1 00:00:02,880 --> 00:00:06,040 Welcome to the Everyday PM Podcast, the podcast where we 2 00:00:06,040 --> 00:00:08,800 discuss project management principles for your everyday 3 00:00:08,800 --> 00:00:10,960 life. My name is Anne Campia, I'm the 4 00:00:10,960 --> 00:00:14,360 founder and host of The Everyday PM as well as a project 5 00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:17,640 management enthusiast. I am so excited to welcome our 6 00:00:17,640 --> 00:00:19,800 very special guest who is Rahul Chenna. 7 00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:22,280 He is the program management professional. 8 00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:25,360 He's joining us today and we've got a lot to talk about in that 9 00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:27,520 space. So Rahul, for those who have not 10 00:00:27,520 --> 00:00:30,960 met you yet, please take a brief moment to introduce yourself to 11 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:33,000 our audience. Yeah, sure. 12 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:34,360 Of course. Thank you for the introduction. 13 00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:36,960 And so hi everyone. My name is Rahul Chenna. 14 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:42,000 I'm a very curious energetic program management professional. 15 00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:46,400 So I am currently working at Tire Rack as a senior program 16 00:00:46,400 --> 00:00:49,360 manager. So I basically look at the 17 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:54,160 customer experience for people who purchase tires online and I 18 00:00:54,160 --> 00:00:57,480 have a masters in engineering management and I also have a 19 00:00:57,480 --> 00:01:01,600 bachelor's in computer science and that's pretty much where I 20 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:05,239 try. I love making sense of chaos and 21 00:01:05,239 --> 00:01:07,560 putting them into standardized processes. 22 00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:11,480 And once I have a standardized process, I basically, what do 23 00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:15,160 you say, scale it up? So that's where I thrive. 24 00:01:15,520 --> 00:01:18,360 And I'm very excited to share whatever information that I have 25 00:01:18,360 --> 00:01:20,320 with you guys. And hopefully if you have any 26 00:01:20,320 --> 00:01:24,800 questions, I'll do my best. Let's let's talk a little bit 27 00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:29,560 about your professional journey. Was there an aha moment when you 28 00:01:29,560 --> 00:01:34,280 realized, you know, I'm doing program management, this is what 29 00:01:34,280 --> 00:01:37,800 I'm meant to be doing. A lot of us tend to fall into us 30 00:01:37,960 --> 00:01:41,000 at least in the project management space, which maybe 31 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:43,720 what we should clarify the difference between project and 32 00:01:43,720 --> 00:01:46,200 program, right? But a lot of us tend to fall 33 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:49,160 into it accidentally. So I'm curious in terms of your 34 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:51,920 professional journey, how did you figure out where you were 35 00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:54,400 meant to be so? That's actually a very 36 00:01:54,400 --> 00:01:58,120 interesting topic you brought up because I never set out to be a 37 00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:00,120 project or a program manager, honestly speaking. 38 00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:03,360 So I did my bachelor's in computer science and one of my 39 00:02:03,600 --> 00:02:06,400 main aims was to become a programmer. 40 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:11,560 And out of my undergraduate, I had a bit of stage fear. 41 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:14,320 So my first thing was I'm having stage fear. 42 00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:17,160 So I need to fix that. So I jumped into sales. 43 00:02:17,480 --> 00:02:19,320 So that was my first job out of undergrad. 44 00:02:19,640 --> 00:02:22,760 And since I was in undergrad, I was in sales. 45 00:02:22,760 --> 00:02:25,880 I was doing a lot of without knowing what I was doing. 46 00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:28,880 I was doing a lot of portfolio management, program and project 47 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:32,760 management. And since then I worked in 48 00:02:34,320 --> 00:02:37,120 construction, I worked as a product manager, I worked as a 49 00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:40,880 product manager, I worked as a consultant, I worked as a 50 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:44,880 program manager and in various industries like manufacturing, 51 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:48,200 construction, civil engineering, sales and marketing. 