1 00:00:00,800 --> 00:00:03,840 Hello and welcome to Tracks of Our Queers. 2 00:00:04,440 --> 00:00:07,920 My name is Andy Gott and each episode I chat to a fascinating 3 00:00:07,920 --> 00:00:11,040 queer person about their relationship with music via one 4 00:00:11,040 --> 00:00:14,440 song, one album and one artist that have each soundtracked 5 00:00:14,440 --> 00:00:17,760 their life. Laura Wilkinson is the Managing 6 00:00:17,760 --> 00:00:21,960 Director of the LGBT Foundation, the UK's leading national 7 00:00:21,960 --> 00:00:25,440 charity focusing on LGBTQ health and well-being. 8 00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:29,040 Based in Manchester, just a few metres away from Canal Street, 9 00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:32,400 Laura helps lead the organisation at the highest 10 00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:36,600 level, aligning services, staff and operations with strategic 11 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:41,200 objectives to maximise impact for LGBTQ communities. 12 00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:44,240 But she's also one of my best friends. 13 00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:48,560 My own obsessions with music and queer history are largely in 14 00:00:48,560 --> 00:00:50,560 part due to some of the incredible people that I've 15 00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:54,400 crossed paths with particularly informative moments of my life. 16 00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:59,040 And as I speak to aforementioned fascinating queer people on this 17 00:00:59,040 --> 00:01:01,960 pod, I often think about a particular friend or 18 00:01:01,960 --> 00:01:05,319 acquaintance who gifted me musical experiences that I 19 00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:08,560 treasure to this day. And I think I'd love to hear 20 00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:10,280 some of those voices on the show. 21 00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:13,360 So you might be hearing from more of those friends in the 22 00:01:13,360 --> 00:01:15,200 future. Let's see how it goes with 23 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:19,200 Laura, or as I have known her from the day I met her, Lanks. 24 00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:22,680 You've heard the LinkedIn blurb about Laura's job, but some of 25 00:01:22,680 --> 00:01:25,520 the work she helps drive is genuinely astonishing. 26 00:01:25,960 --> 00:01:29,240 The LGBT Foundation are relentless in their advocacy for 27 00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:33,400 queer people but, especially in recent years, trans people and 28 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:37,080 trans youth, at a time when safety and understanding from 29 00:01:37,080 --> 00:01:39,680 the general public are desperately in demand. 30 00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:44,000 Last August, I attended my first Manchester Pride in years and 31 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:50,200 was bursting with Wow Pride, seeing Laura help lead the LGBT 32 00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:53,600 Foundation float as they celebrated 50 years of support 33 00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:57,040 and activism. Lanx is one of my closest queer 34 00:01:57,040 --> 00:01:59,560 siblings. We met at Manchester University 35 00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:04,040 in 2009, both freshly out and ready to absorb everything that 36 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:08,240 incredible city had to offer. And absorb we truly did. 37 00:02:08,840 --> 00:02:11,720 But we've learned who we were as queer people alongside each 38 00:02:11,720 --> 00:02:15,200 other in nearly all of my most cherished Manchester nightlife 39 00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:17,840 memories. Lanx is there wreaking havoc 40 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:20,640 with me on the dance floor and in the smoking area. 41 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:23,040 We crossed paths on the backpacking adventures that 42 00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:26,720 followed university. We supported each other via many 43 00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:31,160 a voice note through heartbreak, job interviews, and right now, 44 00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:35,160 our own gardening adventures. I've always known she was green 45 00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:38,680 fingered at heart. Enough of the navel gazing, 46 00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:43,360 let's crack on because Lanks, or Laura as I have to refer to her 47 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:46,720 in this episode, has some brilliant musical choices And 48 00:02:46,720 --> 00:02:49,120 that's the main reason that I'm excited to share this chat. 49 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:52,880 If you've enjoyed this latest season attracts of our queers, 50 00:02:52,880 --> 00:02:56,720 thank you for being here. After a lengthy break last year, 51 00:02:56,800 --> 00:02:59,880 I feel more energised than ever to keep on keeping on. 52 00:02:59,920 --> 00:03:03,440 So if you'd like to support me in any way, the link to buy me a 53 00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:07,560 coffee is in my episode Show notes in Every Penny Counts over 54 00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:18,080 to Laura. All right, this is very strange 55 00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:21,760 for me to say. Laura Wilkinson, Welcome to 56 00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:24,400 Tracks of Our Queers. Good morning, Andy. 57 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:26,000 Thanks for having me. This has been a long time 58 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:26,720 coming. Hey. 59 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:29,880 It has but first of all I need to ask, may I call you Lanx? 60 00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:32,320 Yeah, for the sake of this podcast, although that is my 61 00:03:32,320 --> 00:03:35,280 alias that people at work don't know me about, I'm revealing my 62 00:03:35,280 --> 00:03:37,480 identity here. I'll be mindful of that. 63 00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:39,560 But you're right, it has been a long time in the making. 64 00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:41,560 We've been talking about this conversation for a really long 65 00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:45,360 time and I'd love to know how are you feeling about being here 66 00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:48,280 and talking about music? I'm really excited. 67 00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:50,920 I mean, the process itself has been lovely. 68 00:03:50,920 --> 00:03:54,760 Like the thoughts that come up, the feelings when you kind of, I 69 00:03:54,760 --> 00:03:58,280 guess, reminded in a way of the music that you used to love and 70 00:03:58,280 --> 00:04:00,080 listen to and that meant so much at a time. 71 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:03,880 And it's been like opening all these old boxes and being taken 72 00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:07,080 back to old places. And that's been, yeah, quite 73 00:04:07,080 --> 00:04:09,320 gorgeous, you know, and thinking about all the haircuts in 74 00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:13,400 between and stuff like that. Let's unpack some of those dusty 75 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:17,079 boxes in your mind. Tell me about what was playing 76 00:04:17,079 --> 00:04:20,800 at home when you were growing up and what were your parents 77 00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:22,400 listening to? Actually, this is the first time 78 00:04:22,400 --> 00:04:25,480 I've had a guest on this podcast where I know, I know the parent 79 00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:27,680 that I'm asking about. So what was your mum listening 80 00:04:27,680 --> 00:04:29,000 to at home? What was there? 81 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:31,880 Well, my mum had a massive record collection so there was 82 00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:35,040 always music on in the house and it was very eclectic. 83 00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:40,760 My mum would listen to all sorts of things, from Brit pop to 84 00:04:40,760 --> 00:04:43,400 belting out tunes from Phantom of the Opera 85 00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:56,280 all the way to kind of Kate Bush classical music. 86 00:04:56,600 --> 00:05:00,000 So really eclectic that we used to have discos in the living 87 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:02,760 room. That's a really fond memory. 88 00:05:03,080 --> 00:05:06,080 And my family in general, my kind of wider families, my 89 00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:11,120 granddads, his brothers, my uncle, they were all into 90 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:13,800 playing instruments. So even though they were from 91 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:17,880 very working class backgrounds and they all did kind of labour 92 00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:21,000 jobs, they were just excellent musicians. 