1 00:00:10,040 --> 00:00:13,160 Welcome to the Everyday PM podcast, the podcast where we 2 00:00:13,160 --> 00:00:16,160 discuss project management principles for your everyday 3 00:00:16,160 --> 00:00:18,720 life. My name is Anne Campia, I'm the 4 00:00:18,720 --> 00:00:23,240 founder and host of The Everyday PM and I'm so excited to welcome 5 00:00:23,240 --> 00:00:25,920 a very special guest, someone that for those who have been 6 00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:28,840 listening for some time may be familiar with. 7 00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:34,200 We have Rich Maltzmann, who is an author, he's a professor, he 8 00:00:34,200 --> 00:00:38,720 is kind of an all around Jack of trades within the PM space. 9 00:00:39,520 --> 00:00:43,080 I know we're doing this as audio only, but I also have the new 10 00:00:43,080 --> 00:00:46,640 book that we will be talking about that Rich has recently 11 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:49,520 authored, but he has also been on the podcast before, if you 12 00:00:49,520 --> 00:00:53,560 guys can recall, talking about great meetings and and how to 13 00:00:53,560 --> 00:00:56,160 build great teams. And that was such a fun episode 14 00:00:56,160 --> 00:00:58,840 and a highly listened to episode Rich, if you didn't know. 15 00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:02,600 So we're super excited to have you back on the podcast. 16 00:01:02,600 --> 00:01:06,240 For those who have not met you through that or through your all 17 00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:09,840 of your professional journey, can you please take a moment to 18 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:11,560 introduce yourself to our audience? 19 00:01:12,040 --> 00:01:13,800 Sure. Thanks, and great to be back. 20 00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:17,320 So even though I've been in the workforce for 55 years, I'm 21 00:01:17,320 --> 00:01:19,240 going to make this as brief as I can. 22 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:24,240 I consider myself a pracademic. Yeah, I'm a master lecturer at 23 00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:27,760 Boston University. I deliver a suite of project 24 00:01:27,760 --> 00:01:30,920 management courses. I develop new courses, even 25 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:34,040 whole new degrees at the master's level at BU. 26 00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:38,680 So it sure sounds like I'm an academic, but my background is 27 00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:42,440 actually as a practical practicing and practical 28 00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:44,480 electrical and industrial engineer. 29 00:01:45,360 --> 00:01:51,560 And in the latter 2/3 of my 45 or so year old career, I've also 30 00:01:51,560 --> 00:01:54,320 been a project management director and APMO leader. 31 00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:58,440 So I would assert that the academic piece, which is 32 00:01:58,440 --> 00:02:03,720 definitely there, is built on a solid real practicing platform 33 00:02:03,720 --> 00:02:07,720 of real projects and leading real project managers, mainly in 34 00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:11,039 the telecom business. But by getting into academics, 35 00:02:11,039 --> 00:02:13,960 I've worked with people in finance and insurance and travel 36 00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:18,080 and pharmaceutical and medical devices as well. 37 00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:22,000 I'm very proud of the teaching, teaching and mentoring and 38 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:24,640 coaching I do with master's degree students. 39 00:02:24,640 --> 00:02:26,800 It's great to hear them say I got a job. 40 00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:31,200 And I take pride in helping students turn their weaknesses 41 00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:35,360 into strengths while maintaining their existing strengths. 42 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:40,520 So that's my brief introduction. If, if, if I were to pinpoint 43 00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:45,200 somebody who's active on LinkedIn that I actively follow 44 00:02:45,640 --> 00:02:49,240 is you because there is nothing short of what you just said 45 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:53,320 around the fact that you promote your students, you support them. 46 00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:57,160 I've seen multiple posts from you about students who are 47 00:02:57,160 --> 00:02:59,920 either just beginning their journey or just highlighting 48 00:02:59,920 --> 00:03:01,280 things that they've accomplished. 49 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:04,680 And so I think for what it's worth, you're doing so much good 50 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:07,480 in the PM community and we're grateful for that. 51 00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:12,720 And Speaking of good, you also let's let's not forget you also 52 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:15,760 have authored a few books and you're back to talk about your 53 00:03:15,760 --> 00:03:19,600 newest book with me. So your book AI Powered 54 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:23,440 Leadership, which to me extremely timely. 55 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:26,080 I'm super excited that you're the one of the authors behind 56 00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:29,560 this book because I've read it cover to cover. 57 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:32,640 I've actually explored whether or not, you know, this would be 58 00:03:32,640 --> 00:03:35,680 a practical application for students, but for our audience, 59 00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:39,720 let's dive into what it's about. So your book AI Powered 60 00:03:39,720 --> 00:03:43,640 Leadership explores the synergy between AI and human expertise. 61 00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:47,840 For project managers who might be intimidated by AI or unsure 62 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:50,840 how to incorporate it, what are some practical, everyday ways 63 00:03:50,840 --> 00:03:53,960 they can start balancing AI tools, especially with their 64 00:03:53,960 --> 00:03:55,880 human skills, in their current projects? 65 00:03:56,200 --> 00:03:59,800 Yes, and the keyword there is every day because it's kind of 66 00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:02,600 the name of the podcast. So I have a two-part answer. 67 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:05,720 This is the academic part. I guess I have a two-part 68 00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:07,680 answer, and Part 1 has two parts. 