1 00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:13,200 Welcome to the Everyday PM Podcast, the podcast where we 2 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:15,960 discuss project management principles for your everyday 3 00:00:15,960 --> 00:00:18,560 life. My name is Anne Campia and I am 4 00:00:18,760 --> 00:00:22,360 a veteran project manager, having worked in all kinds of 5 00:00:22,360 --> 00:00:26,240 industries from tech and now working as the VP of Operations 6 00:00:26,240 --> 00:00:28,560 for marketing agency called Truesense. 7 00:00:28,920 --> 00:00:31,160 I am so excited to welcome our guest. 8 00:00:31,160 --> 00:00:34,000 And for those of you who have been following the podcast, you 9 00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:37,040 may be familiar with him. And for those of you who have 10 00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:39,960 not, we will take a moment to briefly introduce Greg. 11 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:43,840 But I am excited to welcome back to the podcast, Greg 12 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:48,760 Christensen, who is now, I think I was just telling him before we 13 00:00:48,760 --> 00:00:53,360 started this episode, the CMMS radio guru. 14 00:00:53,360 --> 00:00:59,160 He is the podcast host. He is all things CMMS and he has 15 00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:02,280 come on our podcast a few times to talk about project 16 00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:04,680 management. He has built incredible things 17 00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:08,160 in his previous professional journey as it relates to project 18 00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:11,960 management and he has a genuine interest and love for our 19 00:01:11,960 --> 00:01:14,800 profession as well. So with all that being said, 20 00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:17,960 Greg, I don't want to do your introduction a disservice. 21 00:01:17,960 --> 00:01:21,440 So, Greg, welcome to the podcast and if you can, take a brief 22 00:01:21,440 --> 00:01:23,480 moment to introduce yourself to our audience. 23 00:01:24,320 --> 00:01:27,240 Well, first of all, and thanks for having me back on. 24 00:01:27,240 --> 00:01:30,160 And it's always fun connecting with you. 25 00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:33,360 And I think for me the intro is great. 26 00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:38,000 And my interest in like podcasting kind of connects to 27 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:40,680 part of your journey because I remember when you dropped your 28 00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:46,280 first, your one year announcement and I thought, wow, 29 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:47,920 this is cool. And then we started talking 30 00:01:47,920 --> 00:01:51,760 about project management. So for me, background, CMMS 31 00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:54,000 Radio is a podcast about computerized maintenance 32 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:57,480 management software. I tend to focus on the two Ms. 33 00:01:57,480 --> 00:01:59,640 in the middle, which is maintenance management, the 34 00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:02,560 maintenance mindset. So it's about software, but it's 35 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:05,800 really more about people and process 1st and then the 36 00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:09,039 technology on top of it. I'll bring in random things 37 00:02:09,039 --> 00:02:11,240 every now and then. You'll see some content coming 38 00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:14,880 pretty soon that doesn't necessarily relate to the space, 39 00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:17,120 but it actually does. And I'm always trying to do that 40 00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:20,280 kind of cool stuff and I just enjoy connecting with people. 41 00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:21,480 That's part of the reason I do it. 42 00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:24,520 And I was in the maintenance management and computerized 43 00:02:24,520 --> 00:02:27,800 maintenance management software space for many years. 44 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:30,400 And, you know, I had a try with some project management 45 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:33,120 technology that we still have. It's just sitting on a shelf, 46 00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:35,280 taking a nap, waiting for it to come back. 47 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:37,440 So I'm just happy to be here with you. 48 00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:39,840 You always make me smile and happy, and we can just talk 49 00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:42,920 about whatever. So I'm here, ready to jump into 50 00:02:42,920 --> 00:02:44,360 it. Here we go. 51 00:02:44,360 --> 00:02:47,720 I think our topic is pretty fluid today, but before we get 52 00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:52,440 into CMMS, how it relates to project management, I think I 53 00:02:52,440 --> 00:02:55,240 want to take a second to, and I didn't prompt you about this, 54 00:02:55,240 --> 00:02:57,760 Greg, but I want to give you your flowers where they're due 55 00:02:57,920 --> 00:03:03,240 because Greg joined the podcast. Gosh, it's got to have been over 56 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:06,040 a year ago, maybe even longer than that. 57 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:11,120 As a fan of the podcast, he's come on and we've done coffee PM 58 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:14,520 coffee chats together. I think that's even one of my 59 00:03:14,520 --> 00:03:19,040 more popular episodes was having you on just asking basic project 60 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:23,280 management questions. But in time, not only have Greg 61 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:26,160 and I established a relationship, but I have now 62 00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:29,840 kind of taken the backseat to watch Greg's journey into the 63 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:34,480 podcasting space in particular. He has really cemented himself 64 00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:39,800 as a leader in the CMMS space since he has been on the 65 00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:42,760 podcast. He has his own podcast, which I 66 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:45,400 encourage everybody to check out. 67 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:49,800 He is a fantastic host and I remember the first time we met 68 00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:53,680 and spoke, I told him you have a voice or radio, which he totally 69 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:55,440 does. He would argue that he doesn't 70 00:03:55,440 --> 00:03:58,720 have the face for TV, but I also think he also has the face for 71 00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:02,800 video and he's been at multiple conferences. 72 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:06,400 He spoke as a key speaker on panels. 73 00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:11,760 He has now what, over 2000 followers on LinkedIn just in 74 00:04:11,760 --> 00:04:15,760 the CMMS group itself. Not to mention, if you connect 75 00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:18,880 with Greg, which I all encourage you to, I encourage all of you 76 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:23,160 to connect with him on LinkedIn. He is so supportive and active 77 00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:27,120 in that space. And I guarantee you that as soon 78 00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:30,280 as you make that connection with Greg, he's going to be there 79 00:04:30,280 --> 00:04:33,480 seeing your posts, championing your posts, responding to your 80 00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:36,880 posts. And I, I just, I couldn't have 81 00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:43,560 been as fortunate and lucky to have had somebody find my 82 00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:48,480 podcast, create the connection, and now watch how amazing of a 83 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:52,640 journey Greg has made on his own to, to establish himself in his 84 00:04:52,640 --> 00:04:55,680 own community. And I for all of that, I just 85 00:04:55,720 --> 00:04:58,560 give you all the flowers, Greg, because it's, it's just been a 86 00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:01,280 fun ride to, to kind of take the backseat and watch all that 87 00:05:01,280 --> 00:05:04,840 happen for you. Well, that's, that's a lot to 88 00:05:04,840 --> 00:05:07,240 take. And people that really know me 89 00:05:07,280 --> 00:05:10,520 and, and whether they see me on the podcast or meet me in 90 00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:15,080 person, I always have kind of a visceral reaction to those kinds 91 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:19,200 of things because I want to stay really grounded and it's 92 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:21,480 touching and I really appreciate that. 93 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:25,080 And, you know, I, I, I tell people, hey, I'm an ogre. 94 00:05:25,080 --> 00:05:26,440 And they're like, why, why would you say that? 95 00:05:26,440 --> 00:05:30,000 I'm like, no, what I mean is I'm banging around doing my thing. 96 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:33,360 And then when we get into stuff like this, I'm, I'm, I'm just 97 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:36,760 like a marshmallow inside. And I, I, I dig that stuff. 98 00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:41,160 And it's cool having real human connection that most of us might 99 00:05:41,160 --> 00:05:44,000 have thought is just not even possible through this medium, 100 00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:46,960 let alone, you know, other ways we meet people. 101 00:05:46,960 --> 00:05:49,960 So it's awesome. I appreciate those kind words 102 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:53,200 and it's a lot to take. It's, it's very humbling. 103 00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:56,360 So thank you for that, Anne. Of course, of course, of course. 104 00:05:56,360 --> 00:06:01,680 So let's get into CMMS. As Greg has included as part of 105 00:06:01,680 --> 00:06:05,040 his introduction, he focuses more on the double M right in 106 00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:07,280 the middle. But why don't you break down 107 00:06:07,280 --> 00:06:10,840 CMSMS for us a little bit further, just for those that 108 00:06:10,840 --> 00:06:13,680 aren't too familiar with it. And then we'll kind of get into 109 00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:17,640 how the projects work in that space and try to make that 110 00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:21,240 connection between your particular area of interest and 111 00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:23,520 and the our our podcast audience as well. 112 00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:27,880 Yeah. So just a general, real basic 113 00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:30,560 kind of high level introduction to CMMS. 114 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:32,960 It's computerized maintenance management software. 