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Welcome to the everyday p.m. 
podcast of how castlereagh 

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discuss project management 
principles for your everyday 

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life. 
My name is Anne campea and I am 

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a certified projects last 
program manager with a kind of 

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years of experience working for 
healthcare retail. 

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Consumer, goods Tech marketing. 
I've been kind of all across the

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industries here in In the p.m. 
world, I am so excited to 

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welcome. 
David Rose who is an 

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entrepreneur, MIT lecturer 
author and expert on digital. 

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Innovate product Innovation. 
He is also going to introduce us

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to some of the more recent books
that he has written. 

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But David, before I do your 
intro anymore, Injustice, please

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take a brief moment to introduce
yourself to our audience. 

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Sure. 
Hi on. 

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So, I am a product leader and 
have Alton number of products 

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that are being used by many, 
many people. 

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I my career started off when I 
was at the media, lab at MIT, 

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worked on the LEGO Mindstorms 
project, which was a robotics 

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invention kit that hopefully has
taught. 

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A lot of people how to kind of 
Be Inspired to build things with

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Legos that they that they 
imagined, but then also to put 

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behaviors into those into those 
things so that they could. 

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Build robots that have the can 
animate and respond to sound and

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lights. 
I worked on Guitar Hero early 

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also in my career which tried to
kind of democratize making music

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and jamming with other people. 
I know a lot of people use that 

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I started a company called 
ambient devices, that created 

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little Wireless objects that 
make you aware of information 

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throughout the day. 
So the ambient or by have 

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actually an ambient word here 
lights up to show you things 

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like What the stock market is 
doing or what the weather is 

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doing or what when the next bus 
is coming or how many steps 

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you've walked or other kind of 
glanceable information and I 

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wrote a book called Enchanted 
objects, all about iot and 

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recently I've been really 
interested in augmented reality.

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Like that is how to kind of 
create a metaverse out of the 

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real world and superimpose 
information that could be useful

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throughout people's day. 
And one of those things that we 

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can talk about is boating. 
Because I'm kind of taking the 

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world of self-driving technology
and applying it to the marine 

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environment. 
Great awesome. 

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You know, when there was an 
Outreach from your team on 

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whether or not you would be a 
great fit for the everyday p.m. 

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the everyday project manager, I 
saw your bio and I thought holy 

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crap, there are a thousand 
things that are a great fit for 

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this podcast. 
I mean we could have gone every 

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which way with this interview in
terms of talking about product 

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that Asian talking talking about
AR. 

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I just want to start off by 
entry Ali. 

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Introducing yourself to the 
audience in terms of your 

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professional Journey. 
Because it's so fascinating. 

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How people get to where they are
and their space today? 

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And I looked at your bio BP of 
Warby Parker at one point. 

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I mean, there's just a lot of 
steps and Milestones that I 

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learned about you, that I'm so 
fascinated to share them with 

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our audience. 
So, take us through the 

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professional journey and how you
got to where you are today. 

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Day. 
Sure will, I think I've always 

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been kind of open to finding new
opportunities for Innovation. 

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Many of them have been kind of 
made possible with new 

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technologies. 
So when I graduated from 

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undergrad, I grew up in the 
Midwest and did a physics major 

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and a fine arts major because I 
was kind of equally interested 

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in science and and designed the 
credible. 

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And you know, when I was 
Thinking about what to do as a 

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career. 
You know, obviously architecture

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came to mind but when I went and
did a lot of informational 

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interviews and architecture 
firms, I found a lot of people 

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pretty frustrated because they 
said, you know, this this is 

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such an established field. 
That as a new architect you 

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really end up doing a lot of 
things that aren't very creative

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for the first 10 years of your 
of your career because there's 

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so many people that are 
Architects and into architecture

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and trained as Architects that 
it's it's not really a 

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Greenfield opportunity. 
So instead I got very excited 

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about Museum exhibit design 
which oftentimes if you're 

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working for a science museum or 
even a history museum trying to 

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do a simulation like you are 
FDR, are you going to jump into 

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World War Two and and you know 
respond to Churchill that was 

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one of the simulations that we 
created. 

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You know, you kind of get to 
learn a lot quickly about either

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scanning electron microscopy for
the for this. 

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For that for the Boston Museum 
of Science which was one of our 

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first projects that I did as a 
created. 

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A my first company to do Museum 
exhibit design and that was one 

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of our first projects was 
helping to explain this very 

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technical thing to a very broad 
audience. 

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And so we got to use kind of the
tools that were available at the

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time, which were touch screens 
and expensive, computers, and 

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animation and multimedia. 
And then the web emerged and And

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like that offered another set of
potential and Technologies. 

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And I created one of the first 
photo sharing websites kind of 

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this was before. 
It was a good idea because it 

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was already your digital photos 
online. 

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But I would say kind of with 
with every with every chapter of

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new technologies and the 
democratization of, you know, 

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what we could do with embedding 
sensors and to everyday. 

