Welcome to Women disrupting Tech.
My name is Dear Kanupkas, and on this podcast I give the women
who work in tech the platform they need to.
Inspire and empower each other. Join me on a journey into the
world of entrepreneurship, funding biases, and role models
to discover the strategies for success in the tech industry.
In other words, how women can disrupt tech.
Are you ready to listen? Hey, welcome back to Women
Disrupting Tech and thank you for tuning in to Episode 122.
You probably know that scaling your company too soon can weaken
your mission and your product. But did you know that sometimes
scaling is not even done by adding more features or people?
Meet Arocha Brauer, she is the Co founder of Guan and now also
the Chief Impact Officer at True Tribe.
You may have heard her before on episode 3 and 49 sharing her
founder journey and in this episode she returns to share how
exiting to True Tribe helped her skill the impact of Guan's
workplace well-being solution. In this episode of Women
Disrupting Tech, Arocha shares three important learnings from
her female founder journey. First, you'll learn why scaling
to become an end to end solution was never the right way to grow
for Guam. Second, you'll discover how she
preserved the mission and the impact of the solution she had
built. And 3rd, you'll hear what
expectations came with getting a platform and funding.
As a female founder. My take away from the episode
and exit is not the end of the story.
It's a great way to continue your legacy.
So when you're ready to listen and learn how Arosa skilled work
based well-being with impact and integrity, please welcome back
to women disrupting tech Arosa Brauer.
So Arosa Brauer, welcome back to women disrupting tech.
Welcome for your to your first. Yeah, it's first episode.
We're having you so good to have you.
So tell us all about your new position at True Tribe, as in
Chief Impact Officer. Thank you.
Thanks Dirkian, for inviting me back.
I always enjoy our conversations both on the podcast and off the
podcast. Yes, it's a, it's a new world.
My new role as chief impact officer at True Tribe.
It's really close to, I think why I commenced this journey or
the journey behind Kwan because it always was a bad impact.
And when Micah and I first discussed what the title could
be, it came down to, you know, Arosa, tell me what, what do you
want to do with your time? You know, what would you ideally
like to do going forward? And I said to her, you know,
it's always been about impact for me.
It's always been about solving a real problem, suggesting the
most relevant interventions to people and then being able to
measure if it's working or not. And you know, this is a societal
problem that we've undertaken to solve.
And for me, it's about whether or not the solution that we've
brought to market is working. And she said, well, that's
simple then should we not have you as a chief impact officer?
Well, that's Yeah. It's also cool that she ask you
what you want to do to do with your time, that she wanted you
on the team no matter what, and I think that's also a really
powerful testament to who you are and what you've built with
Qualm. Yes, but I would, I would, I
would also add to that, I think it's also a testament to who
Micah is. And I, I do believe she, she's,
she's known Lucy and I for a while.
She's been following the Quan story for a while and vice
versa. And I think founders are
typically stubborn. We don't typically like to take
direction from people. But this is someone that I've
deeply respected based on the journey that she's been on in
the past with message Bird, but also her why behind Trutribe?
It's, it's, it's very similar to mine, which is we're really
trying to crack the code of well-being and, and, and making
it work in the workplace. OK.
Well then that's sort of a natural match because may be
good to do rewind a bit. If I remember correctly, you
already worked with Jorge von Dzac that two tribe is
affiliated with or part of. Yes, correct.
So Zorg finders arc is now known as the Colby network.
So it's means collective betterment and it's it's super
nice because it's it's made-up of a collection of different
types of service providers. Geordie service, not software
are in the occupational health domains.
So very, you know, there's labels which are focused on
coaching and providing clinical therapy.
There are company doctors, there's various levels of
leadership training and all these topics are related to
sustainable workplaces and true tribe.
So when we when we started our partnership, it was literally as
a software partner just to because there were busy thinking
about, you know, what are the different types of digital
solutions they can bring into the market to complement the
service offerings. And through that journey, True
Tribe was formed which is an entity of the Colby Network.
