Welcome to the Everyday PM Podcast, the podcast where we
discuss project management principles for your everyday
life. My name is Anne Campia and I'm a
certified Project slash Program Manager with over a decade of
experience working in various industries.
Healthcare, retail, consumer goods, tech, marketing, you name
it. I probably have been have worked
in that industry before. I am so excited to welcome
Giuliano to the podcast who is a project management executive and
entrepreneur with 15 years of experience across ecommerce,
fintech, travel and loyalty industry.
So, Giuliano, you might have me be and the amount of industries
that you have worked. Across as well, but thank you so
much for joining us on the podcast today.
We are definitely going to spotlight a lot of what you work
on and what you do. But before we get to that, for
those in our audience who have not met you yet, please take a
brief moment to introduce yourself.
For sure. First off, thank you and for
having me on the Everyday PM. I'm an avid listener.
So glad to finally be a guest speaker on your show as well.
So. A little bit about me.
So I began my, what I call, relationship with project
management, I would say over the last 15 years or so.
And I kind of focused on the business transformation side of
things. So you can think of that as
basically large enterprise level type of projects.
That's where my passion tends to lie.
And and and if you think about it, most PM's kind of get drawn
into the profession because you work on things you've never
really done before, right? It could be a new product, a new
process, a new service. So that's kind of what drove me
into the industry and it kind of haven't looked back since.
Awesome. And you're exactly right.
And we've had probably multiple conversations throughout the
life of this podcast around how either people fell into being a
project manager or they were actually trained and went to
school and and educated themselves before they picked up
that role. But it sounds like you got a
little bit of both happening and in your journey to where you're
at today. So thank you so much for sharing
your professional journey with us.
So let's dive into you talked about being passionate about
enterprisewide PMO. And I know that a lot of folks
who are probably starting in project management might not
even know what that means. So can we break it down for them
just kind of at a basic level, what are the differences between
what you do and your role versus, you know, somebody who
might just be starting out? Yeah, for sure.
So I like to look at, I like to think of the project management
role as a whole. It's really going through some
sort of disruption right now. So if you look at traditional
project managers, they're tend to focus mostly on the project
outcomes as a whole. And then this is regardless if
they have a PMO that they're reporting under or not.
And what's different about enterprise level projects is
you're kind of looking at it from a global scale.
So you're really looking at what the strategy is of the company
you're working for. And it doesn't have to just be
the fiscal year, doesn't have to be just 2023 for example.
It's really looking at a couple years ahead basically whatever
the company is willing to share with you, it's kind of you being
able to ingest that and kind of apply it to what you're working
on. So I really like to think of it
as focusing on business outcomes and the success criteria of the
business. Versus just trying to check off
scope, budget and quality like traditional projects do.
I love that you portrayed in such a way that is is very
practical and you kind of outlined with logical steps of
how to get there. Now when I think about it, I
wonder about how do you make that switch, right.
So you could be doing the tactical, you could be very task
driven looking at you know, jobs on an individual basis.
But for you and your journey, Juliano, when did you realize
that you were making that switch for yourself in terms of
focusing more on the strategic initiatives as part of your PMO
versus, you know, the tactical kind of daytoday work that you
probably were doing when you started out?
Yeah, It's actually a really great question.
And I had a pretty interesting career, at least a little bit on
the latter part of my career. So I was definitely one that
just focused on the product, the project level initially.
But one pivot I made around 2018 was actually left the project
management world for a little bit and actually took on an
operations role for a startup for one of the largest companies
in Canada. And that was and you can think
of that as leading teams such as customer support delivery, back
office operations. And while that was a pretty
crazy pivot, one thing I did notice was it really gave me a
much more holistic view of execution as a whole.
And that's how I treat project management.
It's really executing on the strategy.
So that's when the light bulb really clicked inside of me.
It's like, hey, we're not just. Ticking boxes, we're not just
making sure the project is always green.
We're actually trying to create some outcomes that's beneficial
for a company or an organization.
So that was kind of the light bulb moment that I had back in
2018. I love that.
It's such a beautiful journey. And when that clicks for you,
it's kind of like, right. Everything that I was doing, the
grind that was happening on all these projects, the day-to-day,
the nitty gritty, working directly with the project teams,
It all starts to make sense when you start to connect it to
strategy and the overall vision. I like that you said you took a
departure from being a, you know, project manager by title.
I mean, I still think when you're in operations you're
still kind of doing project management stuff.
Yeah. If I'm not mistaken, I'm in that
role now and I still feel like I'm practicing project
management. But I think that departure alone
was something that allowed you to kind of gain perspective too.
And so I implore those that are listening.
When you think about your journey and you're trying to
figure out how to make that transition, I consider your
exposure to, to what you know about the company.
