Welcome to Women Disrupting Tech.
My name is dear Kanupkas, and on this podcast, I give the women
who work in tech the platform they need to inspire and empower
each other. Join me on a journey into the
world of entrepreneurship, funding biases, and role models
to discover the strategies for success in the tech industry.
In other words, how women can disrupt tech.
Are you ready to listen? Hey, welcome back to Women
Disrupting Tech and thank you for tuning in to Episode 126.
My guest today is Yasmina Kababi.
And as you'll learn, Yasmina is an extremely mission driven
woman who's passionate about food, connecting people, and
building something that solves for systemic inequality.
When Yasmina studied climate change and refugee crisis, she
got frustrated because her fellow students cared about one
problem or the other, but almost never about both.
Yasmina saw the link, and she realized that food could connect
it to that insight was the start of her journey as an
entrepreneur and of her company, Fresh Table.
In this episode of Women Disrupting Tech, Yasmina shares
how she uses food to build a company based on permissionless
inclusion. By listening, you'll discover
how she builds a platform that is bigger than herself, why
inclusion is not about identity but about identifying talent,
and what it means when she says that founders need to treat
their minds as a sanctuary. Plus, you'll hear how she uses
her geographical luck to give others access to opportunity and
how you can do that too. Before we start, I want to
highlight an event that embrace health organizers on free
December 2025 at Equals in Amsterdam titled Understanding
Women's Health. As you know, I'm really
passionate about this topic and about the need for everyone to
learn more about how Women's Health works and how it is
different from the health of men.
If you visit this event as a man or a woman, it will help you to
better understand Women's Health and how it impacts energy, mood,
productivity, and overall well-being at every stage of
life. For more information and
tickets, please check out the link in the show notes or search
for Understanding Women's itself in the Lumia app.
With that, we're ready to listen and learn how Yasmina Kababi is
building permissionless inclusion one meal at a time
with fresh table. Please welcome to Whim
disrupting tech Yasmina Kababi. Yasmina Kababi, good morning.
Good to have you. An honor to have you.
Welcome to Women Disrupting Tech.
First question I have is you're the founder of Freshstable and I
read somewhere that that starts with you sitting in a lecture.
Correct. Yeah.
I am the founder of Freshstable, which I started in 2020, so five
years ago while I was still studying international public
administration. And the topics we were
discussing were always about climate change and societal
issues that we can solve. And many of these issues were
discussed and actually inspired me to start my business.
So it was actually student founded.
Yeah, Corporation. At some point.
I was very frustrated about how people were dealing these topics
and it didn't really lead to any solutions.
And I saw different camps existing, so people were really
thinking in boxes and labels how some would really be annoyed and
care about things that involve climate change.
And the same people could not care any less when it came to
refugees, for example, or just basic human rights.
And that really didn't click with me because I was like, both
of those things are super important.
So how can we connect them and make sure that it's just normal
that we care about both of these things?
You should care about people and planet.
And then food became the instant connector between those two.
OK, except for food. What what is the connection
between the two topics? Because I I think, I think I
have a clue, but. Yeah, so food has been part of
my life since forever. I think just growing up, I have
a Moroccan heritage, but I was born and raised in the
Netherlands. Food always plays a really big
cultural role of really connecting people together.
I grew up with three sisters, so there's always some bickering at
home, but whenever my mom would serve the food on the table, it
would be quiet, would all just enjoy the meal.
And that's very symbolic for different opinions and different
causes that are happening around the world.
We can all still connect over simple things because at the end
of the day, we are still human. All of us will still bleed, but
we also are still hungry. So I think that was like the
basics of it. And then after that, one of my
first jobs was in the food sector.
I've been in that sector since I was 15, so I also worked as a
sushi chef for quite some time. And all those combinations have
really inspired me to really link that together.
OK, and but but the link between climate and and refugees.
What? What is that?
It's a very obvious one, actually.
I think people really underestimate how much these two
have to do together. So living in the West, we
consume a lot. And that's just, it's not a
discussion point. We consume a lot and that also
comes from different places. But when we look at refugees, a
large part of them are also climate refugees where we use a
lot of their resources when it comes to all just to produce
plastic, those kind of things. And that also leads to certain
influxes of migration, People are having to leave their homes
because they're flooded, etcetera, etcetera.
So it's really interconnected in that sense, but also in
different ways. When we think about climate
change, you really often only look at it from one perspective
also when we look at sustainability.
But I think if we strip down things and really remove labels,
sustainability has been within us as human beings for the
longest times, and especially in the Global South.
So people that we now come to be refugees really have a lot of
those sustainable practices that are more than normal.
So just a simple explanation. Or for people that are at home,
if you're cooking and you have some leftovers, you
automatically probably would save them for the next day.
Those are sustainable practices or as my grandma used to do, is
saving all those plastic bags under the sink.
She's one of the most sustainable people that I know.
But if I would tell her that she's a sustainable person, she
would look at me like, what does that mean?
Like I I'm not sustainable or turning down the lights or not
showering that long. Those kind of things are all
part of sustainable practices. And I see them being often
performing more in the global South.
So I feel like if we talk about climate change, we also should
involve the influx of people in that and they should go hand in
hand. OK.
But does that then also mean that if we sort of become more
sustainable in the in the West, that we get less influx from
refugees because climate doesn't deteriorate anymore and
therefore people don't have a reason to leave?
No, not at all. I think it's just one of the
links. But I think the the issue at
hand is much bigger than that. There's so many parts of that
and there's different types of refugees, people that flee
politically and common is just one of those reasons.
