I'm Aaron. And I'm Dana.
And this is. Crimes we didn't commit.
Here we go. I'm excited for this one.
Oh, are we recording? Yeah.
Oh, wow. I never know because the laptop
is at you. Well, somebody has to be an
engineer. And it's you.
And it is me and I've. I've learned so much.
You have like from the beginning and the first several episodes
you recorded. First of all, one of us couldn't
be heard. Yep.
And then we would you would try and fix it for hours.
There'd be an echo. It would fuck up.
Yeah, it was really difficult. But yeah, I've really learned.
Shout out to ChatGPT for helping me with.
All of this. Thank you interwebs.
Thank you so much. AI.
Yeah. What would we do without AI
right now? I don't know, but it's also
concerning how much I use it. Yes, because I know that it's a
lot of water consumption and at the same time I think I'm
getting Dumber. Yeah, I think people are relying
on it too much. Like, for example, the kids are
that are in school right now. Oh, there you gotta know they're
making. Oh yeah, they're making their
essays from there. They're like.
And you can definitely edit it to make it sound more like you
absolutely like that. Well, these are going to be.
Future doctors, I know, and they're taking out the dashes
and they're just making sure everything is, yeah.
Edited right and it looks good. Yeah, maybe throw in an
incorrect comma splice. I mean, remember when we were in
school and I would, I would type my essay up in Microsoft Word
and then you would do like the spell checking.
It would go through everything. Yeah.
And that's what we did. Grammar was right, yeah.
All the research or any of the writing came straight from us
like we did so much work. I remember using encyclopedias.
Yeah, I would have to go into books.
Like at the. Library.
Yeah, it's crazy. I don't know how I did any
college. Yeah, I well, I.
I mean, it's all the same thing, yeah.
Like all of the studies are the same.
It's so it's just they rely happily.
Time. And it's a lot of money.
I am now in college again and I have taken out loans and I have
a negative net worth. Love that.
Yeah. You don't have life insurance.
No. Oh, you don't have any
insurance? Not even health.
No. Your job doesn't offer health
insurance. No.
Why do you work there? Because it's nice, because I'm
in school and it's like, not hard.
Yeah, to do able to record a podcast during the week so.
Yeah, on a Monday. Yeah, twice a week, 2:00 Yeah.
So I think that it's worth it. I just won't get sick or break
anything. No, just be healthy and knock on
wood right now. Yeah, absolutely.
Knock on, I'm knocking on my leg.
But sometimes. Sometimes.
People have wood legs. Oh, I watched this new show or
we watched this new show. It's called The Beast in Me.
I think it was on Netflix. And it's about this guy who is
suspected to be a murderer, that he murdered his wife.
And this writer ends up being able to, like, interview him, I
guess. Anyway, it's this whole entire,
like, we go through the entire thing to find out whether or not
he was the murderer or not, and a bunch of stuff goes down.
But it was so good. I might have watched.
That it was so good. If it's on Netflix, more than
likely. It's on Netflix.
I want to say it is, but I very much enjoyed it.
It's day like a million and two that Nancy Guthrie has been
missing. Where the fuck is Nancy at?
She is lost. I think she just decided, you
know what? I'm done.
Yeah, I'm going to spend off the grid the rest of my years
somewhere else. Where I want to be.
Yep. By myself.
Yeah, maybe kind of like Enya. Like she's on, you know, she's
just in a castle with all her cats.
Well, you know when cats are like, towards, like the end of
their life? Yeah.
And they just like, run away. Do they?
Is it like they hide? They hide because they're.
Just like I'm gonna die. I'm gonna go over here in the
corner. Oh yeah, I guess that makes
sense and I feel like that's how it works with my depression.
Same. I just find a hole.
To sit, I just stay in bed, really.
I mean, it's a hole. I stay in bed.
When I'm happy, I'm sad. The bed is your safe.
Place it really is, it is. Really, it's very comforting.
Well, the case that we're gonna do.
Does it have anything to do with the comforters?
These people that are in bed, it's not their safe space.
That is really unfortunate. It's sucks because I'm sure they
thought it was. And it's, I mean, it's not
funny, but it's interesting how that just kind of was just a
natural. Segue yeah, we're remarkable.
I know How did we do this I. Have no idea, but this case is
about This case is about Daniel Harold Rowling.
OK. He was known as the Gainesville
Ripper. Oh yeah, he had a nickname.
And I'm sure he loves. Most serial killers love their
nicknames. Yeah, unless it's a lame one.
Yeah. What are some lame ones?
I don't remember them, but I'm sure there are some.
There has to. Be they all deserve lame ones.
