1 00:00:10,080 --> 00:00:13,160 Welcome to the Everyday PM Podcast, the podcast where we 2 00:00:13,160 --> 00:00:16,079 discussed project management principles for your everyday 3 00:00:16,079 --> 00:00:18,400 life. My name is Anne Campia and I'm a 4 00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:21,280 certified Project slash Program Manager with a decade of 5 00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:24,200 experience working in healthcare, retail, consumer 6 00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:28,580 goods and tech industries. I'm so excited and welcome two 7 00:00:28,660 --> 00:00:30,900 very special guests to our podcast today. 8 00:00:31,340 --> 00:00:34,180 Returning to the podcast, we have Greg Christiansen, who is 9 00:00:34,180 --> 00:00:37,740 the Vice President of projecthub.com who you may have 10 00:00:37,740 --> 00:00:41,620 met through previous episodes. We've had coffee chats as well 11 00:00:41,620 --> 00:00:45,300 as we just featured Project hub.com on a very recent 12 00:00:45,300 --> 00:00:47,300 episode. So Greg, welcome back to the 13 00:00:47,300 --> 00:00:51,980 podcast and we also have joining us Mark Weepel, who is the 14 00:00:52,020 --> 00:00:55,070 author of Visual Project Management, who is also an 15 00:00:55,070 --> 00:00:58,950 expert in project execution and delivering projects in less 16 00:00:59,230 --> 00:01:02,190 time. So I am so excited to dig into 17 00:01:02,190 --> 00:01:04,590 your expertise. Mark and Greg, welcome back to 18 00:01:04,590 --> 00:01:08,230 the podcast For those who have not met either of you yet. 19 00:01:08,550 --> 00:01:10,070 Mark, let's go ahead and start with you. 20 00:01:10,510 --> 00:01:12,910 Welcome to the podcast. Please take your a brief moment 21 00:01:12,910 --> 00:01:14,590 to introduce yourself to our audience. 22 00:01:15,830 --> 00:01:19,630 Well, I've been doing a project management, working on projects 23 00:01:20,150 --> 00:01:24,750 and improving project processes. I've created the for about 20. 24 00:01:24,750 --> 00:01:28,910 Years I created the. Viewpoint Visual Project 25 00:01:28,910 --> 00:01:32,830 Management Methodology. That's the subject of the book 26 00:01:32,830 --> 00:01:33,350 that. I wrote. 27 00:01:33,870 --> 00:01:40,670 And I if you wanted to go fast, then recall me. 28 00:01:40,670 --> 00:01:44,140 That's kind of the way it works. Wonderful. 29 00:01:44,140 --> 00:01:46,300 Yeah. And I, I get the feeling I I 30 00:01:46,340 --> 00:01:48,500 definitely did some research last night. 31 00:01:48,500 --> 00:01:51,580 So I have a few questions for you on how on how we are able to 32 00:01:51,580 --> 00:01:54,860 do that as project managers. But let me throw it over to Greg 33 00:01:54,860 --> 00:01:57,620 to reintroduce himself to those who have already met him. 34 00:01:57,620 --> 00:01:59,940 But for those who are meeting you for the first time, Greg, 35 00:02:00,260 --> 00:02:02,540 please take a brief moment to introduce yourself to the 36 00:02:02,540 --> 00:02:04,880 audience. Thank you and I appreciate it. 37 00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:08,000 My name is Greg Christensen. I am the Vice President of 38 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:10,560 Project Hub. That is a project and task 39 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:13,040 management solution. And I also do some Steam Ms. 40 00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:15,960 consulting and a little bit of voice work on the side. 41 00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:19,840 And as always, it's a pleasure to be here with you, Ann, and to 42 00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:23,480 get another episode in the can. Absolutely. 43 00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:27,440 And Greg, I feel like I should just invest in a second chair 44 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:31,000 that sits right next to me that you know you can come and 45 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:34,660 commandeer because you've been such a regular and frequent 46 00:02:34,660 --> 00:02:38,460 presence on the podcast. So I can't express how thankful 47 00:02:38,460 --> 00:02:41,740 I am that you are back with us today and bringing along your 48 00:02:41,740 --> 00:02:43,420 friend Mark I believe your friends. 49 00:02:43,420 --> 00:02:46,500 I hope your friends but bringing along your friend and expert 50 00:02:46,540 --> 00:02:48,860 Mark to to join us in the chat today. 51 00:02:48,860 --> 00:02:51,740 So we're going to go go ahead and dive in. 52 00:02:52,380 --> 00:02:55,380 Greg, you've been learning a lot about project management and I 53 00:02:55,380 --> 00:02:58,420 know that there are various methodologies that you've 54 00:02:58,420 --> 00:03:02,310 learned and even you and I have chatted about briefly as well in 55 00:03:02,310 --> 00:03:05,270 our coffee chats. But I know we've dedicated a few 56 00:03:05,270 --> 00:03:08,110 episodes to talking about project management basics and 57 00:03:08,110 --> 00:03:10,150 things like that, postmortems etcetera. 58 00:03:10,150 --> 00:03:14,150 So you have been taking it all in because I know that you don't 59 00:03:14,150 --> 00:03:17,710 have the project management background, but you are as 60 00:03:17,710 --> 00:03:21,350 hungry as anyone I have ever met in terms of wanting to learn 61 00:03:21,350 --> 00:03:25,190 more about it. And so with that being said, I 62 00:03:25,190 --> 00:03:28,270 know you've invested so much of your time recently and learning 63 00:03:28,270 --> 00:03:32,430 about the project management space and #1I commend you for 64 00:03:32,430 --> 00:03:34,950 that. But #2, you mentioned how much 65 00:03:34,950 --> 00:03:38,430 you've learned from Mark, who is our special guest today, and you 66 00:03:38,430 --> 00:03:41,350 suggested we bring him onto the show as well to share his 67 00:03:41,350 --> 00:03:44,470 expertise with our listeners. So again, very excited to dive 68 00:03:44,470 --> 00:03:46,430 in there. We're going to be talking about 69 00:03:46,430 --> 00:03:50,350 project execution and process improvement and all of that good 70 00:03:50,350 --> 00:03:53,490 stuff. Look, you weren't kidding with 71 00:03:53,490 --> 00:03:56,090 Mark's experience. I had to Google him myself and 72 00:03:56,090 --> 00:03:58,650 just learn a little bit about our guests before we started 73 00:03:58,650 --> 00:04:01,970 chatting. And he's got 4 published books, 74 00:04:02,370 --> 00:04:06,850 15 ebooks, A plethora of a wonderful material out there 75 00:04:06,850 --> 00:04:10,650 that is just for somebody as eager to learn about project 76 00:04:10,650 --> 00:04:13,810 management as you are, Greg. There's just a lot out there, 77 00:04:13,810 --> 00:04:17,490 and I can envision us doing hours of a podcast together. 