1 00:00:10,320 --> 00:00:13,320 Welcome to the Everyday PM Podcast, the podcast where we 2 00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:16,200 discuss project management principles for your everyday 3 00:00:16,200 --> 00:00:18,280 life. My name is Anne Campia. 4 00:00:18,280 --> 00:00:21,080 I am the host and founder of The Everyday PM. 5 00:00:21,400 --> 00:00:26,040 I am also a lifelong project manager and a lifelong learner. 6 00:00:26,120 --> 00:00:29,200 And I'm so excited to have you here as well as our special 7 00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:34,240 guest today, Ajay Bargrove, who is coming to us from actually, I 8 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:35,760 don't know where you are situated. 9 00:00:35,760 --> 00:00:38,040 Can you can you let us know where you are located right now? 10 00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:40,440 Yes, I'm in Toronto. Wonderful. 11 00:00:40,440 --> 00:00:43,880 So today we are going to deep dive into the real world 12 00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:47,400 challenges and solutions that make project management work. 13 00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:51,040 In particular, we are going to explore one of the most 14 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:54,960 critical, yet often overlooked as overlooked aspects of project 15 00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:57,680 management when it comes to procurement. 16 00:00:57,680 --> 00:01:04,040 So Ajay, as our guest, I want to welcome you as well as let the 17 00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:08,760 audience know that you are the author of one of the my favorite 18 00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:12,840 books that I typically instruct with as part of my project 19 00:01:12,840 --> 00:01:16,200 procurement class. So you are the author of a 20 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:19,200 textbook that I use quite heavily as part of my courses 21 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:23,440 within my project management courses that I teach for unit, 22 00:01:23,440 --> 00:01:27,160 the University of California Riverside, as well as just an 23 00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:30,160 expert in this subject matter. So I'm so excited to welcome you 24 00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:33,400 to the podcast today. And for those who have not met 25 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:35,960 you or do not know of your background, can you give us a 26 00:01:35,960 --> 00:01:38,920 brief introduction? Yep, thanks. 27 00:01:39,080 --> 00:01:42,600 First of all, thanks for having me on this podcast and this is 28 00:01:42,960 --> 00:01:46,560 I've gone through all your previous podcast and all of them 29 00:01:46,560 --> 00:01:50,640 are so good. I really got to my introduction. 30 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:53,800 I would like to keep it sweet short like when spend like 2 31 00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:59,360 decades of working experience in procurement, supply chain. 32 00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:06,600 Fortunately, I have been touched by all the sectors, service, oil 33 00:02:06,600 --> 00:02:13,880 and gas majority is like EPCEPCM and yeah, some experience with 34 00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:17,640 the public company in the beginning of my career and that 35 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:22,920 made me where I am today. I'm a married guy and I have two 36 00:02:22,920 --> 00:02:27,840 three children and they keep teaching me more about the 37 00:02:27,840 --> 00:02:31,200 procurement and project management and I always treat 38 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:34,480 them my client and they are always tough to deal with. 39 00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:38,000 That's wonderful. Well, welcome and and thank you 40 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:40,400 for sharing a little bit about yourself as well as 41 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:44,640 professionally and personally. So we, we want to dive into this 42 00:02:44,640 --> 00:02:48,600 concept of project procurement because one of the things that 43 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:52,720 makes this book special is its practical approach, which is why 44 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:54,560 I like to utilize it with my students. 45 00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:58,680 Because when you hear the term project procurement, that can 46 00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:01,600 feel a little bit daunting. You know, project managers may 47 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:04,840 or not may not necessarily understand the concept of 48 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:07,360 procurement and what their involvement is. 49 00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:10,960 So let's start with the basics. So in your book, you emphasize 50 00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:14,240 that procurement isn't just about buying things, it's a 51 00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:16,800 strategic function. So can you break down for our 52 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:19,320 listeners what project procurement really means? 53 00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:23,440 Yeah. So when I was doing my PMP exam 54 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:27,000 in two 2012 and then 2013, I passed it out. 55 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:30,480 So I happened to be working at that stage. 56 00:03:30,480 --> 00:03:33,040 I just want to touch a little bit of background so that people 57 00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:35,720 can understand. And I was already working in 58 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:38,440 five years within the procurement and coming straight 59 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:41,360 out of the engineering college and now managing A procurement 60 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:45,560 department. It's it was a public utility and 61 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:47,960 it was making into the private sector. 62 00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:52,760 So there you have set of regulations, right? 63 00:03:52,760 --> 00:03:57,240 You have complete encyclopedia how you should be working, what 64 00:03:57,240 --> 00:03:59,880 you are supposed to do in certain scenarios. 65 00:03:59,880 --> 00:04:01,720 That's very much easy thing, right? 66 00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:05,240 You just go and check the regulations you have and act 67 00:04:05,240 --> 00:04:07,680 accordingly. Whether you like those 68 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:10,280 encyclopedias or not, that's a separate question. 69 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:18,519 So why why I started this book in 16 is with my experience and 70 00:04:18,519 --> 00:04:25,560 when I was starting my career I was struggling to get the proper 71 00:04:25,560 --> 00:04:28,120 knowledge on the procurement. There is a lot written on the 72 00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:32,160 project management philosophy. All it was chapter I think 73 00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:37,120 chapter 12 on the PMBOK 4th edition when I did my BMP. 74 00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:42,200 So very, very fine things were written, very crisp things and 75 00:04:42,200 --> 00:04:46,360 it was not detailed. Over the years, I realize it's a 76 00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:49,320 strategic function. It's not like transactional like 77 00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:52,920 it's not like just you know, issuing the purchase or getting 78 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:55,080 your material done. It's not like you do your 79 00:04:55,080 --> 00:04:58,160 groceries. It requires a lot of other 80 00:04:58,160 --> 00:04:59,640 things which you need to take care. 81 00:04:59,840 --> 00:05:04,240 It's a risk management function. It's you're not only trying to 82 00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:06,920 buy the material, but you are trying to deliver to your client 83 00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:12,520 and you know, make him feel happy for the requirement he ask 84 00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:16,360 for not even giving them the gold plated things, but not 85 00:05:16,360 --> 00:05:18,640 giving them some inferior quality products also. 86 00:05:19,400 --> 00:05:23,080 And you don't want to be like delayed on the schedules, right? 