You're feeling a bit like Alice tumbling down the rabbit hole.
Aren't you ashamed? No, I'm not.
You think you are, lady. You take the blue pill, the
story ends. You wake up in your bed and
believe whatever you want. You take the red pill, you stay
in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.
I think. I'm entitled.
You want answers? What?
The truth? You can't handle the truth.
Hi, I'm Awake. Are you?
Let's go now to our new episode of The Unfiltered Rise with me,
Heidi Love. Hello and welcome to another
episode of The Unfiltered Rise. And today we have with us a new
guest. This is Rob from
mormonperfection.com. And how are you doing today?
I'm doing great. Thank you for asking and it's
nice to meet you, Heidi. Nice to meet you.
And we've been chatting for a moment and I just love that
we're able to like talk about all of our experiences coming
out of Mormonism, coming out of different things, learning.
So I am excited to hear your story today.
What do you got for me? Blow it.
Blow my mind. Blow my mind.
Oh my goodness. I could probably talk for an
hour. Do we have that long?
We have. However, we need to have.
OK. All right.
Well, so. I'll start with my, my, my story
of leaving the church. I well, I'll, I'll back up a
little bit. I joined when I was 17.
I was dating a girl in 9th grade.
She was a member of the church. Her whole family was.
She had an older sister who was married and had, you know,
several kids already. My home life wasn't receptive to
having the missionary discussions.
So we had them at her sister's house and and.
Some of the things that we did, I I got really involved in their
lives, all of them. We went to the beach together in
California, in the Bay areas where I grew up and all of that,
and we had, they got me really into genealogy and family
history and that was the hook that just, like, really got me
because my father, I lost my father when I was very, very
young and I wanted to know more about who he was and where I
came. What made me up as a human being
and to learn more about him and my ancestors kind of man, did I
take to that? I'm telling you, I love family
history and genealogy. It is my thing.
And right right now I'm actually working on a project for my
grandmother in law. We're doing, we're going to do a
wall chart that's going to be professionally made going to
order it. And we're also going to order a
book that's probably going to be around 320 to 350 pages.
She just turned 80. And so this, we know the book
will be passed down from generation to generation.
It'll be something cherished. And I just, I'm so excited to do
it all and Motherinlaw is paying for it.
I'm doing the work. It's a collaborative thing and
we're all putting in together to make it happen and it's going to
be quite a surprise. So anyway.
They have a saying that I I haven't heard, but in the
culture datum dunk them and dump them and that's what happened to
me, you know. So she, she tried to come on to
me. She was not in her.
She was not in the walk that I was in.
I took it serious. I was a convert.
I believed 100%. I believed in God, in Jesus
Christ before Mormonism, and this just like reclarified it,
made it so much more accurate in my mind at the time.
And I mean was was was Jesus doing a ventriloquist sack when
he was being baptized? When the voice came out of the
clouds and said, This is my beloved son and whom I'm well
pleased and. You know the the dove.
And then you know when he was on the cross, was he just praying?
Father, forgive them for they know not what they do and all
that stuff. You know, was he just praying to
himself that how did that all work?
And I now understand that better with the analogy of water or the
egg. They all have three parts, ice,
steam and liquid. Or egg shell, egg white, egg
yolk, but they're all one and the same, so.
I love that reference to the Trinity.
I think that's great for our listeners cuz maybe everybody
doesn't know that so. Yeah, I like to look at it.
I get real analytical. But like, you have the egg
shell, you have the egg white, you have the egg yolk, and these
things separate. Are not the egg, they're the egg
white, the egg yolk, the egg shell.
So you have and you put the word egg in front of each one of
those. God the Father, God the Son, God
the Holy Spirit. All three are God.
All three of the egg parts make up the egg.
You do not have an egg without one or the other, and and then
God holds the universe together. That's the egg shell.
The egg yolk is the life the eternal life that we get through
Jesus Christ and the egg white is what nourishes that life as
it grows. I'm getting chills and and so
that that that is our Holy Spirit nourishing our new walk
in Christ. That that egg white is our where
the yolk and the egg white is the Holy Spirit and.
And Jesus Christ. By Jesus Christ we become that
yoke. We can only become the yoke
through him that new life. I just.
Have to say, I am so grateful that you did not lose God in
your loss of Mormonism, because so many people do, and I am so
grateful to God that you that you captures so.
Yeah, I I that's one of the things that I've observed and I
I I've come to see a lot of is that.
People that are born and raised in the church all of their lives
I'd say, and and this is just a guess, I have no idea and I have
no factual figures to prove any of it.
But I'd say probably up where near 75% of people that are born
and raised in the church that leave the church end up becoming
agnostic or atheist because they they throw away all four books
because they have been taught that.
From the Mormons perspective, the Mormon Church's perspective
or the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints perspective
that that God was once a man, that he lived on an earth like
this earth. That he has a body as tangible
as man's, even though the Bible says God is a spirit and that
Jesus Christ is a spirit brother of Lucifer and as we talked
previously, our. Oh my goodness, I'm going to
lose my train of thought it. Happens, it'll come back.
If you tell someone that, hey, I know this guy named Rod that has
brown hair, brown eyes, dark complexion, is tall, no short
and super skinny, well that's a whole different rod.
That's not this Rod. And this Rod has blonde hair,
blue eyes. Chubby.
Tall and yeah so when you change the attributes of who God is or
what God is and change the attributes of Jesus Christ, it's
no longer the God and Jesus Christ of the Bible.
And to understand the Mormon interpretation of the Godhead in
how that that differs so greatly from the the Bible.
But the Mormon Church has put their twist on God and.
There are additional teachings outside of the Bible and so it
it's just so. Like I said when I when I left
the church, it was learning that I am not divine in nature, I am
fallen in nature and I cannot. I'm not a God in embryo that I
will not become a God someday, so.
Let me go back to my story leaving the church.
So I went to a state conference and there was a speaker that was
up at the podium and I don't remember who it was.
I I remember we had the guy that that told all the stories, the
lies. We had him come once to our
state conference at the in Boise, Boise ID and he he said
that. We should stay away from anti
Mormon literature and anti Mormon media.
I had never heard that term before.
There was no. Around what year was this?
So people know, like when you're ish, just ish.
Well, I left in writing on May 3rd, 1998.
In fact, my, my, my all of my documents are on my website.
My baptism, my ironic, my Melkhesic priesthoods, my
patriarchal blessing, my temple ceiling, my letters of
recommendation from Christian churches that I went and spoke
at after leaving, and all of that is available on my website
under documents. It's all there, loud and proud.
Didn't even white out stuff and block it out.
I'm terrible including the people that it's all there, so.
Anyway, you went full in, You went full.
In I was like, I'm going to you know, I don't want anybody to
doubt that I'm not who I say I am, that I have the experience
and here's the proof. Here's the documentation.
I lived it. I was sealed in the Boise
temple. But I'd say it was probably 97
because I left in May of 98 that this happened and.
This conference, this state conference.
And so he planted the seed. Because I didn't know what that
meant. I didn't know what anti Mormon
literature or anti Mormon media. I I never heard that.
I never even conceived that people would prosecute,
persecute whatever you want to call it, the church, or would,
you know, lay out the truth. In real life, that's what it is,
right? You know?
And so I went to invoice, I went to the local Family Christian
bookstore. That's where my roots are.
So yeah, let's go there, see what they got.
So we all go back to our roots, right?
Maybe there's something there about this that he's talking
about, I don't know. So I go there and lo and behold,
they had a whole video rental section.
Rental videotapes, mind you, because it's 98 and I.
Have my Blockbuster Card. We're close to the.
Thing so so I I go in and I start renting these films.
I rented Temple of the God Makers, God Makers one God
Makers 2. There's the God Makers and then
there's Temple of the God Makers.
And then I walk and then the final one that did it.
Was this film that's kind of hard to find.
I believe it was done by Jeremiah Films.
It's called The Mormon Dilemma. And there is this Christian man
that lives next door to this mock Mormon couple in the in a
nice neighborhood. And they film the neighborhood a
little bit too. And everything.
And his church, he's a Christian.
They're Mormon. His church is putting on this
video. They're going to show the
cartoon segment from the God Maker.
So just the cartoon segment. And they are saying it's full of
half truths and half lies and mixed, you know, all this stuff.