69 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:13,280 So part 1A is to know what the power skills are. 70 00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:16,600 This word power is actually quite important to the book 71 00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:21,160 because we use a laser analogy, and lasers basically is light 72 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:24,040 amplification by the stimulation of emitted radiation. 73 00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:25,200 We don't have to do the whole acronym. 74 00:04:26,960 --> 00:04:33,120 So basically it's about focus and cohesion and and power. 75 00:04:33,400 --> 00:04:38,680 So power skills that PMI names are communication, problem 76 00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:41,320 solving, collaborative leadership, strategic thinking, 77 00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:44,920 relationship building, adaptability, innovative 78 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:50,400 mindset, accountability, empathy, discipline for purpose 79 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:52,520 orientation and future focused orientation. 80 00:04:52,520 --> 00:04:53,800 Now I'm not going to go through all of these. 81 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:59,360 The book does cover these and their relationships with AI, but 82 00:04:59,800 --> 00:05:03,440 part 1B is why are they called power skills? 83 00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:08,560 And as a dual engineering degree person and a practicing 84 00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:13,680 engineer, I know that you know that you sometimes if you're an 85 00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:17,840 engineer or a technician or a scientist, call these people 86 00:05:17,840 --> 00:05:21,720 skills or squishy skills or soft skills. 87 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:25,280 But really, and this is PM is point there where a project 88 00:05:25,280 --> 00:05:29,200 manager has the opportunity to dig in and become a true project 89 00:05:29,200 --> 00:05:31,280 leader as opposed to a project manager. 90 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:36,400 In fact, the word manager kind of chafes me a little. 91 00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:39,400 Bit yeah, me too, you know. How are you doing today? 92 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:42,840 I manage. So manage is almost a derogatory 93 00:05:42,840 --> 00:05:45,400 term. Instead, we lead projects and 94 00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:49,360 often we're not, we're we're not even the highest ranking person 95 00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:51,560 in the team. We have vice presidents and 96 00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:55,480 directors temporarily reporting to us. 97 00:05:55,840 --> 00:05:58,600 So I think you can shine as a leader. 98 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:03,720 There's another reference to light if you look at these not 99 00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:07,000 as squishy soft skills that are almost kind of parenthetical, 100 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:11,120 but really belong as a major arrow in your quiver. 101 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:17,080 So that's Part 1, basically the understanding of what power 102 00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:20,400 skills are and the fact that you have these to use. 103 00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:25,000 Part 2, and this is where the book digs in, is that you 104 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:29,120 realize you can exercise these power skills without any AI 105 00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:31,840 assistance, just as project managers have done for decades. 106 00:06:31,840 --> 00:06:37,720 I don't think the builders of the pyramids used ChatGPT -5. 107 00:06:40,040 --> 00:06:44,360 So you can, you can do this without AI, but now we can take 108 00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:48,080 advantage of AI as kind of an agent to check ideas for us to 109 00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:51,880 solve problems and even help you ironically with the power 110 00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:55,040 skills, even empathy. And I'll give you an example if 111 00:06:55,040 --> 00:06:57,600 you'd like and. Sure, Yeah, let's dive in. 112 00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:01,240 So this one isn't in the book. This is a bonus for your 113 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:04,680 listeners, but it's the kind of the flavor of what's in the 114 00:07:04,680 --> 00:07:07,320 book. One of your team members, Pat, 115 00:07:07,480 --> 00:07:10,840 has become detached, hasn't contributed much. 116 00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:14,160 They aren't turning over their deliverables on time. 117 00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:18,560 Other team members are noticing this along with you. 118 00:07:18,560 --> 00:07:21,360 They're frustrated. You, as the leader, are angry 119 00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:24,160 and confused. You start a strongly worded, 120 00:07:24,160 --> 00:07:30,000 rather harsh e-mail to Pat, but instead of hitting send, just as 121 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:32,400 you're about to angrily hit send, right? 122 00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:36,800 Probably breaking the enter key. While you're in that state of 123 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:41,040 mind, you take a breath and you ask AI, after providing some 124 00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:44,720 proper context to it, to give its opinion about the e-mail you 125 00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:48,680 were about to send, and even ask it to provide other ways you 126 00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:50,960 might communicate this that might be more effective and 127 00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:54,800 productive. So I tested this myself and 128 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:56,480 generally it has a better result. 129 00:07:57,240 --> 00:08:00,840 As our book says. However, it requires significant 130 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:05,280 human 1st and human in the loop back and forth with the AI 131 00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:08,400 system. You probably will be surprised 132 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:12,280 at how insightful and even empathetic an AI agent can be, 133 00:08:12,640 --> 00:08:16,080 especially if you have and I say this word intentionally in a 134 00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:21,160 staccato way if you have some conversation with the system. 