But I do think, and it's more like in a political sense is
that if we really focus more on our likeliness instead of our
differences, maybe certain influxes wouldn't be named
refugee crisis anymore and we just be people migrating for
better opportunities. And we would actually embrace
this instead of seeing it as something that is societal issue
that we have to deal with. So I'm like really trying to
look at that in, in that sense that if you would care more
about the climate and about people, certain issues would not
exist. And doesn't mean that people are
not moving around because that has been happening since for
centuries. But I think it would be more
focused on what can we learn from each other.
And I think that's also something that we really try to
install in Fresh Table because we work with predominantly
former refugees, but also with different kind of subgroups
where we really focus on what's your talent and how can we
contribute to each other's lives and how can we really make the
world a better place together. So it's not really focusing on
the label. You are a former refugee or you
are this and that. It's just what are your talents
and how can we really stimulate that?
OK. How did you come up with that
model and? Yeah, I there's not some kind of
a genius plan behind it, to be honest.
There's different factors. So maybe to really explain Fresh
Table in short is that we provide business catering for
events and we do that with meals that really impact the world on
a sustainable sense on food accessibility sense and in the
terms of inclusivity of people in the labor market.
So those are the three core values.
And in a short example, that would mean if you have an event
at corporate X, we would take care of the catering because you
take catering from us instead of another catering party, you
actually help people on planet become better.
So that's in short what we do. And how I came up with that is I
really wanted to instill those 3 core values because as I just
explained, I don't believe in just thinking in those boxes.
I really want to interconnect those 3 and make it more normal.
So during my studies, I was really looking at these topics
from policy level, but it's just one lens.
But at the same time, I did a lot of volunteer work.
So as part of Ms. International, for example, I travelled a lot
to perform decision volunteer work abroad.
And that really brought me into more the practical perspective
and actually see what these policies mean and why they would
or would not work. And that's where I did some
volunteer work in a local spot where we would cook every week
with former refugees. And I remember one time asking
them, do you do you like doing this?
And I said, yeah, I'm really grateful to some of what I
asked, do you like doing this? And then I got back.
Well, actually I feel useless in society cause I've been in the
Nevis for more than six years. But I'm actually bank director,
I'm an engineer. I have knowledge of tech, for
example. And I hear like all these
different stories and people that have high degrees and
masters, but they're not able to perform their work in the
Netherlands just because your diploma is not accredited
according Western standards. And that really struck something
to me. So what I did was researching
them back on policy level. Is there something that's
against the law of allowing me to hire people based on the
degrees that they obtain in their own country?
And I couldn't find anything. And I thought then what the
heck, why not? Why not start a business that
would actually allow people to have their work here and assist
them in customizing to the Dutch standards of that.
So if somebody, for example, we had an bookkeeper from Egypt
that came here and had the hardest time searching for a
job, and then we offer him an apprenticeship slash internship
where we actually can assist him with customizing to the Dutch
taxiles, for example. But he's still performing his
work and knowledge. So it's an equal opportunity for
both parties to really exchange information.
And to be honest, we actually gained so much more from them
and we learned so much more from them than we could ever offer
them. So that was really where it came
from. And personally, that's just my
story. I really hate sitting in
frustration. I feel like it's a waste of
time. I, I get to be frustrated once
and then you have to take action.
So either you shut up about it or you take action.
That's really how that business came to life.
And I was thinking about this group of people that I really
wanted to see be advanced more, not thinking of the sense of
helping others because I feel like self efficacy and really
empowering people, that's the key to the future.
And not having that mindset or of unhelping others because it
also puts yourself in the ego sense at a front as a founder.
And I'd rather have a team where people believe in their own
leadership skills and they can grow.
So that's really the basics behind from my perspective.
Why is that important to you? To not not be helping, but
giving. Yeah, because I've experienced
the part where you're helping, but what's actually happening is
that you are also feeling your ego, which is it's common to
human sense like it happens to everyone.
Short examples that I lived in Brazil for a while when I did a
lot of volunteer work with kids that were living in favela.
So we're predominantly focusing on preventing child prostitution
and, and those kind of things. But what I could sense is
whenever I went away or went back home, some things would
stop or the kids would miss you and something would not advance.
And I think that's a really humbling experience to know that
some kind of aid and advancement of people's lives should not be
dependent on your presence. And I think if you really want
to create an impact as a leader, a good leader in my terms is
measured by the amount of leaders that you create.
So Fast forward like 10 years later, now we also have a
foundation with Fresh Stable and we focus more on really
empowering those kids in starting their own social
enterprises, starting their own business.
And I think that's really a difference because I also tell
people and even like within the organization when it comes to
former refugees, my goal and my dream is that you do not need me
or us to advance and that you will become a leader of the
future. And I think if you teach a man
how to fish, that's like the basic saying.
I think that's right. It's really important to me on a
leadership sense. And personal wise, I am really
mission oriented. So when I turned 19, before that
I was studying international business.
I was good at it, but I didn't like it and it was because I was
still missing something. We're always counting the
profits and the Net margin, whatever.
And I was always wondering, OK, but what's happened to the
people? How are they treated and what
can we do for the planet? And at some point, I think
teachers were really tired of it 'cause we're, we have 600 more
students, we're just counting the profit here.
But for me, it became really important to really think beyond
profit. What's what's going on there?
So it's really the mission behind it.
And I think combining those two, I really care about creating the
next generation of leaders and empowering people that have been
minoritized. So they're not minorities in my
eyes, but they've been minoritized by media standards,
people's opinions. So yeah, that's a very long
answer. I don't know, I, I, I there's a
couple of Nuggets that I want to pick up on.
One is what influence did your upbringing have because you have
a special philosophy about geographic, geographical look.
