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Take a look behind the curtain 
with a real whistleblower, an 

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American patriot. 
Prepare to embrace the 

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uncomfortable truth, because 
this program has no time for 

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comforting lies. 
Here is civil liberties 

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enthusiast, Second Amendment 
defender, and recovering FBI 

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agent Kyle Seraf. 
Hello my friends. 

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Welcome to the Kyle Seraphin 
Show. 

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It's Monday, July the 10th. 
It is 9:30 on the East Coast and

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8:30 here in Texas, America, 
welcome to our show. 

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Thanks for joining us. 
Got another one of the long form

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interviews that we're going to 
be doing today interviewed A 

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journalist and this is kind of a
profile series. 

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We're doing a chance for you to 
get to know some of the 

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journalists that are out there 
writing. 

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This gentleman writes for the 
Gateway Pundit. 

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And what I want you to be able 
to do is to evaluate critically 

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the source of the information. 
So often times we go, when we 

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find an article, the article 
seems to tell us something that 

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we like, so we keep it. 
It tells us something we don't 

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like, so we discard it. 
What I want people to do is to 

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think critically and to evaluate
everyone based on a few things. 

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Number one, what is the access 
that this particular journalist 

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has to the information #2 What 
is the bias that they bring to 

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the story that they're writing? 
Do they have an agenda? 

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And if so, is it something that 
is going to discredit what they 

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are putting out? 
And one of the ways we do that 

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is getting to know them as a 
person asking the questions, 

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where do they come from? 
What is the the world view that 

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they look at? 
How is it that they assess the 

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information that comes in and do
they have? 

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You know some readily available 
biases that they're willing to 

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admit to. 
So we can kind of put it in that

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lens and then decide whether to 
keep or discard the information 

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that's being shared. 
That's the goal. 

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That's what we're doing here. 
I'm going to give you a couple 

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of profiles. 
This will be number two of our 

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sort of blue collar journalists.
And then once you have that 

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information, I'm going to be 
bringing these people back on, 

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you can always refer back to the
long form profiles about who 

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they are because I want them to 
be able to kind of give us 

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updates on what's going on in 
the world from another voice 

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other than my own. 
And everybody is out there kind 

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of investigating and and 
analyzing and and keeping track 

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of different types of stories. 
We can't do them all. 

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So the best opportunity we have 
is going to be to bring these 

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folks on, share them with you. 
But first I want to expose them 

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to a little bit of our scrutiny 
so we can kind of decide how 

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that information is being 
gathered. 

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And what we think of it. 
So that's that's really the goal

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here. 
You're going to really enjoy 

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this interview. 
If you'll give me a just a 

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little bit of a Mulligan, When 
we connected with Bradley, his 

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I'm sorry with Sean, his name is
Sean Bradley Witzman and his 

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video is mediocre. 
For the first hour of this 

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interview, so bear with me on 
that. 

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But the audio was very good and 
that's really the most important

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thing to convey. 
So we didn't, we didn't have a 

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fantastic visual presentation. 
I think you guys will get past 

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it because the things he has to 
say are quite excellent. 

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Before we get into any of those 
things, I do want to say quick 

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thank yous to our sponsors, 
particularly our friends over at

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Patriot Coolers. 
Let me pull them up real quickly

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here. 
Patriot Coolers, they are built 

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for freedom. 
They are a American company out 

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of Houston, TX that makes an 
excellent product. 

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They also sponsor the Kyle 
Seraphen show you can use. 

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Promo code Kyle KYLEKYLE gets 
you 10% off. 

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If you spend 50 bucks or more. 
You guys know the deal. 

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You get free shipping. 
That's pretty easy to do. 

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What you're seeing right there 
is a floating soft sided cooler.

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This is one of the ones that I 
actually hold. 

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I think it is supposed to be 
rated for 24 cans if you were to

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put that in there plus some ice.
I've been able to get 17 

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bottles. 
I put 17 bottles of Yingling in 

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there when I loaded mine up and 
took it on the road. 

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Kind of nice because you can use
it in the back of a vehicle. 

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You can use it for trips to 
Costco or long trips to where 

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you're going to have frozen 
goods. 

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So it is actually something I I 
end up using quite a bit. 

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And then they also have their 
big Rotomode coolers. 

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If you don't have like a Yeti or
an Arctic or a big igloo like 

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one of these things keeps ice 
for days. 

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Consider it. 
It's one of those great kind of 

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tools. 
You never know when you might do

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it. 
I keep one in the garage and we 

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throw one in the back whenever 
we make a long trip. 

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Very helpful and an excellent 
design. 

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These things are as good or 
better than the than the 

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competition I would say and 
they're also less expensive. 

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Plus you're benefiting the 
veterans that they support with 

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a little bit of all their sales,
they go to support veterans 

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mobility. 
Again, Patriot coolers.com. 

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You can find them on social 
media at Patriot Coolers and you

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can use promo code. 
Kyle, Kyle, let's see here. 

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I've also got Catholic vote up 
and I want to bring this thing 

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up before we do that. 
We got a little another angle 

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here. 
You can see right up here on my 

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screen if you're watching on the
Rumble channel, this is the loop

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that I get every morning. 
I get this in my e-mail and 

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Catholic Float has a couple 
stories that are going on. 

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Like I said, they they kind of 
give you just a little snapshot 

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of what's happening in the 
country. 

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The thing that I like in this 
case, there's a story about 

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politics over medicine that's 
happening in Utah. 

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There's a story about liberals 
fighting bans on transgender 

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surgery. 
You've got the Southern Poverty 

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Law Center in a CLU filing 
lawsuits in Georgia. 

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There's another story about 
illegal immigrants being housed 

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in New York City schools. 
So if you want to sign up and 

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get some of these kind of quick 
and quick and easy useful 

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stories, they're a mixture of 
Catholic votes on Newswire and 

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some of the the stuff that's out
there on Breitbart and Fox and 

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so on. 
Check them out at 

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catholicvote.org. 
If you're watching the Rumble 

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channel, you can see their their
splash page, their home page, 

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which has a spot just for your 
e-mail and your zip code. 

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And when you put that in, you 
will be able to get access to 

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the loop. 
It will loop you in. 

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We're a big fan of them and 
we're really appreciative of 

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what they've been up to, kind of
supporting us. 

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So this is. 
This is the day today you're 

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going to be hearing a long form 
interview with a Gateway Pundit 

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reporter. 
I'll be back in here at the end 

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of it. 
This is what we call a live 

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premiere. 
So we taped this a couple days 

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ago. 
So some of the information if he

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references the actual day. 
I think we did this on the 4th 

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of July and I'm going to be 
trying to put these in the can 

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so that you guys can get them. 
There's not a lot of production 

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other than just a couple guys 
sitting down and talking. 

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And Ryan Maddow was in the 
background making sure that it 

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ran smoothly. 
So here we go ladies and 

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gentlemen, I think you're very 
much going to enjoy this. 

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Like I said, excuse the video 
quality and let's rock'n'roll. 

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And my guest today is Sean 
Bradley Weitzman. 

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Hopefully I said that right. 
Sean, you have to correct me. 

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He's an independent journalist, 
also known as a free range 

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journalist. 
He's got no restrictions. 

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We're going to talk about where 
he's from, why he's a reporter 

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now and and some of the wild 
things that he's seen. 

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He's had an interesting journey.
So let's get into that right 

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now, Sean, Welcome to the show. 
Thanks for having me, Kyle. 

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It's a pleasure. 
But of course you did say the 

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name wrong. 
It is. 

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It is Witsman So. 
Witsman, is that a New Mexico 

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thing, you think? 
No, it's, you know, it's 

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honestly, it's supposed to be, 
you know, like Viet Simon, 

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right, because of the German 
thing. 

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But you know, I don't, I don't 
know where that goes along. 

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It's been, said Whitesman. 
A lot. 

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I don't know why. 
I think that just triggers me 

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just because you know that 
they're they're immediately it 

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seems to be some sort of 
connotation but. 

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There's, yeah, there's sort of 
like a racial issue there. 

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Yeah, it's probably after being 
called, you know, a violent 

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insurrectionist for. 2 1/2 years
That probably has something to 

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do with it as well, but. 
That that checks out. 

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So Vitzman, I I should have 
known too, because you look a 

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lot like one of my you could 
have been a cousin of my best 

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buddy from high school. 
His last name is Metzger. 

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And so he's got that Germanic 
kind of blood. 

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He's got the same sort of head. 
It's kind of nice and round and 

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smooth. 
He's got kind of that beard look

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thing. 
OK, so. 

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So Sean, tell me where you're 
from. 

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So I am from Farmington, NM, a 
little town there in the 

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northwest corner of the state. 
Grew up there, born and raised. 

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You know, I was going to college
very early on and and studying 

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philosophy, psychology, kind of 
this, you know, various things. 

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Didn't really know what I wanted
to do. 

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I like too many subjects. 
That's kind of a problem. 

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But actually ended up at the 
time getting my girlfriend 

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pregnant and so my life took a 
different turn and I needed to 

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take care of that, so. 
I, I went into the family 

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business. 
My father was a plumber owned 

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his own business. 
So I kind of followed in his 

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footsteps, spent many years 
doing that, managed another 

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company in the area, became 
general manager of that and then

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went on to start my own plumbing
company in 2017 And and that's 

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that's kind of the basis of that
I I don't know if there's any 

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questions there how we roll, but
you know from there. 

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I guess I had my midlife crisis 
and and after being successful 

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as a plumber, you know, I kind 
of look back and I said, well, 

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you know, I'm kind of pushing 
paper right now. 

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I think I'll, you know, go back 
into doing, you know, maybe 

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something more creative, 
something that I wanted to do. 

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So I I started a satire page in 
Farmington, actually called the 

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Farmington Tribune. 
And we would put out just fake 

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stories, some of them funny. 
Some of them were very based in.

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Reality that doesn't get 
discussed a lot of times you 

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could you could kind of cloak 
things within a within a dark 

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joke sometimes. 
So that again that was that was 

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very popular lots of viral posts
one of the major ones that got 

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reported on by 9 news in Denver 
was we had said that they were 

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going to remove the Big Blue 
horse statue in front of DIA 

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because it had killed somebody 
so that is. 

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That the one with the big red 
eyes. 

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Yeah, yeah, Blue Surfer, they 
call it. 

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So you know, that one went nuts.
The very viral. 

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You know, another story that 
went viral. 

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As we said, the governor of New 
Mexico, Michelle Luon Grisham, 

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was going to make Ramadan, a 
state holiday that went nuts. 

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Another one, I said that local 
officials from the Department of

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Game and Fish were smuggling 
marijuana into New Mexico so 

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that they could sell it and make
money for the state budget. 

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It seems like very plausible. 
I guess that's how satires is 

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done best. 
Well, yeah. 

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And that probably has a lot to 
do with why I got into real 

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journalism. 
You know, one of the reasons is 

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is just because you write satire
long enough, you start watching 

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it come true and and you're 
making stuff up. 

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But boy, it's it's been a wild 
three years and and and that 

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it's funny because when when 
people would say that they were 

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fake news stories. 
I would tell him no, no, This 

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has been independently verified 
by the Armenian Council for 

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Truth and Journalism and that 
was just kind of a sarcastic 

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joke and and you can go check 
that there's there's still an 

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article up from 9 News where 
they quoted me as saying that 

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one was still anonymous. 
And and they had no, they had no

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ability to go and Fact Check 
that themselves. 

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Well, no, they. 
I mean, they understood that it 

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was funny and I even had a fake.
You know separate page set up 

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that talked about how the 
council was founded at the foot 

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of Mount Ararat when you know 
Noah disembarked from New York. 

225
00:10:16,900 --> 00:10:20,580
It was it was a whole thing and 
and you know so that so they 

226
00:10:20,580 --> 00:10:22,660
would go with it. 
And I just I told 9 news at the 

227
00:10:22,660 --> 00:10:25,500
time I said as far as I know 
your stories are not accredited 

228
00:10:25,540 --> 00:10:29,580
accredited by the A/C TJ So I 
cast a shadow of doubt on the 

229
00:10:29,740 --> 00:10:32,140
assertion that your stories are 
anything other than fake news. 

230
00:10:32,140 --> 00:10:34,340
So it was all very fun and 
tongue in cheek but. 

231
00:10:35,020 --> 00:10:37,460
That actually ended up leading 
me, you know, after making those

232
00:10:37,460 --> 00:10:40,460
jokes when I started my media 
company, Tribune Media 

233
00:10:40,460 --> 00:10:45,740
International, in 2019, the 
first trip or the first idea I 

234
00:10:45,740 --> 00:10:49,980
had was to go to Armenia and you
know, kind of satirically go 

235
00:10:49,980 --> 00:10:52,020
find the Council for Truth and 
Journalism. 

236
00:10:52,780 --> 00:10:54,780
So. 
So that's what I did. 

237
00:10:55,460 --> 00:11:00,180
That trip is like a whole story 
in and of itself, very eye 

238
00:11:00,180 --> 00:11:03,950
opening kind of. 
Came face to face with some of 

239
00:11:03,950 --> 00:11:07,870
the realities of, you know, 
human trafficking and slavery in

240
00:11:07,870 --> 00:11:12,390
that region of the world. 
So that had a profound effect on

241
00:11:12,390 --> 00:11:16,630
me, to say the least. 
When I came back, the next trip 

242
00:11:16,630 --> 00:11:20,870
was actually to the UK and so I 
spent some time over there, 

243
00:11:20,950 --> 00:11:24,670
Ireland, Scotland. 
So that would have been early 

244
00:11:24,670 --> 00:11:28,510
2020 was when I was in the UK 
and when I got back from that 

245
00:11:28,510 --> 00:11:32,010
trip in. 
Man, it was. 

246
00:11:32,010 --> 00:11:35,170
It was probably mid February, as
I recall when I got back from 

247
00:11:35,170 --> 00:11:37,530
that trip. 
You know, we were watching what 

248
00:11:37,530 --> 00:11:40,490
was going on with with the scam,
demick and everything. 

249
00:11:41,290 --> 00:11:45,410
And at the time, the plan was 
actually to go to Ukraine in the

250
00:11:45,410 --> 00:11:47,130
summer. 
I was planning on going to 

251
00:11:47,130 --> 00:11:49,410
Ukraine, spending at least two 
months there. 

252
00:11:50,570 --> 00:11:53,050
But you know, the world shut 
down, things changed. 

253
00:11:53,050 --> 00:11:58,690
And I I wound up getting wrapped
up into American politics or 

254
00:11:58,810 --> 00:12:02,060
domestic matters. 
Spent a lot of time covering 

255
00:12:02,420 --> 00:12:06,820
Black Lives Matter protests and 
riots in Denver. 

256
00:12:06,820 --> 00:12:09,780
I had correspondence really all 
over the world and and the 

257
00:12:09,780 --> 00:12:12,940
country that would send me an 
information or live stream 

258
00:12:13,500 --> 00:12:16,740
journalism at the time. 
And so, you know, I was deep 

259
00:12:16,740 --> 00:12:19,220
into that, you know, 
understanding what was going on 

260
00:12:19,220 --> 00:12:21,740
there. 
You know, seeing a lot of 

261
00:12:21,940 --> 00:12:25,940
incitement, you know, bad actors
on both sides, good actors on 

262
00:12:26,020 --> 00:12:29,600
all sides too. 
And so, you know, after the 

263
00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:34,000
election, that's what, you know,
led me to go and cover things in

264
00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:37,120
DC and around the country as far
as the mag of protests. 

265
00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:39,920
You mentioned political 
protests. 

266
00:12:39,920 --> 00:12:43,280
You mentioned sort of your your 
lens a little bit that you've 

267
00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:45,640
got people from both sides and 
you know, that's an interesting,

268
00:12:45,640 --> 00:12:47,280
nuanced position. 
What's your political bent? 

269
00:12:48,200 --> 00:12:51,080
Oh, my political bent is I don't
like politicians. 

270
00:12:52,160 --> 00:12:54,440
That's fair. 
That leave you as far as you 

271
00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:57,280
know, is there a major party you
identify with or upper or lower 

272
00:12:57,280 --> 00:12:59,870
case? 
No, I I've always been 

273
00:12:59,870 --> 00:13:02,550
independent, always will be 
independent. 

274
00:13:02,550 --> 00:13:07,670
I have no desire or need to join
a political party. 

275
00:13:09,310 --> 00:13:11,310
It's just not something I was 
ever interested in. 

276
00:13:11,310 --> 00:13:15,030
I voted for people in all 
parties over the years to be 

277
00:13:15,030 --> 00:13:17,150
honest. 
So you know, I'm not. 

278
00:13:17,790 --> 00:13:20,270
I think, I think you know 
obviously after you know getting

279
00:13:20,270 --> 00:13:23,870
wrapped in January 6th and all 
of that, you know, there was 

280
00:13:23,870 --> 00:13:27,260
definitely. 
False information or I guess I 

281
00:13:27,260 --> 00:13:28,820
would say incomplete 
information. 

282
00:13:28,820 --> 00:13:33,020
As far as to what my political 
ideology is, I've often told 

283
00:13:33,020 --> 00:13:38,580
people that philosophically I'm 
an anarchist, you know, now 

284
00:13:38,580 --> 00:13:41,020
pragmatically I'm a 
constitutionalist. 

285
00:13:41,500 --> 00:13:45,780
So sometimes the that kind of 
concept or nuance is difficult 

286
00:13:45,780 --> 00:13:49,020
for people to understand. 
But you know, that's after years

287
00:13:49,020 --> 00:13:53,060
of of thinking about the matter,
thinking about freedom, a big 

288
00:13:53,060 --> 00:13:56,800
fan of. 
Tolstoy and his writings, So 

289
00:13:56,800 --> 00:14:01,200
those are highly influential 
into my thinking and and just 

290
00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:04,520
really trying to be as a 
journalist, trying to tell both 

291
00:14:04,520 --> 00:14:07,840
sides of the story, regardless 
of any biases I may have. 

292
00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:10,760
And I and I do try to put that 
aside, you know. 

293
00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:14,720
Obviously it doesn't always work
out, but I try to at least be 

294
00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:17,520
honest about that as well. 
Do you think there's a lot of 

295
00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:22,870
plumbers that read Tolstoy? 
You know I don't know The thing 

296
00:14:22,870 --> 00:14:26,150
is I there there probably is 
more than people realize. 

297
00:14:26,830 --> 00:14:29,550
You know, I was kind of 
remarking on this because some 

298
00:14:29,550 --> 00:14:34,830
of the recent news that's come 
out about UAP disclosure or 

299
00:14:34,830 --> 00:14:38,070
otherwise and there was a, there
was a gentleman that was part of

300
00:14:38,070 --> 00:14:43,310
the Greer kind of disclosure 
conference in DCA few weeks ago.

301
00:14:43,510 --> 00:14:46,790
What is UAP? 
Unidentified Anomalous 

302
00:14:46,790 --> 00:14:49,110
phenomena. 
So you know UFO's and things 

303
00:14:49,110 --> 00:14:52,410
like that. 
But there was a, there was an 

304
00:14:52,410 --> 00:14:56,330
HVAC guy and and he worked out 
at the South Pole Station in 

305
00:14:56,330 --> 00:14:58,570
Antarctica. 
And, you know, a lot of people 

306
00:14:58,570 --> 00:15:01,690
that I've spoken to about his 
testimony where he was actually 

307
00:15:02,050 --> 00:15:05,170
discussing the idea of the South
Pole Station being used as, you 

308
00:15:05,170 --> 00:15:08,970
know, an earthquake machine. 
You know, a lot of people I've 

309
00:15:08,970 --> 00:15:11,570
spoken to, they said that he 
would be in a position to kind 

310
00:15:11,570 --> 00:15:13,530
of see past the 
compartmentalization. 

311
00:15:13,970 --> 00:15:17,490
And admittedly, people who are 
in those trades understand a lot

312
00:15:17,490 --> 00:15:19,900
of engineering principles. 
You know, whether it's 

313
00:15:19,900 --> 00:15:24,180
electrical, fluid dynamics, you 
know, so all these different 

314
00:15:24,180 --> 00:15:25,940
things. 
So it's like science is all 

315
00:15:25,940 --> 00:15:27,900
wrapped up in that industry as 
well. 

316
00:15:27,940 --> 00:15:30,140
So you know, I think there's 
more, you know, to get back to 

317
00:15:30,140 --> 00:15:33,180
the question. 
I think there's probably more 

318
00:15:33,180 --> 00:15:35,860
intellectual tradesmen than 
people realize. 

319
00:15:36,950 --> 00:15:40,150
I think you're correct. 
And we just had one a moment ago

320
00:15:40,150 --> 00:15:42,910
on our show talking about that 
and and he was an HVAC guy. 

321
00:15:42,910 --> 00:15:46,630
And so historically reporters 
have come from blue collar 

322
00:15:46,630 --> 00:15:48,590
backgrounds. 
They have sort of a fundamental 

323
00:15:48,590 --> 00:15:50,350
understanding of how the world 
works, right. 

324
00:15:50,710 --> 00:15:53,430
And then they go out there and 
they report on it For everyday 

325
00:15:53,430 --> 00:15:56,270
people who are often times 
tradesmen and things like that, 

326
00:15:56,950 --> 00:15:59,750
what was the transition that got
you in that you went from 

327
00:15:59,750 --> 00:16:02,990
writing satirical, you know, did
you, did you have some real push

328
00:16:02,990 --> 00:16:05,230
impetus or was it just the 
natural evolution when you were 

329
00:16:05,230 --> 00:16:07,310
dealing with that? 
Well, yeah, I think there was, 

330
00:16:07,310 --> 00:16:09,430
there was. 
It's like it was meant to 

331
00:16:09,430 --> 00:16:12,070
happen. 
I I often speak about you know, 

332
00:16:12,070 --> 00:16:17,950
divine Providence or retro 
causal effects where it almost 

333
00:16:17,950 --> 00:16:21,150
seems like things are laid out 
it before you in a certain 

334
00:16:21,150 --> 00:16:22,590
aspect. 
It was interesting if you talk 

335
00:16:22,590 --> 00:16:30,270
about the blue collar part of 
that story early on in 2016 my 

336
00:16:30,270 --> 00:16:33,190
neighborhood in Farmington, NM 
didn't have any water because 

337
00:16:33,190 --> 00:16:36,560
the local water company. 
Was having issues. 

338
00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:39,720
So a friend of mine, we actually
said, well, nobody else is 

339
00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:41,760
looking into this, so we went 
and investigated it. 

340
00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:44,560
I actually went to the water 
treatment plant, acted like I 

341
00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:47,560
owned the place, said I was 
there to do an inspection and I 

342
00:16:47,560 --> 00:16:50,440
did an inspection and then I 
released all that information 

343
00:16:50,440 --> 00:16:55,000
publicly. 
Sorry, I just that that's the 

344
00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:58,960
classic ruse and it seems like 
you have an instinct on how to 

345
00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:01,200
do that. 
I keep talking to people that 

346
00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:03,440
claim to be journalists that 
have no idea how to. 

347
00:17:04,569 --> 00:17:08,170
How to get information in a way 
that is creative, Let's call it.

