It's righteous indignation where we should be righteously
indignant. We should be angry, but should
be the type of anger where, like, you don't need to eat, you
don't need to sleep. Where like walk through a
burning building and you can't get burned because the inferno
that is burning inside of your heart is so much hotter than any
flames that are outside. Like the only way to make it
through something like this is to to be animated by this
righteous indignation despite it's not vengeance, it's
justice, it's goodness, it's beauty, it's love.
All interviewers have their own style, and my style is to try to
get to the point and to be intensely curious.
And the key to interviewing is listening.
Take a look behind the curtain with a real whistleblower and
American patriot. Prepare to embrace the
uncomfortable truth because this program has no time for
comforting lies. Here is civil liberties
enthusiast, Second Amendment defender and recovering FBI
agent Kyle Seraphim. Well, hello, my friends, and
welcome to the Sunday Sit down. Kind of a special edition that
we do of the Kyle Seraphin Show only on the weekends.
And yeah, that voice you just heard a second ago was my
father. It's a family show.
We're going to be talking about something really important,
family's fatherhood and walking without fear even when you know,
you're up against something incredibly dangerous like the
Department of Justice. We're going to be doing an
interview with a suspendable friend.
Doctor Etan Heim is going to join us momentarily.
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Let's see what's going on here. On today's Sunday, sit down.
We're talking to legendary suspendable Dr. I think you're
you're the only doctor in the suspendable crew.
My friend H Anne Heim. We're going to be talking about
whatever we want. How about that?
That works for me. How are you feeling buddy?
You know. It's it's kind of weird because
you know, after something like this happens where you know,
you're facing 10 years in prison and then one minute you're
facing this like behemoth, you know, the federal leviathan.
And then the next minute your case is dismissed.
You know, you, I feel the same way as I did before.
And I think it's because, you know, you put on the shell of
like protection, you know, like this barrier against like any
hope or, or future. And I think that's maybe slowly
coming off. So it's like I'm, I'm still kind
of in warm mode because that's how I was for so long.
Like my wife and I, you know, both of us feel no different.
How's your baby doing? She's doing great, man.
She's doing. She's growing like a weed.
She's happy as can be. She's smiling.
She's playing. Yeah, it's it's a wonderful
thing to see her grow up. What's the coolest milestone in
the last couple days you've seen?
So, you know, it was, it was huge.
She was almost rolling over, like you could tell she was
trying to, but she would roll over.
She couldn't get her other arm under her to complete the roll.
She was getting like 85% there, but you couldn't get that one
maneuver. So both my wife and I, she had
just gotten back from Austin and she was able to pull off the
roll with both of us there and we both saw it for the first
time. So it was a huge milestone.
That's awesome. Yeah, I remember that when my
first daughter. It's awesome.
Yeah. It's really cool to watch.
Yeah, I just watched my 18th month old climb a six foot tall
structure on her own with no help.
Today. Yeah, that's awesome.
Yeah. It's freakish.
Actually, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because it's like a six foot
tall thing. You think if they fall off, you
know, but at some point you have to let them do it, you know,
That's, that's part of life. It's dad's job to watch that, by
the way. Moms.
Can't do it. Yeah, yeah.
Almost to put hands on. Yeah, Steel Reserve, you know.
To just stand by, be ready to catch.
Yeah, quick reactions and even if they fall right, just make
sure they fall properly. And even if they have a broken
bone, it's like, you know, it's not the worst I can have.
I love it. I love it.
This is that that sick version of like if.
If it's broken, I can fix it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's what you get for being a surgeon.
I know, yeah, 'cause I know what it is to have kids really messed
up, you know, 'cause I've, I've taken care of enough of them,
you know, so it's, I can identify the situations, you
know, for the most part, that put them in, you know, danger.
I get it. Let's do the beginning, shall
we? Should we go to the beginning?
Yeah, yeah. All right, you've been on the
program previously, but we've had a lot of audience join us.
Why don't you tell people who you are, where you grew up, and
what? What do people recognize about
you when they meet you professionally now, if if at
all? Yeah, So my name, you know, it's
Eitan Heim. I grew up in Florida.
You know, I was born in New York, only lived there for a
couple of months and then moved to Philadelphia and then
Mississippi, but spend most of my life in Florida.
And yeah, it was like the perfect childhood, right?
I had two parents, a family that I loved.
You know, my dad's a doctor, and I saw the the way that his
patients had treated him when they saw him in public.
And that's what I wanted for myself when I decide to pursue
medicine. So that's why I ultimately
pursued in college. I went to USF in Tampa and then
medical school at Floor Atlantic University in Boca Raton.
And then I did my surgical training in general surgery at
Baylor College of Medicine in Houston, TX.
You know, this is one of the most prestigious surgery
programs in the country. You know, this is where heart
transplants were Lvads or trauma surgery was was invented, You
know, one of the places where it's most known for that.
And to be accepted at that program was a huge deal for me
because I came from a kind of a non prestigious background.
But I worked my ass off to score in like the 99th percentile in
all my board exams, you know, to graduate like the top of my
class. So, and then, you know, for your
second question, I would say the thing that people recognize the
most about me now is just that I'm an average guy, even after
everything that's happened, you know, you know, my patients
recognize me as a surgeon, you know, who's going to take care
of them. And that's mostly it.
I've never, I've never been recognized in public.
Never. Isn't that funny?
Which is I, I and I kind of prefer it that way.
I mean, it's crazy that during my case, you know, we'll talk
about it later. But like that there was a gag
order and gag orders are used for people like, you know, who
are universally known. But like I I've never even been
recognized publicly and my neighbor has have no idea what's
going on with me, you know? That's I, that's probably the
weirdest thing to be involved in a national level struggle.
Would it be fair to call that your struggle national?
Yeah. For sure, for sure.
Right. And so there's a Twitterverse,
there's there are journalists that are competing for your
attention and for your scoops and they want to know, they want
to interview you and they want to fly you out or come down and
set up a whole production studio.
And like, it's your neighbor said like crazy.
Yeah, yeah. And, and yeah.
Like, like we were filming an interview with Jordan Peterson,
and this was after the first indictment initially came out.
And there was like this whole production crew at my house.
My neighbors were like, what the Hell's going on over there?
They thought it was maybe baby pictures, but no, it was.
I had just been charged with four felonies and was facing 10
years in prison. And, you know, they were cool
about it. And, you know, they're ended up
being really good friends. But yeah, most people just don't
know it because it's kind of like a, a niche story, like most
and most people can't, you know, because my name is kind of odd.
They know me as Eitan, even though it's spelled Ethan.
So you know, the there's kind of couple layers between like me
being recognized and then the story itself.
Do you think, yeah, you think your name is the marketing
problem here? Is that what's going on?
I think so, yeah. And I'll only correct my name if
I, if I know the person for more than like a week.
So like, you know, I I've known you for quite some time, you
know, I would, yeah. I would consider you a friend.
And yeah. So it's not Eton instead of
Ethan. It's just a it's a Hebrew name
spelled in German phonetics. That's a move.
What? Let's talk about what motivated
you to really come forward with what you saw.
First of all, why don't you tell people what you saw?
I know too much of your story, so I'm not going to assume
anything. What did you see?
And then what drove you to think like, hey, I got to make this
thing public? Yeah.
So I was just a surgical resident working at Baylor
College of Medicine. And one of the hospitals that we
spend the most time at is Texas Children's Hospital as part of
like the Baylor College of Medicine academic consortium,
right, Because you rotate at multiple hospitals.
So in 2022, the hospital had issued a very public statement
saying that they were no longer going to prescribe or
participate in the transgender interventions.
And they said this because they were going to they they were
doing it to avoid potential criminal ramifications, right?
So that's a very specific reason.
And the reason they released that because they said it, OK,
it was yeah, yeah. They said we're stopping all
transgender interventions because of the potential legal
ramifications, criminal legal ramifications.
So they, it was like very clear. And the reason they said it, it
was because a few weeks before the EG of Texas, Ken Paxton had
issued an opinion saying that these interventions could be
investigated as criminal child abuse, which they are.
So it makes sense why the hospital would release this
statement, right? A couple of weeks later that,
all right, in Texas, the AG saying this is criminal child
abuse, we're shutting down the program, right?
So in the months that followed, I saw that not only was it
untrue, the hospital had continued the transgender
program, but in actuality, they had expanded it into a
multidisciplinary clinic, right, Including psychology,
psychiatry, general Pediatrics, endocrinology, surgery, social
work, case management. And you know, they were speaking
at the hospital's most prestigious lecture series,
right? And, and I saw that in January
of 2023, because it was only in mid 2022, a few months after
this statement, that one of my colleagues even told me about
them doing one of the transgender surgeries to implant
a PV blocking device into a child.
And I was like, no way, that's true.
It can't be possible. And that's when I found out
about their statement from a few months before in March of 2022.
So I just didn't believe it for the next couple of months that
like it's possible that this amazing hospital I was working
at, Texas Children's was capable of lying about something so
significant. Like I just didn't believe it.
So, you know, it was only in January of 2023 that I saw the
lectures from the grand rounds lecture series that I was like,
man, there's this is blatant, right?
Like they're talking about how they're concealing what they're
doing from the public and, and from the overseeing authorities
in Texas. So it was at that point in
January 2023 that I knew it was my duty to blow the whistle on
what was happening and it took me 5 months of reaching out to
journalists to get in touch with Christopher Ruffo, who ended up
releasing the story in May of 2023.
How did you go about selecting journalists to talk to?
It was just kind of who I listened to on podcasts, so
like. Yeah.
What does that look like as you reached out?
So it's just cold emails. I would just find an e-mail of
like an organization. I want, I want to say who
because I want to put anyone on blast.
Understand, understand from their point of view.
I'm just some random guy. Like they have no reason to
believe like what I'm saying, right?
And you know, I just realized it's kind of dark.
Do you want me to turn on light or anything?
Yeah, throw a light on. OK, so we got a little bit more
light on the subject. Did you ever talk to to Chris
Rufo about why he responded to your cold e-mail?
Yeah, I so I yeah, So what that looked like, it was just be me
sending out emails to people. And most times I wouldn't get a
response. I would just keep on sending
emails. But the reason that Christopher
Ruffo, yeah, we talked about it and he said because it was a it
was a huge story. You have the biggest Children's
Hospital in the world lying about a program that's
manipulating, mutilating and sterilizing healthy young
children. So was it?
Was it the right audience and the right message?
You sent it to the right guy that was going to care about
that story. Is that what you think happened?
Yeah, I believe it was God's Providence.
Truly, I believe it was God's Providence because so it was
only in like mid-May, like May 10th, 11th that he responded to
my e-mail. And it turned out that the story
was released on May 16th, 2023. I had no idea at the time, but
the Texas Senate was voting on a bill, SB14, which was going to
ban these interventions on children, right?
So a day after our story came out, in a bill that was passed
with bipartisan support, the conduct that we had exposed that
the hospital was lying about became illegal in the state of
Texas. And partially in response to our
story coming out the day before, because this was a bill that was
passed with bipartisan support, they were Democrats who voted in
favor of it because they didn't know that this was happening in
their districts. But our story showed that it was
definitively happening in their areas.
So have you ever had an example in your life that was such an
obvious to you, or a moment of God's Providence where just the
the the circumstances lined up so truly that there was no other
way for you to explain it to yourself?
Yeah, So this whole story with me blowing the whistle, there's
been so many instances of God's Providence that I believe the
whole from beginning to end that that God's hand has been guiding
it. Because, you know, I'll kind of
get into this later in the story.
But there were so many times where we were going to give up,
where we were completely broke, where we had, we were completely
desperate and we had nothing else to do.
And we were going to be like, you know what, we're done.
We have to give this up. And then at the last possible
minute, something happens to get us through that moment.
But that that day when the story came out and then the law was
passed a day after, yeah, that was one of those moments.
That was definitely one of those moments where I it was I, I
thoroughly believed that it was God's hand who is guiding us.
Did you have moments when you were doubting reaching out to a
journalist that even telling people about this was the right
thing to do? Yeah, well, 'cause I had given
up. So I had tried reaching out to
journalists from January to April, right?
And then there was something I saw in May, like in April, May,
that I was like, I have to reach out to journalists.