Can you explain that and then build on that to to explain a
bit how you were raised and how that plays into what you do
right now of? Course, so I was raised in a
very loving home that was always open and caring for others and
it would be weird if there's not somebody new sitting at the
table, for example so I was always bringing somebody home
that I just met at the bus stop. But that's also something that
my mom installed in US. But also I think even before
that, my grandparents were always welcoming people, whole
families that were staying with them for weeks.
And I think they made it so normal that I was never
questioning why that was happening.
It's just there's an open door. And it got stuck to me that we
all just have geographical luck in this world.
We are lucky that we're born here and that's somewhere else
in a war-torn country. You just have that luck of being
born in some place that offers you more opportunities.
And I think it's important in life to not only use that dog,
but also appreciate it and give on to others that are not that
blessed with that luck. And I think really centralizing
that in in life is is really important to me.
And it's, it just became something that's really
completely normal in my book to open your doors and welcome
somebody at your table, even figuratively, but also when it
comes down to your business, giving more opportunities to
people that are often not seen and really sharing that luck
that I was blessed to have. And I would not describe myself
as a minority, but I am a woman, I'm a woman of colour, I am
Muslim. And even despite those things, I
still have my privileges as well because I studied in the West, I
have my master's degree and I am an entrepreneur.
So maybe there's different fields that I still can also
pass that luck on on people that may not have that same luck.
Yeah, so you do death. Why don't altarsh?
Here's a good question. Yeah, it depends.
I think it's not a way of not wanting to do that because what
we realize that a lot of people want to do good.
I feel like people inherently, that's always the question,
right? Like the goose in the egg.
Like are people good from the essence or does everybody have
some bad in them? I think people in general really
want to do something good. They often just don't know how
and what you can really see with Fresh Table, for example, we
really believe in making our customers the hero on this
mission. Fresh Table is just a
facilitator of that story. We always see ourselves as the
platform. We never want to be seen as the
hero. But also me as a founder, I
don't want to be centralized like that.
We are just a platform that really helps you create an
impact. So we facilitate, for example,
for corporates like a Bank X for example, that wants to hold an
event for them to choose for us instead of their standard
caterer means they're choosing impact because often they have
these long term contracts with people for like 10 years.
And then we've seen a lot of times that they would switch out
just to go with us because we create an impact.
So it's an active choice to really make a difference.
So in that sense, you want to facilitate that.
And a really good example of that is we have a share meal
campaign. It's been running since the
first year and that was actually founded in because I started
Fresh Table a week before COVID, which is perfect timing as a
social enterprise in the food sector and completely bootstrap.
So no regrets. But a good lesson there is that
we had a lot of products still laying there, packaging and
people, but there were no orders coming in because of the
regulations. So restaurants were opening,
then our sales went down and then so it went like that the
whole time. And then I thought, OK, let's
see what we can actually do. But it was still a lot of
elderly people that are living very confined.
So what can we do to contribute to them?
And had a lot of friends abroad and a lot of support.
And they actually said, what can we not donate something?
And that really didn't feel that good to me because I thought,
how can I really incorporate this into the business?
And that's how share a Meal was born.
So that means that you can buy, for example, hamburger and
instead of 1, you buy 2. One goes to you and the other
one goes to somebody in need. And because we have the skills,
the resources and the knowledge locally, so we know exactly
because of our experience, We work a lot with the homeless
shelter, but also with the refugee center, some women
asylum seeker center. So there's really different
networkings that we have built up in the past years that people
might feel more anxious to get into.
So we use that skill and we use all that knowledge to facilitate
for others to do good. Because we really realized from
a lot of conversations that I've personally with a lot of people
is I really want to do something similar, but I just don't know
how. So we try to be an example of
how you can really make it easy to help another person.
So that year we started with around 300 meals that were
donated and Fast forward to 2025 for over 14,000 meals and it's
still counting and it's we're just facilitating that.
We're not the ones that are responsible for all this
goodness that it's creating. It's actually the customers
themselves. And I think it's really
important in life to understand the role of being a bridge and
facilitating doing good for others.
And I think that's, yeah, the gist in it.
Yeah, and that's and that's what clearly you're doing.
So there's another thing about the the fresh table business
model that I was wondering about you.
You gave the example of the Egyptian bookkeeper.
So this guy is not this guy knows bookkeeping.
That's I don't think general booking keeping practices are
that different from Egypt to to the Netherlands, except for tax
of course. But how do you work in terms of
accreditation? Because that's the underlying
issue that he has, that his accreditation doesn't fit our
accreditation. How do you deal with that?
And how do you sit? On the back of that, how do you
put people on on a journey on on the path to getting locally here
fully accredited? Yeah, that's a good question.
So it's twofold when Fresh Table actually started the Fresh
Academy. And so we have different
apprenticeships and internships starting from 8 weeks and it's
an equally yoked relationship. So we review each other.
So for example, another person, we had an IT guy from Syria who
actually did his masters there and he's still studying here to
regain different degrees in IT, but he does our website for
example, or anything in the back end.
And importing that role is that we evaluate each other on an
equal level because accreditation doesn't only come
from us or the system and also comes from just one person that
believes in that person. We also have a lot of people
that actually did an apprenticeship with us and then
later on started working somewhere else without having
that Dutch degree. But because there was 1 Dutch
company such as Fresh Table that actually believes in them, it
also gives them more backing. So not all of them get an
accreditation. What we try to do is really help
them with the fresh Academy that's still evolving.
We're working on new programs where you can actually get,
yeah, some extra certifications that can help in the Dutch
labour market. But at the same time, we also
believe in the power of having somebody behind you within the
nether that has a certain influence.
We have a really large network as yeah, I delivered to the in
the B2B sector. So a lot of those corporates are
our clients. So if somebody's looking for a
job, we are the first referee that you could put down because
they were part of that. So the accreditation works
twofold. So we have it within the Academy
to a certain degree, but also us backing the people that have
worked with us. And important to notice in that
is that there is a lot of organizations in the Netherlands
that work with refugees in terms of offering them a working
experience here. For us, the main goal is not to
actually place them somewhere else.
