1
00:00:03,480 --> 00:00:07,880
I'm Aaron and I'm Dana, and this
is crimes we didn't commit. 

2
00:00:11,640 --> 00:00:13,360
OK, here we go. 
We're back. 

3
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We are back. 
Back I haven't seen you in. 

4
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In many days, a long time I. 
Went to Florida. 

5
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You left and then came back with
another person. 

6
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Yes, I did. 
Yasmeen is here. 

7
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Hello. 
Hello my sister. 

8
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Welcome to the pod. 
We're excited you're here. 

9
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How long did it take you to do 
this, to bring a story? 

10
00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:36,840
A week. 
That's really not bad because 

11
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mine's taken 3. 
But then I started with one 

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story and then I almost finished
it and I was like, that's 

13
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boring. 
And then I started another story

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and I was halfway through it, 
and then I was like, that's, 

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that's also boring. 
So then I finally did this one. 

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So this better be good there's. 
A lot of hype behind this. 

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Hopefully. 
I'm pretty excited. 

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My SO it got some feedback 
regarding our talking. 

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We do too much. 
We talk too much. 

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Well, here's what I'm thinking. 
Don't listen. 

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Fast forward. 
Yeah, Fast forward. 

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Spotify has chapters. 
They do, and I think Apple has 

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chapters too, but don't quote me
on that. 

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I won't because I'm not. 
Sure. 

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I never would. 
But I do know also is we have 

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1000 listens. 
Which is so cool. 

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So exciting. 
Are you one of the listens? 

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Yes, I am. 
I know that I'm like 10 of them.

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I'm a solid 10, probably, maybe 
15. 

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It's so exciting, so exciting. 
It's a lot of support that we've

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gotten. 
Yeah. 

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From when we started from 
sitting on the floor at workout 

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class yes to now. 
Yeah, and we don't have 1000 

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followers. 
Which? 

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But we'll get there, so. 
Follow. 

36
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Yeah. 
So follow. 

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If you listen, just follow. 
Even if you don't listen 

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anymore, just follow. 
Yep. 

39
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It's not gonna do anything. 
It's free. 

40
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It really helps. 
I follow. 

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I am following. 
We love that. 

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If you're not, get out. 
Yep. 

43
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Oh, I hit my stand goal. 
Your stand, I guess. 

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What does that mean? 
I was standing. 

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How do you know if you're 
standing? 

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I'm not sure. 
Not sure how technology works. 

47
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Is it interesting? 
How does it count my steps? 

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Movement. 
So standing. 

49
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Like if you shook your hand a 
bajillion times it would count 

50
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of steps, really. 
I have someone at work who tries

51
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to meet their steps so they just
keep shaking their hands. 

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I'm like, that's cheating. 
Like how was that? 

53
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That doesn't meet. 
Their that's fucking cheating 

54
00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:47,000
it. 
Is 100% I've done that before 

55
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just to make myself feel better 
in my brain. 

56
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So you can also do competitions 
with like friends on your 

57
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activity app or whatever. 
And so I'll do it's like a seven

58
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day challenge and I will cheat. 
So I've won every single 

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challenge you're. 
Outing yourself to everyone, 

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right? 
Now, well, not every time I'll 

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cheat, but if if someone's 
actually like beating me and I'm

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like, what the fuck is going on 
here? 

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They're cheating. 
I'll start like a a yoga 

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workout. 
So it'll count as like movement 

65
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will count as exercise, but I'm 
just chilling on the couch. 

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You're standing. 
I'm yeah, I'm literally laying 

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down. 
I'm in Chevaka for like an hour 

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and yeah, so that's how I'll win
those challenges. 

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So if you guys want to fuck with
me. 

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You're just sitting at home. 
Just go. 

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Just aggressively see her in the
mirror as you pass her house. 

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Just like, shit, That's funny. 
So you're in Colorado? 

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Yeah, I am. 
How's the weather there right 

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now? 
Bipolar, yeah. 

75
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Wasn't it like snowing and then 
hot? 

76
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Yeah, it snowed like 6 inches 
one day and then it was sunshine

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and like 70° the next day. 
No, can't do it. 

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It's really annoying. 
I can't do it. 

79
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Where in Colorado? 
Englewood, Co. 

80
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So Denver area. 
OK, got it. 

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What's your address? 
It is don't kill me we're. 

82
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Going to get APO box 1 day. 
We will get APO box Also last 

83
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night I was I've been looking up
the addresses to some serial 

84
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killers that are incarcerated 
and I have like inmate numbers 

85
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and addresses. 
So I'm going to type up like a 

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letter to send them and see if 
they respond. 

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I mean, what's what can be 
nothing lost, right? 

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Like might as well try it. 
Not at all. 

89
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Imagine. 
That would be so weird that. 

90
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'D be kind of cool to get a 
litter back. 

91
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That would be so cool, right? 
And like a. 

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Picture have her address on 
there there. 

93
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Wouldn't no so. 
When we get APO box. 

94
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So that's another thing I was 
reading is don't OK, well your 

95
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address on a letter to a killer.
Why? 

96
00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:16,480
Yeah, we would need to get APO 
box. 

97
00:05:16,480 --> 00:05:18,760
Honestly, it'd be funny to put 
like somebody's address that you

98
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don't like. 
That would be oh that. 

99
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Would be great. 
Except for I feel like that 

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could be traced back to us 
somehow. 

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00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:29,280
That probably is some federal 
offense or something. 

102
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Oh yeah, I don't know. 
I don't either. 

103
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Maybe not. 
Probably not. 

104
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Probably I feel like it. 
Would be like, do you have to 

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put a return address on a 
letter? 

106
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I don't think you do. 
I don't think you do. 

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Someone tell us. 
Yeah, I'll ask how to use 

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Google. 
I'll ask chat. 

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When I when I had to mail in, I 
had to mail a package and they 

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wouldn't let me mail unless I 
put a return address. 

111
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On Was that like UPS? 
Or something. 

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It was USPS. 
Really. 

113
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Yeah. 
But that's a package though. 

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I'm not trying to send these 
guys like a candle. 

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I just want to send them a 
letter. 

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I think that that would work. 
This candle is called 

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Decapitated Jasmine. 
Yeah, but I I am going to do 

118
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that. 
I am going to send letters. 

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OK, that's. 
Cool. 

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And tell them what our podcast 
name is. 

121
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Yeah. 
Because, you know, there's no 

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bad press. 
That's right. 

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All the inmates are listening to
our podcast. 

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They're like, yo do me. 
What if they like started 

125
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sending us some like extra 
secrets? 

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00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:43,840
Oh, we're going to talk about 
it. 

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Yeah. 
We're going to tell everybody. 

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Honestly, that's the type of 
shit we'll put on our Patreon 

129
00:06:48,040 --> 00:06:51,000
too, you know? 
And that is coming soon. 

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Sometime very, very soon. 
Yes. 

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So if you're ready to drop them 
$4.00 a month for some extra 

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00:06:58,360 --> 00:07:01,720
shit, for some inner circle 
shit, we'll be ready. 

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Baking videos. 
Yeah, like killer banana bread. 

134
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Homicidal Cookies. 
Honestly, merge it. 

135
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Would be yeah, we should come up
with recipe. 

136
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Yeah, just for fun. 
Well, certain bakery. 

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We will. 
Start. 

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No idea what's going to come out
of. 

139
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This no. 
We have so many things. 

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Something y'all know? 
I know in the future if we had 

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like a manager or something, 
they'll be like, dude, you need 

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to narrow it down. 
You're doing way too much. 

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Meanwhile, we're sitting in a 
six year old's bedroom. 

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Recording this. 
We're sharing a mic. 

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That's right. 
We need $4.00. 

146
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I mean, I have a stuffed corn 
next to me. 

147
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Oh man, what a good time. 
Such a good time. 

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What a good freaking. 
Did you want to talk about 

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something that happened or 
information that you found out 

150
00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:07,760
recently or no, did you not want
to talk about that? 

151
00:08:08,440 --> 00:08:12,800
No, it's just I found out 
someone I knew knew had a 

152
00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:14,640
murderer in their family or 
something. 

153
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OK, that's too personal. 
We won't. 

154
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No, OK, Not today. 
Maybe check the page out. 

155
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OK, cool, cool, cool, cool. 
But. 

156
00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:27,960
Yeah, another time. 
Yeah, in another. 

157
00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:31,600
OK. 
Oh, let's talk about yes means 

158
00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:33,919
case. 
Oh yeah, that's why you're here.

159
00:08:35,159 --> 00:08:37,799
Yes, I worked too hard for this.
You really did. 

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00:08:38,400 --> 00:08:39,440
She worked. 
It was stressing. 

161
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Me out. 
I don't know how you guys do 

162
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this. 
I don't know either. 

163
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I don't know what this is on me.
I don't know either. 

164
00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:49,800
Honestly, I'm not sure it's 
confusing. 

165
00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:51,920
Yeah, I get it. 
How we come up with shit? 

166
00:08:52,040 --> 00:08:53,360
I don't know either when we need
it. 

167
00:08:53,480 --> 00:08:55,400
Yeah, but it happens. 
It does. 

168
00:08:55,400 --> 00:08:56,960
It always works out. 
Every time. 

169
00:08:57,440 --> 00:08:59,360
Yep, like most things. 
Yep, I guess. 

170
00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:02,840
Yes, yeah. 
But we need to catch back, catch

171
00:09:02,840 --> 00:09:06,760
up more on episodes. 
We're like, we don't have a lot 

172
00:09:06,760 --> 00:09:09,320
in the library right now, no. 
We don't, we don't have anything

173
00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:11,040
in the library. 
Yeah, I don't think. 

174
00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:13,200
We'll get there. 
Except for that one case that I 

175
00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:15,480
did, but it just sounded dumb. 
It was all over the place. 

176
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I liked it. 
I didn't. 

177
00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:19,240
I liked it. 
Which one? 

178
00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:21,440
I'm not telling you it's a 
secret secret. 

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00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:24,000
Coming soon. 
I like secrets. 

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00:09:24,680 --> 00:09:28,000
Secret secrets are no fun unless
you share them with everyone. 

181
00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:37,720
What if you said that to like a 
murderer? 

182
00:09:37,720 --> 00:09:39,080
And they're just like, oh wow, 
you're right. 

183
00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:42,520
Right, I can't talk about it. 
So I have to, yeah. 

184
00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:45,880
So today we're talking about one
of the strangest serial killer 

185
00:09:45,880 --> 00:09:47,840
cases in modern American crime 
history. 

186
00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:51,200
Not just because of the murders,
not just because of the lies, 

187
00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:54,480
but because for part of the 
killing spree, the man at the 

188
00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:56,920
center of it all was actually 
working with the FBI. 

189
00:09:57,120 --> 00:10:00,400
Oh, that's so cool. 
That would be so cool. 

190
00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:02,320
Oh my God. 
I would love to be that person. 

191
00:10:02,320 --> 00:10:04,240
I would too, but. 
But not to murder, be the 

192
00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:05,720
killer. 
Yeah, No, I don't want to. 

193
00:10:05,720 --> 00:10:07,560
But I want to be involved in the
investigation. 

194
00:10:07,560 --> 00:10:09,640
I want to be involved with it 
and I want to be the 

195
00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:11,080
investigation. 
Dexter. 

196
00:10:11,280 --> 00:10:12,960
That's so cool. 
OK, that's awesome. 

197
00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:17,880
OK, except, I mean, you wouldn't
want to be the FBI realizing 

198
00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:21,400
that this all happened. 
No true idiots. 

199
00:10:21,680 --> 00:10:25,880
All right, so this story is the 
story of Scott Lee Kimball. 

200
00:10:25,880 --> 00:10:29,800
He's a con artist, fraudster, 
serial manipulator, FBI 

201
00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:33,360
informant, and convicted killer.
And the deeper you go into the 

202
00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:37,080
case, the more unbelievable it 
becomes, because almost everyone

203
00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:39,920
who crossed paths with Scott 
Kimball walked away with the 

204
00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:42,800
same impression. 
He talked constantly, he always 

205
00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:44,800
had a story, and he always 
seemed connected. 

206
00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:47,800
And somehow he always managed to
convince people he was more 

207
00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:50,520
important, more dangerous, and 
more powerful than he really 

208
00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:51,880
was. 
A narcissist. 

209
00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:54,600
That's right. 
So for years, he manipulated 

210
00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:59,200
girlfriends, family members, law
enforcements, fellow inmates and

211
00:10:59,200 --> 00:11:02,240
eventually even federal agents. 
By the time the investigators 

212
00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:04,720
finally untangle what was 
happening, at least four people 

213
00:11:04,720 --> 00:11:07,320
were dead, and many 
investigators believe the real 

214
00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:11,400
number could be much higher. 
It involves missing women, fake 

215
00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:14,920
identities, forged documents, 
prison informants, staged phone 

216
00:11:14,920 --> 00:11:17,720
calls, hidden remains in remote 
wilderness areas and a killer 

217
00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:20,640
who seemed to enjoy controlling 
people almost as much as he 

218
00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:22,320
enjoyed killing them. 
God. 

