Welcome to the Everyday PM Podcast, the podcast where we
discuss project management principles for your everyday
life. My name is Anne Campia, I'm the
founder and host of The Everyday PM as well as a project
management enthusiast. I am so excited to welcome our
very special guest who is Rahul Chenna.
He is the program management professional.
He's joining us today and we've got a lot to talk about in that
space. So Rahul, for those who have not
met you yet, please take a brief moment to introduce yourself to
our audience. Yeah, sure.
Of course. Thank you for the introduction.
And so hi everyone. My name is Rahul Chenna.
I'm a very curious energetic program management professional.
So I am currently working at Tire Rack as a senior program
manager. So I basically look at the
customer experience for people who purchase tires online and I
have a masters in engineering management and I also have a
bachelor's in computer science and that's pretty much where I
try. I love making sense of chaos and
putting them into standardized processes.
And once I have a standardized process, I basically, what do
you say, scale it up? So that's where I thrive.
And I'm very excited to share whatever information that I have
with you guys. And hopefully if you have any
questions, I'll do my best. Let's let's talk a little bit
about your professional journey. Was there an aha moment when you
realized, you know, I'm doing program management, this is what
I'm meant to be doing. A lot of us tend to fall into us
at least in the project management space, which maybe
what we should clarify the difference between project and
program, right? But a lot of us tend to fall
into it accidentally. So I'm curious in terms of your
professional journey, how did you figure out where you were
meant to be so? That's actually a very
interesting topic you brought up because I never set out to be a
project or a program manager, honestly speaking.
So I did my bachelor's in computer science and one of my
main aims was to become a programmer.
And out of my undergraduate, I had a bit of stage fear.
So my first thing was I'm having stage fear.
So I need to fix that. So I jumped into sales.
So that was my first job out of undergrad.
And since I was in undergrad, I was in sales.
I was doing a lot of without knowing what I was doing.
I was doing a lot of portfolio management, program and project
management. And since then I worked in
construction, I worked as a product manager, I worked as a
consultant, I worked as a
program manager and in various industries like manufacturing,
construction, civil engineering, sales and marketing.
Like none of these places, I, I never knew that I was doing
that. I was doing that, you know, like
the reason I actually got into product management was because
my third company out of my undergrad, I was in a software
engineering company and during one of the onboarding processes,
they were like, hey, you have a lot of knowledge and management
skill. You are perfectly suited for
product management. Just go there, you know, and
that basically opened my Ave. and I didn't even know what
product management meant at. That time you.
Know I I jumped into LinkedIn like I had access to LinkedIn
learning and I think I did like 80 to 90 courses like.
Wow. Exactly is project management,
product management, What are the differences of like what do
people do, How do we do it? What are the techniques like
that is the type of person I am. I have an opportunity.
I'm just going to jump in. So that is how I realized that
I've been doing product program and product management for the
last three to four years of my life without actually knowing I
was doing that. That's incredible.
What? You're talking about is exactly
what my journey was as well. I was basically pushed into it
without I was knowing what I was doing.
And since I've been pushed into it, I basically embraced it.
You know, I started going into it and now I'm the youngest
program management professional holder in the world as of
October 22nd, and I'm very proud of that.
Yeah. So let's let's before we dive
into that because I don't want to make an assumption that our
audience knows the differences between project, program and
product. What to you stood out about
those different areas? Because you know, when people
refer to PM, sometimes they're talking about projects,
sometimes they're talking about products, sometimes they're
talking about program, Let's not forget, maybe they're talking
about portfolio. When you are doing that, you
know, countless hours of going through these courses and really
just absorbing what these roles were, Could you break it down
for our audience in terms of, you know, in a very basic way,
what is the key differences between those?
So think about it this way. Let's go first with product and
projects, OK, So project, program and portfolio, these
three are in the same packet. Product in itself is separate
industry, let's just call it that bit.
So the major difference between these projects and the product
is that product is more customer focused where you have a
specific product you're focusing on it is directly, customers are
directly using it and you're responsible for ensuring that
the product that you are developing has the best usage.
Like what are your metric as it can be sales?
What are that coming to projects?
OK, so projects, programs and portfolio.
So that's basically the hierarchy it follows.
So projects are essentially. So think about it this way.
You a company has a director, right?
Like they want to make more money.
Companies do that. That's what we are here about,
right? So they want to make more money.
