I'm Aaron. And I'm Dana.
And this is. Crimes we didn't commit.
We're here again. Here we go.
Welcome to this this Podcast of Us episode. 5.
I know we're doing it. I know we were.
We were talking about how like, Oh yeah in our first episode.
Which was 4 episodes. It was 4 weeks ago, a month.
Oh wow, I know my ear itches. Itch it, it's fine now.
Yeah, it's pretty cool. It is really cool.
I feel like we're actually doing something.
Yeah, but I also really enjoy it.
I absolutely enjoy it. I think doing it two days a week
has, it's been nice to start the week and end the week.
That way, yeah, it feels 'cause it's fun to do.
And I was talking to a friend of mine at lunch yesterday about
how, like, having, like, a margin for, like, things and
like time for yourself. Yeah.
And I was mentioning how this takes a big block of my time.
Yeah, it does. But it's something that I don't
want to sacrifice. And I, it doesn't feel like a
waste, more like, you know, it doesn't feel like time spent.
No. You know.
Yeah. And it's.
It's nice. Yeah, I agree it.
Feels good. I wish we could just stay here
forever, Jinx. And that was our podcast.
Thanks for joining us. Stay safe.
Bye. But anyway, cuz things don't
things are good things are good. I have to mention.
No, this just sounds problematic.
Nothing. I have to mention a few episodes
ago I. Don't know what it is but I'm
here for it. When we mentioned Notre Dame.
Oh yeah, it's not on the East Coast.
It's definitely not on the East Coast.
So my my dad called me and he said, did I raise you right?
And I was like, what? Out of nowhere, I.
Was like what did I do? And then I know I made some
mistakes but. It was a long time ago.
And he's like, you don't know where Notre Dame is.
And you're. Like I was like, fuck.
So it's it's in Indiana. OK.
It doesn't sound like it would be in Indiana.
No, Indiana just doesn't sound like.
That it doesn't. But now I know.
Yeah, we know. That it is.
And I was so confident about it being on these.
Yes IA 100% thought it was in Massachusetts.
Yeah, I thought it was somewhere in New England somewhere.
And I trusted you. I trusted myself.
I know. So thank you, Dad.
Thanks, Dad. Thanks, Dad.
Now I know where one college is. Because there's a was I talking
to you about this? How there's a University of
Miami not in Miami. Yes, yeah, yeah, That doesn't
make sense. And Oh yeah, I was talking
about. This yeah on the podcast and oh,
there's a yeah, there's a yes. We were talking on the phone
about this. Oh, we were.
You're right. I feel like your sister was
involved. She was, yeah, yeah.
Shout out. Had to, you know, dial her in.
Yep, for a business meeting exactly like the University of
Phoenix. Isn't that just like an online
college? It is and maybe AI think we
should not talk. About colleges, no.
I think we should just XNA. On college.
A on college A. Because we don't know.
No, we're probably going to talk about this again.
Maybe. Yeah, we'll see.
And we'll most likely be wrong, but that's OK.
I don't mind being wrong because you know what I think.
When it comes to that funny, no, I don't.
I don't care. No, I don't care either.
I. Barely understand.
I don't know stuff. You're lucky I know what
colleges are OK. Well, I mean, I think it would
be easier if we watch like college sports or something and
I don't and we don't. I see them, yeah.
And I know they happen, yes. And yeah, that's.
It and they play. They do, and they play so, so
hard. They play hard and they play
good and they just really do it and.
Teams, yeah, and they do a good job.
Go college. Phoenix, wherever you are in the
ether. But that's OK.
We're fine. We're fine.
Touchdown. I feel like go been on a big
banana cake. You know, I see the I saw the
banana because I just ate a banana and there's like a banana
peel on your coffee table. Yes.
Not anymore. I threw it in the trash.
Sorry, I didn't mean to out you like that.
Make me sound so. Disgusting here.
Hey, it's fruit, at least we're eating hell they.
But no, I got a bunch of bananas because I made the best Burnt,
burnt, burst, burst, burst, burst.
I made the best banana bread that I've ever made in my life.
Yeah, I need the recipe. You got it.
OK, I'll send it to you. Please do so.
I bought a bunch so I put. Chocolate in it?
Yes. OK, good.
Were there walnuts in? It.
No, I don't do that. OK.
No, some people do, some people don't.
Sometimes I like it in there. Yeah, I don't know, but.
The with the chocolate chips, it's just so good.
It needs chocolate in it. Banana and chocolate go hand in
hand. Yep, and I feel like they're
they should never not be together.
I agree and sometimes peanut butter.
Peanut butter's great. Oh, putting peanut butter on a
piece of banana bread. Yes.
It's fucking game over. That sounds great.
Yeah, we just worked out. I'm hungry.
Yeah, we deserve this. Honestly, we work out every time
we have podcast day. Oh yeah, we do.
Before or after? Yeah, yeah, one or the other.
I feel like it's good for something.
I think. It makes our brain work not
well. Our muscles are strong, but the
brain muscle is we. Yeah, maybe we should do like
crossword puzzles or something. I don't, I can't we're.
Sudoku's. Sudoku What?
You're lucky that we can formulate a sentence, to be
honest. So.
Oh, I. Can't wait to talk about murder.
I can't do crosswords, I just not good at that.
I like the people ones in the magazine.
Oh, I'm not good at those either.
I'm terrible at celebrities. Oh yeah, and.
I don't know why, because I've watched things.
I just don't keep up, you know, with the Kardashians.
So. My sister, she doesn't know the
name of. Yeah, she's not.
She's not good at that. But she watches stuff.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's how I am.
Yeah. Nice.
It's so funny, 'cause I'll say, you know who this is and she's
like Aaron. No, no I don't.
I don't know. And I'm like, OK.
That's fine. If you say like the guy with the
nose, Owen Wilson got it. Yeah.
You know, Yeah, yeah, 100%. But if I say the character's
name in the show or in the. Movie.
She'll know. Yeah, OK.
That makes sense. So we're one and the same.
Yeah. OK.
Yep, that's good. You guys could talk about it we.
Probably could, yeah, and wouldn't go very far.
No, since we don't know anyone. I know Ryan Reynolds is doing
net mobile. Oh, sick.
Kevin Hart's sponsoring Burn Burn.
Yeah, yeah. You go Kevin.
You go little Kevin. Yeah, you're the best.
He's so funny. He is a funny dude.
Best friend. So Russia.
Russia. Let's talk about Russia.
I was gonna do another murder and then I didn't, so now we're
here. And we're doing this Russian.
We are doing this. I've always been fascinated with
Russia. It's just an interesting, It's
just an interesting zone. It's mostly not.
