1 00:00:09,960 --> 00:00:12,120 Welcome to the Everyday PM Podcast. 2 00:00:12,120 --> 00:00:15,400 The podcast will rediscuss project management principles 3 00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:18,480 for your everyday life. My name is Anne Campia and I'm a 4 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:22,080 certified Project slash Program Manager with over a decade of 5 00:00:22,080 --> 00:00:24,840 experience working for healthcare, retail, consumer 6 00:00:24,840 --> 00:00:27,980 goods, tech marketing. You name it, I think I've been 7 00:00:27,980 --> 00:00:32,500 all across the industries as a PM today we are speaking with 8 00:00:32,500 --> 00:00:36,300 Laura Chattington, founder of Talking Shop Co and Laura 9 00:00:36,300 --> 00:00:39,660 carries such an impressive resume and has been on the 10 00:00:39,660 --> 00:00:43,300 podcast previously for a few episodes now Laura, so welcome 11 00:00:43,300 --> 00:00:47,300 back and we are here today to talk about having the confidence 12 00:00:47,300 --> 00:00:50,700 to communicate effectively with senior stakeholders. 13 00:00:50,700 --> 00:00:53,170 So Laura? Welcome back to the podcast. 14 00:00:53,170 --> 00:00:56,450 I'm so excited to host you again, especially in this month 15 00:00:56,450 --> 00:01:00,170 where we are celebrating Women, Women's History, International 16 00:01:00,170 --> 00:01:02,210 Women. This is such a great honor for 17 00:01:02,210 --> 00:01:04,450 you to come back and grace this with your presence. 18 00:01:04,450 --> 00:01:07,570 So for those who have not met you yet or listened to a 19 00:01:07,570 --> 00:01:10,570 previous episode that you've been on, please take a brief 20 00:01:10,570 --> 00:01:12,650 moment to introduce yourself to our audience. 21 00:01:13,730 --> 00:01:17,890 Thank you very much and thank you for having me again and as 22 00:01:17,890 --> 00:01:20,930 you say on a on a great month for Women International Women's 23 00:01:20,930 --> 00:01:24,050 Day. My name is Laura Chattington and 24 00:01:24,050 --> 00:01:27,170 I'm the lead trainer at talking shop and Activate My Career 25 00:01:27,170 --> 00:01:31,690 live.com and we actually help professionals who feel like 26 00:01:31,690 --> 00:01:35,490 their careers are plateauing or not progressing fast enough. 27 00:01:35,960 --> 00:01:39,720 And we help them elevate themselves in the workplace, 28 00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:42,720 project managers, program managers, so that they can 29 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:47,360 really fast track their career. And actually my background is 30 00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:51,680 tech and project management too. So I have experience in the 31 00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:56,280 challenges that your listeners are constantly facing on a day 32 00:01:56,280 --> 00:02:00,070 by day basis. And I love when you are able to 33 00:02:00,070 --> 00:02:02,630 come on here and kind of share those experiences with us, 34 00:02:02,630 --> 00:02:05,230 Laura, and as I get to know you as a person and as a 35 00:02:05,230 --> 00:02:09,229 professional, you have been able to influence from. 36 00:02:09,699 --> 00:02:13,860 You know your project teams to to the C-Suite level executives, 37 00:02:13,860 --> 00:02:16,140 you've done a lot of coaching in that area as well. 38 00:02:16,140 --> 00:02:19,580 So before we get into today's topic, I just want to really 39 00:02:19,580 --> 00:02:23,060 call out or shout out to you and all the great work you've been 40 00:02:23,060 --> 00:02:26,380 doing to try to help people progress their careers and 41 00:02:26,380 --> 00:02:28,860 really activate and advance their careers as you've been 42 00:02:28,860 --> 00:02:31,100 saying. And so can you talk a little bit 43 00:02:31,100 --> 00:02:34,140 about some of the maybe you have some events or anything going on 44 00:02:34,140 --> 00:02:36,220 that people can tap into if they're interested? 45 00:02:36,900 --> 00:02:41,100 Yes, for sure. And and actually the the, the, 46 00:02:41,260 --> 00:02:45,860 the the thing to do is is attend the master class that we run at 47 00:02:45,900 --> 00:02:50,500 Activate My Career live.com. There we will take you through 48 00:02:50,500 --> 00:02:53,740 the the concepts, the training, the tools, the systems that 49 00:02:53,740 --> 00:02:57,860 really enable you to elevate yourself and move into being 50 00:02:57,860 --> 00:03:02,700 that strategic professional that you need to be as you progress 51 00:03:02,700 --> 00:03:04,940 through your career. So that is just to go to the 52 00:03:04,940 --> 00:03:06,820 master class, that's the best way to find out. 53 00:03:07,260 --> 00:03:10,700 And have some experience the type of training that we do at 54 00:03:10,700 --> 00:03:14,660 www.activatemycareerlive.com. Well, there you go. 55 00:03:14,660 --> 00:03:16,620 I mean, learn from the best Laura's here. 56 00:03:16,620 --> 00:03:19,460 She's providing her her knowledge and her experiences, 57 00:03:19,460 --> 00:03:22,180 and today we're going to tap into just probably just a little 58 00:03:22,180 --> 00:03:23,780 piece of that. So we're not going to give away. 59 00:03:24,020 --> 00:03:26,100 I don't even know if this is covered in your master class or 60 00:03:26,100 --> 00:03:29,020 not, but we're not going to give away the secret sauce yet. 61 00:03:29,020 --> 00:03:31,700 But I think it is important to talk about when you're 62 00:03:31,700 --> 00:03:33,980 activating or trying to elevate your career. 63 00:03:34,440 --> 00:03:38,040 Communication is really a big piece of that and understanding 64 00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:42,000 how you communicate, whether it's as a project manager or if 65 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:44,600 you're a part of a project team, but understanding your 66 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:48,520 communication style as well. So I think communicating in 67 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:52,560 general can be challenging, communicating up can be 68 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:55,040 challenging. So Laura, why don't you kick us 69 00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:57,960 off with this topic and and kind of some of the guidance and tips 70 00:03:57,960 --> 00:04:00,160 that you you want to portray to our audience. 71 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:03,840 Absolutely. And I think communicating up. 72 00:04:04,300 --> 00:04:09,860 Is one of the kind of key skills that you need to have in in your 73 00:04:09,860 --> 00:04:14,420 toolbox when you're no matter you know what job you do and I 74 00:04:14,500 --> 00:04:16,019 and and if you're if it's okay with you. 75 00:04:16,019 --> 00:04:19,540 I'd just like to share a little bit of yes sort of my experience 76 00:04:19,540 --> 00:04:23,420 and and really why it is so important to be able to 77 00:04:23,420 --> 00:04:27,020 communicate upwards and be able to communicate to senior 78 00:04:27,020 --> 00:04:30,460 stakeholders and then we can talk about how to do that and 79 00:04:30,460 --> 00:04:32,940 also how to do that with with confidence. 80 00:04:33,020 --> 00:04:36,300 Absolutely. And and and so one of the 81 00:04:36,300 --> 00:04:39,340 stories that that I share is about sort of walking in, 82 00:04:39,620 --> 00:04:43,420 getting an e-mail from my boss, my my number, my first senior 83 00:04:43,420 --> 00:04:47,500 stakeholder, getting an e-mail from my boss and being asked to 84 00:04:47,500 --> 00:04:51,740 attend an unexpected meeting, 2:00 o'clock his office. 85 00:04:52,260 --> 00:04:55,300 And I sort of walk into that meeting and I'm sitting 86 00:04:55,300 --> 00:04:58,180 uncomfortably on that chair. You know, when you're you're 87 00:04:58,620 --> 00:05:03,150 you're trying to look relaxed. And I'm, I'm going to guess the 88 00:05:03,150 --> 00:05:05,990 the e-mail you got. Laura probably just said meeting 89 00:05:05,990 --> 00:05:08,710 with no contacts about what it's about or anything. 90 00:05:08,710 --> 00:05:10,030 Okay. Yeah, yeah. 91 00:05:11,030 --> 00:05:13,630 So nothing 2:00 o'clock my office. 92 00:05:13,630 --> 00:05:16,230 I walk in. Trying to look calm, but 93 00:05:16,230 --> 00:05:20,510 actually inside I'm feeling like this sort of like teenager, 94 00:05:20,990 --> 00:05:24,190 awkward, sitting there, not knowing what to say, where to 95 00:05:24,190 --> 00:05:26,390 look. And you know, and with 96 00:05:26,390 --> 00:05:30,070 experience, with experience, and you sort of feel your heart 97 00:05:30,070 --> 00:05:32,590 pumping, your hands are sort of sweating. 