115 00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:35,920 You could also say computerized maintenance management system. 116 00:06:36,520 --> 00:06:42,400 And think of it in terms of work order management plus asset 117 00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:45,080 management. And what we mean is everybody 118 00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:48,280 for the most part, with any kind of facilities of any kind, 119 00:06:48,280 --> 00:06:52,160 almost any size, has work requests and things that come 120 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:54,880 in, whether they're complaints or issues that have to be taken 121 00:06:54,880 --> 00:06:56,560 care of. And we start with writing all 122 00:06:56,560 --> 00:06:59,040 that stuff down. Well, these are solutions that 123 00:06:59,040 --> 00:07:02,040 allow you to digitize it and start your digital 124 00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:05,040 transformation. So as you do more and more of 125 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:08,080 that, you need better tracking. You need to see who, what, why 126 00:07:08,080 --> 00:07:09,720 and where, what's really been going on. 127 00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:13,960 Now I mentioned asset management and managing equipment. 128 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:15,880 We're talking specifically about equipment. 129 00:07:15,880 --> 00:07:21,120 So work orders tend to be connected to things that people 130 00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:25,640 are going to go attend to. So those are the two main areas 131 00:07:25,640 --> 00:07:28,960 of what a maintenance management solution of any kind is going to 132 00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:31,880 manage for a facility. It could be a school, it could 133 00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:35,760 be a hospital, it could be an entire campus of office 134 00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:39,760 buildings, it could be oil and gas, it could be rigs out in the 135 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:41,480 ocean, all these different things. 136 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:44,400 So it starts to become a really, really big world. 137 00:07:44,440 --> 00:07:48,080 And what really centralizes it is maintenance management. 138 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:51,080 Because at the end of the day, the reason we want this 139 00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:53,880 digitization and we have to track all these things as it 140 00:07:53,880 --> 00:07:57,160 relates to maintenance is maintenance really, in my 141 00:07:57,160 --> 00:07:58,920 opinion, makes the world go around. 142 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:02,280 So think of this and I'll kind of relate it. 143 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:04,680 I don't know how soon the episode will come out, but right 144 00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:07,280 now we have a heat wave. It's not just in Southern 145 00:08:07,280 --> 00:08:11,240 California, it's across the US. Much of the US is experiencing 146 00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:14,080 this. So when people say, well, how 147 00:08:14,080 --> 00:08:16,480 about maintenance management and work orders and things that 148 00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:19,120 people take care of, I would say, well, let's boil it down. 149 00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:20,800 Let's forget about business for a second. 150 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:23,680 Let's just go home. We got air conditioning units, 151 00:08:24,200 --> 00:08:26,280 right? We need those during the heat. 152 00:08:26,760 --> 00:08:30,480 And if those things fail, then we've got serious problems. 153 00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:34,640 So the systems that track that kind of work even at that level, 154 00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:38,120 and then we go back into the business environment, right? 155 00:08:38,120 --> 00:08:41,520 Your factories, your plants, your schools, like I said, 156 00:08:41,520 --> 00:08:43,200 nonprofits, hospitals, all these things. 157 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:46,160 We got to track all this stuff, not only to get stuff done, but 158 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:47,680 to see where we're having problems. 159 00:08:47,680 --> 00:08:50,320 And then that starts to take us on another part of the journey 160 00:08:50,680 --> 00:08:54,400 where we're thinking of maintenance and reliability best 161 00:08:54,400 --> 00:08:57,680 practices, how we can create more availability of the assets 162 00:08:57,680 --> 00:08:59,960 that produce the things that we sell, and all that kind of 163 00:08:59,960 --> 00:09:01,640 stuff. So it really starts to spin out. 164 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:05,720 That's why I like the subject, because it's specific yet broad. 165 00:09:06,680 --> 00:09:09,600 Yeah, yeah, exactly. And, and I think in the in your 166 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:12,680 telling or your overview, you kind of get elements of both, 167 00:09:12,680 --> 00:09:14,800 right. You can really hone in on a 168 00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:18,560 particular part or you can kind of look at it and and the 169 00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:23,720 application of it sounds like is pretty broad in terms of where 170 00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:28,360 you've seen it implemented. And I think that is also as you 171 00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:31,440 had mentioned, a great correlation to project 172 00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:35,600 management in general as well as we've all learned all types of 173 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:40,760 industries require the role and as as things go with the 174 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:44,320 software we use, sometimes it is a little bit more niche. 175 00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:47,480 Whereas in the way you've explained, CMMS sounds like 176 00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:50,800 really any organization could pick this up if they needed to. 177 00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:56,560 I think they could. I'm, I'm, I want people to be a 178 00:09:56,560 --> 00:09:59,880 little bit cautious about that. And this is what's also nice 179 00:09:59,880 --> 00:10:03,600 about me no longer being a part owner of a CMMS solution 180 00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:06,200 provider. So now I can be agnostic and 181 00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:10,720 really say, look, let's take that extra step back and say, do 182 00:10:10,720 --> 00:10:14,520 you really need this or not? Because the idea that everybody 183 00:10:14,520 --> 00:10:18,720 needs it, it's a, it's a great idea, but there are situations 184 00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:21,800 where they might not. Now that can change over a 185 00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:24,040 period of time, but the way it really relates to project 186 00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:29,800 management, at least in my view, is if we agree just to place 187 00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:32,320 hold it for the for our session today. 188 00:10:32,680 --> 00:10:34,160 I don't know why I call it a session but. 189 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:38,200 It's therapy, Greg. Yeah, Yeah, it's, it's 190 00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:40,400 maintenance therapy, right, And project therapy. 191 00:10:40,400 --> 00:10:43,840 So everything is a project in one way or another. 192 00:10:44,520 --> 00:10:46,600 And I think that's a bit of a stretch. 193 00:10:46,600 --> 00:10:49,440 But if we look at maintenance and maintenance management, 194 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:51,400 these are like little projects, a work order. 195 00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:53,560 We got to do this, Something pops up for preventive 196 00:10:53,560 --> 00:10:56,360 maintenance, something pops up. We're going to rip and replace a 197 00:10:56,360 --> 00:10:58,640 piece of equipment, whatever the case may be, right? 198 00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:03,200 Well, in project management we have projects that are based on 199 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:06,440 deliverables and timelines and deadlines and those have 200 00:11:06,440 --> 00:11:08,520 similarities. But what happens in project 201 00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:13,560 management is it touches this area constantly, not just with 202 00:11:13,560 --> 00:11:17,120 getting the software, setting up the deployment plan and then a 203 00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:19,280 project manager. You and I did an episode on that 204 00:11:19,280 --> 00:11:21,840 where you're walking down the hall one day and somebody says, 205 00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:24,120 hey, good luck with that. CMMS roll out and you're like, 206 00:11:24,840 --> 00:11:28,840 OK, what's that? And this is how it goes. 207 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:31,360 But within facilities management, maintenance 208 00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:34,920 management, all these things, there are constant projects. 209 00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:38,600 And the most critical component of those projects is that they 210 00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:42,480 get done on time, efficiently, on budget, all those things. 211 00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:45,240 So that lands right in your wheelhouse regardless of what it 212 00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:47,080 is. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. 213 00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:49,440 And I know that we wanted to talk a little bit about what a 214 00:11:49,680 --> 00:11:53,640 typical CMMS project looks like. And you're kind of already going 215 00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:56,400 into that as as we're we're chatting here. 216 00:11:56,400 --> 00:12:02,480 And I think I love that you have now positioned yourself in a 217 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:08,680 much more less biased space, so to speak, so that you can really 218 00:12:08,680 --> 00:12:13,520 give your honest opinion around whether or not CMMS is 219 00:12:13,560 --> 00:12:16,920 applicable for a particular community or organization or 220 00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:17,720 people. Right. 