And it's not correct and it's not accurate.
It's like, well, I'd love for you to show me.
I'd love for you to that to me. So he came over later that
evening and they watched the video and they kept pausing it
in. While you're watching this
video, they kept pausing the video they're watching to check
sources. And so they have, you know, of
course, they're Mormons. So they had their library of
Mormon publications and books and they went and got them and
brought them back and they went through it and and found that it
is in the the writings of the church.
These are books published by the Church and.
This is all things that are taught.
So that cartoon, although it does seem to be exaggerated,
embellished, and all of that, well, it's a.
Production So it is. On point accurate 100%.
And he felt they watched that. After they're done watching it,
they sit around the dining room table and he starts going over
scriptures with him with them. Isaiah 434445 Multiple times God
is is saying through his prophet Isaiah I am God.
There is no other God I know. Not any.
None before me and none after me.
Knowing my Bible, the scripture. At the time when I made my video
on my on my YouTube and on my on TikTok and stuff, I I thought it
was in Revelation. But it's actually I don't
remember now. Dang it.
But anyway, it's a scripture that says when Christ returns,
if you don't accept him as your Lord and Savior, that he will
say, depart for me, you workers of iniquity.
For I know you not, and forgive me that I speak in King James,
not I will never do MIV. Sorry, but that's me.
I'm a very King James. NRSVI actually really like the
old Catholic Bible. But NRSV because, well, because
I believe they're all pertinent, but I know it.
It gets sticky for theology and theologists there but.
Like the American Standard version too, it replaces Lord
with Jehovah, where it's appropriate, where it's all
capital letters, all caps. Yeah, so anyway.
So my brain says depart for me, workers of inequity for I know
you. Not that part of that verse,
this. I'm just sitting my my third
wife is at work. I'm home alone and I'm watching
this and tears are rolling down my face because this verse
popped in my head while I was watching this where it says I
know not any, none before me and none after me.
I know not any. I know you not.
If I believed that I was going to become a God someday, then he
was going to say I know you not when he returns because that's
not what the word says. I know not any.
And so that very moment with that video, that was the final
thing that broke the straw or broke the shelf or whatever you
want to call it. I hate that term.
Broke the shelf because everybody uses it.
And and but anyway, it broke mine.
And I was like my wife was going to be coming home from work and
I didn't know how I was going to tell her, but I did and she was.
She said, Rod, I'll go wherever you go.
And we started attending a church in Meridian ID called the
Church of God 7th day. Not 7th Day Adventist.
I wouldn't accept another fallen prophet.
Ellen White is a false prophet, just as Joseph Smith was.
But the Mormon Church likes to call Sunday the Sabbath a lot,
and I despise that because it is not the Sabbath and it's you can
call it the Lord's Day if you want, but it was Constantine in
the Roman Catholic Church that changed the day of worship.
From Saturday to Sunday to Christianize the pagans.
Meanwhile, pagans brought their ways, their rituals, their
ceremonies, their things into Christianity, like Easter,
Ishtar and Christmas and the IT says in Joe or Jeremiah, one of
the J books. Saturnalia was Christmas yes,
not to be Saturnalia. And go into the woods and chop
the tree down with the axe and fix it so it stands upright and
deck it with silver and gold. That Christmas show we watched
when we were kids with the claymation or the whatever stops
silver and gold. Silver, you know.
Yeah. I don't go out and chop a tree
down anymore. I did.
I have a few times when I lived in Idaho at the Forest Service
and went and did it. But it's a plastic tree now.
But still it's the significance of it.
But I'm not worshipping the tree, I'm not worshipping the
the the balls that are hung on the tree, which is what it
represented and all that. But for a long time I did get
away from that. I I literally would set up a a
Manger scene on a table and we would with a cloth over the
table like an end table and we would put our gifts around.
The, the, the, the Manger, because the Wiseman brought
gifts. He was like 12 and.
Yeah. But.
That's actually great because I mean, I I like you After, after
you get the full knowledge of everything, you step back and
go, well, what do you do with this?
You know, like, do you cancel Christmas?
Do you cancel everything? Do you cancel?
Do not participate. Do not.
And then I feel like that's really legalistic.
And then I'm like that I don't want to be a Saturn worshipper
or Ishtar worshipper. And then you have to go through
it in your mind and get to some kind of sounds like you did the
same thing. Get to some balance.
You know the scripture is that they were shepherds in the field
watching their flocks by night. It snows in Jerusalem, right?
It wasn't. December when this happened.
December it was tax season. Yes, it.
Was tax season and and and December is December 25th is the
birth of a Pagan God. So there's paganism again coming
into Christianity and and now we all believe it and do it.
But anyway so she came home we left we went to the Church of
God. 7th day. I'm still at this point and even
in Spanish Saturday is pronounced Sabado.
It sounds like Saba and. I I today I I would probably
lean more towards being Messianic, believing that all of
the original feasts and feasts and holidays are holy days and
Sabbaths multiple. Not just Sunday.
Saturday, Saturday are where a rehearsal of things to come,
even Jesus Christ himself rested in the tomb on the Sabbath.
Yeah, think about that. So.
And you also don't get 3 days and three nights in the belly of
a well, as Jonah was in the belly of a well with the
Christian version of of the Sunday sunrise, Easter sunrise
service, the day Christ rose from the dead.
You don't get 3 days and three nights.
Sorry it doesn't work. But anyway.
Psychla on that one, yeah, I I began looking at the temple
ceremony and what I had done in the temple, which I I come with
broken heart and on my knees with my hands clasped, asking
for God's forgiveness because I made oaths and covenants to a
false God. A God that is not the God of the
Bible is not the Jesus Christ of the Bible.
I made oaths and covenants. Mind you, I went August of 90
through the temple. This was after they had removed
the bloody oaths from the temple in April of 90, where you cut
your stomach open or cut your throat or pulled out your heart.
In representation, everyone just, I had a person ask me in
the last podcast, he said. Like, I'm like, no, no, no, not
really. In representation.
You did a hand motion that indicates that, but you didn't.
Never. Actually, there was nothing like
that. I remember.
Side note, I remember at the Boise Temple, mind you, the
temple's here and the church is here and there's a parking lot
in between for the church. And then you drive past all of
that and you go in the back. Here is where the parking lot is
for the temple. Well along this side of the
temple there was a semi truck part and it was some company.
I don't remember the name of the company, but it was a casket
company and it said basket company on the side of the semi
truck. And what did orbits do in the
temple? Baptism.
Oh my gosh, yeah, I I I wish I had a camera and had taken a
picture of that because that was just a moment that was too
ironic. But anyway, back to what I was
saying. So when I went through the
temple and I I worked at the time, I don't know, I I don't
think at this point. When I left the church I was
working somewhere else. But once I moved to Idaho from
from California to Boise, I was 21 and and I joined the church
when I was 17 in the Bay Area, baptized in the Napa State
Center, Napa, CA and I got a job.
I worked for Sizzler restaurant and you'll know what that is.
Cuz you're in Utah. I do.
Sizzler has the most
magnificent, or at least they did when they existed.
Most of them have gone out of business, but magnificent.
I think we still have one left and I worked on the salad bar.
There was one in Provo and I worked on the salad bar and they
were going to build 1 identical to the one in Provo near our new
mall in Boise, ID and they wanted to get all the people
trained for a higher volume restaurant.
So they sent us to Provo, to the store that was the same
footprint but flip-flopped from the footprint of the new store.
And I got to go to Provo, UT all expenses paid by the by Sizzler
restaurant. We have a hotel paid for two
meals a day, one of them at the restaurant, one of them
somewhere else, submit our receipts, get reimbursed, all
that. But I took that opportunity on
my days off to go to Salt Lake City and it was amazing.
And I'm taking pictures with my camera of all these upside down
stars that are all over the temple.
They're inverted stars over every window of the the point
pointing down instead of up and over the doorways.
The big beautiful Salt Lake Temple doorways.
The the, the the eagle arch went over the road.
I don't know if it's still there, Okay.
And then in the Northwestern visitor center where the crisis
statue was, which has now been leveled, it's gone with the with
what they're doing with the with the building up the, the Salt
Lake Temple in case of an earthquake.
As you know, Angel Marone, I lost his trumpet.