219
00:11:22,880 --> 00:11:25,960
And somehow, for years, he kept 
getting away with it. 

220
00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:30,640
What a fucking weirdo. 
I can't wait. 

221
00:11:31,880 --> 00:11:34,800
I mean, I had something in my 
throat. 

222
00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:37,720
I had a tickle in my throat. 
But how cool? 

223
00:11:37,760 --> 00:11:40,600
I mean, God, it sounds bad when 
you say how cool is that? 

224
00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:42,800
No, but it is cool. 
You see it as a movie. 

225
00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:45,400
That's what I. 
Was just thinking it sounds like

226
00:11:45,480 --> 00:11:48,000
a made for TV. 
Movie. 

227
00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:51,320
Movie made for TV or made for 
made for anyway? 

228
00:11:51,320 --> 00:11:53,360
Anywhere it was, it was made to 
watch. 

229
00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:56,520
It was made to see. 
Is there a movie? 

230
00:11:57,200 --> 00:11:59,560
There was a 48 hour and a 
couple. 

231
00:11:59,560 --> 00:12:01,200
There's a couple like 
documentaries. 

232
00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:03,000
OK. 
But there should be a good 

233
00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:04,200
enough movie. 
Yeah. 

234
00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:06,360
We're we're doing that. 
No one can do it. 

235
00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:08,080
We're we're doing. 
Don't make it. 

236
00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:08,880
That's ours. 
I'm going to make it. 

237
00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:13,480
OK, goodbye. 
All right, so who is Scott 

238
00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:15,280
Kimball? 
So Scott Kimball was born 

239
00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:20,560
September 21st, 1966 in Boulder,
Co and grew up in nearby. 

240
00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:22,680
You live there? 
Not border. 

241
00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:24,880
OK, I live Colorado. 
Yeah. 

242
00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:28,320
It was like 2 hours, like an 
hour away. 

243
00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:30,400
OK. 
From where he grew up. 

244
00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:34,120
She knows him. 
Oh, you know him personally? 

245
00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:35,440
Wow. 
You dated him? 

246
00:12:35,680 --> 00:12:36,600
I did. 
He was your. 

247
00:12:36,720 --> 00:12:37,560
Ex. 
That's right. 

248
00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:40,200
What a fucker. 
Just a little older than me. 

249
00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:44,880
Fuck Scott. 
My neighbour's name is Scott. 

250
00:12:44,880 --> 00:12:47,480
We just. 
Need to open up? 

251
00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:50,520
He makes lovely cookies. 
Imagine he's like, wait a 

252
00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:53,000
minute, fuck Scott, what did I 
do? 

253
00:12:56,120 --> 00:12:57,560
OK, sorry. 
No, you're good. 

254
00:12:57,560 --> 00:13:01,400
OK, So his childhood was chaotic
almost immediately. 

255
00:13:01,400 --> 00:13:04,120
His parents divorced when he was
around 10 years old. 

256
00:13:04,440 --> 00:13:07,000
His mother later entered a same 
sex relationship. 

257
00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:10,640
And according to retired FBI 
Special Agent Johnny Gressing, 

258
00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:13,520
investigators believe this may 
have contributed to Kimball 

259
00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:16,000
developing resentment towards 
women at a young age. 

260
00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:17,960
Rude. 
Hang on, That's what I'm saying.

261
00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:21,360
That's a little weird little. 
Rude as hoe, anyways. 

262
00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:25,160
So people who later studied 
Kimball's behavior believed he 

263
00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:27,880
learned early on how to 
manipulate emotions, especially 

264
00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:30,960
women's emotions. 
By his teenage years, he had 

265
00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:33,840
already already developed what 
investigators described as a 

266
00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:36,240
game. 
He enjoyed convincing people to 

267
00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:37,840
do things they normally wouldn't
do. 

268
00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:40,880
He would love bomb women. 
He'd shower them with attention,

269
00:13:40,880 --> 00:13:44,720
affection, stories, promises, 
until they became emotionally 

270
00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:47,000
attached to him. 
Then he would manipulate them, 

271
00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:50,320
isolate them and control them. 
That's the worst kind of guy. 

272
00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:53,400
Yeah, that's, I mean, anytime 
any of my friends are like, oh, 

273
00:13:53,400 --> 00:13:57,000
he's loves me so much. 
She's taking me out all the time

274
00:13:57,000 --> 00:13:59,000
and all this stuff and I'm just 
like, that guy sucks. 

275
00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:01,800
Well, then you start to see your
friend less and less. 

276
00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:02,840
Yeah. 
And less. 

277
00:14:02,840 --> 00:14:05,080
Yeah, because that's. 
That's it. 

278
00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:08,040
He. 
Wants her to completely and 

279
00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:10,520
utterly depend upon him. 
Yeah, that's right. 

280
00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:12,800
And they're just the worst. 
Is gross. 

281
00:14:13,320 --> 00:14:15,560
Yeah. 
And he he would try to like pull

282
00:14:15,560 --> 00:14:19,280
his pull girlfriends away from 
their boyfriends just to like, I

283
00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:21,600
think he like gets like this 
rush. 

284
00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:25,240
Off of it, it's a power control.
You're mine. 

285
00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:28,280
You're going to be mine. 
You know, in an ownership kind 

286
00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:29,720
of way. 
What a sick fucker. 

287
00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:34,120
All right, but there was 
something darker happening 

288
00:14:34,120 --> 00:14:36,920
behind the scenes of it all. 
After Kimball and his younger 

289
00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:39,280
brother moved in with their 
grandmother following the 

290
00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:43,280
divorce, a neighbor named 
Theodore Peyton began sexually 

291
00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:46,040
abusing the boys. 
The abuse reportedly lasted 

292
00:14:46,040 --> 00:14:48,200
nearly a decade. 
I was about to say I love the 

293
00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:50,640
name Theodore, but then you said
that and I was like, never mind.

294
00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:54,480
I know I like the name because 
like Teddy, I think it's so 

295
00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:55,360
cute. 
I just. 

296
00:14:55,520 --> 00:14:59,680
Love it, I think it's precious. 
I'll make me think. 

297
00:15:00,640 --> 00:15:01,960
I'm sorry. 
I have a thought. 

298
00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:04,800
I should like pull the 
microphone over to me and take 

299
00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:05,720
it away from you. 
See. 

300
00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:08,040
OK, I'm here. 
I. 

301
00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:09,960
Don't wait. 
Have we told the people that you

302
00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:12,200
guys are sharing I. 
Think so, Yeah, we mentioned at 

303
00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:12,960
the beginning. 
OK. 

304
00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:14,280
All right. 
Stop talking, I'm using it. 

305
00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:21,040
OK. 
But I don't remember what I was 

306
00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:22,840
gonna say, so here you go, you 
got back. 

307
00:15:23,160 --> 00:15:25,680
Thank you. 
OK, thanks. 

308
00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:31,080
OK, so Theodore was an asshole. 
Yes he was. 

309
00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:34,960
So he was sexually abusing the 
boys but then it later escalated

310
00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:38,160
from inappropriate touching and 
photographs to violent assaults 

311
00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:42,600
and rape and then years later, 
when Kimball was 23 years old, 

312
00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:45,360
he attempted suicide by shooting
himself in the head. 

313
00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:47,800
The bullet grazed his skull, 
leaving a visible. 

314
00:15:52,280 --> 00:15:58,840
How bad is your aim? 
When you sound attempted to 

315
00:15:58,840 --> 00:16:02,960
shoot himself in the head, the 
attempt word got me. 

316
00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:08,920
It just got me because how do 
you how do you shoot yourself in

317
00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:13,640
the head and not die? 
Yeah, I mean. 

318
00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:15,040
That's that's true. 
That's valid. 

319
00:16:15,520 --> 00:16:17,640
OK, sorry. 
No, I probably shouldn't have 

320
00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:18,920
laughed. 
I'm not laughing at suicide. 

321
00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:19,720
It's awful. 
Oh. 

322
00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:22,440
Yeah. 
No, but it did leave a visible 

323
00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:28,360
scar on his forehead. 
But like, if you shoot, if you 

324
00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:30,960
shoot yourself in the head and 
you graze it, you're not 

325
00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:32,360
shooting. 
You're not, you're not touching 

326
00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:33,080
your head. 
No. 

327
00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:35,240
How do you? 
So he has a little baby scar on 

328
00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:35,920
his for it? 
Yeah. 

329
00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:37,760
What's that? 
I was trying to kill myself. 

330
00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:46,280
It's a bullet. 
Bullet scratch. 

331
00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:51,400
Oopsie. 
Oh my God. 

332
00:16:57,640 --> 00:17:00,960
OK, OK. 
Suicide is not funny. 

333
00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:02,360
OK, No, it's not. 
Bring that back to me. 

334
00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:06,800
Thank you. 
OK, So then it left his guard on

335
00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:08,680
his forehead. 
And then afterward, Kimball and 

336
00:17:08,680 --> 00:17:11,200
other victims finally reported 
Peyton to the police. 

337
00:17:11,560 --> 00:17:14,560
And then in 1991, Peyton was 
convicted on multiple sexual 

338
00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:19,560
assault, murder or counts. 
People close to Kimball later 

339
00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:21,640
said that the abuse 
fundamentally changed him. 

340
00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:24,440
One relative said it was like he
had lost his conscience. 

341
00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:27,680
And then others described him as
even like previous girlfriends 

342
00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:30,880
that he had, a deep shame and 
emotional emptiness that seemed 

343
00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:33,640
to harden into manipulation, 
deception and cruelty. 

344
00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:36,760
That makes sense. 
I think someone who's been 

345
00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:40,880
sexually assaulted as a child 
now has to have some sort of 

346
00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:44,440
control on their life. 
And maybe that's why because you

347
00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:48,480
hear like people who have been 
assaulted at a young age tend to

348
00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:52,320
do that when they're older to 
others. 

349
00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:56,200
And I think it is some sort of 
control situation. 

350
00:17:56,320 --> 00:18:02,720
And I think we'll find out more 
on Monday, next Monday when we 

351
00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:05,240
go to. 
Wednesday. 

352
00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:08,280
It's on Monday. 
It's on Wednesday this week. 

353
00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:12,000
It's on a Pillar day. 
Yeah. 

354
00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:15,080
Yes, on Wednesday when we go, 
we'll probably find out more 

355
00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:17,520
about that in the Triangle. 
Kept that Monday hang out. 

356
00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:20,480
Kept that Monday, sorry 
calendars. 

357
00:18:23,920 --> 00:18:28,680
So whatever psychological damage
existed, it didn't stop there, 

358
00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:31,760
because by adulthood, Scott 
Kimball had already begun 

359
00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:34,400
building a life around fraud, 
lies, and crime. 

360
00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:37,800
And eventually, those lies 
escalated to something much 

361
00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:41,600
worse than scams. 
Looking into his criminal 

362
00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:44,400
background, Scott Kimball's 
first felony conviction came at 

363
00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:46,640
the age of 22 for passing bad 
checks. 

364
00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:48,880
But that was only the beginning.
Over the years, he built 

365
00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:52,760
extensive criminal records 
involving financial fraud, 

366
00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:56,240
forged documents, burglary, 
scams, fake identities, stolen 

367
00:18:56,240 --> 00:18:59,560
property, illegal businesses. 
And then he constantly moved 

368
00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:03,480
state to state, often using 
aliases to stay ahead of 

369
00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:06,520
authorities. 
To outsiders, he could appear 

370
00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:09,080
charming, intelligent, even 
successful. 

371
00:19:09,360 --> 00:19:11,600
But underneath investigators, 
Layers said that he was 

372
00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:13,920
essentially living a career as a
con artist. 

373
00:19:14,360 --> 00:19:18,160
So hang on, what is he doing 
with all this money? 

374
00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:20,800
If he's like trying to steal 
money, do all that. 

375
00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:23,720
What do people actually do? 
If you're on the run, what are 

376
00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:26,840
you doing with that money? 
I feel like with him because 

377
00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:29,800
he's such a narcissist, you 
know, and he's very just 

378
00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:32,000
obsessed with himself. 
It's just proving to himself 

379
00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:34,240
something I don't know that 
he's, he's moving a lot. 

380
00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:36,720
So he. 
Does he need nice things? 

381
00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:38,440
Is it the clothes? 
Does he need to look like a 

382
00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:40,280
hood? 
Rich I guess is what they say. 

383
00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:42,920
Like you have all the nice 
things, but literally you have 

384
00:19:42,920 --> 00:19:44,200
nothing. 
Else, right, Right. 

385
00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:49,040
And then the other thing not 
related to that, most people 

386
00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:51,240
that I've looked into, you said 
he is a murderer. 

387
00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:56,480
Yeah. 
That have a background like 

388
00:19:56,480 --> 00:20:00,040
this, like an extensive 
background when it comes to like

389
00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:03,440
illegal businesses, property 
identity scams, burglary. 

390
00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:06,760
I feel like a lot of them, their
intention is never to really 

391
00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:09,000
murder. 
I don't know. 

392
00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:10,720
I don't know where this thought 
is going. 

393
00:20:11,120 --> 00:20:13,080
It's just. 
Interesting when it escalates to

394
00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:16,920
murder because that's their 
thing is scamming people. 