98 00:05:32,950 --> 00:05:35,150 My boss starts talking and he says to me. 99 00:05:37,330 --> 00:05:39,850 They're making redundancies. They're sorry, but they're going 100 00:05:39,850 --> 00:05:43,810 to have to let me and 1920 other people go. 101 00:05:43,850 --> 00:05:47,130 And he has decided he's very sorry, but he's decided to keep 102 00:05:47,130 --> 00:05:49,530 my colleague James, who was the other. 103 00:05:54,250 --> 00:05:57,450 He's decided to keep him because he had connections in in the 104 00:05:57,450 --> 00:06:00,810 industry. And have you ever had one of 105 00:06:00,810 --> 00:06:04,170 those moments when you sort of sat there and it kind of takes a 106 00:06:04,170 --> 00:06:08,390 few minutes for? What they said to sort of 107 00:06:08,590 --> 00:06:12,070 realize what they said. And yeah, and then you sort of 108 00:06:12,070 --> 00:06:15,310 realize that you're confused and then like what? 109 00:06:15,950 --> 00:06:21,710 And then it sort of sinks in and you start thinking, hold on a 110 00:06:21,710 --> 00:06:23,870 minute. I just don't understand. 111 00:06:25,470 --> 00:06:29,150 That sort of realization turns to frustration because you've 112 00:06:29,150 --> 00:06:32,260 worked. And worked and worked. 113 00:06:32,260 --> 00:06:35,340 And like this, this wasn't my plan, right? 114 00:06:35,420 --> 00:06:39,620 This wasn't my plan. And I wanted to progress my 115 00:06:39,620 --> 00:06:41,460 career. I wanted to have a successful 116 00:06:41,460 --> 00:06:46,180 career and I certainly wasn't expecting my boss to to make me 117 00:06:46,180 --> 00:06:48,340 redundant. I've been working crazy hours. 118 00:06:48,780 --> 00:06:51,460 I've been taking my work home, I've been working at the 119 00:06:51,460 --> 00:06:54,220 weekend, I've been sort of missing out on friends and 120 00:06:54,220 --> 00:06:59,290 family, and I just. Felt like I thought I'd be 121 00:06:59,290 --> 00:07:02,010 further ahead and I'm being made redundant. 122 00:07:02,010 --> 00:07:05,130 And I was sort of asking myself, you know, what am I missing? 123 00:07:05,250 --> 00:07:09,210 What am I missing here? Because I knew that I was a very 124 00:07:09,210 --> 00:07:12,730 competent manager. I knew that I was delivering on 125 00:07:12,930 --> 00:07:16,010 everything that I needed to do. And actually I don't know if 126 00:07:16,010 --> 00:07:21,130 it's the same over there, but in in in, in the UK, you you the 127 00:07:21,210 --> 00:07:24,730 the end of the year is sort of end of the year and so they make 128 00:07:24,730 --> 00:07:27,090 redundancies just before Christmas. 129 00:07:28,250 --> 00:07:30,770 Usually. Sure it's the same that, right. 130 00:07:30,810 --> 00:07:34,210 But it's the same same here and and and I sort of I was at my 131 00:07:34,210 --> 00:07:39,850 parents house and I was sitting at my parents house thinking why 132 00:07:39,850 --> 00:07:41,530 am I, why was I made? Why? 133 00:07:41,610 --> 00:07:43,810 Why I was running the the biggest project. 134 00:07:43,810 --> 00:07:45,490 I was managing the biggest project. 135 00:07:45,490 --> 00:07:49,450 I was confused why was I the one that got made done it. 136 00:07:49,450 --> 00:07:54,770 Why did the senior team want to keep James and and why not me? 137 00:07:55,280 --> 00:07:58,960 And I've sort of mulling this over because actually James kind 138 00:07:58,960 --> 00:08:01,000 of rocked up at 10:00 AM in the morning. 139 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:05,160 He would have a coffee, take a few phone calls, write a few 140 00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:07,480 emails. He'd sort of get up, walk around 141 00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:11,840 the office, chat with our boss, chat with the other senior team. 142 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:16,800 He'd leave the office at three and like, what? 143 00:08:17,350 --> 00:08:19,550 It just makes no sense. And you know there's people, 144 00:08:19,550 --> 00:08:20,590 right? You just don't. 145 00:08:20,790 --> 00:08:23,350 You don't. They seem to just get away with 146 00:08:23,350 --> 00:08:25,510 it, don't they? They seem to just get away with 147 00:08:25,510 --> 00:08:27,550 not putting, putting the time in. 148 00:08:28,430 --> 00:08:32,030 So I was sort of walking around my parents' garden upset, whilst 149 00:08:32,030 --> 00:08:35,590 everyone else is cheering and having a great Christmas and 150 00:08:35,590 --> 00:08:41,549 thinking, hold on a minute, what was it that I wasn't doing? 151 00:08:42,750 --> 00:08:46,830 And I was thinking about James's working day compared with mine. 152 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:51,040 And it suddenly dawned on me. And I remember I was looking at 153 00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:54,080 my mom's, my mom's rose, just this rose Bush. 154 00:08:54,080 --> 00:08:57,720 And I'm thinking, you know what? Actually, it's not. 155 00:08:57,720 --> 00:09:00,840 He's not being lazy. He's not being lazy. 156 00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:04,240 He is actually doing something that I wasn't doing. 157 00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:10,760 He was spending time with those senior stakeholders, interacting 158 00:09:10,760 --> 00:09:14,080 with those senior stakeholders so that he could be seen. 159 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:17,690 Right. And those senior stakeholders 160 00:09:17,690 --> 00:09:21,210 weren't seeing my hard work because they weren't seeing me 161 00:09:21,210 --> 00:09:23,610 at all. They were seeing James. 162 00:09:24,410 --> 00:09:27,890 And it kind of dawns on me at that moment that actually. 163 00:09:28,050 --> 00:09:30,930 So I sort of stood there in the garden that actually. 164 00:09:31,680 --> 00:09:35,280 Everything that I wanted in my career, all that hard work, all 165 00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:39,480 that, everything that I wanted to progress to and do, was not 166 00:09:39,480 --> 00:09:42,200 going to come from just hard work. 167 00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:45,360 It wasn't, you know, that wasn't everything I needed to do. 168 00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:49,600 And if I wanted to make all that hard work count, I needed to it. 169 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:52,760 It's as important for me to communicate up. 170 00:09:53,310 --> 00:09:56,270 Can communicate with those senior stakeholders because 171 00:09:56,270 --> 00:09:57,590 otherwise they're not going to notice me. 172 00:09:57,590 --> 00:09:59,590 They're not going to notice. Why would they? 173 00:09:59,790 --> 00:10:01,190 Why would they be paying attention? 174 00:10:01,190 --> 00:10:03,390 They're not. Yeah, agreed. 175 00:10:03,710 --> 00:10:07,630 And I hate to say it, but it's it's it's it's very true what 176 00:10:07,630 --> 00:10:10,470 Laura is saying. The story is it couldn't be more 177 00:10:10,470 --> 00:10:15,270 real, what you're saying. It it's it's just a fact of 178 00:10:15,270 --> 00:10:17,270 life, isn't it? It's not an opinion. 179 00:10:17,270 --> 00:10:20,030 It's just that that that everyone has their own stuff 180 00:10:20,030 --> 00:10:23,060 going on. And there there was me slogging 181 00:10:23,060 --> 00:10:27,660 away in my job and waiting for the world to come to me. 182 00:10:29,300 --> 00:10:34,100 On the other hand, James was actively going and communicating 183 00:10:34,100 --> 00:10:37,620 in whatever way he did, and he wasn't waiting around for people 184 00:10:37,620 --> 00:10:40,300 to notice his hard work. He wasn't waiting around for 185 00:10:40,300 --> 00:10:43,940 people to come to him. He was actively going to those 186 00:10:43,940 --> 00:10:47,340 senior stakeholders, building relationships, creating 187 00:10:47,380 --> 00:10:49,380 relationships. And he was doing that every 188 00:10:49,380 --> 00:10:52,660 single day. And and and really that's what 189 00:10:52,660 --> 00:10:55,180 we're talking about today. And I I just wanted to sort of 190 00:10:55,180 --> 00:11:02,020 start with the reason why you need to get get good at this, 191 00:11:02,020 --> 00:11:05,740 get good at it and get sort of I I know that we all have our sort 192 00:11:05,740 --> 00:11:11,020 of hang ups and nervousness and and everything, but but being 193 00:11:11,020 --> 00:11:14,020 good at communicating up and communicating senior 194 00:11:14,020 --> 00:11:17,460 stakeholders is key to progressing your career and 195 00:11:17,460 --> 00:11:19,340 that's why we're talking about it today, right. 