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Prepare to hear the truth from a
real whistleblower, an American 

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Patriot, here's civil liberties,
enthusiasts, Second Amendment, 

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Defender and indefinitely 
suspended FBI agent. 

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Kyle seraphin, ladies and 
gentlemen, welcome back to the 

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Kyle Serafin show. 
Thanks so much for joining us 

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today. 
We have someone that I am 

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really, really humbled to meet 
and talk to some of that. 

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You're going to be very 
impressed with hearing his 

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personal story. 
And someone coming off a 

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fantastic personal Victory. 
But moreover, a really big 

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victory for this country. 
I think we have Mark Howard with

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us, he's the The co founder and 
the president of the king's man 

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and he's an author or lecturer, 
a radio host, he's an activist, 

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he's too passionate Catholic and
he is a recently acquitted. 

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A Victor over the Department of 
Justice on a really really awful

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prosecution of the face act 
which is going to be 18. 

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USC, 2 48. 
He's the father of is it seven 

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Mark, is it seven kids? 
Seven kids just a champion out 

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there bringing more people into 
the world and teaching in 

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raising them, right? 
I'm Of welcome you on. 

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Thanks so much for being on this
show and thanks for being here. 

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Well, to come and talk to us. 
Thanks Kyle. 

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Good to be with you. 
So I was talking to my daughter 

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today about us having this 
conversation and she said, you 

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know, Dad who he talked to my 
daughter's 5 she's my oldest and

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I said I'm going to talk to a 
man who got arrested by Dad's 

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old work. 
And she said well, why would 

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they do that? 
And I said, well, he was 

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protecting his son and she said 
from from a bad kid and I said 

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no no from a grown man and She 
said, that's disgusting. 

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So a five-year-old even knows 
that it's disgusting. 

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That somebody would come after 
kid, and get involved in it. 

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We're going to get into your 
whole story. 

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I want to just start with. 
Where did you grow up? 

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If you've been at a lifelong 
Catholic or your cradle 

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Catholic, or are you a convert 
and and kind of how did you end 

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up here? 
Sure, I have a cradle Catholic 

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and I grew up in Southeastern 
Pennsylvania, in Bucks County PA

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just outside of Philadelphia and
yeah, like I said, cradle 

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Catholic raised youngest of 
four. 

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Or private Catholic school 
education, my whole life played 

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college football pursue 
professional football for a 

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little while and then actually 
worked in juvenile justice for a

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while and then became a teacher 
and taught for about a year 

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before I went into full-time 
Ministry in the pro-life 

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movement. 
What were you teaching 

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curiosity? 
Yeah I taught High School, 

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French Middle School? 
French? 

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That was not what I would have 
guessed but that I like it. 

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You seem like a pretty big guy. 
What did what position do you 

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play when you play football? 
I was a free safety. 6-foot 215 

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pound guy. 
Okay, when I saw the videos 

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actually, when I saw the first 
pictures of you with your family

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which was beautiful, there was a
whole, you know, there's 

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obviously a lot of like, promo 
pictures of you around the Altar

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and things like that. 
And some of the different place 

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that you've been doing industry,
and you didn't look like the 

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kind of guy that I was going to 
go and pick a fight with. 

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I generally try to stay within 
my weight bracket and you look 

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Like you got some meat on you 
and that you're probably not a 

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stranger to contact it. 
Shocks me that this guy decided 

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that he's going to go pick on a 
kid but I guess that's what 

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bullies do. 
Yeah, yeah, you know, I seen 

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this man for 20 plus years, he's
not afraid to have a little 

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banter in this case you know 
after probably 40 some 

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encounters with him and my son 
on this particular day, he was 

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just more interested in pushing 
an agitating and of course he 

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violated the Some space of my 
son and then he started to 

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harass my son verbally, which, 
of course, I directed him not to

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do that and continue her head 
till he just wouldn't stop. 

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And then eventually, the 
encounter you saw on the on the 

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film or the video and you guys 
weren't even near the clinic 

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entrance which is really amazing
to me that they just, I mean, 

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that's how we know this was such
a political persecution. 

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And I'm just speaking to 
somebody who, if they had asked 

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me to go put this case together.
I look at it and I go now, it's 

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not the air. 
Like that's that's not there. 

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You could just see it from 
looking at the Camera angles, we

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saw some Shock that they decided
to go do it. 

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I mean, you must have been 
shocked as well. 

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Yeah, we are 50 feet from the 
entrance and minding our own 

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business. 
There were no women leaving the 

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building at that time. 
No women even coming in. 

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So, it was just a deliberate act
on his part to provoke a father,

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and it became about my rights as
a father. 

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Then it became about First 
Amendment rights at this point 

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and even the face act violation.
Sure. 

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No, I mean, that's I think 
that's number one, I made the 

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same call. 
It's the people. 

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I said you know if somebody came
after my kid like that, like I 

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thought you were very 
restrained. 

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I thought you were that was a 
very gentle way, especially if 

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you had a head of history. 
With, as I said, I don't know if

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the guy would have been 
breathing if you came up from 

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and the things that I heard was 
said even in and of themselves, 

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they cross the line. 
They would cross the line with a

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lot of grown-ups, let alone, you
know your son, who how, what was

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your son at the time? 
He was 12 at the time and you 

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know, we're home, school, home, 
school family, so, you know, 

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that he's not used to hearing 
some of the vulgarity that he 

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hears, but But nonetheless, I'm 
able to process that for him. 

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On this particular day, he was 
nervous. 

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He was getting uncomfortable. 
I could tell he was 

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uncomfortable and, you know, I 
had to protect his little heart.

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Yeah, that's your job. 
I mean, that's really, that's 

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the only reason that we're out 
there in the world. 

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I had a guy reach out to me on 
Twitter the other day and he 

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said it, you know, the world is 
so scary and so crazy that I'm 

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worried about bringing children 
into it and I said no would like

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go out there and find someone. 
You love and start making some 

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babies man. 
Like that's the only reason that

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you have any skin in the game 
because if you're not part of 

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the, you're not part of the 
solution. 

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And look at that, like What's 
the point, right? 

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I mean, what's the purpose of 
trying to make this world 

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better? 
If it's, if it's not for the 

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Next Generation? 
I don't know what would motivate

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people. 
Hmm, interesting. 

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Yeah, you know, we're open to 
life and, you know, we're very 

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pro-life. 
I think the kids down to, to the

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clinics and they've had exposure
there. 

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And as a homeschool dad, that, 
that's a homeschool lesson that 

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day, you know, been fighting the
culture War, so engaging in that

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battle explaining to them, right
in the neighborhood of 

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Philadelphia. 
You know, there's a lot of 

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things there that are dead, may 
not want to bring his son too. 

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Or even his other children but 
there's a greater good in it and

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I think my son got that and of 
course, we're in prayer. 

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We know it's a spiritual battle.
So it's a, it's a prayerful 

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experience and it's taken him 
right up against the enemy so he

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can see what it looks like. 
So he knows, you know, the 

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battles that he's going to have 
to fight when I'm gone. 

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That's true. 
People can't see it but Phil is 

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nodding along and he also agrees
so. 

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So I guess the question is you 
take one child at a time? 

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When you do this you talk about 
it being a homeschool lesson. 

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There's obviously a lot going 
on. 

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Any given Street in 
Philadelphia, on any given time,

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is that something you want to be
able to have direct access to 

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one at a time? 
Or you guys go in bulk or how 

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does that work? 
Yeah, I've taken I've taken all 

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seven of them at different 
intervals but that usually a 

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couple times not too often all 
of them because it's a lot to 

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manage. 
But my son has choir rehearsal 

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every Wednesday and that's the 
Wednesday that I go down. 

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So it's just, it's more of a 
logistical thing, where, you 

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know, he's got practice. 
So we take them there and he's 

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part of the Philadelphia, boys. 
Wired, which is a renowned 

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choir. 
So he is in a sense, a choir 

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boy. 
And you know, that's the poster 

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child, you know, and he's a good
kid and you know he wouldn't 

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have it any other way. 
He wants to be there. 

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It's a great. 
It's a very special day for him 

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and his dad, a lot of good time 
in the road. 

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We're in the car for two hours 
in the way down to hours, on the

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way back. 
So it's a special day for us on 

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that particular day. 
What was the conversation like, 

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on the way back? 
Because I mean, had he seen you 

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get physical with somebody 
before like that? 

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No. 
I think that's the first time 

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he's witnessed that suddenly up 
close like that. 

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Yeah, that I think we went right
after that Kyle to pray actually

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actually. 
After after the man, I pushed 

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him away from my son, we went 
and we had some spare time when 

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we did a holy hour, we actually 
grab some lunch. 

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The holier than I got a tax that
the Civil Affairs Department 

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were at the facility. 
So I said, Mark come on we have 

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to go back and then I went back 
and I you know, knocked on the 

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window of the police, the police
And departments Vehicles, civil 

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Affairs Division. 
And I just said, hey, here's my 

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information, here's my statement
and we stuck around for about 

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15-20 minutes and then I took 
him to practice and then the 

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ride home. 
I think it was pretty much. 

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No not. 
There wasn't much for the 

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thought on it, to be honest with
you. 

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I mean that makes sense. 
It was kind of a non into that 

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other than, you know, something 
had to happen at that. 

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Exact moment. 
You got to do what you got to 

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do. 
But, you know, look like the 

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gentleman walked up and walked 
away. 

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Like you have a long history 
with him? 

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I didn't know about that. 
That's interesting. 

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So you know, he goes on to choir
practice. 

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You kind of get to move on. 
You had a pleasant exchange with

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the was it Philadelphia PD is 
that who was taking the 

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complaint from a plainclothes 
division? 

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Everything handle the First 
Amendment rights in the activism

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and the protests and 
demonstrations that are in the 

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city and they're great guys. 
They're they're often and sure 

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took the information said. 
I don't think there's anything 

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here but he may want to press 
personal charges against you. 

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I said, that's fine. 
Which is exactly what. 

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Okay. 
It was a long time afterwards 

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that doj decided to come in and 
push the FBI on. 

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Did you have any inkling that 
there was an FBI case on you? 

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They they come in interview. 
You first was that part of the 

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experience? 
So we had the private criminal 

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complaint at the local Municipal
level state level. 

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Sure the he lost it was 
dismissed he didn't show up five

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days after this is April 27th of
2022. 

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I I get served by the doj at the
sidewalk at the clinic and it 

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was a Target letter saying was a
target of a grand jury 

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investigation that point. 
They asked me to have my 

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attorney, a contact them which 
who was a former Federal 

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prosecutor with the Thomas More 
Society? 

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His name is Matt Heffron, I 
don't know Braska and he 

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contacted the ausa Philly and 
eastern district there and said,

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you have no case. 
My clients innocent clusters 

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case law in your own District 
against it. 

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But should you want to indict my
client? 

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He's a peaceful man. 
No need to bring an agent out to

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the highwomen. 
House will bring them in, no 

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problem. 
And that was it, they didn't 

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really say anything. 
At that point, they did ask for 

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a proper for me to come in and 
ask some questions my former 

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Federal. 
Prosecutor said, absolutely not.

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They're nice evidence. 
So so we didn't hear anything. 

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August 20, 22 Kyle. 
I get a call from the same 

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00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:18,800
attorney and says, have you 
heard from the assistant us 

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00:10:18,800 --> 00:10:20,800
attorney? 
I said, well, we'll know why 

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would I have heard? 
He said, well, she won't return 

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my phone calls. 
So, when we got rated on Friday,

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September 23rd, that was the 
next time I even heard anything.

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00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:35,700
So it had been about 5 months. 
It's so crazy to and and you'd 

225
00:10:35,700 --> 00:10:38,100
already made the the offer out 
there saying that you be happy 

226
00:10:38,100 --> 00:10:41,200
to do a surrender that you be 
happy to come in, should they 

227
00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:44,000
ask which would be very common 
for this sort of situation? 

228
00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:49,000
Did they do they use a criminal 
complaint as a as a device to 

229
00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:50,600
come out there and do the arrest
warrant? 

230
00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:52,700
Or did the judge actually 
authorized the arrest at your 

231
00:10:52,700 --> 00:10:53,500
house like that? 
You know. 

232
00:10:53,700 --> 00:10:58,100
So what I understand it was a 
bench warrant II when they came 

233
00:10:58,100 --> 00:11:02,000
to my home at 6:45 in the 
morning, they banged on the door

234
00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:05,000
didn't even now announce who the
Were which I don't think is 

235
00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:09,400
standard procedure, but they 
banged and open the door or said

236
00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:13,200
to open the door rather. 
And I was putting a quiche in 

237
00:11:13,208 --> 00:11:17,000
the oven and getting the kids. 
Ready for Co-Op then you have 

238
00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:18,800
real men, eat quiche, right? 
That's right. 

239
00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:22,000
That's true. 
So wife and children are still 

240
00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:25,600
asleep. 
It's dark o'clock and I said 

241
00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:28,400
well, who is it? 
And they said it's the, it's the

242
00:11:28,400 --> 00:11:30,800
FBI and they banged again open 
up the door. 

243
00:11:31,100 --> 00:11:34,800
And I said, okay, stay calm. 
I have seven babies in here. 

244
00:11:34,900 --> 00:11:38,600
Stay calm, I'm going to open up 
the door so I was opening up the

245
00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:40,800
door, show them my hands, of 
course. 

246
00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:45,000
And I couldn't believe five 
agents on the porch about 50 

247
00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:47,200
Market. 
Unmarked units surrounding the 

248
00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:49,400
house. 
On the side of my house, my 

249
00:11:49,400 --> 00:11:52,800
daughter takes note of an agent 
at the back door, in their 

250
00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:57,000
window and then all these long 
guns, m---sixteens later, I 

251
00:11:57,008 --> 00:12:00,200
understood that, that's what 
they were appointed at me. 

252
00:12:00,600 --> 00:12:03,500
PA state troopers about 10 of 
those and about another 12. 

253
00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:07,800
Of federal agents heavily 
armored vest ballistic Shields 

254
00:12:07,800 --> 00:12:10,200
ballistic helmets and a 
battering ram. 

255
00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:12,100
They're going to take down the 
door if I denote but have. 

256
00:12:12,100 --> 00:12:14,300
So I said, what are you doing 
here? 

257
00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:16,300
And they said well, you know why
we're here? 

258
00:12:16,300 --> 00:12:18,300
I said, actually, I really 
didn't because I haven't heard 

259
00:12:18,300 --> 00:12:20,500
from the ausa, so, I was even 
thinking that. 

260
00:12:20,900 --> 00:12:23,500
So I said, oh, you're here 
because I rescue babies, it just

261
00:12:23,500 --> 00:12:26,300
kind of clicked in my head. 
And then I looked at all my 

262
00:12:26,300 --> 00:12:29,100
said, you wouldn't be here for 
you, by the way, good for you. 

263
00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:32,600
I looked at all of them and I 
said, you wouldn't be here if 

264
00:12:32,600 --> 00:12:35,000
the Trump Administration. 
She was in the white house and 

265
00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:37,000
they didn't say anything. 
No one said anything, I went 

266
00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:38,400
took me down. 
I wasn't shot. 

267
00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:41,500
No brought me to the ground. 
My wife comes down her bathroom 

268
00:12:41,500 --> 00:12:43,500
and she's tying it up and she 
says do you have a warrant for 

269
00:12:43,500 --> 00:12:46,600
his arrest and the lead agent 
who I later Learned was the lead

270
00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:50,000
agent said we're taking him with
or without a warrant which is 

271
00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:53,300
exactly what they said. 
My wife said we can't do that, I

272
00:12:53,300 --> 00:12:55,600
knew they were going to take me 
into custody at that point. 

273
00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:58,100
And I said, can I put some socks
on now? 

274
00:12:58,100 --> 00:13:00,400
Can I put some clothes on? 
I had just underwear t-shirt and

275
00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:03,400
flip-flops. 
No, can I brush my teeth? 

276
00:13:03,700 --> 00:13:06,000
Now I put some deodorant on no 
pants. 

277
00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:08,400
No, they let me take my rosary, 
though. 

278
00:13:08,900 --> 00:13:12,700
Oddly enough. 
He eventually the lead agent 

279
00:13:12,700 --> 00:13:15,400
when I was in the black 
Suburban, she ripped off the 

280
00:13:15,400 --> 00:13:18,100
cover letter. 
I don't even think they told me 

281
00:13:18,100 --> 00:13:22,200
what I was being indicted for 
I've time, I also think is 

282
00:13:22,400 --> 00:13:27,400
procedure, but I don't think 
that was read to me, frankly. 

283
00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:31,300
So nonetheless, I was in custody
in cuffs in front of my children

284
00:13:31,300 --> 00:13:33,400
screaming at this point, my kids
are screaming. 

285
00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:36,500
Guns are over the threshold of 
my front door pointed out my 

286
00:13:36,500 --> 00:13:41,200
wife and my children are in 
range of the weapons because 

287
00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:45,300
they're on the doorsteps there 
or the the steps going up to the

288
00:13:45,308 --> 00:13:47,700
second floor. 
So that's that was my morning. 

289
00:13:47,700 --> 00:13:50,300
I was I was down to federal 
building by 8:00 a.m. that day 

290
00:13:52,700 --> 00:13:55,200
So I'm a father feels a father. 
We're both shaking our heads 

291
00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:58,100
about this. 
I mean, we've been on search 

292
00:13:58,100 --> 00:14:00,100
warrants. 
I've been on Plenty of them and 

293
00:14:00,100 --> 00:14:02,900
when you go on a search warrant,
it's almost always the, you 

294
00:14:02,900 --> 00:14:04,700
know, most of them I've been to 
have been either drugs and 

295
00:14:04,708 --> 00:14:05,900
gangs. 
We've been up to child 

296
00:14:05,900 --> 00:14:08,400
trafficking stuff, you get 
through there and you kind of 

297
00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:10,200
think you're going after a riot,
just bad guy. 