135 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:24,160 Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I know. 136 00:08:24,200 --> 00:08:30,040 I would not have guessed that you can use AI in an empathetic 137 00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:35,240 way, or at least in a coaching way, conversational way to get 138 00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:39,080 you to that level of empathy. I did not expect that we would 139 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:42,000 be putting those two together in this conversation. 140 00:08:42,320 --> 00:08:47,720 And that example was a perfect explanation for those that were 141 00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:51,120 also kind of confused what you were leading into to better 142 00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:54,960 understand how empathy and AI can be, you know, in partnership 143 00:08:54,960 --> 00:08:56,120 with each other. That was great. 144 00:08:56,120 --> 00:08:58,480 Thank you, Rich. There are actually some studies 145 00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:02,080 hand and this this is kind of another bonus and I don't have 146 00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:06,000 the reference at hand, but that that showed that they surveyed 147 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:12,800 Dr. patient interactions and in some cases they were AI assisted 148 00:09:12,800 --> 00:09:16,200 or even AI generated. And they had a control group 149 00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:22,640 that was just doctor patient. And even the doctors admitted 150 00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:27,400 that the bedside manner, so to speak, of AI was superior to the 151 00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:30,920 doctors, partially because they have hundreds of patients to. 152 00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:34,920 Look at. And the AI system, if it's given 153 00:09:34,920 --> 00:09:39,280 the proper context is working. You know, again, laser focused 154 00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:43,360 on that one patient. So bedside manner was considered 155 00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:46,960 better even by the doctors after reviewing their own responses. 156 00:09:46,960 --> 00:09:50,080 That's fascinating. Pure than purely human 157 00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:52,040 interactions. I'm not saying AI is more 158 00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:54,640 empathetic than humans. I'm saying that a conversation 159 00:09:54,640 --> 00:09:58,360 with a can yield a more empathetic message to, in your 160 00:09:58,360 --> 00:10:01,360 case, a project team. That's really fascinating. 161 00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:05,440 So let's consider this now because I know for project 162 00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:09,480 managers, we also have to think about the ethical piece of AI. 163 00:10:10,280 --> 00:10:13,040 And I know that you've done some work in green project 164 00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:15,400 management. So as a champion of 165 00:10:15,400 --> 00:10:18,840 sustainability and project management through your work on 166 00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:22,400 green project management, how do you see ethical considerations 167 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:25,400 playing out when project managers try to incorporate AI 168 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:27,880 into their everyday life or their everyday workflows? 169 00:10:28,280 --> 00:10:31,480 I mean, are there any guardrails that you can that we should be 170 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:36,480 considering that we established to ensure things like AI usage 171 00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:41,080 aligns with sustainability and the ethical practices around us 172 00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:43,680 probably, you know, within the organization or even just as an 173 00:10:43,680 --> 00:10:46,800 individual as well? Yes, I saw a couple of things 174 00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:49,800 come to mind immediately. One first of all, the book Green 175 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:53,320 Project Management was written in like 2010 with Dave Shirley. 176 00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:56,360 All my books are co-authored. I I have no books, zero books 177 00:10:56,360 --> 00:10:59,160 that I've authored on my own. I need a project manager to make 178 00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:01,200 sure the book stops getting written. 179 00:11:02,760 --> 00:11:06,560 So yes, Green Project Management as a book came out before the 180 00:11:06,760 --> 00:11:10,000 Green Project Management certification and so forth that 181 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:14,440 PMI is now properly pushing and this is a really good effort 182 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:19,400 that PMI has put in place. Secondly, as far as guardrails, 183 00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:24,120 there are some bigger questions here than just project 184 00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:27,080 management. I say that, you know, with all 185 00:11:27,080 --> 00:11:31,000 respect to project management is everything to us, but there's 186 00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:35,760 much more to the world. And there's a, a book called 187 00:11:35,760 --> 00:11:39,760 Nexus by I think his name is Yuval Harari. 188 00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:42,880 It's outstanding. You should, you should consider 189 00:11:43,560 --> 00:11:48,840 taking a look at that book. It's it's a thick book, but it 190 00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:51,560 you mentioned guardrails. So the bigger question about the 191 00:11:51,560 --> 00:11:56,800 guardrails around AI and preventing a not really a 192 00:11:56,800 --> 00:11:59,600 takeover, but but some really disastrous things that could 193 00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:03,680 happen. Doctor Harare puts a lot of work 194 00:12:03,680 --> 00:12:08,440 in into the history and the development of of this tool and 195 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:12,360 what it could mean to us if it's not, if governments don't step 196 00:12:12,360 --> 00:12:14,560 up. That's a tangent, but it's, it's 197 00:12:14,560 --> 00:12:17,480 a really good book, great examples. 