Anyway, it fell out in some earthquake they had there and
they're like, oh, we better do something.
Things are going to fall off. So they're showing that up real
good. So it'll last forever.
And so anyway the Northwestern visitor center crisis statue
room, there was these windows that just basically curved that
looked out over the Tabernacle. And if you look to the left you
would see up in the over here you would see the temple.
And then of course on the other side of the Tabernacle is the
assembly hall and all of that and another visitor center on
the other corner, literally diagonally or Kitty corner from
this visitor center and in front of that window where these
planter boxes and their bench, there was benches in front of
the planter boxes. So it it hit it kind of I.
Have a photo of this. I have a photo.
I literally pulled the plant the the benches away away from the
planter box so I can take a picture of it.
And every other recessed panel of this planter box has an
inverted star in it. There are no symbol.
Mormons don't wear crosses. You won't find a cross in a
Mormon home. You won't see it on the temple.
You won't see it on the church. You won't see it inside any of
those buildings either. But here you have the inverted
star, the pentagram, all over Salt Lake, the beehive symbol,
which they'll say is the state symbol.
It represents industry, but in reality it came from the Masonic
Lodge. And so all of this has a cultic
and Pagan roots in it. And then they rebuilt the Navu
Temple. Oh my gosh, those windows, When
I saw just the frame of the window that was the inverted
star. And I I it's just A-frame.
It doesn't have the windows, the red and blue windows that they
put in it. I was like, Oh my gosh.
And then they put them up and there's a circle in the concrete
or the asphalt or not asphalt granite around it and another
and they're all in the salt, the, the Navu Temple with the
point pointing down. And then they have the symbol of
Bale, the sun God, and that's on the Salt Lake Temple too, the
the symbol of the sun. It's not as characteristic
character, like a character drawing not a character.
It's not as characteristic as the ones on the Salt Lake Temple
but it's it's cartoonish almost with these horns that it's
holding is Oh yeah it's like on the Navu temple and then of
course the the the symbol of the moon in all its phases on the on
the Salt Lake Temple and where where did all this come from
and. Astrology on the Washington, DC
Temple. They have like the Big Dipper
and the Little Dipper, but hidden inside of it is the Seal
of Solomon. It's quite interesting.
I'll show you. It's in one of my videos, but
I'll send it to you later. But it was very when I started
seeing like what you were seeing, you step back and go,
well, what's going on, you know? Why are we doing?
What does this mean for us? Because I didn't know.
I don't know about you, but I didn't know what a Mason was
until a few years ago. So for me, this was huge, you
know, Well, and then I heard, you know, the defense from the
Mormon churches, and I get it, but you've got to see the other
side of it. And the yes under in all capital
letters underline three times the beauty, and the Mormon
Church doesn't, and that is the symbol of the cross.
I realized that it may not have been originally adopted by
Christianity. I think the fish symbol was
actually adopted first because they had to be secret about they
weren't allowed to worship and they use the symbol of the fish
instead as a way to kind of hide it.
I think they that people had there was book burnings and they
had to have you know the church services in basements and
secluded places and all of that. And anyway, so I I saw all of
this and then I went through the temple and I compared all of
this and I go through the temple ceremony and I'm in on every
temple carved in granite or stone or whatever it's made out
of is holiness to the Lord, the House of the Lord.
This is supposed to be a small piece of heaven on earth, yet
they have locks on the lockers when you change your clothes
because you have to go through a temple recommend interview twice
with this Bishop Anna, State president and asked if you are
honest and loyal with your fellow man.
And there's locks on the lockers.
You wear a key and safety pin to your clothes that you walk
around with until you get back to your locker at the end of
your session. So anyway, I was like, what?
Is that why I shouldn't have to have this?
I don't understand why I'm having to lock my stuff up in
the House of the Lord. Is that what heaven's going to
be like? We're going to need a lot of
keys. So so I'm going to the temple
ceremony and I'm watching the the creation ceremony and mind
you this is the post April 1990 ceremony and the videos on my
website Mormon Perfection under Temples.
Tabs are at the top. Go to temples and click on the
temple to enter. But be careful anyway.
Make sure you have your recommends.
Yes, yes, we'll. We'll stand it at the door.
So anyway. And the the videos there, the
audio's there. The the script is there.
It's all there. And so Adam and Eve are in the
garden and they're looking at all the plant life, you know,
and everything. And and Lucifer introduces
himself. He says he comes into the
picture and he says, well, Adam, you have a new world here.
And then Adam says a new world. Yes, the new world pattern after
the old one where we used to live.
And Adam said, I know nothing of any of any other world.
Oh, I see. Your eyes are not opened.
You have forgotten everything. You must eat some of the fruit
of that tree. And Lucifer, He pulls the tree,
pulls an apple from the tree, or whatever fruit it is.
Adam, here is some of this fruit.
It will make you wise. I will not partake of that
fruit. Father told me that in the day I
should partake of it, I should surely die.
You shall not surely die, but you shall be as the gods plural,
knowing, good and evil. I will not partake of it.
Oh, you will not. We shall see.
And then he goes to Eve, presents the whole story to her
and and here's some of that fruit of that tree.
It will make you wise. It is delicious to the taste and
very desirable. And Eve says, who are you?
I am your brother. Remember, Lucifer is the spirit
brother of Jesus, and he's our spirit brother too.
Didn't that mean? Anyway, you and my brother and
come here to persuade me to disobey your disobey father?
Is that what all good brothers do anyway?
Is there any other way? There is no other way.
Then I will partake. He takes the fruit from Lucifer
and bites it and now go and get Adam to partake.
So then Eve goes and gets Adam to partake, and he does it and
all that and and then I'm sorry, I'm.
I'm reading along because I don't want to make a mistake.
So thou art Lucifer, one who has cast out a father's presence for
rebellion. Yes, you are beginning to see
already. That's Lucifer.
Adam says this is really important here.
Adam says, what is that apron you have on?
And Lucifer reaches down and pulls up his cloak and he says
it is an emblem of my powers and priesthoods, plural.
There's only one religion that claims multiple priesthoods.
The Catholic Church claims a priesthood.
A priesthood. The Mormon church claims the
ironic and the malt hesitate priesthood.
It is the only church on earth. It claims more than one.
Even the Satanic church claims one.
So he says it's an emblem of his powers and priesthood.
And then Adam says, I am looking for Father to come down to give
us further instructions. Oh, you were looking for Father
to come down, are you? And then Elohim, you hear the
voice in the speakers in the temple in the ceremony vibe, you
know, reverberate in the speakers says it's it's Elohim
speaking to Jehovah who is Jesus, and Elohim being God, the
Father Jehovah. We promised Adam and Eve that we
would visit them and and give them the give them further
instructions. Come, let us go down and Jehovah
says we will go down Elohim And then Adam says, I hear their
voices they are coming. And Lucifer says see you are
naked. Take some fig leaves and make
you aprons. They took this out of the 2023
version. See you are naked.
Take some fig leaves and make you aprons.
Father will see your nakedness. Quick, hide.
Come, let us hide. The film stops.
If they take it out, what do they do now for?
I'll have to switch. I'll have to switch screens, but
I want to continue. You can go to that.
So then they put on the build stops and the speaker narrates
and says, brothers and sisters, put on your aprons.
Who told Adam and Eve to put on their aprons to make fig leaf.
Make sow fig Leafs together to make aprons to cover their
nakedness. Who was it?
It was Lucifer. Why are we following his
commandment? And doing what?
Lucifer's in the House of the Lord.
We're going to still follow him, Okay.
All right, so we follow him. We put on these green Figley
papers later to take them off and put robes on, and then put
the Figley paper on back on over it.
And we do all of that. And you know, God and Jesus come
down, or Elohim and Jehovah come down.
Not to be confused with God and Jesus of the Bible.
Sorry, I probably should say Elohim and Jehovah anyway, it's
just words. So Elohim, you know, calls out
Adam. Adam, where art thou?
And Adam says, I heard your voice and hid myself because I
was naked. And Elohim says, Who told thee
that thou was naked? Hast thou partaken of the fruit
of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, which we commanded you
thee not to partake the woman that get this is where he passes
the buck. The woman thou gavest me, and
commanded always her fault, commanded that she should remain
with me, gave me of the fruit of the tree, and I did eat Eve.