And it is essentially an end to end well-being platform, which
has various components to it. So employee assistance programs,
analytics, the marketplace of various providers, whether it's
solutions such as therapy, clinical therapy, coaching, but
we're going to be bringing on other solutions as well.
And so it's it's got various components to it.
And this is, if you can think of it like the digital layer to
what's essentially being services.
Yeah. And it's also taking, if I hear
you correctly, a lot of services that are now traditionally
offline, like therapy into the online world, but also bring
them straight into the, let's say, occupational health domain.
Yes, yeah, exactly. And one of the things that I
failed to mention, but is a very, very important point when
we think about the true drive offering is absence management,
but using historical data to predict what might be happening
in a workplace and thereby being better placed to offer
interventions to reduce that. So that's predicting things like
attrition, acting things like long term sick.
Yeah, that's kind of fun. Sickness, absenteeism, long term
absenteeism. Exactly.
And, and, and this is really interesting because if we rewind
and think back to Quan, Quan essentially had built a very
specific team solution and we are able to identify at a deeper
level what might be happening in a team and suggesting
interventions to improve things that are happening in the team.
Now by joining forces with True Tribe, True Tribe is able to see
historical data on absentees and sickness.
But also based on that, I think it's an 85% accuracy predict
what might be happening in teams in the future.
And therefore solutions such as the quant team solution can be
suggested by OK, this particular department or this team is at
risk. Therefore we suggest XYZ and and
that is why I think this is a really strong end to end
proposition. OK.
So it's it's would it be then fair to say that the Quan is a
service that then would be distributed through through
tribe? Correct.
Yes. OK, so because I was about to
ask how how does Quan fit into the philosophy and service world
of True Tribe? But that's basically what it's.
So it starts with True Tribe signaling.
OK, there's something itchy going wrong in your team.
Start monitoring with Quan software or with the solution of
Quan. So does Quan as a as a app name
or as a as a company name, does it remain out there or does it
now become a brand of true trial?
Yeah. So I mean, for the first year,
you'll still will still reference Quan, but the idea is
that true tribe basically takes what it needs from Quan and
builds builds out further. But I think there's two things
from Kwan which are now in the foundations of true tribe.
One is our scientific framework, which has has now been validated
by kings and and that was like one of the most cool things that
were important as part of their position because we've done this
detailed study of what is well-being all these underlying
predictors and that's now validated.
And so you can't do any kind of matching without having a like
proper framework. So that's the first part.
And then the second thing is that team retro or the team
solution, which is actually just one intervention.
So you can think of the the core piece being the framework and
the algorithms around that. And the second thing being an
inbuilt team solution, which is a digital solution that can
scale very quickly. Cool.
So how how was this whole process?
How did it work? So at some point you start
working with short phone Zack, how to Kobe network and how does
that evolve to what I think is an acquisition?
Yeah, yeah. And this is, you know, we've, I
don't know if we've talked, I think we did talk about this in
our last podcast, which is it's not just what you know, but it's
who you know. And you know, obviously in over
the last year, I've talked to a lot of people around
acquisitions and, you know, mergers and all sorts.
And what I've really come to learn about acquisitions is it
is about who you know, and especially if you're an impact
founder, you don't just sell your company, you know, you,
you, you really do it for a reason.
And in our case, it was about scale.
And it was super important for us to, to align ourselves with a
company that had the same mission as us.
That was like that is that is the most important thing for
Lucy and I. It's five years of super hard
work. It's our legacy.
And it's not just Lucy and I, but also everybody else that's
been involved. And we've been talking a lot in
the market about well-being and being able to measure it.
And so and the importance of that and the market really
responded to that, that you know, we we got a lot of media
coverage for that. And so we felt that we needed to
find a way to continue that message and only with a company
that had the distribution reached but was 100% aligned.