And the way of making more money is by initiative like strategic
initiatives. And when you're looking at that
strategic initiatives, you can't just say, hey, make me
$1,000,000 just like that. You need to have a plan to get
to the $1,000,000, right? So that when we're talking about
$1,000,000 of in revenue, that is where the portfolio comes in.
It's probably 100 million different higher level, but just
for the sake of discussion. So that is where the portfolio
level is. So OK, I need to get, I need to
do something in order to get that excess amount of revenue.
Sure. So you can't do a portfolio as
it is. You need to break it down into
like you everyone knows WBS like work breakdown structure.
So you want to break down into easy writable shocks.
So basically portfolios are broken into programs.
So programs are like collection of projects that basically are
towards a single initiative. So portfolio can have like 6 or
7 initiative and each of them basically becomes a program in
itself and under the program that is where you have the
projects. So a program is like 6 or 7
projects that are working together to have a common goal.
And maybe I'm I'm rambling that was.
Great. No, that was perfect.
Yeah, that's the gist of it. Like how do you ensure that
you're meeting the organizational objectives
without over complicating stuff? And you do that in these
hierarchies. You do that with projects, you
do that with programs and then with portfolios.
It was a beautiful breakdown and I appreciate that just because
I, I want to make sure the audience understands when now
that we can talk about your accomplishment, that the reason
why you and I had started chatting in the 1st place is
because in October of 2025, you hit a great milestone in your
career. And so when we talk about
program management, I wanted to make sure the audience was clear
on what that actually meant. So let's get into the milestone,
Rahul, I mean, you, you shared it, you, you alluded to it, but
tell us again, you know, October, that feeling of
accomplishment and getting the certification, but walk us
through that entire journey for you.
Oh my. God, I, I would just say that
like my family and my girlfriend were like shocked because so I
mean news first, like I am the youngest program management
holders, certification holder in the world.
I've spoken to. There is no official way of
saying this. I've spoken to a bunch of
people. I even spoke to Brian.
Brian who actually did some research on program management
holders and so far there is no one younger than me.
So if anyone is to break that record, hey, please feel free.
I, I, I would appreciate you guys too.
So I am the youngest recorded program management holder and
I'm very pretty proud of that. Congratulations.
Yeah, lot of yeah. It was a lot of work, but it was
worth it. So, so tell us about what point
did you decide I'm going to invest myself in getting the
certification? Are you also PMP certified by
the way? Yes, I am.
OK, so I. Actually got my PMP
certification because my university paid for it.
So I'm like, hey, you know what, Might as well get it, you know,
I've been doing it for a long time.
I don't need to pay that money, so hell yeah.
So folks are very familiar with PMP, right?
But for those that are just kind of getting into the industry or
really haven't done enough research to understand what
other certification is exist, you've got project management
professional, you've got program management professional and
you've got portfolio management professional.
And they're just a plethora of others that have sprung up
since, especially since I've started doing project management
about 15 years ago. So as the youngest PGMP holder,
what do you have to say in terms of the journey?
What, what type of effort did it take?
You know, I know you can't obviously disclose what's on the
exam for folks that are interested in taking it, but
walk us through that entire that entire journey for you.
Yeah, so how I got started was that I want to, it's been a
while since I've set a personal goal for myself.
So this was not a professional achievement for me.
This was something that I want to do on a personal level.
And I was like, you know what, I've been doing program
management for a while now, but I have never actually sat down
and learned all of the knowledge that I could consume like I did
with product management, product management.
So that was where my goal was. Like, I want to get all of the
program management information, but it's not widely available
anywhere. And I'm, I'm basically in the
dirt trying to figure it out myself, you know, so that is
where my journey started. I, I want to do it by before my
birthday. So that was a deadline that I
set for myself and it took sleepless nights.
I would say. I think it's been 5 to 6 days of
continuous education. I mean, definitely before that
too, but before the exam it, it was actually a 7 or 8 months
journey for me overall. And like the week before the
exam, I took time off work and I sat down and I read, you know,
like I went back to the basics. Like what exactly is project
management from that levels? Like I took myself over, like
next step over, next step over. And that is where I, I wasn't
reading what the example say. I was reading to remind myself
what project management and program management is all about
you. Know.
Understand what am I doing correcting my current position
and what could I develop more? Yeah.