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X or creating new musical 
instruments or creating iot, you

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know, connected connected 
objects and now with glasses 

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that can embed information in 
terms of, you know, kind of are 

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pods in the temples of the 
glasses. 

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Like what bows is doing or even 
project information into 

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blending, what you see in the 
real world with information 

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though. 
That's another advancement Vance

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and technology that You know, as
a designer gives us kind of a 

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new field to explore and design.
I love it. 

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And there's to your point there 
seems to be some connectivity 

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between all of the choices that 
you made in your professional 

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Journey with Innovation and 
creativity and the evolution of 

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just the things that are 
available to us. 

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And and that was the first 
connection point that I made to 

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our project management 
Community. 

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Is that even in project 
management as Anna boring, Our 

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profession sound sometimes is 
that with Innovation comes new 

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ways of being a p.m. as well and
and how you're saying, you know,

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each product kind of came as an 
idea from something that 

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happened before it, you know, 
and p.m. there's always this 

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evolution of the way we do 
things and very very often and 

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actually in 2023 in particular 
as we talk about the trends that

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are happening in our industry, a
lot of what's going to evolve at

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least what's projected is that. 
It's going to To progress with 

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AI and and this introduction of 
Automation and and theme tools 

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that PM's can use to mimic the 
repetitive behavior and what we 

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do so that we can start to get 
creative and Innovative and and 

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other areas that we often don't 
have time to even think about 

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our look at. 
So I love that there's this 

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Synergy between kind of the way 
that you've portrayed your 

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professional journey and with 
everything that you've created, 

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I'm just in awe that and I think
that there is something to say 

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about The way that can show 
project managers how we can also

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evolve with the tools that are 
available and and when there are

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not tools available, you were 
still able to create some 

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amazing things. 
So thank you, David. 

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That was great. 
It was rarely, I mean to your 

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point about project management, 
like it's rarely me, it's merely

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only me. 
Like, if we take this product, 

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which this is an 
internet-connected medication 

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cap that goes on ordinary pill. 
Vials So if somebody has a heart

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transplant or a liver transplant
and they really need to take 

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like the immunosuppressant so 
they don't reject the new kidney

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or heart or liver. 
It's there are some medications 

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that are incredibly important to
you know, they're prescribed but

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not taken very regularly and so 
we kind of we understood that 

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this was an issue. 
I put together a team of people 

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that included people that were 
industrial designers that Could,

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you know, kind of craft 
beautiful forms mechanical 

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engineers, that could figure out
kind of how it could attach 

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electrical engineers. 
That could figure out how to 

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create, you know, how to make a 
watch battery that you could 

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insert in this last for nine 
months and make sounds. 

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This makes a kind of arpeggios 
when it's time to take your 

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meds. 
That kind of tap you on the 

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shoulder or acoustically. 
It also blinks like a bike 

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lights to kind of try to get 
your attention. 

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Attention without being too 
obnoxious. 

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And we had to work with AT&T 
about Telco in order to connect 

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it to the Internet. 
So this just jumps to a night 

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light, which is really a 
cellular modem, you know, the 

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guts of a cell phone that you 
plug into the wall. 

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Just like you plug a nightlight 
in. 

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And so, it was kind of the 
combination of people that knew 

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specific things about their 
craft and then being led by 

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somebody who had a vision of How
do we make, you know, medication

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adherence something that is that
is easier and something that 

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people will welcome into their 
lives, you know, that will be 

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given away for free at the 
pharmacy, the business model was

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look Pharma companies. 
You're going to sell a lot more 

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meds because people going to be 
taking them more regularly. 

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So, there's a big lift in the 
potential for Pharma companies, 

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when medical insurance companies
win. 

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And because you don't go to the 
office, you don't have 

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unnecessary hospitalizations 
people are healthier because 

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they're taking the medications 
that they're prescribed and you 

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know so it was kind of it was a 
vision. 

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It was designed, it was 
packaging design. 

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It was an earring like kind of 
assembling all those people. 

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That's been the story for 
anything that I've built over. 

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Time is kind of how do you know 
enough, technically about the 

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Process that each of these 
disciplines needs to go through 

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in order to coordinate the kind 
of vision and make sure that 

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everyone is has a fire under 
there. 

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But in order to make it happen. 
Yeah. 

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Very often we got it be the 
ones, lighting it. 

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Yes, absolutely. 
And for those that are listening

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or watching that was such a 
wonderful use case for you. 

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I would recommend if you're 
listening to this episode, go 

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back to the beginning of what 
David just said because he 

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starts with With we identified a
gap or we identified a problem 

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or some sort of use case, that 
would be beneficial if we could 

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solve for our end users. 
And in this case, it's people 

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who are in medic medication. 
And I have worked in the product

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development space and been able 
to see the brain storing 

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storming sessions, the 
engineering of products and then

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ultimately seeing that in the 
end users hands. 

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But some of the project managers
may be in different Industries 

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where you don't necessarily get 
to be in the Up front part, 

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maybe you're just kind of in the
back and working on the 

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logistics of everything. 
So David can you walk us 

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through? 
How that brainstorming Works? 

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How do you come up with the use 
cases? 