I've been terrified, honestly, of Russia.
Really. I was always intrigued by it in
middle school. Was it middle school?
Yeah. In 8th grade, we had like a
independent study that we could do, and me and my friends
decided to do it on Russia. And we even, like, zoomed with
kids in at a fourth grade class in Siberia.
Whoa. Yeah.
And they had like 1 computer at the principal's house and they
would come and like, the parents were all in the background and
they're like taking pictures of us and stuff like that.
It was very, really fascinating experience.
OK, I don't know how we did. That so Wait Siberia.
Is like in there? Is it?
In Russia. I think it's a different zone,
but. Siberia is its own country,
right? So it's like, so Russia is that
small portion along the line of that area.
OK. And then Siberia is like
everything else past like the cold zone.
I guess I'm gonna let me. I think you're wrong.
OK, but I don't know. I thought Russia was pretty.
Large. It's a region in Russia, Ohio,
OK, So OK. It's like Midwest is here.
But to there to the east, I think I'm not spatially aware.
Very, very good. I don't know cardinal
directions, but it says it's a vast region of Russia covering
most of North Asia, stretching from the Ural Mountains to the
Pacific Ocean. So it's it's massive.
But anyway, they're very like secluded there, so and isolated
and it's very cold. They have one computer.
They speak Russian in Siberia. Yes.
And that's when I learned the three lines that I know in
Russian, which is my name is what's your name?
And pleased to meet you. OK.
And then mutton, how to say mutton which is Barania or
something? Like that I know how to say yes
da. Da da.
Because I'm afraid. Yeah, anything you say.
Are you American da da da? Well, this, this this guy, this
guy is from from there, OK? His name was Andre Romanovich.
That sounds so Russian. That's his middle name and it's
Chikatilo. Chikatilo, I believe, is his
last name and he was born on October 16th of 1936 in the
Yablo Yablochene, which is a village in the heart of the
rural Ukraine, which was, this is like USSR time.
Totally. Yeah.
You know this one. I know this place, yeah.
So during the 30s, Ukraine was known as like, the bread basket
of the Soviet Union. But this whole entire time, like
the 30s, it was super tragic. There was like a lot of famine.
There was like Stalin's policy during that time.
We're just gonna get a little into the history here.
OK? So salon's policy had like
agricultural collectivization, grain procurement, and there was
like a restrictions on movement. It just was widespread hardship
and famine that just decimated the population there.
Ukraine is going through it is scary.
There's a lot of scary shit happened in that area.
And it's already cold like on top of it.
That's too much. But anyway, so it was known as
the Holodomer. I believe it's what the name of
that time is anyway. So at the time of Andre's birth,
the effects of the famine were still very widely felt.
And his childhood was heavily influenced by deprivation, you
know, just starvation in like every case of everything.
That's sad. It is really sad.
Like, I hate to hear kids going through stuff like that.
You know, it sucks for adults to go through things like that too.
Yeah, and it sucks for like the parents not to be able to
provide for their. Kids.
Yeah, that's. That's so hard.
But if the situation wasn't bad enough, it was made even worse
when the USSR entered World War Two against Germany, bringing
sustained bombing raids on Ukraine.
So Ukraine just they need a fucking break.
There's just this shits they do hitting the fan.
Talk about history repeating. Itself.
I know, it's crazy. So external hardships aside,
Andre was pretty fucked from the get go because he is believed to
have suffered from hydrocephalus, which is water on
the brain. It's an abnormal buildup of
cerebrospinal fluid in the brain's ventricles, causing
increased pressure in the skull. Ouch.
Yeah, that sounds like a terrible time.
Yeah. It causes headaches, nausea,
vomiting, double vision, seizures, all of that.
Yeah. Good stuff.
So he was suffering from that at birth which caused him genital
urinary tract problems later in life.
I don't know how it correlates, but.
So we had pee issues. After that, yeah.
OK, So I mean, I don't know how that goes together, but
apparently it does. It sounds sciency.
This also included bed wetting into his late adolescence
triangle. Probably as he got older he
couldn't sustain an erection, but he was able to ejaculate so.
That's good for him. That is good for him.
I feel like being able to have that release is important, but
also that's really bad for him, you know?
But it it burns when he pees. I wonder if.
Oh yeah. I don't wonder though.
I I don't, but I kind of do. It's interesting.
Yeah, right in, if you know. Yeah.
So his home life was already ruined but then his father got
drafted into the war against Germany so as while his dad was
there the dad was captured and he was held prisoner and he
eventually was rescued or like got out somehow.
I I don't really know. But when he returned he was
vilified by the countrymen for allowing himself to be captured.
Which fuck off. I mean, if you're a POW, how is
that your fault? I don't know.
I don't know, but apparently it was and everyone hated him for
it. They're like you are a coward
and you got captured. So they look at him like he's
weak and wow, that probably made him angry.
Yes, and those people just suck. Let them get captured and see
how it feels. Yeah.
You know, Yeah. They have no idea.
Hate them. But it didn't just impact his
dad. Andre also suffered the
consequences of his father's quote UN quote like cowardice.
So. And it got him bullied a lot in
school. Yeah, and that blows.
Yeah, and it's never fun. Plus if they find out he's bed
wetting. Oh, on top of that and now he
can't get an erection and his brain has lots of fluid.
And it burns when he pees. Yeah, yeah, that's a recipe for
disaster. I bully him too but no, all the
bullying and everything else he was dealing with made him really
shy so we didn't really have any romantic relationships until he
was about 15. Which I didn't have any romantic
relationships when I was 15 personally, but I think that
that's a normal time too. I have them.
I feel like most people are on the age of 13 ish.
Yeah. I mean something.
Describe Romantic. I let's be real.
Well, I'm thinking it's just like relations, like people are,
you know, OK, I'm gonna kiss you.
Yeah. Whatever the well, there's the
whole like, I have a crush on them, they have a crush on me.
They write them in. We're dating, but we don't talk
exactly, you know, those kinds of things.
But he didn't have that. Poor guy.
So sad but these these relations were reported.
OK so he did have a romantic relation ish when he was 15 and
it was reported to be an assault where he overpowered a young
girl, ejaculating immediately during the struggle which he.
What a coward. Such a bed letter.
So he got more ridicule because of that.
Oh God, two second Andre is his name now.
This experience of humiliation impacted all of his future.
First year. Of course it did.
And it solidified the association of sex with violence
for him because he immediately got off from the violence.
So the remainder of his schooling pretty much went this
way. And he ended up failing his
entrance exam to the Moscow. Is it Moscow or Moscow?
People tell me it's Moscow. I think either way, I think
we're Americans, so we could say however we want.