What has this that thou hast done?
This is Elohim speaking. And now Eve passes the buck.
Eve says the serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.
Lucifer. What hast thou been doing here?
I've been doing that which has been done in other worlds.
And so anyway, it goes on and on and they're it.
Does it? Does go on and on, doesn't it?
I'm not going to go through all that.
But the point is, is that God rejects what man made to cover
his sin and replaces it with coats of skin.
Where most people in Christianity don't get this, and
and I mean Christianity, not just Mormonism, but that was the
first animal sacrifice for man's sin.
God had to kill animals for our sin to provide those coats of
skin. It's so beautiful and and gross
too. But anyway.
But good. But yeah, yeah, yeah.
And so he cast them out into the lone and dreary world or the OR
the world we live in, cast out of the garden.
Terror women, A flaming sword put to block the garden of Eden
so they can't ever come back. And they go out into the lone
and dreary world. And Adam builds an altar.
And at this altar, he they they kneel at the altar and they're
they're doing the whole, oh God, here are the words of my mouth.
Oh God 3 * 3 and out from the bushes behind this is the BAU
over here. But I thought we were doing, you
know, crime scene investigation. Not crime scene investigation
but behavioral analysis. So anyway, oh God, hear the
words my mouth. This man comes walking out from
the bushes, the the, the trees and shrubbery and all that
behind comes out and he says, I hear you.
What is it that you want? And they look at him and they're
like, who are you? They have seemed to forgotten, I
guess their memories were white or or whatever, because he's the
same man. It was back in the garden,
tempting them to eat the apple or the fruit of knowledge or
whatever. And he says, who are you?
And Adam? And Lucifer says, I am the God
of this world, oh God, here are the words of my mouth.
And who comes? Not God, not Jesus, not the Holy
Spirit, not an Angel, but Lucifer.
Well, and then I blew your mind when I said earlier we were
talking and I said you gotta hear this because they changed
it and they used to say this was a Nokian language and we used to
say Pele L. Well, it actually was Hebrew and
it and it was translatable later because now we can look up the
symbols and do all that and find out.
So too many people found themselves.
Of course they changed it, but it means, oh false.
God, hear my words. Wow.
Yeah. It's like it it it that one that
was accurate. It's true, I mean.
Honestly, if you want to practice absolute truth and
Mormonism, the break off of the Warren Jess plan is actually
more doctrinally correct, as in the original Book of Mormon
doctrine. Do I recommend that?
No. None of it's good, but they
actually the the Warren Jess group.
Keep with what he actually said. But with all the polygony and
all the things and lots of weird stuff.
But if you go back to that and one of the main people that I
follow, and I know you follow him because you reposted his
videos, Bishop Earl, he went over the original Book of Mormon
and that's why he got out, because they had to do something
on the higher ups. He was on the up and up, you
know, and they said, can you review this or do something?
And he said, Oh yeah, then he got done and left the church,
which I was like. I mean, that speaks a lot.
You know, when you get a manuscript of The Real Deal and
they ask you to help translate some things and you leave,
that's. I mean that speaks.
So yeah, it does the when I when I left the church, well, let me
go back. So I had learned all these
secret handshakes, you know, and all of that and the names of all
the secret handshakes and and went through the veil and all of
that stuff. And it's weird that the 2nd
token of the Malkesic priesthood, the Patriarchal grip
or sure sign of the nail, is not really a name.
It's more like a phrase. It's very long.
I dirty it up and I changed the word one word, but I'm not going
to do that here. But but the priesthood equals a
very well dominated church, a very chauvinistic, misogynistic
church. And even when you look at the
church headquarters, it's got two globes on either side with a
tall, erect thing in the middle that goes all the way up.
What does that look like to you? Come on, anyway.
And also they in the in the church, not only do they kind of
push women down. But they elevate the man to like
such a high level that we can never be like, I mean, I guess
they changed it, but we had to veil our faces because we
weren't even worthy, you know? And that that was so weird to
me. All of it was.
So I don't know how you felt because, but this is a great
question for you because as a Christian, you were already a
Christian and I. I didn't go to another church,
but I found God on my own because my life was so hard and
I never felt God there. I felt scared, alone, freaked
out, panicky. When I was in the temple, I was
terrified afterward. I don't know how you felt, but
it never got better. I felt uncomfortable because I
didn't understand how I grew up and what I believed from my
upbringing in Christianity, attending, you know, my mom,
Pentecostal. She was in a choir.
They, they made an album back in San Francisco.
They went to San Francisco. The whole choir did Edwin
Hawkins and Andre Crouch, big gospel names.
They helped produce the album in San Francisco with my mom's
church and the choir that went from Valle, my hometown, to San
Francisco. And I was in my grand my
grandfather went to the same Pentecostal church, But my
grandmother, they were a little bit too much for her.
And so she went to the Assembly of God, which is still
Pentecostal but way toned down. And I was in the Royal Rangers,
which is like Boy Scouts of America, but from a different
religion, but still almost the same year and badges all that
stuff anyway. And I went to a private Baptist
school from first grade through 7th grade.
And so when I went through the temple, that's why I had so many
questions because until that moment, you know that the whole
thing I was telling you about with, you know, Jesus doing the
ventriloquist act when he's being baptized and and on the
cross praying to himself up in heaven, you know, and all of
this stuff, it the Mormon definition gave me clarity to
understanding God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit being all three
separate individual beings. Well now the baptism of Jesus
and the voice thundering out of heaven made sense to me.
The the him praying while on the cross now makes sense to me.
It didn't make sense before. There was things that I didn't
comprehend. I do comprehend as a Christian
now, and not being, but at that. Time in that time frame, in that
time frame, in that moment it was like.
Well and they they sucked you in and especially the convert.
So you'll my exhusband was a convert.
They suck you in because they give you OK you are lacking your
generational stuff. They got you into you know
genealogy. They make you feel like you're
in a family. They make you feel like, OK,
families are forever. Your dad had passed away, so
that gave you like, hope. And I feel like they play on
these really good things. Like even I have a wonderful
memories of Primary. I have wonderful memories of
Girls camp. I have all these great memories
of community like you were talking about.
But when you get to the level where it's going to be the best
day of your life today, you're going to the temple.
This is the top. We've been singing songs about
this since I was four years old, so I'm going to go to the temple
today and then. When?
Yes. And when I got there, I'm going,
What the hell is going on? And I never felt the same again.
Never. I tell you the the the whole
thing was just creepy. And of course, when I when I
first went, this was before they changed this to now I had to,
you know, do most of the stuff for myself first before.
So you get baptized in the church building and the the
baptisms that happen in the temple are for dead and dead
only, not for living people. And you just basically baptized
for and in behalf of someone else that has passed.
And anyway, not to go into all that, but the initiatory, the
Washington anointing, it's called both things.
It's called the initiatory work or the BAP, the Washington
anointing. I had to go.
I had to 1st off, we didn't have a lot of money and I didn't have
my own temple clothes so we had to rent the packet from a rental
desk that they had and I believe I had to rent my white clothes
too. I didn't even have like white
slacks. I had a white button up shirt
but didn't have the slippers, socks, all that stuff.
Had to rent it all. And I'm like, this feels wrong
that I'm having to pay money in the temple because what does
that take me back to the Bible? The.
World and the world Temple. The money changers and the
temple and Jesus throwing the tables over.
And what are we doing? We're exchanging money in the
temple. This should.
This should be from the grace of God and the.
Donations, yeah. And it's not like they don't
receive 10% of everyone's income.
It's not like they couldn't. I'm not saying that if you
don't, if you have the money to buy your own, great.
But I mean, what about charity? What about what?
What's going on with charity? They make tons of money.
That's a racket. That is a racket because they
have the only patents, the only everything, on not only our
magical underwear, but the temple clothes and everything,
and you have to go to one specific place to get them.
And then after all that, here's the better part, people.
It becomes like a bougie thing, like if you buy this bag, funny
enough called symbol symbols is the fancy Mormon bags I'm like
to carry your temple clothes in now.
I mean, it became like, who has the Louis Vuitton of the temple
clothes? It was very, very materialistic.
I felt, yeah. And and we finally did get our
own temple closed. We finally did buy them And it
it was like almost a sacrifice to to.