And that was my aim like and I, I, I can easily tell you that
6-7 days I didn't even know what I was eating.
I honestly was like, there is food on the plate I'm eating.
That's pretty much the energy that I was going.
Wow wow wow. Do you find that the PGMP was?
I don't know what the the time span was between your PMP and
your PGMP. Did you find one of them a
little more difficult? Were they pretty similar in the
waves of PMI? And so for those who haven't
taken a certification through Project Management Institute,
you, there's enough information online to tell you they're not
easy. And so obviously with Raul
saying it took me days, sleepless nights, I didn't know
what I was eating half the time I was studying for this exam.
What are some of the key differences maybe that you
notice between APMP and APGMP that you can talk about?
So let me put it this way, When I wrote the PMP, that was the
toughest exam in my life. OK.
And I don't think I've ever done that for even my undergrad or my
college exam. Like, hey, those were
straightforward for me. Yeah.
But when I wrote the PGMPPMP seemed like a walk in the park.
Like, honestly speaking. Well, it was so interesting like
program management professional exam is more of a do you
understand what you need to do as opposed to what you need to
do right. So it is more of understand the
situation. What exactly is the best way of
doing that? Right.
Most of the options if you look at the program management like
if you when you look at PMP you can easily say one of these
options are not true. At all?
Yeah, process of elimination, right?
Yeah, exactly. But when it comes to PGMP, all
of them are so close that you really need to understand what
is the core, what do you say the core energy of program
management profession, like what are they aiming to do?
So when you get that knowledge, you can't really answer them.
And yeah, it was an interesting journey.
I would say like it's fast. And also I'm, I also sent an
e-mail to PM, PMI about this program management professional
exam is they have a lot of grammatical letters and some
questions you have, you actually have to extrapolate what they're
asking you. You have to imagine, oh, I think
this is what they're asking me. Yes.
And then answer based on that. Yes, yeah, understood.
Program management professional. I just pulled it up for those
that are interested because I'm going to assume our audience is
familiar with the PMP, but maybe not so much with the PGMP.
So based on what her whole has shared in terms of his journey
to get this certification, it looks like you need at least
four to seven years of experience.
This is again demonstrating an advanced level of expertise
through managing multiple projects in a coordinated way.
So if consider it in the way that Raul had painted the
picture between project, program, portfolio, product,
right and the difference is there.
But this certification would then verify that you have that
program management background, that experience in order to
navigate complexity and align to strategic objectives.
I think that's really critical as well.
So that is kind of the overall picture from APMI perspective of
what their certification is. You could couple that with what
Rahul has shared today and then make a decision for yourself.
You know, is PGMP the next step in your journey just as it was
for Rahul or is there another certification you're looking
for? Obviously, for those who have
been listening to the podcast for quite some time, you know,
I'm a huge proponent of continuing education, whether
it's through going back to school, getting another degree
or, and, or getting a certification.
So highly recommended to consider what Rahul has done in
his journey and apply that to where you're at as a project
management professional. Now, Rahul, I also know you're
heavily involved in PMI or at least you're an active member,
right of of your local chapter as well as the community.
So you've done all of this, you've shared your story with
our audience. I have a feeling you probably
will. This will not be the last
certification you go after. I'm just, if I was going to bet
any money on that, but outside of work, outside of studying for
the certification, obtaining that amazing milestone of being
the youngest PGMP holder, you get back to the community as
well. Number one, Rahul, you're I, I
know I typically don't touch on age, but you touched on it.
So we'll, we'll touch on it again.
You're very young to be doing all this stuff, so it's
incredible that you're able to do all the things that you're
you're able to do at this point in your career.
But let's talk a little bit about giving back to the
community because you do an element of that as well.
Where did that come from? How did that you know, was there
any inspirations throughout your professional journey that led
you to wanting to also give back to the community?
And you can you just describe for audience a little bit about
what you do to give back to the project management community?
No, thank you for bringing it up.
And like, so, so just so you guys know, I'm the VP of
education and certification for local PMI Michiana chapter.
I'm also the director of training and mentoring for the
Northeast Indiana chapter. That's so basically the entirety
of Indiana, two or three chapters I'm actively
participating in. And the reason I wanted to do
that is because growing up, I had to figure it out myself
because there wasn't a lot of existing knowledge, like let's
just put it that way, because I was jumping into product
management, program management. But I never, I had to figure it
out myself. Like I basically rolled in the
dirt myself and like, OK, this is what it means.