Yeah, we can do whatever we want here.
Yeah, we have autonomy. The Moscow State University and
he was enlisted in the national service for a period of time
like out of obligation and after he was released from there he
moved to Rodia Novo Nez Veteski. I love how you went into it.
I tried, did my best. Which is a town near Rostov, IN
and he moved there in 1960 and he became a telephone engineer.
So while he was there, his sister ended up moving in with
him and she kind of attempted to wing man for him because she was
really worried about just his lack of success with women.
Was she older? Younger.
Ohh yes OK, so she was. She was like big bro.
Yeah, I'm gonna. Yeah.
Yeah, You know, I'm gonna get you a cute girl.
Yeah. And you're gonna have a happy
life. And you'll have stamina.
Yes, you will definitely get. I believe in you.
Yeah. So she ended up setting up a
meeting with a local girl who he ended up marrying in 63.
So despite all of the sexual problems and, like, the lack of
interest in conventional sex, they managed to have two
children and lived what to look like.
What to look like? Normal.
Yeah. A normal life.
Everyone just thought they everything was fine.
Turned on a dime. Yeah, in 1971 he made a career
change and became a school teacher.
So he went from telephone engineer to school teacher.
And during this time there was a string of complaints.
Naturally. He ended up detaining a female
student after class attempted to assault her, sexually struck her
with a ruler and ejaculated during the incident.
Like in his pants. I'm sorry, that's so mean.
I'm sure that people go through these things, but it's just.
No, but fuck. Him.
Yeah, he sucks. Yeah, I'm laughing at.
Him So although no formal charges resulted from the
incident, there were parental reports and like school rumors
that prompted his resignation in 74.
Does it say what grade he was teaching?
No, OK, I did not see that. I know that it was like lower.
Oh, OK. No, not lower elementary
necessarily, but like lower grades, got it.
Not college level. They weren't adults.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That much I know.
So similar patterns of alleged misconduct, including fondling
teenagers and exposing himself, reoccurred across all of the
roles that he's had as a teacher 'cause he would just up and move
every, every single time. He's changed school multiple
times and I'm just like why not? I've never understood the expose
situations. Just be like, look at this.
Look at my Dick. Like, I don't get it.
Like, hey, look over here, like what?
How do you get off on that? Element of surprise, I guess.
And the kids like, ha, there's a penis.
And he's like, yeah. So.
I'm pulling my pants back up. I.
Guess that's what it is. It's.
So strange. That's how it works.
That's how it seems at least. I don't actually know, but it's.
Like they don't think it through.
No, not at all. It's an impulse.
All an impulse and an urge and they just react to it.
I just don't get it. I don't either.
So all of that stuff, you know, was very reoccurring and it led
to his departure from, it says 3 to 5 teaching jobs between 73
and 81. OK.
His first known victim was on December 22nd, 1978.
So he hadn't, you know, hurt anyone.
Well, he hurt people. Yeah, but he hasn't like, killed
anyone. Killed anyone.
There's no murders committed during that time that we're
aware of. I wonder what his wife thinks of
all these complaints. Or maybe she doesn't know.
She does know, but she I feel like she's like turning a blind.
She's like you're misunderstood, honey.
Yeah, they don't know. You, it's the kids.
It has to be. They don't know.
They are just lying. They have to be lying.
So the first time victim was on December 22nd of 1978, Andre
murdered 9 year old Yelena Zaco Zaco to Nova near a local
market. So he lured her into a vacant
one story house that he had access to under the pretext of
paying her 25 rubles to view his stamp collection, which I don't
know, OK, why, but that's. Why?
First of all, rubles is so funny, Yeah, and 2nd off what
it's. It could be a very exciting
stamp collection. I just don't know why a nine
year old would be excited about stamp collection, but maybe
there's an. Adult being like, oh come look
at this and I'll give you money for you.
You're 9. You're just like, hell yeah.
Also, everyone's poor right now so give me whatever you want to
give me. It doesn't matter.
So inside the house he attempted to rape the girl, but she
resisted fiercely, which, good on her 'cause she's fucking 9.
He or she bit and scratched him. During the struggle, he became
overcome by panic and rage and he manually strangled her until
she was dead, and then he stabbed her abdomen multiple
times with a knife and further mutilated the body.
And he subsequently dragged the corpse to a nearby river, where
he discarded her into freezing water and weighed her down so
she would sink. Oh my God.
So it was that was a big thing. Like, that's not something, you
know, obviously he was assaulting girls and things like
that beforehand, but now there was a sense of panic that I feel
like he didn't have before. Yeah, I, I just, how did he
think this was going to play out like?
I don't think that he really thought it through, no.
I mean, I he had to have known that he was going to kill her
because he had a knife. Yeah, I.
Guess, but it could also have just been for a threatening
purposes. Yeah, like you're gonna do what
I want you to do or else. Right, 'cause that's what he'd
done previously. He didn't think he had to follow
through with the OR else, right? And he did.
That's what ended up happening. Right.
I mean, and he went, he did all the things in order to get rid
of the body. Like, he obviously knew what he
was doing. Yeah.
So the discovery of her body was on December 25th of 1978 after
it surfaced downstream. Oh, so four days?
Whoa it. Took some time, yeah, because it
was way down and it was also freezing.
So I don't know how that plays into things, but I'm sure
there's some sort of science explanation.
This is Russia, yeah. I don't know Siberia prompt.
So all of that prompted a local investigation by so this area of
Russia was called Shakti. So it prompted an investigation
by the local police who noted signs of sexual violence and
strangulation as the primary cause of death.
There were traces of blood in the snow leading towards Andre's
residence, which drew suspicion to him as a potential witness.
Or suspect. Interesting SO.
It would be immediate suspect in my mind because there is a trail
of fucking blood going to his house.
Which is so weird. OK, so he dumped the body in a
river. Yep.
The body floated downriver, Yep, towards his house.
I guess so, yeah. What the fuck?
Yeah, he didn't think that part. No, not very well.
No, I don't think that I would have either.
Oh, I wouldn't calculate. I don't.
Maybe I would. Well, if my house was planning,
if I was planning a murder, yeah, probably I would.
And if it was spur of the moment, had to do something.
Then no. But if my house was near a
river, I probably wouldn't choose.
That river? No, not if it was near my house.
Doesn't doesn't make sense. But anyway, so it led him to be
a potential witness or suspect which led to his interrogation.
So this is where his wife comes in.
So his wife provided an alibi claiming he had been home with
her that evening and forensic evidence at the time, which was
limited by the Soviet era technology and just the
procedures that they had failed to conclusively link him,
resulting in his release without any charges.
