. You got to do what you got to
do. But, you know, look like the
gentleman walked up and walked away.
Like you have a long history with him?
I didn't know about that. That's interesting.
So you know, he goes on to choir practice.
You kind of get to move on. You had a pleasant exchange with
the was it Philadelphia PD is that who was taking the
complaint from a plainclothes division?
Everything handle the First Amendment rights in the activism
and the protests and demonstrations that are in the
city and they're great guys. They're they're often and sure
took the information said. I don't think there's anything
here but he may want to press personal charges against you.
I said, that's fine. Which is exactly what.
Okay. It was a long time afterwards
that doj decided to come in and push the FBI on.
Did you have any inkling that there was an FBI case on you?
They they come in interview. You first was that part of the
experience? So we had the private criminal
complaint at the local Municipal level state level.
Sure the he lost it was dismissed he didn't show up five
days after this is April 27th of 2022.
I I get served by the doj at the sidewalk at the clinic and it
was a Target letter saying was a target of a grand jury
investigation that point. They asked me to have my
attorney, a contact them which who was a former Federal
prosecutor with the Thomas More Society?
His name is Matt Heffron, I don't know Braska and he
contacted the ausa Philly and eastern district there and said,
you have no case. My clients innocent clusters
case law in your own District against it.
But should you want to indict my client?
He's a peaceful man. No need to bring an agent out to
the highwomen. House will bring them in, no
problem. And that was it, they didn't
really say anything. At that point, they did ask for
a proper for me to come in and ask some questions my former
Federal. Prosecutor said, absolutely not.
They're nice evidence. So so we didn't hear anything.
August 20, 22 Kyle. I get a call from the same
attorney and says, have you heard from the assistant us
attorney? I said, well, we'll know why
would I have heard? He said, well, she won't return
my phone calls. So, when we got rated on Friday,
September 23rd, that was the next time I even heard anything.
So it had been about 5 months. It's so crazy to and and you'd
already made the the offer out there saying that you be happy
to do a surrender that you be happy to come in, should they
ask which would be very common for this sort of situation?
Did they do they use a criminal complaint as a as a device to
come out there and do the arrest warrant?
Or did the judge actually authorized the arrest at your
house like that? You know.
So what I understand it was a bench warrant II when they came
to my home at 6:45 in the morning, they banged on the door
didn't even now announce who the Were which I don't think is
standard procedure, but they banged and open the door or said
to open the door rather. And I was putting a quiche in
the oven and getting the kids. Ready for Co-Op then you have
real men, eat quiche, right? That's right.
That's true. So wife and children are still
asleep. It's dark o'clock and I said
well, who is it? And they said it's the, it's the
FBI and they banged again open up the door.
And I said, okay, stay calm. I have seven babies in here.
Stay calm, I'm going to open up the door so I was opening up the
door, show them my hands, of course.
And I couldn't believe five agents on the porch about 50
Market. Unmarked units surrounding the
house. On the side of my house, my
daughter takes note of an agent at the back door, in their
window and then all these long guns, m---sixteens later, I
understood that, that's what they were appointed at me.
PA state troopers about 10 of those and about another 12.
Of federal agents heavily armored vest ballistic Shields
ballistic helmets and a battering ram.
They're going to take down the door if I denote but have.
So I said, what are you doing here?
And they said well, you know why we're here?
I said, actually, I really didn't because I haven't heard
from the ausa, so, I was even thinking that.
So I said, oh, you're here because I rescue babies, it just
kind of clicked in my head. And then I looked at all my
said, you wouldn't be here for you, by the way, good for you.
I looked at all of them and I said, you wouldn't be here if
the Trump Administration. She was in the white house and
they didn't say anything. No one said anything, I went
took me down. I wasn't shot.
No brought me to the ground. My wife comes down her bathroom
and she's tying it up and she says do you have a warrant for
his arrest and the lead agent who I later Learned was the lead
agent said we're taking him with or without a warrant which is
exactly what they said. My wife said we can't do that, I
knew they were going to take me into custody at that point.
And I said, can I put some socks on now?
Can I put some clothes on? I had just underwear t-shirt and
flip-flops. No, can I brush my teeth?
Now I put some deodorant on no pants.
No, they let me take my rosary, though.
Oddly enough. He eventually the lead agent
when I was in the black Suburban, she ripped off the
cover letter. I don't even think they told me
what I was being indicted for I've time, I also think is
procedure, but I don't think that was read to me, frankly.
So nonetheless, I was in custody in cuffs in front of my children
screaming at this point, my kids are screaming.
Guns are over the threshold of my front door pointed out my
wife and my children are in range of the weapons because
they're on the doorsteps there or the the steps going up to the
second floor. So that's that was my morning.
I was I was down to federal building by 8:00 a.m. that day
So I'm a father feels a father. We're both shaking our heads
about this. I mean, we've been on search
warrants. I've been on Plenty of them and
when you go on a search warrant, it's almost always the, you
know, most of them I've been to have been either drugs and
gangs. We've been up to child
trafficking stuff, you get through there and you kind of
think you're going after a riot, just bad guy.
I don't know what the brief was that these guys got well, you
know, guys and gals came and knocked on your door with, but
it's, it's kind of Staggering that nobody through the BS flag
at any point in there and just said, you know, why don't Call
him because that would be the normal move.
Like it's really easy to call people.
I love calling people up. I would call Guy up and say, hey
do you want to surrender? And they would say no.
And I say, okay and I hang up and then I would do that for a
couple days and they call me and I'd hang up on them.
And then finally, you get to the point where they call they go.
Hey man, I'm not trying to run from you.
And I go good when you want to meet, you know, it's like I'm
like, I'll just treat them like, like, a high-school girlfriend.
You just keep hanging up on him and still, they eventually want
to call you back. And I've done that before, and
it's very successful. I'm shocked.
They didn't say, a search warrant or arrest warrant when
they were banging on the door. The wall.
No, not not, not at all my wife, you know, ask for it.
And they wouldn't give it. Like I said, eventually gave it
when I got in the car. I said, please tell me.
Why did you eat 30 people here? And they said, well, sure the
driver from st. Louis said, we don't know
anything about you, and we come prepared for anything.
I said, I find that hard to believe that the FBI didn't know
anything about me. You know, where to find me on
Wednesday, down the city, but you didn't know anything about
my home. So the lead agent, didn't say a
word. So I he knew so we got To the,
to the federal building which is 100 yards from Independence Hall
the belly. After I figure, they
fingerprinted me your belly. Actually, I should say this
before I move into that the driver, we had such a good
conversation on the way they were talking about home school.
He wanted to be home, schooled dad, and he actually reaches out
his hand, he says it was a real pleasure meeting you.
It's right. So after they fingerprint me and
they belly, shackle me, they ankle shackle me and then they
cuffed me. To a table in a white room, for
about six hours in that process, you know, I'm having the
greatest prayer experience of my life answered fully into the
moment. With with my Lord, and I'm at
the foot of Calvary, they'll come in every once in a while,
we have the pre-trial. Like, are you a Flight Risk kind
of thing going on? But man, I'm just totally
surrounded my family. My kids and then the whole
situation, however, I'm kind of boggled why I'm being chained to
a table and Shackled In my ankles that are Of course it
wouldn't let me put socks on. So after six hours and then
manipulating coercing me to give up information that I was not,
they told me I didn't have, I didn't have to give up, but
there they coerced my wife to do the same thing.
After I wouldn't Quran cooperate with them about giving the names
of my siblings. I said, I have siblings in the
area, I just wasn't comfortable, giving them their names.