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Because you have so many that 
you've shared already with us 

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that are so fascinating that 
they were able to go to market. 

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So can you talk to us a little 
bit about how that works and how

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do you work with the team on 
that? 

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Sure, I think oftentimes, when a
new projects, the Genesis of a 

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new project is May Come. 
From something that you don't 

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know a lot about you have a kind
of a hunch, right? 

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You have you think, huh? 
Like, for example, with the 

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Boating project that I'm 
currently working on, I had this

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hunch that maps of the 
Appalachian Trail, and of the 

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woods. 
Like are just these kind of 

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beautiful, beautiful 
representations, that pack. 

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A lot of information in and help
you understand kind of the grade

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of something, or the risk of Of 
falling or the how difficult it 

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will be and these topo maps. 
Thanks to other companies like 

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arcgis, which has this GIS is 
graphical Information Systems. 

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They are now available more and 
more because of satellite data. 

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So I thought, well could we take
these kind of maps of the 

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mountains and project them with 
augmented reality into and 

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through the water to give you a 
sense of being able to see 

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through a water surface. 
You know, it's kind of This 

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magical inspiration of like 
could have X-ray vision, you 

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know, in this situation, you 
know, I've the augmented reality

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world has has been kind of doing
projects that have to do with 

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seeing into a machine for for 
being able to see what needs to 

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be fixed. 
Like into an aircraft engine or 

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through the streets of a city to
see infrastructure. 

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So I got really excited about 
this idea of, could you just 

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hold up your phone and see 
through the water? 

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Surface anywhere in the world to
see kind of data elevation 

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models and where to fish. 
And we're not a boat, it's a 

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good background. 
So it was kind of it was first 

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kind of inspiration and I didn't
know if it was a very good idea.

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So I immediately sketched I'd be
happy to show you or maybe a 

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send you afterwards you can cut 
it in. 

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Sure. 
I worked with a graphic designer

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and we kind of sketched a bunch 
of situations where it would be 

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useful. 
Full to see underwater 

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topography superimposed in a 
harbor or in a lake or that kind

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of thing, and we didn't write 
any code at all. 

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We just, we sketch stuff. 
We showed it to people and then 

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we started this kind of customer
research project and went out on

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boats and interviewed boaters 
and said what are the Marine 

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Electronics that you use today? 
And how and do you ever run 

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aground and do ever like, how do
you find fish and how do you 

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keep track of where other boats 
are? 

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So you don't run another? 
And what about the fog? 

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And what about Twilight? 
When you're coming home and it's

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dark out, like how do you, how 
do you navigate? 

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So we kind of Unearthed a lot of
needs and tried to kind of map 

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those to what the existing tools
that boaters had were, and what 

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the price of all of those were 
too, kind of just prove to 

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ourselves like is there a, is 
there a business here, is there 

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kind of a cool idea? 
This new and novel. 

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00:15:37,500 --> 00:15:42,100
And then we wrote a patent for 
anchoring 3D topo maps, over 

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bodies of water. 
And then we hired a team and 

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developed an app that would do 
it. 

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And then after being out on a 
lot of boats with an app like 

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00:15:50,300 --> 00:15:55,300
bumping up and down in the waist
and trying it with a our 

260
00:15:55,300 --> 00:16:00,300
glasses, trying to put the 
information like into your field

261
00:16:00,300 --> 00:16:04,600
of view and realizing well it's 
doesn't really work very well 

262
00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:08,400
because these aren't waterproof 
These are waterproof yet and 

263
00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:12,100
they, yeah, you know, that like 
the projection technology is not

264
00:16:12,100 --> 00:16:15,700
bright enough yet. 
We eventually decided, Well, 

265
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actually to solve this, we 
really need to make out of 

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camera system that goes high up 
on the boat. 

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This is called the lookout 
cameras. 

268
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This is the current the current.
Wow. 

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It's like so this this sits way 
up high on the boat and has a 

270
00:16:28,608 --> 00:16:32,200
360-degree camera system, like a
lot of cars have these these 

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days that sees out with stereo 
vision? 

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00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:41,800
Asian in front of you and can 
try to find small craft or 

273
00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:46,800
things that are in the water or 
people and then it takes that 

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00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:49,400
information and has a video feed
that just shows it on the 

275
00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:51,100
screen, which is right at the 
helm. 

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00:16:52,500 --> 00:16:55,400
And so now that I've got about, 
that's the system were building 

277
00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:58,600
and it turns out it's like 
Hardware plus a game engine. 

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We're using Unity as a game 
engine and vision. 

279
00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:05,599
And so from a cup from a project
management perspective, it's 

280
00:17:05,599 --> 00:17:10,500
kind It's a lot right now. 
Yeah, because it's, you know, 

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00:17:10,500 --> 00:17:14,400
it's a relationship with a 
contract manufacturer in Norway.

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Who's going to build the 
product? 

283
00:17:15,900 --> 00:17:19,500
It's a engineering team that's 
based in Cincinnati. 