Oh, so they picked him up, OK. They did, they tried, yeah, but
they didn't really have any actual evidence 'cause you could
be bleeding by accident for. Look at his history though.
I know. Like the all the complaints from
the school, the actual assault that happened, well, maybe he
didn't get caught for that either, but.
Well, no, like he there were reports there weren't any like
legitimate police reports of all of those, which is wild, I know,
but there was a lot going on during that time.
Similar to a cannibal guy. Like there was a shit ton going
on that no. One was, I mean, a bombs are
dropping over there. They're not so concerned about.
Unfortunately, they're not concerned about.
That but they were concerned to do investigations, but they also
just, they just didn't have the resources available.
I know so. Andre later admitted that that
killing in particular initiated his pattern of increasingly
violent sexual homicides, which makes sense.
Yeah, well, he got away with the first one.
He. Did.
And he found out his wife is going to have his back.
So he was good. And he was driven by all of
these compulsive urges that he described as uncontrollable,
which again, doesn't make sense to me, but that's OK.
So for that particular murder, there was a man, his name was
Alexander Kravichenko Kravichenko.
And he was a 25 year old with a previous rape conviction, like a
legitimate conviction. And he was arrested and
confessed to the crime under duress, probably as a result of
extensive and brutal interrogation which they use as
tactics at the time. Yeah, so he got away with that.
He did get away with that and someone else was convicted of it
and he was also tried and killed and executed in 84.
Wow. For that incident.
How was he executed? Probably by gun because we're
going to see that's, that's that's how they did it, OK.
That's fascinating. So as a result, at least we
think as a result of this close brush with the law, there were
no more documented victims for the next three years.
Interesting. But with all those claims of
child abuse and sexual assault, Andre found it impossible to
find another teaching job, which makes sense.
Thank God. You know, that's good.
They were just like, you know what?
I don't think that is for you. You need to do something.
Three strikes, you're out. Yeah.
Bye. Got it.
So he. Notre Dame.
So we took a job as a clerk for a raw materials factory in
Rostov where the travel that he had to do with the position, it
gave him unlimited access to a wide range of young victims over
the next nine years. Yeah, that sucks.
Yeah. Like.
Yeah, 'cause then you're talking about different law enforcement
agencies. Oh yeah, in that time, they're
not all communicating. No, they don't have the
resources available. There's other shit going on.
It's the. Perfect recipe for a serial.
Colorer, like obviously during this time now it's no longer the
war is not going on, but there's still repercussions.
Yeah, the aftermath, yeah. Yeah, anyway, so on September
3rd of 1981, he murdered Larissa Tekchenko, who was a 17 year old
student. So he again lured her into an
area, this time it was a wooded area, where he stabbed her
repeatedly in the neck, gagged her with dirt and leaves,
stabbed her in the chest and abdomen before engaging in
necrophilia. Oh yeah, so he went all in.
Yes, he did. He was just balls deep, like all
the way. I don't know why.
OK so he stabbed her in the neck a bunch of times and then gagged
her. Like she could fucking scream or
talk after. That I think that he is so
aroused by violence. So it was not so much.
The it's not about. Keeping her quiet.
It's just. He wants to do those things and
I'm assuming as he goes along in his fucked up career of being a,
you know, a serial killer, he needs to do more and more, I
would assume. Well, yeah, eventually that
thing isn't going to get you off an.
Hour so now he has to, you know, start stabbing A bajillion more
times than in different areas of the body and seeing what like
this looks like or this. How it?
Feels whatever anyway. Can't relate, no.
Her body was discovered the following day and this incident
in particular marked a shift towards targeting adolescents
and young adults encountered at train stations or public areas.
Cause those people are more Drifters and there are fewer
people actually paying attention to those.
So they go missing. Yeah, it's like if no one really
cares, it's kind of like with the killers who target sex
workers. I was going to say, like the
Gilgo murders, the Go Go Beach murders.
Yes, Yep, yeah. So that's sucks, but
unfortunately, people just didn't care as much.
But it does start to get on people's radar eventually.
So he lured these adolescents and young adults with the under
the pretense of offering like alcohol or assistance or
whatever, something to just get them to come on over.
Between June and December of 1982, Andre escalated his
killings, claiming at least six victims, which were
predominantly children. On June 12th, he abducted and
stabbed. I can't pronounce her name.
Louis Bove Biryuk, potentially. Not bad.
Maybe who was 13, He stabbed her over 20 times, including strikes
to her eyes, leaving her body partial partially skeletonized
when it was found months later. I'm going to name multiple
victims now that were murders that were committed during this
short period of time. So there was Oleg, who was age
9. He was killed on August 13th.
He. Yes, so he also.
Switching it up. Yes, he does start to switch it
up. Then there was Olga Kuprina who
was 16 on August 16th, and there was Sergey Koosman who was 15.
Then another Olga, Stalma Chainok, who was 10.
And these bodies were typically dumped in the forest or rivers
after manual strangulation, followed by knifing to the torso
and genitals. So these crimes occurred
primarily in the Shakti and Rostov region, exploiting the
transient nature of the railway sightings.
And like just the rural outskirts.
Those poor kids I know. And these are kids that just
didn't know what to do with themselves.
You know they. Like I said, there are Drifters.
They were so young to be like that.
But I'm curious and I'll look up this later and I'll put it in
the show notes like what he looks like and if he's if he
looks like that approachable type.
He did. Whoa, yeah.
He was conventionally attractive.
Symmetrical face, right? You know, when he was younger,
after his capture, he looked fucking psycho.
Oh, I'm sure. But at the beginning, he looked
just like a dude. So at this time, serial killers
were a virtually unknown phenomena in the Soviet Union.
They've like, refused to believe it.
There was a thing like that in the Soviet.
Union. That is fascinating.
Yes. So evidence of serial killing or
child abuse in general was sometimes suppressed by the
state controlled media in the interests of public order.
His case is noteworthy not only because of the large number of
victims, but because of the efforts by the Soviet police to
issue warnings during the public, which wasn't really
happening. So they were trying to push
those warnings even though the media was trying to suppress it.
It's like it's happening, but like chill, but it's not
happening, yeah. So it basically everything that
they were told was asserting that serial murder was
impossible in a communist society.
See, Russia is Scary. It is very scary.
The eye mutilation was a modus operandi distinct enough to
allow for other cases to be linked finally.
So now things dots are being connected, the lines are, you
know, on the cork board there things are happening.
The yarn is intersecting. In places and when the Soviet
authorities finally admitted that they had a serial killer to
contend with, they were just like they were able to do that
because they could link these cases.