And so nonetheless, they pursued that.
Then I went down to the US Marshals and I was treated like
a A dog there. I mean I was I was a felon belly
Shackled. I Had To Shimmy my feet the
whole way down in the ankle shackles.
I don't know why that was necessary, you may know.
And then I was still cuffed obviously, in my hands, which is
totally. This is before you went to do,
your initial appearance. Is that what you're waiting on?
Now, I had my initial appearance before the judge via Zoom.
Just like we're doing this now and we won't, they had every
intention to release me on my own recognizance.
Which meant not a flight risk, or I wasn't, I wasn't a threat.
Sure. So, this was their intention.
They wanted to humiliate me, intimidate, me and scare me.
Scare my family. I'm going to so reckless and so
dangerous with they did was an act of Terror.
My kids could have been shot. If I my kid hadn't grabbed, one
of our airsoft guns, he would have been shot.
So we get down to the US Marshals.
And I'm finally released after about eight to ten hours and we
were reunited about 4:00 with the family.
You said, you, you basically went straight into prayer while
you were in this room. I know a lot of people have no
idea how to approach that kind of stress, that sort of, that
sort of fear, that would, that would grasp you.
I went through survival training, so, I have kind of a
different Instinct. You know, you sort of you stay
into a circle of things that you want to talk about and you do
the things that you're trained and and prayer is definitely
part of it for most people. Because if you don't have
somewhere to go with it, you're just there with your own
thoughts, which could be the worst thing in the world.
Were you were you were you distracted by what was going on?
There? Were you, you know, worrying
about what was going to happen, your family next, or did you
really just kind of Zone into the, you know, with the rosary
beads that you just Zone in and just start running through
prayer and that moment and just know that God had you in his
hands. I mean, how, how much did you
come in and out of being? Like I can only imagine six
hours sitting there just water. I know I'd be panicking about my
wife and I'm trained. Yeah, yeah, you know, I just had
a piece the whole the whole time that was beyond understanding.
Ending and I I just knew that I was unjustly suffering which is
you can handle that. If you know if you can see the
causation of your actions and the effects of all that and say,
okay but in this case I just saw the lamb to the slaughter and I
was just I prayed every mystery of the Rosary prayed, every
devotional. I could think of thought of
everything that ever suffered persecution suffering, of
course, our Lord. I was totally at Calvary.
As I said, felt his presence felt my guardian angel.
It was, it was great solace. In fact, when they enter up, Get
me to do the stuff they want to do was really a break.
That was the only time where I lost a little bit of Peace just
because, you know, they were just trying to get me to give up
information that I wasn't comfortable giving up and, you
know, but it, but regardless. No, I really look.
I've been I've been in Ministry for 20 years, so I knew when
this is the first time I dealt with law enforcement, certainly
not in this way, but I knew that, you know, this was coming
and I knew that you fight, evil long enough, you're going to
have evil push back on you. So I saw it as a gift that makes
any sense. I saw this last thing.
Yeah, I was speaking to a Catholic apologist, who writes
books for a living and he was telling me.
He said, you know, if and when somebody comes to your door,
you'll have a lot of things to offer out and so you can offer
up all of that time and that frustration, and that experience
of evil and and it sounds like you did that.
Let's talk about what your wife told you afterwards.
Because that's got to be a black hole that she saw you disappear
into and 810 hours is forever. For a worried spouse and then
especially a spouse that's taking care of your seven
children. At the same time, what was her
experience? You know, they took you away,
I'm guessing it puts you in a Suburban before and then they
want continue to search the house or what was the next now?
They actually never came in the house.
Even really some some articles kind of said that it just the
guns were over the threshold, my wife, we came out to them, the
children came to the doorstep as I could I think them the crying
screaming you know Terrorized him, don't take him.
He's my best friend. My little youngest five year old
saying that but then she took them to co-op that day because
she said, you know, being at home is going to be good for
them. I need to get him a normal day
or as much of a normal day as possible.
And of course, it would just they go stir crazy thinking
about what's going on if they didn't do that.
So and then she was surrounded by great prayer.
She was a, she's a woman that's grew up in Ministry herself.
So not that she's experienced this before.
But she certainly understands the way of the Cross and the
journey. So she had great faith through
it all, of course, she was trying to stay strong for the
kids and when we reunited she collapsed in my arms but yeah
she was very strong. She's been a rock through the
whole thing and I think that's the only way you can do things
like this. If you don't have a partner in
them in facing down, evil that that understands what the what's
being asked of you and why are you have to do it?
That, you know they don't necessarily think any of us
really know. Hi, there's so much evil in the
world or or what justifies it, you know, falling on us.
But at the same time when it does, it's a, you know, I know
that if you don't have that support that that they make it
twice as hard, especially with. Yeah, I'm sorry cut y'all cop.
No, thank you. How strong she is.
So two weeks before the trial on January, 6.
I know, we'll get into the trial, but two weeks before the
trial, actually, three weeks. I see, I went to my attorneys.
I said they're going to offer a plea agreement and they said no,
the federal government that doesn't offer.
Please. You got off early.
Ali. I said, well, I'm not going to
offer a pre a plea. So on January 6 at 5:00 p.m.,
it's a Friday of all days down, January, 26, the doj offers a
plea agreement and it comes in my 0 to 6 months.
No, no probation, requested and plead guilty to the second count
of face time. So I said, well, I'm not going
to take that but I said let me talk to my wife and then I was
just not going to take it because you're innocent.
And two. If you took it, you wouldn't be
allowed home. So that's the type of woman who
I'm married to. I love it, I really do.
Yeah, thirdly we need case law. So we're going to risk risk.
What? We need to risk for the good of
the movement. It's amazing and it does show
you. Like I said, if you don't have
somebody, who understands that, my wife had the same thoughts
about the Copic Ciao's. I said, you know, is it worth me
lose my job over this? Because we got a good job and
she said a hunt. She said, you can't get it
because I won't let you. And I don't, it's not an option.
You'd like this is not a negotiation, you're going to be
having, you know what's, right? And you know, it's like that's
that's where your heart is. Then we're all on it.
And so, you know, it does make it easier to stand against the
forces of evil and the forces of Of whatever, the secular sort of
movement, that's happening right now, in this country and the
politicization that's happening in doj.
When you got that, that second person who's got your back,
who's got? Just a hand.
They're letting, you know, like, no, no, you're not crazy.
I always feel like there's a sanity check required to.
I mean, did you ask yourself? Hey, is there any chance that I
was in the wrong here? Or do that kind of examination,
or where did you just know that? This was, this was your job as a
dad, and there's no question. Yeah, it was, it was Dad
instincts. I mean, of course, there's
always a replay of it, you know, afterwards.
And you know, and you just kind of cross check it all and then
you know, as I got home and talked to my wife about she
says, you did exactly what I would want you to do as a
father. If you're going to take my son
into the city with you and he's going to get, he's In Harm's
Way, I want you to protect him. So, you know, again just
affirming what I did, you know, you did, what I would want you
to do, you did what a good dad does.
And at that point, I think you just let it go because you're
just, you're just in you're just reacting it.
That point. It's not like a meditative
that's motive, right? If I had a motive to to hurt
this man. Then of course I'm guilty but I
reacted to him continually pursuing, my sound and harassing
him. So yeah.
That I think that was clear to the jury.
Well and like I said, I'd look like restraint from my end of
things just knowing how what tempers look like.