78 00:04:17,490 --> 00:04:20,490 But for today, why don't we focus on what you've been 79 00:04:20,490 --> 00:04:22,840 learning from Mark up to this day? 80 00:04:22,840 --> 00:04:24,680 Greg, why don't you share with us what you've learned? 81 00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:29,280 Well, so I want to try to put it succinctly and kind of simply 82 00:04:29,280 --> 00:04:33,040 like high level, but I'm really lucky to have that opportunity 83 00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:35,280 to work with Mark for about 60 days now. 84 00:04:35,280 --> 00:04:39,160 Now I knew of him previously and I had done some research because 85 00:04:39,160 --> 00:04:42,720 I I know a lot about the concepts that he built, but I 86 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:44,680 didn't necessarily understand them. 87 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:47,480 So when we got to talking and working through things. 88 00:04:48,160 --> 00:04:52,200 He pointed me to the right ebook that really helped me solidify 89 00:04:52,200 --> 00:04:55,120 my understanding in a general sense, right? 90 00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:58,280 I'm not a practitioner like you are, like Mark is, but 91 00:04:58,280 --> 00:05:02,280 understanding what Project Execution Maturity is all about. 92 00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:05,760 If we look at the Project Execution Maturity Model and in 93 00:05:05,760 --> 00:05:08,360 his philosophy, what I've recognized and I've tried to 94 00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:14,080 really hold on to because it makes sense, is how we can move 95 00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:17,400 better, faster and really on time. 96 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:22,000 With a focus on execution rather than a focus on planning. 97 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:24,400 And that's kind of it in a nutshell. 98 00:05:24,760 --> 00:05:28,000 But there there are a lot of different there's intricacies 99 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:32,480 and nuance that he could explain way better than I ever could. 100 00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:35,760 So just at the surface level, I'm understanding what you need 101 00:05:35,760 --> 00:05:39,360 to look at and what you need to focus on to really, truly 102 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:44,900 deliver projects at speed. Without any of the treacherous 103 00:05:44,900 --> 00:05:48,260 pitfalls, there's there's a way to do that and Mark understands 104 00:05:48,260 --> 00:05:50,860 that really endemically in my opinion. 105 00:05:51,900 --> 00:05:54,220 So I love hearing about this collaboration. 106 00:05:54,220 --> 00:05:56,660 You 2 have have the synergy that you have. 107 00:05:56,660 --> 00:05:59,780 You know somebody like Greg who's who wants to learn more, 108 00:05:59,780 --> 00:06:04,140 you found this methodology that you're essentially attracted to. 109 00:06:05,180 --> 00:06:08,500 Mark, can you briefly explain your philosophy and that 110 00:06:08,740 --> 00:06:11,940 methodology that Greg is talking about to to our audience? 111 00:06:13,150 --> 00:06:16,630 Of course, yeah. Well, my background is 112 00:06:17,230 --> 00:06:23,030 scheduling and manufacturing, and I came to project management 113 00:06:23,350 --> 00:06:28,270 a little bit late in life. But I I was always the the guy 114 00:06:28,350 --> 00:06:32,110 that got the call when something was in trouble. 115 00:06:32,110 --> 00:06:35,750 You know, they hey my project. My my plant. 116 00:06:35,750 --> 00:06:39,030 Is always late. I can't deliver on time. 117 00:06:39,150 --> 00:06:43,350 Everything was just crazy. You know, help me pull this 118 00:06:43,350 --> 00:06:46,670 thing out of the ditch. And I work a lot in the oil 119 00:06:46,670 --> 00:06:50,030 industry and they're very, very date driven. 120 00:06:50,870 --> 00:06:55,190 And. So I learned about this 121 00:06:55,190 --> 00:06:58,550 methodology called Critical Chain Project Management and 122 00:06:58,990 --> 00:07:03,390 taught that for a long time. That's very planning centric 123 00:07:03,790 --> 00:07:09,270 approach and as I. And and I've also been involved 124 00:07:09,270 --> 00:07:11,750 in the lead manufacturing and that sort of thing and we we had 125 00:07:11,750 --> 00:07:18,870 a project with BP and Worley Parsons after the Gulf oil spill 126 00:07:19,790 --> 00:07:24,950 where they had you know. They had. 127 00:07:25,230 --> 00:07:28,510 BP essentially had to redo all of their engineering for all 128 00:07:28,510 --> 00:07:31,050 their offshore. Maintenance stuff right. 129 00:07:31,050 --> 00:07:34,250 So there are we got to we don't want another explosion let's 130 00:07:34,250 --> 00:07:37,690 look at everything we're doing and and it creates this wave of 131 00:07:37,690 --> 00:07:42,810 work on the engineering side. And so Mark you know you did you 132 00:07:42,810 --> 00:07:45,890 and your team did a great job on the spill cleanup. 133 00:07:46,370 --> 00:07:49,890 Why don't you help us with this and we'll give you a six month 134 00:07:49,890 --> 00:07:56,130 contract and and I got in there and there's about 450 engineers. 135 00:07:56,870 --> 00:08:00,190 And. Spread across multiple floors, 136 00:08:00,190 --> 00:08:07,150 different campuses, across town, and they've got 450 projects and 137 00:08:07,470 --> 00:08:09,030 you know, there's complete chaos. 138 00:08:09,990 --> 00:08:12,830 And I was looking. At that and I'm. 139 00:08:12,830 --> 00:08:14,870 Going well, we can't do what we did before. 140 00:08:15,030 --> 00:08:18,430 Why do we take something that we did in manufacturing and do 141 00:08:18,430 --> 00:08:22,250 this? And so we took this visual 142 00:08:22,250 --> 00:08:25,130 approach that we've been using in manufacturing and applied it 143 00:08:25,170 --> 00:08:29,610 to the engineering projects and the results were astounding. 144 00:08:29,970 --> 00:08:33,690 I mean just unbelievable performance improvement in terms 145 00:08:33,690 --> 00:08:37,250 of throughput and delivery and productivity and people were 146 00:08:37,250 --> 00:08:43,580 happy, you know the temperature. The temperature really cooled. 147 00:08:44,220 --> 00:08:46,020 But you know, the engineers weren't fighting anymore. 