If you know any lame serial killer names, please write in at
crimes We didn't comein@gmail.com or DMS. So
Daniel was born on May 26th, 1954.
He was one of two sons born to James Harold Rowling and Claudia
Beatrice. They're originally from Georgia.
Georgia. Georgia.
His dad was a former Korean War vet and also was a police
officer. He often abused his wife and
sons for frivolous reasons. I was just like, oh, he was that
and a fleece officer. He was actually in the
community. He was super abusive.
Hate him? One time his mom tried to commit
suicide just to like, get away from him.
Whoa. Yeah, that's wild.
It's, yeah, it gets crazy. Things like breathing in a way
that displeased him would like make him rage out and get
abusive. Yeah.
I get it. Like close your mouth and
breathe, yeah. Come on or chew over there.
Oh, the chewing. I chew really loudly.
Oh, we can't. I can't eat with you.
He would also make it aware that Daniel was unwanted from birth.
Oh so immediately. Trauma.
Yeah, right off the bat. And why?
Would you have him? It what?
You're not supposed to be here. Where'd you come from?
Get out of here. James, once pinned rolling to
the ground, handcuffed him and had police take his son away
because he was embarrassed by him.
Which What? Do you abuse your power?
The dad? Yeah.
Like handcuffed who? His son.
And had the police take him away, Yeah.
He called his police buddy's. Breathing wrong?
Come get this kid. In another story, Rowling had a
dog, but James beat the dog so often that it died in his son's
arm. No, yeah, no.
I hope he kills his dad. I mean, well, OK.
As a teenager and young adult, Rowling was arrested several
times for robberies in Georgia and Alabama and was caught
spying on a woman getting undressed.
OK, that's not good. No, it's not good.
None of those things are good. But James did shoot his dad in
the face. Did he live?
Yeah. Fuck, I know.
But he has a major injury. Huge.
So probably looks ugly now, yeah.
As an adult, he had trouble trying to assimilate into
society and holding down a steady job.
At one point, Rowling worked as a waiter at a restaurant in
Louisiana, but eventually he ended up in Florida, living in a
small camp in a wooded area near apartment complexes.
OK, so he just kept. Moving.
He just went homeless basically. Yeah, he was just a nomad he
had. Had his own he.
Didn't know where. To be he just want to be off
grid. Yeah.
But like in a city? I guess where it's warm.
Now on August 24th of 1990, in the early morning hours, Rolling
broke into an apartment of two university freshmen, 18 year old
Sonia Larson and 17 year old Christina Powell.
He brought with him a semi. Automatic.
Yeah. Whoa.
I can't believe I couldn't say it.
It's OK, I got you. So a semi automatic pistol and
AK bar knife? Oh wow, he was prepared to kill.
He was. He went in to do that.
Yeah. Oh, OK.
Christina was asleep on the couch downstairs.
Rolling stood over her but didn't wake her up.
Creepy. He chose to move upstairs to a
bedroom where Sonya was sleeping.
Rolling taped Sonya's mouth shut to cover her screams.
She was stabbed on her arms and received a slashing blow to her
left thigh. Those are not killing ones.
No, those are what are those called when it's not a killing
one. Hurt.
Hurt once. Once it's not.
Like non fatal, it's there's a there's a well, there's.
Some of them are defensive wounds, like on her arms.
We'll figure out the saying. Miss Larson maintained
consciousness for less than a minute and died as a direct
result of the stab wounds inflicted by rolling.
Oh wow. He then went back downstairs.
He taped Christina's mouth shut, bound her wrist together behind
her back and threatened her with the knife as he cut her clothes
off. He raped her and forced her face
down onto the floor. He stabbed her five times in the
back. Wow, but he didn't rape the no
the first victim. But after he killed Christina,
he went back upstairs, raped Sonia's corpse, he posed the
bodies in sexual, provocative positions and took a shower
before leaving the apartment. Nice.
OK. Like what?
OK, so interesting. He did that.
That is just this is the first one that was, you know, on his
list of committings. That's a very big like, that's
not, you know how some people. He just went all in.
Yeah, he went all the way in, Yeah.
Less than 48 hours later, rolling during the evening hours
of Saturday, August 25th, he broke into the apartment of
college student Krista Hoyt. She was 18, a chemistry honors
student. This was located about two miles
away from the first crime scene by prying open the sliding glass
door with a screwdriver. Armed with the same automatic
pistol and K bar knife, Rolling waited in the living room
waiting for Krista to get back home.
So he staked this out. Yeah, well, he was peeking in
her window a few days beforehand.