93 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:25,600 So violin players, guitar players, pianos, a few of my 94 00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:28,360 uncles have pianos in the house. So whenever I went round to see 95 00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:32,160 them, they'd often just, you know, as you walk in the kind of 96 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:35,080 door to their little terraced house, they'd just be sat, their 97 00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:38,440 silhouette kind of just playing the piano, probably with, you 98 00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:42,040 know, the telly on as well and maybe like a parakeet flying 99 00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:44,480 around. That feels quite Irish to me. 100 00:05:44,520 --> 00:05:46,720 I don't think of that as an English tradition, but maybe 101 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:50,480 that's my ignorance. There I have got Irish descent, 102 00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:55,120 me and my brother got my mum and my biological dad's DNA tests 103 00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:57,720 for Christmas to find about our roots and we thought that we 104 00:05:57,720 --> 00:06:01,160 were really, really Scottish and it turns out we're more Irish, 105 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:03,920 like 88% Irish. So you're probably right with 106 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:06,640 your assessment there. And now your mum and dad's DNA 107 00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:08,960 is just floating out there in some kind of database. 108 00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:11,480 Yeah, Judy piano there. You were growing up in a very 109 00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:14,480 musical family and I know that you would go on to pick up the 110 00:06:14,480 --> 00:06:16,920 guitar yourself. Did you always have that musical 111 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:19,920 connection yourself? That question, it's hard because 112 00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:23,320 you don't know how naturally it is to the average person to kind 113 00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:25,520 of pick up an instrument and have rhythm, et cetera. 114 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:29,880 And I can't dance, but I can have quite a natural rhythm. 115 00:06:29,880 --> 00:06:36,520 So, you know, acquiring like, you know, drum lessons in GCSE, 116 00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:39,200 you know, this little northern village and you know, being my 117 00:06:39,200 --> 00:06:43,600 kind of in my little coming out Daiki era and thinking about I'm 118 00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:44,840 going to play the drums for a bit. 119 00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:48,600 But then obviously after a few weeks didn't continue it because 120 00:06:48,600 --> 00:06:51,760 whether it's ADHD or something else, I tried pretty much every 121 00:06:51,760 --> 00:06:56,080 hobby growing up from ballet to majorettes to the army cadets 122 00:06:56,360 --> 00:06:58,760 and lasted a few weeks and then dropped out. 123 00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:00,920 Tell me a bit more about the majorettes. 124 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:04,600 I can barely remember it, but I went with this kid down my 125 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:08,760 street and you like twirl these battens around and kind of March 126 00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:14,280 around a little bit and I don't think I was very good at it and 127 00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:17,640 I'm not really good at not being good at things quickly. 128 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:22,400 So I packed that in quite quickly. 129 00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:25,640 But yeah, I tried the clarinet, the piano. 130 00:07:26,120 --> 00:07:29,720 Our music teacher taught us to play glockenspiel. 131 00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:32,680 You know, the drums, the guitar, you name it. 132 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:33,520 I've had it. I've had a go. 133 00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:35,160 But the guitar was the only one I stuck out. 134 00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:38,200 Let's say that, shall we? What was the first CD that you 135 00:07:38,320 --> 00:07:42,680 owned? It was a single, and it was 136 00:07:42,720 --> 00:07:55,120 Spice Girls to become one. It was around the time that I 137 00:07:55,120 --> 00:07:58,560 really love Spice Girls. I think I wanted to be 40, 138 00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:01,200 Spice, and I always was when we were kind of acting out the 139 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:02,760 Spice Girls at school and whatnot. 140 00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:04,400 I don't. Which Spice Girl were you? 141 00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:07,600 Well, I. I want I was always ginger. 142 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:10,960 I feel like, you know, aside from hair colour alone, ginger 143 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:15,360 for me embodied that spiceness. Like she was like a drag queen 144 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:18,400 to me. But I'll say now, present day, 145 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:20,960 the person I'm maybe most fond of is sporty. 146 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:24,840 I just think Mel C's got it all and she's absolutely smashing 147 00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:26,840 it. I believe in her early 50s she's 148 00:08:26,840 --> 00:08:31,480 just an icon. Although I do remember watching 149 00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:34,400 a music video with your university, was it? 150 00:08:35,080 --> 00:08:39,120 And it's the one where Mel C is kind of nodding to people 151 00:08:39,120 --> 00:08:44,000 experiencing homelessness. And some of the lyrics are like, 152 00:08:44,480 --> 00:08:47,080 how do you sleep while the rest of us cry? 153 00:08:47,920 --> 00:08:51,320 How do you dream when there will this have no chance to say 154 00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:52,960 goodbye? And she's, like, lying down next 155 00:08:52,960 --> 00:09:07,230 to a car in a car park. And I just wonder what was going 156 00:09:07,230 --> 00:09:10,670 on then for that to be OK and needed. 157 00:09:11,430 --> 00:09:14,230 But I remember we did a real deep dive on that together. 158 00:09:14,390 --> 00:09:15,870 There would have been a deep dive. 159 00:09:15,870 --> 00:09:20,240 And look, our journeys, we're not on linear journeys. 160 00:09:20,320 --> 00:09:24,120 We have twists and turns, we have growth, we have ups and 161 00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:26,400 downs. And yeah, that was a down for 162 00:09:26,400 --> 00:09:27,080 sure. Yeah. 163 00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:31,680 I wonder if you could maybe recall your first musical 164 00:09:31,680 --> 00:09:36,040 encounter with, for want of a better word, otherness. 165 00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:39,760 So perhaps you might not have realised it at the time, maybe 166 00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:43,760 with a bit of hindsight, but that first song or artist or 167 00:09:43,760 --> 00:09:47,760 person who maybe reminded you that you weren't necessarily the 168 00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:51,120 same as all your friends, or you weren't the same as the other 169 00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:53,320 girls. If that's ringing bells. 170 00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:56,160 Well, apart from having a crush on Hannah from S Club 7 because 171 00:09:56,160 --> 00:10:00,200 she wore a bandana and a sports bra, there are actually 2 172 00:10:00,200 --> 00:10:05,400 moments that come to mind. The first one being aged 12 and 173 00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:08,480 the song tattoo. All the things she said came on 174 00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:22,760 the telly. And I remember being in my 175 00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:24,840 friend from down the roads living room and kind of in the 176 00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:27,680 backroom and her saying something like quick come and 177 00:10:27,680 --> 00:10:29,920 look at the telly, isn't this funny? 178 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:34,480 And then I was presented with what I think for the first time 179 00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:37,760 ever had seen, you know, 2 girls looking like the kind of in love 180 00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:40,440 on telly etcetera. And I remember at that age, that 181 00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:44,800 tender age, I hadn't come to terms with my own otherness, 182 00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:48,480 queerness, and definitely hadn't spoken to anyone else about it. 183 00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:52,760 But I remember at that age of 12, so I think 2002, it was 184 00:10:53,160 --> 00:10:56,200 really wanting to watch the whole video, but being so 185 00:10:56,200 --> 00:10:59,840 conscious of looking at the telly too much and not wanting 186 00:10:59,840 --> 00:11:04,000 people to see me looking that kind of internalised homophobia 187 00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:06,320 at age 12. I have to do a shout out to 188 00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:07,760 Avril Lavigne. Come. 189 00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:20,160 On. So Avril Lavigne was someone who 190 00:11:20,200 --> 00:11:23,920 basically I wanted to be, I think I even bought a skateboard 191 00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:27,080 at the time. You know, she's just kind of 192 00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:31,680 rocking out. She's wearing kind of more mask 193 00:11:31,680 --> 00:11:34,840 presenting clothes. I definitely bought 194 00:11:34,840 --> 00:11:36,840 straighteners around that time and started straightening my 195 00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:38,800 hair. And I also went out shopping 196 00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:42,000 with my mum and I went to probably, like, Tammy Girl. 197 00:11:42,720 --> 00:11:45,600 And I bought a rugby shirt and a tie. 198 00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:49,800 And I remember this really cute moment of coming home and my dad 199 00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:52,800 doing my tie for me and it being this really cute, special 200 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:53,880 moment. I can picture where I wear an 201 00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:56,520 hour in the window by his bedroom looking in the mirror. 