221 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:21,560 I, I, I, I'd like to say the same thing goes for project 222 00:12:21,560 --> 00:12:27,040 management. I have lived through experiences 223 00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:32,120 where some organizations have said let's grab project 224 00:12:32,120 --> 00:12:34,560 management, They can come in and fix everything. 225 00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:37,640 I don't know if this is applicable in your space as 226 00:12:37,640 --> 00:12:40,040 well, but you know, there's always this kind of 227 00:12:40,560 --> 00:12:44,800 misconception around what a project management team can come 228 00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:49,040 in and do. I believe obviously so much in 229 00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:53,360 our profession that I believe we can do anything as it relates to 230 00:12:53,360 --> 00:12:55,680 helping an organization be more efficient. 231 00:12:56,120 --> 00:13:00,160 But to your earlier point, I also would say that even within 232 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:03,880 project management, sometimes some organizations may not need 233 00:13:03,880 --> 00:13:06,840 it or they think they're looking for project management, whereas 234 00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:08,400 they're looking for something else. 235 00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:11,640 And so I'm glad that you have now found yourself in a place 236 00:13:11,640 --> 00:13:15,520 where you can be very, very transparent about having those 237 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:18,920 types of conversations. Do you think that having now 238 00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:23,280 removed yourself from feeling like you're selling a product, 239 00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:26,520 constantly selling a product, has that helped you kind of in 240 00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:30,040 terms of not just doing your podcast and having those 241 00:13:30,040 --> 00:13:34,080 conversations, but just seeing the entire space of CMMSA little 242 00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:39,360 bit differently? 100%, no two ways about it, 243 00:13:39,640 --> 00:13:43,000 whether it be the space itself or what's really happening 244 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:44,880 within. So one of the reasons I always 245 00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:47,640 tell people I'm I'm about the maintenance management or the 246 00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:51,920 maintenance mindset in the middle is that's where it really 247 00:13:51,920 --> 00:13:54,640 unfolds. Human beings and the kind of 248 00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:59,240 conversations I can have are not that I didn't have great ones 249 00:13:59,240 --> 00:14:03,200 previously, but now they're just, they're wide open and a 250 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:06,000 lot of people are starting to understand that I'm not here to 251 00:14:06,680 --> 00:14:08,440 hurt anybody. It's the exact opposite. 252 00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:11,320 I want to actually help users navigate their journey. 253 00:14:11,680 --> 00:14:15,600 I want to help people avoid doing unnecessary rip and 254 00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:18,200 replace from one piece of software to another if they 255 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:20,560 really don't need to. I want to help the right 256 00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:22,880 consultants get working with the right people. 257 00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:25,640 So I want to work with people that are super real. 258 00:14:25,640 --> 00:14:27,840 And I can have those conversations now. 259 00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:31,160 And I can't even tell you what we talked about off Mike. 260 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:34,200 It's it's awesome, it's brilliant. 261 00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:37,160 And you know, those are those are kind of buzzy words that 262 00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:40,720 everybody uses. But when you really connect with 263 00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:44,920 an industry and they know that you, you don't necessarily have 264 00:14:44,920 --> 00:14:48,080 an outcome goal, like you're not selling something, but you're 265 00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:50,560 just trying to help, it makes all the difference. 266 00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:54,080 So it's true that that change made a difference. 267 00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:56,640 Doesn't mean later that I won't have something to sell. 268 00:14:56,640 --> 00:15:01,080 But I also happen to be somehow, I don't know if it's hard wired, 269 00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:05,400 but somehow wired to deliver on value rather than just selling 270 00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:08,840 stuff. That I think helps with the now 271 00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:13,520 authenticity and what you're doing in terms of having those 272 00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:17,720 realistic conversations. I think sometimes people will 273 00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:19,920 immediately jump to the solution. 274 00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:23,800 And to your point, maybe this is not the solution for you. 275 00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:29,280 And I think in terms of project types, right, CMMS projects, 276 00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:33,640 what are some of those questions that you are asking people who 277 00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:38,040 are interested in the the platform or the software? 278 00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:41,400 What are some of those questions you're asking them to really 279 00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:44,480 tease out if this is going to be a value add to their 280 00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:48,440 organization? So what we typically want to do 281 00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:51,960 if now, now there's some things that need to be set up first. 282 00:15:51,960 --> 00:15:55,320 So for example, how did we get in touch with this person in the 283 00:15:55,320 --> 00:15:57,960 1st place? So if someone goes and they 284 00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:00,600 think they need a solution and they type something into some 285 00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:02,840 form, they're just going to get bombed left and right. 286 00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:06,200 But let's forget all that. And now I'm talking to someone, 287 00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:09,000 I want to ask them questions about their operations, their 288 00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:12,880 operational style. So for example, when it comes to 289 00:16:12,880 --> 00:16:17,200 day-to-day management of your work orders and the labor 290 00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:20,080 associated with the work that needs to get done, or the pieces 291 00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:23,200 of equipment that you're trying to protect, track and manage or 292 00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:28,240 flip those around any way you want, where are you currently 293 00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:31,000 seeing gaps with the problem with that kind of a question? 294 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:33,840 Is it self diagnosing? So we want to be really careful 295 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:37,960 with self diagnosing questions because now if we're supposed to 296 00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:41,320 influence someone's decision to make their situation better, 297 00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:46,480 it's much more important that we find out not just where the pain 298 00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:48,400 is. Everybody's selling to pain and 299 00:16:48,400 --> 00:16:49,440 all that. Forget about that. 300 00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:52,120 You got to find the value and connect it to the business. 301 00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:55,960 So better questions when it comes to discovery and figuring 302 00:16:55,960 --> 00:16:59,240 out whether somebody really needs a CMMS might be something 303 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:02,920 to the effect of have you missed work in the last, missed work 304 00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:06,440 that needed to be done, critical work that caused any kind of 305 00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:09,560 failure that hurt the bottom line, took operations down. 306 00:17:10,319 --> 00:17:12,680 For example, if we want to go simplistic with facilities 307 00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:14,880 management, have you had any air conditioning failures in the 308 00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:16,920 last three months that could have been prevented by doing 309 00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:21,839 better PMS and changing filters as opposed to a full day or two 310 00:17:21,839 --> 00:17:24,040 of people having to go home because it's dangerously hot 311 00:17:24,040 --> 00:17:26,000 outside? So what did that really cost 312 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:28,680 you? Now again, I'm generalizing, 313 00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:31,600 right? But those are the kinds of 314 00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:36,280 things we want to get into. So at a base level, if someone 315 00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:39,920 does not have a maintenance management system or software, 316 00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:43,960 and maybe they're just using Excel or spreadsheets, we want 317 00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:47,320 to find out if that's actually causing a negative impact to the 318 00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:50,160 business. Because if it's not, then they 319 00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:52,760 might not need a system. They really might not. 320 00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:55,080 And a lot of people out there might hate me saying that, but 321 00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:57,480 if you don't need one, you don't need one, don't get one. 322 00:17:57,640 --> 00:17:59,880 But you eventually might if you're going to continue to grow 323 00:17:59,880 --> 00:18:02,200 and you're going to get busier and busier, and asset 324 00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:04,760 criticality plays a role in what you do. 325 00:18:05,680 --> 00:18:10,680 So as you can tell, each time we get one of these questions and 326 00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:14,560 we try to carve it up, it's really hard to resolve it in 327 00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:17,560 just like quick phraseology. Is there such a thing as 328 00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:19,400 phraseology? There might be now I'm. 329 00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:23,040 Coining it now, Yeah. So with regards to how we 330 00:18:23,040 --> 00:18:26,360 describe and interpret things, when you get away from the 331 00:18:26,360 --> 00:18:31,040 selling aspect and you look more from a helping perspective and 332 00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:34,760 you stay extremely curious, I want to understand you and what 333 00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:36,560 you're doing. So say the operation you're at 334 00:18:36,560 --> 00:18:40,200 now and I wanted to understand how you guys move through the 335 00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:42,080 world from a facilities perspective. 