284
00:17:19,500 --> 00:17:24,599
It's a software development team
that does a game engine. 

285
00:17:25,599 --> 00:17:30,300
He's the based in London, it's 
a, it's a interaction design 

286
00:17:30,300 --> 00:17:33,000
firm and a graphic design firm, 
and a branding firm that's based

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00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:36,400
in Florida. 
So, it's like can Working with a

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00:17:36,408 --> 00:17:40,400
boating company that's based 
down in Florida. 

289
00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:45,300
So it's a lot of moving Parts. 
I think for me, one of the kind 

290
00:17:45,300 --> 00:17:47,500
of aha's for the for this 
project. 

291
00:17:47,500 --> 00:17:54,500
It's called Clearwater is create
these kind of moments, that 

292
00:17:54,500 --> 00:17:59,300
things must be delivered, 
because we're going to go to 

293
00:17:59,300 --> 00:18:02,000
Khan. 
We're going to fly everybody to 

294
00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:05,600
con, and we're going to show 
this to boating companies. 

295
00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:08,200
It's kind of gotta work, you 
know. 

296
00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:13,400
So yeah, I'm always trying to 
kind of create a deadline moment

297
00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:18,000
that can also be a summit kind 
of experience that somewhere 

298
00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:22,900
between, you know, three weeks 
and seven weeks out. 

299
00:18:23,700 --> 00:18:27,200
So that everyone feels like, oh 
well, let's figure out what we 

300
00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:30,300
can achieve in that Sprint of 
time. 

301
00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:32,600
So yeah. 
And we can all come together and

302
00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:34,800
work together and solve problems
and get out of the water 

303
00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:38,200
together. 
In order to, you know, kind of 

304
00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:41,300
take the product to the next 
level, which won't be done, but 

305
00:18:41,300 --> 00:18:45,000
it will again, will be the next 
important Milestone that 

306
00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:48,500
everyone's really working and 
cramming for sure. 

307
00:18:48,500 --> 00:18:53,100
So setting realistic deadlines 
as best as you can being being 

308
00:18:53,100 --> 00:18:55,500
realistic about this 
materialistic. 

309
00:18:56,800 --> 00:18:59,300
It's more. 
Just like it's just, it's 

310
00:18:59,300 --> 00:19:01,100
setting. 
These kind of intermediary or 

311
00:19:01,100 --> 00:19:07,700
intermediate Intermediate 
deadlines like intermediate kind

312
00:19:07,700 --> 00:19:09,400
of Sprint. 
Sprint points. 

313
00:19:09,900 --> 00:19:12,900
Yeah, because I can imagine with
a project this big and then 

314
00:19:12,900 --> 00:19:15,400
there's just so many moving 
pieces and you don't know what's

315
00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:18,800
going to work and what's not 
that that helped settle the team

316
00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:22,900
in a way that you know there's 
there's smaller more consumable 

317
00:19:23,500 --> 00:19:26,800
B of the project that they can 
work towards. 

318
00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:30,400
I think a lot of what comes with
being a project manager. 

319
00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:34,900
Is there's a finite, there's a 
defined and To a project then 

320
00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:38,000
that most most people that go 
into project management. 

321
00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:42,000
That's where they find their 
satisfaction is when they 

322
00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:44,900
actually finish something 
accomplish something and have 

323
00:19:44,900 --> 00:19:48,500
that feeling of, hey, I made 
this or I had contributed to 

324
00:19:48,500 --> 00:19:52,900
this project and for you to set 
those intermediary steps as 

325
00:19:52,900 --> 00:19:55,300
probably very helpful for the 
team to feel like they're 

326
00:19:55,300 --> 00:19:57,600
progressing towards the bigger 
picture. 

327
00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:01,600
So I think one of the things 
that I'm trying to think about 

328
00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:04,300
transitioning into because I 
want to ask you, About another 

329
00:20:04,300 --> 00:20:08,600
innovation of yours is when 
dealing with the Boating project

330
00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:12,400
right now I'm sure communication
across all of the multitude of 

331
00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:15,600
teams that you're working with 
is key, making sure that people 

332
00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:17,800
are communicating and 
understanding where everything 

333
00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:20,100
is at. 
Now, there's an invention that I

334
00:20:20,100 --> 00:20:23,700
saw that you created which is 
the conversational balance 

335
00:20:23,700 --> 00:20:28,800
table, and I don't know how long
ago that was done but you 

336
00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:32,300
created it for Salesforce to 
increase team, communication and

337
00:20:32,300 --> 00:20:36,400
collaboration I'm fascinated by 
that, just because a lot of what

338
00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:39,900
we do is Project managers is 
Shepherd, and communication. 

339
00:20:39,900 --> 00:20:42,100
We are harboring the 
communication between the teams 

340
00:20:42,100 --> 00:20:44,000
breaking down the silos and that
sort of thing. 

341
00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:48,700
So, when it comes to this 
particular thing that you have 

342
00:20:48,700 --> 00:20:51,000
created, the conversational 
balance table. 

343
00:20:51,500 --> 00:20:54,700
How, how did that come about? 
How did it work out? 