And so as part of the collaboration with
Zorgfundazaki, then named Zorgfundazak, it was very, very
clear that within this network, health and well-being is a
priority. It's, it's, it's seen in, in all
the activities and events that they do.
It's seen in the messaging. If I look at the individual
labels of the Kobe network, the directors typically have, you
know, 2025 years experience in mental health, various doctors.
And there's actually one lady who runs I Mind Life that's
studied theology. She was a priest.
So I find myself surrounded by super smart, purpose LED people
that truly prioritize health and well-being.
And then, you know, of course there's a there's a, the range
of doctors and, and so this commitment to the topic and
science was for me and Lucy, incredibly important.
And that was the first thing we need to establish before
thinking about do we want to be part of this network, right?
And so the conversation, right, acquisition probably started
about a year ago and then serious steps started probably
in December, January, I'd say. So it's quite far, six months,
but it was getting to know each other, understanding what we
wanted to do independently. I mean, it was like, what does
True Tribe want to do? What does Kwan want to do?
What does Lucy want to do? What does the Roche want to do?
What does Mike want to do? You know, So we had all these
layered conversations and we took the time to really
understand all of that and obviously involve our investors
in those conversations and we had huge support.
I have to really thank my investors for thinking along and
being super cool. Can you give an example of
thinking along? Yeah.
I mean, when the question of, OK, who would we want to partner
with Kmart, it's, you know, very clear with this makes sense for
us For these reasons. And there are certain types of
pathways we weren't willing to take and there was no question
about that. And our investors have trusted
the decisions we've made. And I'd like to believe that
it's because of the integrity that we've demonstrated for the
last five years. And so it's with transparency
and integrity and respect that we've had conversations, they've
helped on various aspects, whether it's reviewing documents
or just asking us questions to understand the deal better,
right? But it was it always came from a
place of how do we ensure the mission of Quan is prioritized?
And how do we ensure that you as founders, but also your team
have what you need? And that that for me, as as as
left a really warm and fuzzy feeling.
Yeah, now I can imagine. Right.
Which not which not every exited founder can attest to.
No, no, I mean, it's really powerful if you can go into a
process from a place of OK, we just trust the the outcome
because we trust people because essentially that's what I'm
hearing you say, right? A. 100% And I mean, of course
there were questions and we've had many conversations, but I
don't think that was ever a question mark.
I and I was certainly not made to feel that way.
And so for that, I need to thank my investors.
Yeah, So what, just let's just rewind a tiny bit because I was
wondering what at what point did you become convinced?
Like, OK, if we want to prolong the life of Guam, we need to go
the acquisition route and not the independent route.
So what triggered that? I think about two years ago when
the market started to shift, we started to see a difference in
the appetite of our previous buyers.
Now luckily for us, we already had a proven solution.
We, we had a net revenue retentions of 120% and we had a
few big logos which are expanding.
So we knew what we feel was working.
But the question is, is how do we now replicate it?
And it was becoming increasingly harder for us to, I mean, what
we, what we'd learned was that we'd feel a very, very unique
deep solution, but it was not an end to end stand alone.
And so we need to be part of something, right?
And so we spent about a year investigating what are the
various options to be part of something?
What would be a, want to be part of and B, what are the, what are
our options? And then what we learned was,
yes, the market was ready for that, but not so much in a
partnership, but more of a merger or an acquisition.
And so the conversations we were having with those companies was
in that flavor. So you know, the question is, is
do you want to raise more money, maintain ownership and try and
build this thing yourself or do you start to look at M&A options
and what what are you going to look at?
And so loose and I again is this sounds terrible, but I emailed
this to one of our investors the other day.
It was never about ownership. It was always about impact.
And you know, we've always said that we're a movement dressed up
as self. And so for us, it didn't really
matter from an M and a perspective.
What we knew was if we'd done the independent route, the
chance of failure was much, much higher.
And everything we've built and what we stand for is way more
important than that. And so we started to look at M&A
and what that entails and having serious conversations with
potentials. OK, so at some point you found
out that let's say the appetite to or that there was a fit, but
it wasn't a full with fit, let's say so and not end to end, yes.