336 00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:46,720 The more we talk about that, I start finding places to look and 337 00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:50,280 see if you have a real problem that has a root cause that 338 00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:53,720 impacts the business negatively. Gotcha. 339 00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:55,760 None of that happens. You don't need anything to solve 340 00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:56,800 it. If there's not a problem, 341 00:18:56,800 --> 00:19:00,000 there's nothing to solve. You almost, it sounds like, you 342 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:03,120 know, when you go to a doctor's office and they ask you a few 343 00:19:03,120 --> 00:19:07,360 initial questions in the intake of, of, of you seeing that the 344 00:19:07,360 --> 00:19:11,560 physician is, and then sometimes they just pass you off to APA or 345 00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:13,480 something, right? Because they're like, oh, this 346 00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:15,640 person doesn't really need to see the main MD. 347 00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:19,680 But as things go, it sounds like you do a lot of that inquiry 348 00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:22,800 ahead of time. So that way you are prescribing 349 00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:25,920 what feels right for that particular customer. 350 00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:29,280 Because as I said, you know, I, I wear two hats now, project 351 00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:31,600 management as well as operations. 352 00:19:31,920 --> 00:19:36,840 And even then the line can be very great between the two of 353 00:19:36,840 --> 00:19:41,960 them because you've got a awesome team of people who want 354 00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:45,280 to execute well and deliver projects on time, within budget 355 00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:48,880 to scope, whatever, whatever the parameters may be. 356 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:53,960 But then you've got on the operation side this need to make 357 00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:59,680 sure that in our delivery we are able to track things from what 358 00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:02,440 you're calling a work order, but what would be our initial 359 00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:07,240 project request or initiation all the way to execution of what 360 00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:10,920 that particular project can be. And within that you want to 361 00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:15,680 understand what are those gaps opportunities to make things a 362 00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:20,080 little bit more efficient. And when you talk about CMMS, 363 00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:24,480 the correlations are exactly there in terms of. 364 00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:28,360 What the project types look like, I know you said it doesn't 365 00:20:28,360 --> 00:20:33,760 really apply to all industries or all people, but it can come 366 00:20:33,760 --> 00:20:37,720 in as a value add solution. So I want to kind of get one 367 00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:45,320 more level deeper than that to truly understand how you 368 00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:51,640 facilitate the project through and what are some of the KPIs 369 00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:56,880 you are then trying to quantify to tell your client or customer, 370 00:20:57,320 --> 00:21:02,360 hey, you implementing this CMMS into your organization is 371 00:21:02,360 --> 00:21:05,360 actually a value add. So I know that was a very long 372 00:21:05,360 --> 00:21:08,760 winded way to say, Greg, break it down for me. 373 00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:11,680 And then how are you? How are you then showing the 374 00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:14,720 value add at the end of the project? 375 00:21:16,360 --> 00:21:19,160 OK. So one of the things that is 376 00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:22,480 often missing from a question like that is we need a little 377 00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:24,440 bit more specificity on industry. 378 00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:27,360 So we're going to generalize a little bit just so that I can 379 00:21:27,360 --> 00:21:32,080 kind of describe it at a super high level, not meant to solve 380 00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:33,240 everybody's. Problem of course. 381 00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:36,800 Yes, all thinking. So we're going to have a 382 00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:42,000 facility setting that is an office park. 383 00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:47,320 It's three buildings, you decide how big they are. 384 00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:50,120 It doesn't matter. I mean, it does, it actually 385 00:21:50,120 --> 00:21:51,760 does. But I'm saying for our story 386 00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:56,760 today and when we go to set up our CMMS and we're going to make 387 00:21:56,760 --> 00:21:59,320 some assumptions. They've already done their own 388 00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:01,760 say for example, root cause analysis, they've done a lot of 389 00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:05,160 assessment and they know that they need a CMMS. 390 00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:08,680 And we've, we've, we've got one, we've provided one, we've got 391 00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:10,600 the decision, it's signed, it's time to deploy. 392 00:22:11,120 --> 00:22:14,000 So when it comes to that deployment, the very first step 393 00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:19,440 is to iron out and decide exactly how that solution is 394 00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:22,760 going to match what physically is there at this site. 395 00:22:23,360 --> 00:22:28,720 So most typically, in my view, this would be a site that has 396 00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:32,200 three buildings, each building has floors, there's grounds, 397 00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:35,560 parking lot, etcetera. We want to set all that up. 398 00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:39,160 Then we want to start putting in things like where are the pieces 399 00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:41,800 of equipment, the ones that we're really going to focus on 400 00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:44,560 initially because if somebody goes into this going every piece 401 00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:47,120 of equipment before we use the system, that's not going to 402 00:22:47,120 --> 00:22:48,720 work. Start with your big rocks 403 00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:52,360 criticality, right? For the milestones during this 404 00:22:52,360 --> 00:22:57,360 project, what we want to do as the CMMS provider is we want to, 405 00:22:57,480 --> 00:23:01,760 we want to gate, so to speak with steps or process update 406 00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:05,120 intervals. What has been done so far? 407 00:23:05,120 --> 00:23:07,560 So you signed up? We deployed what the site is, 408 00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:09,840 the buildings, the areas by floor level or section. 409 00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:11,720 We started putting in some pieces of equipment, 410 00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:14,320 categorizing equipment, building out service types. 411 00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:18,440 So that might be the first set of things that we set up. 412 00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:21,120 And we've got some top level users that are getting trained 413 00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:26,280 milestone #1 we've done our initial steps milestone #2 414 00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:29,040 putting it in the hands of actual users, including the 415 00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:32,960 technical or the the maintenance technicians and people on site, 416 00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:34,880 chief building engineer, etcetera, that's going to 417 00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:37,360 utilize the platform, make sure they've done that. 418 00:23:37,360 --> 00:23:39,120 And both groups have been trained. 419 00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:45,560 That's milestone #2 generalizing milestone #3 is going to tend to 420 00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:49,000 be, can we look back and see that we've actually not just set 421 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:52,080 all this up, but we've gotten appropriate user adoption to 422 00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:54,240 develop data. And this should all happen 423 00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:57,080 depending on your organization size and the complexity of the 424 00:23:57,080 --> 00:24:00,680 environment, the nature of their savviness using solutions, 425 00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:05,520 mobile, all that kind of thing. That's probably anywhere from 426 00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:09,880 I'd say six weeks to six months depending on organization size. 427 00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:13,880 But you're not done yet. What happens most of the time 428 00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:18,640 during this phase, this 1-2 and three kind of check in spots. 