202 00:11:56,840 --> 00:12:00,280 He was looking in the mirror. I hadn't seen myself yet. 203 00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:03,760 And I was expecting this reflection of, like, real 204 00:12:03,760 --> 00:12:08,880 coolness and what was staring backwards just like, yeah, a tie 205 00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:11,520 with like, really clashing colours that didn't really work, 206 00:12:11,520 --> 00:12:13,280 but I just insisted on wearing it all the time. 207 00:12:13,280 --> 00:12:15,840 And I felt amazing. But yeah, it's interesting what 208 00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:20,760 you kind of latch onto identity wise, you know, in later high 209 00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:25,720 school life, discovered a lot of alternative music that I really, 210 00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:27,560 really loved. And then, yeah, I guess it was 211 00:12:27,560 --> 00:12:30,160 really nice to just feel a little bit different, but the 212 00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:31,800 same as other people that were different. 213 00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:35,000 Just thinking about your dad putting that tie on you and 214 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:36,000 you're going shopping with your mum. 215 00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:39,760 Actually, from very early on when I met you, it was very 216 00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:43,720 clear to me what an incredible family you came from. 217 00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:48,400 You're an incredible person, but you've always made it very clear 218 00:12:48,800 --> 00:12:52,040 that you come from an environment where you've always 219 00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:55,600 been very deeply loved and supported. 220 00:12:55,680 --> 00:12:59,320 That little example, that would have been hundreds, thousands of 221 00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:02,320 examples, I'm sure, in your family where they've always made 222 00:13:02,320 --> 00:13:05,840 you feel good being the person you are. 223 00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:07,760 And I don't want to put too many words into your mouth. 224 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:10,480 But first of all, I'd love to know, does that resonate? 225 00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:13,760 Do you agree? And secondly, I guess I'd love 226 00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:17,640 to hear maybe a bit more about your own coming out experience. 227 00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:23,560 No you are right, I come from a super close knit family and we 228 00:13:23,560 --> 00:13:25,320 all feel really blessed and lucky to. 229 00:13:25,760 --> 00:13:28,000 We all feel like friends as well as family. 230 00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:31,760 So it's me, my brother, he's two years older than me, he lives 231 00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:35,960 about 15 minutes away from me and my parents were about 40 232 00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:38,760 minute drive and having travelled and been abroad for 233 00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:42,800 five years in the past, it felt really important to come back 234 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:45,960 and put roots down near where I'm from and particularly where 235 00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:49,120 my family are. So my stepdad, who I'll call my 236 00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:52,920 dad, he'd been my dad since I was 3-4 years old. 237 00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:58,960 So my step sister is also queer, so I had the experience of 238 00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:02,840 watching her come out before me and seeing her being accepted. 239 00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:07,640 So actually, I did know that my parents would always be kind of 240 00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:11,360 loving and open and supportive. I didn't know this about your 241 00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:13,000 family. I didn't know your older sister 242 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:17,640 was queer. Yeah, and my mum is always there 243 00:14:17,640 --> 00:14:21,320 to listen and love and also is always there to learn as well. 244 00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:24,120 Like I really love that about my mum and dad. 245 00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:26,240 Today. We're having conversations about 246 00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:29,480 what's going on with the kind of divide of the country. 247 00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:33,080 We're talking about trans issues and we're kind of all learning 248 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:35,160 together. So I think that's something that 249 00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:38,280 I really value about my family, the idea that we can call each 250 00:14:38,280 --> 00:14:41,160 other in and support each other and learn together. 251 00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:44,800 My dad's always been a big advocate supporting people who 252 00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:48,480 was in the Navy for 23 years and tells these amazing stories 253 00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:54,480 about how at the time he worked as an engineer in the Navy and 254 00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:56,960 he would kind of lead A-Team there and they'd be short 255 00:14:56,960 --> 00:14:59,160 staffed, but women, even if they were trained, weren't allowed to 256 00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:01,560 go into the boiler room. And he was always, you know, 257 00:15:01,640 --> 00:15:03,960 kind of pushing back and saying, well, why not? 258 00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:07,120 And then I think in the end, he had like a female diving team of 259 00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:10,600 engineers. So yeah, I guess growing up 260 00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:12,720 around those stories and experiences, you know, that 261 00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:15,720 you're going to be held. Obviously coming out isn't 262 00:15:15,720 --> 00:15:21,440 without its challenges and so coming from this little northern 263 00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:27,440 village, I didn't know any other gay people really who lived in 264 00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:32,360 my area. And also the stereotype that we 265 00:15:32,360 --> 00:15:35,520 saw on TV didn't feel like people I could relate to. 266 00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:40,440 So when I started realising, I just knew I was different and 267 00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:44,680 that I was having like feelings of attraction towards girls and 268 00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:49,920 while sticking up pictures of Romeo from so Solid crew in my 269 00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:53,360 locker so I could pass, you know, we've all been there. 270 00:16:04,690 --> 00:16:08,970 So I remember going through a really difficult time and being 271 00:16:08,970 --> 00:16:11,690 very confused and kind of withdrawing a little bit. 272 00:16:11,970 --> 00:16:17,050 And I remember breaking down in tears in the Conservatory one 273 00:16:17,050 --> 00:16:20,210 day and just blurting out. So I stepped out. 274 00:16:20,210 --> 00:16:25,200 He helped me tell my mum and me and my mum were both crying and 275 00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:28,000 we actually rang LGBT Foundation's helpline no. 276 00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:31,560 Way. So spoke to a volunteer on the 277 00:16:31,560 --> 00:16:36,120 phone who were absolutely amazing and they made me feel 278 00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:39,680 like it was really normal and like it was all going to be OK. 279 00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:42,640 And so in that moment, I guess that was the first time telling 280 00:16:42,640 --> 00:16:44,840 my parents. But then life is a series of 281 00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:48,040 coming outs, isn't it? As we know, we all still come 282 00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:50,720 out today and we'll continue to. Thank you for sharing. 283 00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:53,960 That was really lovely. And yeah, I guess it's a 284 00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:57,560 privilege to have a managing director of the LGBT Foundation 285 00:16:57,600 --> 00:17:01,400 on tracks of our queries. And I'm going to be very 286 00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:04,079 professional in these questions. I'm not just going to beam with 287 00:17:04,079 --> 00:17:07,079 how proud I am of you and all you've accomplished. 