348
00:17:08,810 --> 00:17:10,890
Well, yeah, I mean, look, I mean
that it's funny. 

349
00:17:10,890 --> 00:17:12,170
And I think that's part of it 
too. 

350
00:17:12,810 --> 00:17:15,450
You know, when you troubleshoot 
complex systems, you have to 

351
00:17:15,450 --> 00:17:17,329
have an understanding of complex
systems. 

352
00:17:17,970 --> 00:17:20,130
You're dealing with a lot of 
different components that can go

353
00:17:20,130 --> 00:17:22,609
bad. 
So you're kind of trying to 

354
00:17:23,130 --> 00:17:26,250
paint an understanding of a 
very, you know, complicated 

355
00:17:26,250 --> 00:17:28,530
picture. 
And that's and so I think all of

356
00:17:28,530 --> 00:17:31,570
those skills, you know, as an 
analyst. 

357
00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:34,960
Play into being a journalist and
then just my desire to really 

358
00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:36,640
help people. 
I mean that's that's a genuine 

359
00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:38,560
desire. 
You know, I have a desire to 

360
00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:40,760
tell the truth. 
You know, as I mentioned, the 

361
00:17:40,760 --> 00:17:42,720
trip to Armenia was life 
changing. 

362
00:17:44,120 --> 00:17:47,120
I had heard things about human 
trafficking and even had some 

363
00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:52,320
even more personal experiences 
in that regard prior to going 

364
00:17:52,320 --> 00:17:54,240
there. 
But to kind of just see the 

365
00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:58,720
amount of money that goes into 
that industry, I guess that was 

366
00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:02,480
what was somewhat shocking. 
You know that it's interesting. 

367
00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:04,840
Last night I was just speaking 
to an expert on human 

368
00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:07,480
trafficking and and that's what 
she was saying is a major 

369
00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:09,800
misconception is that people 
just think it's the elites. 

370
00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:13,360
It's, it's, but it's not. 
It's a massive, you know, global

371
00:18:13,360 --> 00:18:15,840
business and it's slavery and 
it's and it's very dark. 

372
00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:20,160
So I think that plays a lot into
why I wanted to get more 

373
00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:22,480
serious. 
Obviously I saw things turning 

374
00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:24,920
South in Ukraine, which is why I
wanted to go over there. 

375
00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:26,760
I wanted to spend some time in 
the dumb boss. 

376
00:18:27,750 --> 00:18:30,350
And and investigate that and 
speak to the people on the 

377
00:18:30,350 --> 00:18:31,670
ground and learn more about 
them. 

378
00:18:32,470 --> 00:18:35,870
You know, I'm very fascinated 
with Eastern Europe in general 

379
00:18:35,950 --> 00:18:40,430
as far as lessons that America 
can learn about, you know, how 

380
00:18:40,430 --> 00:18:43,750
to survive the collapse of an 
empire. 

381
00:18:45,430 --> 00:18:48,830
Because I think we've got to 
look around at the world and say

382
00:18:48,830 --> 00:18:51,590
things are not going well for 
the United States right now on 

383
00:18:51,590 --> 00:18:54,550
this July 4th. 
You know, we've got a lot of 

384
00:18:54,550 --> 00:18:55,950
tough. 
We got a lot of tough times 

385
00:18:55,950 --> 00:18:58,450
ahead. 
Yeah, I think that I think 

386
00:18:58,450 --> 00:19:02,450
that's a sobering look at it. 
So let's let's discuss maybe 

387
00:19:02,450 --> 00:19:04,850
America and then maybe the 
lessons we can take in from what

388
00:19:04,850 --> 00:19:07,970
you've seen outside. 
For starters, you were one of 

389
00:19:07,970 --> 00:19:11,850
the people covering the events 
that happened on January 6th. 

390
00:19:11,850 --> 00:19:14,930
I saw that your your bio says 
something about Gonzo 

391
00:19:14,930 --> 00:19:16,730
journalism. 
Can you tell people what Gonzo 

392
00:19:16,730 --> 00:19:19,410
is and and how you see yourself 
in your role as a journalist? 

393
00:19:20,090 --> 00:19:22,970
Well, Gonzo journalism, I mean, 
it goes back to creative ways of

394
00:19:22,970 --> 00:19:25,650
finding the truth. 
I mean, to go full gonzo, you 

395
00:19:25,650 --> 00:19:29,490
pretty much inject yourself into
a story and you roll with it. 

396
00:19:29,930 --> 00:19:34,690
It's modeled off of the work of 
the great doctor of journalism, 

397
00:19:34,690 --> 00:19:36,170
Hunter S Thompson. 
He's a. 

398
00:19:36,290 --> 00:19:38,930
Doctor of Journalism. 
Man, yeah, that's right. 

399
00:19:38,930 --> 00:19:41,770
That's right. 
You know, but but that's, you 

400
00:19:41,770 --> 00:19:46,250
know, his style of telling a 
story was always my favorite. 

401
00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:49,360
You know, even when we talk 
about Matt Taibbi, you know, 

402
00:19:49,360 --> 00:19:51,840
being a big inspiration as well,
growing up, I would read his 

403
00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:56,280
work in Rolling Stone and I and 
I always appreciated the kind of

404
00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:58,760
raw honesty aspect of it. 
So that's something I tried to 

405
00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:01,320
model in myself. 
And then when you're doing live 

406
00:20:01,320 --> 00:20:04,280
stream journalism again, it's 
it's to your advantage to just 

407
00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:06,440
get into it. 
It's like I say, you know, when 

408
00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:10,760
I was embedded essentially with 
Proud Boys throughout the three 

409
00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:14,400
different protests in DCI was 
down in Atlanta and Phoenix as 

410
00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:16,780
well. 
You know if you're if you're 

411
00:20:16,780 --> 00:20:18,900
just kind of hanging out with 
them, drinking beers and having 

412
00:20:18,900 --> 00:20:23,100
a good time, you learn a lot 1 
way or the other. 

413
00:20:23,980 --> 00:20:26,780
And so that was very important 
to me, you know to get that 

414
00:20:26,780 --> 00:20:29,980
truth out, especially after 
spending a summer covering BLM 

415
00:20:29,980 --> 00:20:32,260
protests and trying to kind of 
humanize a lot of that. 

416
00:20:32,260 --> 00:20:34,740
While people were making 
threats, you know, these kids 

417
00:20:34,740 --> 00:20:36,700
were standing in the street 
making their voices heard. 

418
00:20:36,700 --> 00:20:38,700
And for whatever it's worth and 
people are going out, we're 

419
00:20:38,700 --> 00:20:41,060
going to run them over. 
We want blood on the streets and

420
00:20:41,060 --> 00:20:42,740
it just gets it just gets 
insane. 

421
00:20:43,060 --> 00:20:44,940
And I saw the same thing going 
on where. 

422
00:20:45,590 --> 00:20:49,150
When I when I ran into Proud 
Boys on November 14th, I didn't 

423
00:20:49,150 --> 00:20:52,070
know a whole lot about them. 
I only knew what the media 

424
00:20:52,070 --> 00:20:55,190
reports were, and I saw a 
completely different picture. 

425
00:20:55,190 --> 00:20:58,270
I saw people who had lots of 
different political ideologies, 

426
00:20:58,590 --> 00:21:01,630
who came from blue collar 
backgrounds, who weren't 

427
00:21:01,630 --> 00:21:03,750
racists, who weren't white 
supremacists. 

428
00:21:04,070 --> 00:21:06,190
And I thought that was a story 
that needed to be told. 

429
00:21:06,510 --> 00:21:09,030
So, you know, that's that's 
really what I did. 

430
00:21:09,030 --> 00:21:12,070
And it was that work that led me
all the way inside the Capitol 

431
00:21:12,070 --> 00:21:15,200
on January 6th. 
You mentioned that they're not 

432
00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:17,720
white supremacists. 
They have different ideologies. 

433
00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:20,480
They're not racists. 
Why do you think the smear has 

434
00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:23,400
been that that bent? 
And and by the way, I I've seen,

435
00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:26,000
I've seen this done inside the 
FBI, they've actually said these

436
00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:27,280
things. 
So how did that catch on? 

437
00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:30,360
Well, I think, look, let's, if 
if we're being very honest 

438
00:21:30,360 --> 00:21:32,680
there, there are white 
supremacist Proud Boys. 

439
00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:36,840
But I think that that also 
speaks to their overall ideology

440
00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:39,320
that they struggled with as an 
organization where they wanted 

441
00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:42,600
to be pro free speech, free 
speech, absolutist. 

442
00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:46,350
That's part of their tenants. 
And and so I know that there 

443
00:21:46,350 --> 00:21:48,870
were struggles about that, about
how to deal with people who 

444
00:21:48,870 --> 00:21:52,070
were, you know, white 
supremacists or otherwise. 

445
00:21:52,150 --> 00:21:54,950
And you know, that was why their
general attitude was to just not

446
00:21:54,950 --> 00:21:58,430
talk to the press. 
I think that that probably hurt 

447
00:21:58,430 --> 00:22:01,630
them on a on a PR level in some 
respects. 

448
00:22:01,950 --> 00:22:03,310
But again, that's their 
decision. 

449
00:22:03,670 --> 00:22:06,950
And then the other thing is, I 
think it's just advantageous for

450
00:22:07,550 --> 00:22:13,500
a controlled left wing media. 
To paint any opposition to their

451
00:22:13,500 --> 00:22:19,300
agenda as somehow being extreme.
So you think it's a left wing 

452
00:22:19,300 --> 00:22:21,340
prerogative to to put that out 
there? 

453
00:22:21,860 --> 00:22:24,580
Well, yeah. 
And and from a, I mean if you 

454
00:22:24,580 --> 00:22:28,140
step back and you look at it 
from 100,000 foot view, you 

455
00:22:28,140 --> 00:22:30,740
know, this is something that 
I've spoken about a lot is the 

456
00:22:30,740 --> 00:22:35,940
work of Yuri Bezmanoff, the 
defected K GB officer who worked

457
00:22:35,940 --> 00:22:39,180
on ideological subversion and 
trying to destroy the United 

458
00:22:39,180 --> 00:22:41,060
States at the behest of the 
Soviet Union. 

459
00:22:41,930 --> 00:22:45,610
And what he spoke about was the 
way that they would use kind of 

460
00:22:45,610 --> 00:22:50,850
progressive leftist push, you 
know, a push in that direction 

461
00:22:50,850 --> 00:22:55,330
to actually incite the right 
wing into violence and overthrow

462
00:22:55,330 --> 00:22:57,850
the government, which would 
destabilize the entire country. 

463
00:22:57,850 --> 00:23:00,250
And the USSR wins. 
And I think we're still dealing 

464
00:23:00,250 --> 00:23:02,490
with that. 
So you have a lot of people who 

465
00:23:02,490 --> 00:23:06,330
are behaving in ways that are 
against their own best 

466
00:23:06,330 --> 00:23:07,770
interests, and they don't even 
know it. 

467
00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:10,360
And that's, and that's what's 
really sad is we're seeing that 

468
00:23:10,360 --> 00:23:13,840
last stage of the ideological 
subversion campaign. 

469
00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:16,960
Can you give an example of 
people acting against their 

470
00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:18,720
their interests? 
January 6th. 

471
00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:21,880
OK, great example. 
Yeah, let's, let's talk about 

472
00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:23,160
that. 
So you're there on the ground. 

473
00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:26,560
How did people act against their
best interest in on that day? 

474
00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:30,720
Well, I think a lot of people 
went there, especially later, 

475
00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:34,000
just to make their voices heard.
Didn't understand, and they got 

476
00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:36,400
sucked into something that was 
much bigger than them. 

477
00:23:37,410 --> 00:23:40,210
You know, I've kind of, you 
know, I know that there's 

478
00:23:40,210 --> 00:23:41,330
different things that have come 
out. 

479
00:23:41,330 --> 00:23:43,010
You know, obviously a lot of the
work that I've done with 

480
00:23:43,010 --> 00:23:47,330
Condemned USA and and just in 
the overall investigation, you 

481
00:23:47,330 --> 00:23:50,090
know, knowing that there were 
people from DHS there, there 

482
00:23:50,090 --> 00:23:52,290
were other undercovers there. 
But you know, from my 

483
00:23:52,290 --> 00:23:55,330
perspective from what I see 
right now, I'm not seeing 

484
00:23:55,330 --> 00:23:58,770
entrapment. 
What I'm seeing is flocking 

485
00:23:58,770 --> 00:24:01,650
behavior. 
In human beings where you know 

486
00:24:01,650 --> 00:24:04,850
you could call that mob 
mentality or anything else like 

487
00:24:04,850 --> 00:24:07,490
that where they just get sucked 
into the emotion of the moment 

488
00:24:08,210 --> 00:24:11,170
and and they behave in ways that
are outside of their character. 

489
00:24:11,810 --> 00:24:13,370
And that was not in their best 
interest. 

490
00:24:13,370 --> 00:24:15,770
Because in the end it's like I 
said even in my allocution 

491
00:24:15,770 --> 00:24:21,330
statement to my judge in my case
I said I said that that you 

492
00:24:21,330 --> 00:24:25,690
know, people did not behave. 
That's just a fact and that 

493
00:24:25,690 --> 00:24:29,330
doesn't excuse all of the other 
bad actors or bad policing that 

494
00:24:29,330 --> 00:24:31,820
we saw. 
You know, DC Metro has a long, 

495
00:24:31,820 --> 00:24:36,420
long history of really 
unacceptable behavior. 

496
00:24:38,100 --> 00:24:44,340
But but it shut down any 
legitimate investigation of the 

497
00:24:44,340 --> 00:24:46,100
vote. 
And so I think that that was a 

498
00:24:46,100 --> 00:24:47,780
huge problem. 
And that's what I and then 

499
00:24:47,780 --> 00:24:48,980
again, that's what I told my 
judge. 

500
00:24:48,980 --> 00:24:50,540
I said I didn't benefit from 
that. 

501
00:24:50,780 --> 00:24:52,940
So if you're looking for 
somebody who wanted that to 

502
00:24:52,940 --> 00:24:56,340
happen, it wasn't me. 
You know, I I didn't want that 

503
00:24:56,340 --> 00:24:58,330
to happen. 
And people can believe it or 

504
00:24:58,330 --> 00:25:00,730
not, but, you know, I wouldn't 
even have gone into the building

505
00:25:00,730 --> 00:25:01,970
if I wasn't there as a 
journalist. 

506
00:25:01,970 --> 00:25:04,010
If I had been there with my 
family, I would have said this 

507
00:25:04,010 --> 00:25:06,490
is a mess and we need to leave, 
you know. 

508
00:25:06,490 --> 00:25:09,450
But after covering all this 
stuff for months, again, I'm not

509
00:25:09,450 --> 00:25:12,850
scared of tear gas, you know, 
I'm not scared of pepper spray. 

510
00:25:12,850 --> 00:25:16,410
You just, I'm gonna go. 
On record, I I I am scared of 

511
00:25:16,410 --> 00:25:18,370
tear gas. 
It's my least favorite thing it 

512
00:25:18,370 --> 00:25:19,490
makes. 
Me look like a mess. 

513
00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:22,280
No. 
It's it's no, it's it's it's not

514
00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:24,320
fun. 
But you know, and and for me, 

515
00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:26,600
it, it wasn't a fun day. 
It never was. 

516
00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:29,960
I mean, I've often remarked 
after leaving that, you know, 

517
00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:32,800
when when everybody was getting 
crushed inside of the Rotunda, 

518
00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:35,600
when police were shoving them 
out, you know, I looked up at 

519
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:38,320
the eye and I was like, this 
might be the last thing I ever 

520
00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:39,760
see. 
Now people may think that that's

521
00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:43,800
kind of like extreme or you 
know, dramatic. 

522
00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:47,200
Maybe it was, but in the moment,
you know, I'm looking at the 

523
00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:48,720
situation. 
People are getting crushed. 

524
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:52,560
You have cops and protesters 
begging each other to make some 

525
00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:54,080
room. 
There was a woman that had 

526
00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:56,960
gotten thrown to the ground, and
I was trying to help push people

527
00:25:56,960 --> 00:25:58,800
away from her to make room for 
her. 

528
00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:01,960
You know, there was a there was 
a lot of ways for people to die 

529
00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:03,640
that day. 
And, you know, to this day, I'm 

530
00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:06,720
just thankful that it that the 
death toll wasn't more than what

531
00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:10,990
it ended up. 
So Steve Baker, who we discussed

532
00:26:10,990 --> 00:26:15,550
kind of off camera, he goes by 
the pragmatic constitutionalist 

533
00:26:15,630 --> 00:26:17,470
or the used to be the pragmatic 
libertarian. 

534
00:26:18,270 --> 00:26:22,750
And Steve Baker calls it the 
greatest political messaging 

535
00:26:22,750 --> 00:26:25,950
victory in history, something to
that effect. 

536
00:26:26,830 --> 00:26:28,950
What do you make of that? 
And if you were to zoom out to 

537
00:26:28,950 --> 00:26:32,190
the 30,000 foot view and look at
January 6th, what do you see as 

538
00:26:32,190 --> 00:26:35,710
the sort of the big pieces that 
were moving, taken away from the

539
00:26:35,710 --> 00:26:39,060
individual stories? 
Well, I think the big pieces 

540
00:26:39,060 --> 00:26:41,460
that we're moving is that I 
would often call the, you know, 

541
00:26:41,460 --> 00:26:45,500
Reichstag 2.0. 
The Democrat Party used it to 

542
00:26:45,500 --> 00:26:48,020
demonize their political 
opponents 100%. 

543
00:26:48,620 --> 00:26:51,300
When we reach a time in this 
country where they felt that it 

544
00:26:51,300 --> 00:26:54,740
was necessary to spend time and 
resources from the Department of

545
00:26:54,740 --> 00:26:58,300
Justice to come after me when 
migrate crime there, which 

546
00:26:58,300 --> 00:27:01,180
admittedly was a breach of 
objectivity, you know, was 

547
00:27:01,180 --> 00:27:04,500
saying brothers stand with us to
a Capitol Police officer that's 

548
00:27:04,500 --> 00:27:06,880
that's what I did. 
That's what they use central to 

549
00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:10,560
my prosecution, which I, again, 
I admit, you know, when you look

550
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:12,760
at the letter of the law, sure, 
we can interpret it that way. 

551
00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:16,760
Fine, okay, I'm guilty. 
But it's just it it doesn't 

552
00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:19,760
shine brightly on freedom of 
speech. 

553
00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:22,600
And I think we've seen lots of 
other political protests 

554
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:26,160
throughout the years. 
And I think that America would 

555
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:29,360
be better served by finding ways
to be lenient in those 

556
00:27:29,360 --> 00:27:31,280
situations. 
But they can't do that. 

557
00:27:32,050 --> 00:27:34,890
And I and it doesn't do anything
to legitimize the Biden 

558
00:27:34,890 --> 00:27:37,970
administration. 
When you have people like myself

559
00:27:37,970 --> 00:27:41,010
who are convinced that the 
election was stolen and rigged 

560
00:27:42,050 --> 00:27:46,650
and and then you have people who
might not be sure, you know, 

561
00:27:46,890 --> 00:27:48,370
they might be going back and 
forth. 

562
00:27:48,730 --> 00:27:52,050
It doesn't really matter what 
happened because what you have 

563
00:27:52,050 --> 00:27:53,770
now is an illegitimate 
government. 

564
00:27:54,370 --> 00:27:59,850
Because because so many people 
don't ascribe any legitimacy to 

565
00:27:59,850 --> 00:28:02,660
it. 
So it's like Machiavelli said, 

566
00:28:03,180 --> 00:28:07,540
if, you know, it's better to be 
feared than loved, if you can't 

567
00:28:07,540 --> 00:28:10,740
do you know, have both. 
So you know, I think that's the 

568
00:28:10,740 --> 00:28:13,540
situation that the Biden 
administration is in is that 

569
00:28:13,580 --> 00:28:16,020
they have to exact a certain 
amount of fear into their 

570
00:28:16,020 --> 00:28:17,940
opposition. 
And honestly, it's having a 

571
00:28:17,940 --> 00:28:20,340
very, very good effect for the 
most part. 

572
00:28:20,380 --> 00:28:23,020
Let's be honest, you don't see 
right wing protests. 

573
00:28:23,590 --> 00:28:25,710
They're being successful at what
they've they've put out there, 

574
00:28:25,710 --> 00:28:27,830
is what you're saying. 
Yeah, yeah, I think, you know, 

575
00:28:27,830 --> 00:28:30,150
again, yeah, it has been 
successful messaging. 

576
00:28:30,150 --> 00:28:33,190
Obviously, there's plenty of 
people who are convinced that a 

577
00:28:33,310 --> 00:28:37,030
violent insurrection occurred. 
I I don't see it as that. 

578
00:28:37,190 --> 00:28:41,030
You know, it was definitely a 
riot, but it was not an 

579
00:28:41,030 --> 00:28:43,390
insurrection. 
You know, people often make the 

580
00:28:43,390 --> 00:28:44,910
joke and they say, well, where 
were the guns? 

581
00:28:44,910 --> 00:28:46,910
And I know that there were some 
weapons there that have been 

582
00:28:46,910 --> 00:28:49,110
found, you know, throughout the 
process. 

583
00:28:50,030 --> 00:28:55,230
But when when I consider kind of
the hyperbole that I hear from, 

584
00:28:55,430 --> 00:28:59,870
you know, my some of my more 
right wing friends, you know 

585
00:28:59,870 --> 00:29:02,630
that it's like, well, it's just 
hyperbole at some point. 

586
00:29:03,710 --> 00:29:08,670
And and you know, I don't know, 
I think it all just increases 

587
00:29:08,670 --> 00:29:10,670
the division. 
I think that there's people in 

588
00:29:10,670 --> 00:29:13,230
the Democratic Party who think 
that it works out well for them.

589
00:29:13,230 --> 00:29:16,950
But in the end, all I see is 
that, you know, those actions 

590
00:29:16,950 --> 00:29:20,960
further destabilize our country.
And when you say it works out 

591
00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:22,680
for them, it moves their 
political agenda. 

592
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:25,240
But it sounded like your your 
belief is that actually ends up 

593
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:28,440
being a big backswing which gets
to a fully destabilized state 

594
00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:29,840
which actually doesn't benefit 
them and they all. 

595
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:32,360
Yeah, I think we've seen that 
throughout history. 

596
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:35,760
You know, the pendulum will 
swing when it swings hard to the

597
00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:39,320
left, as it did in Weimar, 
Germany prior to Hitler's 

598
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:42,840
takeover. 
It's it's swung very hard back 

599
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:44,880
to the right. 
It went straight to traditional 

600
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:48,400
values and loading people up and
sending them to the 

601
00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:52,170
concentration camps. 
So I could see it going the 

602
00:29:52,170 --> 00:29:53,810
other way. 
Really bad. 

603
00:29:54,450 --> 00:29:57,050
People get really upset when you
start making analogies to to the

604
00:29:57,050 --> 00:30:00,050
Nazi party to what happened in 
1930s Germany. 