395
00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:20,000
Well, and I think we've talked 
about this before on previous 

396
00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:23,320
episodes where there's different
types of killers. 

397
00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:25,280
Yeah, right. 
There's the killers that. 

398
00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:29,160
That kill to kill like the. 
Empathy that are just like 

399
00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:32,040
wanting to just do the, you 
know, kill. 

400
00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:36,560
And then there's the killers 
that have empathy, do crimes 

401
00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:39,360
like this, the stealing, the 
this, the fraud that. 

402
00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:41,480
And it's more of like an impulse
kill, right? 

403
00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:43,840
Like you don't want to get 
caught so you have to get rid of

404
00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:44,680
this. 
That makes sense. 

405
00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:47,520
Witness or whatever. 
And then there's a couple others

406
00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:50,960
that I can't remember, but those
two, you know, for example, are 

407
00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:53,320
the 2 extremes. 
That makes sense, yeah. 

408
00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:59,040
Yeah, I feel like for him is is 
probably a control manipulation 

409
00:20:59,040 --> 00:21:02,920
piece. 
Yeah, so. 

410
00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:04,520
He's probably got a temper too, 
I bet. 

411
00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:08,440
I, I bet he's angry. 
I don't think he would because 

412
00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:12,280
he would like, he liked to be 
perceived as someone who was 

413
00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:16,560
like super well put together and
everything. 

414
00:21:17,120 --> 00:21:22,640
So let's see, where were we? 
In 2000, Kimball landed in 

415
00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:25,920
prison in Montana after 
violating probation tied to 

416
00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:29,680
another fraud conviction 
involving a Ford's $25,000 

417
00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:33,560
check. 
And then from there, things 

418
00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:36,920
escalated quickly. 
He transferred to a halfway 

419
00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:41,600
house and then escaped in 2001. 
And then while on the run, he 

420
00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:44,600
stole a truck, fled to 
Washington, kidnapped and raped 

421
00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:47,640
a woman, then escaped again to 
Alaska while pretending to be 

422
00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:50,200
his brother. 
Eventually, authorities caught 

423
00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:54,040
him and returned him to prison, 
and most people at that point 

424
00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:56,600
would disappear into the system.
But Scott Kimball saw 

425
00:21:56,600 --> 00:21:59,560
opportunity because prison gave 
him access to exactly what he 

426
00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:01,480
needed most, people to 
manipulate. 

427
00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:04,880
And somehow he managed to 
convince the FBI to trust him. 

428
00:22:05,560 --> 00:22:08,920
This I'm excited about. 
Plus like who goes to He went 

429
00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:13,960
from Montana to Alaska. 
So he so when he was in Colorado

430
00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:17,160
and he lived with his grandma 
after the parents divorced after

431
00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:20,880
it was like around his later 
high school years, he moved to 

432
00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:22,600
Montana to live with his his 
dad. 

433
00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:25,000
OK. 
And then he got. 

434
00:22:25,120 --> 00:22:28,160
In trouble in. 
Trouble went to prison and then 

435
00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:30,360
he escaped that halfway house. 
OK. 

436
00:22:30,360 --> 00:22:31,920
And then that's when he went to 
to. 

437
00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:34,520
Washington. 
Washington and then Alaska. 

438
00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:36,040
And then Alaska to escape the 
rape. 

439
00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:38,960
Got it with. 
Yeah. 

440
00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:44,240
So while incarcerated in 
Washington state, Kimball began 

441
00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:46,280
offering information to 
investigators. 

442
00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:49,240
This is actually a common route 
into becoming informant. 

443
00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:51,600
A prisoner claims to know about 
criminal activity. 

444
00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:54,080
Law enforcement evaluates 
whether the information is 

445
00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:56,320
useful. 
And cooperation can sometimes 

446
00:22:56,320 --> 00:22:58,800
reduce sentences or improve 
prison conditions. 

447
00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:01,200
Kimball understood that system 
perfectly. 

448
00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:04,480
One of his cellmates was a name.
Name. 

449
00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:13,480
What was his name? 
His name? 

450
00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:16,320
Steve Ennis. 
Steve. 

451
00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:21,000
Steve, who was so that Steve 
Ennis was involved in an ecstasy

452
00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:23,520
distribution investigation in 
the Denver area. 

453
00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:27,560
Kimball told federal agents that
there was a murder for hire plot

454
00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:30,960
involving Ennis and Ennis's 
girlfriend Jennifer Markham. 

455
00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:33,840
But is it true? 
TBD, OK. 

456
00:23:37,360 --> 00:23:43,840
Next week. 
OK, so according to Kimball, 

457
00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:47,520
they were planning to kill. 
So Ennison and his girlfriend 

458
00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:50,080
were planning to kill a witness 
tied to the case. 

459
00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:53,680
The FBI believed Kimball, and 
somehow Kimball convinced 

460
00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:56,760
federal agents that he would 
make a valuable paid informant. 

461
00:23:57,040 --> 00:24:00,840
So by the end of 2002, he was 
back on the streets in Colorado 

462
00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:03,920
with minimal supervision. 
That decision will later become 

463
00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:06,640
one of the most controversial 
aspects of this entire case. 

464
00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:09,080
Former investigators later 
admitted Kimball was an 

465
00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:14,280
extraordinary manipulator. 
Well, I bet they better say 

466
00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:16,840
that. 
Extraordinarily manipulative. 

467
00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:19,560
Extraordinaire. 
He was an extraordinary 

468
00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:23,960
manipulation, yes. 
He appeared calm, cooperative 

469
00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:27,160
and intelligent. 
One retired FBI agent later said

470
00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:30,520
Kimball seemed to leave bread 
crumbs inside FBI files, tiny 

471
00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:33,960
hints and statements that in 
hindsight pointed back back to 

472
00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:35,120
him. 
Whoa. 

473
00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:37,200
Why would he do that? 
Why? 

474
00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:39,320
Like it's just to prove 
something to himself. 

475
00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:41,960
That's exactly right. 
Because he has like, that's 

476
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:44,680
right. 
You will never fucking catch me 

477
00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:46,080
kind of thing. 
Yeah. 

478
00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:48,800
Wow. 
And he, that's he, like, got off

479
00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:50,680
on that. 
So. 

480
00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:57,280
But at that time, nobody 
realized what they were looking 

481
00:24:57,280 --> 00:24:59,440
at. 
And during this exact time 

482
00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:02,320
period, people around Scott 
Kimmel began disappearing. 

483
00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:06,280
The first young mother named 
Jennifer Markham, was the first 

484
00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:10,840
murder victim. 
So as we recall, Jennifer 

485
00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:13,240
Markham is Steve Eddis's 
girlfriend. 

486
00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:14,600
Oh, OK. 
Ecstasy. 

487
00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:18,080
There's a lot of like. 
Connections, yeah, So a lot of 

488
00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:22,440
red twine between. 
Which is like the little bread 

489
00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:23,680
crumbs that he was kind of 
leading. 

490
00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:26,440
Yes. 
OK, so who's Jennifer Markham? 

491
00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:29,680
She was a 25 year old from the 
Denver area. 

492
00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:32,640
She was a single mother raising 
a four year old child. 

493
00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:37,880
Single mom happy nose snaps 
anyway. 

494
00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:40,480
OK. 
She was raising a four year old 

495
00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:42,520
child while working as a 
stripper to survive. 

496
00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:46,080
People close to her described 
someone as described her as 

497
00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:48,960
someone struggling financially 
but still trying to hold her 

498
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:52,440
life together. 
Then on February 17th, 2003, 

499
00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:55,240
Jennifer visited her boyfriend 
Steve Ennis in prison and then 

500
00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:59,640
shortly afterwards she vanished.
At first there were very few 

501
00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:01,320
answers. 
Then about a year later, 

502
00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:04,080
Jennifer's parents received a 
phone call from the FBI. 

503
00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:06,800
Agents told them something 
terrible may have happened to 

504
00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:09,880
her, to their daughter. 
Jennifer's phone had last been 

505
00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:13,800
used on the same day she 
disappeared, and her 1996 Saturn

506
00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:16,560
sedan had been found abandoned 
at the Denver airport. 

507
00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:20,560
But there was one major problem.
Jennifer had no outgoing flight 

508
00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:23,680
scheduled that day. 
Then the FBI introduced Jennifer

509
00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:26,840
Jennifer's parents to one of 
their informants, Scott Kimball.

510
00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:30,200
Oh God. 
Kimmel claimed he knew exactly 

511
00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:33,080
what happened to Jennifer. 
He told them that she travelled 

512
00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:36,440
to New to New York to buy a 
handgun tied tied to this 

513
00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:41,040
supposed murder for hire plot. 
Then he claimed she had been 

514
00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:43,440
murdered by an associate 
connected to her boyfriend's 

515
00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:46,040
associate. 
The drugs. 

516
00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:49,480
Yeah, Yeah. 
Because they feared she might 

517
00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:51,760
testify. 
So, according to Kimball, 

518
00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:55,120
Jennifer had been tied up and 
strangled from behind after 

519
00:26:55,120 --> 00:26:57,960
putting up a fight. 
He even claimed to possess a 

520
00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:00,920
photograph of her dead body. 
Then he made an even more 

521
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:03,280
disturbing statement. 
He said her remains were 

522
00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:07,440
somewhere near Rifle, Co and 
claimed he had been asked to dig

523
00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:10,400
up her body to removed her 
breast implants and IUD because 

524
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:12,040
the serial numbers could 
identify her. 

525
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:16,640
Wait a second. 
Yeah, I mean the serial number. 

526
00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:19,360
That's true. 
Yeah, but I I would have never 

527
00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:23,160
thought of that. 
Why does he have so much detail?

528
00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:24,840
He has a. 
Lot of detail and also it's 

529
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:27,800
after the fact. 
I have a picture, yeah, of her 

530
00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:30,840
dead from strangulation while 
I'm in prison. 

531
00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:32,760
With no boobs. 
None. 

532
00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:34,840
But that's the thing. 
Because he's, he's a paid 

533
00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:36,800
informant and he's like 
undercover. 

534
00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:38,680
He's like going. 
I know, of course I. 

535
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:41,200
Found all this. 
Information and then but then to

536
00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:44,960
obviously you know. 
So he's doing it for the check. 

537
00:27:45,360 --> 00:27:48,920
He is, but then he also is doing
it to get off on the fact like, 

538
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:51,200
oh, I'm doing all this under the
FBI's nose, Yes. 

539
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:54,000
Both things are true. 
But then on top of that, first 

540
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:57,080
she disappears and then he has 
all this information like 

541
00:27:57,080 --> 00:27:59,880
there's no, there's no other way
for this information to come 

542
00:27:59,880 --> 00:28:02,160
about. 
Like, there's no way to validate

543
00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:04,400
this, right? 
Because the FBI is not going to 

544
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:06,680
be talking to some. 
There's no other people for them

545
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:08,160
to talk to, right? 
You know. 

546
00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:13,560
He's the only person, yeah, so 
trying to make himself valuable.

547
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:17,480
Gross. 
I mean, like, for someone who's 

548
00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:21,080
like, a manipulator, they 
probably love feeling valued, 

549
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:23,680
Yes. 
Anyways, OK, so Kimball offered 

550
00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:26,400
to take Jennifer's parents into 
the mountains to show them where

551
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:29,400
she was, but they refused 
because they believe that if 

552
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:31,880
they got into a vehicle with 
Scott Kimball, they might never 

553
00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:33,280
come back. 
OK. 

554
00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:39,200
Even they know his number and 
the FBI is like, no, he's valued

555
00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:41,040
asset he. 
What? 

556
00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:43,440
That's true. 
So Jennifer's parents became 

557
00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:46,800
like super suspicious about good
Scott Kimball, and they voiced 

558
00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:48,640
their concerns to the FBI, but 
then the agents actually 

559
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:50,680
defended Kimball. 
Yep, I knew it they. 

560
00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:55,520
Were like, yeah, he's a valuable
whatever he's helped with other.

561
00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:58,160
You wouldn't know all this 
information if it wasn't for 

562
00:28:58,160 --> 00:28:58,760
him. 
Yep. 

563
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:03,840
So Jennifer's parents thought 
that by bringing Kimball like to

564
00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:07,440
have that conversation with 
Kimball and the parents, it was 

565
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:11,520
the FB is way of saying like, 
Hey, your daughter, like she had

566
00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:13,800
a bad like life is like a 
stripper or whatever. 

567
00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:16,440
You know, you now you have some 
answers like just can you just 

568
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:17,680
leave us alone? 
Like fuck off. 

569
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:20,520
That's what they felt like, the 
parents said. 

570
00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:24,280
Yeah, I mean, I don't know how I
would feel, you know what I 

571
00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:25,680
mean? 
I would want answers 

572
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:27,600
immediately, and if they're not 
giving them to me, they're not 

573
00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:30,320
doing their job. 
But if I'm getting answers from 

574
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:33,960
a sketch source, yeah, I'm going
to be like, those aren't the 

575
00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:36,640
answers that I wanted. 
How reliable is this fucker? 

576
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:38,080
Right. 
Like, I don't know. 