It was too crazy. And I, you know, it's kind of in
the weeds. I haven't really talked about
this, but it was something called an Oregon inventory,
right? Where in the TCH medical records
the most important demographic information was like the
patient's name, their code status, like if you do CPR on
them, like the family address, like the the contact
information, which is critical if you have a sick kid and you
have to contact the family. That demographic information,
which is usually in the top left hand corner of the patient's
chart was replaced with something called the gender and
Sexual Identity Smart form. So what this is, is that this is
like an intake form for kids in the hospital where they're asked
about their gender identity and they can, you know, this is
like, this is crazy. This from the Human Rights
Council, right? This was initiated by the Human
Rights Council as part of their, you know, their human rights
score, whatever their the corporate index is for an Epic
healthcare system, which is the EMR was the one who was
integrating this. So TCH had integrated this
dystopian smart form into their medical records.
So yeah, they would ask him, like, what's your gender
identity for a kid who's like, five years old, six years old?
Then they would have like, an organ inventory.
It was actually called organ inventory.
And the whole point would be to, you know, ask the children, what
organs have you had surgically removed or altered?
Like, you know, did you have your penis removed or your
breasts removed or your uterus removed?
So this is part of like, from what I perceived, the fact that
it had replaced the most important demographic
information. This was part of the intake
form. And it's like, Oh my God.
Like he. So I had what?
Yeah, yeah. And I just, I kind of stumbled
upon it by accident, you know? OK, so so people understand a
normal hospital intake, which you've done a bunch of, and I've
got a little bit of experience. It usually is like, hi, what's
your name? Do you have insurance or, you
know, somewhere we're going to bill, you know, do you have a
DNR on file? Exactly.
If something happens to you, do you have someone who would make
your medical decisions? You know, like critical things
that we needed to know right now in the first few seconds of
meeting you? Something bad's going on.
Yeah, and that's what goes in the top left hand corner.
But that was replaced by the gender and sexual identity smart
form, which is like, holy crap. Man, why do you think they did
that? What like what would what would
make somebody do that if you had to speculate?
So it's sick. It's absolutely sick.
Because to ask a child about an organ inventory is like the most
dystopian thing I could have ever imagined.
Like, you know, when I talked to my colleagues about this, they
were, I was like, hey, man, like click on this part of the chart.
This is crazy. Look.
And my colleagues, it was the thing that shocked them the
most. They were like, wait, this is
where the most important demographic information is like
their DNR status, like their code status.
But this is where like there's the gender and sexual identity.
Smart form is not like holy crap man.
Did they? I think the same thing that you
did. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But I mean, of course, you know, like not.
Everybody's going to do something.
But they thought that this was a radical move.
I. Mean this was hard to believe.
I mean people didn't believe it unless I showed it to them.
They were like, because it wasn't only TCH, this was every
epic system in the country, right?
Epic is a like a records keeping system.
Yeah, Epic. So Epic is the largest
electronic medical record system in the entire country.
Like the biggest one, right? Is there any OK?
Is there any innocent reason that they could have done this?
Oh, no, no, I mean, well, they would say for them it's
innocent, like to ask a kid about their sexual identity when
they're like six years old. But no, no, I it's this is sick,
right? Because this is a medical chart,
right? And if you put a different sex
in that form, that changes it on their medical chart, which is
like critically important to know for a surgeon, because if
you're going to take someone for surgery, you have to know if
it's a male or a female because you have to do a pregnancy test.
You have to make sure that there's certain anatomy like you
might encounter when you're opening someone's abdomen,
right? Like a uterus or ovaries, you
know, so if. You were getting into a surgical
suite and you've got a emergency patient who's non verbal and
they are improperly identified. You've prepped and you go in and
you're expecting like a nine year old or a 10 year old girl
for an abdominal surgery and it's a nine year old boy.
It's marked improperly. What would that do for you?
Well, you know, it's, it's hard to express the level of kind of,
it throws you into a place of like being out at sea where
you're lost, right? Where like everything you
thought you're like your, your decision making is now called
into question because such a critical detail is now
completely different, right? Like, of course, you kind of do
your job and make sure everything is safe.
But like, it's terrifying to think that I would ever be in
that situation because it's like such a change in the template.
And in surgery, it's important that like you make decisions
based off like known information.
And the two things we always report in surgery is age and
sex. You know, 61 year old male, 22
year old female, it's always age and sex.
If one of those things is different than what you thought,
it throws you into a loop, right?
That's not safe. And you can get into if, if you
get too far into it, you can mistake an ovary for an Abscess.
I mean, you would have to really get far into it.
Like, you know, that'd be a big problem.
Sure, like medical mishaps. How many?
How many medical mishaps? Surgical slash malpractice
cases, You know, wrong amputations.
How many of those happen a year in the United States?
In terms of like the critical failures of like wrong site
surgeries, they happen not that often, but they happen, yeah.
Because I think everybody's heard like that when we know
people put markings, it's Sharpies, it's tape.
Like, there's a lot of things that go into not having that
kind of screw up, yeah. It's easy for things to go wrong
when information is improperly presented to the doctor or the
surgeon. That's when things go wrong.
It's when things are. So it's like, especially in kids
hospital, this is critically important, right?
This is like the most critical information and it was being
manipulated by ideology. And these are the people, you
know, correct me if I'm wrong here, but the children, they are
going to have the smallest like obvious physiological
differences when you're looking. They don't have second, you
know, secondary sex characteristics.
So it may not be nearly as obvious.
They may not even have hair of the same length or long enough.
Like they may not present even just because their age, they may
not develop things that we would normally associate with male and
female sort of patterns. Yeah, yeah.
And that's that's important thing too, is like in order to
properly identify the anatomy, right?
Like you have to go in understanding the Physiology
you're operating on because that serves as a a map of the area
that you're going into, right? Just like if you go into a city,
right? Like you want a map of that
city. If you go into a Chicago, you
don't want a map of Milwaukee, right?
If you do, you might run into some problems like if you're
familiar with both, right, like Chicago and Milwaukee, you
probably navigated. But like if you're, if it's an
emergency, right, then like that's when things can go wrong.
Sure. All right, let's talk about, I
have to imagine that your wife and you were having some kind of
a conversation about how you go forward with this.
What? What were those conversations
like? Yeah, we had a lot of
conversations because we went through the whole process
together. It was my wife who had found the
statement from TCH in March of 2022.
Because I came home one day right in like mid 2022.
And I was like, hey, like someone told me that they were
implanting these puberty blocking device in this 11 year
old kid and that this kid was positive.
It was a girl positive. They wanted to have more
surgery, that they never wanted to have children, that multiple
family members were transgender. And it's like, whoa, major red
flags there. But the day that person had had
that note written, you know, outlining all that information
was a day the child had surgery, right?
So like, when all the red flags are there, they're still taking
a surgery, you know? So I tell my wife about these
things and other things I saw over the next couple of weeks.
And that's when she started looking into it, too.
Because both of us didn't even know that there was a
transgender program at Texas Children's Hospital.
We didn't believe it, right? So she looked it up and found
it. And she told me both of us were
like, no, it's like, can't be true.
But then as time progressed and January 2023 was critical date
where there was the grand rounds lecture, but then also a Zoom
conference where like 150 medical students at Baylor
College of Medicine had a Zoom conference called Gender
Affirming Care in Minors, right? And we're like, this has to be a
joke. No way this is possible.
And it had a bunch of people who were in the transgender program
at TCH. So we recorded that Zoom
conference, which was part of the story that was initially
released in Rufo's original reporting, where they talked
specifically how they were concealing everything from,
like, state authorities, how they wouldn't give parents a
hard copy of the notes because that would, like, threaten, you
know, them being exposed. And my wife and I were talking
about it and we knew that it was the right thing for us to do
because like I, I couldn't live with myself if I, I knew this
was happening and I didn't do anything about it, right?
I couldn't look at myself in the mirror, especially because we
just got married a few months before, right, in August of
2022. And like, we were going to bring
a kid into this world. And we did, you know, we were
talking about her earlier and like, what kind of world are we
going to bring her into if I just sit by and let this this,
this egregious, you know, ethical violation of the world's
biggest Children's Hospital just allowed to go, you know,
completely under the radar. Like I had to do something about
it. Sometimes I think people think
it sounds fantastical to have a conversation like that where
you're like, you know, how are we going to look our daughter in
the eye? Was that something you guys
really had that conversation where you just said, what are we
going to do when she's older? Explicitly, yeah.
No, no, I kept a journal at the time right after COVID started.
I kept adrenaline because I knew things were getting very crazy.
So I have like, you know, I, I like to read it, you know, like
my old entries because I see how like everything changed over
time because my whole world had turned upside down, right?
Like, I see the people I once respected turn into like these
monsters, right, who are letting people die and not saying
anything about it. And like, we're just supposed to
sit there like nothing is happening.
That's crazy. And like, I wrote all this down.
And, And so like in the journal, but also in our conversations,
yes, we had said we cannot live with each other or we cannot
live with ourselves. We cannot bring our child into
this world if we don't do this. That is what we said to each
other, because that is what was true.
What kind of dangers did you guys see?
She's got a background in law, obviously, so that's worth
explaining. She's a federal prosecutor.
She works Department of Justice. Yeah.
I mean, she had just gotten
hired at the time She went to, like, Columbia Law School in
Georgetown. She's brilliant.
I mean, she's not very proud of her alma mater.
You know, it's like a communist training camp.
Granted. How did she even come out of
that? Because that's one thing.
I hear people talking about going to law school today.
And I've actually had friends say, hey, I think I want to go
to law school and they're conservatives.
How did she survive going through that?
And was she quiet? Was she strong willed still or?
Yeah, yeah. So both of us, you know, kind of
went through our own transitions because both of us were kind of
like your typical, you know, kind of run in the middle libs,
you know, like because that's the water we swam in growing up.
It's the social milieu is geared towards being a liberal.
But of course, like both of us in our early 20s, mid 20s, we
kind of gradually start opening our eyes and, you know, moving
towards the conservative side. So even when she was at
Columbia, she was in Columbia in 2016 when they had the full
meltdown during Trump's first inauguration, when they all went
on strike and said we can't take our finals.
Like she was there. And yeah, she said like, you
know, she was, she was cautiously outspoken in small
circles, just like many of us were.
And which we realized was this was the the fault, like the
cause of our ultimate downfall because because all of us were
so quiet, we had led to our own destruction, you know?
What do you think? What do you think made you turn
a corner? What what made you say like,
hey, you know what? Maybe some of these Lib ideas
are not for me. It was Israel when I was in my
early 20s, because my family's from Israel, right?
So it's like, you know, I was kind of your basic liberal guy,
right? But then I saw how the media was
lying about it Was one of the intifadas, one of the conflicts
in the early 20 tens. I think it was like 22,010 or
2011 where you had one of the the escalations.
You have missiles go back and forth.
And I saw how it was being reported and I saw like, oh,
man, like none of this is true, right?
It's like, Oh yeah, like 3 Palestinians killed, you know,
in altercation when it was like 3 suicide bombers were killed by
the IDF when they were trying to run into like a kindergarten,
you know. So it's.
It's hard to see something like that and then not realize what
the propaganda is. So that that kind of made you
start questioning, is that right?
Yeah, yeah, slowly over time. But even after I became like a
conservative, I was still kind of like, you're running the
mill, like Bush, Cheney, like conservative, right.
I was like where? You now hold on.
Wait. Where are you now?
Oh, I'm, I'm like, I'm like, I guess you could say like ultra
MAGA, you know, I'm like, I'm like to the right of Cash Patel,
you know? Yeah, that's great.
Yeah, yeah. You're.
So, OK, you've gone into the Attila the Hunt camp.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well within the Attila, the Hunt
camp. OK, let me let me float a couple
of conquer Mexico all the way down to the Panama Canal.
Yay or. Nay, I would say hard nay
because just just in terms of logistics.
Do you think they all need to be Americans?
If they want to be Americans, make them all Americans.
Are you in there? OK?
My wife is there. I'm just I'm just asking.
Is it? Yeah.
From. I had a recovering Lib go that
route, so I just wanted to see how far.
OK. You got some ways to go then.
Yeah, 'cause I, I think that the Mexican travelling, right, Yeah,
'cause I, I actually, you know, I was reading about the Mexican
Revolution in the early 1900s and you know, how, how they had
fought for, you know, independence and, and they had
undergone multiple revolutions. And, you know, these are people
who have a history. They deserve their own country
and but we, you know, we also deserve if they're messing with
our border that we have to exact revenge on them, you know, in
whatever way possible to secure our borders.