52 00:02:48,440 --> 00:02:55,280 Like none of these places, I, I never knew that I was doing 53 00:02:55,280 --> 00:02:58,440 that. I was doing that, you know, like 54 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:01,720 the reason I actually got into product management was because 55 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:05,800 my third company out of my undergrad, I was in a software 56 00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:11,280 engineering company and during one of the onboarding processes, 57 00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:14,960 they were like, hey, you have a lot of knowledge and management 58 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:16,960 skill. You are perfectly suited for 59 00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:21,040 product management. Just go there, you know, and 60 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:25,560 that basically opened my Ave. and I didn't even know what 61 00:03:25,560 --> 00:03:27,640 product management meant at. That time you. 62 00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:32,680 Know I I jumped into LinkedIn like I had access to LinkedIn 63 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:36,320 learning and I think I did like 80 to 90 courses like. 64 00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:39,400 Wow. Exactly is project management, 65 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:42,600 product management, What are the differences of like what do 66 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:45,320 people do, How do we do it? What are the techniques like 67 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:47,920 that is the type of person I am. I have an opportunity. 68 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:53,160 I'm just going to jump in. So that is how I realized that 69 00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:56,920 I've been doing product program and product management for the 70 00:03:56,920 --> 00:04:00,880 last three to four years of my life without actually knowing I 71 00:04:00,880 --> 00:04:03,360 was doing that. That's incredible. 72 00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:05,320 What? You're talking about is exactly 73 00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:09,200 what my journey was as well. I was basically pushed into it 74 00:04:09,480 --> 00:04:11,360 without I was knowing what I was doing. 75 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:15,960 And since I've been pushed into it, I basically embraced it. 76 00:04:16,079 --> 00:04:20,600 You know, I started going into it and now I'm the youngest 77 00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:23,360 program management professional holder in the world as of 78 00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:26,000 October 22nd, and I'm very proud of that. 79 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:28,400 Yeah. So let's let's before we dive 80 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:30,520 into that because I don't want to make an assumption that our 81 00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:33,960 audience knows the differences between project, program and 82 00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:36,560 product. What to you stood out about 83 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:39,640 those different areas? Because you know, when people 84 00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:43,440 refer to PM, sometimes they're talking about projects, 85 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:45,760 sometimes they're talking about products, sometimes they're 86 00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:48,360 talking about program, Let's not forget, maybe they're talking 87 00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:51,440 about portfolio. When you are doing that, you 88 00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:54,560 know, countless hours of going through these courses and really 89 00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:59,440 just absorbing what these roles were, Could you break it down 90 00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:03,200 for our audience in terms of, you know, in a very basic way, 91 00:05:03,280 --> 00:05:05,360 what is the key differences between those? 92 00:05:06,160 --> 00:05:10,720 So think about it this way. Let's go first with product and 93 00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:14,320 projects, OK, So project, program and portfolio, these 94 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:17,440 three are in the same packet. Product in itself is separate 95 00:05:17,440 --> 00:05:18,840 industry, let's just call it that bit. 96 00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:23,160 So the major difference between these projects and the product 97 00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:27,840 is that product is more customer focused where you have a 98 00:05:27,840 --> 00:05:31,360 specific product you're focusing on it is directly, customers are 99 00:05:31,360 --> 00:05:34,680 directly using it and you're responsible for ensuring that 100 00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:38,000 the product that you are developing has the best usage. 101 00:05:38,280 --> 00:05:40,160 Like what are your metric as it can be sales? 102 00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:42,200 What are that coming to projects? 103 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:45,720 OK, so projects, programs and portfolio. 104 00:05:45,720 --> 00:05:47,800 So that's basically the hierarchy it follows. 105 00:05:48,280 --> 00:05:52,080 So projects are essentially. So think about it this way. 106 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:55,640 You a company has a director, right? 107 00:05:55,640 --> 00:05:57,760 Like they want to make more money. 108 00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:00,080 Companies do that. That's what we are here about, 109 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:02,280 right? So they want to make more money. 