So similarly, it's about, you know, the inner inner confidence
and inner self belief. And I believe that the way
founders and the investment ecosystems communicate will have
also changed so that, you know, someone pitching with, with a
certain style is not in itself a guarantee for investment or not,
but that we have more openness to different communication
styles and so on. And so that that the, the ideas
and the, and the founders have the ability to, to shine through
even if they don't fit. What is the traditional mold now
of a of a founder? Yeah.
And then VCs also have to start looking at like if if it's not a
white guy, maybe he can be capable or she can be.
Capable, yeah. But I think there it's like, you
know, confidence doesn't not automatically mean competence
and the other way around because we have different ways of being
in different communication styles and expression and and
there has to be more acceptance of that.
Welcome to Women Disrupting Tech.
My name is Erica Lucas, and on this podcast, I give the women
who work in tech the platform they need to inspire and empower
each other. Join me on a journey into the
world of entrepreneurship, funding biases, and role models
to discover the strategies for success in the tech industry.
In other words, how women can disrupt tech.
Are you ready to listen? Hey, welcome back to Women
Disrupting Tech and thank you for tuning in to episode 114.
So what happens when women stop asking for permission?
They raise their prices, negotiate their worth, and they
build businesses that reflect who they truly are, not who
others told them to be. In this episode of Women
Disrupting Tech, I speak with Catherine Renberg and she's the
Co founder of The Wealth Within Her.
She helps women rethink the stories that they've been told
about money, risk and confidence.
From being told to be careful as a girl to learning not to speak
up too much in meetings, these messages tend to stick around
and Catherine shares a process to shift those beliefs.
She also shares what happens when women start defining wealth
and success on their own terms. So when you're ready to listen
and learn how the wealth within her empowers women's finances
and self worth, please welcome to women disrupting tech
Catherine and Behr Hey Catherine, welcome to women
disrupting tech. Good to have you question I
always ask at the start is how you got into your current role
and of course yours. Thank you.
Great to be here. I'm really excited about our
conversation. And how did I get to my current
role? Well, my background has been
always in payments and fintech throughout my sort of career.
I started off actually at eBay, so the first few years, but from
eBay I went into PayPal and then I stayed within the pay, payment
and fintech space. And now what I do, I'll just
explain that and then explain how I did the transition.
Now, since about a year, I work as a payment consultant.
So working with payment companies as well as running the
platform, the wealth within her together with my Co founder.
And that's the, I guess the main focus today and how I got into
that was really looking at myself and talking to other
women in career, but also having, you know, done
entrepreneurial journeys and realizing how much we were
limiting ourselves in, in our careers and in our endeavours,
both privately and professionally.
So that's how we together with Rica, started the platform, The
wealth within Her really to look at women's relationship between
self worth, money, mindset and financial measures of success,
both at the individual side but also on the entrepreneurial
side. OK, So how, how is that
different for for women? Do they look, I mean, money is
money. Yeah, yeah.
Absolutely. And payments are payments.
What we look at a lot is is the relationship that we see between
self worth and net worth. So the fact that we believe that
a lot of how we relate to money and success is it's, it's
programmed basically from early childhood.
I mean how our relationship with money comes a lot from what we
experience both as men and women from childhood, what we see in
our families and so on. And that those patterns are then
repeated as we go into adulthood.
But but beyond that, what we also see is that society, and
that's society at large, but also parents, teachers,
etcetera, still treat girls and boys differently.
And, and that in turn translates again how into how we behave as
adults. And let me just give you a
couple of quick examples. There are a lot of studies that
show that 111 study in particular, I think it was it's
from 2017 from the published in the Journal of Pediatrics that
show that parents of young kids between 1:00 and 3:00 will
caution girls more against taking physical risks then they
caution boys. Then boys tend to, you know,
become more self reliant and confident that they can do
things. Whereas girls then start
thinking, oh, I have to be careful, I can't do this on my
own. Same thing with teachers helping
girls more than boys when they struggle with a task in school.
That's also something that we see from research and then
society. I mean, there are still, I was
in Amsterdam actually recently and went into the big Primark
shop close to the central station and just looked at the
T-shirts that were, you know, more targeting girls or boys.
And the boys T-shirts said things like explore and the
girls T-shirts said things like smile love.