So it's pretty balanced. I'm just saying, oh, we'll have
you talk to my wife. She'll convince you.
I don't know why. I don't know why she thinks that
way. She just told me that years ago.
And I and I went, oh, oh, dear Lord, what have we done?
That was right about the time she was asking me if Michelle
Obama was a man and I was. Like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's that's a open, open debate.
Open debate, Yeah, Yeah, we had that conversation tonight
actually about Alex Jones and. Yeah.
She she said Hulu and Alex Jones may have radicalized.
Her, which makes me crack up, yeah.
OK, So you guys have this discussion.
Your wife's a prosecutor, a brilliant lawyer, went has a
great pedigree. She had to see some danger
there. Yeah.
Well, you know, actually, no, she didn't see any danger
because. So when we finally got in touch
with Brufo in May, it was clear it like, so I worked at the
hospital, I was doing surgery there.
All the information I was releasing to Rufo, all the
redacted patient information was after it was redacted, de
identified patient information. This is something that is like a
part of like the medical profession, like in journals, in
medical journals, right? In medical conferences.
This is like what you include in like this is it goes from
private health information to once it's redacted to de
identified information so and therefore compliant with the law
take. An example, if you could, can
you give it a? Because this is obviously like a
real process that people go through all the time to be able
to write journals and studies and so on, right?
So for example like you go to. Talk about me specifically.
OK, So if you want to you know specific identifiers, I'll give
them to you. And then what would look like
redacted? Yeah.
So say like I'm doing a surgery on you, right?
It's a robotic surgery. I'm taking out your gallbladder
and I have a video of your surgery, right in the video it
has your name, your birthday and your MRN number, right.
It was a very interesting case. You had abnormal anatomy because
you had abnormal anatomy, it's pertinent to present at a
surgical conference, right? I have to you know, it's then
you was. It hyper muscular physique is
that. Exactly.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hyper muscular gallbladder,
right. You can de identify this
information right and present it at a conference.
So you're going to say 43 year old male unusual Physiology, cut
off that piece and what else would be with it?
Yeah, a 40, yeah. And and I I don't even say like
the age, it's like a male in its 40s, right?
Yeah. So at that point it becomes de
identified, right. But Even so, like in the case of
of that surgery, like I would have to get your consent first,
right? But in this case, this was like
the basic information like basic like like schedules like things
like that that didn't have any private health information.
This was like hospital data about what interventions they
were doing so because. Identifying.
Even if you had it, you wouldn't be able to ID who the person was
because it's universal. Yeah, exactly.
Yeah. So this is information that's
included in like when they give reports to like the CDC or the
NIH, right? They give de identified patient
information to these institutions in order to do
like, you know, analysis of like which diseases are present, you
know, like in certain populations, right?
This like de identified patient information, right?
It goes from private health information to de identified,
which is like a legal thing. And my wife saw that and it's
like. Is that something you train how
to do in medical school? If you wanted to write or do
studies, you learn how to do that.
All the time. All the time.
Yeah. So this is like and for me it's.
Like, see this being like a, like a, like a virtual training
that you're getting slideshow presentations and clicking off
on every year or something like that, Yeah.
Yeah. It's like what constitutes
private health information versus non private health
information, right. Like if it, if it's like a
person's surgery, like very specific for that person, you
have to get their consent beforehand.
If it's basic data, right, like hospital data that everyone has
access to, no, you don't have to get that person's consent
beforehand because it doesn't have any private health
information like that's unique for that person.
Whereas in the surgery, like in your case, it has the kind of
individualized description of your surgery that's a little bit
different, you know, So it's like you have different levels
for different levels of data. And for different releases for
purposes things like that, yeah. Yeah.
OK. In in this case too, part of
HIPAA, there's a whistle blower statute.
If a hospital is participating in misconduct and especially if
there are legal ramifications, which as I mentioned before, the
hospital had acknowledged themselves.
They said they were shutting this down because of potential
criminal ramifications, right? So the hospital's still doing
what they acknowledge themselves as potentially criminal.
I have an obligation to report that I can't do it to the
hospital because they're the ones who are complicit.
I can't do it to I, we actually tried reaching out to the
attorney general's office, you know, that was going to be part
of trial. So we kind of held that detail
back. We were going to have them
testify because I was a like a whistle blower for the A G's
office. What is what is the pathway?
So in federal service, the way I went, there's like a, a
prescriptive pathway that says you must go to one of the
following appropriate reporting authorities.
What does that look like, if any?
Yeah. So in, in medicine, the the
pathway for reporting as a whistleblower is the pathway for
making sure you get fired. Yeah.
So like the pathway they have is like if you report to them,
they'll fire you. Yeah.
So that that and everyone knows that, right.
Like the the pathway for medical whistleblowers is the pathway to
get fired. So you know.
What you tell your supervisor in the hospital.
Yeah, then they fire you. Yeah.
And then they fired you. They they fixed the problem.
Yeah, exactly. So it's like, of course we're
not going to pursue that route because that's like a very bad
route. Is that theoretically protected?
Is there some sort of legal statutory protection with no.
Yeah, Yeah. I mean, theoretically it's
protected, but that didn't stop TCH from firing Vanessa Cibitch,
the other TCH whistleblower. She still.
Yeah, I mean she. And is there any punishment
other than like a civil penalty later?
Is there any criminal penalty for them doing so?
Yes, there is. Yeah.
For for firing whistleblowers, there is a major.
That's a major. Deal.
Yeah. Is anyone picking up her case to
to push that? Yeah, Yeah, very good.
OK. So you chose not to do the route
that is prescribed because that was a clear failure route for
you in your mind. So you've decided that if you go
the route that is prescribed by law, you're going to get fired
and it doesn't go anywhere anyway.
And did you have any other backup plan other than reach out
to journalists that you followed?
Yeah. So that's when we reached out to
the Attorney General's office and you know, Grant, they were
in kind of disarray because of the impeachment issue.
I think that was kind of in the beginning process.
That's when Ken Paxton was being impeached by the by the Texas
Legislature. Yeah, yeah, cuz.
So the the day the story came out on May 16th, 2023, it was a
couple of days after that that the AG announced his
investigation into the hospital and then he was impeached.
Perfect. Yeah, yeah.
Do we think those were related? I think so.
I think it was part of it because the medical lobby and
especially in Houston, right, Texas is oil and medicine.
The Texas Medical Center is one of the most powerful lobbies in
the state of Texas. So I I think that there's a good
chance of playing a role. Interesting.
OK. So AG's office, what was the
reception there? You said they were in disarray.
Yeah. So we tried calling a couple
times but they didn't answer. You know, that was, that was the
ideal situation for us because my wife called, right?
She left a message, multiple messages, and then we just
didn't get a response. And then that's when we reached
out to Rufo. What did that first contact
sound like? So it was kind of, it was with
one of the people who was working for Rufo kind of like a
like a accessory role, you know, just to make sure that I wasn't
some crazy person who was kind of a telling like ABS story.
So we went through like a verification process, like a
very thorough verification process.
And that's when, you know, maybe a day or two go by verifying the
veracity of the story. And then we go through a process
of making sure that the information was correct, that
this was indeed happening and that there wasn't like something
else where the hospital actually said, oh, no, we are restarting
the program, right? Because, you know, that's one
thing that I always kind of thought in the back of my mind,
like maybe they said they restarted somewhere, but like,
you know, they went through it, their lawyers went through it to
make sure everything was kosher. And once they did, then it was
released. What was the first thing that
happened when the story went live?
First of all, how did you feel when the story went live?
You know, I was so busy with residency that like in my little
world, everything was was like the same.
No one even knew the story came out and we were working in Texas
Children's Hospital at the time. How long did it take for that
storm to hit the hospital? It it didn't no like like, you
know, in terms of like the media bubble, it didn't hit the
hospital. No, as crazy as that may sound,
no one in my like immediate sphere like had known about the
story. Like on the ground, like the
residents, the doctors, no one knew about the story.
No one and but in the news like so in my little world, it was
like you had this. It was like an explosion, but
like everything outside was completely normal.
But in in the world of like Christopher Ruffo and the news,
this thing is like blowing up right, because it's all over the
news. He's going on Laura Ingraham and
I'm still, I'm just the anonymous source for the story.
And then the law gets passed the very next day and it's like,
holy crap, Like how? How much crazier can it get?
And then another whistle blower comes out a couple days after
that, right. Vanessa Civis, she was anonymous
at the time too, but she worked in the clinic at the time and
hadn't seen the horrors first hand herself.
So she and she saw my story on May 16th, reached out to Rufo in
the same way I did, completely anonymously told her side of the
story about how like what was happening to these kids and
everything that was going on. You know, she was in the clinic
rooms with doctors themselves. And then the AG announces an
investigation and then the hospital CEO, Mark Wallace, for
the second time in like 1516 months, says he's going to shut
down the program in accordance with SB14.
And for me, it's like, all right, I achieved my goal as a
whistle blower, time to get back to my regular life.
That was it, it was over. So then everything kind of goes
quiet for the next 4 weeks. And so you had four weeks of
saying, hey, we did the right thing.
What was the discussion you had with your wife after that?
Yeah, it's over. We won.
Let's and you know, it was the last four weeks of my surgical
residency. So like, you know, we had, I had
a job in a small town outside of Dallas.
We're going to move out there. We were looking so forward to,
you know, kind of starting this, this next phase of our life.
And so we were like looking forward to all that and kind of,
we're going to put this all behind us and be over with it.
And that was it. And we're going to go on our
honeymoon because we hadn't gone on our honeymoon because, like,
the day after my wedding, my front tooth came out.
Yeah. And it came out again later in a
story, like a day before I did my first interview with Tucker
Carlson. Yeah.
Which was, like, the worst time. I had to go to like some strip
mall dentist to have it glued back on.
God has a sense of humor for us, I feel like.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you guys did a, you did a
like a the high 5 good guys win like let's go get pizza kind of
thing and we're going to go move into our new life and let's see
what happens in the next phase and.
And that was it and. Then then the music changed
because obviously that was not it.
Yeah, so it was the day of my graduation from surgical
training, June 23rd, 2023, One of the most important days of my
life, right? You work your entire life for
this one moment, right? Like, you know, 9100 hour weeks
for years, right? You sacrifice so much to get to
that point where you're graduating that like the day you
graduate is monumental. So it's a Friday and my family's
in town. I'm getting ready for the
ceremony later that evening. And then, you know, a couple
hours before the ceremony, you get aggressive, knock on the
door. And you know, I'm wearing like a
dumb like my, it was like one of my favorite color written house
T-shirts and like some dumb shorts from college.
And I answer the door and standing outside, we're two
armed federal agents with HHS. And in that moment, I just kind
of freaked out. But like, you know, that kind of
primitive part of, you know, my lizard brain knew exactly what
was going on, that they were there because of the Biden
regime, that they knew it was me who blew the whistle, and they
were there to exact their revenge.
So, you know, of course, I kind of freak out in the moment.
And, like, against everyone's best advice, I invite them in
and we sit down. They're right.
Yeah. It's much easier said than done,
I'll tell you that. It is.
And look, it's really important. Maybe we can dwell on this for a
minute. What is the what is the
physiological response and what is the psychological Dr. that
you think brings people to talk to a federal agent knocking on
their door? Oh, I'm I'm telling I and I
understand so well because it happened twice, right?
So the first time it's like you're, it's sheer panic where
one second you're living in one world and then the next, next
second you're like, holy crap, I have federal agents coming to my
door. Like, you know, the extent of my
criminal record is like detention in the 4th grade.
You know, like what's going on, right?
I'm like, we're gonna. Get you to admit to that.
Yeah, yeah. And so it's like like I'm like
exceptionally law abiding citizen and then now federal
agents are at my door and this and like I had exposed something
that became illegal the very next day.
Like, what the hell is going on? So you freak out and the moment
you freak out, so the in terms of physiological response, you
start sweating, your heart rate goes up, your vision gets
constrained, right? Your sphincters get a little
loose, right? You might crap your pants.
I didn't crap my pants, but you know, I I will not say I was not
close to so you know, just a. Full, sympathetic, nervous.
Response exactly. Yeah, so, but I knew what they
were there for. But thank God, my wife is a
brilliant attorney, right? So I invite them in.
We sit down, exchange a little small talk, right?
My dog's barking, but they pet my dog.
They're cool, right? So they said, hey, you know, is
it OK if we set up for an interview?