110 00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:06,280 And the way of making more money is by initiative like strategic 111 00:06:06,280 --> 00:06:08,480 initiatives. And when you're looking at that 112 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:11,880 strategic initiatives, you can't just say, hey, make me 113 00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:15,120 $1,000,000 just like that. You need to have a plan to get 114 00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:19,520 to the $1,000,000, right? So that when we're talking about 115 00:06:19,520 --> 00:06:23,680 $1,000,000 of in revenue, that is where the portfolio comes in. 116 00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:27,000 It's probably 100 million different higher level, but just 117 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:30,160 for the sake of discussion. So that is where the portfolio 118 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:33,000 level is. So OK, I need to get, I need to 119 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:35,960 do something in order to get that excess amount of revenue. 120 00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:39,600 Sure. So you can't do a portfolio as 121 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:41,360 it is. You need to break it down into 122 00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:44,760 like you everyone knows WBS like work breakdown structure. 123 00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:47,560 So you want to break down into easy writable shocks. 124 00:06:48,120 --> 00:06:51,800 So basically portfolios are broken into programs. 125 00:06:52,040 --> 00:06:56,720 So programs are like collection of projects that basically are 126 00:06:56,720 --> 00:07:00,040 towards a single initiative. So portfolio can have like 6 or 127 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:03,840 7 initiative and each of them basically becomes a program in 128 00:07:03,840 --> 00:07:07,320 itself and under the program that is where you have the 129 00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:10,560 projects. So a program is like 6 or 7 130 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:14,160 projects that are working together to have a common goal. 131 00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:16,920 And maybe I'm I'm rambling that was. 132 00:07:16,960 --> 00:07:18,920 Great. No, that was perfect. 133 00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:23,080 Yeah, that's the gist of it. Like how do you ensure that 134 00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:25,680 you're meeting the organizational objectives 135 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:29,360 without over complicating stuff? And you do that in these 136 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:31,280 hierarchies. You do that with projects, you 137 00:07:31,280 --> 00:07:34,360 do that with programs and then with portfolios. 138 00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:38,080 It was a beautiful breakdown and I appreciate that just because 139 00:07:38,080 --> 00:07:40,440 I, I want to make sure the audience understands when now 140 00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:45,080 that we can talk about your accomplishment, that the reason 141 00:07:45,080 --> 00:07:48,200 why you and I had started chatting in the 1st place is 142 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:52,880 because in October of 2025, you hit a great milestone in your 143 00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:55,080 career. And so when we talk about 144 00:07:55,080 --> 00:07:57,800 program management, I wanted to make sure the audience was clear 145 00:07:57,800 --> 00:08:00,920 on what that actually meant. So let's get into the milestone, 146 00:08:00,920 --> 00:08:04,000 Rahul, I mean, you, you shared it, you, you alluded to it, but 147 00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:07,400 tell us again, you know, October, that feeling of 148 00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:10,480 accomplishment and getting the certification, but walk us 149 00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:12,240 through that entire journey for you. 150 00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:14,800 Oh my. God, I, I would just say that 151 00:08:15,920 --> 00:08:20,280 like my family and my girlfriend were like shocked because so I 152 00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:23,920 mean news first, like I am the youngest program management 153 00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:25,880 holders, certification holder in the world. 154 00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:28,920 I've spoken to. There is no official way of 155 00:08:28,920 --> 00:08:31,160 saying this. I've spoken to a bunch of 156 00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:33,080 people. I even spoke to Brian. 157 00:08:33,480 --> 00:08:36,840 Brian who actually did some research on program management 158 00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:40,400 holders and so far there is no one younger than me. 159 00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:43,880 So if anyone is to break that record, hey, please feel free. 160 00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:45,880 I, I, I would appreciate you guys too. 161 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:50,880 So I am the youngest recorded program management holder and 162 00:08:51,680 --> 00:08:54,240 I'm very pretty proud of that. Congratulations. 