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How isolated you think you are. 
You are not alone. 

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There is someone who is 
experiencing something similar 

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to what you're going through. 
No matter what you feel or how 

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unique or odd you feel, take a 
breath, especially in your 

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teenage years. 
Just know that it's going to get

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better. 
Trust me, we've all gone through

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those periods where especially 
in the teenage years where we 

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feel isolated, that we're odd 
man out, that no one understands

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what I'm going through. 
It takes time. 

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You've got to give yourself that
time. 

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Be patient with yourself. 
Be kind to yourself. 

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In this episode, the second-half
of my interview with Grandpa 

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Scott and Grandpa Bobby of the 
hit YouTube Channel 2 Gay 

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Grandpa's Travel, you were 
talking about your mother, 

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Bobby. 
You mentioned the organization 

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she was in involved with. 
Can you tell us a little bit 

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about it? 
It's right. 

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The Boulder County AIDS Project 
and what this is, is in Boulder,

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Co and they have been there for 
years and they're an outreach 

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program. 
They provide information for gay

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people or anybody living with 
AIDS. 

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They have a food bank that my 
mother helped run. 

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And for 26 years, for two or 
three days a week, my mom was 

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the volunteer receptionist at 
the front desk. 

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She would work the food bank. 
She would, she wasn't a 

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professional counselor, but she 
was just the ad hoc counselor 

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when typically, and of course, 
especially during the 80s and 

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early 90s, it was mostly young 
gay men who came into this 

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center and found my mom who 
became like a surrogate mother 

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to those who had, you know, had 
never had that relationship with

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their parent or who they had 
been cut off from their parent. 

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And it was very wonderful to see
how my mom grew because, you 

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know, having grown up, she grew 
up in a very traditional 

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Catholic household. 
And over the years, she 

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understood that love is love. 
And she when we were growing up,

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she was never a hugger. 
We were, it was a much more 

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rigid the 50s and the 60s. 
But as she grew older, she 

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became this amazing hugger and 
wanted to talk about feelings to

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the point where we used to joke 
amongst my brothers and sisters 

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that we wanted to shake her and 
say, what have you done with my 

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mother? 
This isn't the woman I grew up 

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with. 
And she just evolved to the 

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point where she was awarded 
Living Legend Award for the city

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of Boulder for all the work that
she did. 

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And when she passed away a few 
years ago, we spread her ashes 

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and part of her ashes are at the
Boulder County A's project. 

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We planted a rose Bush in her 
honor with a plaque and they 

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still keep it in to this day. 
She's still a treasured person 

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remembered there. 
And it just shows you you never 

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too old to grow and change. 
So I'll put a link not only to 

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your YouTube channel, but to a 
couple of other organizations 

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that can be helpful to people. 
You also mentioned P Fly. 

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Yes, my mom was a real active 
part of P Fly. 

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Just trying to encourage. 
She went to, you know, many 

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meetings in Boulder, you know, 
to encourage parents who are 

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having difficulty accepting 
their children and just to let 

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them know. 
Because, you know, after I had 

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come out and I had moved to San 
Francisco and met Scott and she 

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came to see us and she, you 
know, watched us interact with 

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our families and with our kids. 
And she really came to realize 

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that we were quite dull. 
We were very boring old married 

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couple just concerned with, you 
know, fixing up our house and. 

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And you know, where were the 
feather Boas? 

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We weren't in drag. 
We weren't. 

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We were chats. 
At. 

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We were just the most dullest 
couple you'd ever want to know. 

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And, you know, she would express
that to other parents who were 

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afraid their kids weren't going 
to have a full life or have the 

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life that they anticipated. 
To the point now where, you 

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know, we still pester our 
grandkids that, OK, just because

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you're lesbian, you're 
transgender doesn't mean you're 

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not going to give us great 
grandchildren. 

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You know, you're still on the 
hook. 

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So you see no pressure, no 
pressure of. 

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Course, not all moms and sisters
realize ahead of their son. 

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Some people are really sent into
a bit of a tailspin when someone

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in their family comes out. 
You were also mentioning people 

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around the world who are not in 
areas as receptive to gay people

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and we, Scott especially, had an
experience that we thought was 

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very touching. 
I get AI we always try to 

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respond to the comments in real 
time that we get on our YouTube 

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videos and I got this message 
from a young woman from Russia 

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and she's saying you don't know 
what this means to us. 

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She says we we we are legally 
called a terrorist organization 

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in Russia and she shared briefly
what was going on. 

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Any help you can do, please keep
it up. 

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And so I wanted to respond to 
her now mind you, this was 

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immediately so I clicked the 
reply button quickly sent the 

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reply that we're there anytime 
she and it was blocked already. 

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So they, they are like you 
mentioned, there are countries 

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and unfortunately some in the 
European Union that have, that 

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are just very cruel to their 
queer communities. 

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This podcast is listened to in 
over 100 countries. 

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In those hundred countries, 
there are still four or five 

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where homosexuality is 
punishable by death, and in 

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about half those countries, it's
still illegal. 