605
00:30:00,050 --> 00:30:03,250
And yet that seems like the the 
most logical conclusion to look 

606
00:30:03,250 --> 00:30:04,730
at what we have going on right 
now. 

607
00:30:04,890 --> 00:30:07,770
I keep, I keep making them 
because I I'm a free speech kind

608
00:30:07,770 --> 00:30:09,970
of absolutist as well. 
I'm fine with people who are 

609
00:30:09,970 --> 00:30:13,090
actual Nazis talking and and I 
would actually interview an 

610
00:30:13,090 --> 00:30:15,700
actual Nazi if that's what they.
If they if there's someone 

611
00:30:15,700 --> 00:30:17,420
that's still around from that 
Republic, or if they're a Neo 

612
00:30:17,420 --> 00:30:19,620
Nazi, I'll talk to them too, 
because I think their ideas are 

613
00:30:19,620 --> 00:30:23,380
bad and they should be exposed. 
But what do you think the 

614
00:30:23,380 --> 00:30:27,500
pushback is that is making 
people try to selfcensor from 

615
00:30:27,500 --> 00:30:31,300
discussing it in these terms? 
Well, everybody feels as though 

616
00:30:31,300 --> 00:30:34,620
they're surveilled. 
You know, we've seen the rise of

617
00:30:34,620 --> 00:30:38,740
all these secure messaging apps,
which I don't really think are 

618
00:30:38,740 --> 00:30:44,130
all that secure. 
And so people are selfcensoring.

619
00:30:44,130 --> 00:30:45,690
They don't, they don't want to 
speak out. 

620
00:30:45,690 --> 00:30:49,490
They don't want to, you know, 
tell everyone what they think. 

621
00:30:49,810 --> 00:30:53,810
We haven't seen any large 
protests, even though, you know,

622
00:30:53,810 --> 00:30:56,490
we're seeing traditional values 
continue to be eroded. 

623
00:30:57,170 --> 00:31:00,890
And and again, I'm not somebody 
who's hyperconservative by any 

624
00:31:00,890 --> 00:31:03,610
stretch of the imagination, but 
I do understand that as a 

625
00:31:03,610 --> 00:31:05,970
society, you need to have a 
certain amount of traditional 

626
00:31:05,970 --> 00:31:08,450
value in older in order to hold 
yourself together. 

627
00:31:08,730 --> 00:31:11,690
Whether people like it or not, 
the United States is an empire. 

628
00:31:12,750 --> 00:31:16,150
And and you don't have a 
declining empire work out well 

629
00:31:16,470 --> 00:31:20,350
for the peasants, so to speak. 
It just, it just never turns out

630
00:31:20,350 --> 00:31:22,950
well. 
So, you know, again, I think 

631
00:31:22,950 --> 00:31:26,830
that it's it's immensely 
important for people to use 

632
00:31:26,830 --> 00:31:29,750
their First Amendment, You know,
that's why even through 

633
00:31:29,750 --> 00:31:33,110
everything I went through, you 
know, being prosecuted, I I 

634
00:31:33,110 --> 00:31:35,990
really refused to shut up the 
entire time because that was all

635
00:31:35,990 --> 00:31:38,500
I had left. 
There was a possibility if I had

636
00:31:38,500 --> 00:31:41,180
gone to trial, convicted on all 
four charges that, you know, I 

637
00:31:41,180 --> 00:31:43,260
would go and spend at least a 
year in prison. 

638
00:31:44,260 --> 00:31:46,700
You know, so I knew that that 
was going to effectively silence

639
00:31:46,700 --> 00:31:48,060
me. 
So it was very important for me 

640
00:31:48,060 --> 00:31:50,060
to keep speaking. 
And in the end, I use the 

641
00:31:50,060 --> 00:31:54,100
allocution process and and my 
statements to the judge at 

642
00:31:54,100 --> 00:31:59,300
sentencing to bring up the fact 
that there's evidence to suggest

643
00:31:59,300 --> 00:32:00,740
that Roseanne Boylan was 
murdered. 

644
00:32:02,060 --> 00:32:04,980
You know, I think you know that 
that's how you speak truth to 

645
00:32:04,980 --> 00:32:06,260
power. 
There's a way to do it. 

646
00:32:06,990 --> 00:32:09,470
And and it has to be peaceful. 
That's I think that's what 

647
00:32:09,470 --> 00:32:11,870
people don't recognize. 
And all that is like the power 

648
00:32:11,870 --> 00:32:16,030
of what Gandhi did in India when
you talk about peaceful non 

649
00:32:16,030 --> 00:32:19,190
compliance. 
And that I think that that that 

650
00:32:19,390 --> 00:32:22,550
the right wing of America could 
learn a lot from that they could

651
00:32:22,550 --> 00:32:25,990
honestly learn a lot from the 
hippie movement in the 60s and 

652
00:32:25,990 --> 00:32:30,510
how effective that was. 
You have to be smart and you 

653
00:32:30,510 --> 00:32:35,070
have to be peaceful and you have
to be willing to be punished and

654
00:32:35,070 --> 00:32:37,750
hurt. 
And maybe even killed for saying

655
00:32:37,750 --> 00:32:39,470
the wrong thing. 
Because if you're dealing with a

656
00:32:39,470 --> 00:32:44,790
regime that has no respect for 
your inalienable right to speak,

657
00:32:45,790 --> 00:32:47,390
that's that's what you have to 
do. 

658
00:32:49,190 --> 00:32:50,390
Let's talk about that a little 
further. 

659
00:32:50,390 --> 00:32:52,230
I had another question I was 
going to bring back because you 

660
00:32:52,230 --> 00:32:54,350
mentioned about the votes and I 
want to do, I want to come back 

661
00:32:54,350 --> 00:32:57,350
to the 2020 election. 
But before we do that, let's, 

662
00:32:57,430 --> 00:32:59,390
let's continue down that path 
now. 

663
00:32:59,750 --> 00:33:02,610
Peaceable resistance. 
Martin Luther King, civil 

664
00:33:02,610 --> 00:33:05,850
rights, the heavy movement and 
what we saw, you know, Gandhi 

665
00:33:05,850 --> 00:33:07,410
doing, resisting the British 
Empire. 

666
00:33:07,690 --> 00:33:09,330
How do you see those kind of 
lessons? 

667
00:33:10,250 --> 00:33:14,810
Specifically how like what 
specific tactics would you 

668
00:33:14,810 --> 00:33:17,290
recommend to people that are 
trying to make their voice heard

669
00:33:17,290 --> 00:33:20,730
on the right? 
I think there's nothing wrong 

670
00:33:20,730 --> 00:33:23,210
with gathering in the streets, 
nothing at all. 

671
00:33:23,370 --> 00:33:27,370
I think that is, things continue
to devolve if if there is no 

672
00:33:27,370 --> 00:33:31,630
action from Congress. 
To really address any of these 

673
00:33:31,630 --> 00:33:34,070
issues and people feel as though
the elections are rigged, what 

674
00:33:34,070 --> 00:33:36,510
else do you have? 
You know, and I think that 

675
00:33:36,670 --> 00:33:40,630
Americans who really feel that 
strongly about the situation our

676
00:33:40,630 --> 00:33:43,710
country's in right now, you 
know, I often say, well, they, 

677
00:33:43,710 --> 00:33:45,590
you know, they always want to go
to the Second Amendment and they

678
00:33:45,590 --> 00:33:47,150
want to get violent. 
And, you know, that's the 

679
00:33:47,150 --> 00:33:50,590
rhetoric you hear. 
But I still contend that if 

680
00:33:50,590 --> 00:33:53,910
you're not willing to just be 
peaceful and be murdered for 

681
00:33:53,910 --> 00:33:56,870
your freedom, then maybe you're 
not that serious about it. 

682
00:33:57,490 --> 00:34:00,250
You know, Joe Biden talks about,
you know, oh, you better have 

683
00:34:00,250 --> 00:34:04,090
some F sixteens and people will 
joke about all they want. 

684
00:34:04,330 --> 00:34:07,330
But, you know, I have a lot of 
friends in the military and the 

685
00:34:07,330 --> 00:34:10,330
general consensus is that if the
military is ordered to go after 

686
00:34:10,330 --> 00:34:12,370
American citizens, they're 
probably going to do it. 

687
00:34:15,409 --> 00:34:17,690
You know, that's that's you've 
got to understand the 

688
00:34:17,690 --> 00:34:19,489
battlefield that you're playing 
on. 

689
00:34:19,770 --> 00:34:24,090
You know, this is simple art of 
war fundamentals where if you 

690
00:34:24,090 --> 00:34:26,610
know yourself. 
And you know, your enemy, you're

691
00:34:26,610 --> 00:34:28,290
going to be successful 100% of 
the time. 

692
00:34:28,290 --> 00:34:30,690
But if you don't know yourself 
and you don't know your enemy, 

693
00:34:30,690 --> 00:34:32,210
you're going to lose in every 
battle. 

694
00:34:32,489 --> 00:34:38,010
And right now, with the way the 
grassroots America, you know, 

695
00:34:38,010 --> 00:34:41,090
kind of MAGA America is 
approaching it, I'm not sure 

696
00:34:41,090 --> 00:34:42,969
they really understand 
themselves. 

697
00:34:43,570 --> 00:34:45,409
So it's 5050. 
In a lot of ways. 

698
00:34:45,409 --> 00:34:48,650
I think that they have a 
relatively good understanding of

699
00:34:48,650 --> 00:34:51,650
their opposition in this, you 
know, and really the opposition 

700
00:34:51,650 --> 00:34:53,800
to America. 
But until they start 

701
00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:56,120
understanding how their own 
actions will be weaponized 

702
00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:58,520
against them, I don't see much 
change. 

703
00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:01,000
Let me play a little devil's 
advocate. 

704
00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:04,160
This country, unlike many, well 
like many I guess, was founded 

705
00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:07,040
on a violent revolution. 
We had to overthrow a a British 

706
00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:09,320
crown, one of the strongest 
empires in the history of the 

707
00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:11,800
world, and was successful in 
doing so. 

708
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:14,680
Is there a lesson to be learned 
that shows that this is 

709
00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:16,840
different? 
Or that you know what? 

710
00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:20,480
Why was Why is nonviolence the 
tactic that should be most 

711
00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:23,700
successful? 
Well, I think a lot of it has to

712
00:35:23,700 --> 00:35:25,860
do with the kinds of weapons 
that we're dealing with right 

713
00:35:25,860 --> 00:35:27,260
now. 
I think it's important for 

714
00:35:27,260 --> 00:35:31,060
people to remember that whatever
they show you isn't even close 

715
00:35:31,060 --> 00:35:35,580
to what they have. 
That's just the reality. 

716
00:35:35,580 --> 00:35:37,940
I, you know, there's there's 
some very scary things out 

717
00:35:37,940 --> 00:35:39,340
there. 
We've already seen, you know, 

718
00:35:39,340 --> 00:35:42,300
bio weapons and there's a 
million different conspiracy 

719
00:35:42,300 --> 00:35:43,900
theories. 
Some are valid, some are not 

720
00:35:44,340 --> 00:35:46,700
about capability. 
I know earlier we mentioned 

721
00:35:46,700 --> 00:35:48,580
earthquake machines, you know, 
there. 

722
00:35:48,580 --> 00:35:51,420
The science is pretty solid 
behind that, theoretically so. 

723
00:35:52,220 --> 00:35:53,980
You know, I don't, I don't 
really have any doubt to that 

724
00:35:53,980 --> 00:35:56,620
effect. 
There's just a lot of ways for 

725
00:35:56,780 --> 00:36:00,500
these corporate entities that 
have really taken our government

726
00:36:00,500 --> 00:36:02,100
over to hurt us if they so 
choose. 

727
00:36:02,100 --> 00:36:06,620
We we know the ties between the 
World Economic Forum and various

728
00:36:06,620 --> 00:36:09,940
compartments of our government. 
It's it's not a good situation. 

729
00:36:09,940 --> 00:36:14,500
So when you look at it and you 
say, OK, violent revolution, I 

730
00:36:14,500 --> 00:36:17,260
think you also have to look back
to 1776. 

731
00:36:17,260 --> 00:36:20,340
You have to look back to 1773, 
you have to look back to the 

732
00:36:20,340 --> 00:36:23,050
olive branch petition. 
All of these things that 

733
00:36:23,050 --> 00:36:27,730
preceded that final Declaration 
of Independence and in the end, 

734
00:36:27,770 --> 00:36:29,970
and in the end, even the 
Declaration of Independence 

735
00:36:30,890 --> 00:36:36,170
itself was a peaceful act. 
Now you know, the King of 

736
00:36:36,170 --> 00:36:38,330
England could have at any point,
said Okay. 

737
00:36:38,530 --> 00:36:40,090
That's fine. 
I don't, I don't want any of 

738
00:36:40,090 --> 00:36:41,290
that. 
But it was setting up a 

739
00:36:41,290 --> 00:36:44,490
defensive boundary. 
It was not taking offensive 

740
00:36:44,490 --> 00:36:48,410
action necessarily, and I think 
that that's a good line for 

741
00:36:48,410 --> 00:36:54,300
people to maintain. 
Within this entire atmosphere 

742
00:36:54,300 --> 00:36:57,620
ideologically is that is that 
that's fine you set up defenses.

743
00:36:57,620 --> 00:37:01,300
I know that everybody you know 
holds the Second Amendment to be

744
00:37:01,300 --> 00:37:03,420
sacred. 
But again that goes back to you 

745
00:37:03,420 --> 00:37:05,740
know, I don't like going to the 
to the discussion of Second 

746
00:37:05,740 --> 00:37:08,580
Amendment until we fully 
exercised our first. 

747
00:37:09,260 --> 00:37:12,900
So I guess I guess that's that's
my take on that. 

748
00:37:13,350 --> 00:37:14,590
Is the. 
And then the other thing is, 

749
00:37:14,590 --> 00:37:18,190
violent revolution is very 
rarely successful at winning the

750
00:37:18,190 --> 00:37:21,190
peace afterward. 
When you look back at the scope 

751
00:37:21,190 --> 00:37:23,830
of history, the fact that the 
United States was able to kind 

752
00:37:23,830 --> 00:37:28,110
of come together and hold itself
together for so long after a 

753
00:37:28,110 --> 00:37:29,790
violent revolution, that's a 
miracle. 

754
00:37:30,470 --> 00:37:32,750
That's a miracle. 
Usually you have a revolution, 

755
00:37:32,950 --> 00:37:36,110
and then someone else comes into
the power vacuum afterwards, and

756
00:37:36,110 --> 00:37:38,150
the people who were 
revolutionaries get murdered. 

757
00:37:39,740 --> 00:37:41,420
And people forget there was a 
War of 1812. 

758
00:37:41,420 --> 00:37:43,220
It wasn't like the everything 
was established. 

759
00:37:43,220 --> 00:37:45,540
It's like, well, they just came 
back again, you know, half 

760
00:37:45,540 --> 00:37:48,260
generation later, a generation 
later decided to push again. 

761
00:37:48,420 --> 00:37:50,740
So it's not like the British 
gave up on it and many people 

762
00:37:50,740 --> 00:37:52,740
don't realize it at any moment. 
All that stuff could have 

763
00:37:52,740 --> 00:37:54,980
collapsed, obviously. 
Yeah, yeah. 

764
00:37:54,980 --> 00:37:57,980
I think, you know, there's just 
a lot of things to consider. 

765
00:37:57,980 --> 00:38:00,020
So it's like, you know, get back
to that. 

766
00:38:00,020 --> 00:38:03,340
It's just, you know, it's it's 
about being wise. 

767
00:38:03,460 --> 00:38:05,780
It's about understanding the 
battlefield that you're on. 

768
00:38:06,460 --> 00:38:07,620
You know, that's the first 
thing. 

769
00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:11,080
So you you mentioned going to 
the First Amendment before the 

770
00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:12,600
second. 
I think that's I think that's an

771
00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:15,960
interesting point. 
And then on top of that, there's

772
00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:19,480
a messaging campaign that was 
successful in 1776 and prior, 

773
00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:22,000
which was essentially 
establishing a moral high 

774
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:23,120
ground. 
I think that's what I'm hearing 

775
00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:24,880
you say. 
And it seems like the political 

776
00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:27,440
left is very good at doing that,
using the first to be able to 

777
00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:29,560
set themself up as the moral 
high ground. 

778
00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:32,560
Are you saying that the, that 
the people on the right are 

779
00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:34,480
actually failing in that manner 
in some ways? 

780
00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:36,880
Yeah, I think they are. 
I think they are. 

781
00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:41,400
You know, I, I'll mention it 
because there were a lot of J6 

782
00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:44,440
documentaries that went around. 
The one that I worked on which 

783
00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:47,000
was Bloody Hill, which was put 
out by, you know, Dave 

784
00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:49,720
Summerall, stophate.com Trina 
Sevens that I work with that 

785
00:38:49,720 --> 00:38:54,480
condemned USA and actually 107 
you know the the 1:00 we put out

786
00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:56,760
was less of a documentary and 
I've always said it's more of a 

787
00:38:56,760 --> 00:39:01,320
propaganda film and I think 
it's, I think it's important to 

788
00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:05,640
use propaganda effectively to 
win hearts and minds. 

789
00:39:06,340 --> 00:39:08,620
And I think that that's where 
the right has generally failed. 

790
00:39:08,620 --> 00:39:11,100
I mean, make you, we can sit 
back now and watch the Biden 

791
00:39:11,100 --> 00:39:14,860
administration fail. 
And I suppose you win certain 

792
00:39:14,860 --> 00:39:17,300
hearts and minds while that 
failure occurs. 

793
00:39:17,300 --> 00:39:19,020
But I think you need to be more 
proactive. 

794
00:39:19,300 --> 00:39:22,460
You need to explain people why 
traditional values are 

795
00:39:22,460 --> 00:39:24,500
important. 
You have to explain to people 

796
00:39:24,500 --> 00:39:26,980
why civil War would be really 
bad. 

797
00:39:28,260 --> 00:39:31,260
And I think that if that was 
more central to messaging, you 

798
00:39:31,260 --> 00:39:34,100
know, maybe more. 
Coming together and 

799
00:39:34,100 --> 00:39:36,540
understanding that America is a 
melting pot of a lot of 

800
00:39:36,540 --> 00:39:39,580
different ideologies and 
cultures and backgrounds, You 

801
00:39:39,580 --> 00:39:41,980
know, I think that's our 
strength as a country, as a 

802
00:39:41,980 --> 00:39:44,660
Republic. 
And so that's, you know, if I 

803
00:39:44,660 --> 00:39:47,220
have my other hearts and mind, 
you know, we should lean into. 

804
00:39:47,220 --> 00:39:50,460
And I honestly, you know, that's
definitely the spin I try to put

805
00:39:50,460 --> 00:39:52,100
on just about every story I put 
up. 

806
00:39:53,260 --> 00:39:55,420
All right. 
Let's do 2020 a little bit. 

807
00:39:55,420 --> 00:39:58,900
Let's talk about why you believe
and you feel very confident. 

808
00:39:58,900 --> 00:40:00,260
You said there's some people 
that are on the fence. 

809
00:40:00,260 --> 00:40:02,180
There's some people that are 
that are convinced. 

810
00:40:02,550 --> 00:40:05,270
Why are you in the convinced 
category that's 20/20 was not a 

811
00:40:05,270 --> 00:40:09,030
fair, legitimate election? 
Well, you know, I've seen a 

812
00:40:09,030 --> 00:40:11,430
certain amount of the analysis 
that was done by people like 

813
00:40:11,830 --> 00:40:14,190
Dave Clements and a lot of those
people in that group. 

814
00:40:15,710 --> 00:40:20,230
As it's mentioned, I have many, 
many good friends at high levels

815
00:40:20,230 --> 00:40:24,230
in the intelligence community 
and that's their opinion based 

816
00:40:24,230 --> 00:40:27,110
off things I've. 
I've heard stories that would 

817
00:40:27,110 --> 00:40:31,710
blow people's minds that I won't
get into, but I think that 

818
00:40:31,710 --> 00:40:33,590
there's. 
There's problems there. 

819
00:40:34,550 --> 00:40:37,910
And and honestly, again, whether
or not, you know, this is kind 

820
00:40:37,910 --> 00:40:41,230
of where I get to it because it 
doesn't matter if it was really 

821
00:40:41,230 --> 00:40:42,670
stolen. 
People think it was stolen. 

822
00:40:43,670 --> 00:40:45,910
So that's a psychological 
problem that's going to have to 

823
00:40:45,910 --> 00:40:47,110
be addressed one way or the 
other. 

824
00:40:47,630 --> 00:40:50,270
And if the Democrats aren't 
interested in addressing that, 

825
00:40:50,710 --> 00:40:53,830
and if establishment Republicans
aren't interested in addressing 

826
00:40:53,830 --> 00:40:57,790
that, you know, you kind of go, 
well, why is that? 

827
00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:00,880
You know, elections have been 
rigged as far back as anybody 

828
00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:02,880
can remember. 
I mean, to me that this wasn't 

829
00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:06,080
the first time, you know, 
perhaps it was, you know, more 

830
00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:09,080
egregious than other others in 
history. 

831
00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:12,600
But you know, it it certainly 
wasn't the first time they used 

832
00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:14,600
to do it with paper ballots. 
And honestly, I think that had a

833
00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:17,200
lot to do with why we moved away
from paper ballots. 

834
00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:22,600
It's my opinion that Al Gore won
the 2000 election, you know, So,

835
00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:26,240
you know, I just think it's a 
continuation and the and the 

836
00:41:26,240 --> 00:41:29,250
problem is, is that it just. 
Further destabilizes. 

837
00:41:29,250 --> 00:41:32,890
It delegitimizes our government 
and destabilizes our country. 

838
00:41:32,970 --> 00:41:35,410
So that's why it has to be 
addressed one way or the other. 

839
00:41:35,530 --> 00:41:39,810
And when I see people who don't 
want to address it, I I I tend 

840
00:41:39,850 --> 00:41:43,210
to wonder if they're in on it or
if they're benefiting from it in

841
00:41:43,210 --> 00:41:45,330
some way. 
I guess that was my next 

842
00:41:45,330 --> 00:41:47,250
question. 
We noticed that the Republicans 

843
00:41:47,250 --> 00:41:49,490
are not really addressing the 
January 6th problems. 

844
00:41:49,690 --> 00:41:52,370
They're not going out there and 
and campaigning on it. 

845
00:41:53,110 --> 00:41:54,310
Why do you think they? 
Why do you? 

846
00:41:54,550 --> 00:41:56,430
Why do you attribute that as a 
political loser for them? 

847
00:41:56,430 --> 00:41:58,270
Because it seems to be the way 
they're they're treating it. 

848
00:41:58,990 --> 00:42:01,510
Well, I think their attitude is 
it's a political loser because 

849
00:42:01,510 --> 00:42:04,150
in some ways it is. 
In some ways it is. 