That's just a side effect of it. But I'd rather see people
starting with us, for example, in those eight weeks, actually
climb on that career ladder in the same organization so they
can actually become a leader. Because I think that is still a
main issue if I look at the Dutch landscape in this matter.
So we have a lot of companies that provide opportunities for
refugees, but it just ends with hiring them.
And then we can mark them as a check.
OK, so we have a lot of people that have a refugee background
check, but we're not really looking at what happens to them.
Do they advance on their career ladder?
And the same goes for back in the days, just hiring women.
So we hired a lot of women, but why are they still doing?
Are they in the boardroom or are they still in the productive
area? And I think that's really
important when we talk about diversity and inclusivity and
really the difference between those two.
So diversity is just hiring them and making sure they have a job
and inclusivity is really seeing that they are included in
growing their role within the company and they are actually
feel valued. So those two things are the most
important in that and us back in them I think is the most
important accreditation they could have.
Do you see a shift in that from diversity to inclusion in the
employers? You work with.
Yeah, I do. But I also believe that I
personally live in a certain bubble.
Of course, we are a social enterprise.
So I don't know if my opinion on that would be so unbiased
because we are surrounded with companies.
Most of our clients, for example, they come to US 70%.
It's because of the impact that we make, but also on the other
side, 30% just comes to us because they know of the quality
of the food and things that we serve and then they stay for the
impact. So the story is always twofolded
of how we attract certain customers.
Some come for the story in it and stay for the food.
Some come for the food and they stay for the story.
So I do see a slight change in that, but not enough yet.
I hope that we can really advance that and really start
talking with people rather than just about them.
Yeah, what What is the more the broader societal change that you
want, the impact that you want to make?
My dream vision is that we don't even need terms like diversity,
inclusion, sustainability. We don't need different
departments for that and set them up because it would become
normal. And that is my dream vision in a
nutshell. And it's also why when I founded
Fresh Table, I instilled them in my core values because I want
them to be a no brainer. There's no decision that we make
business wise. We had a lot of talks with
potential investors that reached out to us, but all of these
decisions would always come into the three pillars of
inclusivity, sustainability and food accessibility.
If it doesn't fit one of those, it should go out.
And my dream vision is that we create more startups and
hopefully more corporations that see these things as non
brainers. And it would actually be weird
for you to not do something with exhibity or diversity or
sustainability rather than being, And again, I'm really
grateful for that, but rather than being super acknowledged
for everything that you do in that sense.
Yeah, so, so I was wondering, I think you're bootstrapped,
right? Yeah.
Correct so far on purpose or you just didn't meet right?
It was definitely on purpose, maybe a little ego too know what
I mean? I just also wanted to prove that
it is possible. It is possible.
I started as a student, I was full time studying.
I was also working in the office and then starting my business at
the same time doing a lot of volunteer work.
I wanted to really show the world and also show people that
it is possible. It's not some kind of idealistic
thinking. We can actually make a profit
and make the planet better because I still make a profit
and I don't want to be seen. That's also why we started the
foundation. I want to be seen as just some
kind of charity 'cause we are commercial business, we have a
business model that sells things and I also wanted to show that
you can do this independently. It actually has it is
advantages. We have our own customers, it's
growing, we may break even and even like surviving that during
COVID also says a lot. And for me, looking back now, I
think five years later, now we're open to talks with
investors or possible subsidiaries from the government
and the tables have actually turned.
So it's really nice to set those tables because they're actually
reaching out to us. So they're like, how can we help
you? And then I asked, well, give me
a presentation, show me what you can do for us because it's not
the other way around. I'm not going there empty handed
and asking them and really having to prove what we've done
because we've actually proven that we've we've been existing
for five years due to one of the most tougher times for
businesses and having Bootstrap that also shows that we are
commercial viable organization. It's not something that we're
just believing that does good and it still has to be proven.
We actually have a model that works, and I think that was
really what I wanted to prove with bootstrapping.
That and also give an example to other entrepreneurs, whether it
be women or just people that are interested in creating an
impact. It is possible if you believe in
it. I wouldn't per SE say that
everybody has to bootstrap it. I also really believe in yeah
funding at some point, but that was just the promise that I made
to myself. OK, let's go first to the you
don't want to call a charity. I'm going to just call a charity
for for the moment you have a foundation that are funded by
the business that you run, right?
So how does that ultimately then also pay into your vision to?
Have no that part of the foundation.
You can definitely curl a charity.
That's why we really have those two entities.
Yeah. Please, please, please describe
first what they do. So we only have the fresh table
foundation and that's the one that we have next to fresh
tables. Our fresh table is a commercial
part and then the fresh table foundation.
Basically, there's not a really enlightening story behind.
It's just because we had with share, we made so many numbers
that we never expected. Our accountant at some point
said good story, but start doing that on a different account.
This doesn't belong to the commercial use.
So that's where we started the foundation.
And then the second part is where I just mentioned about
really my own vision for leadership and self efficacy.
So that's why the Fresh stable foundation also is investing in
that. We really believe in investing
in the next generation of impact creators and I think it's also
our responsibility. I, I just turned 30, I'm not
that old yet, but also not that young.
And I think we should really think about the next generation
of the ones that are creating an impact.
So that's why with Fresh Table foundation focuses on food
accessibility at 1 and that's where a percentage of Fresh
Table comes in as a donation. It's always 30% of the profit at
least. And I did that.
I really incorporate that in the model because now it really
depends on how many people you can help by the commercial
success that you make. And I really wanted to make this
and it's just, I think it's just a personal vision as well on
that. I really wanted to make it the
end goal to really help other people.