298
00:14:11,400 --> 00:14:14,100
I don't know what the brief was 
that these guys got well, you 

299
00:14:14,100 --> 00:14:16,300
know, guys and gals came and 
knocked on your door with, but 

300
00:14:17,100 --> 00:14:20,600
it's, it's kind of Staggering 
that nobody through the BS flag 

301
00:14:20,600 --> 00:14:22,700
at any point in there and just 
said, you know, why don't Call 

302
00:14:22,700 --> 00:14:24,300
him because that would be the 
normal move. 

303
00:14:24,300 --> 00:14:25,900
Like it's really easy to call 
people. 

304
00:14:25,900 --> 00:14:28,200
I love calling people up. 
I would call Guy up and say, hey

305
00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:29,400
do you want to surrender? 
And they would say no. 

306
00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:31,500
And I say, okay and I hang up 
and then I would do that for a 

307
00:14:31,508 --> 00:14:33,400
couple days and they call me and
I'd hang up on them. 

308
00:14:33,500 --> 00:14:36,200
And then finally, you get to the
point where they call they go. 

309
00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:37,500
Hey man, I'm not trying to run 
from you. 

310
00:14:37,500 --> 00:14:39,200
And I go good when you want to 
meet, you know, it's like I'm 

311
00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:41,800
like, I'll just treat them like,
like, a high-school girlfriend. 

312
00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:44,200
You just keep hanging up on him 
and still, they eventually want 

313
00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:46,700
to call you back. 
And I've done that before, and 

314
00:14:46,700 --> 00:14:48,400
it's very successful. 
I'm shocked. 

315
00:14:48,400 --> 00:14:50,200
They didn't say, a search 
warrant or arrest warrant when 

316
00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:51,900
they were banging on the door. 
The wall. 

317
00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:55,300
No, not not, not at all my wife,
you know, ask for it. 

318
00:14:55,300 --> 00:14:58,100
And they wouldn't give it. 
Like I said, eventually gave it 

319
00:14:58,100 --> 00:15:00,100
when I got in the car. 
I said, please tell me. 

320
00:15:00,100 --> 00:15:03,000
Why did you eat 30 people here? 
And they said, well, sure the 

321
00:15:03,008 --> 00:15:05,900
driver from st. 
Louis said, we don't know 

322
00:15:05,900 --> 00:15:09,000
anything about you, and we come 
prepared for anything. 

323
00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:12,300
I said, I find that hard to 
believe that the FBI didn't know

324
00:15:12,300 --> 00:15:14,300
anything about me. 
You know, where to find me on 

325
00:15:14,300 --> 00:15:16,600
Wednesday, down the city, but 
you didn't know anything about 

326
00:15:16,600 --> 00:15:19,600
my home. 
So the lead agent, didn't say a 

327
00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:23,000
word. 
So I he knew so we got To the, 

328
00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:26,600
to the federal building which is
100 yards from Independence Hall

329
00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:28,100
the belly. 
After I figure, they 

330
00:15:28,100 --> 00:15:31,300
fingerprinted me your belly. 
Actually, I should say this 

331
00:15:31,300 --> 00:15:34,300
before I move into that the 
driver, we had such a good 

332
00:15:34,300 --> 00:15:36,300
conversation on the way they 
were talking about home school. 

333
00:15:36,300 --> 00:15:39,700
He wanted to be home, schooled 
dad, and he actually reaches out

334
00:15:39,708 --> 00:15:42,500
his hand, he says it was a real 
pleasure meeting you. 

335
00:15:42,700 --> 00:15:46,800
It's right. 
So after they fingerprint me and

336
00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:51,600
they belly, shackle me, they 
ankle shackle me and then they 

337
00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:54,500
cuffed me. 
To a table in a white room, for 

338
00:15:54,500 --> 00:15:58,900
about six hours in that process,
you know, I'm having the 

339
00:15:59,100 --> 00:16:03,000
greatest prayer experience of my
life answered fully into the 

340
00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:05,600
moment. 
With with my Lord, and I'm at 

341
00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:08,000
the foot of Calvary, they'll 
come in every once in a while, 

342
00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:10,300
we have the pre-trial. 
Like, are you a Flight Risk kind

343
00:16:10,300 --> 00:16:12,600
of thing going on? 
But man, I'm just totally 

344
00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:15,200
surrounded my family. 
My kids and then the whole 

345
00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:18,500
situation, however, I'm kind of 
boggled why I'm being chained to

346
00:16:18,500 --> 00:16:23,000
a table and Shackled In my 
ankles that are Of course it 

347
00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:28,200
wouldn't let me put socks on. 
So after six hours and then 

348
00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:31,000
manipulating coercing me to give
up information that I was not, 

349
00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:34,500
they told me I didn't have, I 
didn't have to give up, but 

350
00:16:34,500 --> 00:16:37,400
there they coerced my wife to do
the same thing. 

351
00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:41,300
After I wouldn't Quran cooperate
with them about giving the names

352
00:16:41,300 --> 00:16:43,200
of my siblings. 
I said, I have siblings in the 

353
00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:45,400
area, I just wasn't comfortable,
giving them their names. 

354
00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:49,300
And so nonetheless, they pursued
that. 

355
00:16:49,300 --> 00:16:52,200
Then I went down to the US 
Marshals and I was treated like 

356
00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:56,300
a A dog there. 
I mean I was I was a felon belly

357
00:16:56,300 --> 00:16:58,400
Shackled. 
I Had To Shimmy my feet the 

358
00:16:58,408 --> 00:17:00,400
whole way down in the ankle 
shackles. 

359
00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:03,300
I don't know why that was 
necessary, you may know. 

360
00:17:03,500 --> 00:17:05,599
And then I was still cuffed 
obviously, in my hands, which is

361
00:17:05,599 --> 00:17:07,599
totally. 
This is before you went to do, 

362
00:17:07,599 --> 00:17:09,300
your initial appearance. 
Is that what you're waiting on? 

363
00:17:09,300 --> 00:17:12,700
Now, I had my initial appearance
before the judge via Zoom. 

364
00:17:12,700 --> 00:17:16,200
Just like we're doing this now 
and we won't, they had every 

365
00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:18,300
intention to release me on my 
own recognizance. 

366
00:17:18,300 --> 00:17:21,599
Which meant not a flight risk, 
or I wasn't, I wasn't a threat. 

367
00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:23,800
Sure. 
So, this was their intention. 

368
00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:26,500
They wanted to humiliate me, 
intimidate, me and scare me. 

369
00:17:26,500 --> 00:17:29,200
Scare my family. 
I'm going to so reckless and so 

370
00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:32,000
dangerous with they did was an 
act of Terror. 

371
00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:34,300
My kids could have been shot. 
If I my kid hadn't grabbed, one 

372
00:17:34,300 --> 00:17:36,900
of our airsoft guns, he would 
have been shot. 

373
00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:39,900
So we get down to the US 
Marshals. 

374
00:17:39,900 --> 00:17:43,300
And I'm finally released after 
about eight to ten hours and we 

375
00:17:43,300 --> 00:17:45,600
were reunited about 4:00 with 
the family. 

376
00:17:47,500 --> 00:17:50,900
You said, you, you basically 
went straight into prayer while 

377
00:17:50,900 --> 00:17:53,200
you were in this room. 
I know a lot of people have no 

378
00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:57,500
idea how to approach that kind 
of stress, that sort of, that 

379
00:17:57,500 --> 00:17:59,400
sort of fear, that would, that 
would grasp you. 

380
00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:02,100
I went through survival 
training, so, I have kind of a 

381
00:18:02,100 --> 00:18:04,000
different Instinct. 
You know, you sort of you stay 

382
00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:06,200
into a circle of things that you
want to talk about and you do 

383
00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:08,900
the things that you're trained 
and and prayer is definitely 

384
00:18:08,900 --> 00:18:11,800
part of it for most people. 
Because if you don't have 

385
00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:14,200
somewhere to go with it, you're 
just there with your own 

386
00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:15,900
thoughts, which could be the 
worst thing in the world. 

387
00:18:17,300 --> 00:18:21,900
Were you were you were you 
distracted by what was going on?

388
00:18:21,900 --> 00:18:23,000
There? 
Were you, you know, worrying 

389
00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:25,300
about what was going to happen, 
your family next, or did you 

390
00:18:25,300 --> 00:18:28,300
really just kind of Zone into 
the, you know, with the rosary 

391
00:18:28,300 --> 00:18:31,000
beads that you just Zone in and 
just start running through 

392
00:18:31,300 --> 00:18:33,700
prayer and that moment and just 
know that God had you in his 

393
00:18:33,700 --> 00:18:35,900
hands. 
I mean, how, how much did you 

394
00:18:35,908 --> 00:18:38,400
come in and out of being? 
Like I can only imagine six 

395
00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:40,700
hours sitting there just water. 
I know I'd be panicking about my

396
00:18:40,700 --> 00:18:44,100
wife and I'm trained. 
Yeah, yeah, you know, I just had

397
00:18:44,100 --> 00:18:46,600
a piece the whole the whole time
that was beyond understanding. 

398
00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:51,500
Ending and I I just knew that I 
was unjustly suffering which is 

399
00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:53,800
you can handle that. 
If you know if you can see the 

400
00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:56,900
causation of your actions and 
the effects of all that and say,

401
00:18:56,900 --> 00:19:00,000
okay but in this case I just saw
the lamb to the slaughter and I 

402
00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:02,900
was just I prayed every mystery 
of the Rosary prayed, every 

403
00:19:02,900 --> 00:19:04,600
devotional. 
I could think of thought of 

404
00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:07,600
everything that ever suffered 
persecution suffering, of 

405
00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:10,400
course, our Lord. 
I was totally at Calvary. 

406
00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:13,400
As I said, felt his presence 
felt my guardian angel. 

407
00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:16,800
It was, it was great solace. 
In fact, when they enter up, Get

408
00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:19,300
me to do the stuff they want to 
do was really a break. 

409
00:19:19,300 --> 00:19:21,700
That was the only time where I 
lost a little bit of Peace just 

410
00:19:21,700 --> 00:19:24,400
because, you know, they were 
just trying to get me to give up

411
00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:27,900
information that I wasn't 
comfortable giving up and, you 

412
00:19:27,900 --> 00:19:31,700
know, but it, but regardless. 
No, I really look. 

413
00:19:31,700 --> 00:19:34,600
I've been I've been in Ministry 
for 20 years, so I knew when 

414
00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:37,700
this is the first time I dealt 
with law enforcement, certainly 

415
00:19:37,700 --> 00:19:41,100
not in this way, but I knew 
that, you know, this was coming 

416
00:19:41,100 --> 00:19:43,500
and I knew that you fight, evil 
long enough, you're going to 

417
00:19:43,500 --> 00:19:49,300
have evil push back on you. 
So I saw it as a gift that makes

418
00:19:49,300 --> 00:19:51,400
any sense. 
I saw this last thing. 

419
00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:56,300
Yeah, I was speaking to a 
Catholic apologist, who writes 

420
00:19:56,300 --> 00:19:57,700
books for a living and he was 
telling me. 

421
00:19:57,700 --> 00:20:00,300
He said, you know, if and when 
somebody comes to your door, 

422
00:20:00,300 --> 00:20:03,300
you'll have a lot of things to 
offer out and so you can offer 

423
00:20:03,300 --> 00:20:06,800
up all of that time and that 
frustration, and that experience

424
00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:09,100
of evil and and it sounds like 
you did that. 

425
00:20:09,100 --> 00:20:11,200
Let's talk about what your wife 
told you afterwards. 

426
00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:13,600
Because that's got to be a black
hole that she saw you disappear 

427
00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:18,600
into and 810 hours is forever. 
For a worried spouse and then 

428
00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:21,100
especially a spouse that's 
taking care of your seven 

429
00:20:21,100 --> 00:20:23,300
children. 
At the same time, what was her 

430
00:20:23,300 --> 00:20:25,400
experience? 
You know, they took you away, 

431
00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:27,800
I'm guessing it puts you in a 
Suburban before and then they 

432
00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:30,300
want continue to search the 
house or what was the next now? 

433
00:20:30,300 --> 00:20:32,600
They actually never came in the 
house. 

434
00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:37,100
Even really some some articles 
kind of said that it just the 

435
00:20:37,100 --> 00:20:40,800
guns were over the threshold, my
wife, we came out to them, the 

436
00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:45,100
children came to the doorstep as
I could I think them the crying 

437
00:20:45,100 --> 00:20:48,500
screaming you know Terrorized 
him, don't take him. 

438
00:20:48,500 --> 00:20:51,300
He's my best friend. 
My little youngest five year old

439
00:20:52,300 --> 00:20:55,000
saying that but then she took 
them to co-op that day because 

440
00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:57,500
she said, you know, being at 
home is going to be good for 

441
00:20:57,500 --> 00:20:59,700
them. 
I need to get him a normal day 

442
00:20:59,700 --> 00:21:01,900
or as much of a normal day as 
possible. 

443
00:21:02,700 --> 00:21:05,400
And of course, it would just 
they go stir crazy thinking 

444
00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:08,000
about what's going on if they 
didn't do that. 

445
00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:10,600
So and then she was surrounded 
by great prayer. 

446
00:21:11,100 --> 00:21:13,800
She was a, she's a woman that's 
grew up in Ministry herself. 

447
00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:16,500
So not that she's experienced 
this before. 

448
00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:20,000
But she certainly understands 
the way of the Cross and the 

449
00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:22,900
journey. 
So she had great faith through 

450
00:21:22,900 --> 00:21:25,700
it all, of course, she was 
trying to stay strong for the 

451
00:21:25,700 --> 00:21:30,900
kids and when we reunited she 
collapsed in my arms but yeah 

452
00:21:30,900 --> 00:21:32,800
she was very strong. 
She's been a rock through the 

453
00:21:32,808 --> 00:21:35,800
whole thing and I think that's 
the only way you can do things 

454
00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:37,700
like this. 
If you don't have a partner in 

455
00:21:37,700 --> 00:21:41,900
them in facing down, evil that 
that understands what the what's

456
00:21:41,900 --> 00:21:44,100
being asked of you and why are 
you have to do it? 

457
00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:45,700
That, you know they don't 
necessarily think any of us 

458
00:21:45,700 --> 00:21:48,000
really know. 
Hi, there's so much evil in the 

459
00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:51,200
world or or what justifies it, 
you know, falling on us. 

460
00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:54,800
But at the same time when it 
does, it's a, you know, I know 

461
00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:57,700
that if you don't have that 
support that that they make it 

462
00:21:57,700 --> 00:22:00,900
twice as hard, especially with. 
Yeah, I'm sorry cut y'all cop. 

463
00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:03,000
No, thank you. 
How strong she is. 

464
00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:05,700
So two weeks before the trial on
January, 6. 

465
00:22:05,700 --> 00:22:07,900
I know, we'll get into the 
trial, but two weeks before the 

466
00:22:07,900 --> 00:22:11,400
trial, actually, three weeks. 
I see, I went to my attorneys. 

467
00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:14,100
I said they're going to offer a 
plea agreement and they said no,

468
00:22:14,100 --> 00:22:15,400
the federal government that 
doesn't offer. 

469
00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:16,500
Please. 
You got off early. 

470
00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:17,600
Ali. 
I said, well, I'm not going to 

471
00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:21,300
offer a pre a plea. 
So on January 6 at 5:00 p.m., 

472
00:22:21,300 --> 00:22:27,100
it's a Friday of all days down, 
January, 26, the doj offers a 

473
00:22:27,100 --> 00:22:34,300
plea agreement and it comes in 
my 0 to 6 months. 

474
00:22:35,100 --> 00:22:40,100
No, no probation, requested and 
plead guilty to the second count

475
00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:42,600
of face time. 
So I said, well, I'm not going 

476
00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:44,700
to take that but I said let me 
talk to my wife and then I was 

477
00:22:44,700 --> 00:22:46,500
just not going to take it 
because you're innocent. 

478
00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:49,000
And two. 
If you took it, you wouldn't be 

479
00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:51,300
allowed home. 
So that's the type of woman who 

480
00:22:51,308 --> 00:22:53,900
I'm married to. 
I love it, I really do. 

481
00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:57,400
Yeah, thirdly we need case law. 
So we're going to risk risk. 

482
00:22:57,400 --> 00:22:58,700
What? 
We need to risk for the good of 

483
00:22:58,708 --> 00:23:02,100
the movement. 
It's amazing and it does show 

484
00:23:02,100 --> 00:23:04,200
you. 
Like I said, if you don't have 

485
00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:06,700
somebody, who understands that, 
my wife had the same thoughts 

486
00:23:06,700 --> 00:23:09,400
about the Copic Ciao's. 
I said, you know, is it worth me

487
00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:12,800
lose my job over this? 
Because we got a good job and 

488
00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:15,800
she said a hunt. 
She said, you can't get it 

489
00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:19,100
because I won't let you. 
And I don't, it's not an option.

490
00:23:19,100 --> 00:23:20,900
You'd like this is not a 
negotiation, you're going to be 

491
00:23:20,900 --> 00:23:23,400
having, you know what's, right? 
And you know, it's like that's 

492
00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:25,000
that's where your heart is. 
Then we're all on it. 