344
00:20:54,700 --> 00:20:57,100
Do you find that it was 
effective? 

345
00:20:57,200 --> 00:20:59,400
Did it give you the results that
you are looking for? 

346
00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:01,400
Would love to learn more about 
that. 

347
00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:08,500
Yeah, I so the inspiration 
really for this came from a book

348
00:21:08,500 --> 00:21:12,900
by Susan, Cain called quiet and 
it makes the point that in 

349
00:21:12,900 --> 00:21:16,200
organizations and teams, you 
have extroverts and introverts. 

350
00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:18,900
And usually, they have just as 
many good ideas. 

351
00:21:18,900 --> 00:21:22,500
As each other, the introverts 
have plenty of good ideas, but 

352
00:21:22,500 --> 00:21:26,500
the extroverts tend to kind of 
Dominate. 

353
00:21:26,500 --> 00:21:30,400
And like not let out those good 
ideas that the introverts have 

354
00:21:30,900 --> 00:21:35,000
and through You know, through my
work with ambient devices. 

355
00:21:36,300 --> 00:21:38,600
You know, the orb is like a 
feedback device. 

356
00:21:38,700 --> 00:21:42,600
No, it gives you, it helps you 
see like have I walked as many 

357
00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:45,400
steps as I want to walk and that
is expressed through a color. 

358
00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:48,500
And the the information is 
really good like glanceable and 

359
00:21:48,500 --> 00:21:52,600
so the feedback loops are fast 
so you don't have to have, you 

360
00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:55,100
know, have to go to an app at 
the end of the day and say how 

361
00:21:55,100 --> 00:21:58,300
many steps did I walk but 
instead like you kind of want 

362
00:21:58,300 --> 00:22:04,300
feedback loops to to motivate a 
In behavior in the moments, you 

363
00:22:04,300 --> 00:22:07,300
know, or rather than having to 
do a big retro at the end of the

364
00:22:07,300 --> 00:22:09,900
week. 
You'd rather have teams provide 

365
00:22:09,900 --> 00:22:13,400
feedback to each other, and kind
of subtle ways, I think, as 

366
00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:17,700
we're like, if you're a 
facilitator in a meeting, you 

367
00:22:17,700 --> 00:22:23,500
kind of want to do things that 
subtly encourage people who 

368
00:22:23,500 --> 00:22:26,600
aren't contributing to kind of, 
you know, say something. 

369
00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:29,400
And so, if you're in a 
facilitator, you might like use 

370
00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:33,000
your hands and gesture and say, 
you know what about you You or 

371
00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:36,400
or ask or ask somebody who's 
speaking too much, like you 

372
00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:38,900
might even kind of put your hand
on their shoulder, maybe there's

373
00:22:38,900 --> 00:22:41,100
something kind of. 
Yeah, push them down. 

374
00:22:41,300 --> 00:22:44,300
So, the inspiration came from, 
how could we embed feed a 

375
00:22:44,300 --> 00:22:47,500
feedback mechanism into 
furniture that people are 

376
00:22:47,500 --> 00:22:51,400
already sitting at. 
So this was a six-sided table 

377
00:22:51,700 --> 00:22:54,800
like a table for six people that
had six kind of facets around 

378
00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:59,800
it. 
Yeah, it lights up this kind of 

379
00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:02,200
beautiful, almost like a star 
constellations. 

380
00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:07,300
Section underneath the veneer of
the table as people speak in 

381
00:23:07,300 --> 00:23:11,100
front of them. 
So you can at any point minutes 

382
00:23:11,100 --> 00:23:13,600
into the conversation, you kind 
of just looked down at the table

383
00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:16,700
surface and it shows you 
graphically like the 

384
00:23:16,700 --> 00:23:22,400
contribution of each person over
the last 20 minutes and the, the

385
00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:26,200
behavior is very slow. 
So it's kind of not shocking 

386
00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:31,200
anyone but it's also evidence. 
So you can see like this this 

387
00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:34,300
this person has Been dominating 
this person hasn't said, much at

388
00:23:34,300 --> 00:23:38,400
all and hopefully people kind of
glance down and kind of 

389
00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:43,800
subconsciously see this and can 
moderate and regulate their own 

390
00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:47,500
behavior. 
And maybe it's appropriate for 

391
00:23:47,500 --> 00:23:49,700
certain types of meetings for 
certain people to say a lot in 

392
00:23:49,700 --> 00:23:51,800
for certain, but at least you 
have like, kind of a little bit 

393
00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:56,900
of evidence of what's happening.
And and so it can be clear, like

394
00:23:56,900 --> 00:23:59,300
that feedback mechanism can be 
clearer. 

395
00:23:59,900 --> 00:24:02,100
And so we I worked with an 
Architecture Firm. 