87 00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:27,640 And when it comes to project, we all know the iron triangle we 88 00:05:27,640 --> 00:05:30,960 have it's like scoop time and cost. 89 00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:33,000 So you don't want to delay anything. 90 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:36,920 If you if you delay on or you change any lever on the iron 91 00:05:36,920 --> 00:05:38,640 triangle, everything is affected. 92 00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:39,760 Sure. Sure. 93 00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:45,840 And one of the things that I appreciate is it really opens up 94 00:05:45,840 --> 00:05:48,640 the world of project management to your point, it's mentioned, 95 00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:52,960 but there hasn't been real material to make it, like I said 96 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:56,840 earlier, practical and or something that a concept that 97 00:05:56,840 --> 00:06:00,120 project managers can really grasp as part of their role. 98 00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:04,040 And so as you started to incorporate more of the 99 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:08,000 procurement acumen into your own practice as a project manager, 100 00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:11,560 can you tell us a little bit about what gap you were trying 101 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:14,920 to fill when you wrote this particular book? 102 00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:19,240 So my intention when I was writing this book was to fill up 103 00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:22,640 the gap, right? How if I am acting as a buyer or 104 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:26,160 the project procurement manager, So what should be going into my 105 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:28,080 mind? I should be concentrating on the 106 00:06:28,080 --> 00:06:32,600 schedule, I should be focusing on cost or I should try to bring 107 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:34,840 the best value to the client or to the project. 108 00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:37,960 So those were the things which were going on mine. 109 00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:41,000 And apart from that, you have set of compliances with you 110 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:43,560 which you need to take care when it comes to procurement. 111 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:45,240 It's, it's a trading of coal, right? 112 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:49,840 You get your hands dirty, somebody can always point finger 113 00:06:49,840 --> 00:06:51,720 on you. It's, it's, it's the easiest 114 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:53,640 thing in the world to point a finger on the procurement. 115 00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:57,360 If anything goes delayed and you know, something goes wrong, oh, 116 00:06:57,360 --> 00:06:59,120 it's your supplier, it's procurement. 117 00:07:00,320 --> 00:07:04,560 So how would you deliver within the iron triangle controlling 118 00:07:04,560 --> 00:07:07,160 all the parameters? Not exactly. 119 00:07:07,160 --> 00:07:11,640 You know, it's, it's not like a corporate purchasing where you 120 00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:14,720 you can delay, right. It's coming for the for some 121 00:07:14,720 --> 00:07:17,280 utilization. It's not a very complex item 122 00:07:17,560 --> 00:07:20,280 whenever you're doing a project, it's unique all the time. 123 00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:21,200 Yeah. Yeah. 124 00:07:21,720 --> 00:07:27,320 So it's not like a defined requirement all over again, 125 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:29,680 right. So maybe you are buying the same 126 00:07:29,680 --> 00:07:33,240 sub, same, same transformer, but it's with maybe the different 127 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:36,760 specifications maybe getting manufactured for the very first 128 00:07:36,760 --> 00:07:40,080 time. But I mean, that is why, you 129 00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:44,400 know, it's, it's very, very niche area where we need to 130 00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:48,160 spend more time. It's not just buying, it's not 131 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:50,320 just buying, it's not just about the cost. 132 00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:54,080 It's about all of the factors, schedule a relationship with the 133 00:07:54,080 --> 00:07:57,800 vendor, keeping your stakeholders informed, keeping 134 00:07:57,800 --> 00:08:00,760 them aligned, keeping them on all the same page, right? 135 00:08:00,760 --> 00:08:03,680 So, and it's, it's like it's teared, right? 136 00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:05,240 It's there are many layers on it. 137 00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:10,600 So which I was trying to, you know, uncover when I was writing 138 00:08:10,600 --> 00:08:13,920 this book. And the the biggest task or the 139 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:18,320 difficulty I had is like, how should I process this 140 00:08:18,320 --> 00:08:23,240 information in the easiest, simplest form so that if 141 00:08:23,240 --> 00:08:26,160 somebody is reading for the first time, he should, you know, 142 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:28,000 make some idea. OK, this is the first step. 143 00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:32,559 OK, let's OK, supply selection. What comes before, oh, purchase 144 00:08:32,559 --> 00:08:34,640 equation. But why purchase equation? 145 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:37,799 Because there was some demand. So I tried to, you know, it's 146 00:08:37,799 --> 00:08:41,440 all that goes in circle, supply management in circle, right? 147 00:08:42,640 --> 00:08:46,680 But then that was the thing when I was writing those book, that 148 00:08:46,680 --> 00:08:49,200 part of the book. And that is the most difficult 149 00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:55,440 thing also to, to make readers aware how they should understand 150 00:08:55,440 --> 00:08:58,960 the book and the flow with the with the chapter it flows. 151 00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:02,120 Still, I know some of the readers might not might not have 152 00:09:02,120 --> 00:09:05,480 found it, you know, some might say why not? 153 00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:09,960 Income terms come before financial evaluation because 154 00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:15,520 that is dependent on your company, dependent on the Bay 155 00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:17,200 you are doing project procurement. 