And that's still today. I mean, that was two weeks ago
in Amsterdam. Those are the messages that, you
know, girls and boys are literally, you know, wearing.
And, and I believe that that has a very strong effect on, on
self-confidence, self worth, agency that we develop and how
that then effects a lot of things in adult life.
So would be fair to say that women feel less agency, more
dependence on on other people. Yeah, I believe.
I believe that's one part. And also that they become more.
Yeah. So the the dependency and and
the need to ask more for permission to seek external
approval before taking action. Yeah.
Oh, that's interesting. I didn't.
I didn't think of it that way to be honest, but you, you're
Swedish, right? Yeah.
Correct. You grew up in Switzerland, so
how did that influence your own upbringing and your own look at
self worth, at money, at asking for permission?
Yeah, or agency. So.
So in Sweden, I mean we have, we have two things that is kind of
ingrained in society. One what we which we call
yantelagen or it's a concept. And the other is a word called
logon, which is just about right.
There's no real translation for the word, but both of them I
think are very have very strong influence on society as a whole,
that you should not think that you are more than anyone else.
You should not strive to be better than anyone else.
And, and I think that that obviously effects women and men.
But if we go back to what we, what I, what we said a little
bit earlier about girls having the tendency to maybe more than
boys, seek external approval and make sure that they fit in.
So as a girl, you tend even more than to absorb these, these
societal norms of fitting in, of not doing more, of not sticking
out. And I think that from that, that
had for me, I think a big impact on, on wanting to be good and do
right, but not doing more. And and that has sort of also I
think, yeah, subconsciously impacted me and not maybe
pushing for promotions etcetera in my in my career as well.
So it hampered you in your upside?
Yeah, it limited you in your upside.
So the, the, the thing that came to my mind is it sounds really
almost egalitarian, but from what I know is that let's say
role patterns between men and women in Sweden are much more
equal. And in Nordic countries in
general, I think much more equal than let's say if you go to the
South or even to the US, for instance.
So there is also an upside I would say.
Yeah, I, I agree absolutely. I think that there's, you know,
there is a lot, especially when it comes to parental leave and,
you know, the ability for both parents to take time off to be
with their children. That is that is, you know,
encouraged and accepted widely in in Sweden as a society even I
would say to some extent now in the start up world.
And and you know, for entrepreneurs, I I know of male
entrepreneurs in very, you know, early stage start-ups who do
take time off for for being with their children.
So yeah, absolutely. That is a positive side of it.
And I think the other side of, I mean, that has kind of maybe
come out of that I said, you know, we are limited and not
wanting to stick out, but the possibility to share parental
responsibilities, for example, I think that is also helping some
women to also feel that they can take, you know, time for other
things as well potentially like starting businesses and so on.
They don't have that full heavy responsibility of being the more
or less the only one caring for the kids, which is a big
additional responsibility on top of of work, which doesn't give
you much time to start thinking about, you know, entrepreneurial
ventures and so on. So.
So I think that is definitely positive.
Yeah, it gives a lot of word. Not that it gives you some
headspace I would say. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Because I mean, you know where I am now in the wealth within her
about the care gap, then there are so many different gaps.
You know, anything from gender pay gap to authority gap,
confident, but also the care gap, which is the fact that in
most societies and countries it is the woman who takes the the
brunt of the responsibility of the unpaid care work for
children, other family members, etcetera.
And that is more equal in Sweden.
And I think that gives the opportunity to to pursue other
interests and ventures potentially.
OK. So before you worked in in, in
eBay, in PayPal and other start-ups, I was wondering what
what made you make the shift towards the wealth within our
the financial empowerment part, what triggered that?
I think one big part was self reflection.
I actually looked at myself and specific events in my life and
realized how much money I had left on the table by being a
woman. And it wasn't, you know, because
I was spending money on, on makeup or sanitary products.
It was actually because I wasn't confident enough to ask for
things that I now looking back, believe, you know, I had a right
to, for example, negotiating first salaries.
I mean, women in general tend to not negotiate the first salary
to the same extent that men. I didn't, I was happy to get my
first job. And then, you know, I have other
specific events around stock options that I didn't ask for
even though they were in my contract because I thought I I
need to prove myself first before I ask for it.
And I just. So I did that for myself and
realized, OK, there is actual real money left on the table.
And then I had conversations with my Co founder and a lot of
other women around me that I had worked with or who were in my
social network who were doing the same things.