429 00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:23,560 That's where it falls apart because too many organizations 430 00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:26,680 select a solution and the other organizations that sell them the 431 00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:30,360 solution. It it becomes about finding and 432 00:24:30,360 --> 00:24:33,280 selecting the software and never deploying it. 433 00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:38,560 Also, other things to watch out for during that period of time 434 00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:43,720 is to turn over on either side. So if we lose champions, if I'm 435 00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:46,520 a CMMS provider and I lose some champions and people that are 436 00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:49,320 really all about this project and they move on, go to 437 00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:52,360 different job, win the lottery, whatever, God forbid, what else 438 00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:55,320 that's going to be disruptive and it could cause a failure in 439 00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:58,680 the project success, the, the likelihood of project success. 440 00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:01,560 So that's just generally speaking. 441 00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:04,400 And I could, you can tell I'm, I'm trying to hold myself back 442 00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:10,520 because I can, I can really, really go through and explain 443 00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:12,880 all kinds of different projects and it might be overwhelming 444 00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:14,840 because I'm, I'm starting to go really fast. 445 00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:20,720 So basically that's that's the thing we want to look at is did 446 00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:23,920 we select it now? Have we started to deploy it? 447 00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:26,720 Have we started to use it? And then we want as soon as 448 00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:30,360 possible to see what is our data looking like so we can reassess 449 00:25:30,360 --> 00:25:33,920 in case we've missed something. And then we're going to do that 450 00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:36,160 again. And again. 451 00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:40,120 It's never going to stop. This is CMMS utilization 452 00:25:40,360 --> 00:25:43,440 selection and utilization is an ongoing thing. 453 00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:46,320 Once you've selected the utilization and the check in and 454 00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:48,920 managing those KPIs is a constant. 455 00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:54,520 Yeah, Yeah, I imagine so. And I, like many have gone 456 00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:57,640 through these types of software implementations where there's 457 00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:01,240 all these expectations around what's going to be the value 458 00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:05,120 add, how soon can we see the ROI in this investment? 459 00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:10,640 You had mentioned already that CMMS is not for every industry, 460 00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:15,560 but for some, right. And so I think where I, I want 461 00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:20,600 to go with this question is around, I've seen software 462 00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:25,400 implementations where it just sounds like this is going to be 463 00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:28,800 the one-size-fits-all, fixes everything solution. 464 00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:33,360 Organizations really try to promote it only to find they're 465 00:26:33,360 --> 00:26:37,800 only using about 30% of the actual features of the software. 466 00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:41,640 And then they asked the question about, well, we made this 467 00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:46,120 investment in CMMS, we thought we were going to get this, how 468 00:26:46,120 --> 00:26:48,960 come we're only getting, you know, maybe 10% of what we 469 00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:52,960 expected, the efficiencies that we were going to gain from this 470 00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:54,800 platform. So what do you say to those 471 00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:58,280 people who kind of find themselves in the space of they 472 00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:02,720 made this investment, they had some expectations around it, 473 00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:05,680 albeit maybe unrealistic expectations. 474 00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:07,600 What? What are you doing now in this 475 00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:11,200 part of the conversation? OK. 476 00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:17,720 So if I'm the provider of the solution and that's what's being 477 00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:21,320 brought to me, I want as quickly as possible for us to get some 478 00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:24,440 people together and go back and take a look and find the clues 479 00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:28,600 as to where this where this in a sense went off the rails. 480 00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:32,760 So remember I mentioned if we lose our champion, if we lose 481 00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:36,000 people that are bought in to the utilization of the platform, 482 00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:40,160 that will change everything. It's almost like starting over, 483 00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:43,480 very difficult for the customers and it's very difficult for the 484 00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:48,600 CMMS providers to reconcile that because people don't believe 485 00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:51,880 that it could be on them for not using and proceeding with their 486 00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:54,320 deployment. So that's where I would look 487 00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:58,480 1st. And once we assess that, then we 488 00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:01,520 pick up the ball, so to speak and keep running it forward. 489 00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:07,240 We want to retrain and plug those those gaps as it relates 490 00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:11,320 to their utilization of the platform because it doesn't take 491 00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:17,800 much in the way of disengagement to now see a solution like this 492 00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:23,560 sit on a shelf, collect dust and cost immense amounts of money. 493 00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:26,440 I've heard, I've heard things in the millions that are just 494 00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:29,160 shocking. It's crazy. 495 00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:31,080 It's crazy. And I I don't want to call out 496 00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:33,080 any solutions because it's on both sides. 497 00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:37,680 You know of course, like. Right now, I, I, I kind of want 498 00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:41,360 to tell everybody users, if you have a CMMS platform, you need 499 00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:43,600 to reach out to your vendor and say, hey, teach me how to use 500 00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:44,760 this. Where are we going wrong? 501 00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:46,240 What have we missed? Vendors? 502 00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:48,320 If you don't know how to do that for your client, maybe you've 503 00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:50,600 had your own turnover, just improve it. 504 00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:53,680 It's totally possible. Get somebody that can help your 505 00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:55,080 people be better for your clients. 506 00:28:55,400 --> 00:29:00,640 Everybody's in this to win. So buyers of owners of people 507 00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:04,160 that have solutions and they're not using them, take a step back 508 00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:06,120 and figure it out. It's not just because it's 509 00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:08,840 clunky and junky. That's often times not the case. 510 00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:12,200 It's because people don't know why they're supposed to be using 511 00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:15,240 this. So, and now you can see this. 512 00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:19,640 This is where it all comes down to culture, the way our teams 513 00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:22,240 are assembled and how we all buy in. 514 00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:25,760 Just like when you run a project, if you have a project 515 00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:29,560 that half the people are even ten, 1215% of the people are 516 00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:34,440 just not into, that's very high risk because everybody else is 517 00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:37,840 going to have to do the lifting and they're going to be the 518 00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:40,520 bottleneck that you cannot even exploit. 519 00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:44,640 So this happens in all areas of all organizations. 520 00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:47,680 So that's why I say I can spin out and now we're talking about 521 00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:51,800 all kinds of countries. Me too, because no, don't 522 00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:54,960 apologize because you know, in the same way this conversation 523 00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:58,760 has already kind of veered way different than the outline. 