156 00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:19,920 Right, right. And you wanna tailor it to your 157 00:09:19,920 --> 00:09:23,080 needs, right. And I I will commend you because 158 00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:26,200 you question whether the book is effective in doing so. 159 00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:29,640 And I can attest to it is because the yes. 160 00:09:29,920 --> 00:09:32,840 And I'm, I'm just gonna share a quick anecdote before I get into 161 00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:37,240 our next question for you, which is as part of our course, I 162 00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:40,800 couple that with the concept of quality and how procurement and 163 00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:44,160 quality kind of go hand in hand. And one of the things that I'm 164 00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:47,560 proud to say that comes out of discussions about the material 165 00:09:47,560 --> 00:09:51,080 you provide for my course is that within your book, because 166 00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:54,600 it's practical, I hear the students and their anecdotes 167 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:58,440 about how they've been utilizing the text to then influence what 168 00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:00,960 they do in their day-to-day jobs. 169 00:10:00,960 --> 00:10:04,560 And so one of the examples that I'll give is we had a really 170 00:10:04,560 --> 00:10:10,000 nice active conversation with my students about acquiring certain 171 00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:12,200 materials. And in this case, it was 172 00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:17,400 somebody that was working to build a automotive and one of 173 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:20,520 the pieces of materials they talked about was, you know, we 174 00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:24,320 had a choice in the procurement process to go with a vendor that 175 00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:28,040 would supply us with a piece of that material that would come a 176 00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:31,120 little bit faster. It was a little less expensive. 177 00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:34,880 However, you know, for our company's objectives, one of the 178 00:10:34,880 --> 00:10:38,720 things we promote is we we provide high quality products. 179 00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:42,680 And so it was a very active conversation with a group about 180 00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:47,320 what are some of the choices you have to make as part of 181 00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:51,080 procurement in your vendor selection process to ensure that 182 00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:54,560 the materials you're procuring are also to the standards of 183 00:10:54,560 --> 00:10:57,600 what the company is expecting. And so they were able to apply a 184 00:10:57,600 --> 00:11:01,320 lot of what you said within your textbook and then put that 185 00:11:01,320 --> 00:11:04,480 against a real world example, which I was very, very proud of 186 00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:07,880 them for being able to do that. And it did spur this active 187 00:11:07,880 --> 00:11:11,200 conversation around how procurement can directly affect 188 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:14,560 something like the quality of what it is that you're trying to 189 00:11:14,560 --> 00:11:18,760 procure and how you have as a project manager have influence 190 00:11:18,760 --> 00:11:22,040 and decisions to make or help influence the group to make a 191 00:11:22,040 --> 00:11:25,760 decision around what is most important for you, right? 192 00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:27,480 Is it the quality of the material? 193 00:11:27,480 --> 00:11:29,240 Is it the cost? Is it the time? 194 00:11:29,560 --> 00:11:33,280 So to your point, procurement is intertwined in all of that in 195 00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:35,040 which a project manager is looking at. 196 00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:39,040 So that gets me to my question for you, which is from what 197 00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:41,800 you've seen in your experience, what are some of the most common 198 00:11:41,800 --> 00:11:45,720 procurement mistakes that you might see a project managers 199 00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:48,080 making? And I know I provided one 200 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:50,800 example of how my students have discussed it, but do you have a 201 00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:53,120 example that you are willing to share with us? 202 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:59,040 So I think the biggest pitfall I saw when it comes to project 203 00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:02,200 procurement is like in the beginning of the project, you 204 00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:05,600 got your order from the client and now project manager is all 205 00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:08,360 excited. I'll get things done quickly. 206 00:12:08,360 --> 00:12:11,600 I'll get my specification done by the engineering, you know, 207 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:17,200 make run to do place all the orders quickly, right? 208 00:12:17,400 --> 00:12:20,680 And then, you know, present it to client O all that is a place. 209 00:12:20,680 --> 00:12:24,080 Now everything is coming in 16 weeks, 20 weeks or 4 weeks. 210 00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:26,360 Now we can plan the construction side of it. 211 00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:31,600 The the important thing the project manager is missing is 212 00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:35,560 it's not about, you know, pushing some papers to the 213 00:12:35,560 --> 00:12:37,640 vendor and placing order. Sure. 214 00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:42,240 And and that is the biggest pitfall and they pay the price. 215 00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:47,560 All the years I've seen, it's not just one project I've seen 216 00:12:47,560 --> 00:12:51,040 I've done multiple projects with multiple companies in different 217 00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:55,160 sectors and that is the biggest pitfall I saw that and it's a 218 00:12:55,160 --> 00:12:57,440 knowledge gap. All the project manager might be 219 00:12:57,440 --> 00:13:01,040 intelligent, he knew it already, but then they are running behind 220 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:05,800 the skill in the beginning and the moment you know what, it'll 221 00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:09,760 start coming. They realize, Oh, I, I should 222 00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:13,840 have waited for a little bit long and then you know from my 223 00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:17,920 specification and requirements and they start paying the price 224 00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:20,040 later. And towards the end of the 225 00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:24,240 cycle, when your project is about to be completed, they have 226 00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:28,080 to pay through the news and they're they're really going mad 227 00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:32,320 about the cost controlling. They are not so aware they, 228 00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:35,000 they, they are, although they have the knowledge, but they 229 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:38,280 were not aware that this is, this is going to happen just to 230 00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:42,480 make your client feel good. In the beginning, you are 231 00:13:42,760 --> 00:13:48,600 creating a lot of mess once the things start coming in And that 232 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:51,000 is why I said it in the beginning that it's a very 233 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:55,200 strategic function, very niche. You need to think about those 234 00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:57,880 things. So you don't want to do root 235 00:13:57,880 --> 00:14:02,920 cause analysis and lesson learnt in every material you bought but 236 00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:06,080 you should be, you know we are buying commodities like 237 00:14:06,080 --> 00:14:09,840 something related to copper, steel or something and those are 238 00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:11,600 the prices which are fluctuating. 239 00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:14,760 They have their own lead times. So you need to understand when 240 00:14:14,760 --> 00:14:19,400 to buy, how much to buy and if you don't have to buy, why you 241 00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:22,960 do not have to buy right now. You can wait some time, right. 