850
00:42:05,070 --> 00:42:08,030
A lot of people that I've spoken
to outside of the January 6th 

851
00:42:08,030 --> 00:42:10,110
kind of circle of influence. 
You know, people within that 

852
00:42:10,110 --> 00:42:12,670
circle think it's a very 
important story, and I think it 

853
00:42:12,670 --> 00:42:14,470
is. 
It's hard to communicate to 

854
00:42:14,470 --> 00:42:16,190
people how important it is 
sometimes. 

855
00:42:17,790 --> 00:42:20,470
But you know, Republicans are 
going to continue to stray away 

856
00:42:20,470 --> 00:42:24,000
from that as much as possible. 
You know, I think that we see a 

857
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:27,400
certain hawkish attitude from 
certain members of Congress and 

858
00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:30,600
leadership in the Republican 
Party that are very happy to 

859
00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:35,360
continue leading us into World 
War 3IN Ukraine, You know, so 

860
00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:37,200
that's that's on the top of 
their agenda. 

861
00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:39,320
And then the other thing is a 
lot of people are just paid off.

862
00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:42,560
That's that's the reality. 
A lot of people are paid off. 

863
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:45,200
You know, when we look at 
everything that happened, you 

864
00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:49,120
know, Sam Bateman free the FTX 
scandal, you know, where we had.

865
00:42:49,550 --> 00:42:52,110
Funds going over to Ukraine and 
then kind of working their way 

866
00:42:52,110 --> 00:42:55,350
right back and and you watch, 
you know, money get dumped into 

867
00:42:55,350 --> 00:42:57,070
the pockets of McCarthy and 
others. 

868
00:42:57,870 --> 00:42:59,510
You know, you go, well, what's 
going on there? 

869
00:42:59,510 --> 00:43:02,950
Can you prove anything based off
of those circumstances that you 

870
00:43:02,950 --> 00:43:06,870
know, you know is, you know, 
definitive? 

871
00:43:07,590 --> 00:43:10,310
No, not really. 
You probably could if you 

872
00:43:10,310 --> 00:43:13,750
investigated it with subpoena 
power but. 

873
00:43:14,510 --> 00:43:17,390
We're not. 
Seeing that, yeah, yeah. 

874
00:43:18,510 --> 00:43:21,670
So you touched earlier on 
Roseanne Boylan, you want to 

875
00:43:22,230 --> 00:43:23,630
kind of flesh out your your take
on that. 

876
00:43:23,630 --> 00:43:25,590
I know you wrote a piece about 
it, so let's maybe talk about 

877
00:43:25,590 --> 00:43:28,390
that. 
Yeah, I know Tommy Tatum. 

878
00:43:28,390 --> 00:43:32,590
He's he's a guy who was there 
that day at the tunnel. 

879
00:43:33,590 --> 00:43:35,830
He's been very outspoken from 
the get go. 

880
00:43:35,830 --> 00:43:37,310
Do you mind setting the scene 
too for people? 

881
00:43:37,310 --> 00:43:41,230
Kind of visual, you know, top 
down, where are we at in the in 

882
00:43:41,230 --> 00:43:43,310
the protest, where we at in the 
timeline so people can really 

883
00:43:43,310 --> 00:43:44,670
understand this? 
Because I think a lot of people 

884
00:43:44,670 --> 00:43:46,370
don't. 
Yeah, I'm trying to remember the

885
00:43:46,370 --> 00:43:49,530
exact timeline and I wasn't in 
that specific area, but it was 

886
00:43:49,530 --> 00:43:52,650
after, you know, there there had
been crowd control, munitions 

887
00:43:52,650 --> 00:43:55,970
getting fired into the crowd and
the crowd was very agitated and 

888
00:43:55,970 --> 00:43:58,530
people were trying to get into 
the building, trying to get into

889
00:43:58,530 --> 00:44:00,570
the tunnel. 
There were confrontations with 

890
00:44:00,570 --> 00:44:04,730
police going back and forth 
between protesters and or 

891
00:44:04,730 --> 00:44:09,690
rioters and and others. 
And so it was, it was, it was a 

892
00:44:09,690 --> 00:44:14,330
horrible situation, really, 
really dangerous situation and 

893
00:44:14,330 --> 00:44:17,900
you know. 
It seems after looking at video 

894
00:44:17,900 --> 00:44:21,300
listening to those that were 
there, you know that at some 

895
00:44:21,300 --> 00:44:26,940
point you know Roseanne passed 
out and you know she was in 

896
00:44:26,940 --> 00:44:30,500
danger. 
And you know the the prevailing 

897
00:44:30,500 --> 00:44:32,900
narrative or attitude is you 
know they even said she 

898
00:44:32,900 --> 00:44:35,980
overdosed on methamphetamine 
which you know wasn't true. 

899
00:44:36,860 --> 00:44:40,660
You know that came out in the 
autopsy and and you know then 

900
00:44:40,660 --> 00:44:44,380
then you know you have Lila 
Morris on video just. 

901
00:44:44,730 --> 00:44:48,130
You know, beating her. 
Now is Lila Morris. 

902
00:44:48,330 --> 00:44:51,570
Lila Morris is a Metro Police 
officer, DC Metro Police 

903
00:44:51,570 --> 00:44:53,850
Officer. 
They they honored her after 

904
00:44:53,850 --> 00:44:56,490
January 6th as one of the heroes
along with Fanone. 

905
00:44:57,650 --> 00:45:01,370
And you know, that's, you know, 
I didn't see heroic action there

906
00:45:01,930 --> 00:45:05,090
to be really honest. 
Whether or not it was her 

907
00:45:05,090 --> 00:45:09,210
beating of Roseanne that led to 
her death, we will never know 

908
00:45:10,130 --> 00:45:12,210
because Roseanne's body has been
cremated. 

909
00:45:13,010 --> 00:45:14,870
Was that the family's choice? 
Nope. 

910
00:45:16,390 --> 00:45:18,870
Who made that decision? 
That was that decision was made 

911
00:45:18,870 --> 00:45:23,510
by DC interesting. 
So, so that was and that was 

912
00:45:23,510 --> 00:45:25,950
really all of the bodies from 
the day, you know, they were all

913
00:45:25,950 --> 00:45:28,110
cremated. 
You know they they wanted to 

914
00:45:28,110 --> 00:45:32,270
conduct a real quick look at it,
kind of a cursory examination so

915
00:45:32,270 --> 00:45:33,910
that they could release 
something to the public and then

916
00:45:33,910 --> 00:45:36,590
move on from it. 
You know it's it's egregious. 

917
00:45:36,590 --> 00:45:41,030
There should have been more 
investigation into it and and 

918
00:45:41,030 --> 00:45:43,830
frankly without the body, I'm 
sure you would know from. 

919
00:45:44,380 --> 00:45:48,620
Your work, it's very difficult. 
So, you know, that's that's 

920
00:45:48,620 --> 00:45:50,940
where we're at. 
You know, Tommy Tatum was in 

921
00:45:50,940 --> 00:45:54,500
court that day and I'm trying to
even, you know, gosh, I I write 

922
00:45:54,500 --> 00:45:57,140
too much. 
But, you know, that was kind of 

923
00:45:57,140 --> 00:45:59,860
the central thing was that he 
get up, he got up during that 

924
00:46:00,340 --> 00:46:02,940
hearing and he said I saw her, I
saw her murdered. 

925
00:46:03,340 --> 00:46:06,580
Now that's under oath. 
So people can take that for 

926
00:46:06,580 --> 00:46:08,260
whatever it's worth. 
I think you would even agree 

927
00:46:08,260 --> 00:46:11,900
that eyewitness testimony is 
often times quite unreliable. 

928
00:46:12,340 --> 00:46:16,290
But I think I think that it. 
It just kind of paints a more 

929
00:46:16,290 --> 00:46:19,770
nuanced picture and I think if 
the media was being honest, they

930
00:46:19,770 --> 00:46:22,770
would be more inclined to look 
at that nuance and. 

931
00:46:23,930 --> 00:46:25,970
We're not seeing that. 
We don't see a media that seems 

932
00:46:25,970 --> 00:46:29,250
particularly interested in 
anything other than sort of 

933
00:46:29,250 --> 00:46:31,530
parroting talking points. 
I I see that from my position. 

934
00:46:31,770 --> 00:46:35,810
Would it surprise you to know 
that when I was working in DC, 

935
00:46:36,330 --> 00:46:39,330
none of my friends had a 
reliable contact that they 

936
00:46:39,330 --> 00:46:43,130
thought was both honest and 
reputable at DC Metro? 

937
00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:46,200
None of. 
Them wouldn't surprise me at 

938
00:46:46,200 --> 00:46:47,520
all. 
It wouldn't surprise me at all. 

939
00:46:47,520 --> 00:46:50,920
We put out an article at 
Condemned U sa.org that talked 

940
00:46:50,920 --> 00:46:54,800
about the legacy of brutality 
when it comes to DC Metro. 

941
00:46:54,800 --> 00:46:56,880
Very corrupt. 
Very corrupt. 

942
00:46:58,040 --> 00:47:01,440
Going all the way up to 
Yogananda Pittman, who was the 

943
00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:03,240
chief of intelligence it seems. 
I know. 

944
00:47:03,240 --> 00:47:06,400
You know, I Yeah, well that. 
Yeah. 

945
00:47:06,400 --> 00:47:07,560
Well, yeah. 
Capitol Police. 

946
00:47:07,800 --> 00:47:12,440
Sorry, that's my bad. 
But I I kind of fast forwarded 

947
00:47:12,440 --> 00:47:13,950
in my mind. 
I understand. 

948
00:47:14,310 --> 00:47:17,710
But yeah, I mean, obviously they
work together all the time, all,

949
00:47:17,830 --> 00:47:19,910
all protests that take place 
around the Capitol, which are, 

950
00:47:20,350 --> 00:47:22,790
you know, we generally speaking.
Yeah, I think something that's 

951
00:47:22,790 --> 00:47:25,390
interesting that actually a 
friend of mine pointed out to 

952
00:47:25,390 --> 00:47:27,070
me, and I can't remember his 
first name. 

953
00:47:27,070 --> 00:47:32,390
But Officer Tao, a lot of people
have said that he was the DC 

954
00:47:32,390 --> 00:47:36,830
Metro officer that made the 
decision to start firing less 

955
00:47:36,830 --> 00:47:40,070
than lethal munitions into the 
crowd on January 6th. 

956
00:47:40,070 --> 00:47:42,230
And there was a really 
interesting. 

957
00:47:42,770 --> 00:47:44,890
I wouldn't call it an 
altercation, but definitely a 

958
00:47:44,890 --> 00:47:51,170
tense interaction between he and
a a kind of, you know, prominent

959
00:47:51,410 --> 00:47:54,210
member of Proud Boys out of 
Portland on December 12th. 

960
00:47:54,210 --> 00:47:57,370
And that's what a lot of people 
don't see in the entire scope of

961
00:47:57,370 --> 00:48:00,650
things either, is that it was an
increasingly tense situation 

962
00:48:00,650 --> 00:48:04,810
between the police and between, 
you know, right wing protesters,

963
00:48:04,810 --> 00:48:07,650
including Proud Boys who've been
there demonstrating, dealing 

964
00:48:07,650 --> 00:48:11,570
with violence against, you know,
Magga supporters for for months 

965
00:48:11,770 --> 00:48:14,310
on end. 
And no real response from the 

966
00:48:14,310 --> 00:48:16,950
police. 
So it was kind of it was it was 

967
00:48:16,950 --> 00:48:18,950
primed and ready to blow on 
January 6th. 

968
00:48:18,950 --> 00:48:20,470
And that's that's really what 
happened. 

969
00:48:20,910 --> 00:48:23,110
You know, again the the things 
that happened at the tunnel are 

970
00:48:23,110 --> 00:48:25,790
egregious, you know, from a lot 
of different perspectives. 

971
00:48:25,790 --> 00:48:28,070
You know there were a lot of bad
actors on both sides in my 

972
00:48:28,070 --> 00:48:30,310
opinion. 
And that's not that's not what 

973
00:48:30,310 --> 00:48:32,710
we would like to see in this 
country. 

974
00:48:32,710 --> 00:48:36,030
We would like to see, you know, 
peaceful redress of grievances, 

975
00:48:38,310 --> 00:48:40,990
but that doesn't that doesn't 
absolve. 

976
00:48:41,760 --> 00:48:45,480
Bad actors from the from the 
police, from responsibility. 

977
00:48:46,120 --> 00:48:48,520
Especially now when we're, we're
talking about, you know, just 

978
00:48:48,520 --> 00:48:51,440
destroying so many people's 
lives over misdemeanor crimes, 

979
00:48:51,480 --> 00:48:54,720
which is, you know, even even 
the special agent that handled 

980
00:48:54,720 --> 00:48:57,680
my case, you know, he told me. 
He said this is a giant waste of

981
00:48:57,680 --> 00:49:00,200
time and money. 
That's interesting that they 

982
00:49:00,200 --> 00:49:01,560
acknowledge. 
Where was that agent out of? 

983
00:49:02,400 --> 00:49:05,520
He was out of Farmington. 
Oh yeah, yeah. 

984
00:49:05,560 --> 00:49:07,480
I released the video. 
By the way. 

985
00:49:08,100 --> 00:49:10,260
Oh, well, see. 
So Albuquerque is the is the 

986
00:49:10,260 --> 00:49:12,940
field office, Farmington is the 
satellite office of the resident

987
00:49:12,940 --> 00:49:16,220
agency. 
And you don't have to tell me 

988
00:49:16,220 --> 00:49:18,100
what we'll talk offline about 
the the name of the agent 

989
00:49:18,100 --> 00:49:20,500
because there's some decent, 
really decent human beings out 

990
00:49:20,500 --> 00:49:22,500
there that I've dealt with. 
I was like I said I was looking 

991
00:49:22,500 --> 00:49:23,700
at going out there at some 
point. 

992
00:49:24,020 --> 00:49:27,860
So I I kind of dug into him and 
the supervisor was 100, he 

993
00:49:27,860 --> 00:49:30,180
retired sort of in protest. 
He planned on being on there 

994
00:49:30,180 --> 00:49:33,500
longer and you may know that he 
may end up being a sheriff out 

995
00:49:33,500 --> 00:49:36,100
there at some point around some 
family members of yours. 

996
00:49:36,770 --> 00:49:39,490
Yeah, yeah, they were. 
You know, that's something I'm 

997
00:49:39,490 --> 00:49:43,770
always I I always like to 
mention in this, a lot of people

998
00:49:43,770 --> 00:49:46,170
have their homes raided, their 
doors broken down, the whole 9 

999
00:49:46,170 --> 00:49:48,130
yards. 
And the special agent who was 

1000
00:49:48,130 --> 00:49:51,130
handling my particular case, 
I'll always be thankful for him 

1001
00:49:51,130 --> 00:49:54,090
for really kind of taking a 
stand for me in that situation 

1002
00:49:55,170 --> 00:49:58,890
where when the order came down 
from the Department of Justice 

1003
00:49:58,890 --> 00:50:00,850
that I was going to be arrested.
They did tell him. 

1004
00:50:00,850 --> 00:50:03,410
They they told him that they 
wanted him to do the whole shock

1005
00:50:03,410 --> 00:50:05,290
and awe, Michael Sherwin 
garbage. 

1006
00:50:06,320 --> 00:50:09,040
And and he just told them no. 
He said Sean will turn himself 

1007
00:50:09,040 --> 00:50:10,560
in. 
I'm not going to do that to him.

1008
00:50:10,560 --> 00:50:12,760
So he gave me a call and I 
turned myself in. 

1009
00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:14,920
And it was, you know, it was 
peaceful. 

1010
00:50:14,920 --> 00:50:19,880
He took me down to the the 
prison there in Grants, NM and 

1011
00:50:19,880 --> 00:50:23,720
you know, I I got processed and 
I was out, you know, And so that

1012
00:50:23,720 --> 00:50:26,200
all went off without a hitch. 
And it wouldn't have happened 

1013
00:50:26,200 --> 00:50:30,280
that way if it hadn't been for 
his wisdom in the situation. 

1014
00:50:31,040 --> 00:50:33,440
Let's talk about people taking a
stand on that, knowing that the 

1015
00:50:33,440 --> 00:50:35,960
system does a certain thing. 
But. 

1016
00:50:36,250 --> 00:50:40,050
You can be compliant and do what
you're told from DC or you can 

1017
00:50:40,050 --> 00:50:42,370
do what I would say is the right
thing and and allow you to 

1018
00:50:42,370 --> 00:50:44,490
surrender. 
We're not seeing that happen all

1019
00:50:44,490 --> 00:50:46,010
over the place. 
What do you attribute that to in

1020
00:50:46,010 --> 00:50:47,050
the in the agent that you dealt 
with? 

1021
00:50:49,450 --> 00:50:52,250
Well, you know, again, you know,
I had done satire in the area 

1022
00:50:52,250 --> 00:50:54,610
for years. 
Some of that satire had already 

1023
00:50:54,610 --> 00:50:56,570
made certain politicians very 
angry. 

1024
00:50:57,210 --> 00:50:59,650
So, you know, it was, it's my 
understanding that I had been 

1025
00:50:59,650 --> 00:51:02,410
investigated a couple of times, 
you know, as being the anonymous

1026
00:51:02,410 --> 00:51:04,410
owner of this satirical news 
site. 

1027
00:51:05,200 --> 00:51:07,480
So I think that there was a 
certain amount of, you know, 

1028
00:51:07,480 --> 00:51:10,760
they knew me and even in that 
community there was a fair 

1029
00:51:10,760 --> 00:51:14,480
amount of love for me. 
So it would have been really, 

1030
00:51:14,480 --> 00:51:17,200
really bad within the community 
for them to do that. 

1031
00:51:18,120 --> 00:51:20,840
You know, I obviously had the 
ability to project a certain 

1032
00:51:20,840 --> 00:51:23,040
amount of that, you know, maybe 
not as much as some, but 

1033
00:51:23,040 --> 00:51:25,720
locally, yeah, it would have 
been projected and everybody 

1034
00:51:25,720 --> 00:51:28,080
would have seen it and they 
would have had to deal with 

1035
00:51:28,080 --> 00:51:31,000
blowback because of that. 
So even if he wasn't, you know, 

1036
00:51:31,000 --> 00:51:33,200
100% on board, I think that that
was wise. 

1037
00:51:33,550 --> 00:51:37,870
In that particular situation, 
but I, you know, honestly, you 

1038
00:51:37,870 --> 00:51:41,870
know, my dealings with the FBI 
there locally, they were as 

1039
00:51:41,870 --> 00:51:45,430
positive as they could be. 
They were respectful the entire 

1040
00:51:45,430 --> 00:51:46,870
time. 
And again, I was honest. 

1041
00:51:46,910 --> 00:51:49,750
I never ran away from the fact 
that I was there. 

1042
00:51:50,670 --> 00:51:53,590
You know, I gave a very early 
interview to them, told them 

1043
00:51:53,590 --> 00:51:56,630
everything that I saw what I 
knew whole 9 yards. 

1044
00:51:57,510 --> 00:52:00,750
Because even at that time I knew
that there was squirrely things 

1045
00:52:00,750 --> 00:52:05,610
that needed to be investigated. 
So again, that's, you know, 

1046
00:52:05,610 --> 00:52:11,290
that's what it is. 
I I think in some ways, you 

1047
00:52:11,290 --> 00:52:13,770
know, there's probably some 
people that you don't have a 

1048
00:52:13,770 --> 00:52:15,850
choice, if I'm being very, very 
honest. 

1049
00:52:17,570 --> 00:52:22,450
But most of those are not going 
to be misdemeanors and you know,

1050
00:52:22,530 --> 00:52:24,210
but but again that brings us 
back to the whole thing. 

1051
00:52:24,210 --> 00:52:26,650
Gosh, you know, why are we even 
going after people for 

1052
00:52:26,650 --> 00:52:28,850
misdemeanors? 
I think that that has made going

1053
00:52:28,850 --> 00:52:32,310
after some of the more violent. 
Actions that occurred on that 

1054
00:52:32,310 --> 00:52:37,390
day that much more difficult. 
So you know, I I I as usual on 

1055
00:52:37,390 --> 00:52:40,670
most subjects I can have one of 
17 different minds. 

1056
00:52:41,790 --> 00:52:44,550
That makes sense. 
And and when you say it makes it

1057
00:52:44,550 --> 00:52:46,510
more difficult to go after those
who are violent, you're saying 

1058
00:52:46,510 --> 00:52:48,950
it legitimizes the entire 
process from your view. 

1059
00:52:49,390 --> 00:52:51,550
Sure, sure. 
I mean, I think that there's a, 

1060
00:52:51,870 --> 00:52:54,790
there's narratives on both sides
of the political spectrum that 

1061
00:52:54,790 --> 00:52:57,910
have taken over and I don't 
think either one of them are 

1062
00:52:57,910 --> 00:53:02,650
particularly accurate, so. 
If if they had been more 

1063
00:53:02,650 --> 00:53:05,650
reasonable and pragmatic with 
going after people who did 

1064
00:53:05,650 --> 00:53:08,210
engage in violence with police, 
than those cases would have 

1065
00:53:08,210 --> 00:53:11,610
gotten more attention. 
There wouldn't have been, as you

1066
00:53:11,610 --> 00:53:15,290
know, this kind of shift away 
from other matters that are very

1067
00:53:15,290 --> 00:53:19,290
concerning, you know. 
So I again, it just comes down 

1068
00:53:19,290 --> 00:53:22,650
to, you know, really poor 
allocation of resources. 

1069
00:53:23,650 --> 00:53:25,850
And do you think that's 
nefarious or something else? 

1070
00:53:27,930 --> 00:53:30,690
Well, you know, you could 
probably speak to this as well 

1071
00:53:30,690 --> 00:53:32,290
as anybody. 
When it comes to the government,

1072
00:53:32,290 --> 00:53:34,970
it's hard to figure out what's 
planned and you know what's 

1073
00:53:34,970 --> 00:53:39,410
incompetence, you know, So it's,
you know, there's a lot of money

1074
00:53:39,410 --> 00:53:41,450
involved, there's politics 
involved. 

1075
00:53:42,090 --> 00:53:45,610
Sure, there's nefarious actors 
within that, but then there's 

1076
00:53:45,610 --> 00:53:48,290
plenty of others just like on 
January 6th that didn't have 

1077
00:53:48,290 --> 00:53:51,530
nefarious intention that get 
just kind of sucked into the 

1078
00:53:51,890 --> 00:53:55,450
into the into a situation that's
a much bigger than they are so. 

1079
00:53:56,170 --> 00:53:58,290
And I think again that that 
comes down to looking at each 

1080
00:53:58,290 --> 00:54:00,810
case individually. 
You you really have to, you 

1081
00:54:00,810 --> 00:54:04,290
can't just paint the entire day 
with a broad stroke and expect 

1082
00:54:04,290 --> 00:54:06,010
there to be any truth. 
We're going to be talking about 

1083
00:54:06,010 --> 00:54:08,650
January 6th for the rest of my 
lifetime probably. 

1084
00:54:09,570 --> 00:54:12,090
And you know that's that's not 
something I'm particularly 

1085
00:54:12,090 --> 00:54:14,970
thrilled about, but that's how 
it is sometimes. 