And I'm like, oh, I guess so. So they start sending up a
tripod on my my kitchen table, but they're kind of fumbling
around with it. They're like not doing it too
well, so. Do you think they were also
nervous? No, no, they seem cool.
They were like they were, they seem very reassured, like this
dude is toy screwed. Like we, you know, he fell for
it. He let us in like he's, you
know, he's done for, right. So that's when my wife came out
because she was getting ready for the graduation.
She comes out and she sits down and, you know, she introduces
herself. And then we look at each other.
And then we knew that, like, we had to go back to, you know,
have a private word in our bedroom.
So we did. And she said, you know, you, we
should not speak with these people without an attorney being
present. And I say, Andrea, you're right,
good idea. So we go back out there.
We sit down, and then I tell them, you know, I'm not going to
speak with you guys without an attorney present.
And they say, OK. And then they leave.
But before they leave, they hand me a target letter informing me
that I'm a potential target of a criminal investigation.
And the five minutes after that door opened, the door closes and
they're gone. And my wife and I knew that like
our lives from then on out was going to be completely
different. And we completely freaked out in
that moment, right? We kind of sit there for a
minute and we're like, man, like what do we do?
You know, So what I, you know, both of us are non-smokers.
But I thought, man, I really need a cigarette, you know?
So I go out, I buy a pack of cigarettes.
Did you really? Yeah.
And then I come back and have you.
Ever been a smoker? Not really like whenever I drank
in college, but like not really, no.
OK, but you've had a cigarette. It's not the first cigarette.
You had No, this is not so. It's like I, I thought to
myself, like man, like this. It seemed like the right thing
to do was like smoke a cigarette, you know?
Is there a Is there a physiological need for the
nicotine? Does it do something specific?
Well, I think it because it was like, so when I got back, right,
both of us were just infuriated by by these people showing up on
the day of my graduation. It was like a sense of defiance,
right in the first moment we freaked out, right?
We called Rufo and we let him know and he's like, all right,
I'm going to put you in contact with like an attorney.
So then my wife gets on the phone with a couple of
attorneys. She starts talking to him, and I
run out and get cigarettes, right?
So then when I get back, it's like, all right, we kind of had
a plan by that point. So then we're like, all right,
well, we're going to fight back because we said like, if we're
going to pursue this story, like, we're going to do it like,
like, if this is this something I'm willing to die for?
And the answer was yes, right? And that seems hyperbolic, but
it's not right because the whole time this had to be something I
was willing to go to prison for, something I was willing to die
for. And it was.
So we made that we had that discussion beforehand so we knew
what the right answer was, right?
So you know how do? You How do you think that you
came to be so convicted about this particular topic?
Because it was what happened during COVID, seeing the
destruction every single day during COVID had radicalized us
and radicalized towards like being human beings, like in
seeing individuals as like divine individuals, like made in
the image of God. And like because people are made
in the image of God, we have to treat them accordingly.
And during COVID, that was the time that people were treated
like animals where they were allowed to die on their own,
right. And I was a party to that, you
know, in the guilt of that was horrendous.
And like I did everything I could to fight against it during
COVID. But like, even for myself, there
was I had a limited power to to do to do anything because I was
like a lowly resident, right? But like that, it was that that
had destroyed me. But in those ashes had now I, I
can see it, right? I was reborn into something
else, right? Into like someone who saw people
as humans, right? Like I and I couldn't just let
this go, right. And my wife couldn't either
because I'm like a very easy going person by disposition.
But during COVID, I was an angry person, like very, very angry,
angry all day, every day. And mostly I was angry at myself
because I had allowed myself to be party to what was something
that was so manifestly evil, you know.
And so that's that's what what had LED us to that decision, you
know, because after seeing so many people die after, you know,
especially with the kids too, the the COVID lockdowns, the
destruction it had on the kids is something that is
unimaginable. You become familiar with the
sound the mother makes when you tell her that her kid is dead,
because that sound became way more familiar during COVID
because of the lockdowns. You know, there was one girl who
we saw who her parents were abusing her so bad she came in
with amputated fingers because her parents were were punishing
her by putting her hands into a seat, like into a window, like a
wall fan, right? And it was on so the fingers
would just get chopped off. So the reason she came in is
because, you know, right, Like it was being picked up in school
and her fingers were amputated and one of them were being was
infected, you know, and of course, this was during the
height of the lockdowns. And all this was able to happen
because these kids, these kids weren't in school for extended
periods of time. Parents lost their jobs, right?
They had gone crazy so. What a crazy view into, you
know, I think a lot of people felt like there was a lot of
tyranny and maybe there was a lot of, you know, government
overreach. I guess the I hadn't even
thought about the. I mean.
People, you know, like obviously.
What I saw was it's like I saw so many people I would take care
of every single day, people who are older and they would, they
would suffer alone in this vortex of despair because it
wasn't only the physiological disease that killed him.
It was the despair of not having their family member there.
And when you think about it, the most important time when someone
dies is that semi circle of people that forms around the
foot of their bed. And the moment they take their
last breath, they see the soul of the person they love the most
ascend into, you know, the great beyond into heaven.
And you know, the the reassurance of when you die of
having your family members there is, is to know that the legacy
of what you left and that the people you love will be there
around you. And that a part of you will
always remain some part in this world.
But that was gone for so many people.
And I had to be a part of that. So it's like like every single
person that died, I'm talking about warehouses full of people
who were dying alone in despair, away from the people they love
the most. And when they died, I had to
tell their wife, I'm sorry, but your husband has died.
And I had to hear the guilt on the wife's, in the wife's voice
when she said, you know, like she couldn't be there for it,
right? She couldn't be there for the
last couple of weeks. And and how many times did that
happen? Hundreds, hundreds of times in
my own experience. But also for the kids, you know?
That's absolutely brutal. Do you think that have you
talked about that with other physicians that carry that
around with them? Yeah, well, it's some doctors,
because a lot of doctors went along with it.
They never acknowledged it because, like, you have two
options, right? You ignore it and go along with
it and you suppress those demons or you acknowledge that this is
wrong, and it tears you up inside.
And for me, it tore me up inside to the point that it was just
unbearable, absolutely unbearable.
So for me, it's like someone who was a very easygoing
disposition. I became just just angry.
I mean, I'm talking about visceral anger and at myself,
you know, And like, you kind of know me.
Like, you know, facing 10 years in prison, Like, I kind of take
it in stride, but like, nothing compares to those days during
COVID when every single day I would go into work and I would
have to take care of these people who are dying.
And I would have to tell their families, no, you can't see your
husband who you've been married to for 50 years, 60 years, you
know, in, in like. Do you think people will ever
tolerate that sort of no again? They shouldn't.
I really hope so because only time will tell.
People cannot tolerate it because it was one of the
biggest crimes, one of the most severe crimes the medical
profession has ever perpetuated. On to the people we are supposed
to take care of. And the COVID tyranny had just
LED it into the transgender tyranny because it it worked by
the same calculus where it was like, you have to have
physicians who don't question the underlying assumptions.
And that's how it's allowed to proliferate.
You threaten people with the loss of their job and their
income and the ability to take care of their family, but in the
process you make them party to the crime itself, because by
being silent, you're party to it.
Yeah, that's, that's profound, Doc, that I mean, it is, I don't
know if anybody else is thinking that way in the medical field,
but that being complicit, the more you say yes is probably the
more you're going to say yes too.
Yeah, and that's The thing is like, you know, by me not doing
anything about TCH lying about their transgender program, that
was me saying yes, right? And like, I saw what it was
doing to me during COVID, right? It was destroying me.
It was, it was eating my soul from the inside out, right?
And like how, you know, my dad always told me he's like, you're
a doctor, you have to take care of your patients.
And I saw what he did, you know, how he took care of his
patients. And like, you know, the shame of
not honoring my father, right, in his legacy, but also the
legacy of the medical profession.
How could I ever do that and look myself in the mirror and
and, you know, call myself a doctor?
Well, the answer is I can't, you know, So that's why like these
conversations, like, was I willing to die for this?
Yes. Was I willing to go to prison?
Yes. Right.
Because it's like when you have the option between the two, two
paths, you know, the destruction of your soul, right?
The the immolation of your soul, right?
Or this other thing where you maybe take on the federal
government. The answer is clear.
You take on the federal government and that's what we
did because the day the agents came, we chained, smoked a pack
of cigarettes, listened to Vietnam War music, and drank
like 3 balls of champagne or patio because everything that
had culminated up until that point had got us ready for the
fight. And that's what I kind of meant
by God's Providence. Because it was only the pain and
the suffering of seeing all those people, you know, despair
during the previous three years, during COVID that had gotten our
souls ready for the fight that was to come.
This is very cinematic stuff, but but once you've lived
something that extreme, people don't realize, like you start
living in a way that feels kind of like you're narrating your
own movie. Holy shit, man.
And that's only the beginning, because what happened afterwards
was just like totally insane. I mean, if we like and and it
gets, it's like when you think one thing can't get crazier, it
just gets crazier. And it was just one gradually
more severe, like it just got crazier every day until the very
end. Yeah, let's.
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OK, so the agents leave you chain smoked some cigarettes.
Yeah, I go to my graduation later that evening and, you
know, like we celebrate with all the people I trained with and my
parents and, you know, we have a great time.
And of course, like that, that kind of feeling of defiance
really lasts, you know, for that moment in time.
It's, excuse me, much more difficult the next day, right,
where you realize, like, holy crap, like this is a big deal.
Like, we're really going up against something big.
But we got in touch with our attorney, Marcella Burke with by
Christopher Ruffo. And she's like like a Bible
thumping rosary in one hand, middle finger in the other,
bulldog of an attorney, hardcore Catholic, like she's like our
guardian Angel. And she was able to assemble
like a brilliant legal team. It was her, Jeff Hall, who is a
former federal prosecutor, and then Mark Lytle, who is
representing the IRS whistleblowers in the Hunter
Biden IRS case. And I had seen him on Fox News
the week before and that Monday, right?
I'm on the phone with Marcella Burke, Jeff Hall and Mark
Lydell. And I'm like, man, like, all
right, this is a good legal team, you know, So we signed an
engagement letter with them. And over the next couple of
months, that's when things got really hairy in multiple
different ways. So this it was when my attorneys
first got in contact with the prosecutor.
Her name is Tina Ansari. She's a, a USA in the Southern
District of Texas, which is the same position as my wife, the
the same position my wife had just been hired for, but in the
Northern District of Texas. So you know, the target letter
said they wanted to meet with me like July 7th.
So my attorneys reach out and say, OK, we're representing Dr.
Heim, let's meet, let's talk. So July 7th comes by, right?
And they came June 23rd. So July 7th comes by, no answer,
right? A couple more weeks go by, a
couple more, you know, meetings, No answer.
She cancels, right? Very like shaky, very
questionable. So finally get in touch with
this attorney, Tina Ansari, and all of what I'm about to say is
written in a letter to Congress because my, it was so shocking.
My attorneys wrote a letter to Jim Jordan in the weaponization
subcommittee, right? So in that first call, she
admits to my attorneys that she sent agents to my home without
ever reviewing the evidence beforehand.
Right. Wait, what?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So she sent agents to my home
like on the day of my graduation.
She's the one. You did it though.
Yeah, she never reviewed the evidence before doing it.
What was the allegation that sent them there?
She wasn't quite sure. She had to like, talk to the
agents. And then she's like, oh, it's
HIPAA. But my attorneys are like, well,
what do you mean HIPAA? And she's like, oh, all right,
let me call you back. And it was very unprofessional.
And it was like very clear. She had no idea what this story
was like, what the investigation was about, right?
But she was agent then. So it was her.
And then Hamdani, because we would later find out that.
And let me back up Hamdani Alamdar.
Hamdani is a politically appointed US Attorney of the
Southern District of Texas. So each state is broken up into
federal districts. In charge of each district is
AUS attorney who's appointed by the president.
So Alamdar Hamdani is the Biden appointed US Attorney, so of
course some political operative. And as we would later find out,
Tina Ansari is also a political operative.
So they had bypassed all of the deputies between the US attorney
and the AUSA in order to bring this case only themselves, which
is kind of like General Patton, you know, making his war
strategy with like, a private first class or something, you
know, very atypical for like, everyone in the middle to be cut
out. So it was being driven by
Hamdani, Tina Ansari, the AUSA. But then also my belief is from
DC, right? So we find out that this lady is
has no idea what this case is about.