288 00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:10,440 For listeners who aren't aware, maybe outside of the UK, tell us 289 00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:13,400 about the LGBT Foundation and what its mission is. 290 00:17:14,040 --> 00:17:17,200 So we're a National Health and well-being charity and we 291 00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:23,280 support about 56,000 people each year to access the services and 292 00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:26,720 support that they need to experience kind of queer joy, 293 00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:28,600 hope. And we do that through 294 00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:32,760 supporting people through mental health support and services like 295 00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:37,600 our helpline, talking therapies. We support people on journeys of 296 00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:41,560 recovery. We also have an amazing gender 297 00:17:41,560 --> 00:17:45,640 affirming clinic called Indigo that's commissioned by the NHS 298 00:17:46,320 --> 00:17:49,640 and we also run training and education programmes and 299 00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:52,800 influence policy as well to do the kind of work in the 300 00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:56,120 background and get that ripple effect of improving people's 301 00:17:56,400 --> 00:17:59,720 experiences. So we're actually celebrating 302 00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:04,480 our 50th anniversary this year. So yeah, it's quite amazing 303 00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:07,600 thinking of all the people that have come before us to get us to 304 00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:09,840 this point and all the people that we've supported as well. 305 00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:13,840 Yeah, all the work that's been a long way and all the changes in 306 00:18:13,840 --> 00:18:16,520 queer life in the UK and the world in 50 years. 307 00:18:16,520 --> 00:18:21,000 And it was a privilege to watch you March in the Manchester 308 00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:26,120 Pride Parade early this year with LGBT Foundation 50 Years. 309 00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:30,040 Just on that point about the Pride March, it's such an 310 00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:34,760 amazing experience. And I remember being a teenager 311 00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:37,760 so I could get the bus to Manchester, so it'd take about 312 00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:42,200 an hour and I would go and watch the Manchester Pride parade. 313 00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:47,000 And I remember though, having this real strong feeling of 314 00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:53,360 watching these people who seemed so familiar in the queerness but 315 00:18:53,360 --> 00:18:57,560 also so far away. Like I couldn't comprehend how 316 00:18:57,560 --> 00:19:01,840 you get to be at that point. So from being 1617 and living in 317 00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:05,240 this village and not knowing any queer people, seeing these queer 318 00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:08,800 people on TV that didn't look like me, I didn't aspire to be 319 00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:11,640 like them. But then seeing these people who 320 00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:14,640 actually maybe did look more like me, but they looked really 321 00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:17,520 happy and they were holding hands with people and they were 322 00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:19,800 with workplaces that obviously supported them. 323 00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:23,000 And I just didn't understand what steps you needed to take to 324 00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:25,920 get to that point or if I'd ever be able to get there myself. 325 00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:31,000 So a few years ago when I joined LGBT Foundation I had the 326 00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:33,600 opportunity and privilege to walk in the pride parade. 327 00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:37,000 I didn't realise what a kind of life affirming full circle 328 00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:40,240 moment it would be. Love doing that every year now 329 00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:43,040 it's a highlight. Absolutely. 330 00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:47,120 And I can't imagine how many people were maybe in that parade 331 00:19:47,120 --> 00:19:49,480 just this year alone who had a similar experience. 332 00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:53,360 So that it's so critical and important that visibility, 333 00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:56,840 visibility of joy and quite literally pride. 334 00:19:57,480 --> 00:20:02,640 Yeah, I often do think back to my younger self and how I really 335 00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:04,400 wished that there were more role models. 336 00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:10,920 And I was a youth worker for quite a few years and I do often 337 00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:15,600 try to centre myself in how can I be the role model for our 338 00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:17,440 generations, you know, that I didn't have. 339 00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:23,440 So using my kind of experiences and visibility and platforms to 340 00:20:24,120 --> 00:20:27,600 just even talking about your identity and experiences can 341 00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:31,720 make people feel. Yeah, affirmed or hopeful or not 342 00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:33,920 alone. And I think that's something 343 00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:35,760 that you do on this podcast really well, actually. 344 00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:38,960 What part of your work do you think you find the most 345 00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:42,600 fulfilling? I find many parts of it 346 00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:45,600 fulfilling and every day is really, really different. 347 00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:49,760 I love the fact that LGBT Foundation, while I'm in a 348 00:20:50,120 --> 00:20:52,800 senior position, I still have a lot of contact with our service 349 00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:58,040 users, so I do shifts on our reception desk and make brews 350 00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:00,880 for service users that are coming in, make sure that I get 351 00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:03,840 out on our programmes. So I'm going out with our Pride 352 00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:07,520 and ageing volunteers. They manage the Derek Jarman 353 00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:10,800 Pocket Park garden in front of Manchester Art Gallery, so I'm 354 00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:13,240 going gardening with them. I went on an amazing well-being 355 00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:16,280 walk with some of our service users last month, so I love 356 00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:20,440 staying connected and feeling a part of it and meeting our 357 00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:22,520 amazing volunteers and service users. 358 00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:27,920 I guess for me personally, I never realised what a journey I 359 00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:30,920 would go on working at a queer organisation. 360 00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:33,440 Honestly incredible. And I know we've talked about 361 00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:38,480 this before, but I remember being in a leadership meeting, 362 00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:41,040 right? And we were talking about in the 363 00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:44,280 future, if we're going to be talking about queer liberation, 364 00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:47,960 what kind of markers can we use for queerness and queer safety? 365 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:51,640 And we were talking about the idea of not needing to self 366 00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:54,040 censor when you're holding hands with your partners. 367 00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:56,560 We were talking about a world where you could walk anywhere 368 00:21:56,560 --> 00:21:57,960 holding hands with your partner in. 369 00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:01,040 We all know what it's like. You've got this silent code 370 00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:04,320 between yourselves where you don't even say a word or have to 371 00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:06,600 look at each other and you both just drop your hands at the same 372 00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:11,000 time. And I remember being in this 373 00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:14,880 leadership meeting, all of a sudden everyone around the 374 00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:17,600 table, or most people around the table just started sharing their 375 00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:22,120 stories and experiences of that. And I just felt like, oh wow, 376 00:22:22,120 --> 00:22:26,120 I'm home. Like I'm surrounded by this 377 00:22:26,120 --> 00:22:29,320 Quinness and people who've experienced what I've 378 00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:32,520 experienced. And that's been just really 379 00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:34,520 amazing, being around people like that every day. 380 00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:37,120 Absolutely. We've come a long way from the 381 00:22:37,120 --> 00:22:41,920 University of Manchester Student Union Bar Laura, and when I 382 00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:45,960 reflect on that I have to ask, what was the favourite gig you 383 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:49,400 saw while working the bar? I may or may not have been 384 00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:51,360 there. Oh my goodness me, that's such a 385 00:22:51,360 --> 00:22:53,000 good question. We did. 386 