When Krista eventually returned home at about 11:00 AM, Rolling
surprised her from behind, placing her in a chokehold and
subduing her. After a brief struggle, he taped
her mouth shut and her hands and then LED her into the bedroom,
where, after cutting and tearing off her clothes and
undergarments, he forced her onto the bed, threatened her
with his K bar knife, and raped her.
Rolling subsequently turned Krista face down in her bed and
stabbed her through the back, rupturing her aorta and killing
her. So it's interesting that he
keeps stabbing in the back. Yeah, it's like he doesn't wanna
see their faces. I find that to be kind of odd.
Yeah, same. After arriving back at his
campsite, Rowling could not find his wallet, thinking he may have
lost it at the murder scene. He returned there, at which he
decapitated Krista. OK, so.
I don't know why that was. Why he?
Needed to do he's like, you know what wallet?
Beer wallet. Yeah, let me just got to check
this off my To Do List. And then he posed her body in a
sitting position at the edge of her bed and placed her head on a
shelf facing the corpse. Oh, weird.
Weird. That is really weird.
He later claimed his intent was to add the shock of whoever
discovered her. OK.
Like sick. Oh, that is really sick.
But I mean, that's not the first time a serial killer has done
that. It's just all shock value.
Yeah, they wanna get a reaction out of people.
Not that you know, a murderer wouldn't get a reaction out of
someone by itself. I mean just her body alone.
Yeah, is more than enough. Plenty enough trauma, right?
A litter. A litter.
Of kittens. A little over a day later at
approximately 3:00 AM on August 27th.
So these are happening. Really like in quick succession.
Yeah, consecutively, Rowling entered 1/3 apartment occupied
by roommates and college students Tracy Paul's, 23, and
Manuel. I couldn't say this last name
but Tabauda. OK, that sounds right.
Also 23 OK again Rolling broke into the apartment by prying
open the double glass sliding door with the same screwdriver
he used to enter Krista's apartment.
They need to recall those doors. How do you open a door with a
screwdriver? I don't know.
I don't know how to open a door without it with the key without
like I need the right key sometimes with the key.
If I'm locked out of my house, there's no way in hell I can use
a screwdriver. Absolutely not, unless I'm not
even with the sliding door. No.
What the fuck? So he went in.
He attacked Manuel first, stabbing him in the solar plexus
and penetrating his thoracic vertebrae.
So the solar plexus when looking at the Welcome to Doctor corner
with Dana and Aaron where we are not medical providers.
So I don't know what the solar plexus is, but I do know that
the vertebra is his spine, so my guess is it's like the back of
his head. That's my Yeah, that sounds
right. Yeah.
Solar is like the sun. Sun is up, so must be top
plexus. Sounds like it could be like
shoulder for some reason. Yeah, I don't know.
I feel like your shoulder's plexus.
Oh God. Anyway.
Emmanuel was awakened by the blow, so he was sleeping and
struggled to fight off his assailant.
Assailant. Assailant.
Yeah. Rolling repeatedly stabbed him
on the arms, hands, chest, legs and face and eventually killed
him. I would think so.
Yeah. Hearing the commotion caused by
the struggle, Tracy Pauls approached Manuel's bedroom and,
catching a glimpse of Rolling, fled to her room, where she
attempted to lock the door. Rolling, who was covered in
Manuel's blood, followed Paul's and broke through her bedroom
door. He was just like.
Yeah, must be very strong. Also, why didn't she run out of
the apartment? I'm wondering if he blocked it
somehow? Possibly.
Or like that was on the way to the door.
Yeah, so she just backtracked. I mean, it's fight or flight,
right? Yeah, there's no.
Which I would have frozen, Yeah, I would have stood there and be
like, hello. Yeah, I'm next.
Like I don't know what to do. Yeah.
No, I don't know. Rolling subdued her, taped her
mouth and her hands, and cut or tore off her T-shirt.
He raped her and threatened her with his knife before turning
her over on the bed again in like killing her in the back,
stabbing her in the black. Finally, Rolling cleaned and
posed the body of Tracy Paul's and left the apartment.
I'm wondering like if the back thing, I know that if they're
facing away from you #1 they are very vulnerable in that position
because they can't see you. But she's already tied up and.
I don't think it's so much she can't see him, but he can't see
her. Right.
And also it could be like a self esteem type thing or whatever it
is connected to his like you're saying.
So he had some sorts, some sorts of something.
He had some sorts of feelings. He's sorting them out.
By this time, the murders had attracted widespread media
attention. Like, who the fuck is killing
all these college students? Many students had begun taking
precautions such as changing their daily routines and
sleeping together in groups. Oh, wow, that's smart.