Then what triggered you to decide, OK, let's go for the
acquisition round and not build the the the built in end to end
solution. I mean, it's very simple, right?
I mean, to build something like that out can, can be very, very
expensive. It's riddled with uncertainty.
It's going to take a lot more time and a lot more money and
so. And, and I'm not talking about a
difference of a million or two. This is like upwards of of five
to 10 million, right? Because you don't, you don't
just build an NTN platform, you also have to build your NTN
sales and marketing channel, right?
And so, so that's what we're up against.
But I think it's, I think it's important also for me to mention
what the solution we built does, right?
And we did a really interesting exercise, you can call it a
customer research, but also prospect research about a year
and a half ago. And what we discovered is that
Quan is a little bit like a a super tool at your dentist.
And what I mean by that is we are good at identifying teams or
areas where things might not be going well and then being able
to fact find what actually is happening and then involve the
leader and the team to fix it. Right.
So let's let's use the analogy of a dentist.
If I'm to e-mail you, you're just sitting there behind your
laptop and you receive an e-mail from someone saying, hey,
Jerkyan, do you have a pain in your in the backside of your
molars, like top, top left? Does that hurt?
Is there something wrong with your mouth?
You're probably wondering who the hell is this and why are
they emailing me, right? If you go to the dentist and
they're looking at your teeth and they say, hey, we've seen a
problem here, but I've got a solution which I can use and the
pain will go away. It'll fix the problem.
Were you going to trust that cold outbound e-mail or your
dentist? Yeah, probably the dentist in
this case. Exactly.
So Quan Quan being that specialist tool for that
specific problem needs to be in the hands of a dentist, right?
And that's, and, and The thing is, is we as founders, we're not
interested in building the, the, the, the dentist studio or
whatever they call it, right. And then like outfitting the
dent, we were, we were solving that problem, right.
We're happy to solve. Well, we didn't care about
fixing people's crooked teeth and everything else around it,
right? And and and.
You were there. Let's say the X-ray that
identifies the the the exactly. Exactly.
And so we, we discovered that this is the problem we solved
well, and this is what we're really interested in.
And in order for us to outfit the whole thing, it'll cost us a
hell of a lot more and take us a lot of time, but it also takes
us from the initial thing that we wanted to do.
And and so we're at this juncture where we need to
decide, is this, is this the path or are we just going to
double down? And so the option to double down
and have be part of a company which will have the resources to
do the rest, it's hugely appealing.
And the reason why this acquisition made a lot of sense
because we also recognize the need for other services.
It's just that we were focused on one thing and now?
As A and also you were focused on one specific, being good at
something very specific, but also at the impact you were
creating as a result. Well, I mean was it 80% of the
teams like super high where we ended up, it was 90% of the
teams improved their sub dimensions by an average of I
don't even know that 3040% within 12 weeks.
It was like crazy how it was working, you know, so and, and
for us, we were high fiving each other because it was working and
on so we didn't want to water that down.
Now I understand if something is working, you want to keep it
working and also improve that part that you're really good at,
yeah. And, and when you have a certain
size of team or resources, you know, one thing that we learned,
I don't know if it was from YC, but you know, just along the
journey as a startup or a scale up smaller company, right?
Less than 20 people, you can't do everything, right?
So if you're not focused, you could die in the process.
You just, and so for us, it was about what do we focus on?
What do we want to double down on?
And this is, this is, this is ultimately what it was.
Yeah. And how do you preserve your
legacy? And that's by key, by staying
alive and then becoming part part of a bigger organization
that that solves the end to end problem.
The end exactly that solves the end to end and then all of our
knowledge. And I think this is what was
also interesting for the Colby Network or for True Tribe
specifically is the knowledge and insights that we bring from
five years being in the market and building in the market.