She thinks I released names. I obviously did not release
names. But then she also, you know,
after demonstrating a complete lack of understanding about what
this case is about, she did enough research to find out my
wife had just been hired as a assistant US attorney in the
Northern District of Texas and was undergoing a background
check. And she says, well, you know,
I'm surprised Andrea had interfered with this
investigation, you know, because I understand she's undergoing a
background check. I'm not going to bring this up
with the the FBI unless she continues to become difficult.
So in the first call, she she admitted that she sent agents to
my home without ever reviewing the evidence.
But also she threatened my wife. Yeah.
OK, your resolve is hardened or loosened.
So once you threaten my wife, game on.
There was no going back, right? It's like you threaten my wife.
That's a problem, major problem. So after that point, we the
calls only got crazier and crazier, right?
Where she says, you know, this is over the next couple of
months where she's saying that she's in contact with the
transgender families. These are the real victims.
Also, the real victims are the doctors in the hospital.
And most importantly, she says that she's going to bring my
case to a jury trial, even on a technicality, even if she's sure
she's going to lose, right? Which means that, like, her
investigation at this point before the indictment is not
about justice. This is all about like,
destruction, right? It's all about weaponization.
Yeah, it sounds like a crusade. Yeah, yeah.
It, it was like, like, like a like a train rolling downhill
without brake pads. Like this was something that was
going to continue on no matter what.
And like, even after my attorneys like, you know,
express like, hey, well, no names were released.
How could this be a HIPAA violation?
She didn't. She was unwilling to see it.
And of course, because this was a politically motivated case.
So it was during this last, you know, it was the last
conversation where she told me she was going to take me a trial
even if she was sure she was going to lose.
That was like the last straw. That was in October of 2023,
four months after the agents first came.
And that was like the first couple of weeks I started my job
as a general surgeon after my training, right?
And by that point too, we were completely broke because we were
paying our attorneys, right? And like the amount of research
that has to go into this hundreds of thousands of
dollars. So we have like $2000 to my
name, you know, like I had just started my new job.
And at that point, it's like this prosecutor, she's going to
criminally indict me. She's going to send me to prison
for a decade. And like, I'm still anonymous at
the time because the last thing I want to do is take this story
public. So what was your?
What was your student loan debt looking like for for going
through medical school or did you have any?
So luckily I didn't have any because yeah, you know, that was
pretty. Rare, right?
Yeah, because in Florida it was pretty affordable.
It was affordable. So the reason I bring that up,
there seems to be a almost universal theme that the people
that have decided my little crew of suspendables, that the folks
that have stepped up and said I'm willing to take this fight
on, they seem to be more or less financially solvent.
And I don't know why that's a common thread, but it seems like
a like a like a mindset of responsibility.
Yeah, helps you do that. And if you don't owe debts, you
can you can do things that other people maybe won't do or can't
do. And.
I, I think that's, that's probably a good point because
like for example, for me, you know, for, for me, my wife, at
that time, we didn't have any debts.
We had no money, but we didn't have any debt, right.
So I, yeah, I think that's, that's probably a good point.
You know, something that's kind of profound because it's like,
yeah, it's, it's, it's a big deal.
You know, well, it's a, it's an argument in favor of financial
responsibility because it gives you the power to do the thing
that you're supposed to do, I think.
Yeah. I think so.
We'll have to reflect on this at another time.
Maybe we'll get a panel together and talk about financial
responsibility and the ability to blow the whistle.
Yeah, yeah, Yeah. No, I could see that.
But so it was at that point in October 2023, right, that it was
like, all right, well, I have to take the story public because if
I don't like the DOJ is going to crush me, I'm going to be
crushed by an avalanche propaganda, right?
And then like, no one's going to hear the truth of what really
happened. So over the next couple of
months, we start getting ready, right?
So we decided in October of 2023, I'm going to take the
story public. What?
Was that conversation or what were the what was the final
moment where you said this is where it's go time, you got to
be loud? So of course it's like another
pack of cigarettes, you know, chain smoke.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's terrible.
Yeah, I know, I know. Yeah.
And we, you know, it's like we don't smoke anymore.
I mean, it's like it's like situations like this.
It's like, of course you kind of need to smoke a cigarettes like
you know it's. I think, I don't know why I
think that's so funny because one, maybe it's the the medical
background too. And also I've just never had,
I've never had an instinct for it.
So I just yeah, you know, a lot of the guys that would throw a
dip in though when something was getting, you know, kind of
heavy. So I get it.
I've seen. It Oh, yeah, yeah.
No, I, I used to dip. That was like, my thing was like
chewing tobacco. Of course.
Yeah. So, you know, we, we decide,
right? That conversation was tense.
Oh my God, that I'm just thinking back just brings back
like memories of horror. I'm telling you, man, sheer
horror. Because like, we were on the
precipice of like doing the most insane thing you could ever
imagine. Because think about it, two
people, Andrea and me, we don't have social media.
We don't know anyone, right? Both of us just started a job.
She just started her job at the Department of Justice.
And her husband, me, is about to take this story public, accusing
the DOJ of like, like the worst possible corruption.
And like, like, we had zero money.
And I thought my job was going to fire me and I was going to
lose my license and everything. But like, we were backed into a
corner. We had no option, right?
Like, so it's like they're putting into this us into this
position, right? And we had to do something
because at the same point too, there's more to it because we
were broke. The the DOJ was completely
corrupt. But also people were writing
reviews about me online, right? Malicious reviews accusing me of
sexually abusing patients behind closed doors in like patient
rooms, right? And I knew that.
And the first review came like July 3rd, a week after the
agents came on June 23rd. And by the language, right, I
could tell that this was an activist.
So over the course of the next couple months, between June and
January 2024, right, we did our own investigation.
We had subpoenaed WebMD to get the IP address.
And by doing that investigation, we had found that the individual
who was writing all these reviews was the same person, and
it was someone who was in the hospital who was part of this
story, like a main person of this story.
Has that been exposed? Not yet, Not yet.
But but you have some, you have some intentions.
I know. I know who it is, yeah.
Yeah. Is there a is there a a legal
liability for this person? The session limitations has
already passed, but there's, there's, yeah, there's things
that can happen. Yeah, got it.
So one activist decided to go out and smear you publicly in a
place where you're reviewed for. Being from the hospital, I'm
talking about from Texas Children's Hospital, right?
So, so multiple angles of being attacked, right.
Like my hospital's like, Oh my God, what are these awful
reviews? Are you like a sexual like
predator? It's like, no, you know, it's
like these are fake reviews being posted by activists from
this hospital who had released my name, right?
And then then the DOJ, right? Everything's corrupt.
So it's like you're on this precipice where you're about to
do the craziest thing imaginable, like something
that's never been done before. And we're like, whatever we got
to do it. We have no other option because
we're backed into a corner. So we do it.
And we film an interview with Chris Caruffo in November of
2023. And then we knew that with
Thanksgiving, Christmas, the New Year's, we were going to release
it after, right? So it comes out January 10th,
2024. And you know, I go public and
that's when that week was when I first met you, right?
And and that's what, you know, that was very nerve wracking
too. It's totally insane, you know?
Why was that insane? Because it's like I, I had
listened to you before and like, I had heard your story.
Like, like you were one of the people like who hadn't inspired
me beforehand. Like there was this whole host
of people who had served as my inspirations.
Like, holy crap, look at these FBI whistleblowers.
Like they're kind of in a similar position to me.
But like, I was actually more concerned for you guys that you
guys might get murdered. And you know, that's just
honestly what I thought. Because it's like FBI is like a
whole different ball game of risk when you're exposing the
Biden administration. For me, this was a Texas story.
So it's kind of a different threat level for you guys.
I was like, legitimately concerned, you know?
What it's worth, I was a legitimately concerned
originally and then probably about the same way as you.
You start doing the work and you don't have any time to worry
about yourself and that you got to just keep busy.
I imagine that's the same thing you did.
And and plus having like an arsenal of guns and like 10s of
thousands of rounds helps too. Yeah, it doesn't solve.
It doesn't solve the problem if you've got to sleep right.
But at the end of the day, you can't worry about danger if
you're trying to do the right thing and you got to just keep
pushing forward, which is kind of I, I imagine what?
OK, so you decide to go public. You do the thing.
Chris Ruffo airs the interview. What was the first response you
got during that week? So it was.
It was, you know, maybe the first day complete panic, but
then then you kind of get into the groove, right?
Like I just got back to surgery, right?
And, and I luckily I work in a place that is very supportive,
right? An amazing small town and I was,
I was truly blessed. And that's another part of God's
province, right? It's like somehow before all
this happened, I ended up working in like the smallest
town and it's like a gem of, of people who are like the, the God
fearing brilliant, like, you know, you know, humble, you
know, neighborly people who are like the best people in in this
country and. The alternative is you go to a
big hospital that's got a big marquee name and there's a big
budget behind the department and they all side with the
transgender activist. Yeah, And this was, you know, I
work in a small County Hospital, right?
And, and it's it's a public hospital, but the people there
are the best people in the world.
So they stood behind me. And then so the next six months
go by, right, where I'm just telling the story, trying to
raise enough money to fight the legal battle that I know is
eventually coming, right. So let's Fast forward a couple
months, right, to June of 2024, a year after, right?
The feds initially came, and that's when the indictment came
at 7:30 in the, you know, 7:00 in the morning, you know, 3
heavily armed federal agents, US Marshals.
My wife knew one of them because she works at the office, right?
And, you know, they show up to my house like I'm a drug kingpin
and they hand me a, you know, indictment, 4 felonies that I'm
being charged with up to a decade in prison.
And, you know, so I can have my arraignment like a week after
that, right? The arraignment is where you go
in front of a judge and you have to plead not guilty.
So I go to Houston, right? And you'll have my legal team
are ready to fight. And at that point, like, you
know, we had raised a good amount of money at that point,
especially in the days after the indictment.
So I go to the arraignment, right?
I stand in front of a judge and in that arraignment, the FBI
agent Paul Nixon, the guy who was in the video from Vanessa
Savage, right? That famous video of the guy in
the red shirt who was like a complete asshole, right?
He came to that arraignment. He was sitting right behind me,
right? Right behind me and my pregnant
wife. And how, how odd is that for an
FBI agent? You were an FBI agent to come to
a arraignment, right? For like, someone they're
investigating. And he sits right behind me like
some type of creeper. Like, that's crazy, you know?
It's fairly common actually to show up for the initial
appearance. People do that.
Oh, really? It's more common than you'd
think. Yeah.
All right. Well, I'll.
I'll tell you. They're the one who arrests you.
So for what it's worth, so people can understand the
process and how it usually would go down.
Usually somebody would come and the indictment would equal
either a surrender or an arrest warrant.
Then you would be taken into custody, brought in front of a
judge. Then you have your initial
appearance and the person who brought you in front would
actually be that agent. Then they either turn you over
to the marshals or they release you on your own recognizance,
whatever is going to happen next.
So that that's fairly common. The fact that we're talking
about something that is not violent, white collar, sketchy
medical question that, you know, they let you drive down there
yourself, I assume. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So. It's kind of a different animal,
but it's not the craziest thing to imagine an FBI agent.
They're just for context. I don't think it's that.
Wild. And and that's, that's good to
know, right? I don't like it any better.
But I, I appreciate that to know
that it's, it's not that uncommon.
It's good to know. But still, he sat right behind
me. Very weird, you know, I felt
very uncomfortable. I imagine you did, Sure.
Yeah, so I plead not guilty, but of course, this isn't a federal
Criminal Court, right? So like everyone else came out
in like orange jumpsuit and like handcuffs.
So it's like the person before me was like a pedophile.
The one before that was like, you know, trafficking like 100
lbs of cocaine. And then it's me, right?
Like who's like some fake crime and, you know, no judgement on
these other people, right? Like it's just not to say that
these people are like less than me or anything.
It's just, it's kind of a, it's a crazy like comparison that
like somehow this. Corrupt case, you know, And I
think that's what they wanted to show me, right?
That like you're going to end up in a prison just like everyone
else. Is that what you thought?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That they wanted to make sure it
was done that way, right? To scare me, right?
So you could see what was coming.
Exactly. Yeah, because they were Steve
Baker. My friend said the same thing
when he was put out there on 4 misdemeanor charges.
Yeah. He's like they leg.
Shackled me. They took me out and they sat me
next to a meth dealer in a jail cell for four hours so I could
get my mind right. Yeah.