I mean, I have, I have someone I'm kind of I'm working with
right now who was who's who was saying, well, I will not ask for
a pay raise this year. I'll wait till next year because
my nanny was off for a few months last year.
So I wasn't, you know, fully committed to work.
I need to prove myself first before I ask.
And, and I believe that again, that is something how we've been
programmed and it's not, it's not to our advantage.
And I wanted to bring that to more women's attention, and not
just women, but to society as at large.
Yeah. So how do you, how can we change
that? I mean, the the, the patterns I
recognize I've heard that quite a lot.
Now on the negotiation part, women also tend to get punished
if they start to to, to negotiate like men do, like
playing hardball. So there's a whole thing of,
yeah, let's say societal norms and biases that comes with that
territory. But how can we change the way we
a the, the mindset of women and B, also the, the societal
acceptance of the change in behaviour?
Because I think we're in a shift in the transition phase towards
that moment that we start to accept that.
But I see a lot of and I hear a lot of resistance.
Yes, and and I mean, to your point, yeah, women get, you
know, quote, UN quote punished for negotiating, which is is sad
in itself. But I'm not also pushing women
to be like men. I'm just pushing women to be
more authentic to who they are themselves.
And I think to answer your question, one is awareness, both
on the women's side and on the rest of society, realizing that
we are all behaving according to, you know, programmed
behaviors and and biases. So taking the space and time to
question how we behave and where those beliefs come from, I think
is super important. And starting the comp.
So the awareness comes from starting the conversation.
That's a big part of what we're doing with the wealth within
her. I mean, we focus on on, as I
said, women in in career and then also on the start up
ecosystem. But for women in careers, we'd
run our wealth circles, which is just a safe space to talk about
money and definitions of wealth and self worth.
And I hear so many times, especially when we talk about
money, which I believe is only obviously one part of wealth.
It's it wasn't talked about when these women were growing up.
And often still women don't talk about money.
So just creating a space talk about money to talk about self
worth, I think it's important on that side.
And and then it extends into, OK, well, how can we then define
or become more, more confident in our own value to then be able
to negotiate for example, a salary because we believe we
deserve? Yeah, because this, this has to
do a lot with worthiness. Yes, yeah, absolutely.
So then I was wondering how you look at it, how do we avoid that
younger women, let's say, who are in maybe universities or in
school right now that they make the same mistakes, that they run
into the same issues. Because you're, you're, I'm
using air quotes here, you're fixing, we're helping, let's say
women who have had, who are in a career, helping them become more
self confident. How, how do we teach that to
younger women and girls, especially?
Because I think that's if if we want to avoid the the patterns
repeating in themselves, we have to break them somewhere.
Absolutely. And I sometimes hear when I have
conversations with people like we are, but that has changed.
Now there is a belief that things have changed, that they
are different. But the example that I gave you
with the T-shirts, that's right now.
So worlds, you know, between the ages of five and 15 right now
are still getting the same messages.
And, and I, yeah, I think it's super important.
And, and the Pisa, you know, study, which is a big study by
the OECD, they, they, they, they question 15 year olds around,
you know, how confident they are and well prepared for day-to-day
situations. And there we see that the 15
year old girls questioned that last year, last time I think was
in 2020. Two or three are less confident
when it comes to money matters and managing finance and so on.
So it is very much a real problem still today for the
younger, younger generation. But I think so a couple of
things when you do create awareness at our level and at
our age, it pulls down to to our children.
I mean, I, I'm the mother of daughter, my Co founder is the
mother of two daughters. So we have many more
conversations also with our own children.
And I think it's super important to look at financial education
for kids and there's a lot that's happening around that
now, financial education, but the link between financial
education and self worth. And and yeah, and I, I, we work
also with some, you know, have conversations with neo banks and
and other initiatives that that work specifically with kids.
So there's two things I want to double click on what 1 is just
continuing this this part. What is the differences,
difference in messaging that you have towards your your daughter
versus what you've been taught yourself?
Yeah. What's the biggest difference?
Versus what? So we talk a lot about money
with my daughter, which I, we didn't when I was growing up.
And, and, and so, you know, creating the, the awareness
around what money is, how to. So that's more like the
practical confidence. But I think that is that is
important, the practical confidence that she understands
how to deal with money, the fact that she needs to budget if she
wants to buy something that is, you know, more more expensive,
etcetera. And of course, I talk about that
with my son as well. So we have an open conversation
around how to deal with money, etcetera.