493
00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:28,600
And so, you know, it does make 
it easier to stand against the 

494
00:23:28,608 --> 00:23:32,600
forces of evil and the forces of
Of whatever, the secular sort of

495
00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:35,600
movement, that's happening right
now, in this country and the 

496
00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:37,300
politicization that's happening 
in doj. 

497
00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:40,100
When you got that, that second 
person who's got your back, 

498
00:23:40,100 --> 00:23:40,900
who's got? 
Just a hand. 

499
00:23:40,900 --> 00:23:43,200
They're letting, you know, like,
no, no, you're not crazy. 

500
00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:45,200
I always feel like there's a 
sanity check required to. 

501
00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:47,600
I mean, did you ask yourself? 
Hey, is there any chance that I 

502
00:23:47,608 --> 00:23:50,400
was in the wrong here? 
Or do that kind of examination, 

503
00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:53,700
or where did you just know that?
This was, this was your job as a

504
00:23:53,708 --> 00:23:56,300
dad, and there's no question. 
Yeah, it was, it was Dad 

505
00:23:56,300 --> 00:23:57,700
instincts. 
I mean, of course, there's 

506
00:23:57,700 --> 00:24:00,100
always a replay of it, you know,
afterwards. 

507
00:24:00,300 --> 00:24:03,600
And you know, and you just kind 
of cross check it all and then 

508
00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:06,200
you know, as I got home and 
talked to my wife about she 

509
00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:10,200
says, you did exactly what I 
would want you to do as a 

510
00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:11,800
father. 
If you're going to take my son 

511
00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:15,300
into the city with you and he's 
going to get, he's In Harm's 

512
00:24:15,300 --> 00:24:19,400
Way, I want you to protect him. 
So, you know, again just 

513
00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:22,100
affirming what I did, you know, 
you did, what I would want you 

514
00:24:22,108 --> 00:24:25,000
to do, you did what a good dad 
does. 

515
00:24:25,100 --> 00:24:27,900
And at that point, I think you 
just let it go because you're 

516
00:24:27,900 --> 00:24:30,000
just, you're just in you're just
reacting it. 

517
00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:32,400
That point. 
It's not like a meditative 

518
00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:35,600
that's motive, right? 
If I had a motive to to hurt 

519
00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:38,200
this man. 
Then of course I'm guilty but I 

520
00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:41,700
reacted to him continually 
pursuing, my sound and harassing

521
00:24:41,700 --> 00:24:43,500
him. 
So yeah. 

522
00:24:43,500 --> 00:24:45,300
That I think that was clear to 
the jury. 

523
00:24:45,900 --> 00:24:48,500
Well and like I said, I'd look 
like restraint from my end of 

524
00:24:48,500 --> 00:24:51,300
things just knowing how what 
tempers look like. 

525
00:24:51,300 --> 00:24:54,600
And like I said, the size that 
you're familiar mo guy as far as

526
00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:57,400
just your overall size. 
You you work with you know your 

527
00:24:57,400 --> 00:24:59,100
website says you work with 
thousands of men you've been 

528
00:24:59,100 --> 00:25:01,800
teaching men Ministry for a long
time. 

529
00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:04,200
Do you talk about things like 
this before? 

530
00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:06,400
I'm sure you do. 
Now, that's easy to add that 

531
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:08,400
into the repertoire, but is this
something you've talked about 

532
00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:12,400
facing down, you know, as a 
father and, and and maybe the 

533
00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:17,400
Christian and Catholic way of 
being a defensive and aggressive

534
00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:19,000
male. 
And, and when you have to be 

535
00:25:19,500 --> 00:25:22,400
sure, great question fact, it's 
never been asked to me like that

536
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:23,700
before. 
So that's interesting. 

537
00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:26,000
Our mission is leader protector 
providers. 

538
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:29,300
So we talked about, you know, 
engaging the cultural War. 

539
00:25:29,300 --> 00:25:31,900
We talk to men. 
About and protecting women and 

540
00:25:31,900 --> 00:25:34,700
children first, and then the 
common good. 

541
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:37,800
And so, it's always been talked 
about in that way, and it's 

542
00:25:37,900 --> 00:25:39,700
certainly something I talk 
about. 

543
00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:43,100
But during this trial, or this 
journey to try, I was not 

544
00:25:43,100 --> 00:25:46,400
allowed to speak and really 
could not talk about the case 

545
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:49,500
because it would jeopardize 
potentially to our case. 

546
00:25:49,900 --> 00:25:54,200
So I really just started adding 
it into the repertoire, the last

547
00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:56,600
two weeks. 
So, it's kind of raw for me, 

548
00:25:56,600 --> 00:26:01,200
which is good in a way because 
I'm I'm, I'm Putting it all 

549
00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:03,400
together, right? 
Putting the spiritual element of

550
00:26:03,408 --> 00:26:07,700
it all the unit of element of 
the will of God, and your will 

551
00:26:08,300 --> 00:26:11,200
coming together in the 
Magnificent moment of the 

552
00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:14,100
journey. 
So that's going to continually 

553
00:26:14,100 --> 00:26:19,100
grow, I think, as I talk to man,
but, but, you know, we've talked

554
00:26:19,100 --> 00:26:20,600
them combatives, is a lot of 
things. 

555
00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:23,400
You, we talked them, combatives,
we taught them survival 

556
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:26,700
training, and things like that 
will take them and, and it's all

557
00:26:26,700 --> 00:26:28,300
Theory, right? 
It's all stuff that we're 

558
00:26:28,300 --> 00:26:30,100
proposing. 
It was never actually played. 

559
00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:34,700
It out like it did my case so 
you know it's actually new 

560
00:26:34,700 --> 00:26:38,900
material for me, I would say. 
But it's yeah, I went, I guess 

561
00:26:38,900 --> 00:26:41,600
there's something, you know, the
military does a thing called 

562
00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:44,600
stress inoculation, and if 
you've been teaching this for 

563
00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:47,400
this long, the stress 
inoculation is that we give you 

564
00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:49,600
a taste of stress in a 
controlled environment. 

565
00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:51,800
We talk you through it, you go 
through the thought, process of 

566
00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:56,000
it, and then when you experience
it, nobody Rises to the moment, 

567
00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:58,600
they fall to the level of their 
of what they've considered. 

568
00:26:58,700 --> 00:27:01,200
Now, it's one of the reasons why
I think of Fell so far backward 

569
00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:04,100
in 2020. 
Is that nobody had prepared. 

570
00:27:04,300 --> 00:27:06,500
Where's the Line in the Sand? 
Do I know where it is? 

571
00:27:06,500 --> 00:27:08,800
Do I know how many steps back I 
can back pedal before I have to 

572
00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:11,600
plant and so many people walked 
right over where their line 

573
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:13,300
would have been if they had time
to think about it. 

574
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:16,400
And in your case, it's exactly 
that it's like, look, I'm 

575
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:18,300
willing to have somebody say, a 
couple things but the minute 

576
00:27:18,300 --> 00:27:22,100
you, you start defending the 
very gentle heart of my of my 

577
00:27:22,100 --> 00:27:23,800
child. 
Who's it's my only purpose on 

578
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:27,600
this world. 
You step into that space and and

579
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:29,900
then, whatever happens next, you
don't have to plan it. 

580
00:27:30,100 --> 00:27:32,900
You've already decided like 
you've snapped what we called 

581
00:27:32,900 --> 00:27:35,100
flipping the switch in the 
military, but once you flip the 

582
00:27:35,100 --> 00:27:37,000
switch, you've just engaged. 
What of that program is in your 

583
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:40,200
program is protect. 
We you say, again, the roles 

584
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:42,400
that you said that, you teach 
men a little bit slower. 

585
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:45,400
Just so I could get a schmear? 
Yes, sure. 

586
00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:48,300
So, so in the years that I've 
been doing this, we kind of 

587
00:27:48,300 --> 00:27:53,500
defined men and their roles As 
Leaders protectors and 

588
00:27:53,500 --> 00:27:56,500
providers. 
And so that's at bills off the, 

589
00:27:56,500 --> 00:28:00,000
the supernatural priest prophet 
and King, you know, the priest. 

590
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:03,300
Sacrifices, he lays his life 
down, a leader, lays his life, 

591
00:28:03,300 --> 00:28:07,900
he's a servant leader, you know,
the king he's, he's looking out 

592
00:28:07,900 --> 00:28:11,500
for the common good those in his
custody and he provides for 

593
00:28:11,500 --> 00:28:14,100
them. 
And of course, you know, the 

594
00:28:14,100 --> 00:28:17,300
prophet, you know, he he's the 
voice of God, he's the 

595
00:28:17,300 --> 00:28:20,300
mouthpiece of God. 
And so, he's giving prophetic 

596
00:28:20,300 --> 00:28:25,200
words and words are are going to
lead to, to either salvation or 

597
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:28,900
lead to damnation, you know. 
So there's a protective element 

598
00:28:28,900 --> 00:28:31,700
of that to wear. 
He's like do this or else. 

599
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:34,600
So but we really try to chunk it
for men. 

600
00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:39,300
In a more understandable way. 
Leader, protector, provider, do 

601
00:28:39,300 --> 00:28:43,200
you think that there's a lot of 
men that don't have any 

602
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:45,800
experience with any of those 
roles and that that you're what 

603
00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:48,000
you're proposing them is new to?
Or is it something that they 

604
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:51,400
feel deep down but they don't 
have a lot of training in know 

605
00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:54,800
that men are the they don't have
any training in this at least 

606
00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:59,100
catechetical e, they don't from 
a religious education 

607
00:28:59,100 --> 00:29:01,700
standpoint. 
Zero because I had zero when I 

608
00:29:01,708 --> 00:29:03,700
have 22 years of private 
Catholic Education. 

609
00:29:03,700 --> 00:29:05,700
So, right. 
And then, of course, you know, I

610
00:29:05,708 --> 00:29:08,400
got the football Acumen. 
I got the athletic Acumen, which

611
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:13,500
gives you a great degree of of 
training in the sense of, you 

612
00:29:13,500 --> 00:29:17,300
know, working towards something.
But but frankly, I can't 

613
00:29:17,300 --> 00:29:23,000
translate defending my Endzone 
to defending my son, quite the 

614
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:24,800
same. 
So it's really something. 

615
00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:29,100
I've had to grow in to myself 
because I didn't have a father. 

616
00:29:29,100 --> 00:29:31,700
He passed away when I was 11. 
So, a lot of men that are 

617
00:29:31,700 --> 00:29:35,400
growing up with passive fathers,
fathers were a feminized 

618
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:38,700
emasculated in the culture and, 
and emasculated frankly by their

619
00:29:38,700 --> 00:29:43,300
spouses. 
So they really come to us, not 

620
00:29:43,300 --> 00:29:47,500
sure of themselves questioning 
themselves and certainly this in

621
00:29:47,500 --> 00:29:51,000
a, in the false feminine world 
that's out there they would 

622
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:53,500
might even take pause hearing 
some of the words so we really 

623
00:29:53,500 --> 00:29:58,100
have to you know help them 
understand and really grow into 

624
00:29:58,100 --> 00:30:02,300
that into those roles and The 
lens of Christ and, and help 

625
00:30:02,300 --> 00:30:04,900
them see almost kind of defended
that way. 

626
00:30:05,700 --> 00:30:07,200
And then, of course living it, 
you know? 

627
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:09,900
And so now I'm living it, you 
know. 

628
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:13,600
It has more, as more tangible 
feel for men, I'm sure you have 

629
00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:15,300
no, definitely. 
I have to agree with that. 

630
00:30:15,300 --> 00:30:17,000
You're you're speaking my 
language. 

631
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:20,100
My dad's father actually passed 
when he was about 11 or 12. 

632
00:30:20,100 --> 00:30:23,000
And he told me when I was very 
young, that the only thing that 

633
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:26,000
he dreamed of doing when he grew
up starting from the time, he 

634
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:28,900
was a, you know, an early teen 
was being a father and being 

635
00:30:28,900 --> 00:30:31,900
there for his children. 
My dad has six children, I'm one

636
00:30:31,900 --> 00:30:35,400
of six so I'm at the top end of 
the oldest ones and we've got 

637
00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:38,200
three right now. 
But so I feel you that there is 

638
00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:41,600
a lot of that lacking and I was 
very fortunate that, you know, 

639
00:30:41,608 --> 00:30:44,200
my father is 72 years old and 
still runs a chain saw and has a

640
00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:48,300
kind of a physicality about him.
We're always shoveling things 

641
00:30:48,300 --> 00:30:50,500
and moving around and he's, you 
know, he's a man who goes and 

642
00:30:50,500 --> 00:30:53,800
works out in the gym every day 
at, you know, 72, which is not 

643
00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:55,600
nothing. 
That a lot of men are looking 

644
00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:57,800
for, in this culture, they're 
sitting behind a desk and 

645
00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:00,300
they're typing, and they've put 
the values and money and And 

646
00:31:00,300 --> 00:31:03,100
what not, but not necessarily in
those those very Primal 

647
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:06,000
masculine role. 
So I think it's interesting when

648
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:08,400
you stepped in and you are now 
kind of representing. 

649
00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:10,300
You said it's wrong for the last
couple weeks since you're just 

650
00:31:10,300 --> 00:31:11,800
now getting able to talk about 
it. 

651
00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:14,600
Sure, we're you working 
curriculum. 

652
00:31:14,900 --> 00:31:16,900
That you were kind of thinking 
that is going to go into your, 

653
00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:20,100
your, your seminars and your 
speeches and just using that as 

654
00:31:20,100 --> 00:31:22,500
a way to keep your mouth shut 
when you have to not talk to the

655
00:31:22,500 --> 00:31:25,400
media because it's I know it's 
very hard to not speak when you 

656
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:27,300
know that there's things that 
are going on, people are saying 

657
00:31:27,300 --> 00:31:29,400
things wrong and they're getting
your story inaccurate and all 

658
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:31,400
that. 
Yeah, it took a lot of 

659
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:34,500
self-discipline took a lot of 
self-mastery to just bite my 

660
00:31:34,500 --> 00:31:37,900
tongue and even the trial is 
just an exercise in that because

661
00:31:37,900 --> 00:31:40,800
you know, they're saying all 
sorts of things about you and 

662
00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:43,800
you really, you got a jury 
looking at you the whole time 

663
00:31:43,900 --> 00:31:46,700
and you really need that. 
It's not a poker face but it's 

664
00:31:46,700 --> 00:31:48,100
the only way I can explain it, 
right? 

665
00:31:48,100 --> 00:31:50,800
You just a, you got to have 
almost as stoicism about 

666
00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:54,900
yourself that not cold, but 
just, you're not going to give 

667
00:31:54,900 --> 00:31:57,900
it a giveaway, you know, 
something that might make them 

668
00:31:57,900 --> 00:32:00,900
turn on you. 
So for me, I just Had to just I 

669
00:32:00,900 --> 00:32:03,800
entered into it through, through
prayer continual prayer. 

670
00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:06,300
But I might one of my priest 
friends, dear priest, friends 

671
00:32:06,300 --> 00:32:09,200
married, my wife and I, he said,
I want you to journal about 

672
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:12,600
this, and I hate journaling. 
So I started journaling and I 

673
00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:16,500
started seeing this as the lens,
or through the lens, I should 

674
00:32:16,500 --> 00:32:19,100
say, of the way of the Cross 
Stations of the Cross. 

675
00:32:19,100 --> 00:32:23,500
And so, as I began with my 
arraignment on September 27th 

676
00:32:23,500 --> 00:32:27,700
two leading up to the trial, it 
was it was this the 14 Stations 

677
00:32:27,700 --> 00:32:29,900
of the Cross and so for me that 
was a great. 

678
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:32,400
Great way to throw my thoughts 
down. 

679
00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:36,000
So that's to your question of 
curricula or curriculum, that I 

680
00:32:36,008 --> 00:32:38,300
would be developing. 
It would be, it would be coming 

681
00:32:38,300 --> 00:32:42,400
from that directly because those
are my ruminations on what was 

682
00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:46,300
going on, how I was feeling and,
and I'm drawing on that. 

683
00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:50,400
I find myself rereading it to 
kind of strengthen the message, 

684
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:54,100
so that you can truly give the 
visceral experience to men. 

685
00:32:54,100 --> 00:32:56,500
Not just like, oh, this happened
to me? 

686
00:32:56,500 --> 00:32:59,200
No, I'll take you back and I'll 
take you exactly to how I was 

687
00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:01,500
feeling. 
I think it's very impactful 

688
00:33:01,700 --> 00:33:03,400
things important for people to 
hear. 

689
00:33:03,900 --> 00:33:07,100
It's probably important for me 
to hear myself said so I can 

690
00:33:07,500 --> 00:33:12,400
live it and truly embrace it 
because it's one thing to have a

691
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:14,000
thoughts. 
Nothing to have that action you 

692
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:17,200
know where now you're putting it
out there and people are hearing

693
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:19,200
it and then it becomes part of 
you. 