Because it's not that we haven't noticed what's happening on the
periphery. On the contrary, we've seen all
of the movements. And so we come in with a with a
real kind of view of, OK, these are really great players in the
market and this is what makes them good.
These are the things that we did not look at, but we think are
really interesting and and I think that makes also brings a
lot of value. What new opportunities arise for
Quan or for the software as a result of this acquisition?
It's very clear distribution and reach, yeah, I mean.
But also larger organizations than you've been able to service
so far. Yeah, Yeah.
I mean that they will come in, in the next few months as we're
sort of deep into the integration now, but it's just
the, the, the brands and the, and the reach is just that much
bigger. You know, you can't go knocking
on the door of some of these big logos as a as a start up.
It's just, I mean, not to mention any names, but I was
talking to a bank. It's been more than a year and I
think we're getting finally ready to do a pilot, you know,
meanwhile, the acquisitions taken place, you know, all of
those relationships are already established here.
And so it's much easier for them to say, hey, we've got this
thing, shall we turn it on, you know, and that's infinitely
different. Yeah, absolutely.
The sales cycle is a lot shorter than also because you have
people on the floor that already have sputter problem and who
have already convinced the customer that they have the
issue so they might as well turn that on for.
We found our dentist. Yeah, I'll use that as a quote
we found. I love the analogy.
Maybe, maybe not so appealing for to most people, but in this
case it's very telling I think. Sense, right?
Yeah. So I want to shift gears a bit
because a while ago we discussed and I remember being in the in
the gallery and you told me something that really stuck with
me for a long, long time. And that is that you felt the
pressure to perform as a female founder of color.
Can you double click on that for me?
I think that, you know, we all know the statistics that it's
less than 2% of women founders that actually raise BC money in
Europe. And so Lucy and I are, you know,
the, what do you call it? The lucky?
I don't know. I don't like to use the word
lucky. I think we're just just part of
that that that. Let's call it a chosen 1.
Yeah, which is also not fair because there's plenty of
amazing founders out there, women found.
And what I was saying to you when we spoke was those of us
that have raised capital and or received media attention,
whether we speak about it publicly or not, we feel the
sense of responsibility to make our companies a success for the
sisters that come after us, right?
Because if it's already hard to raise you, you want more success
stories so that it's easier for those after us to raise.
And so when I was talking to you, I think it was gone back
almost a year and a half or maybe though times are tough,
it's tough times. I said to you to Jan Quan has to
succeed because we stand for more than just us.
And I mentioned this story and that's that's that's what I was
referring to. And I still stand by that.
You know, it may be, you know, and I remember like other
founders, even my investors saying you don't need to carry
that. That's not it's not your burden
to bear. And I'm like, yeah, but if all
of us think of that, then then what's left, right?
But if all of us do think like that.
Is that also part of the impact you were hoping to achieve?
I mean, when we started Kwan, we really did not think anything
about the plight of the woman founder.
That was never, but because we've raised from Joanna Invest
and her slab and enormous support that they've shown us,
because I've been on your podcast, because I've talked
about this topic in the media, I now feel that sense of
responsibility, right? And so I didn't understand much
of it before I started this whole thing.
And now I do. And now it's something that I
find very important, very important.
Yeah. So I was wondering, so because
you build a company Quan and at some point you end up being
acquired, how difficult was it to quote UN quote let go?
That was very easy because it was never about ownership and it
was always a movement. And something I think I
mentioned to you, I was pregnant when the idea of Quan came
about. And so I never felt that Quan
was my baby because I was actually growing a baby.
And when Quan came to fruition, there were so many people behind
it. I mean, there still are.
You know, we're talking about more than 40 different people
being part of the Quan journey as a team member.
We're talking about €3 million in investment from a number of
funds both in Europe and the US and each of those funds have
various people that have played a role.
All the legal advice, all the tax advice, our customers, our
suppliers. I mean this, this whole thing is
not just Lucy or me, It's not mine, right?
Our community, I think at its peak, more than 300 people in
there standing for it. Like saying this is really
important. It really is a movement, right?