396
00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:05,000
One of the biggest in the world 
called gansler they were 

397
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:09,000
designing the new Salesforce 
offices and they were kind of 

398
00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:13,600
interested in. 
How could you make more sensing 

399
00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:18,100
and kind of passive feedback 
mechanisms that were embedded in

400
00:24:18,100 --> 00:24:20,900
the space itself? 
Another thing we did was a 

401
00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:24,700
brainstorming table that would 
listen to the conversation and 

402
00:24:24,700 --> 00:24:28,900
put them images almost like a 
how tenuous Google image search 

403
00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:32,100
just as like a as to kind of get
people to think. 

404
00:24:32,300 --> 00:24:35,200
Think more nonlinearly kind of 
out of the box. 

405
00:24:35,300 --> 00:24:38,100
But the balance table was really
about this, you know, giving 

406
00:24:38,100 --> 00:24:40,900
people just feedback on 
Contraband on kind of 

407
00:24:40,900 --> 00:24:44,300
contribution percentage. 
And right now I can tell like, 

408
00:24:44,300 --> 00:24:47,000
I'm talking way too much. 
No, no, that's a bad. 

409
00:24:48,700 --> 00:24:52,900
My mouth is probably open 
because I'm just so fascinated 

410
00:24:52,900 --> 00:24:56,800
by that. 
I always, I often think of how 

411
00:24:56,800 --> 00:25:01,500
great would it be to introduce 
more innovative ideas to things 

412
00:25:01,500 --> 00:25:03,900
as mundane. 
It's a weekly status call, 

413
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:07,000
right? 
And so the what you're 

414
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:10,200
describing is just something 
that would completely break the 

415
00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:14,900
mold of what we're used to. 
And I was so in awe of that and 

416
00:25:14,900 --> 00:25:19,900
where that came from. 
And I'm I would be interested to

417
00:25:19,900 --> 00:25:24,400
see if I use it in my own space.
If what would come out of it, 

418
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:27,400
but you're right. 
I think, I think we usually 

419
00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:29,800
leave meetings thinking. 
Oh, well, there was only one 

420
00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:31,800
person contributing or why was 
it? 

421
00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:34,200
Why was Is that a meeting that 
could have been an email type of

422
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:37,700
conversation so it's those 
things that come to mind on our 

423
00:25:37,700 --> 00:25:40,700
day-to-day that can often lead 
to something as really cool and 

424
00:25:40,700 --> 00:25:42,500
Innovative as what you've 
described. 

425
00:25:42,500 --> 00:25:46,000
And hopefully the folks that 
actually got to test it out or 

426
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:49,500
currently using, it are finding 
the beneficial but I would 

427
00:25:49,500 --> 00:25:53,100
imagine it would it would if 
there's like a sociology or 

428
00:25:53,100 --> 00:25:57,200
psychology to it as well in 
terms of how people interact and

429
00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:01,300
them understanding, if they're, 
if they are extroverts and 

430
00:26:01,300 --> 00:26:04,400
introverts or Or what not in a 
meeting space. 

431
00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:07,400
So, that's that's really cool. 
David now, have you if people 

432
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:10,500
want to see a video of it, 
there's a there's a website that

433
00:26:10,508 --> 00:26:15,900
goes with my book that's called 
haircut supersite dot world and 

434
00:26:15,900 --> 00:26:18,600
it has videos of the 
conversational balance table and

435
00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:24,700
the Boating application. 
And some project that's about 

436
00:26:24,700 --> 00:26:29,800
redesigning with algorithms 
Landscapes outside people's 

437
00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:32,000
homes to have more shade trees 
more. 

438
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:35,600
Natural. 
Pollinators less grass to to 

439
00:26:36,300 --> 00:26:41,100
poison with with your chemicals.
So that's another that's another

440
00:26:41,100 --> 00:26:43,600
project called home outside. 
That's, um, I'm really proud of.

441
00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:47,000
That's that's also at that same,
that same URL supersite, that 

442
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:49,700
world, that's great. 
I'm glad I will definitely make 

443
00:26:49,700 --> 00:26:52,000
sure we include all the links 
and images or whatever. 

444
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:54,500
You're willing to share with the
audience and you perfectly 

445
00:26:54,500 --> 00:26:57,000
segwayed into what I was going 
to ask you, which was, you've 

446
00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:00,600
got all these Innovations out in
the world and now you've been 

447
00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:03,500
working on it. 
It's like you're publishing yet 

448
00:27:03,500 --> 00:27:07,600
another book but tell us about 
all the all the literature that 

449
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:09,300
you put out into the world as 
well. 

450
00:27:10,900 --> 00:27:13,800
Well, I've only done two books. 
The first one was called 

451
00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:16,700
Enchanted objects. 
Kind of all about the Internet 

452
00:27:16,700 --> 00:27:19,500
of Things. 
There's an umbrella that knows 

453
00:27:19,500 --> 00:27:22,700
when it's going to rain, if it's
on the cover and kind of the, 

454
00:27:22,700 --> 00:27:26,200
the hilt of the umbrella makes 
this kind of rain pattern. 

455
00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:31,100
Cool, remind you to bring it and
this is really all about kind of

456
00:27:31,100 --> 00:27:37,100
what The human desires that are 
age old desires that are 

457
00:27:37,108 --> 00:27:40,700
revealed in fairy tales and 
myths. 

