I'm Aaron and I'm Dana, and this is crimes we didn't commit.
OK, here we go. We're back.
We are back. Back I haven't seen you in.
In many days, a long time I. Went to Florida.
You left and then came back with another person.
Yes, I did. Yasmeen is here.
Hello. Hello my sister.
Welcome to the pod. We're excited you're here.
How long did it take you to do this, to bring a story?
A week. That's really not bad because
mine's taken 3. But then I started with one
story and then I almost finished it and I was like, that's
boring. And then I started another story
and I was halfway through it, and then I was like, that's,
that's also boring. So then I finally did this one.
So this better be good there's. A lot of hype behind this.
Hopefully. I'm pretty excited.
My SO it got some feedback regarding our talking.
We do too much. We talk too much.
Well, here's what I'm thinking. Don't listen.
Fast forward. Yeah, Fast forward.
Spotify has chapters. They do, and I think Apple has
chapters too, but don't quote me on that.
I won't because I'm not. Sure.
I never would. But I do know also is we have
1000 listens. Which is so cool.
So exciting. Are you one of the listens?
Yes, I am. I know that I'm like 10 of them.
I'm a solid 10, probably, maybe 15.
It's so exciting, so exciting. It's a lot of support that we've
gotten. Yeah.
From when we started from sitting on the floor at workout
class yes to now. Yeah, and we don't have 1000
followers. Which?
But we'll get there, so. Follow.
Yeah. So follow.
If you listen, just follow. Even if you don't listen
anymore, just follow. Yep.
It's not gonna do anything. It's free.
It really helps. I follow.
I am following. We love that.
If you're not, get out. Yep.
Oh, I hit my stand goal. Your stand, I guess.
What does that mean? I was standing.
How do you know if you're standing?
I'm not sure. Not sure how technology works.
Is it interesting? How does it count my steps?
Movement. So standing.
Like if you shook your hand a bajillion times it would count
of steps, really. I have someone at work who tries
to meet their steps so they just keep shaking their hands.
I'm like, that's cheating. Like how was that?
That doesn't meet. Their that's fucking cheating
it. Is 100% I've done that before
just to make myself feel better in my brain.
So you can also do competitions with like friends on your
activity app or whatever. And so I'll do it's like a seven
day challenge and I will cheat. So I've won every single
challenge you're. Outing yourself to everyone,
right? Now, well, not every time I'll
cheat, but if if someone's actually like beating me and I'm
like, what the fuck is going on here?
They're cheating. I'll start like a a yoga
workout. So it'll count as like movement
will count as exercise, but I'm just chilling on the couch.
You're standing. I'm yeah, I'm literally laying
down. I'm in Chevaka for like an hour
and yeah, so that's how I'll win those challenges.
So if you guys want to fuck with me.
You're just sitting at home. Just go.
Just aggressively see her in the mirror as you pass her house.
Just like, shit, That's funny. So you're in Colorado?
Yeah, I am. How's the weather there right
now? Bipolar, yeah.
Wasn't it like snowing and then hot?
Yeah, it snowed like 6 inches one day and then it was sunshine
and like 70° the next day. No, can't do it.
It's really annoying. I can't do it.
Where in Colorado? Englewood, Co.
So Denver area. OK, got it.
What's your address? It is don't kill me we're.
Going to get APO box 1 day. We will get APO box Also last
night I was I've been looking up the addresses to some serial
killers that are incarcerated and I have like inmate numbers
and addresses. So I'm going to type up like a
letter to send them and see if they respond.
I mean, what's what can be nothing lost, right?
Like might as well try it. Not at all.
Imagine. That would be so weird that.
'D be kind of cool to get a litter back.
That would be so cool, right? And like a.
Picture have her address on there there.
Wouldn't no so. When we get APO box.
So that's another thing I was reading is don't OK, well your
address on a letter to a killer. Why?
Yeah, we would need to get APO box.
Honestly, it'd be funny to put like somebody's address that you
don't like. That would be oh that.
Would be great. Except for I feel like that
could be traced back to us somehow.
That probably is some federal offense or something.
Oh yeah, I don't know. I don't either.
Maybe not. Probably not.
Probably I feel like it. Would be like, do you have to
put a return address on a letter?
I don't think you do. I don't think you do.
Someone tell us. Yeah, I'll ask how to use
Google. I'll ask chat.
When I when I had to mail in, I had to mail a package and they
wouldn't let me mail unless I put a return address.
On Was that like UPS? Or something.
It was USPS. Really.
Yeah. But that's a package though.
I'm not trying to send these guys like a candle.
I just want to send them a letter.
I think that that would work. This candle is called
Decapitated Jasmine. Yeah, but I I am going to do
that. I am going to send letters.
OK, that's. Cool.
And tell them what our podcast name is.
Yeah. Because, you know, there's no
bad press. That's right.
All the inmates are listening to our podcast.
They're like, yo do me. What if they like started
sending us some like extra secrets?
Oh, we're going to talk about it.
Yeah. We're going to tell everybody.
Honestly, that's the type of shit we'll put on our Patreon
too, you know? And that is coming soon.
Sometime very, very soon. Yes.
So if you're ready to drop them $4.00 a month for some extra
shit, for some inner circle shit, we'll be ready.
Baking videos. Yeah, like killer banana bread.
Homicidal Cookies. Honestly, merge it.
Would be yeah, we should come up with recipe.
Yeah, just for fun. Well, certain bakery.
We will. Start.
No idea what's going to come out of.
This no. We have so many things.
Something y'all know? I know in the future if we had
like a manager or something, they'll be like, dude, you need
to narrow it down. You're doing way too much.
Meanwhile, we're sitting in a six year old's bedroom.
Recording this. We're sharing a mic.
That's right. We need $4.00.
I mean, I have a stuffed corn next to me.
Oh man, what a good time. Such a good time.
What a good freaking. Did you want to talk about
something that happened or information that you found out
recently or no, did you not want to talk about that?
No, it's just I found out someone I knew knew had a
murderer in their family or something.
OK, that's too personal. We won't.
No, OK, Not today. Maybe check the page out.
OK, cool, cool, cool, cool. But.
Yeah, another time. Yeah, in another.
OK. Oh, let's talk about yes means
case. Oh yeah, that's why you're here.
Yes, I worked too hard for this. You really did.
She worked. It was stressing.
Me out. I don't know how you guys do
this. I don't know either.
I don't know what this is on me. I don't know either.
Honestly, I'm not sure it's confusing.
Yeah, I get it. How we come up with shit?
I don't know either when we need it.
Yeah, but it happens. It does.
It always works out. Every time.
Yep, like most things. Yep, I guess.