That's really smart. I don't think about my daily
routines because I'm pretty consistent.
Yeah, in my routines, just in general.
But if people are being murdered around you, it's.
You're going to start switching. And be like, hey, do you want to
come over? And not be, of course.
Yeah. Because the spree was happening
so early in the fall semester, some students withdrew their
enrollment and transferred to other schools.
Oh wow, yeah, that means, I mean, that's happening getting.
The fuck out of here. That I feel like that means the
police are going to start taking action soon because it's
impacting their Yep monies. Although law enforcement
initially had very few leads, police identified 2 suspects.
Cool. One suspect was Edward Lewis
Humphrey. He was a 20.
No, he was 20 years old. Sorry.
OK, he was in the 20s. He was 20 years old, University
of Florida student with a history of mental illness who
had been convicted of felony assault against his grandmother.
He was held in custody for five months until a grand jury
refused to indict him on the murder charges, citing
insufficient evidence. OK, that's fair.
There wasn't any evidence. Yeah, he was just a suspicious
person. You just had a criminal history.
Yeah, that's it. Authorities publicly cleared him
of all charges and the other suspect they had was also later
cleared. OK, so they.
So they're back to. Both subjects were not him.
Yeah, OK. August 1990 A Shreveport, LA
resident, Cindy, heard a news report about a string of murders
as she travelled through the Florida Panhandle.
OK, and the report made her think about Rowling, whom she
met at her Louisiana hometown church, and his possible link to
murders of a family called the Grisms in Shreveport.
She thought of him because one night Rowling told her, told her
and her husband that he likes to stick knives into people.
OK, yeah, so did they. Were they just like, OK, would
you like more tea? Well, the husband told the wife,
Cindy, yeah, he's got to go. OK.
Yeah. So they immediately were like,
yeah, no, we are. Not our friend.
Anymore. No, we can't.
You're. Yeah, yeah.
Sorry, we're. Busy bye.
Louisiana police alerted Florida authorities to an unsolved
triple murder in Shreveport on November 4th, 1989.
OK. Detectives noted similarities
between the Gainesville murders and those of 55 year old William
Grissom, his 24 year old daughter Julie, and his
eight-year old grandson Sean. Oh wow, so sad.
The family was attacked in their home while preparing for dinner
afterwards. Julie Grissom's body had been
mutilated, cleaned and posed. Oh, so this like he's doing with
the others? Super common, like the same MO,
the same staging, all of that. The investigator, Don Mainz with
the Florida Department of Law Enforcement.
He traveled to Shreveport, LA in November of 1990 because of the
similarities between the two sets of murders.
These included posing of the victims, tape residue on the
victims bodies and vinegar used to cleanse the bodies.
That's. What?
I thought vinegar. I didn't know.
I don't know what I know vinegar can be used for cleaning.
But as far as like, does that get rid of DNA like?
I mean, maybe, yeah, I don't know, It's acidic.
I feel like it could potentially break it down.
Maybe he couldn't get bleach. It was too expensive.
It could have been too expensive.
Vinegar's pretty cheap. Vinegar's cheap and it's in most
households. That's true.
Maine said that they tested the body fluids from the perpetrator
in Shreveport and found that this person had a type B blood
type. OK.
I think it's pretty awesome that he went to go investigate
something that looks similar. Yeah, because.
It's genius. It is.
It makes a lot of sense to do that.
And shout out to Cindy, Yes, because that lead.
Calling that in, yeah, because otherwise there would have not
been that connection. Exactly they would have.
No idea. Here's something.
Remember something, say something.
He called the match to the evidence in Gainesville, a
revelation in the case. Investigators responded to the
tip and quickly found Rowling, who had been arrested on
September 7th, 1990 in Florida for robbing a supermarket.
It's so funny that they get arrested for stuff like robbery
but not the murders. No.
Well, because there's. CCTV footage, there's all those
things. And there's so much more
careful, I feel like, because of how heinous the crimes are, that
they feel like if they can get away with that, then they can
get away with small crimes like robbery.
Right. The robbery was committed 10
days after the bodies of Paul and Manuel were found, so again,
OK. Very quick.
Close after Yeah, Rowling was being held in the Marion County
Jail, 40 miles South of Gainesville.
While being held, investigators realized that Rowling had
multiple convictions for armed robbery.
They also realized he could have also been responsible for the
bank robbery that occurred on the day Krista Hoyt's body was
found. So he's just out here committing
crimes. Left doing things.
Also it would be really cool to be able to do like a bank heist.
I agree. I wouldn't do it, no, it would
be so. Cool.
I love like movies that have bank high.