For example, let's say you are considering a long 10 years, 10
years somewhere. Try to expand your network, talk
to people, understand what am I doing on a daytoday and how does
that connect to strategy? And I, I think Giuliano, I
brought you on here because I also want to know how you see
that in your daytoday, right, in your role as PMO director.
I think that is your daytoday as you're thinking about strategy
on a daily basis. But for somebody who's kind of
just trying to tap into that and figure out, is this the journey
I want to make as a PM, You know, what does that look like?
And so I'm definitely interested in in you sharing that
perspective with our audience as well.
Of course, and I think it really also comes from the level of
leadership in the company you work for too.
Is is do they understand what a Pmo's role is or what the
project manager's role is? So having that buy in and
support at the top level does help immensely for project
managers who are just finding their way.
But there is things that you could do as well to really kind
of kick start the the implementation of strategy that
goes along with execution. And it's really just like you
said, I think you hit a lot of the points there.
It's really networking with people outside of your core
group. Start speaking with the
marketing department. Start speaking with the business
developers. Really figure out what the pain
points are in your organization. I think if you start treating it
with that perspective, I want to solve the pain points of the
business I'm working for. You're going to get much more
buy in from from people who don't really understand the the,
the total value of project management.
And that's kind of the approach I took was find out what where
people are really struggling, where they're having friction
either from a communication point of view and being able to
connect the dots. I think PM's are really good at
connecting the dots and it's just just sharing that across
the board. And and one more question around
your journey, because I'm just so curious about how you see
this because you went PM and then you went to an operations
role and that kind of back to PM, right?
How does that translate, how, how did that translate for you?
Do you feel that they were, they were kind of in the same
wheelhouse or did you have to kind of make some shifts to be
able to get into more of an operational role versus APM
role? Just curious about that.
Yeah, it's a great question. I feel we're all pretty much
accidental PM regardless of what we do.
You could be pretty much any role and it's really just taking
a series of processes and executing on them.
What's a little bit different on the operations front, it's it's
a lot of repeatable stuff. So you're continuously doing the
same things and you're kind of optimizing them.
So think more 6 Sigma type of type of a role, but there's a
lot of project management that could be applied to operations,
especially when you're working in a startup where everything
pretty much is new. And I think using that kind of
terminology and kind of using either predictive or agile,
whatever you want to kind of enforce the project, project
management could really be applied to any rule that's
awesome, definitely transferable skills.
And I I heard that and as you were describing kind of the the
differences between the two roles.
So I think for those that are listening, that's also helpful
to take note of is that there's a lot of transferable skills.
So if you find that you're on your own journey and you love
process improvement, maybe think about operations, right.
And then and consider what Giuliano's saying.
If you like kind of the creating and and the repetitive nature of
of some of the things that you can create and implement at an
organization to find efficiencies, then maybe that's
that's the role for you. But definitely kind of start to
be in tune with what you like about project management and
then you can find a path like Giuliano has.
So I I know when we were talking about the concept of this
episode, you shared with me a few tidbits around educational
initiatives that you're working on.
And so I think that really was obviously attractive to me in
the sense that I am also an educator on the side.
But I want to kind of start to go segue into that part of the
conversation around the educational initiatives that
you're working on and essentially what are you
launching? How does that translate to
project management, give us the whole spiel around and what's
going on in that world? Totally, yeah.
So one thing we noticed is from a context perspective, we were
noticing 2 things, at least I was noticing one.
Given the popularity of the PMO, we were starting to get a bunch
of requests for project work. So expertise of project
management, while that is a great problem to have overall,
we were starting to notice that we were becoming the bottleneck
in a lot of things. So and and that's something we
don't want and in any stretch of the imagination we want to be
able to execute efficiently. Which wasn't possible with the
with the demand currently there and two the level of requests
coming in kind of were all different flavors.
It was massive enterprise level stuff but there's also a lot of
little tiny stuff. And then speaking with my boss
who was who is the VP of Operations, she actually came up
with that with an idea that really sparked the interest in
me is why not teach this that the PM skill set to to to others
so they can actually run their own projects.
So effectively we're scaling project management without
increasing the head count, which is I thought a brilliant move.
Yeah, that's a mindblown moment for sure.
And it was really. Yeah.
And it was really us. So what we we kind of, I
basically took it and I ran with it.
So I we created a program called the PMO Collab and you can think
of it as a ten session interactive course where we
started a pilot last year anybody who was interested in
enrolling. And we basically took those core
competencies, it could be timeline management, could be
dealing with this difficult customers, it could be
stakeholder management, things like that.
And we started to teach that to the company and we split the
session up into two. So the first part of the session
is lecture format, where it was me and my team kind of doing a
PowerPoint, teaching others kind of the skill set.