Yeah. And and then the the Mormon
underwear, you know, the garments that we had to buy.
So like in Boise, in the Overland Park Shopping Center
was Deseret Book. And on the side of the building
was the Beehive Clothing Center. And that's where we would go in
to buy temple clothes and garments.
The women's were in the pink and the boys were in the blue and
and you and they come in many different styles.
You can get the silky satin kind, You can get the cotton,
you can get the mesh, you can get the thermal.
And I was like, oh, wow, OK And so and we are told that this is
supposed to be like a shielded protection against the power of
the destroyer and no. And that it will protect us from
harm and danger and evil and all that stuff.
But we can't wear it in water because Satan is power over
water and we can't wear it. We shouldn't wear it exercising.
And you know and then you know you, you some people take it
super far within like room and go to the shower.
Like literally like you put you're supposed to put the right
leg in first and and that's how and and people will like
literally have them right outside the shower to like not
even step out of the shower and put their right leg in right
away and and your right arm goes in first to the tshirt the top
part and and I don't know if you've heard about all that or
did it or remember any of that or whatever.
That is the one most hideous thing I do not miss.
I was 8 1/2 months pregnant when I went through and I got the
maternity garments and I Oh my gosh, and I was so hot.
And they don't make them if you're a thicker girl, which I
am. But I'm not thick everywhere.
I only have big hips and so I have the small waist.
Yeah, because I have the small waist.
And so I'm like these don't fit. These don't.
Even when I was pregnant. And then I have a short rise,
even though I'm really tall, so it's all over the place.
I could never get him to fit right.
And I was so miserable because I don't have a thyroid, because I
have thyroid cancer and I I get so hot, so fast.
And they just don't care. I mean, you got to wear them.
You got to wear them and that's that.
Top it off for women. You you were told that the
garment had to be next to your skin.
Yes, you have to put your. Bra over the top.
The bra on over the top of this clothing.
Not like you would. Yeah, and how and.
Then when it's the girl time of the month, it's even worse.
Yeah, I. Can't.
It's hideous. It was just the worst.
I I remember coming out. I was already not.
I was not attractive in my 20s. I wasn't.
I I I was heavy. I was.
Uncomfortable. I didn't know about my thyroid
thing yet, so I was really getting big and I didn't know
why and all these things. So I was probably the most
miserable human I'd ever been when I was at the top of my
game. The top, you know it's just.
I I don't know. And it's almost a status thing.
I feel like you're so like if you go to church, even if you
only went to the temple one time in your whole entire life and
you never went back, boy, you were a temple Mormon.
You got the Mormon underwear on. You're more special, You know,
you're better than everybody else.
And it makes people feel that way And my temple recommend
interview with our Bishop he on the hold on when when I went to
my temple recommend interview with my Bishop and and here is
my last recommend I had one of these fancy fancy cards this is
from Boise the Boise ID and here's my recommend has my name
on it and and there's the other side of it and and then the the
person I told you in our pre meeting that paid for my round
trip plane ticket to go to the Columbia SC temple open house
she sent me her recommend too wow yeah.
And so you can see it. There you go.
Yeah, she. Funny, I don't think I I think I
got rid of all mine. I saved everything.
And then I went to the thrift store and I bought, I bought
scriptures. Nobody else's name's on it.
But this is the Bible. And then I have the triple
combination and then I have the quad.
If you didn't have the quad, you weren't cool.
I know it's it was all about money.
It was, I don't know, we got ours and it got the Roy family
in that box from the front. And my my first life, my son's
mother, she left me for another man and she took that Bible that
that the scriptures and threw them in the the coat closet by
the front door, took the the scriptures and the temple
picture off the wall and threw them in the closet and the glass
broke on the temple picture. And it was a big one.
It was a big one of the boys temple.
And I was like why? I didn't understand what was
going on. She was born and raised in the
church. She's also not.
She's an inactive member. I don't think she ever went
through the steps of having her name taken off the records, but
whatever. So anyway, in the top corner of
my recommend, this one didn't do it, but my very first recommend,
he had us commit to how many times we could go to the we
would go to the temple, and at that time they were only good
for a year. You can see on this one, it was
issued in 97, it expired in 98 and so yeah.
Mine was here. Now they're two years, I think,
but we wrote in the top corner, right above the serial number
here on the side. How many times you would go, how
many times we would go? And he was like 3-6 times for
the year and I was like, no, we can go at least once a month.
And so he wrote 12 up in the corner.
I think we doubled or tripled that because we go more than
once a month. Friday was fun in the Boise
Temple. When you go down, when you go in
the entrance and you go to the left, like you're going to the
baptismal. Before you get to the baptismal,
there's stairs that go downstairs and there's a
cafeteria down there and they serve prime rib on Friday night.
And all the food at the cafeterias that cost again
exchange money in the temple anyway.
And so great date night, you take your work to the temple and
you go do work for the dad. Go through endowments or a
ceiling or washing an anointing session, whatever session you
want. Gosh, then you go have dinner
together have primary of. That's romantic with your jammy.
Your Jesus Jammy's on. Yes, this jammy's my my
underwear because that's what I've been.
So I was like in the. I wear those, yeah.
And I was very conscious about that, you know, that was Bill
like, to not let anyone ever see them because the Gentile was
not. We weren't allowed to let other
people see them. They were to be hidden and
covered at all times. And I'll never forget, I went
over to a member's house and I'm friends with her now on
Facebook. The daughter, her name is
Nicole, and we met up on one of the Facebook groups, or TikTok,
I'm not sure which. But Oh my gosh, it's been like
years. Like, I'm 57 and she's like,
this was back when I was, you know, in my 20s and and so we
found each other. And she's a Christian too.
She left the church. Yeah, it's amazing.
But so many of us have since since the Internet.
I feel like they've really struggled to keep the the bottle
on tight. And then they came out with that
whole. Trust your fake.
Don't trust your fears thing and don't look up things.
And yes, doubt your doubts, doubts.
Don't be so. But it's she lived around the
corner from me our house. And our house was literally.
Let me let me give you this. The church Chapel building.
The address was 1111 S Cole Rd. in Boise, ID.
I'm sure it still is. My address was 1114 S Cole Rd.
right across the temple. That are the angle shot.
That's like the front and the side of the temple were taken
from my driveway on a tripod by many people.
Several time anyway. So I went over to her house and
her dad answered the door and he was wearing his garment top and
nothing, you know, of course he had bottoms something.
On yeah, like shorts or something.
On. But, you know, just like a dude
would wear, like, his jeans or his shorts.
Like you know everyday, everyday jeans or everyday shorts that
you in public. He would he answered the door
and his T-shirt, but it was his garment T-shirt.
Here's his compass and square and his rule embroidered over,
you know his parts and symbols and everything.
You know the the the embroidered compass and square, the Masonic
symbols. And I could see it and I was
like, how did you know that I wasn't a member or that I was a
member I mean and I I didn't say anything to him.
I kept myself quiet. But I was like that is not
that's that's so that is social do that and.
So many rules. So many rules.
Not only that, but the judgment that you develop as a Mormon
Beings, you know, judge not, lest you be judged yet down your
nose at regular, common, everyday folks.
If they were drinking a cup of coffee, let alone smoking a
cigarette or, you know, anything else, it was like you're you're.
Such a dinner, the girl wearing a sun dress or you know.
Her shoulders exposed. I still get that I want
sundresses or my jam, and I still live in Utah.
Boy, do I get the I get the evil, the evil stir.
I smile. I'm like, make sure they see my
tattoo or whatever. Yeah, with your tattoos.
I saw that with my crucifix on my hand.
Yeah, so my cross. When I left after all that, I I
had to break all those oats and covenants and everything, and I
developed a website and all of that, and it was called at the
time it was called Helping mormons.org and I stayed with
that for a long time and that was the website
addresshelpingmormons.org. But the whole name of the, at
the time I called it Administry. I don't like to call it that
now. I just called it an outreach,
but it's still kind of a ministry, I guess.
It's fine because I feel pulled and driven again.
Thank you God to do it again. To get on the bandwagon again.
And so praise God, Praise God that you can help people because
how how many of us come out and just feel so like your family
goes against you, like even if they don't to your face.
But mine did. Mine sued me and tried to take
my kids and all this crazy stuff.