So when the decision was, how do we ensure that she, because we
said that Juan was a, a female, a woman, not a woman, but a
female entity. She needs to succeed, right?
She needs to somehow or another find a way to continue the work
that she is capable of doing. It was a simple passing of the
baton and Lucy and I are honoured to be part of the
journey still. But we don't own it right.
We're a part of it, but to be honest, we're always like that.
Yeah. So that just out of curiosity
then how has, because in a moment ago we talked about the
pressure you felt as a female founder because you were able to
raise. How has that helped you build
Squam and go through the acquisition process?
Has that pushed you forward? Has that?
Yeah. I mean, no, I think when you're
I needed, I needed the the mission to continue, right?
And I needed there to be a story in the market which stated that
it is possible as a woman or woman of color, also
non-technical that has an idea that can help the world.
It is possible for her to start from zero, from Ground Zero with
no connections and no money to build something which is then
acquired by a larger company and where the mission is safeguarded
to impact hundreds and thousands of lives like it is possible.
I needed that story. I needed the story that you can
take an idea and bring it so far and improve people's lives and
not by 10s or hundreds, hundreds of thousands, if not millions.
That's I wanted to show that. And so if we had gone bankrupt,
the story would have ended, right.
But we did not. We were acquired where the
company's mission is 100% aligned to the acquiring company
and where Lucy is the chief product officer.
So the new product sits under her and I'm the chief impact
officer. So the measurement of how things
work and saying basically, I've, I'm saying that I continue as
the conscience of true tribe. It, it enables us to continue
our work. And so it is a success story and
it should then make others feel those that wake up with, I
really think this is a problem that we need to solve.
And I, I really want to be able to solve it.
It is possible for you to achieve that.
That was what I wanted to get at, right?
And I don't, I don't have that pressure of fearing, you know,
bankruptcy or, you know, all the stuff that founders go through,
right? I don't, I don't have those
pressures. No, not anymore now.
But I, that was a price that I was willing to pay for the last
five years. We face that, you know, you face
a lot and bankruptcy is just one of them.
Like you face a lot. But yeah, that was a price that
I was willing to pay. And ultimately, it's paid off.
Yeah, 100%. So if you would have to do it
all again, what would you do the same and what would you do
different? Let me first, let me just
rephrase that. Would you do VC the VC route
again? That's a good question.
I think the VC route, what's important to understand and why
see, makes it really, really clear they're trying to find the
companies that are unicorns that are going to be worth a billion
dollars or more, right? And recently I was speaking with
an Impact founder actually working on a solution for mental
health, and she will see about applying to YC.
But then she outlined a couple of the initial principles, one
of which you wanted to make it free and there's another one
which basically meant the monetization and business model
was going to be tough. And I my word of caution was not
to go through EC and there are so many other funding options if
you want to be a true social entrepreneur.
Now your question was would I want to go down the VC route
again Obviously I'm not thinking about founding anything anytime
soon. If I was to if if if I came
across an idea that you know satisfies a gap in the market
monetization is clear. I need a lot of money to build
it quickly and then this could be a billion dollar idea and you
know, we have the technical Co founder Yeah, sure.
BC root great. But if I want to focus on sort
of more social entrepreneurship impact and take my time and do
something differently and I still need a little bit of
capital, I might look more at grants or other funding
opportunities through like corporate social funds and
things like that and that that that would be different.
So it really depends on what I what problem I want to tackle
and the kind of solution I want to build.
I'm not going to talk bad about VCs, especially because when
push came to shove, VCs respected our decision.
But I think anyone that's thinking about taking VC money
really needs to think about what is it they're trying to build
and what is you know what, why do they think it's going to be a
billion dollar solution And it is capital.
Yeah. And and do you need the external
capital to build it or can you bootstrap it and?
Exactly, exactly. You know, and once you take VC
money, I mean, they have their own LP's, right?