00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:54,800 We used to work on the bars together, didn't we? 387 00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:57,480 And do you remember we used to queue up in person to get our 388 00:22:57,480 --> 00:23:00,200 shifts down those stairs? It's like get a nap. 389 00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:04,680 I remember working in Academy One when Kylie Minogue was 390 00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:11,040 playing and you, I think at one point danced on the bar and 391 00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:15,520 handed her a glass of red wine. And that for me was just a 392 00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:18,080 massive highlight. I loved that. 393 00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:21,360 That actually wasn't me setting you up, but it's it. 394 00:23:21,360 --> 00:23:24,920 Sounds. Like to have someone else tell 395 00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:28,160 it because it's more believable. But yes, that was the night that 396 00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:32,360 I made the most tips ever, and looking back, I'm a little bit 397 00:23:32,360 --> 00:23:36,960 embarrassed that I handed her a plastic glass of red wine. 398 00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:39,800 I think Kylie's a bit above plastic, but nonetheless she's a 399 00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:53,560 trooper and she drank it anyway. I also have to shout out to your 400 00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:57,080 DJ career around that time, Andy, when we used to go to 401 00:23:57,080 --> 00:24:01,840 these queer alternative Knights at Legends in Manchester and 402 00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:06,920 Bollocks and yeah, you used to put DJ sets on and often would 403 00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:11,920 end the night by swinging on the rafters to an amazing tune. 404 00:24:12,120 --> 00:24:14,480 And then, you know, all of a sudden the lights had come on 405 00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:17,960 and we'd look like creatures and then go home. 406 00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:21,000 Yeah, I don't know if I can keep this bit in, but the song that 407 00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:24,960 soundtracks that time for me is Queen of the Night by Whitney 408 00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:29,120 Houston, which I'm informed that I played three times. 409 00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:34,760 You. Did you just loved it so much? 410 00:24:44,210 --> 00:24:48,290 You have chosen a track, an album and an artist for Tracks 411 00:24:48,290 --> 00:24:50,650 of Our Queers and we're going to kick off with your tracks, so 412 00:24:50,650 --> 00:24:52,810 please tell me what you picked and why. 413 00:24:52,930 --> 00:24:56,770 So my track is DISCO 2000 by Paul. 414 00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:15,280 And it's a track from 1995. And when I think of that song, I 415 00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:19,120 remember being a kid dancing around my living room through it 416 00:25:19,120 --> 00:25:21,680 with my family. I also remember going to see my 417 00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:24,480 dad on a weekend and him playing it in the car with the windows 418 00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:26,760 down. And I remember being young and 419 00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:29,520 thinking that the Millennium seemed like so far away. 420 00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:32,080 And, you know, let's all meet up in the year 2000. 421 00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:34,160 Won't it be strange when we're all fully grown? 422 00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:37,680 Funnily enough, I think Jarvis Cocker got a bamper on the song 423 00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:41,920 to to be played in 99 and 2000. So it wasn't affiliated on the 424 00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:44,400 radio with the Millennium, which is quite funny. 425 00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:46,800 So Robin Williams quickly took that place. 426 00:25:56,860 --> 00:26:00,580 But I do remember celebrating the Millennium in place called 427 00:26:00,580 --> 00:26:03,780 Rothy Merkus in Aviemore in Scotland with my family. 428 00:26:03,780 --> 00:26:07,220 And we used to go and stay in these very basic self catering 429 00:26:07,220 --> 00:26:11,840 cabins and they had this big party outside with fireworks and 430 00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:15,400 that was on. And so I remember actually 431 00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:17,480 dancing to that on the night of the Millennium. 432 00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:19,280 So yeah, it's like it's a really special song. 433 00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:24,320 I went to the pub couple of years ago at Castlefield Bowl in 434 00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:27,720 Manchester and I don't think I was the only one having a 435 00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:29,480 nostalgic moment when they played that. 436 00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:43,680 We talked a little bit earlier about your youth and your 437 00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:47,160 relationship with music when you were younger, and I know that 438 00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:50,440 you put a lot of thought into what this track was going to be 439 00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:53,200 like. What do you think about the 440 00:26:53,200 --> 00:27:00,000 Laura of this age? I remember listening to that 441 00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:03,360 song and feeling like it was very affiliated with my family. 442 00:27:03,360 --> 00:27:05,720 We had a lot of brick pop on in the house, but particularly when 443 00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:09,440 I'd go and stay with my dad, he'd listen to Blur, Deep Blue 444 00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:11,600 S, Pink Floyd, a lot of good tunes. 445 00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:14,360 And this feels like a bit of a soundtrack to my younger years 446 00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:18,480 because it wasn't just in 95, it did span that kind of period, 447 00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:22,520 which is why it's got such a like strong resonation with me. 448 00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:27,080 I also think Jarvis Cocker's just does some problematic 449 00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:31,120 things, but also some quite hilarious things as well. 450 00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:36,120 And you know, he's northern, he's from Sheffield, and so he 451 00:27:36,120 --> 00:27:39,880 kind of got that route as well. Is did he get his bum out to 452 00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:42,320 Michael Jackson? Yeah, I think he might have 453 00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:43,760 done. That's nice. 454 00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:47,840 And then when he was being interviewed by the media about 455 00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:52,080 it, he was drinking a small glass of red wine and smoking a 456 00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:54,920 cigarette. So it's just quite of the time, 457 00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:57,400 isn't it? Let's move on to your album. 458 00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:01,000 Which album did you pick? So my album had to be the Con by 459 00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:14,600 Tegan and Sarah. I've loved listening back to 460 00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:16,880 this album recently and you know what? 461 00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:20,400 I actually haven't listened to it for ages since we started 462 00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:21,800 talking about doing this podcast. 463 00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:23,880 And I've listened to it a few times. 464 00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:30,080 And there's a song on that in particular called 19, which is 465 00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:32,720 the most special song on that album for me. 466 00:28:33,120 --> 00:28:37,160 And the reason for that is so when I was going off to 467 00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:40,880 university, I bought an acoustic guitar the year before and I 468 00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:44,280 started playing that and then playing the guitar became very 469 00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:48,160 much kind of affiliated with, I think, you know, my identity. 470 00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:49,920 It was a good way to meet people. 471 00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:54,440 I remember Alex Parks on something like The X Factor 472 00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:56,360 playing guitar as. Well, Fame Academy. 473 00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:59,120 To me, you know you've got your Lucy Spraggins, so it wasn't 474 00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:00,680 just me. All of a sudden these people are 475 00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:04,120 popping up around me. We'll have some tea and toast. 476 00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:19,600 Alex Parks walked so Lucy Spraggan could run a. 100% I 477 00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:21,320 couldn't have said it better myself. 478 00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:23,720 And then I could hop, skip and jump to guitar. 