577
00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:41,320
What's his track right? 
If my vibes, if the vibes are 

578
00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:43,160
off, yeah, I'm not going to 
believe you. 

579
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:47,440
If you're not doing your job and
you're relying on this fucking 

580
00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:49,880
piece of shit, right, no. 
No. 

581
00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:53,040
They shouldn't be an agent. 
And they're completely trusting 

582
00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:55,960
what he has to say. 
There's no FBI investigation on 

583
00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:57,520
their end. 
Right at all, right? 

584
00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:01,800
Unbelievable. 
So Jennifer's family, mainly her

585
00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:05,640
dad, took matters into their own
hands and they put it 

586
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:07,720
billboards. 
They appear on television, they 

587
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:10,520
begged for information, and then
eventually someone started 

588
00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:13,480
listening because Jennifer 
wouldn't be the only person 

589
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:17,400
connected to Scott Kimball who 
disappeared so. 

590
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:20,320
Yeah. 
We're going to talk about, 

591
00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:22,560
we'll, we'll do a little full 
circle, but we're going to talk 

592
00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:25,640
about Casey MC Lloyd. 
She was another victim. 

593
00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:27,920
She was 19 years old. 
She was the daughter of 

594
00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:30,680
Kimball's wife at the time, Lori
MC Lloyd. 

595
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:38,000
OK, so it's like hit her, his 
stepdaughter, OK. 

596
00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:43,320
So, friends and family. 
The way you came with his step 

597
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:51,920
son, his mom. 
Sorry. 

598
00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:56,840
So friends and family described 
Casey as bright, bubbly, fun 

599
00:30:56,840 --> 00:30:59,680
loving and eager to please. 
She danced and sang all the 

600
00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:02,320
time. 
But after her parents divorced, 

601
00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:05,240
things began spiraling. 
Casey became rebellious. 

602
00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:08,360
She started using drugs, was a 
runaway, falling into dangerous 

603
00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:11,800
situations. 
Then in August of 2003, after an

604
00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:14,840
argument with her mom over drugs
found inside the house, Casey 

605
00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:16,440
grabbed her bicycle and rode 
away. 

606
00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:22,280
It was thought that Scott 
Kimball may have planted those 

607
00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:26,040
drugs to try to get her 
isolated. 

608
00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:33,560
Like as in, but she was using 
drugs, so you think that maybe 

609
00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:35,840
he's helped her start using 
drugs? 

610
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:40,400
No, no, because she started 
using drugs prior to Kimball 

611
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:43,400
being in her life. 
But she was trying. 

612
00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:45,400
She's starting to get on the 
right path. 

613
00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:50,480
And then when her mom found the 
drugs in the house, she, Casey 

614
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:52,080
kept saying, no, those are not 
my drugs. 

615
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:53,720
Like, I swear those are not 
mine. 

616
00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:56,360
And then they had an argument 
and then she just ran away. 

617
00:31:56,480 --> 00:32:01,000
So yeah, I mean, I wouldn't put 
it past Kimball to do that. 

618
00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:04,640
I've also said those aren't my 
drugs when they were my drugs. 

619
00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:09,320
So I mean, either way, right? 
Yeah, either way. 

620
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:11,320
Plus, divorce really fucks 
people up. 

621
00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:13,960
That's true. 
Just want to say that true for 

622
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:17,160
that. 
Shout out to all the traumatized

623
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:20,160
kids out there. 
Feel like we're all traumatized.

624
00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:25,280
We talked about that at lunch. 
Yeah, we went to a brunch. 

625
00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:27,000
Mother's Day. 
Mother's Day brunch. 

626
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:28,520
Happy Mother's Day to all the 
mothers by. 

627
00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:32,360
The way Mother's Day. 
To all of you out there, anyway,

628
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:36,360
so yeah, we were all talking 
about how trauma, because it 

629
00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:38,880
sounds dumb when you talk about 
trauma, but you know, but you 

630
00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:41,760
know, it's an actual important 
thing to to reflect upon. 

631
00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:44,640
Yep, that was that was it. 
OK. 

632
00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:47,400
Thank you for your information. 
That sounds like a great lunch. 

633
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:52,000
Pass the salt. 
Trauma. 

634
00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:55,360
It's funny how freely we like 
talk about. 

635
00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:57,520
I mean, I think it's great that 
we can freely talk about that 

636
00:32:57,520 --> 00:32:59,160
kind of stuff and like all 
together. 

637
00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:02,680
Mama does start, though. 
No, I think that's how we. 

638
00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:03,960
Love you, Mama. 
She listens. 

639
00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:05,200
Oh, yeah. 
Hello. 

640
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:08,280
Hey, Mommy. 
That's how my sisters are 

641
00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:09,680
though. 
We talk about the most 

642
00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:12,560
traumatizing shit and we laugh 
about it inside. 

643
00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:15,000
We're crying, but we're 
laughing. 

644
00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:19,200
That's right. 
So I'll cry later, probably 

645
00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:23,920
anyway. 
So she laughed. 

646
00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:27,480
Because drugs. 
Yes, and she swore that she 

647
00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:28,800
didn't. 
She's not the one who put them 

648
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:31,000
there. 
OK, So at first, her family 

649
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:33,840
thought she would return like 
she always had before. 

650
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:37,040
But then two days later, she 
missed work at the sandwich shop

651
00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:39,720
where she was employed. 
And suddenly everyone knew 

652
00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:43,440
something was wrong. 
When Lori, which is the mom, 

653
00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:46,640
Casey's mom, tried to report her
missing, police refused because 

654
00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:49,720
Casey was legally an adult, so 
she had every right to leave. 

655
00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:52,120
And to be allowed to file a 
report, there had to be proof of

656
00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:54,000
foul play. 
Oh. 

657
00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:58,440
My God, I think that's stupid. 
It is so dumb. 

658
00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:01,600
But during this time, Scott 
Kimball stayed close to the 

659
00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:05,240
family, and he promised Lori 
that he would find her weeks 

660
00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:07,000
later. 
He even claimed that a neighbor 

661
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:10,360
had recently seen Casey with 
their boyfriend and sister. 

662
00:34:10,639 --> 00:34:13,920
But then weeks, months, and then
a year went by without hearing 

663
00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:16,920
from her, and now Casey's mom 
and dad were convinced something

664
00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:18,920
bad had happened to her. 
I know. 

665
00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:22,880
Then Casey's best friend, 
Tabitha Morton, began 

666
00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:25,639
investigating herself. 
She noticed something chilling. 

667
00:34:25,639 --> 00:34:28,920
Scott Kimball disappeared at the
exact same time as Casey did. 

668
00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:31,639
That realization triggered a 
chain reaction. 

669
00:34:31,679 --> 00:34:36,400
This is when Rob Mcloyd, Casey's
dad, started digging deeper and 

670
00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:39,840
eventually ran across another 
article about another missing 

671
00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:41,400
woman connected to Scott 
Kimball. 

672
00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:45,800
The importance of friends. 
Yes. 

673
00:34:47,639 --> 00:34:50,199
That's, I mean, that was it. 
It's extremely that they 

674
00:34:50,199 --> 00:34:52,400
recognize certain things like 
that. 

675
00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:54,639
They pay attention to your life 
enough. 

676
00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:57,600
Like even on the way back from 
Florida, you're like, you're in 

677
00:34:57,600 --> 00:34:59,680
North Carolina now because you 
have my location. 

678
00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:01,800
Oh, if any of my friends went 
missing. 

679
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:03,000
Oh, you'd know. 
I. 

680
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:06,920
Will find them yes because when 
you're like the taken guy when 

681
00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:10,440
you become into I have a certain
set of skills When you become 

682
00:35:10,720 --> 00:35:15,480
like in my circle yeah I am 
asking for your location because

683
00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:21,120
I need it and yeah I'm I'm just 
going to know where you're at 

684
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:23,840
and if something's off I'll find
you. 

685
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:25,440
You're like, welcome to North 
Carolina. 

686
00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:26,880
I'm like I literally cross the 
border. 

687
00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:31,840
You're like looking around when.
Looking at your location, I was 

688
00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:35,200
like, oh, she's 20 minutes away.
See, it's nice. 

689
00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:38,520
It's nice to have locations. 
Like, oh, you're in South 

690
00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:41,240
Carolina now? 
See you soon. 

691
00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:47,000
Yeah, it's a real thing. 
OK. 

692
00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:49,240
Plus, you have to check 
locations sometimes before you, 

693
00:35:49,240 --> 00:35:51,880
like, call that person. 
So if I'm going to call like my 

694
00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:53,400
sister, I'll be like, OK, is she
at home? 

695
00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:55,360
Because if she's at home, she'll
probably answer. 

696
00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:58,720
If she's not, you know. 
I didn't even think of that. 

697
00:35:59,240 --> 00:36:02,640
Yeah, I never check anything 
before I call. 

698
00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:04,800
I rarely. 
I don't check locations that 

699
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:06,360
much. 
Yeah, well, I was going to call 

700
00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:08,200
you once and I looked at your 
location. 

701
00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:10,120
You were at the HT. 
So I was like, I can't call. 

702
00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:12,240
Her oh that makes sense. 
That makes. 

703
00:36:12,240 --> 00:36:14,000
I probably would have picked up 
so yeah, but. 

704
00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:15,240
Maybe I just didn't want to bug 
you. 

705
00:36:15,240 --> 00:36:16,520
Yeah, it wasn't important. 
Yeah. 

706
00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:18,600
Hey. 
Hey look at this. 

707
00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:21,520
This is stupid so. 
Look at my nail. 

708
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:23,760
Do you think we need this for 
the podcast? 

709
00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:26,000
And you're like Aaron, no. 
But yes. 

710
00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:30,480
Yeah, OK. 
Sorry, no. 

711
00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:36,120
OK, so again, that's when Rob 
Mcloy, Casey's dad, started 

712
00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:39,600
digging deeper, and then he saw 
that connection with another 

713
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:41,520
missing woman, which is Jennifer
Markham. 

714
00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:49,400
As we recall, Jennifer's dad put
up billboards and he was on TV 

715
00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:51,800
and everything, so there was 
stuff about him. 

716
00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:53,720
Rob Mcloyd made that connection 
with that. 

717
00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:59,800
So Rob MacLeod reached out to 
Jennifer's dad, Bob Markham, and

718
00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:02,080
then they began starting to 
investigate on their own. 

719
00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:05,200
Perfect love that. 
But the next disappearance made 

720
00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:08,360
things even darker, because this
victim was Scott Kimball's own 

721
00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:09,960
uncle. 
Oh my God. 

722
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:16,320
I mean, spread out, you know. 
Pick people you're not connected

723
00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:17,240
to I. 
Mean. 

724
00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:21,320
It's murder one O 1. 
Is is during this time he's 

725
00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:23,320
working for the FBI. 
Yeah. 

726
00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:26,960
And he's like, I'm just going to
whack my uncle. 

727
00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:30,240
Who can I? 
Hey, excuse me. 

728
00:37:30,240 --> 00:37:31,920
FBI. 
Yeah, the bosses. 

729
00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:36,200
My uncle's missing. 
Can you help me find him? 

730
00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:38,400
Actually, I know. 
Actually I have a picture of 

731
00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:43,120
him. 
I have a picture of his. 

732
00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:46,320
Body can you? 
He was stabbed 4 times in the 

733
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:49,240
neck. 
And all his money's gone. 

734
00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:56,640
Also, can I have a bank account?
That'll be a $50,000. 

735
00:37:56,640 --> 00:37:58,720
What about a bonus on this third
body? 

736
00:37:58,720 --> 00:38:00,000
Now that's. 
Right. 

737
00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:04,840
OK, so Terry Kimball was Scott 
Kimball's 6 year old uncle. 

738
00:38:05,240 --> 00:38:09,920
In 2004 Terry came to stay with 
Scott and his wife Laurie McCoy 

739
00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:13,200
for a short period of time. 
Then suddenly, on September 1st,

740
00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:17,280
2004, when Terry left, he was 
never seen again. 

741
00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:20,760
Scott's explanation? 
Terry had supposedly won the 

742
00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:23,560
lottery in Ohio and moved to 
Mexico With a stripper. 

743
00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:33,040
With a stripper. 
With Jennifer, come up with 

744
00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:35,880
better stories, like something 
more believable. 

745
00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:39,320
What an idiot. 
You know, I feel like he felt 

746
00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:42,800
invincible, yes, because he was 
like, I'm an informant. 

747
00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:46,160
Well, I'm being paid by the hang
on though, because I mean the 

748
00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:48,760
wife is probably like what the 
fuck? 

749
00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:52,280
He won the lottery and didn't 
like give us anything. 

750
00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:57,480
He just left. 
It well Terry wasn't even wasn't

751
00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:02,360
related to Laurie Mcloyd. 
Laurie was Scott's. 

752
00:39:03,240 --> 00:39:04,600
Why? 
Well, that's what I mean. 

753
00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:07,480
Scott was living. 
The uncle was living with Scott 

754
00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:12,800
and his wife. 
So yes, so later it'll come to 

755
00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:17,400
the investigators when they do 
their investigative shit, they 

756
00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:23,760
find out that Scott probably 
killed Terry because they found 

757
00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:26,480
out that he got the wife, his 
wife. 