Yes, yeah. But we need to catch back, catch
up more on episodes. We're like, we don't have a lot
in the library right now, no. We don't, we don't have anything
in the library. Yeah, I don't think.
We'll get there. Except for that one case that I
did, but it just sounded dumb. It was all over the place.
I liked it. I didn't.
I liked it. Which one?
I'm not telling you it's a secret secret.
Coming soon. I like secrets.
Secret secrets are no fun unless you share them with everyone.
What if you said that to like a murderer?
And they're just like, oh wow, you're right.
Right, I can't talk about it. So I have to, yeah.
So today we're talking about one of the strangest serial killer
cases in modern American crime history.
Not just because of the murders, not just because of the lies,
but because for part of the killing spree, the man at the
center of it all was actually working with the FBI.
Oh, that's so cool. That would be so cool.
Oh my God. I would love to be that person.
I would too, but. But not to murder, be the
killer. Yeah, No, I don't want to.
But I want to be involved in the investigation.
I want to be involved with it and I want to be the
investigation. Dexter.
That's so cool. OK, that's awesome.
OK, except, I mean, you wouldn't want to be the FBI realizing
that this all happened. No true idiots.
All right, so this story is the story of Scott Lee Kimball.
He's a con artist, fraudster, serial manipulator, FBI
informant, and convicted killer. And the deeper you go into the
case, the more unbelievable it becomes, because almost everyone
who crossed paths with Scott Kimball walked away with the
same impression. He talked constantly, he always
had a story, and he always seemed connected.
And somehow he always managed to convince people he was more
important, more dangerous, and more powerful than he really
was. A narcissist.
That's right. So for years, he manipulated
girlfriends, family members, law enforcements, fellow inmates and
eventually even federal agents. By the time the investigators
finally untangle what was happening, at least four people
were dead, and many investigators believe the real
number could be much higher. It involves missing women, fake
identities, forged documents, prison informants, staged phone
calls, hidden remains in remote wilderness areas and a killer
who seemed to enjoy controlling people almost as much as he
enjoyed killing them. God.
And somehow, for years, he kept getting away with it.
What a fucking weirdo. I can't wait.
I mean, I had something in my throat.
I had a tickle in my throat. But how cool?
I mean, God, it sounds bad when you say how cool is that?
No, but it is cool. You see it as a movie.
That's what I. Was just thinking it sounds like
a made for TV. Movie.
Movie made for TV or made for made for anyway?
Anywhere it was, it was made to watch.
It was made to see. Is there a movie?
There was a 48 hour and a couple.
There's a couple like documentaries.
OK. But there should be a good
enough movie. Yeah.
We're we're doing that. No one can do it.
We're we're doing. Don't make it.
That's ours. I'm going to make it.
OK, goodbye. All right, so who is Scott
Kimball? So Scott Kimball was born
September 21st, 1966 in Boulder, Co and grew up in nearby.
You live there? Not border.
OK, I live Colorado. Yeah.
It was like 2 hours, like an hour away.
OK. From where he grew up.
She knows him. Oh, you know him personally?
Wow. You dated him?
I did. He was your.
Ex. That's right.
What a fucker. Just a little older than me.
Fuck Scott. My neighbour's name is Scott.
We just. Need to open up?
He makes lovely cookies. Imagine he's like, wait a
minute, fuck Scott, what did I do?
OK, sorry. No, you're good.
OK, So his childhood was chaotic almost immediately.
His parents divorced when he was around 10 years old.
His mother later entered a same sex relationship.
And according to retired FBI Special Agent Johnny Gressing,
investigators believe this may have contributed to Kimball
developing resentment towards women at a young age.
Rude. Hang on, That's what I'm saying.
That's a little weird little. Rude as hoe, anyways.
So people who later studied Kimball's behavior believed he
learned early on how to manipulate emotions, especially
women's emotions. By his teenage years, he had
already already developed what investigators described as a
game. He enjoyed convincing people to
do things they normally wouldn't do.
He would love bomb women. He'd shower them with attention,
affection, stories, promises, until they became emotionally
attached to him. Then he would manipulate them,
isolate them and control them. That's the worst kind of guy.
Yeah, that's, I mean, anytime any of my friends are like, oh,
he's loves me so much. She's taking me out all the time
and all this stuff and I'm just like, that guy sucks.
Well, then you start to see your friend less and less.
Yeah. And less.
Yeah, because that's. That's it.
He. Wants her to completely and
utterly depend upon him. Yeah, that's right.
And they're just the worst. Is gross.
Yeah. And he he would try to like pull
his pull girlfriends away from their boyfriends just to like, I
think he like gets like this rush.
Off of it, it's a power control. You're mine.
You're going to be mine. You know, in an ownership kind
of way. What a sick fucker.
All right, but there was something darker happening
behind the scenes of it all. After Kimball and his younger
brother moved in with their grandmother following the
divorce, a neighbor named Theodore Peyton began sexually
abusing the boys. The abuse reportedly lasted
nearly a decade. I was about to say I love the
name Theodore, but then you said that and I was like, never mind.
I know I like the name because like Teddy, I think it's so
cute. I just.
Love it, I think it's precious. I'll make me think.
I'm sorry. I have a thought.
I should like pull the microphone over to me and take
it away from you. See.
OK, I'm here. I.
Don't wait. Have we told the people that you
guys are sharing I. Think so, Yeah, we mentioned at
the beginning. OK.
All right. Stop talking, I'm using it.
OK. But I don't remember what I was
gonna say, so here you go, you got back.
Thank you. OK, thanks.
OK, so Theodore was an asshole. Yes he was.
So he was sexually abusing the boys but then it later escalated
from inappropriate touching and photographs to violent assaults
and rape and then years later, when Kimball was 23 years old,
he attempted suicide by shooting himself in the head.
The bullet grazed his skull, leaving a visible.
How bad is your aim? When you sound attempted to
shoot himself in the head, the attempt word got me.
It just got me because how do you how do you shoot yourself in
the head and not die? Yeah, I mean.
That's that's true. That's valid.
OK, sorry. No, I probably shouldn't have
laughed. I'm not laughing at suicide.
It's awful. Oh.
Yeah. No, but it did leave a visible
scar on his forehead. But like, if you shoot, if you
shoot yourself in the head and you graze it, you're not
shooting. You're not, you're not touching
your head. No.
How do you? So he has a little baby scar on
his for it? Yeah.
What's that? I was trying to kill myself.
It's a bullet. Bullet scratch.
Oopsie. Oh my God.
OK, OK. Suicide is not funny.
OK, No, it's not. Bring that back to me.
Thank you. OK, So then it left his guard on
his forehead. And then afterward, Kimball and
other victims finally reported Peyton to the police.