And like I said, the size that you're familiar mo guy as far as
just your overall size. You you work with you know your
website says you work with thousands of men you've been
teaching men Ministry for a long time.
Do you talk about things like this before?
I'm sure you do. Now, that's easy to add that
into the repertoire, but is this something you've talked about
facing down, you know, as a father and, and and maybe the
Christian and Catholic way of being a defensive and aggressive
male. And, and when you have to be
sure, great question fact, it's never been asked to me like that
before. So that's interesting.
Our mission is leader protector providers.
So we talked about, you know, engaging the cultural War.
We talk to men. About and protecting women and
children first, and then the common good.
And so, it's always been talked about in that way, and it's
certainly something I talk about.
But during this trial, or this journey to try, I was not
allowed to speak and really could not talk about the case
because it would jeopardize potentially to our case.
So I really just started adding it into the repertoire, the last
two weeks. So, it's kind of raw for me,
which is good in a way because I'm I'm, I'm Putting it all
together, right? Putting the spiritual element of
it all the unit of element of the will of God, and your will
coming together in the Magnificent moment of the
journey. So that's going to continually
grow, I think, as I talk to man, but, but, you know, we've talked
them combatives, is a lot of things.
You, we talked them, combatives, we taught them survival
training, and things like that will take them and, and it's all
Theory, right? It's all stuff that we're
proposing. It was never actually played.
It out like it did my case so you know it's actually new
material for me, I would say. But it's yeah, I went, I guess
there's something, you know, the military does a thing called
stress inoculation, and if you've been teaching this for
this long, the stress inoculation is that we give you
a taste of stress in a controlled environment.
We talk you through it, you go through the thought, process of
it, and then when you experience it, nobody Rises to the moment,
they fall to the level of their of what they've considered.
Now, it's one of the reasons why I think of Fell so far backward
in 2020. Is that nobody had prepared.
Where's the Line in the Sand? Do I know where it is?
Do I know how many steps back I can back pedal before I have to
plant and so many people walked right over where their line
would have been if they had time to think about it.
And in your case, it's exactly that it's like, look, I'm
willing to have somebody say, a couple things but the minute
you, you start defending the very gentle heart of my of my
child. Who's it's my only purpose on
this world. You step into that space and and
then, whatever happens next, you don't have to plan it.
You've already decided like you've snapped what we called
flipping the switch in the military, but once you flip the
switch, you've just engaged. What of that program is in your
program is protect. We you say, again, the roles
that you said that, you teach men a little bit slower.
Just so I could get a schmear? Yes, sure.
So, so in the years that I've been doing this, we kind of
defined men and their roles As Leaders protectors and
providers. And so that's at bills off the,
the supernatural priest prophet and King, you know, the priest.
Sacrifices, he lays his life down, a leader, lays his life,
he's a servant leader, you know, the king he's, he's looking out
for the common good those in his custody and he provides for
them. And of course, you know, the
prophet, you know, he he's the voice of God, he's the
mouthpiece of God. And so, he's giving prophetic
words and words are are going to lead to, to either salvation or
lead to damnation, you know. So there's a protective element
of that to wear. He's like do this or else.
So but we really try to chunk it for men.
In a more understandable way. Leader, protector, provider, do
you think that there's a lot of men that don't have any
experience with any of those roles and that that you're what
you're proposing them is new to? Or is it something that they
feel deep down but they don't have a lot of training in know
that men are the they don't have any training in this at least
catechetical e, they don't from a religious education
standpoint. Zero because I had zero when I
have 22 years of private Catholic Education.
So, right. And then, of course, you know, I
got the football Acumen. I got the athletic Acumen, which
gives you a great degree of of training in the sense of, you
know, working towards something. But but frankly, I can't
translate defending my Endzone to defending my son, quite the
same. So it's really something.
I've had to grow in to myself because I didn't have a father.
He passed away when I was 11. So, a lot of men that are
growing up with passive fathers, fathers were a feminized
emasculated in the culture and, and emasculated frankly by their
spouses. So they really come to us, not
sure of themselves questioning themselves and certainly this in
a, in the false feminine world that's out there they would
might even take pause hearing some of the words so we really
have to you know help them understand and really grow into
that into those roles and The lens of Christ and, and help
them see almost kind of defended that way.
And then, of course living it, you know?
And so now I'm living it, you know.
It has more, as more tangible feel for men, I'm sure you have
no, definitely. I have to agree with that.
You're you're speaking my language.
My dad's father actually passed when he was about 11 or 12.
And he told me when I was very young, that the only thing that
he dreamed of doing when he grew up starting from the time, he
was a, you know, an early teen was being a father and being
there for his children. My dad has six children, I'm one
of six so I'm at the top end of the oldest ones and we've got
three right now. But so I feel you that there is
a lot of that lacking and I was very fortunate that, you know,
my father is 72 years old and still runs a chain saw and has a
kind of a physicality about him. We're always shoveling things
and moving around and he's, you know, he's a man who goes and
works out in the gym every day at, you know, 72, which is not
nothing. That a lot of men are looking
for, in this culture, they're sitting behind a desk and
they're typing, and they've put the values and money and And
what not, but not necessarily in those those very Primal
masculine role. So I think it's interesting when
you stepped in and you are now kind of representing.
You said it's wrong for the last couple weeks since you're just
now getting able to talk about it.
Sure, we're you working curriculum.
That you were kind of thinking that is going to go into your,
your, your seminars and your speeches and just using that as
a way to keep your mouth shut when you have to not talk to the
media because it's I know it's very hard to not speak when you
know that there's things that are going on, people are saying
things wrong and they're getting your story inaccurate and all
that. Yeah, it took a lot of
self-discipline took a lot of self-mastery to just bite my
tongue and even the trial is just an exercise in that because
you know, they're saying all sorts of things about you and
you really, you got a jury looking at you the whole time
and you really need that. It's not a poker face but it's
the only way I can explain it, right?
You just a, you got to have almost as stoicism about
yourself that not cold, but just, you're not going to give
it a giveaway, you know, something that might make them
turn on you. So for me, I just Had to just I
entered into it through, through prayer continual prayer.
But I might one of my priest friends, dear priest, friends
married, my wife and I, he said, I want you to journal about
this, and I hate journaling. So I started journaling and I
started seeing this as the lens, or through the lens, I should
say, of the way of the Cross Stations of the Cross.
And so, as I began with my arraignment on September 27th
two leading up to the trial, it was it was this the 14 Stations
of the Cross and so for me that was a great.
Great way to throw my thoughts down.
So that's to your question of curricula or curriculum, that I
would be developing. It would be, it would be coming
from that directly because those are my ruminations on what was
going on, how I was feeling and, and I'm drawing on that.
I find myself rereading it to kind of strengthen the message,
so that you can truly give the visceral experience to men.
Not just like, oh, this happened to me?
No, I'll take you back and I'll take you exactly to how I was
feeling. I think it's very impactful
things important for people to hear.
It's probably important for me to hear myself said so I can
live it and truly embrace it because it's one thing to have a
thoughts. Nothing to have that action you
know where now you're putting it out there and people are hearing
it and then it becomes part of you.
And so that's where we're at. I think a very natural reaction
to this and I read some of the articles that were written from,
you know, journalists or Whatever they're called activist
on both sides, where you'll see, you know, it's a pro-life
activist or an anti-abortion protestors, you were framed into
very, very different lights and we had some articles we pulled
up that film, I choked, you know, Rolling Stones had one way
to talk about it and then, you know, Fox News and the Catholic,
you know, like News-Press and stuff would go the other way
with it. And, and in the meantime, you
can't say anything about it. And I think a very natural
reaction would be to be infuriated, or at least be angry
about the situation while I mean, number one.