458
00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:48,700
And how those those desires for 
omniscience or telepathy or 

459
00:27:48,700 --> 00:27:51,000
other kind of wishes can be 
satisfied through. 

460
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:53,900
Internet-connected things. 
That keep us healthier or 

461
00:27:53,900 --> 00:27:56,500
whatever the case may think. 
Wow. 

462
00:27:56,500 --> 00:27:58,900
In the most, the most recent 
book is called super side, and 

463
00:27:58,900 --> 00:28:02,100
it's really about as it as a 
species like what? 

464
00:28:02,300 --> 00:28:05,600
Should we be seeing, you know 
like what is the thing that we 

465
00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:10,400
really are myopic about today? 
That would really be useful to 

466
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:12,300
see. 
And month argument that I make 

467
00:28:12,300 --> 00:28:16,700
here is that we have a hard time
seeing the future, like we have 

468
00:28:16,700 --> 00:28:21,100
a heart like we kind of live in 
the moment and it's hard for 

469
00:28:21,100 --> 00:28:26,800
people to kind of Imagine a more
sustainable landscape or a more 

470
00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:32,600
walkable city or a more or 
environments that That you know,

471
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:38,700
aren't has dominated by cars or 
by chain stores or whatever. 

472
00:28:38,700 --> 00:28:42,600
So one of the things that are 
demented, reality can do is to 

473
00:28:43,100 --> 00:28:46,300
show us kind of a different 
vision of what the world could 

474
00:28:46,300 --> 00:28:48,800
be around us. 
That would Inspire that change 

475
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:52,100
that's great amazing. 
I'm looking forward to picking 

476
00:28:52,100 --> 00:28:55,400
up both of those books actually 
I just feel super inspired but 

477
00:28:55,400 --> 00:29:00,300
what you've shared with us today
and and there is for sure, 

478
00:29:00,300 --> 00:29:03,100
Synergy across what you've put. 
Out there in the world. 

479
00:29:03,100 --> 00:29:05,900
And what project managers are 
product, managers are currently 

480
00:29:05,900 --> 00:29:08,400
working on. 
So I'm sure they'll also feel 

481
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:10,000
inspired by everything that 
you've shared. 

482
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:12,800
So David, I have one more 
question for you, maybe it's a 

483
00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:16,200
challenging one or maybe, you 
know, this right away but of all

484
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:19,500
the Innovation you put out there
which one is your favorite? 

485
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:24,900
Well. 
I mean, the kind of Victory the 

486
00:29:24,900 --> 00:29:28,500
heuristic for favorite is I 
think something that really 

487
00:29:28,500 --> 00:29:33,500
responds to human needs and 
human desires that has like an 

488
00:29:33,500 --> 00:29:36,200
Elegance or Simplicity to it, 
where people see it and they're 

489
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:40,300
like, of course, like what this 
didn't take, this didn't already

490
00:29:40,300 --> 00:29:46,500
exist and that also kind of 
folds in the creative work of 

491
00:29:46,500 --> 00:29:50,500
not only one discipline. 
But you know, kind of people 

492
00:29:50,500 --> 00:29:57,000
that are skilled at Information 
that design and wireless and 

493
00:29:58,900 --> 00:30:03,600
data and design. 
So I guess I don't know for me. 

494
00:30:05,500 --> 00:30:09,400
Yeah, I am fascinated by camera 
systems and computer vision and 

495
00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:12,500
all of the things that the world
can see around you. 

496
00:30:14,300 --> 00:30:17,300
The one that I would, I think 
I'm going to mention is there's 

497
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:19,600
it's a new company, it's called 
Xander. 

498
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:22,400
They just want to seek an award 
at CES. 

499
00:30:22,700 --> 00:30:24,900
And basically, Captions for the 
world. 

500
00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:28,500
So imagine you're talking to 
somebody and they speak a 

501
00:30:28,508 --> 00:30:31,000
different language. 
It translates the language and 

502
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:34,800
then put and then shows you the 
text of what they're saying as 

503
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:36,600
if you're as if you have. 
Wow. 

504
00:30:37,100 --> 00:30:39,300
And those are those are 
superimposed over the other 

505
00:30:39,300 --> 00:30:43,900
person so out like over their 
body and it's especially good 

506
00:30:43,900 --> 00:30:47,700
for people who have a hearing 
deficit and because even hearing

507
00:30:47,700 --> 00:30:50,500
aids like kind of suck in loud 
environments. 

508
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:56,100
And so, it has been-- Informing 
microphone array and and can 

509
00:30:56,100 --> 00:30:59,000
listen to the person, you know, 
in a very narrow way of who 

510
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:03,000
you're talking to and then be 
able to project captions on 

511
00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:05,900
people as you as you glance at 
them and conversation. 

512
00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:11,100
So with their a lot of how old a
lot of Aging people in my life, 

513
00:31:11,100 --> 00:31:15,600
my mom and my mother and 
father-in-law, they're all 

514
00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:18,100
wearing hearing aids, the 
hearing aids, all suck. 