And then in 1991, Peyton was convicted on multiple sexual
assault, murder or counts. People close to Kimball later
said that the abuse fundamentally changed him.
One relative said it was like he had lost his conscience.
And then others described him as even like previous girlfriends
that he had, a deep shame and emotional emptiness that seemed
to harden into manipulation, deception and cruelty.
That makes sense. I think someone who's been
sexually assaulted as a child now has to have some sort of
control on their life. And maybe that's why because you
hear like people who have been assaulted at a young age tend to
do that when they're older to others.
And I think it is some sort of control situation.
And I think we'll find out more on Monday, next Monday when we
go to. Wednesday.
It's on Monday. It's on Wednesday this week.
It's on a Pillar day. Yeah.
Yes, on Wednesday when we go, we'll probably find out more
about that in the Triangle. Kept that Monday hang out.
Kept that Monday, sorry calendars.
So whatever psychological damage existed, it didn't stop there,
because by adulthood, Scott Kimball had already begun
building a life around fraud, lies, and crime.
And eventually, those lies escalated to something much
worse than scams. Looking into his criminal
background, Scott Kimball's first felony conviction came at
the age of 22 for passing bad checks.
But that was only the beginning. Over the years, he built
extensive criminal records involving financial fraud,
forged documents, burglary, scams, fake identities, stolen
property, illegal businesses. And then he constantly moved
state to state, often using aliases to stay ahead of
authorities. To outsiders, he could appear
charming, intelligent, even successful.
But underneath investigators, Layers said that he was
essentially living a career as a con artist.
So hang on, what is he doing with all this money?
If he's like trying to steal money, do all that.
What do people actually do? If you're on the run, what are
you doing with that money? I feel like with him because
he's such a narcissist, you know, and he's very just
obsessed with himself. It's just proving to himself
something I don't know that he's, he's moving a lot.
So he. Does he need nice things?
Is it the clothes? Does he need to look like a
hood? Rich I guess is what they say.
Like you have all the nice things, but literally you have
nothing. Else, right, Right.
And then the other thing not related to that, most people
that I've looked into, you said he is a murderer.
Yeah. That have a background like
this, like an extensive background when it comes to like
illegal businesses, property identity scams, burglary.
I feel like a lot of them, their intention is never to really
murder. I don't know.
I don't know where this thought is going.
It's just. Interesting when it escalates to
murder because that's their thing is scamming people.
Well, and I think we've talked about this before on previous
episodes where there's different types of killers.
Yeah, right. There's the killers that.
That kill to kill like the. Empathy that are just like
wanting to just do the, you know, kill.
And then there's the killers that have empathy, do crimes
like this, the stealing, the this, the fraud that.
And it's more of like an impulse kill, right?
Like you don't want to get caught so you have to get rid of
this. That makes sense.
Witness or whatever. And then there's a couple others
that I can't remember, but those two, you know, for example, are
the 2 extremes. That makes sense, yeah.
Yeah, I feel like for him is is probably a control manipulation
piece. Yeah, so.
He's probably got a temper too, I bet.
I, I bet he's angry. I don't think he would because
he would like, he liked to be perceived as someone who was
like super well put together and everything.
So let's see, where were we? In 2000, Kimball landed in
prison in Montana after violating probation tied to
another fraud conviction involving a Ford's $25,000
check. And then from there, things
escalated quickly. He transferred to a halfway
house and then escaped in 2001. And then while on the run, he
stole a truck, fled to Washington, kidnapped and raped
a woman, then escaped again to Alaska while pretending to be
his brother. Eventually, authorities caught
him and returned him to prison, and most people at that point
would disappear into the system. But Scott Kimball saw
opportunity because prison gave him access to exactly what he
needed most, people to manipulate.
And somehow he managed to convince the FBI to trust him.
This I'm excited about. Plus like who goes to He went
from Montana to Alaska. So he so when he was in Colorado
and he lived with his grandma after the parents divorced after
it was like around his later high school years, he moved to
Montana to live with his his dad.
OK. And then he got.
In trouble in. Trouble went to prison and then
he escaped that halfway house. OK.
And then that's when he went to to.
Washington. Washington and then Alaska.
And then Alaska to escape the rape.
Got it with. Yeah.
So while incarcerated in Washington state, Kimball began
offering information to investigators.
This is actually a common route into becoming informant.
A prisoner claims to know about criminal activity.
Law enforcement evaluates whether the information is
useful. And cooperation can sometimes
reduce sentences or improve prison conditions.
Kimball understood that system perfectly.
One of his cellmates was a name. Name.
What was his name? His name?
Steve Ennis. Steve.
Steve, who was so that Steve Ennis was involved in an ecstasy
distribution investigation in the Denver area.
Kimball told federal agents that there was a murder for hire plot
involving Ennis and Ennis's girlfriend Jennifer Markham.
But is it true? TBD, OK.
Next week. OK, so according to Kimball,
they were planning to kill. So Ennison and his girlfriend
were planning to kill a witness tied to the case.
The FBI believed Kimball, and somehow Kimball convinced
federal agents that he would make a valuable paid informant.
So by the end of 2002, he was back on the streets in Colorado
with minimal supervision. That decision will later become
one of the most controversial aspects of this entire case.
Former investigators later admitted Kimball was an
extraordinary manipulator. Well, I bet they better say
that. Extraordinarily manipulative.
Extraordinaire. He was an extraordinary
manipulation, yes. He appeared calm, cooperative
and intelligent. One retired FBI agent later said
Kimball seemed to leave bread crumbs inside FBI files, tiny
hints and statements that in hindsight pointed back back to
him. Whoa.
Why would he do that? Why?
Like it's just to prove something to himself.
That's exactly right. Because he has like, that's
right. You will never fucking catch me
kind of thing. Yeah.
Wow. And he, that's he, like, got off
on that. So.
But at that time, nobody realized what they were looking
at. And during this exact time
period, people around Scott Kimmel began disappearing.
The first young mother named Jennifer Markham, was the first
murder victim. So as we recall, Jennifer
Markham is Steve Eddis's girlfriend.
Oh, OK. Ecstasy.
There's a lot of like. Connections, yeah, So a lot of
red twine between. Which is like the little bread
crumbs that he was kind of leading.
Yes. OK, so who's Jennifer Markham?
She was a 25 year old from the Denver area.
She was a single mother raising a four year old child.
Single mom happy nose snaps anyway.
OK. She was raising a four year old
child while working as a stripper to survive.
People close to her described someone as described her as
someone struggling financially but still trying to hold her
life together. Then on February 17th, 2003,
Jennifer visited her boyfriend Steve Ennis in prison and then
shortly afterwards she vanished. At first there were very few
answers. Then about a year later,
Jennifer's parents received a phone call from the FBI.