758
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:32,680
I'm confused. 
So an affair, no. 

759
00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:39,360
So Scott Kimball killed his 
uncle Terry because Terry got a 

760
00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:43,920
divorce and he he like soon 
after that he had a lot of money

761
00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:45,840
from that divorce. 
So they think that. 

762
00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:47,120
Scott. 
Killed him from that. 

763
00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:50,720
So possibly like it just I 
didn't see anything specifically

764
00:39:50,720 --> 00:39:53,440
about that. 
Like it went into Lori's life or

765
00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:56,440
whatever, but he wanted to 
acquire some money. 

766
00:39:56,600 --> 00:39:59,600
OK, that makes sense. 
OK. 

767
00:40:01,240 --> 00:40:04,680
So although the story sound 
absurd, there wasn't enough 

768
00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:09,640
evidence to prove otherwise. 
Then in June 2006, when remember

769
00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:14,040
when Bob Markham and Rob McCoy 
connected with each other and 

770
00:40:14,040 --> 00:40:18,960
they started comparing notes, 
they talked to Lori McCoy and 

771
00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:22,320
then they suddenly remember 
Terry, another person who had 

772
00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:25,320
entered Scott Kimball's orbit 
and was never seen again. 

773
00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:28,800
So they started to realize that 
all these people that are 

774
00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:31,280
connected to Scott are not being
found again. 

775
00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:37,880
And we talked about so Terry, 
they obviously suspected that 

776
00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:41,880
Scott murdered Terry for 
financial reasons and that was 

777
00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:45,640
enough motive to tie him to that
case. 

778
00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:51,760
But then, sorry. 
OK. 

779
00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:53,920
So then at that point, law 
enforcement was beginning to 

780
00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:56,960
realize they weren't looking at 
isolated disappearance anymore 

781
00:40:56,960 --> 00:40:59,120
and that they might have a 
serial killer on their hands. 

782
00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:03,240
That investigators uncovered 
another missing woman, one who 

783
00:41:03,240 --> 00:41:06,160
kept referring to a mysterious 
man named Hannibal. 

784
00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:12,200
OK. 
Like does do they not realize 

785
00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:15,880
that he's not helping with any 
investigations that are? 

786
00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:19,120
Nothing. 
That have happened right you 

787
00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:22,720
know right he's not assisting 
with anything no things are 

788
00:41:22,720 --> 00:41:27,000
happening while he. 
They're like these cases that 

789
00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:28,920
you're bringing us information 
on are. 

790
00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:32,480
They're brand new. 
Yeah, brand new cases. 

791
00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:34,840
Brand new. 
Like it just doesn't how they're

792
00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:37,880
not connecting that is wild. 
I don't understand. 

793
00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:40,120
I don't get it. 
I don't like you were married to

794
00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:45,480
her and her daughter's missing 
and then your uncle's missing 

795
00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:48,040
and then. 
Right, like not realizing that 

796
00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:49,520
all of these people are 
connected. 

797
00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:51,800
To him, yeah. 
Like that, are they just 

798
00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:54,920
choosing to ignore it because 
cases are getting closed? 

799
00:41:54,920 --> 00:42:01,680
And then his cellmates, you 
know, girlfriend who you knew 

800
00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:04,640
information, she's gone. 
Like, come on. 

801
00:42:05,120 --> 00:42:09,800
I think he was, he wasn't like 
explicitly like saying anything 

802
00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:12,720
about like he wasn't going 
forward to the like, to the 

803
00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:14,640
giving total. 
Information on all of them, 

804
00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:17,560
yeah. 
I think like, the information 

805
00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:21,200
came and then he, like, 
someone's like, oh, this person 

806
00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:25,720
died and it was someone in an 
inner circle with a cellmate. 

807
00:42:25,720 --> 00:42:28,680
And so then he suddenly had 
information about it while he 

808
00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:31,600
was also working on other cases 
that the FBI had. 

809
00:42:31,720 --> 00:42:37,200
Right. 
So this next woman that was 

810
00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:39,320
murdered, her name was Leanne 
Emery. 

811
00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:43,120
She was 24 years old. 
Her parents described her life 

812
00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:46,360
as one full of promises. 
She was a straight A student in 

813
00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:48,360
high school and even graduated 
early. 

814
00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:50,760
But adulthood became difficult 
for her. 

815
00:42:51,240 --> 00:42:53,720
Her mother's severe health 
problems forced Leanne to leave 

816
00:42:53,720 --> 00:42:57,080
college. 
She lost her job as a veterinary

817
00:42:57,080 --> 00:42:58,920
assistant. 
Then she entered an abusive 

818
00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:01,720
marriage. 
After the divorce, she began a 

819
00:43:01,720 --> 00:43:04,160
relationship with a prisoner 
named Stephen Hawley. 

820
00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:08,000
Good God, I know. 
In 2003, Leanne told her parents

821
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:10,600
she was leaving for a caving 
trip in Mexico with friends. 

822
00:43:10,600 --> 00:43:13,480
She was an avid spelunker. 
She would often go every like 

823
00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:14,960
weekend. 
What did you just say? 

824
00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:17,240
Spelunker. 
Have you ever heard of 

825
00:43:17,240 --> 00:43:19,560
spelunking? 
Never heard like cave diving 

826
00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:22,160
spelunking? 
Oh, it is now I've. 

827
00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:24,400
Splunked. 
I've splunked before. 

828
00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:26,560
Splunked. 
I don't know that's a word 

829
00:43:26,680 --> 00:43:30,240
either. 
So you can either be a splunker 

830
00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:34,840
and ghost and ghost splunking. 
Welcome to Merriam Webster's 

831
00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:38,240
Edition 40 We. 
Are English, but what did you 

832
00:43:38,240 --> 00:43:39,720
say? 
You said splunking. 

833
00:43:39,720 --> 00:43:42,480
Spelunking, I think. 
I don't know if that's a word. 

834
00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:44,600
Oh yeah, spelunking is a word, 
OK. 

835
00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:49,400
Yeah, and so cave diving and so 
would you be a splunker? 

836
00:43:49,520 --> 00:43:53,840
Possibly. 
And then you you are splunking. 

837
00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:57,880
Or are you just one who? 
Splunks but because I've. 

838
00:43:57,880 --> 00:43:59,960
Splunk. 
Where? 

839
00:44:00,240 --> 00:44:03,040
In Puerto Rico. 
You went cave diving, did you 

840
00:44:03,040 --> 00:44:05,000
swim into? 
It I was in a cave and we jumped

841
00:44:05,080 --> 00:44:07,040
in the water. 
That's so cool, I want to do 

842
00:44:07,040 --> 00:44:08,320
that. 
That's splunking. 

843
00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:13,720
Yeah, I, I splunge. 
She's I am a mother splunker, 

844
00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:19,280
OK? 
OK, so she was in a relationship

845
00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:22,960
with a man named Stephen Hawley 
in January of 2003. 

846
00:44:23,080 --> 00:44:25,960
OK, she went on a little 
spelunking trip in January 2003.

847
00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:30,280
But then two weeks, 2 weeks. 
That's my favorite word now, by 

848
00:44:30,280 --> 00:44:31,880
the way. 
Spelunking. 

849
00:44:33,080 --> 00:44:36,400
Two weeks later, authorities in 
Moab found her abandoned 

850
00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:38,720
vehicle. 
Her clothes, purse and 

851
00:44:38,720 --> 00:44:41,760
belongings were still inside. 
Police noticed the car had been 

852
00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:43,560
deliberately pulled into a 
clearing. 

853
00:44:44,200 --> 00:44:46,560
Nearby were shoe prints and tire
tracks. 

854
00:44:46,560 --> 00:44:49,200
As if like she literally went 
to, got out of the car and then 

855
00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:52,000
went to another car. 
Oh, yes, OK, that makes sense. 

856
00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:54,440
That makes sense. 
Something felt wrong to the 

857
00:44:54,440 --> 00:44:56,600
detectives and they feared 
something bad may have happened 

858
00:44:56,600 --> 00:44:58,480
to her. 
But once again, when her family 

859
00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:01,320
tried to file a missing persons 
report, they were brushed aside 

860
00:45:01,320 --> 00:45:03,320
because they were. 
She was too old. 

861
00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:05,680
She was too old and they need to
have evidence of foul play. 

862
00:45:06,600 --> 00:45:09,440
So, of course, Leanne's parents 
began investigating themselves. 

863
00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:12,520
They looked at her credit card 
records and they show it show 

864
00:45:12,520 --> 00:45:15,720
that she'd never made it to 
Mexico and said she travelled 

865
00:45:15,720 --> 00:45:18,720
across multiple Western states 
while writing bad checks and 

866
00:45:18,720 --> 00:45:20,640
charging thousands to her 
father's credit. 

867
00:45:20,640 --> 00:45:27,760
Card That doesn't sound right. 
Sounds like Scott, sounds like a

868
00:45:27,760 --> 00:45:30,200
boy named. 
Scott So her parents, like her 

869
00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:32,360
parents knew that's not 
something that she would do. 

870
00:45:33,520 --> 00:45:35,800
And then they started looking 
through emails and they 

871
00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:38,240
discovered some disturbing 
emails that she had written to 

872
00:45:38,240 --> 00:45:39,960
one of her relatives before 
disappearing. 

873
00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:44,240
And one she said, quote, I have 
to hide my orders came from 

874
00:45:44,240 --> 00:45:46,040
Hannibal and he's a dangerous 
person. 

875
00:45:46,120 --> 00:45:49,000
And then another says I'm in an 
underground world. 

876
00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:52,760
And then yet in another there 
she said, if Hannibal knew I was

877
00:45:52,760 --> 00:45:54,960
talking to you, he'd had me 
killed. 

878
00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:57,520
And in a second, But who was 
Hannibal? 

879
00:45:58,160 --> 00:46:01,080
Letters from Leanne's boyfriend,
Stephen Hawley, the guy in 

880
00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:04,640
prison, started to arrive to 
Leanne's parents. 

881
00:46:05,080 --> 00:46:10,440
And they start, they said that 
she that Leanne was in terrible 

882
00:46:10,440 --> 00:46:12,640
danger and they needed to call 
the FBI. 

883
00:46:12,640 --> 00:46:15,080
But when pressed about who 
Hannibal was when her parents 

884
00:46:15,080 --> 00:46:16,720
were like, wait, but who's 
Hannibal? 

885
00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:19,000
He refused to reveal the true 
identity. 

886
00:46:19,080 --> 00:46:21,080
But then eventually, 
investigators learned who it 

887
00:46:21,080 --> 00:46:23,400
truly was. 
Hannibal was Scott Kimball. 

888
00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:27,040
At that point, the case became 
almost surreal because somehow 

889
00:46:27,040 --> 00:46:30,080
the suspected kill serial killer
was still operating as a federal

890
00:46:30,080 --> 00:46:32,040
informant. 
God damn. 

891
00:46:32,080 --> 00:46:35,520
And once again, investigators 
finally began comparing all the 

892
00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:38,520
disappearances together. 
The entire case starts 

893
00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:40,840
collapsing into one horrifying 
pattern. 

894
00:46:41,160 --> 00:46:43,920
That took a few years. 
That took it took too long. 

895
00:46:43,960 --> 00:46:46,680
Yeah, it started. 
They started to actually 

896
00:46:46,680 --> 00:46:52,040
investigate in 2006, but then 
the murder started in 2002, 

897
00:46:52,080 --> 00:46:56,640
2003, 2-3, something like that. 
In the early 2000s. 

898
00:46:57,560 --> 00:46:59,080
That's right. 
We keep it vague. 

899
00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:01,280
Yeah, we keep it. 
Real big. 

900
00:47:01,600 --> 00:47:06,800
So in June 2006, as we remember,
Bob Markham, Jennifer Markham's 

901
00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:11,320
dad, and Rob Mcloyd, Casey 
Mcloyd's dad, were comparing 

902
00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:15,400
information and they found those
three people that were connected

903
00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:20,440
to Scott Kimball, Jennifer Casey
and Terry, which all had that 

904
00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:22,960
one common denominator as Scott 
Kimball. 

905
00:47:24,640 --> 00:47:30,000
So that discovery pushed the FBI
to assign Special Agent Jonathan

906
00:47:30,000 --> 00:47:34,080
Gressing to the case alongside 
Detective Gary Thatcher, who had

907
00:47:34,080 --> 00:47:36,280
already spent over a year 
investigating Kimball. 

908
00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:41,600
OK, so Kimball was their 
confidential informant, OK. 

909
00:47:42,720 --> 00:47:46,600
Well, no, he was, he was, he was
an FBI's informant. 

910
00:47:46,600 --> 00:47:49,240
And then those two guys were 
assigned to the case. 