And then I think my biggest one biggest thing that I try to do
with both kids as well is I don't praise them for being
good. I praise them for their effort.
And again, I think that that for me is different from how I was
brought up and how I believe girls tend to be praised for,
you know, yeah, doing the right thing rather than for their
effort and for trying and and so on.
So how does that then impact behaviour?
Do you see that that, that because she she's trained
differently, rewarded on effort rather than on, on executional
outcome? Do do you see different results
already? I don't know how old your
children are. And by the way.
Yeah, yeah. My daughter is 11 turning 12.
I so I think one thing I also related to that is which I do
see is that I, I get, I hear from her more, oh, this is what
I did. I'm happy with what I did
because because she has sort of the say the self reflection
about the effort she put in rather than the outcome.
And I think that's yeah, that's important.
And I believe she probably tries things that she's not sure she
will be good at because she doesn't risk not being rewarded
for the outcome. I mean, you know, I will tell
her, oh, you did a good job because she tried it, not
because it was perfectly executed.
So that gives her the chance to try it.
Yes, and that also gives her the permission to fail and because
she she tried and then. And that was that was good in
that. Was the.
That was the purpose, not the perfection.
Exactly. OK.
And and just to add to that, I mean, I think that when you
extend it has an impact on on when we come back to
entrepreneurship because you don't know often the end result,
but you have to dare to try to succeed.
And women seeking perfection to a larger extent than men may
then self inhibit in trying because they are not sure of the
outcome. And there are.
If you're you reward people by the outcome, they generally tend
to risk less. Exactly, Yeah.
So the second thing I wanted to double click on is you worked
for PayPal. I consider sort of a financial
institution in itself. Do you see different mindsets
towards money and then more? Do you also see more educational
mindset about money in new banks versus old?
In in how they support their customers you mean?
Yes, for instance, but also how they do this internally, how
they feel the money internally. And you you more not sure I.
First, talk about the customer facing side, because that's
probably the easiest part. I mean, if, if we leave kind of
PayPal to the side, but I have conversations with, with, you
know, banks now I and, and neo banks and, and, and fintech
startups and so on. And I definitely see in, you
know, more recent times at least, you know, maybe more than
the different types of institutions that there is a lot
more focus on, on education and awareness.
I think that that has been a big shift recently and in putting
much more effort around financial education at all
levels. I mean there are there are a lot
of initiatives by the banks themselves and by independent
third parties, fintech startups to focus on financial education
for kids, specifically for women as well.
I mean, Gimme is one example, working with financial education
for kids, female invest is a big, you know, initiative for
female financial education and empowerment.
And I think that the lot of the other financial institutions are
also, you know, supporting that move towards more, more
education. So I see it, I think across the
board and I do see a lot of the banks doing, you know,
initiatives for the for the kids as well, the more traditional
banks as well, maybe a bit slower, but but I think, yeah,
it's all happening. Are are neo banks quicker at
that? Yes, I I definitely think that
they are quicker in integrating that.
Is there is there a matter of legacy that they still have to
deal with the old quote UN quote systems and programming, whereas
neo banks don't have the a the technological legacy but also B
the the let's say mindset legacy.
Yeah, I think it's both for sure.
I think that that both both play a role and mindset for sure as
well. Yeah.
So I want to go back to the wealth within her because you
offer a lot in terms of programs already.
The basic premise I think is about reprogramming the
subconscious. So we talked about the
programming that we get both from upbringing and from
education, and also which is being enforced by by society.
How do you start that pro reprogramming?
What take? Take me through the steps
please. So really the base for starting
is awareness. It's becoming aware that you may
have a program that you know, quote UN quote is not yours.
That's something that you have inherited and that is really
whether we're working with individuals or female founders,
that's the starting point, the awareness and to make sure that
you don't just become aware once and then it falls into, you
know, you fall into your old patterns and behaviours.
We really encourage regular sort of journaling or other other
activities to reflect on a continuous basis.
How am I, how am I, you know, responding when I have financial
decisions to make or when I'm spending?
What was my reaction when I had to pay my bills or whatever?
Because, because it's something that is so ingrained.