196 00:11:19,770 --> 00:11:23,090 Absolutely, absolutely. And that story just resonated 197 00:11:23,090 --> 00:11:24,930 with me. I'm sure it resonates with a lot 198 00:11:24,930 --> 00:11:29,730 of our listeners and it is absolutely true what Laura is 199 00:11:29,730 --> 00:11:33,930 saying. This happens quite regularly and 200 00:11:33,930 --> 00:11:38,730 it's unfortunate, but at the same time to Laura's point, many 201 00:11:38,730 --> 00:11:43,970 times these senior stakeholders, they they don't have any time, 202 00:11:44,130 --> 00:11:46,850 you know to to really focus in on. 203 00:11:47,280 --> 00:11:50,120 Who is each individual on this team? 204 00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:54,600 And so in her story when she's talking about the differences 205 00:11:54,600 --> 00:11:58,520 between herself and the her counterpart and how he was more 206 00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:02,720 made, more visible than she was. I think that is kind of a 207 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:05,640 turning point for people when you realize make that 208 00:12:05,640 --> 00:12:10,080 realization for yourself in your own career about the need to 209 00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:14,760 advocate for yourself, the need to to Laura's point when and 210 00:12:14,760 --> 00:12:17,490 we're going to get into that. The need to communicate to 211 00:12:17,490 --> 00:12:20,690 senior stakeholders and how exactly to do that so that it's 212 00:12:20,690 --> 00:12:25,570 effective and make it meaningful as well for yourself as well As 213 00:12:25,570 --> 00:12:28,770 for those around you. It's not just a kind of a what 214 00:12:28,770 --> 00:12:30,690 do you what's that saying, dog and pony show. 215 00:12:30,970 --> 00:12:35,370 This is this is legitimately this is your professional career 216 00:12:35,730 --> 00:12:39,170 that you have to be able to advocate for yourself where you 217 00:12:39,170 --> 00:12:44,490 want to be and let those that are in a position to help uplift 218 00:12:44,490 --> 00:12:47,890 you and bring you there. See, you really, really see the 219 00:12:47,890 --> 00:12:51,690 value of you. So I love that story, Laura. 220 00:12:51,690 --> 00:12:54,650 I think it's a great way to set kind of the foundation for what 221 00:12:54,650 --> 00:12:57,170 we're going to dive into. So are we. 222 00:12:57,250 --> 00:12:59,130 Do you think we're at the point where we can, I can start 223 00:12:59,130 --> 00:13:01,570 bugging you about how what are the techniques? 224 00:13:01,650 --> 00:13:04,490 What is like the, what is the secret things that we need to be 225 00:13:04,490 --> 00:13:07,490 doing to be able to effectively communicate with these senior 226 00:13:07,490 --> 00:13:09,920 stakeholders? For sure, For sure. 227 00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:15,160 And I think just to touch on one thing you said about having to 228 00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:18,880 communicate and promote yourself, there are obviously 229 00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:23,280 hang ups people have about that, about it being cheesy and we're 230 00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:25,800 not gonna go into that today and maybe that's something we can go 231 00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:29,340 into on another. At another time, but I think 232 00:13:29,340 --> 00:13:33,020 it's important the point you make about the senior managers 233 00:13:33,140 --> 00:13:36,380 are extremely busy. In fact they're probably more 234 00:13:37,020 --> 00:13:40,260 they've got more responsibility more going on. 235 00:13:40,620 --> 00:13:44,340 And so it's it's not about waiting for them to pay 236 00:13:44,340 --> 00:13:48,900 attention to you and when you do it tactfully you can really get 237 00:13:48,900 --> 00:13:51,940 in front of them and use those opportunities to. 238 00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:57,040 Be visible progress your career build relationships and do lots 239 00:13:57,040 --> 00:14:00,880 of good things that it it's it's an intention of doing lots of 240 00:14:00,880 --> 00:14:03,400 good things for everyone in in that environment. 241 00:14:03,960 --> 00:14:08,600 So let let's let's talk about so how do you talk to senior 242 00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:11,800 stakeholders and then what are some of the tips that that I can 243 00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:15,320 share to on how to do that. And I think the first the first 244 00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:19,400 key thing to think about and I think we we've spoke about this 245 00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:22,120 before but it's about starting from. 246 00:14:22,730 --> 00:14:28,570 The senior manager's perspective and when, when we were in when, 247 00:14:28,610 --> 00:14:32,690 when when you're working on a project and you're in it 24/7 248 00:14:32,690 --> 00:14:35,930 and you know exactly what's going on, There's a tendency to 249 00:14:35,930 --> 00:14:41,730 walk into these meetings with senior stakeholders and go from 250 00:14:41,730 --> 00:14:44,010 your perspective. You know this is what's going 251 00:14:44,090 --> 00:14:48,210 on, This is what I need. Now The thing is, is that a the 252 00:14:48,210 --> 00:14:50,290 the senior stakeholders probably. 253 00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:55,440 You might be the 11th meeting of the day, you might be the 25th 254 00:14:55,440 --> 00:14:59,360 work stream, you might be the 108th e-mail. 255 00:14:59,800 --> 00:15:03,920 So actually going in with a with A-frame of reference that a 256 00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:09,160 they're super busy and BI need to be thinking about what is it 257 00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:14,440 that they're interested in about my project, what is important to 258 00:15:14,440 --> 00:15:16,520 them. Because actually when you think 259 00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:19,200 like that, when you think about whether it's senior stakeholders 260 00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:21,780 or or anyone else. When you're thinking about, I've 261 00:15:21,780 --> 00:15:24,100 got to meet them where they are first. 262 00:15:24,460 --> 00:15:26,940 What are their priorities? What are their pain points? 263 00:15:26,940 --> 00:15:28,900 What are they looking to achieve? 264 00:15:28,900 --> 00:15:32,220 What do they care about? And if I go in and start talking 265 00:15:32,220 --> 00:15:37,060 in those terms a, they're going to know exactly what you're 266 00:15:37,060 --> 00:15:39,300 talking about because you're going to give them the heads up. 267 00:15:39,300 --> 00:15:41,940 This is what I'm here for. This is what I need you to do. 268 00:15:42,180 --> 00:15:43,860 This is what I need you to decide. 269 00:15:44,220 --> 00:15:46,580 Here are the key points you need to know. 270 00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:49,880 And that means that you eventually get what you want out 271 00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:53,400 of the conversation. I've done it myself in the past 272 00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:55,960 1000 times I've walked in and gone right. 273 00:15:56,320 --> 00:15:58,280 We've got this. This is what's going on. 274 00:15:58,280 --> 00:16:01,480 This is. And they're kind of like hold on 275 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:03,400 a minute, you know what do you need me. 276 00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:05,800 What what do you need me to decide. 277 00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:07,760 You know what do you need me to do? 278 00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:11,120 And and and their their point of view is going to be different 279 00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:14,400 from yours because you see the world from your. 280 00:16:14,810 --> 00:16:16,730 Frame of reference. And they see it from that they 281 00:16:16,730 --> 00:16:21,090 will have other priorities, they will have other experiences and 282 00:16:21,090 --> 00:16:22,290 they will have different questions. 