694
00:33:19,500 --> 00:33:25,500
And so that's where we're at. 
I think a very natural reaction 

695
00:33:25,500 --> 00:33:28,700
to this and I read some of the 
articles that were written from,

696
00:33:28,700 --> 00:33:31,300
you know, journalists or 
Whatever they're called activist

697
00:33:31,300 --> 00:33:34,000
on both sides, where you'll see,
you know, it's a pro-life 

698
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:37,700
activist or an anti-abortion 
protestors, you were framed into

699
00:33:37,700 --> 00:33:39,900
very, very different lights and 
we had some articles we pulled 

700
00:33:39,900 --> 00:33:42,800
up that film, I choked, you 
know, Rolling Stones had one way

701
00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:46,300
to talk about it and then, you 
know, Fox News and the Catholic,

702
00:33:46,500 --> 00:33:48,900
you know, like News-Press and 
stuff would go the other way 

703
00:33:48,900 --> 00:33:51,100
with it. 
And, and in the meantime, you 

704
00:33:51,100 --> 00:33:53,000
can't say anything about it. 
And I think a very natural 

705
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:56,700
reaction would be to be 
infuriated, or at least be angry

706
00:33:56,700 --> 00:33:58,500
about the situation while I 
mean, number one. 

707
00:33:58,500 --> 00:34:00,800
And then also, you know, all 
these things, Happening and you 

708
00:34:00,808 --> 00:34:02,800
can't interact with them, did 
you? 

709
00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:05,700
You know, how did you because 
you sound, very calm right now. 

710
00:34:05,700 --> 00:34:07,600
And you sound like you've 
digested this in a very good 

711
00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:11,400
way, do you reflect on, you 
know, taking anger as as one of 

712
00:34:11,408 --> 00:34:14,900
the very normal human emotions 
and, and how you kind of 

713
00:34:14,900 --> 00:34:17,000
redirected that, was that part 
of your process at all? 

714
00:34:19,699 --> 00:34:22,400
These are great questions by the
because no one really gets this 

715
00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:24,300
deep. 
And this is good, because now I 

716
00:34:24,308 --> 00:34:26,800
have a temperament, we all have 
a temperament is god-given. 

717
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:30,500
And so, you know, my temperament
I do my temperament I know, I 

718
00:34:30,500 --> 00:34:35,199
know my abilities to get excited
and and lose temper. 

719
00:34:35,199 --> 00:34:39,400
If I, if I get my buttons pushed
in this case, you know, I look 

720
00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:42,100
at his righteous anger, I'm not 
really looking at is like an 

721
00:34:42,100 --> 00:34:45,199
angry man. 
If I pray for Bruce love, I pray

722
00:34:45,199 --> 00:34:46,800
for all the collaborators of 
abortion. 

723
00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:50,199
I pray for all those people and 
I have been not because I'm in 

724
00:34:50,199 --> 00:34:54,000
this situation because I always 
do and I know they're wounded. 

725
00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:57,800
I know that they're they're 
hurting and and so, you know, 

726
00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:01,100
there's a part of me that even 
hurts that I had to do that to 

727
00:35:01,100 --> 00:35:04,100
mr. 
Love, you know, like there's a 

728
00:35:04,107 --> 00:35:07,500
part of me that just doesn't 
want to do that to him but know 

729
00:35:07,500 --> 00:35:11,400
that I had no choice in a sense 
as a dad. 

730
00:35:11,700 --> 00:35:16,300
So you know I do reflect on that
and I say, you know, if I meet 

731
00:35:16,300 --> 00:35:20,700
him I would talk to him and tell
him how much, you know, God 

732
00:35:20,700 --> 00:35:23,200
loves them and nothing would 
change for me. 

733
00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:25,600
So that's truly where my heart 
is. 

734
00:35:25,700 --> 00:35:29,100
When it approaches the evil of 
abortion, we go to confront 

735
00:35:29,100 --> 00:35:31,600
evil. 
You really need to be disposed 

736
00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:34,100
of properly and I think this 
goes to temperament when I'm 

737
00:35:34,100 --> 00:35:36,600
there, I'm fasting. 
Okay? 

738
00:35:36,700 --> 00:35:39,500
I'm always fasting when I'm 
there, and I'm always praying 

739
00:35:39,500 --> 00:35:43,300
when I'm there and I'm always 
binding demons and, and, and the

740
00:35:43,300 --> 00:35:46,300
evil that is there. 
So I know I'm in this spiritual 

741
00:35:46,300 --> 00:35:48,800
battle and I know I'm putting on
the armor of God, and I know 

742
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:53,300
when it comes after me that that
there needs to be holy spirit. 

743
00:35:53,300 --> 00:35:59,200
Encapsulating it and so for me, 
all of this has been a gift and 

744
00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:01,800
all of this Happening to me. 
And my family has been a 

745
00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:05,000
blessing. 
I see God's hand in it from the 

746
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:10,400
beginning to this conversation. 
I see the true Grayson at all 

747
00:36:10,500 --> 00:36:14,200
the disgrace in it for me. 
Now in the in the Articles 

748
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:17,000
you'll see me as a hero or a 
villain. 

749
00:36:17,300 --> 00:36:19,400
And truth be told I'm somewhere 
in between, right? 

750
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:22,000
I'm not, I'm not quite the 
villain of course and I'm not 

751
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:23,900
the saying everyone wants to 
make me out to be. 

752
00:36:23,900 --> 00:36:28,400
I'm a sinner but you know I know
I know that I'm on the journey 

753
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:32,900
and and so This is a part of it 
and so this is how I become 

754
00:36:32,900 --> 00:36:34,800
Holier by going to the abortion 
Mill. 

755
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:38,700
It's you were saying that when 
you're there, and when you say 

756
00:36:38,700 --> 00:36:41,000
that you're in on the streets in
front of these clinics, do you 

757
00:36:41,008 --> 00:36:43,600
go to more than one clinic? 
Or is it just the one that your?

758
00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:47,200
Yeah, I'll do it. 
I'll go to multiple clinics this

759
00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:48,600
one. 
I like the most because I can 

760
00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:52,400
walk right up with the girls to 
the very door and I like being 

761
00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:55,300
able to get that close and have 
that conversation, but it's one,

762
00:36:55,300 --> 00:36:58,400
that's the one I prefer to be at
but I've been to all six of them

763
00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:02,100
that are in the area. 
Throughout the last 20 years, do

764
00:37:02,100 --> 00:37:06,300
you do see women turn away and 
and receive what you're saying 

765
00:37:06,300 --> 00:37:08,800
and make a different Choice than
what they came there to do. 

766
00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:11,900
Does that happen? 
All the time. 

767
00:37:11,900 --> 00:37:15,600
It's, it's wonderful. 
I mean, it brings us to the 

768
00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:20,400
point where it's wow. 
I can be used by God as a broken

769
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:23,400
valve. 
Oil instrument to help save one 

770
00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:26,600
of his children and to hold 
these babies in my own home. 

771
00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:31,200
Have my kids, hold them to be 
invited to their parties and 

772
00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:34,700
their, their families growth as 
a result of choosing life. 

773
00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:37,300
It's just a tremendous gift to 
me. 

774
00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:41,700
And so I would say, you know, 
the last 20 years Has been over 

775
00:37:41,700 --> 00:37:44,700
probably over 100 babies, that 
have been saved, you know, 

776
00:37:44,700 --> 00:37:46,800
through my direct and indirect 
involvement. 

777
00:37:47,100 --> 00:37:51,300
That's incredible. 
So, and this is kind of a, it's 

778
00:37:51,300 --> 00:37:53,200
almost an embarrassing 
disclosure because my wife, 

779
00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:55,600
first of all, my wife grew up in
Brooklyn as an atheist. 

780
00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:57,500
And so, I'll just kind of give 
you come to our little bit of 

781
00:37:57,500 --> 00:38:01,300
our family background had, no 
religion, no interest in 

782
00:38:01,300 --> 00:38:04,000
religion growing up and would 
have been, you know, a a 

783
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:06,800
die-hard left of this and 
certainly a pro-abortion type 

784
00:38:07,100 --> 00:38:10,400
until until she became a mother 
and I didn't. 

785
00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:11,700
We think about it that much at 
all. 

786
00:38:11,700 --> 00:38:14,300
It wasn't a thing that was much 
on my radar, but honestly, the 

787
00:38:14,300 --> 00:38:16,500
minute that we first had our 
oldest daughter. 

788
00:38:16,500 --> 00:38:20,400
So that's about six years. 
Now, it changed the way that we 

789
00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:23,800
looked at the world in a big way
and it is radically changed my 

790
00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:26,600
wife heart. 
She she was baptized at Easter 

791
00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:30,700
last year and became a Catholic 
and it's one of those really 

792
00:38:31,300 --> 00:38:33,400
kind of wild Transformations. 
You watch where, you know, my 

793
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:36,600
wife watches videos about what 
happens during abortions now and

794
00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:39,800
she sobs and I can always tell 
what she's been. 

795
00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:41,100
I'm like, why do you Do that to 
yourself. 

796
00:38:41,100 --> 00:38:43,100
And she said, I have to know, I 
have to know what I thought I 

797
00:38:43,107 --> 00:38:45,700
was supporting before and she 
does it almost as a Penance to 

798
00:38:45,700 --> 00:38:47,500
just really absorb that 
information. 

799
00:38:47,900 --> 00:38:51,400
And I think that a lot of people
would assume that what goes on 

800
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:55,200
and and I've been to the March 
for Life and I think 19 is that 

801
00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:57,500
when Trump spoke does that 
sometimes. 

802
00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:00,700
So my wife and I went there and 
I'm not a big fan of crowds, I 

803
00:39:00,707 --> 00:39:02,600
don't know if you know a lot of 
guys who have spent time in the 

804
00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:05,200
military and and then worked in 
law enforcement, but crowds are 

805
00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:07,500
not really a thing where into 
and it was the only place I felt

806
00:39:07,500 --> 00:39:10,400
like, if my two children had run
off and wandered around someone.

807
00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:11,800
Brought it back and I would have
been fine. 

808
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:15,400
It was such a special group of 
people and there's what 500,000 

809
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:18,100
people that come and walk in 
there and have been forever. 

810
00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:21,000
And so it was kind of amazing to
me to see that sort of thing and

811
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:23,900
realize what this most this 
movement is really about and it 

812
00:39:23,908 --> 00:39:25,900
wasn't a movement that I was 
familiar with until then my wife

813
00:39:25,900 --> 00:39:28,400
actually made me take leave and 
take the day off so that I could

814
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:31,300
go and walk there. 
And as we did it, it occurred to

815
00:39:31,300 --> 00:39:34,000
me that so many people have this
misconception that you're out 

816
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:36,500
there. 
Either shaming or heckling 

817
00:39:36,500 --> 00:39:38,600
women, who are making probably 
the worst decision of Their 

818
00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:40,300
Lives. 
Many of whom will never live it 

819
00:39:40,308 --> 00:39:43,300
down, Down to themselves. 
And and the reality of it is 

820
00:39:43,300 --> 00:39:46,600
something very very different 
and it's offering an alternative

821
00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:49,800
and then it sounds like also 
support a network of support. 

822
00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:52,300
Can you talk a little bit about,
you know what, the real 

823
00:39:52,300 --> 00:39:55,100
experiences and what is really 
being offered, are not as 

824
00:39:55,100 --> 00:39:56,800
opposed to maybe you're shaming 
people down. 

825
00:39:57,200 --> 00:39:59,000
Sure, shit. 
You know, no one's ever been 

826
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:03,800
converted through. 
Shame agreed or confrontation at

827
00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:08,200
that is condemning, I mean, 
shames part of the journey which

828
00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:13,900
shame is Old element of I did 
something wrong and you know the

829
00:40:13,900 --> 00:40:16,600
shame before God if you will. 
But no one really gets anywhere 

830
00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:19,300
with shame at the abortion Mill.
We go there and come with a 

831
00:40:19,308 --> 00:40:22,300
Compassionate, Heart, loving 
heart, a prayerful spirit. 

832
00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:25,600
And some of us sidewalk Council,
which was what I was doing. 

833
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:30,100
I feel called to do that and 
step into the Gap and engage 

834
00:40:30,100 --> 00:40:32,100
conversation. 
Some people don't they just a 

835
00:40:32,107 --> 00:40:35,700
prayer for presents and others, 
you know, they, you know, 

836
00:40:35,700 --> 00:40:38,900
they're just, they're there to 
hold a sign, you know, they may 

837
00:40:38,900 --> 00:40:41,800
just want to hold a sign and 
And, and be that Silent Witness 

838
00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:43,600
as well. 
But for me, I like to, I like to

839
00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:47,500
engage the women. 
As it offers me a chance to use 

840
00:40:47,500 --> 00:40:50,400
my gifting to help them. 
Now, we're there before they go 

841
00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:53,000
in where there while they're in 
there, praying for them, and 

842
00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:54,400
we're there for them when they 
come out. 

843
00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:57,600
So, you know, we're there, 
whether they have an abortion or

844
00:40:57,600 --> 00:41:00,000
not, you know, they had an 
abortion, we're going to offer 

845
00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:02,800
them healing, we're going to 
encourage them to name. 

846
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:06,000
Their baby would encourage them 
to pray to their child, you 

847
00:41:06,008 --> 00:41:07,400
know? 
Yeah, those are hard things to 

848
00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:10,300
hear, maybe after you come out, 
but they're necessary to here. 

849
00:41:10,500 --> 00:41:14,400
First, they need to know that 
that child is known and it's a 

850
00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:18,600
top known to God and that might 
be a seed that's planted that. 

851
00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:21,500
Maybe they'll remember one day 
but would take them to a 

852
00:41:21,500 --> 00:41:24,600
Pregnancy Resource Center. 
If they, if they don't go in, 

853
00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:27,300
they have the courage not to go 
in or they come out because they

854
00:41:27,300 --> 00:41:29,500
can't go through with it. 
Will go take them to a Pregnancy

855
00:41:29,500 --> 00:41:32,400
Resource Center. 
So the movement has a lot to 

856
00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:35,900
offer certainly, we're talking 
eleventh-hour offerings but girl

857
00:41:35,900 --> 00:41:40,100
takes a plant abortion pill we 
can still help or 24 to 48 

858
00:41:40,100 --> 00:41:41,600
hours. 
Afterwards if she changes her 

859
00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:45,000
mind. 
So we've offered a lot to them 

860
00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:48,400
when they're in that moment now 
we're certainly their way in 

861
00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:51,900
advance with our hot lines with 
our counselors with our 

862
00:41:52,300 --> 00:41:54,900
ultrasound machines or mobile 
van units. 

863
00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:57,900
You know, we got a lot of stuff 
that we can do anything even in 

864
00:41:57,900 --> 00:42:00,500
advance, you know, mothers, 
homes maternity homes. 

865
00:42:01,700 --> 00:42:05,400
I think everyone has that Spirit
when they were there, I got two 

866
00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:06,700
questions in that they're not 
related to. 

867
00:42:06,707 --> 00:42:08,400
So I'm going to try to remember 
to come back to the second one. 

868
00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:11,300
The first one that I'm most 
curious how You open up that 

869
00:42:11,300 --> 00:42:13,000
conversation, you're walking on 
the sidewalk. 

870
00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:15,100
You see someone coming up. 
Obviously you can tell when 

871
00:42:15,100 --> 00:42:17,100
women are walking up so that 
kind of gives you an idea of the

872
00:42:17,100 --> 00:42:21,400
age, brackets, got to be a clue,
how do you initiate that 

873
00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:23,700
conversation? 
And and you know what's the 

874
00:42:23,700 --> 00:42:26,300
gamut of how? 
Well it goes, or maybe how bad 

875
00:42:26,300 --> 00:42:28,100
it goes? 
Yeah. 

876
00:42:28,100 --> 00:42:31,100
Been there for 20 years. 
You get you get good at 

877
00:42:31,100 --> 00:42:34,000
identifying who's there to go in
and who's there to not? 

878
00:42:34,300 --> 00:42:37,200
I'd say nine out of ten women I 
can guess who's going in now. 

879
00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:40,100
I don't always get the nine out 
of ten that they're there for 

880
00:42:40,100 --> 00:42:41,500
them. 
Portion because Planned 

881
00:42:41,500 --> 00:42:45,100
Parenthood offers a lot of 
things other than abortion but 

882
00:42:45,100 --> 00:42:47,600
you can kind of get a sense for 
the ones that are the way 

883
00:42:47,600 --> 00:42:51,000
they're dressed. 
They're dressed a certain way. 

884
00:42:52,100 --> 00:42:54,600
There's support sometimes 
surrounding them when they come 

885
00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:57,400
in, there's a hesitation in 
their face. 

886
00:42:57,900 --> 00:43:00,500
So you can pretty much know 
who's going in there for a 

887
00:43:00,500 --> 00:43:03,300
procedure surgical procedure or 
something else. 

888
00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:07,800
The chemical abortion. 
So, so the way I approach it 

889
00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:10,200
Kyle is I introduced myself. 
I see. 

890
00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:13,300
My name is Mark, right? 
Like how else would you 

891
00:43:13,308 --> 00:43:15,700
introduce yourself to somebody? 
Not some stranger. 

892
00:43:15,700 --> 00:43:17,900
Don't kill your baby like that 
would be the worst thing you 

893
00:43:17,908 --> 00:43:18,900
could say. 
Right. 

894
00:43:19,100 --> 00:43:21,900
You're right about them. 
Hi, my name is Mark. 

895
00:43:22,300 --> 00:43:24,500
I have some free literature here
for you. 

896
00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:28,500
I'm sorry you had to come here 
today, you know, these are some 

897
00:43:28,500 --> 00:43:32,700
of the things that I might say 
to begin that conversation and 

898
00:43:32,700 --> 00:43:34,900
you, I'm sure you get the whole 
gamut from someone who's willing

899
00:43:34,900 --> 00:43:37,600
to talk to you because they're 
polite and they're a nice person

900
00:43:37,600 --> 00:43:40,300
or someone who was going to tell
you to go pound sand. 