So I think it's wow, they really thought of that.
Right. And it just, it just looks so
cool. They make crime look cool.
They they, but don't. Don't commit crimes.
We. Didn't.
So they returned to the evidence locker.
So after they, you know, the, the murders had occurred, they
returned to the evidence locker where the gun, screwdriver, bag
of money and cassette player were stored.
And they listened to the tapes. We'll get in.
We'll get into that later. They found tools matching marks
left on the Gainesville murder scenes, the small camp where he
had been living. In the wooded area near the
apartments, investigators discovered audio Diaries he had
made alluding to the crimes. So even more.
OK, they have a They're getting a stack of evidence.
Oh. Yeah, investigators determined
that Rowling had Type B blood, like the suspect in both the
Gainesville and Shreveport martyrs.
Moiters. Maita.
On November 15th, 1991, the grand jury of Alachu County
indicted appellant Danny Rowling for this serial murders.
He was charged with five counts of first degree murder 333.
Crowns. 3 counts of sexual battery and three counts of
armed burglary of a dwelling with a battery.
He claimed his motive was to become a superstar similar to
Ted Bundy. And you?
Yeah, like, come on. That's that is being a superstar
for something else. Why do you want to
sensationalize murder? Also, the outcome at the end of
incarceration is not worth. It no, it is.
Not. But he thought of his murders as
like an art form, the way that he posed the body, you know,
obviously. Painting.
I mean go paint. Go paint something.
You could also, you could take pictures of people posing, fruit
basket, you know so many things. Anything.
It doesn't matter. Just not murdering.
In 1994, before his trial could get underway, Rowling
unexpectedly pleaded guilty to all charges.
Oh, so instead of going to trial saying not guilty, doing the
whole deal, he's like, you know what?
I did it. I did it.
Nice. OK.
So, I mean, that's good, yeah. June 9th of 1992.
Was born then, not June 9th, but.
On June 9th, 1992, Rowling entered a plea of not guilty on
all counts. The day that was set for trial,
on February 15th, 1994, he changed his plea to guilty on
all counts. Interesting.
So we had some time to think also.
Why is the trial that that? It takes so long, two years.
Yeah, gosh, it blows my mind how the judicial system.
Works. It's insane it.
Doesn't make sense to me. The trial court accepted
Rowling's plea after reviewing with him the factual basis for
it and adjudicated for him guilty on all counts.
OK. So he's like, yeah, you did it.
The penalty phase proceeding was held and the jury recommended
that Rowling be sentenced to death for each murder by a vote
of 12 to 0. Oh nice, I know he has to get
killed a lot of times. Yeah, 12 times.
Yeah, I'm. Just kidding.
Rowling tried to appeal with many denials and on April 20th
of 1994, Rowling was sentenced to death shortly before he was
executed in Florida for the series of killings in
Gainesville. Rowling claimed responsibility
for the Shreveport murders, handing his spiritual advisor a
handwritten confession and apology.
Rowling had a last meal of lobster tail.
He sang a gospel hymn but made no statement immediately before
his execution which was witnessed by many of his victims
relatives. He was executed by lethal
injection at Florida State Prison on October 25th of 2006
after the US Supreme Court rejected a last ditch appeal.
He was pronounced dead at 6:13 PM.
Well, so he was just, he was, he just was killed.
Huh. Bye bye.
That would be such an interesting thing to witness.
I. I don't want to.
I think it would be one of those things where, yeah, it sounds
something like I would want to do, but then during and after I
would ask myself why I did that. Yeah, like have putting
someone's life in like it's not. I mean, you're not putting it in
your hands. Obviously the judge decides and
the jury and whatever, but for some reason this time we were
talking about it, it felt, made me feel not good.
Yeah. It's weird.
Yeah. I do think that like, if you are
a victim, like if you're family, I'm sure that is a very
satisfying justice. But it is very interesting to
like, think about, think about. Yeah.
Well, we've seen it on TV shows. Oh yeah, plenty of times.
And and it's also a wild thing to look at.
Yeah, even though it's fake on. Right.
I immediately have the feeling of being there.
Yeah, like it's a very heavy. It's a very heavy thing to watch
and like I said, even it being fake.
Yeah. Is.
It's just the idea. We just, like, kill people.
Right for justice, right which which is a very, I understand
it. I do.
I do get it totally. I understand both sides
honestly. But it's just watching somebody
be completely vulnerable. Like that?
But I think that we're
separating at that point. We're separating the crimes
committed. Yeah, from it.
We're seeing them. Just just a human.
Yeah. You know.
Yeah. And not the monster that they
were or are. Yeah.