242 00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:28,400 But I have not seen a single project manager who has said to 243 00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:34,680 me, Hey, AJ, I want you to buy 1234 and then leave in between 244 00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:36,560 line item. You don't have to buy right now 245 00:14:36,880 --> 00:14:40,240 because I see this will, you know, this will kill us on the 246 00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:43,680 costing if you buy the field prices or something structural 247 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:47,880 steel or say anything related to copper and that will shoot up 248 00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:51,040 your overall, you know, screw up the budgets. 249 00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:54,640 Yeah. So that is something where I 250 00:14:54,640 --> 00:14:58,840 would say that the biggest pitfall I saw, yeah, even though 251 00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:02,400 project managers are aware that they might be screwed up on the 252 00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:09,040 cost, but I've not seen a single one who has, you know, came and 253 00:15:09,040 --> 00:15:11,720 negotiated all. You don't buy everything right 254 00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:13,960 now. So that's the biggest footfall. 255 00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:20,640 And another one I would say is the misunderstanding of the 256 00:15:20,640 --> 00:15:25,240 misconceptions, especially the new buyers or new government 257 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:30,440 engineers who are starting their career just after the college is 258 00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:33,920 like they think, oh, I did not see the purchase requisition. 259 00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:36,960 I need not to act. Yeah. 260 00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:40,040 So that is the biggest pitfall for the buyers. 261 00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:42,480 I mentioned project manager but got to just start with the 262 00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:46,440 project manager. So, but the procurement has to 263 00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:51,440 act much before that the moment project is being bugged or you 264 00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:54,360 are bidding for some client, OK, some project you have not 265 00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:57,880 received it. But if your companies allows you 266 00:15:57,880 --> 00:16:01,760 guys have man hours and you have such a process where you can 267 00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:05,800 integrate yourself when you are bidding actually not during the 268 00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:09,200 execution that makes life easier for everyone. 269 00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:11,320 Project manager, client procurement. 270 00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:15,040 So that's the second thing. I mean the misconception about 271 00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:16,640 purchasing stats with the purchase. 272 00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:18,960 Yeah. So those are the biggest one I 273 00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:22,600 saw and there there are many things which you can discuss, 274 00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:25,840 but these are the biggest one I would say. 275 00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:29,880 Because, yeah, yeah, absolutely. And then I think intertwined in 276 00:16:29,880 --> 00:16:34,520 there, as you're talking about procurement being strategic over 277 00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:39,560 transactional, is this concept of introducing, at least the way 278 00:16:39,560 --> 00:16:42,320 I teach it to my PMS, the soft skills that are involved in 279 00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:45,800 procurement too, right, Because there is this aspect of vendor 280 00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:48,120 relationship management. That comes along with. 281 00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:50,520 Yeah. So you touched on that a little 282 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:51,720 bit. So I wanna go a little bit 283 00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:54,240 deeper into that. So one of the things that really 284 00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:57,920 stood out to me in your book is this emphasis on relationship 285 00:16:57,920 --> 00:17:00,440 management with your vendors and your suppliers. 286 00:17:01,160 --> 00:17:05,400 A lot of my junior project managers within my classes still 287 00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:07,960 question how they're involved and even that process. 288 00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:11,800 But I like to emphasize to them, this seems, while it seems to go 289 00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:14,440 beyond traditional contract, you know, management or project 290 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:17,599 management, there's still that aspect when you trace it back to 291 00:17:17,599 --> 00:17:20,200 those critical relationships that you have to build and 292 00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:21,880 maintain as part of your project. 293 00:17:21,880 --> 00:17:25,319 So can you talk a little bit about why you thought it was 294 00:17:25,319 --> 00:17:27,839 important to emphasize that as part of procurement? 295 00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:31,120 Yes. And and you test very important 296 00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:34,160 perspective or very pertinent point, right. 297 00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:39,040 If we are buying the procurement is also not just about managing 298 00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:41,960 your risk, but it's about managing people, right. 299 00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:43,480 It's a people management function. 300 00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:46,680 And I used to challenge my human resources guys. 301 00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:49,880 Sometime, you know, we are also doing, you know, people 302 00:17:49,880 --> 00:17:52,960 management, not just out to my manager sometime I'm also 303 00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:56,480 managing people. And you used to say, oh, you are 304 00:17:56,480 --> 00:17:58,600 managing becoming. No, I'm managing people. 305 00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:04,280 It's a relationship, right? Yeah, and and if you vomit out 306 00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:09,280 or others other words, which other priority is not going to 307 00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:14,600 like you need to think 10 times before opening up your mouth. 308 00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:20,120 Yeah, because some people say, OK, I'm very open, 309 00:18:20,120 --> 00:18:23,480 straightforward kind of person. I will go ahead and tell the 310 00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:25,960 vendor this is not the great thing you did. 311 00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:30,080 You need to decide what is the right time to communicate. 312 00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:32,960 You don't want to relay all the messages today. 313 00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:37,080 So and that is why your relationship with the vendor is 314 00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:38,800 very important. You don't want to kill the 315 00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:42,000 relationship just trying pointing a finger. 316 00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:45,120 Oh, because you delayed and now my project is screwed up. 317 00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:48,640 I have to pay the penalties to the client and I'm going to 318 00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:50,200 blacklist you from the next time. 319 00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:53,280 Obviously, you're trying to kill the whole relationship. 