Now, as the body count mounted, rumors of foreign inspired plots
and werewolf attacks became more prevalent.
So they're blaming these murders also on werewolves.
Yeah, they're just like, it can't be our people.
Yeah, can't be people who do this, not our people.
And with all of that going on, the public fear and the interest
grew despite the lack of any media coverage.
So all of that shit that I just mentioned happened in one year.
That was in 82. Whoa.
So he he goes home. Yeah, he was busy.
In 1983, Andre murdered around 8 individuals, continuing the
pattern of opportunistic. OK, OK.
Opportunistic. We love that word.
Abductions College The key cases included Igor Goodkoff, who was
seven. He was killed in the summer.
No, no, no, no, no, no. Vera Shevkin, who was 19 on
October 27th, Sergey Markov, who was 14 on December 27th.
And these victims were stabbed extensively, some mutilated
postmortems and remains concealed in wooded or aquatic
sites. So.
There's just no rhyme or reason to this fucking guy.
No, he picks whoever and it's very strange to me that he also
switches to males. I that is what I can't
understand. I I can't either.
Well, I have a whole like psychological breakdown because
there was this girl now girl, she was a woman and she did her
like master's dissertation or something on him in particular,
Andre Chikatilo. So there's a deep dive into the
psychology. I have like 6 fucking pages
based off of her 300 page. Dissertation.
Yeah, OK, I got 6 pages out of it.
We're gonna read the whole thing The.
Whole 300 page. It's gonna be a 18,000,000
Potter. Oh God, what a guy to do it on.
Though I know that guy. Like there was just so much
going on with him. The.
Lack of pattern, but also the pattern, yeah.
Yeah, it's really weird. We.
Go from a 19 year old to a 7 year old, I just.
From a 19 year old woman to a 7 year old boy to a 8 year old
girl to a 17 year old boy. Or whatever.
All over the place it really. Is so Other victims from this
year encompassed adolescence, like Laura Sarkeesian, who was
15 and they were also adults, such as Valentina Chu Chu
Chulina, who was 22. So like I like we were just
saying there's no consistent age, there's no consistent
gender preference. It's just all who's vulnerable.
But it seems like the actual killings.
The killings are the same. They very much are.
It's either strangulation or some form of stabbing.
There's stabbing involved, sometimes the eyes, There's
obvious sexual assault. So the murders were increasing
in frequency and brutality, though the Soviet authorities
initially linked them to a different like he they first
linked them to different perpetrators.
OK, because they didn't want the idea of a serial killer.
Yeah, well, they also. Connected the dots.
They also executed a man. For for one of these.
Crimes that they're now saying OK, that that happened with them
Yep, this is continuing to happen even after we.
He he's dead now. We.
Got rid of him. So sorry.
In 1983, Moscow Detective Major Mikhail Fet Fetisov.
Fetisov. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
He assumed control of the investigation.
He recognized that a serial killer might be on the loose and
assigned a specialist forensic analysis analyst, Viktor
Burakov, to head the investigation.
In the Shakti area, which is where most of this was
happening, It was it was more centralized there and it would
go into the outskirts. So they're finally opening up an
investigation. Yes, like a legitimate one.
This, this detective in particular was like, there's no.
This is happening. This is actually happening and
we're going to put some people on this.
Thank God for him. The investigation centered
around known sex offenders and the mentally ill, but the
interrogation tactics solicited false confessions from
prisoners, leaving Burakov skeptical of the majority of the
confessions. So progress was super slow,
especially as at that stage not a lot of the victims bodies had
been discovered yet. So there were a lot of murders
like these are obviously not obviously, but I'm able to give
you all these names because they were eventually discovered, but
not all of them were at the time.
So the true body count was unknown to the police.
With each body, the forensic evidence did mount.
The police were convinced that the killer had the blood type
AB. Interesting, that's a kind of a
rare blood type. Too.
Yeah, it is. But they took this, they were.
They were able to figure that out based off of the semen
samples collected from a number of the crime scenes.
And they also had samples of identical Gray hair that were
retrieved. Oh.
So that was interesting. Yeah, that sounds like they have
a lot of evidence. So that was in 1983.
That all happened in 83. There were 15 more victims that
were added during the course of 84 and the police efforts were
increased drastically because or they also mounted like massive
surveillance operations that canvassed the local
transportation like hubs. So.
So now there's so many victims like each year had, you know,
average. 15 more and more and more and more Wow.
The police involvement increase because of his killing spree
escalating dramatically and with those 15 confirmed murders
representing the peak annual tally and his criminal career.
And it was just a sharp increase of the sporadic offenses of the
prior years. So he's popping off.
So even while they're doing this investigation.
He's going it's. Still happening.
There's no stopping him. He's not.
Well, he's completely unaware that they're doing this
investigation. I'm assuming that he might be
aware, but he's getting away with all of it because even
though it's not like public, like media, there's no real
media coverage. He lives in the town this is
happening in. True.
How can he not see, you know, police?
Yeah, all over the place. Interesting.
And he's still doing this thing because he has this
uncontrollable urge. Can't touch this.
OK. The victims included children,
teenagers and adults of both sexes, often lured from the bus
stops or train stations in that region of the Rostov region and
the Shakti with promises of food, alcohol, rides, just like
at the beginning of his killing career.
So none of that changed. OK.
That's how we got got them. Yes, he transported them to
nearby forest parks. There's this one park in
particular, it's called Aviators Park, where he attempted to
sexually assault before stabbing them repeatedly, sometimes over
50 times, some of his victims. To death followed by extensive
mutilations including the removal now of genitals,
tongues, eyes, noses and like uterus using knife or his teeth.
Oh God. Yeah, he's going.
This is it's escalated drastically.
Yeah. Patterns in these crimes
revealed a heightened compulsivity.
And did you see how I pronounce that articulate it was.
Really, really good. Compulsivity, college and risk
taking with killings clustered in the summer months but then
also the winter months because he like went hard in December a
lot of the. Time.
Yeah, that was like his first stint.
Yes, that's when he did his first killing.
Yes, yeah, like Christmas time. Yes.
Merry Christmas and the season of murder, Santa.
So his methods started prolonging the victim's
sufferings because at first. It was like immediate kill.
Pretty much he would strangle them.
There would be post mortem. Necrophilia.
All of that. But now it's they're alive, a
lot more stabbing, they're bleeding out.
He's doing things. It's a weird time.
So some of the things that he did was the slow stabbing in
initial punching instead. For instance, on March 27th of
1984, ten year old Dmitri Pashto Nokhevkov was stabbed stamped
was stabbed over 54 times. Goodness, that's.
That's a. Lot of times, yeah.