They also fund. And so it's annoying when they
ask you for these quarterly or monthly reports, but they're
also trying to manage people, right?
And so it's a process. So I think we just need to
understand that. And that, again, was one of the
biggest lessons that Lucy and I learned from YC was how to have
healthy investor relations. And I feel that we did have
healthy investor relations. We didn't always agree, right?
OK, so so let's double click on that.
What is healthy? Healthy is just always with
respect and if you feel, and there'll be moments where I felt
disrespected, you know, but we, it was a healthy relationship
that I could bring that up and address it, you know, as I would
with my life partner, as I would with Lucy, as I would with my
team, you know. So I feel that it was a healthy
relationship because we had positive intent, open and
transparent communication, sometimes not as transparent as
I would have liked it, but in those moments, I could always
pick up the phone and have those conversations.
And we would have moments where things would sometimes get a
little heated, but you'd find you'd find your way back.
And I feel like the way that we've kind of concluded and
we're still continuing out has been super, super healthy
because, you know, the partners of these funds, the
conversations that I've had been hugely supportive.
And yeah, so I feel like those are healthy conversations and
that's that's a healthy relationship.
Yeah, I think so too. Yeah, yeah.
OK. So who were would it be fair to
call the investor? Investor state you worked with
allies? Yes, 100% yes.
OK, so who else were your allies on this journey?
We have all of our early customers, I would say anyone
that signed the contract and we have a legal team, always good
to have strong legal and tax advisors around you.
So they were our allies and we've had so many subject matter
experts along the journey that have come in to do various
sessions, whether it's go to market or whether it's product
related or whatever technical. So many people that have not
just had one coffee, but 1234 exited founders, founders and
then people like you Turkey on like you know, that have given
us stage time to tell our story. How important is that?
No, no, not to bang my own drama, but this is more more
like more in in general. How?
How important is that? Super important and I think what
comes next to that is the founders ability, at least one
of the founders abilities to tell that story.
And you know, Lucy doesn't talk a lot.
She builds, so I do most of the talking for both of us.
But if you had Lucy behind this podcast, I'd argue she'd do a
better job of answering the questions.
But at least one of them, and ideally the CEO is able to tell
that story because there's more than 9000 start-ups in the
Netherlands, but there's only a handful that get some kind of
spotlight. And you can argue that there's
a, there's a hell of a lot more that have great attraction, more
unique problem that aren't getting that.
And maybe because a they don't want it.
But those that would like it but don't get it might just come
down to do they know the right people to help get their story
across and are they able to articulate it well enough?
Just picking up on something you said, it's important to tell
your story. I recently had a guest on and
she said well for women that's much more difficult to do self
promo than it is for men. I see you not.
Do you agree were. I think there's I'm contrary to
that. I see a lot of women doing a lot
of self promotion on LinkedIn. Doesn't seem difficult for them
at all. Lucy and I always laugh at that,
but for for me over the last five years, it was very much
about getting the story of Kwan out there.
So not so much self promotion. And I think that's the
difference, right? You shouldn't be getting up
there to make your profile known.
You should be getting up there to further the mission of
whatever it is that you're. Standing to evangelize.
Exactly, exactly. Now it could be well-being.
It could be I know like there's another really good one
forgotten no else from the the sleep expert.
You know she she says so much valuable information and
insights relating to sleep. Yeah.
Is that self promotion? I argue it's definitely not It's
it's it's giving light and attention to a super important
topic and and else probably cringes at the the idea that she
needs to get up and do self promotion.
It is much more about furthering the mission of of what she
stands for, right? And so I think that's the if you
and also if you position it that way, it's much easier to do.
Yeah, because then you're doing someone else a favor.
Exactly. And you're not selling yourself,
but you're selling something that helps other people.
Exactly. Exactly because it because the
other the other way also makes me cringe and you see the people
that do it and it's just like yuck.
Yeah, but yeah, I hear you. Unless you're in entertainment
or whatever, but you know. Yeah, I think this has been a
terrific conversation. Two final questions.