1086
00:54:15,650 --> 00:54:17,410
When I was talking to Steve 
Baker, I mentioned I did a 

1087
00:54:17,410 --> 00:54:19,850
podcast called The American 
Rorschach Test, which is what I 

1088
00:54:19,850 --> 00:54:22,090
think January 6th is. 
How does that sit with you as a 

1089
00:54:22,090 --> 00:54:25,550
metaphor? 
Kind of elaborate on that a 

1090
00:54:25,550 --> 00:54:28,270
little bit. 
Well, the Rorschach test is the 

1091
00:54:28,270 --> 00:54:31,070
classic inkblot. 
And so people put a spot of 

1092
00:54:31,070 --> 00:54:33,550
eight down, they fold over the 
paper, it shows you some sort of

1093
00:54:33,790 --> 00:54:37,470
some sort of image, and then 
they do psychological profiles 

1094
00:54:37,470 --> 00:54:40,230
based on what people see in it. 
And I think there's something 

1095
00:54:40,230 --> 00:54:42,870
there about January 6th. 
Yeah, I think that's accurate. 

1096
00:54:42,910 --> 00:54:45,470
Yeah, that's that's probably a 
very good way to look at it. 

1097
00:54:45,830 --> 00:54:48,070
You know, I know that, you know,
there's been a lot of discussion

1098
00:54:48,070 --> 00:54:50,910
about whether antifa was 
involved and I've kind of pushed

1099
00:54:50,910 --> 00:54:54,990
back against that a lot. 
I never saw much to suggest that

1100
00:54:55,230 --> 00:54:58,590
yet Bobby Powell's video, he, 
you know, I've talked to Bobby a

1101
00:54:58,590 --> 00:55:03,830
lot about that and you know, we 
have a difference of opinion for

1102
00:55:03,830 --> 00:55:05,830
sure. 
I've had people send me that 

1103
00:55:05,830 --> 00:55:07,110
video. 
What do you what do you think 

1104
00:55:07,110 --> 00:55:08,870
that they think it shows? 
And what do you think that it 

1105
00:55:08,870 --> 00:55:11,510
shows from your end? 
I mean, look, if you're going to

1106
00:55:11,510 --> 00:55:13,950
speculate, it could show just 
about anything to those guys 

1107
00:55:13,950 --> 00:55:16,350
look like they could be fed boys
of some sort. 

1108
00:55:16,350 --> 00:55:20,070
I mean, sure, I I still don't 
think that you're going to see 

1109
00:55:20,070 --> 00:55:23,790
much direct. 
Evidence of that I think even 

1110
00:55:23,790 --> 00:55:27,070
when you look at, you know, DHS 
or other things like if if there

1111
00:55:27,070 --> 00:55:30,150
were and and again I have good 
sources that have told me that 

1112
00:55:30,150 --> 00:55:32,070
there were different 
intelligence operations there 

1113
00:55:32,070 --> 00:55:35,390
that day that I trust. 
And I've, I've reported on that 

1114
00:55:35,390 --> 00:55:40,070
since, you know, January 20th of
2021. 

1115
00:55:40,990 --> 00:55:43,070
But those would be 
compartmentalized and there's 

1116
00:55:43,070 --> 00:55:46,030
not going to be a paper trail. 
I mean I think people have a 

1117
00:55:46,030 --> 00:55:48,990
misunderstanding about how all 
of that works. 

1118
00:55:49,670 --> 00:55:51,150
Yes, and. 
People definitely have a 

1119
00:55:51,150 --> 00:55:53,510
misunderstanding. 
Yeah, well, it's intended to 

1120
00:55:53,510 --> 00:55:56,030
stay clandestine. 
So whatever was going on there, 

1121
00:55:56,030 --> 00:55:59,470
if there were clandestine, you 
know, activities and operations 

1122
00:55:59,470 --> 00:56:02,510
there, I mean, good luck getting
that information because without

1123
00:56:02,870 --> 00:56:05,270
the Director of National 
Intelligence signing off on 

1124
00:56:05,270 --> 00:56:08,430
declassifying that information, 
nobody's going to know about it.

1125
00:56:08,910 --> 00:56:11,350
That's how that works. 
And human intelligence, even 

1126
00:56:11,350 --> 00:56:13,110
unclassified stuff, ends up 
hidden away. 

1127
00:56:13,110 --> 00:56:16,510
Sources and methods get buried 
for 25 years or 50 years, 

1128
00:56:16,510 --> 00:56:18,840
depending on how you want to. 
Yeah. 

1129
00:56:18,840 --> 00:56:21,600
And even the DOJ right now 
because I was trying to FOIA, 

1130
00:56:22,080 --> 00:56:24,760
you know some some 
communications that apparently 

1131
00:56:24,760 --> 00:56:28,440
occurred between FBI and other 
sections of the US Attorney's 

1132
00:56:28,440 --> 00:56:31,840
office and my former attorney 
that they don't want to disclose

1133
00:56:31,840 --> 00:56:34,240
to me and that's that's pretty 
much what they say is all. 

1134
00:56:34,240 --> 00:56:37,080
Well, this is confidential. 
So that's another fight that I'm

1135
00:56:37,080 --> 00:56:38,440
going through with them right 
now. 

1136
00:56:39,080 --> 00:56:42,400
So yeah, I mean trying to peel 
back those layers of a very. 

1137
00:56:43,140 --> 00:56:46,260
Smelly Onion is is difficult and
and that goes back to 

1138
00:56:46,260 --> 00:56:47,740
leadership. 
I have often said when it comes 

1139
00:56:47,740 --> 00:56:50,620
to January 6th and all the 
abuses that we see in the 

1140
00:56:50,620 --> 00:56:52,820
aftermath, there's going to have
to be a political solution. 

1141
00:56:53,500 --> 00:56:55,980
You know, I don't have a whole 
lot of faith in the judiciary 

1142
00:56:55,980 --> 00:56:59,500
right now. 
I did a a full podcast 

1143
00:56:59,500 --> 00:57:02,500
discussing how the Nazis, after 
the right stock fire, basically 

1144
00:57:02,500 --> 00:57:06,500
delegitimize the judiciary in 
order to take on, you know, the 

1145
00:57:06,500 --> 00:57:09,500
goals that they had to implement
those nationwide. 

1146
00:57:09,740 --> 00:57:11,420
You see the same parallels with 
that. 

1147
00:57:12,150 --> 00:57:14,710
Oh yeah, I mean that's what 
that's what I come back to left 

1148
00:57:14,710 --> 00:57:16,870
wing or right wing. 
This isn't good for America. 

1149
00:57:17,910 --> 00:57:20,710
In a society you're always going
to deal with left wing and right

1150
00:57:20,710 --> 00:57:23,870
wing forces that's that's as old
as the hills. 

1151
00:57:24,470 --> 00:57:28,190
And so as we again we we 
delegitimize all these different

1152
00:57:28,190 --> 00:57:31,270
institutions. 
It just it diminishes faith. 

1153
00:57:32,070 --> 00:57:35,590
And you know, that's why there's
kind of a pretty historical 

1154
00:57:35,590 --> 00:57:40,110
record of 250 year lifespans for
different empires. 

1155
00:57:40,870 --> 00:57:44,230
And we're right on that that 
today's we're interviewing here 

1156
00:57:44,230 --> 00:57:48,190
on July 4th, so that's 247 years
that's right on that plus or 

1157
00:57:48,190 --> 00:57:52,630
minus that that that threshold. 
Yeah, I told a friend of mine 

1158
00:57:52,630 --> 00:57:57,030
when I was in Ireland, we were 
actually driving to Dublin in 

1159
00:57:57,030 --> 00:57:59,430
early 2020, and we were having a
discussion. 

1160
00:57:59,430 --> 00:58:02,830
And I told him that I thought 
that, you know, America was kind

1161
00:58:02,830 --> 00:58:06,510
of primed to head into 
destabilization, civil war, 

1162
00:58:06,510 --> 00:58:09,860
perhaps balkanization. 
And he was kind of shocked and 

1163
00:58:09,860 --> 00:58:11,220
he said, well why do you think 
that? 

1164
00:58:11,220 --> 00:58:14,140
And I said because I live there,
right. 

1165
00:58:14,140 --> 00:58:16,100
And that's I said that's what 
I'm seeing. 

1166
00:58:16,100 --> 00:58:18,580
I'm seeing people frustrated. 
And that was before things got 

1167
00:58:18,580 --> 00:58:21,500
even really bad. 
I mean then after 2020 and you 

1168
00:58:21,500 --> 00:58:24,460
see the whole scam demick, you 
know come rolling through. 

1169
00:58:24,460 --> 00:58:26,900
You saw people's businesses 
lives wrecked. 

1170
00:58:27,700 --> 00:58:30,820
You know it's it's none of that 
has been good. 

1171
00:58:30,820 --> 00:58:33,820
And again I think it all, you 
know from a from a much. 

1172
00:58:34,450 --> 00:58:36,330
Larger perspective or agenda it 
is. 

1173
00:58:36,450 --> 00:58:38,850
It's 100% to just destabilize 
our country. 

1174
00:58:40,730 --> 00:58:41,930
I think that you're probably 
right. 

1175
00:58:41,930 --> 00:58:45,330
Let's let's dig a little deeper 
into sort of journalists role in

1176
00:58:45,410 --> 00:58:47,970
January 6th, if you don't mind. 
So I know Owen Schreyer was 

1177
00:58:47,970 --> 00:58:49,610
there. 
I got criticized for sitting 

1178
00:58:49,610 --> 00:58:53,530
down with him and the you know 
there's some NBC guy said, you 

1179
00:58:53,530 --> 00:58:56,210
know this is right now you've 
got the former FBI agent sitting

1180
00:58:56,210 --> 00:58:59,330
down with a man who pled guilty.
I was like I said I. 

1181
00:58:59,490 --> 00:59:02,090
Said KISS Ryan. 
Mr. Station Hunter himself. 

1182
00:59:02,170 --> 00:59:04,370
If if Ryan's watching this, I 
just want to let him. 

1183
00:59:05,210 --> 00:59:06,610
Well, he needs to. 
He needs to. 

1184
00:59:06,690 --> 00:59:09,570
I want his book, but I want it 
signed by him, so he needs to 

1185
00:59:09,570 --> 00:59:11,650
send that to me. 
But that seems fair. 

1186
00:59:12,010 --> 00:59:13,850
Well, yeah, I want to dig into 
your story about that. 

1187
00:59:13,850 --> 00:59:15,170
And then obviously you were 
covering it too. 

1188
00:59:15,170 --> 00:59:18,050
So how were journalists treated 
on January 6th? 

1189
00:59:18,090 --> 00:59:22,050
And did it matter what position 
or what perspective you were 

1190
00:59:22,050 --> 00:59:25,050
coming from? 
You know, I think there's a few 

1191
00:59:25,050 --> 00:59:27,410
different attitudes towards 
that. 

1192
00:59:27,450 --> 00:59:29,850
In my particular case, as I 
mentioned, you know, I had a 

1193
00:59:29,850 --> 00:59:32,330
breach of objectivity, I fully 
acknowledge that. 

1194
00:59:33,460 --> 00:59:36,860
And it was and it was on camera,
it was live and and I was small 

1195
00:59:36,860 --> 00:59:38,340
time. 
So you know, they knew I didn't 

1196
00:59:38,340 --> 00:59:41,980
have any major money behind me 
or anything like that to defend 

1197
00:59:41,980 --> 00:59:43,740
me. 
So I think that plays into 

1198
00:59:43,740 --> 00:59:46,540
decision making. 
You know, obviously there were 

1199
00:59:46,540 --> 00:59:48,180
more left-leaning journalists 
there. 

1200
00:59:49,340 --> 00:59:54,220
You know, it's I don't know what
I don't like because I had 

1201
00:59:54,220 --> 00:59:57,820
witnessed so much of it during 
the BLM riots was people 

1202
00:59:57,820 --> 01:00:01,340
claiming to be journalists 
engaging in riotous behavior. 

1203
01:00:02,190 --> 01:00:05,230
And then say, hey, I'm pressed. 
I'm pressed, you know, so that's

1204
01:00:05,230 --> 01:00:09,070
not what we want. 
It's just a real hard line right

1205
01:00:09,070 --> 01:00:10,550
there. 
When it comes to Owen Troyer 

1206
01:00:10,550 --> 01:00:12,790
himself, you know, always be a 
fan of Owen Troyer. 

1207
01:00:12,790 --> 01:00:17,990
I drank a lot of his beer in 
December 2020, you know, hanging

1208
01:00:17,990 --> 01:00:19,990
out in various places. 
And he's a good guy. 

1209
01:00:21,750 --> 01:00:23,350
I think his heart's in the right
place. 

1210
01:00:23,630 --> 01:00:26,150
You know, I know that a lot of 
journalists these days kind of 

1211
01:00:26,150 --> 01:00:30,310
blur the line between activism 
and following the story, which 

1212
01:00:30,310 --> 01:00:33,790
is why I kind of make that. 
Distinction and say that I was a

1213
01:00:33,870 --> 01:00:36,510
gonzo journalist, so there was, 
there was certainly part of that

1214
01:00:36,510 --> 01:00:41,190
to it, you know. 
But I think with him especially,

1215
01:00:41,190 --> 01:00:44,310
you know, never going into the 
building, there's a reason why 

1216
01:00:44,310 --> 01:00:47,390
they're going after after Owen. 
They they really want to draw 

1217
01:00:47,390 --> 01:00:50,510
that line back to Alex Jones, 
you know. 

1218
01:00:50,510 --> 01:00:53,150
And really a lot of that goes 
back to the Southern Poverty Law

1219
01:00:53,150 --> 01:00:56,910
Center, you know a DL, these 
other organizations that attack 

1220
01:00:56,910 --> 01:00:59,750
anyone who's kind of 
oppositional to the George Soros

1221
01:00:59,750 --> 01:01:03,670
agenda. 
So, you know, it is what it is. 

1222
01:01:03,670 --> 01:01:06,950
You get wrapped up in it. 
And I think, you know, my 

1223
01:01:06,950 --> 01:01:10,470
opinion is he was probably wise 
to plead guilty. 

1224
01:01:10,550 --> 01:01:13,710
Obviously I did. 
I think you have to recognize 

1225
01:01:13,710 --> 01:01:16,710
again the battlefield, you're 
not going to win in DC. 

1226
01:01:17,070 --> 01:01:20,150
So until there's change of venue
for any of these cases, it's 

1227
01:01:20,150 --> 01:01:22,990
it's kind of like you, you got 
to deal with it. 

1228
01:01:22,990 --> 01:01:27,190
However you deal with it and I 
think in his case it's it's it's

1229
01:01:27,190 --> 01:01:29,030
sad. 
I don't think it's good for the 

1230
01:01:29,030 --> 01:01:32,890
1st Amendment. 
But yeah, it is what it is for 

1231
01:01:32,890 --> 01:01:34,810
sure. 
It is the world we're living in.

1232
01:01:35,130 --> 01:01:36,610
Let's talk about your case, if 
you don't mind. 

1233
01:01:36,610 --> 01:01:37,810
Kind of the calculus that went 
on. 

1234
01:01:37,810 --> 01:01:39,930
They charged you with four. 
You ended up pleading like 

1235
01:01:39,930 --> 01:01:42,930
guilty to 1. 
Yeah, yeah, they they, they 

1236
01:01:42,930 --> 01:01:45,850
offered me a plea agreement very
early on. 

1237
01:01:46,850 --> 01:01:48,370
There was a lot of back and 
forth. 

1238
01:01:48,570 --> 01:01:50,850
There's certain parts of that 
that I don't want to discuss 

1239
01:01:50,850 --> 01:01:54,210
because it has to do with, you 
know what, I've already, you 

1240
01:01:54,210 --> 01:01:58,090
know, certainly alleged in open 
court was ineffective counsel. 

1241
01:02:02,030 --> 01:02:04,510
There's so much. 
I mean, look, I mean, I think 

1242
01:02:04,550 --> 01:02:06,990
you probably know the DOJ is 
going to sit there. 

1243
01:02:06,990 --> 01:02:09,190
They're going to watch your bank
account while they carry their 

1244
01:02:09,190 --> 01:02:12,710
prosecution forward. 
And they watch you start to 

1245
01:02:12,710 --> 01:02:14,830
struggle. 
They watch your business fail. 

1246
01:02:15,790 --> 01:02:19,030
You know, they watch you have to
sell your house as I did. 

1247
01:02:20,110 --> 01:02:21,830
You know, they watch your life 
be destroyed. 

1248
01:02:21,830 --> 01:02:24,510
And then finally they get to you
to a point where you don't have 

1249
01:02:24,510 --> 01:02:27,300
any choice. 
If you want to move on with your

1250
01:02:27,300 --> 01:02:31,180
family at all, but to find an 
end date to it however you can. 

1251
01:02:32,460 --> 01:02:35,220
So when we talk about motivating
factors, that was huge. 

1252
01:02:35,220 --> 01:02:38,460
Another one, you know, I haven't
even mentioned, but I love the 

1253
01:02:38,460 --> 01:02:42,500
guy, JD Rivera. 
He was there as a videographer 

1254
01:02:42,500 --> 01:02:46,980
out of Pensacola, FL and he went
to trial on all four charges. 

1255
01:02:46,980 --> 01:02:49,740
He was convicted on all four 
charges and he ended up, you 

1256
01:02:49,740 --> 01:02:51,900
know, spending the last six 
months in federal prison. 

1257
01:02:51,900 --> 01:02:55,880
So. 
You know, he and I would speak a

1258
01:02:55,880 --> 01:02:58,880
lot about, you know, what it 
was, what it wasn't. 

1259
01:02:59,360 --> 01:03:02,480
And our we kind of had a 
gentleman's agreement behind the

1260
01:03:02,480 --> 01:03:05,840
scenes that, you know, depending
on which one of us went to trial

1261
01:03:05,840 --> 01:03:09,120
first, that would inform whoever
went after. 

1262
01:03:09,640 --> 01:03:13,200
And so as the as the cards had 
it, he went to trial first. 

1263
01:03:13,880 --> 01:03:16,360
So I think I would have been 
foolish not to look at what 

1264
01:03:16,360 --> 01:03:20,080
occurred in his trial and 
understand how that might affect

1265
01:03:20,080 --> 01:03:22,630
mine. 
And so, you know, that that 

1266
01:03:22,630 --> 01:03:25,910
played into it as well. 
But for me especially, it was 

1267
01:03:25,910 --> 01:03:28,990
really about okay. 
But what can I do behind bars? 

1268
01:03:29,830 --> 01:03:32,110
You know? 
Would I be more effective at 

1269
01:03:32,590 --> 01:03:35,030
messaging and trying to get 
people to understand the very 

1270
01:03:35,030 --> 01:03:37,510
nuanced truth of January 6th? 
By going to jail? 

1271
01:03:37,510 --> 01:03:40,550
Maybe. 
But I felt as a communicator, as

1272
01:03:40,550 --> 01:03:43,670
a writer, as a journalist, all 
the different things I do, that 

1273
01:03:43,670 --> 01:03:48,350
it was better for me to. 
To find the the way forward that

1274
01:03:48,350 --> 01:03:51,070
had the least amount of 
incarceration and that happened 

1275
01:03:51,070 --> 01:03:55,110
to be pleading guilty. 
And what was the actual count 

1276
01:03:55,110 --> 01:03:57,990
that you pled guilty to? 
I pled guilty to picketing and 

1277
01:03:57,990 --> 01:04:00,630
parading in a capitol building, 
and that's that's kind of a 

1278
01:04:00,630 --> 01:04:03,590
point of detail there as well, 
because when they talk about the

1279
01:04:03,590 --> 01:04:07,030
charges to be dismissed at 
sentencing were indeed based in 

1280
01:04:07,030 --> 01:04:10,990
fact, I struggled with that. 
I never felt as though I was 

1281
01:04:11,190 --> 01:04:13,950
really trespassing. 
I still don't to this day. 

1282
01:04:15,890 --> 01:04:17,170
You know, I was there as a 
journalist. 

1283
01:04:17,170 --> 01:04:19,850
Now whether I, you know, I 
breached objectivity and ended 

1284
01:04:19,850 --> 01:04:22,650
up picketing and parading, I 
felt that was probably a fair 

1285
01:04:22,650 --> 01:04:27,330
characterization of my sin on 
January 6th. 

1286
01:04:27,970 --> 01:04:30,210
So, you know, in the end, you 
know, it's a lot of mental 

1287
01:04:30,210 --> 01:04:33,250
gymnastics sometimes. 
You know, anybody that knows me 

1288
01:04:33,250 --> 01:04:36,530
knows that I really do attempt 
and try to see things from other

1289
01:04:36,530 --> 01:04:38,850
people's perspectives. 
I try not to just be, you know, 

1290
01:04:38,850 --> 01:04:41,730
100% forward with how I think 
all the time. 

1291
01:04:43,130 --> 01:04:45,130
So, you know, that's that's what
it was. 

1292
01:04:45,800 --> 01:04:49,640
You know, it's a Class B 
misdemeanor and I'm sure that it

1293
01:04:49,640 --> 01:04:53,040
will be gone eventually. 
I mean, I'm supposed to be off 

1294
01:04:53,040 --> 01:04:55,280
probation in another year and a 
half. 

1295
01:04:55,720 --> 01:04:58,120
So all I know to do is keep 
working, keep trying to tell the

1296
01:04:58,120 --> 01:05:02,320
truth, and keep moving forward. 
What are the conditions of the 

1297
01:05:02,320 --> 01:05:04,680
probation that restrict you in 
any way if they do? 

1298
01:05:05,160 --> 01:05:08,040
Yeah, the conditions have been 
somewhat annoying. 

1299
01:05:08,240 --> 01:05:10,520
You know, there's kind of been 
some ongoing discussion about 

1300
01:05:10,520 --> 01:05:12,480
employment. 
Obviously it's very hard to get 

1301
01:05:12,480 --> 01:05:17,090
W2 employment. 
As a independent freelance or 

1302
01:05:17,090 --> 01:05:20,450
otherwise free range journalist.
So that's been difficult. 

1303
01:05:20,450 --> 01:05:22,650
But it seems as though we've 
kind of reached a certain 

1304
01:05:22,650 --> 01:05:25,090
equilibrium with US probation 
office at this time. 

1305
01:05:25,690 --> 01:05:28,650
So that's that's good. 
I'm still restricted from 

1306
01:05:28,650 --> 01:05:31,250
traveling, which for somebody 
like me that's very difficult. 

1307
01:05:31,250 --> 01:05:34,210
You know, I've, I've said that 
really I want to get back over 

1308
01:05:34,210 --> 01:05:38,010
to Eastern Europe as soon as 
possible and that's complicated 

1309
01:05:38,010 --> 01:05:41,220
because of this. 
For a variety of reasons. 

1310
01:05:41,220 --> 01:05:42,420
So, you know, but that's all 
right. 