Agents told them something terrible may have happened to
her, to their daughter. Jennifer's phone had last been
used on the same day she disappeared, and her 1996 Saturn
sedan had been found abandoned at the Denver airport.
But there was one major problem. Jennifer had no outgoing flight
scheduled that day. Then the FBI introduced Jennifer
Jennifer's parents to one of their informants, Scott Kimball.
Oh God. Kimmel claimed he knew exactly
what happened to Jennifer. He told them that she travelled
to New to New York to buy a handgun tied tied to this
supposed murder for hire plot. Then he claimed she had been
murdered by an associate connected to her boyfriend's
associate. The drugs.
Yeah, Yeah. Because they feared she might
testify. So, according to Kimball,
Jennifer had been tied up and strangled from behind after
putting up a fight. He even claimed to possess a
photograph of her dead body. Then he made an even more
disturbing statement. He said her remains were
somewhere near Rifle, Co and claimed he had been asked to dig
up her body to removed her breast implants and IUD because
the serial numbers could identify her.
Wait a second. Yeah, I mean the serial number.
That's true. Yeah, but I I would have never
thought of that. Why does he have so much detail?
He has a. Lot of detail and also it's
after the fact. I have a picture, yeah, of her
dead from strangulation while I'm in prison.
With no boobs. None.
But that's the thing. Because he's, he's a paid
informant and he's like undercover.
He's like going. I know, of course I.
Found all this. Information and then but then to
obviously you know. So he's doing it for the check.
He is, but then he also is doing it to get off on the fact like,
oh, I'm doing all this under the FBI's nose, Yes.
Both things are true. But then on top of that, first
she disappears and then he has all this information like
there's no, there's no other way for this information to come
about. Like, there's no way to validate
this, right? Because the FBI is not going to
be talking to some. There's no other people for them
to talk to, right? You know.
He's the only person, yeah, so trying to make himself valuable.
Gross. I mean, like, for someone who's
like, a manipulator, they probably love feeling valued,
Yes. Anyways, OK, so Kimball offered
to take Jennifer's parents into the mountains to show them where
she was, but they refused because they believe that if
they got into a vehicle with Scott Kimball, they might never
come back. OK.
Even they know his number and the FBI is like, no, he's valued
asset he. What?
That's true. So Jennifer's parents became
like super suspicious about good Scott Kimball, and they voiced
their concerns to the FBI, but then the agents actually
defended Kimball. Yep, I knew it they.
Were like, yeah, he's a valuable whatever he's helped with other.
You wouldn't know all this information if it wasn't for
him. Yep.
So Jennifer's parents thought that by bringing Kimball like to
have that conversation with Kimball and the parents, it was
the FB is way of saying like, Hey, your daughter, like she had
a bad like life is like a stripper or whatever.
You know, you now you have some answers like just can you just
leave us alone? Like fuck off.
That's what they felt like, the parents said.
Yeah, I mean, I don't know how I would feel, you know what I
mean? I would want answers
immediately, and if they're not giving them to me, they're not
doing their job. But if I'm getting answers from
a sketch source, yeah, I'm going to be like, those aren't the
answers that I wanted. How reliable is this fucker?
Right. Like, I don't know.
What's his track right? If my vibes, if the vibes are
off, yeah, I'm not going to believe you.
If you're not doing your job and you're relying on this fucking
piece of shit, right, no. No.
They shouldn't be an agent. And they're completely trusting
what he has to say. There's no FBI investigation on
their end. Right at all, right?
Unbelievable. So Jennifer's family, mainly her
dad, took matters into their own hands and they put it
billboards. They appear on television, they
begged for information, and then eventually someone started
listening because Jennifer wouldn't be the only person
connected to Scott Kimball who disappeared so.
Yeah. We're going to talk about,
we'll, we'll do a little full circle, but we're going to talk
about Casey MC Lloyd. She was another victim.
She was 19 years old. She was the daughter of
Kimball's wife at the time, Lori MC Lloyd.
OK, so it's like hit her, his stepdaughter, OK.
So, friends and family. The way you came with his step
son, his mom. Sorry.
So friends and family described Casey as bright, bubbly, fun
loving and eager to please. She danced and sang all the
time. But after her parents divorced,
things began spiraling. Casey became rebellious.
She started using drugs, was a runaway, falling into dangerous
situations. Then in August of 2003, after an
argument with her mom over drugs found inside the house, Casey
grabbed her bicycle and rode away.
It was thought that Scott Kimball may have planted those
drugs to try to get her isolated.
Like as in, but she was using drugs, so you think that maybe
he's helped her start using drugs?
No, no, because she started using drugs prior to Kimball
being in her life. But she was trying.
She's starting to get on the right path.
And then when her mom found the drugs in the house, she, Casey
kept saying, no, those are not my drugs.
Like, I swear those are not mine.
And then they had an argument and then she just ran away.
So yeah, I mean, I wouldn't put it past Kimball to do that.
I've also said those aren't my drugs when they were my drugs.
So I mean, either way, right? Yeah, either way.
Plus, divorce really fucks people up.
That's true. Just want to say that true for
that. Shout out to all the traumatized
kids out there. Feel like we're all traumatized.
We talked about that at lunch. Yeah, we went to a brunch.
Mother's Day. Mother's Day brunch.
Happy Mother's Day to all the mothers by.
The way Mother's Day. To all of you out there, anyway,
so yeah, we were all talking about how trauma, because it
sounds dumb when you talk about trauma, but you know, but you
know, it's an actual important thing to to reflect upon.
Yep, that was that was it. OK.
Thank you for your information. That sounds like a great lunch.
Pass the salt. Trauma.
It's funny how freely we like talk about.
I mean, I think it's great that we can freely talk about that
kind of stuff and like all together.
Mama does start, though. No, I think that's how we.
Love you, Mama. She listens.
Oh, yeah. Hello.
Hey, Mommy. That's how my sisters are
though. We talk about the most
traumatizing shit and we laugh about it inside.
We're crying, but we're laughing.
That's right. So I'll cry later, probably
anyway. So she laughed.
Because drugs. Yes, and she swore that she
didn't. She's not the one who put them
there. OK, So at first, her family
thought she would return like she always had before.
But then two days later, she missed work at the sandwich shop
where she was employed. And suddenly everyone knew
something was wrong. When Lori, which is the mom,
Casey's mom, tried to report her missing, police refused because
Casey was legally an adult, so she had every right to leave.
And to be allowed to file a report, there had to be proof of
foul play. Oh.
My God, I think that's stupid. It is so dumb.
But during this time, Scott Kimball stayed close to the
family, and he promised Lori that he would find her weeks
later. He even claimed that a neighbor
had recently seen Casey with their boyfriend and sister.