320 00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:57,280 You need to be empathetic. And these are capital projects. 321 00:18:57,280 --> 00:19:01,200 These are the project which evolve all the time, right? 322 00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:05,280 So we have to be empathetic and then flexible during the 323 00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:06,960 execution of the project specifically. 324 00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:08,960 Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. 325 00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:11,720 Yeah. So that's the biggest thing and 326 00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:17,640 that is why I if if you have seen that I've written long term 327 00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:21,440 contracts right over the years. If you are executing the same 328 00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:25,320 kind of projects, right, you get to meet the same kind of same 329 00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:26,880 set of suppliers. Most of the time. 330 00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:33,760 If it is, if you newly, if you got new project and you are not 331 00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:38,400 executing completely new thing, you going to see the same set of 332 00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:41,240 people. It's not just for today, it's 333 00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:43,400 for tomorrow and it's for future. 334 00:19:44,120 --> 00:19:47,760 So he should not be spoiling the relationship, not with the 335 00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:51,840 vendor, not with client. Also there are ways to 336 00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:55,840 communicate. Get your things done easily with 337 00:19:56,120 --> 00:20:00,680 being polite, being empathetic and being considering yourself 338 00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:02,600 some time in the shoes of supplier. 339 00:20:03,360 --> 00:20:05,280 OK, this might have happened to me. 340 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:10,560 The cultural boundaries or the tariff boundaries like we have 341 00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:14,760 been hearing a lot, much on the tariff from the states recently 342 00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:18,080 that has clogged deliveries on the ports. 343 00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:23,000 But that is something beyond the control of supplier. 344 00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:25,880 So we need to be a little empathetic, understand the 345 00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:30,120 situation, OK, It's not him, it's some trade conflicts 346 00:20:30,120 --> 00:20:33,760 ongoing. And you need to communicate same 347 00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:36,680 way to your client. Try to bring everyone on the 348 00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:39,720 same page, try to find a solution instead of pointing a 349 00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:42,080 finger. So it's the key of whole 350 00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:45,080 procurement. If you have the best contract, 351 00:20:45,560 --> 00:20:49,320 you have best compliances, but you have the bitter relationship 352 00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:52,840 with the vendor, your project gonna fail 200%. 353 00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:55,320 Absolutely. Absolutely. 354 00:20:55,360 --> 00:20:57,240 Really beautifully said. Yeah. 355 00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:01,880 And that alone, that component alone of the way that you 356 00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:06,000 describe it in your book always resonates with every cohort that 357 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:08,720 I teach. Is they something? 358 00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:11,880 It's not that they forget that there's this aspect of utilizing 359 00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:14,880 soft skills and the empathy that you're saying and building those 360 00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:18,120 relationships. But maybe it's you do such a 361 00:21:18,120 --> 00:21:21,920 good job of connecting the dots between again, why procurement 362 00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:28,600 is so a strategic management over transactional, but also in 363 00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:32,080 what you just described the longevity of the relationships. 364 00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:34,720 These are stakeholders like anybody else, even people that 365 00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:36,280 you would be working with internally. 366 00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:40,200 And so the best that you can do that as a project manager, and I 367 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:42,840 think that's very effective in the way that you paint the 368 00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:45,800 picture for my students is that's right. 369 00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:50,120 Even though they're external, maybe suppliers or vendors, they 370 00:21:50,120 --> 00:21:52,680 still very much are a part of the project just like anybody 371 00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:54,560 else. That is, that would be a part of 372 00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:57,000 your internal project team. And then that starts to click, 373 00:21:57,000 --> 00:22:00,360 and then it starts to become a really, really fun concept for 374 00:22:00,360 --> 00:22:02,480 them to grasp. Yeah, they, they're a part of 375 00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:06,200 your project the very first day. So you have a kick off meeting. 376 00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:09,240 So even before that they you should have a relationship. 377 00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:13,040 If I'm talking to five different bidders and the order is not 378 00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:17,800 finalized, I should not be biased about one or other bidder 379 00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:21,040 and thinking, OK, this is going to get the order, let's forget 380 00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:26,280 about others, consider them there on the project until you 381 00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:29,840 decide, OK. Or even if I have had situations 382 00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:35,480 where in some of the projects we have awarded A vendor a bit big 383 00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:39,120 based on price, based on best judgments, but something 384 00:22:39,120 --> 00:22:42,120 happened not to our set with them. 385 00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:47,400 Some things happens, right? And then they said, oh, we are 386 00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:52,200 very sorry, we cannot execute. Yeah, we have gone into 387 00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:54,560 financial classes or something, right? 388 00:22:54,560 --> 00:23:00,160 So then you should be able to go back to option #2 the best 389 00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:04,520 options you had, right? You don't want to go start from 390 00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:08,520 the scratch and you know, create all the documents now are issued 391 00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:10,040 to the market, start working again. 392 00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:11,480 No, you don't want to do that, right? 393 00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:17,160 So keeping your relationship clean, I suite is the best thing 394 00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:18,760 if you are in procurement, right. 