283 00:16:22,290 --> 00:16:28,170 So I think the first key is to go in and think through what is 284 00:16:28,170 --> 00:16:31,970 it that they need to know to make the decisions that I want 285 00:16:31,970 --> 00:16:35,450 them to make? And if I want to get them to 286 00:16:35,570 --> 00:16:38,970 listen and pay attention, what are the things, What are the 287 00:16:38,970 --> 00:16:42,090 buttons I need to press that they're going to pay attention 288 00:16:42,090 --> 00:16:42,530 to? Absolutely. 289 00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:47,960 Yeah, I think that's kind of like the first place before you 290 00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:51,680 even walk in the room or into the call or into the online 291 00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:54,760 interaction is, is starting there. 292 00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:58,520 And I think if you've got that clear in your mind and actually 293 00:16:58,520 --> 00:17:01,880 it's the same if you're going into an interview, it's the same 294 00:17:01,880 --> 00:17:03,920 if you're in a presentation, it's the same if you're 295 00:17:03,920 --> 00:17:06,240 presenting to anybody. If you think. 296 00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:10,560 What is it that that that they care about? 297 00:17:10,560 --> 00:17:14,089 You're going to get much more. Interaction from them and 298 00:17:14,089 --> 00:17:16,170 they're going to be listening to what you've got to say. 299 00:17:16,410 --> 00:17:17,810 So that's. Yeah. 300 00:17:17,810 --> 00:17:21,410 I love that analogy you just made about think about it as if 301 00:17:21,410 --> 00:17:23,490 you were going into an interview. 302 00:17:23,890 --> 00:17:27,930 I think that is such a great correlation to make with any of 303 00:17:27,930 --> 00:17:31,330 these types of meetings and that in an interview you are 304 00:17:31,330 --> 00:17:34,650 preparing, at least I would. I would think you're preparing 305 00:17:34,650 --> 00:17:38,050 well in advance right. You're not just you're not just 306 00:17:38,050 --> 00:17:41,620 going through your. Professional journey, but you're 307 00:17:41,620 --> 00:17:44,660 also trying to anticipate what you might be asked. 308 00:17:45,100 --> 00:17:48,900 And so there's a lot of the aspects that you do or those 309 00:17:48,900 --> 00:17:51,860 techniques that you would do to prep for an interview that you 310 00:17:51,860 --> 00:17:56,860 would, as Laura's saying that you would similarly use to prep 311 00:17:56,860 --> 00:17:59,140 for a meeting with senior stakeholders. 312 00:17:59,140 --> 00:18:02,260 And I have to tell you as you're as you're talking through this 313 00:18:02,260 --> 00:18:04,610 tip. I was just reminiscing in my 314 00:18:04,610 --> 00:18:08,170 head about all the various times in my career, early on in my 315 00:18:08,170 --> 00:18:11,810 career and even today where I've failed to do that. 316 00:18:12,490 --> 00:18:16,650 And it's just makes such a huge difference between the memories 317 00:18:16,650 --> 00:18:19,410 that sink in with me because there are memories that are 318 00:18:19,410 --> 00:18:22,730 there because I learned from this experience and not having 319 00:18:22,730 --> 00:18:27,170 done the prep work to be ready for that versus the experiences 320 00:18:27,170 --> 00:18:30,610 that I've had, you know, I think after I've realized that 321 00:18:30,610 --> 00:18:34,120 preparation is key. The experiences I've had talking 322 00:18:34,120 --> 00:18:37,840 with senior stakeholders and how effective that was, so 323 00:18:38,120 --> 00:18:40,200 absolutely, Laura, I love that first technique. 324 00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:41,920 I think that that resonates with me. 325 00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:43,480 I'm sure it resonates with everybody. 326 00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:49,000 I think also I'd add to and I've had the same experiences years 327 00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:52,760 ago and more recently. So it's not that you mustn't 328 00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:57,520 forget it and I I think what I just add to that you cannot go 329 00:18:57,520 --> 00:19:02,030 into those meetings unprepared. Because they you will be eaten 330 00:19:02,030 --> 00:19:04,270 alive. Because there are, they are 331 00:19:04,270 --> 00:19:07,590 smart, they haven't got there because they're, you know, they 332 00:19:07,590 --> 00:19:09,910 are there, they're smart, they have experience. 333 00:19:09,910 --> 00:19:14,070 They have a lot of visibility and if you go in and unprepared, 334 00:19:14,590 --> 00:19:16,350 usually just there's nowhere to go. 335 00:19:16,350 --> 00:19:22,310 So I think preparation is key for for survival maybe, but also 336 00:19:22,630 --> 00:19:25,710 to. You get you know influence them 337 00:19:25,710 --> 00:19:27,910 to where you want to get them to as well. 338 00:19:27,910 --> 00:19:32,430 So you absolutely. I think that is whoever I'm sure 339 00:19:32,430 --> 00:19:35,230 someone said to me years ago you know we'll just go in and see 340 00:19:35,230 --> 00:19:38,870 what happens. I think at that level you really 341 00:19:38,870 --> 00:19:42,110 need to be prepared and and and it's something to think about 342 00:19:42,190 --> 00:19:45,510 that it's just the the the what, what are they worth? 343 00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:49,680 By the hour, you know it's to to actually get it down to you know 344 00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:53,560 what are they worth by the hour and you're taking the time and 345 00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:56,360 you want to use that time as valuably as you can. 346 00:19:56,760 --> 00:20:00,720 So, so definitely prepared and think about what it is that 347 00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:03,680 there that what are their priorities and normally it's 348 00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:06,240 things like finance. Risk. 349 00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:09,240 Reputation and things like that just as a. 350 00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:12,440 Great point, Laura. Great point. 351 00:20:13,350 --> 00:20:15,390 So we're going to, we're going to talk about and we're going to 352 00:20:15,390 --> 00:20:18,670 talk about confidence sort of at the end of and there's just a 353 00:20:18,670 --> 00:20:21,190 couple of other points I wanted to make before we get to the 354 00:20:21,190 --> 00:20:25,210 confidence bit, but. The other point I would make is 355 00:20:25,210 --> 00:20:30,850 that is to respect the egos in in the room, respecting the fact 356 00:20:30,850 --> 00:20:33,290 that there are big egos in the room. 357 00:20:33,290 --> 00:20:36,970 I'm not saying that every senior stakeholder has a huge ego, but 358 00:20:36,970 --> 00:20:39,130 actually, especially if there are more than you know there 359 00:20:39,130 --> 00:20:41,650 are, there are a number of them in the room. 360 00:20:42,090 --> 00:20:46,250 One of the things that really matters as you go up the the 361 00:20:46,250 --> 00:20:50,810 ladder is reputation, right as much as. 362 00:20:51,580 --> 00:20:58,140 Doing the work, it's reputation and peer reputation and sort of 363 00:20:58,220 --> 00:21:01,380 other people in the room. And I think if you go into that, 364 00:21:01,540 --> 00:21:06,420 into that interaction and think about that, it's not that you 365 00:21:06,420 --> 00:21:09,950 should say yes to everything. But you certainly need to 366 00:21:09,950 --> 00:21:13,990 respect that you're not going to win the the the argument you 367 00:21:13,990 --> 00:21:18,030 know if there if there is some confrontation you need to do it 368 00:21:18,030 --> 00:21:22,150 in a way that enables you to to respect those egos in the room 369 00:21:22,190 --> 00:21:26,630 and and tap those egos in the room so that again you get your 370 00:21:26,670 --> 00:21:29,950 end result. And I think certainly in the in 371 00:21:29,950 --> 00:21:32,670 the senior stakeholders, in the board meetings that I've been 372 00:21:32,670 --> 00:21:36,030 into there is I don't think I've ever been in the board meeting 373 00:21:36,030 --> 00:21:39,990 where people sort of. Openly saying, yes, I made a 374 00:21:39,990 --> 00:21:45,110 mistake and anything like that. So I think again it's something 375 00:21:45,110 --> 00:21:49,190 that perhaps you don't think about from a project perspective 376 00:21:49,190 --> 00:21:53,430 so much, but there are definitely big egos going up, 377 00:21:53,510 --> 00:21:56,230 going up the up the company for sure. 378 00:21:56,510 --> 00:21:59,870 And for those that aren't really exposed to each individual, 379 00:21:59,870 --> 00:22:02,990 right, because sometimes a, a board or the C-Suite level could 380 00:22:02,990 --> 00:22:06,230 have what, three to four to five, maybe even more. 381 00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:11,280 What are What are some of your experiences in? 382 00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:15,320 How do you get to know these people without having had any 383 00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:18,440 interaction with them? Is it colleagues, Like where? 