So, well, then you think about or I think about them as a
child. Yeah, what the?
Innocence is and man, how did they get to where they're at?
Because. Fucking dad's fault.
No one is born. That way, that way.
At least I don't think so, but maybe maybe.
I mean, some people have a chemical imbalance of sorts of
murder. Yeah, probably.
I don't know if there's an impulse in there, maybe for some
people. I think every baby is OK.
So you're probably wondering, what did the recording say?
I was wondering thank you for asking or saying you're so
welcome. One of the tapes consisted of a
58 minute recording. That's a lot of minutes.
It's like an hour.
Yeah, that's a long time. So he wrote original songs and
he sang them. There was 11 OK country style
songs. So that's how he wanted to be a
*. While playing a guitar.
He just didn't know how to get his foot in the door.
Here's some of the names. Of the songs.
Mystery Writer. It contained chilling lyrics
about a killer, a drifter gone insane and a rebel no one can
tame. Another song, Broken Hearts,
included the line. Little girls are not all sugar
and spice. Oh.
So he was a poet. Yeah, clearly just a Robert
Frost. He was a poet.
He also had messages to his family, right?
Yeah. OK, I don't know.
I'm not up to my poet game. I don't know.
I'm not strong in that area. He recorded emotional messages
to his mother, brother and father, whom he shot in the
face. He expressed love and apologized
for letting them down while also confronting his father about his
abusive upbringing. He had a bunch of unresolved
trauma. Yeah, he was like, I'm so sorry,
Mom, brother and father. Please don't think of me
differently. Dad, you fucking suck me.
You hit me and hurt me and said I wasn't wanted.
Dang, if he had just gone to therapy, you know, and got on
some like Wellbutrin or something, some like Zoloft or
Lexa, Lexapro, I don't know. I think therapy would have been
like. It would have.
Been a big deal. Yeah, I don't think he even had
that idea. He also spoke about his
religious beliefs and his disdain for the corrupt legal
system, which he called a system of the devil.
He stated he would rather be judged by God than by men.
OK, does he think that his actions are good in the eyes of
God? Like, I'm not, I'm not picking
up what he's putting down. I think he's more of like a ask
for forgiveness from God things than he is.
I'm gonna live by the will of God.
Right. That's OK.
What did he think was so corrupt about the justice system, I
wonder? I mean, he was committing
robberies and murders. He.
Clearly has. He was like, that's.
No respect for the law. Maybe, though, it's because his
dad was a. Police officer.
So his dad, you know, abused the.
Power, OK, that, I mean, that's very corrupt.
I'm thinking that is where that makes.
A lot of sense. He wrote or said, sign off, a
sign off for the murders. The tape concluded with a
haunting final message. It says, well, I'm going to sign
off for a little bit. I've got something I've got to
do. I love you.
Bye. Prosecutors use this as evidence
of premeditation. Oh yeah.
Believing that, he left the campsite to commit his first
murders immediately after stopping recording.
I'd believe that. I got to go.
Yeah, wrap it up. Some things to do.
I I'm needed. I'm needed somewhere I have an
appointment I'll record later. God wants me to do this.
The tapes were considered a turning point in the
investigation because Rowling identified himself by name on
the recording, directly linking him to the campsite and the
nearby crime scenes. Yeah, gotcha.
Yeah. Which I think is insane.
It's always they always keep a diary.
They do something most. Of the murders that we have
talked. About they kept something.
They kept something. Yeah, I that's don't keep
trophies. Look guys, if you want to murder
someone, don't keep a diary. Don't record anything.
Don't record anything, don't keep trophies.
Throw away your camera. Yeah, you need to take ego out
of it. Yeah, OK.
You're doing this for you. Yeah, you're doing this for you,
for God. You're doing this for God.
Stick it to the man. Yeah, OK.
Fuck the justice system. Obviously don't commit murder.
No, but, and thank you, the justice system for when you do
right sometimes. When you do the good things,
yeah, it's tough. I mean, it's not always.
Sunshine and daisies or something, whatever.
Love Daisies. Whatever the saying, rainbows
and. Sunshine.
Butterflies. No.
Rainbows and sunshine and rainbows.
Sunshine, rainbows and butterflies.
I think it's sunshine and rainbows.
OK, is there only one saying? I feel like there's.
More. I feel like there's probably
more. Let's ask God.
Dear God, it's not always blessings and curses.
Or it is. Or maybe it is.
I don't know. I don't know, but there are
videos that I am going to put in the show notes of what as far as
like the murders, no, as far as some of the trial and news
coverage and things like that. It is cool to see stuff like
from back in quote UN quote the day, even though it wasn't that
long ago. Well, and wait till you see a
picture of him. He looks like he could be your
buddy. History teacher at home.