Subconscious is programs, it's about 95% of our mind is, you
know, subconscious according to various studies.
And, and so it's something that we do without being aware.
So that's why. It's on autopilot.
That's why the awareness once is
important. But the the continuous sort of
reflection is the is the key to to change it, because otherwise
you fall back into the autopilot.
Yeah. So do you have some sort of
mechanism to to sort of trigger or prompt people to do that?
Yeah. So, I mean, as I said, what we
encourage is, you know, daily or at least weekly reflection on,
on the, and it depends on the individual, what is the, what
are the, the biggest things that they want to change?
But to go back and reflect on their day and, or on their week
and, and say, OK, well, how, how you know, what was the, what was
the situation? How did I react?
How did I feel? How would I like to have
responded and repeating that again and again?
Because then then you bring it back up from the from the
default pattern to something that you can then actively
change. OK.
So how do you then make that shift to actually changing?
Because you're looking back at the situation and you're
creating sort of, let's say creating the delta between this
is what how I felt versus this is how I would have liked to
have felt. How do you help people
transition from from one to the next?
So as I said, so awareness is the first step, reflection back
is the second step, and then the third, the third one is then
actually being aware in the moment it happens and creating
that little bit of space between the action or the situation and
the response. And in that space you can then
choose how to respond. Because you in in the beginning,
the situation triggers an automatic reaction, but through
awareness and and sort of repetition, you create the space
where you can choose how to respond.
OK, so because you start to recognize the situations, you
actually get the sort of, yeah, let's call it permission for you
create a permission for yourself to to just step back for a
second, say hey, oh, this is that old thing again.
This is what we didn't want. And then now.
I can choose. Now I can choose and then as a
question. I suppose this is a matter of
repetition before it becomes the new normal.
Exactly. So it doesn't change overnight.
And sometimes, you know, we, we look at ways to change it over,
over overnight. But I think awareness,
repetition are are the ways to create lasting change.
Yeah, So how do your wealth circles fit into this?
So the wealth circles we run with either online or offline on
a monthly basis. So bringing women together to
create the space to talk about self worth, wealth, money.
So yeah. So, so that is where we create
the, the awareness and the safe space for self reflection.
And then between the circles, then the women have the time
kind of, I guess, to, to practice and then come back and,
and reflect on, OK, how did it go?
How, how, how am I behaving differently or not?
And share their stories and realize that they are not alone.
I mean, a lot of of the patterns that we, we have are similar
between us because the societal programs are similar because we,
we live, you know, in the same, in the same society.
So in the in the end goal is to help women especially to stop
seek that external validation part and to to trust their own
yeah instinct when it comes to money.
What results have you seen so far?
I work quite a lot with solo entrepreneurs, small
entrepreneurs. So one thing that I've had
feedback from from some several of them has been that they have
been able to change their pricing.
And that's, I think, a very, you know, concrete.
Yeah, tangible. Link between wealth and self
worth or the fact that you value yourself enough to be able to
ask for higher pricing and, and yeah, so that's been really,
really good to hear but also when it comes to, you know,
managing wealth, so savings, investments and so on, which is
another big theme where, where unfortunately women tend to
invest less. And, and that there I've also
had feedback where, you know, immediately after a circle
someone wrote to me and said, oh, I actually went back home.
I logged into my online trading account.
I did a review of my investments and I made changes because I
hear a lot that, oh, I don't really want to look at it.
I kind of ignore it I because we don't feel so confident in, in,
in investing, for example. So we tend to to, yeah.
Yeah, avoid. It the decision.
Yeah, yeah. The the the easiest decision is
always to just follow the index, yeah, which is I think a very
good start for at least. Absolutely.
I mean, that's a very good start, but even just to go in
and look at it and see, OK, is it going up or down?
Sometimes we just choose not to even look, which I think is a
shame because then we don't become familiar with what's
actually happening and the fact that we are responsible for at
least being aware of of our finances.
OK. Because that's interesting,
because I worked for an asset manager for a long time and I've
always been told, like most of the investments you do, you just
set it and forget it. Yeah, absolutely.
I think that that there is, there is, you know, good advice
in that as well that you shouldn't be trying to sort of
be more clever maybe than the investment and, and, and
obviously with compound interests, you're in it for the
long term and so on. But that doesn't mean that you,
I think there's a difference between doing that and kind of
being confident in that. What in, in, in that you've done
that and, and, and feeling that. Oh, I don't want to look at it
because because it comes from feelings of being afraid or not
confident and and I think that. Just dive back into the results
training that you're rewarded for results.