384 00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:20,320 Where are you going to get this information? 385 00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:25,120 I mean I would again it depends on time and capacity and 386 00:22:25,120 --> 00:22:27,760 resource. I would want to go in with as 387 00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:33,470 much as I could ideally so. If you've got colleagues who who 388 00:22:33,510 --> 00:22:38,070 have experience with them, you can I I would always be looking 389 00:22:38,070 --> 00:22:42,790 them up online seeing, yeah just just having that information 390 00:22:42,790 --> 00:22:46,070 like oh you came from this company you're you're you were 391 00:22:46,070 --> 00:22:50,590 the you know the senior guy on or girl on that project you know 392 00:22:50,590 --> 00:22:54,030 having some again, it just helps build rapport, right. 393 00:22:54,030 --> 00:22:56,070 It's great it helps. Build rapport. 394 00:22:56,670 --> 00:22:59,990 And there are things that perhaps other people in the 395 00:22:59,990 --> 00:23:04,390 business know that don't mention XY&Z because that always gets a 396 00:23:04,550 --> 00:23:07,510 negative. You know, do do your diligence 397 00:23:07,510 --> 00:23:11,430 to your diligence. And I think when you did go into 398 00:23:11,430 --> 00:23:16,390 that room, having that again in your pocket, it just gives you a 399 00:23:16,390 --> 00:23:18,790 bit more confidence and I don't think. 400 00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:23,160 Going again, it depends on how senior you're at and you may 401 00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:26,520 only have like 5 or 10 minutes. You might have had a hour 402 00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:29,000 schedule, but you might have to go in and you've got 5 minutes 403 00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:32,400 and they're not there to to. Because you know, build 404 00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:35,680 relationships with you first and foremost that are there to get 405 00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:39,640 that job done. And being concise with the way 406 00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:43,520 you communicate is important. And again, being focused comes 407 00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:46,320 back to a point being focused on exactly you want. 408 00:23:46,900 --> 00:23:48,380 What you want to get out of there. 409 00:23:48,700 --> 00:23:51,820 So I think you have to judge the room, the virtual room or the 410 00:23:52,100 --> 00:23:54,900 room and if everyone's like chat, chat, chat, chat, chat 411 00:23:54,900 --> 00:24:00,260 away and build that report. But it it isn't going on which 412 00:24:00,260 --> 00:24:04,780 is lots of time the case walk in and having that kind of hey how 413 00:24:04,780 --> 00:24:09,060 are you chat is not so you kind of need to match the tone. 414 00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:13,280 Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think that's where those power 415 00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:15,920 skills, that emotional intelligence, the kind of to 416 00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:19,640 your point, read the room right and adjust to that, that's where 417 00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:21,280 all that comes into play for sure. 418 00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:23,960 That's great. Thank you Laura and I think if 419 00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:27,080 you I used to work with a guy and. 420 00:24:27,530 --> 00:24:30,290 He supported the same football team as me and I remember 421 00:24:30,290 --> 00:24:32,570 thinking, well, you know, we're going to connect on that. 422 00:24:33,090 --> 00:24:36,810 But again, they might see that coming. 423 00:24:36,970 --> 00:24:41,530 You know, they might see it. They are, most of them are 424 00:24:41,530 --> 00:24:46,210 credible, experienced and again, they just don't want all that 425 00:24:46,250 --> 00:24:48,730 banter necessarily. They just want you to go in and 426 00:24:48,730 --> 00:24:50,730 give them the information that you need. 427 00:24:51,010 --> 00:24:54,650 So you definitely need that emotional intelligence for sure. 428 00:24:56,670 --> 00:25:01,350 To match, I'd be looking to match the the conversation and 429 00:25:01,350 --> 00:25:05,790 and how it was going. But actually taking and sort of 430 00:25:05,790 --> 00:25:09,150 going on to my next point, there is opportunity, there's an 431 00:25:09,310 --> 00:25:11,830 opportunity to build your credibility in those 432 00:25:11,830 --> 00:25:14,950 interactions. Now you don't necessarily, 433 00:25:14,950 --> 00:25:18,350 you're not going in there to to become best buddies with them 434 00:25:18,350 --> 00:25:21,550 because I'm sure that probably isn't at the right place at the 435 00:25:21,550 --> 00:25:25,030 right time, but there is an opportunity to. 436 00:25:26,140 --> 00:25:29,780 Give them some. I always say give examples, you 437 00:25:29,780 --> 00:25:33,340 know, give your answers of the questions you get asked. 438 00:25:33,580 --> 00:25:37,340 But then give examples that build your credibility. 439 00:25:38,020 --> 00:25:41,340 And we talked about preparation before you go in. 440 00:25:41,340 --> 00:25:45,420 I would have in my pocket I'd be thinking if they're interested 441 00:25:45,420 --> 00:25:51,980 in tech projects, I don't know a I tech projects and I'd worked 442 00:25:51,980 --> 00:25:54,980 on a I tech projects I would have. 443 00:25:55,510 --> 00:26:00,510 My examples in my pocket, which I will be able to refer to, that 444 00:26:00,670 --> 00:26:04,350 builds my credibility. So the answer is this. 445 00:26:04,430 --> 00:26:08,310 And for example, I worked on a similar project where I worked 446 00:26:08,310 --> 00:26:12,110 for this client, it was this size, it was did this, it had 447 00:26:12,110 --> 00:26:15,710 these outcomes and what you're doing is you're kind of filling 448 00:26:15,710 --> 00:26:18,880 in. Some color around who you are, 449 00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:24,480 what you do, what experience you have, and you're able to kind of 450 00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:27,200 filter that through the conversation. 451 00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:32,000 And that's a much better way of telling them how good you are 452 00:26:32,120 --> 00:26:34,440 and the experiences that you have. 453 00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:37,440 And again, if you're sort of pressing those buttons and 454 00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:42,200 aligning it all up, they'll be like, oh, OK, so she's the one 455 00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:44,920 that did that project. When that comes up, I want her 456 00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:48,470 on my project. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. 457 00:26:48,630 --> 00:26:52,510 Taking those opportunities to build your credibility in a 458 00:26:52,510 --> 00:26:54,870 tactful way. And one of the ways you can do 459 00:26:54,870 --> 00:26:59,870 that is using examples so that you don't, you know, you're not 460 00:26:59,870 --> 00:27:04,230 like I did this and I did that. It's just like it reminds me of 461 00:27:04,230 --> 00:27:09,070 the project where let me give you some reference, let me back 462 00:27:09,070 --> 00:27:12,950 up what I'm saying and things like that because they will 463 00:27:12,950 --> 00:27:18,380 want. Credibility and to to buy into 464 00:27:18,380 --> 00:27:19,780 what you're saying because they're going to have to make a 465 00:27:19,780 --> 00:27:22,100 decision. Yeah, absolutely. 