That's the end goal of it all. And yes, we make money, yes, we
make profit in the meantime. But the end goal is that the
foundation should not just be running on donations externally,
but also from the business because those two should go up
hand in hand. So the more commercial success
you make, the more you can help other people.
And that we would never like turn the other one down.
And that should also be leveled. So that's the reason behind it.
OK, cool. So how do customers and mentors
keep you on the right path to getting to the to execute on the
vision? That's a good question.
I think in mentors I I learned a lot from gaining feedback, but
also accepting different perspectives and and visions.
And most important is that just me as a founder, I also learned
a lot and being open to being wrong sometimes and really
challenging your own perspectives because we are in
this social domain that has been called very woke in in media,
for example, people expect for you to be little thought leader,
but you're not and often you are wrong.
So also always challenging my own perspectives.
And mentors can take formal different forms.
So the employees that work at fresh table are also my mentors
in a sense and the people that we try to help with the
foundation. I think it's like in that they
keep you in check and I think it's important to have people
around you that also let you know when you're wrong or when
you're thinking needs to be challenged.
Because whenever you always have yay Sayers next to you, you're
not in the right environment. You also need people that are
challenging your views. So I think in that sense, and
with their customers as well, they often bring us to new
perspectives. They have really creative ideas
of what they want and that challenges us to think outside
the box because of our customers.
We constantly grow and we came up, for example, with an impact
station that really allows for the residual waste of food to be
brought down to 6%. So that means that everything
that we have leftover, we either compost it in the food garden so
new food can be grown, or we actually donate the parts that
are untouched and hygienically conserved to the homeless
shelter, for example. And this is one of the ideas
that came up out of the question from a customer.
So we learn by doing together. And that's why I see Fresh Table
as a platform, as an accelerator instead of a leader in
something, because we learn from each other and it's really
equally yoked. And we just want to be a partner
for people to accomplish their mission on Earth.
Yeah. So how do you create a safe
space for people to to give you feedback, especially for
employees? Where for for for, especially
with an immigrant background? Yeah, that's a good.
Question quite vulnerable base to to me I.
Yeah, I think I, I personally visit a lot in leadership,
specifically inclusive leadership.
It's also what I did my masters in, in leadership and change
management and my own development.
And I think it's really important to recognize what kind
of type of leader you want to be.
So I'm a strong believer in servant leadership and really
and being also more coaching in that sense, but also as a
leader, humbling yourself down a bit to give somebody more space
to talk about what their their feelings and what they're on
about. And also realizing that whenever
you work with a Sergeant target group, there's more to come with
that area. So it's never just business and
private is strictly a part. If you work with people with a
refugee background, you also have to take into account mental
health, family issues, developments in their home
country that can also affect their productivity at work.
So those kind of things are really important for you as a
leader to invest in and to read on about.
And I think I constantly want to challenge myself.
I'm not saying that I'm always perfect in that this will
establish a relationship where there's more understanding for
the other side as well. And a clear example of that, for
example, is when people start working with us, they get a
personal development plan. And in that personal development
plan, we constantly review every two months of what your personal
growth goals are. It's not just I want to acquire
that and that hard skill, but also I want to grow as a person
that's more empathic. I want to let go of my stress at
work. I want to be this and that, and
we review each other, as I said, equally, so they get the
opportunity to also review me and my skills as a leader so I
can constantly develop in becoming a better leader for
them. Because we can read all the
books, we can gain all the masters.
But in practice, you have to be open to learning from the people
that you want to be a leader to. So I think that's, yeah, the
essence in it, but it's also, I think, more of a character
development. As we grow older, we come to
learn that we're not always right and we shouldn't be.
And yeah, creating that safe space starts with being that
safe space for yourself first. So being an open leader to
yourself and having that own personal growth, development
before you can also be able to become that safe space for
another person. Yeah.
So how do you build that safe space then for yourself?
How, how did that process start to to grow personally?
It was a hard journey. It's a hard journey.
I'm going to be honest. It really starts with being a
reflection to yourself, being able to look in the mirror, but
not always just look at the negative things that you could
improve on. I think a lot of entrepreneurs,
especially just in the general domain, not specifically social,
we're very hard on ourselves. And especially when I look at
women, it's always something that we can be better at instead
of focusing on what we're already doing good.
So read a safe space. I also try to look at, OK, what
are my qualities, what are my skills, and what can I invest
in? And I think also being able to
have open conversations with people from different
backgrounds, with different mindsets, whether that be
ethical background, political or social class, for example.
So I think that was really important to me to have those
conversations and also surround yourself with people that can
provide different perspectives. So when I started my business, I
didn't find any mentor or anything that I could look up to
or ask questions. And I find that really hard at
the beginning. So I was one of the first
entrepreneurs in the family, for example, my my surroundings were
not with entrepreneurs. I was studying and everybody
else is just focusing on being a student and if there were any
entrepreneurs, they were always in the business department of
university, never in societal part of the sciences.
But that never really let me be back down.
I thought if there's not a mentor around me, maybe I should
start creating and being one myself because you attract what
you want to have. So I think with that mindset, I
was just growing and learning at the same time.
But also allow myself to feel the fuck ups.
If it doesn't work out, just accept it.
That's also part of the journey, really write things down.
I journaled a lot, so it's really fun to read.
Back in at the start of 2020, what I was worried about and
then looking back now and where we are now, I'm thinking, God,
but were you worried about it? Doesn't make any sense.
So out of out of curiosity, what were you worried about?