148 00:08:46,020 --> 00:08:48,540 They could come in, they could say okay, here's where we go. 149 00:08:48,780 --> 00:08:53,620 And it worked really well. And and I was, of course, I was 150 00:08:53,620 --> 00:08:55,340 really happy. My client was happy, but I 151 00:08:55,340 --> 00:08:57,220 didn't. What I wanted to know is why? 152 00:08:57,260 --> 00:08:58,740 Why? Why did that work? 153 00:08:59,140 --> 00:09:02,620 Why did I what? What did we do that made it. 154 00:09:02,620 --> 00:09:08,340 And that led US-led me on a journey to identify the elements 155 00:09:08,540 --> 00:09:10,620 for successful project execution. 156 00:09:11,890 --> 00:09:16,610 That were repeatable and we could test and repeat and that 157 00:09:16,610 --> 00:09:20,170 led to the execution maturity model. 158 00:09:20,290 --> 00:09:24,170 The Execution Maturity model basically has three levels, and 159 00:09:25,330 --> 00:09:28,610 the idea of the Execution Maturity model is it's a process 160 00:09:28,610 --> 00:09:31,970 that you can leave your team through from. 161 00:09:32,560 --> 00:09:37,800 You know, utter chaos, ad hoc to systematically optimizing your 162 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:41,920 your project process. And it starts with basic 163 00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:44,520 collaboration. Basic collaboration means how do 164 00:09:44,520 --> 00:09:48,320 we get people to talk to each other in a constructive way and 165 00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:49,760 and by constructive. I mean. 166 00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:52,240 How can we get people to talk together? 167 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:54,800 That moves the project forward, right? 168 00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:57,620 So it's not. You know, people think about 169 00:09:57,620 --> 00:10:00,340 collaboration, about throwing ideas off, but it's a very 170 00:10:00,340 --> 00:10:02,940 structured process to say, you know, these are the things we we 171 00:10:02,940 --> 00:10:04,300 do. These are the things we talk 172 00:10:04,300 --> 00:10:05,580 about. These are the things that we 173 00:10:05,580 --> 00:10:07,780 measure. And these are the things. 174 00:10:07,780 --> 00:10:10,500 That happen to keep the project on time. 175 00:10:11,820 --> 00:10:14,140 And. Once we complete kind of this 176 00:10:14,140 --> 00:10:17,780 basic collaboration, then we move into the next level, which 177 00:10:17,780 --> 00:10:22,020 is improved coordination where we are dealing with remote teams 178 00:10:22,020 --> 00:10:29,190 where we're doing more. Sophisticated management, we're 179 00:10:29,190 --> 00:10:34,910 doing more promising or doing using more probabilistic kinds 180 00:10:34,910 --> 00:10:38,230 of things. And then we move into a third 181 00:10:38,230 --> 00:10:41,390 level which is more geared towards optimization and 182 00:10:41,390 --> 00:10:45,190 automation where we can say and closing the loop, essentially 183 00:10:45,190 --> 00:10:48,710 closing the loop between planning and execution. 184 00:10:49,140 --> 00:10:53,660 And using probabilistic tools, you know things like Monte Carlo 185 00:10:53,660 --> 00:10:55,460 simulation and that sort of thing. 186 00:10:56,100 --> 00:11:01,260 But we don't start there, right. So the execution maturity model 187 00:11:01,260 --> 00:11:05,460 is 12 elements that take you through the basics of you know 188 00:11:05,460 --> 00:11:09,140 what do we have to do to how can I optimize my process to make it 189 00:11:09,140 --> 00:11:11,220 go faster and faster and faster and faster. 190 00:11:14,570 --> 00:11:18,370 Yeah, that's incredible. And and I think I, I, I would 191 00:11:18,370 --> 00:11:22,090 say that just in that scenario and and everything all your 192 00:11:22,090 --> 00:11:26,730 experiences collectively, I can see how Greg has learned so much 193 00:11:26,730 --> 00:11:30,570 in such a short and what what is really a short period of time. 194 00:11:30,570 --> 00:11:34,450 And Greg, for you, you know how much of what Mark just explained 195 00:11:34,450 --> 00:11:37,650 to us and and kind of illustrated to our audience this 196 00:11:37,970 --> 00:11:41,050 the, the situations he's been in and how he's dealt with it, how 197 00:11:41,050 --> 00:11:42,650 much of that has shaped your views? 198 00:11:44,470 --> 00:11:51,230 Well, it's pretty incredible for me because once I had my aha 199 00:11:51,270 --> 00:11:56,790 moment with really understanding how this works, I I use terms 200 00:11:56,790 --> 00:11:58,670 like where the rubber meets the road. 201 00:11:59,350 --> 00:12:04,350 I think what happened for me was understanding that model the 202 00:12:04,350 --> 00:12:08,430 three tiers or levels like Mark was just explaining and then. 203 00:12:09,090 --> 00:12:12,130 Getting exposed to those 12 principles or elements within 204 00:12:12,290 --> 00:12:17,530 the Project Execution Maturity model for some strange reason. 205 00:12:17,530 --> 00:12:20,890 Maybe it's serendipity, but I started to see it everywhere. 206 00:12:21,050 --> 00:12:24,650 And I think you mentioned earlier in this episode and 207 00:12:24,650 --> 00:12:27,930 where you could tell that I'm that I'm really on that chase 208 00:12:27,930 --> 00:12:31,410 and trying to trying to really get that information in because 209 00:12:31,890 --> 00:12:34,410 I'm liking it and I'm understanding it and I think a 210 00:12:34,410 --> 00:12:38,460 lot of that came from. Mark and how he has presented 211 00:12:38,460 --> 00:12:40,660 it. I have read a lot of his 212 00:12:40,660 --> 00:12:45,020 materials, a pretty incredible amount and it's not all in 213 00:12:45,020 --> 00:12:47,980 there. But the the process in general 214 00:12:47,980 --> 00:12:52,020 and why that leads to process improvement and optimization is 215 00:12:52,020 --> 00:12:55,060 making a lot of sense to me, which really empowers me to keep 216 00:12:55,060 --> 00:12:58,060 going on that journey. So thanks to Mark's journey and 217 00:12:58,060 --> 00:13:03,380 my journey converging, there was just all that that click. 218 00:13:03,730 --> 00:13:07,090 That fit, that kind of general understanding that allows you to 219 00:13:07,090 --> 00:13:09,410 have the confidence to keep working with that information. 220 00:13:09,970 --> 00:13:11,530 Hopefully that makes sense for everybody. 221 00:13:11,530 --> 00:13:12,850 I tend to ramble. Sorry. 