901
00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:44,000
And something awful and this is 
a good thing gets consensus. 

902
00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:45,200
I'm sure. 
Look. 

903
00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:46,500
Sometimes they don't want to 
talk to you. 

904
00:43:46,500 --> 00:43:48,600
Sometimes they're there for 
their second and third, fourth 

905
00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:50,200
abortion. 
So they've been down this road 

906
00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:55,400
before they're prepped in 
advance by the abortion industry

907
00:43:55,600 --> 00:43:57,800
to know that we're there. 
That's what I like to greet them

908
00:43:57,800 --> 00:43:59,200
way before they get to the 
building. 

909
00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:02,100
So if I identify someone that's 
coming, I'm going to get to them

910
00:44:02,100 --> 00:44:04,100
as quickly as possible. 
Maybe 100 feet away from the 

911
00:44:04,107 --> 00:44:05,500
building. 
So I have some time to build a 

912
00:44:05,508 --> 00:44:07,400
little bit of room of rapport 
with them. 

913
00:44:07,500 --> 00:44:10,300
And if there's a dude, I father 
walking with them. 

914
00:44:10,500 --> 00:44:12,100
Better believe. 
I'm going to be in his year. 

915
00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:15,400
Speaking to him, man to man vs. 
Talking to the girl because 

916
00:44:15,700 --> 00:44:19,700
that's where I can really speak 
into the heart of the situation.

917
00:44:19,900 --> 00:44:23,100
Because I'm a man and I'm also a
father, so I can talk to him 

918
00:44:23,100 --> 00:44:26,400
like a father. 
So, so in that regard, you know,

919
00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:29,400
we you really have to be, you 
got to be kind of shrewd about 

920
00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:31,300
it. 
You really have to see and if 

921
00:44:31,308 --> 00:44:33,600
they tell you, hey, I'm not 
interested, then you back off. 

922
00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:38,100
You cannot force this, you know,
it's just not going to go. 

923
00:44:38,100 --> 00:44:42,200
Well, if you do and, and She's 
asked you to leave her alone. 

924
00:44:42,200 --> 00:44:45,800
You leave her alone, but if she 
doesn't say anything, you 

925
00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:47,200
continue to press it a little 
bit. 

926
00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:49,000
Why? 
Because she's thinking about it,

927
00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:51,800
she's hearing these things. 
I'll say you're already a mother

928
00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:53,800
of your child. 
You're already a father, your 

929
00:44:53,800 --> 00:44:55,400
child. 
They don't think that, you know,

930
00:44:55,600 --> 00:44:58,000
they think I want to get rid of 
what's inside me? 

931
00:44:58,700 --> 00:45:01,000
Hey, one more day, give it one 
more day. 

932
00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:02,600
Let's talk. 
Let me take you over to get you 

933
00:45:02,600 --> 00:45:05,100
a cup of coffee, right? 
So I get some food in them. 

934
00:45:05,100 --> 00:45:07,600
They can't have the abortion 
anyway, so I'll get, I'll do 

935
00:45:07,600 --> 00:45:09,800
whatever I can to get some food 
in them, you know, or get 

936
00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:13,000
something in Body. 
So yeah, that's kind of what I 

937
00:45:13,008 --> 00:45:16,200
do. 
I mean and this is those are all

938
00:45:16,200 --> 00:45:18,800
sales techniques that I did 
corporate sales for a while, but

939
00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:20,500
that's what that is your sizing 
up a snail. 

940
00:45:20,500 --> 00:45:23,000
You're, you're trying to get a 
small win, you talk about, get 

941
00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:25,900
some food in that that bumps it 
down the line just a little bit 

942
00:45:26,100 --> 00:45:31,300
and just a little bit more time.
You're framing the situation 

943
00:45:31,300 --> 00:45:33,600
differently than maybe they were
they were thinking about it. 

944
00:45:33,900 --> 00:45:36,500
Do you think that technology the
way that it's changed? 

945
00:45:36,500 --> 00:45:38,400
And if you've been doing this 20
years then you know the 

946
00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:41,600
technology is trains changed. 
Ali, the ability to hear a fetal

947
00:45:41,600 --> 00:45:43,300
heart tones that you know what 
seven weeks. 

948
00:45:43,300 --> 00:45:47,500
Now, that was a game-changer for
me as a dad as a new dad. 

949
00:45:47,600 --> 00:45:49,700
And, and now it's just, you 
know, they've got the 3 D and 

950
00:45:49,700 --> 00:45:52,200
ultrasounds where you can see 
the face of your child over 

951
00:45:52,200 --> 00:45:53,700
there. 
You can tell this is a person. 

952
00:45:53,900 --> 00:45:55,300
There's no question in anybody's
mind. 

953
00:45:55,500 --> 00:45:57,500
Who looks at it. 
You can't decide. 

954
00:45:57,500 --> 00:45:59,400
Otherwise, now, you could decide
as a person that you don't want 

955
00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:01,200
to be in your life, that's a 
different animal. 

956
00:46:01,600 --> 00:46:03,300
But I don't think anybody can 
make the same decisions that 

957
00:46:03,300 --> 00:46:06,400
they did probably 20 years ago. 
You know, when I was just coming

958
00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:08,300
out of high school, that wasn't 
a thing that people could look 

959
00:46:08,300 --> 00:46:12,900
at, does that play into your Or 
do you think does that play into

960
00:46:12,900 --> 00:46:15,100
it differently? 
Now, I would say like a do what 

961
00:46:15,100 --> 00:46:17,300
you saw. 
I think every woman that goes in

962
00:46:17,300 --> 00:46:19,600
there knows they're killing 
their own child. 

963
00:46:19,600 --> 00:46:23,500
I think they're not deceived. 
It's not like a clump of cells 

964
00:46:24,300 --> 00:46:26,500
to them. 
That was the old line in the 70s

965
00:46:26,500 --> 00:46:30,300
and 80s, a compass child. 
But no, I think with the 

966
00:46:30,300 --> 00:46:35,400
technology all know that it's a 
baby and we have the fetal 

967
00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:38,700
models there and you know will 
certainly show them if a girl is

968
00:46:38,700 --> 00:46:42,900
somehow confused but I know it's
an inconvenience is what it is. 

969
00:46:42,900 --> 00:46:46,000
This is what this is what they 
know and this is their solution 

970
00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:48,600
to it. 
So there's really no question 

971
00:46:48,600 --> 00:46:52,100
that women are like confused 
like it's a blob of tissue or 

972
00:46:52,100 --> 00:46:54,800
something that doesn't exist 
anymore man. 

973
00:46:57,200 --> 00:46:59,300
Let's dig back into the trial a 
little bit. 

974
00:46:59,300 --> 00:47:01,700
I just wanted to know more about
your kind of your ministry on 

975
00:47:01,700 --> 00:47:03,700
the street there. 
I think it's really relevant and

976
00:47:03,700 --> 00:47:05,100
I think it's important for 
people to understand. 

977
00:47:05,100 --> 00:47:06,300
A lot of people have never seen 
it. 

978
00:47:06,300 --> 00:47:08,400
So I mean and it is a 
contentious issue. 

979
00:47:08,600 --> 00:47:11,500
It's also kind of a contentious 
moments But in people's lives, I

980
00:47:11,700 --> 00:47:14,800
it's amazing that you choose to 
engage in that to me on such a 

981
00:47:14,808 --> 00:47:17,800
regular basis because I think 
that's, that's a, you know, 

982
00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:21,300
getting out in people's faces. 
That way is, it's a challenge 

983
00:47:21,300 --> 00:47:23,100
and it's probably something that
keeps a lot of people from doing

984
00:47:23,100 --> 00:47:25,200
it just knowing because they 
don't want to engage human 

985
00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:27,100
beings the same way. 
But I want to dive into the 

986
00:47:27,107 --> 00:47:30,400
trial, the you had evidence 
presented against you. 

987
00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:33,300
How did the, how did the doj 
case even work other than like, 

988
00:47:33,300 --> 00:47:35,700
there was video of it and I 
assume they brought up mr. 

989
00:47:35,700 --> 00:47:39,700
Love Sure. 
So so we had incredible defense 

990
00:47:39,700 --> 00:47:43,600
team Thomas More Society is the 
calvary for anyone dealing with 

991
00:47:43,600 --> 00:47:45,800
something like this. 
We got the best attorney in 

992
00:47:45,800 --> 00:47:48,400
Philadelphia. 
Brian mcmoneagle, tremendous 

993
00:47:48,800 --> 00:47:52,500
criminal defense attorney. 
He defended Bill Cosby and got 

994
00:47:52,500 --> 00:47:56,000
him a hung jury. 
So he's a talented talented man.

995
00:47:57,000 --> 00:47:59,400
Nonetheless you know that was 
great team. 

996
00:48:00,500 --> 00:48:04,600
The government put on a strong 
argument, right? 

997
00:48:04,600 --> 00:48:08,700
As they will write had The 
number one guy for for the face 

998
00:48:08,700 --> 00:48:11,900
act, the guy that writes the 
manual for the face act and in 

999
00:48:11,900 --> 00:48:16,900
the second chair and then they 
had their lead prosecutor who 

1000
00:48:16,900 --> 00:48:22,800
was very talented herself and of
course they make the case and my

1001
00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:25,500
own daughter was in tears here 
in here in the case. 

1002
00:48:25,500 --> 00:48:29,000
So they put on the CEO of 
Southeastern. 

1003
00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:32,800
Pennsylvania Planned Parenthood,
they had Bruce love. 

1004
00:48:32,800 --> 00:48:35,300
Of course, as you mentioned, 
they had another woman who was 

1005
00:48:35,300 --> 00:48:37,600
there on the her first. 
Volunteering the day of the 

1006
00:48:37,600 --> 00:48:41,400
incident, another escort, they 
have the security detail at the 

1007
00:48:41,400 --> 00:48:46,800
time, the head security guy, who
looked at the tapes, deleted 

1008
00:48:46,800 --> 00:48:50,600
tapes, that would have helped 
our case and then they had to 

1009
00:48:50,600 --> 00:48:53,100
eye to eye witnesses that were 
in the community. 

1010
00:48:53,100 --> 00:48:56,300
That didn't know anybody, but 
had witnessed the incident, 

1011
00:48:56,600 --> 00:48:59,000
okay. 
And how did you feel? 

1012
00:48:59,400 --> 00:49:01,600
I mean, I read an article that 
said, your wife said we 

1013
00:49:01,600 --> 00:49:03,200
basically surrendered to God and
said we're doing the right 

1014
00:49:03,200 --> 00:49:05,500
thing. 
So we're we put ourself into his

1015
00:49:05,500 --> 00:49:08,700
hands and You know, we know that
we hope that'll come out, right?

1016
00:49:08,700 --> 00:49:10,800
We believe that it will, but, 
but you never know you're 

1017
00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:13,100
looking at 12 strangers. 
In a place that is not 

1018
00:49:13,100 --> 00:49:16,700
necessarily favorable to to a 
Christian father. 

1019
00:49:16,700 --> 00:49:21,900
Defending his son that maybe, 
you know, something against the 

1020
00:49:21,900 --> 00:49:24,700
beliefs of a jury like that. 
It's got to be Phillies pretty 

1021
00:49:24,700 --> 00:49:28,000
left-leaning area, right? 
So we'll said yeah, the 65 

1022
00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:31,900
jurors that were the pool. 
Most of them were volunteers of 

1023
00:49:31,900 --> 00:49:33,900
Planned, Parenthood. 
And most of them were donors to 

1024
00:49:33,900 --> 00:49:37,500
Planned Parenthood. 
So when we select The jury, it 

1025
00:49:37,500 --> 00:49:40,600
was little disheartening 
Tuesday, the 24th was tough day.

1026
00:49:42,100 --> 00:49:44,900
You know, we took the best shot 
that we could and we got 10 

1027
00:49:44,900 --> 00:49:49,200
strikes. 
They had 76 and were seven and 

1028
00:49:49,700 --> 00:49:52,200
yeah, we, I don't know. 
At the end of the day, when it 

1029
00:49:52,200 --> 00:49:55,100
was tough, it was a hard. 
It was a hard day to select a 

1030
00:49:55,107 --> 00:49:57,200
jury. 
Of course, I watched the whole 

1031
00:49:57,200 --> 00:49:58,600
thing. 
I hear everything. 

1032
00:49:58,900 --> 00:50:00,600
So my heart is kind of like, 
man. 

1033
00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:02,400
This could go either way. 
This is Phil. 

1034
00:50:02,400 --> 00:50:07,400
Yeah. 
And when they marched out, I 

1035
00:50:07,400 --> 00:50:09,300
meant. 
It was unanimously, acquitted. 

1036
00:50:09,300 --> 00:50:11,200
You, which is the way that it's 
got to go down, they didn't hang

1037
00:50:11,200 --> 00:50:13,200
the jury and they didn't come 
back out of the you're done with

1038
00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:17,400
this. 
This case now, right before they

1039
00:50:17,400 --> 00:50:20,600
let it go, did you have a moment
of prayer where you what was 

1040
00:50:20,600 --> 00:50:22,400
your thoughts, as you're sitting
in the chair or, you know, 

1041
00:50:22,400 --> 00:50:24,800
they'd ask you to stand up and 
and face the music that's going 

1042
00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:26,500
to be right out. 
Right? 

1043
00:50:26,500 --> 00:50:29,200
So yeah, I just finished piece 
throughout the whole trial, 

1044
00:50:29,900 --> 00:50:31,600
peace, peace Beyond 
understanding. 

1045
00:50:33,100 --> 00:50:36,000
It was A ton of prayer. 
A lot of rosaries were being 

1046
00:50:36,000 --> 00:50:39,400
said myself the daily readings, 
you know, working very consoling

1047
00:50:39,400 --> 00:50:44,300
to me a lot of hymns being sung 
in the jury and outside the jury

1048
00:50:44,300 --> 00:50:46,700
in the hallway and I'm sure the 
jury could hear it. 

1049
00:50:47,600 --> 00:50:50,900
But when it came time for that 
moment of truth, now we had to 

1050
00:50:50,900 --> 00:50:54,200
jurors that had to be removed 
what was removed the first day, 

1051
00:50:54,200 --> 00:50:55,800
because he had an economic 
hardship. 

1052
00:50:55,800 --> 00:51:00,000
So the alternate was put in and 
then they were deadlocked on 

1053
00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:02,700
Friday. 
The trial went the Tuesday to 

1054
00:51:02,700 --> 00:51:06,200
Friday On the 27th, they were 
deadlocked after two and a half 

1055
00:51:06,200 --> 00:51:08,700
hours. 
They judge said, come back on 

1056
00:51:08,700 --> 00:51:12,600
Monday morning, the 30th of 
January 2 weeks from tomorrow 

1057
00:51:12,900 --> 00:51:15,100
and where they say, they weren't
sequester during that time, 

1058
00:51:15,100 --> 00:51:17,400
obviously they were out just 
what their walk around reading 

1059
00:51:17,400 --> 00:51:20,500
media looking at media the 
certainly they're told not to 

1060
00:51:20,500 --> 00:51:22,200
but they certainly could have 
sure. 

1061
00:51:22,200 --> 00:51:26,200
So by the time we left on 
Friday, we thought most of the 

1062
00:51:26,200 --> 00:51:28,900
jurors were with us but he just 
don't know. 

1063
00:51:29,200 --> 00:51:32,900
So when we got there on Monday, 
the jury had passed a note to 

1064
00:51:32,900 --> 00:51:35,000
the judge. 
Judge, Gerald papert, it was 

1065
00:51:35,000 --> 00:51:37,100
phenomenal. 
And they said, we have a 

1066
00:51:37,100 --> 00:51:40,000
problem. 
One of the jurors is being 

1067
00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:42,900
extremely obstinate, and 
targeting other jurors. 

1068
00:51:43,300 --> 00:51:47,500
And so the judge interviewed 
each juror and we watch them go 

1069
00:51:47,500 --> 00:51:51,100
back into his personal Chambers 
and get information. 

1070
00:51:51,100 --> 00:51:54,800
Well, one guy was removed and 
then they brought the other 

1071
00:51:54,800 --> 00:51:56,100
alternate and they made the call
him. 

1072
00:51:56,100 --> 00:51:59,300
He was out in Lancaster or 
wherever he lived, and lived to 

1073
00:51:59,300 --> 00:52:01,400
call him in. 
So we're all waiting for him to 

1074
00:52:01,400 --> 00:52:03,400
come. 
As soon as he gets there, they 

1075
00:52:03,700 --> 00:52:06,400
They go into deliberate 
deliberation and within an hour 

1076
00:52:06,500 --> 00:52:10,800
that they have a verdict and 
that was, wow, verdict at 3 p.m.

1077
00:52:10,800 --> 00:52:14,900
in the afternoon eastern time. 
So, no coincidence there. 

1078
00:52:15,200 --> 00:52:18,100
And so, as they asked me, I 
actually sat, I thought you have

1079
00:52:18,100 --> 00:52:22,300
to stand, but they said, you 
know, Stacy the first count I 

1080
00:52:22,300 --> 00:52:24,700
thought I was going to get 
convicted on the second count, 

1081
00:52:25,300 --> 00:52:27,200
three elements. 
The first count for it for 

1082
00:52:27,200 --> 00:52:30,900
elements to the, to the, to the 
second Camp first count, mr. 

1083
00:52:30,900 --> 00:52:33,300
Mark, Hawk, we find the 
defendant not guilty. 