So if I gave you a mic to inspire, I don't know, one
1000s, maybe thousands of female founders who want to build have
found a problem worth solving, where would you let them start?
What's the first step they should take?
Talk to people. If you have a problem that's
worth solving, do your research then and there.
Understand the problems space as deeply as possible and speak to
the people that are already in that problem space and and just
validate why the solution you think you're about to spend all
your time and energy years in has not already been done.
You know, like, and the, the, the initial research that we did
with Quan, which was like more like a year, just a less shy of
a year of conversations. I have like 300 conversations,
right? To better understand the
problems face to this day has put me in a good stead.
And so, and now with AI, you can get access to a hell of a lot
more information. So I'm actually not jealous at
all of founders that have to start now because I feel like
the starting block is that much harder.
You need to just be able to research a hell of a lot better
because things happen so much faster.
But know the space, speak to people and go deep into the
topic before you say I'm going to build something.
And how do you balance, let's say, talking to people as we do
right now versus doing AI research, which is like really
quick? Yeah, no, there's limitations
with AI. So I've noticed that myself and
I think most people have like when you ask questions, it's not
always correct. It misses things.
And so I would say you use some hand in hand, right?
So yeah, if I, if I was going to start something to do with how
to build an amazing table that does some fancy stuff, like I
would be like, OK, what's the fancy stuff?
And who's already created something like that?
And then find that person and ask them for a conversation.
But you could use AI to basically identify here are the
top 10 people, right? But but you wouldn't be like,
tell me what? Well, because there's all this
information that's in their heads or documented in a place
that is not accessible. And that's the reason why I
would do both. And even to this day, I've just
noticed in the last few months the speed at which we can work
and the speed at which we can do competitor analysis.
But I still fine when I speak to someone, which I do as part of
my current role, there are these aha moments that happen that
helps me improve my AI notes based on these human
conversations I'm having. So you've got a balance for two
is is is my take on it. Yeah, and, and use, let's say AI
for the inventory of the people to speak to and then get the
knowledge from them directly or maybe verify a couple of things
that you've been able to establish.
Because there's there's ways to to prompt at least GPT in a way
that it's sort of takes the bias and the hallucinations out.
I you, I, you. My go to thing is usually I ask
a question and then say and tell me why you answer this this way,
which is sort of a good way to that's a nice way, yeah, to to
at least let Cha chi PT think also.
But that's my tip. Use a paid version.
I was never going to mention this, but I recently transferred
things to our good friend, mutual friend Mikhil.
It doesn't take care of all the hallucination.
It does help you a lot in terms of the speed at which and also
the depth of discussions you can have so.
Amazing. Yeah, yeah, there's amazing
possibilities. Absolutely.
That's it. I rush up our thank you very
much for again an amazing conversation if people would
like to learn more about you or about true tribe.
Yeah. Where would you like to send
them? So connect with me on LinkedIn,
and I believe the True Tribe website is join truetribe.com.
So I'm just going to double check that exit.
Yeah, join truetribe.com. So yeah, I know that we're
hiring a few roles. So if you look on LinkedIn, you
can also see there that the team is now rapidly expanding.
Cool. So here's your call to action.
Thanks again. Really enjoyed this.
I hope the listeners did too. Probably they will.
If you did or did not, or if you have any questions, leave your
question in the comments. With that, thank you very much
for listening and until the next episode, keep being awesome.
Well, that's it for episode 122 of Women Disrupting Tech with
Hosha Brauer on scaling workplace well-being with impact
and integrity. Hosha.
And I hope that our conversation has given you inspiration for
your own entrepreneurial journey.
And if you have any questions for Hosha, please leave them on
Spotify, Apple or YouTube. I'll make sure you receive an
answer When you want to connect with Ahosha or learn more about
Guang or True Tribe. Please check out the links in
the show notes. And as usual, you can find show
notes at Women Disrupting Tech Find a link in the caption.
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