That is a lot of times and this was near Shakti, which is where
all of this police saying is happening and they still are not
getting him. It blows my mind.
And if the news were to put it out, I feel like it would.
Have been done. It would have been done, but
also. Someone would have said
something, I feel. Like the the victims wouldn't
have just followed a strange man into wherever you know.
Yes, because I have stamps and. They're like, I don't know you,
dude. Yeah, I don't want your
alkaline. They're like, no duh.
No duh. Oh Nyat, nyat.
In May 1984, Andre killed Tanya Petrosyan, who was 32, by
stabbing and hammering her head. She also had a daughter that he
beheaded after a similar assault.
Oh my God. The daughter's name was Feta.
In August we saw a very rapid succession.
There was 16 year old Natasha Gloskovskaya who was stabbed on
August 2nd, 17 year old Loyda Alexei Alexei of So Sorry It's
OK who was slowly stabbed on August 5th to extend the agony.
And there was 11 year old Sasha Chepel who was mutilated with
her eyes gouged out on August 18th.
Like that's August 2nd, 5th, 18th.
Like that's not that. No, that's pretty consecutive.
That's and this is 1984. This is 1984 now.
So he's only sixth year sure of murder 1978. 78 to now, yes.
Well I guess he did it in December of 78 so it's
technically like 5 years but whatever.
What is his wife thinking, I wonder?
I don't know, I didn't hear anything about the wife later
on. OK, So I don't know if she's
still around, OK, I'm assuming that she is because they have
young kids still, right? So but I'm just guessing she's
just, no, she's disassociated from this just like I have shit
going on. The fact that he has two kids
and he's doing this shit. Two kids.
Yeah. Fuck.
Yeah, and it's interesting to me that he's doing these to other
kids. Like I wonder if there's
anything going on in the home. There wasn't anything reported
and I can't. I mean, he's not going to kill
his kids, I guess. I don't know I would be
reported. On that.
I wouldn't be surprised. No, I wouldn't be surprised
either and also the wife is probably terrified.
Well, and it also sounds like he's doing this to people that
he doesn't know. Oh, not at all.
So there's like this. There's no.
Feeling there, no personal feelings, right?
So there was also cannibalistic acts as we mentioned earlier,
such as consuming the sexual organs several cases that year.
They think that it was tied to its impotence and the arousal
also derived from violence. So that is that's.
This just keeps getting. Crazier.
I know all of that happened in one year.
Again, we're still in the same year here.
So by late 1984, Andre's operations extended to targeting
still vulnerable transients and it the next, so the next one,
the age difference is just so big to me on this one.
She was 44 years old. What?
That's a big difference, dude, because generally he stayed
under like 21. Yeah, 22, right?
And so now we're doubling the age.
We're going from 7 to 44, right? That's that's a wild difference.
Like he has no preference at all.
I do think that he has a preference for children, but it
doesn't really matter that much at the end of the day.
It's just the opportunity of. It is.
He's an opportunistic killer for during this period, the
brutality intensified investigative pressure, though
the Soviet authority's forensic limitations delayed the linkage.
In 1985, activity briefly subsided before resuming with
two murders in August. 18 year old Natalia Pok Pok Listova who
was stabbed 38 times after strangulation.
A woman named Irina, who was 18, and she was stabbed and left
exposed near a bus stop. Oh, he's getting.
Careless. Completely.
He doesn't give two shits anymore.
Yeah, these incidents maintain core patterns, but he started to
get a little cautious in September of 84 because he was
arrested for behaving suspiciously at a bus station.
Thank God. Like what?
But like what? What suspicious thing are you
doing? Is it maybe?
Does he boring people into the woods?
It's that or maybe he has blood on him.
Maybe or like or. He's too close to a kid.
An organ. Making a kid feel uncomfortable.
Yeah, who knows? He's eating an organ.
He's just holding a Dick in his hand, chewing on it.
But again. We're not a hot dog.
We don't have hot dogs here. This is what the Russia.
He avoided suspicion again on the murder charges because his
blood type didn't match the suspect profile.
Weird. Yeah, he was still in prison for
three months on a number of minor outstanding offenses.
So. Okay, so the blood type, so his
actual blood type was type A, which was different to the type
found on the other bodily fluid. That's AB Yeah.
He was a member of a minority group known as non sequiturs,
whose blood type cannot be inferred by anything other than
an actual blood sample. So his blood's tricky.
So it could change. Yeah.
It could test for different things when it's not.
Out when it's actual blood. When it's not inside his body.
No, when it's just not legitimate blood because they
tested the semen and determined what it would be, which I don't
know how that works. That's weird.
But yeah, OK. But the AB wasn't his blood
type. So then they were like, Oh well,
he couldn't have committed these because he's type A.
That is so crazy. The police only had that sample
of semen and not actual blood from the crime scenes.
So he was able to escape that suspicion of murder.
Obviously, today there's more sophisticated DNA techniques
that yeah, that would that wouldn't have happened.
Right, right, right, right. But whatever.
Well, his DNA, they'd be able to be like, we're going to swap
your cheek. Or whatever it is and it's going
to match properly. Juice in this cup or.
Something something in a booger. Lick up something.
Who knows? So he found work as a traveling
buyer for a train company. Don't know what that is.
Which was based in Novo Chekovsk and that pronounced that all the
way wrong. I've missed a few letters but
that's OK. He managed to keep a low profile
during this time until later in 85 where he murdered two women
in separate incidents. So around the same time as those
murders. Burakov, the detective who was
frustrated with the lack of positive progress, engaged the
help of a psychiatrist, Andrei Bukanovsky.
So many Andres. Oh no, his name is Alexander.
I don't know why I said that. Thank.
You, Andrei, is the murder. It is the murder.
OK, Alexander tracks to it for Russian.
Yeah, yeah, it does. Who refined the profile of the
killer? So Bukanovsky described the
serial killer as a necrosadist for someone who achieves sexual
gratification from the suffering and death of others.
He also placed the killer's age between 45 and 50, significantly
older than what 2 had been believed up to that point.
Desperate to catch the killer, the detective even interviewed a
serial killer who was Anatoly Slivko.
He was a pedophile, rapist, necrophiliac and serial killer
active in the Nevanomesque Russia over a period of 20
years. Slivko convict convinced 43
teenage bull boys. Wow.
He convinced 23 bulls. To turn into blades, he
convinced 43 teenage boys to let him, to let him hang them until
they became unconscious so he could molest them before
reviving them himself. And I think.
How do you talk someone into that?
Don't know, don't know do. You want to play a game?
Do you want to play a game? Yeah.
What? It's wild, but that's what he
did and I think. He's like, what are you doing
today? Trying.