163 00:08:54,320 --> 00:09:00,160 Yeah, lot of yeah. It was a lot of work, but it was 164 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:05,360 worth it. So, so tell us about what point 165 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:09,040 did you decide I'm going to invest myself in getting the 166 00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:12,920 certification? Are you also PMP certified by 167 00:09:12,920 --> 00:09:14,680 the way? Yes, I am. 168 00:09:14,920 --> 00:09:16,760 OK, so I. Actually got my PMP 169 00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:19,520 certification because my university paid for it. 170 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:22,000 So I'm like, hey, you know what, Might as well get it, you know, 171 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:23,440 I've been doing it for a long time. 172 00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:25,880 I don't need to pay that money, so hell yeah. 173 00:09:26,520 --> 00:09:29,320 So folks are very familiar with PMP, right? 174 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:32,760 But for those that are just kind of getting into the industry or 175 00:09:32,760 --> 00:09:36,080 really haven't done enough research to understand what 176 00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:40,480 other certification is exist, you've got project management 177 00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:43,960 professional, you've got program management professional and 178 00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:46,200 you've got portfolio management professional. 179 00:09:46,200 --> 00:09:48,720 And they're just a plethora of others that have sprung up 180 00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:51,280 since, especially since I've started doing project management 181 00:09:51,280 --> 00:09:56,560 about 15 years ago. So as the youngest PGMP holder, 182 00:09:57,800 --> 00:09:59,880 what do you have to say in terms of the journey? 183 00:09:59,880 --> 00:10:02,040 What, what type of effort did it take? 184 00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:04,840 You know, I know you can't obviously disclose what's on the 185 00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:07,680 exam for folks that are interested in taking it, but 186 00:10:08,040 --> 00:10:11,000 walk us through that entire that entire journey for you. 187 00:10:11,960 --> 00:10:17,000 Yeah, so how I got started was that I want to, it's been a 188 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:20,120 while since I've set a personal goal for myself. 189 00:10:20,120 --> 00:10:22,000 So this was not a professional achievement for me. 190 00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:24,200 This was something that I want to do on a personal level. 191 00:10:24,680 --> 00:10:27,680 And I was like, you know what, I've been doing program 192 00:10:27,680 --> 00:10:33,200 management for a while now, but I have never actually sat down 193 00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:38,440 and learned all of the knowledge that I could consume like I did 194 00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:40,160 with product management, product management. 195 00:10:40,520 --> 00:10:44,840 So that was where my goal was. Like, I want to get all of the 196 00:10:44,840 --> 00:10:48,040 program management information, but it's not widely available 197 00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:51,320 anywhere. And I'm, I'm basically in the 198 00:10:51,320 --> 00:10:55,680 dirt trying to figure it out myself, you know, so that is 199 00:10:55,680 --> 00:10:59,680 where my journey started. I, I want to do it by before my 200 00:10:59,680 --> 00:11:01,560 birthday. So that was a deadline that I 201 00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:05,760 set for myself and it took sleepless nights. 202 00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:09,640 I would say. I think it's been 5 to 6 days of 203 00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:13,280 continuous education. I mean, definitely before that 204 00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:18,400 too, but before the exam it, it was actually a 7 or 8 months 205 00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:22,320 journey for me overall. And like the week before the 206 00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:27,880 exam, I took time off work and I sat down and I read, you know, 207 00:11:27,960 --> 00:11:31,680 like I went back to the basics. Like what exactly is project 208 00:11:31,680 --> 00:11:35,640 management from that levels? Like I took myself over, like 209 00:11:35,720 --> 00:11:40,080 next step over, next step over. And that is where I, I wasn't 210 00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:46,200 reading what the example say. I was reading to remind myself 211 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:49,000 what project management and program management is all about 212 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:49,720 you. Know. 213 00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:54,400 Understand what am I doing correcting my current position 214 00:11:54,680 --> 00:11:57,200 and what could I develop more? Yeah. 215 00:11:57,360 --> 00:12:02,960 And that was my aim like and I, I, I can easily tell you that 216 00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:05,200 6-7 days I didn't even know what I was eating. 217 00:12:05,840 --> 00:12:08,280 I honestly was like, there is food on the plate I'm eating. 218 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:10,600 That's pretty much the energy that I was going. 