911
00:47:50,920 --> 00:47:54,960
So as investigators dug deeper, 
the evidence became 

912
00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:57,680
overwhelming. 
Every victim had last been seen 

913
00:47:57,680 --> 00:48:01,000
with Scott Kimball. 
Investigators learned Kimball 

914
00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:03,920
specifically targeted vulnerable
people, women struggling 

915
00:48:03,920 --> 00:48:07,280
financially, people with 
unstable lives, people easy to 

916
00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:11,560
isolate or manipulate. 
Investigators start closing in 

917
00:48:11,560 --> 00:48:14,840
on Jennifer Markham's case when 
an inmate came forward about 

918
00:48:14,840 --> 00:48:18,360
some disturbing details. 
An inmate later told authorities

919
00:48:18,360 --> 00:48:21,320
Kimball once asked whether 
breast implants could be traced.

920
00:48:21,560 --> 00:48:29,520
We remember earlier when Casey's
parents, Casey parents. 

921
00:48:30,040 --> 00:48:34,120
Casey parents remember when 
Casey Parents was looking. 

922
00:48:34,120 --> 00:48:38,440
When Casey's parents met with 
Scott Kimball and Kimball said 

923
00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:43,120
that someone asked him to take 
the to take the breast implants 

924
00:48:43,120 --> 00:48:49,640
and the IUD out of Casey. 
So now when Azure, the 

925
00:48:49,640 --> 00:48:53,120
investigators are doing their 
investigation, they and an 

926
00:48:53,120 --> 00:48:56,000
inmate came to them and said 
that. 

927
00:48:59,040 --> 00:49:02,280
Didn't he ask about the serial 
numbers on a on the implants? 

928
00:49:02,800 --> 00:49:06,640
Yes, sorry, I'm finding my 
supplants OK. 

929
00:49:07,720 --> 00:49:11,160
And the inmate said that that 
Kimball once asked whether 

930
00:49:11,160 --> 00:49:13,160
implants could be traced or not.
And when the inmate was 

931
00:49:13,160 --> 00:49:15,960
questioned why implants mattered
when victims could still be 

932
00:49:15,960 --> 00:49:18,680
identified through fingerprints 
or dental records, Kimball 

933
00:49:18,680 --> 00:49:22,040
replied and quotes. 
You cut off the feet, head and 

934
00:49:22,040 --> 00:49:26,480
hands and there's no trace more 
of yes. 

935
00:49:26,520 --> 00:49:29,440
What do you want to say? 
What was your like? 

936
00:49:29,840 --> 00:49:34,360
I mean, that's it. 
That's all they need at that 

937
00:49:34,360 --> 00:49:37,040
point. 
Like, come on, it just, I know, 

938
00:49:37,520 --> 00:49:39,920
you know, yeah. 
But nobody. 

939
00:49:40,880 --> 00:49:41,760
Nobody. 
No crime. 

940
00:49:42,000 --> 00:49:44,600
But that's not true because 
there is that one killer that 

941
00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:46,240
thought that. 
But that's not the case. 

942
00:49:47,560 --> 00:49:49,960
That's why they got caught. 
I don't know who you're talking 

943
00:49:49,960 --> 00:49:50,800
about. 
I don't remember. 

944
00:49:52,360 --> 00:49:56,040
There's that one killer. 
That one time I don't remember, 

945
00:49:56,040 --> 00:50:00,200
but I know that that's not a 
thing 'cause I I know. 

946
00:50:00,400 --> 00:50:01,880
We know. 
I'm an attorney. 

947
00:50:01,880 --> 00:50:04,840
That, yes, and justice will get 
to be done. 

948
00:50:05,000 --> 00:50:08,840
I am the FBI. 
So, Scott? 

949
00:50:09,560 --> 00:50:13,560
So when Kimball shared the cell 
with Jennifer Markham's 

950
00:50:13,560 --> 00:50:18,160
boyfriend Steve Ennis, he saw 
photos of her on the wall and he

951
00:50:18,160 --> 00:50:20,680
promised Steve that he would 
help her out and get her job. 

952
00:50:20,680 --> 00:50:23,520
But in reality that's he just 
wanted her for himself. 

953
00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:30,120
And after all said and done and 
she and he was released from 

954
00:50:30,120 --> 00:50:32,360
prison two months later she 
disappeared. 

955
00:50:33,160 --> 00:50:37,240
That whole case around the 
murder for hire plot involving 

956
00:50:37,240 --> 00:50:42,360
Jennifer was a way for him to 
get close to Jennifer, which 

957
00:50:42,360 --> 00:50:43,760
allowed him to kill. 
Her right? 

958
00:50:44,640 --> 00:50:48,640
So the FBI later interviews 
Steve Ennis about Jennifer's 

959
00:50:48,640 --> 00:50:51,800
disappearance, where he wraps up
the conversation by mentioning 

960
00:50:51,800 --> 00:50:55,800
that there was another inmate, 
Stephen Hawley, concerned about 

961
00:50:55,800 --> 00:51:00,120
the disappearance of his 
girlfriend, Leanne Emery, and 

962
00:51:00,120 --> 00:51:01,760
that Scott may have something to
do with it. 

963
00:51:02,320 --> 00:51:05,280
In a search of Kimball's 
computer, they then found photos

964
00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:07,080
of Liane. 
But more than that, 

965
00:51:07,080 --> 00:51:10,000
investigators also discovered 
violent pornography of Kimball's

966
00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:13,160
computer involving women and 
simulated assaults. 

967
00:51:13,800 --> 00:51:15,280
Whoa. 
Simulated. 

968
00:51:16,040 --> 00:51:19,120
And this is when they connected 
him directly to Leanne Emery 

969
00:51:19,120 --> 00:51:21,480
through travel records and 
photographs on his computer. 

970
00:51:21,720 --> 00:51:24,880
Oh, we got him. 
At that point, authorities moved

971
00:51:24,880 --> 00:51:27,360
quickly. 
Kimball was sentenced to a 48 to

972
00:51:27,360 --> 00:51:30,880
48 years on unrelated nonviolent
charges while investigators 

973
00:51:30,880 --> 00:51:32,760
continued building a homicide 
case against him. 

974
00:51:33,160 --> 00:51:35,360
Love when they do that, they're 
just like, we're going to put 

975
00:51:35,360 --> 00:51:36,680
you in here. 
Yes. 

976
00:51:37,200 --> 00:51:39,720
Until we can figure out what 
else to put you in here for. 

977
00:51:39,720 --> 00:51:43,440
Pin him for something, yes, so 
we have time to pin you for. 

978
00:51:43,720 --> 00:51:45,360
For something else. 
Because you can't. 

979
00:51:45,520 --> 00:51:47,920
You can't charge them for the 
same thing twice, right? 

980
00:51:48,080 --> 00:51:57,680
So that's jeopardy. 
OK, but still, obviously there's

981
00:51:57,680 --> 00:51:59,360
one massive problems. 
There's no bodies. 

982
00:51:59,640 --> 00:52:02,080
And without bodies, murder 
charges would be super difficult

983
00:52:02,080 --> 00:52:05,840
to make. 
Then in April of 2008, Kimball 

984
00:52:05,840 --> 00:52:09,520
Slit, he mentioned a girl who 
had died of drug overdose on 

985
00:52:09,520 --> 00:52:12,760
National Forest land. 
The FBI trace receipts placing 

986
00:52:12,760 --> 00:52:15,840
him near Walden Co. 
The same weekend Casey 

987
00:52:15,840 --> 00:52:18,440
disappeared. 
Forest officials then revealed 

988
00:52:18,440 --> 00:52:22,920
that a hunter, so literally the 
FBI calls the National Forest 

989
00:52:22,920 --> 00:52:26,480
land. 
And then this was like months, 

990
00:52:27,080 --> 00:52:33,440
like later, and the FBI or the 
forest officials said that Oh 

991
00:52:33,480 --> 00:52:37,520
yeah, actually a hunter found a 
skull and we just didn't fucking

992
00:52:37,520 --> 00:52:37,960
report. 
It. 

993
00:52:38,240 --> 00:52:40,440
What? 
Yeah, and the previous winter. 

994
00:52:41,120 --> 00:52:44,600
OK. 
So DNA testing then confirmed it

995
00:52:44,600 --> 00:52:47,560
was Casey Mcloyd. 
And now investigators knew for 

996
00:52:47,560 --> 00:52:49,200
certain Scott Kimball was a 
killer. 

997
00:52:49,600 --> 00:52:52,480
But proving all four murders 
would require an unbelievable 

998
00:52:52,480 --> 00:52:54,560
deal. 
And with the man himself. 

999
00:52:55,160 --> 00:52:59,600
OK, so now it's 2009. 
Investigators believe that they 

1000
00:52:59,600 --> 00:53:02,160
had their man, but they still 
lacked enough evidence to 

1001
00:53:02,160 --> 00:53:04,080
prosecute him for all four 
murders. 

1002
00:53:04,640 --> 00:53:07,080
So they made a controversial 
decision. 

1003
00:53:07,080 --> 00:53:08,600
They offered Scott Kimball a 
deal. 

1004
00:53:09,800 --> 00:53:13,440
Yeah, they said if he led 
investigators to the missing 

1005
00:53:13,440 --> 00:53:16,320
bodies, they would not pursue 
first degree murder charges. 

1006
00:53:16,560 --> 00:53:21,200
Kimball accepted. 
So at this point, OK, it is hard

1007
00:53:21,200 --> 00:53:24,360
to prove it's a murder without 
the bodies and stuff. 

1008
00:53:24,360 --> 00:53:28,320
Yeah. 
But also, I guess there wasn't 

1009
00:53:28,320 --> 00:53:30,560
enough evidence. 
No, there really wasn't. 

1010
00:53:30,560 --> 00:53:32,920
I was like, do they really need 
the bodies right now? 

1011
00:53:33,120 --> 00:53:34,400
I mean. 
But I guess they do. 

1012
00:53:34,440 --> 00:53:39,160
Obviously I being this is when 
being an investigator would be 

1013
00:53:39,160 --> 00:53:43,880
so difficult because you know 
that he is the killer like you 

1014
00:53:43,880 --> 00:53:45,680
know it without a shadow of a 
doubt. 

1015
00:53:45,720 --> 00:53:49,240
Yeah, but you have to have 
certain things to be able to. 

1016
00:53:49,240 --> 00:53:51,520
Legally charge them right. 
That's. 

1017
00:53:51,520 --> 00:53:55,320
So it can't just be instinct or 
vibes, Yeah. 

1018
00:53:56,000 --> 00:53:57,800
If it went off vibes we'd all be
dead. 

1019
00:53:59,160 --> 00:54:01,600
Plus there is no death penalty 
in Colorado, right? 

1020
00:54:01,600 --> 00:54:03,080
No. 
Actually, I have no idea. 

1021
00:54:03,400 --> 00:54:06,400
I don't know, maybe not. 
Well, if they're not going for 

1022
00:54:06,520 --> 00:54:10,080
first degree, they, they must 
not, I mean, because they could 

1023
00:54:10,080 --> 00:54:12,960
say we're not going to go for 
the death penalty and he'll be 

1024
00:54:12,960 --> 00:54:16,280
like, oh, now if they do have 
the death penalty and that's all

1025
00:54:16,280 --> 00:54:18,080
they offered him, I swear to 
God. 

1026
00:54:19,320 --> 00:54:22,800
I'm gonna kill him myself. 
Yeah, Scott, I'll write you a 

1027
00:54:22,800 --> 00:54:23,920
letter. 
Are you looking it up? 

1028
00:54:24,040 --> 00:54:27,680
Yeah. 
Penalty. 

1029
00:54:28,800 --> 00:54:34,000
Death penalty. 
We love that. 

1030
00:54:34,880 --> 00:54:37,680
Uh oh. 
Yes, Colorado had the death 

1031
00:54:37,680 --> 00:54:39,200
penalty. 
In 2009. 

1032
00:54:40,600 --> 00:54:44,760
The Colorado House passed a bill
to abolish it in that year. 

1033
00:54:46,240 --> 00:54:50,400
The legislation failed in the 
state Senate by certain votes, 

1034
00:54:50,720 --> 00:54:52,640
keeping the capital punishment 
legal. 

1035
00:54:53,080 --> 00:54:56,680
So they tried to repeal it. 
OK, so that sucks that they 

1036
00:54:56,680 --> 00:54:59,080
offered him that deal. 
OK, keep going. 

1037
00:54:59,240 --> 00:55:02,440
OK? 
So Kimball eventually LED 

1038
00:55:02,440 --> 00:55:06,080
authorities to the remains of 
Leanne Emery in Book Cliffs 

1039
00:55:06,080 --> 00:55:09,240
Mountains of Utah. 
She was the one that went to go 

1040
00:55:09,240 --> 00:55:12,160
spelunking. 
But during that like whole time 

1041
00:55:12,280 --> 00:55:15,600
he was, he was like, oh, I'm 
pretty sure she's over here. 

1042
00:55:15,840 --> 00:55:17,280
Actually, no, she's over here. 
What a fuck. 

1043
00:55:17,280 --> 00:55:19,360
They just loved. 
He loved to like. 