515
00:31:18,100 --> 00:31:21,400
And I don't like, I really want 
to help people because it's 

516
00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:25,000
important for their own for 
their own You know, to avoid 

517
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:28,700
dementia to a engaged in 
conversations. 

518
00:31:28,700 --> 00:31:32,400
Like you want them to be more 
social and more social with, you

519
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:35,200
know, in spaces that are not 
just one-on-one kind of 

520
00:31:35,500 --> 00:31:37,800
interactions. 
And so the ability to have a 

521
00:31:37,808 --> 00:31:41,300
technology that helps them 
continue to engage is something 

522
00:31:41,300 --> 00:31:45,100
that I'm really proud of and 
want to see a part of the world.

523
00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:49,700
Gosh, that's just incredible and
II might where my mind went was 

524
00:31:49,700 --> 00:31:53,200
just beyond kind of the using it
for you know my mother. 

525
00:31:53,300 --> 00:31:57,100
Her is, you could use that to 
break down communication 

526
00:31:57,100 --> 00:32:00,400
barriers that exist in the 
workplace right now. 

527
00:32:00,700 --> 00:32:06,100
Especially as we see, a lot more
people losing that in person 

528
00:32:06,100 --> 00:32:09,800
touch because many companies 
have gone to remote work. 

529
00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:12,900
I see that that could 
potentially help in the 

530
00:32:12,900 --> 00:32:16,900
communication channels that are 
often lost because we are 

531
00:32:16,900 --> 00:32:20,400
communicating just by text, or 
by email more frequently than we

532
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:24,400
are via in person or virtual. 
So, There could be something 

533
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:27,800
there as well and so I could 
easily see that breaking down 

534
00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:30,500
some of those barriers to so 
that's great. 

535
00:32:30,500 --> 00:32:32,300
Thank you so much David for 
sharing that. 

536
00:32:32,300 --> 00:32:36,200
So I mean I think we've taken up
enough of your time today but I 

537
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:38,900
think we've learned so much 
about you and what you put on 

538
00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:41,500
the amazing things that you put 
out into the world. 

539
00:32:41,500 --> 00:32:45,800
So David if folks want to follow
you continue the conversation 

540
00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:48,100
with you. 
Where can they find you online? 

541
00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:49,400
Yeah. 
Super site. 

542
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:52,800
Dot world has a lot of design 
principles for augmented 

543
00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:53,700
reality. 
T. 

544
00:32:54,300 --> 00:32:57,000
I definitely encourage. 
You can download the first first

545
00:32:57,000 --> 00:32:58,400
and last chapter of the book for
free. 

546
00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:04,300
I'm at David Rose on Twitter, on
LinkedIn. 

547
00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:11,000
People can reach out to me. 
My MIT email is DLR at mit.edu, 

548
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:12,700
so they can also reach me that 
way. 

549
00:33:13,700 --> 00:33:14,400
Thank you. 
Thank you. 

550
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:17,700
And I'll make sure all the 
appropriate links are below this

551
00:33:17,900 --> 00:33:21,700
posting, as well, just a quick 
plug to support the everyday 

552
00:33:21,700 --> 00:33:26,100
p.m. podcast by giving The five 
star review on Apple podcasts or

553
00:33:26,300 --> 00:33:29,100
whatever podcasting platform you
are listening in. 

554
00:33:29,100 --> 00:33:31,900
On the podcast is available on 
Spotify. 

555
00:33:31,900 --> 00:33:34,700
Google Play overcast. 
You name it just search for the 

556
00:33:34,700 --> 00:33:37,000
everyday p.m. 
You can also find the video 

557
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:40,300
version of this conversation 
with David on my YouTube 

558
00:33:40,300 --> 00:33:43,300
channel, youtube.com forward, 
slash and campea. 

559
00:33:43,500 --> 00:33:45,000
While you're there, leave us a 
comment. 

560
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:47,700
Let us know what you thought. 
Ask David all the amazing 

561
00:33:47,700 --> 00:33:52,700
questions, maybe Inspire us or 
inspired a woodwind more of your

562
00:33:52,700 --> 00:33:54,600
incredible. 
Thinking and ideas and 

563
00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:58,000
Innovation and then leave any 
questions that you may have for.

564
00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:02,000
Either of us on there, that will
do it for you David and I should

565
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:06,400
have used more Snapchat filters 
and I realized video like I've 

566
00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:09,500
got a bunch of snap filters that
like work and zoom you know 

567
00:34:09,500 --> 00:34:13,000
David I'm surprised you haven't 
invented something that we could

568
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:17,199
have used today in the zoom 
conversation but I'm sure it's 

569
00:34:17,199 --> 00:34:19,300
coming from you. 
I would expect nothing less. 

570
00:34:19,300 --> 00:34:22,300
So David, thank you so much for 
joining us on this installment 

571
00:34:22,300 --> 00:34:24,500
of the everyday. 
I'm podcast. 

572
00:34:24,500 --> 00:34:26,900
And until next time, take care.