395 00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:21,760 And everywhere I'm not in procurement in general, project 396 00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:25,560 manager is also keeping, they understand this right, that you 397 00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:28,080 don't want to spoil that relation with the client because 398 00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:29,760 he's important. Yeah. 399 00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:33,920 So it's just the meter of the project manager maintains with 400 00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:36,160 the client, maintains with the supplier. 401 00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:40,080 It's a great way to put it. I want to pick your brain about 402 00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:44,200 something outside of relationships and just because 403 00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:47,960 it's so relevant in the in the environment that we're currently 404 00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:50,120 in. So I don't know even know if 405 00:23:50,120 --> 00:23:54,120 you've thought about this, Ajay, in terms of how do you see AI 406 00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:58,800 impacting procurement processes, Have you thought about that yet 407 00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:03,120 in terms it's a little bit of a curveball here? 408 00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:05,640 Yeah, yeah. No, no, it's talk of the town 409 00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:11,040 and it's not that we can. It's just like, you know, when 410 00:24:11,360 --> 00:24:14,440 people were talking 1980s of supercomputer computers are 411 00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:18,440 coming to the market and man, humans will be jobless. 412 00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:21,880 They don't have anything to work because it, it has, you know, 413 00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:26,080 very great processing powers and this and that they can calculate 414 00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:29,440 and snip. It's, it's something like that, 415 00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:33,000 right. So the only challenge is for 416 00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:36,600 people like us who are already spending two decades in the 417 00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:39,840 market is to gear up themselves, right? 418 00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:43,920 AI is going to be the next revolution. 419 00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:46,760 And I know the companies has already started. 420 00:24:47,360 --> 00:24:51,160 Obviously if one company is investing efforts in say 421 00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:55,360 bringing AI system to their company just to reduce the cost 422 00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:58,320 because they want to be competitive compared to their 423 00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:01,680 competitors, obviously the competition has to gear up 424 00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:04,800 themselves. It's not about snatching jobs 425 00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:09,360 from the mankind and giving it to the computer to process. 426 00:25:09,360 --> 00:25:11,600 No, it's not like that. We need to learn. 427 00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:16,000 We need to grow ourself into AI, and it's not difficult. 428 00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:22,880 People have been talking about ChatGPT perplexity cloud. 429 00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:25,000 There's so many chat bots, is it? 430 00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:28,560 But these are very, very nascent, or I would say at a 431 00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:31,840 very young stage. And this is going to change in 432 00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:36,000 say, another two to three years. I see that people are still 433 00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:38,440 using those things are like Google, right? 434 00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:43,480 Just correcting things on grammar, writing emails, but 435 00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:45,440 that is nothing. That's just the beginning. 436 00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:51,920 AI is if I see procurement is gonna give you scorecard for the 437 00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:55,560 supplies, you don't have to because that is the area where 438 00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:59,760 any company wants to evaluate their supplies, how they 439 00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:04,080 performed in say last project, how they have been on the 440 00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:05,520 relationship. Yeah. 441 00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:09,240 How many claims they sent to us or how many claims we have to 442 00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:14,480 send to them or how much market they are controlling those 443 00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:18,200 things right now buyers are doing themselves, they get 444 00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:23,640 information collected and say, OK, I think A is better than B 445 00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:26,000 because they have a better market share. 446 00:26:26,360 --> 00:26:31,960 They have been doing same. If I talk about my company or my 447 00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:34,800 area, they are like 60% controlling the market share. 448 00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:37,440 They are getting 60% of the projects we are awarding to the 449 00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:40,360 market. Those kind of things you can get 450 00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:44,200 like this yeah. Tell me which supplier for which 451 00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:48,520 component say for I keep saying transformer, give me power 452 00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:53,280 transformer 50 MW and in considering my last three 453 00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:58,200 projects and tell me which one is the best suppliers we had and 454 00:26:58,200 --> 00:26:59,520 you'll get information like this. 455 00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:02,520 You don't have to spend time right that will make you more 456 00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:06,280 efficient to save your own time. Obviously we don't need like 457 00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:10,040 4050 sixty people to manage the procurement of a capital 458 00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:12,280 project. You might need 5 or 10. 459 00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:18,280 But then if you don't give up or the buyers or the young supply 460 00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:22,160 chain folks don't want to learn yet, I'm sorry to say that they 461 00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:27,000 have to be thinking about doing something with the hand and 462 00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:30,600 something, some skilled building or something else they can do. 463 00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:34,320 But if you want to do something in procurement, you need to 464 00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:37,520 learn all those tools. AI is going to be beautiful. 465 00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:40,840 I'm telling you, you don't have to do the financial evaluation 466 00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:43,640 of the supplier. You check the financial health, 467 00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:46,720 right? If just like banks, right? 468 00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:50,240 They check, OK, what is your credit score and how much you 469 00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:53,400 are earning, how long you have been into this job. 470 00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:55,920 They asked all those core kind of questions. 