And then also, you know, all these things, Happening and you
can't interact with them, did you?
You know, how did you because you sound, very calm right now.
And you sound like you've digested this in a very good
way, do you reflect on, you know, taking anger as as one of
the very normal human emotions and, and how you kind of
redirected that, was that part of your process at all?
These are great questions by the because no one really gets this
deep. And this is good, because now I
have a temperament, we all have a temperament is god-given.
And so, you know, my temperament I do my temperament I know, I
know my abilities to get excited and and lose temper.
If I, if I get my buttons pushed in this case, you know, I look
at his righteous anger, I'm not really looking at is like an
angry man. If I pray for Bruce love, I pray
for all the collaborators of abortion.
I pray for all those people and I have been not because I'm in
this situation because I always do and I know they're wounded.
I know that they're they're hurting and and so, you know,
there's a part of me that even hurts that I had to do that to
mr. Love, you know, like there's a
part of me that just doesn't want to do that to him but know
that I had no choice in a sense as a dad.
So you know I do reflect on that and I say, you know, if I meet
him I would talk to him and tell him how much, you know, God
loves them and nothing would change for me.
So that's truly where my heart is.
When it approaches the evil of abortion, we go to confront
evil. You really need to be disposed
of properly and I think this goes to temperament when I'm
there, I'm fasting. Okay?
I'm always fasting when I'm there, and I'm always praying
when I'm there and I'm always binding demons and, and, and the
evil that is there. So I know I'm in this spiritual
battle and I know I'm putting on the armor of God, and I know
when it comes after me that that there needs to be holy spirit.
Encapsulating it and so for me, all of this has been a gift and
all of this Happening to me. And my family has been a
blessing. I see God's hand in it from the
beginning to this conversation. I see the true Grayson at all
the disgrace in it for me. Now in the in the Articles
you'll see me as a hero or a villain.
And truth be told I'm somewhere in between, right?
I'm not, I'm not quite the villain of course and I'm not
the saying everyone wants to make me out to be.
I'm a sinner but you know I know I know that I'm on the journey
and and so This is a part of it and so this is how I become
Holier by going to the abortion Mill.
It's you were saying that when you're there, and when you say
that you're in on the streets in front of these clinics, do you
go to more than one clinic? Or is it just the one that your?
Yeah, I'll do it. I'll go to multiple clinics this
one. I like the most because I can
walk right up with the girls to the very door and I like being
able to get that close and have that conversation, but it's one,
that's the one I prefer to be at but I've been to all six of them
that are in the area. Throughout the last 20 years, do
you do see women turn away and and receive what you're saying
and make a different Choice than what they came there to do.
Does that happen? All the time.
It's, it's wonderful. I mean, it brings us to the
point where it's wow. I can be used by God as a broken
valve. Oil instrument to help save one
of his children and to hold these babies in my own home.
Have my kids, hold them to be invited to their parties and
their, their families growth as a result of choosing life.
It's just a tremendous gift to me.
And so I would say, you know, the last 20 years Has been over
probably over 100 babies, that have been saved, you know,
through my direct and indirect involvement.
That's incredible. So, and this is kind of a, it's
almost an embarrassing disclosure because my wife,
first of all, my wife grew up in Brooklyn as an atheist.
And so, I'll just kind of give you come to our little bit of
our family background had, no religion, no interest in
religion growing up and would have been, you know, a a
die-hard left of this and certainly a pro-abortion type
until until she became a mother and I didn't.
We think about it that much at all.
It wasn't a thing that was much on my radar, but honestly, the
minute that we first had our oldest daughter.
So that's about six years. Now, it changed the way that we
looked at the world in a big way and it is radically changed my
wife heart. She she was baptized at Easter
last year and became a Catholic and it's one of those really
kind of wild Transformations. You watch where, you know, my
wife watches videos about what happens during abortions now and
she sobs and I can always tell what she's been.
I'm like, why do you Do that to yourself.
And she said, I have to know, I have to know what I thought I
was supporting before and she does it almost as a Penance to
just really absorb that information.
And I think that a lot of people would assume that what goes on
and and I've been to the March for Life and I think 19 is that
when Trump spoke does that sometimes.
So my wife and I went there and I'm not a big fan of crowds, I
don't know if you know a lot of guys who have spent time in the
military and and then worked in law enforcement, but crowds are
not really a thing where into and it was the only place I felt
like, if my two children had run off and wandered around someone.
Brought it back and I would have been fine.
It was such a special group of people and there's what 500,000
people that come and walk in there and have been forever.
And so it was kind of amazing to me to see that sort of thing and
realize what this most this movement is really about and it
wasn't a movement that I was familiar with until then my wife
actually made me take leave and take the day off so that I could
go and walk there. And as we did it, it occurred to
me that so many people have this misconception that you're out
there. Either shaming or heckling
women, who are making probably the worst decision of Their
Lives. Many of whom will never live it
down, Down to themselves. And and the reality of it is
something very very different and it's offering an alternative
and then it sounds like also support a network of support.
Can you talk a little bit about, you know what, the real
experiences and what is really being offered, are not as
opposed to maybe you're shaming people down.
Sure, shit. You know, no one's ever been
converted through. Shame agreed or confrontation at
that is condemning, I mean, shames part of the journey which
shame is Old element of I did something wrong and you know the
shame before God if you will. But no one really gets anywhere
with shame at the abortion Mill. We go there and come with a
Compassionate, Heart, loving heart, a prayerful spirit.
And some of us sidewalk Council, which was what I was doing.
I feel called to do that and step into the Gap and engage
conversation. Some people don't they just a
prayer for presents and others, you know, they, you know,
they're just, they're there to hold a sign, you know, they may
just want to hold a sign and And, and be that Silent Witness
as well. But for me, I like to, I like to
engage the women. As it offers me a chance to use
my gifting to help them. Now, we're there before they go
in where there while they're in there, praying for them, and
we're there for them when they come out.
So, you know, we're there, whether they have an abortion or
not, you know, they had an abortion, we're going to offer
them healing, we're going to encourage them to name.
Their baby would encourage them to pray to their child, you
know? Yeah, those are hard things to
hear, maybe after you come out, but they're necessary to here.
First, they need to know that that child is known and it's a
top known to God and that might be a seed that's planted that.
Maybe they'll remember one day but would take them to a
Pregnancy Resource Center. If they, if they don't go in,
they have the courage not to go in or they come out because they
can't go through with it. Will go take them to a Pregnancy
Resource Center. So the movement has a lot to
offer certainly, we're talking eleventh-hour offerings but girl
takes a plant abortion pill we can still help or 24 to 48
hours. Afterwards if she changes her
mind. So we've offered a lot to them
when they're in that moment now we're certainly their way in
advance with our hot lines with our counselors with our
ultrasound machines or mobile van units.
You know, we got a lot of stuff that we can do anything even in
advance, you know, mothers, homes maternity homes.
I think everyone has that Spirit when they were there, I got two
questions in that they're not related to.
So I'm going to try to remember to come back to the second one.
The first one that I'm most curious how You open up that
conversation, you're walking on the sidewalk.
You see someone coming up. Obviously you can tell when
women are walking up so that kind of gives you an idea of the
age, brackets, got to be a clue, how do you initiate that
conversation? And and you know what's the
gamut of how? Well it goes, or maybe how bad
it goes? Yeah.