This is a good question. I'm definitely worried about
COVID, worried if I could talk about my studies with the
business, if I wasn't being too idealistic, if this would work
or not. At the end of the day, it all
went well and at the beginning I started my concert as AB2C
concert. So the goal was to have some
healthy, delicious, nutritious meal prep kind of service 2 * a
week. Due to sustainability reasons
and not being able to scale that up, we eventually went thanks to
the demand of the customer to the B2B side which allowed us to
create more impact. But also I would have.
I from the beginning, I swore down I'm never doing events.
I'm never doing anything in the business area.
It's too much. You want to create an impact on
people locally. And just looking back at that,
it's just funny. Like sometimes it's very
hilarious to see how you were thinking in closed boxes and
just saying never and I'm not doing that and that.
And yeah, seeing how you grow as a person also reflects some of
the decisions that you've been able to make.
Did you find a mentor, by the way?
I felt multiple. Yeah, actually I think countless
now. I think I the term mentor, there
are some that obviously advertise themselves as mentors,
but there's also some people in my life that are mentors to me
that they are not aware of. So if I would count them out of
my head I would say at least 12. That's that's a lot, but what
what to you qualifies as a mentor then?
It's a good question. I think a mentor really
stimulates you to see your own potential.
And really I think that's also different with the coach because
sometimes people want to be leaders, but they are already
chewing down what you need to do and where you need to go.
I think a mentor is really, I always give the example of the
Disney movie of Kung Fu Panda. So there is a Shifu, the master,
and he's really like giving his all sometimes very vague stories
and metaphors, but they're there to lead you and give you
examples. And then they really believe in
the good potential in you and try to bring that out of you.
And I think a good mentor is helping you find yourself and
find your own potential and really helping you like take
away the clouds within your thoughts if you can put in that.
And that's what's what's a good mentor is to me.
Yeah, so, so really give you guidance but not tell you how to
do things. Yeah, and really help you see
Claire like clearly, I think that's more of a most of a
thing. I want to shift to the mindset
part because that is one thing that truly I really admire about
you. We had a panel discussion where
you said something really powerful, which is that you
treat your mind like a sanctuary.
What? What does that mean?
So treating your mind in sanctuary, you can also compare
it to a temple. Yeah, you are kind of the
security person in the doors of your mind, and I think it's
really important to protect whatever goes on in there.
We often do not have an influence on people's actions or
things that are happening in the world, but we do have an
influence on what's happening inside of here.
So treating your mind as a sanctuary is as treating it as a
business. So you are the CEO of your mind.
You get to hire people, you get to fire them, you get to demote
them or promote them. You are in charge of what's
happening there and I think it's really important to protect that
with everything that you have. I learned that at quite a young
age. I think if there's a lot of
chaos happening around you, but also in the world or business
wise, you have to have, that's also the example, the ones you
give with the safe space, you have to have a safe space within
yourself. And if your mind is constantly
cluttered with things and as everything's coming inside of
there, every negative opinion is sitting there and every update
on the news is also in there and it's not filtered, you are not
being that safe space for yourself.
So first of all, start really decluttering that space and
having a kind of filter of anything that you let inside.
And I want to think of things in an onion ring.
So things in my life, I place them on different levels and you
peel them down like an onion. And not everything should get
into the core of the center of your mind.
And treating that as a sanctuary really allows yourself to give a
sort of clearance of what gets into your mind and what gets to
go out. OK, so so how do you do that in
terms of because you want certain inputs to end up in that
core, especially when you're talking to mentors and the
likes, but you also want to keep a bit of, yeah, let's say
negative influence out, like the guy across the pond doing
something incredibly stupid or Israel not doing what they're
supposed to do in Gaza. How do you protect yourself from
that while still being able to have that conversation with your
employees? Because you told me part of the
safe space you want to create is also to to be informed enough to
have a thoughtful conversation with with people about their
circumstances. How?
How do you balance that? Yeah, it's a good question.
It's never a linear line. So I'm still learning, of
course, and some days it goes better than the other ones.
But in general, I would say the art of letting go because
negative thoughts and negative things are still happening in
the world and things still happen to yourself and it's
unrealistic to think that they're never happening, not
entering your mind. But the most important thing is
how are you going to filter it? So what would make a decision?
Like how would you make a decision of what gets to staying
what not? And what I think is, of course,
that mindset of not wanting to sit in frustration is something
comes into your mind, OK, what can I do?
Take tangible actions. And we're just talking about
things, for example, across the pond.
So we got a message in the last few days of Ramadan of, hey, we
want to host the whole Iftar in lights of Gaza on the Dam Square
in Amsterdam. And it was only 12 hours ahead
of time. And can you guys provide food
for within 670 people? And I said, sure, why not?
Because I learned that all that frustration has blown up in my
head that needs to be let out into tangible actions.
So this is a really big example of doing something more in the
charity line, but it could also be toned down to something that
comes into your mind that's negative and writing down on
journal or just having a conversation with a good friend
about it. It's just that you have to deal
with those negative thoughts and then being able to not forget,
but at least forgive the things that are surrounding that and
then place it into a certain area in your head.
It should never consume you twice because something that
that's negative that happened to you.
We talk about not outside influences of politics,
etcetera, but just in general in life.
For example, something somebody did something wrong to you.
When it comes to your business, it's the art of being able to
sit in that feeling, accept it, acknowledge it, but also being
able to take a certain action to it and then really let it go.
So I think it's just the art of letting go really takes a lot of
practice. It's not always going as well as
people think. It may be in my on my end, but
it's something that I really learned practice because it
gives me a lot of sanity. Also my personal life.
I'm I'm really personal. It's all about forgiveness and a
lot of people mistake that as seeing well, you're a pushover.
Everybody gets to just do and and you're forgiving them.