471 00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:59,320 Similarly, you evaluate your suppliers on the financials, you 472 00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:01,480 check their OK, give me your financial statements for the 473 00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:06,600 last three years or give me DNB ratings and then you make 474 00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:09,440 decision, right? Those details are gonna be easy. 475 00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:11,880 Yeah, very, very quick. Yes. 476 00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:14,880 And you just have to apply, OK? Now I have everything. 477 00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:17,800 I don't have to waste like 2 weeks in collecting, gathering 478 00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:20,760 this information, processing, analyzing and making final 479 00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:23,200 decision. I have this information right 480 00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:24,040 away, Yeah. Yeah. 481 00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:28,200 You save a lot of time so we need to get up our self as a 482 00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:30,400 procurement or supply chain guys. 483 00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:32,640 That is what I feel about AI. Yeah. 484 00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:35,400 And I believe you because I see you as the expert here. 485 00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:39,000 And I think I think in everything that you said, AI is 486 00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:41,880 only going to further emphasize what you've been trying to 487 00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:46,240 promote this whole conversation, which is seeing procurement as a 488 00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:50,240 strategic function of a project manager. 489 00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:53,520 So thank you for appeasing me and looking into the future. 490 00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:57,160 So my final question to you, in terms of folks that want to get 491 00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:00,400 a little bit more practical with procurement and for someone 492 00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:02,640 listening to the podcast who wants to improve their 493 00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:06,560 procurement processes tomorrow, what are some of the top 494 00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:10,000 actionable steps that they should take in order to do so? 495 00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:14,040 So just be covered AI Start learning about AI. 496 00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:17,240 Yeah, so that's the first thing. There are a lot of lot many 497 00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:19,040 things. There are hell lot of courses 498 00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:21,720 coming up from all the Rapido universities. 499 00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:25,200 Even I think University of California Riverside must have 500 00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:28,720 one and it I believe I saw one is available. 501 00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:33,960 Yes, that's the first thing you should be getting accustomed 502 00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:37,480 with the technology, right, So you don't feel lagged behind. 503 00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:42,160 The second important thing is like since the data availability 504 00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:47,200 or analysis would be so easier. So if you want to improve your 505 00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:51,560 supply chain or your procurement cycle, you should be looking OK, 506 00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:54,960 what are the long lead items? That's first thing you should 507 00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:59,080 see any procurement is, is everything is not critical on 508 00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:02,760 the project, right? It's like Pareto like 8020 509 00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:05,520 rules. So only 20% of the item which 510 00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:07,440 going to hamper your project schedule. 511 00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:11,120 You don't want to buy at the end, you don't buy it want to 512 00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:13,960 buy at the beginning so that items are lost or materials are 513 00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:18,360 lost in the site. But you need to think about and 514 00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:23,560 I, I, I can say there is very good textable label classic 515 00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:28,120 metrics is available where you can, you know, divide your 516 00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:31,720 supply chain, what is important, what is critical, what is 517 00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:35,320 miscellaneous and then you make your decisions accordingly. 518 00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:40,920 Focus on the very important items, see their schedule, what 519 00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:44,440 are the supplies available for those particular items in the 520 00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:47,320 market and how they have performed. 521 00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:50,400 So you can gather that information even if you're not 522 00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:54,680 doing any procurement right now. And if you're starting, say 523 00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:59,400 fresh procurement department within the company, start 524 00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:02,080 building your data and then try to analyse later. 525 00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:07,520 So, so you need to divide a supply chain which items to 526 00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:09,920 focus. We don't have the time of whole 527 00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:16,120 world and you know go and do a six Sigma thing and you know do 528 00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:19,760 all the run charts and this and that we don't have that 529 00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:24,720 bandwidth of the time on our side yeah that too when AI is 530 00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:29,520 picking up so consider looking into your supply chain how you 531 00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:32,480 can make process lean right. You should not. 532 00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:35,520 OK, I need to collect 20 signatures before I issue the 533 00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:41,720 purchase order. No, and I had been having very 534 00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:46,600 difficulty with my procurement heads in the past when I started 535 00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:49,000 my career. Why I have to collect 10 536 00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:50,920 signature before I issue the purchase order? 537 00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:54,320 Yeah. And then they're laughing, oh, I 538 00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:57,760 need to collect project engineer signature because he certifies 539 00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:01,520 what we are buying is correct. OK, got it. 540 00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:04,640 Fair enough. OK, so why procurement leader 541 00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:07,160 signing? Because he's checking the work 542 00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:10,680 of package engineer and then OK, understood. 543 00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:12,120 So why project manager is signing? 544 00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:14,720 Because project manager knows when the requirement is 545 00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:16,080 required, right? Right. 