Been there for 20 years. You get you get good at
identifying who's there to go in and who's there to not?
I'd say nine out of ten women I can guess who's going in now.
I don't always get the nine out of ten that they're there for
them. Portion because Planned
Parenthood offers a lot of things other than abortion but
you can kind of get a sense for the ones that are the way
they're dressed. They're dressed a certain way.
There's support sometimes surrounding them when they come
in, there's a hesitation in their face.
So you can pretty much know who's going in there for a
procedure surgical procedure or something else.
The chemical abortion. So, so the way I approach it
Kyle is I introduced myself. I see.
My name is Mark, right? Like how else would you
introduce yourself to somebody? Not some stranger.
Don't kill your baby like that would be the worst thing you
could say. Right.
You're right about them. Hi, my name is Mark.
I have some free literature here for you.
I'm sorry you had to come here today, you know, these are some
of the things that I might say to begin that conversation and
you, I'm sure you get the whole gamut from someone who's willing
to talk to you because they're polite and they're a nice person
or someone who was going to tell you to go pound sand.
And something awful and this is a good thing gets consensus.
I'm sure. Look.
Sometimes they don't want to talk to you.
Sometimes they're there for their second and third, fourth
abortion. So they've been down this road
before they're prepped in advance by the abortion industry
to know that we're there. That's what I like to greet them
way before they get to the building.
So if I identify someone that's coming, I'm going to get to them
as quickly as possible. Maybe 100 feet away from the
building. So I have some time to build a
little bit of room of rapport with them.
And if there's a dude, I father walking with them.
Better believe. I'm going to be in his year.
Speaking to him, man to man vs. Talking to the girl because
that's where I can really speak into the heart of the situation.
Because I'm a man and I'm also a father, so I can talk to him
like a father. So, so in that regard, you know,
we you really have to be, you got to be kind of shrewd about
it. You really have to see and if
they tell you, hey, I'm not interested, then you back off.
You cannot force this, you know, it's just not going to go.
Well, if you do and, and She's asked you to leave her alone.
You leave her alone, but if she doesn't say anything, you
continue to press it a little bit.
Why? Because she's thinking about it,
she's hearing these things. I'll say you're already a mother
of your child. You're already a father, your
child. They don't think that, you know,
they think I want to get rid of what's inside me?
Hey, one more day, give it one more day.
Let's talk. Let me take you over to get you
a cup of coffee, right? So I get some food in them.
They can't have the abortion anyway, so I'll get, I'll do
whatever I can to get some food in them, you know, or get
something in Body. So yeah, that's kind of what I
do. I mean and this is those are all
sales techniques that I did corporate sales for a while, but
that's what that is your sizing up a snail.
You're, you're trying to get a small win, you talk about, get
some food in that that bumps it down the line just a little bit
and just a little bit more time. You're framing the situation
differently than maybe they were they were thinking about it.
Do you think that technology the way that it's changed?
And if you've been doing this 20 years then you know the
technology is trains changed. Ali, the ability to hear a fetal
heart tones that you know what seven weeks.
Now, that was a game-changer for me as a dad as a new dad.
And, and now it's just, you know, they've got the 3 D and
ultrasounds where you can see the face of your child over
there. You can tell this is a person.
There's no question in anybody's mind.
Who looks at it. You can't decide.
Otherwise, now, you could decide as a person that you don't want
to be in your life, that's a different animal.
But I don't think anybody can make the same decisions that
they did probably 20 years ago. You know, when I was just coming
out of high school, that wasn't a thing that people could look
at, does that play into your Or do you think does that play into
it differently? Now, I would say like a do what
you saw. I think every woman that goes in
there knows they're killing their own child.
I think they're not deceived. It's not like a clump of cells
to them. That was the old line in the 70s
and 80s, a compass child. But no, I think with the
technology all know that it's a baby and we have the fetal
models there and you know will certainly show them if a girl is
somehow confused but I know it's an inconvenience is what it is.
This is what this is what they know and this is their solution
to it. So there's really no question
that women are like confused like it's a blob of tissue or
something that doesn't exist anymore man.
Let's dig back into the trial a little bit.
I just wanted to know more about your kind of your ministry on
the street there. I think it's really relevant and
I think it's important for people to understand.
A lot of people have never seen it.
So I mean and it is a contentious issue.
It's also kind of a contentious moments But in people's lives, I
it's amazing that you choose to engage in that to me on such a
regular basis because I think that's, that's a, you know,
getting out in people's faces. That way is, it's a challenge
and it's probably something that keeps a lot of people from doing
it just knowing because they don't want to engage human
beings the same way. But I want to dive into the
trial, the you had evidence presented against you.
How did the, how did the doj case even work other than like,
there was video of it and I assume they brought up mr.
Love Sure. So so we had incredible defense
team Thomas More Society is the calvary for anyone dealing with
something like this. We got the best attorney in
Philadelphia. Brian mcmoneagle, tremendous
criminal defense attorney. He defended Bill Cosby and got
him a hung jury. So he's a talented talented man.
Nonetheless you know that was great team.
The government put on a strong argument, right?
As they will write had The number one guy for for the face
act, the guy that writes the manual for the face act and in
the second chair and then they had their lead prosecutor who
was very talented herself and of course they make the case and my
own daughter was in tears here in here in the case.
So they put on the CEO of Southeastern.
Pennsylvania Planned Parenthood, they had Bruce love.
Of course, as you mentioned, they had another woman who was
there on the her first. Volunteering the day of the
incident, another escort, they have the security detail at the
time, the head security guy, who looked at the tapes, deleted
tapes, that would have helped our case and then they had to
eye to eye witnesses that were in the community.
That didn't know anybody, but had witnessed the incident,
okay. And how did you feel?
I mean, I read an article that said, your wife said we
basically surrendered to God and said we're doing the right
thing. So we're we put ourself into his
hands and You know, we know that we hope that'll come out, right?
We believe that it will, but, but you never know you're
looking at 12 strangers. In a place that is not
necessarily favorable to to a Christian father.
Defending his son that maybe, you know, something against the
beliefs of a jury like that. It's got to be Phillies pretty
left-leaning area, right? So we'll said yeah, the 65
jurors that were the pool. Most of them were volunteers of
Planned, Parenthood. And most of them were donors to
Planned Parenthood. So when we select The jury, it
was little disheartening Tuesday, the 24th was tough day.
You know, we took the best shot that we could and we got 10
strikes. They had 76 and were seven and
yeah, we, I don't know. At the end of the day, when it
was tough, it was a hard. It was a hard day to select a
jury. Of course, I watched the whole
thing. I hear everything.
So my heart is kind of like, man.
This could go either way. This is Phil.
Yeah. And when they marched out, I
meant. It was unanimously, acquitted.
You, which is the way that it's got to go down, they didn't hang
the jury and they didn't come back out of the you're done with
this. This case now, right before they
let it go, did you have a moment of prayer where you what was
your thoughts, as you're sitting in the chair or, you know,
they'd ask you to stand up and and face the music that's going
to be right out. Right?
So yeah, I just finished piece throughout the whole trial,
peace, peace Beyond understanding.
It was A ton of prayer. A lot of rosaries were being
said myself the daily readings, you know, working very consoling
to me a lot of hymns being sung in the jury and outside the jury
in the hallway and I'm sure the jury could hear it.
But when it came time for that moment of truth, now we had to
jurors that had to be removed what was removed the first day,
because he had an economic hardship.