But then weeks, months, and then a year went by without hearing
from her, and now Casey's mom and dad were convinced something
bad had happened to her. I know.
Then Casey's best friend, Tabitha Morton, began
investigating herself. She noticed something chilling.
Scott Kimball disappeared at the exact same time as Casey did.
That realization triggered a chain reaction.
This is when Rob Mcloyd, Casey's dad, started digging deeper and
eventually ran across another article about another missing
woman connected to Scott Kimball.
The importance of friends. Yes.
That's, I mean, that was it. It's extremely that they
recognize certain things like that.
They pay attention to your life enough.
Like even on the way back from Florida, you're like, you're in
North Carolina now because you have my location.
Oh, if any of my friends went missing.
Oh, you'd know. I.
Will find them yes because when you're like the taken guy when
you become into I have a certain set of skills When you become
like in my circle yeah I am asking for your location because
I need it and yeah I'm I'm just going to know where you're at
and if something's off I'll find you.
You're like, welcome to North Carolina.
I'm like I literally cross the border.
You're like looking around when. Looking at your location, I was
like, oh, she's 20 minutes away. See, it's nice.
It's nice to have locations. Like, oh, you're in South
Carolina now? See you soon.
Yeah, it's a real thing. OK.
Plus, you have to check locations sometimes before you,
like, call that person. So if I'm going to call like my
sister, I'll be like, OK, is she at home?
Because if she's at home, she'll probably answer.
If she's not, you know. I didn't even think of that.
Yeah, I never check anything before I call.
I rarely. I don't check locations that
much. Yeah, well, I was going to call
you once and I looked at your location.
You were at the HT. So I was like, I can't call.
Her oh that makes sense. That makes.
I probably would have picked up so yeah, but.
Maybe I just didn't want to bug you.
Yeah, it wasn't important. Yeah.
Hey. Hey look at this.
This is stupid so. Look at my nail.
Do you think we need this for the podcast?
And you're like Aaron, no. But yes.
Yeah, OK. Sorry, no.
OK, so again, that's when Rob Mcloy, Casey's dad, started
digging deeper, and then he saw that connection with another
missing woman, which is Jennifer Markham.
As we recall, Jennifer's dad put up billboards and he was on TV
and everything, so there was stuff about him.
Rob Mcloyd made that connection with that.
So Rob MacLeod reached out to Jennifer's dad, Bob Markham, and
then they began starting to investigate on their own.
Perfect love that. But the next disappearance made
things even darker, because this victim was Scott Kimball's own
uncle. Oh my God.
I mean, spread out, you know. Pick people you're not connected
to I. Mean.
It's murder one O 1. Is is during this time he's
working for the FBI. Yeah.
And he's like, I'm just going to whack my uncle.
Who can I? Hey, excuse me.
FBI. Yeah, the bosses.
My uncle's missing. Can you help me find him?
Actually, I know. Actually I have a picture of
him. I have a picture of his.
Body can you? He was stabbed 4 times in the
neck. And all his money's gone.
Also, can I have a bank account? That'll be a $50,000.
What about a bonus on this third body?
Now that's. Right.
OK, so Terry Kimball was Scott Kimball's 6 year old uncle.
In 2004 Terry came to stay with Scott and his wife Laurie McCoy
for a short period of time. Then suddenly, on September 1st,
2004, when Terry left, he was never seen again.
Scott's explanation? Terry had supposedly won the
lottery in Ohio and moved to Mexico With a stripper.
With a stripper. With Jennifer, come up with
better stories, like something more believable.
What an idiot. You know, I feel like he felt
invincible, yes, because he was like, I'm an informant.
Well, I'm being paid by the hang on though, because I mean the
wife is probably like what the fuck?
He won the lottery and didn't like give us anything.
He just left. It well Terry wasn't even wasn't
related to Laurie Mcloyd. Laurie was Scott's.
Why? Well, that's what I mean.
Scott was living. The uncle was living with Scott
and his wife. So yes, so later it'll come to
the investigators when they do their investigative shit, they
find out that Scott probably killed Terry because they found
out that he got the wife, his wife.
I'm confused. So an affair, no.
So Scott Kimball killed his uncle Terry because Terry got a
divorce and he he like soon after that he had a lot of money
from that divorce. So they think that.
Scott. Killed him from that.
So possibly like it just I didn't see anything specifically
about that. Like it went into Lori's life or
whatever, but he wanted to acquire some money.
OK, that makes sense. OK.
So although the story sound absurd, there wasn't enough
evidence to prove otherwise. Then in June 2006, when remember
when Bob Markham and Rob McCoy connected with each other and
they started comparing notes, they talked to Lori McCoy and
then they suddenly remember Terry, another person who had
entered Scott Kimball's orbit and was never seen again.
So they started to realize that all these people that are
connected to Scott are not being found again.
And we talked about so Terry, they obviously suspected that
Scott murdered Terry for financial reasons and that was
enough motive to tie him to that case.
But then, sorry. OK.
So then at that point, law enforcement was beginning to
realize they weren't looking at isolated disappearance anymore
and that they might have a serial killer on their hands.
That investigators uncovered another missing woman, one who
kept referring to a mysterious man named Hannibal.
OK. Like does do they not realize
that he's not helping with any investigations that are?
Nothing. That have happened right you
know right he's not assisting with anything no things are
happening while he. They're like these cases that
you're bringing us information on are.
They're brand new. Yeah, brand new cases.
Brand new. Like it just doesn't how they're
not connecting that is wild. I don't understand.
I don't get it. I don't like you were married to
her and her daughter's missing and then your uncle's missing
and then. Right, like not realizing that
all of these people are connected.
To him, yeah. Like that, are they just
choosing to ignore it because cases are getting closed?
And then his cellmates, you know, girlfriend who you knew
information, she's gone. Like, come on.
I think he was, he wasn't like explicitly like saying anything
about like he wasn't going forward to the like, to the
giving total. Information on all of them,
yeah. I think like, the information
came and then he, like, someone's like, oh, this person
died and it was someone in an inner circle with a cellmate.
And so then he suddenly had information about it while he
was also working on other cases that the FBI had.
Right. So this next woman that was
murdered, her name was Leanne Emery.
She was 24 years old. Her parents described her life
as one full of promises. She was a straight A student in
high school and even graduated early.
But adulthood became difficult for her.
Her mother's severe health problems forced Leanne to leave
college. She lost her job as a veterinary
assistant. Then she entered an abusive
marriage. After the divorce, she began a
relationship with a prisoner named Stephen Hawley.
Good God, I know. In 2003, Leanne told her parents
she was leaving for a caving trip in Mexico with friends.
She was an avid spelunker. She would often go every like
weekend. What did you just say?