And then the second part using Zoom or Google me or whatever we
we broke up into virtual teams and they kind of applied the
skill they learned to a mock project or mock scenario.
And if you Fast forward to today the the actual program became
massively popular. It's almost 20% of the
organization is a part of this collab now.
We actually created an additional level.
So we have kind of level ones, PM 101 and now we have a little
bit more of an advanced tactics type of thing.
And then just to create a little bit of a gamification to it as
well, we we do a final exam for the people who complete each of
the 10 sessions and if they pass it, we give them kind of an
honorary badge, they can kind of put in their e-mail signatures,
share on LinkedIn, things like that.
But the program has really been a massive success for us.
I if you're watching this video like my smile just like grew all
the way to this corners of my face that it is amazing.
That is incredible to hear such a great use case, such an
innovative and creative way to expand the PM knowledge without
to your point, without having to hire actual project managers.
And it's a great way to kind of share the knowledge but also
bring a new perspective to those who may or may not have
necessarily seen the value of what project management can do.
So I love that idea. I am probably gonna steal it.
No, I don't know, steals. Probably not the right word.
Maybe I'll borrow a few influences from what you just
shared. But I I love that idea and I
love that you're you shared that it's working out well and it's
being well received by the organization.
Yeah, totally. And and and just to kind of add
a little bit more to that because in terms of the
benefits, it's not just teaching people about PM, which is the
big core of it. And two, it's really getting
people to start talking with the same language as well.
So when we're working on a project and we're talking about
UAT or we're talking about scope or requirements, everybody kind
of understands right away what that is.
So less time focused on kind of getting alignment on the
terminology. More time focused on the actual
getting things done, which is the most important part of
project management And then three, which is actually a
downstream kind of importance that I find is we're actually
creating an active internal pipeline of potential project
managers in the organization. So whenever the need arises
where we have an additional head count, that opens up and the
person actually sees project management as a potential role
for them in the future. We already kind of trained them
where the stakes are really low so they can come in when they
hit the ground running instead of bringing in someone who you
potentially may or may not have a good culture fit.
I you it was that was perfect. You read my mind that was gonna
be. My question was did it then
start to motivate folks to wanna actually be project managers?
And it sounds like that is the case.
Or at least it gives them opportunity or pipeline to be
able to do so, which is which is also fantastic.
So were there any downsides to the program in terms of you
know, just everything that we do is always, you know, usually met
with some sort of opposition. Was there anything like that
that was happening as you're trying to stand this program up
or did it kind of execute pretty flawlessly for you?
I would say it was pretty flawlessly.
I would say the only I would say potential downside or or at
least early on was the opportunity cost of it, right.
It's it's it's not an easy undertaking to to do so it takes
up a lot of my time and my team's time and also each of the
participants has to dedicate a couple hours a month to to
attend these sessions. So a small investment overall,
but it's, it's something you have to get buying from
management and whatnot of each of, of the participants, sure.
I mean and again a project in itself, right.
So a good use case to also to train folks on is, is just the
creation of this actual program. I'm also curious about where you
are drawing the curriculum from. Are you are you teaching around
the organization's methodologies around project management or is
this kind of a broader perspective from the global PMI
or where where your sources coming from that you're training
folks on? Yeah, totally.
It's so we, we treat ourselves as kind of PM methodology
agnostic. So we don't really kind of go to
one versus the other. It's kind of what's the
project's. The first question we asked to
see the type of methodology to apply.
But yeah, you're 100% correct. It's really looking at it from a
kind of a global view. And and we have people, we have
scrum masters who attend, we have product product managers
attend. So we want to make it as broad
as possible and not focus too much on the terminology to kind
of constrain people. And I think that's a big thing
with a lot of PM's, right. It's being as collaborative as
possible versus kind of red tape, red tape, red tape.
Gotcha. Gotcha.
And how do you feel that this program has impacted your PMO?
Has it strengthen the the value of the PMOII would assume, but I
mean is there anything else that you kind of saw as a residual
impact that's happened with the PMO?
I think for the most part internally it's been very
impactful. So it gives our, it gives my
team specifically the opportunity to share their
expertise to the to the wider company.
So I think just the fulfillment of being a teacher versus just
executing all the time is a really great change of pace.
And they kind of asked me all the time when we're doing a new
session, like, could I lead this one?
Could I lead that one? Could I lead that topic?
So it's creating that environment of continuous
learning and continuous improvement, which I think is an
awesome thing to see. That's so great.
I love it so much. Again, grinning.
Again, just listening to this entire journey is amazing and
and I think a lot of folks will benefit from just hearing the
successes that you're seeing in the creation of this.