198 00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:24,160 So to your direct question, when it comes to AI and green, 199 00:12:24,160 --> 00:12:26,680 there's some very straightforward, almost purely 200 00:12:26,680 --> 00:12:29,720 mathematical things here, like the amount of energy that AI 201 00:12:29,720 --> 00:12:37,240 systems use, you know, to, for AI to draw a picture for you or 202 00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:41,680 to create an infographic. You know, think about the fact 203 00:12:41,680 --> 00:12:45,560 that some studies show that every image you generate is like 204 00:12:45,560 --> 00:12:48,040 running your microwave on high for several minutes and you 205 00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:50,600 don't even get any popcorn. Oh gosh. 206 00:12:51,280 --> 00:12:52,360 No popcorn? No. 207 00:12:53,080 --> 00:12:54,840 Yeah. But you get a drawing. 208 00:12:54,840 --> 00:12:58,200 But it does, you know, as of now, until they come up with 209 00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:02,200 better ways to more efficient ways to process the massive 210 00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:05,480 amounts of information that are used in AI. 211 00:13:05,480 --> 00:13:11,040 It's a it's a carbon heavy thing. 212 00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:13,480 When you. When you ask make those 213 00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:18,280 requests, on the other hand, if the result, if that infographic 214 00:13:18,280 --> 00:13:21,600 is saving time, saving lives. I mean, it's a worthwhile trade 215 00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:24,640 off, right? So that energy spent might be 216 00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:28,640 quite worth it. However, and I think you were 217 00:13:28,640 --> 00:13:36,520 asking a much less mathematical and obvious question, I think 218 00:13:36,520 --> 00:13:38,040 you were asking a deeper question. 219 00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:42,680 How can AI be more ethical? How can AI help us consider the 220 00:13:42,680 --> 00:13:47,800 long term to help us with triple bottom line, longer term 221 00:13:47,880 --> 00:13:49,800 thinking? And the answer to that is 222 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:53,600 actually fairly simple. When you prompt and really 223 00:13:53,880 --> 00:13:57,120 prompts are the first part of the conversation that you'll 224 00:13:57,120 --> 00:14:02,280 have with AI and your prompts. Be sure to include these kinds 225 00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:04,760 of considerations. For example, if you're if you're 226 00:14:04,760 --> 00:14:08,840 working on a building project for an apartment building, say a 227 00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:12,320 four story apartment building, indicate that you're seeking a 228 00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:14,760 minimum of lead silver certification. 229 00:14:14,760 --> 00:14:20,640 Lead being AUS based, environmental, carbon based 230 00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:26,960 measurement of the greenness of your building mentioned that say 231 00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:30,480 that you're looking to have a minimal impact on local 232 00:14:30,480 --> 00:14:34,640 wildlife, that you are thinking about vendors and businesses and 233 00:14:34,640 --> 00:14:40,320 pedestrians nearby in terms of social benefits. 234 00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:42,720 And so that this brings the, you know, you obviously you want 235 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:45,440 this building to be built effectively and efficient 236 00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:48,280 efficiently. You want to make money for the 237 00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:50,800 residents, for the businesses in the building. 238 00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:56,440 So yes, economic, but also ecological and also social 239 00:14:56,440 --> 00:14:59,120 benefits. If you prompt AI to think about 240 00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:02,200 those things, it will. And we're actually working on a 241 00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:06,280 new degree that we have a new degree at BU where we're 242 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:10,320 integrating AI and we're instructing our students that 243 00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:14,760 when they use AI, these are the kinds of prompts you should be, 244 00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:19,680 you should be putting into AI. So guardrails, absolutely 245 00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:25,240 proprietary guardrails. So you know, letting AI either 246 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:31,000 search the web or not letting AI put stuff on in public domain 247 00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:32,440 that you might not want to be there. 248 00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:35,640 Let's say you're working on a vaccine, you don't want that 249 00:15:35,640 --> 00:15:39,200 molecule just out there. So there are definitely are 250 00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:42,480 guardrails that your organization will probably have 251 00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:45,000 and then of course ethical guidelines. 252 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:47,800 That's a little bit bigger question and that's where this 253 00:15:47,800 --> 00:15:50,880 book Nexus is fascinating and and helpful. 254 00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:55,360 Oh, I've got it in my Amazon cart as we speak, so I'm looking 255 00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:58,120 forward to, after reading your book, reading that 256 00:15:58,200 --> 00:16:01,080 recommendation as well. But Rich, I can't help but think 257 00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:04,360 about every time I throw a prompt in there that's not quite 258 00:16:04,360 --> 00:16:09,800 right, that is equating to the the the carbon usage that I 259 00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:11,840 can't get the bag of popcorn out of my head. 260 00:16:11,840 --> 00:16:13,600 Now that was such a good analogy. 261 00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:17,520 Yeah, but again, think, think of the fact that, and I do this 262 00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:20,480 myself, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm creating an image. 263 00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:22,800 Do I really have to have this picture, right? 264 00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:26,600 If it's really goofy or fun, then I I pull back. 265 00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:29,400 But if it's something that actually is going to, you know, 266 00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:33,200 provide benefit to people and in the long run, save energy, you 267 00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:35,880 know that bag of popcorn's worth what's popping. 