Spelunker. Have you ever heard of
spelunking? Never heard like cave diving
spelunking? Oh, it is now I've.
Splunked. I've splunked before.
Splunked. I don't know that's a word
either. So you can either be a splunker
and ghost and ghost splunking. Welcome to Merriam Webster's
Edition 40 We. Are English, but what did you
say? You said splunking.
Spelunking, I think. I don't know if that's a word.
Oh yeah, spelunking is a word, OK.
Yeah, and so cave diving and so would you be a splunker?
Possibly. And then you you are splunking.
Or are you just one who? Splunks but because I've.
Splunk. Where?
In Puerto Rico. You went cave diving, did you
swim into? It I was in a cave and we jumped
in the water. That's so cool, I want to do
that. That's splunking.
Yeah, I, I splunge. She's I am a mother splunker,
OK? OK, so she was in a relationship
with a man named Stephen Hawley in January of 2003.
OK, she went on a little spelunking trip in January 2003.
But then two weeks, 2 weeks. That's my favorite word now, by
the way. Spelunking.
Two weeks later, authorities in Moab found her abandoned
vehicle. Her clothes, purse and
belongings were still inside. Police noticed the car had been
deliberately pulled into a clearing.
Nearby were shoe prints and tire tracks.
As if like she literally went to, got out of the car and then
went to another car. Oh, yes, OK, that makes sense.
That makes sense. Something felt wrong to the
detectives and they feared something bad may have happened
to her. But once again, when her family
tried to file a missing persons report, they were brushed aside
because they were. She was too old.
She was too old and they need to have evidence of foul play.
So, of course, Leanne's parents began investigating themselves.
They looked at her credit card records and they show it show
that she'd never made it to Mexico and said she travelled
across multiple Western states while writing bad checks and
charging thousands to her father's credit.
Card That doesn't sound right. Sounds like Scott, sounds like a
boy named. Scott So her parents, like her
parents knew that's not something that she would do.
And then they started looking through emails and they
discovered some disturbing emails that she had written to
one of her relatives before disappearing.
And one she said, quote, I have to hide my orders came from
Hannibal and he's a dangerous person.
And then another says I'm in an underground world.
And then yet in another there she said, if Hannibal knew I was
talking to you, he'd had me killed.
And in a second, But who was Hannibal?
Letters from Leanne's boyfriend, Stephen Hawley, the guy in
prison, started to arrive to Leanne's parents.
And they start, they said that she that Leanne was in terrible
danger and they needed to call the FBI.
But when pressed about who Hannibal was when her parents
were like, wait, but who's Hannibal?
He refused to reveal the true identity.
But then eventually, investigators learned who it
truly was. Hannibal was Scott Kimball.
At that point, the case became almost surreal because somehow
the suspected kill serial killer was still operating as a federal
informant. God damn.
And once again, investigators finally began comparing all the
disappearances together. The entire case starts
collapsing into one horrifying pattern.
That took a few years. That took it took too long.
Yeah, it started. They started to actually
investigate in 2006, but then the murder started in 2002,
2003, 2-3, something like that. In the early 2000s.
That's right. We keep it vague.
Yeah, we keep it. Real big.
So in June 2006, as we remember, Bob Markham, Jennifer Markham's
dad, and Rob Mcloyd, Casey Mcloyd's dad, were comparing
information and they found those three people that were connected
to Scott Kimball, Jennifer Casey and Terry, which all had that
one common denominator as Scott Kimball.
So that discovery pushed the FBI to assign Special Agent Jonathan
Gressing to the case alongside Detective Gary Thatcher, who had
already spent over a year investigating Kimball.
OK, so Kimball was their confidential informant, OK.
Well, no, he was, he was, he was an FBI's informant.
And then those two guys were assigned to the case.
So as investigators dug deeper, the evidence became
overwhelming. Every victim had last been seen
with Scott Kimball. Investigators learned Kimball
specifically targeted vulnerable people, women struggling
financially, people with unstable lives, people easy to
isolate or manipulate. Investigators start closing in
on Jennifer Markham's case when an inmate came forward about
some disturbing details. An inmate later told authorities
Kimball once asked whether breast implants could be traced.
We remember earlier when Casey's parents, Casey parents.
Casey parents remember when Casey Parents was looking.
When Casey's parents met with Scott Kimball and Kimball said
that someone asked him to take the to take the breast implants
and the IUD out of Casey. So now when Azure, the
investigators are doing their investigation, they and an
inmate came to them and said that.
Didn't he ask about the serial numbers on a on the implants?
Yes, sorry, I'm finding my supplants OK.
And the inmate said that that Kimball once asked whether
implants could be traced or not. And when the inmate was
questioned why implants mattered when victims could still be
identified through fingerprints or dental records, Kimball
replied and quotes. You cut off the feet, head and
hands and there's no trace more of yes.
What do you want to say? What was your like?
I mean, that's it. That's all they need at that
point. Like, come on, it just, I know,
you know, yeah. But nobody.
Nobody. No crime.
But that's not true because there is that one killer that
thought that. But that's not the case.
That's why they got caught. I don't know who you're talking
about. I don't remember.
There's that one killer. That one time I don't remember,
but I know that that's not a thing 'cause I I know.
We know. I'm an attorney.
That, yes, and justice will get to be done.
I am the FBI. So, Scott?
So when Kimball shared the cell with Jennifer Markham's
boyfriend Steve Ennis, he saw photos of her on the wall and he
promised Steve that he would help her out and get her job.
But in reality that's he just wanted her for himself.
And after all said and done and she and he was released from
prison two months later she disappeared.
That whole case around the murder for hire plot involving
Jennifer was a way for him to get close to Jennifer, which
allowed him to kill. Her right?
So the FBI later interviews Steve Ennis about Jennifer's
disappearance, where he wraps up the conversation by mentioning
that there was another inmate, Stephen Hawley, concerned about
the disappearance of his girlfriend, Leanne Emery, and
that Scott may have something to do with it.
In a search of Kimball's computer, they then found photos
of Liane. But more than that,
investigators also discovered violent pornography of Kimball's
computer involving women and simulated assaults.
Whoa. Simulated.
And this is when they connected him directly to Leanne Emery
through travel records and photographs on his computer.
Oh, we got him. At that point, authorities moved
quickly. Kimball was sentenced to a 48 to
48 years on unrelated nonviolent charges while investigators
continued building a homicide case against him.
Love when they do that, they're just like, we're going to put
you in here. Yes.
Until we can figure out what else to put you in here for.
Pin him for something, yes, so we have time to pin you for.
For something else. Because you can't.
You can't charge them for the same thing twice, right?