So then. Even if if that doesn't happen
to you, they don't treat you the same ever.
Again, none of that with the family stuff happened to me
because I was the only member of my family.
But I did other people, yeah, that you're helping me.
My mom's side of my family's in California.
My dad's side of my family's in Michigan.
I moved with my best friend Keith from California to Boise.
All I knew was him, and then him and I had a falling apart, a
falling away, or whatever you want to call it, falling out.
That's the word, falling out. And so I'm in this state where I
know nobody. I have no family, I have nobody
but the church. And you know, I wasn't very
active at the time when I first got to Boise.
But the house I ended up, we looked.
I looked and looked and looked at houses with my realtor.
And we had exhausted everything. And then one day he called me
up. Hey, Rod, this house just came
on the market. You got to go with me.
We got to go see it. Nobody has seen it yet.
I'm like, OK, let's go. So we went to go look at it.
And lo and behold, it was right across the street from the
temple in the church. And I was like, it's a son God
where I'm supposed to be. Well, because.
Tell me to get back in church because, you know, as a Mormon,
how many times is it a sign or a feeling or something?
Everything. Is that everything.
So yeah. So I did.
I did end up getting, you know, when I met my first wife.
She was a born and raised member of the church and I corrupted
her at first because I wasn't back on.
I wasn't back on track yet and she got kicked out of her
parents home. She was 18, but she was still in
high school and her senior year. Called me like it 3:00 in the
morning crying and told me to come get her and all of her
stuff. And I did.
And we lived together in sin, and we eventually made amends
with her mom and dad, and we had our wedding in her mom and dad's
backyard with my, our Bishop for our location.
Because it's very. Segregated with it's divided up
a lot like school districts where if you live on one side of
the road you have to go to this ward.
If you live on this side of the road you have to go to a
different ward. And so anyway our Bishop married
us in her mom and dad's backyard and and then exactly a year to
the date we were sealed in the Boise temple for time and all
eternity. So we got we got married August
the 4th, my mother's birthday. 19. 80.
Nine and August the 4th of 90 we got sealed in the temple and we
have been trying during that whole year of you know of now
living legal married couple have a child and nothing was.
Happening, you know, and and she went to the doctor.
I went to the doctor. Like and anyway so.
When we were kneeling across the.
Altar and I thought. This was so special and so
testimony building Anyway, we dealed across the altar.
Neither one of us knew. She was about two to three weeks
pregnant with our son, my son, Daniel.
God is. My judge was, which is what
Daniel means. Was in the temple with us when
we got sealed for time and all eternity.
I thought that was special. That was the case with me as
well. I was.
He was a convert. Yes, he was a convert.
And he was Catholic and Irish. His parents still hate me for
that. I don't blame him.
I'm sorry. Anyways, we were married civilly
because of the whole I was young and we were fooling around,
whatever. And so then we got married by
the Bishop in the Relief Society room, blah blah blah.
And then we turned around and we had got pregnant later.
And we had my daughter. I was like probably 8 months
pregnant at the time we went through so.
So she was there too. Yep, she.
Was her name is. Her name is Celeste, so you
didn't have to celestial Kingdom.
Anyway. You didn't have to.
You didn't have to bring her back to the temple to have her
no oven it. Yeah, because she was.
Here's the messed up part. So later in my life I go to get
remarried and he joins the church and everything.
And I said, hey, do you do we need to have my son seal to us?
Because he was getting ready to go through and they said, Oh no,
it's just already done. And I said no because he's he,
he's not his son. My exhusband, It's my new
husband's son. So we need to steal him.
And they said, Oh no, it's just a done deal with your exhusband
because he was born under the covenant.
Oh, OK. So here's my story with that.
OK, so after my husband was very mad by the way, on that, like,
that was his son his only child. He's like, wait, what?
He was like, no, that's the male dominance of the church coming.
Into play huge right there. And what I'm about to tell you
is going to totally play on that.
And it's it's, it's grotesque. So I got divorced from my son's
mother. And I got custody.
I was awarded in Idaho. It's called primary residential
custody. And I was awarded child support.
Didn't see a dime of it. But that's okay.
So I raised my son on my own. And him and I today are like
this. He's my buddy.
I love him to death. And and now he made me a proud
grandpa. Got two beautiful grandchildren
12 and nine years old. Anyway, so I was getting.
I got married to my second wife. And we were about to go through
the. Temple to get.
Sealed and. Here's the the the.
Play with the priesthood, with the male dominated church.
I had to. Send a letter A.
Certified letter to my exwife informing her that's it.
It didn't matter if she responded negatively or
positively informing her. That I was about to get sealed
to another wife, which the spiritual.
I would have both of them in. Heaven if I by their new name,
by my priesthood. Power, I almost said the other
word that I said earlier before when we were in the meeting by
my priesthood. Power.
And anyway if the tables. Were turned and.
She was still, you know, a member of the church and she.
Married another man and wanted to get sealed in the temple to
him and we were still sealed to each other.
She would have to write. A letter asking.
Me for my permission and I could deny it and she would not be
able to get sealed to him now. This happened to me now and but.
But all I had to do was inform her that I was proceeding on.
You can have as many wives as you want, yeah.
Yes, spiritual polygamy So. Even though the church doesn't
practice it in the flesh, they still practice it.
One of the presidents of the church Is it the leader of the
church? What's his name?
God. I can't remember Russell,
Russell and Nelson. His wife just died.
They had a terrible funeral for her where she was cast off to
the side, not put front and center like all the men are when
they have their funeral service in the the Conference Center.
But that her casket was over on the side, and all the men are in
their red chairs in in the room, and and the Prophet in the
middle and all that. But the casket was off to the
side where she where whenever there is someone in leadership,
whether it be president of the church or one of the apostles or
the 70 or whatever, that passes away, their casket is right in
front, like right below the podium.
Not in this case, not when it's a woman.
She gets cast off to the side. That's what happened.
There's pictures of it all over the place.
So you you mean the Skull and Bones?
Russell and Nelson? Did you know he's the Skull and
Bones member? No.
Google. That's great.
He wrote a biography before long ago.
And you know, he's a doctor. And Yep.
And so he Yep, he wrote a biography, and I can't remember
which, but I know he's a surgeon and so he wrote a biography.
And now that book is $1300 because they're trying to make
it so inaccessible because it has this part in there about the
skull of OI was. Like this is not real but and so
I I don't know if it was per se at Princeton but he is a part of
a skull and bone society. So yeah, that was that was done
eventually scan it that was you on the.
Internet, it'll be available. Oh, it's.
You can find it. My friend at work told me about
it and it was so funny because I I found it right away.
I was like, there's no way. And there it is.
I was like, wow, direct quote from his biography.
So that's fun. Yeah, that that was the whole
ordeal. And I I.
Thought that that really sat wrong with me by the way and I
want to be clear because I I I believe like we had talked about
pre show I I love Star Trek because of the equality, all
races, all genders. Are the same.
Even the book of the Bible says in God's Kingdom there's either
Greek nor Jew, nor male, nor female, nor bond nor slave.
Gender doesn't matter and race doesn't matter in God's side,
period. So anyway.
But at the time, I felt kind of uncomfortable.
With knowing that had the tables been reversed, she would have
had to ask my permission and I could have taken that away from
her. That's wrong to me.
Yet she. Could do it.
I mean, I could get married, I could get sealed in the temple
again and just inform her. That's all that was required by
church policy in the Church handbook, and she just had to be
informed by certified letter Even so, but it that was.
Just an. Interesting thing.
Anyway, so one of the some of the things I want to talk about.
Besides the and and breaking those ocean covenants and and
putting out my website and and sharing all of the temple
ceremony out there loud and proud, breaking that night not
to reveal the ocean covenants of the temple outside of the
temple, you know my. Home teacher coming over and me
talking with him about it because I I had concerns and he
went back and told my Bishop. I was like, we're friends, we're
believe. It or not, his name's I won't
give his last name but his first name and we are still friends to
this day on Facebook is why. It's part of the Navajo Navajo
Nation. White and delights them and we
can we can go into the next part of our thing here.
I'm going to shrink my screen down so I can move my browsers
to another monitor here. I've got stuff.
Think I can just if you need me to push screen share, I can't as
well. I think it's already on.
So yeah, Am I sure? Oh, OK.