So the alternate was put in and then they were deadlocked on
Friday. The trial went the Tuesday to
Friday On the 27th, they were deadlocked after two and a half
hours. They judge said, come back on
Monday morning, the 30th of January 2 weeks from tomorrow
and where they say, they weren't sequester during that time,
obviously they were out just what their walk around reading
media looking at media the certainly they're told not to
but they certainly could have sure.
So by the time we left on Friday, we thought most of the
jurors were with us but he just don't know.
So when we got there on Monday, the jury had passed a note to
the judge. Judge, Gerald papert, it was
phenomenal. And they said, we have a
problem. One of the jurors is being
extremely obstinate, and targeting other jurors.
And so the judge interviewed each juror and we watch them go
back into his personal Chambers and get information.
Well, one guy was removed and then they brought the other
alternate and they made the call him.
He was out in Lancaster or wherever he lived, and lived to
call him in. So we're all waiting for him to
come. As soon as he gets there, they
They go into deliberate deliberation and within an hour
that they have a verdict and that was, wow, verdict at 3 p.m.
in the afternoon eastern time. So, no coincidence there.
And so, as they asked me, I actually sat, I thought you have
to stand, but they said, you know, Stacy the first count I
thought I was going to get convicted on the second count,
three elements. The first count for it for
elements to the, to the, to the second Camp first count, mr.
Mark, Hawk, we find the defendant not guilty.
My hands were sweating I was I was nervous for the first time
and then I truly felt my heart that you know that God was going
to give me a guilty verdict. I don't know maybe a lack of
trust on my part I just knew whatever was going to happen.
It was going to be for the best and I Was preparing my heart for
the and I said, even if I go to prison, it's for the best.
That's right, it'll be what God wants because I knew I was in
his will? I knew I was in his will, I
didn't have to doubt that and when they said not guilty, I was
relieved. I couldn't believe it.
I was like, wow, you know unnnnnnh, I was blown away, I
Was preparing my family, prepare your hearts because the view
can't argue with the video, you know, the I push them right.
I mean it's simple salt, right? At least at the very least, but
it has to be motive and that was the hardest part for the jury at
I think to wrestle with whether the easiest for them to wrestle
with. Well, and I hope that they
looked at it and saw the same thing that I saw, which was
restraint, which is to say that you went in light of you,
Evidence in light of what was said in and that moment and the
fact that you're a human being and a father, it would be really
hard to fault those sort of actions and it would have been
hard to fault more action than what you went along with.
So, I, I think I gave you an interview right afterwards
because I was being asked about it.
Obviously the FBI being involved in your case.
And I went publicly, you know, I'm speaking to people like said
work and he said, what do you think?
And I said, I'm not sure if the guy would have been breathing
and if you because I'm, I know my capacity for violence.
I spent a lot of time Writing on it, you know and you know what?
Your capability for physicality as well.
And I'm glad that you were restrained, but like I said, I
could tell you were a good size guy, just by looking at the
pictures. And I thought, man, what up?
What an interesting choice for someone to make to try to
provoke, someone that is so much, you know, so much more of
a physical danger to them, but it is a strange part of our
culture right now. And we talked about it earlier
about men growing up with some of the feminization and an
inability to grasp like what the core job of men in this world is
it's always been known. I mean, Men have always been the
ones who have been outside of the village.
Like, I always told people ask me why I enlisted.
I said well, because I did this reflection in my heart and I
thought if it was 10,000 years ago, I would have been Landing.
You know, covered in buffalo turds, waiting on the buffalo
with like my two buddies and a spear like that would have been
my job, right? Like that's what men did, they
hunted? They provided that he protected.
And for some reason, this we're in a world.
That's so divorced from physical consequences right now.
And I wonder if that's why people like like mr.
Love decided that, that was the thing.
Get engage in that was even even remotely appropriate.
Have you tried to do? Yeah, good.
Have you put yourself in his soft spot and try to figure out
what, you know, what goes on in that mind with the years that
you have been interacting? Yeah, you know, again I've seen
him for 20 years, I've talked to him for 20 years, he's been
vulgar, he's been even worse, but he just he would not let it
go. He said on the stand that he's
never been in any physical altercation in his life.
Really, it's probably only the second or third time I ever had
a physical altercation with somebody who wasn't my brother
nonetheless. He, you know, he was very
surprised by it and, you know, I guess he I guess he didn't think
it would come, it would happen. Yeah, it's bizarre.
I do feel like there's something about just being if you make it
to the age of 25, as a male and you haven't been punched in the
nose once, even if it's by brother.
And, you know, I've had a live split open by a brother, you
know, I got four of them. So it's one of those very
natural things. If you haven't had the
consequences of your action, sort of meted out upon you in a
way that you could walk away. And remember, maybe a scar
somewhere that doesn't bother you.
It seems like we more and more have that, that disconnection in
our physical culture and it's led to just some really vile
Behavior. Sure, you guys were subject to
some online hate and and you know people from the other side
that were you know despising you just for doing the thing that I
think every Dad should do. Yeah.
There was some, there was some initial response there from the
other side, if you will. And we even got an after the
verdict to, we got, you know, some some requests for, for, you
know, try that, when I'm there kind of thing, you know, from a,
someone who's an escort. So, you know, we differ from
this, ignore them and some are kind of funny, actually, sort of
things that were said you had Kind of chuckle.
I could someone actually waste the time to send you some
nonsense but you got to see some humor in it or else you'll go
crazy or despair or get really nervous.
Is it all online written? Or are you guys catching phone
calls or anything like that to? I mean do you have I'm you have
a home you know line that's catching that where your kids
are gonna have to hear a voice mail that's awful or yeah.
You shielded you've been around the block brother you know the
routine. Yeah we got I got the voicemail
my personal phone, you know, with the crazy mess.
Is we don't have an answering machine in the home, so,
thankfully, it's just cell phones, which works, but yeah,
the text message voicemail and email have been the main source
of connection. Does it surprise you?
How vile people can be? Or is it just just one more
facet in this war that, you know, that you're involved in?
What we, you know, we're in the city in Philadelphia 13th?
And Locus is like I said, the gayborhood.
I seen the worst of behavior. I've been spit upon.
I've been pushed. I've been pushed by security
guards. There, you know, I've had an
awful, grotesque things said to me when I've been there by
myself. So, yeah, I seen the worst in
humanity, so I know it doesn't surprise me.
I wish it did. No, I think that's that's the
part about being in this spiritual war that the
physicality of it. Shut probably doesn't surprise
anybody anymore but it is, I don't know, there's depths of
humanity that I think every once in a while, they will come find
something new. Let's talk about something a
little bit more positive. I know Phil's gonna probably not
off to sleep over there because he's on the East Coast.
He's on the wrong side of the country, the King's Men.
Where do you guys put on your seminars?
It says you've traveled all over the world that give me kind of a
unique kind of a tour guide. Are you been and what you've
seen and and maybe where things are different or where your
message is most well-received? Sure.
So yeah, I have the heart of what we do is small men's groups
and we started them in the Northeast part of the country.
And then of course they grew. As we wrote a handbook to help
man and we have a footprint kind of the United States, you know,
all around the country, and that's great.
And then we have guys in Poland Switzerland you know, involved
doing small men's groups and then we have guys in In military
bases in Korea and you have one in Kabul Afghanistan.
So you know we've had that as our heartbeat of what we do and
then we funnel a lot of guys into our small men's groups
through a retreat offering or Retreat programs, outdoor
experiential Retreats and then even healing Retreats healing
Retreats for men, who kind of really have these deep wounds
from their youth, which could be bullying or father Williams, or
maybe they've had an abortion or something.