1044
00:55:19,360 --> 00:55:23,480
Give him wild goose chase. 
And then near her body, 

1045
00:55:23,480 --> 00:55:26,720
investigators found found a 
spent bullet matching Kimball's 

1046
00:55:26,720 --> 00:55:29,520
gun. 
So they for sure believe that 

1047
00:55:29,560 --> 00:55:33,920
that was Leanne and they and 
that she had become involved in 

1048
00:55:33,920 --> 00:55:36,400
laundering money for Kimball, 
and once she was no longer 

1049
00:55:36,400 --> 00:55:40,160
useful, he killed her. 
So OK, he shouldn't have a gun, 

1050
00:55:40,200 --> 00:55:42,200
am I right? 
Right. 

1051
00:55:42,400 --> 00:55:44,640
He's a felon. 
Right. 

1052
00:55:45,360 --> 00:55:47,720
I wonder how they put that 
together. 

1053
00:55:48,000 --> 00:55:49,160
You know, make sure you. 
Don't. 

1054
00:55:49,160 --> 00:55:51,680
I don't know if it's like if he 
legally possessed it though. 

1055
00:55:52,200 --> 00:55:55,680
Well, felons can't have guns. 
No, but also how did he have a 

1056
00:55:55,680 --> 00:55:58,560
gun while he was under the FBI? 
Yeah, that's another that's. 

1057
00:55:58,560 --> 00:56:00,280
What I wanted? 
That's what that's what I'm 

1058
00:56:00,280 --> 00:56:01,000
saying. 
Maybe. 

1059
00:56:01,000 --> 00:56:03,520
Slipping. 
They are so dumb. 

1060
00:56:03,680 --> 00:56:08,040
Later, the FBI said too, that 
they like when they were looking

1061
00:56:08,040 --> 00:56:10,560
back at the case there. 
There's like, sorry guys, but 

1062
00:56:10,560 --> 00:56:14,520
like we when we have informants,
we don't even have a lot of 

1063
00:56:14,520 --> 00:56:16,480
resources. 
So we just kind of have to do 

1064
00:56:16,480 --> 00:56:18,560
what we can do with whatever 
resource that we have. 

1065
00:56:18,560 --> 00:56:21,240
They have minimal supervision. 
It's just what it is. 

1066
00:56:21,240 --> 00:56:22,040
It's. 
Just what it? 

1067
00:56:22,040 --> 00:56:24,680
Is yeah. 
OK. 

1068
00:56:24,920 --> 00:56:28,160
So unfortunately, Jennifer 
Markham's body was never found. 

1069
00:56:28,800 --> 00:56:31,960
Investigators later said that 
there was a basically a 0 

1070
00:56:31,960 --> 00:56:34,920
probability that Kimball had 
forgotten where she was buried. 

1071
00:56:34,920 --> 00:56:36,480
Buried. 
He said he forgot. 

1072
00:56:37,280 --> 00:56:41,200
Many believe that he was just 
withholding her location simply 

1073
00:56:41,240 --> 00:56:45,920
as another manipulation tactic. 
In total, Kimball pleaded guilty

1074
00:56:45,920 --> 00:56:50,440
to killing four people between 
2003 and 2004, but investigators

1075
00:56:50,440 --> 00:56:52,560
suspected there could be many 
more victims. 

1076
00:56:53,600 --> 00:56:57,280
Some estimates reached as high 
as 21 additional unsolved 

1077
00:56:57,280 --> 00:57:00,760
murders. 
Boulder County District Attorney

1078
00:57:00,760 --> 00:57:04,080
Stan Garnett said Kimball often 
bragged about committing dozens 

1079
00:57:04,080 --> 00:57:06,200
of murders. 
Still, even after pleading 

1080
00:57:06,200 --> 00:57:09,960
guilty, Kimball continued to 
manipulate the narrative he 

1081
00:57:09,960 --> 00:57:12,440
opened. 
He openly admitted killing Terry

1082
00:57:12,440 --> 00:57:15,600
Kimball, but when discussing the
women, he spoke in riddles, he 

1083
00:57:15,600 --> 00:57:17,760
said in quotes. 
I was a mechanism. 

1084
00:57:18,000 --> 00:57:21,200
I was part of the mechanics. 
Investigators believe that the 

1085
00:57:21,200 --> 00:57:25,720
murders of the women I know he 
likes, he's like, Oh yes, I did 

1086
00:57:25,720 --> 00:57:27,160
it. 
And then like later he's like, 

1087
00:57:27,440 --> 00:57:30,680
oh, I was just a mechanism. 
Investigators believe the 

1088
00:57:30,680 --> 00:57:33,440
murders of the women carried A 
deeply personal and sexual 

1089
00:57:33,440 --> 00:57:36,960
component that Kimball preferred
not to discuss openly, unlike 

1090
00:57:36,960 --> 00:57:40,280
Terry's murder, which appeared 
motivated primarily by money. 

1091
00:57:41,160 --> 00:57:45,640
But on On October 8th, 2009, 
Scott Kimball was sentenced to a

1092
00:57:45,640 --> 00:57:50,920
70 to 70 years in prison. 70. 
I mean, that's a long time. 

1093
00:57:50,920 --> 00:57:52,160
At least he'll die there. 
But. 

1094
00:57:52,560 --> 00:57:56,320
Yeah, I mean, I that's 
essentially life, but at this I 

1095
00:57:56,320 --> 00:58:00,000
like hearing like 05 life 
sentences, you know, it feels. 

1096
00:58:00,000 --> 00:58:04,880
Nice feels, right, I think. 
And I think if you take a life, 

1097
00:58:06,480 --> 00:58:11,040
it's not funny, but you should 
go to prison for how many years 

1098
00:58:11,040 --> 00:58:13,880
you took away from that person, 
right? 

1099
00:58:14,480 --> 00:58:17,880
For example, a child. 
If you kill a child then you 

1100
00:58:17,880 --> 00:58:19,720
should go away for at least 85 
years. 

1101
00:58:19,720 --> 00:58:22,680
So it's based off of the. 
Times the lifespan. 

1102
00:58:22,920 --> 00:58:25,280
Lifespan. 
So you can go kill a 99 year old

1103
00:58:25,680 --> 00:58:28,440
and probably go like 30 days 
maybe. 

1104
00:58:28,760 --> 00:58:31,600
That wouldn't be good. 
No, I'm not saying it'd be good,

1105
00:58:31,600 --> 00:58:35,520
but I'm just saying like then 
theory like it'd be interesting 

1106
00:58:35,520 --> 00:58:37,720
it'd. 
Be interesting to see if that 

1107
00:58:37,720 --> 00:58:41,480
was the law. 
It'd be kind of fun to test and 

1108
00:58:41,480 --> 00:58:44,440
then people would just be 
killing 90 year old women or 

1109
00:58:44,440 --> 00:58:45,960
men. 
Or yeah, it's always women. 

1110
00:58:45,960 --> 00:58:47,960
Yeah, I don't know. 
Because it is because there's 

1111
00:58:47,960 --> 00:58:50,920
like, oh, you know, come take 
care of me and now I'm dead, you

1112
00:58:51,160 --> 00:58:53,000
know, type of thing, which 
sucks. 

1113
00:58:53,000 --> 00:58:55,760
I hate, I hate hearing about 
people who kill the elderly. 

1114
00:58:55,800 --> 00:58:56,840
When? 
Yeah. 

1115
00:58:56,920 --> 00:58:58,880
There's like they're just 
hanging. 

1116
00:58:58,960 --> 00:59:00,800
Yeah, they're just, that's like 
Nancy. 

1117
00:59:01,440 --> 00:59:03,840
Yeah, where the fuck where? 
Where's Sarah? 

1118
00:59:03,840 --> 00:59:05,920
Wasn't there a update in that 
case? 

1119
00:59:07,160 --> 00:59:08,800
Yeah, she's still. 
Patreon. 

1120
00:59:08,880 --> 00:59:17,200
She's still it's the update. 
She's can't find her Nancy. 

1121
00:59:17,480 --> 00:59:23,480
Marco. 
She's like Paulo. 

1122
00:59:27,040 --> 00:59:32,360
OK, sorry, 70 years. 
So the families of the victims 

1123
00:59:32,360 --> 00:59:35,040
were very furious with the FBI 
and how they handled the whole 

1124
00:59:35,040 --> 00:59:37,200
case. 
They believed that federal 

1125
00:59:37,200 --> 00:59:41,120
negligence gave Scott Kimball 
the freedom to kill and it's 

1126
00:59:41,120 --> 00:59:44,200
they should go to prison. 
They should go to prison, yes. 

1127
00:59:44,760 --> 00:59:49,240
Yeah, because, you know, 
obviously he was informant. 

1128
00:59:54,320 --> 00:59:56,240
I hope you were hoping this is 
going to be a fluid. 

1129
00:59:56,360 --> 00:59:59,200
Process. 
I knew it wasn't going to be I. 

1130
00:59:59,240 --> 01:00:06,720
Just saw your ass. 
I'm using gaming headphones to 

1131
01:00:06,720 --> 01:00:11,280
hear the mic and I just wrapped 
I coiled the microphone that's 

1132
01:00:11,280 --> 01:00:13,840
on the headset. 
And I didn't see it till pretzel

1133
01:00:13,840 --> 01:00:16,320
just now. 
It's just like a knot. 

1134
01:00:16,320 --> 01:00:21,360
Hi. 
Digress. 

1135
01:00:23,320 --> 01:00:29,200
Digress, OK. 
I saw it. 

1136
01:00:29,200 --> 01:00:33,120
Oh my God, look what I did. 
It's the. 

1137
01:00:35,280 --> 01:00:39,320
Sailors not. 
It's the sailors not OK. 

1138
01:00:39,720 --> 01:00:45,320
OK, so at the exact same time 
multiple victims disappeared, 

1139
01:00:45,320 --> 01:00:49,760
Kimball was obviously acting up 
as an A federal informant and 

1140
01:00:49,760 --> 01:00:53,120
victims families reported raised
concerns about him throughout 

1141
01:00:53,360 --> 01:00:56,040
his entire. 
They're like, hello, what the 

1142
01:00:56,040 --> 01:00:59,120
fuck FBI is like, no, we he's 
good. 

1143
01:00:59,120 --> 01:01:02,200
I know they defended him the 
whole time, so officials later 

1144
01:01:02,200 --> 01:01:06,000
responded saying, like I said, 
they lacked the resources or 

1145
01:01:06,000 --> 01:01:08,440
whatever. 
But that explanation wasn't 

1146
01:01:08,440 --> 01:01:11,560
enough for for the families, 
Yeah. 

1147
01:01:12,280 --> 01:01:16,400
What they do, Nothing. 
There wasn't really much to do. 

1148
01:01:16,440 --> 01:01:18,960
I would sue. 
I would sue. 

1149
01:01:19,640 --> 01:01:21,360
I would. 
Something. 

1150
01:01:21,600 --> 01:01:26,640
Yeah, something. 
So now Scott Lee Kimball remains

1151
01:01:26,640 --> 01:01:30,520
incarcerated today. 
In 2021, he was quietly 

1152
01:01:30,520 --> 01:01:33,840
transferred to a federal prison 
in Florida out of Colorado. 

1153
01:01:34,600 --> 01:01:39,080
I was just there. 
Why was he transferred me here? 

1154
01:01:39,400 --> 01:01:40,920
I should have checked in on him.
Why? 

1155
01:01:40,920 --> 01:01:43,600
Didn't you go see Scott? 
Yeah, I don't know. 

1156
01:01:43,680 --> 01:01:45,680
I didn't know. 
Why don't you tell me? 

1157
01:01:45,880 --> 01:01:49,080
I forgot. 
OK, Well, also, yeah, I don't 

1158
01:01:49,080 --> 01:01:51,920
know. 
OK, given his age and his 

1159
01:01:51,920 --> 01:01:53,520
sentence, he's most likely going
to die in prison. 

1160
01:01:54,720 --> 01:01:57,640
And they, the investigators knew
that when they were doing their 

1161
01:01:57,640 --> 01:02:01,880
little whatever. 
But I feel like also people and 

1162
01:02:02,160 --> 01:02:05,400
like some people after living 
like a life of crime and they 

1163
01:02:05,400 --> 01:02:07,600
know they can't like get away 
with it or whatever. 

1164
01:02:07,600 --> 01:02:08,840
And you? 
Got to just give up at that. 

1165
01:02:08,840 --> 01:02:10,600
Point Well, yeah, they got to 
give up at that point, but then 

1166
01:02:10,600 --> 01:02:12,280
also sometimes a life is just 
better. 

1167
01:02:12,440 --> 01:02:13,760
Yeah, in prison. 
True. 

1168
01:02:14,240 --> 01:02:17,440
True for them. 
Yeah, well, they have community 

1169
01:02:17,800 --> 01:02:20,640
food. 
Food and blankets. 

1170
01:02:21,680 --> 01:02:26,120
So Scott Lee Kimball is 59 years
old as of May 10th. 

1171
01:02:26,720 --> 01:02:29,280
Happy birthday 2026. 
Wait, is that today? 

1172
01:02:29,640 --> 01:02:31,480
I don't know if that's his 
birthday, but that's just how 

1173
01:02:31,480 --> 01:02:34,720
old he is as a best one. 
This was posted. 

1174
01:02:35,040 --> 01:02:36,520
Oh, that's today. 
That's today. 