268 00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:39,240 Yeah, I like that. I like that. 269 00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:43,240 So let's let's talk a little bit about, you know, in the past 270 00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:47,480 you've told me about how you you hyper focus on converting 271 00:16:47,480 --> 00:16:50,920 weaknesses into strengths in particular, you know, like with 272 00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:53,880 the students that you teach and or the the teammates that you 273 00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:57,160 interact with. So could you share a story or an 274 00:16:57,160 --> 00:17:01,680 example of how a project manager might identify their team's 275 00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:05,440 weaknesses and and strategically use AI tools to transfer perform 276 00:17:05,440 --> 00:17:09,160 those perhaps into competitive advantages in their day-to-day 277 00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:10,720 work? Yeah, sure. 278 00:17:13,079 --> 00:17:16,880 OK, here's an example and and the the the problem here are the 279 00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:19,400 weaknesses. Silo fication, if you can even 280 00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:21,960 make that a word, you know, having too many silos. 281 00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:25,200 Makes sense to me. People staying inside their 282 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:30,440 engineering or marketing or research silo and but by the 283 00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:32,680 way, that happens even in universities, I can tell you. 284 00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:37,600 So here's this example. Well, let's let's name the 285 00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:41,440 project manager Kim. Kim is the project manager for a 286 00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:45,760 new medical device introduction, a brand new medical device. 287 00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:49,480 They noticed there's a weakness in the team's cohesion, 288 00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:52,560 especially between the marketing and the technical parts of the 289 00:17:52,560 --> 00:17:55,280 team. I'm, I'm sure you may have run 290 00:17:55,280 --> 00:17:59,080 into that before. The temptation, The temptation 291 00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:02,200 for Kim, and, and it's a good one, is to meet with each team, 292 00:18:02,560 --> 00:18:04,560 coach them. Hey, watch your jargon. 293 00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:07,920 Don't belittle the other team. Don't have the marketing people 294 00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:10,080 say, hey, just get this. Get that little software 295 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:11,640 written, right? Little software. 296 00:18:11,640 --> 00:18:13,920 This is my life's work, right? And don't say, oh, you just have 297 00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:16,760 to put out a little ADD and now you're demeaning the marketing 298 00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:20,560 team, right? So you could meet with them and 299 00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:24,840 give them that coaching. You could spend time reiterating 300 00:18:24,840 --> 00:18:27,240 the projects and value. Begin with the end in mind. 301 00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:29,240 Show them what this medical device is going to do. 302 00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:34,120 That's all good. So Kim Kim's doing a great job, 303 00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:39,120 but another way to accomplish this perhaps more effectively is 304 00:18:39,120 --> 00:18:42,920 to get some AI assistance. And I tried this myself. 305 00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:47,840 So I actually put this scenario into GPT 5 and I got a very long 306 00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:52,440 outline, which I'm not going to read to you because no one wants 307 00:18:52,440 --> 00:18:55,720 to read an outline and you don't want to hear me read an outline. 308 00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:59,680 But I pumped the outline back into AI and asked it to 309 00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:02,800 summarize it in a brief, concise, powerful paragraph. 310 00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:05,320 And again, this is that conversation, right? 311 00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:08,040 You what you get out might be beautiful, but not the way you 312 00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:09,920 want it. So you just say, hey, rephrase 313 00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:15,200 this package it differently. And here's how AI responded once 314 00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:18,320 it did that compression. And I can give you if you'd like 315 00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:21,840 and the the full, yeah. That'd be great. 316 00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:24,000 To put in show notes. Yes, we do. 317 00:19:24,120 --> 00:19:29,040 Remember the story? Kim is working with their team 318 00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:32,360 to try to prevent this kind of silo fication, especially 319 00:19:32,360 --> 00:19:34,800 between the marketing and technical people. 320 00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:38,240 So here's what here's what AI put in kind of a conversation. 321 00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:41,120 I didn't even ask it to do this. It put in a conversational mode. 322 00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:44,400 OK. Kim The instinct to remind each 323 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:47,320 side to cut the jargon and respect each other is good, but 324 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:50,760 the real breakthrough comes from shared experiences. 325 00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:55,320 Kim You could run a short work group, Oh sorry workshop, where 326 00:19:55,560 --> 00:19:59,720 both groups define the project's value together and have a fun 327 00:19:59,920 --> 00:20:02,240 jargon busting session to build empathy. 