466 00:27:22,100 --> 00:27:24,900 And I think this is, this is this technique in particular 467 00:27:24,900 --> 00:27:27,540 reminds me of the story you told at the beginning of the podcast 468 00:27:27,540 --> 00:27:30,940 where this is an area where those that are kind of faking it 469 00:27:30,940 --> 00:27:34,580 till they make it, people will, will be exposed, right, Because 470 00:27:34,580 --> 00:27:38,580 they won't have examples to furnish that will, you know, 471 00:27:38,580 --> 00:27:41,380 coincide with the conversation that's happening in the meeting 472 00:27:41,740 --> 00:27:45,440 or if they are. Also faking it, but also really 473 00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:48,560 good communicators and maybe they do have 1000 stories, but 474 00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:51,480 none of them are theirs, right. So there's there's this kind of 475 00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:54,720 and and that's that's part of what happens when you're in a 476 00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:58,560 room with people as they kind of quickly pick up on what what you 477 00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:00,040 are, what type of person you are. 478 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:03,280 And so I think this is a really good area where the more you 479 00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:07,760 kind of build up your history of what you know and make it 480 00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:10,600 meaningful and valuable to part of the conversation, I think 481 00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:15,320 that will really help amplify. You in that in that conversation 482 00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:17,000 and in that room. So thank you Laura. 483 00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:20,720 That's another great technique. For sure and and the and the and 484 00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:24,640 the key is to be specific because it is more believable 485 00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:27,000 and it's where you can build your credibility. 486 00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:31,440 And and I I mean it depends on who you're talking to obviously, 487 00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:34,600 but in in certainly in my experience when you're getting 488 00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:38,640 very senior people in very big companies depending on where you 489 00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:42,260 were they. You know you're not going to get 490 00:28:42,260 --> 00:28:45,340 anything past them, so if you're blagging you're going to be 491 00:28:45,340 --> 00:28:48,980 found out. So depending on who it is you're 492 00:28:48,980 --> 00:28:55,140 speaking to, I would want to have very concrete advice and 493 00:28:55,180 --> 00:28:59,140 all my opinions backed up by credible experience because I 494 00:28:59,140 --> 00:29:02,260 just think they ask questions and go straight through it 495 00:29:02,300 --> 00:29:04,770 otherwise. Absolutely. 496 00:29:04,810 --> 00:29:09,370 And you're instantly someone if they don't have time to give you 497 00:29:09,450 --> 00:29:12,730 a second chance, you're instantly sort of right now we 498 00:29:12,730 --> 00:29:14,290 don't want them on the on the project. 499 00:29:15,770 --> 00:29:18,690 And I think that again, it depends on the environment 500 00:29:18,690 --> 00:29:24,250 you're in and obviously in sort of less sizable companies then 501 00:29:24,250 --> 00:29:27,730 perhaps people aren't as experienced as some of those 502 00:29:27,730 --> 00:29:31,130 boards that we're talking about. So maybe there's a little bit of 503 00:29:31,130 --> 00:29:34,570 room to. Exaggerate. 504 00:29:35,770 --> 00:29:37,010 That's a great word. Yeah. 505 00:29:38,810 --> 00:29:42,130 We're we're using very friendly words for for probably the the 506 00:29:42,130 --> 00:29:44,810 images of the folks that we've worked with in the past that you 507 00:29:44,810 --> 00:29:47,490 know, give us this example. But yes, absolutely Laura, I 508 00:29:47,490 --> 00:29:49,010 think that's that's a great way to put it. 509 00:29:50,650 --> 00:29:54,490 And then I I think one of the the kind of core and we're going 510 00:29:54,490 --> 00:29:57,690 to talk a bit about confidence, but I think one of the things to 511 00:29:57,690 --> 00:30:01,610 be thinking when you're going into the senior stakeholder. 512 00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:07,720 Interactions and we become very self-conscious, don't we do what 513 00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:10,000 if they ask me questions I can't answer? 514 00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:12,800 What am I going to say? What if you know And then never 515 00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:16,280 go through a presentation in the order you want them to. 516 00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:19,040 They will always jump to wherever it is you need to go 517 00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:21,920 and you need to go with that because they are coming from 518 00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:26,560 their perspective and they need an answer to certain questions 519 00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:28,240 that they've got so that they can. 520 00:30:28,790 --> 00:30:32,150 Say yes to the budget. Say yes to the project, say yes 521 00:30:32,150 --> 00:30:36,110 or no to whatever it is. And so you have to sort of shift 522 00:30:36,110 --> 00:30:40,350 and flow with the conversation whilst keeping calm. 523 00:30:40,350 --> 00:30:44,350 And I think one of the key things to remember when you're 524 00:30:44,350 --> 00:30:48,550 going into these senior stakeholder interactions is to 525 00:30:48,550 --> 00:30:52,950 remember to focus on the value that you bring to the table 526 00:30:53,670 --> 00:30:56,630 because you're hired to do a job. 527 00:30:57,100 --> 00:31:00,940 And they're not expecting you to do their job or be where they 528 00:31:00,940 --> 00:31:05,220 are in their careers or even have the same comments or 529 00:31:05,220 --> 00:31:08,100 experience as them. They've hired you to do a job. 530 00:31:08,140 --> 00:31:12,740 And they want you to go with that value so that you can add 531 00:31:12,740 --> 00:31:15,980 value to the interaction, to the conversation. 532 00:31:15,980 --> 00:31:20,860 So when you feel yourself like you can think, well, actually I 533 00:31:20,860 --> 00:31:22,240 know that. I do this. 534 00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:25,480 This is the value I bring in and that is what I'm gonna focus on 535 00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:29,440 in this conversation. So really focus on the value 536 00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:33,480 that you bring to the table. I imagine doing that kind of 537 00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:38,320 swings us into the topic of confidence as well, right? 538 00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:41,760 So when you understand your own value, I know for myself when I 539 00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:45,370 see that and. I think as as women in 540 00:31:45,370 --> 00:31:47,610 particular, we struggle with that, right. 541 00:31:47,610 --> 00:31:49,970 I think it's just there's studies on this. 542 00:31:49,970 --> 00:31:53,170 There's entire studies about how the mechanics of our brain work 543 00:31:53,170 --> 00:31:57,330 as women and how it's really hard for us to recognize the 544 00:31:57,330 --> 00:32:02,050 value in ourselves. And but once you do, and even if 545 00:32:02,050 --> 00:32:07,290 that is a believe me, this is a practice, this is not just a one 546 00:32:07,290 --> 00:32:10,130 time aha moment, I see the value in myself. 547 00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:13,400 This is day-to-day reminding yourself of the value. 548 00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:16,320 And so I'd love this technique, Laura, so much just because 549 00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:18,640 there's a lot. It's, it's a very simple 550 00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:22,080 technique. But I think of all of them this 551 00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:25,160 people might struggle with this one in particular, maybe women, 552 00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:28,800 just because this is not something we're used to doing. 