Really. Yeah.
Interesting, do you have glasses?
No. Oh OK, you tested a mustache.
No, maybe what kind of not your teacher, maybe not your OK math
or PEI, don't fucking know. He looks like he works at a
school. He works sex Ed.
A DARE program. I was going to say the names
like the DARE program, but like for murder, he's like.
Yeah. Don't do murders while he's out
doing murders. I feel like that's usually how
it works. He's teaching law.
Yeah, that would make sense. He's a lot of teacher.
Of course he is. So yeah, I love this case
though. I thought it was so interesting.
It's so fast. It's so fast.
It's a really fast case that all happened very.
Boom boom, boom boom. There wasn't room for him to be
caught because it was until the end.
Within like a week or two, right?
Like 2 weeks. He's just being most heinous.
Yeah, honestly, like the posing terrible.
Are you kidding me? Right.
Which I wonder where he got that idea from.
Oh, wait, wait. No, Ted Bundy didn't do it.
There are similarities as far as like the college students, the
stabbings, yes, those things. But besides that, yeah, besides
that, he, that's his own. Thing.
Yeah, It was his signature. It was original.
Yeah. And it was the Gainesville
Ripper. I mean, that's a solid name.
I mean, Ripper's pretty kind of badass.
It is. It is.
Yeah, but he's a psycho. Oh yeah, he's not badass, but
it's a cool name. Yeah.
Like it would be a cool like metal band name Gainesville
Ripper or like something I don't know.
OK, so I did look up the psychology behind stabbing
victims in the back. OK.
So there's three No 4 reasons. So there's cowardice of fear or
confrontation. Attackers who strike from behind
often do so because they are unable or unwilling to face the
victim directly. It can stem from fear of
resistance, like they want to make sure they can't defend
themselves. Avoidance of human humanizing
the victim. Which is what you were
suggesting. Direct eye contact can trigger
empathy, which some killers subsequently or subconsciously
avoid making the ACT. Harder, right?
I mean, I assume that I would because I remember we talked
about how some, like serial killers especially, they need to
have that ability to empathize in order to get people in real,
you know, and be able to connect to people.
I don't think he. Didn't.
I don't think that he did. Any but maybe to this to the
point of like actually taking a life.
He didn't want to watch the life leave them right Which?
He could also potentially be a coward.
I mean, I don't think that he has a fear of confrontation
because clearly he was willing to confront them and also they
he stabbed them from the front originally, but to kill them,
yeah, he would generally flip them over and stab him in the
back and then it was a done. And then it was over.
Yeah. So the next one is ambush and
tactical advantage. So it eliminates witness.
Like, let's say he stabs them and they survive, then they
can't, you know, provide information on what they look
like or. That is true.
That makes a lot of sense. Control and power.
The act of attacking someone who is unaware or vulnerable can
provide the perpetrator with a sense of total domination.
OK, so again, it's like about power, Like throwing them down.
I control you, you can't do anything.
Yeah. Then there's symbolic betrayal
and internalized rage. So this is like the narcissistic
injury. If the attacker feels humiliated
or rejected, they may lash out in a cowardly way to regain a
sense of superiority without risking further ego damage in a
fair fight. So again making it so they are
unable to do anything. So we do know based off of his
songs, his album, that he felt pretty shitty about himself.
You know, he pretty much hated himself.
Yeah. And he thought that he was
pretty worthless. Yeah.
And that he let everyone in his family down, even though his
dad's a piece of shit. Yeah.
So I think that connecting it to that, I know that he that would
make him feel like power and dominance and it might boost his
ego a little bit being able to commit these murders.
I mean, that makes sense to me. I'm not really sure.
Yeah, no, I I agree with you. I think he, I don't know,
there's just, I keep going back to he didn't want to watch them.
Yeah. Or they didn't.
He didn't want them to see him killing them or or whatever.
I don't think it had anything to do with.
Because they were alive to the point, like, eventually they
bled out. Yeah.
You know, I don't think the backstabbing in particular
killed them. Mm Hmm.
I think that the bleeding out probably did, yeah, but it was
like he was done after they were flipped over and stabbed in the
back like that marked the end that.
Was it? Yeah.
Well, that was less the end scene.
Unless he went, he went back to some of the.
Bodies, yeah. You know, engaged in
necrophilia, right? And then posed them.
So that is true too. I think that as far as he didn't
want to watch the life. Yeah, actually on that.
End. That's yeah.
That's the only thing that. Makes sense, yeah.