Forgiveness does not come with axis and sometimes you can
forgive but remove the axis. Forgiveness is to protect that
sanctuary in your mind. Because why would I experience
the same negative feeling twice? First when it happened to me in
person and then I'm replaying that whole scenario by being mad
in my head. I'm not giving nobody, no person
that much power over my own mind.
And I think that's really the most important thing to really
develop yourself, but also come to a terms where you did not do
all that work on your own personal growth to then just let
somebody else room that. So protect whatever is in here
because that's the one thing that you control.
Yeah, you have. Besides the journaling, do you
have specific routines to or to to to keep yourself sane?
Yeah, sometimes I'm a little bit insane, so it doesn't always
work. That's just a disclaimer.
Definitely adrenaline. Of course, I walk a lot, so I
could easily walk for three hours.
I'll put on some headphones. Sometimes a podcast is running,
sometimes nothing is running, and I just empty out my mind and
just walk in nature. And what I'd really like to do
is to tone down everything really simple.
I would walk and just sit with cows and sheep and I would love
that because nature always brings you down to the basic
essence of human beings and there's no LinkedIn post or no
financial forecast. I can then disrupt me.
It's something that's really simple 'cause you sit within the
biological basics of yourself and next to that also talking,
talking to the right people that have different perspectives that
that might not be in your sector at all.
So really good friends and mentors that may not even be
entrepreneurs, but they give you really different perspective on
how to deal with things. So also surround yourself with
people that have different opinions on that.
That really helps. And besides that, I am also
Muslim, so I pray five times a day and that really allows me to
have a reset button five times a day that I don't get to decide
because these are set prayer times.
So they actually like sound like a buzzer, like the alarm that we
hear every 1st of the month in the Netherlands, but then I hear
it five times a day and I'm obliged to put down my work and
every negative thought that I have and just disconnect
completely. There is no phone involved,
there's nothing involved. And I think that also really
helps me with structuring those thoughts specifically and really
find a way to really put everything to place.
Yeah, that's that's a really powerful way to to just cut off
any thought process, anything that is going on.
Yeah. And for people that maybe not
religious, I also really recommend having certain
meditation times that you just place for example at 1:00 PM and
5:00 PM, you always check in on those moments.
Everything has to accommodate to that schedule of you and not you
accommodating to the schedule of everything.
And I think that's the most important thing that that we
really centerize also having those little pause moments
during a day and not just during life.
Because what we see now is we work all year and then we're
lucky to get a vacation, but also find those Sincery moments
every day because tomorrow's not promised.
And if you always live in the future, And that's really, I
think one of the culprits of being a, a founder or
entrepreneur. We're always thinking about, OK,
ahead of the future, ahead of the time.
That's when I get to rest, when I reach that and that mountain.
But it's also the art of being in the now and really enjoying
life now and also appreciating that you are allowed to work
hard where you're also allowed to really rest even harder.
And rest is not some kind of reward that we have to achieve
after we climb that mountaintop. Rest is something that you
deserve right now that you need. It's not some kind of bonus that
you need to earn. And I think that's really
something important, especially since well, apologize is still
called women disrupting tech, especially when we talk about
women specifically, I see a lot of women tend to reward
themselves with something after they would go through
everything. So it's really, it's sometimes
it really is weird to me to place some kind of rewardment
after suffering and it should not be linked to that.
You deserve to rest and rest is one of your basic needs in terms
of you getting some fuel and oil to then grow again.
And it shouldn't be something that's seen as a reward because
they didn't get burned out and you don't know what happened and
all of that. So, and it goes for men as well,
but I think I, I couldn't really see this tendency in women even
more. Yeah, I was about to say that
this is this is especially the rest part is valid for men.
Mutual friend of ours, he actually has a buzzer at 12:00
every day. Yeah, exactly.
Where he said basically giving him him a prompt like how are
you doing? Or something along those lines.
Which is, I think, a really powerful thing that I've started
to implement for myself, not at 12, but at 1:00, but.
And how's that going for you? It's interesting because it
actually does stop me in my tracks.
So I can be sometimes like really annoying because I'm
working on something. I'm starting to work around it.
So in a sense like build a little routine that for
instance, I have lunch just prior to that.
So it's sort of comes at a natural break.
It doesn't really disturb my my productivity that much.
But on the other hand, I think it's, even if it does stop deep
work, I think it's really powerful because it just takes
you up to the surface again. It gives your head a sort of
rest like, Oh yeah, I need to do something different.
And I don't walk that much as you do.
I do walk a lot. I make sure I get my 10,000
steps a day, either a running order.
And does it help you clear your mind or?
Oh, the running and and working out.
Oh yeah, absolutely. There's there's one workout that
I do on a Tuesday evening when I come back from that I'm
physically exhausted and mentally totally clear.
Very recognizable, yeah. It's it's.
I have the same with the boxing. So I've been kickboxing and Thai
boxing since I was 15. And that for me is really my
outlet as well. So I, I did a Thai box camp, for
example, last year in Thailand. It really resets your mind
'cause you're not able to think. If you're thinking, I'm always
making the wrong moves and then you get hit in your face and
then it's done. So it's actually you have to
protect yourself by not thinking and that's really, you're forced
to really just be in the moment and I love that.
And actually just what you explained as well by having that
timer set for me, that's what the prayer times.
It's just I started to really plan my appointments around it
and really centering and actually in in the essence
you're telling yourself, I'm centering myself and my pause
moments above anything else. And I think that's really
powerful move to make as a person in general.
But it's specifically for founders because we can go
relentlessly long. We can start at 8:00 AM and then
never finish basically. So I think it's really good that
there's something that's holding us accountable to also take a
break and just be in the moment and not always go Fast forward
to the future. And so I think it's really
profound what you just said. Yeah.