524 00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:01,520 But it's because it's interesting in that you could 525 00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:05,800 take everything you just said, remove CMMS. 526 00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:10,280 And it's still highly applicable to people who have lived in this 527 00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:13,880 operation space, who have lived in change management, who have 528 00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:17,000 lived in project management, who have lived in software 529 00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:21,440 implementation, who currently live in PM or CMMS worlds. 530 00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:25,320 Just take some of the specificity out of what Greg 531 00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:27,920 just said. And it's highly applicable and 532 00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:31,320 even relatable to, I'm sure, the experiences that many of us have 533 00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:36,640 had around having to deal with not just software, but the 534 00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:40,240 elements of bringing in people who have to be involved in 535 00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:44,600 championing the change. And how important and critical 536 00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:48,280 that is to making sure that you end up getting the value that 537 00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:54,280 you're supposed to get back from implementing a system like CMMS. 538 00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:58,040 So I think for what it's worth, Greg, I know you went into the 539 00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:01,000 details, but I needed to tease that out because I want to make 540 00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:04,680 sure people understand what Greg is saying is very relatable. 541 00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:06,400 I'm sure a lot of you are nodding your heads as you're 542 00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:09,520 listening to what he's saying. And I appreciate you keeping it 543 00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:12,840 very general for the fact that we can correlate it very easily 544 00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:17,080 to other lived experiences outside of the CMMS world. 545 00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:23,240 So I, I was curious in terms of now kind of just trying to tie 546 00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:30,240 in PM with CMMS in a much more obvious way, how APM might 547 00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:35,640 compliment CMMS, whether it's, you know, the implementation of 548 00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:39,920 a CMMS or, or something else. And how do you think that the 549 00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:45,280 role might clash in any way with CMMSI think? 550 00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:49,160 I will preface that by saying I wanted to ask you a question 551 00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:55,160 around the evolving technology as well as how maybe AI is 552 00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:56,880 involved in this type of conversation. 553 00:31:56,880 --> 00:31:59,240 But to your point, Greg, we will spin off and talk about 554 00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:01,640 something very, very different if I ask that question. 555 00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:05,600 So let's keep it here and ground it around PMCMMS. 556 00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:07,320 How do they correlate? How do they not? 557 00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:10,560 OK. So the the correlation primarily 558 00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:13,640 revolves around the idea that we're trying to accomplish 559 00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:16,680 something by a deadline. There's something at stake. 560 00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:18,120 We have something that has to be done. 561 00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:22,080 So in the world of CMMS and within the platform and within 562 00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:25,440 maintenance management within any organization, it is quite 563 00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:29,280 probable that a project manager will be involved in something 564 00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:32,760 like, let's say a very large piece of equipment that's going 565 00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:36,720 to go through a change out within, within overall 566 00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:40,640 operations of the facility or of production or anything like 567 00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:42,720 that. So a project manager knows 568 00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:46,600 exactly what to do about how to set that up and they're going to 569 00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:50,280 possibly leverage the CMMS, the maintenance management software 570 00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:54,000 to see and track some of the things about that, whether they 571 00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:56,760 have separate project management software or not. 572 00:32:57,040 --> 00:33:00,640 But they're going to be involved because they have the skills, 573 00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:05,080 the insights, the training, they might even be APMP and they know 574 00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:09,200 how to set up and plan and execute a project. 575 00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:14,040 So that's where there's a lot of similarities between what people 576 00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:17,080 that use CMMS are doing and then people within the org that 577 00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:19,600 probably need to interact with it and get something done 578 00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:22,560 really, really well the way they. 579 00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:28,520 Before you get to the way that they might clash, if I'm a 580 00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:34,040 project manager and I work in a production facility, maintenance 581 00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:38,480 facility and there's a piece of equipment or machinery that is 582 00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:40,400 very, very critical to our business. 583 00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:44,200 You know, it's this piece we've invested in, but we know it's 584 00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:48,600 been about 10 years since we've updated that piece of machinery. 585 00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:53,480 So as APM, is it that I'm flagging? 586 00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:56,280 Hey everyone. I think we're almost at the 10 587 00:33:56,280 --> 00:33:59,960 year marker. As I know from the knowledge of 588 00:33:59,960 --> 00:34:02,640 being in the space, we might want to start having 589 00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:07,000 conversations around replacement or updating of the machinery. 590 00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:11,880 What's the downtime or potential impact, negative impacts to our 591 00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:14,480 business. I'm looking at the schedule to 592 00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:20,679 see if we decide to upgrade the machinery or replace it, what is 593 00:34:20,679 --> 00:34:23,280 that going to impact from our production standpoint? 594 00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:26,199 Are those some of the things that I'm thinking about and 595 00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:30,960 trying to ask questions around as as it pertains to how we 596 00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:33,280 would be working together in this space? 597 00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:38,159 I would say yes, but I would flip it completely backwards. 598 00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:41,320 Oh, OK. So, so this would be more your 599 00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:45,080 operations hat saying potential problem here. 600 00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:49,520 I was looking at this in let's say our CMMS platform in the 601 00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:52,239 KPIs that you've already set it up to track for you, the ones 602 00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:54,480 that tell you something to go and look further. 603 00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:59,200 And now you've reached out to the project manager to say, I'm 604 00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:03,200 seeing a problem over here. And I'm not sure when we're 605 00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:05,480 going to do something about it. But I want to start to build my 606 00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:08,280 plan as to what would make sense for us as an entire team. 607 00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:11,720 Can you give me an idea of what the resource loading is on your 608 00:35:11,720 --> 00:35:13,600 side from a project management perspective? 609 00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:17,360 Maybe it's somebody in the PMO where they can tell you, hey, 610 00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:20,800 this is this is where we're looking and great. 611 00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:24,240 You know, I was just looking for a potential gap where we might 612 00:35:24,240 --> 00:35:27,080 find some of those resources because I have a feeling in the 613 00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:31,400 next 12 to 18 months we might replace this machine and then 614 00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:34,520 you would add to it. Before we even do that, we're 615 00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:38,400 going to do root cause analysis, assess the criticality, figure 616 00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:41,600 out if that machine really in fact needs to be replaced versus 617 00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:44,080 improved. Because sometimes there's 618 00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:47,880 defects that can be eliminated on an existing machine as 619 00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:50,560 opposed to replacing it. So I would say, I would say 620 00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:52,720 backwards. The project manager doesn't look 621 00:35:52,720 --> 00:35:57,960 for projects as opposed to in this scenario, they need a 622 00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:02,240 project manager to run the project, even if the project 623 00:36:02,240 --> 00:36:06,360 manager is only going to be an overseer and do that load 624 00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:10,120 balancing on the resources, the timing, the parts, the supply 625 00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:12,360 chain, the concept of full kidding. 