222 00:13:13,290 --> 00:13:15,650 No, no. I think that everyone has that 223 00:13:15,770 --> 00:13:19,810 aha moment, right. If somebody who in your journey 224 00:13:19,810 --> 00:13:22,410 whether whether it's learning about project management or some 225 00:13:22,450 --> 00:13:26,090 other topic, there's somebody like Mark Weepel has been for 226 00:13:26,090 --> 00:13:29,330 you, Greg. There's somebody that has done 227 00:13:29,330 --> 00:13:31,730 that for people. And I think when you talk about 228 00:13:31,730 --> 00:13:35,620 that click moment, I'm glad that you're able to visualize and 229 00:13:35,620 --> 00:13:40,700 actually see what Mark has been teaching you and seeing it now 230 00:13:40,780 --> 00:13:43,260 across some of the projects that you've had to deal with, which 231 00:13:43,260 --> 00:13:45,140 is I think that's such a great moment. 232 00:13:45,140 --> 00:13:49,460 It's such a, it's such a a wonderful time for somebody who 233 00:13:49,460 --> 00:13:52,740 really is, is is interested and passionate about learning about 234 00:13:52,740 --> 00:13:55,620 something when that starts to happen and that starts to come 235 00:13:55,620 --> 00:13:59,380 to fruitions. And so Greg, how have you taken 236 00:13:59,380 --> 00:14:03,300 this this methodology and and that thinking process and how 237 00:14:03,300 --> 00:14:06,820 has that evolved since like that aha moment? 238 00:14:07,540 --> 00:14:11,460 I think what I'm starting to look for and understand it's 239 00:14:11,460 --> 00:14:13,740 really interesting. This might be coming from left 240 00:14:13,740 --> 00:14:19,020 field, but this is actually a great way to avoid being stuck 241 00:14:19,020 --> 00:14:24,060 or staying stuck if everything is a project and. 242 00:14:24,660 --> 00:14:27,740 We learn how and and Mark could speak to this. 243 00:14:27,740 --> 00:14:33,100 We learn how to check, change, and improve our behaviors. 244 00:14:33,940 --> 00:14:38,420 Then we can in fact stay on a path of progress. 245 00:14:38,900 --> 00:14:41,100 And it it starts to get really lofty. 246 00:14:41,100 --> 00:14:43,620 At that point, and I'm, I'm really serious. 247 00:14:43,660 --> 00:14:47,540 It's everywhere. If I'm stuck on anything, I can 248 00:14:47,540 --> 00:14:50,620 just stop for a moment and say, is being stuck on this going to 249 00:14:50,620 --> 00:14:52,900 help me move forward? The answer is no. 250 00:14:53,440 --> 00:14:55,920 And what should I do with it? How can I move forward? 251 00:14:56,120 --> 00:14:59,200 One of the things Mark taught me in some of the different 252 00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:02,480 materials and some of the discussions we've had is and you 253 00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:05,000 and I talked about this as well. And when we're working on 254 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:07,800 projects and we're trying to deliver projects, that's exactly 255 00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:09,840 what we're trying to do. There are a lot of things that 256 00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:13,960 can come up that are not that. In other words, we get into a 257 00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:16,230 meeting. Mark likes the philosophy of the 258 00:15:16,230 --> 00:15:18,630 standup meeting because it eliminates all the other 259 00:15:18,630 --> 00:15:21,310 meetings and it keeps people moving and you don't have enough 260 00:15:21,310 --> 00:15:24,590 time to stop and say, Oh well, and did this and that. 261 00:15:24,910 --> 00:15:29,270 Mark did this and that. None of that has any possible 262 00:15:29,270 --> 00:15:32,550 benefit. So when you're talking about 263 00:15:32,790 --> 00:15:38,270 execution excellence, it's about the pursuit of improving your 264 00:15:38,270 --> 00:15:41,470 process, which means you have to learn how to ignore things, not 265 00:15:41,470 --> 00:15:46,050 recklessly, but practically. And can I speak? 266 00:15:46,290 --> 00:15:47,890 Can I speak to that? Absolutely. 267 00:15:49,610 --> 00:15:56,490 Well, the idea of visual project management and the stand up 268 00:15:56,490 --> 00:16:00,890 meetings, it's not an old idea. It's been around forever and 269 00:16:00,890 --> 00:16:05,970 ever. It's just people that don't use 270 00:16:05,970 --> 00:16:08,490 it enough in project management, right? 271 00:16:08,490 --> 00:16:11,300 So. You know a lot of people will 272 00:16:11,300 --> 00:16:14,820 misuse their meetings, right? They'll have a project meeting, 273 00:16:15,020 --> 00:16:19,140 and what they'll do in the meeting is tell you about the 274 00:16:19,140 --> 00:16:24,060 problem that they have or tell them tell you about. 275 00:16:24,060 --> 00:16:26,940 Where they are. You know what's the progress or 276 00:16:27,260 --> 00:16:29,380 you know what did I accomplish and. 277 00:16:29,580 --> 00:16:33,380 That sort of thing and. Really for solid execution you 278 00:16:33,380 --> 00:16:38,740 have to change that conversation from what have I done and what 279 00:16:38,740 --> 00:16:44,950 is the problem. To who owns what is the problem, 280 00:16:44,950 --> 00:16:48,150 who owns it and what is the action associated with that, 281 00:16:48,310 --> 00:16:50,590 right. So you're always looking there, 282 00:16:50,590 --> 00:16:55,830 you're always changing the team from the rear view to a forward 283 00:16:55,830 --> 00:16:59,190 look always, right. So and if you look at the 284 00:16:59,190 --> 00:17:01,790 different levels in the execution inturing model at 285 00:17:01,790 --> 00:17:05,569 different levels of management. How far in the future you talk 286 00:17:05,569 --> 00:17:10,210 about is going to be different. So for somebody who's writing a 287 00:17:10,210 --> 00:17:14,650 code or you know doing a design or something, you know that that 288 00:17:14,650 --> 00:17:19,569 future may only be a few days. But if I'm a department head, 289 00:17:19,970 --> 00:17:23,369 you know that future is going to be a month, two months and if 290 00:17:23,369 --> 00:17:25,810 I'm a business unit manager, well, it's going to be six 291 00:17:25,810 --> 00:17:29,650 months, right. So you know these the idea of 292 00:17:29,650 --> 00:17:32,810 the. Constructive collaboration, I 293 00:17:32,810 --> 00:17:36,490 call it collaborative execution. The collaborative execution 294 00:17:36,490 --> 00:17:42,010 piece is really about talking about who's got the ball, what 295 00:17:42,130 --> 00:17:45,050 is the play we're going to run and that's the IT, That's it. 296 00:17:45,250 --> 00:17:48,770 If there's a problem when you need to do analysis, OK, you 297 00:17:48,970 --> 00:17:53,010 take that offline because this meeting is about assigning 298 00:17:53,010 --> 00:17:56,810 action, not reporting progress, you know, and you can report 299 00:17:56,810 --> 00:17:58,850 progress at any time. You don't need a meeting for 300 00:17:58,850 --> 00:18:00,700 that. You know, you can solve a 301 00:18:00,700 --> 00:18:02,340 problem you don't need. You know, usually when we're 302 00:18:02,340 --> 00:18:04,620 solving a problem, I don't need 13 people. 