To remember the article? Yeah.
Are you busy? Yeah, do.
You like ropes? Do you like not being alive?
No, I cannot. I'm pretty sure I didn't write
it down, but in an article I read, I think eight of eight of
the boys died from this. So not all of them died 43,
Eight out of 43. That's not bad.
I mean, the percentage is in his favor.
It is. They're probably going to live,
but that was He interrogated him shortly before his execution in
an attempt to gain some insight to this elusive serial killer,
coinciding with his attempt to understand the mind of the
killer. Attacks seemed to dry up and the
police suspected that their target might have just stopped
killing, been incarcerated for other crimes, or died.
However, in early 1988, Andre again resumed his killing, the
majority occurring away from the Rostov area this time, and the
victims were no longer taken from local public transport
outlets because the police surveillance of those areas
continued and got heavier. He's smart.
Yeah, he is. Like, I don't know how he
managed to evade police while it was being policed.
Yes, but he did. I'm sure that investigator.
Was fucking pissed. So frustrated.
Because he's doing this for years.
Yeah, I can't imagine doing. It's a project that never ends.
That would stress me the fuck out.
Well. And have having more people die
while you're, you know, you wanna get.
It all the time. You wanna get ahead of it, but.
You can't you. Can't.
You're so yeah. Wow.
Like, and people are dying a lot.
It's not, you know, like almost every day, pretty much.
Every day they're finding a body.
Pretty much. So over the next two years, the
body count increased by a further 19 victims.
Jeez. And it appeared that the killer
was taking increasing risk, focusing primarily on young boys
and often actually killing in public places where the risk of
detection was far higher. God, I need him to get caught.
I know. So now we're pushing into this
time of it's the Gorbachev Glasnost society, which is like
when the policies sought to introduce like market reforms,
increase transparency, transparency, reduce censorship
and all this shit. Like there's gonna be a big
shift in the Soviet in the Soviet Union during this time,
which placed a shit ton of public pressure on the police
forces to actually catch the killer.
Oh, I believe that. So the general police patrols
were heavily stepped up, with Berkov targeting the likely
areas, with undercover police now an attempt to flush out the
killer. Andre still evaded capture
narrowly on a couple of occasions.
But on November 6th of 1990, fresh from killing his final
victim, Svetta Klarsta, his suspicious behavior was noted by
a patrolling policeman at the station nearby, and his details
were taken. His name was linked to a
previous arrest in 84 and then he was now placed under
surveillance. Oh.
So now that can sneak into this, this sounds fun like I would
want to watch this movie. So that was November 6th when he
the fresh from the killing thing.
He was actually arrested on November 20th of 1990 following
more suspicious behavior, but he refused to confess to any of the
killings. At first, Burakov, the
detective, decided to allow the psychiatrist who had prepped the
original profile to talk to Andre under the guise of trying
to understand the mind of a killer from a scientific
context. So now he has some ego, you
know? Of course.
That is brought into this. He was clearly flattered by this
approach, and he opened up to the psychiatrist, providing
extensive details of all of his killings and even leading the
police to the sights of the bodies previously undiscovered.
So he just switched. It up?
Yep. He went from I'm giving you
nothing to like. Oh, you wanna write a book on me
or something like that? Yeah.
Oh, you're interested in? Me, that was very smart of them
to do. He claimed to have taken the
lives of 56 victims, although only 53 of these could be
independently verified. The figure was far in excess of
the 36 cases that the police had initially initially initially
attributed to their serial killer.
Having been declared sane and fit to stand trial.
Andre went to court on April 14th of 1992.
That was some little before I was born.
I was born in September of 92. That is wild it seems like.
I know. This is a while.
Ago, but it also seems like the other day because I feel like I
was born 2 days ago. Anything that happens in our
lifetime. Seems so recent.
Yeah, because time flies. Because we were here when it
happened. In a way, yeah.
Which is fucking nuts. It is really nuts.
Throughout the trial, he was held in an iron cage designed to
keep him apart from the relatives of his many victims.
Well. Thank God.
Because I mean, there were relatives in the prison, but
that's fine. Refer to the media as the quote
maniac. His behavior in court range from
board to manic. Oh, so this was in courtroom
that he kept in the metal box, not in the jail?
That makes sense. Yeah.
I don't know why I didn't link that.
It's OK. It's I'm here.
I got you. I got you.
Thank God, what would I do? College.
What would I do? So the behavior was ranging from
board to manic singing and talking gibberish.
At one point he was even reported to having dropped his
trousers, waving his genitals at the assembled crowd.
He's just doing the helicopter. Want to see something cool?
How's this for distraction? The judge appeared less than
impartial, often over ruling Andre's defense lawyer, and it
was clear that his guilt was a foregone conclusion.
Yeah, the trial lasted until August, so April to August.
That's a long time. A long time.
There's also a lot of victims and I'm sure that.
They have to go through. Their piece?
Each one, every each one deserves their time.
Absolutely. Surprisingly so.
The lasted until August and surprisingly, given the judge
the judge's bias, the verdict was not announced until two
months later, in October 15th of 1992.
So I was born now which is crazy I.
Was three. Wow.
This is because of you. I know him.
That's your dad. So he held his verdict for two
months. Not really sure why but it was
and Andre was found guilty on 52 of the 53 murder charges.
Don't know why only that one. I don't know what happened with
the one. It could have been maybe the one
that happened and someone was sentenced.
To. Maybe they were just like, you
can't claim that one because we've already done that and
that's just going to fuck up our shit, so we don't want to file
that paperwork. Interesting.
Or maybe the one they found that was basically like a skeleton.
Oh yeah, maybe. Maybe, I don't know.
There could have been no DNA evidence to to link it.
Since it was found like 9 months.
Later, I think he said he confessed.
Oh, he's like I did that one. Yeah, OK, so I don't know.
But anyway, he was sentenced to death for each of the murders.
So he's dying 52 times. I wish you.
Know, I know. Wouldn't it be wild just like
boom resuscitate? I think I think we've talked
about this. Before, I think it was our first
episode of honesty like. He should be killed the way that
he killed, you know I. Feel like he would enjoy it.
He might. He might, he might get off on.
It he might. What a.
Sicko, I know he. Jizz in his pants again.
Probably. And then everyone would laugh at
him again and then his pee would burn.
So Andre's appeal centered around the claim that the
psychiatric evaluation which had found him fit to stand trial was
bias. But the process was
unsuccessful. 16 months later he was executed by a shot to the
back of the head behind the right ear on either February
14th or 16th. One of those in 1994.
It's fine. So I was two, You were five.
Yeah. And.