This works. This did not work.
That is the level of granularity I went to it when it comes to
the education. But looking at the litter of
knowledge available outside it is, it is no doubt like people
can get confused or scared when they're trying to get started in
this industry, right? And what is my main aim?
Like I want to demystify program management and product
management so that the people who are joining into the field
don't feel like, oh, I have to figure it out myself, you know.
So that is where my aim is because I don't, maybe it helped
me be who I am. Like I love doing that stuff
myself. But I do know that people like
guidance. I had the opportunity to have
amazing mentors and I am fortunate to be mentoring a lot
of folks as well. And that is not what I thought I
would be doing, honestly speaking.
So this is an opportunity for me to give back to the people who
basically pushed me to be where I am.
So that is why I'm very heavily involved.
So I do a lot of events in the Indiana region.
We go to community events and recently I've been in Saint
Francis University as well. I help guided young product
management professionals like students who are giving the
final projects. So that is where I think it
makes me feel satisfied because I know I didn't have the full
support when I was trying to figure it out myself.
Yeah, I can be that support for others who are trying to do
that. So it's.
Beautiful. It's beautifully said.
I've always thought that was one of the greatest things about
joining the project management community is we all have that
inspiration coming from somewhere, right?
Like you said, you didn't have that, so why can't I do that for
others who are now trying to come up into the same space?
I think it's such a beautiful thing that I whether it's PMI
that has promoted it or just inherently in the project
manager's mind, the fact that we also have been through it and we
want to give back. That's the best way for you to
share your experiences. That was really, really
beautifully said, Raul, and I'm glad that folks are able to
reach out to you. They're able to learn from you,
your journey. And then ultimately for this
podcast episode, I hope inspired to do more, whether it's also
joining their local chapter, PMI chapter or getting another
certification and I should promote to everybody.
This is not by any means this conversation is not promoted or
what do you call it. PMI is not sponsoring anything
around this. I think it's just a beautiful
thing that Rahul and I share in terms of our our love for the
community as well as the the opportunity to give back to
project management. So all of that to say, Rahul, is
there anything you wouldn't want to leave for the audience in
terms of kind of parting wisdom or words now that you've been
through the PGMP journey? So this might meet with a bit of
criticism, but I'm a huge believer in training my
replacement. So I love educating people so
that they can do things that I could never do before.
So if when you're getting into project management or program
management in any of these industries, one of the major
things that help you grow and help others grow is asking
questions. So I, I am probably the guy who
asked twenty stupid questions for every 100 questions I ask.
But those stupid questions matter a lot too because that is
where the code knowledge comes from and that is what I strongly
believe in. So my parting wisdom would be
learn each and don't be afraid to explore because if someone
says something, so be it. You.
You are always answerable to yourself, no one else.
Absolutely. Very nice, very nice.
So Rahul, you have to promise this one thing.
When you get your PFMP, I'm going to guess that's what the
purpose when you get your PFMP, you're going to come back to the
everyday PM and share your journey about that.
OK, so if if folks want to connect with you, learn more
about your story, where can people find you online?
Yeah, sure. So I'm always you can reach,
reach me on LinkedIn. So I would probably be the first
person that comes up. And if you are ever in the area,
hey, just drop me a message. If you're if you want to be
involved with the chapters, please drop me a message.
Like I am very eager to meet with you guys if you have any
questions, if you want to learn more about the journey and you
have specific questions that you can't find anywhere, I can
answer it. I would be the person happiest
to do that. So LinkedIn is my primary mode
of contact. You can also reach me through
the e-mail. You can find that on LinkedIn as
well. Awesome, awesome.
Well, Rahul, thank you so much for taking the time to walk us
through your journey. I think this has been
enlightening for all of us. Like I said, you're coming back
when you get your next certification and you're going
to remember the everyday PM audience when you're running PMI
one day. I, I, there's a lot of big
things coming from who I'm sure in the future.
So thank you again for your time today.
For folks that want to continue the conversation with me, you
can find me on LinkedIn and Campia.
You can also follow and subscribe to the Everyday PM
Podcast on any of your podcasting platforms.
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Everyday PM. Let us know what you thought
about today's conversation that will do it for Rahul and I in
this installment of the Everyday PM podcasts.
And until next time, take care.