303 00:18:04,620 --> 00:18:08,260 I need 2. And so one of the things that I 304 00:18:08,260 --> 00:18:11,060 teach people about project execution is to make your 305 00:18:11,060 --> 00:18:14,700 project meetings about the future, never about the past. 306 00:18:14,700 --> 00:18:17,620 Unless you're having, you know, unless you're doing a deep dive 307 00:18:17,620 --> 00:18:22,060 on, you know, an analysis on a project that you just completed. 308 00:18:23,100 --> 00:18:25,580 Sort of like I liken it to, you know. 309 00:18:25,620 --> 00:18:26,900 Football I like. The NFL. 310 00:18:27,740 --> 00:18:30,020 You know those guys in the huddle, they're not going, oh 311 00:18:30,500 --> 00:18:34,060 man, you were out of position and you dropped the ball and oh, 312 00:18:34,140 --> 00:18:35,660 you missed that. That's not what they're talking 313 00:18:35,660 --> 00:18:37,460 about. They're saying here's the play 314 00:18:37,460 --> 00:18:39,540 we're going to run. Don't forget about that guy over 315 00:18:39,540 --> 00:18:42,060 there. Let's go, you know, and very 316 00:18:42,060 --> 00:18:45,460 little time. So you know, of course my team, 317 00:18:45,460 --> 00:18:46,740 you know we. Call them huddles. 318 00:18:46,980 --> 00:18:49,220 A lot of people call them huddles because it's just play 319 00:18:49,220 --> 00:18:50,660 call, right? And that's. 320 00:18:51,060 --> 00:18:53,420 The project manager is the play caller. 321 00:18:54,740 --> 00:18:59,060 Typically a project manager doesn't own anything except the 322 00:18:59,060 --> 00:19:00,420 project. And so. 323 00:19:00,420 --> 00:19:05,860 His job is to call the play. So yeah, so that you're 324 00:19:05,860 --> 00:19:08,300 absolutely right. If it's not, if it's a concern 325 00:19:08,300 --> 00:19:10,460 in the past, that's a different meeting to have. 326 00:19:11,100 --> 00:19:14,460 Not with the team. And. 327 00:19:14,660 --> 00:19:16,340 It's sorry you let me get on my soapbox. 328 00:19:16,420 --> 00:19:20,100 You no, I mean you you you kind of took the words out of my 329 00:19:20,100 --> 00:19:21,860 mouth. There's a definite sports 330 00:19:21,860 --> 00:19:24,860 analogy there and in that process and that thinking right 331 00:19:24,860 --> 00:19:28,220 and and as soon as you said that there was my tiny aha moment of 332 00:19:28,700 --> 00:19:31,740 this is a lot like football and it it is right. 333 00:19:31,740 --> 00:19:35,660 Like they they they they can only watch so much tape on the 334 00:19:35,660 --> 00:19:38,860 other team and know enough about the team. 335 00:19:38,860 --> 00:19:42,830 But when you enter that game it's a whole new playing field 336 00:19:42,830 --> 00:19:47,270 and with every play to your point it's just about that play 337 00:19:47,270 --> 00:19:50,830 and how do we get forward progress and essentially yes 338 00:19:50,830 --> 00:19:53,350 everybody wants to win the game. The team is going to want to win 339 00:19:53,350 --> 00:19:54,910 the game. You know that's in the future. 340 00:19:54,910 --> 00:19:58,310 So you're always looking ahead but you're never looking behind 341 00:19:58,310 --> 00:20:00,510 in terms of Oh well we that we screwed that play up. 342 00:20:00,630 --> 00:20:03,710 You know, like, let's try that. You're not doing that during the 343 00:20:03,710 --> 00:20:06,910 game, so absolutely click for me as you're going through that 344 00:20:06,910 --> 00:20:09,070 analogy. And I think going back to Greg's 345 00:20:09,070 --> 00:20:11,590 earlier point, there's also life philosophies and what you're 346 00:20:11,590 --> 00:20:14,590 teaching here, Mark, in terms of how you can, even in your 347 00:20:14,590 --> 00:20:17,990 everyday life, check yourself. Am I progressing? 348 00:20:17,990 --> 00:20:19,750 If I'm not okay, What do I have to do? 349 00:20:19,750 --> 00:20:22,590 What's the action I have to do to keep going, Keep moving 350 00:20:22,590 --> 00:20:23,630 forward. So go ahead. 351 00:20:23,630 --> 00:20:27,760 I interrupted you. I think, I just, I think I got 352 00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:29,760 in my soapbox and said everything I want to say about 353 00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:33,720 that wonderful, wonderful. Well, I know that Greg has 354 00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:38,400 mentioned a story about is it the Goldrat Institute and the 355 00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:41,000 Goal. Yeah, OK, How? 356 00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:45,440 Yeah, I told him this story, and I also warned him that. 357 00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:50,800 So I told you that I worked. I started off at manufacturing 358 00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:53,760 and my background was scheduling. 359 00:20:54,890 --> 00:20:58,450 So I. Was designing and implementing. 360 00:20:58,730 --> 00:21:02,410 Scheduling systems for manufacturing companies. 361 00:21:03,410 --> 00:21:10,650 And in about 19. 86 We can edit that part out. 362 00:21:11,290 --> 00:21:17,930 That's the year I read the book. A long time ago I was, I was 363 00:21:19,050 --> 00:21:22,210 working in this plant and I was the materials manager and I 364 00:21:22,410 --> 00:21:25,490 reported to the GM. And he called me, His office 365 00:21:25,490 --> 00:21:28,290 said, hey Mark, I want you to go down to Brenham, TX. 366 00:21:28,890 --> 00:21:30,730 Our sister went down there and they're doing something with 367 00:21:30,730 --> 00:21:32,530 scheduling and I don't know what it is, but they're making a 368 00:21:32,530 --> 00:21:33,970 whole lot of money. Go down there and find out what 369 00:21:33,970 --> 00:21:36,050 it is and bring it back. So. 370 00:21:36,170 --> 00:21:39,650 I flew down to Brenham, TX and, you know, it turns out that they 371 00:21:39,650 --> 00:21:42,090 were working with the Goldrat Institute. 372 00:21:43,570 --> 00:21:46,810 And. I knew the guy that he was 373 00:21:46,810 --> 00:21:50,490 working with because I I was in charge of the local Apex chapter 374 00:21:50,490 --> 00:21:53,770 and I had them come in to Tulsa and give a presentation, and he 375 00:21:53,770 --> 00:21:56,890 gave me a copy of the gold. So I, you know, I've got the 376 00:21:56,890 --> 00:21:59,410 original 1984 version of the heroin. 