546 00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:19,200 They have like radical kind of things. 547 00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:22,880 So I think we need to make our processes leaner, right? 548 00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:28,200 So think about opportunity to make your government agile, how 549 00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:32,160 you can make your decisions. We don't have time, although we 550 00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:34,200 have all the digital tools available. 551 00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:37,440 You can send for signatures in in like this. 552 00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:41,240 Imagine a project manager sitting with the construction 553 00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:44,680 manager and fighting for some material outside some incident 554 00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:47,800 and you are waiting for his signature to get the purchase 555 00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:51,200 order release for a critical item which is already on the 556 00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:55,800 critical path. And then and people start 557 00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:58,840 blaming coming. Oh why you have not called me? 558 00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:01,120 Because there was no signal you were busy. 559 00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:05,520 Things happen, you know we all are human and then you delayed 560 00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:09,720 whole week and then supply came back, oh, my price is expired, I 561 00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:13,800 cannot access or address your requirement right now. 562 00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:17,960 Early quarterly time is now bigger because my production got 563 00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:20,480 busy, they got another order from the client, some other 564 00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:22,720 client. So you need to think about those 565 00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:24,480 things how you can improve, right. 566 00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:29,880 And those are we should be looking and I know people spent 567 00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:33,560 very less time on those things. Yeah, nobody talks about these 568 00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:35,320 things. So they say, OK, if this project 569 00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:39,800 happened, client is OK now, OK, let's talk about new project. 570 00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:44,000 We need to go back, look into the lessons learned and where we 571 00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:46,200 did good things. We should record that as well. 572 00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:48,840 We should not only be talking about negative things happened 573 00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:52,400 on the project, but obviously we need to see how we could have 574 00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:54,800 done better. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, 575 00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:58,000 absolutely. Well, our time is up already. 576 00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:00,080 I mean, this was absolutely fascinating. 577 00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:04,000 The time has gone by so fast. I think our audience as well as 578 00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:07,280 my students, I can't wait for them to listen to this episode. 579 00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:11,080 It's gonna add tremendous value in terms of just understanding 580 00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:15,360 procurement alongside the strategic advantage it will be 581 00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:18,000 for a project manager to really understand the concept. 582 00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:22,000 So AJ, for those that want to continue the conversation with 583 00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:24,199 you, where can they find you online? 584 00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:27,360 Also, we've mentioned your book multiple times, so if you want 585 00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:29,560 to go ahead and plug that, we can do that too. 586 00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:34,480 Yeah, So they can connect me over to LinkedIn and my LinkedIn 587 00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:37,920 is his name is very specific. You do not find another guy. 588 00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:40,960 I don't know why, but in the whole world, my surname is 589 00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:45,639 little unique and it's you can say just find my profile there, 590 00:34:45,639 --> 00:34:49,360 send me a message request and I would be happy to connect. 591 00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:53,080 Otherwise my e-mail ID is also mentioned on the LinkedIn 592 00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:55,320 banner. They can send me an e-mail if 593 00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:58,680 they have specific question. I try to help them the best way 594 00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:02,520 possible and it's it's a mutual learning always. 595 00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:05,200 That is my, my, my kind of things. 596 00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:08,080 I feel we learn from each other, right? 597 00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:12,080 It's not like there are students and I know, OK, I've been 20 598 00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:15,640 years in the I might some I might something hear something 599 00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:20,160 new, different, right. And then I really will be happy 600 00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:24,440 to hear such kind of questions, which are tough and be in a 601 00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:27,000 challenge mode. OK, now solve this. 602 00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:31,400 Tell me how would you operate? I might say right or wrong way, 603 00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:35,760 but at least that will help me as well as I'm a I'm a student 604 00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:38,480 for my life. So that is that's my feeling. 605 00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:42,560 Well, thank you for being open to continuing the conversation 606 00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:45,160 with our audience. I encourage everyone to reach 607 00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:47,600 out to you. Also pick up the book if you're 608 00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:52,560 able to, project procurement and if folks want to continue the 609 00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:55,040 conversation. I will leave the relevant links 610 00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:59,000 to everything that AJ described as ways to contact him. 611 00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:02,320 And you guys can follow me on LinkedIn as well. 612 00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:06,120 I'll leave that link as well as subscribe to the podcast. 613 00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:09,840 Give us your comments and feedback on this episode and 614 00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:12,360 listen to some of the other episodes as well. 615 00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:15,920 So that will do it for AJ and I on this installment of the 616 00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:18,480 Everyday PM Podcast. We hope you enjoyed our 617 00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:21,920 conversation and until next time, take care.