1084
00:52:33,700 --> 00:52:36,700
My hands were sweating I was I 
was nervous for the first time 

1085
00:52:37,000 --> 00:52:40,100
and then I truly felt my heart 
that you know that God was going

1086
00:52:40,100 --> 00:52:43,500
to give me a guilty verdict. 
I don't know maybe a lack of 

1087
00:52:43,500 --> 00:52:46,300
trust on my part I just knew 
whatever was going to happen. 

1088
00:52:46,700 --> 00:52:49,100
It was going to be for the best 
and I Was preparing my heart for

1089
00:52:49,100 --> 00:52:52,300
the and I said, even if I go to 
prison, it's for the best. 

1090
00:52:52,400 --> 00:52:56,000
That's right, it'll be what God 
wants because I knew I was in 

1091
00:52:56,000 --> 00:52:58,300
his will? 
I knew I was in his will, I 

1092
00:52:58,308 --> 00:53:02,900
didn't have to doubt that and 
when they said not guilty, I was

1093
00:53:02,900 --> 00:53:04,500
relieved. 
I couldn't believe it. 

1094
00:53:04,500 --> 00:53:07,700
I was like, wow, you know 
unnnnnnh, I was blown away, I 

1095
00:53:07,707 --> 00:53:11,000
Was preparing my family, prepare
your hearts because the view 

1096
00:53:11,000 --> 00:53:15,300
can't argue with the video, you 
know, the I push them right. 

1097
00:53:15,300 --> 00:53:19,500
I mean it's simple salt, right? 
At least at the very least, but 

1098
00:53:19,500 --> 00:53:22,600
it has to be motive and that was
the hardest part for the jury at

1099
00:53:22,600 --> 00:53:25,800
I think to wrestle with whether 
the easiest for them to wrestle 

1100
00:53:25,800 --> 00:53:29,000
with. 
Well, and I hope that they 

1101
00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:30,900
looked at it and saw the same 
thing that I saw, which was 

1102
00:53:30,900 --> 00:53:33,500
restraint, which is to say that 
you went in light of you, 

1103
00:53:33,600 --> 00:53:36,000
Evidence in light of what was 
said in and that moment and the 

1104
00:53:36,000 --> 00:53:39,600
fact that you're a human being 
and a father, it would be really

1105
00:53:39,600 --> 00:53:42,700
hard to fault those sort of 
actions and it would have been 

1106
00:53:42,700 --> 00:53:45,500
hard to fault more action than 
what you went along with. 

1107
00:53:46,700 --> 00:53:49,900
So, I, I think I gave you an 
interview right afterwards 

1108
00:53:49,900 --> 00:53:51,000
because I was being asked about 
it. 

1109
00:53:51,000 --> 00:53:52,700
Obviously the FBI being involved
in your case. 

1110
00:53:52,700 --> 00:53:54,900
And I went publicly, you know, 
I'm speaking to people like said

1111
00:53:54,900 --> 00:53:56,200
work and he said, what do you 
think? 

1112
00:53:56,500 --> 00:53:58,200
And I said, I'm not sure if the 
guy would have been breathing 

1113
00:53:59,200 --> 00:54:02,900
and if you because I'm, I know 
my capacity for violence. 

1114
00:54:02,900 --> 00:54:05,300
I spent a lot of time Writing on
it, you know and you know what? 

1115
00:54:05,300 --> 00:54:06,900
Your capability for physicality 
as well. 

1116
00:54:06,900 --> 00:54:09,500
And I'm glad that you were 
restrained, but like I said, I 

1117
00:54:09,500 --> 00:54:11,200
could tell you were a good size 
guy, just by looking at the 

1118
00:54:11,207 --> 00:54:13,200
pictures. 
And I thought, man, what up? 

1119
00:54:13,400 --> 00:54:15,500
What an interesting choice for 
someone to make to try to 

1120
00:54:15,500 --> 00:54:18,100
provoke, someone that is so 
much, you know, so much more of 

1121
00:54:18,100 --> 00:54:21,900
a physical danger to them, but 
it is a strange part of our 

1122
00:54:21,900 --> 00:54:24,300
culture right now. 
And we talked about it earlier 

1123
00:54:24,300 --> 00:54:27,900
about men growing up with some 
of the feminization and an 

1124
00:54:27,900 --> 00:54:32,000
inability to grasp like what the
core job of men in this world is

1125
00:54:32,200 --> 00:54:34,300
it's always been known. 
I mean, Men have always been the

1126
00:54:34,300 --> 00:54:36,100
ones who have been outside of 
the village. 

1127
00:54:36,100 --> 00:54:38,100
Like, I always told people ask 
me why I enlisted. 

1128
00:54:38,100 --> 00:54:40,400
I said well, because I did this 
reflection in my heart and I 

1129
00:54:40,400 --> 00:54:43,500
thought if it was 10,000 years 
ago, I would have been Landing. 

1130
00:54:43,500 --> 00:54:45,800
You know, covered in buffalo 
turds, waiting on the buffalo 

1131
00:54:45,800 --> 00:54:48,100
with like my two buddies and a 
spear like that would have been 

1132
00:54:48,100 --> 00:54:50,400
my job, right? 
Like that's what men did, they 

1133
00:54:50,400 --> 00:54:52,800
hunted? 
They provided that he protected.

1134
00:54:52,800 --> 00:54:56,900
And for some reason, this we're 
in a world. 

1135
00:54:56,900 --> 00:54:59,600
That's so divorced from physical
consequences right now. 

1136
00:54:59,800 --> 00:55:02,200
And I wonder if that's why 
people like like mr. 

1137
00:55:02,200 --> 00:55:03,500
Love decided that, that was the 
thing. 

1138
00:55:03,600 --> 00:55:07,000
Get engage in that was even even
remotely appropriate. 

1139
00:55:09,000 --> 00:55:10,700
Have you tried to do? 
Yeah, good. 

1140
00:55:11,200 --> 00:55:13,800
Have you put yourself in his 
soft spot and try to figure out 

1141
00:55:13,800 --> 00:55:16,200
what, you know, what goes on in 
that mind with the years that 

1142
00:55:16,200 --> 00:55:20,300
you have been interacting? 
Yeah, you know, again I've seen 

1143
00:55:20,300 --> 00:55:23,300
him for 20 years, I've talked to
him for 20 years, he's been 

1144
00:55:23,300 --> 00:55:27,800
vulgar, he's been even worse, 
but he just he would not let it 

1145
00:55:27,800 --> 00:55:29,700
go. 
He said on the stand that he's 

1146
00:55:29,700 --> 00:55:32,200
never been in any physical 
altercation in his life. 

1147
00:55:33,600 --> 00:55:35,900
Really, it's probably only the 
second or third time I ever had 

1148
00:55:35,900 --> 00:55:40,800
a physical altercation with 
somebody who wasn't my brother 

1149
00:55:41,900 --> 00:55:44,800
nonetheless. 
He, you know, he was very 

1150
00:55:44,800 --> 00:55:49,800
surprised by it and, you know, I
guess he I guess he didn't think

1151
00:55:49,800 --> 00:55:54,300
it would come, it would happen. 
Yeah, it's bizarre. 

1152
00:55:54,300 --> 00:55:57,400
I do feel like there's something
about just being if you make it 

1153
00:55:57,400 --> 00:56:00,600
to the age of 25, as a male and 
you haven't been punched in the 

1154
00:56:00,600 --> 00:56:02,000
nose once, even if it's by 
brother. 

1155
00:56:02,000 --> 00:56:04,300
And, you know, I've had a live 
split open by a brother, you 

1156
00:56:04,300 --> 00:56:06,600
know, I got four of them. 
So it's one of those very 

1157
00:56:06,600 --> 00:56:08,000
natural things. 
If you haven't had the 

1158
00:56:08,000 --> 00:56:10,600
consequences of your action, 
sort of meted out upon you in a 

1159
00:56:11,000 --> 00:56:13,100
way that you could walk away. 
And remember, maybe a scar 

1160
00:56:13,100 --> 00:56:14,300
somewhere that doesn't bother 
you. 

1161
00:56:15,100 --> 00:56:18,300
It seems like we more and more 
have that, that disconnection in

1162
00:56:18,300 --> 00:56:21,900
our physical culture and it's 
led to just some really vile 

1163
00:56:21,900 --> 00:56:23,800
Behavior. 
Sure, you guys were subject to 

1164
00:56:23,808 --> 00:56:26,900
some online hate and and you 
know people from the other side 

1165
00:56:26,900 --> 00:56:30,200
that were you know despising you
just for doing the thing that I 

1166
00:56:30,207 --> 00:56:32,000
think every Dad should do. 
Yeah. 

1167
00:56:32,000 --> 00:56:35,100
There was some, there was some 
initial response there from the 

1168
00:56:35,100 --> 00:56:37,700
other side, if you will. 
And we even got an after the 

1169
00:56:37,700 --> 00:56:42,100
verdict to, we got, you know, 
some some requests for, for, you

1170
00:56:42,107 --> 00:56:45,100
know, try that, when I'm there 
kind of thing, you know, from a,

1171
00:56:45,100 --> 00:56:47,700
someone who's an escort. 
So, you know, we differ from 

1172
00:56:47,700 --> 00:56:51,000
this, ignore them and some are 
kind of funny, actually, sort of

1173
00:56:51,000 --> 00:56:53,500
things that were said you had 
Kind of chuckle. 

1174
00:56:53,500 --> 00:56:56,300
I could someone actually waste 
the time to send you some 

1175
00:56:56,300 --> 00:57:00,700
nonsense but you got to see some
humor in it or else you'll go 

1176
00:57:00,700 --> 00:57:03,700
crazy or despair or get really 
nervous. 

1177
00:57:04,300 --> 00:57:07,800
Is it all online written? 
Or are you guys catching phone 

1178
00:57:07,800 --> 00:57:10,200
calls or anything like that to? 
I mean do you have I'm you have 

1179
00:57:10,200 --> 00:57:12,400
a home you know line that's 
catching that where your kids 

1180
00:57:12,400 --> 00:57:14,600
are gonna have to hear a voice 
mail that's awful or yeah. 

1181
00:57:14,800 --> 00:57:17,800
You shielded you've been around 
the block brother you know the 

1182
00:57:17,800 --> 00:57:20,300
routine. 
Yeah we got I got the voicemail 

1183
00:57:20,300 --> 00:57:22,700
my personal phone, you know, 
with the crazy mess. 

1184
00:57:22,900 --> 00:57:25,900
Is we don't have an answering 
machine in the home, so, 

1185
00:57:25,900 --> 00:57:28,900
thankfully, it's just cell 
phones, which works, but yeah, 

1186
00:57:28,900 --> 00:57:32,400
the text message voicemail and 
email have been the main source 

1187
00:57:32,400 --> 00:57:35,300
of connection. 
Does it surprise you? 

1188
00:57:35,300 --> 00:57:39,000
How vile people can be? 
Or is it just just one more 

1189
00:57:39,000 --> 00:57:41,200
facet in this war that, you 
know, that you're involved in? 

1190
00:57:41,800 --> 00:57:44,800
What we, you know, we're in the 
city in Philadelphia 13th? 

1191
00:57:44,800 --> 00:57:46,900
And Locus is like I said, the 
gayborhood. 

1192
00:57:47,500 --> 00:57:50,500
I seen the worst of behavior. 
I've been spit upon. 

1193
00:57:50,500 --> 00:57:52,400
I've been pushed. 
I've been pushed by security 

1194
00:57:52,400 --> 00:57:55,100
guards. 
There, you know, I've had an 

1195
00:57:55,100 --> 00:57:57,800
awful, grotesque things said to 
me when I've been there by 

1196
00:57:57,800 --> 00:58:00,800
myself. 
So, yeah, I seen the worst in 

1197
00:58:00,800 --> 00:58:03,800
humanity, so I know it doesn't 
surprise me. 

1198
00:58:03,800 --> 00:58:07,700
I wish it did. 
No, I think that's that's the 

1199
00:58:07,700 --> 00:58:10,000
part about being in this 
spiritual war that the 

1200
00:58:10,000 --> 00:58:11,800
physicality of it. 
Shut probably doesn't surprise 

1201
00:58:11,800 --> 00:58:15,600
anybody anymore but it is, I 
don't know, there's depths of 

1202
00:58:15,600 --> 00:58:18,300
humanity that I think every once
in a while, they will come find 

1203
00:58:18,300 --> 00:58:19,800
something new. 
Let's talk about something a 

1204
00:58:19,800 --> 00:58:22,500
little bit more positive. 
I know Phil's gonna probably not

1205
00:58:22,500 --> 00:58:24,400
off to sleep over there because 
he's on the East Coast. 

1206
00:58:24,400 --> 00:58:28,700
He's on the wrong side of the 
country, the King's Men. 

1207
00:58:28,800 --> 00:58:30,600
Where do you guys put on your 
seminars? 

1208
00:58:30,900 --> 00:58:33,600
It says you've traveled all over
the world that give me kind of a

1209
00:58:34,100 --> 00:58:37,400
unique kind of a tour guide. 
Are you been and what you've 

1210
00:58:37,400 --> 00:58:41,500
seen and and maybe where things 
are different or where your 

1211
00:58:41,500 --> 00:58:43,700
message is most well-received? 
Sure. 

1212
00:58:44,000 --> 00:58:46,500
So yeah, I have the heart of 
what we do is small men's groups

1213
00:58:46,500 --> 00:58:48,800
and we started them in the 
Northeast part of the country. 

1214
00:58:48,800 --> 00:58:52,300
And then of course they grew. 
As we wrote a handbook to help 

1215
00:58:52,300 --> 00:58:56,000
man and we have a footprint kind
of the United States, you know, 

1216
00:58:56,000 --> 00:58:59,600
all around the country, and 
that's great. 

1217
00:58:59,600 --> 00:59:04,100
And then we have guys in Poland 
Switzerland you know, involved 

1218
00:59:04,100 --> 00:59:07,000
doing small men's groups and 
then we have guys in In military

1219
00:59:07,000 --> 00:59:10,200
bases in Korea and you have one 
in Kabul Afghanistan. 

1220
00:59:10,900 --> 00:59:14,400
So you know we've had that as 
our heartbeat of what we do and 

1221
00:59:14,400 --> 00:59:17,800
then we funnel a lot of guys 
into our small men's groups 

1222
00:59:17,800 --> 00:59:20,600
through a retreat offering or 
Retreat programs, outdoor 

1223
00:59:20,600 --> 00:59:24,100
experiential Retreats and then 
even healing Retreats healing 

1224
00:59:24,100 --> 00:59:27,900
Retreats for men, who kind of 
really have these deep wounds 

1225
00:59:27,900 --> 00:59:32,700
from their youth, which could be
bullying or father Williams, or 

1226
00:59:32,700 --> 00:59:34,700
maybe they've had an abortion or
something. 

1227
00:59:35,000 --> 00:59:39,500
We're just struggling. 10. 
So we did that as another funnel

1228
00:59:39,500 --> 00:59:43,100
to what we do and then and then 
we do that for vets as well 

1229
00:59:43,100 --> 00:59:47,500
First Responders because they 
have a unique woman there. 

1230
00:59:47,500 --> 00:59:50,900
And then finally, it's a call to
action piece of what we do 

1231
00:59:50,900 --> 00:59:53,500
inviting men to engage in 
notable battles. 

1232
00:59:54,600 --> 00:59:56,900
Like going to the abortion, 
while defending, traditional 

1233
00:59:56,900 --> 01:00:00,700
marriage and fighting evil 
pornography, what does yeah. 

1234
01:00:00,700 --> 01:00:02,100
Tell me a little more about the 
noble battles. 

1235
01:00:02,100 --> 01:00:04,400
I think that's kind of something
that people who listen to me, 

1236
01:00:04,400 --> 01:00:08,600
probably get a probably, A good 
sense of what that, you know, or

1237
01:00:08,600 --> 01:00:10,300
would be that would appeal to 
them. 

1238
01:00:10,600 --> 01:00:14,000
But you talk about very 
specifically pornography 

1239
01:00:14,500 --> 01:00:15,700
abortion. 
What was the other one 

1240
01:00:16,100 --> 01:00:20,100
homosexuality in our culture? 
Yeah, okay, so traditional, so 

1241
01:00:20,100 --> 01:00:21,500
how do you how do you approach 
something like that? 

1242
01:00:21,500 --> 01:00:24,200
Because obviously the political 
culture right now. 

1243
01:00:24,900 --> 01:00:27,600
Screams against that that you 
should leave engage. 

1244
01:00:27,600 --> 01:00:30,100
It's a faux pas. 
It puts you out of the polite 

1245
01:00:30,100 --> 01:00:32,700
conversation. 
I think in many on many tables. 

1246
01:00:33,900 --> 01:00:35,700
Definitely, on the East Coast, 
it's definitely on the West 

1247
01:00:35,700 --> 01:00:37,500
Coast. 
You're probably safer in the 

1248
01:00:37,500 --> 01:00:40,900
midwest but the people are are 
scared to engage in that. 

1249
01:00:40,900 --> 01:00:43,900
So what kind of things do you 
teach people that they can where

1250
01:00:43,900 --> 01:00:47,300
they enter that? 
Yeah, I think being an activist,

1251
01:00:47,500 --> 01:00:50,900
you know, I know a little bit 
about first amendment rights and

1252
01:00:50,900 --> 01:00:54,200
so fighting the evil pornography
was was what we initially did as

1253
01:00:54,200 --> 01:00:56,900
an apostolate of ministry and we
would just do it. 