626 00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:19,000 You would be amazed. You would be amazed how similar 627 00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:23,400 everything we're talking about in maintenance management, 628 00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:27,560 maintenance and reliability best practices, and all those match 629 00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:31,440 up almost identical to the project execution maturity 630 00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:34,640 model. And that concept of full kidding 631 00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:39,360 is everywhere. People that use it don't know 632 00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:42,640 that it's happening right next door in the department next to 633 00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:45,360 them. And it is one of the number one 634 00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:48,280 things on something like that that would set you up for 635 00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:50,680 success in a project like that. So that makes sense. 636 00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:53,200 I know I spun. Out a little bit, but hey, you 637 00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:56,320 know, I had mentioned there's this whole Gray area now that I 638 00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:58,880 find myself in operations and project management. 639 00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:02,160 So I always appreciate Greg for setting me straight in terms of 640 00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:04,280 my thinking. But I, I got it. 641 00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:08,320 I just had it in reverse, right? So now let's, let's, let's now 642 00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:13,960 get to your point around how PM, how the role of PM may clash in 643 00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:17,120 any way with CMMS. If you if you see any kind of 644 00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:19,560 negative outcomes coming from that? 645 00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:25,120 So if there if there's going to be any kind of a clash between 646 00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:28,280 let's say ACMMS project and the people that are really truly 647 00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:30,760 leveraging the CMMS, although it's for the benefit of the 648 00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:35,200 organization with project managers, a project manager or 649 00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:41,360 even the entire PMO, that is typically going to boil down to 650 00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:44,360 a combination of things. One, it could be the culture and 651 00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:45,920 misalignment between the culture. 652 00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:49,760 So they don't understand and buy in on each other's why. 653 00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:53,840 I'm always going to fall back on that because that's a guaranteed 654 00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:57,400 area where you can fix almost anything, almost anything. 655 00:37:57,400 --> 00:38:01,120 Because when people, when the why is there a lot of the other 656 00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:03,200 stuff doesn't matter. They don't even care how hard it 657 00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:04,600 is. They're just all about it 658 00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:06,760 straight up. I'm just, I'm just calling it 659 00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:10,360 like it is there. The other thing is when they're 660 00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:15,360 not communicating, they may think that they're in opposition 661 00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:17,840 when they're not. And and although that goes back 662 00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:21,680 to the first thing I mentioned, but if, if it doesn't make 663 00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:24,880 sense, say for example, fiscally for one department versus 664 00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:28,600 another, that's very difficult to resolve. 665 00:38:28,720 --> 00:38:32,120 And then when we also you remember I was talking about the 666 00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:35,640 load balancing on resources available, labor, skill set, 667 00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:38,320 etcetera, etcetera. Well, that's another thing that 668 00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:43,280 can create a hidden kind of fire breathing dragon when it comes 669 00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:48,280 to if our resources are completely clogged and we know 670 00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:52,760 we've got priorities and something new just came in that 671 00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:55,840 can cause a lot of stress, unnecessary stress, but real 672 00:38:55,840 --> 00:38:58,000 stress, right? So maybe it's actually 673 00:38:58,000 --> 00:38:59,880 necessary. So that's where some of the 674 00:38:59,880 --> 00:39:05,560 conflict can come come in. I do think project management 675 00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:10,320 and maintenance management as far as I look back over the last 676 00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:13,200 20 plus years, they play pretty well together. 677 00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:17,480 They really they they in my experience now my experience is 678 00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:21,480 only my own with, you know, whatever number of companies and 679 00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:25,000 I do hear other things out throughout the industry about 680 00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:27,800 these kind of conflicts. So I don't think we're gonna 681 00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:30,600 have like a a pure magic bullet take away. 682 00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:32,320 You also mentioned something earlier about this 683 00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:35,120 one-size-fits-all that kind of stuff. 684 00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:40,680 Just it's not out there. I bet you a little like Earth 685 00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:43,360 came in was I? I was saying that, but I think 686 00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:46,360 it's definitely something that we both have to deal with in our 687 00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:50,080 respective spaces quite a bit and make sure that we are having 688 00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:53,880 those very open and transparent conversations with people who 689 00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:56,720 are interested in it. I mean, the same thing goes when 690 00:39:57,080 --> 00:40:01,480 I meet new people who are telling me, hey, I'm really 691 00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:02,960 interested in project management. 692 00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:07,160 You know, I can you tell me about how I can get into the 693 00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:09,560 industry? And before I even start a 694 00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:13,240 conversation with them outside of saying hello and 695 00:40:13,240 --> 00:40:17,360 introductions, is let me ask you a few questions just to make 696 00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:20,120 sure this is actually where you want to be. 697 00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:23,040 You did that with me. There is. 698 00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:26,200 A very. Big misconception around that, 699 00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:29,360 right? You know, people have this idea, 700 00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:33,760 which I'm sure they do with CMMS too, which the one-size-fits-all 701 00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:36,600 comment came from. So we have to make that. 702 00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:38,800 We have to. We're fighting the same battle, 703 00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:40,840 I think, just on in different places. 704 00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:45,640 Yeah, I. I, I tend to agree and look for, 705 00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:49,160 for everybody's benefit when I say that there's not A1 size 706 00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:52,080 fits all. There's no such thing as a magic 707 00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:57,360 silver bullet that that's meant to help you because that's the 708 00:40:57,360 --> 00:41:00,960 reality. And that's not supposed to be a 709 00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:02,760 bad thing. It's just with a bit more 710 00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:05,880 specificity. And you know, when people are 711 00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:11,120 providing a CMMS to somebody, understand what those folks are 712 00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:13,240 really trying to do where their pain is and don't try to 713 00:41:13,240 --> 00:41:15,440 dictate. And then on the other side, if 714 00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:19,440 you're looking for solutions, be mindful and careful when there 715 00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:21,440 is something that's cookie cutter and it's not a perfect 716 00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:22,800 fit. But at the same time, if you're 717 00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:25,520 85% plus, I would say most of the time it's good to go. 718 00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:29,920 So this is where this Gray area just keeps coming up constantly. 719 00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:31,880 Yeah, so. Greg. 720 00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:37,680 To end our conversation, I'm very curious about now having 721 00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:42,880 kind of really put your position out in terms of being a leader 722 00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:45,480 at the forefront of some of the innovations that are happening 723 00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:48,480 in CMMS. What is that thing? 