1175
01:02:36,600 --> 01:02:39,320
Oh wow, that's today. 
Happy birthday. 

1176
01:02:42,560 --> 01:02:47,000
No, but and he's incarcerated 
until at least 2054 when he 

1177
01:02:47,000 --> 01:02:49,720
would be 88, so he could 
definitely he. 

1178
01:02:49,720 --> 01:02:52,680
Could get out still get out? 
Could he get on on good 

1179
01:02:52,680 --> 01:02:54,600
behavior? 
He probably doesn't. 

1180
01:02:55,040 --> 01:02:56,280
Oh, his birthday. 
Oh wait, we found out his 

1181
01:02:56,280 --> 01:02:57,960
birthday was September 21st. 
Whatever. 

1182
01:02:59,040 --> 01:03:02,680
He's labor. 
I don't know, let's find out. 

1183
01:03:03,200 --> 01:03:05,680
Is that Libra? 
I could be wrong signs. 

1184
01:03:06,040 --> 01:03:09,080
I feel like that's a Libra. 
OK, wait, no, that's a Virgo. 

1185
01:03:09,400 --> 01:03:11,120
I don't know actually. 
No, we're Virgos. 

1186
01:03:11,680 --> 01:03:14,120
Yes. 
Virgo's not. 

1187
01:03:14,280 --> 01:03:16,720
He couldn't be like us. 
No, he's not a Virgo. 

1188
01:03:17,120 --> 01:03:20,880
It's extremely unlikely he'll be
released on good behavior OK 

1189
01:03:21,120 --> 01:03:23,120
just because of the habitual 
nature of his. 

1190
01:03:23,120 --> 01:03:25,480
Crime. 
He's still young though. 59. 

1191
01:03:26,040 --> 01:03:28,040
Yeah, he could respond to 
letters, I bet. 

1192
01:03:28,440 --> 01:03:30,200
That's right, I'm. 
Going to write him. 

1193
01:03:31,040 --> 01:03:34,080
He probably will answer too, 
because he's he rubs the clout. 

1194
01:03:34,080 --> 01:03:36,000
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

1195
01:03:36,120 --> 01:03:42,040
Anyways, So again, there, we 
really don't know how many 

1196
01:03:42,040 --> 01:03:45,960
victims there are. 
Yeah. 

1197
01:03:46,200 --> 01:03:50,880
And that's kind of it. 
So this, this case was super 

1198
01:03:50,880 --> 01:03:52,880
huge, yeah. 
Because a lot. 

1199
01:03:53,160 --> 01:03:58,280
Everything that happened under 
the FBI's nose and their non 

1200
01:03:58,280 --> 01:04:02,200
willingness to listen to 
families and I mean like. 

1201
01:04:02,320 --> 01:04:04,320
Willingness. 
Non willing. 

1202
01:04:04,760 --> 01:04:09,800
They are non willing. 
It's a grammar I don't English 

1203
01:04:09,840 --> 01:04:14,720
college Notre Dame. 
That's really fucked up. 

1204
01:04:15,000 --> 01:04:17,360
It's really messed up. 
I've never heard of a case like 

1205
01:04:17,360 --> 01:04:23,520
that, especially where so many 
inmates are involved. 

1206
01:04:23,640 --> 01:04:28,360
Yeah, so much snitching, but 
also, like, they're just 

1207
01:04:28,360 --> 01:04:29,800
wondering where their girls are 
at. 

1208
01:04:30,080 --> 01:04:32,640
Yeah, they're like, yo, where my
girl at? 

1209
01:04:34,600 --> 01:04:36,240
Where my girl? 
At we're supposed to have 

1210
01:04:36,240 --> 01:04:37,520
visitation. 
Yeah. 

1211
01:04:37,920 --> 01:04:41,200
Why is she not here? 
Yeah, that's really fucked up. 

1212
01:04:41,720 --> 01:04:43,240
I'm supposed to get a letter 
tomorrow. 

1213
01:04:44,480 --> 01:04:48,800
I wonder if there were any 
reforms made in regards to 

1214
01:04:48,800 --> 01:04:52,480
informants and things like that 
when it comes to the FBI after 

1215
01:04:52,480 --> 01:04:54,120
that case. 
You should become one. 

1216
01:04:54,320 --> 01:05:00,720
Find out. 
Next week, Dana coming from 

1217
01:05:00,720 --> 01:05:04,640
federal prison. 
Really get the inside scoop. 

1218
01:05:05,960 --> 01:05:11,000
Just zoom in. 
We'll do prison. 

1219
01:05:11,000 --> 01:05:13,040
Calls day one of trying to 
become an informant. 

1220
01:05:15,160 --> 01:05:18,400
So there were some reforms made.
One of them that I thought was 

1221
01:05:18,400 --> 01:05:21,840
interesting was the stricter 
suitability assessments, which 

1222
01:05:21,920 --> 01:05:25,960
mandated rigorous background 
checks to the informant to 

1223
01:05:25,960 --> 01:05:29,880
determine whether they evaluate 
the informants fitness, focusing

1224
01:05:29,880 --> 01:05:32,280
on their motivations, criminal 
history and potential for 

1225
01:05:32,280 --> 01:05:34,520
manipulation. 
So a lot of stuff went into 

1226
01:05:35,080 --> 01:05:38,240
realizing manipulation is a 
tactic they use, which I don't 

1227
01:05:38,240 --> 01:05:41,280
know why that wasn't obvious. 
I mean, this is scary, right? 

1228
01:05:41,280 --> 01:05:43,920
Because it was early 2000s. 
We're not talking about the 

1229
01:05:44,200 --> 01:05:47,000
60's, the 70s. 
We're talking about yesterday. 

1230
01:05:47,000 --> 01:05:49,040
Right. 
And when there were so many 

1231
01:05:49,040 --> 01:05:54,000
other serial killers that 
attempted to do similar things 

1232
01:05:54,920 --> 01:05:59,320
to stay out of prison. 
I mean, yeah, I just, it is mind

1233
01:05:59,320 --> 01:06:01,280
boggling. 
There was another that's the 

1234
01:06:01,280 --> 01:06:06,760
mandatory supervisory review 
which they use high risk 

1235
01:06:06,760 --> 01:06:09,680
informants or authorized 
otherwise illegal activity when 

1236
01:06:10,880 --> 01:06:14,880
I don't know what this means. 
So they have to sign off from 

1237
01:06:14,880 --> 01:06:17,920
high-ranking officials before 
anything can happen. 

1238
01:06:18,640 --> 01:06:23,480
So there needs to be all of that
review on the back end prior to 

1239
01:06:23,520 --> 01:06:25,680
anything. 
So it's it's a lot of people are

1240
01:06:25,680 --> 01:06:28,720
now accountable. 
Yeah, it's not just. 

1241
01:06:28,920 --> 01:06:32,000
Yes, and there's someone who was
signing off, therefore they are 

1242
01:06:32,000 --> 01:06:33,600
liable, right? 
For it. 

1243
01:06:34,000 --> 01:06:38,240
I wonder too how much they were 
getting paid. 

1244
01:06:38,880 --> 01:06:42,000
I don't know. 
So it turns out Scott received a

1245
01:06:42,000 --> 01:06:45,680
total of $50,000 from the FBI 
during his time as an informant,

1246
01:06:45,680 --> 01:06:48,520
and that payments were made in 
cash during meetings with his 

1247
01:06:48,520 --> 01:06:52,280
handling agents. 
And he also had a cell phone and

1248
01:06:52,280 --> 01:06:55,720
earpiece. 
So much freedom, all of that 

1249
01:06:55,720 --> 01:06:57,720
stuff. 
Jesus, I mean just give him a 

1250
01:06:57,720 --> 01:07:00,320
fucking Amex. 
I know, and he was completely 

1251
01:07:00,320 --> 01:07:02,840
shielded from local law 
enforcement. 

1252
01:07:02,920 --> 01:07:04,600
Immunity from. 
From it all. 

1253
01:07:05,000 --> 01:07:06,200
Like if he were to get in 
trouble. 

1254
01:07:06,200 --> 01:07:08,280
If he was doing shady shit, wow.
Yeah. 

1255
01:07:08,840 --> 01:07:11,080
That's bananas. 
Unbelievable. 

1256
01:07:11,160 --> 01:07:13,760
Yeah. 
I mean that's what the average 

1257
01:07:13,760 --> 01:07:19,280
as of today, the average annual 
earnings which it's like a. 

1258
01:07:19,280 --> 01:07:22,160
Full time job? 
Yeah, that's a year's salary. 

1259
01:07:22,640 --> 01:07:28,400
They make $41,000 a year as of 
May 2026. 

1260
01:07:28,400 --> 01:07:31,480
Again, that's average, right? 
So if you're doing like part 

1261
01:07:31,480 --> 01:07:33,880
time. 
And he's just, he's killing 

1262
01:07:33,880 --> 01:07:36,480
people and getting paid this by 
the government. 

1263
01:07:36,920 --> 01:07:39,000
Right. 
Like I mean, and I can't get a 

1264
01:07:39,000 --> 01:07:43,720
break on my fucking taxes and. 
He's like, hey, I found a dead 

1265
01:07:43,720 --> 01:07:45,760
body. 
Making it rain on him while he's

1266
01:07:45,840 --> 01:07:48,680
out here raping and. 
And. 

1267
01:07:49,080 --> 01:07:52,280
Getting plunkers. 
Unbelievable. 

1268
01:07:52,800 --> 01:07:54,440
That is wild. 
That was a good case. 

1269
01:07:54,440 --> 01:07:57,080
This mean that. 
Was really good, really, really 

1270
01:07:57,080 --> 01:07:59,880
interesting. 
I loved the FBI piece. 

1271
01:07:59,880 --> 01:08:02,000
I thought that was really cool. 
Never heard that before. 

1272
01:08:02,360 --> 01:08:06,120
Anything with an FBI involved 10
out of 10. 10 out of 10. 

1273
01:08:06,160 --> 01:08:07,640
Recommend. 
Hell yeah. 

1274
01:08:07,720 --> 01:08:09,320
Well, thank you for coming on 
the pod. 

1275
01:08:09,440 --> 01:08:11,440
Thank you. 
So exciting. 

1276
01:08:11,920 --> 01:08:16,520
And guys, we have our Patreon, 
like we said, is getting set up 

1277
01:08:16,520 --> 01:08:25,680
this week and we're also going 
to the serial killer talk with 

1278
01:08:25,680 --> 01:08:29,359
the doctor that's coming. 
Doctor Rachel tolls, I remember 

1279
01:08:29,359 --> 01:08:30,359
it says. 
I had to look it up that one 

1280
01:08:30,359 --> 01:08:33,080
time. 
That will be again on our 

1281
01:08:33,080 --> 01:08:37,680
Patreon next week. 
We have a really good episode 

1282
01:08:37,680 --> 01:08:40,680
for you, so make sure you follow
like. 

1283
01:08:40,760 --> 01:08:42,319
She's been working on her whole 
life. 

1284
01:08:42,640 --> 01:08:46,479
I It's so hard and I hope that 
it works out. 

1285
01:08:46,800 --> 01:08:49,080
I hope that it's like fluid. 
I'm sure that it will be. 

1286
01:08:49,080 --> 01:08:50,520
That's my fear. 
We always. 

1287
01:08:50,760 --> 01:08:53,279
Yeah. 
Say that it's not going to piece

1288
01:08:53,279 --> 01:08:54,520
together. 
And then it does. 

1289
01:08:54,520 --> 01:08:56,840
And it still doesn't. 
But it's OK, I'm just kidding. 

1290
01:08:57,120 --> 01:08:59,000
It's totally fine. 
It doesn't matter. 

1291
01:08:59,000 --> 01:09:00,920
But yeah, the Patreon $4.00. 
Yep. 

1292
01:09:02,399 --> 01:09:06,279
And that's. 
Instagram, TikTok, I don't look 

1293
01:09:06,279 --> 01:09:09,000
at X still. 
We're on YouTube, yes, not 

1294
01:09:09,000 --> 01:09:11,040
videos yet. 
No, but our. 

1295
01:09:11,040 --> 01:09:13,439
Our podcast, you can listen to 
it on YouTube. 

1296
01:09:13,600 --> 01:09:17,040
Yeah, and Eastman's on Instagram
and Tik. 

1297
01:09:17,040 --> 01:09:19,439
T.O.K Yep, you want to drop your
handles. 

1298
01:09:19,760 --> 01:09:23,399
If you can follow me on 
Instagram at Yesman dot Mustafa.

1299
01:09:23,399 --> 01:09:26,279
No, just you suck. 
Yesman Mustafa. 

1300
01:09:27,200 --> 01:09:29,319
Do I need to spell it? 
No, you'll they'll find. 

1301
01:09:29,399 --> 01:09:30,080
You OK? 
Yeah. 

1302
01:09:30,080 --> 01:09:32,920
And then we'll tag you. 
OK, we'll tag you and then 

1303
01:09:32,920 --> 01:09:36,040
TikTok Yasmeen Mustafa 2A's at 
the end. 

1304
01:09:42,000 --> 01:09:45,240
All right, stay safe. 
And remember, we didn't do it.