Yeah, probably so. Because you're afraid of the
result that might not be in line with what you hoped for,
expected slash thought it would be, and as a result you don't
look. Yeah, Yeah, I think so.
I think that probably there is something around that that like
also taking it personally then I did not do well because I did
this. So yeah.
Because it was my decision to invest in this fund or this
company and it didn't perform as well.
I feel less, less good as as a result less confident.
It's interesting. I'm starting to recognize a
couple of patterns in my own head.
By the way, just just for context of listeners, my mind's
racing right now. So I have a question about the
the investment part and a more risky part because I think
you've also been AVC in venture capital.
No, I just work as an advisor and we were so advising
entrepreneurs and then we work on the VC side with VC
companies. But myself, no.
Oh. OK, So you're, you're you're
more an advisor as on both ends. Yeah.
But I'm going to ask the question then differently.
How do we get more women to invest in, let's say more risky
asset classes like like startups?
Because I've I'm I'm start trying to form my own faults on
this. I was wondering how you look at
it. I think there are two things.
No, they are probably more more than that.
But one is of course as around risk.
Women tend to be more risk conscious.
I would like to use the word conscious instead of averse,
but. Women are not less risk averse
than men. They can be more more risk
taking, but they need more information.
Yeah. And so I think that that is, you
know, part of then how do you, you know, create situations that
the women feel that they are in a position to take that risk.
I think it's also, I mean, I would like to split, split it
also because I think that ownership is, is, is very
important and being aware that with through ownership, we can
impact the world. So obviously there's the VC and
the more institutional way to invest and own, but there's also
as individuals or Angel investors, you don't have to
have huge amount of capital to own.
And and there again it becomes. It comes back, I think a little
bit to the self worth feeling confident that I, I have the
capability and also the right to own and impact through
ownership. And so we, we encourage, I mean,
I mean, step one is investing, you know, through the stock
market and so on. Step 2, I think is Angel
consortiums and so on to, to, for, for normal women to have
more possibilities to invest. And then Step 3 is then working,
as we said, you know, from, from early from, you know,
encouraging women at, at university and early in their
careers to see the opportunity to also work in these, in these
businesses as, as VCs in, in the investment industry.
And there are initiatives at the university level and and entry
level to encourage more women to become investors.
OK, so how do you, how do you look at the whole theme of women
investing in women for the purposes of of increasing the
amount of money that is invested in female LED startups?
Yeah, I think that obviously we want everyone to invest in
everyone in general. But I do think that in many
cases, women investing in in women and women, you know,
female investors investing in, in, in female founded companies,
there can be a good synergy because of the types of
companies that women tend to, you know, be maybe more over
representative when it comes to impact business businesses, You
know, femtech and female health, which is a more growing industry
and a very important industry. And so if women tend to invest
with maybe a little bit more heart, then there's a nice fit
there with with actually impacting the world and
supporting those businesses to thrive by investing.
Is it also in part reducing? Because I've had this discussion
with my girlfriend and she said well I'm not that rich so I
don't have a boatload of money lying around, but I would like
to make a difference with. But then I'm sort of limited to
let's say smaller ticket sizes. My question is, do you think the
smaller ticket sizes are a good idea?
Yeah, I think because I think their community comes in to
play. So, you know, investing as a
Angel consortium or pulling your investments investment clubs,
there are different ways to invest, even if you don't have a
lot of, you know, a lot of money, of course, very easily on
the through an investment app. But even if you want to do
direct investments into, into companies, working with other
experienced or less experienced Angel investors is a good way
to, to, you know, create a little bit more impact by
pulling together resources. I think those are models, you
know, from Africa as well. I don't remember what, what the,
the real name is, but the, you know, investing clubs in, in
rural societies where, where women tend to, to, to work
together to support each other with, with investments within
the community is a good example of that as well.
Oh. That I didn't know about.
I think there's a bit, quite a bit to learn about how to make
that work. So OK, so I want to move a bit
towards the future. Let's let's say the wealth
within our becomes wealthy, successful, and you manage to
educate a lot of women on taking control of their own finances
and control of their own self worth.
What will have changed in 2032 if you reach that goal?