So that's jeopardy. OK, but still, obviously there's
one massive problems. There's no bodies.
And without bodies, murder charges would be super difficult
to make. Then in April of 2008, Kimball
Slit, he mentioned a girl who had died of drug overdose on
National Forest land. The FBI trace receipts placing
him near Walden Co. The same weekend Casey
disappeared. Forest officials then revealed
that a hunter, so literally the FBI calls the National Forest
land. And then this was like months,
like later, and the FBI or the forest officials said that Oh
yeah, actually a hunter found a skull and we just didn't fucking
report. It.
What? Yeah, and the previous winter.
OK. So DNA testing then confirmed it
was Casey Mcloyd. And now investigators knew for
certain Scott Kimball was a killer.
But proving all four murders would require an unbelievable
deal. And with the man himself.
OK, so now it's 2009. Investigators believe that they
had their man, but they still lacked enough evidence to
prosecute him for all four murders.
So they made a controversial decision.
They offered Scott Kimball a deal.
Yeah, they said if he led investigators to the missing
bodies, they would not pursue first degree murder charges.
Kimball accepted. So at this point, OK, it is hard
to prove it's a murder without the bodies and stuff.
Yeah. But also, I guess there wasn't
enough evidence. No, there really wasn't.
I was like, do they really need the bodies right now?
I mean. But I guess they do.
Obviously I being this is when being an investigator would be
so difficult because you know that he is the killer like you
know it without a shadow of a doubt.
Yeah, but you have to have certain things to be able to.
Legally charge them right. That's.
So it can't just be instinct or vibes, Yeah.
If it went off vibes we'd all be dead.
Plus there is no death penalty in Colorado, right?
No. Actually, I have no idea.
I don't know, maybe not. Well, if they're not going for
first degree, they, they must not, I mean, because they could
say we're not going to go for the death penalty and he'll be
like, oh, now if they do have the death penalty and that's all
they offered him, I swear to God.
I'm gonna kill him myself. Yeah, Scott, I'll write you a
letter. Are you looking it up?
Yeah. Penalty.
Death penalty. We love that.
Uh oh. Yes, Colorado had the death
penalty. In 2009.
The Colorado House passed a bill to abolish it in that year.
The legislation failed in the state Senate by certain votes,
keeping the capital punishment legal.
So they tried to repeal it. OK, so that sucks that they
offered him that deal. OK, keep going.
OK? So Kimball eventually LED
authorities to the remains of Leanne Emery in Book Cliffs
Mountains of Utah. She was the one that went to go
spelunking. But during that like whole time
he was, he was like, oh, I'm pretty sure she's over here.
Actually, no, she's over here. What a fuck.
They just loved. He loved to like.
Give him wild goose chase. And then near her body,
investigators found found a spent bullet matching Kimball's
gun. So they for sure believe that
that was Leanne and they and that she had become involved in
laundering money for Kimball, and once she was no longer
useful, he killed her. So OK, he shouldn't have a gun,
am I right? Right.
He's a felon. Right.
I wonder how they put that together.
You know, make sure you. Don't.
I don't know if it's like if he legally possessed it though.
Well, felons can't have guns. No, but also how did he have a
gun while he was under the FBI? Yeah, that's another that's.
What I wanted? That's what that's what I'm
saying. Maybe.
Slipping. They are so dumb.
Later, the FBI said too, that they like when they were looking
back at the case there. There's like, sorry guys, but
like we when we have informants, we don't even have a lot of
resources. So we just kind of have to do
what we can do with whatever resource that we have.
They have minimal supervision. It's just what it is.
It's. Just what it?
Is yeah. OK.
So unfortunately, Jennifer Markham's body was never found.
Investigators later said that there was a basically a 0
probability that Kimball had forgotten where she was buried.
Buried. He said he forgot.
Many believe that he was just withholding her location simply
as another manipulation tactic. In total, Kimball pleaded guilty
to killing four people between 2003 and 2004, but investigators
suspected there could be many more victims.
Some estimates reached as high as 21 additional unsolved
murders. Boulder County District Attorney
Stan Garnett said Kimball often bragged about committing dozens
of murders. Still, even after pleading
guilty, Kimball continued to manipulate the narrative he
opened. He openly admitted killing Terry
Kimball, but when discussing the women, he spoke in riddles, he
said in quotes. I was a mechanism.
I was part of the mechanics. Investigators believe that the
murders of the women I know he likes, he's like, Oh yes, I did
it. And then like later he's like,
oh, I was just a mechanism. Investigators believe the
murders of the women carried A deeply personal and sexual
component that Kimball preferred not to discuss openly, unlike
Terry's murder, which appeared motivated primarily by money.
But on On October 8th, 2009, Scott Kimball was sentenced to a
70 to 70 years in prison. 70. I mean, that's a long time.
At least he'll die there. But.
Yeah, I mean, I that's essentially life, but at this I
like hearing like 05 life sentences, you know, it feels.
Nice feels, right, I think. And I think if you take a life,
it's not funny, but you should go to prison for how many years
you took away from that person, right?
For example, a child. If you kill a child then you
should go away for at least 85 years.
So it's based off of the. Times the lifespan.
Lifespan. So you can go kill a 99 year old
and probably go like 30 days maybe.
That wouldn't be good. No, I'm not saying it'd be good,
but I'm just saying like then theory like it'd be interesting
it'd. Be interesting to see if that
was the law. It'd be kind of fun to test and
then people would just be killing 90 year old women or
men. Or yeah, it's always women.
Yeah, I don't know. Because it is because there's
like, oh, you know, come take care of me and now I'm dead, you
know, type of thing, which sucks.
I hate, I hate hearing about people who kill the elderly.
When? Yeah.
There's like they're just hanging.
Yeah, they're just, that's like Nancy.
Yeah, where the fuck where? Where's Sarah?
Wasn't there a update in that case?
Yeah, she's still. Patreon.
She's still it's the update. She's can't find her Nancy.
Marco. She's like Paulo.
OK, sorry, 70 years. So the families of the victims
were very furious with the FBI and how they handled the whole
case. They believed that federal
negligence gave Scott Kimball the freedom to kill and it's
they should go to prison. They should go to prison, yes.
Yeah, because, you know, obviously he was informant.
I hope you were hoping this is going to be a fluid.
Process. I knew it wasn't going to be I.
Just saw your ass. I'm using gaming headphones to
hear the mic and I just wrapped I coiled the microphone that's
on the headset. And I didn't see it till pretzel
just now. It's just like a knot.
Hi. Digress.
Digress, OK. I saw it.
Oh my God, look what I did. It's the.
Sailors not. It's the sailors not OK.