219 00:12:11,320 --> 00:12:15,840 Wow wow wow. Do you find that the PGMP was? 220 00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:19,480 I don't know what the the time span was between your PMP and 221 00:12:19,480 --> 00:12:23,120 your PGMP. Did you find one of them a 222 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:26,080 little more difficult? Were they pretty similar in the 223 00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:28,920 waves of PMI? And so for those who haven't 224 00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:32,040 taken a certification through Project Management Institute, 225 00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:36,480 you, there's enough information online to tell you they're not 226 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:41,640 easy. And so obviously with Raul 227 00:12:41,640 --> 00:12:44,200 saying it took me days, sleepless nights, I didn't know 228 00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:47,600 what I was eating half the time I was studying for this exam. 229 00:12:48,280 --> 00:12:50,600 What are some of the key differences maybe that you 230 00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:54,080 notice between APMP and APGMP that you can talk about? 231 00:12:55,280 --> 00:12:59,320 So let me put it this way, When I wrote the PMP, that was the 232 00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:01,680 toughest exam in my life. OK. 233 00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:06,120 And I don't think I've ever done that for even my undergrad or my 234 00:13:06,120 --> 00:13:07,680 college exam. Like, hey, those were 235 00:13:07,680 --> 00:13:09,240 straightforward for me. Yeah. 236 00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:13,880 But when I wrote the PGMPPMP seemed like a walk in the park. 237 00:13:14,240 --> 00:13:18,920 Like, honestly speaking. Well, it was so interesting like 238 00:13:19,640 --> 00:13:24,840 program management professional exam is more of a do you 239 00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:28,160 understand what you need to do as opposed to what you need to 240 00:13:28,160 --> 00:13:32,160 do right. So it is more of understand the 241 00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:35,440 situation. What exactly is the best way of 242 00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:36,640 doing that? Right. 243 00:13:37,280 --> 00:13:40,280 Most of the options if you look at the program management like 244 00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:44,320 if you when you look at PMP you can easily say one of these 245 00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:45,720 options are not true. At all? 246 00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:47,760 Yeah, process of elimination, right? 247 00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:50,760 Yeah, exactly. But when it comes to PGMP, all 248 00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:55,440 of them are so close that you really need to understand what 249 00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:59,640 is the core, what do you say the core energy of program 250 00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:02,400 management profession, like what are they aiming to do? 251 00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:06,040 So when you get that knowledge, you can't really answer them. 252 00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:09,720 And yeah, it was an interesting journey. 253 00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:14,320 I would say like it's fast. And also I'm, I also sent an 254 00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:18,360 e-mail to PM, PMI about this program management professional 255 00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:22,280 exam is they have a lot of grammatical letters and some 256 00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:26,600 questions you have, you actually have to extrapolate what they're 257 00:14:26,920 --> 00:14:29,440 asking you. You have to imagine, oh, I think 258 00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:31,160 this is what they're asking me. Yes. 259 00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:34,480 And then answer based on that. Yes, yeah, understood. 260 00:14:35,720 --> 00:14:39,280 Program management professional. I just pulled it up for those 261 00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:43,840 that are interested because I'm going to assume our audience is 262 00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:47,200 familiar with the PMP, but maybe not so much with the PGMP. 263 00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:50,320 So based on what her whole has shared in terms of his journey 264 00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:52,960 to get this certification, it looks like you need at least 265 00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:54,720 four to seven years of experience. 266 00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:58,840 This is again demonstrating an advanced level of expertise 267 00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:01,720 through managing multiple projects in a coordinated way. 268 00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:04,280 So if consider it in the way that Raul had painted the 269 00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:08,680 picture between project, program, portfolio, product, 270 00:15:08,680 --> 00:15:10,200 right and the difference is there. 