And then there's the research on backstabbing personalities
suggests that individuals who avoid direct conflict in daily
life may resort to literal attacks from behind when their
hidden rage finally boils over. So again, something similar.
And then there's just overkill. Which I definitely think that it
was. Intense emotion.
Yes. I think that he had a lot of
bottled emotion. Yeah.
That he didn't know how to get out.
And that was the only way because he didn't talk about,
like, friends. No, no, no, no.
Or anything. Like he was a loner.
He was a drifter. He had a hard time with society.
And as a whole. I mean, he lived in a tent in
the woods. It's completely ostracized from,
well, everything. Him ostracizing himself from.
He made that decision, yeah. Pretty young too.
And let's see, it also indicates cumulative rage or like frenzied
state where the attacker continues to strike even after
the victim has turned away to flee or has fallen.
OK, so again that could make sense it.
Could make sense. There's also jealousy, but I
don't think that's the case at all.
Intense hostility which the perpetrator to annihilate the
victim. I don't think that he was that
kind of no, I don't think that like he hated women or and there
was also a man that he killed. So I don't know.
I don't know either. I think he definitely had some
rage though, because there were certain victims that he stabbed
like a lot 26 times, right? And you don't do that.
You don't do that. Like, oh, I'm just so happy or
like, I'm enjoying this. Yeah, there's some sorts of
like. There's something behind that.
There's gotta be rage. There's a rage, there's a
sadness. There's something.
Yeah. Going along with that, but also
at the same time, maybe he just did that to fuck with us.
Like, you know, maybe there isn't anything behind it at all.
No, I think he just like wanted to, obviously.
He wanted to make sure it was done, that's for sure.
But beyond that, I mean, we'll never really know because he's
dead. He's a Goddard.
He's dead now. I wish we could talk to him.
That would be cool maybe. Shout out, you know, Ouija
board, Yeah. Hell no.
I. Don't want any next episode
we're going to be possessed. No, God, no.
Welcome to Crimes. Oh my God, that'd be insane.
Also the solar plexus. Oh, let's get into that.
It's a dense network of nerves in the upper abdomen behind the
stomach that controls digestive organ function and acts as a
central communication hub. It's often associated with the
Manipura chakra, which is the third chakra in yoga.
It's symbolized by the color yellow.
It also. I wonder what mine looks like or
or is it healthy? Is that what they say when they
talk about gut health? Oh, does have to do with your
digestive tract? So maybe, maybe we just need to
get our chakras in order. The yellow.
One the yellow, just the yellow. The rest of it, fuck.
I'm gonna wear yellow like here tomorrow.
OK, I did just buy a yellow pair of sweatpants.
Whoa. I know.
Yellow sweatpants, are they like?
If you introduce them. Yellow.
Does that make sense? No, they're a little bit yellow.
Yellow. OK, I'll show you like P yellow
like oh, like A Yeah, yeah, yellow like a sun, yellow A.
Dehydrated P yellow. OK, so like darker yellow I need
to see them. Yeah, I'll show you it.
Doesn't matter. It doesn't.
They're super cute. But also this part of your body
it so it's part of the sympathetic nervous system and
it controls that fight or flight.
I don't think that he was particularly aiming for that,
but he did do that to the male. He Oh, that's interesting.
So that was a weird connection. I mean, we're grasping at straws
here. Yeah, I think that's the saying,
right? Grasping.
At yes, yes. I don't know.
Grasping at straws. Yeah.
OK. That sounds right.
We are. So smart people listen to this
and they're like, wow, they're so dumb.
So. Genius.
They're gonna go so far with this pot.
So far. So I think that that's
interesting because when you feel like that knot in your
stomach for pain or anxiety, that's that.
That's the plexus. That's the plexus.
Solar plexus. Yes, your yellow chakra.
Shout out to my plexus chakras and your plexus anyway.
Well. Super cool.
Not the case, but the. Yeah, no, I mean, it is a cool
case, but it's just, it's just such a fast case.
Like it's just, it's wild. It's just like boom boom, boom
boom. Boom.
And that's it. So, like, you could go over all
of it so fast. I know I did.
Oh, yeah, I guess kind of. Yeah, you did.
If you have any more information about the psychology behind
backstabbing. Yeah, well, there's also like
best friends that backstab you or family members that backstab
you. Yeah, it's a whole thing I.
Mean there's physical backstabbing.
There's just backstabbed by life, emotional.
Backstabbing, yeah, there's a lot of just don't.
There's a lot of backstabbing. People don't backstab.
People don't do it. It's not nice, all right?
We don't like that. Stay safe.
Then remember, we didn't do it.