1311
01:05:42,420 --> 01:05:44,820
You know, in the end, I'm just 
going to continue doing what I 

1312
01:05:44,820 --> 01:05:46,460
do. 
You know, I'm happy to have been

1313
01:05:46,460 --> 01:05:49,020
given the opportunity at the 
Gateway Pundit by Jim Hoft. 

1314
01:05:49,700 --> 01:05:51,900
You know, I've been writing a 
lot over there, trying to 

1315
01:05:51,900 --> 01:05:55,220
produce two stories every day. 
Sometimes that's easier said 

1316
01:05:55,220 --> 01:05:57,580
than done. 
And that, you know, that's 

1317
01:05:57,580 --> 01:05:59,580
that's where I'm at. 
I'm just trying to move forward,

1318
01:06:00,020 --> 01:06:04,100
continue to inform the public 
and, you know, kind of live up 

1319
01:06:04,420 --> 01:06:09,260
to my role as a public servant. 
When I looked at your body of 

1320
01:06:09,260 --> 01:06:11,820
work, even the last 10 days, 
you've got, you know, a dozen 

1321
01:06:11,820 --> 01:06:14,340
pieces or so. 
So we had a a rich field to kind

1322
01:06:14,340 --> 01:06:17,420
of pull from. 
What is your process as a 

1323
01:06:17,420 --> 01:06:20,020
journalist, as somebody who 
can't be everywhere, who has to 

1324
01:06:20,020 --> 01:06:25,220
report, you know, from the 
comfort of your home, maybe, you

1325
01:06:25,220 --> 01:06:28,260
know, report from the the 
sources that you do what, what 

1326
01:06:28,260 --> 01:06:30,500
do you go through to be able to 
generate a piece? 

1327
01:06:30,940 --> 01:06:33,780
Well, I think when it comes to 
January 6th, obviously I have a 

1328
01:06:33,780 --> 01:06:36,540
lot of ways to get to primary 
sources on that to get their 

1329
01:06:36,540 --> 01:06:39,010
take on it. 
There's often times when 

1330
01:06:39,010 --> 01:06:41,490
covering these trials that I 
wish I could be in the courtroom

1331
01:06:41,770 --> 01:06:44,050
because I I just have a hard 
time trusting other people's 

1332
01:06:44,050 --> 01:06:45,970
word. 
I always, I always have. 

1333
01:06:46,330 --> 01:06:48,850
I like to see for myself. 
And then if people believe me, 

1334
01:06:48,850 --> 01:06:50,890
great, I want them to believe me
because I want to tell the 

1335
01:06:50,890 --> 01:06:53,010
truth. 
But you know, I'm, I'm, I'm 

1336
01:06:53,010 --> 01:06:56,370
blessed that Mel Holly, who's 
done work on the Justice and 

1337
01:06:56,370 --> 01:06:58,450
Jeopardy podcast, she's talked 
to more J. 

1338
01:06:58,450 --> 01:07:01,850
Sixers than anybody else. 
So we've kind of come to an 

1339
01:07:01,850 --> 01:07:03,970
agreement where she can 
correspond with me from the 

1340
01:07:03,970 --> 01:07:06,960
courtroom, and I trust her. 
I think that she's honest when 

1341
01:07:06,960 --> 01:07:10,000
she speaks to me. 
So that's been good as far as, 

1342
01:07:10,040 --> 01:07:12,880
you know, the other things that 
I report on, you know, I report 

1343
01:07:12,880 --> 01:07:15,560
on national security, 
intelligence matters, you know, 

1344
01:07:15,560 --> 01:07:18,800
even UAP, as we mentioned, you 
know, unidentified aerial 

1345
01:07:18,800 --> 01:07:21,680
phenomena. 
I have very good sources in 

1346
01:07:21,680 --> 01:07:25,960
those realms in those fields. 
Some of them choose to stay 

1347
01:07:25,960 --> 01:07:29,560
anonymous a lot of the time. 
Others have been gracious enough

1348
01:07:29,560 --> 01:07:32,260
to let me use their names. 
In different articles. 

1349
01:07:32,300 --> 01:07:36,260
And so that's that's what I lean
on is experience and people that

1350
01:07:36,260 --> 01:07:39,740
I've learned to trust in order 
to analyze very complex 

1351
01:07:39,740 --> 01:07:43,060
situations. 
And then I honestly the the 

1352
01:07:43,060 --> 01:07:47,540
problem with the way that 
business works is there's not a 

1353
01:07:47,540 --> 01:07:50,420
whole lot of incentive to get 
both sides of the story. 

1354
01:07:52,100 --> 01:07:56,100
You know, obviously the Gateway 
Pundit caters most of the time I

1355
01:07:56,100 --> 01:08:00,020
think to a right wing audience. 
So that's difficult. 

1356
01:08:00,020 --> 01:08:02,740
I mean, I wish I had the time 
and budget to really dig into 

1357
01:08:02,740 --> 01:08:05,660
stories the way I would, you 
know, like to all the time. 

1358
01:08:06,180 --> 01:08:08,380
You know, I think that's 
something that podcasts can 

1359
01:08:08,380 --> 01:08:13,180
actually be real effective at if
you can get a good panel, you 

1360
01:08:13,180 --> 01:08:14,740
know. 
So I that's what I try to do. 

1361
01:08:14,740 --> 01:08:17,620
I just try to find reliable 
sources that I can report on and

1362
01:08:17,620 --> 01:08:22,580
then, you know, try to find 
varying perspectives of whatever

1363
01:08:22,580 --> 01:08:24,380
event it is that I'm reporting 
on. 

1364
01:08:25,649 --> 01:08:27,090
All right. 
What is your methodology? 

1365
01:08:27,090 --> 01:08:29,689
How do you evaluate sources? 
I I come from a different kind 

1366
01:08:29,689 --> 01:08:33,090
of background, but I think maybe
maybe they apply in the same 

1367
01:08:33,090 --> 01:08:34,529
sort of way. 
When you're doing journalistic 

1368
01:08:34,529 --> 01:08:36,609
work, you've got a source in 
front of you. 

1369
01:08:36,609 --> 01:08:38,770
Some of you talked with you say 
you trust them. 

1370
01:08:39,250 --> 01:08:40,850
How do you decide that that that
works out? 

1371
01:08:41,529 --> 01:08:46,609
Well, there's there's there's 
some that I trust and there's 

1372
01:08:46,810 --> 01:08:49,330
many, many others that I will 
always try to verify. 

1373
01:08:50,609 --> 01:08:54,729
So you know that's that's a we 
were kind of mentioning. 

1374
01:08:55,050 --> 01:08:58,770
Earlier before is that as a 
journalist, a lot of times you 

1375
01:08:58,770 --> 01:09:02,130
feel as though you're not 
allowed to have friends, you 

1376
01:09:02,130 --> 01:09:05,930
know, it's it's it's very lonely
if you're doing it right. 

1377
01:09:06,569 --> 01:09:10,050
It's good to have friendly 
relationships with people, but 

1378
01:09:10,689 --> 01:09:13,729
you know when people are also 
the subject of your work, you 

1379
01:09:13,729 --> 01:09:15,609
don't want to cross that line 
too much. 

1380
01:09:17,290 --> 01:09:21,090
So it's it's difficult. 
You know, each source is going 

1381
01:09:21,090 --> 01:09:24,569
to be evaluated differently, I 
think depending on what they 

1382
01:09:24,569 --> 01:09:28,050
say, what they're alleging, you 
know, what their perspective is,

1383
01:09:28,050 --> 01:09:31,010
was their video. 
You know, all of these different

1384
01:09:31,010 --> 01:09:33,529
things When it comes to the 
sources that I've worked with 

1385
01:09:33,609 --> 01:09:37,050
out of the military, I mean, 
these are people that I've known

1386
01:09:37,050 --> 01:09:39,930
for years. 
They've never once led me 

1387
01:09:39,930 --> 01:09:42,250
astray. 
And so as far as I'm concerned, 

1388
01:09:42,250 --> 01:09:46,090
their opinions, their analysis, 
their perspective and and what 

1389
01:09:46,090 --> 01:09:50,040
they tell me is gold, I don't. 
I don't second guess it a lot, 

1390
01:09:50,439 --> 01:09:52,200
but they know. 
They know how I am. 

1391
01:09:52,200 --> 01:09:54,600
I always second guess 
everything. 

1392
01:09:54,760 --> 01:09:56,480
Let's be honest. 
That's fair. 

1393
01:09:56,720 --> 01:09:58,040
You said a journalist can't have
friends. 

1394
01:09:58,040 --> 01:09:59,520
It kind of reminds me of the the
image. 

1395
01:09:59,520 --> 01:10:02,200
You remember the original Batman
with Michael Keaton, where he's 

1396
01:10:02,200 --> 01:10:04,400
got that guy Knox. 
And Knox is like kind of just 

1397
01:10:04,400 --> 01:10:06,240
this obnoxious personality that 
runs around. 

1398
01:10:06,360 --> 01:10:08,080
Nobody likes him, but everybody 
talks to him. 

1399
01:10:08,580 --> 01:10:11,020
Yeah, yeah. 
I mean knocks. 

1400
01:10:12,940 --> 01:10:15,060
Yeah. 
Well, you know, and I try not to

1401
01:10:15,060 --> 01:10:16,780
be that guy. 
I know that people think that 

1402
01:10:16,780 --> 01:10:18,620
that's effective. 
I take a different approach, 

1403
01:10:18,620 --> 01:10:20,060
generally. 
Yeah, that's not very effective 

1404
01:10:20,100 --> 01:10:22,020
I but that's kind of classic, 
you know, news. 

1405
01:10:22,060 --> 01:10:26,620
Oh yeah, the classic up there, 
you know, writing it down all 

1406
01:10:26,620 --> 01:10:28,820
that, you know, that's that's a 
very good stereotype. 

1407
01:10:28,820 --> 01:10:32,260
I think there's a place for 
that, you know, to be kind of 

1408
01:10:32,260 --> 01:10:34,420
very aggressive ambush 
journalism. 

1409
01:10:35,110 --> 01:10:37,590
As it's been said but you know, 
I think that over the years, 

1410
01:10:37,590 --> 01:10:40,110
because I've dealt with so many 
people who wanted to remain 

1411
01:10:40,110 --> 01:10:44,190
confidential, that when you're 
doing investigations, especially

1412
01:10:44,190 --> 01:10:45,950
a lot of times you're dealing 
with people who don't want to 

1413
01:10:45,950 --> 01:10:50,030
come forward, they don't want to
use their name and and a lot of 

1414
01:10:50,030 --> 01:10:51,670
times they have legitimate 
reasons for that. 

1415
01:10:52,630 --> 01:10:55,590
You know, it's, you know, a lot 
of the things that I've worked 

1416
01:10:55,590 --> 01:10:58,630
on is very dangerous. 
You know, I've I've known people

1417
01:10:58,630 --> 01:11:03,610
who died mysteriously, so. 
It it just goes with the 

1418
01:11:03,610 --> 01:11:06,170
territory and you try to verify 
things. 

1419
01:11:06,170 --> 01:11:09,210
And when you're doing long 
investigations, which there's 

1420
01:11:09,210 --> 01:11:12,170
not a whole lot of that going on
necessarily with the work I do 

1421
01:11:12,170 --> 01:11:15,490
at Gateway Pundit. 
But when you know as well as 

1422
01:11:15,490 --> 01:11:18,810
anybody and investigations can 
take a long time before you come

1423
01:11:18,810 --> 01:11:24,130
to any definitive answer. 
So you know, I just try to, you 

1424
01:11:24,130 --> 01:11:28,330
know, check all the boxes as I 
go through and and pick it apart

1425
01:11:29,410 --> 01:11:32,420
with a skeptical. 
Yeah, As a skeptic, how critical

1426
01:11:32,420 --> 01:11:34,060
are you of your own work? 
When you look at it, you 

1427
01:11:34,060 --> 01:11:35,780
reevaluate what you're putting 
out there. 

1428
01:11:36,140 --> 01:11:41,180
Immensely critical. 
I I often, you know, I think you

1429
01:11:41,180 --> 01:11:43,060
know it's funny. 
Even when I was younger you know

1430
01:11:43,060 --> 01:11:47,060
I I you know you I wrote music. 
I used to play in bars and do 

1431
01:11:47,060 --> 01:11:50,700
that and write songs. 
You know, I think everything 

1432
01:11:50,700 --> 01:11:54,940
I've ever done I'm critical of, 
even my work as a plumber and 

1433
01:11:54,940 --> 01:11:58,100
gosh you know everything if 
you're not able to sit back. 

1434
01:11:58,560 --> 01:12:01,280
Analyze your own work and find 
mistakes. 

1435
01:12:02,400 --> 01:12:04,160
I I don't think you'll ever be 
effective. 

1436
01:12:04,600 --> 01:12:08,960
I think that's part of self 
reflection and and just more of 

1437
01:12:08,960 --> 01:12:11,280
that goes back to art of war, 
you know, and you want to learn 

1438
01:12:11,280 --> 01:12:13,720
to understand yourself because 
it makes you a more effective 

1439
01:12:13,720 --> 01:12:16,120
human being. 
So that's something that I'm 

1440
01:12:16,120 --> 01:12:18,760
always trying to improve, you 
know, it's like as we're trying 

1441
01:12:18,760 --> 01:12:22,040
to build a more perfect union, 
well, I'm trying to build a more

1442
01:12:22,040 --> 01:12:23,880
perfect version of myself as 
well. 

1443
01:12:24,840 --> 01:12:26,480
You think that's common in 
journalism today? 

1444
01:12:30,800 --> 01:12:33,160
Oh man, it is. 
So much of journalism is just 

1445
01:12:33,160 --> 01:12:36,200
garbage propaganda these days, 
to be honest. 

1446
01:12:36,280 --> 01:12:39,280
And as someone who understands 
propaganda and fake news, well, 

1447
01:12:40,200 --> 01:12:42,680
now you can spot it. 
I understand a lot of the 

1448
01:12:42,680 --> 01:12:45,360
motivations that go into that. 
Obviously, money is always going

1449
01:12:45,360 --> 01:12:46,920
to be a major motivator for 
people. 

1450
01:12:46,920 --> 01:12:49,600
You've got to make a living and 
it's it's hard to make a living 

1451
01:12:49,600 --> 01:12:54,490
in this business. 
So I I don't know. 

1452
01:12:54,890 --> 01:13:00,770
I mean I I try to just approach 
each journalist as a human being

1453
01:13:00,770 --> 01:13:02,810
first when you're when you're 
looking at that. 

1454
01:13:02,810 --> 01:13:05,450
But you know there's some that 
are leftist that I think are 

1455
01:13:05,570 --> 01:13:08,170
pretty good. 
You know, I, you know Ryan 

1456
01:13:08,170 --> 01:13:11,330
Riley, he's a funny one to bring
up because as far as someone 

1457
01:13:11,330 --> 01:13:13,810
who's reported on January 6th, 
he's been there from the very 

1458
01:13:13,810 --> 01:13:16,530
beginning. 
So you can't say he's not 

1459
01:13:16,530 --> 01:13:19,560
informed. 
Whether you agree with his takes

1460
01:13:19,560 --> 01:13:21,200
or not, you know that's another 
thing. 

1461
01:13:21,200 --> 01:13:24,520
But I don't have any major 
disrespect for for Ryan. 

1462
01:13:24,520 --> 01:13:27,760
There's others who've reported 
on January 6th that because you 

1463
01:13:27,760 --> 01:13:30,040
know, my opinions are pretty 
negative, I won't mention their 

1464
01:13:30,040 --> 01:13:33,000
names, but you're. 
Certainly welcome to, by the 

1465
01:13:33,000 --> 01:13:33,400
way. 
I don't. 

1466
01:13:33,960 --> 01:13:35,760
I know, I know. 
I just. 

1467
01:13:35,800 --> 01:13:38,640
I try not to. 
I I just try not to do that. 

1468
01:13:39,240 --> 01:13:43,520
You know I think if it it's in 
in my situation, you know as I 

1469
01:13:43,880 --> 01:13:46,780
you know voice opinion. 
I would rather voice those 

1470
01:13:46,780 --> 01:13:49,540
opinions and have them be 
positive of people than focusing

1471
01:13:49,540 --> 01:13:51,980
on the negativity because like 
we were even saying, I mean, 

1472
01:13:51,980 --> 01:13:54,700
nobody likes good news. 
Well, sorry, you're listening to

1473
01:13:54,700 --> 01:13:59,780
Kyle's show and I want to get 
positive right now, so there's 

1474
01:13:59,780 --> 01:14:01,100
too much negativity in the 
world. 

1475
01:14:01,300 --> 01:14:04,140
There is a lot of negativity. 
There is a lot. 

1476
01:14:04,300 --> 01:14:07,140
So some of your reporting, I saw
you recently covered sort of 

1477
01:14:07,140 --> 01:14:11,980
President Trump talking Lindsey 
Graham on stage with him macro 

1478
01:14:11,980 --> 01:14:13,580
level. 
What do you see going on with 

1479
01:14:13,580 --> 01:14:16,700
this, you know, maybe the 
Republican side of the 2024 race

1480
01:14:16,700 --> 01:14:18,220
and then if you see something 
interesting going on the 

1481
01:14:18,220 --> 01:14:20,700
Democrat side too, What what's 
your take on coming up? 

1482
01:14:20,700 --> 01:14:23,420
We're we're entering I guess 
full swing the election cycle. 

1483
01:14:23,420 --> 01:14:24,620
So it's happening one way or 
another. 

1484
01:14:25,420 --> 01:14:27,300
Oh, what a mess. 
What? 

1485
01:14:28,100 --> 01:14:30,500
What an absolute mess. 
I mean, look at, you know, I 

1486
01:14:30,500 --> 01:14:33,690
always kind of, you know. 
I'll always call him Uncle 

1487
01:14:33,690 --> 01:14:37,650
Donnie. 
Uncle Donnie, he's something 

1488
01:14:37,650 --> 01:14:39,890
else. 
Uncle Donnie loves him some him.

1489
01:14:40,090 --> 01:14:45,290
I will say that. 
I think he's qualified to do the

1490
01:14:45,290 --> 01:14:49,490
job still. 
I think the Republican you 

1491
01:14:49,490 --> 01:14:52,330
mentioned, you didn't vote for 
him in 2016. 

1492
01:14:52,330 --> 01:14:54,170
We have the same power, so maybe
tell people that. 

1493
01:14:54,410 --> 01:14:58,890
Yeah, I I mean, I look in in 
2016 I looked at. 

1494
01:14:59,560 --> 01:15:03,000
Donald Trump as being this, you 
know, bloviating asshole, to be 

1495
01:15:03,000 --> 01:15:06,920
honest, you know, I wasn't a 
huge fan of his show or anything

1496
01:15:06,920 --> 01:15:08,040
else. 
You know, I didn't like his 

1497
01:15:08,040 --> 01:15:12,160
personality. 
It really took four years of his

1498
01:15:12,160 --> 01:15:14,960
presidency to kind of look at 
the situation, you know? 

1499
01:15:14,960 --> 01:15:17,480
And back in 2020, I was 
convinced that we were going to 

1500
01:15:17,480 --> 01:15:20,720
be going to war with China 
within five years. 

1501
01:15:22,560 --> 01:15:25,840
And I said, I said, well, Biden 
is compromised. 

1502
01:15:26,960 --> 01:15:30,690
I mean, I knew it then. 
You know, I knew the laptop was 

1503
01:15:30,690 --> 01:15:33,690
real when it came out. 
I didn't, I didn't have any 

1504
01:15:33,690 --> 01:15:38,650
doubts about who Joe Biden was. 
He's he's a corrupt, really 

1505
01:15:38,650 --> 01:15:42,530
horrible human being. 
And, you know, Donnie may not be

1506
01:15:42,530 --> 01:15:47,330
perfect, but, you know, he was 
he was the right guy for the 

1507
01:15:47,330 --> 01:15:53,690
job, in my opinion at the time. 
I think 2024 is going to be 

1508
01:15:53,690 --> 01:15:56,630
interesting. 
You know, the obviously the 

1509
01:15:56,630 --> 01:16:00,550
concerns about legitimacy of the
election process play in they're

1510
01:16:00,550 --> 01:16:03,670
trying to put him in prison. 
If he wasn't a threat to that 

1511
01:16:03,670 --> 01:16:06,110
kind of establishment, I don't 
think they would be going after 

1512
01:16:06,110 --> 01:16:07,910
him so hard. 
But it's but it's but it is so 

1513
01:16:07,910 --> 01:16:10,150
tied in with all the opposition 
messaging. 

1514
01:16:10,150 --> 01:16:12,990
You know, you've got this this 
guy who tried to overthrow 

1515
01:16:12,990 --> 01:16:16,390
democracy. 
You know, I'm really interested 

1516
01:16:16,390 --> 01:16:21,030
in Robert Kennedy's campaign. 
I think that that's a positive 

1517
01:16:21,030 --> 01:16:24,350
development for America. 
I, you know, I remarked my, my 

1518
01:16:24,350 --> 01:16:27,630
father and I were speaking about
this the other night, actually 

1519
01:16:27,630 --> 01:16:30,790
where I I said, you know, really
as a president, what we need 

1520
01:16:30,790 --> 01:16:33,950
someone who understands the 
problems that we face on a 

1521
01:16:33,950 --> 01:16:38,470
national security level. 
I think that's insanely 

1522
01:16:38,470 --> 01:16:41,070
important right now. 
You know, obviously the domestic

1523
01:16:41,070 --> 01:16:45,630
issues are really important, but
they also have to be willing to 

1524
01:16:45,630 --> 01:16:47,430
kind of bring the country back 
together. 

1525
01:16:47,630 --> 01:16:51,070
We're so fractured, we're so 
divided that unless the next 

1526
01:16:51,070 --> 01:16:53,180
president. 
Can really work and bring us 

1527
01:16:53,180 --> 01:16:54,420
back together. 
I don't think it'll be 

1528
01:16:54,420 --> 01:16:56,580
successful. 
So, you know, that's what I'm 

1529
01:16:56,580 --> 01:16:58,980
looking for. 
You know, Lindsey Graham. 

1530
01:17:00,500 --> 01:17:03,780
He's Lindsey Graham. 
Lot of people don't like him for

1531
01:17:03,780 --> 01:17:08,860
a lot of different reasons. 
And you know, I think, I think, 

1532
01:17:09,140 --> 01:17:11,500
you know, Trump knows the game 
well at this point. 

1533
01:17:11,900 --> 01:17:14,540
A lot of people have said that 
he didn't really understand what

1534
01:17:14,540 --> 01:17:17,180
he was getting into when he came
into office. 

1535
01:17:17,180 --> 01:17:19,540
They think that he should have 
drained the swamp immediately. 

1536
01:17:20,650 --> 01:17:23,450
You know, I kind of as usual 
take a more nuanced position on 

1537
01:17:23,450 --> 01:17:27,250
that where even when people talk
about the deep state, you know, 

1538
01:17:27,250 --> 01:17:29,130
I think what a lot of people 
don't realize is just how 

1539
01:17:29,130 --> 01:17:33,170
compartmentalized that I don't 
know what we want to call it 

1540
01:17:33,170 --> 01:17:38,410
phenomena is where, you know, it
isn't a monolithic controlling 

1541
01:17:38,410 --> 01:17:40,010
entity. 
There's a lot of different 

1542
01:17:40,010 --> 01:17:44,170
interests within that within the
military industrial complex and 

1543
01:17:44,170 --> 01:17:47,090
they're all vying for power and 
seeing who they can influence 

1544
01:17:47,090 --> 01:17:48,770
and seeing what will benefit 
them so. 