And and then they read in front of the entire courtroom and
there were reporters in there too, right, For these counts
for, you know, disclosure for, you know, filing patient, you
know, rights and whatever, 10 years in prison, right?
The whole point is like the theater of it.
And you know, like, because I know this, right, Because the my
attorneys had a conversation in that courtroom that day with
Tina Ansari, the late prosecutor had been threatening my wife,
who had been threatening me. Super corrupt.
The first thing she says to my attorney, Ryan Patrick, who was
her old boss, by the way, because Ryan Patrick was the
former US attorney under Trump of the Southern District.
He was, you know, following him was Hamdani, right?
So, you know, Tina Ansari was this AUSA under Ryan Patrick,
who was now representing me, right?
The first thing that Tina Ansari says in that courtroom is, are
we really going to try this case?
The implication being like, why isn't he just plead to something
and and get all over with? And it's like, yeah, you're
wrong, lady. There's no way in fucking hell
I'm going to plead to something. No way, no, no way I would ever
do that. So right, the fight's on.
And then after that I love. Your attitude about this because
I I empathize with it so much. I feel like it's such people
don't get it. Like what drives you like that
that got you going. Like they wanted to intimidate
you and it changed you the other way.
Yeah, because it's like, it's like you see me as such a
peasant. Like, like you think that I can
just be intimidated into pleading to a crime that never
happens. Like, it's like a like a a shame
on my dignity as a man, right. Especially as a future father
because my wife was pregnant at the time.
Like, if you think you can do this to me, like, no, like I
will die before that. That comes, right.
And I'll go to jail before that comes.
I'll do anything in order to prevent you from getting the
satisfaction of beating me, which we ended up winning,
right? Turned out, turned out God wins.
Yeah. Yeah, Exactly.
Exactly. It's, it's, it's sheer audacity,
anger and perseverance and, and like, you know, understanding
why you're doing because everything I explained before,
like it was like to, to give in, to go, it would be to go back to
that person during COVID, right? That perpetual anger that I
could never live with. So, right, we were going to
fight back and I was going to do so in a very public way because
that was my only way to fight back was to speak publicly to
make sure that I was going to be, you know, deluged by an
avalanche of propaganda because, you know, every mainstream media
source was going to lie about what this case was about, right?
So I had to tell my own story. And X was like the most critical
thing because without X, there's no way to tell the story.
I mean, and, and you're a part of that, right?
Like legally you're a part of that because.
You know, that's right. I forgot that's.
Really. Yeah, Yeah, that's funny.
So to kind of break down the next couple of months, so the
DOJ's case completely fell apart over the next couple of months
because we fought back and it fell apart in a number of ways.
First of all, their initial indictment said that I had no
reason to be a TCH in May, April and May of 2023, right, Even
though they had evidence that showed I was rotating and
operating there, right? And April, May of 2023, but
their indictment was was telling some like completely fake story.
So like I knew it was a fake story and we just had to get
evidence from TCH right. So we did.
And and you know, we go through this long, you know, hundreds of
thousands of dollars of legal battle for like in September and
October. What ends up happening is,
right, the TCH discloses to DOJ. Oh, you know, in actuality,
yeah. Doctor Heim was working at TCH
in April, May of 2023. He was operating on the day that
he requested access. And what they were accusing me
of was accessing the medical records without authorization,
right? Like I hacked into the system,
right? But that was not true, right?
I was working there, but the DOJ's own evidence showed that I
was working there. So their first indictment fell
apart, right? They had to go back to another
grand jury and come up with another indictment.
And, you know, they had to, in their emotions, they had to
acknowledge that they presented false information to the first
grand jury, but they said they didn't do so knowingly.
And it's my opinion that that's BS, right?
Because the most critical information, the unsealed
evidence from the first grand jury, right, shows in the most
explicit way possible that the DOJ was in possession of
evidence that showed I was operating and rotating a TCH in
April and May of 2023, which is why I requested access in the
1st place. So their first indictment falls
apart, right? Big victory, right?
We think, all right, you know, like they have no case against
me. In between the 1st and the
second indictment, That's when they changed the victims from
TCH and his patients to TCH and his physicians, which was the
first time in American history that HIPAA was being used not to
protect patient privacy, but rather to protect multibillion
dollar hospital systems in the academic institutions that
protect them or that that work there.
So they had to make a big decision, is that correct, that
they were going to change the way that they're going to try to
argue and, and, and bring the case?
Yeah, my wife is a federal prosecutor, right?
She knows how this happens. They had to sit around the
conference room and think, all right, how are we going to do
this? Are we have we can't prove
disclosure. So they took out disclosure
because there was never any disclosure, right.
So that's like the criminally actual language in the in HIPAA
is disclosure because there's no violation of information if you
don't disclose it, right? It's like you can't murder
someone unless someones dead right?
No, I understand. Yeah, the element.
Of the yeah, yeah, yeah. So so like if the person is
alive, you can't charge someone with murder.
And if the if the information didn't go anywhere except in
your eyeballs and into your brain, then who knows so.
Exactly. Yeah, Yeah.
Because that's the nature of what a doctor does is you see
all this information, most of that information is not your
patients. But so they had to figure out,
all right, how we're going to do this, right?
Well, we can't say patients are the victims because we can't do
disclosure. So they took out disclosure,
right? And then they changed private
health information to just information, right.
So, and then they changed TCH and patients to TCH and
physicians. So in all these big changes, it
went from, you know, legally actionable language to legally
meaningless language. And in the process they changed
it to obtained and or disclosed to obtained and or use, right.
But use is not a word that's in the HIPAA statute, right?
So it goes back to like the murder thing, right?
Like you can't charge someone with murder if they didn't die.
Use is not part of the criminal statute.
Right. So there's something common here
though, and I think This is why weaponization is necessary to to
kind of bring into the, the, the fray.
A lot of the things that were done under the Biden DOJ
involved what I've used the term novel interpretation of a
statute. In other words, it's the first
time that they've used the statute in a specific way.
The Fisher case, which was decided in the Supreme Court,
was one of those where they decided that obstruction of
justice could mean something that it had never meant before.
It was something he brought up during the Enron, you know, the
Enron debacle. And they went after them for,
for January 6th. You're another one of these
people where they said let's interpret the statute in a way
that we can bring this. And you know, that's a really
important point to bring up because my attorney brought this
up in the motion to dismiss. For DOJ prosecutors to do that,
they have to have it approved by Congress, right?
No, that and that's rule like, like if you're going to
interpret a criminal statute, a felony statute in a completely
novel way, you have to have it approved by Congress that.
Would usually mean that Congress just passes a law that says it
Yeah, this is what we. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Like it has to go through a formal process of approval.
Interesting. So that didn't happen, of
course, and that's like a very minor technicality that my
attorneys found, but which is huge.
But they also had shown that they're in the entire predicate
of their case was unconstitutional, right?
Like fundamentally unconstitutional what they were
doing, which makes it illegal, right?
So, and so the second indictment was changed in a way, right, to
where the victims were no longer patients, but TCH and as
physicians, those physicians being Baylor College Medicine
physicians. And this is where things get
really interesting with the lead prosecutor because during the
early portion of the case, right in September when things really
started ramping up, we find out that the lead prosecutor is
practicing law without a license because her license was
suspended. And to practice law in Texas
without license is a felony, right?
No matter what the reason is. So, so we bring this up to the
judge, we say, hey, judge, you know, like this attorney's
practicing law without a license, what are you going to
do about it? And he's like, no worries.
Your, your, your motion for show for show cause is dismissed.
He was like, he was completely unconcerned by it, right?
Which is like, like, you know, that's when we kind of knew who
this judge was. Like we were starting to
understand like his play in this whole thing, right?
And and there's kind of more to who this judge is, but we can
talk about that later. But so the lead prosecutor,
right, just a whole host of misconduct, you know, not only
admitting to my attorneys, she was, she sent agents by home
without reviewing the evidence, threatening my wife practicing
without a license. But then I find out, right?
I find out that her brother owns a big coffee company, the world,
the country's largest private label coffee distributor, right?
And I hear that like there's some like fishy things about her
family and the hospitals, right? And it's just about like
conflicts of interest. I, her family, you know, for the
record, seem like, you know, honest, hard working people.
But like someone kind of led me on to like some things about her
family and connections. So I started looking into it,
right? And turns out that her family,
right, her brother owns his coffee company who has business,
like active business contracts with Harris Health, which is
part of the Baylor TCH consortium.
It's like, like one of the three legs of the stool, right?
Is Harris Health a public entity?
You know, her uncle was on the board of TCH.
Her aunt is a major TCH and Baylor College Medicine
fundraiser. Her brother, the guy with coffee
company. Right after Tina Ansari sent
agents to my home, Tina Ansari's brother started attending major
fundraisers with the president of TCH, Debbie Sukin, where he
was raising like $400,000, like $1,000,000 right in like one
night. And so your wife knows that DOJ
has very specific conflict of interest rules and they're
pretty broad, if, if I recall. Yeah, anything that can be
perceived as like a conflict of interest, it's like a relatively
low threshold. Yeah.
And then you just, you just beg off and somebody else steps in.
Yeah, so the prosecutor who was reinterpreting HIPAA in the
first time in American history to make it not about patients to
but about powerful, you know, multibillion dollar, you know,
medical institutions, TCH and Baylor was the same person whose
family stood the most, stood the most to benefit if those
powerful institutions were protected.
So, of course, once we make the DOJ aware of these conflicts of
interest, she steps away from the case in a motion that was
under seal. So she was probably so
embarrassed by what was happening that she withdraws
from the case under a sealed motion.
For people who don't know what that is, she used the judges
like secret like capabilities to like keep things under wraps to
withdraw from the case, which is very atypical because there's no
reason for a prosecutor to withdraw from the case and to
have it sealed. She could very simply just say
there she could write up a motion that says there's a
conflict of interest that's been uncovered and stepping away.
Yeah, yeah. But this conflict of interest
was too much, right? Yeah.
And it probably would have. It would have shed light, it
sounds like on Yeah, the entire reason why they were bringing
the case in the first place. Exactly, which is why everything
happened so quick, right? Because what?
When was this? This is late 2024.
Yeah, this is November 2024. Yeah, yeah.
And we were right. And this is election time.
This is before the election. Before the election, right?
Yeah, right. In the time during the election.
Because we had a big couple weeks with that election and
some of the stuff that started happening as I recall.
Yeah, yeah. So it was huge.
So it was like the first indictment falls apart because
the entire premise of their story is a fabrication, right.
Then the second indictment falls apart because they charged me
with a non existent crime. They use thing as I mentioned,
obtain and or use. But they also left a typo in
their indictment. Instead of Subchapter XI, they
said sub or instead of Subchapter XI, they wrote
Subchapter XL, like extra large, like a Taco Bell order, you
know, like, you know, so they didn't even proofread their
indictment, you know, so their second, their second indictment
falls apart. And then Tina Ansari, you know,
just got embarrassed by the judge because she was practicing
without a license. She had all these conflicts.
And then she steps down from the case, right.
And then at the end of that hearing, Tina Ansari says we
will not file another indictment because they wanted the judge to
strike the language to just edit it instead of them pursuing a
new indictment with a whole new grand jury.
So she steps down from the case and then was the other
prosecutors, do they just pursue another indictment, right?
Like, which essentially breaches their duty of candor to the
court because they told everyone they weren't going to get
another indictment, right. But then they got another
indictment after the judge refused, you know, their motion.
So it was at that point that the same day they got their third
indictment was when they filed a motion to gag me, which is when
things got really bad, you know, and and they said it was because
they couldn't get a fair trial. But like, you know, it's not the
the government, right? It's like, and first of all, I
can't, how can I influence a jury in one of the biggest
districts in the entire country? And when there's a million
things you would do beforehand to to prevent the court from
taking away my First Amendment, like, you know, Vor Dyer, right?
Like, like with asking, you know, jury people in the jury.
Have you ever heard of this person?
Right. But they went straight to a gag
order. So, you know, that whole thing
kind of devolves into a hearing where this.
Is about your Twitter account. This is about your social media.
It's the fact that you're out there doing interviews is why
they were to gag you. Exactly so me like because at
that point the only person to advocate for me was myself.