479 00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:29,280 And I remember so meeting one of my best mates, Chloe at uni and 480 00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:32,560 quickly realising we both played guitar. 481 00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:36,440 And one of the first songs we played an open mic together was 482 00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:40,160 19 by Tegan and Sarah. And at the time I will have been 483 00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:42,880 19. And it was like mind blown, you 484 00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:44,440 know, this really powerful moment. 485 00:29:54,310 --> 00:29:58,870 And on this particular night that I'm recalling at this pub 486 00:29:58,870 --> 00:30:02,710 in Manchester, I have quite a funny experience looking back on 487 00:30:02,710 --> 00:30:05,470 it because at the time I remember thinking, you know, I 488 00:30:05,470 --> 00:30:08,590 found myself, I found my people, I found my queerness. 489 00:30:08,950 --> 00:30:13,240 But then when Chloe said something like we're about to 490 00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:16,280 play a song by Tegan and Sara, if you don't know where they 491 00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:18,480 are, they're two lesbians from Canada. 492 00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:21,840 Do you see any similarities? And I remember just like 493 00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:26,400 freezing for a second and thinking who's in the room, who 494 00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:28,400 might not know that I'm out, etcetera. 495 00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:31,640 So it's interesting because I thought about myself being very 496 00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:34,560 out of the closet at that time, but actually turns out I had one 497 00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:37,200 foot still in it. Well, what you just described, 498 00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:41,200 that feeling of, I don't know what emotion we'd call it, it's 499 00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:45,240 that kind of like you stop for a second and you think, whoa, I 500 00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:48,680 guess in your point experience there, you had no choice but to 501 00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:51,320 carry on. But you almost feel a bit like a 502 00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:54,120 deer in headlights. And there's a bit of shame, 503 00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:57,400 there's a bit of confidence, there's a bit of woe. 504 00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:01,000 Well, Tegan and Sara not only being, I guess so probably 10 505 00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:04,360 years older than me, so feeling like those people that you could 506 00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:07,280 aspire to, you know, the cool hair, the look, they looked a 507 00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:10,400 bit like Shane off the L Word, which was a really popular 508 00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:14,360 iconic lesbian TV show around that time. 509 00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:17,680 And first of all, being like, Oh my God, you know, you want to be 510 00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:19,760 like these people. These are actual role models. 511 00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:24,440 And a lot of their songs that they sing kind of hit home when 512 00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:26,160 you're at that age as well, because they're they're singing 513 00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:29,280 about kind of not any queer love, but a kind of hard hitting 514 00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:32,320 queer love, you know, like when you fancy someone for a few 515 00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:36,120 weeks and then you know, you don't end up being together, for 516 00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:38,240 example, and your heart's broken because you're young. 517 00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:41,800 And it but it was quite powerful seeing them being so open. 518 00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:45,960 And they also have a charity called the Tegan and Sara 519 00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:49,560 Foundation, which I think it's just amazing that they're using 520 00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:52,760 their platform over in the US when it's I imagine they're 521 00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:54,600 having more tough time than we are. 522 00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:57,240 And they have some brilliant programmes like the summer camps 523 00:31:57,240 --> 00:32:02,440 for Quiz, as well as really important support systems, like 524 00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:06,680 to get like a firm in healthcare in a safe, supportive 525 00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:09,280 environment. So yeah, I think all around they 526 00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:12,200 seem like good eggs. I'd like to go for a coffee with 527 00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:14,840 them and chat to them. Have you ever seen them live? 528 00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:17,760 I haven't, no. Let me know if you see that 529 00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:20,160 they're doing a tour. I don't know if you're familiar 530 00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:21,800 with it, but I've only just listened to it in the last few 531 00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:23,560 days. In 2017 they actually did a 532 00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:25,400 tribute. I guess it's album. 533 00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:28,040 I don't know. It was an anniversary album 534 00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:32,440 marking the 10 years of the con. So they got different artists, 535 00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:36,200 most of whom are actually queer, and they each took a different 536 00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:39,840 track from the con and did it. And on this album they had Muna 537 00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:45,440 Shura, Mickey Blanco, Kelly Lee Owens, Shamir, who's actually 538 00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:48,880 been a guest on tracks of our queers and icons like Cyndi 539 00:32:48,880 --> 00:33:00,720 Lauper. And I think what that speaks to 540 00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:05,240 is how much respect Tegan and Sarah have from other queer 541 00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:09,760 musicians, and certainly how formative they would have been 542 00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:14,120 influencing literally MUNA. There is a Direct Line from 543 00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:17,040 Tegan and Sarah to MUNA today, and I love that they've got that 544 00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:20,760 kind of like reverence and respect from other queer 545 00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:22,640 musicians. It's a stroke of genius. 546 00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:35,240 That was a lovely walk down memory lane. 547 00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:37,680 Thank you. And so we're up to your artists 548 00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:38,360 now. This. 549 00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:40,960 Was a really tough one. It's tough picking one person, 550 00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:43,560 isn't it? But again, I guess for me it's 551 00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:49,000 when I think about an artist, it's more than who they are for 552 00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:52,520 their music and their songs and what that means. 553 00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:56,760 For me, it's about the person and what they stand for as well 554 00:33:56,760 --> 00:34:00,000 and the kind of journey. So I've picked K Tempest. 555 00:34:11,199 --> 00:34:16,159 I think he's absolutely incredible as a role model for 556 00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:20,639 trans siblings, for queerness, for being a mental health 557 00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:24,000 advocate, for talking openly about neurodiversity. 558 00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:28,120 But seeing his journey that he's been on and being so kind of 559 00:34:28,159 --> 00:34:33,920 open and public about the the lows of, you know, transition, 560 00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:38,239 realising Butch Nurse and also how his music's changed over 561 00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:41,440 that time as well, I think has been really gorgeous to see. 562 00:34:52,199 --> 00:34:58,800 At Glastonbury last year, he ended his set with the song Know 563 00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:05,040 Yourself and then did a 5 minute kind of a Capella about being 564 00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:07,360 trans and then revealed his top surgery scars. 565 00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:10,480 And I think it was such a beautiful moment to watch. 566 00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:12,240 You should definitely watch it if you haven't. 567 00:35:12,720 --> 00:35:16,960 And I think at a time when, you know, we're just seeing 568 00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:20,960 negativity about trans people and it feels like we're fighting 569 00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:24,600 a battle, it's amazing to see people out there kind of taking 570 00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:26,720 up that space and being that role model. 