271 00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:14,080 But this certification would then verify that you have that 272 00:15:14,080 --> 00:15:17,760 program management background, that experience in order to 273 00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:21,400 navigate complexity and align to strategic objectives. 274 00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:23,360 I think that's really critical as well. 275 00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:28,720 So that is kind of the overall picture from APMI perspective of 276 00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:31,720 what their certification is. You could couple that with what 277 00:15:31,720 --> 00:15:34,840 Rahul has shared today and then make a decision for yourself. 278 00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:38,520 You know, is PGMP the next step in your journey just as it was 279 00:15:38,520 --> 00:15:41,240 for Rahul or is there another certification you're looking 280 00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:43,040 for? Obviously, for those who have 281 00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:45,640 been listening to the podcast for quite some time, you know, 282 00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:49,000 I'm a huge proponent of continuing education, whether 283 00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:51,840 it's through going back to school, getting another degree 284 00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:53,320 or, and, or getting a certification. 285 00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:57,360 So highly recommended to consider what Rahul has done in 286 00:15:57,360 --> 00:16:01,440 his journey and apply that to where you're at as a project 287 00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:05,520 management professional. Now, Rahul, I also know you're 288 00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:08,320 heavily involved in PMI or at least you're an active member, 289 00:16:08,320 --> 00:16:11,000 right of of your local chapter as well as the community. 290 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:14,160 So you've done all of this, you've shared your story with 291 00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:16,360 our audience. I have a feeling you probably 292 00:16:16,360 --> 00:16:17,920 will. This will not be the last 293 00:16:17,920 --> 00:16:21,120 certification you go after. I'm just, if I was going to bet 294 00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:26,280 any money on that, but outside of work, outside of studying for 295 00:16:26,280 --> 00:16:29,280 the certification, obtaining that amazing milestone of being 296 00:16:29,280 --> 00:16:34,080 the youngest PGMP holder, you get back to the community as 297 00:16:34,080 --> 00:16:37,760 well. Number one, Rahul, you're I, I 298 00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:40,040 know I typically don't touch on age, but you touched on it. 299 00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:41,640 So we'll, we'll touch on it again. 300 00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:46,120 You're very young to be doing all this stuff, so it's 301 00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:48,920 incredible that you're able to do all the things that you're 302 00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:51,640 you're able to do at this point in your career. 303 00:16:51,640 --> 00:16:53,920 But let's talk a little bit about giving back to the 304 00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:56,720 community because you do an element of that as well. 305 00:16:57,000 --> 00:16:59,880 Where did that come from? How did that you know, was there 306 00:16:59,880 --> 00:17:03,360 any inspirations throughout your professional journey that led 307 00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:06,280 you to wanting to also give back to the community? 308 00:17:06,280 --> 00:17:09,760 And you can you just describe for audience a little bit about 309 00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:12,640 what you do to give back to the project management community? 310 00:17:13,599 --> 00:17:14,839 No, thank you for bringing it up. 311 00:17:14,839 --> 00:17:20,000 And like, so, so just so you guys know, I'm the VP of 312 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:23,839 education and certification for local PMI Michiana chapter. 313 00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:26,720 I'm also the director of training and mentoring for the 314 00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:29,680 Northeast Indiana chapter. That's so basically the entirety 315 00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:32,680 of Indiana, two or three chapters I'm actively 316 00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:36,960 participating in. And the reason I wanted to do 317 00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:42,760 that is because growing up, I had to figure it out myself 318 00:17:42,800 --> 00:17:48,360 because there wasn't a lot of existing knowledge, like let's 319 00:17:48,360 --> 00:17:51,480 just put it that way, because I was jumping into product 320 00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:55,080 management, program management. But I never, I had to figure it 321 00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:57,560 out myself. Like I basically rolled in the 322 00:17:57,560 --> 00:17:59,840 dirt myself and like, OK, this is what it means. 