328 00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:06,240 You could set up regular joint check insurance so updates 329 00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:09,880 aren't siloed, and even have a buddy system pair people across 330 00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:12,520 functions to shadow each other's work. 331 00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:17,120 Finally, anchoring everyone around the customer journey, in 332 00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:19,560 other words, what the customer's going to get out of this medical 333 00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:23,080 device, helps both teams see that they're part of the story, 334 00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:27,640 not 2 competing worlds. The key is moving from coaching 335 00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:31,600 separately to building habits and rituals that naturally bring 336 00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:35,440 these two teams together. So wow, that sounds like a 337 00:20:35,440 --> 00:20:39,200 mentor, like a seasoned project manager giving you good advice, 338 00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:42,360 right? So now it's back to me again. 339 00:20:42,360 --> 00:20:47,520 That was AI speaking. I want to stress as it is the 340 00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:49,840 theme of our book that you don't just run with this 341 00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:52,280 recommendation from AI. It's very good. 342 00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:56,760 But don't just run with this. You have to think about your own 343 00:20:57,080 --> 00:21:00,680 specific organization, the actual humans involved, right? 344 00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:03,840 Because AI does not know Harry the designer and AI does not 345 00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:07,920 know Mary the, the project, the project marketing person. 346 00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:12,520 So put it in that context, think about and relate to how this 347 00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:16,760 would play in your specific organization for this specific 348 00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:20,880 project. You, you the project leader, you 349 00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:23,920 know the people, you know the culture of the organization. 350 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:26,640 AI does not know that. Yeah, you can give it context, 351 00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:30,600 but they don't really know it doesn't really know that that 352 00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:33,720 well. Pick and choose the best pieces. 353 00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:38,440 Eliminate the goofy or hallucination stuff, because AI 354 00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:41,720 does that. Eliminate the stuff that won't 355 00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:45,840 work. Continue the conversation with 356 00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:50,520 AI by pumping back your revised ideas and asking for its opinion 357 00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:56,480 on this new, you know, human revised version, always adding 358 00:21:56,480 --> 00:22:02,520 more context about your about your specific situation right 359 00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:05,280 now. And that's the back and forth 360 00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:08,960 that we talk about. That's the laser and lasers work 361 00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:11,920 by bouncing light back and forth to become more cohesive, 362 00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:15,440 powerful and focused. And that is what will happen. 363 00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:18,880 This is the theme of the book. If you have laser like 364 00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:24,240 conversations with AI. And it's, it's, I love the fact 365 00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:28,040 that you continue to promote weaving yourself in between the 366 00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:31,920 dialogue or that conversation to make sure that it's applicable 367 00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:34,200 for you and your organization. That's human. 368 00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:36,800 First human in the loop. Yeah, absolutely. 369 00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:39,840 But you know, I will say what is it, Kim was our fictitious 370 00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:44,720 character or there were some things that the the GPT 5 said 371 00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:47,920 that were very interesting that I probably myself would not have 372 00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:49,840 considered as as a project manager. 373 00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:53,720 So that alone is valued to you as APM. 374 00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:58,320 So, so rich, we started this conversation and when you 375 00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:01,320 introduced yourself, you, you described yourself as a 376 00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:04,800 pracademic, which I may or may not steal from you. 377 00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:09,880 Let's see, I'm joking. But as someone who describes 378 00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:13,080 himself as a pracademic, how do you recommend project managers 379 00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:16,000 bridge the gap between theoretical AI capabilities? 380 00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:18,200 Because I still feel like we somewhat live in that world 381 00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:22,080 right now through discovery and practical on the ground 382 00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:25,400 implementation. And what simple steps can they 383 00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:29,400 take to experiment with AI tools without disrupting their current 384 00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:31,480 workflows? Right. 385 00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:34,160 So I, I can't help it. I have to start with read our 386 00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:36,320 book and that is. You should. 387 00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:40,000 That that's not that's that's not the purpose of having this 388 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:41,680 conversation is to try to help people. 389 00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:47,160 So here are some kind of bullet point, immediately actionable 390 00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:50,520 things. First of all, be open minded. 391 00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:55,360 Don't reject AI out of hand and by the same token, don't use it 392 00:23:55,360 --> 00:23:57,120 as a crutch. And this is one of the things 393 00:23:57,120 --> 00:24:00,760 that's a challenge for, for teachers at any grade level 394 00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:04,640 when, when students start to use AI as a crutch. 