571 00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:30,920 I think this person is an excellent person to choose and 572 00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:34,280 this is the first time that we've spoken about Kay Tempest 573 00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:37,200 on Tracks of Our Queers. I hope it's not the last, but 574 00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:41,360 since you shared your selection, I've been listening to so much 575 00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:45,400 of Kay's work and reading their poetry and writing and they 576 00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:47,680 really are a force of nature. Like there's nothing that they 577 00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:52,040 can't really do actually. And have this memory a long time 578 00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:56,960 ago, maybe like 2010, 2011, have actually seen them perform at, I 579 00:35:56,960 --> 00:35:59,720 think it was like Latitude festival or something, and being 580 00:35:59,720 --> 00:36:05,440 blown away by the ferociousness and fire in their performance, 581 00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:10,920 in their word plan, just exquisite control of the English 582 00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:14,680 language. And then years later, as we kind 583 00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:17,000 of witness a transition before our eyes. 584 00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:19,760 I have to say, I listened this morning. 585 00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:22,760 I really strongly recommend people check it out. 586 00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:25,600 There's an interview that Kay does with Annie Mac on Annie 587 00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:30,480 Mac's podcast Changes, and it was recorded only a couple of 588 00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:32,320 years ago. And they talk about all sorts of 589 00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:35,520 things. But it was in stark contrast to 590 00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:39,520 an interview I read the other day, which Kay gave years ago 591 00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:42,280 before they transitioned. And this could be for a variety 592 00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:43,840 of reasons, for sure, I acknowledge that. 593 00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:45,680 But the difference is night and day. 594 00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:51,840 This earlier interview was so much more filled with torment, 595 00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:56,360 and it felt like I was reading the words of someone who was 596 00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:59,280 torturing themselves or felt like they were being tortured. 597 00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:01,200 I know that sounds dramatic, but it really was. 598 00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:03,600 It was such an intense experience. 599 00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:06,000 And then years later, to hear them speak after they've 600 00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:09,760 transitioned and the euphoria and the joy that comes out of 601 00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:13,680 them, and even their articulation of, you know, it's 602 00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:16,760 not always been smooth sailing and there's still a journey 603 00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:19,320 ahead to go. But just you feel like you're 604 00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:23,160 suddenly seeing this fully realised person who's completely 605 00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:28,520 in tune with who they are. And no human being wouldn't bask 606 00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:32,560 in that warmth. You know, to see any human fully 607 00:37:32,720 --> 00:37:35,680 inhabit themselves is such a pleasure. 608 00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:39,920 It's so important to share those stories of queer joy because at 609 00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:42,880 the moment when we're hearing a lot about the kind of negativity 610 00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:46,040 and like we spoke earlier about needing to defend our rights, 611 00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:49,280 those spaces that actually were filled with, you know, 612 00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:52,400 storytelling and kind of queer hope and joy. 613 00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:55,520 At the moment, you know, we're talking about survival and 614 00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:57,520 rights. But you are right, There is so 615 00:37:57,520 --> 00:38:01,200 much joy in being queer, seeing kind of some of my friends 616 00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:05,760 transition and knowing that like gender euphoria exists, queer 617 00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:10,240 euphoria exists and talking about that, you know, happiness 618 00:38:10,240 --> 00:38:13,760 and like hope can be tools for activism in themselves. 619 00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:17,960 So it's super important. There's another podcast I listen 620 00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:20,720 to, I think it might be with Annie Mack and Greg James, and 621 00:38:20,720 --> 00:38:23,000 it's an interview with K Tempest. 622 00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:28,320 And K Tempest refers to the podcast you just referenced with 623 00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:33,400 Annie Mac Changes, and it was during the interim between those 624 00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:37,760 podcasts that K Tempest wrote the song Know Yourself. 625 00:38:48,620 --> 00:38:54,020 And K Tempest attributes Annie Mac to some of the lyrics. 626 00:38:54,500 --> 00:38:59,660 So they were in the car after a few weeks after filming Animac 627 00:38:59,660 --> 00:39:04,200 Changes and they remember the conversation with Annie talking 628 00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:06,640 about if they were going to speak to their younger self. 629 00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:10,360 They'd say thanks, they'd say peace and they'd say soon child, 630 00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:12,520 you're going to find release. And apparently Annie Max stopped 631 00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:15,160 them and was like, OK, they're amazing lyrics. 632 00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:20,200 And from then they've then become part of the conversation 633 00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:24,640 that know yourself is between Kay's child of themselves and 634 00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:27,640 their now self. And it's really amazing, isn't 635 00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:30,720 it, that dialogue. And I think that's something we 636 00:39:30,720 --> 00:39:32,840 can all relate to. You know, what would you tell 637 00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:34,920 your younger self if you could go back now? 638 00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:38,560 But yeah, so it's interesting that you mentioned that podcast. 639 00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:41,040 Definitely. It's a really magical listen and 640 00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:44,200 for many, many reasons. But just pulling at that thread 641 00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:45,960 a little bit more that you've just raised. 642 00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:51,160 I was in a session with a therapist the other day and we 643 00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:52,960 were talking about various things. 644 00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:55,560 And in this particular scene that we were discussing, what 645 00:39:55,560 --> 00:40:00,760 would I show as affirmation or support to my younger self to 646 00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:03,920 give them comfort in this particular scene that we were 647 00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:05,720 discussing? And at first I was like, oh, you 648 00:40:05,720 --> 00:40:08,120 know, everything's going to be OK. 649 00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:11,040 You'll get through this. And the therapist was like, no, 650 00:40:11,080 --> 00:40:14,280 you're just saying what you think I want to hear. 651 00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:18,680 Tell me what you would actually do to your younger self. 652 00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:23,800 To give them that comfort and reassurance and it really made 653 00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:26,560 me stop and think and I'd love to say I came up with something 654 00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:31,120 as fabulous as Kay, but actually what I said was I'd take you to 655 00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:33,200 the cinema and get your big bag of Maltesers. 656 00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:35,280 Andy, don't. I'm going to well up. 657 00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:40,560 I think it's really, really important that it's something 658 00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:42,520 that we think about, isn't it? Because a. 100%. 