323 00:17:59,840 --> 00:18:01,120 This works. This did not work. 324 00:18:01,360 --> 00:18:05,240 That is the level of granularity I went to it when it comes to 325 00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:09,640 the education. But looking at the litter of 326 00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:15,160 knowledge available outside it is, it is no doubt like people 327 00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:18,840 can get confused or scared when they're trying to get started in 328 00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:22,520 this industry, right? And what is my main aim? 329 00:18:22,520 --> 00:18:26,360 Like I want to demystify program management and product 330 00:18:26,360 --> 00:18:30,840 management so that the people who are joining into the field 331 00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:35,440 don't feel like, oh, I have to figure it out myself, you know. 332 00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:40,320 So that is where my aim is because I don't, maybe it helped 333 00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:43,280 me be who I am. Like I love doing that stuff 334 00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:46,400 myself. But I do know that people like 335 00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:48,560 guidance. I had the opportunity to have 336 00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:52,560 amazing mentors and I am fortunate to be mentoring a lot 337 00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:56,120 of folks as well. And that is not what I thought I 338 00:18:56,120 --> 00:18:57,760 would be doing, honestly speaking. 339 00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:02,120 So this is an opportunity for me to give back to the people who 340 00:19:02,360 --> 00:19:04,600 basically pushed me to be where I am. 341 00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:08,840 So that is why I'm very heavily involved. 342 00:19:08,840 --> 00:19:12,080 So I do a lot of events in the Indiana region. 343 00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:18,200 We go to community events and recently I've been in Saint 344 00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:22,080 Francis University as well. I help guided young product 345 00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:24,920 management professionals like students who are giving the 346 00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:30,000 final projects. So that is where I think it 347 00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:35,880 makes me feel satisfied because I know I didn't have the full 348 00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:38,280 support when I was trying to figure it out myself. 349 00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:41,600 Yeah, I can be that support for others who are trying to do 350 00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:43,040 that. So it's. 351 00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:45,120 Beautiful. It's beautifully said. 352 00:19:45,120 --> 00:19:49,760 I've always thought that was one of the greatest things about 353 00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:54,040 joining the project management community is we all have that 354 00:19:55,120 --> 00:19:57,720 inspiration coming from somewhere, right? 355 00:19:57,840 --> 00:20:01,000 Like you said, you didn't have that, so why can't I do that for 356 00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:03,640 others who are now trying to come up into the same space? 357 00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:07,400 I think it's such a beautiful thing that I whether it's PMI 358 00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:10,360 that has promoted it or just inherently in the project 359 00:20:10,360 --> 00:20:13,560 manager's mind, the fact that we also have been through it and we 360 00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:15,600 want to give back. That's the best way for you to 361 00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:18,400 share your experiences. That was really, really 362 00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:21,960 beautifully said, Raul, and I'm glad that folks are able to 363 00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:24,560 reach out to you. They're able to learn from you, 364 00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:27,480 your journey. And then ultimately for this 365 00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:31,520 podcast episode, I hope inspired to do more, whether it's also 366 00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:35,800 joining their local chapter, PMI chapter or getting another 367 00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:38,800 certification and I should promote to everybody. 368 00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:43,240 This is not by any means this conversation is not promoted or 369 00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:47,280 what do you call it. PMI is not sponsoring anything 370 00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:49,480 around this. I think it's just a beautiful 371 00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:52,440 thing that Rahul and I share in terms of our our love for the 372 00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:56,200 community as well as the the opportunity to give back to 373 00:20:56,320 --> 00:21:00,240 project management. So all of that to say, Rahul, is 374 00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:03,000 there anything you wouldn't want to leave for the audience in 375 00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:05,800 terms of kind of parting wisdom or words now that you've been 376 00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:12,760 through the PGMP journey? So this might meet with a bit of 377 00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:17,360 criticism, but I'm a huge believer in training my 378 00:21:17,360 --> 00:21:22,960 replacement. So I love educating people so 379 00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:27,280 that they can do things that I could never do before. 