395 00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:07,680 If you, you just automatically go to AI and say, write a, write 396 00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:10,480 an essay about General Lafayette, you know it will do 397 00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:13,160 it. But don't do either. 398 00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:16,000 Don't, don't reject it out of hand and don't let it take over 399 00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:21,480 your work because you won't be adding critical thinking to the 400 00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:24,000 to the mix. So one be open minded. 401 00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:29,040 No rejection, no automatic acceptance #2 and I have this in 402 00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:31,800 all caps in my notes so I won't shout it. 403 00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:35,480 But imagine me shouting this. You have power skills. 404 00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:40,120 Start with them, right? So understand what PMI is 405 00:24:40,120 --> 00:24:43,680 pushing for project leadership in those list of power skills. 406 00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:46,280 Look at how you you might be able to improve them. 407 00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:50,080 First step is self-awareness. Realize you may not be perfect 408 00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:53,560 at all of those things. OK, so start with your own 409 00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:57,160 skills and power skills. And remember as I said before, 410 00:24:57,360 --> 00:25:01,000 human first, human in the loop. Next one. 411 00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:04,400 And I have 406 of these, but I'll only do the first five. 412 00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:09,560 Next one, build your AI conversancy, if that's a word. 413 00:25:10,120 --> 00:25:16,000 Understand what AI is about. PMI has a really good series, 414 00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:20,360 four or five video training programs. 415 00:25:20,360 --> 00:25:23,760 In fact, I was there for the filming of the one that took 416 00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:26,000 place. They, they filmed in Toronto and 417 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:29,440 Boston and Chicago I believe, and I was there for the filming 418 00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:32,600 and it was they this is very professionally done. 419 00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:37,680 It was filmed in our what we call our Jenga building, where 420 00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:38,360 we. Oh yes. 421 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:43,880 Beautiful building and it was about construction in AI. 422 00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:46,800 Awesome, right? And even if you're not in 423 00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:49,720 construction, just an outstanding way to understand 424 00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:53,840 how AI can contribute. So take advantage of PM is own. 425 00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:59,560 Of course PMI has its own chat system as well. 426 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:02,920 Infinity. But get familiar with the terms. 427 00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:06,360 You should at least know what prompting is all about and best 428 00:26:06,360 --> 00:26:10,640 practices for prompting. And the last one, this is number 429 00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:12,560 four O 6. So I'll jump right down to that 430 00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:17,560 one conversation, conversation, conversation like we're having. 431 00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:21,360 Don't use AI like Google or a search engine. 432 00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:25,400 You, you talk with AI and provide context. 433 00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:28,480 This is why it's called ChatGPT, right? 434 00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:32,040 It's a conversation. Consider what it gives you as 435 00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:35,800 only a suggestion. Think of any actions that it 436 00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:40,960 gives you as proposed actions. Continue the conversation by 437 00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:43,960 asking follow up questions like how could we best implement 438 00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:49,040 this, right? Think of it as a, as a mentor or 439 00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:52,840 an agent or a peer that you're just having a conversation with 440 00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:57,520 to kind of round things out as if you approach it that way as 441 00:26:57,520 --> 00:27:01,520 opposed to Google, you know, give me, you know, give me this 442 00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:03,800 answer. You'll be much better off. 443 00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:07,280 This is great. I'm sure at some point you'll 444 00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:11,000 post the 400 other recommendations somewhere on 445 00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:14,000 your website or maybe LinkedIn. I'm looking forward to seeing 446 00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:18,040 those 22. That was a fictitious number 447 00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:20,320 there. The book, the book, the book you 448 00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:25,080 know in In reading the book, you come across all 406. 449 00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:29,240 Conservancy is a word, I'll just confirm that for you. 450 00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:33,440 And while I know Rich, you're very humble in saying that you 451 00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:36,240 came on here to help the community, which I agree with 452 00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:39,960 you always do. I do implore the audience that's 453 00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:43,720 listening to check out and read the AI Powered leadership book 454 00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:48,680 because you are a pracademic. I love the way you write with 455 00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:52,120 your colleagues because you write for it to be practically 456 00:27:52,120 --> 00:27:54,640 used by people. And I think that's what I 457 00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:57,320 appreciate the most about all of the books you put forward for 458 00:27:57,320 --> 00:28:00,760 the PM community