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Businesses need to be careful 
about where they hold corporate 

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events and where they send their
LGBTQ plus employees because not

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every place is safe. 
And it's hard now living in 

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America, to envision a place 
like Russia or Saudi Arabia 

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where you may be taking your 
life or certainly taking your 

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livelihood if anyone finds out 
about your sexual orientation. 

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And we travelled the world. 
But you know, I can easily say 

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we aren't going to Uganda 
anytime soon. 

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Yeah, well, and not, not hungry.
Yeah, we're not. 

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Frankly, we're. 
Not, yeah, I'm not going to 

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Buddha and I we know that there 
are many in the LGBT community 

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who go there. 
But like you say, everyone has 

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to take a little bit of a stand,
whatever they can, to stand for 

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our communities, to stand for 
human rights. 

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This just stands for some core 
values. 

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And that's that's how we feel 
about that particular country. 

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And when we travel, we never 
hide who we are. 

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We are. 
It's not like we're going around

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boasting. 
Of course we wear T-shirts that 

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say 2 gay grandpa's travel, so 
it's kind of a tip off. 

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But even before we had our 
channel, we would never hide who

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we are. 
We'd always refer to each other 

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as either my partner or in later
years, my husband. 

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And. 
We go into it expecting common 

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courtesy. 
We don't go into it demanding, 

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We don't go into it asking for 
permission. 

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We go into it just that of 
course you're going to accept me

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because I'm acting in a civil 
manner. 

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And we have never, ever, ever in
all of our travels, we've been 

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to more than two dozen countries
and 40 something states. 

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We have never been confronted 
with a negative reaction. 

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If people have something, they 
keep it to themselves. 

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But we've been very fortunate in
that regard, and that does make 

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us hopeful for the future. 
Yes. 

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I think though, on the caution 
side, there are some countries 

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that you've avoided wisely and 
there are some that you 

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mentioned, Uganda, Russia, that 
you know, really I, I would 

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advise you against wearing 2G 
grandpa T-shirts in those 

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countries. 
I mean. 

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What we going there? 
I would be cautious, there are 

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places that are still very 
dangerous for for gay men, 

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trans, lesbians around the 
world. 

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So as a wind down to on a more 
positive note, do you have 

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advice for any young people who 
here or abroad who may be 

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despondent your your lives are 
in some sense just stand as an 

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inspiration as they are, but do 
you have any particular advice 

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you'd like to share with people 
who may be in a darker place? 

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Yes, when I was younger, I 
seriously considered suicide, 

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considered very seriously 
considered. 

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I didn't do that. 
No, I didn't do it, but came, 

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you know, but when I was there 
at the river with the bridge and

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I was just so frustrated. 
I had a loving family. 

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That wasn't the issue. 
The issues. 

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I felt so different and not on 
the gay, gay issue because that 

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hadn't come in my mind. 
But I just knew that, you know, 

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I wasn't the baseball player 
like my brothers, OK, I, I 

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wasn't the jock. 
I wasn't, I wasn't the, the I 

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wasn't going to go into the coal
mines and work Well, first of 

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all, my dad did not want us to, 
but they were just a lot of 

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things that I felt somewhat art 
for my my own community and I 

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really considered it and I 
didn't do it, obviously, and I'm

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glad I didn't and all. 
I'm we're glad you didn't. 

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All I can offer those who are 
are are thinking about it is 

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take the time to back away 
because it you get through it, 

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it gets better. 
So many wonderful opportunities 

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are there in life that lay ahead
of you. 

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Give yourself the opportunity to
experience them, to grow. 

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Nothing will be as bad as you 
think at that particular time. 

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And yes, you know, you may have 
issues along the way the rest of

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your life, but you're also going
to have some really wonderful 

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joy, wonderful adventures that 
you you have a right to have. 

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You know that you are on this 
planet to experience. 

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Take that. 
Take that opportunity. 

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And you are not alone. 
Yeah, you're not. 

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How isolated you think you are. 
You are not alone. 

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There is someone who is 
experiencing something similar 

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to what you're going through. 
No matter what you feel or how 

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unique or odd you feel, take a 
breath, especially in your 

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teenage years. 
Just know that it's going to get

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better. 
Trust me, we've all gone through

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those periods where especially 
in the teenage years where we 

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feel isolated, that we're odd 
man out, that no one understands

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what I'm going through. 
It takes time. 

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You've got to give yourself that
time. 

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Be patient with yourself, be 
kind to yourself. 

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No one is harder on you than you
are. 

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And just know that you're not 
alone. 

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Look out, search out online now 
there are tools and 

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opportunities that we never had 
available to us. 

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We just had to rely on our 
individual strength and 

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determination and sublimation in
many cases. 

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But there are so many out places
you can reach out to. 

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You know, even if you just want 
to comment to us on our Travel 

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Channel, we answer everybody. 
Just know that you're not alone.

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Mine was my 4th grade teacher. 
She was a wonderful woman. 