724 00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:51,560 What's that next evolution of CMMS? 725 00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:56,880 I'm not going to make any assumptions there, so I'll just 726 00:41:56,960 --> 00:41:59,240 put the question mark at the end of that statement. 727 00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:02,040 Sure, sure. No, that, that's, that's a good 728 00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:05,880 one because there's a lot of ambiguity out there. 729 00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:08,120 There's a lot of new shiny stuff out there. 730 00:42:08,120 --> 00:42:10,920 And I talk about shiny stuff, but I tell people don't, don't 731 00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:13,880 take the bait because we still got to wait and see. 732 00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:19,120 So I just did a panel discussion at a conference, it's called the 733 00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:21,920 Reliable Plant Conference. It took place out in Chicago a 734 00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:23,560 couple weeks ago. And I don't, I don't think you 735 00:42:23,560 --> 00:42:26,360 and I have talked about it after I told you ahead of time when I 736 00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:30,000 was going. However, yes, we did a panel on 737 00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:33,000 the evolution of CMMS. Oh, perfect. 738 00:42:33,240 --> 00:42:33,880 Timing. For my. 739 00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:38,520 Question then yes, yes and. What came out of that panel, and 740 00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:40,880 we're going to release the footage on the panel in a couple 741 00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:44,400 of weeks, but what really came out of that was we started 742 00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:49,400 focusing in on the people and the the failure to evolve with 743 00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:51,640 the technology. And that's not a failure on the 744 00:42:51,640 --> 00:42:54,120 part of the people necessarily. So don't take that the wrong 745 00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:56,840 way. What I think is really coming is 746 00:42:56,840 --> 00:42:58,960 we're going to have more improvements there where people 747 00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:03,040 start to embrace a little bit more of the technology. 748 00:43:03,320 --> 00:43:06,760 And they're not necessarily going to be so advanced with the 749 00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:09,680 next new shiny thing. But what's coming as far as next 750 00:43:09,720 --> 00:43:14,200 is further understanding of AI, artificial intelligence, which 751 00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:19,760 right now make no mistake, is very surface level and not 752 00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:23,160 necessarily what you may think it is. 753 00:43:23,160 --> 00:43:26,360 And I can, I can say that because I know that's true. 754 00:43:26,360 --> 00:43:29,240 And I'm not beholden to anybody. I'm beholden to telling the 755 00:43:29,240 --> 00:43:31,680 truth. So that's not to tear anybody 756 00:43:31,680 --> 00:43:34,440 down. But AI is going to continue to 757 00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:39,800 learn and improve. And some of the technology 758 00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:44,840 companies out there are probably going to, you know, fold up and 759 00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:46,840 become better and better. But that's. 760 00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:51,480 So from an AI perspective, we also have related to that the 761 00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:55,680 Internet of Things or industrial Internet of Things where we're 762 00:43:55,680 --> 00:43:58,320 looking at sensor monitoring and those types of things. 763 00:43:58,320 --> 00:44:01,400 I think that's going to improve. But what I, what I mean by 764 00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:07,040 improving is over the next 12 to 24 months, I think people are 765 00:44:07,040 --> 00:44:09,680 going to know more of what is really working. 766 00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:11,680 And some of those other things are going to go away. 767 00:44:12,240 --> 00:44:16,840 And it's like, I'm excited because I want to get closer to 768 00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:19,000 the truth and find what's really working. 769 00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:22,440 And I don't want to call out what's not in a hard way. 770 00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:25,600 I just want to get people looking at what actually works. 771 00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:28,280 And I've got some cool episodes coming up about that in the next 772 00:44:28,440 --> 00:44:31,080 like two to three months. Oh, that's super exciting. 773 00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:33,080 That's super exciting. I hope that was helpful. 774 00:44:33,080 --> 00:44:35,520 I know. I'm dancing around it, but no. 775 00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:37,400 And the same thing goes for. PM, right? 776 00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:41,200 We're still trying to figure out this whole impact of AI in terms 777 00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:44,480 of our profession. And what I would like to say, 778 00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:50,000 innovations are going to be made in terms of how we, how we work 779 00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:55,240 with systems like CMMS, how we even just execute projects, how 780 00:44:55,240 --> 00:44:58,680 we do our job. So I, I'm glad that you touched 781 00:44:58,720 --> 00:45:02,120 on AI without me having to just ask you about it because I had a 782 00:45:02,120 --> 00:45:04,320 feeling there was going to be some influence that was 783 00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:06,720 happening in the trends in the CMMS space. 784 00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:10,720 So appreciate that too, Greg. And we look forward to seeing 785 00:45:10,720 --> 00:45:12,920 the snippets or the clips or whatever it is you're going to 786 00:45:12,920 --> 00:45:16,040 release of that panel as well. Yeah, that'll be that'll be 787 00:45:16,040 --> 00:45:16,960 coming. Pretty soon. 788 00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:18,320 So I'm I'm looking forward to it. 789 00:45:18,320 --> 00:45:20,440 Two different panels, two different events. 790 00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:22,120 Nice. Both really. 791 00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:26,360 I mean, the guests on the panel, they they it's not me. 792 00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:28,160 It's got nothing to do with me. It's people. 793 00:45:28,440 --> 00:45:31,800 It's true, it's true. You'll see, you'll see. 794 00:45:32,280 --> 00:45:35,400 Well, I am. Like I said, very appreciative 795 00:45:35,520 --> 00:45:39,920 of all that you have done to support the everyday PM podcast. 796 00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:44,760 We are, you know, this community is as supportive of you as you 797 00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:48,120 have been a bus. And I'm excited to see what's 798 00:45:48,120 --> 00:45:51,800 next for you and your space. And I'm always here to support 799 00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:55,320 you and your journey. And I look forward to more 800 00:45:55,320 --> 00:45:59,120 conversations like this, Greg, because again, I can just talk 801 00:45:59,120 --> 00:46:03,440 to you for forever, but I know we've got time to get back to 802 00:46:03,440 --> 00:46:05,400 what we do on a regular day-to-day. 803 00:46:05,440 --> 00:46:08,040 So Greg, for those of you that want to continue the 804 00:46:08,040 --> 00:46:11,920 conversation with you, where can they find you online, I would 805 00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:14,280 say. First of all, on LinkedIn, find 806 00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:17,360 the CMMS radio company page and connect there. 807 00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:20,200 That's all smooshed together. Don't put a space between CMMS 808 00:46:20,200 --> 00:46:22,040 and radio, smoosh it all together. 809 00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:25,960 So company page there and then you can find me on LinkedIn as 810 00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:28,040 well. Connect and you know, hit me up, 811 00:46:28,040 --> 00:46:30,040 we'll have a conversation. No obligation. 812 00:46:30,040 --> 00:46:33,120 I'm not selling nothing. And I'm just here to help the 813 00:46:33,120 --> 00:46:35,680 maintenance management world, CMMS and all that. 814 00:46:35,680 --> 00:46:39,480 Just be better. And I want to learn stuff too. 815 00:46:39,480 --> 00:46:41,160 I don't know everything, I never will. 816 00:46:41,160 --> 00:46:43,520 I just want to know more. Well, thank you. 817 00:46:43,520 --> 00:46:46,600 For all that you do, Greg and I feel like I've learned a lot in 818 00:46:46,600 --> 00:46:50,200 this short conversation we've had as so has the audience 819 00:46:50,200 --> 00:46:52,320 that's listening in on this episode. 820 00:46:52,320 --> 00:46:55,760 So best of luck and all that you do. 821 00:46:56,520 --> 00:46:59,680 I will look forward to seeing more come out from any panels or 822 00:46:59,680 --> 00:47:02,600 any other speaking engagements. You have everyone go support 823 00:47:02,600 --> 00:47:05,520 Greg and everything that he's doing over there in the CMMS 824 00:47:05,520 --> 00:47:08,000 world. You can also find me on LinkedIn 825 00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:11,080 as well. There's a everyday PM group on 826 00:47:11,080 --> 00:47:14,160 LinkedIn. Not as active as as Greg's, but 827 00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:17,120 definitely exists there for you to create a little community 828 00:47:17,120 --> 00:47:19,920 with other project managers. You can connect with me on 829 00:47:19,920 --> 00:47:22,640 LinkedIn as well. So that will do it for Greg and 830 00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:25,720 I in this installment of the Everyday PM podcast. 831 00:47:25,720 --> 00:47:28,000 I appreciate all of you for tuning in. 832 00:47:28,320 --> 00:47:32,120 Feel free to like subscribe, leave a great comment on any of 833 00:47:32,120 --> 00:47:35,200 the episodes of the Everyday PM on any of the podcasting 834 00:47:35,200 --> 00:47:37,360 platforms that you may be listening in on. 835 00:47:37,840 --> 00:47:42,480 So for Greg and I, everyone take care and we'll see you at the 836 00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:44,960 next episode. Thank you, Anne.