OK, so at the exact same time multiple victims disappeared,
Kimball was obviously acting up as an A federal informant and
victims families reported raised concerns about him throughout
his entire. They're like, hello, what the
fuck FBI is like, no, we he's good.
I know they defended him the whole time, so officials later
responded saying, like I said, they lacked the resources or
whatever. But that explanation wasn't
enough for for the families, Yeah.
What they do, Nothing. There wasn't really much to do.
I would sue. I would sue.
I would. Something.
Yeah, something. So now Scott Lee Kimball remains
incarcerated today. In 2021, he was quietly
transferred to a federal prison in Florida out of Colorado.
I was just there. Why was he transferred me here?
I should have checked in on him. Why?
Didn't you go see Scott? Yeah, I don't know.
I didn't know. Why don't you tell me?
I forgot. OK, Well, also, yeah, I don't
know. OK, given his age and his
sentence, he's most likely going to die in prison.
And they, the investigators knew that when they were doing their
little whatever. But I feel like also people and
like some people after living like a life of crime and they
know they can't like get away with it or whatever.
And you? Got to just give up at that.
Point Well, yeah, they got to give up at that point, but then
also sometimes a life is just better.
Yeah, in prison. True.
True for them. Yeah, well, they have community
food. Food and blankets.
So Scott Lee Kimball is 59 years old as of May 10th.
Happy birthday 2026. Wait, is that today?
I don't know if that's his birthday, but that's just how
old he is as a best one. This was posted.
Oh, that's today. That's today.
Oh wow, that's today. Happy birthday.
No, but and he's incarcerated until at least 2054 when he
would be 88, so he could definitely he.
Could get out still get out? Could he get on on good
behavior? He probably doesn't.
Oh, his birthday. Oh wait, we found out his
birthday was September 21st. Whatever.
He's labor. I don't know, let's find out.
Is that Libra? I could be wrong signs.
I feel like that's a Libra. OK, wait, no, that's a Virgo.
I don't know actually. No, we're Virgos.
Yes. Virgo's not.
He couldn't be like us. No, he's not a Virgo.
It's extremely unlikely he'll be released on good behavior OK
just because of the habitual nature of his.
Crime. He's still young though. 59.
Yeah, he could respond to letters, I bet.
That's right, I'm. Going to write him.
He probably will answer too, because he's he rubs the clout.
Yeah. Yeah.
Anyways, So again, there, we really don't know how many
victims there are. Yeah.
And that's kind of it. So this, this case was super
huge, yeah. Because a lot.
Everything that happened under the FBI's nose and their non
willingness to listen to families and I mean like.
Willingness. Non willing.
They are non willing. It's a grammar I don't English
college Notre Dame. That's really fucked up.
It's really messed up. I've never heard of a case like
that, especially where so many inmates are involved.
Yeah, so much snitching, but also, like, they're just
wondering where their girls are at.
Yeah, they're like, yo, where my girl at?
Where my girl? At we're supposed to have
visitation. Yeah.
Why is she not here? Yeah, that's really fucked up.
I'm supposed to get a letter tomorrow.
I wonder if there were any reforms made in regards to
informants and things like that when it comes to the FBI after
that case. You should become one.
Find out. Next week, Dana coming from
federal prison. Really get the inside scoop.
Just zoom in. We'll do prison.
Calls day one of trying to become an informant.
So there were some reforms made. One of them that I thought was
interesting was the stricter suitability assessments, which
mandated rigorous background checks to the informant to
determine whether they evaluate the informants fitness, focusing
on their motivations, criminal history and potential for
manipulation. So a lot of stuff went into
realizing manipulation is a tactic they use, which I don't
know why that wasn't obvious. I mean, this is scary, right?
Because it was early 2000s. We're not talking about the
60's, the 70s. We're talking about yesterday.
Right. And when there were so many
other serial killers that attempted to do similar things
to stay out of prison. I mean, yeah, I just, it is mind
boggling. There was another that's the
mandatory supervisory review which they use high risk
informants or authorized otherwise illegal activity when
I don't know what this means. So they have to sign off from
high-ranking officials before anything can happen.
So there needs to be all of that review on the back end prior to
anything. So it's it's a lot of people are
now accountable. Yeah, it's not just.
Yes, and there's someone who was signing off, therefore they are
liable, right? For it.
I wonder too how much they were getting paid.
I don't know. So it turns out Scott received a
total of $50,000 from the FBI during his time as an informant,
and that payments were made in cash during meetings with his
handling agents. And he also had a cell phone and
earpiece. So much freedom, all of that
stuff. Jesus, I mean just give him a
fucking Amex. I know, and he was completely
shielded from local law enforcement.
Immunity from. From it all.
Like if he were to get in trouble.
If he was doing shady shit, wow. Yeah.
That's bananas. Unbelievable.
Yeah. I mean that's what the average
as of today, the average annual earnings which it's like a.
Full time job? Yeah, that's a year's salary.
They make $41,000 a year as of May 2026.
Again, that's average, right? So if you're doing like part
time. And he's just, he's killing
people and getting paid this by the government.
Right. Like I mean, and I can't get a
break on my fucking taxes and. He's like, hey, I found a dead
body. Making it rain on him while he's
out here raping and. And.
Getting plunkers. Unbelievable.
That is wild. That was a good case.
This mean that. Was really good, really, really
interesting. I loved the FBI piece.
I thought that was really cool. Never heard that before.
Anything with an FBI involved 10 out of 10. 10 out of 10.
Recommend. Hell yeah.
Well, thank you for coming on the pod.
Thank you. So exciting.
And guys, we have our Patreon, like we said, is getting set up
this week and we're also going to the serial killer talk with
the doctor that's coming. Doctor Rachel tolls, I remember
it says. I had to look it up that one
time. That will be again on our
Patreon next week. We have a really good episode
for you, so make sure you follow like.
She's been working on her whole life.
I It's so hard and I hope that it works out.
I hope that it's like fluid. I'm sure that it will be.
That's my fear. We always.
Yeah. Say that it's not going to piece
together. And then it does.
And it still doesn't. But it's OK, I'm just kidding.
It's totally fine. It doesn't matter.
But yeah, the Patreon $4.00. Yep.
And that's. Instagram, TikTok, I don't look
at X still. We're on YouTube, yes, not
videos yet. No, but our.
Our podcast, you can listen to it on YouTube.
Yeah, and Eastman's on Instagram and Tik.
T.O.K Yep, you want to drop your handles.
If you can follow me on Instagram at Yesman dot Mustafa.
No, just you suck. Yesman Mustafa.
Do I need to spell it? No, you'll they'll find.
You OK? Yeah.
And then we'll tag you. OK, we'll tag you and then
TikTok Yasmeen Mustafa 2A's at the end.
All right, stay safe. And remember, we didn't do it.