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And and I didn't mention what I 
was thinking of doing, but she 

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obviously felt that something 
was up with me. 

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So she spent time, we talked. 
You know, she took me. 

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She took me for a ride in a 
brand new Cadillac. 

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You know, it was a 54 Cadillac, 
you know, with the the windows 

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00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:05,720
that went up and down and that 
there was just something that I 

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00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:08,200
could talk to her about that I 
couldn't share with my mom and 

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00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:09,680
dad. 
OK, Yeah. 

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Because I I thought that I was 
disappointing my my mom and dad 

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by not being the baseball 
player, by not being the top. 

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00:12:16,960 --> 00:12:18,480
Yeah. 
Trying to find that helpful 

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adult or find your tribe as 
would like to say. 

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Find your tribe. 
Go find that music, drama 

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people. 
You, you Can't Sing and dance. 

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00:12:26,040 --> 00:12:28,800
They're still going to welcome 
you, you know, Find those that 

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group and find that tribe. 
So I'll put some links if 

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00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:36,000
there's anyone on the call 
anywhere in the world that is 

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feeling really in a dark place. 
Some organizations that you can 

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00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:43,200
e-mail that you can text to that
you can call that will help 

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particularly it links specific 
to sexual minorities. 

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00:12:47,680 --> 00:12:49,600
Bobby, you, you mentioned 
teenagers. 

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00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:53,120
So what we know now that we 
didn't know when any of us were,

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were young is that the brain 
isn't formed until the mid 20s. 

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And sometime in grammar school, 
it starts to change and it's 

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00:13:03,920 --> 00:13:07,840
rewiring itself and their 
hormones and and a lot of 

217
00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:11,720
construction going on, which is 
one reason why you should avoid 

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drinking, binge drinking and 
drugs in those years because. 

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The. 
Wiring may not all come 

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00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:21,320
together. 
So things can look very dark at 

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00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:27,160
17 or 18 that at 27 you look 
back and the sun is out and you 

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00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:32,600
really can't figure out what, 
what exactly it was that so 

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depressed you when you were 17. 
I had a number of dark years and

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I can construct a number of 
theories about what what may 

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00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:45,680
have changed my mood. 
But, you know, I think the 

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evidence now is it may just be 
that I've crossed that magic 25 

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and the sun came out. 
And, you know, it's like the 

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depression during the winter. 
You have to remember, at least 

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in most places in the world, the
sun will come out. 

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There will be a summer. 
Well, before we go, anything 

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that you want to say to parents 
of queer people? 

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Just love them. 
They aren't there to live up to 

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your ideals, they're there to 
live their lives. 

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The best you can do is just 
encourage them, hug them. 

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Know that you're there, there to
support them and just as they 

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are. 
Yeah, don't judge them because 

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they love somebody that or love 
in a way that you don't 

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understand. 
That's not your role. 

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Your role it, in my opinion, as 
a parent, is to help them 

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develop themselves, develop 
their core values so that they 

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can go out in life and stand on 
their own. 

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That's what we do as parents. 
We want them to be successful. 

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So support that and don't. 
Forget you can still have 

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grandkids. 
Linda Robertson in a previous 

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podcast said tell your child 
that you believe them and that 

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you have their back. 
I think that's just so. 

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I know that's hard for some 
parents, but that is so 

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important that you say that 
there's a Netflix documentary 

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called Join or Die and it's a 
fascinating movie about what 

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happens to people and to 
societies when they stop finding

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their tribe and they stop 
joining and finding birds of a 

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feather. 
They just cocoon themselves into

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their living rooms and exist 
only online and how detrimental 

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it is to mental health. 
So I think your advice of find 

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your tribe first online and if 
you can in person and it doesn't

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have to be a gay choral. 
I mean, not every town has one 

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like San Francisco or a gay 
choir. 

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You may just be a choir or a 
baseball team or a garden 

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society or whatever it is. 
But the evidence now is that you

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extend your life significantly 
by just joining a single club or

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a single church, and those 
people who never join and 

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participate in any group 
activities are really 

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disadvantaged. 
Join or die. 

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Currently on Netflix. 
Well, any final word, Grandpa 

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Bobby, Grandpa Scott before we 
sign off? 

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No, thank you. 
We appreciate it. 

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Opportunity. 
Yeah. 

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We appreciate the opportunity to
reach out to a lot of younger 

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people and just let them know 
that there is a great world out 

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there. 
They can have a long term 

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relationship and just grow out 
to be the most boring people on 

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the planet. 
And give us your YouTube channel

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one more time. 
That's two gay grandpas travel 

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on YouTube. 
And then on podcasts, we have a 

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podcast called Travel Your 
Heart, which we talk more than 

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just travel. 
Ah, it's about. 

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Traveling through life travels 
and our travels through life. 

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Thank you very much. 
Thank you for. 

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Inviting us. 
We appreciate it. 

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Appreciate it. 
This is Elton Sherwin. 

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Stay safe, be brave, and God 
bless.