1254
01:00:56,900 --> 01:00:59,400
We do it pro life visuals and 
just go and pray in front of 

1255
01:00:59,408 --> 01:01:02,400
sexually oriented businesses. 
And so, we would bring men with 

1256
01:01:02,400 --> 01:01:05,600
us and we've been a part of the 
closing of 23 of them because 

1257
01:01:06,100 --> 01:01:09,300
You know, we just expose the 
light or the evil to the light 

1258
01:01:09,300 --> 01:01:13,400
rather and expose all of the 
lies so that the evil and does 

1259
01:01:13,400 --> 01:01:17,900
and setting up business there. 
So that's been a great success 

1260
01:01:17,900 --> 01:01:21,500
story and it's out of men's 
comfort zone for sure. 

1261
01:01:22,200 --> 01:01:25,400
But we would encourage them to 
join us and then you know, see 

1262
01:01:25,400 --> 01:01:28,000
the joy in that for themselves 
and the gift for them. 

1263
01:01:28,000 --> 01:01:32,200
And even being on the offensive 
with an issue, that is so much 

1264
01:01:32,200 --> 01:01:35,200
commonplace for men today, 
dealing with lust and sins of 

1265
01:01:35,200 --> 01:01:38,300
the flesh. 
It was very, it was, it was 

1266
01:01:38,300 --> 01:01:40,100
something that men were 
intrigued by. 

1267
01:01:40,100 --> 01:01:42,700
Although it definitely did label
us for a number of years as the 

1268
01:01:42,700 --> 01:01:47,200
porn Fighters, we got away from 
it, it was what it was, you 

1269
01:01:47,200 --> 01:01:50,400
know, someone had to do it. 
So, you know, we were sued in 

1270
01:01:50,400 --> 01:01:52,200
federal court. 
So, you know, we dealt with 

1271
01:01:52,200 --> 01:01:55,800
federal courts before we won. 
Of course, we always win. 

1272
01:01:55,800 --> 01:01:57,800
It's just, we got to spend money
to win. 

1273
01:01:57,800 --> 01:02:00,500
Sometimes our we get the 
alliance defending Freedom or 

1274
01:02:00,508 --> 01:02:04,000
Thomas More society and of 
course traditional traditional 

1275
01:02:04,000 --> 01:02:06,500
marriage has been something. 
We've always stood for For 

1276
01:02:06,500 --> 01:02:09,200
helping men who struggle with 
same-sex attraction. 

1277
01:02:09,200 --> 01:02:12,800
But also not being afraid to 
call out. 

1278
01:02:12,800 --> 01:02:16,700
You know what? 
God, created from man and woman 

1279
01:02:16,700 --> 01:02:18,700
and boy that'll make a lot of 
enemies. 

1280
01:02:18,700 --> 01:02:20,400
That'll get you. 
That'll get you on someone's 

1281
01:02:20,400 --> 01:02:24,200
hate list real quick but you 
know, President Obama lit up the

1282
01:02:24,200 --> 01:02:27,100
White House and rainbow colors. 
We went down there and we did a 

1283
01:02:27,100 --> 01:02:30,400
whole Outreach right in front of
the White House lawn and you 

1284
01:02:30,400 --> 01:02:32,900
know, we were just right in 
front they're saying after 

1285
01:02:32,900 --> 01:02:38,600
oberkfell, I just know this 
Isn't this is not what God 

1286
01:02:38,600 --> 01:02:40,900
created. 
This is not good for society, 

1287
01:02:40,900 --> 01:02:44,200
it's not good for a child. 
So we've been very vocal about 

1288
01:02:44,200 --> 01:02:46,000
those things. 
And, of course, abortions been 

1289
01:02:46,000 --> 01:02:47,600
always at the heart of all of 
it, right? 

1290
01:02:47,600 --> 01:02:50,500
Because right, if you get that 
wrong, no wonder. 

1291
01:02:50,500 --> 01:02:53,700
Everything else is way it is. 
So so we've always been engaged 

1292
01:02:53,700 --> 01:02:56,100
in that battle. 
We saw the porn fight is kind of

1293
01:02:56,107 --> 01:02:59,600
you know, foundational to the 
abortion problem because it was 

1294
01:02:59,600 --> 01:03:03,200
the hyper sexualized culture. 
And so we were trying to go to 

1295
01:03:03,200 --> 01:03:06,900
the root of the problem yet we 
were still Oh, they're still 

1296
01:03:06,900 --> 01:03:09,100
going 11th hour to the clinics 
and praying. 

1297
01:03:09,500 --> 01:03:13,600
And and then just seeing the 
culture changing, the, you know,

1298
01:03:13,600 --> 01:03:16,600
the the drag queen libraries and
the culture change. 

1299
01:03:16,600 --> 01:03:19,300
And throughout the last 20 
years, my gosh that we weren't 

1300
01:03:19,300 --> 01:03:23,500
talking about Jenna transgender 
issues when I began in 04 L3. 

1301
01:03:24,000 --> 01:03:26,900
And but now it's just now part 
of the rhetoric, you know, we 

1302
01:03:26,900 --> 01:03:29,300
have to be able to defend that 
too. 

1303
01:03:29,300 --> 01:03:31,800
So you know what, we're not 
afraid to talk about these 

1304
01:03:31,800 --> 01:03:33,500
things. 
These things are tarred to talk 

1305
01:03:33,500 --> 01:03:35,500
about. 
Many reasons, know what to say. 

1306
01:03:36,700 --> 01:03:39,900
You know, there'll be no 
biblically how to defend it. 

1307
01:03:40,600 --> 01:03:45,100
So we just try to give them 
permission to kind of just stand

1308
01:03:45,100 --> 01:03:47,500
up against this stuff and we try
to link him to what we're doing.

1309
01:03:47,500 --> 01:03:50,800
So they don't feel alone in it. 
Uh-huh, there. 

1310
01:03:50,800 --> 01:03:52,900
I think there's probably two 
takes on what we're looking at, 

1311
01:03:52,900 --> 01:03:55,900
in the, in the culture War, as 
it stands right now and one of 

1312
01:03:55,908 --> 01:04:01,000
those is that we're losing and 
that there is an awful lot of 

1313
01:04:01,000 --> 01:04:03,600
evil and it's more of it. 
But the other possibility is 

1314
01:04:03,600 --> 01:04:05,800
that these are last gasp of a 
failing. 

1315
01:04:06,600 --> 01:04:10,200
Attempt to really capture 
people's hearts and they look, 

1316
01:04:10,200 --> 01:04:11,700
you know, ridiculous on their 
face. 

1317
01:04:11,700 --> 01:04:14,500
The drag queen story, our thing 
you say it didn't exist. 

1318
01:04:14,500 --> 01:04:17,300
When I was, when I was in my 
Twenties, that was not a thing 

1319
01:04:17,300 --> 01:04:19,700
that I ever heard of. 
And suddenly, they want to push 

1320
01:04:19,700 --> 01:04:22,900
this agenda, like it's a real, 
like it's a real necessary part 

1321
01:04:22,900 --> 01:04:25,600
of our culture and it seems 
absurd. 

1322
01:04:25,600 --> 01:04:28,700
And do you feel like that we're 
losing ground, or that? 

1323
01:04:28,700 --> 01:04:30,200
This is, the last Gap. 
Is it? 

1324
01:04:30,200 --> 01:04:31,100
Where is it somewhere in between
it? 

1325
01:04:31,100 --> 01:04:33,800
And we're just hoping hoping on 
one of the other? 

1326
01:04:34,200 --> 01:04:37,000
Yeah, you know, I've been saying
a lot with Was some of the talks

1327
01:04:37,000 --> 01:04:39,800
have been given since the, the 
trial ended. 

1328
01:04:40,100 --> 01:04:42,500
Now that st. 
Peter says, that the devil 

1329
01:04:42,500 --> 01:04:45,200
prowls around, like a roaring 
lion, hope looking for someone 

1330
01:04:45,200 --> 01:04:48,100
to devour, right? 
And so when we think of an old 

1331
01:04:48,100 --> 01:04:52,400
African proverb which says a 
roaring lion catches no, pray 

1332
01:04:53,600 --> 01:04:58,600
nor no gain, we really have to 
see the devil as as a wounded 

1333
01:04:58,600 --> 01:05:00,700
animal and that's what a roaring
lion is. 

1334
01:05:00,700 --> 01:05:03,500
It's a wounded animal when lions
are healthy. 

1335
01:05:03,500 --> 01:05:07,900
They're quiet. 
They don't Roar The Lioness is 

1336
01:05:07,900 --> 01:05:12,300
they hunt in stealth mode and so
you know, healthy line is not 

1337
01:05:12,300 --> 01:05:14,700
going to do that if it wants to 
catch its prey. 

1338
01:05:15,100 --> 01:05:18,800
So we know the devil's wounded, 
we know that he Roars because 

1339
01:05:18,800 --> 01:05:22,700
it's all he can do and all the 
animals flee when they hear the 

1340
01:05:22,700 --> 01:05:25,100
roaring lion, because he's 
wounded, and they'll just get 

1341
01:05:25,100 --> 01:05:27,600
out of his way and won't. 
But the only thing that the 

1342
01:05:27,600 --> 01:05:32,100
devil catches and the lion will 
catch is the dead person, the 

1343
01:05:32,100 --> 01:05:35,300
spiritually dead. 
And so that's what the devil 

1344
01:05:35,300 --> 01:05:37,200
will grant. 
Either up at the people who 

1345
01:05:37,200 --> 01:05:39,500
weren't praying, the people who 
aren't listening to God, the 

1346
01:05:39,500 --> 01:05:42,900
people who aren't going to 
church, the people who are 

1347
01:05:42,900 --> 01:05:46,900
buying into the LIE of the 
culture, the whoa culture, 

1348
01:05:47,600 --> 01:05:50,400
that's who the devil is going to
is going to devour. 

1349
01:05:50,600 --> 01:05:53,500
So I think faithful people need 
to know that and they need to 

1350
01:05:53,500 --> 01:05:55,800
know that you have nothing to 
fear. 

1351
01:05:55,900 --> 01:05:58,300
You know, we've been loud. 
We lost a lot of pro-lifers and 

1352
01:05:58,300 --> 01:06:01,300
Philadelphia coming coming out 
to the clinics. 

1353
01:06:01,300 --> 01:06:04,100
After I got arrested, it's 
exactly what they wanted to have

1354
01:06:04,100 --> 01:06:05,700
happen. 
They were scared. 

1355
01:06:06,700 --> 01:06:08,800
Imagine that happen around the 
rest of the country to. 

1356
01:06:09,000 --> 01:06:11,100
But now we're trying to 
encourage them. 

1357
01:06:11,100 --> 01:06:14,600
Don't be afraid like you got the
case law, good keep going. 

1358
01:06:14,800 --> 01:06:18,700
But don't don't let what 
happened to me prevent you from 

1359
01:06:18,700 --> 01:06:20,700
fulfilling the will of God in 
your life. 

1360
01:06:21,000 --> 01:06:25,400
So I think that's where men 
struggle and they ask need to 

1361
01:06:25,400 --> 01:06:28,600
step out and have that courage. 
Yeah. 

1362
01:06:28,600 --> 01:06:31,500
And you know, courage, because 
courage and one step, you know, 

1363
01:06:31,500 --> 01:06:34,400
follows another, did you have 
any contact with the others that

1364
01:06:34,400 --> 01:06:35,500
were there? 
Were other people that were 

1365
01:06:35,500 --> 01:06:38,800
arrested, you were the first of 
several during that sort of wave

1366
01:06:38,800 --> 01:06:44,000
that went on of the doj decided 
to push a sort of a ridiculous 

1367
01:06:44,000 --> 01:06:47,100
position. 
But did you have any contact 

1368
01:06:47,100 --> 01:06:48,200
with any of them? 
Did you order? 

1369
01:06:48,400 --> 01:06:50,900
Are they going to be relying on 
your case law now that you've 

1370
01:06:50,900 --> 01:06:53,100
that it's been established? 
You think good question, you 

1371
01:06:53,107 --> 01:06:57,000
know, father Fidelis he got 
convicted up in New York and 

1372
01:06:57,300 --> 01:06:59,700
he's trying Sentencing is 
pending. 

1373
01:06:59,700 --> 01:07:02,200
I have not had contact. 
I know, people who know him. 

1374
01:07:02,900 --> 01:07:04,800
Paul Von. 
I didn't realize that. 

1375
01:07:04,800 --> 01:07:06,200
Well, who is this again? 
Yeah. 

1376
01:07:06,200 --> 01:07:09,100
Father Fidelis. 
She's he was arrested up in New 

1377
01:07:09,100 --> 01:07:11,700
York. 
He says, CFR father Benedict, 

1378
01:07:11,700 --> 01:07:15,600
groeschel zorder, okay? 
Very Orthodox. 

1379
01:07:15,600 --> 01:07:17,600
There's gotta be. 
Yeah, who's gonna be pulling 

1380
01:07:17,600 --> 01:07:20,400
that up right now? 
Yeah, and then, so, he's pending

1381
01:07:20,400 --> 01:07:22,500
sentencing. 
Yeah, he was convicted. 

1382
01:07:23,000 --> 01:07:24,700
He do, he did a little something
different than I did. 

1383
01:07:24,700 --> 01:07:28,000
He locked the gates, you know, 
he put, He bar, lock the gate. 

1384
01:07:28,100 --> 01:07:29,600
Eh it out and then use. 
Yeah. 

1385
01:07:29,600 --> 01:07:33,100
Okay I remember I remember him 
so that may actually that may 

1386
01:07:33,100 --> 01:07:36,400
actually fit the actual elements
in like that I can shoot. 

1387
01:07:37,200 --> 01:07:38,700
Yeah that actually a little 
closer. 

1388
01:07:39,500 --> 01:07:41,900
Yeah. 
Paul Von you know he had his he 

1389
01:07:41,900 --> 01:07:45,000
has 10 kids or whatever but is 
for agents came out to his 

1390
01:07:45,000 --> 01:07:46,600
house. 
I have not spoken to him. 

1391
01:07:47,400 --> 01:07:51,800
Joan Andrews Bell. 
I her son was at my trial and I 

1392
01:07:51,800 --> 01:07:54,700
spoke to her directly through 
that but I really haven't had 

1393
01:07:54,700 --> 01:07:56,800
much contact. 
We probably should have some 

1394
01:07:56,800 --> 01:08:01,300
sort of It's a gathering. 
I gather of the of these folks 

1395
01:08:01,300 --> 01:08:04,300
at some point. 
Yeah, an alumni meeting of this 

1396
01:08:04,300 --> 01:08:07,100
sort of a suspicious suspicious 
nature. 

1397
01:08:07,900 --> 01:08:09,800
Have you any knowledge about the
meeting? 

1398
01:08:10,000 --> 01:08:10,800
That's it. 
Yes. 

1399
01:08:10,800 --> 01:08:14,500
PNG someone referred to me as P 
it they said persona extremely 

1400
01:08:14,500 --> 01:08:16,899
non grata the other day about 
being in the FBI which is 

1401
01:08:16,899 --> 01:08:18,300
always. 
I thought that was kind of a 

1402
01:08:18,308 --> 01:08:20,800
nice thing. 
I was kind of grateful for that 

1403
01:08:20,800 --> 01:08:22,100
title. 
There's a. 

1404
01:08:22,600 --> 01:08:24,800
So there was a memo that that 
one of my whistleblowers brought

1405
01:08:24,800 --> 01:08:26,200
forward, I don't know if you're 
familiar with it but it was 

1406
01:08:26,207 --> 01:08:28,500
talking about some of the other 
traditional Catholics the 

1407
01:08:28,500 --> 01:08:31,700
so-called radical traditional 
Catholics, I'm sure you will 

1408
01:08:31,700 --> 01:08:35,000
find yourself on an splc hate 
list at some point because 

1409
01:08:35,000 --> 01:08:37,700
that's what they do. 
Have you been tracking that at 

1410
01:08:37,700 --> 01:08:39,899
all? 
If you had a, if you had any 

1411
01:08:39,899 --> 01:08:43,800
bandwidth to digest that so, so 
it's a great question is where 

1412
01:08:43,800 --> 01:08:46,399
we're going next. 
So, so I have an interview with 

1413
01:08:46,399 --> 01:08:50,399
the Judiciary Committee on 
February 22nd to begin process, 

1414
01:08:50,399 --> 01:08:53,600
to have that testified before 
Congress. 

1415
01:08:54,200 --> 01:08:58,000
And that subcommittee, that was 
in charged of over. 

1416
01:08:58,500 --> 01:09:00,800
The federal government's 
overreach. 

1417
01:09:01,100 --> 01:09:03,800
So that's going to be happening.
We reached out to the former FBI

1418
01:09:03,800 --> 01:09:07,000
head, in the eastern district, 
where I am, who is a devout 

1419
01:09:07,000 --> 01:09:09,100
Catholic, who retired two years 
ago. 

1420
01:09:10,000 --> 01:09:12,000
And he's willing to cooperate 
and help us. 

1421
01:09:12,399 --> 01:09:17,899
I just saw Bill bar, and event 
in Orlando, and he's willing to 

1422
01:09:17,899 --> 01:09:22,500
help us former Attorney General,
under Donald Trump at a doj, 

1423
01:09:22,500 --> 01:09:26,700
right? 
Also, he's willing to help us so

1424
01:09:26,700 --> 01:09:30,899
we're moving in this direction. 
Section 2 to begin this process.