And it just came from that idea, right from your VPO, which is
great. And you, you went in and
executed everything. So I think Giuliano, I I'm
curious because we don't, it's rare that we have PMO directors
come on and be guests on on the podcast.
So in your role I don't know if you've been hearing about all
this chatter around PMO's are evolving and kind of how they're
they're kind of shifting and same thing with the role of
project manager. There's lots of conversation
around how we are project leaders or however you want to
you want to portray our roles today.
Do you have you heard of any of that chatter and and I promised
you I wouldn't ask you anything where I didn't think you would
have a response to this. But now I'm just curious, have
you heard any of that chatter and if you have, do you have a
perspective on on it and and where you think PMO's are going?
Yeah it's it's been on my mind quite often to be honest.
It's it's we're in a constant state of disruption, the project
management world in particular. So that's why I'm I'm really
encouraging my team and and the PMO within our organization to
focus more on the transformation side of things because
disruptions not just happening on a PMO level, it's happening
at A at a global level in a way and we want to be.
The kind of the engine that drives change and be change
leaders in a way. So that's kind of that's kind of
how I'm positioning the role when speaking to other people
within my organization. So I I I call ourselves change
agents, transformation leaders and project managers.
But I really want to get that message across that you could,
you could leverage us for a bunch of different ways.
But yeah, it's definitely a time where you we're going to have to
pivot. I think everyone's going to have
to pivot as as project managers and PMO leaders.
And really see what are ways that we could tap into to value
that's quite different than the traditional world that yeah,
that sounds fantastic. I think you're you're trying to
progress in the direction that the the water is flowing, right.
So you're you're trying to be a little bit ahead of that in fact
and then the way that you've responded to that question
because I think there's just a lot of organizations who are
struggling with adapting. And and that doesn't seem to be
your perspective at all which which is fantastic in in this
time where the environment is disruptive, it is changing and
we have to make a decision whether or not we are going to
evolve with that. And I, everybody who's
listening, I think that's such a great perspective to have to
focus on transformation, to learn all you can on change
management and all of those things that are becoming much
more relevant in this, in this day and age of PMO's where
you're not just kind of divvying out projects, you know, that's
kind of the old school way of looking at a PMO.
You become much more, it sounds like there's so many more
services that your PMO is offering.
That might not have been the case in the last five or even 10
years. Yeah, very much so.
And just another example of that is most PMO's, if you look at it
from a traditional sense, they kind of.
Put some red tape around. These are the type of tools you
have to use for the project. You have to use this scope,
document, et cetera. What we're doing is we're
building more of a list of of best practices.
You can use these tools if you want.
They're available for you company wide.
We're not going to force you to use them.
If they if you feel you have a better way of doing it, by all
means go ahead. So I think it's that
collaborative approach that PMOS have to start taking and be more
consider yourselves more a partner to other functions
versus this this overseeing overbearing entity which is
traditional, such a great point, such a great point.
Any other words of wisdom Giuliano, you want to leave with
our audience. I mean, I could probably kind of
nitpick and pick your brain about this this topic for for
hours, but I I think our time is up for today, but anything else
that you wanted to share? Yeah, of course.
I would just leave you with just embrace change.
I think that's very important as as PMO leaders, as project
managers embrace the change. With change comes opportunity
and and kind of a role with it be agile and IT be an agile
thinker and then it kind of use that to kind of shape where your
career is going to be and where your PMO is going to be.
I wish there was a day where we could work together.
I just. I feel like already, yes,
exactly. That is very true.
I think you never know. And we are essentially working
together on this episode and it's been truly an honor and a
pleasure to get to know you over this, the course of this
discussion. I think that you're doing such
great things for your organization.
And I I just think that if if I was on your team, I would just
be constantly passionate about what we're doing and and where
we're going. So thank you for sharing your
insights with our audience. Thank you for sharing that
amazing program that you have running at your organization.
I definitely am going to take some cues from what you guys are
doing as well. So folks want to continue the
conversation with you, Giuliano, on any of these topics that we
discussed today. Where can they find you online?
For sure you can either find me online on LinkedIn, you can just
look for my name and then find me there.
But I also recently started a substack publication called
Relentless Velocity where I talk about a lot of this stuff we
talked about today, business transformation and hyper growth.
And you can find me at relentlessvelocity.substack.com.
I will definitely make sure all the appropriate links to contact
you are available as well so that our everyday PM audience
can find you. You can also find me on LinkedIn
as well. If you want to continue the
conversation with me. While you're there, support the
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of this on my YouTube channel. You can see how big I was
grinning as Giuliani was going through his use case example
because I just think it's incredible.
Watch the video version of this on my YouTube channel
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So that will do it for Giuliano and I and this installment of
the Everyday PM Podcast. Thank you everybody for joining
us and until next time, take care.