My sister was born. Oh wow, I know how cool it's.
Crazy. It was a family affair.
The psychiatrist who had been instrumental in his capture?
Alexander Bukhonovsky went on to become a celebrated expert on
sexual disorders as well as serial killers.
So there was this one quote that came from Andre that was
renowned. And it was, I'm a mistake of
nature, a mad beast. And I'm like, that's incredibly
profound for you. Well, it's also very true.
It is true, but then if you look at the the psychological
breakdown of what that woman wrote about, you do very much
see the impact of. The nurture.
The nurture aspect, I guess, and and what he was surrounded by,
like all of the famine, you know, being picked on having all
of these disorders. All those traumas.
Yes, those did impact him and did mold him in that kind of way
based off of what she discussed at least.
And she was getting like her master's in clinical psychology.
She probably knows. She I feel like she knows a
thing or. Better than us?
I don't know. She's probably a president.
Really smart. Yeah.
She went to college. She's in Congress.
Yeah. I don't even know if they have
that over there. She is Congress.
She works for Putin. She's Putin's publicist.
Oh, she's. My mom, but because we were
talking about this earlier, before we started recording how
there are serial killers that definitely get molded.
You know, they do. They are very much shaped by
what's around them. Yeah, unfortunately that it
does. We talk about having that innate
innocence, you know, that most people aren't born right off the
bat wanting to kill people. Sure, there are people that are
like that because we hear of of them.
Yeah. But at some point or another, I
think that whether you're nurtured, you know, well or, or
had a poor upbringing, yeah, something triggers in your brain
that you see something and you're like, ooh.
Yes. I'm curious.
Yes. And you go down that.
Switch that gets turned on, yeah, that I don't think would
have with someone who has like a normal, I guess chemistry maybe.
Everyone's brain, I feel like it's different as far as like
chemical levels, yes. So maybe there's something tied
to that. I would assume so, yeah, that's
my guess, yeah. But I know that she was heavily
leaning on how much his upbringing impacted him.
Yeah, because I I I mean, that time was very trying.
This was World War 2 famine bombs going off upon his
birthing. Hungry.
They're very hungry. Pee pee pee pants.
Pee pee pants. And it hurt too.
And then his brain had headaches.
Too much jizz. Quick, quick.
Jizz so fast, so fast. He just, he couldn't, he didn't
have time. He didn't mean it.
This is all an accident. He's NFS.
He's. Like mom, they're making fun of
me. Just gonna kill somebody.
Oh, yeah, Yeah. Hey.
So yeah. So that's not fair that he was
just shot in the back of the head.
It was quick. And why behind the right ear?
I don't know. Why not in the?
Middle. I read that on Murderpedia.
I don't know what bothers. Me needs to be right.
There center it should be, but maybe there's like a higher
level of survival if that happens.
I'm sure they know. Maybe, I don't know.
Russians know how. To they know how to kill.
Take out people. Yeah, I.
Feel. Take us out.
No, we love Russia. We stand with Russia.
I'm just kidding. No, stop kidding.
I'm just kidding. We don't.
We don't, we don't take that out.
Got that cancelled. But that's what a crazy case.
It is. It was just killing after
killing after killing, and it just got bigger and bigger and
bigger and no one knew what to do that.
I'm fucking that detective. He put his foot down.
He was like, there's something going on.
Yeah, good on him, because I feel like if he didn't step up
and do something, this fucker would have kept going.
Oh. Absolutely.
Until his death. Easy.
How old was he when he was? I don't know.
Executed I. Don't know.
So this was in which? So it was in 1994 and he was
born in 36. So I'm gonna do a calculator
math. So he was much older, 6060
something, 61. I don't know 58.
OK, so I was so. Close.
You were really close. Wow, Math.
Numbers, Yeah. Wow that's that is fucked
instead of shooting him in the head though.
They should have. They should have studied his
brain. I really thought we were going
in the same direction. I really did.
Why not take his brain and study it or something They.
Should have. You know.
They studied him out loud, I guess they talked to him.
They did have that psychiatrist. Who?
Yeah. Who went on to be a renowned,
you know. It's like I just.
Yep, he sure did. She psychiatried him.
Yeah. So good cuz she's a
psychiatrist. That's what she did.
Or he did anyway. The him.
The actual psychiatrist that studied him, yeah, back in the
day when he was alive, yeah, yes, that was a man.
That was Alexander and then the woman who did the actual
clinical. Dissertation yes, is a.
Woman is a woman. And is she Russian?
Yes, OK. She was studying at the I think
it's the university, University of Moscow.
OK, feel like I wanna say that's what it is those.
Poor, poor kids. The.
Yeah. Now is there pictures of like
him and. There's pictures of him, but I
didn't. I honestly didn't really look
into pictures, OK all that much. I just saw.
Yeah, I was just interested in in.
First of all, everything. Yeah, all of that.
Do you remember the stuff that I just talked about?
Yeah, I was interested. In that part for the last hour
that I've been talking. Yeah.
Okay. That part was interesting.
But I did see pictures of him. I saw a picture of when he was
like younger and doing committing the murders.
Okay. And then after his arrest.
Okay, well you said in the courtroom they had press.
Did you mention that? Had press in the courtroom.
I know they had. There were people assembled in
there. So I'm so impressed.
Most likely cameras. There were there were pictures
of him. From okay from cool, that's what
I want to see. Yeah, so it's there.
He looks crazy. Yeah, I wanna see that.
So yeah, I mean that's. I guess murdering doesn't.
You don't age well. It does when you murder.
No, I don't think so. Yeah.
I feel like it's probably kind of like drugs or.
Something it's like draining it. Yeah, it has to be draining.
Because he's literally working, I think, yeah.
Well, he was like selling trains or something.
Something, yeah, like, I don't know, like.
Listen to this train. Don't you want to buy it?
Come with me, I have one in the woods.
What a beer. He was.
Nuts. He was nuts.
I'm just surprised about how he's like how he was able to
lure, but he he lured vulnerable people.
Well, how long it went on? It went on for so long, God.
So long and it really tells you how much like the ability to
study forensics is important. Like that technology is so
vital. Thank goodness that we have that
now. I mean, it still can be not
accurate at times 'cause I know they like debunked, like blood
splatter, splatter, whatever and shit like that and like
follicles. I think it's.
Splatter but but wow, that tough for Dylan.
I don't do this. Anymore blood, blood patter,
blood splatter, splatter. Anyways, did I say spatter
college? Anyway, thank you so much for
listening. Yeah, don't, don't do what he
did. Don't do what he did, and we
didn't do what he did. We.
Did not do it, Not at all. So stay safe and remember we
didn't do it.