Just by speaking out publicly on Twitter, I was able to mount a
legal defense, but also expressed to the public what was
happening in taxpayer funded courtrooms, how the how the DOJ
was completely corrupted. And then, you know, we had the
hearing December 3rd, right, where the DOJ brings in all of
their exhibits. And your tweets were part of
those exhibits, right? Where there was a moment where
they read one of your tweets about the DOJ being in like a
clown car of incompetent midwits and the, the court breaks out in
laughter, right? And the DOJ doesn't realize that
everyone's laughing at them, right.
Yeah. So.
But the judge was clutching his pearls like this was the first
time he's ever heard of like a a citizen criticizing the DOJ.
He was like, oh, my God, like, how can this person, you know,
treat the DOJ like this? It was, it was, it was like it
was embarrassing for, you know, just to see this from.
My own, from my own knowledge, did they say who I was or they
just said Kyle Seraphin, some random guy, Yeah.
Did you say Kyle Seraphin? Yeah, that.
Yeah, that makes it even funnier.
Yeah, yeah, I guess so. I'd known who I was.
It would have been even more offensive to them.
Yeah, yeah. But so the judge as a result of
that gag order hearing December 3rd after the election, right,
he threatens to send me to jail if I continue similar conduct.
So he didn't grant the he didn't grant the order.
He didn't deny the order. What he did is something called
like a prior restraint. This is really important stuff.
This is this is Gerardo Boyle, like one O 1.
This is his biggest thing. So let's get really, really
specific about it. Prior restraint is what he
wanted you to do. Yeah.
So prior restraint is like when you limit the expression of, you
know, speech before it even happens in a way that is
unconstitutional. It's me telling you you need to
figure out what my line looks like.
Exactly. And don't cross the line then
I'm not going to tell you what it is.
Yeah, so he said similar conduct, but he didn't define
what similar conduct is. So it's like, yeah, like, so
I'll send you to jail if you cross a line that I have not
defined. But how am I supposed to know
where the line is because you haven't defined it.
But if I cross it, the consequences are the most
severe. And he knows that by not
granting it or denying it, he protects himself from
accountability, from a, from appeal, right?
And he also knows we didn't have any money to appeal it, right?
He also protects the DOJ from criticism, which is what the
ultimate goal was. And by extension, he protects
himself from criticism because by me criticizing the DOJ,
people are starting to wonder, who is this judge who's like
allowing all this corruption to proliferate in his courtroom,
right? So, but all that comes at a
cost, all that comes at a cost of my constitutional rights,
right? Because like we were completely
broke. Any resources we had at which at
that point was zero, it was negative $1,000,000 had to go
towards a federal trial. We were already in the hole by
that point, $1,000,000. And we had at that point raised
like $1.2 million. So the case in total was a
little bit over $2,000,000, right?
So we we, we still owe about 1,000,000, but we knew that.
You still do? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So we had to save everything for a for trial, which which we were
still planning on going to in February, right?
So like for the next month and a half, I was just, I, I had to
stay silent. That's why my wife spoke out
because my wife was just furious.
And Grant, she's still working at the DOJ, she's a federal
prosecutor. And she was so upset by what had
happened. And my wife was born, my
daughter was born just a couple of months earlier in September,
you know, so. My wife speaks out and, and you
know, you remember that that was like in, in mid-december.
So she's like speaking out on my behalf because like, like
speaking out was the only thing I could have possibly done to,
to, to defend myself legally. Because how am I going to pay my
attorneys? Donations was the only way I
could pay my attorneys. How can I tell the truth to
people? Because so my, my wife
understood that. So that's when she decided to
speak out. But then after Trump got
inaugurated January 20th and he signed the EO against the
weaponization, that's when behind closed doors, the DOJ was
just escalating the case, like January 20th, 21st, 22nd, right?
So I'm like, this is too much, right?
Like this is in direct contravention of Trump's newly
signed executive order and they're escalating this case
behind closed doors. I can no longer stay silent,
right? Because ever since that hearing,
I, I just shut up because I couldn't risk it, right?
We didn't have any resources to do anything.
I, I, and, you know, it was, that was the hardest time.
I mean, truly, that was the most difficult time.
I was back into the place where I was during COVID.
I was just, I was so angry because like, I was now a part
of it. I was a part of the corruption
that was being imposed on me by the judge because I was, I was
the one who was allowing their corruption to proliferate,
right? Because they required me, you
know, my own compliance in order to make the whole thing seem
legitimate, right? And it was after Trump's
inauguration and after that EO and after they were escalating
this case behind closed doors, I said enough is enough.
Like, this is over. I'm speaking out.
And that's when on January 22nd, yeah, I, I think it was January
22nd or 23rd that I said, you know, I wrote a post on acts and
I said, you know, I cannot afford to stay silent anymore.
This is a kangaroo court, right? That there is nothing we can do
legally to fight against this obvious corruption.
So I have to speak out publicly, right?
Because that's the only thing I can do.
And in response to that, the judge had completely blown his
lid because what we were hearing from multiple sources is that he
was getting ready to sign a warrant for my arrest for
violating a gag order that he had never signed, right?
So he was serious about that. He had to be talked down from a
ledge, from what we were told, like that happened behind closed
doors. So it was like a Thursday
evening, like the 23rd, like the day after I spoke out that, you
know, we were being told you might be arrested tomorrow when
you go in for surgery in the morning.
So make sure, like Andrea has things like ready to be handled
like, you know, this is a big deal.
So it was the next morning that, you know, people moved into
action and the DOJ, the transition team had issued
guidance to the Southern District of Texas to say dismiss
this corrupt case with prejudice immediately, right?
So then two days after I spoke out, one day after I thought I
was going to be sent to jail, the DOJ signs a motion to
dismiss my case with prejudice. And then a few hours after, the
judge signs the order to dismiss the case with prejudice.
And from that moment, everything's done.
What did that feel like? You know, it was like in that
moment, it's surreal. You kind of elevate to a
different existence. You kind of float, you kind of
go into a dream world, right? Like like legitimately, like,
you know, things start slowing down, right for a brief moment
where you look at your wife, My wife tells me.
And then we hug and we kiss and we hold our baby.
And then you kind of hold each other and then you kind of, it's
very weird. It's hard to explain, but it's,
you get transports like this alternate reality where like
this world that you didn't think existed, where I would be free
is now a place that I'm somehow living in, right?
And then that thing exists for maybe like 10 minutes or so.
And then you kind of start realizing and then the world
kind of opens back up and then you start realizing like, holy
crap, I'm free, you know, And then you go through like the
state of like elation, right where you're like, you drink
champagne. I hold my baby, I hold my wife
and we kiss and we hug and we love each other.
And, you know, it's, and then, you know, I talk to my family, I
talk to people I've met along the way.
I talk to you and other people. And I'm like, thank God, you
know, thank God I'm free. And then, you know, after that,
it's like, you know, you're happy, but then you still feel
the same. You still, you're in a war mode,
right? And and that's still how I feel
today, right? Where it's like that that's
going to take time for that layer of anger of aggressiveness
to shut off, right? Because you know, it's something
that you build up where you don't, you don't, you don't hope
for anything like, like hope was the most dangerous thing during
those days and still is. I don't hope for anything beyond
my immediate control, right? Because the hope is what will
destroy your soul, right? You have to get ready for war,
right? You have to get ready for the
worst possible thing that can happen.
You have to get ready for imprisonment and death and other
anything other than that is, is, is a fever dream, right?
So it's like slowly extracting myself from that mindset is what
I have to do. You still feel like there's got
to be some some accountability for what happened I.
Imagine. Yeah, of course, Of course.
Because what these people did, it's to accuse someone of a
crime they did not commit, but especially when that person did
the right thing to expose a hospital for lying about their
program that was manipulating, mutilating and sterilizing young
children, right. It's the most evil thing you can
do. Because to accuse someone
innocent, right, you have to see that person as less than human.
Because like, like, I could never imagine myself doing the
same thing to this prosecutor who came after me.
I would never want to. I would I, I could never imagine
a world in which they undergo the same thing I did.
I would never want them to undergo the same thing because
they're human. They deserve more than that.
They deserve justice and they deserve dignity, right?
But, but so to accuse someone of that, you have to see them as
subhuman. So they saw me as subhuman,
right? But then also they destroy
themselves in the process. Because when you accuse someone
innocent, you kind of you, you undignify yourself.
So they destroyed themselves in the process, but also they
destroyed the justice system, which is the only means by which
our society remains civil. Because without an appropriate
system of justice, then people only take that they take justice
into their own hands, right. So it's like what we rely on,
you know, to remain civil as a society is what they were
destroying. So it's like the most important
thing is what they were abusing. So it's like there has to be
accountability for that. There has to be.
And like I, I hate to say, I hope I and I, I, I will do
everything in my power. I hope there is accountability,
Of course, you know, it's a dangerous feeling of hope,
right? But, you know, I guess now that
we're talking about, I guess I do hope there is I there has to
be there seems fair. Yeah.
I mean, there has to be, right? It's like, like, you know how
much we went through, right? Like, how much for for years,
right. Like, you know, Andrew and I, we
would, we would just nightmares every night.
Like there was not one night where we could sleep right, You
know, where my wife would just be crying, like, you know, all
the time, just just thinking that I was going to be in prison
for 10 years for doing the right thing.
Right. That is really hard to forgive
that that feeling. And The thing is, it's, it's
only God can forgive. What these people need is
accountability, right? So they, I, I believe what they
did was illegal, right? They had abused their authority.
There are already laws that say if people abuse their authority
and send people to jail for their own political benefit,
right? That's a crime.
I believe that they should be held to the same standards as
everyone else. Yeah, there has to be, because
how else do you recover from that?
One of the things you mentioned, there's a word that you said
that's very specific, the word dehumanize.
Do you see any historical analogs?
I don't want to put my own lens on this, but.
Yeah, I mean, it's like in the Soviet Union when you read like
Solzhenitsyn's Gulag Archipelago, right, When you had
the the Russians who were being sent to gulags, you know, they
had like this phony, you know, system of law that they would
send people. Like if you criticize the
government, if you lied, it was either 10 or 20 years in the
gulag. But like what Solzhenitsyn talks
about in the book is that the dehumanizing effect of like,
like and, and that's what Soshinistin had to recover while
he was in the camps because during one of the chapters, I
think it's called the ascent or the ascending, right?
Which is where the famous quote comes from, where the line
between good and evil is not between nations, it's not
between states, it's not between, you know anything else.
It's the line goes in between each human heart, right?
And it was like once you realize that each part of us can be
complicit and evil just as much as we can be complicit and good.
But for these people to to take away the the system of justice
from another human is to dehumanize themselves, right?
It's to take a step towards the line of evil, right?
To dehumanize not only their target, but also themselves.
And so of course, you know, this is a story that is the most
human of stories. This is something that we've
gone through a million times before.
This is just a replay. And another famous socialist
quote. I think it's him where he says,
you know, like history doesn't repeat itself, but it rhymes,
right? Like this is it right?
This is just another play on something that's happened
before. It seems like that's going to be
the legacy of the Twenty 20s dehumanization.
I don't know why we have to repeat that every 60 or 80
years, but it does seem like a real thing.
I mean, that's what they did to you, right?
They dehumanized. You they did it to your patients
during COVID as well, did they not?
Yeah, yeah, because it's it's not the first time you've even
talked about it in the last two hours.
Yeah, yeah. And it's like when you see other
people dehumanized, like, you feel a need to stand up for
those who are dehumanized. What was happening to these kids
at the transgender clinic? They were being dehumanized,
like, in the most physical way possible because the human soul,
right, is what was being ripped out of their bodies with the
assistance of medications and hormones and surgery, right?
And and they were actually being dehumanized.
Yeah. Like the name that they were
born into this world was, was now their dead name, right.
Like, what other way to dehumanize someone than that,
Right. And it's like, so, right.
You have to stand up for that. But then when they dehumanize
me, it's like, no, no, you can't do that.
I'm going to fight back, right? And now it's.
Like it it always starts until they they they hit that one
spot. Yeah, yeah.
It's like. Or hit that one person.
And you know, it's, it's another part of the Soshinitsyn.
You know, he, he has this quote that where he talks about like,
I forget what chapter it is in the Gulag Archipelago, but where
he says, if only every single person who the, the secret
police when they showed up to your door, if you said, no, I'm
not going to go with you, I'm going to fight back.
And you fought to the death, how much suffering would be
prevented, right? And like, and I think that's a
lesson for future generations. It's like when the day comes
that someone knocks on your door, you say no, like, I'm not
giving in. I'm not complying with your
corruption. I'm going to fight tooth and
nail. I'm going to fight until the
death because that's what you have to do in order to win.