1545
01:17:49,240 --> 01:17:51,560
Again, a very, very complicated 
situation. 

1546
01:17:52,640 --> 01:17:55,800
You know, this is going to be 
crucial for the United States, 

1547
01:17:56,760 --> 01:17:59,400
how we handle ourselves since 
next presidential election. 

1548
01:18:02,480 --> 01:18:04,400
Is that our buddy Lindsey Graham
there? 

1549
01:18:04,480 --> 01:18:06,200
Thanks for that one, Ron. 
And that called me off guard. 

1550
01:18:06,200 --> 01:18:07,600
I was like, who just came into 
my ears. 

1551
01:18:07,960 --> 01:18:10,040
Where did that come from? 
Yeah, yeah, that's right, 

1552
01:18:10,040 --> 01:18:11,680
Lindsey. 
Greatest hits it'll be. 

1553
01:18:11,720 --> 01:18:14,820
It'll be. 
Yeah, probably not near as 

1554
01:18:14,820 --> 01:18:17,660
entertaining as the Barcano 
stuff from earlier, but. 

1555
01:18:18,460 --> 01:18:20,260
There he is. 
There's Ryan, popping onto the 

1556
01:18:20,260 --> 01:18:21,140
screen. 
Appreciate. 

1557
01:18:21,700 --> 01:18:23,980
That ambushing us with the. 
Yeah, let me Let me throw up for

1558
01:18:23,980 --> 01:18:25,980
everybody. 
So if they're watching, Trump is

1559
01:18:25,980 --> 01:18:29,980
a fucking idiot. 
That's very troubling. 

1560
01:18:30,860 --> 01:18:32,260
I can't believe you did that on 
C-SPAN. 

1561
01:18:34,980 --> 01:18:37,620
Look, this is where we're at. 
This is where we're at and and 

1562
01:18:37,660 --> 01:18:40,020
and you know that could. 
Have never happened 10 years 

1563
01:18:40,020 --> 01:18:42,470
ago. 
Probably not ten years ago, but 

1564
01:18:42,470 --> 01:18:44,590
I think it would have happened 
in like 1780. 

1565
01:18:45,550 --> 01:18:46,910
You think that's where they were
at then? 

1566
01:18:47,950 --> 01:18:50,390
There was a dual as I recall. 
Yes. 

1567
01:18:51,270 --> 01:18:54,670
So you know, politics is a dirty
game. 

1568
01:18:54,670 --> 01:18:57,150
People are going to say dirty 
things and a lot of times they 

1569
01:18:57,150 --> 01:18:59,150
want to kill each other. 
Do you know, Do you know where 

1570
01:18:59,150 --> 01:19:00,710
the expression toe the line 
comes from? 

1571
01:19:00,710 --> 01:19:03,910
Are you familiar with that? 
Yeah, that's when you you go toe

1572
01:19:03,910 --> 01:19:06,190
up to box, right? 
Or is that something different? 

1573
01:19:06,630 --> 01:19:09,720
No, it's something different. 
So it is a it is a political 

1574
01:19:09,720 --> 01:19:13,400
command coming from, I believe, 
the House of Commons, but I it 

1575
01:19:13,400 --> 01:19:17,120
might be the House of Lords. 
It's it's a British expression. 

1576
01:19:17,360 --> 01:19:20,280
The gentleman must tell. 
The line means that someone has 

1577
01:19:20,280 --> 01:19:23,480
to step back to the line. 
There is a line between the two 

1578
01:19:23,480 --> 01:19:28,600
houses or the two sides of the 
benches, and that distance is 

1579
01:19:29,080 --> 01:19:32,800
the distance of a man's arm plus
the distance of a sword times 2 

1580
01:19:32,800 --> 01:19:35,280
+ 1. 
Foot Yeah, that's probably a 

1581
01:19:35,280 --> 01:19:37,430
good idea. 
That's probably a good idea. 

1582
01:19:37,670 --> 01:19:40,590
British, British and I I took a 
British party politics course. 

1583
01:19:40,590 --> 01:19:43,910
So if somebody finds that to be 
inaccurate, then that's what I 

1584
01:19:43,910 --> 01:19:46,510
was taught when I was over in in
London going and studying. 

1585
01:19:46,510 --> 01:19:49,230
But I find it fascinating that 
they actually thought it was so 

1586
01:19:49,230 --> 01:19:51,990
important that for them to have 
civil discourse, no matter how 

1587
01:19:51,990 --> 01:19:54,150
rowdy they got, they had to be 
just far enough that they 

1588
01:19:54,150 --> 01:19:57,310
couldn't cross swords. 
And that's that's where politics

1589
01:19:57,310 --> 01:19:58,630
used to be. 
And that's how this country was 

1590
01:19:58,630 --> 01:20:01,070
founded, looking at that system,
which is quite funny to me. 

1591
01:20:01,510 --> 01:20:04,030
Well, again, I think that's one 
of those things where you know. 

1592
01:20:04,800 --> 01:20:07,240
Talking about something in 
principle is fantastic. 

1593
01:20:07,240 --> 01:20:09,160
Reality tends to be a lot 
messier. 

1594
01:20:09,960 --> 01:20:12,720
So we have a messy political 
situation. 

1595
01:20:12,720 --> 01:20:16,600
But you know, it's been a messy 
world for the last forever. 

1596
01:20:16,600 --> 01:20:18,360
How many thousand years we want 
to talk about. 

1597
01:20:18,520 --> 01:20:19,920
Yeah, all of them. 
I think you're correct. 

1598
01:20:20,160 --> 01:20:21,960
What about the Democrat side? 
You see anything interesting 

1599
01:20:21,960 --> 01:20:23,600
happening over there? 
We see Robert F Kennedy coming 

1600
01:20:23,600 --> 01:20:24,240
in. 
That's cool. 

1601
01:20:24,480 --> 01:20:25,800
What else? 
Yeah, yeah. 

1602
01:20:25,800 --> 01:20:29,320
I mean, you know, Cornell West 
kind of entering the fray, I 

1603
01:20:29,320 --> 01:20:32,040
think is probably more 
premonition. 

1604
01:20:32,460 --> 01:20:34,700
Than anything a lot of people 
talk about, you know, whether or

1605
01:20:34,700 --> 01:20:37,940
not Michelle Obama will get 
involved in that. 

1606
01:20:39,180 --> 01:20:41,500
You know, they're going to have 
to come up with something to 

1607
01:20:41,500 --> 01:20:44,300
legitimize it, if nothing else, 
even if everything's rigged and 

1608
01:20:44,300 --> 01:20:46,500
they're just going to install 
the next, you know, Democratic 

1609
01:20:46,500 --> 01:20:48,180
president. 
You know, I don't think 

1610
01:20:48,180 --> 01:20:53,060
anybody's going to buy a second 
by he's just so bad. 

1611
01:20:53,300 --> 01:20:55,540
He's just so bad on so many 
levels. 

1612
01:20:56,220 --> 01:20:58,950
You know, so. 
You know, again, I would like to

1613
01:20:58,950 --> 01:21:02,510
see, you know, Trump versus RFKI
think that would be the most 

1614
01:21:02,510 --> 01:21:05,870
American election we could have.
I think that America would 

1615
01:21:05,870 --> 01:21:09,790
probably benefit in either 
outcome with that particular 

1616
01:21:09,790 --> 01:21:12,950
setup and scenario. 
So that's. 2 populists in that 

1617
01:21:13,110 --> 01:21:15,150
way. 
Well, yeah, but it's about 

1618
01:21:15,150 --> 01:21:17,070
America first. 
I mean, that's the thing. 

1619
01:21:17,070 --> 01:21:19,430
It's like we can even talk about
my political leanings and 

1620
01:21:19,430 --> 01:21:21,830
everything else. 
But in the end, I love this 

1621
01:21:21,830 --> 01:21:22,550
country. 
I know. 

1622
01:21:22,550 --> 01:21:24,150
You're not watching. 
You're not watching our Rumble 

1623
01:21:24,150 --> 01:21:25,390
channel. 
You're missing out on Ryan 

1624
01:21:25,390 --> 01:21:28,230
having some fun with some of the
the photos that exist in the 

1625
01:21:28,230 --> 01:21:29,150
world that. 
Are well, he knew. 

1626
01:21:29,310 --> 01:21:31,550
He knew that. 
When I said Michelle Obama, what

1627
01:21:31,550 --> 01:21:33,990
I was really thinking was Big 
Mike and I was trying to 

1628
01:21:33,990 --> 01:21:35,630
reframe. 
So you know, thanks for that. 

1629
01:21:36,470 --> 01:21:37,870
He's over there being a mind 
reader. 

1630
01:21:37,870 --> 01:21:41,030
Is he psychic, been in the 
remote viewing program or what? 

1631
01:21:41,480 --> 01:21:42,920
He's got that going on. 
Yeah, he can. 

1632
01:21:42,960 --> 01:21:45,120
He can look into your brain. 
When I was working surveillance 

1633
01:21:45,120 --> 01:21:47,080
for the Bureau. 
This is just a silly aside here.

1634
01:21:47,080 --> 01:21:48,240
We'll lighten up things a little
bit. 

1635
01:21:48,720 --> 01:21:51,080
I'm. 
I'm sitting on surveillance and 

1636
01:21:51,200 --> 01:21:53,000
most people don't have a great 
image of what that looks like. 

1637
01:21:53,000 --> 01:21:54,640
They've seen it on cop shows. 
They haven't experienced it 

1638
01:21:54,640 --> 01:21:56,080
themselves. 
Go sit in A. 

1639
01:21:56,080 --> 01:22:00,320
Room by yourself and look out of
a window for 8 hours and don't 

1640
01:22:00,320 --> 01:22:02,520
get out of that seat. 
So carry a bottle so you can 

1641
01:22:02,520 --> 01:22:04,360
pee. 
Carry whatever you want next to 

1642
01:22:04,360 --> 01:22:05,920
you. 
A lunch in a pack, that's what 

1643
01:22:05,920 --> 01:22:08,880
my life was, you know, thousands
of hours a year. 

1644
01:22:09,570 --> 01:22:11,530
And and I really enjoyed it 
because it's like hunting. 

1645
01:22:11,530 --> 01:22:13,530
You have to be very patient and 
occasionally you get to do fun 

1646
01:22:13,530 --> 01:22:15,210
stuff and most of the time 
you're waiting for it to happen.

1647
01:22:15,690 --> 01:22:17,690
And in the middle of all this 
stuff on one of these days, my 

1648
01:22:17,690 --> 01:22:20,010
wife reaches out to me and I 
can't remember if we had our 

1649
01:22:20,010 --> 01:22:21,730
first daughter was born yet or 
not. 

1650
01:22:21,730 --> 01:22:24,810
But I'm pretty sure it was early
on we we were, you know, just 

1651
01:22:24,810 --> 01:22:26,290
doing this FBI think, no, it 
must have been. 

1652
01:22:26,290 --> 01:22:27,330
We must have had at least one 
kid. 

1653
01:22:27,610 --> 01:22:30,050
So I'm sitting there and she 
calls me up or she sends me some

1654
01:22:30,050 --> 01:22:34,490
text messages and she says is it
possible that Michelle Obama is 

1655
01:22:34,490 --> 01:22:37,970
a dude And I'm looking down at 
the text messages and I'm 

1656
01:22:37,970 --> 01:22:41,040
thinking. 
What are you watching, my dear? 

1657
01:22:41,200 --> 01:22:44,000
What is going on back home when 
I am not there at the house? 

1658
01:22:44,360 --> 01:22:46,160
And then she starts sending me 
link after link. 

1659
01:22:46,320 --> 01:22:49,680
And one of them was a great Alex
Jones compilation video or some 

1660
01:22:49,680 --> 01:22:51,320
crazy thing like that. 
It was definitely Infowars. 

1661
01:22:51,680 --> 01:22:57,160
And so I start watching it and I
go, oh man, I was really pretty 

1662
01:22:57,160 --> 01:22:59,160
confident before I started this 
conversation. 

1663
01:22:59,160 --> 01:23:03,000
And now this is a very troubling
video to watch, right? 

1664
01:23:03,000 --> 01:23:06,120
You watch that stuff and you go.
Now at least I have some shade 

1665
01:23:06,120 --> 01:23:08,360
of doubt. 
And I'm not sure that I care 

1666
01:23:08,400 --> 01:23:09,920
either way. 
It doesn't really matter to me, 

1667
01:23:09,920 --> 01:23:11,840
but it was. 
Really weird, Kyle. 

1668
01:23:11,840 --> 01:23:14,200
You got to be careful when you 
start going down that line of 

1669
01:23:14,200 --> 01:23:15,880
thinking because the next thing 
you know, you're going to be 

1670
01:23:15,880 --> 01:23:17,560
wearing a Buffalo hat and 
screaming freedom. 

1671
01:23:19,080 --> 01:23:20,880
Right. 
Well, as my buddy Steve Friend 

1672
01:23:20,880 --> 01:23:22,960
likes to talk about, I didn't 
get the copy of the 

1673
01:23:22,960 --> 01:23:24,240
Constitution. 
Like I've got a little pocket 

1674
01:23:24,240 --> 01:23:26,040
Constitution. 
It doesn't have the secret ink 

1675
01:23:26,040 --> 01:23:29,200
on the back that says when the 
Buffalo hat wearing man reaches 

1676
01:23:29,200 --> 01:23:33,320
the speaker's floor and sits in 
the chair, then your preferred 

1677
01:23:33,320 --> 01:23:35,480
branch of government takes over 
your preferred party. 

1678
01:23:35,800 --> 01:23:38,120
I didn't get that copy. 
I guess it's out there. 

1679
01:23:38,120 --> 01:23:39,720
Maybe you saw it when you were 
at January 6th. 

1680
01:23:39,720 --> 01:23:41,840
Did you see them kind of, you 
know, trading that? 

1681
01:23:41,920 --> 01:23:42,600
Right. 
Yeah. 

1682
01:23:42,600 --> 01:23:44,720
I mean, I think when it comes to
the Constitution, it just 

1683
01:23:44,720 --> 01:23:47,080
depends on who you talk to, what
it says, so. 

1684
01:23:48,040 --> 01:23:50,720
Does it say what a woman is, or 
does that not something we do 

1685
01:23:50,720 --> 01:23:52,720
anymore? 
I don't think we want to get 

1686
01:23:52,720 --> 01:23:54,760
into definitions. 
There were even some issues with

1687
01:23:54,760 --> 01:23:57,520
what they considered to be a 
human being, as I recall so. 

1688
01:23:58,240 --> 01:24:00,040
They continue to. 
I actually put a tweet out today

1689
01:24:00,040 --> 01:24:02,000
and or not today. 
Maybe it was yesterday but it 

1690
01:24:02,000 --> 01:24:04,680
was something to the effect of 
and and Ben Shapiro said this 

1691
01:24:04,680 --> 01:24:07,200
and and Josie the redheaded 
libertarian is big on this one 

1692
01:24:07,200 --> 01:24:10,160
as well but it's essentially the
definition of personhood have 

1693
01:24:10,160 --> 01:24:12,680
been the two original sins of 
this country and that falls 

1694
01:24:12,680 --> 01:24:15,360
under whether you talk about 
abortion or slavery they're 

1695
01:24:15,360 --> 01:24:17,280
just. 
Failed definitions of person. 

1696
01:24:17,280 --> 01:24:20,720
So curious. 
You mentioned kind of a belief 

1697
01:24:20,720 --> 01:24:23,440
in God earlier. 
Did I did I take that correctly?

1698
01:24:23,440 --> 01:24:24,600
Was that something that's been 
guiding you? 

1699
01:24:24,880 --> 01:24:27,480
Yeah, yeah, definitely. 
As an anarchist 

1700
01:24:27,480 --> 01:24:30,600
constitutionalist, where do you 
fall in the in the faith? 

1701
01:24:30,760 --> 01:24:35,840
Spectrum in the In the faith 
spectrum I am, I try to increase

1702
01:24:35,840 --> 01:24:42,160
my reliance on faith every day I
was raised in church. 

1703
01:24:44,300 --> 01:24:47,980
And you know, as somebody who's,
you know, skeptical, analytical,

1704
01:24:48,620 --> 01:24:51,580
you know, looking at a lot of 
different things, studied 

1705
01:24:51,580 --> 01:24:56,460
different religions, 
anthropology, I kind of talked 

1706
01:24:56,460 --> 01:25:00,940
myself into being agnostic, 
really close to atheism for the 

1707
01:25:00,940 --> 01:25:03,980
most part. 
And that carried on through my 

1708
01:25:03,980 --> 01:25:09,620
life for years. 
And then and then there was, 

1709
01:25:09,620 --> 01:25:12,700
there was a situation, I don't 
know how else to describe it. 

1710
01:25:13,090 --> 01:25:15,410
You know, I'm sitting here, it's
like I'm trying to write a book 

1711
01:25:15,410 --> 01:25:17,410
right now about all these 
different experiences. 

1712
01:25:17,410 --> 01:25:20,130
And this is the one part that 
I'm still struggling with 

1713
01:25:20,130 --> 01:25:23,050
because it's just so monumental 
in my life. 

1714
01:25:23,050 --> 01:25:26,770
But it it really did feel there 
was a, there was a moment where 

1715
01:25:27,250 --> 01:25:34,850
I was given a vision or a 
download, kind of really 

1716
01:25:34,850 --> 01:25:39,690
difficult to describe, and that 
set me on this path. 

1717
01:25:40,480 --> 01:25:43,920
To the point where in a lot of 
ways I saw things happen in my 

1718
01:25:43,920 --> 01:25:51,160
mind before they did. 
And I know that it like, it's 

1719
01:25:51,160 --> 01:25:53,400
like you start talking about 
this and a lot of people just 

1720
01:25:53,400 --> 01:25:57,560
say you're crazy. 
But it for me that was it was 

1721
01:25:57,560 --> 01:26:00,520
monumental. 
It it totally shifted my 

1722
01:26:00,520 --> 01:26:04,440
thinking. 
I was no longer doubtful that 

1723
01:26:04,440 --> 01:26:09,960
there was a God. 
I was convinced of it. 

1724
01:26:10,590 --> 01:26:15,750
So it's it's funny a a friend of
mine that I I speak to every 

1725
01:26:15,750 --> 01:26:18,750
once and again his name's Doctor
Jack Sarfaty. 

1726
01:26:18,750 --> 01:26:22,550
Some people will know him, but 
we were having a conversation 

1727
01:26:22,550 --> 01:26:27,390
about that because he does a lot
of work in theoretical physics 

1728
01:26:27,390 --> 01:26:30,070
and talks about things like 
retrocausation, the idea that 

1729
01:26:30,550 --> 01:26:35,510
you know future events have an 
effect on your present time or 

1730
01:26:35,510 --> 01:26:37,630
your present location in 
space-time. 

1731
01:26:38,760 --> 01:26:41,720
And he's, he mentioned something
about, you know, being, you 

1732
01:26:41,720 --> 01:26:45,480
know, Saul from Tarsus, a little
bit of that to it, you know, or 

1733
01:26:45,480 --> 01:26:48,880
even or even the idea of being 
John on the Isle of Patmos, 

1734
01:26:48,880 --> 01:26:51,320
where sometimes you're seeing 
things and you don't know how to

1735
01:26:51,320 --> 01:26:55,120
describe them. 
So you know my experience with 

1736
01:26:55,920 --> 01:27:00,560
with God or you know, a higher 
power cosmic consciousness, some

1737
01:27:00,560 --> 01:27:06,200
might say it's it's very it's 
very nuanced like every other 

1738
01:27:06,200 --> 01:27:09,050
part of me. 
But it's very real and and I try

1739
01:27:09,050 --> 01:27:10,850
to let that guide me in 
everything I do. 

1740
01:27:11,050 --> 01:27:16,170
Because to me, it's to me, in my
own experiences, I can't, I 

1741
01:27:16,170 --> 01:27:19,890
can't understand how I've 
experienced all the things I 

1742
01:27:19,890 --> 01:27:22,690
have, all of the different 
amazing people that I've met. 

1743
01:27:23,530 --> 01:27:25,050
You know, especially as a 
plumber, right? 

1744
01:27:25,170 --> 01:27:27,700
I'm just a plumber. 
You're my new favorite plumber 

1745
01:27:27,820 --> 01:27:30,780
so far. 
So yeah, you know I've I've just

1746
01:27:30,780 --> 01:27:33,980
had all these amazing 
experiences and I've always been

1747
01:27:33,980 --> 01:27:37,580
kept safe in some really, really
dangerous situations as well. 

1748
01:27:38,460 --> 01:27:40,300
You know far beyond January 6th 
even. 

1749
01:27:40,300 --> 01:27:43,140
And I I don't know how that 
happens without divine 

1750
01:27:43,140 --> 01:27:45,980
Providence. 
So I just continue to kind of 

1751
01:27:45,980 --> 01:27:50,020
let that guide me in my life. 
I try to be the best version of 

1752
01:27:50,020 --> 01:27:52,180
myself I can be and I try to 
improve all the time. 

1753
01:27:52,180 --> 01:27:55,100
But yeah, I mean faith is so 
wrapped up in that so as a as. 

1754
01:27:55,300 --> 01:27:57,430
A. 
You know, anarchist, 

1755
01:27:57,430 --> 01:28:00,950
constitutionalist, you know, 
Christian, right? 

1756
01:28:00,950 --> 01:28:02,830
You know that that term's 
interesting to me. 

1757
01:28:02,870 --> 01:28:07,510
I there's certain connotations 
with that that I may not 100% 

1758
01:28:07,510 --> 01:28:10,590
agree with, but I think that the
example that Christ gave, I 

1759
01:28:10,590 --> 01:28:15,630
think is amazing. 
So yeah, it all plays into it. 

1760
01:28:15,630 --> 01:28:17,550
And we talked about Tolstoy 
earlier. 

1761
01:28:17,550 --> 01:28:20,270
He was, he was a very Christian 
man, also an anarchist. 

1762
01:28:21,310 --> 01:28:23,750
You know, he talked about things
like the Kingdom of God being 

1763
01:28:23,750 --> 01:28:25,960
within you. 
And I think that that's 

1764
01:28:25,960 --> 01:28:29,160
something we as humans can start
to understand more about 

1765
01:28:29,160 --> 01:28:31,800
ourselves. 
Actually another very good 

1766
01:28:31,800 --> 01:28:35,200
friend of mine, people should 
maybe check it out on LinkedIn. 

1767
01:28:35,200 --> 01:28:36,960
I know, I know, he put it up 
there. 