I think women own their definitions of wealth and wealth
goes beyond financial measures. So it's around, you know, well
impact time, etcetera. I think that is that is an
something that will have changed.
The T-shirts, slogans on girls T-shirts will not, you know,
tell them to smile, but to invest and explore and be bold
and brave. But I think it's really about
owning our own definitions of wealth.
Because when when you when you own it and believe it for
yourself, then you have the power to to make decisions that
align with your own beliefs. OK.
And for female founders, where you see, do you see their
opportunities? Yeah.
So similarly it's about, you know, the the inner inner
confidence and inner self belief.
And I believe that the way founders and the investment
ecosystems communicate will have also changed.
So that, you know, someone pitching with, with a certain
style is not in itself a guarantee for investment or not,
but that we have more, more openness to different
communication styles and so on. And so that that the the ideas
and the and the founders have the ability to to shine through
even if they don't fit what is the traditional mold now of a of
a founder? Yeah.
And then VCs also have to start looking at like if, if it's
another white guy, yeah, maybe he can be capable or she can be.
Capable, yeah. But I think there it's like, you
know, confidence doesn't not automatically mean competence
and the other way around because we have different ways of being
in different communication styles and expression and and
there has to be more acceptance of that.
OK. Thanks.
That's an interesting one to, to turn it around because I was
more like, OK, the biases on the on the, we know that white guys
can deliver. So we invest in white guys
because that's what the way it has always been.
But it's more what I'm hearing you say.
It's more nuanced on communication style, confidence
and. Yeah.
I mean, yes, white guys have have delivered because they are
the only ones who've had the chance.
But also we know that not all white guys deliver, but they
sound confident and therefore they get the money anyway
sometimes. They they get away with a lot of
BS. Yeah, yeah.
So I'm on a mission to make diversity in tech and inclusion
in tech, especially the new normal by the end of 2032.
Based on your experience, what is a bold move that we can all
take? So I've talked a lot about
awareness, but I think to take that even further, measuring,
tracking and, and and incentivizing those who are
already leading in tech based on what we've talked about South,
based on the fact that women and, and men still tend to, to,
to behave differently, I think that can have a real impact.
Just one example is, for example, we talked about
negotiating salaries and so on. But if if you don't, you know,
change the job descriptions to attract more women and know and
are aware of the fact that women will apply for a job if they
meet 100% of the job criteria, but a guy will apply if you need
60, then you're going to exclude women if your job description
looks a certain way. So, so yeah, being aware of
that, but also tracking then how are you actually performing on
that will make a big difference I think.
Yeah, true. And how do we incent?
How can I incentivize women without making it about to
result so more recognizing them for the effort?
Yeah. I mean, I think that that is
that that's the again, the example with with the job
descriptions encouraging women to apply even if they don't meet
100% of of the job criteria. That's that's, you know,
awarding them for the effort of applying, not for being perf
being a perfect match, but they need to be aware that they don't
have to to have the results from the beginning to to be
considered, you know, a good match, for example.
That's absolutely strong, strong point to to finish on.
Kathleen Remberg, thank you very much for an amazing
conversation. If people want to learn more
about you and the wealth within her, where can they find that?
So Instagram, LinkedIn, Spotify and our own website is all at
the wealth within her.com, so very easy to find.
There's also a podcast. There's also a podcast, yes.
OK, so we'll link to that in the show notes.
So again, thank you very much for the conversation.
Really enjoyed it. And listeners, thank you very
much for listening. Until the next episode, keep
being awesome. Well, that's a wrap for episode
114 of Women Disrupting Tech with Catherine Reinberg, titled
How the wealth within our Empowers Women's Finances and
Self worth. Catherine and I hope that you
found our conversation as empowering and motivating as we
intended it to be. And if you have any questions
for Catherine, please leave them in the comments on Spotify,
Apple or YouTube. I'll make sure you'll receive an
answer. When you want to connect with
Catherine or learn more about The Wealth Withinner.
Please check out the links in the show notes.
As usual, you can find the show notes at Women Disrupting
Tactile Block and the link is also in the description.
And if you're a woman and you're done playing small with your
money, please check out their program, The Wealth Shift.
It starts in September. And of course, that link is also
in the show notes. If you enjoyed this episode,
please consider leaving a rating or a review on Apple or Spotify.
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