Yeah. I'm just using this as reference
honestly, so I think I can close the zoom now.
Oh gosh, we're still on. Yeah, I just OK there, OK.
Sure. OK.
So the. The.
Church besides the fact that
you. Know the Bible.
Says there's neither bond nor free, nor Jew or Greek, nor Jew,
male nor female. Basically, that is just one
instance of. Two particular races and and as
an example and that it applies to all races.
You know it could it could say, it could say something else
besides Greek, nor two it could say you know Spanish or French.
It could say you know Asian or European.
I I don't know. But it it doesn't matter that's
that's the that's the point. And with the the church's
mindset, I don't know if you're aware, but there were actually
black people that were baptized into the church under Joseph
Smith and Nauvoo, and it was more Brigham Young that really
pushed. I mean, don't get me wrong,
Joseph Smith said. And this is this can be found on
the Joseph Smith papers. Website This is a letter that he
wrote to Oliver Caldary is found in the Messenger and Advocate
volume to #7 April 191836. I do not believe that the people
of the North have anymore right to say that the South should not
hold slaves that the South have have to say the North.
Shall the first mention we have of slavery is found in the Holy
Bible as far? And so far from the that
predication being adverse to the mind of God, if its slavery
remains as a lasting monument of the decree of Jehovah, to the
shame and confusion of all who have cried out against the South
in consequence of their holding the sons of Ham in servitude,
so. That's Joseph Smith.
I I I kind of get the impression that.
That was speaking against it. And then also from the Joseph
Smith Papers and found in the Elders Journal, he said Question
13. Are the Mormons abolitionists?
No, unless delivering the people from priests craft and the
priests from the power of Satan should be considered abolition.
But we do not believe in setting the Negroes free quote UN quote.
So that Brigham Young, that was Joseph Smith's deal that was
from the. That is found online in the
Joseph Smith Papers, now Brigham Young, he said.
When all the children of. Adam have had the privilege of
receiving the priesthood and coming out, coming into the
Kingdom of God and being redeemed from the four quarters
of the earth, and have received their resurrection from the
dead. Then it will be time enough to
remove the curse from Cain and his posterity.
You must. And also that was from the
journal Discourses volume to which you can find on my website
under the TLC link at the top under their library that is
included on my website not not available online anymore.
The the TLC website. The True and Living Church of
Jesus Christ of Saints of the
Last Days. It is a spinoff group in Manti
UT. Fundamentalist group.
They are polygamists. And they believe that after
1890, right around then, the church lost the truth because
that's when they were able to gain statehood, because they
denounced polygamy publicly. But we know they didn't denounce
it completely, and now they still practice spiritual
polygamy. Even though they don't do it in
the flesh anymore, in fact you'll be excommunicated if you
do it in the flesh so. But Brigham Young said in the
Journal of Mormon Thought Spring of I'm sorry, wait a minute.
In the New York Herald, May 4th, 1855, as cited in Dialogue a
Mormon Journal Thought Spring of 1973, it says you must not think
from what I say, that I am opposed to slavery.
No. The Negro is damned and is to
serve his master till God chooses to remove the curse of
hell again, he said also in. Prophet Brigham Young, Brigham
Young. Address February the 5th, 1852
from the LDS Historical dot department online.
There's a Anyway, the moment, the moment we consent to mingle
with the seat of cane, the church must go to destruction.
We should receive the curse. We should receive the curse
which has been placed upon the seat of cane, and never more be
numbered. With the children of Adam who
are the heirs to the priesthood until that curse be removed.
He also made a statement, and I, I I won't go into it too much,
but he also meant made a statement about if we if we
mingle with the seed of Cain. Meaning black people.
As taught by the Mormon Church that they are cursed with a
black skin and a flat nose. If we mingle and marry into or
have children together that it would be death on the spot and
that comes into blood atonement. Because there are some sins that
are cannot be forgiven under the blood of Christ.
That your own blood must be spilled to pay for that sin,
murder, and adultery. And this was considered because
he said it definitely and leaving the church or?
Telling the secret. That was a great.
That was done way. Back in the day by.
Hollywood was the avenging Angel.
Oh gosh, such a good movie. Here's some food for thought.
There you go. Oh, wow.
Yeah, this is written by John J. Stewart, notice the middle
initials in there. A sermon published by the
request of an explanation of Latter Day Saints Church
doctrine regarding the Negro and those of Negroid blood That's
just on the inside of the cover. The the inset, and what this
was. When was this around?
Like around segregation time or? This one before.
Published it really set set me off because my.
Brother actually married a black lady and so this really upset me
because my niece was black. This is the 9th printing 1960. 7
copyright 1960 This is the 9th printing of this disgusting
book. Yeah, I always knew somebody.
Asked me on the last podcast it was the white Rabbit.
Asked me so were you a racist and and like kind of a upheld in
racism by your church And I I said you know what I always knew
it wasn't it wasn't true. I I grew up in Pocatello around
a lot of Native American tribes and.
So I knew from a young age that God, there was no way that God
made these little babies and kids like some curse.
Like I knew it was BSI called BSI used to torture my grandpa
about it and say, do you want me?
I never did I. Only I got.
I got more into it when I was here because I was just a little
kid there. But we moved here when back to
Utah when I was about 12. So here's another one.
Yeah. Wow.
And and they, I'm sure they denounce it all.
It it amazes me this if they want to criticize the Bible and
say it's only correct in as far as it was translated, how come
they keep changing their own temple ceremonies?
How can they keep changing their own books?
How can they keep changing their own things?
Yes, so the men that. Run the church, all them old
farts that run the church. Including that conversation with
that interviewer. Who's interviewing the guy
that's dying, getting like he's got bad health issues right now?
He was at his desk. In this in this video, and he's
being interviewed by the press and he it is talking about why
is anything coming to me right now.
Well, you know why we're trying to stay?
True. And that's what happened.
I ran for president. Oh Romney.
Romney. Mitt.
Romney. Yes, yes.
So he's interviewing the lead. This prophet or president and
whatever it is of the church, is it Faust?
James E Faust. And he's talking about what Mitt
Romney covenanted to in the temple when Mitt Romney first
went through, including all of that.
And and and then at first he deny it wasn't Faust.
I met Faust in person in Sizzler restaurant in Provo in Salt Lake
City. Actually not Provo.
I have a picture. I have a picture with my family,
my my third wife, my son, my mother and Faust and me.
Anyway, he denied it at first that Oh no, no, he didn't do
that. And then he said, wait a minute.
This was this was something that he done.
In the temple, that isn't any longer, right?
And he said, yeah, so then he did go through and then he
finally admits it and he's caught in a lie on film, on
camera that he he at first tried to deny that Mitt Romney did
those kind of oats. And yeah, everybody did.
Yeah, so with all of that. Said and.
The blacks not receiving the priesthood until 1978.
How many people in the Mormon Church today are still walking
in this teaching that says that they are the seed of Cain and
they are cursed? And that they did bloody oaths
in the temple. How many people are still
walking around today with that mindset?
Having taken those specific covenants and oaths in the
temple and believing that the black people are the the, the
they are cursed, and if you mixed the cane, you're doomed.
You're death on the spot. It's disgusting when you think
about it and to think. That on that date during
general. Conference, are you?
What are you doing? Look up here on that date during
general conference. It disappeared.
There you go on the recording of the cassette.
Tapes that I have here. Conference of October. 78 of
When they announced that all worthy males are allowed to hold
the priesthood, they're starting finally.
That these these people. Are nasty.
They're dirty. They aren't worthy in God's
eyes, but we had to give it to him because, you know, peer
pressure and yeah, anyway, and that was the way he.
Felt More Doctrine with by Bruce R Mcconkey.
And look up pain in here and look up Catholic the whore of
Babylon, the, the and and and how they don't persecute.
Why are you persecuting us? We don't persecute other
religions. All churches are an abomination.
First Vision. Let's go back to that.
You know, all churches are an abomination.
They come close to me with their heart, but they are far from me
with no they come close to me with their mind, their mouths,
but they are far from me with their hearts.
Something to that effect, you know and and and you know the
the mind washing, the brain washing that happened for you as
a child as this. They don't have.
Christians, beware. Mormon Church does not.
Have the song Amazing Grace in their hymnal.