1425
01:09:32,200 --> 01:09:35,100
That's good. 
It's funny that it has got into 

1426
01:09:35,100 --> 01:09:39,399
the, it's at least God, I think 
they blew it like in so many 

1427
01:09:39,399 --> 01:09:41,100
ways. 
They tipped a hand. 

1428
01:09:41,300 --> 01:09:43,100
What they don't realize is that 
there are an awful lot of 

1429
01:09:43,108 --> 01:09:44,700
Catholics. 
There's also a lot of just 

1430
01:09:45,200 --> 01:09:47,700
Evangelical Christians and 
others who hold the same views 

1431
01:09:47,700 --> 01:09:49,899
as all Catholics to about 
abortion and about the 

1432
01:09:49,899 --> 01:09:52,800
homosexuality agenda that we're 
talking about here and these are

1433
01:09:52,800 --> 01:09:56,300
not foreign to to mainstream 
people in this country we've 

1434
01:09:56,300 --> 01:09:58,500
just been kind of stifled in a 
lot of ways and people kind of 

1435
01:09:58,508 --> 01:10:01,400
keep their mouths shut I think 
that's the legacy of the 90s for

1436
01:10:01,400 --> 01:10:04,000
some reason. 
Like everybody just tried to let

1437
01:10:04,000 --> 01:10:06,600
everybody be and there was that 
participation trophy kind of 

1438
01:10:06,600 --> 01:10:11,200
culture but that led to a lot of
Tolerance that maybe got out of 

1439
01:10:11,208 --> 01:10:14,000
hand in a way that we're seeing,
you know, the backlash of the 

1440
01:10:14,000 --> 01:10:16,200
right now which is that you've 
got to weaponize, doj will only 

1441
01:10:16,200 --> 01:10:20,000
go after guys like you and that 
are willing to push the envelope

1442
01:10:20,000 --> 01:10:22,400
about issues that the federal 
government, really ought not to 

1443
01:10:22,407 --> 01:10:25,700
have any saying there was a 
prosecutor I stalked you the 

1444
01:10:25,700 --> 01:10:27,100
other day. 
He said, the government doesn't 

1445
01:10:27,100 --> 01:10:30,000
have any stake in the outcome of
law enforcement. 

1446
01:10:30,000 --> 01:10:31,700
They should only be interested 
in the process. 

1447
01:10:32,200 --> 01:10:34,500
But I don't think it probably 
felt like that for you and it 

1448
01:10:34,500 --> 01:10:37,100
certainly doesn't feel like that
looking from being on the 

1449
01:10:37,100 --> 01:10:39,700
outside now and looking inside 
again, and seeing what's going 

1450
01:10:39,700 --> 01:10:41,500
on there. 
They seem to really care what 

1451
01:10:41,500 --> 01:10:44,700
the outcome is. 
Sure, it seems that way. 

1452
01:10:44,700 --> 01:10:49,500
And yeah, now we're definitely 
at the point of the spear, 

1453
01:10:49,600 --> 01:10:52,200
right? 
So we see it, we feel it. 

1454
01:10:52,200 --> 01:10:55,000
And, you know, we're we know, 
it's going to get worse. 

1455
01:10:55,000 --> 01:10:58,700
In fact, I feel like there's 
even more of a Target on my back

1456
01:10:58,900 --> 01:11:01,700
as a result of it. 
So, you know, by the grace of 

1457
01:11:01,900 --> 01:11:03,600
Go. 
I and we just were trusting in 

1458
01:11:03,600 --> 01:11:08,100
his protection and Providence 
and and goodness and you know, 

1459
01:11:08,100 --> 01:11:09,700
but we're trying to talk to the 
right people. 

1460
01:11:09,700 --> 01:11:12,500
God seems to be leading us all 
the right people. 

1461
01:11:12,500 --> 01:11:15,600
I think our conversation tonight
is a help in that process to. 

1462
01:11:15,600 --> 01:11:19,800
We met a couple state troopers 
who, who said that they saw the 

1463
01:11:19,800 --> 01:11:23,200
invitation that day to go out 
and support the FBI. 

1464
01:11:23,500 --> 01:11:26,400
And they rejected it because 
they said I'm not doing this. 

1465
01:11:26,800 --> 01:11:29,200
So we know and we tell our 
children like look you know 

1466
01:11:29,200 --> 01:11:31,300
there's two state troopers had a
choice that day. 

1467
01:11:31,900 --> 01:11:35,800
As did every FBI agent. 
So you know, obviously would 

1468
01:11:35,800 --> 01:11:38,200
have to deal with the 
consequences of that choice, but

1469
01:11:38,500 --> 01:11:41,000
an immoral order is still in 
moral water. 

1470
01:11:41,000 --> 01:11:44,200
And there's moral injury there 
when you when you follow through

1471
01:11:44,200 --> 01:11:47,400
on a moral order. 
So whether you're in the front 

1472
01:11:47,400 --> 01:11:51,400
lines in the military, or first 
responder or doj representative,

1473
01:11:52,100 --> 01:11:54,400
there's some tremendous amount 
of injury that I think took 

1474
01:11:54,400 --> 01:11:57,700
place in the hearts of good 
people that day, as a result of 

1475
01:11:57,700 --> 01:12:00,900
watching my children screaming, 
sure sheer Terror. 

1476
01:12:01,500 --> 01:12:05,000
So And they're going to have to 
carry that around and answer for

1477
01:12:05,000 --> 01:12:06,900
that on their own time, and 
hopefully, they seek the 

1478
01:12:06,900 --> 01:12:08,600
Forgiveness. 
They need to that they can get 

1479
01:12:08,600 --> 01:12:11,400
over it, too. 
I'm assuming that you've already

1480
01:12:11,400 --> 01:12:13,400
made peace with what those 
people are. 

1481
01:12:13,400 --> 01:12:16,200
You don't hold, you hold 
animosity, or Grudge. 

1482
01:12:16,200 --> 01:12:18,400
Or how do you, how do you move 
forward with your thoughts about

1483
01:12:18,400 --> 01:12:19,900
these guys? 
It's tough for Phil and I'll 

1484
01:12:19,900 --> 01:12:22,100
just tell you right now, it's 
very difficult for Phil and I to

1485
01:12:22,500 --> 01:12:24,700
let our colleagues off the hook.
That way, sure. 

1486
01:12:25,000 --> 01:12:28,000
Look someone asked me that 
question is to who, you know, 

1487
01:12:28,000 --> 01:12:29,400
you harboring. 
Anything is so look. 

1488
01:12:29,400 --> 01:12:31,700
I want to go to heaven. 
I don't Harbor any thing. 

1489
01:12:31,800 --> 01:12:33,900
Like, if I hold it, if I'm 
holding anything against 

1490
01:12:33,900 --> 01:12:37,500
somebody, I ain't getting into 
heaven, you know, because God's 

1491
01:12:37,500 --> 01:12:39,400
you can't bring it, you can't 
bring it to the Lord. 

1492
01:12:39,700 --> 01:12:43,800
So I and I forgive them all. 
I know they're conflicted. 

1493
01:12:44,000 --> 01:12:47,900
I know that they're struggling 
to make a decision, they have 

1494
01:12:48,200 --> 01:12:50,800
the on the one end they have, 
you know, this is my job. 

1495
01:12:50,800 --> 01:12:52,900
This is my career is how I 
support my family. 

1496
01:12:53,200 --> 01:12:56,800
And now, that's at a Crossroads 
with the life of another human 

1497
01:12:56,800 --> 01:13:01,300
being, you know, that I get it, 
I get it, I would not want to be

1498
01:13:01,300 --> 01:13:04,300
in their shoes. 
However, if you put me in that 

1499
01:13:04,300 --> 01:13:10,500
position, if I was given an 
immoral order, we would ask my 

1500
01:13:10,500 --> 01:13:12,900
son, this question. 
And he said, would you expect 

1501
01:13:12,900 --> 01:13:15,300
your dad not to follow it? 
And he said absolutely. 

1502
01:13:15,300 --> 01:13:19,700
So, it comes back to integrity 
and each man has to have and 

1503
01:13:19,700 --> 01:13:23,200
woman has to have 20 with plenty
of women there that day actually

1504
01:13:23,200 --> 01:13:25,800
Integrity. 
That says, no, this is, this is 

1505
01:13:25,800 --> 01:13:29,500
a bridge too far. 
I can, I cannot do this, that's 

1506
01:13:29,500 --> 01:13:31,200
it? 
No, I think that's the, that's 

1507
01:13:31,200 --> 01:13:32,700
the call to action. 
Action for all of our law 

1508
01:13:32,700 --> 01:13:35,700
enforcement for our military to 
like I said find that Line in 

1509
01:13:35,708 --> 01:13:38,500
the Sand. 
The word is people always ask me

1510
01:13:38,500 --> 01:13:42,200
you know what can I do to help? 
It's like, help yourself help 

1511
01:13:42,200 --> 01:13:44,400
yourself because otherwise 
you'll be ashamed. 

1512
01:13:44,600 --> 01:13:46,700
There's so many people that 
backpedal Beyond things and have

1513
01:13:46,700 --> 01:13:48,600
done things that they are 
ashamed of doing because they 

1514
01:13:48,600 --> 01:13:51,600
didn't prepare beforehand. 
There's a buddy of mine who 

1515
01:13:51,600 --> 01:13:54,700
lives up in Long Island and, you
know, he's a classic like Long 

1516
01:13:54,700 --> 01:13:56,800
Island, tough guy, but he became
a fitness, dude. 

1517
01:13:56,800 --> 01:13:58,800
And one of the things that he 
always tells me is prepare or 

1518
01:13:58,800 --> 01:14:01,300
repair, and it doesn't matter 
whether you're talking about 

1519
01:14:01,300 --> 01:14:05,800
your Our or your diet, or your 
health or your spiritual health,

1520
01:14:06,100 --> 01:14:08,400
all those things are huge. 
You really just have two 

1521
01:14:08,400 --> 01:14:11,300
options. 
You can either prepare or you're

1522
01:14:11,300 --> 01:14:14,400
going to be working backwards 
afterwards and trying to repair.

1523
01:14:15,100 --> 01:14:17,000
I'm very glad that you were 
prepared on that day. 

1524
01:14:17,000 --> 01:14:18,200
That you were that you were 
tested. 

1525
01:14:18,200 --> 01:14:20,700
I'm glad you stood up as a dad 
that did the right thing and I'm

1526
01:14:20,700 --> 01:14:22,100
glad you had the restraint that 
you did. 

1527
01:14:22,700 --> 01:14:25,900
I'm going to let Phil kind of do
a couple of quick readouts on it

1528
01:14:25,900 --> 01:14:28,200
that he was gonna give us out. 
But thank you so much for 

1529
01:14:28,200 --> 01:14:31,500
sharing your story, a long form.
I'm more educated on it before 

1530
01:14:31,500 --> 01:14:33,100
we do that. 
That and we'll put this in the 

1531
01:14:33,100 --> 01:14:35,100
show notes. 
Tell people how they can follow 

1532
01:14:35,100 --> 01:14:37,400
you support you. 
The now, they can find your 

1533
01:14:37,400 --> 01:14:39,700
seminars if they're men that are
that are curious about the 

1534
01:14:39,708 --> 01:14:40,900
things you've been talking 
about. 

1535
01:14:40,900 --> 01:14:42,700
Kind of give us a little little 
pitch there. 

1536
01:14:43,400 --> 01:14:44,600
Yeah. 
Thanks again, Kyle and Phil I 

1537
01:14:44,608 --> 01:14:48,300
appreciate it. 
Just go to The Kingsmen dot org 

1538
01:14:48,300 --> 01:14:51,100
and they can link to everything.
I was talking about today as far

1539
01:14:51,100 --> 01:14:54,300
as the retreats in the men's 
groups, the King's Men dot-org. 

1540
01:14:54,800 --> 01:14:57,800
And you guys have a social media
presence on any of the the big 

1541
01:14:57,800 --> 01:15:00,300
platforms are there. 
They can click on all that stuff

1542
01:15:00,300 --> 01:15:02,800
when they get onto the website. 
But there's Twitter and some 

1543
01:15:02,800 --> 01:15:04,400
social media there. 
Okay. 

1544
01:15:04,400 --> 01:15:05,900
Fantastic. 
So that'll be in the show notes,

1545
01:15:05,900 --> 01:15:07,000
folks, you can click down 
through it. 

1546
01:15:07,000 --> 01:15:10,900
The King's Men dot or not to be 
confused with the movie that had

1547
01:15:11,200 --> 01:15:13,000
whatever those. 
Those goofy young guys 

1548
01:15:13,000 --> 01:15:15,800
pretending to be spies filled. 
You want to read us out with any

1549
01:15:16,300 --> 01:15:18,800
interesting information? 
Yeah, sure. 

1550
01:15:18,900 --> 01:15:22,300
So again, thanks to everybody 
who's given to the gifts and go 

1551
01:15:22,400 --> 01:15:24,200
to help support the 
whistleblowers. 

1552
01:15:24,200 --> 01:15:27,200
This is spendables over here on 
the Kyle, serif and show. 

1553
01:15:27,500 --> 01:15:31,700
We had two nice ones. 
Recently come in one from Rod. 

1554
01:15:31,800 --> 01:15:33,900
God bless you. 
Thank you for your patriotism, 

1555
01:15:34,400 --> 01:15:37,200
and another one from Anonymous 
donor, God bless you and your 

1556
01:15:37,200 --> 01:15:40,800
efforts to bring sanity to our 
American constitutional 

1557
01:15:40,800 --> 01:15:43,500
republic. 
Also still taken five star 

1558
01:15:43,500 --> 01:15:45,100
reviews. 
Thanks to everybody who's giving

1559
01:15:45,100 --> 01:15:47,300
us a five star review. 
It helps the Kyle center from 

1560
01:15:47,300 --> 01:15:51,700
show, move up the charts. 
Like this one, from rapid-fire 

1561
01:15:51,700 --> 01:15:54,300
wisdom. 
Unlike other podcasters who try 

1562
01:15:54,300 --> 01:15:57,100
to fill an hour by repeating 
themselves and being drama 

1563
01:15:57,100 --> 01:15:59,500
queens. 
Kyle, constantly as something 

1564
01:15:59,500 --> 01:16:02,300
valuable and interesting to say 
is Bid. 

1565
01:16:02,300 --> 01:16:06,200
Speech rapid speech, rather. 
Shows there's no emptiness in 

1566
01:16:06,208 --> 01:16:07,500
that hair. 
Covered computer. 

1567
01:16:07,700 --> 01:16:10,200
Always a great. 
Listen, I'd finally just a 

1568
01:16:10,208 --> 01:16:13,600
reminder to everybody that our 
buddy, Steve Friends, book is 

1569
01:16:13,600 --> 01:16:17,700
still out there for presale, 
true blue look for it on Amazon 

1570
01:16:17,700 --> 01:16:22,700
True Blue by Steve friend and 
number five Kyle on the a, yes, 

1571
01:16:24,300 --> 01:16:26,400
yeah, I'm at government 
corruption last year and his 

1572
01:16:26,400 --> 01:16:29,100
thing mark, thank you so much 
for spending time with us. 

1573
01:16:29,100 --> 01:16:31,800
After Super Bowl Sunday, I 
didn't watch the game, but I I 

1574
01:16:31,808 --> 01:16:37,200
imagine that some of the Chiefs 
win so who you were. 

1575
01:16:37,200 --> 01:16:38,900
Yeah. 
You guys on the other side I was

1576
01:16:39,300 --> 01:16:42,400
my have a strange connection to 
filled to Kansas City and not 

1577
01:16:42,400 --> 01:16:43,900
the strong one but my dad 
actually worked there for a 

1578
01:16:43,907 --> 01:16:45,900
number of years for the for the 
Royals. 

1579
01:16:46,100 --> 01:16:48,400
So I figured of the to I got no 
connection to Philly at all 

1580
01:16:48,400 --> 01:16:50,800
because I'm sorry it's slope, 
they won't be flipping over. 

1581
01:16:50,900 --> 01:16:53,300
They won't be flipping over 
extra cars or maybe they will, 

1582
01:16:53,300 --> 01:16:55,100
maybe that's what they do when 
they lose to yet. 

1583
01:16:55,100 --> 01:16:57,600
I saw some, some, some pregame 
Shenanigans. 

1584
01:16:57,600 --> 01:16:59,200
Yeah. 
Anything that close looks good. 

1585
01:16:59,500 --> 01:17:01,000
Thanks so much for spending your
evening with us. 

1586
01:17:01,400 --> 01:17:04,100
We really We appreciate it and 
we wish you the best of luck. 

1587
01:17:04,100 --> 01:17:05,900
And I'm going to be looking into
The Kingsmen that org, 

1588
01:17:05,900 --> 01:17:07,400
especially when you guys are out
here in Arizona. 

1589
01:17:07,600 --> 01:17:10,600
That sounds like a interesting 
thing to catch up with look 

1590
01:17:10,600 --> 01:17:11,600
forward to it. 
Thanks so much. 

1591
01:17:11,600 --> 01:17:13,200
God bless you guys. 
All right, yeah. 

1592
01:17:13,200 --> 01:17:14,600
God bless you too. 
Thanks so much and 

1593
01:17:14,600 --> 01:17:16,200
congratulations on your victory 
in court. 

1594
01:17:16,300 --> 01:17:18,300
Thanks for listening to the Kyle
Serafin. 

1595
01:17:18,300 --> 01:17:22,200
Show be sure to follow him on 
Twitter and Truth at Kyle's 

1596
01:17:22,200 --> 01:17:23,000
seraphin.