380 00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:32,320 So if when you're getting into project management or program 381 00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:36,000 management in any of these industries, one of the major 382 00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:40,200 things that help you grow and help others grow is asking 383 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:45,160 questions. So I, I am probably the guy who 384 00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:47,960 asked twenty stupid questions for every 100 questions I ask. 385 00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:52,400 But those stupid questions matter a lot too because that is 386 00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:56,480 where the code knowledge comes from and that is what I strongly 387 00:21:56,480 --> 00:22:00,760 believe in. So my parting wisdom would be 388 00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:08,120 learn each and don't be afraid to explore because if someone 389 00:22:08,120 --> 00:22:11,280 says something, so be it. You. 390 00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:14,160 You are always answerable to yourself, no one else. 391 00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:17,240 Absolutely. Very nice, very nice. 392 00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:19,720 So Rahul, you have to promise this one thing. 393 00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:25,360 When you get your PFMP, I'm going to guess that's what the 394 00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:29,440 purpose when you get your PFMP, you're going to come back to the 395 00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:31,720 everyday PM and share your journey about that. 396 00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:36,560 OK, so if if folks want to connect with you, learn more 397 00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:39,360 about your story, where can people find you online? 398 00:22:40,120 --> 00:22:42,840 Yeah, sure. So I'm always you can reach, 399 00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:46,960 reach me on LinkedIn. So I would probably be the first 400 00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:50,920 person that comes up. And if you are ever in the area, 401 00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:54,400 hey, just drop me a message. If you're if you want to be 402 00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:56,520 involved with the chapters, please drop me a message. 403 00:22:56,520 --> 00:23:00,720 Like I am very eager to meet with you guys if you have any 404 00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:04,000 questions, if you want to learn more about the journey and you 405 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:07,240 have specific questions that you can't find anywhere, I can 406 00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:09,480 answer it. I would be the person happiest 407 00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:11,760 to do that. So LinkedIn is my primary mode 408 00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:14,560 of contact. You can also reach me through 409 00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:16,240 the e-mail. You can find that on LinkedIn as 410 00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:18,080 well. Awesome, awesome. 411 00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:21,480 Well, Rahul, thank you so much for taking the time to walk us 412 00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:23,360 through your journey. I think this has been 413 00:23:23,360 --> 00:23:26,080 enlightening for all of us. Like I said, you're coming back 414 00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:28,400 when you get your next certification and you're going 415 00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:32,360 to remember the everyday PM audience when you're running PMI 416 00:23:32,360 --> 00:23:34,280 one day. I, I, there's a lot of big 417 00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:36,200 things coming from who I'm sure in the future. 418 00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:38,000 So thank you again for your time today. 419 00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:40,560 For folks that want to continue the conversation with me, you 420 00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:42,560 can find me on LinkedIn and Campia. 421 00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:45,520 You can also follow and subscribe to the Everyday PM 422 00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:48,400 Podcast on any of your podcasting platforms. 423 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:51,520 Apple, Google, you name it, we're on their search for the 424 00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:53,760 Everyday PM. Let us know what you thought 425 00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:57,160 about today's conversation that will do it for Rahul and I in 426 00:23:57,160 --> 00:23:59,520 this installment of the Everyday PM podcasts. 427 00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:01,840 And until next time, take care.