We're just struggling. 10. So we did that as another funnel
to what we do and then and then we do that for vets as well
First Responders because they have a unique woman there.
And then finally, it's a call to action piece of what we do
inviting men to engage in notable battles.
Like going to the abortion, while defending, traditional
marriage and fighting evil pornography, what does yeah.
Tell me a little more about the noble battles.
I think that's kind of something that people who listen to me,
probably get a probably, A good sense of what that, you know, or
would be that would appeal to them.
But you talk about very specifically pornography
abortion. What was the other one
homosexuality in our culture? Yeah, okay, so traditional, so
how do you how do you approach something like that?
Because obviously the political culture right now.
Screams against that that you should leave engage.
It's a faux pas. It puts you out of the polite
conversation. I think in many on many tables.
Definitely, on the East Coast, it's definitely on the West
Coast. You're probably safer in the
midwest but the people are are scared to engage in that.
So what kind of things do you teach people that they can where
they enter that? Yeah, I think being an activist,
you know, I know a little bit about first amendment rights and
so fighting the evil pornography was was what we initially did as
an apostolate of ministry and we would just do it.
We do it pro life visuals and just go and pray in front of
sexually oriented businesses. And so, we would bring men with
us and we've been a part of the closing of 23 of them because
You know, we just expose the light or the evil to the light
rather and expose all of the lies so that the evil and does
and setting up business there. So that's been a great success
story and it's out of men's comfort zone for sure.
But we would encourage them to join us and then you know, see
the joy in that for themselves and the gift for them.
And even being on the offensive with an issue, that is so much
commonplace for men today, dealing with lust and sins of
the flesh. It was very, it was, it was
something that men were intrigued by.
Although it definitely did label us for a number of years as the
porn Fighters, we got away from it, it was what it was, you
know, someone had to do it. So, you know, we were sued in
federal court. So, you know, we dealt with
federal courts before we won. Of course, we always win.
It's just, we got to spend money to win.
Sometimes our we get the alliance defending Freedom or
Thomas More society and of course traditional traditional
marriage has been something. We've always stood for For
helping men who struggle with same-sex attraction.
But also not being afraid to call out.
You know what? God, created from man and woman
and boy that'll make a lot of enemies.
That'll get you. That'll get you on someone's
hate list real quick but you know, President Obama lit up the
White House and rainbow colors. We went down there and we did a
whole Outreach right in front of the White House lawn and you
know, we were just right in front they're saying after
oberkfell, I just know this Isn't this is not what God
created. This is not good for society,
it's not good for a child. So we've been very vocal about
those things. And, of course, abortions been
always at the heart of all of it, right?
Because right, if you get that wrong, no wonder.
Everything else is way it is. So so we've always been engaged
in that battle. We saw the porn fight is kind of
you know, foundational to the abortion problem because it was
the hyper sexualized culture. And so we were trying to go to
the root of the problem yet we were still Oh, they're still
going 11th hour to the clinics and praying.
And and then just seeing the culture changing, the, you know,
the the drag queen libraries and the culture change.
And throughout the last 20 years, my gosh that we weren't
talking about Jenna transgender issues when I began in 04 L3.
And but now it's just now part of the rhetoric, you know, we
have to be able to defend that too.
So you know what, we're not afraid to talk about these
things. These things are tarred to talk
about. Many reasons, know what to say.
You know, there'll be no biblically how to defend it.
So we just try to give them permission to kind of just stand
up against this stuff and we try to link him to what we're doing.
So they don't feel alone in it. Uh-huh, there.
I think there's probably two takes on what we're looking at,
in the, in the culture War, as it stands right now and one of
those is that we're losing and that there is an awful lot of
evil and it's more of it. But the other possibility is
that these are last gasp of a failing.
Attempt to really capture people's hearts and they look,
you know, ridiculous on their face.
The drag queen story, our thing you say it didn't exist.
When I was, when I was in my Twenties, that was not a thing
that I ever heard of. And suddenly, they want to push
this agenda, like it's a real, like it's a real necessary part
of our culture and it seems absurd.
And do you feel like that we're losing ground, or that?
This is, the last Gap. Is it?
Where is it somewhere in between it?
And we're just hoping hoping on one of the other?
Yeah, you know, I've been saying a lot with Was some of the talks
have been given since the, the trial ended.
Now that st. Peter says, that the devil
prowls around, like a roaring lion, hope looking for someone
to devour, right? And so when we think of an old
African proverb which says a roaring lion catches no, pray
nor no gain, we really have to see the devil as as a wounded
animal and that's what a roaring lion is.
It's a wounded animal when lions are healthy.
They're quiet. They don't Roar The Lioness is
they hunt in stealth mode and so you know, healthy line is not
going to do that if it wants to catch its prey.
So we know the devil's wounded, we know that he Roars because
it's all he can do and all the animals flee when they hear the
roaring lion, because he's wounded, and they'll just get
out of his way and won't. But the only thing that the
devil catches and the lion will catch is the dead person, the
spiritually dead. And so that's what the devil
will grant. Either up at the people who
weren't praying, the people who aren't listening to God, the
people who aren't going to church, the people who are
buying into the LIE of the culture, the whoa culture,
that's who the devil is going to is going to devour.
So I think faithful people need to know that and they need to
know that you have nothing to fear.
You know, we've been loud. We lost a lot of pro-lifers and
Philadelphia coming coming out to the clinics.
After I got arrested, it's exactly what they wanted to have
happen. They were scared.
Imagine that happen around the rest of the country to.
But now we're trying to encourage them.
Don't be afraid like you got the case law, good keep going.
But don't don't let what happened to me prevent you from
fulfilling the will of God in your life.
So I think that's where men struggle and they ask need to
step out and have that courage. Yeah.
And you know, courage, because courage and one step, you know,
follows another, did you have any contact with the others that
were there? Were other people that were
arrested, you were the first of several during that sort of wave
that went on of the doj decided to push a sort of a ridiculous
position. But did you have any contact
with any of them? Did you order?
Are they going to be relying on your case law now that you've
that it's been established? You think good question, you
know, father Fidelis he got convicted up in New York and
he's trying Sentencing is pending.
I have not had contact. I know, people who know him.
Paul Von. I didn't realize that.
Well, who is this again? Yeah.
Father Fidelis. She's he was arrested up in New
York. He says, CFR father Benedict,
groeschel zorder, okay? Very Orthodox.
There's gotta be. Yeah, who's gonna be pulling
that up right now? Yeah, and then, so, he's pending
sentencing. Yeah, he was convicted.
He do, he did a little something different than I did.
He locked the gates, you know, he put, He bar, lock the gate.
Eh it out and then use. Yeah.
Okay I remember I remember him so that may actually that may
actually fit the actual elements in like that I can shoot.
Yeah that actually a little closer.
Yeah. Paul Von you know he had his he
has 10 kids or whatever but is for agents came out to his
house. I have not spoken to him.
Joan Andrews Bell. I her son was at my trial and I
spoke to her directly through that but I really haven't had
much contact. We probably should have some
sort of It's a gathering. I gather of the of these folks
at some point. Yeah, an alumni meeting of this
sort of a suspicious suspicious nature.
Have you any knowledge about the meeting?
That's it. Yes.
PNG someone referred to me as P it they said persona extremely
non grata the other day about being in the FBI which is
always. I thought that was kind of a
nice thing. I was kind of grateful for that
title. There's a.