659 00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:49,160 We I've known you for coming up to half my life and talking 660 00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:53,160 about that moment where you were playing guitar in a pub, Tegan 661 00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:56,480 and Sarah, and you think that you're really, you've got it 662 00:40:56,480 --> 00:41:00,640 together and you're who you are and you're proud and and all of 663 00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:03,560 those things can be true, but you're still reminded that in 664 00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:05,880 many ways, we're still at the beginning of our journey and 665 00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:09,840 there's so many things that we continue to figure out. 666 00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:14,600 I'm just so proud of what you've accomplished so far in your life 667 00:41:14,720 --> 00:41:19,440 and it's a genuine an honour to not just be your friend today, 668 00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:23,400 but to have known you through so many queer evolutions and 669 00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:25,960 iterations of who you are and to have met you at a really 670 00:41:25,960 --> 00:41:29,280 formative time for both of us. And we, we live geographically 671 00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:32,880 so far apart, but I feel like we, we know how important it is 672 00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:37,000 to tap into our younger selves. I'm also really proud of the 673 00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:41,160 people that we are today in our mid 30s and and where we've got 674 00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:42,160 to. No. 675 00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:43,680 And I'm really proud of you as well. 676 00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:46,160 All the evolutions of you have been gorgeous to see. 677 00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:48,600 So yeah, we are living far apart, but I still feel like 678 00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:51,560 we're kind of islands in the sea, separated on the surface 679 00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:54,040 but connected in the deep, which is really important. 680 00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:58,280 But something else that you're touching on is the importance of 681 00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:02,360 friendship and community. And just to rewind back-to-back 682 00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:09,720 to Kate Tempest, he talks really openly about the beauty of being 683 00:42:09,720 --> 00:42:14,000 taken under the soft wing of the queer community and the trans 684 00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:17,080 community and not knowing that it's something he needed and 685 00:42:17,080 --> 00:42:19,280 actually it being something that he rejected. 686 00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:23,560 But he tells this really gorgeous story about being out 687 00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:30,040 in a queer bar and meeting someone with the kind of both 688 00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:34,760 coat and vest on and still having that internalised kind of 689 00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:36,880 homophobia against botchedness as well. 690 00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:44,120 And meeting a kind of elder, an elder Butch, and them saying to, 691 00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:47,960 you know, have you got friends that are queer? 692 00:42:48,120 --> 00:42:51,080 And he's like, no, no, you know, I don't really know anyone. 693 00:42:51,080 --> 00:42:55,440 I don't really need that. And this person says, meet me on 694 00:42:55,440 --> 00:42:58,360 this street tomorrow at this time. 695 00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:01,400 And he goes there in the morning. 696 00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:04,960 And this person that he only ever met these two times turns 697 00:43:04,960 --> 00:43:09,480 up with a photocopied, but it's called something like the Butch 698 00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:12,600 Butch Blues or something. It's like a really iconic book. 699 00:43:12,600 --> 00:43:15,200 But apparently then reading that on the bus and just bursting 700 00:43:15,200 --> 00:43:18,120 into tears. And that person, that gift that 701 00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:21,840 they gave to him and that showing up for someone as well 702 00:43:22,840 --> 00:43:27,000 completely changed his life. And from then on, I think lent 703 00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:30,480 into that community and felt the warmth of it. 704 00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:36,240 You shared a song with me. There's a paragraph about that 705 00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:40,320 walking straight in one of Kay's poems I've got I Saw this book 706 00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:44,080 being read Divisible by Itself and one by Kay Tempest and it's 707 00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:48,280 one of one of my favourite poems by him is Love Song for Queen, 708 00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:51,160 Studs, Butchers Daddy's Fags and All the Other Angels. 709 00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:55,040 And there's a paragraph that I'll just read out about The 710 00:43:55,040 --> 00:43:58,640 Walking with the the men. I just wanted to be on the 711 00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:00,880 winning team. I like the feeling of walking 712 00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:04,560 with strong men, straight and boring and small in their 713 00:44:04,560 --> 00:44:06,600 ambitions and mean to other people. 714 00:44:07,040 --> 00:44:09,440 I laughed along. I almost liked it. 715 00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:13,600 I see it now. They were not strong as if but 716 00:44:13,600 --> 00:44:15,960 you. You are the strongest ones among 717 00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:19,920 us, daring as you do to live holy as you are, while the rest 718 00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:23,400 of us go straight to pieces for what we can't bear to admit we 719 00:44:23,400 --> 00:44:27,040 carry. Wow, where to from there? 720 00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:29,680 All right, let me keep you for two more minutes. 721 00:44:30,560 --> 00:44:34,040 I'm going to give you a quick fire round of questions that I 722 00:44:34,040 --> 00:44:38,280 did not prepare you for. So let's go get ready for this 723 00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:40,600 quick fire. Laura Will Concerned a song that 724 00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:43,840 reminds you of an ex. Reeve, get to know you. 725 00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:56,720 A song that makes you feel powerful. 726 00:44:56,920 --> 00:44:59,960 Self esteem. I do this all the time. 727 00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:14,960 That's such a powerful song. And the last new song that you 728 00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:16,160 heard that you fell in love with. 729 00:45:16,520 --> 00:45:18,920 You know what, I need to go back to K Tempest because we didn't 730 00:45:18,920 --> 00:45:34,940 talk about Forever 25. K Tempest mix in George Michael. 731 00:45:35,100 --> 00:45:40,460 The Forever 25 is incredible and the song for me is all about 732 00:45:40,660 --> 00:45:46,200 freedom, all about identity and all about kind of being who you 733 00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:48,080 are. I have to say, there's something 734 00:45:48,280 --> 00:45:51,720 profoundly powerful about hearing K Tempest speak the 735 00:45:51,720 --> 00:45:55,400 words of another monumental queer icon. 736 00:45:55,640 --> 00:45:59,960 But hearing him say these words, Heaven knows I was just a young 737 00:45:59,960 --> 00:46:02,000 boy, Didn't know what I wanted to be. 738 00:46:02,680 --> 00:46:06,920 Love it Laura. How can people support the LGBT 739 00:46:06,920 --> 00:46:10,080 Foundation? If anyone is looking support in 740 00:46:10,080 --> 00:46:12,160 the UK, obviously we exist for that. 741 00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:15,040 If people around the globe are looking for training, we can 742 00:46:15,040 --> 00:46:16,920 offer that. If you'd like to sign up to our 743 00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:21,560 newsletter and find out what we're up to, you can go onto our 744 00:46:21,760 --> 00:46:25,520 website for that. And if you want to get us a 745 00:46:25,520 --> 00:46:30,080 coffee or support someone through therapy or become a kind 746 00:46:30,080 --> 00:46:32,960 of corporate partner and work with us in some kind of way, 747 00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:34,840 we're always looking to work with people. 748 00:46:35,920 --> 00:46:38,920 But I guess it's just all about showing up for people and being 749 00:46:38,920 --> 00:46:41,120 there for people. And we can all do more of that, 750 00:46:41,120 --> 00:46:42,440 can't we? We sure can. 751 00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:47,240 Laura Wilkinson, the person who to me will always be Lanks. 752 00:46:47,760 --> 00:46:50,560 You are queer and thank you very much for your tracks. 753 00:46:50,560 --> 00:46:53,360 Thank you for having me and yeah, enjoy the rest of the 754 00:46:53,360 --> 00:47:03,160 evening. That's a wrap on Season 6 of 755 00:47:03,160 --> 00:47:06,840 Tracks of Our Queers and what a pleasure to spend it with one of 756 00:47:06,840 --> 00:47:09,240 my best friends. You can find more information 757 00:47:09,240 --> 00:47:12,200 about the LGBT Foundation LinkedIn this episode Show 758 00:47:12,200 --> 00:47:14,360 notes. If you have a suggestion for 759 00:47:14,360 --> 00:47:17,480 someone fascinating that you know or know of who I could 760 00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:21,360 interview, send me an e-mail at tracksofourqueers@gmail.com. 761 00:47:21,840 --> 00:47:24,680 I'd love to spread the net a bit wider this year and chat to 762 00:47:24,680 --> 00:47:28,160 people who I might never have crossed paths with otherwise. 763 00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:32,120 This episode of Tracks of Our Queers was recorded and edited 764 00:47:32,120 --> 00:47:34,520 on the Garaga Land. See you next time.