377 00:21:59,810 --> 00:22:04,050 Yes. Anyway, so I said, Oh yeah, 378 00:22:04,050 --> 00:22:05,450 yeah. So I called about my friend Don, 379 00:22:05,450 --> 00:22:08,290 the botany at the Gold Rings and dude, and I said, hey, what are 380 00:22:08,330 --> 00:22:10,610 you doing this stuff with our sister plant what we want to do. 381 00:22:10,610 --> 00:22:14,570 And so he. We came to our plant and taught 382 00:22:14,570 --> 00:22:17,010 us and I was like, Oh yeah, okay, great. 383 00:22:17,010 --> 00:22:21,210 So we just implemented it and the throughput went up 20% and 384 00:22:21,210 --> 00:22:24,530 we wiped out our backlog in the space of about 8 weeks. 385 00:22:24,890 --> 00:22:28,690 And my. Phone stopped ringing and I left 386 00:22:28,690 --> 00:22:32,410 that job and I went to work with the Gold Red Institute and Ellie 387 00:22:32,410 --> 00:22:35,370 Goldrad and Donna Watney and a lot of other really smart people 388 00:22:35,370 --> 00:22:40,250 and worked with Ellie. Until about 92, of course. 389 00:22:40,370 --> 00:22:42,170 You know, we stayed in contact until his death. 390 00:22:42,170 --> 00:22:44,850 It wasn't, you know, we're not enemies or anything, but I 391 00:22:44,890 --> 00:22:47,610 wasn't involved in his business and he wasn't involved in mine. 392 00:22:48,370 --> 00:22:54,610 But he taught me a lot. He taught me a lot about using 393 00:22:54,610 --> 00:23:00,450 cause and effect and checking your assumptions. 394 00:23:01,370 --> 00:23:04,970 And of course, you know, he started this critical chain 395 00:23:05,170 --> 00:23:09,360 thing which. Has morphed over time and I've 396 00:23:09,360 --> 00:23:15,560 incorporated critical chain into the execution maturity model. 397 00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:21,520 But what I found was it that you know the the technical load to 398 00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:25,200 do critical chain in some respects is is a lot because you 399 00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:28,040 have to think, you have to change your thinking and you 400 00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:29,560 also have to change your behaviors. 401 00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:32,680 And I say, well, I'll just. We'll start with the behaviors 402 00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:33,640 and make sure. You can do the. 403 00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:36,000 Behaviors and then we'll add in the fancy stuff later. 404 00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:39,480 So I don't know is that the story that I was supposed to 405 00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:43,440 tell? I have so many I can tell, I can 406 00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:45,640 tell the story. I'm meeting Ellie in South Korea 407 00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:49,520 one time, you know, he was on the, he was on the same, the 408 00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:53,560 same platform. I was meeting in the green room, 409 00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:55,480 meeting in the green room in Seoul, you know? 410 00:23:56,240 --> 00:24:00,920 I have to tell you, I think that story is great, but it's for me. 411 00:24:01,660 --> 00:24:03,740 For and I don't know if I I don't think you and I got a 412 00:24:03,740 --> 00:24:06,180 chance to talk about this. But Mark and I talked about it 413 00:24:06,700 --> 00:24:10,140 for a while. I read the goal when I was very 414 00:24:10,140 --> 00:24:15,260 very young because somebody sent it home with my mother and said 415 00:24:16,940 --> 00:24:20,580 I understand your son's interested in business and he 416 00:24:20,580 --> 00:24:24,300 has a a mind towards an interesting consulting bring him 417 00:24:24,300 --> 00:24:25,860 this book and tell him to keep it. 418 00:24:26,260 --> 00:24:27,700 And I got it. I opened it. 419 00:24:27,700 --> 00:24:31,330 I had a note from her coworker. And I read it cover to cover, 420 00:24:32,690 --> 00:24:35,970 and it was so impactful. And when I brought it up to Mark 421 00:24:36,810 --> 00:24:39,810 and he said, yeah, I know him. Yeah, I've worked with him. 422 00:24:39,810 --> 00:24:42,490 Yeah, This, this, this. And I was like, wow, what a 423 00:24:42,490 --> 00:24:44,490 small world. And now he's telling me about 424 00:24:45,130 --> 00:24:48,010 meeting him on a platform in South Korea. 425 00:24:48,010 --> 00:24:50,330 I mean, it really is a small world. 426 00:24:50,330 --> 00:24:51,930 But it's a, it's a brilliant book. 427 00:24:51,930 --> 00:24:55,610 And I just like how Mark's able to kind of explain it and make 428 00:24:55,610 --> 00:24:58,210 it so relatable, because that was. 429 00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:00,200 Why the book was so powerful to me? 430 00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:01,840 It's where I learned about a bottleneck. 431 00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:05,160 What is a bottleneck? And I hung on to it the moment I 432 00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:06,720 learned it for the rest of my life. 433 00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:12,320 So it's really good stuff. And it applies to projects, you 434 00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:15,880 know, because there's always, there's always a constraint in 435 00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:19,960 in the project, there's always, you know, the projects are 436 00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:24,840 different from manufacturing in that you know you're you're. 437 00:25:25,380 --> 00:25:27,980 The bottleneck is always moving, right, because you're shifting 438 00:25:27,980 --> 00:25:31,900 resources all the time, right. So you're you're always having 439 00:25:31,900 --> 00:25:34,780 to do that. And I've incorporated that 440 00:25:34,780 --> 00:25:38,420 aspect into the visual viewpoint, visual project 441 00:25:38,420 --> 00:25:42,020 management process. It's in the second tier of the 442 00:25:43,140 --> 00:25:46,180 project execution and trade model because what we want 443 00:25:46,180 --> 00:25:48,300 people to do is we want people to go and chase those 444 00:25:48,300 --> 00:25:51,140 bottlenecks and break them. You know, I I worked with 445 00:25:51,380 --> 00:25:54,380 somebody one time and his philosophy. 