So there was a memo that that one of my whistleblowers brought
forward, I don't know if you're familiar with it but it was
talking about some of the other traditional Catholics the
so-called radical traditional Catholics, I'm sure you will
find yourself on an splc hate list at some point because
that's what they do. Have you been tracking that at
all? If you had a, if you had any
bandwidth to digest that so, so it's a great question is where
we're going next. So, so I have an interview with
the Judiciary Committee on February 22nd to begin process,
to have that testified before Congress.
And that subcommittee, that was in charged of over.
The federal government's overreach.
So that's going to be happening. We reached out to the former FBI
head, in the eastern district, where I am, who is a devout
Catholic, who retired two years ago.
And he's willing to cooperate and help us.
I just saw Bill bar, and event in Orlando, and he's willing to
help us former Attorney General, under Donald Trump at a doj,
right? Also, he's willing to help us so
we're moving in this direction. Section 2 to begin this process.
That's good. It's funny that it has got into
the, it's at least God, I think they blew it like in so many
ways. They tipped a hand.
What they don't realize is that there are an awful lot of
Catholics. There's also a lot of just
Evangelical Christians and others who hold the same views
as all Catholics to about abortion and about the
homosexuality agenda that we're talking about here and these are
not foreign to to mainstream people in this country we've
just been kind of stifled in a lot of ways and people kind of
keep their mouths shut I think that's the legacy of the 90s for
some reason. Like everybody just tried to let
everybody be and there was that participation trophy kind of
culture but that led to a lot of Tolerance that maybe got out of
hand in a way that we're seeing, you know, the backlash of the
right now which is that you've got to weaponize, doj will only
go after guys like you and that are willing to push the envelope
about issues that the federal government, really ought not to
have any saying there was a prosecutor I stalked you the
other day. He said, the government doesn't
have any stake in the outcome of law enforcement.
They should only be interested in the process.
But I don't think it probably felt like that for you and it
certainly doesn't feel like that looking from being on the
outside now and looking inside again, and seeing what's going
on there. They seem to really care what
the outcome is. Sure, it seems that way.
And yeah, now we're definitely at the point of the spear,
right? So we see it, we feel it.
And, you know, we're we know, it's going to get worse.
In fact, I feel like there's even more of a Target on my back
as a result of it. So, you know, by the grace of
Go. I and we just were trusting in
his protection and Providence and and goodness and you know,
but we're trying to talk to the right people.
God seems to be leading us all the right people.
I think our conversation tonight is a help in that process to.
We met a couple state troopers who, who said that they saw the
invitation that day to go out and support the FBI.
And they rejected it because they said I'm not doing this.
So we know and we tell our children like look you know
there's two state troopers had a choice that day.
As did every FBI agent. So you know, obviously would
have to deal with the consequences of that choice, but
an immoral order is still in moral water.
And there's moral injury there when you when you follow through
on a moral order. So whether you're in the front
lines in the military, or first responder or doj representative,
there's some tremendous amount of injury that I think took
place in the hearts of good people that day, as a result of
watching my children screaming, sure sheer Terror.
So And they're going to have to carry that around and answer for
that on their own time, and hopefully, they seek the
Forgiveness. They need to that they can get
over it, too. I'm assuming that you've already
made peace with what those people are.
You don't hold, you hold animosity, or Grudge.
Or how do you, how do you move forward with your thoughts about
these guys? It's tough for Phil and I'll
just tell you right now, it's very difficult for Phil and I to
let our colleagues off the hook. That way, sure.
Look someone asked me that question is to who, you know,
you harboring. Anything is so look.
I want to go to heaven. I don't Harbor any thing.
Like, if I hold it, if I'm holding anything against
somebody, I ain't getting into heaven, you know, because God's
you can't bring it, you can't bring it to the Lord.
So I and I forgive them all. I know they're conflicted.
I know that they're struggling to make a decision, they have
the on the one end they have, you know, this is my job.
This is my career is how I support my family.
And now, that's at a Crossroads with the life of another human
being, you know, that I get it, I get it, I would not want to be
in their shoes. However, if you put me in that
position, if I was given an immoral order, we would ask my
son, this question. And he said, would you expect
your dad not to follow it? And he said absolutely.
So, it comes back to integrity and each man has to have and
woman has to have 20 with plenty of women there that day actually
Integrity. That says, no, this is, this is
a bridge too far. I can, I cannot do this, that's
it? No, I think that's the, that's
the call to action. Action for all of our law
enforcement for our military to like I said find that Line in
the Sand. The word is people always ask me
you know what can I do to help? It's like, help yourself help
yourself because otherwise you'll be ashamed.
There's so many people that backpedal Beyond things and have
done things that they are ashamed of doing because they
didn't prepare beforehand. There's a buddy of mine who
lives up in Long Island and, you know, he's a classic like Long
Island, tough guy, but he became a fitness, dude.
And one of the things that he always tells me is prepare or
repair, and it doesn't matter whether you're talking about
your Our or your diet, or your health or your spiritual health,
all those things are huge. You really just have two
options. You can either prepare or you're
going to be working backwards afterwards and trying to repair.
I'm very glad that you were prepared on that day.
That you were that you were tested.
I'm glad you stood up as a dad that did the right thing and I'm
glad you had the restraint that you did.
I'm going to let Phil kind of do a couple of quick readouts on it
that he was gonna give us out. But thank you so much for
sharing your story, a long form. I'm more educated on it before
we do that. That and we'll put this in the
show notes. Tell people how they can follow
you support you. The now, they can find your
seminars if they're men that are that are curious about the
things you've been talking about.
Kind of give us a little little pitch there.
Yeah. Thanks again, Kyle and Phil I
appreciate it. Just go to The Kingsmen dot org
and they can link to everything. I was talking about today as far
as the retreats in the men's groups, the King's Men dot-org.
And you guys have a social media presence on any of the the big
platforms are there. They can click on all that stuff
when they get onto the website. But there's Twitter and some
social media there. Okay.
Fantastic. So that'll be in the show notes,
folks, you can click down through it.
The King's Men dot or not to be confused with the movie that had
whatever those. Those goofy young guys
pretending to be spies filled. You want to read us out with any
interesting information? Yeah, sure.
So again, thanks to everybody who's given to the gifts and go
to help support the whistleblowers.
This is spendables over here on the Kyle, serif and show.
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Always a great. Listen, I'd finally just a
reminder to everybody that our buddy, Steve Friends, book is
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True Blue by Steve friend and number five Kyle on the a, yes,
yeah, I'm at government corruption last year and his
thing mark, thank you so much for spending time with us.
After Super Bowl Sunday, I didn't watch the game, but I I
imagine that some of the Chiefs win so who you were.
Yeah. You guys on the other side I was
my have a strange connection to filled to Kansas City and not
the strong one but my dad actually worked there for a
number of years for the for the Royals.
So I figured of the to I got no connection to Philly at all
because I'm sorry it's slope, they won't be flipping over.
They won't be flipping over extra cars or maybe they will,
maybe that's what they do when they lose to yet.
I saw some, some, some pregame Shenanigans.
Yeah. Anything that close looks good.
Thanks so much for spending your evening with us.
We really We appreciate it and we wish you the best of luck.
And I'm going to be looking into The Kingsmen that org,
especially when you guys are out here in Arizona.
That sounds like a interesting thing to catch up with look
forward to it. Thanks so much.
God bless you guys. All right, yeah.
God bless you too. Thanks so much and
congratulations on your victory in court.
Thanks for listening to the Kyle Serafin.
Show be sure to follow him on Twitter and Truth at Kyle's
seraphin.