553 00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:32,400 And so to get yourself there could be a challenge. 554 00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:36,520 But I think when you do, it will definitely pay dividends for 555 00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:38,920 you, especially if you're going into a meeting like this where 556 00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:41,810 you're surrounded by. A senior leadership team that 557 00:32:41,810 --> 00:32:44,570 all the confidence in the world would be exuding from you if you 558 00:32:44,570 --> 00:32:46,930 could figure that piece out, yeah. 559 00:32:48,570 --> 00:32:51,610 Absolutely. And let's talk a bit about how 560 00:32:51,610 --> 00:32:54,690 do you do that. So one of the things is. 561 00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:58,120 Is the value and and I think you're you're absolutely right 562 00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:02,840 and I again we could we we can talk for hours about the 563 00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:06,680 differences between men and women and and all of that stuff. 564 00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:11,760 But whether you're male or female, focusing on the value 565 00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:15,720 you take into that meeting is a good way to get out of your head 566 00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:21,120 and focus on what's in the room. But one of the things that is 567 00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:24,520 key in these interactions is confidence. 568 00:33:24,950 --> 00:33:27,830 And it's always going to be confidence. 569 00:33:27,830 --> 00:33:30,670 And I know that in sort of when we're starting out in our 570 00:33:30,670 --> 00:33:35,030 careers, people are encouraging. And you know that there's 571 00:33:35,070 --> 00:33:38,710 there's room to not show that you're nervous so much and 572 00:33:38,710 --> 00:33:40,350 things like. But I think once you get to a 573 00:33:40,350 --> 00:33:45,190 certain level, that confidence is key to the interaction that 574 00:33:45,230 --> 00:33:49,530 you're going to have because. People pay attention to 575 00:33:49,530 --> 00:33:53,930 confident people, right? We we naturally it's in our 576 00:33:53,930 --> 00:33:57,450 genes to pay attention to confident people and confident 577 00:33:57,450 --> 00:34:03,410 people have that authority and really confidence enable what's 578 00:34:03,410 --> 00:34:07,730 going through us. It enables us to take action and 579 00:34:07,730 --> 00:34:10,810 it enables us to think clearly so. 580 00:34:11,290 --> 00:34:16,010 They want you to be confident because then they can trust the 581 00:34:16,010 --> 00:34:19,250 signals that they're getting is that they're like, yeah, she 582 00:34:19,250 --> 00:34:21,170 knows what she's talking about. We're going to make this 583 00:34:21,170 --> 00:34:22,929 decision and then we're going to do XY&Z. 584 00:34:22,929 --> 00:34:26,889 And as soon as you as soon as that sort of confidence isn't 585 00:34:26,889 --> 00:34:29,850 there, they're kind of distracted and off to the next 586 00:34:29,850 --> 00:34:32,770 thing because you've lost that credibility. 587 00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:39,920 And I think one of the sort of key things to remember is 588 00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:45,679 whatever is going on inside you. So however you're feeling inside 589 00:34:46,199 --> 00:34:51,719 is what you project outside. So if you're feeling like 590 00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:59,360 generally it's going to be showing, it's very hard for any 591 00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:05,090 period of time certainly. In in that interaction to hold 592 00:35:05,090 --> 00:35:10,530 down feelings that you're like freaking out now they expect you 593 00:35:10,530 --> 00:35:15,170 to be nervous because it's that hierarchy thing, but you need to 594 00:35:15,570 --> 00:35:19,370 have confidence in what you're saying and I think there's a 595 00:35:19,370 --> 00:35:21,210 difference there. They don't expect you to be like 596 00:35:21,450 --> 00:35:26,770 ice cold and walk in and not be intimidated by that meeting, but 597 00:35:26,770 --> 00:35:30,330 they expect you to be confident in in what you say and I think. 598 00:35:30,890 --> 00:35:33,850 You've got to think about what is going, what is going on 599 00:35:33,850 --> 00:35:37,850 inside, and therefore what am I projecting outside? 600 00:35:38,370 --> 00:35:43,250 You're not. And I love that you you know you 601 00:35:43,250 --> 00:35:46,530 summarize the all the techniques with I love that we're covering 602 00:35:46,530 --> 00:35:50,050 confidence last because I I imagine if we flip this in 603 00:35:50,050 --> 00:35:52,450 reverse and we went with confidence first, people would 604 00:35:52,450 --> 00:35:55,570 be like well if I'm not confident and what does the rest 605 00:35:55,570 --> 00:35:58,370 of these techniques mean for me but. 606 00:35:58,820 --> 00:36:03,060 Very nicely. You have woven the end point of 607 00:36:03,060 --> 00:36:06,300 this kind of the bow is that if you do all the techniques that 608 00:36:06,300 --> 00:36:10,540 you've outlined before, we got to this piece on confidence that 609 00:36:10,540 --> 00:36:15,460 will absolutely help you kind of build to get to that area where 610 00:36:15,460 --> 00:36:18,020 you feel confident. Yeah. 611 00:36:18,380 --> 00:36:21,660 Everything we've talked about is about giving you more 612 00:36:21,660 --> 00:36:24,370 confidence. And I think one of the other 613 00:36:24,370 --> 00:36:28,250 things that everyone can do, and I do it right, I do it before I 614 00:36:28,330 --> 00:36:33,650 I, I interact in when I'm going into important meetings, is that 615 00:36:33,850 --> 00:36:36,170 I always talk about confidence as a muscle. 616 00:36:36,330 --> 00:36:41,090 It's like a muscle. And what makes confidence is how 617 00:36:41,090 --> 00:36:45,290 you're breathing, how your, what your posture is, your body 618 00:36:45,290 --> 00:36:48,440 language. What is going on in your head? 619 00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:52,000 What how you know the emotions that are going through all that 620 00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:56,800 connected up is how confidence you're how confident you're 621 00:36:56,800 --> 00:37:00,840 feeling. And when you practice feeling 622 00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:05,360 confident, then all that stuff starts linking up and you are 623 00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:08,400 more confident. And actually the point is that 624 00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:12,560 your brain cannot work out the difference. 625 00:37:13,150 --> 00:37:17,710 Between what is made-up in your head, what is a made-up 626 00:37:17,710 --> 00:37:21,030 experience and what actually is real. 627 00:37:21,710 --> 00:37:26,950 So it makes sense that if you practice and if you tone your 628 00:37:27,030 --> 00:37:31,710 confidence muscle, then you you, you develop this and your brain 629 00:37:31,710 --> 00:37:34,710 is like okay, That's quite okay. That's what I need to go in 630 00:37:34,710 --> 00:37:36,310 with. I need to go in with that 631 00:37:36,310 --> 00:37:38,910 feeling and one thing that you can do and I do it. 632 00:37:39,070 --> 00:37:42,310 I do it every day and I do it for slightly different reasons. 633 00:37:42,690 --> 00:37:47,250 Is to go through take a few minutes every morning. 634 00:37:47,410 --> 00:37:52,650 Take a few minutes every morning and visualize that interaction 635 00:37:52,690 --> 00:37:55,370 going well. Visualize yourself being 636 00:37:55,370 --> 00:37:59,050 confident. It may be a made-up interaction 637 00:37:59,050 --> 00:38:01,690 if you just want to feel confident, or it may be 638 00:38:01,690 --> 00:38:04,450 something that's coming up, or it may be something in the past, 639 00:38:04,450 --> 00:38:08,530 but if you just close your eyes and go through that experience. 640 00:38:09,010 --> 00:38:11,650 Seeing what you see, hearing what you hear, feeling what you 641 00:38:11,650 --> 00:38:14,730 feel and get connecting those emotions. 642 00:38:15,210 --> 00:38:19,210 Your brain doesn't distinguish between what is real and what is 643 00:38:19,210 --> 00:38:22,730 imaginary. And that is why visualization 644 00:38:22,730 --> 00:38:26,850 work and why you can kind of build this confidence muscle. 