446 00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:55,960 He told me something and he said. 447 00:25:56,280 --> 00:26:00,480 You know, every day. Or every week when I'm running a 448 00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:06,200 project, I want to know what can I do to go faster, what can I do 449 00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:08,640 to speed this project up? You know, obviously without 450 00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:11,800 sacrificing, you know, the other constraints that you have in 451 00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:14,480 projects. But this philosophy was every 452 00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:16,360 day I'm going to come to work and I'm going to find out how to 453 00:26:16,360 --> 00:26:18,840 go faster. And that was really impactful 454 00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:21,460 for me. It's so important that I 455 00:26:21,460 --> 00:26:25,060 included it in our consulting practice and when we're teaching 456 00:26:25,060 --> 00:26:29,060 people how to how to execute projects, that is an element 457 00:26:30,300 --> 00:26:35,660 that we purposely teach people how to do that, how to find it, 458 00:26:35,660 --> 00:26:37,620 how to chase it and do it systematic. 459 00:26:39,340 --> 00:26:43,900 Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I think what's resonating in 460 00:26:43,900 --> 00:26:48,380 this, in this story, that kind of being the third party in 461 00:26:48,380 --> 00:26:53,620 this, in this duo here is, is is picking up on is there's just so 462 00:26:53,620 --> 00:26:58,340 much that you you don't realize that you've impacted Mark. 463 00:26:58,580 --> 00:27:03,060 I mean, just listening to Greg's story alone, this is one person 464 00:27:03,460 --> 00:27:07,580 who has read something that you've written and is telling 465 00:27:07,580 --> 00:27:12,380 you that it's impacted him and impacted him in such a way that 466 00:27:12,380 --> 00:27:15,740 it continues to influence the way he sees Business Today. 467 00:27:16,450 --> 00:27:21,890 And I'm only just meeting you and I know that I could probably 468 00:27:22,090 --> 00:27:26,650 extend this podcast for another 24 hours to just pick your brain 469 00:27:26,650 --> 00:27:29,770 about every little nugget that you gave us today. 470 00:27:30,170 --> 00:27:33,490 But what I I think just from the outside looking in, I'm trying 471 00:27:33,490 --> 00:27:37,370 to say is that just in what you've already published and put 472 00:27:37,370 --> 00:27:40,890 out there for new project managers, mature project 473 00:27:40,890 --> 00:27:44,250 managers, project managers who are looking to learn something 474 00:27:44,250 --> 00:27:47,560 new, this is incredible work that you put out there and 475 00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:48,880 you've shared with our community. 476 00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:52,480 And I think for that reason, I just want to say thank you in 477 00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:55,360 terms of what you've been able to just teach us in the short 478 00:27:55,360 --> 00:27:57,440 time that we've chatted on this podcast. 479 00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:03,160 And with that, before we get going on another topic, I'm 480 00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:06,760 going to have to just click pause here because I think we've 481 00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:09,800 left the audience with enough in terms of something to think 482 00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:13,200 about in the execution model. I'm hoping that they'll come 483 00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:15,760 back with questions and maybe, Mark, we can bring you back on 484 00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:19,000 to answer those questions. But is there anything right now 485 00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:23,000 that you're working on that you want to share with the project 486 00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:26,000 management community? And also, do you have any 487 00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:28,360 advice? Because we have an audience who 488 00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:32,120 ranges from people who are just starting out, people who have 489 00:28:32,120 --> 00:28:36,200 been there for a long time. Any advice that you want to, you 490 00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:37,960 know, give to the community as well. 491 00:28:39,580 --> 00:28:41,540 Oh gosh, put me on the spot here. 492 00:28:43,540 --> 00:28:49,020 So what I do? Yeah, First of all, I'm super 493 00:28:49,020 --> 00:28:51,340 appreciative and happy to be a contribution. 494 00:28:51,940 --> 00:28:53,940 That's kind of what floats my boat. 495 00:28:53,980 --> 00:28:56,740 You know, I don't do this for my for ego. 496 00:28:56,740 --> 00:28:59,060 You know, I'm trying to help other people and that's why I 497 00:28:59,140 --> 00:29:01,980 that's why I put this work out there and I thank you for that, 498 00:29:02,620 --> 00:29:03,700 so. I think. 499 00:29:03,780 --> 00:29:09,560 The most. What I would say is that for any 500 00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:16,280 project manager and any manager of project managers is to 501 00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:28,840 consider execution as a process equal to importance as preparing 502 00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:32,920 a good plan and getting stakeholder by you and building 503 00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:35,680 your budget and doing your risk analysis and all those other 504 00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:39,580 things. There's not a lot out there for 505 00:29:39,580 --> 00:29:43,580 people for for project managers. So I wrote it. 506 00:29:45,100 --> 00:29:49,180 But you want to consider this execution is a process and it 507 00:29:49,180 --> 00:29:51,580 isn't. Let's have a meeting and look at 508 00:29:51,580 --> 00:29:53,340 the schedule that is not the process. 509 00:29:53,940 --> 00:29:57,100 So that's I think that's the main thing that I would want to 510 00:29:57,100 --> 00:30:03,790 say is execution is. A technique it's a it's a 511 00:30:04,350 --> 00:30:07,950 process that is critical to the succession success of your 512 00:30:07,950 --> 00:30:10,230 project. And you can have a great plan, 513 00:30:11,070 --> 00:30:13,070 but you won't because nobody makes great plans. 514 00:30:13,790 --> 00:30:17,310 You can have a great plan, but if you don't know how to drive 515 00:30:17,310 --> 00:30:20,630 execution, that great plan doesn't kind of matter. 516 00:30:24,550 --> 00:30:26,590 My wheels are turning. I don't think you could see it 517 00:30:26,590 --> 00:30:29,870 in my face, but my mind is blown by what you've talked about 518 00:30:29,870 --> 00:30:31,790 today. And I have so much that I want 519 00:30:31,790 --> 00:30:33,870 to think about after we finish this recording. 