So what would you say to women who really still feel like, OK,
we can take a break if we deserve it and we can go to
sleep if we deserve it. If IE if we finished our work,
which I don't think it's ever finished, especially not for
founders, but also for for people in in corporate life.
Actually, for once, I don't have a long answers.
Just rest is not a reward. It's right and that's it.
I think really changing your mindset about what rest means to
you and why do you feel that you have to earn that part.
I think it's really in a having to look back into yourself and
how you're why and what you've been through in life.
I think it'll always come. It stems from somewhere that you
feel the need to prove your worth before you're able to
rest, to get a reward. So really look inwards to why
you're thinking like that and try to really embrace yourself.
And I think it also comes down to a little bit of more self
love and self-care because often not only women, I see a lot of
men doing that too. We wake up and we run out of the
door and the first thing we're doing is working on something
for somebody else. But I always love a slow
morning. I get up even if I'm not hungry.
There is a whole breakfast that I'm making and I'm taking my
morning walk. I think it's really important.
Those little things really reflect.
I can really tell when I'm talking to a person by the
little routines that they make in which involves themselves,
how much they care for themselves.
So and it's not something that I could place as somebody being a
negative or a positive person, but just in a sense getting up
in the morning and really doing something for yourself first
before you turn down, like turn on that laptop for a lot of
people like 5:00 AM club, it's waking up and meditating first.
It's really centralizing what actually matters.
And at the end of the day, we can be the biggest founders.
We can create, can create the most impact, but without you
being the same person, it does not matter.
It does not matter at all. So I think really prioritizing
yourself and stop seeing restless reward, but it's right,
I think that's really the way to advance things.
Sounds like a great place to move to.
My final question. So we've been talking about
impact a lot about, yeah, basically keeping your mind
sane. And so I was wondering how men
can contribute to society where we don't look at sustainability
and diversity and inclusion as a sort of add on.
How do How? Do we make it just a no brainer?
How can men contribute to that world?
Yeah, it's a good question. I think acknowledging the
positions that they hold and it's similar to that geographic
block that I just explained. There's also maybe a gender luck
that maybe you're born into the more dominant role that's more
controlling in the system. So really acknowledging that
position that you have that might be a privilege and using
it into your advantage. So when it comes to create an
impact, whether it be sustainability, there's a lot of
voices. I'm, I've been on a lot of
platforms and I do a lot of keynote speaking where I would
be the only woman or I would be the only younger woman and then
I would also be the only person of color.
So really acknowledging that. And I've had a few talks where
it would be with mostly predominantly white heterosexual
men next to me. But often than not, I would find
people actually there, they were using their position and said,
well, I had this story. There was a there was a question
about diversity and they said, well, this is my opinion, but
I'd rather give this stage to somebody that has experienced
it. So I think it's really
acknowledging your position and the luck that you haven't shared
in that platform. I wouldn't say toning down
yourself because I think it's a journey that we make together
and it would not make any sense because the world really
consists out of men and women and anything in between and
every race in between that. So yeah, I think my advice would
be to acknowledge that role, see the kind of luck that you have
and how you could be able to share that with other people and
how you can use your privileges to advance the journey and
creating more impact on the sustainable side.
But also when it comes more to diversity and inclusion.
And being able to recognize when you're sitting at a table where
you might not even have the most knowledge and maybe there's a
woman or somebody of color that is more crip to talk about that
topic. And then realizing, well, maybe
I'm just sitting here because. I really fit the standard quota
of being the seven check mark as your son.
I like said. So really being, I think the
gist of it that I'm trying to say is really recognizing that
things that may have come easily, I would not say easily
because I think still men work hard, even like if you're
predominantly white and and straight people work for what
they get. But realizing that a lot of
these things that you get to achieve are not a standard for a
majority of people. So really realizing that those
opportunities that you get, and I think that's also a reflection
moment to really sit in the moment and think, whoa, I'm
invited again to speak on a stage.
But realizing that most of the time women and pre only women of
color may not have that stage or so just think in that sense.
And then not sitting in that frustration, but thinking, what
kind of action can I take and how can I be an ally?
And really searching for those tools within your network and
ask people around you, what can I do for you?
Often you don't have to come up with a solution.
Sometimes you just have to ask. And more than more than not,
people are, especially the women that I know, more than willing
to share what they actually need.
And I think that's also like a tool and it's work where we also
need to take accountability of expressing what we actually
need. Because just complaining what's
not what's not working, speaking from my own perspective as a
woman of color, is that it's also important to really express
what you actually need to be changed and not just complain
about what's not working, but what do we want for men to do?
So I think this is a really valid question that raises a
good point. So it's a two way St.
Yes. Yasmina Kababi, thank you very
much for an amazing conversation.
If people would like to learn more about you, connect with
you, or learn more about Fresh Table and amazing work you're
doing, where would you like to send them?
Definitely freshtable.com, our website, but also you can shoot
a message to me directly on LinkedIn or e-mail me at Bismina
at trash table. I don't know.
Cool. And we'll, we'll include those
links in the show notes. So Yasmina, thank you from the
bottom of my heart for this conversation.
Really amazing listeners. Thank you very much for
listening and until the next episode, keep being awesome.
Well, that's it for episode 126 of Women Disrupting Tech with
Yasmina Kababi, titled Building Permissionless Inclusion One
meal at a time. Yasmina, and I hope that you
found our conversation as enlightening and inspiring as we
intended it to be. And if you have any questions
for Yasmina, please share them in the comments on Spotify,
Apple Podcasts, or YouTube. When you want to connect with
Jasmina or learn more about Freshstable, please check out
the links in the show notes. As usual, you can find the show
notes at Women Disrupting Tactile Block via the link in
the caption. In the show notes, you can also
find more information about the Embrace Health event that I
mentioned in the intro. If you've enjoyed listening to
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