They don't have the song, the old rugged cross in their hymnal
because they focus more on Gethsemane, where where Jesus
took upon him the sins of the world, all of the things that
happened in the Old Testament. Were a shadow of things to be
fulfilled in the New Testament, in the Old Testament they would
go, and they would take the lamb, and they would place their
hands on the head of the lamb. And transfer their sin to the
lamb that was to be slaughtered and and that lamb would die with
their sins upon it. Jesus took our sins upon him.
In the Garden of Eden. But then he died with those
sins. He was slaughtered.
The lamb to the slaughter. How dare they say Joseph Smith
was a lamb to the slaughter when he had his pepper box 6 shooter
pistol in his hands. You cannot be a martyr or a or a
lamb to the slaughter if you are shooting back and defending
yourself. I get it.
If he wasn't defending himself and by all rights he had every
reason to defend himself. I understand well the fact,
besides the fact that he was convicted criminal.
Convicted criminal you shouldn't have a gun in.
You know, It's like giving him the file in the cake, you know?
But anyway, they stuck in the gun.
He had a gun. He wasn't a lamb to the
slaughter. But anyway, our sin was
transferred to Jesus and then he was slaughtered or slain with
our sins upon him. And if that final part didn't
happen, it wouldn't have been complete.
It is. It is done.
And and the Mormon Church, it's. Not done.
There is not much work to do well and they make sure that
there's. Man in between anything that we
want for grace, There's no grace given without a cost.
So you have to go through all like you were telling me about,
I had to go through one of those council things and.
Like you have to go to the Bishop, and then the Bishop
decides if it's bad enough and it goes and it goes, and
whatever you do, it isn't between you and God, it's
between you and a man. Then upwards from there it could
be between you and the whole church, depending on how vile
your problem was. Whatever that was.
I'll never forget. I'll never forget when I left.
I wrote my letter and I wrote it on May 3rd.
It was dated. It's on my website.
I wrote my letter on May 3rd, 1998 and I mailed out three
copies and one was addressed to the Bishop, one was addressed to
the state president, and one was addressed to church headquarters
in Salt Lake City and the the church was the first to respond.
Church headquarters was the first to respond, but they told
me that it had to be handled at the local level and so.
I then got a letter that told me that I was invited to a church
disciplinary council. That I was not allowed to bring
a recording device of any kind into the meeting.
I could bring witnesses on my behalf.
So I'm going to a courtroom. I'm guilty and I'm.
I'm having to defend myself down.
That's what this is. The letter, and you'll see it if
you look at them on on my documents there.
The letter invited me to have my my church disciplinary council
on June 14th at 7:00 AM in the morning, June 14th, my birthday.
You're not going to do it, Yeah. Oh, flipping dare you, you know.
I'll use a good Mormon curse word there flipping.
So did I go? No, because when I let go of
those 3 letters into the blue mailbox, I can't explain to you.
In words fully the feeling that came over me.
His yoke is light, his yoke is light, and the yoke of Mormonism
is not light. It's very.
Heavy and heat that is on you as a Mormon.
It controls every aspect of your life.
Like I was talking about the garments with when you wear them
and how you wear them and where you don't wear them and to not
drinking coffee or tea. Is is is post them okay.
Yeah but it might give you the poops and no.
And is Coco okay. I don't know it's a hot drink
and and you know the R rated movie.
Oh, I don't know. Make this PG-13.
Is it Okay. And I mean every decision of
your life. In the Word of Wisdom it says
that you should also abstain from me except in times of
famine and eat it sparingly. But the Mormons don't do that.
It's at every buffet or or you know so we pick and choose what
what what we want to apply to our members from the word of
wisdom even though it encompasses so much more and it
just it just it there's there's so much for you to prove and and
the the thing with perfection. And then it's just never enough.
It's like. And if you look at it, they're
the most, some of the most, not all.
And I don't have the stats on it, but many of the Mormon
people never feel good enough. They're highly on antidepression
pills. They often times have opioid
issues. They have huge porn issues.
And I know this because I'm a nurse that works in behavioral
health in the middle of the Mecca of Utah.
So I see, yeah. Exactly.
They had to put a stop.
Yeah, they had to put a. Stop to it somehow, because
nobody. Was listening on that one, I
guess. But I mean, and some of the
stuff they know that's wrong, like either they're really
legalistic and they completely do.
It to the weirdest letter or they'll try and manipulate it
somehow. They're some of the most
manipulative people I've ever been around when they're
encompassed not the normal people.
I'm not talking about the normal family next door.
That's sweet and nice. I'm talking about people at a
higher level in the church, right?
Right and and again. Those people at that higher
level of the church are all under that old mindset and and
we're just. He flipped the switch on October
1978, and that all went away and our mindset completely changed.
Our perspective towards a whole race of people completely
changed. And it, and we don't want to
leave out is very important. We don't leave out here the fact
that the Book of Mormon still teaches today, today in the Book
of Mormon, the most correct book on earth.
And a man can get closer by abiding by its precept than any
other book, because the Bible is only good as far as it is
translated correctly. But second, Nephi 521 through 23
and I'm going to read it. It's an entirety forgive me and
and I my reading skills are sometimes when I'm nervous like
this, forgive me. And he had caused the cursing to
come upon them. Yeah, even a sore cursing
because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened
their hearts against him, that they had become likened to
Flint. Wherefore.
As they were white, and exceedingly fair and
delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people, the
the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them, and
thus say it, the Lord I will cause, that they shall be
loathsome unto thy people, save shall save they shall repent of
their inequities. And cursed shall that shall be
the seed of him that mixes there with their seed, for they shall
be cursed even with the same cursing.
And the Lord spake it, and it was done.
This is talking about the Native Americans up until recently.
The recent change in the Book of Mormon edition said that the
American Indians or Native Americans or indigenous people.
Of I would assume because of the imagery that has been shoved
down our throats about the Book of Mormon, North America,
Central America and South America with the the the ruins,
the Aztec and Maya ruins. With Jesus standing there in
front of in front of the temple that is in the Aztec and Mayan
cultures pretending that that is supposed to be the Prince of all
of the north-south, Central. Native people are supposed to be
the principal. Ancestors of the Native
Americans we know today. Yet after DNA, mitochondrial DNA
testing, it comes to find out that there's not one drop of
Israelite blood in any of them, that they actually have more
like blood from Syria. They came over the land bridge
and and they're not Israelites. And you know, they they they
teach that it was Jared. Who came over on the boat 1st
and then father. Father Lehigh you know came with
his son and his family and of those two two of the sons were
Lehigh and Layman and they fought like brothers do and but
Layman was a a scoundrel and didn't want to be right with God
and didn't want to be righteous and and and Nephi was just.
Little whipped puppy dog that did everything he was supposed
to do and he was the holier than thou one and and and basically
that's when God did this he put this curse because layman the
whole Cain and Abel story is repeated in the Book of Mormon
with new names and new faces. It's so fun.
So basically, Layman was it? Was it?
Did did Layman try to kill? 25 Yeah, And I think they.
Both went against. They both went.
Against him, right layman? And I know there was the
sacrifice that was made. Also, and I don't know, I get
the stories confused and I remember now I try to block it
out. I have PTSD.
Yeah, so. Me too.
And that's. I can't let comment and that's
why I've reignited my website nowmoreaction.com that used to
be helping mormons.org. But it's still the same website.
I was actually able to import my entire old website from the
Internet Archive and found a that would actually still work
with Microsoft Front page 2000 and I can use a FTP program to
FileZilla to transfer and upload my site and change things and
add. YouTube videos and all of that.
I'll have to. I'll have to get some of yours
on there. So I have a I have a.
Testimony page where it's. Experts who are now Christian
and sharing their story and it's beautiful and but regardless of
all that so these they the the knee fights were basically all
killed out by the Lamanites any the the the the family of layman
grew and grew and grew and became the layman Knights and
the knee the family the Nephi Nephi and his family grew and
grew and grew and they became the knee fights and so basically
they were at war with each other because one was terrible and
mean and ugly and the other one was great fantastic and
beautiful and and delights them even and and they were at war
with each other and eventually the Lamanites killed all the
Nephites except for one Moroni who took the gold plates to New
York State somehow somehow all that.
Way he carried them all that way Smith's backyard let's.
See start. 40.