is that it's something that a new PM, 459 00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:03,960 somebody who's just interested in PM you don't. 460 00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:07,200 They don't even necessarily have to be APM to read any of the 461 00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:09,800 books that you've published. But I think in AI Powered 462 00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:12,760 leadership, you, you guys do such a great job of bringing 463 00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:17,320 together the PMI kind of power skills with how that that 464 00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:20,280 interweaves with, with AI tools and, and all of that. 465 00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:23,720 So. We, we actually left project 466 00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:28,760 management out of the title semi intentionally because we thought 467 00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:30,840 that this would have a broader reach. 468 00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:35,800 And the, the feedback we've been getting is that yes, no, it's 469 00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:39,040 it, It mentions PMI, it mentions the power skills, it mentions 470 00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:42,880 project management quite a bit. But we intentionally did not put 471 00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:48,000 it in the title because we felt more more than project managers, 472 00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:51,000 project team members and executives could get some 473 00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:53,160 benefit from it. And I can attest to that, 474 00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:56,000 absolutely. So, rich, if folks want to 475 00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:58,800 continue the conversation with you, they want to learn more 476 00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:00,720 about what you've published or what you do. 477 00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:04,600 Where can folks continue that conversation or find you online? 478 00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:09,240 OK, so LinkedIn, I'm very, as you know, I'm very active there. 479 00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:11,000 You can find me. I think I'm the only Rich 480 00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:13,800 Mulsman there. I think I'm under exclaim. 481 00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:17,680 I think that's the profile name. Long story that I'm not going to 482 00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:24,000 get into now, but you can also go to about me, about dot me 483 00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:27,360 slash rich Mulsman. So HTTPS and all the other stuff 484 00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:31,520 slash about dot me slash Rich Mulsman. 485 00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:38,560 Also I blog.regularly@pmisproject-management.com 486 00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:40,760 on people planet, profits and projects. 487 00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:46,480 Been doing that for many years. Probably the best way to really 488 00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:49,520 get in touch with me is to take a course at BU. 489 00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:54,960 You could do that online. We have a large online program. 490 00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:58,360 In fact, I have already 40 something students signed up for 491 00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:02,920 our general project management course, which runs six weeks. 492 00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:04,880 I don't mean this to be an advertisement, but if you ask 493 00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:07,400 how you can get in touch with me, this is this is a very good 494 00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:09,320 way. More often than not, that's 495 00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:11,760 where I find you. It's within the classroom. 496 00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:15,920 So yes, cultivating the next, the future of project, project 497 00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:18,680 managers out there. And, and I have had the honor 498 00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:22,040 of, of sitting in on one of your classes and it's, it's a great 499 00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:23,960 experience. So I highly recommend that as 500 00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:25,320 well. And now it's my turn to make you 501 00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:26,880 blush. You were awesome. 502 00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:29,360 Thank you, Rich, I appreciate that. 503 00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:31,840 So folks, you know, pick up the book. 504 00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:34,720 Again, this wasn't supposed to be about the book, but I also 505 00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:37,360 want it to be about the book because I love it so much and I 506 00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:40,520 think the community will too. So Rich, thank you for giving up 507 00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:43,040 your time today, having this conversation with me. 508 00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:46,880 It's always a pleasure to interact with you, stalk you on 509 00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:48,760 LinkedIn. Sorry to use that strong word, 510 00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:51,360 but you are very passionate on LinkedIn, so I encourage folks 511 00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:54,280 to follow you there too. If you would like to follow me, 512 00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:55,800 you can also find me on LinkedIn. 513 00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:59,120 I'm not as passionate or active as Rich, but you can also 514 00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:00,840 continue the conversation with me there. 515 00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:04,160 You can also subscribe to the Everyday PM Podcast. 516 00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:06,280 Leave us a comment about what you thought about today's 517 00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:09,720 episode. And until next time for Rich and 518 00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:11,680 myself. Take care. 519 00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:13,760 Thank you. Take care everyone.