You know I agree. Yeah.
They can't take us all. No, no, they.
Can't that's that might have been the biggest overstep that
has happened for I don't even think it was people.
Maybe maybe you agree with me. I don't think it was people that
did this. Human beings were the
instrument, but I don't think that was what was driving.
The evil in 2020, I think it was the evil force.
You know, it's, it's the those forces that you can't
necessarily like, you know, acknowledge in polite company,
but you know, those forces exist.
It's the forces that are the driving impetus between good and
evil, something that you know, runs, you know, in the middle of
each human soul, right? It's the difference between good
and evil, right? This is, you know, God and and
the devil. Yeah, the demonic that that runs
out there and pursues its own end to the detriment of even the
people that are that are implementing it, because none of
those people that went after you are any better off for it.
No, no, And that's The thing is, you know, it's like I, there's a
certain sadness I feel for them, for Tina Ansari and Paul Nixon
and Hamdani, because like they didn't have to be like this.
They, they could live a better life, you know, like TCH, it's
an amazing hospital. They do amazing work.
Like they can, they can live, they can do such, so much
better, but they choose not to. And I think that's very
unfortunate because where where there's a potential for evil,
there's also potential for good, you know?
They do well. They they for both of us, I
think they destroyed the, the legal institutions that look
very, very different after this last couple years for you and I
think for a lot of people after COVID, the medical institutions
have lost a lot of the shine. What other institutions do you
think have really been debased in the last couple?
Years every institution. So the legal institution, right?
So like law firms because like there was no law firm that would
be willing to take my case. I mean, thank God for Marcelo
Burke, the Burke Law Group and the attorneys who represented
me, Mark Lytle, Ryan Patrick, right?
I mean, they're heroes, but like all these law firms would not
have represented me because it was a quote UN quote
controversial case. They would represent child
rapists, right, in murderers and like, you know, like Ponzi
scheme criminals, but not me, someone who stood up for
children, right, because it's a conservative cause because.
There's politics involved in it. Exactly.
Yeah. And it's on the wrong side of
those politics. But you know, so it's the
education system, the medical system, police departments, the
FBI, the DOJ, right. You know, you had psychologist,
psychiatry, every establishment institution in this country had
been based because they had participated in the lies.
So where do we go doc? What comes up next do you think?
You know, I think for me it's gradually fade out into
obscurity. You know, I'll try to raise as
much money just to pay our legal bills, but most likely we won't
be able to and we'll just pay it off over the next couple of
decades, which sucks. You know, probably with Social
Security, I'll probably pay legal bills with our Social
Security checks when we're like 70 years old because the age,
you know, they should raise the age.
I mean, you know, separate issue, but they should raise the
age for Social Security. But you know.
Yeah, we need one of these. We need somebody to come in and
and maybe underwrite this cause because it was the right 'cause.
Yeah, I hope so. I'm not holding my breath
because if there's one group of people, I am not, you know, the
other institution is conservative donors, right?
I mean, it's though I've, I've talked to so many conservative,
conservative donors, right? Like, Oh yeah, you know, we'll
help you out. They're so nice to you in
person. They say, Oh yeah, I'll text,
I'll call. They make all these promises,
let you know and grant, I'm not, I'm not begging for their
support. You know, it's like, I would
love it. It'd be great.
But like, you know, we can do it on our own with the help of the
American people. But like every single one of
these donors never respond. It's an.
Interesting problem. Yeah, I'm and, and then the same
people, a lot of them will turn around and write a check to like
some political organization that doesn't do anything except pay
think tank guys and stuff. And it's an interesting dynamic.
Yeah. It is an interesting dynamic.
I'm I'm not mad at them. They can do what they want with
their own money. And and that's The thing is like
it, there's no hard feelings. It's like, yeah, because it is
their money I have. No, it's kind of just an eye
opening moment to see what what is and it's not valuable.
Yeah, because like, it's their money.
They have a right to if they don't want to donate.
Oh man, that's totally fine, no problem.
But it's just to see what other things they donate to is kind of
revealing. All right, what are the what are
the good things that have come out of this?
If anything give me a couple of high.
Points. I'll tell you what I mean.
Everything is positive, right? It's like, but with within the
darkness. You have to find the light.
I mean, my wife and I, it's like I've never loved my wife more
than I do today, right? I, I look at my daughter's eyes,
it's like it's just happiness and beauty and, and, and
potential, you know, for myself, it's like, I never thought I
could get through something like this.
Like, like I told my attorneys in the very beginning, like a
crazy person, right? Like, we have to, to fight
against the most powerful federal leviathan in human
history. Number one, we have to beat this
case. Number one, we have to raise
over $1,000,000. Number two, I was wrong.
It should have been $2,000,000. But still we raised over
$1,000,000. And we have to somehow, you
know, gather the most prominent conservative voices in the
country to speak out for our cause because that's the only
way we're going to fight back. And I did all of those things.
And I was just a random dude. I was just a random guy.
I was a no one, you know, but we were able to do it.
And it's like like I was AI believed in myself.
I believed my wife believed in me, I believed in her and I
believed in my attorneys. It's like that's an awesome
thing, man. Like our relationships like man,
like you're awesome, dude. Like, you know, I would consider
you a friend for sure. There's so many good
relationships from this and, and it's like, yeah, there were some
bad stuff, nothing compared to the good because it's like it's,
it's a privilege to be able to take on this fight and to fight
against the most evil forces known to mankind, right.
Like, that's something to, to, to be a part of.
That's a fight to be a part of, man.
It's also great not to. To become the thing that they've
accused you of being, to rise above it.
Here you are. You're looking for the good out
of it. You didn't become some angry,
miserable, you know, just, you know, spiteful human.
No, no. And it's kind of like when I
talk about anger, it's like, it's not like the spiteful
anger, it's like the the motivating anger.
It's like anger, indignation. I'm going to give you a name.
For it. Oh, yeah.
Like I like, what's the guy's name who wrote the book?
Righteous indignation. Breitbart.
Andrew Breitbart. Yeah, Yeah.
It's righteous indignation where like, we should be righteously
indignant. We should be angry, but it
should be like the type of anger where like, you don't need to
eat, you don't need to sleep. Where like you can walk through
a burning building and you can't get burned because the inferno
that is burning inside of your heart is so much hotter than
like any flames that are outside, which is like how this
is possible. It's like, like the only way to
make it through something like this is to, to be like, you
know, animated by this righteous indignation, like this anger,
right? But it's not spite, it's not
vengeance. It's justice.
It's goodness, it's beauty, it's love.
Amen Doc. Amen, man, Amen.
How good was it getting all your weapons back?
It was it was like a, you know, like like those ROM coms where
you have like two people come together at the last scene and
they embrace each other. So my wife and I had that.
But if there was anything I could have with like an
inanimate object, it was like my guns because I love, I mean,
it's just something I spend so much time on.
I love shooting, you know, every weekend since I've gone shooting
and it was, you know, to be able to protect my family, to be able
to my favorite hobby, right. It's like building guns,
shooting guns. It's like, it's great, man.
I saw the picture you put out on on X, which was great to see,
going out there and getting reunited with your stuff.
And yeah, it's stuff, but we're dudes and dudes like stuff.
And that's your stuff. They're tools.
They're tools of protection, you know, of, of they're the things
that we use to protect our rights, to protect our families.
I remember watching You should do this, have your wife do this.
It's really a weird throwback. If you want to know about what
Ruff looked like, because we all kind of, we have a sense of it
now, right, go watch the Little House on the Prairie.
And I keep telling people to do this.
I've told people like 10 people in the last couple years, go out
and watch the Little House on the Prairie, the original pilot
episode. And I'll just tell you what
happens because it's been written and it's not new.
It's not a spoiler at this point because the process is what's
important. But the, the wild family, is it
the Engel family? Whatever.
Laura Ingalls Wilder, I think it's Engel family.
Yeah. They they go out on the the
Prairie, they leave the big wood.
Dad only brings a couple things with him.
He brings a couple of like pillows or some skirts, some
clothes that's warm, and his rifle and a dog, you know.
And they go and they build his house and they scratch the
living out of nothing. And they build up the cabin and
they're staying in there and the catches on fire and they save it
from a wildfire. And the Indians come and all the
other wild stuff that goes on and they almost starved to death
and they almost died a million times.
And then the federal government comes and kicks them out of
their house and says they gave the land back to the Indians.
And so the plow that they had and the crops that they grew
and, like all the stuff they have to leave it all behind.
And he leaves with his rifle. Because 200 years ago, there
were only a few things that you really needed to be able to
survive. And so there's an instinct, a
primal instinct, I think, for men.
Yeah. To have that tool, it's like the
end of the day, I can determine whether somebody comes through
my door. Yeah.
It's important.
Especially when you have people who you care about you, you
know, your your wife, your kid. It's like, yeah, it's like this
need as a father, I have to protect my daughter.
As a husband, I have to protect my wife.
That's it. It's the most basic stuff
anyway. Go watch, watch that with her.
And then you'll also get kind of another sense of like, man,
we've got it so easy in this time.
Yeah, yeah. Not not discounting any of the
things that you've been through or any of the things that my
family seems well, but yeah, you just go like, oh, man, it could
be so much more primal. It was a lot.
It was a civilized fight that you were involved in.
An ugly one, no, no doubt, but. Yeah, but definitely civilized,
that's for sure. No one got scalloped.
That's right, nobody got scalloped.
What's the best way that people can do?
How about who are some people that we think might want to,
what might want to write that check that's going to help you
out? Because I, I don't want you to
be in a debt of $1,000,000 and I want to do what I can to try to
help it. And I'm happy to start writing
letters too. Everybody needs a little bit of
money right now, but this seems like one of those holes that
should be filled in because it's really righteous.
Yeah, I, I like the easiest person obviously, is Elon Musk
because he's like the richest person in the world.
You know I may. Have an in on that.
OK. So OK, we'll do that.
Yeah, good. But you know, I, I don't want to
make this appear like I'm like demanding anything.
It would just be cool. That'd be cool.
But. It's a rounding error for him
too, probably. Yeah, and he's got important
things going on. So it's like, I'm telling you,
man, totally cool. Like we'll pay it off over
decades. It's fine, you know.
You didn't want Social Security anyway.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's like, but like and but
you know, the the reason I say that is because X intervened in
my case, you know, about the gag order.
Did they? Yeah, they were.
They were an interested party, just like TCH or Baylor.
Did you hear from like, was it Shaif Jaffe?
Was that the attorneys? You know what?
I think so. Yeah, yeah, They reached out to
me the other day. Oh, really?
Yeah, they want to sue the federal government with me.
Yeah, you should. Yeah, they're good.
They're legit people. They're I can, I can just from
my own, you know, personal experience, I can tell you that
they're legit, like, and and they intervened in my case.
I'm just a random guy, but they're willing to stand up for
the little person X, right. So they're really about what
they say. They're about free speech
because my case was about free speech more so than anything
else. Truly, it is.
It's maybe that's one of the biggest redeeming things for
most people to see is that some of these folks, there's a lot of
people out there that are fakes. Would you agree?
Oh, yeah, yeah. But you know, Elon Musk in ex.
No, no, no. Babylon B the Babylon B her meet
Dylan. Oh, man, they're the real Dylan.
Holy crap. I mean, you, you know, the the
suspendables. Gary O Boyle, Steve Friend, you
know, Cash Patel, you know, too many people, you know, are these
are their. Yeah, Good, good people, really
good people. Simone Gold, you know, she's
great. Love her and.
We can just do like a love fest on all the people.
I really appreciate that you have such a positive attitude
out of this. I just want to, I want to tell
you that we're praying for you. We've been praying for you.
I'm so grateful that you had the outcome you did.
I know the audience is going to be really excited about it too,
if they haven't been paying attention.
I'm I'm glad I got to talk to you on the day was dismissed.
Even if you had a couple of bottles, a bottle of champagne
cracked open already. It it, it made my day.
It probably made you. Know I'll tell you what you
know. It's like those prayers were
heard, man. Yeah, they were.
They were hurt. All right, let's leave it on
that, folks. Say a prayer for the doc and his
family, for this country, for the folks that are out there
doing the right thing, and pray that you are ready too, that
when that moment comes, you're ready because you don't.
You don't get to get very many second shots at that.
You don't get another bite at the apple usually.
You usually got a yes or no. Thank you man, it was a
privilege. And that is the Sunday sit down.
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