645 00:38:27,170 --> 00:38:29,890 And I always get all my clients to, that's one of the first 646 00:38:29,890 --> 00:38:33,610 things I do for them or or get them to do is I say, you know, 647 00:38:33,610 --> 00:38:35,570 this is how confidence is made-up. 648 00:38:35,570 --> 00:38:38,010 This is all the components of confidence. 649 00:38:38,630 --> 00:38:41,510 And yes, there are other factors that give us confidence like 650 00:38:41,510 --> 00:38:45,590 we've discussed today. At core, you want to build your 651 00:38:45,590 --> 00:38:48,670 confidence muscle on a daily basis and you know what's great 652 00:38:48,670 --> 00:38:52,590 when you do it, it makes you feel good until you go into your 653 00:38:52,590 --> 00:38:56,110 day going, oh, okay, I'm ready, I'm on it. 654 00:38:56,190 --> 00:38:59,990 And okay, when you go into those senior stakeholder meetings, 655 00:38:59,990 --> 00:39:02,190 they are more challenging for sure. 656 00:39:02,510 --> 00:39:05,630 But if you're going in and flexing that confidence muscle. 657 00:39:06,250 --> 00:39:09,330 Then you're just going to perform much, much better in 658 00:39:09,330 --> 00:39:12,730 those interactions. So take a few minutes of your 659 00:39:12,730 --> 00:39:18,850 morning and go through that visualization of any interaction 660 00:39:19,010 --> 00:39:22,970 where you are on top of your game feeling really confident 661 00:39:23,290 --> 00:39:27,250 and I promise you it, it would shift and create that habit for 662 00:39:27,250 --> 00:39:30,770 you so that you can go into those interactions being. 663 00:39:31,310 --> 00:39:34,430 Much more confident and when you're feeling confident it just 664 00:39:34,430 --> 00:39:36,270 helps you perform better as well. 665 00:39:36,270 --> 00:39:39,070 So if people are listening to this alike, I'm already 666 00:39:39,070 --> 00:39:44,230 confident I do it so I perform better and I'm I'm you know I'm 667 00:39:44,230 --> 00:39:47,230 on my 8th game. People who struggle with 668 00:39:47,230 --> 00:39:50,710 confidence do it to be more confident and there's a kind of 669 00:39:50,910 --> 00:39:55,310 transition through that process but it it makes you feel great 670 00:39:55,310 --> 00:39:58,030 too. So part of the morning routine I 671 00:39:58,030 --> 00:40:03,390 always like it to go go through. I love that you've portrayed the 672 00:40:03,390 --> 00:40:07,230 different aspects of confidence, right? 673 00:40:07,230 --> 00:40:10,350 Because I I at least feel like when I was growing up 674 00:40:10,350 --> 00:40:14,830 professionally, professionally, the word confidence meant you 675 00:40:14,830 --> 00:40:20,070 were arrogant or you know, you you knew more than everybody 676 00:40:20,070 --> 00:40:22,070 else. And that's not necessarily what 677 00:40:22,070 --> 00:40:24,190 we're saying here. I love the way that you said it. 678 00:40:24,190 --> 00:40:27,150 It's like you go through these progressions of what confidence 679 00:40:27,150 --> 00:40:29,830 means for you. And it may be starting out in 680 00:40:29,830 --> 00:40:32,790 your career, it's just kind of building to be confident. 681 00:40:33,190 --> 00:40:35,510 Whereas later on in your career, because you've had the 682 00:40:35,510 --> 00:40:38,430 experiences and because you've practiced and given yourself the 683 00:40:38,430 --> 00:40:42,230 space to remind yourself that you should be confident in the 684 00:40:42,230 --> 00:40:43,870 value that you bring to the table. 685 00:40:44,270 --> 00:40:47,230 That it eventually kind of transitions to this other space 686 00:40:47,230 --> 00:40:50,990 where it's just how do I I'm confident, but how do I build on 687 00:40:50,990 --> 00:40:52,750 that? How do I make sure that it 688 00:40:52,750 --> 00:40:55,390 continues to add value and that and so. 689 00:40:55,980 --> 00:40:59,140 Yes, Laura, I love that you kind of tied this all up in a pretty 690 00:40:59,140 --> 00:41:03,100 bow with the this conversation around confidence, because I 691 00:41:03,100 --> 00:41:07,780 think without that the rest of the techniques kind of they're 692 00:41:07,780 --> 00:41:10,020 there. But I think that it just all 693 00:41:10,020 --> 00:41:12,300 ties together very, very nice and neat. 694 00:41:12,380 --> 00:41:16,660 So Laura, I think this has been a great conversation around how 695 00:41:16,660 --> 00:41:19,740 you can bring all those things together, techniques, 696 00:41:19,740 --> 00:41:23,740 confidence, build yourself up. And I I appreciate that you're 697 00:41:23,740 --> 00:41:27,500 bringing it to us in this month as well for for women's history 698 00:41:27,500 --> 00:41:29,020 months. It's like I think it's just a 699 00:41:29,020 --> 00:41:32,220 very relevant topic. But no matter which gender is 700 00:41:32,220 --> 00:41:34,500 listening right now, I think that all of these tips and 701 00:41:34,500 --> 00:41:37,820 techniques can apply to you and how you would effectively 702 00:41:37,820 --> 00:41:40,540 communicate with senior stakeholders and do that with 703 00:41:40,540 --> 00:41:42,860 confidence. So Laura, thank you so much for 704 00:41:42,860 --> 00:41:46,620 your time today on this installment of the Everyday PM 705 00:41:46,620 --> 00:41:48,540 podcast. If folks want to continue the 706 00:41:48,540 --> 00:41:50,980 conversation, I know we talked a little bit earlier about. 707 00:41:51,350 --> 00:41:54,230 Your master class, but if there's any other avenues that 708 00:41:54,230 --> 00:41:57,110 people can reach you on, please feel free to plug them now. 709 00:41:57,910 --> 00:42:01,950 Yeah no I would you know confidence is part of the the 710 00:42:02,390 --> 00:42:05,910 the training at the master class as his senior stakeholder 711 00:42:06,550 --> 00:42:10,230 communication and how to really progress and and build 712 00:42:10,230 --> 00:42:11,710 relationships in the master class. 713 00:42:11,710 --> 00:42:14,950 And I I, I I just say to everyone come to that master 714 00:42:14,950 --> 00:42:17,990 class and then have some experience the types of things 715 00:42:18,030 --> 00:42:21,870 that ways that we can help you. And then we can carry on the 716 00:42:21,870 --> 00:42:23,950 conversation from there. So that is at 717 00:42:23,950 --> 00:42:29,830 www.activatemycareerlive.com and I look forward to seeing you 718 00:42:29,830 --> 00:42:32,310 that. I highly encourage everyone to 719 00:42:32,310 --> 00:42:34,350 check it out. I've I've worked, obviously 720 00:42:34,350 --> 00:42:36,310 Laura and I are still going to know each other, but you've been 721 00:42:36,310 --> 00:42:39,150 on a few podcasts, you've given us a lot of great knowledge 722 00:42:39,150 --> 00:42:42,070 through those podcast episodes and I've worked with in my 723 00:42:42,070 --> 00:42:46,070 career other professionals, people who are experienced, who 724 00:42:46,070 --> 00:42:49,630 can help, and so this is an area that you're looking for. 725 00:42:50,250 --> 00:42:53,050 Help in or if it's something else in your career, then 726 00:42:53,050 --> 00:42:55,850 definitely please feel free to reach out to Laura and attend 727 00:42:55,850 --> 00:42:59,010 that master class. So for the everyday PM, you can 728 00:42:59,010 --> 00:43:02,490 support us as well support us on Spotify. 729 00:43:02,490 --> 00:43:04,850 I just realized Spotify has followers. 730 00:43:04,850 --> 00:43:06,770 I didn't know that existed. So we've got. 731 00:43:07,240 --> 00:43:09,320 A few 100 followers on there, which is great. 732 00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:11,960 Thank you for those that are following the podcast, but if 733 00:43:11,960 --> 00:43:15,040 you aren't following the podcast yet, please give us a follow on 734 00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:17,240 Spotify. You can check out the video 735 00:43:17,240 --> 00:43:21,640 version of this on my YouTube channel, youtube.com/and Campia. 736 00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:25,600 And you can check the notification bells so you know 737 00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:28,040 when new content goes up. Leave us a great comment, 738 00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:31,200 subscribe all those great things to show that you support the 739 00:43:31,240 --> 00:43:34,350 everyday PM. So that will do it for Laura and 740 00:43:34,350 --> 00:43:36,830 I in this installment of the Everyday PM podcast. 741 00:43:36,830 --> 00:43:40,630 Thanks everybody for listening today, and until next time, take 742 00:43:40,630 --> 00:43:40,910 care.