1768
01:28:37,240 --> 01:28:41,960
Doctor Michael Moran, former 
Special Forces, great guy, 

1769
01:28:42,880 --> 01:28:45,760
scientist. 
But he just recently put out, 

1770
01:28:45,760 --> 01:28:48,920
you know, kind of some 
statements about, you know, 

1771
01:28:48,920 --> 01:28:53,760
discovering our connection to 
the quantum universe through 

1772
01:28:53,760 --> 01:28:56,680
quantum thinking. 
And quantum experience. 

1773
01:28:56,880 --> 01:29:00,000
You know this understanding that
particles that are vast 

1774
01:29:00,000 --> 01:29:02,800
distances from each other can 
have an influence on one 

1775
01:29:02,800 --> 01:29:05,040
another. 
This is a very light reading, 

1776
01:29:05,040 --> 01:29:07,080
obviously. 
Yeah, yeah, I know. 

1777
01:29:07,240 --> 01:29:10,720
It's like like a lot of people I
talk to, you know, I I find 

1778
01:29:10,720 --> 01:29:13,000
myself, you know, speaking to 
people or listening to them 

1779
01:29:13,000 --> 01:29:14,280
sometimes. 
And they're and they're going 

1780
01:29:14,280 --> 01:29:15,600
off. 
I mean we're talking, you know, 

1781
01:29:16,360 --> 01:29:20,080
you know, top of their field 
scientists, you know, and they 

1782
01:29:20,080 --> 01:29:23,120
start going on and on and I'm 
just sitting there going I am in

1783
01:29:23,120 --> 01:29:27,320
Neanderthal. 
You know, so you know, I I love 

1784
01:29:27,560 --> 01:29:29,080
that. 
But can they turn a wrench? 

1785
01:29:29,480 --> 01:29:31,880
And can they stop the leak on 
their sink? 

1786
01:29:32,080 --> 01:29:34,080
So there there's a place for 
everything. 

1787
01:29:34,080 --> 01:29:36,520
And there's also nothing more 
common than an experience in the

1788
01:29:36,520 --> 01:29:38,720
divine in every culture. 
Yeah, yeah. 

1789
01:29:38,720 --> 01:29:42,520
I mean it goes back as far as 
human history and it's very 

1790
01:29:42,520 --> 01:29:44,200
real. 
I mean when we it's like that's 

1791
01:29:44,200 --> 01:29:47,160
where it gets into things, you 
know that you know John 

1792
01:29:47,160 --> 01:29:49,760
Alexander called High 
Strangeness, you know Colonel 

1793
01:29:49,760 --> 01:29:52,760
John Alexander and. 
And all these different 

1794
01:29:52,760 --> 01:29:55,160
phenomena that are experienced. 
And that's why I love that 

1795
01:29:55,160 --> 01:29:59,160
particular field, even in my 
work trying to report on it, is 

1796
01:29:59,160 --> 01:30:01,600
because it's fascinating. 
It's it's like the ultimate 

1797
01:30:01,600 --> 01:30:04,120
philosophical questions of where
we came from. 

1798
01:30:04,440 --> 01:30:07,440
You know, how we were made. 
What is the true nature of human

1799
01:30:07,440 --> 01:30:09,320
consciousness? 
What is a soul? 

1800
01:30:10,120 --> 01:30:13,560
Those are the questions that I 
think are the absolute most 

1801
01:30:13,560 --> 01:30:15,520
important for any journalist to 
dig into. 

1802
01:30:15,520 --> 01:30:18,580
So that's why I try to. 
Try to do that and keep that 

1803
01:30:18,580 --> 01:30:20,700
part of my work as well, because
again, going back to my 

1804
01:30:20,700 --> 01:30:23,380
experiences in Armenia and 
everything since then, it's 

1805
01:30:23,380 --> 01:30:25,220
Divine Providence. 
I can't explain it any other 

1806
01:30:25,220 --> 01:30:27,500
way. 
So by investigating you know 

1807
01:30:27,500 --> 01:30:31,540
that subject further, I'm 
attempting to understand my own 

1808
01:30:31,540 --> 01:30:35,300
experiences as well. 
I like that very much. 

1809
01:30:35,500 --> 01:30:37,340
I think that we could all aspire
to that. 

1810
01:30:37,580 --> 01:30:40,060
Let's let's wrap with what do 
you see going on. 

1811
01:30:40,060 --> 01:30:42,860
You've got young kids or younger
kids and. 

1812
01:30:43,360 --> 01:30:45,360
Yeah, yeah, I got. 
I got two boys. 

1813
01:30:45,360 --> 01:30:48,360
They're getting older. 
One's an adult trying to kick 

1814
01:30:48,360 --> 01:30:51,160
them out of the house as quickly
as I can. 

1815
01:30:51,160 --> 01:30:52,400
Of course. 
They're entering the world. 

1816
01:30:52,400 --> 01:30:54,640
They're still under your under 
your purview, right? 

1817
01:30:55,120 --> 01:30:57,760
Yeah, yeah, go ahead. 
My oldest is 18. 

1818
01:30:57,760 --> 01:31:00,400
My my youngest is 15 right now, 
so. 

1819
01:31:00,520 --> 01:31:02,820
Okay, so older than mine. 
You got started earlier, by the 

1820
01:31:02,820 --> 01:31:03,860
way. 
That's a much smarter thing to 

1821
01:31:03,860 --> 01:31:06,980
do than what I've got going on. 
I've got, I've got one that I'm 

1822
01:31:07,020 --> 01:31:09,180
I'm a year older than you, and 
I've got one that's on the way 

1823
01:31:09,180 --> 01:31:11,660
still. 
So I'm about to start my clock 

1824
01:31:11,660 --> 01:31:13,580
at 0. 
Yeah, well, you go figure. 

1825
01:31:13,580 --> 01:31:16,620
You know, I I had kids, you 
know, accidentally the first 

1826
01:31:16,620 --> 01:31:17,340
one. 
Sure. 

1827
01:31:17,340 --> 01:31:19,100
I always, I always remind him of
that as well. 

1828
01:31:19,220 --> 01:31:21,420
Just say, you know try to 
remember you were an accident 

1829
01:31:22,140 --> 01:31:24,900
and then we have a laugh. 
But you know, it's, you know, I 

1830
01:31:24,900 --> 01:31:27,340
worked really hard to get myself
to a point. 

1831
01:31:27,950 --> 01:31:30,230
Where, you know, I was finally, 
like in a house where I said, 

1832
01:31:30,230 --> 01:31:32,310
okay, I could be a grandpa in 
this house, right? 

1833
01:31:32,830 --> 01:31:36,350
I was to that point in my life. 
And then I went and screwed it 

1834
01:31:36,350 --> 01:31:38,630
all up by becoming a journalist.
So, you know, I don't know. 

1835
01:31:38,670 --> 01:31:41,590
You know, I just try to give 
these kids the best example I 

1836
01:31:41,590 --> 01:31:42,750
can. 
Yeah, what do they say? 

1837
01:31:43,270 --> 01:31:45,590
Man makes plans and God laughs 
or something to that effect. 

1838
01:31:45,630 --> 01:31:49,510
Yeah, my youngest, my youngest, 
he's we, we have an inside joke 

1839
01:31:49,550 --> 01:31:53,870
where he actually drew a picture
of me, and I think it's sitting 

1840
01:31:53,870 --> 01:31:55,950
right behind me, actually, but 
he drew a picture of me. 

1841
01:31:56,420 --> 01:31:59,140
That that was taken from a photo
of me, you know outside of the 

1842
01:31:59,140 --> 01:32:03,500
Capitol and and he and he calls 
it Papa Insurrectionist. 

1843
01:32:03,500 --> 01:32:06,980
That's what we call it. 
Laughingly so. 

1844
01:32:07,300 --> 01:32:09,060
You know it's been I I love my 
boys. 

1845
01:32:09,060 --> 01:32:11,940
They're so good to me and 
they've they've always been wise

1846
01:32:11,940 --> 01:32:13,540
beyond their years in so many 
ways. 

1847
01:32:13,540 --> 01:32:16,740
You know life wasn't always 
perfect for them and especially 

1848
01:32:16,740 --> 01:32:22,340
not in the last 2 1/2 years. 
But I I'm consistently amazed. 

1849
01:32:22,380 --> 01:32:26,930
I feel blessed that. 
In such complex understandings 

1850
01:32:26,930 --> 01:32:30,890
of of the world or even people, 
they have a lot of wisdom. 

1851
01:32:31,810 --> 01:32:34,370
And I know, you know, you know, 
I don't know if they'll watch 

1852
01:32:34,370 --> 01:32:37,050
this and maybe I'll tell him to,
but you know, my oldest 

1853
01:32:37,050 --> 01:32:39,930
especially, I'm really hard on 
him, you know, trying to get him

1854
01:32:39,930 --> 01:32:43,170
to become more responsible, you 
know, go be an adult, be a 

1855
01:32:43,170 --> 01:32:47,010
productive member of society. 
Boy, it would, you know, but but

1856
01:32:47,050 --> 01:32:49,170
you know, that's just part of 
being a parent. 

1857
01:32:50,320 --> 01:32:52,760
But I do. 
I do value them so much. 

1858
01:32:52,760 --> 01:32:55,440
I mean, when we talk about 
these, these things that drive 

1859
01:32:55,440 --> 01:32:57,040
you as a human being, even as a 
journalist. 

1860
01:32:57,040 --> 01:32:59,560
So much of what I do as a 
journalist was just me trying to

1861
01:32:59,560 --> 01:33:01,960
explain the world to my boys, 
and it's still that way. 

1862
01:33:03,280 --> 01:33:04,800
It's such an important 
distinction there. 

1863
01:33:04,800 --> 01:33:07,360
And I think that I had somebody 
say something on Twitter the 

1864
01:33:07,360 --> 01:33:09,880
other day about, oh, we're still
just as valuable if we don't 

1865
01:33:09,880 --> 01:33:12,040
have children And we, you know, 
we we care about this country 

1866
01:33:12,040 --> 01:33:14,760
just as much and it's like, but 
do you because. 

1867
01:33:15,510 --> 01:33:18,230
You you're only on the planet 
for so long and the people that 

1868
01:33:18,230 --> 01:33:20,070
are going to inherit are really 
what I look forward to. 

1869
01:33:20,070 --> 01:33:22,750
What do you what do you see your
boys inheriting You got one 

1870
01:33:22,750 --> 01:33:25,270
that's that's ready to vote 
right now it sounds like and and

1871
01:33:25,270 --> 01:33:27,110
has an opportunity to do that 
another one that's going to be 

1872
01:33:27,110 --> 01:33:28,950
doing so in the next cycle right
afterwards. 

1873
01:33:29,030 --> 01:33:31,430
So they're they're about to be 
released and on their own. 

1874
01:33:31,430 --> 01:33:33,910
What do you what do you want 
America to look like and and 

1875
01:33:33,910 --> 01:33:35,590
what are they going to want 
America to live in Oh. 

1876
01:33:36,590 --> 01:33:41,320
Man. 
Well, it's like I try not to eat

1877
01:33:41,320 --> 01:33:44,880
too many black pills, but I do 
caution both of my boys about 

1878
01:33:44,880 --> 01:33:48,960
the world we're entering into. 
I think we're going to have to 

1879
01:33:48,960 --> 01:33:55,800
have some pretty monumental 
shifts and thinking for things 

1880
01:33:55,800 --> 01:33:57,920
to improve. 
Right now, things are not 

1881
01:33:57,920 --> 01:34:00,040
improving right now. 
It's my opinion that they are 

1882
01:34:00,040 --> 01:34:02,440
getting worse and the times are 
going to become more difficult. 

1883
01:34:03,360 --> 01:34:04,320
When? 
When. 

1884
01:34:04,830 --> 01:34:08,350
The scam demick started and I 
realized, you know, after the 

1885
01:34:08,350 --> 01:34:11,150
two weeks was up and they kept 
it going, that it wasn't going 

1886
01:34:11,150 --> 01:34:13,910
to be anything normal and that 
they were moving forward with an

1887
01:34:13,910 --> 01:34:16,270
agenda I had read about years 
before. 

1888
01:34:17,190 --> 01:34:19,750
I told the boys I said the 
world's going to get very tough 

1889
01:34:19,790 --> 01:34:22,630
and you guys need to get better,
faster and stronger. 

1890
01:34:22,750 --> 01:34:25,710
I said you need to read more 
books, need to educate 

1891
01:34:25,710 --> 01:34:29,350
yourselves, you need to get 
physically fit. 

1892
01:34:31,910 --> 01:34:33,750
You know, it's always a hard 
thing trying to tell your boys 

1893
01:34:33,750 --> 01:34:35,510
how to learn how to fight, 
especially when they're much 

1894
01:34:35,510 --> 01:34:38,350
more well behaved than I was at 
their age, you know. 

1895
01:34:39,870 --> 01:34:42,790
But this, you know, the reality 
we're moving into is going to be

1896
01:34:43,110 --> 01:34:45,590
difficult and it could get 
really, really bad really 

1897
01:34:45,590 --> 01:34:47,070
quickly. 
I think a lot of people don't 

1898
01:34:47,710 --> 01:34:50,310
understand how bad things can 
get. 

1899
01:34:50,390 --> 01:34:52,230
You know, hopefully they would 
look at what's going on in 

1900
01:34:52,230 --> 01:34:54,710
France a little bit, which I 
haven't had a lot of time to dig

1901
01:34:54,710 --> 01:34:58,150
into that particular subject. 
But you see that, I mean, 

1902
01:34:58,150 --> 01:35:00,350
society hangs on a thread all 
the time. 

1903
01:35:01,740 --> 01:35:04,380
So, you know, with my boys, as 
far as voting for sure, my 

1904
01:35:04,380 --> 01:35:07,700
oldest now being 18, I've told 
him, I said, well, I said, do me

1905
01:35:07,700 --> 01:35:10,780
a favor, and if you can't tell 
me about the people you're 

1906
01:35:10,780 --> 01:35:16,500
voting for, don't vote. 
You know, I think, you know, we 

1907
01:35:16,500 --> 01:35:18,620
all need to do better as 
citizens. 

1908
01:35:18,620 --> 01:35:20,500
So that's something I encourage 
them to do. 

1909
01:35:21,580 --> 01:35:24,020
I I know I kind of strayed away 
from the original question a 

1910
01:35:24,020 --> 01:35:27,460
little bit. 
There's just so many factors at 

1911
01:35:27,460 --> 01:35:30,130
play. 
For them in the world, I want to

1912
01:35:30,130 --> 01:35:31,490
leave. 
I mean, I always say that really

1913
01:35:31,490 --> 01:35:34,530
what I want to get to in my 
life, I still want to get to the

1914
01:35:34,530 --> 01:35:38,290
point where, you know, I'm 
putting orange peels in my mouth

1915
01:35:38,970 --> 01:35:41,890
like The Godfather and chasing 
my grandchildren around in the 

1916
01:35:41,890 --> 01:35:44,330
garden until I keel over from a 
heart attack. 

1917
01:35:44,850 --> 01:35:46,930
That's really what I want out of
life at this point. 

1918
01:35:48,850 --> 01:35:50,730
That seems like a a pretty noble
goal. 

1919
01:35:51,330 --> 01:35:52,450
Let's. 
Let's leave it on that. 

1920
01:35:52,450 --> 01:35:54,810
I hope you'll come back and talk
to us again as you do some more 

1921
01:35:54,810 --> 01:35:56,850
of the reporting and and now 
that you're kind of. 

1922
01:35:57,880 --> 01:36:00,000
You're out there generating. 
If you're doing 10 pieces a 

1923
01:36:00,000 --> 01:36:01,880
week. 
I think we got plenty to talk 

1924
01:36:01,880 --> 01:36:04,000
about in the future. 
I I wanted people to get a good 

1925
01:36:04,080 --> 01:36:06,880
grasp of who we're talking to 
when we bring people on. 

1926
01:36:06,880 --> 01:36:08,800
So I'm, I really appreciate you 
spending the day with us. 

1927
01:36:08,800 --> 01:36:10,920
Tell people what they can find 
you and then sort of the 

1928
01:36:10,920 --> 01:36:12,960
upcoming projects you mentioned 
you might be doing a podcast as 

1929
01:36:12,960 --> 01:36:15,160
well that's going to be a little
less serious. 

1930
01:36:15,640 --> 01:36:18,080
Yeah, you know, always I 
encourage people who are 

1931
01:36:18,080 --> 01:36:23,040
interested in January 6th to go 
and see what condemned U sa.org 

1932
01:36:23,040 --> 01:36:26,170
is doing. 
There's always something we, you

1933
01:36:26,170 --> 01:36:29,970
know, we produced a very, you 
know, extensive report for 

1934
01:36:29,970 --> 01:36:32,610
Congress called about the 
weaponization of justice in 

1935
01:36:32,610 --> 01:36:35,010
America. 
So that's that's part of what we

1936
01:36:35,010 --> 01:36:36,850
do. 
A lot of legal advocacy, their 

1937
01:36:37,010 --> 01:36:39,410
investigation, various other 
things. 

1938
01:36:39,410 --> 01:36:44,170
And you know, that's run 
entirely by support from from, 

1939
01:36:44,250 --> 01:36:46,010
you know, those who think it's 
important. 

1940
01:36:46,010 --> 01:36:49,050
So if you think it's important, 
please donate to that. 

1941
01:36:50,250 --> 01:36:52,290
The other thing you know, 
obviously follow, you know, my 

1942
01:36:52,290 --> 01:36:56,930
work, my stories at the Gateway 
Pundit like you say 2 a day, you

1943
01:36:56,930 --> 01:36:59,290
can find me there. 
Sean Bradley Witzman, free range

1944
01:36:59,290 --> 01:37:02,450
journalist. 
A variety of topics. 

1945
01:37:02,450 --> 01:37:05,170
I, I, I kind of hit a lot of 
different subjects so that's 

1946
01:37:05,170 --> 01:37:07,890
appreciated. 
And then social media at Sean 

1947
01:37:07,890 --> 01:37:11,450
Witzman on Twitter, or at Free 
Range journalist, on truth 

1948
01:37:11,450 --> 01:37:14,570
Social at free Range journalist 
on Instagram. 

1949
01:37:14,570 --> 01:37:18,350
Those are the main ones. 
And and like say if anybody has 

1950
01:37:18,350 --> 01:37:21,190
any stories out there, something
I will always say when I have a 

1951
01:37:21,190 --> 01:37:24,670
chance that you don't think is 
getting enough attention or you 

1952
01:37:24,670 --> 01:37:27,310
think is valuable, feel free to 
talk to me about it. 

1953
01:37:27,310 --> 01:37:29,790
I'm always I'm always open to 
explore. 

1954
01:37:29,950 --> 01:37:33,310
So you know that I think that's 
how we do it you know and when 

1955
01:37:33,310 --> 01:37:35,870
we just keep moving forward. 
Kyle, I really appreciate you 

1956
01:37:35,870 --> 01:37:37,230
having me on. 
It's been a pleasure, Sir. 

1957
01:37:38,070 --> 01:37:39,590
No, I enjoyed it. 
Pleasure was all mine. 

1958
01:37:39,870 --> 01:37:42,510
Thanks so much. 
We will do this again and folks.

1959
01:37:42,980 --> 01:37:44,660
Thank you for your time and 
listening. 

1960
01:37:44,780 --> 01:37:47,260
We'll go ahead and transition 
back out of here and do one of 

1961
01:37:47,260 --> 01:37:48,980
these five star views in just 
one second. 

1962
01:37:52,420 --> 01:37:54,780
All right, ladies and gentlemen,
that was today's Kyle Serraphin 

1963
01:37:54,780 --> 01:37:56,220
show. 
You have been listening to our 

1964
01:37:56,220 --> 01:37:58,140
show stream live from Liberty 
Hill, TX. 

1965
01:37:58,420 --> 01:38:00,780
Don't forget to like the video 
if you're watching it on 

1966
01:38:00,780 --> 01:38:04,900
rumble.com/kyle. 
Serraphin and Share a link from 

1967
01:38:04,900 --> 01:38:07,580
today's show to your favorite 
social media platform. 

1968
01:38:07,820 --> 01:38:10,620
Please consider subscribing to 
us on Rumble or wherever you get

1969
01:38:10,620 --> 01:38:12,700
your podcasts. 
The show will continue to grow 

1970
01:38:12,700 --> 01:38:14,660
because. 
To review the listeners and 

1971
01:38:14,660 --> 01:38:16,900
because of five star reviews 
just like this one, let's read 

1972
01:38:16,900 --> 01:38:19,380
this one right here comes a 
couple days back from Truckee 

1973
01:38:19,380 --> 01:38:23,780
117, entitled The Real American 
Heroes, stunning investigations 

1974
01:38:23,780 --> 01:38:25,980
of how the Deep State is trying 
to control this country. 

1975
01:38:25,980 --> 01:38:28,060
As a former law enforcement 
officer, I have worked and 

1976
01:38:28,060 --> 01:38:30,340
trained with guys like Kyle who 
are the real deal. 

1977
01:38:30,580 --> 01:38:32,540
It's not just Kyle's opinion, 
but he comes with the proof and 

1978
01:38:32,540 --> 01:38:34,220
facts just like a real 
investigator would. 

1979
01:38:34,780 --> 01:38:37,020
Again, Truckee 117. 
Thanks so much, Chucky. 

1980
01:38:37,020 --> 01:38:39,420
We do appreciate those things. 
And I do want to say thanks to 

1981
01:38:39,420 --> 01:38:41,620
my guest Sean. 
Folks, you can find all of his 

1982
01:38:41,620 --> 01:38:44,940
follow all of his information in
the show notes. 

1983
01:38:44,940 --> 01:38:47,180
So click through there on his 
social media and check him out 

1984
01:38:47,340 --> 01:38:50,780
on thegatewaypundit.com. 
Our show is only possible 

1985
01:38:50,780 --> 01:38:53,660
because of some of the hard work
and the technical skills of our 

1986
01:38:53,660 --> 01:38:55,300
producer, Ryan. 
You saw some of his work today. 

1987
01:38:55,380 --> 01:39:01,100
You can follow Ryan on Twitter 
at Ryan Madda MATTA Media. 

1988
01:39:01,560 --> 01:39:03,960
On Twitter there again. 
And then also our opening theme 

1989
01:39:03,960 --> 01:39:07,120
was composed and performed by my
brother, Casey Seraphin, a very 

1990
01:39:07,120 --> 01:39:08,560
talented musician, and I'm 
grateful. 

1991
01:39:08,560 --> 01:39:10,120
He's. 
Let me use some of his work here

1992
01:39:10,120 --> 01:39:12,000
today. 
Thanks so much for joining us 

1993
01:39:12,000 --> 01:39:14,560
today folks. 
We will see you again on 

1994
01:39:14,600 --> 01:39:17,800
Wednesday. 
Thanks for listening to The Kyle

1995
01:39:17,800 --> 01:39:21,240
Seraphin Show streamed live 
Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays 

1996
01:39:21,240 --> 01:39:25,600
on rumble.com/kyle Seraphin. 
Follow Kyle on Twitter and True 

1997
01:39:25,600 --> 01:39:28,000
Social at Kyle Seraphin.