520 00:30:33,870 --> 00:30:37,910 Because from somebody who's taken, you know, a master's 521 00:30:37,910 --> 00:30:40,630 program in project management, somebody who's read a few books 522 00:30:40,630 --> 00:30:44,350 on it, who's who has colleagues who, you know, they, they follow 523 00:30:44,350 --> 00:30:46,390 certain methodologies and processes. 524 00:30:46,870 --> 00:30:49,630 This is one that really flips a lot of the things that you're 525 00:30:49,630 --> 00:30:52,940 taught as a project manager. It flips it around. 526 00:30:53,020 --> 00:30:56,740 It really does it, it, it and and and it's a great perspective 527 00:30:56,740 --> 00:31:00,580 to have in my, in my opinion, of just learning about this in 528 00:31:00,580 --> 00:31:04,940 terms of exactly what you just said, Mark, there's so much you 529 00:31:04,940 --> 00:31:08,540 can plan and your project can still go awry. 530 00:31:08,540 --> 00:31:12,700 So why not put the emphasis on the part of the process where 531 00:31:12,700 --> 00:31:16,420 you're actually doing something and progressing and and doing 532 00:31:16,420 --> 00:31:18,180 the work to get the project done. 533 00:31:18,540 --> 00:31:22,140 I love that idea. I'm looking forward to kind of 534 00:31:22,460 --> 00:31:25,420 ending this recording and going on to your website and reading 535 00:31:25,420 --> 00:31:28,220 your ebooks and and getting all your books to, to learn more 536 00:31:28,220 --> 00:31:30,420 about this. But that's just my level. 537 00:31:30,420 --> 00:31:32,540 Excite of excitement after having chatted. 538 00:31:32,820 --> 00:31:36,300 It's all my all my stuff is free, except the books of course 539 00:31:36,300 --> 00:31:37,780 you have to go to Amazon to get those. 540 00:31:37,780 --> 00:31:41,300 But all my white papers and stuff like that, it's all three 541 00:31:41,300 --> 00:31:43,620 in the website projectsinlesstime.com. 542 00:31:43,820 --> 00:31:47,180 So I was going to say control is an illusion. 543 00:31:48,940 --> 00:31:52,040 I like that one. I like that one quite a bit 544 00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:53,480 actually. I might write that down on my 545 00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:55,960 wall. So all right. 546 00:31:56,320 --> 00:31:59,680 Well, that will do it for Mark, Greg and I and this installment 547 00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:03,240 of the Everyday PM podcast. Mark and Greg, you both have 548 00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:05,320 been wonderful. The time has flown by. 549 00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:09,240 So I really do appreciate your time today to share your stories 550 00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:11,280 and and your insights with our audience. 551 00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:13,720 Mark, let's start with you. I know you shared where your 552 00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:16,520 books can be found, but if folks want to continue the 553 00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:19,600 conversation with you, is there a way that they can find you 554 00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:22,170 online? Yeah, they can that, you know 555 00:32:22,170 --> 00:32:24,650 I'm on Twitter at at Mark Weckel. 556 00:32:24,850 --> 00:32:27,810 You know just one word. I'm also, you know you can reach 557 00:32:27,810 --> 00:32:31,850 me on Lincoln or those are the two. 558 00:32:31,890 --> 00:32:34,050 Those are the two social channels that I've used 559 00:32:34,050 --> 00:32:37,010 professionally. And of course my website is 560 00:32:37,010 --> 00:32:40,050 projects in ustime.com and there's an e-mail link there. 561 00:32:40,050 --> 00:32:44,090 So you can think that because right here because that's the 562 00:32:44,090 --> 00:32:47,450 way I work. Mark, thank you so much. 563 00:32:47,490 --> 00:32:53,850 And Greg, how about yourself? Well, for me, you can find me on 564 00:32:53,850 --> 00:32:57,090 LinkedIn, Greg Christensen, and then you'll see the Project Hub 565 00:32:57,090 --> 00:32:59,290 logo and you can figure out if it's me. 566 00:32:59,410 --> 00:33:03,370 And then the alternative would be to go to projecthub.com and 567 00:33:03,370 --> 00:33:07,210 actually sign up to get access to the Project hub.com platform. 568 00:33:07,610 --> 00:33:10,570 And then you get that information, typically send a 569 00:33:10,570 --> 00:33:12,650 registration link so somebody can get in there. 570 00:33:12,650 --> 00:33:15,250 But that's another way to get in touch with me because I kind of 571 00:33:15,250 --> 00:33:17,850 see all those things happening and either way. 572 00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:20,640 Anybody that needs some help, wants to chat or anything like 573 00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:25,440 that, just reach out and you all can find me on LinkedIn as well 574 00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:29,160 as well as the everydaypm.com. Just a quick plug for our 575 00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:31,320 podcast and video version of this. 576 00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:35,200 Support the Everyday PM Podcast by giving us a 5 star review on 577 00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:37,880 any of the podcasting platforms you were listening in on. 578 00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:41,400 We are on Apple Podcast, Google Play, you name it, we're 579 00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:43,720 probably there, Spotify, all those good things. 580 00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:47,440 And you can also find a video version of this on my YouTube 581 00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:50,320 channel, YouTube dot com forward, slash and Canthia. 582 00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:53,400 Make sure to leave us a great comment, ask some questions, 583 00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:56,520 we'd love to get back to you like and subscribe to the 584 00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:59,920 channel. And I think that will do it for 585 00:33:59,920 --> 00:34:02,880 all of us, all three of us today in this installment of the 586 00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:05,680 Everyday PM Podcast. Thank you both so much for 587 00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:09,159 joining me and until next time, take care.